Re: Pentax Gallery Voting
I'm totally with you, Bruce. I have posted here before on how the voting page is programmed, and this change seems to be addressing one of my main criticisms; the total size of the webpage. Because of the way it is programmed, the page has to pre-load all the full-gallery-size images at first call. With five full-gallery-size images in landscape orientation, the voting page easily amounts to 1.5 MB. By shrinking the large pics on the voting page, they reduce load time significantly. What would have been better was to increase thumbnail size, and drop the pre-loading for an on-demand loading of the full-size images. However, this would mean a total deviation from the page design. The whole voting registration would need reprogramming. It's not a small task. :-( Jostein 2008/3/9, Bruce Dayton [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Has anyone noticed the big change in the voting mechanism. It seems that the pictures are being shrunk down below the 600 pixel size that is set for the gallery. Two issues for me: 1) picture is even smaller - makes it harder to evaluate 2) the sizing function can massacre the picture making it look much poorer than it really is. -- Best regards, Bruce -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- http://www.alunfoto.no/galleri/ http://alunfoto.blogspot.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Voting
No, guess I hadn't. Will do so. Jack --- Bruce Dayton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Has anyone noticed the big change in the voting mechanism. It seems that the pictures are being shrunk down below the 600 pixel size that is set for the gallery. Two issues for me: 1) picture is even smaller - makes it harder to evaluate 2) the sizing function can massacre the picture making it look much poorer than it really is. -- Best regards, Bruce -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Voting
I just now decided to do some voting and noticed the changes you mentioned. Images do load more quickly by a nanosecond or so and I don't have a personal problem with it. Jack --- Bruce Dayton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Has anyone noticed the big change in the voting mechanism. It seems that the pictures are being shrunk down below the 600 pixel size that is set for the gallery. Two issues for me: 1) picture is even smaller - makes it harder to evaluate 2) the sizing function can massacre the picture making it look much poorer than it really is. -- Best regards, Bruce -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Voting
I've got Flashblock installed on my Firefox so now I don't see any thumbnail at all... :-| On Sun, Mar 9, 2008 at 4:44 PM, Bruce Dayton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Has anyone noticed the big change in the voting mechanism. It seems that the pictures are being shrunk down below the 600 pixel size that is set for the gallery. Two issues for me: 1) picture is even smaller - makes it harder to evaluate 2) the sizing function can massacre the picture making it look much poorer than it really is. -- Best regards, Bruce -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Bong Manayon http://www.bong.uni.cc -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
I have not submitted anything since the first batch. Phe.:-) Dave On 9/1/07, David Savage [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't know what the hell is going on. One of the shots I mentioned the other day that had been declined (the sunset shot), I resubmitted, and it has now been accepted. ??? Cheers, Dave On 9/1/07, John Sessoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Kenneth Waller I seem to remember somewhere seeing that the judges will have the final say on accepted images. Kenneth Waller Yeah, peer voters can vote it in and the judges can vote it out. But can the judges vote it in if the peer voters vote it out? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- Equine Photography www.caughtinmotion.com http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/ Ontario Canada -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
From: Kenneth Waller I seem to remember somewhere seeing that the judges will have the final say on accepted images. Kenneth Waller Yeah, peer voters can vote it in and the judges can vote it out. But can the judges vote it in if the peer voters vote it out? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
I don't know what the hell is going on. One of the shots I mentioned the other day that had been declined (the sunset shot), I resubmitted, and it has now been accepted. ??? Cheers, Dave On 9/1/07, John Sessoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Kenneth Waller I seem to remember somewhere seeing that the judges will have the final say on accepted images. Kenneth Waller Yeah, peer voters can vote it in and the judges can vote it out. But can the judges vote it in if the peer voters vote it out? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
maybe this discussion has prompted more voters among the photographers, or maybe more positive voting? who knows. Glad to hear your photo got in though. rg2 On 9/1/07, David Savage [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't know what the hell is going on. One of the shots I mentioned the other day that had been declined (the sunset shot), I resubmitted, and it has now been accepted. ??? Cheers, Dave On 9/1/07, John Sessoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Kenneth Waller I seem to remember somewhere seeing that the judges will have the final say on accepted images. Kenneth Waller Yeah, peer voters can vote it in and the judges can vote it out. But can the judges vote it in if the peer voters vote it out? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
Yes! J --- John Sessoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Kenneth Waller I seem to remember somewhere seeing that the judges will have the final say on accepted images. Kenneth Waller Yeah, peer voters can vote it in and the judges can vote it out. But can the judges vote it in if the peer voters vote it out? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
The question should be; Will the judges even see the photo, if the peers vote it out? John Sessoms wrote: From: Kenneth Waller I seem to remember somewhere seeing that the judges will have the final say on accepted images. Kenneth Waller Yeah, peer voters can vote it in and the judges can vote it out. But can the judges vote it in if the peer voters vote it out? -- Remember, it’s pillage then burn. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
The question should be; Will the judges even see the photo, if the peers vote it out? I think not: Your votes are used to sort the images so that the best are presented to the acceptance committee. PENTAX makes the final determination of which images will appear in the Gallery. I'd guess that after a certain number and proportion of negative votes has been met, the judges don't even see a photo. Say, a minimun of ten votes, and 8/10 negative (just an example) and it may just be declined without being seen by the judges. But, just a thought. rg2 On 9/1/07, P. J. Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The question should be; Will the judges even see the photo, if the peers vote it out? John Sessoms wrote: From: Kenneth Waller I seem to remember somewhere seeing that the judges will have the final say on accepted images. Kenneth Waller Yeah, peer voters can vote it in and the judges can vote it out. But can the judges vote it in if the peer voters vote it out? -- Remember, it's pillage then burn. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
Yes! I would certainly hope so. Is you answer based on any communications with the gallery? Kenneth Waller http://tinyurl.com/272u2f - Original Message - From: Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery voting Yes! J --- John Sessoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Kenneth Waller I seem to remember somewhere seeing that the judges will have the final say on accepted images. Kenneth Waller Yeah, peer voters can vote it in and the judges can vote it out. But can the judges vote it in if the peer voters vote it out? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
maybe this discussion has prompted more voters among the photographers, or maybe more positive voting? More likely it's showing the randomness of the process. If it was a truly bad images I would like to believe it would not have been accepted the second time around. Kenneth Waller http://tinyurl.com/272u2f - Original Message - From: Rebekah [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery voting maybe this discussion has prompted more voters among the photographers, or maybe more positive voting? who knows. Glad to hear your photo got in though. rg2 On 9/1/07, David Savage [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't know what the hell is going on. One of the shots I mentioned the other day that had been declined (the sunset shot), I resubmitted, and it has now been accepted. ??? Cheers, Dave On 9/1/07, John Sessoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Kenneth Waller I seem to remember somewhere seeing that the judges will have the final say on accepted images. Kenneth Waller Yeah, peer voters can vote it in and the judges can vote it out. But can the judges vote it in if the peer voters vote it out? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
No, it's only based on my reading of the original announcement and recollection of the associated workings..as I remember them. 8-0 duh Jack --- Kenneth Waller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes! I would certainly hope so. Is you answer based on any communications with the gallery? Kenneth Waller http://tinyurl.com/272u2f - Original Message - From: Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery voting Yes! J --- John Sessoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Kenneth Waller I seem to remember somewhere seeing that the judges will have the final say on accepted images. Kenneth Waller Yeah, peer voters can vote it in and the judges can vote it out. But can the judges vote it in if the peer voters vote it out? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. http://sims.yahoo.com/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
P. J. Alling wrote: The question should be; Will the judges even see the photo, if the peers vote it out? My understanding is that the peers can't actually vote it out. In other words, the peer voting is used to give some rough prioritizing before the judges do their thing. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
Indeed, that's it exactly. From: P. J. Alling The question should be; Will the judges even see the photo, if the peers vote it out? John Sessoms wrote: From: Kenneth Waller I seem to remember somewhere seeing that the judges will have the final say on accepted images. Kenneth Waller Yeah, peer voters can vote it in and the judges can vote it out. But can the judges vote it in if the peer voters vote it out? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
Now you are starting to see my complaint. I truly believe that a certain number of no votes will reject it and the judges will not see it. Basically, because the number of artists voting is much larger than the judges, you will always get a subset of them who will vote - luck of the draw on timing. So sometimes, a subset may overall reject a photo and sometimes accept it. That is why I was saying that the type of shooter may adversely effect the rejection. All of my wedding shots that were accepted were before the artist voting, since then, nothing has made it through. Go figure. I'm sure it has to be an amazing shot to get past all the artist voting - and maybe at this stage that is ok - there is quite a bit in the gallery now. -- Best regards, Bruce Saturday, September 1, 2007, 7:48:42 AM, you wrote: DS I don't know what the hell is going on. DS One of the shots I mentioned the other day that had been declined (the DS sunset shot), I resubmitted, and it has now been accepted. DS ??? DS Cheers, DS Dave DS On 9/1/07, John Sessoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Kenneth Waller I seem to remember somewhere seeing that the judges will have the final say on accepted images. Kenneth Waller Yeah, peer voters can vote it in and the judges can vote it out. But can the judges vote it in if the peer voters vote it out? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
On Sat, Sep 01, 2007 at 04:07:44PM -0400, Mark Roberts wrote: P. J. Alling wrote: The question should be; Will the judges even see the photo, if the peers vote it out? My understanding is that the peers can't actually vote it out. In other words, the peer voting is used to give some rough prioritizing before the judges do their thing. How does that square with the almost instantaneous rejections? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
If a certain number of votes rejects an image before it gets to the judges, I think it would be good if there were some requirements to be met before one could vote. I signed up, and suddenly have the power to vote, so this suggests that anyone could simply sign up and start negatively voting everyone's photos. Perhaps after a photographer has had a certain number of photos accepted into the gallery? I don't know, but I really don't believe that such power should be handed out to anyone. rg2 On 9/1/07, Bruce Dayton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Now you are starting to see my complaint. I truly believe that a certain number of no votes will reject it and the judges will not see it. Basically, because the number of artists voting is much larger than the judges, you will always get a subset of them who will vote - luck of the draw on timing. So sometimes, a subset may overall reject a photo and sometimes accept it. That is why I was saying that the type of shooter may adversely effect the rejection. All of my wedding shots that were accepted were before the artist voting, since then, nothing has made it through. Go figure. I'm sure it has to be an amazing shot to get past all the artist voting - and maybe at this stage that is ok - there is quite a bit in the gallery now. -- Best regards, Bruce Saturday, September 1, 2007, 7:48:42 AM, you wrote: DS I don't know what the hell is going on. DS One of the shots I mentioned the other day that had been declined (the DS sunset shot), I resubmitted, and it has now been accepted. DS ??? DS Cheers, DS Dave DS On 9/1/07, John Sessoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Kenneth Waller I seem to remember somewhere seeing that the judges will have the final say on accepted images. Kenneth Waller Yeah, peer voters can vote it in and the judges can vote it out. But can the judges vote it in if the peer voters vote it out? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
I had a conversation with John Carlson a while back regards the Pentax Photo Gallery submission voting process because I had/have misgivings about it and am very uncomfortable. This is an excerpt from his reply: --- We are using the voting process to help limit the number of images we have to review. Even without promotion of the site, we are receiving more images than we can review with our current manpower. Once this site is openly promoted and advertised, the number of images submitted will only increase. We have no intention of making this an exclusive site with a limited number of photographers, but we also want the best images. Some images are declined automatically once they meet a certain criteria determined by Pentax. Currently, the thresholds are set extremely low. An image must have at least 20 votes, with less than 25% of those favorable, to be automatically declined. Unfortunately, this may lead to some good images being declined, but for the first two weeks we have had this system in place, the voters have been relatively accurate in their opinions. As we receive more images, and more voters, we can adjust the thresholds up or down to make sure we are looking at the best images. I imagine as the site is promoted and more artists are added, we will have to increase the thresholds. Ultimately, Pentax makes the final decision on images accepted to the gallery. It is still a matter of the judging committee looking at a large number of images, and selecting pictures that show the best of what Pentax equipment and photographers can do. There have been images that have received a large number of positive votes that we have declined, just as there has been images with few positive votes that we have accepted. --- I continue to be uncomfortable with voting on other people's submissions, and do not. I batch up 10-30 photos at a time, as mood and time permits, and upload them for review. The majority are declined, a few get in. They've accepted 23 of what must now be 140-180 submitted photos. How they select them, ultimately, is their business ... as with any other exhibition judging and curating. My business is to submit work that I am happy with and let them do their thing. I'm happy with the opportunity to have some of my work presented on their web gallery. Godfrey -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
