Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] uptone audio regen

[Mnyb]

jkeny wrote: 
 I think you might be confused between real  bonkers. By your above
 statement you are willing to believe in Swenson's device as a product
 that actually do something real because it has a plausible explanation.
 Yet no empirical evidence has been shown i.e. no measurements showing
 reduced USB signal integrity causing any noise issues  no evidence
 showing that the Regen actually addresses this. 
 
 It seems to me that what you consider bonkers about SBGK's MQN
 software player is that there is not a good story that convinces you.
 Dare I suggest that this is your bias in operation? Bias enters into
 more than just blind testing :) I happen to believe that MQN also
 addresses the same issue - noise intruding on the signal. It's just
 doesn't have as specific a use case as the Regen device does - MQN seems
 to effect system level noise, whereas the Regen is very specifically
 addressing USB noise issues   
 
 Ah, the old mantra here - that all properly designed DACs should:
 - sound the same through all inputs
 - sound the same as every other properly designed DAC

Well we have to wait and see if anyone test this product properly
ideally with several different USB DAC's it would be nice to the analog
out on DAC where this product is used .
And something have happened with DAC's the last decade you get good to
extreme performance everywhere ( it was not so in the 90's ) hence many
boutique designers go to tubes NOS design or old chips to be sure that
their design do sound different ;) or the latest fad with novel filter
designs




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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] PC internal Noise reduction products

[Mnyb]

doctor_big wrote: 
 It's an [ insert something ] circle jerk.. Move along.  Nothing to see
 here. 
 
 Jason

Is this not 95% of treads in any forum especially audioforums , endless
diskussions at full speed to nowhere #128526;




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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] PC internal Noise reduction products

[Mnyb]

Kind of reminndinds you of Luxmans integrated amps with a tube stage
somewhere , the tube was visible trough a small window in the front of
the amp :) was it in the early90's they did that ?




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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] uptone audio regen

[Mnyb]

rgro wrote: 
 If you think John's explanation that I referenced has some truth, then
 it would appear that most, if not all, USB dacs produce some level of
 internal noise from their USB processing chips.  And, I suspect many of
 us would be, or are, surprised at this.

There is always something I assume , but from archimagos blog you can
see a case where it's also an audible problem .

My initial jokes where ( as usual ) aimed at the typical magic bullet
thinking , must buyers of this product may not have an audible noise
problem but will have their veils lifted and blacker blacks between the
notes etc




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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] uptone audio regen

[Mnyb]

Archimago wrote: 
 Hey I'd love to try it out and compare to whether it reduces the 8kHz
 USB packet noise I reduced with the Corning optical USB a few weeks back
 in the blog post.
 
 Anyone in Vancouver with one for me to borrow :-)?

That was interesting that you have a case where this kind of noise
creeps trough the dac.

The surprising thing for me is that the DAC is not agnostic to this ?
Seems like a design error to me ?

There is probaly real use cases where this kind of product solves a real
problem . But it's not typically how its marketed and sold ,




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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] uptone audio regen

[Mnyb]

it does not have any tubes in it :P why is there no tube driven USB
outputs , this cant be good ;) cheers




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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] PC internal Noise reduction products

[Mnyb]

No linear supply with rectifier tubes for your pc ? ;)




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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Internet Blind Test: Linear vs. Minimum Digital Filters...

[Mnyb]

Good luck with this ! I can't be a test subject this time due to the
24/96 limit of my system .

However is any comparison done to the original ? I say if what if any of
the converted files sounds different ? They're really should not then we
might have got in the territory of pleasantly colouring artefacts . The
ones sounding different from the original is broken ?

Does any of the filters have a frequency drop inside of 20kHz ? There
have been many SoX filters suggested by some users over the years , some
quite unorthodox often made on the fly by for example convert.conf
settings in lms or by other means with other systems . Some of these
give a slight attenuation of the treble ? I always wondered if we just
have a fancy tone control here .




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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] I am overwhelmed by a tidal wave of goodness!!

[Mnyb]

NikolajC wrote: 
 I have also enjoyed FLAC streaming for some time, but I found the
 inability to search in the streams too much of a drawback - so I'm back
 to normal Wimp/Tidal again. Unless Ickstream now supports searching in
 the stream?
 
 PS: I don't think a digital signal can be above 0db actually.

Saddly it can if it has been subject to the loudness war overcompression
thing . It's not in the signal itself .
The overshoot occurres in the DAC usually in the over sampling filters ,
10 consecutive full word 0dB ( aka digital clipping ) or some such can
get even worse with some math some of these filters use .
Most DAC don't cater for this effect as it is abnormal and should not
happen with proper recordings .

Proper recordings even have headroom and never peaks at 0dB anywhere
,sadly we don't have proper recordings anymore .
If the producer finds that he can increase a song several dB by letting
it clip a couple of times ,that's what's going to happen .

Note that LMS 7.8 has a setting for default level on streaming sources
it's usually -5 dB set that to zero before comparing services with you
own files . Btw this setting is useful when listening to internet radio
it can be very loud sometimes .




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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Cable burn in

[Mnyb]

Having a carpet in front of the speakers like you do helps a bit with
early floor reflections in the midrange .




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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Cable burn in

[Mnyb]

Yes thats it if the output of the quipment does not change ( they
electrical output and the soundwaves are the same ) and you still
experience a difference, you are forced to find the explanation
somewhere else :)




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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Cable burn in

[Mnyb]

netchord wrote: 
 perception burn in- interesting concept.

Yes if you move speakers or move to another house, it sounds radically
different for while until you get used to it .
That said I've had bad and good rooms , the bad ones never sounded
really good regardless off time to settle for me or the equipment .




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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Cable burn in

[Mnyb]

Daverz wrote: 
 While I do hear differences between speaker cables, I've never heard
 this break-in phenomenon.  I've read that it is due to changes in the
 dielectric properties of the insulation, but I've never seen a reference
 to the physics or electrical engineering literature.

You would not really :) of course dielectric properties can change a bit
over the years but that's most likely a constant process it not stopping
anywhere after x hours .

It's one of those things that only happens in audio but are rarely
mentioned in the rest of electrical science .

This cable burn in is actually a knowable quantity .

Just measure a cable before burn in and after burn in ,it's that simple
. You will find that they measure the same . Hence the perceived
difference is not due to any electrical or acoustical change .

And if something would change what would it be , the only relevant
properties in audio frequencies are LCR , more exotic quantities does
not come into play your are not building a radar ?




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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Cable burn in

[Mnyb]

What  burns in  is your mind :)

Re cables as any reasonably designed cable is the same as any other ,
they can't per definition burn in as you can't hear them in the first
place .

And there is no property that change in any reasonable time span .
cables are the same for decades .

Maybe they burn a hole in wallet .




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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Digital Music Systems - track limits!?

[Mnyb]

JJZolx wrote: 
 It's pretty simple, really. There's a big difference between systems
 with servers running (mostly) on general purpose computers rather than
 having software running on the limited, low power hardware contained in
 many devices. It's exactly the same problem that Logitech ran in to when
 it misread the ability of the Touch to run Squeezebox Server. That's a
 big reason why those systems are often limited in library sizes.

+1 yes people thats own Sonos does not think they are runing any kind of
server , supose it's exactly whats going in the base unit but on limited
hardware .

They also have very limited tag support , i'm not and avanced tagged or
database guru , that's goes over my head in most of these treads .

But as sonos dont support more than one of each tag ? No multiple artist
or multiple genre or multiple anything tag .
You can't tag a thing with those limitations .

For example an album with an album artist then multiple track artist and
suppose that album is also a jazz album and a soundtrack to a movie or
whatever combination .




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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Digital Music Systems - track limits!?

[Mnyb]

Can it not be flash promed with all the 50 usual suspects in audiophile
music :D no internet 




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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Digital Music Systems - track limits!?

[Mnyb]

ralphpnj wrote: 
 Which is EXACTLY what 90% of the garbage on the HP Super Discs lists is
 - pure audiophile approved well recorded trash.

I meant on circuits soldered in the device not on removable media :D who
ever want to listen to something else




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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Digital Music Systems - track limits!?

[Mnyb]

reinholdk wrote: 
 Archimago, you should know better that you will not succeed with your
 business if you try to undercut the competition. You have to sell with a
 higher price!

Yes that's the weird economy for luxury items for the rich .

You sell more if you hike the price ! Porsche did that mistakes in the
80's and early 90's was it not some model that was relatively 
affordable so that just maybe a working class hero could get one if he
worked hard and saved up for it .

Sales took a nose dive , no one wants the the same brands as any j6p :)

To further increase the hype not even money should be enough , there
should be a waiting list and not any one can get one only a true
audiophile , warranty will be revoked if it's not used with 1000$ cables
...




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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Digital Music Systems - track limits!?

[Mnyb]

poing wrote: 
 Or a file sharer who doesn't pay for his music ;)

... thats the OCD people here with 45 tracks , you cant possible
listen to that even if you did not have a day job and did it for 10
hours a day . and then only listen once  :D

65k is quite possible given that your now in your middle ages and you
and your spouse have collected music all your life , quite feasible not
at all weird . add a kid or two with their own music files .
I can easily see it go trough the 65k limit .




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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Digital Music Systems - track limits!?

[Mnyb]

Archimago wrote: 
 Okay. Fine. I have seen the light!
 
 $12,500.01 it is.
 
 Not a penny less! And to optimize the performance of this server
 machine, it'll have a 8GB vintage 10-year-old flash drive (because those
 were the quietest drives of course!). 2X DVD burner circa 2001 approved
 by some-elderly-tube-gear-maker-in-Japan, probably made by Creative. And
 I'll settle on a 1TB drive with no upgrades available. I know, 256GB
 would have been better (with less electrical noise of course) and
 probably would be fine for those who only listen to a few audiophile
 albums like 'Kind Of Blue', Diana Krall discography, 'Jazz In The
 Pawnshop'...
 
