The BMW UUC Digest Volume 3 : Issue 56 : "text" Format Messages in this Issue: Re: 528e Purchase Re: <E36> Thermostat Re: <E36> Thermostat Dex-Cool was/Re: <E36> Thermostat Re: Dex-Cool was/Re: <E36> Thermostat Re: Dex-Cool was/Re: <E36> Thermostat Re: 528e Purchase Re: 528e Purchase Re: 528e Purchase Re: 528e Purchase Re: 528e Purchase Re: <E36> Water pump Re: <E36> Water pump Re: <E36> Water pump
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 14:43:05 -0600 From: Clarence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Ryan Simmons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [email protected] Subject: Re: 528e Purchase Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I've been following this thread primarily b/c I still miss the 'old shoe,' an '83 528e that we gave away w/about 280k miles. We bought it w/about 180k miles and used 10W-40 all year round in Wisconsin. The PO had used a local quick change place do irregular oil changes with Pennzoil, an oil I avoid like the plague. The one and only time it was put into one of our cars ('69 Ambassador), my wife commented that the engine sounded like a sewing machine. That oil was replaced a few weeks later. So I agree w/Scott; get the right oil in there first. But Scott's response also reminded me of something a mechanic told me this past summer about the M20 engine. That is, if the oil pump is weak, the top end can starve on oil, resulting in accelerated wear. Although I get the impression that the noise in this instance is quite minimal, I would consider doing an oil pressure test at some point. Clarence West Bend, WI [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Ryan, the owner's manual has a chart showing what weight of oil should be > used, based on the ambient air temperature. 10W-30 is only appropriate for > the coldest climates. I don't recall you saying where you're located. If > you're in Minnesota or some other such frozen wasteland, 10W-30 is probaby > appropriate for winter use. Just switching to an oil with a higher > viscosity range might quiet the lifters. > > Here in the San Francisco Bay Area (Mount Diable foothills, East Bay) I use > 15W-50 synthetic year round in our two M20 motors. If I were running dino > juice, I'd go with 10W-40 in the winter and 20W-50 in the summer. We see a > few 30 deg f nights in the winter, usually higher 30s, and we can get up to > 100 deg f in the summer. > > Don't jump to any conclusions about valve noise until you try the correct > weight oil for your area. I wouldn't say that the oil was "poor", just > that it was the wrong weight. Yes, using oil that is not the correct > weight can result in increased wear. Usually valve train wear in the M20 > results in adjuster eccentrics that can no longer adjust the valves to the > correct gap. > > Scott Miller > GGC BMW CCA > > > > "Ryan Simmons" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > .edu> To > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > 02/02/2006 05:13 cc > PM [email protected], > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject > Re: 528e Purchase > > > > > > > > > I just got off the phone with the mechanic who diagnosed the problem and > he said the same thing about the injectors. Timing belt, waterpump, motor > mounts, window seals and many other things have been replaced in the last > two months, and they gave me the reciepts to prove it. The sad thing is, > they have been taking the car to a service station to have the oil > changed, one of the real bad ones too. The records indicate that they > have been running 10/30, but I use 10/40 in my 325e. I think I will > switch it since it is about equal mileage (210,000). Perhaps poor oil > could have caused some wear in the head??? > Thanks, > Ryan- > > <snip> > >>If it is actually valves and not injectors, rocker removal >>does >>require the head to be removed. At that point you may as well go for a >>whole valve job, IMHO. But you might be surprised at how long the > > engine > >>will run making noises like that. What weight of oil is in the engine? > > <snip> > >>HTH, >> >>Scott Miller >>GGC BMW CCA >> >> >>>Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 15:54:52 -0800 (PST) >>>From: "Ryan Simmons" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>To: [email protected] >>>Subject: 528e Purchase >>>Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> >>>Today I purchased another BMW today. An 87 528e...nothing special. >>>One question I have was with regards to a noise in the head. The car is >>>mechanically sound and has been maintained by a credible mechanic whom I >>>know, but not real well. The noise sounds like the valves need >>>adjustment, but the service records indicate they have been adjusted. >>>The >>>mechanic who adjusted them made a small side note on the invoice that the >>>noise was possibly the rocker pads or rocker bushings. He didn't express >>>any concern to the previous owners about needing to have it fixed right >>>away. My question is if and when I decide to replace this or at least >>>look into it, does the head have to be removed? And, is this a serious >>>problem, or just an annoying one (tick tick