Re: [Flightgear-devel] May I help with scenery?
On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 00:06:17 + Jon Stockill wrote: 3. From this we'll generate an archive of scenery models (this may or may not be broken down into scenery areas - it depends on the size), and the objects tree, which is likely to be broken down into the standard 10 degree square scenery chunks - to use it you'd download the chunks that match your scenery, and the model archive. Oh! I get it now (I think) -- so your plan is not to necessarily distribute objects (e.g. a dload of the Eiffel Tower) or unified groups of objects (e.g. a dload of the buildings at Orly), but instead portions of the Scenery/Objects tree that have been fleshed out with the uploaded objects (e.g. a dload of Scenery/Objects/e000n40). If someone uploads the Sears Tower, another person would dload it not by dloading the Sears Tower, but by dloading the 10x10 or 1x1 scenery chunk that contains it, which might also contain other objects (shared or static) that people have uploaded. Right? That's a neat idea -- I hadn't been thinking in terms of that paradigm at all. I'd been thinking just in terms of the way the other FS dload sites do it, which make sense for e.g. MSFS but is probably not the best way to proceed for FG. One other possibility you might wanna consider is allowing uploads/ dloads of terrain (e.g. tiles modified through fgsd). I don't know what the best way to handle this is, especially given the possibility of conflicts with later official terrain builds. I have objects I've placed where if I put them at their GPS-measured coordinates, they'd be in water, because the river's a quarter-mile off its correct location. It'd be nice to be able to pass along fixed-up tiles. Anyway, just a thought. -c -- Chris Metzler [EMAIL PROTECTED] (remove snip-me. to email) As a child I understood how to give; I have forgotten this grace since I have become civilized. - Chief Luther Standing Bear pgpqGZWAfbIiE.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] May I help with scenery?
On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 07:13:46 + (UTC) Martin Spott wrote: Chris Metzler wrote: So to make sure I'm getting it, your plan is to have an FTP site for uploads and the website for dloads (what's the procedure for stuff making it over from one to the other)? Well, what would you expect us to do ? I have no idea; that's why I asked. I believe we won't ask for everyone's approval before placing an object on the website Of course. I was simply curious whether stuff would get automatically moved over, or whether you had plans to test out the robustness of contributions beforehand (which seems liked it could evolve into a huge task), and how you might resolve conflicting contributions (someone uploads and object that someone else has already done), and things like that. -c -- Chris Metzler [EMAIL PROTECTED] (remove snip-me. to email) As a child I understood how to give; I have forgotten this grace since I have become civilized. - Chief Luther Standing Bear pgpRZkkOMRkHl.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] May I help with scenery?
On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 00:09:43 + Jon Stockill wrote: Chris Metzler wrote: Oh, one other thing. If the plan is to combine Jon's UK info with info submitted by others to develop a model location database, you might find my post from that Scenery thread interesting -- it's something I'm willing to contribute annually or whatever . . . I would imaging it should be fairly easy to import that information automatically, assigning appropriate models based on the description. If these are put into their own group then it also becomes easy to remove them from the database before importing an updated version - I'd definitely be interested. I already have a python script for pushing the magic carpet around from lat/lon to lat/lon in FG for extracting ground elevations. If it seems to you like a reasonable thing for me to do, I'll start generating ground elevations for chunks of this dataset? There are over 100,000 objects in the FAA's Digital Obstruction File, so it's bound to take a while. If there's an ASCII format you'd prefer to get the data in, I'd like to see a line or two of it so that I can send stuff to you in a way that's simplest for you. Also, if there's a particular subset of the data (e.g. cooling towers) you'd like to see first, that's easy enough to do as well. -c -- Chris Metzler [EMAIL PROTECTED] (remove snip-me. to email) As a child I understood how to give; I have forgotten this grace since I have become civilized. - Chief Luther Standing Bear pgpY6MbYQM0SC.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] May I help with scenery?
