Re: [Emc-users] CNC machining setup cards

[John Dammeyer]

> From: Karl Schmidt [mailto:k...@lrak.net]
> I got burned with electronic-CAD software - the software quit unless you
> signed up for their new expensive support
> package..
> 
> 
> I've been using FreeCAD - slowly getting better - steep learning curve,
but
> they can't pull the plug -- AND it runs on
> linux. The new adaptive clearing bit is nice. Working around bugs is part
of
> the deal.
> 
> 
> I think the only two packages that you can 'own' that run on linux are
synergy
> and perhaps Alibre CAM - haven't tried them.
> 
> 
There's no such thing as ALibreCAM anymore.  MecSoft pulled support and
stopped working with Alibre.  

I suspect because every new version of Alibre changes the AlibreCAD file
format so it can't be read by older versions.  Which means if you buy the
newest Alibre Atom for example and save a file it will be in Rev 26.  If I
want to load it with my Rev 25 I can't.

Compare that to the evil Microsoft and the ability to SaveAs a Word Document
in WORD 97 format from WORD 2010.

Now AlibreCAD Rev 26 can read Rev 25 files and save as Rev 26 but according
to Alibre if they didn't change the file format then no one would upgrade.

And no it doesn't run on Linux.I have FreeCAD on my WIN-10 system but I
find the user interface just as confusing as Fusion360.  Maybe we should
call it conFusion360.

And I still am able to use AlibreCAM (although not supposed to be able) on
my system with AlibreCAD.And yes, it still calls home for verification
that it's me.  
John




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Re: [Emc-users] CNC machining setup cards

[Karl Schmidt]

On 7/11/23 06:43PM, John Dammeyer wrote:



And the cost of the bait is very low compared to the number of fish they are catching 
with it.  Once you have several years of drawings (all essentially free) throwing an 
upgrade that now costs on ly a tiny bit, hardly anything,  but "Will enhance your 
user experience!"  is in the works.


There is still a big problem - the most expensive part of the software is your time learning to use it.  What if you get 
married to it, and they stop the free use deal? I'm still married to


I got burned with electronic-CAD software - the software quit unless you signed up for their new expensive support 
package..



I've been using FreeCAD - slowly getting better - steep learning curve, but they can't pull the plug -- AND it runs on 
linux. The new adaptive clearing bit is nice. Working around bugs is part of the deal.



I think the only two packages that you can 'own' that run on linux are synergy 
and perhaps Alibre CAM - haven't tried them.


--

Karl Schmidt  EMail k...@lrak.net
3209 West 9th Street  Ph (785) 841-3089
Lawrence, KS 66049

Today, the USA's only exports are propaganda and inflation.



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Re: [Emc-users] CNC machining setup cards

[Thaddeus Waldner]

I’m getting a lot of hanging with large sketches. I’ve had to force quit it 3-4 
times in two days of using it.

But yeah, performance on apple silicon is impressive. When it works.

Thaddeus Waldner
Newdale School
Elkton, SD 57026

From: Ron Buck 
Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2023 8:43:23 AM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] CNC machining setup cards

… chiming in on the native Apple Si version. The speed improvement is night and 
day difference. I’m on a M1 Max notebook and currently working with a large 
assembly imported from SW. Even small changes were getting slow enough to get 
up and stretch while it was thinking. No hint of even a pause so far with the 
insider release on anything.

Ron


> On Jul 12, 2023, at 4:08 AM, gene heskett  wrote:
>
> On 7/12/23 02:23, Chris Albertson wrote:
>>>> On Jul 11, 2023, at 5:42 PM, gene heskett  wrote:
>>>
>>> ... I'll bet real money that OpenSCAD is easier to learn.
>> Openscad is certainly easy for some simple things but impossible for others. 
>>  Try making a cordless power tool in OpenScad.
>> But in Fusion a power tool is used as an intermediate-level tutorial 
>> project.  The screenshot below is something a person could learn to make 
>> after some weeks of study.  I doubt anyone would even attempt it in 
>> OpenScad.   Then assuming you do make the OpenScad model, could you make 
>> changes in real-time as the client pointed out changed he would like
> You have an excellent point there Chris, were I to attempt that today, I 
> would probably be several weeks writing it for linuxcnc as that looks much 
> easier to do in a subtractive format. Either way, I at my age, would find it 
> difficult to make customer requested mods. 60 years younger with my better 
> memory then it would have been much easier.
>> ___
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>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett.
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
> - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/>
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] CNC machining setup cards

[Ron Buck]

… chiming in on the native Apple Si version. The speed improvement is night and 
day difference. I’m on a M1 Max notebook and currently working with a large 
assembly imported from SW. Even small changes were getting slow enough to get 
up and stretch while it was thinking. No hint of even a pause so far with the 
insider release on anything.

Ron


> On Jul 12, 2023, at 4:08 AM, gene heskett  wrote:
> 
> On 7/12/23 02:23, Chris Albertson wrote:
 On Jul 11, 2023, at 5:42 PM, gene heskett  wrote:
>>> 
>>> ... I'll bet real money that OpenSCAD is easier to learn.
>> Openscad is certainly easy for some simple things but impossible for others. 
>>  Try making a cordless power tool in OpenScad.
>> But in Fusion a power tool is used as an intermediate-level tutorial 
>> project.  The screenshot below is something a person could learn to make 
>> after some weeks of study.  I doubt anyone would even attempt it in 
>> OpenScad.   Then assuming you do make the OpenScad model, could you make 
>> changes in real-time as the client pointed out changed he would like
> You have an excellent point there Chris, were I to attempt that today, I 
> would probably be several weeks writing it for linuxcnc as that looks much 
> easier to do in a subtractive format. Either way, I at my age, would find it 
> difficult to make customer requested mods. 60 years younger with my better 
> memory then it would have been much easier.
>> ___
>> Emc-users mailing list
>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett.
> -- 
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
> - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] CNC machining setup cards

[gene heskett]

On 7/12/23 02:23, Chris Albertson wrote:




On Jul 11, 2023, at 5:42 PM, gene heskett  wrote:

... I'll bet real money that OpenSCAD is easier to learn.


Openscad is certainly easy for some simple things but impossible for others.  
Try making a cordless power tool in OpenScad.

But in Fusion a power tool is used as an intermediate-level tutorial project.  
The screenshot below is something a person could learn to make after some weeks 
of study.  I doubt anyone would even attempt it in OpenScad.   Then assuming 
you do make the OpenScad model, could you make changes in real-time as the 
client pointed out changed he would like

You have an excellent point there Chris, were I to attempt that today, I 
would probably be several weeks writing it for linuxcnc as that looks 
much easier to do in a subtractive format. Either way, I at my age, 
would find it difficult to make customer requested mods. 60 years 
younger with my better memory then it would have been much easier.



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Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 



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Re: [Emc-users] CNC machining setup cards

[Chris Albertson]

> On Jul 11, 2023, at 5:42 PM, gene heskett  wrote:
> 
> ... I'll bet real money that OpenSCAD is easier to learn. 

Openscad is certainly easy for some simple things but impossible for others.  
Try making a cordless power tool in OpenScad.

But in Fusion a power tool is used as an intermediate-level tutorial project.  
The screenshot below is something a person could learn to make after some weeks 
of study.  I doubt anyone would even attempt it in OpenScad.   Then assuming 
you do make the OpenScad model, could you make changes in real-time as the 
client pointed out changed he would like

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Re: [Emc-users] CNC machining setup cards

[gene heskett]

On 7/11/23 18:36, andy pugh wrote:

On Tue, 11 Jul 2023 at 23:13, gene heskett  wrote:


I also have a problem with the $1000 limit, even if my total intake in
the last 2 decades is under 50 bucks for stuff I've done for OP.  With
today's prices, 10 G's would be a limit I might tolerate, but really, I
have no intentions of putting up a shingle.  That shop is my play toy,
not ever to be a slave to someone else's wishes.


I think you are missing the point. Fusion is free to use until and if
you are using it to make a profit, and only if that profit is
significant.

You fall very much into the free-use demographic.

And, it's not like they check anyway.

That would take a court order, for records I've never kept. Profit has 
never exceeded the costs.  Besides, I'll bet real money that OpenSCAD is 
easier to learn. I do use OpenSCAD for 3d printed stuff, there its ideal.


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 



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Re: [Emc-users] CNC machining setup cards

[John Dammeyer]

> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> On Tue, 11 Jul 2023 at 23:13, gene heskett  wrote:
> 
> > I also have a problem with the $1000 limit, even if my total intake in
> I think you are missing the point. Fusion is free to use until and if
> you are using it to make a profit, and only if that profit is
> significant.
> 
> You fall very much into the free-use demographic.
> 
> And, it's not like they check anyway.
> 
And the cost of the bait is very low compared to the number of fish they are 
catching with it.  Once you have several years of drawings (all essentially 
free) throwing an upgrade that now costs on ly a tiny bit, hardly anything,  
but "Will enhance your user experience!"  is in the works.

John



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Re: [Emc-users] CNC machining setup cards

[andy pugh]

On Tue, 11 Jul 2023 at 23:13, gene heskett  wrote:

> I also have a problem with the $1000 limit, even if my total intake in
> the last 2 decades is under 50 bucks for stuff I've done for OP.  With
> today's prices, 10 G's would be a limit I might tolerate, but really, I
> have no intentions of putting up a shingle.  That shop is my play toy,
> not ever to be a slave to someone else's wishes.

I think you are missing the point. Fusion is free to use until and if
you are using it to make a profit, and only if that profit is
significant.

You fall very much into the free-use demographic.

And, it's not like they check anyway.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] CNC machining setup cards

[gene heskett]

On 7/11/23 09:31, Matthew Herd wrote:

At one time, Fusion360's hobby user license limited rapids to the max feed
speed, but that may have changed.  The biggest issue I discovered was the
one tool per program limitation.  Even with a manual tool change, I prefer
to have one program per setup rather than multiple programs.


That is a limitatiom I can't live with. The mst tool complex thing I 
wrote was the 4 tool thing that I setup as stations on the mills 
table.But I've never had the luxury of a toolholder system that made a 
properly configured tooltable a reality. So as it changes tools, I also 
measure for tlo after the tool change, and once fine tuned, tha tworked 
quit well. I chose a taller part of one on the jigs and put a piece of 
double sided pcb material connected to the probe input, made sure the 
tool turning slowly backwards for less wear on the pcb's copper had a 
good ground as it approached the pcb, probed for the pcb, grabbing the Z 
data from that, and calculated the z offet to apply to the next 
operation.  Once fine tuned, I made about 150 of the brass tap hats for 
every tap small enough I could turn it in my souped up g0704. I have a 
psu that can hit that 1hp rated motor for nearly 4hp surge.


I also have a problem with the $1000 limit, even if my total intake in 
the last 2 decades is under 50 bucks for stuff I've done for OP.  With 
today's prices, 10 G's would be a limit I might tolerate, but really, I 
have no intentions of putting up a shingle.  That shop is my play toy, 
not ever to be a slave to someone else's wishes. At the instant, I've 
enough resources I don't have to make an income from it.


That, at 88 yo, seems to be the ideal situation.


On Tue, Jul 11, 2023 at 8:55 AM andy pugh  wrote:


On Wed, 5 Jul 2023 at 20:11, Dave Matthews  wrote:


Fusion 360 is still free for personal use.  The limit is $1000 in sales.
The do defeature some parts like rapids in tool paths.


I have read that, but the G-code it produces for me still contains G0
moves.

--
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 



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Re: [Emc-users] CNC machining setup cards

[Matthew Herd]

At one time, Fusion360's hobby user license limited rapids to the max feed
speed, but that may have changed.  The biggest issue I discovered was the
one tool per program limitation.  Even with a manual tool change, I prefer
to have one program per setup rather than multiple programs.

On Tue, Jul 11, 2023 at 8:55 AM andy pugh  wrote:

> On Wed, 5 Jul 2023 at 20:11, Dave Matthews  wrote:
> >
> > Fusion 360 is still free for personal use.  The limit is $1000 in sales.
> > The do defeature some parts like rapids in tool paths.
>
> I have read that, but the G-code it produces for me still contains G0
> moves.
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>
>
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-- 
Matthew Herd
Email:  herd.m...@gmail.com
Cell:  610-608-8930

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Re: [Emc-users] CNC machining setup cards

[andy pugh]

On Wed, 5 Jul 2023 at 20:11, Dave Matthews  wrote:
>
> Fusion 360 is still free for personal use.  The limit is $1000 in sales.
> The do defeature some parts like rapids in tool paths.

I have read that, but the G-code it produces for me still contains G0 moves.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] CNC machining setup cards

[Chris Albertson]

It is not a public Beta.   First you get Fusion 360 running which means setting 
up an account.  They also need to see that you use Fusion regularly.

Then you apply for membership in the “Insider’s Program”.

More here 
https://feedback.autodesk.com/key/Fusion360Insider

There are other new fetures beibg tested, not just Apple Silicon.  One of them 
is a fastener library for nuts and bolts and they say there is a way to use yur 
company’s part number system for you fastener library.  Some other stuff about 
tool path generation.  I see something about version control when multiple 
users work on the same desgin files too. They add features frquently and 
then  few months later we see them in the public release.

What you can see and use in the Beta also depends if you have the free or paid 
version.  You can’t use paid beta features is you do not have a paid 
subscription


> On Jul 5, 2023, at 7:56 PM, Thaddeus Waldner  wrote:
> 
> Would you mind detailing how to get this beta?
> 
>> 
>> BTW, Fusion 360 has just come out with a Beta release that runs native on 
>> Apple Silicon.   The new Apple processors are astonishingly fast.   The 
>> above part is designed to be printed but it is fun to let Fusion great 
>> g-code files for milling and see what it comes up with.
>> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] CNC machining setup cards

[Thaddeus Waldner]

Would you mind detailing how to get this beta?

> 
> BTW, Fusion 360 has just come out with a Beta release that runs native on 
> Apple Silicon.   The new Apple processors are astonishingly fast.   The above 
> part is designed to be printed but it is fun to let Fusion great g-code files 
> for milling and see what it comes up with.
> 



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Re: [Emc-users] CNC machining setup cards

[Dave Matthews]

I don't know if Thailand falls under the ITAR rules but they may be what
you are hitting.  If you can't install it you probably can't run it
either.  Autodesk loves the cloud and calling home.

Dave

On Wed, Jul 5, 2023, 22:41 Thomas J Powderly  wrote:

> thc all
>
> but the question said _get_
>
> not how to VBox or Wine  or...
>
> Thx but ity seems hard to __get__
>
> Now I've followed Dave's url and it doesnt work... due to my location.
>
> Dave
>
> Thanks, I think I cant complete the download becasue I am in Thailand
>
> The origin of the request is in a country not allowed (afaict)
>
> Tried my US addr and my Thai addr, trued FFox and Cgromium.
>
> I think Thailand requests are banned/
>
> ( the download ends immediately with a 'if unsuccessful,please try again'
>
> and wasj rinse repeat just doent work
>
> a VPN may help , i dunno.
>
> thxx
>
> tomp
>
> On 7/6/23 07:16, Chris Albertson wrote:
> >
> >> On Jul 5, 2023, at 11:36 AM, gene heskett  wrote:
> >>
> >> On 7/5/23 13:29, Thomas J Powderly wrote:
> >>> Since this thread has 'evolved' into free 3D modeling software...
> >>> Can I ask how to get Fusion 360 on a Linux box?
> >>> I remember several failed tries but I font recall why.
> >>> LinuxCNC community people seem to really like it,
> >> That seems to be true, but it is not free anymore. So I'm making parts
> for stuff on 3d printers using OpenSCAD as the design software.  You can be
> productive quite rapidly in it.
> > What?   Fusion 360 is still free for personal use or even for commercial
> use as long as the bussines makes less than $50K.
> >
> > If you want 3D CAD software that can run on Linux then you could try
> > 1) FreeCAD,  Not unlike Fusion 360 but is mre limited and lacks
> sophisticated manufacturing ability
> > 2) OnShape,  Online, runs in a web browser and nit somewhat like FreeCad
> but has ZERO manufacturing ability
> > 3) OpenScad.  Good for very geometric designes that can be described in
> a modeling language.  Good for gears, bushing and such but VERY poor if you
> wanted to maybe make a car body part or a motorcycle engine cover
> >
> > If the goal is to convert STL files to “real” CAD drawings that can be
> edited.   Fusion is your best bet and even then you have to do a lot of
> manual work
> >
> >
> > ___
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>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] CNC machining setup cards

[Thomas J Powderly]

thc all

but the question said _get_

not how to VBox or Wine  or...

Thx but ity seems hard to __get__

Now I've followed Dave's url and it doesnt work... due to my location.

Dave

Thanks, I think I cant complete the download becasue I am in Thailand

The origin of the request is in a country not allowed (afaict)

Tried my US addr and my Thai addr, trued FFox and Cgromium.

