RE: D3 - Universe
You MIGHT be able to use ODBC from UV, but ODBC with D3 has never been great - depending on volumes, there is always OSFI (on D3) being mapped to a UV type 19 file ? Ross Ferris Stamina Software Visage an Evolution in Software Development -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Barry Brooks Sent: Tuesday, 27 April 2004 8:59 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: D3 - Universe Hi everyone I have a client who is running D3 and Universe on seperate servers. They wish to be able to directly access D3 files from Universe. Does anyone know the best (or any) way to do this. D3 and Universe are running on Linux Redhat 9. Barry Brooks -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.667 / Virus Database: 429 - Release Date: 23/04/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.667 / Virus Database: 429 - Release Date: 23/04/2004 -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: [UV] Problem reactivating select list
Why not write a little paragraph that does the select, then ED, which you execute ? Ross Ferris Stamina Software Visage an Evolution in Software Development -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Hester Sent: Tuesday, 27 April 2004 9:12 AM To: U2 Users Discussion List Subject: Re: [UV] Problem reactivating select list [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: John what is wrong with this approach loop readnext id else done = true until done do list-1 = id repeat select list to mylist loop readnext id else done = true until done do execute ed :file: :id repeat then before, after, between the two loops you can do whatever you wanted to do Will That's close to what I did originally. The problem is that ED needs to think that it is reading from a select list for the X command to work. If I process the select list outside of ED, ED thinks it is working against a single item and the only way you can exit the middle of a list is with crtlC. -John -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.667 / Virus Database: 429 - Release Date: 23/04/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.667 / Virus Database: 429 - Release Date: 23/04/2004 -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: How far can U2 scale?
I would imagine in any of the scenarios that has been given, if some form of local (client side) intelligence is employed, coupled with a non-persistent connection scheme to the central database, that the numbers that have been quoted here (2-10,000) could easily be multiplied by a factor of 5-10 . but of course you may hit the wall in terms of saleability of web servers (web farms), network topology infrastructure etc. I think it would be fair to say, within the parameters that others have outlined (massively large databases vs. massively large user populations) that there are no practical limits to mv scalability. I recall hearing a story about when Tim Holland migrated Pick Open Architecture to the Sequoia machine. Similar concerns were raised about the saleability of pick, but it soon became obvious that it was the underlying Unix that would be pushed Given the historic position that mv allows you to do more with less, I don't think we should be too surprised by this. Ross Ferris Stamina Software Visage an Evolution in Software Development -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ray Wurlod Sent: Saturday, 24 April 2004 9:05 AM To: U2 Users Discussion List Subject: RE: How far can U2 scale? There are quite a few sites running upwards of 2000 users in my region (Asia Pacific). The model is many small users (such as insurance brokers, accountants, tax agents, etc.) having dial-in access. One site is licensed for 3300 users, and sustains a load over 3000 users most of the day with acceptable response metrics. Strictly two tier (one tier really). -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.665 / Virus Database: 428 - Release Date: 21/04/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.665 / Virus Database: 428 - Release Date: 21/04/2004 -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: GUI as nice as character-based
Any objection to me chasing that small 95% portion of the market in the meantime ? I figure I've been in the winning 5% end of the niche for too long :-) Ross Ferris Stamina Software Visage an Evolution in Software Development -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Craig Bennett Sent: Tuesday, 20 April 2004 4:14 PM To: U2 Users Discussion List Subject: Re: GUI as nice as character-based just ask WordPerfect and Lotus (or DOS devotees or dumb terminal vendors or Eudora users or Netscape shareholders or vb6 developers). And, just what's wrong with these things?They're still available. And work And are used. Not a thing Bruce I wasn't suggesting there was. But there was a time when Lotus and Wordperfect where the behemoths which Excel and Word struggled to catch. I was hoping Ross would recognise the possiblity that Windows might go the same way despite current market domination. Craig -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.661 / Virus Database: 424 - Release Date: 19/04/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.661 / Virus Database: 424 - Release Date: 19/04/2004 -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: GUI as nice as character-based
Strangely enough, one of the early iterations of our product was implemented in Delphi even today that is what the middleware layer is written in. Have had a play with Macromedia to - you CAN do some nifty stuff with the latest MX stuff, BUT I believe there are a few (non-trivial) obstacles that would need to be overcome - but the scripting IS powerful ! Ross Ferris Stamina Software Visage an Evolution in Software Development -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Leach Sent: Tuesday, 20 April 2004 9:22 PM To: 'U2 Users Discussion List' Subject: RE: GUI as nice as character-based I was hoping Ross would recognise the possiblity that Windows might go the same way despite current market domination. So write your clients in Delphi - Delphi for Windows native Delphi for .Net Delphi (Kylix) for Linux and D2J - produces Java bytecode from Delphi. Or if you want browser based cross platform - is anyone on the list using Macromedia flash to talk to U2 through web services? I haven't had the chance to experiment with that yet :-( but AFAIK flash is available as a plug in on Windows, Linux and Mac and it should be possible to do some pretty good interactive stuff using that combination ... Brian This email was checked on leaving Microgen for viruses, similar malicious code and inappropriate content by MessageLabs SkyScan. DISCLAIMER This email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the named recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information. In the event of any technical difficulty with this email, please contact the sender or [EMAIL PROTECTED] Microgen Information Management Solutions http://www.microgen.co.uk -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.661 / Virus Database: 424 - Release Date: 19/04/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.661 / Virus Database: 424 - Release Date: 19/04/2004 -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: What client platform do YOU use (Parallel to GUI thread)
Jon, The .edu may say it all, as this is a market we dont operate in, and I understand that many on this list do. I wonder if the same would be true in the .mil or even .gov space ? I think Brian gave a reasonable insight into the different mindset required for GUI. I imagine that your Vendor may have taken a 'minimalist' approach to their GUI Migration(?), I'm suspicious of any technique/product that tries to drive CUI GUI at the same time UNLESS the GUI implementation can be independently 'tweaked' optimised - which means that you really end up with 2 development streams. Perhaps it is just that we couldn't master this :-), but back when insert V word was a FAT TE, OUR GUI results were so obviously NOT windows that the product never made it out the door ! You said you had 30% Macs - can you tell me how many devices this is, and are other 70% Wintel ? Ross Ferris Stamina Software Visage an Evolution in Software Development -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jon Wells Sent: Tuesday, 20 April 2004 10:47 PM To: U2 Users Discussion List Subject: Re: What client platform do YOU use (Parallel to GUI thread) Ross, We do have Mac's here, around 30%. We have some Linux desktops as well. We even have at least one Mac with Linux loaded. Currently our Mac's run Comet to telnet into our system. The GUI our vendor expects us to use is Wintegrate based. It is absolutely terrible for heads down data entry and it does not work on Mac's. The interface that H R Block has uses standard heads down keystrokes, handles type-ahead well, while enjoying the benefits of a GUI. The contrast to our GUI is, well... I'm jealous. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.661 / Virus Database: 424 - Release Date: 19/04/2004 -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: What client platform do YOU use (Parallel to GUI thread)
It's not a performance issue, so much as the UI itself. I dont believe that you can automatically 'translate' from 24 x 80 to GUI and end up with a reasonable result of necessity it may look 'screen scraped', UNLESS the GUI UI is tweaked Ross Ferris Stamina Software Visage an Evolution in Software Development -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Debster Sent: Tuesday, 20 April 2004 11:39 PM To: U2 Users Discussion List Subject: RE: What client platform do YOU use (Parallel to GUI thread) dunno about thatThere are many that can flip based on the users profile and as long as the underlying code is written to accomodate it I have never seen a problem in performance --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.661 / Virus Database: 424 - Release Date: 19/04/2004 -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: GUI as nice as character-based
