DIS: How are Rule ID Numbers assigned?

2019-06-01 Thread Jason Cobb
27;t seem to be a way of assigning ID numbers specified in the rules, thus giving the Rulekeepor some (small) amount of say in the application of the rules. Jason Cobb

Re: DIS: How are Rule ID Numbers assigned?

2019-06-01 Thread Jason Cobb
Wow. Thank you all for the quick replies. I really was not expecting it that quickly. That all makes sense, thank you. Jason Cobb On Sat, Jun 1, 2019 at 9:14 PM ais...@alumni.bham.ac.uk < ais...@alumni.bham.ac.uk> wrote: > On Sat, 2019-06-01 at 18:09 -0700, Aris Merchant wrote: >

DIS: The Ritual

2019-06-01 Thread Jason Cobb
context, there is no specific Entity or document that can violate the rule. I see a few possible interpretations: that Agora itself would violate the rule, that each individual Player would violate the rule, or perhaps the Rule simply fails to identify a violator at all. Any thoughts? Thanks, Jason Cobb

Re: DIS: The Ritual

2019-06-01 Thread Jason Cobb
Interesting. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens, then. Thanks for the help! Jason Cobb On Sat, Jun 1, 2019 at 10:51 PM Aris Merchant < thoughtsoflifeandligh...@gmail.com> wrote: > This is indeed a tad confusing. The Ritual was explicitly designed as an > e

Re: DIS: Proto-judgements of CFJs 3726 and 3727

2019-06-01 Thread Jason Cobb
I will make no claims as to the accuracy of the drafts, but you did forget a "what" in the wording "D. Margaux calls is later named CFJ 3727." :) Jason Cobb On Sat, Jun 1, 2019 at 11:59 PM James Cook wrote: > Comments welcome. Sorry that it's so long. I went back

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Intent to Become a Player

2019-06-02 Thread Jason Cobb
Thanks :) Jason Cobb On Sun, Jun 2, 2019 at 10:30 AM ATMunn wrote: > Welcome to Agora, Jason Cobb! > > On 6/1/2019 10:02 PM, Jason Cobb wrote: > > I declare my intent to become a Player. > > > > Jason Cobb > > >

DIS: Rule 2481: "Imminence"?

2019-06-02 Thread Jason Cobb
Are my text-searching skills failing me, or did this Rule just get left behind in a previous update? Jason Cobb

Re: DIS: Rule 2481: "Imminence"?

2019-06-02 Thread Jason Cobb
Correction, Rule 2481, point 2, not point 3. Jason Cobb On Sun, Jun 2, 2019 at 11:57 AM Jason Cobb wrote: > Hey, another newbie question for you all. > > Rule 2481, point 3 reads: "Non-Festive players cannot flip the Imminence of > any proposal;". However, a simple tex

Re: DIS: Rule 2481: "Imminence"?

2019-06-02 Thread Jason Cobb
Thanks, that's an interesting history. I suppose this would be an issue easy to fix (by just striking the bullet point), right? Jason Cobb On Sun, Jun 2, 2019 at 12:05 PM ais...@alumni.bham.ac.uk < ais...@alumni.bham.ac.uk> wrote: > On Sun, 2019-06-02 at 11:57 -0400, Jason Cobb

Re: DIS: Rule 2481: "Imminence"?

2019-06-02 Thread Jason Cobb
So I gather that if a Rule refers to an Entity that was previously defined by the rules, but no longer is, that section of the Rule just has no effect? Is that correct? Jason Cobb On Sun, Jun 2, 2019 at 12:16 PM ais...@alumni.bham.ac.uk < ais...@alumni.bham.ac.uk> wrote: > On Sun, 2

Re: DIS: Rule 2481: "Imminence"?

2019-06-02 Thread Jason Cobb
That makes sense. Thank you. Sorry for all the questions, I obviously haven't been interpreting these rules for as long as you :) Jason Cobb On Sun, Jun 2, 2019 at 12:49 PM ais...@alumni.bham.ac.uk < ais...@alumni.bham.ac.uk> wrote: > On Sun, 2019-06-02 at 12:40 -0400, Jason Cobb

Re: DIS: Proto-judgements of CFJs 3726 and 3727

2019-06-02 Thread Jason Cobb
; This seems to run afoul of Rule 217: "Definitions and prescriptions in the rules are only to be applied using direct, forward reasoning; in particular, an absurdity that can be concluded from the assumption that a statement about rule-defined concepts is false does not constitute proof that

Re: DIS: Proto-judgements of CFJs 3726 and 3727

2019-06-02 Thread Jason Cobb
Ah, sorry, this should have been a direct reply to the main message, not a reply to Charles Walker. On Sun, Jun 2, 2019 at 7:20 PM Jason Cobb wrote: > I'm very new, so please take this with a massive pile of salt. > > You write: > "In both cases, if the gamestate did n

Re: DIS: Rule 2481: "Imminence"?

