[hackers] Looking for Something more to do?
I put up a few new wiki task / pages. I also "volunteered" some people for them who I believe said they were interested in helping out. Here they are. Writing Installation Scripts http://www.hack4dean.org/phpwiki/index.php?InstallationScripting Writing Documentation for Admin / Install http://www.hack4dean.org/phpwiki/index.php?Documentation * Lynn Siprelle * [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Shannon Little * [EMAIL PROTECTED] Testing Developed Tools for Usability http://www.hack4dean.org/phpwiki/index.php?UsabilityTesting * Richard Soderberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] If you want to take part in these tasts then go sign yourself up on the pages. -Zack
[hackers] sidebar.module
Design Doc: http://www.hack4dean.org/phpwiki/index.php?sidebar This module will enable admins to create sidebars such as those on the right side of DFA's website and share elements using RSS. Zephyr: I would like to see at least three RSS 2.0 feeds from DFA: -hot items which admins will be encouraged to automatically show (bats) -everything else which site admins can pick and choose from, new items might not auto show -DeanTeam thermometer for a single team member -and maybe some feeds with other styles or targeted subsets I will see how big of a dent in the coding I can make tonight and will post to CVS. -Neil -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] aim: ndrumm3 http://www.ews.uiuc.edu/~ndrumm
[hackers] Event 0.3.2 released
Fixed a couple annoying things: for events to be in the upcoming events block or feed they had to be promoted and searching events by day searched in the server's timezone, not yours. If you happen to be upgrading only event.module changed. This should be the last release before 0.4 which will have an online RSVP option which means nondestructive database changes. -Neil -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] aim: ndrumm3 http://www.ews.uiuc.edu/~ndrumm
[hackers] Sunday IRC Meeting Notes / Transcript...
The transcript / outline of this past Sunday's IRC meeting are up on the wiki: Transcript: http://www.hack4dean.org/txt/chat7.txt Outline: http://www.hack4dean.org/phpwiki/index.php?SeventhIrcMeeting Topic List for Sunday, July 27th IRC Meeting Zack / DFA stuff Where are we on MetaDean ? Where are we on Talent DB ? Drupal Modules RSS schema stuff Event's module and Schema Media Module and Schema Malinglists / Forum (subcription) Drupal themes and the footer DeanSpace changeover where to point the domains for now? -Zack
[hackers] deanspace domain
I don't have a preference for .net or .org, but we have to pick one as the primary domain for people to cite. I've detected some preference for .org among others, though, so i'm going to assume we're going with that unless there is violent objection. My plan is to issue HTTP redirects from all of www.deanspace.net/(.*) web.deanspace.net/(.*) deanspace.net/(.*) www.deanspace.org/(.*) web.deanspace.org/(.*) to just deanspace.org/$1. I hope this is an acceptable plan. Good news: i have just received a reply from the owner of deanspace.com. He is willing to add a link to us from his site's front page. -- ?!ng
[hackers] DeanSpace Goals
Think it would be possible if... * By Wednesday at the meeting we have found a host for DeanSpace * By Friday we are completely moved into the new site? * By the following Monday we are ready for the onslaught? Who is willing to help make this possible? http://www.hack4dean.org/phpwiki/index.php?DeanSpace -Zack
Re: [hackers] PHP hosting recommendations for DeanSpace?
Dreamhost also allows multiple (unlimited, actually) MySQL databases and you can configure your own database subdomains for administration through PHPMyAdmin (e.g. drupal.deanspace.com). You can have unlimited databases up to your account space, but they do track something called "conueries," which as near as I can tell is a mix of connections and queries. The cheapest account is 9.95/mo and comes with 5 million of these, to give you an idea. No, I don't work for Dreamhost or get commissions, I'm just honestly impressed with them. Matt On Monday, July 28, 2003, at 09:32 PM, Neil Drumm wrote: Multiple MySQL DBs would be rather nice. We could easily run multiple insances of Drupal then (our site, sample site, development site, sandboxes for developers). Also what will be the file access scheme? Will multiple developers be able to change files they control around like they can on the SourceForge sandbox? -Neil -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] aim: ndrumm3 http://www.ews.uiuc.edu/~ndrumm On Mon, 28 Jul 2003, John P. Hoke wrote: I currently use PSekHosting.com and they are great ... I have a 20g transfer plan for like 179/year and up 20 domains (with unlimited subdomains and 20 mySQL dbs, etc) -John John P. Hoke [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://john.hoke.org My gpg public key is available at http://www.hoke.org/pubkey.php -- Random thoughts... In my wanderings I have run across magic many times -- which simply says that I have seen wonders I could not explain. --Lazurus Long, Time Enough For Love - Howard Dean for President 2004! http://www.deanforamerica.com On Mon, 2003-07-28 at 19:02, CMR wrote: We're ready to move on this but wanted to get everyone's input on a good php/mysql-friendly hosting outfit; we're looking at either http://www.neureal.com or http://www.ixwebhosting.com/ currently; similar deals; we figure 20 gigs transfer a mon will be plenty; good price/features/reliability/support ratio is the dream Thanks CMR <--enter gratuitous quotation that implies my profundity here-->
Re: [hackers] PHP hosting recommendations for DeanSpace?
Neil, from their end I do not think it would be a problem... I currently am the only one with login to my filesystem but I am sure somethign could be worked out with them ... they do 'bend over backwards' alot for their customers :) John P. Hoke [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://john.hoke.org My gpg public key is available at http://www.hoke.org/pubkey.php -- Random thoughts... We don't shoot cops if there is any way to avoid it. Safer to kiss a rattlesnake. --Lazurus Long, Time Enough For Love - Howard Dean for President 2004! http://www.deanforamerica.com On Mon, 2003-07-28 at 22:32, Neil Drumm wrote: > Multiple MySQL DBs would be rather nice. We could easily run multiple insances of > Drupal then (our site, sample site, development site, sandboxes for developers). > > Also what will be the file access scheme? Will multiple developers be able to change > files they control around like they can on the SourceForge sandbox? > > -Neil > > -- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > aim: ndrumm3 > http://www.ews.uiuc.edu/~ndrumm > > On Mon, 28 Jul 2003, John P. Hoke wrote: > > > I currently use PSekHosting.com and they are great ... I have a 20g > > transfer plan for like 179/year and up 20 domains (with unlimited > > subdomains and 20 mySQL dbs, etc) > > signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [hackers] PHP hosting recommendations for DeanSpace?
Multiple MySQL DBs would be rather nice. We could easily run multiple insances of Drupal then (our site, sample site, development site, sandboxes for developers). Also what will be the file access scheme? Will multiple developers be able to change files they control around like they can on the SourceForge sandbox? -Neil -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] aim: ndrumm3 http://www.ews.uiuc.edu/~ndrumm On Mon, 28 Jul 2003, John P. Hoke wrote: > I currently use PSekHosting.com and they are great ... I have a 20g > transfer plan for like 179/year and up 20 domains (with unlimited > subdomains and 20 mySQL dbs, etc) > > -John > > > John P. Hoke > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://john.hoke.org > > My gpg public key is available at http://www.hoke.org/pubkey.php > -- > > Random thoughts... > In my wanderings I have run across magic many times -- > which simply says that I have seen wonders I could not explain. > --Lazurus Long, Time Enough For Love > - > Howard Dean for President 2004! > http://www.deanforamerica.com > > > > On Mon, 2003-07-28 at 19:02, CMR wrote: > > We're ready to move on this but wanted to get everyone's input on a > > good php/mysql-friendly hosting outfit; we're looking at > > either http://www.neureal.com or > > http://www.ixwebhosting.com/ currently; similar deals; we figure 20 > > gigs transfer a mon will be plenty; good > > price/features/reliability/support ratio is the dream > > > > Thanks > > CMR > > > > <--enter gratuitous quotation that implies my profundity here--> >
RE: [hackers] Fwd: User account details for joshk at Indiana for Dean
And Ryze... Who else is on Ryze? I'm ahynes1 there. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Joshua Koenig Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2003 7:02 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [hackers] Fwd: User account details for joshk at Indiana for Dean >> We then want to implement a "mothership" node which can track all the >> multivariate RSS feeds which are produced and be a go-to source for >> people looking for information on Dean, or who want to get a birds-eye >> view of what's going on in the Dean online universe. Think Technorati, >> but specifically tailored for the Dean web. We also want to implement >> (in close coordination with the campaign) a centralized site to >> organize active volunteers in a social network ala Friendster or Ryze.