tick tick) that will get >>>progressively worse? I am thinking it will only really affect smooth >>>idle >>>and running, but I am unsure. Also, the ticking noise is very faint. >>>Sounds like a Toyota. >>>Thanks in advance, >>>Ryan- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 12:53:34 -0800 (PST) From: Richard Dorffer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Tammer Farid <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [email protected] Subject: Re: <E36> Thermostat Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Dealer price went up ~2 years ago quite significantly, the list price went to $24-$26 per gallon (matrix is something silly like $30). Just recently, it went down by $1-$2 which is the first price reduction they have had. Dealer oil also has gone up significantly in the past couple years, it used to be a bargain for the 5W30, not any more. Later, Rich - bought a case of coolant when I was able to nab it around $7/gallon a couple years ago... --- Tammer Farid <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > How long has it been that way? Perhaps it went up across > the board (I bought several gallons 2 yrs ago at a dealer > in Baltimore ... dont' recall if it was Russel or Towson), > or maybe they were just selling it at a loss for some > promo. > > <shrug> Oh well. > -tammer <--still has 2 gallons left ... > > --- KMS- Brett Anderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Then I guess we're a rip off too, at $22/gallon in our > > shop. > > > > Tammer, I'll take 200 gallons at $11/gallon. I'll even > > drive down and > > pick it up. > > > > Given that it costs a BMW dealer is almost $14/gallon and > > all..... > > > > BMW coolant is one of our lowest profit part numbers. > > > > Brett Anderson > > KMS ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 16:42:10 -0500 From: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: <E36> Thermostat Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Heh, I bought one of those cases also. I also used to use the BMW oil in the M50, but not the S38. Gary Derian > Dealer price went up ~2 years ago quite significantly, the list price went > to $24-$26 per gallon > (matrix is something silly like $30). Just recently, it went down by > $1-$2 which is the first > price reduction they have had. > > Dealer oil also has gone up significantly in the past couple years, it > used to be a bargain for > the 5W30, not any more. > > Later, > > Rich - bought a case of coolant when I was able to nab it around $7/gallon > a couple years ago... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 13:00:23 -0800 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: UUC Digest <[email protected]> Subject: Dex-Cool was/Re: <E36> Thermostat Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> What if I didn't use BMW coolant? I passed on the $22/gallon at "the dealer formerly known as Allison" BMW in Mountain View a few months ago, using Prestone $8.99 Dex Cool approved from the Kragen next door instead. To quote the Talking Heads, 'and you may say to yourself, my god, what have I done'? Barry '97 //M3, cast bronze impeller water pump. Adam Lazur wrote: >KMS- Brett Anderson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) said: > > >>Then I guess we're a rip off too, at $22/gallon in our shop. >> >> > >More coolant pricing data: I paid $22/gallon (minus 10% bmwcca discount) >at BMW of Mountain View this morning. > >I drank enough of the "only use bmw coolant" koolaid while researching >to be prepared to pay around that price. > > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 16:39:00 -0500 From: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[email protected]> Subject: Re: Dex-Cool was/Re: <E36> Thermostat Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> DexCool is OK but don't try and use it for 5 years. The good thing about it is a low pH. The bad thing is it has less protection of the water pump from cavitation. Prestone G05 is very good and available at most auto parts stores. It has low pH and is the proper low silicate whatever as the BMW coolant. It is the Daimler-Chrysler spec which is good enough for me. Gary Derian > What if I didn't use BMW coolant? > I passed on the $22/gallon at "the dealer formerly known as Allison" > BMW in Mountain View a few months ago, using Prestone $8.99 Dex Cool > approved from the Kragen next door instead. > To quote the Talking Heads, 'and you may say to yourself, my god, what > have I done'? > Barry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 21:06:46 -0500 From: KMS- Brett Anderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: UUC Digest <[email protected]> Subject: Re: Dex-Cool was/Re: <E36> Thermostat Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> There's probably nothing wrong with even using the $2.50/gallon crap that you see around occasionally, as long as you change it often enough. Our issue is purely a warranty one. No one can come back to us and say "your coolant screwed up my engine 3 years later". They can't say it because the "your coolant" is "BMW's coolant" and they are driving a BMW. Same reason we continue to use the "BMW" brand engine oil, even though it's no longer the cheapest synthetic on the market. And yes, we use the ridiculous Castrol TWS 10W60 for the late S engines too. Brett Anderson KMS [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > What if I didn't use BMW coolant? > I passed on the $22/gallon at "the dealer formerly known as Allison" > BMW in Mountain View a few months ago, using Prestone $8.99 Dex Cool > approved from the Kragen next door instead. > To quote the Talking Heads, 'and you may say to yourself, my god, what > have I done'? > Barry > '97 //M3, cast bronze impeller water pump. > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 15:17:01 -0800 (PST) From: "Ryan Simmons" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: "Ryan Simmons" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [email protected] Subject: Re: 528e Purchase Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Scott, I am from Oregon and use 10/40 in the winter and 20/50 in the summer in my 325e, which has about 207,000 miles. The oil pressure gauge I have helps determine what viscosity to use. I will perhaps do the same on the new 528e, but at any rate I want to get the 10/30 out as soon as possible. Who makes 15/50? Is that a diesel grade oil? Ryan- > Ryan, the owner's manual has a chart showing what weight of oil should be > used, based on the ambient air temperature. 10W-30 is only appropriate > for > the coldest climates. I don't recall you saying where you're located. > If > you're in Minnesota or some other such frozen wasteland, 10W-30 is probaby > appropriate for winter use. Just switching to an oil with a higher > viscosity range might quiet the lifters. > > Here in the San Francisco Bay Area (Mount Diable foothills, East Bay) I > use > 15W-50 synthetic year round in our two M20 motors. If I were running dino > juice, I'd go with 10W-40 in the winter and 20W-50 in the summer. We see > a > few 30 deg f nights in the winter, usually higher 30s, and we can get up > to > 100 deg f in the summer. > > Don't jump to any conclusions about valve noise until you try the correct > weight oil for your area. I wouldn't say that the oil was "poor", just > that it was the wrong weight. Yes, using oil that is not the correct > weight can result in increased wear. Usually valve train wear in the M20 > results in adjuster eccentrics that can no longer adjust the valves to the > correct gap. > > Scott Miller > GGC BMW CCA > > > > "Ryan Simmons" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > .edu> To > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > 02/02/2006 05:13 cc > PM [email protected], > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject > Re: 528e Purchase > > > > > > > > > I just got off the phone with the mechanic who diagnosed the problem and > he said the same thing about the injectors. Timing belt, waterpump, motor > mounts, window seals and many other things have been replaced in the last > two months, and they gave me the reciepts to prove it. The sad thing is, > they have been taking the car to a service station to have the oil > changed, one of the real bad ones too. The records indicate that they > have been running 10/30, but I use 10/40 in my 325e. I think I will > switch it since it is about equal mileage (210,000). Perhaps poor oil > could have caused some wear in the head??? > Thanks, > Ryan- > > <snip> >>If it is actually valves and not injectors, rocker removal >> does >> require the head to be removed. At that point you may as well go for a >> whole valve job, IMHO. But you might be surprised at how long the > engine >> will run making noises like that. What weight of oil is in the engine? > <snip> >> >> HTH, >> >> Scott Miller >> GGC BMW CCA >> >>>Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 15:54:52 -0800 (PST) >>>From: "Ryan Simmons" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>To: [email protected] >>>Subject: 528e Purchase >>>Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> >>>Today I purchased another BMW today. An 87 528e...nothing special. >>>One question I have was with regards to a noise in the head. The car is >>>mechanically sound and has been maintained by a credible mechanic whom I >>>know, but not real well. The noise sounds like the valves need >>>adjustment, but the service records indicate they have been adjusted. >>> The >>>mechanic who adjusted them made a small side note on the invoice that >>> the >>>noise was possibly the rocker pads or rocker bushings. He didn't >>> express >>>any concern to the previous owners about needing to have it fixed right >>>away. My question is if and when I decide to replace this or at least >>>look into it, does the head have to be removed? And, is this a serious >>>problem, or just an annoying one (tick tick tick tick) that will get >>>progressively worse? I am thinking it will only really affect smooth >>> idle >>>and running, but I am unsure. Also, the ticking noise is very faint. >>>Sounds like a Toyota. >>>Thanks in advance, >>>Ryan- > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 15:52:38 -0800 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Ryan