Re: Lance!
From: Kevin Tarr [EMAIL PROTECTED] There didn't seem to be much interest here, I thought. I watched the penultimate stage live, postponing a bike ride of my own until I saw the result. Then I recorded the same stage while I was work, just to see if I missed anything. I treid to record the final day, but messed something up. I didn't get to watch any if it, live or otherwise, so I had to content myself with following via web coverage, because my wife's tolerance for sports on TV is measured in nanoseconds. :-) I am glad he won the way he did. He said the same thing, but five straight of anything is great. So many bad things happened, the wrecks, his cold. But he survived. The closeness certainly kept the race more interesting than his past few. I'm hoping he can return to his old form and win his sixth by a large margin. Can anyone believe the sportsmanship shown when he wrecked the second time? I have not heard anyone say that Lance didn't show the same sportsmanship when Beloki crashed, but it was near the end going downhill. If Beloki was okay, he'd have only lost a minute at the most, if that. But I'm sure Lance knew, from his team radio, the he was seriously hurt. Apparently, Lance similarly held up for Ullrich in a previous TdF: Jan is a good guy, he's an honorable guy, Armstrong said. He probably didn't forget that when he crashed in 2001, in what appeared to be a serious crash, I told everyone: 'We can't race until he gets back up.' As we say in English: 'What goes around comes around,' and so I appreciate him doing that. _ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies
Jan Coffey wrote: And before anyone misunderstands me, -NO- I don't want the poor Indean national to have to work 80 hours a week for 1/4 the pay eaither. And -YES- I would like him to be as gainfully employed as me. Indean? Ritu ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies
--- Ritu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jan Coffey wrote: And before anyone misunderstands me, -NO- I don't want the poor Indean national to have to work 80 hours a week for 1/4 the pay eaither. And -YES- I would like him to be as gainfully employed as me. Indean? You know, Ritu, if you are trying to get under my skin, you are doing a damb good job of it. Should we start discussing your own personal flaws? Do you really want to make it persoanl? becouse we can do that. Go ahead and try me. = _ Jan William Coffey _ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
US Goes to UNSC
UN Security Council's significance at risk if NKorea not taken up: US BEIJING (AFP) Jul 28, 2003 US official John Bolton warned Monday the significance of the United Nations Security Council would be undermined if its members refused to take up the North Korean nuclear issue. There's no doubt we have been flexible in looking for alternatives, Bolton told reporters after meeting Chinese vice foreign ministers to discuss North Korea's standoff with Washington over Pyongyang's nuclear ambitions. http://www.spacewar.com/2003/030728130244.mppj6xat.html ___ John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED] The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, it is God's gift to humanity. - George W. Bush 1/29/03 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Lance!
Bryon Daly wrote: From: Kevin Tarr [EMAIL PROTECTED] There didn't seem to be much interest here, I thought. I watched the penultimate stage live, postponing a bike ride of my own until I saw the result. Then I recorded the same stage while I was work, just to see if I missed anything. I treid to record the final day, but messed something up. I didn't get to watch any if it, live or otherwise, so I had to content myself with following via web coverage, because my wife's tolerance for sports on TV is measured in nanoseconds. :-) Hm. Anything you can do about that? (Or do you want to, even?) Dan's mother wasn't interested in football when she married Dan's father. Dan's father enjoyed watching football games on TV, and asked her to join him, and explained what was going on, first in simple terms, and when she got those, went into more of the nuances. When I married Dan, I wasn't really interested in football on TV. I mean, I'd watched the Texas vs. Texas AM matches on Thanksgivings when we were celebrating the holiday with his relatives (some of his cousins were *really* into it), but I was clueless a lot of the time. So one season, Dan asked me to watch one football game a week with him, and he explained what was going on. (It didn't hurt that his team was having a winning season.) By the end of the season, I had a much better grasp of the game -- and a lot more interest. Both Dan's mother and I are now more into football than our husbands. :) I don't pay much attention to basketball until the playoffs. I have an ambivalent attitude about baseball. Trying not to get sucked into the whole Who's ahead -- the Red Sox or the Yankees? thing that I tormented myself with in college, and if I start paying too much attention to baseball, that's going to happen. I'll watch hockey, but I'm never glued to it for 3 whole periods. (I was watching it a lot more when Sammy was under a year old and still being breastfed a fair bit -- nothing like a sporting event when you're sitting there with a baby attached to your nipple.) I didn't really watch the Tour de France much until this year, but I'm supposed to be somewhat horizontal a number of hours each day, and I could time it so that I got a 2-hour block of coverage on OLN at the same time I was lying down. I really enjoyed that. I got a lot more into it than I'll probably be able to for the next few years. There were a few times I missed the afternoon coverage and wanted to watch it in the evening, and Dan would sit in the room and read and look at the TV occasionally. A few times he said he never thought that he could get as interested in a cycling race as he was. Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Windo$e
William T. Goodall wrote: The Linksys WET11 I use to connect the G3 server to the network never crashes - but it doesn't do anything very complicated so it doesn't have any excuses. Reggie Bautista wrote: I bought a Linksys 8-port router and switch about a year and a half ago and was never able to get it configured to talk to my ISP through the cable modem. I bought a cablemodem and a wireless NAT router both made by Linksys, and haven't had any problems with the equipment at all. Of course, the cable company had to run a new cable to my house in order to get a clean signal (after several increasingly frustrated calls), but the problem was never my networking equipment. -- Matt ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Harry Potter 5 (no spoilers)
Horn, John wrote: I do like how the books are becoming more mature and sophisticated as Rowling has gone on. I wonder how much of that is intentional or just a result of her maturing as a writer. That is intentional. IIRC, Rowling is writing the books to be age appropriate for the age-level that Harry is in the book. (i.e., the first book is supposed to be appropriate for 11-yr-olds, both in difficulty and subject matter). I have a feeling that each book will get increasingly ambiguous regarding good/evil as he gets older. Now that the kids are 16 or so, I've been wondering if there is some sort of anti-sex hex at Hogwarts! There must be! There was the scene when they tried to go into the girls dorm to fetch Hermione, which activated the staircase. Perhaps we'll see more of this if Harry gets a girlfriend. -- Matt ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Hello!
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello everyone, My name is Patrick Schlichtenmyer. Hello, and welcome back! I have recently got into the hobby of chainmailling. Not for any role-playing reason, but simply because (to my suprise) I enjoy doing it for its own sake. I have a nice patch of european 4in1 mail about 8 by 8 square inches that took me about 6 months to do(hey, I'm still learning! :)). I agree, it is fun. I started a project a while ago, but haven't been able to get back to it, what with the various other projects around the house which need to be finished by the time our 2nd child is born. -- Matt ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Lance!
Oh. When I saw the subject line, I thought the list was giving me advice on what I ought to do about this boil I have . . . At 09:41 PM 7/30/03 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Considering the level of interest shown in the Tour de France when it started, I'm surprised to see little or no mention of the fact, now that it's over, that Lance Armstrong won his fifth in a row. This one was more stirring than the previous 4, as his triumph was in doubt until the next-to-last day. He was used to blowing his competition away, and he just could not do so this year. I wouldn't be surprised if he savors this one the most, as it was his hardest-earned (except, perhaps, for his first, considering he was just coming off his miraculous recovery from cancer back then). Seriously . . . while I'm not a big sports fan in general, congratulations to him! --Ronn! :) I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Dr. Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Irregulars question: Milky Way
I've seen some maps of the Milky Way, and the mapmakers usually don't bother to orient it. When we see it from the Galactic North Pole, does it look like something that is rotating clockwise or counterclockwise? [I guess the spiral arms would rotate faster closer to the center] Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies
From: Jan Coffey [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 02:01:52 -0700 (PDT) --- Ritu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jan Coffey wrote: And before anyone misunderstands me, -NO- I don't want the poor Indean national to have to work 80 hours a week for 1/4 the pay eaither. And -YES- I would like him to be as gainfully employed as me. Indean? You know, Ritu, if you are trying to get under my skin, you are doing a damb good job of it. Should we start discussing your own personal flaws? Jan, I know that you've been hashing this out with Erik (unpleasantly), but please consider that it is perfectly possible that Ritu has not read that thread and isn't aware that you're dyslexic. Personally, I wouldn't assume someone was unless they told me. I regularly skip threads completely here I find it impossible to keep up. (I'm now 591 posts behind.) I'm sure that others do the same. If it were me, I'd give Ritu the benefit of the doubt. Jon Le Blog: http://zarq.livejournal.com _ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Lance!
From: Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Lance! Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 09:33:42 -0500 Bryon Daly wrote: From: Kevin Tarr [EMAIL PROTECTED] There didn't seem to be much interest here, I thought. I watched the penultimate stage live, postponing a bike ride of my own until I saw the result. Then I recorded the same stage while I was work, just to see if I missed anything. I treid to record the final day, but messed something up. I didn't get to watch any if it, live or otherwise, so I had to content myself with following via web coverage, because my wife's tolerance for sports on TV is measured in nanoseconds. :-) Hm. Anything you can do about that? (Or do you want to, even?) Dan's mother wasn't interested in football when she married Dan's father. A Texas immigrant, huh? *grin* Cowboys home game days are official Texan state holidays. Both Dan's mother and I are now more into football than our husbands. :) It's the food, the water and the air. They work on the body synergistically to form little football-enabler cells that make up the heart of every Texan. (Don't mind me... I'm working on very little sleep.) I have an ambivalent attitude about baseball. Trying not to get sucked into the whole Who's ahead -- the Red Sox or the Yankees? thing that I tormented myself with in college, and if I start paying too much attention to baseball, that's going to happen. *perk* Baseball? :-D Oh yeah, the Mets *still* suck. *sigh* Nevermind. Wake me when the Yankees win the 2003 Series. Jon Le Blog: http://zarq.livejournal.com _ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Lance!
Jon wrote: It's the food, the water and the air. They work on the body synergistically to form little football-enabler cells that make up the heart of every Texan. (Don't mind me... I'm working on very little sleep.) Thank all the Dark Gods I'm immune, then. Hate football, hate watching it. I'd rather get a boil lanced than watch football. My wife and kids are the same, and I'll do my best to keep them pure, thankyouverymuch. Adam C. Lipscomb 10 years in Texas, no football-oriented desires at all. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Read the blog. Love the blog. http://aclipscomb.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Lance!
I wrote: Hate football, hate watching it. I'd rather get a boil lanced than watch football. My wife and kids are the same, and I'll do my best to keep them pure, thankyouverymuch. Of course, it goes without saying that I'm not going to stop others from enjoying football. To each his own, eh? Adam C. Lipscomb [EMAIL PROTECTED] Read the blog. Love the blog. http://aclipscomb.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: When does it end? (RE: Seth Finkelstein on 16 words)
From: John D. Giorgis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: When does it end? (RE: Seth Finkelstein on 16 words) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 22:33:36 -0400 At 08:33 PM 7/29/2003 -0500 Horn, John wrote: I'm not sure what you are getting at here. Terrorism has existed for recorded history. Don't forget that when they win, terrorists are called freedom fighters or revolutionaries. I disagree with this. Suicide bombings, hijackings, Oklahoma City-style bombings, etc. all strike me as fairly modern inventions. No, hijackings and truck bombings are modern inventions technologically but the targeting of civilian populations to incite terror can be traced back 2500 years to the writings of Xenophon, the Greek historian. He lived around 4 or 500 BC, I think. Just off the top of my head, some other examples of terrorism throughout history: The Crusades The Spanish Inquisition Robespierre's Reign of Terror (late 1700's) Klu Klux Klan (late 1800's) The Argentine 'Vanished' The PLO (post WWII) The Irish Republican Army And the Basque ETA was started in the 1960's, I believe. Jon Le Blog: http://zarq.livejournal.com _ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Lance!