There may be a bit of..if mine can't make it in, this sure as hell can't. Call it resentment, but I imagine there is a lot of sincerity, also, involved. It becomes a comparison of subjects and styles rather than a wholly artistic/technical evaluation. Jack --- Bruce Dayton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Now you are starting to see my complaint. I truly believe that a certain number of no votes will reject it and the judges will not see it. Basically, because the number of artists voting is much larger than the judges, you will always get a subset of them who will vote - luck of the draw on timing. So sometimes, a subset may overall reject a photo and sometimes accept it. That is why I was saying that the type of shooter may adversely effect the rejection. All of my wedding shots that were accepted were before the artist voting, since then, nothing has made it through. Go figure. I'm sure it has to be an amazing shot to get past all the artist voting - and maybe at this stage that is ok - there is quite a bit in the gallery now. -- Best regards, Bruce Saturday, September 1, 2007, 7:48:42 AM, you wrote: DS I don't know what the hell is going on. DS One of the shots I mentioned the other day that had been declined (the DS sunset shot), I resubmitted, and it has now been accepted. DS ??? DS Cheers, DS Dave DS On 9/1/07, John Sessoms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Kenneth Waller I seem to remember somewhere seeing that the judges will have the final say on accepted images. Kenneth Waller Yeah, peer voters can vote it in and the judges can vote it out. But can the judges vote it in if the peer voters vote it out? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
David Savage wrote: One of the shots I mentioned the other day that had been declined (the sunset shot), I resubmitted, and it has now been accepted. ??? This has happened to others as well. It happened to Doug Brewer, for one. And I might note that it happened long before the peer voting system was implemented, so it's clearly not related. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
Well stated, Godfrey. That' how I feel about the process as well. If someone feels strongly about the rejection of a particular image there's nothing to stop a resubmission. As a few of us have found out, it may be accepted the second time around. Cheers Brian ++ Brian Walters Western Sydney, Australia http://members.westnet.com.au/brianwal/SL/ http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/brianwalters Quoting Godfrey DiGiorgi [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I continue to be uncomfortable with voting on other people's submissions, and do not. I batch up 10-30 photos at a time, as mood and time permits, and upload them for review. The majority are declined, a few get in. They've accepted 23 of what must now be 140-180 submitted photos. How they select them, ultimately, is their business ... as with any other exhibition judging and curating. My business is to submit work that I am happy with and let them do their thing. I'm happy with the opportunity to have some of my work presented on their web gallery. Godfrey -- Finally - A spam blocker that actually works. http://www.bluebottle.com/tag/4 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
Too much work for me. I will submit one image now and then -- perhaps one every two weeks or so. But I don't have time to submit a large quantity of work. And I feel more comfortable editing my submissions down to a very few. Paul On Sep 1, 2007, at 6:12 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: I had a conversation with John Carlson a while back regards the Pentax Photo Gallery submission voting process because I had/have misgivings about it and am very uncomfortable. This is an excerpt from his reply: --- We are using the voting process to help limit the number of images we have to review. Even without promotion of the site, we are receiving more images than we can review with our current manpower. Once this site is openly promoted and advertised, the number of images submitted will only increase. We have no intention of making this an exclusive site with a limited number of photographers, but we also want the best images. Some images are declined automatically once they meet a certain criteria determined by Pentax. Currently, the thresholds are set extremely low. An image must have at least 20 votes, with less than 25% of those favorable, to be automatically declined. Unfortunately, this may lead to some good images being declined, but for the first two weeks we have had this system in place, the voters have been relatively accurate in their opinions. As we receive more images, and more voters, we can adjust the thresholds up or down to make sure we are looking at the best images. I imagine as the site is promoted and more artists are added, we will have to increase the thresholds. Ultimately, Pentax makes the final decision on images accepted to the gallery. It is still a matter of the judging committee looking at a large number of images, and selecting pictures that show the best of what Pentax equipment and photographers can do. There have been images that have received a large number of positive votes that we have declined, just as there has been images with few positive votes that we have accepted. --- I continue to be uncomfortable with voting on other people's submissions, and do not. I batch up 10-30 photos at a time, as mood and time permits, and upload them for review. The majority are declined, a few get in. They've accepted 23 of what must now be 140-180 submitted photos. How they select them, ultimately, is their business ... as with any other exhibition judging and curating. My business is to submit work that I am happy with and let them do their thing. I'm happy with the opportunity to have some of my work presented on their web gallery. Godfrey -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
Thanks for passing this on. I'm happy with the opportunity to have some of my work presented on their web gallery. Me too. Kenneth Waller http://tinyurl.com/272u2f - Original Message - From: Godfrey DiGiorgi [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery voting I had a conversation with John Carlson a while back regards the Pentax Photo Gallery submission voting process because I had/have misgivings about it and am very uncomfortable. This is an excerpt from his reply: --- We are using the voting process to help limit the number of images we have to review. Even without promotion of the site, we are receiving more images than we can review with our current manpower. Once this site is openly promoted and advertised, the number of images submitted will only increase. We have no intention of making this an exclusive site with a limited number of photographers, but we also want the best images. Some images are declined automatically once they meet a certain criteria determined by Pentax. Currently, the thresholds are set extremely low. An image must have at least 20 votes, with less than 25% of those favorable, to be automatically declined. Unfortunately, this may lead to some good images being declined, but for the first two weeks we have had this system in place, the voters have been relatively accurate in their opinions. As we receive more images, and more voters, we can adjust the thresholds up or down to make sure we are looking at the best images. I imagine as the site is promoted and more artists are added, we will have to increase the thresholds. Ultimately, Pentax makes the final decision on images accepted to the gallery. It is still a matter of the judging committee looking at a large number of images, and selecting pictures that show the best of what Pentax equipment and photographers can do. There have been images that have received a large number of positive votes that we have declined, just as there has been images with few positive votes that we have accepted. --- I continue to be uncomfortable with voting on other people's submissions, and do not. I batch up 10-30 photos at a time, as mood and time permits, and upload them for review. The majority are declined, a few get in. They've accepted 23 of what must now be 140-180 submitted photos. How they select them, ultimately, is their business ... as with any other exhibition judging and curating. My business is to submit work that I am happy with and let them do their thing. I'm happy with the opportunity to have some of my work presented on their web gallery. Godfrey -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
How important are the votes anyways? How many does a photograph need to be accepted or declined, or do the judges decide things? rg2 On 8/29/07, Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Noticing the titles seems to be an inadvertent thing for me. I don't try to avoid them and was just expressing my involuntary reaction. Jack --- Kenneth Waller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And I don't pay much attention to the titles. Kenneth Waller http://tinyurl.com/272u2f - Original Message - From: Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery voting Something that surprises me a bit is my dismay at many of the titles. I don't find myself reviewing the equipment as much as I would have expected. It seems the oblique nature of many titles portend the lack of experience or eye of the photographer and, in most cases, fail to add the needed drama. Jack --- Bruce Dayton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, obviously I am part of the problem - I'm one of those voting on the images. When voting, the images are presented somewhat as they are submitted. Quite a few times now, I have seen maybe 10-30 images all of a trip with some commentary much like you'd show travel photos to your friends. There might be one or two photos worth submitting to the gallery, but not all of them. Most of those I have seen like that were all shot with the kit lens or sometimes the DA 50-200. As these are the low priced lenses in the line, it stands to reason that someone either new to the Pentax line or new to photography would purchase and use them. Someone more seasoned would not submit that many similar images - only the real standouts. I guess another way to put it would be that when you notice the lens used is quite expensive, you have a notion that perhaps the photographer is more serious about their work - this is not always the case, but more often than someone shooting the kit lens. That is the explanation - it doesn't mean at all that a great photo can't be produced with either of those lenses - and I have seen quite a few great shots done with those lenses. But I have also seen a large percentage of shots done with those lenses submitted that didn't really cut the mustard. -- Best regards, Bruce -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
I believe the judges decide things with respect to those images that survive our voting. I don't imagine it takes very many yes votes to get it before the 'judges' for a final decision.(?) Jack --- Rebekah [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How important are the votes anyways? How many does a photograph need to be accepted or declined, or do the judges decide things? rg2 On 8/29/07, Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Noticing the titles seems to be an inadvertent thing for me. I don't try to avoid them and was just expressing my involuntary reaction. Jack --- Kenneth Waller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And I don't pay much attention to the titles. Kenneth Waller http://tinyurl.com/272u2f - Original Message - From: Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery voting Something that surprises me a bit is my dismay at many of the titles. I don't find myself reviewing the equipment as much as I would have expected. It seems the oblique nature of many titles portend the lack of experience or eye of the photographer and, in most cases, fail to add the needed drama. Jack --- Bruce Dayton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, obviously I am part of the problem - I'm one of those voting on the images. When voting, the images are presented somewhat as they are submitted. Quite a few times now, I have seen maybe 10-30 images all of a trip with some commentary much like you'd show travel photos to your friends. There might be one or two photos worth submitting to the gallery, but not all of them. Most of those I have seen like that were all shot with the kit lens or sometimes the DA 50-200. As these are the low priced lenses in the line, it stands to reason that someone either new to the Pentax line or new to photography would purchase and use them. Someone more seasoned would not submit that many similar images - only the real standouts. I guess another way to put it would be that when you notice the lens used is quite expensive, you have a notion that perhaps the photographer is more serious about their work - this is not always the case, but more often than someone shooting the kit lens. That is the explanation - it doesn't mean at all that a great photo can't be produced with either of those lenses - and I have seen quite a few great shots done with those lenses. But I have also seen a large percentage of shots done with those lenses submitted that didn't really cut the mustard. -- Best regards, Bruce -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=listsid=396545469 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
sounds logical to me, thanks :o) rg2 On 8/31/07, Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I believe the judges decide things with respect to those images that survive our voting. I don't imagine it takes very many yes votes to get it before the 'judges' for a final decision.(?) Jack --- Rebekah [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How important are the votes anyways? How many does a photograph need to be accepted or declined, or do the judges decide things? rg2 On 8/29/07, Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Noticing the titles seems to be an inadvertent thing for me. I don't try to avoid them and was just expressing my involuntary reaction. Jack --- Kenneth Waller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And I don't pay much attention to the titles. Kenneth Waller http://tinyurl.com/272u2f - Original Message - From: Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery voting Something that surprises me a bit is my dismay at many of the titles. I don't find myself reviewing the equipment as much as I would have expected. It seems the oblique nature of many titles portend the lack of experience or eye of the photographer and, in most cases, fail to add the needed drama. Jack --- Bruce Dayton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, obviously I am part of the problem - I'm one of those voting on the images. When voting, the images are presented somewhat as they are submitted. Quite a few times now, I have seen maybe 10-30 images all of a trip with some commentary much like you'd show travel photos to your friends. There might be one or two photos worth submitting to the gallery, but not all of them. Most of those I have seen like that were all shot with the kit lens or sometimes the DA 50-200. As these are the low priced lenses in the line, it stands to reason that someone either new to the Pentax line or new to photography would purchase and use them. Someone more seasoned would not submit that many similar images - only the real standouts. I guess another way to put it would be that when you notice the lens used is quite expensive, you have a notion that perhaps the photographer is more serious about their work - this is not always the case, but more often than someone shooting the kit lens. That is the explanation - it doesn't mean at all that a great photo can't be produced with either of those lenses - and I have seen quite a few great shots done with those lenses. But I have also seen a large percentage of shots done with those lenses submitted that didn't really cut the mustard. -- Best regards, Bruce -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=listsid=396545469 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
On 8/31/07, Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I believe the judges decide things with respect to those images that survive our voting. I don't imagine it takes very many yes votes to get it before the 'judges' for a final decision.(?) Since you seem to know so much, Jack... (anyone else can reply, I just happened to choose Jack's post to reply to) I only signed up this week - I think it was Tuesday or Wednesday that I submitted my Artist's Profile (har) and a few photos. By what others on this list have said, a few of my photos have been up for rating, so that's good. However, my Artist's Profile has yet to be approved. What's the usual turn-around time for acceptance and me being seen as An Official Pentax Photographer g. Anyone have any thoughts/experience in this? thanks, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
On 8/31/07, Godfrey DiGiorgi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip It took about six days for a recent update to my profile to be approved and posted. So it appears to be nothing personal then. I was worried that it was yet more anti-Canadianism... ;-) -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
