Re: [h-cost] book sale

[Patricia Dunham]

Yes, Pls, Do Send List.

YAY, our elect. is back! landline & internet next! (hoorah for a kid who can 
set us up w wi-fi from the apple-phone)

Chimney 


> On Dec 16, 2016, at 11:29 AM, mhprobe...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> Hi List, I'm clearing out various costume/textile books, most in like new
> condition. If you're interested, email me and I'll send you the titles.
> Melissa Roberts
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Re: [h-cost] slightly OT -- 1790s women's outerwear

[Patricia Dunham]

saw some period “pashminas” on-line when I was hunting… they didn’t look much 
like the fabrics in the movie, well, maybe the floral embroidery on black… what 
were in the movie were much smaller than the period ones… can I find a link…  
yes, Diane Thalmann  http://www.antique-textiles.net/shawls/   her pages show 
tons of period gorgeousness!  well, she’s in the UK which would certainly help!

“chimney”  — don’t you just “love” spell-checkers!?!?!

> On Jun 13, 2016, at 1:33 PM, ca...@aquazoo.net wrote:
> 
> I don't see this as off topic at all. Movies and TV can be inspiring for
> historic clothing, and we just need to weed out the accurate from the
> designer's creativity.
> 
> The shawls look like pashminas that are easy to find these days, and I
> suspect they are there to give some color and interest to an otherwise
> monotone, blobby garment.
> 
> I haven't seen that done in any artwork of the era, but if anyone has,
> please do tell!
> 
> -Carol
> 
> 
>> Yes, I’m talking about Love and Friendship, which we saw over the
>> weekend.
>> 
>> What caught my eye particularly in the costume area was how often the
>> ladies’ great big Kinsale-type cloaks ALSO had some kind  of little
>> shawl or scarf around the shoulders. Those little strips of sheer lacy
>> stuff (various) also appeared when the ladies were outside in nice
>> weather, but the point of them with the big cloaks was puzzling.
>> 
>> As, at the movie’s UK website ( http://loveandfriendshipfilm.co.uk
>>  ) there are two pictures of “Mrs.
>> Johnson” in a dark cloak with a reddish-patterned something around her
>> neck… but OVER the cloak and UNDER the hood. There is also an excellent
>> image of Frederica Vernon in her embroidered “shawl”, with only the
>> blue velvet of the hood showing…
>> 
>> I spent a good part of the day trying to document this
>> “whatever-it-is”, with no success. My best guess is that the small
>> shawls  or scarves were used to snug the voluminous-but-drafty cloaks
>> closer to the body in cold weather.
>> 
>> Anybody know anything more specific about this issue? The movie was sort
>> of wonderfully awful (Susan Vernon IS.THE.DEVIL!), we enjoyed mostly
>> everyone getting what they deserved, although I must agree with the
>> reviewer who opined that Chloe Savigny jangled every time her 21stC self
>> appeared in the Georgian period.
>> 
>> Thanks much!
>> chimney
> 
> 
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[h-cost] slightly OT -- 1790s women's outerwear

[Patricia Dunham]

Yes, I’m talking about Love and Friendship, which we saw over the weekend.

What caught my eye particularly in the costume area was how often the ladies’ 
great big Kinsale-type cloaks ALSO had some kind  of little shawl or scarf 
around the shoulders. Those little strips of sheer lacy stuff (various) also 
appeared when the ladies were outside in nice weather, but the point of them 
with the big cloaks was puzzling.

As, at the movie’s UK website ( http://loveandfriendshipfilm.co.uk 
 ) there are two pictures of “Mrs. 
Johnson” in a dark cloak with a reddish-patterned something around her neck… 
but OVER the cloak and UNDER the hood. There is also an excellent image of 
Frederica Vernon in her embroidered “shawl”, with only the blue velvet of the 
hood showing…

I spent a good part of the day trying to document this “whatever-it-is”, with 
no success. My best guess is that the small shawls  or scarves were used to 
snug the voluminous-but-drafty cloaks closer to the body in cold weather.

Anybody know anything more specific about this issue? The movie was sort of 
wonderfully awful (Susan Vernon IS.THE.DEVIL!), we enjoyed mostly everyone 
getting what they deserved, although I must agree with the reviewer who opined 
that Chloe Savigny jangled every time her 21stC self appeared in the Georgian 
period.

Thanks much!
chimney
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Re: [h-cost] dating a smoking woman

[Patricia Dunham]

yes, please…  I am currently reading an alternative history set where-in folks 
unable to access regular smoking-tobacco make do with all kinds of 
substitutions (usually awful), so unless there's a cured tobacco  leaf as we 
know it also in that babewyn, I'd wonder if what she were smoking might not 
have been some  other herbal material.

chimene

On Feb 13, 2016, at 10:28 AM, snsp...@aol.com wrote:

> I have a doodle/marginalia of a woman smoking a small black pipe which is in 
> a French manuscript dated 1318.  Since smoking did not occur in Europe until 
> the 16th century, I am assuming that this doodle is a later addition.
> 
> 
> However, she is wearing distinctive head wear, and I am wondering if she can 
> be more closely dated based on this item of clothing.  
...
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Re: [h-cost] drapery fabrics was . Re: Is h-costume still going?

[Patricia Dunham]

The terms Art Nouveau, Art Deco, Victorian, 19thCentury, Arts and Crafts, etc., 
seem to be liberally applied these days... to indicate "OLD"!  

When Himself goes cruising on-line at Craigslist or Freecycle, things get loud 
/ incredulous / hilarious on a regular basis, .

The staff person who showed us around was VERY pleasant and thorough in her 
info about how the store works.

chimene

On Jan 8, 2016, at 10:42 PM, Lavolta Press <f...@lavoltapress.com> wrote:

> Two or three weeks ago, I emailed the Whole 9 Yards about any Art Nouveau 
> drapery fabrics they might have. They very kindly sent me two batches of 
> swatches. Unfortunately, I wouldn't describe more than one swatch as 
> plausibly Art Nouveau and that was in colors that won't go with our decor.  
> They really seem like a nice store to deal with but their current inventory 
> is apparently not to our taste.
> 
> Fran
> Lavolta Press
> www.lavoltapress.com
> 
> On 1/8/2016 10:01 PM, Patricia Dunham wrote:
>> So, we had a trip north today and stopped by The Whole 9 Yards to see, as we 
>> had never heard of it, and fabric stores are few and far between here… it is 
>> gorgeous, VERY easy to find and has a small amount of off-street parking 
>> (important in that part of town). Very impressive displays (as far as we 
>> were concerned) but only a little that could have been applied to our 
>> interests (Tudor & Elizabethan costuming, if we were doing those…) Did not 
>> see a lot I would have described as Art Nouveau, but a little Arts-n-Crafts 
>> or Victorian, maybe. Definitely interior decor fabrics, with a few bits of 
>> costume-applicable overlap.
>>> ...
>>> http://w9yards.com/
>>> (503) 223-2880
>>> Mon - Fri 10-6 Sat 10-5
>>> 1820 E Burnside St
>>> Portland, OR 97214

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Re: [h-cost] drapery fabrics was . Re: Is h-costume still going?

[Patricia Dunham]

So, we had a trip north today and stopped by The Whole 9 Yards to see, as we 
had never heard of it, and fabric stores are few and far between here… it is 
gorgeous, VERY easy to find and has a small amount of off-street parking 
(important in that part of town). Very impressive displays (as far as we were 
concerned) but only a little that could have been applied to our interests 
(Tudor & Elizabethan costuming, if we were doing those…) Did not see a lot I 
would have described as Art Nouveau, but a little Arts-n-Crafts or Victorian, 
maybe. Definitely interior decor fabrics, with a few bits of costume-applicable 
overlap.

chimene & gerek

On Dec 17, 2015, at 12:56 PM, Agnes Gawne  wrote:

> Frances: 
> The Whole 9 Yards fabric store in Portland had a great selection of Art
> Nouveau and Arts and Craft type drapery textiles last time I was in there.
> The good news is no sales tax in Oregon, the bad news, the store is in
> Oregon.  They do shipping. 
> 
> http://w9yards.com/
> (503) 223-2880
> Mon - Fri 10-6 Sat 10-5
> 1820 E Burnside St
> Portland, OR 97214
> 


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Re: [h-cost] What costume-related gifts did everyone get?

[Patricia Dunham]

Well, I got my husband the civil war uniform pattern from McCall's for his 
some-day Steampunk wardrobe. We haven't sewn for SCA or anything else in years, 
sigh. He got me a truckload of period cookery resources, but the next MC 
isn't gonna' be out until Feb or some-such. A whole buncha' stuff will be 
arriving next year, apparently.

That's OK. I actually got my old-carpal-buzzy-nerveless fingers to do a couple 
of repairs on his everything-work-vest, very short stretches of very plain 
stitching, but now the saggy SAGGY front pocket is now looking much more 
respectable, as the velcro strips on both sides of the closure are actually 
attached!

Hmm, next maybe I'll tackle the other hem on his new shop coverall, he got one 
done and distracted… We also have a replacement everything-vest "safari coat" 
remodel to finish. If we can. Have taken it apart, ready to re-make, but… that 
was a couple of months ago. We may be in trouble…

oh well. looking forward to seeing what you all are doing!
chimene

On Dec 25, 2015, at 10:42 AM, Lavolta Press  wrote:

> My husband gave me the following books:
> 
> The First Book of Fashion: The Book of Clothes of Matthaeus and Veit Konrad 
> Schwarz of Augsburg
> 
> Fashion Plates: 150 Years of Style, by April Calahan
> 
> Regency Women's Dress: Techniques and Patterns 1800-1830, by Cassidy Percoco
> 
> and a biography:
> 
> Queen Victoria's Mysterious Daughter: A Biography of Princess Louise, by 
> Lucinda Hawksley
> 
> Fran Grimble
> Lavolta Press
> Books of historic clothing patterns
> www.lavoltapress.com


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Re: [h-cost] Is h-costume still going? [and mouse proof underwear]

[Patricia Dunham]

I too certainly want this list to continue, as I don't truck with Facebook! I 
signed up a million years ago but just so I could LOOK at stuff there… and so 
many groups I'm interested in now are behind sign-in walls! I still don't care 
to enrich Mr Facebook's coffers, so I really depend on this list!

thx, chimene

On Dec 17, 2015, at 2:24 AM, Danielle Nunn-Weinberg  
wrote:

> That sounds intriguing.  Please do post about it.  There still a few of us 
> kicking around.  I was around when the list was young so I really want this 
> list to keep going.
> 
> Happy holidays to all!
> 
> Cheers 
> Danielle  

>> On 17/12/2015 06:17, Carol Kocian wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> Is h-costume still going?
>> 
>> I've been wondering that, too.
>> I found a reference to a lady's "mouse proof" underwear, which piqued my 
>> curiosity, but I hesitated to post about it because the list had been so 
>> quiet lately.
>> 
>> Catherine Walton. 


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Re: [h-cost] Moving

[Patricia Dunham]

Sounds MARVELOUS! We've been following American Bungalow magazine and the other 
major Arts-n-Crafts-houses one (which I can never remember the name of!) for 
quite a while now. 

Since it's only the 40's, that's probably too recent for any Sacramento 
heritage-housing organization to be interested in??? Such a group MIGHT have 
info about the early days of your house. The Rehab Addict gal (HGTV) often 
finds wonderful pictures of early days of her houses that way. 

Hope you have some medium or bigger, drought-resistant trees to help with 
microclimates and passive cooling! We have several maples and hazelnut trees 
that help our (VERY) little 50s rancher a LOT that way.  Also, 2-acre garden, 
oy!

Best wishes!
chimene the envious, 8-)

On Aug 30, 2015, at 12:30 PM, Lavolta Press f...@lavoltapress.com wrote:

 The seller did a lot of work to prepare for the sale, including a new roof,  
 and we now have estimates for all the indoor work we want to do. So I don't 
 think there will be any more expensive surprises.
 
 The other surprises are kind of fun. The house is almost 5,000 square feet 
 (plus garage) and was built in the 40s as a Colonial Revival style. I grew up 
 in an area where there were plenty of real Colonial houses and see little 
 resemblance, unless you count wide hallways, and wide doorways to all the 
 public rooms. It could as easily be Mission, which is more the look we're 
 aiming at.  Anyway, there have been a number of owners and each one has 
 remodeled the property in some significant way.  We're not even sure how much 
 of the house is original and what was added on or when. We keep discovering 
 things. The other day a painting contractor who came to give an estimate 
 examined the drywall on the living room ceiling. He pointed out there were 
 long patches indicating that the ceiling once had ornamental Mission style 
 beams across it. I'd rather like to put beams in there now, but my husband 
 refuses. There is a family room next to it with an entirely wooden ceiling, 
 massive (pro!
 bably) nonsupportive beams and all, so I suppose that will have to do.
 
 We hadn't even really examined the grounds closely till recently. There are a 
 number of benches and things we may have to do something about at some point.
 
 Fran
 Lavolta Press
 www.lavoltapress.com
 
 On 8/30/2015 12:02 PM, WorkroomButtons.com wrote:
 ...   BTW, for the few who are left in h-costume, I just wanted to say my
 husband and I are cashing in our SF house, which we've owned for over 30
 years, to take advantage of the local real estate boom.  And we already
 bought our dream house in the Sacramento area!  We don't expect to move
 in till sometime in the fall. We're having the house painted in Arts 
 Crafts colors, oak flooring put into the few rooms that don't already
 have it, and remodeling the kitchen with custom mission cabinets. And
 some fixups here and there. There is a gorgeous garden (almost 2 acres),
 but we recently discovered the sprinkler system needs to be moved and
 part of the fence needs to be replaced . . . My sewing room is a huge
 master bedroom with a separate large room (formerly an indoor swimming
 pool, according to the neighbors), for use as a closet. There are two
 other bedrooms plus a guest suite, so we don't need to sleep in it,
 anyway for a bedroom it's absurdly large. So we are really excited.
 
 We also need to buy more furniture, preferably antique, late 19th/early
 20th century.  Especially more bookcases.  So if anyone knows of any
 great antique stores in that area, email me!
 

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Re: [h-cost] h-costume on facebook?

[Patricia Dunham]

I hope not, or if so, that it is an open site… I don't care to turn my life 
over to the world via Facebook and SO many research sites there are locked up 
where you can't see the info! 

just my 2 cents!
chimene

On Aug 29, 2015, at 11:13 AM, Carol Kocian aqua...@patriot.net wrote:

 Does h-costume have a presence on facebook? Someone was just asking for an 
 all-era sewing group, not just for patterns, not just for challenges, but a 
 place to discuss and ask questions.
 
 Thanks!
 -Carol
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Re: [h-cost] 1918 Vionnet Gown

[Patricia Dunham]

what on earth happened there! I thought(!) I put in an url; let's hope this 
copy sticks!!!

https://www.reconstructinghistory.com/blog/1910s-projects-the-surprise.html

chimene


On Aug 22, 2015, at 1:49 PM, Patricia Dunham chim...@ravensgard.org wrote:

 this one? 1910s Projects — The Surprise | Reconstructing History
 
 I can't find the book in local PL, so tried on-line! certainly found lots of 
 fascinating stuff; hope the page above might be some help???
 
 chimene
 
 
 
 On Aug 21, 2015, at 3:29 PM, RobinandKelly Dorman 
 robinandkellydor...@hotmail.com wrote:
 
 I am attempting to recreate the Vionnet dress on page 68 of Patterns of 
 Fashion 2….
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Re: [h-cost] 1918 Vionnet Gown

[Patricia Dunham]

this one? 1910s Projects — The Surprise | Reconstructing History

I can't find the book in local PL, so tried on-line! certainly found lots of 
fascinating stuff; hope the page above might be some help???

chimene



On Aug 21, 2015, at 3:29 PM, RobinandKelly Dorman 
robinandkellydor...@hotmail.com wrote:

 I am attempting to recreate the Vionnet dress on page 68 of Patterns of 
 Fashion 2….
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Re: [h-cost] Anyone here?

[Patricia Dunham]

Yeah, it has been quiet.

We don't do Facebook because we're OLD, we do still believe in privacy and 
don't think much of the merchandising of FB info.

The weekend just past was Kingdom 12th Night here in AnTir, that kind of thing 
might also obtain in other parts of the country???

Now let's see if I can get this to mail without creating duplicates, or just 
refusing to go at all. argh.

chimene


On Jan 13, 2015, at 3:39 PM, Sharon Collier sha...@collierfam.com wrote:

 Hi, I haven't been getting any messages lately, until today-I got only one.
 Is the list especially quiet?