I think Thailand requests are banned/

( the download ends immediately with a 'if unsuccessful,please try again'

and wasj rinse repeat just doent work

a VPN may help , i dunno.

thxx

tomp

On 7/6/23 07:16, Chris Albertson wrote:



On Jul 5, 2023, at 11:36 AM, gene heskett  wrote:

On 7/5/23 13:29, Thomas J Powderly wrote:

Since this thread has 'evolved' into free 3D modeling software...
Can I ask how to get Fusion 360 on a Linux box?
I remember several failed tries but I font recall why.
LinuxCNC community people seem to really like it,

That seems to be true, but it is not free anymore. So I'm making parts for 
stuff on 3d printers using OpenSCAD as the design software.  You can be 
productive quite rapidly in it.

What?   Fusion 360 is still free for personal use or even for commercial use as 
long as the bussines makes less than $50K.

If you want 3D CAD software that can run on Linux then you could try
1) FreeCAD,  Not unlike Fusion 360 but is mre limited and lacks sophisticated 
manufacturing ability
2) OnShape,  Online, runs in a web browser and nit somewhat like FreeCad but 
has ZERO manufacturing ability
3) OpenScad.  Good for very geometric designes that can be described in a 
modeling language.  Good for gears, bushing and such but VERY poor if you 
wanted to maybe make a car body part or a motorcycle engine cover

If the goal is to convert STL files to “real” CAD drawings that can be edited.  
 Fusion is your best bet and even then you have to do a lot of manual work


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Re: [Emc-users] CNC machining setup cards

[gene heskett]

On 7/5/23 15:05, Dave Matthews wrote:

Fusion 360 is still free for personal use.  The limit is $1000 in sales.


Of what?


The do defeature some parts like rapids in tool paths.


That sucks, and since its gcode output is totally unwrapped, fixing the 
gcode in your fav editor isn't practical time wise. I may be a bit 
unusual, but I write my own gcode. I'm fond of subroutines, and quite 
complex projects seldom run more than 600 LOC.  Unwrapped, 20 gigabytes.


Thanks Dave. take care & stay well.

https://www.autodesk.com/products/fusion-360/personal

[...]

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 



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Re: [Emc-users] CNC machining setup cards

[Chris Albertson]

> On Jul 5, 2023, at 11:36 AM, gene heskett  wrote:
> 
> On 7/5/23 13:29, Thomas J Powderly wrote:
>> Since this thread has 'evolved' into free 3D modeling software...
>> Can I ask how to get Fusion 360 on a Linux box?
>> I remember several failed tries but I font recall why.
>> LinuxCNC community people seem to really like it,
> 
> That seems to be true, but it is not free anymore. So I'm making parts for 
> stuff on 3d printers using OpenSCAD as the design software.  You can be 
> productive quite rapidly in it.

What?   Fusion 360 is still free for personal use or even for commercial use as 
long as the bussines makes less than $50K.

If you want 3D CAD software that can run on Linux then you could try
1) FreeCAD,  Not unlike Fusion 360 but is mre limited and lacks sophisticated 
manufacturing ability
2) OnShape,  Online, runs in a web browser and nit somewhat like FreeCad but 
has ZERO manufacturing ability
3) OpenScad.  Good for very geometric designes that can be described in a 
modeling language.  Good for gears, bushing and such but VERY poor if you 
wanted to maybe make a car body part or a motorcycle engine cover

If the goal is to convert STL files to “real” CAD drawings that can be edited.  
 Fusion is your best bet and even then you have to do a lot of manual work


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Re: [Emc-users] CNC machining setup cards

[Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users]

Will it run using WINE? https://www.winehq.org/


On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 11:30:21 AM MDT, Thomas J Powderly 
 wrote: 


Since this thread has 'evolved' into free 3D modeling software...

Can I ask how to get Fusion 360 on a Linux box?

I remember several failed tries but I font recall why.

LinuxCNC community people seem to really like it,

TIA

tomp


On 7/5/23 21:44, gene heskett wrote:
> On 7/5/23 06:50, Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users wrote:
>>
>> This one has direct download links https://united3dartists.com/
>>
> That appears to be a windows program. Windows is extinct here. ;o)> 
> Thank you.


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Re: [Emc-users] CNC machining setup cards

[Chris Albertson]

> On Jul 5, 2023, at 10:27 AM, Thomas J Powderly  wrote:
> 
> Since this thread has 'evolved' into free 3D modeling software...
> 
> Can I ask how to get Fusion 360 on a Linux box?

It is easy.  But you need Linux on Intel.  ARM-based Linux will not work

1) install a virtual machine system.  VMware works well and it is free
2) install Windows 11 in the virtual machine.  It is free also as long as you 
don’t care if it is “activated”.  The only problem with non-activated is you 
get nagged to activate it.
3) install Fusion 360 on the virtual Windows 11

It runs surprisingly fast if your Linux machine has enough cores and RAM to run 
both Linux and Windows at the same time.   In VMWare’s setting asign at least 
about 16GB and 4 cores to the Windows VM.   It can work with less but it gets 
slow.

I just moved to an Apple Mac M2 Pro.  This is a 10-core Apple Silicon system.  
A Beta release of Fusion 360 just came out that runs native on Apple Silicon.   
It is very fast now. and also very cost effective.  Apple is MUCH less cost 
than a top of the line Intel i9

A $2000 Intel i9 or Xeon with or 64 GB RAM and fast M.2 based SSD running 
Linux/VMware/Windows/Fusion is very usable for projects like robotics that have 
hundreds of complex 3D parts.   But such a PC is not cheap.   An Apple Mac mini 
configured to cost about $800 to $1,200 will give a better user experience.   I 
actually have both of these here now.   That said, I’d bet simply running 
Windows 11 directly on high-end hardware (with a good GPU) would be even better.

For many simple projects the above is over kill.  Use OpenScad or FreeCAD for 
many projects that have only a few parts and are very geometric.   Fusion 360 
(or the like) beciase needed if you project is something like a 
battery-operated drill that has internal gears, and complex shape housing with 
rubber over-molding.  Fusion is good for work of about the complexity of a 
Millwaulkee power tool.   The Mac or Intel i9 would be powerfull enough to 
Support the design of a typical power tool.For simpler parts less i 
required.

I have another data point at the low end.   An Intel “Core 2” with 8GB RAM and 
integrated graphics from 2014 is just barely able to run a 
VMware/Windows/Fusion stack.  I would not recommend it.   While my 16-core Xeon 
with 64 GB RAM runs it well as does the new Mac. (the Mac being a little faster)



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Re: [Emc-users] CNC machining setup cards

[Dave Matthews]

Fusion 360 is still free for personal use.  The limit is $1000 in sales.
The do defeature some parts like rapids in tool paths.

https://www.autodesk.com/products/fusion-360/personal

Dave

On Wed, Jul 5, 2023 at 2:40 PM gene heskett  wrote:

> On 7/5/23 13:29, Thomas J Powderly wrote:
> > Since this thread has 'evolved' into free 3D modeling software...
> >
> > Can I ask how to get Fusion 360 on a Linux box?
> >
> > I remember several failed tries but I font recall why.
> >
> > LinuxCNC community people seem to really like it,
>
> That seems to be true, but it is not free anymore. So I'm making parts
> for stuff on 3d printers using OpenSCAD as the design software.  You can
> be productive quite rapidly in it.
> >
> > TIA
> >
> > tomp
> >
> >
> > On 7/5/23 21:44, gene heskett wrote:
> >> On 7/5/23 06:50, Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users wrote:
> >>>
> >>> This one has direct download links https://united3dartists.com/
> >>>
> >> That appears to be a windows program. Windows is extinct here. ;o)>
> >> Thank you.
> >>>
> >>> On Tuesday, July 4, 2023 at 11:44:50 AM MDT, gene heskett
> >>>  wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 7/4/23 08:03, Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users wrote:
>  Caligari trueSpace can import STL and it can save to a wide range of
>  formats.
> >>>
> >>> No thanks for the link Greg, every button on that page leads to a porno
> >>> dl with no exit buttons in sight. Its been compromised, probably by M$.
> >>>
> >>> Cheers, Gene Heskett.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> Emc-users mailing list
> >>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >>> .
> >>
> >> Cheers, Gene Heskett.
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > .
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett.
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>   soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>   - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
>
>
>
> ___
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>

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Re: [Emc-users] CNC machining setup cards

[gene heskett]

On 7/5/23 13:29, Thomas J Powderly wrote:

Since this thread has 'evolved' into free 3D modeling software...

Can I ask how to get Fusion 360 on a Linux box?

I remember several failed tries but I font recall why.

LinuxCNC community people seem to really like it,


That seems to be true, but it is not free anymore. So I'm making parts 
for stuff on 3d printers using OpenSCAD as the design software.  You can 
be productive quite rapidly in it.


TIA

tomp


On 7/5/23 21:44, gene heskett wrote:

On 7/5/23 06:50, Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users wrote:


This one has direct download links https://united3dartists.com/

That appears to be a windows program. Windows is extinct here. ;o)> 
Thank you.


On Tuesday, July 4, 2023 at 11:44:50 AM MDT, gene heskett 
 wrote:






On 7/4/23 08:03, Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users wrote:
Caligari trueSpace can import STL and it can save to a wide range of 
formats.


No thanks for the link Greg, every button on that page leads to a porno
dl with no exit buttons in sight. Its been compromised, probably by M$.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.


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.


Cheers, Gene Heskett.



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Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 



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Re: [Emc-users] CNC machining setup cards

[Thomas J Powderly]

Since this thread has 'evolved' into free 3D modeling software...

Can I ask how to get Fusion 360 on a Linux box?

I remember several failed tries but I font recall why.

LinuxCNC community people seem to really like it,

TIA

tomp


On 7/5/23 21:44, gene heskett wrote:

On 7/5/23 06:50, Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users wrote:


This one has direct download links https://united3dartists.com/

That appears to be a windows program. Windows is extinct here. ;o)> 
Thank you.


On Tuesday, July 4, 2023 at 11:44:50 AM MDT, gene heskett 
 wrote:






On 7/4/23 08:03, Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users wrote:
Caligari trueSpace can import STL and it can save to a wide range of 
formats.


No thanks for the link Greg, every button on that page leads to a porno
dl with no exit buttons in sight. Its been compromised, probably by M$.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.


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.


Cheers, Gene Heskett.



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Re: [Emc-users] CNC machining setup cards

[gene heskett]

On 7/5/23 06:50, Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users wrote:


This one has direct download links https://united3dartists.com/

That appears to be a windows program. Windows is extinct here. ;o)> 
Thank you.


On Tuesday, July 4, 2023 at 11:44:50 AM MDT, gene heskett 
 wrote:





On 7/4/23 08:03, Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users wrote:

Caligari trueSpace can import STL and it can save to a wide range of formats.


No thanks for the link Greg, every button on that page leads to a porno
dl with no exit buttons in sight. Its been compromised, probably by M$.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.


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Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 



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Re: [Emc-users] CNC machining setup cards

[Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users]

This one has direct download links https://united3dartists.com/


On Tuesday, July 4, 2023 at 11:44:50 AM MDT, gene heskett 
 wrote: 





On 7/4/23 08:03, Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users wrote:
> Caligari trueSpace can import STL and it can save to a wide range of formats.

No thanks for the link Greg, every button on that page leads to a porno 
dl with no exit buttons in sight. Its been compromised, probably by M$.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.


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Re: [Emc-users] CNC machining setup cards

[Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users]

One more thing about using trueSpace for STL, only work in metric dimensions. 
It doesn't matter if you select millimeters, centimeters, or meters. To STL 
they're all millimeters. The different units in the software just work for your 
own convenience for scale so you don't have to zom in. If you're designing 
something really small, in trueSpace set everything to Meters so the model will 
fill the screen. For larger stuff work in centimeters or millimeters.

If you set trueSpace to Imperial units what it outputs won't load at the right 
size in a slicer because of whatever trueSpace does converting Imperial to 
millimeters when saving to STL. I did one model for 3D printing in Inches to 
figure that out.

The rescale to 8 units issue can cause enlargement as well as shrinking. Create 
a 2 metric unit cube. Save to STL and delete the object from the scene. Open 
the STL and now you have an 8 unit cube.

trueSpace is a solid modeling program. If a mesh isn't solid then the things 
that can be done to it are limited. Fortunately it has an Add Face function. 
Select that and move around the non-solid mesh. When the cursor is over a hole 
it'll highlight the edges. Click and *poof* it's filled. If it has more than 3 
edges it may not be a *flat* face. Sooo, Add Edges.

It has its oddities, plenty of them. But I've used it for years and have 
learned some tricks for modeling while still not coming anywhere near to using 
its full capabilities. I've mainly used it for modeling, not texturing, 
rendering, or animation. Version 6.x and 7.x have the Lightworks rendering 
engine, which at the time it was added to trueSpace at no extra cost, as a 
plugin for Lightwave the Lightworks engine cost more than trueSpace.

I'd love to see some people figure out how to buy trueSpace from Microsoft and 
make it open source. Would probably have to leave out some of the 3rd party 
bits like Lightworks but if the open source builds could be installed over the 
free 7.x release from Microsoft the OS updated files should be able to retain 
the interfaces to the closed source parts.

On Tuesday, July 4, 2023 at 11:34:55 AM MDT, gene heskett 
 wrote: 

On 7/4/23 08:03, Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users wrote:
> Caligari trueSpace can import STL and it can save to a wide range of formats.

> If you want to give it a whirl there are a few versions of 7.x here 
> http://truespace3d.free.fr/index.php/truespace-7-6/
> I use 6.6 since the Model Side of 7.x is essentially version 6.6 and I never 
> could get into the new 7.x Workspace. It's so different from 2.x through 6.6. 
> Hmmm, I don't remember if Workspace side has the size issue with importing.

I'll look at it, thank you for the link.


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Re: [Emc-users] CNC machining setup cards

[Chris Albertson]

The problem with transforming an STL file to a “real” CAD file is that the STL 
is only an approximation of the true shape.  The software would have to have 
some intelligence to see that the designer intended to (say) have a curved 
profile revolved around an axis to make a complex shape on a lathe.  A human 
can see this quickly, but software can’t (yet).  So you need a human in the 
loop to do it correctly.

Yes, you can convert.STL files into editable files and save them as .STEP.   
But not automatically.   Fusion 360 allows you to convert a triangle mesh (stl 
file) to native mesh and it can remove all the redundant points and do some 
curve-fitting and then you have an object that is a b-spline surface and is 
editable in a normal CAD system.   I’ve done this for designs as complex as a 
working quadruped robot. It takes some work but you can actually turn STL 
files into geometric objects that can be edited and parameterized.

Here is a part I made that started life in Blender, was saved as STL, Imported 
to Fusion turned into normal CAD and then greatly modified.  Two of these 
assemblies in each robot are used to connect the legs to the body.   You can 
see it in the on-line viewer linked below

https://a360.co/3ra8Dyh

BTW, Fusion 360 has just come out with a Beta release that runs native on Apple 
Silicon.   The new Apple processors are astonishingly fast.   The above part is 
designed to be printed but it is fun to let Fusion great g-code files for 
milling and see what it comes up with.


> On Jul 4, 2023, at 5:01 AM, Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users 
>  wrote:
> 
> Caligari trueSpace can import STL and it can save to a wide range of formats.
> 
> However, it hasn't had any official support since Microsoft bought Caligari 
> to position trueSpace as a competitor to Google's Sketchup. (I call it Messup 
> because I've seen some of the worst geometry ever made by people using 
> Sketchup.) Google had Sketchup for people to use to populate Google Earth 
> with 3D models of buildings. Microsoft whipped up Virtual Earth... and nobody 
> cared. People weren't stepping up to voluntarily use the free version of 
> Sketchup to make 3D stuff for Google Earth either.
> 
> Microsoft quickly swept trueSpace under the digital rug, left the site for it 
> unchanged for a while until they got around to deleting it. Lots of people 
> grabbed the free downloads and some patches and other things have been made. 
> There's a ton of tSx plugins available for free, including many formerly 
> commercial ones. Most tSx for version 6.x and some for 5.x will work but most 
> for older versions won't.
> 
> One glitch that nobody has fixed yet is when importing some 3D file formats 
> it scales the mesh down to make the largest axis, X, Y, or Z, exactly 8 units 
> of whichever is the currently selected unit in the workspace. With STL I load 
> up the model in a slicer to get the proper XYZ sizes then scale up to match 
> in trueSpace then save a copy in its native COB format.
> 
> I always save in COB (frequently! it appends an auto-incremented number to 
> the file names) and export to STL. Exports of the formats it supports are 
> fine. It's just importing it has the size issue with. Would have been so nice 
> if Microsoft hadn't killed it by buying the company. I've used every 
> trueSpace version since 2.2a so I'm used to its oddities it inherited by 
> originally being an Amiga program.
> 
> If you want to give it a whirl there are a few versions of 7.x here 
> http://truespace3d.free.fr/index.php/truespace-7-6/
> I use 6.6 since the Model Side of 7.x is essentially version 6.6 and I never 
> could get into the new 7.x Workspace. It's so different from 2.x through 6.6. 
> Hmmm, I don't remember if Workspace side has the size issue with importing.
> 
> On Tuesday, July 4, 2023 at 03:10:58 AM MDT, gene heskett 
>  wrote: 
> 
> On 7/4/23 02:01, andrew beck wrote:
>> I run a CNC machine shop full time.
>> 
>> We always want the step files.  Or SOLIDWORKS files etc.
>> 
>> And we make it own gcode from that.
>> 
>> It would be a nightmare to run someone else's gcode lol.
>> 
> I'll have to agree Andrew. Most of the stuff on thingiverse for 3d 
> printers is in .stl formats, cura can usually make something useful out 
> of them. but its maddening to see an .stl that needs fixed, and I've not 
> found anything that can convert an .stl back into something that can be 
> edited in openscad. So I wind up about 95% of the time, using the image 
> as a guide to compose something that looks like it well enough to work.
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] CNC machining setup cards

[gene heskett]

On 7/4/23 08:03, Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users wrote:

Caligari trueSpace can import STL and it can save to a wide range of formats.

