On 11/24/2013 1:32 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:

On 24 Nov 2013, at 10:06, LizR wrote:

To be exact it's the belief that no gods exist, i.e. that "theism" is wrong. But otherwise it does seem to echo Aristotle and Plato, at least as far as I understand them.

Atheism is also the belief in NO afterlife, which is close to not making much sense to me (even without comp). This is well illustrated by the french philosophers like La Mettrie and Sade, defending the right to do what you want in your life (including torturing children and women), as you have only one life to profit on. It is part of the origin of the political materialism, implemented in both communism and capitalism, and indeed both are aggressive with any form of spiritualism, and confuse a rich life with a life of rich.

The big conceptual difference between Aristotle and Plato is that in Aristotle there is a belief in a primitive material universe, where for Plato, the material universe is a shadow (an emanation, a border, a reflection, a projection,...) of something else (the one, God, the universal dream, etc.).

It is the opposition between naturalism (materialism, physicalism), and the other conceptions of reality (which can still be rational, like with the antic greeks and Indians).

Atheists and Christians are alike. They have the same conception of the creator (the first to deny it, the second to believe in it), and the same conception of the creation (a material universe).

The real "religious" debate is about the primitive or not existence of the physical reality. Should we search, or not, for a reason behind the physical reality?

That isn't a problem at all. It's just like the arguments about the existence of god; first you have to define what you mean by "god" before you can answer whether "god exists" or not. So what is the definition of "physical reality"? It seems to me that "physical" only adds the concept of shared/public. But Plato also intended his reality to be shared and public.


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