Hi Chris, SGI bitmap format that FlightGear uses. For making models, the apps that are popular on Linux (Blender, AC3D) are cross-platform, and other apps that are available to Windows users but not to Linux users (e.g. 3DSMax) will work as well. I'm trying out AC3D, would you suggest that? I'd love to know that it's not a complete waste of time insisting in using this OS, so ... Who is still maintaing world sceneries? Should I contact someone in order to coordinate the efforts? It depends on what you're really asking here. Curtis Olson builds and maintains the official terrain, and keeps the official ground scenery that's distributed with that terrain. At present, that ground ... other. Hopefully Curt or Erik or David or someone else more knowledgeable than I am will comment on this. I'd like to include buildings of the city I leave in. I'm not in the mood of filling the terrain area with trees or randomly generated buildings. I'd like to (virtually) fly over my city and recognize villas, the City Hall, the Cathedral, maybe the Football Stadium and so on. If OTOH you're not asking about official inclusion into FlightGear, Please slow down. I'm just starting at collecting informations here, in order to decide if and how is it possible to contribute to the scenery. If that will be including my work into the official F.G. release is not even taken into account right now. It's too early. I will be happy if I succeed in adding a single realistic 3D object into an official scenery and if I get to correct (and I mean here: correct not modify) any costline or wrong height of the terrain of the city I leave into. but rather about efforts by users and developers to create ground scenery and share it amongst each other That's more my point of view (at least now). I consider it a good starting point. Well, there are two issues. The first is that the .bgl format used for MSFS is pretty hard to break down into models. That's a pity. I was confident I could use such files, that closes a promising scenario :-( Anyway I'll investigate further. The second, more important issue is that of licensing. While one could certainly use such scenery oneself, or (in the case of the freeware stuff) distribute it to other interestedFlightGear users independent of FlightGear, it almost always couldn't be distributed *with* FlightGear, even if free. The problem is that nearly all freeware comes with a license that is incompatible with the one that FlightGear uses (the GPL). The GPL doesn't place restrictions on what people do with the software once they've obtained it. In particular, if they wanna sell or re-sell it, they can. Nearly all freeware comes with a restriction preventing any commercial use. That's incompatible with the GPL. That could be not an issue if the original creator of the .bgl releases the F.G. converted file under GPL too. Just an idea :-) Roberto ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] May I help with scenery?
Chris Metzler wrote: Oh! I get it now (I think) -- so your plan is not to necessarily distribute objects (e.g. a dload of the Eiffel Tower) or unified groups of objects (e.g. a dload of the buildings at Orly), but instead portions of the Scenery/Objects tree that have been fleshed out with the uploaded objects (e.g. a dload of Scenery/Objects/e000n40). If someone uploads the Sears Tower, another person would dload it not by dloading the Sears Tower, but by dloading the 10x10 or 1x1 scenery chunk that contains it, Not the whole scenery chunk - you still get this from the well-known places. We are going to distribute everything that is necessary to _add_ the models to the existing scenery. This includes everything that belongs to the model itself (geometry, XMS description, texture, whatever this might be) plus a copy of the updated .stg file. As we store _everything_ in the database we are very flexible when it comes to create a 'collection' of objects for a specific scenery chunk and we are able to create the respective .stg file on the fly - depending on what's in there. One other possibility you might wanna consider is allowing uploads/ dloads of terrain (e.g. tiles modified through fgsd). This is not as easy as it sounds because you'd have to redo the tiles on every scenery update. The right way to incorporate manual scenery changes would be to parametrize these changes and provide a method to add them to the automatic scenery build. Typically this sort of undertaking is called GIS - Geographic Information System (like GRASS). Currently there is one drawback as the available OpenSource database add-ons (PostGIS, this is one reason why I love PostgreSQL so much) can handle 2D objects of almost any type really fine (it's fun so see a map being drawn out of a database) but they don't handle elevation data. We might start this by putting roads, railways, rivers and lakes into such a database to allow for manual tweaking if someone is willing to add a PostGIS interface to the TerraGear toolbox - and Curt agrees on to proceed on this path Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] May I help with scenery?
Chris Metzler wrote: Of course. I was simply curious whether stuff would get automatically moved over, or whether you had plans to test out the robustness of contributions beforehand We're going to implement a 'filter'. Every object that survives a test-run and appears to make sense will be applied to the database. We probably will increase the amount of automation as time proceeds, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] May I help with scenery?
Chris Metzler wrote: I already have a python script for pushing the magic carpet around from lat/lon to lat/lon in FG for extracting ground elevations. If it seems to you like a reasonable thing for me to do, I'll start generating ground elevations for chunks of this dataset? In the long run starting FG just for getting elevation numbers is a bit too much of overhead. I already 'triggered' Fred Bouvier if he'd agree to extract a portion out of his FGSD - and with a bit of luck he gives us a hand ;-) Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Real weather fetch
Pablo J. wrote: Hi Everyone! Regarding real weather processing from live METAR reports, please consider providing the capability to load the weather conditions from a file, not only from live stations. It may be possible for someone to wish to fly FGFS right now but using the actual weather from some day in the past, and those particular conditions are available through the respective METAR file. That capability will allow for example, that someone take-off from his local airport with the stormy and rainy nigth conditions from four days ago, just right now that the sun is shinning!! Please discard this posting if this capability is already present, It's not present at the moment. Something similar has been mentioned though but I assume it's not high on anybodies priority list. I've no time to try even the real weather fecth by myself. You don't have time to add th following to your command-line? --enable-real-weather-fetch Erik ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] May I help with scenery?
