Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Pedro Quaresma]

Lee K. Seitz wrote:
>Second was a vintage Pac-Man tie.  Again, I'd never seen one, just the
>ad in the back of a video game book I'd gotten in the early '80s.  I
>put the fact I wanted one in my signature, so it got posted all over
>Usenet.

Not sure if you're interested, but there's a pair of Pac-Man shoelaces on eBay atm :)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3071890836&category=4315

Ms Pac Man version too!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3071889305&category=4315

--
Pedro R. Quaresma
Salvador Caetano IMVT
Div. Sistemas de Informação / Systems and Information Division
Administração e Desenvolvimento Lotus Notes / 
Lotus Notes Administration and Development
[EMAIL PROTECTED] // +351 22 7867000 (ext. 3492)

Toyota Prius '01, Aqua Ice Opalescent, 37K km., "Esperanza"
 
'People don't quit playing because they grow old. They grow old because they quit playing.' - Oliver Wendell Holmes 




ToyotaShopping - A sua Loja Toyota Online
http://www.toyota.pt

Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Lee K. Seitz]

[Whoops.  I just discovered (over a week later), this reply only went
to Brian instead of the whole list.]

Brian the Fist stated:
>
>On the other hand, there are some games I have been searching for for
>years and have not seen EVER on eBay (or anywhere else), even once, thus
>making them even more rare than Akalabeth or Mt. Drash technically.  And
>when I come across one like this by some rare fluke, I may get it for as
>low as $10 (maybe no one else wants it, who knows).

Yeah, it's interesting when you see something you've been hoping to
find forever on eBay and you worry it'll go for something outrageous,
but it turns out you're practically the only person that wants it.
This has happened to me twice.

First, an Atari Liberator t-shirt appeared.  I'd never even seen a
picture of one before that.  I only knew it existed because of a scan
of the Atari company newsletter available on the Web.  There was one
other "serious" bidder, but I won at "only" $34.  Then, of course, the
same seller put up a second Liberator t-shirt.  (Argh!)  I think it
went for around $25.

Second was a vintage Pac-Man tie.  Again, I'd never seen one, just the
ad in the back of a video game book I'd gotten in the early '80s.  I
put the fact I wanted one in my signature, so it got posted all over
Usenet.  I was becoming convinced it didn't actually exist when one
popped up in a lot of Pac-Man stuff (but "Pac-Man tie" was in the
title).  I won the lot for $26 (my bid was about $50).  I actually had
somebody e-mail me after I won asking if I'd sell him just the tie
since that's all he was interested in.

I can't say for certain if either of these items have ever appeared on
eBay again since.  (I stopped doing those searches since I got mine.)
But I can tell you that both of them are darn rare.

-- 
Lee K. Seitz
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Jim Leonard]

Edward Franks wrote:

On Jan 12, 2004, at 1:36 PM, Marco Thorek wrote:
[Snip]
Is it an audio tape, as Jim hints? At first I thought it may be a video
and the same that came as mpg with the Ultima collection.


It is an audio tape.  You can listen to a RealAudio version here 
.
The link is broken.  I mean, the page itself comes up, but click on a 
link to listen and you're taken to an advertising page.
--
Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
World's largest electronic gaming project:http://www.MobyGames.com/
A delicious slice of the demoscene:http://www.MindCandyDVD.com/
Various oldskool PC rants and ramblings:   http://www.oldskool.org/

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Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Edward Franks]

On Jan 12, 2004, at 1:36 PM, Marco Thorek wrote:
[Snip]
Is it an audio tape, as Jim hints? At first I thought it may be a video
and the same that came as mpg with the Ultima collection.
	It is an audio tape.  You can listen to a RealAudio version here 
.

--

Edward Franks

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Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Marco Thorek]

Edward Franks schrieb:
> 
> It is a cassette where Richard Garriott talks about the first time
> years of Ultima.

Is it an audio tape, as Jim hints? At first I thought it may be a video
and the same that came as mpg with the Ultima collection.

Marco

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Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Jim Leonard]

Edward Franks wrote:
Am I having a brain cramp about how to use Moby?
No, I think you've uncovered a problem in the credits, actually.  The 
info submitted was incorrect.  I've asked the team to take a look at it.

To answer your question exactly, Alan did not directly work on the PC 
version, if memory serves.  The PC port was done by one or maybe two 
people at most.
--
Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
World's largest electronic gaming project:http://www.MobyGames.com/
A delicious slice of the demoscene:http://www.MindCandyDVD.com/
Various oldskool PC rants and ramblings:   http://www.oldskool.org/

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Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Edward Franks]

On Jan 12, 2004, at 9:38 AM, Jim Leonard wrote:

Edward Franks wrote:
I've got the C64 version.  Did Pavlish work on that port?  I did 
a bit of Googling on Wasteland, but didn't see a clear answer.
>SMACK<  Infidel!  Use mobygames.com and you'll have the answer in 
seconds.
	I did.  ;-)  It is ambiguous.  The Apple ][ and Commodore 64 pages 
don't list any names that I can see.  I see info on the DOS version 
which would lead me to think that Alan Pavlish wrote the DOS version 
and Michael Quaries did the ports to the Apple ][ and/or Commodore 64.  
That's opposite from what people have said here.

	Am I having a brain cramp about how to use Moby?

--

Edward Franks

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Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Jim Leonard]

Edward Franks wrote:
I've got the C64 version.  Did Pavlish work on that port?  I did a 
bit of Googling on Wasteland, but didn't see a clear answer.
>SMACK<  Infidel!  Use mobygames.com and you'll have the answer in seconds.
--
Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
World's largest electronic gaming project:http://www.MobyGames.com/
A delicious slice of the demoscene:http://www.MindCandyDVD.com/
Various oldskool PC rants and ramblings:   http://www.oldskool.org/
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Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Jim Leonard]

Edward Franks wrote:
On Jan 10, 2004, at 9:14 PM, Marco Thorek wrote:

Edward Franks schrieb:

It is the Ultima VI special edition with the 10 years of Ultima
cassette.


What is the "10 years of Ultima" cassette?


It is a cassette where Richard Garriott talks about the first time 
years of Ultima.
Has anyone dumped that yet?  I've never heard of it and it should really 
be backed up to MP3...
--
Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
World's largest electronic gaming project:http://www.MobyGames.com/
A delicious slice of the demoscene:http://www.MindCandyDVD.com/
Various oldskool PC rants and ramblings:   http://www.oldskool.org/

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RE: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[John Romero]

I can still contact Alan and ask him. :)

- john


The goal of the works of a genius' existance lies only in itself.


> -Original Message-
> From: Jim Leonard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2004 6:41 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value
> 
> 
> Edward Franks wrote:
> 
> > Yes I would.  I don't care if it added a penny to the market 
> > value,
> > it would be more valuable to me.  One of my favorite Ultimas is the 
> > Ultima VI signed by both Richard Garriott and Denis Loubet.
> 
> Holy cow.  I never liked the Ultima series, and I'm not 
> particularly fond of 
> Garriott, but even I have to admit that's one hell of a piece.
> 
> > I have a number of games that would be neat to have 
> signed, but I
> > think what I would like most to would be to have Werdna and 
> Trebor sign 
> > one of my copies of Wizardry.  :-D  Take a step, fight, 
> fight, fight, 
> > graph, repeat.
> 
> :)  I probably should have taken John up on his offer to get 
> my Wasteland 
> signed by Pavlish.  However, I have the IBM version, which 
> Pavlish didn't 
> personally touch, so I wonder if he'd "Kitchen" it instead ;-D
> -- 
> Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
> http://www.oldskool.org/
> Want to help an ambitious games 
> project? http://www.mobygames.com/
> Or check out some trippy MindCandy at 
> http://www.mindcandydvd.com/
> 
> 
> 
> --
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> 



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Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[C.E. Forman]

I've started doing that now, even warning "I will leave negative feedback if
the item is damaged due to poor protection."  Probably makes me sound like a
jerk, but I am so thoroughly sick of half-assed packaging.

- Original Message - 
From: "Hugh Falk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2004 3:03 PM
Subject: RE: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value


> As standard procedure for the last few years I ask every seller to:
> "Please pack in a box so the game isn't folded or crushed during
> shipment."  I haven't had a problem since doing that.
>
> Hugh


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Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Edward Franks]

On Jan 10, 2004, at 9:14 PM, Marco Thorek wrote:

Edward Franks schrieb:
It is the Ultima VI special edition with the 10 years of 
Ultima
cassette.
What is the "10 years of Ultima" cassette?
	It is a cassette where Richard Garriott talks about the first time 
years of Ultima.

--

Edward Franks

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Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Marco Thorek]

Edward Franks schrieb:
> 
> It is the Ultima VI special edition with the 10 years of Ultima
> cassette.  

What is the "10 years of Ultima" cassette?

Marco

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Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Edward Franks]

On Jan 10, 2004, at 8:41 PM, Jim Leonard wrote:

Edward Franks wrote:

Yes I would.  I don't care if it added a penny to the market 
value, it would be more valuable to me.  One of my favorite Ultimas 
is the Ultima VI signed by both Richard Garriott and Denis Loubet.
Holy cow.  I never liked the Ultima series, and I'm not particularly 
fond of Garriott, but even I have to admit that's one hell of a piece.
	It is the Ultima VI special edition with the 10 years of Ultima 
cassette.  I forget how many were made, but it isn't a one off.  I have 
added to the box a little by stuffing in a U6 clue book and someone's 
U6 completion certificate I picked up off of eBay.  I figure that's one 
way of not loosing the goodies.

I have a number of games that would be neat to have signed, but I 
think what I would like most to would be to have Werdna and Trebor 
sign one of my copies of Wizardry.  :-D  Take a step, fight, fight, 
fight, graph, repeat.
:)  I probably should have taken John up on his offer to get my 
Wasteland signed by Pavlish.  However, I have the IBM version, which 
Pavlish didn't personally touch, so I wonder if he'd "Kitchen" it 
instead ;-D
	I've got the C64 version.  Did Pavlish work on that port?  I did a bit 
of Googling on Wasteland, but didn't see a clear answer.

--

Edward Franks

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Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Jim Leonard]

Dan Chisarick wrote:

Ow! Ow! Ow! Ow!  One of my most recent purchases was squashed like a 
bug.  And this was from someone who sells vintage games, not someone 
cleaning out the attic (no one here).  I wasn't overly concerned about 
the title's condition, but I sent a message that I would have happily 
paid more had I known it would be shipped in a thin plastic envelope.  
The reply was that they would have happily upgraded the carton had I 
offered to pay more.  Now there's a no-win argument.
AT LEAST THEY USED AN ENVELOPE!  My worst shipment was Outcast (1998), 
probably the last voxel game ever written in the world and one hell of an 
adventure game, shipped BY ITSELF WRAPPED IN BROWN PAPER.  I know I could have 
gotten it again/cheap, but the stupidity of it just drove me nuts.  I 
specifically asked them to pack it well -- their answer was, "but we put some 
styrofoam inside the box..."  |-P
--
Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED])http://www.oldskool.org/
Want to help an ambitious games project? http://www.mobygames.com/
Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/

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Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Jim Leonard]

Edward Franks wrote:

Yes I would.  I don't care if it added a penny to the market value, 
it would be more valuable to me.  One of my favorite Ultimas is the 
Ultima VI signed by both Richard Garriott and Denis Loubet.
Holy cow.  I never liked the Ultima series, and I'm not particularly fond of 
Garriott, but even I have to admit that's one hell of a piece.

I have a number of games that would be neat to have signed, but I 
think what I would like most to would be to have Werdna and Trebor sign 
one of my copies of Wizardry.  :-D  Take a step, fight, fight, fight, 
graph, repeat.
:)  I probably should have taken John up on his offer to get my Wasteland 
signed by Pavlish.  However, I have the IBM version, which Pavlish didn't 
personally touch, so I wonder if he'd "Kitchen" it instead ;-D
--
Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED])http://www.oldskool.org/
Want to help an ambitious games project? http://www.mobygames.com/
Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/

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RE: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[John Romero]

Sure, that's no problem. Andrew Greenberg is an attorney in Florida
right now. :)

- john


The goal of the works of a genius' existance lies only in itself.


> -Original Message-
> From: Edward Franks [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2004 7:58 AM
> To: Software Collectibles Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value
> 
> 
> 
> On Jan 8, 2004, at 2:16 AM, John Romero wrote:
> [Snip]
> > I have an interesting question for you guys
> >
> > Would you consigder a classic game more valuable if it was signed by
> > the
> > author?
> 
>   Yes I would.  I don't care if it added a penny to the 
> market value, it 
> would be more valuable to me.  One of my favorite Ultimas is 
> the Ultima 
> VI signed by both Richard Garriott and Denis Loubet.
> 
> > If so, and you'd like your classic Apple II games signed, I 
> might know 
> > where the author is and could persuade him to sign em. :)
> 
>   Thanks John for the offer.  It is appreciated.
> 
>   I have a number of games that would be neat to have 
> signed, but I 
> think what I would like most to would be to have Werdna and 
> Trebor sign 
> one of my copies of Wizardry.  :-D  Take a step, fight, fight, fight, 
> graph, repeat.
> 
> -- 
> 
> Edward Franks
> 
> 
> --
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RE: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Hugh Falk]

As standard procedure for the last few years I ask every seller to:
"Please pack in a box so the game isn't folded or crushed during
shipment."  I haven't had a problem since doing that.

Hugh

-Original Message-
From: Dan Chisarick [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2004 12:16 PM
To: Software Collectibles Mailing List
Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

Ow! Ow! Ow! Ow!  One of my most recent purchases was squashed like a 
bug.  And this was from someone who sells vintage games, not someone 
cleaning out the attic (no one here).  I wasn't overly concerned about 
the title's condition, but I sent a message that I would have happily 
paid more had I known it would be shipped in a thin plastic envelope.  
The reply was that they would have happily upgraded the carton had I 
offered to pay more.  Now there's a no-win argument.

The first time this happened to me I had a boilerplate reply stating my 
shipping requirements on every purchase going forward.  It was tedious 
(I eventually stopped) and even that wasn't 100% effective.  The only 
time I got shafted on ebay was some lady selling a bunch of goodies for 
a low price.  She had a religious theme to her auctions, and a link to 
her church.  When I said how I needed it shipped, she said it would 
take time.  Around then the negative feedback piled up (paid but no 
delivery) and eventually her account was summarily revoked.  Of course 
since it was past 30 days, no recourse.  Perhaps poor shipping was 
better than no shipping.

It just seems there's no rhyme or reason to this sort of thing.  I wish 
people were more paranoid about packaging.


On Jan 10, 2004, at 12:37 AM, C.E. Forman wrote:

> It's still up on my news page (www.yois.biz/news).  I still get pissed

> when
> I think about it or look at the package, so I don't think I'll retype 
> it
> here.
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "John Romero" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "C.E. Forman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 10:23 PM
> Subject: RE: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value
>
>
> Hey therewhat happened with Dan Kitchen?  He was my exec producer 
> on
> my GBA title about 6 months ago... I personally don't have respect for
> him after that debacle.
>
> - John
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: C.E. Forman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 6:28 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value
>
> I've got a number of signed items, from authors I've tracked down on
my
> own,
> and I consider them more valuable than an unsigned package in similar
> condition.  Right now I'm still letting the wounds heal after my
> disastrous
> run-in with Dan Kitchen, but maybe down the road I'll take you up on 
> the
> offer, John.  B-)
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "John Romero" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 2:16 AM
> Subject: RE: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value
>
>
>> I have an interesting question for you guys
>>
>> Would you consigder a classic game more valuable if it was signed by
> the
>> author?
>>
>> If so, and you'd like your classic Apple II games signed, I might
know
>> where the author is and could persuade him to sign em. :)
>>
>> I have a few old Apple II games signed by their authors and I've
> gotten
>> some nice reactions from them
>>
>> - john
>>
>>
>> The goal of the works of a genius' existance lies only in itself.
>>
>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Dan Chisarick [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 2:51 PM
>>> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value
>>>
>>>
>>> I saw what I think was a re-packaged Doriath in the last 2-3
>>> months but
>>> other than that, zip.  "Black Magic" for the Apple was the
>>> first Apple
>>> game I bought off ebay.  That was 2+ years ago, and I might have
> only
>>> seen one since then.  Superb game.  Does not take long to
>>> beat.  Tower
>>> of Myraglen has a puzzle where you can only enter a certain passage
>>> (rather early in the game too) at midnight.  And that's
>>> midnight on the
>>> computer's system clock :)  The first day I played it it
>>> happened to be
>>> near midnight, and I walked right in.  The next day I couldn't
> figure
&

Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Dan Chisarick]

Ow! Ow! Ow! Ow!  One of my most recent purchases was squashed like a 
bug.  And this was from someone who sells vintage games, not someone 
cleaning out the attic (no one here).  I wasn't overly concerned about 
the title's condition, but I sent a message that I would have happily 
paid more had I known it would be shipped in a thin plastic envelope.  
The reply was that they would have happily upgraded the carton had I 
offered to pay more.  Now there's a no-win argument.

The first time this happened to me I had a boilerplate reply stating my 
shipping requirements on every purchase going forward.  It was tedious 
(I eventually stopped) and even that wasn't 100% effective.  The only 
time I got shafted on ebay was some lady selling a bunch of goodies for 
a low price.  She had a religious theme to her auctions, and a link to 
her church.  When I said how I needed it shipped, she said it would 
take time.  Around then the negative feedback piled up (paid but no 
delivery) and eventually her account was summarily revoked.  Of course 
since it was past 30 days, no recourse.  Perhaps poor shipping was 
better than no shipping.

It just seems there's no rhyme or reason to this sort of thing.  I wish 
people were more paranoid about packaging.

On Jan 10, 2004, at 12:37 AM, C.E. Forman wrote:

It's still up on my news page (www.yois.biz/news).  I still get pissed 
when
I think about it or look at the package, so I don't think I'll retype 
it
here.

- Original Message -
From: "John Romero" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "C.E. Forman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 10:23 PM
Subject: RE: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value
Hey therewhat happened with Dan Kitchen?  He was my exec producer 
on
my GBA title about 6 months ago... I personally don't have respect for
him after that debacle.

- John

-Original Message-
From: C.E. Forman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 6:28 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value
I've got a number of signed items, from authors I've tracked down on my
own,
and I consider them more valuable than an unsigned package in similar
condition.  Right now I'm still letting the wounds heal after my
disastrous
run-in with Dan Kitchen, but maybe down the road I'll take you up on 
the
offer, John.  B-)

- Original Message -
From: "John Romero" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 2:16 AM
Subject: RE: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

I have an interesting question for you guys

Would you consigder a classic game more valuable if it was signed by
the
author?

If so, and you'd like your classic Apple II games signed, I might know
where the author is and could persuade him to sign em. :)
I have a few old Apple II games signed by their authors and I've
gotten
some nice reactions from them

- john

The goal of the works of a genius' existance lies only in itself.


-Original Message-
From: Dan Chisarick [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 2:51 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value
I saw what I think was a re-packaged Doriath in the last 2-3
months but
other than that, zip.  "Black Magic" for the Apple was the
first Apple
game I bought off ebay.  That was 2+ years ago, and I might have
only
seen one since then.  Superb game.  Does not take long to
beat.  Tower
of Myraglen has a puzzle where you can only enter a certain passage
(rather early in the game too) at midnight.  And that's
midnight on the
computer's system clock :)  The first day I played it it
happened to be
near midnight, and I walked right in.  The next day I couldn't
figure
out how to get in.