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Re: [h-cost] any must-see exhibits in Dec or Jan?

[Patricia Dunham]

The big Swedish-Viking exhibit that's in Victoria BC through Remembrance Day is 
moving to The Field Museum next, I think…. oh well. It won't be getting to 
Chicago until late February:

 The tour will premiere on May 16, 2014 at the Royal BC Museum in Victoria 
 and be on display there until November 11, 2014. It will then move to the 
 Field Museum in Chicago and be on display from February 28, 2015 to September 
 20. Following this, it will move to the Canadian Museum of Civilization in 
 Gatineau, Quebec and open in late November, 2015 and will be on display until 
 late April 2016.

There are some daily life things that have something to do with clothing  
textiles… will know more myself in a week or two, as we're going to be trying 
REALLY hard to get to this while it's still in Victoria. Pictures in books are 
OK, but I'd like to see these things in real life, and we may not get to Europe 
until the NEXT live, 8-)

chimene (Eugene OR)


On Oct 24, 2014, at 10:25 AM, Charlene C charlene...@gmail.com wrote:

 I need to fly somewhere in December or January to keep my frequent
 flyer points active (apparently I've been using my husband's points
 too much).
 
 Therefore, I now have an excuse to go someplace in the continental US.
 Are there any must-see museum exhibits you'd recommend? [Or any other
 events, shows, points of interest, etc.; feel free to send to me
 off-list.]
 
 Thanks!
 --Charlene
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[h-cost] Lizzie B. (WAS: Re: re wardrobe size, middle class)

[Patricia Dunham]

Well, my first impression from Google images was that the white garment was a 
shift, the cotton slip you'd wear at the base of everything, corset goes over 
it, bustle bum-roll goes over it, only any possible knickers would go under 
it…

a VERY Lizzie-phile website where I found a review of the piece, 
http://lizziebordenwarpsandwefts.com/2014/01/26/lifetimes-lizzie-borden-took-an-axe-yes-a-crime-was-committed/
  provided this in its review of the piece: Lizzie racing around in her 
underwear with hair streaming wantonly down her back -- 

see also the 1890's fashion link in the sidebar -- some fascinating material 
there, although nothing about underwear on the first page…

Googling 1890's underpinnings brings images like these, which appear to 
validate elements of that slip, to my eye, anyway!

http://www.pinterest.com/pin/233413193162644655/  (found her again, listed as 
Dahlia M, at http://indulgy.com/post/wo6jgNuPJ1/jacket-circa-s -- NOTE, even 
in a naughty girl photo, her hair is completely done!, rather than streaming 
wantonly

http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/dc/a5/91/dca5914a47b652a8e14657aeb3e5d188.jpg
  -- this is labelled Edwardian, 1910 on its Pinterest page, 
http://www.pinterest.com/windilyn/underpinnings-and-victorian-things/  Oh drat. 
we have so far refused Pinterest's new spam-generator membership stuff, I did 
see several more things that look like the movie garment further down the page, 
but can't see past the dratted join us black-bar-of-death!

Well, there went about an hour of my Sun-day-of-rest! 8-)
chimene

 

On Oct 12, 2014, at 10:51 AM, Cascio Michael rosen...@yahoo.com wrote:

 ...   And on a another note I just saw Lizzie Borden Took an Axe with 
 Christine Ricci in it and the outfit she's wearing through most of the 
 movie's day of the murder just seems wrong to me.  Is it supposed to be an 
 underdress because it's hot or a housedress or a fantasy?
   
   
   Cassandra

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Re: [h-cost] slashing fabric

[Patricia Dunham]

the way I heard it, a ZILLION years ago, so probably SCA-fantastic, was that 
the Landsknecht started out as mercenaries, who would loot the baggage as well 
as the bodies... and would want to wear as much of that loot at the same time, 
as possible as advertisement! (see how much I've collected, how successful -- 
wouldn't YOU want to hire me too?)

and that while slicing the layers might make it possible to climb into more of 
them, the slashing and pulling was how you would SHOW that you had different 
colors and fabrics under the outer layer!

and of course, be EXTREME CONSPICUOUS CONSUMPTION, which is why it caught on 
with the upper classes eventually. 

hmm, I always thought the slash-n-puff moved UP the social ladder, from the 
mercenaries UP to the upper classes... it MIGHT have moved down as well, if it 
did start as a Conspicuous Consumption practice of the upper classes... Wiki 
article on Landsknecht says the particular mercenary companies that evolved 
into the LK were organized by Maximilian around 1500; but there are lots of 
upper class pics at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1500–1550_in_fashion show 
slashing AT THE SAME TIME. On the other hand, the LK slash-n-puff engravings 
show something very bulky, almost like padded fabric armor! 

chimene  gerek


On Jul 22, 2014, at 12:53 PM, Julie wrote:

 I saw this on another list and I thought I'd check with the wise folks on
 this list. I've never heard this before. Truth or myth?
 
  I took a history of fashion class in college (design major) and the
 decorative cutting of clothes goes back to the 16th century if not earlier.
 It started with the german warriors who would take the fine silk clothing
 of the people they bested in battle but the clothing was too small (these
 were evidently big guys) so they cut the pants up in decorative slashes so
 that they could still wear them.  (look up landschkinects) This was of
 course before the invention of the washing machine so the fabric didn't
 disintegrate like it would now with modern washing practices.  And the
 fashion spread throughout Europe. The frayed edges of the cuts were
 definitely part of the design element of it to the extent that there were
 some fabrics woven to look like they had been decoratively cut...the frayed
 edge duplicated with an overlaid weft that was severed after weaving (like
 velvet, only in spots) and there were special chisels made for the tailors
 to do the cutting with.
 
 Thanks for your wisdom
 Julie
 
 
 
 On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 11:00 AM, h-costume-requ...@indra.com wrote:
 
 Send h-costume mailing list submissions to
h-costume@mail.indra.com
 
 To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
 or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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 You can reach the person managing the list at
h-costume-ow...@mail.indra.com
 
 When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
 than Re: Contents of h-costume digest...
 
 
 Today's Topics:
 
   1. LonCon Membership for sale (cc2010m...@cs.com)
 
 
 --
 
 Message: 1
 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 16:06:49 -0400 (EDT)
 From: cc2010m...@cs.com
 To: h-costume@mail.indra.com
 Subject: [h-cost] LonCon Membership for sale
 Message-ID: 8d1733670fc8cbe-f04-12...@webmail-m257.sysops.aol.com
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
 
 Hello,
I am selling my membership to LonCon, the world SF con in London. I am
 asking $100, which is what it cost me at ChiCon.
Henry Osier
 
 --
 
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 End of h-costume Digest, Vol 13, Issue 62
 *
 
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Re: [h-cost] 3,300-year-old trousers found in China

[Patricia Dunham]

I wonder if this is not really a recent discovery, but museum folks working 
through the large numbers of Tarim Basin celtic mummies? Time periods in the 
articles certainly overlap, and Xinjiang Province is where the Tarim Basin IS! 
I'm pretty sure the Chinese are prickly about anything found in Chinese 
territory is about CHINESE, no other ethnic groups need apply!

chimene 

On Jun 6, 2014, at 7:58 AM, Catherine Walton wrote:

 http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/06/oldest-trousers-found-in-china-mummies
  
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[h-cost] anybody know curti? Venetian slang for mid-range social climbers????

[Patricia Dunham]

reading Shadow of the Lion, set in 1530-ish Venice... this term sounds kind of 
clothing-related but also indicates social status? like, nouveau-riche?? I HAVE 
just spent a while googling for a definition, but no luck.

The specific line that has inspired me to try to get specific here is : Curti 
like the Brunelli would never settle for lesser curti. (The Brunelli are a 
powerful family, but still curti, NOT casa vecchie; would not marry down 
to a lesser curti house.)  

Thanks!!
chimene
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Re: [h-cost] Wow. Kid fashion

[Patricia Dunham]

Oh. My. Goodness!  Totally amazing, I just spent almost an hour!!!  I wonder 
how long this phase will last, 8-)  A long time, I hope.

thank you SO MUCH for the link!!!

chimene

On Mar 2, 2014, at 8:16 PM, Marjorie Wilser wrote:

 Just had to share this. Talk about amazing from a kid!
 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/26/4-year-old-paper-dresses-fashion-by-mayhem_n_4855545.html
 


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[h-cost] Loot-n-Booty Report, 2013

[Patricia Dunham]

Nobody has started this thread yet? Amazing, 8-)

Well... Medieval Clothing and Textiles #9, thanks to a coupon that brought the 
price down to what the DH could stand! 
Dress Accessories, 1150-1450 (finally)
Wearing the Cloak, Dressing the Soldier in Roman Times (this goes with 
post-Roman Arthuriana)

and, OT, a Jayne cap!  as per Firefly, see at 
http://www.thinkgeek.com/product/f108/   of course, I don't have the 
accompanying firepower to REALLY complete the look, but Himself was satisfied 
that it was a COMPLETE surprise, 8-)  I had even opened the delivery pkg by 
mistake and not really recognized it, and had completely forgotten making 
whatever joke about it when we originally saw it!  100% acrylic and it is 
actually warm in the drafty house!

and a cookery book, and a history book, and a couple of comic-strip/manga 
collections, and a couple of children's books from my eternal-list... Himself 
was wailing about how I have to provide him with MORE NON-book ideas! So I also 
have a couple of jigsaw puzzles, 8-); now I just have to find time to DO them! 
And get past bridling when teh boyz push in to HELP me go FASTER!

Hope you all got stuff you wanted/ liked/ were surprised by/ had other positive 
reactions to, 8-)

Hoppy Gnu Year!
chimene
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[h-cost] about bath towels...

[Patricia Dunham]

Thanks all for the responses about those velvet terms; much appreciated.

NOW...  we need to replace some bath towels. BUT! where do YOU buy decent bath 
towels these days? 

JCPenney used to be our go-to for almost all bed  bath linens, but not so much 
these days. They appear to be suffering the breakdown in quality that so many 
textiles are. (You can't get PermaPrest bed sheets anymore, sigh, although I 
still have a few inherited from my mother, and my own student housekeeping. I 
suppose that one is OK, apparently the permaprest process was an environmental 
horror that even in the olden days of 30+ years ago became unsupportable.)

But bath towels, now! I have remnants of a couple of bath sheets that I made 
into a house-robe for Mr. Shoulders, possibly 30 years ago. This 100% cotton 
fabric is STILL full-surfaced and soft as satin! It's cut into ca. 12 squares 
and the sides do not ravel or produce bits in the wash. JCP is certainly not 
carrying this quality of towelling these days, or for the past decade at least. 
Most of the older towels we have (from various sources) seem to last about 3 
years before they go so thin that they dry like sandpaper, OR start to have the 
seamed selvages rip out, OR start to tear away at the flat-weave sections...

So, please! Where do YOU-all buy or order on-line, what brand(s), of bath 
towels that STAY full and soft and in one piece, these days?

Thanks much!
chimene et al 



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[h-cost] names for velvets...

[Patricia Dunham]

my steam-punker has been attracted recently by victorian velvet outfits from 
the OMG that dress site, so he's been looking on-line at velvets.

we have hit a term we can't find a real definition for. does anyone know what 
is meant by doux cotton velvet. doux literally means sweet. some of the 
descriptions say 100% cotton, which indicates warp, weft and PILE all of 
cotton.

we have also run across descriptions of linen velvet, and mohair velvet!

both the cotton and linen velvet appear to run around $17/yard; 54-56 width -- 
oh, the linen is on 66% sale, usually more like $50/yd! 

flanders velvet, housefabric.com, 63% cotton, currently on sale $10/54 yd...

well, enough dithering, he can pull up examples faster than I can transcribe 
them, 8-)

so... doux cotton velvet, linen velvet, flanders velvet... any definitions?

thx much
chimene
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Re: [h-cost] OT hairdressing, Dineh

[Patricia Dunham]

oh goody/duh of me, 8-)...  I think I was thinking of th 12thC garb list!!! but 
you're right, for HERE, this is as appropriate as anything! thanks for 
reminding me, 8-) 

ah, OK, the Navajo is called chongo, the Hopi is called squash-blossom, or 
butterfly whorls (looks like Princess Leia's cinnabons but farther up the head 
 free-standing away from the head

apparently very difficult to find how-to for the squash-blossom, beyond one 
note that a wooden form is used to create the buns, then it's removed! found 
one comment about the wooden form possibly being horse-shoe shaped, and found 
a LOT of dead links. the following aren't much, but... the ritajean link does 
have ONE photo of the hairdo half-way through production, FWIW 

http://obliseniy.net/blossom-hair-hopi-squash/
http://ritajeanmoran.blogspot.com/2011/11/hopi-spiralsquash-blossom.html
http://www.native-languages.org/hair.htm

ch.

On Jul 25, 2013, at 6:46 AM, Wicked Frau wrote:

 Hey Patriciaas far as I know there is no time frame or country of
 origin limitation on this list.  I LOVED to hear about this.  I have
 wondered about it as well.  The other one I'd like to know how to do is the
 (I think it is Hopi) hair dress that kinda looks oriental too.  Lemme see
 if  I can find pics.
 
 Sg
 
 On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 8:01 AM, Marjorie Wilser the3t...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 On Jul 24, 2013, at 1:35 AM, Patricia Dunham wrote:
 
 This is very OT for 12thC, but I've always wondered how it was done...
 Navajo women's traditional double-bun hair-dress.  I think I'm going to
 ponder for a while if a similar technique might be of assistance in
 achieving the Viking women's ritual knot hair-dress, which, admittedly, is
 also OP for this list !?  In any case, it is a marvelous demonstration of
 how to create and hold a fairly complex hair construction using non-modern
 tools.
 
 anyway, a Native lady on another of my lists just posted about a zillion
 photos from a recent large family reunion, among them a very step-by-step
 demonstration.
 
 Now, there are several clusters of hairdress photos scattered among pics
 of other activities, starting about halfway down this page, look for the
 little girl in the pink and yellow top, with white yarn holding her hair
 http://www.flickr.com/photos/**neeta_lind/sets/**72157634727656803/page2/http://www.flickr.com/photos/neeta_lind/sets/72157634727656803/page2/
 


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[h-cost] OT hairdressing, Dineh

[Patricia Dunham]

This is very OT for 12thC, but I've always wondered how it was done... Navajo 
women's traditional double-bun hair-dress.  I think I'm going to ponder for a 
while if a similar technique might be of assistance in achieving the Viking 
women's ritual knot hair-dress, which, admittedly, is also OP for this list !?  
In any case, it is a marvelous demonstration of how to create and hold a fairly 
complex hair construction using non-modern tools.

anyway, a Native lady on another of my lists just posted about a zillion photos 
from a recent large family reunion, among them a very step-by-step 
demonstration. 

Now, there are several clusters of hairdress photos scattered among pics of 
other activities, starting about halfway down this page, look for the little 
girl in the pink and yellow top, with white yarn holding her hair
http://www.flickr.com/photos/neeta_lind/sets/72157634727656803/page2/

enjoy
chimene


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Re: [h-cost] stains on stored linen?

[Patricia Dunham]

since I'm also washing a separate load of dark red theater curtain velvet, that 
does sort of make me wonder if there were miniscule tufts of velvet left in the 
machine when I washed the linen stuff originally (out-sizing first wash) -- 
bleedy red velvet tufts?

the bra was left for quite a while with the Clorox2 on it... 

thx much for responses!
chimene

On Jun 15, 2013, at 10:28 PM, Marjorie Wilser wrote:

 For fruit stains, like that of the raspberry, I find spray-and wash the 
 best thing. It actually fades the stain before it hits the washing machine. 
 Berry stains will indeed turn a nasty shade of gray if washed in ordinary 
 soap without pre-treatment.
 
 Don't know about your random stains. Might they have been in the cloth as 
 produced?
 


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[h-cost] stains on stored linen?

[Patricia Dunham]

We're in the process of sorting, washing-musty-out, and re-packing the fabric 
stash and have discovered about 5 pieces of mostly-white, mostly-linen that has 
a FEW, random pink and/or blue-y/black-y spots. We've only really noticed this 
tonite. Doesn't seem to be occuring on the white cottons (I think).

I'm planning to pre-treat with Clorox2, and then cold-launder with Clorox2. 
Have just had real good luck with that with a cotton bra that got a raspberry 
down it all day 8-) which stain started pinkish, and then turned sort of 
blackberry dark blue/black as I tried to wash it out.