Chris Metzler wrote: I already have a python script for pushing the magic carpet around from lat/lon to lat/lon in FG for extracting ground elevations. If it seems to you like a reasonable thing for me to do, I'll start generating ground elevations for chunks of this dataset? There are over 100,000 objects in the FAA's Digital Obstruction File, so it's bound to take a while. If there's an ASCII format you'd prefer to get the data in, I'd like to see a line or two of it so that I can send stuff to you in a way that's simplest for you. Also, if there's a particular subset of the data (e.g. cooling towers) you'd like to see first, that's easy enough to do as well. Actually, I have a script which measures ground elevation in just the way you mention, and all objects are inserted into the database with an elevation of -, these are then batch updated by the script - this isn't to say that you couldn't submit it complete with heights though (although it'd make sense to ensure we're using the same scenery version). Before I moved to using the database I held all this info in plain text files, 1 record per line, with colon seperated fields. Lat/Lon was combined into a single position field (space seperated) so that the same field can also be used for grid references. So you'd have: lat lon:elevation:heading:model or gridref:elevation:heading:model Importing data formatted like that is incredibly simple. -- Jon Stockill [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] May I help with scenery?
Hi Ampere, AC3D is a basic 3D modeller wich works with .ac files. It seems easy though not very stable. There's a free trial version. I will find out if registering is worth. Any other suggestions? Since you have experience with 3D Studio, you may want to use GMax: http://www4.discreet.com/gmax/ It has all the functionality you will ever need. Best of all, it doesn't need any money. That's good, seems pretty much more powerfull then AC3D. But no, I was used to 3D Studio (old Dos version) not to 3DS-Max whose interface style is very similar to the GMax one. Anyway, GMax has plenty of docs and I will mainly use only basic tools (it's good to see that boolean operations are fully implemented, AC3D doesn't). ... 1st problem: GMax does import 3ds files but does not export, should I get some additional sort of plugin? How do you do that? thx, Roberto ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
[Flightgear-devel] Re: Real weather fetch
* Pablo J. -- Wednesday 12 January 2005 01:23: Regarding real weather processing from live METAR reports, please consider providing the capability to load the weather conditions from a file, not only from live stations. It may be possible for someone to wish to fly FGFS right now but using the actual weather from some day in the past, and those particular conditions are available through the respective METAR file. Let's wait for that someone to speak up. Why bother if (s)he does maybe not even exist. That capability will allow for example, that someone take-off from his local airport with the stormy and rainy nigth conditions from four days ago, just right now that the sun is shinning!! For that you would need METAR sets for several stations and for several moments in time. It would have to support recorded weather for a flight from, let's say, KSFO to KJFK. I don't see a way to integrate something like this in fgfs. The best we can do, is to modify the METAR system to send a query to the property system (KSFO at time) and to expect a matching METAR string as a response within a few seconds, otherwise to fetch the data from the net. It'll then be in the responsibility of Mr(s). Someone to feed recorded METAR strings to fgfs via telnet/socket. Or, to make the fetch address settable, so Someone can set up a webserver that delivers old data. Recording METAR strings is *very* simple and can be done with a few lines of bash. m. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
[Flightgear-devel] Re: Real weather fetch
* Melchior FRANZ -- Wednesday 12 January 2005 12:18: * Pablo J. -- Wednesday 12 January 2005 01:23: Regarding real weather processing from live METAR reports, please consider providing the capability to load the weather conditions from a file, not only from live stations. Or, to make the fetch address settable, so Someone can set up a webserver that delivers old data. Recording METAR strings is *very* simple and can be done with a few lines of bash. I'll started to write a proxy server that delivers old METAR data. All you have to do is to set proxy host and port. No need for any changes in fgfs. m. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] May I help with scenery?