Re: [hackers] PHP hosting recommendations for DeanSpace?
I currently use PSekHosting.com and they are great ... I have a 20g transfer plan for like 179/year and up 20 domains (with unlimited subdomains and 20 mySQL dbs, etc) -John John P. Hoke [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://john.hoke.org My gpg public key is available at http://www.hoke.org/pubkey.php -- Random thoughts... In my wanderings I have run across magic many times -- which simply says that I have seen wonders I could not explain. --Lazurus Long, Time Enough For Love - Howard Dean for President 2004! http://www.deanforamerica.com On Mon, 2003-07-28 at 19:02, CMR wrote: > We're ready to move on this but wanted to get everyone's input on a > good php/mysql-friendly hosting outfit; we're looking at > either http://www.neureal.com or > http://www.ixwebhosting.com/ currently; similar deals; we figure 20 > gigs transfer a mon will be plenty; good > price/features/reliability/support ratio is the dream > > Thanks > CMR > > <--enter gratuitous quotation that implies my profundity here--> signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
RE: [hackers] RE: More on Deanster Participant Content
> On Mon, Jul 28, 2003 at 02:41:44PM -0500, Jon Lebkowsky wrote: > > One other point about Deanster: you might get some flak from > Friendster if > > you combine that concept with that name. The Friendster guys aren't > > necessarily Dean supporters. Zephyr, you might discuss with > legal whether > > there's any exposure - obviously it's a great name but a legal > hassle would > > make it counterproductive, I'm afraid. > > Do you really think so, Jon, inasmuch as they're *both* (fairly > explicitly) > derivative of "Napster", which in itself didn't really mean anything? Napster was in no position to file suit! :) >From what I know of Friendster, their reaction would be hard to predict, but from a biz perspective they might like the idea. We should just ask if we're going to use the name... Zephyr says probably not, so moot point, I guess. ~ Jonster
RE: [hackers] A current endorse dean page...
Friendster?!?! Anyone else on Friendster? I am Aldon Hynes ([EMAIL PROTECTED]). Any supporter of the Governor is a friend of mine. I think Friendster is very significant in the development of community online. We need to be out in all the online communities building our frinedships and getting more people involved in the campaign. Personally, I think if we want to really do something cool with the MetaDean Talent DB, we want to be looking at where FOAF (Friend Of A Friend, http://www.foaf-project.org/) fits in. Is anyone working on, or interested in working on FOAF for Drupal? Aldon -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Zephyr Teachout Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 2:21 PM To: 'Neil Drumm'; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [hackers] A current endorse dean page... The talent db is misnamed, really -- it has a talent db function, but the real trick is in the display, ALA friendster, and the social community building. Its not about the info coming in (really easy) -- more about the way of showing it that induces connections (find a neighbor for dean). Z Zephyr Teachout Internet Organizing & Outreach Dean for America [EMAIL PROTECTED] Meetup at http://www.deanforamerica.com/meetup Get local at http://action.deanforamerica.com Contribute at http://www.deanforamerica.com/contribute -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Neil Drumm Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 1:14 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [hackers] A current endorse dean page... >From what I know about endorse it is a form you fill out and spam all your friends with some premade Dean messages. That link looks like something to gather names (which we can also do, where do we put them?). The deanvolunteers page is closer to the talent database. How is that part going? We won't be duplicating or conflicting with the DeanVolunteers effort if we make that will we? -Neil Original message >Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 13:03:42 -0400 >From: Shannon Little <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: [hackers] A current endorse dean page... >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Here is the link: > >http://www.deanvolunteers.org/DeanVolunteers/top_ten.asp#7 >
Re: [hackers] PHP hosting recommendations for DeanSpace?
Speaking solely from personal experience, I've had EXTREMELY good luck with Dreamhost (http://www.dreamhost.com). Great features for the price, and I got an extremely speedy response the one time I had to call customer service. They also have a fantastic control panel that lets you mess with a whole lot of stuff quite easily. Matt On Monday, July 28, 2003, at 06:02 PM, CMR wrote: We're ready to move on this but wanted to get everyone's input on a good php/mysql-friendly hosting outfit; we're looking at either http://www.neureal.com or http://www.ixwebhosting.com/ currently; similar deals; we figure 20 gigs transfer a mon will be plenty; good price/features/reliability/support ratio is the dream Thanks CMR <--enter gratuitous quotation that implies my profundity here-->
[hackers] PHP hosting recommendations for DeanSpace?
We're ready to move on this but wanted to get everyone's input on a good php/mysql-friendly hosting outfit; we're looking at either http://www.neureal.com or http://www.ixwebhosting.com/ currently; similar deals; we figure 20 gigs transfer a mon will be plenty; good price/features/reliability/support ratio is the dream Thanks CMR <--enter gratuitous quotation that implies my profundity here-->
[hackers] Rebuilding the foundations of NNTP
While I think that the commentary on NNTP is essentially correct -- we are rebuilding the foundation of NNTP, I want to raise a couple of issues that may justify just WHY such a rebuilding is necessary. I started working with NNTP back in 1992 ... it was in fact my first experience with the Internet, prior in fact to HTTP/HTML. At the time, NNTP was small, largely free, was run by a coterie of competent amateurs for the love of the medium and was very much devoted to handling the issues associated with maintaining threading across the boundaries of the nascent Internet. In a decade, the threats that have been lingering at the edge of e-mail has pretty much devoured NNTP. NNTP is difficult to moderate, difficult to search, difficult to archive, difficult to set up. If you want NNTP access, you often have to pay extra from your ISP, and there is no guarantee that the newsgroups that YOU need are going to be available via the server. The bulk of material circulating on Usenet is porn span, sent not by legitimate users of the servers but by companies that seem to feel that extreme (and typically disgusting) acts of sexual display will drive people to their sites. The high volume and poor archiving formats also insure that newsgroups are short memory archives at best. Finally, the role of the web has changed enough that most people are simply not aware that Usenet exists, even in those cases where it is available. Contrast that to what's going on with the current Drupal modules and RSS syndication. I've written chapters in a couple of books on RSS, and consequently have had a lot of chance to think about what exactly this medium is. RSS is significant in that it provides a way to aggregate links and associate that aggregation with some form of editorial filtering and annotation. Why is that important? In great part because it is a function which currently is not done very well within the confines of web pages. Many web pages contain links and editorial content on those links, but in most cases such information is not terribly filterable, is reliant upon webmasters remaining on top of their link pages on a regular basis (something that very seldom occurs in practice) and such feeds cannot be merged together to provide a large stream of aggregation. In other words, the meta-content that Web Pages are able to offer are far less than what RSS can do. A Drupal node can be thought of as a distributor of RSS feeds of varying types, which may or may not also be a transport mechanism for content itself. In most cases RSS is most efficient when the only payload information it does carry is abstracts of contents and linkages, perhaps with enough overhead in terms of production dates and authors to allow verification systems to work effectively. RSS abstracts and categories can be archived and persisted, can be formatted any number of different ways with relatively little work and because of its XML base works well in web services environments. You don't need a specialized server to use it, which isn't true of NNTP, and you aren't dependent upon having to go through a community process to create a new newsgroup, minimizing the alt.* phenomenon. -- Kurt On Sun, Jul 27, 2003 at 09:32:01PM -0700, Ka-Ping Yee wrote: > On Sun, 27 Jul 2003, Jay R. Ashworth wrote: > > NNTP. > > You do realize that what we are doing is rebuilding much of > what NNTP is supposed to do, don't you? Of course I do. That's precisely why I recommended you use the infrastructure and tools already extant. > That's slightly tongue-in-cheek -- but only slightly. Multiple > sites aggregating articles, sharing articles with each other, > updating each other on new posts: it's been done, and it's called > Usenet. Of course we're adding user authentication, nice graphics, > and more structured data -- but it's worth noting that Usenet > didn't work by having every site poll every other site for updates. > > Just something to think about. And it's *also* worth noting that it's *miserable* -- I mean *REALLY REALLY* painful, to follow more than about 4 web forums, run on different sites, hosted by different software packages, with different command structures, and different signons. Stipulated, some percentage of the crowd will *only* ever go here... but I'm inclined to think that's a smaller percentage than might seem obvious... and that the proper solution is to build a web-based NNTP client front end and use the already existant infrastructure which is tuned for that, instead of rebuilding the wheel. MIME is not real popular on traditional Usenet, but no reason you can't use it in a custom implementation on top... Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth [EMAIL PROTECTED] Member of the Technical Staff Baylink RFC 2100 The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think Tampa Bay, Floridahttp://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 647 1274 OS X: Because making Unix user-friendly was easier than debugging Wi
RE: [hackers] Site name considerations...