2019-06-02 Thread Jason Cobb
One issue with that interpretation might be that "to flip" is a term of art. Jason Cobb On Sun, Jun 2, 2019 at 9:19 PM Rebecca wrote: > I wonder if imminence if not defined as a term of art just bears its > ordinary meaning; i.e, nobody can change " > the state o

Re: DIS: Rule 2481: "Imminence"?

2019-06-02 Thread Jason Cobb
efined as a term of art just bears its ordinary meaning; i.e, nobody can change " the state or fact of being about to happen" of a proposal if a festival happens. Presumably that would prohibit non-festive players from removing proposals somehow? On Mon, Jun 3, 2019 at 2:52 AM Jason Cob

DIS: Re: BUS: Whoops

2019-06-02 Thread Jason Cobb
Well, this should be fun :) On 6/2/19 10:38 PM, James Cook wrote: I Point my Finger at every player, in the following order: omd, Aris, Gaelan, G., Cuddle Beam, Trigon, Murphy, ATMunn, twg, D. Margaux, Jacob Arduino, Falsifian, Bernie, Rance, o, Jason Cobb, Walker, PSS, Corona, V.J. Rada

Re: DIS: Proto-judgements of CFJs 3726 and 3727

2019-06-02 Thread Jason Cobb
rule-defined concepts is false does not constitute proof that it is true." Jason Cobb On 6/1/19 11:59 PM, James Cook wrote: Comments welcome. Sorry that it's so long. I went back and forth on 3726 a couple of times. I believe this is due on June 4 at 21:53 UTC. I plan to

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Temporary Deputy-ADoP] Initiation of Election for Prime Minister

2019-06-02 Thread Jason Cobb
e valid options, both messages failed to initiate an election under Rule 104. —— [1] https://www.mail-archive.com/agora-business@agoranomic.org/msg33821.html [2] https://www.mail-archive.com/agora-business@agoranomic.org/msg33823.html -- Trigon -- Jason Cobb

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Temporary Deputy-ADoP] Initiation of Election for Prime Minister

2019-06-03 Thread Jason Cobb
Ah, sorry, I just checked, and I registered 90 minutes too late to vote in this election. Probably for the best anyway as I still don't really know who people are. Jason Cobb On 6/3/19 2:10 AM, Aris Merchant wrote: I'm happy to! My platform was that I was working to resolve the

Re: DIS: Fake Zombies

2019-06-03 Thread Jason Cobb
ng exactly one Citizenship switch is that, by creating accounts stating intent to "register", you are asserting that your Citizenship is currently set to "Unregistered". This would likely constitute a lie under Rule 2471 ("No Faking"). Jason Cobb On 6/4/19 12:07 AM

Fwd: Re: DIS: [Referee] Ritual Finger Pointing Proto-Decision

2019-06-03 Thread Jason Cobb
Gah, sorry D. Margaux. Forwarded Message Subject:Re: DIS: [Referee] Ritual Finger Pointing Proto-Decision Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2019 00:30:06 -0400 From: Jason Cobb To: D. Margaux I'll point out that in that example, both parties were each committin

DIS: On Cleanliness

2019-06-04 Thread Jason Cobb
Given that Rule 2221 ("Cleanliness") permits correcting the capitalization of a rule, would that, for example, permit changing a rule from saying "shall" to "SHALL" (or vice versa)? Note: I'm not planning anything, the question just crossed my mind. -- Jason Cobb

DIS: Re: BUS: comptrollor nerf

2019-06-06 Thread Jason Cobb
Fogive me if I misunderstand, but isn't the power of a proposal 0 unless and until the Decision about it results in ADOPTED? Thus, during the voting period, the Comptrollor would still have higher power than the proposal, fulfilling the requirements of Rule 2140. On 6/6/19 12:15 PM, Kerim Aydi

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: comptrollor nerf

2019-06-06 Thread Jason Cobb
y the changes that it specifies. On Thu, Jun 6, 2019 at 9:40 AM Jason Cobb wrote: Fogive me if I misunderstand, but isn't the power of a proposal 0 unless and until the Decision about it results in ADOPTED? Thus, during the voting period, the Comptrollor would still have higher power than

