Re: [EVDL] Fwd: NACS to CCS Adapter - Vortex Plug - 500A, 1000V — Lectron EV

[Rod Hower via EV]

Phil,
I must have missed your email about the Lectron adapter.  I bought one of
these for my 2023 Mustang Mach E premium.
https://a2zevshop.com/products/nacs-ccs1?variant=43186507579592
What are your thoughts on the A2Z EV shop Typhoon Plug?
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[EVDL] 2023 Ford Mustang Mach E premium.

[Rod Hower via EV]

I've been on the list since 1998 and have worked on EV's since 1990.  I drove 
my 2014 Chevy Volt for 102,000 EV miles and traded it in on Monday for a Mach 
E.  The Volt was an awesome car, but there was some issues starting to develop 
so I decided to trade it in before I took a big hit on repair costs.  The Mach 
E Premium is an amazing vehicle!  I can't believe how far we have come since I 
started driving EV's back in 1990!  
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Re: [EVDL] EV Infrastructure insights

[Rod Hower via EV]

 That's pretty cool Rush!  Thanks for posting!
On Friday, October 20, 2023 at 05:46:46 PM EDT, EV@TucsonEV via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 https://www.here.com/ev-index-2023

 

Here's an interesting study that compares EV charging infrastructure in US and
Europe. And also breaks down the infrastructure ranking state by state which
show Charging points per road length, avg. charger power, EV market share 2022
and EV fleet per charging point. 

 

Best regards,

 

Rush Dougherty

TucsonEV

www.TucsonEV.com  

 

 

 

 

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Re: [EVDL] (EVDL)EV charging is changing

[Rod Hower via EV]

 With that logic it's time to start commuting in a cement truck!  No thanks, 
I'll continue driving my 2014 Chevy Volt and 2000 Honda Insight and tempt 
fate!.  I see a guy riding an electric scooter almost everyday on a main rode 
on the way to work with a backpack.  Not sure how long he'll last, winter is 
coming.
On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 08:26:31 PM EDT, Collin Kidder via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 10wh/mi is extremely dubious. It'd be great if that were physically
possible at realistic speeds but it just isn't.

But, my biggest problem with things like the Aptera is really safety. All
other things being equal, safety in a crash comes down to energy transfer.
And, energy is a function of mass and speed. This is why buses in the US
don't have seatbelts for kids. The bus weighs more than almost anything
else on the road so unless the bus hits a full cement truck head on it will
not experience too shocking of a load. From a physics perspective, this is
the answer to the question: "when two equal cars, each going 60MPH hit, is
it better or worse than hitting a brick wall at 60MPH?" Well, it's the
same. Two cars of equal mass, each going the same speed but in opposite
directions will have the same kinetic energy. So, when they hit they cancel
out each other's energy and both stop as if they hit a brick wall going
60MPH. However, if an F150 with 1500lbs of bricks in the back gets into a
head on collision with an Aptera it's going to go straight through it and
not even come to a complete stop. The Aptera will look like it was hit with
a stack of dynamite. The F150 driver will spill his coffee and ruin his
front end. This is part of the subconscious reason that people in the US
buy such big cars. If I buy a big car or a truck and so does everyone else
but you don't... Well, you're going to have a terrible time if one of us
crashes into you. So, we buy bigger and bigger vehicles so that we're
"safer" on the road. To some extent, that is sound logic.

On Sun, Sep 10, 2023 at 3:04 PM David Heacock via EV 
wrote:

>  Okay so we have some good conversation going here.  I'll try to keep this
> is short as possible.  I am actually happy that some may believe the Aptera
> might achieve 100 wh/ mi or 10 miles per kWh.  I'm really not sure that can
> be done but we will see and yes I would like to see some actual range
> numbers when testing begins with the production version maybe later this
> year.
> Yes the steering wheel is different and yes Tesla tried something like
> this and there were complaints.  I think it fits with the look of the
> Aptera but I'm also not sure if I will like it even though people who have
> driven the vehicle seem to be happy and haven't so far expressed concerns.
> On being safer than a motorcycle, in my younger years I may have been
> naive enough to think I could just jump clear of my motorcycle when struck
> by another vehicle but I'm very sure I will be safer in an Aptera if
> tee-boned at 30 mph by another vehicle.  There are references to testing
> that showed the roof strength of the Aptera is better than other vehicles
> and the composite materials used are stronger than steel along with the
> fact that they will have two air bags.  Yep, would be nice if they had side
> impact air bags but maybe in the future.
> Stability.  the reference presented is from May 1980 which is old news but
> the funny thing is it points out three things that make a three wheel
> vehicle better than a four wheel vehicle.  1. lighter, 2. more efficient
> aerodynamic envelope and 3. reduced cost--everything Aptera has been
> pointing out.  But here is the real head scratcher from the paper, it
> concludes that it is possible to build a 3-wheel car with essentially the
> same handling and overturn characteristics as any 4-wheel car.  So you want
> stability, take a look at the Moose Test conducted over a year ago aptera
> moose test  What makes it stable? Well Roush has been involved in design
> and improvements and Aptera has been fine tuning the suspension.  It also
> has an 88 inch front wheel base as pointed out-try finding a trailer it
> will fit on. For Roush Roush Advances Development of Aptera’s Solar
> Electric Vehicle | Aptera
>
> |
> |
> |
> |  |  |
>
>  |
>
>  |
> |
> |  |
> Roush Advances Development of Aptera’s Solar Electric Vehicle | Aptera
>
> Michael
>
> Roush Advances Development of Aptera’s Solar Electric Vehicle Roush,
> recognized global leader in engineering, pr...
>  |
>
>  |
>
>  |
>
>
>
>
> As far as storage space, my point is mainly you can carry more than one
> bag of groceries and some pretty big items can be placed in the back
> without all the trouble of folding down seats and such.  Think of it this
> way, you are going over to a friends house and want to borrow a ladder, do
> you take your gas SUV with seats that don't fold flat or just take the
> Aptera?  I'm sure this discussion can go either way.
> Yep it might be too wide in some cases, i.e. garage or trailer.  Agree 

Re: [EVDL] EV charging is changing

[Rod Hower via EV]

 My 2014 Volt only has 46 miles of range.  I drive 21 miles to work and charge 
there at Chargepoint for 10 cents per kWhr.  I have 240Vac at home and charge 
there as well.  98% of my travel is electric.  I take some work trips that are 
less than 500 miles and then use gas.  I guess it's more of a problem for 
people that live in an apartment without access to a 120Vac plug, but that also 
hasn't been a problem either unless you live in a huge complex without access.
On Tuesday, August 29, 2023 at 05:42:51 PM EDT, paul dove via EV 
 wrote:  
 
  That's great except for traveling and apartment dwellers. I only use the 
supercharger when on the interstates.
My non-Tesla EV  I only use in the city and charge at home.
    On Tuesday, August 29, 2023 at 04:06:05 PM CDT, Lee Hart via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 EV@TucsonEV via EV wrote:
> One of the reasons why parking meters went to CC systems is the fact that they
> were continuously broken into and were more costly to maintain since they 
> needed
> someone to empty them of the change.

It's depressing to see how the future is developing. Like the Grateful 
Dead sang, "What a long strange trip it's been".

The impression I get is that "everyone" thinks public charging must 
follow the gas station model. All chargers must be "fast" and cost $5 or 
more to use. These expensive charging stations are frequently vandalized 
and broken.

Everyone drives 100-200 miles every day, and no one can charge at home 
without spending thousands of dollars on a home charging station. So we 
*must* have vast network of public charging stations to match the 
existing network of gas stations.

That's not the only solution, you know. Where I live, there are hundreds 
of free public AC outlets. They've been there for decades, for plugging 
in your ICE's block heaters in the winter. They don't get vandalized, 
except by an occasional errant snowplow. Every EV I've seen already has 
a built-in charger; all it needs is any normal AC outlet. I simply 
charge at home, or plugged in at work so by quitting time, my EV was 
fully charged.

There are parking meters that accept real coins, and meter readers that 
collect the coins (and put the tickets on your car if it's over-parked). 
I have yet to see one that takes credit cards.

There are no gated communities, and people generally don't lock their 
cars or their doors. Theft and vandalism are not enough of a problem to 
worry about.

Lee

-- 
Whether we or our politicians know it or not, Nature is party to all
our deals and decisions, and she has more votes, a longer memory,
and a sterner sense of justice than we do. -- Wendell Berry
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com

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Re: [EVDL] EVnetics Soliton 1 controller

[Rod Hower via EV]

 I'm interested, what is the input voltage range?
On Thursday, July 20, 2023 at 05:47:58 PM EDT, Cor van de Water via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 Anybody interested in a used Soliton 1, which is a 1000 Amp DC motor
controller?
Pics on request, make me an offer.
Located in Silicon Valley.
Cor.
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Re: [EVDL] EV Digest, Vol 128, Issue 17

[Rod Hower via EV]

 When I first started charging there back in 2017 it was $0.35/kWhr.  I told 
them it was cheaper to drive on gasoline and wasn't going to charge.  I work at 
Ametek who pays for parking at Parta.  I believe they negotiated special 
pricing for people that pay for the parking garage.
On Friday, June 23, 2023 at 09:45:23 AM EDT, EV List Lackey via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 On 23 Jun 2023 at 12:46, Rod Hower via EV wrote:

>  I have a 2014 Chevy Volt that runs 98% of the time on electric only.I drive
>  21 miles to work and charge at the Kent Central Parking deck using
>  ChargePoint with a rate of 0.1 kWhr and I typically use 7 kWhr driving to
>  work in the spring, summer and fall, so $0.7 per day.At home I charge on 240V
>  and the cost is $0.13, so $0.91.Averaging 20 work days and ignoring the
>  weekend driving it comes out to $32.2 per month for 840 miles.  About
>  $0.038/mile.

Very interesting that the Chargepoint electricity (10 cents / kWh) is 
actually cheaper than your home electricity (13 cents / kWh).  Bravo for 
Kent and Chargepoint.

If I understand you right, and did the math right, it's 3.3 cents ($0.033) 
per mile charging at work on Chargepoint, and 4.3 cents ($0.043) per mile 
charging at home.  That seems pretty reasonable.

David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey

To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my 
offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt

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Re: [EVDL] EV Digest, Vol 128, Issue 17

[Rod Hower via EV]

 I have a 2014 Chevy Volt that runs 98% of the time on electric only.I drive 21 
miles to work and charge at the Kent Central Parking deck using ChargePoint 
with a rate of 0.1 kWhr and I typically use 7 kWhr driving to work in the 
spring, summer and fall, so $0.7 per day.At home I charge on 240V and the cost 
is $0.13, so $0.91.Averaging 20 work days and ignoring the weekend driving it 
comes out to $32.2 per month for 840 miles.  About $0.038/mile.
On Friday, June 23, 2023 at 12:09:20 AM EDT, EV List Lackey via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 On 22 Jun 2023 at 13:27, EV@TucsonEV via EV wrote:

> Since the EVListLackey ?? didn't figure home charging, where a vast
> number of EV owners charge, I thought I try and see what the cost is
> with my Eleco here in Tucson TEP ... So my cost per mile was $0.06 

Sorry I didn't look at the cost to home charge that Kia EV6.  It would 
depend on the utility of course.  

Your per-mile cost analysis was interesting.  Maybe others can chime in with 
their costs. BTW, if you don't mine my asking, what Tesla model are you 
driving?

I computed our costs for the Renault Zoe:

Public charging on Ionity network (fairly expensive):

    Ionity DC (<= 350kW), 0.69 euro / kWh : 0.10 euro / km (US$0.175 / mile)

    Ionity AC (<= 22kW), 0.39 euro / kWh : 0.057 euro / km (US$0.10 / mile)

Home AC (<= 7.2kW), 0.2142 euro / kWh : 0.03 euro / km (US$0.054 / mile)

For comparison, a Renault Clio hybrid, a similar car that uses 4.3l/100km, 
would cost 0.085 euro/km with fuel at 1.98 euro/litre.  

Maybe others here would like to post their per-mile (or per-km) costs.

David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey

To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my 
offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt

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Re: [EVDL] need new home ESVE

[Rod Hower via EV]

 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08PQ42SJ4
That one has a 28 foot cable but only goes up to 16A on 240 which is fine for 
my Chevy Volt but might not be enough for your application.  $229
On Friday, June 9, 2023 at 10:31:41 AM EDT, Peri Hartman via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 My ESVE stopped working. I'm planning to replace it and would like some 
suggestions.

The low voltage circuit blew a fuse. I put in a new one and it 
practically exploded. Obviously a dead short which, I presume, means the 
power supply went bad. I'm sure I could replace that but I'm not sure I 
want to spend the time trying to find the part and to do the swap.

I've looked online at several J1772 ESVEs. I have a 40A circuit with a 
nema 6-50 socket (I think). I need a 20'-25' cable. Will be outdoor.

AEFA Mini Cooper
https://ev-chargers.com/mini/mini-cooper-se-ev-chargers/
$275, up to 40A (input or output, don't know), 6-50 option, compact.

Grizzl-E GR1-14-24-P, GR1-6-24-P
https://grizzl-e.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/Classic-brochure-letter-2022-1.pdf
$395, 32A output on 40A circuit, 6-50 option, reasonably compact.

Kind of expensive: Juicebox 40
https://evcharging.enelx.com/images/JuiceBox/PDF/Next-Gen_JuiceBox_40_1_15.pdf
$649, 40A circuit, 14-50 plug (I'll have to rewire socket),  moderately 
compact.

Consider: Lectron 30A
https://ev-lectron.com/products/lectron-portable-electric-car-charger-32a
$306. Can't find any specs, which gives strong negative vibes.

Any suggestions ?

<< Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>
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Re: [EVDL] EV Digest, Vol 127, Issue 13

[Rod Hower via EV]

 My 2014 Volt only gets 46 miles max EV in the summer, but I commute to work 21 
miles and have a charger there.  I just filled up a couple of weeks ago and it 
was 3 gallons, the last fill up was September 2022.  If we take a long trip we 
use the wife's 2017 Jeep Trailhawk or I just use gas in the Volt.  I would buy 
a full EV and it would serve 100% of my transportation needs, however the Volt 
still drives as good as a Tesla model 3.  My Volt has 123k miles and still 
drives great, so I'll wait to go full EV when it dies!
On Tuesday, May 23, 2023 at 08:05:30 PM EDT, Peter Eckhoff via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 AMEN!!

We use Level 1.  Level 2 would be overkill and we have a Supercharger
about 10 miles away if we have a need to use it (about 4 times a
year).

Long distance traveling is like doing it in an ICE except we stop and
recharge while we use the restrooms and then grab a bite to eat.  When
done, we are about fully recharged.  Fuel costs are about half per
mile.  We are never going back to an ICE.


On Tue, May 23, 2023 at 7:37 PM Lee Hart via EV  wrote:
>
> Tim Economu via EV wrote:
> > Once you road trip in a Tesla, you won't ever consider another brand, at
> > least until the US gets it charging in place (5+ years)..
>
> That's fine if you live in a big city or do lots of long-distance
> driving on the interstates. But I live in a rural area (mid-state
> Minnesota). The nearest Superchargers are in Minneapolis/St.Paul, which
> is over 70 miles away. We rarely go there; in fact we haven't been there
> yet this year.
>
> But there are plenty of free 120v outlets, and a couple of free 240v
> J1772 charging stations. Those, and charging at home have met 100% of
> our needs.
>
> Since we don't drive very far, our Leaf and my own EV conversions have
> been fine for us.
>
> Lee
>
> --
> Whatever the problem, be part of the solution. Don’t just sit
> around raising questions and pointing out obstacles. -- Tina Fey
> --
> Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
>
> --
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> www.avast.com
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[EVDL] Tesla workers shared sensitive images recorded by customer cars

[Rod Hower via EV]

Special Report: Tesla workers shared sensitive images recorded by customer cars
Private camera recordings, captured by cars, were shared in chat rooms: 
ex-workersCirculated clips included one of child being hit by car: 
ex-employeesTesla says recordings made by vehicle cameras ‘remain anonymous’One 
video showed submersible vehicle from James Bond film, owned by Elon 
MuskLONDON/SAN FRANCISCO, April 6 (Reuters) - Tesla Inc assures its millions of 
electric car owners that their privacy “is and will always be enormously 
important to us.” The cameras it builds into vehicles to assist driving, it 
notes on its website, are “designed from the ground up to protect your privacy.”
But between 2019 and 2022, groups of Tesla employees privately shared via an 
internal messaging system sometimes highly invasive videos and images recorded 
by customers’ car cameras, according to interviews by Reuters with nine former 
employees.
Advertisement · Scroll to continueSome of the recordings caught Tesla customers 
in embarrassing situations. One ex-employee described a video of a man 
approaching a vehicle completely naked.
Also shared: crashes and road-rage incidents. One crash video in 2021 showed a 
Tesla driving at high speed in a residential area hitting a child riding a 
bike, according to another ex-employee. The child flew in one direction, the 
bike in another. The video spread around a Tesla office in San Mateo, 
California, via private one-on-one chats, “like wildfire,” the ex-employee said.
Other images were more mundane, such as pictures of dogs and funny road signs 
that employees made into memes by embellishing them with amusing captions or 
commentary, before posting them in private group chats. While some postings 
were only shared between two employees, others could be seen by scores of them, 
according to several ex-employees.
Tesla states in its online “Customer Privacy Notice” that its “camera 
recordings remain anonymous and are not linked to you or your vehicle.” But 
seven former employees told Reuters the computer program they used at work 
could show the location of recordings – which potentially could reveal where a 
Tesla owner lived.
One ex-employee also said that some recordings appeared to have been made when 
cars were parked and turned off. Several years ago, Tesla would receive video 
recordings from its vehicles even when they were off, if owners gave consent. 
It has since stopped doing so.
“We could see inside people's garages and their private properties,” said 
another former employee. “Let's say that a Tesla customer had something in 
their garage that was distinctive, you know, people would post those kinds of 
things.”
Tesla didn't respond to detailed questions sent to the company for this report.
About three years ago, some employees stumbled upon and shared a video of a 
unique submersible vehicle parked inside a garage, according to two people who 
viewed it. Nicknamed “Wet Nellie,” the white Lotus Esprit sub had been featured 
in the 1977 James Bond film, “The Spy Who Loved Me.”
The vehicle’s owner: Tesla Chief Executive Elon Musk, who had bought it for 
about $968,000 at an auction in 2013. It is not clear whether Musk was aware of 
the video or that it had been shared.
Musk didn’t respond to a request for comment.
To report this story, Reuters contacted more than 300 former Tesla employees 
who had worked at the company over the past nine years and were involved in 
developing its self-driving system. More than a dozen agreed to answer 
questions, all speaking on condition of anonymity.
Reuters wasn’t able to obtain any of the shared videos or images, which 
ex-employees said they hadn’t kept. The news agency also wasn’t able to 
determine if the practice of sharing recordings, which occurred within some 
parts of Tesla as recently as last year, continues today or how widespread it 
was. Some former employees contacted said the only sharing they observed was 
for legitimate work purposes, such as seeking assistance from colleagues or 
supervisors.
LABELING PEDESTRIANS AND STREET SIGNSThe sharing of sensitive videos 
illustrates one of the less-noted features of artificial intelligence systems: 
They often require armies of human beings to help train machines to learn 
automated tasks such as driving.
Since about 2016, Tesla has employed hundreds of people in Africa and later the 
United States to label images to help its cars learn how to recognize 
pedestrians, street signs, construction vehicles, garage doors and other 
objects encountered on the road or at customers’ houses. To accomplish that, 
data labelers were given access to thousands of videos or images recorded by 
car cameras that they would view and identify objects.
Tesla increasingly has been automating the process, and shut down a 
data-labeling hub last year in San Mateo, California. But it continues to 
employ hundreds of data labelers in Buffalo, New York. In February, Tesla said 
the staff there had 

Re: [EVDL] 2 acre riding lawn mower

[Rod Hower via EV]

 My son-in-law has an Ego self propelled push mower and just purchased a $1600 
self propelled snow blower.  I'm an electrical engineer and have tinkered with 
electrics for 32 years and I'll have to say the Ego products above are very 
well designed and durable.  He has only used the snowblower once, but it cut 
right through a 2 foot snow drift with no problems, throwing the snow about 15 
to 20'.  I haven't seen the Ego riding mower, but based on the units above I 
would think they are also well built.
On Thursday, February 9, 2023 at 09:38:58 AM EST, Peri Hartman via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 Thank you, Paul.

I can only imagine how hard it is to tap out a message while a chihauhau 
is jumping on you :)

That said, Ego is a relative new comer and much smaller than Deere, Cat, 
Toro, to name a few (I have no idea if the others are making EVs). Maybe 
it isn't significant, but I'm hoping that when buyers see a very 
familiar brand promoting an electric riding mower, they will have 
confidence. People like you and me seek out companies like Ego. I'm just 
guessing, but I suspect most people have never heard of Ego.

Peri

<< Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>

-- Original Message --
From: "paul dove" 
To: "Peri Hartman" ; "Electric Vehicle Discussion 
List" 
Sent: 09-Feb-23 06:24:51
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [EVDL] 2 acre riding lawn mower

>I apologize! Sincerely was not trying to be rude.
>
>Originally I was going to post a link. Seems when I do that it includes 
>a bunch of graphics and the forum rejects those. In addition, my 
>chihuahua was jumping on me while typing in my phone and I didn’t give 
>much thought to how it sounded. I merely intended to let people know 
>others were making them. I will try to do better.
>
>Paul
>
>
>Sent from AT Yahoo Mail for iPhone 
>
>
>On Thursday, February 9, 2023, 8:18 AM, Peri Hartman 
> wrote:
>
>>Paul, you needn't be so rude. I think highly of ego, but wasn't aware 
>>of their product. If you don't like my posts, don't read them.
>>Peri
>>
>><< Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>
>>
>>-- Original Message --
>>From: "paul dove" 
>>To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
>>Cc: "Peri Hartman" 
>>Sent: 09-Feb-23 05:53:21
>>Subject: Re: [EVDL] 2 acre riding lawn mower
>>
>>>There are several companies making them. I guess ego is not a major 
>>>manufacturer in your mind.
>>>
>>>
>>>Sent from AT Yahoo Mail for iPhone 
>>>
>>>
>>>On Wednesday, February 8, 2023, 11:12 PM, Peri Hartman via EV 
>>> wrote:
>>>
Well, not something you would take on the road, but I'm glad to see 
a
major manufacturer, John Deere, producing an electric riding lawn 
mower.
The small gas engines are the worst polluters and the noise in the
neighborhoods has got to go, too.

https://electrek.co/2023/02/08/john-deere-launches-first-electric-zero-turn-mower/

...
The electric mower features a 3.2 kWh (3.56 kWh maximum) sealed
lithium-ion battery capable of mowing up to two acres per charge.

