Re: [RBW] Re: A little OT: Swift Industries interview

[John Bokman]

This bag is really meant to be attatched to a decaleur, or mounting  
system which makes the bag quick release. That is to say, one can use  
it by attatching it to the platform of the front rack without a  
decaleur, but it will be most stable when using a decaleur. This type  
of bag is meant to be resting on the front rack, but secured by the  
decaleur. That said, Martina has placed her velcro straps on the  
bottom of the bag very nicely, and there is a strong bond to the rack  
just using the straps. Still, if  you are riding on rough roads, I  
would recommend using this bag with a decaleur.

On Sep 15, 2012, at 10:55 AM, Allingham II, Thomas J wrote:

Does this attach securely to, say, a Mark's Rack?  How much does it  
wobble, unloaded and loaded?


From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owners- 
bu...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of john

Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 10:27 AM
To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
Subject: [RBW] Re: A little OT: Swift Industries interview

I've got a Swift Cycles Rando bag for sale. New, never used.  
Gorgeous. $225, shipped.Check out their website.


On Monday, September 10, 2012 10:06:32 AM UTC-7, Scot Brooks wrote:
I got to interview Martina from Swift this weekend. They make super  
nice bags for bicycles, and the waxed canvas option is excellent  
and quite Riv-ish. Check it out if you like. http:// 
cyclingillustrated.com/local-maker-interview-vol-1-swift-industries- 
by-scot-hinckley/


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Re: [RBW] Re: jack brown's

[John Bokman]

Mike, thanks for the response. I have ridden Pasella tour guard and  
regular pasellas for the past several years. I noticed an immediate  
improvement in fun when I switched to regular' pasellas from the  
tour guards.  I have ordered the jack brown greens due to this need  
for fun rather than a puncture proof tire which I find no fun.


Obviously, there's a compomise inherent in any choice; were I using  
the tires for touring, I'd opt for the Panaracer Pasella with Tour  
Guard. But for every day riding, I'm looking for something more  
fun. Maybe the jack's will prove more fun even than the regular  
pasellas.


Having said all this, I've been very happy with the panaracer  
pasellas, and wonder why Riv no longer sells them. Probably pushed  
out by all those Schwalbes I don't want.

On Jan 28, 2013, at 1:11 PM, Mike Schiller wrote:

kinda like the difference between a Pasela TG and non-TG. Night and  
day as far as the ride feel.


I only got about 700 miles on the GB Cypres before the rear tire  
casing split. They are a smooth rolling tire for sure.  The JB  
greens are plusher and roll very well for me at 190 lbs



~mike



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Re: [RBW] WTB or Trade: Nitto Mini Front Rack 32F

[John Bokman]

Justin:

Sure, I'll gladly sell the mark's rack. You should know the struts are cut to 
fit a 60 frame. Any larger and they may not fit. Just let me know what the 
rack is worth to you.

Thanks, John.
On Jul 7, 2013, at 3:28 PM, justinaug...@gmail.com wrote:

 I'll buy that Mark's if you are looking for relocation. 
 
 -Justin
 justinaug...@gmail.com
 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Newbaums over Newbaums?

[John Bokman]

No, actually I'm not looking for more cush. The reason I asked is because I'm 
building up a bike and have some tape that I don't want for the final color, 
but was considering using for a while until I get another color, at which point 
I'd potentially put the new over the old. Just trying to determine if others 
had done it and how the new tape would adhere and etc. Thanks for your reply.
John
On Oct 28, 2013, at 3:31 PM, Michael john11.2...@gmail.com wrote:

 Are you looking for more cush? Why not cotton over gel strips?
 
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Re: [RBW] Newbaums over Newbaums?

[John Bokman]

Thanks for your reply Bill. I am building a bike and had a color on hand that I 
don't want for the final color, but thought I might put it down instead of 
going zero tape like Spencer Chan until I get the color i want, at which point 
I'd potentially overlap. Based on what you say, I'll probably just wait to get 
the perfect color. Thanks for your response.
John
On Oct 28, 2013, at 1:40 PM, Bill Lindsay tapebu...@gmail.com wrote:

 I did two layers of newbaums over cork tape on my bullmoose bars making a 
 multilayered grip.  that didn't pose a problem.  In my past life as a 
 mechanic I sometimes double-wrapped for people.  It can get a little lumpy on 
 drop bars.  That first wrap is one-layer thick in some places and overlapped 
 to two layers thick in other places, right?  When it's double wrapped, there 
 will be some places that are only 1+1 = 2 layers thick and other spots that 
 are 2+2 = 4 layers thick.  Only you can decide if that bugs you.  
 
 The only reason I know of to do it is to make the bars a little bit bigger in 
 your hand.  There's neglible cushion there with one layer or two.  The 
 reasons not to do it would be the potential for lumpiness and the extra $10 
 that you spent.  I re-wrap my bars whenever the mood strikes, and I buy up 
 new colors of newbaums just for fun, so even though it's a decent investment 
 of time, you can always take it apart and do it differently.   
 
 On Monday, October 28, 2013 12:30:33 PM UTC-7, john wrote:
 Looking for advice concerning wrapping cloth tape over cloth tape. Any issues 
 with the second layer adhering properly? Prosvs.cons?
 Thanks.
 J.
 
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Re: [RBW] Newbaums over Newbaums?

[John Bokman]

Thanks for your comment, Kieran.
On Oct 28, 2013, at 5:17 PM, Kieran J kjo...@gmail.com wrote:

 I have two layers of Newbaum's on the Ram, no problems with the 2nd layer 
 sticking to the 1st.
 
 KJ
 
 
 
 On Monday, October 28, 2013 7:59:08 PM UTC-4, john wrote:
 No, actually I'm not looking for more cush. The reason I asked is because I'm 
 building up a bike and have some tape that I don't want for the final color, 
 but was considering using for a while until I get another color, at which 
 point I'd potentially put the new over the old. Just trying to determine if 
 others had done it and how the new tape would adhere and etc. Thanks for 
 your reply.
 John
 On Oct 28, 2013, at 3:31 PM, Michael john1...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Are you looking for more cush? Why not cotton over gel strips?
 
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Re: [RBW] FS: Nitto Stems, Jannd Rack, Soma Tires

[John Bokman]

Sure. Let me know where to send it. Are you okay with paying postage? I don't 
know how much something like that would cost. I'm on paypal at my email address.
On Nov 4, 2013, at 10:46 AM, john johnco...@comcast.net wrote:

 Hi all. I've got several stems I'm no longer using. Maybe one or some of you 
 are in need? also a great rough stuff front rack, and Week old tires in 
 700x37.
 The stems are measured (in photos) from center to center. There's a Dirt Drop 
 10, Regular 10, Technomic 12. The rack does not come with attachment 
 parts; you're on your own there.
 
 Tires: $50 (new they're $100, and they're basically new, having only ridden 
 them maybe 40 miles).
 Stems: make an offer.
 Rack: make an offer.
 
 Check out the photos.
 Thanks,
 John
 johnco...@comcast.net
 
 
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 rack1.JPGrack2.JPGrack3.JPGsoma1.jpgsoma2.JPGstem1.JPGstem2.JPGstem3.JPGstem4.JPG

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Re: [RBW] (New School) MUSA pants for sale

[John Bokman]

Sorry David, they’re sold.
On Sep 21, 2015, at 5:08 PM, David <23writ...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm interested John. Let me know if they're still available and I'll follow 
> up tomorrow.
> Thanks. 
> David
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Sep 21, 2015, at 7:48 PM, john  wrote:
> 
>> I've had these for a few years, I guess. I don't wear them because I prefer 
>> the Old School MUSA pants (the ones with the velcro closure at the ankle) 
>> which I wear more than any pants I own. 
>> 
>> These New School pants (zipper at the ankle) are in terrific shape, no 
>> blemishes of any kind, it's just that I never wear them. Maybe someone out 
>> there likes the New School better than me?
>> 
>> Sized Medium, but I'd only recommend them to someone who has thin legs, like 
>> me. They aren't as roomy as the Old School pants, in my estimation.
>> 
>> $25 shipped?
>> 
>> 
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[RBW] Re: Massively upgraded Appaloosa

[John Bokman]

 I would love to hear how the new brakes compare (stop, modulate) to the 
generics. Thanks for the post. I love the simplicity and function of the 
V-brakes I
have used. 

On Wednesday, May 25, 2016 at 10:42:30 AM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> On one of the lists...maybe this one, maybe iBob, somebody listed a set of 
> XTR V-brakes and levers for a price too-good-to-pass up.  My Appaloosa 
> complete came with generic V-Brakes, and worked perfectly fine, as generic 
> V-Brakes always do.  Nevertheless, the too-good-to-pass-up price led me to 
> upgrade.  Now my Appaloosa is rocking XTR brakes.  They came to me with 
> worn out stock brake pads, but I had some new salmon koolstops on hand, 
> natch.  
> The XTR levers have their clamp bolt tucked out of the way, playing nice 
> with the inside mount thumbies.  While I was doing the swap, I was able to 
> deploy my new favorite find:  I bought a shop-roll of Jagwire brake housing 
> from Jenson USA that is reflective!  It's black housing with a silvery 
> stripe.  The silvery stripe is bright white reflective when car headlights 
> shine on it.  An entrepreneurial type should buy a shop-roll and then 
> re-sell it in single bike quantities to conspicuity zealots.  
>
> Anyway, pictures prove that Appaloosa is upgradeable.  
>
>
> 
>
>
> 
>  
>

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Re: [RBW] On tire supple-itude

[John Bokman]

Of all the tires I've ridden that come to mind (Schwalbe 26x2.0 Big Apple; 
Pasella 700c Tour Guard and non-Tour guard in 32, 35, 37 mm; Soma New 
Express 700x37; Jack Brown Green 700x33.333 and Compass Barlow Pass EL 
700x38) they all have their purpose. Some are more "fun" than others. Some 
wear better, some have better grip on pavement, some are better 
off-pavementTo the question at hand: Would I notice the difference 
between a Jack Brown and a "Supple tire"? No, I would not. I think the Jack 
Brown Green is the best riding tire I've tried in 700c. It rolls as well as 
the Barlow and feels livelier. In fact I prefer the ride of my (albeit 
narrower) 700x33.333 Jack Browns vs. the 700x38 Barlow Els. But this is not 
to say there is no cost to this choice. The Jack Browns, in my experience, 
do not last very long, and puncture more easily than the other tires I've 
listed (can't compare to the Barlows on this score yet because I have not 
enough miles on them to know). Interesting to me, they're not as "supple" 
as the Barlows. Rest assured, the Jack Browns are supple enough to provide 
exceptional ride quality, if that's what's making them ride so well. In my 
mind, weight makes  big difference in the liveliness of the ride. Both the 
Jack Brown Greens (350 grams) and Barlow Pass Els (lighter still) are 
light. When I switch from Pasellas or Soma New Express to the Jacks or the 
Barlows, I notice an immediate improvement in liveliness. Depends what 
matters most to you. All are good tires for a particular purpose. I haven't 
yet found one tire to do it all - though I'm still looking.

On Wednesday, March 23, 2016 at 12:07:34 PM UTC-7, Mark in Beacon wrote:
>
> Yes, good advice in a clearly delineated, either/or, binary, black and 
> white world. But the OP was asking about the confusing array of tires 
> available, and what exactly constitutes a supple tire. Trying all the 
> available tires out there is a bit daunting. While experimentation is 
> inevitable, the great thing about a list devoted to bike stuff is that you 
> can access lots of other experiences that would otherwise be unavailable.
>
> Other than tubulars vs. clinchers when I was racing, I never paid much 
> attention to tires. Just figured if you wanted good ones, buy the more 
> expensive ones. Which, to a certain extent, is still true. But I think 
> becoming more educated about the various qualities of bicycle tires is 
> kinda useful, and relatively interesting. It will be particularly 
> interesting to compare the stock Clem tires with a puffy, supple, 
> lightweight. I did hear that Panaracer Gravel Kings will soon be available 
> in a 48cm 650B that has a herringbone tread very similar to the Compass 
> tires. Anyone heard anything further about a release date on these? I 
> imagine Soma is cooking up an entry into the 650B 42+ field.
>
> On Wednesday, March 23, 2016 at 12:07:36 PM UTC-4, Jim Bronson wrote:
>>
>> I think we've gotten to the point with this discussion that people should 
>> just choose a tire according to their preference.
>>
>> If a smooth, fast ride is a priority for you, ride supple tires.
>>
>> If longevity and flat resistance are a priority for you, don't ride 
>> supple tires.
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 22, 2016 at 5:27 PM, ian m  wrote:
>>
>>> Hopefully not beating a dying horse here, but I am confused by how this 
>>> topic is often discussed. With how BQ and Compass/Grand Bois talk about 
>>> their tires it seems as though it's a binary opposition, right? Supple 
>>> tires vs. non-supple tires, new tire technology vs. old tires, their tires 
>>> vs. the rest. But what is even being discussed when we talk about 
>>> suppleness? Am I confused in thinking that there has long been differing 
>>> levels of casing quality with TPI being a good indicator of suppleness (and 
>>> why doesn't Compass advertise the TPI on their tires)?
>>>
>>> It seems to me that it's more of a continuum of supple, from maybe the 
>>> steel belted kevlar enforced urban assault Schwalbe to the hand sewn from 
>>> the finest silk undies race only FMBs. In that continuum you have your 
>>> clincher and your tubular, your wire bead and folding bead, your 120TPI and 
>>> your puncture-proof belt. But where in the continuum are they?
>>>
>>> I'm not interested in performance and am a proud unracer. My only Riv 
>>> bike is a Clem and I love it. But I know and appreciate quality bicycle 
>>> components and, as they say, am too poor to buy cheap things. While the 
>>> rising interest in wide tires in the performance bicycling world will mean 
>>> more options for us balloon bikers, that also means more companies making 
>>> all sorts of unverifiable claims about their tires. I remember when I 
>>> switched from Schwalbe Delta Cruisers to Clement 120TPI USH tires on a 
>>> previous touring bike. I was not let down. But would I notice the same 
>>> change if I went from the light Jack Browns on my SS to Compass tires?  I 
>>> 

[RBW] Re: on bike bag theft

[John Bokman]

I had a seat post, saddle, and Carradice stolen in one fell swoop one night 
as it sat unattended outside of work in downtown Portland, Oregon. In over 
10 years in the same neighborhood, this happened just the once, but it was 
painful! It can definitely happen.

On Thursday, March 3, 2016 at 12:56:18 PM UTC-8, drew wrote:
>
> i leave a carradice barley on one bike and a saddlesack medium on the 
> other. both are zip-tied and both have a small cable that runs through some 
> leather part of the bag, rack, and saddle rail. not theft proof by any 
> means, but so far it has been enough to deter thievery of the bag itself. i 
> have had weird random stuff taken from the bag that i didnt notice 
> immediately- patch kit, mini pump, wrench...oddly on 3 separate occasions. 
> i mean, why take a patch kit and not a pump, then a pump but not a patch 
> kit..
>
> anyway...i live in los angeles, have had 2 bikes stolen (though at the 
> time, i wasnt locking up in the best way and left them overnight), and am 
> now pretty conservative about location of locking and duration of time 
> locked up. 
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Max-Width Schwalbe Marathon Mondial on Sam & Fenders

[John Bokman]

Thanks to everyone for their input.

Since the Berthoud fenders have generous roundness and fit my 37mm Soma New 
Express tires easily, I believe I will try the Mondial in 40mm.

Once I do I will post. Thanks all (especially for the photographs)!
J.

On Friday, April 22, 2016 at 7:25:42 AM UTC-7, Surlyprof wrote:
>
> John,
>
> Here's a couple of pictures of my Sam with Mondials and fenders:
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/129545862@N03/25100274155/in/dateposted-public/
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/129545862@N03/24621117222/in/dateposted-public/
>
> John
>
> On Thursday, April 21, 2016 at 8:11:48 AM UTC-7, John Bokman wrote:
>>
>> Greetings.
>>
>> I've dug into all the back posts about the various widths and etc. but 
>> haven't found what i'm looking for, so please excuse the redundancy.
>>
>> Here's my setup: 2009 Canti Sam Hillborne @ 60cm. I'm running 50mm 
>> Berthoud fenders. I've got Velocity Synergy 23mm rims.
>>
>> Question: What is the largest Marathon Mondials I can fit given this 
>> setup? 700x40? 700x45? Remember, I've got fenders, and I'm not taking them 
>> off.
>>
>> I am under the impression Mondials are about 1.5 mm thinner than their 
>> stated size.
>>
>> I'm itching to do some dirt/gravel road touring!
>>
>> Thanks to all.
>>
>> J.
>>
>

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[RBW] Max-Width Schwalbe Marathon Mondial on Sam & Fenders

[John Bokman]

Greetings.

I've dug into all the back posts about the various widths and etc. but 
haven't found what i'm looking for, so please excuse the redundancy.

Here's my setup: 2009 Canti Sam Hillborne @ 60cm. I'm running 50mm Berthoud 
fenders. I've got Velocity Synergy 23mm rims.

Question: What is the largest Marathon Mondials I can fit given this setup? 
700x40? 700x45? Remember, I've got fenders, and I'm not taking them off.

I am under the impression Mondials are about 1.5 mm thinner than their 
stated size.

I'm itching to do some dirt/gravel road touring!

Thanks to all.

J.

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[RBW] Re: Clipless or Clips?

[John Bokman]

But what of Power Grips? Any of you who like clips tried 'em? 

On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 10:11:32 AM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> Some time ago I swapped the Shimano M324 pedals on the Hon Solo for MKS 
> GR9s, complete with Christophes, toe strap buckle pads, and strap buttons. 
> The GR9 is a cheap pedal, not nearly as nice as the MKS Urban, which I also 
> tried briefly, but the flip tab on the -9 is simply the best, IMO. 
>
> At any rate, the ease of entry and the flexibility with regard to footwear 
> are benefits that once again loom large on my mental horizon, and I'm 
> thinking of switching at least one of the Rivendells back to clips and 
> straps. As an additional motive, I just found a very good garage-shop 
> cobbler, and I have a pair of very nice, old leather soled Rivats that need 
> re-soling.
>
> And I know from experience that slipping the Rivats into semi-tight straps 
> on MKS RX-1 pedals is a hellofalot easier than getting into KEOS.
>
> Presently the '99 has lightweight double sided Expedos, and the '03 has 
> some upper-middle-class Shimano double sided mtb pedals from 10 or 15 years 
> ago; both very good.
>
> I'm thinking out loud: should I or should I not switch?
>
> More practically: how many of y'all use clips and straps? Clips and straps 
> and slotted cleats?
>
> Probably I should just ride the bikes and shut up. But I *do* like clips 
> and straps, and the decennially recurring question is now up for answer.
>
> -- 
> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
> Other professional writing services.
> http://www.resumespecialties.com/
> www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten
> **
> **
> *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a 
> circumference on the contours of which all conditions, distinctions, and 
> individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu
>
> *Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* *(The cross stands motionless while the 
> world revolves.) *Carthusian motto
>
> *It is *we *who change; *He* remains the same.* Eckhart
>
> *Kinei hos eromenon.* (*It moves [all things] as the beloved.) *Aristotle
>
>
>

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[RBW] WTB (or trade) MKS Touring pedals

[John Bokman]

Hi all. 

I'm interested in buying a set of MKS Touring pedals (maybe they used to be 
called Sylvan if memory serves?) that Riv used to sell. 
Or I'd gladly trade for a pair of well-used but perfectly functional MKS 
Sneaker pedals.

Thanks.
John

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Re: [RBW] Re: WTB (or trade) MKS Touring pedals

[john Bokman]

Jim, thanks of the  offer. I’m thinking about using some power grips with the 
MKS pedals, but first I’m trying out the VP Vice pedals I’ve got. So far I’m on 
the fence about the VPs. I like the grip but seem to fidgit on the pedals to 
get in the sweet spot. Plus I’m not so keen on the nasty pedal strike on shin 
that can occur. So I was thinking about trying some power grips on my commuter 
instead. 

As I said, I’m still trying to adjust to the VPs (I’m a clipless guy). If I 
want to try the power grips after all is said and done I’ll give you a shout. 