DIS: Re: BUS: Right Action

2019-06-06 Thread Jason Cobb
Thank you, but why? On 6/6/19 11:13 PM, Owen Jacobson wrote: I pay 12 coins to Jason Cobb. I pay 4 coins to V.J Rada. I pay 4 coins to Walker. -o

DIS: Agreement to Contracts

2019-06-07 Thread Jason Cobb
e 1742, agreement to this contract is given when an Officer publishes a weekly or monthly report that is required by the Rules. [...] } Obviously I would continue on to do something evil. Again, I'm sure there's a CFJ or a part of the Rules I am missing, but I haven't found it yet. Thanks, Jason Cobb

Re: DIS: Agreement to Contracts

2019-06-07 Thread Jason Cobb
the precedent that "willful consent/agreement means evidence that you're invoking consent on purpose, not as an accidental/redirected result of doing something else." On Fri, Jun 7, 2019 at 10:53 AM Jason Cobb wrote: Here's another newbie-ish question, since I'm sure some

DIS: Overpowered Deputies

2019-06-08 Thread Jason Cobb
into the office, which Rule 2472 cannot prevent. The other requirements trivially do not help. I think this is unlikely to be considered a severe vulnerability, but it appears to be a vulnerability to me. Thoughts? -- Jason Cobb

Re: DIS: Overpowered Deputies

2019-06-09 Thread Jason Cobb
I could maybe see some shenanigans with being able to act as both Referee and Arbitor but, as you said, probably nothing too serious. Jason Cobb On 6/9/19 6:48 PM, Kerim Aydin wrote: It's a known scam, it's been used a few times where someone deputizes for PM to appoint emself

DIS: Re: BUS: CFJ: Can The Ritual be banished?

2019-06-09 Thread Jason Cobb
There's no such thing as a Call for *Justice*.  :) Jason Cobb On 6/9/19 7:49 PM, Rance Bedwell wrote: I want to attempt to banish The Ritual, but I do not believe it is currently possible to do so. For this reason I Call For Justice for this statement: "The value of N Agor

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: CFJ on Blots

2019-06-10 Thread Jason Cobb
that wording captured by the Rule? The authorizing Instrument would be the Rule, giving it power to do secured changes. The Rule explicitly delegates to the proposal, thus effectively giving it the entire power of the Rule to destroy assets. Jason Cobb On 6/10/19 3:34 PM, Kerim Aydin wrote:

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: CFJ on Blots

2019-06-10 Thread Jason Cobb
I'm sorry, but I keep hearing this and I don't know what it means. Does it mean that you wish to be the Judge? Jason Cobb On 6/10/19 8:53 PM, Rebecca wrote: i favor this one On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 10:28 AM Kerim Aydin wrote: On general principle - yep! The Rules can delegat

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: CFJ on Blots

2019-06-10 Thread Jason Cobb
I would personally argue that a proposal does not need to take effect in order to simply _describe_ permisibility of an action, and thus this rule would delegate to all such proposals, even those not yet adopted or those explicitly voted down. Jason Cobb On 6/10/19 8:28 PM, Kerim Aydin wrote

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: CFJ on Blots

2019-06-11 Thread Jason Cobb
I was suggesting a problem with G.'s suggested wording: "except as described by a proposal or rule". I think with the current wording, you're right, although it does prevent players from destroying eir own blots, which is what the CFJ is about. Jason Cobb On 6/11/19 4

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: CFJ on Blots

2019-06-11 Thread Jason Cobb
I was thinking something more like "except as explicitly specified by the asset's backing document", since restricting it to Instruments would prevent a contract from destroying its own indestructible assets. Jason Cobb On 6/11/19 12:42 PM, ais...@alumni.bham.ac.uk wrote: On

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: CFJ on Blots

2019-06-11 Thread Jason Cobb
'll submit an actual proposal soon. Jason Cobb On 6/11/19 12:58 PM, Kerim Aydin wrote: That works nicely, because "the Rules" as a backing document already specifies how Proposals change things, so that's covered. On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 9:52 AM Jason Cobb wrote: I was

DIS: Re: BUS: judicial list

2019-06-11 Thread Jason Cobb
What is the '"weekend court" distinction'? Jason Cobb On 6/11/19 4:28 PM, Kerim Aydin wrote: The judicial list (interested judges) I'm working from is: D. Margaux, G., Murphy, Trigon, Falsifian, V.J. Rada Any changes/additions, or did I miss anyone? Thinking of doi

