Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

[RickG]

Thanks!

On Sat, Jun 2, 2018 at 8:45 AM, Jon Langeler 
wrote:

> We use both UBNT and Cambium on occasion. X pol is definitely better as
> both chains are more balanced and receiving same interference levels.
>
> Jon Langeler
> Michwave Technologies, Inc.
>
>
> On Jun 1, 2018, at 10:48 PM, RickG  wrote:
>
> Tommy, Do you find X-polarity better than H/V-Pol?
>
> On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 2:17 PM, Tommy Adams  wrote:
>
>> Depends on the distance you are trying to service.  Ideally, you want to
>> be well above the canopy and use downtilt to blast down on your SM’s.  This
>> antenna is mounted on a small Rohn 25 and we have seven 5 GHz sectors above
>> it.  Our target is only ½ mile but we have customers over 1 mile from this
>> sector.  We put everyone we can on the ePMP at the top of the tower.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>>
>> Tommy Adams
>>
>> Network Administrator
>>
>> Digitex.com
>>
>>
>>
>> 817.558.6230 Voice
>>
>> 817.558.1204 Fax
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org  *On
>> Behalf Of *Kees H.
>> *Sent:* Friday, June 01, 2018 11:01 AM
>> *To:* Ubiquiti Users Group 
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz
>>
>>
>>
>> I know the fresnel zone is larger on the 900, so I am checking to see
>> what the lowest is that you can place them
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Tommy Adams
>>
>> *Sent:* Friday, June 01, 2018 8:51 AM
>>
>> *To:* 'Ubiquiti Users Group'
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz
>>
>>
>>
>> Mine is only 60 feet up.  About 20 feet above the trees.  I think it
>> would work better up higher with more downtilt, but I am only shooting a
>> short ways and am trying to avoid interference.  And it works great where
>> it is.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>>
>> Tommy Adams
>>
>> Network Administrator
>>
>> Digitex.com
>>
>>
>>
>> 817.558.6230 Voice
>>
>> 817.558.1204 Fax
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org  *On
>> Behalf Of *Kees H.
>> *Sent:* Friday, June 01, 2018 10:49 AM
>> *To:* Paul Tackett ; Ubiquiti Users Group <
>> ubnt_users@wispa.org>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz
>>
>>
>>
>> How high AGL are you putting those Cambium APs?
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Paul Tackett via Ubnt_users
>>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, May 31, 2018 5:01 PM
>>
>> *To:* 'Ubiquiti Users Group'
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz
>>
>>
>>
>> I believe the perpetrator of that job had OCD. Glad my techs who are
>> slobs didn’t perform that mod.
>>
>>
>>
>> *Paul Tackett, COO*
>>
>> 406-284-3174x105
>>
>> p...@latmt.com
>>
>> ---
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org
>> ] *On Behalf Of *Tommy Adams
>> *Sent:* Thursday, May 31, 2018 17:16
>> *To:* Ubiquiti Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz
>>
>>
>>
>> That is fantastic. You even retained the little plastic cap on the end of
>> the antenna.
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>> Tommy A.
>>
>> Digitex.com
>>
>>
>>
>> 817.558.6230 V
>>
>> 817.558.1204 F
>>
>>
>> On May 31, 2018, at 6:11 PM, Tommy Adams  wrote:
>>
>> Did you set your target signal strength?  They should automatically back
>> off the power.
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>> Tommy A.
>>
>> Digitex.com
>>
>>
>>
>> 817.558.6230 V
>>
>> 817.558.1204 F
>>
>>
>> On May 31, 2018, at 5:35 PM, Paul Tackett via Ubnt_users <
>> ubnt_users@wispa.org> wrote:
>>
>> Impressive. We found that if there was LOS at that distance, we had to
>> cut the yagi down to a nub as the signal was too hot and performance was
>> terrible!
>>
>>
>>
>> Paul Tackett, COO
>>
>> (406)284-3174x105
>>
>> p...@latmt.com
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:ubnt_users-boun...@wi

Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

[Jon Langeler]

We use both UBNT and Cambium on occasion. X pol is definitely better as both 
chains are more balanced and receiving same interference levels.

Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.


> On Jun 1, 2018, at 10:48 PM, RickG  wrote:
> 
> Tommy, Do you find X-polarity better than H/V-Pol?
> 
>> On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 2:17 PM, Tommy Adams  wrote:
>> Depends on the distance you are trying to service.  Ideally, you want to be 
>> well above the canopy and use downtilt to blast down on your SM’s.  This 
>> antenna is mounted on a small Rohn 25 and we have seven 5 GHz sectors above 
>> it.  Our target is only ½ mile but we have customers over 1 mile from this 
>> sector.  We put everyone we can on the ePMP at the top of the tower. 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> ---
>> 
>> Tommy Adams
>> 
>> Network Administrator
>> 
>> Digitex.com
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> 817.558.6230 Voice
>> 
>> 817.558.1204 Fax
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org  On Behalf 
>> Of Kees H.
>> Sent: Friday, June 01, 2018 11:01 AM
>> To: Ubiquiti Users Group 
>> 
>> 
>> Subject: Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz
>>  
>> 
>> I know the fresnel zone is larger on the 900, so I am checking to see what 
>> the lowest is that you can place them
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: Tommy Adams
>> 
>> Sent: Friday, June 01, 2018 8:51 AM
>> 
>> To: 'Ubiquiti Users Group'
>> 
>> Subject: Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Mine is only 60 feet up.  About 20 feet above the trees.  I think it would 
>> work better up higher with more downtilt, but I am only shooting a short 
>> ways and am trying to avoid interference.  And it works great where it is.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> -------
>> 
>> Tommy Adams
>> 
>> Network Administrator
>> 
>> Digitex.com
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> 817.558.6230 Voice
>> 
>> 817.558.1204 Fax
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org  On Behalf 
>> Of Kees H.
>> Sent: Friday, June 01, 2018 10:49 AM
>> To: Paul Tackett ; Ubiquiti Users Group 
>> 
>> Subject: Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> How high AGL are you putting those Cambium APs?
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: Paul Tackett via Ubnt_users
>> 
>> Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2018 5:01 PM
>> 
>> To: 'Ubiquiti Users Group'
>> 
>> Subject: Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> I believe the perpetrator of that job had OCD. Glad my techs who are slobs 
>> didn’t perform that mod.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Paul Tackett, COO
>> 
>> 406-284-3174x105
>> 
>> p...@latmt.com
>> 
>> ---
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org] On 
>> Behalf Of Tommy Adams
>> Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2018 17:16
>> To: Ubiquiti Users Group 
>> Subject: Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> That is fantastic. You even retained the little plastic cap on the end of 
>> the antenna.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Tommy A.
>> 
>> Digitex.com
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> 817.558.6230 V
>> 
>> 817.558.1204 F
>> 
>> 
>> On May 31, 2018, at 6:11 PM, Tommy Adams  wrote:
>> 
>> Did you set your target signal strength?  They should automatically back off 
>> the power.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Tommy A.
>> 
>> Digitex.com
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> 817.558.6230 V
>> 
>> 817.558.1204 F
>> 
>> 
>> On May 31, 2018, at 5:35 PM, Paul Tackett via Ubnt_users 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Impressive. We found that if there was LOS at that distance, we had to cut 
>> the yagi down to a nub as the signal was too hot and performance was 
>> terrible!
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Paul Tackett, COO
>> 
>> (406)284-3174x105
>> 
>> p...@latmt.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org] On 
>> Behalf Of Tommy Adams
>> Sent

Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

[RickG]

Tommy, Do you find X-polarity better than H/V-Pol?

On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 2:17 PM, Tommy Adams  wrote:

> Depends on the distance you are trying to service.  Ideally, you want to
> be well above the canopy and use downtilt to blast down on your SM’s.  This
> antenna is mounted on a small Rohn 25 and we have seven 5 GHz sectors above
> it.  Our target is only ½ mile but we have customers over 1 mile from this
> sector.  We put everyone we can on the ePMP at the top of the tower.
>
>
>
>
>
> ---
>
> Tommy Adams
>
> Network Administrator
>
> Digitex.com
>
>
>
> 817.558.6230 Voice
>
> 817.558.1204 Fax
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org  *On
> Behalf Of *Kees H.
> *Sent:* Friday, June 01, 2018 11:01 AM
> *To:* Ubiquiti Users Group 
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz
>
>
>
> I know the fresnel zone is larger on the 900, so I am checking to see what
> the lowest is that you can place them
>
>
>
> *From:* Tommy Adams
>
> *Sent:* Friday, June 01, 2018 8:51 AM
>
> *To:* 'Ubiquiti Users Group'
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz
>
>
>
> Mine is only 60 feet up.  About 20 feet above the trees.  I think it would
> work better up higher with more downtilt, but I am only shooting a short
> ways and am trying to avoid interference.  And it works great where it is.
>
>
>
>
>
> ---
>
> Tommy Adams
>
> Network Administrator
>
> Digitex.com
>
>
>
> 817.558.6230 Voice
>
> 817.558.1204 Fax
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org  *On
> Behalf Of *Kees H.
> *Sent:* Friday, June 01, 2018 10:49 AM
> *To:* Paul Tackett ; Ubiquiti Users Group <
> ubnt_users@wispa.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz
>
>
>
> How high AGL are you putting those Cambium APs?
>
>
>
> *From:* Paul Tackett via Ubnt_users
>
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 31, 2018 5:01 PM
>
> *To:* 'Ubiquiti Users Group'
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz
>
>
>
> I believe the perpetrator of that job had OCD. Glad my techs who are slobs
> didn’t perform that mod.
>
>
>
> *Paul Tackett, COO*
>
> 406-284-3174x105
>
> p...@latmt.com
>
> ---
>
> [image: LAT-Web-Logo-Small]
>
>
>
> *From:* ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org
> ] *On Behalf Of *Tommy Adams
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 31, 2018 17:16
> *To:* Ubiquiti Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz
>
>
>
> That is fantastic. You even retained the little plastic cap on the end of
> the antenna.
>
>
>
> 
>
> Tommy A.
>
> Digitex.com
>
>
>
> 817.558.6230 V
>
> 817.558.1204 F
>
>
> On May 31, 2018, at 6:11 PM, Tommy Adams  wrote:
>
> Did you set your target signal strength?  They should automatically back
> off the power.
>
>
>
> 
>
> Tommy A.
>
> Digitex.com
>
>
>
> 817.558.6230 V
>
> 817.558.1204 F
>
>
> On May 31, 2018, at 5:35 PM, Paul Tackett via Ubnt_users <
> ubnt_users@wispa.org> wrote:
>
> Impressive. We found that if there was LOS at that distance, we had to cut
> the yagi down to a nub as the signal was too hot and performance was
> terrible!
>
>
>
> Paul Tackett, COO
>
> (406)284-3174x105
>
> p...@latmt.com
>
> 
>
>
>
> *From:* ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org
> ] *On Behalf Of *Tommy Adams
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 31, 2018 15:10
> *To:* 'Ubiquiti Users Group' 
> *Subject:* Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz
>
>
>
> First picture is from the tower.  You can see we are not that high.  The
> customer pictures are .3 of a mile from the tower and downhill.  As you can
> see in both pictures there is zero line of sight.  You can also see that
> these are the worse modem placements being 900 MHz and shooting over a
> metal roof.  They work beautifully.
>
>
>
>
>
> ---
>
> Tommy Adams
>
> Network Administrator
>
> Digitex.com
>
>
>
> 817.558.6230 Voice
>
> 817.558.1204 Fax
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org  *On
> Behalf Of *RickG
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 31, 2018 3:19 PM
> *To:* Ubiquiti Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz
>
>
>
> Thanks again Tommy! I'd love to see a picture of how thick the trees a

Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

[Tommy Adams]

Mine is only 60 feet up.  About 20 feet above the trees.  I think it would work 
better up higher with more downtilt, but I am only shooting a short ways and am 
trying to avoid interference.  And it works great where it is.

 

 

---

Tommy Adams

Network Administrator

Digitex.com

 

817.558.6230 Voice

817.558.1204 Fax

 

 

 

From: ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org  On Behalf Of 
Kees H.
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2018 10:49 AM
To: Paul Tackett ; Ubiquiti Users Group 
Subject: Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

 

How high AGL are you putting those Cambium APs?

 

From: Paul Tackett via Ubnt_users 

Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2018 5:01 PM

To: 'Ubiquiti Users Group' 

Subject: Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

 

I believe the perpetrator of that job had OCD. Glad my techs who are slobs 
didn’t perform that mod.

 

Paul Tackett, COO

406-284-3174x105

p...@latmt.com <mailto:p...@latmt.com> 

---



 

From: ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org <mailto:ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org>  
[mailto:ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Tommy Adams
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2018 17:16
To: Ubiquiti Users Group mailto:ubnt_users@wispa.org> >
Subject: Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

 

That is fantastic. You even retained the little plastic cap on the end of the 
antenna. 

 



Tommy A.

Digitex.com <http://Digitex.com> 

 

817.558.6230 V

817.558.1204 F


On May 31, 2018, at 6:11 PM, Tommy Adams mailto:tomm...@digitex.net> > wrote:

Did you set your target signal strength?  They should automatically back off 
the power. 

 



Tommy A.

Digitex.com <http://Digitex.com> 

 

817.558.6230 V

817.558.1204 F


On May 31, 2018, at 5:35 PM, Paul Tackett via Ubnt_users mailto:ubnt_users@wispa.org> > wrote:

Impressive. We found that if there was LOS at that distance, we had to cut the 
yagi down to a nub as the signal was too hot and performance was terrible!

 

Paul Tackett, COO

(406)284-3174x105

p...@latmt.com <mailto:p...@latmt.com> 



 

From: ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org <mailto:ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org>  
[mailto:ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Tommy Adams
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2018 15:10
To: 'Ubiquiti Users Group' mailto:ubnt_users@wispa.org> >
Subject: Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

 

First picture is from the tower.  You can see we are not that high.  The 
customer pictures are .3 of a mile from the tower and downhill.  As you can see 
in both pictures there is zero line of sight.  You can also see that these are 
the worse modem placements being 900 MHz and shooting over a metal roof.  They 
work beautifully.  

 

 

---

Tommy Adams

Network Administrator

Digitex.com <http://Digitex.com> 

 

817.558.6230 Voice

817.558.1204 Fax

 

 

 

From: ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org <mailto:ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org>  
mailto:ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org> > On Behalf 
Of RickG
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2018 3:19 PM
To: Ubiquiti Users Group mailto:ubnt_users@wispa.org> >
Subject: Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

 

Thanks again Tommy! I'd love to see a picture of how thick the trees are!

 

On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 4:08 PM, Tommy Adams mailto:tomm...@digitex.net> > wrote:

Now ours is not loaded up too heavily, only 12 clients.  We sell every speed we 
offer which is up to 16 meg for home users.  Most of the clients on this tower 
ore on our 5 or 8 meg package.  Looking at the graphs, this sector is hitting 
25 meg frequently, but there is about 60-70 meg of channel available, we are 
running in 20 MHz.  Prior to this, we could only sell people our $30-$50 
packages and they complained about the speed.  I see our one last UBNT 900 top 
out at 6-8 meg every night with about the same number of people on it.  We are 
buying a couple of SM’s a month and when we get enough for all the customers 
will do a quick change out of the tower and customers to the PMP gear.  

 

Overall experience with the PMP 900 is really good.  We tried it in 10 MHz and 
it worked great then thought why not try 20 MHz and it still did great.  We 
have a lot of frequency hopping electric meters and gas wells in our area.  I 
think placement is a big thing too.  I would not put this gear on a water tower 
next to the major highway.  Not saying it would not work, but the if you can 
see the horizon, then the frequency can hear the horizon.  We use this gear is 
a bowl of hills and trees.  In fact we did not even mount it way above the 
trees.  It is only 20 feet above the trees with down tilt.  Our furthest 
customer through what we consider thick trees in north Texas is about ½ mile.  
We do have some customers a little over a mile away as well that could not get 
a clean LOS to the same tower.  The gear is a real learning experience and not 
terribly fri

Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

[Kees H.]

How high AGL are you putting those Cambium APs?

From: Paul Tackett via Ubnt_users 
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2018 5:01 PM
To: 'Ubiquiti Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

I believe the perpetrator of that job had OCD. Glad my techs who are slobs 
didn’t perform that mod.

 

Paul Tackett, COO

406-284-3174x105

p...@latmt.com

---



 

From: ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org] On 
Behalf Of Tommy Adams
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2018 17:16
To: Ubiquiti Users Group 
Subject: Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

 

That is fantastic. You even retained the little plastic cap on the end of the 
antenna. 

 



Tommy A.

Digitex.com

 

817.558.6230 V

817.558.1204 F


On May 31, 2018, at 6:11 PM, Tommy Adams  wrote:

  Did you set your target signal strength?  They should automatically back off 
the power. 

   

  

  Tommy A.

  Digitex.com

   

  817.558.6230 V

  817.558.1204 F


  On May 31, 2018, at 5:35 PM, Paul Tackett via Ubnt_users 
 wrote:

Impressive. We found that if there was LOS at that distance, we had to cut 
the yagi down to a nub as the signal was too hot and performance was terrible!

 

Paul Tackett, COO

(406)284-3174x105

p...@latmt.com



 

From: ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org] On 
Behalf Of Tommy Adams
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2018 15:10
To: 'Ubiquiti Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

 

First picture is from the tower.  You can see we are not that high.  The 
customer pictures are .3 of a mile from the tower and downhill.  As you can see 
in both pictures there is zero line of sight.  You can also see that these are 
the worse modem placements being 900 MHz and shooting over a metal roof.  They 
work beautifully.  

 

 

---

Tommy Adams

Network Administrator

Digitex.com

 

817.558.6230 Voice

817.558.1204 Fax

 

 

 

From: ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org  On Behalf 
Of RickG
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2018 3:19 PM
To: Ubiquiti Users Group 
Subject: Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

 

Thanks again Tommy! I'd love to see a picture of how thick the trees are!

 

On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 4:08 PM, Tommy Adams  wrote:

  Now ours is not loaded up too heavily, only 12 clients.  We sell every 
speed we offer which is up to 16 meg for home users.  Most of the clients on 
this tower ore on our 5 or 8 meg package.  Looking at the graphs, this sector 
is hitting 25 meg frequently, but there is about 60-70 meg of channel 
available, we are running in 20 MHz.  Prior to this, we could only sell people 
our $30-$50 packages and they complained about the speed.  I see our one last 
UBNT 900 top out at 6-8 meg every night with about the same number of people on 
it.  We are buying a couple of SM’s a month and when we get enough for all the 
customers will do a quick change out of the tower and customers to the PMP 
gear.  

   

  Overall experience with the PMP 900 is really good.  We tried it in 10 
MHz and it worked great then thought why not try 20 MHz and it still did great. 
 We have a lot of frequency hopping electric meters and gas wells in our area.  
I think placement is a big thing too.  I would not put this gear on a water 
tower next to the major highway.  Not saying it would not work, but the if you 
can see the horizon, then the frequency can hear the horizon.  We use this gear 
is a bowl of hills and trees.  In fact we did not even mount it way above the 
trees.  It is only 20 feet above the trees with down tilt.  Our furthest 
customer through what we consider thick trees in north Texas is about ½ mile.  
We do have some customers a little over a mile away as well that could not get 
a clean LOS to the same tower.  The gear is a real learning experience and not 
terribly friendly to work with.  That being said, if a customer calls in and is 
experience issues, we do not even ask them to reboot the PMP SM.  We start with 
their router and 95% of the time this resolves their issue.  

   

   

  ---

  Tommy Adams

  Network Administrator

  Digitex.com

   

  817.558.6230 Voice

  817.558.1204 Fax

   

   

   

  From: ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org  On 
Behalf Of RickG
  Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2018 2:51 PM
  To: Ubiquiti Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

   

  Thanks Tommy! What speeds are people seeing out there on the Cambium 
900s? I dont trust marketing hype so real word input is very valuable in asking 
these types of decisions.

   

  On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 3:42 PM, Tommy Adams  wrote:

All I know is we install PMP450i 900 and we

Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

[RickG]

Tommy, I truly appreciate the pictures. Do you find x-polarity to work
better than h/v-pol?

On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 5:10 PM, Tommy Adams  wrote:

> First picture is from the tower.  You can see we are not that high.  The
> customer pictures are .3 of a mile from the tower and downhill.  As you can
> see in both pictures there is zero line of sight.  You can also see that
> these are the worse modem placements being 900 MHz and shooting over a
> metal roof.  They work beautifully.
>
>
>
>
>
> ---
>
> Tommy Adams
>
> Network Administrator
>
> Digitex.com
>
>
>
> 817.558.6230 Voice
>
> 817.558.1204 Fax
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org  *On
> Behalf Of *RickG
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 31, 2018 3:19 PM
> *To:* Ubiquiti Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz
>
>
>
> Thanks again Tommy! I'd love to see a picture of how thick the trees are!
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 4:08 PM, Tommy Adams  wrote:
>
> Now ours is not loaded up too heavily, only 12 clients.  We sell every
> speed we offer which is up to 16 meg for home users.  Most of the clients
> on this tower ore on our 5 or 8 meg package.  Looking at the graphs, this
> sector is hitting 25 meg frequently, but there is about 60-70 meg of
> channel available, we are running in 20 MHz.  Prior to this, we could only
> sell people our $30-$50 packages and they complained about the speed.  I
> see our one last UBNT 900 top out at 6-8 meg every night with about the
> same number of people on it.  We are buying a couple of SM’s a month and
> when we get enough for all the customers will do a quick change out of the
> tower and customers to the PMP gear.
>
>
>
> Overall experience with the PMP 900 is really good.  We tried it in 10 MHz
> and it worked great then thought why not try 20 MHz and it still did
> great.  We have a lot of frequency hopping electric meters and gas wells in
> our area.  I think placement is a big thing too.  I would not put this gear
> on a water tower next to the major highway.  Not saying it would not work,
> but the if you can see the horizon, then the frequency can hear the
> horizon.  We use this gear is a bowl of hills and trees.  In fact we did
> not even mount it way above the trees.  It is only 20 feet above the trees
> with down tilt.  Our furthest customer through what we consider thick trees
> in north Texas is about ½ mile.  We do have some customers a little over a
> mile away as well that could not get a clean LOS to the same tower.  The
> gear is a real learning experience and not terribly friendly to work with.
> That being said, if a customer calls in and is experience issues, we do not
> even ask them to reboot the PMP SM.  We start with their router and 95% of
> the time this resolves their issue.
>
>
>
>
>
> ---
>
> Tommy Adams
>
> Network Administrator
>
> Digitex.com
>
>
>
> 817.558.6230 Voice
>
> 817.558.1204 Fax
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org  *On
> Behalf Of *RickG
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 31, 2018 2:51 PM
> *To:* Ubiquiti Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz
>
>
>
> Thanks Tommy! What speeds are people seeing out there on the Cambium 900s?
> I dont trust marketing hype so real word input is very valuable in asking
> these types of decisions.
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 3:42 PM, Tommy Adams  wrote:
>
> All I know is we install PMP450i 900 and we never visit the customer
> again.   Also, when you think about it, the equipment may cost 5k, but I
> would rather have 5 customers bringing in $250/month ($50 package) than the
> 5k.  Also, it is not uncommon for companies to charge a higher installation
> fee or slightly higher rates when using NLOS equipment.  The additional
> cost must be absorbed by the company or passed on to the consumer.  There
> are a number of wonderful lease to own deals out there that do not break
> the bank.  We have used Ascentium Capital in the past for emergency
> upgrades to all our wireless backhauls.  I know most everyone on here is a
> big UBNT fan, it is after all a UBNT forum, but some of their products are
> not very good.  This is one of them.  Talking to them at Wispapolooza last
> year, there does not sound like any upgrades are coming for the 900 or
> 3.65.  We have deployed Cambium PMP gear in both frequencies and are glad
> to spend the money.  It is a real jump in quality.  Now would I deploy
> PMP450 in a low end trailer park, not likely.  We use UBNT, PMP, ePMP and
> even some Mikrotik in our network.

Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

[RickG]

Paul: "Scalability is what you lose when going UBNT or MT"

Agreed! Fortunately, at least in my case, 900 is only needed where the
population density is very sparse. I doubt I'd ever see more than 10 subs.
Which why spending $2500 is hard to condone. If I had more subs to get in
these areas I'd have already gone with Cambium.



On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 5:31 PM, Paul Tackett via Ubnt_users <
ubnt_users@wispa.org> wrote:

> We only have 1 PMP450i in 900Mhz and I can parrot what the others have
> said. Except maybe never having to go back as we still have the occasional
> truck roll for one reason or another.
>
>
>
> Probably the only NLOS solution that has been at least somewhat effective.
> We have a few Mikrotik 900Mhz sectors and it appears that Metal 9Mhz are no
> longer available so I may be in a spot where I’ll need to pick up
> additional PMP450i 900Mhz to replace with.
>
>
>
> Expensive but far more scalable. Scalability is what you lose when going
> UBNT or MT. Good for 18, put 19 and 20 on there, phone starts ringing off
> the hook…
>
>
>
> Paul Tackett, COO
>
> (406)284-3174x105
>
> p...@latmt.com
>
> [image: LAT-Web-Logo-Small]
>
>
>
> *From:* ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org]
> *On Behalf Of *Tommy Adams
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 31, 2018 14:09
> *To:* 'Ubiquiti Users Group' 
> *Subject:* Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz
>
>
>
> Now ours is not loaded up too heavily, only 12 clients.  We sell every
> speed we offer which is up to 16 meg for home users.  Most of the clients
> on this tower ore on our 5 or 8 meg package.  Looking at the graphs, this
> sector is hitting 25 meg frequently, but there is about 60-70 meg of
> channel available, we are running in 20 MHz.  Prior to this, we could only
> sell people our $30-$50 packages and they complained about the speed.  I
> see our one last UBNT 900 top out at 6-8 meg every night with about the
> same number of people on it.  We are buying a couple of SM’s a month and
> when we get enough for all the customers will do a quick change out of the
> tower and customers to the PMP gear.
>
>
>
> Overall experience with the PMP 900 is really good.  We tried it in 10 MHz
> and it worked great then thought why not try 20 MHz and it still did
> great.  We have a lot of frequency hopping electric meters and gas wells in
> our area.  I think placement is a big thing too.  I would not put this gear
> on a water tower next to the major highway.  Not saying it would not work,
> but the if you can see the horizon, then the frequency can hear the
> horizon.  We use this gear is a bowl of hills and trees.  In fact we did
> not even mount it way above the trees.  It is only 20 feet above the trees
> with down tilt.  Our furthest customer through what we consider thick trees
> in north Texas is about ½ mile.  We do have some customers a little over a
> mile away as well that could not get a clean LOS to the same tower.  The
> gear is a real learning experience and not terribly friendly to work with.
> That being said, if a customer calls in and is experience issues, we do not
> even ask them to reboot the PMP SM.  We start with their router and 95% of
> the time this resolves their issue.
>
>
>
>
>
> ---
>
> Tommy Adams
>
> Network Administrator
>
> Digitex.com
>
>
>
> 817.558.6230 Voice
>
> 817.558.1204 Fax
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org  *On
> Behalf Of *RickG
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 31, 2018 2:51 PM
> *To:* Ubiquiti Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz
>
>
>
> Thanks Tommy! What speeds are people seeing out there on the Cambium 900s?
> I dont trust marketing hype so real word input is very valuable in asking
> these types of decisions.
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 3:42 PM, Tommy Adams  wrote:
>
> All I know is we install PMP450i 900 and we never visit the customer
> again.   Also, when you think about it, the equipment may cost 5k, but I
> would rather have 5 customers bringing in $250/month ($50 package) than the
> 5k.  Also, it is not uncommon for companies to charge a higher installation
> fee or slightly higher rates when using NLOS equipment.  The additional
> cost must be absorbed by the company or passed on to the consumer.  There
> are a number of wonderful lease to own deals out there that do not break
> the bank.  We have used Ascentium Capital in the past for emergency
> upgrades to all our wireless backhauls.  I know most everyone on here is a
> big UBNT fan, it is after all a UBNT forum, but some of their products are
> not very good.  This is one of them.  Tal

Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

[Paul Tackett via Ubnt_users]

I believe the perpetrator of that job had OCD. Glad my techs who are slobs 
didn’t perform that mod.

 

Paul Tackett, COO

406-284-3174x105

 <mailto:p...@latmt.com> p...@latmt.com

---



 

From: ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org] On 
Behalf Of Tommy Adams
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2018 17:16
To: Ubiquiti Users Group 
Subject: Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

 

That is fantastic. You even retained the little plastic cap on the end of the 
antenna. 

 



Tommy A.

Digitex.com <http://Digitex.com> 

 

817.558.6230 V

817.558.1204 F


On May 31, 2018, at 6:11 PM, Tommy Adams mailto:tomm...@digitex.net> > wrote:

Did you set your target signal strength?  They should automatically back off 
the power. 

 



Tommy A.

Digitex.com <http://Digitex.com> 

 

817.558.6230 V

817.558.1204 F


On May 31, 2018, at 5:35 PM, Paul Tackett via Ubnt_users mailto:ubnt_users@wispa.org> > wrote:

Impressive. We found that if there was LOS at that distance, we had to cut the 
yagi down to a nub as the signal was too hot and performance was terrible!