On Aug 31, 2007, at 9:51 AM, frank theriault wrote: I only signed up this week - I think it was Tuesday or Wednesday that I submitted my Artist's Profile (har) and a few photos. By what others on this list have said, a few of my photos have been up for rating, so that's good. However, my Artist's Profile has yet to be approved. What's the usual turn-around time for acceptance and me being seen as An Official Pentax Photographer g. Anyone have any thoughts/experience in this? Several days to a couple of weeks in my experience, frank. It took about six days for a recent update to my profile to be approved and posted. Godfrey -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
Maybe it's personal, but not anti-Canadian? frank theriault wrote: On 8/31/07, Godfrey DiGiorgi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip It took about six days for a recent update to my profile to be approved and posted. So it appears to be nothing personal then. I was worried that it was yet more anti-Canadianism... ;-) -- Remember, it’s pillage then burn. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
On 8/31/07, P. J. Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe it's personal, but not anti-Canadian? I've never considered that option... ;-) -f -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
On 8/31/07, Doug Brewer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: we have to vote you in... I'm in big trouble then -frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
frank theriault wrote: However, my Artist's Profile has yet to be approved. What's the usual turn-around time for acceptance and me being seen as An Official Pentax Photographer g. Anyone have any thoughts/experience in this? thanks, frank we have to vote you in... -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
So the hypothetical question is - can enough no votes keep an image from being seen by the judges.? Kenneth Waller http://tinyurl.com/272u2f - Original Message - From: Rebekah [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery voting sounds logical to me, thanks :o) rg2 On 8/31/07, Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I believe the judges decide things with respect to those images that survive our voting. I don't imagine it takes very many yes votes to get it before the 'judges' for a final decision.(?) Jack --- Rebekah [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How important are the votes anyways? How many does a photograph need to be accepted or declined, or do the judges decide things? rg2 On 8/29/07, Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Noticing the titles seems to be an inadvertent thing for me. I don't try to avoid them and was just expressing my involuntary reaction. Jack --- Kenneth Waller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And I don't pay much attention to the titles. Kenneth Waller http://tinyurl.com/272u2f - Original Message - From: Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery voting Something that surprises me a bit is my dismay at many of the titles. I don't find myself reviewing the equipment as much as I would have expected. It seems the oblique nature of many titles portend the lack of experience or eye of the photographer and, in most cases, fail to add the needed drama. Jack --- Bruce Dayton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, obviously I am part of the problem - I'm one of those voting on the images. When voting, the images are presented somewhat as they are submitted. Quite a few times now, I have seen maybe 10-30 images all of a trip with some commentary much like you'd show travel photos to your friends. There might be one or two photos worth submitting to the gallery, but not all of them. Most of those I have seen like that were all shot with the kit lens or sometimes the DA 50-200. As these are the low priced lenses in the line, it stands to reason that someone either new to the Pentax line or new to photography would purchase and use them. Someone more seasoned would not submit that many similar images - only the real standouts. I guess another way to put it would be that when you notice the lens used is quite expensive, you have a notion that perhaps the photographer is more serious about their work - this is not always the case, but more often than someone shooting the kit lens. That is the explanation - it doesn't mean at all that a great photo can't be produced with either of those lenses - and I have seen quite a few great shots done with those lenses. But I have also seen a large percentage of shots done with those lenses submitted that didn't really cut the mustard. -- Best regards, Bruce -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=listsid=396545469 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
So the hypothetical question is - can enough no votes keep an image from being seen by the judges.? yes, and can enough yes votes override a judge's opinion? Overall, what is the weight of each vote, both standing alone as well as in comparison to the votes of the judge(s)? rg2 On 8/31/07, Kenneth Waller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So the hypothetical question is - can enough no votes keep an image from being seen by the judges.? Kenneth Waller http://tinyurl.com/272u2f - Original Message - From: Rebekah [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery voting sounds logical to me, thanks :o) rg2 On 8/31/07, Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I believe the judges decide things with respect to those images that survive our voting. I don't imagine it takes very many yes votes to get it before the 'judges' for a final decision.(?) Jack --- Rebekah [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How important are the votes anyways? How many does a photograph need to be accepted or declined, or do the judges decide things? rg2 On 8/29/07, Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Noticing the titles seems to be an inadvertent thing for me. I don't try to avoid them and was just expressing my involuntary reaction. Jack --- Kenneth Waller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And I don't pay much attention to the titles. Kenneth Waller http://tinyurl.com/272u2f - Original Message - From: Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery voting Something that surprises me a bit is my dismay at many of the titles. I don't find myself reviewing the equipment as much as I would have expected. It seems the oblique nature of many titles portend the lack of experience or eye of the photographer and, in most cases, fail to add the needed drama. Jack --- Bruce Dayton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, obviously I am part of the problem - I'm one of those voting on the images. When voting, the images are presented somewhat as they are submitted. Quite a few times now, I have seen maybe 10-30 images all of a trip with some commentary much like you'd show travel photos to your friends. There might be one or two photos worth submitting to the gallery, but not all of them. Most of those I have seen like that were all shot with the kit lens or sometimes the DA 50-200. As these are the low priced lenses in the line, it stands to reason that someone either new to the Pentax line or new to photography would purchase and use them. Someone more seasoned would not submit that many similar images - only the real standouts. I guess another way to put it would be that when you notice the lens used is quite expensive, you have a notion that perhaps the photographer is more serious about their work - this is not always the case, but more often than someone shooting the kit lens. That is the explanation - it doesn't mean at all that a great photo can't be produced with either of those lenses - and I have seen quite a few great shots done with those lenses. But I have also seen a large percentage of shots done with those lenses submitted that didn't really cut the mustard. -- Best regards, Bruce -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=listsid=396545469 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
I seem to remember somewhere seeing that the judges will have the final say on accepted images. Kenneth Waller http://tinyurl.com/272u2f - Original Message - From: Rebekah [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery voting So the hypothetical question is - can enough no votes keep an image from being seen by the judges.? yes, and can enough yes votes override a judge's opinion? Overall, what is the weight of each vote, both standing alone as well as in comparison to the votes of the judge(s)? rg2 On 8/31/07, Kenneth Waller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So the hypothetical question is - can enough no votes keep an image from being seen by the judges.? Kenneth Waller http://tinyurl.com/272u2f - Original Message - From: Rebekah [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery voting sounds logical to me, thanks :o) rg2 On 8/31/07, Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I believe the judges decide things with respect to those images that survive our voting. I don't imagine it takes very many yes votes to get it before the 'judges' for a final decision.(?) Jack --- Rebekah [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How important are the votes anyways? How many does a photograph need to be accepted or declined, or do the judges decide things? rg2 On 8/29/07, Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Noticing the titles seems to be an inadvertent thing for me. I don't try to avoid them and was just expressing my involuntary reaction. Jack --- Kenneth Waller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And I don't pay much attention to the titles. Kenneth Waller http://tinyurl.com/272u2f - Original Message - From: Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery voting Something that surprises me a bit is my dismay at many of the titles. I don't find myself reviewing the equipment as much as I would have expected. It seems the oblique nature of many titles portend the lack of experience or eye of the photographer and, in most cases, fail to add the needed drama. Jack --- Bruce Dayton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, obviously I am part of the problem - I'm one of those voting on the images. When voting, the images are presented somewhat as they are submitted. Quite a few times now, I have seen maybe 10-30 images all of a trip with some commentary much like you'd show travel photos to your friends. There might be one or two photos worth submitting to the gallery, but not all of them. Most of those I have seen like that were all shot with the kit lens or sometimes the DA 50-200. As these are the low priced lenses in the line, it stands to reason that someone either new to the Pentax line or new to photography would purchase and use them. Someone more seasoned would not submit that many similar images - only the real standouts. I guess another way to put it would be that when you notice the lens used is quite expensive, you have a notion that perhaps the photographer is more serious about their work - this is not always the case, but more often than someone shooting the kit lens. That is the explanation - it doesn't mean at all that a great photo can't be produced with either of those lenses - and I have seen quite a few great shots done with those lenses. But I have also seen a large percentage of shots done with those lenses submitted that didn't really cut the mustard. -- Best regards, Bruce -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
From: Rebekah [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery voting Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 19:28:41 -0400 So the hypothetical question is - can enough no votes keep an image from being seen by the judges.? yes, and can enough yes votes override a judge's opinion? Overall, what is the weight of each vote, both standing alone as well as in comparison to the votes of the judge(s)? rg2 Inquiring minds want to know. :-) Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
It was made clear, I think, in Pentaxs' instructions that the final say, either as a yes or no, would rest with the judges. It may simply be a matter of the balance of yes and no votes received by each image, having their influence on the judges..or not.(?) Jack --- Rebekah [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So the hypothetical question is - can enough no votes keep an image from being seen by the judges.? yes, and can enough yes votes override a judge's opinion? Overall, what is the weight of each vote, both standing alone as well as in comparison to the votes of the judge(s)? rg2 On 8/31/07, Kenneth Waller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So the hypothetical question is - can enough no votes keep an image from being seen by the judges.? Kenneth Waller http://tinyurl.com/272u2f - Original Message - From: Rebekah [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery voting sounds logical to me, thanks :o) rg2 On 8/31/07, Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I believe the judges decide things with respect to those images that survive our voting. I don't imagine it takes very many yes votes to get it before the 'judges' for a final decision.(?) Jack --- Rebekah [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How important are the votes anyways? How many does a photograph need to be accepted or declined, or do the judges decide things? rg2 On 8/29/07, Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Noticing the titles seems to be an inadvertent thing for me. I don't try to avoid them and was just expressing my involuntary reaction. Jack --- Kenneth Waller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And I don't pay much attention to the titles. Kenneth Waller http://tinyurl.com/272u2f - Original Message - From: Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery voting Something that surprises me a bit is my dismay at many of the titles. I don't find myself reviewing the equipment as much as I would have expected. It seems the oblique nature of many titles portend the lack of experience or eye of the photographer and, in most cases, fail to add the needed drama. Jack --- Bruce Dayton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, obviously I am part of the problem - I'm one of those voting on the images. When voting, the images are presented somewhat as they are submitted. Quite a few times now, I have seen maybe 10-30 images all of a trip with some commentary much like you'd show travel photos to your friends. There might be one or two photos worth submitting to the gallery, but not all of them. Most of those I have seen like that were all shot with the kit lens or sometimes the DA 50-200. As these are the low priced lenses in the line, it stands to reason that someone either new to the Pentax line or new to photography would purchase and use them. Someone more seasoned would not submit that many similar images - only the real standouts. I guess another way to put it would be that when you notice the lens used is quite expensive, you have a notion that perhaps the photographer is more serious about their work - this is not always the case, but more often than someone shooting the kit lens. That is the explanation - it doesn't mean at all that a great photo can't be produced with either of those lenses - and I have seen quite a few great shots done with those lenses. But I have also seen a large percentage of shots done with those lenses submitted that didn't really cut the mustard. -- Best regards, Bruce -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=listsid=396545469 -- PDML
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
