[FairfieldLife] YF and soma?
Does Yogic Flying produce soma? I've noticed that when I occasionally do flying, almost all my ailments vanish, for a couple of hours at least. For instance my almost continuous mild to moderate heart burn (prolly caused mainly by Helicobacter pylori -infection) disappears usually after a couple of minutes of aakaasha-gamana -suutra; I actually do only the first part (kaayaakaashayoH sambandaH) mainly to avoid the noise early in the morning. 11 Our maladies have lost their strength and vanished: they feared, and passed away into the darkness. Soma hath risen in us, exceeding mighty, and we are come where men prolong existence. apa` tyA a'sthu`rani'rA` amI'vA` nira'trasa`ntami'ShIchI`rabhai'ShuH | A somo' a`smA.N a'ruha`dvihA'yA` aga'nma` yatra' prati`ranta` Ayu'H || 8.048.11 pada-paaTha without accent marks: apa | tyaaH | asthuH | aniraaH | amiivaaH | niH | atrasan | tamiSiiciiH | abhaiSuH | aa | somaH | asmaan | aruhat | vi-haayaaH | aganma | yatra | pra-tirante | aayuH // RV_8,48.11 // (In pada-paaTha, a lot of those quantum fluctuations seem be lost...)
[FairfieldLife] When Prophecy Fails
Being a big fan of the book When Prophecy Fails, I love days like today, when True Believers all over the world awaken to find not the Rapture they were hoping and praying for (not to mention the condemnation into eternal hellfire of those who had been making fun of them *for* hoping and praying for the end of the world). Moments like this provoke an intense state of cognitive dissonance. The fascinating thing is what happens when the cognitive dissonance hits the fan. The True Believers almost always find a way to change their beliefs rather than deal with the facts. That will happen with Harold Camping and his group of sad heaven seekers. The only interesting part, now that the sociological trends in such cases have been established as thoroughly predictable, is exactly *how* they'll find a way to change their beliefs that doesn't make them look like total idiots *to themselves*. They're comfortable with having been thought of as idiots by unbelievers, because of course unbelievers don't count. But they'll have to find a way to maintain the group delusion so that they don't look at *each other* and think, Man, how could that person have been such a dweeb as to believe in this crap? Because the next thought after that would be, Oh shit...how could *I* have been such a dweeb as to believe in this crap? Can't have that. They'll jump through hoops and come up with some way to just shift their beliefs around and pretend that everything is just hunky-dory. This should be a familiar pattern to everyone who has followed the ever-changing magic numbers necessary for TMSP butt-bouncers to bring about world peace. First it was one set of numbers, and they were achieved and damn! -- no world peace. The solution was obvious. Not enough butt-bouncers, so the magic number was raised. And achieved. And still nothing happened, world-peace-wise. The ultimate solution, of course, is to create so much disaffection in TMers and ban enough of them from the domes for lifestyle infractions that the newest magic number can never be achieved. That'll outfox the critics. Then *we* will never have to go through one of those How could I have been such a dweeb as to believe in this crap moments. Prophecy FailWhat happens to a doomsday cult when the world doesn't end?By Vaughan Bell Preacher and evangelical broadcaster Harold Camping has announced that Jesus Christ will return to Earth this Saturday, May 21, and many of his followers are traveling the country http://www.thedaily.com/page/2011/05/19/051911-news-may-21-1-5/ in preparation for the weekend Rapture. They're undeterred, it seems, by Mr. Camping's dodgy track record with end-of-the-world predictions. (Years ago, he argued at length that the reckoning would come in 1994 http://www.amazon.com/1994-Harold-Camping/dp/0533103681/ref=sr_1_1?ie=U\ TF8qid=1305840171sr=8-1 .) We've yet to learn what motivates people like him to predict (and predict again) the end of the world, but there's a long and unexpected psychological literature on how the faithful make sense of missed appointments with the apocalypse. The most famous study into doomsday mix-ups was published in a 1956 book by renowned psychologist Leon Festinger and his colleagues called When Prophecy Fails http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0061311324/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8tag\ =slatmaga-20linkCode=as2camp=217145creative=399349creativeASIN=00613\ 11324 . A fringe religious group called the Seekers had made the papers by predicting that a flood was coming to destroy the West Coast. The group was led by an eccentric but earnest lady called Dorothy Martin, given the pseudonym Marian Keech in the book, who believed that superior beings from the planet Clarion were communicating to her through automatic writing. They told her they had been monitoring Earth and would arrive to rescue the Seekers in a flying saucer before the cataclysm struck. Festinger was fascinated by how we deal with information that fails to match up to our beliefs, and suspected that we are strongly motivated to resolve the conflicta state of mind he called cognitive dissonance. He wanted a clear-cut case with which to test his fledgling ideas, so decided to follow Martin's group as the much vaunted date came and went. Would they give up their closely held beliefs, or would they work to justify them even in the face of the most brutal contradiction? Advertisement The Seekers abandoned their jobs, possessions, and spouses to wait for the flying saucer, but neither the aliens nor the apocalypse arrived. After several uncomfortable hours on the appointed day, Martin received a message saying that the group had spread so much light that God had saved the world from destruction. The group responded by proselytizing with a renewed vigour. According to Festinger, they resolved the intense conflict between reality and prophecy by seeking safety in numbers. If more people can be persuaded that the system of belief is correct,
[FairfieldLife] Re: To Vaj- The Magical Puja Placebo
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote: That's one of the ones I was referring to. He's putting Jim down for what you're calling parrying, implying that he, Tart, is above it; then he goes and does it himself when Ravi tweaks him a little bit. When you criticize a particular behavior, you need to be careful not to indulge in it yourself, or you're going to look like a hypocrite. He spent most of the morning strutting around chastising various people for the way they think and behave, making I'm-so-enlightened-I-don't-have-to-do-that noises. When you look down your nose at folks and put yourself on that kind of pedestal, you invite extra scrutiny of Smug and self-satisfied is the way I'd describe it. And note that it contradicts itself, since it implies he experiences such joy in life and people that he can ignore their flaws-- while he's criticizing Jim for the flaws he, Tart, sees in him. It's tough to criticize people for criticizing people without getting caught in self-contradiction. This is excellent analysis by Judy, I can't match her intellectual acumen but I have an ability to cut through crap. I just scanned couple of his messages and his energy was so palpable that I had no choice but to attack him :-). If this analysis can't help get Steve over his tartpuja I'm not sure what else can.
[FairfieldLife] Things to be thankful for now that the Rapture didn't happen
1. TMers should be thankful because if a bunch of Christians started levitating before they did, they'd never live it down. [the rapture] http://www.lifewithdogs.tv/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/the-rapture-535x4\ 01.jpg http://www.facebook.com/sharer.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lifewithdogs.tv%2\ F2011%2F05%2Fpost-rapture-pet-care%2Ft=Post-Rapture%20Pet%20Care%20%7C%\ 20Life%20With%20Dogssrc=sp 2. Salvation Army employees should be thankful because they won't have to hire atheists to sort through all those clothes left on the streets as the believers were lifted up into heaven. [461] http://clipsandcomment.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/rapture.jpg 3. Harold Camping should be grateful because now he can just disappear with the 72 million in donations he's collected as a result of this scam. Can you say vacation in Rio? I think you can. [harold camping 300x291] http://blippitt.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/harold-camping.jpg 4. The TM organization should be thankful because the world's still here and still in pretty bad shape, so they can continue to fleece millions in donations for *their* scams to save it. http://www.gapingvoid.com/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Things to be thankful for now that the Rapture didn't happen
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: 4. The TM organization should be thankful because the world's still here and still in pretty bad shape, From the POV of a vivekin like Myself, the Manifest World is practically always in velly bad shape! :-/
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM 's Mission Statement redux
One sentence! Version: Maharishi University of Management was founded by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi to produce more fully developed individuals by developing the potential of consciousness within every student through a higher educational system of Consciousness-Based education giving traditional academic knowledge a foundation coupled with the study of consciousness through Transcendental Meditation and other scientifically validated practices taught by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi for developing consciousness. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jpgillam jpgillam@ wrote: Feste, thanks for pointing out the actual text in question. I agree with you. It's pretty good. Good for what? Internal consumption? Clear guidance? Mission? Make sure your idea is clear and focused. You should be able to describe the (charity's) purpose and mission in a single sentence. -The Nonprofit Handbook -Grobman Three elements of a Good Mission Statement: 1 A mission statement should be no more than a single sentence long. 2 It should be easily understood by a twelve year old. 3 It should be able to be recited by memory at gunpoint. Having a clearly articulated mission statement gives one a template of purpose that can be used to initiate, evaluate, and refine all of one's activities. Unsuccessful or Inadequate Mission Statements will have these characteristics: 1 Uninspiring. 2 They are for the benefit of one person or party only. 3 They are unintelligible by outsiders. 4 They are full of trite or ordinary phrases. There, that is the movement's MUM mission statement. Pretty clearly the Movement's web page version of mission is to re-enforce people who are already tru-believers. It's for internal consumption mostly. One sentence! Version: Maharishi University of Management was founded by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi to produce more fully developed individuals by developing the potential of consciousness within every student through a higher educational system of Consciousness-Based education giving traditional academic knowledge a foundation coupled with the study of consciousness through Transcendental Meditation and other scientifically validated practices taught by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi for developing consciousness. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: Dear Feste37, you and I are some of the only tru-believers here who would like to see things work out for the movement. I hope they can succeed. Now, both of us can read the movement stuff and be right with it and understand what they are saying. But, I was taking a swing at reading it all as if I were an outsider looking in. You know, walking in the shoes of another. Trying to empathsize with an outsider looking in. I found the empathetic reading almost impossible. It is a bunch of cult-speak to anyone looking in. So, I then took a swing at distilling some core things down using their essential language that is there but slimming down the hyperbolic TM-movement-ese. Version I, was the straightest most secular I could get in one sentence using their words. Version II is the mission statement off the web page. Version II is un-readable cult. Version III was in between I and II editing in progress. I'm just trying to help. -Buck in FF --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 feste37@ wrote: I don't know where Doug gets these different versions from but the one that actually appears is not bad at all: About the University Mission Statement of the University Maharishi University of Management was founded in 1971 by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi to fulfill the highest ideals of education. Foremost among these ideals is developing the full potential of consciousness in
[FairfieldLife] Re: To Vaj- The Magical Puja Placebo
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Yogi raviyogi@... wrote: If this analysis can't help get Steve over his tartpuja I'm not sure what else can. Tartpuja. I like that.
[FairfieldLife] Sunday's Natural Law Lesson: The Sun!
Dear FFL'ers; Sunday, it's Sunday morning on FFL. The Sun is up! Here is this morning's Natural Law Lesson, curtsey of the Sun! Turn up yo speakers and worship the Sun! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=me06I9GDM_k Jai Guru Dev, -Buck in FF
Re: [FairfieldLife] Apple fans react to computers like religion: BBC
I posted this URL days before it was discovered and received the status of a separate post, as though then and only then did it achieve the status of something etched in stone tablets just like the 10 Suggestions. My hate for Apple goes back to when we had an Apple something at work and had to do graphics on it. Wanted to change the font? Well, just memorize which path you needed to go through the n**n layers of toolbar options before you got to fonts. Colour? Same thing. It kind of reminds me of the improvements people are making in their websites, GMail included, by adding more features but keeping the clutter down by hiding options. Now you don't have separate select all, select none, deselect control. You have a single control which, when you click on it shows all, none, some. And the check box which shows the many hidden choices single check mark is different shades of black and white. Hiding things behind context is so cool. And so dumb and confusing. I've said this before. Real computing was when you wrote an entire regional hospital's inventory of patients, symptoms, attending physicians, orders, interfaced with lab equipment and Pharmacy in 64K. On a mainframe. Bill Gates was right. Who would ever need more than 10 times 64K of RAM? Real computing was also assembling and disassembling your own code to/from octal or hex. Things made so much sense then. First two bits said if it was register to register, register to memory, memory to memory, memory to register. Next two bits said if the first operand was an indirect address, second bit the second operand was an indirect address. Then an bits for offset and bits for operation. Getting code into the computer? That's what the switch register was for. Finally Lisp came along. Try coding up a complex decision tree as a series of (function argument 1 argument 2 argument 3). Just like programming PLCs, only the exact opposite. Wimps.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: To Vaj- The Magical Puja Placebo
In that case, why would he have questioned one of Barry's posts? (See, now I'm being tart's apologist~~ I hope I'm doing a creditable job. ) Sal On May 21, 2011, at 10:50 AM, whynotnow7 wrote: From your reactions today, tartbrain, I assume you are taking the role of Barry and Vaj's apologist? If not, you are sure appearing that way to me dude. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchydog@ wrote: Boo Yah! Nicely delivered smack down. Thanks, Richard. YES! Great smack downs are what the good life is all about Socrotes
Re: [FairfieldLife] YF and soma?
On May 22, 2011, at 4:09 AM, cardemaister wrote: prolly caused mainly by Helicobacter pylori -infection You do know this can be taken care of with antibiotics, right? Yogic flying, much less so...