However, it hasn't had any official support since Microsoft bought Caligari to 
position trueSpace as a competitor to Google's Sketchup. (I call it Messup 
because I've seen some of the worst geometry ever made by people using 
Sketchup.) Google had Sketchup for people to use to populate Google Earth with 
3D models of buildings. Microsoft whipped up Virtual Earth... and nobody cared. 
People weren't stepping up to voluntarily use the free version of Sketchup to 
make 3D stuff for Google Earth either.

Microsoft quickly swept trueSpace under the digital rug, left the site for it 
unchanged for a while until they got around to deleting it. Lots of people 
grabbed the free downloads and some patches and other things have been made. 
There's a ton of tSx plugins available for free, including many formerly 
commercial ones. Most tSx for version 6.x and some for 5.x will work but most 
for older versions won't.

One glitch that nobody has fixed yet is when importing some 3D file formats it 
scales the mesh down to make the largest axis, X, Y, or Z, exactly 8 units of 
whichever is the currently selected unit in the workspace. With STL I load up 
the model in a slicer to get the proper XYZ sizes then scale up to match in 
trueSpace then save a copy in its native COB format.

I always save in COB (frequently! it appends an auto-incremented number to the 
file names) and export to STL. Exports of the formats it supports are fine. 
It's just importing it has the size issue with. Would have been so nice if 
Microsoft hadn't killed it by buying the company. I've used every trueSpace 
version since 2.2a so I'm used to its oddities it inherited by originally being 
an Amiga program.

If you want to give it a whirl there are a few versions of 7.x here 
http://truespace3d.free.fr/index.php/truespace-7-6/
I use 6.6 since the Model Side of 7.x is essentially version 6.6 and I never 
could get into the new 7.x Workspace. It's so different from 2.x through 6.6. 
Hmmm, I don't remember if Workspace side has the size issue with importing.

No thanks for the link Greg, every button on that page leads to a porno 
dl with no exit buttons in sight. Its been compromised, probably by M$.


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 



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Re: [Emc-users] CNC machining setup cards

[gene heskett]

On 7/4/23 08:03, Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users wrote:

Caligari trueSpace can import STL and it can save to a wide range of formats.

However, it hasn't had any official support since Microsoft bought Caligari to 
position trueSpace as a competitor to Google's Sketchup. (I call it Messup 
because I've seen some of the worst geometry ever made by people using 
Sketchup.) Google had Sketchup for people to use to populate Google Earth with 
3D models of buildings. Microsoft whipped up Virtual Earth... and nobody cared. 
People weren't stepping up to voluntarily use the free version of Sketchup to 
make 3D stuff for Google Earth either.


Messup is the correct name.


Microsoft quickly swept trueSpace under the digital rug, left the site for it 
unchanged for a while until they got around to deleting it. Lots of people 
grabbed the free downloads and some patches and other things have been made. 
There's a ton of tSx plugins available for free, including many formerly 
commercial ones. Most tSx for version 6.x and some for 5.x will work but most 
for older versions won't.

One glitch that nobody has fixed yet is when importing some 3D file formats it 
scales the mesh down to make the largest axis, X, Y, or Z, exactly 8 units of 
whichever is the currently selected unit in the workspace. With STL I load up 
the model in a slicer to get the proper XYZ sizes then scale up to match in 
trueSpace then save a copy in its native COB format.

I always save in COB (frequently! it appends an auto-incremented number to the 
file names) and export to STL. Exports of the formats it supports are fine. 
It's just importing it has the size issue with. Would have been so nice if 
Microsoft hadn't killed it by buying the company. I've used every trueSpace 
version since 2.2a so I'm used to its oddities it inherited by originally being 
an Amiga program.


Where it showed promises not fully delivered. Probably like Bill Hawes 
who wrote ARexx on promises from commode door, and never rx'd a dime for 
his efforts. That had hooks into every crack and cranny of the OS 
itself, stuff you could not do in SAS/C by any means.  It, amigaos, did 
not have a cron type function, so Jim Himes and I wrote and published 
ezcron and then ezhome, an x10 utility that used ezcron to know when to 
turn on the lights etc. I even bought a copy of Rexx-plus, a compiler 
written by a fomoco employee.


The first TV stations web page in the country was delivered in text mode 
by an arexx script that was gradually converted to early php. Written by 
Jim and I. To put that in its proper time frame, Windoze3.1 had just 
been announced. We originally used the teleprompter scripts for news text.


Now I'm 21 years retired from the Chiefs chair at WDTV, Jim is head of 
the linux stuff at a major guvment agency and the web page's composition 
has been farmed out. 1% news, 99% commercials. Try and find the news. :(>




If you want to give it a whirl there are a few versions of 7.x here 
http://truespace3d.free.fr/index.php/truespace-7-6/
I use 6.6 since the Model Side of 7.x is essentially version 6.6 and I never 
could get into the new 7.x Workspace. It's so different from 2.x through 6.6. 
Hmmm, I don't remember if Workspace side has the size issue with importing.


I'll look at it, thank you for the link.



On Tuesday, July 4, 2023 at 03:10:58 AM MDT, gene heskett 
 wrote:

On 7/4/23 02:01, andrew beck wrote:

I run a CNC machine shop full time.

We always want the step files.  Or SOLIDWORKS files etc.

And we make it own gcode from that.

It would be a nightmare to run someone else's gcode lol.


I'll have to agree Andrew. Most of the stuff on thingiverse for 3d
printers is in .stl formats, cura can usually make something useful out
of them. but its maddening to see an .stl that needs fixed, and I've not
found anything that can convert an .stl back into something that can be
edited in openscad. So I wind up about 95% of the time, using the image
as a guide to compose something that looks like it well enough to work.


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--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 



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Re: [Emc-users] CNC machining setup cards

[Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users]

Caligari trueSpace can import STL and it can save to a wide range of formats.

However, it hasn't had any official support since Microsoft bought Caligari to 
position trueSpace as a competitor to Google's Sketchup. (I call it Messup 
because I've seen some of the worst geometry ever made by people using 
Sketchup.) Google had Sketchup for people to use to populate Google Earth with 
3D models of buildings. Microsoft whipped up Virtual Earth... and nobody cared. 
People weren't stepping up to voluntarily use the free version of Sketchup to 
make 3D stuff for Google Earth either.

Microsoft quickly swept trueSpace under the digital rug, left the site for it 
unchanged for a while until they got around to deleting it. Lots of people 
grabbed the free downloads and some patches and other things have been made. 
There's a ton of tSx plugins available for free, including many formerly 
commercial ones. Most tSx for version 6.x and some for 5.x will work but most 
for older versions won't.

One glitch that nobody has fixed yet is when importing some 3D file formats it 
scales the mesh down to make the largest axis, X, Y, or Z, exactly 8 units of 
whichever is the currently selected unit in the workspace. With STL I load up 
the model in a slicer to get the proper XYZ sizes then scale up to match in 
trueSpace then save a copy in its native COB format.

I always save in COB (frequently! it appends an auto-incremented number to the 
file names) and export to STL. Exports of the formats it supports are fine. 
It's just importing it has the size issue with. Would have been so nice if 
Microsoft hadn't killed it by buying the company. I've used every trueSpace 
version since 2.2a so I'm used to its oddities it inherited by originally being 
an Amiga program.

If you want to give it a whirl there are a few versions of 7.x here 
http://truespace3d.free.fr/index.php/truespace-7-6/
I use 6.6 since the Model Side of 7.x is essentially version 6.6 and I never 
could get into the new 7.x Workspace. It's so different from 2.x through 6.6. 
Hmmm, I don't remember if Workspace side has the size issue with importing.

On Tuesday, July 4, 2023 at 03:10:58 AM MDT, gene heskett 
 wrote: 

On 7/4/23 02:01, andrew beck wrote:
> I run a CNC machine shop full time.
> 
> We always want the step files.  Or SOLIDWORKS files etc.
> 
> And we make it own gcode from that.
> 
> It would be a nightmare to run someone else's gcode lol.
> 
I'll have to agree Andrew. Most of the stuff on thingiverse for 3d 
printers is in .stl formats, cura can usually make something useful out 
of them. but its maddening to see an .stl that needs fixed, and I've not 
found anything that can convert an .stl back into something that can be 
edited in openscad. So I wind up about 95% of the time, using the image 
as a guide to compose something that looks like it well enough to work.


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Re: [Emc-users] CNC machining setup cards

[gene heskett]

On 7/4/23 02:01, andrew beck wrote:

I run a CNC machine shop full time.

We always want the step files.  Or SOLIDWORKS files etc.

And we make it own gcode from that.

It would be a nightmare to run someone else's gcode lol.

I'll have to agree Andrew. Most of the stuff on thingiverse for 3d 
printers is in .stl formats, cura can usually make something useful out 
of them. but its maddening to see an .stl that needs fixed, and I've not 
found anything that can convert an .stl back into something that can be 
edited in openscad. So I wind up about 95% of the time, using the image 
as a guide to compose something that looks like it well enough to work.


Your last sentence is being far more PC that my feelings about it. But 
at my age, I don't feel like wasting my time trying to fix OP idiocy, so 
for linuxcnc, at least 75% of the contents of my nc_files directory is 
code I wrote, and I'm overly fond of while loops, which can be only 1% 
of the size of a cad programs 100% unrolled code. I have one example, 
used to sharpen a 10" table saw blade, 90 lines, takes 3 days to run but 
the resultant carbide tipped blade is 10x sharper and 10x longer lasting 
than any blade you can buy new.  Write it right once, use till the 
storage dies.  Whats not to love?



On Tue, 4 Jul 2023, 17:45 Thomas J Powderly,  wrote:


Hi Nicklas

Maybe you look for old style grid work planning

Maybe you look for templates for each d/m/d/t code to work in text editor

I remember older APT books showing the grid worksheets

You may find them in the APTOS archives of  the wayback machine

https://sourceforge.net/projects/aptos/

( the autors moved thru many incarnation, now many work on FreeCad)

and maybe in

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/APT_(programming_language)


https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/GOVPUB-C13-1470e356ce0fe0a8cd622276c5b78d27/pdf/GOVPUB-C13-1470e356ce0fe0a8cd622276c5b78d27.pdf


https://www.onboces.org/site/handlers/filedownload.ashx?moduleinstanceid=1920=6254=cnc%20ch%208.pdf

https://www.liveworksheets.com/gg3052949ee

https://www.scribd.com/doc/20749552/CNC-Milling-Worksheet


https://www.haascnc.com/content/dam/haascnc/en/service/reference/programming-workbooks/mill---programming-workbook.pdf

but I dount modern shop wants your gcode

they want a model

and will generate thier owm gcode

hth

tomp

On 7/4/23 00:41, Nicklas SB Karlsson wrote:


Starting to get a little bit harder to remember everything manually,
never worked in or submitted work to a workshop. Anyone with experience
have some good example how a CNC machining setup card should look like?
History of CNC machininghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvicnzyprOg
Regards Nicklas Karlsson
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.


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 



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Re: [Emc-users] CNC machining setup cards

[andrew beck]

I run a CNC machine shop full time.

We always want the step files.  Or SOLIDWORKS files etc.

And we make it own gcode from that.

It would be a nightmare to run someone else's gcode lol.



On Tue, 4 Jul 2023, 17:45 Thomas J Powderly,  wrote:

> Hi Nicklas
>
> Maybe you look for old style grid work planning
>
> Maybe you look for templates for each d/m/d/t code to work in text editor
>
> I remember older APT books showing the grid worksheets
>
> You may find them in the APTOS archives of  the wayback machine
>
> https://sourceforge.net/projects/aptos/
>
> ( the autors moved thru many incarnation, now many work on FreeCad)
>
> and maybe in
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/APT_(programming_language)
>
>
> https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/GOVPUB-C13-1470e356ce0fe0a8cd622276c5b78d27/pdf/GOVPUB-C13-1470e356ce0fe0a8cd622276c5b78d27.pdf
>
>
> https://www.onboces.org/site/handlers/filedownload.ashx?moduleinstanceid=1920=6254=cnc%20ch%208.pdf
>
> https://www.liveworksheets.com/gg3052949ee
>
> https://www.scribd.com/doc/20749552/CNC-Milling-Worksheet
>
>
> https://www.haascnc.com/content/dam/haascnc/en/service/reference/programming-workbooks/mill---programming-workbook.pdf
>
> but I dount modern shop wants your gcode
>
> they want a model
>
> and will generate thier owm gcode
>
> hth
>
> tomp
>
> On 7/4/23 00:41, Nicklas SB Karlsson wrote:
>
> > Starting to get a little bit harder to remember everything manually,
> > never worked in or submitted work to a workshop. Anyone with experience
> > have some good example how a CNC machining setup card should look like?
> > History of CNC machininghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvicnzyprOg
> > Regards Nicklas Karlsson
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
> ___
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Re: [Emc-users] CNC machining setup cards

[Thomas J Powderly]

Hi Nicklas

Maybe you look for old style grid work planning

Maybe you look for templates for each d/m/d/t code to work in text editor

I remember older APT books showing the grid worksheets

You may find them in the APTOS archives of  the wayback machine

https://sourceforge.net/projects/aptos/

( the autors moved thru many incarnation, now many work on FreeCad)

and maybe in

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/APT_(programming_language)

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/GOVPUB-C13-1470e356ce0fe0a8cd622276c5b78d27/pdf/GOVPUB-C13-1470e356ce0fe0a8cd622276c5b78d27.pdf

https://www.onboces.org/site/handlers/filedownload.ashx?moduleinstanceid=1920=6254=cnc%20ch%208.pdf

https://www.liveworksheets.com/gg3052949ee

https://www.scribd.com/doc/20749552/CNC-Milling-Worksheet

https://www.haascnc.com/content/dam/haascnc/en/service/reference/programming-workbooks/mill---programming-workbook.pdf

but I dount modern shop wants your gcode

they want a model

and will generate thier owm gcode

hth

tomp

On 7/4/23 00:41, Nicklas SB Karlsson wrote:


Starting to get a little bit harder to remember everything manually,
never worked in or submitted work to a workshop. Anyone with experience
have some good example how a CNC machining setup card should look like?
History of CNC machininghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvicnzyprOg
Regards Nicklas Karlsson
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[Emc-users] CNC machining setup cards

[Nicklas SB Karlsson]

Starting to get a little bit harder to remember everything manually, 
never worked in or submitted work to a workshop. Anyone with experience 
have some good example how a CNC machining setup card should look like?


History of CNC machining https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvicnzyprOg


Regards Nicklas Karlsson



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Re: [Emc-users] CNC lathe show and tell.

[andrew beck]

Just a injection moulded plastic.

2in BSPT tapered thread

We do a lot of these.

Linuxcnc never misses a beat with the threading

On Thu, 25 May 2023, 15:13 John Dammeyer,  wrote:

> Very nice!!!  What's the material?  Were the raw pieces 3D printed?   Is it
> a tapered thread?
> John
>
> -Original Message-
> From: andrew beck [mailto:andrewbeck0...@gmail.com]
> Sent: May 24, 2023 7:36 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: [Emc-users] CNC lathe show and tell.
>
> Hey guys this might interest people.
>
>
> https://youtu.be/43dDKU2GlnA
>
>
> Just a job I did yesterday on my and lathe.
>
> I kinda like it now.
>
> 3500 max rpm
>
> I think it's threading at about 900rpm
>
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>
>
> ___
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Re: [Emc-users] CNC lathe show and tell.

[John Dammeyer]

Very nice!!!  What's the material?  Were the raw pieces 3D printed?   Is it
a tapered thread?
John

-Original Message-
From: andrew beck [mailto:andrewbeck0...@gmail.com] 
Sent: May 24, 2023 7:36 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: [Emc-users] CNC lathe show and tell.

Hey guys this might interest people.


https://youtu.be/43dDKU2GlnA


Just a job I did yesterday on my and lathe.

I kinda like it now.

3500 max rpm

I think it's threading at about 900rpm

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[Emc-users] CNC lathe show and tell.

[andrew beck]

Hey guys this might interest people.


https://youtu.be/43dDKU2GlnA


Just a job I did yesterday on my and lathe.

I kinda like it now.

3500 max rpm

I think it's threading at about 900rpm

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Re: [Emc-users] CNC Shaper Project

[Matthew Herd]

Great, thanks Andy.  Seems like an interesting project.  If I end up doing
it, I'll be sure to post updates on my progress.