With a 42-inch Accel Deep Deck and two adjustable mowers, the
zero-emission EV delivers the same productivity and cut quality as 
its
gas-powered counterparts, with added benefits. The electric 
transaxle
has a seven mph maximum forward speed, three different modes which 
can
be controlled from a large LCD screen, and zero turn capabilities 
for
the perfect lines each time.
...

Peri

<< Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>

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Re: [EVDL] EV Digest, Vol 121, Issue 7

[Rod Hower via EV]

I test drove a Model 3 single and dual motor.  It was a nice vehicle and
had really nice performance.  This was about 2 years ago and I still have
my 2014 Chevy Volt that I bought December 2016.  The Model 3 didn't drive
any better than my Volt, it was quicker, but the Volt is quick enough.  I
couldn't justify spending $60k on a new vehicle when I paid $11,800 for the
Volt.  I have 120k miles on the Volt and it still delivers 98% of my
driving as an EV.

On Sun, Nov 13, 2022 at 8:01 PM EV List Lackey via EV 
wrote:

> On 12 Nov 2022 at 22:17, Charles Galpin via EV wrote:
>
> > ITMm surprised no-one has suggested a used Tesla model 3.  You can get
> them
> > used under 40k and itTMs battery will last.
>
> Not to dismiss your suggestion - I'm sure it's worth considering - but to
> me
> that still seems like a fair bit of cash, especially for a used EV  It's
> half again as much as a *brand new* Bolt.  Is the 3 really half again the
> car?  And used at that?  I guess that that depends on what you consider
> important.
>
> Don't forget that the Tesla is likely to cost more to insure (looks like
> around 13% more), and more to repair once it's out of warranty.
>
> I don't own a Tesla, so maybe my judgment is suspect, but they seem to be
> pretty nice EVs.  However, they were already expensive, and in the last
> year
> or so, the prices have gone from eyebrow-raising to breath-taking.
>
> I get it - it's supply and demand, what the taxicab "disruptors" call
> "surge
> pricing."  If you're selling out, raise the price until you're not.  Basic
> capitalism. Your stockholders are apt to crucify you otherwise.
>
> But I can't help thinking that nothing quite says "we're out to change the
> world with EVs" like making them less affordable.
>
> IMO, at this point, like a Leica camera or a Rolex watch, a Tesla is a
> fine
> piece of EV machinery for those who want and can afford the best.
>
> Peri may have Tesla-level disposable income, and I'm happy for him if he
> does (I mean that; I'm not being snarky).  For those who don't, there are
> more affordable options - and thank goodness for that.  FWIW, a Canon
> camera
> will also take pretty decent photos, and a Timex watche will keep you on
> time fairly well.
>
> David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey
>
> To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my
> offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>  Nowadays it's not important if a story's real.  The only
>  thing that really matters is whether people click on it.
>
>   -- Neetzan Zimmerman of Gawker
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
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Re: [EVDL] Leaf battery replacement ?

[Rod Hower via EV]

Greentec auto replaced the battery in my 2000 Honda Insight and did an
awesome job.  I now have 8k miles since January.  They specialize in hybrid
battery replacement but they also sell full EV batteries.  You may want to
ask if they will do a battery swap.
https://www.greentecauto.com/product-tag/nissan-leaf
They have a shop in Seattle
SEATTLE, WA
1721 W Valley Hwy N, Unit 8
Auburn, WA 98001
Mon-Fri: 8:00am-5:00pm PST
Request more information by using our contact form or call 800-773-6614.

On Sun, Nov 13, 2022 at 9:13 PM Peri Hartman via EV 
wrote:

> How do the "lizard" batteries perform in cold weather ? It's my
> understanding they were produced to solve the "phoenix" problem, which
> doesn't apply to seattle.
>
> Regardless of range, you're saying the lizard battery won't degrade as
> quickly ?
>
> I'd like to get about 60 mile range in 25F degree weather (arbitrary,
> and I can be flexible, but at some point it isn't worth it). My
> experience with the OEM battery is roughly 50% range at 25F versus 70F.
> If I buy a used lizard that has, say 60 mile range at 70F, what can I
> expect at 25F ?
>
> (By the way, I'm scouring the Internet in parallel, but the comments on
> this list are very helpful.)
>
> Thanks,
> Peri
>
> << Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Ken Olum via EV" 
> To: ev@lists.evdl.org
> Cc: "Ken Olum" 
> Sent: 13-Nov-22 14:18:54
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Leaf battery replacement ?
>
> >We had the battery in our 2013 Leaf replaced with a 2015 24 kWh battery
> >by Leo & Sons in Lawrence, MA.  We are very happy with the result.  They
> >charged us $4600.  We didn't have to do anything but drop off the car
> >and pick it up later.
> >
> >I wouldn't recommend a 30 kWh battery.  The newer 24 kWh "lizard"
> >batteries have much better calendar life than the 30 kWh ones, so when
> >you're getting an old battery from a crashed car, you might well get
> >more range from a 24 kWh.  See
> >https://www.preprints.org/manuscript/201803.0122/v1
> >
> > Ken
> >___
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[EVDL] A comparison of different EV motor technology motors

[Rod Hower via EV]

I thought this was an excellent article comparing the plus and minuses of 
different motor technologies.It's interesting that BMW will be using a WRSM 
(Wound Rotor Synchronous Motor) in their 2022 BMW iX M6

'https://chargedevs.com/features/a-closer-look-at-brushed-ac-motors-in-evs/'
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[EVDL] Shenzhen Westart Technology company

[Rod Hower via EV]

Has anybody done business with this company?  They configure pouch cells into 
various voltage and Ahr configurations.They quoted a 48V, 105Ahr battery at 
$1076. www dot szwestart dot eu
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Re: [EVDL] Rich Rudman / Manzanita Micro

[Rod Hower via EV]

 He posted 9 pictures two days ago on Facebook off-roading in the Olympics, so 
he's still around, having some fun!
On Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at 03:41:31 PM EDT, Mr. Sharkey via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 Wondering if anyone knows the status of Manzanita Micro these days? 
I've been attempting to contact them regarding a repair to my PFC20 
charger, but phone messages go unreturned, and the "contact us" form 
on their web site throws loads of PHP errors. Site hasn't been 
updated since 2019.

Hoping it's just vacation time for Rich and I can get the service I 
need, but otherwise, is there any other entity that does repairs to 
this charger? Last time it was at MM, I sunk over $800 into it, so 
getting it working again is a priority. The old K BC-20 backup 
charger still works, but is somewhat limited in features.

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Re: [EVDL] JB Straubel Has a Fix for the Battery Problem

[Rod Hower via EV]

 All of the marketing and glamor was Elon, but JB Straubel was the engineering 
genius that made Tesla happen! He's continuing his contribution by creating 
this new recycling business that should make EV's even more sustainable.  I 
really recommend reading this article about a humble genius that made Tesla 
happen.  He kind of reminds me of Lee Hart who has helped so many EV convertors 
over the past several decades!  I know Lee doesn't post much because of email 
issues, but I think he still reads the EVDL.  Thanks to JB and Lee for making 
EV's happen!  I would also like to thank David Roden for keeping the EVDL 
alive!  I've been a member since 1997 and still read every post!

On Tuesday, June 21, 2022 at 10:33:57 PM EDT, Mr. Sharkey via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 An interesting read, I'll be forwarding this to several Muskiphiles 
who think that the world revolves around Elon, and who've neglected 
to consider others in the Tesla sphere who actually made the 
technology possible.

Here's a link to the original article:

https://time.com/6176778/jb-straubel-battery-problem/

In September of 2001, JB and I were working out a plan to caravan our 
two Rabbit pushers up Interstate 5 to Woodburn for the NEDRA drags. 
In the end, his schedule got so compressed, that he may not have made 
the event at all. much less with his car and trailer. I ended up 
hauling my pusher there behind my pickup truck after a small plasma 
fire annihilated the field control relay in my EV.

Moral of this story: Never randomly press down on contactors in your 
controller circuitry when the circuits are energized!

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[EVDL] JB Straubel Has a Fix for the Battery Problem

[Rod Hower via EV]

Some of the really old time list members will appreciate this story.  JB was a 
subscriber to the EVDL when he converted his Porsche to electric and then later 
cut a VW rabbit in half to make a range extender.
B Straubel Has a Fix for the Battery ProblemBY ALEJANDRO DE LA GARZA/RENO, NEV. 
MAY 19, 2022 5:29 PM EDTJB Straubel has spent the past two years covering a 
hillside with solar panels and rigging them up to cryptocurrency projects in 
his Carson City, Nev., mansion. Much of the equipment is essentially junk—the 
panels were all but worthless when the 46-year-old Tesla co-founder got them 
from a Texas solar plant, after a hailstorm voided their warranties. He’ll work 
on them alone for a whole weekend, spooling wire and rigging hardware in the 
rolling scrubland. Sometimes he thinks through his company’s latest engineering 
obstacles while he works. Other times he daydreams how best to divert cascades 
of photons from the sky, convert them, and suddenly there’s sunlight singing 
through the electrical grid, charging up cars, spinning a complete, beautiful 
system around and around: unlimited energy, for everyone, forever.
“What are you doing?” an employee said to Straubel once, arriving at the house 
to find him hauling solar panels outside. “You need to be getting ready for an 
interview right now.”
Straubel’s day job has attracted a lot of attention: he’s trying to head off a 
looming shortage of materials that the world needs to transition away from 
fossil fuels. Institutional investors last year signed over $775 million for 
his new venture, Redwood Materials, and in April the U.S. Senate called 
Straubel to give expert testimony on resources needed for the energy 
transition. He doesn’t much like the spotlight, though. “The engineering 
challenges are the fun part,” Straubel says in an interview. “This is more 
difficult.”
We need massive quantities of batteries to power a global energy transition and 
avert cataclysmic climate change. To produce them, we will need to mine more 
metals like lithium and cobalt than have been extracted in all of human 
history. U.S. companies have started planning huge new battery factories, but 
Straubel thinks we won’t have enough materials to supply them, not to mention 
that nearly all the world’s facilities to process those materials are in Asia, 
meaning they will have travel 10,000 miles before we can use them. To that end, 
Redwood Materials is building a gargantuan facility outside Reno, which will 
process new minerals, recycled batteries, and manufacturing scrap into enough 
copper foil and powdery, mineral-rich cathode active material to build 
batteries for about 1 million electric cars a year by 2025. To completely 
transition the U.S. to electric vehicles, we’ll need about 10 facilities of 
that size, with mining operations on an unheard-of scale to supply them. But 
once more old batteries start being retired, Straubel says, his facilities will 
switch to pure recycling, creating a closed, clean system in which we reuse 
minerals in one battery generation after another, forever.
The last part might sound like techno-optimist hyperbabble—but it doesn’t feel 
that way coming from Straubel. For one thing, he’s not blithely optimistic 
about the current climate situation (“It’s probably going to be a lot worse 
than most people expect,” he says). For another, his conversation lacks 
corporatist sheen; he has an anxious energy about him, and when he talks about 
himself, he almost physically winces. But when you ask him about an engineering 
system or a business plan, he’ll seize the question with almost adolescent 
animation, dive like a marlin, and then resurface after a while with an 
apologetic smile, asking, with a bit of concern, “Does that make sense?”
Straubel leans over a bright red 1984 Porsche that his staff pulled out of his 
personal Carson City Airport hangar. “Man, this is in bad shape,” he says, 
looking under the hood. “It makes me feel old.” As a Stanford University 
student in the 1990s, Straubel bought the car for $800. Its engine was shot, 
and he dragged it back to the university and began ripping it apart. Long 
before the first 2008 Tesla Roadsters rolled off the line, he had remade this 
junker into an electric supercar. Its top speed: 110 m.p.h.
Straubel has always had a project going. As a young child in 1970s-era Green 
Bay, Wis., they mostly involved Legos. In sixth grade, he built a miniature 
hovercraft, and in eighth grade rebuilt an old electric golf cart. In high 
school, he made a miniature blast furnace to melt down metal scrap out of a 
pony keg, a leaf blower, and an acetylene torch. Once, while trying to break 
down hydrogen peroxide into water and oxygen, he set off an explosion in his 
parents’ basement. Carol Straubel, his mother, was outside doing yard work at 
the time. “I knew it was JB,” she says. “I went running in the house about the 
same time he came running up the stairs with blood streaming down 

Re: [EVDL] HV connector for Transit Connect DC-DC

[Rod Hower via EV]

 I did a search with the subject of your email and could not pinpoint which one 
your looking for.  Do you have a PN or picture?
On Saturday, May 21, 2022, 12:54:34 PM EDT, John Lussmyer via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 Since my old jerry-rigged power supply DC-DC has failed, I'm going to switch 
to one of these units.  Apparently from Transit Connect conversions.  Anyone 
know where I can get the HV connector (red)?

--
Try my Sensible Email package!  https://sourceforge.net/projects/sensibleemail/
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Re: [EVDL] Gmail warning (list business)

[Rod Hower via EV]

 I read EVDL on my yahoo email account, however I also receive EVDL on my 
google account and save all of those messages in a folder (I have 18,000 
messages from many years).  So far I'm recieving everything on both email 
accounts.
On Saturday, May 21, 2022, 04:42:09 PM EDT, EV List Lackey via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 Gmail is the most-used email provider on this discussion list.  About a 
THIRD (!) of our subscribers have gmail.com addresses.

Since early March, Gmail - which used to be dead-on reliable - has been 
bouncing list mail.  

What's changed?  I have no idea. I don't think it's on our end.  I've 
checked the blacklists, and so far evdl.org's IP address comes up with its 
nose clean.  

THE SCORE: Since the beginning of May, the EV list has sent 39 individual 
emails and 5 digests.  If you're on Gmail, I suggest that you count how many 
you've gotten, if you can. Tou might want to make sure that you're getting 
all pf your non-EV-list email, too.  

I've spot checked the listserver bounce stats on several Gmail 
subscriptions. So far, every one of them is bouncing list mail to some 
extent.  Some seem to be bouncing a LOT of it.

I haven't seen any bounces lately from the Microsoft services (Hotmail, 
Outlook, Live, MSN).

Yahoo is bouncing a few messages, but nothing like Gmail is.

If you're looking to bail on Gmail, here's a free service I'm getting 100% 
reliability so far from:

https://disroot.org/en/

David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey

To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my 
offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
    I have three rules to live by. One, get your work done. If 
    that doesn't work, shut up and drink your gin. And when all 
    else fails, run like hell.

                                                -- Ray Bradbury
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 

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Re: [EVDL] New Volt Owner

[Rod Hower via EV]

 Congratulations on the Volt!This is a good group to follow that can answer 
most of your questions,"https://www.gm-volt.com/;

On Thursday, March 10, 2022, 09:06:04 AM EST, Bill Dennis via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 Unexpectedly, I am now the owner of a 2017 Chevy Volt with 22,000 miles on
the odometer.  If anyone has any advice or insights for a newbie, I'd be
glad to hear them.  The still has its 120V L1 charger.  In my first highway
test, it managed 59 miles before the gas engine kicked in, so not bad.  I'll
be driving the car about 1900 miles home in a few days, so that should give
the gas engine a workout.

Bill

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Re: [EVDL] $7.5bn for ev charging stations across the US

[Rod Hower via EV]

 In Ohio they classify the Chevy Volt as an EV which means I have to pay an 
extra $200 every year to update my registration.  If I drive on gasoline only I 
would have to go 25,000 miles to equate to the $200 extra fee.  They are 
definitely penalizing the EV driver!
On Saturday, February 12, 2022, 12:39:06 PM EST, EV List Lackey via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 On 12 Feb 2022 at 8:24, Mark Abramowitz via EV wrote:

> The slowness and lack of responsiveness of the utilities in California
> have been a big issue in trying to deploy the technology. 

You younguns weren't around then, but we crusty curmudgeons remember a half 
century and more back, when the electric utilities were pretty interested in 
electric vehicles.  They were a regulated monopoly and had plenty of extra 
capacity.  If they squinted just right, they could see dollar signs floating 
around up there, aaalmost ripe for the plucking.

If you were a small company building (converting) EVs that cost 3 to 10 
times what a comparable ICEV cost, just about the only customers you could 
really count on to lay out the green for them were those electric utilities. 
IIRC, most of Bob Aronson's infamous "elephant on roller skates"* Mars and 
Mars II lead sled conversions went to utilities.  

Ah, those were the days.  :-\  

*With thanks to Bob Rice, RIP

David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey

To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my 
offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
    I am the one with no secrets. They [the Chinese government] 
    have secrets. It is only because they have secrets that they 
    can imagine everyone else having them too.

                                                    -- Ai Weiwei
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 

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Re: [EVDL] RIP: Bob Bruninga

[Rod Hower via EV]

 Very sad, Bob was a good guy with many interesting projects.  RIP BobRodW8RNH
On Wednesday, February 9, 2022, 06:52:27 PM EST, Peri Hartman via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 Wow, that was quick. I remember him posting that he was ill, maybe a 
year or so ago. But he has been posting pretty regularly until, it 
seems, a few weeks ago. So, I was beginning to believe that he had a lot 
longer to go. So sad.

Peri

<< Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>

-- Original Message --
From: "Jack Hill via EV" 
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
Cc: "Jack Hill" 
Sent: 09-Feb-22 14:09:32
Subject: [EVDL] RIP: Bob Bruninga

>EVDL,
>
>With a sad heart, I'd like to share the American Radio Relay League's obituary 
>of Bob Bruninga who passed away on February 7th: 
>http://www.arrl.org/news/view/aprs-developer-bob-bruninga-wb4apr-sk
>
>I originally became familiar with Bob via amateur radio, so I was pleased to 
>find him involved in the electric vehicle community as well. He has given us 
>so much, let's keep his memory alive on the road and on the air.
>
>Best,
>Jack
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Re: [EVDL] Tesla’s Sneaky Rolling Stops

[Rod Hower via EV]

 The most logical response so far!  I never do a complete stop if there is no 
obvious approach of other vehicles, especially in a low MPH stop location.  I 
guess this is called human based AI for intersections!  I would also like to 
add that I've driven Tesla's and I'm not that impressed with their software for 
autonomous driving.  Let's keep in mind landing an airplane is probably 
considerably easier with autonomous software than driving a car.  There is a 
magnitude of variations with road driving compared to landing on a runway with 
navigation lights and specific markings on the runway.
On Saturday, February 5, 2022, 07:50:01 PM EST, Peter VanDerWal via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 Just thought I'd through my 2 bits in.

From an AI point of view, I don't see that there is a significant difference 
between coming to a stop before proceeding, and rolling through without 
stopping.
EIther the AI detects the other vehicle/pedestrian or it doesn't. I don't think 
coming to a complete stop before crossing an intersection will make a 
difference (to the AI)

Humans have a relatively narrow field of view, so the purpose of stopping is to 
remind them to look both ways before proceeding.  An AI driven car doesn't need 
to stop and turn it's head to see in both directions.

My PGP public key: https://vanderwal.us/evdl_pgp.key
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Re: [EVDL] Chevy Bolt 2020 50 mile Range Drop in One Year

[Rod Hower via EV]

 My 2014 Chevy Volt pulls almost 6kW initially in comfort mode when you turn on 
the heat.  It will ramp back to about 3kW if you keep the heat cranked up 
(which I do on cold days)  This takes a big hit on my range since the usable 
pack is only about 11kW anyhow and I have a 21 mile commute that takes 35 
minutes.  On the colder days (below 30F) I run out of battery and drive on gas 
for a mile or two.  That's the price of comfort I guess!
On Wednesday, December 22, 2021, 03:41:36 PM EST, Robert Bruninga via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 My son has a Bolt in Alaska and he has a short 3 mile commute but
has to go to max heater energy just to keep the windows
defogged.  I notice that too down here in Marland.

Humans put out a LOT of breath andhumidity and in the cold
that is all going to condense on the window.  So he uses pre-heat
and conditioning  Fully HALF of his battery energy goes to
defrosting and heat.

But with p re-heat, it does not affect range that much.

