Not this one again. Is the mailing list randomly selecting old messages to
repeat!
Paul Mckenzie wrote:
I enquired about Frames the other day ... I received most of the answers
the same day - but it wasn't until the next day that I finally say my
question !
Phil Scadden wrote:
Short answer: YES!
My take on this situation is as follows:
1. Microsoft has already been bitten once having to support multiple
architectures (see Alpha and MIPS), and to avoid this problem in the future
(see x86-64 and IA-64) they hace created .NET as a platform neutral
Unless .NET can run a great deal faster than Java, then this is a
very risky strategy. A port of Linux to x86-64/IA-64 would allow developers
to create native applications (open office) that would run rings around
.NET applications compiled to CLR.
There's no reason to expect that CIL
-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Corey Murtagh
Sent: Thursday, 9 October 2003 7:29 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list delphi
Subject: Re: [DUG]: octane
Phil Scadden wrote:
Short answer: YES!
My take on this situation is as follows:
1. Microsoft has already been
Message-
From: David Brennan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 9:39 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list delphi
Subject: RE: [DUG]: octane
I don't think he was comparing .NET and Java. Java was just
an example of another slow language. The point was that if
.NET
will die but that this could grossly improve
M$ OS offering
IMHO
Neven
- Original Message -
From: David Brennan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Multiple recipients of list delphi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 9:38 AM
Subject: RE: [DUG]: octane
I don't think he
Witherden, Stephen wrote on Thursday, 9 October 2003 9:47 a.m.:
Because .Net uses a JIT compiler rather than an interpreter
Yes, but so does Java...
Cheers,
Paul
---
New Zealand Delphi Users group - Delphi List - [EMAIL
of list delphi
Subject: RE: RE: RE: [DUG]: octane
Witherden, Stephen wrote on Thursday, 9 October 2003 9:47 a.m.:
Because .Net uses a JIT compiler rather than an interpreter
Yes, but so does Java...
Cheers,
Paul
Because .Net uses a JIT compiler rather than an interpreter, you can
theoretically optomise at runtime for the platform you are running on.
I think the word here is theoretically. It has to be a whole lot faster
than the JIT compiler that java uses to get near native application speeds.
We have
would have
to say I think you are wrong.
David.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Witherden, Stephen
Sent: Thursday, 9 October 2003 10:06 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list delphi
Subject: RE: RE: RE: RE: [DUG]: octane
Yes, true. I am
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 10:20 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list delphi
Subject: RE: RE: RE: RE: [DUG]: octane
Mmmm.
Is this theory or fact? I have yet to see a Java application that didn't run
like a dog (compared to native apps like Delphi compiled apps). So are you
saying that in future
Actually not true. Java can be natively compiled from source
or bytecode (or a mix) and this can be done for free. Check
out:
http://gcc.gnu.org/java/
One of the issues I see here is that .NET is not a Delphi
exclusive and if support grows as strong as some people in
this list believe it will
: Thursday, 9 October 2003 10:34 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list delphi
Subject: RE: RE: RE: RE: [DUG]: octane
Here is a link for delphi, java, .net performance
http://www.tempest-sw.com/benchmark/.
By reading that, it seems that java, .net is not significantly slow that
best C/C++ code
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 10:16 AM
Subject: RE: RE: [DUG]: octane
Because .Net uses a JIT compiler rather than an interpreter, you can
theoretically optomise at runtime for the platform you are running on.
I think the word here is theoretically. It has to be a whole
Maybe this is moving offTopic now guys.
jeremy
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of David Brennan
Sent: Thursday, 9 October 2003 10:53
To: Multiple recipients of list delphi
Subject: RE: RE: RE: RE: [DUG]: octane
If you mean taking about 50
Leigh Wanstead wrote on Thursday, 9 October 2003 10:34 a.m.:
Here is a link for delphi, java, .net performance
http://www.tempest-sw.com/benchmark/.
By reading that, it seems that java, .net is not significantly slow
that best C/C++ code.