Re: DIS: [Promotor] Draft Report

2019-06-11 Thread Jason Cobb
I am the author of "Not so indestructible now, eh?". This is correct in the table but not correct in the text of the proposal. Jason Cobb On 6/11/19 7:31 PM, Aris Merchant wrote: Given how long it's been, and how many proposals there are, I'd like to send out a draft rath

DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Promotor] Distribution of Proposals 8180-8187

2019-06-12 Thread Jason Cobb
Why do people not like OUGHT? I get the issue with contractions, not really OUGHT, though. Jason Cobb On 6/12/19 2:03 PM, D. Margaux wrote: I vote and cause L to vote as follows: 8180 Trigon, D Margaux 1.0 Paying our Assessor FOR 8181 D Margaux, [1]1.7 Referee CAN Impose

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Promotor] Distribution of Proposals 8180-8187

2019-06-12 Thread Jason Cobb
That seems like a reasonable distinction to me, at least. Jason Cobb On 6/12/19 2:18 PM, D. Margaux wrote: To my ear, "ought" means something slightly different from "should." I would have thought that "ought" means that something is required from a moral per

DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Referee] Weekly Report

2019-06-12 Thread Jason Cobb
So does this just mean that you will publish an updated report after the resolution of the CFJ? Can this self-ratify before the CFJ gets a judgment? Jason Cobb On 6/12/19 4:35 PM, D. Margaux wrote: I resolve this by reference to CFJ 3734 On Wed, Jun 12, 2019 at 4:24 PM Jason Cobb wrote

Re: DIS: Idea: Notice and comment

2019-06-13 Thread Jason Cobb
. Perhaps a solution would be to permit judges to award Coins (or some other asset) to people who submit helpful arguments (or counterarguments during the comment period, in the system you describe)? Although I worry that that might create perverse incentives. Jason Cobb On 6/13/19 5:15 PM, omd

DIS: Re: BUS: Oh, and [Attn. Arbitor]

2019-06-13 Thread Jason Cobb
I'm sorry, what does this mean? Jason Cobb On 6/13/19 5:22 PM, omd wrote: I sit up.

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Promotor] Distribution of Proposals 8180-8187

2019-06-13 Thread Jason Cobb
les - maybe we could say that interpretations or attempts to infer/reason from the rules are VALID or INVALID? That would also prevent creating criminal liability. It would also be more searchable for newer judges (myself included). Jason Cobb On 6/13/19 7:45 AM, Rebecca wrote: that's

Re: DIS: report reward fixes

2019-06-14 Thread Jason Cobb
-official/2019-February/012775.html [1]: https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-official/2019-February/012795.html Jason Cobb On 6/14/19 6:48 PM, D. Margaux wrote: On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 6:39 PM omd wrote: Perhaps simplify to something like: * Publishing an

Re: DIS: Idea: Notice and comment

2019-06-14 Thread Jason Cobb
Would such a section become precedent just as the normal part of a judgment would, or would it be purely informational? Jason Cobb On 6/14/19 9:54 PM, James Cook wrote: On Sat, 15 Jun 2019 at 01:13, omd wrote: On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 5:58 PM James Cook wrote: Requiring notice and comment

DIS: [idea] Agora owning Blots

2019-06-14 Thread Jason Cobb
into Blots for each individual Player (probably at a very reduced ratio). I'm sure you all could be more creative than me :). Anyway, this is obviously just an idea (maybe not even a good idea), and I would love feedback. Thanks! :) -- Jason Cobb

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: CFJ on Regulated Actions

2019-06-14 Thread Jason Cobb
> Telling someone that they aren’t allowed to do something does limit there ability to do it Did you mean that it _doesn't_ limit their ability to do it? Jason Cobb On 6/15/19 12:25 AM, Aris Merchant wrote: I think you’re misunderstanding what the word “limit” means (or at least w

DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Promotor] Distribution of Proposals 8180-8187

2019-06-15 Thread Jason Cobb
Any particular reason you are against 8182? I meant it as a simple bugfix. Jason Cobb On 6/15/19 12:26 PM, Charles Walker wrote: I vote as follows: 8180 Trigon, D Margaux 1.0 Paying our Assessor FOR 8181 D Margaux, [1]1.7 Referee CAN Impose Fines (v1.1) AGAINST 8182

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: CFJ on Regulated Actions

2019-06-15 Thread Jason Cobb
Looking back at it, you are probably right in your interpretation, and I think that the judge is likely to agree with you. I didn't withdraw the CFJ (and I couldn't now, anyway) because I think there could be other interpretations, and it can't hurt to get it down in writing. J