Thanks for your offer!
J.
> On Aug 7, 2016, at 5:34 AM, jim <4421...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I have a like new pair if you're still looking.
> 
> Jim (Madison, WI)
> 
> On Friday, August 5, 2016 at 1:13:28 PM UTC-5, John Bokman wrote:
> Hi all. 
> 
> I'm interested in buying a set of MKS Touring pedals (maybe they used to be 
> called Sylvan if memory serves?) that Riv used to sell. 
> Or I'd gladly trade for a pair of well-used but perfectly functional MKS 
> Sneaker pedals.
> 
> Thanks.
> John
> 
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[RBW] WTB: 56 or 58cm Sam Hillborne frame/fork

[John Bokman]

Hello all. 
I am hoping to find an old- school 56 cm or newer-school 58cm Sam 
Hillborne, preferably just frame and fork. I own a 60cm and want to 
downsize.

Please contact me off list.

John

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[RBW] Re: Low riders on the Saluki

[John Bokman]

I can't speak for Ortlieb use, since I'm a Lone Peak guy, but the Tara gets 
my vote for sure. Excellent quality. Strong, stiff, light. Easy to mount. I 
use the Tubus brackets that fit around the forks for mounting since the 
fork braze ons are in the wrong place for the Tara.  Much nicer than 
P-clamps in my book.

J.
On Wednesday, January 18, 2017 at 6:46:59 PM UTC-8, Justin August wrote:
>
> Hey folks-
> Which low-riders would you recommend for mounting Ortlieb panniers up from 
> on a Saluki? I would probably not keep them on all time and would have a 
> basket up top. I already own and have mounted a Marks Rack but am not 
> averse to buying something that supersedes it's use. 
>
> -Justin
>

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[RBW] 2009 Geometry charts?

[John Bokman]

Hi all. I'm looking for the Geo chart for the 2009 model year. Specifically 
I'm looking for the Hillborne specs. It has undergone some changes since 
then - notably frame size differences.

Thanks for any help you can offer.

John

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Re: [RBW] Re: 2009 Geometry charts?

[john Bokman]

Thank you Garth! This is exactly what I was looking for. Could not find it on 
Cyclofiend.

J.
> On Jan 19, 2017, at 12:28 PM, Garth <garth...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> You may mean this one ?
> 
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwiqqlgYXXvxNGo3ZVFTWHZBNkE/view?usp=sharing 
> <https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwiqqlgYXXvxNGo3ZVFTWHZBNkE/view?usp=sharing>
> 
> 
> On Wednesday, January 18, 2017 at 11:56:35 PM UTC-5, John Bokman wrote:
> Hi all. I'm looking for the Geo chart for the 2009 model year. Specifically 
> I'm looking for the Hillborne specs. It has undergone some changes since then 
> - notably frame size differences.
> 
> Thanks for any help you can offer.
> 
> John
> 
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Re: [RBW] Re: 2009 Geometry charts?

[john Bokman]

Thanks Ryan, I forgot about that resource (for shame!).
> On Jan 19, 2017, at 10:49 AM, Ryan Fleming <ryanmalloryflem...@gmail.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Cyclofiend's site perhaps? Just a guess
> 
> On Wednesday, January 18, 2017 at 10:56:35 PM UTC-6, John Bokman wrote:
> Hi all. I'm looking for the Geo chart for the 2009 model year. Specifically 
> I'm looking for the Hillborne specs. It has undergone some changes since then 
> - notably frame size differences.
> 
> Thanks for any help you can offer.
> 
> John
> 
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Re: [RBW] My Cantis cant get no respect.

[John Bokman]

Curious if you've tried the VO Zeste Cantis on another bike? They look like 
well designed brakes.

On Saturday, January 14, 2017 at 9:03:13 PM UTC-8, Ash A wrote:
>
> Wish I had known about these before I got VO Zeste Cantis for the 
> Appaloosa I'm going to build soon.  Given the tire clearance (I had to see 
> A picture of it mounted on an MTB to fully get the idea) and fraction of 
> the price, they were worth trying even if it meant giving them away 
> later for whatever reason.   
>
> I have V-brakes on a Gary Fisher Marlin that I have owned since 2007.  I'm 
> pretty certain I'm not technical enough, but I've never felt modulation 
> issue in 2000 or so miles I've ridden it. 
>
> Having said that, I do think Cantis look way more pleasing on Riv style 
> bikes.  
>
>
>
> On Thursday, January 12, 2017, George Schick  > wrote:
>
>> If I'm not mistaken, those are Tektro 857AL brakes.  They have the extra 
>> long 110mm arms for fender clearance.  I bought one a few years ago for my 
>> Surly 1x1 that has wheels with 60mm Big Apple tires covered by SKS P65 MTB 
>> fenders.  They just clear the fenders with a couple of mm's to spare.
>>
>> On Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 7:56:26 PM UTC-6, Mark in Beacon wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi, can't find a model # on them. For a little while Riv sold a V-brake, 
>>> but I don't see them on the website currently. I would think if you call 
>>> Rivendell and ask what model was used on the first gen Clem completes 
>>> somebody will know.
>>>
>>> On Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 4:18:07 PM UTC-5, Ash A wrote:

 Hi Mark,

 Those V-brakes look quite good!  Any idea what Tektro model is it?

 Thanks,

 -Ash

 On Wednesday, 11 January 2017 18:36:04 UTC-8, Mark in Beacon wrote:
>
> I think this came up not long ago on the iBoB list. Not all V brakes 
> are created equally when it comes to clearance. I found a helpful list on 
> gravelbike:
>
> http://www.gravelbike.com/v-brake-arm-lengths/
>
> The stock Tektros on my Clementine cleared a 2 inch tire with fender 
> no problem.
>
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, January 11, 2017 at 7:17:20 AM UTC-5, Eric Daume wrote:
>>
>> Different experiences, Steve. I've used V brakes since the Shimano 
>> introduced them in '96, and I have zero complaints for their modulation. 
>> I 
>> will admit they can make fenders over big tires challenging.
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 10, 2017 at 10:14 PM, Steve Palincsar  
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 01/10/2017 07:13 PM, Eric Daume wrote:
>>>
 I'll say, V brakes are the ones that don't seem to get any respect. 
 Cantis still have some cool factor from the 'cross crowd, but V brake 
 seem 
 mostly relegated to cheap hybrids. But if you look at power, cost, 
 weight, 
 modulation, and set up ease, I think V's would at least get a podium 
 finish 
 in every category.



>>> A prize for modulation?  They give prizes for not having any?  In my 
>>> - admittedly limited - experience, V brakes have all the modulation of 
>>> an 
>>> electric light switch and all the simplicity of the binary numbering 
>>> system: ON and OFF with nothing in between.  Then, there's butt ugly, 
>>> incompatible with standard brake levers and integrated brake/shift 
>>> levers 
>>> and interference with fenders to add to their "charms."
>>>
>>>
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>>
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>
>
> -- 
>
> www.freerice.com
> play and feed a hungry person
>
>
>

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For 

[RBW] Re: Helmets... what do you like?

[John Bokman]

I have a Bell Citi helmet in loud yellow with a visor. I like the visor 
because I use it to attach my "Take a Look" mirror, which I've really come 
to depend on after getting used to it. (Yes, it took me quite a while to 
get used to a rear view mirror sticking off the end of my helmet.)

However, a problem with the helmet, at least for my head: when riding at 
speed (say down a long descent), the back of my head, near the ears, begins 
to hurt. I think this is caused by wind getting under the visor and thus 
shifting the helmet ever so slightly on my head, but I can't be sure. Which 
makes me want to take the visor off. But then I loose my mirror. (I have 
tried the mirror on glasses and don't like it nearly as much as helmet 
mounted.)

Does anyone else have this problem with their helmet?

On Saturday, September 10, 2016 at 9:06:41 PM UTC-7, Surlyprof wrote:
>
> I've been using a helmet that the designers at Specialized gave me several 
> years ago.  It's a nice helmet but it's getting pretty grungy and probably 
> needs to be replaced.  Having only spent about $50 or $60 on helmets in the 
> past 20 years, I figured it's time to pony up for a new helmet.  As I 
> started to search I was amazed at (1) the range of helmets I'd never seen; 
> (2) some of the new innovations that are coming out and; (3) some of the 
> prices that helmets are hitting these days.  I may just try to ping on 
> friends in the industry for another freebie but I use it so often, I may 
> actually get picky and open the wallet for this one. I'm not looking to 
> start a pro-helmet/anti-helmet debate, just looking for insights from those 
> who use 'em.  What are people liking out there and why?  I'd love to hear 
> everyone's latest thoughts on helmets.
>
>  
>
> BTW... I did go down the "folding helmet rabbit hole" when I was 
> searching.  Some crazy new things coming out.  
>
>
> http://www.treehugger.com/bikes/dash-and-stash-stash-folding-bike-helmet.html
>
> http://www.morpherhelmet.com/
>
>
> https://store.moma.org/museum/moma/ProductDisplay_Fuga-Foldable-Helmet_10451_10001_227971_-1_26715_11506_221954?gclid=CIC3h9Szhs8CFY9bfgodLwoAkg
>
>
> http://www.backcountrygear.com/madillo.html?gclid=CPD56pq0hs8CFQtnfgodRS4JwA
>
>
> https://www.amazon.com/Overade-Foldable-Folding-Bicycle-Helmet/dp/B00TA4TF4E
>
> http://www.thinkbiologic.com/products/pango-folding-helmet
>
>  
>
> ...and my wife found this one: http://www.ecohelmet.com/
>
>  
>
> John “Not wearing a paper helmet anytime soon”
>

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[RBW] Re: SOMA xpress tires

[John Bokman]

I have used the New Xpress in 700x37mm. I like these tires for commuting, 
and I'd gladly use them on tour. They have what they call hypertex casing 
which I believe is a armored belt that's pretty light. They are very 
similar to the Pasella TG I used to use. I believe one problem with the 
tread design is that they tend to pick up glass. However, after writing 
this, I've only had one flat in 1000k, and that was due to higher pressure 
in the tires than I'd usually run (70psi was pumped in by a mechanic after 
he'd trued a wheel for me; I'd usually run 50psi). To my tastes ( I use 
Compass Barlow Pass EL on my "fast" bike), this is a good all-around tire. 
Decent road feel, decent flat prevention, not super light but not heavy 
either. Good value for money in my opinion if using for commuter or touring 
tire.


On Friday, September 9, 2016 at 8:10:46 AM UTC-7, Chris Birkenmaier wrote:
>
> Anyone try these yet?  If so, what are your thoughts?  I love the feel of 
> Compass and Panaracer tires and am always on the look out for similar type 
> tires to try.  I'd be getting the 650b if I buy them.  A bit narrower at 38 
> then I normally shoot for but I have a lot of bikes that have different 
> tire tolerances, so they would be useable at that width.
>

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[RBW] Re: Toyo Atlantis Shimmy ???

[John Bokman]

I had frustrations with shimmy at low to moderate speed (10-15 MPH) while 
sitting upright cruising along a flat road on my Sam. Couldn't figure it 
out. Had the LBS check it out: wheels, frame alignment, etc. They found 
nothing. Tightened the headset to offer more friction and that didn't help. 
What did help was sliding my saddle just a fraction forward toward the 
bottom bracket. Just a smidge. I had the saddle all the way back on the 
rails (a Berthoud saddle, don't know how long the rails are offhand). Just 
 a nudge forward did the trick.



On Tuesday, August 23, 2016 at 3:34:23 PM UTC-7, Tony McG wrote:
>
> This bike has descended hills on SE Minnesota and NE Iowa gravel roads at 
> over 40 mph with no problems, but I haven't had a chance to try those hills 
> since the spacer was put in last Winter. It is the low speed without hands 
> wobble that Bill describes that is bothering me. Since the needle bearing 
> headset appears to be more of a band aide than a cure, I am going to hold 
> off throwing parts at the bike until I try changing tire pressures or even 
> swap out the Cazaderos for  a set of Schwalbe Dureme that I have laying 
> around. Thanks again everyone!
>

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[RBW] WTB: Grundens Rain Cape

[John Bokman]

Looking for a rain cape! 

Thanks.

John

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[RBW] WTB: Large Saddlebag

[John Bokman]

Greetings. My wife's bike got stolen yesterday. As a result, she lost her 
years old, but in excellent condition  Carradice Camper long flap saddlebag 
in the process.

Does anyone out there have a Carradice or newer Riv style large saddlebag 
they are interested in selling?

John


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[RBW] Re: Berthoud Saddles

[John Bokman]

I switched several years ago from Brooks B-17 which I had ridden on for 
years on several bikes. i had issues with decomposition of B-17s over time 
to where they became uncomfortable - even with the "Select" version. Also, 
I found as I began to ride in a more forward leaning manner (lowered my 
bars for more comfort, contrary to what is often preached here), the B-17 
shape didn't work for me. 

So I switched to Berthoud and have been happy as a clam ever since. I've 
been riding the Aspin now for about 3 years. Better quality (thicker, 
stiffer leather; no hamered rivets to eventually dig into ones backside as 
the leather around the rivet wears; completely rebuildable saddle because 
the saddle is bolted to the rails, not hammered in. Just a better design, 
in my opinion.

Caveat: it took me 500 miles to break the saddle to where riding anything 
more than 20 miles was comfortable. But, after 3 years, the saddle is 
broken, but not broken. Just thicker, stiffer material that will last much 
longer, I am sure. Highly recommended.

John

On Sunday, October 16, 2016 at 12:42:55 PM UTC-7, Don Compton wrote:
>
> I've been a Rivendell fan for years having owned 4 different bikes. I used 
> B-17 saddles for years, but with wear, as the area under my sit bones would 
> settle, the hump in the saddle( running for-aft) would cause extreme 
> discomfort. I just had to give up on Brooks. I have been using a Secialized 
> Phenom for about a year, but it's not so great on longer rides like I 
> remember my Brooks in the early years of ownership. Has anyone with issues 
> similar to mine switched over to a Berthoud saddle and felt some 
> improvement?
>

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Re: [RBW] My Cantis cant get no respect.

[John Bokman]

I have the Tektro 720 on my 2009  Sam, and have been impressed with their 
power and good enough modulation. Inexpensive, too. But I do get 
significant brake shudder. I was surprised to read that Jan says the 720s 
are too flexible to function optimally. I haven't noticed this. Logic would 
tell me if I'm experiencing brake shudder, the fork is flexing under load 
and the brake's stiffness is not a factor. What am I missing?

On Wednesday, January 11, 2017 at 8:25:56 AM UTC-8, Matt B. wrote:
>
> I like tektros 720s for modern cantis. The wider profile works great, 
> they're nicely made and and have a brilliant hanger design. For my older 
> bikes with 65-75mm post spacing the diacompe 981 or 983 are golden for the 
> money.
>
> On Wednesday, January 11, 2017 at 7:42:45 AM UTC-5, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>>
>> Steve, I agree with you about Jan's riding, vs my riding.  He is a more 
>> powerful rider and rides more aggressively than I.  No doubt he pushes 
>> brakes to the limit, in a way that I rarely do just the occasional 
>> escape the pick-up that just right hooked me; and then I don't care about 
>> modulation at all.
>>
>> I also agree with people about set up.  I have had 4 different cantis - 
>> shimano, tectro, di-compe and Pauls.  The shimano weren't too bad but the 
>> cable pull wasn't matched to SIS ultegra levers.  The di-compe weren't too 
>> bad to set up, but the power was disappointing.  The tectros baffled me 
>> completely.  After some experience, I find the Pau's a breeze to set up.
>>
>> Michael
>>
>> On Tuesday, January 10, 2017 at 5:38:52 PM UTC-5, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On 01/10/2017 05:06 PM, Michael Hechmer wrote: 
>>> > Probably like a lot of us, I got an email announcing a Jan Hein blog 
>>> > comparing rim & disk brakes.  Now, I have almost no experience with 
>>> > disk brakes but much of what I read makes me think they could be a 
>>> > good choice for some bikes.  I found myself saying, not my experience, 
>>> >  when he compared posted CP and canti brakes. Jan has a phenomenal 
>>> > amount of experience that's hard to challenge, but  My experience 
>>> > of modulation with good, and I emphasize good, cantis has not been any 
>>> > less than with good CP brakes.  The issue of shutter, which he raises 
>>> > with cantis, because they mount lower on the fork than CP brakes, 
>>> > seems, to me, to be related to the skill of the bike builder. 
>>>
>>> And also, evidently, shudder is particularly common with carbon forks. 
>>>
>>> > 
>>> > Here's my experience with Cantis vs CP brakes.  My early Saluki, with 
>>> > Paul's cantis offers excellent stopping power and modulation that is 
>>> > just as good as the Pauls's CP brakes on my Rambouilet.  I originally 
>>> > had Pauls posted CP on my tandem with 38 mm tires and converted the 
>>> > frame to cantis in order to go to 45mm and switched to Paul's 
>>> > neo-retros.  There is no difference in modulation, the cantis might 
>>> > offer a minute amount of extra braking (when set up properly). 
>>> >  However a tandem might not be an exact comparison to braking on a 
>>> > single.  The extra mass is huge, but the extra weight in the rear (no 
>>> > offense honey) helps to keep the rear wheel planted and adds to rear 
>>> > braking power. 
>>> > 
>>>
>>> Quoting from the blog entry: "The problem is that the stiff [cantilever] 
>>> brake is attached to the flexible fork blades or seatstays, which 
>>> twist when you brake very hard. This changes the toe-in of the brake 
>>> pads and results in poor modulation."  If you have sufficiently stiff 
>>> fork blades and seat stays, this won't happen; and if you don't brake 
>>> "very hard" (which, from what I gather reading his many comments on 
>>> this, is something most of us never do - at least, not as hard as he 
>>> does) it won't happen. 
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Hillborne 6-degree upsloping top tube

[John Bokman]

I'm trying to discern if there's any real (not imagined) physical 
properties of the upsloping top tube on my 2009 Sam that would make it a 
sluggish climber. I've never cared for the aesthetics of the sloped frame, 
so I'm thinking it could be in my head. But the truth is, I've always felt 
the bike is sluggish climbing, and I'm curious what other's think. Granted, 
tires make a big difference, but regardless of tires and tire pressures 
(I've used many variants), the result is the same for me: sluggish 
climbing. Whatever you do, please don't tell me it's the motor!

 

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[RBW] Re: Hillborne 6-degree upsloping top tube

[John Bokman]

I have  not timed myself, nor do I plan to, but that's a good point. It's 
not important to me how slow or fast I actually am, but how I FEEL when on 
the bike. And for me, the Sam never FEELS springy when I'm climbing. I 
suspect it's a function of the frame size more than the geometry or tubing. 

I would totally agree about the Cadillac feel of the bike when on the flats 
and downhill. That's exactly how I think of the Sam. I just wish it had a 
little more juice when grinding up the pass. It rides like my Toyota Matrix 
up the hills.

On Friday, January 6, 2017 at 6:26:12 AM UTC-8, Philip Kim wrote:
>
> John, have you done a time test? Maybe borrow a bike that feels faster for 
> a couple of days. Ride up the same hill with both bikes, the hillborne 
> first, and then the "faster bike" next? Then reverse the order the next day 
> and compare times?
>
> I have found riding on many Rivs, it's a very stable and Cadillac-type of 
> ride, which can be deceptively quick for such a useful bike.
>
> My usual morning commute is mostly uphill in the morning. I found the Hunq 
> comparable in time with my lighter-tubed BDB Pelican. I ride the Pelican 
> mostly because it's more enjoyable to ride uphill, but it only gets me to 
> work faster by a minute or two.
>
> So if the way the bike rides is something you can't get along with, then 
> you should get a bike with geometry for the type of ride you are looking 
> for. If you like your ride, it will only get you on the bike more. For this 
> same reason, get a bike with a level top tube. The Atlantis is a bit more 
> burly than the Hillborne, so the A Homer Hilsen or Roadeo might be 
> something to look into, or possibly the Roadini, but I doubt level  top 
> tubes will be prominent on Riv-production bikes. There are too many sizes 
> to accommodate for.
>
>
>
> On Thursday, January 5, 2017 at 7:53:23 PM UTC-5, John Bokman wrote:
>>
>> Joe, it does feel calmer. That's a good way to put it. Descends very 
>> well, excellent on the flats, stable, comfortable...all the attributes one 
>> would associate with a Rivendell. I have often wondered if it isn't just a 
>> size issue. That is, I was between sizes and was encouraged to go up and 
>> get the biggest I could fit. In retrospect, I wonder if the smaller size 
>> would have "felt" speedier up hills. It's a moot point now, but it has 
>> bugged me ever since 2009. The way the frame is designed almost begs you to 
>> get the smaller of the two frame sizes that will fit, because the design 
>> seems all about getting the bars up there really easily. As it is  now, I 
>> had to get a 7cm stem (to effectively shorten the top tube), and it's 
>> slammed down as far as it can go. Yet my PBH is 89-90 depending on how hard 
>> I cram the book up into my crotch, which is definitely 60cm Sam worthy.
>>
>> On Thursday, January 5, 2017 at 3:57:04 PM UTC-8, Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
>>> I think that's probably it, John. Using the reverse direction down hill, 
>>> I have an Appaloosa and a Brompton, two almost comically different bikes. 
>>> The Appaloosa descends smoothly and confidently, then if I head down the 
>>> same hill with the tiny-wheeled folder the next day, the same speed feels 
>>> like I'm going 100mph and I dare not put too much input into the bars. 
>>>
>>> The practical effect is I descend slower on the Brommie, which would 
>>> mirror your experiences. I suspect your Sam is a great bike which feels 
>>> calmer in general than the other, which translates into a slower feel on 
>>> climbs. 
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Hillborne 6-degree upsloping top tube

[John Bokman]

Bill, thanks for the  thoughts. I actually do think the type of bike is 
good for me, because I regularly haul heavy groceries - easily 30 pounds. I 
don't expect the Sam to be sprightly when I'm hauling weight, of course 
(wouldn't that be nice?). It's the when I remove all the weight and climb 
the same hill and don't feel much less encumbered that annoys me. I suspect 
that you are correct, and that my intuition has been correct and that the 
60 fits less well than a smaller frame would, regardless of what my PBH 
says.