On Jan 6, 2004, at 8:56 PM, Brian the Fist wrote:

Not to pick nits, but the "true" piece of art is the game code
itself. The extras -- manual, cloth map, etc. -- are what make it
collectable, but the art is the entire package, which includes
the
game.  What good is the manual if you can't play?
Perhaps I wasn't clear, I meant 'art' in reference to art
collecting
mentioned earlier.  Thus I was being quite literal - I collect
'box
art'.

On the other hand, there are some games I have been searching
for
for years and have not seen EVER on eBay (or anywhere else),
even
once, thus making them even more rare than Akalabeth or Mt.
Drash
technically.
And
when I come across one like this by some rare fluke, I may get
it
for as
low as $10 (maybe no one else wants it, who knows).
Like what, out of curiousity?
One that immediately comes to mind is Destiny by Software
Investments
Plus.  Doriath was also incredibly difficult to find (an
excellent C64
game if you've never tried it).  Got both cheap, but

Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Edward Franks]

On Jan 8, 2004, at 2:16 AM, John Romero wrote:
[Snip]
I have an interesting question for you guys

Would you consigder a classic game more valuable if it was signed by 
the
author?
	Yes I would.  I don't care if it added a penny to the market value, it 
would be more valuable to me.  One of my favorite Ultimas is the Ultima 
VI signed by both Richard Garriott and Denis Loubet.

If so, and you'd like your classic Apple II games signed, I might know
where the author is and could persuade him to sign em. :)
	Thanks John for the offer.  It is appreciated.

	I have a number of games that would be neat to have signed, but I 
think what I would like most to would be to have Werdna and Trebor sign 
one of my copies of Wizardry.  :-D  Take a step, fight, fight, fight, 
graph, repeat.

--

Edward Franks

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RE: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Hugh Falk]

Unfortunately, I am missing the disk for this.  I only have the manual,
but it looks just like Stephane's picture.

Hugh

-Original Message-
From: Stephane Racle [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 3:13 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

This is what mine looks like... There must have been a few variations.

Edward Franks wrote:

>
> On Jan 8, 2004, at 2:58 PM, Stephane Racle wrote:
>
>> I also noticed just a couple of days ago that my Odyssey manual was 
>> actually very different from his. Mine is essentially black and 
>> white, almost newspaperish, while his has a full colour cover. I 
>> wonder if your disk goes with the one I have? Or do you have the same

>> book as Howard too?
>
>
> I have the version as Howard.
>



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Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[C.E. Forman]

It's still up on my news page (www.yois.biz/news).  I still get pissed when
I think about it or look at the package, so I don't think I'll retype it
here.

- Original Message - 
From: "John Romero" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "C.E. Forman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 10:23 PM
Subject: RE: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value


Hey therewhat happened with Dan Kitchen?  He was my exec producer on
my GBA title about 6 months ago... I personally don't have respect for
him after that debacle.

- John


-Original Message-
From: C.E. Forman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 6:28 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

I've got a number of signed items, from authors I've tracked down on my
own,
and I consider them more valuable than an unsigned package in similar
condition.  Right now I'm still letting the wounds heal after my
disastrous
run-in with Dan Kitchen, but maybe down the road I'll take you up on the
offer, John.  B-)

- Original Message - 
From: "John Romero" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 2:16 AM
Subject: RE: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value


> I have an interesting question for you guys
>
> Would you consigder a classic game more valuable if it was signed by
the
> author?
>
> If so, and you'd like your classic Apple II games signed, I might know
> where the author is and could persuade him to sign em. :)
>
> I have a few old Apple II games signed by their authors and I've
gotten
> some nice reactions from them
>
> - john
>
>
> The goal of the works of a genius' existance lies only in itself.
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Dan Chisarick [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 2:51 PM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value
> >
> >
> > I saw what I think was a re-packaged Doriath in the last 2-3
> > months but
> > other than that, zip.  "Black Magic" for the Apple was the
> > first Apple
> > game I bought off ebay.  That was 2+ years ago, and I might have
only
> > seen one since then.  Superb game.  Does not take long to
> > beat.  Tower
> > of Myraglen has a puzzle where you can only enter a certain passage
> > (rather early in the game too) at midnight.  And that's
> > midnight on the
> > computer's system clock :)  The first day I played it it
> > happened to be
> > near midnight, and I walked right in.  The next day I couldn't
figure
> > out how to get in.
> >
> >
> > On Jan 6, 2004, at 8:56 PM, Brian the Fist wrote:
> >
> > >> Not to pick nits, but the "true" piece of art is the game code
> > >> itself. The extras -- manual, cloth map, etc. -- are what make it
> > >> collectable, but the art is the entire package, which includes
the
> > >> game.  What good is the manual if you can't play?
> > >
> > > Perhaps I wasn't clear, I meant 'art' in reference to art
> > collecting
> > > mentioned earlier.  Thus I was being quite literal - I collect
'box
> > > art'.
> > >
> > >>> On the other hand, there are some games I have been searching
for
> > >>> for years and have not seen EVER on eBay (or anywhere else),
even
> > >>> once, thus making them even more rare than Akalabeth or Mt.
Drash
> > >>> technically.
> > >>> And
> > >>> when I come across one like this by some rare fluke, I may get
it
> > >>> for as
> > >>> low as $10 (maybe no one else wants it, who knows).
> > >>
> > >> Like what, out of curiousity?
> > >
> > > One that immediately comes to mind is Destiny by Software
> > Investments
> > > Plus.  Doriath was also incredibly difficult to find (an
> > excellent C64
> > > game if you've never tried it).  Got both cheap, but not
> > until several
> > > YEARS of searching eBay weekly.  Also Tower of Myraglen and
> > trolls and
> > > Tribulations.  Another C64 title, Spirit of the Stones, and
> > Savage by
> > > Rainbird/Microplay/Probe were also cheap but hard to find
> > (not as hard
> > > as the others though).  Also Talisman by Polarware.  Might
> > and Magic I
> > > pre-box version (was just sold as a huge manual with map
> > and disks).
> > > While I may have seen

Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Stephane Racle]

I looked and unfortunately my only duplicate is Masquerade. Just a
couple of notes: Fraktured Faebles was never actually released by
Phoenix - it came after the sale to American Eagle. And the deal for
the second Japanese game never happened...

I have some scans of Phoenix stuff at www3.sympatico.ca/sracle if you
haven't seen them.

C.E. Forman wrote:

  
  
  
  I have:
   
  Adventure in Time
Masquerade
Sherwood Forest (U.S. and large-folder Japanese release)
   
  Still need:
   
  Birth of the Phoenix
Fraktured Faebles
Queen of Phobos
One other game that was done in the large-folder Japanese package...
Can't remember which one, though he sent me a copy of the letter he
sent to the Japanese distributor.
  
  
-
Original Message - 
From:
Stephane Racle 
To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent:
Friday, January 09, 2004 8:55 PM
    Subject:
Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value


Yes I did... Do you have a copy too? He used to run auctions fairly
regularly, but I haven't seen or heard anything from him in months. By
the way, which Phoenix games are you missing? I think I have an extra
copy of Masquerade, and perhaps another game, though I'd have to check.

C.E. Forman wrote:

  
  
  Stephane,
   
  You got your BotF from the
former president of Phoenix, didn't you?  I recall he was selling some
stuff awhile back, I got a few pieces from him myself.
   
  
-
Original Message - 
From:
Stephane Racle 
To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent:
Tuesday, January 06, 2004 8:34 PM
    Subject:
Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value


Well, for one thing, some of the games (or variations) you mention
below were produced in extremely small quantities, and I doubt that
many copies survive to this day, except perhaps with the author or
publisher - and even then, not in all cases. Furthermore, not many
people know or care about them... If I recall, the sales figures for
the "rare" Akalabeth were in the tens of thousands, and similarly even
the rarest Infocoms sold many thousand copies (except perhaps for the
TRS-80 release of Zork for which I recall hearing that something like
1500 copies were sold - still, that's over a thousand). Contrast that
to perhaps 150-200 copies for Birth of the Phoenix (and that might be
pushing it!). As far as numbers, it's a lot rarer than Akalabeth. No
doubt someone has a copy stashed somewhere, but that doesn't mean it'll
show up on eBay (incidentally, I have a copy of that one stashed very
close by... :-) Of your list, besides BotP, I have also seen a few of
the early Synergistic releases. Interestingly enough, I have a manual
for "Odyssey: The Compleat Apventure", but no diskette... I have never
seen one.

Brian the Fist wrote:

  Incidentally, here's a few games I have never once seen (other than
perhaps a loose disk) on eBay, in several years of searching - no idea
why - Labyrinth of Crete (Scott Adams), Birth of the Phoenix, Black
Magic (Datasoft, US Boxed version), Coveted Mirror (Comprehend version),
Crypts of Terror (In-Home software, saw loose disk once..), Dungeons
Dragons and Other perils (XLent software), Fraktured Faebles (American
Eagle), Gelfling Adventure (Sierra), Palace in Thunderland (Micro Lab),
Quarterstaff (Simulated Environment Systems, before Infocom bought it),
Secret of Easter Island (Three Sigma), Seventh Sword of Mendor
(Grandslam), Sorcerer of Siva (Epyx), most Synergistic Software early
games, Spirit of Glenmore Castle (On Target), Troll's Tale (Sierra),
Zombies (Bram).  And my personal holy grail of hard to find games,
Dungeons of Despair (Wizardry Zero??).  There are very few references to
this latter one, though it is on the Giant Game Programmers list, and
from what I can scrounge, this may have been a Wizardry I beta demo,
released to the Apple user group community as the game was being made? 
Anyone know any more on this one?  and as for the other games listed
here, have any of you ever seen any of them, ever, anywhere?  Maybe I've
just had bad luck?  I suppose some of these, might not exist though I
know most do.  Anyhow, these all appear to be rarer than Akalabeth and
friends.  Oh yes, there's also the Dysan 3 1/2" Infocoms, and DEC
Rainbow ones...

  
One that immediately comes to mind is Destiny by Software Investments

  

  

Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[C.E. Forman]

I have:
 
Adventure in TimeMasqueradeSherwood Forest 
(U.S. and large-folder Japanese release)
 
Still need:
 
Birth of the PhoenixFraktured FaeblesQueen 
of PhobosOne other game that was done in the large-folder Japanese 
package... Can't remember which one, though he sent me a copy of the letter he 
sent to the Japanese distributor.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Stephane Racle 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 8:55 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash 
  cassette and market value
  Yes I did... Do you have a copy too? He used to run auctions 
  fairly regularly, but I haven't seen or heard anything from him in months. By 
  the way, which Phoenix games are you missing? I think I have an extra copy of 
  Masquerade, and perhaps another game, though I'd have to check.C.E. 
  Forman wrote:
  


Stephane,
 
You got your BotF from the former president of 
Phoenix, didn't you?  I recall he was selling some stuff awhile back, I 
got a few pieces from him myself.
 

  - 
  Original Message - 
  From: 
  Stephane Racle 
  To: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: 
  Tuesday, January 06, 2004 8:34 PM
      Subject: 
      Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value
  Well, for one thing, some of the games (or variations) you 
  mention below were produced in extremely small quantities, and I doubt 
  that many copies survive to this day, except perhaps with the author or 
  publisher - and even then, not in all cases. Furthermore, not many people 
  know or care about them... If I recall, the sales figures for the "rare" 
  Akalabeth were in the tens of thousands, and similarly even the rarest 
  Infocoms sold many thousand copies (except perhaps for the TRS-80 release 
  of Zork for which I recall hearing that something like 1500 copies were 
  sold - still, that's over a thousand). Contrast that to perhaps 150-200 
  copies for Birth of the Phoenix (and that might be pushing it!). As far as 
  numbers, it's a lot rarer than Akalabeth. No doubt someone has a copy 
  stashed somewhere, but that doesn't mean it'll show up on eBay 
  (incidentally, I have a copy of that one stashed very close by... :-) Of 
  your list, besides BotP, I have also seen a few of the early Synergistic 
  releases. Interestingly enough, I have a manual for "Odyssey: The Compleat 
  Apventure", but no diskette... I have never seen one.Brian the 
  Fist wrote:
  Incidentally, here's a few games I have never once seen (other than
perhaps a loose disk) on eBay, in several years of searching - no idea
why - Labyrinth of Crete (Scott Adams), Birth of the Phoenix, Black
Magic (Datasoft, US Boxed version), Coveted Mirror (Comprehend version),
Crypts of Terror (In-Home software, saw loose disk once..), Dungeons
Dragons and Other perils (XLent software), Fraktured Faebles (American
Eagle), Gelfling Adventure (Sierra), Palace in Thunderland (Micro Lab),
Quarterstaff (Simulated Environment Systems, before Infocom bought it),
Secret of Easter Island (Three Sigma), Seventh Sword of Mendor
(Grandslam), Sorcerer of Siva (Epyx), most Synergistic Software early
games, Spirit of Glenmore Castle (On Target), Troll's Tale (Sierra),
Zombies (Bram).  And my personal holy grail of hard to find games,
Dungeons of Despair (Wizardry Zero??).  There are very few references to
this latter one, though it is on the Giant Game Programmers list, and
from what I can scrounge, this may have been a Wizardry I beta demo,
released to the Apple user group community as the game was being made? 
Anyone know any more on this one?  and as for the other games listed
here, have any of you ever seen any of them, ever, anywhere?  Maybe I've
just had bad luck?  I suppose some of these, might not exist though I
know most do.  Anyhow, these all appear to be rarer than Akalabeth and
friends.  Oh yes, there's also the Dysan 3 1/2" Infocoms, and DEC
Rainbow ones...

  One that immediately comes to mind is Destiny by Software 
Investments

Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Stephane Racle]

Funny you mention that. It actually is a three-pack of Infocomics,
although as I recall, it's three individual Infocomics shrinkwrapped in
one package. Probably a store job... but you never know. Perhaps
Infocom/Activision did package them like that to get rid of excess
inventory? I don't recall anything unique about the packaging
suggesting this, but then again, I don't think I looked very closely. I
can try and dig them out... and see if we can come to a better
conclusion. And you know what, unless I'm mistaken, I have two of these
three-packs (the guy was desperate to get rid of his Apple II items). 

C.E. Forman wrote:

  
  
  
  
  Just to clarify, Stephane...  Did
you find three individual Infocomics being sold together?  Or did you
find a literal three-pack of Infocomics (with some kind of unique outer
packaging)?  I always have to be sure if someone sounds like they have
a package I haven't seen before.  B-)
   
  
-
Original Message - 
From:
Stephane Racle 
To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent:
Wednesday, January 07, 2004 7:30 PM
    Subject:
Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value


I agree with you on actual vs perceived value. Actually, until last
year, I didn't particularly care for Infocomics, which I perceived as
relatively uninteresting computer comic book experiments. Only after
finding a three-pack of them as part of a larger bundle of software did
I decide I should try to get the last one. On the other hand, Suspended
and Starcross were no brainers... and I suspect they are on many
software collectors' lists.

Marco Thorek wrote:

  Stephane Racle schrieb:
  
  
One package I had never seen on eBay until tonight was Zorkquest II.
I've seen all the other Infocomics about a hundred times, but never that
one. Is it that uncommon? One would think they'd be plenty of copies
lying around...

  
  
It indeed is that uncommon. Much more so than a Starcross saucer,
Suspended mask or sealed Fooblitzky. I have been on ebay now for five
years and only saw it once and that one was even sealed. 

I managed to win that auction for a mere $50, as there was only one
other serious bidder. And the current auction you probably talked about
ended with $19.99 via "Buy it now." On the other hand I was outbid
several times on a number of Fooblitzkys, which do turn up every other
month.

Maybe we have to differentiate between actual value, which considers
factors such as rarity and item condition, and perceived value.

Looking through ebay's completed auctions I just saw a Deadline grey go
for $76... 

Marco

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Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Stephane Racle]

Yes I did... Do you have a copy too? He used to run auctions fairly
regularly, but I haven't seen or heard anything from him in months. By
the way, which Phoenix games are you missing? I think I have an extra
copy of Masquerade, and perhaps another game, though I'd have to check.

C.E. Forman wrote:

  
  
  
  
  Stephane,
   
  You got your BotF from the former
president of Phoenix, didn't you?  I recall he was selling some stuff
awhile back, I got a few pieces from him myself.
   
  
-
Original Message - 
From:
Stephane Racle 
To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent:
Tuesday, January 06, 2004 8:34 PM
    Subject:
Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value


Well, for one thing, some of the games (or variations) you mention
below were produced in extremely small quantities, and I doubt that
many copies survive to this day, except perhaps with the author or
publisher - and even then, not in all cases. Furthermore, not many
people know or care about them... If I recall, the sales figures for
the "rare" Akalabeth were in the tens of thousands, and similarly even
the rarest Infocoms sold many thousand copies (except perhaps for the
TRS-80 release of Zork for which I recall hearing that something like
1500 copies were sold - still, that's over a thousand). Contrast that
to perhaps 150-200 copies for Birth of the Phoenix (and that might be
pushing it!). As far as numbers, it's a lot rarer than Akalabeth. No
doubt someone has a copy stashed somewhere, but that doesn't mean it'll
show up on eBay (incidentally, I have a copy of that one stashed very
close by... :-) Of your list, besides BotP, I have also seen a few of
the early Synergistic releases. Interestingly enough, I have a manual
for "Odyssey: The Compleat Apventure", but no diskette... I have never
seen one.

Brian the Fist wrote:

  Incidentally, here's a few games I have never once seen (other than
perhaps a loose disk) on eBay, in several years of searching - no idea
why - Labyrinth of Crete (Scott Adams), Birth of the Phoenix, Black
Magic (Datasoft, US Boxed version), Coveted Mirror (Comprehend version),
Crypts of Terror (In-Home software, saw loose disk once..), Dungeons
Dragons and Other perils (XLent software), Fraktured Faebles (American
Eagle), Gelfling Adventure (Sierra), Palace in Thunderland (Micro Lab),
Quarterstaff (Simulated Environment Systems, before Infocom bought it),
Secret of Easter Island (Three Sigma), Seventh Sword of Mendor
(Grandslam), Sorcerer of Siva (Epyx), most Synergistic Software early
games, Spirit of Glenmore Castle (On Target), Troll's Tale (Sierra),
Zombies (Bram).  And my personal holy grail of hard to find games,
Dungeons of Despair (Wizardry Zero??).  There are very few references to
this latter one, though it is on the Giant Game Programmers list, and
from what I can scrounge, this may have been a Wizardry I beta demo,
released to the Apple user group community as the game was being made? 
Anyone know any more on this one?  and as for the other games listed
here, have any of you ever seen any of them, ever, anywhere?  Maybe I've
just had bad luck?  I suppose some of these, might not exist though I
know most do.  Anyhow, these all appear to be rarer than Akalabeth and
friends.  Oh yes, there's also the Dysan 3 1/2" Infocoms, and DEC
Rainbow ones...

  
One that immediately comes to mind is Destiny by Software Investments

  

Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[C.E. Forman]

I hear he doesn't have a lot of patience with 
people talking about Drash, though.  He's done a number of other games 
since then and apparently dislikes the fact that everyone only seems to care 
about the one crappy game he did two decades ago.
 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 2:45 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash 
  cassette and market value
  In a message dated 01/09/2004 11:36:34 AM Central 
  Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  Ah, but who would sign it?  Richard Garriott, who had 
NOTHING to do with Drash, or the person/people involved in *actually* 
creating Drash?Keith Zabaloui (sp) of course, he's 
  still around :)TomVisit my web page for many games for sale/trade 
  and screen shots of Ultima Escape from Mt. Drash,  Tom's Ultima, 
  Infocom and RPG page 

Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[C.E. Forman]

I recall someone saying the seller admitted to shilling on this auction.
Can't find the original post, though.