 On the software side, it'll just have to be stripped to the bone with
 our Linux install. Might need to wrestle a little to get everything to
 fit on 8GB flash (Vortexbox, LMS, caches...). Of course no other
 packages or extraneous background daemons; that would just destroy the
 sound quality.
 
 Dual-core Atom for netbooks would be good enough, anything faster would
 also damage the sound. And of course 2GB RAM is plenty.
 
 Add aeronautical milled aluminum fascia.
 
 Clearly: The. Ultimate. Serving. Machine.
 
 Enjoy!
 
 :-)

I can be the European distributor with a hefty markup at at least 50% or
more , we are used to oligopoly situations and no competition regarding
American or Japanese high end here in Europe . To defeat grey market and
used import we can outfit the device with a circuit that sense the 50Hz
AC and turn it off unless I have it it in for service for a
substantial fee ofcourse  . Wait that sounds familiar did not Krell do
that for a while :D (it is actually true , google  )




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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Tidal launch review

[Mnyb]

In the land of the blind the one eyed is king

Where i live its spotify or wimp . So i try both at the moment . Wonder
if i can try tidal to ? The ios app is it different ?

My beef with spotify is its horrible ios app and wimp is not much
better meh :/




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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Tidal launch review

[Mnyb]

hsmeets wrote: 
 Aren't tidal and wimp the same? Or at least closely related

Yes but some diffs in design and user experience




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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Last words on PONO...

[Mnyb]

stroom wrote: 
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/pono-player-and-promises-fulfilled

Interesting review a lot off things about which headphones to use .

So the designer is of the zero feedback faith and apodising filter faith
.

Any one used the store yet to buy some music .




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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Last words on PONO...

[Mnyb]

Apesbrain wrote: 
 Another recent review and some measurements here:
 http://www.stereophile.com/content/pono-ponoplayer-portable-music-player

Thanks that put even more insigths to it .

Where to start , if you for religious reasons resorts to filters that
re-introduce aliasing artifacts in the audio ( just like a very cheap
soundcard ) this compromise performance for 16/44.1 and then also sell
the beliefs that 24/192 is necessary :rolleyes:

I do smell some cargo cult engineering here here as these probably well
designed but novel no global feedback designs do exhibits more
distortion and varying modulated I say output impedance which the
designer actually deludes in thinking its a feature !
Zero global feedback designs typically always sounds better for reasons
unexplained and he also believes that ABX and DBT does not work
:rolleys: yes they do they cancel you bias for zero feedback designs and
novel filter topology .

Like the other review exposed I migth just use my iPad Air , the latest
generation tablets and phones are that good , for my music on the go
needs .

My interest in this products is somewhat diminished , given the chance
in a store or something I would still listen to it . But I would not
mail order it in blind faith and hope it will be good .




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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Bob Dylan's Shadows In The Night - when 24-bit HRA isn't!

[Mnyb]

Archimago wrote: 
 Yup... All valid points and I wish we could just have straightforward
 information on pedigree. Like the SPARS code in the old days, it was all
 meant to be a simple designation. The Wiki notes both Lack of detail
 and Implications of quality as very valid criticisms as well. However,
 we're in the wild west in terms of hi-res currently and I think almost
 any designation would be better than nothing at this point even if it
 is an oversimplification!
 
 Dammit man, stop with the DSD crap, guys :-). So has anyone bought an
 actual DSD download yet?!

Yes I have :) to test the play DSD plugin I bougth some classical stuff
actually recorded in DSD . Of course it sounded good the recording was
well engineered .

The problem is the lack of real content .

HD tracks et all have at least real music by musicians you heard of or
that have actual musical chops .

No audiophile Muzak .

On the DSD topic I don't see converting to pcm in a DAW software ( 32
bit floating piont pcm at some high samplerate ) as a problem such
software is transpararent and does it it job as it should . The
DSD-ness of it happen at the AD stage if it exists and that is
preserved .

And to throw another spanner in the works , modern ADC's are somewhat
not really PCM they can be of the 1-5 delta sigma type .
1 bit sounds awfully similar to DSD to me with the exception that you
get PCM output out of the decimation filter.

Well in your DAW software you produce well sounding recordings if you
want that ( they don't always want to ) this by the intrisinic
soundquality a totally transparent process , you get the intended
production values but added extra distortion is really minimal .

You can the proceed to pick a consumer format to release your work in .

My pow is with modern recording techniques the recording format and
consumer format are decoupled and the process between is transparent .
Provided you release in better or equal to reedbook CD .




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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Bob Dylan's Shadows In The Night - when 24-bit HRA isn't!

[Mnyb]

Other things to consider .

HD tracks have a lot of 24/192 that actually are SACD rips ? what about
the ultrasonic grunge in those ? and how to classify that .

More interesting why not use the intrinsic resolution in the recording
itself as a benchmark .

Old analog 60's rock classic master 11bit 17khz yes with modern
dithering s/n ratio and bits are equivalent (for factual info about that
http://xiph.org/video/vid2.shtml ). then the buyer can decide for
himslef if more random noise is worth the extra $ .

Real progress would be to have some pedigree of the master used ? so
that the situation with different masters for different resolutions
can be avoided .




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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Bob Dylan's Shadows In The Night - when 24-bit HRA isn't!

[Mnyb]

Wombat wrote: 
 I have no idea if this helps. None if it guarantees good sound.
 My biggest problem with downloads in online shops today is how the
 16/44.1 version is created from the HiBit version in the same shop. It
 is a gamble. When asking before buying you normaly get no answer.

Yes if the 24/192 , 24/96 and 16/44.1 version really sounds dramatically
different from any download vendor I would be -realy- suspicious .

Fraud , r,ember they sell homeopathic medics in stores , they do nothing
. Tha active ingredient is in the buyer , placebo etc .

You can turn the argument if the 16/44.1 really doesn't any different
from the 24/192 they are practically eqvavilent to the consumer , unless
he gets to know the facts then cognitive bias deflates .

Same is the frauds with healt products with some active herbs or other
product with alleged positive effects that really does nothing .
Recently many producers of supplementary and alternative medicin
realised this and thus you get only filler .
Why spend $$$ on the magic herb that actualy doesn't do anything :)

So when is this a fraud .

Sell a  magic potion  and claim all kinds of stuff for it , that the
magic ingredient X does all this .
When in fact it does nothing it's all placebo .

Or exclude ingredient X due to cost cuts ,the products does exactly the
same thing .

This would be even more fun with homeopathic drugs the claimed
mechanism for their effect makes it actually impossible to
scientifically trace any active ingredient . If you just fill a bottle
with water or dilute a solution so much that it practically becomes a
bottle of water they are the same :D

( an OT  would be all alternative stuff that's actually spiked with real
active ingredients , gongrats you self medicate with unknown doses of
unknown substances )




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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Bob Dylan's Shadows In The Night - when 24-bit HRA isn't!

[Mnyb]

Wombat wrote: 
 I lately was shopping for the last Ben Howard and asked qobuz about the
 different versions but got no answer. I did bite the bullet and got me
 the 24/48 version after finding no real info on the net.
 The 24/48 version is indeed 5dB less compressed. Imho i should be able
 to choose between a compressed and uncompressed 16/44.1 version for the
 lower price then.
 I don't like the idea having to buy the more expensive HiBit version
 because it is treated different by purpose.
 Everybody should help to fill the Dynamic Range Database for finding out
 more about that. I was to lazy till now.

Wonder if they digged themself into a hole a marketing catch 22 .

Once remastered was a name for an improved version of the work . This
get totally out of hand many so called remasters are bothced up work to
get some oldie sound more modern and to add insult to injury then why
not squash the dynamics while at it .

So the new tag line is hirez , so now they must put it in bigger box .

Some very few rational audiophiles would actually believe them if they
put a wide dynamic version in a 16/44.1 box and tried to sell it .

But I agree that it s fraudulent by an online vendor to actually sell
different versions to just make them sound different just for the sake
of it .
So HD tracks or Qubus should just downsample thier precius 24/192 to
16/44.1 fair enough .
But then it's the next marketing cup de sac , they hammered in that
HiRez sounds better so it has to . The only way to do that is to sell
different versions apples and oranges :)




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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] CD's vs. vinyl

[Mnyb]

Found some history here .

http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/early-pop-rock-full-digital-recordings.211920/

And here .

http://www.aes.org/aeshc/pdf/fine_dawn-of-digital.pdf




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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] CD's vs. vinyl

[Mnyb]

OT fell free to direct me to another tread if one exist .

Really old CD's can have pre-emphasise aplied they then the CD player
used its de-emphasis filter to counteract ?
( a rise in the treble to avoid noise in the recording equipment , the
subsequent damping of it in the playback system )

What happens when we rip such CD I suspect that this info gets lost ? Do
you know a way to regognises this a marking on the cd case , put it in a
25 year old CD player and watch the de-emp ligth come on ?
Is there a de-emp filter for foobar or dBpower amp etc ?




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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] CD's vs. vinyl

[Mnyb]

cliveb wrote: 
 Early CDs did not sound universally bad. One of the first CDs I bought
 was Pictures at an Exhibition on Telarc (Cleveland Orchestra, Maazel).
 It sounded fabulous back in the 1980s and still sounds fabulous today.
 
 
 My first CD player was a Philips 104 - which I believe was only a 14 bit
 machine. I don't still have it, but seem to recall that it sounded just
 fine. Perhaps a little relaxed and laid back, but very enjoyable
 nonetheless.

