Re: [Elecraft] K3+KPA500+KAT500 RFI Revisited

[Jack Brindle via Elecraft]

Please describe the aux cables you have in use between the equipment. It is 
highly unusual for the BCD lines to change state during transmission, on any 
other time without actually changing the band on the K3.
If you are using very long Aux cables, or have other equipment connected to the 
cable (that uses the Band lines), it could account for issues. There is at 
least one band decoder kit on the market that uses
poorly designed receivers that will adversely affect the band lines in a K3 or 
K4 system to the point that the KPA receives incorrect band indication.

Are you directly monitoring the band lines with an external indicator? If so, 
please describe the indicator.
The KPA _will_ change bands due to a signal on another band (such as a 
harmonic). We have not seen that to this point with K3 or K4, but it is 
certainly possible. Not that the RF signal count always overrides the band 
signals - it counts the strongest signal at its input.

This situation may be due to RFI, but I am suspecting something else at 
present, such as very long AuxBus cables or an issue in the system. Any further 
info you can provide would be very helpful - is there another transmitter near 
by, or anything else that may be injecting alternate signals into the amplifier 
(usually on the xcvr input side, but if strong enough it could come in through 
the antenna). Note that a very strong signal coming into the antenna port would 
also affect the SWR calculations and display.

Something is going on, but it may surprise you when you discover it.

73,
Jack, W6FB


> On Jan 12, 2024, at 2:18 PM, Jeff Wandling  wrote:
> 
> Dear Elecraft aficionados:
> 
> The symptom is KPA switching bands during Tx.
> 
> Seems like a while ago I was troubleshooting the RFI problem between the 
> equipment.
> 
> K3 + KPA500 + KAT500
> 
> Using the "enhanced" configuration where serial cable between the K3 to KAT 
> to KPA assisted in communicating band changes as well as key-down event and 
> so on.
> 
> I own two KPA-500's. Both are less than 6mo old.
> 
> Let me refer to them as KPA-1 and KPA-2. KPA-1 is in the hands of Elecraft 
> for repair. It worked flawlessly (until needing repair), but the RFI issue I 
> will write about did not exist when that KPA-1 was in the chain.
> 
> KPA-2 was purchased in December as a backup. Since putting KPA-2 in-line, the 
> RFI problems I will describe have gone unresolved.
> 
> Scenario is with KPA-2 in-line.
> 
> Even running tiny power (< 10W, <15 W) I can routinely and 100% reproduce the 
> problem where the BCD data in the AUX line that carries the information about 
> which band the KPA should be set on will change during Tx.
> 
> For example I can put KAT into MAN, put KPA in bypass. Tune the antenna via 
> K3 and witness the search resolve to a 1:1 on the SWR. That sometimes will 
> trigger the effect -- I can see in the KPA, even in bypass that the band the 
> KPA is set on is changed from the band the K3 is set on. Even more insidious 
> is that if the KPA winds up on a different band after the tune (or after 
> "VVV" CW testing after tune), that pressing the band button on the KPA to 
> bring it back does not bring the KPA back to the right band. It is as if the 
> KPA has two states of band-awareness.. The awareness of the band displayed in 
> the LCD and the band that the input is set for.
> 
> Here's an example:
> K3 on 40m
> Tune per usual (KAT MANUAL, KPA Bypass)
> KPA remains on 40m.
> K3 power output 14W
> Then put the KPA into Operate
> Tap "VVV" out on the key.
> Witness the KPA operate but then switch band to 30m or 17m or 20m, etc.. (not 
> expected)
> Then on the KPA tap (Band) 7 (for the 40m band) and nothing happens (not 
> expected)
> Tap on the KPA 14 then the whole chain switches to 20m (expected)
> 
> Suppose the TUNE did not yield a band-switch during Tx, repeating the test 
> but this time putting the KPA into Operate after the tune is sure-fire going 
> to cause the bandswitch.
> 
> (I configured the KPA to go to Bypass in the event of a band-change event in 
> order to have some sense of protection while the key-down test Tx occurs).
> 
> That's the scenario where after Tx the KPA is out of sync with the K3. 
> Whether or not the KPA is attempting to frequency-count is not evident, the 
> KPA:RADIO setting is "K3" which means leverage the BCD data from the K3 
> vis-a-vis the KAT path.
> 
> I can replicate this band-inconsistency at will. I don't think I can safely 
> operate the equipment if the BCD encoded band data is fluctuating during Tx. 
> What would happen if I switched bands (N1MM) and hit the keyer and the KPA 
> got confused on the last Tx? Magic smoke I imagine.
> 
> Only happened with KPA-2 not KPA-1. But I'm wondering if KPA-1 suffered a 
> catastrophe caused by this scenario and I didn't notice the clicking 
> band-switch because I had not expected it to switch bands during Tx.
> 
> What have I done to remedy? I think I've tried everything but obviously I 
> 

Re: [Elecraft] K3+KPA500+KAT500 RFI Revisited

[Jim Brown]

On 1/12/2024 12:18 PM, Jeff Wandling wrote:

Seems like a while ago I was troubleshooting the RFI problem between the 
equipment.


Is everything in your home and your station properly bonded and grounded?
Is every chassis on your operating desk bonded together?
Is the operating desk common point bonded to all the grounds in your home?
http://k9yc.com/GroundingAndAudio.pdf
Are there arrestors on all of your antennas, and are they bonded to the 
other grounds?
Are there serious ferrite chokes at the feedpoint of every antenna? A 
serious ferrite choke is one of these.

http://k9yc.com/2018Cookbook.pdf
If you're using any form of end-fed antenna, including a vertical, does 
it have radials or a counterpoise?


There's one other mechanism that I'm aware of, having been a beta tester 
for KA500 years ago. When running two radios with amps and tuners, their 
frequency-detecting circuitry for station #1 while in receive can get 
enough RF from station #2 transmitting to switch to station #2's band. 
This depends primarily on how close the antennas for the two stations 
are to each other and how much power we're running. This is very old 
info, from the early days of KAT500, and may have been minimized by 
later versions of firmware.


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] K3+KPA500+KAT500 RFI Revisited

[Walter Underwood]

Before replacing cables or adding ferrites, I would make sure that all the 
chassis are bonded together with short runs of heavy gauge wire. Differences in 
ground potentials between equipment can make a mess of things.

For more info, get the book on grounding and bonding from the ARRL.

https://www.arrl.org/grounding-and-bonding-for-the-amateur

wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

> On Jan 12, 2024, at 12:18 PM, Jeff Wandling  wrote:
> 
> Dear Elecraft aficionados:
> 
> The symptom is KPA switching bands during Tx.
> 
> Seems like a while ago I was troubleshooting the RFI problem between the 
> equipment.
> 
> K3 + KPA500 + KAT500
> 
> Using the "enhanced" configuration where serial cable between the K3 to KAT 
> to KPA assisted in communicating band changes as well as key-down event and 
> so on.
> 
> I own two KPA-500's. Both are less than 6mo old.
> 
> Let me refer to them as KPA-1 and KPA-2. KPA-1 is in the hands of Elecraft 
> for repair. It worked flawlessly (until needing repair), but the RFI issue I 
> will write about did not exist when that KPA-1 was in the chain.
> 
> KPA-2 was purchased in December as a backup. Since putting KPA-2 in-line, the 
> RFI problems I will describe have gone unresolved.
> 
> Scenario is with KPA-2 in-line.
> 
> Even running tiny power (< 10W, <15 W) I can routinely and 100% reproduce the 
> problem where the BCD data in the AUX line that carries the information about 
> which band the KPA should be set on will change during Tx.
> 
> For example I can put KAT into MAN, put KPA in bypass. Tune the antenna via 
> K3 and witness the search resolve to a 1:1 on the SWR. That sometimes will 
> trigger the effect -- I can see in the KPA, even in bypass that the band the 
> KPA is set on is changed from the band the K3 is set on. Even more insidious 
> is that if the KPA winds up on a different band after the tune (or after 
> "VVV" CW testing after tune), that pressing the band button on the KPA to 
> bring it back does not bring the KPA back to the right band. It is as if the 
> KPA has two states of band-awareness.. The awareness of the band displayed in 
> the LCD and the band that the input is set for.
> 
> Here's an example:
> K3 on 40m
> Tune per usual (KAT MANUAL, KPA Bypass)
> KPA remains on 40m.
> K3 power output 14W
> Then put the KPA into Operate
> Tap "VVV" out on the key.
> Witness the KPA operate but then switch band to 30m or 17m or 20m, etc.. (not 
> expected)
> Then on the KPA tap (Band) 7 (for the 40m band) and nothing happens (not 
> expected)
> Tap on the KPA 14 then the whole chain switches to 20m (expected)
> 
> Suppose the TUNE did not yield a band-switch during Tx, repeating the test 
> but this time putting the KPA into Operate after the tune is sure-fire going 
> to cause the bandswitch.
> 
> (I configured the KPA to go to Bypass in the event of a band-change event in 
> order to have some sense of protection while the key-down test Tx occurs).
> 
> That's the scenario where after Tx the KPA is out of sync with the K3. 
> Whether or not the KPA is attempting to frequency-count is not evident, the 
> KPA:RADIO setting is "K3" which means leverage the BCD data from the K3 
> vis-a-vis the KAT path.
> 
> I can replicate this band-inconsistency at will. I don't think I can safely 
> operate the equipment if the BCD encoded band data is fluctuating during Tx. 
> What would happen if I switched bands (N1MM) and hit the keyer and the KPA 
> got confused on the last Tx? Magic smoke I imagine.
> 
> Only happened with KPA-2 not KPA-1. But I'm wondering if KPA-1 suffered a 
> catastrophe caused by this scenario and I didn't notice the clicking 
> band-switch because I had not expected it to switch bands during Tx.
> 
> What have I done to remedy? I think I've tried everything but obviously I 
> have a gap -- otherwise I'd have solved this problem.
> 
> - New coax between everything.
> - Shorter or longer coax, different coax (RG-213, 8X, LMR-240, etc..)
> - Tighter loops (6 -8") when there is excess coax or lazy big loops where 
> there is excess coax.
> - New connectors/adapters (Yes, Amphenol)
> - Re-route coax different ways. Avoid this, that and the other, etc.. 
> Permutations of routing.
> - Move and adjust placement of equipment. KAT near the KPA, KAT away from the 
> KPA, both near or away from the K3, etc..
> - Chokes between things. K3 to KPA, KPA to KAT, KAT to antenna system
> - Non-bleeding chokes, bleeding chokes.
> - Ferrite on serial cables, more ferrite, insane amounts of ferrite, or zero 
> ferrite
> - Move the position of serial cables above, below, up, down, left, right.
> 
> I haven't got to the point of putting little tangerines on altars and burning 
> incense. I'm trying to keep a positive mood while part of me wants to take up 
> the art of Bonsai and raking the sand.
> 
> Obviously RFI is a likely culprit, but I'll be damned if I can figure out 
> where it is -- or rather why it would be 

[Elecraft] K3+KPA500+KAT500 RFI Revisited

[Jeff Wandling]

Dear Elecraft aficionados:

The symptom is KPA switching bands during Tx.

Seems like a while ago I was troubleshooting the RFI problem between the 
equipment.

K3 + KPA500 + KAT500

Using the "enhanced" configuration where serial cable between the K3 to KAT to 
KPA assisted in communicating band changes as well as key-down event and so on.

I own two KPA-500's. Both are less than 6mo old.

Let me refer to them as KPA-1 and KPA-2. KPA-1 is in the hands of Elecraft for 
repair. It worked flawlessly (until needing repair), but the RFI issue I will 
write about did not exist when that KPA-1 was in the chain.

KPA-2 was purchased in December as a backup. Since putting KPA-2 in-line, the 
RFI problems I will describe have gone unresolved.

Scenario is with KPA-2 in-line.

Even running tiny power (< 10W, <15 W) I can routinely and 100% reproduce the 
problem where the BCD data in the AUX line that carries the information about 
which band the KPA should be set on will change during Tx.

For example I can put KAT into MAN, put KPA in bypass. Tune the antenna via K3 
and witness the search resolve to a 1:1 on the SWR. That sometimes will trigger 
the effect -- I can see in the KPA, even in bypass that the band the KPA is set 
on is changed from the band the K3 is set on. Even more insidious is that if 
the KPA winds up on a different band after the tune (or after "VVV" CW testing 
after tune), that pressing the band button on the KPA to bring it back does not 
bring the KPA back to the right band. It is as if the KPA has two states of 
band-awareness.. The awareness of the band displayed in the LCD and the band 
that the input is set for.

Here's an example:
K3 on 40m
Tune per usual (KAT MANUAL, KPA Bypass)
KPA remains on 40m.
K3 power output 14W
Then put the KPA into Operate
Tap "VVV" out on the key.
Witness the KPA operate but then switch band to 30m or 17m or 20m, etc.. (not 
expected)
Then on the KPA tap (Band) 7 (for the 40m band) and nothing happens (not 
expected)
Tap on the KPA 14 then the whole chain switches to 20m (expected)

Suppose the TUNE did not yield a band-switch during Tx, repeating the test but 
this time putting the KPA into Operate after the tune is sure-fire going to 
cause the bandswitch.

(I configured the KPA to go to Bypass in the event of a band-change event in 
order to have some sense of protection while the key-down test Tx occurs).

That's the scenario where after Tx the KPA is out of sync with the K3. Whether 
or not the KPA is attempting to frequency-count is not evident, the KPA:RADIO 
setting is "K3" which means leverage the BCD data from the K3 vis-a-vis the KAT 
path.

I can replicate this band-inconsistency at will. I don't think I can safely 
operate the equipment if the BCD encoded band data is fluctuating during Tx. 
What would happen if I switched bands (N1MM) and hit the keyer and the KPA got 
confused on the last Tx? Magic smoke I imagine.

Only happened with KPA-2 not KPA-1. But I'm wondering if KPA-1 suffered a 
catastrophe caused by this scenario and I didn't notice the clicking 
band-switch because I had not expected it to switch bands during Tx.

What have I done to remedy? I think I've tried everything but obviously I have 
a gap -- otherwise I'd have solved this problem.

- New coax between everything.
- Shorter or longer coax, different coax (RG-213, 8X, LMR-240, etc..)
- Tighter loops (6 -8") when there is excess coax or lazy big loops where there 
is excess coax.
- New connectors/adapters (Yes, Amphenol)
- Re-route coax different ways. Avoid this, that and the other, etc.. 
Permutations of routing.
- Move and adjust placement of equipment. KAT near the KPA, KAT away from the 
KPA, both near or away from the K3, etc..
- Chokes between things. K3 to KPA, KPA to KAT, KAT to antenna system
- Non-bleeding chokes, bleeding chokes.
- Ferrite on serial cables, more ferrite, insane amounts of ferrite, or zero 
ferrite
- Move the position of serial cables above, below, up, down, left, right.

I haven't got to the point of putting little tangerines on altars and burning 
incense. I'm trying to keep a positive mood while part of me wants to take up 
the art of Bonsai and raking the sand.

Obviously RFI is a likely culprit, but I'll be damned if I can figure out where 
it is -- or rather why it would be -- affecting this given all of the 
mitigations attempted.

But I'm always a student and looking for things that were/are not obvious at 
first.

I'm almost to the point where I will take away the "enhanced" mode serial data 
path between the equipment and rely on the analog key-line between them and RF 
frequency-counter capabilities so that the KAT and the KPA are on the right 
band when I key-down. I just need to review the docs to make sure I have the 
KPA and the KAT setup to go "analog" rather than "KPA:RADIO = K3" mode.

But the 'enhanced' mode is much more preferred since it is a K-line.

Thoughts and suggestions welcome. Ping directly if you wish.

Thanks!

Jeff

[Elecraft] K3/P3/KAT500/KPA1500 Items For Sale

[ockmrzr]

I upgraded of my two K-Line's recently and have some left over items

 

1x - KXV3A Transverter Interface

4x - KSYN3 synthesizer module

2x - E980297, RJ-45 to DE-9S (KIO3B RS232) Cable

1x - KXUSB Cable (w/ KAT500 power cord)

1x - E850824, KPA1500 PS Min Load Kit

 

If interested, let me know via direct email, n...@arrl.net
 

 

"Let's Make a Deal"

 

73 de Bruce, N7TY

Yuma, AZ

www.qsl.net/n7ty  

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Re: [Elecraft] K3, KPA500, KAT500 and 2M brick amp keying

[Joel Hallas]

Mike,

I have a K3/KPA-500/KAT-500 and also have an amplifier following the
internal 2-meter transverter. Rather than a non-linear "brick," I have the
80/100 W linear amplifier described in the QST article by W6PQL (May 2013 -
Build a Linear 2 Meter 80 W All Mode Amplifier), but the issues are the
same. 