 

Paul Tackett, COO

(406)284-3174x105

p...@latmt.com <mailto:p...@latmt.com> 



 

From: ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org <mailto:ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org>  
[mailto:ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Tommy Adams
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2018 15:10
To: 'Ubiquiti Users Group' mailto:ubnt_users@wispa.org> >
Subject: Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

 

First picture is from the tower.  You can see we are not that high.  The 
customer pictures are .3 of a mile from the tower and downhill.  As you can see 
in both pictures there is zero line of sight.  You can also see that these are 
the worse modem placements being 900 MHz and shooting over a metal roof.  They 
work beautifully.  

 

 

---

Tommy Adams

Network Administrator

Digitex.com <http://Digitex.com> 

 

817.558.6230 Voice

817.558.1204 Fax

 

 

 

From: ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org <mailto:ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org>  
mailto:ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org> > On Behalf 
Of RickG
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2018 3:19 PM
To: Ubiquiti Users Group mailto:ubnt_users@wispa.org> >
Subject: Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

 

Thanks again Tommy! I'd love to see a picture of how thick the trees are!

 

On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 4:08 PM, Tommy Adams mailto:tomm...@digitex.net> > wrote:

Now ours is not loaded up too heavily, only 12 clients.  We sell every speed we 
offer which is up to 16 meg for home users.  Most of the clients on this tower 
ore on our 5 or 8 meg package.  Looking at the graphs, this sector is hitting 
25 meg frequently, but there is about 60-70 meg of channel available, we are 
running in 20 MHz.  Prior to this, we could only sell people our $30-$50 
packages and they complained about the speed.  I see our one last UBNT 900 top 
out at 6-8 meg every night with about the same number of people on it.  We are 
buying a couple of SM’s a month and when we get enough for all the customers 
will do a quick change out of the tower and customers to the PMP gear.  

 

Overall experience with the PMP 900 is really good.  We tried it in 10 MHz and 
it worked great then thought why not try 20 MHz and it still did great.  We 
have a lot of frequency hopping electric meters and gas wells in our area.  I 
think placement is a big thing too.  I would not put this gear on a water tower 
next to the major highway.  Not saying it would not work, but the if you can 
see the horizon, then the frequency can hear the horizon.  We use this gear is 
a bowl of hills and trees.  In fact we did not even mount it way above the 
trees.  It is only 20 feet above the trees with down tilt.  Our furthest 
customer through what we consider thick trees in north Texas is about ½ mile.  
We do have some customers a little over a mile away as well that could not get 
a clean LOS to the same tower.  The gear is a real learning experience and not 
terribly friendly to work with.  That being said, if a customer calls in and is 
experience issues, we do not even ask them to reboot the PMP SM.  We start with 
their router and 95% of the time this resolves their issue.  

 

 

---

Tommy Adams

Network Administrator

Digitex.com <http://Digitex.com> 

 

817.558.6230 Voice

817.558.1204 Fax

 

 

 

From: ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org <mailto:ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org>  
mailto:ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org> > On Behalf 
Of RickG
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2018 2:51 PM
To: Ubiquiti Users Group mailto:ubnt_users@wispa.org> >
Subject: Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

 

Thanks Tommy! What speeds are people seeing out there on the Cambium 900s? I 
dont trust marketing hype so real word input is very valuable in asking 

Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

[Tommy Adams]

That is fantastic. You even retained the little plastic cap on the end of the 
antenna. 



Tommy A.
Digitex.com

817.558.6230 V
817.558.1204 F

> On May 31, 2018, at 6:11 PM, Tommy Adams  wrote:
> 
> Did you set your target signal strength?  They should automatically back off 
> the power. 
> 
> 
> 
> Tommy A.
> Digitex.com
> 
> 817.558.6230 V
> 817.558.1204 F
> 
>> On May 31, 2018, at 5:35 PM, Paul Tackett via Ubnt_users 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Impressive. We found that if there was LOS at that distance, we had to cut 
>> the yagi down to a nub as the signal was too hot and performance was 
>> terrible!
>>  
>> Paul Tackett, COO
>> (406)284-3174x105
>> p...@latmt.com
>> 
>>  
>> From: ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org] On 
>> Behalf Of Tommy Adams
>> Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2018 15:10
>> To: 'Ubiquiti Users Group' 
>> Subject: Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz
>>  
>> First picture is from the tower.  You can see we are not that high.  The 
>> customer pictures are .3 of a mile from the tower and downhill.  As you can 
>> see in both pictures there is zero line of sight.  You can also see that 
>> these are the worse modem placements being 900 MHz and shooting over a metal 
>> roof.  They work beautifully. 
>>  
>>  
>> ---
>> Tommy Adams
>> Network Administrator
>> Digitex.com
>>  
>> 817.558.6230 Voice
>> 817.558.1204 Fax
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> From: ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org  On Behalf 
>> Of RickG
>> Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2018 3:19 PM
>> To: Ubiquiti Users Group 
>> Subject: Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz
>>  
>> Thanks again Tommy! I'd love to see a picture of how thick the trees are!
>>  
>> On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 4:08 PM, Tommy Adams  wrote:
>> Now ours is not loaded up too heavily, only 12 clients.  We sell every speed 
>> we offer which is up to 16 meg for home users.  Most of the clients on this 
>> tower ore on our 5 or 8 meg package.  Looking at the graphs, this sector is 
>> hitting 25 meg frequently, but there is about 60-70 meg of channel 
>> available, we are running in 20 MHz.  Prior to this, we could only sell 
>> people our $30-$50 packages and they complained about the speed.  I see our 
>> one last UBNT 900 top out at 6-8 meg every night with about the same number 
>> of people on it.  We are buying a couple of SM’s a month and when we get 
>> enough for all the customers will do a quick change out of the tower and 
>> customers to the PMP gear.  
>>  
>> Overall experience with the PMP 900 is really good.  We tried it in 10 MHz 
>> and it worked great then thought why not try 20 MHz and it still did great.  
>> We have a lot of frequency hopping electric meters and gas wells in our 
>> area.  I think placement is a big thing too.  I would not put this gear on a 
>> water tower next to the major highway.  Not saying it would not work, but 
>> the if you can see the horizon, then the frequency can hear the horizon.  We 
>> use this gear is a bowl of hills and trees.  In fact we did not even mount 
>> it way above the trees.  It is only 20 feet above the trees with down tilt.  
>> Our furthest customer through what we consider thick trees in north Texas is 
>> about ½ mile.  We do have some customers a little over a mile away as well 
>> that could not get a clean LOS to the same tower.  The gear is a real 
>> learning experience and not terribly friendly to work with.  That being 
>> said, if a customer calls in and is experience issues, we do not even ask 
>> them to reboot the PMP SM.  We start with their router and 95% of the time 
>> this resolves their issue. 
>>  
>>  
>> ---
>> Tommy Adams
>> Network Administrator
>> Digitex.com
>>  
>> 817.558.6230 Voice
>> 817.558.1204 Fax
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> From: ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org  On Behalf 
>> Of RickG
>> Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2018 2:51 PM
>> To: Ubiquiti Users Group 
>> Subject: Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz
>>  
>> Thanks Tommy! What speeds are people seeing out there on the Cambium 900s? I 
>> dont trust marketing hype so real word input is very valuable in asking 
>> these types of decisions.
>>  
>> On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 3:42 PM, Tommy Adams  wrote:
>> All I know is we install PMP450i 900 and we never visit the customer again.  
&

Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

[Tommy Adams]

Did you set your target signal strength?  They should automatically back off 
the power. 



Tommy A.
Digitex.com

817.558.6230 V
817.558.1204 F

> On May 31, 2018, at 5:35 PM, Paul Tackett via Ubnt_users 
>  wrote:
> 
> Impressive. We found that if there was LOS at that distance, we had to cut 
> the yagi down to a nub as the signal was too hot and performance was terrible!
>  
> Paul Tackett, COO
> (406)284-3174x105
> p...@latmt.com
> 
>  
> From: ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org] On 
> Behalf Of Tommy Adams
> Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2018 15:10
> To: 'Ubiquiti Users Group' 
> Subject: Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz
>  
> First picture is from the tower.  You can see we are not that high.  The 
> customer pictures are .3 of a mile from the tower and downhill.  As you can 
> see in both pictures there is zero line of sight.  You can also see that 
> these are the worse modem placements being 900 MHz and shooting over a metal 
> roof.  They work beautifully. 
>  
>  
> ---
> Tommy Adams
> Network Administrator
> Digitex.com
>  
> 817.558.6230 Voice
> 817.558.1204 Fax
>  
>  
>  
> From: ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org  On Behalf 
> Of RickG
> Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2018 3:19 PM
> To: Ubiquiti Users Group 
> Subject: Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz
>  
> Thanks again Tommy! I'd love to see a picture of how thick the trees are!
>  
> On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 4:08 PM, Tommy Adams  wrote:
> Now ours is not loaded up too heavily, only 12 clients.  We sell every speed 
> we offer which is up to 16 meg for home users.  Most of the clients on this 
> tower ore on our 5 or 8 meg package.  Looking at the graphs, this sector is 
> hitting 25 meg frequently, but there is about 60-70 meg of channel available, 
> we are running in 20 MHz.  Prior to this, we could only sell people our 
> $30-$50 packages and they complained about the speed.  I see our one last 
> UBNT 900 top out at 6-8 meg every night with about the same number of people 
> on it.  We are buying a couple of SM’s a month and when we get enough for all 
> the customers will do a quick change out of the tower and customers to the 
> PMP gear.  
>  
> Overall experience with the PMP 900 is really good.  We tried it in 10 MHz 
> and it worked great then thought why not try 20 MHz and it still did great.  
> We have a lot of frequency hopping electric meters and gas wells in our area. 
>  I think placement is a big thing too.  I would not put this gear on a water 
> tower next to the major highway.  Not saying it would not work, but the if 
> you can see the horizon, then the frequency can hear the horizon.  We use 
> this gear is a bowl of hills and trees.  In fact we did not even mount it way 
> above the trees.  It is only 20 feet above the trees with down tilt.  Our 
> furthest customer through what we consider thick trees in north Texas is 
> about ½ mile.  We do have some customers a little over a mile away as well 
> that could not get a clean LOS to the same tower.  The gear is a real 
> learning experience and not terribly friendly to work with.  That being said, 
> if a customer calls in and is experience issues, we do not even ask them to 
> reboot the PMP SM.  We start with their router and 95% of the time this 
> resolves their issue. 
>  
>  
> ---
> Tommy Adams
> Network Administrator
> Digitex.com
>  
> 817.558.6230 Voice
> 817.558.1204 Fax
>  
>  
>  
> From: ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org  On Behalf 
> Of RickG
> Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2018 2:51 PM
> To: Ubiquiti Users Group 
> Subject: Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz
>  
> Thanks Tommy! What speeds are people seeing out there on the Cambium 900s? I 
> dont trust marketing hype so real word input is very valuable in asking these 
> types of decisions.
>  
> On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 3:42 PM, Tommy Adams  wrote:
> All I know is we install PMP450i 900 and we never visit the customer again.   
> Also, when you think about it, the equipment may cost 5k, but I would rather 
> have 5 customers bringing in $250/month ($50 package) than the 5k.  Also, it 
> is not uncommon for companies to charge a higher installation fee or slightly 
> higher rates when using NLOS equipment.  The additional cost must be absorbed 
> by the company or passed on to the consumer.  There are a number of wonderful 
> lease to own deals out there that do not break the bank.  We have used 
> Ascentium Capital in the past for emergency upgrades to all our wireless 
> backhauls.  I know most everyone on here is a big UBNT fan, it is after all a 
> UBNT

Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

[Paul Tackett via Ubnt_users]

Impressive. We found that if there was LOS at that distance, we had to cut the 
yagi down to a nub as the signal was too hot and performance was terrible!



Paul Tackett, COO

(406)284-3174x105

p...@latmt.com





From: ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org] On 
Behalf Of Tommy Adams
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2018 15:10
To: 'Ubiquiti Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz



First picture is from the tower.  You can see we are not that high.  The 
customer pictures are .3 of a mile from the tower and downhill.  As you can see 
in both pictures there is zero line of sight.  You can also see that these are 
the worse modem placements being 900 MHz and shooting over a metal roof.  They 
work beautifully.





---

Tommy Adams

Network Administrator

Digitex.com



817.558.6230 Voice

817.558.1204 Fax







From: ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org <mailto:ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org>  
mailto:ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org> > On Behalf 
Of RickG
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2018 3:19 PM
To: Ubiquiti Users Group mailto:ubnt_users@wispa.org> >
Subject: Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz



Thanks again Tommy! I'd love to see a picture of how thick the trees are!



On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 4:08 PM, Tommy Adams mailto:tomm...@digitex.net> > wrote:

Now ours is not loaded up too heavily, only 12 clients.  We sell every speed we 
offer which is up to 16 meg for home users.  Most of the clients on this tower 
ore on our 5 or 8 meg package.  Looking at the graphs, this sector is hitting 
25 meg frequently, but there is about 60-70 meg of channel available, we are 
running in 20 MHz.  Prior to this, we could only sell people our $30-$50 
packages and they complained about the speed.  I see our one last UBNT 900 top 
out at 6-8 meg every night with about the same number of people on it.  We are 
buying a couple of SM’s a month and when we get enough for all the customers 
will do a quick change out of the tower and customers to the PMP gear.



Overall experience with the PMP 900 is really good.  We tried it in 10 MHz and 
it worked great then thought why not try 20 MHz and it still did great.  We 
have a lot of frequency hopping electric meters and gas wells in our area.  I 
think placement is a big thing too.  I would not put this gear on a water tower 
next to the major highway.  Not saying it would not work, but the if you can 
see the horizon, then the frequency can hear the horizon.  We use this gear is 
a bowl of hills and trees.  In fact we did not even mount it way above the 
trees.  It is only 20 feet above the trees with down tilt.  Our furthest 
customer through what we consider thick trees in north Texas is about ½ mile.  
We do have some customers a little over a mile away as well that could not get 
a clean LOS to the same tower.  The gear is a real learning experience and not 
terribly friendly to work with.  That being said, if a customer calls in and is 
experience issues, we do not even ask them to reboot the PMP SM.  We start with 
their router and 95% of the time this resolves their issue.





---

Tommy Adams

Network Administrator

Digitex.com



817.558.6230 Voice

817.558.1204 Fax







From: ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org <mailto:ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org>  
mailto:ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org> > On Behalf 
Of RickG
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2018 2:51 PM
To: Ubiquiti Users Group mailto:ubnt_users@wispa.org> >
Subject: Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz



Thanks Tommy! What speeds are people seeing out there on the Cambium 900s? I 
dont trust marketing hype so real word input is very valuable in asking these 
types of decisions.



On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 3:42 PM, Tommy Adams mailto:tomm...@digitex.net> > wrote:

All I know is we install PMP450i 900 and we never visit the customer again.   
Also, when you think about it, the equipment may cost 5k, but I would rather 
have 5 customers bringing in $250/month ($50 package) than the 5k.  Also, it is 
not uncommon for companies to charge a higher installation fee or slightly 
higher rates when using NLOS equipment.  The additional cost must be absorbed 
by the company or passed on to the consumer.  There are a number of wonderful 
lease to own deals out there that do not break the bank.  We have used 
Ascentium Capital in the past for emergency upgrades to all our wireless 
backhauls.  I know most everyone on here is a big UBNT fan, it is after all a 
UBNT forum, but some of their products are not very good.  This is one of them. 
 Talking to them at Wispapolooza last year, there does not sound like any 
upgrades are coming for the 900 or 3.65.  We have deployed Cambium PMP gear in 
both frequencies and are glad to spend the money.  It is a real jump in 
quality.  Now would I deploy PMP450 in a low end trailer park, not likely.  We 
use UBNT, PMP, ePMP and

Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

[Paul Tackett via Ubnt_users]

We only have 1 PMP450i in 900Mhz and I can parrot what the others have said. 
Except maybe never having to go back as we still have the occasional truck roll 
for one reason or another.



Probably the only NLOS solution that has been at least somewhat effective. We 
have a few Mikrotik 900Mhz sectors and it appears that Metal 9Mhz are no longer 
available so I may be in a spot where I’ll need to pick up additional PMP450i 
900Mhz to replace with.



Expensive but far more scalable. Scalability is what you lose when going UBNT 
or MT. Good for 18, put 19 and 20 on there, phone starts ringing off the hook…



Paul Tackett, COO

(406)284-3174x105

p...@latmt.com





From: ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org] On 
Behalf Of Tommy Adams
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2018 14:09
To: 'Ubiquiti Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz



Now ours is not loaded up too heavily, only 12 clients.  We sell every speed we 
offer which is up to 16 meg for home users.  Most of the clients on this tower 
ore on our 5 or 8 meg package.  Looking at the graphs, this sector is hitting 
25 meg frequently, but there is about 60-70 meg of channel available, we are 
running in 20 MHz.  Prior to this, we could only sell people our $30-$50 
packages and they complained about the speed.  I see our one last UBNT 900 top 
out at 6-8 meg every night with about the same number of people on it.  We are 
buying a couple of SM’s a month and when we get enough for all the customers 
will do a quick change out of the tower and customers to the PMP gear.



Overall experience with the PMP 900 is really good.  We tried it in 10 MHz and 
it worked great then thought why not try 20 MHz and it still did great.  We 
have a lot of frequency hopping electric meters and gas wells in our area.  I 
think placement is a big thing too.  I would not put this gear on a water tower 
next to the major highway.  Not saying it would not work, but the if you can 
see the horizon, then the frequency can hear the horizon.  We use this gear is 
a bowl of hills and trees.  In fact we did not even mount it way above the 
trees.  It is only 20 feet above the trees with down tilt.  Our furthest 
customer through what we consider thick trees in north Texas is about ½ mile.  
We do have some customers a little over a mile away as well that could not get 
a clean LOS to the same tower.  The gear is a real learning experience and not 
terribly friendly to work with.  That being said, if a customer calls in and is 
experience issues, we do not even ask them to reboot the PMP SM.  We start with 
their router and 95% of the time this resolves their issue.





---

Tommy Adams

Network Administrator

Digitex.com



817.558.6230 Voice

817.558.1204 Fax







From: ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org <mailto:ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org>  
mailto:ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org> > On Behalf 
Of RickG
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2018 2:51 PM
To: Ubiquiti Users Group mailto:ubnt_users@wispa.org> >
Subject: Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz



Thanks Tommy! What speeds are people seeing out there on the Cambium 900s? I 
dont trust marketing hype so real word input is very valuable in asking these 
types of decisions.



On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 3:42 PM, Tommy Adams mailto:tomm...@digitex.net> > wrote:

All I know is we install PMP450i 900 and we never visit the customer again.   
Also, when you think about it, the equipment may cost 5k, but I would rather 
have 5 customers bringing in $250/month ($50 package) than the 5k.  Also, it is 
not uncommon for companies to charge a higher installation fee or slightly 
higher rates when using NLOS equipment.  The additional cost must be absorbed 
by the company or passed on to the consumer.  There are a number of wonderful 
lease to own deals out there that do not break the bank.  We have used 
Ascentium Capital in the past for emergency upgrades to all our wireless 
backhauls.  I know most everyone on here is a big UBNT fan, it is after all a 
UBNT forum, but some of their products are not very good.  This is one of them. 
 Talking to them at Wispapolooza last year, there does not sound like any 
upgrades are coming for the 900 or 3.65.  We have deployed Cambium PMP gear in 
both frequencies and are glad to spend the money.  It is a real jump in 
quality.  Now would I deploy PMP450 in a low end trailer park, not likely.  We 
use UBNT, PMP, ePMP and even some Mikrotik in our network.



Good luck…





---

Tommy Adams

Network Administrator

Digitex.com



817.558.6230 Voice

817.558.1204 Fax







From: ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org <mailto:ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org>  
mailto:ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org> > On Behalf 
Of RickG
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2018 1:42 PM
To: Ubiquiti Users Group mailto:ubnt_users@wispa.org> >
Subject: Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

[Blair Davis]

Metal roof's too...

We use UBNT 900 for range <.7 mile but heavy trees... No LoS at all.  
Using Mikro pops and putting the UBNT 900 below the trees seems to turn 
the trick for us...


--


On 5/31/2018 5:10 PM, Tommy Adams wrote:


First picture is from the tower.  You can see we are not that high.  
The customer pictures are .3 of a mile from the tower and downhill.  
As you can see in both pictures there is zero line of sight.  You can 
also see that these are the worse modem placements being 900 MHz and 
shooting over a metal roof.  They work beautifully.


---

Tommy Adams

Network Administrator

Digitex.com

817.558.6230 Voice

817.558.1204 Fax

*From:* ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org  
*On Behalf Of *RickG

*Sent:* Thursday, May 31, 2018 3:19 PM
*To:* Ubiquiti Users Group 
*Subject:* Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

Thanks again Tommy! I'd love to see a picture of how thick the trees are!

On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 4:08 PM, Tommy Adams <mailto:tomm...@digitex.net>> wrote:


Now ours is not loaded up too heavily, only 12 clients. We sell
every speed we offer which is up to 16 meg for home users.  Most
of the clients on this tower ore on our 5 or 8 meg package. 
Looking at the graphs, this sector is hitting 25 meg frequently,
but there is about 60-70 meg of channel available, we are running
in 20 MHz.  Prior to this, we could only sell people our $30-$50
packages and they complained about the speed.  I see our one last
UBNT 900 top out at 6-8 meg every night with about the same number
of people on it.  We are buying a couple of SM’s a month and when
we get enough for all the customers will do a quick change out of
the tower and customers to the PMP gear.

Overall experience with the PMP 900 is really good.  We tried it
in 10 MHz and it worked great then thought why not try 20 MHz and
it still did great.  We have a lot of frequency hopping electric
meters and gas wells in our area.  I think placement is a big
thing too.  I would not put this gear on a water tower next to the
major highway.  Not saying it would not work, but the if you can
see the horizon, then the frequency can hear the horizon.  We use
this gear is a bowl of hills and trees.  In fact we did not even
mount it way above the trees.  It is only 20 feet above the trees
with down tilt.  Our furthest customer through what we consider
thick trees in north Texas is about ½ mile.  We do have some
customers a little over a mile away as well that could not get a
clean LOS to the same tower.  The gear is a real learning
experience and not terribly friendly to work with.  That being
said, if a customer calls in and is experience issues, we do not
even ask them to reboot the PMP SM.  We start with their router
and 95% of the time this resolves their issue.

---

Tommy Adams

Network Administrator

Digitex.com

817.558.6230 Voice

817.558.1204 Fax

*From:* ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org
<mailto:ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org>
mailto:ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org>> *On Behalf Of *RickG
*Sent:* Thursday, May 31, 2018 2:51 PM
*To:* Ubiquiti Users Group mailto:ubnt_users@wispa.org>>
    *Subject:* Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

Thanks Tommy! What speeds are people seeing out there on the
Cambium 900s? I dont trust marketing hype so real word input is
very valuable in asking these types of decisions.

On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 3:42 PM, Tommy Adams mailto:tomm...@digitex.net>> wrote:

All I know is we install PMP450i 900 and we never visit the
customer again.   Also, when you think about it, the equipment
may cost 5k, but I would rather have 5 customers bringing in
$250/month ($50 package) than the 5k.  Also, it is not
uncommon for companies to charge a higher installation fee or
slightly higher rates when using NLOS equipment.  The
additional cost must be absorbed by the company or passed on
to the consumer.  There are a number of wonderful lease to own
deals out there that do not break the bank.  We have used
Ascentium Capital in the past for emergency upgrades to all
our wireless backhauls.  I know most everyone on here is a big
UBNT fan, it is after all a UBNT forum, but some of their
products are not very good.  This is one of them.  Talking to
them at Wispapolooza last year, there does not sound like any
upgrades are coming for the 900 or 3.65.  We have deployed
Cambium PMP gear in both frequencies and are glad to spend the
money.  It is a real jump in quality.  Now would I deploy
PMP450 in a low end trailer park, not likely.  We use UBNT,
PMP, ePMP and even some Mikroti

Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

[RickG]

Thanks again Tommy! I'd love to see a picture of how thick the trees are!

On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 4:08 PM, Tommy Adams  wrote:

> Now ours is not loaded up too heavily, only 12 clients.  We sell every
> speed we offer which is up to 16 meg for home users.  Most of the clients
> on this tower ore on our 5 or 8 meg package.  Looking at the graphs, this
> sector is hitting 25 meg frequently, but there is about 60-70 meg of
> channel available, we are running in 20 MHz.  Prior to this, we could only
> sell people our $30-$50 packages and they complained about the speed.  I
> see our one last UBNT 900 top out at 6-8 meg every night with about the
> same number of people on it.  We are buying a couple of SM’s a month and
> when we get enough for all the customers will do a quick change out of the
> tower and customers to the PMP gear.
>
>
>
> Overall experience with the PMP 900 is really good.  We tried it in 10 MHz
> and it worked great then thought why not try 20 MHz and it still did
> great.  We have a lot of frequency hopping electric meters and gas wells in
> our area.  I think placement is a big thing too.  I would not put this gear
> on a water tower next to the major highway.  Not saying it would not work,
> but the if you can see the horizon, then the frequency can hear the
> horizon.  We use this gear is a bowl of hills and trees.  In fact we did
> not even mount it way above the trees.  It is only 20 feet above the trees
> with down tilt.  Our furthest customer through what we consider thick trees
> in north Texas is about ½ mile.  We do have some customers a little over a
> mile away as well that could not get a clean LOS to the same tower.  The
> gear is a real learning experience and not terribly friendly to work with.
> That being said, if a customer calls in and is experience issues, we do not
> even ask them to reboot the PMP SM.  We start with their router and 95% of
> the time this resolves their issue.
>
>
>
>
>
> ---
>
> Tommy Adams
>
> Network Administrator
>
> Digitex.com
>
>
>
> 817.558.6230 Voice
>
> 817.558.1204 Fax
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org  *On
> Behalf Of *RickG
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 31, 2018 2:51 PM
> *To:* Ubiquiti Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz
>
>
>
> Thanks Tommy! What speeds are people seeing out there on the Cambium 900s?
> I dont trust marketing hype so real word input is very valuable in asking
> these types of decisions.
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 3:42 PM, Tommy Adams  wrote:
>
> All I know is we install PMP450i 900 and we never visit the customer
> again.   Also, when you think about it, the equipment may cost 5k, but I
> would rather have 5 customers bringing in $250/month ($50 package) than the
> 5k.  Also, it is not uncommon for companies to charge a higher installation
> fee or slightly higher rates when using NLOS equipment.  The additional
> cost must be absorbed by the company or passed on to the consumer.  There
> are a number of wonderful lease to own deals out there that do not break
> the bank.  We have used Ascentium Capital in the past for emergency
> upgrades to all our wireless backhauls.  I know most everyone on here is a
> big UBNT fan, it is after all a UBNT forum, but some of their products are
> not very good.  This is one of them.  Talking to them at Wispapolooza last
> year, there does not sound like any upgrades are coming for the 900 or
> 3.65.  We have deployed Cambium PMP gear in both frequencies and are glad
> to spend the money.  It is a real jump in quality.  Now would I deploy
> PMP450 in a low end trailer park, not likely.  We use UBNT, PMP, ePMP and
> even some Mikrotik in our network.
>
>
>
> Good luck…
>
>
>
>
>
> -----------
>
> Tommy Adams
>
> Network Administrator
>
> Digitex.com
>
>
>
> 817.558.6230 Voice
>
> 817.558.1204 Fax
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org  *On
> Behalf Of *RickG
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 31, 2018 1:42 PM
> *To:* Ubiquiti Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz
>
>
>
> JP, I apologize if you took my comment as a personal offense, it was not
> directed at you but rather I was sharing my experience in a moment of
> "weakness" :P
>
> Either way, no need to reply because we've definitely beaten this horse to
> death. That said, thanks again!
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 2:33 PM, J Portman  wrote:
>
> Easy enough to verify, the stock sale was registered with the SEC.
>
> 5 minutes of research on Google wil

Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

[Tommy Adams]

Now ours is not loaded up too heavily, only 12 clients.  We sell every speed we 
offer which is up to 16 meg for home users.  Most of the clients on this tower 
ore on our 5 or 8 meg package.  Looking at the graphs, this sector is hitting 
25 meg frequently, but there is about 60-70 meg of channel available, we are 
running in 20 MHz.  Prior to this, we could only sell people our $30-$50 
packages and they complained about the speed.  I see our one last UBNT 900 top 
out at 6-8 meg every night with about the same number of people on it.  We are 
buying a couple of SM’s a month and when we get enough for all the customers 
will do a quick change out of the tower and customers to the PMP gear.  

 

Overall experience with the PMP 900 is really good.  We tried it in 10 MHz and 
it worked great then thought why not try 20 MHz and it still did great.  We 
have a lot of frequency hopping electric meters and gas wells in our area.  I 
think placement is a big thing too.  I would not put this gear on a water tower 
next to the major highway.  Not saying it would not work, but the if you can 
see the horizon, then the frequency can hear the horizon.  We use this gear is 
a bowl of hills and trees.  In fact we did not even mount it way above the 
trees.  It is only 20 feet above the trees with down tilt.  Our furthest 
customer through what we consider thick trees in north Texas is about ½ mile.  
We do have some customers a little over a mile away as well that could not get 
a clean LOS to the same tower.  The gear is a real learning experience and not 
terribly friendly to work with.  That being said, if a customer calls in and is 
experience issues, we do not even ask them to reboot the PMP SM.  We start with 
their router and 95% of the time this resolves their issue.  