No, 'Thin client' by most definitions I've seen would imply 'no need to install any additional software' examples of 2 'thin' client implementations would be Citrix, and a browser based application. A fat client requires 'lots of stuff' - exe's, jar's etc - to be shipped to the client Contrast this to Citrix (where the only thing transmitted to the client is screen update images, as the code actually executes on the Citrix box) or Browser (a relatively small page is sent) Also see maybe http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/t/thin_client.html Ross Ferris Stamina Software Visage - an Evolution in Software Development -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Johnson Sent: Wednesday, 21 April 2004 12:18 AM To: U2 Users Discussion List Subject: Re: GUI as nice as character-based Isn't that what thin clients are for? To hold the app on the client end and only convey data. - Original Message - From: Schalk van Zyl [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: U2 Users Discussion List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 6:51 AM Subject: Re: GUI as nice as character-based Dawn and all, Another aspect of GUI, which we sure have to consider, is data communication lines. Our operation is spread over 1000 kilometres, and sending GUI screens back and forth will certainly clog our lines. Except when you make use of local intelligence. The volume of data sent to paint a GUI screen must certainly be a factor of 50 more than with CUI. (?) Schalk On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:02:31 +0100, Brian Leach [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To go back to Dawn's original post - Dawn, I've been writing GUI applications for UniVerse for about 15 years now. Some have worked, some have - well - been learning experiences. You shouldn't really compare GUI and character based. Why? Because then you inevitably start to think of the GUI in character based terms - the arrangement of controls on a form, or the addition of some buttons. That's my main beef with 'intelligent' terminals - they obscure the real picture. GUI is not about what you put on the screen. It's about the flow of information, and how that flow best suits the application in question. Data entry is part of that flow, but only part: character based is good for some data entry and for administration, but a good application is also about navigation, culture and the ease of finding information again. Here are two very different examples: I did a freight forwarding package for a company that previously was entirely paper based. They took a - let's say flexible - approach to rules, validations, pricing, descriptions etc - and wanted to keep that. Providing a traditional system, with a nailed down design and entry screens just wouldn't work for them. In fact I tried that first as a prototype, and it didn't. Not in their culture. So I designed a system that worked the same way as their forms. Every page matched the standard forms they used, except that information automatically infilled, was sent to their billing systems, collated to their work flow for follow ups and diarising etc ... But all invisibly. What they 'saw' were the forms they had used throughout. Even the validation was fairly soft, and consisted mainly of highlighting things that were suspect. Annoying popups were kept to an absolute minimum, text and codes expanded directly from typing, and generally the whole thing designed to look and feel as unobtrusive as possible: nothing to interrupt their work flow. I couldn't have done that with a character based system because it couldn't have represented the compexity of some of the forms (try doing an airway bill or customs declaration form and you'll see what I mean). As a more traditional example, I have a project management system that I both designed and use. This is based on drill down principles, allowing me to track projects, modules, scheduled and tasks. Here the advantage of a GUI is persistence and workflow: because a GUI allows me to have multiple windows open modelessly, I can track down from the projects or work lists into the individual tasks whilst keeping the lists (heirarchically arranged) still visible, so I don't have to keep closing down windows or reselecting: generally much more efficient. I can also display more, since most of the time I am interested in viewing information rather than changing it - and at the viewing stage I can use smaller fonts to display things that when amended need larger screen estate. The diary is a case in point: I can use colours and smaller fonts to show different entries in a way that a green screen application wouldn't accommodate. And naturally I keep a document path, so any documents/project plans/applications or other materials connected with a task can be opened directly on my desktop. I have seen good GUIs
RE: GUI as nice as character-based
Dawn, Citrix Server would break DLG (Dawn's Law of GUI) rule 4 anyway, as you would need to pre-install Citrix client software on most platforms. BTW Dawn, do you have a mathematic proof of DLG ? Just wondering, 'cause just like the Great Date Debate, many may be happy to 'bend' these rules because they don't apply to the environment they use ? For example, Citrix has MANY other advantages, especially in larger organizations, when it comes to issues like securing the desktop, and centralized updates etc. In Wyatt's case, he can simply install SmartTerm (oops, Windows only product, breaks rule 1 - hmm, but with Citrix his client 'can' be a Mac ?!!? Your proof could be 'interesting' ?!?!) onto his Server, and it then requires no pre-installation. He can have a link on a web page to download the Citrix client software does this 'break' your 'rules', or does it fit ? Of course Citrix Server/Terminal Server has an important place in larger enterprises, addressing issues like security, desktop lockdown, patch/update management, software distribution etc - which transcend DLG Also with your rule revision below, as with the original DLG, you still haven't included the J word, which I believe is an implicit (and understood) requirement for DLG !?! Ross Ferris Stamina Software Visage an Evolution in Software Development -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dawn M. Wolthuis Sent: Tuesday, 20 April 2004 5:14 AM To: 'U2 Users Discussion List' Subject: RE: GUI as nice as character-based Ah, I should add or modify one of the requirements -- when I indicated that there needs to be no setup on the client, I should put that in the client tier and consider citrix servers to be application clients, of sorts. So, for my purposes (though not for everyone), a citrix server is not an option. 1. Client Tier (no setup) 2. Http Server Tier (could include app server, such as tomcat or EJB container such as Eclipse or WebSphere) 3. Database Server Tier I'll clarify the requirements to add no more tiers. --dawn Dawn M. Wolthuis Tincat Group, Inc. www.tincat-group.com Take and give some delight today. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Buffington, Wyatt Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 1:57 PM To: U2 Users Discussion List Subject: RE: GUI as nice as character-based We have been using a product called SmarTerm from Esker. It allows us to displays screen close to GUI that is easily configureable by the end user with little to no programming. It allows for HotSpots which appear as a button on the screen which the user can click on. Buttons are a list of things that a user can do that are mundane or repetitive, these can save wear and tear on the old fingers. It has a GUI pop up calendar that can be invoked from the host and the date returned back to the host. The user can change the colors on the screen to match their preferences. Email addresses and http links are highlighted differently and can be clickable. You can create you our macros that can be run from a Button. We use triggers to change our screen colors depending on which account we are in. If anyone is interested in a screen shot of what can be done. Email me offline at [EMAIL PROTECTED] We are currently using Version 11.0.5 on both PCs and Citrix Servers. I am also in the process of testing 12.1 Beta. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Johnson Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 1:45 PM To: U2 Users Discussion List Subject: Re: GUI as nice as character-based Dawn: Good luck in your search for this holy grail. Lemme know if such a silver bullet is found. I've been hunting for years. Mark Johnson Original Message - From: Dawn M. Wolthuis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 2:17 PM Subject: GUI as nice as character-based I haven't gotten through all of the postings in the GUI thread as yet, but am working on the question of how to write a GUI that is as good as a green screen from the perspective of folks currently using a green screen application. I saw hints at that, but nothing that tackled it from the standpoint of being able to use any tools on the market today to accomplish this (no need to retain databasic code, for example). What could be used to actually replace, completely, the character screens? Requirements: 0) work with U2 as multiuser databases 1) Be able to use any Windows, new Mac (unix) or Linux client 2) Have graphically attractive colorful screens, looking enough like standard GUIs (M$, in particular) that users would understand the use of icons, etc. 3) Respond to keystrokes by users -- not only to the click of a submit button 4) Require no preparation of the client computers in advance of using the software, likely directing user to a web page. 5) type ahead can be done so that the user is not waiting constantly
What client platform do YOU use (Parallel to GUI thread)
Anyone up for a little straw poll ? A recurrent theme that I see played out in this related forums is the well, does it run on MAC or Linux on the Desktop question. Often, when asked, the people that raised the issue don't have either platform in their installation - it is merely a standard question that they feel compelled to ask ?!? Maybe it is just me - I don't live in the big smoke - but (to date) I simply haven't seen any significant demand for workstation support (GUI or CUI) outside of windows. SO, I think to myself, I wonder what the REAL numbers are - I mean theory is one thing, but how do the numbers stack up in the real world? How many people are there that actually do use, or WANT to use (I'm talking management want here, not the gee, if I had my way kind of thing) non-windows platforms on the desktop ?. I'm happy to kick it off. Of the (application) systems that we have installed over the years, discounting green screens, we have deployed to probably around 1,500 workstation devices -- all Windows (even back as far as 3.11) I've had the Mac option raised twice - I remember each one clearly ! Once at a printers (who are 'big' MAC users traditionally) for 3 devices, and once at a distribution company where the owner had a MAC at home he wanted to use remotely that's it - potential market 4 out of around 1,500. Any other takers ? I need to point out that I'm not LOOKING for exceptions, merely the state of the desktop, so if you only have Wintel desktops, please step up be counted - and if there is a vast ocean of hidden MAC and Linux desktops out there, please identify yourself Ross Ferris Stamina Software Visage an Evolution in Software Development 1) Be able to use any Windows, new Mac (unix) or Linux client --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.659 / Virus Database: 423 - Release Date: 15/04/2004 -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: GUI as nice as character-based
I also think the world is crying out for a cross platform application browesr (same idea as a web browser, but for running applications defined using XML and downloaded from a server. Not designed for browsing websites and hence with different security requirements (and permission to do more things on the client)). Perhaps you need to look at XAML/Avalon, which will be part of Windows Longhorn by the time it BYTES, the various opensource CLT projects should be up away, and you may have your path. We've started to play with this as part of the overall evolutionary path of our product (Clif won't let me mention Viságe unless I put an [AD] in the subject) Ross Ferris Stamina Software Visage - an Evolution in Software Development -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Craig Bennett Sent: Tuesday, 20 April 2004 11:32 AM To: U2 Users Discussion List Subject: Re: GUI as nice as character-based Dawn, how blue sky are we talking? I am hugely impressed with wxWidgets (http://www.wxwidgets.org) a C++ GUI framework for developing applications on Windows, X, Mac, OS/2. I also think the world is crying out for a cross platform application browesr (same idea as a web browser, but for running applications defined using XML and downloaded from a server. Not designed for browsing websites and hence with different security requirements (and permission to do more things on the client)). Want to colaborate to write one with wxWidgets? :) This does violate your rule about zero install, but I can't think of a real zero install technology ... once you consider web browser dependencies, java dependencies, flash player dependencies, citrix dependencies, terminal emulation dependencies etc there is always *something* you need to have or fiddle with on the client (otherwise we'd all be shipping PCs with no O/S installed). Craig -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.659 / Virus Database: 423 - Release Date: 15/04/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.659 / Virus Database: 423 - Release Date: 15/04/2004 -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: GUI as nice as character-based