On Fri, Jan 27, 2023 at 12:42 PM andy pugh  wrote:

> On Thu, 26 Jan 2023 at 19:06, Matthew Herd  wrote:
>
> > Is it possible to simply assert feed-hold
> > during cut?  I assume that the feed rate would be equal to the commanded
> > feed rate whenever feed-hold is not asserted?
>
> I don't know for sure, I would experiment in a sim config to determine
> the actual behaviour.
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>
>
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-- 
Matthew Herd
Email:  herd.m...@gmail.com
Cell:  610-608-8930

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Re: [Emc-users] CNC Shaper Project

[andy pugh]

On Thu, 26 Jan 2023 at 19:06, Matthew Herd  wrote:

> Is it possible to simply assert feed-hold
> during cut?  I assume that the feed rate would be equal to the commanded
> feed rate whenever feed-hold is not asserted?

I don't know for sure, I would experiment in a sim config to determine
the actual behaviour.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] CNC Shaper Project

[Matthew Herd]

>
> I don't think that there is much benefit in servo-ing this element of
> the machine.
> I would suggest that a simple (long) flag on the bull gear could be
> used to determine if the machine is on the cut or return stroke, with
> feed-hold asserted during the cut stroke. Otherwise you might as well
> retain the original motor.
>
> A rotary axis to mount on the table might be useful, though. As might
> a second one on the ram, for use in gear-shaping operations.
>

The primary reason for servo control of the ram is to enable it to stop
motion while fully retracted.  This could be achieved by VFD I suppose.
Alternately the operator could just turn the bull gear by hand as is done
presently.  You're right, a flag or encoder could also be used with the
standard (single phase) motor.  Is it possible to simply assert feed-hold
during cut?  I assume that the feed rate would be equal to the commanded
feed rate whenever feed-hold is not asserted?

The rotaries on the ram and table are definitely useful, but a bit more
than I'd like to bite off initially.  And not necessary for the production
use case.

On Thu, Jan 26, 2023 at 12:25 PM andy pugh  wrote:

> On Thu, 26 Jan 2023 at 15:26, Matthew Herd  wrote:
>
> > The general concept is to put an encoder on the bull gear (which has
> fixed
> > timing with respect to the stroke of the ram), use a large servo as the
> > drive motor (although a VFD & 3 phase motor would also work, but this
> > allows easy positioning of the ram and I already have a servo with ample
> > power and torque).
>
> I don't think that there is much benefit in servo-ing this element of
> the machine.
> I would suggest that a simple (long) flag on the bull gear could be
> used to determine if the machine is on the cut or return stroke, with
> feed-hold asserted during the cut stroke. Otherwise you might as well
> retain the original motor.
>
> A rotary axis to mount on the table might be useful, though. As might
> a second one on the ram, for use in gear-shaping operations.
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>
>
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-- 
Matthew Herd
Email:  herd.m...@gmail.com
Cell:  610-608-8930

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Re: [Emc-users] CNC Shaper Project

[andy pugh]

On Thu, 26 Jan 2023 at 15:26, Matthew Herd  wrote:

> The general concept is to put an encoder on the bull gear (which has fixed
> timing with respect to the stroke of the ram), use a large servo as the
> drive motor (although a VFD & 3 phase motor would also work, but this
> allows easy positioning of the ram and I already have a servo with ample
> power and torque).

I don't think that there is much benefit in servo-ing this element of
the machine.
I would suggest that a simple (long) flag on the bull gear could be
used to determine if the machine is on the cut or return stroke, with
feed-hold asserted during the cut stroke. Otherwise you might as well
retain the original motor.

A rotary axis to mount on the table might be useful, though. As might
a second one on the ram, for use in gear-shaping operations.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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[Emc-users] CNC Shaper Project

[Matthew Herd]

Hi all,

I have been pondering a possible CNC shaper project for a while now.  I
have some chinese AC servos lying around and have pondered CNC on my little
Atlas 7B metal shaper.  I have a production application for this, so it's
not entirely a fanciful project.  The current solution involves CNC
shaping/broaching on a Haas mill using their built-in broaching canned
cycle (
https://www.haascnc.com/service/codes-settings.type=gcode.machine=mill.value=G156.html).
This works fine, but it's preferable to do this operation on a different
machine to reduce operator loading time.  Nonetheless, it may not be worth
the time to implement, but I'm just pondering at this stage.

The general concept is to put an encoder on the bull gear (which has fixed
timing with respect to the stroke of the ram), use a large servo as the
drive motor (although a VFD & 3 phase motor would also work, but this
allows easy positioning of the ram and I already have a servo with ample
power and torque).  Then an additional servo can be used for down feed and
cross feed (i.e. X and Y motion).  Stroke position and stroke length can be
adjusted manually as per usual shaper operation.  The servos can be
operated in step and direction mode or velocity/torque mode with analog
inputs.  The drives also provide encoder output which I would like to
provide to LinuxCNC.

I have two main questions.  1) if looking at Mesa hardware, what would be
the optimal cards for 3 AC servos with encoder feedback?  Some minimal I/O
is also required, but I don't expect this to be substantial.  I haven't
used Mesa hardware before but would like to give it a try.  2) Is it
possible to only advance (down-feed or cross-feed) the cut during a certain
portion of the rotation of the bull gear?  Shapers typically feed on the
return stroke and I would prefer to maintain this.

Thanks!
Matt

-- 
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Email:  herd.m...@gmail.com
Cell:  610-608-8930

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Re: [Emc-users] CNC controlled, plasma torch

[Robin Szemeti via Emc-users]

I suspect the problem will not be the changes to LCNC, but the wrong
version of the OS ... I'll have a look though, as that looks easy enough.

On Mon, 10 Jan 2022 at 19:52, andy pugh  wrote:

> On Mon, 10 Jan 2022 at 18:53, Robin Szemeti via Emc-users
>  wrote:
> >
> > I'll probably just leave that one alone then, it spends most of its time
> > cutting aluminium, where it isn't a problem.  I'd rather just have it
> > working than spend too much time re-configuring it.
>
> The changes required to go from 2.6 to 2.7 are minor:
>
> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/getting-started/updating-linuxcnc.html#_updating_configuration_files
>
> The 2.8 changes are significant, but almost entirely handled by an
> automated script.
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>

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Re: [Emc-users] CNC controlled, plasma torch

[gene heskett]

On Monday, January 10, 2022 1:51:18 PM EST Ed wrote:
> On 1/10/22 10:52 AM, gene heskett wrote:
> >> I had a computer die that was running one of my vertical mills. I
> >> changed it out by swapping HD and driver card to a different computer.
> >> Works OK except at the entry point to a helix it will give a little
> >> twitch and go on to the  rotation where it will twitch  every time it
> >> passes that point. That computer has a high latency problem where the
> >> old one did not.
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Ed.
> > 
> > That latency would be my clue to run "uname -a" from a terminal screen
> > and see if the running kernel is a rt version.
> 
> It came back SMP Preempt
> 
> LCNC ver 2.7.14
> 
Andy should have the last say on that. ISTR I had some minor probs back 
then, but my memory isn't as bullet proof as it was a decade ago. I've 
reached that age where if I'm not hungry, I must have had breakfast but 
can't remember what it was. 87 years on the thinker does that to you. :o)
All my stuff is running 2.9-pre. I'm sort of a self-appointed canary in the 
cal mine. Reporting breakage before it breaks you. But its a boring job as I 
don't have anything to report 99.999% of the time.
I also note the buildbot has stopped, I'd check but my rpi4 is busy making a 
new kernel for rpi4's running raspbian bullseye.
> 
> 
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Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 





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Re: [Emc-users] CNC controlled, plasma torch

[andy pugh]

On Mon, 10 Jan 2022 at 18:53, Robin Szemeti via Emc-users
 wrote:
>
> I'll probably just leave that one alone then, it spends most of its time
> cutting aluminium, where it isn't a problem.  I'd rather just have it
> working than spend too much time re-configuring it.

The changes required to go from 2.6 to 2.7 are minor:
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/getting-started/updating-linuxcnc.html#_updating_configuration_files

The 2.8 changes are significant, but almost entirely handled by an
automated script.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] CNC controlled, plasma torch

[Ed]

On 1/10/22 10:52 AM, gene heskett wrote:


I had a computer die that was running one of my vertical mills. I
changed it out by swapping HD and driver card to a different computer.
Works OK except at the entry point to a helix it will give a little
twitch and go on to the  rotation where it will twitch  every time it
passes that point. That computer has a high latency problem where the
old one did not.


Ed.
  
That latency would be my clue to run "uname -a" from a terminal screen and

see if the running kernel is a rt version.


It came back SMP Preempt

LCNC ver 2.7.14




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Re: [Emc-users] CNC controlled, plasma torch

[Robin Szemeti via Emc-users]

I'll probably just leave that one alone then, it spends most of its time
cutting aluminium, where it isn't a problem.  I'd rather just have it
working than spend too much time re-configuring it.

On Mon, 10 Jan 2022 at 18:31, andy pugh  wrote:

> On Mon, 10 Jan 2022 at 14:15, Robin Szemeti via Emc-users
>  wrote:
>
> > ...  I've just been typing "sudo apt-get update" and "sudo apt-get
> upgrade"
> > and letting it do its thing. I assume that it installs the latest
> available
> > version for that platform.
>
> No, it will install the latest release of that major version, but
> moving between major versions has to be done deliberately (as it often
> means config changes)
>
> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/getting-started/updating-linuxcnc.html
> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.8/html/getting-started/updating-linuxcnc.html
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>

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Re: [Emc-users] CNC controlled, plasma torch

[andy pugh]

On Mon, 10 Jan 2022 at 14:15, Robin Szemeti via Emc-users
 wrote:

> ...  I've just been typing "sudo apt-get update" and "sudo apt-get upgrade"
> and letting it do its thing. I assume that it installs the latest available
> version for that platform.

No, it will install the latest release of that major version, but
moving between major versions has to be done deliberately (as it often
means config changes)

http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/getting-started/updating-linuxcnc.html
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.8/html/getting-started/updating-linuxcnc.html

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] CNC controlled, plasma torch

[gene heskett]

On Monday, January 10, 2022 9:05:01 AM EST Ed wrote:
> On 1/10/22 6:35 AM, Les Newell wrote:
> > How old is your copy of LCNC? I just ran your code on my plasma and it
> > ran smoothly with no detectable hesitation on the transitions between
> > arcs.
> > 
> > Les
> 
> I had a computer die that was running one of my vertical mills. I
> changed it out by swapping HD and driver card to a different computer.
> Works OK except at the entry point to a helix it will give a little
> twitch and go on to the  rotation where it will twitch  every time it
> passes that point. That computer has a high latency problem where the
> old one did not.
> 
> 
> Ed.
 
That latency would be my clue to run "uname -a" from a terminal screen and 
see if the running kernel is a rt version.

Most of my machines will reply as:

Linux GO704 4.19.0-18-rt-amd64 #1 SMP PREEMPT RT Debian 4.19.208-1 
(2021-09-29) x86_64 GNU/Linux

Wintel based hardware IOW. And nearly all are booting from small SSD's of 60 
or more gigabytes, cheap, and faster than stink.

Even that is an older version nowadays, but so is most of my hardware, with 
2 exceptions, is all old off-lease dell's bought without the windows 
license, cheaper that way. Big, not too power efficient, but they'll give 
you uptimes to the next power failure, or the rapture. 

Here is how I've proceeded:

If the rt isn't there, backup the /home/$user/linuxcnc directory to separate 
storage on a different drive, download the latest LinuxCNC install .iso and 
burn it to a dvd, disconnect that drive, reboot to that dvd and reinstall, 
hook the backup up and copy the linuxcnc directory to the same place on the 
new install.

Andy has already written the first run scripts that will update your old 
configs and its quite likely that after that first run, your old codes will 
Just Work.

It makes this install to a $40 SSD look very inviting as its a very welcome 
speed up, they read at 600 or more megs a second, 5x faster than spinning 
rust drives. And in 3+ years here, the only SSD failure was on my rpi 
running my Sheldon, but it wasn't the drive, it was the usb to sata adaptor 
since the rpi's don't have a sata interface. Replaced the adaptor with a 
Startech brand and the drive was still good. Data was all there. I've had 4 
hard drive failures in that same time frame. So far, SSD's Just Don't fail. 
I've a mixture of Kingston, Adata & Samsung SSD's here, about 10 total.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 





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Re: [Emc-users] CNC controlled, plasma torch

[Robin Szemeti via Emc-users]

The location the router is at doesn't have permanent interwebs, so it's a
question of hooking up with some shonky phone/ADLS router/cables malarky
...  I've just been typing "sudo apt-get update" and "sudo apt-get upgrade"
and letting it do its thing. I assume that it installs the latest available
version for that platform.

I'll check what it actually is next time I am in there.  I might as well
take the stuff to hook it up to the interwebs and do an update while I am
there too.



On Mon, 10 Jan 2022 at 13:11, andy pugh  wrote:

> On Mon, 10 Jan 2022 at 12:49, Robin Szemeti via Emc-users
>  wrote:
> >
> > It's .. hmm ... I think 2.6 ... it was installed about 5 years ago I
> guess,
> > and kept up with the occasional apt-get update/upgrade although it
> probably
> > hasn't had one in the last year or so.  I can check the exact version
> next
> > time I am in.
>
> You should  be able to upgrade the linuxCNC version with no reason to
> run the risk of an OS upgrade.
>
> 2.7 is available back to Ubuntu10.04 "Lucid" and 2.8 back to 12.04
> "Precise" or Debian 7 "Wheezy".
>
> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?MinimumSoftwareVersions
>
> The next version (2.9) will abandon almost all of the legacy OSs.
> Because it is getting silly.
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>

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Re: [Emc-users] CNC controlled, plasma torch

[Ed]

On 1/10/22 6:35 AM, Les Newell wrote:
How old is your copy of LCNC? I just ran your code on my plasma and it 
ran smoothly with no detectable hesitation on the transitions between 
arcs.


Les 


I had a computer die that was running one of my vertical mills. I 
changed it out by swapping HD and driver card to a different computer. 
Works OK except at the entry point to a helix it will give a little 
twitch and go on to the  rotation where it will twitch  every time it 
passes that point. That computer has a high latency problem where the 
old one did not.



Ed.




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Re: [Emc-users] CNC controlled, plasma torch

[andy pugh]

On Mon, 10 Jan 2022 at 12:49, Robin Szemeti via Emc-users
 wrote:
>
> It's .. hmm ... I think 2.6 ... it was installed about 5 years ago I guess,
> and kept up with the occasional apt-get update/upgrade although it probably
> hasn't had one in the last year or so.  I can check the exact version next
> time I am in.

You should  be able to upgrade the linuxCNC version with no reason to
run the risk of an OS upgrade.

2.7 is available back to Ubuntu10.04 "Lucid" and 2.8 back to 12.04
"Precise" or Debian 7 "Wheezy".

http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?MinimumSoftwareVersions

The next version (2.9) will abandon almost all of the legacy OSs.
Because it is getting silly.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] CNC controlled, plasma torch

[Les Newell]

I'm pretty sure the new TP was introduced in 2.7.

Les

On 10/01/2022 12:46, Robin Szemeti via Emc-users wrote:

It's .. hmm ... I think 2.6 ... it was installed about 5 years ago I guess,
and kept up with the occasional apt-get update/upgrade although it probably
hasn't had one in the last year or so.  I can check the exact version next
time I am in.





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Re: [Emc-users] CNC controlled, plasma torch

[Robin Szemeti via Emc-users]

It's .. hmm ... I think 2.6 ... it was installed about 5 years ago I guess,
and kept up with the occasional apt-get update/upgrade although it probably
hasn't had one in the last year or so.  I can check the exact version next
time I am in.


On Mon, 10 Jan 2022 at 12:36, Les Newell  wrote:

> How old is your copy of LCNC? I just ran your code on my plasma and it
> ran smoothly with no detectable hesitation on the transitions between arcs.
>
> Les
>
> On 10/01/2022 12:08, Robin Szemeti via Emc-users wrote:
> > I've not built any plasmas in years :)  I eventually got out of building
> > those and bought myself a couple of big Trumpf lasers ...
> >
> > I do notice problems with the TP in the version of LCNC I run on the
> > router, when cutting at slow speeds, you can't really notice it, but at
> > medium speeds say, 3 or 4m a minute, I see them ... my software splits
> the
> > arcs into quadrants, and I do tend to see a stop on at least one of the
> > quadrants ... it will slow to a stop, cause a cutter burn on the part and
> > then continue on.
> >
> > My header and cut for a simple circle, with entry at roughly 12 oclock
> > looks looks something like:
> >
> > %
> > N10 G21 G40 G49
> > N20 G64 P0.05
> > N30 G17
> > N40 M8
> > N50 G53 G0 Z0.00
> > N60 G53 G0 X0.00 Y0.00
> > N70 ( Load tool End Mill {12 mm})
> > N80 M6 T1
> > N90 G43 H1
> > N100 G54
> > N110 G0X0.000 Y0.000 S18000 M3
> > N120 G4 P5.0
> > N130 G0 Z21.000
> > N140 (Profile 1)
> > N150 G0X500.000Y706.000Z16.000
> > N160 G1Z0.000F900.0
> > N170 G3X294.000Y500.000I0.000J-206.000F5000.0
> > N180 G3X500.000Y294.000I206.000J0.000
> > N190 G3X706.000Y500.000I0.000J206.000
> > N200 G3X500.000Y706.000I-206.000J0.000
> > N210 G0Z16.000
> > N220 M5
> > N230 M9
> > N240 G53 G0 Z0.00
> > N250 G0X0.000Y0.000
> > N260 G53 G0 X0.00 Y0.00
> > N270 M2
> > %
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, 10 Jan 2022 at 11:41, Les Newell 
> wrote:
> >
> >> The TP has improved a lot in the last few years. My plasma runs on
> >> LinuxCNC and it's pretty smooth even on thin materials.
> >>
> >> HF is nasty. It gets into everything. If you can afford them, Hypertherm
> >> cutters use blow back ignition so no HF. They are very popular on CNC
> >> plasma for this reason.
> >>
> >> Les
> >>
> >>
> >> On 08/01/2022 12:32, Robin Szemeti via Emc-users wrote:
> >>> I built a few plasmas with EMC, the trajectory planner was a problem at
> >> the
> >>> time with it not being able to smoothly keep going between IJ arcs.
> This
> >>> can cause problems in thin sheet ... maybe it is better now.
> >>>
> >>> I always had trouble keeping the HF from the arc start out of the
> >>> electronics.
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
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> >>
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>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] CNC controlled, plasma torch

[Les Newell]

How old is your copy of LCNC? I just ran your code on my plasma and it 
ran smoothly with no detectable hesitation on the transitions between arcs.