 

 

---

Tommy Adams

Network Administrator

Digitex.com

 

817.558.6230 Voice

817.558.1204 Fax

 

 

 

From: ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org  On Behalf Of 
RickG
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2018 2:51 PM
To: Ubiquiti Users Group 
Subject: Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

 

Thanks Tommy! What speeds are people seeing out there on the Cambium 900s? I 
dont trust marketing hype so real word input is very valuable in asking these 
types of decisions.

 

On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 3:42 PM, Tommy Adams mailto:tomm...@digitex.net> > wrote:

All I know is we install PMP450i 900 and we never visit the customer again.   
Also, when you think about it, the equipment may cost 5k, but I would rather 
have 5 customers bringing in $250/month ($50 package) than the 5k.  Also, it is 
not uncommon for companies to charge a higher installation fee or slightly 
higher rates when using NLOS equipment.  The additional cost must be absorbed 
by the company or passed on to the consumer.  There are a number of wonderful 
lease to own deals out there that do not break the bank.  We have used 
Ascentium Capital in the past for emergency upgrades to all our wireless 
backhauls.  I know most everyone on here is a big UBNT fan, it is after all a 
UBNT forum, but some of their products are not very good.  This is one of them. 
 Talking to them at Wispapolooza last year, there does not sound like any 
upgrades are coming for the 900 or 3.65.  We have deployed Cambium PMP gear in 
both frequencies and are glad to spend the money.  It is a real jump in 
quality.  Now would I deploy PMP450 in a low end trailer park, not likely.  We 
use UBNT, PMP, ePMP and even some Mikrotik in our network.

 

Good luck…

 

 

---

Tommy Adams

Network Administrator

Digitex.com

 

817.558.6230 Voice

817.558.1204 Fax

 

 

 

From: ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org <mailto:ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org>  
mailto:ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org> > On Behalf 
Of RickG
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2018 1:42 PM
To: Ubiquiti Users Group mailto:ubnt_users@wispa.org> >
Subject: Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

 

JP, I apologize if you took my comment as a personal offense, it was not 
directed at you but rather I was sharing my experience in a moment of 
"weakness" :P

Either way, no need to reply because we've definitely beaten this horse to 
death. That said, thanks again!  

 

On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 2:33 PM, J Portman mailto:ba...@baron.com> > wrote:

Easy enough to verify, the stock sale was registered with the SEC.

5 minutes of research on Google will give you a pretty good idea of who I am, 
what I own, etc.

And, I think this is the last time I will ever respond to you, since I don't 
fancy being called a prevaricator.

Please, please, please, ignore all my advice.

 

JP 

On Thu, 31 May 2018 14:26:18 -0400, RickG wrote

> JP, With all due respect, I know and have known many "millionaires" - until 
> you see their balance sheet and realize they owe more than they own. With 
> that said, if you've done better than they, then congratulat

Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

[RickG]

Blair, "Cash is king". As in the past, hopefully that remains true in the
next downturn. Imagine buying things for a dime on the dollar ;P


On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 3:52 PM, Blair Davis  wrote:

> Us as well...
>
> Cash is king.
>
> --
>
> On 5/31/2018 3:34 PM, Kees H. wrote:
>
> Same here, makes it easier to make it through the downturns in the economy
>
> *From:* RickG
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 31, 2018 11:04 AM
> *To:* Ubiquiti Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz
>
> Ah, that's the difference between us - I run a debt free company.
>
> On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 11:23 AM, J Portman  wrote:
>
>> Well, if there is no other service available, $50/month is too low. :) SB
>> able to charge more. Good price is $69.95.
>>
>> $1*.035 = $350 month for 60 months. (and that is a VERY expensive
>> lease).
>>
>> 10 customers at $70 = $700/month. $350 profit off the jump. Acceptable,
>> but not 'juicy'. :)
>>
>> 20 customers at $70  = $1400/month (per sector) = $1000 profit per month
>> (per sector). Now we're talking.
>>
>> We have hundreds of no-go site surveys that might work with 900 if we can
>> beat the interference from CPS Energy.
>>
>> Get better lease terms and profit goes up.
>>
>> Charge an installation fee to cover some of your upfront costs as well.
>> $199 seems reasonable if no other service is available.
>> Add in a managed router service (or anything you can think of to drive
>> ARPU up).
>>
>> Now your upfront for 20 customers = $4000 for radios and $6000 for sector
>> with backup. (you only need ONE backup BTW)
>> Second sector is only $7K for 20 customers.
>> And the beat goes on.
>>
>> $350/month for lease payment vs $1400 for incoming cash flow. I'd make
>> that deal every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
>>
>> But that's just me. :)
>>
>> YMMV.
>>
>> JP
>>
>> *On Wed, 30 May 2018 23:50:32 -0400, RickG wrote*
>> > CAMBIUM:
>> > Outlay: AP (x2 for backup) $5000 + CPE/Antenna (x 11) $4400 + Labor
>> $600 = TOTAL: $1 (not including bandwidth & support)Inflow: 10
>> customers @ $50/month = $500/month
>> > ROI (Not counting labor or any issues): 20 months
>> >
>> > UBNT:
>> > Outlay: AP ($250 (x2 for backup) $500 + CPE/Antenna (x11) $2750 + Labor
>> $600 = TOTAL: $3600
>> > Inflow: 10 customers @ $50/month = $500/month
>> > ROI (Not counting labor or any issues): 7.2 months
>> >
>> > That's a big difference, especially when you consider my ROI on LOS
>> subs is much, much less! 3 cheers for LOS! Too bad everyone is not LOS! :)
>> >
>> > On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 10:08 PM, J Portman  wrote:
>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> >
>>> > You think so? Take a look at ANY of the LTE solutions and then come
>>> talk about cost. :)
>>> >
>>> > 2500 for an AP seems steep, but amortizes VERY quickly with 10
>>> clients.
>>> >
>>> > JP
>>> >
>>> > *On Tue, 29 May 2018 23:58:02 -0400, RickG wrote*
>>> >
>>> > > Cambium 450i 900 is very pricey!
>>> > >
>>> > > On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 12:56 PM, Josh Luthman <
>>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>>> > >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> > > Cambium came out with their 450i in 900 in the last couple years.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Josh Luthman
>>>> > > Office: 937-552-2340
>>>> > > Direct: 937-552-2343
>>>> > > 1100 Wayne St
>>>> > > Suite 1337
>>>> > > Troy, OH 45373
>>>> > >
>>>> > > On Tue, May 29, 2018, 12:54 PM Clay Stewart <
>>>> cstew...@scsbroadband.com> wrote:
>>>> > >
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> > > What to expect with the best of experiences. Expect 4-10Mbps in
>>>>> foliage and at least 100' over treetops on a tower.  We have a bit of hill
>>>>> which makes the difference for eight over the terrain. I would be hard
>>>>> press to deploy in flat land with foliage. As with any frequency, it is
>>>>> Terrain, Terrain Terrain... and height.
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > Get recommendations from someone who has similar terrain, as
>>>>> opinions will always matter between those WISPs in various conditions.
>>>>> > >
>>>&

Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

[RickG]

Yes your right Kees! Historically the economy has always cycled and we're
on borrowed time for a downturn and when it does a lot of people in debt
are going to feel the pain. I've made it a point over my career to study
and understand economics. I recommend zero debt but if you do debt no more
than you can payoff in a month. Also, dont make business decisions based on
today's economy. In other words, have a plan for a downturn. YMMV

On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 3:34 PM, Kees H.  wrote:

> Same here, makes it easier to make it through the downturns in the economy
>
> *From:* RickG
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 31, 2018 11:04 AM
> *To:* Ubiquiti Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz
>
> Ah, that's the difference between us - I run a debt free company.
>
> On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 11:23 AM, J Portman  wrote:
>
>> Well, if there is no other service available, $50/month is too low. :) SB
>> able to charge more. Good price is $69.95.
>>
>> $1*.035 = $350 month for 60 months. (and that is a VERY expensive
>> lease).
>>
>> 10 customers at $70 = $700/month. $350 profit off the jump. Acceptable,
>> but not 'juicy'. :)
>>
>> 20 customers at $70  = $1400/month (per sector) = $1000 profit per month
>> (per sector). Now we're talking.
>>
>> We have hundreds of no-go site surveys that might work with 900 if we can
>> beat the interference from CPS Energy.
>>
>> Get better lease terms and profit goes up.
>>
>> Charge an installation fee to cover some of your upfront costs as well.
>> $199 seems reasonable if no other service is available.
>> Add in a managed router service (or anything you can think of to drive
>> ARPU up).
>>
>> Now your upfront for 20 customers = $4000 for radios and $6000 for sector
>> with backup. (you only need ONE backup BTW)
>> Second sector is only $7K for 20 customers.
>> And the beat goes on.
>>
>> $350/month for lease payment vs $1400 for incoming cash flow. I'd make
>> that deal every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
>>
>> But that's just me. :)
>>
>> YMMV.
>>
>> JP
>>
>> *On Wed, 30 May 2018 23:50:32 -0400, RickG wrote*
>> > CAMBIUM:
>> > Outlay: AP (x2 for backup) $5000 + CPE/Antenna (x 11) $4400 + Labor
>> $600 = TOTAL: $1 (not including bandwidth & support)Inflow: 10
>> customers @ $50/month = $500/month
>> > ROI (Not counting labor or any issues): 20 months
>> >
>> > UBNT:
>> > Outlay: AP ($250 (x2 for backup) $500 + CPE/Antenna (x11) $2750 + Labor
>> $600 = TOTAL: $3600
>> > Inflow: 10 customers @ $50/month = $500/month
>> > ROI (Not counting labor or any issues): 7.2 months
>> >
>> > That's a big difference, especially when you consider my ROI on LOS
>> subs is much, much less! 3 cheers for LOS! Too bad everyone is not LOS! :)
>> >
>> > On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 10:08 PM, J Portman  wrote:
>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> >
>>> > You think so? Take a look at ANY of the LTE solutions and then come
>>> talk about cost. :)
>>> >
>>> > 2500 for an AP seems steep, but amortizes VERY quickly with 10
>>> clients.
>>> >
>>> > JP
>>> >
>>> > *On Tue, 29 May 2018 23:58:02 -0400, RickG wrote*
>>> >
>>> > > Cambium 450i 900 is very pricey!
>>> > >
>>> > > On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 12:56 PM, Josh Luthman <
>>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>>> > >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> > > Cambium came out with their 450i in 900 in the last couple years.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Josh Luthman
>>>> > > Office: 937-552-2340
>>>> > > Direct: 937-552-2343
>>>> > > 1100 Wayne St
>>>> > > Suite 1337
>>>> > > Troy, OH 45373
>>>> > >
>>>> > > On Tue, May 29, 2018, 12:54 PM Clay Stewart <
>>>> cstew...@scsbroadband.com> wrote:
>>>> > >
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> > > What to expect with the best of experiences. Expect 4-10Mbps in
>>>>> foliage and at least 100' over treetops on a tower.  We have a bit of hill
>>>>> which makes the difference for eight over the terrain. I would be hard
>>>>> press to deploy in flat land with foliage. As with any frequency, it is
>>>>> Terrain, Terrain Terrain... and height.
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > Get recommendat

Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

[Blair Davis]

Us as well...

Cash is king.

--


On 5/31/2018 3:34 PM, Kees H. wrote:

Same here, makes it easier to make it through the downturns in the economy
*From:* RickG
*Sent:* Thursday, May 31, 2018 11:04 AM
*To:* Ubiquiti Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz
Ah, that's the difference between us - I run a debt free company.
On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 11:23 AM, J Portman  wrote:

Well, if there is no other service available, $50/month is too
low. :) SB able to charge more. Good price is $69.95.
$1*.035 = $350 month for 60 months. (and that is a VERY
expensive lease).
10 customers at $70 = $700/month. $350 profit off the jump.
Acceptable, but not 'juicy'. :)
20 customers at $70  = $1400/month (per sector) = $1000 profit per
month (per sector). Now we're talking.
We have hundreds of no-go site surveys that might work with 900 if
we can beat the interference from CPS Energy.
Get better lease terms and profit goes up.
Charge an installation fee to cover some of your upfront costs as
well. $199 seems reasonable if no other service is available.
Add in a managed router service (or anything you can think of to
drive ARPU up).
Now your upfront for 20 customers = $4000 for radios and $6000 for
sector with backup. (you only need ONE backup BTW)
Second sector is only $7K for 20 customers.
And the beat goes on.
$350/month for lease payment vs $1400 for incoming cash flow. I'd
make that deal every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
But that's just me. :)
YMMV.
JP
*On Wed, 30 May 2018 23:50:32 -0400, RickG wrote*
> CAMBIUM: 
> Outlay: AP (x2 for backup) $5000 + CPE/Antenna (x 11) $4400 +

Labor $600 = TOTAL: $1 (not including bandwidth &
support)Inflow: 10 customers @ $50/month = $500/month
> ROI (Not counting labor or any issues): 20 months
>
> UBNT:
> Outlay: AP ($250 (x2 for backup) $500 + CPE/Antenna (x11) $2750
+ Labor $600 = TOTAL: $3600
> Inflow: 10 customers @ $50/month = $500/month
> ROI (Not counting labor or any issues): 7.2 months
>
> That's a big difference, especially when you consider my ROI on
LOS subs is much, much less! 3 cheers for LOS! Too bad everyone is
not LOS! :)
>
> On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 10:08 PM, J Portman 
wrote:
>


>
> You think so? Take a look at ANY of the LTE solutions and
then come talk about cost. :)
>
> 2500 for an AP seems steep, but amortizes VERY quickly with
10 clients.
>
> JP
>
> *On Tue, 29 May 2018 23:58:02 -0400, RickG wrote*
>
> > Cambium 450i 900 is very pricey!
> >
> > On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 12:56 PM, Josh Luthman
 wrote:
> >


> > Cambium came out with their 450i in 900 in the last
couple years.
> >
> > Josh Luthman
> > Office: 937-552-2340
> > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > 1100 Wayne St
> > Suite 1337
> > Troy, OH 45373
> >
> > On Tue, May 29, 2018, 12:54 PM Clay Stewart
 wrote:
> >


> > What to expect with the best of experiences.
Expect 4-10Mbps in foliage and at least 100' over
treetops on a tower.  We have a bit of hill which
makes the difference for eight over the terrain. I
would be hard press to deploy in flat land with
foliage. As with any frequency, it is Terrain, Terrain
Terrain... and height.
> >
> > Get recommendations from someone who has similar
terrain, as opinions will always matter between those
WISPs in various conditions.
> >
> > If you have no pending competition in next 24-36
months and have customers that can only be serviced
via 900Mhz, then try it out. That is enough time to
recover investment and make something.
> >
> > I agree though, nothing has been done with 900Mhz
in a long time, not even a shielded radio like the
TIs, or a better, lighter sector shielding which costs
wind load and weight issue for commercial leases.
> >
> > We are converting from 900Mhz at a pace required
for each market where possible. But I expect we will
have them for awhile in many spots. Hell, we still
have a few Alvarians collecting money!
> >
  

Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

[RickG]

Thanks Tommy! What speeds are people seeing out there on the Cambium 900s?
I dont trust marketing hype so real word input is very valuable in asking
these types of decisions.

On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 3:42 PM, Tommy Adams  wrote:

> All I know is we install PMP450i 900 and we never visit the customer
> again.   Also, when you think about it, the equipment may cost 5k, but I
> would rather have 5 customers bringing in $250/month ($50 package) than the
> 5k.  Also, it is not uncommon for companies to charge a higher installation
> fee or slightly higher rates when using NLOS equipment.  The additional
> cost must be absorbed by the company or passed on to the consumer.  There
> are a number of wonderful lease to own deals out there that do not break
> the bank.  We have used Ascentium Capital in the past for emergency
> upgrades to all our wireless backhauls.  I know most everyone on here is a
> big UBNT fan, it is after all a UBNT forum, but some of their products are
> not very good.  This is one of them.  Talking to them at Wispapolooza last
> year, there does not sound like any upgrades are coming for the 900 or
> 3.65.  We have deployed Cambium PMP gear in both frequencies and are glad
> to spend the money.  It is a real jump in quality.  Now would I deploy
> PMP450 in a low end trailer park, not likely.  We use UBNT, PMP, ePMP and
> even some Mikrotik in our network.
>
>
>
> Good luck…
>
>
>
>
>
> ---
>
> Tommy Adams
>
> Network Administrator
>
> Digitex.com
>
>
>
> 817.558.6230 Voice
>
> 817.558.1204 Fax
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org  *On
> Behalf Of *RickG
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 31, 2018 1:42 PM
> *To:* Ubiquiti Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz
>
>
>
> JP, I apologize if you took my comment as a personal offense, it was not
> directed at you but rather I was sharing my experience in a moment of
> "weakness" :P
>
> Either way, no need to reply because we've definitely beaten this horse to
> death. That said, thanks again!
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 2:33 PM, J Portman  wrote:
>
> Easy enough to verify, the stock sale was registered with the SEC.
>
> 5 minutes of research on Google will give you a pretty good idea of who I
> am, what I own, etc.
>
> And, I think this is the last time I will ever respond to you, since I
> don't fancy being called a prevaricator.
>
> Please, please, please, ignore all my advice.
>
>
>
> JP
>
> *On Thu, 31 May 2018 14:26:18 -0400, RickG wrote*
>
> > JP, With all due respect, I know and have known many "millionaires" -
> until you see their balance sheet and realize they owe more than they own.
> With that said, if you've done better than they, then congratulations are
> in order. I do appreciate your input, so thanks for that!
> >
> > On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 2:11 PM, J Portman  wrote:
> >
>
>
> >
> > I became a multimillionaire through the judicious use of debt.
> >
> > Went from 0 to $2.1 million a year in 4.5 years, from 0 to 11000 dialup
> customers.
> > Could not have done it with cash. :)
> >
> > I have Jim Hollis (fispa) to thank for opening my eyes to cash flow
> based financing.
> >
> > Nothing major gets built without leverage.
> >
> > YMMV,
> > JP
> >
> > *On Thu, 31 May 2018 14:04:59 -0400, RickG wrote*
> >
> > > Ah, that's the difference between us - I run a debt free company.
> > >
> > > On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 11:23 AM, J Portman  wrote:
> > >
>
>
> > >
> > > Well, if there is no other service available, $50/month is too low. :)
> SB able to charge more. Good price is $69.95.
> > >
> > > $1*.035 = $350 month for 60 months. (and that is a VERY expensive
> lease).
> > >
> > > 10 customers at $70 = $700/month. $350 profit off the jump.
> Acceptable, but not 'juicy'. :)
> > >
> > > 20 customers at $70  = $1400/month (per sector) = $1000 profit per
> month (per sector). Now we're talking.
> > >
> > > We have hundreds of no-go site surveys that might work with 900 if we
> can beat the interference from CPS Energy.
> > >
> > > Get better lease terms and profit goes up.
> > >
> > > Charge an installation fee to cover some of your upfront costs as
> well. $199 seems reasonable if no other service is available.
> > > Add in a managed router service (or anything you can think of to drive
> ARPU up).
> > >
> > > Now your upfront for 20 customers = $4000 for 

Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

[Tommy Adams]

All I know is we install PMP450i 900 and we never visit the customer again.   
Also, when you think about it, the equipment may cost 5k, but I would rather 
have 5 customers bringing in $250/month ($50 package) than the 5k.  Also, it is 
not uncommon for companies to charge a higher installation fee or slightly 
higher rates when using NLOS equipment.  The additional cost must be absorbed 
by the company or passed on to the consumer.  There are a number of wonderful 
lease to own deals out there that do not break the bank.  We have used 
Ascentium Capital in the past for emergency upgrades to all our wireless 
backhauls.  I know most everyone on here is a big UBNT fan, it is after all a 
UBNT forum, but some of their products are not very good.  This is one of them. 
 Talking to them at Wispapolooza last year, there does not sound like any 
upgrades are coming for the 900 or 3.65.  We have deployed Cambium PMP gear in 
both frequencies and are glad to spend the money.  It is a real jump in 
quality.  Now would I deploy PMP450 in a low end trailer park, not likely.  We 
use UBNT, PMP, ePMP and even some Mikrotik in our network.

 

Good luck…

 

 

---

Tommy Adams

Network Administrator

Digitex.com

 

817.558.6230 Voice

817.558.1204 Fax

 

 

 

From: ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org  On Behalf Of 
RickG
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2018 1:42 PM
To: Ubiquiti Users Group 
Subject: Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

 

JP, I apologize if you took my comment as a personal offense, it was not 
directed at you but rather I was sharing my experience in a moment of 
"weakness" :P

Either way, no need to reply because we've definitely beaten this horse to 
death. That said, thanks again!  

 

On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 2:33 PM, J Portman mailto:ba...@baron.com> > wrote:

Easy enough to verify, the stock sale was registered with the SEC.

5 minutes of research on Google will give you a pretty good idea of who I am, 
what I own, etc.

And, I think this is the last time I will ever respond to you, since I don't 
fancy being called a prevaricator.

Please, please, please, ignore all my advice.

 

JP 

On Thu, 31 May 2018 14:26:18 -0400, RickG wrote

> JP, With all due respect, I know and have known many "millionaires" - until 
> you see their balance sheet and realize they owe more than they own. With 
> that said, if you've done better than they, then congratulations are in 
> order. I do appreciate your input, so thanks for that! 
> 
> On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 2:11 PM, J Portman < <mailto:ba...@baron.com> 
> ba...@baron.com> wrote: 
> 


> 
> I became a multimillionaire through the judicious use of debt. 
> 
> Went from 0 to $2.1 million a year in 4.5 years, from 0 to 11000 dialup 
> customers. 
> Could not have done it with cash. :) 
> 
> I have Jim Hollis (fispa) to thank for opening my eyes to cash flow based 
> financing. 
> 
> Nothing major gets built without leverage. 
> 
> YMMV, 
> JP 
> 
> On Thu, 31 May 2018 14:04:59 -0400, RickG wrote 
> 
> > Ah, that's the difference between us - I run a debt free company. 
> > 
> > On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 11:23 AM, J Portman < <mailto:ba...@baron.com> 
> > ba...@baron.com> wrote: 
> > 


> > 
> > Well, if there is no other service available, $50/month is too low. :) SB 
> > able to charge more. Good price is $69.95. 
> > 
> > $1*.035 = $350 month for 60 months. (and that is a VERY expensive 
> > lease). 
> > 
> > 10 customers at $70 = $700/month. $350 profit off the jump. Acceptable, but 
> > not 'juicy'. :) 
> > 
> > 20 customers at $70  = $1400/month (per sector) = $1000 profit per month 
> > (per sector). Now we're talking. 
> > 
> > We have hundreds of no-go site surveys that might work with 900 if we can 
> > beat the interference from CPS Energy. 
> > 
> > Get better lease terms and profit goes up. 
> > 
> > Charge an installation fee to cover some of your upfront costs as well. 
> > $199 seems reasonable if no other service is available. 
> > Add in a managed router service (or anything you can think of to drive ARPU 
> > up). 
> > 
> > Now your upfront for 20 customers = $4000 for radios and $6000 for sector 
> > with backup. (you only need ONE backup BTW) 
> > Second sector is only $7K for 20 customers. 
> > 
> > And the beat goes on. 
> > 
> > $350/month for lease payment vs $1400 for incoming cash flow. I'd make that 
> > deal every day of the week and twice on Sunday. 
> > 
> > But that's just me. :) 
> > 
> > YMMV. 
> > 
> > JP 
> > 
> > 
> > On Wed, 30 May 2018 23:50:32 -0400, RickG wrote > CAMBIUM: 
> > >

Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

[Kees H.]

Same here, makes it easier to make it through the downturns in the economy

From: RickG 
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2018 11:04 AM
To: Ubiquiti Users Group 
Subject: Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

Ah, that's the difference between us - I run a debt free company.

On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 11:23 AM, J Portman  wrote:

  Well, if there is no other service available, $50/month is too low. :) SB 
able to charge more. Good price is $69.95. 


  $1*.035 = $350 month for 60 months. (and that is a VERY expensive lease). 


  10 customers at $70 = $700/month. $350 profit off the jump. Acceptable, but 
not 'juicy'. :)

  20 customers at $70  = $1400/month (per sector) = $1000 profit per month (per 
sector). Now we're talking. 


  We have hundreds of no-go site surveys that might work with 900 if we can 
beat the interference from CPS Energy. 


  Get better lease terms and profit goes up.

  Charge an installation fee to cover some of your upfront costs as well. $199 
seems reasonable if no other service is available.
  Add in a managed router service (or anything you can think of to drive ARPU 
up). 


  Now your upfront for 20 customers = $4000 for radios and $6000 for sector 
with backup. (you only need ONE backup BTW)
  Second sector is only $7K for 20 customers. 

  And the beat goes on. 


  $350/month for lease payment vs $1400 for incoming cash flow. I'd make that 
deal every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

  But that's just me. :) 


  YMMV.

  JP 


  On Wed, 30 May 2018 23:50:32 -0400, RickG wrote
  > CAMBIUM: 
  > Outlay: AP (x2 for backup) $5000 + CPE/Antenna (x 11) $4400 + Labor $600 = 
TOTAL: $1 (not including bandwidth & support)Inflow: 10 customers @ 
$50/month = $500/month 
  > ROI (Not counting labor or any issues): 20 months 
  > 
  > UBNT: 
  > Outlay: AP ($250 (x2 for backup) $500 + CPE/Antenna (x11) $2750 + Labor 
$600 = TOTAL: $3600 
  > Inflow: 10 customers @ $50/month = $500/month 
  > ROI (Not counting labor or any issues): 7.2 months 
  > 
  > That's a big difference, especially when you consider my ROI on LOS subs is 
much, much less! 3 cheers for LOS! Too bad everyone is not LOS! :) 
  > 
  > On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 10:08 PM, J Portman  wrote: 
  > 

> 
> You think so? Take a look at ANY of the LTE solutions and then come talk 
about cost. :) 
> 
> 2500 for an AP seems steep, but amortizes VERY quickly with 10 clients. 
> 
> JP 
> 
> On Tue, 29 May 2018 23:58:02 -0400, RickG wrote 
> 

> > Cambium 450i 900 is very pricey! 
> > 
> > On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 12:56 PM, Josh Luthman 
 wrote: 
> > 

  > > Cambium came out with their 450i in 900 in the last couple years. 
  > > 
  > > Josh Luthman 
  > > Office: 937-552-2340 
  > > Direct: 937-552-2343 
  > > 1100 Wayne St 
  > > Suite 1337 
  > > Troy, OH 45373 
  > > 
  > > On Tue, May 29, 2018, 12:54 PM Clay Stewart 
 wrote: 
  > > 

> > What to expect with the best of experiences. Expect 4-10Mbps in 
foliage and at least 100' over treetops on a tower.  We have a bit of hill 
which makes the difference for eight over the terrain. I would be hard press to 
deploy in flat land with foliage. As with any frequency, it is Terrain, Terrain 
Terrain... and height. 
> > 
> > Get recommendations from someone who has similar terrain, as 
opinions will always matter between those WISPs in various conditions. 
> > 
> > If you have no pending competition in next 24-36 months and have 
customers that can only be serviced via 900Mhz, then try it out.  That is 
enough time to recover investment and make something. 
> > 
> > I agree though, nothing has been done with 900Mhz in a long time, 
not even a shielded radio like the TIs, or a better, lighter sector shielding 
which costs wind load and weight issue for commercial leases.  
> > 
> > We are converting from 900Mhz at a pace required for each market 
where possible. But I expect we will have them for awhile in many spots. Hell, 
we still have a few Alvarians collecting money! 
> > 
> > On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 10:09 AM, Clay Stewart 
 wrote: 
> > 

  > > You have to use Rocket Yagis with Shielded Sectors to make it 
work in foliage areas.  
  > > 
  > > On Sat, May 26, 2018 at 3:16 PM, Ralf-Talking Head Productions 
 wrote: 
  > > 

> > 
> > I am interested in Ubiquitie's 900Mhz radios and need real life 
experience input. 
> > 
> > Do they cut through heavy pine trees? 
> > What is the real distance I ca

Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

[RickG]

JP, I apologize if you took my comment as a personal offense, it was not
directed at you but rather I was sharing my experience in a moment of
"weakness" :P
Either way, no need to reply because we've definitely beaten this horse to
death. That said, thanks again!

