Re: [AFMUG] Spam:*****, Re: OT Campus Shootings

[Lewis Bergman]

The second amendment has been poorly interpreted. If the founders were
writing the constitution today everyone would have the right to own an M1
Abrams tank and an F22. In my opinion it is about assuring your right to
freedom from tyranny by the government, crazies, or generally powerful.
I would think Europeans would understand that better than anyone. In the
end I think it is part of the American culture. A great many of us believe
that the individual is a better trustee of your future and safety than the
government. You are responsible for yourself, your success, your failure,
your safety.
If you want to wait until some trained officer shows up to your aid you are
free to do so. On the other hand, if you believe you are capable of taking
care of yourself, then go ahead.

A weapon is an equalizer. It makes a 90 pound woman equal to or better than
a 300 pound steroid maniac.

Firearms are dangerous. You can kill yourself or others. So are cars,
planes, etc. Yes guns are designed to kill. So what.

My bottom line is if one person on this planet has something they can kill
me with, I believe I have a right to something of equal or greater
lethality to defend myself. Not the government owning something to attempt
to defend me when they have the budget to do so, feel like it, aren't
involved in some ceremony, busy defending someone else, out standing in a
line while a group of Jackasses burn me and my house or business down.

There are numerous examples of why guns shouldn't be allowed in anyone's
hands. There are plenty of examples of how a single private citizen has
prevented harm with a gun.

My bottom line is- if any person or organization has the right to use a gun
then so should I.

On Sat, Oct 10, 2015, 7:38 AM Tyson Burris @ Internet Communications Inc <
t...@franklinisp.net> wrote:

> I was raised around the farm and guns.  I  was taught how to use them
> properly.  In school, we actually had a class on gun safety and usage.
> (not required)  People are the problem and always will be.  We try to be
> our own ‘gods’ but that will never work.   As Gino pointed out, human
> beings need to be controlled. Laws are only rules or guidelines.  A person
> with underlying issues to begin with will not obey laws.  Even if this
> country had no access to guns, someone with a desire to cause harm will
> find a way.  Drugs are illegal… how is that working out?
>
>
>
> Some of you may watch the documentary ‘drugs inc’.   Chicago is a waste
> land of gun violence right now. (mainly drug related)  A recent interview
> on the show struck me as one our biggest problems.   Two young kids dealing
> on the streets admitted they grew up without a ‘good’ parents. People on
> the streets are their family and taught them how to survive.  I won’t even
> get into the argument here, but family values have been turned upside down
> for years and the trend is up.
>
>
>
> These two drug dealers  statement echos the real issue here IMHO.  (many
> will disagree)  Parenting is the #1 frontline defense against so many
> problems.  If you parent good, and are fully involved with your kids’ lives
> a positive outcome should result.
>
>
>
> The issue I see right now is bad parenting is growing exponentially. We
> are seeing an increase of bad parents raising kids with problems.  Those
> kids grow up and do the same.  They have kids and so forth.  Some are lucky
> enough to break the trend but most don’t.
>
>
>
> To make matters worse,  social media is a driving force behind so much
> opinion and ideas.  We are all so connected now that a person with
> underlying desires to harm (not just gun related) can easily gain access to
> things he/she never had before.  This drives the problem even further.
>
>
>
>
>
> *Tyson Burris, President*
> *Internet Communications Inc.*
> *739 Commerce Dr.*
> *Franklin, IN 46131*
>
> *317-738-0320 Daytime #*
> *317-412-1540 Cell/Direct #*
> *Online: **www.surfici.net* 
>
>
>
> [image: ICI]
>
> *What can ICI do for you?*
>
>
> *Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP
> Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure.*
>
> *CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the*
> *addressee shown. It contains information that is*
> *confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review,*
> *dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by*
> *unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly*
> *prohibited.*
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Gino Villarini
> *Sent:* Saturday, October 10, 2015 6:49 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Spam:*, Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings
>
>
>
> Freedom is not the exercise to choose whatever you want.  Heck then free
> all the child molesters! Human beings need to be controlled, that the whole
> reasoning behind laws.  Im with Jaime and Stefan on this.
>
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 6:28 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
> There are many items that kill more 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings

[Jaime Solorza]

The 2nd Amendment was based on English version which came earlier and its
meaning was for militia to be able to defend state.   I don't want to get
into a history lesson or political debate.   But freedom and individual
rights do not and should over ride individual responsibility. Hell we have
to take tests to obtain a drivers license...it offers some  level of order
on the roads.  It is too easy for people in USA to but guns. Hunting is one
thing...you don't hunt with a hand gun or AK!!!   The wackos and lobbyists
for NRA and extreme groups will fight  tooth and nail any attempt to
regulate them citing their rights! What about the right to act responsibly
and live in peace.   Doesn't portent well for our children

Jaime Solorza
Freedom is not the exercise to choose whatever you want.  Heck then free
all the child molesters! Human beings need to be controlled, that the whole
reasoning behind laws.  Im with Jaime and Stefan on this.

On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 6:28 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:

> There are many items that kill more humans than first world guns.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
> --
> *From: *"Stefan Englhardt" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Friday, October 9, 2015 11:21:43 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings
>
> Looking at this with a foreign view I can't understand this "gun love" in
> US. It is not all about the criminals or idiots. Just look at the
> statistics for accidents with weapons. The only way to save lifes is to be
> very restrictive. If someone wants to shoot he can go to a shooting club
> and leave the weapon there. It is not freedom to have a gun at home. It is
> silly esp. with kids around.
> You can't avoid killing with banning weapons but you can reduce it. If I
> need a weapon I call for police or security.
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review

[Josh Luthman]

Wouldn't they crystallize and be worthless?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Oct 10, 2015 12:24 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

> But he could have scooped up some and put them in the rover to keep warm.
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman 
> *Sent:* Friday, October 09, 2015 11:29 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review
>
>
> SPOILERS
>
> Mars is -55c, one would think those potatoes would be useless in minutes.
> Even if they took an hour, it was hours before he sealed the lab.
>
> Untethered was driving me nuts.  So dumb.  Bad for science and the movie.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> On Oct 10, 2015 1:19 AM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> the "convertible" didn't throw you?  It did mei mean, really?  Now
>> you just KNEW halfway through that launch the tent tarp would come offi
>> mean, you just knew it.
>>
>> then again they pointed out the very thin atmosphereand stuff usually
>> burns up on re-entry, not taking off.
>>
>> but still - are you kidding me?
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> *From:* Chuck McCown 
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Sent:* Monday, October 05, 2015 9:46 AM
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review
>>
>> Minor spoiler alert...
>>
>>
>> The few complaints are:
>> Hermes EVA untethered.  Not gonna happen.
>>
>> Standing in a docking port untethered waiting for a cargo shipment.  Not
>> gonna happen.
>>
>> Hermes crew being able to calculate dynamic intercept and explosive
>> decompression thrust issues in seemingly minutes.  Perhaps computers are
>> that good in that year but the guy on earth had to go physically plug into
>> a supercomputer to do the same thing and it seemingly took him several
>> days... (that would not happen either, the physically plugging into the
>> supercomputer)
>>
>> Old lander having a data bus that could interconnect with new stuff.
>> Perhaps.  Maybe there is some kind of old NASA standard data bus like
>> RS-232.  Might could have happened.
>>
>> Antenna on old lander looked too small to do the trick. I am thinking if
>> that was a true replica, it was probably talking to an orbiting relay
>> spacecraft back when it was still working.
>>
>> Video links on Hermes and on Mars seemed to be interlaced analog
>> video  Come on!  Analog video artifacts too when the power was
>> blinking.  We all understand pixilation, that is what you would truly be
>> seeing.
>>
>> Hydrazine on iridium makes steam, not hydrogen.  But even better for
>> making water.  Does not require a flame.
>>
>> Ironman thrust vectors would probably not look like what we saw.
>>
>> Potatoes would not instantly freeze so hard they would die.  Takes time
>> for the heat to leave them.  I think he could have quickly saved a few
>> viable specimens.
>>
>> I positively loved the hexadecimal / ASCII  pointer system...  That
>> stroked some dormant but very favorite gray cells in my noggin.
>>
>> I wished he had scavenged some of those larger parabolic antennas and
>> rigged up a high bandwidth link with earth.  They could have use the dishes
>> at Goldstone, Canberra and Madrid to talk to him half of each day.  (Of
>> course with the delay).  I imagine he would have had to track the earth so
>> that may have been pretty difficult to do for any length of time.
>>
>> *From:* Patrick Leary 
>> *Sent:* Monday, October 05, 2015 6:12 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review
>>
>>
>> My wife, two teen daughters and I saw Martian this weekend. It was one of
>> the best movies I’ve seen in a very long time and I’m a movie freak.
>> Perfect casting and even better script. Matt Damon had a tough job carrying
>> the film in his scenes, but his use of the station video-based report
>> filing enables us to get more entertaining dialogue from him (as opposed to
>> the slightly more I’m-going-crazy-talking-to-myself lines from Tom Hanks in
>> Castaway talking to “Wilber”).
>>
>>
>>
>> Throughout the movie Damon is friggin’ great (but those of us who like in
>> the Bourne movies know his ability to nail a role without coming across as
>> a cartoon character already knew this). The science seemed just plausible
>> enough for non-scientists.
>>
>>
>>
>> Not enough credit in the reviews will be given to the Nasa team cast on
>> earth, but without it, the movie would have dragged and feeling their
>> urgency and suspense builds our own.
>>
>>
>>
>> Just go see it. I cannot imagine any WISP not loving this movie, as it
>> takes one’s inner geek and shows us how to turn it into total badassery.
>>
>>
>>
>> Patrick Leary, Telrad
>>
>> 727-501-3735
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jaime Solorza
>> *Sent:* Monday, October 5, 2015 12:26 AM
>> *To:* Animal Farm 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings

[Chuck McCown]

This nation had it cast in stone at the formation.  
Don’t like it - folks are free to move somewhere where things are done 
differently.
There may be a better way, but not gonna happen here.

I think the the citizenry of colder nations are more peaceful.  
Blame  it on global warming.  (That would be fun if all the climate deniers 
switched sides and took up that argument...)


How is the Australian experiment working out?



From: Stefan Englhardt 
Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 2:20 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings

I know. But some things have to be said nevertheless. I can stand the answers.



 Ursprüngliche Nachricht 
Von: Jason McKemie 
Datum:10.10.2015 09:26 (GMT+01:00) 
An: af@afmug.com 
Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings 

Re: [AFMUG] UBNT Next try

[Ken Hohhof]

But under the new FCC rules, I assume the closer you are to the band edge, the 
more the severe the OOBE requirement becomes.

Could this be the start of equipment with additional hardware for a dynamic 
OOBE xmt filter to meet the FCC requirements?  Whereas airPrism only filtered 
the rcv signal?  What about Cambium 450i, anyone know if it filters both xmt 
and rcv?

I wonder if WiFi gear will do this as well?  Perhaps no, given the cost 
sensitivity, and that it wouldn’t help unless the client device also had it.  
But it seems like a sure winner for LTE-U/LAA.  Trivial addition to an LTE 
basestation cost, in fact maybe they already have that capability for licensed 
band operation, surely they are not using WiFi chips.  And no need to add 
anything to the client device because it doesn’t xmt in unlicensed.


From: Chuck McCown 
Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 12:33 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] UBNT Next try

I can understand not being the same power at 5.2 and 5.8  but across the 5.8 
band, it should have been able to have the same power.  

That is pretty narrow banded for a modern power amplifier device.  

From: Peter Kranz 
Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 11:21 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] UBNT Next try

There is some interesting information in the Transmitter PSD chart in regards 
to OOBE limits.

“The EUT was set to transmit on the lowest, middle and highest frequencies at 
the maximum power level”

It shows using the same (25dBm) power level at 5735 and 5840 which I believe 
was not possible with the previous hardware. It looks like it supports full 
power across the band.

 

-PK

Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review

[CBB - Jay Fuller]

yes, but unsuited once he pressurized the "repaired" hab unit...i wouldn't have 
trusted that.
well, you know, i was in the audience so my thoughts didn't really matter... lol

  - Original Message - 
  From: Josh Luthman 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 12:27 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review


  He suited up.

  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  On Oct 10, 2015 12:58 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller"  
wrote:


i was laughing pretty hard when he sealed the hab with plastic wrap...i 
mean really?  that's not going to keep the heat in for sure...

but hey, it's a movie..

  - Original Message - 
  From: Josh Luthman 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 12:28 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review


  SPOILERS


  Mars is -55c, one would think those potatoes would be useless in minutes. 
 Even if they took an hour, it was hours before he sealed the lab.

  Untethered was driving me nuts.  So dumb.  Bad for science and the movie.

  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  On Oct 10, 2015 1:19 AM, "CBB - Jay Fuller"  
wrote:


the "convertible" didn't throw you?  It did mei mean, really?  Now 
you just KNEW halfway through that launch the tent tarp would come offi 
mean, you just knew it.

then again they pointed out the very thin atmosphereand stuff 
usually burns up on re-entry, not taking off.

but still - are you kidding me?  
  - Original Message - 
  From: Chuck McCown 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Monday, October 05, 2015 9:46 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review


  Minor spoiler alert...


  The few complaints are:
  Hermes EVA untethered.  Not gonna happen.

  Standing in a docking port untethered waiting for a cargo shipment.  
Not gonna happen.

  Hermes crew being able to calculate dynamic intercept and explosive 
decompression thrust issues in seemingly minutes.  Perhaps computers are that 
good in that year but the guy on earth had to go physically plug into a 
supercomputer to do the same thing and it seemingly took him several days... 
(that would not happen either, the physically plugging into the supercomputer)

  Old lander having a data bus that could interconnect with new stuff.  
Perhaps.  Maybe there is some kind of old NASA standard data bus like RS-232.  
Might could have happened.  

  Antenna on old lander looked too small to do the trick. I am thinking 
if that was a true replica, it was probably talking to an orbiting relay 
spacecraft back when it was still working.  

  Video links on Hermes and on Mars seemed to be interlaced analog 
video  Come on!  Analog video artifacts too when the power was blinking.  
We all understand pixilation, that is what you would truly be seeing.  

  Hydrazine on iridium makes steam, not hydrogen.  But even better for 
making water.  Does not require a flame.  

  Ironman thrust vectors would probably not look like what we saw.  

  Potatoes would not instantly freeze so hard they would die.  Takes 
time for the heat to leave them.  I think he could have quickly saved a few 
viable specimens.  

  I positively loved the hexadecimal / ASCII  pointer system...  That 
stroked some dormant but very favorite gray cells in my noggin.  

  I wished he had scavenged some of those larger parabolic antennas and 
rigged up a high bandwidth link with earth.  They could have use the dishes at 
Goldstone, Canberra and Madrid to talk to him half of each day.  (Of course 
with the delay).  I imagine he would have had to track the earth so that may 
have been pretty difficult to do for any length of time.  

  From: Patrick Leary 
  Sent: Monday, October 05, 2015 6:12 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review

  My wife, two teen daughters and I saw Martian this weekend. It was 
one of the best movies I’ve seen in a very long time and I’m a movie freak. 
Perfect casting and even better script. Matt Damon had a tough job carrying the 
film in his scenes, but his use of the station video-based report filing 
enables us to get more entertaining dialogue from him (as opposed to the 
slightly more I’m-going-crazy-talking-to-myself lines from Tom Hanks in 
Castaway talking to “Wilber”). 



  Throughout the movie Damon is friggin’ great (but those of us who 
like in the Bourne movies know his ability to nail a role without coming across 
as a cartoon character already knew this). The science seemed just plausible 
enough for non-scientists. 



  Not enough credit in the reviews 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings

[Mike Hammett]

Except that most mass shootings are done with weapons that were obtained in 
circumstances that even the most strict of control laws would allow. The 
weapons painted as being so evil just plain aren't used in these situations. 

Logic doesn't lead you to gun control. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

- Original Message -

From: "Darin Steffl"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 8:12:08 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings 


I carry a .380 pistol with me most of the time but I only own three guns 
myself. I also consider myself to have many Democratic views when it comes to 
gun policy and Republican views with taxes & business aspects. 


I personally think it should be MUCH harder to purchase a firearm than it is. 
When I purchased my new glock, I ordered it online at Gander Mountain and 
walked into the store, they did a quick background check and I walked out in 10 
minutes. It was great to me as a consumer and easy. BUT, what if I was angry or 
in the heat of the moment and wanted to harm people. Now that easy gun purchase 
allowed me to walk out the same day with a deadly weapon. 


I do not think our government is trying to take guns away as the crazy 
Republicans like to lie about. I do think we should have much stricter gun 
control though to keep the nutty people from having easy access. All that is 
going to do is make it take longer to purchase a legal firearm, which I am 
perfectly fine with if it prevents even one shooting death or mass shooting. 


If there's other policies being proposed that can help limit access to guns, 
I'm all for it if it still allows me to purchase a pistol to carry legally and 
a shotgun to go hunting. I don't believe I should be allowed to own a machine 
gun type weapon for use at my home. Weapons like that should be allowed only at 
shooting ranges and locked up under heavy security. They do not belong at a 
residential home anywhere for sport or home protection. 


So anyway, I think there are gun nuts out there that like to walk around while 
open carrying and say Obama is trying to steal all our guns. I think they're 
crazy and need a bonk on the head to come to your senses. Try acting normal and 
conceal your weapon, don't talk like a crazy gun nut and try to realize you 
don't need a machine gun. 


The government's job is to protect as many citizens as possible. That means 
more laws, more enforcement, and more compliance. We can't easily identify and 
stop all people who will commit a shooting crime. We can more easily target 
guns themselves and prevent the sale of them to as many "bad" people as 
possible. For "good" and legal people who want to buy one, stop complaining 
about gun control and embrace it in order to help save lives. Gun control isn't 
meant for good people, only the bad people. You'll still be able to buy any 
weapon you "need" in order to hunt or protect your home. 


On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 5:48 AM, Gino Villarini < ginovi...@gmail.com > wrote: 



Freedom is not the exercise to choose whatever you want. Heck then free all the 
child molesters! Human beings need to be controlled, that the whole reasoning 
behind laws. Im with Jaime and Stefan on this. 




On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 6:28 AM, Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




There are many items that kill more humans than first world guns. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 



From: "Stefan Englhardt" < s...@genias.net > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, October 9, 2015 11:21:43 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings 


Looking at this with a foreign view I can't understand this "gun love" in US. 
It is not all about the criminals or idiots. Just look at the statistics for 
accidents with weapons. The only way to save lifes is to be very restrictive. 
If someone wants to shoot he can go to a shooting club and leave the weapon 
there. It is not freedom to have a gun at home. It is silly esp. with kids 
around. 
You can't avoid killing with banning weapons but you can reduce it. If I need a 
weapon I call for police or security. 









-- 


Darin Steffl 
Minnesota WiFi 
www.mnwifi.com 
507-634-WiFi 
Like us on Facebook 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review

[Chuck McCown]

Talking about the potatoes, not the plants.  Presuming he had plants at 
different stages of growth, there should have been some potatoes that he could  
have quickly dug up (being insulated  by the soil) and thrown them in the 
rover.  Later they could have been planted.

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 10:29 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review

Wouldn't they crystallize and be worthless?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Oct 10, 2015 12:24 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

  But he could have scooped up some and put them in the rover to keep warm.  

  From: Josh Luthman 
  Sent: Friday, October 09, 2015 11:29 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review

  SPOILERS


  Mars is -55c, one would think those potatoes would be useless in minutes.  
Even if they took an hour, it was hours before he sealed the lab.

  Untethered was driving me nuts.  So dumb.  Bad for science and the movie.

  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  On Oct 10, 2015 1:19 AM, "CBB - Jay Fuller"  wrote:


the "convertible" didn't throw you?  It did mei mean, really?  Now you 
just KNEW halfway through that launch the tent tarp would come offi mean, 
you just knew it.

then again they pointed out the very thin atmosphereand stuff usually 
burns up on re-entry, not taking off.

but still - are you kidding me?  
  - Original Message - 
  From: Chuck McCown 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Monday, October 05, 2015 9:46 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review

  Minor spoiler alert...


  The few complaints are:
  Hermes EVA untethered.  Not gonna happen.

  Standing in a docking port untethered waiting for a cargo shipment.  Not 
gonna happen.

  Hermes crew being able to calculate dynamic intercept and explosive 
decompression thrust issues in seemingly minutes.  Perhaps computers are that 
good in that year but the guy on earth had to go physically plug into a 
supercomputer to do the same thing and it seemingly took him several days... 
(that would not happen either, the physically plugging into the supercomputer)

  Old lander having a data bus that could interconnect with new stuff.  
Perhaps.  Maybe there is some kind of old NASA standard data bus like RS-232.  
Might could have happened.  

  Antenna on old lander looked too small to do the trick. I am thinking if 
that was a true replica, it was probably talking to an orbiting relay 
spacecraft back when it was still working.  

  Video links on Hermes and on Mars seemed to be interlaced analog 
video  Come on!  Analog video artifacts too when the power was blinking.  
We all understand pixilation, that is what you would truly be seeing.  

  Hydrazine on iridium makes steam, not hydrogen.  But even better for 
making water.  Does not require a flame.  

  Ironman thrust vectors would probably not look like what we saw.  

  Potatoes would not instantly freeze so hard they would die.  Takes time 
for the heat to leave them.  I think he could have quickly saved a few viable 
specimens.  

  I positively loved the hexadecimal / ASCII  pointer system...  That 
stroked some dormant but very favorite gray cells in my noggin.  

  I wished he had scavenged some of those larger parabolic antennas and 
rigged up a high bandwidth link with earth.  They could have use the dishes at 
Goldstone, Canberra and Madrid to talk to him half of each day.  (Of course 
with the delay).  I imagine he would have had to track the earth so that may 
have been pretty difficult to do for any length of time.  