Les

On 10/01/2022 12:08, Robin Szemeti via Emc-users wrote:

I've not built any plasmas in years :)  I eventually got out of building
those and bought myself a couple of big Trumpf lasers ...

I do notice problems with the TP in the version of LCNC I run on the
router, when cutting at slow speeds, you can't really notice it, but at
medium speeds say, 3 or 4m a minute, I see them ... my software splits the
arcs into quadrants, and I do tend to see a stop on at least one of the
quadrants ... it will slow to a stop, cause a cutter burn on the part and
then continue on.

My header and cut for a simple circle, with entry at roughly 12 oclock
looks looks something like:

%
N10 G21 G40 G49
N20 G64 P0.05
N30 G17
N40 M8
N50 G53 G0 Z0.00
N60 G53 G0 X0.00 Y0.00
N70 ( Load tool End Mill {12 mm})
N80 M6 T1
N90 G43 H1
N100 G54
N110 G0X0.000 Y0.000 S18000 M3
N120 G4 P5.0
N130 G0 Z21.000
N140 (Profile 1)
N150 G0X500.000Y706.000Z16.000
N160 G1Z0.000F900.0
N170 G3X294.000Y500.000I0.000J-206.000F5000.0
N180 G3X500.000Y294.000I206.000J0.000
N190 G3X706.000Y500.000I0.000J206.000
N200 G3X500.000Y706.000I-206.000J0.000
N210 G0Z16.000
N220 M5
N230 M9
N240 G53 G0 Z0.00
N250 G0X0.000Y0.000
N260 G53 G0 X0.00 Y0.00
N270 M2
%



On Mon, 10 Jan 2022 at 11:41, Les Newell  wrote:


The TP has improved a lot in the last few years. My plasma runs on
LinuxCNC and it's pretty smooth even on thin materials.

HF is nasty. It gets into everything. If you can afford them, Hypertherm
cutters use blow back ignition so no HF. They are very popular on CNC
plasma for this reason.

Les


On 08/01/2022 12:32, Robin Szemeti via Emc-users wrote:

I built a few plasmas with EMC, the trajectory planner was a problem at

the

time with it not being able to smoothly keep going between IJ arcs. This
can cause problems in thin sheet ... maybe it is better now.

I always had trouble keeping the HF from the arc start out of the
electronics.



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Re: [Emc-users] CNC controlled, plasma torch

[Robin Szemeti via Emc-users]

I've not built any plasmas in years :)  I eventually got out of building
those and bought myself a couple of big Trumpf lasers ...

I do notice problems with the TP in the version of LCNC I run on the
router, when cutting at slow speeds, you can't really notice it, but at
medium speeds say, 3 or 4m a minute, I see them ... my software splits the
arcs into quadrants, and I do tend to see a stop on at least one of the
quadrants ... it will slow to a stop, cause a cutter burn on the part and
then continue on.

My header and cut for a simple circle, with entry at roughly 12 oclock
looks looks something like:

%
N10 G21 G40 G49
N20 G64 P0.05
N30 G17
N40 M8
N50 G53 G0 Z0.00
N60 G53 G0 X0.00 Y0.00
N70 ( Load tool End Mill {12 mm})
N80 M6 T1
N90 G43 H1
N100 G54
N110 G0X0.000 Y0.000 S18000 M3
N120 G4 P5.0
N130 G0 Z21.000
N140 (Profile 1)
N150 G0X500.000Y706.000Z16.000
N160 G1Z0.000F900.0
N170 G3X294.000Y500.000I0.000J-206.000F5000.0
N180 G3X500.000Y294.000I206.000J0.000
N190 G3X706.000Y500.000I0.000J206.000
N200 G3X500.000Y706.000I-206.000J0.000
N210 G0Z16.000
N220 M5
N230 M9
N240 G53 G0 Z0.00
N250 G0X0.000Y0.000
N260 G53 G0 X0.00 Y0.00
N270 M2
%



On Mon, 10 Jan 2022 at 11:41, Les Newell  wrote:

> The TP has improved a lot in the last few years. My plasma runs on
> LinuxCNC and it's pretty smooth even on thin materials.
>
> HF is nasty. It gets into everything. If you can afford them, Hypertherm
> cutters use blow back ignition so no HF. They are very popular on CNC
> plasma for this reason.
>
> Les
>
>
> On 08/01/2022 12:32, Robin Szemeti via Emc-users wrote:
> > I built a few plasmas with EMC, the trajectory planner was a problem at
> the
> > time with it not being able to smoothly keep going between IJ arcs. This
> > can cause problems in thin sheet ... maybe it is better now.
> >
> > I always had trouble keeping the HF from the arc start out of the
> > electronics.
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] CNC controlled, plasma torch

[Les Newell]

The TP has improved a lot in the last few years. My plasma runs on 
LinuxCNC and it's pretty smooth even on thin materials.


HF is nasty. It gets into everything. If you can afford them, Hypertherm 
cutters use blow back ignition so no HF. They are very popular on CNC 
plasma for this reason.


Les


On 08/01/2022 12:32, Robin Szemeti via Emc-users wrote:

I built a few plasmas with EMC, the trajectory planner was a problem at the
time with it not being able to smoothly keep going between IJ arcs. This
can cause problems in thin sheet ... maybe it is better now.

I always had trouble keeping the HF from the arc start out of the
electronics.




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Re: [Emc-users] CNC controlled, plasma torch

[Rob C]

like the idea with the funnel.

there are no issues with the planner and look ahead.  g64 options help
tremendously with path blending

I am just a hobby user

On Sat, 8 Jan 2022, 15:47 Milosz K.,  wrote:

> I cut near flammables and my solution is cutting over a water bed with a
> slicone funnel on the torch.
>
> This is a photo for illustration.
> https://images.app.goo.gl/cUFKnX5iMdVrHPTH6
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 7, 2022, 4:45 PM Nicklas SB Karlsson  wrote:
>
> > Anyone used Linuxcnc with plasma torch here.
> >
> >
> > There is another major problem, one third of building is allocated for
> > firewood storage. Need a good way to keep sparks away from it.
> >
> >
> > Nicklas Karlsson
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
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> >
>
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Re: [Emc-users] CNC controlled, plasma torch

[Milosz K.]

I cut near flammables and my solution is cutting over a water bed with a
slicone funnel on the torch.

This is a photo for illustration.
https://images.app.goo.gl/cUFKnX5iMdVrHPTH6



On Fri, Jan 7, 2022, 4:45 PM Nicklas SB Karlsson  wrote:

> Anyone used Linuxcnc with plasma torch here.
>
>
> There is another major problem, one third of building is allocated for
> firewood storage. Need a good way to keep sparks away from it.
>
>
> Nicklas Karlsson
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] CNC controlled, plasma torch

[andy pugh]

On Sat, 8 Jan 2022 at 14:27, Robin Szemeti via Emc-users
 wrote:
>
> It was some years ago when I tried it, it was fine on thicker sheet, but
> not thin sheet, like I said, I expect there have been improvements in the
> trajectory planner since then.

There have been improvements to the TP and also some plasma-specific
tweaks, to the extent that I have read that LinuxCNC + PlasmaC is now
at least as good as the commercial controls and in many cases better.
(Note that I have never run a Plasma, this is purely from reading the
forum posts)

There is a plasma primer in the docs:
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.8/html/plasma/plasma-cnc-primer.html

There is a forum section on plasma cutters here:
https://forum.linuxcnc.org/plasma-laser
And a section specific to the Plasmac interface:
https://forum.linuxcnc.org/plasmac

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] CNC controlled, plasma torch

[Robin Szemeti via Emc-users]

It was some years ago when I tried it, it was fine on thicker sheet, but
not thin sheet, like I said, I expect there have been improvements in the
trajectory planner since then.

The basic problem with plasma is it needs to be kept burning and metal
passing at a constant speed.  You can't just stop .. well, you can, but the
arc will eventually fail. In thick sheet, with slow speeds, you can get
away with it, and indeed the decel and accel to/from the stop at slow
speeds are fractions of a second.   In thin sheet at 6m+ a minute,
decelerating to a stop and starting up again is noticeable and can lead to
loss of arc.

I was building the machines commercially at the time, and it did cause
headaches in thin sheet with high current machines, but it's probably fixed
now.

On Sat, 8 Jan 2022 at 13:24, Rob C  wrote:

> linuxcnc works just fine with plasma
>
> take a look at PlasmaC.
>
> lots of users including many for commercial purposes.
>
> On Sat, 8 Jan 2022, 12:36 Robin Szemeti via Emc-users, <
> emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:
>
>> I built a few plasmas with EMC, the trajectory planner was a problem at
>> the
>> time with it not being able to smoothly keep going between IJ arcs. This
>> can cause problems in thin sheet ... maybe it is better now.
>>
>> I always had trouble keeping the HF from the arc start out of the
>> electronics.
>>
>> On Sat, 8 Jan 2022 at 09:58, Rob C  wrote:
>>
>> > you could put sides on it that will catch any sparks, or an enclosure
>> > around it, same as I have for a 3d printer so it has its own heated
>> > environment.
>> >
>> > you could also add a water table that will catch all downward metal
>> swarf.
>> >
>> > On Fri, 7 Jan 2022, 21:51 Thaddeus Waldner,  wrote:
>> >
>> > > Use a submerged torch. This will also take care of the smoke.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Thaddeus Waldner
>> > > Newdale School
>> > > Elkton, SD 57026
>> > > 
>> > > From: Nicklas SB Karlsson 
>> > > Sent: Friday, January 7, 2022 3:13:17 PM
>> > > To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net 
>> > > Subject: [Emc-users] CNC controlled, plasma torch
>> > >
>> > > Anyone used Linuxcnc with plasma torch here.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > There is another major problem, one third of building is allocated for
>> > > firewood storage. Need a good way to keep sparks away from it.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Nicklas Karlsson
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > ___
>> > > Emc-users mailing list
>> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>> > >
>> > > ___
>> > > Emc-users mailing list
>> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>> > >
>> >
>> > ___
>> > Emc-users mailing list
>> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>> >
>>
>> ___
>> Emc-users mailing list
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>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>>
>

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Re: [Emc-users] CNC controlled, plasma torch

[Rob C]

linuxcnc works just fine with plasma

take a look at PlasmaC.

lots of users including many for commercial purposes.

On Sat, 8 Jan 2022, 12:36 Robin Szemeti via Emc-users, <
emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:

> I built a few plasmas with EMC, the trajectory planner was a problem at the
> time with it not being able to smoothly keep going between IJ arcs. This
> can cause problems in thin sheet ... maybe it is better now.
>
> I always had trouble keeping the HF from the arc start out of the
> electronics.
>
> On Sat, 8 Jan 2022 at 09:58, Rob C  wrote:
>
> > you could put sides on it that will catch any sparks, or an enclosure
> > around it, same as I have for a 3d printer so it has its own heated
> > environment.
> >
> > you could also add a water table that will catch all downward metal
> swarf.
> >
> > On Fri, 7 Jan 2022, 21:51 Thaddeus Waldner,  wrote:
> >
> > > Use a submerged torch. This will also take care of the smoke.
> > >
> > >
> > > Thaddeus Waldner
> > > Newdale School
> > > Elkton, SD 57026
> > > ________
> > > From: Nicklas SB Karlsson 
> > > Sent: Friday, January 7, 2022 3:13:17 PM
> > > To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net 
> > > Subject: [Emc-users] CNC controlled, plasma torch
> > >
> > > Anyone used Linuxcnc with plasma torch here.
> > >
> > >
> > > There is another major problem, one third of building is allocated for
> > > firewood storage. Need a good way to keep sparks away from it.
> > >
> > >
> > > Nicklas Karlsson
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
>
> ___
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>

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Re: [Emc-users] CNC controlled, plasma torch

[Robin Szemeti via Emc-users]

I built a few plasmas with EMC, the trajectory planner was a problem at the
time with it not being able to smoothly keep going between IJ arcs. This
can cause problems in thin sheet ... maybe it is better now.

I always had trouble keeping the HF from the arc start out of the
electronics.

On Sat, 8 Jan 2022 at 09:58, Rob C  wrote:

> you could put sides on it that will catch any sparks, or an enclosure
> around it, same as I have for a 3d printer so it has its own heated
> environment.
>
> you could also add a water table that will catch all downward metal swarf.
>
> On Fri, 7 Jan 2022, 21:51 Thaddeus Waldner,  wrote:
>
> > Use a submerged torch. This will also take care of the smoke.
> >
> >
> > Thaddeus Waldner
> > Newdale School
> > Elkton, SD 57026
> > 
> > From: Nicklas SB Karlsson 
> > Sent: Friday, January 7, 2022 3:13:17 PM
> > To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net 
> > Subject: [Emc-users] CNC controlled, plasma torch
> >
> > Anyone used Linuxcnc with plasma torch here.
> >
> >
> > There is another major problem, one third of building is allocated for
> > firewood storage. Need a good way to keep sparks away from it.
> >
> >
> > Nicklas Karlsson
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>

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Re: [Emc-users] CNC controlled, plasma torch

[Rob C]

you could put sides on it that will catch any sparks, or an enclosure
around it, same as I have for a 3d printer so it has its own heated
environment.

you could also add a water table that will catch all downward metal swarf.

On Fri, 7 Jan 2022, 21:51 Thaddeus Waldner,  wrote:

> Use a submerged torch. This will also take care of the smoke.
>
>
> Thaddeus Waldner
> Newdale School
> Elkton, SD 57026
> 
> From: Nicklas SB Karlsson 
> Sent: Friday, January 7, 2022 3:13:17 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net 
> Subject: [Emc-users] CNC controlled, plasma torch
>
> Anyone used Linuxcnc with plasma torch here.
>
>
> There is another major problem, one third of building is allocated for
> firewood storage. Need a good way to keep sparks away from it.
>
>
> Nicklas Karlsson
>
>
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>

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Re: [Emc-users] CNC controlled, plasma torch

[Thaddeus Waldner]

Use a submerged torch. This will also take care of the smoke.


Thaddeus Waldner
Newdale School
Elkton, SD 57026

From: Nicklas SB Karlsson 
Sent: Friday, January 7, 2022 3:13:17 PM
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net 
Subject: [Emc-users] CNC controlled, plasma torch

Anyone used Linuxcnc with plasma torch here.


There is another major problem, one third of building is allocated for
firewood storage. Need a good way to keep sparks away from it.


Nicklas Karlsson



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[Emc-users] CNC controlled, plasma torch

[Nicklas SB Karlsson]

Anyone used Linuxcnc with plasma torch here.


There is another major problem, one third of building is allocated for 
firewood storage. Need a good way to keep sparks away from it.



Nicklas Karlsson



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Re: [Emc-users] cnc lathe retrofit

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 28 December 2020 04:21:37 andrew beck wrote:

> Just another little update.
>
> Got the spindle running.
>
> Then connected the existing spindle encoder up and can't see any
> counting of pulses in the 7i77 encoder raw counts.
>
I _think_ the 7i77 has the same encoder facilities as the 7i76 has, and 
the 7i76D has 3 flea clip jumpers to switch it from TTL signals to 
differential signals.

The differential is quite low voltage and not sufficient to be seen by an 
input expecting to see a single ended TTL signal. So double-check your 
wiring and the 7i77 for missplaced jumpers.

> Would love to have a List of reasons why not.  Just so I can trouble
> shoot it.

You will probably need an o-scope to confirm what you have.

> Things I know.
>
> It is a 5v differential encoder.

Meaning its outputs are about 100 millivolts of change, centered on a 2.5 
volt bias.

> With A B Z channels.
>
> I think it is 1024 ppr.
>
> Wires are all pretty clearly marked.
> I think I got it all right.  Though I had to run it through a plug and
> transfer cable signals to other colors so could have made a mistake.

Another possibility. But diff encoders cables  are both well shielded and 
generally long enough. I just bought another 1024 ppr Omron because the 
one on my G0704's spindle motor was getting flaky and that cable is a 
tad over 6 feet long. I wasn't aware when I bought the original, that it 
was a diff version. But a pair of $2 rs485 to TTL adapters fixed that up 
perfectly once they were jumper-ed as rx only. But I took the original 
apart to see what was wrong a few months back, but it looked ok 
internally, so put it back together, which fixed it and its still 
working fine. But on the back of that motor, its being spun at least 2x 
its rated max speed. Pretty decent for a $21 encoder.

