from:"CB Sites"

Jones Beene is correct in that this should be falsifiable.   I think LIGO
could possibly detect this.  Let's say a gravitational wave was moving
across a void in the deep reaches of space where a negative mass value
might be hiding. Wouldn't a gravitational wave be dampened if it was on the
opposite side of the LIGO detector's direction?   Would there be a dampened
gravitational wave signal from far distances not seen or accounted for
compared to closer object signals?


On Wed, Dec 5, 2018 at 5:17 PM Jones Beene  wrote:

>
> A negative mass theory like this should be falsifiable in a
> straightforward way using an ultra-precision scale and ultra-high vacuum
> system to measure the very tiny decrease in weight of a vacuum chamber as
> it is being pumped. The whole system could be mounted on levered arms.
>
> The drop in mass as the vacuum increases should be out of proportion with
> the drop in mass at higher pressure. IOW the last few atoms removed should
> seem to weigh proportionately more, no?
>
>
>
>
> ------
> *From:* CB Sites
>
> Wow.  I just read a science brief on a new theory that explains
> Dark-matter and Dark-energy in a very odd way.  Ponder this one for a
> moment.  Empty space has a negative mass.  Not zero mass but something with
> a minus sign in front of it!  This is a new model worked out by Dr. Jamie
> Farnes of the Oxford e-Research Centre published in 'Astronomy and
> Astrophysics'.  So because empty space has negative mass, it has negative
> gravity and thus the universe is accelerating as it expands from negative
> gravity.
>
> Maybe CNF has tapped into negative mass in the empty space of the lattice
> voids?  Or maybe it's more like stuff from the old movie 'Flubber'.  Either
> way, it's an interesting perspective on Dark matter and Dark energy.
>
>
>
> CB Sites wrote:
>
> Sometimes you stumble on to a story from a source you don't expect.
> Forbes had this write up on Erik Verlinde's theory(s) and I think it will
> give insight to others why Dark matter may simply be an emergent effect by
> the quantum occupation of space/time by matter.   No hard details but a
> nice overview from Forbes;
>
>
> https://www.forbes.com/sites/startswithabang/2017/02/28/is-dark-matter-about-to-be-killed-by-emergent-gravity/#70bcb0d05359
>
> That doesn't mean that something couldn't be oscillating in neutrons
> makeup.   It would just be hard to explain give how baryons decay and
> morph.   See; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_baryons
> and https://www.revolvy.com/page/List-of-particles is also interesting.
> https://www.revolvy.com/page/List-of-baryons points to the problem with
> dark matter.  If it's a baryon, it doesn't fit with anything we know.
>
>
> Jones Beene wrote:
>
>
> I like Erik Verlinde's theory and papers. Definitely worth a read.
>
> Some of his thinking is consistent with the "mirror matter" proposition,
> so long as the mystery particles are generally located in a parallel
> dimension, so that they interact with normal matter minimally no matter how
> they are characterized... and which dimension has remarkable similarity to
> Dirac's reciprocal space. To claim that something (mysterious) is an
> emergent property of something else (better known) is framing the problem
> philosophically and of limited value in pointing to a real-world
> application unless the particles are literally emerging from one dimension
> into another dimension - aka: mirror matter oscillation.
>
> Admittedly, most of this is well above my pay grade to comprehend - so
> unless there is a particularly useful aspect of any theory which can be
> incorporated into LENR experiment, it is more like flag-waving. When a
> researcher says he has evidence that 1% of any neutron beam oscillates so
> as to exhibit the properties of a different kind of neutron ... and can
> decay in our 3-space even if came from another space - that sounds like a
> detail which can be useful somehow and incorporated into experiment. The
> more one looks at the Bush/Eagleton rubidium experiment, the more it seems
> to do this (despite the inventors being completely wrong on their own
> explanation),
>
> In LENR it seems there is a high probability that hydrogen morphs into
> "something else" when confined in a metal matrix - and which species may
> not be the result of nuclear fusion per se. Having a better understanding
> of the properties of that particle would be important - especially if it
> has some broader relevance to a Universal phenomena like dark matter.
>
> --
> *From:* CB Sites
>
> Every story on dark matter simply leaves me confused and perplexed.   The
> first question I would ask is wh

Re: [Vo]:Dark Matter as a "sterile antineutron" and the LENR connection

Sorry;  If you saw this previously, apparently I made a typo in the URL.
It should be;

https://arxiv.org/abs/1712.07962

On Wed, Dec 5, 2018 at 4:43 PM CB Sites  wrote:

> Wow.  I just read a science brief on a new theory that explains
> Dark-matter and Dark-energy in a very odd way.  Ponder this one for a
> moment.  Empty space has a negative mass.  Not zero mass but something with
> a minus sign in front of it!  This is a new model worked out by Dr. Jamie
> Farnes of the Oxford e-Research Centre published in 'Astronomy and
> Astrophysics'.  So because empty space has negative mass, it has negative
> gravity and thus the universe is accelerating as it expands from negative
> gravity.
>
> Maybe CNF has tapped into negative mass in the empty space of the lattice
> voids?  Or maybe it's more like stuff from the old movie 'Flubber'.  Either
> way, it's an interesting perspective on Dark matter and Dark energy.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 4, 2018 at 11:23 AM CB Sites  wrote:
>
>> Sometimes you stumble on to a story from a source you don't expect.
>> Forbes had this write up on Erik Verlinde's theory(s) and I think it will
>> give insight to others why Dark matter may simply be an emergent effect by
>> the quantum occupation of space/time by matter.   No hard details but a
>> nice overview from Forbes;
>>
>>
>> https://www.forbes.com/sites/startswithabang/2017/02/28/is-dark-matter-about-to-be-killed-by-emergent-gravity/#70bcb0d05359
>>
>> That doesn't mean that something couldn't be oscillating in neutrons
>> makeup.   It would just be hard to explain give how baryons decay and
>> morph.   See; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_baryons
>> and https://www.revolvy.com/page/List-of-particles is also
>> interesting.   https://www.revolvy.com/page/List-of-baryons points to
>> the problem with dark matter.  If it's a baryon, it doesn't fit with
>> anything we know.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 4, 2018 at 10:20 AM Jones Beene  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I like Erik Verlinde's theory and papers. Definitely worth a read.
>>>
>>> Some of his thinking is consistent with the "mirror matter" proposition,
>>> so long as the mystery particles are generally located in a parallel
>>> dimension, so that they interact with normal matter minimally no matter how
>>> they are characterized... and which dimension has remarkable similarity to
>>> Dirac's reciprocal space. To claim that something (mysterious) is an
>>> emergent property of something else (better known) is framing the problem
>>> philosophically and of limited value in pointing to a real-world
>>> application unless the particles are literally emerging from one dimension
>>> into another dimension - aka: mirror matter oscillation.
>>>
>>> Admittedly, most of this is well above my pay grade to comprehend - so
>>> unless there is a particularly useful aspect of any theory which can be
>>> incorporated into LENR experiment, it is more like flag-waving. When a
>>> researcher says he has evidence that 1% of any neutron beam oscillates so
>>> as to exhibit the properties of a different kind of neutron ... and can
>>> decay in our 3-space even if came from another space - that sounds like a
>>> detail which can be useful somehow and incorporated into experiment. The
>>> more one looks at the Bush/Eagleton rubidium experiment, the more it seems
>>> to do this (despite the inventors being completely wrong on their own
>>> explanation),
>>>
>>> In LENR it seems there is a high probability that hydrogen morphs into
>>> "something else" when confined in a metal matrix - and which species may
>>> not be the result of nuclear fusion per se. Having a better understanding
>>> of the properties of that particle would be important - especially if it
>>> has some broader relevance to a Universal phenomena like dark matter.
>>>
>>> --
>>> *From:* CB Sites
>>>
>>> Every story on dark matter simply leaves me confused and perplexed.
>>>  The first question I would ask is what is the spin of dark matter.   Is it
>>> a fermion or boson?  If it's a fermion, it has to interact and if it
>>> interacts why is it nearly impossible to see the interaction.   If it's a
>>> Boson, then it would tend to undergo condensation, and you would have a
>>> bose star or a dark matter black hole.  That too should be easy to observe
>>> as a gravitational lens without a source of matter to create it.   Both
>>> have led me to conclude that dark matter is part of the concept of Emergent
>>> Gravity (Entropic Gravity).  Emergent gravity (and emergent dark matter)
>>> doesn't have spin but would effect matter gravitationally and be associated
>>> with matter since it appears out of the warping of small amounts space/time
>>> by the occupation of matter and the entropic warping of space-time from
>>> matter.This is all from ‎Erik Verlinde's theory.   It's good stuff and
>>> I don't understand why it's not the leading candidate for a dark matter
>>> explanation.
>>>
>>>

Re: [Vo]:Dark Matter as a "sterile antineutron" and the LENR connection

Oh.  It's on Arxiv.org.
https://arvix.org/abs/1712.07962


On Wed, Dec 5, 2018 at 4:43 PM CB Sites  wrote:

> Wow.  I just read a science brief on a new theory that explains
> Dark-matter and Dark-energy in a very odd way.  Ponder this one for a
> moment.  Empty space has a negative mass.  Not zero mass but something with
> a minus sign in front of it!  This is a new model worked out by Dr. Jamie
> Farnes of the Oxford e-Research Centre published in 'Astronomy and
> Astrophysics'.  So because empty space has negative mass, it has negative
> gravity and thus the universe is accelerating as it expands from negative
> gravity.
>
> Maybe CNF has tapped into negative mass in the empty space of the lattice
> voids?  Or maybe it's more like stuff from the old movie 'Flubber'.  Either
> way, it's an interesting perspective on Dark matter and Dark energy.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 4, 2018 at 11:23 AM CB Sites  wrote:
>
>> Sometimes you stumble on to a story from a source you don't expect.
>> Forbes had this write up on Erik Verlinde's theory(s) and I think it will
>> give insight to others why Dark matter may simply be an emergent effect by
>> the quantum occupation of space/time by matter.   No hard details but a
>> nice overview from Forbes;
>>
>>
>> https://www.forbes.com/sites/startswithabang/2017/02/28/is-dark-matter-about-to-be-killed-by-emergent-gravity/#70bcb0d05359
>>
>> That doesn't mean that something couldn't be oscillating in neutrons
>> makeup.   It would just be hard to explain give how baryons decay and
>> morph.   See; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_baryons
>> and https://www.revolvy.com/page/List-of-particles is also
>> interesting.   https://www.revolvy.com/page/List-of-baryons points to
>> the problem with dark matter.  If it's a baryon, it doesn't fit with
>> anything we know.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 4, 2018 at 10:20 AM Jones Beene  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I like Erik Verlinde's theory and papers. Definitely worth a read.
>>>
>>> Some of his thinking is consistent with the "mirror matter" proposition,
>>> so long as the mystery particles are generally located in a parallel
>>> dimension, so that they interact with normal matter minimally no matter how
>>> they are characterized... and which dimension has remarkable similarity to
>>> Dirac's reciprocal space. To claim that something (mysterious) is an
>>> emergent property of something else (better known) is framing the problem
>>> philosophically and of limited value in pointing to a real-world
>>> application unless the particles are literally emerging from one dimension
>>> into another dimension - aka: mirror matter oscillation.
>>>
>>> Admittedly, most of this is well above my pay grade to comprehend - so
>>> unless there is a particularly useful aspect of any theory which can be
>>> incorporated into LENR experiment, it is more like flag-waving. When a
>>> researcher says he has evidence that 1% of any neutron beam oscillates so
>>> as to exhibit the properties of a different kind of neutron ... and can
>>> decay in our 3-space even if came from another space - that sounds like a
>>> detail which can be useful somehow and incorporated into experiment. The
>>> more one looks at the Bush/Eagleton rubidium experiment, the more it seems
>>> to do this (despite the inventors being completely wrong on their own
>>> explanation),
>>>
>>> In LENR it seems there is a high probability that hydrogen morphs into
>>> "something else" when confined in a metal matrix - and which species may
>>> not be the result of nuclear fusion per se. Having a better understanding
>>> of the properties of that particle would be important - especially if it
>>> has some broader relevance to a Universal phenomena like dark matter.
>>>
>>> --
>>> *From:* CB Sites
>>>
>>> Every story on dark matter simply leaves me confused and perplexed.
>>>  The first question I would ask is what is the spin of dark matter.   Is it
>>> a fermion or boson?  If it's a fermion, it has to interact and if it
>>> interacts why is it nearly impossible to see the interaction.   If it's a
>>> Boson, then it would tend to undergo condensation, and you would have a
>>> bose star or a dark matter black hole.  That too should be easy to observe
>>> as a gravitational lens without a source of matter to create it.   Both
>>> have led me to conclude that dark matter is part of the concept of Emergent
>>> Gravity (Entropic Gravity).  Emergent gravity (and emergent dark matter)
>>> doesn't have spin but would effect matter gravitationally and be associated
>>> with matter since it appears out of the warping of small amounts space/time
>>> by the occupation of matter and the entropic warping of space-time from
>>> matter.This is all from ‎Erik Verlinde's theory.   It's good stuff and
>>> I don't understand why it's not the leading candidate for a dark matter
>>> explanation.
>>>
>>>

Re: [Vo]:Dark Matter as a "sterile antineutron" and the LENR connection

Wow.  I just read a science brief on a new theory that explains Dark-matter
and Dark-energy in a very odd way.  Ponder this one for a moment.  Empty
space has a negative mass.  Not zero mass but something with a minus sign
in front of it!  This is a new model worked out by Dr. Jamie Farnes of the
Oxford e-Research Centre published in 'Astronomy and Astrophysics'.  So
because empty space has negative mass, it has negative gravity and thus the
universe is accelerating as it expands from negative gravity.

Maybe CNF has tapped into negative mass in the empty space of the lattice
voids?  Or maybe it's more like stuff from the old movie 'Flubber'.  Either
way, it's an interesting perspective on Dark matter and Dark energy.



On Tue, Dec 4, 2018 at 11:23 AM CB Sites  wrote:

> Sometimes you stumble on to a story from a source you don't expect.
> Forbes had this write up on Erik Verlinde's theory(s) and I think it will
> give insight to others why Dark matter may simply be an emergent effect by
> the quantum occupation of space/time by matter.   No hard details but a
> nice overview from Forbes;
>
>
> https://www.forbes.com/sites/startswithabang/2017/02/28/is-dark-matter-about-to-be-killed-by-emergent-gravity/#70bcb0d05359
>
> That doesn't mean that something couldn't be oscillating in neutrons
> makeup.   It would just be hard to explain give how baryons decay and
> morph.   See; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_baryons
> and https://www.revolvy.com/page/List-of-particles is also interesting.
> https://www.revolvy.com/page/List-of-baryons points to the problem with
> dark matter.  If it's a baryon, it doesn't fit with anything we know.
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 4, 2018 at 10:20 AM Jones Beene  wrote:
>
>>
>> I like Erik Verlinde's theory and papers. Definitely worth a read.
>>
>> Some of his thinking is consistent with the "mirror matter" proposition,
>> so long as the mystery particles are generally located in a parallel
>> dimension, so that they interact with normal matter minimally no matter how
>> they are characterized... and which dimension has remarkable similarity to
>> Dirac's reciprocal space. To claim that something (mysterious) is an
>> emergent property of something else (better known) is framing the problem
>> philosophically and of limited value in pointing to a real-world
>> application unless the particles are literally emerging from one dimension
>> into another dimension - aka: mirror matter oscillation.
>>
>> Admittedly, most of this is well above my pay grade to comprehend - so
>> unless there is a particularly useful aspect of any theory which can be
>> incorporated into LENR experiment, it is more like flag-waving. When a
>> researcher says he has evidence that 1% of any neutron beam oscillates so
>> as to exhibit the properties of a different kind of neutron ... and can
>> decay in our 3-space even if came from another space - that sounds like a
>> detail which can be useful somehow and incorporated into experiment. The
>> more one looks at the Bush/Eagleton rubidium experiment, the more it seems
>> to do this (despite the inventors being completely wrong on their own
>> explanation),
>>
>> In LENR it seems there is a high probability that hydrogen morphs into
>> "something else" when confined in a metal matrix - and which species may
>> not be the result of nuclear fusion per se. Having a better understanding
>> of the properties of that particle would be important - especially if it
>> has some broader relevance to a Universal phenomena like dark matter.
>>
>> --
>> *From:* CB Sites
>>
>> Every story on dark matter simply leaves me confused and perplexed.   The
>> first question I would ask is what is the spin of dark matter.   Is it a
>> fermion or boson?  If it's a fermion, it has to interact and if it
>> interacts why is it nearly impossible to see the interaction.   If it's a
>> Boson, then it would tend to undergo condensation, and you would have a
>> bose star or a dark matter black hole.  That too should be easy to observe
>> as a gravitational lens without a source of matter to create it.   Both
>> have led me to conclude that dark matter is part of the concept of Emergent
>> Gravity (Entropic Gravity).  Emergent gravity (and emergent dark matter)
>> doesn't have spin but would effect matter gravitationally and be associated
>> with matter since it appears out of the warping of small amounts space/time
>> by the occupation of matter and the entropic warping of space-time from
>> matter.This is all from ‎Erik Verlinde's theory.   It's good stuff and
>> I don't understand why it's not the leading candidate for a dark matter
>> explanation.
>>
>>

Re: [Vo]:Dark Matter as a "sterile antineutron" and the LENR connection

2018-12-04 Thread CB Sites

Sometimes you stumble on to a story from a source you don't expect.  Forbes
had this write up on Erik Verlinde's theory(s) and I think it will give
insight to others why Dark matter may simply be an emergent effect by the
quantum occupation of space/time by matter.   No hard details but a nice
overview from Forbes;

https://www.forbes.com/sites/startswithabang/2017/02/28/is-dark-matter-about-to-be-killed-by-emergent-gravity/#70bcb0d05359

That doesn't mean that something couldn't be oscillating in neutrons
makeup.   It would just be hard to explain give how baryons decay and
morph.   See; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_baryons
and https://www.revolvy.com/page/List-of-particles is also interesting.
https://www.revolvy.com/page/List-of-baryons points to the problem with
dark matter.  If it's a baryon, it doesn't fit with anything we know.


