The BMW UUC Digest Volume 3 : Issue 113 : "text" Format Messages in this Issue: Re: Tires for E46 Re: Tires for E46 Tires for E46 Re: Tires for E46 Re: Tires for E46 Re: Tires for E46 Re: Tires for E46 Re: Tires for E46 Re: Tires for E46 Re: Tires for E46 Re: Tires for E46 Re: Tires for E46 Re: Tires for E46 Re: Tires for E46
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 14:26:12 -0700 From: "Marco Romani" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: Tires for E46 Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cool - where do you get the info on R70 vs R85 etc? good stuff to know. Marco -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Gary Derian Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 1:48 PM To: Jamie Howton Cc: Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks; [email protected] Subject: Re: [UUC] Tires for E46 Yes they are. A 205/50 is measured on an R70 rim (a rim that is 70% of the tire width, which would be 5.65 inches) but a 225/45 is measured on an R85 rim (7.53 inches). Adjusting for mounting both on a 7 inch rim (1 inch rim width changes section width 0.4 inches), the 205 is 8.61 inches wide and the 225 is 8.65 inches wide. Close enough for me. Gary Derian > A 205/50 is the same width as a 225/45. How do you figure that? The first number (205 or 225) is the tire width in millimeters. They are almost the same sidewall height (50% of .205 is 102.5mm and 45% of 225 is 101.25mm) but they aren't the same width. Regards Jamie Howton 2000 M5 1995 M3 Hampshire, IL Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] __________________________________________________________________________ In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 18:08:56 -0400 From: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Marco Romani" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[email protected]> Subject: Re: Tires for E46 Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Um, I used to design tires. All current 50 series and taller tires are measured on an R70. All 45 and lower tires are measured on an R85. Way back when I proposed a graduated scale but by then tires down to 50 series were already measured on an R70. There is generally a 20 to 30mm jump when going from 50 to 45 series. In bigger tires, a 245/50 is the same as a 275/45. For 225 and smaller the jump is closer to 20mm. Gary Derian > Cool - where do you get the info on R70 vs R85 etc? > > good stuff to know. > > Marco ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 14:45:56 -0700 (PDT) From: kjk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Tires for E46 Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I had Bridgestone RE750's on my wife's 323iT and liked them quite a bit. Generally, I think a more round shoulder tire seems to wear better, at least on my M5. I also had a real bad experience with ES100's getting noisy just past 10k. Actually put me off Yokos generally (although their new "almost R" tire looks quite nice but spendy). A few friends have bought the Pilot Sport all seasons and have been satisfied with performance and wear vs. the PS2. I was always pretty satisfied with S03's and only stopped buying them because of the mileage I was driving and their non-stop price increases (from $183 each on my first set to $240 in 3 years. Must be all the research they had to do to try to make Schumi quick last year). No experience with the Goodyears but that tread pattern looks a lot like the ES100. Kevin Kelly __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 23:11:37 -0400 From: "Jason Kay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Tires for E46 Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Well, personally I am not fond of yokos... I had a set of AVS Sports on my Porsche that I broken in on the street... mixture of country roads and then highway followed by rest (as suggested). On the track they were greasy as hell when hot (to the point I came in on several different laps to check temps/ pressures), slick as 'snot' when cold, and down-right dangerous in the rain (can we say unlimited Hydroplane racer!), but wait, it gets better!... It was embaressing that *EVERYONE* including the N/A 944s just plain ran away from me in the wet... I was skittering, sliding, and locking up at a fraction of their speed (and don't get me started on the tramlining in truck ruts!) I trashed them with half their tread left... I was hoping they'd get better with age, but I was mistaken. Anyway, the stock '03 325ix w/ sport pack is 205/50R17... which has a rolling diameter of 25.07". 