My solution is to tie the key lines in parallel and turn off the power to
the one I am not using. If I forget, they both key, but nothing happens to
the one without drive, as Don notes. I have been doing this for some years
without issue. 

Joel Hallas, W1ZR 
--

Message: 23
Date: Wed, 29 May 2019 10:32:19 -0400
From: Don Wilhelm 
To: Mike Sanders , Elecraft Reflector

Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3, KPA500, KAT500 and 2M brick amp keying
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

Mike,

The real answer to your question is - do you have a problem with the 
KPA500 and your 2M brick amplifier being keyed at the same time?
There should be no RF input to the KPA500 when on 2M, and when on HF+6M 
there should be no RF input to your 2M amplifier.

So, are you OK with keying both amplifiers all the time no matter which 
band is selected?  If so, then just connect the KEYOUT line to your 2M 
amp and make no changes to the connection to the KAT500/KPA500.

OTOH, if you do not wish to key both amplifiers all the time, you will 
need to use the Keyline interrupter and cable the KeyOut from the K3 to 
some sort of switching arrangement (could be manual or automated through 
a band decoding device) so the K3 KEYOUT line is routed to the 2M amp 
when 2M is selected and to the KAT500/KPA500 when 2M is NOT selected.

The decision depends on your desires.

Do NOT use both the AUX cable without the keyline interrupter and the 
RCA keyline connections to the KAT500/KPA500 - strange things can occur.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 5/29/2019 9:10 AM, Mike Sanders wrote:
> I have a K3 with built in 2M transverter. The K3 drives the KPA500 and 
> KAT500 with the KPAK3AUX. Everything works
> 
> fine. I do not have the key line interrupter installed. Reading notes 5 
> and 6 on the KPAK3AUX I am a bit confused.
> 
> I want to key a 2M brick amplifier with the key out line on the K3. Can 
> this be done without the key line interrupter in place?
> 
> Or is the interrupter necessary to do this.


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End of Elecraft Digest, Vol 181, Issue 48
*


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Re: [Elecraft] K3, KPA500, KAT500 and 2M brick amp keying

[Don Wilhelm]

Mike,

The real answer to your question is - do you have a problem with the 
KPA500 and your 2M brick amplifier being keyed at the same time?
There should be no RF input to the KPA500 when on 2M, and when on HF+6M 
there should be no RF input to your 2M amplifier.


So, are you OK with keying both amplifiers all the time no matter which 
band is selected?  If so, then just connect the KEYOUT line to your 2M 
amp and make no changes to the connection to the KAT500/KPA500.


OTOH, if you do not wish to key both amplifiers all the time, you will 
need to use the Keyline interrupter and cable the KeyOut from the K3 to 
some sort of switching arrangement (could be manual or automated through 
a band decoding device) so the K3 KEYOUT line is routed to the 2M amp 
when 2M is selected and to the KAT500/KPA500 when 2M is NOT selected.


The decision depends on your desires.

Do NOT use both the AUX cable without the keyline interrupter and the 
RCA keyline connections to the KAT500/KPA500 - strange things can occur.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 5/29/2019 9:10 AM, Mike Sanders wrote:
I have a K3 with built in 2M transverter. The K3 drives the KPA500 and 
KAT500 with the KPAK3AUX. Everything works


fine. I do not have the key line interrupter installed. Reading notes 5 
and 6 on the KPAK3AUX I am a bit confused.


I want to key a 2M brick amplifier with the key out line on the K3. Can 
this be done without the key line interrupter in place?


Or is the interrupter necessary to do this.

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Re: [Elecraft] K3, KPA500, KAT500 and 2M brick amp keying

[Jim Rhodes]

I don't have room to set it all up right now, but I have done that in the
past. Just left the KPA500 & KAT500 unpowered. Also with an external 430
transverter and amp.

Jim Rhodes
K0XU

On Wed, May 29, 2019, 08:10 Mike Sanders  wrote:

> I have a K3 with built in 2M transverter. The K3 drives the KPA500 and
> KAT500 with the KPAK3AUX. Everything works
>
> fine. I do not have the key line interrupter installed. Reading notes 5
> and 6 on the KPAK3AUX I am a bit confused.
>
> I want to key a 2M brick amplifier with the key out line on the K3. Can
> this be done without the key line interrupter in place?
>
> Or is the interrupter necessary to do this.
>
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[Elecraft] K3, KPA500, KAT500 and 2M brick amp keying

[Mike Sanders]

I have a K3 with built in 2M transverter. The K3 drives the KPA500 and 
KAT500 with the KPAK3AUX. Everything works


fine. I do not have the key line interrupter installed. Reading notes 5 
and 6 on the KPAK3AUX I am a bit confused.


I want to key a 2M brick amplifier with the key out line on the K3. Can 
this be done without the key line interrupter in place?


Or is the interrupter necessary to do this.

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[Elecraft] OT Elecraft K3 and KAT500 for Sale

[paule408--- via Elecraft]

I have the following items for Sale:
1) Elecraft K3 serial # 556.Elecraft, factory made, recently serviced and 
calibrated.This radio has never left my non smoking shack (no DXpeditions)
Recently had numerous updates at Elecraft factory. 
Single receiver.
Price is $1250 or best offer. 
2) Elecraft KAT500 Tuner. This tuner was factory assembled and works great. 
Price $475.00  This tuner currently retails for $675.
3) Kenwood TS590S.  $900 OBO. 
Please email me direct if you have any questions. 
Thank you!
Paul n6psepauln6...@gmail.com
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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] WTB: KAT500

[Petr, OK1RP/M0SIS]

Hi,
still no luck.
If someone know about dusty piece then I will be happy.
Best 73 - Petr, OK1RP



-
http://ok1rp.blogspot.com
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[Elecraft] [K3] WTB: KAT500

[Petr, OK1RP/M0SIS]

Hello, 

thank you very much for forwarded link with selling the KAT500 arrived from
one of the subscriber over here on list. Unfortunately CONUS only again. So
no deal. Still looking for this used unit to complete my station. Maybe if
someone in EU is thinking about selling it as "no more used" or so... 

Thank you for tips or offers. 

73 - Petr, OK1RP 




-
http://ok1rp.blogspot.com
--
View this message in context: 
http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-WTB-KAT500-tp7628974.html
Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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[Elecraft] K3/KPA500/KAT500 key interrupter w/W8ZR Station Pro 1?

[cx7tt]

Setting up the above config w/W8ZR Station Pro 1 and K2. The Station Pro
1 allows switching between two rigs whilst using one microphone/one
keyer/one set of speakers/headphones. It will also allow the use of the
KPA500 and KAT500 with either the K3 or K2.

Currently I have the K3 Line set up with Enhanced KPA500/KAT500
operation.  It works seamlessly.

Adding the K2 and W8ZR Station Pro 1 so I may have access to KPA500 and
KAT500; do I need to use the key line interruption in the circuit
between K3 key out and KAT500 PTT RLY as if a Steppir IR/W2 were in the
circuit?

Tips or suggestions?

Tnx y 73
Tom
HP1XT
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Re: [Elecraft] K3/KPA500/KAT500 SWR problem

[Jack Brindle]

From the discussion that you referred to, I would recommend the use of thick 
copper braid to bond the grounds of your equipment together in order to
reduce grounding problems. This is far better than using a copper bar or a 
single point ground in a star pattern.

Now just what problem are you trying to resolve? There were several discussed.

- Jack B, W6FB

 On Dec 19, 2014, at 7:31 PM, Va3ied scottshepp...@videotron.ca wrote:
 
 I just bought the tuner and am having the exact same issues on 80 mwhat
 veh of firmware works best?
 
 
 
 --
 View this message in context: 
 http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-KPA500-KAT500-SWR-problem-tp7582232p7596173.html
 Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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[Elecraft] K3 / KPA500/ KAT500 antenna select with power option

[Jack Satterfield]

Is there any way to assign a different drive power setting to the K3 when a
different antenna is selected on the KAT500?

Jack

W4GRJ

 

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[Elecraft] [K3] K3/KAT500 Macro Question

[Reilly, John]

Does anyone have a Macro to put the KAT500 in Tune mode AND THEN put 
the K3 into TUNE mode? I'd like to add it to some on the new N1MM+ 
macro buttons.

Thanks,
  - 73, John, N0TA
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[Elecraft] K3 and KAT500 low power problems

[ejkkjh]

I have been doing some testing using WSJT-X, and other digital modes, with my 
K3 an my Signalink USB.
Receive works pretty good with decodes on WSJT-X at –19 to an occasional decode 
at –24.
On transmit using various digital software and modes, when I transmit at 5 
watts the KAT500 has problems.
I tune up with 20 watts, all is fine, 1.0 swr.  But then I transmit with power 
at around 5 watts, in a digital transmission, the KAT500 starts a tuning cycle, 
then ends in a fault condition.  If I transmit with the power above about 10 
watts, clear up to 100, everything works perfect?
I have tried this with various modes and digital programs, does it every time, 
on several different bands.
I prefer to run at 5 watts but I guess the easy solution is to run at 15 or 20 
watts.
Any help or ideas would be appreciated.
Thank you 73
Emory  WM3M
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 and KAT500 low power problems

[mcduffie]

 I tune up with 20 watts, all is fine, 1.0 swr.  But then I transmit with 
 power at around 5 watts, in a digital transmission, the KAT500 starts a 
 tuning cycle, then ends in a fault condition.  If I transmit with the power 
 above about 10 watts, clear up to 100, everything works perfect?

As previously recommended, you should not leave it in auto after tuning.  After
tuning, use manual mode so that it doesn't go hunting.  This seems to be
especially true for CW/SSB, where power varies between zero and X watts.

Gary
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 and KAT500 low power problems

[Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft]

Hi Emory,

The KAT500 design is optimized for 10W through 1000 W operation, with better 
tuning above 20W. It is not designed as a QRP tuner.  It can be used at 5W 
levels, thought we do not guarantee this, if it is pre-tuned first at higher 
power (20 W +) on each freq and then run in manual mode (which still auto-reads 
the frequency and selects the correct prior tune for that range).  That should 
prevent most false frequency counts at 5W.


Your WSJT power envelope will drop well below its 5W peak during transmission, 
causing the frequency counter to get multiple incorrect counts and generating a 
spurious re-tune when operating in auto-tune mode. The frequency counter in the 
KAT500 works best during regular TX for signals that are primarily peaking above 
the 20W range.


Also, make sure you have the latest KAT500 firmware loaded in your unit. We have 
made significant improvements to the frequency counting and tuning algorithms 
since our earliest shipped units.


Personally, even when running my KPA500 with the KAT500 at 500 W operating 
levels, I use auto-tune mode and 20-50 W to train the tuner to my antennas on 
each frequency with a CW carrier, and then run it in manual mode at 500+ W from 
that point for normal operating.


73,

Eric
elecraft.com

On 11/13/2014 2:30 PM, ejk...@gmail.com wrote:

I have been doing some testing using WSJT-X, and other digital modes, with my 
K3 an my Signalink USB.
Receive works pretty good with decodes on WSJT-X at –19 to an occasional decode 
at –24.
On transmit using various digital software and modes, when I transmit at 5 
watts the KAT500 has problems.
I tune up with 20 watts, all is fine, 1.0 swr.  But then I transmit with power 
at around 5 watts, in a digital transmission, the KAT500 starts a tuning cycle, 
then ends in a fault condition.  If I transmit with the power above about 10 
watts, clear up to 100, everything works perfect?
I have tried this with various modes and digital programs, does it every time, 
on several different bands.
I prefer to run at 5 watts but I guess the easy solution is to run at 15 or 20 
watts.
Any help or ideas would be appreciated.
Thank you 73
Emory  WM3M
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 and KAT500 low power problems

[Jim Brown]

On Thu,11/13/2014 2:30 PM, ejk...@gmail.com wrote:

On transmit using various digital software and modes, when I transmit at 5 
watts the KAT500 has problems.
I tune up with 20 watts, all is fine, 1.0 swr.  But then I transmit with power 
at around 5 watts, in a digital transmission, the KAT500 starts a tuning cycle, 
then ends in a fault condition.  If I transmit with the power above about 10 
watts, clear up to 100, everything works perfect?


The reason the KAT500 is misbehaving is that it is a high power antenna 
tuner. Last I looked, 10W was the minimum power for tuning. That's why 
Gary advised you to take it out of Auto mode once you've trained it with 
higher power and stored settings.


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 and KAT500 low power problems

[Fred Jensen]

On 11/13/2014 4:10 PM, Jim Brown wrote:


The reason the KAT500 is misbehaving is that it is a high power antenna
tuner. Last I looked, 10W was the minimum power for tuning. That's why
Gary advised you to take it out of Auto mode once you've trained it with
higher power and stored settings.


Mine wants to see a tune power of 20 - 25W for reliable tuning.  I 
trained it on each segment, and normally run it in MAN mode.  It 
recalls the settings almost instantly.  Only annoyance for me is when it 
rains, the window-line changes characteristics just a little. 
California is in a deep drought however, so rain is scarce and this is a 
problem with *my* antenna system, not the KAT500.


73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 50th Running of the 2015 Cal QSO Party 3-4 Oct 2015
- www.cqp.org


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[Elecraft] K3, KPA500 KAT500 Firmware Upgrades

[Larry Libsch]

Group -

   My K3, KPA500, KAT500, two USB soundcards and an SDR are all 
cabled together and playing well. I would like to upgrade the firmware 
in all 3  K line devices.  Is it necessary to completely or partially 
remove cables before attaching my computer via USB - serial port cable 
to each K line device in turn and doing its firmware update? Removing 
and reassembling the cables is possible, but not trivial.


K4KGG, Larry
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Re: [Elecraft] K3, KPA500 KAT500 Firmware Upgrades

[Dick Dievendorff]

I have used a four-port USB to Serial Adapter (purchased on Amazon, from
Gearmo), along with two KXSER cables for the 9-pin DIN to 3.5mm TRS
conversion.

What I use now is a Edgeport 8-port USB to Serial adapter I found on eBay at
a very attractive price.

I need to be able to talk via RS-232 to any and all of the devices without
recabling.  Part of that is the needs of my job, but I'd want to do that way
even if it weren't my job...

73 de Dick, K6KR


-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Larry Libsch
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2014 7:11 AM
To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] K3, KPA500 KAT500 Firmware Upgrades

Group -

My K3, KPA500, KAT500, two USB soundcards and an SDR are all cabled
together and playing well. I would like to upgrade the firmware in all 3  K
line devices.  Is it necessary to completely or partially remove cables
before attaching my computer via USB - serial port cable to each K line
device in turn and doing its firmware update? Removing and reassembling the
cables is possible, but not trivial.

 K4KGG, Larry
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Re: [Elecraft] K3, KPA500 KAT500 Firmware Upgrades

[Don Wilhelm]

Larry,

You *should* be able to do the firmware upgrades with the cabling in place.
Of course, if you have any difficulty, the first order of 
troubleshooting is to isolate the gear that is producing problems.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/25/2014 10:11 AM, Larry Libsch wrote:

Group -

   My K3, KPA500, KAT500, two USB soundcards and an SDR are all 
cabled together and playing well. I would like to upgrade the firmware 
in all 3  K line devices.  Is it necessary to completely or partially 
remove cables before attaching my computer via USB - serial port cable 
to each K line device in turn and doing its firmware update? Removing 
and reassembling the cables is possible, but not trivial.


K4KGG, Larry
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Re: [Elecraft] K3, KPA500 KAT500 Firmware Upgrades

[Cady, Fred]

The Edgeport 8-port is a great way to go but a 4-port is good too.  I use mine 
to connect the K3/P3, KPA, KX3/KXPA, KAT, KRC2, and FSK Keying for the k3.
CHEERS,
Fred KE7X


-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Dick Dievendorff
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2014 8:48 AM
To: 'Larry Libsch'; Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3, KPA500 KAT500 Firmware Upgrades

I have used a four-port USB to Serial Adapter (purchased on Amazon, from 
Gearmo), along with two KXSER cables for the 9-pin DIN to 3.5mm TRS conversion.