From: Adam C. Lipscomb [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Lance! Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 12:47:58 -0500 Jon wrote: It's the food, the water and the air. They work on the body synergistically to form little football-enabler cells that make up the heart of every Texan. (Don't mind me... I'm working on very little sleep.) Thank all the Dark Gods I'm immune, then. Hate football, hate watching it. I'd rather get a boil lanced than watch football. My wife and kids are the same, and I'll do my best to keep them pure, thankyouverymuch. Don't hold back! Tell us how you really feel! :) I really have no problem with it until funds that should be directed towards education in the school systems wind up funding high school teams. It's the Billy the Halfback can't add, but who cares? mentality that upsets me. Adam C. Lipscomb 10 years in Texas, no football-oriented desires at all. Yeah, Texas immigrants don't always contract the disease. :) Jon It's Not An Obsession But A Way Of Life Maru Le Blog: http://zarq.livejournal.com _ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
fight hte evil of price discrimination
http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/jul2003/tc20030731_6139_tc0 73.htm PRIVACY MATTERS By Jane Black Sharper Tools for Discriminatory Pricing Expert Andrew Odlyzko explains how tech advances are making it much easier to charge one price for you and another for your neighbor Why do corporations want your personal data? The simple answer, according to Andrew Odlyzko, the director of the University of Minnesota's Digital Technology Center, is that such information is the key to a holy grail of capitalism: discriminatory pricing. Economic theory posits that price discrimination -- where companies charge individuals based on their ability to pay and their value as a customer -- is desirable since it makes trade more efficient. Yet it rankles consumers, who perceive differential pricing as unfair. The fact that business travelers, whose corporations can arguably afford it, pay more for airline seats than a vacationer has made air travel more popular and routine. At the same time, the price discrimination that charges two people different prices for the same class of service infuriates those who pay more. In a paper to be presented at the Fifth Annual Conference on E-Commerce this fall, Odlyzko, a Bell Labs researcher for 26 years, doesn't argue for or against discriminatory pricing. He focuses on how technology can bring it to new levels of sophistication and prevalence. In 2000, Coca-Cola (COK ) tested a vending machine that would raise prices on a hot, humid day and lower them when temperatures fell. Today, Amazon.com (AMZ ) knows what, when, and how often customers buy and is experimenting with offering personalized bundles -- buy two books and get a discount, for example -- to induce people to buy more. Twenty years ago, neither experiment would have been possible. Managers who invest in privacy-eroding data-collection technology aren't always conscious that they're moving toward a world of widespread discriminatory pricing, Odlyzko says. Rather, they're trying out ways to use information to increase profits. But as corporations become more sophisticated in collecting and parsing consumers' personal information, success will lead them to more pervasive price discrimination. On July 28, I talked to Odlyzko about how data is being used to usher in a more efficient -- and privacy-invasive -- economy. Edited excerpts follow: Q: Your paper posits that private companies now have both greater incentive and ability to discriminate on pricing by collecting and analyzing customer data. How so? A: The greater incentive comes from the fact that in an information economy, an increasing fraction of the costs is fixed. It costs a large amount to create and market a movie, but very little to distribute it to a theater and on-demand to a customer at home. But different customers are willing to pay different amounts for the privilege of seeing a movie. In the last issue of BusinessWeek, there was a letter from a reader who advocated that Hollywood should start by charging $30 to see a new release at home, then reduce the price to $5 over time. He said he would happily pay $30 to see a new movie at home because it costs him $75 to see a movie in the cinema -- after he pays for the babysitter and popcorn and tickets. So here's one guy who says he's willing to pay $30 because that's much less than what he's currently paying to see a new release. On the other hand, you've got teenagers and adults who like the social atmosphere of a movie theater, the wide screen, etc. For them, you have to induce them to stay in and watch the movie, rather than going out, by offering them very low prices, maybe $3. If you can do both without getting them upset, then society wins. Q: So why does differential pricing upset customers? A: There's this central issue of fairness that comes up. People are very concerned that they'll pay more than someone else and be played for a fool. That's what we dislike about having to deal with the salesman in the car-buying process. That's why people got angry enough to file lawsuits when they observed that catalog companies had been offering different prices to different individuals. [The customers lost.] That's why people are sensitive to airline pricing -- and why they're concerned that it's spreading to other travel areas, such as hotels and rental cars. Q: Is there a correlation between more powerful technology and consumer backlash? A: Fear of discriminatory pricing isn't new: It was also a very big factor in the railroads at the end of the 19th century. Then, you had a huge industry -- even bigger than the information-technology industry today -- which was practicing price discrimination on a really gross scale. As with the Internet, railroads required huge investments up front, but the marginal costs were comparatively small. Nineteenth-century railroads didn't have the information technologies to allow for frequent-ride programs. Nor did they have the positive passenger
RE: When does it end? (RE: Seth Finkelstein on 16 words)
John D Giorgis wrote: I disagree with this. Suicide bombings, hijackings, Oklahoma City-style bombings, etc. all strike me as fairly modern inventions. At 14:08 2003-07-31 -0400, you wrote: No, hijackings and truck bombings are modern inventions technologically but the targeting of civilian populations to incite terror can be traced back 2500 years to the writings of Xenophon, the Greek historian. He lived around 4 or 500 BC, I think. Just off the top of my head, some other examples of terrorism throughout history: The Crusades The Spanish Inquisition Robespierre's Reign of Terror (late 1700's) Klu Klux Klan (late 1800's) The Argentine 'Vanished' The PLO (post WWII) The Irish Republican Army And the Basque ETA was started in the 1960's, I believe. Jon Don't forget the corsair pirates: state sponsored terrorism. If exploding trucks are a modern invention, it is only because trucks didn't exist before. There is an equivalent in what is called in French a brulôt. It's a burning ship or raft which may or may not be filled with gun powder, aimed at another ship or at a city's port. Jean-Louis ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Lance!
From: Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Bryon Daly wrote: I didn't get to watch any if it, live or otherwise, so I had to content myself with following via web coverage, because my wife's tolerance for sports on TV is measured in nanoseconds. :-) Hm. Anything you can do about that? (Or do you want to, even?) Maybe I could foster some sports interest in her, if I worked on it like Dan and his father did. The problem is most TV time we get these days is spent watching Bob the Builder and Bear in the Big Blue House, so adult tv-time is rather a precious commodity, and it's tough to ask her to use that time to watch stuff she's not interested in. I didn't really watch the Tour de France much until this year, but I'm supposed to be somewhat horizontal a number of hours each day, and I could time it so that I got a 2-hour block of coverage on OLN at the same time I was lying down. I really enjoyed that. I got a lot more into it than I'll probably be able to for the next few years. There The first time I really got into it was when LA was still a rising star, but hadn't had much success with the TdF yet. In a terrible accident on one stage, one of his (Motorola?) teammates (Fabio Castarelli) got killed in a crash on a high speed turn. The next day's stage, no one raced: they all rode together, and donated all the stage prize money to Castarelli's family. The next day, Lance was unstoppable and dedicated the stage win (only his career second stage win) to his fallen teammate. Very riveting, but fortunately, that kind of drama doesn't happen too often. _ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies
On Thursday, July 31, 2003, at 06:03 pm, Jon Gabriel wrote: I regularly skip threads completely here I find it impossible to keep up. (I'm now 591 posts behind.) I'm sure that others do the same. I'm 1115 behind :) I don't know whether to admit defeat or not... It's not as bad as another list where I am 41359 behind... -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ There's an old saying in Tennessee -- I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee -- that says, fool me once, shame on -- shame on you. Fool me -- you can't get fooled again. -George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Sept. 17, 2002 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
arch criminal poindexter to resign in 'terror market' fallout
http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNewsstoryID=3198102 Poindexter to Quit Pentagon Post Amid Controversy Thu July 31, 2003 01:59 PM ET WASHINGTON (Reuters) - John Poindexter, the retired Navy admiral who spearheaded two sharply criticized Pentagon projects, intends to resign from his Defense Department post within weeks, a senior U.S. defense official said on Thursday. It's my understanding that he ... expects to, within a few weeks, offer his resignation, the official, speaking on condition of anonymity, told reporters. Poindexter was involved with the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency's abandoned futures-trading market for predicting assassinations, terrorism and other events in the Middle East, and earlier with the so-called Total Information Awareness program that drew fire from civil rights groups. -- Just like what Nazi Germany did to the Jews, so liberal America is now doing to the evangelical Christians. It's no different. It is the same thing. It is happening all over again. It is the Democratic Congress, the liberal-based media and the homosexuals who want to destroy the Christians. Wholesale abuse and discrimination and the worst bigotry directed toward any group in America today. More terrible than anything suffered by any minority in history. -- Pat Robertson ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies
From: William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 19:31:30 +0100 On Thursday, July 31, 2003, at 06:03 pm, Jon Gabriel wrote: I regularly skip threads completely here I find it impossible to keep up. (I'm now 591 posts behind.) I'm sure that others do the same. I'm 1115 behind :) I don't know whether to admit defeat or not... Never give up! Never surrender! (Kudos if you can name the reference.) ;-) It's not as bad as another list where I am 41359 behind... Yeah, I gave up on one list when I hit 25K unread posts. Jon _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
on pryor nomination [L3]
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/B?r108:@FIELD(FLD003+s)[EMAIL PROTECTED](DDATE+2 0030730) The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senator from Illinois. Mr. DURBIN. Mr. President, to those of us who have been given this great honor to serve in the Senate, there is a moment when we are asked to take the oath of office. In taking that oath of office, we swear to uphold one document. That document, of course, is the Constitution of the United States of America. We are not asked our religion, nor our beliefs in our religion. We are only asked if we will take an oath to God that we will uphold this Constitution. All of us take it very seriously and all of us take the wording of this Constitution very seriously because within this small document are words that have endured for more than two centuries. There was wisdom in that Constitutional Convention which America has relied on ever since. Sometimes people say, times have changed. And we do amend the Constitution from time to time. By and large the principles that guided those men who wrote this Constitution have guided this Nation to greatness. I am honored to be a small part of this Nation's history and to serve in the Senate. I looked to this Constitution for guidance for this debate tonight, and I find that guidance in Article 6 of the Constitution. Let me read a few words from that book. . no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States. Most of the men who wrote this Constitution were religious people. They had seen the abuse of religion. They had seen leaders in other countries using religion for political purposes and against other people. They came to this land and said, it will be different in America. We are going to protect your right to believe. We are not going to establish a government church and we will say in our Constitution that no religious test will ever be required of a person seeking a nomination for public office in our land. Those are very absolute and clear words. I am a Catholic, born and raised. My mother and father were Catholics. My children have been raised in the Catholic faith. In my lifetime, I have seen some amazing things happen. In 1960, I was about 15 or 16 years old. There was a Presidential race with a candidate by the name of John Fitzgerald Kennedy of Massachusetts. That may be the first Presidential election I followed closely. I remember watching the Los Angeles convention on my black-and-white television at home in East St. Louis. I took a special interest because I had a stake. The John Fitzgerald Kennedy candidacy was the first opportunity since Alfred Smith for the election of a Catholic to be President of the United States. We do not think twice about that now, but in 1960 it was a big deal. And a big problem for John Kennedy. So much so that he feared he might lose the election over that issue. He did something that was historic and I guess unprecedented. He went to Texas and addressed a Baptist convention to explain his view of the relation of church and State because there were real concerns. Many people felt that those who were believers of the Catholic church were so connected and so committed to the teachings of the church and to the leader of the church, the Pope in Rome, that they could not make objective decisions on behalf of the United States; they would be clouded in their judgment because of the demands of their faith. John Kennedy, a Catholic, went to Texas to a Baptist convention to tell those gathered that his first allegiance as President was to the United States and not to any religion. He said: I believe in America where the separation of church and State is absolute. Many people think that statement and that visit turned the election for John Kennedy, an election which he won by just a very small margin. It dispelled the fears and concerns of many people across the country that a Catholic would be first loyal to Rome and then loyal to the United States. It is an interesting thing to reflect on the view of Catholics in public life in 1960 and the debate which is taking place tonight. The issue has come full circle. Now there are those who argue that because a nominee comes before the Senate and professes to be a Catholic that we cannot ask that nominee questions about his political beliefs. There are many religious beliefs that are also political beliefs. There are some religious beliefs that are not. You can be an adherent to the Jewish religion, keep kosher, and I cannot imagine how that becomes a political issue. What is the purpose of asking a question about that? But whether you are Jewish, Catholic, Protestant, or Muslim, it is appropriate to ask any nominee for a judicial position, Where do you stand on the death penalty? That is a political issue. It is a social issue. And yes, it is also a religious issue. Some have argued tonight if a person comes
OT: On leaving the list as abruptly as I did.
