Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
My vet said to keep new negative cats seperate from positives until they had the vaccination for felv and then just to be safe, wait a cuple of weeks to be sure the shot worked. I have done that and my pos and neg cats all have had free run of the house for 2 years now. No one new has tested positive so far. Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: Is there any way you could use a full-spectrum light in the basement for Amber? I have installed fluorescent full-spectrum light for the cats in our garage cat condos; none have been sick for years! -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Maureen Olvey Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 2:50 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors Regarding Amber - Been doing more reading. By keeping Amber in the basement you're not putting your cats at risk at all so don't feel guilty about that. One thing said 60% of cats exposed to FeLV don't get it. 5-10% put it into a latent stage. Only about 30% get it and die (still too many though). Sometimes it can take up to a year of prolonged exposure for a healthy adult cat to get the virus in it's system. I honestly think with Amber in the basement your cats have no chance of getting it. You have done a wonderful thing by taking her in. Also - do the IFA test too. Or do it in a couple months when you re-test if the ELISA comes out positive again. Another website I read said the in office ELISA combo test are wrong about 50% of the time. Wonder how many cats have been put down because of that. I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn't..the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further. - Mark Twain Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 08:04:47 -0700 From: jannestay...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors I use to have indoor/outdoor cats, but now they are strickly indoor. There are so many dangers outside such as cars, dogs, and the chance of encountering a another cat with felv, for example. I do feel sorry for them sometimes, but I have to say I would trade places with any one of them to live the life of luxury they experinece indoors. They do long to go outside sometimes, but I open up the windows and let them smell the fresh air. I don't feel too guilty about it. LOL Update on Amber, my felv kitty. I've had her three and a half weeks now and she is looking and feeling so much better! She has gained weight and still has a good appetite. She is so sweet. My husband is building her a kitty palace, which is eight feet long, four feet wide, and six feet tall. We bought a cat tree to put in it so she can climb and get her exercise. I have been keeping her in a much smaller cage (the only on I have) and letting her roam in the basement a few hours a day when I can. I so wish I could bring her upstairs with the other cats, but just don't feel I should take the risk. I am still struggling a little bit with putting them at risk at all, but it is what it is! I still plan to have Amber retested in a couple of months. Whatever happens, I am still glad I have been given the opportunity to make a difference in her life. Jannes From: Natalie at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wed, March 23, 2011 8:13:09 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors As an adopter, my views on this are very strict and well-defined - I am responsible for placing cats in the safest possible homes, and I would do no less. I need to be able to sleep at night, knowing that the cats that I rescued and invested so much time, energy, and emotion will be safe and happy for a long time. Yes, I agree, there still are a few safe area left, but not many and none are 100% safe, ever. It is true that times used to be safer for cats to be outdoors - ours always had been, especially when I was growing up, until one of our kittens was killed by a carUnfortunately, it takes many people to understand this only after a tragedy occurs. When an adopter tells me that their cat ALWAYS sat on the front porch, and never leftand they intend to do the same with a new adopted cat, I say NO! Their old cat may have indeed done that, but it doesn't mean that a new cat will do it: It takes ONLY ONE TIME - chasing a squirrel or bird across the street, and WHAM! Cats can be perfectly happy indoors with tall cat trees by a window, a window perch, the right kind of toys to keep them interested and active. More and more people construct outdoor enclosures; simple ones to really
Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
I live in the middle of the woods so we have coyotes, raccoons, and possum all around us. For that reason, I do not let my babies out at night. They usually go out for an hour in the morning and then are content to stay in the rest of the day. Even then, they mostly stay on the deck or very close to the house. We have not had a problem so far. Even when my mountain lion showed up at deer season, he never bothered my cats. I think he was feeding on a couple of bucks that hunters wounded and never tracked down to put them out of their misery. He usually stays around for 2 or 3 weeks and then moves on. He crosses our road about 50 yards from the house on a deer crossing. Just in case, the first time I see him, I kep the cats in. Of course, I also keep them in to protect them from the hunters. Maureen Olvey molvey...@hotmail.com wrote: From: molvey...@hotmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 01:56:54 -0400 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors Yikes! I don't like those statistics at all but I believe it. I've been feeding ferals at my office for the last 8 years. Several months back I found one dead and half eaten, then another one went missing not too long after that. A week or two later I saw a coyote in the parking lot of the office building next to us. I work at night a lot so I have more of an opportunity to see them than some people. I stopped leaving food out for my cats at night. After not seeing the coyote for a while I got back in the bad habit of leaving cat food out at night. Just last week I walked outside about 10 PM and there was the coyote at the food dish, which isn't too far away from my front door. The coyote didn't scare me but then I saw my two remaining semi-feral cats running towards me and realized they had been close by while the coyote was eating. I've stopped leaving food out and hopefully he'll move on. I'm so scared for my cats at the office. I wish that if I left a lot of food out for the coyote he'd stay full and leave the cats alone. I don't think it works that way though. He'll still want to chase and kill them because of his instinct. I really wish pet cats could roam outside and enjoy the extra freedom. But stuff like this has made me more of an advocate of keeping them indoors all the time, unless you have a cat fence or something. Loose dogs have always been a problem killing cats but I don't remember having a coyote problem as a kid. Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 17:24:10 -0700 From: hingebacktorto...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors Maureen - I am in GA also, and analysis of coyote stomach contents showed that something like 60% of them contained cat remains. I suspect that's why we have such a coyote problem, even in the suburbs - they are supplied with an endless number of cats as prey - somebody's cat goes missing and they just replace it with another one. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
From: molvey...@hotmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 01:56:54 -0400 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors Yikes! I don't like those statistics at all but I believe it. I've been feeding ferals at my office for the last 8 years. Several months back I found one dead and half eaten, then another one went missing not too long after that. A week or two later I saw a coyote in the parking lot of the office building next to us. I work at night a lot so I have more of an opportunity to see them than some people. I stopped leaving food out for my cats at night. After not seeing the coyote for a while I got back in the bad habit of leaving cat food out at night. Just last week I walked outside about 10 PM and there was the coyote at the food dish, which isn't too far away from my front door. The coyote didn't scare me but then I saw my two remaining semi-feral cats running towards me and realized they had been close by while the coyote was eating. I've stopped leaving food out and hopefully he'll move on. I'm so scared for my cats at the office. I wish that if I left a lot of food out for the coyote he'd stay full and leave the cats alone. I don't think it works that way though. He'll still want to chase and kill them because of his instinct. I really wish pet cats could roam outside and enjoy the extra freedom. But stuff like this has made me more of an advocate of keeping them indoors all the time, unless you have a cat fence or something. Loose dogs have always been a problem killing cats but I don't remember having a coyote problem as a kid. Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 17:24:10 -0700 From: hingebacktorto...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors Maureen - I am in GA also, and analysis of coyote stomach contents showed that something like 60% of them contained cat remains. I suspect that's why we have such a coyote problem, even in the suburbs - they are supplied with an endless number of cats as prey - somebody's cat goes missing and they just replace it with another one. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
Regarding Amber - Been doing more reading. By keeping Amber in the basement you're not putting your cats at risk at all so don't feel guilty about that. One thing said 60% of cats exposed to FeLV don't get it. 5-10% put it into a latent stage. Only about 30% get it and die (still too many though). Sometimes it can take up to a year of prolonged exposure for a healthy adult cat to get the virus in it's system. I honestly think with Amber in the basement your cats have no chance of getting it. You have done a wonderful thing by taking her in. Also - do the IFA test too. Or do it in a couple months when you re-test if the ELISA comes out positive again. Another website I read said the in office ELISA combo test are wrong about 50% of the time. Wonder how many cats have been put down because of that. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 08:04:47 -0700 From: jannestay...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors I use to have indoor/outdoor cats, but now they are strickly indoor. There are so many dangers outside such as cars, dogs, and the chance of encountering a another cat with felv, for example. I do feel sorry for them sometimes, but I have to say I would trade places with any one of them to live the life of luxury they experinece indoors. They do long to go outside sometimes, but I open up the windows and let them smell the fresh air. I don't feel too guilty about it. LOL Update on Amber, my felv kitty. I've had her three and a half weeks now and she is looking and feeling so much better! She has gained weight and still has a good appetite. She is so sweet. My husband is building her a kitty palace, which is eight feet long, four feet wide, and six feet tall. We bought a cat tree to put in it so she can climb and get her exercise. I have been keeping her in a much smaller cage (the only on I have) and letting her roam in the basement a few hours a day when I can. I so wish I could bring her upstairs with the other cats, but just don't feel I should take the risk. I am still struggling a little bit with putting them at risk at all, but it is what it is! I still plan to have Amber retested in a couple of months. Whatever happens, I am still glad I have been given the opportunity to make a difference in her life. Jannes From: Natalie at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wed, March 23, 2011 8:13:09 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors As an adopter, my views on this are very strict and well-defined - I am responsible for placing cats in the safest possible homes, and I would do no less. I need to be able to sleep at night, knowing that the cats that I rescued and invested so much time, energy, and emotion will be safe and happy for a long time. Yes, I agree, there still are a few safe area left, but not many and none are 100% safe, ever. It is true that times used to be safer for cats to be outdoors - ours always had been, especially when I was growing up, until one of our kittens was killed by a carUnfortunately, it takes many people to understand this only after a tragedy occurs. When an adopter tells me that their cat ALWAYS sat on the front porch, and never leftand they intend to do the same with a new adopted cat, I say NO! Their old cat may have indeed done that, but it doesn't mean that a new cat will do it: It takes ONLY ONE TIME - chasing a squirrel or bird across the street, and WHAM! Cats can be perfectly happy indoors with tall cat trees by a window, a window perch, the right kind of toys to keep them interested and active. More and more people construct outdoor enclosures; simple ones to really elaborate ones, even just a little window screened porch. I don't believe that cats need to hunt; if they are homeless and hungry, yes, but there's no need for a well-fed cat to kill small wildlife, not for food, but for fun and the reflex of chasing something (could be a toy). -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lorrie Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 7:56 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors This is a hot topic, but I agree humans and loss of habitat are the main threat to birds. As for keeping cats inside. I've had cats all my life and they have always been indoor/outdoor cats. All of them have lived to 16 to 17 years of age unless they've had some genetic problem like heart disease. My cats were all rescues and they lived
Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