Daverz wrote: 
 There were definitely some really awful early digital recordings.  Some
 of the DDD recordings Karajan made, for example.  Levine's Mahler 9 on
 RCA is another example.  There are recordings from the 1930s that I find
 more listenable as recordings.

Much as it is now then some truly horrible recordings some very good .

But to your pleasure I think the classical recording engineer have
mastered the technology !

We with other musical tastes suffer more but for other reasons .

Do you also think that the idea that all this was because early digital
was bad is an oversimplification ? I think so .
Sure it it was limited but so was the analog euipment it replaced ?
It must been some great relearning in the recording industry in the
early days .

I do wonder when dither became commonplace in professional AD conversion
and if there was real improvements to be heard ?

Was it not Sony and 3M that pioneered some early 14bit recording
equipment that actually camps to be used in some comercial recordings
wonder how these recordings fare .

I suspect ( partly knows ) that a studio can be a real lash up job :)
money and time , I don't think they suddenly throw out everything and
started fresh ? Wonder how long it took for the modern workflow to
emerge ?




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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] CD's vs. vinyl

[Mnyb]

I do think it's a bit of a culture/future shock when cd was released .
We where simply used to how the vinyl sounded and vinyl is not really
the same as good analog ( reel to,reel tape is ) . And maybe just maybe
there was something to  digital ready  after al ;) some equipment
migth not have been able to handle it .

The following would be interesting to do .

Pop in some really old cd in your current system does it still sound
horrible .

Dig up some really old CD player conect it to your current system does
it still sounds as bad as remembered .




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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Stereophile's Chinese Wall between advertising and editorial departments

[Mnyb]

andy_c wrote: 
 Don't get me started on non-oversampling DACs!
 
 There's an obsolete chip made by Philips, the TDA1541A, that's become a
 fetish item in high-end circles.  '_Here_is_but_one_web_page_'
 (http://www.lampizator.eu/lampizator/TDA1541%20corner/TDA1541.html)
 devoted to singing its praises.  It's pretty clear to anyone with any
 technical knowledge at all that the contents of that page from
 Lampizator are complete nonsense, and yet this guy is considered to be
 some sort of high-end audio guru!  What a sad state of affairs.

Oh no , not that :D this lampizator guy also has a tube driven digital
output :confused: Yes you can use some HF radio tube for such an output
stage ! and ofcourse it's sounds better for unknown or unknowable
reasons you know it's a tube so it has the pixie dust that makes stuff
better .




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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Stereophile's Chinese Wall between advertising and editorial departments

[Mnyb]

cliveb wrote: 
 Forgive me if I've misunderstood your position here, but you seem to be
 giving Stereophile some points for bothering to measure the device and
 publish the figures.
 
 But: having measured this DAC and discovered how catastrophically broken
 it is, the review bends over backwards to find some kind of mitigating
 factors. Stuff like saying that it sounds nice in the mid range, where
 most music signal sits. WTF?
 
 Come on guys: if the device had been a $100 DAC from China, do you
 really think Stereophile's review would have said anything other than
 This is a pile of junk, fit only for a dumpster? How does the fact
 that it's pretty and costs a fortune change anything? The fact that they
 fail to call it out despite having the appalling evidence staring them
 in the face is just mind boggling.

probably depends on said manufacturers ad budget 

yes i'm probably a to nice guy :) acustomed to read streophile between
the lines sometimes .




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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Stereophile's Chinese Wall between advertising and editorial departments

[Mnyb]

and further they risk to upsett more than one brand . one fundamental
myth of high end is that price corelates strongly to soundquality that
you can not get perfection for less than multiple 1000$ . 30k$ dac are
common or 100k$ preamps ?

So i'm surprised that they even dare to say that something expensive
whatsoever is slighlty bad :D




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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Stereophile's Chinese Wall between advertising and editorial departments

[Mnyb]

Gandhi wrote: 
 That thread mentions an absolute goldmine of crazy. Bury most of your
 face in pillows and read with eyes half-closed! You have been warned.
 http://www.stereophile.com/content/zanden-5000-mkivsignature-da-converter-2000-premium-cd-transport-measurements

andy_c wrote: 
 Wow, the measurements of that DAC really suck!  A bargain at $15,470! :D

To JA's credit he really bash the product but probably holds back a bit
due to comercial concerns . The truth is any supermarket 50$ DVD player
outperforms it even the revised performance with the other sample .
So actually stereophile is doing well pointing out that it does suck .

It's a lovely piece of kit in that I higligths so many wrongs at the
same time . Let's mention just a few of them .

What kind of cargo cult delusion went trough the designers head ? analog
absolute phase switch ? And that probably just the beginning of all
flawed designed deciosn made .

This points out the necessity of measurments in hifi reviews . High end
brands can make very weird stuff that needs to be singled out and more
normal brands can make honesty mistakes .

Let's measure an audio note DAC voodoo design galore:P and also some
modern home theater amp the complex functionality of those makes
mistakes likly software bugs etc .

It's also interesting to see how the subjective review fails and the
necessity to improve these . The listening sessions must improve and be
blinded somehow , but an open part is needed to asses look and feel and
functionality .
Blind part can be weeks it does not need to be 30 second snippets , just
saying .

It's also tells how hard it's is to do and how high the human hearing
treshold really are , the performance is abysmal but they still can
listen to it . Tells something on how random a subjective review would
be on a well performing product where all artefacts are below human
hearing tresholds...

And the audiophile culture that embraces such products stratospheric
price tags steampunk design esthetics some mystics and smoke and mirrors
then nano seconds of jitter is just fine :D whereas such a thing is a
liability in other more normal products , it's completely irrational ?

These kind of products is a large part of the ad revenue ? For more fun
follow some of the ads on the website ?
Of the adds where more normal no audioquest or similar the editorial
policies would more possible to actually enforce and be somewhat in the
interest of all parties . The will ofcourse still be conflicts of
interest .

And a normal hifi brand would be probaly be more able to suck up a bad
review if they trusted the magazine , but as it is now when any garbage
can be praised and good products gets doomed by the  God for its price
 moniker ( remeber it's must be expensive to be high end :P ) .

Is seems like audimagazines have resorted to never give bad reviews or
so subjective ones that no reader can really make any assumptions and
then scoop in the ad revenue .

It does not have to be a direct conspiracy an indirect way makes it even
better. Magizine makes random harmless articles on very posh and
expensive stuff and ad department sells ads to brands accommodating to
that market .
Brand x does not have to buy a good review ! Magizes just have to
nurture a culture of wideyed gullible marks that willingly accepts this
culture and it's values .

But I'm very suspicious of the direct product recommendations some
British hifi rags do ? Hmm .

But this makes very bad consumer oriented journalism , no reader gets
any help to actually further his/hers interst in Audio and HiFi . You
don't get any more knowledgeable in the science on how audio really
works or any solid product advice .




Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Stereophile's Chinese Wall between advertising and editorial departments

[Mnyb]

ralphpnj wrote: 
 Exactly my point - while Stereophile's measurements may be revealing and
 useful to a knowledgeable reader who understands how to read and
 interpret them, JA's remarks about how the measurements relate to the
 equipment's sound are pure marketing BS.

The really silly part , he fails to see the very obvious solution to why
the subjective reviews and measurments don't add up .

Non blind testing gives any kind of biased results , the overall
conclusion I would do after years of measuring stuff that's totally
transparent to human listeners and my subjective reviewers comes up with
very weird results that's does not correlate with measurments would be
to review the listening process used .




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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Reformed Audiophile True Confessions

[Mnyb]

andy_c wrote: 
 Same here!  In fact, I decided to get into EE because of my interest in
 the hobby back in the 1970s.
 
 
 
 Same here again!
 
 Here are some of my previous blunders:
 
 In the mid 1980s through the early 1990s, I bought:
 Linn Sondek turntable
 
 Magnepan MGIII speakers
 Upon arriving home, I read the manual, only to find that they
 recommended sending the ribbon tweeters back to the factory once a year
 for rebuild.  According to the manual, It's the price we pay for the
 highest quality sound reproduction.  Of course, none of the reviews of
 the speakers mentioned this, nor did anyone at the place that sold them.
 I wonder why?  Speaking of the place that sold them, it was an audio
 shop in Woodland Hills, CA whose name I can't recall.  The people there
 would not even help me get the beasts into my car.  Two years later, the
 speakers started making a buzzing sound due to delamination of the
 voice coil from the mylar diaphragm to which they are glued.
 When they worked properly, they did sound good though.
 
 Krell preamp
 Krell KSA-100 class A amp
 Great heater for those hot summer days!
 
 Various audiophile CD players.  At least three of these died after one
 year's use.
 In the early 2000s, I bought a universal player.  I got into DVD-A back
 when Fry's Electronics was selling them for $12 apiece.  Some of them
 sound really good, like Workingman's Dead and American Beauty.  But
 these are remixes.  I have since ripped them to FLAC using DVD-A
 Explorer.

Linn is a very good example on marketing on the slightly shady side .

they  discovered  that the source component was the most important
part of an audio system , while in the beginning they did nothing but
said source component the LP12 :) so now you where to place a
disproportionate amount of £££ on the TT , their TT .

And with the CD12 they probably broke the wall of shame on how
ridiculously expensive a CD player could be .

But only after years spreading the FUD about vinyls superiority , and
prat what was that really :D  pace rhythm and timing  they and naim
invented this and it can ofcourse not be quantified an any scientific
way .




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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Reformed Audiophile True Confessions

[Mnyb]

We Done this before , but honorably candidates from my long and sordid
career as an audiophile crackpot was all those cables ? Including Varius
VdH alpha core and audio quests ,caldera speaker wires and those really
silly signal cables with batteries :confused: to bias the dielectric ...
( all,of it bs ) pointy cones to place under equipment .