I believe it can - In fact, I think the no votes are the ones that the whole program was set up for. They are really wanting us to weed out the stuff that just isn't even close. Whether it is done on a percentage of no votes or a hard and fast # or what, I think enough no votes gets it kicked out. I've had a couple kicked out extremely fast compared to the normal turn around time of the judges - a matter of a few hours. -- Bruce Friday, August 31, 2007, 4:15:00 PM, you wrote: KW So the hypothetical question is - can enough no votes keep an image from KW being seen by the judges.? KW Kenneth Waller KW http://tinyurl.com/272u2f KW - Original Message - KW From: Rebekah [EMAIL PROTECTED] KW Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery voting sounds logical to me, thanks :o) rg2 On 8/31/07, Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I believe the judges decide things with respect to those images that survive our voting. I don't imagine it takes very many yes votes to get it before the 'judges' for a final decision.(?) Jack --- Rebekah [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How important are the votes anyways? How many does a photograph need to be accepted or declined, or do the judges decide things? rg2 On 8/29/07, Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Noticing the titles seems to be an inadvertent thing for me. I don't try to avoid them and was just expressing my involuntary reaction. Jack --- Kenneth Waller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And I don't pay much attention to the titles. Kenneth Waller http://tinyurl.com/272u2f - Original Message - From: Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery voting Something that surprises me a bit is my dismay at many of the titles. I don't find myself reviewing the equipment as much as I would have expected. It seems the oblique nature of many titles portend the lack of experience or eye of the photographer and, in most cases, fail to add the needed drama. Jack --- Bruce Dayton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, obviously I am part of the problem - I'm one of those voting on the images. When voting, the images are presented somewhat as they are submitted. Quite a few times now, I have seen maybe 10-30 images all of a trip with some commentary much like you'd show travel photos to your friends. There might be one or two photos worth submitting to the gallery, but not all of them. Most of those I have seen like that were all shot with the kit lens or sometimes the DA 50-200. As these are the low priced lenses in the line, it stands to reason that someone either new to the Pentax line or new to photography would purchase and use them. Someone more seasoned would not submit that many similar images - only the real standouts. I guess another way to put it would be that when you notice the lens used is quite expensive, you have a notion that perhaps the photographer is more serious about their work - this is not always the case, but more often than someone shooting the kit lens. That is the explanation - it doesn't mean at all that a great photo can't be produced with either of those lenses - and I have seen quite a few great shots done with those lenses. But I have also seen a large percentage of shots done with those lenses submitted that didn't really cut the mustard. -- Best regards, Bruce -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=listsid=396545469 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
Well, if I were judging I'd have accepted them. However, who am I to judge what's good and what's not. Of the last six I submitted, 5 were declined and the one that was accepted was a re-submit of one previously rejected (with only a bit of slight 'tweaking'). Still, I like the challenge so I'll keep submitting. Cheers Brian ++ Brian Walters Western Sydney, Australia http://members.westnet.com.au/brianwal/SL/ http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/brianwalters Quoting David Savage [EMAIL PROTECTED]: At 03:14 AM 29/08/2007, Bruce Dayton wrote: Probably just my own complaining, but I do continue to see a large slant towards outdoor (scenic) and street photography. snip I've just now decided to give up on the gallery. 2 of my better efforts were recently rejected: http://www.arach.net.au/~savage/PESO/peso_030.htm http://www.arach.net.au/~savage/Misc/Images/K10D/_IGP4086.jpg I can't do much better than that. -- Get a free email address with REAL anti-spam protection. http://www.bluebottle.com/tag/1 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
I'm surprised these were rejected. Good work. Paul On Aug 29, 2007, at 2:19 AM, Brian Walters wrote: Well, if I were judging I'd have accepted them. However, who am I to judge what's good and what's not. Of the last six I submitted, 5 were declined and the one that was accepted was a re-submit of one previously rejected (with only a bit of slight 'tweaking'). Still, I like the challenge so I'll keep submitting. Cheers Brian ++ Brian Walters Western Sydney, Australia http://members.westnet.com.au/brianwal/SL/ http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/brianwalters Quoting David Savage [EMAIL PROTECTED]: At 03:14 AM 29/08/2007, Bruce Dayton wrote: Probably just my own complaining, but I do continue to see a large slant towards outdoor (scenic) and street photography. snip I've just now decided to give up on the gallery. 2 of my better efforts were recently rejected: http://www.arach.net.au/~savage/PESO/peso_030.htm http://www.arach.net.au/~savage/Misc/Images/K10D/_IGP4086.jpg I can't do much better than that. -- Get a free email address with REAL anti-spam protection. http://www.bluebottle.com/tag/1 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
Me too. :-) Thanks Paul. Cheers, Dave On 8/29/07, Paul Stenquist [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm surprised these were rejected. Good work. Paul -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
On 8/29/07, Brian Walters [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, if I were judging I'd have accepted them. Thanks Brian :-) However, who am I to judge what's good and what's not. Of the last six I submitted, 5 were declined and the one that was accepted was a re-submit of one previously rejected (with only a bit of slight 'tweaking'). Maybe I'll have another go. Still, I like the challenge so I'll keep submitting. You're a bit masochistic aren't you? :-) Cheers, Dave -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
I was feeling a bit pi55sy when I wrote that. It's their (Pentax's) gallery and they're free to select what they want. But as you say I'd prefer it if they were doing the judging not the participents. Cheers, Dave On 8/29/07, Bruce Dayton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My complaint has nothing to do with the gallery judges - it is with us artists. Each of us has biases and things that interest us. So our voting can be very lopsided - and that can preclude pictures from ever being reviewed by the judges who might actually be more even handed. So here I am a wedding/portrait/flora and landscape oriented shooter who is voting on some street or concert submissions. My interests may cause me to be less caring about images submitted in other categories. And there may be some voters who aren't very qualified to vote either - not that I am. Ideally, it would be nice if they could have the artists vote on lots of shots and then have the judges vote on the same shots. Those that show similar picks to what the judges like would be best for voting. Of course that would take lots more time initially. -- Bruce -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
From: Bruce Dayton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2007/08/28 Tue PM 08:26:32 GMT To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery voting I only say that because I see so many travel photos put up with those two lenses, and I am wondering just what those people are thinking. I don't understand what you are trying to say. Can you elucidate? - Email sent from www.virginmedia.com/email Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software and scanned for spam -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
Quite frankly, I think the entire process of peer judging is fatally flawed. If Pentax wants to have a judged gallery, then they should be judging the thing themselves, with qualified judges, not passing on the responsibility to people of questionable or no qualification regarding judging of photographs. William Robb That's what I think. And a person's working for Pentax does not in and of itself qualify them to be a good judge. Everyone likes a pretty picture, but there have been plenty admitted that are not winners, IMO, and others excluded that could be. Probably no different than any other gallery or contest in the end. It still can be frustrating though. I personally dislike the idea of giving my photos away for free to subsidize what is essentially a Pentax advertisement. Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
Nikon's for me.:-) Dave On 8/28/07, Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm discriminating against Pentax by not sending them any more photos. I'm posting them on Canon's gallery. :- Tom C. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery voting Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 19:39:16 + It's obvious you're being discriminated against. You have a mere 50 pics on the site:-)) !!! -- Original message -- From: Bruce Dayton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Probably just my own complaining, but I do continue to see a large slant towards outdoor (scenic) and street photography. One real downside to 'artists' voting before the judges even get a crack at it, is those biases can come out. For example, after seeing about 400 dragonflies and butterflies I tend to be a little harsher in my judgements. I also tend to be a little critical of photos of art - statues, paintings, etc. As near as I can tell from timing of acceptance/rejection, it appears that there is a tally of votes on a photo - when it reaches a threshold of either accept or reject, the photo is taken out of the voting. The rejects are simply rejected without judge intervention and the accepted are then put on hold (not actual status) waiting for the judges to decide. So technically excellent studio or wedding work will largely go unnoticed unless it involves a beautiful girl. Case in point - I had submitted the recent bridal portrait shot I show here, prior to showing on the list. It was rejected within hours - which would indicate the judges had not even seen it (the judges take much longer to get to a photo than that - usually days). I then showed it on list here and got a very strong positive response to it from people I would consider pretty critical. So I decided to resubmit it to see what would happen. This time it took a little longer to reject, but it did get rejected in a time frame that would lead me to believe the judges did not see it. I guess the real problem with a gallery like that is no one wants to see quality work of other humans unless then know them. Since they don't know them, it needs to be more like a NG shot of a beggar or a small child which all of us relate to. Anyway, just some thoughts. -- Bruce -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- Equine Photography www.caughtinmotion.com http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/ Ontario Canada -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
Well, obviously I am part of the problem - I'm one of those voting on the images. When voting, the images are presented somewhat as they are submitted. Quite a few times now, I have seen maybe 10-30 images all of a trip with some commentary much like you'd show travel photos to your friends. There might be one or two photos worth submitting to the gallery, but not all of them. Most of those I have seen like that were all shot with the kit lens or sometimes the DA 50-200. As these are the low priced lenses in the line, it stands to reason that someone either new to the Pentax line or new to photography would purchase and use them. Someone more seasoned would not submit that many similar images - only the real standouts. I guess another way to put it would be that when you notice the lens used is quite expensive, you have a notion that perhaps the photographer is more serious about their work - this is not always the case, but more often than someone shooting the kit lens. That is the explanation - it doesn't mean at all that a great photo can't be produced with either of those lenses - and I have seen quite a few great shots done with those lenses. But I have also seen a large percentage of shots done with those lenses submitted that didn't really cut the mustard. -- Best regards, Bruce Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 6:30:34 AM, you wrote: From: Bruce Dayton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2007/08/28 Tue PM 08:26:32 GMT To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery voting I only say that because I see so many travel photos put up with those two lenses, and I am wondering just what those people are thinking. mw I don't understand what you are trying to say. Can you elucidate? mw - mw Email sent from www.virginmedia.com/email mw Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software and scanned for spam -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
Something that surprises me a bit is my dismay at many of the titles. I don't find myself reviewing the equipment as much as I would have expected. It seems the oblique nature of many titles portend the lack of experience or eye of the photographer and, in most cases, fail to add the needed drama. Jack --- Bruce Dayton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, obviously I am part of the problem - I'm one of those voting on the images. When voting, the images are presented somewhat as they are submitted. Quite a few times now, I have seen maybe 10-30 images all of a trip with some commentary much like you'd show travel photos to your friends. There might be one or two photos worth submitting to the gallery, but not all of them. Most of those I have seen like that were all shot with the kit lens or sometimes the DA 50-200. As these are the low priced lenses in the line, it stands to reason that someone either new to the Pentax line or new to photography would purchase and use them. Someone more seasoned would not submit that many similar images - only the real standouts. I guess another way to put it would be that when you notice the lens used is quite expensive, you have a notion that perhaps the photographer is more serious about their work - this is not always the case, but more often than someone shooting the kit lens. That is the explanation - it doesn't mean at all that a great photo can't be produced with either of those lenses - and I have seen quite a few great shots done with those lenses. But I have also seen a large percentage of shots done with those lenses submitted that didn't really cut the mustard. -- Best regards, Bruce Wednesday, August 29, 2007, 6:30:34 AM, you wrote: From: Bruce Dayton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2007/08/28 Tue PM 08:26:32 GMT To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery voting I only say that because I see so many travel photos put up with those two lenses, and I am wondering just what those people are thinking. mw I don't understand what you are trying to say. Can you elucidate? mw - mw Email sent from www.virginmedia.com/email mw Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software and scanned for spam -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
From: Bruce Dayton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Well, obviously I am part of the problem - I'm one of those voting on the images. When voting, the images are presented somewhat as they are submitted. Quite a few times now, I have seen maybe 10-30 images all of a trip with some commentary much like you'd show travel photos to your friends. There might be one or two photos worth submitting to the gallery, but not all of them. Most of those I have seen like that were all shot with the kit lens or sometimes the DA 50-200. As these are the low priced lenses in the line, it stands to reason that someone either new to the Pentax line or new to photography would purchase and use them. Not necessarially. A great number of my shots that people have liked here and elsewhere are with the FA 28-200. A cheapo by all standards. I've had it for 10 years. Sometime it happens to be the lens on the camera or the only suitable lens I have with me at the time. Someone more seasoned would not submit that many similar images - only the real standouts. That's true. I guess another way to put it would be that when you notice the lens used is quite expensive, you have a notion that perhaps the photographer is more serious about their work - this is not always the case, but more often than someone shooting the kit lens. That is the explanation - it doesn't mean at all that a great photo can't be produced with either of those lenses - and I have seen quite a few great shots done with those lenses. But I have also seen a large percentage of shots done with those lenses submitted that didn't really cut the mustard. -- Best regards, Bruce We essentially agree, I'm sure. It's just that if you didn't know what lens(es) was/were used, you wouldn't have this perception. You'd just be judging the photo on it's own merits. Nor does it relate to how serious one is about their work. I have the 43/1.9 LTD and 31/1.8 LTD lenses. Spending money being serious. The fact that I use the FA 28-200 or Tamron 28-300 does not make me less serious about my work. I understand what you mean though. :-) Tom -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
David J Brooks wrote: On 8/28/07, Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm discriminating against Pentax by not sending them any more photos. I'm posting them on Canon's gallery. :- Nikon's for me.:-) I'm defecting to the Holga gallery. Anyone got the URL? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
Mark Roberts wrote: David J Brooks wrote: On 8/28/07, Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm discriminating against Pentax by not sending them any more photos. I'm posting them on Canon's gallery. :- Nikon's for me.:-) I'm defecting to the Holga gallery. Anyone got the URL? http://flickr.com/groups/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ Have fun! -- Scott Loveless http://www.twosixteen.com/fivetoedsloth/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