What I use now is a Edgeport 8-port USB to Serial adapter I found on eBay at a 
very attractive price.

I need to be able to talk via RS-232 to any and all of the devices without 
recabling.  Part of that is the needs of my job, but I'd want to do that way 
even if it weren't my job...

73 de Dick, K6KR


-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Larry Libsch
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2014 7:11 AM
To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] K3, KPA500 KAT500 Firmware Upgrades

Group -

My K3, KPA500, KAT500, two USB soundcards and an SDR are all cabled 
together and playing well. I would like to upgrade the firmware in all 3  K 
line devices.  Is it necessary to completely or partially remove cables before 
attaching my computer via USB - serial port cable to each K line device in turn 
and doing its firmware update? Removing and reassembling the cables is 
possible, but not trivial.

 K4KGG, Larry 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3, KPA500 KAT500 Firmware Upgrades

[Doug Person]

There is also a Siig brand usb to serial port unit available in 2, 4 or 
8 serial ports that is far less expensive and works very well.


SIIG *-Port USB to RS-232 Serial Adapter Hub 
http://www.amazon.com/SIIG-8-Port-RS-232-Adapter-JU-SC0211-S1/dp/B005PAJV5A/ref=pd_cp_e_1


73, Doug -- K0DXV

On 3/25/2014 8:47 AM, Dick Dievendorff wrote:

Edgeport 8-port USB to Serial adapter


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Re: [Elecraft] K3, KPA500 KAT500 Firmware Upgrades

[Dick Dievendorff]

That's about twice what I paid for an Edgeport 8, new in box, on eBay.

One advantage of the four port Gearmo (for under $50) is that it terminates in 
male DB9 plugs that go right onto the back of the P3 and KPA500, no added RS232 
jumpers needed.  I did need KXSER jumpers for the 3.5mm Elecraft devices: 
KAT500, KX3, KXPA100, XG3. W2, K144XV.

Dick, K6KR


 On Mar 25, 2014, at 8:28, Doug Person k0...@aol.com wrote:
 
 There is also a Siig brand usb to serial port unit available in 2, 4 or 8 
 serial ports that is far less expensive and works very well.
 
 SIIG *-Port USB to RS-232 Serial Adapter Hub 
 http://www.amazon.com/SIIG-8-Port-RS-232-Adapter-JU-SC0211-S1/dp/B005PAJV5A/ref=pd_cp_e_1
 
 73, Doug -- K0DXV
 
 On 3/25/2014 8:47 AM, Dick Dievendorff wrote:
 Edgeport 8-port USB to Serial adapter
 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3, KPA500 KAT500 Firmware Upgrades

[Slava Baytalskiy]

What exactly is the function of this device? Does it give you 8 separate serial 
ports? Or is it just a hub? Is it somehow different from plugging 8 
USB-to-serial cables into a computer?
Thanks!

Slava Baytalskiy
sla...@nullserv.com
W2RMS

On Mar 25, 2014, at 11:28 AM, Doug Person k0...@aol.com wrote:

 There is also a Siig brand usb to serial port unit available in 2, 4 or 8 
 serial ports that is far less expensive and works very well.
 
 SIIG *-Port USB to RS-232 Serial Adapter Hub 
 http://www.amazon.com/SIIG-8-Port-RS-232-Adapter-JU-SC0211-S1/dp/B005PAJV5A/ref=pd_cp_e_1
 
 73, Doug -- K0DXV
 
 On 3/25/2014 8:47 AM, Dick Dievendorff wrote:
 Edgeport 8-port USB to Serial adapter
 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3, KPA500 KAT500 Firmware Upgrades

[Buck - k4ia]

You only plug one USB cable into the computer and the device creates x 
number of virtual serial ports.


Here's another one that has 4 serial outlets
http://www.amazon.com/GearMo%C2%AE-36inch-Windows-Certified-Drivers/dp/B004ETDC8K/ref=sr_1_29?s=pcie=UTF8qid=1395768623sr=1-29keywords=usb+serial+adapter 



Buck
k4ia

On 3/25/2014 12:10 PM, Slava Baytalskiy wrote:

What exactly is the function of this device? Does it give you 8 separate serial 
ports? Or is it just a hub? Is it somehow different from plugging 8 
USB-to-serial cables into a computer?
Thanks!

Slava Baytalskiy
sla...@nullserv.com
W2RMS

On Mar 25, 2014, at 11:28 AM, Doug Person k0...@aol.com wrote:


There is also a Siig brand usb to serial port unit available in 2, 4 or 8 
serial ports that is far less expensive and works very well.

SIIG *-Port USB to RS-232 Serial Adapter Hub 
http://www.amazon.com/SIIG-8-Port-RS-232-Adapter-JU-SC0211-S1/dp/B005PAJV5A/ref=pd_cp_e_1

73, Doug -- K0DXV

On 3/25/2014 8:47 AM, Dick Dievendorff wrote:

Edgeport 8-port USB to Serial adapter

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Re: [Elecraft] K3, KPA500 KAT500 Firmware Upgrades

[Doug Person]

Yes.  Exactly.  8 separate serial ports fed from a single USB port. 
There are many different types of these devices.  The one I use has one 
USB connector and 4 cables with DB9 connectors already attached - which 
makes it very convenient to hook up everything requiring a serial port 
with one cable.  I think it cost about $50 on Amazon and other places.


73, Doug -- K0DXV


On 3/25/2014 10:10 AM, Slava Baytalskiy wrote:

What exactly is the function of this device? Does it give you 8 separate serial 
ports? Or is it just a hub? Is it somehow different from plugging 8 
USB-to-serial cables into a computer?
Thanks!

Slava Baytalskiy
sla...@nullserv.com
W2RMS

On Mar 25, 2014, at 11:28 AM, Doug Person k0...@aol.com wrote:


There is also a Siig brand usb to serial port unit available in 2, 4 or 8 
serial ports that is far less expensive and works very well.

SIIG *-Port USB to RS-232 Serial Adapter Hub 
http://www.amazon.com/SIIG-8-Port-RS-232-Adapter-JU-SC0211-S1/dp/B005PAJV5A/ref=pd_cp_e_1

73, Doug -- K0DXV

On 3/25/2014 8:47 AM, Dick Dievendorff wrote:

Edgeport 8-port USB to Serial adapter

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Re: [Elecraft] K3, KPA500, KAT500 Firmware Updates

[Larry Libsch]

Group -

Thanks to all for your replies. I'll try the updates without 
removing the cables between the devices.


K4KGG, Larry
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Re: [Elecraft] K3, KPA500 KAT500 Firmware Upgrades

[David Fleming]

+1 for the Gearmo 4-port. It is FTDI based and works flawlessly on OS X. Hard 
to beat for  $50. I use it in tandem with a couple of KUSB's and KXUSB's to 
connect all of my Elecraft gear to my Mac. No need to do any cable swapping. 
Everything has it's own, dedicated USB/Serial adapter!

http://goo.gl/j6f72k


David, W4SMT





 From: Dick Dievendorff d...@elecraft.com
To: Doug Person k0...@aol.com 
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2014 11:36 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3, KPA500 KAT500 Firmware Upgrades
 

That's about twice what I paid for an Edgeport 8, new in box, on eBay.

One advantage of the four port Gearmo (for under $50) is that it terminates in 
male DB9 plugs that go right onto the back of the P3 and KPA500, no added RS232 
jumpers needed.  I did need KXSER jumpers for the 3.5mm Elecraft devices: 
KAT500, KX3, KXPA100, XG3. W2, K144XV.

Dick, K6KR


 On Mar 25, 2014, at 8:28, Doug Person k0...@aol.com wrote:
 
 There is also a Siig brand usb to serial port unit available in 2, 4 or 8 
 serial ports that is far less expensive and works very well.
 
 SIIG *-Port USB to RS-232 Serial Adapter Hub 
 http://www.amazon.com/SIIG-8-Port-RS-232-Adapter-JU-SC0211-S1/dp/B005PAJV5A/ref=pd_cp_e_1
 
 73, Doug -- K0DXV
 
 On 3/25/2014 8:47 AM, Dick Dievendorff wrote:
 Edgeport 8-port USB to Serial adapter
 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3/KPA500/KAT500 revs 4.83/1.38/1.58

[ke9uw]

Well that must be the result of what Jack said about loading the aux buss if
the KAT is off when you turn on the K3. 



-
Chuck, KE9UW
--
View this message in context: 
http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-KPA500-KAT500-revs-4-83-1-38-1-58-tp7584490p7584600.html
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Re: [Elecraft] K3/KPA500/KAT500 revs 4.83/1.38/1.58

[Arie Kleingeld PA3A]

I think I found a little thing to improve.
the KAT500 can miss a frequency update from the K3 in a certain situation

To replicate:
- Switch everything on and operate the KAT/KPA/K3 combo as usual with 
KAT500 in manual mode
- Activate the KAT500 utility for monitoring the KAT500 and select the 
Operate tab, here you can see the last observed frequency. See that 
KAT500 follows theK3 freq and switches accordingly.


Now
- set the KAT to BYPass
- Change K3 freq, note that the KAT500 freq info does not follow this.
- Switch KAT to MANual, note that the freq info is still not there
- now transmit with the K3, note that the KAT detects the frequency now 
and switches to the appropriate setting (the old way).


Improvement = KAT500 follows K3 freq in all KAT modes. so also in 
BYPass, and switches to the right setting as soon as you switch to 
MANual or AUTO.



73
Arie PA3A
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Re: [Elecraft] K3/KPA500/KAT500 revs 4.83/1.38/1.58

[Arie Kleingeld PA3A]

Yes,
The KAT500 needed to be powered first. I also used to do that. That was 
in the 'older firmware times'.


With the current FW, up till now  I never bumped into any issue no 
matter which device was turned on first.


Arie PA3A


Jack Brindle schreef op 21-2-2014 20:34:

The KAT500 needs to be powered on whenever the K3 is on in order to avoid 
loading the Auxbus. It can be powered up at the same time, but must be on 
before the K3 completes its initialization.

The KPA500 has no restriction, and can be powered on any time before or after 
the K3 is turned on.

Jack Brindle, W6FB

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Re: [Elecraft] K3/KPA500/KAT500 revs 4.83/1.38/1.58

[ke9uw]

My KAT goes on with the bench power supply. Then I turn on the K3 and the the
KPA.



-
Chuck, KE9UW
--
View this message in context: 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3/KPA500/KAT500 revs 4.83/1.38/1.58

[Cady, Fred]

Here is how to make it fail:
Disconnect the power completely from the KAT500 (maybe the micro in it stays on 
when it is powered off).
Turn off the K3 with its power switch with the KPA turned on.
Turn on the K3 with the KPA500 on.
I get either a blank K3 LCD display or it is hung up.

To recover:
Turn the power supply to the k3 off.
Plug in the power cable to the KAT500 (I use the same supply as the K3 with a 
Rig runner that powers everything up at once when the K3 turns on).
Turn the K3 and KAT500 power supply on.
Hit the Power On button on the K3.

YMMV.

73 all,
Fred KE7X

The Elecraft K3: Design, Configuration and Operation 2nd ed
The Elecraft KX3 - Going for the summit
www.ke7x.com or www.lulu.com 
(Coming soon: The Elecraft KPA500 and KAT500 - the K-Line Dream Station)

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Arie Kleingeld PA3A
Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2014 3:51 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3/KPA500/KAT500 revs 4.83/1.38/1.58

Yes,
The KAT500 needed to be powered first. I also used to do that. That was in the 
'older firmware times'.

With the current FW, up till now  I never bumped into any issue no matter which 
device was turned on first.

Arie PA3A


Jack Brindle schreef op 21-2-2014 20:34:
 The KAT500 needs to be powered on whenever the K3 is on in order to avoid 
 loading the Auxbus. It can be powered up at the same time, but must be on 
 before the K3 completes its initialization.

 The KPA500 has no restriction, and can be powered on any time before or after 
 the K3 is turned on.

 Jack Brindle, W6FB
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Re: [Elecraft] K3/KPA500/KAT500 revs 4.83/1.38/1.58

[ke9uw]

Oh yes, I remember now yesterday I got a soft fault on the KPA500. I turned
on the K3, the KAT500 went to the pretuned setting on 40M and then I turned
on the KPA500 and clicked it into operate.
 I said one word and the KPA500 went to standby. No red lights. I returned
it to operate and everything worked well. Forgot about that...not a problem,
but don't know why it did that.



-
Chuck, KE9UW
--
View this message in context: 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3/KPA500/KAT500 revs 4.83/1.38/1.58

[Stephen Prior]

Chuck,

I seem to remember reading that the order of turning on the K-line is
important.  I always turn on the KAT500, then the KPA500 followed by the
K3/P3.  I have not had any issues doing things in that order.  Maybe this
is why you had the 'problem'?

73 Stephen G4SJP


On 21 February 2014 10:19, ke9uw c-haw...@illinois.edu wrote:

 Oh yes, I remember now yesterday I got a soft fault on the KPA500. I turned
 on the K3, the KAT500 went to the pretuned setting on 40M and then I turned
 on the KPA500 and clicked it into operate.
  I said one word and the KPA500 went to standby. No red lights. I returned
 it to operate and everything worked well. Forgot about that...not a
 problem,
 but don't know why it did that.



 -
 Chuck, KE9UW
 --
 View this message in context:
 http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-KPA500-KAT500-revs-4-83-1-38-1-58-tp7584490p7584507.html
 Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: [Elecraft] K3/KPA500/KAT500 revs 4.83/1.38/1.58

[Jack Brindle]

The KAT500 needs to be powered on whenever the K3 is on in order to avoid 
loading the Auxbus. It can be powered up at the same time, but must be on 
before the K3 completes its initialization.

The KPA500 has no restriction, and can be powered on any time before or after 
the K3 is turned on.

Jack Brindle, W6FB

On Feb 21, 2014, at 2:23 AM, Stephen Prior eastbrantw...@gmail.com wrote:

 Chuck,
 
 I seem to remember reading that the order of turning on the K-line is
 important.  I always turn on the KAT500, then the KPA500 followed by the
 K3/P3.  I have not had any issues doing things in that order.  Maybe this
 is why you had the 'problem'?
 
 73 Stephen G4SJP
 
 
 On 21 February 2014 10:19, ke9uw c-haw...@illinois.edu wrote:
 
 Oh yes, I remember now yesterday I got a soft fault on the KPA500. I turned
 on the K3, the KAT500 went to the pretuned setting on 40M and then I turned
 on the KPA500 and clicked it into operate.
 I said one word and the KPA500 went to standby. No red lights. I returned
 it to operate and everything worked well. Forgot about that...not a
 problem,
 but don't know why it did that.
 
 
 
 -
 Chuck, KE9UW
 --
 View this message in context:
 http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-KPA500-KAT500-revs-4-83-1-38-1-58-tp7584490p7584507.html
 Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: [Elecraft] K3/KPA500/KAT500 revs 4.83/1.38/1.58

[bill conkling]

Sounds great but most of the time my KAT500 won't turn on until I turn on the 
K3.

What now?

...bill nr4c

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID

Jack Brindle jackbrin...@me.com wrote:

The KAT500 needs to be powered on whenever the K3 is on in order to avoid 
loading the Auxbus. It can be powered up at the same time, but must be on 
before the K3 completes its initialization.

The KPA500 has no restriction, and can be powered on any time before or after 
the K3 is turned on.

Jack Brindle, W6FB

On Feb 21, 2014, at 2:23 AM, Stephen Prior eastbrantw...@gmail.com wrote:

 Chuck,
 
 I seem to remember reading that the order of turning on the K-line is
 important.  I always turn on the KAT500, then the KPA500 followed by the
 K3/P3.  I have not had any issues doing things in that order.  Maybe this
 is why you had the 'problem'?
 
 73 Stephen G4SJP
 
 
 On 21 February 2014 10:19, ke9uw c-haw...@illinois.edu wrote:
 
 Oh yes, I remember now yesterday I got a soft fault on the KPA500. I turned
 on the K3, the KAT500 went to the pretuned setting on 40M and then I turned
 on the KPA500 and clicked it into operate.
 I said one word and the KPA500 went to standby. No red lights. I returned
 it to operate and everything worked well. Forgot about that...not a
 problem,
 but don't know why it did that.
 