[FairfieldLife] Re: To Vaj- The Magical Puja Placebo
Tart was doing a whole lot of questioning yesterday. He did appear to be focusing mainly on Barry's and Vaj's antagonists, questioning their antagonism and asserting that he, Tart, felt no need to be antagonistic (except, it seemed, to those whose antagonism he was criticizing). He did question one of Barry's posts. Barry responded, once, not realizing at first that his post was being criticized until Tart questioned his response. (Oddly enough, Tart referred to this as having had several nice exchanges with Barry.) I suspect Tart would strongly reject the notion that he was being antagonistic toward anyone, or even criticizing them, and would criticize me for saying so, if it weren't for the fact that he doesn't read my posts (perhaps fearing that if he did, he'd have a hard time continuing the charade that he has evolved beyond antagonism). As I observed yesterday, it's difficult to avoid self- contradiction when one is busy criticizing others for being critical. Tart hasn't quite mastered it yet. It really can't be done if one insists on holding oneself up as an example of how the spiritually advanced have transcended the need to be critical. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@... wrote: In that case, why would he have questioned one of Barry's posts? (See, now I'm being tart's apologist~~ I hope I'm doing a creditable job. ) Sal On May 21, 2011, at 10:50 AM, whynotnow7 wrote: From your reactions today, tartbrain, I assume you are taking the role of Barry and Vaj's apologist? If not, you are sure appearing that way to me dude. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchydog@ wrote: Boo Yah! Nicely delivered smack down. Thanks, Richard. YES! Great smack downs are what the good life is all about Socrotes
[FairfieldLife] Re: When Prophecy Fails
Do you (turquoiseb) think the indoctrination and group behaviour patterns we see in various movements is entirely deliberate, or can be perhaps a more subtle, unconscious effect, with the result that believers become unaware of the cognitive dissonance? As an example, I have always had difficulty suppressing cognitive dissonance, and yet, being with a group having a coherent belief does have an effect to stun independence of expression which is sometimes difficult to overcome. We see on forums, where individuals are basically free of those kinds of group dynamics, a much wider range of opinion and beliefs being expressed. It also seems to me that 'spiritual development,' which leads to independence of mind and thinking, almost always begins for most people in an environment that has these group effects in suppressing cognitive dissonance. In other words, one is in an environment whose purpose is to wake up, get enlightened, or become some kind of more whole human being, practicing techniques like meditation whose function is to facilitate this process, and yet the intellectual and behavioural context of this environment works to subdue progress along these lines. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: Being a big fan of the book When Prophecy Fails, I love days like today, when True Believers all over the world awaken to find not the Rapture they were hoping and praying for (not to mention the condemnation into eternal hellfire of those who had been making fun of them *for* hoping and praying for the end of the world). Moments like this provoke an intense state of cognitive dissonance. The fascinating thing is what happens when the cognitive dissonance hits the fan. The True Believers almost always find a way to change their beliefs rather than deal with the facts.That will happen with Harold Camping and his group of sad heaven seekers. The only interesting part, now that the sociological trends in such cases have been established as thoroughly predictable, is exactly *how* they'll find a way to change their beliefs that doesn't make them look like total idiots *to themselves*. They're comfortable with having been thought of as idiots by unbelievers, because of course unbelievers don't count. But they'll have to find a way to maintain the group delusion so that they don't look at *each other* and think, Man, how could that person have been such a dweeb as to believe in this crap? Because the next thought after that would be, Oh shit...how could *I* have been such a dweeb as to believe in this crap? Can't have that. They'll jump through hoops and come up with some way to just shift their beliefs around and pretend that everything is just hunky-dory.This should be a familiar pattern to everyone who has followed the ever-changing magic numbers necessary for TMSP butt-bouncers to bring about world peace. First it was one set of numbers, and they were achieved and damn! -- no world peace. The solution was obvious. Not enough butt-bouncers, so the magic number was raised. And achieved. And still nothing happened, world-peace-wise. The ultimate solution, of course, is to create so much disaffection in TMers and ban enough of them from the domes for lifestyle infractions that the newest magic number can never be achieved. That'll outfox the critics. Then *we* will never have to go through one of those How could I have been such a dweeb as to believe in this crap moments. Prophecy Fail What happens to a doomsday cult when the world doesn't end? By Vaughan Bell Preacher and evangelical broadcaster Harold Camping has announced that Jesus Christ will return to Earth this Saturday, May 21, and many of his followers are traveling the country in preparation for the weekend Rapture. They're undeterred, it seems, by Mr. Camping's dodgy track record with end-of-the-world predictions. (Years ago, he argued at length that the reckoning would come in 1994.) We've yet to learn what motivates people like him to predict (and predict again) the end of the world, but there's a long and unexpected psychological literature on how the faithful make sense of missed appointments with the apocalypse.The most famous study into doomsday mix-ups was published in a 1956 book by renowned psychologist Leon Festinger and his colleagues called When Prophecy Fails. A fringe religious group called the Seekers had made the papers by predicting that a flood was coming to destroy the West Coast. The group was led by an eccentric but earnest lady called Dorothy Martin, given the pseudonym Marian Keech in the book, who believed that superior beings from the planet Clarion were communicating to her through automatic writing. They told her they had been monitoring Earth and would arrive to rescue the Seekers in a flying saucer before the cataclysm struck.Festinger was fascinated by how we deal with information that fails to match up to our beliefs, and suspected that we are strongly motivated to resolve the conflict a
[FairfieldLife] Re: When Prophecy Fails
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: Being a big fan of the book When Prophecy Fails, I love days like today, when True Believers all over the world awaken to find not the Rapture they were hoping and praying for So how many days like today have you experienced, and when was the most recent before this one? Also, just for the record, no believers awakened this morning to find that the Rapture had not occurred. They knew it before they went to bed last night. (Editorial note: Writerly flourishes tend to be a lot more effective when they don't contradict the known facts. If they do, readers quickly realize you're writing for yourself, not for them, and it lessens their investment in whatever point you wanted to make.) snip This should be a familiar pattern to everyone who has followed the ever-changing magic numbers necessary for TMSP butt-bouncers to bring about world peace. First it was one set of numbers, and they were achieved and damn! -- no world peace. Actually, I don't believe the specified numbers were ever achieved on the sustained basis necessary to usher in world peace. The Taste of Utopia course in '83, for example, which did hit the prescribed numbers, lasted only three weeks. The solution was obvious. Not enough butt-bouncers, so the magic number was raised. And achieved. Not achieved, actually. And still nothing happened, world-peace-wise. Actually, quite a few very interesting things happened world-peace-wise back when the numbers were high--the fall of the Berlin Wall, for example. Could have been just coincidence, of course, but a number of promising events took place around the world during this period that took analysts by surprise and for which they had trouble finding an explanation. The interesting thing is how hard non-TMers have worked to attempt to debunk the various studies that have been done on the positive effects of the big World Peace Assemblies. One might almost wonder if *they* were the ones wrestling with cognitive dissonance.
[FairfieldLife] Re: To Vaj- The Magical Puja Placebo
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, whynotnow7 whynotnow7@... wrote: Hi responses below: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, whynotnow7 whynotnow7@ wrote: Dude, you lost me... Which implies you were once found. ha. My playfulness is simply pointing to other options. Life is so magnificently full of joy and wonder, of humor in every breath and vista, cascading insights, thankfulness, gratefulness (and great-fullness), music art, color, symphonies of sound, a huge Hi Def intense cinematic masterpiece ever playing, silence, and Vastness. **Yep, inconceivably amazing. You and others sometimes appear to (operative concept appears to me) to thrill on a sparse and spartan diet of prickly thorns, dissention, judgments, smart and witty smack downs, creating boundaries and divisions, differentiating your selves into small boxes. The universe is a great mirror -- what you see is what you are. **So...focusing on something and dividing it into more discrete elements necessarily means that I lose myself in it and as a result the infinite nature of the subject and object are lost? Generally when a conversations implies or starts So what you (are trying to say) saying is ... and then words get put in ones mouth. Above is an example. For some context -- as to my style, I qualified my statement by appears to me. Generally, no one can know what is going on inside another's head. One of the things that has longed intrigued me about FFL is that some (excerpts of posts) strike me with wonder. While some may be of he large sense of wonder, often it is a more micro wonder -- somethings strikes me a new or a different wrinkle on things. I sometimes am struck by what specifically is in that dissonant chord that catches my attention. That dissonance may be simply an artifact of my not fully getting where the person is coming from, their tone, their degree of frivolity and playfulness, the noise inside their heads. Or it may be a subtle point, or POV, that I had not been aware of before. Sometimes it appears to be a cognitive bias and leap of logic, on my part or theirs, that takes some time to unravel. I find, for me, unraveling such is probably like what others gain in doing a cross-word puzzle. it can be a fun little puzzle. Usually not earthshaking in importance in itself (though, over time, collectively, it can help me to reflect upon, refine and reshape inner POVs and frameworks. Often my posts are self-explorations attempting to unfold the essence and context of that dissonance. And to better understand whats inside another's head. The avenue may be analytical, humorous (to me) and/or even silly. Since often a background question for me is whether the person is making a serious point, or a silly flippant one, by my sometimes responding in silly ways -- responding in kind to the (apparent) joke and keeping the banter banter alive, playful parrying to use Ray's term, I can a times better draw out the posters meaning. Explaining quips, as i did yesterday, I find is often not a very productive route. The quip are either understood or not in their own context. You commented that you were not getting what I was saying. So be it. The points may have no value to you. They may be lame, or totally off base. So be it. They were helpful to me, if even first draft one round-considered, quick quips in understanding the dissonance they attempted to address. Sometimes the dissonance appears to me to be a boundary that I do not share with a poster. My sometimes quirky responses and quips are at times my way of looking at it, tossing an alternative POV into the ring. Such is often helpful to me to better understand the nature of that boundary. If another finds it of value, positive or negative, it can at times promote dialogue and mutual understanding. And its a two ways street. If I am off base, I seek to resolve that. The foundation of it all is a willingness and inclination to explore -- and not to prove a particular POV as correct or better. Nor to diminish the other. That is what I am hearing. Again, what you are hearing is a key operative word -- as it is also for me. That is not my perspective. As much as I differentiate stuff, I don't change size, nor does anyone I may remark about. Infinity remains intact. We are not coming from the same space. Some of your words (the totality of them over time) are not things that would (usually) come out of me. They simply don't resonate with me. I do find some harsh. That may be my limitation. I do find that ol' dissonance sense in that -- and to me its fun and informative to explore. (And to state the obvious, but a sense that appears lost some days on FFL, the fact that we come from different spaces is neither surprising, critically comparative or judgmental. Its interestingly
[FairfieldLife] Enjoy your life and be happy...
Enjoy your life and be happy... http://blissanonymous.blogspot.com/2009/07/enjoy-your-life-and-be-happy\ .html [http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_0j2GklmsJbM/SmXoskAF3fI/AhU/ZKitmn8gK\ X8/s320/!cid_720ACE572C2941DFA83F0BEB008CB1FC%40Margotsacer.jpg] http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_0j2GklmsJbM/SmXoskAF3fI/AhU/ZKitmn8gK\ X8/s1600-h/!cid_720ace572c2941dfa83f0beb008cb...@margotsacer.jpg Enjoy your life and be happy. Being happy is of the utmost importance. Success in anything is through happiness. More support of nature comes from being happy. Under all circumstances be happy, even if you have to force it a bit to change some long standing habits. Just think of any negativity that comes to you as a raindrop falling into the ocean of your bliss. You may not always have an ocean of bliss, but think that way anyway and it will help it come. Doubting is not blissful and does not create happiness. Be happy, healthy, and let all that love flow through your heart.
[FairfieldLife] Re: When Prophecy Fails
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@... wrote: Do you (turquoiseb) think the indoctrination and group behaviour patterns we see in various movements is entirely deliberate, or can be perhaps a more subtle, unconscious effect, with the result that believers become unaware of the cognitive dissonance? I believe that the behaviors of changing one's core beliefs to suit the way things turn out, as opposed to the prophecies, is indeed a way for them to become unaware of the cognitive disson- ance. Out of sight, out of mind. If they can find a way to pretend that their beliefs were never wrong (by...uh...changing those beliefs without admitting to themselves or others that the beliefs have changed), then they don't ever have to deal with cognitive dissonance. And that's good, because for these kinds of people cognitive dissonance is...uh...upsetting. As for whether this is a deliberate pattern of indoctrination or the natural state of being a True Believer, I'd guess that it's a little bit of both. If the powers that be in a True Believer organ- ization announce or promote the belief change, it's probably a form of indoctrination, and an attempt to hold onto the believers despite the leaders' predictions or teachings having been revealed as bunkum. However, I would imagine that there are many True Believers who are far removed from any organization per se, and they might gravitate towards belief change on their own, as an intuitive way to avoid cognitive dissonance. As an example, I have always had difficulty suppressing cognitive dissonance, and yet, being with a group having a coherent belief does have an effect to stun independence of expression which is sometimes difficult to overcome. I like the phrase stun independence of expression. That's pretty much it. I would agree with you that the group phenomenon and the support of the group have a lot to do with how groups react to their beliefs being proved to be bunkum. To True Believers, it's not really that important how the outside world perceives them, because they're used to being laughed at by them, and considering that laughter a reinforcement of their specialness and uniqueness. What they cannot allow is for the group itself to lose faith or abandon them. The need to belong and to gain emotional support from the group one belongs to is never to be discounted. We see on forums, where individuals are basically free of those kinds of group dynamics... Uh, I'm gonna have to disagree with this assumption. ...a much wider range of opinion and beliefs being expressed. While there may be a wider range of opinions expressed on Internet forums, there is *also* grouping, and the con- scious attempt to gather those of like mind into groups. Just look at the numerous attempts on this forum (FFL) to try to portray a criticism of one person who practices TM into an attack against all TMers. That's an attempt to form a group, and use it for their own purposes. It also seems to me that 'spiritual development,' which leads to independence of mind and thinking, almost always begins for most people in an environment that has these group effects in suppressing cognitive dissonance. In other words, one is in an environment whose purpose is to wake up, get enlightened, or become some kind of more whole human being, practicing techniques like meditation whose function is to facilitate this process, and yet the intellectual and behavioural context of this environment works to subdue progress along these lines. I'm not sure I follow what you're trying to say here. I would say that most spiritual seekers do tend to start in group environments, in which the group dynamic is used to suppress doubts and cognitive dissonance. This is pretty much the dynamic of most beginner spiritual organizations. Later on, some organizations allow seekers to expand beyond this overly-protective group dynamic and do some thinking of their own. Often this actually causes a schism within the org, as some of the seekers *like* thinking for themselves and grav- itate to the newer, freer form of group dynamic, while others *don't like it at all*, and freak out and form a schism group that is actually more suppressive than the original one. Bottom line for me is predilection. Some like to think, and to think for themselves, and some don't, and prefer having a group to think for them, or to tell them how to think. There is probably a place for both in this world, but at the same time there is place for me in only one of them. I like thinking for myself, even if that causes me to exper- ience cognitive dissonance from time to time. *Especially* if it causes me to experience cognitive dissonance from time to time. :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: Being a big fan of the book When Prophecy Fails, I love days like today, when True Believers all over the world awaken to find