  From: Patrick Leary 
  Sent: Monday, October 05, 2015 6:12 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review

  My wife, two teen daughters and I saw Martian this weekend. It was one of 
the best movies I’ve seen in a very long time and I’m a movie freak. Perfect 
casting and even better script. Matt Damon had a tough job carrying the film in 
his scenes, but his use of the station video-based report filing enables us to 
get more entertaining dialogue from him (as opposed to the slightly more 
I’m-going-crazy-talking-to-myself lines from Tom Hanks in Castaway talking to 
“Wilber”). 



  Throughout the movie Damon is friggin’ great (but those of us who like in 
the Bourne movies know his ability to nail a role without coming across as a 
cartoon character already knew this). The science seemed just plausible enough 
for non-scientists. 



  Not enough credit in the reviews will be given to the Nasa team cast on 
earth, but without it, the movie would have dragged and feeling their urgency 
and suspense builds our own.



  Just go see it. I cannot imagine any WISP not loving this movie, as it 
takes one’s inner 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review

[Josh Luthman]

He suited up.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Oct 10, 2015 12:58 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" 
wrote:

>
> i was laughing pretty hard when he sealed the hab with plastic wrap...i
> mean really?  that's not going to keep the heat in for sure...
>
> but hey, it's a movie..
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Josh Luthman 
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Sent:* Saturday, October 10, 2015 12:28 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review
>
> SPOILERS
>
> Mars is -55c, one would think those potatoes would be useless in minutes.
> Even if they took an hour, it was hours before he sealed the lab.
>
> Untethered was driving me nuts.  So dumb.  Bad for science and the movie.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> On Oct 10, 2015 1:19 AM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> the "convertible" didn't throw you?  It did mei mean, really?  Now
>> you just KNEW halfway through that launch the tent tarp would come offi
>> mean, you just knew it.
>>
>> then again they pointed out the very thin atmosphereand stuff usually
>> burns up on re-entry, not taking off.
>>
>> but still - are you kidding me?
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> *From:* Chuck McCown 
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Sent:* Monday, October 05, 2015 9:46 AM
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review
>>
>> Minor spoiler alert...
>>
>>
>> The few complaints are:
>> Hermes EVA untethered.  Not gonna happen.
>>
>> Standing in a docking port untethered waiting for a cargo shipment.  Not
>> gonna happen.
>>
>> Hermes crew being able to calculate dynamic intercept and explosive
>> decompression thrust issues in seemingly minutes.  Perhaps computers are
>> that good in that year but the guy on earth had to go physically plug into
>> a supercomputer to do the same thing and it seemingly took him several
>> days... (that would not happen either, the physically plugging into the
>> supercomputer)
>>
>> Old lander having a data bus that could interconnect with new stuff.
>> Perhaps.  Maybe there is some kind of old NASA standard data bus like
>> RS-232.  Might could have happened.
>>
>> Antenna on old lander looked too small to do the trick. I am thinking if
>> that was a true replica, it was probably talking to an orbiting relay
>> spacecraft back when it was still working.
>>
>> Video links on Hermes and on Mars seemed to be interlaced analog
>> video  Come on!  Analog video artifacts too when the power was
>> blinking.  We all understand pixilation, that is what you would truly be
>> seeing.
>>
>> Hydrazine on iridium makes steam, not hydrogen.  But even better for
>> making water.  Does not require a flame.
>>
>> Ironman thrust vectors would probably not look like what we saw.
>>
>> Potatoes would not instantly freeze so hard they would die.  Takes time
>> for the heat to leave them.  I think he could have quickly saved a few
>> viable specimens.
>>
>> I positively loved the hexadecimal / ASCII  pointer system...  That
>> stroked some dormant but very favorite gray cells in my noggin.
>>
>> I wished he had scavenged some of those larger parabolic antennas and
>> rigged up a high bandwidth link with earth.  They could have use the dishes
>> at Goldstone, Canberra and Madrid to talk to him half of each day.  (Of
>> course with the delay).  I imagine he would have had to track the earth so
>> that may have been pretty difficult to do for any length of time.
>>
>> *From:* Patrick Leary 
>> *Sent:* Monday, October 05, 2015 6:12 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review
>>
>>
>> My wife, two teen daughters and I saw Martian this weekend. It was one of
>> the best movies I’ve seen in a very long time and I’m a movie freak.
>> Perfect casting and even better script. Matt Damon had a tough job carrying
>> the film in his scenes, but his use of the station video-based report
>> filing enables us to get more entertaining dialogue from him (as opposed to
>> the slightly more I’m-going-crazy-talking-to-myself lines from Tom Hanks in
>> Castaway talking to “Wilber”).
>>
>>
>>
>> Throughout the movie Damon is friggin’ great (but those of us who like in
>> the Bourne movies know his ability to nail a role without coming across as
>> a cartoon character already knew this). The science seemed just plausible
>> enough for non-scientists.
>>
>>
>>
>> Not enough credit in the reviews will be given to the Nasa team cast on
>> earth, but without it, the movie would have dragged and feeling their
>> urgency and suspense builds our own.
>>
>>
>>
>> Just go see it. I cannot imagine any WISP not loving this movie, as it
>> takes one’s inner geek and shows us how to turn it into total badassery.
>>
>>
>>
>> Patrick Leary, Telrad
>>
>> 727-501-3735
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af 

Re: [AFMUG] UBNT Next try

[Peter Kranz]

The previous hardware lost channels above 5825 and

 

“CAUTION:

 

Due to the new OOBE requirements, 5.8GHz EIRP limits with the new UNII rules 
are lower than the previous DTS rules. Please keep this in mind and exercise 
caution before activating the UNII bands on existing longer distance links.

“

 

-PK

Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review

[Seth Mattinen]

On 10/10/15 09:58, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:

i was laughing pretty hard when he sealed the hab with plastic wrap...i
mean really?  that's not going to keep the heat in for sure...



That's plausible. It just needed to keep pressure as a minor part of the 
total surface area. The fictional hab itself was an inflatable structure 
not too unlike what Bigelow is doing.


~Seth

Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings

[Jaime Solorza]

The debate is basically a Mexican Stand Off...I am done with it ...look at
current political condition on all sides.Email crap to implosion of the
Grumpy Old Party.  On a side note the disjointed actions and antics of
Republican party are entertainment to me.  Between Bozo the clown and that
"open mouth, insert foot" guy McCarthy it sure is funny.  As i tell my
super right wing creationist friend...you guys are your own worst enemy.

Jaime Solorza

Yes, the meaning clearly was for militia to be able to defend the state,
but it is also pretty clear that they were intended to be able to defend
against the government, if necessary. That doesn't work if the government
has complete control over who can bear arms.
On Oct 10, 2015 10:06 AM, "Jaime Solorza"  wrote:

> The 2nd Amendment was based on English version which came earlier and its
> meaning was for militia to be able to defend state.   I don't want to get
> into a history lesson or political debate.   But freedom and individual
> rights do not and should over ride individual responsibility. Hell we have
> to take tests to obtain a drivers license...it offers some  level of order
> on the roads.  It is too easy for people in USA to but guns. Hunting is one
> thing...you don't hunt with a hand gun or AK!!!   The wackos and lobbyists
> for NRA and extreme groups will fight  tooth and nail any attempt to
> regulate them citing their rights! What about the right to act responsibly
> and live in peace.   Doesn't portent well for our children
>
> Jaime Solorza
> Freedom is not the exercise to choose whatever you want.  Heck then free
> all the child molesters! Human beings need to be controlled, that the whole
> reasoning behind laws.  Im with Jaime and Stefan on this.
>
> On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 6:28 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
>> There are many items that kill more humans than first world guns.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>> --
>> *From: *"Stefan Englhardt" 
>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Friday, October 9, 2015 11:21:43 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings
>>
>> Looking at this with a foreign view I can't understand this "gun love" in
>> US. It is not all about the criminals or idiots. Just look at the
>> statistics for accidents with weapons. The only way to save lifes is to be
>> very restrictive. If someone wants to shoot he can go to a shooting club
>> and leave the weapon there. It is not freedom to have a gun at home. It is
>> silly esp. with kids around.
>> You can't avoid killing with banning weapons but you can reduce it. If I
>> need a weapon I call for police or security.
>>
>>
>

[AFMUG] OT Guns etc

[Chuck McCown]

This has been fun reading.

I love this list.  Folks are smart and mostly polite and post some pretty 
well reasoned arguments on both sides of almost any issue.  This is all the 
social media I need.


I did want to make a comment about the Illinois FOID card.

I was a hostage in a bank robbery back in about 1993 in Quincy Illinois. 
Once it was over and I got out of the bank, I  learned that a co-worker had 
suffered some kind of stress attack and was in the hospital.  That afternoon 
they were out of beds in some of the areas so that took him to the 5th 
floor.  That is the psych floor.


Then, it turned out, anyone that gets admitted to a psych ward in Illinois 
gets reported to the FOID people.

They revoke the FOID card.

This guy was a big time hunter.  It just about killed him.
He got some pretty good press and got some political help.  Hot his card 
back in about 6 weeks.


So, if you want to keep your FOID stay out of psych wards!

Re: [AFMUG] UBNT Next try

[Chuck McCown]

Wonder if UBNT knows the curse of  the word “prism”...

From: Stefan Englhardt 
Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 10:34 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] UBNT Next try

Found on the UBNT Forum:

https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/ViewExhibitReport.cfm?mode=Exhibits=500=N_id=Q0n68V3nVE3QM6rWjHB44g%3D%3D_id=SWX-R5ACPRISM

 

There is a third connector and a LED for GPS.

 

Re: [AFMUG] UBNT Next try

[Jaime Solorza]

I have a low friend in a high position going to have dinner with Robert
this weekend in Vegas.  See what i learn.

Jaime Solorza
On Oct 10, 2015 10:49 AM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

Wonder if UBNT knows the curse of  the word “prism”...

*From:* Stefan Englhardt 
*Sent:* Saturday, October 10, 2015 10:34 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* [AFMUG] UBNT Next try


Found on the UBNT Forum:

https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/ViewExhibitReport.cfm?mode=Exhibits=500=N_id=Q0n68V3nVE3QM6rWjHB44g%3D%3D_id=SWX-R5ACPRISM



There is a third connector and a LED for GPS.

Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review

[Lewis Bergman]

I don't want to read the book. That's like TV for smart people.

On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 2:07 PM CBB - Jay Fuller 
wrote:

>
> yes, but unsuited once he pressurized the "repaired" hab unit...i wouldn't
> have trusted that.
> well, you know, i was in the audience so my thoughts didn't really
> matter... lol
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Josh Luthman 
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Sent:* Saturday, October 10, 2015 12:27 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review
>
> He suited up.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Oct 10, 2015 12:58 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" 
> wrote:
>
>
>> i was laughing pretty hard when he sealed the hab with plastic wrap...i
>> mean really?  that's not going to keep the heat in for sure...
>>
>>
> but hey, it's a movie..
>>
>>
> - Original Message -
>> *From:* Josh Luthman 
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Sent:* Saturday, October 10, 2015 12:28 AM
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review
>>
>> SPOILERS
>>
>> Mars is -55c, one would think those potatoes would be useless in
>> minutes.  Even if they took an hour, it was hours before he sealed the lab.
>>
>> Untethered was driving me nuts.  So dumb.  Bad for science and the movie.
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Oct 10, 2015 1:19 AM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> the "convertible" didn't throw you?  It did mei mean, really?  Now
>>> you just KNEW halfway through that launch the tent tarp would come offi
>>> mean, you just knew it.
>>>
>>> then again they pointed out the very thin atmosphereand stuff
>>> usually burns up on re-entry, not taking off.
>>>
>>> but still - are you kidding me?
>>>
>> - Original Message -
>>> *From:* Chuck McCown 
>>>
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Sent:* Monday, October 05, 2015 9:46 AM
>>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review
>>>
>>> Minor spoiler alert...
>>>
>>>
>>> The few complaints are:
>>> Hermes EVA untethered.  Not gonna happen.
>>>
>>> Standing in a docking port untethered waiting for a cargo shipment.  Not
>>> gonna happen.
>>>
>>> Hermes crew being able to calculate dynamic intercept and explosive
>>> decompression thrust issues in seemingly minutes.  Perhaps computers are
>>> that good in that year but the guy on earth had to go physically plug into
>>> a supercomputer to do the same thing and it seemingly took him several
>>> days... (that would not happen either, the physically plugging into the
>>> supercomputer)
>>>
>>> Old lander having a data bus that could interconnect with new stuff.
>>> Perhaps.  Maybe there is some kind of old NASA standard data bus like
>>> RS-232.  Might could have happened.
>>>
>>> Antenna on old lander looked too small to do the trick. I am thinking if
>>> that was a true replica, it was probably talking to an orbiting relay
>>> spacecraft back when it was still working.
>>>
>>> Video links on Hermes and on Mars seemed to be interlaced analog
>>> video  Come on!  Analog video artifacts too when the power was
>>> blinking.  We all understand pixilation, that is what you would truly be
>>> seeing.
>>>
>>> Hydrazine on iridium makes steam, not hydrogen.  But even better for
>>> making water.  Does not require a flame.
>>>
>>> Ironman thrust vectors would probably not look like what we saw.
>>>
>>> Potatoes would not instantly freeze so hard they would die.  Takes time
>>> for the heat to leave them.  I think he could have quickly saved a few
>>> viable specimens.
>>>
>>> I positively loved the hexadecimal / ASCII  pointer system...  That
>>> stroked some dormant but very favorite gray cells in my noggin.
>>>
>>> I wished he had scavenged some of those larger parabolic antennas and
>>> rigged up a high bandwidth link with earth.  They could have use the dishes
>>> at Goldstone, Canberra and Madrid to talk to him half of each day.  (Of
>>> course with the delay).  I imagine he would have had to track the earth so
>>> that may have been pretty difficult to do for any length of time.
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Patrick Leary 
>>>
>>> *Sent:* Monday, October 05, 2015 6:12 AM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> My wife, two teen daughters and I saw Martian this weekend. It was one
>>> of the best movies I’ve seen in a very long time and I’m a movie freak.
>>> Perfect casting and even better script. Matt Damon had a tough job carrying
>>> the film in his scenes, but his use of the station video-based report
>>> filing enables us to get more entertaining dialogue from him (as opposed to
>>> the slightly more I’m-going-crazy-talking-to-myself lines from Tom Hanks in
>>> Castaway talking to “Wilber”).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Throughout the 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings

[Patrick Leary]

Gun owner here of a very nice S MP40 with grip laser, and a smaller 9MM, and 
unlike most on this list I’m a veteran too professionally trained in a variety 
of weapons systems. That said, my views are not what one might expect because 
above all I believe in rationality. Absolutism, like literalism, is another 
name for extremism and such people have an aversion to science and reason.

We are the only country so lacking in judgment, so unable to grasp the concept 
of proportionality (reacting to real risk, versus chicken shit fear) that we’ll 
spend trillions of dollars, lead thousands of our own to death, and maim and/or 
inflict PTSD upon tens of thousands to stop “terrorism,” when statistically the 
real threat of being impacted by terror is less likely than breaking your hip 
in the shower. Meanwhile, guns improperly used or otherwise used for 
indefensible violence have killed more people in the past 40 years than all our 
wars combined since the birth of the nation and we say there’s nothing we can 
do because “freedom.”

We are a country whose population is chronically unable to process fact, lives 
in perpetual fear of their neighbors, nor can think critically on a great many 
truly existential problems.

Finally, I have a CCP, but I don’t unless I were out hiking or motorcycling out 
somewhere remotely. Of all the reasons the conceal carry, the worst argument is 
because one is afraid of everything and everyone around them. Civilized 
societies simply don’t do this. That’s not a debatable point. Why so many yearn 
for us to be like Mogadishu instead of Copenhagen is beyond me. Why, so you can 
blast away in a busy parking lot at a truck fleeing a Home Depot driven by a 
guy who shoplifted? Yay! How safe are we!

Patrick Leary

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jaime Solorza
Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 12:00 PM
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings


The debate is basically a Mexican Stand Off...I am done with it ...look at 
current political condition on all sides.Email crap to implosion of the 
Grumpy Old Party.  On a side note the disjointed actions and antics of 
Republican party are entertainment to me.  Between Bozo the clown and that 
"open mouth, insert foot" guy McCarthy it sure is funny.  As i tell my super 
right wing creationist friend...you guys are your own worst enemy.

Jaime Solorza

Yes, the meaning clearly was for militia to be able to defend the state, but it 
is also pretty clear that they were intended to be able to defend against the 
government, if necessary. That doesn't work if the government has complete 
control over who can bear arms.
On Oct 10, 2015 10:06 AM, "Jaime Solorza" 
> wrote:

The 2nd Amendment was based on English version which came earlier and its 
meaning was for militia to be able to defend state.   I don't want to get into 
a history lesson or political debate.   But freedom and individual rights do 
not and should over ride individual responsibility. Hell we have to take tests 
to obtain a drivers license...it offers some  level of order on the roads.  It 
is too easy for people in USA to but guns. Hunting is one thing...you don't 
hunt with a hand gun or AK!!!   The wackos and lobbyists for NRA and extreme 
groups will fight  tooth and nail any attempt to regulate them citing their 
rights! What about the right to act responsibly and live in peace.   Doesn't 
portent well for our children

Jaime Solorza
Freedom is not the exercise to choose whatever you want.  Heck then free all 
the child molesters! Human beings need to be controlled, that the whole 
reasoning behind laws.  Im with Jaime and Stefan on this.

On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 6:28 AM, Mike Hammett 
> wrote:
There are many items that kill more humans than first world guns.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


From: "Stefan Englhardt" >
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Friday, October 9, 2015 11:21:43 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings
Looking at this with a foreign view I can't understand this "gun love" in US. 
It is not all about the criminals or idiots. Just look at the statistics for 
accidents with weapons. The only way to save lifes is to be very restrictive. 
If someone wants to shoot he can go to a shooting club and leave the weapon 
there. It is not freedom to have a gun at home. It is silly esp. with kids 
around.
You can't avoid killing with banning weapons but you can reduce it. If I need a 
weapon I call for police or security.






This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by
PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer 
viruses.

Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings

[Mike Hammett]

It isn't responsibility if it's nannying. 

Responsibility implies that you have the means to do so and yet choose 
otherwise. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

- Original Message -

From: "Jaime Solorza"  
To: "Animal Farm"  
Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 10:06:03 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings 


The 2nd Amendment was based on English version which came earlier and its 
meaning was for militia to be able to defend state. I don't want to get into a 
history lesson or political debate. But freedom and individual rights do not 
and should over ride individual responsibility. Hell we have to take tests to 
obtain a drivers license...it offers some level of order on the roads. It is 
too easy for people in USA to but guns. Hunting is one thing...you don't hunt 
with a hand gun or AK!!! The wackos and lobbyists for NRA and extreme groups 
will fight tooth and nail any attempt to regulate them citing their rights! 
What about the right to act responsibly and live in peace. Doesn't portent well 
for our children 
Jaime Solorza 

Freedom is not the exercise to choose whatever you want. Heck then free all the 
child molesters! Human beings need to be controlled, that the whole reasoning 
behind laws. Im with Jaime and Stefan on this. 


On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 6:28 AM, Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




There are many items that kill more humans than first world guns. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 



From: "Stefan Englhardt" < s...@genias.net > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, October 9, 2015 11:21:43 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings 


Looking at this with a foreign view I can't understand this "gun love" in US. 
It is not all about the criminals or idiots. Just look at the statistics for 
accidents with weapons. The only way to save lifes is to be very restrictive. 
If someone wants to shoot he can go to a shooting club and leave the weapon 
there. It is not freedom to have a gun at home. It is silly esp. with kids 
around. 
You can't avoid killing with banning weapons but you can reduce it. If I need a 
weapon I call for police or security. 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings

[Lewis Bergman]

The second amendment has been poorly interpreted. If the founders were
writing the constitution today everyone would have the right to own an M1
Abrams tank and an F22. In my opinion it is about assuring your right to
freedom from tyranny by the government, crazies, or generally powerful.
I would think Europeans would understand that better than anyone. In the
end I think it is part of the American culture. A great many of us believe
that the individual is a better trustee of your future and safety than the
government. You are responsible for yourself, your success, your failure,
your safety.
If you want to wait until some trained officer shows up to your aid you are
free to do so. On the other hand, if you believe you are capable of taking
care of yourself, then go ahead.

A weapon is an equalizer. It makes a 90 pound woman equal to or better than
a 300 pound steroid maniac.

Firearms are dangerous. You can kill yourself or others. So are cars,
planes, etc. Yes guns are designed to kill. So what.

My bottom line is if one person on this planet has something they can kill
me with, I believe I have a right to something of equal or greater
lethality to defend myself. Not the government owning something to attempt
to defend me when they have the budget to do so, feel like it, aren't
involved in some ceremony, busy defending someone else, out standing in a
line while a group of Jackasses burn me and my house or business down.

There are numerous examples of why guns shouldn't be allowed in anyone's
hands. There are plenty of examples of how a single private citizen has
prevented harm with a gun.

My bottom line is- if any person or organization has the right to use a gun
then so should I.

On Sat, Oct 10, 2015, 12:02 AM Stefan Englhardt  wrote:

My chance to get killed is much less then your chance. Without owning a
weapon ...

This "lock separately" does not work and we had a case of campus shooting wh

ere a father did not follow this rule ... If this father did not own a
weapon his mad son would not have the possibility to kill. Talk to the
fathers of the dead children to be convinced.

You need to reduce freedom in this case for security reasons. What If I
love bombs. The good smell of nitro. Who has the right to tell me not to
have some bombs at home. For sure I am careful.