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Judgement of CFJ 3737

2019-06-16 Thread Jason Cobb
I like it. It seems to be a direct logical consequence of the judgment (although this might get you an IRRELEVANT judgment). Jason Cobb On 6/16/19 5:09 PM, Kerim Aydin wrote: On 6/16/2019 1:45 PM, Reuben Staley wrote: My judgement is as follows: When a player "SHALL NOT" perform

DIS: Re: BUS: Judgement of CFJ 3737

2019-06-16 Thread Jason Cobb
ulated Actions") { A Regulated Action CAN only be performed as described by the Rules,and only using the methods explicitly specified in the Rules for performing the given action. The Rules SHALL NOT be interpreted so as to proscribe unregulated actions. } Jason Cobb

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Judgement of CFJ 3737

2019-06-16 Thread Jason Cobb
Simply striking the last sentence of the Rule would suffice... Jason Cobb On 6/16/19 7:28 PM, Rebecca wrote: G., I strongly suspect, very strongly, that there is a body of precedent on regulated actions. Do you know anything about that before we get too hasty? I create and pend the below

Re: DIS: unregulation

2019-06-16 Thread Jason Cobb
"prohibited or regulated by the Rules" through the requirement for some people to follow the contract, thus taking away everyone's right to breathe in the Rules. Note that I could be wrong about the above, especially if there is CFJ precedent about this language. Jason Cobb

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Judgement of CFJ 3737

2019-06-16 Thread Jason Cobb
only be performed as described by the Rules,and only using the methods explicitly specified in the Rules for performing the given action. } Jason Cobb On 6/16/19 9:11 PM, Rebecca wrote: But it's a truism that the rules only regulate what they regulate, we don't need a speci

Re: DIS: unregulation

2019-06-16 Thread Jason Cobb
uires its players to, say, perform the Ritual, without allowing it to say that the Ritual can be performed by doing something else, like, say, sending a public message. - As currently, contracts can create requirements upon players that the Rules will enforce on the parties only. Jason

DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Arbitor] CFJ 3736 assigned to omd

2019-06-16 Thread Jason Cobb
Well that screws up my Oathbreaking CFJ *grumble grumble*. Jason Cobb On 6/17/19 12:43 AM, omd wrote: On Sun, Jun 16, 2019 at 10:31 PM omd wrote: On Sun, Jun 16, 2019 at 10:24 PM Aris Merchant wrote: I intend with 2 support to group-file a motion to reconsider. This ruling suggests that a

DIS: Re: BUS: CFJ on recordkeepors

2019-06-16 Thread Jason Cobb
I meant to ask about that. Is there a reason all of these terms use the "-or" suffix even when normal English would use "-er"? Jason Cobb On 6/17/19 1:04 AM, ais...@alumni.bham.ac.uk wrote: On Mon, 2019-06-17 at 00:58 -0400, omd wrote: CFJ: In Rule 2125, "requ

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Judgement of CFJ 3737

2019-06-17 Thread Jason Cobb
You have two options that I can see (without being guilty of a crime). Either - Breathing is a regulated action, or - The contract does not prohibit breathing. Jason Cobb On 6/17/19 2:20 PM, Reuben Staley wrote: Ah, indeed! So we have our conflict. I SHALL NOT interpret the rules so as to

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Judgement of CFJ 3737

2019-06-17 Thread Jason Cobb
Whoops, modify both of those statements to only apply in the hypothetical. Jason Cobb On 6/17/19 2:20 PM, Jason Cobb wrote: You have two options that I can see (without being guilty of a crime). Either - Breathing is a regulated action, or - The contract does not prohibit breathing. Jason

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Judgement of CFJ 3737

2019-06-17 Thread Jason Cobb
Sorry, by the contract not prohibiting breathing, I meant that the contract can say it prohibits breathing all it wants, but the Rules will not _enforce_ criminal liability for violations of that, thus the Rules wouldn't proscribe breathing. Jason Cobb On 6/17/19 2:29 PM, Reuben Staley

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Judgement of CFJ 3737

2019-06-17 Thread Jason Cobb
I suppose that makes sense. Though that does make me wonder if contracts can specify a crime other than a Class 2 Crime, since this clause doesn't say otherwise. Jason Cobb On 6/17/19 3:45 PM, Kerim Aydin wrote: I think V.J. Rada had it right - the Rules don't punish breathing, t

Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [ADoP] Metareport

2019-06-17 Thread Jason Cobb
Not to the public forum Jason Cobb On 6/17/19 8:09 AM, Rebecca wrote: CoE: there is no astronomor or clork post te sidegame suspension act On Mon, Jun 17, 2019 at 7:18 PM Edward Murphy wrote: =Metareport= You can find an up-to-date version of this report at http