H, That could exclude Java, as I don't think the JVM ships these days with XP, does it ? Ross Ferris Stamina Software Visage an Evolution in Software Development -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 20 April 2004 1:57 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: GUI as nice as character-based In a message dated 4/19/2004 6:36:11 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This does violate your rule about zero install, but I can't think of a real zero install technology ... once you consider web browser dependencies, java dependencies, flash player dependencies, citrix dependencies, terminal emulation dependencies etc there is always *something* you need to have or fiddle with on the client (otherwise we'd all be shipping PCs with no O/S installed). Craig You can't really have a zero client footprint. I'd rephrase Dawn's statement to say that perhaps you are using client software that the average person would ALREADY have installed such as a browser, a jpg viewer, a mp3 player, etc. Will -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.659 / Virus Database: 423 - Release Date: 15/04/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.659 / Virus Database: 423 - Release Date: 15/04/2004 -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: Database decoupling (Was: Future of U2)
Yep - guilty as charged, we have a product that can help in terms of web technology, though the main focus of Viságe is really as an application development platform. The points that you have raised are (obviously) important but forward thinking ? C'mon, these are features that have been around for 20 years ! When was the last time that anyone here had a new prospect get excited about the idea of background processing ? Or drool at the thought of audit files ? Maybe things are different on that side of the Pacific, but my recent experience tells me that unless I can provide the eye candy that people EXPECT these days, new sales are harder to make every year. Obviously I understand your sentiment - we have a comprehensive green screen application ourselves, and like many in this group we have a hard core of users that LIKE the green screen, and think that we are wasting our time on all of this GUI stuff and they are right - for THEM ! But, NEW sales take a LOT of things for granted - audit files, background processing, and even GUI ! to name a few and so forward thinking for me now has to include taking steps to make sure we continue to make sales into the future :-) Ross Ferris Stamina Software Visage - an Evolution in Software Development -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, 18 April 2004 8:21 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Database decoupling (Was: Future of U2) And of course it's not self-serving to state that a web presence is itself necessary in order to be forward thinking evil grin. I mean since you offer a product that does that Now to me, forward thinking might involve more robust use of log files, audit files, transactions and rollback, background processing, process management but then I'm just old school. Will In a message dated 4/17/2004 6:05:29 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Not saying all businesses are this way. But I'm saying I don't think that is where most of the traditional multi-value market is focused. BUT, unless we help our customers get there - OR find new customers that WANT to get there, we (as a market) run the risk that OUR existing customers will loose market share be consumed by more forward thinking competitors, which in turn may mean that we too are out of a career ! Ross Ferris Stamina Software Visage - an Evolution in Software Development -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.658 / Virus Database: 421 - Release Date: 9/04/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.658 / Virus Database: 421 - Release Date: 9/04/2004 -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: GUI from Mv code Re: Crystal Reports
Embedded responses to (hopefully) add contextual reference -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bruce Nichol Sent: Sunday, 18 April 2004 3:20 PM To: U2 Users Discussion List Subject: Re: GUI from Mv code Re: Crystal Reports Goo'day, At 10:17 18/04/04, Will replied to: In a message dated 4/17/2004 4:16:06 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: A key factor that makes CUI non-portable to GUI is the embedded Input and Print statements in the code. I respectfully disagree that this is key. Aren't we forgetting what Ross (and others) offer in Visage (and whatever)? AFIK, Visage offers users a GUI in a TOTAL WINDOWS LOOK AND FEEL/BROWSER environment, without having to do a total rewrite, but a rewrite none the less, re-using some portions, perhaps, of existing code. Visage seems to be more than a user interface. It's also supposedly (sorry, Ross, I've got no experience in Visage) a much less involved NEW development environment [Ross Ferris] Coming FROM an mv environment, with an existing DB design and application code, I think you are right in saying that Viságe is less involved, and simpler than people expect. As you would expect (hope?), it is ALL of the things that you DON'T HAVE TO DO that make developing in Viságe fun, and easy - whole swags of code that you don't have to write (or copy) to extract information from related files, or to correctly update all of the multi-valued items in an association (including the new dict item you added 5 minutes ago) ... they not only add up, they MULTIPLY the benefits! Other MV so-called GUI approaches, (AccuTerm and wIntegrate scripts, for example) are offering the user a GUI with an almost-modern Windows look and feel, but without the bells and whistles, and are offering a GUI by applying Band-Aids to existing code. I really don't think that's a development environment.I don't think new development is covered by this approach. If we were all developing new applications, and we could afford it, I reckon we would all jump at Visage... Or some such. [Ross Ferris] Please line up take a number :-) The key here may be can you afford NOT to use a tool like Visage ! We try spin EVERY new development request into Viságe these days from our green screen client base - 1 less program we need to convert later, we end up with a nicer look, and the customer likes what he sees so much, he is willing to fund conversion of existing screens, so the exercise is not only self funding, but profitable ! I'd hazard a guess that the cost of new development in Visage, together with the cost of Visage, would come out less (Ross??) than the cost of the same level of development to the same level of total user interface in our known MV Terminal Emulation environs. The per-user outgoing cost of a MV TE capable of supporting the TE scripts (as opposed to the cost of IE6!!) is, IMHO, the crippling factor, here. Especially in the larger sites where everybody would be forced into using the GUI-able TE instead of the lower-cost/freebie ones. [Ross Ferris] That would certainly be the case, especially when you also take into account the REDUCTION of DB licences required to support your user population ! (or for existing sites the ability to increase the effective user population, without a corresponding increase in DB licences). This is because Viságe uses web technology for data transport, and operates with a non-persistent connection model, so you are only connected to the backend database to do things like reading records, and executing server code. Our active dictionary code reduction techniques mean that you can churn out programs in record time. Most people have their first GUI screens operating in under an hour (that includes product installation - most of this time is spent setting up dictionaries!) What we're all (all of us software developers, that is) trying to do is maintain a public acceptance for our EXISTING software. Sales = Public Acceptance.Ross is out in front with Visage, right up there with Windows products, because he's been able to absorb the costs of development over a period of time, developing Visage and developing/redeveloping his applications using it as he goes. OK, he's paid more for his version of Visage but he got his version earlier than the rest of us; he and his people have far more experience with it than the rest of us; it was written for their express requirements; they know what its' capabilities are; they know its' shortcomings; they know what's planned for its' future, and he's selling licences to it to help in recovering his outlay. Most of the rest of us are looking at it, at its cost, at the cost of redeveloping using it, and going with it, or hoping that the lower initial outlay of providing TE scripts will suffice, or .. [Ross Ferris] If we WERE only developing Viságe for our needs I'd have a very happy
RE: GUI from Mv code Re: Crystal Reports
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, 18 April 2004 10:18 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: GUI from Mv code Re: Crystal Reports Then some of the validation (two field interactions) should be relegated to the On.SUBMIT part of the program, etc. FWIW you do NOT want to wait until SUBMIT ! In Visage, as soon as you have all of the parts of a multi-part key validation (2 or more) the validation is performed - and of course you don't have to write ANY code for this to happen (all part of our active code reduction technology :-) Likewise if you have cascading relationships like : Pick a Country the State Box re-populates Pick a state and the Town Box re-populates Change the country the State Town boxes clear Are achieved without code . did I mention that we extended the dictionary structure, so that this sort of relationship is visible ? --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.659 / Virus Database: 423 - Release Date: 15/04/2004 -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: PI Open is going away
The one I was introduced to was using I types to enable processing a file in a single pass through. You would : LIST FILE WITH (whatever criteria were needed) I-type-dict The effect was that you would pass through the file once, apply the selection criteria, and if it passed you could then perform transaction processing within the I-type, which never actually returned a value. So, when you ran a benchmark against, say, an Ultimate, which was forced to : EXECUTE SELECT FILE WITH (whatever criteria were needed) (or maybe this was done with a PROC - IIRC the Ultimate had a PASSLIST construct ? THEN you would have to re-read the file do the processing with something like OK = 1 LOOP READNEXT ID ELSE OK = 0 WHILE OK do work REPEAT The result, on a non-trivial file, more than compensated for the high order byte inversion under Information :-) Ross Ferris Stamina Software Visage an Evolution in Software Development -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Clifton Oliver Sent: Sunday, 18 April 2004 11:39 AM To: U2 Users Discussion List Subject: Re: PI Open is going away Which trick was that? He had so many. On Apr 17, 2004, at 15:08, Ross Ferris wrote: Probably. Never knew the guy ... but I thought the trick was kinda neat, and I've still been known to use variants to this day :-) -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.659 / Virus Database: 423 - Release Date: 15/04/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.659 / Virus Database: 423 - Release Date: 15/04/2004 -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: GUI from Mv code Re: Crystal Reports