Bruce Dayton wrote: Well, obviously I am part of the problem - I'm one of those voting on the images. When voting, the images are presented somewhat as they are submitted. Quite a few times now, I have seen maybe 10-30 images all of a trip with some commentary much like you'd show travel photos to your friends. There might be one or two photos worth submitting to the gallery, but not all of them. Most of those I have seen like that were all shot with the kit lens or sometimes the DA 50-200. As these are the low priced lenses in the line, it stands to reason that someone either new to the Pentax line or new to photography would purchase and use them. Someone more seasoned would not submit that many similar images - only the real standouts. I guess another way to put it would be that when you notice the lens used is quite expensive, you have a notion that perhaps the photographer is more serious about their work - this is not always the case, but more often than someone shooting the kit lens. That is the explanation - it doesn't mean at all that a great photo can't be produced with either of those lenses - and I have seen quite a few great shots done with those lenses. But I have also seen a large percentage of shots done with those lenses submitted that didn't really cut the mustard. Thanks. It wasn't clear to me that you were writing about one person putting up a number of pictures - I thought you were saying that, despite the large number of pictures shown, you didn't think the lenses were any good for that job. I think I disagree with you - I know many people who could outshoot me with an Espio. It's _not_ the equipment. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
And I don't pay much attention to the titles. Kenneth Waller http://tinyurl.com/272u2f - Original Message - From: Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery voting Something that surprises me a bit is my dismay at many of the titles. I don't find myself reviewing the equipment as much as I would have expected. It seems the oblique nature of many titles portend the lack of experience or eye of the photographer and, in most cases, fail to add the needed drama. Jack --- Bruce Dayton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, obviously I am part of the problem - I'm one of those voting on the images. When voting, the images are presented somewhat as they are submitted. Quite a few times now, I have seen maybe 10-30 images all of a trip with some commentary much like you'd show travel photos to your friends. There might be one or two photos worth submitting to the gallery, but not all of them. Most of those I have seen like that were all shot with the kit lens or sometimes the DA 50-200. As these are the low priced lenses in the line, it stands to reason that someone either new to the Pentax line or new to photography would purchase and use them. Someone more seasoned would not submit that many similar images - only the real standouts. I guess another way to put it would be that when you notice the lens used is quite expensive, you have a notion that perhaps the photographer is more serious about their work - this is not always the case, but more often than someone shooting the kit lens. That is the explanation - it doesn't mean at all that a great photo can't be produced with either of those lenses - and I have seen quite a few great shots done with those lenses. But I have also seen a large percentage of shots done with those lenses submitted that didn't really cut the mustard. -- Best regards, Bruce -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
Noticing the titles seems to be an inadvertent thing for me. I don't try to avoid them and was just expressing my involuntary reaction. Jack --- Kenneth Waller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And I don't pay much attention to the titles. Kenneth Waller http://tinyurl.com/272u2f - Original Message - From: Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery voting Something that surprises me a bit is my dismay at many of the titles. I don't find myself reviewing the equipment as much as I would have expected. It seems the oblique nature of many titles portend the lack of experience or eye of the photographer and, in most cases, fail to add the needed drama. Jack --- Bruce Dayton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, obviously I am part of the problem - I'm one of those voting on the images. When voting, the images are presented somewhat as they are submitted. Quite a few times now, I have seen maybe 10-30 images all of a trip with some commentary much like you'd show travel photos to your friends. There might be one or two photos worth submitting to the gallery, but not all of them. Most of those I have seen like that were all shot with the kit lens or sometimes the DA 50-200. As these are the low priced lenses in the line, it stands to reason that someone either new to the Pentax line or new to photography would purchase and use them. Someone more seasoned would not submit that many similar images - only the real standouts. I guess another way to put it would be that when you notice the lens used is quite expensive, you have a notion that perhaps the photographer is more serious about their work - this is not always the case, but more often than someone shooting the kit lens. That is the explanation - it doesn't mean at all that a great photo can't be produced with either of those lenses - and I have seen quite a few great shots done with those lenses. But I have also seen a large percentage of shots done with those lenses submitted that didn't really cut the mustard. -- Best regards, Bruce -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
I quit submitting quite a while ago. I think I only put up one shot since the peer judging was introduced. It was one that had previously been accepted but that I had felt a need to edit. It was promptly rejected. I'm okay with what I have now ( even the dragonfly:-), so I doubt that I'll try again. Too time consuming. Paul -- Original message -- From: Bruce Dayton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Probably just my own complaining, but I do continue to see a large slant towards outdoor (scenic) and street photography. One real downside to 'artists' voting before the judges even get a crack at it, is those biases can come out. For example, after seeing about 400 dragonflies and butterflies I tend to be a little harsher in my judgements. I also tend to be a little critical of photos of art - statues, paintings, etc. As near as I can tell from timing of acceptance/rejection, it appears that there is a tally of votes on a photo - when it reaches a threshold of either accept or reject, the photo is taken out of the voting. The rejects are simply rejected without judge intervention and the accepted are then put on hold (not actual status) waiting for the judges to decide. So technically excellent studio or wedding work will largely go unnoticed unless it involves a beautiful girl. Case in point - I had submitted the recent bridal portrait shot I show here, prior to showing on the list. It was rejected within hours - which would indicate the judges had not even seen it (the judges take much longer to get to a photo than that - usually days). I then showed it on list here and got a very strong positive response to it from people I would consider pretty critical. So I decided to resubmit it to see what would happen. This time it took a little longer to reject, but it did get rejected in a time frame that would lead me to believe the judges did not see it. I guess the real problem with a gallery like that is no one wants to see quality work of other humans unless then know them. Since they don't know them, it needs to be more like a NG shot of a beggar or a small child which all of us relate to. Anyway, just some thoughts. -- Bruce -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
It's obvious you're being discriminated against. You have a mere 50 pics on the site:-)) !!! -- Original message -- From: Bruce Dayton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Probably just my own complaining, but I do continue to see a large slant towards outdoor (scenic) and street photography. One real downside to 'artists' voting before the judges even get a crack at it, is those biases can come out. For example, after seeing about 400 dragonflies and butterflies I tend to be a little harsher in my judgements. I also tend to be a little critical of photos of art - statues, paintings, etc. As near as I can tell from timing of acceptance/rejection, it appears that there is a tally of votes on a photo - when it reaches a threshold of either accept or reject, the photo is taken out of the voting. The rejects are simply rejected without judge intervention and the accepted are then put on hold (not actual status) waiting for the judges to decide. So technically excellent studio or wedding work will largely go unnoticed unless it involves a beautiful girl. Case in point - I had submitted the recent bridal portrait shot I show here, prior to showing on the list. It was rejected within hours - which would indicate the judges had not even seen it (the judges take much longer to get to a photo than that - usually days). I then showed it on list here and got a very strong positive response to it from people I would consider pretty critical. So I decided to resubmit it to see what would happen. This time it took a little longer to reject, but it did get rejected in a time frame that would lead me to believe the judges did not see it. I guess the real problem with a gallery like that is no one wants to see quality work of other humans unless then know them. Since they don't know them, it needs to be more like a NG shot of a beggar or a small child which all of us relate to. Anyway, just some thoughts. -- Bruce -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
I'm discriminating against Pentax by not sending them any more photos. I'm posting them on Canon's gallery. :- Tom C. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery voting Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 19:39:16 + It's obvious you're being discriminated against. You have a mere 50 pics on the site:-)) !!! -- Original message -- From: Bruce Dayton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Probably just my own complaining, but I do continue to see a large slant towards outdoor (scenic) and street photography. One real downside to 'artists' voting before the judges even get a crack at it, is those biases can come out. For example, after seeing about 400 dragonflies and butterflies I tend to be a little harsher in my judgements. I also tend to be a little critical of photos of art - statues, paintings, etc. As near as I can tell from timing of acceptance/rejection, it appears that there is a tally of votes on a photo - when it reaches a threshold of either accept or reject, the photo is taken out of the voting. The rejects are simply rejected without judge intervention and the accepted are then put on hold (not actual status) waiting for the judges to decide. So technically excellent studio or wedding work will largely go unnoticed unless it involves a beautiful girl. Case in point - I had submitted the recent bridal portrait shot I show here, prior to showing on the list. It was rejected within hours - which would indicate the judges had not even seen it (the judges take much longer to get to a photo than that - usually days). I then showed it on list here and got a very strong positive response to it from people I would consider pretty critical. So I decided to resubmit it to see what would happen. This time it took a little longer to reject, but it did get rejected in a time frame that would lead me to believe the judges did not see it. I guess the real problem with a gallery like that is no one wants to see quality work of other humans unless then know them. Since they don't know them, it needs to be more like a NG shot of a beggar or a small child which all of us relate to. Anyway, just some thoughts. -- Bruce -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
I've decided to cast my vote based on lens grin - if it is the kit lens or the 50-200, automatic reject. Just kidding... I only say that because I see so many travel photos put up with those two lenses, and I am wondering just what those people are thinking. Honestly, It would be nice if you could be judged somewhat against yourself - that way, beginning photographers would have something to show - but I'm sure that Pentax wants this to be the best of the best so that it is a true showcase. -- Bruce Tuesday, August 28, 2007, 12:30:49 PM, you wrote: pcn I quit submitting quite a while ago. I think I only put up pcn one shot since the peer judging was introduced. It was one that pcn had previously been accepted but that I had felt a need to edit. pcn It was promptly rejected. I'm okay with what I have now ( even pcn the dragonfly:-), so I doubt that I'll try again. Too time pcn consuming. pcn Paul pcn -- Original message -- pcn From: Bruce Dayton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Probably just my own complaining, but I do continue to see a large slant towards outdoor (scenic) and street photography. One real downside to 'artists' voting before the judges even get a crack at it, is those biases can come out. For example, after seeing about 400 dragonflies and butterflies I tend to be a little harsher in my judgements. I also tend to be a little critical of photos of art - statues, paintings, etc. As near as I can tell from timing of acceptance/rejection, it appears that there is a tally of votes on a photo - when it reaches a threshold of either accept or reject, the photo is taken out of the voting. The rejects are simply rejected without judge intervention and the accepted are then put on hold (not actual status) waiting for the judges to decide. So technically excellent studio or wedding work will largely go unnoticed unless it involves a beautiful girl. Case in point - I had submitted the recent bridal portrait shot I show here, prior to showing on the list. It was rejected within hours - which would indicate the judges had not even seen it (the judges take much longer to get to a photo than that - usually days). I then showed it on list here and got a very strong positive response to it from people I would consider pretty critical. So I decided to resubmit it to see what would happen. This time it took a little longer to reject, but it did get rejected in a time frame that would lead me to believe the judges did not see it. I guess the real problem with a gallery like that is no one wants to see quality work of other humans unless then know them. Since they don't know them, it needs to be more like a NG shot of a beggar or a small child which all of us relate to. Anyway, just some thoughts. -- Bruce -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
You too:-) -- Original message -- From: Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'm discriminating against Pentax by not sending them any more photos. I'm posting them on Canon's gallery. :- Tom C. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery voting Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 19:39:16 + It's obvious you're being discriminated against. You have a mere 50 pics on the site:-)) !!! -- Original message -- From: Bruce Dayton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Probably just my own complaining, but I do continue to see a large slant towards outdoor (scenic) and street photography. One real downside to 'artists' voting before the judges even get a crack at it, is those biases can come out. For example, after seeing about 400 dragonflies and butterflies I tend to be a little harsher in my judgements. I also tend to be a little critical of photos of art - statues, paintings, etc. As near as I can tell from timing of acceptance/rejection, it appears that there is a tally of votes on a photo - when it reaches a threshold of either accept or reject, the photo is taken out of the voting. The rejects are simply rejected without judge intervention and the accepted are then put on hold (not actual status) waiting for the judges to decide. So technically excellent studio or wedding work will largely go unnoticed unless it involves a beautiful girl. Case in point - I had submitted the recent bridal portrait shot I show here, prior to showing on the list. It was rejected within hours - which would indicate the judges had not even seen it (the judges take much longer to get to a photo than that - usually days). I then showed it on list here and got a very strong positive response to it from people I would consider pretty critical. So I decided to resubmit it to see what would happen. This time it took a little longer to reject, but it did get rejected in a time frame that would lead me to believe the judges did not see it. I guess the real problem with a gallery like that is no one wants to see quality work of other humans unless then know them. Since they don't know them, it needs to be more like a NG shot of a beggar or a small child which all of us relate to. Anyway, just some thoughts. -- Bruce -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