- Original Message - 
From: "Stephane Racle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 2:21 PM
Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value


> I still remember that $2000 Starcross saucer very well! Although IMO,
> someone drove up the price on that one... although if I recall, the
> buyer was more than happy with the result.
>
> Edward Franks wrote:
>
> >
> >>   I believe that most collectors have somewhat limited
> >> cash flow, and so I have never seen any single game sell for over $1000
> >> that I can recall, and I don't know if it ever would.
> >
> >
> > I've seen stuff hit the $2,000 mark.
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to
> the swcollect mailing list.  To unsubscribe, send mail to
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect'
> Archives are available at:
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>


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Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[C.E. Forman]

> That reminds me, I have the Zork 1 poster from the Zork Users Group.  
> 
> Say, was that the only poster they made?  I have some vague memory of 
> a Zork 2 poster mentioned.

There was a Zork II, it was in B&W.


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Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[C.E. Forman]

I've got a number of signed items, from authors I've tracked down on my own,
and I consider them more valuable than an unsigned package in similar
condition.  Right now I'm still letting the wounds heal after my disastrous
run-in with Dan Kitchen, but maybe down the road I'll take you up on the
offer, John.  B-)

- Original Message - 
From: "John Romero" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 2:16 AM
Subject: RE: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value


> I have an interesting question for you guys
>
> Would you consigder a classic game more valuable if it was signed by the
> author?
>
> If so, and you'd like your classic Apple II games signed, I might know
> where the author is and could persuade him to sign em. :)
>
> I have a few old Apple II games signed by their authors and I've gotten
> some nice reactions from them
>
> - john
>
>
> The goal of the works of a genius' existance lies only in itself.
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Dan Chisarick [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 2:51 PM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value
> >
> >
> > I saw what I think was a re-packaged Doriath in the last 2-3
> > months but
> > other than that, zip.  "Black Magic" for the Apple was the
> > first Apple
> > game I bought off ebay.  That was 2+ years ago, and I might have only
> > seen one since then.  Superb game.  Does not take long to
> > beat.  Tower
> > of Myraglen has a puzzle where you can only enter a certain passage
> > (rather early in the game too) at midnight.  And that's
> > midnight on the
> > computer's system clock :)  The first day I played it it
> > happened to be
> > near midnight, and I walked right in.  The next day I couldn't figure
> > out how to get in.
> >
> >
> > On Jan 6, 2004, at 8:56 PM, Brian the Fist wrote:
> >
> > >> Not to pick nits, but the "true" piece of art is the game code
> > >> itself. The extras -- manual, cloth map, etc. -- are what make it
> > >> collectable, but the art is the entire package, which includes the
> > >> game.  What good is the manual if you can't play?
> > >
> > > Perhaps I wasn't clear, I meant 'art' in reference to art
> > collecting
> > > mentioned earlier.  Thus I was being quite literal - I collect 'box
> > > art'.
> > >
> > >>> On the other hand, there are some games I have been searching for
> > >>> for years and have not seen EVER on eBay (or anywhere else), even
> > >>> once, thus making them even more rare than Akalabeth or Mt. Drash
> > >>> technically.
> > >>> And
> > >>> when I come across one like this by some rare fluke, I may get it
> > >>> for as
> > >>> low as $10 (maybe no one else wants it, who knows).
> > >>
> > >> Like what, out of curiousity?
> > >
> > > One that immediately comes to mind is Destiny by Software
> > Investments
> > > Plus.  Doriath was also incredibly difficult to find (an
> > excellent C64
> > > game if you've never tried it).  Got both cheap, but not
> > until several
> > > YEARS of searching eBay weekly.  Also Tower of Myraglen and
> > trolls and
> > > Tribulations.  Another C64 title, Spirit of the Stones, and
> > Savage by
> > > Rainbird/Microplay/Probe were also cheap but hard to find
> > (not as hard
> > > as the others though).  Also Talisman by Polarware.  Might
> > and Magic I
> > > pre-box version (was just sold as a huge manual with map
> > and disks).
> > > While I may have seen an odd loose disk for one or two of these, I
> > > rarely saw one appear complete and as soon as I did, I
> > grabbed it and
> > > no one else seemed to want them
> > >
> > > Incidentally, here's a few games I have never once seen (other than
> > > perhaps a loose disk) on eBay, in several years of
> > searching - no idea
> > > why - Labyrinth of Crete (Scott Adams), Birth of the Phoenix, Black
> > > Magic (Datasoft, US Boxed version), Coveted Mirror (Comprehend
> > > version), Crypts of Terror (In-Home software, saw loose
> > disk once..),
> > > Dungeons Dragons and Other perils (XLent software),
> > Fraktured Faebles
> > > (American Eagle), Gelfling Adventure (Si

Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[C.E. Forman]

Technically they are not "re-issues" either.  
They were the first Infocom releses for C64.  Commodore insisted on 
doing their own packaging up until Cutthroats, then they wised up and realized 
Infocom's boxes were better.  Infocom re-released the C64 titles in the 
standard greys after that.
 
- Original Message - 

  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 9:35 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash 
  cassette and market value
  
  Those are neither folio nor grey.  What you have are the Commodore 
  re-issues of Infocom games.  Unfortunately these are probably the most 
  commonly available shrink-wrapped Infocom's you can find :-(
   
  Hugh-Original Message- From: Stefan Lindblom 
  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Sent: Jan 7, 2004 5:46 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: 
  Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value 
  
  
  
  My mistake, I meant I take these are the folio 
  ones. I should probably go and sleep now before I get a label of stupidity 
  here :)
   
  /Stefan
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Stefan Lindblom 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 2:42 
AM
    Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash 
    cassette and market value

I thought I recalled having seen one of these 
mentioned, although I dont know which one. I picked up a bunch of games half 
a year ago, and among them were the C-64 version of Deadline. I am a bit 
noob though since I cant tell whether or not this is a folio or "grey". It 
is flat, like a fold out thing. Sounds like a folio, right? On the front it 
is blue at the top, white in the middle with the Deadline documentary 
evidence picture, and grey/silver with the Commodore logo at the bottom. The 
whole backside is the same grey/silver color as the front bottom. I also 
found suspended with the pretty much identical flat box. Both are sealed so 
I cant check any further. I take it these are the grey ones and therefore of 
pretty low interest?
 
/Stefan
 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Stephane Racle 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 2:30 
      AM
  Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash 
  cassette and market value
  Interesting. Perhaps very few copies were published since 
  it was the last of the four Infocomics and the other ones had relatively 
  little success? Yes, I was referring to the $19.99 "Buy It Now". 
  That Deadline grey is interesting I just saw a shrinkwrapped Deadline 
  folio go for $29.99 (although that was a "Buy It Now" as well). Come to 
  think of it though, Deadline folios seem to come up on eBay fairly 
  regularly - and a good number of them are still in the shrink. In fact, I 
  think I've seen more Deadline folios than Deadline greys over the last few 
  years.I agree with you on actual vs perceived value. Actually, 
  until last year, I didn't particularly care for Infocomics, which I 
  perceived as relatively uninteresting computer comic book experiments. 
  Only after finding a three-pack of them as part of a larger bundle of 
  software did I decide I should try to get the last one. On the other hand, 
  Suspended and Starcross were no brainers... and I suspect they are on many 
  software collectors' lists.Marco Thorek wrote:
  Stephane Racle schrieb:
  
One package I had never seen on eBay until tonight was Zorkquest II.
I've seen all the other Infocomics about a hundred times, but never that
one. Is it that uncommon? One would think they'd be plenty of copies
lying around...

It indeed is that uncommon. Much more so than a Starcross saucer,
Suspended mask or sealed Fooblitzky. I have been on ebay now for five
years and only saw it once and that one was even sealed. 

I managed to win that auction for a mere $50, as there was only one
other serious bidder. And the current auction you probably talked about
ended with $19.99 via "Buy it now." On the other hand I was outbid
several times on a number of Fooblitzkys, which do turn up every other
month.

Maybe we have to differentiate between actual value, which considers
factors such as rarity and item condition, and perceived value.

Looking through ebay's completed auctions I just saw a Deadline grey go
for $76... 

Marco

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Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[C.E. Forman]

The Mastertronic series was sold predominatly in 
Europe, where they seem to be very common.  I overpaid for mine because, 
being in the States, I'd never seen them before so I figured they were 
rare.
 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Pedro 
  Quaresma 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 3:15 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash 
  cassette and market value
  Hugh Falk wrote: 
  >Those are neither folio nor grey. 
   What you have are the Commodore re-issues of Infocom games. 
   Unfortunately these are probably the most >commonly available 
  shrink-wrapped Infocom's you can find :-( Don't forget the "Infocom from Mastertronic" 
  series, which are, from my experience, even more common. --Pedro R. QuaresmaSalvador Caetano 
  IMVTDiv. Sistemas de Informação / Systems and Information 
  DivisionAdministração e Desenvolvimento Lotus Notes / Lotus Notes 
  Administration and Development[EMAIL PROTECTED] // +351 22 
  7867000 (ext. 3492)Toyota Prius '01, Aqua Ice Opalescent, 37K km., 
  "Esperanza"ToyotaShopping - A sua Loja Toyota 
  Onlinehttp://www.toyota.pt

Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[C.E. Forman]

Just to clarify, Stephane...  Did you find 
three individual Infocomics being sold together?  Or did you find a literal 
three-pack of Infocomics (with some kind of unique outer packaging)?  I 
always have to be sure if someone sounds like they have a package I haven't seen 
before.  B-)
 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Stephane Racle 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 7:30 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash 
  cassette and market value
  I agree with you on actual vs perceived value. Actually, until 
  last year, I didn't particularly care for Infocomics, which I perceived as 
  relatively uninteresting computer comic book experiments. Only after finding a 
  three-pack of them as part of a larger bundle of software did I decide I 
  should try to get the last one. On the other hand, Suspended and Starcross 
  were no brainers... and I suspect they are on many software collectors' 
  lists.Marco Thorek wrote:
  Stephane Racle schrieb:
  
One package I had never seen on eBay until tonight was Zorkquest II.
I've seen all the other Infocomics about a hundred times, but never that
one. Is it that uncommon? One would think they'd be plenty of copies
lying around...

It indeed is that uncommon. Much more so than a Starcross saucer,
Suspended mask or sealed Fooblitzky. I have been on ebay now for five
years and only saw it once and that one was even sealed. 

I managed to win that auction for a mere $50, as there was only one
other serious bidder. And the current auction you probably talked about
ended with $19.99 via "Buy it now." On the other hand I was outbid
several times on a number of Fooblitzkys, which do turn up every other
month.

Maybe we have to differentiate between actual value, which considers
factors such as rarity and item condition, and perceived value.

Looking through ebay's completed auctions I just saw a Deadline grey go
for $76... 

Marco

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Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[C.E. Forman]

> It indeed is that uncommon. Much more so than a Starcross saucer,
> Suspended mask or sealed Fooblitzky. I have been on ebay now for five
> years and only saw it once and that one was even sealed.

Hmm, I've had 3 or 4 of these (ZorkQuest II) come through the Shoppe over
the years, but I can't say the same about saucers.  I know it was released
about a year after the first three, in smaller quantities, just to recoup
the production costs, and it took me awhile to find mine, but I had it well
before I had my saucer and mask.  So I'm not sure I agree, just based on
personal experience.  Definitely rarer than Fooblitzky, though.

> Looking through ebay's completed auctions I just saw a Deadline grey go
> for $76...

Some guy on Amazon had some greys for $99.95, not sure if people are buying
though...


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Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[C.E. Forman]

Stephane,
 
You got your BotF from the former president of 
Phoenix, didn't you?  I recall he was selling some stuff awhile back, I got 
a few pieces from him myself.
 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Stephane Racle 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 8:34 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash 
  cassette and market value
  Well, for one thing, some of the games (or variations) you 
  mention below were produced in extremely small quantities, and I doubt that 
  many copies survive to this day, except perhaps with the author or publisher - 
  and even then, not in all cases. Furthermore, not many people know or care 
  about them... If I recall, the sales figures for the "rare" Akalabeth were in 
  the tens of thousands, and similarly even the rarest Infocoms sold many 
  thousand copies (except perhaps for the TRS-80 release of Zork for which I 
  recall hearing that something like 1500 copies were sold - still, that's over 
  a thousand). Contrast that to perhaps 150-200 copies for Birth of the Phoenix 
  (and that might be pushing it!). As far as numbers, it's a lot rarer than 
  Akalabeth. No doubt someone has a copy stashed somewhere, but that doesn't 
  mean it'll show up on eBay (incidentally, I have a copy of that one stashed 
  very close by... :-) Of your list, besides BotP, I have also seen a few of the 
  early Synergistic releases. Interestingly enough, I have a manual for 
  "Odyssey: The Compleat Apventure", but no diskette... I have never seen 
  one.Brian the Fist wrote:
  Incidentally, here's a few games I have never once seen (other than
perhaps a loose disk) on eBay, in several years of searching - no idea
why - Labyrinth of Crete (Scott Adams), Birth of the Phoenix, Black
Magic (Datasoft, US Boxed version), Coveted Mirror (Comprehend version),
Crypts of Terror (In-Home software, saw loose disk once..), Dungeons
Dragons and Other perils (XLent software), Fraktured Faebles (American
Eagle), Gelfling Adventure (Sierra), Palace in Thunderland (Micro Lab),
Quarterstaff (Simulated Environment Systems, before Infocom bought it),
Secret of Easter Island (Three Sigma), Seventh Sword of Mendor
(Grandslam), Sorcerer of Siva (Epyx), most Synergistic Software early
games, Spirit of Glenmore Castle (On Target), Troll's Tale (Sierra),
Zombies (Bram).  And my personal holy grail of hard to find games,
Dungeons of Despair (Wizardry Zero??).  There are very few references to
this latter one, though it is on the Giant Game Programmers list, and
from what I can scrounge, this may have been a Wizardry I beta demo,
released to the Apple user group community as the game was being made? 
Anyone know any more on this one?  and as for the other games listed
here, have any of you ever seen any of them, ever, anywhere?  Maybe I've
just had bad luck?  I suppose some of these, might not exist though I
know most do.  Anyhow, these all appear to be rarer than Akalabeth and
friends.  Oh yes, there's also the Dysan 3 1/2" Infocoms, and DEC
Rainbow ones...

  One that immediately comes to mind is Destiny by Software 
Investments

Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[AvatarTom]

In a message dated 01/09/2004 11:36:34 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


Ah, but who would sign it?  Richard Garriott, who had NOTHING to do with 
Drash, or the person/people involved in *actually* creating Drash?


Keith Zabaloui (sp) of course, he's still around :)

Tom
Visit my web page for many games for sale/trade and screen shots of Ultima Escape from Mt. Drash,  Tom's Ultima, Infocom and RPG page 

Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Jim Leonard]

Pedro Quaresma wrote:

other Syn. Soft. games. If anyone's interested, I can share some 
stories/facts about those days in Syn. Soft.
Hell yes, if it's not too much trouble!
--
Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
World's largest electronic gaming project:http://www.MobyGames.com/
A delicious slice of the demoscene:http://www.MindCandyDVD.com/
Various oldskool PC rants and ramblings:   http://www.oldskool.org/
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Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Jim Leonard]

Dan Chisarick wrote:

While Mt. Drash itself could probably be considered 'exotic', a signed 
copy would probably be 'unique', especially if it was personalized.  The 
best of both worlds is to have a spare copy.
Ah, but who would sign it?  Richard Garriott, who had NOTHING to do with 
Drash, or the person/people involved in *actually* creating Drash?

Moebius (Greg Malone)
I loved this game; never finished it but should give it another try.  I 
couldn't get into Windwalker, even though lead programmer told me a 
while ago it was a much superior game.
--
Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
World's largest electronic gaming project:http://www.MobyGames.com/
A delicious slice of the demoscene:http://www.MindCandyDVD.com/
Various oldskool PC rants and ramblings:   http://www.oldskool.org/

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Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Pedro Quaresma]

Speaking of Synergistic Software, I recently had the chance to exchange emails with Robert Nendel, lead programmer for "Warriors of Legend" and other Syn. Soft. games. If anyone's interested, I can share some stories/facts about those days in Syn. Soft.

--
Pedro R. Quaresma
Salvador Caetano IMVT
Div. Sistemas de Informação / Systems and Information Division
Administração e Desenvolvimento Lotus Notes / 
Lotus Notes Administration and Development
[EMAIL PROTECTED] // +351 22 7867000 (ext. 3492)

Toyota Prius '01, Aqua Ice Opalescent, 37K km., "Esperanza"
 










                     

        
Para: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
A/C: 
Ref: 
cc: 
Assunto: Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value


Stephane Racle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
08-01-2004 23:12


Solicita-se resposta a swcollect


This is what mine looks like... There must have been a few variations.

Edward Franks wrote:

>
> On Jan 8, 2004, at 2:58 PM, Stephane Racle wrote:
>
>> I also noticed just a couple of days ago that my Odyssey manual was 
>> actually very different from his. Mine is essentially black and 
>> white, almost newspaperish, while his has a full colour cover. I 
>> wonder if your disk goes with the one I have? Or do you have the same 
>> book as Howard too?
>
>
>     I have the version as Howard.
>

 




ToyotaShopping - A sua Loja Toyota Online
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Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Dan Chisarick]

Absolutely.  I try to keep everything as immaculate as possible 
(unpunched, uncut, unfolded, no stains on the disk label or manual, you 
get the idea) but still play the game (bye-bye shrinkwrap).  For 
collecting purposes I'd consider a signed copy as a "variant".  Its an 
original issue item with some limited-edition or hard-to-come-by extra. 
 The one quirk of that analogy is that the quantity of those items in 
existence can increase at any time so long as the author is still 
alive.  There will never be more than (I think CE or someone said 
5,000)  pins in the first few copies of Battletech, more Ultima cloth 
maps, etc.  Though Microscopic Space Fleets seem to be in high 
availability...

While Mt. Drash itself could probably be considered 'exotic', a signed 
copy would probably be 'unique', especially if it was personalized.  
The best of both worlds is to have a spare copy.

That said, is that offer for "Wasteland" many moons back still good?  
Anyway, these all come to mind as titles I've lost entire weeks on:

Moebius (Greg Malone)
Castle Wolfenstien (Silas Warner)
Legacy of the Ancients (John or Chuck Dougherty)
Sword of Kadash (Chris Cole)


On Jan 8, 2004, at 3:16 AM, John Romero wrote:

I have an interesting question for you guys

Would you consigder a classic game more valuable if it was signed by 
the
author?

If so, and you'd like your classic Apple II games signed, I might know
where the author is and could persuade him to sign em. :)
I have a few old Apple II games signed by their authors and I've gotten
some nice reactions from them
- john

The goal of the works of a genius' existance lies only in itself.