For the record, I've never expected the Sam to ride like a "road" bike. But 
I've always been surprised that, as nice as it is on the flats and 
downhill, it does not climb better for me.

On Friday, January 6, 2017 at 7:41:27 AM UTC-8, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Given your height of 6'0" and your weight of 155lbs, I tend to think that 
> it's a combination of things.  If you aren't loading the bike down with 
> gear, then it's easy to consider a San overbuilt for you and for how you 
> are using it.  It's a country bike. It says so right on the decals.  If 
> that's the case, a flexier bike with thinner and/or skinnier top tube and 
> down tube could feel snappier. 
>
> My suggestions would include deciding if you want a country bike. If you 
> do, embrace that the Sam is a country bike.  If you want a sprightly road 
> bike also, start targeting that. You mentioned the Atlantis, and it's a 
> legendary touring bike, but it's also not a sprightly road bike.  A 150lb 
> rider on a stripped down Atlantis May similarly feel the bike is WAY 
> overbuilt for the load. 
>
> Where do you live?  We could brainstorm the bikes you could try out. 
>
> Bill
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Hillborne 6-degree upsloping top tube

[John Bokman]

Bill, your number one is about it.

I understand that Grant designed the Hillborne to fit many riders within a 
given range. I could have chosen a 56 or 60 Sam, as there was nothing in 
between. From what I understand, less models were needed because of the 
sloping top tube and how it effectively brings the bars up that much 
higher, so it can fit more riders. While I realize there are many factors 
to what makes a bike feel fast or not so fast (wheels, tires, chain stay 
length, etc., take your pick), I am curious about the geometry of the frame 
and how it may or may not affect what I consider sluggish climbing. I'm 
making no complaints as to the design of the bike, and I understand why 
Grant drew this one up the way he did (from what I understand, I could be 
wrong). Although I admit that aesthetically I don't like the sloping top 
tube, it may not have anything to do with how the bike rides. I guess I was 
wondering out loud how others feel about their bikes with 6 degree 
upsloping top tubes as relates to climbing. 

On Thursday, January 5, 2017 at 3:19:29 PM UTC-8, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> There is a question implied in there, but I'm not quite sure what it is. 
>  I'll guess at the question:
>
> 1.  "If I hypothetically had a frame builder cut the top tube out of my 
> Hillborne frame, and replace it with an identical top tube (same diameter, 
> wall thickness) that was level, leaving my fit identical, would my bike 
> climb better?"
>
> If that's the question, then my answer is: No.  
>
> Stated in the reverse:
>
> 2.  "If I hypothetically took a "good climbing bike" with a level top 
> tube, and had a frame builder remove the top tube and replace it with an 
> identical 6-degree sloping top tube, leaving my fit the same, would that 
> bike become a sluggish climber?"
>
> If that's the question, then my answer is: No.  
>
> Guessing at another question:
>
> 3.  "I feel my Hillborne is a sluggish climber.  Do you think I'm wrong to 
> feel that?"
>
> If that's the question, then my answer is: No, you are entitled to feel 
> whatever you want to feel about your bike or anybody's bike.  
>
> Final guess at the question:
>
> 4.  "I suspect that the Hillborne is a categorically poor climber, for 
> every rider and every possible setup.  I suspect the fatal flaw is the top 
> tube slope.  Do you agree?"
>
> If that's the question, then my answer is: No, I do not agree.  Some 
> riders (me included) feel that their Hillborne is not a sluggish climber.
>
> and the (really final!) followup:
>
> 4.1.  "If my Hillborne is a sluggish climber, and if it's not because of 
> the sloping TT, then what should I change to "fix" my Hillborne?"
>
> If that's the question, then my answer is: "it depends.  Let's have a look 
> at it"
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA 
>
>
>
> On Thursday, January 5, 2017 at 2:29:16 PM UTC-8, John Bokman wrote:
>>
>> I'm trying to discern if there's any real (not imagined) physical 
>> properties of the upsloping top tube on my 2009 Sam that would make it a 
>> sluggish climber. I've never cared for the aesthetics of the sloped frame, 
>> so I'm thinking it could be in my head. But the truth is, I've always felt 
>> the bike is sluggish climbing, and I'm curious what other's think. Granted, 
>> tires make a big difference, but regardless of tires and tire pressures 
>> (I've used many variants), the result is the same for me: sluggish 
>> climbing. Whatever you do, please don't tell me it's the motor!
>>
>>  
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Hillborne 6-degree upsloping top tube

[John Bokman]

Of course! I've had my eye on the Atlantis, the Long-Low, the All-Rounder, 
to name a few over the years.

To my mind, aside from the gorgeous customs I've seen, the Atlantis has to 
be my favorite Rivendell of al time.

On Thursday, January 5, 2017 at 4:13:36 PM UTC-8, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> John 
>
> I was hoping your real question was:  "I'm not sure about my Hillborne, so 
> is it OK if I buy another bike?" 
>
> That's an easy YES. 

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[RBW] Re: Hillborne 6-degree upsloping top tube

[John Bokman]

Yes Garth, I do have a different bike, and it's quite different, and I'm 
sure that does indeed affect my perception of the Sam. 

On Thursday, January 5, 2017 at 3:19:12 PM UTC-8, Garth wrote:
>
> Maybe you are comparing it another bike with a more mid or low trail 
> geometry ?   Yes, when I change from my sport touring bike with neutral 
> handling to my Bombadil it feels downtight wierd every time , but now it 
> passes quickly.  That wierd could be called sluggish by someone else, since 
> especially on steeper climbs and standing the bike feels resistant to 
> handlebar input compared to what I am most accustomed to.   As for actual 
> differences in speed there is none, just different ways to do the same 
> thing. 

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[RBW] Re: Hillborne 6-degree upsloping top tube

[John Bokman]

Lum, Dave:

I think you are right. I was really on the fence about the size when 
consulting with Jay. He asked if I was planning to use the bike off road, 
and at the time I was thinking I might use it offload only 10% of the time, 
so he counseled me to go to the bigger size. In retrospect, knowing what I 
know now about the length of the top tube, which has always felt too long, 
I don't think the terrain matters. The smaller size would have been better. 
I think Lum is right in my not being able to muscle the large bike. While 
I'd love to get to the point where I can ascend mountains in the saddle, 
I'm often out of the saddle on all my bikes, always have been. I need all 
the leverage and muscle recruitment I can get.

So what I have learned about this particular frame (can't speak for any 
other models, even different year of the same model, as Dave points out): 
Being that I ride drops with a long reach (noodles) and that my legs are 
long relative to my torso, and the fact that I'm a light, not-powerful 
rider, the smaller frame would have been a better cal, of me. Maybe not for 
someone else. If I'd been local and could have ridden different sizes, I 
would likely have gone to the smaller frame, I think. Live and learn.

On Saturday, January 7, 2017 at 2:42:24 PM UTC-8, Dave Johnston wrote:
>
> The newer Sams have slightly shorter effective top tubes relative to their 
> seat tubes than the first generation ones. The 60cm model had a 61cm top 
> tube and today's 58cm model has a 59cm effective top tube. That may work 
> better for you with drop bars and maybe worse with upright bars. 
>
> The 2016 and on 58cm model will have a single top tube as well. Does your 
> bike have a double top tube? I would guess that a double top tube would 
> make a bike less lively, but more tour worthy. If you are more leg than 
> torso I would have recommended going down in size vs up as long as the bars 
> would end up where you want them. Smaller bikes tend to feel more lively 
> and bigger ones tend to be more stable because of the longer wheelbase, but 
> I'm dubious there is a speed difference.
>
> I believe that the early Sams had thinner wall tubes but I can't find the 
> specs on those. The "Silver" tubes on the current models are pretty darn 
> thick. The top tube on the 55cm is 0.9 - 0.7mm and the downtube 1.1 - 
> 0.8mm. I think some of the tubes are single butted.
>
> I have a early 56cm Atlantis and have always found it sluggish feeling 
> compared to 56 Ram and 57 Bleriot. Its a good tourer and can fit 2" tires, 
> so its a better trail rider, so that is a trade off I accept and I still 
> find rides fun on almost any bike, but the Atlantis did not work out as the 
> "bike for all uses" because of that. It can do it all, but it is not as 
> much fun on unloaded zippy day rides. I believe the current Atlantis has 
> thicker tubing than the early generation ones, but Riv doesn't like to talk 
> about tubing so I'm not sure.
>
>
> -Dave J
>
>
> On Thursday, January 5, 2017 at 5:29:16 PM UTC-5, John Bokman wrote:
>>
>> I'm trying to discern if there's any real (not imagined) physical 
>> properties of the upsloping top tube on my 2009 Sam that would make it a 
>> sluggish climber. I've never cared for the aesthetics of the sloped frame, 
>> so I'm thinking it could be in my head. But the truth is, I've always felt 
>> the bike is sluggish climbing, and I'm curious what other's think. Granted, 
>> tires make a big difference, but regardless of tires and tire pressures 
>> (I've used many variants), the result is the same for me: sluggish 
>> climbing. Whatever you do, please don't tell me it's the motor!
>>
>>  
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Hillborne 6-degree upsloping top tube

[John Bokman]

Forgot to mention, mine is the single top tube Sam. I don't remember an 
option for a 2X top tube in 2009.

On Saturday, January 7, 2017 at 2:42:24 PM UTC-8, Dave Johnston wrote:
>
> The newer Sams have slightly shorter effective top tubes relative to their 
> seat tubes than the first generation ones. The 60cm model had a 61cm top 
> tube and today's 58cm model has a 59cm effective top tube. That may work 
> better for you with drop bars and maybe worse with upright bars. 
>
> The 2016 and on 58cm model will have a single top tube as well. Does your 
> bike have a double top tube? I would guess that a double top tube would 
> make a bike less lively, but more tour worthy. If you are more leg than 
> torso I would have recommended going down in size vs up as long as the bars 
> would end up where you want them. Smaller bikes tend to feel more lively 
> and bigger ones tend to be more stable because of the longer wheelbase, but 
> I'm dubious there is a speed difference.
>
> I believe that the early Sams had thinner wall tubes but I can't find the 
> specs on those. The "Silver" tubes on the current models are pretty darn 
> thick. The top tube on the 55cm is 0.9 - 0.7mm and the downtube 1.1 - 
> 0.8mm. I think some of the tubes are single butted.
>
> I have a early 56cm Atlantis and have always found it sluggish feeling 
> compared to 56 Ram and 57 Bleriot. Its a good tourer and can fit 2" tires, 
> so its a better trail rider, so that is a trade off I accept and I still 
> find rides fun on almost any bike, but the Atlantis did not work out as the 
> "bike for all uses" because of that. It can do it all, but it is not as 
> much fun on unloaded zippy day rides. I believe the current Atlantis has 
> thicker tubing than the early generation ones, but Riv doesn't like to talk 
> about tubing so I'm not sure.
>
>
> -Dave J
>
>
> On Thursday, January 5, 2017 at 5:29:16 PM UTC-5, John Bokman wrote:
>>
>> I'm trying to discern if there's any real (not imagined) physical 
>> properties of the upsloping top tube on my 2009 Sam that would make it a 
>> sluggish climber. I've never cared for the aesthetics of the sloped frame, 
>> so I'm thinking it could be in my head. But the truth is, I've always felt 
>> the bike is sluggish climbing, and I'm curious what other's think. Granted, 
>> tires make a big difference, but regardless of tires and tire pressures 
>> (I've used many variants), the result is the same for me: sluggish 
>> climbing. Whatever you do, please don't tell me it's the motor!
>>
>>  
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Hillborne 6-degree upsloping top tube

[john Bokman]

Joe, that’s pretty intuitive on your part. You may be right; it could be time 
to roll on some new wheels. 

I’m always interested in hearing how other rider’s perceptions may or may not 
jibe with mine. Every rider has an opinion, and each opinion is completely 
valid. It’s nutty how for one rider, a bike will shimmy, and for another it’s 
rock solid, for example. So many factors play into every bike and rider 
relationship. I’m a relatively tall (6 feet even), light (buck fifty-five at 
most) rider, with long legs and short torso. So maybe the Sam has always felt 
larger to me than it would or does to a rider who may have the same PBH but a 
substantially more heavily muscled body, for example. Or longer torso compared 
to legs. In my opinion, my 60 cm 2009 Sam could be a really good fit for a 6’2” 
rider with even longer legs than I have, due to the way the bike is put 
together (long reach noodle bars with a longish stem, for example).

I guess my take away is that, at least concerning the Rivendell sizing 
parameters, given the choice of two Sams all over again, I’d do best to choose 
the smaller frame. For others - even with the same exact dimensions - it could 
be the opposite. And it might be different for a different frame, which I guess 
is a long way around restating my original querry and why I broached the 
subject of the sloping top tube.

Thanks everyone for the comments. It’s been an interesting learning experience.
> On Jan 5, 2017, at 5:30 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
> 
> John, beyond the other factors that have been discussed, I think you just 
> aren't happy with that particular frame. You don't like the sloping tube, it 
> feels too big for you, and maybe you're just done with it and it's someone 
> else's turn. 
> 
> This happened to me with a perfectly lovely pewter Saluki a few years ago. I 
> saw one at RBW HQ when they first came out, and loved the color. Years later 
> I bought one and rode it around for a few months, and it just never clicked 
> with me. The color wasn't really my thing (surprisingly), and - opposite of 
> you - the level toptube made the bike feel tall for my creaky old legs when 
> getting on and off. So I sold it, and now have a sloping-tube Appaloosa in a 
> lovely light blue. It's perfect! You need a new bike, bro. Get something 
> you're crazy about and move that Sam down the highway. 
> 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Hillborne 6-degree upsloping top tube

[john Bokman]

Interesting you mention that, because now the choice is 58cm or 62cm, I 
believe. (In 2009 it was 56 or 60). If the frame is the same as it was in 2009, 
I’d most likely feel I had a better fit with the current 58. That would 
probably be my sweet spot in this frame. Although, the frame may have changed 
since 2009, I don’t know.


> On Jan 5, 2017, at 7:30 PM, Christopher Murray  
> wrote:
> 
> Wasn't the Hillborne designed with the expanded geometry so few sizes would 
> be needed? Fewer sizes means less inventory, less inventory means less $. If 
> I remember right $ was talked about quite a bit with the design of the 
> Hillborne (as the Riv/QBP Bleriot project was winding down). I can't imagine 
> anyone would argue that less sizes is better or fits all riders as well as 
> more sizes would. Doesn't the underlying idea have to be that it fits most 
> riders well enough?  Or to put it another way, if both the 56 and 60 fit 
> couldn't you argue that neither really fit?
> 
> Cheers!
> Chris
> 
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[RBW] Re: Hillborne 6-degree upsloping top tube

[John Bokman]

Joe, it does feel calmer. That's a good way to put it. Descends very well, 
excellent on the flats, stable, comfortable...all the attributes one would 
associate with a Rivendell. I have often wondered if it isn't just a size 
issue. That is, I was between sizes and was encouraged to go up and get the 
biggest I could fit. In retrospect, I wonder if the smaller size would have 
"felt" speedier up hills. It's a moot point now, but it has bugged me ever 
since 2009. The way the frame is designed almost begs you to get the 
smaller of the two frame sizes that will fit, because the design seems all 
about getting the bars up there really easily. As it is  now, I had to get 
a 7cm stem (to effectively shorten the top tube), and it's slammed down as 
far as it can go. Yet my PBH is 89-90 depending on how hard I cram the book 
up into my crotch, which is definitely 60cm Sam worthy.

On Thursday, January 5, 2017 at 3:57:04 PM UTC-8, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> I think that's probably it, John. Using the reverse direction down hill, I 
> have an Appaloosa and a Brompton, two almost comically different bikes. The 
> Appaloosa descends smoothly and confidently, then if I head down the same 
> hill with the tiny-wheeled folder the next day, the same speed feels like 
> I'm going 100mph and I dare not put too much input into the bars. 
>
> The practical effect is I descend slower on the Brommie, which would 
> mirror your experiences. I suspect your Sam is a great bike which feels 
> calmer in general than the other, which translates into a slower feel on 
> climbs. 
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Who makes Canvas Panniers now?

[John Bokman]

Deacon, I'm curious about the attachment system of the Frost River bags. 
They do indeed look rugged and weatherproof, with what I'd consider a good 
shape (wide enough, not just tall). But as for the attachment: I  wonder if 
you have used this buckle system before? In practice, can one get a snug 
enough fit so the bags don't jump about on the rack? I've only used the 
bungee cord system, which works well for me because the bag is under 
tension. Appreciate your thoughts.
J.

On Tuesday, December 20, 2016 at 7:39:05 PM UTC-8, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> Thanks, Jeff. I appreciate it. I've bounced panniers with that mounting 
> system clean off, so I'll stick with the Frost Rivers, which are on the way 
> any road.
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick 
>
> On Tuesday, December 20, 2016 at 8:22:03 PM UTC-7, Jeff wrote:
>>
>> I have a set of the Swift rolltop panniers in waxed canvas that I picked 
>> up from a fellow list member just over a year ago. They're stout and feel 
>> pretty bulletproof. I've used them a couple of times but I tend to turn to 
>> my Ortlieb panniers more often thanks to their superior mounting solution 
>> and lighter weight. I've not formally put them up for sale but if they look 
>> right for you, Deacon, I'm sure we could figure out a way for you to knock 
>> the dust off of 'em. Here's some pictures the original owner/seller took 
>> when he offered them up last year: 
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/jbusteed/sets/72157660475769437/
>>
>> -Jeff
>> Silver Spring, MD
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 9:05 PM, Deacon Patrick  wrote:
>>
>>> You are spot on and no doubt so are my daughters. They know and I know I 
>>> fit in a very different category from them in terms of usage and abuse, 
>>> even when we're on the same trip. Sardonic grin. I used the pair of 
>>> Back-A-Bikes to test out the concept of separate panniers (rather than the 
>>> toursacks) for several runs and the ease of access was fantastic (with full 
>>> Arctic mittens on no less). I will miss that and as in so many things in 
>>> life, there is a trade off. Harder to access for me and for the wet. Grin. 
>>> What I didn't test was days and nights in the soaking wet 2/3rds of the 
>>> time, as happens on many of my trips (since Colorado is so dry!) Grin.
>>>
>>> I grilled the biking guy at Frost River, and he said he's been fairly 
>>> abusive of his and gave some specifics, including brushing brick walls, and 
>>> bushes and laying the bike down on concrete. So we're in the right category 
>>> (as is Riv's series). Frost River does canoe gear for abuse in the field 
>>> and guarantees it forever, so know their stuff from that perspective. Time 
>>> will tell!
>>>
>>> With abandon,
>>> Patrick
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, December 20, 2016 at 6:50:46 PM UTC-7, Mark in Beacon wrote:

 I vote with your daughters. I love the back a bike bags. I don't know 
 if you can beat the ease of frequent access. I have found mine to be a 
 real 
 pleasure to use multiple times each day--love the toggles!  I don't know 
 that the buckles and belts and what have you on other panniers would be 
 more or less likely to snag in the brush. I have not had issues with 
 water, 
 though I do not do the kind of riding you do. Here is a fun little 
 Riv-vid: 
 https://vimeo.com/123971564
  I realize you are looking for something different here, but just 
 wanted to put in another good word for these bags!