Will, Yes, we DO persist record locks, so a Visage application can happily co-exist with its green screen cohorts. I know that everyone says that this is impossible with a non-persistent application they are wrong ! Sorry, I'm not going to publish the code here :-) suffice to say that BECAUSE we have had the luxury of time to develop Viságe, we have overcome MANY problems that face this type of technology - and this isn't even the most difficult ! Many of our competitors have inherent problems with their approaches that I don't think even THEY know they have yet (sorry, I'm not going to give THEM a heads up either :-). One day they will go SPLAT, and find that they are going to have to take more than a few steps backwards (been there, done that), if not a TOTAL system re-tool 'tis the nature of the beast. As our sales spiel goes, one of the biggest advantages you get with Viságe is all of the mistakes we have made along the way. You are left with a distillate that is very pure, efficient, and potent :-) Ross Ferris Stamina Software Visage - an Evolution in Software Development -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, 19 April 2004 5:22 AM To: U2 Users Discussion List Subject: Re: GUI from Mv code Re: Crystal Reports In a message dated 4/18/2004 11:23:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: That would certainly be the case, especially when you also take into account the REDUCTION of DB licences required to support your user population ! (or for existing sites the ability to increase the effective user population, without a corresponding increase in DB licences). This is because Viságe uses web technology for data transport, and operates with a non-persistent connection model, so you are only connected to the backend database to do things like reading records, and executing server code. Hold on here amigo. Are you saying you do not persist record locks? You know what I mean. Explain how you do this. Will -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.659 / Virus Database: 423 - Release Date: 15/04/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.659 / Virus Database: 423 - Release Date: 15/04/2004 -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
[ot] RE: Database decoupling (Was: Future of U2)
Perhaps you should check out our Viságe product :-) Give yourself a modern visual drag drop interface (ie: drag items from your UV dictionary definition drop them on a form - inherit edits etc from dictionary, but you can override if necessary), that uses internet technologies (like HTTP for data transport, XML for data abstraction etc) and has features NOW that Microsoft are talking about adding to Visual Studio next year (integrated BI/Data warehouse capabilities leveraging SQL server capabilities - though Viságe.BIT will happily work with data from your U2 database) We've also taken the liberty of extending the mv model in a few areas (like supporting 100 levels of nesting, which will map every real world complex XML document I've seen, with room to grow!), and our active code reduction philosophy (powered by Snippet Technology) means that the amount of real code that has to be written for a complex system is minimal - and system systems can be codeless now ! Drop by www.stamina.com.au and follow the Visage links if you are interested, or drop us a line and we can send you out a test drive CD if you like. Ross Ferris Stamina Software Visage - an Evolution in Software Development -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Daly, Mark Sent: Saturday, 17 April 2004 3:10 AM To: 'U2 Users Discussion List' Subject: RE: Database decoupling (Was: Future of U2) Well no, not really. I was thinking more in the line of New application development that would like to provide the ability to utilize modern Internet protocols. A web presence would be included in that - but was actually furthest from my mind. B2B interaction for example. Or even internal application integration. Being able to publish web services etc. etc. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, April 16, 2004 11:28 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Database decoupling (Was: Future of U2) In a message dated 4/15/2004 4:37:24 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Without this ability, I see no reason why anyone would commence new application development on the U2 platform. Since you will always require another application server (Websphere, Tomcat, Bea, Jboss, etc.) to talk to the U2 server, that would in-turn interact with the database. I'm sure Mark you mean New application development that must have a web presence. Unless you feel that all application development must have a web presence. Will -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.658 / Virus Database: 421 - Release Date: 9/04/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.658 / Virus Database: 421 - Release Date: 9/04/2004 -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: UV to Text Conversion Standard?
Best answer: don't use sub-values. They're evil, anyway. I've been somewhat surprised over recent years by the number of software companies that not only use SVM, but go down a level or 2 from that ! If you are using the standard inbuilt facilities of ANY of the mv systems, they have never coped well with SVM - but I wouldn't necessarily say they are evil. Indeed some of the ways I've seemed them used to map real world problems simplify the issues at hand, and can help render better performance. To NOT use multi-values in an MV database to a certain extent diminishes one of the major arguments for using mv in the first place, doesn't it ? You are already compromising your design (perhaps) because of your choice of tool. Perhaps we should all capitulate start to use flat CSV files ? Ross Ferris Stamina Software Visage an Evolution in Software Development -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Geoffrey Mitchell Sent: Saturday, 17 April 2004 4:06 AM To: U2 Users Discussion List Subject: Re: UV to Text Conversion Standard? To my knowledge, no. Not in Universe anyway. I *think* (from the docs, I've never played with it) that UniData has a way to map sub-values to ODBC/JDBC, but UniVerse does not. Multivalues work fine, but it doesn't go any lower than that. Best answer: don't use sub-values. They're evil, anyway. On Fri, 2004-04-16 at 12:48, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thank you, but what is the exact method to do this? I have never seen a view of SVM level data that actually works. Using ODBC or any other tool And by works I mean that it understands the relationship of the SVM data to the VM data and the relationship of that to the AM data and properly processes table-in-a-table configurations for editing, etc. It's one thing to use BY-EXP to understand VM level tables, but can you really use some tool to understand SVM embedded data at that second table level? Will In a message dated 4/16/2004 1:03:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Will, I'm not sure if this is what you're asking but all it does is create a virtual view of the data into 1nf tables that Excel (in this case) sees and understands. Note: I have only done this with UniData and D3 and I know UniVerse does it a little differently. -- Colin Alfke Calgary, Alberta Canada Just because something isn't broken doesn't mean that you can't fix it Stu Pickles -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, April 16, 2004 9:26 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: UV to Text Conversion Standard? In a message dated 4/15/2004 12:52:51 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You can use the UniVerse ODBC Driver to pull the data from UniVerse to Excel, using correct dictionaries UniVerse will normalise the data and sort out the VM and SVM for you. Jonathan can you give a exact method for sorting of SVM's within Universe using an ODBC (or really any tool). I am not aware of this Thank you Will -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- Geoffrey Mitchell 314-684-1062 Programmer/Analyst [EMAIL PROTECTED] Knights Direct --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.658 / Virus Database: 421 - Release Date: 9/04/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.658 / Virus Database: 421 - Release Date: 9/04/2004 -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: PI Open is going away
Don't forget to mention the Drumheller(? Drumhella?) Trick ! Ross Ferris Stamina Software Visage an Evolution in Software Development -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Results Sent: Saturday, 17 April 2004 4:45 AM To: U2 Users Discussion List Subject: Re: PI Open is going away PI/Open-ers, I'd like to write a 'memorial' article for Database Trends acknowledging the PI and Prime contributions to the community as a whole. Would a few of you be willing to write up some brief paragraphs on things like: So I said to Mike, we'll call them I Descriptors and he said it would never catch on... In other words, I'd like to collect some personal stories about how these functions came about. If I get enough (and enough variety) I'll present it to my editors. Contributions to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Sincerely, Charles Barouch www.KeyAlly.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.658 / Virus Database: 421 - Release Date: 9/04/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.658 / Virus Database: 421 - Release Date: 9/04/2004 -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: Crystal Reports