On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 2:33 PM, J Portman  wrote:

> Easy enough to verify, the stock sale was registered with the SEC.
> 5 minutes of research on Google will give you a pretty good idea of who I
> am, what I own, etc.
> And, I think this is the last time I will ever respond to you, since I
> don't fancy being called a prevaricator.
> Please, please, please, ignore all my advice.
>
> JP
> *On Thu, 31 May 2018 14:26:18 -0400, RickG wrote*
> > JP, With all due respect, I know and have known many "millionaires" -
> until you see their balance sheet and realize they owe more than they own.
> With that said, if you've done better than they, then congratulations are
> in order. I do appreciate your input, so thanks for that!
> >
> > On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 2:11 PM, J Portman  wrote:
> >
>>
>>
>> >
>> > I became a multimillionaire through the judicious use of debt.
>> >
>> > Went from 0 to $2.1 million a year in 4.5 years, from 0 to 11000 dialup
>> customers.
>> > Could not have done it with cash. :)
>> >
>> > I have Jim Hollis (fispa) to thank for opening my eyes to cash flow
>> based financing.
>> >
>> > Nothing major gets built without leverage.
>> >
>> > YMMV,
>> > JP
>> >
>> > *On Thu, 31 May 2018 14:04:59 -0400, RickG wrote*
>> >
>> > > Ah, that's the difference between us - I run a debt free company.
>> > >
>> > > On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 11:23 AM, J Portman  wrote:
>> > >
>>>
>>>
>>> > >
>>> > > Well, if there is no other service available, $50/month is too low.
>>> :) SB able to charge more. Good price is $69.95.
>>> > >
>>> > > $1*.035 = $350 month for 60 months. (and that is a VERY
>>> expensive lease).
>>> > >
>>> > > 10 customers at $70 = $700/month. $350 profit off the jump.
>>> Acceptable, but not 'juicy'. :)
>>> > >
>>> > > 20 customers at $70  = $1400/month (per sector) = $1000 profit per
>>> month (per sector). Now we're talking.
>>> > >
>>> > > We have hundreds of no-go site surveys that might work with 900 if
>>> we can beat the interference from CPS Energy.
>>> > >
>>> > > Get better lease terms and profit goes up.
>>> > >
>>> > > Charge an installation fee to cover some of your upfront costs as
>>> well. $199 seems reasonable if no other service is available.
>>> > > Add in a managed router service (or anything you can think of to
>>> drive ARPU up).
>>> > >
>>> > > Now your upfront for 20 customers = $4000 for radios and $6000 for
>>> sector with backup. (you only need ONE backup BTW)
>>> > > Second sector is only $7K for 20 customers.
>>> > >
>>> > > And the beat goes on.
>>> > >
>>> > > $350/month for lease payment vs $1400 for incoming cash flow. I'd
>>> make that deal every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
>>> > >
>>> > > But that's just me. :)
>>> > >
>>> > > YMMV.
>>> > >
>>> > > JP
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > *On Wed, 30 May 2018 23:50:32 -0400, RickG wrote* > CAMBIUM:
>>> > > > Outlay: AP (x2 for backup) $5000 + CPE/Antenna (x 11) $4400 +
>>> Labor $600 = TOTAL: $1 (not including bandwidth & support)Inflow: 10
>>> customers @ $50/month = $500/month
>>> > > > ROI (Not counting labor or any issues): 20 months
>>> > > >
>>> > > > UBNT:
>>> > > > Outlay: AP ($250 (x2 for backup) $500 + CPE/Antenna (x11) $2750 +
>>> Labor $600 = TOTAL: $3600
>>> > > > Inflow: 10 customers @ $50/month = $500/month
>>> > > > ROI (Not counting labor or any issues): 7.2 months
>>> > > >
>>> > > > That's a big difference, especially when you consider my ROI on
>>> LOS subs is much, much less! 3 cheers for LOS! Too bad everyone is not LOS!
>>> :)
>>> > > >
>>> > > > On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 10:08 PM, J Portman 
>>> wrote:
>>> > > >


 > > >
 > > > You think so? Take a look at ANY of the LTE solutions and then
 come talk about cost. :)
 > > >
 > > > 2500 for an AP seems steep, but amortizes VERY quickly with 10
 clients.
 > > >
 > > > JP
 > > >
 > > > *On Tue, 29 May 2018 23:58:02 -0400, RickG wrote*
 > > >
 > >
 > > > > Cambium 450i 900 is very pricey!
 > > > >
 > > > > On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 12:56 PM, Josh Luthman <
 j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
 > > > >
>
>
> > > > > Cambium came out with their 450i in 900 in the last couple
> years.
> > > > >
> > > > > Josh Luthman
> > > > > Office: 937-552-2340
> > > > > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > > > > 1100 Wayne St
> > > > > Suite 1337
> > > > > Troy, OH 45373
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, May 29, 2018, 12:54 PM Clay Stewart <
> cstew...@scsbroadband.com> wrote:
> > > > >
>>
>>
>> > > > > What to expect with the best of experiences. Expect 4-10Mbps
>> in foliage and at least 100' over treetops on a tower.  We have a bit of
>> hill which makes the 

Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

[RickG]

Oh, I understand your comment now. No, never said weak, just frugal. I
thought I made this point clear but I'll say it again, I'd rather spend
$2500 towards a better ROI, that's all. If you make the numbers work out
for you needs then I'm happy for you. I simply prefer higher returns on my
investments. Thanks again.

On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 2:13 PM, J Portman  wrote:

> I'm just saying:
>
> "If your company is so weak financially that it cannot stand a $2500 loss
> occasionally, then you should pursue insurance".
>
> Then again, if you cannot scrape $2500 together in the first place, you
> are in the wrong business.
>
> JP
> *On Thu, 31 May 2018 14:03:19 -0400, Josh Luthman wrote*
> > Josh Luthman
> > Office: 937-552-2340
> > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > 1100 Wayne St
> > Suite 1337
> > Troy, OH 45373
> >
> > On Thu, May 31, 2018, 2:02 PM RickG  wrote:
> >
>>
>>
>> > Insurance? Would you turn in a claim for $2500 AP? Sounds like a reason
>> to get your rates raised or your account cancelled. Do you have better luck
>> with that?
>> >
>> > On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 1:39 AM, J Portman  wrote:
>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> >
>>> > This is why the lord made insurance. ;)
>>> >
>>> > JP
>>> >
>>> > *On Wed, 30 May 2018 23:24:52 -0400, RickG wrote* > Perhaps but my
>>> customers are not willing to pay ten times for the service! And while I've
>>> done everything possible to mitigate lightning and power surges one blown
>>> 450i will ruin a budget!
>>> > >
>>> > > On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 6:16 PM, Travis Allen <
>>> tra...@totalhighspeed.net> wrote:
>>> > >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> > > Cambium 900 450 is ten times better than ubiquiti!
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Sent from my iPhone
>>>> > >
>>>> > > On May 30, 2018, at 17:12, RickG  wrote:
>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> > >
>>>> > > The best price I can find is well over $2500. That's 10 times the
>>>> cost of a UBNT Rocket 900.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 2:48 PM, Rory Conaway <
>>>> r...@triadwireless.net> wrote:
>>>> > >
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > [UTF-8?][UTF-8?]It’s not too bad.  We have one up, might
>>>>> put up a second one.
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > Rory
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > *From:* ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org 
>>>>> *On Behalf Of *RickG
>>>>> > > *Sent:* Tuesday, May 29, 2018 8:58 PM
>>>>> > > *To:* Ubiquiti Users Group 
>>>>> > > *Subject:* Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz
>>>>> >
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > Cambium 450i 900 is very pricey!
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 12:56 PM, Josh Luthman <
>>>>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > Cambium came out with their 450i in 900 in the last couple years.
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > Josh Luthman
>>>>> > > Office: 937-552-2340
>>>>> > > Direct: 937-552-2343
>>>>> > > 1100 Wayne St
>>>>> > > Suite 1337
>>>>> > > Troy, OH 45373
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > On Tue, May 29, 2018, 12:54 PM Clay Stewart <
>>>>> cstew...@scsbroadband.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > What to expect with the best of experiences. Expect 4-10Mbps in
>>>>> foliage and at least 100' over treetops on a tower.  We have a bit of hill
>>>>> which makes the difference for eight over the terrain. I would be hard
>>>>> press to deploy in flat land with foliage. As with any frequency, it is
>>>>> Terrain, Terrain Terrain... and height.
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > Get recommendations from someone wh

Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

[J Portman]

Easy enough to verify, the stock sale was registered with the SEC.

5 minutes of research on Google will give you a pretty good idea of who I am, 
what I own, etc.

And, I think this is the last time I will ever respond to you, since I don't 
fancy being called a prevaricator.

Please, please, please, ignore all my advice.

JP

On Thu, 31 May 2018 14:26:18 -0400, RickG wrote

> JP, With all due respect, I know and have known many "millionaires" - until 
> you see their balance sheet and realize they owe more than they own. With 
> that said, if you've done better than they, then congratulations are in 
> order. I do appreciate your input, so thanks for that!
> 
> On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 2:11 PM, J Portman  wrote:
> 
> 
> I became a multimillionaire through the judicious use of debt. 
> 
> Went from 0 to $2.1 million a year in 4.5 years, from 0 to 11000 dialup 
> customers.
> Could not have done it with cash. :) 
> 
> I have Jim Hollis (fispa) to thank for opening my eyes to cash flow based 
> financing.
> 
> Nothing major gets built without leverage.
> 
> YMMV,
> JP
> 
> On Thu, 31 May 2018 14:04:59 -0400, RickG wrote
> 
> > Ah, that's the difference between us - I run a debt free company.
> > 
> > On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 11:23 AM, J Portman  wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > Well, if there is no other service available, $50/month is too low. :) SB 
> > able to charge more. Good price is $69.95.
> > 
> > $1*.035 = $350 month for 60 months. (and that is a VERY expensive 
> > lease).
> > 
> > 10 customers at $70 = $700/month. $350 profit off the jump. Acceptable, but 
> > not 'juicy'. :)
> > 
> > 20 customers at $70  = $1400/month (per sector) = $1000 profit per month 
> > (per sector). Now we're talking.
> > 
> > We have hundreds of no-go site surveys that might work with 900 if we can 
> > beat the interference from CPS Energy.
> > 
> > Get better lease terms and profit goes up.
> > 
> > Charge an installation fee to cover some of your upfront costs as well. 
> > $199 seems reasonable if no other service is available.
> > Add in a managed router service (or anything you can think of to drive ARPU 
> > up).
> > 
> > Now your upfront for 20 customers = $4000 for radios and $6000 for sector 
> > with backup. (you only need ONE backup BTW)
> > Second sector is only $7K for 20 customers. 
> > 
> > And the beat goes on.
> > 
> > $350/month for lease payment vs $1400 for incoming cash flow. I'd make that 
> > deal every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
> > 
> > But that's just me. :)
> > 
> > YMMV.
> > 
> > JP
> > 
> > 
> > On Wed, 30 May 2018 23:50:32 -0400, RickG wrote> CAMBIUM:
> > > Outlay: AP (x2 for backup) $5000 + CPE/Antenna (x 11) $4400 + Labor $600 
> > > = TOTAL: $1 (not including bandwidth & support)Inflow: 10 customers @ 
> > > $50/month = $500/month
> > > ROI (Not counting labor or any issues): 20 months
> > > 
> > > UBNT:
> > > Outlay: AP ($250 (x2 for backup) $500 + CPE/Antenna (x11) $2750 + Labor 
> > > $600 = TOTAL: $3600
> > > Inflow: 10 customers @ $50/month = $500/month
> > > ROI (Not counting labor or any issues): 7.2 months
> > > 
> > > That's a big difference, especially when you consider my ROI on LOS subs 
> > > is much, much less! 3 cheers for LOS! Too bad everyone is not LOS! :)
> > > 
> > > On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 10:08 PM, J Portman  wrote:
> > > 
> > > 
> > > You think so? Take a look at ANY of the LTE solutions and then come talk 
> > > about cost. :)
> > > 
> > > 2500 for an AP seems steep, but amortizes VERY quickly with 10 clients.
> > > 
> > > JP
> > > 
> > > On Tue, 29 May 2018 23:58:02 -0400, RickG wrote
> > > 
> > 
> > > > Cambium 450i 900 is very pricey!
> > > > 
> > > > On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 12:56 PM, Josh Luthman 
> > > >  wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > Cambium came out with their 450i in 900 in the last couple years.
> > > > 
> > > > Josh Luthman
> > > > Office: 937-552-2340
> > > > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > > > 1100 Wayne St
> > > > Suite 1337
> > > > Troy, OH 45373
> > > > 
> > > > On Tue, May 29, 2018, 12:54 PM Clay Stewart  
> > > > wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > What to expect with the best of experiences. Expect 4-10Mbps in foliage 
> > > > and at least 100' over treetops on a tower.  We have a bit of hill 
> > > > which makes the difference for eight over the terrain. I would be hard 
> > > > press to deploy in flat land with foliage. As with any frequency, it is 
> > > > Terrain, Terrain Terrain... and height.
> > > > 
> > > > Get recommendations from someone who has similar terrain, as opinions 
> > > > will always matter between those WISPs in various conditions.
> > > > 
> > > > If you have no pending competition in next 24-36 months and have 
> > > > customers that can only be serviced via 900Mhz, then try it out.  That 
> > > > is enough time to recover investment and make something.
> > > > 
> > > > I agree though, nothing has been done with 900Mhz in a long time, not 
> > > > even a shielded radio like the TIs, or a better, lighter sector 
> > > > shielding which costs 

Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

[RickG]

JP, With all due respect, I know and have known many "millionaires" - until
you see their balance sheet and realize they owe more than they own. With
that said, if you've done better than they, then congratulations are in
order. I do appreciate your input, so thanks for that!

On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 2:11 PM, J Portman  wrote:

> I became a multimillionaire through the judicious use of debt.
> Went from 0 to $2.1 million a year in 4.5 years, from 0 to 11000 dialup
> customers.
> Could not have done it with cash. :)
> I have Jim Hollis (fispa) to thank for opening my eyes to cash flow based
> financing.
>
> Nothing major gets built without leverage.
>
> YMMV,
> JP
>
> *On Thu, 31 May 2018 14:04:59 -0400, RickG wrote*
> > Ah, that's the difference between us - I run a debt free company.
> >
> > On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 11:23 AM, J Portman  wrote:
> >
>>
>>
>> >
>> > Well, if there is no other service available, $50/month is too low. :)
>> SB able to charge more. Good price is $69.95.
>> >
>> > $1*.035 = $350 month for 60 months. (and that is a VERY expensive
>> lease).
>> >
>> > 10 customers at $70 = $700/month. $350 profit off the jump. Acceptable,
>> but not 'juicy'. :)
>> >
>> > 20 customers at $70  = $1400/month (per sector) = $1000 profit per
>> month (per sector). Now we're talking.
>> >
>> > We have hundreds of no-go site surveys that might work with 900 if we
>> can beat the interference from CPS Energy.
>> >
>> > Get better lease terms and profit goes up.
>> >
>> > Charge an installation fee to cover some of your upfront costs as well.
>> $199 seems reasonable if no other service is available.
>> > Add in a managed router service (or anything you can think of to drive
>> ARPU up).
>> >
>> > Now your upfront for 20 customers = $4000 for radios and $6000 for
>> sector with backup. (you only need ONE backup BTW)
>> > Second sector is only $7K for 20 customers.
>> >
>> > And the beat goes on.
>> >
>> > $350/month for lease payment vs $1400 for incoming cash flow. I'd make
>> that deal every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
>> >
>> > But that's just me. :)
>> >
>> > YMMV.
>> >
>> > JP
>> >
>> >
>> > *On Wed, 30 May 2018 23:50:32 -0400, RickG wrote* > CAMBIUM:
>> > > Outlay: AP (x2 for backup) $5000 + CPE/Antenna (x 11) $4400 + Labor
>> $600 = TOTAL: $1 (not including bandwidth & support)Inflow: 10
>> customers @ $50/month = $500/month
>> > > ROI (Not counting labor or any issues): 20 months
>> > >
>> > > UBNT:
>> > > Outlay: AP ($250 (x2 for backup) $500 + CPE/Antenna (x11) $2750 +
>> Labor $600 = TOTAL: $3600
>> > > Inflow: 10 customers @ $50/month = $500/month
>> > > ROI (Not counting labor or any issues): 7.2 months
>> > >
>> > > That's a big difference, especially when you consider my ROI on LOS
>> subs is much, much less! 3 cheers for LOS! Too bad everyone is not LOS! :)
>> > >
>> > > On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 10:08 PM, J Portman  wrote:
>> > >
>>>
>>>
>>> > >
>>> > > You think so? Take a look at ANY of the LTE solutions and then come
>>> talk about cost. :)
>>> > >
>>> > > 2500 for an AP seems steep, but amortizes VERY quickly with 10
>>> clients.
>>> > >
>>> > > JP
>>> > >
>>> > > *On Tue, 29 May 2018 23:58:02 -0400, RickG wrote*
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> > > > Cambium 450i 900 is very pricey!
>>> > > >
>>> > > > On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 12:56 PM, Josh Luthman <
>>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>>> > > >


 > > > Cambium came out with their 450i in 900 in the last couple years.
 > > >
 > > > Josh Luthman
 > > > Office: 937-552-2340
 > > > Direct: 937-552-2343
 > > > 1100 Wayne St
 > > > Suite 1337
 > > > Troy, OH 45373
 > > >
 > > > On Tue, May 29, 2018, 12:54 PM Clay Stewart <
 cstew...@scsbroadband.com> wrote:
 > > >
>
>
> > > > What to expect with the best of experiences. Expect 4-10Mbps in
> foliage and at least 100' over treetops on a tower.  We have a bit of hill
> which makes the difference for eight over the terrain. I would be hard
> press to deploy in flat land with foliage. As with any frequency, it is
> Terrain, Terrain Terrain... and height.
> > > >
> > > > Get recommendations from someone who has similar terrain, as
> opinions will always matter between those WISPs in various conditions.
> > > >
> > > > If you have no pending competition in next 24-36 months and have
> customers that can only be serviced via 900Mhz, then try it out.  That is
> enough time to recover investment and make something.
> > > >
> > > > I agree though, nothing has been done with 900Mhz in a long
> time, not even a shielded radio like the TIs, or a better, lighter sector
> shielding which costs wind load and weight issue for commercial leases.
> > > >
> > > > We are converting from 900Mhz at a pace required for each market
> where possible. But I expect we will have them for awhile in many spots.
> Hell, we still have a few Alvarians collecting money!
> > 

Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

[RickG]

It's a problem I'm very familiar with ;)

On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 1:34 PM, J Portman  wrote:

> Having more installs than we can handle is a _good_ problem. :)
>
> YMMV,
> JP
> On Thu, 31 May 2018 13:12:46 -0400, Josh Luthman wrote
> > >$350/month for lease payment vs $1400 for incoming cash flow
> >
> > Where are you seeing 2 year ROI?  With 5 customers you're breaking
> > even, that's like 2 days of installs.  With 20 customers you're more
> > than profitable.
> >
> > This is exactly how we got started building a profitable business (this
> > idea actually came from Travis Johnson).  These days we basically
> > get free money from the credit union via prime rate loan, it's
> > something like $125 per $20k?
> >
> > Josh Luthman
> > Office: 937-552-2340
> > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > 1100 Wayne St
> > Suite 1337
> > Troy, OH 45373
> >
> > On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 1:08 PM, RickG  wrote:
> >
> > > JP,
> > >
> > > Respectively, I'm not totally disagreeing with you but it's an
> interesting
> > > discussion!
> > >
> > > Sure, typically less than a 2 year payback is considered fair by many
> but
> > > my point is that I can get a faster ROI on UBNT and near immediate
> payback
> > > on LOS customers. There are only so many hours a day so I seriously
> > > consider where I spend my resources for the best ROI. I do totally
> agree
> > > with you that you probably have a better chance of keeping customers
> should
> > > any serious competition come into the area. I also agree that you may
> be
> > > able to get UBNT no-go customers. On that note, I'd love to hear how
> that
> > > point is going for you!
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 1:38 AM, J Portman  wrote:
> > >
> > >> So, less than two years payback on 10 subs. Without borrowing a dime.
> > >> Now, jump it up to real world numbers, 20 subs or more.
> > >> Now, finance the equipment with the extra cash flow you now have.
> > >>
> > >> Many, many companies are happy with 10 year payback. 20 months is
> pretty
> > >> good. Sure, you're used to 'disruptive' numbers (and so are we).
> > >>
> > >> But we dropped 100K on Telrad to service about 100 customers.
> > >> Not the best deal I ever made, but $6900/month sure does service a
> 100K
> > >> note with LOTS left over. :)
> > >>
> > >> Plus, with the better equipment, you might actually stand a chance of
> > >> keeping those customers.
> > >>
> > >> We dropped UBNT 900 years ago. Just too slow.
> > >>
> > >> Cambium is a whole 'nother ball game. I have dozens (if not over a
> > >> hundred) no go site surveys that a 450 Cambium might be able to
> service.
> > >> I will be looking into them.
> > >>
> > >> Just a thought.
> > >>
> > >> JP
> > >>
> > >> *On Wed, 30 May 2018 23:50:32 -0400, RickG wrote*
> > >> > CAMBIUM:
> > >> > Outlay: AP (x2 for backup) $5000 + CPE/Antenna (x 11) $4400 + Labor
> > >> $600 = TOTAL: $1 (not including bandwidth & support)Inflow: 10
> > >> customers @ $50/month = $500/month
> > >> > ROI (Not counting labor or any issues): 20 months
> > >> >
> > >> > UBNT:
> > >> > Outlay: AP ($250 (x2 for backup) $500 + CPE/Antenna (x11) $2750 +
> Labor
> > >> $600 = TOTAL: $3600
> > >> > Inflow: 10 customers @ $50/month = $500/month
> > >> > ROI (Not counting labor or any issues): 7.2 months
> > >> >
> > >> > That's a big difference, especially when you consider my ROI on LOS
> > >> subs is much, much less! 3 cheers for LOS! Too bad everyone is not
> LOS! :)
> > >> >
> > >> > On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 10:08 PM, J Portman 
> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> >
> > >>> > You think so? Take a look at ANY of the LTE solutions and then
> come
> > >>> talk about cost. :)
> > >>> >
> > >>> > 2500 for an AP seems steep, but amortizes VERY quickly with 10
> > >>> clients.
> > >>> >
> > >>> > JP
> > >>> >
> > >>> > *On Tue, 29 May 2018 23:58:02 -0400, RickG wrote*
> > >>> >
> > >>> > > Cambium 450i 900 is very pricey!
> > >>> > >
> > >>> > > On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 12:56 PM, Josh Luthman <
> > >>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
> > >>> > >
> > 
> > 
> >  > > Cambium came out with their 450i in 900 in the last couple
> years.
> >  > >
> >  > > Josh Luthman
> >  > > Office: 937-552-2340
> >  > > Direct: 937-552-2343
> >  > > 1100 Wayne St
> >  > > Suite 1337
> >  > > Troy, OH 45373
> >  > >
> >  > > On Tue, May 29, 2018, 12:54 PM Clay Stewart <
> >  cstew...@scsbroadband.com> wrote:
> >  > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > > What to expect with the best of experiences. Expect 4-10Mbps
> in
> > > foliage and at least 100' over treetops on a tower.  We have a bit
> of hill
> > > which makes the difference for eight over the terrain. I would be
> hard
> > > press to deploy in flat land with foliage. As with any frequency,
> it is
> > > Terrain, Terrain Terrain... and height.
> > > > >
> > > > > Get recommendations from someone who has similar terrain, as
> > > opinions will always matter between those WISPs in 

Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

[RickG]

Josh, You need to purchase the equipment. Obviously, if your leasing you
may not have any outlay other than labor. I'm a fan of Travis Johnson's but
you've got it be very careful with debt. Being debt free, I dont have to
worry about servicing that debt and can lower my customer plans to
$9.99/month if I want to :)

On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 1:12 PM, Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> >$350/month for lease payment vs $1400 for incoming cash flow
>
> Where are you seeing 2 year ROI?  With 5 customers you're breaking even,
> that's like 2 days of installs.  With 20 customers you're more than
> profitable.
>
> This is exactly how we got started building a profitable business (this
> idea actually came from Travis Johnson).  These days we basically get free
> money from the credit union via prime rate loan, it's something like $125
> per $20k?
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 1:08 PM, RickG  wrote:
>
>> JP,
>>
>> Respectively, I'm not totally disagreeing with you but it's an
>> interesting discussion!
>>
>> Sure, typically less than a 2 year payback is considered fair by many but
>> my point is that I can get a faster ROI on UBNT and near immediate payback
>> on LOS customers. There are only so many hours a day so I seriously
>> consider where I spend my resources for the best ROI. I do totally agree
>> with you that you probably have a better chance of keeping customers should
>> any serious competition come into the area. I also agree that you may be
>> able to get UBNT no-go customers. On that note, I'd love to hear how that
>> point is going for you!
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 1:38 AM, J Portman  wrote:
>>
>>> So, less than two years payback on 10 subs. Without borrowing a dime.
>>> Now, jump it up to real world numbers, 20 subs or more.
>>> Now, finance the equipment with the extra cash flow you now have.
>>>
>>> Many, many companies are happy with 10 year payback. 20 months is pretty
>>> good. Sure, you're used to 'disruptive' numbers (and so are we).
>>>
>>> But we dropped 100K on Telrad to service about 100 customers.
>>> Not the best deal I ever made, but $6900/month sure does service a 100K
>>> note with LOTS left over. :)
>>>
>>> Plus, with the better equipment, you might actually stand a chance of
>>> keeping those customers.
>>>
>>> We dropped UBNT 900 years ago. Just too slow.
>>>
>>> Cambium is a whole 'nother ball game. I have dozens (if not over a
>>> hundred) no go site surveys that a 450 Cambium might be able to service.
>>> I will be looking into them.
>>>
>>> Just a thought.
>>>
>>> JP
>>>
>>> *On Wed, 30 May 2018 23:50:32 -0400, RickG wrote*
>>> > CAMBIUM:
>>> > Outlay: AP (x2 for backup) $5000 + CPE/Antenna (x 11) $4400 + Labor
>>> $600 = TOTAL: $1 (not including bandwidth & support)Inflow: 10
>>> customers @ $50/month = $500/month
>>> > ROI (Not counting labor or any issues): 20 months
>>> >
>>> > UBNT:
>>> > Outlay: AP ($250 (x2 for backup) $500 + CPE/Antenna (x11) $2750 +
>>> Labor $600 = TOTAL: $3600
>>> > Inflow: 10 customers @ $50/month = $500/month
>>> > ROI (Not counting labor or any issues): 7.2 months
>>> >
>>> > That's a big difference, especially when you consider my ROI on LOS
>>> subs is much, much less! 3 cheers for LOS! Too bad everyone is not LOS! :)
>>> >
>>> > On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 10:08 PM, J Portman  wrote:
>>> >


 >
 > You think so? Take a look at ANY of the LTE solutions and then come
 talk about cost. :)
 >
 > 2500 for an AP seems steep, but amortizes VERY quickly with 10
 clients.
 >
 > JP
 >
 > *On Tue, 29 May 2018 23:58:02 -0400, RickG wrote*
 >
 > > Cambium 450i 900 is very pricey!
 > >
 > > On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 12:56 PM, Josh Luthman <
 j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
 > >
>
>
> > > Cambium came out with their 450i in 900 in the last couple years.
> > >
> > > Josh Luthman
> > > Office: 937-552-2340
> > > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > > 1100 Wayne St
> > > Suite 1337
> > > Troy, OH 45373
> > >
> > > On Tue, May 29, 2018, 12:54 PM Clay Stewart <
> cstew...@scsbroadband.com> wrote:
> > >
>>
>>
>> > > What to expect with the best of experiences. Expect 4-10Mbps in
>> foliage and at least 100' over treetops on a tower.  We have a bit of 
>> hill
>> which makes the difference for eight over the terrain. I would be hard
>> press to deploy in flat land with foliage. As with any frequency, it is
>> Terrain, Terrain Terrain... and height.
>> > >
>> > > Get recommendations from someone who has similar terrain, as
>> opinions will always matter between those WISPs in various conditions.
>> > >
>> > > If you have no pending competition in next 24-36 months and have
>> customers that can only be serviced via 900Mhz, then try it out.  That is
>> enough time to recover investment and 

Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

[RickG]

David, I agree with your points which is why I jumped on this discussion.
Rather than answer your individual questions I can tell you that basically
I do nothing for my 900 subs - it's "take it or leave it". However, I'm
focusing my resources towards LOS customers where the better ROI is and
letting the NON-LOS go to satellite. That said, I'm all ears on the Cambium
but the question is: Does it really fix all the issues you mention?
Thanks!