C'on now, Tom. Keep shooting and don't get discouraged. (don't statements like that make you just gag)? Maybe your earlier accepted images simply raised the bar too high. (no smiley..notice0.(?) Mr Sprat --- Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm discriminating against Pentax by not sending them any more photos. I'm posting them on Canon's gallery. :- Tom C. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery voting Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 19:39:16 + It's obvious you're being discriminated against. You have a mere 50 pics on the site:-)) !!! -- Original message -- From: Bruce Dayton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Probably just my own complaining, but I do continue to see a large slant towards outdoor (scenic) and street photography. One real downside to 'artists' voting before the judges even get a crack at it, is those biases can come out. For example, after seeing about 400 dragonflies and butterflies I tend to be a little harsher in my judgements. I also tend to be a little critical of photos of art - statues, paintings, etc. As near as I can tell from timing of acceptance/rejection, it appears that there is a tally of votes on a photo - when it reaches a threshold of either accept or reject, the photo is taken out of the voting. The rejects are simply rejected without judge intervention and the accepted are then put on hold (not actual status) waiting for the judges to decide. So technically excellent studio or wedding work will largely go unnoticed unless it involves a beautiful girl. Case in point - I had submitted the recent bridal portrait shot I show here, prior to showing on the list. It was rejected within hours - which would indicate the judges had not even seen it (the judges take much longer to get to a photo than that - usually days). I then showed it on list here and got a very strong positive response to it from people I would consider pretty critical. So I decided to resubmit it to see what would happen. This time it took a little longer to reject, but it did get rejected in a time frame that would lead me to believe the judges did not see it. I guess the real problem with a gallery like that is no one wants to see quality work of other humans unless then know them. Since they don't know them, it needs to be more like a NG shot of a beggar or a small child which all of us relate to. Anyway, just some thoughts. -- Bruce -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. http://farechase.yahoo.com/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
Yes and about 48 of them were before the new voting system. I used to have a hit percent of near 50% - now it is about 5% -- Bruce Tuesday, August 28, 2007, 12:39:16 PM, you wrote: pcn It's obvious you're being discriminated against. You have a pcn mere 50 pics on the site:-)) !!! pcn -- Original message -- pcn From: Bruce Dayton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Probably just my own complaining, but I do continue to see a large slant towards outdoor (scenic) and street photography. One real downside to 'artists' voting before the judges even get a crack at it, is those biases can come out. For example, after seeing about 400 dragonflies and butterflies I tend to be a little harsher in my judgements. I also tend to be a little critical of photos of art - statues, paintings, etc. As near as I can tell from timing of acceptance/rejection, it appears that there is a tally of votes on a photo - when it reaches a threshold of either accept or reject, the photo is taken out of the voting. The rejects are simply rejected without judge intervention and the accepted are then put on hold (not actual status) waiting for the judges to decide. So technically excellent studio or wedding work will largely go unnoticed unless it involves a beautiful girl. Case in point - I had submitted the recent bridal portrait shot I show here, prior to showing on the list. It was rejected within hours - which would indicate the judges had not even seen it (the judges take much longer to get to a photo than that - usually days). I then showed it on list here and got a very strong positive response to it from people I would consider pretty critical. So I decided to resubmit it to see what would happen. This time it took a little longer to reject, but it did get rejected in a time frame that would lead me to believe the judges did not see it. I guess the real problem with a gallery like that is no one wants to see quality work of other humans unless then know them. Since they don't know them, it needs to be more like a NG shot of a beggar or a small child which all of us relate to. Anyway, just some thoughts. -- Bruce -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
Bruce Dayton wrote: I've decided to cast my vote based on lens grin - if it is the kit lens or the 50-200, automatic reject. Just kidding... I only say that because I see so many travel photos put up with those two lenses, and I am wondering just what those people are thinking. Honestly, It would be nice if you could be judged somewhat against yourself - that way, beginning photographers would have something to show - but I'm sure that Pentax wants this to be the best of the best so that it is a true showcase. I think that one of the two best photo's I ever took with my Pentax kit was shot with a *istD and 18-55 DA. The other was with a K100D and 16-45 DA (miss that lens more than the camera). -Adam -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
As near as I can tell from timing of acceptance/rejection, it appears that there is a tally of votes on a photo - when it reaches a threshold of either accept or reject, the photo is taken out of the voting. I think you're reading more into the process than there is IMHO. My experience is different. I've had images waiting for review for days I've had images reviewed in a matter of hours. I've also voted on the same image more than once. I guess the real problem with a gallery like that is no one wants to see quality work of other humans unless then know them. Not sure I understand that statement as it relates to this gallery. I do seem to get more submitted images rejected lately tho, but I thought it might be their attempt to limit the number posted. For me it seems they have definitely raised the bar no matter what the mechanism. Kenneth Waller http://tinyurl.com/272u2f - Original Message - From: Bruce Dayton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Pentax Gallery voting Probably just my own complaining, but I do continue to see a large slant towards outdoor (scenic) and street photography. One real downside to 'artists' voting before the judges even get a crack at it, is those biases can come out. For example, after seeing about 400 dragonflies and butterflies I tend to be a little harsher in my judgements. I also tend to be a little critical of photos of art - statues, paintings, etc. As near as I can tell from timing of acceptance/rejection, it appears that there is a tally of votes on a photo - when it reaches a threshold of either accept or reject, the photo is taken out of the voting. The rejects are simply rejected without judge intervention and the accepted are then put on hold (not actual status) waiting for the judges to decide. So technically excellent studio or wedding work will largely go unnoticed unless it involves a beautiful girl. Case in point - I had submitted the recent bridal portrait shot I show here, prior to showing on the list. It was rejected within hours - which would indicate the judges had not even seen it (the judges take much longer to get to a photo than that - usually days). I then showed it on list here and got a very strong positive response to it from people I would consider pretty critical. So I decided to resubmit it to see what would happen. This time it took a little longer to reject, but it did get rejected in a time frame that would lead me to believe the judges did not see it. I guess the real problem with a gallery like that is no one wants to see quality work of other humans unless then know them. Since they don't know them, it needs to be more like a NG shot of a beggar or a small child which all of us relate to. Anyway, just some thoughts. -- Bruce -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
If they've raised the bar, they should go back and review all images in the gallery with the new standard then... IMHO. Tom C. From: Kenneth Waller [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery voting Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 17:09:23 -0400 As near as I can tell from timing of acceptance/rejection, it appears that there is a tally of votes on a photo - when it reaches a threshold of either accept or reject, the photo is taken out of the voting. I think you're reading more into the process than there is IMHO. My experience is different. I've had images waiting for review for days I've had images reviewed in a matter of hours. I've also voted on the same image more than once. I guess the real problem with a gallery like that is no one wants to see quality work of other humans unless then know them. Not sure I understand that statement as it relates to this gallery. I do seem to get more submitted images rejected lately tho, but I thought it might be their attempt to limit the number posted. For me it seems they have definitely raised the bar no matter what the mechanism. Kenneth Waller http://tinyurl.com/272u2f - Original Message - From: Bruce Dayton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Pentax Gallery voting Probably just my own complaining, but I do continue to see a large slant towards outdoor (scenic) and street photography. One real downside to 'artists' voting before the judges even get a crack at it, is those biases can come out. For example, after seeing about 400 dragonflies and butterflies I tend to be a little harsher in my judgements. I also tend to be a little critical of photos of art - statues, paintings, etc. As near as I can tell from timing of acceptance/rejection, it appears that there is a tally of votes on a photo - when it reaches a threshold of either accept or reject, the photo is taken out of the voting. The rejects are simply rejected without judge intervention and the accepted are then put on hold (not actual status) waiting for the judges to decide. So technically excellent studio or wedding work will largely go unnoticed unless it involves a beautiful girl. Case in point - I had submitted the recent bridal portrait shot I show here, prior to showing on the list. It was rejected within hours - which would indicate the judges had not even seen it (the judges take much longer to get to a photo than that - usually days). I then showed it on list here and got a very strong positive response to it from people I would consider pretty critical. So I decided to resubmit it to see what would happen. This time it took a little longer to reject, but it did get rejected in a time frame that would lead me to believe the judges did not see it. I guess the real problem with a gallery like that is no one wants to see quality work of other humans unless then know them. Since they don't know them, it needs to be more like a NG shot of a beggar or a small child which all of us relate to. Anyway, just some thoughts. -- Bruce -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
LOL. Jack. I think I'm tending towards not participating because... darn it, I'm 47 years old and I just can't take it anymore... the rejection, it's a heavy burden... Actually I just don't buy into their telling me any given image isn't good enough (OK, maybe they just don't want it in THEIR gallery). Probably similar to the reason I'm going to get off of photo.net, and maintain my own site finally. I hate it when someone that doesn't know what their talking about tells me publicly they like a photo but they wish the shoreline was more horizontal. Brahma Bull bullocks... The photo isn't askew, the trees are perfectly vertical, they don't realize that the perspective of a receding shoreline makes it appear that the line where water and meet is not level. Tom C. From: Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery voting Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 13:44:29 -0700 (PDT) C'on now, Tom. Keep shooting and don't get discouraged. (don't statements like that make you just gag)? Maybe your earlier accepted images simply raised the bar too high. (no smiley..notice0.(?) Mr Sprat --- Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm discriminating against Pentax by not sending them any more photos. I'm posting them on Canon's gallery. :- Tom C. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery voting Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 19:39:16 + It's obvious you're being discriminated against. You have a mere 50 pics on the site:-)) !!! -- Original message -- From: Bruce Dayton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Probably just my own complaining, but I do continue to see a large slant towards outdoor (scenic) and street photography. One real downside to 'artists' voting before the judges even get a crack at it, is those biases can come out. For example, after seeing about 400 dragonflies and butterflies I tend to be a little harsher in my judgements. I also tend to be a little critical of photos of art - statues, paintings, etc. As near as I can tell from timing of acceptance/rejection, it appears that there is a tally of votes on a photo - when it reaches a threshold of either accept or reject, the photo is taken out of the voting. The rejects are simply rejected without judge intervention and the accepted are then put on hold (not actual status) waiting for the judges to decide. So technically excellent studio or wedding work will largely go unnoticed unless it involves a beautiful girl. Case in point - I had submitted the recent bridal portrait shot I show here, prior to showing on the list. It was rejected within hours - which would indicate the judges had not even seen it (the judges take much longer to get to a photo than that - usually days). I then showed it on list here and got a very strong positive response to it from people I would consider pretty critical. So I decided to resubmit it to see what would happen. This time it took a little longer to reject, but it did get rejected in a time frame that would lead me to believe the judges did not see it. I guess the real problem with a gallery like that is no one wants to see quality work of other humans unless then know them. Since they don't know them, it needs to be more like a NG shot of a beggar or a small child which all of us relate to. Anyway, just some thoughts. -- Bruce -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. http://farechase.yahoo.com/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
Generally, it's a sort of putting on the brakes feeling to me. I have like concerns about style/subject tendencies influencing we judges, but it may be that Pentax is wanting to stem the tide by accepting fewer and fewer images. In the beginning there was probably an effort to quickly build a gallery to stimulate interest..or not. When this current gallery contributor judging was announced, I understood that the actual judges were going to have the final say on both yes and no votes. I fail to see how that would save them any time. Under the current judging system, I've had one quickly accepted and one quickly declined. Jack --- Bruce Dayton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've decided to cast my vote based on lens grin - if it is the kit lens or the 50-200, automatic reject. Just kidding... I only say that because I see so many travel photos put up with those two lenses, and I am wondering just what those people are thinking. Honestly, It would be nice if you could be judged somewhat against yourself - that way, beginning photographers would have something to show - but I'm sure that Pentax wants this to be the best of the best so that it is a true showcase. -- Bruce Tuesday, August 28, 2007, 12:30:49 PM, you wrote: pcn I quit submitting quite a while ago. I think I only put up pcn one shot since the peer judging was introduced. It was one that pcn had previously been accepted but that I had felt a need to edit. pcn It was promptly rejected. I'm okay with what I have now ( even pcn the dragonfly:-), so I doubt that I'll try again. Too time pcn consuming. pcn Paul pcn -- Original message -- pcn From: Bruce Dayton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Probably just my own complaining, but I do continue to see a large slant towards outdoor (scenic) and street photography. One real downside to 'artists' voting before the judges even get a crack at it, is those biases can come out. For example, after seeing about 400 dragonflies and butterflies I tend to be a little harsher in my judgements. I also tend to be a little critical of photos of art - statues, paintings, etc. As near as I can tell from timing of acceptance/rejection, it appears that there is a tally of votes on a photo - when it reaches a threshold of either accept or reject, the photo is taken out of the voting. The rejects are simply rejected without judge intervention and the accepted are then put on hold (not actual status) waiting for the judges to decide. So technically excellent studio or wedding work will largely go unnoticed unless it involves a beautiful girl. Case in point - I had submitted the recent bridal portrait shot I show here, prior to showing on the list. It was rejected within hours - which would indicate the judges had not even seen it (the judges take much longer to get to a photo than that - usually days). I then showed it on list here and got a very strong positive response to it from people I would consider pretty critical. So I decided to resubmit it to see what would happen. This time it took a little longer to reject, but it did get rejected in a time frame that would lead me to believe the judges did not see it. I guess the real problem with a gallery like that is no one wants to see quality work of other humans unless then know them. Since they don't know them, it needs to be more like a NG shot of a beggar or a small child which all of us relate to. Anyway, just some thoughts. -- Bruce -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=listsid=396545469 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