It's been a few days since I unsubscribed. I've had a chance to regain some perspective. I have subscribed to the list again, but am filtering posts for now. For now, I will only recieve messages with OT: or Brin: in the subject First of all, a few have asked if it was the actions of another list-member that drove me to leave. The answer to that is No. The reason was a combination of things, including lack of interest in the discussions going on at the time, inability to keep up with the list load, but most of all it was a knee-jerk reaction I had to a very, very bad dream. The dream I had really did hurt me that much. I didn't want to stay after that for fear of more dreams like that. I have been battling insomnia since then. Fortunately, my dreams since then have not been unpleasant, and my sleep schedule is flexible, so I can sleep to noon if I can't fall asleep until 4 am (one of the benefits of freelace work). I'm dealing with the dream and the issues it brought up. Upon reflection, the list was only a part of what brought on the dream. The dream itself reflected on many facets of my life, and I think I just have to get my life heading in the right direction again. I'm contemplating my options right now. I am considering the option of going back to College to work towards a Master's in Computer Science. If I want to enroll in any classes for the fall, I will have to sign up soon though. I will just be taking undergraduate prerequisit courses, so enrolling won't be difficult or require going through approval for a Master's program, which I have no doubt that I already missed the deadline for the fall semester anyway. I will probably turn off the filters to the list when I have more time for it or after I read The Fellowship of the Ring (which will probably be around mid September as I am only about one- quarter through reading The Hobbit and have been a bit too busy to read much recently), whichever comes first. I apologize for the abruptness of my departure, and am sorry if it worried anyone. Michael Harney [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Lance!
Jon Gabriel wrote: From: Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dan's mother wasn't interested in football when she married Dan's father. A Texas immigrant, huh? Acutally, *she* is the Texas native, *he's* the immigrant. Professional football wasn't a big deal when she was growing up. I don't know if she got to go to high school games when she was in high school. (She was out in the country, on a dairy farm, and they all got up early every day.) The only sporting events I've heard her talking about attending when she was young were baseball games. The Dallas Cowboys weren't even in existence until she was over 20. Now, her sons were raised as good Texans. ;) Julia Hook 'Em Horns! ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
The seven habits of highly ineffective list-subscribers
Jon Gabriel wrote: From: William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 19:31:30 +0100 It's not as bad as another list where I am 41359 behind... Yeah, I gave up on one list when I hit 25K unread posts. The only mail folder I have that's anywhere near approaching that sort of unread-ness has a number of different lists filtering into it, so I can console myself that I'm not *that* far behind on any individual list. (Not sure just how bad it is, but I got through all the posts from 2002 in there sometime in April, and just haven't gotten to reading it much since then.) Julia not sure just what the 7 habits were, but it was time for a subject change, and she was trying to be cute ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies
Jon wrote: Never give up! Never surrender! (Kudos if you can name the reference.) ;-) Capt. Taggert in Galaxy Quest! One of the best hard sci-fi movies IMHO. ;-p Patrick Patrick Schlichtenmyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Be silly. Be honest. Be kind. -Ralph Waldo Emerson - Get your FREE email address at www.gogoworld.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jon wrote: Never give up! Never surrender! (Kudos if you can name the reference.) ;-) Capt. Taggert in Galaxy Quest! Doh! You're right! I was going to say Winston Churchill! (I was thinking of his We shall defend our island speech). _ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies
--- Jon Gabriel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Jan Coffey [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 02:01:52 -0700 (PDT) --- Ritu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jan Coffey wrote: And before anyone misunderstands me, -NO- I don't want the poor Indean national to have to work 80 hours a week for 1/4 the pay eaither. And -YES- I would like him to be as gainfully employed as me. Indean? You know, Ritu, if you are trying to get under my skin, you are doing a damb good job of it. Should we start discussing your own personal flaws? Jan, I know that you've been hashing this out with Erik (unpleasantly), but please consider that it is perfectly possible that Ritu has not read that thread and isn't aware that you're dyslexic. Personally, I wouldn't assume someone was unless they told me. I regularly skip threads completely here I find it impossible to keep up. (I'm now 591 posts behind.) I'm sure that others do the same. If it were me, I'd give Ritu the benefit of the doubt. Jon Indeed. I did possibly act in too hasty a manner. It is, however, important to know that %20 of the world population is far enough to my side of the axis to be labled dyslexic. The inability to spell properly in an illogical system such as English should never be used for ridicule, especialy not to adress ones inteligence. In fact, since my kind is over-represented in the list of mental achievers, the inability to spell English is more likely a sign of high, or at least highly unique, intelagence than it is of low or cripled intelagence. The very act of ridiculing, or even admiting to being able to recognize misspellings suggests that the person is from the %80 of the population that is more likely to be unremarkable. So, Ritu, my sincerist appologies. = _ Jan William Coffey _ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 13:14:12 -0700 (PDT) Jon wrote: Never give up! Never surrender! (Kudos if you can name the reference.) ;-) Capt. Taggert in Galaxy Quest! One of the best hard sci-fi movies IMHO. ;-p Give the man a cigar! (And a beer or something for remembering Tim Allen's character's name). :) Agreed. Excellent movie. Jon It's a Rock Monster! It doesn't HAVE motivation! Le Blog: http://zarq.livejournal.com _ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies
--- Jan Coffey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is, however, important to know that %20 of the world population is far enough to my side of the axis to be labled dyslexic. The inability to spell properly in an illogical system such as English should never be used for ridicule, especialy not to adress ones inteligence. Jan William Coffey This'll probably make Jan feel worse, but a neurologist friend of mine says that I'm a textbook case of someone who is mildly dyslexic - that's not a formal diagnosis, but I guess a neurologist is qualified to give an expert opinion. So there's probably more than one on the list. = Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] Freedom is not free http://www.mukunda.blogspot.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies
On Thursday, July 31, 2003, at 08:02 pm, Jon Gabriel wrote: Never give up! Never surrender! (Kudos if you can name the reference.) ;-) Galaxy Quest? -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ Those who study history are doomed to repeat it. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The Case for a Marriage Ammendment to the Constitution
--- Adam C. Lipscomb wrote: snip You've taken the classic boob's line, God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve! and slapped a new coat of pain on it, but it's still bereft of real substance, and just as ridiculous. While a man and a woman are required for the initial act, it does not necessarily follow that both sexes are required for every step after that. And nowadays only the 'products' of a man and a woman are required to create a zygote, although a woman is still needed to carry the pregnancy to term. I have yet to see compelling evidence that gay adoptive parents, screened to the same degree as a heterosexual couple, are less fit as parents. Agreed, although if I were counseling such a couple today I'd advise them to live in a supportive community such as one of the big port cities (New York, San Fran, New Orleans etc.) or other progressive places like Austin, to cut down on the bullying such children would be subjected to in, say, Pineville, Louisiana. Also, I think it is important to have role models of the opposite gender available* for the children (aunts, uncles, family friends etc.). *By this I mean that the children get to interact with them on at least a weekly basis. Cameron and Cameron's reanalysis of published data in 2002 indicates children being raised in a home environment with at least one homosexual parent report some negative consequences. However, a closer look at the information presented suggests (especially in the absence of control groups) that the negative consequences documented do not constitute major psychological trauma. Rather, they are more in the nature of the teasing and bullying that plagues any child who comes from a home that may be atypical in any fashion. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrievedb=PubMedlist_uids=12353800dopt=Abstract Note: you can access the abstract that reports problems via the above link; I must point out that it is a small study (N=57), and produced by the Family Research Institute, Inc., Colorado Springs, CO -- a _very_ conservative group with a definite agenda. [Colorado Springs is the home of 'Focus on the Family' and other arch-conservative groups that IMO have a 1950's view of the world.] If you enter homosexual parents in the 'search' box, ~24 studies come up - nearly all of the ones that show a negative effect on the children are from this same group. Note also that adopted children do tend to have more psychological problems at baseline, so a proper study control for adopted children of gay parents would be adopted children of heterosexual parents, not biological children of straight parents. I think that if someone can demonstrate that they're able to care for a child emotionally, physically and financially, they should be allowed to adopt. Agreed. If two adults capable of giving informed consent want to make a commitment to care for each other over the long term, they should be allowed toA Marriage Amendment to the Constitution would, in the long run, be a bigger mistake than prohibition (although for different reasons, and with different results). A Marriage Amendment acts to protect a few delicate sensibilities in the face of a change that is moving ever closer, and will be as effective in the long run as Jim Crow and Separate but equal. Similar arguments were made about interracial marriages, IIRC, and while I think that 2 decades ago it was difficult for biracial children WRT bullying etc., young people like Tiger Woods show that loving parents are more important an influence than a hostile culture, and indeed they help transform that culture to one that is more open and tolerant. Debbi __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The seven habits of highly ineffective list-subscribers
From: Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: The seven habits of highly ineffective list-subscribers Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 15:08:50 -0500 Jon Gabriel wrote: From: William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 19:31:30 +0100 It's not as bad as another list where I am 41359 behind... Yeah, I gave up on one list when I hit 25K unread posts. The only mail folder I have that's anywhere near approaching that sort of unread-ness has a number of different lists filtering into it, so I can console myself that I'm not *that* far behind on any individual list. I read that as 'approaching that sort of unread mess'. Freudian slip, I guess. (Not sure just how bad it is, but I got through all the posts from 2002 in there sometime in April, and just haven't gotten to reading it much since then.) I keep telling myself I'll get to them eventually but I probably won't. not sure just what the 7 habits were, but it was time for a subject change, and she was trying to be cute It's a great subject header. :) Jon Le Blog: http://zarq.livejournal.com _ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The seven habits of highly ineffective list-subscribers
--- Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jon Gabriel wrote: From: William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 19:31:30 +0100 It's not as bad as another list where I am 41359 behind... Yeah, I gave up on one list when I hit 25K unread posts. The only mail folder I have that's anywhere near approaching that sort of unread-ness has a number of different lists filtering into it, so I can console myself that I'm not *that* far behind on any individual list. (Not sure just how bad it is, but I got through all the posts from 2002 in there sometime in April, and just haven't gotten to reading it much since then.) I simply pick threads that I think, from the title, might be interesting. However, A quick check of the threads that I have posted on will show that nearly every one is killed when someone attacks me for misspelling. How Unfortuanate, especialy for those who started the thread in hopes to have a real discussion instead of a flame war centered around one listmemebers -uniqe way of processing- (or even disability if you like). I am unsure how many people are actualy on this list, but given that %20 of the population is like me, (perhaps not to my extream, but still), and even though this list is centered around an author of fiction, an is infact and -E-MAIL- list, I should still not be the only one. I know that dyslexics tend to shy away from e-mail lists, and you can imagine why. If everytime they have anything to say on a list they are confronted with attacks on their ability to spell, then they probably would prefer to simply stop participating. This is also very unfortunate. Well, sorry, I don't give up that easy. At the same time I can get a bit testy. Can you blame me? When I am attacked for spelling and not for content I get the impression, as I am sure many do, that the attacker doesn't like what I have to say, but can find no flaw, or angle for dispute. Or more likely they are unable to read phoneticaly, and so never arive at content. Whatever the reason, it is getting rather annoying, and I am starting to feel like an oppressed minority, so STOP IT! Now, would anyone like to actualy talk about the article for which this thread is titled? = _ Jan William Coffey _ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The Case for a Marriage Ammendment to the Constitution
--- Robert Seeberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snippage ...my thinking has gone off on a bit of a tangent: In Texas, (and I have to assume that things are done in a similar fashion in the rest of the US) when there is a divorce, a child of tender years (age 9 and under in Texas) is automatically made the custody of the mother. The argument being that a young child needs a mother on a daily basis more than he/she needs a father. This brings questions to mind immediately: * If homosexual men are allowed to adopt children under 10 years of age, will this not constitute prejudice against divorced heterosexual men? Huh, I'll bet a lawyer could argue that; I'd have to say that if the mother is 'fit' and breastfeeding, though, I'd give her custody (although joint custody is preferable IMO unless one of the parents is clearly unfit, or chooses to give up custody). * Will homosexual women be given preference to adopt children over homosexual men? I'm guessing yes, at least right now. * Will divorce law have to be modified to eliminate these prejudices (if they indeed exist)? I do think they exist, and if custody cannot be joint, I'd want the most 'fit' parent to have it. Of course, then you have to define 'fit'... ['unfitness' I think would be more clear, and easier to determine] * How would custody be arranged for divorcing homosexuals who have adopted children? (How would you determine who the custodial parent would be?) I know a lesbian couple who had a child, with one being the biological mother and the other being the biological aunt (sperm donor was her brother) -- custody went to the 'aunt,' I think b/c the mother was medically 'unfit.' But I guess I'd have to use the 'fitness' criteria again for your case; all else being equal, I'd consider things like family support systems (joint custody still preferable from my POV). It seems to me that allowing homosexuals to adopt children will have consequences that extend beyond the original question of qualification, and would actually be a benefit to heterosexual men who desire custody of their children. That seems quite possible. I'll try to bounce this off some lawyer friends. Can 'O Worms Maru rob You Got That Straight! Maru ;) Debbi __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: How we were hoodwinked
--- Matt Grimaldi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Erik Reuter wrote: Julia Thompson wrote: Erik Reuter wrote: Since we are being snippy... rest snipped snip (All this snipping is reminding me of the story about the 3 mythical women who cut the strings of people's lives when their time is up) The Loom of Thelassy (sp?) I liked that short story. I didn't like the original Greek one -- was there perhaps a similar Nordic myth also?... -- at any rate, the notion of predestination and one's fate being entirely in another's hands is anathema to me. But I guess that just means I'm thoroughly indoctrinated with one of our 'Western' memes... :) Karma Or Free Will Maru __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Robotic Singularity
--- Jim Sharkey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip This may tag me as some kind of Luddite, but I find it appalling that people can't wait to excise as much human contact from their lives as possible. I know people that would rather eat nails than actually have to go to the bank for three whole minutes. No one's time is really that important, is it? Well, I still walk into the bank to make deposits and whatnot (one branch is near home, another near the stable, and with so many 'little' checks instead of one monthly paycheck, I like to 'supervise' -- no control issues here! ;} ). The Article's To Be Read, But I'm *'Way* Behind On That File Maru __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jon wrote: Never give up! Never surrender! (Kudos if you can name the reference.) ;-) Capt. Taggert in Galaxy Quest! One of the best hard sci-fi movies IMHO. ;-p Hey, it won the Hugo. Don't knock it. Julia one of the people responsible for that ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The seven habits of highly ineffective list-subscribers
Jan Coffey wrote: Now, would anyone like to actualy talk about the article for which this thread is titled? Hm. After a bit of thinking, I have: 1) Automatically assumes that anyone disagreeing on a particular point takes the *extreme* position in the direction of the disagreement. 2) Assumes that everyone else thinks the way they do, and has the same strengths and weaknesses, as well. 3) Has a chip on the shoulder about some particular issue. That's all I have so far. Anyone else? (Of course, that doesn't cover *subscribers* so much as *participants* -- and you don't really participate much if you're 6 months behind, do you?) Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Lance!