-Original Message-
From: Dan Chisarick [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 2:51 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value
I saw what I think was a re-packaged Doriath in the last 2-3
months but
other than that, zip.  "Black Magic" for the Apple was the
first Apple
game I bought off ebay.  That was 2+ years ago, and I might have only
seen one since then.  Superb game.  Does not take long to
beat.  Tower
of Myraglen has a puzzle where you can only enter a certain passage
(rather early in the game too) at midnight.  And that's
midnight on the
computer's system clock :)  The first day I played it it
happened to be
near midnight, and I walked right in.  The next day I couldn't figure
out how to get in.
On Jan 6, 2004, at 8:56 PM, Brian the Fist wrote:

Not to pick nits, but the "true" piece of art is the game code
itself. The extras -- manual, cloth map, etc. -- are what make it
collectable, but the art is the entire package, which includes the
game.  What good is the manual if you can't play?
Perhaps I wasn't clear, I meant 'art' in reference to art
collecting
mentioned earlier.  Thus I was being quite literal - I collect 'box
art'.
On the other hand, there are some games I have been searching for
for years and have not seen EVER on eBay (or anywhere else), even
once, thus making them even more rare than Akalabeth or Mt. Drash
technically.
And
when I come across one like this by some rare fluke, I may get it
for as
low as $10 (maybe no one else wants it, who knows).
Like what, out of curiousity?
One that immediately comes to mind is Destiny by Software
Investments
Plus.  Doriath was also incredibly difficult to find (an
excellent C64
game if you've never tried it).  Got both cheap, but not
until several
YEARS of searching eBay weekly.  Also Tower of Myraglen and
trolls and
Tribulations.  Another C64 title, Spirit of the Stones, and
Savage by
Rainbird/Microplay/Probe were also cheap but hard to find
(not as hard
as the others though).  Also Talisman by Polarware.  Might
and Magic I
pre-box version (was just sold as a huge manual with map
and disks).
While I may have seen an odd loose disk for one or two of these, I
rarely saw one appear complete and as soon as I did, I
grabbed it and
no one else seemed to want them

Incidentally, here's a few games I have never once seen (other than
perhaps a loose disk) on eBay, in several years of
searching - no idea
why - Labyrinth of Crete (Scott Adams), Birth of the Phoenix, Black
Magic (Datasoft, US Boxed version), Coveted Mirror (Comprehend
version), Crypts of Terror (In-Home software, saw loose
disk once..),
Dungeons Dragons and Other perils (XLent software),
Fraktured Faebles
(American Eagle), Gelfling Adventure (Sierra), Palace in
Thunderland
(Micro Lab), Quarterstaff (Simulated Environment Systems, before
Infocom bought it), Secret of Easter Island (Three Sigma), Seventh
Sword of Mendor (Grandslam), Sorcerer of Siva (Epyx), most
Synergistic
Software early games, Spirit of Glenmore Castle (On
Target), Troll's
Tale (Sierra), Zombies (Bram).  And my personal holy grail
of hard to
find games, Dungeons of Despair (Wizardr

Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Edward Franks]

On Jan 8, 2004, at 5:12 PM, Stephane Racle wrote:

This is what mine looks like... There must have been a few variations.
	Given the do-it-in-your-Mom's-kitchen standards of the day I would 
suspect your copy is one of the first editions.  Anyone know for sure?

--

Edward Franks

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Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Marco Thorek]

> Stephane Racle schrieb:
> 
> Interesting. Perhaps very few copies were published since it was the
> last of the four Infocomics and the other ones had relatively little
> success?

Yup. The Infocomics weren't exactly successful, so production was
stopped after they'd rolled out comparatively small numbers of ZQ2.

Marco

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Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Marco Thorek]

Stephane Racle schrieb:
> 
> I still remember that $2000 Starcross saucer very well! Although IMO,
> someone drove up the price on that one... although if I recall, the
> buyer was more than happy with the result.

Oh yes, I remember that one, too. It was sealed, wasn't it? 

Still, $2000 is way more than I'd have been willing to shell out for it.

Marco

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Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Marco Thorek]

Edward Franks schrieb:
> 
> That reminds me of the old economic chestnut:  While not everything
> scarce is valuable, everything valuable is scarce.

Had never heard that one. Very neat! :-)

Marco

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Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Edward Franks]

On Jan 8, 2004, at 2:58 PM, Stephane Racle wrote:

I also noticed just a couple of days ago that my Odyssey manual was 
actually very different from his. Mine is essentially black and white, 
almost newspaperish, while his has a full colour cover. I wonder if 
your disk goes with the one I have? Or do you have the same book as 
Howard too?
	I have the version as Howard.

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Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Stephane Racle]

I also noticed just a couple of days ago that my Odyssey manual was 
actually very different from his. Mine is essentially black and white, 
almost newspaperish, while his has a full colour cover. I wonder if your 
disk goes with the one I have? Or do you have the same book as Howard too?

Edward Franks wrote:

On Jan 6, 2004, at 8:41 PM, Brian the Fist wrote:

few of the early Synergistic releases. Interestingly enough, I have a
manual for "Odyssey: The Compleat Apventure", but no diskette... I
have never seen one.


http://deep.mshri.on.ca/people/feldman/vgmuseum/miscgame/ 
odysseycompleat-disk.jpg


Interesting.  My copy has a different label.  It has the logo (the 
SS  and the words Synergestic Software) from here  
 only it is black letters on White.  Above  
the logo it just says ODYSSEY: The Compleat Apventure.



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Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Edward Franks]

On Jan 6, 2004, at 8:41 PM, Brian the Fist wrote:

few of the early Synergistic releases. Interestingly enough, I have a
manual for "Odyssey: The Compleat Apventure", but no diskette... I
have never seen one.
http://deep.mshri.on.ca/people/feldman/vgmuseum/miscgame/ 
odysseycompleat-disk.jpg
	Interesting.  My copy has a different label.  It has the logo (the SS  
and the words Synergestic Software) from here  
 only it is black letters on White.  Above  
the logo it just says ODYSSEY: The Compleat Apventure.

--

Edward Franks

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Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Stephane Racle]

I still remember that $2000 Starcross saucer very well! Although IMO, 
someone drove up the price on that one... although if I recall, the 
buyer was more than happy with the result.

Edward Franks wrote:


  I believe that most collectors have somewhat limited
cash flow, and so I have never seen any single game sell for over $1000
that I can recall, and I don't know if it ever would.


I've seen stuff hit the $2,000 mark.




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Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Edward Franks]

On Jan 6, 2004, at 1:41 AM, Jim Leonard wrote:
[Snip]
I agree with you about demand.  I've said it before, so forgive the 
repeat, but I have in my possession several pieces of software that 
are arguably rarer than Akalabeth simply because I know some of their 
history and have never seen them crop up anywhere else -- but because 
nobody WANTS them, they have no VALUE.  So, rare != value.  At least 
in my wacko collection :)
	That reminds me of the old economic chestnut:  While not everything 
scarce is valuable, everything valuable is scarce.

--

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Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Edward Franks]

On Jan 5, 2004, at 8:23 PM, C.E. Forman wrote:

Here's what Brian told me when I asked:
 
There was no map. It was a cheap-looking 5 1/2 x 11 folded booklet, 
printed
by some "instant press" outfit, with a typewriter typeface on maybe 12 
white
pages, and a light blue cover. It bears the original Faneuil Hall 
company address.
Probably less than 50 were ever sold.
The "map" he mentions refers to a large fold-out map I'd seen in a 
German collector's stash, which I've never seen since.  I had assumed 
this was from the original version of Zork but I guess not, so there's 
another early version of some sort.  I remember the map was 
professional quality, not some self-done job.  We took it to a print 
shop and made me a full-size Xerox of it, I just have to find the darn 
thing.
	That reminds me, I have the Zork 1 poster from the Zork Users Group.  
I need to get a copy made so that I can hang in on my wall.  I even had 
one guy offer me a shrinkwrapped Fooblitzsky for a copy of the poster.  
I didn't know the guy (can't remember who it was) and I was worried 
about more 'posters' appearing on eBay if I made a copy so I politely 
demurred.

	Say, was that the only poster they made?  I have some vague memory of 
a Zork 2 poster mentioned.

--

Edward Franks



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Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Edward Franks]

On Jan 5, 2004, at 8:25 PM, C.E. Forman wrote:

Aagh.  Classic mistake.  Searching on "Drash" but not Ultima for the 
VIC.
I'm modifying my automated searches right now.
	Don't feel bad.  I've been doing the same mistake for years!

--

Edward Franks

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Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Edward Franks]

On Jan 5, 2004, at 8:09 PM, Brian the Fist wrote:
[Snip]
The value is an interesting issue though, which I have pondered
endlessly recently.  When it boils down to it, a rare game is worth
whatever someone is willing to pay for it, its that simple.  I have 
seen
incredibly rare games (Scott Adams Gold Colelctor edition comes to 
mind,
1000 total made I think) sell for much less than they should.  And I've
seen rare, but not impossible to find, games gor for absurd amounts
(some of you folk here were the buyers in fact!).  I sill can't believe
the original Starcross and Suspended regualarly go for $300 and up for
example, they're just not that rare.  I've seen dozens on eBay over the
last couple years.  And come on, almost $200 for Origin's re-release of
Ultima I??  I'm almost ashamed to see people pay that much for it
(though that won't stop me from selling the extra one I have soon :) ).
On the other hand, there are some games I have been searching for for
years and have not seen EVER on eBay (or anywhere else), even once, 
thus
making them even more rare than Akalabeth or Mt. Drash technically.  
And
when I come across one like this by some rare fluke, I may get it for 
as
low as $10 (maybe no one else wants it, who knows).
	The other part of the equation is market demand.  Many more people 
want the Starcross saucer, say, than the Scott Adams Gold Collectors 
edition.  If you are collecting for yourself, you (one) can choose to 
be finicky.  If you want to deal in collectibles, you have to accept 
what the market decides is valuable.  Even if it isn't rare.  Sometimes 
rare means an item was obscure and, honestly, unimportant.   Well, 
unimportant to people today.

I have sold things and received far less than a guy did the week
before.  Is it because I'm in Canada?  Who knows.  I've also found the
level of detail in the description of the item and its condition can
have a big impact on the final price of a rare item, through
experimentation.
	I would add that photographs of the actual item help tremendously.  I 
know I'm less inclined to bid high for stuff if I don't see a photo.  
With the scammers on eBay a photo, right or wrong, gives me more 
confidence that there is a tangible item there.

  I believe that most collectors have somewhat limited
cash flow, and so I have never seen any single game sell for over $1000
that I can recall, and I don't know if it ever would.
	I've seen stuff hit the $2,000 mark.

[Snip]
Interestingly, I have found trading used DVDs and Books much more
predictable - most go for roughly the same price in a reliable way,
there is not nearly as much uncertainty as in the game area.
	I imagine because there is are many more DVDs and books out there to 
stabilize the market.  Also, those markets are much broader than the 
collectible game market.  We're still very much a hobby (as is comics).

--

Edward Franks

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Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Edward Franks]

On Jan 5, 2004, at 9:59 PM, Dan Chisarick wrote:
[Snip]
I've done some downright stupid things (once I bought an Ultima II box 
just for the 1st edition manual w/the typo + the card that says "this 
is one of the first copies..."  The disks were copies (didn't care, 
had a set), there was no map (I already have one), the box was beat 
(see above), the card was good but THE MANUAL WAS A PHOTOCOPY.  I 
couldn't tell from the auction because the original was B&W.  But I 
badly wanted that card, and the seller "would get back to me" (never 
did).  So, I was an idiot there and that was pretty much the end of 
variants for me (and yes I see the shiny 1st edition manual up right 
now).
	Just a quick note -- the one that is up is mine.  ;-)

	The good thing is that you reminded me to look at the auction again.  
I realized that I had forgotten to include a description of the 
condition of the box.  I like to let people know if there are any 
broken parts, marks, or tape on things.  The rest I don't worry about 
describing.  After all, these are old games and they are going to have 
wear-and-tear.

--

Edward Franks

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Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Jim Leonard]

Lee K. Seitz wrote:

You do realize Mr. Romero is the man behind the Apple II Reunion
(http://www.gamespot.com/features/apple2/), right?  It was invitation
John, were any documentaries or videotapes of that event released?
--
Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
World's largest electronic gaming project:http://www.MobyGames.com/
A delicious slice of the demoscene:http://www.MindCandyDVD.com/
Various oldskool PC rants and ramblings:   http://www.oldskool.org/
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RE: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Josh Lulewicz]

Ack!  Wy too expensive :(

-Original Message-
From: Feldhamer, Stuart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 9:58 AM
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
Subject: RE: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value


*Cough* Game Developer's Conference *Cough*

-Original Message-
From: Lee K. Seitz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 10:40 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value


Howard Feldman stated:
>
>I went to the Classic Gaming Expo in Vegas in August.  There were tons 
>of 'famous' people there,

>So since you ask, I think it would be cool to have something like that 
>for vintage computer games.  I'd love to meet some of the authors 
>myself, and hear some of their stories first hand instead of reading 
>about it in some book.  As far as I know there isn't a meeting like
this 
>that I know of.

You do realize Mr. Romero is the man behind the Apple II Reunion
(http://www.gamespot.com/features/apple2/), right?  It was invitation
only (which I completely understand the reasons for), but it *would*
be cool to have something like that open to the public.  I know there
are some classic computer (as opposed to video game) shows here and
there, but I'm not sure that they have many "celebrity" guests.

-- 
Lee K. Seitz
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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It is believed to be reliable, but is not guaranteed for accuracy or
completeness. Details provided do 
not supersede your normal trade confirmations or statements. Any product
is subject to prior sale. 
CIBC World Markets Corp, its affiliated companies, and their officers or
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Although CIBC World Markets Corp. is an indirect, wholly owned
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it is solely responsible for its contractual obligations. Any securities
products recommended, purchased, or sold in 
any client accounts 
(i) will not be insured by the FDIC, 
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Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Jim Leonard]

Howard Feldman wrote:

I went to the Classic Gaming Expo in Vegas in August.  There were tons 
of 'famous' people there, including Activision's founders, almost a 
dozen Blue Sky Rangers (Intellivision programmers), Nolan Bushnell 
(founder of Atari and Chuck E Cheese, among other things).  They all 
gave 1-2 hour 'lectures' where they told stories etc about the 'good ol 
days' and took questions, and afterwards they gladly autographed stuff 
people had brought.
Did you stop by the MobyGames booth?  I was the guy wearing glasses.

So since you ask, I think it would be cool to have something like that 
for vintage computer games.  I'd love to meet some of the authors 
myself, and hear some of their stories first hand instead of reading 
about it in some book.  As far as I know there isn't a meeting like this 
that I know of.  I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I'd be 
willing to fly halfway around the country to attend something like that 
(especially if it was in a cool place, like the CGExpo was).  As a bonus 
some of us could meet each other in person too.  Just a thought..
Well, I'll probably be at CGExpo again next year, although we may also
try to make Phillyclassic.  There's a show in Austin as well.  As for
meeting software developers, your best bet is probably the annual Game
Developer's Conference, however I'm not sure how much "old" talent shows
up there.
--
Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
World's largest electronic gaming project:http://www.MobyGames.com/
A delicious slice of the demoscene:http://www.MindCandyDVD.com/
Various oldskool PC rants and ramblings:   http://www.oldskool.org/


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RE: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Feldhamer, Stuart]

*Cough* Game Developer's Conference *Cough*

-Original Message-
From: Lee K. Seitz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 10:40 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value


Howard Feldman stated:
>
>I went to the Classic Gaming Expo in Vegas in August.  There were tons 
>of 'famous' people there,

>So since you ask, I think it would be cool to have something like that 
>for vintage computer games.  I'd love to meet some of the authors 
>myself, and hear some of their stories first hand instead of reading 
>about it in some book.  As far as I know there isn't a meeting like this 
>that I know of.

You do realize Mr. Romero is the man behind the Apple II Reunion
(http://www.gamespot.com/features/apple2/), right?  It was invitation
only (which I completely understand the reasons for), but it *would*
be cool to have something like that open to the public.  I know there
are some classic computer (as opposed to video game) shows here and
there, but I'm not sure that they have many "celebrity" guests.

-- 
Lee K. Seitz
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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change without notice. 
It is believed to be reliable, but is not guaranteed for accuracy or completeness. 
Details provided do 
not supersede your normal trade confirmations or statements. Any product is subject to 
prior sale. 
CIBC World Markets Corp, its affiliated companies, and their officers or employees, 
may have a position 
in or make a market in any security described above, and may act as an investment 
banker or advisor to such.  
Although CIBC World Markets Corp. is an indirect, wholly owned subsidiary of Canadian 
Imperial Bank of Commerce ("CIBC"), 
it is solely responsible for its contractual obligations. Any securities products 
recommended, purchased, or sold in 
any client accounts 
(i) will not be insured by the FDIC, 
(ii)will not be deposits or obligations of CIBC, 
(iii) will not be endorsed or guaranteed by CIBC, and 
(iv) will be subject to risks, including possible loss of principal invested.

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Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Lee K. Seitz]

Howard Feldman stated:
>
>I went to the Classic Gaming Expo in Vegas in August.  There were tons 
>of 'famous' people there,

>So since you ask, I think it would be cool to have something like that 
>for vintage computer games.  I'd love to meet some of the authors 
>myself, and hear some of their stories first hand instead of reading 
>about it in some book.  As far as I know there isn't a meeting like this 
>that I know of.

You do realize Mr. Romero is the man behind the Apple II Reunion
(http://www.gamespot.com/features/apple2/), right?  It was invitation
only (which I completely understand the reasons for), but it *would*
be cool to have something like that open to the public.  I know there
are some classic computer (as opposed to video game) shows here and
there, but I'm not sure that they have many "celebrity" guests.

-- 
Lee K. Seitz
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Howard Feldman]

I went to the Classic Gaming Expo in Vegas in August.  There were tons 
of 'famous' people there, including Activision's founders, almost a 
dozen Blue Sky Rangers (Intellivision programmers), Nolan Bushnell 
(founder of Atari and Chuck E Cheese, among other things).  They all 
gave 1-2 hour 'lectures' where they told stories etc about the 'good ol 
days' and took questions, and afterwards they gladly autographed stuff 
people had brought.

So since you ask, I think it would be cool to have something like that 
for vintage computer games.  I'd love to meet some of the authors 
myself, and hear some of their stories first hand instead of reading 
about it in some book.  As far as I know there isn't a meeting like this 
that I know of.  I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I'd be 
willing to fly halfway around the country to attend something like that 
(especially if it was in a cool place, like the CGExpo was).  As a bonus 
some of us could meet each other in person too.  Just a thought..

As for your actual question, personally I wouldn't place a big value on 
autographed games compared to non-autographed ones.  In fact I'm not 
sure if I'd want them defacing my game :)  I did manage to track down 
Don Worth, author of Beneath Apple Manor, if anyone wants to contact him 
(want yours signed Tom?)

John Romero wrote:
I have an interesting question for you guys

Would you consigder a classic game more valuable if it was signed by the
author?  

If so, and you'd like your classic Apple II games signed, I might know
where the author is and could persuade him to sign em. :)
I have a few old Apple II games signed by their authors and I've gotten
some nice reactions from them
- john

The goal of the works of a genius' existance lies only in itself.
--

Howard Feldman
Author of the Search for Freedom Computer Role-Playing Game
Visit its homepage at:  http://bioinfo.mshri.on.ca/people/feldman
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Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Pedro Quaresma]

Hugh Falk wrote:
>Those are neither folio nor grey.  What you have are the Commodore re-issues of Infocom games.  Unfortunately these are probably the most >commonly available shrink-wrapped Infocom's you can find :-(

Don't forget the "Infocom from Mastertronic" series, which are, from my experience, even more common.


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Salvador Caetano IMVT
Div. Sistemas de Informação / Systems and Information Division
Administração e Desenvolvimento Lotus Notes / 
Lotus Notes Administration and Development
[EMAIL PROTECTED] // +351 22 7867000 (ext. 3492)

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RE: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[John Romero]

I have an interesting question for you guys

Would you consigder a classic game more valuable if it was signed by the
author?  

If so, and you'd like your classic Apple II games signed, I might know
where the author is and could persuade him to sign em. :)

I have a few old Apple II games signed by their authors and I've gotten
some nice reactions from them

- john


The goal of the works of a genius' existance lies only in itself.