In my experience, most if not all of the Java
Here is a link for delphi, java, .net performance
http://www.tempest-sw.com/benchmark/.
Lies, damn lies and benchmarks. A tiny algorithms to compute PI
is ideal (and improbable) target for JIT compilers. Any real benchmarks
published?
--
Why are they dogs? One thing to remember with
the JVM is that AFAIK Graphics capabiltiy is
DrawText, DrawLine and DrawPixel which makes it
worse than useless for a seroius GUI App
I am not Java developer so hard to comment on why. Certainly noone
has seriously tried java for graphics app.
]
Behalf Of Phil Scadden
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 11:21 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list delphi
Subject: RE: RE: RE: RE: [DUG]: octane
Here is a link for delphi, java, .net performance
http://www.tempest-sw.com/benchmark/.
Lies, damn lies and benchmarks. A tiny algorithms to compute PI
Paul Mckenzie wrote:
Windows initially sat on top of DOS...
The way I see it - .NET will eventually, somehow, become the platform itself
(maybe 64-bit).
At the moment .NET is primarily a Java challenger for the Windows
platform... and others, once the various non-MS CIL/CLR implementations
out
Deja-vu...
We seem to be in a time warp. Glitch in the Matrix?
David.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of delphiuser
Sent: Monday, 6 October 2003 3:06 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list delphi
Subject: Re: [DUG]: octane
If you're
Phil Scadden asked:
Is there now a proposal that .NET replaces win32 eventually??
Short answer: YES!
My take on this situation is as follows:
1. Microsoft has already been bitten once having to support multiple
architectures (see Alpha and MIPS), and to avoid this problem in the future
(see
Not sure how long this will take to get through to you all obviously...
;-)
FYI, an update about Octane:
http://bdn.borland.com/article/0,1410,29952,00.html
Cheers,
Conor
---
New Zealand Delphi Users group - Delphi List
Windows initially sat on top of DOS...
Initially. ?? Still does :-)
The way I see it - .NET will eventually, somehow, become the platform itself
(maybe 64-bit).
As a bytecode interpreter? So I am going to write my services/databases
etc for a virtual machine? Something other than assembler
Phil Scadden wrote:
Windows initially sat on top of DOS...
Initially. ?? Still does :-)
Win9x and WinMe do, yes. And they're both virtually retired by
Microsoft. The WinNT line hasn't had anything much to do with DOS,
except for the WoW core which allows DOS programs to run in a window.
The
-Original Message-
Personally, I have no interest in .NET as yet. If I have to use it I
will, but until then... C++ Builder suits me just fine :
You have read the Open Letter to C++ Builder users haven't you? C++BuilderX
- the new C++Builder follows quite a different path...
oh hahaha
good onya, finally i receive my own post
from monday
- Original Message -
From: Tracey Maule
To: Multiple recipients of list delphi
Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 10:55 AM
Subject: [DUG]: octane
I have been reading the borland open
letter to the delphi community, and
PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 11:56 AM
Subject: RE: [DUG]: octane
UNLESS.you are still supporting win32 apps. and dont have the time
or resources, i..e money, to upgrade the client to .NET.
Its also a waist of time converting an app. to .NET if the client still
uses Windows ME
Richard Vowles wrote on Monday, 6 October 2003 11:40 a.m.:
Win32 is dead, time to bury it.
And I think this message is undead ...
:)
Cheers,
Paul
---
New Zealand Delphi Users group - Delphi List - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: RE: [DUG]: octane
Richard Vowles wrote on Monday, 6 October 2003 11:40 a.m.:
Win32 is dead, time to bury it.
And I think this message is undead ...
:)
Cheers,
Paul
---
New Zealand Delphi Users group - Delphi
Short answer: YES!
My take on this situation is as follows:
1. Microsoft has already been bitten once having to support multiple
architectures (see Alpha and MIPS), and to avoid this problem in the future
(see x86-64 and IA-64) they hace created .NET as a platform neutral
environment.
Why do you need another version of the Win32 compiler hmm?
It could do with serious optimising and it needs to look forward to
64bit for future performance. If that path is being followed,
then its time
to start the long goodbye.