But is certainly a contributor to EV design

bob

Bob

On Mon, Dec 20, 2021 at 9:33 PM Mike Chancey via EV  wrote:
>
> I am told GM can't do over the air updates on the Bolt except to the
> infotainment system, and they have never bothered to do that.  Have you had
> any of the recalls performed yet?  My 2020 Bolt LT has not been made
> eligible for the recall battery replacement or even the interim software
> that limits full charge to 80%. If you are in an area with cooler weather
> you might want to check to see if you have the auto defrost function
> enabled. Some folks have seen a significant range hit when that activates. I
> have just been seeing the lost of miles per kilowatt hour that comes with
> cold weather and heater use.  I don't charge to 100% since the recall, just
> 90% per GMs recommendations so I can't compare my range, and there are too
> many other variables to make a comparison valid.
>
> Mike Chancey
> 2020 Chevy Bolt LT
> Kansas City, MO
>
> -Original Message-
> From: EV  On Behalf Of mark hanson via EV
> Sent: Monday, December 20, 2021 7:55 PM
> To: 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List' 
> Cc: mark hanson 
> Subject: [EVDL] Chevy Bolt 2020 50 mile Range Drop in One Year
>
> Hi Folks,
>
>
>
> My 260 mile $30K Chevy Bolt 2020 range dropped to 210 this year.  I normally
> charge to 80% for local trips (although that tidbit is missing from the
> manual/display unlike the Leaf & Tesla).  When I charge to 100% last month
> it was still about 260 miles, now this week it dropped to 210 miles.  I read
> that there were some battery issues at 100% (maybe because they didn't tell
> folks to charge to 80% for local use).  The battery was advertised as 64KWH
> although it's stamped underneath at 62KWH but now behaving like a 50KWH or
> 80% battery pack.  I wonder if the Mother Ship downloaded a 80% operation
> through OnStar that it has (but I didn't pay for)?
>
>
>
> Has anyone had this happened on their Bolt.  I was going to buy a cheaper
> 210 mile Leaf, but bought the Bolt for the longer range, oops - now the same
> as the cheaper Leaf.
>
>
>
> The Tesla Y at the same 21K miles is still doing 325 miles range and charges
> *much* faster (up to 200KW pre-cooling the pack), more fast charging
> stations through the easy to use GPS.
>
>
>
> Have a renewable energy day,
>
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> Mark E. Hanson
>
> 184 Vista Lane
>
> Fincastle, VA 24090
>
> 540-473-1248 phone & FAX, 540-816-0812 cell
>
> REEVA: community service RE & EV project club
>
> Website: www.REEVAdiy.org (See Project Gallery)
>
> UL Certified PV Installer
>
> My RE Circuits: www.EVDL.org/lib/mh
>
> REEVA Demo:   http://youtu.be/4kqWn2H-rA0
>
>
>  75b8d/signature> Fincastle Solar Weather Station
>
>
>
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Re: [EVDL] 24 FET Nucular controller, Revolt 160 Esm motor

[Rod Hower via EV]

 "Why Nucular?
In English "Nucular" is a commonly used mispronunciation of the word "nuclear". 
We used this word to emphasize high power density of our controllers"
On Monday, December 20, 2021, 12:43:43 AM EST, EV List Lackey via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 On 19 Dec 2021 at 18:50, Peter VanDerWal via EV wrote:

> For David: apparently there is a company making EV controllers called
> "Nucular"  https://nucular.tech/  However, I don't know what relatioship they
> have with Mr Bush.

Interesting!  I's a curious name.  

Are they having a little fun with words?  That used to be a great tradition 
among tech folks, but I see less of it these days.  

Could they really be needling Bush a bit?  

Or is it just the fact that they're in Russia?  Sometimes non-native English 
speakers come up with curious names and/or unusual or incorrect spellings.  
For example, if you look online you can find a range of imported pet feeding 
and watering products called "Honey Guaridan."  (Look at that second word 
more closely.)

Practically speaking, their controllers seem to be semi-vaporware (proposed 
delivery of a KIT in 7 months?), so I wonder how Lawrence's friend got one.

David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey

To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my 
offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt

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    a smaller boy. I expostulated, but he replied: "The bigs hit 
    me, so I hit the babies; that's fair." In these words he 
    epitomized the history of the human race.

            -- Bertrand Russell, "Education and the Social Order"
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Re: [EVDL] Join Home Electrification on Nextdoor

[Rod Hower via EV]

 "we still stay within Baseline consumption,
which means less than about 10kWh a day."I use 10kWh to drive 21 miles to work 
each day one way with my 2014 Chevy Volt, another 10kWh to drive home!

On Friday, December 3, 2021, 02:10:06 AM EST, Lawrence Rhodes via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 

We have been converting over a decade. Solar panels about 15 years ago. Cost 
too much and too small. However it makes it big difference when you can do a 
lot of chores using 120vac appliances. We replaced the 1935 electric water 
heater with a new one in 2015. We bought a used Bosch ventless clothes dryer 
for a hundred bucks. Bought three induction cook plates new or used for 50 
bucks or less each. Bought a $99 Oster French door oven which will do 16-inch 
pizzas or a small turkey as well as casseroles. Have a crockpot. We use space 
heaters so I suppose it would be cheaper to go heat pump. I'll talk to Cor 
about that. All in all we did it on the cheap even selling our old gas stove 
which paid for all the induction hot plates. Very convenient. You can move them 
around and put them away to make room to chop food. Our total transportation 
and household energy cost was $450 for last year which included transportation 
with EVs totaling 12k miles for two cars and all household usage. We did try to 
use energy while the sun shines and took advantage of free charging at work and 
at Nissan dealers. Lawrence Rhodes 




On Thursday, December 2, 2021, 10:47:49 PM PST, Cor van de Water 
 wrote: 





I see it is dedicated to San Francisco area.
Home electrification is going to happen.
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[EVDL] Recycled battery materials perform as well as or even better than virgin materials

[Rod Hower via EV]

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/recycled-lithium-ion-battery-charge?utm_source=email_medium=email_campaign=latest-newsletter-v2_source=Latest_Headlines_medium=email_campaign=Latest_Headlines
“Based on our study, recycled materials can perform as well as, or even better 
than, virgin materials,” says materials scientist Yan Wang of Worchester 
Polytechnic Institute in Massachusetts.
Using shredded spent batteries, Wang and colleagues extracted the electrodes 
and dissolved the metals from those battery bits in an acidic solution. By 
tweaking the solution’s pH, the team removed impurities such as iron and copper 
and recovered over 90 percent of three key metals: nickel, manganese and 
cobalt. The recovered metals formed the basis for the team’s cathode material.
In tests of how well batteries maintain their capacity to store energy after 
repeated use and recharging, batteries with recycled cathodes outperformed ones 
made with brand-new commercial materials of the same composition. It took 
11,600 charging cycles for the batteries with recycled cathodes to lose 30 
percent of their initial capacity. That’s about 50 percent better than the 
respectable 7,600 cycles for the batteries with new cathodes, the team reports 
October 15 in Joule. Those thousands of extra cycles could translate into years 
of better battery performance, Wang says.
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Re: [EVDL] 500HP towing monster starting at $24k

[Rod Hower via EV]

 That article looks like they are trolling for dollars!  They really don't have 
a chance at competing at this point in the US.  If the Ford F150 Lightning 
aligns with the marketing, they will be a huge success.  I have only bought one 
pickup in my 38 years of driving, and it was a $250 beater in NC back in 1994.  
I used it to haul mulch and lumber.  The F150 Lightning is the only truck I 
have considered purchasing ever!  My 2014 Chevy Volt has 112,000 miles and runs 
great and suits all of my transit needs, however if it dies I'll be buying the 
Ford F150 Lightning!
On Monday, October 18, 2021, 09:47:57 PM EDT, Lawrence Rhodes via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 
https://cnevpost.com/2021/07/15/leap-motors-flagship-suv-c11-to-go-into-mass-production-in-october/
  I thought this was an interesting example of what China is going to be 
putting out. Ford will have a hard time competing. Lawrence Rhodes


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Re: [EVDL] HV DC input -to- 120VDC output inverter???

[Rod Hower via EV]

 Have you tried connecting your Volt or Bolt to this inverter?
On Sunday, October 17, 2021, 11:07:44 AM EDT, Peter VanDerWal via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 You mean like a Solarcity H6 (AKA Delta H6)?

When Tesla bought out Solarcity they dropped this inverter, someone has been 
clearing them out on Ebay for $400 or so.

It was originally designed to wrok with something like a Powerwall for backup 
power, but will work without it and people have reported success with 
connecting the HV battery packs on EVs to the PV input (accepts 120V to 550V 
input)


My PGP public key: https://vanderwal.us/evdl_pgp.key

October 15, 2021 1:57 PM, "Robert Bruninga via EV"  wrote:

> Mark,
> 
>> I used to design switching power supplies...
> 
> Have you considered filling the strong market need for a 200-500 VDC input
> to 120 VAC output 2 kW inverter that can be used on Solar systems to
> charge any EV (via its own EVSE) independent of the grid. There is a
> CRYING need for this high-demand inverter.
> 
> Or it can be used to power one's house from one's EV when the grid
> goes down? So much potential!
> Bob
> 
> On Fri, Oct 15, 2021 at 8:26 AM Mark Hanson via EV  wrote:
> 
>> Hi folks
>> All the EVs I’ve converted over the years until 2011 , Electro Metro, 
>> Cushman, Cheese Wedge, Geo
>> Tracker, Porsche 914, Karmann Ghia, I was able to pick up all radio stations 
>> including AM but
>> mostly listen to NPR on low band FM. I used to design switching power 
>> supplies and class D
>> amplifiers to meet FCC part B EMI requirements in my day job.
>> All power cables a pos-neg (to cancel magnetic RF) are tightly ty wrapped 
>> together under the far
>> right passenger side underneath the car and all the control wires under the 
>> left side. The speed
>> control must be as close to the motor as possible with short cables (that’s 
>> the main EMI source).
>> You can put an inline common mode choke pi filter on the 12V wires feeding 
>> the radio but I didn’t
>> have to. Just proper layout of power components separate from control wiring 
>> is the main
>> consideration.
>> Best regards
>> Mark
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [EVDL] BMS question

[Rod Hower via EV]

 There are great resources for electric powered sail boats at 
electricbo...@groups.io https://groups.io/g/electricboats 
On Wednesday, October 6, 2021, 07:25:44 PM EDT, steve sawtelle via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 I guess this may qualify as an old-school question now.

About 12 years ago I built an electric motorcycle. I actually had it up and 
running, but other things got in the way and I am abandoning the project.  The 
rolling chassis will get back it's ICE and I need to find a home for the 7" Jim 
Husted motor and the controls. I have a new endeavor now - a small cruising 
sailboat (CLC Pocketship). I'm thinking of using a trolling motor as the backup 
to the sails and I hope to repurpose some of my 100 A-H Thundersky batteries 
for power. My batteries have been sitting for 10 years but still are at around 
3.25V. I need to cycle them to see if they are still viable of course. If they 
are, what BMS is recommended for them now? I did a  bit of searching but didn't 
see much.

-steve
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Re: [EVDL] Stella Vita. Solar Home on Wheels. SHOW

[Rod Hower via EV]

 I've always thought RV's were expensive and a waste of money.  This design 
looks like a retirement vehicle I could fully embrace for traveling!
On Friday, September 10, 2021, 01:59:17 PM EDT, Lawrence Rhodes via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 
https://solarteameindhoven.nl/article?presenting-our-newest-solar-vehicle-stella-vita
 The engineering students of Eindhoven are not sitting on their laurels. 
Another genius engineering design. Bravo. Lawrence Rhodes
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Re: [EVDL] LIVE stream 8/31/21 1540 PST A physicist consultant to power utilities on how the EV mass adoption is affecting the

[Rod Hower via EV]

 
https://chargedevs.com/newswire/tesla-says-new-recycling-process-recovers-92-of-battery-materials/

Tesla says they can recover 92% of the materials when recycling.
On Wednesday, September 1, 2021, 02:34:38 PM EDT, Ed Blackmond via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 

> On Sep 1, 2021, at 9:53 AM, Willie via EV  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On 9/1/21 10:20 AM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
>> It could be that the grid can't handle any significant generation of PV 
>> energy. If it could, economics would dictate that excess PV energy would be 
>> sold, not shut down.
>> 
>> The other possibility is this will produce an incentive to create hydrogen 
>> storage for excess PV energy. In my opinion, that's an excellent use for 
>> electrolysis plus either hydrogen turbines or fuel cells. Note, for this 
>> application, the hydrogen does not need to be compressed.
> 
> 
> Speaking without great familiarity with storage costs, I think short term 
> battery storage is most likely to solve the problem. Battery stored energy 
> can get to the grid for only about a 20% loss while hydrogen, as I 
> understand, will be FAR less efficient.
> 
> Typically, over production of either wind or PV can be managed with storage 
> of well under 24 hours.  We can look forward to continued battery cost 
> reductions, especially from Tesla.
> 
> For longer term storage, hydrogen might find a niche.
> 
There will soon be more battery storage than we know what to do with. All these 
electric vehicles with 200+ mile range will need to replace their batteries 
when the range drops below an acceptable level. 

These batteries will still be quite useful for grid storage/backup. It doesn’t 
really matter how much ground space a battery requires when it is sitting under 
a solar array.

When the batteries are depleted enough to no longer be useful for this 
application, they are going to be in centralized locations simplifying the 
recycling process and they can become new batteries for cars, starting the 
cycle all over again.

Ed
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Electric Eel - partway there

[Rod Hower via EV]

 I just read this one today about the all electric 
Seaglider,https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/regent-seaglider-wing-in-ground-effect-vehicle/index.html


On Friday, August 27, 2021, 02:05:35 AM EDT, EVDL Administrator via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 "Electric EEL is an adapted six-seat Cessna. There is a conventional 
combustion engine in the back of the plane that drives the rear propeller.

"... [a] compartment under the cabin holds six batteries - originally built 
for motorcycles - that power the front propeller.

"The replacement of one conventional engine with the batteries makes the 
plane lighter - hence the steeper climb - but also, the makers argue, 
quieter, cheaper, greener."

Full story:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/aug/24/decarbonising-aviation-
the-electric-eel-could-be-the-future-of-flying

or https://v.gd/6GqNDa

David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey

To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my 
offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt

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    Listen to the mustn'ts, child; listen to the don'ts. 
    Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. 
    Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me: 
    Anything can happen, child.  Anything can be.  

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Re: [EVDL] Tesla's Self Driving Feature

[Rod Hower via EV]

 I haven't heard from John Wayland for awhile.  Is he still involved with EV's? 
 Did he ever finish his Honda Insight conversion?
On Friday, July 9, 2021, 02:48:05 PM EDT, Damon Henry via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 

>I think that most Tesla devotees are either unaware of or underestimate the 
>level of distaste (to put it mildly) for Elon Musk that exists on the 
>periphery of EV interest.  

>I know, the plural of anecdote isn't data, but I see a lot of comments 
>online from thoughtful, reasonable people who'd like to own EVs, but aren't 
>at all keen on handing their money to Musk.  

Count my wife among one of these.  The first thing she said when she found out 
my son was buying a spiffy new Model 3 was that she did not want Elon Musk 
getting that money.  It surprised me, but she has a real distaste for Elon.

Personally I do not like the fact that Tesla seems to think they still own the 
car, even after they have sold it to you.  

I'm happy for now with my 2016 eGolf that I recently acquired.  It is so much 
better then anything I ever built myself and I would have to say better then 
any homebrew EVs I have been around, and I live 17 miles from my good friend 
John Wayland, so I have been around a lot of well done DIY EVs.  I'm totally 
done with DIY conversions.  By the time I am ready for my next OEM EV purchase 
I would expect there to be a much wider variety for me to chose from.  For that 
I owe Tesla and Elon a debt of gratitude :)

Damon

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[EVDL] Car and Driver EV contenders 2021

[Rod Hower via EV]

Let's see if this one 
workswww.caranddriver.com/features/a36877370/2021-car-and-driver-ev-of-the-year-contenders/
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[EVDL] Car and Driver EV's evaluation 2021

[Rod Hower via EV]

They didn't test them all, mainly because they couldn't get vehicles to 
evaluate.The Ford MachE took the prize!
2021 Car and Driver EV of the Year: The Contenders


| 
| 
| 
|  |  |

 |

 |
| 
|  | 
2021 Car and Driver EV of the Year: The Contenders

With electric vehicles primed to go mainstream, we assess the field and pick 
the best.
 |

 |

 |



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Re: [EVDL] Vehicle to grid power?

[Rod Hower via EV]

 Did you install one of these in your Volt Peter?  Looking at the emergency 
backup one for $189 on my 2014 Volt
On Tuesday, May 25, 2021, 09:07:21 PM EDT, Peter VanDerWal via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 All of the pickups that are supposedly coming out will have that, at least as 
an option.

I've seen references to it on Cybertruck, Lordstown, and Rivian.

Plus there is a website about adding 1kw inverters to Chevy Volts and many 
other EVs:
https://www.evextend.com/Products.php

My PGP public key: https://vanderwal.us/evdl_pgp.key

May 25, 2021 5:19 PM, "paul dove via EV"  wrote:

> The Ford F-150 EV 
> 
> Sent from AT Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> 
> On Tuesday, May 25, 2021, 11:49 AM, Robert Bruninga via EV 
>  wrote:
> 
> does anyone know of any vehicles with 120v outlets that are bigger
> than 150 watts?
> 
> Im working on an article talking about the Ford F150's 10kw outlet
> power.  I want to be sure to mention  any other vehicles that have it
> 
> bob
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Re: [EVDL] Ford F-150 Reveal - Great for everyone!

[Rod Hower via EV]

 
“Growth forthe sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell.” — Edward 
Abbey
In order tomaintain the endless expansion and infinite growth that capitalist 
economiesrequire, our economy demands ever-increasing levels of extraction, 
productionand consumption. In fact, economists and politicians generally 
believewe need to keep the global economy growing by around 3 percent annually, 
that meaning that the economy needs to double every 20 years —that’s twice as 
much of everything 20 years from now — andthen twice as much as that 20 years 
later.It’s not hard to see how this kind ofexponential, infinite growth is 
impossible on a finite planet — and it’s nosurprise that we’re seeing 
ecosystems collapse. 

On Friday, May 21, 2021, 11:07:31 PM EDT, Gary Krysztopik via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 "The Master's tools will never dismantle the Master's house".  This is
Ford's solution to the problem that they created (massively oversized
trucks everywhere).  Their solution must lie within their wheelhouse (pun
intended).  It's a step in the right direction but too little too late.
With respect to the climate emergency we shouldn't praise a micro-step in
the right direction.  They did it because they had to (which is good), but
we need big change.  I'm not celebrating a 6,000 lb electric truck to move
one person around and maybe a sheet of plywood once a year.  We need to
focus on commuter footprint and right-sized vehicles.  What about using 90%
fewer resources (10kwh pack instead of 100kwh) and 90% less life time
energy (500 lb vehicle vs 5,000 lb vehicle) if it can do the same job?

On Fri, May 21, 2021 at 4:18 PM Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield via EV <
ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:

> YES! AMEN!
>
> > On May 21, 2021, at 2:30 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV 
> wrote:
> >
> > Each 14 MPG gas guzzling pickup commuter that gets taken off the road
> > for a new F150 Lightening, accomplishes more for the environment and
> > all of us than maybe three other EV purchases.  So this is a WIN-WIN
> > all the way around.
> >
> > FINALLY something I can talk about in common with the "good ole boys"
> > Bob
> >
> > Back to the Ford F-150 Lightning - $40-90k before incentives. Doesn’t
> > sound cheap, but it performs better than any F-150 has ever performed,
> > which is exactly what’s needed to generate sales and excitement, and
> > make it *the* F-150 to own.
> > If it gets people interested in EVs as a cool, high performance
> vehicle, that’s great.
> > This is a middle America meat and potatoes vehicle.
> > I see this vehicle as game-changing as the Tesla.
> >>> I think it will be popular. So much for making efficient vehicles
> - one estimate I read put the small pack at 115kWh. But most buyers won't
> care. They want the F-150 look, the power, and the range. It must weigh a
> ton. No, make that 3 tons.
> > Same price for the low end model. Lots of intelligent features. This
> is a real competitor to the Cybertruck. Lawrence Rhodes
> > ___
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Re: [EVDL] Ford F-150 Reveal

[Rod Hower via EV]

 My son put $100 down for the Tesla Cybertruck.  He will sell his 13 MPG lifted 
Jeep Gladiator once he gets the Cybertruck.
On Thursday, May 20, 2021, 01:38:32 PM EDT, Mark Abramowitz via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 But back to the Ford F-150 Lightning - $40-90k before incentives. Doesn’t 
sound cheap, but it performs better than any F-150 has ever performed, which is 
exactly what’s needed to generate sales and excitement, and make it *the* F-150 
to own. Hopefully the base 230 mile range will be sufficient for most.

$100 to reserve one - any takers on this list?

- Mark

Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone

> On May 20, 2021, at 7:11 AM, Mark Abramowitz  wrote:
> 
> Didn’t exactly sneak it in...just put it where it made sense.
> 
> I agree about a range extended, but for those who want the option to pull 
> lots of power out at a construction site, or *maybe* even a landscaper that 
> need to charge their batteries for their equipment, a fuel cell for auxiliary 
> power may make more sense.
> 
> - Mark
> 
> Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone
> 
>> On May 20, 2021, at 7:03 AM, Peri Hartman via EV  wrote:
>> 
>> Haha, I new you'd sneak in fuel cells. :) I'll give you this. I think it 
>> makes more sense to do range extension with a fuel cell than with an ICE.
>> 
>> Does anyone have an idea which would be more compact for a given amount of 
>> net energy: fuel cell + tank or battery ?
>> 
>> Peri
>> 
>> << Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>
>> 
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Mark Abramowitz" 
>> To: "Peri Hartman" ; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
>> 
>> Sent: 19-May-21 10:39:27 PM
>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Ford F-150 Reveal
>> 
>>> I really don’t care - if it gets people interested in EVs as a cool, high 
>>> performance vehicle, that’s great.
>>> 
>>> This is a middle America meat and potatoes vehicle.
>>> 
>>> Over time it will get lighter, and what you saw was one with added weight 
>>> from a larger battery pack and other extras.
>>> 
>>> I wouldn’t be surprised that option disappeared over time, and if you need 
>>> all that extra juice, you’ll be able to get a fuel cell electric version. 
>>> (Sorry, that’s just the more fitting EV option for that need)
>>> 
>>> I see this vehicle as game-changing as the Tesla.
>>> 
>>> Then there are the other two that they drove up on stage - both look great, 
>>> but actually the light commercial vehicle is of greater import and impact.
>>> 
>>> - Mark
>>> 
>>> Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone
>>> 
>> On May 19, 2021, at 8:59 PM, Peri Hartman via EV  
>> wrote:
> 
> I think it will be popular. So much for making efficient vehicles - one 
> estimate I read put the small pack at 115kWh. But most buyers won't care. 
> They want the F-150 look, the power, and the range. It must weigh a ton. 
> No, make that 3 tons.
> 
> Peri
> 
> << Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>
> 
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Lawrence Rhodes via EV" 
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
> Cc: "Lawrence Rhodes" 
> Sent: 19-May-21 7:18:43 PM
> Subject: [EVDL] Ford F-150 Reveal
> 
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yjisj5T0VqE Bigger frunk than Tesla. 
>> Same price for the low end model. Lots of intelligent features. This is 
>> a real competitor to the Cybertruck. Lawrence Rhodes
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> 
>>> 
>> 
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> 
> 

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Re: [EVDL] Wash. will try again to for EV sales mandate

[Rod Hower via EV]

 In Ohio they charged me $200 for my Chevy Volt which is the EV add on instead 
of the $100 extra for hybrids.  I also have vanity plates 'VOLTGE' and The 
University of Akron emblem (roo).  So it was $344 to register for one year.
On Saturday, May 15, 2021, 06:20:16 PM EDT, Peri Hartman via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 Doesn't that depend on how the road tax is calculated ? I don't know the 
formula proposed in this case but it's easy to imagine a formula base on
- miles traveled
- efficiency
- weight

When everything was powered by gas, the gas tax was generally fair. That 
isn't true any more. Yet, we still need to pay for roads, somehow.