 Ursprüngliche Nachricht 
Von: Jay Weekley 
Datum: 10.10.2015 06:36 (GMT+01:00)
An: af@afmug.com
Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings

Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings

[David Milholen]

This is  a strong point to be made. I take the stance of less control 
and being more proactive. If we as in U.S were to place armed guards in 
every school and the guards being US veterans I believe we would have 
safer schools and add jobs for our veterans that would appreciate and 
have pride in protecting our youth and educational system.
 Every day there is some fool out there who thinks he can take on the 
system though violence instead of trying to divert that energy towards a 
voice of change. Most of us that are veterans here understand that it is 
our duty to uphold our way of living and to protect it.  So, when tested 
they are the ones who will take that test.


that is my 2 Cents!


On 10/9/2015 11:36 PM, Jay Weekley wrote:
By the time police get to you then you are dead.  It IS freedom to 
have a gun at home.  Keep the gun locked up and the ammunition kept 
locked up separately.


Stefan Englhardt wrote:
Looking at this with a foreign view I can't understand this "gun 
love" in US. It is not all about the criminals or idiots. Just look 
at the statistics for accidents with weapons. The only way to save 
lifes is to be very restrictive. If someone wants to shoot he can go 
to a shooting club and leave the weapon there. It is not freedom to 
have a gun at home. It is silly esp. with kids around.
You can't avoid killing with banning weapons but you can reduce it. 
If I need a weapon I call for police or security.




--

Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review

[CBB - Jay Fuller]

who says it was a happy ending? Lol

  - Original Message - 
  From: Jaime Solorza 
  To: Animal Farm 
  Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 1:32 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review


  greatthankswhy go now?  it has a happy ending...predictable


  Jaime Solorza
  Wireless Systems Architect
  915-861-1390


  On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 11:13 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller  
wrote:


This shouldn't give anything away.  I was hoping hoping hoping they didn't 
end it right after the "rescue".  I wanted to see some aftermath - what 
happened once they got back, etc.  I was glad they did not end it right at "the 
rescue..."

  - Original Message - 
  From: Jaime Solorza 
  To: Animal Farm 
  Sent: Sunday, October 04, 2015 10:56 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review


  Please no spoilers

  On Oct 3, 2015 7:14 PM, "Daniel White"  wrote:

I saw it yesterday.  It was one of the best movies I have seen in a 
long time.



Two thumbs up.



Thank you,



Daniel White

afmu...@gmail.com

Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590

Skype: danieldwhite
Social: LinkedIn: Twitter



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Saturday, October 3, 2015 6:48 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review



Martian

Loved it.  

Much better physics than that silly George Clooney movie.  

And funny too.  





This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus 
software. 
  www.avast.com 
 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review

[CBB - Jay Fuller]

i was laughing pretty hard when he sealed the hab with plastic wrap...i mean 
really?  that's not going to keep the heat in for sure...

but hey, it's a movie..

  - Original Message - 
  From: Josh Luthman 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 12:28 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review


  SPOILERS


  Mars is -55c, one would think those potatoes would be useless in minutes.  
Even if they took an hour, it was hours before he sealed the lab.

  Untethered was driving me nuts.  So dumb.  Bad for science and the movie.

  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  On Oct 10, 2015 1:19 AM, "CBB - Jay Fuller"  wrote:


the "convertible" didn't throw you?  It did mei mean, really?  Now you 
just KNEW halfway through that launch the tent tarp would come offi mean, 
you just knew it.

then again they pointed out the very thin atmosphereand stuff usually 
burns up on re-entry, not taking off.

but still - are you kidding me?  
  - Original Message - 
  From: Chuck McCown 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Monday, October 05, 2015 9:46 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review


  Minor spoiler alert...


  The few complaints are:
  Hermes EVA untethered.  Not gonna happen.

  Standing in a docking port untethered waiting for a cargo shipment.  Not 
gonna happen.

  Hermes crew being able to calculate dynamic intercept and explosive 
decompression thrust issues in seemingly minutes.  Perhaps computers are that 
good in that year but the guy on earth had to go physically plug into a 
supercomputer to do the same thing and it seemingly took him several days... 
(that would not happen either, the physically plugging into the supercomputer)

  Old lander having a data bus that could interconnect with new stuff.  
Perhaps.  Maybe there is some kind of old NASA standard data bus like RS-232.  
Might could have happened.  

  Antenna on old lander looked too small to do the trick. I am thinking if 
that was a true replica, it was probably talking to an orbiting relay 
spacecraft back when it was still working.  

  Video links on Hermes and on Mars seemed to be interlaced analog 
video  Come on!  Analog video artifacts too when the power was blinking.  
We all understand pixilation, that is what you would truly be seeing.  

  Hydrazine on iridium makes steam, not hydrogen.  But even better for 
making water.  Does not require a flame.  

  Ironman thrust vectors would probably not look like what we saw.  

  Potatoes would not instantly freeze so hard they would die.  Takes time 
for the heat to leave them.  I think he could have quickly saved a few viable 
specimens.  

  I positively loved the hexadecimal / ASCII  pointer system...  That 
stroked some dormant but very favorite gray cells in my noggin.  

  I wished he had scavenged some of those larger parabolic antennas and 
rigged up a high bandwidth link with earth.  They could have use the dishes at 
Goldstone, Canberra and Madrid to talk to him half of each day.  (Of course 
with the delay).  I imagine he would have had to track the earth so that may 
have been pretty difficult to do for any length of time.  

  From: Patrick Leary 
  Sent: Monday, October 05, 2015 6:12 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review

  My wife, two teen daughters and I saw Martian this weekend. It was one of 
the best movies I’ve seen in a very long time and I’m a movie freak. Perfect 
casting and even better script. Matt Damon had a tough job carrying the film in 
his scenes, but his use of the station video-based report filing enables us to 
get more entertaining dialogue from him (as opposed to the slightly more 
I’m-going-crazy-talking-to-myself lines from Tom Hanks in Castaway talking to 
“Wilber”). 



  Throughout the movie Damon is friggin’ great (but those of us who like in 
the Bourne movies know his ability to nail a role without coming across as a 
cartoon character already knew this). The science seemed just plausible enough 
for non-scientists. 



  Not enough credit in the reviews will be given to the Nasa team cast on 
earth, but without it, the movie would have dragged and feeling their urgency 
and suspense builds our own.



  Just go see it. I cannot imagine any WISP not loving this movie, as it 
takes one’s inner geek and shows us how to turn it into total badassery.



  Patrick Leary, Telrad

  727-501-3735



  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jaime Solorza
  Sent: Monday, October 5, 2015 12:26 AM
  To: Animal Farm 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review



  Ha

  On Oct 4, 2015 9:00 PM, "Glen Waldrop"  wrote:





From: Jaime Solorza 

Sent: Sunday, October 04, 2015 10:56 AM

  

Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review

[Jaime Solorza]

But is Matt still Bourne Bad Ass

Jaime Solorza
On Oct 10, 2015 12:10 PM, "Seth Mattinen"  wrote:

> On 10/10/15 09:58, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:
>
>> i was laughing pretty hard when he sealed the hab with plastic wrap...i
>> mean really?  that's not going to keep the heat in for sure...
>>
>
>
> That's plausible. It just needed to keep pressure as a minor part of the
> total surface area. The fictional hab itself was an inflatable structure
> not too unlike what Bigelow is doing.
>
> ~Seth
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings

[Mike Hammett]

and doesn't work. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

- Original Message -

From: "Lewis Bergman"  
To: "af"  
Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 11:04:17 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings 


I agree with having a test to buy a firearm. But only a competency test for 
things like operation and safety. A test for things like the purpose for user 
may be easily abused. Just like a driver's license, if you price yourself 
untrustworthy, like DWI or in find case, felons, then rights would be 
restricted. 
In a free society the main deterrent should be punishment when a person does 
wrong, not trying to prevent someone from doing wrong by restricting freedom of 
everyone. Democracy is messy and the desire to prevent anything bad from ever 
happening is an excessive restriction on freedom. 



On Sat, Oct 10, 2015, 10:28 AM Mathew Howard < mhoward...@gmail.com > wrote: 



Yes, the meaning clearly was for militia to be able to defend the state, but it 
is also pretty clear that they were intended to be able to defend against the 
government, if necessary. That doesn't work if the government has complete 
control over who can bear arms. 
On Oct 10, 2015 10:06 AM, "Jaime Solorza" < losguyswirel...@gmail.com > wrote: 



The 2nd Amendment was based on English version which came earlier and its 
meaning was for militia to be able to defend state. I don't want to get into a 
history lesson or political debate. But freedom and individual rights do not 
and should over ride individual responsibility. Hell we have to take tests to 
obtain a drivers license...it offers some level of order on the roads. It is 
too easy for people in USA to but guns. Hunting is one thing...you don't hunt 
with a hand gun or AK!!! The wackos and lobbyists for NRA and extreme groups 
will fight tooth and nail any attempt to regulate them citing their rights! 
What about the right to act responsibly and live in peace. Doesn't portent well 
for our children 
Jaime Solorza 

Freedom is not the exercise to choose whatever you want. Heck then free all the 
child molesters! Human beings need to be controlled, that the whole reasoning 
behind laws. Im with Jaime and Stefan on this. 


On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 6:28 AM, Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




There are many items that kill more humans than first world guns. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 



From: "Stefan Englhardt" < s...@genias.net > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, October 9, 2015 11:21:43 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings 


Looking at this with a foreign view I can't understand this "gun love" in US. 
It is not all about the criminals or idiots. Just look at the statistics for 
accidents with weapons. The only way to save lifes is to be very restrictive. 
If someone wants to shoot he can go to a shooting club and leave the weapon 
there. It is not freedom to have a gun at home. It is silly esp. with kids 
around. 
You can't avoid killing with banning weapons but you can reduce it. If I need a 
weapon I call for police or security. 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings

[Mathew Howard]

Yes, the meaning clearly was for militia to be able to defend the state,
but it is also pretty clear that they were intended to be able to defend
against the government, if necessary. That doesn't work if the government
has complete control over who can bear arms.
On Oct 10, 2015 10:06 AM, "Jaime Solorza"  wrote:

> The 2nd Amendment was based on English version which came earlier and its
> meaning was for militia to be able to defend state.   I don't want to get
> into a history lesson or political debate.   But freedom and individual
> rights do not and should over ride individual responsibility. Hell we have
> to take tests to obtain a drivers license...it offers some  level of order
> on the roads.  It is too easy for people in USA to but guns. Hunting is one
> thing...you don't hunt with a hand gun or AK!!!   The wackos and lobbyists
> for NRA and extreme groups will fight  tooth and nail any attempt to
> regulate them citing their rights! What about the right to act responsibly
> and live in peace.   Doesn't portent well for our children
>
> Jaime Solorza
> Freedom is not the exercise to choose whatever you want.  Heck then free
> all the child molesters! Human beings need to be controlled, that the whole
> reasoning behind laws.  Im with Jaime and Stefan on this.
>
> On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 6:28 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
>> There are many items that kill more humans than first world guns.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>> --
>> *From: *"Stefan Englhardt" 
>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Friday, October 9, 2015 11:21:43 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings
>>
>> Looking at this with a foreign view I can't understand this "gun love" in
>> US. It is not all about the criminals or idiots. Just look at the
>> statistics for accidents with weapons. The only way to save lifes is to be
>> very restrictive. If someone wants to shoot he can go to a shooting club
>> and leave the weapon there. It is not freedom to have a gun at home. It is
>> silly esp. with kids around.
>> You can't avoid killing with banning weapons but you can reduce it. If I
>> need a weapon I call for police or security.
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Spam:*****, Re: OT Campus Shootings

[CBB - Jay Fuller]

So what changed from the 1860's to today when in 1860 pretty much everyone had 
a gun and shootings were fairly common (per hollywood at least...)

  - Original Message - 
  From: Lewis Bergman 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 9:54 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Spam:*, Re: OT Campus Shootings


  The second amendment has been poorly interpreted. If the founders were 
writing the constitution today everyone would have the right to own an M1 
Abrams tank and an F22. In my opinion it is about assuring your right to 
freedom from tyranny by the government, crazies, or generally powerful.
  I would think Europeans would understand that better than anyone. In the end 
I think it is part of the American culture. A great many of us believe that the 
individual is a better trustee of your future and safety than the government. 
You are responsible for yourself, your success, your failure, your safety.
  If you want to wait until some trained officer shows up to your aid you are 
free to do so. On the other hand, if you believe you are capable of taking care 
of yourself, then go ahead.

  A weapon is an equalizer. It makes a 90 pound woman equal to or better than a 
300 pound steroid maniac.

  Firearms are dangerous. You can kill yourself or others. So are cars, planes, 
etc. Yes guns are designed to kill. So what.

  My bottom line is if one person on this planet has something they can kill me 
with, I believe I have a right to something of equal or greater lethality to 
defend myself. Not the government owning something to attempt to defend me when 
they have the budget to do so, feel like it, aren't involved in some ceremony, 
busy defending someone else, out standing in a line while a group of Jackasses 
burn me and my house or business down.

  There are numerous examples of why guns shouldn't be allowed in anyone's 
hands. There are plenty of examples of how a single private citizen has 
prevented harm with a gun.

  My bottom line is- if any person or organization has the right to use a gun 
then so should I.



  On Sat, Oct 10, 2015, 7:38 AM Tyson Burris @ Internet Communications Inc 
 wrote:

I was raised around the farm and guns.  I  was taught how to use them 
properly.  In school, we actually had a class on gun safety and usage.  (not 
required)  People are the problem and always will be.  We try to be our own 
‘gods’ but that will never work.   As Gino pointed out, human beings need to be 
controlled. Laws are only rules or guidelines.  A person with underlying issues 
to begin with will not obey laws.  Even if this country had no access to guns, 
someone with a desire to cause harm will find a way.  Drugs are illegal… how is 
that working out?  



Some of you may watch the documentary ‘drugs inc’.   Chicago is a waste 
land of gun violence right now. (mainly drug related)  A recent interview on 
the show struck me as one our biggest problems.   Two young kids dealing on the 
streets admitted they grew up without a ‘good’ parents. People on the streets 
are their family and taught them how to survive.  I won’t even get into the 
argument here, but family values have been turned upside down for years and the 
trend is up.  



These two drug dealers  statement echos the real issue here IMHO.  (many 
will disagree)  Parenting is the #1 frontline defense against so many problems. 
 If you parent good, and are fully involved with your kids’ lives a positive 
outcome should result.  



The issue I see right now is bad parenting is growing exponentially. We are 
seeing an increase of bad parents raising kids with problems.  Those kids grow 
up and do the same.  They have kids and so forth.  Some are lucky enough to 
break the trend but most don’t.



To make matters worse,  social media is a driving force behind so much 
opinion and ideas.  We are all so connected now that a person with underlying 
desires to harm (not just gun related) can easily gain access to things he/she 
never had before.  This drives the problem even further.





Tyson Burris, President 
Internet Communications Inc. 
739 Commerce Dr. 
Franklin, IN 46131 
  
317-738-0320 Daytime # 
317-412-1540 Cell/Direct # 
Online: www.surfici.net 





What can ICI do for you? 


Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP 
Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure. 
  
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the 
addressee shown. It contains information that is 
confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review, 
dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by 
unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly 
prohibited. 



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Gino Villarini
Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 6:49 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Spam:*, Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings



Freedom is not 

Re: [AFMUG] UBNT Next try

[Chuck McCown]

I can understand not being the same power at 5.2 and 5.8  but across the 5.8 
band, it should have been able to have the same power.  

That is pretty narrow banded for a modern power amplifier device.  

From: Peter Kranz 
Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 11:21 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] UBNT Next try

There is some interesting information in the Transmitter PSD chart in regards 
to OOBE limits.

“The EUT was set to transmit on the lowest, middle and highest frequencies at 
the maximum power level”

It shows using the same (25dBm) power level at 5735 and 5840 which I believe 
was not possible with the previous hardware. It looks like it supports full 
power across the band.

 

-PK

Re: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc

[CBB - Jay Fuller]

It is also a great reminder that people in other parts of the country do not 
necessarily share your views.
Also a great reminder that the founders of this country really did know what 
they were doing.
For things to happen in this country you have to AGREE...which is becoming more 
and more difficult ;)

  - Original Message - 
  From: Chuck McCown 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 11:40 AM
  Subject: [AFMUG] OT Guns etc


  This has been fun reading.

  I love this list.  Folks are smart and mostly polite and post some pretty 
  well reasoned arguments on both sides of almost any issue.  This is all the 
  social media I need.

  I did want to make a comment about the Illinois FOID card.

  I was a hostage in a bank robbery back in about 1993 in Quincy Illinois. 
  Once it was over and I got out of the bank, I  learned that a co-worker had 
  suffered some kind of stress attack and was in the hospital.  That afternoon 
  they were out of beds in some of the areas so that took him to the 5th 
  floor.  That is the psych floor.

  Then, it turned out, anyone that gets admitted to a psych ward in Illinois 
  gets reported to the FOID people.
  They revoke the FOID card.

  This guy was a big time hunter.  It just about killed him.
  He got some pretty good press and got some political help.  Hot his card 
  back in about 6 weeks.

  So, if you want to keep your FOID stay out of psych wards!

Re: [AFMUG] UBNT Next try

[Peter Kranz]

There is some interesting information in the Transmitter PSD chart in regards 
to OOBE limits.

“The EUT was set to transmit on the lowest, middle and highest frequencies at 
the maximum power level”

It shows using the same (25dBm) power level at 5735 and 5840 which I believe 
was not possible with the previous hardware. It looks like it supports full 
power across the band.

 

-PK

Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings

[Lewis Bergman]

I agree with having a test to buy a firearm. But only a competency test for
things like operation and safety. A test for things like the purpose for
user may be easily abused. Just like a driver's license, if you price
yourself untrustworthy, like DWI or in find case, felons, then rights would
be restricted.

In a free society the main deterrent should be punishment when a person
does wrong, not trying to prevent someone from doing wrong by restricting
freedom of everyone. Democracy is messy and the desire to prevent anything
bad from ever happening is an excessive restriction on freedom.

On Sat, Oct 10, 2015, 10:28 AM Mathew Howard  wrote:

> Yes, the meaning clearly was for militia to be able to defend the state,
> but it is also pretty clear that they were intended to be able to defend
> against the government, if necessary. That doesn't work if the government
> has complete control over who can bear arms.
> On Oct 10, 2015 10:06 AM, "Jaime Solorza" 
> wrote:
>
>> The 2nd Amendment was based on English version which came earlier and its
>> meaning was for militia to be able to defend state.   I don't want to get
>> into a history lesson or political debate.   But freedom and individual
>> rights do not and should over ride individual responsibility. Hell we have
>> to take tests to obtain a drivers license...it offers some  level of order
>> on the roads.  It is too easy for people in USA to but guns. Hunting is one
>> thing...you don't hunt with a hand gun or AK!!!   The wackos and lobbyists
>> for NRA and extreme groups will fight  tooth and nail any attempt to
>> regulate them citing their rights! What about the right to act responsibly
>> and live in peace.   Doesn't portent well for our children
>>
>> Jaime Solorza
>> Freedom is not the exercise to choose whatever you want.  Heck then free
>> all the child molesters! Human beings need to be controlled, that the whole
>> reasoning behind laws.  Im with Jaime and Stefan on this.
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 6:28 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>>
>>> There are many items that kill more humans than first world guns.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>>
>>> --
>>> *From: *"Stefan Englhardt" 
>>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>>> *Sent: *Friday, October 9, 2015 11:21:43 PM
>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings
>>>
>>> Looking at this with a foreign view I can't understand this "gun love"
>>> in US. It is not all about the criminals or idiots. Just look at the
>>> statistics for accidents with weapons. The only way to save lifes is to be
>>> very restrictive. If someone wants to shoot he can go to a shooting club
>>> and leave the weapon there. It is not freedom to have a gun at home. It is
>>> silly esp. with kids around.
>>> You can't avoid killing with banning weapons but you can reduce it. If I
>>> need a weapon I call for police or security.
>>>
>>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings

[Stefan Englhardt]

Countrys with weak gun control have more shot people. Simple logic in my eyes.

Nothing to say against if the majority of a country takes this into account. 
Just strange in

the eyes of a foreign citizen.

In my country you can buy a BMW and drive as fast as you think it is ok on 
highways.

this kills, too. Same arguments here. It is the freedom to drive.





Von: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] Im Auftrag von Mike Hammett
Gesendet: Samstag, 10. Oktober 2015 16:47
An: af@afmug.com
Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings



Except that most mass shootings are done with weapons that were obtained in 
circumstances that even the most strict of control laws would allow. The 
weapons painted as being so evil just plain aren't used in these situations.

Logic doesn't lead you to gun control.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



  _

From: "Darin Steffl"  >
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 8:12:08 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings

I carry a .380 pistol with me most of the time but I only own three guns 
myself. I also consider myself to have many Democratic views when it comes to 
gun policy and Republican views with taxes & business aspects.



I personally think it should be MUCH harder to purchase a firearm than it is. 
When I purchased my new glock, I ordered it online at Gander Mountain and 
walked into the store, they did a quick background check and I walked out in 10 
minutes. It was great to me as a consumer and easy. BUT, what if I was angry or 
in the heat of the moment and wanted to harm people. Now that easy gun purchase 
allowed me to walk out the same day with a deadly weapon.



I do not think our government is trying to take guns away as the crazy 
Republicans like to lie about. I do think we should have much stricter gun 
control though to keep the nutty people from having easy access. All that is 
going to do is make it take longer to purchase a legal firearm, which I am 
perfectly fine with if it prevents even one shooting death or mass shooting.



If there's other policies being proposed that can help limit access to guns, 
I'm all for it if it still allows me to purchase a pistol to carry legally and 
a shotgun to go hunting. I don't believe I should be allowed to own a machine 
gun type weapon for use at my home. Weapons like that should be allowed only at 
shooting ranges and locked up under heavy security. They do not belong at a 
residential home anywhere for sport or home protection.