On Tuesday 11 January 2005 22:24, Robicd wrote: That's a pity. I was confident I could use such files, that closes a promising scenario :-( Anyway I'll investigate further. I tried converting .BGL files and extracting models from it about a year ago, without much luck. I had some success with simple buildings like flats and hangars, but as soon as it got a little complicated, it failed. Don't remember exactly which tools I used, but you might have a look at SCASM, SCDIS and ppe IIRC. That could be not an issue if the original creator of the .bgl releases the F.G. converted file under GPL too. Just an idea :-) I mailed one of the authors of a 3rd-party MSFS scenery if he could just mail me the 3D models and textures. He refused because he didn't want the plain models to be spread around (?!?). But anyway, you could try the same. Maybe somebody else doesn't mind as long as he gets proper credit and it's put under the GPL. --Ivo ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Real weather fetch
On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 12:18:18 +0100, Melchior FRANZ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For that you would need METAR sets for several stations and for several moments in time. It would have to support recorded weather for a flight from, let's say, KSFO to KJFK. I don't see a way to integrate something like this in fgfs. No biggie -- I used to do it in MSFS all the time. You can download all the world's METARs as one big file. Just specify the file you want, and you're good to go (and either change it every hour, or teach FlightGear when to look for the next one). All the best, David -- http://www.megginson.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
[Flightgear-devel] Re: Real weather fetch
* David Megginson -- Wednesday 12 January 2005 14:34: You can download all the world's METARs as one big file. Where? noaa.gov? or teach FlightGear when to look for the next one). FlightGear does already know when and where to look for data, and it has a working interface. It's the responsibility of the metar server to deliver the right data. m. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Real weather fetch
On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 15:01:28 +0100, Melchior FRANZ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * David Megginson -- Wednesday 12 January 2005 14:34: You can download all the world's METARs as one big file. Where? noaa.gov? ftp://weather.noaa.gov/data/observations/metar/cycles/ All the best, David -- http://www.megginson.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] May I help with scenery?
Robicd wrote: If OTOH you're not asking about official inclusion into FlightGear, Please slow down. I'm just starting at collecting informations here, in order to decide if and how is it possible to contribute to the scenery. I see no point why it should not be possible to contribute. Go ahead, everything that adds characteristica to the FlightGear scenery and makes some sense is welcome, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
[Flightgear-devel] Re: Real weather fetch
* Martin Spott -- Wednesday 12 January 2005 16:11: * Melchior FRANZ wrote: One has then only to start fgfs with a time for which the cache has METAR data available, and there we go. :-) Would it make sense to couple this to '--start-date-lat=' ? That's what I'm currently working on. I'll sneak in a header that sends the fgfs-world-time. This won't disturb noaa, but can be used by the proxy. m. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Real weather fetch
On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 15:53:31 +0100, Melchior FRANZ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks! I'll let the metar proxy download the requested files from there to $FG_HOME/metar/day/[0-9][0-9]Z.TXT and serve the most appropriate metar data string to fgfs via the normal NOAA lookup mechanism (via HTTP). One has then only to start fgfs with a time for which the cache has METAR data available, and there we go. :-) There's one gotcha -- the file for the current cycle is usually incomplete (the file grows as reports are collected), so you always want the previous one as a backup. All the best, David -- http://www.megginson.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] I have a GMax 3D model, help me exporting to 3ds file format
On Wednesday 12 January 2005 16:19, Roberto Inzerillo wrote: Hi all, I made a little 3D model (representing a Villa in my city) with GMax but I can't export it to 3ds file format (basic GMax packet does not include that function). Does anybody have the 3ds export plugin, can you please convert it for me so that I import the model with proper lat/long/alt into the F.G. scenery set? Thx, Roberto I don't know about a 3ds export plugin for GMax, but what you could use now is a MD3 export plugin for GMax: http://mojo.gmaxsupport.com/Sections/Plugins.html After you have your 3d model in MD3 format you can import it in Blender www.blender.org with the MD3 import Script for Blender: http://www.icculus.org/~phaethon/q3/md3import/md3import.html In Blender you can then export it to the AC3D *.ac file format and use it for FlightGear. Hope that helps. Best Regards, Oliver C. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] May I help with scenery?
Norman Vine wrote: PostGIS can be used to serve a WFS or WCS that is built on top of the UMN Mapserver which will handle 'z' values just fine. Right, but this doesn't picture all the required features in this case. If we would erect a repository for manual scenery changes we would need to edit elevations inside the current data. To my knowledge, Mapserver is only one-way. This still doesn't prevent us from using a database to refine roads and other data of this sort. I'll think about that after we've got the scenery objects repository running Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Is this usefull for flightgear/jsbsim?
Christian Mayer wrote: Nowadays you can solve navier stokes in real time in your graphics hardware... as long as you don't need your graphics hardware for other purposes I think - like displaying FlightGear ;-) Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] May I help with scenery?
Martin: If I can assist you by providing space on my ftp site I'll be happy to do so. (I currently mirror the flightgear code. It's updated automatically from them by some sort of magic that I don't fully understand, but Curtis does. grin!) There is also a private upload area in that server for special folks to upload into. It's not accessable without a password, and only a very few folks have it. I then can xfer what's in that directory into a public accessable area manually if needbe. ftp://kingmont.com jj ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Couple of issues
Logging tool wxWidgets has some nice logging features that we could mimic like being able to log to different locations based on the platform. (stderr, streams, gui, a widget inside app, null) Paul please consider using Log4cxx (http://logging.apache.org/log4cxx/), from the Apache Software Foundation, very similar to Log4J (the foundation). It has runtime configuration capabilities without recompiling the whole application. You can change the logging level, have several destinations at once, change the destinations, etc. at runtime by means of a config file. I don´t doubt about the logging capabilities of wxWidgets, but I think Log4cxx has a strong backend (ASF), good documentation and implementation and has very spread used. Pablo J. Rogina ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] May I help with scenery?