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Referee] Weekly Report (rev. 1)

2019-06-17 Thread Jason Cobb
It would appear so, my apologies. Jason Cobb On 6/18/19 1:47 AM, James Cook wrote: On Mon, 17 Jun 2019 at 05:04, Jason Cobb wrote: (This means that Corona was not a player from ~10 June to ~13 June because ratification.) I don't think the "fugitive" vs. "player" d

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Registrar] Agoran Directory

2019-06-17 Thread Jason Cobb
Yeah, it was that heading. Jason Cobb On 6/18/19 2:01 AM, James Cook wrote: On Tue, 18 Jun 2019 at 05:56, Jason Cobb wrote: I point my finger at Falsifian for the Crime of Making My Eyes Bleed. [Yes this is silly, but the rule (Rule 2143) is silly.] Jason Cobb Sorry about that! Do you

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Breaking an Oath

2019-06-18 Thread Jason Cobb
CFJ 3736, I would love to hear it ;). Jason Cobb On 6/18/19 8:13 AM, D. Margaux wrote: As stated, this CFJ is trivially FALSE because no fine CAN be imposed for anything. Maybe there is a different way to pose the CFJ that would be PARADOXICAL though? On Jun 16, 2019, at 1:25 AM, Jason Cobb

Re: BUS: Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Referee] Weekly Report

2019-06-18 Thread Jason Cobb
Well, not that anything will actually happen :P Jason Cobb On 6/18/19 12:03 PM, Jason Cobb wrote: I point my finger at D. Margaux for the Crime of Making My Eyes Bleed. Jason Cobb On 6/18/19 8:25 AM, Rebecca wrote: As I said, per the revised version of that CFJ, the referee CAN impose the

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Judgement of CFJ 3737

2019-06-18 Thread Jason Cobb
, for them to breath would violate this wording, making it a Class 2 crime. The CFJ is, effectively, whether or not the regulated actions rule "reaches into the contract", as G. put it. So, is there any textual or precedent basis for asserting whether or not the Rules "reach in

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Making an Oath

2019-06-18 Thread Jason Cobb
I don't think you can interpret as establishing criminal liability, since it says "shall" and Rule 2152 ("Mother, may I?") specifically requires all capitals ("SHALL"). Jason Cobb On 6/18/19 8:42 PM, Owen Jacobson wrote: On Jun 16, 2019, at 12:46 AM, Jason

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Making an Oath

2019-06-18 Thread Jason Cobb
I just wanted to make an easy to break pledge :( Jason Cobb On 6/18/19 9:20 PM, Owen Jacobson wrote: On Jun 18, 2019, at 9:11 PM, Rebecca wrote: There is a directly on point CFJ in re pledges and that "no prohibition" clause, that being 3538. For anyone else interested, the archi

DIS: [proto] Regulated actions reform

2019-06-19 Thread Jason Cobb
y describes an alternate violation requirement mechanism. A requirement-creating entity CAN define an investigator for Finger Pointing that it authorizes. If it does so, this overrides the default investigator specified by the Rules, if any. } -- Jason Cobb

Re: DIS: [proto] Regulated actions reform

2019-06-19 Thread Jason Cobb
Hmm I just realized that I would have to change more wording in order to allow fines. Jason Cobb On 6/19/19 4:17 PM, Jason Cobb wrote: Here's a proto-proposal. This fleshes out some ideas I mentioned in G.'s "unregulation" thread. This is mostly brought on by the recent i

Re: DIS: [proto] Regulated actions reform

2019-06-19 Thread Jason Cobb
my house? the reason it's so massive is that you*tried* (and quite possibly failed, because anticipating every possible consequence in advance is basically impossible) to deal with all of the necessary consequences. Correction: definitely did fail. Pretty quickly after I submitted it, I

Re: DIS: [proto] Regulated actions reform

2019-06-19 Thread Jason Cobb
itly specified in the entity for performing the given action. The entity SHALL NOT be interpreted so as to proscribe actions that are not regulated by it. An action is game-defined if and only if it is a regulated action of some requirement-creating entity. Retitle Rule 2125 to "

Re: DIS: [proto] Regulated actions reform

2019-06-19 Thread Jason Cobb
I would suggest "regulating", but I feel like that could easily get confused with regulations. Jason Cobb On 6/19/19 11:24 PM, Aris Merchant wrote: I'd personally create a shorter word for "requirement-creating entity". I'm not sure what it should be, but the