Adam C. Lipscomb wrote: I wrote: Hate football, hate watching it. I'd rather get a boil lanced than watch football. My wife and kids are the same, and I'll do my best to keep them pure, thankyouverymuch. Of course, it goes without saying that I'm not going to stop others from enjoying football. To each his own, eh? OK, if Thanksgiving is at our house and you want to come over to scarf down some really good cornbread dressing, just stay out of the living room. If you hang around the breakfast nook and keep anyone in the kitchen company, you'll have made at least one friend. :) (And if you offer to help so that if someone in the kitchen wanted to be watching the game, they could, someone would be *really* happy.) Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies
Gautam Mukunda wrote: --- Jan Coffey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is, however, important to know that %20 of the world population is far enough to my side of the axis to be labled dyslexic. The inability to spell properly in an illogical system such as English should never be used for ridicule, especialy not to adress ones inteligence. Jan William Coffey This'll probably make Jan feel worse, but a neurologist friend of mine says that I'm a textbook case of someone who is mildly dyslexic - that's not a formal diagnosis, but I guess a neurologist is qualified to give an expert opinion. So there's probably more than one on the list. Dan is dyslexic. When he's writing by hand, he'll write the letters in a word in the wrong order sometimes -- but he figured out how to compensate by moving the position of the writing instrument back and forth so the word comes *out* spelled correctly. He was never diagnosed. Managed to compensate to the point where they wouldn't have diagnosed it. Realized it later. His father is also somewhat dyslexic. Never stopped him from being a good engineer. Now, I think the thing to do when you encounter someone with atrocious spelling is, try to figure everything out from context; if the context leaves a word or two in an ambiguous state, ask the poster what they meant. Paraphrase the two (or more) possible meanings of the sentence, and ask which one they meant. And don't be mean about it. And if your spelling is that bad, and clarification is asked for -- at least you know that someone wants to understand your point better, and will appreciate the clarification once you give it, so be as gracious as you can. (Being gracious is not a strong suit of some folks here; it's one thing I know *I'm* working on improving.) Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The Case for a Marriage Ammendment to the Constitution
--- Robert Seeberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snippage ...my thinking has gone off on a bit of a tangent: In Texas, (and I have to assume that things are done in a similar fashion in the rest of the US) when there is a divorce, a child of tender years (age 9 and under in Texas) is automatically made the custody of the mother. The argument being that a young child needs a mother on a daily basis more than he/she needs a father. This brings questions to mind immediately: * If homosexual men are allowed to adopt children under 10 years of age, will this not constitute prejudice against divorced heterosexual men? Just thought of a scenario not handled by this: Woman man marry Woman man have baby Woman man get divorced Woman gets custody Woman marries another man Woman is killed in an accident when child is 6 years old Who gets primary custody at *this* point? The bio-dad or the step-dad? Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The Case for a Marriage Ammendment to the Constitution
At 16:31 2003-07-31 -0500, Julia wrote: Just thought of a scenario not handled by this: Woman man marry Woman man have baby Woman man get divorced Woman gets custody Woman marries another man Woman is killed in an accident when child is 6 years old Who gets primary custody at *this* point? The bio-dad or the step-dad? Julia Exactly the kind of situation which stresses the point that there shouldn't be mandatory rules in custody cases. The questions that need to be answered before a case like this could be decided would include: How involved in the child's life were both fathers? Does the child have any stepsiblings? On which side? Family situations can get VERY complicated. Mine was, let's say, eventful. Jean-Louis ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The seven habits of highly ineffective list-subscribers
Jan Coffey wrote: Now, would anyone like to actualy talk about the article for which this thread is titled? At 16:25 2003-07-31 -0500, Julia wrote: Hm. After a bit of thinking, I have: 1) Automatically assumes that anyone disagreeing on a particular point takes the *extreme* position in the direction of the disagreement. Would this habit include When reading a post that describes situation similar to one's own, subscriber assumes post is a personal attack ? Jean-Louis guilty Couturier ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies
At 05:09 PM 7/30/03 -0700, Jan Coffey wrote: There are dangers there. Take these seven factors and turn them around. Some of them will not sound so pleasing once you get under the surface and down to the WHY the Lt. Cln. addresses. Sorry, Lt. Cln. = ? Light Clinton? Lieutenant Colon? --Ronn! :) I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Dr. Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies
Jon Gabriel wrote: If it were me, I'd give Ritu the benefit of the doubt. Conversely, if we are going to start pulling up people every time they make a spelling mistake or a typing error, it's going to degenerate very very quickly. I know Ritu is very proud of her heritage and all that, but it was a simple error that we all make every day - maybe Jan deserved the benefit of the doubt as well. Cheers Russell C. (and if I've made a typo in this, just forgive me my sins and move on...) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The seven habits of highly ineffective list-subscribers
--- Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jan Coffey wrote: Now, would anyone like to actualy talk about the article for which this thread is titled? Hm. After a bit of thinking, I have: About the article or the sidetrack? 1) Automatically assumes that anyone disagreeing on a particular point takes the *extreme* position in the direction of the disagreement. Uh? hmmm? I don't remember doing that, why do you say that? 2) Assumes that everyone else thinks the way they do, and has the same strengths and weaknesses, as well. I most certainly never do that. you must be talking to someone else?...bafeled. 3) Has a chip on the shoulder about some particular issue. Ok, that shew fits. Yes it seems that I do, but you know, most of us do don't we? (The Human most of us in addition to the Dyslexic most of us). If every time you made a post on this list you were acosted by the spelling police, you might have a chip on your shoulder as well. Wait, let me make it more clear, what if every time -you- made a post, your comments (whether they be agreed with or not) were ignored, and instead someone steped in with some snide dig on your [gender]? Or any other [feature] you posses. Wouldn't you have a chip on your shoulder after a while as well? You know, having a chip on your shoulder doesn't mean there is anything wrong with you. That's all I have so far. Anyone else? (Of course, that doesn't cover *subscribers* so much as *participants* -- and you don't really participate much if you're 6 months behind, do you?) Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l = _ Jan William Coffey _ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The seven habits of highly ineffective list-subscribers
Julia Thompson wrote: Jan Coffey wrote: Now, would anyone like to actualy talk about the article for which this thread is titled? Hm. After a bit of thinking, I have: 1) Automatically assumes that anyone disagreeing on a particular point takes the *extreme* position in the direction of the disagreement. 2) Assumes that everyone else thinks the way they do, and has the same strengths and weaknesses, as well. 3) Has a chip on the shoulder about some particular issue. That's all I have so far. Anyone else? 4) Jumps into a thread with highly opinionated and/or confrontational responses without having read most of the previous responses. Doug ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Scouted: Surgery on Brain Tumor 'cures' pedophile
Ronn!Blankenship [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jon Gabriel wrote: From: Ronn!Blankenship [EMAIL PROTECTED] OK, I'm pretty sure I've lost the attributions somewhere along the line, but it wasn't intentional! [Jon or Ronn! I think posted:] http://www.salon.com/mwt/wire/2003/07/28/pedophile/index.html The man had an egg-sized brain tumor pressing on the right frontal lobe. When surgeons removed it, the lewd behavior and pedophilia faded away... snip Dr. Stuart C. Yudofsky, a psychiatrist at the Baylor College of Medicine who specializes in behavioral changes associated with brain disorders, also has seen the way brain tumors can bend a person's behavior. This tells us something about being human, doesn't it? Yudofsky said. If one's actions are governed by how well the brain is working, does it mean we have less free will than we think? Frontal lobe tumors can be clinically 'silent' for years, or they can cause subtle - profound behavioral and personality changes - this is not a new finding. Although the pedophilia effect is, AFAIK. snip So what do we do to protect society from those who commit heinous crimes where either (1) no organic problem can be found, (2) an organic problem is found, but we don't know how to treat it, or (3) an organic problem is found and treated, but the behavior does not change? Well, in the case of pedophiles, that would be: 1) Firing Squad 2) Firing Squad 3) Castration, then Firing Squad Yes, I'm serious. I think they're repulsive. I think we agree on that. Think I said the much the same last year. To answer your question in a different way, I suppose the solution may just be to give people a test to see if they have a tumor that, if removed, may cure them. If they don't, prosecute. If no other medical condition has been found to conclusively cause aberrant behavior of this type then the theory that one might is probably legally irrelevant. snappish mode I'm sure some lawyer somewhere will try, though. Here's the COW, as I see it: In many jurisdictions, one can be found not guilty due to mental defect or disease (or words to that effect), i.e., what is often referred to as the insanity defense. Let's suppose a pedophile, or a murderer, or a insert heinous crime of your choice here is found to have a brain tumor (or other clearly diagnosable organic brain dysfunction). Do we: (a) declare him not guilty due to his illness and let him go because legally he is not guilty of anything? Not without the offending condition being treated; if it's untreatable, he's incarcerated as criminally insane -- and never leaves unless a cure is later discovered -- which was one of your options: (b) or submit to treatment for the illness, and if the illness cannot be treatedcommit him to a secure mental institution for at least the same amount of time, or until such time as he does respond to treatment? (BTW, how do you tell for sure if a pedophile has really been cured except by letting him out and observing that he does not re-offend?) There is no other sure way, unfortunately. While I would be inclined toward something like (b) (IANAL so don't yell at me if I have put some of it incorrectly), I expect that many will say either (1) He's been found not guilty, so legally he should be free to go, or (2) Mentally ill people should not be imprisoned like common criminals, or something of that sort. Do we need to change the laws to allow for a verdict of guilty but insane which would require the person to be confined for the protection of society until he is no longer a danger and receive treatment if any is available? Yes. However I can see a huge potential for abuse by 'the system' here. Oversight or otherwise independent committees would have to be created. In the latter case, do we make these people guinea pigs for experimental treatments which may or may not cure their problem (although there certainly are treatments which will cause them to no longer be a danger to society: a radical prefrontal lobotomy, frex, though the result of such an extreme treatment may well be that they will have to be institutionalized for the rest of their lives because they are no longer able to function well enough to care for themselves), or what? Mmm, the thought of such experimental treatments makes my blood run cold. The problem with offering these people a choice between potentially curative therapy (which I am assuming carries significant risk to the offender, b/c if there was low risk then I wouldn't object strongly to it - just as we require jailed inmates with TB to take anti-tuberculous medication for the protection of the prison population), and lifelong incarceration, is that they are likely not competent to make such decisions; they would have to have medical-legal guardians/power-of-attorney, probably court-appointed (another
Re: Irregulars question: Milky Way