> -Original Message-
> From: Dan Chisarick [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 2:51 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value
> 
> 
> I saw what I think was a re-packaged Doriath in the last 2-3 
> months but 
> other than that, zip.  "Black Magic" for the Apple was the 
> first Apple 
> game I bought off ebay.  That was 2+ years ago, and I might have only 
> seen one since then.  Superb game.  Does not take long to 
> beat.  Tower 
> of Myraglen has a puzzle where you can only enter a certain passage 
> (rather early in the game too) at midnight.  And that's 
> midnight on the 
> computer's system clock :)  The first day I played it it 
> happened to be 
> near midnight, and I walked right in.  The next day I couldn't figure 
> out how to get in.
> 
> 
> On Jan 6, 2004, at 8:56 PM, Brian the Fist wrote:
> 
> >> Not to pick nits, but the "true" piece of art is the game code 
> >> itself. The extras -- manual, cloth map, etc. -- are what make it 
> >> collectable, but the art is the entire package, which includes the 
> >> game.  What good is the manual if you can't play?
> >
> > Perhaps I wasn't clear, I meant 'art' in reference to art 
> collecting 
> > mentioned earlier.  Thus I was being quite literal - I collect 'box 
> > art'.
> >
> >>> On the other hand, there are some games I have been searching for 
> >>> for years and have not seen EVER on eBay (or anywhere else), even 
> >>> once, thus making them even more rare than Akalabeth or Mt. Drash 
> >>> technically.
> >>> And
> >>> when I come across one like this by some rare fluke, I may get it 
> >>> for as
> >>> low as $10 (maybe no one else wants it, who knows).
> >>
> >> Like what, out of curiousity?
> >
> > One that immediately comes to mind is Destiny by Software 
> Investments 
> > Plus.  Doriath was also incredibly difficult to find (an 
> excellent C64 
> > game if you've never tried it).  Got both cheap, but not 
> until several 
> > YEARS of searching eBay weekly.  Also Tower of Myraglen and 
> trolls and 
> > Tribulations.  Another C64 title, Spirit of the Stones, and 
> Savage by 
> > Rainbird/Microplay/Probe were also cheap but hard to find 
> (not as hard 
> > as the others though).  Also Talisman by Polarware.  Might 
> and Magic I 
> > pre-box version (was just sold as a huge manual with map 
> and disks). 
> > While I may have seen an odd loose disk for one or two of these, I 
> > rarely saw one appear complete and as soon as I did, I 
> grabbed it and 
> > no one else seemed to want them
> >
> > Incidentally, here's a few games I have never once seen (other than 
> > perhaps a loose disk) on eBay, in several years of 
> searching - no idea 
> > why - Labyrinth of Crete (Scott Adams), Birth of the Phoenix, Black 
> > Magic (Datasoft, US Boxed version), Coveted Mirror (Comprehend 
> > version), Crypts of Terror (In-Home software, saw loose 
> disk once..), 
> > Dungeons Dragons and Other perils (XLent software), 
> Fraktured Faebles 
> > (American Eagle), Gelfling Adventure (Sierra), Palace in 
> Thunderland 
> > (Micro Lab), Quarterstaff (Simulated Environment Systems, before 
> > Infocom bought it), Secret of Easter Island (Three Sigma), Seventh 
> > Sword of Mendor (Grandslam), Sorcerer of Siva (Epyx), most 
> Synergistic 
> > Software early games, Spirit of Glenmore Castle (On 
> Target), Troll's 
> > Tale (Sierra), Zombies (Bram).  And my personal holy grail 
> of hard to 
> > find games, Dungeons of Despair (Wizardry Zero??).  There 
> are very few 
> > references to
> > this latter one, though it is on the Giant Game Programmers 
> list, and
> > from what I can scrounge, this may have been a Wizardry I beta demo,
> > released to the Apple user group community as the game was 
> being made?
> > Anyone know any more on this one?  and as for the other games listed
> > here, have any of you ever seen any of them, ever, a

Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Stefan Lindblom]

Hmm yeah, that sounds exactly what it looks like.. 
some kind of 80's "budget" edition or something. Oh well, thanks Tom and Hugh 
for letting me know that. The amount of knowledge on this mailinglist 
is vast indeed :)

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 4:35 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash 
  cassette and market value
  
  Those are neither folio nor grey.  What you have are the Commodore 
  re-issues of Infocom games.  Unfortunately these are probably the most 
  commonly available shrink-wrapped Infocom's you can find :-(
   
  Hugh-Original Message- From: Stefan Lindblom 
  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Sent: Jan 7, 2004 5:46 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: 
  Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value 
  
  
  
  My mistake, I meant I take these are the folio 
  ones. I should probably go and sleep now before I get a label of stupidity 
  here :)
   
  /Stefan
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Stefan Lindblom 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 2:42 
AM
    Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash 
    cassette and market value

I thought I recalled having seen one of these 
mentioned, although I dont know which one. I picked up a bunch of games half 
a year ago, and among them were the C-64 version of Deadline. I am a bit 
noob though since I cant tell whether or not this is a folio or "grey". It 
is flat, like a fold out thing. Sounds like a folio, right? On the front it 
is blue at the top, white in the middle with the Deadline documentary 
evidence picture, and grey/silver with the Commodore logo at the bottom. The 
whole backside is the same grey/silver color as the front bottom. I also 
found suspended with the pretty much identical flat box. Both are sealed so 
I cant check any further. I take it these are the grey ones and therefore of 
pretty low interest?
 
/Stefan
 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Stephane Racle 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 2:30 
      AM
  Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash 
  cassette and market value
  Interesting. Perhaps very few copies were published since 
  it was the last of the four Infocomics and the other ones had relatively 
  little success? Yes, I was referring to the $19.99 "Buy It Now". 
  That Deadline grey is interesting I just saw a shrinkwrapped Deadline 
  folio go for $29.99 (although that was a "Buy It Now" as well). Come to 
  think of it though, Deadline folios seem to come up on eBay fairly 
  regularly - and a good number of them are still in the shrink. In fact, I 
  think I've seen more Deadline folios than Deadline greys over the last few 
  years.I agree with you on actual vs perceived value. Actually, 
  until last year, I didn't particularly care for Infocomics, which I 
  perceived as relatively uninteresting computer comic book experiments. 
  Only after finding a three-pack of them as part of a larger bundle of 
  software did I decide I should try to get the last one. On the other hand, 
  Suspended and Starcross were no brainers... and I suspect they are on many 
  software collectors' lists.Marco Thorek wrote:
  Stephane Racle schrieb:
  
One package I had never seen on eBay until tonight was Zorkquest II.
I've seen all the other Infocomics about a hundred times, but never that
one. Is it that uncommon? One would think they'd be plenty of copies
lying around...

It indeed is that uncommon. Much more so than a Starcross saucer,
Suspended mask or sealed Fooblitzky. I have been on ebay now for five
years and only saw it once and that one was even sealed. 

I managed to win that auction for a mere $50, as there was only one
other serious bidder. And the current auction you probably talked about
ended with $19.99 via "Buy it now." On the other hand I was outbid
several times on a number of Fooblitzkys, which do turn up every other
month.

Maybe we have to differentiate between actual value, which considers
factors such as rarity and item condition, and perceived value.

Looking through ebay's completed auctions I just saw a Deadline grey go
for $76... 

Marco

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Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[hughfalk]

Those are neither folio nor grey.  What you have are the Commodore re-issues of Infocom games.  Unfortunately these are probably the most commonly available shrink-wrapped Infocom's you can find :-(
 
Hugh-Original Message- From: Stefan Lindblom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Sent: Jan 7, 2004 5:46 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value 


My mistake, I meant I take these are the folio ones. I should probably go and sleep now before I get a label of stupidity here :)
 
/Stefan

- Original Message - 
From: Stefan Lindblom 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 2:42 AM
Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

I thought I recalled having seen one of these mentioned, although I dont know which one. I picked up a bunch of games half a year ago, and among them were the C-64 version of Deadline. I am a bit noob though since I cant tell whether or not this is a folio or "grey". It is flat, like a fold out thing. Sounds like a folio, right? On the front it is blue at the top, white in the middle with the Deadline documentary evidence picture, and grey/silver with the Commodore logo at the bottom. The whole backside is the same grey/silver color as the front bottom. I also found suspended with the pretty much identical flat box. Both are sealed so I cant check any further. I take it these are the grey ones and therefore of pretty low interest?
 
/Stefan
 

- Original Message - 
From: Stephane Racle 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 2:30 AM
Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value
Interesting. Perhaps very few copies were published since it was the last of the four Infocomics and the other ones had relatively little success? Yes, I was referring to the $19.99 "Buy It Now". That Deadline grey is interesting I just saw a shrinkwrapped Deadline folio go for $29.99 (although that was a "Buy It Now" as well). Come to think of it though, Deadline folios seem to come up on eBay fairly regularly - and a good number of them are still in the shrink. In fact, I think I've seen more Deadline folios than Deadline greys over the last few years.I agree with you on actual vs perceived value. Actually, until last year, I didn't particularly care for Infocomics, which I perceived as relatively uninteresting computer comic book experiments. Only after finding a three-pack of them as part of a larger bundle of software did I decide I should try to get the last one. On the other hand, Suspended and Starcross were no brainers... and I suspect they are on many software collectors' lists.Marco Thorek wrote:
Stephane Racle schrieb:
  
One package I had never seen on eBay until tonight was Zorkquest II.
I've seen all the other Infocomics about a hundred times, but never that
one. Is it that uncommon? One would think they'd be plenty of copies
lying around...

It indeed is that uncommon. Much more so than a Starcross saucer,
Suspended mask or sealed Fooblitzky. I have been on ebay now for five
years and only saw it once and that one was even sealed. 

I managed to win that auction for a mere $50, as there was only one
other serious bidder. And the current auction you probably talked about
ended with $19.99 via "Buy it now." On the other hand I was outbid
several times on a number of Fooblitzkys, which do turn up every other
month.

Maybe we have to differentiate between actual value, which considers
factors such as rarity and item condition, and perceived value.

Looking through ebay's completed auctions I just saw a Deadline grey go
for $76... 

Marco

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Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[AvatarTom]

In a message dated 01/07/2004 7:47:08 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


My mistake, I meant I take these are the folio ones. I should probably go and sleep now before I get a label of stupidity here :)


Well there are normal grey box and normal (big) folio releases Stefan. But for C64 there are also "small" folder and "large" folder releases specific to the C64. The "large" C64 folders are pretty rare (mostly white I think), the small grey/blue ones are common.

Tom
Visit my web page for many games for sale/trade and screen shots of Ultima Escape from Mt. Drash,  Tom's Ultima, Infocom and RPG page 

Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Stefan Lindblom]

My mistake, I meant I take these are the folio 
ones. I should probably go and sleep now before I get a label of stupidity here 
:)
 
/Stefan

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Stefan Lindblom 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 2:42 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash 
  cassette and market value
  
  I thought I recalled having seen one of these 
  mentioned, although I dont know which one. I picked up a bunch of games half a 
  year ago, and among them were the C-64 version of Deadline. I am a bit noob 
  though since I cant tell whether or not this is a folio or "grey". It is flat, 
  like a fold out thing. Sounds like a folio, right? On the front it is blue at 
  the top, white in the middle with the Deadline documentary evidence picture, 
  and grey/silver with the Commodore logo at the bottom. The whole backside is 
  the same grey/silver color as the front bottom. I also found suspended with 
  the pretty much identical flat box. Both are sealed so I cant check any 
  further. I take it these are the grey ones and therefore of pretty low 
  interest?
   
  /Stefan
   
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Stephane Racle 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 2:30 
AM
    Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash 
    cassette and market value
Interesting. Perhaps very few copies were published since it 
was the last of the four Infocomics and the other ones had relatively little 
success? Yes, I was referring to the $19.99 "Buy It Now". That 
Deadline grey is interesting I just saw a shrinkwrapped Deadline folio 
go for $29.99 (although that was a "Buy It Now" as well). Come to think of 
it though, Deadline folios seem to come up on eBay fairly regularly - and a 
good number of them are still in the shrink. In fact, I think I've seen more 
Deadline folios than Deadline greys over the last few years.I agree 
with you on actual vs perceived value. Actually, until last year, I didn't 
particularly care for Infocomics, which I perceived as relatively 
uninteresting computer comic book experiments. Only after finding a 
three-pack of them as part of a larger bundle of software did I decide I 
should try to get the last one. On the other hand, Suspended and Starcross 
were no brainers... and I suspect they are on many software collectors' 
lists.Marco Thorek wrote:
Stephane Racle schrieb:
  
  One package I had never seen on eBay until tonight was Zorkquest II.
I've seen all the other Infocomics about a hundred times, but never that
one. Is it that uncommon? One would think they'd be plenty of copies
lying around...

It indeed is that uncommon. Much more so than a Starcross saucer,
Suspended mask or sealed Fooblitzky. I have been on ebay now for five
years and only saw it once and that one was even sealed. 

I managed to win that auction for a mere $50, as there was only one
other serious bidder. And the current auction you probably talked about
ended with $19.99 via "Buy it now." On the other hand I was outbid
several times on a number of Fooblitzkys, which do turn up every other
month.

Maybe we have to differentiate between actual value, which considers
factors such as rarity and item condition, and perceived value.

Looking through ebay's completed auctions I just saw a Deadline grey go
for $76... 

Marco

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Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Stefan Lindblom]

I thought I recalled having seen one of these 
mentioned, although I dont know which one. I picked up a bunch of games half a 
year ago, and among them were the C-64 version of Deadline. I am a bit noob 
though since I cant tell whether or not this is a folio or "grey". It is flat, 
like a fold out thing. Sounds like a folio, right? On the front it is blue at 
the top, white in the middle with the Deadline documentary evidence picture, and 
grey/silver with the Commodore logo at the bottom. The whole backside is the 
same grey/silver color as the front bottom. I also found suspended with the 
pretty much identical flat box. Both are sealed so I cant check any further. I 
take it these are the grey ones and therefore of pretty low 
interest?
 
/Stefan
 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Stephane Racle 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 2:30 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash 
  cassette and market value
  Interesting. Perhaps very few copies were published since it 
  was the last of the four Infocomics and the other ones had relatively little 
  success? Yes, I was referring to the $19.99 "Buy It Now". That 
  Deadline grey is interesting I just saw a shrinkwrapped Deadline folio go 
  for $29.99 (although that was a "Buy It Now" as well). Come to think of it 
  though, Deadline folios seem to come up on eBay fairly regularly - and a good 
  number of them are still in the shrink. In fact, I think I've seen more 
  Deadline folios than Deadline greys over the last few years.I agree 
  with you on actual vs perceived value. Actually, until last year, I didn't 
  particularly care for Infocomics, which I perceived as relatively 
  uninteresting computer comic book experiments. Only after finding a three-pack 
  of them as part of a larger bundle of software did I decide I should try to 
  get the last one. On the other hand, Suspended and Starcross were no 
  brainers... and I suspect they are on many software collectors' 
  lists.Marco Thorek wrote:
  Stephane Racle schrieb:
  
One package I had never seen on eBay until tonight was Zorkquest II.
I've seen all the other Infocomics about a hundred times, but never that
one. Is it that uncommon? One would think they'd be plenty of copies
lying around...

It indeed is that uncommon. Much more so than a Starcross saucer,
Suspended mask or sealed Fooblitzky. I have been on ebay now for five
years and only saw it once and that one was even sealed. 

I managed to win that auction for a mere $50, as there was only one
other serious bidder. And the current auction you probably talked about
ended with $19.99 via "Buy it now." On the other hand I was outbid
several times on a number of Fooblitzkys, which do turn up every other
month.

Maybe we have to differentiate between actual value, which considers
factors such as rarity and item condition, and perceived value.

Looking through ebay's completed auctions I just saw a Deadline grey go
for $76... 

Marco

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Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Stephane Racle]

Interesting. Perhaps very few copies were published since it was the
last of the four Infocomics and the other ones had relatively little
success? 

Yes, I was referring to the $19.99 "Buy It Now". That Deadline grey is
interesting I just saw a shrinkwrapped Deadline folio go for $29.99
(although that was a "Buy It Now" as well). Come to think of it though,
Deadline folios seem to come up on eBay fairly regularly - and a good
number of them are still in the shrink. In fact, I think I've seen more
Deadline folios than Deadline greys over the last few years.

I agree with you on actual vs perceived value. Actually, until last
year, I didn't particularly care for Infocomics, which I perceived as
relatively uninteresting computer comic book experiments. Only after
finding a three-pack of them as part of a larger bundle of software did
I decide I should try to get the last one. On the other hand, Suspended
and Starcross were no brainers... and I suspect they are on many
software collectors' lists.

Marco Thorek wrote:

  Stephane Racle schrieb:
  
  
One package I had never seen on eBay until tonight was Zorkquest II.
I've seen all the other Infocomics about a hundred times, but never that
one. Is it that uncommon? One would think they'd be plenty of copies
lying around...

  
  
It indeed is that uncommon. Much more so than a Starcross saucer,
Suspended mask or sealed Fooblitzky. I have been on ebay now for five
years and only saw it once and that one was even sealed. 

I managed to win that auction for a mere $50, as there was only one
other serious bidder. And the current auction you probably talked about
ended with $19.99 via "Buy it now." On the other hand I was outbid
several times on a number of Fooblitzkys, which do turn up every other
month.

Maybe we have to differentiate between actual value, which considers
factors such as rarity and item condition, and perceived value.

Looking through ebay's completed auctions I just saw a Deadline grey go
for $76... 

Marco

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Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Marco Thorek]

Stephane Racle schrieb:
> 
> One package I had never seen on eBay until tonight was Zorkquest II.
> I've seen all the other Infocomics about a hundred times, but never that
> one. Is it that uncommon? One would think they'd be plenty of copies
> lying around...

It indeed is that uncommon. Much more so than a Starcross saucer,
Suspended mask or sealed Fooblitzky. I have been on ebay now for five
years and only saw it once and that one was even sealed. 

I managed to win that auction for a mere $50, as there was only one
other serious bidder. And the current auction you probably talked about
ended with $19.99 via "Buy it now." On the other hand I was outbid
several times on a number of Fooblitzkys, which do turn up every other
month.

Maybe we have to differentiate between actual value, which considers
factors such as rarity and item condition, and perceived value.

Looking through ebay's completed auctions I just saw a Deadline grey go
for $76... 

Marco

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Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Dan Chisarick]

I saw what I think was a re-packaged Doriath in the last 2-3 months but 
other than that, zip.  "Black Magic" for the Apple was the first Apple 
game I bought off ebay.  That was 2+ years ago, and I might have only 
seen one since then.  Superb game.  Does not take long to beat.  Tower 
of Myraglen has a puzzle where you can only enter a certain passage 
(rather early in the game too) at midnight.  And that's midnight on the 
computer's system clock :)  The first day I played it it happened to be 
near midnight, and I walked right in.  The next day I couldn't figure 
out how to get in.