Is there any way you could use a full-spectrum light in the basement for Amber? I have installed fluorescent full-spectrum light for the cats in our garage cat condos; none have been sick for years! -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Maureen Olvey Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 2:50 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors Regarding Amber - Been doing more reading. By keeping Amber in the basement you're not putting your cats at risk at all so don't feel guilty about that. One thing said 60% of cats exposed to FeLV don't get it. 5-10% put it into a latent stage. Only about 30% get it and die (still too many though). Sometimes it can take up to a year of prolonged exposure for a healthy adult cat to get the virus in it's system. I honestly think with Amber in the basement your cats have no chance of getting it. You have done a wonderful thing by taking her in. Also - do the IFA test too. Or do it in a couple months when you re-test if the ELISA comes out positive again. Another website I read said the in office ELISA combo test are wrong about 50% of the time. Wonder how many cats have been put down because of that. I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn't..the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further. - Mark Twain Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 08:04:47 -0700 From: jannestay...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors I use to have indoor/outdoor cats, but now they are strickly indoor. There are so many dangers outside such as cars, dogs, and the chance of encountering a another cat with felv, for example. I do feel sorry for them sometimes, but I have to say I would trade places with any one of them to live the life of luxury they experinece indoors. They do long to go outside sometimes, but I open up the windows and let them smell the fresh air. I don't feel too guilty about it. LOL Update on Amber, my felv kitty. I've had her three and a half weeks now and she is looking and feeling so much better! She has gained weight and still has a good appetite. She is so sweet. My husband is building her a kitty palace, which is eight feet long, four feet wide, and six feet tall. We bought a cat tree to put in it so she can climb and get her exercise. I have been keeping her in a much smaller cage (the only on I have) and letting her roam in the basement a few hours a day when I can. I so wish I could bring her upstairs with the other cats, but just don't feel I should take the risk. I am still struggling a little bit with putting them at risk at all, but it is what it is! I still plan to have Amber retested in a couple of months. Whatever happens, I am still glad I have been given the opportunity to make a difference in her life. Jannes From: Natalie at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wed, March 23, 2011 8:13:09 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors As an adopter, my views on this are very strict and well-defined - I am responsible for placing cats in the safest possible homes, and I would do no less. I need to be able to sleep at night, knowing that the cats that I rescued and invested so much time, energy, and emotion will be safe and happy for a long time. Yes, I agree, there still are a few safe area left, but not many and none are 100% safe, ever. It is true that times used to be safer for cats to be outdoors - ours always had been, especially when I was growing up, until one of our kittens was killed by a carUnfortunately, it takes many people to understand this only after a tragedy occurs. When an adopter tells me that their cat ALWAYS sat on the front porch, and never leftand they intend to do the same with a new adopted cat, I say NO! Their old cat may have indeed done that, but it doesn't mean that a new cat will do it: It takes ONLY ONE TIME - chasing a squirrel or bird across the street, and WHAM! Cats can be perfectly happy indoors with tall cat trees by a window, a window perch, the right kind of toys to keep them interested and active. More and more people construct outdoor enclosures; simple ones to really elaborate ones, even just a little window screened porch. I don't believe that cats need to hunt; if they are homeless and hungry, yes, but there's no need for a well-fed cat to kill small wildlife, not for food, but for fun and the reflex of chasing something (could be a toy). -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lorrie Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 7:56 AM
Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
Edna, I agree. Four of our five cats were outside at some time in their lives, 3 of those were feral, and 2 of *those* were kittens I trapped myself, and they have not been outside since the day we met. Just because they stare out the window sometimes doesn't mean they're longing for the feel of grass beneath their toes -- though of course if there was a safe way to give them that, I would. What PETA and the rest don't seem to get is that Felis Domesticus is NOT a wild animal and is no match for the modern predators of cars, trains, coyotes, and feral humans like the one you describe below. People don't willingly let their parakeets out or let their Betas swim in mud puddles, why do they think house cats are anything but house cats. And, in my experience, even cats born outside get very used to the comforts of indoors. Years ago a couple who were online friends of mine whose two cats were their babies, came home to find that a neighbor in their very tranquil suburban neighborhood had accidentally backed over one of their cats. They were, of course, devastated, and it changed their opinion of where cats are best off. That's a horrible way to learn but it's a fact that outside cats, even ones with owners, face many more dangers than they are equipped to handle. Another 2 cents. I don't mean to offend those of you who don't agree, but seeing roadkill that's supposed to be curled up in a pouffy chair somewhere instead offends me. Diane R. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Edna Taylor Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 10:40 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors Just because your kid likes to eat McDonald's every day or binge drink or do drugs because it makes them happy is NOT a reason to allow it. The same reasoning goes for cats, just because they LIKE it doesn't mean it's good for them. My cats may be prisoners in my house but I sleep well at night knowing they are loved and safe and from what I can tell, they are pretty freakin happy. I have picked up enough broken and battered bodies off the roadways to know that NONE of my cats or fosters will EVER be allowed outside unless it is in a safe enclosure or on a leash. There was a young individual (can't call him a man because real men do not torture animals) in Dallas that took his neighbor's inside/outside cat and over a course of several hours beat and tortured the cat and video taped the entire thing. THAT is what happens to outdoor cats. While some may be lucky enough to escape being tortured, hit by cars, eaten by coyotes or hawks or owls, most do not escape this fate. Sorry but I 100% DISAGREE with cats are wild animals and need to live outside point of view. Just my 2 cents. Edna Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 09:13:09 -0400 From: at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors As an adopter, my views on this are very strict and well-defined - I am responsible for placing cats in the safest possible homes, and I would do no less. I need to be able to sleep at night, knowing that the cats that I rescued and invested so much time, energy, and emotion will be safe and happy for a long time. Yes, I agree, there still are a few safe area left, but not many and none are 100% safe, ever. It is true that times used to be safer for cats to be outdoors - ours always had been, especially when I was growing up, until one of our kittens was killed by a carUnfortunately, it takes many people to understand this only after a tragedy occurs. When an adopter tells me that their cat ALWAYS sat on the front porch, and never leftand they intend to do the same with a new adopted cat, I say NO! Their old cat may have indeed done that, but it doesn't mean that a new cat will do it: It takes ONLY ONE TIME - chasing a squirrel or bird across the street, and WHAM! Cats can be perfectly happy indoors with tall cat trees by a window, a window perch, the right kind of toys to keep them interested and active. More and more people construct outdoor enclosures; simple ones to really elaborate ones, even just a little window screened porch. I don't believe that cats need to hunt; if they are homeless and hungry, yes, but there's no need for a well-fed cat to kill small wildlife, not for food, but for fun and the reflex of chasing something (could be a toy). -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lorrie Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 7:56 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors This is a hot topic, but I agree humans and loss of habitat are the main threat to birds. As for keeping cats inside. I've had cats all my life and they have always been indoor/outdoor cats. All of them have lived to 16 to 17 years
Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
Thank you so much Maureen. I really appreciate you taking the time to reassure me. I really do love little Amber and will do the best I can for her. I can't help hoping and praying that the test was wrong and I can eventually let her join the other kids. Jannes From: Maureen Olvey molvey...@hotmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thu, March 24, 2011 1:49:42 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors Regarding Amber - Been doing more reading. By keeping Amber in the basement you're not putting your cats at risk at all so don't feel guilty about that. One thing said 60% of cats exposed to FeLV don't get it. 5-10% put it into a latent stage. Only about 30% get it and die (still too many though). Sometimes it can take up to a year of prolonged exposure for a healthy adult cat to get the virus in it's system. I honestly think with Amber in the basement your cats have no chance of getting it. You have done a wonderful thing by taking her in. Also - do the IFA test too. Or do it in a couple months when you re-test if the ELISA comes out positive again. Another website I read said the in office ELISA combo test are wrong about 50% of the time. Wonder how many cats have been put down because of that. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 08:04:47 -0700 From: jannestay...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors I use to have indoor/outdoor cats, but now they are strickly indoor. There are so many dangers outside such as cars, dogs, and the chance of encountering a another cat with felv, for example. I do feel sorry for them sometimes, but I have to say I would trade places with any one of them to live the life of luxury they experinece indoors. They do long to go outside sometimes, but I open up the windows and let them smell the fresh air. I don't feel too guilty about it. LOL Update on Amber, my felv kitty. I've had her three and a half weeks now and she is looking and feeling so much better! She has gained weight and still has a good appetite. She is so sweet. My husband is building her a kitty palace, which is eight feet long, four feet wide, and six feet tall. We bought a cat tree to put in it so she can climb and get her exercise. I have been keeping her in a much smaller cage (the only on I have) and letting her roam in the basement a few hours a day when I can. I so wish I could bring her upstairs with the other cats, but just don't feel I should take the risk. I am still struggling a little bit with putting them at risk at all, but it is what it is! I still plan to have Amber retested in a couple of months. Whatever happens, I am still glad I have been given the opportunity to make a difference in her life. Jannes From: Natalie at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wed, March 23, 2011 8:13:09 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors As an adopter, my views on this are very strict and well-defined - I am responsible for placing cats in the safest possible homes, and I would do no less. I need to be able to sleep at night, knowing that the cats that I rescued and invested so much time, energy, and emotion will be safe and happy for a long time. Yes, I agree, there still are a few safe area left, but not many and none are 100% safe, ever. It is true that times used to be safer for cats to be outdoors - ours always had been, especially when I was growing up, until one of our kittens was killed by a carUnfortunately, it takes many people to understand this only after a tragedy occurs. When an adopter tells me that their cat ALWAYS sat on the front porch, and never leftand they intend to do the same with a new adopted cat, I say NO! Their old cat may have indeed done that, but it doesn't mean that a new cat will do it: It takes ONLY ONE TIME - chasing a squirrel or bird across the street, and WHAM! Cats can be perfectly happy indoors with tall cat trees by a window, a window perch, the right kind of toys to keep them interested and active. More and more people construct outdoor enclosures; simple ones to really elaborate ones, even just a little window screened porch. I don't believe that cats need to hunt; if they are homeless and hungry, yes, but there's no need for a well-fed cat to kill small wildlife, not for food, but for fun and the reflex of chasing something (could be a toy). -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lorrie Sent
Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