Well, I've been off at a folk music festival all weekend. (It was a great time. I'll write more about it later at http://aldon.livejournal.com), so I'm just starting to catch up on the flood of emails. I have to say, Kurt's Map is VERY COOL! I look forward to other neat stuff with it. Aldon -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Kurt Cagle Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 5:11 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [hackers] Site name considerations... Speaking of maps - I've been working on a quick sample map with interactivity associated with it. You'll need to download the Adobe SVG plugin (http://www.adobe.com/svg/viewer/install/beta.html) (I'll set it up later so that this could be done automatically), and then open up from my own site: http://www.metaphoricalweb.com/usaMap.svg When I'm done with it, you'll be able to upload any information into the map -- Meetup members, dollars received per state, population figures, listings of events by state, and so forth. Let me know what you thin. -- Kurt -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Shannon Little Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 11:36 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [hackers] Site name considerations... It's a good idea to be forward thinking regarding how the name is going to sound and look when referred to on the site and by potential members. This is part of the reason I really like Dean Country. The site could have a nice flash into saying something like "Now entering Dean Country" and a welcome message: "Welcome to Dean Country" , A "Dean Country Map" that could be visual with an image of the US where people could click on their state to find local sites. These are just a few ideas that would fit nicely into a site theme using deancountry.
RE: [hackers] More on Deanster Participant Content
> From that came a discussion with Britt about how deanforamerica.com > might be re-designed. I've attached an image of what he's come up with. > It shows the idea pretty well: a quote from a participant for every > section. This would be easy enough to set up if it were static, but my > immediate thought was that it should be dynamic. It should be a > rotation of many quotes, which will further drive participation as it > shows that everyone has a chance of having their voice heard. Administrivia note: the user agreement of the site should specify the site's right to do this sort of thing. (Should probably claim nonexclusive right to use/repurpose content). > Do we think this will cure a potential troll problem? IMHO, rigorous > moderation is sufficient for stopping harmful BS. By giving users a > "flag for review" button, you give them a means of doing something > about trolls without feeding them. FYI I know where we might round up some volunteer moderators with loads of experience. Just ask me when the time's right. ~ Jon
Re: [hackers] RE: More on Deanster Participant Content
> I don't really like deanster myself, but at least we all know what we > mean :). We'll put up a naming thread later -- but keep coming up > w/ideas! This might be a place to eventually revive the ill-fated DeanTeam?
Re: [hackers] Fwd: User account details for joshk at Indiana for Dean
On Sun, Jul 27, 2003 at 09:32:01PM -0700, Ka-Ping Yee wrote: > On Sun, 27 Jul 2003, Jay R. Ashworth wrote: > > NNTP. > > You do realize that what we are doing is rebuilding much of > what NNTP is supposed to do, don't you? Of course I do. That's precisely why I recommended you use the infrastructure and tools already extant. > That's slightly tongue-in-cheek -- but only slightly. Multiple > sites aggregating articles, sharing articles with each other, > updating each other on new posts: it's been done, and it's called > Usenet. Of course we're adding user authentication, nice graphics, > and more structured data -- but it's worth noting that Usenet > didn't work by having every site poll every other site for updates. > > Just something to think about. And it's *also* worth noting that it's *miserable* -- I mean *REALLY REALLY* painful, to follow more than about 4 web forums, run on different sites, hosted by different software packages, with different command structures, and different signons. Stipulated, some percentage of the crowd will *only* ever go here... but I'm inclined to think that's a smaller percentage than might seem obvious... and that the proper solution is to build a web-based NNTP client front end and use the already existant infrastructure which is tuned for that, instead of rebuilding the wheel. MIME is not real popular on traditional Usenet, but no reason you can't use it in a custom implementation on top... Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth[EMAIL PROTECTED] Member of the Technical Staff Baylink RFC 2100 The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think Tampa Bay, Floridahttp://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 647 1274 OS X: Because making Unix user-friendly was easier than debugging Windows -- Simon Slavin, on a.f.c
Re: [hackers] RE: More on Deanster Participant Content
Sure, I think it might work. But there is a more basic role for Deanster, and the reason for its urgency (w/the idea of experimenting w/this functionality on top of it). People can't find eachother. Dean supporters in the same area can't find eachother. Dean supporters w/the same interests can't find eachother. If you take the profile module i just posted, adjust privacy settings to taste, and add some category terms for interests, you should be 3/4 of the way there, no? The only two missing pieces are (a) to hook up the taxonomy module so it can tag users as well as content nodes, and (b) to search for zipcodes by distance, but that can't be too hard, since we already have zipcode -> latitude + longitude data. Right. The first iteration won't be hard. But this is separate from the Nodes and the Kit. It's something DFA is going to run/host themselves. I have a line on a database which will give us ZIP --> City/State data. The first version will be quick. Depending on how fast a server emerges we might have something basic up and running in a week or so. -j
Re: [hackers] Arrrrgggghhh! I need help...