On Jan 6, 2004, at 8:56 PM, Brian the Fist wrote:

Not to pick nits, but the "true" piece of art is the game code itself.
The extras -- manual, cloth map, etc. -- are what make it collectable,
but the art is the entire package, which includes the game.  What good
is the manual if you can't play?
Perhaps I wasn't clear, I meant 'art' in reference to art collecting
mentioned earlier.  Thus I was being quite literal - I collect 'box
art'.
On the other hand, there are some games I have been searching for for
years and have not seen EVER on eBay (or anywhere else), even once, 
thus
making them even more rare than Akalabeth or Mt. Drash technically.  
And
when I come across one like this by some rare fluke, I may get it 
for as
low as $10 (maybe no one else wants it, who knows).
Like what, out of curiousity?
One that immediately comes to mind is Destiny by Software Investments
Plus.  Doriath was also incredibly difficult to find (an excellent C64
game if you've never tried it).  Got both cheap, but not until several
YEARS of searching eBay weekly.  Also Tower of Myraglen and trolls and
Tribulations.  Another C64 title, Spirit of the Stones, and Savage by
Rainbird/Microplay/Probe were also cheap but hard to find (not as hard
as the others though).  Also Talisman by Polarware.  Might and Magic I
pre-box version (was just sold as a huge manual with map and disks).
While I may have seen an odd loose disk for one or two of these, I
rarely saw one appear complete and as soon as I did, I grabbed it and 
no
one else seemed to want them

Incidentally, here's a few games I have never once seen (other than
perhaps a loose disk) on eBay, in several years of searching - no idea
why - Labyrinth of Crete (Scott Adams), Birth of the Phoenix, Black
Magic (Datasoft, US Boxed version), Coveted Mirror (Comprehend 
version),
Crypts of Terror (In-Home software, saw loose disk once..), Dungeons
Dragons and Other perils (XLent software), Fraktured Faebles (American
Eagle), Gelfling Adventure (Sierra), Palace in Thunderland (Micro Lab),
Quarterstaff (Simulated Environment Systems, before Infocom bought it),
Secret of Easter Island (Three Sigma), Seventh Sword of Mendor
(Grandslam), Sorcerer of Siva (Epyx), most Synergistic Software early
games, Spirit of Glenmore Castle (On Target), Troll's Tale (Sierra),
Zombies (Bram).  And my personal holy grail of hard to find games,
Dungeons of Despair (Wizardry Zero??).  There are very few references 
to
this latter one, though it is on the Giant Game Programmers list, and
from what I can scrounge, this may have been a Wizardry I beta demo,
released to the Apple user group community as the game was being made?
Anyone know any more on this one?  and as for the other games listed
here, have any of you ever seen any of them, ever, anywhere?  Maybe 
I've
just had bad luck?  I suppose some of these, might not exist though I
know most do.  Anyhow, these all appear to be rarer than Akalabeth and
friends.  Oh yes, there's also the Dysan 3 1/2" Infocoms, and DEC
Rainbow ones...

--
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A Computer Fantasy Role-Playing Game
Visit its Homepage at http://bioinfo.mshri.on.ca/people/feldman/
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Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Jim Leonard]

Stephane Racle wrote:
One package I had never seen on eBay until tonight was Zorkquest II. 
I've seen all the other Infocomics about a hundred times, but never that 
one. Is it that uncommon? One would think they'd be plenty of copies 
lying around...
It is extremely uncommon, actually.  I believe the trivia entry for it 
on mobygames.com has more info, but not sure at the moment (can't get 
http working).
--
Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
World's largest electronic gaming project:http://www.MobyGames.com/
A delicious slice of the demoscene:http://www.MindCandyDVD.com/
Various oldskool PC rants and ramblings:   http://www.oldskool.org/

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Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Lee K. Seitz]

Dan Chisarick stated:
>
>Command HQ and Global Conquest: Both.  Dan/Dani was brilliant.

>Interestingly, Dan(i) is not the only classic programmer to make a 
>switch:
>
>http://atari.games.free.fr/atarixl/authors/william%20mataga_e.htm

Jay/Jamie Fenton (creator of Gorf and other things) has as well.  I
read an interview with either Dani or Jamie somewhere where she
discussed why it seemed game developers seemed to have more
inclination to have "gender reassignment."  I think she attributed it
in part to creativity, but it's been a while so I may be
misremembering.

-- 
Lee K. Seitz
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Pedro Quaresma]

Was "The Seventh Sword of Mendor" ever released? I remember in the early 90s waiting for the release of that game (which seemed to be pretty similar to Amberstar / Ambermoon). 

I also remember it being developed by an Hungarian team (after a google search, they were apparently called Flatliners Design, but I can't find any more references to that company), and eventually going to be published by Grandslam.

That's as far as my knowledge goes I'm afraid. I'll dig for the magazine with the screenshots.

--
Pedro R. Quaresma
Salvador Caetano IMVT
Div. Sistemas de Informação / Systems and Information Division
Administração e Desenvolvimento Lotus Notes / 
Lotus Notes Administration and Development
[EMAIL PROTECTED] // +351 22 7867000 (ext. 3492)

Toyota Prius '01, Aqua Ice Opalescent, 37K km., "Esperanza"
 










                     

        
Para: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
A/C: 
Ref: 
cc: 
Assunto: Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value


Brian the Fist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
07-01-2004 01:56


Solicita-se resposta a feldman


> Not to pick nits, but the "true" piece of art is the game code itself.
> The extras -- manual, cloth map, etc. -- are what make it collectable,
> but the art is the entire package, which includes the game.  What good
> is the manual if you can't play?

Perhaps I wasn't clear, I meant 'art' in reference to art collecting
mentioned earlier.  Thus I was being quite literal - I collect 'box
art'.
 
> > On the other hand, there are some games I have been searching for for
> > years and have not seen EVER on eBay (or anywhere else), even once, thus
> > making them even more rare than Akalabeth or Mt. Drash technically.  And
> > when I come across one like this by some rare fluke, I may get it for as
> > low as $10 (maybe no one else wants it, who knows).
> 
> Like what, out of curiousity?

One that immediately comes to mind is Destiny by Software Investments
Plus.  Doriath was also incredibly difficult to find (an excellent C64
game if you've never tried it).  Got both cheap, but not until several
YEARS of searching eBay weekly.  Also Tower of Myraglen and trolls and
Tribulations.  Another C64 title, Spirit of the Stones, and Savage by
Rainbird/Microplay/Probe were also cheap but hard to find (not as hard
as the others though).  Also Talisman by Polarware.  Might and Magic I
pre-box version (was just sold as a huge manual with map and disks). 
While I may have seen an odd loose disk for one or two of these, I
rarely saw one appear complete and as soon as I did, I grabbed it and no
one else seemed to want them

Incidentally, here's a few games I have never once seen (other than
perhaps a loose disk) on eBay, in several years of searching - no idea
why - Labyrinth of Crete (Scott Adams), Birth of the Phoenix, Black
Magic (Datasoft, US Boxed version), Coveted Mirror (Comprehend version),
Crypts of Terror (In-Home software, saw loose disk once..), Dungeons
Dragons and Other perils (XLent software), Fraktured Faebles (American
Eagle), Gelfling Adventure (Sierra), Palace in Thunderland (Micro Lab),
Quarterstaff (Simulated Environment Systems, before Infocom bought it),
Secret of Easter Island (Three Sigma), Seventh Sword of Mendor
(Grandslam), Sorcerer of Siva (Epyx), most Synergistic Software early
games, Spirit of Glenmore Castle (On Target), Troll's Tale (Sierra),
Zombies (Bram).  And my personal holy grail of hard to find games,
Dungeons of Despair (Wizardry Zero??).  There are very few references to
this latter one, though it is on the Giant Game Programmers list, and
from what I can scrounge, this may have been a Wizardry I beta demo,
released to the Apple user group community as the game was being made? 
Anyone know any more on this one?  and as for the other games listed
here, have any of you ever seen any of them, ever, anywhere?  Maybe I've
just had bad luck?  I suppose some of these, might not exist though I
know most do.  Anyhow, these all appear to be rarer than Akalabeth and
friends.  Oh yes, there's also the Dysan 3 1/2" Infocoms, and DEC
Rainbow ones...

-- 
--
Howard Feldman, Author of The Search for Freedom
A Computer Fantasy Role-Playing Game
Visit its Homepage at http://bioinfo.mshri.on.ca/people/feldman/


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RE: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Hugh Falk]

That was a great game...I'll bring it up to the group next time.

Hugh

-Original Message-
From: Stephen Emond [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 11:41 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

I quite enjoyed Space Taxi... hard to believe it's 20 years old now...

Steve

- Original Message - 
From: "Hugh Falk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 10:39 PM
Subject: RE: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value


> In order for publishers or developers to be singled out on GOTCHA,
they
> have to have a certain number nominees and awards for their games.  As
> much as I like MUSE, their only games nominated were Castle
Wolfenstein
> and Robotwar.  Wolfenstein was the only winner.  Believe it or not,
> there is a group of people doing the voting...not just me :-(
> 
> Hugh


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Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Stephane Racle]

One package I had never seen on eBay until tonight was Zorkquest II. 
I've seen all the other Infocomics about a hundred times, but never that 
one. Is it that uncommon? One would think they'd be plenty of copies 
lying around...

Incidentally, here's a few games I have never once seen (other than
perhaps a loose disk) on eBay, in several years of searching - no idea
why - Labyrinth of Crete (Scott Adams), Birth of the Phoenix, Black
Magic (Datasoft, US Boxed version), Coveted Mirror (Comprehend version),
Crypts of Terror (In-Home software, saw loose disk once..), Dungeons
Dragons and Other perils (XLent software), Fraktured Faebles (American
Eagle), Gelfling Adventure (Sierra), Palace in Thunderland (Micro Lab),
Quarterstaff (Simulated Environment Systems, before Infocom bought it),
Secret of Easter Island (Three Sigma), Seventh Sword of Mendor
(Grandslam), Sorcerer of Siva (Epyx), most Synergistic Software early
games, Spirit of Glenmore Castle (On Target), Troll's Tale (Sierra),
Zombies (Bram).  And my personal holy grail of hard to find games,
Dungeons of Despair (Wizardry Zero??).  There are very few references to
this latter one, though it is on the Giant Game Programmers list, and
from what I can scrounge, this may have been a Wizardry I beta demo,
released to the Apple user group community as the game was being made? 
Anyone know any more on this one?  and as for the other games listed
here, have any of you ever seen any of them, ever, anywhere?  Maybe I've
just had bad luck?  I suppose some of these, might not exist though I
know most do.  Anyhow, these all appear to be rarer than Akalabeth and
friends.  Oh yes, there's also the Dysan 3 1/2" Infocoms, and DEC
Rainbow ones...

 



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Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Brian the Fist]

> few of the early Synergistic releases. Interestingly enough, I have a
> manual for "Odyssey: The Compleat Apventure", but no diskette... I
> have never seen one.

http://deep.mshri.on.ca/people/feldman/vgmuseum/miscgame/odysseycompleat-disk.jpg

:)

-- 
--
Howard Feldman, Author of The Search for Freedom
A Computer Fantasy Role-Playing Game
Visit its Homepage at http://bioinfo.mshri.on.ca/people/feldman/


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Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Dan Chisarick]

Um, yeah that would be pretty uncommon.  For the sake of preserving 
such gems indefinitely, do you keep some sort of backup or disk image?

As an aside and on a totally unrelated note, I'm always happy to 
archive older Apple or Mac disks onto CD's or whatever for anyone 
gratis.  Just thought I'd throw that out there.

On Jan 6, 2004, at 5:35 AM, John Romero wrote:

Heh, speaking of. You know, I have some extremely unique
one-of-a-kind items.  Given to me personally by the legendary Nasir
Gebelli.  He gave me his Master disks for a couple games of his
(Neptune... And maybe Gorgon)..the disks he coded on.  I believe these
disks have his source code on them.
- john

The goal of the works of a genius' existance lies only in itself.


-Original Message-
From: Dan Chisarick [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 8:00 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value
I don't know if there's any pattern to what I will shell out for.  I
wouldn't pay much for Mt. Drash, Akalbeth or a shrinkwrapped
'saucer'
box.  I just can't see myself doing anything with them other than
putting them on a shelf.
I've tried the "Pokemon" strategy (gotta catch/get them all)
in trying
to get every LAST title from certain publishers (EA, Origin,
SSI, Muse,
Sir-Tech, etc.)  Even when I swore upside down I had every last EA
title ever made for the Apple II... *whack*.  One I didn't
know existed
pops up (its the add-on data disk for Earl Weaver Baseball if you're
wondering.  Wasn't about to buy a 15-game lot for the disk only,
either).  Seems there's ALWAYS one more.
Games that I've actually played I value highly.  Games I
might actually
play someday on an emulator I value highly.   I won't bother with
collecting 'variants' generally (but I will avoid most re-issues and
value packs with a few exceptions).  Truly ancient games are
good but
only if I'd actually play them (as above).
I've done some downright stupid things (once I bought an
Ultima II box
just for the 1st edition manual w/the typo + the card that
says "this
is one of the first copies..."  The disks were copies (didn't
care, had
a set), there was no map (I already have one), the box was beat (see
above), the card was good but THE MANUAL WAS A PHOTOCOPY.  I
couldn't
tell from the auction because the original was B&W.  But I
badly wanted
that card, and the seller "would get back to me" (never did).  So, I
was an idiot there and that was pretty much the end of
variants for me
(and yes I see the shiny 1st edition manual up right now).
I remember I bought Star Trek III & it came w/a movie ticket for
"Insurrection".  My friend chastised me because I'd never sell the
game, so why was I holding onto the ticket?  (No one here needs an
answer).  Its like the sick-o who says "Hey buy the
collector's edition
of (whatever) and get a $15 rebate".  Part of the rebate requires
cutting out a UPC symbol, etc.  Who would bother buying a
collector's
edition to chop it up?  Sigh.
What would I *really* love to have?  Source code.  To anything.  Old
Atari games.  Any Ultima (yes the original U1 is in basic), Empire,
Karateka, Paradroid, whatever.  Don't care.  Sure many games were
probably pure assembly, why bother with comments :), and most
ancient
source has likely deteriorated or simply lost.  To me, that would be
the ultimate find (and worth a few bucks, even though there's
really no
'original').
I'm surprised there aren't a bunch of incidents where classic game's
source code was taken home by its developers, just to have.
If that's
inaccurate, I've never heard of it.  Ok, not 100% accurate...
there are
rare cases like this:
http://killerbeesoftware.com/kbsgames/edee/empireseries.shtml

.. and I know people have acquired the rights to "Command HQ" and
"Global Conquest" (I bought the add-ons to both at one point) but I
would *really* love to see the code.
On Jan 5, 2004, at 9:09 PM, Brian the Fist wrote:

Aye karumba.  Looks like that Vic auction lasted just 3
hours too!  I fail to understand how people find these
things so fast.
Personally I can't afford to search eBay more than once a week..
Personally I don't believe in the collectibility of
disks/tapes, I go
for the manuals/boxes mostly - after all these are the true
'pieces of
art', a disk is a disk is a disk.  Heck, anyone can make a
disk from a
disk image of an old game, so big whoop right?

The value is an interesting issue though, which I have pondered
endlessly recently.  When it boils down to it, a rare game is worth
whatever someone is willing to pay for it, its that simple.  I have
seen
incredibly rare games (Scott Adams Gold Colelctor edition comes to
mind,
1000 total made I think) sell for much l

Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Stephane Racle]

Well, for one thing, some of the games (or variations) you mention
below were produced in extremely small quantities, and I doubt that
many copies survive to this day, except perhaps with the author or
publisher - and even then, not in all cases. Furthermore, not many
people know or care about them... If I recall, the sales figures for
the "rare" Akalabeth were in the tens of thousands, and similarly even
the rarest Infocoms sold many thousand copies (except perhaps for the
TRS-80 release of Zork for which I recall hearing that something like
1500 copies were sold - still, that's over a thousand). Contrast that
to perhaps 150-200 copies for Birth of the Phoenix (and that might be
pushing it!). As far as numbers, it's a lot rarer than Akalabeth. No
doubt someone has a copy stashed somewhere, but that doesn't mean it'll
show up on eBay (incidentally, I have a copy of that one stashed very
close by... :-) Of your list, besides BotP, I have also seen a few of
the early Synergistic releases. Interestingly enough, I have a manual
for "Odyssey: The Compleat Apventure", but no diskette... I have never
seen one.

Brian the Fist wrote:

  Incidentally, here's a few games I have never once seen (other than
perhaps a loose disk) on eBay, in several years of searching - no idea
why - Labyrinth of Crete (Scott Adams), Birth of the Phoenix, Black
Magic (Datasoft, US Boxed version), Coveted Mirror (Comprehend version),
Crypts of Terror (In-Home software, saw loose disk once..), Dungeons
Dragons and Other perils (XLent software), Fraktured Faebles (American
Eagle), Gelfling Adventure (Sierra), Palace in Thunderland (Micro Lab),
Quarterstaff (Simulated Environment Systems, before Infocom bought it),
Secret of Easter Island (Three Sigma), Seventh Sword of Mendor
(Grandslam), Sorcerer of Siva (Epyx), most Synergistic Software early
games, Spirit of Glenmore Castle (On Target), Troll's Tale (Sierra),
Zombies (Bram).  And my personal holy grail of hard to find games,
Dungeons of Despair (Wizardry Zero??).  There are very few references to
this latter one, though it is on the Giant Game Programmers list, and
from what I can scrounge, this may have been a Wizardry I beta demo,
released to the Apple user group community as the game was being made? 
Anyone know any more on this one?  and as for the other games listed
here, have any of you ever seen any of them, ever, anywhere?  Maybe I've
just had bad luck?  I suppose some of these, might not exist though I
know most do.  Anyhow, these all appear to be rarer than Akalabeth and
friends.  Oh yes, there's also the Dysan 3 1/2" Infocoms, and DEC
Rainbow ones...

  
One that immediately comes to mind is Destiny by Software Investments

Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Dan Chisarick]

Digging.  Ya know, I should be ashamed for not trying nearly hard 
enough.  2 of the very things I asked for and *poof* there's a URL.

Source code: Apple EA games have a similar feature.  You can find 
snippets of comments and assembly.  But its all over (lots and lots of 
titles, not just 1 or 2).

Command HQ and Global Conquest: Both.  Dan/Dani was brilliant.  Once in 
a great while I still light up Modem War.  It still ran unmodified on a 
1Ghz PIII, probably still works on a P-IV.  I have a copy of Mule that 
I will never ever sell.  It is in really good shape.  Awesome game.  
Interestingly, Dan(i) is not the only classic programmer to make a 
switch:

http://atari.games.free.fr/atarixl/authors/william%20mataga_e.htm

Jim: Thanks for the point about the code first, props second :)

Side note: I sent a developer who worked for Epyx an e-mail out of the 
blue about 18 months ago and got a rather friendly reply.  I should ask 
and see if he has any code laying around :)  (pressing my luck here I 
know, but gotta try.)



On Jan 6, 2004, at 2:47 AM, Jim Leonard wrote:

Dan Chisarick wrote:
What would I *really* love to have?  Source code.  To anything.  Old
Do some digging!  A friend and I got the original ASM code to Jumpman 
on the PC/PCjr just by asking -- check out the "jumpman lives!" 
project (google) to see a rewritten version based on that code that 
runs on modern machines.

Here's some more fun facts:  On the original PC version of Wizardry 
(the REALLY original one, with the drawing logo and music, and 
non-rounded graphics), do a raw sector dump of the entire disk and 
you'll see that there are 512-byte sectors filled with some of the 
original Pascal source code!  Laughed my ass off when I saw that -- 
the disk they sent to the duplicator obviously hadn't been formatted 
prior to writing the final game to it :-D

.. and I know people have acquired the rights to "Command HQ" and  
"Global Conquest" (I bought the add-ons to both at one point) but I  
would *really* love to see the code.
Because you love the games, or because both were written by the 
legendary Dan Buntin/Dani Berry?
--
Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
World's largest electronic gaming project:http://www.MobyGames.com/
A delicious slice of the demoscene:http://www.MindCandyDVD.com/
Various oldskool PC rants and ramblings:   http://www.oldskool.org/



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Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Brian the Fist]

> Not to pick nits, but the "true" piece of art is the game code itself.
> The extras -- manual, cloth map, etc. -- are what make it collectable,
> but the art is the entire package, which includes the game.  What good
> is the manual if you can't play?