[FairfieldLife] Re: To Vaj- The Magical Puja Placebo
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray1 steve.sundur@... wrote: That's not my take. Tart is meeting parry with parry. That is the sense of it. My posts are generally playful. Playful parry to use your term (however, not parry in the sense of a competition, but rather to banter about, have fun in the process, not whether one's initial point and POV remains intact at the end or some false sense of winning or demeaning the other (smackdown)). When someone throws out what I find to be a silly statement, I assume they are good naturedly doing so, in self-deprication, in jest, with some irony, comraderic ribbing -- generally having some fun. So I may test the waters in the sense and spirit of OK, I'll play. And I take up the premise, maybe invert it, twist it a bit in ways that humor me, and toss it back. When non-playful, perhaps fire-filled retorts return, it is at least clarifying -- their comment was actually serious. (!!??) However, FFL has over time become quite the serious place at times. Such throwbacks appear at times to illicit much fire and flames. Well fireworks are always an interesting event to witness -- human such and the celebrational kind. I think it's an appropiate response. I am often perplexed by Tart's perspectives, but who cares. Often my comments are quick initial attempts to unravel and understand some irony or perceived dissonant chord in posts. Thats not a judgemental or critical quest, but one of towards understanding. I realize some quips may be obscure -- but those often can be the best kind when occaisionally someone else gets it -- and responds in kind -- sometimes cascading into a nice exchange of views and ideas. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: Interesting how all that wonderful joy and wonder and humor and Vastness etc. transmutes so quickly into snark when it's challenged. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_reply@ wrote: I am hoping to one day mature so that I can then project massive hate, fear, ugliness, dissention, divisions, greed, envy and violent inner wars on others and everything, like real men do. Until then ... --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Yogi raviyogi@ wrote: I do enjoy your constant projections of peace, happiness and love on to others, I'm sure you make your heroes Gandhi, MLK and the Dalai Lama proud of you !!! Keep it up !!! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_reply@ wrote: For your sake, I hope those are not the only two options or channels to your perception. Regardless, enjoy whatever you see. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Yogi raviyogi@ wrote: Tartbrain - Either you are highly evolved or projecting lot of infantile pain. In the absence of any indications of the former I have always strongly suspected the latter. My prayers and sympathies are with you. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, whynotnow7 whynotnow7@ wrote: Dude, you lost me... Which implies you were once found. ha. My playfulness is simply pointing to other options. Life is so magnificently full of joy and wonder, of humor in every breath and vista, cascading insights, thankfulness, gratefulness (and great-fullness), music art, color, symphonies of sound, a huge Hi Def intense cinematic masterpiece ever playing, silence, and Vastness. You and others sometimes appear to (operative concept appears to me) to thrill on a sparse and spartan diet of prickly thorns, dissention, judgments, smart and witty smack downs, creating boundaries and divisions, differentiating your selves into small boxes. The universe is a great mirror -- what you see is what you are. There is a huge wild fantastic party ever ongoing in the universe. You seem not to care to join in the celebration. Thats not a judgement on you or others -- maybe you have something I can't even dream of. Its just pointing to something else. Take it or leave it. The choice is open to everyone. (And maybe I will wise up and someday revel in your harsher, differentiated View of things. I don't know. For now, I am happy in my retarded unsophisticated, undifferentiated living the joy of life.) A far as defending others, hardly. I am not interested in defending myself, much less others. However, take this morning, for example, I have had several nice, insightful (for me) exchanges with Turq. What am I to denounce or defend? In the past I have had nice exchanges with you. And with Vaj, Empty Bill, Nabs, Peter, and any number of others. Do I really need to join some invisible sides and denounce others? Simply because others see some flaws in others that are either invisible to me, or
[FairfieldLife] Re: When Prophecy Fails
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: Being a big fan of the book When Prophecy Fails, snip This should be a familiar pattern to everyone who has followed the ever-changing magic numbers necessary for TMSP butt-bouncers to bring about world peace. First it was one set of numbers, and they were achieved and damn! -- no world peace. Actually, I don't believe the specified numbers were ever achieved on the sustained basis necessary to usher in world peace. The Taste of Utopia course in '83, for example, which did hit the prescribed numbers, lasted only three weeks. The solution was obvious. Not enough butt-bouncers, so the magic number was raised. And achieved. Not achieved, actually. And still nothing happened, world-peace-wise. Actually, quite a few very interesting things happened world-peace-wise back when the numbers were high--the fall of the Berlin Wall, for example. Could have been just coincidence, of course, but a number of promising events took place around the world during this period that took analysts by surprise and for which they had trouble finding an explanation. The interesting thing is how hard non-TMers have worked to attempt to debunk the various studies that have been done on the positive effects of the big World Peace Assemblies. One might almost wonder if *they* were the ones wrestling with cognitive dissonance. The Maharishi effect theory certainly would give an experience of cognitive dissonance to the typical scientists working in fields related to this 'effect' because it does not fit into the current understandings. Research on meditation (not just TM), research on alternative medicine is generally regarded as being poorly designed so the studies are weak. The few better quality studies show fewer positive effects or no positive effects beyond the placebo in these areas. Scientific studies in the TM movement are aimed at advertising, not truth, though this does not mean a study is deliberately falsified to get a good result. There are many ways a researcher can be seduced into massaging his data to get some kind of result, and this may not be conscious manipulation. Incompetent studies are a plague in research areas where metaphysical ideas dominate. I read somewhere (sorry, reference is forgotten) that one researcher asked Orme-Johnson for his raw data on one of his Maharishi effect studies. Orme-Johnson refused him. And I once overheard Orme-Johnson a few years ago refer to this (he was sitting a few seats away down the table at lunch), saying regarding the data, You know what they would do with it. Thus the free flow of information typical of scientific discourse was certainly not happening here. And, indeed, criticism of these studies is a normal part of the scientific process. Many feel they have found serious defects in these studies as they have been published, and have come up with alternative explanations. But if the raw data is kept hidden, it will not be possible to resolve these conflicts related to a specific study one way or another. Because the Maharishi effect theory is so far out of current scientific thinking, a series of really large, well-designed studies, preferably by non-meditators would probably be necessary to break the ice, with all the data freely available. If the experiments were successful and positive this would still not explain to the rank-and-file scientists how it worked because the explanation of the 'unified field' would go way beyond current science, which has yet to verify standard quantum mechanics, but it would demonstrate the effect to the degree that other researchers would likely finally think there was some reality to the idea, and take the time to study it. A few interesting positive events happening during the '83 course probably could not be shown to be causally related, and just the same for the great increase in murders during the Washington course some years later. So scientifically, the matter is undecided, but so far only movement scientists think the effect is real, and have thus failed to convince their peers.
[FairfieldLife] Re: When Prophecy Fails
Judy: Actually, quite a few very interesting things happened world-peace-wise back when the numbers were high--the fall of the Berlin Wall, for example. Could have been just coincidence, of course, but a number of promising events took place around the world during this period that took analysts by surprise and for which they had trouble finding an explanation. It is more than just that it COULD have been coincidence. No causality was proven. It was just asserted. What they attempted to prove with statistical maneuvering is simultaneity. But they claim much more because people get confused about the difference between the two. The interesting thing is how hard non-TMers have worked to attempt to debunk the various studies that have been done on the positive effects of the big World Peace Assemblies. One might almost wonder if *they* were the ones wrestling with cognitive dissonance. It takes nothing to debunk this type of claim. The claimed benefit is too vague, so of course some better things happened during any period of time. It is a classic case of preying on our lack of intuition dealing with statistical matters. To see through this attempt at grandiose claims isn't due to cognitive dissonance. It is due to our familiarity with the nature of such bloated claims about the magical special power of a small group of people. It is on the same level of a group of people praying for someone they don't know or who doesn't know they are being prayed for. If you shift from the claims and the world back to the believer we know a lot about the nature of such beliefs. We have many groups to study and we have learned a lot about them in the last few decades. Humans have this cognitive flaw that they find it pretty easy to believe claims about their special superiority. Especially today when it is couched in sciency sounding language. We also know how stubborn people get once they have latched onto such a belief. Panaceas for the the whole wide world! All problems solved with NO effort! And WE are the ones solving all the problems by doing NOTHING! I was born at night, but it wasn't last night. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: Being a big fan of the book When Prophecy Fails, I love days like today, when True Believers all over the world awaken to find not the Rapture they were hoping and praying for So how many days like today have you experienced, and when was the most recent before this one? Also, just for the record, no believers awakened this morning to find that the Rapture had not occurred. They knew it before they went to bed last night. (Editorial note: Writerly flourishes tend to be a lot more effective when they don't contradict the known facts. If they do, readers quickly realize you're writing for yourself, not for them, and it lessens their investment in whatever point you wanted to make.) snip This should be a familiar pattern to everyone who has followed the ever-changing magic numbers necessary for TMSP butt-bouncers to bring about world peace. First it was one set of numbers, and they were achieved and damn! -- no world peace. Actually, I don't believe the specified numbers were ever achieved on the sustained basis necessary to usher in world peace. The Taste of Utopia course in '83, for example, which did hit the prescribed numbers, lasted only three weeks. The solution was obvious. Not enough butt-bouncers, so the magic number was raised. And achieved. Not achieved, actually. And still nothing happened, world-peace-wise. Actually, quite a few very interesting things happened world-peace-wise back when the numbers were high--the fall of the Berlin Wall, for example. Could have been just coincidence, of course, but a number of promising events took place around the world during this period that took analysts by surprise and for which they had trouble finding an explanation. The interesting thing is how hard non-TMers have worked to attempt to debunk the various studies that have been done on the positive effects of the big World Peace Assemblies. One might almost wonder if *they* were the ones wrestling with cognitive dissonance.
[FairfieldLife] Re: When Prophecy Fails
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: snip While there may be a wider range of opinions expressed on Internet forums, there is *also* grouping, and the con- scious attempt to gather those of like mind into groups. Just look at the numerous attempts on this forum (FFL) to try to portray a criticism of one person who practices TM into an attack against all TMers. That's an attempt to form a group, and use it for their own purposes. Not clear what attempts you're referring to, but your attempt above to portray them as an attempt to form a group is itself an attempt to form a group and use it for your own purposes. And if there was ever anyone here who attempted to use criticism of one person who practices TM to attack all TMers, it would be you. Is this the kind of person you want to become? (pointing at the TMer you've just criticized). Then by all means learn TM! That's one of your stock approaches, seen many times on FFL. Thing is, that multiple people express the same perceptions doesn't mean they form a group except in an ad hoc sense. And I don't see many people here buying into your conspiracy theorizing about conscious attempts to gather people with similar perceptions into groups. It seems like one more instance of your projecting your own conscious attempts to do so onto those you don't like, to create an us vs. them mentality.
[FairfieldLife] Re: When Prophecy Fails
turquoiseb: Being a big fan of the book When Prophecy Fails, I love days like today, when True Believers all over the world awaken to find not the Rapture they were hoping and praying for (not to mention the condemnation into eternal hellfire of those who had been making fun of them *for* hoping and praying for the end of the world)... So, you've given up on your 'Global Warming' myth! The world is not coming to an end - you seem kind of disappointed that the 'conspiracy' didn't work. Go figure. 'Global Warming: Doomsday Called Off' Prison Planet: http://www.prisonplanet.com/archives/global_warming/index.htm P.S. Take off the word-wrap. LoL!
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: When Prophecy Fails
On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 11:02 AM, authfriend jst...@panix.com wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: Being a big fan of the book When Prophecy Fails, I love days like today, when True Believers all over the world awaken to find not the Rapture they were hoping and praying for So how many days like today have you experienced, and when was the most recent before this one? Also, just for the record, no believers awakened this morning to find that the Rapture had not occurred. They knew it before they went to bed last night. The rapture did occur for one of us, and I'm a non-believer. When I got to Heaven I asked what the Wi-Fi was like there. I was told there was no Wi-Fi. I asked how God expected me to VPN into work. No VPN. How was I supposed to read FFL? FFL is in the other place, I was told. I demanded to be returned and I was. I'm back. Here once again to watch the Punch and Judy show.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Enjoy your life and be happy...
On 05/22/2011 08:25 AM, nablusoss1008 wrote: Enjoy your life and be happy... http://blissanonymous.blogspot.com/2009/07/enjoy-your-life-and-be-happy\ .html [http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_0j2GklmsJbM/SmXoskAF3fI/AhU/ZKitmn8gK\ X8/s320/!cid_720ACE572C2941DFA83F0BEB008CB1FC%40Margotsacer.jpg] http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_0j2GklmsJbM/SmXoskAF3fI/AhU/ZKitmn8gK\ X8/s1600-h/!cid_720ace572c2941dfa83f0beb008cb...@margotsacer.jpg Enjoy your life and be happy. Being happy is of the utmost importance. Success in anything is through happiness. More support of nature comes from being happy. Under all circumstances be happy, even if you have to force it a bit to change some long standing habits. Just think of any negativity that comes to you as a raindrop falling into the ocean of your bliss. You may not always have an ocean of bliss, but think that way anyway and it will help it come. Doubting is not blissful and does not create happiness. Be happy, healthy, and let all that love flow through your heart. So ignorance *is* bliss? :-D
Re: [FairfieldLife] Sunday's Natural Law Lesson: The Sun!
