Right, but that's what communism asks you to do in effect. Marx never used the word saintly or giving your life to the Cause, but that emphasis on others rather than self no doubt prompted Ayn Rand's (she was russian, presumably a victim of oppressive communist rule) reactionary paean to the virtues of self-esteen and selfishness.
Roger Clough, [email protected] Hi Craig Weinberg 8/31/2012 Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him so that everything could function." ----- Receiving the following content ----- From: Craig Weinberg Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-08-31, 09:03:05 Subject: Re: Marxism and the pursuit of money, sex and power On Friday, August 31, 2012 8:55:08 AM UTC-4, rclough wrote: Hi Craig Weinberg It's a non-brainer. The Marxist model of man and his government as being saintly and always thinking of the good of the whole flies in the face of reality. Here in the real world, man goes out each day in his basic search for money, sex, and power. Maybe you are more familiar with Marx than I am, but my impression was that his view was not about men being saintly at all. To the contrary, it seems to be all about permanent class struggle and materialism - "means of production" and all that. He was all about the real world search for money, sex, and power. What Marx said about Capitalism may not have been wrong at all, but what he proposed as a solution didn't seem to be a lasting solution. It isn't often that ideas get half of the world to overthrow their leaders, so I would guess that they must have some pretty compelling reasoning to them and not Pollyanna tropes about man being saintly. Craig Roger Clough, [email protected] 8/31/2012 Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him so that everything could function." ----- Receiving the following content ----- From: Craig Weinberg Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-08-31, 08:28:11 Subject: Re: No Chinese Room Necessary On Friday, August 31, 2012 4:14:37 AM UTC-4, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2012/8/31 Craig Weinberg <[email protected]> On Thursday, August 30, 2012 6:55:35 PM UTC-4, Stephen Paul King wrote: On 8/30/2012 6:35 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Thursday, August 30, 2012 6:16:14 PM UTC-4, Stephen Paul King wrote: Hi Craig, Umm, ever hear of the concept of "Heaven"? It sounds very much like a "a future society with a perfect anything or that morals were unnecessary". Sure, but when does the Left Wing ever talk about Heaven? Craig Hi Craig, Umm, the Marxists have an analogue... " classless, moneyless, and stateless social order structured upon common ownership of the means of production, as well as a social, political and economic ideology that aims at the establishment of this social order". When does the Left Wing ever talk about Marxism? Does Dennis Kucinich talk about a stateless social order? Even self described socialists like Bernie Sanders or activists like Michael Moore don't say "we must get rid of money and class!". All I have ever heard from progressives is "We should pay teachers more and useless businessmen less." and "We should stop paying private contractors so much to imprison more and more people on meaningless drug charges". I have hung out with many anarchists, feminists, hippies, and rabid left wing ideologues socially throughout my life and have never - ever - heard anyone mention communism or Marxism in any kind of political context at all. Most of what I know about Marxism has come from Libertarians and Republicans holding up its ghost in effigy. Well you're not living in the right country then... And an anarchist who would not talk about about a classless goal... well cannot be an "anarchist" which means "without hierarchy/authority" not without rules, that is anomie. What does where I live have to do with anything? Are you saying that only people who want to see the US paved over and sold to WalMart are real Americans? When I say that people I have known are anarchists I mean that they have anarchic sympathies - not that they advocate a permanent realization of total anarchy. Craig Quentin Craig -- Onward! Stephen http://webpages.charter.net/stephenk1/Outlaw/Outlaw.html -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/everything-list/-/-We2MSfPkrkJ. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/everything-list/-/uL-e1u4uJA8J. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/everything-list/-/P90aQoWH3vYJ. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