On Tue, Dec 4, 2018 at 10:20 AM Jones Beene  wrote:

>
> I like Erik Verlinde's theory and papers. Definitely worth a read.
>
> Some of his thinking is consistent with the "mirror matter" proposition,
> so long as the mystery particles are generally located in a parallel
> dimension, so that they interact with normal matter minimally no matter how
> they are characterized... and which dimension has remarkable similarity to
> Dirac's reciprocal space. To claim that something (mysterious) is an
> emergent property of something else (better known) is framing the problem
> philosophically and of limited value in pointing to a real-world
> application unless the particles are literally emerging from one dimension
> into another dimension - aka: mirror matter oscillation.
>
> Admittedly, most of this is well above my pay grade to comprehend - so
> unless there is a particularly useful aspect of any theory which can be
> incorporated into LENR experiment, it is more like flag-waving. When a
> researcher says he has evidence that 1% of any neutron beam oscillates so
> as to exhibit the properties of a different kind of neutron ... and can
> decay in our 3-space even if came from another space - that sounds like a
> detail which can be useful somehow and incorporated into experiment. The
> more one looks at the Bush/Eagleton rubidium experiment, the more it seems
> to do this (despite the inventors being completely wrong on their own
> explanation),
>
> In LENR it seems there is a high probability that hydrogen morphs into
> "something else" when confined in a metal matrix - and which species may
> not be the result of nuclear fusion per se. Having a better understanding
> of the properties of that particle would be important - especially if it
> has some broader relevance to a Universal phenomena like dark matter.
>
> --
> *From:* CB Sites
>
> Every story on dark matter simply leaves me confused and perplexed.   The
> first question I would ask is what is the spin of dark matter.   Is it a
> fermion or boson?  If it's a fermion, it has to interact and if it
> interacts why is it nearly impossible to see the interaction.   If it's a
> Boson, then it would tend to undergo condensation, and you would have a
> bose star or a dark matter black hole.  That too should be easy to observe
> as a gravitational lens without a source of matter to create it.   Both
> have led me to conclude that dark matter is part of the concept of Emergent
> Gravity (Entropic Gravity).  Emergent gravity (and emergent dark matter)
> doesn't have spin but would effect matter gravitationally and be associated
> with matter since it appears out of the warping of small amounts space/time
> by the occupation of matter and the entropic warping of space-time from
> matter.This is all from ‎Erik Verlinde's theory.   It's good stuff and
> I don't understand why it's not the leading candidate for a dark matter
> explanation.
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Dark Matter as a "sterile antineutron" and the LENR connection

2018-12-03 Thread CB Sites

Every story on dark matter simply leaves me confused and perplexed.   The
first question I would ask is what is the spin of dark matter.   Is it a
fermion or boson?  If it's a fermion, it has to interact and if it
interacts why is it nearly impossible to see the interaction.   If it's a
Boson, then it would tend to undergo condensation, and you would have a
bose star or a dark matter black hole.  That too should be easy to observe
as a gravitational lens without a source of matter to create it.   Both
have led me to conclude that dark matter is part of the concept of Emergent
Gravity (Entropic Gravity).  Emergent gravity (and emergent dark matter)
doesn't have spin but would effect matter gravitationally and be associated
with matter since it appears out of the warping of small amounts space/time
by the occupation of matter and the entropic warping of space-time from
matter.This is all from ‎Erik Verlinde's theory.   It's good stuff and
I don't understand why it's not the leading candidate for a dark matter
explanation.

On Mon, Dec 3, 2018 at 4:54 PM Axil Axil  wrote:

> How do you know that gluons exist? Has one ever been isolated?
>
> On Mon, Dec 3, 2018 at 4:39 PM  wrote:
>
>> In reply to  bobcook39...@hotmail.com's message of Mon, 3 Dec 2018
>> 14:12:32
>> +:
>> Hi Bob,
>>
>> Just a guess, but IIRC most of the mass of Neutrons comprises gluons, so
>> perhaps
>> a light neutron would just contain lower energy gluons?
>>
>> (Reminiscent of Jones' theory from years back.)
>>
>> >Robin—
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Regarding my recent comments on the stable of primary particles in the
>> standard model, I had in mind that a light “mirror neutron” would
>> necessarily contain light quarks. not the same as the primary quarks the
>> are imagined per the standard theory.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Is there another explanation for a light neutron containing quarks of
>> the standard theory’s rest mass for quarks?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Bob Cook
>> >
>> >
>> >From: mix...@bigpond.com 
>> >Sent: Saturday, December 1, 2018 4:35:15 PM
>> >To: Vortex-l
>> >Subject: Re: [Vo]:Dark Matter as a "sterile antineutron" and the LENR
>> connection
>> >
>> >PS - another more mundane explanation is that in common with all beta
>> decays,
>> >occasionally (nearly) all the energy is carried away by the
>> anti-neutrino,
>> >leaving the electron with so little that it remains combined with the
>> proton as
>> >an ordinary ground state Hydrogen atom, thus evading detection in the
>> proton
>> >beam experiments.
>> >Regards,
>> >
>> >
>> >Robin van Spaandonk
>> >
>> >local asymmetry = temporary success
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>> Robin van Spaandonk
>>
>> local asymmetry = temporary success
>>
>>

Re: [Vo]:Upcoming paper by Mike Staker

2018-10-25 Thread CB Sites

That is an excellent paper.  Very convincing experimental evidence for a
nuclear effect in Pd-D electrolysis (The P effect), and the proposed
nuclear mechanism is very reasonable; electron screening in deuterons (and
H) in 1-dimensional chains.   Good find Jed.   It looks like I have my
reading for tonight.

On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 4:53 PM Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> See:
>
>
> http://coldfusioncommunity.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/ICCF21_Staker_2_Oct_2018.pdf
>
> I am big fan of Staker. There is quite a lot to digest in this paper.
>
> This is linked to:
>
> http://coldfusioncommunity.net/sav/sav-as-nae/
>
>
>
> Abd: thanks for uploading this.
>

Re: [Vo]:LENR-CANR list of ICCF conferences updated and simplified

2018-08-27 Thread CB Sites

Hey Jed I'd be more than happy to help you out on that. Just drop me an
e-mail on what you need transcribed and I'll give it to go. I would be more
than happy to help.

On Mon, Aug 27, 2018, 4:08 PM Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> The screen is much improved. See:
>
> http://lenr-canr.org/wordpress/?page_id=501
>
> Not all of the Proceedings are available. ICCF-6 is still not fixed. I
> plan to upload ICCF-1 eventually.
>
> Some of the papers are not individually added to the index. I do not plan
> to add them. Because . . . I don't feel like doing it. If you have a copy
> of the EndNote program and you feel like doing it, I will send you the
> files and you can have at it.
>
> I recommend EndNote for anyone who writes papers:
>
> https://endnote.com
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Nano fusion

2018-03-14 Thread CB Sites

What I was reminded of was the periodic lattice and Kim's concept of small
BECs.  I mean WOW!

On Wed, Mar 14, 2018 at 8:02 PM, CB Sites <cbsit...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Saw this today...  Pretty interesting
>
> https://phys.org/news/2018-03-laser-heated-nanowires-micro-
> scale-nuclear-fusion.html
>

[Vo]:Nano fusion

2018-03-14 Thread CB Sites

Saw this today...  Pretty interesting

https://phys.org/news/2018-03-laser-heated-nanowires-micro-scale-nuclear-fusion.html

Re: [Vo]:Eastern coal mining is becoming MORE dangerous

2018-02-19 Thread CB Sites

Your preaching to the chorus Jed.  For every ton of Coal put through the
process of combustion, 2 tons of CO2 are produced.  To maintain a
tolaratable CO2 level if projected into future, requires coal usage to
nullified.  And with coal it can be nullified and counter balanced with
renewables certainly.   As you move up the food chain of petrol energy, it
will be harder to replace.   So from coal to oils, to gas, all need and
have replacements with renewables of more and more sophistication.
Eventually all of the metropolitans societies will need to be 100% electric
to even approach metro zones of carbon neutrality.  The time that requires
is the question isn't it?  Will mankind recognize our desperate situation
in time?

On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 9:34 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> Here is something I did not know.
>
> The accident rate in mines has continued to decline, but this article says
> that more eastern miners are coming down with black lung disease these
> days, because there is less coal and it is more difficult to extract.
>
> https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/19/opinion/trump-coal-decline.html
>
> QUOTE:
>
> "Black lung cases in Appalachia coal miners in those three clinics had
> skyrocketed. The disease was more severe. And coal miners were dying much
> younger than they had been two decades ago. . . .
>
> The most likely causes are the miners’ working longer hours and their
> exposure to deadlier silica dust from cutting into rock to extract coal
> from thinner, harder-to-reach seams. The days of mining for readily
> available coal are long gone. It’s more difficult, and seemingly more
> costly to miners’ health, to extract coal in Appalachia now."
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Bose Einstein Condensate formed at Room Temperature

2017-06-15 Thread CB Sites

Pretty interesting Axil.   Still reading.   I did find a more up-to-date
paper on the magnetic susceptibility of PdH & PdD but this time with a
larger range of loading C > 0.8 H per Pd.   Yes, funny you should mention
Superconductivity...   I'll let the title of the article speak for itself.

"Magnetic and Transport Properties of PdH: Intriguing Superconductive
Observations" Paolo Tripodi1 , Daniele Di Gioacchino, and Jenny Darja Vinko
Brazilian Journal of Physics, vol. 34, no. 3B, September, 2004.
http://www.scielo.br/pdf/bjp/v34n3b/a07v343b.pdf

Could the diamegetic signal from the from the 1974 magnetic susceptibility
measurements be an indication of the onset of superconductivity.   Would
superconductivity indicate the formation of a H/D BEC held by the lattice.
Inquiring minds want to know.

On Wed, Jun 14, 2017 at 9:16 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:

> More details...
>
> *The* *Dzyaloshinskii–Moriya Interaction produces magnetic knots under
> the influence of an unbalanced magnetic field.*
>
> I need to read this paper to see how this all works.
>
>
> *http://web.science.uu.nl/itf/Teaching/2014/2014vanDijk.pdf
> *
>
>
>
> *Skyrmions and the Dzyaloshinskii-Moriya  InteractionComputing the
> Dzyaloshinskii-Moriya interaction for small and large spin-orbit couplings*
> This mechanism will produce pseudo particles through spin orbit couplings.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 14, 2017 at 9:02 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>
>> More details...
>>
>> The function of the electromagnetic shock is to change the state of the
>> magnetic system so that the spin of that system is converted to anisotropic.
>>
>> The magnetism inherent to a system like the Golden balls by Cravins is
>> already anisotropic. There might be other magnetic systems that are
>> inherently anisotropic.
>>
>> Anisotropic magnetism is required to instantiate instantons inside the
>> proton.
>>
>>
>> https://www.nature.com/articles/srep16184
>>
>>
>> *Topological, non-topological and instanton droplets driven by
>> spin-transfer torque in materials with perpendicular magnetic anisotropy
>> and Dzyaloshinskii–Moriya Interaction*
>>
>>
>> This article explains how a unbalanced magnetic field can produce an
>> instanton.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 14, 2017 at 8:50 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>>
>>> I would value an example or two that will support this assertion.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 14, 2017 at 8:07 PM, Jed Rothwell 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Axil Axil  wrote:

> To the best of my understanding, the LENR reaction is a two step
> process. First, the heat of the system must be turned into an amplified
> spin system. Then this spin system us TRIGGED by the application of a
> strong EMP pulse that could be either light as in a laser pulse or an
> electrostatic pulse as in a spark, This trigger uses the KERR effect to
> change the state of the system.
>

 There is a problem with this theory. Cold fusion often starts without
 the triggers you describe.

 - Jed

>>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:Bose Einstein Condensate formed at Room Temperature

2017-06-14 Thread CB Sites

Hi Bob,  you got me to thinking how to measure any changes in spin coupling
or the how to detect a BEC in solid and so I began to wonder if measuring
magnetic susceptibility in PdH and PdD would show anything.  I found an
interesting old paper by H C Jamieson and F D Manchester "The magnetic
susceptibility of Pd, PdH and PdD between 4 and 300 K" 1972 J. Phys. F:
Met. Phys. 2 323 http://iopscience.iop.org/0305-4608/2/2/023.

This was from back in the 70s so take it as you may.   What I found
interesting is in the beta phase of Pd (H) was tending to be diamagnetic
(repels) and nearly independent of temperature.  That would seem to
indicate that the H are becoming spin aligned and could hint at the
formation of a BEC system.  I also see a trend that D is also heading
towards diamagenetic (negative susceptibility) with increasing  D loading.

So does someone have a newer paper on the subject?





On Wed, Jun 14, 2017 at 1:37 PM, bobcook39...@hotmail.com <
bobcook39...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> CD Sites—
>
>
>
> I have for some time been of the mind that nuclear potential energy tied
> up in a lattice of coherent (entangled) particles is transfered to the
> lattice electrons in the form of spin orbital momentum—phonic energy during
> LENR.
>
>
>
> In the Pd system with D at high loading a small BEC of D nuclei  could
> form and then fuse to He g iven the correct  conditions involving EM
> coupling to link neutron and proton magnetic moments with magnetic moments
> of the Pd lattice electrons.  In this regard I consider it takes a
> relatively strong local B field to accomplish the necessary coupling with
> the neutron and proton making up a D nucleus.
>
>
>
> The BEC status of D’s within the lattice would allow their close approach
> during a reaction forming a He nucleus.  The potential energy released
> would not result in energetic particles or EM radiation, but only phonic
> (spin) energy spread across the entire lattice.
>
>
>
> With proper resonant coupling and many BEC within a single lattice a
> larger, more energetic, reaction occurs releasing enough phonic energy to
> destroy the lattice or to create a bosenova.
>
>
>
> The reactions suggested above seem to fit observations from Pd system LENR
> testing IMHO.
>
>
>
> Bob Cook.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *CB Sites <cbsit...@gmail.com>
> *Sent: *Tuesday, June 13, 2017 3:49 PM
> *To: *vortex-l <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
> *Subject: *Re: [Vo]:Bose Einstein Condensate formed at Room Temperature
>
>
>
> I'm kind of late on this, but would spin conservation do what Ed Storm
> asked?
>
>
>
> "However, why would only a few hydrons fuse leaving just enough unreacted
> hydrons available to carry all the energy without it producing
>
> energetic radiation? I would expect occasionally,many hydrons would fuse
> leaving too few unreacted hydrons so that the dissipated energy
>
> would have to be very energetic and easily detected."
>
>
>
>   If I remember, Steve and Talbot Chubbs had proposed that bose band
> states could distribute the energy over many nucleons
>
> in the band state.  In a 1D kronig-penny model of a periodic potential, H
> and D form bands and their band energy levels are separated by a
>
> 0.2eV, which means when 20MeV is spread across the band, the spectrum
> would be 20MeV / (n * 0.2eV) where n are the number of hyrons
>
> making up the band.  That's just back of the envelope using a 2D
> kronig-penny period potential.  And all of that photon energy spread over
>
> n-hydrons gets dumped right back into the lattice.  Similar in a sense to
> the Mossbauer effect.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 6:50 PM, Axil Axil <janap...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/2017/jun/12/
> superfluid-polaritons-seen-at-room-temperature
>
>
> Superfluid polaritons seen at room temperature
>
>
>
> the polaritons behave like a fluid that can flow without friction around
> obstacles, which were formed by using a laser to burn small holes in the
> organic material. This is interpreted by the researchers as being a
> signature of the superfluid behaviour.
>
>
>
> there might be some sort of link between a superfluid and a Bose–Einstein
> condensate (BEC) – the latter being a state of matter in which all
> constituent particles have condensed into a single quantum state. He was
> proved right in 1995 when superfluidity was observed in BECs made from
> ultracold atoms
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 8, 2017 at 1:54 PM, Axil Axil <janap...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> A Bose condinsate brings super radiance and super absorption into play.
>

Re: [Vo]:Bose Einstein Condensate formed at Room Temperature

2017-06-13 Thread CB Sites

Y.E. Kim also has an interesting theory paper that demonstrates the
possibility of a high temperature BEC for the hydrons.  I think it was
constrained in a lattice as well.
I always thought that would be an excellent research topic, the formation
of hydron BECS in solids, there detection and measurement.