Everything in /var/mysql is owned by user mysql with mode 660. The user table permissions are: mysql> select * from user; +---+--+--+-+-+-+-+-+---+-+---+--+---++-+++ | Host | User | Password | Select_priv | Insert_priv | Update_priv | Delete_priv | Create_priv | Drop_priv | Reload_priv | Shutdown_priv | Process_priv | File_priv | Grant_priv | References_priv | Index_priv | Alter_priv | +---+--+--+-+-+-+-+-+---+-+---+--+---++-+++ | localhost | root | | Y | Y | Y | Y | Y | Y | Y | Y | Y| Y | Y | Y | Y | Y | | blueg3| root | | Y | Y | Y | Y | Y | Y | Y | Y | Y| Y | Y | Y | Y | Y | | localhost | | | N | N | N | N | N | N | N | N | N| N | N | N | N | N | | blueg3| | | N | N | N | N | N | N | N | N | N| N | N | N | N | N | | localhost | drupal | | N | N | N | N | N | N | N | N | N| N | N | N | N | N | +---+--+--+-+-+-+-+-+---+-+---+--+---++-+++ 5 rows in set (0.00 sec) On Monday, July 28, 2003, at 02:41 PM, Shannon Little wrote: Did all that...I think it's in permissions somewhere. How should things be set for permissions? Maybe that's where my problem is. I know how to chmod, but I'm not all that clear on how different files should be set. On Monday, July 28, 2003, at 02:31 PM, Mike Cohen wrote: In includes/conf.php make sure you defined the proper username & password for the database: $db_url = "mysql://drupal:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/drupal"; Also make sure you created the database user, assigned a password to it, and granted all permissions for drupal.* to that user. On Monday, July 28, 2003, at 02:11 PM, Shannon Little wrote: Everytime I post something to the site I'm working on, I get this message: user error: Access denied for user: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' to database 'database_name' query: LOCK TABLES sequences WRITE in /home/xx/public_html/drupal/includes/database.mysql.inc on line 75. I edited the private stuff...but anyhow...could anyone advise me about how to resolve this problem? I can still post things, but everytime I do I get the error message. I've tried everything I can think of to fix it and it's just not happening for me. Thanks in advance for any help... Shannon -- "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." --Theodore Roosevelt, 26th US President (1858-1919)
Re: [hackers] Deanster run at DFA
On Mon, Jul 28, 2003 at 12:50:34PM -0700, Joshua Koenig wrote: > > Except that if you run the auth, then all sites have to be approved and > > vetted... or have I managed to completely misunderstand this whole > > thread, > > Zack? > > Well, it's debatable what it means. From my perspective it would just > be independent sites -- could be any site online -- deciding they can > trust DFA for login data. I'll go with whatever Howard's wonks want to > do. It's not a critical piece. Apparently I *did* misunderstand Zack; I thought he was asserting that that was the case. Rough time with English this month, I guess... :-} Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth[EMAIL PROTECTED] Member of the Technical Staff Baylink RFC 2100 The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think Tampa Bay, Floridahttp://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 647 1274 OS X: Because making Unix user-friendly was easier than debugging Windows -- Simon Slavin, on a.f.c
RE: [hackers] RE: More on Deanster Participant Content
I don't really like deanster myself, but at least we all know what we mean :). We'll put up a naming thread later -- but keep coming up w/ideas! Z Zephyr Teachout Internet Organizing & Outreach Dean for America [EMAIL PROTECTED] Meetup at http://www.deanforamerica.com/meetup Get local at http://action.deanforamerica.com Contribute at http://www.deanforamerica.com/contribute -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jay R. Ashworth Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 2:43 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [hackers] RE: More on Deanster Participant Content On Mon, Jul 28, 2003 at 02:41:44PM -0500, Jon Lebkowsky wrote: > One other point about Deanster: you might get some flak from Friendster if > you combine that concept with that name. The Friendster guys aren't > necessarily Dean supporters. Zephyr, you might discuss with legal whether > there's any exposure - obviously it's a great name but a legal hassle would > make it counterproductive, I'm afraid. Do you really think so, Jon, inasmuch as they're *both* (fairly explicitly) derivative of "Napster", which in itself didn't really mean anything? Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth [EMAIL PROTECTED] Member of the Technical Staff Baylink RFC 2100 The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think Tampa Bay, Floridahttp://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 647 1274 OS X: Because making Unix user-friendly was easier than debugging Windows -- Simon Slavin, on a.f.c
Re: [hackers] Draft Deanster Design Doc
I built this in after talking with Britt about the idea for future Howard Dean sites to include rotating "volunteer statements" as part of the design. That's funny, Zack and I were talking about something similar on AIM as part of the endorse module (but we kind of agreed to put it into something separate). I think it's a dynamite idea myself. Just like how if you go to theonion.com, they have a featured personal ad; this will encourage people to put their stuff out there. just my $0.02 -josh
Re: [hackers] Deanster run at DFA
Just catching the tail end of this, but we're fully planning to run deanster, I've got the server space planned, and I'm looking to hire for someone to administer. So all we're doing is making sure its designed in a way we can manage. There's a lot of projects we're going to build on this, and it runs off our main database (we'll be sending out email asking folks to register additional info to fill out deanster profile). This is one that we're completely committed to -- and it would be silly to set up rival deansters off site! Except that if you run the auth, then all sites have to be approved and vetted... or have I managed to completely misunderstand this whole thread, Zack? Well, it's debatable what it means. From my perspective it would just be independent sites -- could be any site online -- deciding they can trust DFA for login data. I'll go with whatever Howard's wonks want to do. It's not a critical piece. -j
Re: [hackers] RE: More on Deanster Participant Content
One other point about Deanster: you might get some flak from Friendster if you combine that concept with that name. The Friendster guys aren't necessarily Dean supporters. Zephyr, you might discuss with legal whether there's any exposure - obviously it's a great name but a legal hassle would make it counterproductive, I'm afraid. Surely we'll vet the name before launching. It makes a good "internal" name though. Pretty clear what we're all talkin' about. We should ask the friendster guys. Maybe they -are- deanies. And when it comes down to it, there are about a zillion *-ster sites out there. Just like there's also iEverything and Apple can't do much about it. But let the law-folk make the call by all means. -j
Re: [hackers] RE: More on Deanster Participant Content
On Mon, Jul 28, 2003 at 02:41:44PM -0500, Jon Lebkowsky wrote: > One other point about Deanster: you might get some flak from Friendster if > you combine that concept with that name. The Friendster guys aren't > necessarily Dean supporters. Zephyr, you might discuss with legal whether > there's any exposure - obviously it's a great name but a legal hassle would > make it counterproductive, I'm afraid. Do you really think so, Jon, inasmuch as they're *both* (fairly explicitly) derivative of "Napster", which in itself didn't really mean anything? Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth[EMAIL PROTECTED] Member of the Technical Staff Baylink RFC 2100 The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think Tampa Bay, Floridahttp://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 647 1274 OS X: Because making Unix user-friendly was easier than debugging Windows -- Simon Slavin, on a.f.c
Re: [hackers] Draft Deanster Design Doc
I built this in after talking with Britt about the idea for future Howard Dean sites to include rotating "volunteer statements" as part of the design. That's funny, Zack and I were talking about something similar on AIM as part of the endorse module (but we kind of agreed to put it into something separate). L - Lynn Siprelle * Writer, Mother, Programmer, Fiber Artisan The New Homemaker: http://www.newhomemaker.com/ Siprelle & Associates: http://www.siprelle.com/ People-Powered Howard! http://www.deanforamerica.com/
RE: [hackers] RE: More on Deanster Participant Content