Basically changing to much equipment to often to chase the next thing .

All of leftover audiophile cables are recycled by now . I did not sell
them I did not want to profit from this myself and further spread the
disease .

I'll predict this will be a short tread , not many will admit in a
public forum that they been had and conned for decades ? I've did it
before so I'm only repeating myself .

The really stupid part is that I'm a person who should know better being
an electrical engineer ...

People wihtout engineering or scientific background have better excuses
.
Some of the technobabble spouted by audiophile manufacturers have a
plausible ring to it so I understand why people are fooled .

i think my own involvement in the general sceptic movement actually made
me see the errors in my own ways .
Audiophilia is just a smal part of more general problem . Alternative
medicin and other healt scams are the big ones you have billions of
dollars sunk into these so it's not likely to go away soon . But I think
it's a worthy cause .
If you go for root cause analysis , our ability to be fooled is behind
much of our problems .

Don't get me started on anti vaccine people , you know measles are back
in the U.S.  now the idiots actually managed to brake the heard imunity
.

That's why I present myself as an example that we can all be fooled ,
and I'm convinced that this is not a harmless problem . Buying the
audiophile scam ( or any other scam or cult ) can erode your ability for
critical thinking .




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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Ethernet Cable and Audio...

[Mnyb]

Gandhi wrote: 
 Maybe I'll treat myself to a shiny, new Ethernet cable.

The silver in them must be hand forged by singing virgins in the
moonlight or possibly elfs . Otherwise they won't do .




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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Ethernet Cable and Audio...

[Mnyb]

Julf wrote: 
 Unfortunately I have already come across audiophiles arguing that the
 demonstration is pointless, as the intermediate digital steps don't
 matter - the point of the Very Expensive Audiophool Ethernet Cable is to
 isolate your music streamer from the nasty noise in computers (and I
 guess routers)...

So the argument is that ethernet and tcp-IP works as designed , but for
some reason not in the last step to the player :) by that logic one
should insert an extra switch and a short piece of this super expensive
cable  How convient .

And actually Archimago just disproved that argument by actually showing
the measurments ? Did they not read the blog ?




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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Ethernet Cable and Audio...

[Mnyb]

netchord wrote: 
 is '$8.98 super expensive?'
 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GK5UI06/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8psc=1)
 
 i recently switched from transporter connected wirelessly, to wired w/
 the above cable to an Airport Extreme, which in turn connects wirelessly
 to another AE that has a wired connection (via same cable) to my
 router.
 
 and it sounds better than wireless.
 
 the reason for the switch really had little to do with the transporter,
 but with some other equipment (Apple TV) that was having issues.  if i
 had to characterize the difference, i'd say greater dynamic range.
 
 but better in any event.
 
 go figure.

Not the switch, I already have one for other reasons smart TV ir
emitters etc , the joke was to insert it just so that I can use the
super expensive ethernet cable for the last meters :) I have my main
players on ehternet already .




Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Ethernet Cable and Audio...

[Mnyb]

philippe_44 wrote: 
 Quick question: you've lost me here ... I fully agree with you wrt the
 insanities I'm reading like this NAS or this hardrive is giving a much
 deeper sound - this is laughable, but intermediate steps do not matter,
 they really don't. Your signal can come from Mars, being encoded with a
 on a RF carrier with any sort of phase, frequency, amplitude, spreading
 modulation, then carried light (EM still) on optical fiber cables, then
 transmitted by people beating drums if you want, it does not matter at
 all - that's why we have invented error correction codes, to make all
 this lossless (oh well, okay, yes, the BER is never 0 but it can be as
 low as you want, as long as you do not try to violate Shannon's
 theorem). But, when you do the D/A conversion, this is where shit
 happens and this where also noise can be re-injected by some proximity
 interferers - but this is very close proximity, not the ethernet cable
 between my computer source and the next switch.
 
 Maybe I missed your point

It is a slight possibility to inject noise at the last leg , but as
Archimagos measurment shows it does not actually happen in practice with
normal equipment he uses rather crummy switches etc to hammer in the
piont . And if the player has some of the shelf recovering circuit it
would also work just fine .

The ethernet interface is engineered to be rather trouble free . It
would be rare exceptional cases when this do not work . It is two
current loops with isolation in both ends rather low impedance in bot
sender and reciever so it's not prone to pick up noise by design .

In industrial environments you could sometimes use shielded cat cables ,
but at home they are not necessary and actually could be one of these
rare cases when can get a noise problem ! so the default is not to use
shielded cat cables at home then you migth just connect the computer
ground to your hifi ground .

So in practical use you don't see weird noise transfer that interfere
with the DAC it would pop out in this kind of test .

And the kicker is that if you have this exceptionally rare problem an
audiophile cable is not the solution :) they don't provide anything you
could not get in another cable from a normal vendor . And if they do
it's often of spec  modifications  that makes them worse than standard
cables .




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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Ethernet Cable and Audio...

[Mnyb]

Sorry for rambling , some cables do for example provide silver
conductors which in this aplication makes no difference what so ever .
So some high ends mods are not harmful they just do nothing at all .




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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Ethernet Cable and Audio...

[Mnyb]

I'm cheaper than you :) I can change my opinions completely for no more
than 200k$ I'm investing in a new apartment . I'll photograph my hifi
rig with all the fancy cables and publish in any hifi fora of your
choice .

Cable vendors please pm me ...

But joking aside a pity that the throughput was not better but it proved
another point everything works perfectly until it does not , anything in
the player buffer will play just the same . no subtle degrading of sound
. Ethernet is truly something else than the typical audio interface its
designed to work this way .

As pointed out you can make a measurable difference with cables not fit
for purpose in the *spdiff interface* this interface is much more
sensitive .
But can you hear it ? differences at those low levels is generally
completely inaudible . The classic experiment of using steel coat
hangers as spdif cables comes to mind , this probably disturbs the
interface a bit , if I may guess . Proper cabling is prudent .

Audiophiles go about it the wrong way they argue for specific tweaks or
at the moment hyped things or cables (thank you audio pre$$ ) .

IF they truly understood the scientific method :

1. First prove that we can discern stuff down at -110dB with music
playing at the same time . The general consensus in reality (not in la
la la land ) is that when the noise or distortion is that far below any
threshold of hearing the character or source of the disturbance does not
matter it can be very nasty but you wont hear it no matter what. If you
again find that we cant forget the rest. Everything with this low levels
of problem is transparent .Proof is a blind study sighted testing are
always to biased to serve as information at all .
This is a general case the door would open to many things..

2. Congrats .You managed to prove that human hearing is magnitudes
better then previously believed . Now its time to test any digital
transport of reasonably proper design wallmart DVD player or better . Do
screen for high end cargo cult designs some of these are actually broken
by design and cant be used ,but some will be very well made and perform
excellent . As proven many times no decent DAC changes it output with
different transports the signal leaving the DAC is the same in any case
. Yet another round of tedious DBT tests But this is again a genral
case just prove that any transport within reasonable performance makes
any difference .

3. Wov amazing you done it ,now we can start even thinking about cables
.

Or just scrap all that and uses some reasoning, occams razor and
probablity comes to my mind .

Someone claims a results that breaks the laws of physic and there is no
known mechanism to explain it  . they are two systems to consider . ( In
this thought experiment we exclude the charlatans making the $$$ their
bias is very simple .)

1. a very simple electronic system with fully understood science (yes
audio is more or less fully understood there is no great mystery ,
another myth keept alive by the usual suspects ) this system behaves
very well and is predictable .
every run gives the same result .

2. A person with a human brain , its awesomely complex and poorly
understood , the personality and experience is not predicable and
subject to countless cognitive biases . The complexity and unknowns
involved are truly humbling .

Faced with a result that seems to brake the rules and are truly
fantastic where would your investigation start :) I choose door nr 2  .
It's just overwhelmingly more likely .
In fact so overwhelmingly likely that the burden of proof is on the
person making these fantastical claims .




Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Ethernet Cable and Audio...

[Mnyb]

Thanks for trying . Pity the link was not fast enough for every test or
listening .

Now maybe i should pay for an 100mB uplink :) that would make streaming
trouble free from where ever i'm at , before Spotify i used to do this
when travelling  to get music to my hotell .inside Sweden the hotel
network is usually the weak link so I used LMS to transcode . I do
travell a lot in my work .

Well I close my server tomorrow or tonight then .




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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Ethernet Cable and Audio...

[Mnyb]

Yea yeah I put my end of the cable on cable lifters :rolleyes:




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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Ethernet Cable and Audio...

[Mnyb]

kidstypike wrote: 
 It also helps if you use these for storage:
 http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/sony-announces-100-premium-sound-memory-card-for-audiophiles
 :confused:

If we are to trust absolute sound all hope is gone Archimago copied the
test files to his ftp server from which I then copied them again to my
desktop and then copied them again to my server .

Yep don't ever forgive these lunatics at Absolute sound for producing
that article on digital audio , if you forget they claimed that copies
sound different :confused: among literally pages of complete nonsense .

So henceforth you rip the music to a special drive where they sit and
you move that drive to your new computer until it breaks then you rip
again , in their world there can be no backup . :D

Maybe to some of these Sony Hifi SD cards ..




Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD  SqueezePad
(spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Ethernet Cable and Audio...

[Mnyb]

ralphpnj wrote: 
 That time difference is going to really going to add some delay to the
 music. Archimago most likely will still be listening to the first
 movement of Beethoven's Ninth Symphony while back in Västerås you'll be
 singing Ode to Joy :)

More worried about relativistic jitter (TM) that does horrible things
to audio if you are on diffrent sides of a planet. Even more so if I
where on a body with diffrent gravity :D




Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD  SqueezePad
(spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Ethernet Cable and Audio...