Anybody have any idea what this might be, or why it's affecting the linen by 
preference? oh yes, I double-checked, the cotton stain DID come out, except for 
one very faint shadow the size of a dime.

thx much!!
chimene
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Re: [h-cost] University of NH exhibit

[Patricia Dunham]

Just looked at your photos, could you please confirm that the exhibit and book 
deal exclusively with women's garments? (My husband is interested in men's 
Victorian fashion, as a foundation for his Steampunk interests, for himself.) 

thanks much,
chimene

On Mar 14, 2013, at 11:02 AM, Astrida Schaeffer wrote:

 Hi everyone--
 
 The Victorian embellishments book is finally well on its way through the 
 design process, and I have a date (end of April) for it to get to the 
 printer. I'm expecting copies in hand by mid-June. 
...
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[h-cost] ventilation of fabric storage

[Patricia Dunham]

We recently found that SOME of the fabric in our wooden fabric cupboards had 
become sort of damp-musty smelling. So far it has all washed out.

However, we are now in the middle of re-habing the cupboards. Gonna' get them 
up on legs for better ventilation under (crawl space is not insulated); have 
paint-sealed the interior.

We are buying or making ventilated containers so that we can keep things in 
better order on the interior shelves.

QUESTION -- opinions about the advisability of putting (screened) ventilation 
openings in the back wall of the cupboard? Would this let too much damp in? 
Would it let too much fabric fiber-dust out? any other thoughts?

thx much!
chimene
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Re: [h-cost] Welcome to

[Patricia Dunham]

hello there, have you been hacked? if this is a real url, please let us know 
what the subject matter is. kthxbye

On Feb 11, 2013, at 11:58 PM, dotson...@yahoo.com wrote:

 
 http://kseroserwis.pl/17/17friends.php?onuxa=b3%ro%t2%70%h8%m6%x8%i3%c1%a8%h1%68okigevup=6538016
 
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Re: [h-cost] Welcome to

[Patricia Dunham]

woops! sorry, meant that to go just to dotsontwo !! chimene

On Feb 13, 2013, at 12:08 PM, Patricia Dunham wrote:

 hello there, have you been hacked? if this is a real url, please let us know 
 what the subject matter is. kthxbye
 
 On Feb 11, 2013, at 11:58 PM, dotson...@yahoo.com wrote:
 
 
 http://kseroserwis.pl/17/17friends.php?onuxa=b3%ro%t2%70%h8%m6%x8%i3%c1%a8%h1%68okigevup=6538016
 
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Re: [h-cost] Hairdresser recreates ancient hairstyles

[Patricia Dunham]

wow, thx! that's a great article. nice to see the reporter take it seriously. 
(now I want to go look up the Roman fort article, too! 8-))

reminds me of the Caryatid Hair Project, Fairfield College  
http://www.fairfield.edu/cas/ah_caryatid.html

chimene

On Feb 7, 2013, at 10:33 AM, Lavolta Press wrote:

 From the Wall Street Journal:
 
 http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324900204578286272195339456.html?mod=wsj_share_tweet
 
 Fran


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Re: [h-cost] 14th c. German interpretation assistance

[Patricia Dunham]

Braun et Schneider is really Victorian, the plates you mention are available 
on-line at http://www.siue.edu/COSTUMES/COSTUME4_INDEX.HTML

Personally, I see a short length of decorated, CENTERED opening at the top 
neck. I do not get any impression of off-centered-ness from this gold-colored 
artifact. I don't believe I've ever seen a period gardecorps image with an 
off-center neck opening. IF there are buttons they may or may not be 
functional, vs decorative, at this period. I see the bottom of a center front 
opening; which, specifically for riding, MAY be mirrored at the back, although 
there is no indication of this in the illustration. I do not see anything that 
looks like it is opening a side seam in the main body of the garment. I see 
very ordinary looking hanging sleeves (thanks, Sharon) with an  upper front 
opening for the arm. This type of opening is usually cut in the body of the 
sleeve, nothing to do with any sleeve seams.

So, I googled the name from the Manesse Codex plate originally posted, Ulrich 
von Gutenburg, and scanned images until I found something that had a similar 
garment, but wasn't old Ulrich, and I found a term in the thumbnail labels that 
caused a BIG face-palm: GARDECORPS.

So then I googled gardecorps. Google wants to break that term in half, 
apparently because garde corps is modern french for balcony railing (that 
guards your body from falling off the balcony, eh?)

In any case, there IS another of these garments in the MC, worn by a woman 
riding, see here 
http://www.manesse.de/BildSuche.php?id=358s=Gardecorps%20Garde-corps%20%DCberkleida=erg;
  which appears to be a page from the german website that is illustrating 
examples of garments...  

and there's this German costume history page, 
http://www.monacensis.de/tipps/gewand/Das_Frauengewand/index.php?title=Das_Frauengewand
 which, way down at the bottom, pattern #10, shows the original riding lady, 
who ... is in the Heidelberg site at 183v, Herr Wachsmut von Muhlhausen. 
Apparently ladies don't slit the fronts of their gardecorps, for riding or 
anything else, but the sleeve is there. (All the other ladies in gardecorps I 
found this morning have floor-length, NOT SPLIT main bodies.)

The first 5 pages of images at (google gardecorps) will show you many modern 
reconstructions, more-period-than-B-n-S drawings, patterns, etc.  For example:

modern German re-enactor: Hochmittelalterlicher Garde-Corps (Reisemantel), down 
at the bottom of http://www.gewandschneider.de/referenzen/body_referenzen.html

a construction diary for the hot pink gardecorps, from Sweden, I think, SCA 
http://web.comhem.se/~u31138198/gardecorps.html this writer appears to identify 
a second female MC figure as also wearing a gardecorps, the first ill. in her 
piece.

http://www.revivalclothing.com/article-pencloaks.aspx has an interesting theory 
that the gardecorps combined cloak and surcoat... well, the brown one on the 
left is not slit anywhere on the main body of the garment. I find the under-arm 
opening interesting, but not recognizably similar to Ulrich's sleeves 

the only off-center neck opening I have found is in a woodcut of JOHANNES von 
Gutenburg! May be a descendant of Ulrich's? 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johannes_Gutenberg says that is a 16thC engraving! 
this looks more like a Russian princeling to me, than either Mr Printing Press, 
OR Ulrich! well, except for the slit sleeve. oh well, consistency is the 
downfall of small minds. or something.

http://curiavitkov.cz/clanek24.html  - clothing page from Curia Vitkov (google 
this and ask for translate), 11-12thC Bohemia, modern Czech Republic. There IS 
a gardecorps section on this page. and lots of unfamiliar period illustrations, 
GRIN!!!

as always, beware the Hill  Bucknell drawing, it is VERY pretty. but the 
pattern that goes with it is probably the usual level of garbage.

some German page about dyeing with walnut husks, the garment they tried it on 
was a gardecorps (!) http://www.familia-ministerialis.de/faerbenwalnuss.html 
OK, OT: several pages, heavily photo-illustrated, about dying with natural 
materials, in Berlin, in the early 2000's; kind of hard to find, the familia 
seems to have destructed, with only a few pages left on-line. search by David  
Suzi names -- 

OK, I think that's most of it. Sorting from the images took a while. Hope these 
help.
chimene

On Jan 11, 2013, at 12:29 PM, Sharon Collier wrote:

 Looks like a typical hanging sleeve, with an opening in front to allow the
 arm to come out  (not necessarily on the seam). The body of the garment
 looks like it fastens offset, on the left front side, kind of like a double
 breasted cloak. Similar to a Russian shirt, with the fastening on the left
 side front. At least, from what I can see from the illustration. If you have
 the Braun and Schneider book Historic Costume in Pictures, look at plates
 22, lower right--the judge has a similar garment and plate 23, lower right,
 French noblemen,  for 

Re: [h-cost] Is anyone there?

[Patricia Dunham]

well, h-cost. I got v.8 of the Kalamazoo papers for my birthday back on Dec 4. 
I got (for Himself) a couple more steampunk patterns for my Mad Scientist 
wanna'be, 8-). Myself, I mostly got children's illustrator books, and a few 
cookery bookeries, but quite satisfied overall.

well, Himself is researching steampunk era undergarments for me as medical 
adventures a few years ago left me in need of VERY baggy unders; that may turn 
into something sewing-related.

oh yeah, we went into one of the fabric storage cupboards to review what we 
already have, re his new patterns, and almost killed ourselves on the musties. 
literally. he's still not sleeping well (too cloggy from moldy-spore-y yutch); 
I'm still laundering, 2 washes, both with hunters scent-killer additive! seems 
to be working so far, but I'm mostly only through the 100 % 
cotton-for-home-made patterns stash. it seems that pieces that still have 
original sizing in them are mostly OK. and, SO FAR, the woolens seem to be 
mostly OK...
can hardly wait to get this cupboard re-built with improved ventilation; to 
unpack the OTHER cupboard!

chimene


On Jan 4, 2013, at 9:16 PM, Pierre  Sandy Pettinger wrote:

 We've seen no messages since December 18 - is everyone really that busy? 
not really, it was quiet, but I have a couple of dozen posts for the 
intervening period...

 
 Typical post-holiday question - What costume goodies did you get this year?
 
 I got Steampunk Fashion by Spurgeon Vaughan Ratcliffe.  
what do you think of it? my steampunker has VERY decided ideas about what works 
and what doesn't, and has the sewing background to back up his preferences.
...
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Re: [h-cost] red for marriage dress

[Patricia Dunham]

Nothing I've found on-line indicates any academic background at all for Ms 
Simeti. She has written 4 books, mostly based on her life in Sicily with her 
Italian husband, including 2 cookbooks.

chimene

On Nov 13, 2012, at 11:29 AM, snsp...@aol.com wrote:

 
 The statement comes from Mary Taylor Simeti's book, Travels with a Medieval 
 Queen and is found on page 98.
 
 Nancy
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[h-cost] OT OP greasy-strings hairdressing???

[Patricia Dunham]

Watching news tonight, noticed, again, some woman on national TV, a 
national-level government consultant (!) -- her hair looks like a wet string 
mop. Like she's been dressing her hair with olive oil to make it look greasy  
stringy ON PURPOSE. Or MAYBE? this is supposed to look like it's still dripping 
wet from washing? And the wearer just has more important things to do with her 
valuable time than dry it before she leaves the house...  But filthy-greasy is 
what it looks like more often, to me.

Kind of a Gordon Gecco/Mitt Romney greased-back thing?, but, on women, with 
much longer lengths. And not usually slicked straight back, but center or 
side-parted, so more of the greased-out parts show around the face and 
shoulders. WHY would one want their well-made-up face framed with greasy (= 
DIRTY) hair?

I think maybe I've seen Jennifer Anniston's hair in this condition; am pretty 
sure that I've seen Hillary Clinton's hair in this state, but she at least has 
the excuse of a crazy-busy schedule which might, on occasion, keep her hair 
unwashed for longer than she might prefer. But I've also seen a LOT of women 
with their hair in this condition, both in the media and in real life.

Does anyone have an opinion on WHY anyone would ever appear in public looking 
like they hadn't washed their hair in 3 weeks, and apparently think it's a GOOD 
look???  

thanks much!
chimene the sometimes clueless
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Re: [h-cost] Sharing links, was: Puts the burden where it belongs!

[Patricia Dunham]

??? I have had a puzzlement understanding the flurry about this.  It never 
occured to me that those links might be a virus danger. Why not?

1. All three links had the same modesty glasses phrase IN THE LINK; the 
Huffpo link had a LOT more verbiage than that, which made the subject even more 
clear. Anyone who had concerns could have taken that modesty glasses phrase 
and googled it, rather than clicking any of the links. 

2. I've also never seen a suspicious-link post with THREE urls in it. I've ever 
only seen single links, and those single links are usually strings of 
gobble-de-gook that you can't get any sense from.

just my two-cents.
chimene
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Re: [h-cost] Copper

[Patricia Dunham]

Part of the problem, it could possibly be a version of several different types, 
so one name may not get  you what you're looking for.

This hat, yes? 
http://www.bbcamerica.com/copper/blog/where-to-watch-copper/?cm_mmc=Responsys-_-email-_-BBCA_2012_08_20_newsletter-_-emailutm_medium=Emailutm_source=Responsysutm_campaign=BBCA_2012_08_20_newsletter

My husband has been researching men's hats of around this period for Steampunk 
play. My reaction to most of the links below is that the brims are all too wide 
and up-curved, but he assures me that it's perfectly ordinary and possible to 
flatten a too-curved brim with steam. 

So then you get to flat-ness of the crown and height. He says the Coachman's 
hat at the Gentleman's Emporium looks pretty close.  Although the GE site dates 
this to late 1800's and Copper appears to be set WHILE the Civil War is still 
going on (1864 to be exact).

John Bull seems to be a bit of a catch-all term... he's seen a TON of variation 
in what is labelled John Bull on-line.

Derby style is quite late 1800's - early 1900's, so it's unlikely that this, in 
period, would have been referred to as a derby anything. AND Derby's ALL have 
a rounded crown.

There is a ton of variation in hat styles during this period, and next to no 
mass-production, which also lends itself to infinite variation. In teh 
husband's research so far, a sharp edge between the top and sides would have 
been constructed (felting would probably be softer, curvier, but MIGHT be 
sharpenable at the starching stage). And also depends on the hat form being 
used.

Note that the chief sidekick wears ALMOST the same hat as above, except with a 
noticeably lower crown! (or maybe just a smaller crown, argh) Well. At the link 
above there's a tab for Characters which gives a good idea of the 
cross-section of hats that may appear in the series. It does look like these 
may be pre-production shots though, as Corcoran and Maguire appear to be 
mix-n-matching at least two hats between them! Although no sign of my 
lower-impression Maguire hat!

Different people also wore their hats higher or lower on the head, which makes 
a very large difference in the appearance, as does the hardness or softness of 
the material of the hat.

There are also lots and lots of images (with links to other suppliers), if you 
google John Bull hat and look at the IMAGES.

have fun!
chimene


On Sep 8, 2012, at 8:44 PM, Lauren Walker wrote:

 I don't know -- looking at the 19th-century costume hatters, there are hats 
 they're calling low derby or flat top derby that look like  it;
 http://www.ushist.com/19th-century_mens_hats_f.shtml
 it also looks like their coachman hats.
 http://www.gentlemansemporium.com/store/000397.php?gclid=CPOTwuDJp7ICFUXf4AodzA4Agg
 
 Most entertaining to me is that what it *really* looks like is a modern-day 
 women's dressage hat.
 Dressage hat:
 http://www.doversaddlery.com/wool-felt-dressage-hat-chrstys/p/X1-36035/
 
 I get that it doesn't have the rounded crown of a modern-day derby or bowler, 
 but the 19th century versions were sometimes flat. 
 It doesn't look tall enough to me to be a top hat, however. 
 
 Lauren M. Walker
 lauren.wal...@comcast.net
 
 
 
 On Sep 8, 2012, at 11:29 PM, Kim Baird wrote:
 
 I don't know what it's called, but it's obviously a top hat with a short
 crown. Nothing like a derby or a pork pie.
 Kim
 
 -Original Message-
 From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
 Behalf Of Lauren Walker
 Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 9:36 PM
 To: h-costume h-costume
 Subject: [h-cost] Copper
 
 I'm watching Copper on BBC America. Can someone tell me what the hat
 Corcoran wears is called? It's sort of a porkpie, but a little taller than
 the modern version that goes by that name, and the crown's not creased
 anywhere. 
 Or maybe its a derby with the crown flattened? 
 Anyway it's a great hat. 
 I'm enjoying the costumes on this show, maybe because I don't know the
 period all that well!
 Thanks!
 Lauren
 Lauren M. Walker
 lauren.wal...@comcast.net
 
 
 
 
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Re: [h-cost] Looking for Cherry Dawson's Stays Instructions

[Patricia Dunham]

I have just been told that the Wayback copies of the Stays Instructions are 
hacked and unreadable. And indeed they are. BUT, FYI, we have managed to pull a 
complete copy of the text (the illustrations were all vandalized and turned 
into spam-ad-graphics, unfortunately). 