Christian Mayer wrote: If you look at the bottom of the map (the blue bar) that you'll see there the data source: Tele Atlas NV in your case. Hey, their map coordinates are not that bad. This is the location I got via trial and error from 'www.terraserver.com': http://www.multimap.com/map/browse.cgi?lat=49.024576lon=5.877158scale=25000icon=x Still subject to refinements I should get back to the TaxiDraw workbench ;-) Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] May I help with scenery?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Martin: If I can assist you by providing space on my ftp site I'll be happy to do so. Thanks for your offer - currently I have about 300 GByte left, this should last for a while ;-) Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
RE: [Flightgear-devel] May I help with scenery?
Martin Spott writes: Norman Vine wrote: PostGIS can be used to serve a WFS or WCS that is built on top of the UMN Mapserver which will handle 'z' values just fine. Right, but this doesn't picture all the required features in this case. If we would erect a repository for manual scenery changes we would need to edit elevations inside the current data. To my knowledge, Mapserver is only one-way. Right don't know if this would help or not with grids http://www.vividsolutions.com/jump/main.htm Norman ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] May I help with scenery?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jon Stockill schrieb: Ah, www.multimap.com helped me to figure out my first coordinate: There's a windmill at: Location:Germany X:1294800m Y:6110700m Lat:48:12:51N (48.2142) Lon:11:37:52E (11.631) But how do I add it online to the database? (http://www.stockill.org/fgfsdb/objects.php) www.terraserver.com helped even more. The detail is much worse (only down to 8 meters are for free), but as they've got air pictures it's easier to figure out the real position. You don't yet. Give me another week or so, and the scenery database should be at a stage where you can add your own objects to it. OK. I've got some more coordinates now. Of course nobody has made a windmill model yet, although I need to do a model of a wind turbine (I assume you're talking about an old stye windmill, not a modern electricity producing wind turbine? It's actually the modern variant (so it's called wind turbine then...) We don't have a soccer stadium yet, do we? CU, Christian -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFB5Vv1lhWtxOxWNFcRAr1eAKC2TVvS3njRLerq+40ipF0qwO1wigCfSlNC s8OaVG8ky19qLbLSZVzYcJE= =26/s -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] May I help with scenery?
Christian Mayer wrote: We don't have a soccer stadium yet, do we? I think there is one part of the SFO scenery, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] May I help with scenery?
On Wednesday 12 January 2005 15:19, Roberto Inzerillo wrote: If OTOH you're not asking about official inclusion into FlightGear, Please slow down. I'm just starting at collecting informations here, in order to decide if and how is it possible to contribute to the scenery. I see no point why it should not be possible to contribute. Go ahead, everything that adds characteristica to the FlightGear scenery and makes some sense is welcome, No worry, I will go on :-) At the time I'm getting familiar with GMax for 3D modelling which is far superior to AC3D although it doesn't export to any directly usable file format. I guess I have to buy some more software in order to GMax export in 3DS format :-( Still I'm happy with GMax, it lets me build simple 3D buildings without much pain. Maybe there's someone out there who could import my GMax models and convert them to .3ds (having the right export module) and then send it back to me so that I import it in a proper position into an F.G. scenery. Anyone fitting those requirements is reading this post? Hello :-) Roberto Does GMax have any object exporters? That is, what formats can it save models in? Personally, I use Realsoft3D for making my models and export them in .obj format. I then import the .obj format models into AC3D (V3.6) to apply the textures and convert it into .ac format for FG. LeeE ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] May I help with scenery?
On Wednesday, 12 January 2005 10:29, Martin Spott wrote: One other possibility you might wanna consider is allowing uploads/ dloads of terrain (e.g. tiles modified through fgsd). This is not as easy as it sounds because you'd have to redo the tiles on every scenery update. The right way to incorporate manual scenery changes would be to parametrize these changes and provide a method to add them to the automatic scenery build. Ideally all changes made to the terrain should be done at the source. i.e. VMAP0 and friends fgsd should be able to display, edit and save the vector data then use the terrgear generation tools to build the new tile and display the results. One could have a live online central repository (db) that handles the storage. fgsd can connect, request a tile of vector data for editing (The db can do some sort of locking on that tile to avoid simultaneous edits) Once the user is finished they upload the changes for everyone to use. Then when Curt builds the new scenery he just requests all the data from the updated DB. Simple stuff. Now who's going to write it? :P Seriously though a system like this would be cutting edge in comparison to the MSFS route of having every author releasing their little updates which have to be downloaded and installed piece-by-piece with no garauntees that there will be no conflicts between various authors. And boy-oh-boy do the MSFS community have problems with scenery conflicts! BTW : Does anyone know of a free VMAP0 editor for Linux? Paul ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] May I help with scenery?