> https://youtu.be/kV4vqhOgjcc
>
>
> Regards
>
> Andrew
>
> On Mon, Dec 28, 2020, 1:00 PM andrew beck  
wrote:
> > Hey everyone just read all the replies.
> >
> > Definitely food for thought.
> >
> > Andy I currently do almost exactly what you do with the e stop in my
> > mill.
> >
> > I'll do something similar with the enables tying in a relay to
> > bypass them with the e stop and then letting linuxcnc know about it
> >
> > On Sun, Dec 27, 2020, 3:17 AM Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> >> On Saturday 26 December 2020 04:57:38 andrew beck wrote:
> >> > hey everyone
> >> >
> >> > just for your interest here is a cnc lathe I am retrofitting here
> >> > in NZ
> >> >
> >> > link to video on youtube
> >> > 
> >> >
> >> > still got a whole lot of work and need to sort out analog servo
> >> > drive stuff tomorrow but thought I would send a email anyway
> >> >
> >> > also what do people do for E stop circuits with analog systems? I
> >> > have only used a  step direction system before this
> >> >
> >> > the servo drive has a "servo on input)  that allows power to
> >> > motor.  I think the enable input from 7i77 should trigger this on
> >> > and off.  I want my big estop to also cut power too though so
> >> > that I am not relying on software as that is not safe.  current
> >> > plan is to just put a relay in the servo enable circuit from 7i77
> >> > to servo drive.  which gets cut by the Estop switch circuit. 
> >> > seems simple enough
> >> >
> >> > would love any ideas though
> >> >
> >> > and any things to watch out for.
> >> >
> >> > I know about checking encoder direction first and leaving motors
> >> > on bench at first and all that sort of stuff.  I will just take
> >> > it easy
> >> >
> >> > regards
> >>
> >> Wow, Andrew.  That is a lot more machine than anything I've got.
> >> And separate e-stop circuits are something that I have been lacking
> >> in doing. I have tended to make all that stuff as slaves to the
> >> motion enable signal, controlled by the F2 key on the keyboard,
> >> which in turn controls all other machine power, and has worked
> >> flawlessly. But it is not a guard against a computer crash which
> >> really needs an independent way to shut down the power. I've
> >> considered a multipole relay which would be in series with the
> >> enable signal, which could shut off all power to the machine
> >> independent of the computer, and I bought several of the latching
> >> switches from the mini-lathe parts list, but haven't found that
> >> famous round tuit yet. But I think that idea has the best merit,
> >> bypassing, and over-riding anything the computer might decide to
> >> make the machine do.
> >>
> >> I did change the motors and drives on my Sheldon this fall, from
> >> normal steppers to the newer 3 phase stepper/servo's and I am very
> >> happy with the results of feeding the FAULT signals back into
> >> LinuxCNC, effectively toggling the F2 button there. I traded a 1600
> >> oz/in nema 34 on the z screw for a 3NM nema-23, as much because the
> >> 1600 shook tools off the whole machine, doubling my Z speed rapids,
> >> and pulled a 270 oz/in nema-23 off the X in 

Re: [Emc-users] cnc lathe retrofit

[andy pugh]

On Mon, 28 Dec 2020 at 09:23, andrew beck  wrote:

> I think I got it all right.  Though I had to run it through a plug and
> transfer cable signals to other colors so could have made a mistake.

Sounds like a job for an oscilloscope, but you should be able to see
the output change with a multimeter, and see that there is 5V power.
Look in Halscope first, to see if you can see the input pins changing
state, though.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] cnc lathe retrofit

[andrew beck]

Just another little update.

Got the spindle running.

Then connected the existing spindle encoder up and can't see any counting
of pulses in the 7i77 encoder raw counts.

Would love to have a List of reasons why not.  Just so I can trouble shoot
it.

Things I know.

It is a 5v differential encoder.

With A B Z channels.

I think it is 1024 ppr.

Wires are all pretty clearly marked.
I think I got it all right.  Though I had to run it through a plug and
transfer cable signals to other colors so could have made a mistake.


https://youtu.be/kV4vqhOgjcc


Regards

Andrew

On Mon, Dec 28, 2020, 1:00 PM andrew beck  wrote:

> Hey everyone just read all the replies.
>
> Definitely food for thought.
>
> Andy I currently do almost exactly what you do with the e stop in my mill.
>
> I'll do something similar with the enables tying in a relay to bypass them
> with the e stop and then letting linuxcnc know about it
>
> On Sun, Dec 27, 2020, 3:17 AM Gene Heskett  wrote:
>
>> On Saturday 26 December 2020 04:57:38 andrew beck wrote:
>>
>> > hey everyone
>> >
>> > just for your interest here is a cnc lathe I am retrofitting here in
>> > NZ
>> >
>> > link to video on youtube 
>> >
>> > still got a whole lot of work and need to sort out analog servo drive
>> > stuff tomorrow but thought I would send a email anyway
>> >
>> > also what do people do for E stop circuits with analog systems? I have
>> > only used a  step direction system before this
>> >
>> > the servo drive has a "servo on input)  that allows power to motor.  I
>> > think the enable input from 7i77 should trigger this on and off.  I
>> > want my big estop to also cut power too though so that I am not
>> > relying on software as that is not safe.  current plan is to just put
>> > a relay in the servo enable circuit from 7i77 to servo drive.  which
>> > gets cut by the Estop switch circuit.  seems simple enough
>> >
>> > would love any ideas though
>> >
>> > and any things to watch out for.
>> >
>> > I know about checking encoder direction first and leaving motors on
>> > bench at first and all that sort of stuff.  I will just take it easy
>> >
>> > regards
>>
>> Wow, Andrew.  That is a lot more machine than anything I've got. And
>> separate e-stop circuits are something that I have been lacking in
>> doing. I have tended to make all that stuff as slaves to the motion
>> enable signal, controlled by the F2 key on the keyboard, which in turn
>> controls all other machine power, and has worked flawlessly. But it is
>> not a guard against a computer crash which really needs an independent
>> way to shut down the power. I've considered a multipole relay which
>> would be in series with the enable signal, which could shut off all
>> power to the machine independent of the computer, and I bought several
>> of the latching switches from the mini-lathe parts list, but haven't
>> found that famous round tuit yet. But I think that idea has the best
>> merit, bypassing, and over-riding anything the computer might decide to
>> make the machine do.
>>
>> I did change the motors and drives on my Sheldon this fall, from normal
>> steppers to the newer 3 phase stepper/servo's and I am very happy with
>> the results of feeding the FAULT signals back into LinuxCNC, effectively
>> toggling the F2 button there. I traded a 1600 oz/in nema 34 on the z
>> screw for a 3NM nema-23, as much because the 1600 shook tools off the
>> whole machine, doubling my Z speed rapids, and pulled a 270 oz/in
>> nema-23 off the X in favor of a 2NM version of the 3 phase drive. The
>> whole machine now can move 2-3x faster, and moves like casper the ghost.
>>
>> I haven't tested the X because the screw is so small and I might damage
>> it with the 2NM motor geared 2/1, but I can now mount a carbide tool,
>> position it to hit a chuck jaw, and drive it into the chuck jaw at 2
>> ipm, from the Z, it detects the contact and faults, with the Z bouncing
>> back from jaw contact by about .010" as the power goes off, without
>> damage to the chuck jaw or to the carbide chip in the tool. With a 25mm
>> Z screw, that 1600 would have crushed the chip and bent the tool if it
>> were pinned to the carriage, which it is not.
>>
>> That to me was worth the nominally $250 to swap the motors. And although
>> I've been warned that some have noted the stepper servos can lose
>> counts, the 3 phase drives I have used so far haven't lost a step. I'd
>> submit that those reporting such as problem have noise in their systems
>> or are pushing the step timing.
>>
>> Anyway, that's my take on it, but if anyone has a good pattern to make
>> round tuits that isn't already copyrighted, I'll make some for my
>> friends as several have lamented they haven't found one yet.
>>
>> That would be a piece of cake for my 6040 with its new 2.2kw spindle.
>>
>> Now, lets all hope that 2021 will be a better year, 2020 was/is the pits.
>>
>> > Andrew
>> >
>> > 

Re: [Emc-users] cnc lathe retrofit

[andrew beck]

Hey everyone just read all the replies.

Definitely food for thought.

Andy I currently do almost exactly what you do with the e stop in my mill.

I'll do something similar with the enables tying in a relay to bypass them
with the e stop and then letting linuxcnc know about it

On Sun, Dec 27, 2020, 3:17 AM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Saturday 26 December 2020 04:57:38 andrew beck wrote:
>
> > hey everyone
> >
> > just for your interest here is a cnc lathe I am retrofitting here in
> > NZ
> >
> > link to video on youtube 
> >
> > still got a whole lot of work and need to sort out analog servo drive
> > stuff tomorrow but thought I would send a email anyway
> >
> > also what do people do for E stop circuits with analog systems? I have
> > only used a  step direction system before this
> >
> > the servo drive has a "servo on input)  that allows power to motor.  I
> > think the enable input from 7i77 should trigger this on and off.  I
> > want my big estop to also cut power too though so that I am not
> > relying on software as that is not safe.  current plan is to just put
> > a relay in the servo enable circuit from 7i77 to servo drive.  which
> > gets cut by the Estop switch circuit.  seems simple enough
> >
> > would love any ideas though
> >
> > and any things to watch out for.
> >
> > I know about checking encoder direction first and leaving motors on
> > bench at first and all that sort of stuff.  I will just take it easy
> >
> > regards
>
> Wow, Andrew.  That is a lot more machine than anything I've got. And
> separate e-stop circuits are something that I have been lacking in
> doing. I have tended to make all that stuff as slaves to the motion
> enable signal, controlled by the F2 key on the keyboard, which in turn
> controls all other machine power, and has worked flawlessly. But it is
> not a guard against a computer crash which really needs an independent
> way to shut down the power. I've considered a multipole relay which
> would be in series with the enable signal, which could shut off all
> power to the machine independent of the computer, and I bought several
> of the latching switches from the mini-lathe parts list, but haven't
> found that famous round tuit yet. But I think that idea has the best
> merit, bypassing, and over-riding anything the computer might decide to
> make the machine do.
>
> I did change the motors and drives on my Sheldon this fall, from normal
> steppers to the newer 3 phase stepper/servo's and I am very happy with
> the results of feeding the FAULT signals back into LinuxCNC, effectively
> toggling the F2 button there. I traded a 1600 oz/in nema 34 on the z
> screw for a 3NM nema-23, as much because the 1600 shook tools off the
> whole machine, doubling my Z speed rapids, and pulled a 270 oz/in
> nema-23 off the X in favor of a 2NM version of the 3 phase drive. The
> whole machine now can move 2-3x faster, and moves like casper the ghost.
>
> I haven't tested the X because the screw is so small and I might damage
> it with the 2NM motor geared 2/1, but I can now mount a carbide tool,
> position it to hit a chuck jaw, and drive it into the chuck jaw at 2
> ipm, from the Z, it detects the contact and faults, with the Z bouncing
> back from jaw contact by about .010" as the power goes off, without
> damage to the chuck jaw or to the carbide chip in the tool. With a 25mm
> Z screw, that 1600 would have crushed the chip and bent the tool if it
> were pinned to the carriage, which it is not.
>
> That to me was worth the nominally $250 to swap the motors. And although
> I've been warned that some have noted the stepper servos can lose
> counts, the 3 phase drives I have used so far haven't lost a step. I'd
> submit that those reporting such as problem have noise in their systems
> or are pushing the step timing.
>
> Anyway, that's my take on it, but if anyone has a good pattern to make
> round tuits that isn't already copyrighted, I'll make some for my
> friends as several have lamented they haven't found one yet.
>
> That would be a piece of cake for my 6040 with its new 2.2kw spindle.
>
> Now, lets all hope that 2021 will be a better year, 2020 was/is the pits.
>
> > Andrew
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] cnc lathe retrofit

[andy pugh]

On Sat, 26 Dec 2020 at 21:11, Gene Heskett  wrote:

> No synchros in that gearbox? I'd be getting quotes to replace it with one
> that did.

It was built in 1916. It's perfect as it is :-)

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] cnc lathe retrofit

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 26 December 2020 13:36:18 andy pugh wrote:

> On Sat, 26 Dec 2020 at 16:49, Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> > Two additional questions. That 70 ohm 300 watt braking resistor just
> > walked up and rang my doorbell, so are you using one?
>
> I am not using one. It would be useful if I was, since I added
> on-the-fly gearshifting to the two speed box.

These spindles don't come with a gearbox. Plain old motors.

> The idea is that if it is in low gear and the spindle speed goes above
> 500 rpm then it disconnects the low-speed clutch and slows the motor
> down to the right speed to operate the high-speed clutch.
> Unfortunately the spindle slows faster than the motor, so they only
> really catch each other at zero-zero.
>
> If I had a braking resistor then I could slow the motor faster, and
> there would be more chance of catching the gear change.
>
> But the VFD is next to the motor, behind a panel that is only
> accessible once the lathe is pulled away from the wall.
> So I have not tried to add one.
>
> Downshifting goes a little better.
>
> I drive an old fire engine that has the same problem, if you are going
> up a steep hill, that the vehicle could climb in top or third gear, if
> you have to stop and go into first, there is no way to get out of
> first and you have to hold it to the top of the hill.

No synchros in that gearbox? I'd be getting quotes to replace it with one 
that did. Racers use an ignition killer for upshifts, leaning on the 
synchro rings kills the ignition until the rings are unloaded as the 
shift is completed. Mopar trannys from about 1932 have a different 
internal motion and are amenable to that in both directions, lean on the 
lever to downshift, tap the kill for long enough to unload the gears, 
the ignition comes back on and as the rpms build the synchro finishes 
the shift. An upshift is done the same way but the ignition isn't 
re-enabled until the shift is completed. Clutch pedal not required for 
either.

Those boxes weren't really rated for the hemi v8's so gear life isn't 
great usually breaking second gear idling along in 5 o-clock traffic, 
but never when I was busy showing the Chevies how its done. I did 140k 
miles in a 52 Chrysler Saratoga all on the same transmission case.  That 
car was the best concealed weapon ever in the stoplight grand prix once 
its m6 tranny and fluid drive were replaced with a 53 dodge od tranny.

That made the effective rear end gear 2.42/1. 30 mph per 1000 rpms in 
high overdrive, it could go the length of South Dakota at 3300 rpm in 
about 4 hours, on one 21 gallon tank of gas, getting 21+ mpg doing it. I 
knew a few tricks with those old carter carbs too. Even with a 10 foot 
2.5" straight pipe exiting under the rear axle it never got the laws 
attention. It could do anything I wanted it do except turn a corner. 
That hemi was simply too heavy, 1100 lbs hanging on a hoist. Lots of 
cast iron in that puppy.
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>
>
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-- 
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-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
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Re: [Emc-users] cnc lathe retrofit

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 26 December 2020 12:27:29 Jon Elson wrote:

> On 12/26/2020 10:47 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > Two additional questions. That 70 ohm 300 watt braking
> > resistor just walked up and rang my doorbell, so are you
> > using one? and if so what settings mods have you made in
> > the VFD?
>
> Mine has several settings.  There is a minimum frequency,
> below which it goes to DC injection braking.

Thanks, the booklet doesn't actually say that. What IU m seeing now hints 
at dc braking coming in below about 50 rpm. Coasting for several seconds 
before.

> You don't want to use too much DC injection as it will cause
> an abrupt stop of the motor.  Quicker braking time will
> cause more energy to go to the resistor, if you set it too
> short, the DC link may go to overvoltage.  You may have to
> just experiment a bit to find out what decel times make
> sense on your particular machine.

What I have done, but not yet on this machine because these spindles 
aren't very amenable to being encoded, is a limit3 at the input to the 
pwmgen, no PID, and a combo of an xor to detect that the command and the 
actual dir disagree, so the present state of the dir is held in a 
sample-hold until a oneshot watching the encoder times out as the input 
to the limit3 is zeroed via a mux when the dirs disagree. Once the 
encoder times out indicating the spindle has stopped or nearly so, the 
new dir is allowed thru, the input to the limit3 is restored. and that 
re-accels the motor in the new direction.

Wash, rinse and repeat at the M4->M3 turnaround at the top of the G33.1. 
Pause 4 secs to blow the tap clean and anoint it again, repeating that 
whole sequence with an increment in the depth until the hole is tapped 
to the needed depth.

But without an encoder, I can't time any of that. I have considered a 
reflective IR lashup watching the ER-nut flats go by but how would I 
separate that for an index?  So its not been attempted to be made into a 
working, albeit very coarse encoder. But that idea works very well on 
the Sheldon, and on the GO704, but TLM's magic has been limited to taper  
tricks with g73, that quick turnaround code has not been hauled to it. I 
should, but its propensity for breaking drive parts has made me a bit 
reticent to apply this quick turnaround code there. I do have a oneshot 
watching the encoder, but its there to issue an F2 off if I leave the 
head in neutral. Easy to do since the lever is on the back of the head 
and its position isn't tallied.