H, We spent 3 years developing a product (CrystalLynx) that allowed us to work with Crystal - it automatically normalized the data for you, so I think it would be fair to say that we used it for a while - and you are right, I don't want to go back (to Crystal). Typical square peg/round hole stuff, because it DIDN'T understand mv all that well - or maybe it was just us ! and I surely didn't like ODBC performance (and reliability on D3 platforms). CR is obviously a good product - #1 in it's field, but these days there ARE products available that work with mv data in a native format, and give CR a good run for it's money ! Ross Ferris Stamina Software Visage an Evolution in Software Development -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Randall Sent: Saturday, 17 April 2004 5:41 AM To: 'U2 Users Discussion List' Subject: RE: Crystal Reports Crystal is indeed a very fine product. It is a banded report writer with a multitude of programmability. Multivalued data is indeed a pain in the neck. Normalize the data 1st and you'll find Crystal a joy to use with output, features and polish that MV can't come close to. The 'problems' that your users are facing can be addressed with Crystal code (VB syntax or Crystal's scripting syntax). After using it a while, you'll never want to go back... Mike R. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Johnson Sent: Friday, April 16, 2004 2:51 PM To: U2 Users Discussion List Subject: Crystal Reports One of my clients wants to connect Crystal Reports to their UD database to apparently give greater access to the data that they sometimes deem as hidden and only accessable through me. This client converted to Great Plains 6 weeks ago (SQL based) and their CR experts were struggling with duplicating some of the more mundane reports that already exist in UD. A monthly sales tax summary (by jurisdiction) took the GP guy 3 days futzing with CR using GP's data. How much trouble are they going to get in trying to use MV'd data from the UD system (ODBC) if they have so much trouble with more 'normalized' data. Everyone seems to think that CR is a magic pill and once attached to a SQL database, the sophisticated reports simply roll off. I'm trying to strongly propose a data warehouse concept whereby the day's sales data gets exported and updated into their prior application for the sake of the multitude of existing, proven reports in MV. If these guys took 3 days for a simple tax report, how can CR fabricate temporary tables for the sake of these consolidated sophisticated MV reports? I'm just interested in hearing of some experiences. This client is too stubborn to go back from GP and may even disregard their entire MV system completely. I really have nothing to lose if I insult them. Thanks in advance. -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.658 / Virus Database: 421 - Release Date: 9/04/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.658 / Virus Database: 421 - Release Date: 9/04/2004 -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: PI Open is going away
Probably. Never knew the guy ... but I thought the trick was kinda neat, and I've still been known to use variants to this day :-) Ross Ferris Stamina Software Visage an Evolution in Software Development -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Clifton Oliver Sent: Sunday, 18 April 2004 5:13 AM To: U2 Users Discussion List Subject: Re: PI Open is going away That would be John 60,000 lines of PMA assemby code and only 3 comments Drumheller. -- Regards, Clif On Apr 17, 2004, at 6:15, Ross Ferris wrote: Don't forget to mention the Drumheller(? Drumhella?) Trick ! -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.658 / Virus Database: 421 - Release Date: 9/04/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.658 / Virus Database: 421 - Release Date: 9/04/2004 -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: Productivity metrics
Do the metrics take the impact of tools into account ? Some of the examples I've looked at seem to include all lines of code produced from an environment like Delphi or VB, even though 80% of this code is produced from the IDE. I'm sure the same would be true of tools like SB+, and certainly with our Viságe product, though in both cases this would be offset to a degree by the effort involved in smartening up dictionaries Many of the things that historically required hard code can now be reduced to parameter settings for an object - how do you measure this ? Or the flow through effect of changing an output conversion from, say, D2/ to D4/, in an active dictionary environment. The productivity impact is obvious - but how do you quantify that sort of gain ? especially when it may be tempered by the fact that other parts of an organization/system may still be using old fashioned, hand crafted PickBasic ? (I don't really want/need an answer to this, as I think the results could be skewed to show anything, and the time taken to gain the result/insight could be longer than the time taken to get the job done ?!?) Ross Ferris Stamina Software Visage - an Evolution in Software Development -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lee Leitner Sent: Thursday, 15 April 2004 11:14 PM To: U2 Users Discussion List Subject: Re: Productivity metrics Sounds about right IMO. On Thu, 15 Apr 2004, Bob Dubery wrote: Which'd put MV Basic at at about 35 LOC/FP. Interestingly that's not far off the score I arrived at by gut feel. -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- Lee J. Leitner, Ph.D. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.leitner.org/~leitnerl The world can only be grasped by action, not by contemplation. The hand is the cutting edge of the mind. -- Jacob Bronowski V.13.0 --- -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.658 / Virus Database: 421 - Release Date: 9/04/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.658 / Virus Database: 421 - Release Date: 9/04/2004 -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: UniVerse vs Progress Performance
Probably need to see Progress running on the IBM under AIX - or UV on Intel chip with same OS to make significant comparison; even neglecting just WHAT is going on under the hood could have been 400+ users doing 'nothing' Ross Ferris Stamina Software Visage - an Evolution in Software Development -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dawn M. Wolthuis Sent: Friday, 16 April 2004 1:36 PM To: 'U2 Users Discussion List' Subject: RE: UniVerse vs Progress Performance I'm curious if there is a follow up on this? Is it a database tuning issue? Indexing? Memory? ... Thanks. --dawn Dawn M. Wolthuis Tincat Group, Inc. www.tincat-group.com Take and give some delight today. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of André Nel Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 3:07 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: FW: UniVerse vs Progress Performance Hi All Visited a neighbouring company (same line of business as ours) running 430 users on a Compaq Proliant box with SCO Openserver 5 and Progress version 9.1c as database. Application is in-house. At the time of my visit the CPU usage was constantly running at 80%. No problems being experienced with users complaining the system is slow etc. The server spec is as follows: 2x intel pentium III xeon 500Mhz processors 1.8GB RAM Smart Array 3200 controller Compaq Fast SCSI-2 controller 10x 18.2 GB Ultra SCSI-2 drives (8 drives are RAID 1, other 2 RAID 0) and 5 drives on Ultra 2 controller and 5 drives on Ultra 3 Controller 2x 10/100 Tx Ethernet controllers We are running AIX v5.1 with Maintainance Level 3 and UniVerse 10.0.7 (190 users) on a p620 box with the following specs: System Model: IBM,7025-6F1 Machine Serial Number: 6577ABA Processor Type: PowerPC_RS64-III Number Of Processors: 2 Processor Clock Speed: 602 MHz CPU Type: 64-bit Kernel Type: 32-bit LPAR Info: -1 NULL Memory Size: 4096 MB Good Memory Size: 4096 MB Paging 3072MB Firmware Version: IBM,M2P01208 Our box is struggling with the 190 users. File types are T30. All our lines are minimum 64K diginet. Comparing the 2 boxes, the amount of users on each box, any reason why we are struggling with the 190 users? The transaction volumes of the company running 430 users are considerably higher than ours? Any comments please Thanks André -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.658 / Virus Database: 421 - Release Date: 9/04/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.658 / Virus Database: 421 - Release Date: 9/04/2004 -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: The future of U2
I thought this was done behind the scenes ? For our part we are looking with interest at what comes out of the mix in terms of XML databases over the next 18 months or so from the big 3 - Oracle, SQL Server DB2. If we get these facilities natively from U2 (or another mv player), great. If not, then we have Plan V :-) Ross Ferris Stamina Software Visage an Evolution in Software Development -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Mayo Sent: Thursday, 15 April 2004 4:01 AM To: U2 Users Discussion List Subject: RE: The future of U2 The way that jBase handles the problem is by requiring the database be flattened out (i.e., no multivalues) and strict data typing. This is of course the standard with 1NF databases. Unfortunately for most of us, it means a complete redesign of the existing mv database structure. Over the past several years, all new systems that I have developed have used 1NF. Still most of the data still uses multivalues and would take years to convert. :-) Steve Implementation wise, I think there are some right and wrong decisions that could be made. One of the biggies has to do with data typing, and the common practice multiply defining a field for different purposes - you know the drill - 1 might be a date, or a null, or some kind of flag. This would obviously have an impact on the ability to get at data with SQL - assuming that records aren't stored as blob/glob as some products do. The message in this I suppose is to make sure that your database is tight if you are looking at walking down this path and before you say we never do that, take a good, hard look at any temporary work files your application might use as an intermediate staging point !! Ross Ferris Stamina Software Visage an Evolution in Software Development -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dawn M. Wolthuis Sent: Thursday, 15 April 2004 3:30 AM To: 'U2 Users Discussion List' Subject: RE: The future of U2 I don't know the answer to this, but the picture in my head would permit SQL against the DB2 structures directly, so I'm guessing that will help for anyone requiring SQL. More importantly for the future, it will be important that anyone using this model be able to use their DB2 data through the multivalue/XML-model U2 view of the data. It would be a shame to take the data that is in non-1NF, then implement it in a 1NF model (which they might not be doing since DB2 has some other possibilities?) and then extract it into a non-1NF format for web services, for example. Direct U2--XML would be much smarter, I would think. --dawn Dawn M. Wolthuis Tincat Group, Inc. www.tincat-group.com Take and give some delight today. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Firl Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 10:27 AM To: U2 Users Discussion List Subject: RE: The future of U2 Has any one heard any specifics about the implementation? I'd be interested in knowing whether or not Universe applications using DB2 as a data store will require setting up a Universe SQL schema. I'm supposing that it will... Tom Firl Columbia Ultimate -Original Message- From: Roger Glenfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 8:21 PM To: U2 Users Discussion List Subject: RE: The future of U2 I believe the wording was DB2 and then others based on 'demand'. Roger -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Ross Ferris Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 11:06 PM To: U2 Users Discussion List Subject: RE: The future of U2 I'd also think that rather than any database, the target would be DB2 :-) Ross Ferris Stamina Software Visage - an Evolution in Software Development http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.656 / Virus Database: 421 - Release Date: 9/04/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.656 / Virus Database: 421 - Release Date: 9/04/2004 -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.656 / Virus Database: 421 - Release Date: 9/04/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http
RE: Productivity metrics