 
 
 -
 Chuck, KE9UW
 --
 View this message in context:
 http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-KPA500-KAT500-revs-4-83-1-38-1-58-tp7584490p7584507.html
 Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: [Elecraft] K3/KPA500/KAT500 revs 4.83/1.38/1.58

[Jack Brindle]

You might want to say how you have the KAT powered. In my station I have a 
relay-switch power panel that I built. The relay is powered by the K3’s 12V 
output jack. When the K3 turns on, it powers the relay, which the switches 12V 
power to the various station boxes, including the KAT500. By the time the K3 is 
ready to talk to the KAT, it is awake and listening, as is the KRC2, P3, etc...

Jack B, W6FB

On Feb 21, 2014, at 5:44 PM, bill conkling n...@widomaker.com wrote:

 Sounds great but most of the time my KAT500 won't turn on until I turn on the 
 K3.
 
 What now?
 
 ...bill nr4c
 
 Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID
 
 
 Jack Brindle jackbrin...@me.com wrote:
 
 The KAT500 needs to be powered on whenever the K3 is on in order to avoid 
 loading the Auxbus. It can be powered up at the same time, but must be on 
 before the K3 completes its initialization.
 
 The KPA500 has no restriction, and can be powered on any time before or after 
 the K3 is turned on.
 
 Jack Brindle, W6FB
 
 On Feb 21, 2014, at 2:23 AM, Stephen Prior eastbrantw...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  Chuck,
  
  I seem to remember reading that the order of turning on the K-line is
  important.  I always turn on the KAT500, then the KPA500 followed by the
  K3/P3.  I have not had any issues doing things in that order.  Maybe this
  is why you had the 'problem'?
  
  73 Stephen G4SJP
  
  
  On 21 February 2014 10:19, ke9uw c-haw...@illinois.edu wrote:
  
  Oh yes, I remember now yesterday I got a soft fault on the KPA500. I turned
  on the K3, the KAT500 went to the pretuned setting on 40M and then I turned
  on the KPA500 and clicked it into operate.
  I said one word and the KPA500 went to standby. No red lights. I returned
  it to operate and everything worked well. Forgot about that...not a
  problem,
  but don't know why it did that.
  
  
  
  -
  Chuck, KE9UW
  --
  View this message in context:
  http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-KPA500-KAT500-revs-4-83-1-38-1-58-tp7584490p7584507.html
  Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: [Elecraft] K3/KPA500/KAT500 revs 4.83/1.38/1.58

[bill conkling]

It's plugged into the same PS as the K3.

...bill

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID

Jack Brindle jackbrin...@me.com wrote:

You might want to say how you have the KAT powered. In my station I have a 
relay-switch power panel that I built. The relay is powered by the K3’s 12V 
output jack. When the K3 turns on, it powers the relay, which the switches 12V 
power to the various station boxes, including the KAT500. By the time the K3 
is ready to talk to the KAT, it is awake and listening, as is the KRC2, P3, 
etc...


Jack B, W6FB


On Feb 21, 2014, at 5:44 PM, bill conkling n...@widomaker.com wrote:


Sounds great but most of the time my KAT500 won't turn on until I turn on the 
K3.


What now?


...bill nr4c


Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID



Jack Brindle jackbrin...@me.com wrote:

The KAT500 needs to be powered on whenever the K3 is on in order to avoid 
loading the Auxbus. It can be powered up at the same time, but must be on 
before the K3 completes its initialization.

The KPA500 has no restriction, and can be powered on any time before or after 
the K3 is turned on.

Jack Brindle, W6FB

On Feb 21, 2014, at 2:23 AM, Stephen Prior eastbrantw...@gmail.com wrote:

 Chuck,
 
 I seem to remember reading that the order of turning on the K-line is
 important.  I always turn on the KAT500, then the KPA500 followed by the
 K3/P3.  I have not had any issues doing things in that order.  Maybe this
 is why you had the 'problem'?
 
 73 Stephen G4SJP
 
 
 On 21 February 2014 10:19, ke9uw c-haw...@illinois.edu wrote:
 
 Oh yes, I remember now yesterday I got a soft fault on the KPA500. I turned
 on the K3, the KAT500 went to the pretuned setting on 40M and then I turned
 on the KPA500 and clicked it into operate.
 I said one word and the KPA500 went to standby. No red lights. I returned
 it to operate and everything worked well. Forgot about that...not a
 problem,
 but don't know why it did that.
 
 
 
 -
 Chuck, KE9UW
 --
 View this message in context:
 http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-KPA500-KAT500-revs-4-83-1-38-1-58-tp7584490p7584507.html
 Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: [Elecraft] K3/KPA500/KAT500 revs 4.83/1.38/1.58

[Cady, Fred]

Check the KAT500 configuration Initial Power screen to see if Power On When DC 
Power Applied is checked.
Fred KE7X

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of bill conkling
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 7:47 PM
To: Jack Brindle
Cc: elecraft
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3/KPA500/KAT500 revs 4.83/1.38/1.58

It's plugged into the same PS as the K3.

...bill

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID

Jack Brindle jackbrin...@me.com wrote:

You might want to say how you have the KAT powered. In my station I have a 
relay-switch power panel that I built. The relay is powered by the K3’s 12V 
output jack. When the K3 turns on, it powers the relay, which the switches 12V 
power to the various station boxes, including the KAT500. By the time the K3 
is ready to talk to the KAT, it is awake and listening, as is the KRC2, P3, 
etc...


Jack B, W6FB


On Feb 21, 2014, at 5:44 PM, bill conkling n...@widomaker.com wrote:


Sounds great but most of the time my KAT500 won't turn on until I turn on the 
K3.


What now?


...bill nr4c


Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID



Jack Brindle jackbrin...@me.com wrote:

The KAT500 needs to be powered on whenever the K3 is on in order to avoid 
loading the Auxbus. It can be powered up at the same time, but must be on 
before the K3 completes its initialization.

The KPA500 has no restriction, and can be powered on any time before or after 
the K3 is turned on.

Jack Brindle, W6FB

On Feb 21, 2014, at 2:23 AM, Stephen Prior eastbrantw...@gmail.com wrote:

 Chuck,
 
 I seem to remember reading that the order of turning on the K-line is 
 important.  I always turn on the KAT500, then the KPA500 followed by 
 the K3/P3.  I have not had any issues doing things in that order.  
 Maybe this is why you had the 'problem'?
 
 73 Stephen G4SJP
 
 
 On 21 February 2014 10:19, ke9uw c-haw...@illinois.edu wrote:
 
 Oh yes, I remember now yesterday I got a soft fault on the KPA500. I 
 turned on the K3, the KAT500 went to the pretuned setting on 40M and 
 then I turned on the KPA500 and clicked it into operate.
 I said one word and the KPA500 went to standby. No red lights. I 
 returned it to operate and everything worked well. Forgot about 
 that...not a problem, but don't know why it did that.
 
 
 
 -
 Chuck, KE9UW
 --
 View this message in context:
 http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-KPA500-KAT500-revs-4-83-1-38
 -1-58-tp7584490p7584507.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list 
 archive at Nabble.com.
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[Elecraft] K3/KPA500/KAT500 revs 4.83/1.38/1.58

[Carl Clawson]

All working smoothly except:

On a couple occasions, after manually initiating a tune, the tune completed
satisfactorily and then the KPA500 indicated a fault right at the end of
the tune cycle. Pretty sure it was a soft fault but I habitually hit the
button to clear it ... will observe more carefully if it happens again.

73, Carl WS7L
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 to KAT500

[Ian Kahn - Ham]

Tom,

Make sure you check the pin-outs and make sure they are the same on both
cables.  Elecraft does some different things with their cables than you
might find if you bought the same cable from other sources.

Hope this helps.

-- Ian
Ian Kahn, KM4IK
Roswell, GA  EM74ua
km4ik@gmail.com
K3 #281, P3 #688, KPA500 #1468
HRD v5.x/6.0 Test Team

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of tom armour
Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2014 11:54 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 to KAT500

So I ordered my K3 after this discussion and decided not to get the AUX
cable.  
Now subsequently there is new firmware that makes me want the AUX cable (I
would have got it from Elecraft if I had know of the new firmware).  
If I order it from Elecraft it now costs ~$46 including shipping and waiting
a week to get it.  
I can get this cable locally: http://www.qvs.com/specs/CC320M1-xx_S.jpg
Will that work for the AUX cable?  
K3 #7999KAT500 #1099
Thanks
73 - Tom - wa4ta

 Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2014 16:04:41 -0800
 From: j...@audiosystemsgroup.com
 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 to KAT500
 
 On 1/24/2014 3:52 PM, tom armour wrote:
  If I buy a K3/100 without auto tuner and a KAT500 is there any
additional cable I need (other than coax) to connect the two together?
 
 Some folks feel the need for an AUX cable to tell the KAT500 what band 
 it is on. I don't, because the KAT500 has a very fast frequency 
 counter that can figure that out with a short burst of RF.
 
  or does KAT500 come with all cable beeded to connect it to the K3?
 
 Yes.
I see a cable for KAT500 to KPA500 but not to the K3.
 
 Yes. To prevent damage to its relays, the KAT500 must be able to 
 interrupt the keying line to any power amp that is used.  It has an 
 RCA input, and an RCA output. So ONLY if you're running an amp, you 
 need an RCA-RCA between rig and KAT500, and another between KAT500 and 
 power amp PTT.
 
  Is there anything I'll be missing with the KAT500 vs the internal tuner
other than portability?
 
 QRP autotune  -- the KAT500 is optimized for high power, and doesn't 
 autotune very well below about 10W.
 
 73, Jim K9YC
 
 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 to KAT500

[George Danner]

Ian,
Just make sure the cable conforms to the Elecraft manual pin outs. Some 
(many) VGA cables will connect the coax shields together at one end or even 
both ends and some tie those to the ground pin and/or shell.
I made my first cable since I had 15 conductor ribbon cable  the connectors 
w/shells.
For the second cable, I found a VGA cable in my junk box that had continuity 
on all the pins with none of them connected together or to either shell.  I 
then removed the pins on one connector (broke them off) to confirm to the 
manual but I don't remember which ones.
My K-Line works fine; especially since I upgraded to VFO follow!
73  George  AI4VZ

-Original Message- 
From: Ian Kahn - Ham
Sent: Monday, February 17, 2014 11:04 AM
To: 'tom armour' ; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 to KAT500

Tom,

Make sure you check the pin-outs and make sure they are the same on both
cables.  Elecraft does some different things with their cables than you
might find if you bought the same cable from other sources.

Hope this helps.

-- Ian
Ian Kahn, KM4IK
Roswell, GA  EM74ua
km4ik@gmail.com
K3 #281, P3 #688, KPA500 #1468
HRD v5.x/6.0 Test Team

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of tom armour
Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2014 11:54 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 to KAT500

So I ordered my K3 after this discussion and decided not to get the AUX
cable.
Now subsequently there is new firmware that makes me want the AUX cable (I
would have got it from Elecraft if I had know of the new firmware).
If I order it from Elecraft it now costs ~$46 including shipping and waiting
a week to get it.
I can get this cable locally: http://www.qvs.com/specs/CC320M1-xx_S.jpg
Will that work for the AUX cable?
K3 #7999KAT500 #1099
Thanks
73 - Tom - wa4ta

 Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2014 16:04:41 -0800
 From: j...@audiosystemsgroup.com
 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 to KAT500

 On 1/24/2014 3:52 PM, tom armour wrote:
  If I buy a K3/100 without auto tuner and a KAT500 is there any
additional cable I need (other than coax) to connect the two together?

 Some folks feel the need for an AUX cable to tell the KAT500 what band
 it is on. I don't, because the KAT500 has a very fast frequency
 counter that can figure that out with a short burst of RF.

  or does KAT500 come with all cable beeded to connect it to the K3?

 Yes.
I see a cable for KAT500 to KPA500 but not to the K3.

 Yes. To prevent damage to its relays, the KAT500 must be able to
 interrupt the keying line to any power amp that is used.  It has an
 RCA input, and an RCA output. So ONLY if you're running an amp, you
 need an RCA-RCA between rig and KAT500, and another between KAT500 and
 power amp PTT.

  Is there anything I'll be missing with the KAT500 vs the internal tuner
other than portability?

 QRP autotune  -- the KAT500 is optimized for high power, and doesn't
 autotune very well below about 10W.

 73, Jim K9YC


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 to KAT500

[Fred Jensen]

Not positive with no schematic, but I think that's a VGA cable and does 
not have all 15 pins wired straight through from one connector to the 
other.  If true, no, it won't work.


73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 2014 Cal QSO Party 4-5 Oct 2014
- www.cqp.org

On 2/16/2014 8:54 PM, tom armour wrote:

So I ordered my K3 after this discussion and decided not to get the AUX cable.
Now subsequently there is new firmware that makes me want the AUX cable (I 
would have got it from Elecraft if I had know of the new firmware).
If I order it from Elecraft it now costs ~$46 including shipping and waiting a 
week to get it.
I can get this cable locally: http://www.qvs.com/specs/CC320M1-xx_S.jpg
Will that work for the AUX cable?
K3 #7999KAT500 #1099



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 to KAT500

[tom armour]

So I ordered my K3 after this discussion and decided not to get the AUX cable.  
Now subsequently there is new firmware that makes me want the AUX cable (I 
would have got it from Elecraft if I had know of the new firmware).  
If I order it from Elecraft it now costs ~$46 including shipping and waiting a 
week to get it.  
I can get this cable locally: http://www.qvs.com/specs/CC320M1-xx_S.jpg
Will that work for the AUX cable?  
K3 #7999KAT500 #1099
Thanks
73 - Tom - wa4ta

 Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2014 16:04:41 -0800
 From: j...@audiosystemsgroup.com
 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 to KAT500
 
 On 1/24/2014 3:52 PM, tom armour wrote:
  If I buy a K3/100 without auto tuner and a KAT500 is there any additional 
  cable I need (other than coax) to connect the two together?
 
 Some folks feel the need for an AUX cable to tell the KAT500 what band 
 it is on. I don't, because the KAT500 has a very fast frequency counter 
 that can figure that out with a short burst of RF.
 
  or does KAT500 come with all cable beeded to connect it to the K3?
 
 Yes.
I see a cable for KAT500 to KPA500 but not to the K3.
 
 Yes. To prevent damage to its relays, the KAT500 must be able to 
 interrupt the keying line to any power amp that is used.  It has an RCA 
 input, and an RCA output. So ONLY if you're running an amp, you need an 
 RCA-RCA between rig and KAT500, and another between KAT500 and power amp 
 PTT.
 
  Is there anything I'll be missing with the KAT500 vs the internal tuner 
  other than portability?
 
 QRP autotune  -- the KAT500 is optimized for high power, and doesn't 
 autotune very well below about 10W.
 
 73, Jim K9YC
 
 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 to KAT500

[Don Wilhelm]

Tom,

The fact that pins 6, 7, and 8 are designated as 'ground' indicates to 
me that this is a VGA cable and those pins will be connected together.
You need a cable that is wired with all 15 pins independent of each 
other - in other words, a 'stragiht-thru' cable.


If you want it fast, ask Elecraft to send it via Priority Mail, it will 
arrive in 3 days.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 2/16/2014 11:54 PM, tom armour wrote:

So I ordered my K3 after this discussion and decided not to get the AUX cable.
Now subsequently there is new firmware that makes me want the AUX cable (I 
would have got it from Elecraft if I had know of the new firmware).
If I order it from Elecraft it now costs ~$46 including shipping and waiting a 
week to get it.
I can get this cable locally: http://www.qvs.com/specs/CC320M1-xx_S.jpg
Will that work for the AUX cable?
K3 #7999KAT500 #1099
Thanks
73 - Tom - wa4ta



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[Elecraft] K3/KPA500/KAT500 new Beta firmware further observations

[Jim Sheldon]

During field testing of the newest firmware for the K3, KPA500 and KAT500, 
after a good exercise of it I was asked to post my observations and I did in a 
previous email to the list.  There have been a few tweaks and the latest field 
test versions have been released as public Beta versions.  They are, K3 version 
4.83, KPA500 version 1.37 and KAT500 version 1.58 available for download on the 
Elecraft website.

I have had all of these loaded since they were released and have found no 
problems with them.  I'm currently taking a break from the ARRL International 
DX contest where I'm operating Single Op, High Power Unassisted.  (Normally I 
operate Low Power or QRP, but running 600 watts in this one with the KPA500  
KAT500 to really test the new firmware.)