On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 7:49 PM, CB Sites <cbsit...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm kind of late on this, but would spin conservation do what Ed Storm
> asked?
>
> "However, why would only a few hydrons fuse leaving just enough unreacted
> hydrons available to carry all the energy without it producing
> energetic radiation? I would expect occasionally,many hydrons would fuse
> leaving too few unreacted hydrons so that the dissipated energy
> would have to be very energetic and easily detected."
>
>   If I remember, Steve and Talbot Chubbs had proposed that bose band
> states could distribute the energy over many nucleons
> in the band state.  In a 1D kronig-penny model of a periodic potential, H
> and D form bands and their band energy levels are separated by a
> 0.2eV, which means when 20MeV is spread across the band, the spectrum
> would be 20MeV / (n * 0.2eV) where n are the number of hyrons
> making up the band.  That's just back of the envelope using a 2D
> kronig-penny period potential.  And all of that photon energy spread over
> n-hydrons gets dumped right back into the lattice.  Similar in a sense to
> the Mossbauer effect.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 6:50 PM, Axil Axil <janap...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/2017/jun/12/superfl
>> uid-polaritons-seen-at-room-temperature
>>
>> Superfluid polaritons seen at room temperature
>>
>> the polaritons behave like a fluid that can flow without friction around
>> obstacles, which were formed by using a laser to burn small holes in the
>> organic material. This is interpreted by the researchers as being a
>> signature of the superfluid behaviour.
>>
>> there might be some sort of link between a superfluid and a Bose–Einstein
>> condensate (BEC) – the latter being a state of matter in which all
>> constituent particles have condensed into a single quantum state. He was
>> proved right in 1995 when superfluidity was observed in BECs made from
>> ultracold atoms
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 8, 2017 at 1:54 PM, Axil Axil <janap...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> A Bose condinsate brings super radiance and super absorption into play.
>>> These mechanisms produce concentration, storage,  and amplification of low
>>> level energy and goes as "N", the number of items in the condinsate.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jun 8, 2017 at 9:46 AM, Frank Znidarsic <fznidar...@aol.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Why is a Bose Condensate needed?  Its a matter of size and energy.  The
>>>> smaller the size of something we want to see the more energy it takes.
>>>> Using low energy radar you will never be able to read something as small as
>>>> this text.  You need to go to UV energies to study atoms.  Higher ionizing
>>>> energies are needed to study the nuclear forces.  Really high energy
>>>> accelerator energies are required to look at subatomic particles.
>>>>
>>>> The common complaint physicists have with cold fusion is that the
>>>> energy levels are to low to induce any type of nuclear reaction.  They
>>>> never, however, considered the energy levels of a large hundreds of atoms
>>>> wide condensed nano-particle.  Its energy levels are quite low.  Warm
>>>> thermal vibrations appear to the nano particle as a high energy
>>>> excitation.  This again is a matter of its size.  It's not cracks, or
>>>> shrunken atoms at work.  It is the thermal excitation of a nano particle
>>>> that yields the required energy.
>>>>
>>>> Again the simulation induces a velocity of one million meters per
>>>> second.
>>>>
>>>> Frank Z
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:Bose Einstein Condensate formed at Room Temperature

2017-06-13 Thread CB Sites

I'm kind of late on this, but would spin conservation do what Ed Storm
asked?

"However, why would only a few hydrons fuse leaving just enough unreacted
hydrons available to carry all the energy without it producing
energetic radiation? I would expect occasionally,many hydrons would fuse
leaving too few unreacted hydrons so that the dissipated energy
would have to be very energetic and easily detected."

  If I remember, Steve and Talbot Chubbs had proposed that bose band states
could distribute the energy over many nucleons
in the band state.  In a 1D kronig-penny model of a periodic potential, H
and D form bands and their band energy levels are separated by a
0.2eV, which means when 20MeV is spread across the band, the spectrum would
be 20MeV / (n * 0.2eV) where n are the number of hyrons
making up the band.  That's just back of the envelope using a 2D
kronig-penny period potential.  And all of that photon energy spread over
n-hydrons gets dumped right back into the lattice.  Similar in a sense to
the Mossbauer effect.

On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 6:50 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:

> http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/2017/jun/12/
> superfluid-polaritons-seen-at-room-temperature
>
> Superfluid polaritons seen at room temperature
>
> the polaritons behave like a fluid that can flow without friction around
> obstacles, which were formed by using a laser to burn small holes in the
> organic material. This is interpreted by the researchers as being a
> signature of the superfluid behaviour.
>
> there might be some sort of link between a superfluid and a Bose–Einstein
> condensate (BEC) – the latter being a state of matter in which all
> constituent particles have condensed into a single quantum state. He was
> proved right in 1995 when superfluidity was observed in BECs made from
> ultracold atoms
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 8, 2017 at 1:54 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>
>> A Bose condinsate brings super radiance and super absorption into play.
>> These mechanisms produce concentration, storage,  and amplification of low
>> level energy and goes as "N", the number of items in the condinsate.
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 8, 2017 at 9:46 AM, Frank Znidarsic 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Why is a Bose Condensate needed?  Its a matter of size and energy.  The
>>> smaller the size of something we want to see the more energy it takes.
>>> Using low energy radar you will never be able to read something as small as
>>> this text.  You need to go to UV energies to study atoms.  Higher ionizing
>>> energies are needed to study the nuclear forces.  Really high energy
>>> accelerator energies are required to look at subatomic particles.
>>>
>>> The common complaint physicists have with cold fusion is that the energy
>>> levels are to low to induce any type of nuclear reaction.  They never,
>>> however, considered the energy levels of a large hundreds of atoms wide
>>> condensed nano-particle.  Its energy levels are quite low.  Warm thermal
>>> vibrations appear to the nano particle as a high energy excitation.  This
>>> again is a matter of its size.  It's not cracks, or shrunken atoms at
>>> work.  It is the thermal excitation of a nano particle that yields the
>>> required energy.
>>>
>>> Again the simulation induces a velocity of one million meters per second.
>>>
>>> Frank Z
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]: Type A palladium from JM... was Bose Einstein Condensate

2017-06-12 Thread CB Sites

I wanted to toss a couple of thoughts in on BEC's in solid state.  If you
have never read Scott and Talbot Chubb's papers, I highly recommend them.
Also Y.E. Kim's BEC theory works fits in all of this. They are all in Jed's
library.  Y.E. Kim has a great body of work on BEC formations in solids,
and the Chubb's had some excellent solids state band models that would
describe well BEC formation in solids. A Kronig-Penny model of a periodic
potential demonstrates that H in metals will form band states that follows
Pauli exclusion or D bands that follow a Bose-Einstein model.   It's
obvious how fragile the metallurgy is for crystal structure and period
potential as it will impact the formation of band states and the BEC in
solids.

That said, I think the BEC theories Chubb, Kim, etc.  can really open the
doors on CF realizations.

On Mon, Jun 12, 2017 at 11:14 PM,  wrote:

> In reply to  Jones Beene's message of Mon, 12 Jun 2017 13:21:41 -0700:
> Hi,
> [snip]
> >It should be noted that several researchers are convinced that the
> >silver addition is also a reactant in some undefined nuclear way. Both
> >palladium, silver and nickel are catalysts for the Mills version of
> >dense hydrogen/deuterium - and that is not likely to coincidental.
> >
> The odd numbered elements tend to be less stable than even numbered
> elements,
> because they have an unpaired proton. That's why you see the odd numbered
> elements usually only having one or two stable isotopes.
> It also makes them prime candidates for a reaction where a proton is added
> and
> an alpha particle is ejected, because both the alpha & the remaining
> nucleus are
> both even numbered, and hence quite stable.
>
> Silver is element number 47, and hence odd, so the reactions:-
>
> 1H+107Ag => 104Pd + 4He + 5.852 MeV
>
> &
>
> 1H+109Ag => 106Pd + 4He + 6.043 MeV
>
> may well be "easy". (...and the Pd is worth more than the Ag too, bonus
> point!)
>
> By the same reasoning I would expect Cu to work too.
>
> However in order for such a reaction to occur it may be necessary for
> there to
> be plenty of atomic H on hand, which in turn implies that they are most
> likely
> to occur when the Ag/Cu is in the presence of a spillover catalyst, such
> as Pd
> or Ni.
> Nano particle Cu/Ni alloy might be an interesting place to start, or a
> thorough
> mixture of Cu & Ni nano particles.
> Regards,
>
> Robin van Spaandonk
>
> http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Bose Einstein Condensate formed at Room Temperature

2017-06-12 Thread CB Sites

You know what Axil.  The Entropic Gravity theory was one of the few
theories that made me step back and made me do a double take and change my
view of how gravity works.   It's not a coincidence that gravity just
doesn't fit into standard model.  If gravity is due to entropic forces of
an occupied space partition, it makes sense that gravity is not part of the
standard model.  There is no need for gravitinos or mediators.  Relativity
and space-time curvature all fit nicely into that model.

If you do physics and have never read the papers on Entropic Gravity, I
highly recommend you do.  It may very well change your whole view on the
universe.


On Mon, Jun 12, 2017 at 1:38 AM, Axil Axil  wrote:

> Here is the description of entropic force and why there is not dark matter
> particle,,,hydrino.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropic_gravity
>
> LENR will prove this theory and change science and cosmology.
>
> On Mon, Jun 12, 2017 at 1:10 AM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>
>> When particles are entangled, they are connected to each other by a
>> wormhole that circumvents normal space time correlations.
>>
>> see
>>
>> https://www.sciencenews.org/blog/context/new-einstein-equati
>> on-wormholes-quantum-gravity
>>
>> Space time is now believed to be connected through long range
>> entanglement. The forces of nature are emergent from entanglement.  This is
>> why BECs are important in LENR because the nature of these fundamental
>> forces are affected by the BEC. These forces are called entropic forces.
>>
>> Without a BEC, LENR produces radioactive isotopes. With a BEC, LENR
>> produces stable isotopes. The BEC increases the activity of the electroweak
>> force.
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 12, 2017 at 12:49 AM,  wrote:
>>
>>> In reply to  bobcook39...@hotmail.com's message of Mon, 12 Jun 2017
>>> 00:19:54
>>> +:
>>> Hi Bob,
>>> [snip]
>>> >Robin—
>>> >It’s the last sentence in the introduction that is pertinent.  It makes
>>> the point that the BEC
>>> >Can be described by a wave function as if it were a single particle.
>>>
>>> Not exactly "as if". You missed the word "parallel". IOW the two wave
>>> functions
>>> share some properties in common, but not necessarily all. In fact he says
>>> "collective" properties, IOW those properties which can be shared by a
>>> collection. That doesn't include position.
>>> [snip]
>>> >You suggest that a coherent system state as described by a wave
>>> function does include a specification of probable . relative location of
>>> charge centers and/or magnetic dipole centers.  What  are the parameters of
>>> the system state that you believe the paper considers are pertinent?
>>>
>>> For that I would have to read the whole paper, and I am not so inclined
>>> at the
>>> moment. But if you find something to support your position, and post it
>>> here,
>>> I'll be happy to discuss it with you.
>>> [snip]
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Robin van Spaandonk
>>>
>>> http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:Neuglu confirmed

2016-08-16 Thread CB Sites

>From what I read of the paper, it's a very short range force;  perhaps 12fm
but the signal seen was at 6.8 sigma,  The paper is located here:
http://arxiv.org/pdf/1604.07411v1.pdf   Interesting read.  Where this
becomes relevant is in the electron screening that metals provide in Pd(D).
Maybe Ni(H) and as Jones point's out, how D+D->He4  goes to heat without
gamma, neutrons or a signature of a 24MeV radiation signature.   It's a
good hand-waving argument Jones.


On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 9:08 PM, Jones Beene  wrote:

> In answer to an offline question about testing or falsifying this 5th
> force hypothesis without the expense of heavy isotopes of palladium – one 
> option
> comes to mind just now.
>
> Remember the “bubble fusion” experiment of Rusi Taleyarkhan? He was
> vindicated in his use of the very heavy element Californium as an
> accelerant for fusion (it’s been a long time but his name is still in my
> spell-checker, along with bremsstrahlung J
>
> Well – the heavier and more neutron rich the element used, the more
> likely it would be to have a surplus of neuglu bosons – at least as I
> understand it. Californium would not decay fast enough to help on its own
> in terms of anomalous energy – but it could supply a steady source of
> neuglu to fuse deuterons in other ways - which would then provide the
> thermal gain in many types of experiments including electrolysis and
> Arata-type.
>
> In fact, Rusi used an amount so tiny it should not have mattered, expect
> to his jealous peers. Yet the Cf was beneficial – and the reason could and
> probably did relate to neuglu. Cf is not cheap or available however.
>
> As Bob Cook implied from a recent IE article – there could be some of the
> same magic with U, a bit lighter … but if cost is important -  by far the
> most economical thing to do for a potential neuglu source is to
> cannibalize a few smoke detectors for the Americium. There are vids on
> YouTube to show you how to remove handle the stuff.
>
> But even in micrograms, this is risky business and I am not advocating it.
>

Re: [Vo]:Neuglu confirmed

2016-08-16 Thread CB Sites

Jones,  I really like your idea.   I instantly thought the same thing when
I read the article about the 5 force.   It certainly is better than some
published theories I've read on LENR.

On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 6:26 PM, Jones Beene  wrote:

> *From:* Bob Cook
>
>
>
> How do you explain the transfer of the excess energy  to the metal lattice
> as heat ?
>
>
>
>
>
> Hagelstein’s theory for phonon transfer keeps improving over the years. In
> his theory, the less energy which needs to be shed in the first few
> downshifts, the more likely the modality becomes since the spread between
> frequencies becomes manageable… and starting with about 1/3 the starting
> energy of normal D+D -- due to retro-causality, perhaps the neuglu
> hypothesis provides a better fit for Hagelstein…
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:LIVE ON YOUTUBE: Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project: GlowStick 5.3 - Ready to power climb

2016-04-16 Thread CB Sites

I have to say.  This one is pretty fascinating.  At 1000+C they had a delta
T of 30C between a fueled and unfueled cell that lasted for hours, until I
gave up.



On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 2:35 PM, Che  wrote:

>
>
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfAJv-jhCY8=em-lbcastemail-np
>

Re: [Vo]:Help the history of cold fusion

2016-04-05 Thread CB Sites

Way back in the 1990-94 period I had a number of words with Douglas
Morrison of CERN, Frack Close (Too Hot to Handle), Richard (Dick) Blue (Oak
ridge).   You can find some of the old discussions in google groups; search
'sci.physics.fusion chuck sites morrison' for a nice heated exchange
between Morrison and I.   Of course Jed, and Michael Swartz also are there
in that period of time, and can be found the same way.It's kind of fun.
I even see something called, "The Russ George Experiment" for 2000.

I have a request of fellow Vorts, that is will you please contribute your
recollections and references as to the attacks on cold fusion over the
years. I will organize this into a Who’s Who of the trolls in this field.
There is a case to be made that the world would have been spared an
incredible amount of grief and destruction if the dedicated attacks against
cold fusion had not been so successfully waged and still are.



Please just post a note, hopefully with a link to and specific reference
info, here in the Vortex. Think of it as a ‘crowd history’ research project!



Thanks

Re: [Vo]:Help the history of cold fusion

2016-04-05 Thread CB Sites

Way back in the 1990-94 period I had a number of words with Douglas
Morrison of CERN, Frack Close (Too Hot to Handle), Richard (Dick) Blue (Oak
ridge).   You can find some of the old discussions in google groups; search
'sci.physics.fusion chuck sites morrison' for a nice heated exchange
between Morrison and I.   Of course Jed, and Michael Swartz also are there
in that period of time, and can be found the same way.It's kind of fun.
I even see something called, "The Russ George Experiment" in
sci.physics.fusion circa 2000.   Anyway, those were some of the early ones
I recall.

On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 12:50 PM, Russ George  wrote:

> I have a request of fellow Vorts, that is will you please contribute your
> recollections and references as to the attacks on cold fusion over the
> years. I will organize this into a Who’s Who of the trolls in this field.
> There is a case to be made that the world would have been spared an
> incredible amount of grief and destruction if the dedicated attacks against
> cold fusion had not been so successfully waged and still are.
>
>
>
> Please just post a note, hopefully with a link to and specific reference
> info, here in the Vortex. Think of it as a ‘crowd history’ research project!
>
>
>
> Thanks
>

[Vo]:Heavy fermions and superconductivity

2016-02-01 Thread CB Sites

There is an interesting article at

http://www.rdmag.com/news/2016/01/heavy-fermions-get-nuclear-boost-way-superconductivity

The question it sparks in my mind is, if heavy fermions act as if they have
a large mass electrons, could they behave similar to Muon's and cause
fusion of the host material is deuterated?

I recall one paper that discussed the effective mass of electrons in metal
potentially altering the electron screening potential.   Could large
effective mass of heavy fermions improve the expected fusion rates for
deuterated metals?

It could be fun to work out.

Re: [Vo]:Story on climate crisis would need some comments

2015-12-04 Thread CB Sites

a.ashfield posts a link to a graph from the IPCC showing computer model
trends with two additional plots overlayed showing data from 2 satellite
data sets and 4 balloon.  Thanks for the graph.  It's easy to explain why
the two plots are so different.  The  2 Satellite data sets and 4 balloon
data sets are all sampling very upper atmosphere temps and the upper
atmospheric temps simply do not change much.   Nor should it.  At the top
of the atmosphere temp should correlate closely to the the solar input.  If
you read the paper I linked this is mentioned in the first couple of pages.
  Unfortunately many people do not know this, and post it as proof that the
IPCC models are some how skewed or bias.

The link I provided is a good unbiased paper that tells it like it is for
the physics behind global warming.   If you don't want to wade through all
of the math and math proofs this student uses to make his case, then just
read the introduction, the conclusions.  His conclusion is broadly
generalized to a global average temp but it's soundly derived.

On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 10:23 PM, a.ashfield <a.ashfi...@verizon.net> wrote:

>
> <http://www.mail-archive.com/search?l=vortex-l@eskimo.com=from:%22CB+Sites%22>
> <http://www.mail-archive.com/search?l=vortex-l@eskimo.com=date:20151203>CB
> Sites wrote: "In regards to the physics of global warming, it's very real."
> Of course it's warming.  The world has warmed 0.5C/century since the end
> of the Little Ice Age, but I doubt that is what you meant.
>
> Your linked paper may well be right based on the assumptions used.  The
> problem is the assumptions are wrong. Some are missing.   None of the
> models can hindcaste well beyond the range for which they were tuned
> because  they don't yet understand things like clouds and cannot forecast
> the multidecadal oscillations as these are chaotic.
>
> You can see just how poorly they all work in the following link (there are
> many similar), no matter that someone has written a paper proving by
> another model that the models are right.
>
> http://b-i.forbesimg.com/peterferrara/files/2013/11/Roy-Spencer-IPCC-Models1-1024x711.jpg
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Story on climate crisis would need some comments

2015-12-03 Thread CB Sites

Claytor does seem to have some interesting work.  Indeed.