On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 7:29 AM, David Jones  wrote:

> Rick,
>
> I believe that most of us have been there where quality takes a back seat
> to cost. However there is much more cost that comes with going cheap over
> quality.
>
> What about support calls for slow speed?
> What about truck rolls for slow speed?
> What about calls for netflix, hulu, youtube, twitch, ect. not working or
> buffering? Everyone knows the Internet is for TV replacement.--- Sadly this
> is becoming less and less sarcastic every day.
> What about the lost customers who get fed up with your slow service and
> complain to their neighbors?
> What do you do if you get more than 15 people in a 10 mile radius
> interested in the service?
> What do you do when a customer wants to pay you $80 for more than 5mbps
> service to stream more than one device?
> What about the time explaining that they can't get faster service like
> their friend that is on your service down the road?
>
> All these problems and costs are already covered with the 450i
>
> On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 11:39 PM, J Portman  wrote:
>
>> This is why the lord made insurance. ;)
>>
>> JP
>> *On Wed, 30 May 2018 23:24:52 -0400, RickG wrote*
>> > Perhaps but my customers are not willing to pay ten times for the
>> service! And while I've done everything possible to mitigate lightning and
>> power surges one blown 450i will ruin a budget!
>> >
>> > On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 6:16 PM, Travis Allen <
>> tra...@totalhighspeed.net> wrote:
>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> > Cambium 900 450 is ten times better than ubiquiti!
>>> >
>>> > Sent from my iPhone
>>> >
>>> > On May 30, 2018, at 17:12, RickG  wrote:
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> >
>>> > The best price I can find is well over $2500. That's 10 times the cost
>>> of a UBNT Rocket 900.
>>> >
>>> > On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 2:48 PM, Rory Conaway 
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>> > [UTF-8?]It’s not too bad.  We have one up, might put up a second
>>>> one.
>>>> >
>>>> > Rory
>>>> >
>>>> > *From:* ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org  *On
>>>> Behalf Of *RickG
>>>> > *Sent:* Tuesday, May 29, 2018 8:58 PM
>>>> > *To:* Ubiquiti Users Group 
>>>> > *Subject:* Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Cambium 450i 900 is very pricey!
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 12:56 PM, Josh Luthman <
>>>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>> > Cambium came out with their 450i in 900 in the last couple years.
>>>> >
>>>> > Josh Luthman
>>>> > Office: 937-552-2340
>>>> > Direct: 937-552-2343
>>>> > 1100 Wayne St
>>>> > Suite 1337
>>>> > Troy, OH 45373
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > On Tue, May 29, 2018, 12:54 PM Clay Stewart <
>>>> cstew...@scsbroadband.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>> > What to expect with the best of experiences. Expect 4-10Mbps in
>>>> foliage and at least 100' over treetops on a tower.  We have a bit of hill
>>>> which makes the difference for eight over the terrain. I would be hard
>>>> press to deploy in flat land with foliage. As with any frequency, it is
>>>> Terrain, Terrain Terrain... and height.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Get recommendations from someone who has similar terrain, as opinions
>>>> will always matter between those WISPs in various conditions.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > If you have no pending competition in next 24-36 months and have
>>>> customers that can only be serviced via 900Mhz, then try it out.  That is
>

Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

[J Portman]

I'm just saying:

"If your company is so weak financially that it cannot stand a $2500 loss 
occasionally, then you should pursue insurance".

Then again, if you cannot scrape $2500 together in the first place, you are in 
the wrong business.

JP

On Thu, 31 May 2018 14:03:19 -0400, Josh Luthman wrote

> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> 
> On Thu, May 31, 2018, 2:02 PM RickG  wrote:
> 
> Insurance? Would you turn in a claim for $2500 AP? Sounds like a reason to 
> get your rates raised or your account cancelled. Do you have better luck with 
> that?
> 
> On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 1:39 AM, J Portman  wrote:
> 
> 
> This is why the lord made insurance. ;)
> 
> JP
> 
> On Wed, 30 May 2018 23:24:52 -0400, RickG wrote> Perhaps but my customers are 
> not willing to pay ten times for the service! And while I've done everything 
> possible to mitigate lightning and power surges one blown 450i will ruin a 
> budget!
> > 
> > On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 6:16 PM, Travis Allen  
> > wrote:
> > 
> > Cambium 900 450 is ten times better than ubiquiti!
> > 
> > Sent from my iPhone
> > 
> > On May 30, 2018, at 17:12, RickG  wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > The best price I can find is well over $2500. That's 10 times the cost of a 
> > UBNT Rocket 900. 
> > 
> > On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 2:48 PM, Rory Conaway  
> > wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > [UTF-8?][UTF-8?]It’s not too bad.  We have one up, might put up a 
> > second one.
> >  
> > Rory
> >  
> > From: ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org On Behalf 
> > Of RickG
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2018 8:58 PM
> > To: Ubiquiti Users Group 
> > Subject: Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz
> 
> >  
> > 
> > Cambium 450i 900 is very pricey!
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 12:56 PM, Josh Luthman 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > Cambium came out with their 450i in 900 in the last couple years.
> > 
> > Josh Luthman
> > Office: 937-552-2340
> > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > 1100 Wayne St
> > Suite 1337
> > Troy, OH 45373
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > On Tue, May 29, 2018, 12:54 PM Clay Stewart  
> > wrote:
> > 
> > What to expect with the best of experiences. Expect 4-10Mbps in foliage and 
> > at least 100' over treetops on a tower.  We have a bit of hill which makes 
> > the difference for eight over the terrain. I would be hard press to deploy 
> > in flat landwith foliage. As with any frequency, it is Terrain, Terrain 
> > Terrain... and height.
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Get recommendations from someone who has similar terrain, as opinions will 
> > always matter between those WISPs in various conditions.
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > If you have no pending competition in next 24-36 months and have customers 
> > that can only be serviced via 900Mhz, then try it out.  That is enough time 
> > to recover investment and make something.
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > I agree though, nothing has been done with 900Mhz in a long time, not even 
> > a shielded radio like the TIs, or a better, lighter sector shielding which 
> > costs wind load and weight issue for commercial leases. 
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > We are converting from 900Mhz at a pace required for each market where 
> > possible. But I expect we will have them for awhile in many spots. Hell, we 
> > still have a few Alvarians collecting money!
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 10:09 AM, Clay Stewart  
> > wrote:
> > 
> > You have to use Rocket Yagis with Shielded Sectors to make it work in 
> > foliage areas. 
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > On Sat, May 26, 2018 at 3:16 PM, Ralf-Talking Head Productions 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > I am interested in Ubiquitie's 900Mhz radios and need real life experience 
> > input.
> > Do they cut through heavy pine trees? 
> > What is the real distance I can archive through pine trees?
> > Does it have sufficient bandwidth throughput?
> > I have 3 customers who would like to sign up. They are about one mile away 
> > from the tower. The distance is through heavy pine trees about 80 to 100 
> > feet tall. Any suggestions?
> > Thank you in advance for your reply.
> > 
> > Ralf
> > Gulf Wireless Inc.
> > 
> > ___
> > Ubnt_users mailing list
> > Ubnt_users@wispa.org
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/ubnt_

Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

[J Portman]

I became a multimillionaire through the judicious use of debt.

Went from 0 to $2.1 million a year in 4.5 years, from 0 to 11000 dialup 
customers.

Could not have done it with cash. :)

I have Jim Hollis (fispa) to thank for opening my eyes to cash flow based 
financing.

Nothing major gets built without leverage.

YMMV,

JP

On Thu, 31 May 2018 14:04:59 -0400, RickG wrote

> Ah, that's the difference between us - I run a debt free company.
> 
> On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 11:23 AM, J Portman  wrote:
> 
> 
> Well, if there is no other service available, $50/month is too low. :) SB 
> able to charge more. Good price is $69.95.
> 
> $1*.035 = $350 month for 60 months. (and that is a VERY expensive lease).
> 
> 10 customers at $70 = $700/month. $350 profit off the jump. Acceptable, but 
> not 'juicy'. :)
> 
> 20 customers at $70  = $1400/month (per sector) = $1000 profit per month (per 
> sector). Now we're talking.
> 
> We have hundreds of no-go site surveys that might work with 900 if we can 
> beat the interference from CPS Energy.
> 
> Get better lease terms and profit goes up.
> 
> Charge an installation fee to cover some of your upfront costs as well. $199 
> seems reasonable if no other service is available.
> Add in a managed router service (or anything you can think of to drive ARPU 
> up).
> 
> Now your upfront for 20 customers = $4000 for radios and $6000 for sector 
> with backup. (you only need ONE backup BTW)
> Second sector is only $7K for 20 customers. 
> 
> And the beat goes on.
> 
> $350/month for lease payment vs $1400 for incoming cash flow. I'd make that 
> deal every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
> 
> But that's just me. :)
> 
> YMMV.
> 
> JP
> 
> 
> On Wed, 30 May 2018 23:50:32 -0400, RickG wrote> CAMBIUM:
> > Outlay: AP (x2 for backup) $5000 + CPE/Antenna (x 11) $4400 + Labor $600 = 
> > TOTAL: $1 (not including bandwidth & support)Inflow: 10 customers @ 
> > $50/month = $500/month
> > ROI (Not counting labor or any issues): 20 months
> > 
> > UBNT:
> > Outlay: AP ($250 (x2 for backup) $500 + CPE/Antenna (x11) $2750 + Labor 
> > $600 = TOTAL: $3600
> > Inflow: 10 customers @ $50/month = $500/month
> > ROI (Not counting labor or any issues): 7.2 months
> > 
> > That's a big difference, especially when you consider my ROI on LOS subs is 
> > much, much less! 3 cheers for LOS! Too bad everyone is not LOS! :)
> > 
> > On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 10:08 PM, J Portman  wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > You think so? Take a look at ANY of the LTE solutions and then come talk 
> > about cost. :)
> > 
> > 2500 for an AP seems steep, but amortizes VERY quickly with 10 clients.
> > 
> > JP
> > 
> > On Tue, 29 May 2018 23:58:02 -0400, RickG wrote
> > 
> 
> > > Cambium 450i 900 is very pricey!
> > > 
> > > On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 12:56 PM, Josh Luthman 
> > >  wrote:
> > > 
> > > Cambium came out with their 450i in 900 in the last couple years.
> > > 
> > > Josh Luthman
> > > Office: 937-552-2340
> > > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > > 1100 Wayne St
> > > Suite 1337
> > > Troy, OH 45373
> > > 
> > > On Tue, May 29, 2018, 12:54 PM Clay Stewart  
> > > wrote:
> > > 
> > > What to expect with the best of experiences. Expect 4-10Mbps in foliage 
> > > and at least 100' over treetops on a tower.  We have a bit of hill which 
> > > makes the difference for eight over the terrain. I would be hard press to 
> > > deploy in flat land with foliage. As with any frequency, it is Terrain, 
> > > Terrain Terrain... and height.
> > > 
> > > Get recommendations from someone who has similar terrain, as opinions 
> > > will always matter between those WISPs in various conditions.
> > > 
> > > If you have no pending competition in next 24-36 months and have 
> > > customers that can only be serviced via 900Mhz, then try it out.  That is 
> > > enough time to recover investment and make something.
> > > 
> > > I agree though, nothing has been done with 900Mhz in a long time, not 
> > > even a shielded radio like the TIs, or a better, lighter sector shielding 
> > > which costs wind load and weight issue for commercial leases. 
> > > 
> > > We are converting from 900Mhz at a pace required for each market where 
> > > possible. But I expect we will have them for awhile in many spots. Hell, 
> > > we still have a few Alvarians collecting money!
> > > 
> > > On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 10:09 AM, Clay Stewart 
> > >  wrote:
> > > 
> > > You have to use Rocket Yagis with Shielded Sectors to make it work in 
> > > foliage areas. 
> > > 
> > > On Sat, May 26, 2018 at 3:16 PM, Ralf-Talking Head Productions 
> > >  wrote:
> > > 
> > > 
> > > I am interested in Ubiquitie's 900Mhz radios and need real lifeexperience 
> > > input.
> > > 
> > > Do they cut through heavy pine trees? 
> > > What is the real distance I can archive through pine trees?
> > > Does it have sufficient bandwidth throughput?
> > > I have 3 customers who would like to sign up. They are about onemile away 
> > > from the tower. The distance is through heavy pine treesabout 80 

Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

[Josh Luthman]

Slower growing.  That's your choice :)

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, May 31, 2018, 2:05 PM RickG  wrote:

> Ah, that's the difference between us - I run a debt free company.
>
> On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 11:23 AM, J Portman  wrote:
>
>> Well, if there is no other service available, $50/month is too low. :) SB
>> able to charge more. Good price is $69.95.
>>
>> $1*.035 = $350 month for 60 months. (and that is a VERY expensive
>> lease).
>>
>> 10 customers at $70 = $700/month. $350 profit off the jump. Acceptable,
>> but not 'juicy'. :)
>>
>> 20 customers at $70  = $1400/month (per sector) = $1000 profit per month
>> (per sector). Now we're talking.
>>
>> We have hundreds of no-go site surveys that might work with 900 if we can
>> beat the interference from CPS Energy.
>>
>> Get better lease terms and profit goes up.
>>
>> Charge an installation fee to cover some of your upfront costs as well.
>> $199 seems reasonable if no other service is available.
>> Add in a managed router service (or anything you can think of to drive
>> ARPU up).
>>
>> Now your upfront for 20 customers = $4000 for radios and $6000 for sector
>> with backup. (you only need ONE backup BTW)
>> Second sector is only $7K for 20 customers.
>> And the beat goes on.
>>
>> $350/month for lease payment vs $1400 for incoming cash flow. I'd make
>> that deal every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
>>
>> But that's just me. :)
>>
>> YMMV.
>>
>> JP
>>
>> *On Wed, 30 May 2018 23:50:32 -0400, RickG wrote*
>> > CAMBIUM:
>> > Outlay: AP (x2 for backup) $5000 + CPE/Antenna (x 11) $4400 + Labor
>> $600 = TOTAL: $1 (not including bandwidth & support)Inflow: 10
>> customers @ $50/month = $500/month
>> > ROI (Not counting labor or any issues): 20 months
>> >
>> > UBNT:
>> > Outlay: AP ($250 (x2 for backup) $500 + CPE/Antenna (x11) $2750 + Labor
>> $600 = TOTAL: $3600
>> > Inflow: 10 customers @ $50/month = $500/month
>> > ROI (Not counting labor or any issues): 7.2 months
>> >
>> > That's a big difference, especially when you consider my ROI on LOS
>> subs is much, much less! 3 cheers for LOS! Too bad everyone is not LOS! :)
>> >
>> > On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 10:08 PM, J Portman  wrote:
>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> >
>>> > You think so? Take a look at ANY of the LTE solutions and then come
>>> talk about cost. :)
>>> >
>>> > 2500 for an AP seems steep, but amortizes VERY quickly with 10
>>> clients.
>>> >
>>> > JP
>>> >
>>> > *On Tue, 29 May 2018 23:58:02 -0400, RickG wrote*
>>> >
>>> > > Cambium 450i 900 is very pricey!
>>> > >
>>> > > On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 12:56 PM, Josh Luthman <
>>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>>> > >


 > > Cambium came out with their 450i in 900 in the last couple years.
 > >
 > > Josh Luthman
 > > Office: 937-552-2340
 > > Direct: 937-552-2343
 > > 1100 Wayne St
 > > Suite 1337
 > > Troy, OH 45373
 > >
 > > On Tue, May 29, 2018, 12:54 PM Clay Stewart <
 cstew...@scsbroadband.com> wrote:
 > >
>
>
> > > What to expect with the best of experiences. Expect 4-10Mbps in
> foliage and at least 100' over treetops on a tower.  We have a bit of hill
> which makes the difference for eight over the terrain. I would be hard
> press to deploy in flat land with foliage. As with any frequency, it is
> Terrain, Terrain Terrain... and height.
> > >
> > > Get recommendations from someone who has similar terrain, as
> opinions will always matter between those WISPs in various conditions.
> > >
> > > If you have no pending competition in next 24-36 months and have
> customers that can only be serviced via 900Mhz, then try it out.  That is
> enough time to recover investment and make something.
> > >
> > > I agree though, nothing has been done with 900Mhz in a long time,
> not even a shielded radio like the TIs, or a better, lighter sector
> shielding which costs wind load and weight issue for commercial leases.
> > >
> > > We are converting from 900Mhz at a pace required for each market
> where possible. But I expect we will have them for awhile in many spots.
> Hell, we still have a few Alvarians collecting money!
> > >
> > > On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 10:09 AM, Clay Stewart <
> cstew...@scsbroadband.com> wrote:
> > >
>>
>>
>> > > You have to use Rocket Yagis with Shielded Sectors to make it
>> work in foliage areas.
>> > >
>> > > On Sat, May 26, 2018 at 3:16 PM, Ralf-Talking Head Productions <
>> r...@thpi.net> wrote:
>> > >
>>>
>>>
>>> > >
>>> > > I am interested in Ubiquitie's 900Mhz radios and need real life
>>> experience input.
>>> > >
>>> > > Do they cut through heavy pine trees?
>>> > > What is the real distance I can archive through pine trees?
>>> > > Does it have sufficient bandwidth throughput?
>>> > > I have 3 customers who would like 

Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

[RickG]

Ah, that's the difference between us - I run a debt free company.

On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 11:23 AM, J Portman  wrote:

> Well, if there is no other service available, $50/month is too low. :) SB
> able to charge more. Good price is $69.95.
>
> $1*.035 = $350 month for 60 months. (and that is a VERY expensive
> lease).
>
> 10 customers at $70 = $700/month. $350 profit off the jump. Acceptable,
> but not 'juicy'. :)
>
> 20 customers at $70  = $1400/month (per sector) = $1000 profit per month
> (per sector). Now we're talking.
>
> We have hundreds of no-go site surveys that might work with 900 if we can
> beat the interference from CPS Energy.
>
> Get better lease terms and profit goes up.
>
> Charge an installation fee to cover some of your upfront costs as well.
> $199 seems reasonable if no other service is available.
> Add in a managed router service (or anything you can think of to drive
> ARPU up).
>
> Now your upfront for 20 customers = $4000 for radios and $6000 for sector
> with backup. (you only need ONE backup BTW)
> Second sector is only $7K for 20 customers.
> And the beat goes on.
>
> $350/month for lease payment vs $1400 for incoming cash flow. I'd make
> that deal every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
>
> But that's just me. :)
>
> YMMV.
>
> JP
>
> *On Wed, 30 May 2018 23:50:32 -0400, RickG wrote*
> > CAMBIUM:
> > Outlay: AP (x2 for backup) $5000 + CPE/Antenna (x 11) $4400 + Labor $600
> = TOTAL: $1 (not including bandwidth & support)Inflow: 10 customers @
> $50/month = $500/month
> > ROI (Not counting labor or any issues): 20 months
> >
> > UBNT:
> > Outlay: AP ($250 (x2 for backup) $500 + CPE/Antenna (x11) $2750 + Labor
> $600 = TOTAL: $3600
> > Inflow: 10 customers @ $50/month = $500/month
> > ROI (Not counting labor or any issues): 7.2 months
> >
> > That's a big difference, especially when you consider my ROI on LOS subs
> is much, much less! 3 cheers for LOS! Too bad everyone is not LOS! :)
> >
> > On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 10:08 PM, J Portman  wrote:
> >
>>
>>
>> >
>> > You think so? Take a look at ANY of the LTE solutions and then come
>> talk about cost. :)
>> >
>> > 2500 for an AP seems steep, but amortizes VERY quickly with 10 clients.
>> >
>> > JP
>> >
>> > *On Tue, 29 May 2018 23:58:02 -0400, RickG wrote*
>> >
>> > > Cambium 450i 900 is very pricey!
>> > >
>> > > On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 12:56 PM, Josh Luthman <
>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>> > >
>>>
>>>
>>> > > Cambium came out with their 450i in 900 in the last couple years.
>>> > >
>>> > > Josh Luthman
>>> > > Office: 937-552-2340
>>> > > Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> > > 1100 Wayne St
>>> > > Suite 1337
>>> > > Troy, OH 45373
>>> > >
>>> > > On Tue, May 29, 2018, 12:54 PM Clay Stewart <
>>> cstew...@scsbroadband.com> wrote:
>>> > >


 > > What to expect with the best of experiences. Expect 4-10Mbps in
 foliage and at least 100' over treetops on a tower.  We have a bit of hill
 which makes the difference for eight over the terrain. I would be hard
 press to deploy in flat land with foliage. As with any frequency, it is
 Terrain, Terrain Terrain... and height.
 > >
 > > Get recommendations from someone who has similar terrain, as
 opinions will always matter between those WISPs in various conditions.
 > >
 > > If you have no pending competition in next 24-36 months and have
 customers that can only be serviced via 900Mhz, then try it out.  That is
 enough time to recover investment and make something.
 > >
 > > I agree though, nothing has been done with 900Mhz in a long time,
 not even a shielded radio like the TIs, or a better, lighter sector
 shielding which costs wind load and weight issue for commercial leases.
 > >
 > > We are converting from 900Mhz at a pace required for each market
 where possible. But I expect we will have them for awhile in many spots.
 Hell, we still have a few Alvarians collecting money!
 > >
 > > On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 10:09 AM, Clay Stewart <
 cstew...@scsbroadband.com> wrote:
 > >
>
>
> > > You have to use Rocket Yagis with Shielded Sectors to make it work
> in foliage areas.
> > >
> > > On Sat, May 26, 2018 at 3:16 PM, Ralf-Talking Head Productions <
> r...@thpi.net> wrote:
> > >
>>
>>
>> > >
>> > > I am interested in Ubiquitie's 900Mhz radios and need real life
>> experience input.
>> > >
>> > > Do they cut through heavy pine trees?
>> > > What is the real distance I can archive through pine trees?
>> > > Does it have sufficient bandwidth throughput?
>> > > I have 3 customers who would like to sign up. They are about one
>> mile away from the tower. The distance is through heavy pine trees about 
>> 80
>> to 100 feet tall. Any suggestions?
>> > >
>> > > Thank you in advance for your reply.
>> > >
>> > >
>>
>> *Ralf > > Gulf Wireless Inc. > > *
>> > > 

Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

[Josh Luthman]

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, May 31, 2018, 2:02 PM RickG  wrote:

> Insurance? Would you turn in a claim for $2500 AP? Sounds like a reason to
> get your rates raised or your account cancelled. Do you have better luck
> with that?
>
> On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 1:39 AM, J Portman  wrote:
>
>> This is why the lord made insurance. ;)
>>
>> JP
>> *On Wed, 30 May 2018 23:24:52 -0400, RickG wrote*
>> > Perhaps but my customers are not willing to pay ten times for the
>> service! And while I've done everything possible to mitigate lightning and
>> power surges one blown 450i will ruin a budget!
>> >
>> > On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 6:16 PM, Travis Allen <
>> tra...@totalhighspeed.net> wrote:
>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> > Cambium 900 450 is ten times better than ubiquiti!
>>> >
>>> > Sent from my iPhone
>>> >
>>> > On May 30, 2018, at 17:12, RickG  wrote:
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> >
>>> > The best price I can find is well over $2500. That's 10 times the cost
>>> of a UBNT Rocket 900.
>>> >
>>> > On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 2:48 PM, Rory Conaway 
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>> > [UTF-8?]It’s not too bad.  We have one up, might put up a second
>>>> one.
>>>> >
>>>> > Rory
>>>> >
>>>> > *From:* ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org  *On
>>>> Behalf Of *RickG
>>>> > *Sent:* Tuesday, May 29, 2018 8:58 PM
>>>> > *To:* Ubiquiti Users Group 
>>>> > *Subject:* Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Cambium 450i 900 is very pricey!
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 12:56 PM, Josh Luthman <
>>>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>> > Cambium came out with their 450i in 900 in the last couple years.
>>>> >
>>>> > Josh Luthman
>>>> > Office: 937-552-2340
>>>> > Direct: 937-552-2343
>>>> > 1100 Wayne St
>>>> > Suite 1337
>>>> > Troy, OH 45373
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > On Tue, May 29, 2018, 12:54 PM Clay Stewart <
>>>> cstew...@scsbroadband.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>> > What to expect with the best of experiences. Expect 4-10Mbps in
>>>> foliage and at least 100' over treetops on a tower.  We have a bit of hill
>>>> which makes the difference for eight over the terrain. I would be hard
>>>> press to deploy in flat land with foliage. As with any frequency, it is
>>>> Terrain, Terrain Terrain... and height.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Get recommendations from someone who has similar terrain, as opinions
>>>> will always matter between those WISPs in various conditions.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > If you have no pending competition in next 24-36 months and have
>>>> customers that can only be serviced via 900Mhz, then try it out.  That is
>>>> enough time to recover investment and make something.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > I agree though, nothing has been done with 900Mhz in a long time, not
>>>> even a shielded radio like the TIs, or a better, lighter sector shielding
>>>> which costs wind load and weight issue for commercial leases.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > We are converting from 900Mhz at a pace required for each market
>>>> where possible. But I expect we will have them for awhile in many spots.
>>>> Hell, we still have a few Alvarians collecting money!
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 10:09 AM, Clay Stewart <
>>>> cstew...@scsbroadband.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>> > You have to use Rocket Yagis with Shielded Sectors to make it work in
>>>> foliage areas.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >

Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

[RickG]

Insurance? Would you turn in a claim for $2500 AP? Sounds like a reason to
get your rates raised or your account cancelled. Do you have better luck
with that?

On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 1:39 AM, J Portman  wrote:

> This is why the lord made insurance. ;)
>
> JP
> *On Wed, 30 May 2018 23:24:52 -0400, RickG wrote*
> > Perhaps but my customers are not willing to pay ten times for the
> service! And while I've done everything possible to mitigate lightning and
> power surges one blown 450i will ruin a budget!
> >
> > On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 6:16 PM, Travis Allen  > wrote:
> >
>>
>>
>> > Cambium 900 450 is ten times better than ubiquiti!
>> >
>> > Sent from my iPhone
>> >
>> > On May 30, 2018, at 17:12, RickG  wrote:
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> >
>> > The best price I can find is well over $2500. That's 10 times the cost
>> of a UBNT Rocket 900.
>> >
>> > On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 2:48 PM, Rory Conaway 
>> wrote:
>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> >
>>> > [UTF-8?]It’s not too bad.  We have one up, might put up a second
>>> one.
>>> >
>>> > Rory
>>> >
>>> > *From:* ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org  *On
>>> Behalf Of *RickG
>>> > *Sent:* Tuesday, May 29, 2018 8:58 PM
>>> > *To:* Ubiquiti Users Group 
>>> > *Subject:* Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Cambium 450i 900 is very pricey!
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 12:56 PM, Josh Luthman <
>>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> >
>>> > Cambium came out with their 450i in 900 in the last couple years.
>>> >
>>> > Josh Luthman
>>> > Office: 937-552-2340
>>> > Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> > 1100 Wayne St
>>> > Suite 1337
>>> > Troy, OH 45373
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Tue, May 29, 2018, 12:54 PM Clay Stewart 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> >
>>> > What to expect with the best of experiences. Expect 4-10Mbps in
>>> foliage and at least 100' over treetops on a tower.  We have a bit of hill
>>> which makes the difference for eight over the terrain. I would be hard
>>> press to deploy in flat land with foliage. As with any frequency, it is
>>> Terrain, Terrain Terrain... and height.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Get recommendations from someone who has similar terrain, as opinions
>>> will always matter between those WISPs in various conditions.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > If you have no pending competition in next 24-36 months and have
>>> customers that can only be serviced via 900Mhz, then try it out.  That is
>>> enough time to recover investment and make something.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > I agree though, nothing has been done with 900Mhz in a long time, not
>>> even a shielded radio like the TIs, or a better, lighter sector shielding
>>> which costs wind load and weight issue for commercial leases.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > We are converting from 900Mhz at a pace required for each market where
>>> possible. But I expect we will have them for awhile in many spots. Hell, we
>>> still have a few Alvarians collecting money!
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 10:09 AM, Clay Stewart <
>>> cstew...@scsbroadband.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> >
>>> > You have to use Rocket Yagis with Shielded Sectors to make it work in
>>> foliage areas.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Sat, May 26, 2018 at 3:16 PM, Ralf-Talking Head Productions <
>>> r...@thpi.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> >
>>> > I am interested in Ubiquitie's 900Mhz radios and need real life
>>> experience input.
>>> > Do they cut through heavy pine trees?
>>> > What is the real distance I can archive through pine trees?
>>> > Does it have sufficient bandwidth throughput?
>>> > I have 3 customers who would like to sign up. They are about one mile
>>> away from the tower. The distance is through heavy pine trees about 80 to
>>> 100 feet tall. Any suggestions?
>>> > Thank you in advance for your reply.
>

Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

[J Portman]

Plus, your closure rate (leads vs installs) goes up.  Ours has hovered 
around 60% since day one. 4 out of 10 trips are wasted money. If I get 
just ONE extra install per 10 trips, I am reducing variable costs while 
increasing cash flow.