If I knew how to get in touch with Ms Dawson, I would offer her webspace on our 
Ravensgard pages for this article or anything else she wanted to put back on 
the web. (we're in the process of creating a 
Steampunk/Victorian/Post-Renaissance page, at Ravensgard.org)

Chimene

On Aug 3, 2012, at 7:21 PM, Patricia Dunham wrote:

 you might try the Wayback Machine at  
 http://web.archive.org/web/20080516072118/http://cherrydawson.com/StaysWorkshop/stays_notes.htm#Choosing
  
 
 Most of the instructions appear to be there, except for the Measuring, but if 
 you search for cherrydawson.com and poke around some more dates besides the 
 above url (May 2008), the measuring ones may turn up???
 
 chimene
 
 On Aug 3, 2012, at 4:59 AM, Aylwen Gardiner-Garden wrote:
 
 Does anyone here have a copy of the instructions from Cherry Dawson's stays
 workshop? Its now offline but I'd be very keen to read it.
 Many thanks,
 Aylwen


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Re: [h-cost] Looking for Cherry Dawson's Stays Instructions

[Patricia Dunham]

you might try the Wayback Machine at  
http://web.archive.org/web/20080516072118/http://cherrydawson.com/StaysWorkshop/stays_notes.htm#Choosing
 

Most of the instructions appear to be there, except for the Measuring, but if 
you search for cherrydawson.com and poke around some more dates besides the 
above url (May 2008), the measuring ones may turn up???

chimene

On Aug 3, 2012, at 4:59 AM, Aylwen Gardiner-Garden wrote:

 Does anyone here have a copy of the instructions from Cherry Dawson's stays
 workshop? Its now offline but I'd be very keen to read it.
 Many thanks,
 Aylwen
 
 *Aylwen Gardiner-Garden*
 *
 *
 *Earthly Delights Historic Dance Academy http://www.earthlydelights.com.au
 *
 *Jane Austen Festival Australia* http://www.janeaustenfestival.com
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Re: [h-cost] [12thCgarb] Sari Bliaut

[Patricia Dunham]

well... I'm afraid I have no idea why it's not working for you. FWIW, I am 
using an iMac, OSX 10.6.8, Safari 5.1.7, Firefox 13.0.1  I have not seen 
anything about passwords at all.

umm my husband (my techie) says if you're using a PC, the line-breaks in the 
urls may be confusing your browser? you see where each of those URLs is too 
long for one line, so it's broken by the mail program? 

on either browser, I can back up the url to just kyleandrewsphotography.com, 
pick SCA, and go from there. or http://kyleandrewsphotography.com;. or 
possibly Google Kyle Andrews Photography -- it's the first thing that comes 
up in the results.
 
if you have to start from the beginning of 2006 Spring Crown Tournament, the 
blue/purple dress is on page 12 of 59 also 54  55 , the maroon is on pp. 52, 
53, 57

hope this helps,
chimene

On Jul 2, 2012, at 7:35 PM, S A wrote:

 I'm a member of the 12thCgarb group, and I saw that you posted links to the 
 images that have been discussed about a particular bliaut.
 
 Those links are totally broken for me.  I cannot even access the homepage for 
 them; I've tried multiple browsers, and each one says the page does not 
 exist.  Is it password-protected?  If so, it might be nice for those of us 
 without the password to not have to wonder what's wrong.

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Re: [h-cost] What is a Whip?

[Patricia Dunham]

didn't mean to diss any non-East coaching/driving folk; just that what I found 
on-line first was the Newport weekend page...
ch.

On Jun 29, 2012, at 7:57 AM, Data-Samtak Susan wrote:

 A correction to the the East Coast upper crust here in the US.:
 
 Many horse owners ride and drive their horses in the USA.  Some folks drive 
 one pony and others can afford to drive 4 horses pulling a large carriage, as 
 described in the original email. Some folks drive just for fun and other 
 compete for titles and championships.
 
 FMI:  http://www.gladstonedriving.org/History/gea_whip.html
 
 SUsan
 
 On Jun 28, 12, at 10:58 PM, Patricia Dunham wrote:
 
 from context on this page http://vasportsman.com/Coaching_in_Newport.pdf, I 
 believe that in the modern sport of Coaching, whip may refer to the main 
 driver, usually the owner or at least the organizer of a coaching group, the 
 one who weilds the literal whip.
 
 Coaching, as is currently quite popular in England, because of Prince 
 Phillip's enthusiasm for it, and apparently among the East Coast upper crust 
 here in the US. Supporting multiple, multiple-horse teams, building and 
 maintaining carriages -- definitely a 1% avocation.
 
 chimene
 
 
 On Jun 27, 2012, at 9:41 PM, penn...@costumegallery.com 
 penn...@costumegallery.com wrote:
 
 I am working with a 1914 etiquette book and a person titled Whip is used in
 the section about Dress When Driving.  What / Who is a Whip in this context?
 
 Men who are guests on a coach wear morning or afternoon dress according to
 the hour of the day on which the vehicle makes its start.  The whip, if the
 host of the occasion, is usually arrayed in distinctive costume.  A gray
 suit is the usual selection for spring and summer, brown is a frequent
 choice for the autumn..  In the country, and in summer, a gentleman whip
 wears a light colored and light-weight suit, with brown shoes and gloves and
 a straw or panama hat.
 
 For touring, or driving an automobile.No ceremonious costume for men has yet
 been evolved to approximate, in style and completeness, the formal dress an
 amateur whip wears.
 


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Re: [h-cost] Dyed cloth from the Iron Age

[Patricia Dunham]

the Urumchi/Taklamakan textiles are dated 1900 BC to 200 AD (Wiki article on 
Tarim Mummies); and that article notes that EJW Barber compared the textiles 
to those at the Halstatt salt mines, which are dated 8th to 6th centuries BC 
(European Early Iron Age) in the Wiki Halstatt article. (I had to fall back to 
Wiki because I have read her books, but not recently)   (egad, no Wiki article 
on HER, just lots of ref.s TO her in textile history articles) 

yes, your ... associate certainly doesn't know as much as she thinks she does 
about textile history, if she's never read Elizabeth Barber!!! 

The books are: The Mummies of Urumchi; Women's Work: The First 20,000 Years: 
Women, Cloth, and Society in Early Times; and Prehistoric Textiles: The 
Development of Cloth in the Neolithic and Bronze Ages with Special Reference to 
the Aegean 

chimene

On Jul 1, 2012, at 10:20 AM, Joan Jurancich wrote:

 At 02:36 PM 6/29/2012, you wrote:
 Would love a source if you have one. I have someone that has drummed into
 folks that patterned cloth only goes as far back as the Middle Ages. The
 Iron Age article will dumbstrike her and further back will blow her away. :)
 
 -Original Message-
 
 Actually, patterned cloth is much older than the Iron-Age.
 
 Joan Jurancich
 joa...@surewest.net
 
 I have two books in my collection, both by Elizabeth Wayland Barber.  The 
 first is Prehistoric Textiles: The development of cloth in the Neolithic and 
 Bronze Ages, with special reference to the Aegean; the second is The 
 Mummies of Urumchi.  The former has some color pictures of some of the few 
 surviving textiles that have discernable color patterns (very few textiles 
 survive in Europe except for those in the lake bottoms of Switzerland (linen) 
 and the bog textiles in Northern Europe (woolens), both of which have any 
 colors totally masked by the preservation conditions; one exception is in the 
 salt mines). There are some Egyptian textiles preserved by the dryness of the 
 environment that show some colors. In the latter book, again it is extreme 
 dryness that preserves woolen textiles in all their colorful glory.
 
 It's interesting that someone has such a jaundiced view of textile history.  
 People have been weaving colorful patterned textiles for at least the past 
 4,000 years. And, yes, I am an early textile technology geek. 8-) In fact, in 
 late October I am taking a 3-day workshop on spinning and weaving for 
 historic textile reproduction/re-creation.
 
 Joan Jurancich
 joa...@surewest.net 
 
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Re: [h-cost] What is a Whip?

[Patricia Dunham]

from context on this page http://vasportsman.com/Coaching_in_Newport.pdf, I 
believe that in the modern sport of Coaching, whip may refer to the main 
driver, usually the owner or at least the organizer of a coaching group, the 
one who weilds the literal whip.

Coaching, as is currently quite popular in England, because of Prince Phillip's 
enthusiasm for it, and apparently among the East Coast upper crust here in the 
US. Supporting multiple, multiple-horse teams, building and maintaining 
carriages -- definitely a 1% avocation.

chimene


On Jun 27, 2012, at 9:41 PM, penn...@costumegallery.com 
penn...@costumegallery.com wrote:

 I am working with a 1914 etiquette book and a person titled Whip is used in
 the section about Dress When Driving.  What / Who is a Whip in this context?
 
 
 
 Men who are guests on a coach wear morning or afternoon dress according to
 the hour of the day on which the vehicle makes its start.  The whip, if the
 host of the occasion, is usually arrayed in distinctive costume.  A gray
 suit is the usual selection for spring and summer, brown is a frequent
 choice for the autumn..  In the country, and in summer, a gentleman whip
 wears a light colored and light-weight suit, with brown shoes and gloves and
 a straw or panama hat.
 
 
 
 For touring, or driving an automobile.No ceremonious costume for men has yet
 been evolved to approximate, in style and completeness, the formal dress an
 amateur whip wears.
 
 
 
 Penny Ladnier, owner
 
 The Costume Gallery Websites
 
 http://www.costumegallery.com/ www.costumegallery.com
 
 15 websites of fashion, costume, and textile history
 
 FaceBook:  http://www.facebook.com/TheCostumeGallery
 http://www.facebook.com/TheCostumeGallery 
 
 
 
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[h-cost] PING PLEASE?

[Patricia Dunham]

It is now 12.30 am (just after midnight) Friday morning.  There has been 
nothing come in since about 9.30 AM Friday. that's 15+ hours and seems like a 
long time.

I know it's just before SOME  4th-of-July-long-weekend events, but it seems 
early for EVERYbody to have disappeared?

see you soon, I hope
chimene
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[h-cost] OP - Pret-a-Papier, Isabelle de Borchagrave exhibit

[Patricia Dunham]

Oh, I do waste so much time these days skimming the Daily Mail gossip articles, 
8-), BUT~ !!! Sometimes you find things like this:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2164388/Pret-papier-The-incredible-period-gowns-recreated-paper-glue-paint--stitch-fabric.html

related article at the WaPo: 
http://www.washingtonpost.com/entertainment/museums/art-explained/2012/06/22/gJQAIiTFvV_story.html

and the Museum website where the exhibit is:  http://www.hillwoodmuseum.org/
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Re: [h-cost] What's your dressmaker's dummy wearing today?

[Patricia Dunham]

skirt elastic, not too bad... well, the channel in one really cheap skirt is 
unstitching itself, but the elastic is pretty OK.

On another hand, has anyone else had inexpensive sweat pants suddenly start 
burning up the waist elastic in the dryer, and stinking up the whole 
dryer-ful something awful?

My 19yo is NOT a clothes-horse, typical teen who wears pretty much all black, 
and his staple 3 pair of cheap black sweat pants started doing this a couple of 
months ago! 

I have finally decided those pants do not EVER go in the dryer again! I'm 
line-drying them now, and that's working.  

But it sure was a pain figuring it out! (I only do about one cold wash a week, 
so it took me a while to work through a couple of possible solutions.

chimene


On May 20, 2012, at 1:55 PM, Lavolta Press wrote:

 If we can whine about how things ain't like they usta be, has anyone else 
 noticed that most elastic does not last as long as it used to?  I've been 
 fixing all these skirts with elastic waists that just died after a few 
 months, and I wasn't even wearing them much.
 
 Fran

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Re: [h-cost] Grrrrr ... !

[Patricia Dunham]

there are lots of articles on-line about making your own at home. including a 
number about how to fix various problems that occur with home-made, 8-)

cornstarch, potato-water starch, etc, etc.

chimene

On May 16, 2012, at 3:49 AM, stils...@netspace.net.au wrote:

 
 Guddammut, time for a Cartman-like rant:
 
 Those *%$$!   bxstards at the   #@^$! supermarket have stopped
 stocking %(#! starch. Real starch, not that %$!@)( spray lubricant.
 You bxstards!
 
 -C.


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Re: [h-cost] Grrrrr ... !

[Patricia Dunham]

wow does that sound familiar... the secret computer report on what MY household 
buys, so they can quit carrying exactly those items!

oh, and my DH's theory that the MOST POPULAR items are highly likely to get 
dropped, because it's so much bother re-stocking the popular stuff all the 
time... customers keep buying and emptying the shelves, so we have to work 
harder to keep these items in stock -- nah, let's drop 'em  save ourselves the 
work

and when some national corp. giant buys out your local chain and replaces LOCAL 
products with house-brand stuff from wherever they are home-based.

chimene (where Kroger from the MidWest bought Fred Meyer of Oregon and wrought 
all sorts of havoc; and where local WINCO chain is expanding into CA and 
wreaking all sorts of havoc with their stock as they lower and lower the common 
denominator, dropping NW local products for stuff that they can get in 
greater volume, because of the CA store explosion)

On May 16, 2012, at 4:52 AM, annbw...@aol.com wrote:

 And superfine sugar, and tarragon vinegar, and . . . .
 Heard a woman the other day swear that our largest local chain deliberately 
 goes through and quits carrying x items a month that she buys all the time.


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Re: [h-cost] [spam posted Sorry just found out I got jacked

[Patricia Dunham]

if it might be a cookie, you could purge your whole cookie file. we do that 
occasionally on principal, and sometimes when things have slowed down a bunch. 
Safari. good luck!  should be able to do it on Firefox too. it's not terribly 
inconvenient, probably 99% of cookies will replace themselves the next time you 
go to whatever site they came from.
chimene

On Mar 12, 2012, at 5:36 PM, Melody Watts wrote:

 Just found out I got jack evenwith Nortons' all 3 of my addresses.
 
 Soorry will try to figure oout how to get rid of it
 
 
 
 From: Marjorie Wilser the3t...@gmail.com
 To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com 
 Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 3:57 PM
 Subject: [h-cost] the spam message just posted
 
 I clicked on it because it seemed like a valid list post. However, it opens a 
 web page in your browser. When you try to close the page, it creates a popup 
 message asking you why you want to close it, with only ONE choice-- an OK to 
 continue loading it.
 
 To get rid of it, I had to quit Firefox. Now, when Firefox reboots, that 
 (*(* page is still there, demanding that I OK it. Which, naturally, I will 
 not do.
 
 I am not blaming the sender, who seems to be a Listmember, but the insidious 
 cookie she must have on her machine, which is determined to captivate all our 
 clicks.
 
 However, I am very, very bummed.  I hope none of you are taken in by it. Bleh.
 
 ==Marjorie Wilser
 
 @..@  @..@  @..@
 Three Toad Press
 http://3toad.blogspot.com/
 
 
 
 
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[h-cost] ping? nothing since Jan 13 WAS: buttons

[Patricia Dunham]

On the one hand, I know that's probably 12th night weekend a lot of places, but 
it does seem like a long time...

thanks!


On Jan 13, 2012, at 7:46 PM, R Lloyd Mitchell wrote:

 fran, if there is any special type of button you might need for a project, I 
 too havea wonderful collection of said buttons , some in the counts of 
 12/18...we could do some kind of exchange if I should have what you are 
 looking for...
 KSM
 -Original Message-
 From: Lavolta Press f...@lavoltapress.com
 Sent 1/13/2012 1:43:36 PM
 To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com
 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Source for buttonsI've been using original Victorian 
 and Edwardian buttons for years. I
 used to buy big cards wherever I could find them, and my father bought
 me lots of button boxes and jars from estate auctions. I still get ...


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Re: [h-cost] What costume-related gifts did you get?

[Patricia Dunham]

Well, I got Medieval Clothing  Textiles #7 for my birthday on Dec 4... don't 
know if that counts, 8-)

But this morning there were 2 books about SCA-period cooking  recipes, lots of 
other books, a lovely set of long scarves that Santa found at the flea 
market, but not really anything costume-related. Well, not SCA-period costume, 
did get a Mucha calendar with a few images that are actually new-to-us. (We do 
SO miss the Medieval Women calendar series!)

The Queen's Servants sounds interesting, as my husband has an interest in HVII 
period, and I am a Ricardian. I look forward to other tales-o'-loot!

Have a nice Day!
chimene

On Dec 25, 2011, at 11:45 AM, Lavolta Press wrote:

 I got:
 
 War and Worship: Textiles from 3rd to 4th Century AD
 The Queen's Servants: Gentlewomen's Dress at the Accession of Henry VIII
 Ornamentalism:  The Art of Renaissance Accessories
 The Empire's New Clothes: A History of the Russian Fashion Industry 1700-1917
 Facing Beauty:  Painted Women and Cosmetic Art
 
 Also DVDs of seasons 1 and 2 of the Spice and Wolf anime series
 
 I gave my husband (among other things) Volume 2 of the graphic novel The 
 Extraordinary Adventures of Adele Blanc-Sec, which I am looking forward to 
 reading after he does.
 
 What did you get?
 