From that study in CA, the American Bird Conservancy was saying that the answer was to trap and kill the cats. That's the part that really irritated me. Yeah, cats killed a lot of those birds. The little tigers will kill most anything that moves. It's their instinct. But the cats got there somehow and even before people fed them they were there and multiplying like crazy. Because of a lot of different reasons and a lot of studies, Trap-Neuter-Return the only way that will have the long term results of cutting the population of free-roaming cats way down. But, those bird brains just want to kill all the cats as though that will fix everything. I like birds and I like the people in the ABC, and I really don't think of them as bird brains I was just being funny, but the idiots that run the thing and making those comments about killing the cats are short-sighted. Everytime I hear something from the ABC I just get upset before even knowing what they're going to say because I know how they feel about free-roaming cats and I know they hate TNR. Obviously, I'm a big advocate of TNR. What I'd really like to say to them is that I wonder how many of those birds are killed when they build the condos and board walks and everything else along the beaches. They need to spend their time fighting that battle before trying to have the cats killed. Maybe they do fight those battles too, but that's my angry comment, and I know it doesn't change the fact that the cats kill the poor birds, but sometimes you just want to tell people off. Oh well, that's my middle of the night rantings about the ABC. I don't like cats killing birds, mice, chipmonks, or even the poor snakes and keeping them inside is the best thing for the cats too. I don't mind using the cat being killers argument to motivate people keeping their pets indoors but leave the ferals alone and don't start talking about killing them. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 16:56:46 -0700 From: hingebacktorto...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors Yes, the number one cause of bird extinction is habitat loss, but cats are #2. There's a well-known study that was conducted on a couple of adjacent beaches in California, one with a feral cat population and one without. The beach that is home to feral cats has no birds - remember that most shorebirds are ground nesters - while the cat-free beach supports a healthy bird population. Of course, our birds have natural predators - some raptors such as red-tailed hawks prey mostly on birds. Kingsnakes and rat snakes are known for feasting on eggs and hatchlings. But this is natural predation so things are kept in balance. Throw in a highly efficient predator such as a cat and the balance changes. --- On Tue, 3/22/11, SomeWhere Sam sin...@sbcglobal.net wrote: From: SomeWhere Sam sin...@sbcglobal.net Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Tuesday, March 22, 2011, 4:36 PM Sorry but that information is outdated or biased. The number one killer of birds is humans due to habitat loss or construction for same. Humans: The Number One Threat to Birds http://www.alleycat.org/NetCommunity/Page.aspx?pid=325 SomeWhere Sam From: Bonnie Hogue ho...@sonic.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tue, March 22, 2011 2:37:38 PM Subject: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors In the newspaper today: House cats are the #1 predator of wild birds. The American Bird Conservancy estimates up to 500 million birds per year are killed by cats. About 400,000 are killed yearly by wind turbines (less than 20% of the number killed by cats). So now we have another reason to keep our cats indoors -- not only for their own health and safety, but for that of our BIRD population! Save the cats and the birds: Keep Your Cat Indoors! ~Bonnie ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo
Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
You can also take it further and reiterate that humans are the #1 killers of birds because of the dummies that let their un-altered pet cats run around outside and breed and have kittens everywhere, not just because of the habitat destruction that we do. I think where I live in GA some of the rodents are getting a reprive because all the coyotes who would normally eat some of the rodents are getting full on my feral cats. It's so sad. I don't hate the coyotes for doing it (just like I don't hate or blame cats for killing other small prey) but it breaks my heart everytime a feral goes missing. All points always come back to the main topic of the importance of keeping the cats indoors (and getting them fixed). All we can do is spread the message and hope it makes a difference. And it my part of the world it has made a huge difference. When I was a kid, no one contemplated keeping a cat indoors it's whole life. But now, more and more people are. I can tell by the people I meet at our adoptions. Things are changing - we just have a long way to go still. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 18:23:12 -0700 From: sin...@sbcglobal.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors LOL Humans are a non-native, introduced and subsidized predators.G This is like expecting pet owners to spay or neuter their pets, interesting idea, one which I would love to see, but seeing and knowing human nature is not going to happen in my lifetime. SomeWhere Sam From: LauraM hingebacktorto...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tue, March 22, 2011 6:42:23 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors I've tried using those statistics on people who refuse to contain their cats, thinking they MIGHT care about wildlife even though they clearly aren't concerned with their cats' own safety. Hasn't worked. There are also people out there who want irresponsible owners of bird-killing cats to be held legally liable, as it's a violation of federal law to kill most bird species has been for decades. And in some areas cats have reduced the rodent population to such low numbers that migrating raptors - all federally protected - have nothing to eat. Cats, as non-native, introduced and subsidized predators, have no business being outside. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
This is a hot topic, but I agree humans and loss of habitat are the main threat to birds. As for keeping cats inside. I've had cats all my life and they have always been indoor/outdoor cats. All of them have lived to 16 to 17 years of age unless they've had some genetic problem like heart disease. My cats were all rescues and they lived outside before I had them, and they are totally miserable inside. It's really only the last couple decades that cats have been living indoors, but the invention of cat litter and urban sprawl have made us think all cats have the perfect life indoors, when in reality, cats are happier if they can live outdoors. They are programmed to hunt small animalswhich is the best nutrition for them. They need to climb trees, stalk at night with their night vision, and be free. Cats were not made for sitting in a window sill, and a prison is a prison no matter how many cat toys and kitty kondos we buy for them. It's true that some outdoor cats have a shorter life expectancy, but this mostly depends on where they live. If they live in a safe area with little or no traffic then I feel they should be allowed to be outside. There are some cats who will never willingly settle for the indoor life. We live in the middle of the woods on a dead end road with no traffic and our cats are allowed to go outside. I rarely see them catch a bird, but they catch many mice moles. I feel sad to see anything killed, but cats and dogs are predators and this is what they were designed to do. Lorrie Sorry but that information is outdated or biased. The number one killer of birds is humans due to habitat loss or construction for same. Humans: The Number One Threat to Birds http://www.alleycat.org/NetCommunity/Page.aspx?pid=325 SomeWhere Sam ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
They were trying to pass such legislation in Florida, too - kill all feral cats on sight! And to be able to shoot them, if anyone even suspected them to be homeless, in Utah - people who know nothing about cats. dogs and wildlife, unfortunately, have the platform to come up with such asinine plans and then enforce them - the general public are told all kinds of lies, and unthinkingly and stupidly go along with it! It seems that no matter what mankind (?) does, it's OK, as long as animals aren't in the way...and if they are, well, get rid of them under some guise! This is only one of my pet peeves: Yearly and systematically, OUR tax money is used to poison, burn, trap, shoot and exterminate wildlife like horses, burros, wild goats, foxes, coyotes, wolves, prairie dogs (just to name a few) to appease ranchers who lease OUR land from the government for pennies an acre (making huge profits), destroying it, and then moving on to the next.Thank you Secretary of the Interior Salazar! Thanks for letting me rant this morning! -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Maureen Olvey Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 3:38 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors From that study in CA, the American Bird Conservancy was saying that the answer was to trap and kill the cats. That's the part that really irritated me. Yeah, cats killed a lot of those birds. The little tigers will kill most anything that moves. It's their instinct. But the cats got there somehow and even before people fed them they were there and multiplying like crazy. Because of a lot of different reasons and a lot of studies, Trap-Neuter-Return the only way that will have the long term results of cutting the population of free-roaming cats way down. But, those bird brains just want to kill all the cats as though that will fix everything. I like birds and I like the people in the ABC, and I really don't think of them as bird brains I was just being funny, but the idiots that run the thing and making those comments about killing the cats are short-sighted. Everytime I hear something from the ABC I just get upset before even knowing what they're going to say because I know how they feel about free-roaming cats and I know they hate TNR. Obviously, I'm a big advocate of TNR. What I'd really like to say to them is that I wonder how many of those birds are killed when they build the condos and board walks and everything else along the beaches. They need to spend their time fighting that battle before trying to have the cats killed. Maybe they do fight those battles too, but that's my angry comment, and I know it doesn't change the fact that the cats kill the poor birds, but sometimes you just want to tell people off. Oh well, that's my middle of the night rantings about the ABC. I don't like cats killing birds, mice, chipmonks, or even the poor snakes and keeping them inside is the best thing for the cats too. I don't mind using the cat being killers argument to motivate people keeping their pets indoors but leave the ferals alone and don't start talking about killing them. I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn't..the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further. - Mark Twain Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 16:56:46 -0700 From: hingebacktorto...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors Yes, the number one cause of bird extinction is habitat loss, but cats are #2. There's a well-known study that was conducted on a couple of adjacent beaches in California, one with a feral cat population and one without. The beach that is home to feral cats has no birds - remember that most shorebirds are ground nesters - while the cat-free beach supports a healthy bird population. Of course, our birds have natural predators - some raptors such as red-tailed hawks prey mostly on birds. Kingsnakes and rat snakes are known for feasting on eggs and hatchlings. But this is natural predation so things are kept in balance. Throw in a highly efficient predator such as a cat and the balance changes. --- On Tue, 3/22/11, SomeWhere Sam sin...@sbcglobal.net wrote: From: SomeWhere Sam sin...@sbcglobal.net Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Tuesday, March 22, 2011, 4:36 PM Sorry but that information is outdated or biased. The number one killer of birds is humans due to habitat loss or construction for same. Humans: The Number One Threat to Birds http://www.alleycat.org/NetCommunity/Page.aspx?pid=325 SomeWhere Sam From: Bonnie Hogue ho...@sonic.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tue
Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
As an adopter, my views on this are very strict and well-defined - I am responsible for placing cats in the safest possible homes, and I would do no less. I need to be able to sleep at night, knowing that the cats that I rescued and invested so much time, energy, and emotion will be safe and happy for a long time. Yes, I agree, there still are a few safe area left, but not many and none are 100% safe, ever. It is true that times used to be safer for cats to be outdoors - ours always had been, especially when I was growing up, until one of our kittens was killed by a carUnfortunately, it takes many people to understand this only after a tragedy occurs. When an adopter tells me that their cat ALWAYS sat on the front porch, and never leftand they intend to do the same with a new adopted cat, I say NO! Their old cat may have indeed done that, but it doesn't mean that a new cat will do it: It takes ONLY ONE TIME - chasing a squirrel or bird across the street, and WHAM! Cats can be perfectly happy indoors with tall cat trees by a window, a window perch, the right kind of toys to keep them interested and active. More and more people construct outdoor enclosures; simple ones to really elaborate ones, even just a little window screened porch. I don't believe that cats need to hunt; if they are homeless and hungry, yes, but there's no need for a well-fed cat to kill small wildlife, not for food, but for fun and the reflex of chasing something (could be a toy). -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lorrie Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 7:56 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors This is a hot topic, but I agree humans and loss of habitat are the main threat to birds. As for keeping cats inside. I've had cats all my life and they have always been indoor/outdoor cats. All of them have lived to 16 to 17 years of age unless they've had some genetic problem like heart disease. My cats were all rescues and they lived outside before I had them, and they are totally miserable inside. It's really only the last couple decades that cats have been living indoors, but the invention of cat litter and urban sprawl have made us think all cats have the perfect life indoors, when in reality, cats are happier if they can live outdoors. They are programmed to hunt small animalswhich is the best nutrition for them. They need to climb trees, stalk at night with their night vision, and be free. Cats were not made for sitting in a window sill, and a prison is a prison no matter how many cat toys and kitty kondos we buy for them. It's true that some outdoor cats have a shorter life expectancy, but this mostly depends on where they live. If they live in a safe area with little or no traffic then I feel they should be allowed to be outside. There are some cats who will never willingly settle for the indoor life. We live in the middle of the woods on a dead end road with no traffic and our cats are allowed to go outside. I rarely see them catch a bird, but they catch many mice moles. I feel sad to see anything killed, but cats and dogs are predators and this is what they were designed to do. Lorrie Sorry but that information is outdated or biased. The number one killer of birds is humans due to habitat loss or construction for same. Humans: The Number One Threat to Birds http://www.alleycat.org/NetCommunity/Page.aspx?pid=325 SomeWhere Sam ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