[Mnyb]

Archimago wrote: 
 Yup... Let's do this man. PM'ed you!

DL'ed the files they are in my server ,sorry for the dealy feel asleep
.

There is a time difference 23:20  in Toronto 05:20 in Västerås  +- some
jitter :D




Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD  SqueezePad
(spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Ethernet Cable and Audio...

[Mnyb]

Julf wrote: 
 I hope you didn't take the boat. I still remember the times I did the
 crossing in the cheap cabins at the water line back in my student days -
 those ships are class A1 ice breakers, but the noise of the ice hitting
 the hull right at where your bunk is is something else...

Nope flying dont have time when i'm working




Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD  SqueezePad
(spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Ethernet Cable and Audio...

[Mnyb]

Back from my trip to Finland , still interest in long distance ethernet
test . Looking at your comment field for this blog, it starts to get a
bit nutty .


Wonder if you get discount from audioquest if you wish to cross the
atlantic with thier cable :rolleyes:




Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD  SqueezePad
(spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Ethernet Cable and Audio...

[Mnyb]

I have 100/10 mb ethernet rigth into my wall I'm curently at work in
another country i'll pm when I'm back unless someone else does it :)




Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD  SqueezePad
(spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Ethernet Cable and Audio...

[Mnyb]

Wonder how the poor sod's using wimp/tidal are having it . We must
insist that they wire up with those silver ethernet cables :rolleyes:
and change their SATA cables .




Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD  SqueezePad
(spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Ethernet Cable and Audio...

[Mnyb]

Julf wrote: 
 But you can't measure what we hear :)
 
 
 
 I guess the only frontier remaining unmeasured is the issue of
 supposedly bit-perfect, but better player software.

Oh think our hero used some of these in another blog ? Or at least loads
his pc close to 100% with other task at the same time .




Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD  SqueezePad
(spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Ethernet Cable and Audio...

[Mnyb]

Julf wrote: 
 I am thinking about starting an audiophile internet service provider,
 where all cables and routers are proper audiophile spec stuff...

To really bury this issue we could place the test files on our servers
and temporarily portforward LMS and let Archimago measure :D




Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD  SqueezePad
(spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Ethernet Cable and Audio...

[Mnyb]

Julf wrote: 
 I am thinking about starting an audiophile internet service provider,
 where all cables and routers are proper audiophile spec stuff...

Include free streaming of jazz at the pawnshop and i'm on .




Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD  SqueezePad
(spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Ethernet Cable and Audio...

[Mnyb]

Archimago wrote: 
 :-)
 
 Actually I can do this already because my dad has a Touch across town
 that links to my home server. I seriously hope we don't need to do this
 kind of extreme testing to prove a point about digital data integrity
 and the ability for the devices to buffer enough of the data so there's
 no jitter issues!

My idea was that the extreme realy is from another continent :-)

And audiophile music it really is a genre of its own , why no real
artists , why simplistic arrangements that showcases one instrument at
the time , why so bland that it can not offend anyone ( or engage anyone
).
Some of these labels even sound the same stockfish records for example a
lot of echo for atmosphere airy highs and some exaggerated bass slam .

Actually Jazz at pawnshop,is a standout it's not intended as test record
, it's simply a live performance from the 70's that got disproportionate
distrubution outside of its cultural context .
Probably cool for the people that was at the venue to buy a copy but
then what ?




Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD  SqueezePad
(spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Moved to Squeezebox way of things... best strategy for my Hires/ DSD/ ISO files?

[Mnyb]

Gazjam wrote: 
 Heh.
 touche. :)
 
 No axe to grind chaps, just getting back into the swing of things.
 
 As always, more than one way to skin a cat.

Or play a Vinyl , lot of chaps here are actually digitising their stuff
, they do retain the cherished euphonics of their origin (test have been
done decades ago you cant hear the difference )

with the wonder of dither (since the early 90's ) a digital system
actually behaves like the perfect analog system that never was a signal
and a noise a very low noise floor the noise of the same character as
tape hiss sounds familiar i does :) no stairsteps or fragmented
resolution

have a fun saturday with this video http://xiph.org/video/vid2.shtml




Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD  SqueezePad
(spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Moved to Squeezebox way of things... best strategy for my Hires/ DSD/ ISO files?

[Mnyb]

probedb wrote: 
 That's really odd. The compression has no effect on decompression time
 for FLAC afaik. If you use a higher number to compress it doesn't make
 it any more difficult to decompress.
 
 Even my original Slim Devices SB3 has never once tripped on a single
 FLAC, 16/44.1 or 24/96 and they're all done -8.

it is a cornercase probably even content dependent and also some flac
decoders are not developed by the flac project itself and can use novel
features .

A couple of years ago users reported this and it helped by reflac to -5
. SB3 cant trip on 24/96 as the server downsample to 24/48 flac . this
was only reported for 24/96 .

Btw was it the OP that wanted to knwo where the gain settings where ?


+---+
|Filename: Screenshot.jpg   |
|Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=17362|
+---+



Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD  SqueezePad
(spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Moved to Squeezebox way of things... best strategy for my Hires/ DSD/ ISO files?

[Mnyb]

What's wrong with pretty box :) transporter is a classic . Personally I
have a Touch and as digital transport it's exatly as god as my meridian
DVDA player ( as any decently functional digital transport nowadays any
oppo or better ) .

The TP is darn cool , re  old  digital audio took giant leaps in the
80's and early 90's anything  past 2k has the potential to be
transparent including the old TP .

These discussion is most like how many Angels can dance on top of a pin
holding a pin with more dancing Angels ...

A functional digital transport is just that , async USB is technically
better if correctly implemented but you won't hear that . A decent spdif
is certainly good enough .

Old DSD64 SACD rips are probably best at 24/48 pcm so that the
ultrasonic cruft can be removed.

But Touch is more flexible it has a value to be able to play more
formats without invoking the server transcoding .

On the other hand it's solution in search for a problem IMO .
You have a 24/192 of an album make a 24/96 copy or why didn't you buy
the 24/96 in the first place and save some $$ they sound the same .

DSD the very very few musically valid downloads you can get comercially
guess what they are often aviable as 24/96 :)
On the other hand the very few DSD only downloads can probably be
converted too .
Or you have the excellent play DSD plugin at hand I have 2-3 DSD albums
very good recordings indeed , novelty value .
No music I care for is released DSD only .

For 99% of your music collection as a pure digital transport TP , Touch
or DIY PI thing (tm) will be the same .
For the 1% hirez oddities you have they will differ but you won't hear
it unless the conversion path is broken .

The Transporter has value due to,it's DAC with selectable analog out
attenuators  .

Hmm I would certainly not mind the transporter as a functional bit of
audio history :)

But when my Touches bites the dust , I would probably nag you all in the
picore or something else tread ..




Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD  SqueezePad
(spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Moved to Squeezebox way of things... best strategy for my Hires/ DSD/ ISO files?

[Mnyb]

paulster wrote: 
 One thing I'll add is that if you DAC can handle DSD then you might be
 able to consider encoding your DSD music into DoP FLAC format, so it is
 still native DSD but inside a PCM wrapper.
 
 Only thing I'm not sure of is whether 24/96 is a sufficiently-sized
 container for it.  If it is then you wouldn't have to have any
 conversion of your native DSD material, and the Transporter will merrily
 think it's playing PCM.

No 24/96 is not enough for DoP .

I concur with the idea to use flac as much as possible for the
transporter I suggest not to use the highest compression rates for 24/96
something like -5 would do , Transporter can on rare occasions hiccup on
hard compressed flac files .

Do you already have such files ? Easy to fix flac them again with a
lower setting from the files you have . That's the Beaty of lossless .

On server decoding helps with some rare MP3 ( well documented ) . Aiff
possibly needed for higher rates it is soo on Touch it does not play
24/96 aiff . Alac TP does not play it Touch does but not hirez so server
transcoding needed .

Flac and WAV works all the way to 24/96 unproblematic to use . However
the default setting in LMS is to server transcode wav to flac the
purpose is to save wifi bandwith it is a really good idea to keep it
that way .

Flac files have much better tag support so there it is again .

There simply is no need to transcode flac to pcm on the server .

The file types setting are not really  quality settings  they are
there to handle odd cases where the default rules don't work such as NAS
boxes and software players or very odd radio channels . With a normal
server and a Transporter you can just leave them at the factory settings
, you can often create you own problems by changing them to much.

I know that there is a shool of thought that server transcoding sounds
better but in fact the squeezeboxes outputs the exact same thing
electrically with every lossles format so whats on the outputs does not
change . if you  hear a difference  anyway when there is none.
I may suggest a properly conducted ABX test that should settle that and
make life and fiddling with LMS easier :)
And delete all reaplay gain tags in the flac files when doing ABX .

I think a large amount of FUD around FLAC vs WAV comes from the fact
that FLAC can use replay gain tags ,these tells the player hardware to
play the files with a differen and in 99% of the case lower volume !
that sound really different !

All gain functions can be turned off in the player settings , there are
many formats that use volume normalisation I prefer not to .
Also to guarantee bit perfect output to the DAC gain settings should be
off its not enough to have the volume at 100%

Another venue for experimentation is to actually not use 100% volume
with the external ( or internal ) DAC on some recordings . Not all DAC's
handle intersample peaks well , this can be an issue with modern over
compressed loudness war recordings .
Intersample peak,or intersample,over ismthe term to Google .




Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD  SqueezePad
(spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Now where's that checkbook..

[Mnyb]

where is the high end switch to accompany this ?  with a discrete
balanced power supply per ethernet conector , with aircraft aluminium
front panel...