 Fran
 Lavolta Press
 Books on historic clothing
 www.lavoltapress.com
 www.facebook.com/LavoltaPress
 
 
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[h-cost] SCAM ALERT - HEPHAESTUS BOOKS

[Patricia Dunham]

Warn your loved ones away from this item (my DH thought he had found something 
new and appropriate for my birthday on Dec 4) and this bogus publisher.  This 
may not be news to some of you because this outfit has a lot of professional 
science fiction authors all riled up too (they are printing collections ABOUT 
authors' works, making it look like their volume contains the texts of the 
works, not just commentary, and the commentaries they are printing out are also 
available free on the web, but HB is getting money for them) See  CJ Cherryh's 
blog, she's apparently one of the first to have caught on these people.

Anyway, their contribution to the area of Medieval Recreation includes this 
volume:  

Medieval Costume, including: Surcoat, Codpiece, Wimple, Phrygian Cap, Yellow 
Badge, Plague Doctor, Chemise, Bodice, Jewish Hat, Poulaine, Chaperon ... 
1400-1500 In Fashion, 1300-1400 In Fashion [Paperback]

I Posted The Following Review At Amazon (WHAT Is Going On With Every Word 
Capitalized! Can't Escape It!!! Weird) Anyway, And Am Going To Copy It To BN 
Also.

BAD PUBLISHER:  This item is a series of Wikipedia articles printed off and 
bound like a paperback. The information is available FREE ON-LINE! 
Illustrations are small, dark BW. DO NOT WASTE YOUR MONEY, OR GET YOUR HOPES 
UP that this is an actual useful book.

I don't KNOW if they have any Medieval Food  Cooking titles, but they 
apparently have 192 thousand of their constructs available, so am also copying 
this to my other main list.

Good luck  Happy Holidays
chimene
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Re: [h-cost] Renaissance dance costumes

[Patricia Dunham]

Hi Aylwen,

Is there some reason you preferred the first pattern?  As someone said, it 
doesn't look much like -my- idea of Italian Renn.  looks almost German to me, 
but my DH says it just looks real middle class (on the right) and lower class 
(the serving woman on the left).  The overgown and sectional sleeve elements 
are what look upper class to most folks, I think.

scale will be important in the stage decor parts... things DO need to be larger 
scale to register, but not so much bigger that they look chees-y.

on the problem of short doublets  tights...  1) proper short-short doublets 
would probably NOT be fast or easy to make.  2) take a look at the guy on the 
left here, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Botticelli_magi_detail.jpg  that 
red tabard-y/houpeland-y thing would be MUCH easier to do, the blue-gray 
sleeves would be much easier to do and tie on to some kind of simple base under 
the red, and, IMPORTANT, look how long the red thing is!  covers delicate 
bits!!!  3) take a look at florentine-persona.com, some good pics of the 
giornea (tabard-y thing) in period sources, and even longer than the red 
Botticelli; AND on the closet page, made up on a real person's body!

and that's just what I found in a half-hour of thrashing around teh google.

good luck!
chimene

On Nov 7, 2011, at 3:58 PM, Aylwen Gardiner-Garden wrote:

 Dear H-cost list
 
 I have to make 20 costumes for an upcoming Italian renaissance performance
 and have been thinking about using
 http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/products/rh509-1470s-1500-florentine-womans-outfit-1#.
 Can you think of different ways we can decorate these gowns so they
 don't
 all look the same? Plus they need to look grand because we will be on stage
 under lights.
 
 I am still working out what to dress the men in, and fear they will not
 want to wear short doublets and tights :((
 
 *Aylwen*
 *
 *
 *Aylwen's Historical Costumes*
 www.aylwen.com
 http://aylwen.blogspot.com
 *
 *
 *Earthly Delights Historic Dance Academy*
 www.earthlydelights.com.au
 http://edhda.eventbrite.com
 
 
 *
 *
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Re: [h-cost] Renaissance dance costumes

[Patricia Dunham]

thanks very much for the additional information, Teena.  

I'm obviously no expert in Italian Renn; I am just a fan, 8-).  I didn't 
realize that the first pattern was for the undergown of the more well-known (to 
amateurs, apparently) giornea ensemble.  I MIGHT have picked that up if the 
pattern company drawings were not quite so simplified, or if I'd read the 
accompanying text more closely.  

You're right, my husband was right, I'm a dunce, 8-), and, unfortunately, all 
too often a loud-mouthed one also!

cheers,
chimene


On Nov 8, 2011, at 2:29 AM, Beteena Paradise wrote:

 I have to strongly disagree with you, Patricia, about the gowns not looking 
 like Italian ren. If you look at portraits by Ghirlandaio you will see that 
 the gowns (especially the one on the right) are exactly the same. The fabrics 
 are different and the richer ones are obviously a nicer fabric, but same cut. 
 A lot of them are covered by giorneas but you can still make out the gowns 
 underneath.
 http://www.sai.msu.su/cjackson/ghirlandaio/p-ghirlandaio2.htm
 
 http://www.artcyclopedia.org/art/domenico-ghirlandaio-woman.jpg
 
 http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_j7xkQHEYUok/S-e24nMhLOI/DAA/1DsiBpSFoW4/s1600/ghirlandaio_tornabuoni.jpg
 
 http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_72Z080GKe8A/TQqjHBSg0mI/AWY/g4Js0-tpwlg/s640/ghirlandaio_1490_port_lady_red_bodice.jpg
 
 http://www.topofart.com/images/artists/Domenico_Ghirlandaio/paintings/ghirlandaio005.jpg
 
 http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_72Z080GKe8A/TQqjLw4JHxI/AWg/DPT5w-h7vLk/s1600/Ghirlandaio-Girl.jpg
 
 http://www.artbible.net/3JC/-Luk-01,39_Mary%20visits%20Elizabeth_La%20visitation/15%20GHIRLANDAIO%20DOMENICO%20JB%2002%20VISITATION.jpg
 
 
 Teena
 
 
 
 
 From: Patricia Dunham chim...@ravensgard.org
 To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com
 Sent: Tuesday, November 8, 2011 9:33 AM
 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Renaissance dance costumes
 
 Hi Aylwen,
 
 Is there some reason you preferred the first pattern?  As someone said, it 
 doesn't look much like -my- idea of Italian Renn.  looks almost German to me, 
 but my DH says it just looks real middle class (on the right) and lower class 
 (the serving woman on the left).  The overgown and sectional sleeve elements 
 are what look upper class to most folks, I think.
 
 scale will be important in the stage decor parts... things DO need to be 
 larger scale to register, but not so much bigger that they look chees-y.
 
 on the problem of short doublets  tights...  1) proper short-short doublets 
 would probably NOT be fast or easy to make.  2) take a look at the guy on the 
 left here, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Botticelli_magi_detail.jpg  that 
 red tabard-y/houpeland-y thing would be MUCH easier to do, the blue-gray 
 sleeves would be much easier to do and tie on to some kind of simple base 
 under the red, and, IMPORTANT, look how long the red thing is!  covers 
 delicate bits!!!  3) take a look at florentine-persona.com, some good pics of 
 the giornea (tabard-y thing) in period sources, and even longer than the red 
 Botticelli; AND on the closet page, made up on a real person's body!
 
 and that's just what I found in a half-hour of thrashing around teh google.
 
 good luck!
 chimene
 
 On Nov 7, 2011, at 3:58 PM, Aylwen Gardiner-Garden wrote:
 
 Dear H-cost list
 
 I have to make 20 costumes for an upcoming Italian renaissance performance
 and have been thinking about using
 http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/products/rh509-1470s-1500-florentine-womans-outfit-1#.
 Can you think of different ways we can decorate these gowns so they
 don't
 all look the same? Plus they need to look grand because we will be on stage
 under lights.
 
 I am still working out what to dress the men in, and fear they will not
 want to wear short doublets and tights :((
 
 *Aylwen*
 *
 *
 *Aylwen's Historical Costumes*
 www.aylwen.com
 http://aylwen.blogspot.com
 *
 *
 *Earthly Delights Historic Dance Academy*
 www.earthlydelights.com.au
 http://edhda.eventbrite.com
 
 
 *
 *
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Re: [h-cost] Salt Source

[Patricia Dunham]

depending on where you live, you MIGHT be able to find bulk salt at a hardware 
store, for de-icing sidewalks and steps and so-forth? or possibly at a farm 
supply. this would be the time of year it would be in stock...  

OR, the husband remembers, when we did our REALLY BIG dye job (canvas two-pole 
SCA tent), we ordered 50# bags through our local warehouse grocery!  (WINCO, in 
Oregon, WA, N Calif, etc.)  that worked fine.  well, the first time it came in 
iodized, but they took it back and the SECOND time it came in right! 8-)

chimene


On Oct 30, 2011, at 4:21 PM, Mary + Doug Piero Carey wrote:

 Yep, dyeing.  I've got a batch of stuff I want to overdye black.
 
 Mary
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Re: [h-cost] Steampunk shoes, anyone?

[Patricia Dunham]

fascinating.  anybody know what you would call (for googling purposes) the JADE 
cut shoe, if it was plain black leather, also lace-up top, with a plain heel 
about the same height?  looks SO close to the funny little shoes my farm/ranch 
grandma used to wear, all the years I ever noticed them!  they were her 
every-day, working in the farmyard shoes (slopping pigs, picking eggs, milking, 
etc, etc)  

she was quite short (around 5-foot or slightly less? and Grandad was at least 
6-foot!), and had a very shapely ankle and calf, even if her torso was a 
matronly fire-plug.  boy do I remember those shoes.  the period I remember them 
from would have been ca. 1950-75???  she was born ca. 1900.  they were probably 
a catalog item...

thanks, just in case!
chimene

On Oct 29, 2011, at 11:18 AM, Lavolta Press wrote:

 http://www.sinistersoles.com/Metropolis-Shoes-JADE-Steampunk-Shoes-p/s-metropolis-jade-shoes-brz.htm
 
 http://www.sinistersoles.com/Metropolis-Shoes-VINTAGE-Steampunk-Boots-p/s-metropolis-vintage-boots-b.htm
 
 Fran
 Lavolta Press
 Books on making historic clothing
 www.lavoltapress.com
 www.steampunk.com/LavoltaPress
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Re: [h-cost] mystery term

[Patricia Dunham]

having just spent 20 min searching HARD, and finding nothing but several 
references to the Lanvin skirt Beteena linked to...  where did YOU come across 
this term?  I can't find ANYTHING on-line!  the vintage lanvin pattern search 
starts in the New Wave.

have found a couple of vintage pattern dealers who list the actual pattern, 
don't know if either of them (URLs) are still good...
http://www.pastpatterns.com/7959.html
http://www.stylehive.com/bookmark/ladies-and-misses-afternoon-dress-circa-1934-93855
 (although this may be a reference back to the pastpatterns listing?)

chimene, now REALLY curious to know what a hesitation hem is, 8-) although I'm 
generally not interested in this period AT ALL, 8-)


On Oct 7, 2011, at 6:19 AM, Astrida Schaeffer wrote:

 Anyone ever heard of a hesitation hem???
 
 
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Re: [h-cost] Venting a bit: sourcing

[Patricia Dunham]

go to the about button at the top of the page

there's a contact me link at the very bottom of her bio/intro...  she's a 
middle-aged lady from Jamaica, may be a good seamstress, and mean well, but not 
be very sophisticated about crediting and borrowing and stuff...  IMHO a gentle 
approach might be a good idea, in case she is really a well-meaning 
on-line/copyright innocent

I'm just a pollyanna: if she doesn't know better, I wouldn't want her slammed 
too hard. 

chimene


On Sep 27, 2011, at 9:29 PM, Galadriel wrote:

 I was looking up notched collar drafts online just so I don't have to produce 
 my own for a class I'm teaching and came across this site:
 
 http://www.pattern-making.com/men-notch-collar/
 
 It really irks me that this woman takes her draft, charts, and diagrams 
 straight out of Masaaki Kawashima's book (FUNDAMENTALS OF MEN'S FASHION 
 DESIGN), doesn't credit him, and then puts her own watermark all over it like 
 it is hers.  And I can't even find a place on this website to send her an 
 e-mail to tell her what I think about it.
 
 I wouldn't even care so much if she just credited her source.  Grr.
 
 --Rachel (back to lurking now, thanks.)
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Re: [h-cost] Pink?

[Patricia Dunham]

On Sep 25, 2011, at 11:22 AM, Bambi TBNL wrote:

 this is a two part question .
 first is the flower originally called the pink, what we , today, call a  
 carnation or the origin of that flower?
yes, see esp the Dianthus caryophyllus  article on Wiki, 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dianthus_caryophyllus

 if it is, is the regular jagged edge, part of the origin of the term 
 pinking?.   
sorta, see  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink  there's a large set of notes for 
this article, and lots of related articles link from this one

 Im trying to use this for a masked ball i plan to attend soon where the theme 
 is...come as your favorite pun.
 t i would appreciate and sources if ya happen to have them as i am totally 
 lost.
 
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[h-cost] costume on book covers, argh

[Patricia Dunham]

Just ran across, by accident, 2 new CECELIA HOLLAND's -- hooray.  THEN I looked 
them up online and the covers -- argh!  Obviously art-directed at the bodice 
ripper set!  

The King's Witch is a Richard II period piece with a not-very-good Ren-faire 
wench in green, @ 
http://www.amazon.com/Kings-Witch-Cecelia-Holland/dp/0425241300/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpt_2.
  

And The Secret Eleanor [of Acquitaine], which cover is better but not anywhere 
near right, @ 
http://www.amazon.com/Secret-Eleanor-Cecelia-Holland/dp/0425234509.

Recent re-issue of Great Maria is even afflicted with this... although the 
cover looks like a renaissance angel, THAT is not appropriate for Maria!  
http://www.amazon.com/Great-Maria-Cecelia-Holland/dp/B005CDUUD2/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpt_3

The original Great Maria cover, 
http://www.amazon.com/Great-Maria-Cecelia-Holland/dp/0394485092/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpt_5
 I now know isn't period for the story either, but at least looks period to 
SOME time!  

Funny how the original covers from the central-male-character, 1960-70-80  
2000s titles are all very reasonable.

chimene (a huge CH fan, for decades!!!)
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Re: [h-cost] Movie Costume Question: McGonagall's Yule Ensemble

[Patricia Dunham]

I also noted a BUNCH of interlining mentioned, it probably will be stiff as a 
board by the time all layers are in place.  which it would need to be, to deal 
with the gathered-on sleeve-ishes.  

On Sep 22, 2011, at 3:21 PM, Sharon Henderson wrote:

 I bought the discontinued Simplicity 2529 both for the Yule outfit and
 just to have it, because though I would probably never use it as
 is you never know, just as you said, when some interesting chance
 might arise!  :)
 
 Now to have fun with muslin, trying to get that peak into the top of a
 sleeve cap!  It doesn't look as if it should be too difficult  :)
 
 Thanks!
 Meli
 (Sharon)
 
 
 Chimene wrote:
 
 pattern arrived today.  looks like the principle is basically building
 in an up-turn with shaped parts of a yoke, from which various front
 and back panels depend in the center, and the sleeve panels of the
 cape are attached to the points.
 
 So, as long as you can pull up the web-page, and the shopping cart is
 working, I expect you can collect the pattern if you want.  until they
 run out at the warehouses.
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Re: [h-cost] Saques

[Patricia Dunham]

My immediate reaction to the pictures (thanks!!!), was... hmm, look at the 
discolorations, maybe hard-used... reminds me of the idea of a pinafore or 
apron, for the top half of the body!  

I had descriptions from both grandmothers, I think, of their childhood 
wardrobes, of one dress for Sunday, one dress for the rest of the week, and a 
clean pinafore for every day!  So only the pinafores got washed weekly...  with 
the long sleeves for grown women, this would make sense, to me, anyway, because 
women would be doing housework and cooking that could easily dirty the sleeve 
at the wrist and lower arm, so that part of the under dress would also need 
protection, not just the front of the under dress...

Are there any adult-sized pinafores or aprons in those garbage bags, of similar 
material?  Or have you gotten that far yet?

The ruffled neck is very interesting, for a utilitarian item... but I suppose 
if you were going to be spending a large part of the day in it, it would be an 
easy way to fancy-up a little...

Looking forward to hearing more as yr excavations continue through bag-land.

chimene

  
On Sep 22, 2011, at 11:22 AM, WorkroomButtons.com wrote:

 Definitely not a clothing expert, either, but it certainly makes sense to me. 
  Consultants far wiser than I have documented them as garments specifically 
 worn by women.
 