Paul Surgeon wrote: Ideally all changes made to the terrain should be done at the source. i.e. VMAP0 and friends fgsd should be able to display, edit and save the vector data then use the terrgear generation tools to build the new tile and display the results. One could have a live online central repository (db) that handles the storage. fgsd can connect, request a tile of vector data for editing (The db can do some sort of locking on that tile to avoid simultaneous edits) Once the user is finished they upload the changes for everyone to use. Then when Curt builds the new scenery he just requests all the data from the updated DB. Simple stuff. Now who's going to write it? :P [...] BTW : Does anyone know of a free VMAP0 editor for Linux? As I already wrote we are heading for some sort of GIS application here. Storage for VMAP0 data - at least parts of it, I don't know all types of data that are covered by VMAP0 - could be the accomplished by the mentioned PostgreSQL/PostGIS database. Visualization of such data is easily done with QGIS, although for editing according to elevation data we'd need another tool. A PostGIS interface in FGSD might be a solution, but I don't think FGSD is currently capable of handlint this sort of vector data at all (I might be proven to be wrong here). We don't want a VMAP0-editor here, let's stick to standard interfaces and formats wherever possible, otherwise we are going to manouvre into a corner very soon, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
RE: [Flightgear-devel] May I help with scenery?
Paul Surgeon writes: On Wednesday, 12 January 2005 10:29, Martin Spott wrote: One other possibility you might wanna consider is allowing uploads/ dloads of terrain (e.g. tiles modified through fgsd). This is not as easy as it sounds because you'd have to redo the tiles on every scenery update. The right way to incorporate manual scenery changes would be to parametrize these changes and provide a method to add them to the automatic scenery build. Ideally all changes made to the terrain should be done at the source. i.e. VMAP0 and friends No, you do not change the source as it is a 'known' entity You make changes in a copy of the source perhaps stored in a different format fgsd should be able to display, edit and save the vector data then use the terrgear generation tools to build the new tile and display the results. One could have a live online central repository (db) that handles the storage. fgsd can connect, request a tile of vector data for editing (The db can do some sort of locking on that tile to avoid simultaneous edits) Once the user is finished they upload the changes for everyone to use. This is exactly why we are discussing PostGIS BTW : Does anyone know of a free VMAP0 editor for Linux? No, but Jump does many things including talking to PostGIS as doew/will uDIG JUMPS successor http://udig.refractions.net/ and there are several VMAP0 to shapefile translators and PostGIS understands shapefiles HTH Norman ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] May I help with scenery?
On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 08:29:43 + (UTC) Martin Spott wrote: Chris Metzler wrote: One other possibility you might wanna consider is allowing uploads/ dloads of terrain (e.g. tiles modified through fgsd). This is not as easy as it sounds because you'd have to redo the tiles on every scenery update. Right -- I'd commented elsewhere in this thread about how I'd spent a lot of time fixing up a tile in fgsd (moving riverbanks, changing ground poly materials, etc.), only to have to start over when a new scenery update came out (and I needed the new scenery for that tile because one of the TerraGear improvements fixed a glitch in an runway in that tile). It's still something people will do from time to time; I note that Frederic seems to touch up some of the default area tiles prior to releases, with the touched-up tiles going into the release/CVS. One probably would only need to re-edit the tiles if the scenery update results in either a major change to the tile (so that you're missing something important if you use an old tile), or to the boundaries of the neighboring tiles (thus creating a boundary mismatch if you use an edited old tile). Anyway, I think it'd be a good thing to offer. But you're absolutely right that editing the tiles this way isn't the best way to do it. The right way to incorporate manual scenery changes would be to parametrize these changes and provide a method to add them to the automatic scenery build. I agree completely. Typically this sort of undertaking is called GIS - Geographic Information System (like GRASS). Currently there is one drawback as the available OpenSource database add-ons (PostGIS, this is one reason why I love PostgreSQL so much) can handle 2D objects of almost any type really fine (it's fun so see a map being drawn out of a database) but they don't handle elevation data. OK, I'm very ignorant about this. Is that a major limitation in that it'd be very hard/time consuming for someone competent to adapt PostGIS to include elevation data? If you're currently up to speed on this stuff, can you describe how hard it is *to* come up to speed on it if you're not? (IOW, how comparatively hard is it to figure out this stuff) We might start this by putting roads, railways, rivers and lakes into such a database to allow for manual tweaking if someone is willing to add a PostGIS interface to the TerraGear toolbox - and Curt agrees on to proceed on this path I don't know anything about this stuff; but if I'm not working on the Zope site (I don't see the point in redundant effort, and I do think your approach of organizing the contributions in the same way as the FG scenery makes more sense), I'd be willing to look into this. -c -- Chris Metzler [EMAIL PROTECTED] (remove snip-me. to email) As a child I understood how to give; I have forgotten this grace since I have become civilized. - Chief Luther Standing Bear pgpIsg6U2krpK.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] May I help with scenery?