225/45R17s have a rolling diameter of 24.97" 245/40R17s roll @ 24.72" and 255/40R17s roll @ 25.03" ( **So will 255s even fit? and what about tramlining? **) Being an enginerd (Mech.Eng.typ), I created a spead sheet with all this in it if anyone wants a copy, lemme know... (oh, and PS2s come in all 3 sizes and I'm re-reading the Dec.'05 C&D tire test... thanks for reminding me about it! esp. good since a 325 was used (Ok, so its a few years newer and doesn't have the 4wd, but how close can a car-rag get to your actual ride?! :) -Jason '86 951 "Sparky" (why is there con't spark?) '70 240Z "Dusty" (last seen in daylight in 1980, awaiting restoration) '97 Contour "Bambi" (the meat tenderizer :) '03 325xi sport "Daisy" (and no, I didn't name her!) > I normally like the high-end Yokos, but I will say without question - ES100s > are unacceptable at any price... I just gave away a nearly-new set. They > don't handle all _that_ great, just typical of any cheap performance tire > (even the Kumho MX is stickier). > > They are the tire I was obliquely referring to as making so much noise as to > question the integrity of the wheel bearings. We've been seeing nearly > univeral customer comments backing this up, that after 5K miles the sound > level increases to a remarkable crescendo at 10K and beyond. > > Your own comments apparently back this up also! > > - Rob > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kazuto Okayasu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 2:13 PM > Subject: Re: [UUC] Tires for E46 > > > > At 09:58 AM 4/4/2006, Jason Kay wrote: > > > > Asking for opinions about tires is almost like asking about motor oil. :) > > > > Given your criteria (cost/handling vs. noise/ride), I'd recommend > > Yokohama AVS ES100. Cheap ($96 in stock size, $114 in 225/45, the > > other OE 17" size), very responsive, due to stiff sidewalls. Of all > > the tires friends (mostly E46 owners) and I've tried, these are > > second only to R-comps and few $$$ rubber for sharp turn-in response. > > Excellent life as well. They do tramline quite a bit, and they are > > VERY noisy as they wear, especially if the car has more than > > negligible negative camber. > > > > I went to a quieter tire (Falken ST115), but I really miss the > > performance of the Yokos. I'd consider going back, but I recently > > got a hold of a nearly-free set of Pilot Sport 2 which everyone I > > know raves about. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 16:37:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Ruiz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: UUC Digest <[email protected]> Subject: Re: Tires for E46 Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I had a set of pretty heavily worn ES100s on my E36 M3 when I bought it (unfortunately I was too excited when I bought the car and forgot to ask for a couple hundred bucks off the price to compensate for the need for some new rubber). Those tires had pretty stiff sidewalls, and tramlined like no other tire I've ever felt. I assumed that it was because they were so heavily worn. I hated them, and because of their sidewalls, they may have been partially to blame for my strut towers getting bent with my Bilsteins and H&R OE Sports. The tread on the ES100 and the GS-D3 is slightly similar, but in terms of performance, they are light years apart. The ES100 has a centered circumferential tread groove, whereas the GS-D3 has a solid bar in the center of the tire that helps push the water out towards the sides of the tire, where the angled tread sipes contribute to its amazingly high rated hydroplaning resistance and overall wet performance. This tire recently was voted by C&D to be their top wet performance (summer?) tire. If you read the tons of reviews on TireRack as well, you'll see how much people love this tire. When I had them on my E36 325, I honestly could not get them to slip like a normal tire would; they "chunked", it's a hard thing to describe. Instead of spinning on the asphalt in the water, they would just sort of feel like they hopped sideways instead of slide smoothly. I found that level of grip to be extremely reassuring in wet weather. In any case, I don't know what other people here think of the tire, but they are surely the next set of tires I will buy. Brian 95 M3 --- kjk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I had Bridgestone RE750's on my wife's 323iT and > liked > them quite a bit. Generally, I think a more round > shoulder tire seems to wear better, at least on my > M5. > I also had a real bad experience with ES100's > getting > noisy just past 10k. Actually put me off Yokos > generally (although their new "almost R" tire looks > quite nice but spendy). > > A few friends have bought the Pilot Sport all > seasons > and have been satisfied with performance and wear > vs. > the PS2. > > I was always pretty satisfied with S03's and only > stopped buying them because of the mileage I was > driving and their non-stop price increases (from > $183 > each on my first set to $240 in 3 years. Must be all > the research they had to do to try to make Schumi > quick last year). > > No experience with the Goodyears but that tread > pattern looks a lot like the ES100. > > Kevin Kelly > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > Search the > ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, > founder of the BMW CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and > home of the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 21:23:38 -0700 From: Bob Sutterfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: Tires for E46 Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Jason Kay wrote: > Being an enginerd (Mech.Eng.typ), I created a spead sheet with > all this in it if anyone wants a copy, lemme know... Being an engineering pointy-hair (thus needing someone else to do the actual work) I just compare the size options using <http://ejelta.com/tiresize>. -- Bob Sutterfield Unemployed Silicon Valley tech manager ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 09:06:09 -0400 From: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Bob Sutterfield" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[email protected]> Subject: Re: Tires for E46 Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> That's a nice calculator, but it only deals with diameter and we were talking about width. I also have a spreadsheet that calculates wheel width as a % of corrected tire width, and adjusts itself for 50 and higher or 45 and lower tires. Gary [also with pointy hair] Derian > > Being an engineering pointy-hair (thus needing someone else to do the > actual > work) I just compare the size options using <http://ejelta.com/tiresize>. > -- > Bob Sutterfield > Unemployed Silicon Valley tech manager ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 14:05:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Ruiz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: UUC Digest <[email protected]> Subject: Re: Tires for E46 Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Kazuto said: > I'd consider going back, > but I recently got a hold of a nearly-free set of > Pilot Sport 2 which everyone I know raves about. I don't. I hate the things. Have just over 10K on mine, and they are wearing exceptionally well, but I'm not fascinated by their performance. Perhaps when I got them they were a bit old already and suffered in terms of performance, but I don't think 6 or 8 months of age would cause them to degrade enough not to fully realize the same potential that everyone so enthusiastically proclaims. I prefered the set of GS-D3s I had on my old 325. Man, those were some GOOD tires. Brian 95 M3 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 15:33:25 -0500 From: "Jamie Howton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: "Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [email protected] Subject: Re: Tires for E46 Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > A 205/50 is the same width as a 225/45. How do you figure that? The first number (205 or 225) is the tire width in millimeters. They are almost the same sidewall height (50% of .205 is 102.5mm and 45% of 225 is 101.25mm) but they aren't the same width. Regards Jamie Howton 2000 M5 1995 M3 Hampshire, IL ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 16:37:34 -0500 From: "Jamie Howton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: Tires for E46 Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Yes they are. A 205/50 is measured on an R70 rim (a rim that is 70% of the > tire width, which would be 5.65 inches) but a 225/45 is measured on an R85 > rim (7.53 inches). Adjusting for mounting both on a 7 inch rim (1 inch rim > width changes section width 0.4 inches), the 205 is 8.61 inches wide and the > 225 is 8.65 inches wide. Close enough for me. Well, that's a new one on me thanks for setting me straight. So it sounds like you are saying that the tire width in mm (205/225) means very little because the actual tire width changes based upon what size rim it is mounted on and there are some sort of standards specifying which rim width each tire width should be measured on. -- Jamie Howton 2000 M5 1995 M3 Hampshire, IL ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 18:09:31 -0400 From: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Jamie Howton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: Tires for E46 Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> It still matters, but one also has to consider the aspect ratio. Gary Derian > Yes they are. A 205/50 is measured on an R70 rim (a rim that is 70% of > the > tire width, which would be 5.65 inches) but a 225/45 is measured on an R85 > rim (7.53 inches). Adjusting for mounting both on a 7 inch rim (1 inch > rim > width changes section width 0.4 inches), the 205 is 8.61 inches wide and > the > 225 is 8.65 inches wide. Close enough for me. Well, that's a new one on me thanks for setting me straight. So it sounds like you are saying that the tire width in mm (205/225) means very little because the actual tire width changes based upon what size rim it is mounted on and there are some sort of standards specifying which rim width each tire width should be measured on. -- Jamie Howton 2000 M5 1995 M3 Hampshire, IL ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 18:09:23 -0400 From: "Michael Lawrence" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: Tires for E46 Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:bmwuucdigest- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kazuto Okayasu > Asking for opinions about tires is almost like asking about motor oil. :) > > Given your criteria (cost/handling vs. noise/ride), I'd recommend > Yokohama AVS ES100. Cheap ($96 in stock size, $114 in 225/45, the > other OE 17" size), very responsive, due to stiff sidewalls. Of all > the tires friends (mostly E46 owners) and I've tried, these are > second only to R-comps Well since you said tire opinions are like motor