In regards to the physics of global warming, it's very real.  It is certain
to be very disruptive to civilization and biosystems for 1000s of years.
For some background, this is an award winning student physics paper that
provides some mathematical bases for acceptance of global warming.

 http://sections.maa.org/epadel/students/studentWinners/2010_Hamermesh.pdf

On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 5:09 PM, Jones Beene  wrote:

> *From:* Bob Higgins
>
>
>
> Ø   Sorry for the characterization of Claytor's work as
> electrochemical - it was gas phase plasma with Pd.  While it is a gas phase
> plasma reaction, the reaction appears to be occurring at the metal surface.
>
> FWIW … At the MIT Colloquium last summer, Claytor indicated he has switched
> to Mu metal as giving significantly better results than palladium.
>
> Specifically he mentioned Co-Netic AA, a brand of Mu metal consisting of
> nickel(80%), iron(15%) and molybdenum(5%) with permeability of 30,000.
> Notably, all three are Mills catalysts.
>
>

Re: [Vo]:slide deck for ultradense hydrogen / Leif Holmlid

2015-10-25 Thread CB Sites

Thanks Eric.   There are a lot of interesting ideas presented in that slide
show, many of the ideas I've seen commented on here.  In one of his last
slides he mentions theoretical solutions, one being multibody fusion
hinting at a Chubb's style n-body fusion.  Conceptually I've always found
the S & T Chubb line of theory for cold fusion to be elegant and plausible.
There is no reason why N-body solid state quantum mechanics can't apply to
hydrogen in metal like it does to electrons in a metal. Quantum band states
of H on Ni have been demonstrated (as a surface effect). *Sorry I don't
recall the 1980's paper*  I think it was in Science.

Anyway, as new experimental developments have come about, the solid state
concepts applied to protium/metal make their theories less applicable. The
Rydberg atomic fusion process would seem interesting if not so far
fetched.  Maybe if I understood the quantum mechanics of how a Rydberg atom
formed in a metal lattice at temps above room temperature. And then how to
prove it.  I think I need to understand the theory a little more.

On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 11:07 PM, Eric Walker <eric.wal...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 9:52 PM, CB Sites <cbsit...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I found that to be a very interesting slide show.  Is there an audio/video
>> track of the lecture to go with it?
>
>
> That is from HyperPhysics, a Web site authored largely by Rod Nave, now a
> retired physics professor from Georgia State University.  There is no
> accompanying audio or video that I am aware of.  It's inspired by the old
> HyperCard program.  I have found it a very useful site.
>
> Eric
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:slide deck for ultradense hydrogen / Leif Holmlid

2015-10-25 Thread CB Sites

Dave,  Doesn't the Pauli exclusion principle come about from the quantum
mechanical magnetic moment of the particle's spin state.  That would seem
to be a physical attribute of the particle and not something that can
easily be wiped away.


On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 12:39 AM, CB Sites <cbsit...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks Eric.   There are a lot of interesting ideas presented in that
> slide show, many of the ideas I've seen commented on here.  In one of his
> last slides he mentions theoretical solutions, one being multibody fusion
> hinting at a Chubb's style n-body fusion.  Conceptually I've always found
> the S & T Chubb line of theory for cold fusion to be elegant and plausible.
> There is no reason why N-body solid state quantum mechanics can't apply to
> hydrogen in metal like it does to electrons in a metal. Quantum band states
> of H on Ni have been demonstrated (as a surface effect). *Sorry I don't
> recall the 1980's paper*  I think it was in Science.
>
> Anyway, as new experimental developments have come about, the solid state
> concepts applied to protium/metal make their theories less applicable. The
> Rydberg atomic fusion process would seem interesting if not so far
> fetched.  Maybe if I understood the quantum mechanics of how a Rydberg atom
> formed in a metal lattice at temps above room temperature. And then how to
> prove it.  I think I need to understand the theory a little more.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 11:07 PM, Eric Walker <eric.wal...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 9:52 PM, CB Sites <cbsit...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I found that to be a very interesting slide show.  Is there an
>>> audio/video track of the lecture to go with it?
>>
>>
>> That is from HyperPhysics, a Web site authored largely by Rod Nave, now a
>> retired physics professor from Georgia State University.  There is no
>> accompanying audio or video that I am aware of.  It's inspired by the old
>> HyperCard program.  I have found it a very useful site.
>>
>> Eric
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:slide deck for ultradense hydrogen / Leif Holmlid

2015-10-25 Thread CB Sites

I found that to be a very interesting slide show.  Is there an audio/video
track of the lecture to go with it?


On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 9:24 PM, Eric Walker  wrote:

> On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 8:05 PM, David Roberson 
> wrote:
>
> Being a skeptic, I have to question the Pauli exclusion principal itself.
>> How do we know that it is actually a physical reality?  It may have
>> appeared true during most of the previous experimentation, but how can we
>> be sure it is anything more than an observation that has worked up until
>> now?
>
>
> The Pauli exclusion principle is your friend.  It is why rigid bodies are
> rigid.  It is why you and I are not falling towards the center of the
> earth.  It's why additional electrons must occupy higher levels in atomic
> orbitals once lower ones are filled.  It is why neutron stars don't
> collapse into a single point [1].
>
> I think of fermions as being a class of wave that is susceptible to
> destructive interference.  When two electrons of the same wavefunction are
> near one another, they begin to cancel one another out.  This means that
> the closer you approach the region in which they would otherwise overlap,
> the less you will be likely to see either.  This is a very intuitive
> explanation for me, since it's clear that waves sometimes destructively
> interfere with one another.
>
> If we set aside the Pauli exclusion principle, we must be prepared to
> offer an alternative explanation for all of the things above.
>
> Eric
>
>
> [1] http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/astro/pulsar.html#c3
>
>

[Vo]:Fwd: [From Quarks to Quasars] Contact Us

2015-08-21 Thread CB Sites

Forwarded conversation
Subject: Re: [From Quarks to Quasars] Contact Us

From: *From Quarks To Quasars* fromquarkstoquas...@gmail.com
Date: Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 9:24 AM
To: Chuck Sites cbsit...@gmail.com

Hi Chuck,

The article will not be retracted. It is scientific in nature, it has
evidence, the claims are sound, it does not attack the scientific method,
it is not a hit piece, it does not lack journalistic integrity.

It was meant to provide a basic overview of where we currently stand in
relation to cold fusion for those who are not familiar with the topic, and
it does that. The article clearly states that countries and various
organizations are currently researching this, but that the results have not
shown anything that is, to date, viable.

To show an alternative view, it also links to an article that claims that
valid research on cold fusion is not being published because journals fear
being made a mockery for publishing any such research.

Thanks for the concern

From Quarks to Quasars

Managing Editors: Jaime Trosper and Jolene Creighton
Make sure to visit our website http://www.fromquarkstoquasars.com/ for
the latest in science news and research.

On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 9:01 PM, Chuck Sites 
wordpr...@fromquarkstoquasars.com wrote:

 Name: Chuck Sites
 Email: cbsit...@gmail.com
 Comment: Folks, your article was passed to me in a discussion group.  I
 read what you had to say regarding the physics of Cold Fusion, and in the
 name of science,  I wish you would retract the article.  It's basically a
 hit piece without a fact to point to.  It implies that the work being done
 in the field is fraudulent or the science is misguided.  Neither is the
 case.  Cold Fusion to date is a work in process.   It's storied history
 shows the amazing processes of man's ability to scientifically investigate
 a concept and pursue it's many directions of investigation.  The work of
 Andrie Rossi  is just one direction being pursued.

 The idea that a proton fuses with a nickel nucleus to make a copper
 nucleus, is just an idea to explain experimental anomalies in the Rossi
 type experiments.  There have been several other ideas to explain the
 phenomena that nuclear levels of excess heat are seen in hydrated metals
 consistently.   Rossi is just one experimental method being used to
 understand the limits of nature in process of fusion.  Many others have
 been pursued since Dr's Pons and Fleishman proposed cold fusion of
 deuterium in electrolytic cells of palladium.

 You should withdraw your article on cold fusion due to its unscientific
 nature, it's lack of evidence for it's claims, it's attack on the
 scientific method, for being a hit piece, for lack of journalistic
 integrity, etc.

 If  you want to make any serious claim with validity, this article should
 be labeled Opinion Piece.

 Time: August 19, 2015 at 21:01
 IP Address: 64.253.110.231
 Contact Form URL: http://www.fromquarkstoquasars.com/contact-us/
 Sent by an unverified visitor to your site.

--
From: *CB Sites* cbsit...@gmail.com
Date: Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 5:41 PM
To: cont...@fromquarkstoquasars.com

Thank you for taking the time to reply to my criticism of your article.
Let me just say that I think you are painting the field with a very broad
brush, and while there is some room for some cynicism for certain players
in the field, there are other scientists in this field that are very well
respected and established.   Cold fusion can even claim a nobel prize
winning physicist in it ranks with the late Julian Swigner.  Hardly a
charlatan.   In fact the list of very notable scientists involved in cold
fusion is surprising.   Cold fusion is a real phenomena and is proven in
muon catalyzed cold fusion.  That is a true nuclear phenomena.   In the
case of hydrated(deuterated) metals the nuclear signatures are not seen but
a heat signature that are commensurate with nuclear origins is seen (dating
all the way back to Dr. Pons and Dr. Flieshman).   The lack of a nuclear
signal does not negate the heat signatures found in some of these published
experiments.  See http://lenr-canr.org

Basically there are a group of science writers who have very closed minds
on issues they know little about.  Your article appears to be one such
piece of misdirected writing.  It qualifies as pathological skepticism.
Maybe if you actually interviewed scientist working in the field, you might
actually be enlightened by the mysteries Nature can sometime present us.

Best regards,
Chuck

--
From: *From Quarks To Quasars* cont...@fromquarkstoquasars.com
Date: Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 9:58 PM
To: Chuck Sites cbsit...@gmail.com

Maybe part of the problem with the lack of dialog is that people people are
presumptiously insulting, what with calling others close-minded and saying
they know little on the subject.

Thanks for the message.

--
From: *CB Sites* cbsit...@gmail.com
Date: Fri, Aug 21, 2015 at 10:04 PM
To: From Quarks

Re: [Vo]:NEDO RFP for cold fusion projects

2015-08-03 Thread CB Sites

Hii All.  Based on pdf and from that question Jed translated, (ie the
translation sighted by Jed), it's no worst than an NSF proposal, or NIH
proposal.   The grant writing processes make you jump through hoops, and
from that one translation, it doesn't sound out of line with a grant
application.  It could be stacked deck against CF, but then again, maybe
not. Grant writing is so tricky to do but so rewarding if you get one.
Also, just the process of writing the grant can make the project focus on
the science and theory behind the science that it clarifies the experiments
and the purpose of the funding.

So this NEDO RFP may not be a bad thing at all.


On Thu, Jul 30, 2015 at 4:50 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:

 I think Mizuno meant that is no one left in Japan who is capable of
 applying for this grant, or interested in applying for it.

 The document (http://www.nedo.go.jp/content/100754489.pdf) is entirely in
 Japanese, but if you look at the pages below 15, you will see the
 application form. You will recognize the bureaucratic format and get a
 sense of what the government demands. Name of institution, name of
 researcher, RD area, theme, schedule, etc., etc.

 Here is item 2.3 run through Google translate and adjusted by me:

 Implementation Structure


 * For implementation system when we contract for this research and
 development project, please provide the implementation system diagrams so
 that the role of each institution is shown. Please include any
 subcontractors, when there is a joint implementation plan.


 Blah, blah . . . A retired professor trying to submit something like this
 would be rejected out of hand.

 I can't blame NEDO. This is tax money. The government must have
 accountability. But it just isn't going to happen with these kinds of rules.

 - Jed

Re: [Vo]:WIRED: Paradoxical Crystal Baffles Physicists

2015-07-14 Thread CB Sites

Samarium hexaboride (SmB6) is certainly one of the weirdest materials.
It's so weird, that I have it written on my office door.

On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 6:54 PM, Jack Cole jcol...@gmail.com wrote:

 Check out this great article I read on WIRED:

 Paradoxical Crystal Baffles Physicists

 http://www.wired.com/2015/07/paradoxical-crystal-baffles-physicists/

Re: [Vo]:LENR-forum: Claytor generates increased tritium with Brillouin technique

2015-07-09 Thread CB Sites

Thanks for the video presentation Jed and Tom.  It was very enlightening.
I think Claytor demonstrates with out a doubt that there is a nuclear
interaction enhancement that occurs in hydrated/deuterated solid state that
are active.  Active in that D is actively moving in and out of the metal.
So, a high voltage AC (or shaped current)  could have an effect.

I'm still curious.  What is the tritium concentration in the Jovian
atmosphere and is it a a level you would not expect?



On Thu, Jul 9, 2015 at 9:56 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote:

 *From:* Jed Rothwell



 Ø  In this field, researchers often appropriate other people's work as
 proof of their own claims. Mills does that a lot. The people he cites often
 disagree. In some cases they have no idea he is citing them. I am not
 saying that is unethical. It is perfectly okay; just as it is okay to cite
 the work of a researcher who died long ago.



 And conversely, sometimes an experimenter does not want to acknowledge
 other work partially confirming his own results but in a way that his IP
 does not anticipate. To wit: Randell Mills almost certainly has been seeing
 tritium in the water arc discharge of the Sun Cell. Given Claytor’s
 results, how could he not see T under such similar circumstances??

 My memory is hazy on this, and it is seldom mentioned, but back in the
 early 1990s Randell Mills actually reported finding tritium in an article
 he wrote for Fusion Technology Magazine, and then went quiet on the subject
 (probably following the advice of his patent attorney). The point being
 this: 25 years ago, Mills knew that tritium would be produced from the
 nickel hydrogen reaction when electric arcs are present, but he has avoided
 it like the plague since then – since his patent applications and theory
 have value only if they aren’t nuclear.

 But the weirdest thing of all is that tritium should be seen ONLY in
 deuterium reactions… yet it is seen with pure hydrogen, even for Claytor.
 And the larger irony is that this result probably confirms that even the
 cold fusion version of this reaction is based on fractional deuterium
 (since neutrons are not witnessed)… and all done in a way that would
 potentially void Mills’ IP, since what we have is the real fusion of a
 fractional species…



 … which is to say that the correct theory was never “either-or” but “both
 together”.



 Jones

Re: [Vo]:LENR-forum: Claytor generates increased tritium with Brillouin technique

2015-07-08 Thread CB Sites

Beautiful work. I've always admired Claytor's work and I think it easily
demonstrates to the lay physicist that there are low level physical
conditions were fusion is demonstrable. Think asteroid or comet hitting
Jupiter, it could be causing a fusion trail as it sinks into the charged
high pressured atmosphere. Metallic meteors might give some tritium
signatures when they fall into the jovian atmosphere.

On Wed, Jul 8, 2015 at 9:51 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:

See:

http://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/index.php/Thread/1814-New-Brillouin-Energy-USPTO-patent-application/?postID=6013#post6013

Brillouin Energy has just announced in the forum that Tom Claytor of Los
Alamos National Labs did his own first principles test of the hypothesis
[...and...] Was able to reliably generate tritium 12 out of 12 times using
this method[...]!

*TRITIUM PRODUCTION FROM A LOW VOLTAGE DEUTERIUM DISCHARGE ON PALLADIUM
AND OTHER METALS *
*T. N. Claytor, D. D. Jackson and D. G. Tuggle Los Alamos National
Laboratory Los Alamos, NM 87545 *

ABSTRACT Over the past year we have been able to demonstrate that a plasma
loading method produces an exciting and unexpected amount of tritium from
small palladium wires. In contrast to electrochemical hydrogen or deuterium
loading of palladium, this method yields a reproducible tritium generation
rate when various electrical and physical conditions are met. Small
diameter wires (100 - 250 microns) have been used with gas pressures above
200 torr at voltages and currents of about 2000 V at 3-5 A. By carefully
controlling the sputtering rate of the wire, runs have been extended to
hundreds of hours allowing a significant amount ( 10’s nCi) of tritium to
accumulate. We will show tritium generation rates for deuterium-palladium
foreground runs that are up to 25 times larger than hydrogen-palladium
control experiments using materials from the same batch. We will illustrate
the difference between batches of annealed palladium and as received
palladium from several batches as well as the effect of other metals (Pt,
Ni, Nb, Zr, V, W, Hf) to demonstrate that the tritium generation rate can
vary greatly from batch to batch.

Re: [Vo]:Nitinol heat engine

2015-03-13 Thread CB Sites

Axil, unless there is some limit on loading your talking about, both Nickel
and titanium will load hydrogen/deuterium into their lattice. Titanium
was what Steve Jones first used in his first CF experiments because it
would load more deuterium than palladium greater than one I believe. .
Nickel doesn't load deuterium at all though, but would load hydrogen up to
0.8 H/Ni. Correct me if I'm wrong. Anyway nitinol does load hydrogen just
a little too well. What ever causes nitinol's shape metal properties
disappears has hydrogen concentrates in the lattice.

On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 10:35 PM, CB Sites cbsit...@gmail.com wrote:

What's the old saying; great minds think alike. I loved the video. You
could see pulses of bubbles being ejected from the nitinol as it
contracted. In my rig, I had the nitinol vertical and when it would
contract it would pull the lever arm of a weighted fulcrum up, I was later
going to use to try to calculate the force. I burned through just about
every filament I had. It was a good lesson in hydrogen embrittlement.
It's still not a bad idea, but we just need a material that doesn't get
brittle after hydrogen or deuterium loading. I'm clueless as to what that
would be.

On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 10:12 PM, Jack Cole jcol...@gmail.com wrote:

CB Sites,

Yes, nitinol does not hold up well to hydrogen loading. I did several
electrolysis experiments with it in 2012/2013 with H. Thicker wire held up
better.

You can see a video of one of the experiments here:

http://www.lenr-coldfusion.com/2013/01/23/automated-android-electrolysis-system-nitinol-demonstration/

I was trying to do the same thing (load hydrogen and induce contraction).

On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 8:02 PM, CB Sites cbsit...@gmail.com wrote:

Interesting video and reference Jack. I did one LENR experiment with
Nitjnol that may be worth repeating. My system didn't work out to well but
I only tried once. The idea was to use electrolysis to load the Nitenol
wth D+ and then heat the nitinol to contract forcing the lattice deuterium
to fuse. It looks like it gets brittle but I was using a very very small
sample. I wonder if it would work with a larger sample, or perhaps another
type of shape memory metal.