> If you rigid tap, you 
> need a braking resistor to reduce the overrun after you get
> to desired depth.

Rigid tappiing also needs an encoder on the spindle, which it does not 
have. A floating tap holder maybe, but torque enough for more than a 
4-40 tap is highly problematic.

Is there an aftermarket encoder for these 24k rpm spindles?

> Jon
>
>
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-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
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Re: [Emc-users] cnc lathe retrofit

[andy pugh]

On Sat, 26 Dec 2020 at 16:49, Gene Heskett  wrote:

> Two additional questions. That 70 ohm 300 watt braking resistor just
> walked up and rang my doorbell, so are you using one?

I am not using one. It would be useful if I was, since I added
on-the-fly gearshifting to the two speed box.

The idea is that if it is in low gear and the spindle speed goes above
500 rpm then it disconnects the low-speed clutch and slows the motor
down to the right speed to operate the high-speed clutch.
Unfortunately the spindle slows faster than the motor, so they only
really catch each other at zero-zero.

If I had a braking resistor then I could slow the motor faster, and
there would be more chance of catching the gear change.

But the VFD is next to the motor, behind a panel that is only
accessible once the lathe is pulled away from the wall.
So I have not tried to add one.

Downshifting goes a little better.

I drive an old fire engine that has the same problem, if you are going
up a steep hill, that the vehicle could climb in top or third gear, if
you have to stop and go into first, there is no way to get out of
first and you have to hold it to the top of the hill.


--
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] cnc lathe retrofit

[Jon Elson]

On 12/26/2020 10:47 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
Two additional questions. That 70 ohm 300 watt braking 
resistor just walked up and rang my doorbell, so are you 
using one? and if so what settings mods have you made in 
the VFD?
Mine has several settings.  There is a minimum frequency, 
below which it goes to DC injection braking.
You don't want to use too much DC injection as it will cause 
an abrupt stop of the motor.  Quicker braking time will 
cause more energy to go to the resistor, if you set it too 
short, the DC link may go to overvoltage.  You may have to 
just experiment a bit to find out what decel times make 
sense on your particular machine.  If you rigid tap, you 
need a braking resistor to reduce the overrun after you get 
to desired depth.


Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] cnc lathe retrofit

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 26 December 2020 11:23:20 Gene Heskett wrote:

> On Saturday 26 December 2020 10:08:47 andy pugh wrote:

[...]

> I think we are on about the same page, just need to find the round
> tuit.

Two additional questions. That 70 ohm 300 watt braking resistor just 
walked up and rang my doorbell, so are you using one? and if so what 
settings mods have you made in the VFD?

Thanks Andy.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] cnc lathe retrofit

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 26 December 2020 10:08:47 andy pugh wrote:

> On Sat, 26 Dec 2020 at 10:00, andrew beck  
wrote:
> > also what do people do for E stop circuits with analog systems? I
> > have only used a  step direction system before this
>
> On my lathe the main servo power supply comes via a contactor with a
> 24V coil, and that coil power passes through two e-stop switches.
>
> LinuxCNC controls the 24V contactor coil, but the e-stop switches in
> series in that circuit can over-ride.
> I couldn't  remember if the contactor was controlled via an ssr, or
> whether it's directly from a 7i84 output. So I found this photo:
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/7VSURFqEFVq9s3bk8 which suggests an SSR for
> the main relay.

Same here, I have a pile of the hoymc(sp?) 40 amp 600 volt SSR's in such 
circuits already. In fact since my field power is 12 volts, that enough 
to fire 2 of them in series, so one 7i76D output controls both sides of 
the 250volt to the new vfd on the 6040.  I can see the reflection of the 
lit leds thru a small hole in the box cover. Adding a contact from a 
relay in series with that signal would be easily done.  But I'm not done 
yet.

The mister draws enough air it keeps a bigger 125 psi 2hp compressor 
moderately busy, and HOT, so since it does not need that much air 
pressure, I've bought one of those car tire compressors but with a 120 
volt motor, so it will grow a relay to turn it on with the misters pump 
circuit. With timers running it, it outputs about 1/4 drop of liquid 5 
to 20 times a second, not enough to flood the work but does keep the 
tool wet.

But its a lot noisier than I expected and not muffle-able as it has no 
identifiable intake port, so I'll have to put it in a noise containing 
box yet to be made. Suspended on bike tire innertube straps I think.

As is from the bigger compressor, it keeps a 1/8" tool wet with kool-mist 
and clean enough I have cut out the motor mounts for the BS-1 from 1/2" 
alu with one tool, at 14k revs for a total cut length of nearly a meter, 
leaving a beautiful finish. Feed depth increments cannot be seen in the 
finished cut, moving half a mm deep a pass at 250mm feeds. This will, at 
virtually no head pressure, supply enough air to sweep away some of the 
alu mud the existing setup doesn't.  And so far has used less than half 
an 8 oz coke bottle of kool-mist mix.

> There is a wire back from the 24V coil terminals to a 7i84 input. That
> is used to inform LinuxCNC if the e-stops are activated, triggering
> the software e-stop and turning the machine off.

> I seem to recall making sure that there was a protection diode, so
> that the voltage as the coil turned off didn't damage the 7i84 input

I forgot to put one in on one of my relay circuits and I have a 7i76D 
port that may stick on, but hasn't since I installed the diode. Dumb old 
man...

> pin.
>
> So, e-stop drops out the contactor, the drives turn off, LinuxCNC
> spots that the coil is de-energised and e-stops itself to match.

I think we are on about the same page, just need to find the round tuit. 

Thanks Andy.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
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Re: [Emc-users] cnc lathe retrofit

[andy pugh]

On Sat, 26 Dec 2020 at 10:00, andrew beck  wrote:

> also what do people do for E stop circuits with analog systems? I have only
> used a  step direction system before this

On my lathe the main servo power supply comes via a contactor with a
24V coil, and that coil power passes through two e-stop switches.

LinuxCNC controls the 24V contactor coil, but the e-stop switches in
series in that circuit can over-ride.
I couldn't  remember if the contactor was controlled via an ssr, or
whether it's directly from a 7i84 output. So I found this photo:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/7VSURFqEFVq9s3bk8 which suggests an SSR for
the main relay.

There is a wire back from the 24V coil terminals to a 7i84 input. That
is used to inform LinuxCNC if the e-stops are activated, triggering
the software e-stop and turning the machine off.
I seem to recall making sure that there was a protection diode, so
that the voltage as the coil turned off didn't damage the 7i84 input
pin.

So, e-stop drops out the contactor, the drives turn off, LinuxCNC
spots that the coil is de-energised and e-stops itself to match.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] cnc lathe retrofit

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 26 December 2020 04:57:38 andrew beck wrote:

> hey everyone
>
> just for your interest here is a cnc lathe I am retrofitting here in
> NZ
>
> link to video on youtube 
>
> still got a whole lot of work and need to sort out analog servo drive
> stuff tomorrow but thought I would send a email anyway
>
> also what do people do for E stop circuits with analog systems? I have
> only used a  step direction system before this
>
> the servo drive has a "servo on input)  that allows power to motor.  I
> think the enable input from 7i77 should trigger this on and off.  I
> want my big estop to also cut power too though so that I am not
> relying on software as that is not safe.  current plan is to just put
> a relay in the servo enable circuit from 7i77 to servo drive.  which
> gets cut by the Estop switch circuit.  seems simple enough
>
> would love any ideas though
>
> and any things to watch out for.
>
> I know about checking encoder direction first and leaving motors on
> bench at first and all that sort of stuff.  I will just take it easy
>
> regards

Wow, Andrew.  That is a lot more machine than anything I've got. And 
separate e-stop circuits are something that I have been lacking in 
doing. I have tended to make all that stuff as slaves to the motion 
enable signal, controlled by the F2 key on the keyboard, which in turn 
controls all other machine power, and has worked flawlessly. But it is 
not a guard against a computer crash which really needs an independent 
way to shut down the power. I've considered a multipole relay which 
would be in series with the enable signal, which could shut off all 
power to the machine independent of the computer, and I bought several 
of the latching switches from the mini-lathe parts list, but haven't 
found that famous round tuit yet. But I think that idea has the best 
merit, bypassing, and over-riding anything the computer might decide to 
make the machine do.

I did change the motors and drives on my Sheldon this fall, from normal 
steppers to the newer 3 phase stepper/servo's and I am very happy with 
the results of feeding the FAULT signals back into LinuxCNC, effectively 
toggling the F2 button there. I traded a 1600 oz/in nema 34 on the z 
screw for a 3NM nema-23, as much because the 1600 shook tools off the 
whole machine, doubling my Z speed rapids, and pulled a 270 oz/in 
nema-23 off the X in favor of a 2NM version of the 3 phase drive. The 
whole machine now can move 2-3x faster, and moves like casper the ghost.

I haven't tested the X because the screw is so small and I might damage 
it with the 2NM motor geared 2/1, but I can now mount a carbide tool, 
position it to hit a chuck jaw, and drive it into the chuck jaw at 2 
ipm, from the Z, it detects the contact and faults, with the Z bouncing 
back from jaw contact by about .010" as the power goes off, without 
damage to the chuck jaw or to the carbide chip in the tool. With a 25mm 
Z screw, that 1600 would have crushed the chip and bent the tool if it 
were pinned to the carriage, which it is not.

That to me was worth the nominally $250 to swap the motors. And although 
I've been warned that some have noted the stepper servos can lose 
counts, the 3 phase drives I have used so far haven't lost a step. I'd 
submit that those reporting such as problem have noise in their systems 
or are pushing the step timing.

Anyway, that's my take on it, but if anyone has a good pattern to make 
round tuits that isn't already copyrighted, I'll make some for my 
friends as several have lamented they haven't found one yet.

That would be a piece of cake for my 6040 with its new 2.2kw spindle.

Now, lets all hope that 2021 will be a better year, 2020 was/is the pits.

> Andrew
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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[Emc-users] cnc lathe retrofit

[andrew beck]

hey everyone

just for your interest here is a cnc lathe I am retrofitting here in NZ

link to video on youtube 

still got a whole lot of work and need to sort out analog servo drive stuff
tomorrow but thought I would send a email anyway

also what do people do for E stop circuits with analog systems? I have only
used a  step direction system before this

the servo drive has a "servo on input)  that allows power to motor.  I
think the enable input from 7i77 should trigger this on and off.  I want my
big estop to also cut power too though so that I am not relying on software
as that is not safe.  current plan is to just put a relay in the servo
enable circuit from 7i77 to servo drive.  which gets cut by the Estop
switch circuit.  seems simple enough

would love any ideas though

and any things to watch out for.

I know about checking encoder direction first and leaving motors on bench
at first and all that sort of stuff.  I will just take it easy

regards

Andrew

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Re: [Emc-users] cnc axis "Touch Off"

[andy pugh]

On Fri, 11 Sep 2020 at 16:28, dave engvall  wrote:

> I've always done this the hard way by going
> back to the CAM. My brain is pretty well fried but I think a bit of
> matrix algebra would do this for you.

There is no need for complex maths. You can mirror a part simply by
changing the sign of every X move. (and probably I offset, if using
centre format arcs)

There is a tool that can do this for you directly on the G-code:
https://www.editcnc.com/m/mIndex.html (maybe others too)

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] cnc axis "Touch Off"

[R C]

yes, I use "Touch Off".  the other one is typically grayed out. I am 
pretty sure because there is no tool selected yet.



When I make parts, I typically use one tool per g-code, I try to keep it 
simple.



The CNC machines I have are pretty simple,  they are Sherline machines, 
in a Paxton/Patterson enclosure,  (I have replaced all the  steppers and 
stepper controllers, power supplies etc replaced with stuff commonly 
used. And there are no fancy things like tool changers or anything like 
that to begin with.



Ron



On 9/11/20 10:09 AM, N wrote:

There are two buttons "Touch Off" and "Tool Touch Off". You always use the same?


Jon,

I wrote a bunch of wizards for my mill and my lathe. I use one coordinate 
system for the origin of the main part and a different origin for each each 
wizard as it is called so that the wizard works with respect to the/an origin. 
It makes the math in the wizard much simpler, especially when you are doing 
something like rotating a rectangle.

Alan


From: Jon Elson 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] cnc axis "Touch Off"
Date: September 10, 2020 at 9:04:23 PM CDT
To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 


On 09/10/2020 08:28 PM, R C wrote:

I figured out the "touch off", and that it 'works' the same as homing, 
functionally.


I wondered what all the different coordinate systems are for, their differnces.

(I know what a coordinat system is, mathematician here.)

This allows you to set up an offset from a main coordinate system, for instance 
if you have several identical features to be machined on a part, one hunk of 
G-code could machine each part and then set up the offset to machine the next 
instance.

It can also be used if you have several parts mounted in a fixture, one coord 
system for each part.

Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] cnc axis "Touch Off"

[N]

There are two buttons "Touch Off" and "Tool Touch Off". You always use the same?

> Jon,
> 
> I wrote a bunch of wizards for my mill and my lathe. I use one coordinate 
> system for the origin of the main part and a different origin for each each 
> wizard as it is called so that the wizard works with respect to the/an 
> origin. It makes the math in the wizard much simpler, especially when you are 
> doing something like rotating a rectangle.
> 
> Alan
> 
> > From: Jon Elson 
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] cnc axis "Touch Off"
> > Date: September 10, 2020 at 9:04:23 PM CDT
> > To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
> > 
> > 
> > On 09/10/2020 08:28 PM, R C wrote:
> >> I figured out the "touch off", and that it 'works' the same as homing, 
> >> functionally.
> >> 
> >> 
> >> I wondered what all the different coordinate systems are for, their 
> >> differnces.
> >> 
> >> (I know what a coordinat system is, mathematician here.)
> > This allows you to set up an offset from a main coordinate system, for 
> > instance if you have several identical features to be machined on a part, 
> > one hunk of G-code could machine each part and then set up the offset to 
> > machine the next instance.
> > 
> > It can also be used if you have several parts mounted in a fixture, one 
> > coord system for each part.
> > 
> > Jon
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] cnc axis "Touch Off"

[R C]

well, I am comfortable with matrix algebra, but it's probably easier, 
more practical, to just do that part in freecad or so, and use a 
separate g code file for that.


I was just wondering  what these different coordinate systems are, what 
they are used for.



On 9/11/20 9:26 AM, dave engvall wrote:
IIRC some controls have a switch to do this.  Also I think you can 
flip the sign of one axis and get a mirror image but the sense of the 
cut (climb/conventional) also flips so unless your machine is pretty 
tight dimensions may also shift. I've always done this the hard way by 
going back to the CAM. My brain is pretty well fried but I think a bit 
of matrix algebra would do this for you.


Dave

On 9/11/20 6:43 AM, R C wrote:

Hello Andy,

That is interesting, I should learn more about these coordinate 
systems.  From a math/geometry perspective  there nothing that could 
keep you from


translating, rotating (and even more weird transformations)  a 
geometry into a custom one. However in an implementation, of course, 
you'd have to have a spot somewhere between the definition of an 
object (g code if you will) and where the machine/tool actually 
moves.  In some, not CC related, simulations, that's actually done/used.



there probably is a list of what these  coordinatesystems actually do?

(Now I am wondering, if I make a part, is there a coordinate system, 
that would turn out the mirror image that part?)



Ron





On 9/11/20 1:54 AM, andy pugh wrote:

On Fri, 11 Sep 2020 at 05:22, R C  wrote:


It sounds like the coordinate systems in essence are the same,  they
just have a different origin, for all the other parts, it's just the
same thing, just translated and/or rotated for another part?

Yes, and there is also only rotation about the  axis supported.
(I did just find myself wondering if you could put a set of direction
cosines in UVW but then decided that there probably isn't much call
for that.)

http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.8/html/gcode/coordinates.html




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Re: [Emc-users] cnc axis "Touch Off"

[dave engvall]

IIRC some controls have a switch to do this.  Also I think you can flip 
the sign of one axis and get a mirror image but the sense of the cut 
(climb/conventional) also flips so unless your machine is pretty tight 
dimensions may also shift. I've always done this the hard way by going 
back to the CAM. My brain is pretty well fried but I think a bit of 
matrix algebra would do this for you.


Dave

On 9/11/20 6:43 AM, R C wrote:

Hello Andy,

That is interesting, I should learn more about these coordinate 
systems.  From a math/geometry perspective  there nothing that could 
keep you from


translating, rotating (and even more weird transformations)  a 
geometry into a custom one. However in an implementation, of course, 
you'd have to have a spot somewhere between the definition of an 
object (g code if you will) and where the machine/tool actually 
moves.  In some, not CC related, simulations, that's actually done/used.



there probably is a list of what these  coordinatesystems actually do?

(Now I am wondering, if I make a part, is there a coordinate system, 
that would turn out the mirror image that part?)



Ron





On 9/11/20 1:54 AM, andy pugh wrote:

On Fri, 11 Sep 2020 at 05:22, R C  wrote:


It sounds like the coordinate systems in essence are the same,  they
just have a different origin, for all the other parts,   it's just the
same thing, just translated and/or rotated for another part?