Last night, I started out on 10 meters and worked down to 160 meters as the 
higher bands closed or I had worked all the DX stations I could hear with my 
meager antenna system (Cushcraft A3S@35 feet and Alpha Delta DX-LB 160/80/40 
shortened dipole at about 33 feet).

In several previous contests, (before any of the new firmware was even 
available for field test) I was very annoyed by the KAT500 sporadically 
initiating a tuning cycle during a contest exchange, mostly on 160 and 80 
meters, but occasionally on the others as well.

The first iteration of the Field Test FW I was allowed to test cured some but 
not all of the problems.  The Elecraft FW Engineering programmers have been 
working diligently behind the scenes to correct the bugs I (and all the other 
testers) reported.  

Prior to the start of the contest last night, I made sure the KAT500's memories 
were loaded by training it at appropriate intervals on all the bands which 
wound up (for my antennas, yours may vary) being every 10 KHz on 160 meters, 
every 30 KHz on 80 meters, every 50 KHz on 40, and every 100 KHz on 20,15 and 
10 meters.

During the 8 hours I've operated so far, I've been all the way from the top end 
of the 10 meter CW band through the 15, 20, 40, 80 and 160 meter bands and NOT 
ONCE did the KAT500 initiate a tune and the tuner automatically followed the 
K3's VFO, switching at the necessary points and I never saw over a 1.1:1 SWR on 
ANY frequency I was on.  I was not in contest run mode, sitting on a 
frequency calling CQ, but search  pounce the entire operating time to really 
exercise the FW and I figure if it was going to fail, it would under those 
conditions.  It did not.  

They finally think they have gotten all the bugs we reported, (bear in mind 
that with any software/firmware one never gets all the bugs out nor does the 
program ever do everything that everyone wanted it to).

 From the results of my operation in this contest I'm very pleased with the 
equipment and firmware as currently installed and barring any further minor 
tweaks that Wayne  crew deem necessary to make, I think these versions could 
very well be ready to become full production versions.  Certainly those of you 
who have been holding back because they are listed as Beta versions ought to 
re-consider installing them especially if you're still frustrated by random 
tuning cycles initiated by the ATU at points it shouldn't.  The ability for the 
ATU to follow the K3's RX frequency and set the LC network to a memorized 
combination without having to transmit is a real plus!   If you DO decide to 
install them, BE SURE to read the release notes and instructions contained in 
them to properly activate the integration between the K3 and KAT500 in the menu 
(don't ask me why I'm emphasizing this -- LOL!)

Jim Sheldon, W0EB
Park City, KS

K3 #5027, KPA500 #0443 and KAT500 #0037


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 to KAT500

[ke9uw]

I did some testing and on auto the KAT500 will tune (tune wrong) if I hit
it with the a possibly flat topped 500 watts. When I put the KAT500 on man
it goes into bypass. Then I have go to auto and hit tune on the K3,
the KAT500 goes back to the saved tune setup for that frequency.



-
Chuck, KE9UW
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 to KAT500

[XE3/K5ENS]

The solution is for the K3 to just tell the KAT500 what frequency it is on. 
We have all this Elecraft equipment connected together but a lack of
communication between them is the problem.

Keith



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 to KAT500

[David Bunte]

Keith -

I do not believe that is the problem.  My K3 tells the KAT500 what
frequency it is on as soon as I change frequency on the K3 (or the
KPA500).  If not cabled appropriately, then, of course the KAT500 needs a
bit of RF to know what frequency it is on.

The problem is that for some users, even after the KAT500 knows what
frequency the K3 is on, and has a match, it sometimes thinks the frequency
has changed, and tries to find a new solution.  At lease that is the way I
understand the problem as reported by those who actually have it.  I do
consider myself fortunate to not see that issue here, but as someone else
has speculated, that may be due to the fact that I don't operate SSB.

When I first started using the KAT500 I did not have all the cabling
optimized for my setup... I got one more cable, connected it and all now
seems to be perfect.

73 de Dave - K9FN


On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 9:37 AM, XE3/K5ENS nela...@yahoo.com wrote:

 The solution is for the K3 to just tell the KAT500 what frequency it is
 on.
 We have all this Elecraft equipment connected together but a lack of
 communication between them is the problem.

 Keith



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 to KAT500

[Bill W2BLC]

I agree - once you have done the drudgery of setting the tune memories 
up  for the bands you use, the KPA500 should merely track the K3's VFO. 
Seems to me that would be fool proof - maybe???


Change the operation of the AUTO MAN and BYP switches to:

AUTO - will tune anytime if needed
MAN - only tracks the VFO to locate the proper memory
BYP - tuner is out of the circuit and only the antenna selector operates

Have to see what Elecraft does with this problem - hope it is soon. I'd 
like to use my KPA500.


Bill W2BLC K-Line (???)



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 to KAT500

[XE3/K5ENS]

Dave,

The K3 does not tell the KAT500 what frequency it is on.  It only tells what
band it is on and the KAT500 returns to the last frequency on the band.

Keith



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 to KAT500

[David Bunte]

Keith -

Thanks for that correction.  Since I do not move around a lot on any given
band, that distinction did not even register with me.

Dave - K9FN


On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 10:03 AM, XE3/K5ENS nela...@yahoo.com wrote:

 Dave,

 The K3 does not tell the KAT500 what frequency it is on.  It only tells
 what
 band it is on and the KAT500 returns to the last frequency on the band.

 Keith



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 to KAT500

[XE3/K5ENS]

I know very little about how all this works but my guess is that the problem
maybe in the timing of the KAT500 as to when it decides the K3 has QSY'd. 
On SSB the frequency will vary quickly as you speak.  If the KAT500 sees a
new frequency for too long of a time it may think the K3 has changed
frequency and invoke a tune.  The longer the KAT500 waits to see if the K3
has actually changed the slower the response the KAT500 will be on a normal
frequency change.


Keith



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 to KAT500

[Wayne Burdick]

Hi all,

Improvements are being tested. In addition to better verification of the 
frequency count, we're going to provide a way for the K3 to send the VFO 
frequency to the KAT500 so it can pre-load the LC network as you tune. This 
will all be done in firmware.

73,
Wayne
N6KR


On Jan 28, 2014, at 7:23 AM, XE3/K5ENS nela...@yahoo.com wrote:

 I know very little about how all this works but my guess is that the problem
 maybe in the timing of the KAT500 as to when it decides the K3 has QSY'd. 
 On SSB the frequency will vary quickly as you speak.  If the KAT500 sees a
 new frequency for too long of a time it may think the K3 has changed
 frequency and invoke a tune.  The longer the KAT500 waits to see if the K3
 has actually changed the slower the response the KAT500 will be on a normal
 frequency change.
 
 
 Keith
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 to KAT500

[XE3/K5ENS]

Bill is correct.  In it's current state the KAT500 has a major flaw.  I wants
to retune at inopportune
times.  Elecraft has responded to this problem but has not released new
firmware to correct the problem.
I'm not saying you shouldn't order one now but be aware the problem is real.

Keith



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 to KAT500

[Bill W2BLC]

It is enough of a problem that I have been running 100 Watts using the 
K3's internal tuner for several weeks - waiting for the fix to be delivered.


My best description of the KAT500's behavior? It is possessed!

Bill W2BLC K-Line(???)


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 to KAT500

[David Bunte]

Like many, I am curious to learn if/how this issue will be solved for those
who experience it.  I think it is interesting that there are a number of us
who have not seen that problem AT ALL.

I am one of the lucky ones, and my antenna does present a challenge to the
tuner, since it is close to resonance only on 30 meters.

Good luck to all.

73 de Dave - K9FN


On Mon, Jan 27, 2014 at 1:30 PM, Bill W2BLC w2...@nycap.rr.com wrote:

 It is enough of a problem that I have been running 100 Watts using the
 K3's internal tuner for several weeks - waiting for the fix to be delivered.

 My best description of the KAT500's behavior? It is possessed!

 Bill W2BLC K-Line(???)


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 to KAT500

[Phil Hystad]

I wonder why I have never seen this problem.  Maybe it is sporadic with 
different KAT500 instances or possibly it is because I am about 99 percent CW.  
Maybe this problem is more evident with SSB?

73, phil, K7PEH, K-Line !!


On Jan 27, 2014, at 10:30 AM, Bill W2BLC w2...@nycap.rr.com wrote:

 It is enough of a problem that I have been running 100 Watts using the K3's 
 internal tuner for several weeks - waiting for the fix to be delivered.
 
 My best description of the KAT500's behavior? It is possessed!
 
 Bill W2BLC K-Line(???)
 
 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 to KAT500

[David Bunte]

Phil -

You may be onto something... I have never tried SSB with the KAT500.

Dave - K9FN


On Mon, Jan 27, 2014 at 2:02 PM, Phil Hystad phys...@mac.com wrote:

 I wonder why I have never seen this problem.  Maybe it is sporadic with
 different KAT500 instances or possibly it is because I am about 99 percent
 CW.  Maybe this problem is more evident with SSB?

 73, phil, K7PEH, K-Line !!


 On Jan 27, 2014, at 10:30 AM, Bill W2BLC w2...@nycap.rr.com wrote:

  It is enough of a problem that I have been running 100 Watts using the
 K3's internal tuner for several weeks - waiting for the fix to be delivered.
 
  My best description of the KAT500's behavior? It is possessed!
 
  Bill W2BLC K-Line(???)
 
 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 to KAT500

[Bill W2BLC]

Yes - you may be onto something indeed!  Have you ever watched a 
frequency counter while speaking on SSB?


As the KAT500 measures the frequency you are transmitting on to 
determine what tuning memory to go use - this may well be the problem. 
Mid QSO, the frequency counter determines you are now transmitting on a 
new frequency and the tuner goes nuts. This may be experienced more by 
some operators than others - due, in part, to their particular voice 
characteristics. CW would enter no variables for the frequency counter 
to misinterpret.


For whatever reason it fails, the tuner and amp are of no use to me - 
hence, I am happily running 100 Watts using the infallible KAT3 internal 
antenna tuner. It is quiet, fast, and has never failed me. I am heard 
where I want to be, some saying there is little to no difference without 
the 500 Watt amp. These are the folks I QSO with every day - so those 
reports count.


The expensive tuner and amp may well be headed down the road - factory 
built and six months old - I am not pleased. Will I purchase a 
replacement amp and tuner? I really do not know. The jury is out and no 
decisions have been made about any changes yet.


Bill W2BLC K-Line(???)

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 to KAT500

[ke9uw]

I've had that retuning happen, but I think it's when I get into the mic and
flat top or whatever. Maybe too much mic gain...not sure. But it is
annoying.



-
Chuck, KE9UW
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 to KAT500

[Bill W2BLC]

The internal 100 Watt ATU is really a fine piece of work. It is quiet 
and fast - displaying no bad habits.


I cannot say that about the KAT500! The latter has a habit of retuning 
in the middle of a QSO. It is disconcerting, making noises and flashing 
various lights and sometimes kicking the KPA500 into standby.  Even 
placing the tuner in MAN does not keep it quiet. I would recommend 
waiting on that purchase until the bugs have been worked out.


Elecraft is currently working on the problem - in the interim I have 
some very exensive paper weights.


Bill W2BLC K-Line(???)
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 to KAT500

[Ken G Kopp]

Bill,

Something's surely wrong.  My same setup works flawlessly.always has.

Have you contacted Elecraft?

73

Ken - K0PP
On Jan 25, 2014 7:21 AM, Bill W2BLC w2...@nycap.rr.com wrote:

 The internal 100 Watt ATU is really a fine piece of work. It is quiet and
 fast - displaying no bad habits.

 I cannot say that about the KAT500! The latter has a habit of retuning in
 the middle of a QSO. It is disconcerting, making noises and flashing
 various lights and sometimes kicking the KPA500 into standby.  Even placing
 the tuner in MAN does not keep it quiet. I would recommend waiting on that
 purchase until the bugs have been worked out.

 Elecraft is currently working on the problem - in the interim I have some
 very exensive paper weights.

 Bill W2BLC K-Line(???)
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[Elecraft] K3 to KAT500

[tom armour]

If I buy a K3/100 without auto tuner and a KAT500 is there any additional cable 
I need (other than coax) to connect the two together? or does KAT500 come with 
all cable beeded to connect it to the K3?  I see a cable for KAT500 to KPA500 
but not to the K3.
Is there anything I'll be missing with the KAT500 vs the internal tuner other 
than portability?  I hope to be able to make an order soon.
Thanks
73 - Tom - wa4ta
  
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 to KAT500

[Jim Brown]

On 1/24/2014 3:52 PM, tom armour wrote:

If I buy a K3/100 without auto tuner and a KAT500 is there any additional cable 
I need (other than coax) to connect the two together?


Some folks feel the need for an AUX cable to tell the KAT500 what band 
it is on. I don't, because the KAT500 has a very fast frequency counter 
that can figure that out with a short burst of RF.



or does KAT500 come with all cable beeded to connect it to the K3?


Yes.

  I see a cable for KAT500 to KPA500 but not to the K3.


Yes. To prevent damage to its relays, the KAT500 must be able to 
interrupt the keying line to any power amp that is used.  It has an RCA 
input, and an RCA output. So ONLY if you're running an amp, you need an 
RCA-RCA between rig and KAT500, and another between KAT500 and power amp 
PTT.



Is there anything I'll be missing with the KAT500 vs the internal tuner other 
than portability?


QRP autotune  -- the KAT500 is optimized for high power, and doesn't 
autotune very well below about 10W.


73, Jim K9YC


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[Elecraft] K3 to KAT500

[Rick Bates]

The internal tuner is MUCH quieter if that is a factor (mouse vs elephant).
It also provides a slightly better match (not quite the same component
values) and seems faster than the KAT500 for tuning (I haven't measured it).


The internal tuner has no issues with my EDZ dipole (two opposing 5/8 at
75M) on any band; the KAT500 has troubles on 75 and 160 (antenna is too
reactive).

If you EVER plan on taking the K3 anywhere, having an internal tuner means
you can operate without having to take the KAT500 et al as well.

73,
Rick wa6nhc


 -Original Message-
 From: Jim Brown
 
 On 1/24/2014 3:52 PM, tom armour wrote:
  Is there anything I'll be missing with the KAT500 vs the internal tuner
 other than portability?
 
 QRP autotune  -- the KAT500 is optimized for high power, and doesn't
 autotune very well below about 10W.


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[Elecraft] K3 to KAT500

[Johnny Siu]

Apart from Jim's advice below, I would supplement as follows:

1.  If you have no intention to take K3 as portable use or your K3 is a station 
rig, I would go for KAT500.  This will give you the future liberty of buying a 
KPA500 or other linear amplifier.
2.  Once you have a linear, the internal KAT3 tuner will become redundant.  In 
fact, I sold the KAT3 to subsidize the purchase of KAT500.  I am using KX3 for 
portable use.

73

Johnny VR2XMC
 


 寄件人︰ Jim Brown j...@audiosystemsgroup.com
收件人︰ elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
傳送日期︰ 2014年01月25日 (週六) 8:04 AM
主題︰ Re: [Elecraft] K3 to KAT500
  

On 1/24/2014 3:52 PM, tom armour wrote:
 If I buy a K3/100 without auto tuner and a KAT500 is there any additional 
 cable I need (other than coax) to connect the two together?

Some folks feel the need for an AUX cable to tell the KAT500 what band 
it is on. I don't, because the KAT500 has a very fast frequency counter 
that can figure that out with a short burst of RF.

 or does KAT500 come with all cable beeded to connect it to the K3?

Yes.
   I see a cable for KAT500 to KPA500 but not to the K3.

Yes. To prevent damage to its relays, the KAT500 must be able to 
interrupt the keying line to any power amp that is used.  It has an RCA 
input, and an RCA output. So ONLY if you're running an amp, you need an 
RCA-RCA between rig and KAT500, and another between KAT500 and power amp 
PTT.

 Is there anything I'll be missing with the KAT500 vs the internal tuner other 
 than portability?

QRP autotune  -- the KAT500 is optimized for high power, and doesn't 
autotune very well below about 10W.

73, Jim K9YC


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 to KAT500

[tom armour]

ThanksGreat input so far!It is really helping me finalize my decision. 

A few more notes/questions:I have an old tube amp (fl-2100) that does about 
600w max I intend to use until I get the money together for a KPA500.
I currently use a manual tuner that I could potentially put in line if I want 
to run QRP.I do not intend to move the K3 a lot.  I have another radio I can 
use portable.