On Thu, Mar 12, 2015 at 2:20 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

Another way that shape memory materials might be used in a LENR reactor
is to form Micro particles out of high temperature shape memory material
such as Ti–50(Pt,Ir) or Nitinol (50Ni 50Ti).

At reactor temperatures lower than the operating temperature setpoint,
the shape memory micro particle would be shape set to be covered with LENR
activating nanostructure like tubercles. But when the temperature increased
beyond that setpoint temperature, the topology of the micro-particle would
change so that the tubercles would recede and then disappear.

As the LENR reaction lost strength as a reaction to the removal via
shape memory adjustment of the tubercle structures from the surface of the
micro-particles, the operating temperature of the reactor would naturally
drop below the operational temperature set-point, the tubercles would
reappear once again as the shape memory surface of the micro-particles
would recover its original shape.

In response to the lower temperature and the resultant reappearance of
the tubercle surface, the Ni/H LENR reactor would once again increase in
temperature due to reappearance of the tubercles on the surface of the
micro-particles.

In this simple an uncomlicated way under analog control, the Ni/H
reactor would automatically maintain in a failsafe and totally reliable
manor a constant thermostatically controlled operating temperature.

Re: [Vo]:Nitinol heat engine

2015-03-13 Thread CB Sites

On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 10:12 PM, Jack Cole jcol...@gmail.com wrote:

CB Sites,

Yes, nitinol does not hold up well to hydrogen loading. I did several
electrolysis experiments with it in 2012/2013 with H. Thicker wire held up
better.

You can see a video of one of the experiments here:

http://www.lenr-coldfusion.com/2013/01/23/automated-android-electrolysis-system-nitinol-demonstration/

I was trying to do the same thing (load hydrogen and induce contraction).

On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 8:02 PM, CB Sites cbsit...@gmail.com wrote:

On Thu, Mar 12, 2015 at 2:20 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

Another way that shape memory materials might be used in a LENR reactor
is to form Micro particles out of high temperature shape memory material
such as Ti–50(Pt,Ir) or Nitinol (50Ni 50Ti).

Re: [Vo]:Nitinol heat engine

2015-03-13 Thread CB Sites

Interesting video and reference Jack.  I did one LENR experiment with
Nitjnol that may be worth repeating.  My system didn't work out to well but
I only tried once.  The idea was to use electrolysis to load the Nitenol
wth D+ and then heat the nitinol to contract forcing the lattice deuterium
to fuse.  It looks like it gets brittle but I was using a very very small
sample.  I wonder if it would work with a larger sample, or perhaps another
type of shape memory metal.


On Thu, Mar 12, 2015 at 2:20 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

 Another way that shape memory materials might be used in a LENR reactor is
 to form Micro particles out of high temperature shape memory material such
 as Ti–50(Pt,Ir) or Nitinol (50Ni 50Ti).

 At reactor temperatures lower than the operating temperature setpoint, the
 shape memory micro particle would be shape set to be covered with LENR
 activating nanostructure like tubercles. But when the temperature increased
 beyond that setpoint temperature, the topology of the micro-particle would
 change so that the tubercles would recede and then disappear.

 As the LENR reaction lost strength as a reaction to the removal via shape
 memory adjustment of the tubercle structures from the surface of  the
 micro-particles, the operating temperature of the reactor would naturally
 drop below the operational temperature set-point, the tubercles would
 reappear once again as the shape memory surface of the micro-particles
 would recover its original shape.

 In response to the lower temperature and the resultant reappearance of the
 tubercle surface, the Ni/H LENR reactor would once again increase in
 temperature due to reappearance of the tubercles on the surface of the
 micro-particles.

 In this simple an uncomlicated way under analog control, the Ni/H reactor
 would automatically maintain in a failsafe and totally reliable manor a
 constant thermostatically controlled operating temperature.

Re: [Vo]:SUNDAY LENR COCKTAIL

2015-02-15 Thread CB Sites

I like your idea regarding the using tungsten foam as a heat pipe in the
Dog Bone experiment.   Very interesting proposal.  We just need to come up
with a well thought out design that can move the heat well.   Good work.

On Sun, Feb 15, 2015 at 12:43 PM, Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com wrote:

 Dear Friends,

 I hope many good things have happened today- as replications, just we
 don't know.
 Anyway, see please:
 http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2015/02/sunday-lenr-cocktail.html:

 Wish you a fine wekend-end!
 Peter

 --
 Dr. Peter Gluck
 Cluj, Romania
 http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com

Re: [Vo]:No Big Bang? Quantum equation predicts universe has no beginning

2015-02-12 Thread CB Sites

On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 1:00 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:



 On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 12:00 PM, CB Sites cbsit...@gmail.com wrote:

 .

 In a related article, the same group shows that gravitons can form a
 Bose-Einstein condensate at  at temperatures that were present in the
 universe's epochs.  That results in what appears to be the Big Bang from
 our vantage point.  That is when we look back in time to the 2.2 degree
 kelvin cosmological background maybe what we are looking at are the vast
 reaches of a BEC of gravitons.


 I say the BEC was not one containing Gravitons but instead Polaritons.
 During the time of radiation when light and matter combined into high
 energy polaritons that then created a Bosenova as seen in the DGT
 experiments. This is where inflation came from. No gravidity waves will be
 detected now because early expansion of the universe was cause by quantum
 mechanics and not gravity.

 This is the LENR theory of creation.




Would not that be the most interesting and profound model of cosmology, if
the Big Bang was in actuality the collapse of a massive N=100E100 BEC wave
function or Bosenove and all of the stuff the streamed out of the thing
where the localizations of collapsing waves for N100E100 units.   That
sort of makes the Idea of a Multi-verse just seem ordinary.

Re: [Vo]:No Big Bang? Quantum equation predicts universe has no beginning

2015-02-12 Thread CB Sites

Actually the new theory does explain the acceleration we are seeing.   What
these people have done is to apply a correction to the way one measure the
shortest distance between to points on a curve.   They quantum trajectories
(first investigate by David Bohm) instead of classical geodesics.  They
apply the Bohmian trajectories to the Raychaudhuri equation and then
derived quantum-corrected Friedmann equations, which describe the
expansion and evolution of universe.   The end result is that it removes
the singularity that we call the Big Bang!   In a way, it creates a
cosmological constant that eliminates the need dark energy and explains the
accelerating Universe we see.   With the removal of the Big Bang, the
Universe never had a beginning, it just appeared.

In a related article, the same group shows that gravitons can form a
Bose-Einstein condensate at  at temperatures that were present in the
universe's epochs.  That results in what appears to be the Big Bang from
our vantage point.  That is when we look back in time to the 2.2 degree
kelvin cosmological background maybe what we are looking at are the vast
reaches of a BEC of gravitons.

The problem with cosmology is just when you think you understand, someone
comes along with a new idea showing that you don't understand anything.

Cheers.

Re: [Vo]:Ceramic-to-metal hermetic bonding

2015-01-03 Thread CB Sites

I agree with you Bob.  Getting a good seal will be the challenge of this
experiment.   I've seen a few electron micrographs of hydrogen is Si and
other metals and it is amazing how deep H will migrate into a lattice.
Jones Benne points to the S-bond.com.   It will take something more than
that to seal this structure at the high temps, high pressure and
embrittlement from hydrogen gas in this experiment.Knowing the pressure
and core temp is a noble cause, but until replication is done, do we know
enough about the phenomena to pursue those experiments?


On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 6:40 PM, Bob Cook frobertc...@hotmail.com wrote:

  Jones--

 Unless the thermal expansion of the alumina body is matched to the
 expansion of the Stainless Steel sleeve, it will be very hard to maintain a
 seal.  The thermal stresses will become very high at the interface of the
 two materials. I think that the pressure changes seen in the recent MFMP
 test were due to thermal expansion acoustic emissions upon each increase in
 temperature.  This emission caused the pressure sensor to spike.   A sonic
 acoustic emission monitor would be valuable to deduce where the strain is
 and its intensity as a function of heating, if good sealing of the
 connection is necessary.  I am not sure the objectives of the test required
 such sealing and pressure containment.

 (Acoustic emission monitoring is an old technique to look for micro
 cracking in fission reactor equipment that happens during thermal
 transients.  Its quite sensitive and has/had been resisted by reactor
 vessel manufacturers, because it was so good for identifying defects in
 their forgings that other wise might not be discovered.)

 Bob

 - Original Message -
 *From:* Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net
 *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com
 *Sent:* Saturday, January 03, 2015 1:49 PM
 *Subject:* [Vo]:Ceramic-to-metal hermetic bonding

  It is possible to bond alumina, such as a modified dogbone reactor
 directly to stainless tubing, using the proprietary S-bond alloy :



 http://www.s-bond.com/blog/2011/04/04/ceramic-metal-bonding-part-one/



 The advantage would be allowing a permanent fill port for hydrogen, along
 with a pressure gauge, and other feed-thru accommodations which are more
 easily ported into metal then into ceramic.



 The design problem would be in keeping this metal part of the reactor
 cooler than the rest of the reactor – and the simple solution for that is
 to add a long ceramic extension tube to the dogbone, which extension is not
 powered and it can be as long as the reactor itself with a decreasing
 temperature gradient, then to add the stainless plumbing to the far end of
 the ceramic extension tube using S-bond. This keeps the heated segment
 spatially removed from the stainless. There would be a hot-end and a
 cold-end, and the entire unit would be much longer.



 For any dogbone device to move towards commercialization, far more control
 must be implemented, including fuel availability and pressure – and this
 means adding hydrogen from a tank at a controlled pressure. A ceramic to
 metal bond is one way to do that.



 I am assuming that hydrogen is the only consumable, at least until testing
 from Parkhomov shows otherwise.

Re: [Vo]:Ceramic-to-metal hermetic bonding

2015-01-03 Thread CB Sites

You know Axil, maybe they are based on the internal pressure estimates I've
read here.  When the MFMP finally had the pressure transducer stabilized
they had 100psi which decreased linearly to 0 after power off.   A redo of
that experiment would be worth doing just to get the kinks out of the
pressure gauge.  Then you might see the disassociation of LiAlH4 to Li and
H in the pressure change.  As another vortexian mentioned, I don't think
that has ever been published.  So knowing PV=nRT the value 'n' can be
deduced or the expected value of P can be deduced with temp as some have
already done.   Given a temperature goal, and perhaps knowing the strength
of the contain these can be designed into the experiment.  So instead of
worrying about seals, just design a tube that can contain hydrogen gas at
1400C and be loaded with fuel under a vacuum to maintain purity of the
reactants.


On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 11:29 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

 I think that MFMP is concerned about melting or exploding the core.

 On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 11:07 PM, CB Sites cbsit...@gmail.com wrote:

 I agree with you Bob.  Getting a good seal will be the challenge of this
 experiment.   I've seen a few electron micrographs of hydrogen is Si and
 other metals and it is amazing how deep H will migrate into a lattice.
 Jones Benne points to the S-bond.com.   It will take something more than
 that to seal this structure at the high temps, high pressure and
 embrittlement from hydrogen gas in this experiment.Knowing the pressure
 and core temp is a noble cause, but until replication is done, do we know
 enough about the phenomena to pursue those experiments?


 On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 6:40 PM, Bob Cook frobertc...@hotmail.com wrote:

  Jones--

 Unless the thermal expansion of the alumina body is matched to the
 expansion of the Stainless Steel sleeve, it will be very hard to maintain a
 seal.  The thermal stresses will become very high at the interface of the
 two materials. I think that the pressure changes seen in the recent MFMP
 test were due to thermal expansion acoustic emissions upon each increase in
 temperature.  This emission caused the pressure sensor to spike.   A sonic
 acoustic emission monitor would be valuable to deduce where the strain is
 and its intensity as a function of heating, if good sealing of the
 connection is necessary.  I am not sure the objectives of the test required
 such sealing and pressure containment.

 (Acoustic emission monitoring is an old technique to look for micro
 cracking in fission reactor equipment that happens during thermal
 transients.  Its quite sensitive and has/had been resisted by reactor
 vessel manufacturers, because it was so good for identifying defects in
 their forgings that other wise might not be discovered.)

 Bob

 - Original Message -
 *From:* Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net
 *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com
 *Sent:* Saturday, January 03, 2015 1:49 PM
 *Subject:* [Vo]:Ceramic-to-metal hermetic bonding

  It is possible to bond alumina, such as a modified dogbone reactor
 directly to stainless tubing, using the proprietary S-bond alloy :



 http://www.s-bond.com/blog/2011/04/04/ceramic-metal-bonding-part-one/



 The advantage would be allowing a permanent fill port for hydrogen,
 along with a pressure gauge, and other feed-thru accommodations which are
 more easily ported into metal then into ceramic.



 The design problem would be in keeping this metal part of the reactor
 cooler than the rest of the reactor – and the simple solution for that is
 to add a long ceramic extension tube to the dogbone, which extension is not
 powered and it can be as long as the reactor itself with a decreasing
 temperature gradient, then to add the stainless plumbing to the far end of
 the ceramic extension tube using S-bond. This keeps the heated segment
 spatially removed from the stainless. There would be a hot-end and a
 cold-end, and the entire unit would be much longer.



 For any dogbone device to move towards commercialization, far more
 control must be implemented, including fuel availability and pressure – and
 this means adding hydrogen from a tank at a controlled pressure. A ceramic
 to metal bond is one way to do that.



 I am assuming that hydrogen is the only consumable, at least until
 testing from Parkhomov shows otherwise.

Re: [Vo]:live - grr... dogbone

2015-01-02 Thread CB Sites

Well that was another fun dog bone experiment to watch.  After all the
discussion on a leaking inner chamber, someone wisely decided to abandon
the alumina cylinder for stainless steal and add a pressure sensor to it!
Unfortunately it took way to get the noise out of the pressure readings, so
it wasn't much help in seeing the decomposition of LiAlH4 or seeing when
the leak occurred.  After the transducer was fixed, you could see the
pressure drop linearly from 100psi to about 18psi indicating a leak.   I
think that experiment is worth another try.  The only suggestions to add
would be to find an isolated ground for the pressure transducer and second,
verify with Omega that that pressure transducer can be used to measure
hydrogen gas pressure.

On Fri, Jan 2, 2015 at 8:47 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

 Lithium hydride does not decompose at 900C when the pressure is high. The
 pressure that is being read in this system must be a vapor state of LiH. It
 seems to me that pure dissociated hydrogen will be hard to come by in such
 a high pressure system.

 On Fri, Jan 2, 2015 at 8:34 PM, Bob Cook frobertc...@hotmail.com wrote:

  I think it would be interesting to test a similar pressure transducer
 to the one that they are using to understand how it operates under a
 varying magnetic or electric fields.  It may be that local conditions are
 affecting the transducer and are indicative of unexpected electric or
 magnetic conditions in the reactor.  They may be caused by LENR or SPP
 formation or something unexpected.


 Bob

 - Original Message -
 *From:* Bob Cook frobertc...@hotmail.com
 *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com
 *Sent:* Friday, January 02, 2015 5:09 PM
 *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:live - grr... dogbone

 I am glad to see that with 30% pressure swings indicated, the operator
 decided to at least wear a face mask.  I think I heard that the tube was
 good for 1000 psi and they were getting indications of over 600 psi with
 large swings.  It appeared they did not believe their pressure sensor.  I
 think they should have a good bullet proof shield  around the dog bone.

 I would worry about the integrity of an alumina pressure vessel.  Is such
 material commonly used for pressure containing vessels at high temperatures
 and pressures?

 It seems they disconnected the pressure sensor at about 2 hrs. and 40
 min. into the test, or at least discontinued the video of the signal.  I
 hope they keep the pressure data that since it may be real.  However, it
 would appear that it was correlated with heater power input.

 Bob

 - Original Message -
 *From:* Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com
 *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com
 *Sent:* Friday, January 02, 2015 4:52 PM
 *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:live - grr... dogbone

 Ya' gotta love the 21st century.

 This seems kind of pointless. Why not read the data a week later? Still,
 it is fun!

 The technical chatter makes it sound like NASA. Impressive!

 I wish Arthur Clarke had lived to see this.

 - Jed

Re: [Vo]:Re: The MFMP replication effort live on youtube.

2015-01-01 Thread CB Sites

Just doing a search, here is an article discussing hydrogen permeation of
Alumina at high temperatures.
http://www.academia.edu/7323157/GAS_PERMEATION_PROPERTIES_OF_HYDROGEN_PERMEABLE_MACROPOROUS_ALUMINA_CERAMIC_MEMBRANES_AT_HIGH_TEMPERATURE

Of course this is about porous alumina membranes to purify hydrogen, but
the effects of high temperature may apply to alumina in general porous or
non-porous.

On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 5:45 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote:

-- Forwarded message --
From: Randy Mills rmi...@blacklightpower.com [SocietyforClassicalPhysics]
societyforclassicalphys...@yahoogroups.com
Date: Mon, Dec 29, 2014 at 7:51 AM
Subject: Re: [SocietyforClassicalPhysics] a mixture of nickel and lithium
aluminum hydride
To: societyforclassicalphys...@yahoogroups.com
societyforclassicalphys...@yahoogroups.com

...I think that it is a mistake to use a hydrogen porous vessel for a
hydrino reaction.

On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 4:48 AM, pjvannoor...@caiway.nl wrote:

Probably at that temperature the hydrogen will leak very fast through
the cell even if it is sealed properly

Peter v Noorden

*From:* Bob Higgins rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com
*Sent:* Wednesday, December 31, 2014 5:36 AM
*To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com
*Subject:* Re: [Vo]:The MFMP replication effort live on youtube.

Based on analysis of Lugano and Parkhomov work, excess heat begins at
about 950C. The MFMP dogbone core was measured to be over 1200C and no
excess heat was found. The likely suspect is that the glue used to seal
the reactor tube failed, allowing a leak of the H2 when the LiAlH4
decomposed. The experiment was shut down because going higher in
temperature risked burnout of the dogbone heater coil and the excess heat
should already have been seen at a lower temperature than the 1200C core
temperature that was achieved.