Yes, and there is also only rotation about the  axis supported.
(I did just find myself wondering if you could put a set of direction
cosines in UVW but then decided that there probably isn't much call
for that.)

http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.8/html/gcode/coordinates.html




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Re: [Emc-users] cnc axis "Touch Off"

[R C]

Hello Andy,

That is interesting, I should learn more about these coordinate 
systems.  From a math/geometry perspective  there nothing that could 
keep you from


translating, rotating (and even more weird transformations)  a geometry 
into a custom one. However in an implementation, of course, you'd have 
to have a spot somewhere between the definition of an object (g code if 
you will) and where the machine/tool actually moves.  In some, not CC 
related, simulations, that's actually done/used.



there probably is a list of what these  coordinatesystems actually do?

(Now I am wondering, if I make a part, is there a coordinate system, 
that would turn out the mirror image that part?)



Ron





On 9/11/20 1:54 AM, andy pugh wrote:

On Fri, 11 Sep 2020 at 05:22, R C  wrote:


It sounds like the coordinate systems in essence are the same,  they
just have a different origin, for all the other parts,   it's just the
same thing, just translated and/or rotated for another part?

Yes, and there is also only rotation about the  axis supported.
(I did just find myself wondering if you could put a set of direction
cosines in UVW but then decided that there probably isn't much call
for that.)

http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.8/html/gcode/coordinates.html




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Re: [Emc-users] cnc axis "Touch Off"

[Alan Condit]

Jon,

I wrote a bunch of wizards for my mill and my lathe. I use one coordinate 
system for the origin of the main part and a different origin for each each 
wizard as it is called so that the wizard works with respect to the/an origin. 
It makes the math in the wizard much simpler, especially when you are doing 
something like rotating a rectangle.

Alan

> From: Jon Elson 
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] cnc axis "Touch Off"
> Date: September 10, 2020 at 9:04:23 PM CDT
> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
> 
> 
> On 09/10/2020 08:28 PM, R C wrote:
>> I figured out the "touch off", and that it 'works' the same as homing, 
>> functionally.
>> 
>> 
>> I wondered what all the different coordinate systems are for, their 
>> differnces.
>> 
>> (I know what a coordinat system is, mathematician here.)
> This allows you to set up an offset from a main coordinate system, for 
> instance if you have several identical features to be machined on a part, one 
> hunk of G-code could machine each part and then set up the offset to machine 
> the next instance.
> 
> It can also be used if you have several parts mounted in a fixture, one coord 
> system for each part.
> 
> Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] cnc axis "Touch Off"

[andy pugh]

On Fri, 11 Sep 2020 at 05:22, R C  wrote:

> It sounds like the coordinate systems in essence are the same,  they
> just have a different origin, for all the other parts,   it's just the
> same thing, just translated and/or rotated for another part?

Yes, and there is also only rotation about the  axis supported.
(I did just find myself wondering if you could put a set of direction
cosines in UVW but then decided that there probably isn't much call
for that.)

http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.8/html/gcode/coordinates.html

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] cnc axis "Touch Off"

[R C]

ah ok,

It sounds like the coordinate systems in essence are the same,  they 
just have a different origin, for all the other parts,   it's just the 
same thing, just translated and/or rotated for another part?



Ron



On 9/10/20 8:04 PM, Jon Elson wrote:

On 09/10/2020 08:28 PM, R C wrote:
I figured out the "touch off", and that it 'works' the same as 
homing, functionally.



I wondered what all the different coordinate systems are for, their 
differnces.


(I know what a coordinat system is, mathematician here.)
This allows you to set up an offset from a main coordinate system, for 
instance if you have several identical features to be machined on a 
part, one hunk of G-code could machine each part and then set up the 
offset to machine the next instance.


It can also be used if you have several parts mounted in a fixture, 
one coord system for each part.


Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] cnc axis "Touch Off"

[Jon Elson]

On 09/10/2020 08:28 PM, R C wrote:
I figured out the "touch off", and that it 'works' the 
same as homing, functionally.



I wondered what all the different coordinate systems are 
for, their differnces.


(I know what a coordinat system is, mathematician here.)
This allows you to set up an offset from a main coordinate 
system, for instance if you have several identical features 
to be machined on a part, one hunk of G-code could machine 
each part and then set up the offset to machine the next 
instance.


It can also be used if you have several parts mounted in a 
fixture, one coord system for each part.


Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] cnc axis "Touch Off"

[R C]

I figured out the "touch off", and that it 'works' the same as homing, 
functionally.



I wondered what all the different coordinate systems are for, their 
differnces.


(I know what a coordinat system is, mathematician here.)


Ron



On 9/10/20 6:53 PM, Jon Elson wrote:

On 09/10/2020 05:59 PM, R C wrote:

I was just playing with it a bit,


I have the idea, that , like homing is done per axis, "touching Off" 
is done per axis too?
Yes, you should be able to select the axis that is to have its offset 
changed and then enter what that coordinate should be set to.  (You 
can also select the workpiece coordinate system on that dialog box.)


Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] cnc axis "Touch Off"

[Jon Elson]

On 09/10/2020 05:59 PM, R C wrote:

I was just playing with it a bit,


I have the idea, that , like homing is done per axis, 
"touching Off" is done per axis too?
Yes, you should be able to select the axis that is to have 
its offset changed and then enter what that coordinate 
should be set to.  (You can also select the workpiece 
coordinate system on that dialog box.)


Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] cnc axis "Touch Off"

[R C]

On 9/10/20 5:49 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:

On Thursday 10 September 2020 18:50:03 jrmitchellj wrote:


On a Mill setup, touch-off only affects the Z axis.  You will need to
find your X0, and Y0 positions.  I use the end key to bring up the
dialog and set the offset.

--J. Ray Mitchell Jr.
jrmitche...@gmail.com


It works for all 4 configured axis's here.


I assume you still have to do each axis separate, that's what I have to 
do it seems.






"Good enough is the enemy of excellence"author unknown

On Thu, Sep 10, 2020 at 2:51 PM R C  wrote:

Hello,


this is probably a rookie question, but sometime when I do a "Touch
Off",  the Z-position indeed becomes 0,  but the X and Y are not.
Then in teh axis program, it will still go to the "first" spot where
it needs to start milling, and in the  drawing it fllows the correct
lines/pattern,  but since the tuch off wasn't in the origin (0, 0,
0) on the actual workpiece/part the machining is off (and
consequently goes out of the material, and starts milling air at
some point.


I am wondering why that happens?   Is that a mistake I sometimes
make in Freecad, or is that something I do wrong touching off? (I am
fairly sure it is not a bug).


How can I make sure that I am actually touching off at (0, 0, 0) ?


thanks,


Ron

(sorry if I have some terminology incorrect, but you know ... rookie
here.)



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Cheers, Gene Heskett



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Re: [Emc-users] cnc axis "Touch Off"

[andy pugh]

On Thu, 10 Sep 2020 at 22:51, R C  wrote:

> this is probably a rookie question, but sometime when I do a "Touch
> Off",  the Z-position indeed becomes 0,  but the X and Y are not.   Then
> in teh axis program, it will still go to the "first" spot where it needs
> to start milling

There are two different touch-offs: Tool and Coordinate system.

On a Mill you typically only touch-off the tool in Z, but each tool
can have XYZABCUVW offsets.
Lathes will generally use Z and X offsets.

The coordinate system offset applies to all tools.

So, for a mill with a collet chuck you can choose to touch-off the
tool every time, or the coordinate system every time, or some
combination. But we warned that unless you are disciplined and know
what you want to achieve, using both can get confusing. With a machine
that has a "proper" toolholding system then you would touch-off each
tool into the tool table, then you can touch-off the coordinate system
with any tool and the coordinate system will be correct for all tools.

Axis only touches-off one axis at a time. You need to choose the axis
with the radio buttons before pressing the touch-off button.

Touchy allows you to touch off every coordinate system or tool axis at
the same time.

I don't know what the other UIs do without testing them as I have
little experience with them.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] cnc axis "Touch Off"

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 10 September 2020 18:59:09 R C wrote:

> I was just playing with it a bit,
>
>
> I have the idea, that , like homing is done per axis, "touching Off"
> is done per axis too?
>
yes, and has forever here.
>
> thanks,
>
>
> Ron
>
> On 9/10/20 4:50 PM, jrmitchellj wrote:
> > On a Mill setup, touch-off only affects the Z axis.  You will need
> > to find your X0, and Y0 positions.  I use the end key to bring up
> > the dialog and set the offset.
> >
> > --J. Ray Mitchell Jr.
> > jrmitche...@gmail.com
> >
> >
> >
> > "Good enough is the enemy of excellence"author unknown
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 10, 2020 at 2:51 PM R C  wrote:
> >> Hello,
> >>
> >>
> >> this is probably a rookie question, but sometime when I do a "Touch
> >> Off",  the Z-position indeed becomes 0,  but the X and Y are not.  
> >> Then in teh axis program, it will still go to the "first" spot
> >> where it needs to start milling, and in the  drawing it fllows the
> >> correct lines/pattern,  but since the tuch off wasn't in the origin
> >> (0, 0, 0) on the actual workpiece/part the machining is off (and
> >> consequently goes out of the material, and starts milling air at
> >> some point.
> >>
> >>
> >> I am wondering why that happens?   Is that a mistake I sometimes
> >> make in Freecad, or is that something I do wrong touching off? (I
> >> am fairly sure it is not a bug).
> >>
> >>
> >> How can I make sure that I am actually touching off at (0, 0, 0) ?
> >>
> >>
> >> thanks,
> >>
> >>
> >> Ron
> >>
> >> (sorry if I have some terminology incorrect, but you know ...
> >> rookie here.)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
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> >
> > ___
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
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Re: [Emc-users] cnc axis "Touch Off"

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 10 September 2020 18:50:03 jrmitchellj wrote:

> On a Mill setup, touch-off only affects the Z axis.  You will need to
> find your X0, and Y0 positions.  I use the end key to bring up the
> dialog and set the offset.
>
> --J. Ray Mitchell Jr.
> jrmitche...@gmail.com
>
It works for all 4 configured axis's here.
>
>
> "Good enough is the enemy of excellence"author unknown
>
> On Thu, Sep 10, 2020 at 2:51 PM R C  wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> >
> > this is probably a rookie question, but sometime when I do a "Touch
> > Off",  the Z-position indeed becomes 0,  but the X and Y are not.  
> > Then in teh axis program, it will still go to the "first" spot where
> > it needs to start milling, and in the  drawing it fllows the correct
> > lines/pattern,  but since the tuch off wasn't in the origin (0, 0,
> > 0) on the actual workpiece/part the machining is off (and
> > consequently goes out of the material, and starts milling air at
> > some point.
> >
> >
> > I am wondering why that happens?   Is that a mistake I sometimes
> > make in Freecad, or is that something I do wrong touching off? (I am
> > fairly sure it is not a bug).
> >
> >
> > How can I make sure that I am actually touching off at (0, 0, 0) ?
> >
> >
> > thanks,
> >
> >
> > Ron
> >
> > (sorry if I have some terminology incorrect, but you know ... rookie
> > here.)
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
> ___
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] cnc axis "Touch Off"

[R C]

yup,  that's why I noticed too.  I thought "touch off" would be more 
like "this is (0, 0, 0)"  and just hit that button once...


I guess I got lucky a few times.



On 9/10/20 5:28 PM, Dave Matthews wrote:

That is how I do it.  There are three radio buttons, one for each axis.  It
defaults to the last axis moved which is usually z.

Dave

On Thu, Sep 10, 2020, 19:01 R C  wrote:


I was just playing with it a bit,


I have the idea, that , like homing is done per axis, "touching Off" is
done per axis too?



thanks,


Ron





On 9/10/20 4:50 PM, jrmitchellj wrote:

On a Mill setup, touch-off only affects the Z axis.  You will need to

find

your X0, and Y0 positions.  I use the end key to bring up the dialog and
set the offset.

--J. Ray Mitchell Jr.
jrmitche...@gmail.com



"Good enough is the enemy of excellence"author unknown


On Thu, Sep 10, 2020 at 2:51 PM R C  wrote:


Hello,


this is probably a rookie question, but sometime when I do a "Touch
Off",  the Z-position indeed becomes 0,  but the X and Y are not.   Then
in teh axis program, it will still go to the "first" spot where it needs
to start milling, and in the  drawing it fllows the correct
lines/pattern,  but since the tuch off wasn't in the origin (0, 0, 0) on
the actual workpiece/part the machining is off (and consequently goes
out of the material, and starts milling air at some point.


I am wondering why that happens?   Is that a mistake I sometimes make in
Freecad, or is that something I do wrong touching off? (I am fairly sure
it is not a bug).


How can I make sure that I am actually touching off at (0, 0, 0) ?


thanks,


Ron

(sorry if I have some terminology incorrect, but you know ... rookie

here.)



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Re: [Emc-users] cnc axis "Touch Off"

[Dave Matthews]

That is how I do it.  There are three radio buttons, one for each axis.  It
defaults to the last axis moved which is usually z.

Dave

On Thu, Sep 10, 2020, 19:01 R C  wrote:

> I was just playing with it a bit,
>
>
> I have the idea, that , like homing is done per axis, "touching Off" is
> done per axis too?
>
>
>
> thanks,
>
>
> Ron
>
>
>
>
>
> On 9/10/20 4:50 PM, jrmitchellj wrote:
> > On a Mill setup, touch-off only affects the Z axis.  You will need to
> find
> > your X0, and Y0 positions.  I use the end key to bring up the dialog and
> > set the offset.
> >
> > --J. Ray Mitchell Jr.
> > jrmitche...@gmail.com
> >
> >
> >
> > "Good enough is the enemy of excellence"author unknown
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 10, 2020 at 2:51 PM R C  wrote:
> >
> >> Hello,
> >>
> >>
> >> this is probably a rookie question, but sometime when I do a "Touch
> >> Off",  the Z-position indeed becomes 0,  but the X and Y are not.   Then
> >> in teh axis program, it will still go to the "first" spot where it needs
> >> to start milling, and in the  drawing it fllows the correct
> >> lines/pattern,  but since the tuch off wasn't in the origin (0, 0, 0) on
> >> the actual workpiece/part the machining is off (and consequently goes
> >> out of the material, and starts milling air at some point.
> >>
> >>
> >> I am wondering why that happens?   Is that a mistake I sometimes make in
> >> Freecad, or is that something I do wrong touching off? (I am fairly sure
> >> it is not a bug).
> >>
> >>
> >> How can I make sure that I am actually touching off at (0, 0, 0) ?
> >>
> >>
> >> thanks,
> >>
> >>
> >> Ron
> >>
> >> (sorry if I have some terminology incorrect, but you know ... rookie
> here.)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
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> >> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >>
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>
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Re: [Emc-users] cnc axis "Touch Off"

[R C]

I was just playing with it a bit,


I have the idea, that , like homing is done per axis, "touching Off" is 
done per axis too?




thanks,


Ron





On 9/10/20 4:50 PM, jrmitchellj wrote:

On a Mill setup, touch-off only affects the Z axis.  You will need to find
your X0, and Y0 positions.  I use the end key to bring up the dialog and
set the offset.

--J. Ray Mitchell Jr.
jrmitche...@gmail.com



"Good enough is the enemy of excellence"author unknown


On Thu, Sep 10, 2020 at 2:51 PM R C  wrote:


Hello,


this is probably a rookie question, but sometime when I do a "Touch
Off",  the Z-position indeed becomes 0,  but the X and Y are not.   Then
in teh axis program, it will still go to the "first" spot where it needs
to start milling, and in the  drawing it fllows the correct
lines/pattern,  but since the tuch off wasn't in the origin (0, 0, 0) on
the actual workpiece/part the machining is off (and consequently goes
out of the material, and starts milling air at some point.


I am wondering why that happens?   Is that a mistake I sometimes make in
Freecad, or is that something I do wrong touching off? (I am fairly sure
it is not a bug).


How can I make sure that I am actually touching off at (0, 0, 0) ?


thanks,


Ron

(sorry if I have some terminology incorrect, but you know ... rookie here.)



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Re: [Emc-users] cnc axis "Touch Off"

[jrmitchellj]

On a Mill setup, touch-off only affects the Z axis.  You will need to find
your X0, and Y0 positions.  I use the end key to bring up the dialog and
set the offset.

--J. Ray Mitchell Jr.
jrmitche...@gmail.com



"Good enough is the enemy of excellence"author unknown


On Thu, Sep 10, 2020 at 2:51 PM R C  wrote:

> Hello,
>
>
> this is probably a rookie question, but sometime when I do a "Touch
> Off",  the Z-position indeed becomes 0,  but the X and Y are not.   Then
> in teh axis program, it will still go to the "first" spot where it needs
> to start milling, and in the  drawing it fllows the correct
> lines/pattern,  but since the tuch off wasn't in the origin (0, 0, 0) on
> the actual workpiece/part the machining is off (and consequently goes
> out of the material, and starts milling air at some point.
>
>
> I am wondering why that happens?   Is that a mistake I sometimes make in
> Freecad, or is that something I do wrong touching off? (I am fairly sure
> it is not a bug).
>
>
> How can I make sure that I am actually touching off at (0, 0, 0) ?
>
>
> thanks,
>
>
> Ron
>
> (sorry if I have some terminology incorrect, but you know ... rookie here.)
>
>
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>

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