I use to have indoor/outdoor cats, but now they are strickly indoor. There are so many dangers outside such as cars, dogs, and the chance of encountering a another cat with felv, for example. I do feel sorry for them sometimes, but I have to say I would trade places with any one of them to live the life of luxury they experinece indoors. They do long to go outside sometimes, but I open up the windows and let them smell the fresh air. I don't feel too guilty about it. LOL Update on Amber, my felv kitty. I've had her three and a half weeks now and she is looking and feeling so much better! She has gained weight and still has a good appetite. She is so sweet. My husband is building her a kitty palace, which is eight feet long, four feet wide, and six feet tall. We bought a cat tree to put in it so she can climb and get her exercise. I have been keeping her in a much smaller cage (the only on I have) and letting her roam in the basement a few hours a day when I can. I so wish I could bring her upstairs with the other cats, but just don't feel I should take the risk. I am still struggling a little bit with putting them at risk at all, but it is what it is! I still plan to have Amber retested in a couple of months. Whatever happens, I am still glad I have been given the opportunity to make a difference in her life. Jannes From: Natalie at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wed, March 23, 2011 8:13:09 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors As an adopter, my views on this are very strict and well-defined - I am responsible for placing cats in the safest possible homes, and I would do no less. I need to be able to sleep at night, knowing that the cats that I rescued and invested so much time, energy, and emotion will be safe and happy for a long time. Yes, I agree, there still are a few safe area left, but not many and none are 100% safe, ever. It is true that times used to be safer for cats to be outdoors - ours always had been, especially when I was growing up, until one of our kittens was killed by a carUnfortunately, it takes many people to understand this only after a tragedy occurs. When an adopter tells me that their cat ALWAYS sat on the front porch, and never leftand they intend to do the same with a new adopted cat, I say NO! Their old cat may have indeed done that, but it doesn't mean that a new cat will do it: It takes ONLY ONE TIME - chasing a squirrel or bird across the street, and WHAM! Cats can be perfectly happy indoors with tall cat trees by a window, a window perch, the right kind of toys to keep them interested and active. More and more people construct outdoor enclosures; simple ones to really elaborate ones, even just a little window screened porch. I don't believe that cats need to hunt; if they are homeless and hungry, yes, but there's no need for a well-fed cat to kill small wildlife, not for food, but for fun and the reflex of chasing something (could be a toy). -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lorrie Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 7:56 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors This is a hot topic, but I agree humans and loss of habitat are the main threat to birds. As for keeping cats inside. I've had cats all my life and they have always been indoor/outdoor cats. All of them have lived to 16 to 17 years of age unless they've had some genetic problem like heart disease. My cats were all rescues and they lived outside before I had them, and they are totally miserable inside. It's really only the last couple decades that cats have been living indoors, but the invention of cat litter and urban sprawl have made us think all cats have the perfect life indoors, when in reality, cats are happier if they can live outdoors. They are programmed to hunt small animalswhich is the best nutrition for them. They need to climb trees, stalk at night with their night vision, and be free. Cats were not made for sitting in a window sill, and a prison is a prison no matter how many cat toys and kitty kondos we buy for them. It's true that some outdoor cats have a shorter life expectancy, but this mostly depends on where they live. If they live in a safe area with little or no traffic then I feel they should be allowed to be outside. There are some cats who will never willingly settle for the indoor life. We live in the middle of the woods on a dead end road with no traffic and our cats are allowed to go outside. I rarely see them catch a bird, but they catch many mice moles. I feel sad to see anything killed, but cats and dogs are predators and this is what they were designed to do. Lorrie Sorry but that information is outdated or biased. The number one killer of birds is humans due to habitat loss or construction for same. Humans: The Number One
Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
Just because your kid likes to eat McDonald's every day or binge drink or do drugs because it makes them happy is NOT a reason to allow it. The same reasoning goes for cats, just because they LIKE it doesn't mean it's good for them. My cats may be prisoners in my house but I sleep well at night knowing they are loved and safe and from what I can tell, they are pretty freakin happy. I have picked up enough broken and battered bodies off the roadways to know that NONE of my cats or fosters will EVER be allowed outside unless it is in a safe enclosure or on a leash. There was a young individual (can't call him a man because real men do not torture animals) in Dallas that took his neighbor's inside/outside cat and over a course of several hours beat and tortured the cat and video taped the entire thing. THAT is what happens to outdoor cats. While some may be lucky enough to escape being tortured, hit by cars, eaten by coyotes or hawks or owls, most do not escape this fate. Sorry but I 100% DISAGREE with cats are wild animals and need to live outside point of view. Just my 2 cents. Edna Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 09:13:09 -0400 From: at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors As an adopter, my views on this are very strict and well-defined - I am responsible for placing cats in the safest possible homes, and I would do no less. I need to be able to sleep at night, knowing that the cats that I rescued and invested so much time, energy, and emotion will be safe and happy for a long time. Yes, I agree, there still are a few safe area left, but not many and none are 100% safe, ever. It is true that times used to be safer for cats to be outdoors - ours always had been, especially when I was growing up, until one of our kittens was killed by a carUnfortunately, it takes many people to understand this only after a tragedy occurs. When an adopter tells me that their cat ALWAYS sat on the front porch, and never leftand they intend to do the same with a new adopted cat, I say NO! Their old cat may have indeed done that, but it doesn't mean that a new cat will do it: It takes ONLY ONE TIME - chasing a squirrel or bird across the street, and WHAM! Cats can be perfectly happy indoors with tall cat trees by a window, a window perch, the right kind of toys to keep them interested and active. More and more people construct outdoor enclosures; simple ones to really elaborate ones, even just a little window screened porch. I don't believe that cats need to hunt; if they are homeless and hungry, yes, but there's no need for a well-fed cat to kill small wildlife, not for food, but for fun and the reflex of chasing something (could be a toy). -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lorrie Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 7:56 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors This is a hot topic, but I agree humans and loss of habitat are the main threat to birds. As for keeping cats inside. I've had cats all my life and they have always been indoor/outdoor cats. All of them have lived to 16 to 17 years of age unless they've had some genetic problem like heart disease. My cats were all rescues and they lived outside before I had them, and they are totally miserable inside. It's really only the last couple decades that cats have been living indoors, but the invention of cat litter and urban sprawl have made us think all cats have the perfect life indoors, when in reality, cats are happier if they can live outdoors. They are programmed to hunt small animalswhich is the best nutrition for them. They need to climb trees, stalk at night with their night vision, and be free. Cats were not made for sitting in a window sill, and a prison is a prison no matter how many cat toys and kitty kondos we buy for them. It's true that some outdoor cats have a shorter life expectancy, but this mostly depends on where they live. If they live in a safe area with little or no traffic then I feel they should be allowed to be outside. There are some cats who will never willingly settle for the indoor life. We live in the middle of the woods on a dead end road with no traffic and our cats are allowed to go outside. I rarely see them catch a bird, but they catch many mice moles. I feel sad to see anything killed, but cats and dogs are predators and this is what they were designed to do. Lorrie Sorry but that information is outdated or biased. The number one killer of birds is humans due to habitat loss or construction for same. Humans: The Number One Threat to Birds http://www.alleycat.org/NetCommunity/Page.aspx?pid=325 SomeWhere Sam ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http
Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
You are 100% correct in saying: Sorry but I 100% DISAGREE with cats are wild animals and need to live outside point of view. Cats were indeed wild at one time; but since they have been domesticated for a few thousand years and allowed to over breed, causing many to revert to being feral, we are obligated to do as much as we can (and I can see that 100% of people in this group are doing so) to rectify all the misdoings of mankind. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Edna Taylor Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 11:40 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors Just because your kid likes to eat McDonald's every day or binge drink or do drugs because it makes them happy is NOT a reason to allow it. The same reasoning goes for cats, just because they LIKE it doesn't mean it's good for them. My cats may be prisoners in my house but I sleep well at night knowing they are loved and safe and from what I can tell, they are pretty freakin happy. I have picked up enough broken and battered bodies off the roadways to know that NONE of my cats or fosters will EVER be allowed outside unless it is in a safe enclosure or on a leash. There was a young individual (can't call him a man because real men do not torture animals) in Dallas that took his neighbor's inside/outside cat and over a course of several hours beat and tortured the cat and video taped the entire thing. THAT is what happens to outdoor cats. While some may be lucky enough to escape being tortured, hit by cars, eaten by coyotes or hawks or owls, most do not escape this fate. Sorry but I 100% DISAGREE with cats are wild animals and need to live outside point of view. Just my 2 cents. Edna Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 09:13:09 -0400 From: at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors As an adopter, my views on this are very strict and well-defined - I am responsible for placing cats in the safest possible homes, and I would do no less. I need to be able to sleep at night, knowing that the cats that I rescued and invested so much time, energy, and emotion will be safe and happy for a long time. Yes, I agree, there still are a few safe area left, but not many and none are 100% safe, ever. It is true that times used to be safer for cats to be outdoors - ours always had been, especially when I was growing up, until one of our kittens was killed by a carUnfortunately, it takes many people to understand this only after a tragedy occurs. When an adopter tells me that their cat ALWAYS sat on the front porch, and never leftand they intend to do the same with a new adopted cat, I say NO! Their old cat may have indeed done that, but it doesn't mean that a new cat will do it: It takes ONLY ONE TIME - chasing a squirrel or bird across the street, and WHAM! Cats can be perfectly happy indoors with tall cat trees by a window, a window perch, the right kind of toys to keep them interested and active. More and more people construct outdoor enclosures; simple ones to really elaborate ones, even just a little window screened porch. I don't believe that cats need to hunt; if they are homeless and hungry, yes, but there's no need for a well-fed cat to kill small wildlife, not for food, but for fun and the reflex of chasing something (could be a toy). -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lorrie Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 7:56 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors This is a hot topic, but I agree humans and loss of habitat are the main threat to birds. As for keeping cats inside. I've had cats all my life and they have always been indoor/outdoor cats. All of them have lived to 16 to 17 years of age unless they've had some genetic problem like heart disease. My cats were all rescues and they lived outside before I had them, and they are totally miserable inside. It's really only the last couple decades that cats have been living indoors, but the invention of cat litter and urban sprawl have made us think all cats have the perfect life indoors, when in reality, cats are happier if they can live outdoors. They are programmed to hunt small animalswhich is the best nutrition for them. They need to climb trees, stalk at night with their night vision, and be free. Cats were not made for sitting in a window sill, and a prison is a prison no matter how many cat toys and kitty kondos we buy for them. It's true that some outdoor cats have a shorter life expectancy, but this mostly depends on where they live. If they live in a safe area with little or no traffic then I feel they should be allowed to be outside. There are some cats who will never willingly settle for the indoor life. We live
Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
Our shelter has an indoor only policy. The cat can go out if you have it with you on a leash or if it is in an enclosed patio which it cannot get out of you are present at all times. Otherwise we will remove the cat from the home. There are about 4 cats in my neighborhood who have been killed by irresponsible people letting their dogs loose. Not to mention the ones which have gotten run over. Beth Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org --- On Wed, 3/23/11, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: From: Natalie at...@optonline.net Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Wednesday, March 23, 2011, 12:04 PM You are 100% correct in saying: Sorry but I 100% DISAGREE with cats are wild animals and need to live outside point of view. Cats were indeed wild at one time; but since they have been domesticated for a few thousand years and allowed to over breed, causing many to revert to being feral, we are obligated to do as much as we can (and I can see that 100% of people in this group are doing so) to rectify all the misdoings of mankind. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Edna Taylor Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 11:40 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors Just because your kid likes to eat McDonald's every day or binge drink or do drugs because it makes them happy is NOT a reason to allow it. The same reasoning goes for cats, just because they LIKE it doesn't mean it's good for them. My cats may be prisoners in my house but I sleep well at night knowing they are loved and safe and from what I can tell, they are pretty freakin happy. I have picked up enough broken and battered bodies off the roadways to know that NONE of my cats or fosters will EVER be allowed outside unless it is in a safe enclosure or on a leash. There was a young individual (can't call him a man because real men do not torture animals) in Dallas that took his neighbor's inside/outside cat and over a course of several hours beat and tortured the cat and video taped the entire thing. THAT is what happens to outdoor cats. While some may be lucky enough to escape being tortured, hit by cars, eaten by coyotes or hawks or owls, most do not escape this fate. Sorry but I 100% DISAGREE with cats are wild animals and need to live outside point of view. Just my 2 cents. Edna Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 09:13:09 -0400 From: at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors As an adopter, my views on this are very strict and well-defined - I am responsible for placing cats in the safest possible homes, and I would do no less. I need to be able to sleep at night, knowing that the cats that I rescued and invested so much time, energy, and emotion will be safe and happy for a long time. Yes, I agree, there still are a few safe area left, but not many and none are 100% safe, ever. It is true that times used to be safer for cats to be outdoors - ours always had been, especially when I was growing up, until one of our kittens was killed by a carUnfortunately, it takes many people to understand this only after a tragedy occurs. When an adopter tells me that their cat ALWAYS sat on the front porch, and never leftand they intend to do the same with a new adopted cat, I say NO! Their old cat may have indeed done that, but it doesn't mean that a new cat will do it: It takes ONLY ONE TIME - chasing a squirrel or bird across the street, and WHAM! Cats can be perfectly happy indoors with tall cat trees by a window, a window perch, the right kind of toys to keep them interested and active. More and more people construct outdoor enclosures; simple ones to really elaborate ones, even just a little window screened porch. I don't believe that cats need to hunt; if they are homeless and hungry, yes, but there's no need for a well-fed cat to kill small wildlife, not for food, but for fun and the reflex of chasing something (could be a toy). -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lorrie Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 7:56 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors This is a hot topic, but I agree humans and loss of habitat are the main threat to birds. As for keeping cats inside. I've had cats all my life and they have always been indoor/outdoor cats. All of them have lived to 16 to 17 years of age unless they've had some genetic problem like heart disease. My cats were all rescues and they lived outside before I had them, and they are totally miserable inside. It's really only the last couple decades that cats have been living indoors, but the invention of cat litter and urban sprawl have made us think all cats have the perfect life indoors, when
Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
This is not an easy call. Growing up, we always had stray cats who found us all were indoor/outdoor. Of course, it was way different then my mother always made sure they came in at night. They all went to the vet to be s/n then not again until they became ill towards the end of their lives. We had 3 generations all lived to their early 20's. But we also fed whoever showed up some would ultimately come in and out. One of those was poisoned by a neighbor another was killed by a car. My own cats are all indoor--I live on the 6th floor of an apt building-LOL. All came in as strays of different ages. Interestingly enough, the one who never had any interest in what was going on outside (didn't sit on window, didn't run for front door, didn't try to sneak out on balcony), was the late great Romeo. He was around 3 or 4 when I brought him in he always seemed to have the attitude been there, done that!. I don't know that I wouldn't let them out if I lived in a very rural area... but I know about the predators out there so I suspect I'd probably ruin it for them by hovering-LOL -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Beth Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 12:12 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors Our shelter has an indoor only policy. The cat can go out if you have it with you on a leash or if it is in an enclosed patio which it cannot get out of you are present at all times. Otherwise we will remove the cat from the home. There are about 4 cats in my neighborhood who have been killed by irresponsible people letting their dogs loose. Not to mention the ones which have gotten run over. Beth Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org --- On Wed, 3/23/11, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: From: Natalie at...@optonline.net Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Wednesday, March 23, 2011, 12:04 PM You are 100% correct in saying: Sorry but I 100% DISAGREE with cats are wild animals and need to live outside point of view. Cats were indeed wild at one time; but since they have been domesticated for a few thousand years and allowed to over breed, causing many to revert to being feral, we are obligated to do as much as we can (and I can see that 100% of people in this group are doing so) to rectify all the misdoings of mankind. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Edna Taylor Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 11:40 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors Just because your kid likes to eat McDonald's every day or binge drink or do drugs because it makes them happy is NOT a reason to allow it. The same reasoning goes for cats, just because they LIKE it doesn't mean it's good for them. My cats may be prisoners in my house but I sleep well at night knowing they are loved and safe and from what I can tell, they are pretty freakin happy. I have picked up enough broken and battered bodies off the roadways to know that NONE of my cats or fosters will EVER be allowed outside unless it is in a safe enclosure or on a leash. There was a young individual (can't call him a man because real men do not torture animals) in Dallas that took his neighbor's inside/outside cat and over a course of several hours beat and tortured the cat and video taped the entire thing. THAT is what happens to outdoor cats. While some may be lucky enough to escape being tortured, hit by cars, eaten by coyotes or hawks or owls, most do not escape this fate. Sorry but I 100% DISAGREE with cats are wild animals and need to live outside point of view. Just my 2 cents. Edna Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 09:13:09 -0400 From: at...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors As an adopter, my views on this are very strict and well-defined - I am responsible for placing cats in the safest possible homes, and I would do no less. I need to be able to sleep at night, knowing that the cats that I rescued and invested so much time, energy, and emotion will be safe and happy for a long time. Yes, I agree, there still are a few safe area left, but not many and none are 100% safe, ever. It is true that times used to be safer for cats to be outdoors - ours always had been, especially when I was growing up, until one of our kittens was killed by a carUnfortunately, it takes many people to understand this only after a tragedy occurs. When an adopter tells me that their cat ALWAYS sat on the front porch, and never leftand they intend to do the same with a new adopted cat, I say NO! Their old cat may have indeed done that, but it doesn't mean that a new cat will do it: It takes ONLY ONE TIME - chasing a squirrel or bird across the street, and WHAM! Cats can
Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
I guess the birds should have stayed dinosaurs, then... ;-) From: LauraM [mailto:hingebacktorto...@yahoo.com] Sent: Tue 3/22/2011 7:56 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors Yes, the number one cause of bird extinction is habitat loss, but cats are #2. There's a well-known study that was conducted on a couple of adjacent beaches in California, one with a feral cat population and one without. The beach that is home to feral cats has no birds - remember that most shorebirds are ground nesters - while the cat-free beach supports a healthy bird population. Of course, our birds have natural predators - some raptors such as red-tailed hawks prey mostly on birds. Kingsnakes and rat snakes are known for feasting on eggs and hatchlings. But this is natural predation so things are kept in balance. Throw in a highly efficient predator such as a cat and the balance changes. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
Maureen - I am in GA also, and analysis of coyote stomach contents showed that something like 60% of them contained cat remains. I suspect that's why we have such a coyote problem, even in the suburbs - they are supplied with an endless number of cats as prey - somebody's cat goes missing and they just replace it with another one. --- On Wed, 3/23/11, Maureen Olvey molvey...@hotmail.com wrote: From: Maureen Olvey molvey...@hotmail.com Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Wednesday, March 23, 2011, 3:58 AM You can also take it further and reiterate that humans are the #1 killers of birds because of the dummies that let their un-altered pet cats run around outside and breed and have kittens everywhere, not just because of the habitat destruction that we do. I think where I live in GA some of the rodents are getting a reprive because all the coyotes who would normally eat some of the rodents are getting full on my feral cats. It's so sad. I don't hate the coyotes for doing it (just like I don't hate or blame cats for killing other small prey) but it breaks my heart everytime a feral goes missing. All points always come back to the main topic of the importance of keeping the cats indoors (and getting them fixed). All we can do is spread the message and hope it makes a difference. And it my part of the world it has made a huge difference. When I was a kid, no one contemplated keeping a cat indoors it's whole life. But now, more and more people are. I can tell by the people I meet at our adoptions. Things are changing - we just have a long way to go still. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 18:23:12 -0700 From: sin...@sbcglobal.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors LOL Humans are a non-native, introduced and subsidized predators.G This is like expecting pet owners to spay or neuter their pets, interesting idea, one which I would love to see, but seeing and knowing human nature is not going to happen in my lifetime. SomeWhere Sam From: LauraM hingebacktorto...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tue, March 22, 2011 6:42:23 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors I've tried using those statistics on people who refuse to contain their cats, thinking they MIGHT care about wildlife even though they clearly aren't concerned with their cats' own safety. Hasn't worked. There are also people out there who want irresponsible owners of bird-killing cats to be held legally liable, as it's a violation of federal law to kill most bird species has been for decades. And in some areas cats have reduced the rodent population to such low numbers that migrating raptors - all federally protected - have nothing to eat. Cats, as non-native, introduced and subsidized predators, have no business being outside. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