- Original Message - From: Tom C Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery voting LOL. Jack. I think I'm tending towards not participating because... darn it, I'm 47 years old and I just can't take it anymore... the rejection, it's a heavy burden... Just remember, your dogs love you. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
LOL. Jack. I think I'm tending towards not participating because... darn it, I'm 47 years old and I just can't take it anymore... the rejection, it's a heavy burden... Just remember, your dogs love you. William Robb I know, and every time I kick one of them I get in trouble with the wife. Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
Hear, hear! Jack --- Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If they've raised the bar, they should go back and review all images in the gallery with the new standard then... IMHO. Tom C. From: Kenneth Waller [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery voting Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 17:09:23 -0400 As near as I can tell from timing of acceptance/rejection, it appears that there is a tally of votes on a photo - when it reaches a threshold of either accept or reject, the photo is taken out of the voting. I think you're reading more into the process than there is IMHO. My experience is different. I've had images waiting for review for days I've had images reviewed in a matter of hours. I've also voted on the same image more than once. I guess the real problem with a gallery like that is no one wants to see quality work of other humans unless then know them. Not sure I understand that statement as it relates to this gallery. I do seem to get more submitted images rejected lately tho, but I thought it might be their attempt to limit the number posted. For me it seems they have definitely raised the bar no matter what the mechanism. Kenneth Waller http://tinyurl.com/272u2f - Original Message - From: Bruce Dayton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Pentax Gallery voting Probably just my own complaining, but I do continue to see a large slant towards outdoor (scenic) and street photography. One real downside to 'artists' voting before the judges even get a crack at it, is those biases can come out. For example, after seeing about 400 dragonflies and butterflies I tend to be a little harsher in my judgements. I also tend to be a little critical of photos of art - statues, paintings, etc. As near as I can tell from timing of acceptance/rejection, it appears that there is a tally of votes on a photo - when it reaches a threshold of either accept or reject, the photo is taken out of the voting. The rejects are simply rejected without judge intervention and the accepted are then put on hold (not actual status) waiting for the judges to decide. So technically excellent studio or wedding work will largely go unnoticed unless it involves a beautiful girl. Case in point - I had submitted the recent bridal portrait shot I show here, prior to showing on the list. It was rejected within hours - which would indicate the judges had not even seen it (the judges take much longer to get to a photo than that - usually days). I then showed it on list here and got a very strong positive response to it from people I would consider pretty critical. So I decided to resubmit it to see what would happen. This time it took a little longer to reject, but it did get rejected in a time frame that would lead me to believe the judges did not see it. I guess the real problem with a gallery like that is no one wants to see quality work of other humans unless then know them. Since they don't know them, it needs to be more like a NG shot of a beggar or a small child which all of us relate to. Anyway, just some thoughts. -- Bruce -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=listsid=396545469 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
Tom likes anything that humps his leg and licks his face. 8( Jack --- Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: LOL. Jack. I think I'm tending towards not participating because... darn it, I'm 47 years old and I just can't take it anymore... the rejection, it's a heavy burden... Just remember, your dogs love you. William Robb I know, and every time I kick one of them I get in trouble with the wife. Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. http://farechase.yahoo.com/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
Bruce - It also involves, I would thing - model's releases and the fear of the bride not wanting her photo out there on line. I would never enter a portrait of anyone in a photo contest, myself, unless I had a full release from the subject and it wasn't a posed for shot someone asked me to take for them. I think they are being cautious.. ann Bruce Dayton wrote: Probably just my own complaining, but I do continue to see a large slant towards outdoor (scenic) and street photography. One real downside to 'artists' voting before the judges even get a crack at it, is those biases can come out. For example, after seeing about 400 dragonflies and butterflies I tend to be a little harsher in my judgements. I also tend to be a little critical of photos of art - statues, paintings, etc. As near as I can tell from timing of acceptance/rejection, it appears that there is a tally of votes on a photo - when it reaches a threshold of either accept or reject, the photo is taken out of the voting. The rejects are simply rejected without judge intervention and the accepted are then put on hold (not actual status) waiting for the judges to decide. So technically excellent studio or wedding work will largely go unnoticed unless it involves a beautiful girl. Case in point - I had submitted the recent bridal portrait shot I show here, prior to showing on the list. It was rejected within hours - which would indicate the judges had not even seen it (the judges take much longer to get to a photo than that - usually days). I then showed it on list here and got a very strong positive response to it from people I would consider pretty critical. So I decided to resubmit it to see what would happen. This time it took a little longer to reject, but it did get rejected in a time frame that would lead me to believe the judges did not see it. I guess the real problem with a gallery like that is no one wants to see quality work of other humans unless then know them. Since they don't know them, it needs to be more like a NG shot of a beggar or a small child which all of us relate to. Anyway, just some thoughts. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
This is none of my business, I know. Did the Gallery ask for a release or do they have a procedure for submitting one? It seems they would require that for every single people shot in glamour/fashion and portraiture, in that case. Tom C. From: ann sanfedele [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery voting Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 18:25:33 -0400 Bruce - It also involves, I would thing - model's releases and the fear of the bride not wanting her photo out there on line. I would never enter a portrait of anyone in a photo contest, myself, unless I had a full release from the subject and it wasn't a posed for shot someone asked me to take for them. I think they are being cautious.. ann Bruce Dayton wrote: Probably just my own complaining, but I do continue to see a large slant towards outdoor (scenic) and street photography. One real downside to 'artists' voting before the judges even get a crack at it, is those biases can come out. For example, after seeing about 400 dragonflies and butterflies I tend to be a little harsher in my judgements. I also tend to be a little critical of photos of art - statues, paintings, etc. As near as I can tell from timing of acceptance/rejection, it appears that there is a tally of votes on a photo - when it reaches a threshold of either accept or reject, the photo is taken out of the voting. The rejects are simply rejected without judge intervention and the accepted are then put on hold (not actual status) waiting for the judges to decide. So technically excellent studio or wedding work will largely go unnoticed unless it involves a beautiful girl. Case in point - I had submitted the recent bridal portrait shot I show here, prior to showing on the list. It was rejected within hours - which would indicate the judges had not even seen it (the judges take much longer to get to a photo than that - usually days). I then showed it on list here and got a very strong positive response to it from people I would consider pretty critical. So I decided to resubmit it to see what would happen. This time it took a little longer to reject, but it did get rejected in a time frame that would lead me to believe the judges did not see it. I guess the real problem with a gallery like that is no one wants to see quality work of other humans unless then know them. Since they don't know them, it needs to be more like a NG shot of a beggar or a small child which all of us relate to. Anyway, just some thoughts. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
Don't think it is getting that far. I have photos with people in them already in the gallery. I believe the model release angle has to do with commercial gain. My issue is that the images are not even being seen by Pentax Judges because of the pre-screening by all of us 'artists' - I gave my explanation of timing. If the judges had to look at everything anyway, what is the point of the pre-screen. I am guessing right now, but I think that it basically works where the pre-screen will either reject or flag as accepted. Then the judges only need to go through the accepted images to make a final call. This would help them tremendously in reviewing of images. If they had to look at the rejects also, then what is the point? -- Bruce Tuesday, August 28, 2007, 3:25:33 PM, you wrote: as Bruce - as It also involves, I would thing - model's releases and the fear of the as bride not wanting her photo as out there on line. as I would never enter a portrait of anyone in a photo contest, myself, as unless I had a full release from as the subject and it wasn't a posed for shot someone asked me to take for as them. as I think they are being cautious.. as ann as Bruce Dayton wrote: Probably just my own complaining, but I do continue to see a large slant towards outdoor (scenic) and street photography. One real downside to 'artists' voting before the judges even get a crack at it, is those biases can come out. For example, after seeing about 400 dragonflies and butterflies I tend to be a little harsher in my judgements. I also tend to be a little critical of photos of art - statues, paintings, etc. As near as I can tell from timing of acceptance/rejection, it appears that there is a tally of votes on a photo - when it reaches a threshold of either accept or reject, the photo is taken out of the voting. The rejects are simply rejected without judge intervention and the accepted are then put on hold (not actual status) waiting for the judges to decide. So technically excellent studio or wedding work will largely go unnoticed unless it involves a beautiful girl. Case in point - I had submitted the recent bridal portrait shot I show here, prior to showing on the list. It was rejected within hours - which would indicate the judges had not even seen it (the judges take much longer to get to a photo than that - usually days). I then showed it on list here and got a very strong positive response to it from people I would consider pretty critical. So I decided to resubmit it to see what would happen. This time it took a little longer to reject, but it did get rejected in a time frame that would lead me to believe the judges did not see it. I guess the real problem with a gallery like that is no one wants to see quality work of other humans unless then know them. Since they don't know them, it needs to be more like a NG shot of a beggar or a small child which all of us relate to. Anyway, just some thoughts. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
Good point Ann, but if that's the case they should state it. I've had a portrait accepted there was no issue with a release. Kenneth Waller http://tinyurl.com/272u2f - Original Message - From: ann sanfedele [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery voting Bruce - It also involves, I would thing - model's releases and the fear of the bride not wanting her photo out there on line. I would never enter a portrait of anyone in a photo contest, myself, unless I had a full release from the subject and it wasn't a posed for shot someone asked me to take for them. I think they are being cautious.. ann Bruce Dayton wrote: Probably just my own complaining, but I do continue to see a large slant towards outdoor (scenic) and street photography. One real downside to 'artists' voting before the judges even get a crack at it, is those biases can come out. For example, after seeing about 400 dragonflies and butterflies I tend to be a little harsher in my judgements. I also tend to be a little critical of photos of art - statues, paintings, etc. As near as I can tell from timing of acceptance/rejection, it appears that there is a tally of votes on a photo - when it reaches a threshold of either accept or reject, the photo is taken out of the voting. The rejects are simply rejected without judge intervention and the accepted are then put on hold (not actual status) waiting for the judges to decide. So technically excellent studio or wedding work will largely go unnoticed unless it involves a beautiful girl. Case in point - I had submitted the recent bridal portrait shot I show here, prior to showing on the list. It was rejected within hours - which would indicate the judges had not even seen it (the judges take much longer to get to a photo than that - usually days). I then showed it on list here and got a very strong positive response to it from people I would consider pretty critical. So I decided to resubmit it to see what would happen. This time it took a little longer to reject, but it did get rejected in a time frame that would lead me to believe the judges did not see it. I guess the real problem with a gallery like that is no one wants to see quality work of other humans unless then know them. Since they don't know them, it needs to be more like a NG shot of a beggar or a small child which all of us relate to. Anyway, just some thoughts. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
No, they don't ask for a release or even ask if you have one. I think the intent of the photo has something to do with whether a release is needed or not. Otherwise, all street photography would have the same problem. Pretty soon no one is going to be able to show any photo anywhere without a release grin. This means photos of our pets (cats and dogs) and kids abounding everywhere. -- Bruce Tuesday, August 28, 2007, 3:30:20 PM, you wrote: TC This is none of my business, I know. Did the Gallery ask for a release or do TC they have a procedure for submitting one? It seems they would require that TC for every single people shot in glamour/fashion and portraiture, in that TC case. TC Tom C. From: ann sanfedele [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery voting Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 18:25:33 -0400 Bruce - It also involves, I would thing - model's releases and the fear of the bride not wanting her photo out there on line. I would never enter a portrait of anyone in a photo contest, myself, unless I had a full release from the subject and it wasn't a posed for shot someone asked me to take for them. I think they are being cautious.. ann Bruce Dayton wrote: Probably just my own complaining, but I do continue to see a large slant towards outdoor (scenic) and street photography. One real downside to 'artists' voting before the judges even get a crack at it, is those biases can come out. For example, after seeing about 400 dragonflies and butterflies I tend to be a little harsher in my judgements. I also tend to be a little critical of photos of art - statues, paintings, etc. As near as I can tell from timing of acceptance/rejection, it appears that there is a tally of votes on a photo - when it reaches a threshold of either accept or reject, the photo is taken out of the voting. The rejects are simply rejected without judge intervention and the accepted are then put on hold (not actual status) waiting for the judges to decide. So technically excellent studio or wedding work will largely go unnoticed unless it involves a beautiful girl. Case in point - I had submitted the recent bridal portrait shot I show here, prior to showing on the list. It was rejected within hours - which would indicate the judges had not even seen it (the judges take much longer to get to a photo than that - usually days). I then showed it on list here and got a very strong positive response to it from people I would consider pretty critical. So I decided to resubmit it to see what would happen. This time it took a little longer to reject, but it did get rejected in a time frame that would lead me to believe the judges did not see it. I guess the real problem with a gallery like that is no one wants to see quality work of other humans unless then know them. Since they don't know them, it needs to be more like a NG shot of a beggar or a small child which all of us relate to. Anyway, just some thoughts. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