On Wednesday, 12 January 2005 22:26, Martin Spott wrote: As I already wrote we are heading for some sort of GIS application here. Storage for VMAP0 data - at least parts of it, I don't know all types of data that are covered by VMAP0 - could be the accomplished by the mentioned PostgreSQL/PostGIS database. Visualization of such data is easily done with QGIS, although for editing according to elevation data we'd need another tool. A PostGIS interface in FGSD might be a solution, but I don't think FGSD is currently capable of handlint this sort of vector data at all (I might be proven to be wrong here). We don't want a VMAP0-editor here, let's stick to standard interfaces and formats wherever possible, otherwise we are going to manouvre into a corner very soon, Ok, I see your point about not wanting to handle VMAP type directly in fgsd. Probably to first step is to write the code/scripts to load the vector data into a PostgreSQL/PostGIS DB and write an exporter for terragear so that Curt can carry on generating scenery without having to modify terragear. It would also be really handy to have a scaled down vector database (shapefiles?) in FG for moving map/GPS units as well as a basemap for flightplanners. I played with some of the terrgear tools yesterday but unfortunately they just spit out raw shape data without the associated names, descriptions, etc. which are required in maps. Paul ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Is this usefull for flightgear/jsbsim?
Erik wrote: This still might be useful if you can get all the moments and coefficients from it. Then you would be able to create a JSBSim configuration file from the model geometry. The idea of using the gfx model you need to do anyone (or one of the thousands or ten thousands you find on the internet) and automatically get the config file. It would not matter if it takes over night or even if it takes a week. However, CFD programs need a watertight geometry. I would guess that far in excess of 90% of models are not. For example, each edge needs to have two neighbour faces. Erik Bye bye, Wolfram. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Is this usefull for flightgear/jsbsim?
On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 22:10:47 +0100 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Wolfram Kuss) wrote: Erik wrote: This still might be useful if you can get all the moments and coefficients from it. Then you would be able to create a JSBSim configuration file from the model geometry. The idea of using the gfx model you need to do anyone (or one of the thousands or ten thousands you find on the internet) and automatically get the config file. It would not matter if it takes over night or even if it takes a week. However, CFD programs need a watertight geometry. I would guess that far in excess of 90% of models are not. For example, each edge needs to have two neighbour faces. There's always DATCOM+: www.holycows.net/datcom Jon ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Is this usefull for flightgear/jsbsim?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Wolfram Kuss schrieb: Erik wrote: This still might be useful if you can get all the moments and coefficients from it. Then you would be able to create a JSBSim configuration file from the model geometry. The idea of using the gfx model you need to do anyone (or one of the thousands or ten thousands you find on the internet) and automatically get the config file. It would not matter if it takes over night or even if it takes a week. However, CFD programs need a watertight geometry. I would guess that far in excess of 90% of models are not. For example, each edge needs to have two neighbour faces. As you are only interested in the full shape of the plane (and not it's single parts) you could help yourself by automatically closing these holes. I see more problems with the correct shape of the wings. The models won't get it right and using just some NACA profiles won't work with the higly optimized profiles of modern aircrafts (like those from Airbus). CU, Christian -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFB5a3NlhWtxOxWNFcRAg9MAJ9Lo8XRiNpaNSGmdU9XHC0TUIWzsACcColJ ejqhd5nYnsk1zpPOO4EbLVU= =ixWC -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] I have a GMax 3D model, help me exporting to 3ds file format
On January 12, 2005 10:19 am, Roberto Inzerillo wrote: Hi all, I made a little 3D model (representing a Villa in my city) with GMax but I can't export it to 3ds file format (basic GMax packet does not include that function). Does anybody have the 3ds export plugin, can you please convert it for me so that I import the model with proper lat/long/alt into the F.G. scenery set? Thx, Roberto Try this: http://www.worldzone.net/games/azrael_dark/PROJECT_ZERO/GMAX.html Ampere ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] I have a GMax 3D model, help me exporting to 3ds file format
On January 12, 2005 07:37 pm, Ampere K. Hardraade wrote: Try this: http://www.worldzone.net/games/azrael_dark/PROJECT_ZERO/GMAX.html Ampere Sorry. I didn't know that isn't available yet. I found some links on the subject: http://www.turbosquid.com/MessageBoard/index.cfm/FuseAction/ShowThread/TID/8278 You can also send it to me. I should be able to export it for you. Ampere P.S. Being in a BridgeCommander modding community once, I was pretty sure that GMax can export meshes into 3ds formats. hmm... ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Is this usefull for flightgear/jsbsim?