At 01:28 PM 7/31/03 -0300, Alberto Monteiro wrote: I've seen some maps of the Milky Way, and the mapmakers usually don't bother to orient it. When we see it from the Galactic North Pole, does it look like something that is rotating clockwise or counterclockwise? The normal direction of rotation is in the sense that the spiral arms would seem to be winding up tighter, e.g.: /¯¯\ /\ | /¯\ | | | | \_§¯\ | \ | | \/ | \ / \/ (Try looking at that in a fixed-width font.) However, there's at least one spiral galaxy which apparently rotates backwards: http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/releases/2002/release_2002_33.html [I guess the spiral arms would rotate faster closer to the center] No! http://aether.lbl.gov/www/projects/neutrino/agn/rotation_curve.html In fact, the fact that the rotation curve is nearly flat is one of the main reasons astronomers must assume the existence of dark matter: http://www.astro.utu.fi/~cflynn/rotcve.html -- Ronn! :) Ronn Blankenship Instructor of Astronomy/Planetary Science University of Montevallo Montevallo, AL Disclaimer: Unless specifically stated otherwise, any opinions contained herein are the personal opinions of the author and do not represent the official position of the University of Montevallo. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: School adopts unconstitutional bible classes
From http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=33839: Released Time Religious Education was started in 1914 by a public school superintendent in Gary, Indiana, and was approved by the U.S. Supreme Court in 1952. At 06:11 PM 7/11/03 -0500, The Fool wrote: http://www.augustachronicle.com/stories/071103/met_174-8955.000.shtml School board approves Bible class Web posted Thursday, July 10, 2003 By Greg Rickabaugh | Staff Writer An off-campus Christian education program was approved for a full year Thursday for one Richmond County school, but some school board members have growing concerns about the controversial course. [snip for brevity] --Ronn! :) I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Dr. Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies
--- Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Jan Coffey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is, however, important to know that %20 of the world population is far enough to my side of the axis to be labled dyslexic. The inability to spell properly in an illogical system such as English should never be used for ridicule, especially not to address ones intelligence. Jan William Coffey This'll probably make Jan feel worse, but a neurologist friend of mine says that I'm a textbook case of someone who is mildly dyslexic - that's not a formal diagnosis, but I guess a neurologist is qualified to give an expert opinion. So there's probably more than one on the list. Why would it make me feel worse? Because I spell worse than anyone else? I always do, I am on the extreme end of the axis. What does tend to irritate me is when people point to someone who is mildly dyslexic and use them as an example of someone with dyslexia who has learned to spell. And then make the leap to say that I, and other dyslexics like me are lazy. That would be like pointing to someone who is hard of hearing and saying that since they can hear a little bit, that all deaf people would be able to hear better if they just tried harder. Let me put it this way, If anyone can tell me exactly how they remember what the proper spelling of words are, then I could learn it. Not just how you learned, but the mechanical process you use. It is highly unlikely that anyone will be able to do this. The part of the brain most use to remember proper spellings is automatic. It works in much the same way that your hand will recoil from a hot surface. And that same part of the dyslexic brain doesn't do the same thing. It's not damaged, it does work, it just doesn't do that process. The non-dyslexic doesn't require language to follow a logical or organized set of rules because the part of their brain they use to process the language doesn't work that way. The dyslexic requires a logical set of rules. They don't remember disjointed facts, they remember systems, abstractions, and connections. If the rules are broken (as they are in most natural languages), then no system will fit, and what you get is a somewhat chaotic response. I don't feel sorry for myself or bad because I spell poorly, I simply don't believe that %20 of the population should be subject to harassment because of their genetics. If %20 of people have (at least some) difficulty with the way Language is constructed, and yet do not have difficulty with any other system, then it is language, and not the dyslexic which is broken. = _ Jan William Coffey _ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies
At 03:02 PM 7/31/03 -0400, Jon Gabriel wrote: From: William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 19:31:30 +0100 On Thursday, July 31, 2003, at 06:03 pm, Jon Gabriel wrote: I regularly skip threads completely here I find it impossible to keep up. (I'm now 591 posts behind.) I'm sure that others do the same. I'm 1115 behind :) I don't know whether to admit defeat or not... Never give up! Never surrender! (Kudos if you can name the reference.) ;-) Extra points for identifying the writer's religion. --Ronn! :) I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Dr. Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: fight hte evil of price discrimination
--- The Fool [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/jul2003/tc20030731_6139_tc073.htm PRIVACY MATTERS By Jane Black Sharper Tools for Discriminatory Pricing Expert Andrew Odlyzko explains how tech advances are making it much easier to charge one price for you and another for your neighbor Why do corporations want your personal data? The simple answer, according to Andrew Odlyzko, the director of the University of Minnesota's Digital Technology Center, is that such information is the key to a holy grail of capitalism: discriminatory pricing. Economic theory posits that price discrimination -- where companies charge individuals based on their ability to pay and their value as a customer -- is desirable since it makes trade more efficient. Yet it rankles consumers, who perceive differential pricing as unfair. The fact that business travelers, whose corporations can arguably afford it, pay more for airline seats than a vacationer has made air travel more popular and routine. At the same time, the price discrimination that charges two people different prices for the same class of service infuriates those who pay more. snipped rest And on the other hand, there's charging more to the less-fortunate: http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36~33~1527009,00.html ...Uninsured patients don't get the same discounts hospitals give to managed-care plans, and these patients often pay far more for the same medical care. The Denver Post reported in January that uninsured patients in the city can pay up to four times as much for the same services... With medical insurance costs prohibitive to so many of the working poor, they're caught between sacrificing to pay the premiums, or paying out the wazoo if they have to be hospitalized (or are taken to the ER). The self-insured also pay much higher prices: http://www.businessword.com/pMachine/comments/476_0_1_0_C/ Debbi who doesn't have the answers, but would start with educating people (beginning in elementary school) with the hazards associated with certain lifestyle choices - and gradually making people responsible for their own folly -- we could ~ halve the chronic disease burden with lifestyle changes __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies
--- Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Gautam Mukunda wrote: --- Jan Coffey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is, however, important to know that %20 of the world population is far enough to my side of the axis to be labled dyslexic. The inability to spell properly in an illogical system such as English should never be used for ridicule, especialy not to adress ones inteligence. Jan William Coffey This'll probably make Jan feel worse, but a neurologist friend of mine says that I'm a textbook case of someone who is mildly dyslexic - that's not a formal diagnosis, but I guess a neurologist is qualified to give an expert opinion. So there's probably more than one on the list. Dan is dyslexic. When he's writing by hand, he'll write the letters in a word in the wrong order sometimes -- but he figured out how to compensate by moving the position of the writing instrument back and forth so the word comes *out* spelled correctly. Transposing letters is not what happens when someone is dyslexic. It is most gernelay a case of the brain working faster than the hand can write. While this is generaly a -feature- that dyslexics are more likely to have, the reason that they spell incorectly or have dificulty reading has very very little or nothing at all to do with word or letter order, or word or letter orientation. Most dyslexic children do not at first understand that letter orientation in 2 demensions is important. But this dificulty goes away as soon as the 2d-ness of letters is explained. That view of dyslexia is, in part, what leads to much confusion. The real dificulty has to do with phenomes and the representation of those phenomes. I helped create the following example for a learning center. It is intended to help non-dyslexics understand how a dyslexic views the system of symbolic language we use. It is for most a very frustraiting puzzle, and while I can not show it in this format with the colours that were intended, and while the lack of colour leaves the puzzle a bit open, I think you will get the idea. These letters represent english sounds, and corospond to a colour which will be used as the key. j - orange sh - red i - bluee - purple l - green r - yellow i - brown u - white v - black n - aqua s - pink t - baby blue oo - bright green the sentecne reads: [orngeish red] [bluish purple] [yelowish green] [tan] [very dark blueish green] [pink] [baby blue] [bright green almost white] [green] [purpleish blue] [cream] [very dark greenish blue so dark it is almost black] Translate the sentence into english. = _ Jan William Coffey _ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The Case for a Marriage Amendment to the Constitution
At 04:31 PM 7/31/03 -0500, Julia Thompson wrote: --- Robert Seeberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snippage ...my thinking has gone off on a bit of a tangent: In Texas, (and I have to assume that things are done in a similar fashion in the rest of the US) when there is a divorce, a child of tender years (age 9 and under in Texas) is automatically made the custody of the mother. The argument being that a young child needs a mother on a daily basis more than he/she needs a father. This brings questions to mind immediately: * If homosexual men are allowed to adopt children under 10 years of age, will this not constitute prejudice against divorced heterosexual men? Just thought of a scenario not handled by this: Woman man marry Woman man have baby Woman man get divorced Woman gets custody Woman marries another man Woman is killed in an accident when child is 6 years old Who gets primary custody at *this* point? The bio-dad or the step-dad? One factor which might (or might should -- who knows what the courts would do) have some bearing is what the child's age was when the divorce occurred. If the child was very young at the time of the divorce, the only Dad s/he may have ever known is the stepfather. OTOH, if the child was 5 years and 11 months old when the divorce became final and the mom remarried . . . --Ronn! :) I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Dr. Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies
At 04:29 PM 7/31/03 -0500, Julia Thompson wrote: Gautam Mukunda wrote: --- Jan Coffey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is, however, important to know that %20 of the world population is far enough to my side of the axis to be labled dyslexic. The inability to spell properly in an illogical system such as English should never be used for ridicule, especialy not to adress ones inteligence. Jan William Coffey This'll probably make Jan feel worse, but a neurologist friend of mine says that I'm a textbook case of someone who is mildly dyslexic - that's not a formal diagnosis, but I guess a neurologist is qualified to give an expert opinion. So there's probably more than one on the list. Dan is dyslexic. When he's writing by hand, he'll write the letters in a word in the wrong order sometimes -- but he figured out how to compensate by moving the position of the writing instrument back and forth so the word comes *out* spelled correctly. He was never diagnosed. Managed to compensate to the point where they wouldn't have diagnosed it. Realized it later. His father is also somewhat dyslexic. Never stopped him from being a good engineer. Now, I think the thing to do when you encounter someone with atrocious spelling is, try to figure everything out from context; if the context leaves a word or two in an ambiguous state, ask the poster what they meant. Paraphrase the two (or more) possible meanings of the sentence, and ask which one they meant. And don't be mean about it. And if your spelling is that bad, and clarification is asked for -- at least you know that someone wants to understand your point better, and will appreciate the clarification once you give it, so be as gracious as you can. (Being gracious is not a strong suit of some folks here; it's one thing I know *I'm* working on improving.) And, FWIW, whenever I ask Jan for clarification, it is because I really didn't understand which may very well be more my fault than anyone else's but really want to know. --Ronn! :) I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Dr. Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Lance!