Some people just have too much *free* time! Do another round Buck, it'll keep you out of trouble. From: Buck dhamiltony...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, May 22, 2011 5:20:10 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Sunday's Natural Law Lesson: The Sun! Dear FFL'ers; Sunday, it's Sunday morning on FFL. The Sun is up! Here is this morning's Natural Law Lesson, curtsey of the Sun! Turn up yo speakers and worship the Sun! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=me06I9GDM_k Jai Guru Dev, -Buck in FF
Re: [FairfieldLife] #5# Think about this - Bruno Barbosa
You *do* understand that religion is a mind control technique invented to keep the masses under control through guilt? There is no magical man in the sky who micromanages everything. I now return you to your regularly scheduled reality. :-D On 05/21/2011 01:42 PM, Paulo Barbosa wrote: Think About It - Bruno Barbosa Weekly Column May 21, 2011 I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. (Philippians 4:13) All is impossible when you give up ... but when we believe in our dreams, the impossible becomes just another step forward. Just walk. (Bruno Barbosa) I know we go through problems and difficulties in our lives. They, often, prevent us of realizing our dreams. Do not look sideways nor backwards. the past a lot of time, want to blame us for something. Believe in your dreams, look ahead and keep walking, even if there are many obstacles. Remember, we have a God who removes all of them. He will give us victory. Trust in God and walk into your purposes! Bruno Barbosa To Reflect Ministry para-refle...@hotmail.com Tudo é impossível quando se desiste... mas quando acreditamos nos nossos sonhos o impossível se torna somente mais um passo a frente. Apenas caminhe. (Bruno Barbosa) Sei que todos nós passamos por problemas e grandes dificuldades em nossas vidas, muitas das vezes impedindo-nos de realizar nossos sonhos. Não olhe para os lados e muito menos para trás, o passado quase sempre quer nos acusar de algo. Acredite nos seus sonhos, olhe sempre para frente e continue caminhando, mesmo que existam inúmeros obstáculos. Lembre-se que nós temos um Deus que remove todos eles e vai nos dar a vitória. Confie sempre em Deus e apenas caminhe para sua conquista! Bruno Barbosa Ministério Para Refletir para-refle...@hotmail.com
[FairfieldLife] Re: When Prophecy Fails
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@... wrote: It is more than just that it COULD have been coincidence. No causality was proven. It was just asserted. What they attempted to prove with statistical maneuvering is simultaneity. But they claim much more because people get confused about the difference between the two. The interesting thing is how hard non-TMers have worked to attempt to debunk the various studies that have been done on the positive effects of the big World Peace Assemblies. One might almost wonder if *they* were the ones wrestling with cognitive dissonance. It takes nothing to debunk this type of claim. The claimed benefit is too vague, so of course some better things happened during any period of time. It is a classic case of preying on our lack of intuition dealing with statistical matters. I am generally in accord with what you say and your perspective. We have shared thoughts before on the trap of seeing causality from correlation. And seeing correlations in random events. (An interesting exercise is to generate series of random numbers, plot them out and repeated recalc them -- and see the totally random series assume all sorts of (unreal) patterns and trends inside ones head. However, primary underlying drivers of historical trends and dynamics (a la rise and fall of civilizations and cultures), world and macro economic events are nebulous at best. No particular model works well on its own. Together, weaving together a number of models of how things work, may (or may not) bear some fruit. And all is next to impossible to establish within hard, cold statistical methods. (And such methods are hardly perfect, the field of econometrics is the history of finding serious flaws in past methods and fixing them -- with no assurance that the current methods don't themselves have significant biases left within them.) And as we have discussed, there are many avenues by which to grok things. Art, film literature, poetry, music for example. Alternative avenues of understanding that are generally outside of hard statistical analysis. However, insights from such can lead to effective prediction at times (which generally is not statistically established -- but when 2-3 or more such predictions work within ones life using such methods, it may be coincidence -- but it does make one a bit more sensitive to the possibility that there may be something to it.) When the Berlin Wall / Eastern Europe fell, it was a holy shit moment for me. As in the wonder of it. My past biases surely influenced my reaction that maybe the old man was right, I never expected to see the iron curtain fall in my lifetime, and here it is.) Hardly science, but still, interesting speculation. What was slightly more scientific for me was the predictions that (which fell from my head at the time) -- extrapolating this forward (something along the lines of end of cold economy, refocusing on those wasted resources to things of economic and social value, increasing coherence (assuming coherence had anything to do with the fall of the Iron Curtain) would leave to a booming stock market in the 90's. I casually made such a prediction in 89 or so, amongst peers, and forgot about it. 8 or so years later, one of these colleagues reminded me of the prediction -- and he said he was all ears since the thought had turned out to be right (again all possibly coincidentally). However, the test of any theory is can it be used to make accurate predictions. making a few such accurate predictions does not establish the model as valid -- but it is still in the running -- in contrast to a series of false predictions which would tend to discredit the model. Most of what we decide to do in our lives is based on very imperfect models of causality and prediction. Yet, we take stabs in the dark and muddle forward. Taking MMY's later and last predictions / visions of future coherence, and the bumpy transitional ride towards it: things are unfolding, in my mind, along the lines that I generally would have expected from his model and predictions. I see a path of transition that is unfolding in predictable ways -- for me and points to possible directions of future change. And to me these are as valid as many other non-established (statistically) stakes in the ground that I make everyday about life and world events. YMMV
[FairfieldLife] Re: When Prophecy Fails
Oh shit...how could *I* have been such a dweeb as to believe in this crap?... Xenophaneros Anartaxius: Do you (turquoiseb) think the indoctrination and group behaviour patterns we see in various movements is entirely deliberate...? In the case of the 'TB', I'd say that his joining the Lenz cult was deliberate, since by that time he had been in the Marshy cult for at least a dozen years and supposedly knew a lot about cultic behavior. Apparently the TB had some TMO status as a regional coordinator. To say that Turq was indoctrinated by Lenz is an understatement! Brainwashed would be a better term for what happened to the TB! I mean, going from the Marshy cult to the Rama cult is a pretty 'dweeb' thing to do! Go figure. Lenz parlayed his knowledge of Hinduism and Buddhism into a cult. In the early 1980s he started calling himself after Rama, an avatar of the Hindu deity Vishnu. He started giving seminars in 1982 in Malibu, California. Eventually, thousands of people would pay as much as $5,000 per seminar to be enlightened by this self-proclaimed guru, psychic, and miracle worker... http://www.skepdic.com/rama.html
[FairfieldLife] Movie: Even the Rain
Great film and available on Netflix WI. In this provocative film-within-a-film, director Sebastián (Gael García Bernal) heads to Cochabamba, Bolivia, to shoot a film about Christopher Columbus's trespasses in the New World, only to find the locals protesting present-day exploitation of the poor. Sebastián is sympathetic to the cause, but realities collide when lead actor Daniel (Juan Carlos Aduviri), cast as a rebel against the Spanish, becomes a key figure in the current demonstrations. http://movies.netflix.com/WiMovie/Even_the_Rain/70154110 http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1422032/ I gave it 5 stars. Very much a movie for our times.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Supreme Court OKs warrantless searches
On 05/21/2011 01:46 PM, raunchydog wrote: SCOTUS ruled 8 to 1 that law enforcement officers can break into your house if they suspect you have illegal drugs and they hear you flushing shit down the toilet. It doesn't matter they broke down your door and trashed your house because they went to the wrong address, you'll pay for damages and shut up about it. If you get pissed off and call them Nazi pigs, be prepared to spread eagle for an enhanced pat down because there's no habeas corpus for you, John Q Public. By the way, Congress will renew the Patriot Act for four more years of sneak and peek. The government can confiscate your property without a warrant or plant surveillance devices in your home or car whenever or for whatever reason they want. Kiss your Bill of Rights goodbye. http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2015072154_scotus17.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-w-whitehead/renewing-patriot-act_b_862195.html It is the responsibility of the patriot to protect his country from its government. -- Thomas Paine The people really need to rise up and put down this bullshit and arrest and try the criminals who are causing this atrocity. The country has really been given over to thugs. No time for dreaming that some magical man in the sky is going to solve this problem. Of course its baseball season so Americans will want to wait until that is over and then it will be football season. (Maybe the stupid fucks who find baseball and dancing with stars more important that their civil liberties deserve to be crushed. The rest of us don't).
[FairfieldLife] Re: When Prophecy Fails
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ wrote: We see on forums, where individuals are basically free of those kinds of group dynamics... Uh, I'm gonna have to disagree with this assumption. I think you are right with this comment. While on a forum one is more likely to be free from the effects of individual contact, there is grouping, but the dynamics are a bit different even if influenced by those who are in groups that have direct contact with one another. Here, for example, I do not personally know people on this forum (or if I do, I do not know their online moniker), though I believe I met Rick Archer once. Comment revised, unless you wish to take another stab at it. ...a much wider range of opinion and beliefs being expressed. While there may be a wider range of opinions expressed on Internet forums, there is *also* grouping, and the con- scious attempt to gather those of like mind into groups. Just look at the numerous attempts on this forum (FFL) to try to portray a criticism of one person who practices TM into an attack against all TMers. That's an attempt to form a group, and use it for their own purposes.
[FairfieldLife] Re: When Prophecy Fails
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@... wrote: snip I read somewhere (sorry, reference is forgotten) that one researcher asked Orme-Johnson for his raw data on one of his Maharishi effect studies. Orme-Johnson refused him. And I once overheard Orme-Johnson a few years ago refer to this (he was sitting a few seats away down the table at lunch), saying regarding the data, You know what they would do with it. Thus the free flow of information typical of scientific discourse was certainly not happening here. As I understand what happened, the researcher (Barry Markovsky) had portrayed himself to O-J et al. as having a positive interest in what they were doing--to be, at the least, open- minded, if not leaning toward acceptance. They spent quite a bit of time with him and agreed to show him their raw data. Before they did, however, he gave an interview to some radio station or newspaper that made it crystal clear that he had never thought any of it was anything but a crock, and he apparently misrepresented their approach and the ME theory itself. So they had good cause after that not to trust him and to anticipate that he might well misrepresent anything else they gave him. Incidentally, it wasn't the raw data; that had been taken from the public record. It was, I gather, how they had plugged that data into their statistical formulas. The formulas were pretty arcane, albeit accepted in the field, but because they were largely incomprehensible to those not steeped in statistical methodology, it would have been easy to misrepresent what they were doing. And, indeed, criticism of these studies is a normal part of the scientific process. Many feel they have found serious defects in these studies as they have been published, and have come up with alternative explanations. But if the raw data is kept hidden, it will not be possible to resolve these conflicts related to a specific study one way or another. Again, raw data per se isn't the issue, given that the raw data of most of these studies is taken from the public record (e.g., FBI crime reports). Not being a statistician, I'm not sure what it was specifically that Markovsky wanted to see, what he expected to find (if he even had anything particular in mind), or how whatever he did manage to find would have bolstered his attempt to debunk the study. It does seem to me in this case O-J et al. had good reason to withhold it. I don't know if any other researchers have asked for additional data, or if they have, whether their requests have been granted. Be interesting to find out. Because the Maharishi effect theory is so far out of current scientific thinking, a series of really large, well-designed studies, preferably by non-meditators would probably be necessary to break the ice, with all the data freely available. Frankly, I'm *extremely* dubious that, if the ME exists, it will ever be susceptible to scientific verification. There are just too many variables and unknowns. If the experiments were successful and positive this would still not explain to the rank-and-file scientists how it worked because the explanation of the 'unified field' would go way beyond current science, which has yet to verify standard quantum mechanics, It's my understanding that quantum mechanics has been verified to a greater extent than any other scientific hypothesis. They do know it *works*, in other words, just not *how*. but it would demonstrate the effect to the degree that other researchers would likely finally think there was some reality to the idea, and take the time to study it. Again, I'm dubious. Even if you established groups with a sufficient number of participants and kept them in place on a long-term basis, and after, say, a couple of decades permanent world peace were achieved, the ME still wouldn't get the credit except among believers. A few interesting positive events happening during the '83 course probably could not be shown to be causally related, and just the same for the great increase in murders during the Washington course some years later. The researchers had a really good explanation for that apparent anomaly. A great deal more of it was made by the skeptics than was warranted. So scientifically, the matter is undecided, but so far only movement scientists think the effect is real, and have thus failed to convince their peers. No question.
[FairfieldLife] Re: #5# Think about this - Bruno Barbosa
Bhairitu: You *do* understand that religion is a mind control technique invented to keep the masses under control through guilt...? You sound pretty guilty - of joining a religion - and you're not elite enough from being considered part of the masses! It sounds like you're the one that doesn't understand religious mind control! The Tamil Tigers use 'mind control' techniques, which are pervasive in that part of South Asia. So, what happens to all the money your guru sends over to India?
[FairfieldLife] Re: When Prophecy Fails
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@... wrote: Judy: Actually, quite a few very interesting things happened world-peace-wise back when the numbers were high--the fall of the Berlin Wall, for example. Could have been just coincidence, of course, but a number of promising events took place around the world during this period that took analysts by surprise and for which they had trouble finding an explanation. It is more than just that it COULD have been coincidence. No causality was proven. It was just asserted. What they attempted to prove with statistical maneuvering is simultaneity. I don't think they had to prove simultaneity, by statistical maneuvering or otherwise. Of course causality is a much tougher nut to crack. But see, I was responding to Barry's claim that still nothing happened world-peace-wise. That's false. And even in the absence of hard evidence of causality, the fact that many positive things *did* happen world-peace-wise during those years means it wasn't unreasonable for believers to be encouraged. I wasn't talking about any specific study of a specific course, BTW, just the general trends over some years when numbers were high. But they claim much more because people get confused about the difference between the two. The interesting thing is how hard non-TMers have worked to attempt to debunk the various studies that have been done on the positive effects of the big World Peace Assemblies. One might almost wonder if *they* were the ones wrestling with cognitive dissonance. It takes nothing to debunk this type of claim. Better not tell Barry Markovsky that. He and his colleague worked for *years* to get their debunking of the Jerusalem study published. The claimed benefit is too vague, so of course some better things happened during any period of time. The things I'm referring to were unexpected, and as I said, analysts had difficulty explaining them. It was a cluster of positive events that were anything but of course. No, that proves zilch, but it was a basis for continuing the approach. Contrary to Barry's claim, there was no cognitive dissonance to be resolved at that point. It is a classic case of preying on our lack of intuition dealing with statistical matters. To see through this attempt at grandiose claims isn't due to cognitive dissonance. It is due to our familiarity with the nature of such bloated claims about the magical special power of a small group of people. But that doesn't constitute seeing through. It constitutes only a basis for skepticism. And I wasn't *claiming* the debunking attempts were due to a struggle with cognitive dissonance, just pointing out that to believers, that's what it looks like. If-- hypothetically--the ME were at some point to be shown to be valid, it would be hard not to see the debunkers as having been wrestling with cognitive dissonance. It is on the same level of a group of people praying for someone they don't know or who doesn't know they are being prayed for. Not quite. As I understand it, that claim has actually been DISproved. If you shift from the claims and the world back to the believer we know a lot about the nature of such beliefs. Yeah, yeah, we know. But as they say in investment prospectuses, past performance is no guarantee of future results. We have many groups to study and we have learned a lot about them in the last few decades. Humans have this cognitive flaw that they find it pretty easy to believe claims about their special superiority. Especially today when it is couched in sciency sounding language. We also know how stubborn people get once they have latched onto such a belief. Panaceas for the the whole wide world! All problems solved with NO effort! And WE are the ones solving all the problems by doing NOTHING! I was born at night, but it wasn't last night. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: Being a big fan of the book When Prophecy Fails, I love days like today, when True Believers all over the world awaken to find not the Rapture they were hoping and praying for So how many days like today have you experienced, and when was the most recent before this one? Also, just for the record, no believers awakened this morning to find that the Rapture had not occurred. They knew it before they went to bed last night. (Editorial note: Writerly flourishes tend to be a lot more effective when they don't contradict the known facts. If they do, readers quickly realize you're writing for yourself, not for them, and it lessens their investment in whatever point you wanted to make.) snip This should be a familiar pattern to everyone who has followed the ever-changing magic numbers necessary for TMSP butt-bouncers to bring about
[FairfieldLife] Re: When Prophecy Fails
turquoiseb: Just look at the numerous attempts on this forum (FFL) to try to portray a criticism of one person who practices TM into an attack against all TMers. That's an attempt to form a group, and use it for their own purposes... So, a TMer is your attempt at starting a (FFL) group so you can use it for your own purposes? LoL! What, exactly, is a TMer? Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: #5# Think about this - Bruno Barbosa
On 05/22/2011 10:16 AM, WillyTex wrote: Bhairitu: You *do* understand that religion is a mind control technique invented to keep the masses under control through guilt...? As usual you make no sense. You sound pretty guilty - of joining a religion - and you're not elite enough from being considered part of the masses! It sounds like you're the one that doesn't understand religious mind control! What religion would that be? I've never joined any religion. Are you saying TM is a religion? The Tamil Tigers use 'mind control' techniques, which are pervasive in that part of South Asia. What do the Tamil Tigers have to do with anything? So, what happens to all the money your guru sends over to India? What money? He lives in the Bay Area. It takes about all his money to live here. You need some smarts, Willy. Go figure.