 Link: www.flickr.com/photos/workroombuttons/sets/72157627724105088/detail
 
 Dede
 
 
 
 --- On Thu, 9/22/11, Angelique Carlson subversivey...@me.com wrote:
 
 Disclaimer- I am not a costuming expert, I just like clothes and lurk here.
 I wonder if they might be for women who are breastfeeding? You could have 
 access quickly, which was necessary for me, and also modesty. What do you 
 think?
 
 Angelique
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Re: [h-cost] Movie Costume Question: McGonagall's Yule Ensemble

[Patricia Dunham]

pattern arrived today.  looks like the principle is basically building in an 
up-turn with shaped parts of a yoke, from which various front and back panels 
depend in the center, and the sleeve panels of the cape are attached to the 
points.

So, as long as you can pull up the web-page, and the shopping cart is working, 
I expect you can collect the pattern if you want.  until they run out at the 
warehouses.

have fun!  
chimene --  who is probably not going to be making any HP wizarding robes any 
time soon, so collected this pattern just because.  It also might apply to 
Unseen University robes someday; and LOTS of my son's WoW loot has huge 
shoulder constructions, so, who knows?

On Sep 16, 2011, at 2:24 PM, Patricia Dunham wrote:

 well, that's a relief, actually, because the only thing I could find at 
 simplicity 3076 was some 1930?'s vintage women's slips!  thanks!!
 
 about the 2529 pattern being out of print?  I just called my local Joanne's 
 and indeed, that pattern isn't in the drawer and isn't in the current book, 
 BUT!  it is still on-line and I just ordered a copy on-line, and so far, the 
 order appears to be proceeding normally.  I'm going back to the webpage and 
 take all possible screen-caps of the pattern envelope, but MAYBE I'll get a 
 copy of the pattern.  will let the list know if it turns up.  (they're 
 probably selling out the back-stock quietly, until they're all gone???)
 
 chimene
 
 On Sep 15, 2011, at 5:50 PM, Lynn Downward wrote:
 
 Hi chimene,
 
 I don't quite know how #3076 got involved in the link, but Simplicity 2529
 is indeed the cape with the pointy bits on the shoulder that I wrote about.
 If you hold your cursor over the shoulder area it will zoom in and you can
 see the points. I don't eve know if there is a pattern 3076.
 
 LynnD
 
 On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 2:55 PM, Patricia Dunham 
 chim...@ravensgard.orgwrote:
 
 Hi Lynn,
 
 Unfortunately, the URL below (for pattern 3076) now re-directs to what you
 were probably referring to as the dreadful costume cape, pattern 2529.  Do
 you have any idea where one might find even an image of the real 3076?
 
 thanks in any case,
 chimene
 
 On Sep 14, 2011, at 12:08 PM, Lynn Downward wrote:
 
 I can't address most of your questions - I haven't seen the movie enough
 to
 be able to fast-forward directly to that scene.
 
 However, I maybe can offer a suggestion to the fabulous sleeve caps.
 There
 is a Simplicity pattern for a dreadful costume cape. Unfortunately it's
 out
 of print. It's really close to what you want. But if you could get a copy
 of
 it, I'm sure you could extend the points to the height you wanted. I
 wanted
 to buy it on sale specifically to see how they did the sleeve cap.
 
 http://www.simplicity.com/p-3076-misses-men-teen-costumes.aspx
 
 LynnD
 
 
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Re: [h-cost] Movie Costume Question: McGonagall's Yule Ensemble

[Patricia Dunham]

well, that's a relief, actually, because the only thing I could find at 
simplicity 3076 was some 1930?'s vintage women's slips!  thanks!!

about the 2529 pattern being out of print?  I just called my local Joanne's and 
indeed, that pattern isn't in the drawer and isn't in the current book, BUT!  
it is still on-line and I just ordered a copy on-line, and so far, the order 
appears to be proceeding normally.  I'm going back to the webpage and take all 
possible screen-caps of the pattern envelope, but MAYBE I'll get a copy of the 
pattern.  will let the list know if it turns up.  (they're probably selling out 
the back-stock quietly, until they're all gone???)

chimene

On Sep 15, 2011, at 5:50 PM, Lynn Downward wrote:

 Hi chimene,
 
 I don't quite know how #3076 got involved in the link, but Simplicity 2529
 is indeed the cape with the pointy bits on the shoulder that I wrote about.
 If you hold your cursor over the shoulder area it will zoom in and you can
 see the points. I don't eve know if there is a pattern 3076.
 
 LynnD
 
 On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 2:55 PM, Patricia Dunham 
 chim...@ravensgard.orgwrote:
 
 Hi Lynn,
 
 Unfortunately, the URL below (for pattern 3076) now re-directs to what you
 were probably referring to as the dreadful costume cape, pattern 2529.  Do
 you have any idea where one might find even an image of the real 3076?
 
 thanks in any case,
 chimene
 
 On Sep 14, 2011, at 12:08 PM, Lynn Downward wrote:
 
 I can't address most of your questions - I haven't seen the movie enough
 to
 be able to fast-forward directly to that scene.
 
 However, I maybe can offer a suggestion to the fabulous sleeve caps.
 There
 is a Simplicity pattern for a dreadful costume cape. Unfortunately it's
 out
 of print. It's really close to what you want. But if you could get a copy
 of
 it, I'm sure you could extend the points to the height you wanted. I
 wanted
 to buy it on sale specifically to see how they did the sleeve cap.
 
 http://www.simplicity.com/p-3076-misses-men-teen-costumes.aspx
 
 LynnD
 
 
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Re: [h-cost] Movie Costume Question: McGonagall's Yule Ensemble

[Patricia Dunham]

Hi Lynn, 

Unfortunately, the URL below (for pattern 3076) now re-directs to what you were 
probably referring to as the dreadful costume cape, pattern 2529.  Do you 
have any idea where one might find even an image of the real 3076?

thanks in any case,
chimene

On Sep 14, 2011, at 12:08 PM, Lynn Downward wrote:

 I can't address most of your questions - I haven't seen the movie enough to
 be able to fast-forward directly to that scene.
 
 However, I maybe can offer a suggestion to the fabulous sleeve caps. There
 is a Simplicity pattern for a dreadful costume cape. Unfortunately it's out
 of print. It's really close to what you want. But if you could get a copy of
 it, I'm sure you could extend the points to the height you wanted. I wanted
 to buy it on sale specifically to see how they did the sleeve cap.
 
 http://www.simplicity.com/p-3076-misses-men-teen-costumes.aspx

 LynnD


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Re: [h-cost] Movie Costume Question: McGonagall's Yule Ensemble

[Patricia Dunham]

very interesting the color variation:  the fotki picture looks relatively 
moss-green, while the weheartit picture is very emerald-jewel-tone.  It's the 
same picture with two different color-balances.  I prefer the toned-down color, 
myself.  

ALL the colors are differently balanced:  the weheartit shot has blue-er ice 
background and more brilliant colors in the other costumes, to go along with 
McG's emerald; the fotki version shows more muted colors in costumes and the 
ice is more white-and-silver.

anybody know which color values are closer to the film?

chimene

On Sep 14, 2011, at 7:07 PM, Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote:

 These pictures should help.  I found a site by a costumer who made one for 
 herself, but I can't locate it again!  I'll try later.
 
 http://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Minerva_McGonagall%27s_dress_robes
 
 http://weheartit.com/entry/12025930
 
 No, wait, I did find it; here it is!
 
 http://public.fotki.com/Kait/other_costuming/professor_mcgonagal-1/
 
 Good luck!
 
 
 ailman/listinfo/h-costume
 
 
 -- 
 Cathy Raymond
 ca...@thyrsus.com
 
 Beware how you take away hope from another human being.
 --Oliver Wendell Holmes
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Re: [h-cost] Miss Universe [TOP TEN] 2011 national costumes

[Patricia Dunham]

OK, I taped it and am finally getting to taking a look...  here you go, Penny:

10 Japan
9 Nigeria (red beads  pointy hat!)
8 Bolivia (feather Carnivale)
7 Tanzania (spiky Xena armor)
6 Trinidad  Tobago (all red feather Carnivale)
5 Curacao
4 Venezuela (!)
3 Thailand
2 Mexico (huh?!)
1 Panama (another feather, plus indigenous elements, the giant sphere with 
beige on the outside)

chimene

On Sep 12, 2011, at 10:45 PM, penn...@costumegallery.com 
penn...@costumegallery.com wrote:

 I was so disappointed me that the TV show only showed the top ten costumes.
 I missed it because I was also watching So You Think You Can Dance during
 commercials.  So who wore the top ten costumes?  
 
 Penny Ladnier, owner
 The Costume Gallery Websites
 www.costumegallery.com
 15 websites of fashion, costume, and textile history
 FaceBook:
 http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Costume-Gallery-Websites/107498415961579 
 
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Re: [h-cost] Miss Universe [TOP TEN] 2011 national costumes

[Patricia Dunham]

And Also... found these funny, catty comments:  
http://www.tomandlorenzo.com/2011/09/miss-universe-2011-national-costumes.html

be sure to look at Pt 2 also.


On Sep 13, 2011, at 8:35 PM, Patricia Dunham wrote:

 OK, I taped it and am finally getting to taking a look...  here you go, Penny:
 
 10 Japan
 9 Nigeria (red beads  pointy hat!)
 8 Bolivia (feather Carnivale)
 7 Tanzania (spiky Xena armor)
 6 Trinidad  Tobago (all red feather Carnivale)
 5 Curacao
 4 Venezuela (!)
 3 Thailand
 2 Mexico (huh?!)
 1 Panama (another feather, plus indigenous elements, the giant sphere with 
 beige on the outside)
 
 chimene


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Re: [h-cost] Miss Universe 2011 national costumes

[Patricia Dunham]

thanks, Cin, for a really fun half-hour!!!

let's see...  yes, lots of them look like overblown las vegas showgirls, esp. 
the Carnivale types.  And so many are completely made-up, even for countries 
that used to have national costume!  wow, saw a website with the 2010 national 
costumes -- this year's are MUCH more television-spectacle-friendly

the ones we thought looked like they actually had something to do with the 
culture of the country in question?  LONG and opinionated!  8-)

EUROPE:  Miss Denmark is... Miss Hans Chr. Anderson???, late 1700s/Marie 
Antoinette??? but very cute girl and the ringlets look great.
Miss Estonia appears to include some interesting elements, accurate to 
various periods (like the shoes!)
Miss Greece looks fantastic
Is Miss Hungary supposed to look somehow like the cavalry, and its 
horses??? that headdress???  doesn't look much like my Kate Seredy books!
Miss Ireland... is supposed to be somebody's hallucination of ancient 
Celts poor thing.
the collection of costumes from Eastern Europe  the Stans in 
all-white is interesting: Albania, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Kosovo, Montenegro, 
Poland, Russia, Serbia (Croatia -- urg)
real 19thC national costume style -- Miss Slovak Republic, Kosovo, 
Portugal

AFRICA:  Miss Botswana was a real cutie; anybody know what the 
smashed-bucket-on-the-stick presents?  most of the rest of the Africans were 
pretty fantastical; although actually, I think Miss Nigeria's red bead armor 
and pointy-hat thing look definitely like something real I've seen somewhere

MIDDLE EAST:  Miss Egypt is channeling Elizabeth Taylor; Miss Lebanon's was 
quite pretty and decently covered-up; Miss Turkey certainly looked secular!  
Miss Israel has a pretty face, but the costume just looks like an evening 
gown.

ASIA: Misses China, Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore, Thailand really look great, 
full of real elements!  Miss Japan looked so manga in that photo!  Liked the 
volume of Maori in Miss New Zealand, too!

WESTERN HEMISPHERE:  Miss Canada has a great expression, although an 
interesting mixture of West Coast on the torso, Hudson Bay Blanket on the 
skirt, and Plains Indian (?) headdress
Miss Costa Rica looks historically indigenous, not exactly 
identifiable, but a good pose; most of the others that took indigenous elements 
from Central  South America were too fantastical for our taste.  Miss 
Guatemala's hiking shorts were a good overall look, but feels more eastern 
European than Central American somehow!
completely ridiculous as a national costume, but I liked it:  Miss 
Columbia's Carmen Miranda get-up (black-n-white stripes with big red flowers, 
huge ruffles)
Miss Venezuela's wings(?) were marvelous, is this the only 
non-feather Carnivale design?

MAMA, DON'T LET YOUR BABIES WEAR:  Miss Belgium; Miss Chile (oh! the miners?); 
Miss Czech Republic; Miss El Salvador does not actually look very happy with 
her... velvet ruffles???; Miss France obviously never put on her costume 
before?; WHAT is Miss Great Britain's outfit to represent, anybody have any 
idea?; Miss Ireland; Miss Netherland's ship headdress.  Is Miss Spain supposed 
to have a Flamenco dress?  Miss Tanzania (the gold armor, with spikes)  Miss 
USA-USA-USA -- oh my.

yes, that was fun!
chimene  co.


On Sep 12, 2011, at 12:54 PM, Cin wrote:

 Check out the ridiculous national costumes from this year's Miss
 Universe pagent: http://ohnotheydidnt.livejournal.com/62603630.html
 There are other websites with a small selection of pics, but this LJ
 entry has lots  lots.  Its possible that you'll need an LJ handle to
 see them all.
 
 If you'd rather had just a small set that's not on LJ, here's the
 Telegraph's gallery.
 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picturegalleries/worldnews/8749932/Miss-Universe-2011-national-costumes.html
 --cin
 Cynthia Barnes
 cinbar...@gmail.com
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Re: [h-cost] FOUR DAYS DOWN?

[Patricia Dunham]

yeah, I've been sitting on my hands for days, waiting to see if anything turns 
up!  4 days does seem like a long time.  chimene
On Jul 13, 2011, at 1:04 PM, AVCHASE wrote:

 Hi All! I've not gotten any posts since July 9. Has no one posted? Is the 
 list down? What's up? Audy
 
 in the high boonies of Central Texas
 
 
 PeoplePC Online
 A better way to Internet
 http://www.peoplepc.com
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Re: [h-cost] Archeological find of 15th-century textiles

[Patricia Dunham]

thanks much, Fran.  While I was there (at the url you provided), I noticed many 
other abstracts of great interest, and if you fiddle with the URLs, you can get 
to several quite detailed versions of the schedule (i.e.

http://www.nesat.org/m1/programm.html

and a bit of a casual report from togs-from-bogs 

http://togs-from-bogs.blogspot.com/2011/05/tidings-from-conferences.html

Looks like there were LOTS of fascinating things reported on!

chimene

On Jun 30, 2011, at 12:14 PM, Lavolta Press wrote:

 http://www.nesat.org/abstracts/lecture_nutz.pdf
 
 Fran
 Lavolta Press
 Books on making historic clothing
 www.lavoltapress.com
 www.facebook.com/LavoltaPress
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Re: [h-cost] 1st White Wedding Dress Trend: Anne of Brittany or Queen Victoria

[Patricia Dunham]

hi Penny,

turns out most of what I found on-line is circular, back to an article History 
of Matrimony, from some Italian wedding planner company!!!  Will look more 
tomorrow (Wed) in printed sources.  No help on either Philippa OR Anne!  

Although I did find one reference in Spanish  
http://www.lebrelblanco.com/anexos/a0040.htm  that Anne was the first to use 
black for mourning (previously white = mourning)  hmm. there's politics 
there... modern, Basque vs Navarre; don't know if/how it would affect the 
historical stuff, well, the costume detail stuff...

anyway, will look in my costume library tomorrow and see if I can find anything.

chimene


On May 10, 2011, at 1:35 AM, penn...@costumegallery.com 
penn...@costumegallery.com wrote:

 Chimene,
 
 Do you have a source for that info?
 
 Penny Ladnier, owner
 The Costume Gallery Websites
 www.costumegallery.com
 15 websites of fashion, costume, and textile history
 FaceBook:
 http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Costume-Gallery-Websites/107498415961579 
 
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Re: [h-cost] 1st White Wedding Dress Trend: Anne of Brittany or Queen Victoria

[Patricia Dunham]

Apparently Anne wasn't even first; numerous ref's online to, I think, Princess 
Philippa, daughter of Henry IV (Bolingbroke), 1406

She was married on 26 October 1406 to Eric of Pomerania [Scandinavia, Sweden] 
in Lund Cathedral. Philippa was actually the first documented princess in 
history to wear a white wedding dress during a royal wedding ceremony: she wore 
a tunic with a cloak in white silk bordered with grey squirrel and ermine).

chimene
 
On May 9, 2011, at 10:43 PM, penn...@costumegallery.com wrote:

 My local newspaper ran an article about wedding traditions, 
 
 http://www2.timesdispatch.com/lifestyles/celebrations/2011/may/04/tradition-
 tales-ar-1015954/  Scroll down to The White Wedding Dress.
 