To me, the big issue is privacy. If a gps device is used to track miles, 
it can also track location. However, it seems possible to design a 
open-source device that only retains miles and cannot report location.

On the contrary, most people are milling about with gps enabled on their 
phones, giving google and their carrier more info than could ever be 
gleaned from a vehicle tracker.

Peri

<< Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>

-- Original Message --
From: "EVDL Administrator via EV" 
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
Cc: "EVDL Administrator" 
Sent: 15-May-21 9:20:51 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Wash. will try again to for EV sales mandate

>A road tax is just a fine for EV owners to punish them for not using
>petroleum, and discourage motorists from switching to EVs.  On the contrary,
>if they actually want EVs (spoiler: they don't), they should waive as many
>fees on them as possible.
>
>IMO, the fair way to recover fuel tax revenue is a pollution surcharge to
>the license renewal fee, based on the vehicle's EPA MPG or MPGe rating.  The
>more energy the vehicle uses, the more the owner pays.  This is similar to
>the yearly vehicle taxes levied in many other countries, based on ICEV
>engine displacement.  It will (mildly) encourage vehicle buyers to consider
>efficiency.
>
>David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey
>
>To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my
>offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt
>
>= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>      Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent
>      revolution inevitable.
>
>                                    -- John F Kennedy
>= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
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Re: [EVDL] Does the Biden infrastructure proposal include rail electrification?

[Rod Hower via EV]

 It doesn't matter what powers the rail, it's much cheaper!To compare the costs 
of rail vs truck shipping, consider the movement of a bulk commodity from 
Houston, TX to Cleveland, OH. The truck cost in this example lane is 
approximately $ 5,159 per load, whereas rail would be $ 6,676 per car. However, 
when comparing the costs of rail vs truck shipping, you must apply a ratio of 
1:4, since one railcar equates to four truck loads.
Trains are much cheaper than on road trucking and reduce the destruction of 
interstate highways due to heavy trucks.
On Saturday, April 10, 2021, 04:29:29 PM EDT, Paul Wallace via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 I’ve been amused with all this work going into autonomous trucking, but I 
wonder if the money and energy wouldn’t be better spent with serious upgrades 
to freight rail service, including long haul electrification.  Much of what I 
hear and see with the vision of trucking is that eventually, the trucks will be 
able to run nose to tail in trains on the highway.  For regional delivery this 
may make sense, but I think that if the freight rail system was seriously 
upgraded and electrified, large amounts of material could be moved across the 
country relatively quickly.  Not as quickly as with planes, but the 
environmental cost of jet aircraft is very high.  Each rail car can carry at 
least 4 freight containers of material whereas now, each semi truck can move at 
most one.  In addition, there is no competition for right of way on the rails, 
no pesky cars making unpredictable maneuvers to try to go faster than the flow.

The Biden proposal is focused on passenger rail as far as I can tell.  Is there 
any mention of electrification expansion in the proposal, or is it sticking 
with diesel electric locomotives except where the line is electrified already?  
Electric locomotives should pay back in terms of maintenance costs the same as 
EVs.  Electric busses, trackless trolleys, I think are a good indicator of 
this.  Just removing the Diesel engine and supplying the electricity to the 
motors from a third rail or catenary overhead has been proven to be reliable.

Paul
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Re: [EVDL] Charging payment system costs. Was: BYD Blade

[Rod Hower via EV]

 That's a valid point (not making money on gas) and one of the reasons there is 
huge potential for charging stations.  If somebody stops their vehicle for 15 
minutes to charge there is a good opportunity to make the stop attractive to 
buy items.  I'm thinking of charging access at restaurants, super markets and 
other retail centers where they could discount the electricity if people 
patronize the store.
On Tuesday, March 30, 2021, 01:38:48 PM EDT, Mark Abramowitz via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 Sometimes I see things posted here so outrageous I *have* to respond, no 
matter who said it.

Filling stations make virtually nothing from sale of fuel. Margins are razor 
thin.  They make their money from other things, like selling soda or candy, or 
having a car wash.

Sheesh!

- Mark

Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone

> On Mar 30, 2021, at 9:13 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV  
> wrote:
> 
> On 30 Mar 2021 at 17:11, Jukka Järvinen via EV wrote:
> 
>> The thing is one full tank of gasoline is (at least in here) around
>> $80-100. That is much more than the 40-50 kWh with normal electricity
>> prices (~10c/kWh) which is only $4-5 per charge 
> 
> Thanks - I think that I see part of the problem.  It sounds like the 
> charging companies are expecting cost percentages and revenue similar to 
> filling stations.
> 
> That isn't possible yet.  EV charging is a business in its infancy.  The 
> charging companies must be patient.  In the future the number of EVs will 
> grow (especially in EU), their use for long distance travel will increase,  
> and their batteries will get larger.  Then of course the charging business 
> volume will increase.
> 
> EV adoption can be speeded up by making charging easier and more accessable!
> 
> In the meantime, they should have more realistic expectations, and watch 
> their expenses.  Maybe they are paying their CEOs too much. :-)
> 
> Perhaps what is needed is a tax credit or subsidy for the credit card fees.
> 
>> The centrally executed (in app purchases) is doable and widely used. 
> 
> I read recently that Apple and Google take 30% of in-app purchases as their 
> commission.  That's an outrageous amount!  It can't possibly be less than 
> credit card fees.  
> 
> David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey
> 
> To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my 
> offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt
> 
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
>    Some people ask, "Why?" Others ask, "Why not?" 
>    Then later they say, "Oh."
> 
>                              -- Found on the Net
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
> 
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[EVDL] Hyundai battery recall

[Rod Hower via EV]

New York (CNN Business)Hyundai will recall 82,000electric cars globally to 
replace their batteries after 15 reports of fires involving the vehicles. 
Despite therelatively small number of cars involved, Hyundai's recall is one of 
the mostexpensive in history, signaling how electric car defects could create 
heftycosts for automakers — at least in the near future.

The recall will cost Hyundai 1 trillion Korean won, or $900million. On a 
per-vehicle basis, the average cost is $11,000 — anastronomically high number 
for a recall.

Replacing an entire battery is an extreme measure, requiringa similar amount of 
work and expense as replacing an entire engine of atraditional internal 
combustion-powered car. Very few recalls of gasolinepowered cars require an 
entire engine to be replaced. One of the few exceptionswas a 2014 recall of 785 
of the Porsche 911 GT3 sports cars. Porsche did notrelease the cost of that 
recall, but it was certainly more expensive on aper-vehicle basis than this 
Hyundai recall.

Still, a recall costing more than $11,000 per vehicle isextremely rare. Precise 
figures are not available because most automakers donot disclose the cost of 
their recalls.

Because there are so many more gasoline-powered cars on theroad than EVs, the 
total cost of those recalls can easily exceed the $900million this recall is 
costing Hyundai. For example General Motors recentlytook a $1.2 billion charge 
for the cost of replacing Takata airbags, but that covered 7million vehicles, 
meaning the recall cost less than $200 per vehicle. Theaverage cost of an auto 
recall over the last 10 years was about $500 pervehicle, according to Mike 
Held, a director in the automotive and industrialpractice at AlixPartners, a 
global consulting firm.

"Overall, battery safety and durability will beincreasingly important if auto 
companies want to avoid some of the largebattery-recall costs that have 
befallen the consumer-electronicsindustry," he said.

The cost of Hyundai's recall is another indication of justhow expensive EV 
batteries are relative to the cost of the entire car. Untilthe cost of 
batteries comes down, through greater production worldwide andeconomies of 
scale, the cost of making electric vehicles will remain higherthan comparable 
gasoline cars.

Once batteries do become less expensive, as is expected inthe coming years, EVs 
could become much cheaper to build because they have fewermoving parts and 
require as much as 30% fewer hours of labor for assemblycompared to traditional 
vehicles.

Automakersare going green to save money, not just the planet

The fewer parts on the EVs could also mean that recallsshould be less common 
than for internal combustion-powered cars. But in thenear term, there could be 
significant costs if battery fire problems requirebattery replacements.

Battery fires

No one was injured in any of the Hyundai fires, many ofwhich took place after 
the cars were shut off and sitting empty. None of thefires took place in the 
United States. The US National Highway Traffic SafetyAdministration estimated 
last October that there are 6,700 electric Hyundai Konas, the US version of the 
affected vehicles, onAmerican roads.

Hyundai said an investigation into the fires showed the cars'defective LG-made 
battery cells could short circuit.

The recall also covers the Ioniq EV, and Elec City vehiclesin South Korea. The 
recall includes 27,000 Korean vehicles and 55,000 elsewherein the world.

Fires involving EV batteries are not unique to thesevehicles. GM (GM) isalso 
recalling an earlier version its electric Chevrolet Bolt because of fire 
problems caused by itsown LG battery, although a different model than the one 
triggering the Hyundairecall.

GM is not replacing the batteries in the 68,000 Bolts beingrecalled globally. 
Of that total, nearly 51,000 are in the United States. Whilethe automaker isn't 
saying how its problem will be addressed, it is likely tobe handled with a 
software update.

Tesla (TSLA) alsohad a problem with battery fires early in its history, but 
that was tiedto road debris kicking up and damaging the batteries.Most EV 
batteries are installed across the bottom of the car. Tesla dealt withthe 
problem by adding more undercarriage shielding to protect thebatteries.

Gasoline or diesel cars also present fire risks, typicallyafter accidents when 
drivers and passengers are still in the vehicle, posinga greater safety threat.


| 
| 
| 
|  |  |

 |

 |
| 
|  | 
Are electric cars more likely to catch fire?

Chris Isidore

Recent fiery crashes involving Tesla are raising concerns about the safety of 
electric cars. But carrying a tank...
 |

 |

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Hyundai said it is still in talks with battery supplier LGEnergy Solutions to 
determine which company will be responsible for the cost.The Korean Transport 
ministry seemed to blame LG for the fire problems in itsstatement on the 
recall, attributing them to a misaligned battery cell.

But LG's statement, which 

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Your mail may arrive by EV - or it may not

[Rod Hower via EV]

 Why is the partisan hack Dejoy even employed?  Why do we have a defense 
contractor building USPS vehicles when we have a wide range of lower cost 
manufacturers that can build them much cheaper?  A postal vehicle is the 
perfect application for EV with start/stop routes and regen to increase 
efficiency.  This makes absolutely no sense.  I'm hoping this decision will be 
overturned and we can have a common sense solution for this poor judgement!  I 
don't think this story is over yet, but if they decide to use a higher 
percentage of gas vehicles for USPS I'll be very critical of the new 
administration that I thought would bring a little more sense to the political 
landscape!   
On Wednesday, February 24, 2021, 09:13:08 PM EST, EVDL Administrator via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 On 24 Feb 2021 at 11:10, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:

> Anybody want to guess how many EVs the USPS will order?  Based on their 
> history with EVs, I'd guess maybe 20% if we're lucky, but I'm a congenital
> pessimist.

Good grief, it turns out that I was OPTIMISTIC.  Look here:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-02-24/post-office-purchase-of-
gasoline-truck-seems-to-defy-biden-order

https://v.gd/tc6Uqk

"The U.S. Postal Service currently plans for only 10% of its new truck fleet 
to be electric, Postmaster General Louis DeJoy said Wednesday, angering 
environmentalists who say the move flies in the face of a White House 
executive order to electrify the government´s vehicles."

I have no words.  Welll, actually I do, but I don't want to get into 
partisan politics and/or start a flame war.

I will say this, however, because I've said it many times before.  Despite 
what Tesla fans might like to think, the EV train has left the US station 
and it's on a one-way trip.  Its central terminal is now in Europe, with a 
large hub in Asia.  

Actually, if Musk is as smart a businessman as he seems to think he is, 
he'll get Tesla out of the US and set up shop where the market is.

David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey

To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my 
offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
    Never underestimate the ability of humans to overestimate their 
    ability. 

                                        -- anonymous
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 

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Re: [EVDL] Pandemic Cell Fade

[Rod Hower via EV]

 David,You did see the post that my 2014 Volt has a 16.5 kWh pack and has 10.4 
usable?  They did this for a reason and it was not to overcharge or undercharge 
the battery pack to provide maximum life.  There is one person on the Facebook 
Volt group that had over 400k miles and close to original 10.4 kWh usable.  I 
keep mine plugged in all the time because it keeps the batteries at optimum 
temperature.  The Volt was an awesome design that kept the battery pack 
pampered.  I can't say the same for my 3 Honda Gen1 insights that killed their 
packs due to poor engineering design.  Honda was never interested in EV's 
anyhow!  I can still drive my 2000 Insight on gas only without the hybrid 
assist and it gets 55 mpg, but it drives much better with the assist and gets 
65 mpg!.  I've corrected this on one of the Honda hybrids by replacing a week 
'stick', that is 6 NiMh per stick, there are two rows of 7 and one row of 6 for 
a total of 20, so 20x6x1.2 nominal for 144V or 165V fully charged.  If you load 
test all 20 of the sticks you will find one or two that are weak and can 
replace them from various sources and get the vehicle running good.  This is 
fine for hobbyists that understand electronics, but not acceptable for normal 
drivers.  I bought my 2014 Volt December 2016 with 51k miles.  I've changed the 
oil twice and the tires once and I'm at 104k miles with the same electric range 
when I bought it.  The only time I use gas is when I drive to my daughters 66 
miles away to visit or more likely fix things at her house.  I test drove the 
Tesla Model 3 single and dual motor vehicles.  They are very impressive and 
much quicker than my Volt.  The drivability was no better than my Volt and I 
have plenty of power for all driving situations, so I was not sold on a very 
expensive upgrade.  If I was buying a new $40k vehicle I would probably go with 
the Tesla, but used Volt's are a much cheaper alternative, especially if you 
drive less than 25-40 miles electric you will not need to use gas. 
On Wednesday, February 3, 2021, 08:28:52 PM EST, Ed Blackmond via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 The only time these guess-o-meters are correct is when they read zero.  I’ve 
had three OEM electric cars.  The implementation of the guess-o-meter in the 
1998 Honda EVPlus was by far the best.  It consisted of a bar graph with two 
horizontal bars indicating the distance to empty in different conditions.  The 
horizontal scale of the graph was distance in miles.  The green bar was the 
distance if driven most efficiently.  The yellow bar was the distance under the 
current operating conditions.  Driving fast up hill with the heater blasting on 
a cold day would push the yellow bar towards the left much faster than the 
green bar.  Coming back down the hill, the yellow bar would catch up with the 
green bar. When the car was stopped, the yellow bar changed to some unknown 
average.  A quick glance at this graph provided all the information required.  
If the range needed was less then what the yellow bar indicated, but less than 
what the green bar indicated, then all that was required was to operate a 
little more efficiently and the destination would be within reach.  If the 
destination was farther than what the green bar indicated, a charging stop was 
going to be required before reaching the destination.

The best thing that can be said about the guess-o-meter in the 2011 Nissan Leaf 
is that it is inaccurate.  It consists of a number indicating the distance 
remaining in miles.  It is based on some unknown algorithm that seems to have 
no relation to reality.  It also has a state of charge gauge with twelve 
segments indicating the charge remaining.  Unfortunately, each segment does not 
represent the same amount of charge.  Over time it is possible to get a feel 
for the amount of charge each segment represents, but figuring this out and 
applying the knowledge at each observation of the gauge was more work than 
appropriate for an instrument that is intended for use in a moving automobile.

The guess-o-meter in the Chevy Bolt is a combination of the instrumentation of 
the Honda EVPlus and the Nissan Leaf.  It consists of three numbers: at the top 
is a theoretical maximum distance analogous to the Honda’s green bar.  In the 
middle is a number indicating the distance based on some unknown algorithm 
which seems to take into account operating history and current operating 
conditions.  At the bottom is a theoretical minimum distance. I do not 
understand why this number is anything but zero.  If the car is powered on 
while sitting in a parking lot, the battery will eventually fully discharge 
without driving a single mile.  The Chevy bolt also has a state of charge gauge 
that seems to be consistent and much more accurate than the corresponding gauge 
in the Nissan Leaf.

The Chevy Bolt also has a very nice feature referred to as trend bars.  These 
give an indication of the current operating conditions.  If the car is 

Re: [EVDL] Pandemic Cell Fade

[Rod Hower via EV]

 I have a 2014 Volt which has much less range (smaller battery pack 16.5 kWh of 
which 10.8 is used, 2017 has a 18.4 kWh pack).  I have a 21 mile commute to 
work and get notifications from Chargepoint about how much energy was used.  
Typically in the summer I'll put 6.2 to 7.2 kWh back in.  During the winter, 
especially on cold days it puts in 10.4 to 11.4 kWh.  So my typical range is 42 
miles in the summer and 25 miles in the winter. The guessometer also bases the 
range on usage and short trips to the mail box will throw it off.
On Wednesday, February 3, 2021, 03:42:37 PM EST, via EV  
wrote:  
 
 Yes, wait until normal driving returns and it should recover.  The mileage
estimate is also due to the short cycling and parasitic loads.

On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 12:39 PM Bill Dennis via EV 
wrote:

> I'll try a few more charging cycles.  Right now, whenever I take it out,
> it's doing its mandatory running of the ICE engine, so the charge hasn't
> gone down yet.
>
> Bill
>
> -Original Message-
> From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Steves via EV
> Sent: Wednesday, February 3, 2021 1:30 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Cc: Steves
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Pandemic Cell Fade
>
> One possibility is that the mileage varies with temperature . I typically
> show 60 miles in summer and 40 in winter ( northern VA).
>
> Also I think it projects mileage based on recent usage. So the trips to
> and from mailbox may be poor mileage trips.
>
> Does it show 40 miles after several more chargings?
>
> -Steve
>
> > On Feb 3, 2021, at 2:55 PM, Bill Dennis via EV 
> wrote:
> >
> > She leaves the car plugged in all the time, even after it's fully
> charged.
> > She uses 110V charging.
> >
> > Bill
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Peri Hartman
> via EV
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 3, 2021 12:32 PM
> > To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> > Cc: Peri Hartman
> > Subject: Re: [EVDL] Pandemic Cell Fade
> >
> > What does the Volt charger do at full charge and the cable stays plugged
> > in ? Does it periodically recharge as parasitic uses discharge the
> > battery ? What is her charging pattern and what was it before the
> > pandemic ? It could be that, after one year, constant recharging to 100%
> > damaged the cells. What Just pure speculation.
> >
> > Peri
> >
> > << Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>
> >
> > -- Original Message --
> > From: "Glenn Brooks via EV" 
> > To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
> > Cc: "Glenn Brooks" 
> > Sent: 03-Feb-21 11:26:39 AM
> > Subject: Re: [EVDL] Pandemic Cell Fade
> >
> >> One of the Battery cells going bad, maybe.
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPad
> >>
> >>> On Feb 3, 2021, at 11:14 AM, Bill Dennis via EV 
> > wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Pre-pandemic, when my mother-in-law charged her 2017 Chevy Volt, it
> > would
> >>> have about 60 miles electric range.  Throughout the pandemic, she's
> done
> >>> nothing with the car except drive it to the top of the driveway and
> back
> > to
> >>> check the mail.  When we were finally able to get to Georgia to visit
> > her
> >>> this week after fifteen months, I notice that a full charge shows only
> > 40
> >>> miles range now.  Anyone ever notice anything similar, or have any
> guess
> >>> why?
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>>
> >>> Bill
> >>>
> >>> ___
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Re: [EVDL] Bruce's new home

[Rod Hower via EV]

 Regarding QuantumScape, interesting article by the leading design engineer of 
the Roadster battery 
pack.https://silanano.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/The-Future-of-Energy-Storage.pdf

 
This ex Tesla battery pack guru ,Gene Berdichevsky, says solidstate batteries 
are a pipe dream. 

 Gene Berdichevsky is the Co-Founder & CEO of SilaNanotechnologies. Prior to 
co-founding Sila,

Gene was the seventh employee at Tesla Motors where heserved as Principal 
Engineer on the Roadster

battery,leading the development of the world’s first, safe, mass-produced, 
automotiveLi-ion battery system.

 

Page20 of his white paper talks about solid state batteries…

https://silanano.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/The-Future-of-Energy-Storage.pdf

 

On Tuesday, January 19, 2021, 02:14:49 PM EST, Mr. Sharkey via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 Best of luck to Bruce in his new enterprise. Apparently, he considers 
that the tag EVLN is personal property, which was the reason for his 
departure here.

Back in 2016, Bruce decided to "spend a whole day" writing up an 
archive of some of the pages from my now defunct web site. I wrote 
him a very polite message asking that he include something 
attributing the information contained in the page to me, as I 
considered it to be my own intellectual property.

His reaction was unexpectedly vitriolic, telling me "Since you have 
some issues, I decided to start out fresh, deleting all references to 
you, your page, and anything else"

All I had asked was to be acknowledged as the author of the information.

Interesting how some things run in circles.

As for DIY  EV, it's a busy place, but it's also maintained as a 
profit making venture, with lots of adverts, analytics, javascript, 
etc. You can't search it without being signed up. Haven't spent much 
time there for years.

EVDL may be slowing down, but it's still useful to me.