Ryan Hunt is going to try again. We will try to contact Parkhomov to ask
what cement he used to seal his reactor. We are also looking at ways to
test the seals that we make.

Bob Higgins

On Tue, Dec 30, 2014 at 8:35 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com
wrote:

CB Sites cbsit...@gmail.com wrote:

Wow, Replication fails. They had the dog bone so hot the steel
stand holding it was white hot. But power in was equal to power out. No
radiation.

I have a hunch that was too hot. As the proverbial shaggy dog was too
shaggy, since we are using dog-related images here.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:The MFMP replication effort live on youtube.

2014-12-31 Thread CB Sites

I think it's a valid point to check the inner alumina tube for leaks, which
can probably be done by careful postmortem.  Also I wonder if the alumina
tube holding the Ni - LiAlH4 was sealed in a vacum.  That would be the only
other concern is if it was filled under a vacum, or pumped down is if the
seal broke somehow (thermal expansion?) of the fuel cylinder and seal.

   As an alternative to the dog bone design and to rapidly test fuel
mixture, I wonder how the alumina tube would do using microwave as the
external heat source?   That may help in LiAlH4  dehydrogenation process
and Ni-H diffusion and would help make experimenting with fuel mix a little
easier.


On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 6:12 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote:

 Eric, the calibration apparently is accurate according to the text.  I
 would guess that the insulation surrounding the water jacket and the
 addition of extra insulation on the top surface ensures that most of the
 heat ends up within the water.  The calibration is key.

 Dave


 -Original Message-
 From: Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com
 To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
 Sent: Wed, Dec 31, 2014 6:01 pm
 Subject: Re: [Vo]:The MFMP replication effort live on youtube.

   On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 2:39 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com
 wrote:

  In either of these three cases I would expect the active device to get
 hotter than had it been subjected to open air cooling.  The trend is the
 same.


  The device may be hotter than it would be in the case of open-air
 cooling.  But since the water bath does not enclose the inner housing on
 all sides, I suspect there is a significant heat loss through the top of
 the inner and outer housing.  Although I don't think you were addressing
 this point, it seems to me that this would lead to an underestimation of
 the true energy output.

  http://i.imgur.com/MoEJGv3.png [1]

  Eric


  [1] Taken from
 http://www.e-catworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Lugano-Confirmed.pdf

Re: [Vo]:The MFMP replication effort live on youtube.

2014-12-30 Thread CB Sites

Wow,  Replication fails.   They had the dog bone so hot the steel stand
holding it was white hot.  But power in was equal to power out.   No
radiation.

On Tue, Dec 30, 2014 at 4:17 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVz-6XGBePM

Re: [Vo]:The MFMP replication effort live on youtube.

2014-12-30 Thread CB Sites

As best as I could tell, it looks like this was a dud.  Heat in = Heat
out.  It was frustrating to see.

On Tue, Dec 30, 2014 at 11:40 PM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com
wrote:

 I guess I missed some part them. But I never saw a so beautiful metal glow!




 --
 Daniel Rocha - RJ
 danieldi...@gmail.com

Re: [Vo]:OT: New Curcumin ( spice) US Patent- Anticancer

2014-11-04 Thread CB Sites

Curcumin is a concentrated extract of turmeric.  It's the molecule that
give turmeric it's yellow color.   Think yellow mustard.  The yellow is the
curcumin from the turmeric used to color the mustard.

I did some research into Curcumin when a relative was diagnosed with the
big C.  In a few studies, it has produced incredible results with liver
cancer where tumors the size of softballs have vanished over a period of 3
months with curcumin taken at an 8gm/day range.   I don't think the patent
applies to Curcumin itself, but to the method to get it to absorb in the
blood stream.  The biggest problem with curcumin is that it is hydrophobic,
and will not dissolve in water.   It needs some sort of assistance to
digest and it needs to break down in the small intestines where it can be
bio-absorbed and cross in the blood stream.   It should be taken with
black-pepper and some kind of oil base.  Black pepper helps in the
bio-absorption.I think blending 4gm in Vanilla-Ensure with a 1/4
teaspoon (A big pinch) black-pepper works well for a morning/evening dose
and the ensure has enough fats and oils to get it across the stomach
without being damaged by the stomach acids.  If you can warm the Ensure
concoction that will help coat the curcumin.
To avoid the black pepper many curcumin supplements add piperine (the
essence of black pepper).   CuraMed makes an liquid gel cap 750mg where the
curcumin is infused in a turmeric extract oil that is supposed to have the
best bio-absorption rates. I recommend it over all the others.  You still
need about 8 of these tablets a day for months to really do battle.   I'm
not an Doctor by the way but reading up on it sure was convincing.  I
encourage anyone interested to do the same.

Sadly, my relative didn't persist with regiment for more than two weeks and
has since passed on.





On Tue, Nov 4, 2014 at 2:22 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hoyt A. Stearns Jr. hoyt-stea...@cox.net wrote:

 FWIW:  Don't confuse Curcumin with Cumin . . .


 Those are the people who make Diesel engines, aren't they?

 - Jed

Re: [Vo]:The mechanism of LENR unmasked

2014-11-04 Thread CB Sites

Really interesting find Axil. I saw an electron-micrograph of some of
Rossi's Ni powder and basically it looks like very small spheres, not
completely uniform in diameter, but certainly with in a range. I can't
recall the scale unfortunately but someone here probably know it. Anyway,
the way voids are created is in the process of sphere packing.Any
nanoscale plasma might exist in these voids. Since the spheres are Ni,
you can expect a lot of hydrogen ions moving into and out of the surface of
the nickel spheres. That will create plasmons in the surface of the Ni
spheres, heating them and perhaps ionizing the Ni surface atoms. The free
electrons could screen the nanoscale plasma and allow the hydrogen ions to
quantum tunnel into each other or deep into the Ni atoms inner shells.

I'm going to do a little more digging, but there may be something to the
idea of nano-plasmas in a system like this.

On Tue, Nov 4, 2014 at 2:25 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

Some recent posts combined, extended, and revised

http://phys.org/news/2014-11-electromagnetic-fluctuation-plasmas-analogous-so-called.html

[Electromagnetic fluctuation forces across plasmas analogous to so-called
weak nuclear interaction forces

New theoretical results tie EMF to processes that effect the dynamics
that occur inside the nucleus as a expression of the weak force. This is
exciting stuff for the LENR theorist. Mesons control what goes on inside
the nucleus. Mesons are just a kind of plasmons that exist between two or
more solids at very close distances. One example where this condition
applies is the situation that exists in the very small plasmon filled
spaces between nanoparticles. This implies that mesons are condensing
virtual particles pairs that are equivalent to condensing virtual particle
plasmons or sheets of realized positions/electron pairs formed at high
energy caused by the Casimir force born in the small distances between
nanoparticles.
I guest at this all along. Its good that it has been discovered.

See:

Casimir forces in a Plasma: Possible Connections to Yukawa Potentials

http://arxiv.org/pdf/1409.1032v1.pdf

This paper violates all the current thinking connected with the
standard model of particle physics. In a nutshell, the paper says that
nanoplasmonics can cause nuclear effects as a result of meson
production.

This could well be a theoretical research topic related to cold fusion
funded by some interesting and mainstream organizations. If you notice
the acknowledgment section of the paper, you will see who funded this
research as follows:

MB and CP acknowledge support from the Research
Council of Norway (Contract No. 221469). MB also
thanks the Department of Energy and Process Engineering
(NTNU, Norway) for financial support. CP thanks
the Swedish Research Council (Contract No. C0485101)
for financial support. This work was supported by the
DFG (grant BU 1803/3-1). We thank Dr John Lekner for
pointing out the relevance for the analysis of the Poisson-
Jacobi formula (page 124, example 18 in Whittaker and
Watson)[41]

This paper proposes that nanoplasmonics can be used to manipulate and
control the weak force using the Casmir effect and through that weak
force, control the inner workings of the nucleus.

The major players in the science infrastructure of Norway and Sweden are
interested enough in this subject to pay good money to mainstream
scientists to buck the standard model of particle physics with this new
theory.

Could there be a connection between this paper and the recent Robert Godes
visit to Statoil in Norway?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B1R2STSIAAAdDVS.jpg

In this picture of the meeting between Robert Godes and Statoil in
Norway, it looks like Pekka Haavisto is sitting at the head of the table.
At present, Pekka Haavisto serves as chairman of the Green Parliamentary
Group in the Finnish Parliament. The gentleman on the left of Godes with
the red hair is most likely Robert W. George II CEO of Brillouin

Robert Godes posted these tweets after the meeting

[quote]
@Pawik it turns out oil companies have seen thermal excursions in their
hydrogenation beds. It is a problem for them but LENR is the cause.
11:30 AM - 3 Nov 2014
and
@Pawik all but the most pathological disbelievers change their tune after
talking with me. Had a great meeting at Statoil in Norway as well.
[End quote]

Why is Statoil interested in LENR? To understand this process engineering
problem, they may have developed a interest.

http://www.ogj.com/articles/print/volume-89/issue-24/in-this-issue/refining/rust-catalyzed-ethylene-hydrogenation-causes-temperature-runaway.html

RUST CATALYZED ETHYLENE HYDROGENATION CAUSES TEMPERATURE RUNAWAY

The petroleum industry has thermal runaway problems when micro particles
contaminate hydrogen processing equipment.

Ed Storms tells a story of how Rossi first got interested in LENR when he
saw a

Re: [Vo]:The Big Banks are Certainly Paying Attention to the E-Cat

2014-10-20 Thread CB Sites

That is an interesting point that I've not thought about, but Nickel does
express a degree of magnetic susceptibility that is unlike other metals.
So right there, Ni's spin influence is part of the mix. In a lattice
dislocation (like the NAE Dr. Storms argues for), the spin of the Ni atoms
in the NAE could be of huge consequence.   Suppose the effect is dependent
on the NAE concept, and a lattice defect that is conducive to spin aligning
an N body string of hydrogen.  It's an interesting problem.



On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 11:26 AM, Bob Cook frobertc...@hotmail.com wrote:

  Axil, Chuck, etal--

 I would add that the presence of a magnetic field reduces the  locations
 the PSI allows and increases the probability that any two particles will
 occupy the same location.  IMO this is a basis for controlling the rate of
 reactions in NAE.  I also consider it is improper not to consider the
 effects of spin coupling and spin mass changes in such systems.  I do not
 know how Kim etal handle this issue nor the effect of magnetic resonances
 associated with their BEC's in a NAE.

 I consider the same situation can occur with fewer particles in a face
 centered cubic lattice of Pd or Ni or any other such crystalline cell when
 packed with D or H.  This may be more likely near a surface or under high
 Zeta electric potentials in an electro-chemical cell.  The presence of Li
 near a surface and inside the lattice fcc cell may also occasion nuclear
 reactions in combination with H or D or both.  A small number of  Cooper
 Pairs of H (Bose particles) may act like Kim's BEC in a NAE.

 Again, keep in mind that the local magnetic field modifies the PSI, *including
 energy states associated with spin energy*, and causes degeneration of
 the allowable energy states and the allowable positions for particles it
 controls.  In a packed space the fewer the positions available the more
 likely any allowable position is occupied.  Therefore, particle
 interactions become more likely.

 Most simple treatments of the PSI's do not include the consideration of
 energy states associated with a system in a magnetic field (B field) within
 a solid state.  A quick review of the Wikipedia discussion of PSI wave
 functions seems to neglect the issue of an ambient magnetic field and its
 influence on the energy states of the Hamiltonian describing kinetic and
 potential energy of the system and as further described by the PSI.

 (It has always been my opinion that spin energy and angular momentum must
 impact the overall PSI of a QM coherent system and the transitions that
 allow mass energy to change to radiation and escape the system  or heat in
 the form of kinetic energy of the lattice.)

 Bob Cook

 - Original Message -
 *From:* CB Sites cbsit...@gmail.com
 *To:* vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
 *Sent:* Sunday, October 19, 2014 9:16 PM
 *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:The Big Banks are Certainly Paying Attention to the
 E-Cat

 Thanks for the reference Kevin.  I see you and Axil really got into this
 idea.  I read your-all's whole thread exchange and it's inspiring.   What I
 also should add is that Storm is inspiring as well.  I really asked him
 several times what he meant by NAE (the Nuclear Active Environment) and it
 was never clear to me what he meant until I saw a youtube video of him
 describing it at one of the CF conferences.   If I understand the jist of
 that, he is claiming that at dislocations, certain metal crystals, D or H
 atoms will fill the dislocation.  At the dislocations, there is enough
 electron screening that the particles in dislocation can interact strongly.


 Just to pitch it out there, Y.E. Kim and his students have already worked
 through his N-Body BECs (N100) and found some interesting outcomes.The
 reason BECs are so important is that is when the PSI of the wave function
 geometrically extended and |PSI^2| is the probability of finding a particle
 at a particular position.  When a superposition of PSI's occurs
 (overlapping waves), the overlap describes a probability that interaction
 can occur.  That interaction will probably be electromagnetic, but it can
 also be by strong interactions if E/M is screened.  In a BEC every particle
 overlaps with every-other particle, and geometrically the PSI's can be
 huge; mm in size.  The overlaps can be very large and the probabilities for
 interaction by strong force component of the wave function can be large
 too.  In my mind, if you have a BEC of D ions, you will have fusion.  The
 same concept could even apply to the core of the sun.

 NAE's are Nuclear Active Environments, or lattice dislocation
 (environments), that are Nuclear active.  It's a location that is conducive
 to an N-body nuclear interaction between fusing objects.  Dr. Storm
 suggests lattice dislocations along some crystal direction like a 010 or a
 001 ... could form the environment for an N-body interaction.  While Kim
 has theory of N-body, he doesn't have any theory on a geometrically

Re: [Vo]:The Big Banks are Certainly Paying Attention to the E-Cat

2014-10-19 Thread CB Sites

Thanks for the report Axil.   That is an impressive shift and certainly not
coincidental.  Gas is $2.90 at the pump.  Is this just a reaction to the
idea of cheap fusion energy?

I'm still reading Vortex-L although I don't have as much time to
participate as I would like.   I haven't abandoned the BEC ideas, and
always read yours with enthusiasm.  I've been thinking a lot about Storm's
ideas on the NEA stuff, and started thinking about new concept of 1D
strings of Boson, and other 1D string quantum chains and trying to derive
interaction probabilities.   I need more time to dedicate to the math, but
using Y. E. Kim and crew as a starting point, and the replacing X, with
X[chain], I'm hoping to see a Phi for S=0 on the X[chain].   Has anyone
looked at Storm's predictions about Rossi's experiment?

Have Fun,
Chuck




On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 2:19 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

 http://www.sifferkoll.se/sifferkoll/?p=394

 The Big Banks are Certainly Paying Attention to the E-Cat

 While looking in the logs after publishing the E-Cat report I found out
 that within minutes it was downloaded by an IP number owned by Blackrock.
 Within minutes after that oil futures started to fall and have stayed
 volatile since…

 [image: lugano]
 http://www.sifferkoll.se/sifferkoll/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/lugano.png

Re: [Vo]:The Big Banks are Certainly Paying Attention to the E-Cat

2014-10-19 Thread CB Sites

Thanks for the reference Kevin.  I see you and Axil really got into this
idea.  I read your-all's whole thread exchange and it's inspiring.   What I
also should add is that Storm is inspiring as well.  I really asked him
several times what he meant by NAE (the Nuclear Active Environment) and it
was never clear to me what he meant until I saw a youtube video of him
describing it at one of the CF conferences.   If I understand the jist of
that, he is claiming that at dislocations, certain metal crystals, D or H
atoms will fill the dislocation.  At the dislocations, there is enough
electron screening that the particles in dislocation can interact strongly.


Just to pitch it out there, Y.E. Kim and his students have already worked
through his N-Body BECs (N100) and found some interesting outcomes.The
reason BECs are so important is that is when the PSI of the wave function
geometrically extended and |PSI^2| is the probability of finding a particle
at a particular position.  When a superposition of PSI's occurs
(overlapping waves), the overlap describes a probability that interaction
can occur.  That interaction will probably be electromagnetic, but it can
also be by strong interactions if E/M is screened.  In a BEC every particle
overlaps with every-other particle, and geometrically the PSI's can be
huge; mm in size.  The overlaps can be very large and the probabilities for
interaction by strong force component of the wave function can be large
too.  In my mind, if you have a BEC of D ions, you will have fusion.  The
same concept could even apply to the core of the sun.

NAE's are Nuclear Active Environments, or lattice dislocation
(environments), that are Nuclear active.  It's a location that is conducive
to an N-body nuclear interaction between fusing objects.  Dr. Storm
suggests lattice dislocations along some crystal direction like a 010 or a
001 ... could form the environment for an N-body interaction.  While Kim
has theory of N-body, he doesn't have any theory on a geometrically
constrained BEC.   Say an N-body reaction on the 011 lattice defect for
example.  When a reaction occurs,  Do the lattice atoms on the end of the
BEC chain participate?

It's fascinating to speculate on this.






On Sun, Oct 19, 2014 at 10:13 PM, Kevin O'Malley kevmol...@gmail.com
wrote:

 started thinking about new concept of 1D strings of Boson
 ***Sounds like my V1DLLBEC theory.
 https://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg95060.html
 et al

 On Sun, Oct 19, 2014 at 6:36 PM, CB Sites cbsit...@gmail.com wrote:

 Thanks for the report Axil.   That is an impressive shift and certainly
 not coincidental.  Gas is $2.90 at the pump.  Is this just a reaction to
 the idea of cheap fusion energy?

 I'm still reading Vortex-L although I don't have as much time to
 participate as I would like.   I haven't abandoned the BEC ideas, and
 always read yours with enthusiasm.  I've been thinking a lot about Storm's
 ideas on the NEA stuff, and started thinking about new concept of 1D
 strings of Boson, and other 1D string quantum chains and trying to derive
 interaction probabilities.   I need more time to dedicate to the math, but
 using Y. E. Kim and crew as a starting point, and the replacing X, with
 X[chain], I'm hoping to see a Phi for S=0 on the X[chain].   Has anyone
 looked at Storm's predictions about Rossi's experiment?