So anyway, I think there are gun nuts out there that like to walk around while 
open carrying and say Obama is trying to steal all our guns. I think they're 
crazy and need a bonk on the head to come to your senses. Try acting normal and 
conceal your weapon, don't talk like a crazy gun nut and try to realize you 
don't need a machine gun.



The government's job is to protect as many citizens as possible. That means 
more laws, more enforcement, and more compliance. We can't easily identify and 
stop all people who will commit a shooting crime. We can more easily target 
guns themselves and prevent the sale of them to as many "bad" people as 
possible. For "good" and legal people who want to buy one, stop complaining 
about gun control and embrace it in order to help save lives. Gun control isn't 
meant for good people, only the bad people. You'll still be able to buy any 
weapon you "need" in order to hunt or protect your home.



On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 5:48 AM, Gino Villarini  > wrote:

Freedom is not the exercise to choose whatever you want.  Heck then free all 
the child molesters! Human beings need to be controlled, that the whole 
reasoning behind laws.  Im with Jaime and Stefan on this.



On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 6:28 AM, Mike Hammett  > wrote:

There are many items that kill more humans than first world guns.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com




  _


From: "Stefan Englhardt"  >
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, October 9, 2015 11:21:43 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings

Looking at this with a foreign view I can't understand this "gun love" in US. 
It is not all about the criminals or idiots. Just look at the statistics for 
accidents with weapons. The only way to save lifes is to be very restrictive. 
If someone wants to shoot he can go to a shooting club and leave the weapon 
there. It is not freedom to have a gun at home. It is silly esp. with kids 
around.

You can't avoid killing with banning weapons but you can reduce it. If I need a 
weapon I call for police or security.











--

Darin Steffl

Minnesota WiFi

www.mnwifi.com 

507-634-WiFi

   Like us on 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings

[Lewis Bergman]

Both parties are worthless. Democrats have Hillary who thinks she is to
important to play or email by the same rules as everyone else. Sanders is
an unapologetic socialist. The republicans have the hair, a bunch of others
who don't understand that in a democracy nobody gets their way all the time
and in the few cases where they do, it usually turns out terrible. The
great society as an example will likely be the end of the US as we know it
even though it has taken fifty years. Can't afford it.

Government can do great things when narrowly focused. Societies can do
great things when everybody else does the rest.

On Sat, Oct 10, 2015, 10:59 AM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> The debate is basically a Mexican Stand Off...I am done with it ...look at
> current political condition on all sides.Email crap to implosion of the
> Grumpy Old Party.  On a side note the disjointed actions and antics of
> Republican party are entertainment to me.  Between Bozo the clown and that
> "open mouth, insert foot" guy McCarthy it sure is funny.  As i tell my
> super right wing creationist friend...you guys are your own worst enemy.
>
> Jaime Solorza
>
> Yes, the meaning clearly was for militia to be able to defend the state,
> but it is also pretty clear that they were intended to be able to defend
> against the government, if necessary. That doesn't work if the government
> has complete control over who can bear arms.
> On Oct 10, 2015 10:06 AM, "Jaime Solorza" 
> wrote:
>
>> The 2nd Amendment was based on English version which came earlier and its
>> meaning was for militia to be able to defend state.   I don't want to get
>> into a history lesson or political debate.   But freedom and individual
>> rights do not and should over ride individual responsibility. Hell we have
>> to take tests to obtain a drivers license...it offers some  level of order
>> on the roads.  It is too easy for people in USA to but guns. Hunting is one
>> thing...you don't hunt with a hand gun or AK!!!   The wackos and lobbyists
>> for NRA and extreme groups will fight  tooth and nail any attempt to
>> regulate them citing their rights! What about the right to act responsibly
>> and live in peace.   Doesn't portent well for our children
>>
>> Jaime Solorza
>> Freedom is not the exercise to choose whatever you want.  Heck then free
>> all the child molesters! Human beings need to be controlled, that the whole
>> reasoning behind laws.  Im with Jaime and Stefan on this.
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 6:28 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>>
>>> There are many items that kill more humans than first world guns.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>>
>>> --
>>> *From: *"Stefan Englhardt" 
>>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>>> *Sent: *Friday, October 9, 2015 11:21:43 PM
>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings
>>>
>>> Looking at this with a foreign view I can't understand this "gun love"
>>> in US. It is not all about the criminals or idiots. Just look at the
>>> statistics for accidents with weapons. The only way to save lifes is to be
>>> very restrictive. If someone wants to shoot he can go to a shooting club
>>> and leave the weapon there. It is not freedom to have a gun at home. It is
>>> silly esp. with kids around.
>>> You can't avoid killing with banning weapons but you can reduce it. If I
>>> need a weapon I call for police or security.
>>>
>>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review

[Daniel White]

Read the book.  Much more explanation to the science.



Thank you,



Daniel White

  afmu...@gmail.com

Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590

Skype: danieldwhite
Social:   LinkedIn:
 Twitter



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Friday, October 9, 2015 10:29 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review



SPOILERS

Mars is -55c, one would think those potatoes would be useless in minutes.
Even if they took an hour, it was hours before he sealed the lab.

Untethered was driving me nuts.  So dumb.  Bad for science and the movie.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Oct 10, 2015 1:19 AM, "CBB - Jay Fuller"  > wrote:



the "convertible" didn't throw you?  It did mei mean, really?  Now you
just KNEW halfway through that launch the tent tarp would come offi
mean, you just knew it.



then again they pointed out the very thin atmosphereand stuff usually
burns up on re-entry, not taking off.



but still - are you kidding me?

- Original Message -

From: Chuck McCown 

To: af@afmug.com 

Sent: Monday, October 05, 2015 9:46 AM

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review



Minor spoiler alert...





The few complaints are:

Hermes EVA untethered.  Not gonna happen.



Standing in a docking port untethered waiting for a cargo shipment.  Not
gonna happen.



Hermes crew being able to calculate dynamic intercept and explosive
decompression thrust issues in seemingly minutes.  Perhaps computers are
that good in that year but the guy on earth had to go physically plug into a
supercomputer to do the same thing and it seemingly took him several days...
(that would not happen either, the physically plugging into the
supercomputer)



Old lander having a data bus that could interconnect with new stuff.
Perhaps.  Maybe there is some kind of old NASA standard data bus like
RS-232.  Might could have happened.



Antenna on old lander looked too small to do the trick. I am thinking if
that was a true replica, it was probably talking to an orbiting relay
spacecraft back when it was still working.



Video links on Hermes and on Mars seemed to be interlaced analog video
Come on!  Analog video artifacts too when the power was blinking.  We all
understand pixilation, that is what you would truly be seeing.



Hydrazine on iridium makes steam, not hydrogen.  But even better for making
water.  Does not require a flame.



Ironman thrust vectors would probably not look like what we saw.



Potatoes would not instantly freeze so hard they would die.  Takes time for
the heat to leave them.  I think he could have quickly saved a few viable
specimens.



I positively loved the hexadecimal / ASCII  pointer system...  That stroked
some dormant but very favorite gray cells in my noggin.



I wished he had scavenged some of those larger parabolic antennas and
rigged up a high bandwidth link with earth.  They could have use the dishes
at Goldstone, Canberra and Madrid to talk to him half of each day.  (Of
course with the delay).  I imagine he would have had to track the earth so
that may have been pretty difficult to do for any length of time.



From: Patrick Leary 

Sent: Monday, October 05, 2015 6:12 AM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review



My wife, two teen daughters and I saw Martian this weekend. It was one of
the best movies I’ve seen in a very long time and I’m a movie freak. Perfect
casting and even better script. Matt Damon had a tough job carrying the film
in his scenes, but his use of the station video-based report filing enables
us to get more entertaining dialogue from him (as opposed to the slightly
more I’m-going-crazy-talking-to-myself lines from Tom Hanks in Castaway
talking to “Wilber”).



Throughout the movie Damon is friggin’ great (but those of us who like in
the Bourne movies know his ability to nail a role without coming across as a
cartoon character already knew this). The science seemed just plausible
enough for non-scientists.



Not enough credit in the reviews will be given to the Nasa team cast on
earth, but without it, the movie would have dragged and feeling their
urgency and suspense builds our own.



Just go see it. I cannot imagine any WISP not loving this movie, as it
takes one’s inner geek and shows us how to turn it into total badassery.



Patrick Leary, Telrad

727-501-3735 



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com  ] On
Behalf Of Jaime Solorza
Sent: Monday, October 5, 2015 12:26 AM
To: Animal Farm  >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review



Ha

On Oct 4, 2015 9:00 PM, "Glen Waldrop"  

Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings

[Lewis Bergman]

I think you give other countries more credit than they deserve. I'll argue,
all things considered, we are the least broken country in existence.

On Sat, Oct 10, 2015, 3:39 PM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> Logic went out years ago.  There is iron in the words Patrick wrote no
> paper can hold...(apologies to Ten Bears)...
>
> Jaime Solorza
> On Oct 10, 2015 2:32 PM, "Mathew Howard"  wrote:
>
>> What's right for one country, isn't necessarily right for another. While
>> I would love to be able to drive as fast I think is safe, knowing how the
>> typical American drives, I'd guess that it would be far more deadly here
>> than in Germany. I suspect the same logic applies to other stuff to some
>> extent.
>> On Oct 10, 2015 11:05 AM, "Stefan Englhardt"  wrote:
>>
>>> Countrys with weak gun control have more shot people. Simple logic in my
>>> eyes.
>>>
>>> Nothing to say against if the majority of a country takes this into
>>> account. Just strange in
>>>
>>> the eyes of a foreign citizen.
>>>
>>> In my country you can buy a BMW and drive as fast as you think it is ok
>>> on highways.
>>>
>>> this kills, too. Same arguments here. It is the freedom to drive.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Von:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *Im Auftrag von *Mike Hammett
>>> *Gesendet:* Samstag, 10. Oktober 2015 16:47
>>> *An:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Betreff:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Except that most mass shootings are done with weapons that were obtained
>>> in circumstances that even the most strict of control laws would allow. The
>>> weapons painted as being so evil just plain aren't used in these situations.
>>>
>>> Logic doesn't lead you to gun control.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> *From: *"Darin Steffl" 
>>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>>> *Sent: *Saturday, October 10, 2015 8:12:08 AM
>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings
>>>
>>> I carry a .380 pistol with me most of the time but I only own three guns
>>> myself. I also consider myself to have many Democratic views when it comes
>>> to gun policy and Republican views with taxes & business aspects.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I personally think it should be MUCH harder to purchase a firearm than
>>> it is. When I purchased my new glock, I ordered it online at Gander
>>> Mountain and walked into the store, they did a quick background check and I
>>> walked out in 10 minutes. It was great to me as a consumer and easy. BUT,
>>> what if I was angry or in the heat of the moment and wanted to harm people.
>>> Now that easy gun purchase allowed me to walk out the same day with a
>>> deadly weapon.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I do not think our government is trying to take guns away as the crazy
>>> Republicans like to lie about. I do think we should have much stricter gun
>>> control though to keep the nutty people from having easy access. All that
>>> is going to do is make it take longer to purchase a legal firearm, which I
>>> am perfectly fine with if it prevents even one shooting death or mass
>>> shooting.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If there's other policies being proposed that can help limit access to
>>> guns, I'm all for it if it still allows me to purchase a pistol to carry
>>> legally and a shotgun to go hunting. I don't believe I should be allowed to
>>> own a machine gun type weapon for use at my home. Weapons like that should
>>> be allowed only at shooting ranges and locked up under heavy security. They
>>> do not belong at a residential home anywhere for sport or home protection.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So anyway, I think there are gun nuts out there that like to walk around
>>> while open carrying and say Obama is trying to steal all our guns. I think
>>> they're crazy and need a bonk on the head to come to your senses. Try
>>> acting normal and conceal your weapon, don't talk like a crazy gun nut and
>>> try to realize you don't need a machine gun.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The government's job is to protect as many citizens as possible. That
>>> means more laws, more enforcement, and more compliance. We can't easily
>>> identify and stop all people who will commit a shooting crime. We can more
>>> easily target guns themselves and prevent the sale of them to as many "bad"
>>> people as possible. For "good" and legal people who want to buy one, stop
>>> complaining about gun control and embrace it in order to help save lives.
>>> Gun control isn't meant for good people, only the bad people. You'll still
>>> be able to buy any weapon you "need" in order to hunt or protect your home.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 5:48 AM, Gino Villarini 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Freedom is not the exercise to choose whatever you want.  Heck then free
>>> all the child molesters! Human beings need to be controlled, that the whole
>>> reasoning behind laws.  Im with Jaime and Stefan on 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings

[Jay Weekley]

Statistically, you're more likely to be killed by a drunk or distracted 
driver than someone with a gun.


Mathew Howard wrote:
Oh, I agree... the world would be better if we could get rid of bad 
drivers. I have to agree with what Patrick said, cops should focus 
more on ticketing bad drivers, and not so much on randomly giving out 
tickets on highways where everyone (including cops...) speeds.


On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 6:04 PM, Glen Waldrop > wrote:


I dunno...

I think the world would be a better place if bad drivers weren't
allowed to drive. They need to retest or something every decade or
so, maybe just once they get more than one violation. I don't
know, but too many people drive like idiots just to get to the red
light one second faster than the next guy. Maybe they just all
need to get off their butts and build a race car, get it out of
their system.

- Original Message -
*From:* Mathew Howard 
*To:* af 
*Sent:* Saturday, October 10, 2015 5:54 PM
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings

Yes... realistically, the same standards wouldn't work here.
If we had the same requirements to be able to drive, half the
population wouldn't have any way to get to work (or wherever
it is they need to go) everyday. Thousands of lives would be
saved every year from the reduction in traffic deaths, but I'm
pretty sure there would be very, very little support from
anyone for changing our driving standards to something similar
to what Germany has.

On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 5:36 PM, Patrick Leary
>
wrote:

I lived in Germany. There, people pay good money to earn
the privilege to drive. You must be 18 and it costs well
over a grand. As a result, German drivers are predictable.
You’ll never see a German driver passing on the right.
You’ll never see a German driver holding up traffic in a
left or even middle lane. You won’t see a German change
lanes without using their indicator. And of course,
Germans respect that government has a job and is not the
enemy, so they don’t reject taxation for infrastructure.
As a result, Germany has MUCH better roads than we do.
Seriously. The German autobahn is twice as thick and
better banked. To be fair, we have thousands of miles more
of Interstate, so we do have a harder job. Still. Also,
you can’t drive a jalopy in Germany, which has strict
inspection rules, that even include aesthetics, but the
emphasis is on safe functioning.

We can’t realistically have the same regime though, we
have much larger distances and lots of backroads and farms
and country roads. I think we don’t need the same standard
of road, but we do need roads that are well-maintained,
and we need much better driving skills. Our cops should
focus less on cherry-picking speed traps (many areas here
in FL are nationally famous for bullshit speed traps –
e.g. Waldo, FL) and more on ticketing bad drivers.

Driver etiquette is the real differentiator between the
U.S. and Germany. A German won’t say, “I’m driving the
speed limit so screw you, go around.” Germans, like other
Europeans, understand they have a civic responsibility.
Too many Americans reject civic responsibility as being
“against freedom” and “un-American.” The closest parallel
in the U.S. to how the Germans behave is the Mormon
population, which places a very high premium on civic
responsibility, public dignity, decency, the idea of body
politic as one functioning unit. The concept of the Hive
(ergo, Chuck’s Beehive).

-Patrick

*On Behalf Of *Mathew Howard
*Sent:* Saturday, October 10, 2015 4:32 PM
*To:* af >
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings

What's right for one country, isn't necessarily right for
another. While I would love to be able to drive as fast I
think is safe, knowing how the typical American drives,
I'd guess that it would be far more deadly here than in
Germany. I suspect the same logic applies to other stuff
to some extent.

On Oct 10, 2015 11:05 AM, "Stefan Englhardt"
> wrote:

Countrys with weak gun control have more shot people.

Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings

[Mathew Howard]

What's right for one country, isn't necessarily right for another. While I
would love to be able to drive as fast I think is safe, knowing how the
typical American drives, I'd guess that it would be far more deadly here
than in Germany. I suspect the same logic applies to other stuff to some
extent.
On Oct 10, 2015 11:05 AM, "Stefan Englhardt"  wrote:

> Countrys with weak gun control have more shot people. Simple logic in my
> eyes.
>
> Nothing to say against if the majority of a country takes this into
> account. Just strange in
>
> the eyes of a foreign citizen.
>
> In my country you can buy a BMW and drive as fast as you think it is ok on
> highways.
>
> this kills, too. Same arguments here. It is the freedom to drive.
>
>
>
>
>
> *Von:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *Im Auftrag von *Mike Hammett
> *Gesendet:* Samstag, 10. Oktober 2015 16:47
> *An:* af@afmug.com
> *Betreff:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings
>
>
>
> Except that most mass shootings are done with weapons that were obtained
> in circumstances that even the most strict of control laws would allow. The
> weapons painted as being so evil just plain aren't used in these situations.
>
> Logic doesn't lead you to gun control.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
> --
>
> *From: *"Darin Steffl" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Saturday, October 10, 2015 8:12:08 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings
>
> I carry a .380 pistol with me most of the time but I only own three guns
> myself. I also consider myself to have many Democratic views when it comes
> to gun policy and Republican views with taxes & business aspects.
>
>
>
> I personally think it should be MUCH harder to purchase a firearm than it
> is. When I purchased my new glock, I ordered it online at Gander Mountain
> and walked into the store, they did a quick background check and I walked
> out in 10 minutes. It was great to me as a consumer and easy. BUT, what if
> I was angry or in the heat of the moment and wanted to harm people. Now
> that easy gun purchase allowed me to walk out the same day with a deadly
> weapon.
>
>
>
> I do not think our government is trying to take guns away as the crazy
> Republicans like to lie about. I do think we should have much stricter gun
> control though to keep the nutty people from having easy access. All that
> is going to do is make it take longer to purchase a legal firearm, which I
> am perfectly fine with if it prevents even one shooting death or mass
> shooting.
>
>
>
> If there's other policies being proposed that can help limit access to
> guns, I'm all for it if it still allows me to purchase a pistol to carry
> legally and a shotgun to go hunting. I don't believe I should be allowed to
> own a machine gun type weapon for use at my home. Weapons like that should
> be allowed only at shooting ranges and locked up under heavy security. They
> do not belong at a residential home anywhere for sport or home protection.
>
>
>
> So anyway, I think there are gun nuts out there that like to walk around
> while open carrying and say Obama is trying to steal all our guns. I think
> they're crazy and need a bonk on the head to come to your senses. Try
> acting normal and conceal your weapon, don't talk like a crazy gun nut and
> try to realize you don't need a machine gun.
>
>
>
> The government's job is to protect as many citizens as possible. That
> means more laws, more enforcement, and more compliance. We can't easily
> identify and stop all people who will commit a shooting crime. We can more
> easily target guns themselves and prevent the sale of them to as many "bad"
> people as possible. For "good" and legal people who want to buy one, stop
> complaining about gun control and embrace it in order to help save lives.
> Gun control isn't meant for good people, only the bad people. You'll still
> be able to buy any weapon you "need" in order to hunt or protect your home.
>
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 5:48 AM, Gino Villarini 
> wrote:
>
> Freedom is not the exercise to choose whatever you want.  Heck then free
> all the child molesters! Human beings need to be controlled, that the whole
> reasoning behind laws.  Im with Jaime and Stefan on this.
>
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 6:28 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
> There are many items that kill more humans than first world guns.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
> --
>
> *From: *"Stefan Englhardt" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Friday, October 9, 2015 11:21:43 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings
>
> Looking at this with a foreign view I can't understand this "gun love" in
> US. It is not all about the criminals or idiots. Just look at the
> statistics for accidents with weapons. The only way to save lifes is to be
> 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings

[David Milholen]

Several years ago i was at camp robinson firing range to qualify our 
young soldiers and as weapons were being handed out one soldier was 
denied due to
criminal check that had just came into light and he was not allowed to 
train with the rest of us until his name was totally cleared to hold a 
live weapon during

a qualification training exorcise.
  These same checks and restrictions could be implemented to help with 
better control of who should be allowed to carry a weapon for safety or 
have one for home defense.
As I was trained on lots of weapon systems. One of the advantages of 
being a good shot is getting to have the most powerful urban scope and 
all the trimmings for your
primary weapon as the M4. Others that did not get a high enough score to 
get one of these had to settle for red dot or iron site. The ones that 
could not shoot to even make

marksman was issued a shotgun.
 Of course different units handled this differently.



On 10/10/2015 3:01 PM, Patrick Leary wrote:


Gun owner here of a very nice S MP40 with grip laser, and a smaller 
9MM, and unlike most on this list I’m a veteran too professionally 
trained in a variety of weapons systems. That said, my views are not 
what one might expect because above all I believe in rationality. 
Absolutism, like literalism, is another name for extremism and such 
people have an aversion to science and reason.


We are the only country so lacking in judgment, so unable to grasp the 
concept of proportionality (reacting to real risk, versus chicken shit 
fear) that we’ll spend trillions of dollars, lead thousands of our own 
to death, and maim and/or inflict PTSD upon tens of thousands to stop 
“terrorism,” when statistically the real threat of being impacted by 
terror is less likely than breaking your hip in the shower. Meanwhile, 
guns improperly used or otherwise used for indefensible violence have 
killed more people in the past 40 years than all our wars combined 
since the birth of the nation and we say there’s nothing we can do 
because “freedom.”


We are a country whose population is chronically unable to process 
fact, lives in perpetual fear of their neighbors, nor can think 
critically on a great many truly existential problems.