Another way to look at it, if we can handle customers that others cannot 
touch, will they ever leave? :)

JP
On Thu, 31 May 2018 13:12:46 -0400, Josh Luthman wrote
> >$350/month for lease payment vs $1400 for incoming cash flow
> 
> Where are you seeing 2 year ROI?  With 5 customers you're breaking 
> even, that's like 2 days of installs.  With 20 customers you're more 
> than profitable.
> 
> This is exactly how we got started building a profitable business (this
> idea actually came from Travis Johnson).  These days we basically 
> get free money from the credit union via prime rate loan, it's 
> something like $125 per $20k?
> 
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> 
> On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 1:08 PM, RickG  wrote:
> 
> > JP,
> >
> > Respectively, I'm not totally disagreeing with you but it's an 
interesting
> > discussion!
> >
> > Sure, typically less than a 2 year payback is considered fair by many 
but
> > my point is that I can get a faster ROI on UBNT and near immediate 
payback
> > on LOS customers. There are only so many hours a day so I seriously
> > consider where I spend my resources for the best ROI. I do totally 
agree
> > with you that you probably have a better chance of keeping customers 
should
> > any serious competition come into the area. I also agree that you may 
be
> > able to get UBNT no-go customers. On that note, I'd love to hear how 
that
> > point is going for you!
> >
> >
> > On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 1:38 AM, J Portman  wrote:
> >
> >> So, less than two years payback on 10 subs. Without borrowing a dime.
> >> Now, jump it up to real world numbers, 20 subs or more.
> >> Now, finance the equipment with the extra cash flow you now have.
> >>
> >> Many, many companies are happy with 10 year payback. 20 months is 
pretty
> >> good. Sure, you're used to 'disruptive' numbers (and so are we).
> >>
> >> But we dropped 100K on Telrad to service about 100 customers.
> >> Not the best deal I ever made, but $6900/month sure does service a 
100K
> >> note with LOTS left over. :)
> >>
> >> Plus, with the better equipment, you might actually stand a chance of
> >> keeping those customers.
> >>
> >> We dropped UBNT 900 years ago. Just too slow.
> >>
> >> Cambium is a whole 'nother ball game. I have dozens (if not over a
> >> hundred) no go site surveys that a 450 Cambium might be able to 
service.
> >> I will be looking into them.
> >>
> >> Just a thought.
> >>
> >> JP
> >>
> >> *On Wed, 30 May 2018 23:50:32 -0400, RickG wrote*
> >> > CAMBIUM:
> >> > Outlay: AP (x2 for backup) $5000 + CPE/Antenna (x 11) $4400 + Labor
> >> $600 = TOTAL: $1 (not including bandwidth & support)Inflow: 10
> >> customers @ $50/month = $500/month
> >> > ROI (Not counting labor or any issues): 20 months
> >> >
> >> > UBNT:
> >> > Outlay: AP ($250 (x2 for backup) $500 + CPE/Antenna (x11) $2750 + 
Labor
> >> $600 = TOTAL: $3600
> >> > Inflow: 10 customers @ $50/month = $500/month
> >> > ROI (Not counting labor or any issues): 7.2 months
> >> >
> >> > That's a big difference, especially when you consider my ROI on LOS
> >> subs is much, much less! 3 cheers for LOS! Too bad everyone is not 
LOS! :)
> >> >
> >> > On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 10:08 PM, J Portman  
wrote:
> >> >
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> >
> >>> > You think so? Take a look at ANY of the LTE solutions and then 
come
> >>> talk about cost. :)
> >>> >
> >>> > 2500 for an AP seems steep, but amortizes VERY quickly with 10
> >>> clients.
> >>> >
> >>> > JP
> >>> >
> >>> > *On Tue, 29 May 2018 23:58:02 -0400, RickG wrote*
> >>> >
> >>> > > Cambium 450i 900 is very pricey!
> >>> > >
> >>> > > On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 12:56 PM, Josh Luthman <
> >>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
> >>> > >
> 
> 
>  > > Cambium came out with their 450i in 900 in the last couple 
years.
>  > >
>  > > Josh Luthman
>  > > Office: 937-552-2340
>  > > Direct: 937-552-2343
>  > > 1100 Wayne St
>  > > Suite 1337
>  > > Troy, OH 45373
>  > >
>  > > On Tue, May 29, 2018, 12:54 PM Clay Stewart <
>  cstew...@scsbroadband.com> wrote:
>  > >
> >
> >
> > > > What to expect with the best of experiences. Expect 4-10Mbps 
in
> > foliage and at least 100' over treetops on a tower.  We have a bit 
of hill
> > which makes the difference for eight over the terrain. I would be 
hard
> > press to deploy in flat land with foliage. As with any frequency, 
it is
> > Terrain, Terrain Terrain... and height.
> > > >
> > > > Get recommendations from someone who has similar terrain, as
> > opinions will always matter between those WISPs in various 
conditions.
> > > >
> > > > If you have no pending competition 

Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

[J Portman]

Having more installs than we can handle is a _good_ problem. :)

YMMV,
JP
On Thu, 31 May 2018 13:12:46 -0400, Josh Luthman wrote
> >$350/month for lease payment vs $1400 for incoming cash flow
> 
> Where are you seeing 2 year ROI?  With 5 customers you're breaking 
> even, that's like 2 days of installs.  With 20 customers you're more 
> than profitable.
> 
> This is exactly how we got started building a profitable business (this
> idea actually came from Travis Johnson).  These days we basically 
> get free money from the credit union via prime rate loan, it's 
> something like $125 per $20k?
> 
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> 
> On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 1:08 PM, RickG  wrote:
> 
> > JP,
> >
> > Respectively, I'm not totally disagreeing with you but it's an 
interesting
> > discussion!
> >
> > Sure, typically less than a 2 year payback is considered fair by many 
but
> > my point is that I can get a faster ROI on UBNT and near immediate 
payback
> > on LOS customers. There are only so many hours a day so I seriously
> > consider where I spend my resources for the best ROI. I do totally 
agree
> > with you that you probably have a better chance of keeping customers 
should
> > any serious competition come into the area. I also agree that you may 
be
> > able to get UBNT no-go customers. On that note, I'd love to hear how 
that
> > point is going for you!
> >
> >
> > On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 1:38 AM, J Portman  wrote:
> >
> >> So, less than two years payback on 10 subs. Without borrowing a dime.
> >> Now, jump it up to real world numbers, 20 subs or more.
> >> Now, finance the equipment with the extra cash flow you now have.
> >>
> >> Many, many companies are happy with 10 year payback. 20 months is 
pretty
> >> good. Sure, you're used to 'disruptive' numbers (and so are we).
> >>
> >> But we dropped 100K on Telrad to service about 100 customers.
> >> Not the best deal I ever made, but $6900/month sure does service a 
100K
> >> note with LOTS left over. :)
> >>
> >> Plus, with the better equipment, you might actually stand a chance of
> >> keeping those customers.
> >>
> >> We dropped UBNT 900 years ago. Just too slow.
> >>
> >> Cambium is a whole 'nother ball game. I have dozens (if not over a
> >> hundred) no go site surveys that a 450 Cambium might be able to 
service.
> >> I will be looking into them.
> >>
> >> Just a thought.
> >>
> >> JP
> >>
> >> *On Wed, 30 May 2018 23:50:32 -0400, RickG wrote*
> >> > CAMBIUM:
> >> > Outlay: AP (x2 for backup) $5000 + CPE/Antenna (x 11) $4400 + Labor
> >> $600 = TOTAL: $1 (not including bandwidth & support)Inflow: 10
> >> customers @ $50/month = $500/month
> >> > ROI (Not counting labor or any issues): 20 months
> >> >
> >> > UBNT:
> >> > Outlay: AP ($250 (x2 for backup) $500 + CPE/Antenna (x11) $2750 + 
Labor
> >> $600 = TOTAL: $3600
> >> > Inflow: 10 customers @ $50/month = $500/month
> >> > ROI (Not counting labor or any issues): 7.2 months
> >> >
> >> > That's a big difference, especially when you consider my ROI on LOS
> >> subs is much, much less! 3 cheers for LOS! Too bad everyone is not 
LOS! :)
> >> >
> >> > On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 10:08 PM, J Portman  
wrote:
> >> >
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> >
> >>> > You think so? Take a look at ANY of the LTE solutions and then 
come
> >>> talk about cost. :)
> >>> >
> >>> > 2500 for an AP seems steep, but amortizes VERY quickly with 10
> >>> clients.
> >>> >
> >>> > JP
> >>> >
> >>> > *On Tue, 29 May 2018 23:58:02 -0400, RickG wrote*
> >>> >
> >>> > > Cambium 450i 900 is very pricey!
> >>> > >
> >>> > > On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 12:56 PM, Josh Luthman <
> >>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
> >>> > >
> 
> 
>  > > Cambium came out with their 450i in 900 in the last couple 
years.
>  > >
>  > > Josh Luthman
>  > > Office: 937-552-2340
>  > > Direct: 937-552-2343
>  > > 1100 Wayne St
>  > > Suite 1337
>  > > Troy, OH 45373
>  > >
>  > > On Tue, May 29, 2018, 12:54 PM Clay Stewart <
>  cstew...@scsbroadband.com> wrote:
>  > >
> >
> >
> > > > What to expect with the best of experiences. Expect 4-10Mbps 
in
> > foliage and at least 100' over treetops on a tower.  We have a bit 
of hill
> > which makes the difference for eight over the terrain. I would be 
hard
> > press to deploy in flat land with foliage. As with any frequency, 
it is
> > Terrain, Terrain Terrain... and height.
> > > >
> > > > Get recommendations from someone who has similar terrain, as
> > opinions will always matter between those WISPs in various 
conditions.
> > > >
> > > > If you have no pending competition in next 24-36 months and 
have
> > customers that can only be serviced via 900Mhz, then try it out.  
That is
> > enough time to recover investment and make something.
> > > >
> > > > I agree though, nothing has been done with 900Mhz in a long 
time,
> > 

Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

[Josh Luthman]

>$350/month for lease payment vs $1400 for incoming cash flow

Where are you seeing 2 year ROI?  With 5 customers you're breaking even,
that's like 2 days of installs.  With 20 customers you're more than
profitable.

This is exactly how we got started building a profitable business (this
idea actually came from Travis Johnson).  These days we basically get free
money from the credit union via prime rate loan, it's something like $125
per $20k?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 1:08 PM, RickG  wrote:

> JP,
>
> Respectively, I'm not totally disagreeing with you but it's an interesting
> discussion!
>
> Sure, typically less than a 2 year payback is considered fair by many but
> my point is that I can get a faster ROI on UBNT and near immediate payback
> on LOS customers. There are only so many hours a day so I seriously
> consider where I spend my resources for the best ROI. I do totally agree
> with you that you probably have a better chance of keeping customers should
> any serious competition come into the area. I also agree that you may be
> able to get UBNT no-go customers. On that note, I'd love to hear how that
> point is going for you!
>
>
> On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 1:38 AM, J Portman  wrote:
>
>> So, less than two years payback on 10 subs. Without borrowing a dime.
>> Now, jump it up to real world numbers, 20 subs or more.
>> Now, finance the equipment with the extra cash flow you now have.
>>
>> Many, many companies are happy with 10 year payback. 20 months is pretty
>> good. Sure, you're used to 'disruptive' numbers (and so are we).
>>
>> But we dropped 100K on Telrad to service about 100 customers.
>> Not the best deal I ever made, but $6900/month sure does service a 100K
>> note with LOTS left over. :)
>>
>> Plus, with the better equipment, you might actually stand a chance of
>> keeping those customers.
>>
>> We dropped UBNT 900 years ago. Just too slow.
>>
>> Cambium is a whole 'nother ball game. I have dozens (if not over a
>> hundred) no go site surveys that a 450 Cambium might be able to service.
>> I will be looking into them.
>>
>> Just a thought.
>>
>> JP
>>
>> *On Wed, 30 May 2018 23:50:32 -0400, RickG wrote*
>> > CAMBIUM:
>> > Outlay: AP (x2 for backup) $5000 + CPE/Antenna (x 11) $4400 + Labor
>> $600 = TOTAL: $1 (not including bandwidth & support)Inflow: 10
>> customers @ $50/month = $500/month
>> > ROI (Not counting labor or any issues): 20 months
>> >
>> > UBNT:
>> > Outlay: AP ($250 (x2 for backup) $500 + CPE/Antenna (x11) $2750 + Labor
>> $600 = TOTAL: $3600
>> > Inflow: 10 customers @ $50/month = $500/month
>> > ROI (Not counting labor or any issues): 7.2 months
>> >
>> > That's a big difference, especially when you consider my ROI on LOS
>> subs is much, much less! 3 cheers for LOS! Too bad everyone is not LOS! :)
>> >
>> > On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 10:08 PM, J Portman  wrote:
>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> >
>>> > You think so? Take a look at ANY of the LTE solutions and then come
>>> talk about cost. :)
>>> >
>>> > 2500 for an AP seems steep, but amortizes VERY quickly with 10
>>> clients.
>>> >
>>> > JP
>>> >
>>> > *On Tue, 29 May 2018 23:58:02 -0400, RickG wrote*
>>> >
>>> > > Cambium 450i 900 is very pricey!
>>> > >
>>> > > On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 12:56 PM, Josh Luthman <
>>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>>> > >


 > > Cambium came out with their 450i in 900 in the last couple years.
 > >
 > > Josh Luthman
 > > Office: 937-552-2340
 > > Direct: 937-552-2343
 > > 1100 Wayne St
 > > Suite 1337
 > > Troy, OH 45373
 > >
 > > On Tue, May 29, 2018, 12:54 PM Clay Stewart <
 cstew...@scsbroadband.com> wrote:
 > >
>
>
> > > What to expect with the best of experiences. Expect 4-10Mbps in
> foliage and at least 100' over treetops on a tower.  We have a bit of hill
> which makes the difference for eight over the terrain. I would be hard
> press to deploy in flat land with foliage. As with any frequency, it is
> Terrain, Terrain Terrain... and height.
> > >
> > > Get recommendations from someone who has similar terrain, as
> opinions will always matter between those WISPs in various conditions.
> > >
> > > If you have no pending competition in next 24-36 months and have
> customers that can only be serviced via 900Mhz, then try it out.  That is
> enough time to recover investment and make something.
> > >
> > > I agree though, nothing has been done with 900Mhz in a long time,
> not even a shielded radio like the TIs, or a better, lighter sector
> shielding which costs wind load and weight issue for commercial leases.
> > >
> > > We are converting from 900Mhz at a pace required for each market
> where possible. But I expect we will have them for awhile in many spots.
> Hell, we still have a few Alvarians collecting money!
> > >
> > > On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 

Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

[RickG]

JP,

Respectively, I'm not totally disagreeing with you but it's an interesting
discussion!

Sure, typically less than a 2 year payback is considered fair by many but
my point is that I can get a faster ROI on UBNT and near immediate payback
on LOS customers. There are only so many hours a day so I seriously
consider where I spend my resources for the best ROI. I do totally agree
with you that you probably have a better chance of keeping customers should
any serious competition come into the area. I also agree that you may be
able to get UBNT no-go customers. On that note, I'd love to hear how that
point is going for you!


On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 1:38 AM, J Portman  wrote:

> So, less than two years payback on 10 subs. Without borrowing a dime.
> Now, jump it up to real world numbers, 20 subs or more.
> Now, finance the equipment with the extra cash flow you now have.
>
> Many, many companies are happy with 10 year payback. 20 months is pretty
> good. Sure, you're used to 'disruptive' numbers (and so are we).
>
> But we dropped 100K on Telrad to service about 100 customers.
> Not the best deal I ever made, but $6900/month sure does service a 100K
> note with LOTS left over. :)
>
> Plus, with the better equipment, you might actually stand a chance of
> keeping those customers.
>
> We dropped UBNT 900 years ago. Just too slow.
>
> Cambium is a whole 'nother ball game. I have dozens (if not over a
> hundred) no go site surveys that a 450 Cambium might be able to service.
> I will be looking into them.
>
> Just a thought.
>
> JP
>
> *On Wed, 30 May 2018 23:50:32 -0400, RickG wrote*
> > CAMBIUM:
> > Outlay: AP (x2 for backup) $5000 + CPE/Antenna (x 11) $4400 + Labor $600
> = TOTAL: $1 (not including bandwidth & support)Inflow: 10 customers @
> $50/month = $500/month
> > ROI (Not counting labor or any issues): 20 months
> >
> > UBNT:
> > Outlay: AP ($250 (x2 for backup) $500 + CPE/Antenna (x11) $2750 + Labor
> $600 = TOTAL: $3600
> > Inflow: 10 customers @ $50/month = $500/month
> > ROI (Not counting labor or any issues): 7.2 months
> >
> > That's a big difference, especially when you consider my ROI on LOS subs
> is much, much less! 3 cheers for LOS! Too bad everyone is not LOS! :)
> >
> > On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 10:08 PM, J Portman  wrote:
> >
>>
>>
>> >
>> > You think so? Take a look at ANY of the LTE solutions and then come
>> talk about cost. :)
>> >
>> > 2500 for an AP seems steep, but amortizes VERY quickly with 10 clients.
>> >
>> > JP
>> >
>> > *On Tue, 29 May 2018 23:58:02 -0400, RickG wrote*
>> >
>> > > Cambium 450i 900 is very pricey!
>> > >
>> > > On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 12:56 PM, Josh Luthman <
>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>> > >
>>>
>>>
>>> > > Cambium came out with their 450i in 900 in the last couple years.
>>> > >
>>> > > Josh Luthman
>>> > > Office: 937-552-2340
>>> > > Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> > > 1100 Wayne St
>>> > > Suite 1337
>>> > > Troy, OH 45373
>>> > >
>>> > > On Tue, May 29, 2018, 12:54 PM Clay Stewart <
>>> cstew...@scsbroadband.com> wrote:
>>> > >


 > > What to expect with the best of experiences. Expect 4-10Mbps in
 foliage and at least 100' over treetops on a tower.  We have a bit of hill
 which makes the difference for eight over the terrain. I would be hard
 press to deploy in flat land with foliage. As with any frequency, it is
 Terrain, Terrain Terrain... and height.
 > >
 > > Get recommendations from someone who has similar terrain, as
 opinions will always matter between those WISPs in various conditions.
 > >
 > > If you have no pending competition in next 24-36 months and have
 customers that can only be serviced via 900Mhz, then try it out.  That is
 enough time to recover investment and make something.
 > >
 > > I agree though, nothing has been done with 900Mhz in a long time,
 not even a shielded radio like the TIs, or a better, lighter sector
 shielding which costs wind load and weight issue for commercial leases.
 > >
 > > We are converting from 900Mhz at a pace required for each market
 where possible. But I expect we will have them for awhile in many spots.
 Hell, we still have a few Alvarians collecting money!
 > >
 > > On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 10:09 AM, Clay Stewart <
 cstew...@scsbroadband.com> wrote:
 > >
>
>
> > > You have to use Rocket Yagis with Shielded Sectors to make it work
> in foliage areas.
> > >
> > > On Sat, May 26, 2018 at 3:16 PM, Ralf-Talking Head Productions <
> r...@thpi.net> wrote:
> > >
>>
>>
>> > >
>> > > I am interested in Ubiquitie's 900Mhz radios and need real life
>> experience input.
>> > >
>> > > Do they cut through heavy pine trees?
>> > > What is the real distance I can archive through pine trees?
>> > > Does it have sufficient bandwidth throughput?
>> > > I have 3 customers who would like to sign up. They are about one
>> mile away from the 

Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

[Travis Allen]

+100

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 31, 2018, at 10:25, Josh Luthman  wrote:
> 
> This dude WISPs
> 
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> 
>> On Thu, May 31, 2018, 11:23 AM J Portman  wrote:
>> Well, if there is no other service available, $50/month is too low. :) SB 
>> able to charge more. Good price is $69.95. 
>> 
>> $1*.035 = $350 month for 60 months. (and that is a VERY expensive 
>> lease). 
>> 
>> 10 customers at $70 = $700/month. $350 profit off the jump. Acceptable, but 
>> not 'juicy'. :)
>> 
>> 20 customers at $70  = $1400/month (per sector) = $1000 profit per month 
>> (per sector). Now we're talking. 
>> 
>> We have hundreds of no-go site surveys that might work with 900 if we can 
>> beat the interference from CPS Energy. 
>> 
>> Get better lease terms and profit goes up.
>> 
>> Charge an installation fee to cover some of your upfront costs as well. $199 
>> seems reasonable if no other service is available.
>> Add in a managed router service (or anything you can think of to drive ARPU 
>> up). 
>> 
>> Now your upfront for 20 customers = $4000 for radios and $6000 for sector 
>> with backup. (you only need ONE backup BTW)
>> Second sector is only $7K for 20 customers. 
>> And the beat goes on. 
>> 
>> $350/month for lease payment vs $1400 for incoming cash flow. I'd make that 
>> deal every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
>> 
>> But that's just me. :) 
>> 
>> YMMV.
>> 
>> JP 
>> 
>> On Wed, 30 May 2018 23:50:32 -0400, RickG wrote
>> > CAMBIUM: 
>> > Outlay: AP (x2 for backup) $5000 + CPE/Antenna (x 11) $4400 + Labor $600 = 
>> > TOTAL: $1 (not including bandwidth & support)Inflow: 10 customers @ 
>> > $50/month = $500/month 
>> > ROI (Not counting labor or any issues): 20 months 
>> > 
>> > UBNT: 
>> > Outlay: AP ($250 (x2 for backup) $500 + CPE/Antenna (x11) $2750 + Labor 
>> > $600 = TOTAL: $3600 
>> > Inflow: 10 customers @ $50/month = $500/month 
>> > ROI (Not counting labor or any issues): 7.2 months 
>> > 
>> > That's a big difference, especially when you consider my ROI on LOS subs 
>> > is much, much less! 3 cheers for LOS! Too bad everyone is not LOS! :) 
>> > 
>> > On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 10:08 PM, J Portman  wrote: 
>> >
>>> 
>>> 
>>> > 
>>> > You think so? Take a look at ANY of the LTE solutions and then come talk 
>>> > about cost. :) 
>>> > 
>>> > 2500 for an AP seems steep, but amortizes VERY quickly with 10 clients. 
>>> > 
>>> > JP 
>>> > 
>>> > On Tue, 29 May 2018 23:58:02 -0400, RickG wrote 
>>> > 
>>> > > Cambium 450i 900 is very pricey! 
>>> > > 
>>> > > On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 12:56 PM, Josh Luthman 
>>> > >  wrote: 
>>> > >
 
 
 > > Cambium came out with their 450i in 900 in the last couple years. 
 > > 
 > > Josh Luthman 
 > > Office: 937-552-2340 
 > > Direct: 937-552-2343 
 > > 1100 Wayne St 
 > > Suite 1337 
 > > Troy, OH 45373 
 > > 
 > > On Tue, May 29, 2018, 12:54 PM Clay Stewart 
 > >  wrote: 
 > >
> 
> 
> > > What to expect with the best of experiences. Expect 4-10Mbps in 
> > > foliage and at least 100' over treetops on a tower.  We have a bit of 
> > > hill which makes the difference for eight over the terrain. I would 
> > > be hard press to deploy in flat land with foliage. As with any 
> > > frequency, it is Terrain, Terrain Terrain... and height. 
> > > 
> > > Get recommendations from someone who has similar terrain, as opinions 
> > > will always matter between those WISPs in various conditions. 
> > > 
> > > If you have no pending competition in next 24-36 months and have 
> > > customers that can only be serviced via 900Mhz, then try it out.  
> > > That is enough time to recover investment and make something. 
> > > 
> > > I agree though, nothing has been done with 900Mhz in a long time, not 
> > > even a shielded radio like the TIs, or a better, lighter sector 
> > > shielding which costs wind load and weight issue for commercial 
> > > leases.  
> > > 
> > > We are converting from 900Mhz at a pace required for each market 
> > > where possible. But I expect we will have them for awhile in many 
> > > spots. Hell, we still have a few Alvarians collecting  money! 
> > > 
> > > On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 10:09 AM, Clay Stewart 
> > >  wrote: 
> > >
>> 
>> 
>> > > You have to use Rocket Yagis with Shielded Sectors to make it work 
>> > > in foliage areas.  
>> > > 
>> > > On Sat, May 26, 2018 at 3:16 PM, Ralf-Talking Head Productions 
>> > >  wrote:  
>> > >
>>> 
>>> 
>>> > > 
>>> > > I am interested in Ubiquitie's 900Mhz radios and need real life 
>>> > > experience input. 
>>> > > 
>>> > > Do they cut through heavy pine trees? 
>>> > > What is the real distance I can archive through pine trees? 
>>> > > Does it have sufficient bandwidth 

Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

[Josh Luthman]

This dude WISPs

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, May 31, 2018, 11:23 AM J Portman  wrote:

> Well, if there is no other service available, $50/month is too low. :) SB
> able to charge more. Good price is $69.95.
>
> $1*.035 = $350 month for 60 months. (and that is a VERY expensive
> lease).
>
> 10 customers at $70 = $700/month. $350 profit off the jump. Acceptable,
> but not 'juicy'. :)
>
> 20 customers at $70  = $1400/month (per sector) = $1000 profit per month
> (per sector). Now we're talking.
>
> We have hundreds of no-go site surveys that might work with 900 if we can
> beat the interference from CPS Energy.
>
> Get better lease terms and profit goes up.
>
> Charge an installation fee to cover some of your upfront costs as well.
> $199 seems reasonable if no other service is available.
> Add in a managed router service (or anything you can think of to drive
> ARPU up).
>
> Now your upfront for 20 customers = $4000 for radios and $6000 for sector
> with backup. (you only need ONE backup BTW)
> Second sector is only $7K for 20 customers.
> And the beat goes on.
>
> $350/month for lease payment vs $1400 for incoming cash flow. I'd make
> that deal every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
>
> But that's just me. :)
>
> YMMV.
>
> JP
>
> *On Wed, 30 May 2018 23:50:32 -0400, RickG wrote*
> > CAMBIUM:
> > Outlay: AP (x2 for backup) $5000 + CPE/Antenna (x 11) $4400 + Labor $600
> = TOTAL: $1 (not including bandwidth & support)Inflow: 10 customers @
> $50/month = $500/month
> > ROI (Not counting labor or any issues): 20 months
> >
> > UBNT:
> > Outlay: AP ($250 (x2 for backup) $500 + CPE/Antenna (x11) $2750 + Labor
> $600 = TOTAL: $3600
> > Inflow: 10 customers @ $50/month = $500/month
> > ROI (Not counting labor or any issues): 7.2 months
> >
> > That's a big difference, especially when you consider my ROI on LOS subs
> is much, much less! 3 cheers for LOS! Too bad everyone is not LOS! :)
> >
> > On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 10:08 PM, J Portman  wrote:
> >
>>
>>
>> >
>> > You think so? Take a look at ANY of the LTE solutions and then come
>> talk about cost. :)
>> >
>> > 2500 for an AP seems steep, but amortizes VERY quickly with 10 clients.
>> >
>> > JP
>> >
>> > *On Tue, 29 May 2018 23:58:02 -0400, RickG wrote*
>> >
>> > > Cambium 450i 900 is very pricey!
>> > >
>> > > On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 12:56 PM, Josh Luthman <
>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>> > >
>>>
>>>
>>> > > Cambium came out with their 450i in 900 in the last couple years.
>>> > >
>>> > > Josh Luthman
>>> > > Office: 937-552-2340
>>> > > Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> > > 1100 Wayne St
>>> > > Suite 1337
>>> > > Troy, OH 45373
>>> > >
>>> > > On Tue, May 29, 2018, 12:54 PM Clay Stewart <
>>> cstew...@scsbroadband.com> wrote:
>>> > >


 > > What to expect with the best of experiences. Expect 4-10Mbps in
 foliage and at least 100' over treetops on a tower.  We have a bit of hill
 which makes the difference for eight over the terrain. I would be hard
 press to deploy in flat land with foliage. As with any frequency, it is
 Terrain, Terrain Terrain... and height.
 > >
 > > Get recommendations from someone who has similar terrain, as
 opinions will always matter between those WISPs in various conditions.
 > >
 > > If you have no pending competition in next 24-36 months and have
 customers that can only be serviced via 900Mhz, then try it out.  That is
 enough time to recover investment and make something.
 > >
 > > I agree though, nothing has been done with 900Mhz in a long time,
 not even a shielded radio like the TIs, or a better, lighter sector
 shielding which costs wind load and weight issue for commercial leases.
 > >
 > > We are converting from 900Mhz at a pace required for each market
 where possible. But I expect we will have them for awhile in many spots.
 Hell, we still have a few Alvarians collecting money!
 > >
 > > On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 10:09 AM, Clay Stewart <
 cstew...@scsbroadband.com> wrote:
 > >
>
>
> > > You have to use Rocket Yagis with Shielded Sectors to make it work
> in foliage areas.
> > >
> > > On Sat, May 26, 2018 at 3:16 PM, Ralf-Talking Head Productions <
> r...@thpi.net> wrote:
> > >
>>
>>
>> > >
>> > > I am interested in Ubiquitie's 900Mhz radios and need real life
>> experience input.
>> > >
>> > > Do they cut through heavy pine trees?
>> > > What is the real distance I can archive through pine trees?
>> > > Does it have sufficient bandwidth throughput?
>> > > I have 3 customers who would like to sign up. They are about one
>> mile away from the tower. The distance is through heavy pine trees about 
>> 80
>> to 100 feet tall. Any suggestions?
>> > >
>> > > Thank you in advance for your reply.
>> > >
>> > >
>>
>> *Ralf > > Gulf 

Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

[J Portman]

Well, if there is no other service available, $50/month is too low. :) SB able 
to charge more. Good price is $69.95.

$1*.035 = $350 month for 60 months. (and that is a VERY expensive lease).

10 customers at $70 = $700/month. $350 profit off the jump. Acceptable, but not 
'juicy'. :)

20 customers at $70  = $1400/month (per sector) = $1000 profit per month (per 
sector). Now we're talking.

We have hundreds of no-go site surveys that might work with 900 if we can beat 
the interference from CPS Energy.

Get better lease terms and profit goes up.

Charge an installation fee to cover some of your upfront costs as well. $199 
seems reasonable if no other service is available.

Add in a managed router service (or anything you can think of to drive ARPU up).

Now your upfront for 20 customers = $4000 for radios and $6000 for sector with 
backup. (you only need ONE backup BTW)

Second sector is only $7K for 20 customers.

And the beat goes on.

$350/month for lease payment vs $1400 for incoming cash flow. I'd make that 
deal every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

But that's just me. :)

YMMV.