 On Tuesday, December 20, 2016 at 1:42:17 PM UTC-5, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> Who makes um and what is your experience with them, especially as it 
> relates to: 
> — ease of access 
> — weatherproof 
> — bikepacking and errand daily use heartiness 
> — other issues that stand out? 
>
> After years of use, with my TourSacks, I discovered just how much play 
> there is with the center load (sleeping bag, pad, tent, hatchet) anchored 
> to the fabric top rather than directly to the rack. (I tried my 
> daughter’s 
> Back-a-Bike bags). But the Back-a-Bike bags do not look weatherproof 
> enough 
> and the wooden chord closure thingy has already snagged on bits of brush 
> and that just on the MUPS. 
>
> Carsick looks to be out of the waxed canvas biz. Frost River’s new 
> Highway 61 look excellent and are my most likely choice. Interestingly, 
> when I talked it over with my daughters, they agree with Grant’s design, 
> preferring ease of access to full weatherproofing. They also don’t go 
> bashing through brush the same way I do. Grin. 
>
> Any others doing waxed canvas panniers out there and what’s your 
> experience with them? 
>
> With abandon, 
> Patrick 
>
> www.OurHolyConception.org 
> www.MindYourHeadCoop.org 
>
>
> -- 
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>>> 

Re: [RBW] Re: Who makes Canvas Panniers now?

[John Bokman]

That sounds like a good setup.

I’d most likely be using these bags on my front panniers: Tubus Tara. The Tara 
has a U-shaped bottom rather than a flat bar. I wonder if this would not be 
optimal for the attachment of the Frost River. 

I wonder if others have used such an attachment system with Tubus Taras or 
similar?


> On Dec 21, 2016, at 1:44 PM, Deacon Patrick <lamontg...@mac.com> wrote:
> 
> Great question, John. My TourSacks were "lash on" (rather than elastic, as 
> you describe), and my experience is lash on systems are far less "playful" on 
> the rack over bumps for the simple reason that elastic gives, lashing does 
> not. My main issue with the TourSacks is the load on top needing a more solid 
> anchor point, not the load in the panniers, which was always solid for me, 
> though I suspect with a combined 4 top-o-rack lashing points on the Frost 
> River (two per pannier) vs. one on the TourSacks, the load will be even more 
> stable. But nothing like testing in real world bashing to find out! Grin.
> 
> I also have the new(well, to me) Nitto big rack (no tombstone, pannier 
> mounting bar) coming, so that will lower CG and improve access for securing 
> the top-load. Combined with a twill saddlesack on the way and a possible 
> frame bag from Frost River, all the niggling challenges I've had are getting 
> ironed out, I hope! Grin.
> 
> With abandon,
> Patrick
> 
> On Wednesday, December 21, 2016 at 2:07:40 PM UTC-7, John Bokman wrote:
> Deacon, I'm curious about the attachment system of the Frost River bags. They 
> do indeed look rugged and weatherproof, with what I'd consider a good shape 
> (wide enough, not just tall). But as for the attachment: I  wonder if you 
> have used this buckle system before? In practice, can one get a snug enough 
> fit so the bags don't jump about on the rack? I've only used the bungee cord 
> system, which works well for me because the bag is under tension. Appreciate 
> your thoughts.
> J.
> 
> On Tuesday, December 20, 2016 at 7:39:05 PM UTC-8, Deacon Patrick wrote:
> Thanks, Jeff. I appreciate it. I've bounced panniers with that mounting 
> system clean off, so I'll stick with the Frost Rivers, which are on the way 
> any road.
> 
> With abandon,
> Patrick 
> 
> On Tuesday, December 20, 2016 at 8:22:03 PM UTC-7, Jeff wrote:
> I have a set of the Swift rolltop panniers in waxed canvas that I picked up 
> from a fellow list member just over a year ago. They're stout and feel pretty 
> bulletproof. I've used them a couple of times but I tend to turn to my 
> Ortlieb panniers more often thanks to their superior mounting solution and 
> lighter weight. I've not formally put them up for sale but if they look right 
> for you, Deacon, I'm sure we could figure out a way for you to knock the dust 
> off of 'em. Here's some pictures the original owner/seller took when he 
> offered them up last year: 
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/jbusteed/sets/72157660475769437/ 
> <https://www.flickr.com/photos/jbusteed/sets/72157660475769437/>
> 
> -Jeff
> Silver Spring, MD
> 
> 
> On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 9:05 PM, Deacon Patrick <lamon...@mac.com <>> wrote:
> You are spot on and no doubt so are my daughters. They know and I know I fit 
> in a very different category from them in terms of usage and abuse, even when 
> we're on the same trip. Sardonic grin. I used the pair of Back-A-Bikes to 
> test out the concept of separate panniers (rather than the toursacks) for 
> several runs and the ease of access was fantastic (with full Arctic mittens 
> on no less). I will miss that and as in so many things in life, there is a 
> trade off. Harder to access for me and for the wet. Grin. What I didn't test 
> was days and nights in the soaking wet 2/3rds of the time, as happens on many 
> of my trips (since Colorado is so dry!) Grin.
> 
> I grilled the biking guy at Frost River, and he said he's been fairly abusive 
> of his and gave some specifics, including brushing brick walls, and bushes 
> and laying the bike down on concrete. So we're in the right category (as is 
> Riv's series). Frost River does canoe gear for abuse in the field and 
> guarantees it forever, so know their stuff from that perspective. Time will 
> tell!
> 
> With abandon,
> Patrick
> 
> 
> On Tuesday, December 20, 2016 at 6:50:46 PM UTC-7, Mark in Beacon wrote:
> I vote with your daughters. I love the back a bike bags. I don't know if you 
> can beat the ease of frequent access. I have found mine to be a real pleasure 
> to use multiple times each day--love the toggles!  I don't know that the 
> buckles and belts and what have you on other panniers would be more or less 
> likely to snag in the brush. I have not had issues wi

[RBW] Re: Iron on patches

[John Bokman]

I have ironed-on a patch to my waxed Baggins Adam saddlebag. It was a bit 
tricky. Wanted to slide around as the wax melted. I would think stitches 
would be better for a long-term relationship, although the patch has stayed 
put for a month now.



On Tuesday, March 28, 2017 at 4:11:39 PM UTC-7, scott wrote:
>
> I have always stitched patches on things. I had a weird morning where I 
> ordered some patches to put on my saddlesack. Anyone ironed on a waxed bag? 
> Does it muss anything up? I should probably still put some stitches anyway, 
> correct? 

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[RBW] Re: Roadini!

[John Bokman]

That Blue looks nice!

Trying to decide if the Roadeo is worth the extra bones. I really love the 
aesthetics of the Roadeo (close to parallel top tube rather than 
upsloping), but based on the literature I've seen, hard to justify the 
extra cash based on ride quality.



On Thursday, August 3, 2017 at 7:20:28 AM UTC-7, Chris Birkenmaier wrote:
>
>
>
> On Thursday, August 3, 2017 at 8:54:35 AM UTC-4, John G. wrote:
>>
>> According to Instagram and the RBW newsletter, Roadini pre-orders are 
>> live for the general public! Anyone on the list order one yet? If so, what 
>> size and color did you go for?
>>
>
>
> John I was on the earlier email notification for the Roadini and ordered a 
> 50 in blue.  I'm getting it repainted by D so I kind of didn't care which 
> one I ordered.  However, according to the newsletter the gray was more 
> popular so I picked the blue one.
>
> Anyone want to share their build plans on the Roadini?
>

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[RBW] Re: Roadini!

[John Bokman]

Sorry. Was speaking to the differences between the Roadini and Roadeo. 
Still dreaming in my own mind!

On Thursday, August 3, 2017 at 7:50:34 PM UTC-7, John Bokman wrote:
>
> Looks like the tubing is different, but to what degree I can't say. The 
> statement that the butted ends are cut down to reduce excess heft doesn't 
> mean much to me since I'm ignorant about the process. I do know that I want 
> a light, svelt feeling road bike. However, my new Sam (2017) tube set is 
> considerably heavier than my old (2009 Sam) tube set, and yet it rides like 
> a dream. Those Silver tubes are heavier, yes, noticeably so (to the hand), 
> but the ride is excellent. So perhaps there's no real noticeable difference 
> in ride quality between the two frame sets?
>
>
>
> On Thursday, August 3, 2017 at 2:51:31 PM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>> That seat cluster is awesome.  I really like the dropout detail shots in 
>> today's newsletter mailer.  
>>
>> Pay attention to the fact that you can't use your vintage 28.6mm front 
>> der.  You need a 31.8 to fit that tapered seat tube.
>>
>> BL in EC
>>
>> On Thursday, August 3, 2017 at 5:54:35 AM UTC-7, John G. wrote:
>>>
>>> According to Instagram and the RBW newsletter, Roadini pre-orders are 
>>> live for the general public! Anyone on the list order one yet? If so, what 
>>> size and color did you go for?
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Roadini!

[John Bokman]

Looks like the tubing is different, but to what degree I can't say. The 
statement that the butted ends are cut down to reduce excess heft doesn't 
mean much to me since I'm ignorant about the process. I do know that I want 
a light, svelt feeling road bike. However, my new Sam (2017) tube set is 
considerably heavier than my old (2009 Sam) tube set, and yet it rides like 
a dream. Those Silver tubes are heavier, yes, noticeably so (to the hand), 
but the ride is excellent. So perhaps there's no real noticeable difference 
in ride quality between the two frame sets?



On Thursday, August 3, 2017 at 2:51:31 PM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> That seat cluster is awesome.  I really like the dropout detail shots in 
> today's newsletter mailer.  
>
> Pay attention to the fact that you can't use your vintage 28.6mm front 
> der.  You need a 31.8 to fit that tapered seat tube.
>
> BL in EC
>
> On Thursday, August 3, 2017 at 5:54:35 AM UTC-7, John G. wrote:
>>
>> According to Instagram and the RBW newsletter, Roadini pre-orders are 
>> live for the general public! Anyone on the list order one yet? If so, what 
>> size and color did you go for?
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Atlantis! Tire question

[john Bokman]

Doug, thanks for the reply.
Yeah, I’m sure the Plus Tours would feel awful sluggish to me. I’m not a 
bruiser by any stretch. A loaded touring bike for me is only about 30 pounds of 
gear, max, so I would not be interested in anything more stout than the 
“regular old Marathon”. Even that might be unnecessary for my purposes. 


> On May 22, 2017, at 12:48 PM, dougP <dougpn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> John:
> 
> No, I haven't tried the Green Guards.  I have used the Plus Tour.  It's even 
> heavier & tougher.  One flat in 6,000 miles on the rear & it was a big screw. 
>  I did notice a big improvement in ride & performance when I went back to 
> Supremes.  I think the Plus Tour is about 2X the weight of the Supreme.
> 
> One of my touring buds uses what is probably the Green Guard.  He refers to 
> them as "regular old Schwalbes, $35 each".  He gets few flats & they last a 
> long time.  He does over 12,000 miles per year.
> 
> IME, once the bike is loaded up, I don't notice as much difference in tires.  
> But without a load, I can definitely notice differences in ride quality & 
> performance such as getting up to speed from a stop.  
> 
> dougP
> 
> On Sunday, May 21, 2017 at 8:37:59 PM UTC-7, John Bokman wrote:
> Doug, I'm curious if you've ever tried your Atlantis with Marathon Green 
> Guards. Wondering how they compare to the Supremes. On paper, the Supremes 
> rein supreme, but in real world conditions I'd be curious. Of course they are 
> heavy, but to paraphrase Grant: "With weight comes good things." I know over 
> at the blog "Cycling About", the author did a tire rolling comparison (drum 
> rollers, not real world) and puncture comparison, and the Marathon Green 
> Guard came out very well indeed - especially considering the price per mile. 
> For a true commuting/touring tire, it looks to be extremely long lasting.
> 
> J.
> 
> 
> 
> On Sunday, May 21, 2017 at 8:12:19 PM UTC-7, dougP wrote:
> Isaac:
> 
> Congratulations on having excellent taste in bikes.  Be sure to post photos 
> when you've rec'd the bike.  
> 
> One of the many beauties of the Atlantis is the ability to fit all sorts of 
> big chubby tires.  While 29+ may be pushing it, for your intended purpose you 
> have tons of good choices.  
> 
> My personal bias is to Schwalbe because I hate flats.  I've been pleased with 
> the 40 mm Marathon Supremes on my 58 cm Atlantis, having used them for many 
> years.  When I was doing more touring (5-6k miles per year) I would only get 
> a flat or 2 per year.  Rear tires lasted a year & fronts a bit longer.  I'm 
> doing about 3,000 miles year now so rarely deal with a flat.  I also don't 
> insist on getting the last mile out of a tire.  
> 
> I've also tried the Marathon Mondials.  They give better traction off 
> pavement, at a penalty in ride & weight.  
> 
> Others have used a wide variety of tires for similar uses so you'll no doubt 
> get plenty of responses with personal use information.  Compass, Soma, et al 
> have all been used with good result.  The trade-off, as always, is puncture 
> resistance and ride vs life span and flat resistance.  You may end up with 
> your own tire inventory.  It's a harmless indulgence.  Enjoy.
> 
> dougP
> 
> On Sunday, May 21, 2017 at 7:31:38 PM UTC-7, Birdman wrote:
> Hi all, 
> 
> I am beyond thrilled to say that I just put a deposit down on a 64 Atlantis 
> with a double tt! Now I get to enjoy many months of anticipation while 
> fantasizing about bike builds... 
> 
> Speaking of which, I always rode 32mm pasellas on my Quickbeam as well as on 
> my current touring bike, because of its relatively narrow crown and chain 
> stays. The option of running larger tires on the Atlantis is part of its 
> appeal for me, but I don't really know where to begin. 
> 
> Any tire size/brand recommendations for commuting and touring with some 
> gravel and dirt roads? I know it all comes down to compromises and personal 
> preferences, but where should I start? 
> 
> Thanks. I haven't posted here in many years. It's great to be coming back to 
> the RBW Owners Bunch. 
> 
> Isaac
> 
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Re: [RBW] Atlantis! Tire question

[john Bokman]

To be specific, a Rivendell bicycle is an amazing device, being able to carry 
loads with ease, while not giving up a great feeling, fun ride.
> On May 22, 2017, at 3:49 PM, dougP <dougpn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> John:
> 
> A bicycle is such an amazing device.  We consider "only about 30 lbs" to be a 
> moderate load.  What else can easily carry more than it's own weight?
> 
> Assuming that the 30 lbs is an occassional load like a lodging tour or an 
> S24O, and most of the time you're riding unloaded, my suggestion would be the 
> Supremes ride better than the Green Guards.  But for double the money they 
> should do something.  
> 
> dougP
> 
> On Monday, May 22, 2017 at 1:35:10 PM UTC-7, John Bokman wrote:
> Doug, thanks for the reply.
> Yeah, I’m sure the Plus Tours would feel awful sluggish to me. I’m not a 
> bruiser by any stretch. A loaded touring bike for me is only about 30 pounds 
> of gear, max, so I would not be interested in anything more stout than the 
> “regular old Marathon”. Even that might be unnecessary for my purposes. 
> 
> 
>> On May 22, 2017, at 12:48 PM, dougP <doug...@ <>gmail.com 
>> <http://gmail.com/>> wrote:
>> 
>> John:
>> 
>> No, I haven't tried the Green Guards.  I have used the Plus Tour.  It's even 
>> heavier & tougher.  One flat in 6,000 miles on the rear & it was a big 
>> screw.  I did notice a big improvement in ride & performance when I went 
>> back to Supremes.  I think the Plus Tour is about 2X the weight of the 
>> Supreme.
>> 
>> One of my touring buds uses what is probably the Green Guard.  He refers to 
>> them as "regular old Schwalbes, $35 each".  He gets few flats & they last a 
>> long time.  He does over 12,000 miles per year.
>> 
>> IME, once the bike is loaded up, I don't notice as much difference in tires. 
>>  But without a load, I can definitely notice differences in ride quality & 
>> performance such as getting up to speed from a stop.  
>> 
>> dougP
>> 
>> On Sunday, May 21, 2017 at 8:37:59 PM UTC-7, John Bokman wrote:
>> Doug, I'm curious if you've ever tried your Atlantis with Marathon Green 
>> Guards. Wondering how they compare to the Supremes. On paper, the Supremes 
>> rein supreme, but in real world conditions I'd be curious. Of course they 
>> are heavy, but to paraphrase Grant: "With weight comes good things." I know 
>> over at the blog "Cycling About", the author did a tire rolling comparison 
>> (drum rollers, not real world) and puncture comparison, and the Marathon 
>> Green Guard came out very well indeed - especially considering the price per 
>> mile. For a true commuting/touring tire, it looks to be extremely long 
>> lasting.
>> 
>> J.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Sunday, May 21, 2017 at 8:12:19 PM UTC-7, dougP wrote:
>> Isaac:
>> 
>> Congratulations on having excellent taste in bikes.  Be sure to post photos 
>> when you've rec'd the bike.  
>> 
>> One of the many beauties of the Atlantis is the ability to fit all sorts of 
>> big chubby tires.  While 29+ may be pushing it, for your intended purpose 
>> you have tons of good choices.  
>> 
>> My personal bias is to Schwalbe because I hate flats.  I've been pleased 
>> with the 40 mm Marathon Supremes on my 58 cm Atlantis, having used them for 
>> many years.  When I was doing more touring (5-6k miles per year) I would 
>> only get a flat or 2 per year.  Rear tires lasted a year & fronts a bit 
>> longer.  I'm doing about 3,000 miles year now so rarely deal with a flat.  I 
>> also don't insist on getting the last mile out of a tire.  
>> 
>> I've also tried the Marathon Mondials.  They give better traction off 
>> pavement, at a penalty in ride & weight.  
>> 
>> Others have used a wide variety of tires for similar uses so you'll no doubt 
>> get plenty of responses with personal use information.  Compass, Soma, et al 
>> have all been used with good result.  The trade-off, as always, is puncture 
>> resistance and ride vs life span and flat resistance.  You may end up with 
>> your own tire inventory.  It's a harmless indulgence.  Enjoy.
>> 
>> dougP
>> 
>> On Sunday, May 21, 2017 at 7:31:38 PM UTC-7, Birdman wrote:
>> Hi all, 
>> 
>> I am beyond thrilled to say that I just put a deposit down on a 64 Atlantis 
>> with a double tt! Now I get to enjoy many months of anticipation while 
>> fantasizing about bike builds... 
>> 
>> Speaking of which, I always rode 32mm pasellas on my Quickbeam as well as on

[RBW] Re: Atlantis! Tire question

[John Bokman]

Doug, I'm curious if you've ever tried your Atlantis with Marathon Green 
Guards. Wondering how they compare to the Supremes. On paper, the Supremes 
rein supreme, but in real world conditions I'd be curious. Of course they 
are heavy, but to paraphrase Grant: "With weight comes good things." I know 
over at the blog "Cycling About", the author did a tire rolling comparison 
(drum rollers, not real world) and puncture comparison, and the Marathon 
Green Guard came out very well indeed - especially considering the price 
per mile. For a true commuting/touring tire, it looks to be extremely long 
lasting.

J.