Finally, I have a CCP, but I don’t unless I were out hiking or 
motorcycling out somewhere remotely. Of all the reasons the conceal 
carry, the worst argument is because one is afraid of everything and 
everyone around them. Civilized societies simply don’t do this. That’s 
not a debatable point. Why so many yearn for us to be like Mogadishu 
instead of Copenhagen is beyond me. Why, so you can blast away in a 
busy parking lot at a truck fleeing a Home Depot driven by a guy who 
shoplifted? Yay! How safe are we!


Patrick Leary

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jaime Solorza
*Sent:* Saturday, October 10, 2015 12:00 PM
*To:* Animal Farm 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings

The debate is basically a Mexican Stand Off...I am done with it 
...look at current political condition on all sides. Email crap to 
implosion of the Grumpy Old Party.  On a side note the disjointed 
actions and antics of Republican party are entertainment to me.  
Between Bozo the clown and that "open mouth, insert foot" guy McCarthy 
it sure is funny.  As i tell my super right wing creationist 
friend...you guys are your own worst enemy.


Jaime Solorza

Yes, the meaning clearly was for militia to be able to defend the 
state, but it is also pretty clear that they were intended to be able 
to defend against the government, if necessary. That doesn't work if 
the government has complete control over who can bear arms.


On Oct 10, 2015 10:06 AM, "Jaime Solorza" > wrote:


The 2nd Amendment was based on English version which came earlier
and its meaning was for militia to be able to defend state.   I
don't want to get into a history lesson or political debate.   But
freedom and individual rights do not and should over ride
individual responsibility. Hell we have to take tests to obtain a
drivers license...it offers some  level of order on the roads.  It
is too easy for people in USA to but guns. Hunting is one
thing...you don't hunt with a hand gun or AK!!!   The wackos and
lobbyists for NRA and extreme groups will fight  tooth and nail
any attempt to regulate them citing their rights! What about the
right to act responsibly and live in peace.   Doesn't portent well
for our children

Jaime Solorza

Freedom is not the exercise to choose whatever you want.  Heck
then free all the child molesters! Human beings need to be
controlled, that the whole reasoning behind laws.  Im with Jaime
and Stefan on this.

On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 6:28 AM, Mike Hammett > wrote:

There are many items that kill more humans than 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings

[Patrick Leary]

I love me some U.S.A. and I’ve driven the breadth of the country one almost 
every east/west and north/south interstate. The only state I’m missing spending 
the night in is Alaska (damn it!),

But, oh boy I’m not Pollyanna or reflexively jingoistic, so Lewis, we’d could 
debate that. 30 years ago I might have agreed, but no more. We are number one, 
but only in some of the worst metrics that one judges a civilized nation. In 
the important things, we’ve fallen behind considerably.

You know we’ve fallen hard when one is more likely to advance themselves 
economically in France than the U.S. now. So says even the Heritage Foundation 
(Gingrich-founded), as well as Pulitzer-awarded Politifact.

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2013/dec/19/steven-rattner/it-easier-obtain-american-dream-europe/

And let’s not even get into the amount we pay for healthcare vs. outcome, 
illiteracy, infant mortality, incarceration, etc….


-  Patrick

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Lewis Bergman
Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 5:11 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings


I think you give other countries more credit than they deserve. I'll argue, all 
things considered, we are the least broken country in existence.

On Sat, Oct 10, 2015, 3:39 PM Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:

Logic went out years ago.  There is iron in the words Patrick wrote no paper 
can hold...(apologies to Ten Bears)...

Jaime Solorza
On Oct 10, 2015 2:32 PM, "Mathew Howard" 
> wrote:

What's right for one country, isn't necessarily right for another. While I 
would love to be able to drive as fast I think is safe, knowing how the typical 
American drives, I'd guess that it would be far more deadly here than in 
Germany. I suspect the same logic applies to other stuff to some extent.
On Oct 10, 2015 11:05 AM, "Stefan Englhardt" 
> wrote:
Countrys with weak gun control have more shot people. Simple logic in my eyes.
Nothing to say against if the majority of a country takes this into account. 
Just strange in
the eyes of a foreign citizen.
In my country you can buy a BMW and drive as fast as you think it is ok on 
highways.
this kills, too. Same arguments here. It is the freedom to drive.


Von: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] Im Auftrag 
von Mike Hammett
Gesendet: Samstag, 10. Oktober 2015 16:47
An: af@afmug.com
Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings

Except that most mass shootings are done with weapons that were obtained in 
circumstances that even the most strict of control laws would allow. The 
weapons painted as being so evil just plain aren't used in these situations.

Logic doesn't lead you to gun control.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


From: "Darin Steffl" >
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 8:12:08 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings
I carry a .380 pistol with me most of the time but I only own three guns 
myself. I also consider myself to have many Democratic views when it comes to 
gun policy and Republican views with taxes & business aspects.

I personally think it should be MUCH harder to purchase a firearm than it is. 
When I purchased my new glock, I ordered it online at Gander Mountain and 
walked into the store, they did a quick background check and I walked out in 10 
minutes. It was great to me as a consumer and easy. BUT, what if I was angry or 
in the heat of the moment and wanted to harm people. Now that easy gun purchase 
allowed me to walk out the same day with a deadly weapon.

I do not think our government is trying to take guns away as the crazy 
Republicans like to lie about. I do think we should have much stricter gun 
control though to keep the nutty people from having easy access. All that is 
going to do is make it take longer to purchase a legal firearm, which I am 
perfectly fine with if it prevents even one shooting death or mass shooting.

If there's other policies being proposed that can help limit access to guns, 
I'm all for it if it still allows me to purchase a pistol to carry legally and 
a shotgun to go hunting. I don't believe I should be allowed to own a machine 
gun type weapon for use at my home. Weapons like that should be allowed only at 
shooting ranges and locked up under heavy security. They do not belong at a 
residential home anywhere for sport or home protection.

So anyway, I think there are gun nuts out there that like to walk around while 
open carrying and say Obama is trying to steal all our guns. I think they're 
crazy and need a bonk on the head to come to your senses. Try acting normal and 
conceal your weapon, don't talk like a crazy gun nut and try to 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings

[Ken Hohhof]

Interesting article (spoiler alert – contains actual facts):
http://www.vox.com/a/mass-shootings-sandy-hook

Some tidbits from the article:

- there are more gun suicides than gun homicides in America
- mass shootings aren’t getting more common – and are a tiny share of all 
shootings
- a tiny fraction of gun violence is committed by the mentally ill

Oh, and BTW, suicide attempts usually fail, and the person gets treatment.  
Except suicide attempts with firearms which have a high success rate.  Like my 
brother in law who blew his brains out in the kitchen for his family to find.


From: Mathew Howard 
Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 7:37 PM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings

I thought it was interesting when I drove to Chicago a few weeks ago, that 
everyone seemed to drive faster on i90 in the 55mph construction zones than 
they do where it's 70mph...


I don't think anyone has too much of a problem with keeping the real crazies 
from having guns, but I don't really see how it would be possible to stop most 
of these guys without taking rights away from all of us. I personally don't 
want to live in a country where people can lose their rights just because 
someone thinks that they're a little odd... which is about all that anyone had 
to say about most of these mass shooters before the fact, as far as I've seen. 
Even if you were required to take some kind of test and get a license to buy a 
gun, I would bet most of these guys would've passed any reasonable test.


On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 6:53 PM, George Skorup  wrote:

  We have this in Illinois. You get a ticket, then you have to retake at least 
the written test when you go to renew your license. I haven't had more than one 
ticket in 12 years or so, and that was just seatbelt as I went a block from the 
gas station back to the office. And apparently that doesn't count as one of the 
retest requirements, but the last time I went to renew, I was randomly selected 
for the written test. I missed one question, some stupid sign.

  I have astigmatism and I never, ever drive without correction.

  Yes, I do the speed limit, and if other drivers don't like it, then they can 
go around. If you ride my ass, I let off the gas. Go ahead, hit me and see what 
happens.

  What's really disgusting are the semi trucks passing me when I'm doing the 
speed limit. Those assholes need to be stripped of their CDLs. During 
construction on I55 by me, there were something like 10 people killed by truck 
drivers breaking the speed limit and not paying attention.

  People do stupid things with vehicles the same as they do stupid things with 
guns, or knives, or baseball bats, or drugs, or you name it. Forrest Gump said 
it best, "stupid is as stupid does." Crazy is a different story, but I have my 
rights and they have theirs as well. If anyone comes up with a good solution to 
the crazies, I'm sure reasonable people will listen and debate. If only an 
accusation leads to someone's rights being stripped without due process, that 
ain't gonna fly with me. And please stop with the nonsense that the NRA and 
Republicans are all hardliners on this. You're hearing that from the media that 
only quote the fringe because it's their agenda. Guns aren't going away, so 
forget about that.


  On 10/10/2015 6:04 PM, Glen Waldrop wrote:

I dunno...

I think the world would be a better place if bad drivers weren't allowed to 
drive. They need to retest or something every decade or so, maybe just once 
they get more than one violation. I don't know, but too many people drive like 
idiots just to get to the red light one second faster than the next guy. Maybe 
they just all need to get off their butts and build a race car, get it out of 
their system.



  - Original Message - 
  From: Mathew Howard 
  To: af 
  Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 5:54 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings

  Yes... realistically, the same standards wouldn't work here. If we had 
the same requirements to be able to drive, half the population wouldn't have 
any way to get to work (or wherever it is they need to go) everyday. Thousands 
of lives would be saved every year from the reduction in traffic deaths, but 
I'm pretty sure there would be very, very little support from anyone for 
changing our driving standards to something similar to what Germany has.


  On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 5:36 PM, Patrick Leary  
wrote:

I lived in Germany. There, people pay good money to earn the privilege 
to drive. You must be 18 and it costs well over a grand. As a result, German 
drivers are predictable. You’ll never see a German driver passing on the right. 
You’ll never see a German driver holding up traffic in a left or even middle 
lane. You won’t see a German change lanes without using their indicator. And of 
course, Germans respect that government has a job and is not the enemy, so they 
don’t 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings

[Lewis Bergman]

Yea, the army is funny.

On Sat, Oct 10, 2015, 4:13 PM David Milholen  wrote:

> Several years ago i was at camp robinson firing range to qualify our young
> soldiers and as weapons were being handed out one soldier was denied due to
> criminal check that had just came into light and he was not allowed to
> train with the rest of us until his name was totally cleared to hold a live
> weapon during
> a qualification training exorcise.
>   These same checks and restrictions could be implemented to help with
> better control of who should be allowed to carry a weapon for safety or
> have one for home defense.
> As I was trained on lots of weapon systems. One of the advantages of being
> a good shot is getting to have the most powerful urban scope and all the
> trimmings for your
> primary weapon as the M4. Others that did not get a high enough score to
> get one of these had to settle for red dot or iron site. The ones that
> could not shoot to even make
> marksman was issued a shotgun.
>  Of course different units handled this differently.
>
>
>
>
> On 10/10/2015 3:01 PM, Patrick Leary wrote:
>
> Gun owner here of a very nice S MP40 with grip laser, and a smaller 9MM,
> and unlike most on this list I’m a veteran too professionally trained in a
> variety of weapons systems. That said, my views are not what one might
> expect because above all I believe in rationality. Absolutism, like
> literalism, is another name for extremism and such people have an aversion
> to science and reason.
>
>
>
> We are the only country so lacking in judgment, so unable to grasp the
> concept of proportionality (reacting to real risk, versus chicken shit
> fear) that we’ll spend trillions of dollars, lead thousands of our own to
> death, and maim and/or inflict PTSD upon tens of thousands to stop
> “terrorism,” when statistically the real threat of being impacted by terror
> is less likely than breaking your hip in the shower. Meanwhile, guns
> improperly used or otherwise used for indefensible violence have killed
> more people in the past 40 years than all our wars combined since the birth
> of the nation and we say there’s nothing we can do because “freedom.”
>
>
>
> We are a country whose population is chronically unable to process fact,
> lives in perpetual fear of their neighbors, nor can think critically on a
> great many truly existential problems.
>
>
>
> Finally, I have a CCP, but I don’t unless I were out hiking or
> motorcycling out somewhere remotely. Of all the reasons the conceal carry,
> the worst argument is because one is afraid of everything and everyone
> around them. Civilized societies simply don’t do this. That’s not a
> debatable point. Why so many yearn for us to be like Mogadishu instead of
> Copenhagen is beyond me. Why, so you can blast away in a busy parking lot
> at a truck fleeing a Home Depot driven by a guy who shoplifted? Yay! How
> safe are we!
>
>
>
> Patrick Leary
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Jaime Solorza
>
>
> *Sent:* Saturday, October 10, 2015 12:00 PM
> *To:* Animal Farm  
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings
>
>
>
> The debate is basically a Mexican Stand Off...I am done with it ...look at
> current political condition on all sides.Email crap to implosion of the
> Grumpy Old Party.  On a side note the disjointed actions and antics of
> Republican party are entertainment to me.  Between Bozo the clown and that
> "open mouth, insert foot" guy McCarthy it sure is funny.  As i tell my
> super right wing creationist friend...you guys are your own worst enemy.
>
> Jaime Solorza
>
> Yes, the meaning clearly was for militia to be able to defend the state,
> but it is also pretty clear that they were intended to be able to defend
> against the government, if necessary. That doesn't work if the government
> has complete control over who can bear arms.
>
> On Oct 10, 2015 10:06 AM, "Jaime Solorza" 
> wrote:
>
> The 2nd Amendment was based on English version which came earlier and its
> meaning was for militia to be able to defend state.   I don't want to get
> into a history lesson or political debate.   But freedom and individual
> rights do not and should over ride individual responsibility. Hell we have
> to take tests to obtain a drivers license...it offers some  level of order
> on the roads.  It is too easy for people in USA to but guns. Hunting is one
> thing...you don't hunt with a hand gun or AK!!!   The wackos and lobbyists
> for NRA and extreme groups will fight  tooth and nail any attempt to
> regulate them citing their rights! What about the right to act responsibly
> and live in peace.   Doesn't portent well for our children
>
> Jaime Solorza
>
> Freedom is not the exercise to choose whatever you want.  Heck then free
> all the child molesters! Human beings need to be controlled, that the whole
> reasoning behind laws.  Im with Jaime 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings

[Patrick Leary]

Dang, forgot it again

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2013/dec/19/steven-rattner/it-easier-obtain-american-dream-europe/

Patrick Leary, Telrad
727-501-3735

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Lewis Bergman
Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 5:11 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings


I think you give other countries more credit than they deserve. I'll argue, all 
things considered, we are the least broken country in existence.

On Sat, Oct 10, 2015, 3:39 PM Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:

Logic went out years ago.  There is iron in the words Patrick wrote no paper 
can hold...(apologies to Ten Bears)...

Jaime Solorza
On Oct 10, 2015 2:32 PM, "Mathew Howard" 
> wrote:

What's right for one country, isn't necessarily right for another. While I 
would love to be able to drive as fast I think is safe, knowing how the typical 
American drives, I'd guess that it would be far more deadly here than in 
Germany. I suspect the same logic applies to other stuff to some extent.
On Oct 10, 2015 11:05 AM, "Stefan Englhardt" 
> wrote:
Countrys with weak gun control have more shot people. Simple logic in my eyes.
Nothing to say against if the majority of a country takes this into account. 
Just strange in
the eyes of a foreign citizen.
In my country you can buy a BMW and drive as fast as you think it is ok on 
highways.
this kills, too. Same arguments here. It is the freedom to drive.


Von: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] Im Auftrag 
von Mike Hammett
Gesendet: Samstag, 10. Oktober 2015 16:47
An: af@afmug.com
Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings

Except that most mass shootings are done with weapons that were obtained in 
circumstances that even the most strict of control laws would allow. The 
weapons painted as being so evil just plain aren't used in these situations.

Logic doesn't lead you to gun control.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


From: "Darin Steffl" >
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 8:12:08 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings
I carry a .380 pistol with me most of the time but I only own three guns 
myself. I also consider myself to have many Democratic views when it comes to 
gun policy and Republican views with taxes & business aspects.

I personally think it should be MUCH harder to purchase a firearm than it is. 
When I purchased my new glock, I ordered it online at Gander Mountain and 
walked into the store, they did a quick background check and I walked out in 10 
minutes. It was great to me as a consumer and easy. BUT, what if I was angry or 
in the heat of the moment and wanted to harm people. Now that easy gun purchase 
allowed me to walk out the same day with a deadly weapon.

I do not think our government is trying to take guns away as the crazy 
Republicans like to lie about. I do think we should have much stricter gun 
control though to keep the nutty people from having easy access. All that is 
going to do is make it take longer to purchase a legal firearm, which I am 
perfectly fine with if it prevents even one shooting death or mass shooting.

If there's other policies being proposed that can help limit access to guns, 
I'm all for it if it still allows me to purchase a pistol to carry legally and 
a shotgun to go hunting. I don't believe I should be allowed to own a machine 
gun type weapon for use at my home. Weapons like that should be allowed only at 
shooting ranges and locked up under heavy security. They do not belong at a 
residential home anywhere for sport or home protection.

So anyway, I think there are gun nuts out there that like to walk around while 
open carrying and say Obama is trying to steal all our guns. I think they're 
crazy and need a bonk on the head to come to your senses. Try acting normal and 
conceal your weapon, don't talk like a crazy gun nut and try to realize you 
don't need a machine gun.

The government's job is to protect as many citizens as possible. That means 
more laws, more enforcement, and more compliance. We can't easily identify and 
stop all people who will commit a shooting crime. We can more easily target 
guns themselves and prevent the sale of them to as many "bad" people as 
possible. For "good" and legal people who want to buy one, stop complaining 
about gun control and embrace it in order to help save lives. Gun control isn't 
meant for good people, only the bad people. You'll still be able to buy any 
weapon you "need" in order to hunt or protect your home.

On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 5:48 AM, Gino Villarini 
> wrote:
Freedom is not the exercise to choose whatever you 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings

[Jaime Solorza]

Still like Mitchell and now Anne Hillerman for fiction.  I need to finish
Demailey book on Nierharts Black Elk Speaks version from Lakota
perspective.   Lots of misconception in that book.
Jaime Solorza

I love me some Ten Bears. I wear a “bear” ring, but it’s Navajo, not
Comanche. Best book I have read lately is “Empire of the Summer Moon. The
Story of Sarah Parker and Quanah Parker.” Read that. Comanche scared the
bejesus out of everyone.



Patrick Leary, Telrad

727-501-3735



*From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jaime Solorza
*Sent:* Saturday, October 10, 2015 4:39 PM
*To:* Animal Farm 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings



Logic went out years ago.  There is iron in the words Patrick wrote no
paper can hold...(apologies to Ten Bears)...

Jaime Solorza

On Oct 10, 2015 2:32 PM, "Mathew Howard"  wrote:

What's right for one country, isn't necessarily right for another. While I
would love to be able to drive as fast I think is safe, knowing how the
typical American drives, I'd guess that it would be far more deadly here
than in Germany. I suspect the same logic applies to other stuff to some
extent.

On Oct 10, 2015 11:05 AM, "Stefan Englhardt"  wrote:

Countrys with weak gun control have more shot people. Simple logic in my
eyes.

Nothing to say against if the majority of a country takes this into
account. Just strange in

the eyes of a foreign citizen.

In my country you can buy a BMW and drive as fast as you think it is ok on
highways.

this kills, too. Same arguments here. It is the freedom to drive.





*Von:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *Im Auftrag von *Mike Hammett
*Gesendet:* Samstag, 10. Oktober 2015 16:47
*An:* af@afmug.com
*Betreff:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings



Except that most mass shootings are done with weapons that were obtained in
circumstances that even the most strict of control laws would allow. The
weapons painted as being so evil just plain aren't used in these situations.

Logic doesn't lead you to gun control.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


--

*From: *"Darin Steffl" 
*To: *af@afmug.com
*Sent: *Saturday, October 10, 2015 8:12:08 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings

I carry a .380 pistol with me most of the time but I only own three guns
myself. I also consider myself to have many Democratic views when it comes
to gun policy and Republican views with taxes & business aspects.



I personally think it should be MUCH harder to purchase a firearm than it
is. When I purchased my new glock, I ordered it online at Gander Mountain
and walked into the store, they did a quick background check and I walked
out in 10 minutes. It was great to me as a consumer and easy. BUT, what if
I was angry or in the heat of the moment and wanted to harm people. Now
that easy gun purchase allowed me to walk out the same day with a deadly
weapon.



I do not think our government is trying to take guns away as the crazy
Republicans like to lie about. I do think we should have much stricter gun
control though to keep the nutty people from having easy access. All that
is going to do is make it take longer to purchase a legal firearm, which I
am perfectly fine with if it prevents even one shooting death or mass
shooting.



If there's other policies being proposed that can help limit access to
guns, I'm all for it if it still allows me to purchase a pistol to carry
legally and a shotgun to go hunting. I don't believe I should be allowed to
own a machine gun type weapon for use at my home. Weapons like that should
be allowed only at shooting ranges and locked up under heavy security. They
do not belong at a residential home anywhere for sport or home protection.



So anyway, I think there are gun nuts out there that like to walk around
while open carrying and say Obama is trying to steal all our guns. I think
they're crazy and need a bonk on the head to come to your senses. Try
acting normal and conceal your weapon, don't talk like a crazy gun nut and
try to realize you don't need a machine gun.



The government's job is to protect as many citizens as possible. That means
more laws, more enforcement, and more compliance. We can't easily identify
and stop all people who will commit a shooting crime. We can more easily
target guns themselves and prevent the sale of them to as many "bad" people
as possible. For "good" and legal people who want to buy one, stop
complaining about gun control and embrace it in order to help save lives.
Gun control isn't meant for good people, only the bad people. You'll still
be able to buy any weapon you "need" in order to hunt or protect your home.