oil, heres mine. ES100's have been the absolute WORST tire I have ever tried. And we are talking 10,000's of miles on track, racing and instructing. It actually scares me to think of the number of tires I have used so far. I don't care how you perceive the ES100, it is no where close to a R compound tire. I have them on my 635, tried them on a E39 528i, 92 M5 and a couple E36 M3s. I had a student in a E36 M3 and they were absolute garbage on the track. Wet traction is about equal to the General M&S off road tires on my 4x4 pick up truck and I don't think the truck tires hydroplane as bad. Dry traction and braking are the worst of any performance tire I have used to date. I could go on and on but I think it is clear I DON'T think much of the tire. As most opinions go, it is what it is. The ES100's are a cheap tire and perform even worse than expected of a cheap tire. During the first drive after installing them on my 635, I actually thought they had reinstalled the TRX tires Mike ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 18:16:06 -0500 From: "John Bunda" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: Tires for E46 Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > ES100's have been the absolute WORST tire I have ever tried. And we are > talking 10,000's of miles on track, racing and instructing. I would concur, I am currently running ES100s on my E30 M3 (not many choices in 225/45-16 these days) and I will not buy them again. They are way too greasy (especially when cold), and while they have a nice gradual breakaway, it comes on suprisingly quickly. It feels as if they are rolling over, too much sidewall flex? That would go along with the numb turn-in. To be fair, I've not had hydroplaning problems - I only haveabout 5k miles on them (still reasonably quiet), but just the dry grip situation is simply unacceptable. And this is just for street driving! I can't imagine trying to drive these things on the track. I am sure once they start making noise and treadwear starts compromising wet performance (such as it is), I will be replacing them, regardless of mileage. John ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 05:52:23 -0700 (PDT) From: P Kroon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Kazuto Okayasu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [email protected] Subject: Re: Tires for E46 Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I'll throw in my vote for the Yokohama AVS ES100. I put these on my wife's G35 and was VERY impressed by their responsiveness. They also seemt be lasting quite well (and were fairly cheap). -Paul 95 M3 96 328i 03 G35 98 Panoz AIV --- Kazuto Okayasu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > At 09:58 AM 4/4/2006, Jason Kay wrote: > > Asking for opinions about tires is almost like > asking about motor oil. :) > > Given your criteria (cost/handling vs. noise/ride), > I'd recommend > Yokohama AVS ES100. Cheap ($96 in stock size, $114 > in 225/45, the > other OE 17" size), very responsive, due to stiff > sidewalls. Of all > the tires friends (mostly E46 owners) and I've > tried, these are > second only to R-comps and few $$$ rubber for sharp > turn-in response. > Excellent life as well. They do tramline quite a > bit, and they are > VERY noisy as they wear, especially if the car has > more than > negligible negative camber. > > I went to a quieter tire (Falken ST115), but I > really miss the > performance of the Yokos. I'd consider going back, > but I recently > got a hold of a nearly-free set of Pilot Sport 2 > which everyone I > know raves about. > > >All, > > > >I am in need of summer tires for the E46 (2003 > 325xi w/sport > >package). I have dedicated winter tires, and the > car is not > >tracked, so I am looking at summer-only 205/50R17s > for the street... > > > >I have run Michilen Pilot Sports for a few seasons > on the Porsche > >and like them (but at $179@ / tirerack for the BMW, > they're kinda pricy) > > > >So, I am wondering if people have other suggestions > they really > >like... I also am not wed to the 205s if 225s are > better... > >Ride or noise is not super critical, good handling > is... :) > > > >Suggestions will be welcome > > > >TIA > > > >-Jason > >'86 951 "Sparky" > >'70 240Z "Dusty" > >'97 Contour "Bambi" > >'03 325xi sport "Daisy" > > > >Search the > ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > > > > >__________________________________________________________________________ > >In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, > founder of the BMW CCA. > > > >UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and > home of the Ultimate > >Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > >908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com > > Kazuto Okayasu Manager, Desktop Support Services > Administrative Computing Services, University of > California, Irvine > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Search the > ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, > founder of the BMW CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and > home of the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? 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