On Sunday, May 21, 2017 at 8:12:19 PM UTC-7, dougP wrote:
>
> Isaac:
>
> Congratulations on having excellent taste in bikes.  Be sure to post 
> photos when you've rec'd the bike.  
>
> One of the many beauties of the Atlantis is the ability to fit all sorts 
> of big chubby tires.  While 29+ may be pushing it, for your intended 
> purpose you have tons of good choices.  
>
> My personal bias is to Schwalbe because I hate flats.  I've been pleased 
> with the 40 mm Marathon Supremes on my 58 cm Atlantis, having used them for 
> many years.  When I was doing more touring (5-6k miles per year) I would 
> only get a flat or 2 per year.  Rear tires lasted a year & fronts a bit 
> longer.  I'm doing about 3,000 miles year now so rarely deal with a flat.  
> I also don't insist on getting the last mile out of a tire.  
>
> I've also tried the Marathon Mondials.  They give better traction off 
> pavement, at a penalty in ride & weight.  
>
> Others have used a wide variety of tires for similar uses so you'll no 
> doubt get plenty of responses with personal use information.  Compass, 
> Soma, et al have all been used with good result.  The trade-off, as always, 
> is puncture resistance and ride vs life span and flat resistance.  You may 
> end up with your own tire inventory.  It's a harmless indulgence.  Enjoy.
>
> dougP
>
> On Sunday, May 21, 2017 at 7:31:38 PM UTC-7, Birdman wrote:
>>
>> Hi all, 
>>
>> I am beyond thrilled to say that I just put a deposit down on a 64 
>> Atlantis with a double tt! Now I get to enjoy many months of anticipation 
>> while fantasizing about bike builds... 
>>
>> Speaking of which, I always rode 32mm pasellas on my Quickbeam as well as 
>> on my current touring bike, because of its relatively narrow crown and 
>> chain stays. The option of running larger tires on the Atlantis is part of 
>> its appeal for me, but I don't really know where to begin. 
>>
>> Any tire size/brand recommendations for commuting and touring with some 
>> gravel and dirt roads? I know it all comes down to compromises and personal 
>> preferences, but where should I start? 
>>
>> Thanks. I haven't posted here in many years. It's great to be coming back 
>> to the RBW Owners Bunch. 
>>
>> Isaac
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Where's Brian?

[John Bokman]

He helped me buy my Sam frame recently. Super nice, easy to work with, 
insightful, and very helpful. He was great at follow up questions after 
purchase, too. I tried emailing him about a month ago and he didn't return 
my message, which was not like him. the next time I tried his email was not 
operational. Apparently he was not getting the message because he was gone. 
Sorry to see him go. 

On Thursday, June 1, 2017 at 8:18:43 PM UTC-7, Ian Strader wrote:
>
> He definitely had the most lust worthy staff builds, imo. His AHH is a 
> work of art
>
> On Thursday, June 1, 2017 at 9:28:04 AM UTC-7, dstein wrote:
>>
>> Weird, I just talked to him like a month or two ago when visiting and 
>> sometimes run into him riding around town in Oakland. He helped me with a 
>> few builds and was always super helpful. He must be gone since he's no 
>> longer on the site, though usually I feel like they announce people coming 
>> and going on the blug. I would assume they want to fill the mechanic 
>> position since they're probably just down to Mark now.
>>
>> On Tuesday, May 30, 2017 at 6:45:49 AM UTC-7, RichS wrote:
>>>
>>> Yesterday I noticed Rivendell's Brian was no longer on the contact list 
>>> nor was he included on the staff bikes page. Any clues as to why? Brian was 
>>> always helpful and responsive to my questions. I'll miss him.
>>>
>>> Thanks very much,
>>> Richard
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Fenders - worth the safety risks? Rethinking my fender use.

[John Bokman]

I second Michael's wish for further information.

I use Barlows, and although I've got plenty of clearance with my Berthoud 
fenders, I have often thought I'll try the Bon Jons when I eventually wear 
the tread down. I like the ride with the Barlows, but I also liked the ride 
with Jack Brown Greens, because it was a bit quicker to turn. Since I 
mostly ride on road, I don't really need the 38mm width. So maybe the Bon 
Jons would be the Goldilocks tire for me. Yet, I worry that the tire, being 
"tubeless compatible" might be difficult to seat on my Velocity Synergy 
rims?



On Monday, May 29, 2017 at 7:06:03 AM UTC-7, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>
> More gears, less tire. Interesting choice.  I look forward to a post from 
> you on how the tires compare and how the 10 spd friction works out.  Do 
> include more specifics about the drive chain and start a new thread.
>
> Michael
>
> On Sunday, May 28, 2017 at 12:50:12 PM UTC-4, Brian Campbell wrote:
>>
>>
>> I did a refresh on my AHH which now sports 10 spd friction and sized down 
>> from 38mm EL Barlow Pass to 35mm EL Bon Jon Pass tires.
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: regarding orange bikes

[John Bokman]

Loved the old Rambouillet orange and the first generation Sam orange, but 
have not yet warmed to the new Sam orange, which looks more like a dull 
pumpkin orange to me. I'd not get tired of a really nice orange. Nor would 
I get tired of a really nice racing green, like some of the Riv customs 
I've seen. I think the blue hues would die for me first.

On Thursday, May 4, 2017 at 8:29:44 PM UTC-7, Nick Payne wrote:
>
> Tout passe, tout casse, tout lasse. But in spite of that French saying, 
> I've had an orange Riv custom for the past 16 years or so and the colour 
> hasn't yet palled:
>
> 
>
>

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[RBW] Re: PSA: 55cm Rivendell All-Rounder - $1200

[John Bokman]

Wow, that's a stunning ride Dave!

On Saturday, September 16, 2017 at 12:19:00 PM UTC-7, Dave Johnston wrote:
>
>
> 
> Here is a picture of my 56cm Atlantis and I agree the AR looks a bit 
> bigger. Maybe 55.5 CtC?
>
>
> On Friday, September 15, 2017 at 6:56:51 PM UTC-4, Matt Beecher wrote:
>>
>> I have no part in this sale, but there is a Rivendell All-Rounder for 
>> sale near Chicago.  If it was a 58-60cm frame, I'd buy it in a heartbeat, 
>> but 55 is way too small for me.   
>>
>>
>> https://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/bik/d/rivendell-all-rounder-bicycle/6303452057.html
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Matt
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] WTB: Old School Grundens Poncho size L

[john Bokman]

Patrick, thanks for the advice. i thought of using pennies sewn into the fabric 
bottom. Maybe my wife will try this (she’s the seamstress, not me; I can only 
use a speedy stitcher sewing awl to ugly effect). Good to hear about your rain. 
Here in Portland, we are getting rain today for the first time in months, and 
it must be doing wonders for the terrible fires in the area. Just yesterday, so 
smokey one didn’t want to venture out doors. Today, blessed rainfall. So Hurrah 
here, too.
> On Sep 17, 2017, at 4:20 PM, Patrick Moore <bertin...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> FWIW: John, I tried heavy ponchos, including Carradice's canvas Ducksback and 
> the heavy nylon yellow one; at least here in ABQ, NM, where most of our rain 
> comes in the summer time, I found them too hot. So I substituted the 
> lightweight and cheap Campmore bicycle poncho (no longer sold, I understand) 
> and attached 2 stacks of washers to the rear bottom. Even in high winds, this 
> keeps the skirts in place.
> 
> Our monsoon is still monsooning! Hurrah! It seems to have shifted over the 
> last 25 years from a late June through August period to a late July through 
> September period; we've been getting short but heavy downpours during the 
> last few days. We may make the 9" citywide average this year!)
> 
> On Sun, Sep 17, 2017 at 4:50 PM, John Bokman <jpbco...@gmail.com 
> <mailto:jpbco...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> Hi All. My wife uses the New School Grundens for her commute; I'm trying to 
> find her an Old School cape. Reason being, she had an Old School, loved it, 
> and it was stolen when her bike was stolen (It was left in the carradice 
> saddlebag). I got her a New School as a replacement, but it's a new design, 
> and not as heavy as the Old School, and therefore, inferior. It rides up in 
> the wind, and she finds it more cumbersome. It's been said before, but 
> Ponchos need to be HEAVY to work well. I'd get her a Carradice waxed cotton 
> poncho, but I want her to be visible, and it certainly is not, especially in 
> Portland, Oregon. So if anyone bought an Old School Poncho they don't use and 
> want to part with, let me know, please. 
> 
> J.
> 
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> 
> 
> -- 
> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
> Other professional writing services.
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> 
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[RBW] WTB: Old School Grundens Poncho size L

[John Bokman]

Hi All. My wife uses the New School Grundens for her commute; I'm trying to 
find her an Old School cape. Reason being, she had an Old School, loved it, 
and it was stolen when her bike was stolen (It was left in the carradice 
saddlebag). I got her a New School as a replacement, but it's a new design, 
and not as heavy as the Old School, and therefore, inferior. It rides up in 
the wind, and she finds it more cumbersome. It's been said before, but 
Ponchos need to be HEAVY to work well. I'd get her a Carradice waxed cotton 
poncho, but I want her to be visible, and it certainly is not, especially 
in Portland, Oregon. So if anyone bought an Old School Poncho they don't 
use and want to part with, let me know, please. 

J.

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[RBW] Re: 59cm MIT Atlantis build and (short) ride report

[John Bokman]

Hot! Love the drops!
Will be very interested in hearing about ride quality, comparrisons vs. 
shorter wheelbase bike.I'd also be on a 59. Love my Sam, but I've always 
lusted after an Atlantis, and this one, with dropsoh my.

On Thursday, June 21, 2018 at 1:35:23 PM UTC-7, ctifusion wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> Just finished my Atlantis build and I couldn't be happier. I've been 
> coveting (and riding) Bridgestones and Rivendells since the 90s and, though 
> I had a Quickbeam and still have vintage B-stones and a bunch of vintage 
> bikes, my last major/modern build was based around a 60cm LHT with 26-inch 
> wheels and Compass RTP tires. Just couldn't justify/afford a Rivendell 
> build five years ago. And that's ok, the LHT has served me well and will 
> continue to be my rough weather/winter bike. But I've been wanting a new, 
> geared Rivendell for a long time.
>
> The sizing on the Sams was just off enough for me (I'm right between the 
> 58 and 62) to pass on it the couple times I got serious and I never took a 
> serious look at the Appaloosa. I have a collection of vintage 80s mountain 
> bikes that are just too close to justify getting a Clem. So when I saw the 
> new Atlantis I was hooked. I have always loved the color and I've been 
> dying to try the modern long wheelbase Rivs. 
>
> I've built a lot of bikes with different versions of the classic riv build 
> so I was looking to do something different and (in my mind) modern. I 
> decided on a 1x11 (ended up with a 1x10), fat tires, and the super wide 
> Crust bars (swapped from my LHT which will go back to an upright bar). I 
> was worried about having to use a couple black parts to make the 1x10 set 
> up work but I think it looks pretty cool. I can do a full parts list if 
> anyone is interested.
>
> I will still use my LHT for the majority of my committing and winter/rain 
> riding. The Atlantis will be used for longer rides and hopefully adding 
> some more serious mileage to my routine. I've seen my pleasure riding 
> diminish recently, so it's time for a new bike and some new roads.
>
> I finished it last night and was able to get a few miles on it before dark 
> (and of course it's been raining all day today!). I immediately found it a 
> really engaging ride, especially compared to the LHT which is stable but a 
> bit "dead." I'm a big guy and the combination of the stout frame, long 
> wheelbase, and fat Compass 55cm tires makes for a stable and lively ride. I 
> LOVE the extended read end, especially when cornering and accelerating from 
> a seated position. I'll post a more detailed ride update with the rain 
> clears.
>
> I should note that it took 2 chains because of the wheelbase, other than 
> that everything went smoothly on the build.
>
> Best,
> Brynnar
> Indy
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Reader index?

[John Bokman]

i'm looking to find Grant's thoughts on front loading the bike, 
specifically his thoughts on carrying the weight on a rack top, or higher 
than traditional low riders. I know he's written about this, but now going 
through my readers, I can't find where. Anyone have a clue?

On Saturday, December 23, 2017 at 11:57:15 AM UTC-8, George Schick wrote:
>
> This post prompted me to look through my file of RR's to see how many I'm 
> missing.  Turns out that when I first subscribed they sent me the next 
> issue in publication, #10, along with #'s 3 and 4, which they must've had 
> extras of laying around.  So, I'm missing 1&2 and 5-9.  Looking through 
> this index I notice that there were a lot of good articles in some of those 
> early readers, especially in the 5-9 issues that I'm missing.  Some of 
> those articles used to be posted separately on the Riv website, but I 
> cannot find them there any longer for some reason (e.g., "Raise Dat Stem" 
> (which would have been helpful during a recent thread about drop bars vs. 
> upright), "The Myth of KOPS" (a topic that also pops up now and then), and 
> several articles by well known experts in bicycle construction and riding. 
>  Too bad.
>
> On Saturday, December 23, 2017 at 10:34:11 AM UTC-6, jbu...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>>
>> happy holidaze, Gang, 
>>
>> Am I crazy to recall that there was an index sheet / master table of 
>> contents for the Rivendell Reader at some point? Anyone have a copy 
>> available? 
>>
>> I need to find my USB cork!!! 
>>
>> Hoping all your saddle sacks are hung by the chimney with care 
>> =- Joe Bunik 
>> Walnut Creek, CA 
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Good New/Bad News on my repaired Atlantis

[john Bokman]

John, I’ll be most interested in hearing how the Paul Touring Cantis work for 
you. I myself have thought of getting the Paul Neo Retros, Touring, or Linear 
Pull Motolites in the past. I would definitely consider them on a new build. 
Please post your observations when you set them.
> On Jan 8, 2018, at 4:48 PM, John G. <jpgu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Jock: good info! Thanks for sharing! This needs to enter Official Atlantis 
> Lore.
> 
> John: I've put two separate brake pads on my CX-70s, the stock ones and 
> Kool-Stops. Both squealed a ton. I even had them adjusted at a shop once or 
> twice, and that never seemed to work. I've had a decent number of cantis over 
> the years: Dia-Comp 960s, cheapy Tektros, IRD Cafams. The CX-70s are far and 
> away the squealiest I've ever owned. Plus, as Patrick sagely states, you need 
> at the very least 6 hands to adjust them. Double plus, I have to deflate my 
> Compass 44mms every time I take the wheel off. Now, I must also admit that I 
> could probably win a Nationwide competition on Worst Canti Adjuster.
> 
> I may see if I can use them to convert my Voyageur to 700c from 27 inches, 
> but if that doesn't work, I'll send them off to anyone who wants 'em for say 
> 25 bucks.
> 
> 
> 
> On Monday, January 8, 2018 at 7:32:13 PM UTC-5, John Bokman wrote:
> John  I'm curious about your squealing CX-70 brakes. I use them on my Sam and 
> have found them to be quiet, and the best functioning cantilevers I've ever 
> used. Could it be your brake pads, or toe in perhaps? Having said this, I use 
> Paul center pulls on another bike, and they are also fantastic. 
> 
> 
> 
> On Saturday, January 6, 2018 at 3:56:15 PM UTC-8, John G. wrote:-
> Thanks, all! Mark, I’ll be using your short term solution while the Waterford 
> touch-up is en route. 
> 
> It’s such a relief to have the Atlantis back. Some time apart just reinforced 
> how much I love that bike, squealing lousy cx-70 cantis and all.
> 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Cumil the Peeper sold me a Canti-Sam frameset

[john Bokman]

Ah, then in that case, glad I waited for the 58!
Rides like a dream. Rolling gleefully.
> On Jan 10, 2018, at 8:20 AM, Dave Small <smallvintagevend...@mac.com> wrote:
> 
> My story is the same:  60cm (which I bought) is a bit too big, the 56cm 
> (which I test rode and didn't buy) was a bit too small, and the later 58cm 
> version is just right.  I don't think the current 58cm equals the first-run 
> 56cm, either from my experience with them or the PBH recommendations--it's in 
> between.  
> 
> On Tuesday, January 9, 2018 at 9:58:09 PM UTC-5, John Bokman wrote:
> Rod, I got the first run (2009) Sam in 60cm. I wish I had gotten a 56 in 
> retrospect. Finally I got a 58 (new run) and it’s perfect. I think it equates 
> to the first run 56cm.
> 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Cumil the Peeper sold me a Canti-Sam frameset

[john Bokman]

Rod, I got the first run (2009) Sam in 60cm. I wish I had gotten a 56 in 
retrospect. Finally I got a 58 (new run) and it’s perfect. I think it equates 
to the first run 56cm.
> Bob,
> 
> Score! Many thanks!
> 
> rod
> 
> On Tuesday, January 9, 2018 at 6:27:20 PM UTC-5, Bob Lovejoy wrote:
> Rod,
> 
> I am assuming this one is valid: 
>  
> https://www.rivbike.com/pages/geometry 
> 
> 
> I think the one you were seeing is for the earlier (earliest?) versions.
> 
> Bob
> 
> 
> On Tuesday, January 9, 2018 at 5:18:34 PM UTC-6, Rod Holland wrote:
> The only Sam Hillborne geometry chart I could find 
> 
>  didn't include a row for 58cm; I assume that they weren't made in that 
> production run. An updated geometry chart would be handy. In the meantime, I 
> assume it's reasonable to assume that the rear spacing is still 135mm, and 
> the TT will likely measure somewhere around 60cm. Other build-related 
> questions may suggest themselves shortly. Interpolating between 56cm and 60cm 
> geometry data to estimate 58cm geometry seems like a safe bet...
> 
> rod
> 
> 
> 
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[RBW] Re: Cumil the Peeper sold me a Canti-Sam frameset

[John Bokman]

Rod, good for you. I have two bikes, a 61cm  OAC Rambler, and a 58cm Sam. 
Both fantastic bikes; they always bring glee. Build them soon as you can!

On Monday, January 8, 2018 at 1:02:42 PM UTC-8, Rod Holland wrote:
>
> Last night I read Grant's Blahg, and these words clicked for me: "Don't 
> buy what you don't need, but also don't wait too long if it's in your 
> cards, anyway." So I ordered a 58cm Canti-Sam frameset, which joins a 59cm 
> Ocean Air Rambler F/F/HS+brakes and an old Nobilette go-fast frame and fork 
> in the winter-build queue. I guess that puts me at n+3, and I'm not sure 
> which build will come first, now, but it did seem like the time to buy a 
> Rivendell, from Rivendell.
>
> rod
>

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[RBW] Re: Good New/Bad News on my repaired Atlantis

[John Bokman]

John  I'm curious about your squealing CX-70 brakes. I use them on my Sam 
and have found them to be quiet, and the best functioning cantilevers I've 
ever used. Could it be your brake pads, or toe in perhaps? Having said 
this, I use Paul center pulls on another bike, and they are also fantastic. 



On Saturday, January 6, 2018 at 3:56:15 PM UTC-8, John G. wrote:-
>
> Thanks, all! Mark, I’ll be using your short term solution while the 
> Waterford touch-up is en route. 
>
> It’s such a relief to have the Atlantis back. Some time apart just 
> reinforced how much I love that bike, squealing lousy cx-70 cantis and all.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Cumil the Peeper sold me a Canti-Sam frameset

[john Bokman]

In my case, i was “in between” sizes in 2009. My choices were 56cm and 60cm for 
my 89cm pbh. I chose the 60cm based on the employee’s suggestion. I was on the 
small end of the 60cm range. That is to say, my 89cm pub was among the shortest 
that would fit the 60cm frame. But I’d always read Grant saying: “Go bigger, 
bigger is better.” So between the Riv employee and Grant in my ears, that’s 
what I did. But I did not really understand the Riv “expanded frame” idea. What 
it meant for me was that the effective top tube was too long (61cm) even with a 
short, 7cm stem. (My legs are long and my torso is on the short side.) Yes, I 
rode the bike, and rode it successfully, for 7 years. But it was never the bike 
I wanted it to be.
So I took off the parts, and got a 58cm frame.

I think i would have loved the 56cm frame. I’m glad they now offer the new 58. 
I’m smack in the middle of the 58cm range, considering pbh, and I find it 
perfect. 