One other point about Deanster: you might get some flak from Friendster if you combine that concept with that name. The Friendster guys aren't necessarily Dean supporters. Zephyr, you might discuss with legal whether there's any exposure - obviously it's a great name but a legal hassle would make it counterproductive, I'm afraid. > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Behalf Of Zephyr Teachout > Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 12:52 PM > To: 'Joshua Koenig'; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: [hackers] RE: More on Deanster Participant Content > > > Sure, I think it might work. But there is a more basic role for > Deanster, and the reason for its urgency (w/the idea of experimenting > w/this functionality on top of it). > > People can't find eachother. > > Dean supporters in the same area can't find eachother. > > Dean supporters w/the same interests can't find eachother. > > We have, incredibly, a nationwide movement of people who happen to run > into eachother if they use the get local tools -- or show up wearing > buttons -- or are on a listserv. Imagine what it could be if I could > search for local people to ask them to join me? > > The second-and third-level functions are those Josh talked about -- and > ultimately very important -- > > > Z > > Zephyr Teachout > Internet Organizing & Outreach > Dean for America > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Meetup at http://www.deanforamerica.com/meetup > Get local at http://action.deanforamerica.com > Contribute at http://www.deanforamerica.com/contribute > > > -Original Message- > From: Joshua Koenig [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 12:13 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Cc: Zephyr Teachout > Subject: More on Deanster Participant Content > > > After Zephyr's previous posting about content for Deanster, I just > wanted to give y'all a little more of my vision for the whole Deanster > "user expression" piece. You're indubitably "the boss" on this one, so > the call is yours, but I wanted to give you the whole nine yards. > > The notion for this sprung from the fact that there's a wealth of ideas > and content being created by the devotees of the Official Campaign > Blog. Originally, I had thought of hacking Movable Type so that there > would be a way for users to "concur" with other users' comments; to > mark them as an idea, a phrase, a story worth saving. This way at the > end of the day, you can have someone from your team browse through the > 25 most "highlighted" posts. > > Creating a way for the Official Site to grant recognition to stellar > user participation will spur greater participation as well as greater > quality. > > From that came a discussion with Britt about how deanforamerica.com > might be re-designed. I've attached an image of what he's come up with. > It shows the idea pretty well: a quote from a participant for every > section. This would be easy enough to set up if it were static, but my > immediate thought was that it should be dynamic. It should be a > rotation of many quotes, which will further drive participation as it > shows that everyone has a chance of having their voice heard. > > But for you to try and do this -- incorporate participant content -- > requires some structure be built around it. So I thought of a facility > on Deanster which would let you elicit on-topic quotes from your > userbase; there would be some administrative overhead in terms of > flagging content either as "worth highlighting" (good) or > "administrative review" (bad), but this won't take much time at all. > 90% of it can be done by users. Here's how: > > 1) Most of the content will be neither worth posting on DFA or worth > badgering anyone about in terms of taking it down. The process I > describe here will happen less than 10% of the time. > > 2) Objectionable content (e.g. explicit photos, objectionable > statements) can be flagged by any user and quickly addressed by the > moderation staff. If you create an environment that doesn't provide an > opportunity to create entropy, then it won't happen. In other words, if > people don't see bogus profiles, they're far less likely to try it > themselves. > > 3) High-quality content can also be flagged by any user (though not for > themselves), and dealt with in the same fashion. > > 4) Volunteer moderators (trusted participants) can further vet flagged > content. People will kill to have this job. They can send warning > letters to objectionable content posters and give a more seasoned > "thumbs up" to high-quality profiles. > > 5) Finally, one staff member can invest an hour a day selecting the > best of the best and flagging them as worthy of the DFA homepage. > Likewise they can take the official action of booting people who don't > respond to a warning letter. At this point were talking about 1% of > total posts, so it's not really a lot of overhead. > > Do we think this will cure a potential troll problem? IMHO, rigorous > moderation is sufficient for
Re: [hackers] More on Deanster Participant Content
On Mon, Jul 28, 2003 at 10:13:16AM -0700, Joshua Koenig wrote: > The notion for this sprung from the fact that there's a wealth of ideas > and content being created by the devotees of the Official Campaign > Blog. Originally, I had thought of hacking Movable Type so that there > would be a way for users to "concur" with other users' comments; to > mark them as an idea, a phrase, a story worth saving. This way at the > end of the day, you can have someone from your team browse through the > 25 most "highlighted" posts. As one of the people who likes to think he at least *occasionally* posts something there that fits in this category, I'd just like to say Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth[EMAIL PROTECTED] Member of the Technical Staff Baylink RFC 2100 The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think Tampa Bay, Floridahttp://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 647 1274 OS X: Because making Unix user-friendly was easier than debugging Windows -- Simon Slavin, on a.f.c
Re: [hackers] Deanster run at DFA
On Mon, Jul 28, 2003 at 01:44:44PM -0400, Zephyr Teachout wrote: > Just catching the tail end of this, but we're fully planning to run > deanster, I've got the server space planned, and I'm looking to hire for > someone to administer. So all we're doing is making sure its designed in > a way we can manage. There's a lot of projects we're going to build on > this, and it runs off our main database (we'll be sending out email > asking folks to register additional info to fill out deanster profile). > This is one that we're completely committed to -- and it would be silly > to set up rival deansters off site! Except that if you run the auth, then all sites have to be approved and vetted... or have I managed to completely misunderstand this whole thread, Zack? Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth[EMAIL PROTECTED] Member of the Technical Staff Baylink RFC 2100 The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think Tampa Bay, Floridahttp://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 647 1274 OS X: Because making Unix user-friendly was easier than debugging Windows -- Simon Slavin, on a.f.c
Re: [hackers] RE: More on Deanster Participant Content
On Mon, 28 Jul 2003, Zephyr Teachout wrote: > Sure, I think it might work. But there is a more basic role for > Deanster, and the reason for its urgency (w/the idea of experimenting > w/this functionality on top of it). > > People can't find eachother. > > Dean supporters in the same area can't find eachother. > > Dean supporters w/the same interests can't find eachother. If you take the profile module i just posted, adjust privacy settings to taste, and add some category terms for interests, you should be 3/4 of the way there, no? The only two missing pieces are (a) to hook up the taxonomy module so it can tag users as well as content nodes, and (b) to search for zipcodes by distance, but that can't be too hard, since we already have zipcode -> latitude + longitude data. -- ?!ng
[hackers] RE: More on Deanster Participant Content
Sure, I think it might work. But there is a more basic role for Deanster, and the reason for its urgency (w/the idea of experimenting w/this functionality on top of it). People can't find eachother. Dean supporters in the same area can't find eachother. Dean supporters w/the same interests can't find eachother. We have, incredibly, a nationwide movement of people who happen to run into eachother if they use the get local tools -- or show up wearing buttons -- or are on a listserv. Imagine what it could be if I could search for local people to ask them to join me? The second-and third-level functions are those Josh talked about -- and ultimately very important -- Z Zephyr Teachout Internet Organizing & Outreach Dean for America [EMAIL PROTECTED] Meetup at http://www.deanforamerica.com/meetup Get local at http://action.deanforamerica.com Contribute at http://www.deanforamerica.com/contribute -Original Message- From: Joshua Koenig [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 12:13 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Zephyr Teachout Subject: More on Deanster Participant Content After Zephyr's previous posting about content for Deanster, I just wanted to give y'all a little more of my vision for the whole Deanster "user expression" piece. You're indubitably "the boss" on this one, so the call is yours, but I wanted to give you the whole nine yards. The notion for this sprung from the fact that there's a wealth of ideas and content being created by the devotees of the Official Campaign Blog. Originally, I had thought of hacking Movable Type so that there would be a way for users to "concur" with other users' comments; to mark them as an idea, a phrase, a story worth saving. This way at the end of the day, you can have someone from your team browse through the 25 most "highlighted" posts. Creating a way for the Official Site to grant recognition to stellar user participation will spur greater