Perhaps I wasn't clear, I meant 'art' in reference to art collecting
mentioned earlier.  Thus I was being quite literal - I collect 'box
art'.
 
> > On the other hand, there are some games I have been searching for for
> > years and have not seen EVER on eBay (or anywhere else), even once, thus
> > making them even more rare than Akalabeth or Mt. Drash technically.  And
> > when I come across one like this by some rare fluke, I may get it for as
> > low as $10 (maybe no one else wants it, who knows).
> 
> Like what, out of curiousity?

One that immediately comes to mind is Destiny by Software Investments
Plus.  Doriath was also incredibly difficult to find (an excellent C64
game if you've never tried it).  Got both cheap, but not until several
YEARS of searching eBay weekly.  Also Tower of Myraglen and trolls and
Tribulations.  Another C64 title, Spirit of the Stones, and Savage by
Rainbird/Microplay/Probe were also cheap but hard to find (not as hard
as the others though).  Also Talisman by Polarware.  Might and Magic I
pre-box version (was just sold as a huge manual with map and disks). 
While I may have seen an odd loose disk for one or two of these, I
rarely saw one appear complete and as soon as I did, I grabbed it and no
one else seemed to want them

Incidentally, here's a few games I have never once seen (other than
perhaps a loose disk) on eBay, in several years of searching - no idea
why - Labyrinth of Crete (Scott Adams), Birth of the Phoenix, Black
Magic (Datasoft, US Boxed version), Coveted Mirror (Comprehend version),
Crypts of Terror (In-Home software, saw loose disk once..), Dungeons
Dragons and Other perils (XLent software), Fraktured Faebles (American
Eagle), Gelfling Adventure (Sierra), Palace in Thunderland (Micro Lab),
Quarterstaff (Simulated Environment Systems, before Infocom bought it),
Secret of Easter Island (Three Sigma), Seventh Sword of Mendor
(Grandslam), Sorcerer of Siva (Epyx), most Synergistic Software early
games, Spirit of Glenmore Castle (On Target), Troll's Tale (Sierra),
Zombies (Bram).  And my personal holy grail of hard to find games,
Dungeons of Despair (Wizardry Zero??).  There are very few references to
this latter one, though it is on the Giant Game Programmers list, and
from what I can scrounge, this may have been a Wizardry I beta demo,
released to the Apple user group community as the game was being made? 
Anyone know any more on this one?  and as for the other games listed
here, have any of you ever seen any of them, ever, anywhere?  Maybe I've
just had bad luck?  I suppose some of these, might not exist though I
know most do.  Anyhow, these all appear to be rarer than Akalabeth and
friends.  Oh yes, there's also the Dysan 3 1/2" Infocoms, and DEC
Rainbow ones...

-- 
--
Howard Feldman, Author of The Search for Freedom
A Computer Fantasy Role-Playing Game
Visit its Homepage at http://bioinfo.mshri.on.ca/people/feldman/


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Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Jim Leonard]

Brian the Fist wrote:
Aye karumba.  Looks like that Vic auction lasted just 3
hours too!  I fail to understand how people find these things so fast. 
Personally I can't afford to search eBay more than once a week.. 
Personally I don't believe in the collectibility of disks/tapes, I go
for the manuals/boxes mostly - after all these are the true 'pieces of
art', a disk is a disk is a disk.  Heck, anyone can make a disk from a
disk image of an old game, so big whoop right?
Not if the disk is copy-protected.  And if nobody has cracked the game 
yet, you have yourself a piece of software without any actual software. 
 For me, complete means just that -- a complete working game I can pop 
into a computer and play it.

Not to pick nits, but the "true" piece of art is the game code itself. 
The extras -- manual, cloth map, etc. -- are what make it collectable, 
but the art is the entire package, which includes the game.  What good 
is the manual if you can't play?

On the other hand, there are some games I have been searching for for
years and have not seen EVER on eBay (or anywhere else), even once, thus
making them even more rare than Akalabeth or Mt. Drash technically.  And
when I come across one like this by some rare fluke, I may get it for as
low as $10 (maybe no one else wants it, who knows).
Like what, out of curiousity?

I agree with you about demand.  I've said it before, so forgive the 
repeat, but I have in my possession several pieces of software that are 
arguably rarer than Akalabeth simply because I know some of their 
history and have never seen them crop up anywhere else -- but because 
nobody WANTS them, they have no VALUE.  So, rare != value.  At least in 
my wacko collection :)
--
Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
World's largest electronic gaming project:http://www.MobyGames.com/
A delicious slice of the demoscene:http://www.MindCandyDVD.com/
Various oldskool PC rants and ramblings:   http://www.oldskool.org/



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Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Jim Leonard]

Lee K. Seitz wrote:
Most likely it's the annotated disassembly that you can find a link to
here:  http://www.atariage.com/2600/programming/.  Note that except
for Dragonfire, all the games listed are either modern homebrews or
disassemblies commented by someone other than the original programmer.
Agreed.  According to "Once Upon Atari", the documentary by Howard Scott 
Warshaw, some of the programmers interviewed said that comments were an 
afterthought.  One particular story recounts how a manager chastised a 
particular programmer for having no comments; later, in the final 
release of the game, the source code had a single comment in it saying 
"This comment is for (insert manager's name here)".  :)
--
Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
World's largest electronic gaming project:http://www.MobyGames.com/
A delicious slice of the demoscene:http://www.MindCandyDVD.com/
Various oldskool PC rants and ramblings:   http://www.oldskool.org/



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Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Jim Leonard]

Dan Chisarick wrote:
What would I *really* love to have?  Source code.  To anything.  Old  
Do some digging!  A friend and I got the original ASM code to Jumpman on 
the PC/PCjr just by asking -- check out the "jumpman lives!" project 
(google) to see a rewritten version based on that code that runs on 
modern machines.

Here's some more fun facts:  On the original PC version of Wizardry (the 
REALLY original one, with the drawing logo and music, and non-rounded 
graphics), do a raw sector dump of the entire disk and you'll see that 
there are 512-byte sectors filled with some of the original Pascal 
source code!  Laughed my ass off when I saw that -- the disk they sent 
to the duplicator obviously hadn't been formatted prior to writing the 
final game to it :-D

.. and I know people have acquired the rights to "Command HQ" and  
"Global Conquest" (I bought the add-ons to both at one point) but I  
would *really* love to see the code.
Because you love the games, or because both were written by the 
legendary Dan Buntin/Dani Berry?
--
Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
World's largest electronic gaming project:http://www.MobyGames.com/
A delicious slice of the demoscene:http://www.MindCandyDVD.com/
Various oldskool PC rants and ramblings:   http://www.oldskool.org/



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RE: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[John Romero]

Heh, speaking of. You know, I have some extremely unique
one-of-a-kind items.  Given to me personally by the legendary Nasir
Gebelli.  He gave me his Master disks for a couple games of his
(Neptune... And maybe Gorgon)..the disks he coded on.  I believe these
disks have his source code on them.

- john


The goal of the works of a genius' existance lies only in itself.


> -Original Message-
> From: Dan Chisarick [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 8:00 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value
> 
> 
> I don't know if there's any pattern to what I will shell out for.  I  
> wouldn't pay much for Mt. Drash, Akalbeth or a shrinkwrapped 
> 'saucer'  
> box.  I just can't see myself doing anything with them other than  
> putting them on a shelf.
> 
> I've tried the "Pokemon" strategy (gotta catch/get them all) 
> in trying  
> to get every LAST title from certain publishers (EA, Origin, 
> SSI, Muse,  
> Sir-Tech, etc.)  Even when I swore upside down I had every last EA  
> title ever made for the Apple II... *whack*.  One I didn't 
> know existed  
> pops up (its the add-on data disk for Earl Weaver Baseball if you're  
> wondering.  Wasn't about to buy a 15-game lot for the disk only,  
> either).  Seems there's ALWAYS one more.
> 
> Games that I've actually played I value highly.  Games I 
> might actually  
> play someday on an emulator I value highly.   I won't bother with  
> collecting 'variants' generally (but I will avoid most re-issues and  
> value packs with a few exceptions).  Truly ancient games are 
> good but  
> only if I'd actually play them (as above).
> 
> I've done some downright stupid things (once I bought an 
> Ultima II box  
> just for the 1st edition manual w/the typo + the card that 
> says "this  
> is one of the first copies..."  The disks were copies (didn't 
> care, had  
> a set), there was no map (I already have one), the box was beat (see  
> above), the card was good but THE MANUAL WAS A PHOTOCOPY.  I 
> couldn't  
> tell from the auction because the original was B&W.  But I 
> badly wanted  
> that card, and the seller "would get back to me" (never did).  So, I  
> was an idiot there and that was pretty much the end of 
> variants for me  
> (and yes I see the shiny 1st edition manual up right now).
> 
> I remember I bought Star Trek III & it came w/a movie ticket for  
> "Insurrection".  My friend chastised me because I'd never sell the  
> game, so why was I holding onto the ticket?  (No one here needs an  
> answer).  Its like the sick-o who says "Hey buy the 
> collector's edition  
> of (whatever) and get a $15 rebate".  Part of the rebate requires  
> cutting out a UPC symbol, etc.  Who would bother buying a 
> collector's  
> edition to chop it up?  Sigh.
> 
> What would I *really* love to have?  Source code.  To anything.  Old  
> Atari games.  Any Ultima (yes the original U1 is in basic), Empire,  
> Karateka, Paradroid, whatever.  Don't care.  Sure many games were  
> probably pure assembly, why bother with comments :), and most 
> ancient  
> source has likely deteriorated or simply lost.  To me, that would be  
> the ultimate find (and worth a few bucks, even though there's 
> really no  
> 'original').
> 
> I'm surprised there aren't a bunch of incidents where classic game's  
> source code was taken home by its developers, just to have.  
> If that's  
> inaccurate, I've never heard of it.  Ok, not 100% accurate... 
> there are  
> rare cases like this:
> 
> http://killerbeesoftware.com/kbsgames/edee/empireseries.shtml
> 
> .. and I know people have acquired the rights to "Command HQ" and  
> "Global Conquest" (I bought the add-ons to both at one point) but I  
> would *really* love to see the code.
> 
> 
> On Jan 5, 2004, at 9:09 PM, Brian the Fist wrote:
> 
> > Aye karumba.  Looks like that Vic auction lasted just 3 
> > hours too!  I fail to understand how people find these 
> things so fast. 
> > Personally I can't afford to search eBay more than once a week.. 
> > Personally I don't believe in the collectibility of 
> disks/tapes, I go 
> > for the manuals/boxes mostly - after all these are the true 
> 'pieces of 
> > art', a disk is a disk is a disk.  Heck, anyone can make a 
> disk from a 
> > disk image of an old game, so big whoop right?
> >
> > The value is an interesting issue though, which I have

Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Stephen Emond]

I quite enjoyed Space Taxi... hard to believe it's 20 years old now...

Steve

- Original Message - 
From: "Hugh Falk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 10:39 PM
Subject: RE: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value


> In order for publishers or developers to be singled out on GOTCHA, they
> have to have a certain number nominees and awards for their games.  As
> much as I like MUSE, their only games nominated were Castle Wolfenstein
> and Robotwar.  Wolfenstein was the only winner.  Believe it or not,
> there is a group of people doing the voting...not just me :-(
> 
> Hugh


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RE: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Hugh Falk]

In order for publishers or developers to be singled out on GOTCHA, they
have to have a certain number nominees and awards for their games.  As
much as I like MUSE, their only games nominated were Castle Wolfenstein
and Robotwar.  Wolfenstein was the only winner.  Believe it or not,
there is a group of people doing the voting...not just me :-(

Hugh

-Original Message-
From: Lee K. Seitz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 8:52 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

Dan Chisarick stated:
>
>I've tried the "Pokemon" strategy (gotta catch/get them all) in trying

>to get every LAST title from certain publishers (EA, Origin, SSI, Muse,

>Sir-Tech, etc.)

Does anyone have a list of all the titles published by these
companies?  Particularly Muse.  (I've found two of their bare manuals
so far.)  My Google search came up empty and I see Muse isn't listed
in the publishers at GOTCHA.  (Any plans there, Hugh?)

>What would I *really* love to have?  Source code.  To anything.  Old  
>Atari games.  Any Ultima (yes the original U1 is in basic), Empire,  
>Karateka, Paradroid, whatever.  Don't care.  Sure many games were  
>probably pure assembly, why bother with comments :), and most ancient  
>source has likely deteriorated or simply lost.

The source code for a few Atari 2600 games has turned up.  I remember
an old source code print out for the unreleased Ewok game was
auctioned off on eBay by the original programmer a year or two ago.
There's also a guy with some Vectrex source code print outs who has
some interest in selling them, but he ticked off the collector
community, so getting them from him is neither easy nor cheap.

In the computer realm, you can buy the source code to Empire directly
from Walter Bright at http://www.classicempire.com/.

-- 
Lee K. Seitz
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Hugh Falk]

That reminds me...I have a printout of the source code to "Dungeon" for
the PDP-11.  It's printed out on 15" line printer paper.  According to
the first page it was printed on Jan 26, 1981.  I don't know who printed
it...except I think it was for somebody named "Javier", and it was
definitely for user [81,1].  :-)  

It stands about 2" high (hundreds of pages).  I bought it on eBay years
agoC.E., maybe this was the one you saw?  Here's an excerpt from the
second page:

THIS IS THE FIRST (AND LAST) SOURCE RELEASE OF THE PDP-11 VERSION OF
DUNGEON.

PLEASE NOTE THAT DUNGEON HAS BEEN SUPERCEDED BY THE GAME ZORK(TM).  THE
FOLLOWING IS AN EXTRACT FROM THE NEW PRODUCT ANNOUNCEMENT FOR ZORK IN
THE SEPTEMBER, 1980 ISSUE OF THE RT-11 SIG NEWSLETER...

Hugh

-Original Message-
From: C.E. Forman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 8:01 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

> What would I *really* love to have?  Source code.  To anything.  Old
> Atari games.  Any Ultima (yes the original U1 is in basic), Empire,
> Karateka, Paradroid, whatever.  Don't care.  Sure many games were
> probably pure assembly, why bother with comments :), and most ancient
> source has likely deteriorated or simply lost.  To me, that would be
> the ultimate find (and worth a few bucks, even though there's really
no
> 'original').

I recall seeing a mainframe printout of the source for Colossal Cave
(some
version of it) on eBay years ago.  Stood about half a foot high, I
forget
what they asked for shipping.  But I remember it because it's the only
source code I've ever seen for sale.

Dave Lebling posted a few snippets of the ZIL code from a couple of
Infocom
games somewhere.


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Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Brian the Fist]

found it.  Adventure for atari 2600 disassembled and well-commented
here:

http://www.sproat.net/jeremy/atari2600/adventur.asm

Very cool.  It still never ceases to amaze me how they fit such an
awesome game into 4K.  It is simply incredible.

-- 
--
Howard Feldman, Author of The Search for Freedom
A Computer Fantasy Role-Playing Game
Visit its Homepage at http://bioinfo.mshri.on.ca/people/feldman/


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Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Brian the Fist]

Here we go, should be self-explanatory.  If I find adventure (a much
more interesting game...) I'll send that too

Dan Chisarick wrote:
> 
> 1) Yes I'd like to see it
> 2) Is it the original code or is it annotated disassembly made by
> someone else?
> 

;From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Harry Dodgson)
;Newsgroups: alt.sources
;Subject: Re: Atari 2600 programming
;Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
;Date: 27 Jan 89 17:10:19 GMT
;   Atari Combat Game
; suspected RAM addresses
;
; E0-E3 score pattern offsets
; DE-DF score pattern calculation temporaries
; A1-A2 scores
; D2score conversion temporary
;
; 9B-9C sound pitch storage
; B5-BA lo-res indirect addresses
; DAhi-res patterns
; D6-D7 colors
SEI  
CLD  
LDX  #FF
TXS  
LDX  #5D
JSR  J15BD ;zero out $00 thru $A2
LDA  #10
STA  SWCHB+1
STA  88
JSR  J11A3
MLOOP   JSR  NWSCR ;$1014
JSR  J1157
JSR  J1572
JSR  J12DA
JSR  J1444
JSR  J1214
JSR  J12A9
JSR  J11F2
JSR  J1054
JMP  MLOOP
;
NWSCR   INC  86 ;   initial blanking and retrace start
STA  HMCLR
LDA  #02
STA  WSYNC
STA  VBLANK
STA  WSYNC
STA  WSYNC
STA  WSYNC
STA  SYNC
STA  WSYNC
STA  WSYNC
LDA  #00
STA  WSYNC
STA  SYNC
LDA  #2B
STA  TIM64T
RTS  
;
J1054   LDA  #20
STA  B4
STA  WSYNC
STA  HMOVE
B105C   LDA  INTIM
BNE  B105C
STA  WSYNC
STA  CXCLR
STA  VBLANK
TSX  
STX  D3 ;   Save stack pointer
LDA  #02
STA  CTRLPF
LDX  DC
B1070   STA  WSYNC
DEX  
BNE  B1070
LDA  DC
CMP  #0E
BEQ  B10CD
LDX  #05
LDA  #00
STA  DE
STA  DF
J1083   STA  WSYNC
LDA  DE
STA  PF1
LDY  E2
LDA  L15C5,Y
AND  #F0
STA  DE
LDY  E0
LDA  L15C5,Y
AND  #0F
ORA  DE
STA  DE
LDA  DF
STA  PF1
LDY  E3
LDA  L15C5,Y
AND  #F0
STA  DF
LDY  E1
LDA  L15C5,Y
AND  87
STA  WSYNC
ORA  DF
STA  DF
LDA  DE
STA  PF1
DEX  
BMI  B10CD
INC  E0
INC  E2
INC  E1
INC  E3
LDA  DF
STA  PF1
JMP  J1083
;
B10CD   LDA  #00 ;  Inner Display Loop
STA  PF1
STA  WSYNC  
LDA  #05
STA  CTRLPF
LDA  D6
STA  COLUP0
LDA  D7
STA  COLUP1
B10DF   LDX  #1E
TXS ;   Very Sneaky - set stack to missle registers
SEC  
LDA  A4
SBC  B4
AND  #FE
TAX  
AND  #F0
BEQ  B10F2
LDA  #00
BEQ  B10F4
B10F2   LDA  BD,X
B10F4   STA  WSYNC ;End of 1 line
STA  GRP0
LDA  A7
EOR  B4
AND  #FE
PHP ;   This turns the missle 1 on/off
LDA  A6
EOR  B4
AND  #FE
PHP ;   This turns the missle 0 on/off
LDA  B4
BPL  B110C
EOR  #F8
B110C   CMP  #20
BCC  B1114
LSR  A
LSR  A
LSR  A
TAY  
B1114   LDA  A5
SEC  
SBC  B4
INC  B4
NOP  
ORA  #01
TAX  
AND  #F0
BEQ  B1127
LDA  #00
BEQ  B1129
B1127   LDA  BD,X
B1129   BIT  82
STA  GRP1
BMI  B113B
LDA  (B5),Y
STA  PF0
LDA  (B7),Y
STA  PF1
LDA  (B9),Y
STA  PF2
B113B   INC  B4
LDA  B4
EOR  #EC
BNE  B10DF
LDX  D3 ;   Restore stack pointer
TXS  
STA  ENAM0
STA  ENAM1
STA  GRP0
STA  GRP1
STA  GRP0
STA  PF0
STA  PF1
STA  PF2
RTS  
;
J1157   LDA  SWCHB
LSR  A
BCS  B1170
LDA  #0F
STA  87
LDA  #FF
STA  88
LDA  #80
STA  DD
LDX  #E6
JSR  J15BD ;zero out $89 thru $A2
BEQ  B11D0
B1170   LDY  #02
LDA  DD
AND  88
CMP  #F0
BCC  B1182
LDA  86
AND  #30
BNE  B1182
LDY  #0E
B1182   STY  DC
LDA  86
AND  #3F
BNE  B1192
STA  89
INC  DD
BNE  B1192
STA  88
B1192   LDA  SWCHB
AND  #02
BEQ  B119D
STA  89
BNE  B11F1
B119D   BIT  89
BMI  B11F1
INC  80
J11A3   LDX  #DF
B11A5   JSR  J15BD
LDA  #FF
STA  89
LDY  80
LDA  L17D8,Y
STA  A3
EOR  #FF
 

Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Lee K. Seitz]

>On Jan 5, 2004, at 11:12 PM, Brian the Fist wrote:
>
>> Not exactlywhat you are talking about, but I have the 6507 assembler
>> source for Atari 2600 Combat, with a bit of comments, if anyone's
>> interested (think I have Atari 2600 Adventure too somewhere..)