 Have Fun,
 Chuck




 On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 2:19 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote:

 http://www.sifferkoll.se/sifferkoll/?p=394

 The Big Banks are Certainly Paying Attention to the E-Cat

 While looking in the logs after publishing the E-Cat report I found out
 that within minutes it was downloaded by an IP number owned by Blackrock.
 Within minutes after that oil futures started to fall and have stayed
 volatile since…

 [image: lugano]
 http://www.sifferkoll.se/sifferkoll/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/lugano.png

Re: [Vo]:To Arms

2014-10-17 Thread CB Sites

Thanks James.  Here is my comment in /.

http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=5842595op=Replythreshold=1commentsort=0mode=threadpid=48174219



On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 9:52 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote:

 Well it got modded up to the max of 5 for enough time -- then the opposing
 forces came in and knocked it down to 1.

 On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 5:46 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote:

 Mod this up:

 http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=5842595cid=48173021

 On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 5:37 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote:

 /. just posted a story debunking cold fusion

 Have at it, men and Ruby!


 http://science.slashdot.org/story/14/10/17/2231236/the-physics-of-why-cold-fusion-isnt-real

Re: [Vo]:Steve Koonin is the latest WSJ shill for the oil companies

2014-10-02 Thread CB Sites

That is too bad.  I've enjoyed Koonin's books on computational physics.
The one WSJ article of his I read, begins like this;  The idea that
Climate science is settled runs through today's popular and policy
discussions. Unfortunately, that claim is misguided. It has not only
distorted our public and policy debates on issues related to energy,
greenhouse-gas emissions and the environment. But it also has inhibited the
scientific and policy discussions that we need to have about our climate
future.
Which is the furthest from the truth on this issue.   First, the claims are
not misguided, there is no distortion of what is needed in public policy,
and there are certainly no lack of knowledge about the effects
that greenhouse-gas emission from fossil fuels on the environment.  We've
seen reports from around the world describing those effects.

It's a shame that someone with that brain power has to waste it being a
tool for the deniers and a stooge for the destruction of earth.


On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 4:30 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:

 See:


 http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2014/10/the_wall_street_journal_and_steve_koonin_the_new_face_of_climate_change.html

 Koonin was a prominent opponents of cold fusion in 1989.

 - Jed

Re: [Vo]: The Absurdity of Darwinian Evolution.

2014-08-29 Thread CB Sites

**
*Kevin O'Malley wrote:*

*Science today tells us that someone travelling the speed of light (the
twin paradox) for a year would return to his twin back on earth, and the
twin would have aged 100 years. Is God restricted to the speed of light? NO
WAY. He no doubt travels faster than that, and so for him to spend a day on
creation would look like billions of years to an observer on earth. All
verified science.*

*Think about it.*

Kevin.  Thank you for that. People forget how absurd the Universe is
without the need to references to religion.   Effects like special
relativity really gives one a profound concept of what it would be like
riding an electron.  Or a photon jumping from quantum state of an atom to
another.  It easy to explain spooky action at a distance, when relativistic
effects will slow time to zero for the photon leave and a close atom and
arriving at a distant one at the same time.  At the speed C, to the photon
reference frame, it's like the electron of distant atom is right there.
 From our vantage point it's like that distant atom is light years away.

Cheers.





On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 10:55 PM, Jojo Iznart jojoiznar...@gmail.com
wrote:

  The answer to this question is 100 million.


 It may come as a surprise to many but the Bible may have an answer to this
 question. I am answering this not to show how biblically knowledgeable I
 am, but to show the skeptic that the Bible has many many answers to many
 many difficult questions if one simply takes the time to study it and
 evaluate the evidence it presents with an open mind.


 To try to answer this question - the question of how many Angels can dance
 on the head of a pin?  I need to lay some groundwork.  But before I do
 that, let it be clear to everyone that Angles don't dance.  That carnal
 behavior is beneath them.  So, the proper question is - How many Angels can
 stand on the head of a pin.


 1.  First, let's understand that the Bible teaches that our 3.5
 dimensional world (3 space dimensions, plus 1/2 of time dimension - 1/2
 because we can only travel in that dimension 1 way - only towards the
 future, we can't move back in time.) - that our 3.5 dimensional world is
 but a part of a reality that is composed of maybe up to 10 dimensions.
 Paul talks of being taken to the third heaven - this is another place of
 existence inaccesible to us mortals.  Maimonides, an ancient Jewish
 Scholar, believed that we live in a 10-dimensional world only 4 of which
 was knowable.  John, when describing the New Jerusalem, talks of the
 streets of being made of Pure Gold like clear glass.   How can pure gold
 be like clear glass other than there is another dimension wherein this pure
 opaque gold exists wherein one can see thru it.  Jude, when describing
 angels talks of how fallen angels left their habitation, which imply that
 they have another type of habitation (Body).   Jesus in his ressurection
 body was able to pass thru doors and appear and disappear at will, and also
 float up to heaven at his ascension.  Jesus at the transfiguration was
 transformed to a bright and shining form of body.

 Even our latest science tells the same story.  There are many scholar who
 believe that our reality is but a projection - a hologram, a simulation of
 a larger multi-dimensional reality.  Doesn't Dawkins talk of a multiverse?
 He is reflecting the sentiment of many scholars, who may not necessarily,
 and in fact, are not Christians.  Doesn't our Latest String Theory talk of
 a 10-dimensional Universe?

 So, the point of my first point, is that there is reason to believe from
 the Bible as well as from Science that we live in a Universe which may be
 up to 10 dimensions.

 Thus, Angels are in fact multi-dimensional creatures.  They can come and
 go into our dimension, assume any shape they like in our dimension and can
 occupy the same space at the same time in our dimension.


 2.  Second, to begin to answer how many Angels can fit on the head of a
 pin, let's examine the broader question of how many Angels there are.
 Revelations 5.11 has this to say.  As far as I know, this is the only
 place in the Bible where the number of Angels is explicitly mentioned.  It
 says 10 thousand times 10 thousands and thousands of thousands.


 * Rev 5:11* And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round
 about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was
 ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;



 I don't know what thousands of thousands is, but I do know  that 10
 thousand times 10 thousand is 100 million.  Hence, the answer to the
 question is 100 million Angels can fit on the head of pin.  If you count
 fallen Angels in the mix, the number would be 150 million because 1/3 of
 the Angels followed Satan in the fall leaving behind 2/3 which is 100
 million.





 Jojo







 - Original Message -

 *From:* H Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com
 *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com
 *Sent:* Saturday, August 30,

Re: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:global warming?

2014-08-28 Thread CB Sites

This hasn't been occurring very long.  Otherwise we would have noticed.
 The methane measurements from satellite will be interesting to watch over
the next few years. Here is one report
http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/obop/mlo/programs/esrl/methane/img/img_global_methane.jpg




On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 10:29 AM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote:

 One might also question how long the bubbling has been occurring.
 Perhaps the earlier bubbling of a know very powerful warming gas has
 obscured our contribution.  This is just one of the many questions that
 appear to be left unanswered and not included in the models.   Once most of
 the variables are quantified and properly included in the models we will
 then have a reasonable model and hopefully its predictions become more
 accurate.   Even then there is no guarantee that the uncertainty due to
 random events does not overwhelm the predictions beyond a few years.

 Dave



  -Original Message-
 From: Roarty, Francis X francis.x.roa...@lmco.com
 To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
 Sent: Thu, Aug 28, 2014 7:47 am
 Subject: RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:global warming?

   Also makes me wonder what strange effects massive hydrocarbon loading
 could have on silicon grains as it bubbles up through the sea floor,
 perhaps the Bermuda Triangle is the result of hydrino bubbles :_)

 *From:* Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com janap...@gmail.com?]
 *Sent:* Thursday, August 28, 2014 1:13 AM
 *To:* vortex-l
 *Subject:* EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:global warming?

  http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-28898223

  'Widespread methane leakage' from ocean floor off US coast

  This could be bad news...



  On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 9:32 AM, Chris Zell chrisz...@wetmtv.com wrote:

 http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/08/140821-global-warming-hiatus-climate-change-ocean-science/


 So, the mainstream now says no global warming for 10 - 15 years?

Re: [Vo]:global warming?

Of course, referencing wattsupwiththat for anthropogenic global warming
facts is like learning about special relativity from a republican CEO.
More or less your going to get dis-information.

On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 9:55 AM, Chris Zell chrisz...@wetmtv.com wrote:

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/03/18/newsbytes-climate-scientists-turn-skeptical-as-climate-predictions-fail/

Climate changes all the time. Hence, denial of climate change is
nonsense.

Yes, graphs show an upward tilt in warming - however, the change is not
as catastrophic as many predicted.

Even without the above, the lack of predictions a few years into the
future ( as Jed reported) is a failure in itself - or should cause the
field to be questioned as to its practical utility.

I think the shoe should be on the other foot as to predictions. Let's see
what past climate predictions have proved most accurate over a reasonable
time scale that does not involve a huge percentage of a normal
lifespan. Referring to all the work and long term climate change
creates a strawman. As Keynes once said about economics, in the long
term, we are all dead.

--
*From:* Eric Walker [mailto:eric.wal...@gmail.com]
*Sent:* Tuesday, August 26, 2014 12:56 AM
*To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com

*Subject:* Re: [Vo]:global warming?

On Mon, Aug 25, 2014 at 8:23 AM, Chris Zell chrisz...@wetmtv.com
wrote:

This doesn't mean that they need to be able to forecast tomorrow's
lottery numbers ( in effect) but we should expect that they can create
predictive graphs that follow emerging reality with a reasonable fit - and
frankly, that's where the problem seems to be.

Given your acquaintance with the field and familiarity with its complete
failure to predict anything, I am confident that you and others will be
able to draw to our attention to a persistent pattern of failed predictions
that demonstrate, beyond a handful of high-profile news-makers, a chronic
record of a science-that-is-not-a-science. I'm sure you can help us to
better understand the poor state of the field by characterizing the error
of climate science with some specificity -- for example, no climate model
has had a record of predicting the three-year moving average temperature to
better than 60 percent (10 percent above random) when run over a period of
more than 10 years (this is an example that I pulled out of thin air). To
demonstrate the failure of a field, obviously we will not be able to do
very much with a handful of prominent failures. We must show that the all
of the work of the field, taken together, is as good as rolling dice for
helping us to understand long term climate change.

I would be very interested in some quantification of the failure of
climate science.

Eric

Re: [Vo]:global warming?

I was reading last week's Science magazine and they had an paper that talks
about the new finding that the Atlantic ocean was trapping much more heat
than expected.They conclude that the leveling out of temperature rise
is due to this.   It's a pretty compelling science finding.
What they found are that currents in the Atlantic are moving much faster
than normal and that was caused by a change in salinity from fresh water
melts.   The faster currents are pulling more of the hot surface waters
down to 1000m or more.   This gives the appearance of cooling global
temperatures and giving the stair step in land/atmosphere temperature rise.
  This current reverses every 30 years, so they expect the shelf to
continue for another 10 years after which the temperatures should rise very
quickly with a very sharp slope.   Even though it looks like we are on a
step that doesn't mean global average temperatures have stopped rising.
 It's just that they are not rising as quickly as theory predict.   Last
year was still the hottest ever recorded in the history of mankind.
http://www.climate.gov.   With the new information,  about the Atlantic
currents It shouldn't take the atmospheric modelers to long before the
models are corrected.

One concern that is related has to do with the methane clathrate found on
the Arctic sea floor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methane_clathrate

As the Arctic ocean warms and warm currents circulate that heat even more,
is that it could rapidly increase methane levels.   Already scientists have
seen more and more methane seepage bubbling up from the Arctic ocean
waters.Methane has 25x the heat trapping ability that CO2 has so a
little goes a long way.   There is a lot of methane trapped on the ocean
floor that only needs a 0.1C change to make it sublimate into methane gas.
 If enough happens, it could trigger a run-away feedback loop where
methane's contribution adds more to global temperature wise, which heats
the oceans more, which sublimates more methane clathrate.  At the same
time, evaporation of surface waters will increase adding more water vapor
(also a potent greenhouse gas)  to the atmosphere.

It's something to think about.






On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 2:57 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote:

 Axil, There is plenty of reason the believe that the earth is on an
 overall warming cycle.   We can be fairly confident that one day it will
 reverse and we will be facing a new ice age since this has happened over
 and over again according to the best historical measurements.  No doubt
 that polar ice contributes to the process along with countless other
 natural and man made phenomena.

 When the next ice age begins is clearly debatable and I hope that we have
 many years before that devastating event comes upon us.  So far I have not
 heard a great deal of noise from the global warming crowd suggesting that
 the current warming period will encourage the return of the cold that is so
 dangerous to our existence.   It is only a matter of time before this
 becomes a rallying cry of that group of alarmists.  They will get my
 attention at that point provided their models begin to demonstrate accurate
 predictions without needing serious corrections every few years.

 We should resist the urge to put our lives and economies into the hands of
 this group until and if their predictions can be shown to be trustworthy.
 It may well turn out that what they are attempting is intractable and not
 subject to accurate modeling.   What they contend to be caused by man might
 merely be a natural consequence of the earths response to solar and cosmic
 driving forces.  Sometimes it is very difficult to separate cause and
 effect.

 The development of LENR systems will come around soon and that will
 rapidly reduce the dependence upon fossil fuels and additional warming gas
 releases needed to supply our energy future demands.   Lets reserve our
 concerns about what may or may not happen in 100 years under the current
 conditions and realize that our species has been quite adaptable in the
 past and will find a solution to any problems that arise.   The scientific
 understanding that will develop during that period will appear as magic to
 us.

 Dave


  -Original Message-
 From: Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com
 To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
 Sent: Tue, Aug 26, 2014 2:13 pm
 Subject: Re: [Vo]:global warming?

  Ice is melting and feeding the deep ocean currents that rise every few
 decades to cool off the coasts.

  Sea level rise is the simple indicator that marks the point of disaster.
 Coastal cities will flood as the ice melts. When all the ice is gone, that
 is when the climate is in big trouble. The temperature of the oceans
 controls the temperature of the atmosphere. The melting of the ice is the
 factor that introduces the oscillations in the climate.

  If you put a glass of ice in an oven, the water in the glass will stay
 at freezing until the ice melts. When all the

Re: [Vo]:Evolutionists As Idiots

 Jojo says Failure to mate and reproduce demonstrates a genetic problem,
not demonstrate a Macro-Evolution event.
Oh is that why your not getting any?  Hahaha.




On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 8:44 PM, Jojo Iznart jojoiznar...@gmail.com wrote:

  We used to think that mating and reproduction is the criteria to judge
 that the offspring is a new species, but I don't think that is a valid
 argument.  We see cases everyday in humans wherein an offspring is so
 genetically deformed that it can not reproduce and yet it is still human.
 Failure to mate and reproduce demonstrates a genetic problem, not
 demonstrate a Macro-Evolution event.

 I do not believe  this reproduction criteria is valid.


 Jojo



 - Original Message -
 *From:* David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com
 *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com
 *Sent:* Wednesday, August 27, 2014 12:21 AM
 *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Evolutionists As Idiots

 Correct me if I am wrong Jojo, but I suspect you are looking for a case
 where a beginning species evolves into a second species that can no longer
 share genes with the original mother species, but can reproduce among its
 new members.

 My first thoughts were how dogs were derived from wolves, but I believe
 that they can still breed together.  I suppose my dog is a wolf in disguise.

 Mules are close to what you are seeking, but they are a combination of two
 different species and sterile in most cases(all but one that I have read
 about).

 I suppose a beginning search would include different animal species that
 mate among themselves but do not bear young as a result.  I do not keep up
 with such statistics and perhaps some on the list are knowledgeable in the
 subject and can enlighten us.  If these different mating species have the
 same number of chromosomes then perhaps once they shared a common ancestor
 species.  At least this would seem to be a good way to seek examples of
 current evolution if it can be found.

 Dave



 -Original Message-
 From: Sunil Shah s.u.n@hotmail.com
 To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
 Sent: Tue, Aug 26, 2014 8:27 am
 Subject: Re: [Vo]:Evolutionists As Idiots

  I really don't know if new diseases counts as an example of evolution
 to you,
 but a quick search came up with this
 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK45714/

 A weird example of this I suppose, is this contagious cancer.
 http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/01/140123141742.htm

 I was rather awestruck by the implications of such a disease (the fact
 that it
 carries the genome of the ORIGINAL bearer!)

 But I will also agree, that contagious cancer isn't a disease-spreading
 species
 (a virus or bacterium). So we could disqualified it from the new
 diseases suggestion.

 /Sunil


  --
 From: jojoiznar...@gmail.com
 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
 Subject: Re: [Vo]:Evolutionists As Idiots
 Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2014 17:27:46 +0800

 Baloney, if you know the subject as you claim, and there are thousands
 of books; then it should not be a problem for you to give me ONE example.

 Just one example of an observed macro-evolution event where we can see one
 species change into another.  JUST ONE...



 Jojo



 - Original Message -
 *From:* Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com
 *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com
 *Sent:* Tuesday, August 26, 2014 10:51 AM
 *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Evolutionists As Idiots

  Jojo Iznart jojoiznar...@gmail.com wrote:

  To Jed and the rest of Darwinian Evolutionists here:

 I have a simple question:

 1.  What is your best evidence of Darwinian Evolution occuring?


 There are thousands of books full of irrefutable proof that Darwinian
 evolution is occurring. For you, or anyone else, to question it is exactly
 like questioning Newton's law of gravity, or the fact that bacteria causes
 disease.

 I am not going to debate this. Anyone who denies basic science on this
 level is grossly ignorant. These nonsensical distinctions between macro-
 and micro-level evolution have no basis in fact. They are the product of
 religious creationism, which is sacrilegious nonsense, since it posits God
 as a cosmic deceiver who filled every nook and cranny of life with proof of
 evolution just as a trick to fool us.