Yikes! I don't like those statistics at all but I believe it. I've been feeding ferals at my office for the last 8 years. Several months back I found one dead and half eaten, then another one went missing not too long after that. A week or two later I saw a coyote in the parking lot of the office building next to us. I work at night a lot so I have more of an opportunity to see them than some people. I stopped leaving food out for my cats at night. After not seeing the coyote for a while I got back in the bad habit of leaving cat food out at night. Just last week I walked outside about 10 PM and there was the coyote at the food dish, which isn't too far away from my front door. The coyote didn't scare me but then I saw my two remaining semi-feral cats running towards me and realized they had been close by while the coyote was eating. I've stopped leaving food out and hopefully he'll move on. I'm so scared for my cats at the office. I wish that if I left a lot of food out for the coyote he'd stay full and leave the cats alone. I don't think it works that way though. He'll still want to chase and kill them because of his instinct. I really wish pet cats could roam outside and enjoy the extra freedom. But stuff like this has made me more of an advocate of keeping them indoors all the time, unless you have a cat fence or something. Loose dogs have always been a problem killing cats but I don't remember having a coyote problem as a kid. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 17:24:10 -0700 From: hingebacktorto...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors Maureen - I am in GA also, and analysis of coyote stomach contents showed that something like 60% of them contained cat remains. I suspect that's why we have such a coyote problem, even in the suburbs - they are supplied with an endless number of cats as prey - somebody's cat goes missing and they just replace it with another one. --- On Wed, 3/23/11, Maureen Olvey molvey...@hotmail.com wrote: From: Maureen Olvey molvey...@hotmail.com Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Wednesday, March 23, 2011, 3:58 AM You can also take it further and reiterate that humans are the #1 killers of birds because of the dummies that let their un-altered pet cats run around outside and breed and have kittens everywhere, not just because of the habitat destruction that we do. I think where I live in GA some of the rodents are getting a reprive because all the coyotes who would normally eat some of the rodents are getting full on my feral cats. It's so sad. I don't hate the coyotes for doing it (just like I don't hate or blame cats for killing other small prey) but it breaks my heart everytime a feral goes missing. All points always come back to the main topic of the importance of keeping the cats indoors (and getting them fixed). All we can do is spread the message and hope it makes a difference. And it my part of the world it has made a huge difference. When I was a kid, no one contemplated keeping a cat indoors it's whole life. But now, more and more people are. I can tell by the people I meet at our adoptions. Things are changing - we just have a long way to go still. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 18:23:12 -0700 From: sin...@sbcglobal.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors LOL Humans are a non-native, introduced and subsidized predators.G This is like expecting pet owners to spay or neuter their pets, interesting idea, one which I would love to see, but seeing and knowing human nature is not going to happen in my lifetime. SomeWhere Sam From: LauraM hingebacktorto...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tue, March 22, 2011 6:42:23 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors I've tried using those statistics on people who refuse to contain their cats, thinking they MIGHT care about wildlife even though they clearly aren't concerned with their cats' own safety. Hasn't worked. There are also people out there who want irresponsible owners of bird-killing cats to be held legally liable, as it's a violation of federal law to kill most bird
[Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
In the newspaper today: House cats are the #1 predator of wild birds. The American Bird Conservancy estimates up to 500 million birds per year are killed by cats. About 400,000 are killed yearly by wind turbines (less than 20% of the number killed by cats). So now we have another reason to keep our cats indoors -- not only for their own health and safety, but for that of our BIRD population! Save the cats and the birds: Keep Your Cat Indoors! ~Bonnie ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
Amen to that! Whenever the cat that we brought back from England got out by accident (not by us), she'd be back in five minutes flat with a bird in her mouth! In addition, about 50% of migrating birds from South America also die by the time they get here I love the idea of wind power, but the death of birds can be alleviated by adding a humming device to them, I've read, but the few extra bucks are not spent willingly on them. Indoor cats live a lot longer than those that live strictly outside and those that are allowed to go out. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Bonnie Hogue Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 3:38 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors Importance: High In the newspaper today: House cats are the #1 predator of wild birds. The American Bird Conservancy estimates up to 500 million birds per year are killed by cats. About 400,000 are killed yearly by wind turbines (less than 20% of the number killed by cats). So now we have another reason to keep our cats indoors -- not only for their own health and safety, but for that of our BIRD population! Save the cats and the birds: Keep Your Cat Indoors! ~Bonnie ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
Sorry but that information is outdated or biased. The number one killer of birds is humans due to habitat loss or construction for same. Humans: The Number One Threat to Birds http://www.alleycat.org/NetCommunity/Page.aspx?pid=325 SomeWhere Sam From: Bonnie Hogue ho...@sonic.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tue, March 22, 2011 2:37:38 PM Subject: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors In the newspaper today: House cats are the #1 predator of wild birds. The American Bird Conservancy estimates up to 500 million birds per year are killed by cats. About 400,000 are killed yearly by wind turbines (less than 20% of the number killed by cats). So now we have another reason to keep our cats indoors -- not only for their own health and safety, but for that of our BIRD population! Save the cats and the birds: Keep Your Cat Indoors! ~Bonnie ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
I was just going to say that Sam! --- On Tue, 3/22/11, SomeWhere Sam sin...@sbcglobal.net wrote: From: SomeWhere Sam sin...@sbcglobal.net Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Tuesday, March 22, 2011, 4:36 PM Sorry but that information is outdated or biased. The number one killer of birds is humans due to habitat loss or construction for same. Humans: The Number One Threat to Birds http://www.alleycat.org/NetCommunity/Page.aspx?pid=325 SomeWhere Sam From: Bonnie Hogue ho...@sonic.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tue, March 22, 2011 2:37:38 PM Subject: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors In the newspaper today: House cats are the #1 predator of wild birds. The American Bird Conservancy estimates up to 500 million birds per year are killed by cats. About 400,000 are killed yearly by wind turbines (less than 20% of the number killed by cats). So now we have another reason to keep our cats indoors -- not only for their own health and safety, but for that of our BIRD population! Save the cats and the birds: Keep Your Cat Indoors! ~Bonnie ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
Me three... On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 4:47 PM, TANYA NOE sashacatgodd...@yahoo.comwrote: I was just going to say that Sam! --- On Tue, 3/22/11, SomeWhere Sam sin...@sbcglobal.net wrote: From: SomeWhere Sam sin...@sbcglobal.net Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Tuesday, March 22, 2011, 4:36 PM Sorry but that information is outdated or biased. The number one killer of birds is humans due to habitat loss or construction for same. Humans: The Number One Threat to Birds http://www.alleycat.org/NetCommunity/Page.aspx?pid=325 SomeWhere Sam From: Bonnie Hogue ho...@sonic.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tue, March 22, 2011 2:37:38 PM Subject: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors In the newspaper today: House cats are the #1 predator of wild birds. The American Bird Conservancy estimates up to 500 million birds per year are killed by cats. About 400,000 are killed yearly by wind turbines (less than 20% of the number killed by cats). So now we have another reason to keep our cats indoors -- not only for their own health and safety, but for that of our BIRD population! Save the cats and the birds: Keep Your Cat Indoors! ~Bonnie ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
Thanks Sam!! You rock! Debbie ~ When the world says, Give up, hope whispers, Try it one more time ~ Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 13:36:23 -0700 From: sin...@sbcglobal.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors Sorry but that information is outdated or biased. The number one killer of birds is humans due to habitat loss or construction for same. Humans: The Number One Threat to Birds http://www.alleycat.org/NetCommunity/Page.aspx?pid=325 SomeWhere Sam From: Bonnie Hogue ho...@sonic.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tue, March 22, 2011 2:37:38 PM Subject: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors In the newspaper today: House cats are the #1 predator of wild birds. The American Bird Conservancy estimates up to 500 million birds per year are killed by cats. About 400,000 are killed yearly by wind turbines (less than 20% of the number killed by cats). So now we have another reason to keep our cats indoors -- not only for their own health and safety, but for that of our BIRD population! Save the cats and the birds: Keep Your Cat Indoors! ~Bonnie ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
Plus indiscriminate use of poisons in the landscapeeverything has to be sooo vvverrryyy neat. On Mar 22, 2011, at 3:47 PM, TANYA NOE wrote: I was just going to say that Sam! --- On Tue, 3/22/11, SomeWhere Sam sin...@sbcglobal.net wrote: From: SomeWhere Sam sin...@sbcglobal.net Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Tuesday, March 22, 2011, 4:36 PM Sorry but that information is outdated or biased. The number one killer of birds is humans due to habitat loss or construction for same. Humans: The Number One Threat to Birds http://www.alleycat.org/NetCommunity/Page.aspx?pid=325 SomeWhere Sam From: Bonnie Hogue ho...@sonic.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tue, March 22, 2011 2:37:38 PM Subject: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors In the newspaper today: House cats are the #1 predator of wild birds. The American Bird Conservancy estimates up to 500 million birds per year are killed by cats. About 400,000 are killed yearly by wind turbines (less than 20% of the number killed by cats). So now we have another reason to keep our cats indoors -- not only for their own health and safety, but for that of our BIRD population! Save the cats and the birds: Keep Your Cat Indoors! ~Bonnie ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/ felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/ felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
Agreed, 100%... But keeping cats indoors will have the double benefit of saving the cat from disaster and reducing bird kills. ~B. - Original Message - From: TANYA NOE sashacatgodd...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 1:47 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors I was just going to say that Sam! --- On Tue, 3/22/11, SomeWhere Sam sin...@sbcglobal.net wrote: From: SomeWhere Sam sin...@sbcglobal.net Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Tuesday, March 22, 2011, 4:36 PM Sorry but that information is outdated or biased. The number one killer of birds is humans due to habitat loss or construction for same. Humans: The Number One Threat to Birds http://www.alleycat.org/NetCommunity/Page.aspx?pid=325 SomeWhere Sam From: Bonnie Hogue ho...@sonic.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tue, March 22, 2011 2:37:38 PM Subject: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors In the newspaper today: House cats are the #1 predator of wild birds. The American Bird Conservancy estimates up to 500 million birds per year are killed by cats. About 400,000 are killed yearly by wind turbines (less than 20% of the number killed by cats). So now we have another reason to keep our cats indoors -- not only for their own health and safety, but for that of our BIRD population! Save the cats and the birds: Keep Your Cat Indoors! ~Bonnie ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
Actually, the leading killers are glass windows...particularly taller structures .car winfshields. But cats are the only bird predators in urban aareas, so they of course would be the largest killer of birds. There are other natural predators in rural areas...including other birds like owls, hawks, etc Sent from my Samsung Epic™ 4G Bonnie Hogue ho...@sonic.net wrote: In the newspaper today: House cats are the #1 predator of wild birds. The American Bird Conservancy estimates up to 500 million birds per year are killed by cats. About 400,000 are killed yearly by wind turbines (less than 20% of the number killed by cats). So now we have another reason to keep our cats indoors -- not only for their own health and safety, but for that of our BIRD population! Save the cats and the birds: Keep Your Cat Indoors! ~Bonnie ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
I see there are a lot of people that take care of ferals and get tired of hearing all the reasons they should be killed, not TNR'd. My answer is always Even if they do kill a lot of birds, TNR is the way to reduce the population so TNR is the best way to save the birds. I didn't know that about glass windows. That's very interesting. I totally advocate keeping your cats indoors though because I live in a town outside of Atlanta but it's a busy small town and I've lost so many ferals to coyotes. Some to cars, but most to coyotes or dogs. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 17:03:06 -0400 From: ti...@mindspring.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors Actually, the leading killers are glass windows...particularly taller structures .car winfshields. But cats are the only bird predators in urban aareas, so they of course would be the largest killer of birds. There are other natural predators in rural areas...including other birds like owls, hawks, etc Sent from my Samsung Epic™ 4G Bonnie Hogue ho...@sonic.net wrote: In the newspaper today: House cats are the #1 predator of wild birds. The American Bird Conservancy estimates up to 500 million birds per year are killed by cats. About 400,000 are killed yearly by wind turbines (less than 20% of the number killed by cats). So now we have another reason to keep our cats indoors -- not only for their own health and safety, but for that of our BIRD population! Save the cats and the birds: Keep Your Cat Indoors! ~Bonnie ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