participation as well as greater quality. From that came a discussion with Britt about how deanforamerica.com might be re-designed. I've attached an image of what he's come up with. It shows the idea pretty well: a quote from a participant for every section. This would be easy enough to set up if it were static, but my immediate thought was that it should be dynamic. It should be a rotation of many quotes, which will further drive participation as it shows that everyone has a chance of having their voice heard. But for you to try and do this -- incorporate participant content -- requires some structure be built around it. So I thought of a facility on Deanster which would let you elicit on-topic quotes from your userbase; there would be some administrative overhead in terms of flagging content either as "worth highlighting" (good) or "administrative review" (bad), but this won't take much time at all. 90% of it can be done by users. Here's how: 1) Most of the content will be neither worth posting on DFA or worth badgering anyone about in terms of taking it down. The process I describe here will happen less than 10% of the time. 2) Objectionable content (e.g. explicit photos, objectionable statements) can be flagged by any user and quickly addressed by the moderation staff. If you create an environment that doesn't provide an opportunity to create entropy, then it won't happen. In other words, if people don't see bogus profiles, they're far less likely to try it themselves. 3) High-quality content can also be flagged by any user (though not for themselves), and dealt with in the same fashion. 4) Volunteer moderators (trusted participants) can further vet flagged content. People will kill to have this job. They can send warning letters to objectionable content posters and give a more seasoned "thumbs up" to high-quality profiles. 5) Finally, one staff member can invest an hour a day selecting the best of the best and flagging them as worthy of the DFA homepage. Likewise they can take the official action of booting people who don't respond to a warning letter. At this point were talking about 1% of total posts, so it's not really a lot of overhead. Do we think this will cure a potential troll problem? IMHO, rigorous moderation is sufficient for stopping harmful BS. By giving users a "flag for review" button, you give them a means of doing something about trolls without feeding them. cheers -josh Politics is the art of controlling your environment. Participate! Elect Howard Dean President in 2004! http://www.outlandishjosh.com/politics/dean/
RE: [hackers] Privacy control for profiles
Yes, and authenticating users to log onto nodes would constitute "vetting / hosting" correct? -Zack On Mon, 28 Jul 2003, Zephyr Teachout wrote: > Not quite! DFA is planning on running Deanster. We're just not vetting > nodes or hosting them. No reason we can't link to them, map them, and > push them (much like we do w/dean directory). We're just not > controlling, directing, or hosting them. > > Z > > Zephyr Teachout > Internet Organizing & Outreach > Dean for America > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Meetup at http://www.deanforamerica.com/meetup > Get local at http://action.deanforamerica.com > Contribute at http://www.deanforamerica.com/contribute > > > -Original Message- > From: zachary rosen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 12:07 PM > To: Joshua Koenig > Cc: Ka-Ping Yee; Jon Lebkowsky; Zephyr Teachout; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [hackers] Privacy control for profiles > > > On Mon, 28 Jul 2003, Joshua Koenig wrote > > Deanster could also act as a (Jabber/Drupal) single-sign-on point for > > any Drupal Dean Nodes a Deanster also frequents. > > We talked about this with Zephyr, and the deal is - if DFA run Deanster > then it cannot handle Authentication for the Nodes or they would have to > be vetted by DFA (ie official) so I don't think this is possible. > > -Zack >
Re: [hackers] Arrrrgggghhh! I need help...
Did all that...I think it's in permissions somewhere. How should things be set for permissions? Maybe that's where my problem is. I know how to chmod, but I'm not all that clear on how different files should be set. On Monday, July 28, 2003, at 02:31 PM, Mike Cohen wrote: In includes/conf.php make sure you defined the proper username & password for the database: $db_url = "mysql://drupal:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/drupal"; Also make sure you created the database user, assigned a password to it, and granted all permissions for drupal.* to that user. On Monday, July 28, 2003, at 02:11 PM, Shannon Little wrote: Everytime I post something to the site I'm working on, I get this message: user error: Access denied for user: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' to database 'database_name' query: LOCK TABLES sequences WRITE in /home/xx/public_html/drupal/includes/database.mysql.inc on line 75. I edited the private stuff...but anyhow...could anyone advise me about how to resolve this problem? I can still post things, but everytime I do I get the error message. I've tried everything I can think of to fix it and it's just not happening for me. Thanks in advance for any help... Shannon -- "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." --Theodore Roosevelt, 26th US President (1858-1919)
Re: [hackers] Arrrrgggghhh! I need help...
In includes/conf.php make sure you defined the proper username & password for the database: $db_url = "mysql://drupal:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/drupal"; Also make sure you created the database user, assigned a password to it, and granted all permissions for drupal.* to that user. On Monday, July 28, 2003, at 02:11 PM, Shannon Little wrote: Everytime I post something to the site I'm working on, I get this message: user error: Access denied for user: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' to database 'database_name' query: LOCK TABLES sequences WRITE in /home/xx/public_html/drupal/includes/database.mysql.inc on line 75. I edited the private stuff...but anyhow...could anyone advise me about how to resolve this problem? I can still post things, but everytime I do I get the error message. I've tried everything I can think of to fix it and it's just not happening for me. Thanks in advance for any help... Shannon -- "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." --Theodore Roosevelt, 26th US President (1858-1919)
[hackers] Arrrrgggghhh! I need help...
Everytime I post something to the site I'm working on, I get this message: user error: Access denied for user: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' to database 'database_name' query: LOCK TABLES sequences WRITE in /home/xx/public_html/drupal/includes/database.mysql.inc on line 75. I edited the private stuff...but anyhow...could anyone advise me about how to resolve this problem? I can still post things, but everytime I do I get the error message. I've tried everything I can think of to fix it and it's just not happening for me. Thanks in advance for any help... Shannon
RE: [hackers] Privacy control for profiles
Great. I'm working on fields, which are primarily driven by fields here -- Plus. The other plus is info about the nodes they are involved in. Z Zephyr Teachout Internet Organizing & Outreach Dean for America [EMAIL PROTECTED] Meetup at http://www.deanforamerica.com/meetup Get local at http://action.deanforamerica.com Contribute at http://www.deanforamerica.com/contribute -Original Message- From: Joshua Koenig [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 11:40 AM To: Ka-Ping Yee Cc: Jon Lebkowsky; Zephyr Teachout; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [hackers] Privacy control for profiles > I agree. Giving members privacy control over their profile information > encourages them to share more information and add more value to the > database. (It's also respectful and polite.) Preaching to the Choir here. ;) > I've been working on an enhanced profile module -- please use it or > build > off of it if it can help you. Currently, it has the following features > in addition to the standard profile module: We should coordinate on this. Part of my vision is having matching fields between an extended Drupal profile and Deanster. That way when people register for a Drupal Node they can check a box to simultaneously create a Deanster profile. This works both ways: when registering for a Drupal Node, the enhanced registration will ask, "are you a Deanster" and if so it will create a useful default profile from your data there. Deanster could also act as a (Jabber/Drupal) single-sign-on point for any Drupal Dean Nodes a Deanster also frequents. > I'll post a link to this module on the TalentDatabase page. Please > let me know what you think of it. Excellent. I'll review it further. cheers -josh
[hackers] Deanster run at DFA