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Son of Supermodel, Billionaire Dead at 24
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/6007092e9167c92640c1st04vuc3
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Leaf EV price drops> make the switch

[Rod Hower via EV]

 I bought a 2014 Volt December 2016 off lease.  It only had 60 MPGe lifetime 
equivalent since the previous owner put on lots of mileage which was at 51k 
when I bought it.  I'm now up to 118 MPGE and most of my driving is all 
electric, especially since the pandemic and I have very few gas miles, most of 
those are trips to my daughters house 66 miles each way.  I'm now at 103,000 
miles and have changed the oil twice and installed new tires once.  I have 
52,000 trouble free miles and I'm very happy with the Volt!
On Saturday, December 26, 2020, 03:24:36 PM EST, Peter VanDerWal via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 The big difference is:  Gm and Toyota refused to sell their EVs early on, but 
neither of them refused to honor warranties for batteries.

Yeah GM killed the EV1, but I think the Volt and the Bolt make up for that.

December 22, 2020 5:11 PM, "Lee Hart via EV"  wrote:

> Peter VanDerWal via EV wrote:
> 
>>> Considering Nissans track record of refusing to honor battery
>>> warranties, I don't think I'll ever buy a Nissan, no matter how cheap
>>> they make it.
> 
> Willie via EV wrote:
>> I have been surprised that Nissan has been able to survive with such
>> customer treatment.  But, there are many here willing to overlook it.
> 
> Sadly, I think *all* the big automakers have done similar things. GM
> killed the EV1, Toyota killed the RAV4-EV, etc. Every time an automaker
> gets itself in an unpleasant situation, it "sweeps it under the rug" and
> moves on...
> 
> Somehow, their loyal customers quickly forget, and keep right on buying
> their cars.
> 
> Lee Hart
> --
> Ring the bells that still can ring
> Forget your perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in.
> -- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
> --
> Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
> 
> --
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> 
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Re: [EVDL] Beefing up a chinese DC motor controller

[Rod Hower via EV]

 Take a picture of the MOSFET, is it TO-220?If you can't find the exact part 
your better off replacing the two on the board with 3 new ones so they are 
matched.I probably have better 63V electrolytics at work that are a good match. 
 Measure the spacing on the radial leads and let me know.  If I have the parts 
I'll send them free, Merry Christmas!  You can send the pictures and info off 
list, rodhower at ameritech dot net
On Sunday, December 13, 2020, 03:41:17 AM EST, David Chapman via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 Opened up a brand new 36V 500 watt brushed DC motor controller that just 
arrived to fix a loose wire and while re-soldering it I noticed that it had two 
470uf 50V low esr polarized JWCO brand caps. Appear to my uneducated eye to be 
aluminum radial electrolytics (11mm by 25mm green tube) seems like the cap 
voltage is kinda low considering its a 36V unit and was thinking of replacing 
them with something bigger / better quality. Any advice on what type of cap / 
brand to use? The way the pcb is done I can only handle a 13mm diameter with 
25-30 mm vertical. Seems like 680uf 63v @ 13mm x 25 - 30 mm is about the 
biggest ones I am finding that will physically fit the pcb and enclosure. Also 
the pcb has a place for a 3rd mosfet ( 2 existing ones marked SC 068R5NT EWOCKW 
on 3 lines). Is this enough improvement to warrant the cost of the caps and the 
mosfet? It is a $35 chinese controller and I probably got what I paid for (cold 
solder joint on a main power wire ). Heavily in its favor is it ha
 s the exact physical measurements I need for my project and difficult to 
change later and would hate to have to find a better quality more expensive 
unit and wait weeks for delivery. Trying to get this project done for Christmas 
present. 

By the way I am not finding much luck finding / crossing this mosfet. Googling 
on "068R5NT" I get mosfets of various #s and when I include the "EWOCKW" that 
is printed below the number on the body all that comes back is links to stuffed 
Star Wars toy sites. I think they are "SC" brand? Any help / advice would be 
greatly appreciated. Dach.

"Do what you can, with what you have, where you are" - Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: [EVDL] 18650 Li-Ion battery pack possible project

[Rod Hower via EV]

 I bought these on Amazon last year, but they are now sold on 
Ebay,https://www.ebay.com/itm/5000mAh-Li-ion-26650-Rechargeable-Battery-High-Drain-w-Charger-for-Flashlight/303600483209?hash=item46afffbb89:g:oUAAAOSwGypftkrD

Every battery I tested was over the 5000mAhr rating using 
this,https://www.amazon.com/Universal-Analyzer-Rechargeable-Batteries-BT-C3400/dp/B07T941JCF/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1=BT-C3400+Universal+Battery+Charger+Analyzer+Tester+for+Li-ion=1607368205=8-4

Most of the 18650 batteries I tested with the same analyzer were far below 
their rated Ahr (except for Panasonic).
On Monday, December 7, 2020, 02:47:18 AM EST, EVDL Administrator via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 I'm far from an expert on this, so I invite corrections to the following.

First, on DIYing lithium batteries.  I don't.  I don't have the equipment, 
or the skills, or the steady hands and good eyes that it takes.  And there 
is a LOT of power in those little cells.  Maybe you'd be fine with it,  I'm 
just saying - think about it.

In the few cases when I've used lithium batteries, I've bought them fully 
assembled and tested. Yep, it's expensive for good ones, but so is the 
deductible on my homeowner's insurance.

As for buying lithium batteries on Ebay, I'd suggest being really careful.  
I've read that a significant number of the cheap ones are made with recycled 
cells from old laptop batteries.

I've had good luck with Ping batteries, ordered directly from China at eye-
popping shipping costs, though not so much with their cheapo chargers.  But 
they're not high power batteries, so they might not work for your friend.

You might try cruising the ebike forums at endless-sphere.com.  I haven't 
been there in several years, but last time I was, they were well populated 
by need-for-speed people with glowing eyes like your neighbor has. :-)

In any case, best of luck with the project.

David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey

To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my 
offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt

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    and catastrophe.

                                        -- H G Wells
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Re: [EVDL] Question about charging BB600 NiCads

[Rod Hower via EV]

 

On Wednesday, November 25, 2020, 12:54:29 PM EST, Peter VanDerWal via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 I have some BB600 batteries that I bought years ago and never used so I'm 
thinking of using them for an off-grid EV charging station (more in a future 
post)
I used to have a copy of the maintenance manual for them, but I can't find it. 
Anyway, I have some notes that Saft recommended to use a constant current at 
their C/5 rate until they reach 1.6VPC (about 5 hours if fully discharged) and 
then reduce charge current to C/50, with no voltage limit, and continue for a 
time period equal to the bulk charging phase.
Since these batteries are rated at 34AH, that would be approx 6.8A during bulk 
charging and 0.68 for the finishing charge.

I've seen some old posts on here that say, to reduce water consuption, limit 
the voltage in the first stage to 1.4-1.45VPC and just measure current out/in 
and return 100% of the amp hours during bulk bulk/taper charging stage and then 
an additional 10% during the finishing charge.

Either way you return 110% of the amp hours discharged.

Since this is going to be a solar charger I can't guarantee constant 
voltage/current, so I'm thinking I'll just go with best effort, measure AH 
removed and return 100% AH during the bulk charging phase and then an 
additional 10% during the finish stage. I'll keep track of estimated SoC so if 
I can't return 110% on a given day I can make up for it later, perhaps do an 
addition 10% "equalization" charge periodically.

For those that have used Saft NiCads, does this sound like a good plan or do 
you have any suggestions for a better algorithm? 

Thanks, Pete.
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Re: [EVDL] Blink network still good

[Rod Hower via EV]

 I've been using ChargePoint for my Chevy Volt for the past 4 years at the Kent 
Central Parking garage in Ohio without any issues.  You have to pay $5 to get 
the activation card for your key-ring, but it's definitely more convenient than 
using the app on my phone.  I did have one event around March 30 this year when 
flames shot out behind the charge plug on my Volt (or as Bob Rice would say, "A 
short circus").  The Chevy dealer had my car for almost 2 months and I had to 
go back and forth with GM about who was going to pay for the replacement.  The 
charge plug was replaced about 2 years ago for a recall because cracks on the 
plastic around the connector pins on the charge port would get water in the 
crack and freeze.  I believe they screwed something up on the recall 
installation and I ended up having a short circuit as a result.GM ultimately 
paid for the repair.  I informed ChargePoint about event and they never 
responded.  I've been using the same charger since May without any issues. 
On Monday, November 16, 2020, 02:12:53 PM EST, Peter C. Thompson via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 Hi Cal,

First off, I'm biased - I work for ChargePoint.  So what I can say is, 
that before my current position, I worked for Qualcomm in San Diego.  
There were a TON of Blink chargers, and they were very rarely working.  
We used to joke about them "being on the blink, again".

I'd dig around some more and see what you can find.

Cheers, Peter

On 11/16/20 9:38 AM, Cal Frye via EV wrote:
> Hey, folks,
> Been a while since I had a couple moments to check in. Please forgive 
> me if this has been answered recently--my search turned up nothing 
> since 2017.
>
> We're looking to install a two-station charger at a non-profit org, 
> and Blink has some pretty good pricing. But there is little on their 
> network in our area, and news reports are, well, mixed. Would it be 
> advisable to go forward with Blink? Our likely alternatives are 
> SemaConnect or perhaps JuiceBar.
>
> Many thanks!
>
> Best regards,
> -- Cal Frye,
> /Be an Internet Sceptic/  Stop. Think. Connect.
> www.stopthinkconnect.org - Be at least as safe on the
> Internet as you are crossing the street!
>
> "A closed mind is like a closed book, just a block of wood. --Chinese 
> proverb.
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Re: [EVDL] Ego batteries?

[Rod Hower via EV]

 Have you tried these batteries Lawrence?  They claim on their website that 
most of the batteries tested have 90% capacity.  What kind of reputation does 
batteryhookup have?  Not necessarily ratings from a Google search but things 
you've heard on EV sites NEV, etc.
On Saturday, October 24, 2020, 11:35:18 PM EDT, Lawrence Rhodes via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 These batteries maybe just the thing for a drop in solution for eGo scooters 
or other projects mimicking lead acid. That is use your original charger. 
Lawrence Rhodes  
https://batteryhookup.com/products/lithiumpower-12-8v-32ah-410wh-lifepo4-module-w-bms?rfsn=1727885.2bd9ce


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Re: [EVDL] Miles consumed for altitude

[Rod Hower via EV]

 I think this article does a good job describing the 
efficiency,https://electrek.co/2018/04/24/regenerative-braking-how-it-works/


On Wednesday, October 14, 2020, 07:41:05 AM EDT, EVDL Administrator via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 On 14 Oct 2020 at 6:09, Jay Summet via EV wrote:

> Regeneration is only about 20% efficient. 

So they say - at least here on the EVDL.  I've read similar declarations for 
decades. But those statements aren't in accord with the data in the link I 
provided.

http://evdl.org/pages/evergreen.html

"Range is not significantly affected by mountain driving. Essentially the 
entire potential energy difference can be recovered by regenerative braking 
and by coasting when possible.  Nonetheless for optimal range, the 
mountainous portion of a long journey should not be at or near the journey's 
end."

I have a lot of respect for Axel Krause.  So, with all due respect, I'd like 
to see some documentation for that 20% figure, if you don't mind.

David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey

To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my 
offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
    "My country, right or wrong" is a thing that no patriot would 
    think of saying except in a desperate case. It's like saying 
    "My mother, drunk or sober."

                                                -- GK Chesterton
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 

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[EVDL] New study reaffirms carbon emissions of EV's are lower with multiple studies cited

[Rod Hower via EV]

Charged EVs | New study reaffirms carbon emissions of EVs lower than ICEs, 
lists flaws in long-tailpipe arguments



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Re: [EVDL] Zilla 1141 error - 15mV drop across contactor at 100A

[Rod Hower via EV]

 I would recommend a twisted wire pair from the Battery+ and Controller+ 
connections back to the input of the hairball to reduce the possibility of 
noise induced on the wires.  Also follow the guidelines in the Zilla 
manual,"The Zilla controller requires special attention to electrical noise 
issues. This is because the unusuallyhigh currents of which they are capable 
switching at very fast rates cause electrical noise.Signal wires should not be 
run near the high power cables due to the likelihood of interference. 
Aseparation of at least one foot between power and signal wires is customary. 
Alternatively, the powerwires can be run in shielded enclosures or wraps.Power 
wires are those which run between batteries, from the battery to the 
controller, and from thecontroller to the motor.Signal wires include all other 
wiring, but especially sensitive are the pot wiring, motor speed sensorwiring 
and serial communication wires.In order to further reduce noise emissions, 
power wires of a given circuit should be run together in closeproximity. For 
example: The wires to the motor from the controller should all be close to each 
other andsecured together with wire ties. The same goes for the battery 
connections. Anytime power wirescarrying the same current in opposite 
directions are not in close proximity, they form a loop. A loop isvery much 
like an antenna and it transmits unwanted electrical noise.Signal wires should 
also be run in sets. It is best to keep all the wires for a given circuit in a 
tight bundle.The wiring to and from a device, such as a contactor or sensor, 
should always be tight. "Also,"The Hairball has internal contactor drivers 
which require snubber diodes on the contactor coils in order toabsorb the 
inductive kick produced by the contactor coil when it turns off. Please note 
these may not beshown in the wiring diagrams.The diodes which come with the 
Hairball package have no polarity, they can be connected in eitherdirection 
across the coil connection on the contactors. These diodes have a 24V threshold 
so they arecompatible with the fast turn off required for Kilovac contactors as 
well. "
On Sunday, September 6, 2020, 11:06:57 PM EDT, Matt via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 Hi All,

I thought I would post a bit of an update

I tried a brand new hairball that I borrowed from a friend – the new hairball 
also reported errors 1141 and 1124 when I tried to accelerate in any gear.

I had fused both contactor sense connections to the hairball, resulting in 
longer wires running between the contactor terminals and the hairball
Connecting the hairball directly to the contactor with as short a wire as 
possible resolved the issue, which suggests it may have been a matter of 
induced noise in the measurement, of too short a duration for my DMM to have 
picked up.
The noise issue likely hasn’t been sorted out, just that it is no low enough 
that the hairball doesn’t fault

Matt

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Jukka Järvinen
Sent: Thursday, 3 September 2020 7:04 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Cc: Matt
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Zilla 1141 error - 15mV drop across contactor at 100A

High power demand under acceleration could indicate current leaking to the 
motor hull and messing up the car chassis ground (?)  Brush dust issues have 
kept me troubled too many times with weird problems.
-Jukka

to 3. syysk. 2020 klo 13.01 Matt via EV (ev@lists.evdl.org) kirjoitti:
Hi Brains Trust,

I have a Z1k LV.
My hairball gives me errors 1141 and 1124 when I try to accelerate in any gear 
(worst in 5th, and least bad in 1st)

The manual tells me 1141 is contactor high resistance. my DMM measuring the 
voltage across the battery and controller inputs to the hairball puts the 
voltage drop at 15mV for 100A (battery amps that is). Which looks about right 
for a  good contactor

The contactor always drops out when I turn the ignition off, and my DMM 
measures 92v across the contactor (measured at the hairball terminals). My 
conversion is 96v nominal (actual battery voltage is 102v, though the little 
white light on the hairball must act as a voltage divider, dropping 10v)

I opened the hairball, and it looks clean inside - nothing looks damaged 
visually.

Any ideas on what to check next?
Is it possible to see what the hairball is measuring as the voltage drop across 
the contactor?

thanks in advance,
Matt

Sent from Mail for Windows 10



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Re: [EVDL] Duosida Charge handle frustration

[Rod Hower via EV]

 I had a short circus event on my 2014 Chevy Volt while plugging in the 
Chargepoint plug about 3 weeks ago.  It literally shot plasma out the space 
between the hood/fender and door fender.  GM corporate go involved and said 
they would not cover it since the car did not catch on fire!  So I told them my 
plan was to sue them since an event like this should not have happened.  The EV 
technician from the local dealership called about 20 minutes after I talked to 
GM and told me they didn't plan to cover it, but GM's technicians would now get 
involved and determine if it's a warranty issue.  The charge plug was replaced 
the previous year under warranty/recall, so I'm wondering if they screwed 
something up at that time.Regarding this thread, the Chargpoint J1772 is more 
difficult to plug in than my Chinese charger J1772 I use at home.  They're 
about the same age (3 years) and I'm the only one that uses that Chargepoint at 
the downtown Kent Central Parking Garage in Ohio.
On Tuesday, April 14, 2020, 10:01:59 PM EDT, Robert Bruninga via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 The Duosida charge cord handle is very frustrating  It takes lots of
wiggling to get it in and out of my Volt.  I tried a dremmel tool and it is
still too tight.

What is the problem?  Is it the diameter of the plastic around the pins? or
the outer diameter of the inner surround, or the inner surface of the outer
ring?

Bob
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[EVDL] Ohio EV tax reduction

[Rod Hower via EV]

Ohio is one of several US states that impose taxes on EVs that are far higher 
than the amount paid in gas taxes by a typical driver of a legacy vehicle. A 
recently introduced bill aims to change that.

Ohio’s current EV tax, which was enacted in 2019, imposes anannual fee of $200 
on electric drivers. The new bill (HB546) would reduce the feeto $100 for EVs 
and $50 for PHEVs.

According to a recent analysis from ConsumerReports, Ohio’s existing EV tax is 
considerably higher than the annual gastax for a typical new gas-burning car.

Ohio’s punitive fee is particularly ironic considering thatthe state is 
counting on a growing EV industry to replace jobs lost when amajor GM plant in 
Lordstownclosed in 2019.

“The tax is terrible policy in a state like Ohio, which is looking to EV 
manufacturing and associated battery and auto supply industries to create the 
skilled, middle-class jobs that our state sorely needs,” wrote the NRDC’s Mark 
Nabong. “Our focus ought to be on how we can help Ohio startups like Workhorse 
Trucks and Lordstown Motors become the next Tesla and to ensure that our state 
is the kind of place that companies like GM, BASF and Dana want to grow their 
EV businesses.”



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Re: [EVDL] Converting G-16 Amusement Train to Electric?

[Rod Hower via EV]

 Shawn Lawless probably already has a system available that would work,Parade 
Floats


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Parade Floats


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On Sunday, March 29, 2020, 09:05:03 AM EDT, mark hanson via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 Hi Folks,

 

The Roanoke Zoo (Mill Mountain ZooChoo) kiddy train (G-16, 16" wide track)
has been inoperable for a few years and the 100hp Wisconsin VH4D 4-cyl
tractor engine (about 1970').  They would like me to fix it, don't seem to
know why it was abandoned.  I think the engine is seized and the gasoline -
varnish.  It has 3 cars and goes about 1000' back & forth.  Has anyone
converted a mini-train, runs about 6mph for 8 hours?  

 

Maybe a 8 or 9" Advance DC motor and control?  Lithium LiFePO4 is nice (with
the attracted complexities of balancing/monitoring) but would ye-old cheaper
Lead work in this application (maybe not run time).

 

Original company:

https://amusementparkives.com/2017/01/31/miniature-train-company/ 

 

Restored mini train, better color photos, enthusiasts:

https://heritagerail.org/2018/10/remembering-the-miniature-train-company/  

 

Have a renewable energy day,

 

Mark

 

Mark E. Hanson

184 Vista Lane

Fincastle, VA 24090

540-473-1248 phone & FAX, 540-816-0812 cell

REEVA: community service RE & EV project club

Website: www.REEVAdiy.org (See Project Gallery)

UL Certified PV Installer

My RE Circuits: www.EVDL.org/lib/mh 

REEVA Demo:   http://youtu.be/4kqWn2H-rA0 

 
 Fincastle Solar Weather Station

 

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Re: [EVDL] Riding mowers

[Rod Hower via EV]

 Did you get the Cub Cadet CC30e 56V Li Ion 30Ah Electric Riding Mower?Let us 
know how that works out!
On Thursday, March 26, 2020, 05:05:25 PM EDT, Willie via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 

On 3/26/20 2:48 PM, Jay Summet via EV wrote:
> Ryobi and Craftsman both have electric riding mowers in the 2-4k range.

> 
> However, I believe they use lead acid batteries. They probably work fine 
> for lawn applications or a year or two, and could be swapped out for 
> Lithium packs with a new charger after they die.

I haven't recently seen a new lead mower offered.  That's why I omitted 
the "lithium" specification.  I make every effort to avoid buying any 
lead batteries.

This morning, I went ahead and ordered the mentioned Cub Cadet from 
Tractor Supply, one of my preferred vendors.  I avoid Home Depot.  Just 
over $3k with delivery and tax.

> 
> I have a local search going on my craigslist feed now as they are just 
> now starting to appear on the used market.
> 
> Jay
> 
> On 3/25/20 3:35 PM, Willie via EV wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 3/25/20 1:45 PM, Rod Hower via EV wrote:
>>>   Perhaps these guys,Home - MEAN GREEN MOWERS
>>
>> Yes, thanks.  That was the high end mower I looked at a few years ago 
>> with the "proprietary" battery/cells.  At that time, they were unknown 
>> I was, and remain, HIGHLY suspicious of "proprietary" batteries and 
>> cells.  And such secrecy.
>>
>> https://meangreenproducts.com/
>>
>> They have an irritating website.  But doesn't everyone nowdays.
>>
>> More models now than then.  As low as about $16k.  Judging by 
>> incremental cost, their batteries remain VERY expensive.
>>
>> Having been burned by a ~$20k Kubota, I think I will continue to shop 
>> for consumer grade stuff in the $2k-$4k range.
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>>
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Re: [EVDL] Riding mowers

[Rod Hower via EV]

 Perhaps these guys,Home - MEAN GREEN MOWERS

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Home - MEAN GREEN MOWERS

At Mean Green we’re solving each of those problems with some of the most 
efficient electric mowers made right he...
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Supplies this program,Commercial Lawn and Garden Equipment

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Commercial Lawn and Garden Equipment

COMMERCIAL ELECTRIC LAWN AND GARDEN EQUIPMENT INCENTIVE AND EXCHANGE PROGRAM IN 
ENVIRONMENTAL JUSTICE AREAS Comm...
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On Wednesday, March 25, 2020, 02:41:55 PM EDT, EVDL Administrator via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 On 25 Mar 2020 at 13:04, Willie via EV wrote:

> I want to mow, not fiddle.