 So who started the trend of the white wedding dress, Anne of Brittany or
 Queen Victoria?  The year 1499 is out of my league of knowledge.  I know all
 about Victoria's wedding dress trend.  
 
 
 
 Penny Ladnier, owner
 
 The Costume Gallery Websites
 
 http://www.costumegallery.com/ www.costumegallery.com
 
 15 websites of fashion, costume, and textile history
 
 FaceBook:
 http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Costume-Gallery-Websites/107498415961579
 http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Costume-Gallery-Websites/107498415961579 
 
 
 
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Re: [h-cost] piping on Civil War era dresses

[Patricia Dunham]

I believe this is you?  at about minute 20:45, 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FUACCHaNgE

very nice.
chimene

On May 3, 2011, at 3:40 PM, Lisa A Ashton wrote:

 Costume Con 29 is over.  And I won major awards with the Civil War era
 dress of Sarah Ballou, in a historical presentation we called The
 Letter.  At some point I may be able to put up video ofi t, but I must
 say that we pretty much had everyone in the audience in tears (even the
 tech crew got weepy at our rehearsal, and that was without the costumes
 on).  I want to thank everyone on the H-costume list for their
 knowledgeable answers to my many questions over the past 12 months, and I
 want to thank all the folks at the Ladies  Gentlemen of the 1860's
 conference in March of 2011 as well, for a conference that really got me
 thinking and was very illuminating.  My reserach that I wrote up as the
 documentation for the costume, will be published later this year in the
 Virtual Costumer: online costume magazine.  I have an article in an
 issue from last year, about re-creating my great-grandmother's first day
 dress from about 1896.  The magazine's older issues are open to the
 public, and the current issue is password-protected for about the first
 month.  
 
 http://www.siwcostumers.org/vc_current-issue.html
 
 There will also be photos of that costume, and my Fantasy and SF
 Masquerade costume Mistress of All Hallows up on Costume Gallery.
 
 Thank you all again, and I really enjoy the discussions.
 
 Yours in costuming, Lisa a
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[h-cost] kate's wedding dress skirt

[Patricia Dunham]

is the part of the dress I'm interested in.  Anybody have any ideas on how the 
pleating at the side of the waist and in back interacts with the welt seaming 
(?) between the skirt panels?  OR any educated guessing on if or when there 
might be a real commercial pattern available for this exact dress, not just 
some knock-off designer's version?

thanks much!
chimene  (who is hard at work compiling a folder of pics to work from, if worst 
comes to worst and I have to figure it out for myself, 8-))
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[h-cost] Henry VIII, embroiderer?

[Patricia Dunham]

Royal School of Needlework, Hampton Court, on CBS Sunday morning today.  Took 
some hunting but I finally found it:

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7363014n

enjoy
chimene
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[h-cost] ping? no posts in 3+ days?

[Patricia Dunham]

this:

From:   Kimiko Small kim...@kimiko1.com
Subject:Re: [h-cost] Hoop storage (was (no subject))
Date:   March 16, 2011 1:28:14 PM PDT

is the most recent post I've received.

Do I have a problem, or have things just gone REAL quiet?

thanks,
chimene
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Re: [h-cost] How to cover your head tutorial? Lost link - help.

[Patricia Dunham]

let's see ... 
*mistress cori on headrails is a short text piece
*there's an East Kingdom class description:  Veils, Headrails  
Turbans, by Lady Brangwayna Morgan, but I haven't yet been able to find any 
more on that one
*this http://www.virtue.to/articles/veils.html is for attaching a 
simple veil, but very nice complete pics

ooh, ooh! is it this one?  
http://www.flickr.com/photos/racaire/sets/72157611477989876/   AND 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/racaire/sets/72157611406367893/   these are what I 
was trying to remember!  BUT... I think this (below) is what was originally 
wanted:

again, ooh, ooh!  THANK YOU ATLANTIA!  This has a vertical layout, AND written 
text to go with the pics, so ...  
http://lynnehurstinvites.com/edyth/notes/veil.html#_self

chimene


On Mar 3, 2011, at 11:34 AM, Ruth Anne Baumgartner wrote:

 Here's a link to the Tudor Tailor slide show http://tinyurl.com/253x2u but 
 it's not fully a tutorial. Various head coverings are shown about 2/3 through 
 the series. I hope it's some help.
 I think I know the tutorial you mean, but I can't seem to find it among my 
 MANY saved messages from this list.
 --Ruth Anne Baumgartner
 gypsy scholar and amateur costumer
 
 On Mar 3, 2011, at 1:05 PM, Lynn Downward wrote:
 
 could it have been the photographs that Kimiko took of the Tudor Tailor
 class 2-3 years ago? i don't have the link but that's what came to mind
 first for me. Good luck.
 LynnD
 
 On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 8:28 AM, Wicked Frau wickedf...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Hi all!  One of you wonderful people out there has a tutorial on how to tie
 fabric on your head, and your use of veils.  It is a vertical series of
 Photos of said authorI can' find the link - I want to share it with a
 class.
 
 Thanks!
 
 Sg
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Re: [h-cost] Robe or train???

[Patricia Dunham]

In our experience, this definition feels closest:  Robes are a long, loose or 
flowing gown or outer garment worn by men or women as ceremonial dress, an 
official vestment, or garb of office.  Robes in the context of your photos, 
and modern Mardi Gras, is sort of a generic term for a complete set of 
ceremonial clothing.

We agree with otsisto's definitions that train refers to any part of a set of 
Robes that trails behind the wearer on the ground.  It may detach, or not.  It 
may depend from the shoulders or the waist.

In our opinion the picture shows ceremonial robes that include trains.

Our frame of reference is considerably older than the 19thC:  as we know it, a 
mantle refers to a specific kind of cloak, which could easily be part of a 
set of ceremonial robes.   

hope this helps,
chimene


On Feb 10, 2011, at 1:58 AM, penn...@costumegallery.com 
penn...@costumegallery.com wrote:

 I feel so silly asking this question.  I am working on photos of coronation
 costume photos for Mardi Gras.  I am looking for the correct term to use for
 the detachable train (?) worn by the king and queen.   You may view the
 questionable piece here:
 
 http://www.costumegallery.com/MardiGras/2010/Mobile/Museum/Queen1/P1100236me
 d.jpg  I have checked my costume dictionaries and the train definition
 seems to fit better than robe.  I have heard it called both ways.  What the
 correct word to use? 
 
 
 
 Penny Ladnier, owner
 
 The Costume Gallery Websites
 
 http://www.costumegallery.com/ www.costumegallery.com
 
 14 websites of fashion, costume, and textile history
 
 FaceBook:
 http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Costume-Gallery-Websites/107498415961579
 http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Costume-Gallery-Websites/107498415961579 
 
 
 
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Re: [h-cost] loot query...

[Patricia Dunham]

umm, Robin?

Just checking on pre-ordering #7 with a coupon we have, and Barnes  Noble is 
(still?) listing $6 as a hardback, and says #7 will be hardback-only...  so 
that's pretty confusing...

Has the publisher changed their mind (that you know of), or is BN just being 
sloppy?

thanks,
chimene

On Dec 26, 2010, at 4:04 PM, Patricia Dunham wrote:

 Thanks for the information.  I think we'll scan the cover and make ourselves 
 a dustjacket.  Our books need the actual extra protection, although we're not 
 collectors or anything.
 
 chimene
 
 
 On Dec 26, 2010, at 12:10 AM, Robin Netherton wrote:
 
 On 12/25/2010 2:00 PM, Patricia Dunham wrote:
 Anybody know?  Did Medieval Clothing and Textiles #6 have an edition that 
 came without a dust jacket, or do we need to yell at the vendor?  Our 
 Christmas copy unexpectedly has a very nicely printed hard cover, but no 
 dust jacket, and 1-5, as we have them, all have DJs.
 
 Our publisher moved to printed hardcovers last year; I think we were one of 
 several series affected by the change. So, no more dust jackets. On the plus 
 side, it means that libraries that routinely discard the dust jackets aren't 
 losing the nice color picture -- typically the only photo we can print in 
 color in a volume.
 
 --Robin
 
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Re: [h-cost] loot query... DUH!

[Patricia Dunham]

sorry, AFTER i posted, i re-read your reply AGAIN a printed hardcover just 
feels like a paperback to us, and that's the sense memory I was working from. 
 

we're just old, I guess, 8-) -- hardcovers are supposed to have jackets!  so 
I guess there's nothing wrong with BN's listings after all... 

sorry to waste folks' bandwidth!
c.

On Jan 31, 2011, at 12:39 PM, Patricia Dunham wrote:

 umm, Robin?
 
 Just checking on pre-ordering #7 with a coupon we have, and Barnes  Noble is 
 (still?) listing $6 as a hardback, and says #7 will be hardback-only...  so 
 that's pretty confusing...
 
 Has the publisher changed their mind (that you know of), or is BN just being 
 sloppy?
 
 thanks,
 chimene
 
 On Dec 26, 2010, at 4:04 PM, Patricia Dunham wrote:
 
 Thanks for the information.  I think we'll scan the cover and make ourselves 
 a dustjacket.  Our books need the actual extra protection, although we're 
 not collectors or anything.
 
 chimene
 
 
 On Dec 26, 2010, at 12:10 AM, Robin Netherton wrote:
 
 On 12/25/2010 2:00 PM, Patricia Dunham wrote:
 Anybody know?  Did Medieval Clothing and Textiles #6 have an edition that 
 came without a dust jacket, or do we need to yell at the vendor?  Our 
 Christmas copy unexpectedly has a very nicely printed hard cover, but no 
 dust jacket, and 1-5, as we have them, all have DJs.
 
 Our publisher moved to printed hardcovers last year; I think we were one of 
 several series affected by the change. So, no more dust jackets. On the 
 plus side, it means that libraries that routinely discard the dust jackets 
 aren't losing the nice color picture -- typically the only photo we can 
 print in color in a volume.
 
 --Robin
 
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Re: [h-cost] Historical figures

[Patricia Dunham]

Umm, I did go and read the website.  They are not THAT small, he does them 
one-quarter scale.  So the average figure would be about 15-18 inches tall.  
(60=5 feet, 72=6 feet).  I think Barbie is about 12 inches tall???

There certainly are some amazing things there, but not everything is perfect.  
For example, my dear husband about had an apoplexy at his Eric the Red, and 
his coronation Elizabeth II looks really, really, REALLY blonde, which she 
doesn't in easily-Google-able color photos...  So... where's the salt cellar?

chimene

On Jan 16, 2011, at 12:05 PM, Emily Gilbert wrote:

 /Wow /How does he do all the elaborate detail in the clothing at such a 
 small size?  I may have to go to California just to see those in person!
 
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Re: [h-cost] Thank you and 1940s Halo Hat Question

[Patricia Dunham]

seems to cover a lot of ground, see the following:

http://www.etsy.com/listing/60844056/vintage-1940s-schoolgirl-wide-brim-two
http://www.millistarr.com/hats/40beret.xhtml
http://www.rubylane.com/item/460150-1270/1940s-Vintage-Halo-Hat-x2aRoses
http://www.tias.com/973/PictPage/3923253103.html

the 2d  4th look most likely, to my eye (I do NOT study hats, and have never 
heard this term before either, 8-))

the google search halo+hat style 1940's history will bring a number of pages, 
many of which appear to be repeating the same small amount of information...

have fun!
chimene


On Jan 11, 2011, at 4:20 PM, Lynn Downward wrote:

 Can you show us what you're talking about? I study hats and don't recognize
 the term.
 LynnD
 
 

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Re: [h-cost] eek, quick opinion pls...

[Patricia Dunham]

Belated thanks for this recommendation.  We do have a fair amount of drafting 
experience, so that would be OK.  chimene

On Dec 17, 2010, at 9:25 AM, Chris Bertani wrote:

 I recommend Men's Garments 1830-1900: A Guide to Pattern Cutting and
 Tailoring, by RI Davis (book)
 
 You follow the directions to draft a pattern to the exact measurements
 you need.  I've used this for a number of garments, and they generally
 come out looking very good.
 
 However, you will have to draft patterns for linings, facings,
 undercollars, etc. yourself.
 
 Regards,
 
 -- Chris Bertani
 www.goblinrevolution.org/costumes
 
 
 
 
 On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 14:56, Patricia Dunham chim...@ravensgard.org wrote:
 Don't know if I actually have time to still get this by Xmas, BUT!  Himself 
 re-iterated interest in a Steampunk/Victorian outfit again last night, so...
 
 Anybody know anything about any of these particular patterns or vendors...
 
 
 Laughing Moon #109, men's frock coats  vest
 
 Folkwear #222, set of vests
 
 Men's Garments 1830-1900: A Guide to Pattern Cutting and Tailoring, by RI 
 Davis (book)
 
 Old West Men's Clothing Patterns, by Wingeo, Pattern #W324 (frock coat), 
 #W325 (Dress Coat)
 
 
 We have good basic sewing skills, some theatrical costuming experience, but 
 no tailoring...
 
 Greatly appreciated, any responses today, Thursday...
 
 Chimene
 
 
 
 
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Re: [h-cost] loot query...

[Patricia Dunham]

Thanks for the information.  I think we'll scan the cover and make ourselves a 
dustjacket.  Our books need the actual extra protection, although we're not 
collectors or anything.

chimene


On Dec 26, 2010, at 12:10 AM, Robin Netherton wrote:

 On 12/25/2010 2:00 PM, Patricia Dunham wrote:
 Anybody know?  Did Medieval Clothing and Textiles #6 have an edition that 
 came without a dust jacket, or do we need to yell at the vendor?  Our 
 Christmas copy unexpectedly has a very nicely printed hard cover, but no 
 dust jacket, and 1-5, as we have them, all have DJs.
 
 Our publisher moved to printed hardcovers last year; I think we were one of 
 several series affected by the change. So, no more dust jackets. On the plus 
 side, it means that libraries that routinely discard the dust jackets aren't 
 losing the nice color picture -- typically the only photo we can print in 
 color in a volume.
 
 --Robin

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[h-cost] loot query...

[Patricia Dunham]

Anybody know?  Did Medieval Clothing and Textiles #6 have an edition that came 
without a dust jacket, or do we need to yell at the vendor?  Our Christmas copy 
unexpectedly has a very nicely printed hard cover, but no dust jacket, and 1-5, 
as we have them, all have DJs.

thanks!
chimene

ps, my other big costume thing is Stella Mary Newton's Health, Art  Reason!!!  
(a former library copy)  wahoo
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Re: [h-cost] What costume-related holiday gifts did you get?

[Patricia Dunham]

Well, the aforementioned Med Clothing  Textiles #6.  

Stella Mary Newton's Health, Art  Reason! (to feed my Reform Dress jones!)  

And there's SUPPOSED to be a frock coat pattern on the way.  That one serves me 
right for dithering so long, but both of us had multiple items not arrive in 
time for today.  Thank you all very much, all the folks who responded to eek, 
quick opinion please!!!

Numerous other books and LOTS of chocolates, 8-)!  dk choc hazelnuts from here 
in Oregon; Meiji chocolate almonds (); dk choc almonds from 
I-don't-know-where, buy them at Capella bulk section; Chocolove cherry-and-dk 
and raspberry-and-dk bars (which I haven't tried before, though their
 almond-and-sea-salt dark bar is divine!)  and the mini-pack of all-dark 
Ferro-Roche (hazelnut)...

chimene


On Dec 25, 2010, at 1:19 PM, Lavolta Press wrote:

 My husband gave me three costume books:
 
 How the Watch Was Worn: A Fashion for 500 Years, by Genevieve Cummins
 
 Accessories to Modernity: Fashion and the Feminine in 19th-Century France, by 
 Susan Hiner
 
 The Cut of His Coat: Men, Dress, and Consumer Culture in Britain 1860-1914, 
 by Brent Shannon
 
 A fancy walnut hand mirror
 
 Also some non-costume books and some chocolate truffles.
 
 Fran
 Lavolta Press
 Books on making historic clothing
 www.lavoltapress.com
 
 
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[h-cost] eek, quick opinion pls...

[Patricia Dunham]

Don't know if I actually have time to still get this by Xmas, BUT!  Himself 
re-iterated interest in a Steampunk/Victorian outfit again last night, so...

Anybody know anything about any of these particular patterns or vendors... 