[FairfieldLife] Turq the Ice Man Stuns Netherlands and World through Meditation in Ice Water
Wim Hof, Dutch 'Iceman,' Controls Body Through Meditation http://weirdnews.aol.com/2011/05/22/wim-hof-dutch-iceman-cont_n_865203.html ROTTERDAM, Netherlands -- The sun beams down on a warm Dutch spring morning, and the Iceman's students look wary as they watch him dump bag after bag of ice into the tub of water where they will soon be taking a dip. The plan is to try to overcome the normal human reaction to immersion in freezing slush: gasping for air, shivering uncontrollably, and getting back out again as soon as possible. Instead, under the direction of Iceman Wim Hof, the group of athletes is going to stay in the water for minutes practicing his meditation techniques, seeking possible performance or health benefits. Hof, 52, earned his nickname from feats such as remaining in a tank of ice in Hong Kong for almost 2 hours; swimming half the length of a football field under a sheet of ice in the Arctic; and making the Guinness record books for running a half-marathon barefoot in Finnish snow in deep subzero conditions. He tried to climb Mt. Everest in 2007 wearing only sandals and shorts, but suffered frostbite and turned back at 7,400 meters (24,300 feet) he wants to test the limits of human potential, not die trying. He climbed Mt. Kilimanjaro instead the same way in 2009. Hof tells his students meditation in the cold strengthens mind and body. Some scientists also say ice bath treatments may have circulatory benefits for athletes, or help them recover quicker after training, although this remains controversial. For most people, hypothermia begins shortly after exposure to freezing temperatures without adequate clothing, and it can quickly lead to death once the body's core temperature falls below 90 degrees Fahrenheit (32 degrees Celsius). Hof says he can endure cold so well because he has learned to activate parts of his mind beyond the reach of most people's conscious control, and crank up what he calls his inner thermostat. In one well-documented demonstration in 2008, Hof remained encased in a glass box filled with ice on a New York City street for 71 minutes, at that time a record. Doctors monitoring his vital signs said his body temperature descended gradually to 93.6 degrees as his heart rate rose slowly into the 120s. He didn't shiver.
[FairfieldLife] On Israel - A Proud Day for Obama
-- Obama sticks to commitment to policies that will secure Israel's future, even at the expense of opportunistic attacks and political controversy. Obliquely and with respect to his audience, in his speech to AIPAC today, President Obama also responded to Prime Minister Netanyahu's repeated lies about what President Obama said only the day before. Just as no man is an island, no country can be either. On its present course Israel is on its way to becoming a pariah state, a status in which it cannot indefinitely or even perhaps long survive. Neither the fact that Israel faces a profound cultural animosity among the region's Arab populations nor the bad faith that often greets its actions nor even the anti-Semitism that is sometimes beneath the animus changes this essential fact. The make-up of the 21st century world is simply not compatible with a perpetual military occupation of another people, especially one that crosses a boundary of ethnicity and religion. Only the willfully oblivious can't see that. ~~ Josh Marshall More here: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2011/05/a_proud_day_for_obama.php?ref=fpblg ALSO: Israel's opposition leader, Tzipi Livni, reportedly backs Obama's rhetoric, and she chastised Israeli Prime Minster Benjamin Netanyahu for coming out against the Obama administration: Tzipi Livni, leader of Israel's opposition Kadima party, also backed Mr Obama's two-state solution and accused Mr Netanyahu of putting Israel at risk in order to save his right-wing coalition. The prime minister has violated relations between Israel and the United States, she said, speaking after Mr Obama's speech but before the Oval Office meeting. He has endangered the security of Israel and its power of deterrence. http://thinkprogress.org/2011/05/21/livni-obama-1967/
[FairfieldLife] Re: When Prophecy Fails
Nice reply, information I did not have, or remember. As for quantum mechanics, yes indeed it is the most confirmed theory, but they are still searching for the Higgs boson, and there seem to be hints from various sources, but so far they have not been verified. Especially at CERN where there is sufficient energy to find it, they still have to run tests at specific energies to try to locate it. If they do not find it, there will be trouble. As for testing the ME, it might be easier to try smaller groups in smaller cities, where size and expense of the experiment can be better controlled. Even if successful, there could be other explanations as to why it might work, if the experiments were positive. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@ wrote: snip I read somewhere (sorry, reference is forgotten) that one researcher asked Orme-Johnson for his raw data on one of his Maharishi effect studies. Orme-Johnson refused him. And I once overheard Orme-Johnson a few years ago refer to this (he was sitting a few seats away down the table at lunch), saying regarding the data, You know what they would do with it. Thus the free flow of information typical of scientific discourse was certainly not happening here. As I understand what happened, the researcher (Barry Markovsky) had portrayed himself to O-J et al. as having a positive interest in what they were doing--to be, at the least, open- minded, if not leaning toward acceptance. They spent quite a bit of time with him and agreed to show him their raw data. Before they did, however, he gave an interview to some radio station or newspaper that made it crystal clear that he had never thought any of it was anything but a crock, and he apparently misrepresented their approach and the ME theory itself. So they had good cause after that not to trust him and to anticipate that he might well misrepresent anything else they gave him. Incidentally, it wasn't the raw data; that had been taken from the public record. It was, I gather, how they had plugged that data into their statistical formulas. The formulas were pretty arcane, albeit accepted in the field, but because they were largely incomprehensible to those not steeped in statistical methodology, it would have been easy to misrepresent what they were doing. And, indeed, criticism of these studies is a normal part of the scientific process. Many feel they have found serious defects in these studies as they have been published, and have come up with alternative explanations. But if the raw data is kept hidden, it will not be possible to resolve these conflicts related to a specific study one way or another. Again, raw data per se isn't the issue, given that the raw data of most of these studies is taken from the public record (e.g., FBI crime reports). Not being a statistician, I'm not sure what it was specifically that Markovsky wanted to see, what he expected to find (if he even had anything particular in mind), or how whatever he did manage to find would have bolstered his attempt to debunk the study. It does seem to me in this case O-J et al. had good reason to withhold it. I don't know if any other researchers have asked for additional data, or if they have, whether their requests have been granted. Be interesting to find out. Because the Maharishi effect theory is so far out of current scientific thinking, a series of really large, well-designed studies, preferably by non-meditators would probably be necessary to break the ice, with all the data freely available. Frankly, I'm *extremely* dubious that, if the ME exists, it will ever be susceptible to scientific verification. There are just too many variables and unknowns. If the experiments were successful and positive this would still not explain to the rank-and-file scientists how it worked because the explanation of the 'unified field' would go way beyond current science, which has yet to verify standard quantum mechanics, It's my understanding that quantum mechanics has been verified to a greater extent than any other scientific hypothesis. They do know it *works*, in other words, just not *how*. but it would demonstrate the effect to the degree that other researchers would likely finally think there was some reality to the idea, and take the time to study it. Again, I'm dubious. Even if you established groups with a sufficient number of participants and kept them in place on a long-term basis, and after, say, a couple of decades permanent world peace were achieved, the ME still wouldn't get the credit except among believers. A few interesting positive events happening during the '83 course probably could not be shown to be causally related, and just the same for the great increase in murders during the Washington
[FairfieldLife] Re: Turq the Ice Man Stuns Netherlands and World through Meditation in Ice Water
And at parties I can ice down a keg of beer just by farting on it. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_reply@... wrote: Wim Hof, Dutch 'Iceman,' Controls Body Through Meditation http://weirdnews.aol.com/2011/05/22/wim-hof-dutch-iceman-cont_n_865203.html ROTTERDAM, Netherlands -- The sun beams down on a warm Dutch spring morning, and the Iceman's students look wary as they watch him dump bag after bag of ice into the tub of water where they will soon be taking a dip. The plan is to try to overcome the normal human reaction to immersion in freezing slush: gasping for air, shivering uncontrollably, and getting back out again as soon as possible. Instead, under the direction of Iceman Wim Hof, the group of athletes is going to stay in the water for minutes practicing his meditation techniques, seeking possible performance or health benefits. Hof, 52, earned his nickname from feats such as remaining in a tank of ice in Hong Kong for almost 2 hours; swimming half the length of a football field under a sheet of ice in the Arctic; and making the Guinness record books for running a half-marathon barefoot in Finnish snow in deep subzero conditions. He tried to climb Mt. Everest in 2007 wearing only sandals and shorts, but suffered frostbite and turned back at 7,400 meters (24,300 feet) he wants to test the limits of human potential, not die trying. He climbed Mt. Kilimanjaro instead the same way in 2009. Hof tells his students meditation in the cold strengthens mind and body. Some scientists also say ice bath treatments may have circulatory benefits for athletes, or help them recover quicker after training, although this remains controversial. For most people, hypothermia begins shortly after exposure to freezing temperatures without adequate clothing, and it can quickly lead to death once the body's core temperature falls below 90 degrees Fahrenheit (32 degrees Celsius). Hof says he can endure cold so well because he has learned to activate parts of his mind beyond the reach of most people's conscious control, and crank up what he calls his inner thermostat. In one well-documented demonstration in 2008, Hof remained encased in a glass box filled with ice on a New York City street for 71 minutes, at that time a record. Doctors monitoring his vital signs said his body temperature descended gradually to 93.6 degrees as his heart rate rose slowly into the 120s. He didn't shiver.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Turq the Ice Man Stuns Netherlands and World through Meditation in Ice Water
On 05/22/2011 12:23 PM, tartbrain wrote: Wim Hof, Dutch 'Iceman,' Controls Body Through Meditation http://weirdnews.aol.com/2011/05/22/wim-hof-dutch-iceman-cont_n_865203.html ROTTERDAM, Netherlands -- The sun beams down on a warm Dutch spring morning, and the Iceman's students look wary as they watch him dump bag after bag of ice into the tub of water where they will soon be taking a dip. The plan is to try to overcome the normal human reaction to immersion in freezing slush: gasping for air, shivering uncontrollably, and getting back out again as soon as possible. Instead, under the direction of Iceman Wim Hof, the group of athletes is going to stay in the water for minutes practicing his meditation techniques, seeking possible performance or health benefits. Hof, 52, earned his nickname from feats such as remaining in a tank of ice in Hong Kong for almost 2 hours; swimming half the length of a football field under a sheet of ice in the Arctic; and making the Guinness record books for running a half-marathon barefoot in Finnish snow in deep subzero conditions. He tried to climb Mt. Everest in 2007 wearing only sandals and shorts, but suffered frostbite and turned back at 7,400 meters (24,300 feet) – he wants to test the limits of human potential, not die trying. He climbed Mt. Kilimanjaro instead the same way in 2009. Hof tells his students meditation in the cold strengthens mind and body. Some scientists also say ice bath treatments may have circulatory benefits for athletes, or help them recover quicker after training, although this remains controversial. For most people, hypothermia begins shortly after exposure to freezing temperatures without adequate clothing, and it can quickly lead to death once the body's core temperature falls below 90 degrees Fahrenheit (32 degrees Celsius). Hof says he can endure cold so well because he has learned to activate parts of his mind beyond the reach of most people's conscious control, and crank up what he calls his inner thermostat. In one well-documented demonstration in 2008, Hof remained encased in a glass box filled with ice on a New York City street for 71 minutes, at that time a record. Doctors monitoring his vital signs said his body temperature descended gradually to 93.6 degrees as his heart rate rose slowly into the 120s. He didn't shiver. Meditating with agni mantras will do that. To subscribe, send a message to: fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: fairfieldlife-dig...@yahoogroups.com fairfieldlife-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: fairfieldlife-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: When Prophecy Fails
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@... wrote: Nice reply, information I did not have, or remember. Caveat: I'm sure Markovsky would tell a different version of the story, and I'm not in a position to confirm the details of the one I heard (obviously from the pro-TM perspective). But I don't find it too difficult to believe that he presented himself to the researchers as objective, because he did the same thing with me in an email exchange we had about the ME before it had become clear which way he rolled. Markovsky hung out on alt.m.t for a time. Among his challenges to the ME was that the various studies were unethical because the researchers had failed to obtain informed consent from the populations the interventions were predicted to affect. That was so mind-numbingly obtuse in so many different ways, it pretty much destroyed his credibility with those who were present for the discussion. As for quantum mechanics, yes indeed it is the most confirmed theory, but they are still searching for the Higgs boson, and there seem to be hints from various sources, but so far they have not been verified. Especially at CERN where there is sufficient energy to find it, they still have to run tests at specific energies to try to locate it. If they do not find it, there will be trouble. That'll be fun! As for testing the ME, it might be easier to try smaller groups in smaller cities, where size and expense of the experiment can be better controlled. Even if successful, there could be other explanations as to why it might work, if the experiments were positive. There's a long-running experiment going on in Fairfield, as it happens, that appears not to have had very positive results. But I've heard only the *negative* version of that story--I'd be interested to hear a knowledgeable true-blue ME believer address it.
[FairfieldLife] Re: YF and soma?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: On May 22, 2011, at 4:09 AM, cardemaister wrote: prolly caused mainly by Helicobacter pylori -infection You do know this can be taken care of with antibiotics, right? Yogic flying, much less so... Yep, two different antibiotics and a proton pump inhibitor, or stuff, but I live in the character of B B played by Kim Matula (a riddle for us) that the possible superradiance created by the akashic woo woo rays produced by the limbic system of my brains at least could make them bacters more friendly... :-]
[FairfieldLife] Re: When Prophecy Fails
I was born at night, but it wasn't last night. Great line. I know it's an old line, but it's still a great line. Good rap, too. days like today, when True Believers all over the world awaken to find not the Rapture they were hoping and in whatever point you wanted to make.) snip This should be a familiar pattern to everyone who has followed the ever-changing magic numbers necessary for TMSP butt-bouncers to bring about world peace. First it was one set of numbers, and they were achieved and damn! -- no world peace. Actually, I don't believe the specified numbers were ever achieved on the sustained basis necessary to usher in world peace. The Taste of Utopia course in '83, for example, which did hit the prescribed numbers, lasted only three weeks. The solution was obvious. Not enough butt-bouncers, so the magic number was raised. And achieved. Not achieved, actually. And still nothing happened, world-peace-wise. Actually, quite a few very interesting things happened world-peace-wise back when the numbers were high--the fall of the Berlin Wall, for example. Could have been just coincidence, of course, but a number of promising events took place around the world during this period that took analysts by surprise and for which they had trouble finding an explanation. The interesting thing is how hard non-TMers have worked to attempt to debunk the various studies that have been done on the positive effects of the big World Peace Assemblies. One might almost wonder if *they* were the ones wrestling with cognitive dissonance.
[FairfieldLife] Joytish Prediction 2011-2012
Khara Year 2011-2012 PREDICTIONS The disposition of the planets on, April 4, 2011, Shukla Paksha Pratipada, or New Years Day, indicates a generally positive set-up for the coming year. It is positive in-as-much-as the challenges and problems that have plagued us in recent times will not increase beyond what they have been. Of course these days have not been easy, but we have adjusted to dealing with the difficultieswe have managed, and the good news is that it will not get any worse. While in some areas there will be modest improvement, the most reassuring message is that we will maintain status quo. We will not slip backwards, nor will we be confronted with problems more difficult than what we have dealt with already.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Joytish Prediction 2011-2012
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: Khara Year 2011-2012 PREDICTIONS The disposition of the planets on, April 4, 2011, Shukla Paksha Pratipada, or New Years Day, indicates a generally positive set-up for the coming year. It is positive in-as-much-as the challenges and problems that have plagued us in recent times will not increase beyond what they have been. Of course these days have not been easy, but we have adjusted to dealing with the difficultieswe have managed, and the good news is that it will not get any worse. While in some areas there will be modest improvement, the most reassuring message is that we will maintain status quo. We will not slip backwards, nor will we be confronted with problems more difficult than what we have dealt with already. This is indicated, in part, by the Rising Sign ruler for Taurus, Venus. Venus is powerfully situated in the 10th housea friendly housebringing particular advantages, and more importantly, establishes a fundamentally stable position with regards to the affairs of the country. The message in this set-up is unmistakable. We have both sufficient resources to manage, and the ability to withstand problems as they come. It means there need not be fear of collapse or failure. Rather, the tone is one of reassurance. We will carry-on; we possess the fortitude to find the solutions to our problems.