In a perfect world - definitely. I seem to remember a while back some mention of a change regarding selection, before peer voting. I wonder if the people originally involved in selection still are? We need to remember it's still their football. Kenneth Waller http://tinyurl.com/272u2f - Original Message - From: Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery voting If they've raised the bar, they should go back and review all images in the gallery with the new standard then... IMHO. Tom C. From: Kenneth Waller [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery voting Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 17:09:23 -0400 As near as I can tell from timing of acceptance/rejection, it appears that there is a tally of votes on a photo - when it reaches a threshold of either accept or reject, the photo is taken out of the voting. I think you're reading more into the process than there is IMHO. My experience is different. I've had images waiting for review for days I've had images reviewed in a matter of hours. I've also voted on the same image more than once. I guess the real problem with a gallery like that is no one wants to see quality work of other humans unless then know them. Not sure I understand that statement as it relates to this gallery. I do seem to get more submitted images rejected lately tho, but I thought it might be their attempt to limit the number posted. For me it seems they have definitely raised the bar no matter what the mechanism. Kenneth Waller http://tinyurl.com/272u2f - Original Message - From: Bruce Dayton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Pentax Gallery voting Probably just my own complaining, but I do continue to see a large slant towards outdoor (scenic) and street photography. One real downside to 'artists' voting before the judges even get a crack at it, is those biases can come out. For example, after seeing about 400 dragonflies and butterflies I tend to be a little harsher in my judgements. I also tend to be a little critical of photos of art - statues, paintings, etc. As near as I can tell from timing of acceptance/rejection, it appears that there is a tally of votes on a photo - when it reaches a threshold of either accept or reject, the photo is taken out of the voting. The rejects are simply rejected without judge intervention and the accepted are then put on hold (not actual status) waiting for the judges to decide. So technically excellent studio or wedding work will largely go unnoticed unless it involves a beautiful girl. Case in point - I had submitted the recent bridal portrait shot I show here, prior to showing on the list. It was rejected within hours - which would indicate the judges had not even seen it (the judges take much longer to get to a photo than that - usually days). I then showed it on list here and got a very strong positive response to it from people I would consider pretty critical. So I decided to resubmit it to see what would happen. This time it took a little longer to reject, but it did get rejected in a time frame that would lead me to believe the judges did not see it. I guess the real problem with a gallery like that is no one wants to see quality work of other humans unless then know them. Since they don't know them, it needs to be more like a NG shot of a beggar or a small child which all of us relate to. Anyway, just some thoughts. -- Bruce -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
Well it's their backyard, but it's really OUR football(s) on the playing field. :-) Tom C. From: Kenneth Waller [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery voting Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 18:51:11 -0400 In a perfect world - definitely. I seem to remember a while back some mention of a change regarding selection, before peer voting. I wonder if the people originally involved in selection still are? We need to remember it's still their football. Kenneth Waller http://tinyurl.com/272u2f - Original Message - From: Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery voting If they've raised the bar, they should go back and review all images in the gallery with the new standard then... IMHO. Tom C. From: Kenneth Waller [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery voting Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 17:09:23 -0400 As near as I can tell from timing of acceptance/rejection, it appears that there is a tally of votes on a photo - when it reaches a threshold of either accept or reject, the photo is taken out of the voting. I think you're reading more into the process than there is IMHO. My experience is different. I've had images waiting for review for days I've had images reviewed in a matter of hours. I've also voted on the same image more than once. I guess the real problem with a gallery like that is no one wants to see quality work of other humans unless then know them. Not sure I understand that statement as it relates to this gallery. I do seem to get more submitted images rejected lately tho, but I thought it might be their attempt to limit the number posted. For me it seems they have definitely raised the bar no matter what the mechanism. Kenneth Waller http://tinyurl.com/272u2f - Original Message - From: Bruce Dayton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Pentax Gallery voting Probably just my own complaining, but I do continue to see a large slant towards outdoor (scenic) and street photography. One real downside to 'artists' voting before the judges even get a crack at it, is those biases can come out. For example, after seeing about 400 dragonflies and butterflies I tend to be a little harsher in my judgements. I also tend to be a little critical of photos of art - statues, paintings, etc. As near as I can tell from timing of acceptance/rejection, it appears that there is a tally of votes on a photo - when it reaches a threshold of either accept or reject, the photo is taken out of the voting. The rejects are simply rejected without judge intervention and the accepted are then put on hold (not actual status) waiting for the judges to decide. So technically excellent studio or wedding work will largely go unnoticed unless it involves a beautiful girl. Case in point - I had submitted the recent bridal portrait shot I show here, prior to showing on the list. It was rejected within hours - which would indicate the judges had not even seen it (the judges take much longer to get to a photo than that - usually days). I then showed it on list here and got a very strong positive response to it from people I would consider pretty critical. So I decided to resubmit it to see what would happen. This time it took a little longer to reject, but it did get rejected in a time frame that would lead me to believe the judges did not see it. I guess the real problem with a gallery like that is no one wants to see quality work of other humans unless then know them. Since they don't know them, it needs to be more like a NG shot of a beggar or a small child which all of us relate to. Anyway, just some thoughts. -- Bruce -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If they've raised the bar, they should go back and review all images in the gallery with the new standard then... IMHO. If people are complaining about images being rejected now just imagine the reaction if previously accepted images got dumped! (If Pentax's Gallery management could ever get the time and manpower to re-review all the images. We need to remember this is a free service Pentax is providing us.) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
You don't need model releases for a gallery. You only need one if the picture is to be used for commercial purposes. Paul On Aug 28, 2007, at 6:47 PM, Kenneth Waller wrote: Good point Ann, but if that's the case they should state it. I've had a portrait accepted there was no issue with a release. Kenneth Waller http://tinyurl.com/272u2f - Original Message - From: ann sanfedele [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery voting Bruce - It also involves, I would thing - model's releases and the fear of the bride not wanting her photo out there on line. I would never enter a portrait of anyone in a photo contest, myself, unless I had a full release from the subject and it wasn't a posed for shot someone asked me to take for them. I think they are being cautious.. ann Bruce Dayton wrote: Probably just my own complaining, but I do continue to see a large slant towards outdoor (scenic) and street photography. One real downside to 'artists' voting before the judges even get a crack at it, is those biases can come out. For example, after seeing about 400 dragonflies and butterflies I tend to be a little harsher in my judgements. I also tend to be a little critical of photos of art - statues, paintings, etc. As near as I can tell from timing of acceptance/rejection, it appears that there is a tally of votes on a photo - when it reaches a threshold of either accept or reject, the photo is taken out of the voting. The rejects are simply rejected without judge intervention and the accepted are then put on hold (not actual status) waiting for the judges to decide. So technically excellent studio or wedding work will largely go unnoticed unless it involves a beautiful girl. Case in point - I had submitted the recent bridal portrait shot I show here, prior to showing on the list. It was rejected within hours - which would indicate the judges had not even seen it (the judges take much longer to get to a photo than that - usually days). I then showed it on list here and got a very strong positive response to it from people I would consider pretty critical. So I decided to resubmit it to see what would happen. This time it took a little longer to reject, but it did get rejected in a time frame that would lead me to believe the judges did not see it. I guess the real problem with a gallery like that is no one wants to see quality work of other humans unless then know them. Since they don't know them, it needs to be more like a NG shot of a beggar or a small child which all of us relate to. Anyway, just some thoughts. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
Certainly it's free and we probably have little right to complain. But our egos must be considered. :-) Tom C. From: Mark Roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery voting Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 20:42:51 -0400 (EDT) Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If they've raised the bar, they should go back and review all images in the gallery with the new standard then... IMHO. If people are complaining about images being rejected now just imagine the reaction if previously accepted images got dumped! (If Pentax's Gallery management could ever get the time and manpower to re-review all the images. We need to remember this is a free service Pentax is providing us.) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
At 03:14 AM 29/08/2007, Bruce Dayton wrote: Probably just my own complaining, but I do continue to see a large slant towards outdoor (scenic) and street photography. snip I've just now decided to give up on the gallery. 2 of my better efforts were recently rejected: http://www.arach.net.au/~savage/PESO/peso_030.htm http://www.arach.net.au/~savage/Misc/Images/K10D/_IGP4086.jpg I can't do much better than that. I also made the stupid mistake of correcting a typo in the description of one of my previously accepted shots (warning spider photo Dave): http://www.arach.net.au/~savage/PESO/peso_023.htm As soon as I hit the submit button I knew I had made a mistake. It's now back under review I fully expect it to be rejected. I should have submitted more photos at the very start of the galleries life. Cheers, Dave -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
My complaint has nothing to do with the gallery judges - it is with us artists. Each of us has biases and things that interest us. So our voting can be very lopsided - and that can preclude pictures from ever being reviewed by the judges who might actually be more even handed. So here I am a wedding/portrait/flora and landscape oriented shooter who is voting on some street or concert submissions. My interests may cause me to be less caring about images submitted in other categories. And there may be some voters who aren't very qualified to vote either - not that I am. Ideally, it would be nice if they could have the artists vote on lots of shots and then have the judges vote on the same shots. Those that show similar picks to what the judges like would be best for voting. Of course that would take lots more time initially. -- Bruce Tuesday, August 28, 2007, 7:39:41 PM, you wrote: DS At 03:14 AM 29/08/2007, Bruce Dayton wrote: Probably just my own complaining, but I do continue to see a large slant towards outdoor (scenic) and street photography. DS snip DS I've just now decided to give up on the gallery. DS 2 of my better efforts were recently rejected: DS http://www.arach.net.au/~savage/PESO/peso_030.htm DS http://www.arach.net.au/~savage/Misc/Images/K10D/_IGP4086.jpg DS I can't do much better than that. DS I also made the stupid mistake of correcting a typo in the description of DS one of my previously accepted shots (warning spider photo Dave): DS http://www.arach.net.au/~savage/PESO/peso_023.htm DS As soon as I hit the submit button I knew I had made a mistake. It's now DS back under review I fully expect it to be rejected. DS I should have submitted more photos at the very start of the galleries life. DS Cheers, DS Dave -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
- Original Message - From: Bruce Dayton Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery voting Ideally, it would be nice if they could have the artists vote on lots of shots and then have the judges vote on the same shots. Those that show similar picks to what the judges like would be best for voting. Of course that would take lots more time initially. Quite frankly, I think the entire process of peer judging is fatally flawed. If Pentax wants to have a judged gallery, then they should be judging the thing themselves, with qualified judges, not passing on the responsibility to people of questionable or no qualification regarding judging of photographs. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery voting
Quite frankly, I think the entire process of peer judging is fatally flawed. If Pentax wants to have a judged gallery, then they should be judging the thing themselves, with qualified judges, not passing on the responsibility to people of questionable or no qualification regarding judging of photographs. I'm on board, Bill. I'm not even really happy with the idea of us providing a pre-evaluation score card for the, ostensibly unbiased, judges. Just seeing that score card /will/ bias their judgements. That's no condemnation of the judges, just a simple statement of the way human's (generally) work. The judges are going to be biased anyway, by their own upbringing, experience, mood, etc. So does it help or hurt to pre-bias their judgement process? Darned if I know. My instinct is that it's a net negative. Us versus them, where them is a small group of hand-picked people with a specific goal, working consciously, and presumably conscientiously, to be unbiased. And Us is, well, /us/! And worse. The Average Idiot got that name for a reason. -- Thanks, DougF (KG4LMZ) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Gallery Voting
On 7/12/07, Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: With every screen, up to three images are the same as the previous screen and must be voted on again in order to 'submit' the votes. When three of the five offered are re-votes, I find I lose interest fairly quickly. Too bad this glitch is further slowing the process. Jack-- I think they got it fixed. I finally got the thank you for voting page (or something like that) at the end... Bong Manayon http://www.bong.uni.cc -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