JP

On Wed, 30 May 2018 23:50:32 -0400, RickG wrote

> CAMBIUM:
> Outlay: AP (x2 for backup) $5000 + CPE/Antenna (x 11) $4400 + Labor $600 = 
> TOTAL: $1 (not including bandwidth & support)Inflow: 10 customers @ 
> $50/month = $500/month
> ROI (Not counting labor or any issues): 20 months
> 
> UBNT:
> Outlay: AP ($250 (x2 for backup) $500 + CPE/Antenna (x11) $2750 + Labor $600 
> = TOTAL: $3600
> Inflow: 10 customers @ $50/month = $500/month
> ROI (Not counting labor or any issues): 7.2 months
> 
> That's a big difference, especially when you consider my ROI on LOS subs is 
> much, much less! 3 cheers for LOS! Too bad everyone is not LOS! :)
> 
> On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 10:08 PM, J Portman  wrote:
> 
> 
> You think so? Take a look at ANY of the LTE solutions and then come talk 
> about cost. :)
> 
> 2500 for an AP seems steep, but amortizes VERY quickly with 10 clients.
> 
> JP
> 
> On Tue, 29 May 2018 23:58:02 -0400, RickG wrote
> 
> > Cambium 450i 900 is very pricey!
> > 
> > On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 12:56 PM, Josh Luthman 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > Cambium came out with their 450i in 900 in the last couple years.
> > 
> > Josh Luthman
> > Office: 937-552-2340
> > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > 1100 Wayne St
> > Suite 1337
> > Troy, OH 45373
> > 
> > On Tue, May 29, 2018, 12:54 PM Clay Stewart  
> > wrote:
> > 
> > What to expect with the best of experiences. Expect 4-10Mbps in foliage and 
> > at least 100' over treetops on a tower.  We have a bit of hill which makes 
> > the difference for eight over the terrain. I would be hard press to deploy 
> > in flat land with foliage. As with any frequency, it is Terrain, Terrain 
> > Terrain... and height.
> > 
> > Get recommendations from someone who has similar terrain, as opinions will 
> > always matter between those WISPs in various conditions.
> > 
> > If you have no pending competition in next 24-36 months and have customers 
> > that can only be serviced via 900Mhz, then try it out.  That is enough time 
> > to recover investment and make something.
> > 
> > I agree though, nothing has been done with 900Mhz in a long time, not even 
> > a shielded radio like the TIs, or a better, lighter sector shielding which 
> > costs wind load and weight issue for commercial leases. 
> > 
> > We are converting from 900Mhz at a pace required for each market where 
> > possible. But I expect we will have them for awhile in many spots. Hell, we 
> > still have a few Alvarians collecting money!
> > 
> > On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 10:09 AM, Clay Stewart  
> > wrote:
> > 
> > You have to use Rocket Yagis with Shielded Sectors to make it work in 
> > foliage areas. 
> > 
> > On Sat, May 26, 2018 at 3:16 PM, Ralf-Talking Head Productions 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > I am interested in Ubiquitie's 900Mhz radios and need real lifeexperience 
> > input.
> > 
> > Do they cut through heavy pine trees? 
> > What is the real distance I can archive through pine trees?
> > Does it have sufficient bandwidth throughput?
> > I have 3 customers who would like to sign up. They are about onemile away 
> > from the tower. The distance is through heavy pine treesabout 80 to 100 
> > feet tall. Any suggestions?
> > 
> > Thank you in advance for your reply.
> > 
> > Ralf
> > Gulf Wireless Inc.
> > 
> > ___
> > Ubnt_users mailing list
> > Ubnt_users@wispa.org
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/ubnt_users
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ___
> > Ubnt_users mailing list
> > Ubnt_users@wispa.org
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/ubnt_users
> > 
> > ___
> > Ubnt_users mailing list
> > Ubnt_users@wispa.org
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/ubnt_users
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > 
> > -RickG
> 
> Joe Portman 
> Alamo Broadband Inc. 
> www.alamobroadband.com
> 
> 

Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

[David Jones]

Rick,

I believe that most of us have been there where quality takes a back seat
to cost. However there is much more cost that comes with going cheap over
quality.

What about support calls for slow speed?
What about truck rolls for slow speed?
What about calls for netflix, hulu, youtube, twitch, ect. not working or
buffering? Everyone knows the Internet is for TV replacement.--- Sadly this
is becoming less and less sarcastic every day.
What about the lost customers who get fed up with your slow service and
complain to their neighbors?
What do you do if you get more than 15 people in a 10 mile radius
interested in the service?
What do you do when a customer wants to pay you $80 for more than 5mbps
service to stream more than one device?
What about the time explaining that they can't get faster service like
their friend that is on your service down the road?

All these problems and costs are already covered with the 450i

On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 11:39 PM, J Portman  wrote:

> This is why the lord made insurance. ;)
>
> JP
> *On Wed, 30 May 2018 23:24:52 -0400, RickG wrote*
> > Perhaps but my customers are not willing to pay ten times for the
> service! And while I've done everything possible to mitigate lightning and
> power surges one blown 450i will ruin a budget!
> >
> > On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 6:16 PM, Travis Allen  > wrote:
> >
>>
>>
>> > Cambium 900 450 is ten times better than ubiquiti!
>> >
>> > Sent from my iPhone
>> >
>> > On May 30, 2018, at 17:12, RickG  wrote:
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> >
>> > The best price I can find is well over $2500. That's 10 times the cost
>> of a UBNT Rocket 900.
>> >
>> > On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 2:48 PM, Rory Conaway 
>> wrote:
>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> >
>>> > [UTF-8?]It’s not too bad.  We have one up, might put up a second
>>> one.
>>> >
>>> > Rory
>>> >
>>> > *From:* ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org  *On
>>> Behalf Of *RickG
>>> > *Sent:* Tuesday, May 29, 2018 8:58 PM
>>> > *To:* Ubiquiti Users Group 
>>> > *Subject:* Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Cambium 450i 900 is very pricey!
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 12:56 PM, Josh Luthman <
>>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> >
>>> > Cambium came out with their 450i in 900 in the last couple years.
>>> >
>>> > Josh Luthman
>>> > Office: 937-552-2340
>>> > Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> > 1100 Wayne St
>>> > Suite 1337
>>> > Troy, OH 45373
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Tue, May 29, 2018, 12:54 PM Clay Stewart 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> >
>>> > What to expect with the best of experiences. Expect 4-10Mbps in
>>> foliage and at least 100' over treetops on a tower.  We have a bit of hill
>>> which makes the difference for eight over the terrain. I would be hard
>>> press to deploy in flat land with foliage. As with any frequency, it is
>>> Terrain, Terrain Terrain... and height.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Get recommendations from someone who has similar terrain, as opinions
>>> will always matter between those WISPs in various conditions.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > If you have no pending competition in next 24-36 months and have
>>> customers that can only be serviced via 900Mhz, then try it out.  That is
>>> enough time to recover investment and make something.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > I agree though, nothing has been done with 900Mhz in a long time, not
>>> even a shielded radio like the TIs, or a better, lighter sector shielding
>>> which costs wind load and weight issue for commercial leases.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > We are converting from 900Mhz at a pace required for each market where
>>> possible. But I expect we will have them for awhile in many spots. Hell, we
>>> still have a few Alvarians collecting money!
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 10:09 AM, Clay Stewart <
>>> cstew...@scsbroadband.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> >
>>> > You have to use Rocket Yagis with Shielded Sectors to make it wor

Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

[J Portman]

This is why the lord made insurance. ;)

JP

On Wed, 30 May 2018 23:24:52 -0400, RickG wrote

> Perhaps but my customers are not willing to pay ten times for the service! 
> And while I've done everything possible to mitigate lightning and power 
> surges one blown 450i will ruin a budget!
> 
> On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 6:16 PM, Travis Allen  
> wrote:
> 
> Cambium 900 450 is ten times better than ubiquiti!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On May 30, 2018, at 17:12, RickG  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> The best price I can find is well over $2500. That's 10 times the cost of a 
> UBNT Rocket 900. 
> 
> On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 2:48 PM, Rory Conaway  wrote:
> 
> 
> [UTF-8?]It’s not too bad.  We have one up, might put up a second one.
>  
> Rory
>  
> From: ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org On Behalf Of 
> RickG
> Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2018 8:58 PM
> To: Ubiquiti Users Group 
> Subject: Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz
>  
> 
> Cambium 450i 900 is very pricey!
> 
>  
> 
> On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 12:56 PM, Josh Luthman  
> wrote:
> 
> Cambium came out with their 450i in 900 in the last couple years.
> 
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> 
>  
> 
> On Tue, May 29, 2018, 12:54 PM Clay Stewart  wrote:
> 
> What to expect with the best of experiences. Expect 4-10Mbps in foliage and 
> at least 100' over treetops on a tower.  We have a bit of hill which makes 
> the difference for eight over the terrain. I would be hard press to deploy in 
> flat landwith foliage. As with any frequency, it is Terrain, Terrain 
> Terrain... and height.
> 
>  
> 
> Get recommendations from someone who has similar terrain, as opinions will 
> always matter between those WISPs in various conditions.
> 
>  
> 
> If you have no pending competition in next 24-36 months and have customers 
> that can only be serviced via 900Mhz, then try it out.  That is enough time 
> to recover investment and make something.
> 
>  
> 
> I agree though, nothing has been done with 900Mhz in a long time, not even a 
> shielded radio like the TIs, or a better, lighter sector shielding which 
> costs wind load and weight issue for commercial leases. 
> 
>  
> 
> We are converting from 900Mhz at a pace required for each market where 
> possible. But I expect we will have them for awhile in many spots. Hell, we 
> still have a few Alvarians collecting money!
> 
>  
> 
> On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 10:09 AM, Clay Stewart  
> wrote:
> 
> You have to use Rocket Yagis with Shielded Sectors to make it work in foliage 
> areas. 
> 
>  
> 
> On Sat, May 26, 2018 at 3:16 PM, Ralf-Talking Head Productions 
>  wrote:
> 
> I am interested in Ubiquitie's 900Mhz radios and need real life experience 
> input.
> Do they cut through heavy pine trees? 
> What is the real distance I can archive through pine trees?
> Does it have sufficient bandwidth throughput?
> I have 3 customers who would like to sign up. They are about one mile away 
> from the tower. The distance is through heavy pine trees about 80 to 100 feet 
> tall. Any suggestions?
> Thank you in advance for your reply.
> 
> Ralf
> Gulf Wireless Inc.
> 
> ___
> Ubnt_users mailing list
> Ubnt_users@wispa.org
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/ubnt_users
>  
>  
> ___
> Ubnt_users mailing list
> Ubnt_users@wispa.org
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/ubnt_users
> 
> ___
> Ubnt_users mailing list
> Ubnt_users@wispa.org
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/ubnt_users
> 
> 
> 
>  
> -- 
> 
> -RickG
> ___
> Ubnt_users mailing list
> Ubnt_users@wispa.org
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/ubnt_users
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> -RickG
> ___
> Ubnt_users mailing list
> Ubnt_users@wispa.org
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/ubnt_users
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> -RickG

Joe Portman 
Alamo Broadband Inc. 
www.alamobroadband.com
 
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Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

[J Portman]

So, less than two years payback on 10 subs. Without borrowing a dime. 

Now, jump it up to real world numbers, 20 subs or more.

Now, finance the equipment with the extra cash flow you now have.

Many, many companies are happy with 10 year payback. 20 months is pretty good. 
Sure, you're used to 'disruptive' numbers (and so are we).

But we dropped 100K on Telrad to service about 100 customers.

Not the best deal I ever made, but $6900/month sure does service a 100K note 
with LOTS left over. :)

Plus, with the better equipment, you might actually stand a chance of keeping 
those customers.

We dropped UBNT 900 years ago. Just too slow.

Cambium is a whole 'nother ball game. I have dozens (if not over a hundred) no 
go site surveys that a 450 Cambium might be able to service.

I will be looking into them.

Just a thought.

JP

On Wed, 30 May 2018 23:50:32 -0400, RickG wrote

> CAMBIUM:
> Outlay: AP (x2 for backup) $5000 + CPE/Antenna (x 11) $4400 + Labor $600 = 
> TOTAL: $1 (not including bandwidth & support)Inflow: 10 customers @ 
> $50/month = $500/month
> ROI (Not counting labor or any issues): 20 months
> 
> UBNT:
> Outlay: AP ($250 (x2 for backup) $500 + CPE/Antenna (x11) $2750 + Labor $600 
> = TOTAL: $3600
> Inflow: 10 customers @ $50/month = $500/month
> ROI (Not counting labor or any issues): 7.2 months
> 
> That's a big difference, especially when you consider my ROI on LOS subs is 
> much, much less! 3 cheers for LOS! Too bad everyone is not LOS! :)
> 
> On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 10:08 PM, J Portman  wrote:
> 
> 
> You think so? Take a look at ANY of the LTE solutions and then come talk 
> about cost. :)
> 
> 2500 for an AP seems steep, but amortizes VERY quickly with 10 clients.
> 
> JP
> 
> On Tue, 29 May 2018 23:58:02 -0400, RickG wrote
> 
> > Cambium 450i 900 is very pricey!
> > 
> > On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 12:56 PM, Josh Luthman 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > Cambium came out with their 450i in 900 in the last couple years.
> > 
> > Josh Luthman
> > Office: 937-552-2340
> > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > 1100 Wayne St
> > Suite 1337
> > Troy, OH 45373
> > 
> > On Tue, May 29, 2018, 12:54 PM Clay Stewart  
> > wrote:
> > 
> > What to expect with the best of experiences. Expect 4-10Mbps in foliage and 
> > at least 100' over treetops on a tower.  We have a bit of hill which makes 
> > the difference for eight over the terrain. I would be hard press to deploy 
> > in flat land with foliage. As with any frequency, it is Terrain, Terrain 
> > Terrain... and height.
> > 
> > Get recommendations from someone who has similar terrain, as opinions will 
> > always matter between those WISPs in various conditions.
> > 
> > If you have no pending competition in next 24-36 months and have customers 
> > that can only be serviced via 900Mhz, then try it out.  That is enough time 
> > to recover investment and make something.
> > 
> > I agree though, nothing has been done with 900Mhz in a long time, not even 
> > a shielded radio like the TIs, or a better, lighter sector shielding which 
> > costs wind load and weight issue for commercial leases. 
> > 
> > We are converting from 900Mhz at a pace required for each market where 
> > possible. But I expect we will have them for awhile in many spots. Hell, we 
> > still have a few Alvarians collecting money!
> > 
> > On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 10:09 AM, Clay Stewart  
> > wrote:
> > 
> > You have to use Rocket Yagis with Shielded Sectors to make it work in 
> > foliage areas. 
> > 
> > On Sat, May 26, 2018 at 3:16 PM, Ralf-Talking Head Productions 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > I am interested in Ubiquitie's 900Mhz radios and need real lifeexperience 
> > input.
> > 
> > Do they cut through heavy pine trees? 
> > What is the real distance I can archive through pine trees?
> > Does it have sufficient bandwidth throughput?
> > I have 3 customers who would like to sign up. They are about onemile away 
> > from the tower. The distance is through heavy pine treesabout 80 to 100 
> > feet tall. Any suggestions?
> > 
> > Thank you in advance for your reply.
> > 
> > Ralf
> > Gulf Wireless Inc.
> > 
> > ___
> > Ubnt_users mailing list
> > Ubnt_users@wispa.org
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/ubnt_users
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ___
> > Ubnt_users mailing list
> > Ubnt_users@wispa.org
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/ubnt_users
> > 
> > ___
> > Ubnt_users mailing list
> > Ubnt_users@wispa.org
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/ubnt_users
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > 
> > -RickG
> 
> Joe Portman 
> Alamo Broadband Inc. 
> www.alamobroadband.com
> 
> ___
> Ubnt_users mailing list
> Ubnt_users@wispa.org
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/ubnt_users
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> -RickG

Joe Portman 
Alamo Broadband Inc. 
www.alamobroadband.com
 

Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

[RickG]

CAMBIUM:
Outlay: AP (x2 for backup) $5000 + CPE/Antenna (x 11) $4400 + Labor $600 =
TOTAL: $1 (not including bandwidth & support)
Inflow: 10 customers @ $50/month = $500/month
ROI (Not counting labor or any issues): 20 months

UBNT:
Outlay: AP ($250 (x2 for backup) $500 + CPE/Antenna (x11) $2750 + Labor
$600 = TOTAL: $3600
Inflow: 10 customers @ $50/month = $500/month
ROI (Not counting labor or any issues): 7.2 months

That's a big difference, especially when you consider my ROI on LOS subs is
much, much less! 3 cheers for LOS! Too bad everyone is not LOS! :)



On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 10:08 PM, J Portman  wrote:

> You think so? Take a look at ANY of the LTE solutions and then come talk
> about cost. :)
>
> 2500 for an AP seems steep, but amortizes VERY quickly with 10 clients.
>
> JP
> *On Tue, 29 May 2018 23:58:02 -0400, RickG wrote*
> > Cambium 450i 900 is very pricey!
> >
> > On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 12:56 PM, Josh Luthman <
> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
> >
>>
>>
>> > Cambium came out with their 450i in 900 in the last couple years.
>> >
>> > Josh Luthman
>> > Office: 937-552-2340
>> > Direct: 937-552-2343
>> > 1100 Wayne St
>> > Suite 1337
>> > Troy, OH 45373
>> >
>> > On Tue, May 29, 2018, 12:54 PM Clay Stewart 
>> wrote:
>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> > What to expect with the best of experiences. Expect 4-10Mbps in
>>> foliage and at least 100' over treetops on a tower.  We have a bit of hill
>>> which makes the difference for eight over the terrain. I would be hard
>>> press to deploy in flat land with foliage. As with any frequency, it is
>>> Terrain, Terrain Terrain... and height.
>>> >
>>> > Get recommendations from someone who has similar terrain, as opinions
>>> will always matter between those WISPs in various conditions.
>>> >
>>> > If you have no pending competition in next 24-36 months and have
>>> customers that can only be serviced via 900Mhz, then try it out.  That is
>>> enough time to recover investment and make something.
>>> >
>>> > I agree though, nothing has been done with 900Mhz in a long time, not
>>> even a shielded radio like the TIs, or a better, lighter sector shielding
>>> which costs wind load and weight issue for commercial leases.
>>> >
>>> > We are converting from 900Mhz at a pace required for each market where
>>> possible. But I expect we will have them for awhile in many spots. Hell, we
>>> still have a few Alvarians collecting money!
>>> >
>>> > On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 10:09 AM, Clay Stewart <
>>> cstew...@scsbroadband.com> wrote:
>>> >


 > You have to use Rocket Yagis with Shielded Sectors to make it work in
 foliage areas.
 >
 > On Sat, May 26, 2018 at 3:16 PM, Ralf-Talking Head Productions <
 r...@thpi.net> wrote:
 >
>
>
> >
> > I am interested in Ubiquitie's 900Mhz radios and need real life
> experience input.
> >
> > Do they cut through heavy pine trees?
> > What is the real distance I can archive through pine trees?
> > Does it have sufficient bandwidth throughput?
> > I have 3 customers who would like to sign up. They are about one
> mile away from the tower. The distance is through heavy pine trees about 
> 80
> to 100 feet tall. Any suggestions?
> >
> > Thank you in advance for your reply.
> >
> >
>
> *Ralf > Gulf Wireless Inc. > *
> > ___
> > Ubnt_users mailing list
> > Ubnt_users@wispa.org
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/ubnt_users
> >
> >


 >
>>>
>>>
>>> > ___
>>> > Ubnt_users mailing list
>>> > Ubnt_users@wispa.org
>>> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/ubnt_users
>>> >
>>
>>
>> > ___
>> > Ubnt_users mailing list
>> > Ubnt_users@wispa.org
>> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/ubnt_users
>> >
>> >
>
>
> >
>
> >
> > --
> >
> > -RickG
>
>
> Joe Portman
> Alamo Broadband Inc.
> www.alamobroadband.com
>
> ___
> Ubnt_users mailing list
> Ubnt_users@wispa.org
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/ubnt_users
>
>


-- 
-RickG
___
Ubnt_users mailing list
Ubnt_users@wispa.org
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Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

[RickG]

I truly appreciate everyone's input and I'll consider it again. Thanks!

On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 7:33 PM, David Jones  wrote:

> Well... really depends on what you want. You want cheap do ubnt 900. you
> want quality and speed go for 450i.
>
> 450i has the ability to sync. you won't self interfere. This is huge if
> you plan on having more than one AP in a 15 mile radius.
>
> Right now I have a 450i that replaced a ubnt 900. the ubnt unit was puking
> after having only 20 clients on it. first i tried adding another ubnt 900
> and setting both to 10mhz... HA bad idea. Decided to go for the 450i and am
> surprised at how much better it is.
>
> Top speed on the ubnt was just as Clay said 4-10mbps... sometimes peaks at
> 14mbps.
>
> the 450i clients are similar in cost as the rocket 900's with Yaggis. But
> man do they perform better. speed test on a client with -77 RSSI is
> 26mbps/6mbps
> -70 RSSI is 49mbps/14mbps
> -64 RSSI is 78mbps/22mbps
>
> This is set with a 80/20 download to upload split. you can change it by a
> single percent from 15-85
> It really is quite amazing and worth the money.
>
> On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 4:16 PM, Travis Allen 
> wrote:
>
>> Cambium 900 450 is ten times better than ubiquiti!
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On May 30, 2018, at 17:12, RickG  wrote:
>>
>> The best price I can find is well over $2500. That's 10 times the cost of
>> a UBNT Rocket 900.
>>
>> On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 2:48 PM, Rory Conaway 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> It’s not too bad.  We have one up, might put up a second one.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Rory
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org  *On
>>> Behalf Of *RickG
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 29, 2018 8:58 PM
>>> *To:* Ubiquiti Users Group 
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Cambium 450i 900 is very pricey!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 12:56 PM, Josh Luthman <
>>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Cambium came out with their 450i in 900 in the last couple years.
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, May 29, 2018, 12:54 PM Clay Stewart 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> What to expect with the best of experiences. Expect 4-10Mbps in foliage
>>> and at least 100' over treetops on a tower.  We have a bit of hill which
>>> makes the difference for eight over the terrain. I would be hard press to
>>> deploy in flat land with foliage. As with any frequency, it is Terrain,
>>> Terrain Terrain... and height.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Get recommendations from someone who has similar terrain, as opinions
>>> will always matter between those WISPs in various conditions.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If you have no pending competition in next 24-36 months and have
>>> customers that can only be serviced via 900Mhz, then try it out.  That is
>>> enough time to recover investment and make something.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I agree though, nothing has been done with 900Mhz in a long time, not
>>> even a shielded radio like the TIs, or a better, lighter sector shielding
>>> which costs wind load and weight issue for commercial leases.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We are converting from 900Mhz at a pace required for each market where
>>> possible. But I expect we will have them for awhile in many spots. Hell, we
>>> still have a few Alvarians collecting money!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 10:09 AM, Clay Stewart <
>>> cstew...@scsbroadband.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> You have to use Rocket Yagis with Shielded Sectors to make it work in
>>> foliage areas.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, May 26, 2018 at 3:16 PM, Ralf-Talking Head Productions <
>>> r...@thpi.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> I am interested in Ubiquitie's 900Mhz radios and need real life
>>> experience input.
>>>
>>> Do they cut through heavy pine trees?
>>> What is the real distance I can archive through pine trees?
>>> Does it have sufficient bandwidth throughput?
>>>
>>> I have 3 customers who would like to sign up. They are about one mile
>>> away from the tower. The distance is through heavy p

Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

[RickG]

Perhaps but my customers are not willing to pay ten times for the service!
And while I've done everything possible to mitigate lightning and power
surges one blown 450i will ruin a budget!

On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 6:16 PM, Travis Allen 
wrote:

> Cambium 900 450 is ten times better than ubiquiti!
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On May 30, 2018, at 17:12, RickG  wrote:
>
> The best price I can find is well over $2500. That's 10 times the cost of
> a UBNT Rocket 900.
>
> On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 2:48 PM, Rory Conaway 
> wrote:
>
>> It’s not too bad.  We have one up, might put up a second one.
>>
>>
>>
>> Rory
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org  *On
>> Behalf Of *RickG
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 29, 2018 8:58 PM
>> *To:* Ubiquiti Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz
>>
>>
>>
>> Cambium 450i 900 is very pricey!
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 12:56 PM, Josh Luthman <
>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>>
>> Cambium came out with their 450i in 900 in the last couple years.
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, May 29, 2018, 12:54 PM Clay Stewart 
>> wrote:
>>
>> What to expect with the best of experiences. Expect 4-10Mbps in foliage
>> and at least 100' over treetops on a tower.  We have a bit of hill which
>> makes the difference for eight over the terrain. I would be hard press to
>> deploy in flat land with foliage. As with any frequency, it is Terrain,
>> Terrain Terrain... and height.
>>
>>
>>
>> Get recommendations from someone who has similar terrain, as opinions
>> will always matter between those WISPs in various conditions.
>>
>>
>>
>> If you have no pending competition in next 24-36 months and have
>> customers that can only be serviced via 900Mhz, then try it out.  That is
>> enough time to recover investment and make something.
>>
>>
>>
>> I agree though, nothing has been done with 900Mhz in a long time, not
>> even a shielded radio like the TIs, or a better, lighter sector shielding
>> which costs wind load and weight issue for commercial leases.
>>
>>
>>
>> We are converting from 900Mhz at a pace required for each market where
>> possible. But I expect we will have them for awhile in many spots. Hell, we
>> still have a few Alvarians collecting money!
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 10:09 AM, Clay Stewart 
>> wrote:
>>
>> You have to use Rocket Yagis with Shielded Sectors to make it work in
>> foliage areas.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, May 26, 2018 at 3:16 PM, Ralf-Talking Head Productions <
>> r...@thpi.net> wrote:
>>
>> I am interested in Ubiquitie's 900Mhz radios and need real life
>> experience input.
>>
>> Do they cut through heavy pine trees?
>> What is the real distance I can archive through pine trees?
>> Does it have sufficient bandwidth throughput?
>>
>> I have 3 customers who would like to sign up. They are about one mile
>> away from the tower. The distance is through heavy pine trees about 80 to
>> 100 feet tall. Any suggestions?
>>
>> Thank you in advance for your reply.
>>
>>
>> *Ralf Gulf Wireless Inc.*
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Ubnt_users mailing list
>> Ubnt_users@wispa.org
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/ubnt_users
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Ubnt_users mailing list
>> Ubnt_users@wispa.org
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/ubnt_users
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Ubnt_users mailing list
>> Ubnt_users@wispa.org
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/ubnt_users
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> -RickG
>>
>> ___
>> Ubnt_users mailing list
>> Ubnt_users@wispa.org
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/ubnt_users
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> -RickG
>
>
> ___
> Ubnt_users mailing list
> Ubnt_users@wispa.org
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/ubnt_users
>
>


-- 
-RickG
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Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

[J Portman]

You think so? Take a look at ANY of the LTE solutions and then come talk about 
cost. :)

2500 for an AP seems steep, but amortizes VERY quickly with 10 clients.

JP

On Tue, 29 May 2018 23:58:02 -0400, RickG wrote

> Cambium 450i 900 is very pricey!
> 
> On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 12:56 PM, Josh Luthman  
> wrote:
> 
> Cambium came out with their 450i in 900 in the last couple years.
> 
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> 
> On Tue, May 29, 2018, 12:54 PM Clay Stewart  wrote:
> 
> What to expect with the best of experiences. Expect 4-10Mbps in foliage and 
> at least 100' over treetops on a tower.  We have a bit of hill which makes 
> the difference for eight over the terrain. I would be hard press to deploy in 
> flat land with foliage. As with any frequency, it is Terrain, Terrain 
> Terrain... and height.
> 
> Get recommendations from someone who has similar terrain, as opinions will 
> always matter between those WISPs in various conditions.
> 
> If you have no pending competition in next 24-36 months and have customers 
> that can only be serviced via 900Mhz, then try it out.  That is enough time 
> to recover investment and make something.
> 
> I agree though, nothing has been done with 900Mhz in a long time, not even a 
> shielded radio like the TIs, or a better, lighter sector shielding which 
> costs wind load and weight issue for commercial leases. 
> 
> We are converting from 900Mhz at a pace required for each market where 
> possible. But I expect we will have them for awhile in many spots. Hell, we 
> still have a few Alvarians collecting money!
> 
> On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 10:09 AM, Clay Stewart  
> wrote:
> 
> You have to use Rocket Yagis with Shielded Sectors to make it work in foliage 
> areas. 
> 
> On Sat, May 26, 2018 at 3:16 PM, Ralf-Talking Head Productions 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> I am interested in Ubiquitie's 900Mhz radios and need real lifeexperience 
> input.
> 
> Do they cut through heavy pine trees? 
> What is the real distance I can archive through pine trees?
> Does it have sufficient bandwidth throughput?
> I have 3 customers who would like to sign up. They are about onemile away 
> from the tower. The distance is through heavy pine treesabout 80 to 100 feet 
> tall. Any suggestions?
> 
> Thank you in advance for your reply.
> 
> Ralf
> Gulf Wireless Inc.
> 
> ___
> Ubnt_users mailing list
> Ubnt_users@wispa.org
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/ubnt_users
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> Ubnt_users mailing list
> Ubnt_users@wispa.org
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/ubnt_users
> 
> ___
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> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/ubnt_users
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> -RickG

Joe Portman 
Alamo Broadband Inc. 
www.alamobroadband.com
 
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Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

[David Jones]

Well... really depends on what you want. You want cheap do ubnt 900. you
want quality and speed go for 450i.