With the old amp should I have an AUX cable?  or is the RCA cables 
Rig-KAT500-Amp enough?
73 - Tom - wa4ta
 Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2014 09:27:07 +0800
 From: vr2...@yahoo.com.hk
 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 Subject: [Elecraft]  K3 to KAT500
 
 Apart from Jim's advice below, I would supplement as follows:
 
 1.  If you have no intention to take K3 as portable use or your K3 is a 
 station rig, I would go for KAT500.  This will give you the future liberty of 
 buying a KPA500 or other linear amplifier.
 2.  Once you have a linear, the internal KAT3 tuner will become redundant.  
 In fact, I sold the KAT3 to subsidize the purchase of KAT500.  I am using KX3 
 for portable use.
 
 73
 
 Johnny VR2XMC
  
 
 
  寄件人︰ Jim Brown j...@audiosystemsgroup.com
 收件人︰ elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
 傳送日期︰ 2014年01月25日 (週六) 8:04 AM
 主題︰ Re: [Elecraft] K3 to KAT500
   
 
 On 1/24/2014 3:52 PM, tom armour wrote:
  If I buy a K3/100 without auto tuner and a KAT500 is there any additional 
  cable I need (other than coax) to connect the two together?
 
 Some folks feel the need for an AUX cable to tell the KAT500 what band 
 it is on. I don't, because the KAT500 has a very fast frequency counter 
 that can figure that out with a short burst of RF.
 
  or does KAT500 come with all cable beeded to connect it to the K3?
 
 Yes.
I see a cable for KAT500 to KPA500 but not to the K3.
 
 Yes. To prevent damage to its relays, the KAT500 must be able to 
 interrupt the keying line to any power amp that is used.  It has an RCA 
 input, and an RCA output. So ONLY if you're running an amp, you need an 
 RCA-RCA between rig and KAT500, and another between KAT500 and power amp 
 PTT.
 
  Is there anything I'll be missing with the KAT500 vs the internal tuner 
  other than portability?
 
 QRP autotune  -- the KAT500 is optimized for high power, and doesn't 
 autotune very well below about 10W.
 
 73, Jim K9YC
 
 
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[Elecraft] K3 to KAT500

[Johnny Siu]

Tom,

KAT500 has built-in internal frequency counter for auto band switching.  The 
supplied cable with KAT500 will be good enough.  The aux cable will be more 
useful if you eventually have the KPA500.  

I suggest you download the operation manual of KAT500.  There are connection 
diagram inside the manual which will give you very good ideas.

73

Johnny Vr2XMC
 


 寄件人︰ tom armour wa...@hotmail.com
收件人︰ elecraft@mailman.qth.net elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
傳送日期︰ 2014年01月25日 (週六) 10:27 AM
主題︰ Re: [Elecraft] K3 to KAT500
  

ThanksGreat input so far!It is really helping me finalize my decision. 

A few more notes/questions:I have an old tube amp (fl-2100) that does about 
600w max I intend to use until I get the money together for a KPA500.
I currently use a manual tuner that I could potentially put in line if I want 
to run QRP.I do not intend to move the K3 a lot.  I have another radio I can 
use portable.

With the old amp should I have an AUX cable?  or is the RCA cables 
Rig-KAT500-Amp enough?
73 - Tom - wa4ta
 Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2014 09:27:07 +0800
 From: vr2...@yahoo.com.hk
 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 Subject: [Elecraft]  K3 to KAT500
 
 Apart from Jim's advice below, I would supplement as follows:
 
 1.  If you have no intention to take K3 as portable use or your K3 is a 
 station rig, I would go for KAT500.  This will give you the future liberty of 
 buying a KPA500 or other linear amplifier.
 2.  Once you have a linear, the internal KAT3 tuner will become redundant.  
 In fact, I sold the KAT3 to subsidize the purchase of KAT500.  I am using KX3 
 for portable use.
 
 73
 
 Johnny VR2XMC
  
 
 
  寄件人︰ Jim Brown j...@audiosystemsgroup.com
 收件人︰ elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
 傳送日期︰ 2014年01月25日 (週六) 8:04 AM
 主題︰ Re: [Elecraft] K3 to KAT500
  
 
 On 1/24/2014 3:52 PM, tom armour wrote:
  If I buy a K3/100 without auto tuner and a KAT500 is there any additional 
  cable I need (other than coax) to connect the two together?
 
 Some folks feel the need for an AUX cable to tell the KAT500 what band 
 it is on. I don't, because the KAT500 has a very fast frequency counter 
 that can figure that out with a short burst of RF.
 
  or does KAT500 come with all cable beeded to connect it to the K3?
 
 Yes.
    I see a cable for KAT500 to KPA500 but not to the K3.
 
 Yes. To prevent damage to its relays, the KAT500 must be able to 
 interrupt the keying line to any power amp that is used.  It has an RCA 
 input, and an RCA output. So ONLY if you're running an amp, you need an 
 RCA-RCA between rig and KAT500, and another between KAT500 and power amp 
 PTT.
 
  Is there anything I'll be missing with the KAT500 vs the internal tuner 
  other than portability?
 
 QRP autotune  -- the KAT500 is optimized for high power, and doesn't 
 autotune very well below about 10W.
 
 73, Jim K9YC
 
 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 to KAT500

[Jim Brown]

On 1/24/2014 6:27 PM, tom armour wrote:
 With the old amp should I have an AUX cable?  or is the RCA cables 
 Rig-KAT500-Amp enough?

That's what you MUST use. I don't know anything about PTT for that
particular amplifier, so you should investigate voltage and current to
make sure it's OK with the K3. Most modern amps are.

73, Jim K9YC
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[Elecraft] K3/KPA500/KAT500 SWR Problem WHITE SMOKE!

[Ray Coles]

I am pleased to relate that I seem to have finally nailed this problem, and
I think many of those who gave me helpful advice and the Elecraft design
team will be interested in learning what the final diagnosis and cure turned
out to be. A quick recap: About 2 months ago, operating at about 75W into my
trusty OCFD, the KAT500, KPA500 and K3 SWR readings shot up into the red and
all DX fun ended abruptly. The problem remained, so I started looking for
the culprit: I pruned tree branches that were touching the antenna after a
recent storm. No joy. I replaced my 300W 4:1 balun at the end of my RG58
buried coax feeder with a 1KW unit. No Joy. I replaced the buried RG58
feeder with UR8 which took a new route, avoiding burial. No Joy. I dropped
the antenna and replaced the 300ohm twin feeder from the balun to the T
piece, the T piece itself and the antenna wire and dog bones. No joy. At
this point I consulted the Reflector Oracle, and the most common response
was common mode current on the feeder caused by OCFD unbalance. I did
research and decided to build the renowned GM3SEK choke balun. I chose the
mid range version which covers broadly 5-14MHz and installed it just south
of my 4:1 balun at the North end of the feeder. No Joy. Further ideas from
reflector pundits suggested that it might still be common mode, but coupled
from the antenna into the feeder where my GM3SEK choke wouldn't help.

Fortunately I had bought enough Fair Rite oval cores to build all three
(Lo/Mid/Hi) balun designs, so in a final roll of the dice I built the two
core Hi Band balun and installed it in the Shack next to my rig. The hi band
version has a fairly flat impedance curve and reaches down to 7MHz and up to
30MHz. IT WORKED! I have run 100W on all the bands from 40m to 10m and I
have seen no run away SWR readings. My 25W tune value stays rock solid. As a
final push-my luck step I turned the KPA500 to operate and ran 400W SSB. No
Sweat! All of these things were no-nos yesterday.

The final diagnosis is as follows: Some simple fault perhaps a connector or
a crimp termination caused the first occurrence. I then compounded the
problem by replacing my buried RG58 with an unburied and, I now see, a more
parallel routed feeder which locked the problem in via antenna coupled
common-mode currents. This also explains the fact that I could keep
operating provided I kept power below 40W. Some respondents felt there was a
KAT problem which compounded the problem, I always felt that the problem lay
outside the shack but that maybe, just maybe, the KAT might be a bit
sensitive to the problem. The only thing I would ask the Elecraft design
team to investigate is whether the SWR circuitry has to respond to the
common mode currents as it does. Probably not a firmware issue though!
Thanks to the many people who made so many helpful suggestions.  E Pluribus
Unum!

 

Ray Coles, C.Eng. M0XDL

10 Littlemoor Road,

Weymouth DT3 6AA

Tel: +44 (0) 1305 833699

Mob: 07831 516517

 

 

 

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Re: [Elecraft] K3/KPA500/KAT500 SWR Problem WHITE SMOKE!

[Stephen Prior]

Good news Ray, I swear by Ian's choke design.  It has worked miracles
here.  As I mentioned in an earlier post I went straight to the 3 section
GM3SEK choke, in fact two of them, one at each end of the coax section.
Works a treat.  I can't speak highly enough of the KPA500/KAT500
combination.

73 Stephen G4SJP


On 15 January 2014 15:59, Ray Coles raycole...@gmail.com wrote:

 I am pleased to relate that I seem to have finally nailed this problem, and
 I think many of those who gave me helpful advice and the Elecraft design
 team will be interested in learning what the final diagnosis and cure
 turned
 out to be. A quick recap: About 2 months ago, operating at about 75W into
 my
 trusty OCFD, the KAT500, KPA500 and K3 SWR readings shot up into the red
 and
 all DX fun ended abruptly. The problem remained, so I started looking for
 the culprit: I pruned tree branches that were touching the antenna after a
 recent storm. No joy. I replaced my 300W 4:1 balun at the end of my RG58
 buried coax feeder with a 1KW unit. No Joy. I replaced the buried RG58
 feeder with UR8 which took a new route, avoiding burial. No Joy. I dropped
 the antenna and replaced the 300ohm twin feeder from the balun to the T
 piece, the T piece itself and the antenna wire and dog bones. No joy. At
 this point I consulted the Reflector Oracle, and the most common response
 was common mode current on the feeder caused by OCFD unbalance. I did
 research and decided to build the renowned GM3SEK choke balun. I chose the
 mid range version which covers broadly 5-14MHz and installed it just south
 of my 4:1 balun at the North end of the feeder. No Joy. Further ideas from
 reflector pundits suggested that it might still be common mode, but coupled
 from the antenna into the feeder where my GM3SEK choke wouldn't help.

 Fortunately I had bought enough Fair Rite oval cores to build all three
 (Lo/Mid/Hi) balun designs, so in a final roll of the dice I built the two
 core Hi Band balun and installed it in the Shack next to my rig. The hi
 band
 version has a fairly flat impedance curve and reaches down to 7MHz and up
 to
 30MHz. IT WORKED! I have run 100W on all the bands from 40m to 10m and I
 have seen no run away SWR readings. My 25W tune value stays rock solid. As
 a
 final push-my luck step I turned the KPA500 to operate and ran 400W SSB. No
 Sweat! All of these things were no-nos yesterday.

 The final diagnosis is as follows: Some simple fault perhaps a connector or
 a crimp termination caused the first occurrence. I then compounded the
 problem by replacing my buried RG58 with an unburied and, I now see, a more
 parallel routed feeder which locked the problem in via antenna coupled
 common-mode currents. This also explains the fact that I could keep
 operating provided I kept power below 40W. Some respondents felt there was
 a
 KAT problem which compounded the problem, I always felt that the problem
 lay
 outside the shack but that maybe, just maybe, the KAT might be a bit
 sensitive to the problem. The only thing I would ask the Elecraft design
 team to investigate is whether the SWR circuitry has to respond to the
 common mode currents as it does. Probably not a firmware issue though!
 Thanks to the many people who made so many helpful suggestions.  E Pluribus
 Unum!



 Ray Coles, C.Eng. M0XDL

 10 Littlemoor Road,

 Weymouth DT3 6AA

 Tel: +44 (0) 1305 833699

 Mob: 07831 516517







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[Elecraft] K3/KPA500/KAT500 + ocf dipole

[David Cutter]

I happen to think that the K line and the off-centre-fed dipole make for an 
ideal compact station, particularly for those with very restricted land on 
which to put just one aerial.  As you have concluded, common mode current 
must be conquered and I think the GM3SEK chokes are ideal where weight is 
not a factor, eg on the ground and in the shack.  I built one in a 
weather-proof box with the LF version and the HF version all in together for 
a very neat solution.


Your problems were mainly with transmit, but these chokes also work on 
receive keeping noise off the coax which would otherwise creep right inside 
the radio.


As others have said, you need a choke at the feed point after the balun and 
others down the line depending on your layout.  A feeder that does not drop 
vertically from the aerial induces further cmc onto the coax.  Another good 
and easy thing to do is ground the coax shield before it enters the house, 
but not everyone can do that, so a choke at the radio does the job.


DJ0IP/NJ0IP is putting data on his website from a very large number of 
measurements on various combinations of ocf dipoles to show which chokes and 
baluns work best.  His project is not yet finished but it is the most 
comprehensive set of measurements I have seen on practical aerials.


David
G3UNA



...the most common response

was common mode current on the feeder caused by OCFD unbalance. I did
research and decided to build the renowned GM3SEK choke balun. I chose the
mid range version which covers broadly 5-14MHz and installed it just south
of my 4:1 balun at the North end of the feeder. No Joy. Further ideas from
reflector pundits suggested that it might still be common mode, but 
coupled

from the antenna into the feeder where my GM3SEK choke wouldn't help.

Fortunately I had bought enough Fair Rite oval cores to build all three
(Lo/Mid/Hi) balun designs, so in a final roll of the dice I built the two
core Hi Band balun and installed it in the Shack next to my rig. The hi 
band
version has a fairly flat impedance curve and reaches down to 7MHz and up 
to

30MHz. IT WORKED! I have run 100W on all the bands from 40m to 10m and I
have seen no run away SWR readings. My 25W tune value stays rock solid. As 
a
final push-my luck step I turned the KPA500 to operate and ran 400W SSB. 
No

Sweat! All of these things were no-nos yesterday.




Ray Coles, C.Eng. M0XDL

10 Littlemoor Road,

Weymouth DT3 6AA

Tel: +44 (0) 1305 833699

Mob: 07831 516517 



---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection 
is active.
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[Elecraft] K3/KPA500/KAT500 SWR problem Update2

[Ray Coles]

Buck K4IA casts aspersions on the OCF Dipole by saying that it Is
inherently unbalanced; but although the antenna is geometrically
asymmetric, it is not inherently unbalanced as far as the feeding is
concerned. See W8JI paper on the subject which shows that the standing wave
pattern across the dipole OCF antenna is exactly the same as a center-fed
version. The main thing that changes is the feed impedance.

Having said that, I have responded to all who suggest that common-mode
currents on my feeder could be my problem by making myself what is often
referred to as the finest and most versatile common mode choke balun, as
described by GM3SEK. Yesterday I completed it and installed it just South of
my 4:1 Balun under the antenna feed point (I made the mid band version, and
used all the right Ferrites and winding arrangements). I really believed
this would fix my problem (which mainly affected 40-14m), but it didn't
unfortunately.  If anything, my problem seemed worse. My next step will be
to move it from the feedpoint to the shack entry, because I am worried that
since replacing and re-routing my coax feeder I may have exposed it to
closer coupling to the antenna (it's now more parallel and unburied). I hope
Reflector readers are not getting too bored with my problems and attempts to
overcome them. I am still driven by the 10 months I had using my OCF and
Elecraft rig on all bands from 80-6meters and working lots of DX!   

 

Ray Coles, C.Eng. M0XDL

10 Littlemoor Road,

Weymouth DT3 6AA

Tel: +44 (0) 1305 833699

Mob: 07831 516517

 

 

 

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Re: [Elecraft] K3/KPA500/KAT500 SWR problem Update2

[Vic Rosenthal K2VCO]

Depending on the location of the feedpoint, the currents may be balanced 
even if the antenna is asymmetrical. Consider the end-fed Zepp antenna 
in which there is a tiny or non-existent horizontal section on one side 
and a multiple of half-waves on the other.


Of course, if one side of the antenna is lower than the other or closer 
to conducting objects, the theoretical balance will not be obtained.


An additional problem, even if the antenna is center-fed, is that the 
feedline must come away from the antenna at a 90 degree angle from the 
wires for some distance. Otherwise, the feedline will pick up RF that 
was radiated from the antenna, in common mode. I suspect that pick up of 
radiated RF is more likely with an OCF antenna.