I understand your wanting new, but the ER8-36 type dedicated GE riding 
mowers from 40 years ago are simple and reliable, more reliable than the 
more complex GE Elec-tracs.  They were also sold under at least a couple of 
other brands, John Deere and New Idea.  If all you need to do is mow, 
they're good, and highly maneuverable. 

https://myelec-traks.com/ER8-36.html 

They use three 12v marine batteries. They have no controller, no electronics 
at all - just an on-off switch, a deck switch, a simple clutch, and a multi-
speed transmission.  The charger is a timer, transformer, and push-pull 
rectifier.  They're essentially just a gas rider of the era with a motor in 
place of the vertical-shaft gas engine, and 2 more motors to drive the 
blades. 

Any decent local auto electric shop can work on the motors when they finally 
start to get worn, if you don't want to.  Jim Coate's Electric Tractor Store 
sells spare mower blades.

Mine (the New Idea variant) has been great.  I recommend them.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: [EVDL] Bi-stable e-brake design extends EV's range

[Rod Hower via EV]

 Not sure how this can save much energy if you have regen.  My 2014 Chevy Volt 
has 95,000 miles and the brake pads are like new.  The only time I use the 
brakes is at the very end of stopping and holding the vehicle at a traffic 
light so it doesn't creep forward.
On Wednesday, March 4, 2020, 01:31:49 AM EST, evln via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 

https://thebrakereport.com/warner-electrics-brake-design-extends-ev-range/
Warner Electric’s Brake Design Extends EV Range
March 2, 2020  IVT

[image  
https://thebrakereport.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Screenshot-2020-02-27-at-17.14.40-702x459-1.png
Warner Electric’s new brake design extends EV range  / IVT
]

KINGSTON, Mass. – Warner Electric, a leading brand of Altra Industrial
Motion Corp., has developed a new electromagnetic brake that greatly reduces
power consumption during operation.

The SSPB pulse brake is highly efficient and well suited to electric vehicle
applications – increasing range while controlling soft stops proficiently.

Power saving is an important consideration in most applications, but none
more so than the electric vehicle market. OEMs are battling to maximize the
effective range of electric vehicles to gain an operational and market
advantage. Increasing efficiency and reducing visits to the charge point are
of paramount importance.

The longer the range, the more productive, practical and cost-effective the
vehicle becomes. With finite battery power to work with, focus is now
turning to reducing the power consumption of auxiliary vehicle systems to
further improve vehicle range.

Warner Electric has leveraged its extensive experience as a global
electromagnetic brake OEM to deliver an efficient braking solution to meet
these requirements. The SSPB is designed to preserve battery life via its
reduced power consumption. This Bi-stable brake relies on pulses of current
to operate the brake, offering a distinct advantage over other devices.

Usually, electromagnetic brakes require a constant power supply to be held
open, therefore the brake is consuming energy whenever it isn’t controlling
a stop. The SSPB brake reduces this energy consumption by relying on a
single, short pulse of current to open or close, eliminating the need for a
constant power supply. One pulse will be sent to close the brake and come to
a stop, another to open them and start moving.

As a result of this efficiency, the vehicle’s finite amount of stored energy
can be used for other functions. This can serve to greatly increase range,
improving the viability of electric vehicles in many new industries or
environments. The power saving features benefit both pure electric vehicles
and hybrid-electric systems.
[© thebrakereport.com]
...
https://www.ivtinternational.com/news/hybrid-electric-vehicles/breakthrough-brake-design-extends-electric-vehicle-range.html
Breakthrough brake design extends electric vehicle range
27th February 2020  ...


+
https://www.yourmoney.com/household-bills/electric-vehicle-charge-points-at-supermarkets-double-in-two-years/
Electric vehicle charge points at supermarkets double in two years
02/03/2020  The number of electric vehicle charge points at supermarkets has
doubled in the ... Waitrose has 49 out of 349 stores with EV charge points,
representing 14%.
https://www.yourmoney.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2020/03/Supermarket-EV-charge-points.png




For EVLN EV-newswire posts view:
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Re: [EVDL] Daily EV miles of a plugin Hybrid

[Rod Hower via EV]

 I have a 21 mile commute to work.  On the coldest days I barely make it to 
work in my 2014 Volt with the heat cranked up all the way.  I drive for comfort 
and don't drive conservative.  I pay .10/kWhr at work and 0.13/kWhr at home.  
The only time I use gas is when I don't commute to work and have to take a 
trip.  On the weekends I often drive more than the Volt range but usually stop 
at home and plug in, so I can top off and drive more electric miles.  Regarding 
charge stations I only use the one in the parking deck at work in Kent, OH 
which is only 0.1/kWhr, cheaper than my house.  I have 240V for home charging 
but can always plug into a 120V outlet.  A retired teacher in my neighborhood 
also has a 2014 Volt.  She only plugs into 120V in the garage, but doesn't 
drive much, so it's still mostly EV.  I think for the majority of drivers that 
don't have a long commute, 120V at the house or garage is fine, so there are 
millions of charge stations already installed.
On Monday, December 16, 2019, 04:29:00 PM EST, Al Lumas via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 If the gasoline in your tank contains ethanol and you use none of it 
for several months you may have to replace it with fresh gasoline.
Al

At 08:32 AM 12/16/2019, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote:
>I just realized that I have been selling Plugin-hybrids short.  For example
>I say the PriusPrime has about "30 miles daily electric miles and
>600 miles on gas."
>
>But I should be saying 30 to 60 electric miles, or even 30 to 90 electric
>miles. Because one could do 30 miles of errands in the morning, come home
>(or pluging at work) using a modest 3.3 kW charge, and in 3 hours, get
>another 30 electric miles for the afternoon, and come home in the afternoon
>and another 3 hour charge and have another 30  electric miles during the
>evening.
>
>Note, I carefully do not use the term" range" as it could be confusing.  I
>am talking about the number of typical "daily electric miles".
>
>Its an important way to look at "daily electric miles."
>
>Bob
  

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Re: [EVDL] Rear Diff IRS | Direct Drive

[Rod Hower via EV]

 “The diameter divides into the circumference, you know. It ought to be three 
times. You'd think so, wouldn't you? But does it? No. Three point one four one 
and lots of other figures. There's no end to the buggers. Do you know how 
pissed off that makes me?"
"I expect it makes you extremely pissed off," said Teppic politely.
"Right. It tells me that the Creator used the wrong kind of circles. It's not 
even a proper number! I mean, three point five, you could respect. Or three 
point three. That'd look *right*." He stared morosely at the pie.” 



On Tuesday, November 26, 2019, 07:41:20 PM EST, forrest.whitmore via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 Hi David,

Thank you for the reply and the welcome! I can't believe I've been missing
out on EVDL for this long - it's a great resource! This helps understand the
relationship a bit better.



Hi Alan,

Thank you for the response - I appreciate the detail. My next step, as you
mentioned, is to find the best setup for acceleration and speed. I most
likely will use the motor with a 30% safety-margin from its max of 1 RPM
= 7000 RPM.

If I understand correctly, gearing the diff and/or transmission to a higher
RPM (within set safety-margin) allows for less required amps along with less
heat? Initially, I was under the impression that a lower motor RPM
corresponded to a "cooler" motor.



Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list wrote
> Forrest,
> 
> A 28.7" tall tire has a circumference of PI * 28.7 or 3.17*28.7 or 90.98"
> or 7.58 feet.
> 3,000 motor rpm *1 drive shaft revolution / 3.27 rear axle revolutions =
> 917.43 rpm
> 917.43 rpm * 7.58 feet circumference of tire = 6,954 feet / minute * 1
> mile
> / 5,280 feet = 1.317 miles / minute
> * 60 minutes / hour = 79.02 miles per hour.
> 
> At 3,000 rpm, with no transmission, or the transmission in high gear (1:1
> ratio) the 3.27 rear end will spin at 917.43 rpm making a 28.7" tall tire
> run 79.02 miles per hour.
> 
> To get the most acceleration and usable speed from the setup, you should
> find the maximum safe rpm of the motor, and gear the vehicle just under
> that rpm by a safe margin, at a maximum speed that you will not exceed.
> Some conversions use second or third gear to get the motor rpm's up. You
> could use a shorter tire. One drag racer went to a smaller diameter DC
> motor that could spin faster, and then used two motors.
> 
> I hope this helps,
> 
> Alan



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Re: [EVDL] Electric motor breakthrough

[Rod Hower via EV]

 Just wondering how they connect the stator with that setup?  Am I missing 
something?  Seems like the diagrams have permanent magnets around the entire 
stator, how is it attached?
On Thursday, August 15, 2019, 09:19:41 PM EDT, Alan Arrison via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 Have you guys seen this? They are making some "too good to be true" claims.

Their slick website is pretty convincing. Like most of the 
"breakthrough" technologies, there must be a downside.

What say the motor gurus?

https://www.linearlabsinc.com

Al

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[EVDL] Plugshare survey

[Rod Hower via EV]

Just wondered if anybody else received this email?surv...@plugshare.com
We'd like to invite you to participate in an exclusive research program that 
will use your opinions and experiences to improve tomorrow's electric vehicles. 
 The program is called PlugInsights and it's brought to you by your friends at 
PlugShare.
 
 Why you?  Because you're part of the early-adopters with the vision to see the 
electric future.  But there's still a long way to go: last year only 2.1% of 
vehicles sold in the US were electric.  Our mission is to amplify the voice of 
anyone who drives -- or is considering driving -- a plug-in vehicle.  We then 
bring your opinions and experiences to the places they're needed most: the ears 
of automakers, power utilities, regulators, and the rest of the plug-in vehicle 
industry.
 
 Here's how it works: from time to time, we'll send you short, interesting 
surveys on different topics of importance to the EV community.  The insights we 
collect will end up in important research papers, at industry conferences, and 
on the desks of key decision-makers all over the world.
 
 So won't you add your voice?
 
 Click below to get started with a short, 5-minute survey!
 
Follow this link to the Survey: 
 Take the Survey
 
Or copy and paste the URL below into your internet browser:
 
https://pluginsights.ca1.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_5aHrVnY1rQhYlaB?Q_DL=8pJaoK6X5iYbYwZ_5aHrVnY1rQhYlaB_CGC_088o0WFybTnpNmR_CHL=email

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Re: [EVDL] sumitomotire.com energy generating tires> frictional charging

[Rod Hower via EV]

 We should not confuse the original post with generator in a wheel folks, I 
dealt with those people in the early 90s when I worked at GE on electric 
vehicles.  The article talks about enough power for a Tire Monitoring Pressure 
System, which requires milliAmps to power the sensor to send signals to the 
vehicles computer via Bluetooth, so it's not actually powering a vehicle, just 
a sensor

On Tuesday, July 30, 2019, 8:26:25 PM EDT, Gail Lucas via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 David, many years ago we often had people come to our EAA meetings with 
these suggestions. Engineers in attendance would tell them such things 
defy the laws of physics. One 'inventor' responded that the laws of 
physics would be changing, so perhaps that has happened. :)

Gail

On 7/30/2019 4:44 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:
> On 30 Jul 2019 at 16:59, brucedp5 via EV wrote:
> 
>> a means of charging an electric carTMs battery by transforming the heat
>> generated from flexing as the tyre rolls into electrical energy.
> 
> Wouldn't it be easier to just link a generator to the wheel?
> 
> Or how about a propeller that spins in the wind as the car rolls down the
> road?
> 
> :-(
> 
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
> 
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Re: [EVDL] EV Charging Signs - Pro EV outreach

[Rod Hower via EV]

 I bought this one on Amazon and received it on Sunday.  Well made (aluminum) 
and looks 
great!https://www.amazon.com/Electric-Vehicle-Parking-SmartSign-Reflective/dp/B00HK9UM52

On Monday, July 29, 2019, 11:49:07 AM EDT, Josh L via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 On Sat, 27 Jul 2019 13:30:00 -0500, Willie via EV
 you wrote:

>
>
>On 7/27/19 11:29 AM, Josh L via EV wrote:
>> I'm having some trouble setting up my email reader to catch all
>> the messages from the group in a coherent way, but it sounds
>> like the signs are not for sale, but if we put our minds to it,
>> we can have our own made, such as with Bob's wording and ideas.
>> I'll probably then proceed to do that, when time permits.
>
>If you can get the price down to ~$10, I'd be in for 20-30.  8"x12" or 
>larger; weather resistant on ~1/16" aluminum.

correction - Hi, the way I worded it, it sounded like I might do
this for a group, but if I do it, it will be just for myself.
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Re: [EVDL] EV Charging Signs - Pro EV outreach

[Rod Hower via EV]

 They have a bunch of signs on Amazon,
https://www.amazon.com/Electric-Vehicle-Charging-Reserved-Aluminum/dp/B076H9XRCL/ref=sr_1_7?keywords=electric%2Bvehicle%2Bcharging%2Bsign=1564169422=gateway=8-7
https://www.amazon.com/Electric-Vehicle-Charging-Station-Sign/dp/B005WZXXEI/ref=sr_1_8?keywords=electric%2Bvehicle%2Bcharging%2Bsign=1564169422=gateway=8-8
https://www.amazon.com/ComplianceSigns-Aluminum-Reflective-Alternative-English/dp/B00IRKN44E/ref=sr_1_10?keywords=electric%2Bvehicle%2Bcharging%2Bsign=1564169422=gateway=8-10
Or search for 'electric+vehicle+charging+sign'
On Friday, July 26, 2019, 02:14:53 PM EDT, Robert Bruninga via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 I just give the graphics to a local sign company, but have to buy about 25
at a time to get t he price down to about $15 each and to get a good
quality aluminum sign.  Any sign company can do it.  Feel free to use my
graphics on that page or my other pages:
http://aprs.org/EV-charging-signs.html
http://aprs.org/EV-charging-everywhere.html

If you don't want to foot the bill yourself, find a local environmental
group to invest in them.

I used to try to ask for $20 donation for each sign, but found that trying
to convince someone to pu t up a sign and then ask them to pay for it just
did nto work.  They think of It as any other sales pitch.  So now, I just
give them away.  Kinda my bobbie-appleseed mission in life.

The lastest version has a small white strip at the bottom where you can
use a sharpie and mark in local info such as "See Susan at front desk".
Drop contribution in bucket, etc...

Bob, Wb4APR


-Original Message-
From: Josh L 
Sent: Friday, July 26, 2019 12:39 PM
To: Robert Bruninga 
Cc: Electric Vehicle Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [EVDL] anything to "watch out for" with refurbished EVSE

Thanks, I think that would help in this area, but I can't seem to find a
place to buy those particular signs, which I do think capture the
polite/balanced approach I like.  If you or someone has a link to buy
those particular signs (simply: "Electric Vehicle Charging Outlet"), that
would be great.

Josh

On Thu, 25 Jul 2019 22:02:14 -0400, Robert Bruninga 
you wrote:

>We have inspired dozens of local EV CHarging Spots byt simply getting
>people to put up signs over outdoor outelts.  The value is not for the
>1% who might use it , but for the 99% who pass it every day and
>subliminally realize the EV charging is avaialble anywhere there is an
outlet.
>
>See: http://aprs.org/EV-charging-signs.html
>
>Bob
>
>On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 5:25 PM Josh L via EV  wrote:
>
>> Hi all:
>>
>> I've become involved with trying to donate some equipment or money or
>> generally make information available to locations near where I live
>> so we can jump-start public station deployment a bit.  I am near
>> Nogales, AZ, there is only one public J1772 plug in the county, and
>> that kind of sums up some of the motive.
>>
>> Question - here and there a used or refurbished station comes up for
>> sale, and I wondered if anyone had any thoughts or feedback on
>> anything to watch out for.  Is it usually just a matter of making
>> sure the plug and cable are in good condition (or
>> replaced) or there other things that usually go bad after awhile?
>>
>> Josh
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>>
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Re: [EVDL] BYD's(style.cn) inflated range ratings bite them in the arse

[Rod Hower via EV]

 Anybody that drives an EV, even a Volt that is a series hybrid realize the 
cold temperature limitations, especially if you like to keep it warm and cozy 
on cold days.  I get 46 miles EV on my 2014 Volt on the best days, 24 miles on 
the coldest nastiest days when I like to keep the car warm and toasty.  Not a 
problem for me since I commute 21 miles and plug in at work and I also plug in 
at home with 240V so I never use gas.  My best guess is this BYD range was 
estimated by sales and marketing while the engineers were cringing in the 
corner knowing it was complete BS, but the accounting department and upper 
management looking for higher returns on investment realized range needed to be 
increased to meet contracts with bus fleets that required the higher range, 
regardless of them actually needing them.  The good news is that the majority 
of bus manufactures see the writing on the wall and are planning for an all 
electric fleet knowing that will be demanded soon by many fleet orders.  The 
immediate future for bus transit is electric and most manufactures are already 
gearing up for that.  With the advancements in batteries, motors and controls, 
most fleet operators realize that electric is cheaper to maintain than diesel 
or natural gas.  The transitions will not happen overnight, been when the 
people paying for overall cost of fleet operation is much cheaper on electric 
they will switch, and it's coming soon < 5 years. 
On Tuesday, May 28, 2019, 10:34:59 PM EDT, brucedp5 via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 

https://electrek.co/2019/05/24/byd-indianapolis-electric-bus-range/
BYD installing wireless charging in Indianapolis to boost disappointing
range of its electric buses
May. 24th 2019  

[image  
https://i2.wp.com/electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2019/05/indygobydbus.jpg
 e-bus
]

Electric bus maker BYD has to install and pay for a wireless charging
infrastructure upgrade in Indianapolis after its buses experienced
“lower-than-expected distances on one charge” during testing.

Indianapolis Public Transportation Corporation IndyGo announced it reached
an agreement with BYD to get the new infrastructure. BYD will install
wireless charging hardware for the buses, in addition to three wireless
inductive charging pads along bus routes.

During testing, IndyGo realized low temperatures were causing a dramatic
dropoff in predicted range. Justin Stuehrenberg, IndyGo vice president of
capital projects and planning, said:

    “We anticipated that vehicle range would depend on temperature, but the
contract requires a 275-mile range at 0 degrees. Our team identified several
options to address the issue and worked closely with BYD to determine the
most feasible resolution. At the same time, we made it clear to the company
they must be accountable to our contract. Numerous test days this spring
resulted in range performance at and above the contractually required 275
miles on a single charge. To date, the best range of any one test was 307
miles on a single charge.”

Many of those tests didn’t approach the required 275 miles, usually ending
somewhere in the low 200-mile range, as the range report from IndyGo
reveals. On one frigid day, range was limited to 152 miles.

BYD’s buses will now periodically charge for 10-20 minutes at the three
wireless locations. IndyGo claims it can be done without interrupting
service, as drivers will take scheduled breaks with no passengers on board
during those times.

This isn’t the only time BYD’s buses have encountered range issues.
Albuquerque opted to “reject and return” 15 BYD electric buses last year.
The buses experienced range, braking, and electrical issues, the Albuquerque
Journal reported. Albuquerque then decided to order diesel buses.

Indianapolis is pushing forward with the wireless charging plan instead.
Stuehrenberg said a bus system in Washington state uses a similar wireless
system that works in any weather, according to an IndyStar report.

IndyGo’s Red Line is aiming to be the nation’s first battery-electric bus
rapid transit route, and it’s set to launch Sept. 1. IndyGo plans to operate
a 100 percent electric bus fleet by 2035.
Electrek’s Take

We’d like to stress that this sort of thing is not a problem for
all-electric buses, but it does seem to be a bit of a problem for BYD. The
Chinese manufacturer has sold many buses to other countries, as well — see
our Latin America electric bus update from earlier today.

We’re hoping the manufacturer can resolve its issues — not due to any sort
of allegiance to that particular company, but because we don’t need more
obstacles to widespread bus adoption, especially in the US. Any repeat of
Albuquerque would be a big setback.
[© electrek.co]




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{brucedp.neocities.org}

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Re: [EVDL] sad golf cart story

[Rod Hower via EV]

 If you have the pinout for the Molex? connector on the old control it should 
just be a conversion of cutting the wires from the Molex and adding spade 
terminals for the new control.  I'm guessing the signal wires are keyswitch, 
enable/startswitch and throttle/potentiometer speed control.  Make sure you 
label the power cables from the old control so they are not mixed up, like B+, 
B-, etc and the labels for the old and new match up before connecting.

On ‎Friday‎, ‎March‎ ‎29‎, ‎2019‎ ‎08‎:‎51‎:‎29‎ ‎PM‎ ‎EDT, Willie via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 I've had a 36v controller in stock for around a year and finally felt 
the need to install.  I find the new one is not a drop in replacement.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/szNSbHcgmnkjPGBh6

This is an EZGo, pre-TXT.

One photo shows the old controller in place side by side with the new 
one.  The other photo includes the name plate on the new controller.

Can anyone offer suggestions on installing the new one?  Or, should I 
just seek another controller that drops in?

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Re: [EVDL] tesla to close stores, sell online only

[Rod Hower via EV]

 I drove a Model 3 dual motor and single this weekend.  I went to the dealer in 
Cleveland, OH with a coworker in his Model X dual motor!  That thing is awesome 
and accelerates like a rocket.  The dual motor Model 3 was very nice and had 
incredible performance.  Even the single motor Model 3 had excellent 
performance.  It was nice to drive both vehicles.  I currently have a 2014 
Chevrolet Volt with 81K miles and it drives as nice as the Tesla, not the same 
performance, but I still drive most miles on pure electric.  I'm hoping the 
Volt gets another 100k miles and in 3-4 years I'll get a used Tesla model 3 for 
a discount.  I was not impressed with the autopilot, I still like to control my 
vehicle and it was kind of strange giving the vehicle control, I'm not a fan 
yet.  

On ‎Sunday‎, ‎March‎ ‎10‎, ‎2019‎ ‎08‎:‎09‎:‎40‎ ‎PM‎ ‎EDT, Mark Abramowitz 
via EV  wrote:  
 
 Well, I won’t argue with someone who thinks that a product has “almost no 
competition”, though I disagree. But even among the Tesla’s, there is 
competition.