Just catching the tail end of this, but we're fully planning to run deanster, I've got the server space planned, and I'm looking to hire for someone to administer. So all we're doing is making sure its designed in a way we can manage. There's a lot of projects we're going to build on this, and it runs off our main database (we'll be sending out email asking folks to register additional info to fill out deanster profile). This is one that we're completely committed to -- and it would be silly to set up rival deansters off site! Z Zephyr Teachout Internet Organizing & Outreach Dean for America [EMAIL PROTECTED] Meetup at http://www.deanforamerica.com/meetup Get local at http://action.deanforamerica.com Contribute at http://www.deanforamerica.com/contribute -Original Message- From: Joshua Koenig [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 12:26 PM To: zachary rosen Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Zephyr Teachout; Jon Lebkowsky; Ka-Ping Yee Subject: Re: [hackers] Privacy control for profiles >>> We talked about this with Zephyr, and the deal is - if DFA run >>> Deanster >>> then it cannot handle Authentication for the Nodes or they would have >>> to >>> be vetted by DFA (ie official) so I don't think this is possible. >> >> What about the opposite direction? Can unofficial nodes act as >> single-signons for Deanster? All this implies is that Deanster will >> trust an external source for identity validation, a necessary >> component >> of any distributed identity framework. To put it another way, how is >> this different from Deanster accepting MS Passport validation? > > I don't see any problem with the opposite direction. THere shouldnt be > any bad implications of Deanster using trusted node logins that I can > think of. The issue with nodes using Deanster logins is that - if the > nodes authentication is "controlled" by "official" DFA services, then > the > nodes must become official / vetted as well. This make sense? It does make some sense. I think it's a little over-cautious (e.g. MS doesn't have to "endorse" every site that wants to use Passport) but it's not that big a deal. Having it work by allowing local Nodes to be trusted sources for identity is probably better anyway. More of a foundation for distributed architecture. cheers -josh
RE: [hackers] Privacy control for profiles
Not quite! DFA is planning on running Deanster. We're just not vetting nodes or hosting them. No reason we can't link to them, map them, and push them (much like we do w/dean directory). We're just not controlling, directing, or hosting them. Z Zephyr Teachout Internet Organizing & Outreach Dean for America [EMAIL PROTECTED] Meetup at http://www.deanforamerica.com/meetup Get local at http://action.deanforamerica.com Contribute at http://www.deanforamerica.com/contribute -Original Message- From: zachary rosen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 12:07 PM To: Joshua Koenig Cc: Ka-Ping Yee; Jon Lebkowsky; Zephyr Teachout; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [hackers] Privacy control for profiles On Mon, 28 Jul 2003, Joshua Koenig wrote > Deanster could also act as a (Jabber/Drupal) single-sign-on point for > any Drupal Dean Nodes a Deanster also frequents. We talked about this with Zephyr, and the deal is - if DFA run Deanster then it cannot handle Authentication for the Nodes or they would have to be vetted by DFA (ie official) so I don't think this is possible. -Zack
RE: [hackers] Draft Deanster Design Doc
Agreed. Ultimately there will be more room for this, but I want to focus
on basic model first. Also, the fact of limited expression will actually
drive people to two things we're excited about -- conversations
w/eachother and setting up their own nodes.
Z
Zephyr Teachout
Internet Organizing & Outreach
Dean for America
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Meetup at http://www.deanforamerica.com/meetup
Get local at http://action.deanforamerica.com
Contribute at http://www.deanforamerica.com/contribute
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Joshua Koenig
Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 11:36 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [hackers] Draft Deanster Design Doc
> The one thing that I would change in Josh's model is just that we are
> not thinking of this as a place for public expression ("why I support
> Dean") not because we don't want that expression, but because
> (1) there are other venues for it, and
> (2) it drastically (or almost completely) eviscerates the
> moderation/management needs if we don't provide that space--if there
is
> no "enter your own content here" but all pick and choose and links to
> forum, we don't need to vet who enters at ALL which is ideal (this is
> the big diff between us and friendster -- we don't have staff who can
> routinely check every new person and we don't have people who want to
> kill the campaign by posting obscene or harassing posts (that's the
big
> concern, not dissent).
I built this in after talking with Britt about the idea for future
Howard Dean sites to include rotating "volunteer statements" as part of
the design. Also, for this to work users need to be at least able to
tell other people a little about them.
If you're worried about Trolls (people trying to sabotage the system
socially), the best way to deal is to have a "flag for review" button
ala Friendster. Let the users do 90% of the moderation for you.
> It seems if we can do that and roll it out, we can then add other
> features like uploading contacts and rating -- but I'm not the
> programming guru.
Yes, a phased approach is best. I'll turn out some more detail today.
Then we start breaking this (and MetaDean) into discreet chunks and
handing off the work. You know, the fun part.
cheers
-j
Re: [hackers] Privacy control for profiles
We talked about this with Zephyr, and the deal is - if DFA run Deanster then it cannot handle Authentication for the Nodes or they would have to be vetted by DFA (ie official) so I don't think this is possible. What about the opposite direction? Can unofficial nodes act as single-signons for Deanster? All this implies is that Deanster will trust an external source for identity validation, a necessary component of any distributed identity framework. To put it another way, how is this different from Deanster accepting MS Passport validation? I don't see any problem with the opposite direction. THere shouldnt be any bad implications of Deanster using trusted node logins that I can think of. The issue with nodes using Deanster logins is that - if the nodes authentication is "controlled" by "official" DFA services, then the nodes must become official / vetted as well. This make sense? It does make some sense. I think it's a little over-cautious (e.g. MS doesn't have to "endorse" every site that wants to use Passport) but it's not that big a deal. Having it work by allowing local Nodes to be trusted sources for identity is probably better anyway. More of a foundation for distributed architecture. cheers -josh
Re: [hackers] Privacy control for profiles
On Mon, 28 Jul 2003, Joshua Koenig wrote: > >>> We talked about this with Zephyr, and the deal is - if DFA run > >>> Deanster > >>> then it cannot handle Authentication for the Nodes or they would have > >>> to > >>> be vetted by DFA (ie official) so I don't think this is possible. > >> > >> What about the opposite direction? Can unofficial nodes act as > >> single-signons for Deanster? All this implies is that Deanster will > >> trust an external source for identity validation, a necessary > >> component > >> of any distributed identity framework. To put it another way, how is > >> this different from Deanster accepting MS Passport validation? > > > > I don't see any problem with the opposite direction. THere shouldnt be > > any bad implications of Deanster using trusted node logins that I can > > think of. The issue with nodes using Deanster logins is that - if the > > nodes authentication is "controlled" by "official" DFA services, then > > the > > nodes must become official / vetted as well. This make sense? > > It does make some sense. I think it's a little over-cautious (e.g. MS > doesn't have to "endorse" every site that wants to use Passport) but > it's not that big a deal. Having it work by allowing local Nodes to be > trusted sources for identity is probably better anyway. More of a > foundation for distributed architecture. Agreed on all counts ;) -Zack > cheers > -josh >
Re: [hackers] Privacy control for profiles
On Mon, 28 Jul 2003, Joshua Koenig wrote: > >> Deanster could also act as a (Jabber/Drupal) single-sign-on point for > >> any Drupal Dean Nodes a Deanster also frequents. > > > > We talked about this with Zephyr, and the deal is - if DFA run Deanster > > then it cannot handle Authentication for the Nodes or they would have > > to > > be vetted by DFA (ie official) so I don't think this is possible. > > What about the opposite direction? Can unofficial nodes act as > single-signons for Deanster? All this implies is that Deanster will > trust an external source for identity validation, a necessary component > of any distributed identity framework. To put it another way, how is > this different from Deanster accepting MS Passport validation? > > Not that I'm recommending this, but you get the point. I don't see any problem with the opposite direction. THere shouldnt be any bad implications of Deanster using trusted node logins that I can think of. The issue with nodes using Deanster logins is that - if the nodes authentication is "controlled" by "official" DFA services, then the nodes must become official / vetted as well. This make sense? -Zack > cheers > -josh >
Re: [hackers] Privacy control for profiles