 If you want to learn about evolution and biology, read a textbook. Don't
 annoy people who know the subject.

 I will not try to spoon-feed you facts about nature that you should have
 learned in 3rd grade. Anyone who makes the kind of ridiculous assertions
 about evolution that you make is beyond my help. I spent far too much time
 trying to educate people about cold fusion. When people have no idea of how
 the laws of thermodynamics operate, or the difference between power and
 energy, there is no chance they can understand cold fusion. It is a waste
 of time trying to explain it. I have uploaded papers on cold fusion,
 including some guides for beginners. Other people have uploaded beginner's
 guides to evolution. Learn from them, or wallow in ignorance. Your choice.
 As

Re: [Vo]:global warming?

Jojo said: Even if this were true, the same events would open up vast
tracts of the northern American Continent for agriculture.  There is little
agriculture in the Southwest so impact of a megadrought would be minimal
to the US food security picture.

Even considering your worst case scenario. it is still a plus overall for
humanity.

Unlikely this will be a plus for Humanity.  More like a tragedy as nothing
will grow, and place that do get rain will get too much of it.



On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 10:07 PM, Jojo Iznart jojoiznar...@gmail.com
wrote:

  Even if this were true, the same events would open up vast tracts of the
 northern American Continent for agriculture.  There is little agriculture
 in the Southwest so impact of a megadrought would be minimal to the US
 food security picture.

 Even considering your worst case scenario. it is still a plus overall for
 humanity.


 Jojo




 - Original Message -
 *From:* Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com
 *To:* vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
 *Sent:* Wednesday, August 27, 2014 9:48 AM
 *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:global warming?

  http://phys.org/news/2014-08-southwest-megadrought-century.html

 No matter how it is caused, the residences of the west coast will need to
 adapt.

 Due to global warming, scientists say, the chances of the southwestern
 United States experiencing a decadelong drought is at least 50 percent, and
 the chances of a megadrought – one that lasts up to 35 years – ranges
 from 20 to 50 percent over the next century.

  The study by Cornell, University of Arizona and U.S. Geological Survey
 researchers will be published in a forthcoming issue of the American
 Meteorological Society's *Journal of Climate*.

 For the southwestern U.S., I'm not optimistic about avoiding real
 megadroughts, said Toby Ault, Cornell assistant professor of earth and
 atmospheric sciences and lead author of the paper. As we add greenhouse
 gases into the atmosphere – and we haven't put the brakes on stopping
 this – we are weighting the dice for megadrought.


  Ault said that the West and Southwest must look for mitigation
 strategies to cope with looming long-drought scenarios. This will be worse
 than anything seen during the last 2,000 years and would pose unprecedented
 challenges to water resources in the region, he said.




 On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 2:57 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com
 wrote:

 Axil, There is plenty of reason the believe that the earth is on an
 overall warming cycle.   We can be fairly confident that one day it will
 reverse and we will be facing a new ice age since this has happened over
 and over again according to the best historical measurements.  No doubt
 that polar ice contributes to the process along with countless other
 natural and man made phenomena.

 When the next ice age begins is clearly debatable and I hope that we have
 many years before that devastating event comes upon us.  So far I have not
 heard a great deal of noise from the global warming crowd suggesting that
 the current warming period will encourage the return of the cold that is so
 dangerous to our existence.   It is only a matter of time before this
 becomes a rallying cry of that group of alarmists.  They will get my
 attention at that point provided their models begin to demonstrate accurate
 predictions without needing serious corrections every few years.

 We should resist the urge to put our lives and economies into the hands
 of this group until and if their predictions can be shown to be
 trustworthy.  It may well turn out that what they are attempting is
 intractable and not subject to accurate modeling.   What they contend to be
 caused by man might merely be a natural consequence of the earths response
 to solar and cosmic driving forces.  Sometimes it is very difficult to
 separate cause and effect.

 The development of LENR systems will come around soon and that will
 rapidly reduce the dependence upon fossil fuels and additional warming gas
 releases needed to supply our energy future demands.   Lets reserve our
 concerns about what may or may not happen in 100 years under the current
 conditions and realize that our species has been quite adaptable in the
 past and will find a solution to any problems that arise.   The scientific
 understanding that will develop during that period will appear as magic to
 us.

 Dave


  -Original Message-
 From: Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com
  To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
 Sent: Tue, Aug 26, 2014 2:13 pm
 Subject: Re: [Vo]:global warming?

  Ice is melting and feeding the deep ocean currents that rise every few
 decades to cool off the coasts.

 Sea level rise is the simple indicator that marks the point of disaster.
 Coastal cities will flood as the ice melts. When all the ice is gone, that
 is when the climate is in big trouble. The temperature of the oceans
 controls the temperature of the atmosphere. The melting of the ice is the
 factor that introduces the oscillations in the climate.

 If you

Re: [Vo]:global warming?

No David, and thank you for not regurgitating a FOX news report on global
warming.  Physics is a very powerful tool for our understanding of the
world.  We live it every day from the engineering of bridges on a
macro-scale to the nano-scale of your home computer's vlsi cpu.  The point
is PEOPLE KNOW SHIT.  Physics, Chemistry,  Mathematics, Engineering, and
the vast Biological sciences have give people an immense knowledge base
about what is fact and what is fiction.  That knowledge base is VAST!
 Indeed, we Cold Fusioniers are trying to add new knowledge into that
expanse material properties and behaviors.

Climate scientists also have vast knowledge in their fields.  Sure, one can
second guess them but does that make you expert enough to refute their
claims?  (In this case WARNINGS about a potential extinction event!)   Hell
no.  I hope that everyone on vortex realizes that this thing called
climate change by rightwingers, is actually slow motion global
extinction. Here is why.  The amount of CO2 in our atmosphere from the
combustion of fossil fuels is similar in levels released from major meteor
strikes on earth.

http://www.nature.com/news/2009/090513/full/news.2009.477.html

Bottom line, is there is a lot to be concerned about.   Deniers of Global
Warming need to be very concerned as life sometimes just doesn't give a
shit what you think.




On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 10:49 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote:

 I saw where that Atlantic current is the assumed reason for the pause and
 it might actually be the culprit.  The climatologists also had a number of
 other possible factors that they were considering before they finally chose
 that particular one.  Does it not concern you that this factor was just now
 discovered?  Surely a really good model of the climate system would have
 included that factor previously while at the same time these guys were
 making claims that they had great confidence in their earlier predictions.

 This type of situation is the root of my skeptical feeling toward
 them.   On several occasions, of which this is the latest, the models have
 been found to fail to take into consideration very important factors that
 were later added when the predictions did not match the measurements.  I
 can only assume that there are several, or perhaps many other factors that
 are waiting for an opportunity to appear.  This likely will occur a number
 of times in the next 100 years as the models continue to make erroneous
 predictions.

 It is entirely possible that these guys now have a perfect model but only
 sufficient time will prove that is true.  How can we make laws that
 encumber our industries and lives based upon this type of prediction that
 may likely prove grossly inaccurate?  In my opinion it would be much wiser
 to wait until the models really show good performance before we act.  That
 will take at least a 10 year wait to begin to demonstrate
 accurate predictions versus merely curve fitting old data.  Besides, the
 model makers now claim that it will likely be 11 years before the heating
 spell returns.  The actual turn around point is not known or predicted with
 confidence at this time.  A throw of dice is about that accurate.

 I would truly love to have faith in those predictive models to make our
 tough decisions easier to swallow.   Unfortunately, that is a luxury that
 is not available to me and I would hope that others realize that the
 models do not deserve our respect considering their track record.  In time
 I am confident that they will improve, but there is no guarantee that they
 can ever do a super job of predicting a system with the complexity of our
 climate.  Only time can answer that question.

 I wonder if these guys are being more humble now that they have been shown
 to have serious errors in their models?  If not, then the problem will not
 go away without finding a new set of actors.

 It is not fun being a skeptic and taking all the heat from the more
 trusting guys on this list, but I find it cowardly to silently sit by and
 accept what I consider wrong.

 Dave


 -Original Message-
 From: CB Sites cbsit...@gmail.com
 To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
 Sent: Tue, Aug 26, 2014 6:20 pm
 Subject: Re: [Vo]:global warming?

  I was reading last week's Science magazine and they had an paper that
 talks about the new finding that the Atlantic ocean was trapping much more
 heat than expected.They conclude that the leveling out of temperature
 rise is due to this.   It's a pretty compelling science finding.
 What they found are that currents in the Atlantic are moving much faster
 than normal and that was caused by a change in salinity from fresh water
 melts.   The faster currents are pulling more of the hot surface waters
 down to 1000m or more.   This gives the appearance of cooling global
 temperatures and giving the stair step in land/atmosphere temperature rise.
   This current reverses every 30 years, so they expect the shelf

Re: [Vo]:Accuracy of Carbon Dating

Just to add a side note: CO2 from fossil fuels is also effecting carbon
dating, as a lot of the C13 has already decayed in fossil fuels.  In fact
that is one way we know that the CO2 causing global warming is from man
made sources.



On Mon, Aug 25, 2014 at 10:18 AM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com
wrote:

 Jojo, my dear alien, you cannot do carbon dating of anything past ~1950
 because there is a lot of contamination due C13 from nuclear explosions.

 The mammoth ages seem OK, it is usual to find parts of different animals
 together.

  You don't take the age of non living things with carbon dating. Carbon
 dating don't go to 300ka, there isn't calibration for that. An age like
 this mean you have just measured background contamination.

 Old Amerindian remains, specially during the 80's, were involved in many
 controversies, since the mainstream academic view was that the Clovis
 culture had to be the oldest, and any pre Clovis  was considered outright
 bullshit. So, there was a lot of nitpicking to lower the age of these
 outliers.


 --
 Daniel Rocha - RJ
 danieldi...@gmail.com

Re: [Vo]:global warming?

Since google.



On Mon, Aug 25, 2014 at 1:37 PM, Bob Cook frobertc...@hotmail.com wrote:

  Since when does 6 C correspond with 42.8 F?

 Sent from Windows Mail

 *From:* CB Sites cbsit...@gmail.com
 *Sent:* ‎Sunday‎, ‎August‎ ‎24‎, ‎2014 ‎7‎:‎12‎ ‎PM
 *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com

 Jojo, I really think you miss the point.  Let assume a moment the global
 average temperature was 6C above average.  That is 42.8 degrees Fahrenheit!
  You and the deniers have got to get an understanding of what that means.
  It means extinction of life as we know it.  I know you deniers think some
 how man kind will survive.  To be honest, I think that is doubtful.
  Economic systems will not survive, food supplies will not provide, and
 warring political systems will doom the planet.

 I really don't need to say much more, reality will take control and play
 out future events that the deniers will bitch about all the way to the
 extinction of man.




 On Sun, Aug 24, 2014 at 9:38 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com
 wrote:

 Eric, I realize how complex the problem that these guys are facing must
 be.  That is the root cause of their problem.  You have listed several good
 points and I will take them into consideration.

 My main issue with the current models is that new processes and
 interactions are being uncovered frequently which modify the behavior of
 the models in a significant manner.  I ask what would be the output of a
 model at the end of this century that had all of the known and
 unknown pertinent factors taken into consideration?  The recent
 acknowledgement of a new factor that allows for a 30 year pause in
 temperature rise is not an issue to be taken lightly.  It also inflicts
 upon me the concern that there are likely more of these factors that remain
 hidden as of today.

 I suspect you have relied upon curve fitting routines in the past and
 realize that enough variables can be chosen and adjusted to match any set
 of input data as closely as desired as long as that data is sparse.  You
 also probably realize that a polynomial fit to a high power order yields
 coefficients that vary depending upon the order of the polynomial chosen.
 Many combinations of coefficients will fit the input/output data over a
 restricted range.  The problem shows up once you use those
 different coefficients to project the curve forwards into unknown future
 points.

 We are now clearly in witness to an example of the type of problem that I
 am speaking of.  The old data apparently matched the functional
 relationship that the modelers have chosen to an excellent degree until the
 pause.  They were confident that no pause would appear and many suggested
 that they would be worried if the pause lasted for more than about 5
 years.  As we know that time period came and passed and the pause continued
 which forced many of these guys to seek an explanation.

 Now, after several more years of unexpected pause, they have come up with
 their best explanation due to the 30 year Atlantic current cycle.  Where
 was this cycle included during the long hockey stick period?  Some might
 consider that the high rate of heating during the earlier period might have
 come about due to added heating by this same cycle.  That certainly makes
 sense to me.

 So, I can not help but to question predictions that have been based upon
 a defective model.  Furthermore, how confident can you possibly be that
 these guys now have all the important factors included within their
 models?  The proof can only be demonstrated by the performance of the
 models during a period of time where they show reasonable results that
 compare to the real world.  We are seeking knowledge of the world's climate
 in 100 years time as we make plans to counter the expected dangers.  It is
 non sense to trust a model that does not work 20 years into the future for
 this purpose.  The past fits are trivial and can always be obtained by
 curve fitting.  The future fit reveals how good the model actually
 performs.  That is where they are lacking.

 Eric, when I design an electrical network that is built and tested I
 expect it to perform as my model predicts.  If I measured results that were
 seriously in error I would not recommend the circuit to others for the same
 application with known problems.  Instead I would dig deeper into the model
 and devices until the results match the model fairly well.  I have in fact
 done this on several occasions.  Only then is the model useful to generate
 predictions of value.

 Dave




 -Original Message-
 From: Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com
 To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
 Sent: Sun, Aug 24, 2014 4:51 pm
 Subject: Re: [Vo]:global warming?

   On Sun, Aug 24, 2014 at 12:43 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com
 wrote:

  Eric, I suppose the difference between your beliefs and mine amounts to
 my expectation that the climate change scientists should be held to a high
 standard as is required of most other endeavors.  You

Re: [Vo]:global warming?

Opps, my bad, I'm too quick to use google.  Delta 10.8 Degree F is correct.
 Where was my brain? Duhh. Embarrassing, but thank you for correcting me.
 Still that is a major change and would effect many many different eco
systems, and AGW effects already have upset several.  10.8 is an average
across the globe, and completely ignores weather.  One of the main aspects
of global warming is how much energy it puts into the atmosphere, land and
oceans.  In the case of oceans, much is put into the evaporation of water,
which puts more humidity in the air, which is also a green house gas, that
further adds more energy into the oceans.   Cold fronts from the polar
regions would cause the water vapor to condense and rain, but as the polar
regions warm, that might not happen.

Similarly a delta of 10.8F  or 6C will release more methane gasses from
melting permafrost or from thawing methane clathrate on the bottom of the
ocean floor.  Some people believe methane (CH4) is bigger threat than CO2.

http://www.global-warming-forecasts.com/methane-carbon-dioxide.php

If that animal is released we really could be talking delta T's in the
42.8F range and worst.



On Mon, Aug 25, 2014 at 8:52 PM, CB Sites cbsit...@gmail.com wrote:

 Since google.



 On Mon, Aug 25, 2014 at 1:37 PM, Bob Cook frobertc...@hotmail.com wrote:

  Since when does 6 C correspond with 42.8 F?

 Sent from Windows Mail

 *From:* CB Sites cbsit...@gmail.com
 *Sent:* ‎Sunday‎, ‎August‎ ‎24‎, ‎2014 ‎7‎:‎12‎ ‎PM
 *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com

 Jojo, I really think you miss the point.  Let assume a moment the global
 average temperature was 6C above average.  That is 42.8 degrees Fahrenheit!
  You and the deniers have got to get an understanding of what that means.
  It means extinction of life as we know it.  I know you deniers think some
 how man kind will survive.  To be honest, I think that is doubtful.
  Economic systems will not survive, food supplies will not provide, and
 warring political systems will doom the planet.

 I really don't need to say much more, reality will take control and play
 out future events that the deniers will bitch about all the way to the
 extinction of man.




 On Sun, Aug 24, 2014 at 9:38 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com
 wrote:

 Eric, I realize how complex the problem that these guys are facing must
 be.  That is the root cause of their problem.  You have listed several good
 points and I will take them into consideration.

 My main issue with the current models is that new processes and
 interactions are being uncovered frequently which modify the behavior of
 the models in a significant manner.  I ask what would be the output of a
 model at the end of this century that had all of the known and
 unknown pertinent factors taken into consideration?  The recent
 acknowledgement of a new factor that allows for a 30 year pause in
 temperature rise is not an issue to be taken lightly.  It also inflicts
 upon me the concern that there are likely more of these factors that remain
 hidden as of today.

 I suspect you have relied upon curve fitting routines in the past and
 realize that enough variables can be chosen and adjusted to match any set
 of input data as closely as desired as long as that data is sparse.  You
 also probably realize that a polynomial fit to a high power order yields
 coefficients that vary depending upon the order of the polynomial chosen.
 Many combinations of coefficients will fit the input/output data over a
 restricted range.  The problem shows up once you use those
 different coefficients to project the curve forwards into unknown future
 points.

 We are now clearly in witness to an example of the type of problem that
 I am speaking of.  The old data apparently matched the functional
 relationship that the modelers have chosen to an excellent degree until the
 pause.  They were confident that no pause would appear and many suggested
 that they would be worried if the pause lasted for more than about 5
 years.  As we know that time period came and passed and the pause continued
 which forced many of these guys to seek an explanation.

 Now, after several more years of unexpected pause, they have come up
 with their best explanation due to the 30 year Atlantic current cycle.
 Where was this cycle included during the long hockey stick period?  Some
 might consider that the high rate of heating during the earlier period
 might have come about due to added heating by this same cycle.  That
 certainly makes sense to me.

 So, I can not help but to question predictions that have been based upon
 a defective model.  Furthermore, how confident can you possibly be that
 these guys now have all the important factors included within their
 models?  The proof can only be demonstrated by the performance of the
 models during a period of time where they show reasonable results that
 compare to the real world.  We are seeking knowledge of the world's climate
 in 100 years time as we make plans to counter

Re: [Vo]:Accuracy of Carbon Dating