- Mark

Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone

> On Mar 10, 2019, at 9:08 AM, Willie via EV  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On 3/10/19 9:40 AM, Mark Abramowitz wrote:
>> 
>> I do think that there are many normal consumers who will want an EV. For 
>> some of those, it may be icing on the cake, and not the primary reason for 
>> the purchase. And for those normal consumers, for the first time ever, they 
>> have CHOICE! Even among the Tesla’s.
>> Do I buy a Tesla 3? A Tesla S? A Chevy Bolt? A Toyota Mirai?
>> So what do people do? They compare them first hand.
> 
> At this point in time, the case for buying a Tesla is just overwhelming.  
> They have almost no competition.
> 
>> Given your own state’s experience that prohibits the stores (and I wasn’t 
>> aware of it was done there), I wonder how sales in your state compares to 
>> one where there *are* stores.
> 
> Perhaps Bruce will want to sus out some sales figures.  While not rivaling 
> California, I suspect Texas sales figures are pretty high. Especially 
> considering the lack of incentives that have been offered in California, 
> Colorado, Georgia, and some other states.  For several years, Tesla has 
> lobbied hard (and expensively) to get state government to allow direct sales. 
>  It is my opinion that Tesla has now taken the attitude: "Screw 'em!  We will 
> kill the dealer sales model".  And I wish them the best.
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Re: [EVDL] Types of electric motors used in EVs

[Rod Hower via EV]

 Interesting article describing advancements in EV motors, The Secrets of 
Electric Cars and Their Motors: It's Not All About the Battery, Folks

| 
| 
| 
|  |  |

 |

 |
| 
|  | 
The Secrets of Electric Cars and Their Motors: It's Not All About the Ba...

Eric Adams

Car nuts know precious little about the motors in electric cars, yet they’re 
central to innovation.
 |

 |

 |





On ‎Monday‎, ‎January‎ ‎7‎, ‎2019‎ ‎09‎:‎41‎:‎18‎ ‎PM‎ ‎EST, Marc de 
Piolenc via EV  wrote:  
 
 This is a very stupid question, but I can't seem to get an answer: what 
type of electric motor is used in modern electric vehicles?

Marc de Piolenc
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: $50k flying EVs over San_Francisco-CA next year

[Rod Hower via EV]

 Who was elected in 2016? Case closed

On ‎Friday‎, ‎December‎ ‎28‎, ‎2018‎ ‎09‎:‎42‎:‎14‎ ‎PM‎ ‎EST, Alan Arrison 
via EV  wrote:  
 
 Does anyone believe this nonsense?

Al

On 12/28/2018 6:26 PM, brucedp5 via EV wrote:
>
> https://www.timesofisrael.com/husband-and-wife-duo-sets-sights-on-flying-cars-over-san-francisco-next-year/
> Husband-and-wife duo sets sights on flying cars over San Francisco next year
> 25 December 2018  Federico Maccioni
>
> [image
> https://static.timesofisrael.com/www/uploads/2018/12/28-1-e1545231057248.jpg
> Illustrative detail image of a vehicle from New Future Transportation.
> (Courtesy)
> ]
>
> New Future Transportation (NFT) is developing an electric car prototype with
> wings that aims to solve congestion and also be affordable at $50,000
>
> You start the car, pull out of the parking lot and hit the road. So far — a
> routine trip. Now, select flight mode. A pair of wings comes out of the
> sides of your vehicle and you take off for your destination.
>
> Like the cars in Ridley Scott’s masterpiece “Blade Runner” flying over a
> dystopian Los Angeles of 2019 [
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRXifdYkWvY
> ], the prototype of the vehicle being developed by Silicon Valley-based New
> Future Transportation [
> https://www.nxtft.com/
> ] (NFT) is theoretically set to sail the skies of the Bay Area in October
> next year.
>
> “Our mission is not transportation, but better quality of life,” said NFT
> chairman Guy Kaplinsky, an Israeli who, with his wife Maki Kaplinsky,
> designed the car.
>
> The two entrepreneurs live near Palo Alto, about 50 miles from San
> Francisco, because “houses are more beautiful and cheaper” than in the
> metropolis, they said. However, for people who need to get to work near the
> Golden Gate Bridge, it takes as much as two and a half hours by car, because
> of traffic congestion.
>
> [image]  Maki Kaplinsky, a co-founder of New Future Transportation, NFT Inc.
> (Courtesy)
>
> According to a study by inrix.com, people in the San Francisco area spent on
> average 79 peak hours stuck in traffic in 2017, ranking the city the third
> out of 297 cities in the US and fifth out of 1,360 urban centers around the
> world in driving time spent in congestion.
>
> Kaplinsky said their competitively priced flying vehicle will allow users to
> save time and money.
>
> The flying car prototype will be a zero-emission multimodal vehicle — that
> can both drive and fly — the size of a sport utility vehicle (SUV), with two
> or four seats. It will take off and land vertically, and its wings will
> retractable, not fixed, the two entrepreneurs explained.
>
> “We made our design flexible” by creating a sort of hybrid system, CEO Maki
> Kaplinsky said.
>
> The base of the vehicle is electric, with a built-in extended range
> generator. Maki Kaplinsky said that with this combination the vehicle’s
> target flying range of 300 miles (480 kilometers) and driving range of 100
> miles (160 kilometers) will be “feasible and economical.”
>
> The aim is to use just batteries in the future, the entrepreneurs explained,
> without a generator. However, they said, batteries allowing for such ranges
> are yet to be developed and it is difficult to predict when this
> breakthrough will take place.
>
> The vehicle will be able to be either piloted or fly autonomously, said Maki
> Kaplinsky, adding that US regulations allow flight at a height of 300 to
> 5,000 feet, even if in practice it is able to fly above and below this
> range.
>
> User-friendliness is the main feature of NFT’s projected flying car, which
> makes it stand out among other kinds of flying vehicles, the husband and
> wife said.
>
> [image]  Guy Kaplinsky, the co-founder and chairman of New Future
> Transportation, NFT. Inc (Courtesy)
>
> Maki Kaplinsky underlined that while drones and other electric aircraft
> require specific spots for parking and charging, NFT’s flying car can be
> parked in a garage or in the street. More importantly, she added, the
> vehicle’s “drive and fly” ability will allow users to reach their final
> destination using just one vehicle.
>
> Asked about technical issues that may arise with flying cars in an urban
> environment, the two entrepreneurs said that of course “people don’t like
> having cars flying above their heads,” but that the vehicles would be taking
> off from designated areas near shopping centers or highways. The two
> entrepreneurs believe that at low altitudes, the vehicles could fly over
> roads, open water or green areas so as to avoid the problem, while for
> higher altitudes there will be no issue because flying cars would be “just
> like today’s aircraft flying above us,” Maki Kaplinsky said.
>
> In terms of air traffic control management, Guy Kaplinsky said that each
> country has different regulations, and that in the US the Federal Aviation
> Administration would be the monitoring authority regulating traffic. With
> the introduction of flying cars, he 

Re: [EVDL] fear of hydrogen infrastructure

[Rod Hower via EV]

 "Alien 
invaders could be landing tomorrow.  Maybe they will tell us how to make 
hydrogen work."In our current situation of the shutdown, I'm sure aliens could 
explain how this works and receive strong support!

On ‎Thursday‎, ‎December‎ ‎27‎, ‎2018‎ ‎08‎:‎24‎:‎55‎ ‎PM‎ ‎EST, Willie via 
EV  wrote:  
 
 

On 12/27/18 6:59 PM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
> Mark, thanks for the reference. I just read the article
> https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/automotive-and-assembly/our-insights/hydrogen-the-next-wave-for-electric-vehicles
>  

Well..  I thought Mark had some positive comment to make.  I read 
the above to be just wild unsubstantiated conjecture/opinion. Alien 
invaders could be landing tomorrow.  Maybe they will tell us how to make 
hydrogen work.
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Re: [EVDL] fear of hydrogen infrastructure

[Rod Hower via EV]

 "I understand a recent study has shown some people are born with the 
ability to breath under water"
I believe that study is the same one that demonstrates the superior efficiency 
of Hydrogen powered submarines?
On ‎Thursday‎, ‎December‎ ‎27‎, ‎2018‎ ‎10‎:‎47‎:‎17‎ ‎AM‎ ‎EST, Peri 
Hartman via EV  wrote:  
 
 I understand a recent study has shown some people are born with the 
ability to breath under water, after spending several years of practice 
encouraging maturity of specialized tissues. We have a goal for gene 
modification so that, in the near future, all of us will have this 
ability.
Peri

-- Original Message --
From: "EVDL Administrator via EV" 
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
Cc: "EVDL Administrator" 
Sent: 27-Dec-18 7:39:15 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] fear of hydrogen infrastructure

>On 26 Dec 2018 at 17:02, Mark Abramowitz via EV wrote:
>
>>  But when you look at costs at scale, I understand a recent study showed
>>  hydrogen to be cheaper, by 3 to 1.
>
>Cheaper than what?
>
>David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
>EVDL Administrator
>
>= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
>= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not
>reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my
>email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
>= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
>
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Re: [EVDL] fear of hydrogen infrastructure

[Rod Hower via EV]

 "To have a large number of businesses supporting an unknown technology makes 
me suspicious."  That is the best explanation for hydrogen.  

On ‎Wednesday‎, ‎December‎ ‎26‎, ‎2018‎ ‎08‎:‎07‎:‎43‎ ‎PM‎ ‎EST, Mark 
Abramowitz via EV  wrote:  
 
 Certainly good points about infrastructure. But when you look at costs at 
scale, I understand a recent study showed hydrogen to be cheaper, by 3 to 1.

- Mark

Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone

> On Dec 26, 2018, at 2:50 PM, Peri Hartman via EV  wrote:
> 
> To be clear, I find fuel cells fascinating technology. I don't know how much 
> potential improvement is possible and I support continuing research to find 
> out.
> 
> That's different from supporting a build out of a hydrogen infrastructure. 
> There is significant cost to do so and, to be effective, it will probably 
> need to be as extensive as the current fueling infrastructure. I suppose one 
> could argue that such infrastructure partially exists already, considering 
> the land and some structures would be repurposed. But that's only part of the 
> cost. We still need to deal with new storage tanks and delivery systems from 
> tank to vehicle. Given that hydrogen is hard to contain and that the current 
> hydrogen infrastructure is essentially zero, this is a huge expense.
> 
> Second, the only method I know to produce hydrogen from non fossil fuel is by 
> cracking water. It's my understanding that it is substantially more efficient 
> to just use the electricity directly to charge a battery. Perhaps, if you 
> take into account the production of the battery you might show that in some 
> cases the fuel cell comes out ahead. But that's with last year's battery 
> technology. Enough progress is being made that I think such arguments will be 
> false if not already false.
> 
> To have a large number of businesses supporting an unknown technology makes 
> me suspicious. This is not an altruistic effort. Sure, support the build out 
> now. Get government money to help. Once all this is built, it will be 
> supplied with non fossil fuel hydrogen. Or not. If not, is that 
> infrastructure just going to sit there? Ha. The pressure to use it, with 
> hydrogen from natural gas, will be unsurmountable. Goals will be crushed and 
> the petrol industry will win.
> 
> So, let's support research. But no build out until we have reasonable 
> evidence of a technology to efficiently produce hydrogen in a sustainable way.
> 
> Peri
> 
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Re: [EVDL] EV sounds

[Rod Hower via EV]

I needed that on Wednesday when I was at a strip mall going to the Best  Buy.  
A guy was walking in the middle of the parking lane fully concentrated on his 
cell phone and I waited 15 seconds stopped before this guy realized there was a 
Volt in front of him!  An electrostatic shock would have been better than the 
sound effects, even if the Volt is quiet, who is that clueless walking in a 
parking lot?  And this guy was middle aged, surprising he made it this far 
without getting run over!!  

On Friday, November 23, 2018 7:29 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV 
 wrote:
 

 What I'd really like to see is an EV sound box that sounds like some of the
extrordinary sounds collected in this Video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0iMNfKfQAc
It is a collection of gigantic electrical shorts and malfunctions and the
sound of the arcing buz of 60 Hz is awsome.

But it wouild need to be an HD fully dynamic range recording.

Have that sneak up on you from behind as the reired low speed EV emission...

Bob, WB4APR
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Re: [EVDL] NICAD Batteries

[Rod Hower via EV]

I might be interested in playing with some, I have a few projects in mind.  Can 
you send a picture to rodhower at ameritech dot net Thanks,RodW8RNH 

On Thursday, November 1, 2018 9:01 PM, John Lussmyer via EV 
 wrote:
 

 On Thu Nov 01 14:14:48 PDT 2018 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
>I have approximately 1100 NiCad cells.  I purchased them about 10 years ago as 
>military surplus.  They were used in helicopters.  The specifications are: 
>Saft Model No. KO 14KH-B-1. 11 Amp-Hrs. Size: 2.25" W X 5.25" H, and 1" D.  If 
>anyone needs these batteries and are willing to pay shipping, you can have 
>them.  If not, I am shipping them to the recyclers next week.  In addition, I 
>have the battery links.  Specifications: 1.5" L X 0.5 " W.  Ctr - Ctr hole 
>spacing: 1" Holes dia: 3/16".  The links are Ni plate Cu.  If anyone needs 
>these links, I will sell them for the price of cooper.

What state are you in?


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Re: [EVDL] Nissan Leaf key: $300! Yikes

[Rod Hower via EV]

I have a 2014 Volt, which I've drove the past 2200 miles electric only.  The 
charge door on my Volt is just push it and it pops open.  Almost all new cars 
have the $300 key, they even try to sell you insurance when you buy a new car 
for the key, along with a bunch of other BS they try to sell when you buy new!  
The last car I bought new was a 1994 Saturn.  My 3 kids have had new cars 
thanks in part to grandpa, so I've had to deal with these dealerships for 
those, what a pain in the ass!
 

On Saturday, October 13, 2018 7:14 PM, Tom Keenan via EV 
 wrote:
 

 I have a 2013 Leaf.  It has a charging door open button inside at the left of 
the steering wheel.  I normally use the ‘inside’ button when I get home and the 
EV is parked for the day.  
Occasionally, I forget to unlock the door before I get out, or if I happen to 
not plug it in until later in the evening. The remote button is useful (saves 
opening the car, pressing the inside button, locking the car again) but really 
is only a small convenience.  Especially if you get the plug from the EVSE rack 
only to find you’ve forgotten to unlock the charge port door. 
I like having the remote charging door unlock on the fob, even if I only use it 
once every few weeks. 

Tom Keenan

> On Oct 13, 2018, at 2:12 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV  
> wrote:
> 
>> On 14 Oct 2018 at 7:57, Tom Parker via EV wrote:
>> 
>> My 2016 Leaf has remote charge port opening -- the key fob has a 3rd 
>> button, if you hold it down for about 2 seconds, the door opens.
> 
> Darned if I can see the point of this.  How hard could it be to open the 
> charging port door with your left hand, when you're standing there with the 
> charging connector in your right hand?  (Or vice versa.)  
> 
> Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems like I'd be more trouble to get 
> the keys out and find the right button.  And then you have to hold it down 
> for a while.  Nuisance.
> 
> OTOH, inside release fuel filler doors make sense.  They help prevent fuel 
> theft.  But with an EV, who's gonna steal your electrons?  Or is that a 
> thing now somehow?  Or EV charging port vandalism?  If so, does a remote 
> release really help?
> 
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator

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Re: [EVDL] Why I Won't Buy a Tesla

[Rod Hower via EV]

Mark, You probably shouldn't use microcontrollers because they have millions of 
transistors with the potential of failure, better stick with the bipolar 
transistor!  Good luck with that!
 

On Monday, October 8, 2018 3:45 PM, Mark Hanson via EV  
wrote:
 

 Aside from the high price the main reason I wouldn't buy a Tesla is they're 
the only manufacturer that has uses 6800 flashlight batteries (2170) in an 
onroad vehicle. I just think of all those points of failure and the complexity 
of monitoring that reduces reliability.  While Consumer Reports gave it high 
marks for handling etc, they gave it a low score for reliability.  Currently 
they send a "Tesla Ranger" out to your house for a battery field repair as this 
cost is built into the price of a pricey car.  I don't know how this business 
model will work on lower prices $30k versions.  I'm surprised the media doesn't 
mention the thousands of itty bitty cells in a Tesla and that no one else does 
it that way for reliability reasons (even with each one fused)
Have a renewable energy day
Mark in Roanoke Va
Www.Reevadiy.org. 

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [EVDL] 2008 Power Phase 100 UQM motors

[Rod Hower via EV]

I'm interested, I design invertors and EV controls, although most of my BLDC is 
2HP and below.  I have a 3 phase AC induction motor on my golf cart with a 450A 
control that will go up to 72Vdc, but I'm currently running it at 48V.  I need 
something for one of my Honda Insights to convert to electric, don't want to 
use the 8" Advanced DC series motor I have since it would be on the low end of 
performance, I want an Insight with more power than the current system. It's 
probably way to much for an Insight, but it's not that big or heavy at 110lbs.  
You can also email me at rod.ho...@ametek.com 

On Tuesday, September 4, 2018 8:09 PM, Rick Reinhard via EV 
 wrote:
 

 Is anybody interested in any UQM Power Phase 100 motors with no working 
invertors

Just trying to save them from the scrap yard

Rick
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Re: [EVDL] Roland Wiench

[Rod Hower via EV]

Roland was a good man that posted many useful tips to people on the EVDL.  RIP! 
 https://s3.amazonaws.com/CFSV2/obituaries/photos/3706/563356/5afb090786012.gif
 

On Monday, August 20, 2018 8:26 PM, Alan Arrison via EV  
wrote:
 

 Roland always answered newbie questions that he had probably answered 
many times before.

Rest in  peace Roland.

Al


On 8/20/2018 6:29 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:
> If youi've been on the EVDL for a while, you probably remember reading posts
> by Roland Wiench.  He gave us a lot of them -- over 4,100.  His first post,
> about LRR tires, seems to have been in November of 2003.  He posted several
> times in late 2016 and early 2017, then one last time in May of 2017.
>
> You can read many of his posts in the archive.  He's also quoted in an EVDL
> library article, http://www.evdl.org/pages/battpost.html
>
> I realized recently that I hadn't read anything from him in quite a while,
> so I did some investigation.  I'm sad to report that Roland passed away on
> the 16th of March this year.  The obituary is quoted below.
>

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Re: [EVDL] ChargePoint usage

[Rod Hower via EV]

Cor,  I plan on making a sign for the window with my cell if somebody needs an 
EV charging spot, but it's kind of discouraging that a place like Kent has 
almost no EV's and nobody ever charges there.  This is a progressive town, but 
not for EV's.  The max occupation for this parking garage is 1 car, and that is 
maybe 2 times a month for the EV charge spots.  I'll be in my new spot everyday 
now, I'm guessing others have not realized the rate has been reduced to 10 
cents/kWhr, but who knows, I've only seen a few EV's in Kent! 

On Wednesday, August 15, 2018 6:33 PM, Cor van de Water via EV 
 wrote:
 

 Rod,
Even with all the historic data, you can’t predict when an EV’er in emergency 
need of some juice will arrive, so it is good habit to free up a charger when 
not actively charging there (or post instructions in your windshield how/when 
unplugging is allowed if there is the possibility to use the charger from 
multiple parking spots, but still then you may be blocking an EV from charging 
if other spots do fill up).
Even just leaving your cell number so an EV’er in need can request you to 
vacate your parking spot so he/she can fill up – if they are assertive enough 
to take that step….
(you can make the threshold lower by an inviting phrase like “feel free to call 
me when you need a charge”.
Cor.

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Rod Hower via EV
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2018 2:39 PM
To: Brucedp5 via EV
Cc: Rod Hower
Subject: [EVDL] ChargePoint usage

 I started charging my Chevy Volt at a downtown parking deck in Kent, OH.  They 
previously charged 35 cents/kWhr, so I never charged there (I can make the 42 
mile round trip in my Volt without using gas in the summer, So I would only 
charge at home with 13 cents/kWhr).  I just discovered that they now only 
charge 10 cents/kWhr, so I plug in everyday at work in Kent and also at home.  
The are 3 ChargePoint spots in the parking deck and 95% of the time I'm the 
only car there.  My charge finishes before lunch and I was moving the car to 
free up the spot, but it seems there's no reason to do that if no cars are 
waiting.  I tried to find something on the ChargePoint website showing a 
specific charge stations usage, but couldn't find anything.  Is there a way to 
find out the charge stations usage over a period of time?Thanks,
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[EVDL] ChargePoint usage

[Rod Hower via EV]

 I started charging my Chevy Volt at a downtown parking deck in Kent, OH.  They 
previously charged 35 cents/kWhr, so I never charged there (I can make the 42 
mile round trip in my Volt without using gas in the summer, So I would only 
charge at home with 13 cents/kWhr).  I just discovered that they now only 
charge 10 cents/kWhr, so I plug in everyday at work in Kent and also at home.  
The are 3 ChargePoint spots in the parking deck and 95% of the time I'm the 
only car there.  My charge finishes before lunch and I was moving the car to 
free up the spot, but it seems there's no reason to do that if no cars are 
waiting.  I tried to find something on the ChargePoint website showing a 
specific charge stations usage, but couldn't find anything.  Is there a way to 
find out the charge stations usage over a period of time?Thanks,
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Re: [EVDL] Honda Insight Lithium Upgrade

[Rod Hower via EV]

Evan,Do you have a project page for your Insight conversion? 

On Tuesday, May 29, 2018 5:47 PM, Evan Tuer via EV  
wrote:
 

 On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 10:26 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV <
ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:

> This is going to sound callous, but IMO, life is too short to argue with
> your friends about why their bright ideas will or won't work.  Just let
> him
> know whether he can sleep on your couch if his lithium science fair
> project
> burns his house down.  :-)
>
>
I wouldn't say it won't work... It just won't be very simple!  Remember the
"MIMA" modification and similar gadgets are available for the Insight,
which gain control over charge and discharge of the battery. The basis of
that could be used along with a lithium BMS to make it work safely, if you
knew what you were doing.