[FairfieldLife] Re: When Prophecy Fails
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@... wrote: I think you are right with this comment. While on a forum one is more likely to be free from the effects of individual contact, there is grouping, Are you sure you don't mean groping here? but the dynamics are a bit different even if influenced by those who are in groups that have direct contact with one another.
[FairfieldLife] Re: When Prophecy Fails
Hi, Marek, I believe you meant to address this to Curtis, not me. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, marekreavis reavismarek@... wrote: I was born at night, but it wasn't last night. Great line. I know it's an old line, but it's still a great line. Good rap, too. days like today, when True Believers all over the world awaken to find not the Rapture they were hoping and in whatever point you wanted to make.) snip This should be a familiar pattern to everyone who has followed the ever-changing magic numbers necessary for TMSP butt-bouncers to bring about world peace. First it was one set of numbers, and they were achieved and damn! -- no world peace. Actually, I don't believe the specified numbers were ever achieved on the sustained basis necessary to usher in world peace. The Taste of Utopia course in '83, for example, which did hit the prescribed numbers, lasted only three weeks. The solution was obvious. Not enough butt-bouncers, so the magic number was raised. And achieved. Not achieved, actually. And still nothing happened, world-peace-wise. Actually, quite a few very interesting things happened world-peace-wise back when the numbers were high--the fall of the Berlin Wall, for example. Could have been just coincidence, of course, but a number of promising events took place around the world during this period that took analysts by surprise and for which they had trouble finding an explanation. The interesting thing is how hard non-TMers have worked to attempt to debunk the various studies that have been done on the positive effects of the big World Peace Assemblies. One might almost wonder if *they* were the ones wrestling with cognitive dissonance.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Joytish Prediction 2011-2012
Khara Year 2011-2012 PREDICTIONS The disposition of the planets on, April 4, 2011, Shukla Paksha Pratipada, or New Years Day, indicates a generally positive set-up for the coming year. It is positive in-as-much-as the challenges and problems that have plagued us in recent times will not increase beyond what they have been. Of course these days have not been easy, but we have adjusted to dealing with the difficultieswe have managed, and the good news is that it will not get any worse. While in some areas there will be modest improvement, the most reassuring message is that we will maintain status quo. We will not slip backwards, nor will we be confronted with problems more difficult than what we have dealt with already. This is indicated, in part, by the Rising Sign ruler for Taurus, Venus. Venus is powerfully situated in the 10th housea friendly housebringing particular advantages, and more importantly, establishes a fundamentally stable position with regards to the affairs of the country. The message in this set-up is unmistakable. We have both sufficient resources to manage, and the ability to withstand problems as they come. It means there need not be fear of collapse or failure. Rather, the tone is one of reassurance. We will carry-on; we possess the fortitude to find the solutions to our problems. There is inherent strength in the United States' natal chart. The Khara period (2011-2012) draws on that strength, especially with regards to Venus and Saturn, as they are friends and well-placed in the Khara chart. Additionally, Venus is Vergotama in the Navamsha chart, meaning its strength is enhanced. Mercury is sufficiently well-placed in the 11th house.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Joytish Prediction 2011-2012
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: Khara Year 2011-2012 PREDICTIONS The disposition of the planets on, April 4, 2011, Shukla Paksha Pratipada, or New Years Day, indicates a generally positive set-up for the coming year. It is positive in-as-much-as the challenges and problems that have plagued us in recent times will not increase beyond what they have been. Of course these days have not been easy, but we have adjusted to dealing with the difficultieswe have managed, and the good news is that it will not get any worse. While in some areas there will be modest improvement, the most reassuring message is that we will maintain status quo. We will not slip backwards, nor will we be confronted with problems more difficult than what we have dealt with already. This is indicated, in part, by the Rising Sign ruler for Taurus, Venus. Venus is powerfully situated in the 10th housea friendly housebringing particular advantages, and more importantly, establishes a fundamentally stable position with regards to the affairs of the country. The message in this set-up is unmistakable. We have both sufficient resources to manage, and the ability to withstand problems as they come. It means there need not be fear of collapse or failure. Rather, the tone is one of reassurance. We will carry-on; we possess the fortitude to find the solutions to our problems. There is inherent strength in the United States' natal chart. The Khara period (2011-2012) draws on that strength, especially with regards to Venus and Saturn, as they are friends and well-placed in the Khara chart. Additionally, Venus is Vergotama in the Navamsha chart, meaning its strength is enhanced. Mercury is sufficiently well-placed in the 11th house. Mercury's debilitation in Pisces is cancelled due to the planetary set-up with Jupiter in the same house, which enhances Mercury's power considerably. A strong Mercury, as it is ruler of the 2nd and the 5th houses, has an important role to play in the financial, business, trade and education fields. Mercury will promote the values of higher education, leading to some advancement in that area. Mercury will also have a role to play in furthering progress in the financial, business and trade fields.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Joytish Prediction 2011-2012
For anyone who's interested and doesn't want to wait breathlessly for the latest cascade installment from Buck, the entire text can be found here: http://vedicastrology.com/2011_2012Predictions.html --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: Khara Year 2011-2012 PREDICTIONS The disposition of the planets on, April 4, 2011, Shukla Paksha Pratipada, or New Years Day, indicates a generally positive set-up for the coming year. It is positive in-as-much-as the challenges and problems that have plagued us in recent times will not increase beyond what they have been. Of course these days have not been easy, but we have adjusted to dealing with the difficultieswe have managed, and the good news is that it will not get any worse. While in some areas there will be modest improvement, the most reassuring message is that we will maintain status quo. We will not slip backwards, nor will we be confronted with problems more difficult than what we have dealt with already. This is indicated, in part, by the Rising Sign ruler for Taurus, Venus. Venus is powerfully situated in the 10th housea friendly housebringing particular advantages, and more importantly, establishes a fundamentally stable position with regards to the affairs of the country. The message in this set-up is unmistakable. We have both sufficient resources to manage, and the ability to withstand problems as they come. It means there need not be fear of collapse or failure. Rather, the tone is one of reassurance. We will carry-on; we possess the fortitude to find the solutions to our problems. There is inherent strength in the United States' natal chart. The Khara period (2011-2012) draws on that strength, especially with regards to Venus and Saturn, as they are friends and well-placed in the Khara chart. Additionally, Venus is Vergotama in the Navamsha chart, meaning its strength is enhanced. Mercury is sufficiently well-placed in the 11th house.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Joytish Prediction 2011-2012
Khara Year 2011-2012 PREDICTIONS The disposition of the planets on, April 4, 2011, Shukla Paksha Pratipada, or New Years Day, indicates a generally positive set-up for the coming year. It is positive in-as-much-as the challenges and problems that have plagued us in recent times will not increase beyond what they have been. Of course these days have not been easy, but we have adjusted to dealing with the difficultieswe have managed, and the good news is that it will not get any worse. While in some areas there will be modest improvement, the most reassuring message is that we will maintain status quo. We will not slip backwards, nor will we be confronted with problems more difficult than what we have dealt with already. This is indicated, in part, by the Rising Sign ruler for Taurus, Venus. Venus is powerfully situated in the 10th housea friendly housebringing particular advantages, and more importantly, establishes a fundamentally stable position with regards to the affairs of the country. The message in this set-up is unmistakable. We have both sufficient resources to manage, and the ability to withstand problems as they come. It means there need not be fear of collapse or failure. Rather, the tone is one of reassurance. We will carry-on; we possess the fortitude to find the solutions to our problems. There is inherent strength in the United States' natal chart. The Khara period (2011-2012) draws on that strength, especially with regards to Venus and Saturn, as they are friends and well-placed in the Khara chart. Additionally, Venus is Vergotama in the Navamsha chart, meaning its strength is enhanced. Mercury is sufficiently well-placed in the 11th house. Mercury's debilitation in Pisces is cancelled due to the planetary set-up with Jupiter in the same house, which enhances Mercury's power considerably. A strong Mercury, as it is ruler of the 2nd and the 5th houses, has an important role to play in the financial, business, trade and education fields. Mercury will promote the values of higher education, leading to some advancement in that area. Mercury will also have a role to play in furthering progress in the financial, business and trade fields. Generally speaking, with regards to business and commerce, modest progress is suggested; however, this will not be reflected in unemployment figures, or they will reflect minimum improvement. Typically, companies may fare somewhat better, but they will be reluctant to hire additional employees.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Joytish Prediction 2011-2012
Khara Year 2011-2012 PREDICTIONS The disposition of the planets on, April 4, 2011, Shukla Paksha Pratipada, or New Years Day, indicates a generally positive set-up for the coming year. It is positive in-as-much-as the challenges and problems that have plagued us in recent times will not increase beyond what they have been. Of course these days have not been easy, but we have adjusted to dealing with the difficultieswe have managed, and the good news is that it will not get any worse. While in some areas there will be modest improvement, the most reassuring message is that we will maintain status quo. We will not slip backwards, nor will we be confronted with problems more difficult than what we have dealt with already. This is indicated, in part, by the Rising Sign ruler for Taurus, Venus. Venus is powerfully situated in the 10th housea friendly housebringing particular advantages, and more importantly, establishes a fundamentally stable position with regards to the affairs of the country. The message in this set-up is unmistakable. We have both sufficient resources to manage, and the ability to withstand problems as they come. It means there need not be fear of collapse or failure. Rather, the tone is one of reassurance. We will carry-on; we possess the fortitude to find the solutions to our problems. There is inherent strength in the United States' natal chart. The Khara period (2011-2012) draws on that strength, especially with regards to Venus and Saturn, as they are friends and well-placed in the Khara chart. Additionally, Venus is Vergotama in the Navamsha chart, meaning its strength is enhanced. Mercury is sufficiently well-placed in the 11th house. Mercury's debilitation in Pisces is cancelled due to the planetary set-up with Jupiter in the same house, which enhances Mercury's power considerably. A strong Mercury, as it is ruler of the 2nd and the 5th houses, has an important role to play in the financial, business, trade and education fields. Mercury will promote the values of higher education, leading to some advancement in that area. Mercury will also have a role to play in furthering progress in the financial, business and trade fields. Generally speaking, with regards to business and commerce, modest progress is suggested; however, this will not be reflected in unemployment figures, or they will reflect minimum improvement. Typically, companies may fare somewhat better, but they will be reluctant to hire additional employees. Saturn does have the tendency to attract natural calamities. Throughout the Khara year there will be continued incidence of tornados, hurricanes, earthquakes, rain and flooding, accidents, fire and explosions. Perhaps last year when I relayed this prediction, it was hard to imagine what a greater incidence of natural disasters could mean in actual reality; at this point we can understand what we're up against here. This is an influence continuing from the previous period. I do not feel this influence poses a threat greater than what we experienced last year.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Joytish Prediction 2011-2012
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley j_alexander_stanley@... wrote: For anyone who's interested and doesn't want to wait breathlessly for the latest cascade installment from Buck, the entire text can be found here: http://vedicastrology.com/2011_2012Predictions.html Please, stop now before it is too late! Om, all you all, you should be fairly warned before opening anymore of this, that you'd be ineligible whether a TM-teacher, Gov, re-certified or un-re-certified, and/or just a citizen meditator to be in the domes or any other TM meditation facility doing group meditation by consulting any joytish other than official TM-movement joytish consultation sources. Just by reading this so-called expert on FFL you'd more than likely become ineligible to receive or keep your valid dome badge to be in the dome program. It's the policy. Stop now before it is too late! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: Khara Year 2011-2012 PREDICTIONS The disposition of the planets on, April 4, 2011, Shukla Paksha Pratipada, or New Years Day, indicates a generally positive set-up for the coming year. It is positive in-as-much-as the challenges and problems that have plagued us in recent times will not increase beyond what they have been. Of course these days have not been easy, but we have adjusted to dealing with the difficultieswe have managed, and the good news is that it will not get any worse. While in some areas there will be modest improvement, the most reassuring message is that we will maintain status quo. We will not slip backwards, nor will we be confronted with problems more difficult than what we have dealt with already. This is indicated, in part, by the Rising Sign ruler for Taurus, Venus. Venus is powerfully situated in the 10th housea friendly housebringing particular advantages, and more importantly, establishes a fundamentally stable position with regards to the affairs of the country. The message in this set-up is unmistakable. We have both sufficient resources to manage, and the ability to withstand problems as they come. It means there need not be fear of collapse or failure. Rather, the tone is one of reassurance. We will carry-on; we possess the fortitude to find the solutions to our problems. There is inherent strength in the United States' natal chart. The Khara period (2011-2012) draws on that strength, especially with regards to Venus and Saturn, as they are friends and well-placed in the Khara chart. Additionally, Venus is Vergotama in the Navamsha chart, meaning its strength is enhanced. Mercury is sufficiently well-placed in the 11th house.