450i has the ability to sync. you won't self interfere. This is huge if you
plan on having more than one AP in a 15 mile radius.

Right now I have a 450i that replaced a ubnt 900. the ubnt unit was puking
after having only 20 clients on it. first i tried adding another ubnt 900
and setting both to 10mhz... HA bad idea. Decided to go for the 450i and am
surprised at how much better it is.

Top speed on the ubnt was just as Clay said 4-10mbps... sometimes peaks at
14mbps.

the 450i clients are similar in cost as the rocket 900's with Yaggis. But
man do they perform better. speed test on a client with -77 RSSI is
26mbps/6mbps
-70 RSSI is 49mbps/14mbps
-64 RSSI is 78mbps/22mbps

This is set with a 80/20 download to upload split. you can change it by a
single percent from 15-85
It really is quite amazing and worth the money.

On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 4:16 PM, Travis Allen 
wrote:

> Cambium 900 450 is ten times better than ubiquiti!
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On May 30, 2018, at 17:12, RickG  wrote:
>
> The best price I can find is well over $2500. That's 10 times the cost of
> a UBNT Rocket 900.
>
> On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 2:48 PM, Rory Conaway 
> wrote:
>
>> It’s not too bad.  We have one up, might put up a second one.
>>
>>
>>
>> Rory
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org  *On
>> Behalf Of *RickG
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 29, 2018 8:58 PM
>> *To:* Ubiquiti Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz
>>
>>
>>
>> Cambium 450i 900 is very pricey!
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 12:56 PM, Josh Luthman <
>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>>
>> Cambium came out with their 450i in 900 in the last couple years.
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, May 29, 2018, 12:54 PM Clay Stewart 
>> wrote:
>>
>> What to expect with the best of experiences. Expect 4-10Mbps in foliage
>> and at least 100' over treetops on a tower.  We have a bit of hill which
>> makes the difference for eight over the terrain. I would be hard press to
>> deploy in flat land with foliage. As with any frequency, it is Terrain,
>> Terrain Terrain... and height.
>>
>>
>>
>> Get recommendations from someone who has similar terrain, as opinions
>> will always matter between those WISPs in various conditions.
>>
>>
>>
>> If you have no pending competition in next 24-36 months and have
>> customers that can only be serviced via 900Mhz, then try it out.  That is
>> enough time to recover investment and make something.
>>
>>
>>
>> I agree though, nothing has been done with 900Mhz in a long time, not
>> even a shielded radio like the TIs, or a better, lighter sector shielding
>> which costs wind load and weight issue for commercial leases.
>>
>>
>>
>> We are converting from 900Mhz at a pace required for each market where
>> possible. But I expect we will have them for awhile in many spots. Hell, we
>> still have a few Alvarians collecting money!
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 10:09 AM, Clay Stewart 
>> wrote:
>>
>> You have to use Rocket Yagis with Shielded Sectors to make it work in
>> foliage areas.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, May 26, 2018 at 3:16 PM, Ralf-Talking Head Productions <
>> r...@thpi.net> wrote:
>>
>> I am interested in Ubiquitie's 900Mhz radios and need real life
>> experience input.
>>
>> Do they cut through heavy pine trees?
>> What is the real distance I can archive through pine trees?
>> Does it have sufficient bandwidth throughput?
>>
>> I have 3 customers who would like to sign up. They are about one mile
>> away from the tower. The distance is through heavy pine trees about 80 to
>> 100 feet tall. Any suggestions?
>>
>> Thank you in advance for your reply.
>>
>>
>> *Ralf Gulf Wireless Inc.*
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Ubnt_users mailing list
>> Ubnt_users@wispa.org
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/ubnt_users
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Ubnt_users mailing list
>> Ubnt_users@wispa.org
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/ubnt_users
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Ubnt_users mailing list
>> Ubnt_users@wispa.org
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/ubnt_users
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> -RickG
>>
>> ___
>> Ubnt_users mailing list
>> Ubnt_users@wispa.org
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/ubnt_users
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> -RickG
>
>
> ___
> Ubnt_users mailing list
> Ubnt_users@wispa.org
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/ubnt_users
>
>


-- 
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NGL Connection
307-288-5491 ext 702
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Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

[Travis Allen]

Cambium 900 450 is ten times better than ubiquiti!

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 30, 2018, at 17:12, RickG  wrote:
> 
> The best price I can find is well over $2500. That's 10 times the cost of a 
> UBNT Rocket 900. 
> 
>> On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 2:48 PM, Rory Conaway  wrote:
>> It’s not too bad.  We have one up, might put up a second one.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Rory
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org  On Behalf 
>> Of RickG
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2018 8:58 PM
>> To: Ubiquiti Users Group 
>> Subject: Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Cambium 450i 900 is very pricey!
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 12:56 PM, Josh Luthman  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Cambium came out with their 450i in 900 in the last couple years.
>> 
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> On Tue, May 29, 2018, 12:54 PM Clay Stewart  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> What to expect with the best of experiences. Expect 4-10Mbps in foliage and 
>> at least 100' over treetops on a tower.  We have a bit of hill which makes 
>> the difference for eight over the terrain. I would be hard press to deploy 
>> in flat land  with foliage. As with any frequency, it is Terrain, Terrain 
>> Terrain... and height.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Get recommendations from someone who has similar terrain, as opinions will 
>> always matter between those WISPs in various conditions.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> If you have no pending competition in next 24-36 months and have customers 
>> that can only be serviced via 900Mhz, then try it out.  That is enough time 
>> to recover investment and make something.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> I agree though, nothing has been done with 900Mhz in a long time, not even a 
>> shielded radio like the TIs, or a better, lighter sector shielding which 
>> costs wind load and weight issue for commercial leases. 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> We are converting from 900Mhz at a pace required for each market where 
>> possible. But I expect we will have them for awhile in many spots. Hell, we 
>> still have a few Alvarians collecting money!
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 10:09 AM, Clay Stewart  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> You have to use Rocket Yagis with Shielded Sectors to make it work in 
>> foliage areas. 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> On Sat, May 26, 2018 at 3:16 PM, Ralf-Talking Head Productions 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I am interested in Ubiquitie's 900Mhz radios and need real life experience 
>> input.
>> 
>> Do they cut through heavy pine trees? 
>> What is the real distance I can archive through pine trees?
>> Does it have sufficient bandwidth throughput?
>> 
>> I have 3 customers who would like to sign up. They are about one mile away 
>> from the tower. The distance is through heavy pine trees about 80 to 100 
>> feet tall. Any suggestions?
>> 
>> Thank you in advance for your reply.
>> 
>> Ralf
>> Gulf Wireless Inc.
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> Ubnt_users mailing list
>> Ubnt_users@wispa.org
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/ubnt_users
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> ___
>> Ubnt_users mailing list
>> Ubnt_users@wispa.org
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/ubnt_users
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> Ubnt_users mailing list
>> Ubnt_users@wispa.org
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/ubnt_users
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> -RickG
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> Ubnt_users mailing list
>> Ubnt_users@wispa.org
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/ubnt_users
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> -RickG
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Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

[RickG]

The best price I can find is well over $2500. That's 10 times the cost of a
UBNT Rocket 900.

On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 2:48 PM, Rory Conaway 
wrote:

> It’s not too bad.  We have one up, might put up a second one.
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> *From:* ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org  *On
> Behalf Of *RickG
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 29, 2018 8:58 PM
> *To:* Ubiquiti Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz
>
>
>
> Cambium 450i 900 is very pricey!
>
>
>
> On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 12:56 PM, Josh Luthman <
> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>
> Cambium came out with their 450i in 900 in the last couple years.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>
> On Tue, May 29, 2018, 12:54 PM Clay Stewart 
> wrote:
>
> What to expect with the best of experiences. Expect 4-10Mbps in foliage
> and at least 100' over treetops on a tower.  We have a bit of hill which
> makes the difference for eight over the terrain. I would be hard press to
> deploy in flat land with foliage. As with any frequency, it is Terrain,
> Terrain Terrain... and height.
>
>
>
> Get recommendations from someone who has similar terrain, as opinions will
> always matter between those WISPs in various conditions.
>
>
>
> If you have no pending competition in next 24-36 months and have customers
> that can only be serviced via 900Mhz, then try it out.  That is enough time
> to recover investment and make something.
>
>
>
> I agree though, nothing has been done with 900Mhz in a long time, not even
> a shielded radio like the TIs, or a better, lighter sector shielding which
> costs wind load and weight issue for commercial leases.
>
>
>
> We are converting from 900Mhz at a pace required for each market where
> possible. But I expect we will have them for awhile in many spots. Hell, we
> still have a few Alvarians collecting money!
>
>
>
> On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 10:09 AM, Clay Stewart 
> wrote:
>
> You have to use Rocket Yagis with Shielded Sectors to make it work in
> foliage areas.
>
>
>
> On Sat, May 26, 2018 at 3:16 PM, Ralf-Talking Head Productions <
> r...@thpi.net> wrote:
>
> I am interested in Ubiquitie's 900Mhz radios and need real life experience
> input.
>
> Do they cut through heavy pine trees?
> What is the real distance I can archive through pine trees?
> Does it have sufficient bandwidth throughput?
>
> I have 3 customers who would like to sign up. They are about one mile away
> from the tower. The distance is through heavy pine trees about 80 to 100
> feet tall. Any suggestions?
>
> Thank you in advance for your reply.
>
>
> *Ralf Gulf Wireless Inc.*
>
>
> ___
> Ubnt_users mailing list
> Ubnt_users@wispa.org
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/ubnt_users
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
> Ubnt_users mailing list
> Ubnt_users@wispa.org
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/ubnt_users
>
>
> ___
> Ubnt_users mailing list
> Ubnt_users@wispa.org
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/ubnt_users
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> -RickG
>
> ___
> Ubnt_users mailing list
> Ubnt_users@wispa.org
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/ubnt_users
>
>


-- 
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Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

[Rory Conaway]

It’s not too bad.  We have one up, might put up a second one.

Rory

From: ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org  On Behalf Of 
RickG
Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2018 8:58 PM
To: Ubiquiti Users Group 
Subject: Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

Cambium 450i 900 is very pricey!

On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 12:56 PM, Josh Luthman 
mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>> wrote:
Cambium came out with their 450i in 900 in the last couple years.
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Tue, May 29, 2018, 12:54 PM Clay Stewart 
mailto:cstew...@scsbroadband.com>> wrote:
What to expect with the best of experiences. Expect 4-10Mbps in foliage and at 
least 100' over treetops on a tower.  We have a bit of hill which makes the 
difference for eight over the terrain. I would be hard press to deploy in flat 
land with foliage. As with any frequency, it is Terrain, Terrain Terrain... and 
height.

Get recommendations from someone who has similar terrain, as opinions will 
always matter between those WISPs in various conditions.

If you have no pending competition in next 24-36 months and have customers that 
can only be serviced via 900Mhz, then try it out.  That is enough time to 
recover investment and make something.

I agree though, nothing has been done with 900Mhz in a long time, not even a 
shielded radio like the TIs, or a better, lighter sector shielding which costs 
wind load and weight issue for commercial leases.

We are converting from 900Mhz at a pace required for each market where 
possible. But I expect we will have them for awhile in many spots. Hell, we 
still have a few Alvarians collecting money!

On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 10:09 AM, Clay Stewart 
mailto:cstew...@scsbroadband.com>> wrote:
You have to use Rocket Yagis with Shielded Sectors to make it work in foliage 
areas.

On Sat, May 26, 2018 at 3:16 PM, Ralf-Talking Head Productions 
mailto:r...@thpi.net>> wrote:

I am interested in Ubiquitie's 900Mhz radios and need real life experience 
input.

Do they cut through heavy pine trees?
What is the real distance I can archive through pine trees?
Does it have sufficient bandwidth throughput?

I have 3 customers who would like to sign up. They are about one mile away from 
the tower. The distance is through heavy pine trees about 80 to 100 feet tall. 
Any suggestions?

Thank you in advance for your reply.
Ralf
Gulf Wireless Inc.

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Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

[RickG]

Cambium 450i 900 is very pricey!

On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 12:56 PM, Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> Cambium came out with their 450i in 900 in the last couple years.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Tue, May 29, 2018, 12:54 PM Clay Stewart 
> wrote:
>
>> What to expect with the best of experiences. Expect 4-10Mbps in foliage
>> and at least 100' over treetops on a tower.  We have a bit of hill which
>> makes the difference for eight over the terrain. I would be hard press to
>> deploy in flat land with foliage. As with any frequency, it is Terrain,
>> Terrain Terrain... and height.
>>
>> Get recommendations from someone who has similar terrain, as opinions
>> will always matter between those WISPs in various conditions.
>>
>> If you have no pending competition in next 24-36 months and have
>> customers that can only be serviced via 900Mhz, then try it out.  That is
>> enough time to recover investment and make something.
>>
>> I agree though, nothing has been done with 900Mhz in a long time, not
>> even a shielded radio like the TIs, or a better, lighter sector shielding
>> which costs wind load and weight issue for commercial leases.
>>
>> We are converting from 900Mhz at a pace required for each market where
>> possible. But I expect we will have them for awhile in many spots. Hell, we
>> still have a few Alvarians collecting money!
>>
>> On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 10:09 AM, Clay Stewart > > wrote:
>>
>>> You have to use Rocket Yagis with Shielded Sectors to make it work in
>>> foliage areas.
>>>
>>> On Sat, May 26, 2018 at 3:16 PM, Ralf-Talking Head Productions <
>>> r...@thpi.net> wrote:
>>>
 I am interested in Ubiquitie's 900Mhz radios and need real life
 experience input.

 Do they cut through heavy pine trees?
 What is the real distance I can archive through pine trees?
 Does it have sufficient bandwidth throughput?

 I have 3 customers who would like to sign up. They are about one mile
 away from the tower. The distance is through heavy pine trees about 80 to
 100 feet tall. Any suggestions?

 Thank you in advance for your reply.


 *Ralf Gulf Wireless Inc. *

 ___
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 Ubnt_users@wispa.org
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/ubnt_users


>>>
>> ___
>> Ubnt_users mailing list
>> Ubnt_users@wispa.org
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/ubnt_users
>>
>
> ___
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> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/ubnt_users
>
>


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Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

[Josh Luthman]

Cambium came out with their 450i in 900 in the last couple years.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Tue, May 29, 2018, 12:54 PM Clay Stewart 
wrote:

> What to expect with the best of experiences. Expect 4-10Mbps in foliage
> and at least 100' over treetops on a tower.  We have a bit of hill which
> makes the difference for eight over the terrain. I would be hard press to
> deploy in flat land with foliage. As with any frequency, it is Terrain,
> Terrain Terrain... and height.
>
> Get recommendations from someone who has similar terrain, as opinions will
> always matter between those WISPs in various conditions.
>
> If you have no pending competition in next 24-36 months and have customers
> that can only be serviced via 900Mhz, then try it out.  That is enough time
> to recover investment and make something.
>
> I agree though, nothing has been done with 900Mhz in a long time, not even
> a shielded radio like the TIs, or a better, lighter sector shielding which
> costs wind load and weight issue for commercial leases.
>
> We are converting from 900Mhz at a pace required for each market where
> possible. But I expect we will have them for awhile in many spots. Hell, we
> still have a few Alvarians collecting money!
>
> On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 10:09 AM, Clay Stewart 
> wrote:
>
>> You have to use Rocket Yagis with Shielded Sectors to make it work in
>> foliage areas.
>>
>> On Sat, May 26, 2018 at 3:16 PM, Ralf-Talking Head Productions <
>> r...@thpi.net> wrote:
>>
>>> I am interested in Ubiquitie's 900Mhz radios and need real life
>>> experience input.
>>>
>>> Do they cut through heavy pine trees?
>>> What is the real distance I can archive through pine trees?
>>> Does it have sufficient bandwidth throughput?
>>>
>>> I have 3 customers who would like to sign up. They are about one mile
>>> away from the tower. The distance is through heavy pine trees about 80 to
>>> 100 feet tall. Any suggestions?
>>>
>>> Thank you in advance for your reply.
>>>
>>>
>>> *Ralf Gulf Wireless Inc. *
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Ubnt_users mailing list
>>> Ubnt_users@wispa.org
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/ubnt_users
>>>
>>>
>>
> ___
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>
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Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

[Clay Stewart]

What to expect with the best of experiences. Expect 4-10Mbps in foliage and
at least 100' over treetops on a tower.  We have a bit of hill which makes
the difference for eight over the terrain. I would be hard press to deploy
in flat land with foliage. As with any frequency, it is Terrain, Terrain
Terrain... and height.

Get recommendations from someone who has similar terrain, as opinions will
always matter between those WISPs in various conditions.

If you have no pending competition in next 24-36 months and have customers
that can only be serviced via 900Mhz, then try it out.  That is enough time
to recover investment and make something.

I agree though, nothing has been done with 900Mhz in a long time, not even
a shielded radio like the TIs, or a better, lighter sector shielding which
costs wind load and weight issue for commercial leases.

We are converting from 900Mhz at a pace required for each market where
possible. But I expect we will have them for awhile in many spots. Hell, we
still have a few Alvarians collecting money!

On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 10:09 AM, Clay Stewart 
wrote:

> You have to use Rocket Yagis with Shielded Sectors to make it work in
> foliage areas.
>
> On Sat, May 26, 2018 at 3:16 PM, Ralf-Talking Head Productions <
> r...@thpi.net> wrote:
>
>> I am interested in Ubiquitie's 900Mhz radios and need real life
>> experience input.
>>
>> Do they cut through heavy pine trees?
>> What is the real distance I can archive through pine trees?
>> Does it have sufficient bandwidth throughput?
>>
>> I have 3 customers who would like to sign up. They are about one mile
>> away from the tower. The distance is through heavy pine trees about 80 to
>> 100 feet tall. Any suggestions?
>>
>> Thank you in advance for your reply.
>>
>>
>> *Ralf Gulf Wireless Inc. *
>>
>> ___
>> Ubnt_users mailing list
>> Ubnt_users@wispa.org
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/ubnt_users
>>
>>
>
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Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

[Josh Luthman]

I didn't say it didn't work.

I said it doesn't work well.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 10:36 AM, James Wilson  wrote:

> Same here Clay, many of our customers, including our own office have to
> use 900 Mhz, it's either that or go without service.
>
> Somebody (maybe UBNT-SNK) said something about a 900 Mhz LTU product on
> the Ubiquiti forums a few weeks ago, but maybe he was just pulling our legs.
>
> We'd rather not use 900 Mhz, but we have a lot of customers that are able
> to get on the Internet and actually use Netflix because of it!
>
> On Tue, May 29, 2018, 10:25 AM Clay Stewart 
> wrote:
>
>> I guess I need to tell the several hundred subscribers on them for years
>> to cancel.
>>
>> It is a tool in the radio box... just like any other, LTE, 2.4Ghz,
>> 5.8Ghz, 2.5Ghz you grab the best tool for the unique terrain you deal
>> with here and there and tower attributes. There are no bad tools if it
>> works somewhere where others fail.
>>
>> With those 900Mhz customers:
>>
>> If I changed to 2.4Ghz or 5.8Ghz, I would lose 80% of them. LTE 3.65Ghz
>> or 2.5Ghz maybe about a 30% lost or more. More micropops and LTE and 5.8Ghz
>> is the answer to 900Mhz... at a cost and risk on 3.65Ghz in 2020.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 10:16 AM, Josh Luthman <
>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Even then it doesn't really work well...
>>>
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>> On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 10:09 AM, Clay Stewart <
>>> cstew...@scsbroadband.com> wrote:
>>>
 You have to use Rocket Yagis with Shielded Sectors to make it work in
 foliage areas.

 On Sat, May 26, 2018 at 3:16 PM, Ralf-Talking Head Productions <
 r...@thpi.net> wrote:

> I am interested in Ubiquitie's 900Mhz radios and need real life
> experience input.
>
> Do they cut through heavy pine trees?
> What is the real distance I can archive through pine trees?
> Does it have sufficient bandwidth throughput?
>
> I have 3 customers who would like to sign up. They are about one mile
> away from the tower. The distance is through heavy pine trees about 80 to
> 100 feet tall. Any suggestions?
>
> Thank you in advance for your reply.
>
>
> *Ralf Gulf Wireless Inc. *
>
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>

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Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

[Robert Dillon]

If you need any REAL tree penetration use the Rocket/yagi.  We had to upgrade a 
ton of our M900 Loco links to M900 rocket yagi links to fix them up.  But we do 
not put any 900 on towers its just local short range links.

 

 

From: ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org] On 
Behalf Of Ralf-Talking Head Productions
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2018 3:16 PM
To: ubnt_users@wispa.org
Subject: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

 

I am interested in Ubiquitie's 900Mhz radios and need real life experience 
input.

Do they cut through heavy pine trees? 
What is the real distance I can archive through pine trees?
Does it have sufficient bandwidth throughput?

I have 3 customers who would like to sign up. They are about one mile away from 
the tower. The distance is through heavy pine trees about 80 to 100 feet tall. 
Any suggestions?

Thank you in advance for your reply.

Ralf
Gulf Wireless Inc.

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Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

[James Wilson]

Same here Clay, many of our customers, including our own office have to use
900 Mhz, it's either that or go without service.

Somebody (maybe UBNT-SNK) said something about a 900 Mhz LTU product on the
Ubiquiti forums a few weeks ago, but maybe he was just pulling our legs.

We'd rather not use 900 Mhz, but we have a lot of customers that are able
to get on the Internet and actually use Netflix because of it!

On Tue, May 29, 2018, 10:25 AM Clay Stewart 
wrote:

> I guess I need to tell the several hundred subscribers on them for years
> to cancel.
>
> It is a tool in the radio box... just like any other, LTE, 2.4Ghz, 5.8Ghz,
> 2.5Ghz you grab the best tool for the unique terrain you deal with here
> and there and tower attributes. There are no bad tools if it works
> somewhere where others fail.
>
> With those 900Mhz customers:
>
> If I changed to 2.4Ghz or 5.8Ghz, I would lose 80% of them. LTE 3.65Ghz or
> 2.5Ghz maybe about a 30% lost or more. More micropops and LTE and 5.8Ghz is
> the answer to 900Mhz... at a cost and risk on 3.65Ghz in 2020.
>
>
> On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 10:16 AM, Josh Luthman <
> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>
>> Even then it doesn't really work well...
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 10:09 AM, Clay Stewart > > wrote:
>>
>>> You have to use Rocket Yagis with Shielded Sectors to make it work in
>>> foliage areas.
>>>
>>> On Sat, May 26, 2018 at 3:16 PM, Ralf-Talking Head Productions <
>>> r...@thpi.net> wrote:
>>>
 I am interested in Ubiquitie's 900Mhz radios and need real life
 experience input.

 Do they cut through heavy pine trees?
 What is the real distance I can archive through pine trees?
 Does it have sufficient bandwidth throughput?

 I have 3 customers who would like to sign up. They are about one mile
 away from the tower. The distance is through heavy pine trees about 80 to
 100 feet tall. Any suggestions?

 Thank you in advance for your reply.


 *Ralf Gulf Wireless Inc. *

 ___
 Ubnt_users mailing list
 Ubnt_users@wispa.org
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/ubnt_users


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>>
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>>
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Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

[Clay Stewart]

I guess I need to tell the several hundred subscribers on them for years to
cancel.

It is a tool in the radio box... just like any other, LTE, 2.4Ghz, 5.8Ghz,
2.5Ghz you grab the best tool for the unique terrain you deal with here
and there and tower attributes. There are no bad tools if it works
somewhere where others fail.

With those 900Mhz customers:

If I changed to 2.4Ghz or 5.8Ghz, I would lose 80% of them. LTE 3.65Ghz or
2.5Ghz maybe about a 30% lost or more. More micropops and LTE and 5.8Ghz is
the answer to 900Mhz... at a cost and risk on 3.65Ghz in 2020.


On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 10:16 AM, Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> Even then it doesn't really work well...
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 10:09 AM, Clay Stewart 
> wrote:
>
>> You have to use Rocket Yagis with Shielded Sectors to make it work in
>> foliage areas.
>>
>> On Sat, May 26, 2018 at 3:16 PM, Ralf-Talking Head Productions <
>> r...@thpi.net> wrote:
>>
>>> I am interested in Ubiquitie's 900Mhz radios and need real life
>>> experience input.
>>>
>>> Do they cut through heavy pine trees?
>>> What is the real distance I can archive through pine trees?
>>> Does it have sufficient bandwidth throughput?
>>>
>>> I have 3 customers who would like to sign up. They are about one mile
>>> away from the tower. The distance is through heavy pine trees about 80 to
>>> 100 feet tall. Any suggestions?
>>>
>>> Thank you in advance for your reply.
>>>
>>>
>>> *Ralf Gulf Wireless Inc. *
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Ubnt_users mailing list
>>> Ubnt_users@wispa.org
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/ubnt_users
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ___
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>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/ubnt_users
>>
>>
>
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Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

[Josh Luthman]

Even then it doesn't really work well...


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 10:09 AM, Clay Stewart 
wrote:

> You have to use Rocket Yagis with Shielded Sectors to make it work in
> foliage areas.
>
> On Sat, May 26, 2018 at 3:16 PM, Ralf-Talking Head Productions <
> r...@thpi.net> wrote:
>
>> I am interested in Ubiquitie's 900Mhz radios and need real life
>> experience input.
>>
>> Do they cut through heavy pine trees?
>> What is the real distance I can archive through pine trees?
>> Does it have sufficient bandwidth throughput?
>>
>> I have 3 customers who would like to sign up. They are about one mile
>> away from the tower. The distance is through heavy pine trees about 80 to
>> 100 feet tall. Any suggestions?
>>
>> Thank you in advance for your reply.
>>
>>
>> *Ralf Gulf Wireless Inc. *
>>
>> ___
>> Ubnt_users mailing list
>> Ubnt_users@wispa.org
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/ubnt_users
>>
>>
>
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Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

[Clay Stewart]

You have to use Rocket Yagis with Shielded Sectors to make it work in
foliage areas.

On Sat, May 26, 2018 at 3:16 PM, Ralf-Talking Head Productions <
r...@thpi.net> wrote:

> I am interested in Ubiquitie's 900Mhz radios and need real life experience
> input.
>
> Do they cut through heavy pine trees?
> What is the real distance I can archive through pine trees?
> Does it have sufficient bandwidth throughput?
>
> I have 3 customers who would like to sign up. They are about one mile away
> from the tower. The distance is through heavy pine trees about 80 to 100
> feet tall. Any suggestions?
>
> Thank you in advance for your reply.
>
>
> *Ralf Gulf Wireless Inc. *
>
> ___
> Ubnt_users mailing list
> Ubnt_users@wispa.org
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/ubnt_users
>
>
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Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

[Jay Weekley]

It's old gear that in a frequency that is prone to interference and 
Ubiquiti seems to have abandoned any new developments in this area. I've 
seen 17 meg with this gear though others may have seen more. You won't 
know if it will work until you try it though if interference crops up 
and you can't find a clean channel then you can say goodby to your 
customers.  In this case you should look into one of Ubiquiti's 
competitors.

Ralf-Talking Head Productions wrote:
>
> I am interested in Ubiquitie's 900Mhz radios and need real life 
> experience input.
>
> Do they cut through heavy pine trees?
> What is the real distance I can archive through pine trees?
> Does it have sufficient bandwidth throughput?
>
> I have 3 customers who would like to sign up. They are about one mile 
> away from the tower. The distance is through heavy pine trees about 80 
> to 100 feet tall. Any suggestions?
>
> Thank you in advance for your reply.
>
> *Ralf
> Gulf Wireless Inc.
> *
>
> 
>  
>   Virus-free. www.avg.com 
> 
>  
>
>
>
>
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-- 
*Jay Weekley*
*Cyber Broadband
*
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Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz

[RickG]

900 MHz hates pine trees - especially the close up ones! As for Ubiquiti's
product, I have a bunch out there and am somewhat satisfies overall. I've
seen anything from a few megs to over 30 megs as long as you dont expect it
to cut through a heavy forest (less is more in this case). Use Rockets with
Yagis, not the locos. 1 miles isnt bad but I'm concerned about your foliage
density and the fact it's pine needles!

On Sat, May 26, 2018 at 3:16 PM, Ralf-Talking Head Productions <
r...@thpi.net> wrote:

> I am interested in Ubiquitie's 900Mhz radios and need real life experience
> input.
>
> Do they cut through heavy pine trees?
> What is the real distance I can archive through pine trees?
> Does it have sufficient bandwidth throughput?
>
> I have 3 customers who would like to sign up. They are about one mile away
> from the tower. The distance is through heavy pine trees about 80 to 100
> feet tall. Any suggestions?
>
> Thank you in advance for your reply.
>
>
> *Ralf Gulf Wireless Inc. *
>
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> Ubnt_users@wispa.org
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>
>


-- 
-RickG
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