At 09:33 AM 7/31/03 -0500, Julia Thompson wrote: I have an ambivalent attitude about baseball. Trying not to get sucked into the whole Who's ahead -- the Red Sox or the Yankees? thing that I tormented myself with in college, and if I start paying too much attention to baseball, that's going to happen. I'll watch hockey, but I'm never glued to it for 3 whole periods. (I was watching it a lot more when Sammy was under a year old and still being breastfed a fair bit -- nothing like a sporting event when you're sitting there with a baby attached to your nipple.) Yes. I know that whenever I'm at the stadium, being able to watch the section composed of breast feeding mothers adds so much to the experience . . . -- Ronn! :) Professional Smart-Aleck. Do Not Attempt. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The seven habits of highly ineffective list-subscribers
--- Doug Pensinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Julia Thompson wrote: Jan Coffey wrote: Now, would anyone like to actually talk about the article for which this thread is titled? Hm. After a bit of thinking, I have: 1) Automatically assumes that anyone disagreeing on a particular point takes the *extreme* position in the direction of the disagreement. 2) Assumes that everyone else thinks the way they do, and has the same strengths and weaknesses, as well. 3) Has a chip on the shoulder about some particular issue. That's all I have so far. Anyone else? 4) Jumps into a thread with highly opinionated and/or confrontational responses without having read most of the previous responses. Once again I am assuming from the context that you are addressing me specifically. so in response. I am generally not very opinionated, in fact I am very comfortable running through an issue in a state of flux. Making points from all sides, and changing my running meeter of sincerity. I.E. my opinions (like many on this list BTW) don't stay the same from day to day, and seldom fit nicely into the box. Confrontational? hmmm? Likely to be disagreed with maybe, but confrontational holds a connotation that I have that response because I am looking to start a fight, or enjoy argument for argument's sake. And that just isn't the case. Without reading all of the posts Well I sometimes do get behind and try and catch up and jump in the middle of something, but I also generally do read all of the posts up to the point where I am responding. The posts which come afterwords are future posts to the ones that I am responding to, even though they have already been made. If you read the list in linear fashion this could be construed as you say. However, if you read it in thread fashion, then you would see that this it is not the case. = _ Jan William Coffey _ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies
--- Ronn!Blankenship [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 04:29 PM 7/31/03 -0500, Julia Thompson wrote: Gautam Mukunda wrote: --- Jan Coffey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is, however, important to know ...dyslexia... And if your spelling is that bad, and clarification is asked for -- at least you know that someone wants to understand your point better, and will appreciate the clarification once you give it, so be as gracious as you can. (Being gracious is not a strong suit of some folks here; it's one thing I know *I'm* working on improving.) And, FWIW, whenever I ask Jan for clarification, it is because I really didn't understand which may very well be more my fault than anyone else's but really want to know. As long as we are on the subject - French words give me the most difficulty. to the point that I often try and abbreviate rather than phoneticize. To answer your question: Loo-tin-at Ker-nal. I was referring to the guy who wrote the article for which this thread is named. = _ Jan William Coffey _ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies
At 05:09 PM 7/31/03 -0700, you wrote: --- Ronn!Blankenship [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 04:29 PM 7/31/03 -0500, Julia Thompson wrote: Gautam Mukunda wrote: --- Jan Coffey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is, however, important to know ...dyslexia... And if your spelling is that bad, and clarification is asked for -- at least you know that someone wants to understand your point better, and will appreciate the clarification once you give it, so be as gracious as you can. (Being gracious is not a strong suit of some folks here; it's one thing I know *I'm* working on improving.) And, FWIW, whenever I ask Jan for clarification, it is because I really didn't understand which may very well be more my fault than anyone else's but really want to know. As long as we are on the subject - French words give me the most difficulty. to the point that I often try and abbreviate rather than phoneticize. To answer your question: Loo-tin-at Ker-nal. I was referring to the guy who wrote the article for which this thread is named. OK. The military rank is spelled Colonel (even though it is pronounced the same way as a kernel of corn) and abbreviated Col. In the US Army, Lieutenant Colonel is usually abbreviated LTC (all caps), while in the US Air Force, the usual abbreviation found in official documents would be Lt. Col. Then there are the English, who pronounce lieutenant as if it were spelled left-tennant (though they spell it the same way as in the US) . . . --Ronn! :) I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Dr. Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies
Jan Coffey wrote: Loo-tin-at Ker-nal. Leftennant Kernal for those of us who recognise Queen Elizabeth II. If Lieutenant is a french word, we say leftennant and USA'ns say Lootenant, what do the French say? Cheers Russell C. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: on pryor nomination [L3]
--- The Fool [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/B?r108:@FIELD(FLD003+s)[EMAIL PROTECTED](DDATE+20030730) massive snippage The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senator from Illinois. Mr. DURBIN. Mr. President, to those of us who have been given this great honor to serve in the Senate, there is a moment when we are asked to take the oath of office. In taking that oath of office, we swear to uphold one document. That document, of course, is the Constitution of the United States of America. We are not asked our religion, nor our beliefs in our religion. We are only asked if we will take an oath to God that we will uphold this Constitution. All of us take it very seriously and all of us take the wording of this Constitution very seriously because within this small document are words that have endured for more than two centuries... snip ...Those are very absolute and clear words. I am a Catholic, born and raised. My mother and father were Catholics. My children have been raised in the Catholic faith... snip John Kennedy, a Catholic, went to Texas to a Baptist convention to tell those gathered that his first allegiance as President was to the United States and not to any religion. He said: I believe in America where the separation of church and State is absolute. snip But for us to be told repeatedly by the other side of the aisle that to oppose William Pryor is to be against him because he is Catholic is just plain wrong, and I resent it. I resent it because, frankly, there are many reasons to oppose his nomination--because of his political beliefs. snip At his confirmation hearing, Senator Feinstein asked him to explain his statement that: . the challenge of the next millennium will be to preserve the American experiment by restoring its Christian perspective. He ducked the question. I think if you are going to serve this Nation and you are going to serve this Constitution, you have to have some sensitivity to the diversity of religious belief in this country. To argue that this is a Christian nation--it may have been in its origin but today it is a nation of great diversity. That diversity is protected by this Constitution. Obviously, Mr. Pryor has some problems in grasping that concept. snip There was one case involving inmates' rights which I thought was particularly noteworthy. He has been a vocal opponent of the right of criminal defendants. In Hope v. Pelzer, Attorney General Pryor vigorously defended Alabama's practice of handcuffing prison inmates to outdoor hitching posts for hours without water or access to bathrooms. The Supreme Court rejected Mr. Pryor's arguments citing the ``obvious cruelty inherent in the practice,'' and calling the practice ``antithetical to human dignity'' and circumstances ``both degrading and dangerous.'' snip I hope and pray that before we utter the next sentence in relation to the Pryor nomination that each of us who has taken an oath to uphold this Constitution will stop and read article VI: No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust in the United States. Those words have guided our Nation for over 200 years. They should guide each of us in good conscience. There's one man who understands how important the separation of church and state are to this country's success - and survival. Debbi __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The seven habits of highly ineffective list-subscribers
Jan Coffey wrote: --- Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jan Coffey wrote: Now, would anyone like to actualy talk about the article for which this thread is titled? Hm. After a bit of thinking, I have: About the article or the sidetrack? About my new subject line. This sub-thread isn't titled for any existing article. :) I figured we could write our own as a collaborative effort, maybe. And to answer all the questions which I cut, I was *not* thinking about you specifically about any particular one, except maybe the chip on the shoulder, and you are not by *any* means the only one to display such here. Sorry if you took it personally -- I didn't mean for you to do so. I was just taking examples of the most negative and thread-derailing sorts of behavior I could recall in the past couple of years or so. Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies
Russell Chapman wrote: Jon Gabriel wrote: If it were me, I'd give Ritu the benefit of the doubt. Conversely, if we are going to start pulling up people every time they make a spelling mistake or a typing error, it's going to degenerate very very quickly. I know Ritu is very proud of her heritage and all that, but it was a simple error that we all make every day - maybe Jan deserved the benefit of the doubt as well. 1) What he said. 2) I'd give Ritu the benefit of the doubt anyway, but that's just 'cause I've read all her posts. :) 3) I'm one of those people who doesn't mind spelling errors pointed out; I spell fairly well and keep a dictionary at hand so I can double-check spelling (and it turns out that some of the words I'm checking, I would have gotten wrong with it). There are a few others who don't mind it, as well. But when in doubt, maybe ask off-list how the poster feels about corrections to spelling. Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies
At 10:20 AM 8/1/03 +1000, Russell Chapman wrote: Jan Coffey wrote: Loo-tin-at Ker-nal. Leftennant Kernal for those of us who recognise Queen Elizabeth II. If Lieutenant is a french word, we say leftennant and USA'ns say Lootenant, what do the French say? oui -- soo -- ren -- der ;-) -- Ronn! :) Professional Smart-Aleck. Do Not Attempt. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The seven habits of highly ineffective list-subscribers
Doug Pensinger wrote: Julia Thompson wrote: Jan Coffey wrote: Now, would anyone like to actualy talk about the article for which this thread is titled? Hm. After a bit of thinking, I have: 1) Automatically assumes that anyone disagreeing on a particular point takes the *extreme* position in the direction of the disagreement. 2) Assumes that everyone else thinks the way they do, and has the same strengths and weaknesses, as well. 3) Has a chip on the shoulder about some particular issue. That's all I have so far. Anyone else? 4) Jumps into a thread with highly opinionated and/or confrontational responses without having read most of the previous responses. Good one. That plus Jean-Louis's suggestion of When reading a post that describes situation similar to one's own, subscriber assumes post is a personal attack makes 5, looks like. Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Lance!
Ronn!Blankenship wrote: At 09:33 AM 7/31/03 -0500, Julia Thompson wrote: I have an ambivalent attitude about baseball. Trying not to get sucked into the whole Who's ahead -- the Red Sox or the Yankees? thing that I tormented myself with in college, and if I start paying too much attention to baseball, that's going to happen. I'll watch hockey, but I'm never glued to it for 3 whole periods. (I was watching it a lot more when Sammy was under a year old and still being breastfed a fair bit -- nothing like a sporting event when you're sitting there with a baby attached to your nipple.) Yes. I know that whenever I'm at the stadium, being able to watch the section composed of breast feeding mothers adds so much to the experience . . . OK, just for that, I'm going to go to a Round Rock Express game next year with the *intent* of breastfeeding one baby or the other during the game. ;) Hey, if you can get take-out from Hooters to bring back to your seat Julia but the take-outs don't include the waitresses ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The Case for a Marriage Ammendment to the Constitution
Julia Thompson wrote: Just thought of a scenario not handled by this: Woman man marry Woman man have baby Woman man get divorced Woman gets custody Woman marries another man Woman is killed in an accident when child is 6 years old Who gets primary custody at *this* point? The bio-dad or the step-dad? This is something that keeps me awake at night... My ex-wife is a fruit-loop who has no concept of responsibility at any level, and can't cope with the children for more than an overnight visit every few months. My second wife, despite having been thrown in the deep end with no preparation and all the challenges that step-parents face, is a wonderful mother who would do (and does) anything and everything for the children. My custody of the children is just a casual agreement between us, there is no court order. If something happenned to me, the default position of the authorities would be to return the children to their natural mother, and her family would want that to happen (my family would not!). I have a clause in my will that basically begs the authorities to leave the children with their step mother, which they may take note of, but that is as much as I can do. Obviously, as the children get older the risk is less and less, but when they were 6 it was a real concern about which I had no control. (they're 10 13 now). Cheers Russell C. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The Case for a Marriage Ammendment to the Constitution
Russell Chapman wrote: Julia Thompson wrote: Just thought of a scenario not handled by this: Woman man marry Woman man have baby Woman man get divorced Woman gets custody Woman marries another man Woman is killed in an accident when child is 6 years old Who gets primary custody at *this* point? The bio-dad or the step-dad? This is something that keeps me awake at night... My ex-wife is a fruit-loop who has no concept of responsibility at any level, and can't cope with the children for more than an overnight visit every few months. My second wife, despite having been thrown in the deep end with no preparation and all the challenges that step-parents face, is a wonderful mother who would do (and does) anything and everything for the children. My custody of the children is just a casual agreement between us, there is no court order. If something happenned to me, the default position of the authorities would be to return the children to their natural mother, and her family would want that to happen (my family would not!). I have a clause in my will that basically begs the authorities to leave the children with their step mother, which they may take note of, but that is as much as I can do. Obviously, as the children get older the risk is less and less, but when they were 6 it was a real concern about which I had no control. (they're 10 13 now). Is there some age at which children of divorced parents can have a say in where they live? Various states in the US have that, and the age varies from state to state. It's 14 *somewhere*. Don't know anything beyond that. Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Lance!