I was thinking the same thing Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 13:36:23 -0700 From: sin...@sbcglobal.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors Sorry but that information is outdated or biased. The number one killer of birds is humans due to habitat loss or construction for same. Humans: The Number One Threat to Birds http://www.alleycat.org/NetCommunity/Page.aspx?pid=325 SomeWhere Sam From: Bonnie Hogue ho...@sonic.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tue, March 22, 2011 2:37:38 PM Subject: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors In the newspaper today: House cats are the #1 predator of wild birds. The American Bird Conservancy estimates up to 500 million birds per year are killed by cats. About 400,000 are killed yearly by wind turbines (less than 20% of the number killed by cats). So now we have another reason to keep our cats indoors -- not only for their own health and safety, but for that of our BIRD population! Save the cats and the birds: Keep Your Cat Indoors! ~Bonnie ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
Well here locally about 5 years ago 50 acres filled with nesting egrets was bull dozed by a construction company, egrets were lost in huge numbers, more than any that hit windows. Construction company got a slap on the wrist. Again my statement about the #1 Bird Killers are humans stands. Compared to those numbers cats are trivial. SomeWhere Sam From: Christiane Biagi ti...@mindspring.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tue, March 22, 2011 4:03:06 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors Actually, the leading killers are glass windows...particularly taller structures .car winfshields. But cats are the only bird predators in urban aareas, so they of course would be the largest killer of birds. There are other natural predators in rural areas...including other birds like owls, hawks, etc Sent from my Samsung Epic™ 4G Bonnie Hogue ho...@sonic.net wrote: In the newspaper today: House cats are the #1 predator of wild birds. The American Bird Conservancy estimates up to 500 million birds per year are killed by cats. About 400,000 are killed yearly by wind turbines (less than 20% of the number killed by cats). So now we have another reason to keep our cats indoors -- not only for their own health and safety, but for that of our BIRD population! Save the cats and the birds: Keep Your Cat Indoors! ~Bonnie ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
I've tried using those statistics on people who refuse to contain their cats, thinking they MIGHT care about wildlife even though they clearly aren't concerned with their cats' own safety. Hasn't worked. There are also people out there who want irresponsible owners of bird-killing cats to be held legally liable, as it's a violation of federal law to kill most bird species has been for decades. And in some areas cats have reduced the rodent population to such low numbers that migrating raptors - all federally protected - have nothing to eat. Cats, as non-native, introduced and subsidized predators, have no business being outside. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
Yes, the number one cause of bird extinction is habitat loss, but cats are #2. There's a well-known study that was conducted on a couple of adjacent beaches in California, one with a feral cat population and one without. The beach that is home to feral cats has no birds - remember that most shorebirds are ground nesters - while the cat-free beach supports a healthy bird population. Of course, our birds have natural predators - some raptors such as red-tailed hawks prey mostly on birds. Kingsnakes and rat snakes are known for feasting on eggs and hatchlings. But this is natural predation so things are kept in balance. Throw in a highly efficient predator such as a cat and the balance changes. --- On Tue, 3/22/11, SomeWhere Sam sin...@sbcglobal.net wrote: From: SomeWhere Sam sin...@sbcglobal.net Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Tuesday, March 22, 2011, 4:36 PM Sorry but that information is outdated or biased. The number one killer of birds is humans due to habitat loss or construction for same. Humans: The Number One Threat to Birds http://www.alleycat.org/NetCommunity/Page.aspx?pid=325 SomeWhere Sam From: Bonnie Hogue ho...@sonic.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tue, March 22, 2011 2:37:38 PM Subject: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors In the newspaper today: House cats are the #1 predator of wild birds. The American Bird Conservancy estimates up to 500 million birds per year are killed by cats. About 400,000 are killed yearly by wind turbines (less than 20% of the number killed by cats). So now we have another reason to keep our cats indoors -- not only for their own health and safety, but for that of our BIRD population! Save the cats and the birds: Keep Your Cat Indoors! ~Bonnie ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
I have ferals the birds seem smart enough to stay out of my yard. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: LauraM hingebacktorto...@yahoo.com Sender: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 16:56:46 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Reply-To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors Yes, the number one cause of bird extinction is habitat loss, but cats are #2. There's a well-known study that was conducted on a couple of adjacent beaches in California, one with a feral cat population and one without. The beach that is home to feral cats has no birds - remember that most shorebirds are ground nesters - while the cat-free beach supports a healthy bird population. Of course, our birds have natural predators - some raptors such as red-tailed hawks prey mostly on birds. Kingsnakes and rat snakes are known for feasting on eggs and hatchlings. But this is natural predation so things are kept in balance. Throw in a highly efficient predator such as a cat and the balance changes. --- On Tue, 3/22/11, SomeWhere Sam sin...@sbcglobal.net wrote: From: SomeWhere Sam sin...@sbcglobal.net Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Tuesday, March 22, 2011, 4:36 PM Sorry but that information is outdated or biased. The number one killer of birds is humans due to habitat loss or construction for same. Humans: The Number One Threat to Birds http://www.alleycat.org/NetCommunity/Page.aspx?pid=325 SomeWhere Sam From: Bonnie Hogue ho...@sonic.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tue, March 22, 2011 2:37:38 PM Subject: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors In the newspaper today: House cats are the #1 predator of wild birds. The American Bird Conservancy estimates up to 500 million birds per year are killed by cats. About 400,000 are killed yearly by wind turbines (less than 20% of the number killed by cats). So now we have another reason to keep our cats indoors -- not only for their own health and safety, but for that of our BIRD population! Save the cats and the birds: Keep Your Cat Indoors! ~Bonnie ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
Mine too. Those who aren't smart enough probably need to be removed from the genetic pool just as mice who come into a a home occupied by cats for 25+ years. I don't like it but do consider it fact. On Mar 22, 2011, at 7:16 PM, create_me_...@yahoo.com wrote: I have ferals the birds seem smart enough to stay out of my yard. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: LauraM hingebacktorto...@yahoo.com Sender: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 16:56:46 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Reply-To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors Yes, the number one cause of bird extinction is habitat loss, but cats are #2. There's a well-known study that was conducted on a couple of adjacent beaches in California, one with a feral cat population and one without. The beach that is home to feral cats has no birds - remember that most shorebirds are ground nesters - while the cat- free beach supports a healthy bird population. Of course, our birds have natural predators - some raptors such as red-tailed hawks prey mostly on birds. Kingsnakes and rat snakes are known for feasting on eggs and hatchlings. But this is natural predation so things are kept in balance. Throw in a highly efficient predator such as a cat and the balance changes. --- On Tue, 3/22/11, SomeWhere Sam sin...@sbcglobal.net wrote: From: SomeWhere Sam sin...@sbcglobal.net Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Tuesday, March 22, 2011, 4:36 PM Sorry but that information is outdated or biased. The number one killer of birds is humans due to habitat loss or construction for same. Humans: The Number One Threat to Birds http://www.alleycat.org/NetCommunity/Page.aspx?pid=325 SomeWhere Sam From: Bonnie Hogue ho...@sonic.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tue, March 22, 2011 2:37:38 PM Subject: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors In the newspaper today: House cats are the #1 predator of wild birds. The American Bird Conservancy estimates up to 500 million birds per year are killed by cats. About 400,000 are killed yearly by wind turbines (less than 20% of the number killed by cats). So now we have another reason to keep our cats indoors -- not only for their own health and safety, but for that of our BIRD population! Save the cats and the birds: Keep Your Cat Indoors! ~Bonnie ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
My crazy Fuji just wants to make friends with them. She brought us a bird that fell out of a nest once. She brought another one, and then let it go (alive) when it was time to come in. I have caught her a few times with the hamster, but she has never hurt her. I suppose she just doesn't realize that she is a hunter! Sent from my iPhone On Mar 23, 2011, at 9:16 AM, create_me_...@yahoo.com wrote: I have ferals the birds seem smart enough to stay out of my yard. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: LauraM hingebacktorto...@yahoo.com Sender: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 16:56:46 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Reply-To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors Yes, the number one cause of bird extinction is habitat loss, but cats are #2. There's a well-known study that was conducted on a couple of adjacent beaches in California, one with a feral cat population and one without. The beach that is home to feral cats has no birds - remember that most shorebirds are ground nesters - while the cat-free beach supports a healthy bird population. Of course, our birds have natural predators - some raptors such as red-tailed hawks prey mostly on birds. Kingsnakes and rat snakes are known for feasting on eggs and hatchlings. But this is natural predation so things are kept in balance. Throw in a highly efficient predator such as a cat and the balance changes. --- On Tue, 3/22/11, SomeWhere Sam sin...@sbcglobal.net wrote: From: SomeWhere Sam sin...@sbcglobal.net Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Tuesday, March 22, 2011, 4:36 PM Sorry but that information is outdated or biased. The number one killer of birds is humans due to habitat loss or construction for same. Humans: The Number One Threat to Birds http://www.alleycat.org/NetCommunity/Page.aspx?pid=325 SomeWhere Sam From: Bonnie Hogue ho...@sonic.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tue, March 22, 2011 2:37:38 PM Subject: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors In the newspaper today: House cats are the #1 predator of wild birds. The American Bird Conservancy estimates up to 500 million birds per year are killed by cats. About 400,000 are killed yearly by wind turbines (less than 20% of the number killed by cats). So now we have another reason to keep our cats indoors -- not only for their own health and safety, but for that of our BIRD population! Save the cats and the birds: Keep Your Cat Indoors! ~Bonnie ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
All too true. In Milwaukee, once, I saw a terrified wolf on the downtown expressway being chased down by law enforcement (I think that ended badly for the wolf :-() And all along my former bus route between Milwaukee and Racine you can see deer and wolves in the fields-that-used-to-be-woods that have been displaced by road and building construction. My friend on the west side of Milwaukee is nervous about taking her dog for a walk at night because she's near train tracks and coyotes are common along them, now, having followed the tracks into urban areas looking for food. It's really nuts the way some idiots build, build, build and then have the nerve to blame cats for bird depredation. Oh, I know that outside cats account for a considerable number of birds, squirrels, and the like, but humans are a way bigger threat. That being said, I am a strong advocate of keeping cats indoors for their well-being. Diane R. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of SomeWhere Sam Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 3:36 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors Sorry but that information is outdated or biased. The number one killer of birds is humans due to habitat loss or construction for same. Humans: The Number One Threat to Birds http://www.alleycat.org/NetCommunity/Page.aspx?pid=325 SomeWhere Sam From: Bonnie Hogue ho...@sonic.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tue, March 22, 2011 2:37:38 PM Subject: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors In the newspaper today: House cats are the #1 predator of wild birds. The American Bird Conservancy estimates up to 500 million birds per year are killed by cats. About 400,000 are killed yearly by wind turbines (less than 20% of the number killed by cats). So now we have another reason to keep our cats indoors -- not only for their own health and safety, but for that of our BIRD population! Save the cats and the birds: Keep Your Cat Indoors! ~Bonnie ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