Concerning changes with the frameset: the 2009 bike, at 60cm, felt lighter to 
the hand (picking it up off the ground) than my 2017 58cm frame. Both my 
mechanic and I noticed the difference. Brian told me he thought they had 
“beefed up” the seat tube a bit. Regardless of weight,, once I’m riding, it’s 
just fantastic. I would never accuse Sam of being especially quick or nimble, 
but it’s just such a smooth, solid, confidence-inspiring ride that it always 
brings me joy. 
> On Jan 9, 2018, at 7:51 PM, Christopher Murray  
> wrote
> 
> It does seem the Sam has changed more than other bikes. When the Sam was 
> conceived the idea was having few sizes that would fit more people. This was 
> new in the Rivendell line up. It seems like most of what has changed is top 
> tube and seat tube lengths. I’d guess this is just an evolution of the 
> expanded geometry idea— finding the best sizes and the corresponding top tube 
> lengths. I think the history of the Sam and its changes would make a great 
> Reader article. 
> 
> Reading everything that has been written about the Sam over the years I get 
> the sense that it has been a smashing success. It has grown to be Riv’s go to 
> bike. Grant’s most recent post says “always the bike we rule out before going 
> on to something else.”
> 
> An awesome bike. Congrats to the lucky recent purchasers. I’m jealous. 
> 
> Cheers!
> Chris
> 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Cumil the Peeper sold me a Canti-Sam frameset

[john Bokman]

I trust in Grant, but my favorite Rivendell bikes, at least on paper, are the 
most svelte. I hope the Sam doesn’t get too beefed out. (Rather, I hope if he 
designs a beefed-out Sam, it’s a 26” wheeled Sam! I’d be all over that one.)
> On Jan 12, 2018, at 5:14 PM, Adam Kilgas  wrote:
> 
> On Friday, January 12, 2018 at 12:54:16 PM UTC-5, Surlyprof wrote:
>> 
>> PS: I was surprised at a recent blug or blahg post that said they beefed up 
>> Sam’s fork.  That was where I noticed a big difference.
> 
> 
> I was surprised to read that as well; kinda curious how Sam's fork now 
> compares to most Taiwan-made forks...is it still lighter..?  Or was it ever?
> 
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[RBW] Re: Informal poll: Sam Hillborne sizing, 6' tall about an 85PBH?

[John Bokman]

I would go smaller if running drops. I was in between sizes in 2009, got 
the larger frame (60cm) and wished I'd gotten the smaller (56) because the 
top tube was so long. Even with a short 7 cm stem, it was too long for me, 
although standover was adequate. 7 years later, I got a smaller Sam (58cm) 
and it's perfect. Mind you, this is for a rider who rides with drop bars 
below saddle level. i still prefer the short stem. My legs are long 
relative to my torso.

On Saturday, February 17, 2018 at 7:36:11 PM UTC-8, Scott McLain wrote:
>
> I similar measurements to you 5-11, 87cm inseam.  I ride a size 58 LHT and 
> a size 59 Riv AHH.  I would go with the smaller sam if I intended to run 
> drop bars.  It’s reach is very similar to the 58 LHT and 59 AHH. 
>
> If you are going upright bars, you can go either way.  A bosco bar will 
> eat up lots of top tube.  There was a great pic on this list of a 60 chev 
> with a slammed boscomoose! Not sure I would do that with a Sam but just 
> sayin you could. 
>
> I would trust the Riv guys if I was buying new. 
>
> What color, now that is a really hard question! 
>
> Good Luck! 
>
> Scott 
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Riding within me means ... more fixed gear contemplations

[John Bokman]

Glad you found some knicks.
I was aiming to order some, but was concerned they might be too busy, what 
with the internal drawcord, cargo pockets I won't use and such. Do you find 
them easy enough to get on with now that you've had some time to access? 
And, do they stay put and not shift around too much?
I've got Compass knicks and they're good, but I don't care for the zippered 
pockets (openings are too small and I don't have large hands). I was hoping 
to get some heavier weight knicks, and have been on the lookout, so thought 
I'd ask.

On Monday, February 19, 2018 at 10:02:43 AM UTC-8, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> Ride sounds great, Patrick! Holler when ready. 
>
> The Reign knickers did surprisingly well in the 14˚F in frozen, windy fog 
> to 35˚ and sunny in Woodland Park, back down through snow, fog, and wind in 
> the 20’s grocery run this morning. No additional under-layer save for the 
> added possum wool sock for me front bits (AKA a three sock ride).   
> https://thegrid.ai/withabandon/as-seen-on-todays-grocery-run 
>
> With abandon, 
> Patrick

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Re: [RBW] Riding within me means ... more fixed gear contemplations

[john Bokman]

Other than the small, zippered (not necessary and annoying) pockets, I’m happy 
enough with the Compass. True enough I don’t need both a snap at the waist and 
a buckle, but neither really bothers me. But the fabric is great, really light, 
with some stretch, quick drying, and the cut is generous for me (I’m thin). I 
don’t use the  shock cord at the leg opening, but it’s there, and unobtrusive, 
if one wants to cinch the fabric at the shin. All in all, good knicks. They’re 
pricey, and may not last too long (i’ve worn them for a year now),  but I’d 
have to say the function is good. I think you may well be a fan. One thing I 
wish manufacturers would eliminate in pants/knicks/shorts, is rear pockets. 
Compass has done so, BTW. Rear pockets are unnecessary, and create seams to sit 
on and chafe. No need for rear pockets in cycling bottoms! Aren’t the thigh 
pockets and cargo pockets enough?
> On Feb 20, 2018, at 6:05 PM, Deacon Patrick  wrote:
> 
> John, the drawstring can be ignored or cut off, but it is sewn into the back, 
> so it can’t be removed. I wear a 1.25” belt with them that holds my knife in 
> the small of my back, so they stay put just fine. Grin. I had doubts about 
> the cargo pockets as well. They are a bit annoying if my hand brushes pas


> t them, but they hold my Swiss Army Classic wee knife and rosary ring 
> perfectly in a subpocket. Untill I get the Compass, I can’t compare the 
> weight of them, but the Reign knickers are not heavy by any means, but they 
> do block wind well.
> 
> Hmmm. My hands are bigger, so I’ll see how I get along with that in the 
> Compass.
> 
> With abandon,
> Patrick
> 
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[RBW] Re: Real ride comparison: Joe Appaloosa vs Sam Hillborne vs Roadini?

[John Bokman]

I expect you'll love the Sam. I had a Sam (2009) that was, what I 
considered, too large for me (a 60cm frame). Even though I was just long of 
leg enough for the 60cm frame, with my 89 PBH, I felt too stretched out on 
the long top tube. I could have chosen the (then) 56cm frame. Wish I had 
done that. In retrospect, it would have been perfect. After 7 years on the 
bike, I took off the parts and got a (new school) 58cm Sam. I absolutely 
love it, and it's the ride I always wanted from the original but never got. 
I'm right in the middle of the size range. It's one of the best fitting 
bikes I've ever ridden. I load Sam to the hilt, and it's great for that. I 
ride it unladen, and it's great for that, too. It's always carrying racks, 
front and rear (Tubus Logo Evo and Tara, respectively, and a Nitto mini 
front, always with a Ocean Air Docena front bag). It's a splendid ride. 
Once you get a Riv that really, truly fits, it's bliss.

On Thursday, December 28, 2017 at 10:09:10 AM UTC-8, Bob Lovejoy wrote:
>
> Well, decision made here - a 58cm black/cream Sam frame is somewhere, most 
> likely bobbing on the ocean, making its way to me.  The decision really 
> hinged, not only on the good advice and info from people, but really on the 
> question of sizing.  If my ~89cm PBH fit squarely in the middle of the 
> recommended sizes/PBH's for the Roadini I might have gone that way.  That 
> said, and it's been said before, a bike that fits well is a wonderful 
> thing, the most important thing, and I have complete confidence the 58cm 
> Sam will fit me perfectly, both in size and for the riding I do.  I also 
> have a few more parts laying around for the Sam build versus the Roadini.
>
> The only problem is I somewhat justified the new frame by thinking I had 
> the discipline to part out my Cheviot, using the wheels and such for the 
> Sam, and, somewhat predictably, I don't think I can do it!  The Cheviot is 
> just too nice, too special...  So the future-Sam will attract its parts 
> from a different bike, from the stash, from wherever needed or what appears.
>
> Anyway, I agree with almost all of the statements and observations stated! 
>  I do think the Roadini is a cool frame and could be built as almost 
> anything.  But, at least around here, using the gravel roads when exploring 
> is almost a given.  The good (paved) bike roads are many times best tied 
> together with the gravel farm roads so there was that.  And I never could 
> get completely confident with the Roadini sizing for me - and I admit I 
> could very well be wrong on that.  Still, in my particular situation, the 
> Sam won out and I am excited!  
>
> Best to all and here's to great rides and adventures in the new year,
>
> Bob Lovejoy
> Galesburg, IL
>
>
> On Thursday, December 28, 2017 at 9:59:22 AM UTC-6, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>> Don’t get me wrong. I agree that a Roadini with 28mm tires, fenders, 
>> dynamo lighting, front low rider panniers and a not-huge saddlebag could 
>> make an awesome stealth S24O or weekend sport touring rig. I have no doubt 
>> I could pull that off. 
>>
>> The OP is in Galesburg. The bike I used to have stashed in a Galesburg 
>> garage was a 1992 RB-1. That was a stripped down racing bike and it was 
>> just dandy. It’s a nice 70-mike out and back to Oquawka, where you can dip 
>> your front wheel in the Mississippi River.  A stripped down race bike is 
>> all you ‘need’ for that. If I wanted to get onto the gravel farm-roads, I’d 
>> want a little more floatation, I think. 
>>
>> It depends on what the OP wants.  Both the Sam and the Roadini are 
>> terrific. It’s easy to underestimate the touring capabilities of a Roadini 
>> and it’s easy to underestimate the pure road bike capability of a Sam. 
>>
>> Bill Lindsay 
>> El Cerrito Ca 
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Please tell me about your experience with caliper braked Hillbornes.

[John Bokman]

I had the stock Tektros on my Sam. Found them lacking. I'd been using 
Cantis for years,and this was my first forray into sidepulls in years. I 
think the long arms resulted in too much flex. They were easy to adjust, 
however. Easily the easiest brakes I've used to set up and maintain. But in 
wet Oregon, not so great for me.
I use Paul Racer on a different bike, and they are heads and shoulders 
better for stopping. I don't care for their looks, but they work great. 
Worth the money to me.

On Tuesday, July 31, 2018 at 2:36:35 PM UTC-7, Brett Callahan wrote:
>
> Friends, 
>
> I'm considering the purchase of a lightly used Sam Hillborne--the caliper 
> brake version. The only thing giving me pause is that it has been a while 
> since I had anything with caliper brakes. The long reach required would 
> seem to limit my options to the Paul Racer Centerpulls and the 
> Tektro/Silver R559 brakes. Anyone want to share their experiences with 
> these brakes, particularly on the Hillborne? 
>
> If money were no object, would replacing R559s with Pauls be a good idea? 
> (The bike would come with R559s on it, but I am who I am and will look to 
> tinker eventually...)
>
> For background, intended use is as a primarily on road bike with a small 
> front rack, 38mm tires, and fenders. I'm six foot two, and weigh 235-245. I 
> live in Portland, so the bike will be ridden in the rain. 
>
> Thanks!
>
> Brett
>

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[RBW] Re: Grant is asking us to not run baskets on Nitto Racks

[John Bokman]

I have been really enjoying the convenience of loading my front rack (Nitto 
32-f) with a grocery bag full of goods in my Ocean Air Docena (Swift) bag 
for years.  In fact, yesterday, i loaded way more than I should have - at 
22 pounds of goods (I weighed it when I got home cause I was curious). I 
was nervous about the load, even though it rode remarkably well - until I 
was at a stop and had massive wheel flop.  Still, prudence tells me, as 
much as a big load in the front bag is convenient, it's not safer than two  
panniers on my low-riders (Tubus Tara) on my Sam. I think, all equal, for 
load stability and safety, if you're  gonna cary big loads, keep them low 
and off the front wheel - no matter what front rack you have (excepting a 
Surly Nice Rack or Nitto Big Front Rack, of course, which are both 
monsters).

On Wednesday, August 15, 2018 at 9:23:46 PM UTC-7, Lum Gim Fong wrote:
>
> My limit on my VO Rando rack is filling up my GBerthoud GB25 bag. I don’t 
> add more than thst as I was told that the VO rando is ok up to maybe 15lbs 
> iirc. BTW Those Bertie bags are heavy even empty. 
> My GB 25 is with Nitto for Pearl stems decaleur bar attachment on bag, no 
> stiffner- 604g Hea-vy!!!

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Re: [RBW] Hilltrek Ventile Cotton Analogy Sale

[john Bokman]

Andy, I didn’t realize the Braemar had pit zips? I don’t see this detail on 
their specifications page. Pit zips would certainly help in airflow no matter 
what the fabric.

You have the DV or the Hybrid?

> On Aug 30, 2018, at 10:02 AM, ascpgh  wrote:
> 
> I didn't option my Braemar with side zips, I get how they could be helpful 
> when getting out of the smock/anorak. Available on the customization options 
> for 50 BSP. As airflow is concerned, with my neck zip down and the pit zips 
> opened up, ventilation is not an issue. Certainly not for the complication 
> and $65 of the option. I vote with entropy; avoid unnecessary complexities to 
> assure prolonged baseline function.
> 
> I am very pleased with my garment and simply ecstatic to have found something 
> that is not synthetic, crunchy, stiff, and noisy. My experiences with 
> technical shells has been highlighted by inferior water repelling 
> performance, poor vapor ventilation, and lack of sustained function or 
> durability under regular use. I think my 2-3 year cycle of disappointment 
> with shell jackets is over now.
> 
> I picked red as Patrick did for the visibility practicality. I have both a 
> reflective mesh Nathan safety vest and reflective Tuvizo belt/shoulder strap 
> rig to wear on top if my visibility concerns are greater than that. 
> 
> Andy Cheatham
> Pittsburgh
> 
> 
> 
> On Thursday, August 30, 2018 at 8:57:06 AM UTC-4, John Bokman wrote:
> Thanks Patrick and Andy for your assistance. Very interesting about the 
> coloration of cottons. I had no idea.
> 
> I’m not one who would wear “neon” green or yellow, but I’m partial to a 
> “warm” color like orange or red to be seen on the road.
> 
> Guys: Do you have size zips for your smock? I would suspect they’d not only 
> help with removal but with allowing more airflow?
> 
> I assume with the weight of the smock being over 2#, I would only need a thin 
> layer underneath and I’d be plenty warm. Most of my rain season (8 months a 
> year)  riding is done at (wet) temperatures between 35-60 degrees. 
> 
> Any additional comments on your products and use are welcome as I try to make 
> choices. I’m sick and tired of burning through plastics, no matter how 
> “advanced” or “improved”.
>> On Aug 30, 2018, at 4:46 AM, ascpgh gmail.com 
>> <http://gmail.com/>> wrote:
>> 
>> John, that's the item I have now, their Braemar smock, in red. 
>> 
>> Fluorescent colors in fabrics are a bit more susceptible to UV degradation 
>> of the pigments that produce the fluorescent color effect. The base fabric 
>> dictates the  necessity of chemical characteristics of a coloring dye, 
>> cotton is one of the hardest to accommodate. If interested: 
>> https://www.aatcc.org/media/Read/Newsletter/archive/2013/01A/The_Perils_and_Pitfalls_of_Dyeing_Neon_Colors.PDF
>>  
>> <https://www.aatcc.org/media/Read/Newsletter/archive/2013/01A/The_Perils_and_Pitfalls_of_Dyeing_Neon_Colors.PDF>
>> 
>> Back in my late '80s outdoor retail days, when fluorescent ("neon") colors 
>> ruled ski gear, we had a one day in the window policy for displays. They 
>> were rotated to even the exposure and the merchandisers had worksheets that 
>> were kept by the displays near the UV blocking windows because we observed 
>> fade from brief display in direct sunlight despite the glass choice, even 
>> non-fluorescent colors. 
>> 
>> In that same era Grant wrote in the 1991 Bridgestone catalog about color: 
>> https://www.sheldonbrown.com/bridgestone/1991/pages/bridgestone-1991-17.htm 
>> <https://www.sheldonbrown.com/bridgestone/1991/pages/bridgestone-1991-17.htm>
>> 
>> Andy Cheatham
>> Pittsburgh
>> 
>> On Thursday, August 30, 2018 at 12:19:14 AM UTC-4, John Bokman wrote:
>> Thanks Patrick! 
>> Interestingly, the 2x Ventile is the same weight as Cotton Analogy. I’d 
>> rather buy all cotton “all things equal” unless there is a clear reason to 
>> do otherwise. I like the smock option best, BTW. Less zipper, perhaps 
>> slightly more cumbersome to put on, but the kangaroo pockets are a real 
>> bonus for me. (I’d upset to the side zips, as well.) 
>> > On Aug 29, 2018, at 9:12 PM, 'Deacon Patrick' via RBW Owners Bunch 
>> > > wrote: 
>> > 
>> > John, I’d recommend double ventile or cotton analogy for what you just 
>> > described. Single layer soaks through where horizontal, such as sleeves on 
>> > a bike, or sitting and enjoying a pipe. For blaze orange (or red, which I 
>> > prefer, because it is equally visible, but not flourescent and thus 
>> > bikey/racy and so people seem to be friendlier)

[RBW] Re: Hilltrek Ventile Cotton Analogy Sale

[John Bokman]

Patrick, You've spoken to this before, so excuse my poor memory. I'm having 
difficulty choosing between the 2x ventile and hybrid fabrics. I know in 
practice, where i ride (Western Oregon), my arms will get wet if I'm not in 
a plastic fabric. Im therefore thinking 2x Ventile might be a better choice 
for me than Hybrid. Yes, it's good to have additional protection at 
shoulders, but if the arms are soaked, that's not real pleasant. Problem 
is, in 2x Ventile, there is no "Blaze" orange to be seen. only the colors 
i'd want when trail walking. 
I was one of the early customers of their single ventile gilet, and like it 
very much. Perhaps not "waterproof" but comfortable, good zippers, good 
pockets, and in (at least partial, if not all) blaze orange.



On Wednesday, August 29, 2018 at 9:44:59 AM UTC-7, Mark Schneider wrote:
>
> Patrick,
>
> I bought the Greenspot a few years ago after I read your recommendation. 
> (The analogy being too warm for my climate zone)The dual layer is very warm 
> but the fabric keeps me dry and comfortable as long as it's cool enough 
> out. The fabric breaths much better than GoreTex or the chex aper 
> laminates. I love all the pockets on the Greenspot it great for all cool 
> weather outdoor activity.
> Mark
>
> On Tuesday, August 28, 2018 at 2:56:34 PM UTC-7, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>>
>> Best rain jacket I’ve ever had, going on over five years now. No 
>> affiliation, just a very satisfied customer. 20% off cotton analogy through 
>> August. https://hilltrek.co.uk/shop-by-material/cotton-analogy/
>>
>> With abandon,
>> Patrick
>>
>> www.CredoFamily.org
>> www.MindYourHeadCoop.org
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Hilltrek Ventile Cotton Analogy Sale

[john Bokman]

Thanks Patrick!
Interestingly, the 2x Ventile is the same weight as Cotton Analogy. I’d rather 
buy all cotton “all things equal” unless there is a clear reason to do 
otherwise. I like the smock option best, BTW. Less zipper, perhaps slightly 
more cumbersome to put on, but the kangaroo pockets are a real bonus for me. 
(I’d upset to the side zips, as well.)
> On Aug 29, 2018, at 9:12 PM, 'Deacon Patrick' via RBW Owners Bunch 
>  wrote:
> 
> John, I’d recommend double ventile or cotton analogy for what you just 
> described. Single layer soaks through where horizontal, such as sleeves on a 
> bike, or sitting and enjoying a pipe. For blaze orange (or red, which I 
> prefer, because it is equally visible, but not flourescent and thus 
> bikey/racy and so people seem to be friendlier), I’d email them.
> 
> With abandon,
> Patrick 
> 
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[RBW] Re: What epoch of Rivster are you?

[John Bokman]

Proto-Rivster for sure. 
I was in the IBOB with the paper leaflets. Had a MB-3 (I think it was?) 
from 1986. It was a really cool grey-gren color with some red in there in 
places.
Then I had an MB-2, purple, that i got in 1990, if memory serves. That one 
had a really quick front end that I never quite got used to. But it sure 
was fun for the off-roading I was doing at the time. Sold that in 1994 to 
get the X0-3 (supposedly the last one in Northern California in 55.5cm). 
This was the last year of the Bridgestone X0-3s. I rode that bike all over 
the place, from Off-roading (I put on 26x1.95" tires), to an ocassional 
Off-Road race, to some short tours, to road rides, and commuting. It was my 
only bike, and a great one although always a scooch too small for true road 
riding.  At the time, it was novel to be able to switch from 1.25" slicks 
to fatter knobbies all on the same bike! And using Moustache bars, I could 
get comfortable in several positions to suit my riding terrain. I still 
have that bike, currently being rebuilt for my daughter.