On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 5:48 AM, Gino Villarini  wrote:

Freedom is not the exercise to choose whatever you want.  Heck then free
all the child molesters! Human beings need to be controlled, that the whole

[AFMUG] Signal-Scrambling Tech 'Freezes' Drones in Midair

[Jaime Solorza]

http://m.livescience.com/52448-new-tech-freezes-drones.html?google_editors_picks=true

Jaime Solorza

Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings

[chuck]

Hard to get a driver’s license in Germany.

From: Lewis Bergman 
Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 3:18 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings

Maybe the simple fact that Germany has a much lower rate of car ownership would 
explain why they allow them more freedom in that area. 809 compared to 588 per 
1000. I would think the lower rate would indicate a more responsible average.




On Sat, Oct 10, 2015, 3:32 PM Mathew Howard  wrote:

  What's right for one country, isn't necessarily right for another. While I 
would love to be able to drive as fast I think is safe, knowing how the typical 
American drives, I'd guess that it would be far more deadly here than in 
Germany. I suspect the same logic applies to other stuff to some extent. 

  On Oct 10, 2015 11:05 AM, "Stefan Englhardt"  wrote:

Countrys with weak gun control have more shot people. Simple logic in my 
eyes.

Nothing to say against if the majority of a country takes this into 
account. Just strange in

the eyes of a foreign citizen.

In my country you can buy a BMW and drive as fast as you think it is ok on 
highways.

this kills, too. Same arguments here. It is the freedom to drive. 





Von: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] Im Auftrag von Mike Hammett
Gesendet: Samstag, 10. Oktober 2015 16:47
An: af@afmug.com
Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings



Except that most mass shootings are done with weapons that were obtained in 
circumstances that even the most strict of control laws would allow. The 
weapons painted as being so evil just plain aren't used in these situations.

Logic doesn't lead you to gun control.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com






From: "Darin Steffl" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 8:12:08 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings

I carry a .380 pistol with me most of the time but I only own three guns 
myself. I also consider myself to have many Democratic views when it comes to 
gun policy and Republican views with taxes & business aspects.



I personally think it should be MUCH harder to purchase a firearm than it 
is. When I purchased my new glock, I ordered it online at Gander Mountain and 
walked into the store, they did a quick background check and I walked out in 10 
minutes. It was great to me as a consumer and easy. BUT, what if I was angry or 
in the heat of the moment and wanted to harm people. Now that easy gun purchase 
allowed me to walk out the same day with a deadly weapon.



I do not think our government is trying to take guns away as the crazy 
Republicans like to lie about. I do think we should have much stricter gun 
control though to keep the nutty people from having easy access. All that is 
going to do is make it take longer to purchase a legal firearm, which I am 
perfectly fine with if it prevents even one shooting death or mass shooting. 



If there's other policies being proposed that can help limit access to 
guns, I'm all for it if it still allows me to purchase a pistol to carry 
legally and a shotgun to go hunting. I don't believe I should be allowed to own 
a machine gun type weapon for use at my home. Weapons like that should be 
allowed only at shooting ranges and locked up under heavy security. They do not 
belong at a residential home anywhere for sport or home protection. 



So anyway, I think there are gun nuts out there that like to walk around 
while open carrying and say Obama is trying to steal all our guns. I think 
they're crazy and need a bonk on the head to come to your senses. Try acting 
normal and conceal your weapon, don't talk like a crazy gun nut and try to 
realize you don't need a machine gun. 



The government's job is to protect as many citizens as possible. That means 
more laws, more enforcement, and more compliance. We can't easily identify and 
stop all people who will commit a shooting crime. We can more easily target 
guns themselves and prevent the sale of them to as many "bad" people as 
possible. For "good" and legal people who want to buy one, stop complaining 
about gun control and embrace it in order to help save lives. Gun control isn't 
meant for good people, only the bad people. You'll still be able to buy any 
weapon you "need" in order to hunt or protect your home. 



On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 5:48 AM, Gino Villarini  wrote:

  Freedom is not the exercise to choose whatever you want.  Heck then free 
all the child molesters! Human beings need to be controlled, that the whole 
reasoning behind laws.  Im with Jaime and Stefan on this.  



  On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 6:28 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:

There are many items that kill more humans than first world guns.

Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings

[Mathew Howard]

Yes... realistically, the same standards wouldn't work here. If we had the
same requirements to be able to drive, half the population wouldn't have
any way to get to work (or wherever it is they need to go) everyday.
Thousands of lives would be saved every year from the reduction in traffic
deaths, but I'm pretty sure there would be very, very little support from
anyone for changing our driving standards to something similar to what
Germany has.

On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 5:36 PM, Patrick Leary 
wrote:

> I lived in Germany. There, people pay good money to earn the privilege to
> drive. You must be 18 and it costs well over a grand. As a result, German
> drivers are predictable. You’ll never see a German driver passing on the
> right. You’ll never see a German driver holding up traffic in a left or
> even middle lane. You won’t see a German change lanes without using their
> indicator. And of course, Germans respect that government has a job and is
> not the enemy, so they don’t reject taxation for infrastructure. As a
> result, Germany has MUCH better roads than we do. Seriously. The German
> autobahn is twice as thick and better banked. To be fair, we have thousands
> of miles more of Interstate, so we do have a harder job. Still. Also, you
> can’t drive a jalopy in Germany, which has strict inspection rules, that
> even include aesthetics, but the emphasis is on safe functioning.
>
>
>
> We can’t realistically have the same regime though, we have much larger
> distances and lots of backroads and farms and country roads. I think we
> don’t need the same standard of road, but we do need roads that are
> well-maintained, and we need much better driving skills. Our cops should
> focus less on cherry-picking speed traps (many areas here in FL are
> nationally famous for bullshit speed traps – e.g. Waldo, FL) and more on
> ticketing bad drivers.
>
>
>
> Driver etiquette is the real differentiator between the U.S. and Germany.
> A German won’t say, “I’m driving the speed limit so screw you, go around.”
> Germans, like other Europeans, understand they have a civic responsibility.
> Too many Americans reject civic responsibility as being “against freedom”
> and “un-American.” The closest parallel in the U.S. to how the Germans
> behave is the Mormon population, which places a very high premium on civic
> responsibility, public dignity, decency, the idea of body politic as one
> functioning unit. The concept of the Hive (ergo, Chuck’s Beehive).
>
>
>
> -  Patrick
>
>
>
> *On Behalf Of *Mathew Howard
> *Sent:* Saturday, October 10, 2015 4:32 PM
> *To:* af 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings
>
>
>
> What's right for one country, isn't necessarily right for another. While I
> would love to be able to drive as fast I think is safe, knowing how the
> typical American drives, I'd guess that it would be far more deadly here
> than in Germany. I suspect the same logic applies to other stuff to some
> extent.
>
> On Oct 10, 2015 11:05 AM, "Stefan Englhardt"  wrote:
>
> Countrys with weak gun control have more shot people. Simple logic in my
> eyes.
>
> Nothing to say against if the majority of a country takes this into
> account. Just strange in
>
> the eyes of a foreign citizen.
>
> In my country you can buy a BMW and drive as fast as you think it is ok on
> highways.
>
> this kills, too. Same arguments here. It is the freedom to drive.
>
>
>
>
>
> *Von:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *Im Auftrag von *Mike Hammett
> *Gesendet:* Samstag, 10. Oktober 2015 16:47
> *An:* af@afmug.com
> *Betreff:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings
>
>
>
> Except that most mass shootings are done with weapons that were obtained
> in circumstances that even the most strict of control laws would allow. The
> weapons painted as being so evil just plain aren't used in these situations.
>
> Logic doesn't lead you to gun control.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
> --
>
> *From: *"Darin Steffl" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Saturday, October 10, 2015 8:12:08 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings
>
> I carry a .380 pistol with me most of the time but I only own three guns
> myself. I also consider myself to have many Democratic views when it comes
> to gun policy and Republican views with taxes & business aspects.
>
>
>
> I personally think it should be MUCH harder to purchase a firearm than it
> is. When I purchased my new glock, I ordered it online at Gander Mountain
> and walked into the store, they did a quick background check and I walked
> out in 10 minutes. It was great to me as a consumer and easy. BUT, what if
> I was angry or in the heat of the moment and wanted to harm people. Now
> that easy gun purchase allowed me to walk out the same day with a deadly
> weapon.
>
>
>
> I do not think our government is trying to take guns away as the crazy
> 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings

[Mathew Howard]

I thought it was interesting when I drove to Chicago a few weeks ago, that
everyone seemed to drive faster on i90 in the 55mph construction zones than
they do where it's 70mph...

I don't think anyone has too much of a problem with keeping the real
crazies from having guns, but I don't really see how it would be possible
to stop most of these guys without taking rights away from all of us. I
personally don't want to live in a country where people can lose their
rights just because someone thinks that they're a little odd... which is
about all that anyone had to say about most of these mass shooters before
the fact, as far as I've seen. Even if you were required to take some kind
of test and get a license to buy a gun, I would bet most of these guys
would've passed any reasonable test.

On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 6:53 PM, George Skorup  wrote:

> We have this in Illinois. You get a ticket, then you have to retake at
> least the written test when you go to renew your license. I haven't had
> more than one ticket in 12 years or so, and that was just seatbelt as I
> went a block from the gas station back to the office. And apparently that
> doesn't count as one of the retest requirements, but the last time I went
> to renew, I was randomly selected for the written test. I missed one
> question, some stupid sign.
>
> I have astigmatism and I never, ever drive without correction.
>
> Yes, I do the speed limit, and if other drivers don't like it, then they
> can go around. If you ride my ass, I let off the gas. Go ahead, hit me and
> see what happens.
>
> What's really disgusting are the semi trucks passing me when I'm doing the
> speed limit. Those assholes need to be stripped of their CDLs. During
> construction on I55 by me, there were something like 10 people killed by
> truck drivers breaking the speed limit and not paying attention.
>
> People do stupid things with vehicles the same as they do stupid things
> with guns, or knives, or baseball bats, or drugs, or you name it. Forrest
> Gump said it best, "stupid is as stupid does." Crazy is a different story,
> but I have my rights and they have theirs as well. If anyone comes up with
> a good solution to the crazies, I'm sure reasonable people will listen and
> debate. If only an accusation leads to someone's rights being stripped
> without due process, that ain't gonna fly with me. And please stop with the
> nonsense that the NRA and Republicans are all hardliners on this. You're
> hearing that from the media that only quote the fringe because it's their
> agenda. Guns aren't going away, so forget about that.
>
> On 10/10/2015 6:04 PM, Glen Waldrop wrote:
>
> I dunno...
>
> I think the world would be a better place if bad drivers weren't allowed
> to drive. They need to retest or something every decade or so, maybe just
> once they get more than one violation. I don't know, but too many people
> drive like idiots just to get to the red light one second faster than the
> next guy. Maybe they just all need to get off their butts and build a race
> car, get it out of their system.
>
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Mathew Howard 
> *To:* af 
> *Sent:* Saturday, October 10, 2015 5:54 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings
>
> Yes... realistically, the same standards wouldn't work here. If we had the
> same requirements to be able to drive, half the population wouldn't have
> any way to get to work (or wherever it is they need to go) everyday.
> Thousands of lives would be saved every year from the reduction in traffic
> deaths, but I'm pretty sure there would be very, very little support from
> anyone for changing our driving standards to something similar to what
> Germany has.
>
> On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 5:36 PM, Patrick Leary 
> wrote:
>
>> I lived in Germany. There, people pay good money to earn the privilege to
>> drive. You must be 18 and it costs well over a grand. As a result, German
>> drivers are predictable. You’ll never see a German driver passing on the
>> right. You’ll never see a German driver holding up traffic in a left or
>> even middle lane. You won’t see a German change lanes without using their
>> indicator. And of course, Germans respect that government has a job and is
>> not the enemy, so they don’t reject taxation for infrastructure. As a
>> result, Germany has MUCH better roads than we do. Seriously. The German
>> autobahn is twice as thick and better banked. To be fair, we have thousands
>> of miles more of Interstate, so we do have a harder job. Still. Also, you
>> can’t drive a jalopy in Germany, which has strict inspection rules, that
>> even include aesthetics, but the emphasis is on safe functioning.
>>
>>
>>
>> We can’t realistically have the same regime though, we have much larger
>> distances and lots of backroads and farms and country roads. I think we
>> don’t need the same standard of road, but we do need roads that are
>> 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review - not positive - some spoiler info

[Eric Kuhnke]

"Wrinkles on the outside of the spacecraft and the ablative fabric. "

thermal blankets are a real thing, they are wrinkly. see for example:

https://www.google.com/search?q=thermal+blanket+satellite=100=lnms=isch=X=0CAgQ_AUoAmoVChMIpqfE1Za5yAIVgYwNCh0QwAEc=1339=913


now you certainly don't see them on things intended for atmospheric flight.
in their current use thermal blankets on satellites are only exposed after
an aeroshell has been jettisoned and atmospheric drag is negligible (>150km
altitude).

On Fri, Nov 14, 2014 at 6:29 PM, Chuck McCown via Af  wrote:

> Interstellar
>
> meh
>
> Cheap ass sets.  Old HP test gear (circa 1975) in the wall of a space
> station, also primary flight instruments from an airplane.  Wrinkles on the
> outside of the spacecraft and the ablative fabric.  Cheap weightless
> effects.  Robots with CLI screens scrolling text.  Robots that interface
> with spacecraft that was built 100 years apart.  Setting green corn fields
> ablaze.  Having lots of new tires and gasoline in a dire survival of
> mankind situation.  Farmer just happening to have a laptop, RF gear,
> antenna etc to take control of a random drone that appears in the sky.
> Then he guts the drone for a controller for his tractor...   Landing only
> type craft having enough fuel to take off again and get back to a space
> station.  Two astronauts walk a mile or so but it takes a spacecraft
> several minutes to get there.  Something the size of a Saturn V taking off
> inside a missile silo with lots of people in it.  Ceramic tile on the
> hibernation tanks on a space station and space craft.  All of the
> spacecraft bobs and weaves like it is in turbulence or a rough sea.  The
> relative motion between spacecraft is ridiculous.  Flags surviving the wind
> for 20 years.
>
> Other than that it was great.   My wife loved it.
>

Re: [AFMUG] Radwin Jet. Anyone using it yet? Thoughts on performance?

[Mike Hammett]

120 in 20 MHz? I'd probably believe that. In 20 MHz I get slightly over 50 up 
and 50 down from MT to MT when in 50/50 mode without actually aligning the 
dishes. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

- Original Message -

From: "Josh Luthman"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, October 9, 2015 12:39:58 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Radwin Jet. Anyone using it yet? Thoughts on performance? 


Claims are 120. In a good environment that's possible. I get 5 bits/hz on 
strong links. Bad links of 70 and 75 I'm seeing 4 bits/hz. Everything is 10 or 
20 MHz in my world. 
Josh Luthman 
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St 
Suite 1337 
Troy, OH 45373 
On Oct 9, 2015 1:26 PM, "Sam Lambie" < samtaos...@gmail.com > wrote: 



You mean 50/50 ratio right? What is the throughput of those puppies? In the 
real world of course. I don't believe their claims of 200 mbps. Of which I 
assume is aggregate. 



On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 11:11 AM, Josh Luthman < j...@imaginenetworksllc.com > 
wrote: 



Epmp in 50/50? 
Josh Luthman 
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St 
Suite 1337 
Troy, OH 45373 
On Oct 9, 2015 1:05 PM, "Sam Lambie" < samtaos...@gmail.com > wrote: 




What I am most interested in though is SLA and more importantly, upload 
capacity. Their website doesn't seem to have any literature on the HSU's as to 
whether or not they have a dynamic ratio capability. 
Are there other vendors that can do higher than 20 mbps on PTMP? 



On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 10:43 AM, Bill Prince < part15...@gmail.com > wrote: 





Yah. Just figured that out. The Radwin/Ligowave parallel was apparently a 
figment of my imagination. 

bp
 


On 10/9/2015 9:39 AM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: 




Radwin Jet is there PTMP AP with beam forming. 





Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
7266 SW 48 Street 
Miami, FL 33155 
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 





From: "Adam Moffett"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, October 9, 2015 12:18:42 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Radwin Jet. Anyone using it yet? Thoughts on performance? 





I have not used Radwin jet (and don't know what it is), but I have used Radwin 
1000 and Radwin 2000. 

If they have a link budget calculator for the Jet, then go by that rather than 
the spec sheet. The number in the spec sheet is probably not achievable in real 
life. 


On 10/9/2015 12:09 PM, Sam Lambie wrote: 




Looking to deliver to 4 locations with 4 HD Cameras on each location. Need 
probably about 25-35 mbps UPLOAD per location. This will be in a small plaza in 
Taos NM 

Sam 



-- 

-- 
Sam Lambie 
Taosnet Wireless Tech. 
575-758-7598 Office 
www.Taosnet.com 
















-- 

-- 
Sam Lambie 
Taosnet Wireless Tech. 
575-758-7598 Office 
www.Taosnet.com 






-- 

-- 
Sam Lambie 
Taosnet Wireless Tech. 
575-758-7598 Office 
www.Taosnet.com 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings

[Patrick Leary]

Forgot to include this

http://www.imaginelifestyles.com/luxuryliving/2012/04/autobahn-vs-american-highways-high-speeds-and-fewer-accidents

Patrick Leary, Telrad
727-501-3735

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mathew Howard
Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 4:32 PM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings


What's right for one country, isn't necessarily right for another. While I 
would love to be able to drive as fast I think is safe, knowing how the typical 
American drives, I'd guess that it would be far more deadly here than in 
Germany. I suspect the same logic applies to other stuff to some extent.
On Oct 10, 2015 11:05 AM, "Stefan Englhardt" 
> wrote:
Countrys with weak gun control have more shot people. Simple logic in my eyes.
Nothing to say against if the majority of a country takes this into account. 
Just strange in
the eyes of a foreign citizen.
In my country you can buy a BMW and drive as fast as you think it is ok on 
highways.
this kills, too. Same arguments here. It is the freedom to drive.


Von: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] Im Auftrag 
von Mike Hammett
Gesendet: Samstag, 10. Oktober 2015 16:47
An: af@afmug.com
Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings

Except that most mass shootings are done with weapons that were obtained in 
circumstances that even the most strict of control laws would allow. The 
weapons painted as being so evil just plain aren't used in these situations.

Logic doesn't lead you to gun control.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


From: "Darin Steffl" >
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 8:12:08 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings
I carry a .380 pistol with me most of the time but I only own three guns 
myself. I also consider myself to have many Democratic views when it comes to 
gun policy and Republican views with taxes & business aspects.

I personally think it should be MUCH harder to purchase a firearm than it is. 
When I purchased my new glock, I ordered it online at Gander Mountain and 
walked into the store, they did a quick background check and I walked out in 10 
minutes. It was great to me as a consumer and easy. BUT, what if I was angry or 
in the heat of the moment and wanted to harm people. Now that easy gun purchase 
allowed me to walk out the same day with a deadly weapon.

I do not think our government is trying to take guns away as the crazy 
Republicans like to lie about. I do think we should have much stricter gun 
control though to keep the nutty people from having easy access. All that is 
going to do is make it take longer to purchase a legal firearm, which I am 
perfectly fine with if it prevents even one shooting death or mass shooting.

If there's other policies being proposed that can help limit access to guns, 
I'm all for it if it still allows me to purchase a pistol to carry legally and 
a shotgun to go hunting. I don't believe I should be allowed to own a machine 
gun type weapon for use at my home. Weapons like that should be allowed only at 
shooting ranges and locked up under heavy security. They do not belong at a 
residential home anywhere for sport or home protection.

So anyway, I think there are gun nuts out there that like to walk around while 
open carrying and say Obama is trying to steal all our guns. I think they're 
crazy and need a bonk on the head to come to your senses. Try acting normal and 
conceal your weapon, don't talk like a crazy gun nut and try to realize you 
don't need a machine gun.

The government's job is to protect as many citizens as possible. That means 
more laws, more enforcement, and more compliance. We can't easily identify and 
stop all people who will commit a shooting crime. We can more easily target 
guns themselves and prevent the sale of them to as many "bad" people as 
possible. For "good" and legal people who want to buy one, stop complaining 
about gun control and embrace it in order to help save lives. Gun control isn't 
meant for good people, only the bad people. You'll still be able to buy any 
weapon you "need" in order to hunt or protect your home.

On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 5:48 AM, Gino Villarini 
> wrote:
Freedom is not the exercise to choose whatever you want.  Heck then free all 
the child molesters! Human beings need to be controlled, that the whole 
reasoning behind laws.  Im with Jaime and Stefan on this.

On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 6:28 AM, Mike Hammett 
> wrote:
There are many items that kill more humans than first world guns.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


From: "Stefan Englhardt" 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings

[Patrick Leary]

I love me some Ten Bears. I wear a “bear” ring, but it’s Navajo, not Comanche. 
Best book I have read lately is “Empire of the Summer Moon. The Story of Sarah 
Parker and Quanah Parker.” Read that. Comanche scared the bejesus out of 
everyone.

Patrick Leary, Telrad
727-501-3735

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jaime Solorza
Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 4:39 PM
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings


Logic went out years ago.  There is iron in the words Patrick wrote no paper 
can hold...(apologies to Ten Bears)...

Jaime Solorza
On Oct 10, 2015 2:32 PM, "Mathew Howard" 
> wrote:

What's right for one country, isn't necessarily right for another. While I 
would love to be able to drive as fast I think is safe, knowing how the typical 
American drives, I'd guess that it would be far more deadly here than in 
Germany. I suspect the same logic applies to other stuff to some extent.
On Oct 10, 2015 11:05 AM, "Stefan Englhardt" 
> wrote:
Countrys with weak gun control have more shot people. Simple logic in my eyes.
Nothing to say against if the majority of a country takes this into account. 
Just strange in
the eyes of a foreign citizen.
In my country you can buy a BMW and drive as fast as you think it is ok on 
highways.
this kills, too. Same arguments here. It is the freedom to drive.