The other interesting thing I noted @ the HELLO WORLD site was that we had FULL source code for things like delphi - even though 99.9% was produced automatically from the IDE ! Ross Ferris Stamina Software Visage an Evolution in Software Development -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Leach Sent: Wednesday, 14 April 2004 11:25 PM To: 'U2 Users Discussion List' Subject: RE: Productivity metrics Ok I see. Meaningless then. You can write some pretty hairy nested stuff into a single 'C' statement. How is that counted? If you call a library function, do you count all the lines in that function? If you execute a SQL command under TSQL, how much of the SQL library is included in the tally? It's like those old programming competitions - write the shortest program in any computer language that prints itself, and so forth (before anyone pipes up, my entry: pg $0) I used a class generator a while back to generate VB classes to access a data source. The classes are horrible, complicated, long winded things - but since they were machine generated and provide just about every method I might need my productivity was actually improved by using them. A uvCase screen is built using a screen designer or from a short script. But the screen interpreter includes thousands of lines of Delphi code. Again, which is counted? As a measure it all sounds a bit pointless - I can't see how number of statements relates to programmer productivity when there are so many different ways to pare a moggie. Brian -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bob Dubery Sent: 14 April 2004 12:59 To: U2 Users Discussion List Subject: Re: Productivity metrics - Original Message - From: Brian Leach [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'U2 Users Discussion List' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 1:55 PM Subject: RE: Productivity metrics By 'lines of code' I wonder what they mean? Lines of source code? Number of Actions? Source or executable statements? I've seen it expressed as lines of source code or as statements -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users This email was checked by MessageLabs SkyScan before entering Microgen. This email was checked on leaving Microgen for viruses, similar malicious code and inappropriate content by MessageLabs SkyScan. DISCLAIMER This email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the named recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information. In the event of any technical difficulty with this email, please contact the sender or [EMAIL PROTECTED] Microgen Information Management Solutions http://www.microgen.co.uk -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.656 / Virus Database: 421 - Release Date: 9/04/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.656 / Virus Database: 421 - Release Date: 9/04/2004 -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Visage Roadshow in NZ
Brian, Whilst I appreciate YOUR position, you have to remember that I'll be leaving NEWCASTLE, NSW - you know, the Hunter Valley? Port Stephens? Lake Macquarie? All on the doorstop ! It IS a hard life, and I'm glad I get to do it ! PS: We are usually on the lookout for skilled people looking for a Sea Change - OR the challenge of working with innovative, leading edge technologies. Feel free to send an unsolicited CV any time :-) Ross Ferris Stamina Software Visage - an Evolution in Software Development -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Leach Sent: Tuesday, 13 April 2004 7:53 PM To: 'U2 Users Discussion List' Subject: RE: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Visage Roadshow in NZ If only ... You shouldn't torture us like that - on our first day back to work after the Easter weekend! Now I'm going to spend the rest of the day thinking about the Black Barn vineyard in Hawkes bay... Enjoy your roadshow you swine grin Brian Leach -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ross Ferris Sent: 13 April 2004 01:28 To: U2 Users Discussion List Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Nick Suvalko Subject: [ANNOUNCEMENT] Visage Roadshow in NZ For anyone that lives in the Shaky Isles, or is simply after an excuse to visit New Zealand, please mark your diaries for April 29-30. mvSolutions and Stamina Software will be staging a 2 day event in Auckland to showcase Viságe as a GUI development tool, and also Viságe.BIT for Business Intelligence/Data Warehouse applications. If you are a U2 (or other mv DB) user or VAR and haven't been invited, please contact the guys @ mvSolutions for details - the more the merrier ! Ross Ferris Stamina Software Visage - an Evolution in Software Development This email was checked on leaving Microgen for viruses, similar malicious code and inappropriate content by MessageLabs SkyScan. DISCLAIMER This email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the named recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information. In the event of any technical difficulty with this email, please contact the sender or [EMAIL PROTECTED] Microgen Information Management Solutions http://www.microgen.co.uk -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.656 / Virus Database: 421 - Release Date: 9/04/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.656 / Virus Database: 421 - Release Date: 9/04/2004 -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
[ANNOUNCEMENT] Visage Roadshow in NZ
For anyone that lives in the Shaky Isles, or is simply after an excuse to visit New Zealand, please mark your diaries for April 29-30. mvSolutions and Stamina Software will be staging a 2 day event in Auckland to showcase Viságe as a GUI development tool, and also Viságe.BIT for Business Intelligence/Data Warehouse applications. If you are a U2 (or other mv DB) user or VAR and haven't been invited, please contact the guys @ mvSolutions for details - the more the merrier ! Ross Ferris Stamina Software Visage - an Evolution in Software Development --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.656 / Virus Database: 421 - Release Date: 9/04/2004 -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
Are there any major U2 distributors in UK or USA ?
Please forgive my ignorance, but in Australasia there appear to be 2 'master VARs' of U2 products (PRISM MBS), though I understand there are 'some' people that deal direct with IBM. I'm just wondering what the 'norm' is in the outside world these days ? For example, I know that Monolith used to be 'big' at one time as a U2 distributor, yet there doesn't appear to be much recent stuff on their website (post 2002). Is this a void in the market ? was it filled by someone else (IBM Direct?) Is there a similar tale from the UK ? Europe ? South Africa ? Ross Ferris Stamina Software Visage an Evolution in Software Development --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.648 / Virus Database: 415 - Release Date: 31/03/2004 -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: Modern Universe (TESTING)
Whilst not a 'built in' facility, you can code a solution around this to get (more or less) instant results using a dual/degenerate inversion scheme - of course that would also have required you to know in advance that you wanted to perform such a wildcard search on the field in question. Ross Ferris Stamina Software Visage an Evolution in Software Development -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, 5 April 2004 2:24 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Modern Universe (TESTING) In a message dated 4/4/2004 9:11:10 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: One thing I think everyone's missed (deliberately or otherwise) wildcard (WHERE address LIKE '%EXPLORATION'). I brought this up a couple of times, nobody seemed to be interested to check the difference. Joe Eugene Personally I would be surprised if either database had a way of handling leading wildcards other than an exhaustive scan. Will -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.648 / Virus Database: 415 - Release Date: 31/03/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.648 / Virus Database: 415 - Release Date: 31/03/2004 -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: XML or WORD Format???
Alternatively, if you had a Win2K Pro or better machine on the network, you could consider our WordLynx product to produce your invoices natively into Word format (the WordLynx server component runs as a service on NT style platforms, so the machine can be used for other tasks - and green screens can also initiate production of Word documents. You can download an eval manuals from www.stamina.com.au - just follow the WordLynx links. The beauty of WordLynx is that an end user can change the format of an invoice/statement/etc, include graphics, change fonts etc by simply using Word - and there are no backend program changes. If you add Adobe Distiller to the WordLynx Server, then you can also produce .PDFs Good luck Ross Ferris Stamina Software Visage an Evolution in Software Development -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert Colquhoun Sent: Friday, 2 April 2004 10:48 AM To: U2 Users Discussion List Subject: RE: XML or WORD Format??? Hello, -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Haas, John Does Anyone know of a way to convert either .pdf or PCL formats to XML and/or WORD format that will run under HP-UX. I might be completely wrong here as i have never used the product but someone recently told me Open Office can read in pdf files which you can edit and then save as ms-word documents. If you are really lucky there might be a version available that runs natively on HP-UX. - Robert -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.639 / Virus Database: 408 - Release Date: 22/03/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.639 / Virus Database: 408 - Release Date: 22/03/2004 -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: Volunteer Board
That said, I think that it would be nice to have some representation from each 'major' country where U2 is used ... UK is covered, USA (obvious) ./... haven't looked for Aus, SA, NZ, NL (and sorry for 'others' I just snubbed) should 'add' to the international flavour Ross Ferris Stamina Software Visage an Evolution in Software Development -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dennis Bartlett Sent: Wednesday, 31 March 2004 5:56 PM To: 'U2 Users Discussion List' Subject: Volunteer Board The number of after-the fact non-volunteers pointing out what we *should* have done is always staggering... I think what you've done is excellent. I think that the who comparison thang came about as a result of the imminent demise of the oliver thing... Volunteer? No problem, only I wonder if - what I know - where I live - the currency I use would be of any use to you... -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.639 / Virus Database: 408 - Release Date: 22/03/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.639 / Virus Database: 408 - Release Date: 22/03/2004 -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: U2 file articles in International Spectrum