Do wee need cable lifters (risers ) to enjoy the full pf.. :D

how can they even begin to argument for silver wires in an Ethernet
cable !? this is alchemy , hopefully they are forced by shaolin monks
under a full moon .




Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD  SqueezePad
(spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] CD's vs. vinyl

[Mnyb]

Julf wrote: 
 'iZotope vinyl'
 (https://www.izotope.com/en/products/effects-instruments/vinyl/)

Does it simulate the other things like frequency dependent channel
separation ,phase variations and a slight acoustic feedback :)

The background noise has an interesting feature it has something akin to
dimensionality . Vinyl never gets as dry as a more perfect system it
never simulates a point IME .
I mean it's somewhat simulates 3D on its own even with bone dry source
material can be some very low level post echo from the acoustic feedback
that always exists .
Resonances from the platter etc .

I also experimented with removing the box around the sub chassi of one
of my players and also removed the bottom plate on one player . All this
significantly change their sound .
Wonder what mechanics are involved when the chassi or plint have a sound
?

I have Systemdeck with bruer tone arm and XYZ and ortofon pickups
somewhere , but as i've sold all my vinyl it's rarely used .
I was young when CD took over in so I opted out at 300-400 vinyls and
sold them and gone digital since ..

For a while i even rresisted CD and was hooked on vinyl .

I also recall some of the older cheaper CD players not sounding
particularly good . One Yamaha a friend had even had audible high
frequency swirling noises like aliasing artefacts !? on some material .

I very cheap soundcard from a decade ago can exhibit the same thing my
old PC had that tones from 19-22 kHZ produced artefacts .

Test this if you have a really crummy soundcard , or by all means try
these tones on your hifi especially if your DAC is of some kind of
unorthodox design :D ( meaning voodoo crap )
http://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_aliasing.php




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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] CD's vs. vinyl

[Mnyb]

Mike Sargent wrote: 
 I think there is serious money to be made by someone who builds a device
 that sits between a CD player and an amp that introduces all of the
 distortions, frequency limitations, wow  flutter, etc. that vinyl has,
 and then periodically adds a click or snap to the audio and maybe even
 once a day skips forward or backward on a particularly loud passage to
 simulate a tone arm skip. An extra cost option would allow the user to
 control just how badly the mismatch is between the RIAA equalization
 curve applied during recording and playback. It could include a
 magnifying glass so CD artwork appears as big as an album cover.
 
 I think I'm off to the patent office.
 
 Mike

we where halfway there in the early 90's there was an actual device that
downtransformed and anti-riaa filtered the output of CD player to
something you could put into your phono input on your beloved high end
rig .
I'm surprised that it did not caugth on  ? it's cargo cult enough to be
an instant hit ?

I'm also miffed by how some audio writers that claims to know stuff
misunderstand the implications of correctly used dither noise in digital
audio. Claiming nonsense like at minus such and such dB the music is
only presented at 5 bits that’s not how things work .
The noise in a dithered digital chain becomes random and uncorrelated to
the sampling  it's mathematically equal to random analog noise such as
tape noise , the dithered digital system then behaves like the perfect
analog system that never was a signal and a noise floor .

See Monthys videos about digital audio at xiph org where he presents a
signal presented by 1/4 bit clearly visible in the noise if you don’t
believe me :) and also debunks the myth that a digital system does not
get it's timing better than the sample rate .

Our reconstruction filters in our digital systems may not be perfect but
that’s really a red herring these errors are magnitudes below what vinyl
or tape does to the signal .

So using 11-13 bits it's no problem when doing a vinyl rip so 16bits is
just fine . However in the procedure I would use 24/96 ADC and then run
some minor adjustments and anti click if necessary , but then
downconverting to 16/48 would not do any harm .
Actually capturing 20kHz from a vinyl in practice the very best pickups
in the very best turntable and arm and a vinyl in mint condition might
do it .




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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] CD's vs. vinyl

[Mnyb]

Archimago wrote: 
 Yeah. That's a tragedy IMO! As much as I can enjoy needle drops, they're
 still obviously not as good as the original direct-to-digital.
 
 Please indulge me for a second...
 
 /rant on!/
 
 It's really quite sad that on the one hand we have folks like Neil Young
 pushing digital but seemingly -moronic- in relying on big numbers to
 impress the populace who I think have essentially had enough. Who knows
 if this can be turned around, but I honestly hope Neil can start
 speaking sense.
 
 On the other hand we have vinyl pushers like Mike Fremer promoting a
 technologically obsolete format which has ZERO chance of going
 mainstream again no matter how much of a revival it might enjoy at this
 time. I wish I could enjoy his comedy shtick promoting vinyl like this
 if only I weren't so disgusted. Tonight I see he has a review of the new
 Dylan album. Good review and I might pick up the album... However, he
 insists the CD sounds bad and even considered if the better sounding
 vinyl was because it originated from the 24-bit master. Yeah, right...
 Unless they're different masterings, the idea of hearing the
 improvement 24-bit makes after going through the vinyl LP process is
 beyond ridiculous. There are other possibilities, but -how can anyone in
 their right mind even declare this kind of hypothesis with a straight
 face and consider himself educated as an audio reviewer!?-
 
 Looking around the Net we find...
 
 Mike Lavorgna on AudioStream. I think he's a nice enough guy but in the
 business of advertisement. But there's all the crazy tweaks and
 Synergistic wares peddled by that Steve Plaskin guy. Horrifying.
 
 I don't know what to think of the Computer Audiophile any more. Looks
 like he's happy to take a sponsorship to visit a factory and basically
 regurgitates ad copy in those reviews. Lately posting up
 audiophile-approved pretentious designs of computers that bear
 unpronounceable names with claims of audible superiority. Jeez... If one
 is going to talk about improved jitter, lower noise (like with filtered
 clean USB ports), please, at least demonstrate *something* to show the
 components made a difference as claimed. These things are measurable,
 right!?
 
 Stereophile, TAS, Hi-Fi+, UHF Magazine here in N. America... What's
 there to say?
 
 Sadly, these are the mouthpieces of audiophilia.
 
 I have a feeling that the MQA rhetoric is going to get good in the
 months ahead. Prepare for Bob Stuart the salesman taking over from Neil
 Young.
 
 /rant off!/
 
 Despite my general pessimism, I actually have a contrarian streak which
 is telling me -maybe it really is darkest before the dawn-...

The ligth in the tunnel... it's the train :P




Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] CD's vs. vinyl

[Mnyb]

Julf wrote: 
 Indeed. No need to try to rationalize it with pseudoscience, voodoo and
 mumbo-jumbo.




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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] CD's vs. vinyl

[Mnyb]

philippe_44 wrote: 
 Unfortunately much more than they do really know, I agree :) ... and
 this is what enjoyment should never be: rationalized. Try, experience
 and the 'good' thing is what you like, at the end

Yes ofcourse ,but it helps to realize that a CD as container is a good
enough fit for most recordings ever done and a good enogh fit for our
hearing ablities . Then you don't have to fuzz about that and start
finding good performances to enjoy .

I totally get vinyl as hobby :) there is a lot of things youll never see
in any digital format and it's fun . Dont get it confused with good
sound reproduction in general , but do get yourself a decent vinyl rig
if that what you want to get the best from those records .




Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
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sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD  SqueezePad
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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Last words on PONO...

[Mnyb]

paulster wrote: 
 I'd be interested to see measurements.  I've had two of them, one that
 sounded noticeably different to the other (which is a QC worry), but
 neither of them could hold a candle to the other couple of 9018-based
 DACs I have in my systems.  The owner of one of them came over all
 excited to see how good it would sound in my hifi, with balanced cables
 and everything at the ready.  It only took a few notes before he uttered
 a very deflated, Oh.
 
 The perception is the bass seems to be muddy, and it feels like it has a
 rising frequency response, making it comparatively shrill and
 fatiguing.
 
 I've listened to them on Sennheiser HD-600s (single-ended and balanced
 outputs), Ultimate Ears UE10pros (single-ended outputs), and via the
 single-ended and balanced line outs, all of which exhibited the same
 traits.

If it has a frequency response problem and muddy bass when driving
headphones that makes me want to see the measurements even more , looks
like a classic impedance mismatch problem




Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Digital Active Speakers

[Mnyb]

Gandhi wrote: 
 I noticed that Event actually shows distortion figures in percent for
 the whole speaker system and not just the amplifier. Also, the figures
 are better than I'd have expected. But why the 3rd harmonic?
 
 OPAL 2-way 750-watt Active Monitor: 3rd Harmonic Distortion @ 90dB SPL,
 1m: 500 - 7kHz - 0.08% 200 - 20kHz - 0.2% 200Hz - 1.5%
 http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/event-opal-2-way-750-watt-active-monitor
 
 This is a first for me. It should be mandatory. Does someone know of
 another speaker manufacturer who does this?

No a very good idea.

Btw we are lucky that our hearing in the bass is so very bad we can
easily tolerate 1% of distortion there . very cool that the midrange
has very good measurements :) that’s most important .
Caveat it's not measured at very high SPL .

But such a 2-way system can be improved with a subwoofer ! then the load
in the bass would be lessened and you can go louder with less distorsion
.




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Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Last words on PONO...

[Mnyb]

Archimago wrote: 
 Hmmm. Still no measurements yet!

Yes no measurement ? But it's seems nice enough portable player with
good headphone drive capability actually quite ok.
But as stated that would not sell , let's get on the HRA hype bandwagon
:D

Considering that many headfi  guys lug around multiple box rigs in thier
backpacks when travelling . This could be an option . But some actual
measurement on the output impedance is critical to asses that . Meaning
if the impedance is to high your better of with a good old Sansa clip
and save the money .




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sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD  SqueezePad
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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MUSINGS: What Is The Value of High Resolution Audio?