[FairfieldLife] Post Count
Fairfield Life Post Counter === Start Date (UTC): Sat May 21 00:00:00 2011 End Date (UTC): Sat May 28 00:00:00 2011 220 messages as of (UTC) Sun May 22 23:02:45 2011 25 tartbrain no_re...@yahoogroups.com 25 Buck dhamiltony...@yahoo.com 22 authfriend jst...@panix.com 22 Yifu yifux...@yahoo.com 14 seventhray1 steve.sun...@sbcglobal.net 13 turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com 12 WillyTex willy...@yahoo.com 11 whynotnow7 whynotn...@yahoo.com 10 raunchydog raunchy...@yahoo.com 10 Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net 6 Ravi Yogi raviy...@att.net 5 cardemaister no_re...@yahoogroups.com 5 Vaj vajradh...@earthlink.net 4 Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartax...@yahoo.com 4 Mike Dixon mdixon.6...@yahoo.com 3 nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com 3 emptybill emptyb...@yahoo.com 3 Tom Pall thomas.p...@gmail.com 2 merudanda no_re...@yahoogroups.com 2 curtisdeltablues curtisdeltabl...@yahoo.com 2 PaliGap compost...@yahoo.co.uk 2 Alex Stanley j_alexander_stan...@yahoo.com 2 do.rflex do.rf...@yahoo.com 1 sparaig lengli...@cox.net 1 seekliberation seekliberat...@yahoo.com 1 richardnelson108 richardnelson...@yahoo.com 1 merlin vedamer...@yahoo.de 1 marekreavis reavisma...@sbcglobal.net 1 jpgillam jpgil...@yahoo.com 1 azgrey no_re...@yahoogroups.com 1 Sal Sunshine salsunsh...@lisco.com 1 Robert babajii...@yahoo.com 1 Rick Archer r...@searchsummit.com 1 Peter drpetersutp...@yahoo.com 1 Paulo Barbosa tprob...@terra.com.br 1 John jr_...@yahoo.com Posters: 36 Saturday Morning 00:00 UTC Rollover Times = Daylight Saving Time (Summer): US Friday evening: PDT 5 PM - MDT 6 PM - CDT 7 PM - EDT 8 PM Europe Saturday: BST 1 AM CEST 2 AM EEST 3 AM Standard Time (Winter): US Friday evening: PST 4 PM - MST 5 PM - CST 6 PM - EST 7 PM Europe Saturday: GMT 12 AM CET 1 AM EET 2 AM For more information on Time Zones: www.worldtimezone.com
[FairfieldLife] Food for thought
From the Telegraph (UK): The Rapture aside, America's evangelical Christians deserve a little respect By Tim Stanley Last week I went to a small evangelical church in West Los Angeles to test the mood pre-Rapture. This particular congregation did not buy the prediction by Christian broadcaster Harold Camping that the End was now, but they shared his feeling that it must be soon. A lady sang an oddly upbeat song about The Dark Times Due and the preacher affirmed that God is on his way. We must live our lives like every day might be our last, he said. We must be prepared to be judged, be prepared to give good account of ourselves. Then he asked each and every one of us if we were ready to meet our maker. Many nodded and shouted yes. Some, like me, looked shamefully at their knees. The only good thing you can say about Hell, said the preacher, is that at least you won't want for company. The Rapture that never was has been treated by many secularists and liberals as a prime piece of proof that American evangelicals are nuts. To be sure, most commentators have stressed that dating the Armageddon is germane to only a handful of churches. But the entire evangelical movement is damned by association with Camping, for they share his faith that the world is on the path to destruction. Stephen Fry called them imbeciles. Others have said the same in a more roundabout way. Paul Brandeis on Huffington Post wrote, people who put their trust in these movements have a sense of powerlessness, and they need to believe in a radical solution to their current situation The followers of Camping and the May 21 movement are largely working-class people who feel that they have less and less of a voice or place in this world. Like buying a lottery ticket, they are placing bets on a instant transformation of their personal situation where the last will become first, and the rich will be sent away empty. That's a classic modernist formulation: that fundamentalist belief is an idiot's way of understanding and expressing economic pain. The Camping misfire, like the Westboro Baptist Church's nonsense, distracts from the innumerable benefits that evangelical culture has brought to American life. America was forged by millenarianism. The Puritans were hardcore Calvinists who shaped American attitudes towards religious tolerance but who also believed that you could tell whether or not someone was going to Hell by the way they dressed. American attitudes towards social egality were likewise shaped by the 18th century's Great Awakening, with its emphasis upon the potential for individual redemption and personal revelation. The eruption of End of the Worldism in the early 1800s provided much of the impetus for social reform and the anti-slavery movement. It is true that some evangelical theologians focus upon the Armageddon to the neglect of immediate, material problems. But many more have preached that Jesus would prefer to return to a world that deserved him. America's greatest theologian, Jonathan Edwards (1703-1753), kept notes on events that suggested the apocalypse was near an earthquake, a fire, even the French introducing a new toll. It wasn't an idle distraction from the practicalities of being a Christian, with its essential commandment to love others actively, but a way of reading signposts to a new order founded on that very principle. The threat of Armageddon is not, as the Guardian suggests, the fundamentalist Christian equivalent of the last helicopter out of Saigon. Rather it is a spur to action: a reminder that God is watching what you are doing and that He expects results. Evangelism is complex and nuanced. There are charismatics and fundamentalists, liberals and conservatives, black and white and racially mixed congregations. Its variation accords well with the free-market ethos of America, where each church is part of a thriving marketplace of ideas. Evangelicalism cannot be summarised in one glib column, or damned by the actions of one misguided branch. And while the federal government continues to break down and capitalism only entrenches divides, evangelicalism is a motor of social change. To give one example, the church I went to runs an outreach program for prisoners. Sweet little old ladies give up their time to meet and pray with rapists and murders. The statistics seem to confirm that the best way to stop criminals from reoffending is to convert them to Christianity (or something similar). One evangelical program in Texas resulted in a drop in the rate of reoffending from 55 per cent to eight per cent. The government ought to pay missionaries to go into prisons, a congregant told me. Across the United States, atheists are gathering at Rapture parties to celebrate another day of life on this corrupted Earth. Their joy at Camping's error is plain mean. While they knock back cheap imported beer and make-out in hot-tubs, thousands of
[FairfieldLife] And another bite...
From Too Much Judgment: The media's shameful, cruel obsession with those awaiting the rapture by Tiffany Stanley, in The New Republic: ...Laughing at religious fanatics is nothing new. And, at some level, there's nothing wrong with it. But this story didn't just take off in popularity because people wanted a quick laugh or some insight into a quirky subset of our country. There's a cruelty underlying our desire to laugh at this storya desire to see people humiliated and to revel in our own superiority and rationalityeven though the people in question are pretty tragic characters, who either have serious problems themselves or perhaps are being taken advantage of, or both. Sure, it's an interesting story when a fringe group decides the world is ending tomorrow. But it's also a small story. Come Sunday morning, as news articles flood in about the disillusioned end-timers, and those articles instantly become some of the most popular on the webas they surely willwe might want to ask ourselves not what is wrong with this sad group of apocalyptic believers, but rather what is wrong with a society that takes such pleasure in their dysfunction. Read more: http://www.tnr.com/article/88803/rapture-judgement-day-may-21-media-obsession http://tinyurl.com/3gudl9a
[FairfieldLife] Re: To Vaj- The Magical Puja Placebo
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Yogi raviyogi@... wrote: I do enjoy your constant projections of peace, happiness and love on to others, I'm sure you make your heroes Gandhi, MLK and the Dalai Lama proud of you !!! Keep it up !!! I know your beef with Gandi, and the Dolly Lama. But what is the problem with MLK?
[FairfieldLife] Re: To Vaj- The Magical Puja Placebo
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray1 steve.sundur@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Yogi raviyogi@ wrote: I do enjoy your constant projections of peace, happiness and love on to others, I'm sure you make your heroes Gandhi, MLK and the Dalai Lama proud of you !!! Keep it up !!! I know your beef with Gandi, and the Dolly Lama. But what is the problem with MLK? Somewhat related topic. Last night I saw a PBS documentary on the Freedom Riders. Great piece. Those students and volunteers, men and women, white and black were incredibly ballsy and courageous. And brought down a long standing Jim Crow policy by taking the offensive -- the Freedom Rides and practicing highly disciplined non-violent resistance against a horrendously racist and violent culture. No other tact had worked for 100 years, and I don't see how other approaches would have achieved the same result in the same time span. And MLK was behind the curve, not ahead of it on that one. (But for those dissing King, I hope you have and encourage you to read Letter from Birmingham Jail -- an his other writings.) (And while I have some issues with Ghandi's economic policies, again, what approach other than non-violent resistance would have defeated the British (Evil) Empire?)
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM 's Mission Statement redux
You know, to get it (MUM's mission statement) down to one sentence took a lot of work. It's their words in one sentence that do remain but I had to jettison all sorts of their hyperbolic rhetoric and whole sections about their life-supporting behavior in alignment with natural law to make it work. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: One sentence! Version: Maharishi University of Management was founded by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi to produce more fully developed individuals by developing the potential of consciousness within every student through a higher educational system of Consciousness-Based education giving traditional academic knowledge a foundation coupled with the study of consciousness through Transcendental Meditation and other scientifically validated practices taught by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi for developing consciousness. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jpgillam jpgillam@ wrote: Feste, thanks for pointing out the actual text in question. I agree with you. It's pretty good. Good for what? Internal consumption? Clear guidance? Mission? Make sure your idea is clear and focused. You should be able to describe the (charity's) purpose and mission in a single sentence. -The Nonprofit Handbook -Grobman Three elements of a Good Mission Statement: 1 A mission statement should be no more than a single sentence long. 2 It should be easily understood by a twelve year old. 3 It should be able to be recited by memory at gunpoint. Having a clearly articulated mission statement gives one a template of purpose that can be used to initiate, evaluate, and refine all of one's activities. Unsuccessful or Inadequate Mission Statements will have these characteristics: 1 Uninspiring. 2 They are for the benefit of one person or party only. 3 They are unintelligible by outsiders. 4 They are full of trite or ordinary phrases. There, that is the movement's MUM mission statement. Pretty clearly the Movement's web page version of mission is to re-enforce people who are already tru-believers. It's for internal consumption mostly. One sentence! Version: Maharishi University of Management was founded by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi to produce more fully developed individuals by developing the potential of consciousness within every student through a higher educational system of Consciousness-Based education giving traditional academic knowledge a foundation coupled with the study of consciousness through Transcendental Meditation and other scientifically validated practices taught by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi for developing consciousness. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: Dear Feste37, you and I are some of the only tru-believers here who would like to see things work out for the movement. I hope they can succeed. Now, both of us can read the movement stuff and be right with it and understand what they are saying. But, I was taking a swing at reading it all as if I were an outsider looking in. You know, walking in the shoes of another. Trying to empathsize with an outsider looking in. I found the empathetic reading almost impossible. It is a bunch of cult-speak to anyone looking in. So, I then took a swing at distilling some core things down using their essential language that is there but slimming down the hyperbolic TM-movement-ese. Version I, was the straightest most secular I could get in one sentence using their words. Version II is the mission statement off the web page. Version II is un-readable cult. Version III was in between I and II editing in progress. I'm just trying to help. -Buck in FF --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 feste37@ wrote:
[FairfieldLife] Re: To Vaj- The Magical Puja Placebo
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray1 steve.sundur@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Yogi raviyogi@ wrote: I do enjoy your constant projections of peace, happiness and love on to others, I'm sure you make your heroes Gandhi, MLK and the Dalai Lama proud of you !!! Keep it up !!! I know your beef with Gandi, and the Dolly Lama. But what is the problem with MLK? Thanks for asking :-), my beef is only from a spiritual perspective comparing them to self-realized masters, otherwise they are great. They are all birds of same feather, they are all revolutionaries, they are about crowd, the masses. Transforming crowds, masses is a very fascinating ego-satisfying concept but never works. It only feeds the ego, the ego wants to transform the suffering masses, the reasons for a revolution are always outside, decadent traditions, cultures, people in power. Even when they fail at revolution the ego doesn't admit failure again it blames things on the outside, that may be people are stupid and they don't understand the greatness of the revolutionary, that they are not ready for change. For people fascinated with the world these revolutionaries are great heroes. The crowd is a myth, there are only individuals and true transformation is only possible with the individuals. Taking a look superficially the self-realized masters also seem to be dealing with a crowd as well but it is just a misconception they really work at an individual level. The only revolution that is possible is inner but its a pity that its never satisfying for the ego since it is the ego death itself. Real peace, happiness, love, compassion is only possible with an inner revolution. Hope I made some sense.
[FairfieldLife] Re: And another bite...
Excellent find Judy. The follow-up comments are really interesting too. This really made me think about my own emotions about this group. Although she is getting some play from her original take, she is still cashing in on the story like everyone else. But that is not the most interesting thing for me. I remember when I first drove past a van on a street in my neighborhood with this rapture date claim on the side. It got me thinking and I fantasized going to this house with a sign on the day after that said counter-evidence is a bitch isn't it? or something equally snarky. As the days got closer and I saw some media coverage I realized that I didn't need my hat in the ring. I had a private party gig Saturday and considered putting empty clothes in front of my set-up as if someone had raptured in front of me. The party I was playing for was DC, well-off, hip-enough, nice folks who threw in a few references to the time of the event and chuckled a bit. I didn't sense any malice or the kind of put down this writer seems to be objecting to. I'm not sure the press's need for a story really reflects how we all think about it all. Mixed with the snark was some genuine bafflement, how could someone buy in to this? But here is where is gets even more interesting for me. Even though this event was a compressed example put into a falsifiable form, the rapture is not a fringe belief. It is mainstream Christianity. And if you drop the date all the other beliefs are there. So this writer is basically saying that we should all pity all of those Christians who believe all the same stuff without the specific date. Should we think of them as having a dysfunction for such beliefs? And here is where it gets in my craw a bit. More than the belief that sitting in a dome doing Maharishi's sidhis creates world peace, by a long shot. In their fantasy they are not satisfied with creating a ideal society like TMers. Although I bristle a bit when people lay an I am intrinsically more WHATEVER than you are and understand life in a way you cannot this is not even close to what these people are laying on me. They want my head on a pike for eternity! Bastards! I think that is what gets people not in their group pissed, the malicious arrogance of their belief, so we want a little payback. We can't get if from the smug ill-wishing Christians who basically believe the same thing. With this group we get the satisfaction we will never get after death with the mainstream Christians to say, Neeener nner nner. I mean that is not so high on the malicious scale as their wishing I will spend an eternity in a place where whenever I order my burrito alfresco with no cheese in a drive-thru, when I get to where I can stop and eat it, I will always find out that my burrito is slimed with that nasty cheese-food-product that doubles the calories on my already guilty meal while presenting my liver with Martin-molecules of fat that makes my liver make that Homer Simpson sound when it tries to oxidize it: Doh! So I get it that spiking the ball is too much and I believe most people not trying to fill up media space feel that way too. But lets not forget that for every one of these people there are one hundred, (thousand, hundred thousand???) people who basically believe the same thing without the stop-watch. And some of them are making political/ecological decisions about our custodianship of a planet that they believe is their launching pad, and disposable. So for me, it is a virtue to call BS on such claims when we can. I only wish the media could grow a pair and connect this with all the other slo-mo rapture believers. In fact I would like to see an article pointing out that while this small fringe was eating their crow (here is a case where that crappy cheese might help the taste) millions of Christians had re-affirmed their faith that morning in churches, believing equally nutty things about their own specialness. And they don't get a pass because they think it will all happen after we die. They still want me to have an eternity tying to use my thumb to get off that sticky crap that every sticker leaves on every damn kitchen item we buy today. I use my nail and I scratch the surface, I use my finger back and forth and it leaves that weird square film. God help you if you break out a scrub pad cuz your new peeler, grater,Italian pasta bowls, or olive pitter (works on cherries too)will forever have hatch-mark scratches from your efforts to remove that sticky crap. (I tried rubbing alcohol and it only works sometimes.) I think they make it out of that cheese they put in my burritos. (I was trying for Dave Barry but I think I just swung perilously close to Andy Rooney on this one.) So I get that we shouldn't gloat too much that this group was dead wrong. But at the core of Christian belief is the extremely uncharitable belief that they are going
[FairfieldLife] Re: To Vaj- The Magical Puja Placebo
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Yogi raviyogi@... wrote: For people fascinated with the world these revolutionaries are great heroes. The crowd is a myth, there are only individuals and true transformation is only possible with the individuals. Taking a look superficially the self-realized masters also seem to be dealing with a crowd as well but it is just a misconception they really work at an individual level. The only revolution that is possible is inner but its a pity that its never satisfying for the ego since it is the ego death itself. Real peace, happiness, love, compassion is only possible with an inner revolution. Hope I made some sense. Thanks, I think I got it on the second read. And it is an interesting perspective. I am not sure how I feel about it. Yea, of course the real revolution must occur within. But between that, and a figure (personality) to inspire the masses there is the possibility of someone who can inspire others to take actions that can produce changes in their evironment, county, or world. If that makes any sense.
