2013/11/24 Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> > > On 24 Nov 2013, at 10:06, LizR wrote: > > To be exact it's the belief that no gods exist, i.e. that "theism" is > wrong. But otherwise it does seem to echo Aristotle and Plato, at least as > far as I understand them. > > > > Atheism is also the belief in NO afterlife, which is close to not making > much sense to me (even without comp). This is well illustrated by the > french philosophers like La Mettrie and Sade, defending the right to do > what you want in your life (including torturing children and women), as you > have only one life to profit on. It is part of the origin of the political > materialism, implemented in both communism and capitalism, and indeed both > are aggressive with any form of spiritualism, and confuse a rich life with > a life of rich. >
Both branches of nihilistic economicism , yes > > The big conceptual difference between Aristotle and Plato is that in > Aristotle there is a belief in a primitive material universe, where for > Plato, the material universe is a shadow (an emanation, a border, a > reflection, a projection,...) of something else (the one, God, the > universal dream, etc.). > Interesting declaration of Gnosticism. But that platonic idea of the world does is not match very well with what plato says in the Timaeus. Allthough the gnosticists have drawn a lot from Plato. In the other way, the conception of Aristotle was the traditional idea of the greeks. the greek goods, by the way, where intramundane, not beyond-material, that is sobrenatural, authough "almost" inmortals. So you can accuse the ancient greeks of being aristotelians. > > It is the opposition between naturalism (materialism, physicalism), and > the other conceptions of reality (which can still be rational, like with > the antic greeks and Indians). > > Atheists and Christians are alike. They have the same conception of the > creator (the first to deny it, the second to believe in it), and the same > conception of the creation (a material universe). > > The real "religious" debate is about the primitive or not existence of the > physical reality. > Not only that. Between primitive and not existence, theere are a lot of possiblities > Should we search, or not, for a reason behind the physical reality? > We have no option once our personal survival problems are solved and we have to plan beyond tomorrow. We have teleological minds that need to discover a course of history to follow. Otherwise, probably like in any social organism, we will be victims of out own mechanism of sanity-checking and the social apoptosis will prescribe an useful suicide to our disoriented body, in order to avoid being a burden for the other gene-vehicles of the society. That´s why many disoriented people, specially young ones, risk their lifes in extreme sports (or terrorism): it is the only way to avoid asking oneself for some meaning for their lifes. The spectacle of people running to the extenuation in massive marathons with "solidary" purposes as a modern form of primitive sacrifice is one of the most bizarre but enlightening things in this "rationalist" modern world. > > Bruno > > > > > On 24 November 2013 04:56, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> On 23 Nov 2013, at 14:05, Roger Clough wrote: >> >> >> >> Atheism is wish fulfillment. >> >> >> >> Yes. Notably. I agree. >> >> It is the fuzzy belief that the Christian God does not exist, together >> with the belief in the Christian "Matter". >> >> The debate between Atheists and Christians hides the deeper debate >> between Aristotle and Plato. >> >> Bruno >> >> >> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ >> >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > -- Alberto. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