So I knew about Grant from the BOB group (I think I was number 3706, or 
maybe 3607 - I used to have the card, but have since lost it). Therefore, 
When Riv started,I lusted after the All-Rounder. It just seemed the perfect 
bike for me. But it was way out of my budget. Then I lusted after the 
Atlantis. For years and years. But it too was way out of my budget. I 
always lusted after the Road Standards, and the Long Low.

Years and years later, I finally got my Riv: a 2009, first-gen Sam, so 
officially, Im in the 2xTT era, although my 60cm did not have the 2xTT 
(which for me is a good thing, as I'm not smitten with the 2xTT). I rode 
the bike sucessfuly and mostly enjoyably for 7 years, but always felt it 
was too large a frame.I knew the bones were right, but it just didn't fit 
as well as I knew it could. So I sold the frame and got a 58, and swapped 
the parts over, and I'm happy as a clam. The Sam has proven to be my 
All-Rounder. It just is so comfortable, rides so well, does everything I 
ask of it. I could not imagine ever needing "more bike" for the riding I 
do. I could ride heavily loaded for thousands of miles. In fact, I'd vote 
for Sam as being their "touring bike" rather than the "country bike". In my 
estimation, it's plenty stout. I regularly carry heavy loads and it just 
rides like nobody's business...it's just a super fun, do-most workhorse of 
a bike. 

Having said all that...I still lust after the older models. As much as i 
love my Sam, aesthetically I prefer the straight-across top tube.  I'd love 
to find a Ram, or a Road Standard. I no longer need the All-Rounder or 
Atlantis, because I've got my Sam. 

On Friday, September 28, 2018 at 10:13:26 AM UTC-7, Philip Williamson wrote:
>
> Aha! All those Roscos were pretty experimental, and cut across the strata 
> in interesting ways. 
> The *Arcana* or *Enigmatic* Rivs would also include Patrick Moore's 26" 
> wheeled road bikes, the Mystery Bike, and the custom fixed-gear mountain 
> bike that caused such a stir several years ago. 
>
> Philip 
> Santa Rosa, CA 
>
>
> On Thursday, September 27, 2018 at 7:16:20 PM UTC-7, dstein wrote:
>>
>> Can we throw an 'Experimental' or 'Avant Garde' Epoch for the odd ball 
>> Rosco's and any other one off frames they've done ;) I love my Rosco Road.
>>
>> I was turned on during the AHH/Sam/Atlantis/Hunq days so that is where my 
>> heart lies, even though I don't have any of those (anymore). So a 2TTer. 
>> But I've always leaned toward the Golden Age and keep my eye out for an 
>> orange Ram (especially after seeing Evan's).
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Hilltrek Ventile Cotton Analogy Sale

[john Bokman]

Thanks Patrick and Andy for your assistance. Very interesting about the 
coloration of cottons. I had no idea.

I’m not one who would wear “neon” green or yellow, but I’m partial to a “warm” 
color like orange or red to be seen on the road.

Guys: Do you have size zips for your smock? I would suspect they’d not only 
help with removal but with allowing more airflow?

I assume with the weight of the smock being over 2#, I would only need a thin 
layer underneath and I’d be plenty warm. Most of my rain season (8 months a 
year)  riding is done at (wet) temperatures between 35-60 degrees. 

Any additional comments on your products and use are welcome as I try to make 
choices. I’m sick and tired of burning through plastics, no matter how 
“advanced” or “improved”.
> On Aug 30, 2018, at 4:46 AM, ascpgh  wrote:
> 
> John, that's the item I have now, their Braemar smock, in red. 
> 
> Fluorescent colors in fabrics are a bit more susceptible to UV degradation of 
> the pigments that produce the fluorescent color effect. The base fabric 
> dictates the  necessity of chemical characteristics of a coloring dye, cotton 
> is one of the hardest to accommodate. If interested: 
> https://www.aatcc.org/media/Read/Newsletter/archive/2013/01A/The_Perils_and_Pitfalls_of_Dyeing_Neon_Colors.PDF
>  
> <https://www.aatcc.org/media/Read/Newsletter/archive/2013/01A/The_Perils_and_Pitfalls_of_Dyeing_Neon_Colors.PDF>
> 
> Back in my late '80s outdoor retail days, when fluorescent ("neon") colors 
> ruled ski gear, we had a one day in the window policy for displays. They were 
> rotated to even the exposure and the merchandisers had worksheets that were 
> kept by the displays near the UV blocking windows because we observed fade 
> from brief display in direct sunlight despite the glass choice, even 
> non-fluorescent colors. 
> 
> In that same era Grant wrote in the 1991 Bridgestone catalog about color: 
> https://www.sheldonbrown.com/bridgestone/1991/pages/bridgestone-1991-17.htm 
> <https://www.sheldonbrown.com/bridgestone/1991/pages/bridgestone-1991-17.htm>
> 
> Andy Cheatham
> Pittsburgh
> 
> On Thursday, August 30, 2018 at 12:19:14 AM UTC-4, John Bokman wrote:
> Thanks Patrick! 
> Interestingly, the 2x Ventile is the same weight as Cotton Analogy. I’d 
> rather buy all cotton “all things equal” unless there is a clear reason to do 
> otherwise. I like the smock option best, BTW. Less zipper, perhaps slightly 
> more cumbersome to put on, but the kangaroo pockets are a real bonus for me. 
> (I’d upset to the side zips, as well.) 
> > On Aug 29, 2018, at 9:12 PM, 'Deacon Patrick' via RBW Owners Bunch 
> > > wrote: 
> > 
> > John, I’d recommend double ventile or cotton analogy for what you just 
> > described. Single layer soaks through where horizontal, such as sleeves on 
> > a bike, or sitting and enjoying a pipe. For blaze orange (or red, which I 
> > prefer, because it is equally visible, but not flourescent and thus 
> > bikey/racy and so people seem to be friendlier), I’d email them. 
> > 
> > With abandon, 
> > Patrick 
> > 
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[RBW] Re: Recomendations For Cycling-Specific Vehicle

[John Bokman]

I've got a Toyota Matrix, and i can fit my 58 cm Hillborne in without 
removing the wheels! The front seat goes flat, as do the rear seats. And 
the nice thing is, the backing of the seats is just hard plastic - nothing 
to snag or get grimy that can't easily be cleaned. It's easy to slide the 
bike on its side in there, rear wheel first.

If I were getting something different I would be sorely tempted by the Ford 
Transit. But how does one keep the bike upright? And can the seats be 
removed, or just made to lie flat? Seems like it might be a tight squeeze 
(height-wise) with a taller frame, but I don't know, never done it. Same 
with the Element: Is it close to the ceiling with the bike upright?


On Wednesday, September 26, 2018 at 10:36:00 AM UTC-7, sameness wrote:
>
> FWIW, we just purchased a new Nissan NV200 compact 
>  
> for the work fleet, and while I haven't tried it yet, my eyeball tells me I 
> could fit three drop-barred bikes in their upright position back there. 
>
> Obviously no long term reports on reliability, but it was only $20K out 
> the door, which is a nice start.
>
> Jeff Hagedorn
> Los Angeles, CA USA
>

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[RBW] Re: FS: Shimano CX-70 brakes, NIB

[John Bokman]

Sold.
Thanks Brian.

On Sunday, January 20, 2019 at 12:46:01 PM UTC-8, Brian Campbell wrote:
>
> PM sent.
>
>
> On Saturday, January 19, 2019 at 6:55:07 PM UTC-5, John Bokman wrote:
>>
>> Bobbers, I've got  front and rear, New-In-Box Shimano CX-70 brakes for 
>> sale. How bout &100, shipped CONUS?
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Hip Pack Recommendations

[John Bokman]

Take a look at Lone Peak. They make the most durable packs I've used. I'm 
still using panniers I purchased in 1992. The zippers are super strong, 
cordura is triple stitched, designs are well thought-out. They are made in 
Washington.

On Saturday, January 19, 2019 at 12:58:40 PM UTC-8, Dave Grossman wrote:
>
> I'm looking at getting a hip pack (aka Fanny Pack).  I've looked at a few 
> from North, Swift, and not much else.  I was wondering if anyone has any 
> recommendations for a reasonably priced durable pack.  I'd be using it for 
> riding but also when I am carrying one of my kids on my body so I can still 
> carry snacks and things for the rest of the crew.  
>

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[RBW] FS: Shimano CX-70 brakes, NIB

[John Bokman]

Bobbers, I've got  front and rear, New-In-Box Shimano CX-70 brakes for 
sale. How bout &100, shipped CONUS?

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Re: [RBW] Re: Things I wish Rivendell still sold..

[John Bokman]

I've also been waiting for a 26" wheeled bike from Riv since the 
all-rounder. Although I'm not a short rider (I'm 6' tall, with 89cm PBH), I 
want to ride a 26" wheeled bike once again. Quick, nimble, fun, and 
versatile tire sizes. I love my Sam, but I'd buy a 26"er in a heartbeat if 
one was offered.

On Tuesday, November 13, 2018 at 8:48:18 AM UTC-8, Steven Sweedler wrote:
>
> I would like to third this idea. I was hoping the upcoming mtb would have 
> a 26” wheel, but am told all too often its a dead end. Steve
>
> On Tue, Nov 13, 2018 at 11:41 AM S. Greco  > wrote:
>
>> +1 for All Rounder
>>
>> I would buy one today if it was available (as a standard non-custom 
>> priced frame)
>>
>> I really wish Riv would really add a 26" XO/All Rounder style ride into 
>> the lineup
>>
>>
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[RBW] Re: Afternoon ride from home into the mountains and back on my Sam

[John Bokman]

I ride a Sammy with 44cm Noodles and love love love it! Been on it - or "in 
it" - since 2009. If I were to change bars - not planning on it - Id go 
with the Albastache. I know the Deacon has enthused about these before, so 
I won't bother, since I haven't used them. I have, however, ridden the old 
Mustache bars for years - on my XO-3 - and really liked them for 
off-roading. Thanks for the ride report! Gorgeous roads you have to ride. 
Love to see those on the reports.

J.



On Thursday, January 10, 2019 at 11:05:17 PM UTC-8, Pancake wrote:
>
>
> Great riding after the rain in the west Napa hills on a used but new-to-me 
> Sam Hillborne I got from Riv a couple weeks ago. Switched on Albatross 
> bars, Compass Snoqualmie tires (great recommendation by a friend), and 
> tuned up. Still messing with the bar setup but it’s getting an alternate 
> dropbar setup next week. 
>
> Thanks for all the great ideas from this forum, this bike is just a blast 
> to ride (and fun to tinker on)! 
>
> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1rIbGHaYWvElfc8a_JSk_sf70Bcanaf0W

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Re: [RBW] Hilltrek Ventile Cotton Analogy Sale

[John Bokman]

Well, I opted for the 2x Ventile Greenspot jacket, even though I was really 
interested in a smock. It won't be here for 6-8 weeks, so won't be able to 
report for a while yet.
I wanted the jacket because it will be primarily used as a 
commuting/general purpose jacket, and a zipper is more convenient for me  
in those situations. If I were buying a specific use garment I'd rather go 
with the smock.

And based on the interesting notes from Andy about color impregnation, I 
opted for dull, drab Olive green, because, for my use, it's more versatile. 
If I want to be seen - I do - I'll employ a vest of some sort over the 
jacket when it's truly dark. 

Thanks to you guys who chimed in with thoughts, impressions, and opinions.

BTW, Dave over at Hilltrek is very helpful, and prompt with his responses 
to my many questions over the internet.

On Friday, August 31, 2018 at 2:05:14 AM UTC-7, ascpgh wrote:
>
> John, you're right and I've lost my mind! Ghosts of previous shells that 
> needed pit zips any more have addled me. Only dropping the front zip has 
> been necessary to get all the venting needed (duh, that was the primary 
> attraction of Ventile to me).
>
> Sorry for the confusion. It clearly has been warm enough that I've been 
> without my Braemar's use for some months. 
>
> Side note: Farmer's Almanac says it's going to be very cold and snowy 
> here. I'll be in it daily for long stretches soon.
>
> Andy Cheatham
> Pittsburgh
>
> On Thursday, August 30, 2018 at 11:21:29 PM UTC-4, John Bokman wrote:
>>
>> Andy, I didn’t realize the Braemar had pit zips? I don’t see this detail 
>> on their specifications page. Pit zips would certainly help in airflow no 
>> matter what the fabric.
>>
>> You have the DV or the Hybrid?
>>
>> On Aug 30, 2018, at 10:02 AM, ascpgh  wrote:
>>
>> I didn't option my Braemar with side zips, I get how they could be 
>> helpful when getting out of the smock/anorak. Available on the 
>> customization options for 50 BSP. As airflow is concerned, with my neck zip 
>> down and the pit zips opened up, ventilation is not an issue. Certainly not 
>> for the complication and $65 of the option. I vote with entropy; avoid 
>> unnecessary complexities to assure prolonged baseline function.
>>
>> I am very pleased with my garment and simply ecstatic to have found 
>> something that is not synthetic, crunchy, stiff, and noisy. My experiences 
>> with technical shells has been highlighted by inferior water repelling 
>> performance, poor vapor ventilation, and lack of sustained function or 
>> durability under regular use. I think my 2-3 year cycle of disappointment 
>> with shell jackets is over now.
>>
>> I picked red as Patrick did for the visibility practicality. I have both 
>> a reflective mesh Nathan safety vest and reflective Tuvizo belt/shoulder 
>> strap rig to wear on top if my visibility concerns are greater than that. 
>>
>> Andy Cheatham
>> Pittsburgh
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, August 30, 2018 at 8:57:06 AM UTC-4, John Bokman wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks Patrick and Andy for your assistance. Very interesting about the 
>>> coloration of cottons. I had no idea.
>>>
>>> I’m not one who would wear “neon” green or yellow, but I’m partial to a 
>>> “warm” color like orange or red to be seen on the road.
>>>
>>> Guys: Do you have size zips for your smock? I would suspect they’d not 
>>> only help with removal but with allowing more airflow?
>>>
>>> I assume with the weight of the smock being over 2#, I would only need a 
>>> thin layer underneath and I’d be plenty warm. Most of my rain season (8 
>>> months a year)  riding is done at (wet) temperatures between 35-60 degrees. 
>>>
>>> Any additional comments on your products and use are welcome as I try to 
>>> make choices. I’m sick and tired of burning through plastics, no matter how 
>>> “advanced” or “improved”.
>>>
>>> On Aug 30, 2018, at 4:46 AM, ascpgh  wrote:
>>>
>>> John, that's the item I have now, their Braemar smock, in red. 
>>>
>>> Fluorescent colors in fabrics are a bit more susceptible to UV 
>>> degradation of the pigments that produce the fluorescent color effect. The 
>>> base fabric dictates the  necessity of chemical characteristics of a 
>>> coloring dye, cotton is one of the hardest to accommodate. If interested: 
>>> https://www.aatcc.org/media/Read/Newsletter/archive/2013/01A/The_Perils_and_Pitfalls_of_Dyeing_Neon_Colors.PDF
>>>
>>> Back in my late '80s outdoor retail days, when fluorescent ("neon") 
>

[RBW] Re: To Helmet or not

[John Bokman]

Mark, for the record, I wear a helmet ever since I was hit by a car (hit 
and run driver). I was not wearing a helmet at the time. The driver ran 
right through a stop sign and directly into my left side in the middle of 
the intersection. I was thrown up onto the hood of the car, and rolled off, 
ending up far from where I was hit. I had no "serious" injuries, luckily 
enough. I was taken to the hospital, where the medics pulled shrapnel from 
my back. I was concussed, had cuts and bruising to the forehead, sustained 
severe contusions, and tweaked my neck. 

However, I think it's inappropriate to suggest that "the standard Rivendell 
line" is no helmet. From what I recall (could be wrong), Grant has instead 
suggested that we riders think about helmets, and if they are appropriate 
for our use, and how effective they are. He has suggested thinking about 
risk compensation, and so on. I don't remember him ever saying: "don't wear 
a helmet", although I imagine he himself most often chooses not to wear 
one. 

Incidentally, the main reason I wear a helmet is for a good place to mount 
my "take a look" mirror. After being hit, I wanted to see everything behind 
me (although I was hit from the side in this case) as well as in front of 
me. As a safety device, I value my mirror at least as much as my helmet. It 
took quite a while to get used to riding with a mirror, but now that I am 
accustomed to it I find it invaluable. I highly recommend its use for 
commuters.


On Friday, March 29, 2019 at 7:37:00 PM UTC-7, Mark Schneider wrote:
>
> Good evening,
>
> A recent experience has made me curious on everyones opinion of wearing 
> helmets. To some, it seems against the standard Rivendell ethos to wear a 
> helmet. In this case as in others (clipless pedals)I stray from the 
> standard Rivendell line. I believe in them, I won't get on my bike without 
> one for any meaningful ride. Last night, I had an experience that made me 
> damn glad that I do. I was riding eastbound on Pescadero Road right at rush 
> hour, Butano Creek has been flooding the road for some time now so when 
> traffic coming from both directions approaches the flooded area both sides 
> form a cue. I was riding faster than I normally do as it had just started 
> to pour and I was headed home, as I followed a car across the flooded 
> section because of the small wake, I couldn't see the fog line which I try 
> to stay to the left of, also I was watching the cars much closer than I was 
> where my front tire was going.Well as you probably guessed I crashed hard 
> when my from tire hit the lip of a pothole at an angle that thru me 
> sideways off the bike. My helmeted head hit the pavement hard, and while I 
> didn't loose consciousness I wasn't able to stand on my own or get up for a 
> minute or two despite laying in 4-5 inches of cold water. There's no 
> question that I'd have been injured far worse than I was had I not had a 
> helmet on. I ended up in a ambulance and was taken to the ER. Today, I'm a 
> bit foggy, and my neck is killing me. I was concussed and have a whiplash, 
> the doctor told me I was lucky I had a helmet on, I did not go over the 
> handlebars but fell sideways and hit the side of my head. 
> I guess my point is I think this accident could happen to anyone, I've 
> been riding bikes since the early 1960's and I haven't crashed this hard in 
> decades. I did make some errors,  like not waiting for the traffic to pass, 
> but I've crossed this spot many times this winter as well as turning around 
> when there's too much water. I'm usually cautious as injuries heal slowly 
> at my age.
> So my question is, helmet or no helmet, and if no helmet why?
>
> Thanks
> Mark
> Pescadero Basin
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: FS big nitto front rack 34F

[john Bokman]

Thanks Tom. I don’t think measuring is necessary.. And thanks to Craig for all 
the fantastic pictures!

I’m surprised the Rim website claims the 34F to be recommended for no more than 
30# loads. I know they are being conservative, but still…If you look at t 
similar looking rack, like Surly’s big Front rack, it claims to hold 70# - 
which I’d not want to carry!

One attribute the 34F has going for it, in my opinion, is the nice big platform 
on which to strap things. I really appreciate the ability to lash something to 
the top while still being able to carry bags down below.

I think I remember that the tubing used for the 34F is 9mm thick? Did you have 
to shim the hooks on your panniers  to make them snug? My panniers have hooks 
for either 8mm or 10mm rails.


> On Feb 27, 2019, at 7:55 PM, Tom Horton  wrote:
> 
> John  all i ever used were ortleibs panniers  i have a set of smaller 
> ortleibs and larger ones
> 
> Both mounted fine on the nitto front rack
> 
> Not sure the triangles will get in yr way  a pretty big rack  be glad to 
> measure it if you want
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Feb 27, 2019, at 6:14 PM, John Bokman  <mailto:jpbco...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
>> Tom, could you tell me what kind of panniers you used with this rack?
>> Looking at the triangulation of the rack, I"m wondering if those added 
>> supports might prevent me from mounting my Lone Peak panniers. I can't 
>> adjust the hooks, unlike an ortlieb or some such. 
>> Do you know if this rack was designed to be used with Riv panniers?
>> Thanks. I like to use a heavy front load on my 32F, and am thinking it's not 
>> so prudent. I also use panniers, so this rack might make sense, if it can 
>> accept my panniers.
>> On Monday, February 25, 2019 at 6:56:26 AM UTC-8, Tom Horton wrote:
>> used this rack lightly for a few years on my atlantis; now enamored of wald 
>> baskets and not going back.
>> 
>> it's in perfect shape,   asking 125 bucks plus shipping. if you are in the 
>> baltimore washington area perhaps I could arrange a drop off.
>> 
>> you can see the exact rack on riv's website.
>> 
>> and still trying to unload my new, in box, 700c schwalbe g one speeds 60mm   
>> make an offer. they retail for about 80 apiece I think.
>> 
>> the rack has a couple custom made, bolt on doohickeys that made it fit 
>> easier on my 68cm atlantis...you won't need 'em for anything smaller, but 
>> included.
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: [RBW] Carradice Super C Pannier question

[john Bokman]

Thanks for the head’s up, Patrick. I have seen these before, and they look like 
excellent bags. However, since I’ll be using these for commuting and shopping, 
and need to install and remove frequently, I’m thinking the attachment may not 
be the best for my use. 