A choke/balun at the feedpoint will force the feedline currents to be 
balanced even if the antenna currents aren't. But if RF that is radiated 
by the antenna is being picked up on the feedline (e.g., on the outside 
of a coax line or on a balanced line in common mode) then you will also 
need a choke at the entry to the shack.



On 1/10/2014 3:04 AM, Ray Coles wrote:

Buck K4IA casts aspersions on the OCF Dipole by saying that it Is
inherently unbalanced; but although the antenna is geometrically
asymmetric, it is not inherently unbalanced as far as the feeding is
concerned. See W8JI paper on the subject which shows that the standing wave
pattern across the dipole OCF antenna is exactly the same as a center-fed
version. The main thing that changes is the feed impedance.

Having said that, I have responded to all who suggest that common-mode
currents on my feeder could be my problem by making myself what is often
referred to as the finest and most versatile common mode choke balun, as
described by GM3SEK. Yesterday I completed it and installed it just South of
my 4:1 Balun under the antenna feed point (I made the mid band version, and
used all the right Ferrites and winding arrangements). I really believed
this would fix my problem (which mainly affected 40-14m), but it didn't
unfortunately.  If anything, my problem seemed worse. My next step will be
to move it from the feedpoint to the shack entry, because I am worried that
since replacing and re-routing my coax feeder I may have exposed it to
closer coupling to the antenna (it's now more parallel and unburied). I hope
Reflector readers are not getting too bored with my problems and attempts to
overcome them. I am still driven by the 10 months I had using my OCF and
Elecraft rig on all bands from 80-6meters and working lots of DX!



Ray Coles, C.Eng. M0XDL

10 Littlemoor Road,

Weymouth DT3 6AA

Tel: +44 (0) 1305 833699

Mob: 07831 516517


--
73,

Vic, K2VCO

Fresno CA

http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/

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[Elecraft] K3/KPA500/KAT500 SWR problem UPDATE

[Ray Coles]

As the original poster under this heading I figured you might be interested
to know what I have achieved so far, even though I am not yet ready to send
the white smoke up the chimney.  Briefly, my problem was that my KAT500
would go into uncommanded tunes during a QSO, usually on digital modes.The
practical result was that I had to restrict TX power to less than 40Watts on
most bands to avoid a burst from the Chicago Piano in the KAT. I had assumed
an antenna/feeder problem and had changed every last connector, wire, balun
and insulator in my system before asking for help from the Reflector Brains
Trust. All of the other people who subsequently reported a similar problem
made me feel a little better, and I also received a lot of diagnoses and
practical advice which I have followed or will follow soon. One of the
simplest was from Ron WB4OOA: Carry out a K3 Gain Calibration via the K3
Utility (I had to download the latest Utility version to make this work
properly) then Install the KAT500 V1.42 Beta (Not quite as easy as it
sounds). After this things were better, and my power setting on the K3
always appeared on the KPA500 wattmeter. I could now operate at higher power
on some bands but had to stay below 40W on 40m. I had also adjusted the per
band retune trigger SWRs upwards via the KAT500 Utility which also helped a
little.

I remain convinced though, that the basic trigger problem lies with the
antenna system (an OCF multiband dipole) and I am continuing to work on this
aspect using my analyser. Why it should have suddenly kicked off after many
months of solid performance, and why changing everything hasn't yet cured it
remains a mystery. My next steps are to try a choke balun on the feeder
(parts now to hand) and to prune the antenna to get a better resonance on
the bands of interest. Now if only this darn rain would stop! (I still think
some tweaking of the KAT500 software might also help!)

 

Ray Coles, C.Eng. M0XDL

10 Littlemoor Road,

Weymouth DT3 6AA

Tel: +44 (0) 1305 833699

Mob: 07831 516517

 

 

 

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Re: [Elecraft] K3/KPA500/KAT500 SWR problem UPDATE

[Stephen Prior]

Ray,

Very interesting stuff, thanks.  As the user of an off-center fed doublet
myself, I was initially very nervous of running more than my usual 100W.
As it happened, I need not have worried, as I have never experienced the
problems you describe with the arrival of the KPA/KAT500.  The reason may
well be the choking I use on the doublet, and I suspect that you are on the
right track here.  I took a belt and braces approach to this a year or so
ago.  I have a drop of about 20 feet of 300 ohm 'balanced' feeder whereupon
a conversion to heavy duty coax is made via a choke balun based upon
GM3SEK's work - using the recommended ferrites, combining three different
chokes in series to cover the whole of the HF range.  It's very heavy and
physically quite large so I have it mounted in a box on a flat roof about
20 feet above the operating position.  The coax (short run) goes down to
the shack and through another 3 section choke balun on the back of the
amplifier.

GM3SEK's article is well worth a careful read.  Miscellaneous bits of
ferrite are likely to do nothing, and the combination of coaxial coils and
ferrite in Ian's design works extremely well in my experience.  An added
bonus was that it also reduced my local noise floor considerably.

http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek/in-prac/index.htm#1005

...is all you need.  In the UK you can get the ferrites from  Farnell in a
couple of days although they are quite expensive.  Accept no imitations!

73 Stephen G4SJP




On 8 January 2014 10:57, Ray Coles raycole...@gmail.com wrote:

 As the original poster under this heading I figured you might be interested
 to know what I have achieved so far, even though I am not yet ready to send
 the white smoke up the chimney.  Briefly, my problem was that my KAT500
 would go into uncommanded tunes during a QSO, usually on digital modes.The
 practical result was that I had to restrict TX power to less than 40Watts
 on
 most bands to avoid a burst from the Chicago Piano in the KAT. I had
 assumed
 an antenna/feeder problem and had changed every last connector, wire, balun
 and insulator in my system before asking for help from the Reflector Brains
 Trust. All of the other people who subsequently reported a similar problem
 made me feel a little better, and I also received a lot of diagnoses and
 practical advice which I have followed or will follow soon. One of the
 simplest was from Ron WB4OOA: Carry out a K3 Gain Calibration via the K3
 Utility (I had to download the latest Utility version to make this work
 properly) then Install the KAT500 V1.42 Beta (Not quite as easy as it
 sounds). After this things were better, and my power setting on the K3
 always appeared on the KPA500 wattmeter. I could now operate at higher
 power
 on some bands but had to stay below 40W on 40m. I had also adjusted the per
 band retune trigger SWRs upwards via the KAT500 Utility which also helped a
 little.

 I remain convinced though, that the basic trigger problem lies with the
 antenna system (an OCF multiband dipole) and I am continuing to work on
 this
 aspect using my analyser. Why it should have suddenly kicked off after many
 months of solid performance, and why changing everything hasn't yet cured
 it
 remains a mystery. My next steps are to try a choke balun on the feeder
 (parts now to hand) and to prune the antenna to get a better resonance on
 the bands of interest. Now if only this darn rain would stop! (I still
 think
 some tweaking of the KAT500 software might also help!)



 Ray Coles, C.Eng. M0XDL

 10 Littlemoor Road,

 Weymouth DT3 6AA

 Tel: +44 (0) 1305 833699

 Mob: 07831 516517







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Re: [Elecraft] K3/KPA500/KAT500 SWR problem UPDATE

[Bill W2BLC]

I don't believe it is an antenna or stray RF problem.

I have memorized tuner settings for the entire 75 meter band at 20 kc 
steps. The K-Line is set up per instructions (although the manual 
supplied by Elecraft is a little thin).


When I QSY, the KAT500 will click to a memory when I transmit (either by 
using TUNE on the K3 or PTT and start talking). That is what I expect.


What happens next is not expected! While in QSO, the KAT500 will 
suddenly retune. Normally, this retune will be a click or two (seeking a 
known memory) and a light show on the KPA500 - followed by the tuner 
settling down and the QSO continues. This is random and quite 
disconcerting - sometimes happening several times during a single QSO.


A great amount of effort has been expended in checking and rechecking 
the entire antenna system. I am using a normal dipole for 75 meters with 
proper feedlines/connectors. There were no problems noted (not that I 
expected any).


When using the same antenna system on other rigs - there have been NO 
similar incidents to what the KAT500 does. Once the tuning or tune 
memory is selected - there is no further tuner activity during a QSO. As 
it should be.


Having learned how to do a trace report of the KAT500's tuning activity, 
I am able to see what the tuner is doing when this happens. In simple 
terms, it gets lost mid-QSO and the tuner activity noted is an attempt 
to retune to the frequency it is sensing that frequency will not be what 
your VFO is showing. When it settles back down, it will once again be 
tuned to your current XMIT frequency. For some reason, the KAT500 senses 
an incorrect XMIT frequency during the QSO.


I have been informed that a solution is being worked on by Elecraft.

Bill W2BLC  K-Line(?)




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Re: [Elecraft] K3/KPA500/KAT500 SWR problem UPDATE

[Gary Gregory]

If I may, I would like to weigh jn here wjth what I have been using.

I put up an OCF of 137ft approximately (memory issue) with the feed point
up about 37ft. I am set at 80/20  offset and I am using the dual core balun
from Balun Designs (usual denials...yada yada yada) and I have very few
issues with rf feedback and the k-line has behaved well.
There are issues with interferance from time to time on the portable TV
inside the motorhome so recently I added some snap on ferrite beads where I
thought they wouod work and this seems to have largely cleaned the station
up.
When connecting to ann80m dipole, all the rf issues disappear. The OCF
seems to work better on all bands over the 80m dipole although this is not
a scientific way to do this, however, the OCF is definately quieter on all
bands and I am happy with it.
73
Gary
On 08/01/2014 10:31 PM, Stephen Prior eastbrantw...@gmail.com wrote:

 Ray,

 Very interesting stuff, thanks.  As the user of an off-center fed doublet
 myself, I was initially very nervous of running more than my usual 100W.
 As it happened, I need not have worried, as I have never experienced the
 problems you describe with the arrival of the KPA/KAT500.  The reason may
 well be the choking I use on the doublet, and I suspect that you are on the
 right track here.  I took a belt and braces approach to this a year or so
 ago.  I have a drop of about 20 feet of 300 ohm 'balanced' feeder whereupon
 a conversion to heavy duty coax is made via a choke balun based upon
 GM3SEK's work - using the recommended ferrites, combining three different
 chokes in series to cover the whole of the HF range.  It's very heavy and
 physically quite large so I have it mounted in a box on a flat roof about
 20 feet above the operating position.  The coax (short run) goes down to
 the shack and through another 3 section choke balun on the back of the
 amplifier.

 GM3SEK's article is well worth a careful read.  Miscellaneous bits of
 ferrite are likely to do nothing, and the combination of coaxial coils and
 ferrite in Ian's design works extremely well in my experience.  An added
 bonus was that it also reduced my local noise floor considerably.

 http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek/in-prac/index.htm#1005

 ...is all you need.  In the UK you can get the ferrites from  Farnell in a
 couple of days although they are quite expensive.  Accept no imitations!

 73 Stephen G4SJP




 On 8 January 2014 10:57, Ray Coles raycole...@gmail.com wrote:

  As the original poster under this heading I figured you might be
 interested
  to know what I have achieved so far, even though I am not yet ready to
 send
  the white smoke up the chimney.  Briefly, my problem was that my KAT500
  would go into uncommanded tunes during a QSO, usually on digital
 modes.The
  practical result was that I had to restrict TX power to less than 40Watts
  on
  most bands to avoid a burst from the Chicago Piano in the KAT. I had
  assumed
  an antenna/feeder problem and had changed every last connector, wire,
 balun
  and insulator in my system before asking for help from the Reflector
 Brains
  Trust. All of the other people who subsequently reported a similar
 problem
  made me feel a little better, and I also received a lot of diagnoses and
  practical advice which I have followed or will follow soon. One of the
  simplest was from Ron WB4OOA: Carry out a K3 Gain Calibration via the K3
  Utility (I had to download the latest Utility version to make this work
  properly) then Install the KAT500 V1.42 Beta (Not quite as easy as it
  sounds). After this things were better, and my power setting on the K3
  always appeared on the KPA500 wattmeter. I could now operate at higher
  power
  on some bands but had to stay below 40W on 40m. I had also adjusted the
 per
  band retune trigger SWRs upwards via the KAT500 Utility which also
 helped a
  little.
 
  I remain convinced though, that the basic trigger problem lies with the
  antenna system (an OCF multiband dipole) and I am continuing to work on
  this
  aspect using my analyser. Why it should have suddenly kicked off after
 many
  months of solid performance, and why changing everything hasn't yet cured
  it
  remains a mystery. My next steps are to try a choke balun on the feeder
  (parts now to hand) and to prune the antenna to get a better resonance on
  the bands of interest. Now if only this darn rain would stop! (I still
  think
  some tweaking of the KAT500 software might also help!)
 
 
 
  Ray Coles, C.Eng. M0XDL
 
  10 Littlemoor Road,
 
  Weymouth DT3 6AA
 
  Tel: +44 (0) 1305 833699
 
  Mob: 07831 516517
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3/KPA500/KAT500 SWR problem UPDATE

[Buck - k4ia]

An OCF is an unbalanced antenna and it must have a choke to keep RF off 
the feed line into the shack.  I use about ten turns of coax on a 4 inch 
PVC pipe right outside the wall where the feed comes into the house.  It 
might be more or less, I am not at home to look. You can research it.  
Other choke baluns would help, if they present a high enough impedance.


That seems to have cured RFI problems for me but I have occasionally 
felt like I needed more isolation.  Many people have advised me to get 
rid of the OCF and go with something balanced but it suits my multi-band 
needs for now.


I am pretty sure RF on the feed line would cause the tuning circuits in 
the KAT to act crazy.  I'll leave that one for the Elecraft gurus to 
answer.


Buck
k4ia

On 1/8/2014 5:57 AM, Ray Coles wrote:

As the original poster under this heading I figured you might be interested
to know what I have achieved so far, even though I am not yet ready to send
the white smoke up the chimney.  Briefly, my problem was that my KAT500
would go into uncommanded tunes during a QSO, usually on digital modes.The
practical result was that I had to restrict TX power to less than 40Watts on
most bands to avoid a burst from the Chicago Piano in the KAT. I had assumed
an antenna/feeder problem and had changed every last connector, wire, balun
and insulator in my system before asking for help from the Reflector Brains
Trust. All of the other people who subsequently reported a similar problem
made me feel a little better, and I also received a lot of diagnoses and
practical advice which I have followed or will follow soon. One of the
simplest was from Ron WB4OOA: Carry out a K3 Gain Calibration via the K3
Utility (I had to download the latest Utility version to make this work
properly) then Install the KAT500 V1.42 Beta (Not quite as easy as it
sounds). After this things were better, and my power setting on the K3
always appeared on the KPA500 wattmeter. I could now operate at higher power
on some bands but had to stay below 40W on 40m. I had also adjusted the per
band retune trigger SWRs upwards via the KAT500 Utility which also helped a
little.

I remain convinced though, that the basic trigger problem lies with the
antenna system (an OCF multiband dipole) and I am continuing to work on this
aspect using my analyser. Why it should have suddenly kicked off after many
months of solid performance, and why changing everything hasn't yet cured it
remains a mystery. My next steps are to try a choke balun on the feeder
(parts now to hand) and to prune the antenna to get a better resonance on
the bands of interest. Now if only this darn rain would stop! (I still think
some tweaking of the KAT500 software might also help!)

  


Ray Coles, C.Eng. M0XDL

10 Littlemoor Road,

Weymouth DT3 6AA

Tel: +44 (0) 1305 833699

Mob: 07831 516517

  

  

  


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Re: [Elecraft] K3/KPA500/KAT500 SWR problem UPDATE

[Bill W2BLC]

I have used OCF antennas in the past and currently have on up that is 
fed with 600 ohm line and a balun for the coax transition to come in the 
house. It is a fine all band - 160-10 - antenna causing no RF problems 
in my shack. Although I rarely use this antenna, I hooked it up today 
and find the KAT500 misbehaves with this antenna the same as it does 
with a proper dipole. No joy!


The OCF does, however, work well with my other auto-tune rigs. No 
hiccups noted.


Bill W2BLC K-Line(?)


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Re: [Elecraft] K3/KPA500/KAT500 SWR problem UPDATE

[Tom]

If you are working the bands 30m and below and have the room you can
use inverted V antennas that all have the same feed point.  The power
will be distributed to the the antenna that is resonent at the
transmit frequency.

Until I was able to get room and funds for rotable antennas and
longer wire antennas I used inverted V antennas fed from the same
point.