Re: DIS: [proto] Regulated actions reform

2019-06-19 Thread Jason Cobb
That would require rewriting the tournaments wording, and it's kind of close to the Birthday tournament to be doing that. Jason Cobb On 6/19/19 11:38 PM, Rebecca wrote: what if you repeal regulations and change regulations to mean this On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 1:38 PM Jason Cobb wrote

Re: DIS: [proto] Regulated actions reform

2019-06-19 Thread Jason Cobb
Maybe "binding"? "Contracts are binding", "Regulations are binding". "An entity is binding if and only if..." Jason Cobb On 6/19/19 11:37 PM, Jason Cobb wrote: I would suggest "regulating", but I feel like that could easily get confused wi

Re: DIS: [proto] Regulated actions reform

2019-06-19 Thread Jason Cobb
The purpose of Oaths isn't to define new actions, and the Rules define the crime of Oathbreaking. Jason Cobb On 6/19/19 11:51 PM, Rebecca wrote: Basically I like this proposal, which is good (although Oaths should also be binding, right?) but I can't vote for it unless it slashes

Re: DIS: [proto] Regulated actions reform

2019-06-19 Thread Jason Cobb
Okay, I've updated my local draft of it to use "binding". Jason Cobb On 6/19/19 11:52 PM, Aris Merchant wrote: That actually makes a lot of sense, logically. The term binding is only used in a few places in the rules, and, at a glance, I don't think any of them would confli

Re: Fwd: Re: DIS: [proto] Regulated actions reform

2019-06-19 Thread Jason Cobb
I thought of that, but that looks a lot like the name of an office. Also gets pretty close to "regulations". Jason Cobb On 6/20/19 12:09 AM, Edward Murphy wrote: Aris wrote: I'd personally create a shorter word for "requirement-creating entity". I'm not sure wh

Re: DIS: [proto] Regulated actions reform

2019-06-19 Thread Jason Cobb
o be all explicit about what it means to define something, I feel like that should include gamestate in addition to actions. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by this. What would it mean to define the gamestate? Unless you mean the term "gamestate" itself? Jason Cobb On 6/20

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Judgement of CFJ 3737

2019-06-20 Thread Jason Cobb
anomic.org/msg26252.html Jason Cobb On 6/20/19 11:59 AM, Kerim Aydin wrote: lol.  I just noticed that "The Rules SHALL NOT be interpreted so as to proscribe unregulated actions" can be directly interpreted as proscribing unregulated actions. (because "interpreting rule

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Judgement of CFJ 3737

2019-06-20 Thread Jason Cobb
Hey, I do not object to being granted a win by paradox :P. Jason Cobb On 6/20/19 8:49 PM, Rebecca wrote: I agree with omd. Once again, the only good solution is to follow my interpretation of the word "limit". Additionally, I strongly object to whoever called this CFJ being grante

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Judgement of CFJ 3737

2019-06-20 Thread Jason Cobb
That's the definition of "limit" as a noun, not a verb. Rule 2125 clearly uses it as a verb. Jason Cobb On 6/20/19 10:28 PM, Rebecca wrote: Limit, the first definition off of google "a point or level beyond which something does not or may not extend or pass." d

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Judgement of CFJ 3737

2019-06-20 Thread Jason Cobb
I think to consider a forbidden interpretation and then explicitly reject it probably would not run afoul of this SHALL NOT. Jason Cobb On 6/20/19 7:56 PM, omd wrote: On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 4:58 AM D. Margaux wrote: In my opinion, this case is logically undecidable because the facts of the

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Judgement of CFJ 3737

2019-06-20 Thread Jason Cobb
Why would this go to moot when we could just endlessly group-file motions to reconsider? Jason Cobb On 6/20/19 11:31 PM, Kerim Aydin wrote: I feel like we're hitting a binary decision point with a split group of players so I'm guessing this is Moot-bound regardless (FWIW, I'm

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Judgement of CFJ 3737

2019-06-20 Thread Jason Cobb
't helpful for anyone, but I haven't been broken of my idealism yet. Jason Cobb On 6/20/19 11:41 PM, Aris Merchant wrote: I’m for this solution. Moots are kinda lousy at consensus building, due to the limited number of voting options. -Aris On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 8:39 PM Rebecca wrote:

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: CFJ 3737: non-binding agoran decision

2019-06-20 Thread Jason Cobb
Mumbles something about instant-runoff only working for entities and voting [Rule 2125, Agora, G., Aris, Corona]. Jason Cobb On 6/21/19 12:38 AM, Aris Merchant wrote: If we’re doing this, it should be instant runoff. -Aris On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 9:37 PM Rebecca wrote: I would like us