Von: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] Im Auftrag 
von Mike Hammett
Gesendet: Samstag, 10. Oktober 2015 16:47
An: af@afmug.com
Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings

Except that most mass shootings are done with weapons that were obtained in 
circumstances that even the most strict of control laws would allow. The 
weapons painted as being so evil just plain aren't used in these situations.

Logic doesn't lead you to gun control.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


From: "Darin Steffl" >
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 8:12:08 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings
I carry a .380 pistol with me most of the time but I only own three guns 
myself. I also consider myself to have many Democratic views when it comes to 
gun policy and Republican views with taxes & business aspects.

I personally think it should be MUCH harder to purchase a firearm than it is. 
When I purchased my new glock, I ordered it online at Gander Mountain and 
walked into the store, they did a quick background check and I walked out in 10 
minutes. It was great to me as a consumer and easy. BUT, what if I was angry or 
in the heat of the moment and wanted to harm people. Now that easy gun purchase 
allowed me to walk out the same day with a deadly weapon.

I do not think our government is trying to take guns away as the crazy 
Republicans like to lie about. I do think we should have much stricter gun 
control though to keep the nutty people from having easy access. All that is 
going to do is make it take longer to purchase a legal firearm, which I am 
perfectly fine with if it prevents even one shooting death or mass shooting.

If there's other policies being proposed that can help limit access to guns, 
I'm all for it if it still allows me to purchase a pistol to carry legally and 
a shotgun to go hunting. I don't believe I should be allowed to own a machine 
gun type weapon for use at my home. Weapons like that should be allowed only at 
shooting ranges and locked up under heavy security. They do not belong at a 
residential home anywhere for sport or home protection.

So anyway, I think there are gun nuts out there that like to walk around while 
open carrying and say Obama is trying to steal all our guns. I think they're 
crazy and need a bonk on the head to come to your senses. Try acting normal and 
conceal your weapon, don't talk like a crazy gun nut and try to realize you 
don't need a machine gun.

The government's job is to protect as many citizens as possible. That means 
more laws, more enforcement, and more compliance. We can't easily identify and 
stop all people who will commit a shooting crime. We can more easily target 
guns themselves and prevent the sale of them to as many "bad" people as 
possible. For "good" and legal people who want to buy one, stop complaining 
about gun control and embrace it in order to help save lives. Gun control isn't 
meant for good people, only the bad people. You'll still be able to buy any 
weapon you "need" in order to hunt or protect your home.

On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 5:48 AM, Gino Villarini 
> wrote:
Freedom is not the exercise to choose whatever you want.  Heck then free all 
the child molesters! Human beings need to be controlled, that the whole 
reasoning behind laws.  Im with Jaime and 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings

[Mathew Howard]

Oh, I agree... the world would be better if we could get rid of bad
drivers. I have to agree with what Patrick said, cops should focus more on
ticketing bad drivers, and not so much on randomly giving out tickets on
highways where everyone (including cops...) speeds.

On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 6:04 PM, Glen Waldrop 
wrote:

> I dunno...
>
> I think the world would be a better place if bad drivers weren't allowed
> to drive. They need to retest or something every decade or so, maybe just
> once they get more than one violation. I don't know, but too many people
> drive like idiots just to get to the red light one second faster than the
> next guy. Maybe they just all need to get off their butts and build a race
> car, get it out of their system.
>
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Mathew Howard 
> *To:* af 
> *Sent:* Saturday, October 10, 2015 5:54 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings
>
> Yes... realistically, the same standards wouldn't work here. If we had the
> same requirements to be able to drive, half the population wouldn't have
> any way to get to work (or wherever it is they need to go) everyday.
> Thousands of lives would be saved every year from the reduction in traffic
> deaths, but I'm pretty sure there would be very, very little support from
> anyone for changing our driving standards to something similar to what
> Germany has.
>
> On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 5:36 PM, Patrick Leary 
> wrote:
>
>> I lived in Germany. There, people pay good money to earn the privilege to
>> drive. You must be 18 and it costs well over a grand. As a result, German
>> drivers are predictable. You’ll never see a German driver passing on the
>> right. You’ll never see a German driver holding up traffic in a left or
>> even middle lane. You won’t see a German change lanes without using their
>> indicator. And of course, Germans respect that government has a job and is
>> not the enemy, so they don’t reject taxation for infrastructure. As a
>> result, Germany has MUCH better roads than we do. Seriously. The German
>> autobahn is twice as thick and better banked. To be fair, we have thousands
>> of miles more of Interstate, so we do have a harder job. Still. Also, you
>> can’t drive a jalopy in Germany, which has strict inspection rules, that
>> even include aesthetics, but the emphasis is on safe functioning.
>>
>>
>>
>> We can’t realistically have the same regime though, we have much larger
>> distances and lots of backroads and farms and country roads. I think we
>> don’t need the same standard of road, but we do need roads that are
>> well-maintained, and we need much better driving skills. Our cops should
>> focus less on cherry-picking speed traps (many areas here in FL are
>> nationally famous for bullshit speed traps – e.g. Waldo, FL) and more on
>> ticketing bad drivers.
>>
>>
>>
>> Driver etiquette is the real differentiator between the U.S. and Germany.
>> A German won’t say, “I’m driving the speed limit so screw you, go around.”
>> Germans, like other Europeans, understand they have a civic responsibility.
>> Too many Americans reject civic responsibility as being “against freedom”
>> and “un-American.” The closest parallel in the U.S. to how the Germans
>> behave is the Mormon population, which places a very high premium on civic
>> responsibility, public dignity, decency, the idea of body politic as one
>> functioning unit. The concept of the Hive (ergo, Chuck’s Beehive).
>>
>>
>>
>> -  Patrick
>>
>>
>>
>> *On Behalf Of *Mathew Howard
>> *Sent:* Saturday, October 10, 2015 4:32 PM
>> *To:* af 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings
>>
>>
>>
>> What's right for one country, isn't necessarily right for another. While
>> I would love to be able to drive as fast I think is safe, knowing how the
>> typical American drives, I'd guess that it would be far more deadly here
>> than in Germany. I suspect the same logic applies to other stuff to some
>> extent.
>>
>> On Oct 10, 2015 11:05 AM, "Stefan Englhardt"  wrote:
>>
>> Countrys with weak gun control have more shot people. Simple logic in my
>> eyes.
>>
>> Nothing to say against if the majority of a country takes this into
>> account. Just strange in
>>
>> the eyes of a foreign citizen.
>>
>> In my country you can buy a BMW and drive as fast as you think it is ok
>> on highways.
>>
>> this kills, too. Same arguments here. It is the freedom to drive.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *Von:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *Im Auftrag von *Mike Hammett
>> *Gesendet:* Samstag, 10. Oktober 2015 16:47
>> *An:* af@afmug.com
>> *Betreff:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings
>>
>>
>>
>> Except that most mass shootings are done with weapons that were obtained
>> in circumstances that even the most strict of control laws would allow. The
>> weapons painted as being so evil just plain aren't used in these situations.
>>
>> Logic doesn't lead 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings

[George Skorup]

We have this in Illinois. You get a ticket, then you have to retake at 
least the written test when you go to renew your license. I haven't had 
more than one ticket in 12 years or so, and that was just seatbelt as I 
went a block from the gas station back to the office. And apparently 
that doesn't count as one of the retest requirements, but the last time 
I went to renew, I was randomly selected for the written test. I missed 
one question, some stupid sign.


I have astigmatism and I never, ever drive without correction.

Yes, I do the speed limit, and if other drivers don't like it, then they 
can go around. If you ride my ass, I let off the gas. Go ahead, hit me 
and see what happens.


What's really disgusting are the semi trucks passing me when I'm doing 
the speed limit. Those assholes need to be stripped of their CDLs. 
During construction on I55 by me, there were something like 10 people 
killed by truck drivers breaking the speed limit and not paying attention.


People do stupid things with vehicles the same as they do stupid things 
with guns, or knives, or baseball bats, or drugs, or you name it. 
Forrest Gump said it best, "stupid is as stupid does." Crazy is a 
different story, but I have my rights and they have theirs as well. If 
anyone comes up with a good solution to the crazies, I'm sure reasonable 
people will listen and debate. If only an accusation leads to someone's 
rights being stripped without due process, that ain't gonna fly with me. 
And please stop with the nonsense that the NRA and Republicans are all 
hardliners on this. You're hearing that from the media that only quote 
the fringe because it's their agenda. Guns aren't going away, so forget 
about that.


On 10/10/2015 6:04 PM, Glen Waldrop wrote:

I dunno...

I think the world would be a better place if bad drivers weren't 
allowed to drive. They need to retest or something every decade or so, 
maybe just once they get more than one violation. I don't know, but 
too many people drive like idiots just to get to the red light one 
second faster than the next guy. Maybe they just all need to get off 
their butts and build a race car, get it out of their system.


- Original Message -
*From:* Mathew Howard 
*To:* af 
*Sent:* Saturday, October 10, 2015 5:54 PM
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings

Yes... realistically, the same standards wouldn't work here. If we
had the same requirements to be able to drive, half the population
wouldn't have any way to get to work (or wherever it is they need
to go) everyday. Thousands of lives would be saved every year from
the reduction in traffic deaths, but I'm pretty sure there would
be very, very little support from anyone for changing our driving
standards to something similar to what Germany has.

On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 5:36 PM, Patrick Leary
> wrote:

I lived in Germany. There, people pay good money to earn the
privilege to drive. You must be 18 and it costs well over a
grand. As a result, German drivers are predictable. You’ll
never see a German driver passing on the right. You’ll never
see a German driver holding up traffic in a left or even
middle lane. You won’t see a German change lanes without using
their indicator. And of course, Germans respect that
government has a job and is not the enemy, so they don’t
reject taxation for infrastructure. As a result, Germany has
MUCH better roads than we do. Seriously. The German autobahn
is twice as thick and better banked. To be fair, we have
thousands of miles more of Interstate, so we do have a harder
job. Still. Also, you can’t drive a jalopy in Germany, which
has strict inspection rules, that even include aesthetics, but
the emphasis is on safe functioning.

We can’t realistically have the same regime though, we have
much larger distances and lots of backroads and farms and
country roads. I think we don’t need the same standard of
road, but we do need roads that are well-maintained, and we
need much better driving skills. Our cops should focus less on
cherry-picking speed traps (many areas here in FL are
nationally famous for bullshit speed traps – e.g. Waldo, FL)
and more on ticketing bad drivers.

Driver etiquette is the real differentiator between the U.S.
and Germany. A German won’t say, “I’m driving the speed limit
so screw you, go around.” Germans, like other Europeans,
understand they have a civic responsibility. Too many
Americans reject civic responsibility as being “against
freedom” and “un-American.” The closest parallel in the U.S.
to how the Germans behave is the Mormon population, which
places a 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings

[Jaime Solorza]

Logic went out years ago.  There is iron in the words Patrick wrote no
paper can hold...(apologies to Ten Bears)...

Jaime Solorza
On Oct 10, 2015 2:32 PM, "Mathew Howard"  wrote:

> What's right for one country, isn't necessarily right for another. While I
> would love to be able to drive as fast I think is safe, knowing how the
> typical American drives, I'd guess that it would be far more deadly here
> than in Germany. I suspect the same logic applies to other stuff to some
> extent.
> On Oct 10, 2015 11:05 AM, "Stefan Englhardt"  wrote:
>
>> Countrys with weak gun control have more shot people. Simple logic in my
>> eyes.
>>
>> Nothing to say against if the majority of a country takes this into
>> account. Just strange in
>>
>> the eyes of a foreign citizen.
>>
>> In my country you can buy a BMW and drive as fast as you think it is ok
>> on highways.
>>
>> this kills, too. Same arguments here. It is the freedom to drive.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *Von:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *Im Auftrag von *Mike Hammett
>> *Gesendet:* Samstag, 10. Oktober 2015 16:47
>> *An:* af@afmug.com
>> *Betreff:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings
>>
>>
>>
>> Except that most mass shootings are done with weapons that were obtained
>> in circumstances that even the most strict of control laws would allow. The
>> weapons painted as being so evil just plain aren't used in these situations.
>>
>> Logic doesn't lead you to gun control.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> *From: *"Darin Steffl" 
>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Saturday, October 10, 2015 8:12:08 AM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings
>>
>> I carry a .380 pistol with me most of the time but I only own three guns
>> myself. I also consider myself to have many Democratic views when it comes
>> to gun policy and Republican views with taxes & business aspects.
>>
>>
>>
>> I personally think it should be MUCH harder to purchase a firearm than it
>> is. When I purchased my new glock, I ordered it online at Gander Mountain
>> and walked into the store, they did a quick background check and I walked
>> out in 10 minutes. It was great to me as a consumer and easy. BUT, what if
>> I was angry or in the heat of the moment and wanted to harm people. Now
>> that easy gun purchase allowed me to walk out the same day with a deadly
>> weapon.
>>
>>
>>
>> I do not think our government is trying to take guns away as the crazy
>> Republicans like to lie about. I do think we should have much stricter gun
>> control though to keep the nutty people from having easy access. All that
>> is going to do is make it take longer to purchase a legal firearm, which I
>> am perfectly fine with if it prevents even one shooting death or mass
>> shooting.
>>
>>
>>
>> If there's other policies being proposed that can help limit access to
>> guns, I'm all for it if it still allows me to purchase a pistol to carry
>> legally and a shotgun to go hunting. I don't believe I should be allowed to
>> own a machine gun type weapon for use at my home. Weapons like that should
>> be allowed only at shooting ranges and locked up under heavy security. They
>> do not belong at a residential home anywhere for sport or home protection.
>>
>>
>>
>> So anyway, I think there are gun nuts out there that like to walk around
>> while open carrying and say Obama is trying to steal all our guns. I think
>> they're crazy and need a bonk on the head to come to your senses. Try
>> acting normal and conceal your weapon, don't talk like a crazy gun nut and
>> try to realize you don't need a machine gun.
>>
>>
>>
>> The government's job is to protect as many citizens as possible. That
>> means more laws, more enforcement, and more compliance. We can't easily
>> identify and stop all people who will commit a shooting crime. We can more
>> easily target guns themselves and prevent the sale of them to as many "bad"
>> people as possible. For "good" and legal people who want to buy one, stop
>> complaining about gun control and embrace it in order to help save lives.
>> Gun control isn't meant for good people, only the bad people. You'll still
>> be able to buy any weapon you "need" in order to hunt or protect your home.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 5:48 AM, Gino Villarini 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Freedom is not the exercise to choose whatever you want.  Heck then free
>> all the child molesters! Human beings need to be controlled, that the whole
>> reasoning behind laws.  Im with Jaime and Stefan on this.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 6:28 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>>
>> There are many items that kill more humans than first world guns.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> *From: *"Stefan Englhardt" 
>> 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings

[Lewis Bergman]

What a shock. The proponents want more unions and social programs to "fix"
the problem. There is decent on the subject if the whole article is read
and good counterpoints. Bottom line is it is a flawed comparison and flawed
methodology.

Not sure what you mean by throwing slogans around. I don't think I have
done so. My opinion on this countries stature is based on overseas travel
and what I see there. Their standard of living versus ours. Evidence of
mobility will surround all of us this weekend.

I agree that it is tougher now than thirty years ago. I'm my opinion
government regulation is the main issue there. I will say that if you think
there is an issue, get involved to solve it. Getting involved and doing
something to make even a little difference isn't as hard as you might think.

On Sat, Oct 10, 2015, 5:52 PM Patrick Leary 
wrote:

> Dang, forgot it again
>
>
>
>
> http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2013/dec/19/steven-rattner/it-easier-obtain-american-dream-europe/
>
>
>
> Patrick Leary, Telrad
>
> 727-501-3735
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Lewis Bergman
>
>
> *Sent:* Saturday, October 10, 2015 5:11 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings
>
>
>
> I think you give other countries more credit than they deserve. I'll
> argue, all things considered, we are the least broken country in existence.
>
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 10, 2015, 3:39 PM Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>
> Logic went out years ago.  There is iron in the words Patrick wrote no
> paper can hold...(apologies to Ten Bears)...
>
> Jaime Solorza
>
> On Oct 10, 2015 2:32 PM, "Mathew Howard"  wrote:
>
> What's right for one country, isn't necessarily right for another. While I
> would love to be able to drive as fast I think is safe, knowing how the
> typical American drives, I'd guess that it would be far more deadly here
> than in Germany. I suspect the same logic applies to other stuff to some
> extent.
>
> On Oct 10, 2015 11:05 AM, "Stefan Englhardt"  wrote:
>
> Countrys with weak gun control have more shot people. Simple logic in my
> eyes.
>
> Nothing to say against if the majority of a country takes this into
> account. Just strange in
>
> the eyes of a foreign citizen.
>
> In my country you can buy a BMW and drive as fast as you think it is ok on
> highways.
>
> this kills, too. Same arguments here. It is the freedom to drive.
>
>
>
>
>
> *Von:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *Im Auftrag von *Mike Hammett
> *Gesendet:* Samstag, 10. Oktober 2015 16:47
> *An:* af@afmug.com
> *Betreff:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings
>
>
>
> Except that most mass shootings are done with weapons that were obtained
> in circumstances that even the most strict of control laws would allow. The
> weapons painted as being so evil just plain aren't used in these situations.
>
> Logic doesn't lead you to gun control.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
> --
>
> *From: *"Darin Steffl" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Saturday, October 10, 2015 8:12:08 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings
>
> I carry a .380 pistol with me most of the time but I only own three guns
> myself. I also consider myself to have many Democratic views when it comes
> to gun policy and Republican views with taxes & business aspects.
>
>
>
> I personally think it should be MUCH harder to purchase a firearm than it
> is. When I purchased my new glock, I ordered it online at Gander Mountain
> and walked into the store, they did a quick background check and I walked
> out in 10 minutes. It was great to me as a consumer and easy. BUT, what if
> I was angry or in the heat of the moment and wanted to harm people. Now
> that easy gun purchase allowed me to walk out the same day with a deadly
> weapon.
>
>
>
> I do not think our government is trying to take guns away as the crazy
> Republicans like to lie about. I do think we should have much stricter gun
> control though to keep the nutty people from having easy access. All that
> is going to do is make it take longer to purchase a legal firearm, which I
> am perfectly fine with if it prevents even one shooting death or mass
> shooting.
>
>
>
> If there's other policies being proposed that can help limit access to
> guns, I'm all for it if it still allows me to purchase a pistol to carry
> legally and a shotgun to go hunting. I don't believe I should be allowed to
> own a machine gun type weapon for use at my home. Weapons like that should
> be allowed only at shooting ranges and locked up under heavy security. They
> do not belong at a residential home anywhere for sport or home protection.
>
>
>
> So anyway, I think there are gun nuts out there that like to walk around
> while open carrying and say Obama is trying to steal all our guns. I think
> they're crazy and need a 

Re: [AFMUG] Whats Trump T Shirt size?

[Mike Hammett]

I love it when people conflate people present within our borders illegally with 
everyone that ever went anywhere. *sigh* 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

- Original Message -

From: "Jaime Solorza"  
To: "Animal Farm"  
Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 9:48:25 PM 
Subject: [AFMUG] Whats Trump T Shirt size? 


I am going to him one on left...he is not cool enough to wear the chuco one. El 
Paso is known as El Chuco ...East LA pachucos gave us that name 
Jaime Solorza 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings

[Lewis Bergman]

Did anyone see Saturday night live tonight? Funny parody of the NRA
commercials.

On Sat, Oct 10, 2015, 11:03 PM Jay Weekley 
wrote:

> Statistically, you're more likely to be killed by a drunk or distracted
> driver than someone with a gun.
>
> Mathew Howard wrote:
> > Oh, I agree... the world would be better if we could get rid of bad
> > drivers. I have to agree with what Patrick said, cops should focus
> > more on ticketing bad drivers, and not so much on randomly giving out
> > tickets on highways where everyone (including cops...) speeds.
> >
> > On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 6:04 PM, Glen Waldrop  > > wrote:
> >
> > I dunno...
> >
> > I think the world would be a better place if bad drivers weren't
> > allowed to drive. They need to retest or something every decade or
> > so, maybe just once they get more than one violation. I don't
> > know, but too many people drive like idiots just to get to the red
> > light one second faster than the next guy. Maybe they just all
> > need to get off their butts and build a race car, get it out of
> > their system.
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > *From:* Mathew Howard 
> > *To:* af 
> > *Sent:* Saturday, October 10, 2015 5:54 PM
> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings
> >
> > Yes... realistically, the same standards wouldn't work here.
> > If we had the same requirements to be able to drive, half the
> > population wouldn't have any way to get to work (or wherever
> > it is they need to go) everyday. Thousands of lives would be
> > saved every year from the reduction in traffic deaths, but I'm
> > pretty sure there would be very, very little support from
> > anyone for changing our driving standards to something similar
> > to what Germany has.
> >
> > On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 5:36 PM, Patrick Leary
> > >
> > wrote:
> >
> > I lived in Germany. There, people pay good money to earn
> > the privilege to drive. You must be 18 and it costs well
> > over a grand. As a result, German drivers are predictable.
> > You’ll never see a German driver passing on the right.
> > You’ll never see a German driver holding up traffic in a
> > left or even middle lane. You won’t see a German change
> > lanes without using their indicator. And of course,
> > Germans respect that government has a job and is not the
> > enemy, so they don’t reject taxation for infrastructure.
> > As a result, Germany has MUCH better roads than we do.
> > Seriously. The German autobahn is twice as thick and
> > better banked. To be fair, we have thousands of miles more
> > of Interstate, so we do have a harder job. Still. Also,
> > you can’t drive a jalopy in Germany, which has strict
> > inspection rules, that even include aesthetics, but the
> > emphasis is on safe functioning.
> >
> > We can’t realistically have the same regime though, we
> > have much larger distances and lots of backroads and farms
> > and country roads. I think we don’t need the same standard
> > of road, but we do need roads that are well-maintained,
> > and we need much better driving skills. Our cops should
> > focus less on cherry-picking speed traps (many areas here
> > in FL are nationally famous for bullshit speed traps –
> > e.g. Waldo, FL) and more on ticketing bad drivers.
> >
> > Driver etiquette is the real differentiator between the
> > U.S. and Germany. A German won’t say, “I’m driving the
> > speed limit so screw you, go around.” Germans, like other
> > Europeans, understand they have a civic responsibility.
> > Too many Americans reject civic responsibility as being
> > “against freedom” and “un-American.” The closest parallel
> > in the U.S. to how the Germans behave is the Mormon
> > population, which places a very high premium on civic
> > responsibility, public dignity, decency, the idea of body
> > politic as one functioning unit. The concept of the Hive
> > (ergo, Chuck’s Beehive).
> >
> > -Patrick
> >
> > *On Behalf Of *Mathew Howard
> > *Sent:* Saturday, October 10, 2015 4:32 PM
> > *To:* af >
> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings
> >
> > What's right for one country, isn't necessarily right for
> > another. While 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings

[Lewis Bergman]

Maybe the simple fact that Germany has a much lower rate of car ownership
would explain why they allow them more freedom in that area. 809 compared
to 588 per 1000. I would think the lower rate would indicate a more
responsible average.