[Mnyb]

Archimago wrote: 
 Yeah. That's a good one! Will be very interesting to see what happens to
 Pono now in the public eye. No surprise for folks who've tried tests
 with hi-res audio. As suspected, very possible to see a public backlash
 for the unrealistic silly hype. I still just hope the importance of
 mastering gets *strongly* discussed so there is at least an opportunity
 to change sound quality for the good.
 
 As for the Jazz In The Pawnshop, does anyone know where the history of
 this one began in terms of the audiophile psyche? Something about it
 being featured in some Hong Kong audiophile magazine or something like
 that?
 
 I agree - it sucks. But I do have it around for the visiting audiophiles
 who love the jazz-club ambience :-).

I have no idea , but I think it's a bit out of context anyway . You must
probably be from Sweden ( like me ) and possibly also been to the
pawnshop jazz club ( check ) also be a bit older than me and have some
nostalgia for that part of Swedish jazz history and these performers .

Why it's been lifted out off its cultural context over space and time
and are revered by Japanese high end aficionados ? Some things are true
mysteries .

However the record company proprius have made many excellent classical
and choral recordings over the years and some other stuff too .

I think it's ok and it actually does sound exactly like that jazz club .
But it is of no significance in the greater scheme of things .




Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
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Bedroom/Office: Boom
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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MUSINGS: What Is The Value of High Resolution Audio?

[Mnyb]

I think my audiophile card got revoked when I put my high end cable
collection in the recycling dumpster including a set of audio quest
caldera speaker wires

Anyhow I do sometimes buy the HiRez version of something if it's aviable
, but I rarely go above 24/96 that's good enough .




Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
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Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MUSINGS: What Is The Value of High Resolution Audio?

[Mnyb]

Archimago wrote: 
 Ouch. Couldn't you resell some of that stuff and get a few bucks back?
 That's what a friend did... Got rid of all his expensive wires, stayed
 with some Mogami's. Tells me he has been happy to be free of the cable
 obsession since.

No I thought it immoral to do soo I did not want peddle snake oil myself
, this stuff actually sits very well in the dumpster :D




Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
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iPad1 with iPengHD  SqueezePad
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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MUSINGS: What Is The Value of High Resolution Audio?

[Mnyb]

ralphpnj wrote: 
 I believe that every member of the US Congress and Senate is a charter
 member of the science is only good when it supports our views club.

That's a thing about science the results are true even if you don’t like
them or believe in them .

extremely annoying when your job is to push/peddle opinions or if your
are elected just because your disconect with reality suits a large
voting population  ?




Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MUSINGS: What Is The Value of High Resolution Audio?

[Mnyb]

There is also a factor with badly desiged equipment, a DAC or AV amp
could actually sound different with diffrent source formats , how is it
with DSD for example .

High end or not , bad design can pop up anywhere . But high end is
actually a more likely place more cultish design done by ear instead of
measurements .

That's why blogs as arhimogos or NwAudioGuy (or whats he's moniker ) are
important , the magazines should call out bad design more often .




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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MUSINGS: What Is The Value of High Resolution Audio?

[Mnyb]

darrenyeats wrote: 
 These internet arguments are tiring. I just take a personal approach. So
 far I've decided through my own listening (some sighted some blind) that
 lossless 16/44 is better than Spotify (albeit slightly) but I've not
 heard any convincing demonstration of an audible difference between
 16/44 versus hi-res despite trying.
 
 If I were at some point to hear a convincing demonstration (probably
 also involving sighted and blind) of an audible difference between 16/44
 versus hi-res, then I'd change my position. Simples.

+1

we may need a drake equation for the probability of finding a worthwhile
hirez release :)




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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] KEF X300A's and the Squeezebox Radio's output - A good fit?

[Mnyb]

You may treat yourself to a used squeezebox Touch or some of the DIY
players later on if want a digital out .

More on actives , I use a pair of Adam a3x for my computer that's also a
good speaker .




Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] KEF X300A's and the Squeezebox Radio's output - A good fit?

[Mnyb]

You dont have to limit yourself to actives with 3,5mm sockets , there
are cables with 3,5 mm to RCA .

It works both ways if you have speakers with 3,5mm sockets a player wth
rca out can be used with such a cable




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Bedroom/Office: Boom
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Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD  SqueezePad
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server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Multichannel Playback - ideas and music?

[Mnyb]

Imo even ambiance helps if done rigth with 5 speaker the stereo image
can get wider deeper and higher than with 2 speakers .

And in my case the midrange gets much better for song due the favorable
position ( acoustic you know ) of my center speaker .
Another interesting factor that also can be a factor for me is the comb
filter effect interference effect you get with multiple sources. 2
sources is possibly one of the worst cases 1 speaker or many speakers
have less of this effect .
So the response can be much smoother with 3 front speakers in the room .




Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD  SqueezePad
(spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Multichannel Playback - ideas and music?

[Mnyb]

Archimago wrote: 
 True, speaker position is an issue... However, I wonder if in the
 multichannel world, there might actually be a little more
 standardization. For example the 'ITU-R BS.775-3'
 (http://www.itu.int/dms_pubrec/itu-r/rec/bs/R-REC-BS.775-3-201208-I!!PDF-E.pdf)
 specifies recommended angles for both movies and music which I've tried
 to emulate in my sound system (the 5.1 configuration is of course in
 line with THX and Dolby recommendations). Also, modern decent receivers
 almost universally incorporate room-EQ correction easily activated to
 compensate for loudness and distance differences... Better to have a
 proper room configuration of course but this will certainly help.
 
 Nothing's perfect but I must admit I'm enjoying Bryan Adams -Reckless
 -5.1 30th Anniversary Blu-Ray audio right now... Good memories of high
 school, now in a surround high-res mix! (Better BTW that the nasty
 compressed sounding stereo remaster on the same disk - yuck!)

yes there are standards for multichannel audio regarding both speaker
positioning and drummroll *levels !* So for movies or possibly other
multich materials there is an actuall small change that you happen to
recreate the mix as the producers intended .
That would never happen with typical stereo mixes (for example you dont
know if the mix engineer listened 75dB or 130dB when mixing ;) )




Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD  SqueezePad
(spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] KEF X300A's and the Squeezebox Radio's output - A good fit?

[Mnyb]

Even if Radio is not as good source component as the Touch .
The biggest difference will still be the speakers . If you can hear the
difference between the speakers , you can hear it with a Radio too . In
general the difference between speakers are much bigger than between
digital players .

Touch migth be a real improvement its a very decent source component , I
never used the Radio as a source for line level so I would not know how
much better Touch is and if it's posible to hear. But given that Touch
is made for line level use and Radio has it as an extra function . My
bet is on the Touch as a line level component .

Btw I use 2 Touch and a Boom and a Radio for my small home .




Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD  SqueezePad
(spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Multichannel Playback - ideas and music?

[Mnyb]

I do have a lot of DVDA in 5.1 it does really sound good , some mixes
are gimicky but there are good ones like the discs AIX put out a decade
ago .

As i have a Meridian system i have well functioning surround modes even
for 2ch music I often use these they enhance the experience in some
situations .

I think even paul klispsh was onto it in the 50's or something with an
idea of a center fill channel for stereo .

Even if things are recorded with 2 ch does not necesarily mean that you
must play them back with 2 ch .
I dont think these things are mutually exlusive , for example combining
home theater and hifi .

And I only did 2ch rips of my DVDA discs , I have no way of playing back
discrete 6 ch files . I guess i'm open to suggestions on what to use for
that , do you guys use a htpc or something and what software ?

My experience is that video and music demands completely different
strategies and tagging and also browsing software . Whats good for films
and tv series might not be ideal for music .
Would be nice if multichannel where supported by LMS and if the software
players supported it ,it could be used with a wandboard or similar .
But I realise that downloads in 6ch and hirez is an even rarer thing
than real music in DSD , so maybe it's not worth anyone#8217;s time
unless for the fun of it .

I think my old pile 100 DVDA is what could have been and history , but
music bluerays is a thing , but they often come with video too ?




Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD  SqueezePad
(in storage SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Last words on PONO...

[Mnyb]

I think wombat is joking :) .

The general pointlessness of DSD ( as a consumer playback system ) is
another topic




Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD  SqueezePad
(in storage SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Multichannel Playback - ideas and music?

[Mnyb]

ralphy wrote: 
 I use linux and the process described on the 'wiki'
 (http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/Play_DVD_Tracks) which uses
 spdifconvert.py to encapsulate ac3 or dts into flac.  There's a link to
 download the script on the wiki.
 
 To avoid a blast of static on a stereo only setup, make sure you tag
 those flac files as multichannel, I use GENRE=multichannel, and exclude
 that genre from automatic mixes, in my case SmartMix, for players that
 aren't connected to an amp that supports AC3/DTS decoding.

Yes that's a good idea to keep them out of the mix, I also have some ac3
files and know the static blast .
Also keep volume at 100% for this to work and be carefull when syncing ,
another opurtunity for static :)




Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD  SqueezePad
(spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Multichannel Playback - ideas and music?

[Mnyb]

The only way to get multichannel is ac3 or dts files compressed as flac
or wav .
Thats what toslink or spdiff supports

But with so many third party players aviable with hdmi capable hardware
,
Maybe its time to support 5.1 flac files ?




Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD  SqueezePad
(in storage SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Last words on PONO...

[Mnyb]

Mr young cant work magic either ,apparently ?

The elephant in the room is that as a reseller you just dont have
creative control over what masters you get ! the record company’s sends
what they see fit .
Mr Young has control over his own stuff and also apparently used the
best ones he had ,even if they where the same as a decade ago not
everyone has a DVDA player* so it's possible to sell .