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: CFJ 3737: non-binding agoran decision

2019-06-20 Thread Jason Cobb
Also not really something we can force upon em... Jason Cobb On 6/21/19 1:10 AM, Reuben Staley wrote: Recuse D. Margaux? What good would that do? On 6/20/19 10:47 PM, omd wrote: On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 9:37 PM Rebecca wrote: I would like us all to informally vote TRUE, FALSE, PARADOXICAL

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Judgement of CFJ 3737

2019-06-20 Thread Jason Cobb
ing the remaining options, I judge PARADOXICAL." I don't think that this judgment reads into the record that the Rules proscribe any unregulated action. Jason Cobb On 6/20/19 11:24 PM, Aris Merchant wrote: Yeah, I’d agree with that. It doesn’t seem like that’s what the judge is

DIS: Re: BUS: Judgement of CFJ 3737

2019-06-21 Thread Jason Cobb
tracts to which I am not party to be regulated for me. Therefore, the flipping of the judge switch of CFJ X would NOT be regulated for me, and the Rules SHALL NOT be interpreted to proscribe it. I really hope that my reasoning is flawed in some way because, otherwise, this is a disturbing precede

Re: DIS: [proto] Regulated actions reform

2019-06-21 Thread Jason Cobb
y SHALL NOT be interpreted so as to proscribe actions that are not regulated by it. An action is game-defined if and only if it is a regulated action of some binding entity. Retitle Rule 2125 to "Binding Entities". Set the power of Rule 2125 to 3.1. } Jason Cobb On 6/19/19 9

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Judgement of CFJ 3737

2019-06-21 Thread Jason Cobb
. I just can't provide a fully informed comment on ISIDTID for unregulated actions. Jason Cobb On 6/21/19 8:26 PM, James Cook wrote: I don't think sending a message saying you flip a switch causes the switch to flip just because you said it and it's unregulated. I think this is the &

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Judgement of CFJ 3737

2019-06-21 Thread Jason Cobb
make sense, we’d need to assume that you have the inherent power to alter arbitrary variables, which doesn’t make sense. How dare you underestimate me! Jason Cobb On 6/21/19 9:47 PM, Aris Merchant wrote: Murhpy’s statement is true, it’s just incomplete. It’s not true that unregulated actions

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Election Intents

2019-06-21 Thread Jason Cobb
That doesn't sound suspicious at all... Jason Cobb On 6/21/19 10:28 PM, Aris Merchant wrote: It’s kind of hard to communicate subtleties over text, so just so I’m clear: I’d really, really, really like to remain Promotor. :) -Aris On Fri, Jun 21, 2019 at 5:53 PM Aris Mer

DIS: Re: BUS: The ruleset is too long so

2019-06-21 Thread Jason Cobb
performing it; Rule 2598 ("Side-Game Suspension") contains no such clause to prohibit supporters from doing so. Jason Cobb On 6/21/19 10:32 PM, Aris Merchant wrote: On Wed, Jun 19, 2019 at 11:18 PM James Cook wrote: On Thu, 20 Jun 2019 at 03:35, Rebecca wrote: I support bu

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: The ruleset is too long so

2019-06-21 Thread Jason Cobb
;that player" would still be R. Lee, since e is the one that announced intent. Do you happen to know if there is precedent for this? Jason Cobb On 6/21/19 10:43 PM, Aris Merchant wrote: Yes, but then I’d be installed into the relevant office. I don’t want another office at the moment, and

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Election Intents

2019-06-21 Thread Jason Cobb
y be construed as a lie or a falsehood published in a report. Jason Cobb On 6/21/19 10:40 PM, Aris Merchant wrote: I assure you, I’m not plotting anything malevolent. I just really enjoy the work, and it’s become part of my routine. I’d deeply miss it if no longer held the job. On the few occasions

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: The ruleset is too long so

2019-06-21 Thread Jason Cobb
Ah sorry about that then. Jason Cobb On 6/21/19 10:53 PM, Rebecca wrote: We've always taken it to mean the player who actually takes the action that requires support. For example, I have intended to initiate elections but I also don't want three of those positions, so I will leave

Re: DIS: Proto: Timeline Control Ordnance

2019-06-21 Thread Jason Cobb
t;The judgement of an inquiry case should be based on the facts and legal I take issue with "should". I feel like this should be stronger, at least SHOULD. Perhaps maybe a MUST? I don't really take any issue with the substance of the proposal, it all seems reasonable to me. Ja

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