On Sat, Oct 10, 2015, 3:32 PM Mathew Howard  wrote:

> What's right for one country, isn't necessarily right for another. While I
> would love to be able to drive as fast I think is safe, knowing how the
> typical American drives, I'd guess that it would be far more deadly here
> than in Germany. I suspect the same logic applies to other stuff to some
> extent.
> On Oct 10, 2015 11:05 AM, "Stefan Englhardt"  wrote:
>
>> Countrys with weak gun control have more shot people. Simple logic in my
>> eyes.
>>
>> Nothing to say against if the majority of a country takes this into
>> account. Just strange in
>>
>> the eyes of a foreign citizen.
>>
>> In my country you can buy a BMW and drive as fast as you think it is ok
>> on highways.
>>
>> this kills, too. Same arguments here. It is the freedom to drive.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *Von:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *Im Auftrag von *Mike Hammett
>> *Gesendet:* Samstag, 10. Oktober 2015 16:47
>> *An:* af@afmug.com
>> *Betreff:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings
>>
>>
>>
>> Except that most mass shootings are done with weapons that were obtained
>> in circumstances that even the most strict of control laws would allow. The
>> weapons painted as being so evil just plain aren't used in these situations.
>>
>> Logic doesn't lead you to gun control.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> *From: *"Darin Steffl" 
>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Saturday, October 10, 2015 8:12:08 AM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings
>>
>> I carry a .380 pistol with me most of the time but I only own three guns
>> myself. I also consider myself to have many Democratic views when it comes
>> to gun policy and Republican views with taxes & business aspects.
>>
>>
>>
>> I personally think it should be MUCH harder to purchase a firearm than it
>> is. When I purchased my new glock, I ordered it online at Gander Mountain
>> and walked into the store, they did a quick background check and I walked
>> out in 10 minutes. It was great to me as a consumer and easy. BUT, what if
>> I was angry or in the heat of the moment and wanted to harm people. Now
>> that easy gun purchase allowed me to walk out the same day with a deadly
>> weapon.
>>
>>
>>
>> I do not think our government is trying to take guns away as the crazy
>> Republicans like to lie about. I do think we should have much stricter gun
>> control though to keep the nutty people from having easy access. All that
>> is going to do is make it take longer to purchase a legal firearm, which I
>> am perfectly fine with if it prevents even one shooting death or mass
>> shooting.
>>
>>
>>
>> If there's other policies being proposed that can help limit access to
>> guns, I'm all for it if it still allows me to purchase a pistol to carry
>> legally and a shotgun to go hunting. I don't believe I should be allowed to
>> own a machine gun type weapon for use at my home. Weapons like that should
>> be allowed only at shooting ranges and locked up under heavy security. They
>> do not belong at a residential home anywhere for sport or home protection.
>>
>>
>>
>> So anyway, I think there are gun nuts out there that like to walk around
>> while open carrying and say Obama is trying to steal all our guns. I think
>> they're crazy and need a bonk on the head to come to your senses. Try
>> acting normal and conceal your weapon, don't talk like a crazy gun nut and
>> try to realize you don't need a machine gun.
>>
>>
>>
>> The government's job is to protect as many citizens as possible. That
>> means more laws, more enforcement, and more compliance. We can't easily
>> identify and stop all people who will commit a shooting crime. We can more
>> easily target guns themselves and prevent the sale of them to as many "bad"
>> people as possible. For "good" and legal people who want to buy one, stop
>> complaining about gun control and embrace it in order to help save lives.
>> Gun control isn't meant for good people, only the bad people. You'll still
>> be able to buy any weapon you "need" in order to hunt or protect your home.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 5:48 AM, Gino Villarini 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Freedom is not the exercise to choose whatever you want.  Heck then free
>> all the child molesters! Human beings need to be controlled, that the whole
>> reasoning behind laws.  Im with Jaime and Stefan on this.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 6:28 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>>
>> There are many items that kill more humans than first world guns.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings

[Patrick Leary]

I lived in Germany. There, people pay good money to earn the privilege to 
drive. You must be 18 and it costs well over a grand. As a result, German 
drivers are predictable. You’ll never see a German driver passing on the right. 
You’ll never see a German driver holding up traffic in a left or even middle 
lane. You won’t see a German change lanes without using their indicator. And of 
course, Germans respect that government has a job and is not the enemy, so they 
don’t reject taxation for infrastructure. As a result, Germany has MUCH better 
roads than we do. Seriously. The German autobahn is twice as thick and better 
banked. To be fair, we have thousands of miles more of Interstate, so we do 
have a harder job. Still. Also, you can’t drive a jalopy in Germany, which has 
strict inspection rules, that even include aesthetics, but the emphasis is on 
safe functioning.

We can’t realistically have the same regime though, we have much larger 
distances and lots of backroads and farms and country roads. I think we don’t 
need the same standard of road, but we do need roads that are well-maintained, 
and we need much better driving skills. Our cops should focus less on 
cherry-picking speed traps (many areas here in FL are nationally famous for 
bullshit speed traps – e.g. Waldo, FL) and more on ticketing bad drivers.

Driver etiquette is the real differentiator between the U.S. and Germany. A 
German won’t say, “I’m driving the speed limit so screw you, go around.” 
Germans, like other Europeans, understand they have a civic responsibility. Too 
many Americans reject civic responsibility as being “against freedom” and 
“un-American.” The closest parallel in the U.S. to how the Germans behave is 
the Mormon population, which places a very high premium on civic 
responsibility, public dignity, decency, the idea of body politic as one 
functioning unit. The concept of the Hive (ergo, Chuck’s Beehive).


-  Patrick


On Behalf Of Mathew Howard
Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 4:32 PM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings


What's right for one country, isn't necessarily right for another. While I 
would love to be able to drive as fast I think is safe, knowing how the typical 
American drives, I'd guess that it would be far more deadly here than in 
Germany. I suspect the same logic applies to other stuff to some extent.
On Oct 10, 2015 11:05 AM, "Stefan Englhardt" 
> wrote:
Countrys with weak gun control have more shot people. Simple logic in my eyes.
Nothing to say against if the majority of a country takes this into account. 
Just strange in
the eyes of a foreign citizen.
In my country you can buy a BMW and drive as fast as you think it is ok on 
highways.
this kills, too. Same arguments here. It is the freedom to drive.


Von: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] Im Auftrag 
von Mike Hammett
Gesendet: Samstag, 10. Oktober 2015 16:47
An: af@afmug.com
Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings

Except that most mass shootings are done with weapons that were obtained in 
circumstances that even the most strict of control laws would allow. The 
weapons painted as being so evil just plain aren't used in these situations.

Logic doesn't lead you to gun control.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


From: "Darin Steffl" >
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 8:12:08 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings
I carry a .380 pistol with me most of the time but I only own three guns 
myself. I also consider myself to have many Democratic views when it comes to 
gun policy and Republican views with taxes & business aspects.

I personally think it should be MUCH harder to purchase a firearm than it is. 
When I purchased my new glock, I ordered it online at Gander Mountain and 
walked into the store, they did a quick background check and I walked out in 10 
minutes. It was great to me as a consumer and easy. BUT, what if I was angry or 
in the heat of the moment and wanted to harm people. Now that easy gun purchase 
allowed me to walk out the same day with a deadly weapon.

I do not think our government is trying to take guns away as the crazy 
Republicans like to lie about. I do think we should have much stricter gun 
control though to keep the nutty people from having easy access. All that is 
going to do is make it take longer to purchase a legal firearm, which I am 
perfectly fine with if it prevents even one shooting death or mass shooting.

If there's other policies being proposed that can help limit access to guns, 
I'm all for it if it still allows me to purchase a pistol to carry legally and 
a shotgun to go hunting. I don't believe I should be allowed to own a machine 
gun type weapon for use at my home. Weapons like that should be 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings

[Jason McKemie]

There is a dogma about this in the US, you probably won't win this argument
:-)

On Saturday, October 10, 2015, Stefan Englhardt  wrote:

> My chance to get killed is much less then your chance. Without owning a
> weapon ...
> This "lock separately" does not work and we had a case of campus shooting
> where a father did not follow this rule ... If this father did not own a
> weapon his mad son would not have the possibility to kill. Talk to the
> fathers of the dead children to be convinced.
>
> You need to reduce freedom in this case for security reasons. What If I
> love bombs. The good smell of nitro. Who has the right to tell me not to
> have some bombs at home. For sure I am careful.
>
>
>  Ursprüngliche Nachricht 
> Von: Jay Weekley  >
> Datum: 10.10.2015 06:36 (GMT+01:00)
> An: af@afmug.com 
> Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings

[Stefan Englhardt]

I know. But some things have to be said nevertheless. I can stand the answers.

 Ursprüngliche Nachricht Von: Jason McKemie 
 Datum:10.10.2015  09:26  
(GMT+01:00) An: af@afmug.com Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] OT 
Campus Shootings 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review

[Jaime Solorza]

greatthankswhy go now?  it has a happy ending...predictable

Jaime Solorza
Wireless Systems Architect
915-861-1390

On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 11:13 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller  wrote:

>
> This shouldn't give anything away.  I was hoping hoping hoping they didn't
> end it right after the "rescue".  I wanted to see some aftermath - what
> happened once they got back, etc.  I was glad they did not end it right at
> "the rescue..."
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Jaime Solorza 
> *To:* Animal Farm 
> *Sent:* Sunday, October 04, 2015 10:56 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review
>
> Please no spoilers
> On Oct 3, 2015 7:14 PM, "Daniel White"  wrote:
>
>> I saw it yesterday.  It was one of the best movies I have seen in a long
>> time.
>>
>>
>>
>> Two thumbs up.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>>
>>
>> Daniel White
>>
>> afmu...@gmail.com
>>
>> Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
>>
>> Skype: danieldwhite
>> Social: LinkedIn : Twitter
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
>> *Sent:* Saturday, October 3, 2015 6:48 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT Movie Review
>>
>>
>>
>> Martian
>>
>> Loved it.
>>
>> Much better physics than that silly George Clooney movie.
>>
>> And funny too.
>>
>>
>> --
>> [image: Avast logo] 
>>
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> www.avast.com 
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Radwin Jet. Anyone using it yet? Thoughts on performance?

[Steve D]

This is the perfect deployment scenario for the radwin 5000.  You'll get
that upload.  Play with R-planner (or get a sales rep to do it for you if
learning its not-as-intuitive-as-it-looks-like-it-should-be interface isn't
getting you anywhere) and, just like cambium's link planner, if you don't
get what the tools says in the real world, you're probably doing it wrong.
 (Well, not including unforeseen obstructions and such of course.)

I have no experience with the Jet "beamforming" but the 5000 series gear
it's based on has been stone reliable for us.

Everything in these radios is controlled by "time slots".  It's a bit
different than cambium slots.  Time slots are limited in the radios, but it
guarantees that radio has that much bandwidth when it needs it (think of it
as your CIR setting).  They've since released an update that lets you use
more bandwidth if other slots are not in use, (which we investigated to see
if it we could abuse for a residential-style oversubscription - will work
once we can connect more than 32 radios...) but once you get used to what
they've done, it works well in industrial/commercial type scenarios.

-Steve D


On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 9:09 AM, Sam Lambie  wrote:

> Looking to deliver to 4 locations with 4 HD Cameras on each location. Need
> probably about 25-35 mbps UPLOAD per location. This will be in a small
> plaza in Taos NM
>
> Sam
>
> --
> --
> *Sam Lambie*
> Taosnet Wireless Tech.
> 575-758-7598 Office
> www.Taosnet.com 
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings

[Mike Hammett]

There are many items that kill more humans than first world guns. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

- Original Message -

From: "Stefan Englhardt"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, October 9, 2015 11:21:43 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings 


Looking at this with a foreign view I can't understand this "gun love" in US. 
It is not all about the criminals or idiots. Just look at the statistics for 
accidents with weapons. The only way to save lifes is to be very restrictive. 
If someone wants to shoot he can go to a shooting club and leave the weapon 
there. It is not freedom to have a gun at home. It is silly esp. with kids 
around. 
You can't avoid killing with banning weapons but you can reduce it. If I need a 
weapon I call for police or security. 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings

[Gino Villarini]

Freedom is not the exercise to choose whatever you want.  Heck then free
all the child molesters! Human beings need to be controlled, that the whole
reasoning behind laws.  Im with Jaime and Stefan on this.

On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 6:28 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:

> There are many items that kill more humans than first world guns.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
> --
> *From: *"Stefan Englhardt" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Friday, October 9, 2015 11:21:43 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings
>
> Looking at this with a foreign view I can't understand this "gun love" in
> US. It is not all about the criminals or idiots. Just look at the
> statistics for accidents with weapons. The only way to save lifes is to be
> very restrictive. If someone wants to shoot he can go to a shooting club
> and leave the weapon there. It is not freedom to have a gun at home. It is
> silly esp. with kids around.
> You can't avoid killing with banning weapons but you can reduce it. If I
> need a weapon I call for police or security.
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review

[Josh Luthman]

I could have told you that last month.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Oct 10, 2015 2:32 AM, "Jaime Solorza"  wrote:

> greatthankswhy go now?  it has a happy ending...predictable
>
> Jaime Solorza
> Wireless Systems Architect
> 915-861-1390
>
> On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 11:13 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller <
> par...@cyberbroadband.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> This shouldn't give anything away.  I was hoping hoping hoping they
>> didn't end it right after the "rescue".  I wanted to see some aftermath -
>> what happened once they got back, etc.  I was glad they did not end it
>> right at "the rescue..."
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> *From:* Jaime Solorza 
>> *To:* Animal Farm 
>> *Sent:* Sunday, October 04, 2015 10:56 AM
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review
>>
>> Please no spoilers
>> On Oct 3, 2015 7:14 PM, "Daniel White"  wrote:
>>
>>> I saw it yesterday.  It was one of the best movies I have seen in a long
>>> time.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Two thumbs up.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Daniel White
>>>
>>> afmu...@gmail.com
>>>
>>> Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
>>>
>>> Skype: danieldwhite
>>> Social: LinkedIn : Twitter
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
>>> *Sent:* Saturday, October 3, 2015 6:48 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT Movie Review
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Martian
>>>
>>> Loved it.
>>>
>>> Much better physics than that silly George Clooney movie.
>>>
>>> And funny too.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> [image: Avast logo] 
>>>
>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>> www.avast.com 
>>>
>>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Spam:*****, Re: OT Campus Shootings

[Tyson Burris @ Internet Communications Inc]

I was raised around the farm and guns.  I  was taught how to use them properly. 
 In school, we actually had a class on gun safety and usage.  (not required)  
People are the problem and always will be.  We try to be our own ‘gods’ but 
that will never work.   As Gino pointed out, human beings need to be 
controlled. Laws are only rules or guidelines.  A person with underlying issues 
to begin with will not obey laws.  Even if this country had no access to guns, 
someone with a desire to cause harm will find a way.  Drugs are illegal… how is 
that working out?  

 

Some of you may watch the documentary ‘drugs inc’.   Chicago is a waste land of 
gun violence right now. (mainly drug related)  A recent interview on the show 
struck me as one our biggest problems.   Two young kids dealing on the streets 
admitted they grew up without a ‘good’ parents. People on the streets are their 
family and taught them how to survive.  I won’t even get into the argument 
here, but family values have been turned upside down for years and the trend is 
up.  

 

These two drug dealers  statement echos the real issue here IMHO.  (many will 
disagree)  Parenting is the #1 frontline defense against so many problems.  If 
you parent good, and are fully involved with your kids’ lives a positive 
outcome should result.  

 

The issue I see right now is bad parenting is growing exponentially. We are 
seeing an increase of bad parents raising kids with problems.  Those kids grow 
up and do the same.  They have kids and so forth.  Some are lucky enough to 
break the trend but most don’t.

 

To make matters worse,  social media is a driving force behind so much opinion 
and ideas.  We are all so connected now that a person with underlying desires 
to harm (not just gun related) can easily gain access to things he/she never 
had before.  This drives the problem even further.

 

 

Tyson Burris, President 
Internet Communications Inc. 
739 Commerce Dr. 
Franklin, IN 46131 
  
317-738-0320 Daytime # 
317-412-1540 Cell/Direct # 
Online: www.surfici.net 

 



What can ICI do for you? 


Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP 
Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure. 
  
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the 
addressee shown. It contains information that is 
confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review, 
dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by 
unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly 
prohibited. 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Gino Villarini
Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 6:49 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Spam:*, Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings

 

Freedom is not the exercise to choose whatever you want.  Heck then free all 
the child molesters! Human beings need to be controlled, that the whole 
reasoning behind laws.  Im with Jaime and Stefan on this.  

 

On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 6:28 AM, Mike Hammett  > wrote:

There are many items that kill more humans than first world guns.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com

 


  _  


From: "Stefan Englhardt"  >
To: af@afmug.com  
Sent: Friday, October 9, 2015 11:21:43 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings

Looking at this with a foreign view I can't understand this "gun love" in US. 
It is not all about the criminals or idiots. Just look at the statistics for 
accidents with weapons. The only way to save lifes is to be very restrictive. 
If someone wants to shoot he can go to a shooting club and leave the weapon 
there. It is not freedom to have a gun at home. It is silly esp. with kids 
around.

You can't avoid killing with banning weapons but you can reduce it. If I need a 
weapon I call for police or security.

 

 

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com  
Version: 2015.0.6140 / Virus Database: 4435/10789 - Release Date: 10/10/15

Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings

[Darin Steffl]

I carry a .380 pistol with me most of the time but I only own three guns
myself. I also consider myself to have many Democratic views when it comes
to gun policy and Republican views with taxes & business aspects.

I personally think it should be MUCH harder to purchase a firearm than it
is. When I purchased my new glock, I ordered it online at Gander Mountain
and walked into the store, they did a quick background check and I walked
out in 10 minutes. It was great to me as a consumer and easy. BUT, what if
I was angry or in the heat of the moment and wanted to harm people. Now
that easy gun purchase allowed me to walk out the same day with a deadly
weapon.

I do not think our government is trying to take guns away as the crazy
Republicans like to lie about. I do think we should have much stricter gun
control though to keep the nutty people from having easy access. All that
is going to do is make it take longer to purchase a legal firearm, which I
am perfectly fine with if it prevents even one shooting death or mass
shooting.

If there's other policies being proposed that can help limit access to
guns, I'm all for it if it still allows me to purchase a pistol to carry
legally and a shotgun to go hunting. I don't believe I should be allowed to
own a machine gun type weapon for use at my home. Weapons like that should
be allowed only at shooting ranges and locked up under heavy security. They
do not belong at a residential home anywhere for sport or home protection.

So anyway, I think there are gun nuts out there that like to walk around
while open carrying and say Obama is trying to steal all our guns. I think
they're crazy and need a bonk on the head to come to your senses. Try
acting normal and conceal your weapon, don't talk like a crazy gun nut and
try to realize you don't need a machine gun.

The government's job is to protect as many citizens as possible. That means
more laws, more enforcement, and more compliance. We can't easily identify
and stop all people who will commit a shooting crime. We can more easily
target guns themselves and prevent the sale of them to as many "bad" people
as possible. For "good" and legal people who want to buy one, stop
complaining about gun control and embrace it in order to help save lives.
Gun control isn't meant for good people, only the bad people. You'll still
be able to buy any weapon you "need" in order to hunt or protect your home.

On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 5:48 AM, Gino Villarini  wrote:

> Freedom is not the exercise to choose whatever you want.  Heck then free
> all the child molesters! Human beings need to be controlled, that the whole
> reasoning behind laws.  Im with Jaime and Stefan on this.
>
> On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 6:28 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
>> There are many items that kill more humans than first world guns.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>> --
>> *From: *"Stefan Englhardt" 
>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Friday, October 9, 2015 11:21:43 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Campus Shootings
>>
>> Looking at this with a foreign view I can't understand this "gun love" in
>> US. It is not all about the criminals or idiots. Just look at the
>> statistics for accidents with weapons. The only way to save lifes is to be
>> very restrictive. If someone wants to shoot he can go to a shooting club
>> and leave the weapon there. It is not freedom to have a gun at home. It is
>> silly esp. with kids around.
>> You can't avoid killing with banning weapons but you can reduce it. If I
>> need a weapon I call for police or security.
>>
>>
>


-- 
Darin Steffl
Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com
507-634-WiFi
 Like us on Facebook