On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 16:01:59 + (UTC), Martin wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Christian Mayer wrote: Nowadays you can solve navier stokes in real time in your graphics hardware... as long as you don't need your graphics hardware for other purposes I think - like displaying FlightGear ;-) Martin. ..sure we need all of our gpu irons for that? ;-) On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 01:49:37 +0100, Arnt wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi ..another way to run code: http://gpgpu.org/ , for a wee quick intro, chk out: http://www.ece.ucdavis.edu/~jowens/talks/owens-hpec04-gpgpu.pdf ..note how they waaail for killer apps. ;-) ..formation flight: http://wwwx.cs.unc.edu/~tgamblin/gpgp/ ;-) ..this is well worth a look. ...more gory details: http://gamma.cs.unc.edu/GPGP/ http://www.daimi.au.dk/~mosegard/GPGPU_E04 ..and, ahem, an app: http://flightgear.org/ ;-) ..so, if I cheat, by stuffing in 5 pci nVidea math cards beside my new 1xAGP 9250, my trusty 5 yr old AMD K6-2 450MHz can run in circles around anything on the market for another 5 years? ;-) ..since then, I found these (some links span 2 lines and have spaces in their directory or link file names) to spoonfeed you: http://www.eet.com/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=55300904 http://gpgpu.org/cgi-bin/blosxom.cgi/ Audio and Signal Processing/index.html http://gpgpu.org/cgi-bin/blosxom.cgi/ Advanced Rendering/index.html http://gpgpu.org/cgi-bin/blosxom.cgi/ Scientific Computing/index.html http://gpgpu.org/cgi-bin/blosxom.cgi/ High-Level Languages/index.html http://gpgpu.org/cgi-bin/blosxom.cgi/Miscellaneous/ Developer Resources/index.html http://gpgpu.org/cgi-bin/blosxom.cgi/Miscellaneous/index.html http://openvidia.sourceforge.net/ http://www.strangebunny.com/techdemo_stokes.php ..note that the latter is useless to us as it requires DirectX 9. ..I would guess that if these tricks can pulled off on these cards, stereo video can be done too, regardless of how Microsoft or anyone else might feel about it: http://gamma.cs.unc.edu/GPGP/ -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;-) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Is this usefull for flightgear/jsbsim?
On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 02:06:12 +0100, Oliver wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: In a german news page (http://www.pro-linux.de/news/2005/7690.html) i found an article about a software called OpenFOAM which was put under the GPL license a few days ago and can do the following: The OpenFOAM (Field Operation and Manipulation) software package can simulate anything from complex fluid flows involving chemical reactions, turbulence and heat transfer, to solid dynamics, electromagnetics and the pricing of financial options. I read the word turbulence and thought that perhaps this could be usefull somehow for flightgear or jsbsim but i am not shure about that, so i mention it here maybe you know it better if this could be somehow usefull for flightgear/jsbsim. Here's the website of that software: http://www.opencfd.co.uk/openfoam/index.html ..dude, I can use this to model thermochemical gasification. ..these guys use GPU's as math engines? -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;-) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Is this usefull for flightgear/jsbsim?
On January 12, 2005 04:10 pm, Wolfram Kuss wrote: However, CFD programs need a watertight geometry. I would guess that far in excess of 90% of models are not. For example, each edge needs to have two neighbour faces. The models can be made to be watertight. People just need to get off their lazy behind and start creating/merging parts poly by poly, vertex by vertex. Ampere ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Is this usefull for flightgear/jsbsim?
On January 12, 2005 06:07 pm, Christian Mayer wrote: I see more problems with the correct shape of the wings. The models won't get it right and using just some NACA profiles won't work with the higly optimized profiles of modern aircrafts (like those from Airbus). I am pretty confident that my models can make it through the program, since wing geometry is the first thing I look for. I don't know about others though. Ampere ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Is this usefull for flightgear/jsbsim?
On January 12, 2005 08:18 pm, Arnt Karlsen wrote: ..these guys use GPU's as math engines? Why not? It makes sense. As a classmate of mine pointed out: the GPU is just a chip for matrix manipulations. Ampere ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@flightgear.org http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