I wonder when Gus is going to update the website, so those of us outside USA can have a read !?! Ross Ferris Stamina Software Visage an Evolution in Software Development -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Results Sent: Sunday, 21 March 2004 9:00 AM To: U2 Users Discussion List Subject: Re: U2 file articles in International Spectrum Jeff, I enjoyed the initial article. When you start the section titled The Hash Key the writing style changes for the better. The opening was a bit impersonal. From a technical standpoint, it wasn't new material for me, but it was is an excellent base for the rest of the series. I look to forward to the next entry. It's an excellent topic, complimented by strong writing. - Charles Picky Barouch Jeff Fitzgerald wrote: Peggy and I are writing a series of articles in Spectrum about U2 files. The first one is in the March/April issue which is just out. I'd be interested in reactions and feedback. The first article is pretty introductory; we're going to do five or six and will strive for some depth. Feel free to email any comments or post to the list if appropriate. Thanks! Jeff Fitzgerald Fitzgerald Long, Inc. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.fitzlong.com (303) 755-1102 -- Sincerely, Charles Barouch www.KeyAlly.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.634 / Virus Database: 406 - Release Date: 18/03/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.634 / Virus Database: 406 - Release Date: 18/03/2004 -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: U2 file articles in International Spectrum
Ahhh, what do I want to know and the answer given by all good users is if I knew what I didn't know then I wouldn't have to ask, but I don't know WHAT I don't know, so I don't know ! (or sumfin like dat) Ross Ferris Stamina Software Visage an Evolution in Software Development -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Results Sent: Monday, 22 March 2004 2:39 PM To: U2 Users Discussion List Subject: Re: U2 file articles in International Spectrum Ross, What do you want to know? I am willing to be bribed for any/all information and I'm both cheap and easy. - Charles That came out wrong Barouch Ross Ferris wrote: I wonder when Gus is going to update the website, so those of us outside USA can have a read !?! Ross Ferris Stamina Software Visage an Evolution in Software Development -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.634 / Virus Database: 406 - Release Date: 18/03/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.634 / Virus Database: 406 - Release Date: 18/03/2004 -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: D3 Automatic Faxing
If you would consider a commercial product, and have a Windows PRO (or better) machine in the environment, you might consider our WordLynx/ FaxLynx combo. Invoices, statements, orders etc produced via WORD templates (easy for client to change, include new graphics etc) and can then be faxed add MailLynx to the mix and they can be emailed as well if you need .PDF for publishing to web, just add Acrobat to the mix You can download evals, manuals etc from http://www.stamina.com.au/Products/LynxProducts/Products_Downloads.htm Ross Ferris Stamina Software Visage an Evolution in Software Development -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Johnson Sent: Wednesday, 17 March 2004 5:41 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: D3 Automatic Faxing Dear All: One of my clients, D3, unix Terian Whitebox Pick server (?) would like to have his system generate roughly 100 faxes per day for invoices and purchase orders. I would be interested what the off-the-shelf approach would be. He has a US Robotics Modem connected to a serial port and all of his users are PC's running Accuterm. One thought is the user-level Blat-like approach whereby the document is downloaded to the user's PC and that PC has a Fax setup as a printer, blah, blah, blah. I'm open for suggestions. Thanks in advance. Mark Johnson -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.627 / Virus Database: 402 - Release Date: 16/03/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.627 / Virus Database: 402 - Release Date: 16/03/2004 -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: Terminology
I'm on the wrong side of the world, but IIRC DataFlo is a product, like InfoFlo - these days out of the Epicore stable I'd imagine SLA would be a Service Level Agreement and OLA would be an Operational Level Agreement, both relating (more or less) to the uptime availability of a system Ross Ferris Stamina Software Visage an Evolution in Software Development -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Johnson Sent: Tuesday, 16 March 2004 12:56 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Terminology Dear all: I'm not familiar with the following as referred to by MV: SLA and OLA metrics. Also, what is Dataflo. My guess is it may be a 4GL or it could be a 3.5GL like Eclipse. thanks. -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.622 / Virus Database: 400 - Release Date: 13/03/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.622 / Virus Database: 400 - Release Date: 13/03/2004 -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: Can ya run UV 10.x 3 user system on Win XP Pro box?
I know the free 2 user eval runs under XP-PRO, so I don't believe you would have any problems Ross Ferris Stamina Software Visage an Evolution in Software Development -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joe Walter Sent: Wednesday, 10 March 2004 6:15 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Can ya run UV 10.x 3 user system on Win XP Pro box? Got a small company that would like to get going with a Universe based app, but doesn't want to invest in a full blown Win3K server with local domain user/security, blah, blah. Wondering if we could get away with using a Win XP Pro box as the 'server'. I understand the WinXP Pro box would have to have NTFS file system - but I think that's possible or is available as an option on XP Pro? Any comments, ideas, feedback would be greatly appreciated. Joe Walter Fax/Voice mail: 1.435.514.5132 http://jaw1.home.mindspring.com Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again? -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.614 / Virus Database: 393 - Release Date: 5/03/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.614 / Virus Database: 393 - Release Date: 5/03/2004 -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: Eclipse
Brian, There are some reasonably close approximations for most of the legacy elements - and I've only ever looked at the task from the perspective of moving legacy applications into an environment like Viságe, because in the process you would cull much of the 'dead wood' that inhabits systems that have evolved in a granular manner over a long period of time As you say, trying to make this happen for a system that hasn't been developed with some thought to structure would be difficult, and as you suggest for many legacy systems would rapidly become a bigger task than re-designing the entire system, with little or no obvious/immediate payback Ross Ferris Stamina Software Visage - an Evolution in Software Development -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Leach Sent: Monday, 8 March 2004 8:33 PM To: 'U2 Users Discussion List' Subject: RE: Eclipse Ross, That sounds like an interesting project ! I agree with you over the commercial aspect. The only way it could be done reasonably would be as an open source project - and frankly I doubt it would get the contributors. I can see how using UML to model a new system could work, so long as you restricted the design to include only those elements that can be sensibly handled by the UML. But what about that dreaded 'legacy' element for which there is no formal notation: for example, Q pointers, select lists, single and multiple level data files, USING clauses and global dictionaries, horrible hetrogenous values generated from SB+: not to mention the obvious virtual fields... I would think that representing an existing system could be a nightmare. Brian -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ross Ferris Sent: 07 March 2004 10:04 To: U2 Users Discussion List Subject: RE: Eclipse UML can be used for this, though it's been around 5 years since we have done anything serious. At the time we were a Rational Rose Partner, and were following the work of BoldSoft, who had developed a round trip model driven development environment that generated applications in Delphi. We had developed an SQL Schema generator as a plug-in, but had an MV version as well (which was never commercially sold) Suffice to say that Rational came out with there own inbuilt schema generator, and BoldSoft was acquired by Delphi. Anyway, Rose was nice because at the end of the day you could save/load a UML document as an ordinary (structured) text file, which was easy to read, generate process on the pick side of the equation. I haven't looked at Rose in recent years, but I would imagine that there is now an XML output option, and support for XML Data Structures, which map quite nicely to mv Data. But somehow I don't think that any money spent on a code generation module out the back end of Rose is going to see a return Ross Ferris Stamina Software Visage - an Evolution in Software Development -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Leach Sent: Friday, 5 March 2004 8:42 PM To: 'U2 Users Discussion List' Subject: RE: Eclipse Chuck - Flame, flame, flame ! grin UML could be a useful tool for us all - if it were capable of representing MV constructs. And if they dropped those 'actors' for the Use Case phase - am I the only person who finds that notation irritating? It looks pre-schoolish - and anyway a system event is not a person. (You can shout at it and it rarely shouts back). Pity - it would be nice to have a formal way of defining MV systems that the rest of the world could recognize. In fact, it would be nice to have a formal way of defining MV systems - period. I know there are products that do it (including our own!) but I want a method, not a product. Then certain sectors might take us more seriously. Brian Not so Rational this morning Leach -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Results Sent: 05 March 2004 01:29 To: U2 Users Discussion List Subject: Re: Eclipse Ross, [Warning: Let the flames begin] I don't see UML as a step that has value. There are many ways to shape a project that reflect practical considerations. My experience of UML is that it is a method for separating projects from common sense and practical results. - Charles Rational Rationale Barouch Ross Ferris wrote: _ __ _ This email was checked on leaving Microgen for viruses, similar malicious code and inappropriate content by MessageLabs SkyScan. DISCLAIMER This email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the named recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose
RE: Eclipse