)*which reminds me  I must repair my DVDA player the powersupply is
broken ,been I while since I heard DVDA discs :) I really loved the
underestimated feature of discrete 6ch uncompressed music . That was the
real deal with SACD or DVDA 2ch of the same master would sound exactly
the same as 16/44.1 or 24/192 but the multichannel was something else .

Can someone really realise the idea about getting the best sounding
masters and then sell them in a download format . historically there was
mobile fidelity and some others for CD's , but they cover such a tiny
part of the music world ?
What about any new music ? yet another version of DSTM would not suffice
.




Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD  SqueezePad
(in storage SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Inches to DB???

[Mnyb]

rgro wrote: 
 Much appreciated, Michael.  The Revels actually sound terrific in the
 configuration I have them where they are equidistantjust the usual
 nervosa that maybe that extra 2 db to balance the right speaker would
 make things sound even better!  I think the room compensation hardware
 is, indeed, probably the ultimate answer, but I'm not quite ready to
 take that leap in terms of complexity and expense.

There is a way to manipulate a Touch to do this I answered you in the
squeezelite tread about it ..

But as Julf said you fixing the symptoms not the problem ..




Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD  SqueezePad
(in storage SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Inches to DB???

[Mnyb]

Yes is esential to keep the speaker distance to listening position the
same for stereo .

A speaker arrangement with such a big flaw is not really usable ?
Headphones is an idea .

Or can the room be rearranged ? Use another wall for the hifi .

Use a home theater reciever or processor , they can often set speaker
levels separately .

But speakers are not linear ,they would sound different anyway by
loading one harder , but maybe that's peanuts compared to the very
different acoustics for Left vs rigth speaker .

Maybe some hardware with built in digital room compensation would be a
possible solution ?

Just tossing some ideas your direction 




Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD  SqueezePad
(in storage SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Meridian's MQA - a few thoughts, possible concerns...

[Mnyb]

pablolie wrote: 
 we talk about money, and yet how successfully are encoding algorithms
 when it comes to monetization? even the MP3 inventors gave up on it. 
 
 i would get the software business motivation, hey, audiophile software,
 subscription fees... sure. my posts in these very forums are still out
 there when i said that Slimdevices or Logitech ought to have charged for
 an LMS subscription license, the value was always more in the server
 even though the streaming boxes were always great. but how Meridian
 hopes to establish such a model with MQA is beyond me. no self
 respecting competitor is going to adopt their stuff for obvious reasons.
 unless they use it as a nice (yet meaningless) wrapper for products that
 look and are priced a lot like Squeezeboxes, and the server streams in
 MQA to the boxes, oh great, and the server software is sold as it should
 - pay for updates.
 
 but with MQA i don't see the mega business opportunity out there. the
 differentiation is questionable. the partner landscape limited. and
 audiophiles don't care of it's MQA or DSD or two squirrels doing it in a
 box as long as it sounds great and looks premium.

It's hard but possible Dolby and DTS manage to do it . I think the key
is hardware devices you get a logo on the machine somewhere , not that I
think the mfg behind a Chinese 50$ DVD player actually paid royalty for
their Dalby logo :) but it usually works .
Meridian had some sucess with MLP , and the rebranded improved variant
do sell on blueray discs .
But this is streaming so I share your concerns .
But I do think the intent is again to sell chip or licenses for hardware
devices .




Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD  SqueezePad
(in storage SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Volume issues with new Transporter (quiet or distorted - pick one!)

[Mnyb]

Did you test the same input , not only the same cable ? For example
don't use the phono input it only works for pickups not line level
sources .




Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD  SqueezePad
(in storage SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Meridian's MQA - a few thoughts, possible concerns...

[Mnyb]

Wombat wrote: 
 Don't worry to much about this paper. They proved that by 56% (slightly
 better as flipping a coin) on 45.000$ speakers with special treated
 silent room using SUB-standard filtering that lowpassed music can be
 discerned.
 The exact filters used with MatLab were not offered, leave alone the
 real music samples. It is known the filters are very steep and they used
 a rectangular dither method even the paper writers (Meridian) don't see
 as sufficient but use it for the test.
 Also i saw no clear description if the difference was found as really
 better sounding in any concrete way, only a difference.
 They used an ultra hard metal tweeter with their speakers that itself
 may cause IM in a way that may sound different lowpassed. No attempt was
 made to exclufde that.
 So it may just be the Most comprehensive paper ever published about
 metal tweeter IM
 It becomes even more funny when following their conclusion that it must
 be the way of the filter acting while they did not try anything to prove
 different filters sounding different. They more or less copied their
 Meridian marketing speech into the AES paper.
 A clever BUY-IN!
 Thats how i understand it after reading some discussions and snippets of
 the original paper i found online.
 
 I don't know anything about the signals they talk about.
 
 There is also a long thread at Hydrogen with lots of info.

Yes research are not incorruptible , that's what peer review are for .
Seems like Meridian get tangled in some bias in thier research , the
results seems weak ,but they want to believe in it . Especially when
there is a bussiness opurtunity at stake .




Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD  SqueezePad
(in storage SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] For Sale: Transporter with NAV Wheel

[Mnyb]

The SE was made from leftover parts and spares , but they where out of
nav wheels .
So it's the same player .

Yes I also keep spare parts :) got one unused Touch my old SB3 and my
old duet boxed up




Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD  SqueezePad
(in storage SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Digital Active Speakers

[Mnyb]

I'm very tempted to upgrade my kitchen setup , it does not get as much
use as it should.




Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD  SqueezePad
(in storage SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Meridian's MQA - a few thoughts, possible concerns...

[Mnyb]

A solution in search for a problem ?

What I think the world does not need yet another proprietary licensed
format or any new music format , music files and steaming are already to
confusing for the avarage joe . I would rather like to reduce the format
count .

Mores law will fix any data rate problem pretty soon , maybe not for
mobile phones and cars , but there there is simply no need for ultra
high quality . So even if successful MQA will be obsolete in a couple of
years anyway .

What they really want . Meridian has some sucess with MLP for DVDA it's
now rebranded as Dolby true HD with some upgrades for the blueray
carrier .

So preevious moderate bussiness sucess with developing licensed formats
, have made them take another stab at it now for the streaming market .
This decoding tech would reside in DAC's HT recievers phones and all .

Ok can you sell it , the deciding factor would be content as usual is
there anything to listen to in this newfangled format or not .




Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD  SqueezePad
(in storage SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] From the You can't make this stuff up files

[Mnyb]

I'll go for EZ-drive over SCSI :) probably like one cartridge per track
 It's awkward  old fashioned and obsoleta tech so it must be
audiophile rigth ? There aren HP DDC tape drives at work used in some of
our obsolete tech  Hmmm




Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD  SqueezePad
(in storage SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] From the You can't make this stuff up files

[Mnyb]

cliveb wrote: 
 Excellent point.
 And I see a gap in the audiophool marketplace: belt-drive hard disks!

was it not some crackpot company that sold a belt drive CD player :)




Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] From the You can't make this stuff up files

[Mnyb]

Apesbrain wrote: 
 Still around:
 http://www.cec-web.co.jp/products/cdplayer/tl0x/tl0x_e.html

Oh they upgraded it , retail is only 20 - 25k$ for a transport :) this
is so silly considering ripping with the help of accurate rip is better
than any cd drive can possible bee and the design is totally cargo cult
to begin with




Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
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Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
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iPad1 with iPengHD  SqueezePad
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server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] From the You can't make this stuff up files

[Mnyb]

philippe_44 wrote: 
 This is so ridiculous when you have a small idea (even a very small
 idea) of what error correction code is ... having said that, the object
 looks nice and they could perfectly sell it for design purpose ... but
 all that technical BS covering is almost an insult to intelligence

That and buffers :) afaik the bit streams is interleaved L/R and coded
with some way so that the error correction code can work . Was year
since I've read about the Solomon reed coding .

But the player decodes and buffer and then it's clock decides at what
precision the data leave the player .

If you ever want to overkill this , you can do like meridian on some of
their disc spinners use DVD rom drives and read the disc at greater than
playback speed use a larger buffer and then you have time to revisit and
re-read problem spots .

This is ofcourse also made obsolete by simply ripping the disc ...




Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD  SqueezePad
(in storage SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Oh-oh, the ethernet/USB cable dispute all over again ...

[Mnyb]

Another sad fact can be that audiophile equipment can be badly designed
so that factors that should not matter actually do  ? :)

Power amps that's gets unstable without special speaker cables etc .

Or circuit design with very bad or none power supply rejection ratio
,which demands uber designed power supplies to perform decently at all .

To high output impedance so that speaker impedance influence frequency
response and impulse response of the total ssystem...
( just fill in more of these ) .

I have no plethora of examples of junk design in digital interfaces ,
but did not some garage company actually designed a tube driven digital
output and as per the usual MO claiming that it's sounds better due to
the tubes but without any proper explanation or testing ;)

Btw the to much gain thing can happen to good brands to , it's not
unusual that brand x pre and power put together has to much gain , this
limits performance .

Btw I don't think you have to pay even 20$ for a proper USB 2 certified
cable in a computer store , I'll also bet that the freebie cable you got
10 years ago also works properly for such an undemanding task as audio .
But you migth find the fringe case with the very cable hence unlikely .

I do like the unlikely term better as there could be many factors at
work . But keep track of what's probable .
If you actually by measurement or well conducted ABX test do find
differences in USB cables , do not jump up and down in joy off finding
the perfect USB a cable ,rather worry about what's wrong with your
system . Or what went wrong in the test .




Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x
MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3
sub.
Bedroom/Office: Boom
Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4
Misc use: Radio (with battery)
iPad1 with iPengHD  SqueezePad
(in storage SB3, reciever ,controller )
server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

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