[FairfieldLife] Re: And another bite...
I enjoyed reading this, Curtis, but I'm working on a deadline and have very little time to comment. Wanted to make two main points: --All Christians are taught the Second Coming, but the Rapture belief isn't universal by any means. Maybe that isn't what you meant to suggest by mainstream? It's primarily a belief of Evangelicals. The fringe nature of the recent hoop-te-do had more to do with the idea that it could be so specifically predicted. And even among Evangelicals, there's dizzying variety of understandings about exactly how it all falls out. Some Christian denominations really don't deal with eschatology at all beyond the idea that it's gonna happen some day. --You paint with *way* too broad a brush in suggesting that all Christians hope you go to hell. That kind of malice is actually quite rare, even among the May 21ers. Most of 'em want to *save* you from going to hell. You make some good points, but you miss the boat on these two. Again, I wish I had more time to comment. Oh, and an addendum--for how to remove label residue, see this: http://www.ehow.com/how_2023764_remove-sticky-residue.html Also try lighter fluid. There are also products you can buy that are designed to do the job. One is called Goo Gone: http://www.googone.com/GG-Browse-Products --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@... wrote: Excellent find Judy. The follow-up comments are really interesting too. This really made me think about my own emotions about this group. Although she is getting some play from her original take, she is still cashing in on the story like everyone else. But that is not the most interesting thing for me. I remember when I first drove past a van on a street in my neighborhood with this rapture date claim on the side. It got me thinking and I fantasized going to this house with a sign on the day after that said counter-evidence is a bitch isn't it? or something equally snarky. As the days got closer and I saw some media coverage I realized that I didn't need my hat in the ring. I had a private party gig Saturday and considered putting empty clothes in front of my set-up as if someone had raptured in front of me. The party I was playing for was DC, well-off, hip-enough, nice folks who threw in a few references to the time of the event and chuckled a bit. I didn't sense any malice or the kind of put down this writer seems to be objecting to. I'm not sure the press's need for a story really reflects how we all think about it all. Mixed with the snark was some genuine bafflement, how could someone buy in to this? But here is where is gets even more interesting for me. Even though this event was a compressed example put into a falsifiable form, the rapture is not a fringe belief. It is mainstream Christianity. And if you drop the date all the other beliefs are there. So this writer is basically saying that we should all pity all of those Christians who believe all the same stuff without the specific date. Should we think of them as having a dysfunction for such beliefs? And here is where it gets in my craw a bit. More than the belief that sitting in a dome doing Maharishi's sidhis creates world peace, by a long shot. In their fantasy they are not satisfied with creating a ideal society like TMers. Although I bristle a bit when people lay an I am intrinsically more WHATEVER than you are and understand life in a way you cannot this is not even close to what these people are laying on me. They want my head on a pike for eternity! Bastards! I think that is what gets people not in their group pissed, the malicious arrogance of their belief, so we want a little payback. We can't get if from the smug ill-wishing Christians who basically believe the same thing. With this group we get the satisfaction we will never get after death with the mainstream Christians to say, Neeener nner nner. I mean that is not so high on the malicious scale as their wishing I will spend an eternity in a place where whenever I order my burrito alfresco with no cheese in a drive-thru, when I get to where I can stop and eat it, I will always find out that my burrito is slimed with that nasty cheese-food-product that doubles the calories on my already guilty meal while presenting my liver with Martin-molecules of fat that makes my liver make that Homer Simpson sound when it tries to oxidize it: Doh! So I get it that spiking the ball is too much and I believe most people not trying to fill up media space feel that way too. But lets not forget that for every one of these people there are one hundred, (thousand, hundred thousand???) people who basically believe the same thing without the stop-watch. And some of them are making political/ecological decisions about our custodianship of a planet that they believe is their launching pad, and disposable. So for
[FairfieldLife] Re: To Vaj- The Magical Puja Placebo
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray1 steve.sundur@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Yogi raviyogi@ wrote: For people fascinated with the world these revolutionaries are great heroes. The crowd is a myth, there are only individuals and true transformation is only possible with the individuals. Taking a look superficially the self-realized masters also seem to be dealing with a crowd as well but it is just a misconception they really work at an individual level. The only revolution that is possible is inner but its a pity that its never satisfying for the ego since it is the ego death itself. Real peace, happiness, love, compassion is only possible with an inner revolution. Hope I made some sense. Thanks, I think I got it on the second read. And it is an interesting perspective. I am not sure how I feel about it. Yea, of course the real revolution must occur within. But between that, and a figure (personality) to inspire the masses there is the possibility of someone who can inspire others to take actions that can produce changes in their evironment, county, or world. If that makes any sense. I guess its not an easy job to intellectually articulate it without sounding cold, distant and impersonal. Sure changing the surrounding environment sounds great on paper but it only provides momentary happiness before the mind moves to yet another imperfection in the outside world. It's a never ending quest for perfection in the outside which always leaves an inner discontentment if one is really aware. I spent most of the day cleaning my Guru's ashram. I remarked to my friend how great a seva (service) cleaning was because even after several hours of cleaning you can't possibly say that the area was perfectly clean. Cleaning is an endless fruitless activity like changing the world. Its a perfect seva to judge inner calmness LOL.. I constantly see people engaged in believing that their ultimate happiness lies in changing outer imperfections or that their happiness lies in making a difference in the outer world. That happiness lies in being a good father, a good spouse, a good child, a good employee or making a difference to the society, helping heal people, help suffering people in Sudan. In India there is much appreciation for wandering mendicants, they appreciate a sadhu who finds no need to indulge in any outer activity to be in total inner happiness. I remember how excited I would get when I was young to serve food to a Sadhu who would appear on our doorstep to beg for food. Perfection is never possible in the outside world, we can say perfection is only possible in the inner world. Inner perfection is nothing but accepting that outer perfection is an impossibility and that the existence is imperfectly perfect, that in fact the existence moves from one perfection to the other. Once this inner state is reached it doesn't imply cold and impersonal behavior. In fact only when this inner acceptance is reached that you can now compassionately indulge in changing outer imperfections.
[FairfieldLife] Re: When Prophecy Fails
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: Being a big fan of the book When Prophecy Fails, I love days like today, when True Believers all over the world awaken to find not the Rapture they were hoping and praying for So how many days like today have you experienced, and when was the most recent before this one? Also, just for the record, no believers awakened this morning to find that the Rapture had not occurred. They knew it before they went to bed last night. (Editorial note: Writerly flourishes tend to be a lot more effective when they don't contradict the known facts. If they do, readers quickly realize you're writing for yourself, not for them, and it lessens their investment in whatever point you wanted to make.) snip This should be a familiar pattern to everyone who has followed the ever-changing magic numbers necessary for TMSP butt-bouncers to bring about world peace. First it was one set of numbers, and they were achieved and damn! -- no world peace. Actually, I don't believe the specified numbers were ever achieved on the sustained basis necessary to usher in world peace. The Taste of Utopia course in '83, for example, which did hit the prescribed numbers, lasted only three weeks. The solution was obvious. Not enough butt-bouncers, so the magic number was raised. And achieved. Not achieved, actually. And still nothing happened, world-peace-wise. Actually, quite a few very interesting things happened world-peace-wise back when the numbers were high--the fall of the Berlin Wall, for example. Could have been just coincidence, of course, but a number of promising events took place around the world during this period that took analysts by surprise and for which they had trouble finding an explanation. The interesting thing is how hard non-TMers have worked to attempt to debunk the various studies that have been done on the positive effects of the big World Peace Assemblies. One might almost wonder if *they* were the ones wrestling with cognitive dissonance. The way the ME works, is to wake up consciousness... When people are beginning to experience 'Soul Realization' ... Either singlely, or in a large group, then 'Souls' begin to wake up or bring more awareness or coherence in the general population, or the 'collective unconscious'... Much of this level of understanding of higher states of consciousness, or soul realization, is more intuitive rather than hard and cold empirical data... The whole matter of stablizing Brahman Consciousness, is an intuitive realization, a cognition, rather than an empirical perception... R.
[FairfieldLife] Re: To Vaj- The Magical Puja Placebo
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray1 steve.sundur@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Yogi raviyogi@ wrote: I do enjoy your constant projections of peace, happiness and love on to others, I'm sure you make your heroes Gandhi, MLK and the Dalai Lama proud of you !!! Keep it up !!! I know your beef with Gandi, and the Dolly Lama. But what is the problem with MLK? Somewhat related topic. Last night I saw a PBS documentary on the Freedom Riders. Great piece. Those students and volunteers, men and women, white and black were incredibly ballsy and courageous. And brought down a long standing Jim Crow policy by taking the offensive -- the Freedom Rides and practicing highly disciplined non-violent resistance against a horrendously racist and violent culture. No other tact had worked for 100 years, and I don't see how other approaches would have achieved the same result in the same time span. And MLK was behind the curve, not ahead of it on that one. (But for those dissing King, I hope you have and encourage you to read Letter from Birmingham Jail -- an his other writings.) (And while I have some issues with Ghandi's economic policies, again, what approach other than non-violent resistance would have defeated the British (Evil) Empire?) That non-violent resistance ended the British Empire is laughable. I think the reason British granted independence (note how I say granted and not that India won independence) was two - one they had already raped India of all its resources, contrast India and Britain between 1600 and 1900, and ruling India was a big burden on Britain and two the British citizens no longer resembled their uncivilized forefathers of 1600's and started questioning their own government on the continued occupancy of India and many other countries. To say Gandhi was non-violent is another laughable statement. He indulged in fast unto deaths which though superficially can be considered as non-violent, were in fact highly passive aggressive and emotional blackmail. In fact I don't recall Gandhi performing a fast unto death asking British to leave, he was very clever and cunning, he knew he would surely starve to death if he would do that. He was nothing but a politician who used the propaganda of non-violence as his main weapon. That MLK and guys like you are fascinated by him shows the quality of your thinking as well.
[FairfieldLife] Re: When Prophecy Fails
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert babajii_99@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: Being a big fan of the book When Prophecy Fails, I love days like today, when True Believers all over the world awaken to find not the Rapture they were hoping and praying for So how many days like today have you experienced, and when was the most recent before this one? Also, just for the record, no believers awakened this morning to find that the Rapture had not occurred. They knew it before they went to bed last night. (Editorial note: Writerly flourishes tend to be a lot more effective when they don't contradict the known facts. If they do, readers quickly realize you're writing for yourself, not for them, and it lessens their investment in whatever point you wanted to make.) snip This should be a familiar pattern to everyone who has followed the ever-changing magic numbers necessary for TMSP butt-bouncers to bring about world peace. First it was one set of numbers, and they were achieved and damn! -- no world peace. Actually, I don't believe the specified numbers were ever achieved on the sustained basis necessary to usher in world peace. The Taste of Utopia course in '83, for example, which did hit the prescribed numbers, lasted only three weeks. The solution was obvious. Not enough butt-bouncers, so the magic number was raised. And achieved. Not achieved, actually. And still nothing happened, world-peace-wise. (snip) We could say that the 'Taste of Utopia' course prevented a nuclear confrontation... I spoke to someone who was in the Navy, during that time period, and was stationed in the North Sea, in a nuclear Submarine... During that time period, he told me that they were on constant hight alert, and really expected the Soviets to act irratically, because they thought Reagan was crazy, and they were very insecure in their own power at that time... Also, when higher states of consciousness begins to be stabilized and radiated, this effects the whole enviornment...and recently people are reporting more instances of stabilized higher states of consciousness... Also, there are reports, that 'butt-bouncing' is being replaced in a few cases, of short instances of 'Floating' very effortlessly...have been reported, thereby indicating a much higher level of mastery taking place... R.
[FairfieldLife] Militants Attack Pakistani Naval Base in Karachi
KARACHI, May 22: Armed militants stormed into a naval airbase here on Sunday night, destroyed three aircraft and killed at least five people four navy personnel and a foreigner whose nationality could not be ascertained. http://www.dawn.com/2011/05/23/terrorists-attack-navy-airbase-in-karachi-destroy-three-aircraft.html http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13497328 http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/23/world/asia/23pakistan.html?_r=1 http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia/2011/05/201152218582675282.html You'd think a country with nukes could easily deter others from attacking it, apparently not. Nukes didn't prevent the USA from ignoring Pakistan's sovereignty and killing Osama bin Laden and nukes didn't prevent us from killing innocent Pakistani citizens with drones. Nukes are a horrible blight on the planet. We should destroy every last one of them. But now that militants have breached Pakistan's well-secured navy airbase in Karachi, a possible site for nukes, it would make sense to call for destruction of nukes, but I doubt it. It wouldn't surprise me if the next thing we hear is a scary news story saying Pakistan can't be trusted to keep its nukes from terrorists. I I certainly hope we haven't lost our minds enough to launch an operation to seize Pakistan's nukes. But it's not too much of a stretch to think it's possible since we already have far more CIA agents and special forces operating there than Pakistan wants. American hegemony sucks and it worries me.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Militants Attack Pakistani Naval Base in Karachi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchydog@... wrote: KARACHI, May 22: Armed militants stormed into a naval airbase here on Sunday night, destroyed three aircraft and killed at least five people four navy personnel and a foreigner whose nationality could not be ascertained. http://www.dawn.com/2011/05/23/terrorists-attack-navy-airbase-in-karachi-destroy-three-aircraft.html http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13497328 http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/23/world/asia/23pakistan.html?_r=1 http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia/2011/05/201152218582675282.html You'd think a country with nukes could easily deter others from attacking it, apparently not. Nukes didn't prevent the USA from ignoring Pakistan's sovereignty and killing Osama bin Laden and nukes didn't prevent us from killing innocent Pakistani citizens with drones. Nukes are a horrible blight on the planet. We should destroy every last one of them. But now that militants have breached Pakistan's well-secured navy airbase in Karachi, a possible site for nukes, it would make sense to call for destruction of nukes, but I doubt it. It wouldn't surprise me if the next thing we hear is a scary news story saying Pakistan can't be trusted to keep its nukes from terrorists. I I certainly hope we haven't lost our minds enough to launch an operation to seize Pakistan's nukes. But it's not too much of a stretch to think it's possible since we already have far more CIA agents and special forces operating there than Pakistan wants. American hegemony sucks and it worries me. I guess we're crazier than I thought. The US India axis is trying to outsmart Pakistan and its neighbors by pretending that Pakistan is indeed a partner in its global war against terrorism, while they clandestinely move closer to Pakistan's nuclear weapons bases with an ultimate goal of bringing the nukes under Western control. http://hamsayeh.net/world/732-pakistan-allows-the-use-of-a-major-naval-base-to-peoples-liberation-army-of-china.html http://tinyurl.com/3e9t5l5