At 07:32 PM 7/31/03 -0500, Julia Thompson wrote: Ronn!Blankenship wrote: At 09:33 AM 7/31/03 -0500, Julia Thompson wrote: I have an ambivalent attitude about baseball. Trying not to get sucked into the whole Who's ahead -- the Red Sox or the Yankees? thing that I tormented myself with in college, and if I start paying too much attention to baseball, that's going to happen. I'll watch hockey, but I'm never glued to it for 3 whole periods. (I was watching it a lot more when Sammy was under a year old and still being breastfed a fair bit -- nothing like a sporting event when you're sitting there with a baby attached to your nipple.) Yes. I know that whenever I'm at the stadium, being able to watch the section composed of breast feeding mothers adds so much to the experience . . . OK, just for that, I'm going to go to a Round Rock Express game next year with the *intent* of breastfeeding one baby or the other during the game. ;) Hey, if you can get take-out from Hooters to bring back to your seat Julia but the take-outs don't include the waitresses I don't want to see anything that was taken out of a Hooters' waitress, either . . . Silicone Makes For Silly Cones Maru --Ronn! :) I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Dr. Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The Case for a Marriage Amendment to the Constitution
At 07:42 PM 7/31/03 -0500, Julia Thompson wrote: Russell Chapman wrote: Julia Thompson wrote: Just thought of a scenario not handled by this: Woman man marry Woman man have baby Woman man get divorced Woman gets custody Woman marries another man Woman is killed in an accident when child is 6 years old Who gets primary custody at *this* point? The bio-dad or the step-dad? This is something that keeps me awake at night... My ex-wife is a fruit-loop who has no concept of responsibility at any level, and can't cope with the children for more than an overnight visit every few months. My second wife, despite having been thrown in the deep end with no preparation and all the challenges that step-parents face, is a wonderful mother who would do (and does) anything and everything for the children. My custody of the children is just a casual agreement between us, there is no court order. If something happenned to me, the default position of the authorities would be to return the children to their natural mother, and her family would want that to happen (my family would not!). I have a clause in my will that basically begs the authorities to leave the children with their step mother, which they may take note of, but that is as much as I can do. Obviously, as the children get older the risk is less and less, but when they were 6 it was a real concern about which I had no control. (they're 10 13 now). Is there some age at which children of divorced parents can have a say in where they live? Various states in the US have that, and the age varies from state to state. It's 14 *somewhere*. Don't know anything beyond that. In some states, that is the age when one can get married. (Though some states have recently been changing the laws which allow that.) --Ronn! :) I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Dr. Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies
Jan Coffey wrote: It is, however, important to know that %20 of the world population is far enough to my side of the axis to be labled dyslexic. Where does this statistic come from? Jim ___ Express Yourself - Share Your Mood in Emails! Visit www.SmileyCentral.com - the happiest place on the Web. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The Case for a Marriage Amendment to the Constitution
Ronn!Blankenship wrote: At 07:42 PM 7/31/03 -0500, Julia Thompson wrote: Is there some age at which children of divorced parents can have a say in where they live? Various states in the US have that, and the age varies from state to state. It's 14 *somewhere*. Don't know anything beyond that. In some states, that is the age when one can get married. (Though some states have recently been changing the laws which allow that.) Don't you need parental permission to marry at that young an age? I think the law in New Hampshire was that a girl could be married at 13 with her parents' permission, but just going out and getting married on her own she had to be older. Not sure how much older. (And this was playground rumor when I was 12 or so, so take it with some NaCl if you are so inclined.) Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Seth Finkelstein on 16 words
In a message dated 7/30/2003 10:20:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: As is usual in the intelligence business, the British said that they can't reveal their sources so as to preserve their leads. Now what? Don't use it in the SOU. You don't insult the british by not using the information. But by the way why is it as is usual? It would seem to me in something this important the british could share their specific information. I would suspect that more often than not in situations like this the info would be shared. I would very upset to learn that we and our allies shared only conclusions not evidence. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The seven habits of highly ineffective list-subscribers
Jan Coffey wrote: --- Doug Pensinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 4) Jumps into a thread with highly opinionated and/or confrontational responses without having read most of the previous responses. Once again I am assuming from the context that you are addressing me specifically. so in response. You shouldn't assume any such thing. I most certainly did not have you in mind. If you are guilty of the above, I haven't noticed it. Doug ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The Case for a Marriage Amendment to the Constitution
At 07:51 PM 7/31/03 -0500, Julia Thompson wrote: Ronn!Blankenship wrote: At 07:42 PM 7/31/03 -0500, Julia Thompson wrote: Is there some age at which children of divorced parents can have a say in where they live? Various states in the US have that, and the age varies from state to state. It's 14 *somewhere*. Don't know anything beyond that. In some states, that is the age when one can get married. (Though some states have recently been changing the laws which allow that.) Don't you need parental permission to marry at that young an age? In most states. In some parts of Utah, though, the problem is that the parents are members of the same group as the old man who wants to take the 14-year-old as #4 or #5 . . . --Ronn! :) I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Dr. Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Harry Potter 5 (no longer spoiler free)
Bryon Daly wrote: S P O I L E R S P A C E The thing that everyone seemed to overlook about Umbridge is that she actually tried to *kill* Harry, by sending the Dementors after him. I would think this murder attempt would be treated as a much more serious crime than it was. You know, that had totally slipped my mind when we were talking about whether or not she's a real villain. Can't believe I forgot that one. Jim ___ Express Yourself - Share Your Mood in Emails! Visit www.SmileyCentral.com - the happiest place on the Web. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: fight hte evil of price discrimination
but would start with educating people (beginning in elementary school) with the hazards associated with certain lifestyle choices - and gradually making people responsible for their own folly -- we could ~ halve the chronic disease burden with lifestyle changes But that would go against the conservative ethos that people are 100% responsible for each and every thing that happens to them in their life and that no one can or should do anything about it, except to sneer at and lecture them if and when they make choices that the conservatives don't happen to agree with. Oh, and to make all of us pray to Jesus Christ even if we don't want to - conservatives are very big on that. And before any of the conservatives on this list start to sputter and huff and puff that I'm mischaracterizing them - yes. I am. Not every conservative acts like I pretend they do above. Big deal. Enough do that I don't think I'm being any more unfair than, oh, say, Ann Coulter or any of the sneering lecturing pigs on Fox News Channel. Tom Beck www.prydonians.org www.mercerjewishsingles.org I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last. - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Bulge in lake worries YNP scientists
http://www.codyenterprise.com/display/inn_news/news3.txt Beneath the serene surface of Yellowstone Lake, where death from hypothermia comes within 30 minutes, seethes a boiling underwater world. And like a pot too long on the stove, it could boil over, says U.S. Geological Survey geologist Lisa Morgan, Ph.D., of Colorado. She and others from the USGS have been studying the hottest hot spot in the 7,731-foot elevation lake, a spot which Morgan has termed an inflated plain. It lies south-southwest of Storm Point near Mary Bay, in the northern end of the lake. Morgan, representing both the USGS and Yellowstone Volcanic Observatory, is in the process of mapping the lake floor with seismic reflection images. She uses a sonar system that emits sound waves. Morgan has taken 240 million soundings in the last four years. She has found that temperatures along the inflated plain have been recorded at about 85 degrees 60 feet down, where the plain bulges up about 100 feet above the lake floor. (Park spokesman Cheryl Matthews says the lake rarely reaches more than 66 degrees at the surface by late summer, and is much colder deeper down.) The inflated plain stretches 2,100 feet - about the length of seven football fields - across. We think this is very young, something that occurred in the last few years, Morgan said. We're thinking this structure could be a precursor to an hydrothermal explosive event, Morgan said last week. But we don't think this is a volcano. If the bulge should explode, we think it would create a large crater. But such an explosion, smaller versions of which created Indian Pond, Duck Lake and Mary Bay itself, would probably heat up the water temporarily, create high waves, spew poison gasses and other materials into the lake for a time, and leave a rimmed underwater crater. Or it could do nothing. Explosive events are, of course, not new in Yellowstone. Regional volcanoes once sent forth material across much of what is now the U.S. And Mary Bay is the world's largest hydrothermal explosion crater, Morgan said. Also lurking under water west of Indian Pond is Elliott's Crater, some 2,400 feet in diameter. Powerful geologic processes contributed to the unusual shape of Yellowstone Lake, according to articles in the most recent edition of Yellowstone Science, which describes Morgan's study. One of Morgan's objectives is to understand these processes. Morgan is returning to Yellowstone in early August to further study the inflated plain, which she said showed pretty radical changes last summer. She and her USGS team will utilize a raft-like boat that resembles a high-tech Kon Tiki. It carries, among other things, a small, red robotic submarine. The ROV will dive down to the underwater structure, land on it, scrape samples of rock and sand from its surface, and put in place devices that will measure any further changes to the structure. By fall, Morgan and her team hope to prepare a danger assessment indicating how likely the plain is to explode, and if it does, what the scenario might be. At this point in her work, Morgan has outlined two possibilities for the plain: a.. It could do nothing, and freeze in time, becoming dormant. a.. It could explode, making a large crater a couple of thousand feet in diameter. If the dome blows, 10-foot waves could wash the lake shore, rocks and pieces of lake floor could be tossed into the air, and chemicals containing toxic materials could be discharged into the lake. There would be lots of water, Morgan said. Not the blue serenity of the present lake surface, but roiling, spewed-out hot water. But we don't think this is a volcano, Morgan said last week. Still, that possibility is being considered. She said what is causing the bulge is likely either carbon dioxide gas or steam. We're trying to put monitoring equipment on the structure to see changes over time. We have no evidence there's any volcanic component to the bulging dome, she added. xponent Thar She Blows Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
DNA extractable from fingerprints
http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20030730-040600-4102r Even if the only evidence forensic analysts can pull from a crime scene is a fingerprint smudged beyond recognition, a new technique developed by Canadian scientists soon could harvest enough DNA from the print to produce a genetic identity. The novel system can extract DNA in only 15 minutes, even if a print has been stored for a year. Scientists expect the invention to help crime-fighters solve mysteries, and already are in talks with the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. In addition, researchers predict the technology could be at least twice as cheap as existing DNA collection methods. If you wanted to use blood as a source of DNA, you have fear of contamination, people who don't want to give it, storage issues, and you have to sign a lot of paperwork to get it, research scientist Maria Viaznikova of the Ottawa University Heart Institute in Canada told United Press International. We can now have DNA reliably and simply with our method. Viaznikova said her team's method consistently yields 10 billionths of a gram of DNA, on average, from a single fingerprint. The findings were revealed at the American Society for Microbiology's nanotechnology conference in New York earlier this month. Although 10 nanograms might not sound like much, for DNA analysis, even 0.1 nanogram is enough, Viaznikova said. Scientists try not to use less than 5 to 10 nanograms, so this is fine. She said forensic scientists have known for about five years that fingerprints contain DNA. However, commonly used extraction techniques need several hours or even days of lab work. We can do it in 15 minutes, she added. The new extraction technique is under patent. When compared with existing methods, it is at least as twice less expensive, maybe more, Viaznikova said. The most immediate application such a technique could find is with forensics, said molecular biologist Margaret Wallace of John Jay College in New York and one-time DNA analyst for the city's chief medical examiner's office. It could save a lot of time, particularly given we have this huge backlog on DNA that needs to be analyzed, Wallace told UPI. There are hundreds of thousands of samples that need to be looked at now. Wallace still wants to know how well the process works on fingerprints gleaned from a variety of surfaces and kept in a variety of temperature and humidity conditions. It's also possible that some people leave more DNA in their prints than others, she said. Because the method is so simple and cheap, with far less overhead required than needle-based DNA sampling, experts say this could help make DNA gathering a commonplace activity -- thereby also raising privacy issues. DNA is unique, extremely revealing about you and your family members, privacy specialist Jay Stanley of the American Civil Liberties Union in Washington, D.C., told UPI. This advance really highlights the need for laws to protect the privacy in the face of these kinds of technologies. Stanley said because genetics experts have told him it inevitably will become easier to test DNA, we need legal frameworks to figure out how to protect privacy in the face of this. For example, silicone chips from biophysicist Stephen Quake's lab at the California Institute of Technology, in Pasadena, could in the next 10 years sequence an entire person's genetic code cheaply and in a few days, he noted. I don't think anybody objects to samples from crime scenes. I think using DNA to catch murderers is a fine thing, Stanley said. But we need to be cognizant of greater implications. We're going to be facing issues about how to keep DNA private from lawyers, governments, insurance companies, even nosy neighbors. It raises issues of employment discrimination, because employers have a natural incentive to hire healthy workers, and always have an incentive to discriminate against you by DNA, as long as health insurance is provided by the workplace. He added: Or think about schoolchildren checking out each other's genetic profiles, or having profiles posted on the Internet. The fact is, there are heavy incentives to collect this information. Electronic Frontier Foundation staff technologist Dan Moniz said he thinks the technique could be helpful to nab crooks, but he wonders about further implications in law. People already have fingerprints taken of them. Will it just become part of the standard booking procedure? Will you be notified that they're taking DNA? Can you refuse to give fingerprints if you don't want DNA taken? he asked. Moniz told UPI there are four directions he would like to see the question of DNA collection from prints go. First, I want to know who's using this technology. I want to be notified right up front, at the police department, hospital, HMO, anything. No surreptitious extraction, he said. I should have a right of refusal and I should receive no special treatment if I do refuse it, he continued. Finally, I should have a
Re: fight hte evil of price discrimination
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And before any of the conservatives on this list start to sputter and huff and puff that I'm mischaracterizing them - yes. I am. Not every conservative acts like I pretend they do above. Big deal. Enough do that I don't think I'm being any more unfair than, oh, say, Ann Coulter or any of the sneering lecturing pigs on Fox News Channel. Hey! Some of them's *hogs*, not *pigs*! ;) Seriously, the ones that get the most attention seem to be more extreme one way or another. That's probably true for any group that gets stereotyped. Except maybe Poles. I've never met a Pole anywhere close to being as stupid as all the jokes imply. (Where'd they get that reputation, anyway?) Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: fight hte evil of price discrimination