I decided it would be too much trouble, removed the gas engine and hybrid
system altogether and put in a 22kWh lithium pack and a 100kW motor
(spoiler: this was also a lot of trouble).
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Re: [EVDL] Zombie

[Rod Hower via EV]

I used to go to Welcome to Plasma Boy Racing, home of White Zombie, the world's 
quickest street legal electric door slammer in the 1/4 mile drag.

  
|  
|   |  
Welcome to Plasma Boy Racing, home of White Zombie, the world's quickest street 
legal electric door slammer in th...
   |  |

  |

 

but now it says this site may contain malware.  I don't think he's posted there 
in awhile, but I did follow his progress on the Insight but didn't see anything 
for a very long time.  Does he post anywhere else regarding the details of his 
Insight project?
 

On Tuesday, April 24, 2018 2:11 PM, Damon Henry via EV  
wrote:
 

 He's fine.  I had breakfast with him just a couple of days ago.  The accident 
was last fall during filming for the show on Netflix and only the two cars 
involved got hurt.  Zombie is sitting in a shop waiting for repairs.  In the 
meantime John is busy trying to finish up his 400 mile per charge Honda Insight 
- EV1 conversion he is dubbing EV2 :)  It's a project he started several years 
ago, but put on hold for a few years after the death of his wife Cheryl.  He is 
now in the latter stages and thinks it might be on the road some time in the 
next few months.

Damon

From: EV  on behalf of Gary Krysztopik via EV 

Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2018 9:59 AM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Cc: Gary Krysztopik
Subject: [EVDL] Zombie

Has anybody heard from John Wayland? Seems he was in a fender bender.  Hope
he's ok.
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Re: [EVDL] Full disclosure: EMW consulting

[Rod Hower via EV]

Good luck Cor!  I'm sure you'll do very well there and I'm looking forward to 
seeing new products introduced.
 

On Saturday, April 7, 2018 4:39 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV 
 wrote:
 

 Wishing you all the best!  

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not 
reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my 
email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
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Re: [EVDL] Anybody need help with EV or AV (Autonomous Vehicle) on land, water or in the air?

[Rod Hower via EV]

I just received this yesterday from Charged magazine,
New Job Alerts in EV Tech
Brought to you by New Energy Staffing & Recruiting, the exclusive jobs partner 
of Charged EVs Magazine.   
   - Integration Engineer - Power Electronics   
 Heavy-duty EV drivetrains in Indiana   
  
   - Senior Mechanical Engineer - BMS   
 Automaker in San Francisco Bay Area   
  
   - Controls Engineer - EV Powertrain   
 Heavy-duty EV drivetrains in Indiana   
  
   - Electrochemists/Material Scientists   
 Battery manufacturing and materials development in multiple locations   
  
   - Electric Machine Validation Engineer   
 Heavy-duty EV drivetrains in Indiana   
  
   - System Integration Technical Advisor   
 Heavy-duty EV drivetrains in San Francisco Bay Area   
  
   - Battery Integration Technical Advisor   
 Heavy-duty EV drivetrains in Indiana   
  
   - Battery Program Manager   
 Advanced battery materials development in Boston Area   
  
   - Senior Power Electronics Engineer   
 EV technology development in San Francisco Bay Area
 

On Thursday, March 29, 2018 4:10 AM, Cor van de Water via EV 
 wrote:
 

 Anybody looking for help brainstorming, developing or debugging EV or
AV?

The company that I worked for since when this milennium just started
will be downsizing

so I have decided to see if I can make the move from the communications
field to the

automotive arena as well as from employment to consulting, though I
would not be 

opposed to a job offer ;-)

 

In addition, just to make sure I won't get bored, I am considering
buying a salvage 2014 Model S

and parting it out - which also gives me the opportunity to get familiar
with the Tesla.

Note that it comes without battery and is also missing most interior
electronics,

but the body is in perfect shape. I am trying to find how I can hook up
with Tesla owners who need

to find parts themselves.

 

Note that Renewable Energy and Fast Charging are also fields that I can
contribute to.

 

Lastly, since I will be losing this email address, please contact me at
cor.vandewa...@gmail.com

Thanks,

Cor.

(located in Silicon Valley)

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Re: [EVDL] interesting links

[Rod Hower via EV]

I still remember when JB was on the EVDL posting about that Porshe and getting 
advice from Lee Hart and other longtime list members!
 

On Monday, March 19, 2018 12:53 PM, Willie via EV  wrote:
 

 https://www.rathascourage.com/author%20bio%20
http://www.evalbum.com/223

Interestingly, JB's early activities are not mentioned in his wikipedia 
article
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._B._Straubel
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: e-NV200 campervan on 3week road.nz trial

[Rod Hower via EV]

The purple thing on the roof is a popup tent, 
https://www.jucy.co.nz/useful-stuff/jucy-ev/check-out-our-jucy-ev-gallery/ 

On Saturday, February 10, 2018 11:54 AM, Robert Bruninga via EV 
 wrote:
 

 Any pictures of how the campervan deploys?  Or do they climb on top and
sleep in a tent?

BOb


On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 9:49 PM, George Tyler via EV 
wrote:

> I saw it! at the charging station in Cambridge  NZ, opposite the town
> hall, which is the nearest town to me. Green "Jucy" van, very small for a
> campervan.
>
>
>
> On 09-Feb-18 6:46 PM, brucedp5 via EV wrote:
>
>>
>> http://gisborneherald.co.nz/autowatch/3198473-135/electric-
>> campervan-on-three-week-road-trial
>> Electric campervan on three-week road trial
>> January 30, 2018
>>
>> [image
>> http://gisborneherald.co.nz/csp/mediapool/sites/dt.common.st
>> reams.StreamServer.cls?STREAMOID=tDfPQWV5W041asN0GaqmB8$daE2
>> N3K4ZzOUsqbU5sYtoeklmNgbvvdITzUbbR6UaWCsjLu883Ygn4B49Lvm9bPe
>> 2QeMKQdVeZmXF$9l$4uCZ8QDXhaHEp3rvzXRJFdy0KqPHLoMevcTLo3h8xh7
>> 0Y6N_U_CryOsw6FTOdKL_jpQ-=image/jpeg
>> ]
>>
>> International tourists visiting New Zealand could be hitting the roads in
>> electric campervans within two years if a new electric vehicle trial
>> proves
>> successful.
>>
>> Auckland-based company Jucy Rentals will trial a full-electric Nissan
>> E-NV200 campervan with the help of two overseas tourists.
>>
>> During their journey, two visiting French students will travel thousands
>> of
>> kilometres throughout the North Island in a prototype Jucy campervan,
>> powered only by electricity.
>>
>> The tourists plan to visit about 30 destinations in the North Island over
>> three-weeks.
>>
>> Jucy CEO Tim Alpe says the company aims to introduce a new category of
>> electric vehicle to its fleet to meet growing demand from millennial
>> tourists.
>>
>> “Electric vehicles are the future of the Jucy campervan fleet and this
>> trial
>> is the ideal platform to test our product offering for customers.
>>
>> “This market segment in particular wants more environmentally-sustainable
>> travel options. At the same time this gives our tourists more choice and
>> cheaper running costs.”
>>
>> Alpe says further expansion of the programme will need additional
>> investment
>> in charging infrastructure and vehicles that can travel further distances.
>>
>> “Campervans are the perfect vehicle to be electrically powered as tourists
>> tend to drive during the day and can then recharge overnight at their
>> campground.
>>
>> “One of the biggest barriers we will face in the short term is lack of
>> infrastructure to support EV charging.
>>
>> “We are working with camping grounds to introduce suitable facilities for
>> overnight charging but there is also a need to bring in rapid chargers on
>> the roads between main centres.
>>
>> “At the same time, there are range limitations of the vehicles that need
>> to
>> be overcome to ensure tourists can travel long distances across the
>> country,
>> without the need to constantly recharge their battery.
>>
>> “Our future as a sustainable tourist market will be short-lived if our
>> customer experience is impacted by the range their vehicle can travel each
>> day.”
>>
>> The company plans to introduce charging stations at their branches and
>> hotels across NZ and Australia. -Driven
>> [© gisborneherald.co.nz]
>>
>>
>>
>> +
>> https://www.tahawultech.com/news/electric-vehicle-road-trip/
>> Electric car road trip crosses UAE finish line
>> January 28, 2018  Global EVRT has concluded its nine-day road trip across
>> the UAE and Oman, in a bid to accelerate electric vehicle adoption across
>> the Middle East. The trip, which featured a fleet of cars including
>> Chevrolet Bolt EVs, a BMW i3 and Tesla X and S models, saw the opening of
>> numerous new electric vehicle charging stations ...
>>
>>
>> https://www.theglobeandmail.com/real-estate/condos-grappling
>> -with-demand-for-electric-car-charging-stations/article37871983/
>> Condos grappling with demand for electric car charging stations
>> 20180208  For condo-hunting Jean Guilbault, there was one feature in
>> particular that any building absolutely had to offer if it was to make the
>> grade: a charging station for …
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
>>  http://evdl.org/archive/
>>
>>
>> {brucedp.neocities.org}
>>
>> --
>> Sent from: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/
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>> /NEDRA)
>>
>>
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>
>
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Re: [EVDL] LiIon thermal management question (Chevy Volt)

[Rod Hower via EV]

Peter,Glad to see your back.  Keep me in the loop for anything you find out 
about the CANbus hack for the Volt.  I havea 2014, best car I've ever owned! 

On Friday, January 26, 2018 10:43 AM, Peter VanDerWal via EV 
 wrote:
 

 Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2018 09:40:23 -0800
From: "Cor van de Water" 
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
Subject: Re: [EVDL] LiIon thermal management question (Chevy Volt)
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain;  charset="us-ascii"

Peter,
Storing LiIion batteries is usually not the problem, although it is
recommended for long life to not store them fully charged, especially
not in hot environment.
Damage is done when (fast) charging in cold - the colder, the slower
they need to charge to avoid damage.
Nissan Leaf only has battery warmers, those will only come on when the
car is on or plugged in and below a certain temp (I believe -30)
I don't know about the Volt, it might simply stop maintaining the temp
when the EVSE is disabled, you can find out by simply trying and see if
the state of charge of the Volt changes when the EVSE is not enabled.
Cor. 
Thanks, Cor.
FWIW the Volt never allows the battery to fully charge or fully discharge.  
This means that even though it has an 18.4kWh battery, only 14kWh is available.
The thermal management does both heating and cooling.  From what I've read all 
(electrical) heating is done with resistance heaters, cooling is done with a 
heat pump (cooling mode only, i.e. AC)
'Fast' charging is also not an option.  While it does support Level-2 charging, 
it tops out at 3.6kW which is about 6% of the batteries maximum charge rate.

I suspect you may find that the Volt still uses energy to keep the battery 
within its desired temperature range, but simply uses battery energy instead of 
EVSE energy.  You should be able to detect that by watching the range after the 
car sits unplugged or the EVSE is disabled, compared to range after the car 
sits with the EVSE providing power overnight.

Mike
Thanks, Mike.
That's a good point.  I hadn't thought about it using the battery energy to 
maintain temp. 
I'll have to try leaving it unplugged and see what happens.  
However, I'm not sure if this would actually tell me anything.  It's possible 
that, even if it does use the batteries, I won't see a reduction in range right 
away.  It might just dig a bit more into the reserve so that it can provide the 
same 14kWh.
I gather that's what it does as the pack ages so that even after 6 years the 
'available' capacity remains the same as it was when new.
I'm far from a lithium expert, but I've read that while lead batteries lose 
performance at low temperatures, cold can wreck lithiums if you're not 
careful.  As I understand it, they should never be charged when their 
temperature is below freezing.  I think that even discharging them gets 
risky if they sink too far below 0 deg C.  

They also degrade faster (have shorter lives) when they get hot while fully 
charged.  They don't seem to like being fully charged at all.  The rule of 
thumb I read years ago for laptop batteries was that you should store them 
at 50-70% SOC. 

So I'd guess that thermal management is probably pretty important for your 
Volt's battery. 

BTW, welcome back to the EVDL, Peter.  It's been years since we've heard 
from you. Good to know you're OK.
Hi David, 
Yeah, it's been a while hasn't it?  I've been busy, but I have a new job that 
leaves me with a lot of free time, occasionally. 
Fortunately we rarely get below freezing and even then it's typically for only 
a few hours. Plus the Volt never allows the battery to get fully charged or 
fully discharged.
The geek in me wishes that Chevy would provided a way to get more detailed info 
about the battery, etc.  There is no SOC display, just a 10 segment display 
that shows how much of the allowed 14kWh you've used.  The predicted range 
display for a fully charged pack is not a constant, it varies significantly 
depending recent performance and possibly takes current environmental 
conditions into account.
There used to be a lot of information available through the OnStar link, but 
recently they have removed quite a lot of the data, including the data about 
battery level and charge state.
I've seen some folks are working on hacking the canbus to get at the data, so I 
might try that.
Thanks everyone.
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Re: [EVDL] (ot): EVLN EV newswire status ...

[Rod Hower via EV]

I may have missed the post, but what is in Cyclone, TX?  Looks like it's in the 
middle of nowhere (but they do have a BBQ). 

On Sunday, December 17, 2017 12:09 AM, brucedp5 via EV  
wrote:
 

 

In the past I have mentioned that I am spending time doing tasks and
research to relocate (to more affordable digs). I thank the people who have
helped advise me offline (especially Willie), so I can keep my head straight
and aimed toward achieving my goal. I have made decisions and actions (like
a commitment) toward that goal. If all goes well I will begin my trip on
Monday.

Not to go into all the details ... how this will impact my EVLN posts we
will have to see. Knowing my energy levels are not as high as when I was a
younger man, I am limiting my driving time before stopping for an over night
motel stay (this might be a rather painful week long trip for others, but
this trip will be at a slow enough pace so I do not over tax/load myself. I
plan to avoid large cities to minimize traffic jams, etc. (map)
https://goo.gl/maps/zBuMbT71Npr

There may be days when I do not post, or days where I post a couple of days
worth. I am hoping, my slower pace method (and motel WiFi) will allow me the
energy levels& connectivity  to make this transition seamless.

A lot of challenges await this old-man, but I am hoping for the best.




For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
 http://evdl.org/archive/


{brucedp.neocities.org}

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Re: [EVDL] Best EV level 2 charging station with KWh display

[Rod Hower via EV]

Mark,What schematic and PCB program do they use for this project? (openEVse)
 

On Thursday, December 14, 2017 2:34 PM, Mark Hanson via EV 
 wrote:
 

 Hi folks
I've tried several different charging stations with a J1773 240vac connector.  
The best with schematics and kWh time & amps is www.openevse.com.  And you can 
put a dryer/stove plug on it for portability.  
Have a renewable energy Christmas
Mark in Roanoke VA
Www.REEVAdiy.org see project gallery. 

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [EVDL] Voltage spikes

[Rod Hower via EV]

This is interesting, worrying about a lightning strike!  I'm more worried about 
the redneck smoking a cigarette while fueling his ICE :-)
 

On Wednesday, December 13, 2017 6:16 PM, Peter Gabrielsson via EV 
 wrote:
 

 UL requires EVSEs to go through pretty serious surge testing, 6000V 3300A
if I recall correctly. All the EVSEs I've torn down have MOVs installed.

The vehicle has additional MOVs and protection.

On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 3:00 AM, Peter Eckhoff via EV 
wrote:

> We live in an area with a fair number of thunderstorms and we see the
> lights blink a couple of times during a storm.  I have some appliances on
> surge protectors which leads to:
>
> 1)  How well are the home charging stations able to handle voltage spikes
> and not transmit the voltage to a pack?
>
> 2)  Should an EV be disconnected from the grid during a thunderstorm?
>
> 3)  Has anyone on this list examined the schematics for the various at home
> charging stations to try to determine the better ones?
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Re: [EVDL] volt versus leaf revisited, paging Jerry Dycus?

[Rod Hower via EV]

Here's what he posted back on Oct. 26,"Hi Fred and All,    Volt are excellent 
modules but taking them apart is not wise as needs cooling flow and compression 
plus end plates, hard to seal back together, cell damage if not compressed on 
charging.So smallest module you get is 4kwh, 2 48vdc sections  at 100lbs is how 
I'm doing my E trike pickup I recently converted from lead.Though I sell these 
on the EV Trading Post at $150/kwh complete modules only, likely the Leaf 
modules will be better at less than half the weight for the amount you 
need..Unless 100lbs is good then Volt's are lower cost, better power, longer 
lasting.Most want $200/kwh on ebay for Leaf modules though haven't checked in a 
few months as I can get Volt packs locally for less. Jerry Dycus"I believe he 
still uses freedomev at yahoo.com 

On Tuesday, December 12, 2017 4:38 PM, fred via EV  
wrote:
 

 I found a previous discussion I started regarding Volt versus Leaf batteries. 
Jerry Dycus offered up some useful information, although I'm still undecided 
which pack to use in the Ariens Amp electric riding mower.
I've not been able to find a contact via email for Jerry, although I suspect 
I've seen it somewhere. Grey matter failure to blame here.
I'd like to re-open the discussion of the decision making for one pack over the 
other and to purchase one from Jerry, if they are still available.
How does one contact Mr. Dycus via email? It seems appropriate to take my 
discussion off-list.

If anyone has other comments regarding selecting one type over the other, 
please chime in.
thanksfred
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Re: [EVDL] Combating ICED EV parking spaces

[Rod Hower via EV]

There are 4 parking spots for EV's in the deck at downtown Kent.  Work pays for 
me to park in the deck but the Chargepoint chargers cost 35 cents/kWhr (and 
that's the discounted rate for people that have deck parking, otherwise it's 54 
cents/kWhr).  It's cheaper just to use gas in the Volt, so I don't charge 
there.  It's 42 miles round trip to work and in the summer I do EV only, but in 
the winter I have to use about 10 miles gas on cold days.  It would be nice if 
they charged a reasonable rate for charging!
 

On Monday, December 11, 2017 5:46 PM, Cal Frye via EV  
wrote:
 

 There is a bit of contention for spaces where I work. In my assigned 
garage, there is one L2 charging station, with one space designated for 
EVs. A week or so ago, the designated spot was occupied by a Volt that 
seemed to have been abandoned - it was parked in the space for four days 
straight, as far as I could tell.

Nearby, an obstruction was marked off with several orange cones. One day 
when I was leaving, I moved one of the cones to block the space adjacent 
to the Volt, and sure enough, the next day that space was available for 
me. We'll see how long I can get away with this subterfuge.

I have been contacting the parking authorities from time to time trying 
to make a case for marking two spaces for a single charger, probably 
time to do so again.

Cal Frye

PS - I've seen a Ford CMax, two Volts, four Leafs (including mine), an 
i3, and a Bolt all circling the space, fortunately not all at the same 
time. It's certainly time to request more chargers!

> Dan Baker via EV 
> December 8, 2017 at 7:27 AM
> Hey everyone thanks for the response so far. I agree now, better to try a
> more friendly method then resort to push & threaten. So frustrating
> though, easy to get caught up. Would love to see some of those printed
> cards/flyers Mark!
>
> Cheers
> Dan

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Re: [EVDL] Heater

[Rod Hower via EV]

I had to look this up on Wikipedia since a 100% efficient resistive heater is 
hard to beat, but I guess I didn't understand that the heat pump is getting 
added energy from the environment.  "
Heat energy naturally transfers from warmer places to colder spaces. However, a 
heat pump can reverse this process, by absorbing heat from a cold space and 
releasing it to a warmer one. Heat is not conserved in this process and 
requires some amount of external energy, such as electricity. In heating, 
ventilation and air conditioning (HVAC) systems, the term heat pump usually 
refers to vapor-compression refrigeration devices optimized for high efficiency 
in both directions of thermal energy transfer. These heat pumps can be 
reversible, and work in either direction to provide heating or cooling to the 
internal space.Heat pumps are used to transfer heat because less high-grade 
energy is required than is released as heat. Most of the energy for heating 
comes from the external environment, only a fraction of which comes from 
electricity (or some other high-grade energy source required to run a 
compressor). In electrically-powered heat pumps, the heat transferred can be 
three or four times larger than the electrical power consumed, giving the 
system a coefficient of performance (COP) of 3 or 4, as opposed to a COP of 1 
for a conventional electrical resistance heater, in which all heat is produced 
from input electrical energy.Heat pumps use a refrigerant as an intermediate 
fluid to absorb heat where it vaporizes, in the evaporator, and then to release 
heat where the refrigerant condenses, in the condenser. The refrigerant flows 
through insulated pipes between the evaporator and the condenser, allowing for 
efficient thermal energy transfer at relatively long distances.[5] "
 

On Tuesday, November 28, 2017 8:42 PM, Bill Dube via EV  
wrote:
 

 If you what to get quite fancy, modern OEMs use a heat pump run with a 
small variable frequency drive. About 4x the efficiency of a resistive 
heater. No joke, and that is a serious increase in range in the winter. 
No doubt, you can get a Leaf compressor cheap in the bone yard.

By adding the proper valving, you have the bonus of air conditioning, 
but that is even more of a project. The good thing is, you can reuse the 
cars existing air conditioning condensor and evaporator and some of the 
A/C plumbing.

It can get quite complicated, however, and a resistive ceramic type 
heater core is, no doubt, the simplest option. I'd opt for a "high/low" 
switch (series-parallel?) on two ceramic heaters, or some sort of 
thermostat on the outgoing air from the heater(s).

Bill D.

On 11/28/2017 4:33 PM, Bob Bath via EV wrote:
> Respectfully, when I did Civicwithacord, the goal was defrosting the 
> windshield effectively, not keeping me warm. Yanking out the dash to install 
> the ceramic heater in the old fluid core housing was easily the biggest b---h 
> of the conversion, but the time and look and safety was well worth it!!
>
> Bob Bath, from his iPod, so any misspellings are from autocorrect or fat 
> fingers on a small device, not cluelessness...
>
>> On Nov 28, 2017, at 3:13 PM, Bill Dennis via EV  wrote:
>>
>> I used a 1500W heater core in my Geo Metro conversion, and I'd say that it
>> kept the car kinda "warmish" on really cold days.  But I think if I'd taken
>> the time to put extra insulation in the car, that would have helped.
>>
>> Bill
>>
>>

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