Laughing Moon #109, men's frock coats  vest

Folkwear #222, set of vests

Men's Garments 1830-1900: A Guide to Pattern Cutting and Tailoring, by RI Davis 
(book)

Old West Men's Clothing Patterns, by Wingeo, Pattern #W324 (frock coat), #W325 
(Dress Coat)


We have good basic sewing skills, some theatrical costuming experience, but no 
tailoring...

Greatly appreciated, any responses today, Thursday... 

Chimene




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[h-cost] 50's handwork transfers crochet patterns

[Patricia Dunham]

Anybody interested in embroidery transfers (Woman's Day magazine inserts, Gerek 
recognized them, his mom got them too)  crochet patterns (all Alice Brooks) 
from the 50's  early 60's?  Almost none of it is dated, but he used the 
transfers to teach himself embroidery when he was around 7 or 8 (HIS idea!), so 
that would definitely be early 60's.   

Sets of theme transfers for tea towels (7 days a week), designs for 
pillowcases, lots of floral and ribbon alphabets, LOTS of misc. bits, very few 
complete sheets (she used them!)  I grew up with her handwork, floral 
embroideries and crochet edgings on pillowcases, mostly, from this sort of 
pattern.  All the baby layette stuff she made for us also had decorative 
embroidery, too.  She did mostly textile crafts for years and years, I have a 
lot of stuff, she even did large tablecloths (but don't have any of those 
patterns in this stuff).

Also a handful of the Kansas City The Work Basket, home and needlecraft for 
Pleasure and Profit publications, let's see, volume II (don't know if that's 2 
or eleven), May-Sept  Nov, don't know the year.  Oh, published by Modern 
Handcraft, Kansas City MO.  They have instructions for about 4 projects per 
issue.  Including one for knitting your own soakers!!!  

Anyway, anybody interested in post-war, baby-boom stay-at-home Mom 
needle-crafty-ness, let me know.  Or not.  I've sorted what I want and there's 
8.5x11 by about a fluffy inch deep left. Would rather see them go to someone 
interested than into the fireplace.

Patsy/Chimene
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Re: [h-cost] Costume-related calendars

[Patricia Dunham]

wow, the Lithuanian is GREAT!  I poked around on-line a little and found these, 
among others... mostly 19thC.  oh well.  enjoy.  

chimene


Erte at:  http://www.amazon.com/Erte-Glittered-Wall-Calendar-2011/dp/B0040YSI9C

Costume Society of Ontario:  http://costumesociety.ca/wordpress/

Lacis lists a Handbags Page-a-Day calendar, at: 
http://costumesociety.ca/wordpress/

Also at Lacis, Shoes Page-a-Day and Shoes Wall calendar

Smithsonian's Costumes Parisiens is making a splash, see also down this page: 
http://www.calendars.com/Zebra-Publishing/Costumes-Parisiens-2011-Wall-Calendar/prod20111440/?categoryId=cat00016

Metropolitan Shoes may be different from Lacis, I don't know...  
http://www.amazon.com/Shoes-Metropolitan-Museum-2011-Calendar/dp/B003VIDED8 -- 
be sure to check for the you may also likes on this page

There's a Vogue at 
http://www.amazon.com/Vogue-2011-Wall-Calendar-Magazine/dp/0789321831  with a 
BUNCH more in the you may also likes (little black dress, Glamour, etc etc) 
(Vogue Paris is different, more skin than historic costume),

 a Gibson Girl AND Edwardian era: http://www.zazzle.com/gibson+girl+calendars, 

Also Gibson-ish, Elegance and Beauty:  \!  
http://www.tycalendars.com/index.php?case=productproddb=2pid=6955

Hungarian folk costume doll calendar here:  
http://shop.folkology.com/collections/calendars

This looks pretty 18/19thC folk costume movement, Scandinavian:  
http://www.zazzle.com/scandinavian_folk_art_2011_wall_calendar_poster-228497969079831375

Fine Art, Old Masters -- http://www.easysurf.cc/master.htm

this year's (Urk!) Camelot here: http://www.lotsofcalendars.com/25167.asp

This year's Waterhouse (pre-Raph.) also at the camelot page



On Nov 27, 2010, at 4:25 PM, Lavolta Press wrote:

 What costume-related calendars is everyone buying for 2011?
 
 Fran
 Lavolta Press
 Two new books of 1880s patterns!
 www.lavoltapress.com
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Re: [h-cost] Hill Bucknell Cloaks - sorry for cross-post, but...

[Patricia Dunham]

well, a wool lining won't exactly keep you DRYER in the rain, but you won't 
freeze when it does soak through!  Wool's insulating qualities are not affected 
by wetness, and it does take longer to soak through wool than many other 
fabrics, so two layers would extend the time you have until the rain gets all 
the way through to you.

chimene from Oregon in the Pacific NorthWET, as we call it!  8-)

On Nov 11, 2010, at 6:52 PM, Laurie Taylor wrote:

 Thanks for the thought Glenda.  I'm not likely to see snow
 anytimeever...but rain is a possibility and staying dry is really nice!
 I may have to try that on another one.


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Re: [h-cost] Sherlock

[Patricia Dunham]

not due to be on until Sunday night, the 24th, here in Oregon, the first one... 
Study in Pink.  It's been set up in the recorder for several days now!  We 
enjoyed the Downey/Law movie of last year, a lot; otherwise Jeremy Brett is our 
fav'  (right, except for the Private Life of SH movie, 1970, which is 
all-time favorite of my husband's)

chimene  

On Oct 22, 2010, at 10:04 PM, Lavolta Press wrote:

 Has anyone seen it, and how does it come across to fans of the original books 
 and the various movies set in the Victorian and Edwardian eras? I've only 
 seen a newspaper review.
 
 I've always thought that if Holmes were alive today, he'd be a computer geek, 
 probably developing viruses and cracking passwords just to see if he could, 
 but never releasing the viruses or using the hacked material for anything 
 evil. I think it was a neat touch that in the original version, Watson was a 
 veteran of an Afghanistan campaign--and in the updated version, he still is.
 
 On the other hand, I'm not sure I would like seeing a modernized version . . .
 
 Fran
 Lavolta Press
 Two new books of 1880s clothing patterns!
 www.lavoltapress.com
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Re: [h-cost] Opinions on Manesse Codex diagonal stripes

[Patricia Dunham]

umm, the link to an image didn't come across?? 

chimene

On Oct 20, 2010, at 9:47 PM, Heather Rose Jones wrote:

 With the caveats that artistic representations aren't always intended to 
 represent actual clothing construction, and that representations of clothing 
 decoration are sometimes intended to convey symbolism rather than fabric 
 structures, and that there are multiple ways to create any particular 
 decorative effect in fabric ...
 
 What are people's thoughts on the garments depicted in the early 14th c. 
 Manesse Codex that have diagonal striped designs?  Woven as diagonal stripes? 
  Print?  Woven as straight-grain stripes and cut on the bias?  Symbolic 
 interpretation of armorial designs not intending to represent actual 
 garments?  Some other option?
 
 How is a given hypothesis affected by other stripe-like designs in the 
 manuscript?  (Primarily horizontal stripes, but also chevron designs.)
 
 Here's a link to an image showing a variety of these designs, just for 
 reference.
 
 I'm contemplating the plausibility of the bias cut hypothesis, but I'm 
 failing to convince myself, given that the reasoning that would support it 
 would also conclude that the diagonal-stripe and horizontal-stripe garments 
 in the manuscript represent two entirely different ways of cutting garments 
 that are otherwise identical in depiction.
 
 Heather
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Re: [h-cost] Name of horned 14th century headdress?

[Patricia Dunham]

It could be a form of minotaur?  See the last illustration on this page:  
http://www.mainlesson.com/display.php?author=abbottbook=richard2story=anne

Extremely Victorian drawing style!  and apparently from a Victorian era 
children's history book. A couple really look like bull's horns, and my 
subconscious eventually popped the minotaur connection!

That's all I've been able to come up with so far. 

Oh, the book appears to be:  Mistress of the monarchy : the life of Katherine 
Swynford, Duchess of Lancaster / Alison Weir.   My Public Library's copy is 
out, or I'd look it up in the text...

Chimene


On Aug 27, 2010, at 3:27 PM, Wicked Frau wrote:

 I am listening to Alison Weir's biography of Katherine Sywnford. She
 mentions that Anne of Bohemia (future wife of Richard II) introduced the
 horned headdress to England at the time.  I don't have the actual book but
 the word sounds like moonatire???  Anyone know what the word is?
 
 Thanks,
 
 Saragrace
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Re: [h-cost] Antiques Roadshow

[Patricia Dunham]

I agree, the Diana stuff is probably your highest probability.  I'd vote for 
the 1814 book next, myself.  Have fun!!!

chimene

On Aug 18, 2010, at 11:12 PM, penny1a wrote:

 We are going to Antiques Roadshow Saturday in DC.  We have 9 am tickets.  I
 am so excited. We can bring four items. Is anyone from the list going? 
 
 I am bringing my collection of 23 original fashion plates of French plays
 from the late 1890s-1903.  Some are Sarah Bernhardt plays.  The
 illustrations show the costume changes per character with five to six
 costumes per fashion plate.  These once belonged to the illustrator or
 editor.  A while back, we discussed these plates on h-costume.  I was having
 a problem scanning them because they are so large.  I now own a scanner with
 a large enough bed to scan the plates.  Hopefully, I will getting them
 online in the autumn.
 
 I am also bringing some hand-tinted stereoviews from the first stereoview
 London publisher.  The photos are of weddings.  A photo historian told me
 that these are the earliest known hand-tinted stereoviews that they have
 seen by this photographer.  I am excited to see if this is true. 
 
 We are bringing an antique inlaid game table that I gave my husband for his
 birthday.  It has a chess table and a roulette wheel.  It is beautiful!  We
 really don't care about the value, we just want to know how old it is.
 
 I am trying to decide what our 4th item will be.  Maybe you all can help me
 decide.  I need to know the following items value for insurance purposes.
 So let me know what you think that I should bring:
 1. Hand-beaded traditional Philippians dress (we discussed this dress on
 h-costume)
 2. An 1814 book titled Picturesque Representations of The Dress and Manners
 of the English.  It is a rare book and has full page hand-tinted
 illustrations of the occupations with a corresponding page with the
 occupation description.  You can see thumbnails of this book at:
 http://www.costumegallery.com/1814/British_Occupations/Laborers/  This is
 just the laborers section online.  I own the entire book and haven't put all
 of them online yet.
 3. My Princess Diana auction dress books and photos.  The books are
 autographed by fashion designer David Emanuel (Di's wedding dress) and some
 of the current dress owners.  They autographed the books when I worked on
 the dresses  For newbies to h-costume, I have worked with David and seven of
 the charity dresses. I don't know if these would really be classified as an
 antique.
 4. Delineator magazine collection spanning from 1880-1930.
 5. A 1900s template ad book that was used by the fashion advertising
 industry for fashion ads in magazines and newspapers.  The ads in fashion
 magazines were originally templates and the publisher would insert the
 business info into the templates for publication.
 
 Let me know what you think my 4th item should be. We are leaving for DC
 Friday night.
 
 Penny Ladnier
 Owner, The Costume Gallery Websites
 http://www.costumegallery.com/ www.costumegallery.com
 14 websites of fashion, textiles,  costume history
 
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Re: [h-cost] FW: [Alderfolk] Fashion Crisis!

[Patricia Dunham]

I just looked up his webpage... http://www.tomtierney.com/index.htm  He's in 
his 80's by now, majority of his career he was a fashion artist for various 
large east coast department stores (in the 50s-70s).  The paper doll books were 
a late development.  

There's nothing in his bio that indicates any experience with academia, 
archaeology, costume history, history or even theatrical costume design.

A quick scan of the covers of his works (which are voluminous!) -- very 
colorful, highly decorated, make Iris Brooke look like a paragon of research!  
He gets some of the silhouettes and main lines right, but the colors and 
patterns he fills in with are dizzying.  

chimene

On Aug 19, 2010, at 11:45 AM, Alexandria Doyle wrote:

 I think the same for the Elizabethan, Italian Renn and the medieval
 periods that I've seen.  I have a couple just because, but I wouldn't
 even use them for the let's get you in the general area and then look
 for better examples type of search.  They seem rather outlandish in
 most cases...
 
 alex
 who would only use these for halloween costumes when historical
 accuracy is no where in the picture
 So much to do and so little attention span to get it done with…
 
 
 
 On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 1:33 PM,  aqua...@patriot.net wrote:
 
 Maybe the Victorian is ok, but the 18thC is bad. Take Tom Tierney with a
 huge bag of salt — if you think he did actual research for the period in
 question, track down the sources. The more you rely on someone else's
 creative efforts, the farther you get from the facts.
 
 
 I'm not SCA, don't know anything about Irish Celts in the 6C except
 that they were there.
 
 Having said that, Tom Tierney's colors should be in a little girls
 bedroom, all pastels, even when pastels are not the appropriate color.
 From my research, his designs come from other research books or
 original information (i.e., Godey's Ladies Magazine for Victorian
 dresses) and aren't too bad. I just can't abide his color schemes.
 
 
 
 OK my SCAdian family...I have a book by Tom Tierney on Celtic Fashions.
 What I would like to know is how reputable is this source? What I am
 looking for is Irish Celt in the 6th Century. I really like the style
 on the cover but the illustration states Frankish Celts, ca 450 B.C.
 PeaceDub Essa/Cliodhna


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[h-cost] ping please?

[Patricia Dunham]

I'm wondering if I've gotten knocked of the list somehow???  Or is it just 
Pennsic time?  The last post I can track down is ICG Archives from Aug 5 
(Thurs).
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Re: [h-cost] ping please?

[Patricia Dunham]

thanks much all!  (from the foot of the Valley of Death -- no, really, that's 
what the Indians called the Willamette Valley, pre-whites, because of the grass 
pollen!  or maybe not)

On Aug 9, 2010, at 10:54 AM, Betsy Marshall wrote:

 DFW (home of Il Papa Gunthar (currently on sabbatical to the shrine of all
 things Disney...)
 
 -Original Message-
 From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
 Behalf Of D Knowles
 Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 9:01 AM
 To: h-cost...@indra.com
 Subject: Re: [h-cost] ping please?
 
 
 High Desert of California's Central Valley
 
 
 
 
 
 
 From: chim...@ravensgard.org
 Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 01:15:27 -0700
 To: h-costume@mail.indra.com
 Subject: [h-cost] ping please?
 
 I'm wondering if I've gotten knocked of the list somehow???  Or is it just
 Pennsic time?  The last post I can track down is ICG Archives from Aug 5
 (Thurs).
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Re: [h-cost] pseudo historic costume

[Patricia Dunham]

umm, as a former 4-H-er from back when rocks were soft ... it MIGHT 
be possible that the green horse barding was judged higher for 
reasons such as:


MAYBE the young lady in pink did her own machine sewing?  MAYBE the 
two-part green body draping was more complicated?  MAYBE the 
full-head fabric covering was a more complicated piece?  MAYBE the 
respective horse's behavior, relative to the situation, was a factor? 
(maybe pink dress's horse put up well with a LOT more weirdness???)


The Knight's outfit is pretty spectacular, though, 8-)

chimene

I agree with Nancy; you were robbed!  You gals did a great job. 
Tell your daughter she gets my vote, hands down!


Happy sewing,
  Deb Salisbury
  The Mantua-Maker
  Designer and creator of quality historical sewing patterns, 
Renaissance to Victorian

  Now available:
 Elephant's Breath and London Smoke: Historical Colors, 
Names, Definitions  Uses

  www.mantua-maker.com
  http://mantua-maker-patterns.blogspot.com

the only costume sewing I've done this year is for my daughter's 4H costume.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/21642...@n06/4833605329/

She fit the costume and made the armor and accessories and cut out all the
silver fabric applique. I had to iron it on because she melted the first
one, and I sewed the seams just to save needles and/or a trip to the repair
shop. (she's a rather careless seamstress)

Sadly (for us), the girl behind her won the class

Denise B
Iowa
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Re: [h-cost] OT to Victorian re-enactors

[Patricia Dunham]

Hi Jill

oh my gosh!  my husband remembers his grandmother's seed cake too 
(in BC, before he was about 10), and we've never been able to find a 
recipe for one like he remembers (small seeds and no liquorice 
tasting ones, he can't abide liquorice). most we've found include 
anise, fennel or caraway(?), which all make liquorice tastes.   do 
you have YOUR seed cake recipe?


chimene

My Great Grandmother used to bake a wonderful seed cake. - never had 
one as good since.

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