Dan Chisarick stated:
>
>1) Yes I'd like to see it
>2) Is it the original code or is it annotated disassembly made by 
>someone else?

Most likely it's the annotated disassembly that you can find a link to
here:  http://www.atariage.com/2600/programming/.  Note that except
for Dragonfire, all the games listed are either modern homebrews or
disassemblies commented by someone other than the original programmer.

-- 
Lee K. Seitz
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Lee K. Seitz]

Dan Chisarick stated:
>
>I've tried the "Pokemon" strategy (gotta catch/get them all) in trying  
>to get every LAST title from certain publishers (EA, Origin, SSI, Muse,  
>Sir-Tech, etc.)

Does anyone have a list of all the titles published by these
companies?  Particularly Muse.  (I've found two of their bare manuals
so far.)  My Google search came up empty and I see Muse isn't listed
in the publishers at GOTCHA.  (Any plans there, Hugh?)

>What would I *really* love to have?  Source code.  To anything.  Old  
>Atari games.  Any Ultima (yes the original U1 is in basic), Empire,  
>Karateka, Paradroid, whatever.  Don't care.  Sure many games were  
>probably pure assembly, why bother with comments :), and most ancient  
>source has likely deteriorated or simply lost.

The source code for a few Atari 2600 games has turned up.  I remember
an old source code print out for the unreleased Ewok game was
auctioned off on eBay by the original programmer a year or two ago.
There's also a guy with some Vectrex source code print outs who has
some interest in selling them, but he ticked off the collector
community, so getting them from him is neither easy nor cheap.

In the computer realm, you can buy the source code to Empire directly
from Walter Bright at http://www.classicempire.com/.

-- 
Lee K. Seitz
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Dan Chisarick]

1) Yes I'd like to see it
2) Is it the original code or is it annotated disassembly made by 
someone else?

I'll have to look for that ZIL code too...

On Jan 5, 2004, at 11:12 PM, Brian the Fist wrote:

Not exactlywhat you are talking about, but I have the 6507 assembler
source for Atari 2600 Combat, with a bit of comments, if anyone's
interested (think I have Atari 2600 Adventure too somewhere..)
What would I *really* love to have?  Source code.  To anything.  Old
Atari games.  Any Ultima (yes the original U1 is in basic), Empire,
Karateka, Paradroid, whatever.  Don't care.  Sure many games were
probably pure assembly, why bother with comments :), and most ancient
source has likely deteriorated or simply lost.  To me, that would be
the ultimate find (and worth a few bucks, even though there's really 
no
'original').

I'm surprised there aren't a bunch of incidents where classic game's
source code was taken home by its developers, just to have.  If that's
inaccurate, I've never heard of it.  Ok, not 100% accurate... there 
are
rare cases like this:
--
--
Howard Feldman, Author of The Search for Freedom
A Computer Fantasy Role-Playing Game
Visit its Homepage at http://bioinfo.mshri.on.ca/people/feldman/
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Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Brian the Fist]

Not exactlywhat you are talking about, but I have the 6507 assembler
source for Atari 2600 Combat, with a bit of comments, if anyone's
interested (think I have Atari 2600 Adventure too somewhere..)
 
> What would I *really* love to have?  Source code.  To anything.  Old
> Atari games.  Any Ultima (yes the original U1 is in basic), Empire,
> Karateka, Paradroid, whatever.  Don't care.  Sure many games were
> probably pure assembly, why bother with comments :), and most ancient
> source has likely deteriorated or simply lost.  To me, that would be
> the ultimate find (and worth a few bucks, even though there's really no
> 'original').
> 
> I'm surprised there aren't a bunch of incidents where classic game's
> source code was taken home by its developers, just to have.  If that's
> inaccurate, I've never heard of it.  Ok, not 100% accurate... there are
> rare cases like this:

-- 
--
Howard Feldman, Author of The Search for Freedom
A Computer Fantasy Role-Playing Game
Visit its Homepage at http://bioinfo.mshri.on.ca/people/feldman/


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Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[C.E. Forman]

> What would I *really* love to have?  Source code.  To anything.  Old
> Atari games.  Any Ultima (yes the original U1 is in basic), Empire,
> Karateka, Paradroid, whatever.  Don't care.  Sure many games were
> probably pure assembly, why bother with comments :), and most ancient
> source has likely deteriorated or simply lost.  To me, that would be
> the ultimate find (and worth a few bucks, even though there's really no
> 'original').

I recall seeing a mainframe printout of the source for Colossal Cave (some
version of it) on eBay years ago.  Stood about half a foot high, I forget
what they asked for shipping.  But I remember it because it's the only
source code I've ever seen for sale.

Dave Lebling posted a few snippets of the ZIL code from a couple of Infocom
games somewhere.


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Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Dan Chisarick]

I don't know if there's any pattern to what I will shell out for.  I  
wouldn't pay much for Mt. Drash, Akalbeth or a shrinkwrapped 'saucer'  
box.  I just can't see myself doing anything with them other than  
putting them on a shelf.

I've tried the "Pokemon" strategy (gotta catch/get them all) in trying  
to get every LAST title from certain publishers (EA, Origin, SSI, Muse,  
Sir-Tech, etc.)  Even when I swore upside down I had every last EA  
title ever made for the Apple II... *whack*.  One I didn't know existed  
pops up (its the add-on data disk for Earl Weaver Baseball if you're  
wondering.  Wasn't about to buy a 15-game lot for the disk only,  
either).  Seems there's ALWAYS one more.

Games that I've actually played I value highly.  Games I might actually  
play someday on an emulator I value highly.   I won't bother with  
collecting 'variants' generally (but I will avoid most re-issues and  
value packs with a few exceptions).  Truly ancient games are good but  
only if I'd actually play them (as above).

I've done some downright stupid things (once I bought an Ultima II box  
just for the 1st edition manual w/the typo + the card that says "this  
is one of the first copies..."  The disks were copies (didn't care, had  
a set), there was no map (I already have one), the box was beat (see  
above), the card was good but THE MANUAL WAS A PHOTOCOPY.  I couldn't  
tell from the auction because the original was B&W.  But I badly wanted  
that card, and the seller "would get back to me" (never did).  So, I  
was an idiot there and that was pretty much the end of variants for me  
(and yes I see the shiny 1st edition manual up right now).

I remember I bought Star Trek III & it came w/a movie ticket for  
"Insurrection".  My friend chastised me because I'd never sell the  
game, so why was I holding onto the ticket?  (No one here needs an  
answer).  Its like the sick-o who says "Hey buy the collector's edition  
of (whatever) and get a $15 rebate".  Part of the rebate requires  
cutting out a UPC symbol, etc.  Who would bother buying a collector's  
edition to chop it up?  Sigh.

What would I *really* love to have?  Source code.  To anything.  Old  
Atari games.  Any Ultima (yes the original U1 is in basic), Empire,  
Karateka, Paradroid, whatever.  Don't care.  Sure many games were  
probably pure assembly, why bother with comments :), and most ancient  
source has likely deteriorated or simply lost.  To me, that would be  
the ultimate find (and worth a few bucks, even though there's really no  
'original').

I'm surprised there aren't a bunch of incidents where classic game's  
source code was taken home by its developers, just to have.  If that's  
inaccurate, I've never heard of it.  Ok, not 100% accurate... there are  
rare cases like this:

http://killerbeesoftware.com/kbsgames/edee/empireseries.shtml

.. and I know people have acquired the rights to "Command HQ" and  
"Global Conquest" (I bought the add-ons to both at one point) but I  
would *really* love to see the code.

On Jan 5, 2004, at 9:09 PM, Brian the Fist wrote:

Aye karumba.  Looks like that Vic auction lasted just 3
hours too!  I fail to understand how people find these things so fast.
Personally I can't afford to search eBay more than once a week..
Personally I don't believe in the collectibility of disks/tapes, I go
for the manuals/boxes mostly - after all these are the true 'pieces of
art', a disk is a disk is a disk.  Heck, anyone can make a disk from a
disk image of an old game, so big whoop right?
The value is an interesting issue though, which I have pondered
endlessly recently.  When it boils down to it, a rare game is worth
whatever someone is willing to pay for it, its that simple.  I have  
seen
incredibly rare games (Scott Adams Gold Colelctor edition comes to  
mind,
1000 total made I think) sell for much less than they should.  And I've
seen rare, but not impossible to find, games gor for absurd amounts
(some of you folk here were the buyers in fact!).  I sill can't believe
the original Starcross and Suspended regualarly go for $300 and up for
example, they're just not that rare.  I've seen dozens on eBay over the
last couple years.  And come on, almost $200 for Origin's re-release of
Ultima I??  I'm almost ashamed to see people pay that much for it
(though that won't stop me from selling the extra one I have soon :) ).
On the other hand, there are some games I have been searching for for
years and have not seen EVER on eBay (or anywhere else), even once,  
thus
making them even more rare than Akalabeth or Mt. Drash technically.   
And
when I come across one like this by some rare fluke, I may get it for  
as
low as $10 (maybe no one else wants it, who knows).

I have sold things and received far less than a guy did the week
before.  Is it because I'm in Canada?  Who knows.  I've also found the
level of detail in the description of the item and its condition can
have a big impact on the final price of a rare item

Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[C.E. Forman]

It's possible, I will have to check.  This 
looks like an earlier version of the ZUG map.  Like I said, once I dig mine 
out I'll be able to describe it better.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Stephane Racle 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 9:18 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash 
  cassette and market value
  OK, now you have me curious. I acquired this about 10 years 
  ago... I assumed it was some early ZUG map, but maybe not. Is this similar to 
  the "map" you are talking about? In any case, does anyone recognize it? It's 
  got a 1981 - Kendall Station address... There's a whole other side to it with 
  the rest of the Zork I world.C.E. Forman wrote:
  


Here's what Brian told me when I 
asked:
 
There was no map. It was a cheap-looking 5 1/2 x 11 folded booklet, 
printedby some "instant press" outfit, with a typewriter typeface on 
maybe 12 whitepages, and a light blue cover. It bears the original 
Faneuil Hall company address.Probably less than 50 were ever 
sold.
The "map" he mentions refers to a large 
fold-out map I'd seen in a German collector's stash, which I've never seen 
since.  I had assumed this was from the original version of Zork but I 
guess not, so there's another early version of some sort.  I remember 
the map was professional quality, not some self-done job.  We took it 
to a print shop and made me a full-size Xerox of it, I just have to 
find the darn thing.
 

  - 
  Original Message - 
  From: 
  Stephane Racle 
  To: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
      Sent: 
      Monday, January 05, 2004 7:17 PM
  Subject: 
  Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value
  
  
So, to revisit a discussion, how do the rest of you try to estimate
the market value of these types of games?  What would, say, the first
release of Zork -- the PDP-11 version -- be worth?

Brian Moriarty estimates that less than 50 of these were ever sold.  Look at
his closing prices, factor in that it's an actual game rather than a
commemorative giveaway, major historical value... I'd say at least $2-3K,
likely more.
  On a slightly tangential note, does anybody even 
  have a picture of this, or know what it 
includes?
  
  

  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  

Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[C.E. Forman]

Here's what Brian told me when I 
asked:
 
There was no map. It was a cheap-looking 5 1/2 x 11 folded booklet, 
printedby some "instant press" outfit, with a typewriter typeface on maybe 
12 whitepages, and a light blue cover. It bears the original Faneuil Hall 
company address.Probably less than 50 were ever sold.
The "map" he mentions refers to a large fold-out 
map I'd seen in a German collector's stash, which I've never seen since.  I 
had assumed this was from the original version of Zork but I guess not, so 
there's another early version of some sort.  I remember the map was 
professional quality, not some self-done job.  We took it to a print shop 
and made me a full-size Xerox of it, I just have to find the darn 
thing.
 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Stephane Racle 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 7:17 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash 
  cassette and market value
  
  So, to revisit a discussion, how do the rest of you try to estimate
the market value of these types of games?  What would, say, the first
release of Zork -- the PDP-11 version -- be worth?

Brian Moriarty estimates that less than 50 of these were ever sold.  Look at
his closing prices, factor in that it's an actual game rather than a
commemorative giveaway, major historical value... I'd say at least $2-3K,
likely more.
  On a slightly tangential note, does anybody even have 
  a picture of this, or know what it includes?

Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[C.E. Forman]

Aagh.  Classic mistake.  Searching on "Drash" but not Ultima for the VIC.
I'm modifying my automated searches right now.

- Original Message - 
From: "Stephen Emond" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 7:12 PM
Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value


> Yup, $765 is kinda pricey. Anyone have $100 and a time machine?
>
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3064724973&category=3544
>
> I'll let you all have a moment of silence to kick yourselves...
>
> Steve
>
> PS - As for the NEW owner of the Drash I do believe I saw him around here
> somewhere...
>
>
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Edward Franks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Software Collectibles Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 2:58 PM
> Subject: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value
>
>
> >
> > Urgle.
> > <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
> > ViewItem&item=3068542018&category=3545&rd=1>
> >
> > Now we have a whopping two data points ;-) for just the cassette.
> > $865 and $765.  Trying to estimate or guesstimate the price of the
> > complete game is making my head hurt.  I'm still stuck in the mindset
> > that $250 for a complete game is an insane amount.
> >
> > So, to revisit a discussion, how do the rest of you try to estimate
> > the market value of these types of games?  What would, say, the first
> > release of Zork -- the PDP-11 version -- be worth?  This is really the
> > hard part of being a dealer of collectibles.  What is your thought
> > process in determining the market value of a collectible?
> >
> > -- 
> >
> > Edward Franks
> >
> >
> > --
> > This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to
> > the swcollect mailing list.  To unsubscribe, send mail to
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect'
> > Archives are available at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
> >
>
>
> --
> This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to
> the swcollect mailing list.  To unsubscribe, send mail to
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect'
> Archives are available at:
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Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Brian the Fist]

Aye karumba.  Looks like that Vic auction lasted just 3
hours too!  I fail to understand how people find these things so fast. 
Personally I can't afford to search eBay more than once a week.. 
Personally I don't believe in the collectibility of disks/tapes, I go
for the manuals/boxes mostly - after all these are the true 'pieces of
art', a disk is a disk is a disk.  Heck, anyone can make a disk from a
disk image of an old game, so big whoop right?

The value is an interesting issue though, which I have pondered
endlessly recently.  When it boils down to it, a rare game is worth
whatever someone is willing to pay for it, its that simple.  I have seen
incredibly rare games (Scott Adams Gold Colelctor edition comes to mind,
1000 total made I think) sell for much less than they should.  And I've
seen rare, but not impossible to find, games gor for absurd amounts
(some of you folk here were the buyers in fact!).  I sill can't believe
the original Starcross and Suspended regualarly go for $300 and up for
example, they're just not that rare.  I've seen dozens on eBay over the
last couple years.  And come on, almost $200 for Origin's re-release of
Ultima I??  I'm almost ashamed to see people pay that much for it
(though that won't stop me from selling the extra one I have soon :) ). 
On the other hand, there are some games I have been searching for for
years and have not seen EVER on eBay (or anywhere else), even once, thus
making them even more rare than Akalabeth or Mt. Drash technically.  And
when I come across one like this by some rare fluke, I may get it for as
low as $10 (maybe no one else wants it, who knows).

I have sold things and received far less than a guy did the week
before.  Is it because I'm in Canada?  Who knows.  I've also found the
level of detail in the description of the item and its condition can
have a big impact on the final price of a rare item, through
experimentation.  I believe that most collectors have somewhat limited
cash flow, and so I have never seen any single game sell for over $1000
that I can recall, and I don't know if it ever would.  I used to limit
myself to $5-10 per game, and now that I've filled the 'low-hanging
fruit' so to speak, and cleaned out all the local stores, I have raised
my spending on rarer items, and maybe some of you have done the same. 
There is the issue of 'what if I never see this again' of course, and so
its sometimes wiser to pay a little more up front - if you find it again
for cheaper you can always sell it and cut your losses.  Personally, I
would probably be willing to pay around $500 for a complete Drash game,
but I'm sure there's many who'd pay even more.  I'd have to say about
the same for a PDP Zork.  I just can't justify spending more than that
on a 'hobby'.

Interestingly, I have found trading used DVDs and Books much more
predictable - most go for roughly the same price in a reliable way,
there is not nearly as much uncertainty as in the game area. 

Stephen Emond wrote:
> 
> Yup, $765 is kinda pricey. Anyone have $100 and a time machine?
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3064724973&category=3544
> 
> I'll let you all have a moment of silence to kick yourselves...
> 
> Steve
> 
> PS - As for the NEW owner of the Drash I do believe I saw him around here
> somewhere...

-- 
--
Howard Feldman, Author of The Search for Freedom
A Computer Fantasy Role-Playing Game
Visit its Homepage at http://bioinfo.mshri.on.ca/people/feldman/


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Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Stephane Racle]

  
So, to revisit a discussion, how do the rest of you try to estimate
the market value of these types of games?  What would, say, the first
release of Zork -- the PDP-11 version -- be worth?

  
  
Brian Moriarty estimates that less than 50 of these were ever sold.  Look at
his closing prices, factor in that it's an actual game rather than a
commemorative giveaway, major historical value... I'd say at least $2-3K,
likely more.
  


On a slightly tangential note, does anybody even have a picture of
this, or know what it includes?

Re: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value

[Stephen Emond]

Yup, $765 is kinda pricey. Anyone have $100 and a time machine?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3064724973&category=3544

I'll let you all have a moment of silence to kick yourselves...

Steve

PS - As for the NEW owner of the Drash I do believe I saw him around here
somewhere...



- Original Message - 
From: "Edward Franks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Software Collectibles Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 2:58 PM
Subject: [SWCollect] Mt. Drash cassette and market value


>
> Urgle.
>  ViewItem&item=3068542018&category=3545&rd=1>
>
> Now we have a whopping two data points ;-) for just the cassette.
> $865 and $765.  Trying to estimate or guesstimate the price of the
> complete game is making my head hurt.  I'm still stuck in the mindset
> that $250 for a complete game is an insane amount.
>
> So, to revisit a discussion, how do the rest of you try to estimate
> the market value of these types of games?  What would, say, the first
> release of Zork -- the PDP-11 version -- be worth?  This is really the
> hard part of being a dealer of collectibles.  What is your thought
> process in determining the market value of a collectible?
>
> -- 
>
> Edward Franks
>
>
> --
> This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to
> the swcollect mailing list.  To unsubscribe, send mail to
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect'
> Archives are available at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
>


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