On Wed, 08 Jan 2014 15:45:48 -0500, you wrote:

An OCF is an unbalanced antenna and it must have a choke to keep RF off 
the feed line into the shack.  I use about ten turns of coax on a 4 inch 
PVC pipe right outside the wall where the feed comes into the house.  It 
might be more or less, I am not at home to look. You can research it.  
Other choke baluns would help, if they present a high enough impedance.

That seems to have cured RFI problems for me but I have occasionally 
felt like I needed more isolation.  Many people have advised me to get 
rid of the OCF and go with something balanced but it suits my multi-band 
needs for now.

I am pretty sure RF on the feed line would cause the tuning circuits in 
the KAT to act crazy.  I'll leave that one for the Elecraft gurus to 
answer.

Buck
k4ia

On 1/8/2014 5:57 AM, Ray Coles wrote:
 As the original poster under this heading I figured you might be interested
 to know what I have achieved so far, even though I am not yet ready to send
 the white smoke up the chimney.  Briefly, my problem was that my KAT500
 would go into uncommanded tunes during a QSO, usually on digital modes.The
 practical result was that I had to restrict TX power to less than 40Watts on
 most bands to avoid a burst from the Chicago Piano in the KAT. I had assumed
 an antenna/feeder problem and had changed every last connector, wire, balun
 and insulator in my system before asking for help from the Reflector Brains
 Trust. All of the other people who subsequently reported a similar problem
 made me feel a little better, and I also received a lot of diagnoses and
 practical advice which I have followed or will follow soon. One of the
 simplest was from Ron WB4OOA: Carry out a K3 Gain Calibration via the K3
 Utility (I had to download the latest Utility version to make this work
 properly) then Install the KAT500 V1.42 Beta (Not quite as easy as it
 sounds). After this things were better, and my power setting on the K3
 always appeared on the KPA500 wattmeter. I could now operate at higher power
 on some bands but had to stay below 40W on 40m. I had also adjusted the per
 band retune trigger SWRs upwards via the KAT500 Utility which also helped a
 little.

 I remain convinced though, that the basic trigger problem lies with the
 antenna system (an OCF multiband dipole) and I am continuing to work on this
 aspect using my analyser. Why it should have suddenly kicked off after many
 months of solid performance, and why changing everything hasn't yet cured it
 remains a mystery. My next steps are to try a choke balun on the feeder
 (parts now to hand) and to prune the antenna to get a better resonance on
 the bands of interest. Now if only this darn rain would stop! (I still think
 some tweaking of the KAT500 software might also help!)

   

 Ray Coles, C.Eng. M0XDL

 10 Littlemoor Road,

 Weymouth DT3 6AA

 Tel: +44 (0) 1305 833699

 Mob: 07831 516517

   

   

   

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Re: [Elecraft] K3/KPA500/KAT500 SWR problem

[Phil Debbie Salas]

I haven’t had this problem.  However, in addition to Igor’s thoughts on a high 
reflected signal, here is another thought.  A strong signal (like you can have 
in contest environment and/or multi-transmitter/multi-antenna set-up) could be 
counted by the KAT500 frequency counter resulting in the KAT500 jumping to a 
different memorized frequency setting.  I don’t know what the threshold 
sensitivity of the KAT500 counter is, but incoming signals can be very high 
under some conditions.  I wonder if disabling the internal KAT500 frequency 
counter might be something to try – especially when band data is provided by 
the auxbus cable.

Phil – AD5X

“It may be not relevant to this particular case but another reason for weird 
KAT500 behavior can be strong interfering signal of a neighbor or nearby 
broadcasting station. I did run into situations where such signals induced up 
to 5 volts into low band antenna. Then KAT500 counts that signal as reflected 
and thinks that SWR is very high. One may try to connect broadband spectrum 
analyzer to the antenna and see what is going on. If it is broadcasting signal 
well below ham bands then high pass filter between the tuner and antenna can 
help.73, Igor UA9CDC”
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[Elecraft] K3/KPA500/KAT500 SWR problem

[Ray Coles]

As the original poster of this problem topic I have been transfixed by the 
subsequent correspondence on the matter. I am still assuming guilt for the 
original trigger, but I guess there may be a factor in the KAT 500 algorithms 
that may have aided and abetted my gremlin! My next move will be to revisit my 
rig grounding hook up (I have a pang of guilt. In that area too!). 
Unfortunately I am away from my shack at present on family festivity business, 
but I'll get right on it in a few days time, and post the result if I manage 
any much longed for breakthroughs! Meanwhile, thanks to everyone, and of course 
to the Elecraft team for picking up on this issue.
HNY and 73
Ray M0XDL

Sent from my iPhone
Ray Coles CEng M0XDL
10 Littlemoor Road,
Weymouth DT3 6AA
United Kingdom
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Re: [Elecraft] K3/KPA500/KAT500 SWR problem

[Bill W2BLC]

Was on 75 this morning and carefully monitoring what is going on with 
the tuner. I am running 100 Watts through the KAT500 - the amp is on 
standby until this gets fixed. No smoke wanted here hihihi.


Results:  Several times during QSO the tuner would click and make noises 
- this while on MANUAL. No changes noted on any meters - and I monitor 
output from the K3 and before the antenna. No unusual deflections noted.


Then comes the real sadness:  No one noticed that I wasn't running the 
amp! Not a single comment - negative about my signal. Makes me stop and 
think about making some near future changes in the equipment lineup. I 
think this problem may have been a good wake up call on what I really 
need. Odd the lessons we take away from conversations on the reflector.


Bill W2BLC K-Line



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Re: [Elecraft] K3/KPA500/KAT500 SWR problem

[Dick Dievendorff]

Thanks, Ray.

We think there are several issues. 

At least some of these reported problems have been resolved by changes to
the antenna system (connectors, baluns, and the antenna itself).
If there is flashover or heat-related impedance change, the KAT500 measures
a changed SWR and reacts by interrupting the key line and retuning (in mode
Auto) .

Some cases are related to antennas whose unmatched SWR is outside the
KAT500's spec of 10:1 at 600 watts, 3:1 SWR at 1000 watts.  If the antenna
system (before matching) exceeds these limits, often a match can be found,
but this match shouldn't be used at power above our specified threshold.
More heat is dissipated by the tuner's components.  If this gets way out of
hand the antenna tuner does fault, which bypasses the ATU, the amplifier key
line is interrupted, and the ATU red FAULT LED is illuminated.  We log these
faults and you can see them in your KAT500 Utility fault log display. The
fault description is along the lines of power too high for unmatched SWR'.

And I believe in some cases the frequency counter is counting a signal other
than the primary transmitter RF signal.  I don't have much control where the
pulses we count come from, but I might be able to better qualify the use of
that count.  If the frequency count is seen as a band change, the ATU can
change antennas.

We're digging into all these, and there will be firmware change to address
those we can fix in firmware.

I am not asserting that every one of these observations comes from antenna
system problems.  But some do.  If your specific problem is due to a coax
connector, balun, or antenna that changes impedance at high power, the
changes I make in firmware aren't going to fix that problem.

73 de Dick, K6KR

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Ray Coles
Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 5:29 AM
To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] K3/KPA500/KAT500 SWR problem

As the original poster of this problem topic I have been transfixed by the
subsequent correspondence on the matter. I am still assuming guilt for the
original trigger, but I guess there may be a factor in the KAT 500
algorithms that may have aided and abetted my gremlin! My next move will be
to revisit my rig grounding hook up (I have a pang of guilt. In that area
too!). Unfortunately I am away from my shack at present on family festivity
business, but I'll get right on it in a few days time, and post the result
if I manage any much longed for breakthroughs! Meanwhile, thanks to
everyone, and of course to the Elecraft team for picking up on this issue.
HNY and 73
Ray M0XDL

Sent from my iPhone
Ray Coles CEng M0XDL
10 Littlemoor Road,
Weymouth DT3 6AA
United Kingdom
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Re: [Elecraft] K3/KPA500/KAT500 SWR problem

[Richard Solomon]

What concerns me about all this talk of Reflected Power, local High
Power Stations, etc., is that none of the other users of Automatic
Antenna Tuners (non-Elecraft) have reported similar problems.

I hope the issue can be corrected via firmware. We will be awaiting
the results of their studies.

73 es HNY, Dick, W1KSZ




On 12/31/2013 5:41 AM, Phil  Debbie Salas wrote:

I haven’t had this problem.  However, in addition to Igor’s thoughts on a high 
reflected signal, here is another thought.  A strong signal (like you can have 
in contest environment and/or multi-transmitter/multi-antenna set-up) could be 
counted by the KAT500 frequency counter resulting in the KAT500 jumping to a 
different memorized frequency setting.  I don’t know what the threshold 
sensitivity of the KAT500 counter is, but incoming signals can be very high 
under some conditions.  I wonder if disabling the internal KAT500 frequency 
counter might be something to try – especially when band data is provided by 
the auxbus cable.

Phil – AD5X

“It may be not relevant to this particular case but another reason for weird 
KAT500 behavior can be strong interfering signal of a neighbor or nearby 
broadcasting station. I did run into situations where such signals induced up 
to 5 volts into low band antenna. Then KAT500 counts that signal as reflected 
and thinks that SWR is very high. One may try to connect broadband spectrum 
analyzer to the antenna and see what is going on. If it is broadcasting signal 
well below ham bands then high pass filter between the tuner and antenna can 
help.73, Igor UA9CDC”
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Re: [Elecraft] K3/KPA500/KAT500 SWR problem

[ab2tc]

Hi,

Are you in AUTO mode when this is happening? I found it wise to switch to
manual mode when finishing the quick tune after a QSY. Before I got into
that habit this was happening a number of times. I am running barefoot with
no internal tuner in the K3 so those are not a factor. The MFJ tuner I was
using before I got the KAT500 also had this problem so it's not unique to
the KAT500. For the MFJ I ran a wire out to the remotely located tuner
connected to the TUNE button so I could run it in manual (really
semiautomatic) mode.

AB2TC - Knut


Bill W2BLC wrote
 There is a lot of mention regarding common mode chokes, RF grounding, 
 copper to aluminum connections, etc. Speaking only of my station, I 
 experienced no similar automatic tuner problems with equipment other 
 than the KAT500. I suspect other ops have similar experiences.
 
 My typical experience using the tuner is QSY - a two second TUNE - and 
 the KAT knows where and what to do. Everything is just fine - until in 
 the middle of the QSO the tuner goes berserk and does a retune (a little 
 noisy). If I talk through it - all will go back to normal in a few 
 seconds. Disconcerting to say the least.
 
 I do not know if this problem is damaging to the KAP500 and/or the 
 KPA500. Hence, I am back to running 100 Watts until this is corrected - 
 changing some coax connections and using the K3's internal tuner.  Thus 
 removing the devices from the lineup.
 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3/KPA500/KAT500 SWR problem

[steve]

Just a thought, how about posting what firmware revision you have in the 
KAT500 and or KPA500 when you post about this problem.

Steve WB5OMP


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Re: [Elecraft] K3/KPA500/KAT500 SWR Problem

[n8ag]

I've experienced the same issues others are reporting with the KAT500. The 
problem is somewhat intermittent. However, it seemed to happen more frequently 
after going to the 1.41 firmware. After reading one of Dick's posts, I checked 
the Fault Table just to see what it had in it. I'm seeing the following event 
logged numerous times.

03 - VFWD above relay hotswitch limit  F 50376 VFWD 1411 VRFL 9 VSWR 1.08 VSWRB 
2.74

It there some way to decode this?

73,
Dave N8AG
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Re: [Elecraft] K3/KPA500/KAT500 SWR Problem

[Dick Dievendorff]

Yes. You were transmitting on 50.376 MHz.  The forward power was measured at
1411, which is a bit north of 300 watts.  

It appears that the amplifier key line is not being interrupted by the
KAT500.  We can hot switch KAT500 relays at up to 100 watts, but not higher.

73 de Dick, K6KR



-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of n...@comcast.net
Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 10:34 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3/KPA500/KAT500 SWR Problem

I've experienced the same issues others are reporting with the KAT500. The
problem is somewhat intermittent. However, it seemed to happen more
frequently after going to the 1.41 firmware. After reading one of Dick's
posts, I checked the Fault Table just to see what it had in it. I'm seeing
the following event logged numerous times.

03 - VFWD above relay hotswitch limit  F 50376 VFWD 1411 VRFL 9 VSWR 1.08
VSWRB 2.74

It there some way to decode this?

73,
Dave N8AG
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Re: [Elecraft] K3/KPA500/KAT500 SWR problem

[Jeffrey Otterson]

I reported this problem to support back in February, and though my question
was responded to, it was never really answered -- I've been living with the
problem since..,  I'm sure support can look at the case, it was around
February 7 of this year.

Before I switched to KPA500/KAT500, I was running 12-1400 watts PEP from a
SB-220 through a Drake MN-2700 tuner, with never an issue, so I don't think
the problem is arcing connectors, balun, coax, antennas.  Also the raw VSWR
on my 75M antenna is about 2:1, maybe a bit better. (The K3 says 2:1, the
LP-100A, 1.98:1), so I don't think the problem is brought on by excessive
SWR...

Jeff
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Re: [Elecraft] K3/KPA500/KAT500 SWR problem

[Bill W2BLC]

Same boat here. I gave up my PalStar tuner and a single 3-500 amp that 
worked flawlessly for the KAT500 and KPA500. Getting older, I wanted 
seamless operation from the PTT to the antenna. I still am wanting that 
- so we will see what the coming changes bring us. Meantime, I am 
running 100 Watts and am direct from antenna to the K3 - took the other 
stuff out of line. Sad part is that no one noticed the lack of power.


Happy New Year!

Bill W2BLC K-Line(?)

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Re: [Elecraft] K3/KPA500/KAT500 SWR problem

[Bruce Beford]

 Sad part is that no one noticed the lack of power.
 
What's so sad about that? 8-)
The amp should only be used when absolutely needed...
73 es HNY,
Bruce, N1RX
 

 

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Re: [Elecraft] K3/KPA500/KAT500 SWR problem

[Bill Johnson]

Silence doesn't mean there are those of us who haven't had issues with other 
automatics.  I have had issues using other tuners, MFJ, Etc.  I still use an 
MFJ 998 external to the shack, and I have some issues with weather; rain, ice 
and snow with any tuner.  I did get MFJ to replace my first 998 after a 
yearlong hassle.  The replacement seems to be better. 

Using high power requires lots more care.  I know Dick D. will get some of this 
fixed for the K-Line in firmware, but the antenna, connectors and common 
current issues are our problems.  Running troublesome antenna setups can be 
hazardous at high power.  I have a couple of burned insulators to demonstrate 
the power of high power RF.  Antenna failure can happen.   I think it best to 
focus on the Elecraft equipment rather than get into a discussion of other 
brands as these are not at issue.  
73,
Bill
K9YEQ

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Richard Solomon
Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 9:05 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3/KPA500/KAT500 SWR problem

What concerns me about all this talk of Reflected Power, local High Power 
Stations, etc., is that none of the other users of Automatic Antenna Tuners 
(non-Elecraft) have reported similar problems.

I hope the issue can be corrected via firmware. We will be awaiting the results 
of their studies.

73 es HNY, Dick, W1KSZ




On 12/31/2013 5:41 AM, Phil  Debbie Salas wrote:
 I haven’t had this problem.  However, in addition to Igor’s thoughts on a 
 high reflected signal, here is another thought.  A strong signal (like you 
 can have in contest environment and/or multi-transmitter/multi-antenna 
 set-up) could be counted by the KAT500 frequency counter resulting in the 
 KAT500 jumping to a different memorized frequency setting.  I don’t know what 
 the threshold sensitivity of the KAT500 counter is, but incoming signals can 
 be very high under some conditions.  I wonder if disabling the internal 
 KAT500 frequency counter might be something to try – especially when band 
 data is provided by the auxbus cable.

 Phil – AD5X

 “It may be not relevant to this particular case but another reason for weird 
 KAT500 behavior can be strong interfering signal of a neighbor or nearby 
 broadcasting station. I did run into situations where such signals induced up 
 to 5 volts into low band antenna. Then KAT500 counts that signal as reflected 
 and thinks that SWR is very high. One may try to connect broadband spectrum 
 analyzer to the antenna and see what is going on. If it is broadcasting 
 signal well below ham bands then high pass filter between the tuner and 
 antenna can help.73, Igor UA9CDC”
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