I have happily been using Lone Peak panniers for almost 30 years now. The 
attachment system would be hard to better, in my estimation. Simple hooks on 
the top rail that swivel completely around the rail. No fussy spring-loaded 
mechanisms needed. A bungee cord running down the back of the pannier with an S 
hook at the end to grab whatever part of the rack is down there to accept it. 
The bungee cord length is adjusted by simply tying a knot in the cord (to take 
up slack)  to accommodate sizing needs. The load stays very secure due to 
tension from the bungee.

As a bonus, I find them fairly easy to install and remove.  

Geez, I should just get a replacement pair! But they no longer make the model I 
own, and all equal I would prefer to purchase bags made of Cotton Duck.

> On Mar 1, 2019, at 1:50 PM, 'Deacon Patrick' via RBW Owners Bunch 
>  wrote:
> 
> Not what you were asking, John, but would the Rivendell Back-a-bike Bags work 
> for you? I love them for precisely the reason you are asking about the 
> attachment system. Riv’s are attached with the old school leather straps on 
> top and sold nylon click buckle on the bottom. They are solid on rough stuff 
> and I have no worries of them breaking or detaching, despite rock and tree 
> bashing (and that Scottish cloth is stunningly hearty!). Riv. commercial 
> over. Grin.
> 
> With abandon,
> Patrick
> 
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Re: [RBW] Carradice Super C Pannier question

[john Bokman]

Thanks for the advice.
Are they easy to remove from the bike? Looks like there’s a pinch mechanism?
(Im used to panniers with a bungee and S hook to hold the bag under tension, 
you see).

> On Mar 1, 2019, at 1:20 PM, DarinM  wrote:
> 
> I have a set which I believe use the system you're describing. I have no 
> complaints about the mounting system and have used them on pretty rough 
> stuff. I have used them on a Tubus Tara and a Nitto 34f/Big Front Rack. The 
> lower hook does seem a little flimsy, but again I haven't had issues. I would 
> just take a bungy or strap to put around the outside if I was more worried 
> about that hook on another tour.
> 
> Darin
> 
> On Friday, March 1, 2019 at 11:24:37 AM UTC-8, John Bokman wrote:
> Thanks for the information Toshi.
> We are talking about the same bags.
> Good to know they are secure and easy enough to engage and disengage.
> Are you using these on a Rivendell rack, or some other?
> 
> 
>> On Mar 1, 2019, at 10:43 AM, Toshi Takeuchi > wrote:
>> 
>> I don't know about "new" unless >~10 years old is new, or there's something 
>> newer than what I have.  Anyhow, my hooks on top latch closed around the 
>> rack.  This is extremely secure and works well.  Once you get the hang of 
>> disengaging it, it is easy to remove.  The anti-sway hook on the bottom 
>> works ok.  I had one fall off and had to get a new one, but the pannier will 
>> definitely not fall off the rack--with or without the anti-sway hook 
>> engaged.  I prefer the Carradice hooks to the Ortlieb closure (the one where 
>> you pull up on the strap and the bag releases from the rack).  The Ortlieb 
>> closure seems very size specific (in regard to the rack tubing diameter), 
>> whereas the Carradice accommodates a wider range and can tighten around 
>> different diameter racks no problem.  
>> 
>> Toshi
>> 
>> On Fri, Mar 1, 2019 at 10:28 AM John Bokman > wrote:
>> Does anyone have the "new" Super C's with the cam-style hooks and lower 
>> securing clip?
>> I'm curious if the "new" mounting system is:
>> 1. As secure as a standard good ol' hooks and bungee system, and
>> 2. A hassle to get on and off?
>> 
>> I love Carradice stuff, but am dubious about this securing system.
>> 
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[RBW] Carradice Super C Pannier question

[John Bokman]

Does anyone have the "new" Super C's with the cam-style hooks and lower 
securing clip?
I'm curious if the "new" mounting system is:
1. As secure as a standard good ol' hooks and bungee system, and
2. A hassle to get on and off?

I love Carradice stuff, but am dubious about this securing system.

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Re: [RBW] Carradice Super C Pannier question

[john Bokman]

Thanks for the information Toshi.
We are talking about the same bags.
Good to know they are secure and easy enough to engage and disengage.
Are you using these on a Rivendell rack, or some other?


> On Mar 1, 2019, at 10:43 AM, Toshi Takeuchi  wrote:
> 
> I don't know about "new" unless >~10 years old is new, or there's something 
> newer than what I have.  Anyhow, my hooks on top latch closed around the 
> rack.  This is extremely secure and works well.  Once you get the hang of 
> disengaging it, it is easy to remove.  The anti-sway hook on the bottom works 
> ok.  I had one fall off and had to get a new one, but the pannier will 
> definitely not fall off the rack--with or without the anti-sway hook engaged. 
>  I prefer the Carradice hooks to the Ortlieb closure (the one where you pull 
> up on the strap and the bag releases from the rack).  The Ortlieb closure 
> seems very size specific (in regard to the rack tubing diameter), whereas the 
> Carradice accommodates a wider range and can tighten around different 
> diameter racks no problem.  
> 
> Toshi
> 
> On Fri, Mar 1, 2019 at 10:28 AM John Bokman  <mailto:jpbco...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> Does anyone have the "new" Super C's with the cam-style hooks and lower 
> securing clip?
> I'm curious if the "new" mounting system is:
> 1. As secure as a standard good ol' hooks and bungee system, and
> 2. A hassle to get on and off?
> 
> I love Carradice stuff, but am dubious about this securing system.
> 
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Re: [RBW] Carradice Super C Pannier question

[john Bokman]

John, thanks a lot for the head’s up. I actually live not far from their 
headquarters here in Portland. I have not given them serious consideration 
before. I will give them a better look. They do look like nice bags. I must 
admit I’ve been a little off-put by the price. But if they give value over 
time, they are a bargain (like my Lone Peaks - going on 27 years now).

> On Mar 1, 2019, at 5:14 PM, John McBurney  wrote:
> 
> yeah when you commute you don’t leave your bags on the bike. That said there 
> are properties in a bag that either work in an environment like PDX or they 
> don’t. I have found that over time I use my North St. Bags consistently 
> because they are easy to mount very waterproof and a good size.They have held 
> up well in daily use for more than 4 years. They are medium sized which is 
> really good as far as i am concerned.
> 
> North St. has changed their mounting system some since I bought mine. Mine 
> are not like Ortilieb at all which I have not problem with but they work on a 
> broad range of racks and aren’t  “fiddly”
> 
> 
> 
> John 
> 
> John
> 
> On Fri, Mar 1, 2019 at 7:30 PM 'Deacon Patrick' via RBW Owners Bunch 
>  > wrote:
> Gotcha, John. I’ve been surprised by how small the delta in mounting time is 
> between Riv’s panniers and modern systems, but can see how it would be a bit 
> frustrating for on/off multiple times a day. Not a big deal on/off each 
> night/morning when bikepacking, or for errand day. If I may ask, is it 
> security concers that has you taking them on/off so frequently?
> 
> With abandon,
> Patrick
> 
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Re: [RBW] Carradice Super C Pannier question

[john Bokman]

Deacon, I hitch my hoss  (Sam) to the post all day and can’t leave the 
saddlebags. I use my saddlebags not just for grocery shopping, but for my work 
stuff (I teach and need 3-ring binders, notebooks, books, etc.). I also want 
bags that do 2x duty for touring, when I get the chance. So, conservatively, I 
mount/unmount them at least 4 times daily, but often more like 6 or more. It 
all adds up…I want bags that are easy on and off.

If I were buying bags primarily for touring, I’d definitely consider the 
Rivendell bags more seriously.

> On Mar 1, 2019, at 4:30 PM, 'Deacon Patrick' via RBW Owners Bunch 
>  wrote:
> 
> Gotcha, John. I’ve been surprised by how small the delta in mounting time is 
> between Riv’s panniers and modern systems, but can see how it would be a bit 
> frustrating for on/off multiple times a day. Not a big deal on/off each 
> night/morning when bikepacking, or for errand day. If I may ask, is it 
> security concers that has you taking them on/off so frequently?
> 
> With abandon,
> Patrick
> 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Carradice Super C Pannier question

[john Bokman]

Craig, those are gorgeous bags, and you make a strong case for them. I only 
wish there were a size between the small fronts (28 liters) and the enormous 
rears (54 liters!).

I am usually of a “go bigger, why not?” mindset. But these are really large.
Choices, choices….arrgh! Big or small? 

Question: Looking at reviews, it appears that there is universal agreement that 
the outside pocket of the large panniers is prone to spilling its contents 
because the strap does not snug enough. Do you find this to be the case? Or 
could one simply punch another hole in the strap?

I would need this outside pocket for sundries in my day to day. I need some 
kind of pocket (zippered or otherwise) in my day-to-day pannier. Something in 
which to stash wallet, keys, phone, etc.



> On Mar 1, 2019, at 10:46 PM, Craig Montgomery  wrote:
> 
> These are the guys I'm sure. Tough as nails. Super C rears are huge. You'll 
> master the hook thingie up top pretty quickly. You have to position the 
> bottom (slideable) hook for the specific struts of your rack. I use Nitto Big 
> Racks front and rear. Then what I do is wrap some cotton handlebar tape 
> around the strut where the hook touches it. Duct tape would work too. That 
> makes the fit a bit more positive, and quieter (if you ride unladen they can 
> rattle at the hook). That cushion also helps to reduce stress on the slider 
> hook. Another neat thing about the Super C rears is that the tops lay even 
> with your rack. That way you can pile stuff (in my case sleeping bag, pad, 
> tent, AND a camp chair-indulge me, I'm an old man) on top of your rack. The 
> old Super C's puffed up when you filled them to capacity. Of course, don't 
> forget the coolness factor. 
> 
> 
> Craig in Tucson
> 
> On Friday, March 1, 2019 at 11:28:22 AM UTC-7, John Bokman wrote:
> Does anyone have the "new" Super C's with the cam-style hooks and lower 
> securing clip?
> I'm curious if the "new" mounting system is:
> 1. As secure as a standard good ol' hooks and bungee system, and
> 2. A hassle to get on and off?
> 
> I love Carradice stuff, but am dubious about this securing system.
> 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Carradice Super C Pannier question

[John Bokman]

To all who helped elucidate me: Thank You!

I struggled with the choice, but in the end ordered a set of Super C Rear 
bags from SJS.

Ride with the wind at your backs.

John

On Sunday, March 3, 2019 at 9:42:16 PM UTC-8, Ian A wrote:
>
> +1. I bought a pair of Super C front panniers from SJS and paid a small 
> fortune in shipping. Buying from Carradice directly can result in lower 
> shipping costs, but SJS seem to have lower prices on the same items, so 
> paying the higher shipping can more economical than buying direct.
>
> SJS is always worth supporting. A super shop, knowledgeable, courteous and 
> helpful.
>
> IanA Alberta Canada
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Carradice Super C Pannier question

[john Bokman]

Thanks Sean. That’s what I was thinking. I have some Super C Rear bags coming.
Wish the front bags were in between the size they are, and the large. Very nice 
looking bags. They would be great for overnight trips and the like.

> On Mar 6, 2019, at 9:34 AM, sean  wrote:
> 
> Hi John,
> 
> The outside front pockets can easily fit a wallet. phone, keys. However, I 
> wouldn't recommend storing those things in such a vulnerable place (low to 
> the ground, near the wheel, kind of out of line of sight - might miss if 
> things pop out).
> 
> The front panniers are great but the base is indeed smaller. You can probably 
> cram some binders in there, but not an optimum fit. Much better for soft 
> goods (clothes, loaves of bread, etc)
> 
> Sean
> 
> 
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[RBW] Re: Carradice Super C front pannier fit

[John Bokman]

Thanks Toshi!
This is the information I was after. 
I suspected as much, so ordered the Super C Rear panniers.
If I find they are too monsterous for my daily riding needs, I may well try 
their commuter pannier for my everyday riding and reserve the Rear's for 
tours or major grocery trips.


On Monday, March 4, 2019 at 8:46:55 PM UTC-8, ttoshi wrote:
>
> I put in 3 binders: 2 one inch and 1-2 inch binders.  They were not full 
> as pictured and it was a tight fit.  
>
> The front pocket can easily fit a wallet and phone.  I would not commute 
> with the front pannier.  I love the Carradice commuter pannier which looks 
> like a briefcase and can easily hold a computer and fit things like binders 
> etc.
>
> Toshi
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Carradice Super C Pannier question

[john Bokman]

Sean, thanks for the reply.

Q: Since you use the Universal front bags: In your estimation would I be able 
to fit a 3-ring binder or a few of them in there? I did not get them because it 
looks like they taper down pretty narrow (6” wide  by my rough calculation)
at the bottom. And they don’t look all that deep, so fitting a few or a book or 
two in addition might be tough?

If I were able to do that I might get a set of front panniers in the future and 
reserve the large ones for touring and grocery getting.

And, how large is the outside front pocket? Enough to fit a wallet, phone, 
keys, etc.?
> On Mar 4, 2019, at 11:22 AM, sean  wrote:
> 
> Hi John,
> 
> I use Super C's on a daily basis and can't "wax" on enough about them (get 
> it? :) I have both the mini/universal front panniers and the rear (large) 
> panniers. These bags are bomb proof, look great with wear, and keep the rain 
> out. I have never had a problem with losing anything out of the smaller, rear 
> pockets. Usually I carry tubes in there, water bottles, or bombers of beer 
> when I'm grocery shopping. The two large rear panniers can each swallow an 
> entire 12-pack box of Topo Chico (glass bottles) without any problem. And I 
> have room to stack other sundries on top. Grocery shoppers are shocked when 
> they see me stuffing these large boxes into my bags. The bags can even be 
> overstuffed as well since there is ample room on the webbing straps by just 
> adjusting the placement of the fastex buckle.The top straps (where the "carry 
> webbing" is) also can be adjusted to cinch down flat items across the top of 
> the bags. As you can probably tell, I routinely grocery shop with these 
> formidable bags.
> 
> The "new" system of hooks is a VAST improvement over the older ratcheting 
> system. It basically involves slotting the provided spacers (for different 
> diameter rack tubes) into the hooks and using the newer spring-mounted latch 
> as the 3rd securing point to the rack. The lower anti-sway bar is easy to 
> adjust and together these work great to keep the bags secure while also 
> enabling easy removal.
> 
> I love SJS and shipping /cost time has never bothered me, you could try 
> BikeShopHub in Tucson: 
> https://www.bikeshophub.com/product-category/carradice-bags/carradice-panniers
>  
> 
>  but will pay more.
> 
> Woops, it looks you've already purchased from SJS. Well done! You're gonna 
> love these bags.
> 
> Sean
> ATX
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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[RBW] Re: FS big nitto front rack 34F

[John Bokman]

Tom, could you tell me what kind of panniers you used with this rack?
Looking at the triangulation of the rack, I"m wondering if those added 
supports might prevent me from mounting my Lone Peak panniers. I can't 
adjust the hooks, unlike an ortlieb or some such. 
Do you know if this rack was designed to be used with Riv panniers?
Thanks. I like to use a heavy front load on my 32F, and am thinking it's 
not so prudent. I also use panniers, so this rack might make sense, if it 
can accept my panniers.
On Monday, February 25, 2019 at 6:56:26 AM UTC-8, Tom Horton wrote:
>
> used this rack lightly for a few years on my atlantis; now enamored of 
> wald baskets and not going back.
>
> it's in perfect shape,   asking 125 bucks plus shipping. if you are in the 
> baltimore washington area perhaps I could arrange a drop off.
>
> you can see the exact rack on riv's website.
>
> and still trying to unload my new, in box, 700c schwalbe g one speeds 
> 60mm   make an offer. they retail for about 80 apiece I think.
>
> the rack has a couple custom made, bolt on doohickeys that made it fit 
> easier on my 68cm atlantis...you won't need 'em for anything smaller, but 
> included.
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: New bike day. 56cm 650B Atlantis

[John Bokman]

Time for a review yet?
I'm eager to hear about the ride - especially with the long stays.

On Wednesday, January 16, 2019 at 10:30:21 AM UTC-8, Mark Schneider wrote:
>
> That's one sweet build Bill, look forward to a review.
>
> Mark
>
> On Saturday, January 12, 2019 at 2:45:36 PM UTC-8, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>> As man of you noticed I put four framesets up for sale with the intent to 
>> buy one new one. I only sold one of the four, with a bit of interest on two 
>> more, but went ahead and picked up my new MIT Atlantis frameset yesterday. 
>> It's a 56cm with 650B x 55mm tires.  The entire build kit came off my 54cm 
>> Rosco Bubbe Step Through.  It's got a 2x10 Shimano drivetrain, CX70 brakes, 
>> Cliffhanger rims.  I'm going to use it as a drop bar mountain bike and a 
>> forest road explorer up in Gold Country.  I'm pleased with how the build 
>> turned out and I'm excited about the bike.  Besides the longer chainstays 
>> and the absence of a second top tube, this bike is basically identical to 
>> the 56cm Bombadil I used to have.  
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Anyone have Rivendell Reader #23?

[John Bokman]

Reed, I have it. Would be glad to send to you if you get it back to me. I 
don't have a way to scan it.

On Sunday, March 17, 2019 at 10:27:50 PM UTC-7, Reed Kennedy wrote:
>
> I just realized the copy of Rivendell Reader #23 up on my site is missing 
> a *bunch* of pages. Including the pages on the Boxy Bag that I wanted to 
> re-read.
>
> Does anyone have a paper copy that they could scan? Or send to me so I can 
> scan?
>
>
> Best,
> Reed Kennedy
> San Francisco, CA
>

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[RBW] Re: daily post ur riv

[John Bokman]

Adam, could you tell me:
What size basket?
What width handlebars?
What's the bag in the basket?

I'm considering putting a rack on my 58 cm Sam, you see. I run 44cm 
noodles. Not sure if the big basket wouldn't just be too massive, but 
unsure.

On Friday, February 1, 2019 at 11:29:13 AM UTC-8, Adam Leibow wrote:
>
> hi all, i want to create a thread where you just post a picture of your 
> rivendell(s) whenever you feel like it. hope this is OK w/ the mods. i love 
> lookin at pics of em all day. i will start with my sam hillborne.
>
>
> [image: IMG_3920.jpeg]
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Drop Bar Fans: anyone tried the 50cm So Bar?

[john Bokman]

Thanks for that Brian. I’ll keep this in mind. Not sure if I want to try an 
even wider bar or not at the moment. While I like the 44cm noodles, I’m tempted 
to try the “true” 48 cm width, only with more flare, so I might want to try the 
52cm RM-013 rather than the 48cm. But as I said, this is all still a project in 
my mind at this point. For most riding I don’t think I would benefit from wider 
bars. But when I’m hauling big loads, it would be kind of nice to have that 
extra leverage up front - especially when I’ve overfilled my load on the front.

> On Mar 22, 2019, at 5:53 AM, Coal Bee Rye Anne  
> wrote:
> 
> John,
> Here’s a good comparison of the RM013 toRM014 as well as the Noodle.
> http://biketouringnews.com/components-touring-bicycles/cockpit/touring-bike-handlebars/nitto-dirt-drop-handlebars/
> 
> I actually have a 26.0 RM013 in 48cm width... which is narrower than and 
> measured differently than a 48 Noodle and may more closely resemble your 44 
> Noodle with the flare you’re looking for.  I’m no longer using these and 
> found them a little narrow for my own needs but would be open to sale or 
> trade, if you were interested in giving them a try.  They are currently in 
> storage with some other spare parts and still need to be unwrapped/cleaned 
> but contact me offlist if interested and I could grab them one day, take 
> pics, etc.
> 
> Brian Cole
> Lawrenceville NJ
> 
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