Yes, humans have negatively impacted the planet in a number of ways, to be sure. And in retrospect, I think my post was inappropriate. My points were only (1) to further encourage folks to keep their cats indoors for (as you point out) their well-being; and (2) highlight the incredible number of birds killed by cats each year. The numbers astounded me, which is what motivated the post. I'm a big-time cat lover (just ask my four furry housemates) AND a big-time bird lover. And never the twain shall meet! ~Bonnie - Original Message - From: Diane Rosenfeldt drosenfe...@wi.rr.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 5:39 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors All too true. In Milwaukee, once, I saw a terrified wolf on the downtown expressway being chased down by law enforcement (I think that ended badly for the wolf :-() And all along my former bus route between Milwaukee and Racine you can see deer and wolves in the fields-that-used-to-be-woods that have been displaced by road and building construction. My friend on the west side of Milwaukee is nervous about taking her dog for a walk at night because she's near train tracks and coyotes are common along them, now, having followed the tracks into urban areas looking for food. It's really nuts the way some idiots build, build, build and then have the nerve to blame cats for bird depredation. Oh, I know that outside cats account for a considerable number of birds, squirrels, and the like, but humans are a way bigger threat. That being said, I am a strong advocate of keeping cats indoors for their well-being. Diane R. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of SomeWhere Sam Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 3:36 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors Sorry but that information is outdated or biased. The number one killer of birds is humans due to habitat loss or construction for same. Humans: The Number One Threat to Birds http://www.alleycat.org/NetCommunity/Page.aspx?pid=325 SomeWhere Sam From: Bonnie Hogue ho...@sonic.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tue, March 22, 2011 2:37:38 PM Subject: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors In the newspaper today: House cats are the #1 predator of wild birds. The American Bird Conservancy estimates up to 500 million birds per year are killed by cats. About 400,000 are killed yearly by wind turbines (less than 20% of the number killed by cats). So now we have another reason to keep our cats indoors -- not only for their own health and safety, but for that of our BIRD population! Save the cats and the birds: Keep Your Cat Indoors! ~Bonnie ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
That doesn't mean it was wrongjust that there are other things to consider. My personal cats are house cats. There are ferals and those who are passing by that I care abouta lot. These guys have a different life style...not right or wrong but different. I wish all cats could have a home. Not happening. I wish all cats wanted to have inside homes...definately not happening. Life is as it is. On Mar 22, 2011, at 8:12 PM, Bonnie Hogue wrote: Yes, humans have negatively impacted the planet in a number of ways, to be sure. And in retrospect, I think my post was inappropriate. My points were only (1) to further encourage folks to keep their cats indoors for (as you point out) their well-being; and (2) highlight the incredible number of birds killed by cats each year. The numbers astounded me, which is what motivated the post. I'm a big-time cat lover (just ask my four furry housemates) AND a big-time bird lover. And never the twain shall meet! ~Bonnie - Original Message - From: Diane Rosenfeldt drosenfe...@wi.rr.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 5:39 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors All too true. In Milwaukee, once, I saw a terrified wolf on the downtown expressway being chased down by law enforcement (I think that ended badly for the wolf :-() And all along my former bus route between Milwaukee and Racine you can see deer and wolves in the fields-that-used-to-be- woods that have been displaced by road and building construction. My friend on the west side of Milwaukee is nervous about taking her dog for a walk at night because she's near train tracks and coyotes are common along them, now, having followed the tracks into urban areas looking for food. It's really nuts the way some idiots build, build, build and then have the nerve to blame cats for bird depredation. Oh, I know that outside cats account for a considerable number of birds, squirrels, and the like, but humans are a way bigger threat. That being said, I am a strong advocate of keeping cats indoors for their well-being. Diane R. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of SomeWhere Sam Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 3:36 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors Sorry but that information is outdated or biased. The number one killer of birds is humans due to habitat loss or construction for same. Humans: The Number One Threat to Birds http://www.alleycat.org/NetCommunity/Page.aspx?pid=325 SomeWhere Sam From: Bonnie Hogue ho...@sonic.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tue, March 22, 2011 2:37:38 PM Subject: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors In the newspaper today: House cats are the #1 predator of wild birds. The American Bird Conservancy estimates up to 500 million birds per year are killed by cats. About 400,000 are killed yearly by wind turbines (less than 20% of the number killed by cats). So now we have another reason to keep our cats indoors -- not only for their own health and safety, but for that of our BIRD population! Save the cats and the birds: Keep Your Cat Indoors! ~Bonnie ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/ felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/ felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/ felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
LOL Humans are a non-native, introduced and subsidized predators.G This is like expecting pet owners to spay or neuter their pets, interesting idea, one which I would love to see, but seeing and knowing human nature is not going to happen in my lifetime. SomeWhere Sam From: LauraM hingebacktorto...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tue, March 22, 2011 6:42:23 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors I've tried using those statistics on people who refuse to contain their cats, thinking they MIGHT care about wildlife even though they clearly aren't concerned with their cats' own safety. Hasn't worked. There are also people out there who want irresponsible owners of bird-killing cats to be held legally liable, as it's a violation of federal law to kill most bird species has been for decades. And in some areas cats have reduced the rodent population to such low numbers that migrating raptors - all federally protected - have nothing to eat. Cats, as non-native, introduced and subsidized predators, have no business being outside. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
It is true... Loss of habitat is number one. Thanks for bringing it up. Sally On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 4:36 PM, SomeWhere Sam sin...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Sorry but that information is outdated or biased. The number one killer of birds is humans due to habitat loss or construction for same. Humans: The Number One Threat to Birds http://www.alleycat.org/NetCommunity/Page.aspx?pid=325 SomeWhere Sam From: Bonnie Hogue ho...@sonic.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tue, March 22, 2011 2:37:38 PM Subject: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors In the newspaper today: House cats are the #1 predator of wild birds. The American Bird Conservancy estimates up to 500 million birds per year are killed by cats. About 400,000 are killed yearly by wind turbines (less than 20% of the number killed by cats). So now we have another reason to keep our cats indoors -- not only for their own health and safety, but for that of our BIRD population! Save the cats and the birds: Keep Your Cat Indoors! ~Bonnie ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
My rationale in telling adopters is: Cats that are kept indoors cost cat owners a lot less money spent at the vet than those that go outdoors - it has actually been proven. Cats that go out are in danger of contracting diseases from other cats, getting injuries from fights with other cats (abscesses from bites, etc), worms from eating wildlife, fleas (tapeworm), attacked by wildlife and roaming dogs, cars, and nasty people! Statistically, cats that live only outdoors, rarely make it past 3 yrs old; cats that live inside and go outside a lot, average 5-6 years, and cats that are kept strictly indoors, can live a very long time...yes, there are exceptions to each category, depending on luck and genes. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Melinda Kerr Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 8:26 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors My crazy Fuji just wants to make friends with them. She brought us a bird that fell out of a nest once. She brought another one, and then let it go (alive) when it was time to come in. I have caught her a few times with the hamster, but she has never hurt her. I suppose she just doesn't realize that she is a hunter! Sent from my iPhone On Mar 23, 2011, at 9:16 AM, create_me_...@yahoo.com wrote: I have ferals the birds seem smart enough to stay out of my yard. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: LauraM hingebacktorto...@yahoo.com Sender: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 16:56:46 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Reply-To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors Yes, the number one cause of bird extinction is habitat loss, but cats are #2. There's a well-known study that was conducted on a couple of adjacent beaches in California, one with a feral cat population and one without. The beach that is home to feral cats has no birds - remember that most shorebirds are ground nesters - while the cat-free beach supports a healthy bird population. Of course, our birds have natural predators - some raptors such as red-tailed hawks prey mostly on birds. Kingsnakes and rat snakes are known for feasting on eggs and hatchlings. But this is natural predation so things are kept in balance. Throw in a highly efficient predator such as a cat and the balance changes. --- On Tue, 3/22/11, SomeWhere Sam sin...@sbcglobal.net wrote: From: SomeWhere Sam sin...@sbcglobal.net Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Tuesday, March 22, 2011, 4:36 PM Sorry but that information is outdated or biased. The number one killer of birds is humans due to habitat loss or construction for same. Humans: The Number One Threat to Birds http://www.alleycat.org/NetCommunity/Page.aspx?pid=325 SomeWhere Sam From: Bonnie Hogue ho...@sonic.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tue, March 22, 2011 2:37:38 PM Subject: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors In the newspaper today: House cats are the #1 predator of wild birds. The American Bird Conservancy estimates up to 500 million birds per year are killed by cats. About 400,000 are killed yearly by wind turbines (less than 20% of the number killed by cats). So now we have another reason to keep our cats indoors -- not only for their own health and safety, but for that of our BIRD population! Save the cats and the birds: Keep Your Cat Indoors! ~Bonnie ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
With coyotes, all you have to do is wave your arms a lot and yell.. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Diane Rosenfeldt Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 8:39 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors All too true. In Milwaukee, once, I saw a terrified wolf on the downtown expressway being chased down by law enforcement (I think that ended badly for the wolf :-() And all along my former bus route between Milwaukee and Racine you can see deer and wolves in the fields-that-used-to-be-woods that have been displaced by road and building construction. My friend on the west side of Milwaukee is nervous about taking her dog for a walk at night because she's near train tracks and coyotes are common along them, now, having followed the tracks into urban areas looking for food. It's really nuts the way some idiots build, build, build and then have the nerve to blame cats for bird depredation. Oh, I know that outside cats account for a considerable number of birds, squirrels, and the like, but humans are a way bigger threat. That being said, I am a strong advocate of keeping cats indoors for their well-being. Diane R. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of SomeWhere Sam Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 3:36 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors Sorry but that information is outdated or biased. The number one killer of birds is humans due to habitat loss or construction for same. Humans: The Number One Threat to Birds http://www.alleycat.org/NetCommunity/Page.aspx?pid=325 SomeWhere Sam From: Bonnie Hogue ho...@sonic.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tue, March 22, 2011 2:37:38 PM Subject: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors In the newspaper today: House cats are the #1 predator of wild birds. The American Bird Conservancy estimates up to 500 million birds per year are killed by cats. About 400,000 are killed yearly by wind turbines (less than 20% of the number killed by cats). So now we have another reason to keep our cats indoors -- not only for their own health and safety, but for that of our BIRD population! Save the cats and the birds: Keep Your Cat Indoors! ~Bonnie ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