UML can be used for this, though it's been around 5 years since we have done anything serious. At the time we were a Rational Rose Partner, and were following the work of BoldSoft, who had developed a round trip model driven development environment that generated applications in Delphi. We had developed an SQL Schema generator as a plug-in, but had an MV version as well (which was never commercially sold) Suffice to say that Rational came out with there own inbuilt schema generator, and BoldSoft was acquired by Delphi. Anyway, Rose was nice because at the end of the day you could save/load a UML document as an ordinary (structured) text file, which was easy to read, generate process on the pick side of the equation. I haven't looked at Rose in recent years, but I would imagine that there is now an XML output option, and support for XML Data Structures, which map quite nicely to mv Data. But somehow I don't think that any money spent on a code generation module out the back end of Rose is going to see a return Ross Ferris Stamina Software Visage an Evolution in Software Development -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Leach Sent: Friday, 5 March 2004 8:42 PM To: 'U2 Users Discussion List' Subject: RE: Eclipse Chuck - Flame, flame, flame ! grin UML could be a useful tool for us all - if it were capable of representing MV constructs. And if they dropped those 'actors' for the Use Case phase - am I the only person who finds that notation irritating? It looks pre-schoolish - and anyway a system event is not a person. (You can shout at it and it rarely shouts back). Pity - it would be nice to have a formal way of defining MV systems that the rest of the world could recognize. In fact, it would be nice to have a formal way of defining MV systems - period. I know there are products that do it (including our own!) but I want a method, not a product. Then certain sectors might take us more seriously. Brian Not so Rational this morning Leach -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Results Sent: 05 March 2004 01:29 To: U2 Users Discussion List Subject: Re: Eclipse Ross, [Warning: Let the flames begin] I don't see UML as a step that has value. There are many ways to shape a project that reflect practical considerations. My experience of UML is that it is a method for separating projects from common sense and practical results. - Charles Rational Rationale Barouch Ross Ferris wrote: This email was checked on leaving Microgen for viruses, similar malicious code and inappropriate content by MessageLabs SkyScan. DISCLAIMER This email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the named recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information. In the event of any technical difficulty with this email, please contact the sender or [EMAIL PROTECTED] Microgen Information Management Solutions http://www.microgen.co.uk -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.613 / Virus Database: 392 - Release Date: 4/03/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.613 / Virus Database: 392 - Release Date: 4/03/2004 -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: Redback vs Raining Data's .Net Data Provider
Search the archives here I remember seeing a comment in the last 3-4 months that it was slw - Ross Ferris Stamina Software Visage an Evolution in Software Development -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Randall Sent: Friday, 27 February 2004 12:58 PM To: 'U2 Users Discussion List' Subject: Redback vs Raining Data's .Net Data Provider Being longtime Redback developers, we are about to evaluate Raining Data's .Net Data Provider. Anybody out there with any experience or comments about the product? Thanks, Mike Randall -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.595 / Virus Database: 378 - Release Date: 25/02/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.595 / Virus Database: 378 - Release Date: 25/02/2004 -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
[AD] Viságe.BIT Whitepaper (draft) and test drive now available
Finally there is an affordable, high performance Data Warehouse/Business Intelligence facility that is fully multi-value aware ? As part of the growing Viságe family of products, Viságe.BIT enables you to incorporate 21st century Data Warehouse/Business Intelligence capabilities into your existing applications. BIT cubes are defined by simply dragging dropping fields from your existing database, and as a true MOLAP product, you can look at EVERY POSSIBLE COMBINATION of dimensions, rather than having to define discrete views. Get the full story, and have a play with a Viságe.BIT cube at http://www.stamina.com.au/Products/Visage/Visage_BIT.htm If you are going to Spectrum next month, drop by the American Computer Technics table talk to the guys about you DW/BI, GUI, Reporting and Web Development needs Ross Ferris Stamina Software Visage - an Evolution in Software Development What will YOU say ... --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.595 / Virus Database: 378 - Release Date: 25/02/2004 -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: [UV] How much do you pay for support each year?
As others have responded, UV support is a GOOD idea - and a relatively cheap no brainer option. If you don't want to get ongoing support from your hardware vendor (somewhat understandable), why not approach your software vendor, or IBM directly, as these 2 parties probably have a more active interest in keeping you online Ross Ferris Stamina Software Visage an Evolution in Software Development -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of jimmay h Sent: Friday, 20 February 2004 11:05 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [UV] How much do you pay for support each year? Our VAR just sent our UniVerse support bill for next year. We are running UniVerse 10.0.0.1 on Windows 2000 Sever. It is $72/user license. With 60 licenses, that is $4320, plus the windows support at 865.00. We used them for some support over the year, but mostly it was related to their installation of UV on the server prior to shipping it to us. We're located on the west coast and their support was in the east coast of the US. So, sometimes their support was slow in responding. They are not our software vendor, they just sold us the server and UniVerse. What are my options? Can we purchase support directly from IBM? Any ideas? _ Click, drag and drop. My MSN is the simple way to design your homepage. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200364ave/direct/01/ -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.593 / Virus Database: 376 - Release Date: 20/02/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.593 / Virus Database: 376 - Release Date: 20/02/2004 -- u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: Document scan and retrieval (looking for software)
Title: RE: Document scan and retrieval (looking for software) FWIW this is an integral component of our Visage product simply drop a scanner element on a form you are in business (provided you have a PC with a scanner or Camera or other TWAIN device that is!). Simple matter to then have your indexing inside UV, and store the actual image in web space can also drop a file element to allow arbitrary capture/loading of any file. Ross Ferris Stamina Software Visage an Evolution in Software Development _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Mitchell, Stewart Sent: Tuesday, 3 February 2004 12:39 PM To: U2 Users Discussion List (E-mail) Subject: Document scan and retrieval (looking for software) Hi All, Does anyone know of any products available for document scanning and retrieval with interfaces for Universe. Or any products that have a reasonable API so we can create our own interface. Regards, Stewart Mitchell Manager, Core Distribution Systems Mayne Pharmacy Services IT mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.576 / Virus Database: 365 - Release Date: 30/01/2004 File: ATT23548.txt --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.576 / Virus Database: 365 - Release Date: 30/01/2004 ___ u2-users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.oliver.com/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
RE: Document scan and retrieval (looking for software)
Title: RE: Document scan and retrieval (looking for software) You could of course simply save the file into a directory that is also a type 1/19 file to UV I suppose it depends on the number of images involved, as a directory search will slow down, and yet .. Might be interesting to find out WHERE in the business process Stewart was looking at deploying this ? Obviously HOW you approach the problem will vary depending on volumes. If this was for a Proof of Delivery System (PODS), or maybe for incoming invoices/documents the volumes would be quite high, and the process would need to be as efficient as possible. There may be other areas where the volumes are very low (though the value of the image to the business is high), and the relatively small overhead of using PCPaint as you suggest then doing a Save As may not be too great an impost. Ross FerrisStamina SoftwareVisage an Evolution in Software Development From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Gallen Sent: Wednesday, 4 February 2004 5:22 AM To: 'U2 Users Discussion List' Subject: RE: Document scan and retrieval (looking for software) another less integrated option (sorry if it was said before, I didn't catch the beginning of the thread). Use whatever method to scan/import as a bmp/jpg. Base64 encode the file, and store it in UV. Then Uncode the file, save it's original extension, and launch IE with that filename for display If this is running under windows, you could pull from UV encoded, decode, save to \Temporary_files and Execute IE, all from a program. I don't know if PCpaint can import an image from a source other than a file, I know one of my image manipulation software packages that came with an old digital camera (I think's it's by Adobe) will allow me to import from my scanner, or camera, or file. George -Original Message- From: Keith Upton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 1:03 PM To: U2 Users Discussion List Subject: RE: Document scan and retrieval (looking for software) We use 1Mage (www.1mage.com) and amass for the optical jukebox -Original Message- From: Lloyd Cottrell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 03 February 2004 17:54 To: 'U2 Users Discussion List' Subject: RE: Document scan and retrieval (looking for software) TRY COMPASSCS.COM. I USE THEM AND THEY HAVE A GREAT PRODUCT. INTEGRATED IN UNIVERSE ALSO From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ross Ferris Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 6:28 AM To: U2 Users Discussion List Subject: RE: Document scan and retrieval (looking for software) FWIW this is an integral component of our Visage product - simply drop a scanner element on a form you are in business (provided you have a PC with a scanner or Camera or other TWAIN device that is!). Simple matter to then have your indexing inside UV, and store the actual image in web space - can also drop a file element to allow arbitrary capture/loading of any file. Ross Ferris Stamina Software Visage - an Evolution in Software Development _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Mitchell, Stewart Sent: Tuesday, 3 February 2004 12:39 PM To: U2 Users Discussion List (E-mail) Subject: Document scan and retrieval (looking for software) Hi All, Does anyone know of any products available for document scanning and retrieval with interfaces for Universe. Or any products that have a reasonable API so we can create our own interface. Regards, Stewart Mitchell Manager, Core Distribution Systems Mayne Pharmacy Services IT mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.576 / Virus Database: 365 - Release Date: 30/01/2004 File: ATT23548.txt --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.576 / Virus Database: 365 - Release Date: 30/01/2004 This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and intended solely for the use of the addressee only. If you have received this message in error, you must not copy, distribute or disclose the contents; please notify the sender immediately and delete the message. This message is attributed to the sender and may not necessarily reflect the view of Travis Perkins plc or its subsidiaries (Travis Perkins). Agreements binding Travis Perkins may not be concluded by means of e-mail communication. E-mail transmissions are not secure and Travis Perkins accepts no responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. Whilst steps have been taken to ensure that this message is virus free, Travis Perkins accepts no liability for infection and recommends that you scan this e-mail and any attachments. Part of Travis Perkins plc. Registered Office: Lodge Way House
