On 12/19/2013 1:06 PM, Stephen Paul King wrote:
No, QM allows teleportation so 1) and 2) are already shown (in the case of atoms) to
be possible. What QM disallows is 3) - 5), which makes the rest of the steps subject to
The non-cloning theorem disallows 3)-5) at the level of the quantum state. It's not so
clear though how that is related to consciousness and identity. Our brain is *mostly*
classical. So what is lost in a duplication may be no more than short-term memory, as
from a concussion.
I wish that Bruno could run his UD argument without any discussion of
As I see things, it boils down to whether or not first person indeterminacy is a
QM seems to imply that either what happens to you is indeterminate, or everything happens
and who it happens to, i.e. "you", is inderterminate.
and whether or not if transformations on integers are sufficient to faithfully represent
the physical world and our existence in such as "self-aware" entities.
Whether they are or not, it must be that they are sufficient to encode any representation
we can understand. In fact a finite subset must suffice. But then Godel's theorem may be
On Thu, Dec 19, 2013 at 3:02 PM, Richard Ruquist <yann...@gmail.com
I do not believe in #1 due to the no cloning theorem.
If comp produces QM it must also produce the no cloning theorem.
On Thu, Dec 19, 2013 at 2:42 PM, Jason Resch <jasonre...@gmail.com
On Thu, Dec 19, 2013 at 11:29 AM, John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com
On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 2:05 PM, Jason Resch <jasonre...@gmail.com
> Bruno: The question is: is it enough correct so that you
us in answering step 4. If not: what is incorrect.
John Clark: (No answer, deleted the question)
I have not read step 4, however if it is built on the foundation of
first 3 steps
What is the error in step 3?
(and I can't think why it would be called "step 4" if it were not)
can conclude that one thing wrong with step 4 (I don't claim it is
thing) is the previous 3 steps.
I think if you read the whole set of steps (or even just the next few
would see where things are going and wouldn't have so much trouble
the point of the third step.
I will summarize them for you here:
1: Teleportation is survivable
2: Teleportation with a time delay is survivable, and the time delay is
imperceptible to the person teleported
3. Duplication (teleportation to two locations: one intended and one
is survivable, and following duplication there is a 50% chance of
oneself at the intended destination
4. Duplication with delay changes nothing. If duplicate to the intended
destination, and then a year later duplicated to the unintended
subjectively there is still a 50% chance of finding oneself at the
5. Teleportation without destroying the original is equivalent to the
duplication with delay. If someone creates a copy of you somewhere,
there is a
50% chance you will find yourself in that alternate location.
6. If a virtual copy of you is instantiated in a computer somewhere,
then as in
step 5, there is a 50% chance you will find yourself trapped in that
7. A computer with enough time and memory, that iteratively executes all
programs in parallel will "kidnap" everyone, since all observers
all universes) will eventually find themselves to be in this computer
8. There is no need to build the computer in step 7, since the
executions of all
programs exist within the relations between large numbers. Hence,
realism is a candidate TOE.
This is the "grand conclusion" you have been missing for all these
don't think this was obvious to Og the caveman.
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