Seriously, the ones that get the most attention seem to be more extreme one way or another. That's probably true for any group that gets stereotyped. Except maybe Poles. I've never met a Pole anywhere close to being as stupid as all the jokes imply. (Where'd they get that reputation, anyway?) Except, when an extreme right-winger goes ballistic, nobody but a few dumb liberals notice. When an extreme leftist mouths off, the right wing media stooges spew it all over the place like this is representative of all mainstream moderate liberals and progressives. Rush Limbaugh is notorious for taking some deranged wacko feminist and pretending that she speaks for all feminists everywhere everywhen. And nobody ever calls him or them on this disgusting practice. As for the Polish reputation for stupidity - I have no clue whence it originates. Tom Beck www.prydonians.org www.mercerjewishsingles.org I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last. - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The Case for a Marriage Ammendment to the Constitution
Julia Thompson wrote: Is there some age at which children of divorced parents can have a say in where they live? Various states in the US have that, and the age varies from state to state. It's 14 *somewhere*. Don't know anything beyond that. The courts in most Australian states will listen to children's preferences, but they don't get to make the choice. Same would apply to my kids if something happenned to me - they're deemed old enough to know what they want, but not old enough to know what's best for them (which is probably a fair attitude). Cheers Russell C. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ronn!Blankenship Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 7:37 PM To: Killer Bs Discussion Subject: Re: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies At 03:02 PM 7/31/03 -0400, Jon Gabriel wrote: From: William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 19:31:30 +0100 On Thursday, July 31, 2003, at 06:03 pm, Jon Gabriel wrote: I regularly skip threads completely here I find it impossible to keep up. (I'm now 591 posts behind.) I'm sure that others do the same. I'm 1115 behind :) I don't know whether to admit defeat or not... Never give up! Never surrender! (Kudos if you can name the reference.) ;-) Extra points for identifying the writer's religion. Mine, William Goodall's or David Howard's? Jon Le Blog: http://zarq.livejournal.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: fight hte evil of price discrimination
At 09:38 PM 7/31/2003 -0400, you wrote: Seriously, the ones that get the most attention seem to be more extreme one way or another. That's probably true for any group that gets stereotyped. Except maybe Poles. I've never met a Pole anywhere close to being as stupid as all the jokes imply. (Where'd they get that reputation, anyway?) Except, when an extreme right-winger goes ballistic, nobody but a few dumb liberals notice. When an extreme leftist mouths off, the right wing media stooges spew it all over the place like this is representative of all mainstream moderate liberals and progressives. Rush Limbaugh is notorious for taking some deranged wacko feminist and pretending that she speaks for all feminists everywhere everywhen. And nobody ever calls him or them on this disgusting practice. As for the Polish reputation for stupidity - I have no clue whence it originates. Tom Beck Except, when a right winger makes an innocuous statement and the left wing media huffs and puffs until they blow the issue up into whatever slight they feel gets them the best press. Kevin T. - VRWC ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Salt on your wounds
(And this was playground rumor when I was 12 or so, so take it with some NaCl if you are so inclined.) Julia I use KCl. Don't know if it's helping, I still get leg cramps. Kevin T. - VRWC ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: fight hte evil of price discrimination
Except, when a right winger makes an innocuous statement and the left wing media huffs and puffs until they blow the issue up into whatever slight they feel gets them the best press. So liberals aren't perfect. Never said they are. Although I bet some of the statements you characterize as innocuous are actually more pernicious than you'd like to admit. Tom Beck www.prydonians.org www.mercerjewishsingles.org I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last. - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Salt on your wounds
Kevin Tarr wrote: (And this was playground rumor when I was 12 or so, so take it with some NaCl if you are so inclined.) Julia I use KCl. Don't know if it's helping, I still get leg cramps. I don't know if this has anything to do with it, but I stopped getting leg cramps when I upped my calcium consumption. (I'm supposed to get at least 180% of the US recommended daily allowance of calcium each day.) Of course, I'm taking a lot of it in the form of calcium-fortified orange juice, and orange juice also has a decent amount of potassium, so that might have more to do with it. Maybe it's both. I've been very careful about how I stretch -- if I point my toes when I stretch, I'm a lot more likely to have my calves cramp. I've trained myself to point my heel when I stretch my legs, instead. That's helped a fair bit. I'm supposed to be at higher risk of leg cramps with twins, but I've had significantly fewer with this pregnancy than I did when I was pregnant with Sammy. Of course, that's made up for by my feeling more miserable in other ways. :P Julia Beached Whale Maru ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The Case for a Marriage Ammendment to the Constitution
This is something that keeps me awake at night... My ex-wife is a fruit-loop who has no concept of responsibility at any level, and can't cope with the children for more than an overnight visit every few months. My second wife, despite having been thrown in the deep end with no preparation and all the challenges that step-parents face, is a wonderful mother who would do (and does) anything and everything for the children. My custody of the children is just a casual agreement between us, there is no court order. If something happenned to me, the default position of the authorities would be to return the children to their natural mother, and her family would want that to happen (my family would not!). I have a clause in my will that basically begs the authorities to leave the children with their step mother, which they may take note of, but that is as much as I can do. Obviously, as the children get older the risk is less and less, but when they were 6 it was a real concern about which I had no control. (they're 10 13 now). Cheers Russell C. I am 100% not trying to say anything bad. I am only pointing this out because I know two people who went through this, separate cases. You say, the custody of the children is just a casual agreement; then say you put a statement in your will, that is as much as you can do. Aren't those two conflicting statements? Now please, even in America I do not know what the rights of a step parent are, but I'm assuming if you did have more that a casual agreement, and then something happened to you, your now wife would get much more consideration. Again, not trying to offend. There are a million reasons that things are they way they are, and would continue. But I just want others to always think realistically about the future. Not saying you don't! Realistically is a bad word, but can't think how to edit it. It's time for bed. This isn't the same thing, but last year there was an organized group charity ride. About two miles from the end, one of the riders went down on a bridge. He broke his arm, but at first he was out cold. No one knew who he was, he had no info on him. They were able to use his rider number to call the ride sponsors, find out who he was, but he was already on the way to the hospital before they knew his name, who to contact. Luckily he had no medical problems, not like they would give penicillin for a broken arm and concussion, but it shows how important it is to think about the future. Kevin T. - VRWC As the soapbox is yanked from underneath me ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The Case for a Marriage Amendment to the Constitution
Ronn!Blankenship wrote: One factor which might (or might should -- who knows what the courts would do) have some bearing is what the child's age was when the divorce occurred. If the child was very young at the time of the divorce, the only Dad s/he may have ever known is the stepfather. OTOH, if the child was 5 years and 11 months old when the divorce became final and the mom remarried . . . I've heard of far too many child custody cases where the judge took a child away from her adoptive parents, the only parents she remembered, and gave her to a biological parent who just showed up one day. It's not *exactly* the same scenario, but I doubt a step-parent has much more pull than an adoptive parent. __ Steve Sloan . Huntsville, Alabama = [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brin-L list pages .. http://www.brin-l.org Chmeee's 3D Objects http://www.sloan3d.com/chmeee 3D and Drawing Galleries .. http://www.sloansteady.com Software Science Fiction, Science, and Computer Links Science fiction scans . http://www.sloan3d.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies
Jan Coffey wrote: The very act of ridiculing, or even admiting to being able to recognize misspellings suggests that the person is from the %80 of the population that is more likely to be unremarkable. So, Ritu, my sincerist appologies. *lol* Since you phrase this so charmingly, I accept the same with my thanks. :) Seriously though, I didn't know you were dyslexic and I was merely trying to clarify if the word was a typo or if you were talking about else altogether. I meant neither ridicule nor attack and I am sorry that my mail made you feel that way. Ritu ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies
Jan Coffey wrote: You know, Ritu, if you are trying to get under my skin, you are doing a damb good job of it. Should we start discussing your own personal flaws? Do you really want to make it persoanl? becouse we can do that. Go ahead and try me. I am not quite sure how to respond to this. Given the context, I thought you meant 'Indian' [papers here are full off the out-sourcing issues and the way people are reacting], but I might as well have been mistaken. So I asked for a clarification. Is that wrong? Ritu PS - I haven't received any mails from the list since 7 am Thursday morning and just found this mail and lots of others at the archives. I'd be grateful if Nich or Julia could tell me if I have been unsubbed or the problem lies with my ISP/something else. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The Case for a Marriage Amendment to the Constitution
Steve Sloan II wrote: It's not *exactly* the same scenario, but I doubt a step-parent has much more pull than an adoptive parent. Less - an adoption creates a legal relationship between the parent and the child, and diminishes (remember when it used to sever?) the legal relationship between the child and the natural parent. A step-parent has no legal relationship with the child in the absence of the spouse that brought them together, and no weakening of the legal rights of the natural parent... Cheers Russell C. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The seven habits of highly ineffective societies
--- Chad Cooper [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This paper was written 5 years ago The Seven Factors These key failure factors are: Restrictions on the free flow of information. The subjugation of women. Inability to accept responsibility for individual or collective failure. The extended family or clan as the basic unit of social organization. Domination by a restrictive religion. A low valuation of education. Low prestige assigned to work. http://denbeste.nu/external/Peters01.html The best quote IMHO: The failure is greater where the avoidance of responsibility is greater. In the Middle East and Southwest Asia, oil money has masked cultural, social, technical, and structural failure for decades. While the military failure of the regional states has been obvious, consistent, and undeniable, the locals sense--even when they do not fully understand--their noncompetitive status in other spheres as well. It is hateful and disorienting to them. Only the twin blessings of Israel and the United States, upon whom Arabs and Persians can blame even their most egregious ineptitudes, enable a fly-specked pretense of cultural viability. Agreed with many points, disagreed with several -- good read. I especially agreed with: The more dogmatic and exclusive the religion, the less it is able to deal with the information age, in which multiple truths may exist simultaneously, and in which all that cannot be proven empirically is inherently under assault. We live in a time of immense psychological dislocation--when man craves spiritual certainty even more than usual. Yet our age is also one in which the sheltering dogma cripples individuals and states alike. The price of competitiveness is the courage to be uncertain--not an absence of belief, but a synthetic capability that can at once accommodate belief and its contradictions... Debbi VFP Flexibility __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The Case for a Marriage Ammendment to the Constitution
Kevin Tarr wrote: I am 100% not trying to say anything bad. I am only pointing this out because I know two people who went through this, separate cases. You say, the custody of the children is just a casual agreement; then say you put a statement in your will, that is as much as you can do. Aren't those two conflicting statements? Not really, we separated and shared custody for a short time, but I wanted the kids, she didn't care, and the kids wanted to live with me, so it sort of just happened. I later remarried, and Linda has been wonderful with them, but I have never resolved the custody thing legally. When we got married, we made new wills, as everyone should. I was shocked to hear from my solicitor that I had no way of ensuring that the children end up with Linda, other than to express my wishes in writing in the hope that the courts would consider my request post mortem. The only way I could firm this up would be to actually sue for custody, then try and get them adopted by Linda, but it seems to me that any mother - even one who hasn't wanted much to do with her children - is going to react badly to someone suggesting that they are not going to be her kids anymore, and the fight would be on. I'm much happier to keep things rolling along the way they are, where she sees them whenever she wants which is not very often (she lives in another state with a new partner). It's only casual in the sense that there is no court order specifying who has custody, but it has been permanent for about 6 years now. (Which is why I worry less about Julia's hypothetical now, though Steve's post has made me nervous all over again - :-) thanks! ) Cheers Russell C. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: fight hte evil of price discrimination
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As for the Polish reputation for stupidity - I have no clue whence it originates. It's certainly not international - we never have Pole/Polack/Polish jokes, but all the same jokes refer to Irish folk. Maybe somewhere in the world a bunch of friends are sitting around talking about the Aussie terrorist burning his lips blowing up the bus, or sinking an Aussie submarine by knocking on the door... Cheers Russell C. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Life and Death
--- Doug Pensinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Three weeks ago, for my birthday, my wife and kids got me a little yellow sided conure (a small, new world parrot). At about 12 weeks old she isn't quite full grown yet. She was hand raised, and is affectionate, mischievous, curious, and altogether endearing... But also as I write, my 13 year old dog Lucky lies in a cage at the Vet hospital, breathing hard from the fluid collected in her lungs, barely able to stand or walk, and low in spirit... She's been such a good dog - smart, affectionate, playful... So new life and the awful specter of death. Does one offset the other? I have to believe so, but the loss always leaves at least a little scar on the heart...I still miss each of the animal companions who shared their too-short lives with me. Debbi __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Seth Finkelstein on 16 words
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Don't use it in the SOU. You don't insult the british by not using the information. But by the way why is it as is usual? It would seem to me in something this important the british could share their specific information. I would suspect that more often than not in situations like this the info would be shared. I would very upset to learn that we and our allies shared only conclusions not evidence. The British have stated that their source (informed speculation is French intelligence, but no one knows for sure) refused them permission to share the evidence, only the conclusions. This is very ordinary in the intelligence world, where sources and methods are prized above all things. = Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] Freedom is not free http://www.mukunda.blogspot.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