Simmons" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: 528e Purchase Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Mobil 1 synthetic. It is for gas engines. Scott "Ryan Simmons" <[EMAIL PROTECTED] .edu> To [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/03/2006 03:17 cc PM "Ryan Simmons" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [email protected] Subject Re: 528e Purchase Scott, <snip> >Who makes 15/50? Is that a diesel grade oil? >Ryan- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 17:17:27 -0800 From: "Paul M. Moriarty" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: 528e Purchase Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > Mobil 1 synthetic. It is for gas engines. > My experience with synthetic on an older engine (S38) is that I went through a lot of it. I couldn't see leaks on the ground, per se, but it was going somewhere. Switching back to dino cured the consumption problem. - Paul - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 18:38:56 -0800 From: test <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Paul M. Moriarty" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: 528e Purchase Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Paul, I use Redline 20/50 synthetic in my S38 with 110k miles and get 3,000 mi. per quart. But I have used only synthetic in my engines since 1974 and don't have a comparison. Michael E28 M5 E36 325is On Feb 3, 2006, at 5:17 PM, Paul M. Moriarty wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: >> Mobil 1 synthetic. It is for gas engines. >> > > My experience with synthetic on an older engine (S38) is that I went > through > a lot of it. I couldn't see leaks on the ground, per se, but it was > going > somewhere. Switching back to dino cured the consumption problem. > > - Paul - > Search the > ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > > _______________________________________________________________________ > ___ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW > CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 16:33:24 -0800 From: Bob Sutterfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: 528e Purchase Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Keywords: BMW "They all do that." Seriously. You could fiddle with the lash to make it a little quieter if you like. Or you might be hearing the injectors, they sound very similar and they're nearby. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 13:20:19 -0600 From: Jamie Howton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: <E36> Water pump Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> On 2/3/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I ordered and rcv'd the Graf water pump. It has a brazed impeller. Is this > an issue? Does anyone have any history with this type? I haven't had good > luck with brazed parts in hot coolant. Most Brazing alloys melt above 1200 degrees F, that's a fair bit hotter than your cooling system is ever likely to see unless the car is on fire ;-). -- Jamie Howton 2000 M5 1995 M3 Hampshire, IL ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 21:28:21 -0500 From: KMS- Brett Anderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: uuc Digest <[email protected]> Subject: Re: <E36> Water pump Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> The M50 pumps were only brazed for a couple of years. 97-99 perhaps. Then they went back to a composite material. A better version of the original I hope. I haven't seen one fail. We did pull an original pump from a 96 328 today. 65K miles or so. Nice big crack through the impeller. Another bullet dodged. Brett Anderson KMS Gary Derian wrote: > Factory metal impeller M50 pumps are brazed. At least its not forged. > Gary Derian > >> >> I ordered and rcv'd the Graf water pump. It has a brazed impeller. Is >> this >> an issue? Does anyone have any history with this type? I haven't had good >> luck with brazed parts in hot coolant. >> >> Being an old lady on this water pump thing, >> Kevin >> > > Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 21:48:09 -0800 (PST) From: "Kazuto Okayasu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "uuc Digest" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: <E36> Water pump Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > The M50 pumps were only brazed for a couple of years. 97-99 perhaps. > Then they went back to a composite material. A better version of the > original I hope. I haven't seen one fail. > > We did pull an original pump from a 96 328 today. 65K miles or so. > Nice big crack through the impeller. Another bullet dodged. > > Brett Anderson > KMS > > A friend of mine changed the water pump last year in his 00 E46 with a M52tu. The factory one that came out had a metal impeller. The new replacement was composite. I also haven't heard much about the composite thermostat housing failing on M52tu or M54s. I guess that material has been improved as well. And I hope E46 radiators fare better than E36/E39 ones. -- Kazuto Okayasu Administrative Computing Services University of California, Irvine ------------------------------ End of [bmwuucdigest] digest(14 messages) **********