Deanster could also act as a (Jabber/Drupal) single-sign-on point for any Drupal Dean Nodes a Deanster also frequents. We talked about this with Zephyr, and the deal is - if DFA run Deanster then it cannot handle Authentication for the Nodes or they would have to be vetted by DFA (ie official) so I don't think this is possible. What about the opposite direction? Can unofficial nodes act as single-signons for Deanster? All this implies is that Deanster will trust an external source for identity validation, a necessary component of any distributed identity framework. To put it another way, how is this different from Deanster accepting MS Passport validation? Not that I'm recommending this, but you get the point. cheers -josh
[hackers] More on Deanster Participant Content
After Zephyr's previous posting about content for Deanster, I just wanted to give y'all a little more of my vision for the whole Deanster "user expression" piece. You're indubitably "the boss" on this one, so the call is yours, but I wanted to give you the whole nine yards. The notion for this sprung from the fact that there's a wealth of ideas and content being created by the devotees of the Official Campaign Blog. Originally, I had thought of hacking Movable Type so that there would be a way for users to "concur" with other users' comments; to mark them as an idea, a phrase, a story worth saving. This way at the end of the day, you can have someone from your team browse through the 25 most "highlighted" posts. Creating a way for the Official Site to grant recognition to stellar user participation will spur greater participation as well as greater quality. From that came a discussion with Britt about how deanforamerica.com might be re-designed. I've attached an image of what he's come up with. It shows the idea pretty well: a quote from a participant for every section. This would be easy enough to set up if it were static, but my immediate thought was that it should be dynamic. It should be a rotation of many quotes, which will further drive participation as it shows that everyone has a chance of having their voice heard. But for you to try and do this -- incorporate participant content -- requires some structure be built around it. So I thought of a facility on Deanster which would let you elicit on-topic quotes from your userbase; there would be some administrative overhead in terms of flagging content either as "worth highlighting" (good) or "administrative review" (bad), but this won't take much time at all. 90% of it can be done by users. Here's how: 1) Most of the content will be neither worth posting on DFA or worth badgering anyone about in terms of taking it down. The process I describe here will happen less than 10% of the time. 2) Objectionable content (e.g. explicit photos, objectionable statements) can be flagged by any user and quickly addressed by the moderation staff. If you create an environment that doesn't provide an opportunity to create entropy, then it won't happen. In other words, if people don't see bogus profiles, they're far less likely to try it themselves. 3) High-quality content can also be flagged by any user (though not for themselves), and dealt with in the same fashion. 4) Volunteer moderators (trusted participants) can further vet flagged content. People will kill to have this job. They can send warning letters to objectionable content posters and give a more seasoned "thumbs up" to high-quality profiles. 5) Finally, one staff member can invest an hour a day selecting the best of the best and flagging them as worthy of the DFA homepage. Likewise they can take the official action of booting people who don't respond to a warning letter. At this point were talking about 1% of total posts, so it's not really a lot of overhead. Do we think this will cure a potential troll problem? IMHO, rigorous moderation is sufficient for stopping harmful BS. By giving users a "flag for review" button, you give them a means of doing something about trolls without feeding them. cheers -josh Politics is the art of controlling your environment. Participate! Elect Howard Dean President in 2004! http://www.outlandishjosh.com/politics/dean/
Re: [hackers] Privacy control for profiles
On Mon, 28 Jul 2003, Joshua Koenig wrote > Deanster could also act as a (Jabber/Drupal) single-sign-on point for > any Drupal Dean Nodes a Deanster also frequents. We talked about this with Zephyr, and the deal is - if DFA run Deanster then it cannot handle Authentication for the Nodes or they would have to be vetted by DFA (ie official) so I don't think this is possible. -Zack
Re: [hackers] We are outta here! Help us move into our new home.....
Hey, have a look at this logo I busted out in ps; it'd be placed in a deep blue header bar "cell', left aligned, so th deep blue'd extend across the page head; maybe I'll bust out a theme for it as well... CMR <--enter gratuitous quotation that implies my profundity here--> <>
Re: [hackers] Privacy control for profiles
I agree. Giving members privacy control over their profile information encourages them to share more information and add more value to the database. (It's also respectful and polite.) Preaching to the Choir here. ;) I've been working on an enhanced profile module -- please use it or build off of it if it can help you. Currently, it has the following features in addition to the standard profile module: We should coordinate on this. Part of my vision is having matching fields between an extended Drupal profile and Deanster. That way when people register for a Drupal Node they can check a box to simultaneously create a Deanster profile. This works both ways: when registering for a Drupal Node, the enhanced registration will ask, "are you a Deanster" and if so it will create a useful default profile from your data there. Deanster could also act as a (Jabber/Drupal) single-sign-on point for any Drupal Dean Nodes a Deanster also frequents. I'll post a link to this module on the TalentDatabase page. Please let me know what you think of it. Excellent. I'll review it further. cheers -josh
Re: [hackers] Draft Deanster Design Doc
The one thing that I would change in Josh's model is just that we are
not thinking of this as a place for public expression ("why I support
Dean") not because we don't want that expression, but because
(1) there are other venues for it, and
(2) it drastically (or almost completely) eviscerates the
moderation/management needs if we don't provide that space--if there is
no "enter your own content here" but all pick and choose and links to
forum, we don't need to vet who enters at ALL which is ideal (this is
the big diff between us and friendster -- we don't have staff who can
routinely check every new person and we don't have people who want to
kill the campaign by posting obscene or harassing posts (that's the big
concern, not dissent).
I built this in after talking with Britt about the idea for future
Howard Dean sites to include rotating "volunteer statements" as part of
the design. Also, for this to work users need to be at least able to
tell other people a little about them.
If you're worried about Trolls (people trying to sabotage the system
socially), the best way to deal is to have a "flag for review" button
ala Friendster. Let the users do 90% of the moderation for you.
It seems if we can do that and roll it out, we can then add other
features like uploading contacts and rating -- but I'm not the
programming guru.
Yes, a phased approach is best. I'll turn out some more detail today.
Then we start breaking this (and MetaDean) into discreet chunks and
handing off the work. You know, the fun part.
cheers
-j
RE: [hackers] Re: [developers] MetaDean NodeTracking Design Doc
Hi all, I'd like to introduce myself, I just joined. My name is Terren Suydam (username bacon). I love what I'm seeing here, and I'm looking forward to jumping in. Howard Dean brought me here, but the possibility of helping to transform the democratic process and bring power to the little guy is what has really intrigued me. I have a question or two about Josh's post. Please forgive me if this has been covered. See inline comments. > As I see it there are two purposes to having MetaDean "rate" content: > > 1) To tell what's hot, popular, kickin' etc. (most important) > > 2) To allow for some kind of editorial comment on content (e.g. "Be > aware of this awful news article; it's a complete hack job.") and then... > Item #2 is encapsulated in the normal blog format. We have to trust > that we're smart enough and tasteful enough to do our own > editorializing. If someone just links to a dean-bashing article, pretty > soon someone will pick it apart in their blog, and then that blog > content becomes the hot link. What if we made it easy for consumers of stories to rate them? Perhaps we can offer this easily to sites that want to implement the Drupal software this group is creating. Having separate ratings - one determined algorithmically, and one determined by users - might help people to understand better what they're clicking on. Imagine if every feed displayed by MetaDean had two ratings underneath it: 'quality' (user-voting) and 'meme strength' (algorithmic). (I know, 'meme strength' is too nerdy. I can't think of a normal word that captures it quite so non-judgementally.) But this might help alleviate the potentially embarrasing possibility that Dean-bashing stuff winds up all over the top nodes as 'hot links', not to mention give a programmatic way to provide user feedback of content (for participating websites, anyway). Terren __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