I will still use Delphi 6, which works perfectly well for
such as StarTeam
Unfortunately this information about Octane only adds fuel
to the fire...
- Original Message -
From: Richard Vowles [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Multiple recipients of list delphi
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 11:39 AM
Subject: RE: [DUG]: octane
Win32
bought it on
release.
- Original Message -
From: Witherden, Stephen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Multiple recipients of list delphi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 12:04 PM
Subject: RE: RE: [DUG]: octane
I don't understand why everyone is complaining so bitterly.
Why do you need
Can anyone confirm these three points?
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of delphiuser
Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 3:06 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list delphi
Subject: Re: [DUG]: octane
If you're into conspiracy theories then take note
What would be a good alternative math library to use then? from a
performance point of view.
I'm not the expert here. When I began tripping over the problems in the
math library, I switched thankfully to Eric Grange's Geometry.pas
(part of GLScene) which besides fixing the problems,
at
Linux/Kylix.
Regards
Colin
-Original Message-From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Richard VowlesSent: Monday, 6 October 2003 11:40
a.m.To: Multiple recipients of list delphiSubject: RE:
[DUG]: octane
Win32 is dead, time
to bury
recipients of list dELphi
Subject: RE: RE: [DUG]: octane
What would be a good alternative math library to use then? from a
performance point of view.
I'm not the expert here. When I began tripping over the problems in the
math library, I switched thankfully to Eric Grange's Geometry.pas
(part
PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of C
FraserSent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 9:47 AMTo:
Multiple recipients of list delphiSubject: RE: [DUG]:
octane
No
way... maybe for new apps... but not for the hoards of existing
apps...
We
won't be going to .net on the client
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Leigh Wanstead
Sent: Tuesday, 7 October 2003 09:11
To: Multiple recipients of list delphi
Subject: RE: [DUG]: octane
Can anyone confirm these three points?
(1) I suspect that this rumour has been
] On Behalf Of Leigh
Wanstead Sent: Tuesday, 7 October 2003 09:11
To: Multiple recipients of list delphi
Subject: RE: [DUG]: octane
Can anyone confirm these three points?
(1) I suspect that this rumour has been started because
Linux bites on the desktop.
(2) Well you have to be absolutely
Cool, thanks for that.
Nahum.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Phil Scadden
Sent: Tuesday, 7 October 2003 09:28 a.m.
To: Multiple recipients of list dELphi
Subject: RE: RE: [DUG]: octane
What would be a good alternative math
of list delphi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 8:38 AM
Subject: Re: RE: [DUG]: octane
wow these messages took nearly a whole day to get to me!
I still dont see my last post, or any answers to it so i will repost:
lost post #1.
Something must be up with the server today
Richard Vowles wrote on Tuesday, 7 October 2003 10:45 a.m.:
(1) I suspect that this rumour has been started because Linux bites
on the desktop.
Actually I suspect the real reason for this would actually be the lack
of uptake of Kylix (which is unfortunate because it is a pretty good
product)
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of delphiuser
Sent: Tuesday, 7 October 2003 11:06
To: Multiple recipients of list delphi
Subject: RE: [DUG]: octane
Sounds good - after all only Delphi developers appreciate
how good the IDE
Rather than discussing rumours, it would be useful to get a firm
position on all this from Borland USA if they have one at this time.
I suspect they don't just yet. But yes, I agree.
Furthermore I think anyone who believes Win32 is dead and .NET is going
to somehow take over immediately is
Furthermore I think anyone who believes Win32 is dead and .NET is going
to somehow take over immediately is mistaken - for instance, look at how
long some Win16 applications survived. A lot of people feel the need to
migrate to .NET right now, and I understand that to accommodate those
people
PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 1:39 PM
Subject: RE: RE: [DUG]: octane
Furthermore I think anyone who believes Win32 is dead and .NET is going
to somehow take over immediately is mistaken - for instance, look at how
long some Win16 applications survived. A lot of people feel
Title: Message
As I
understand it, there is a utility available to convert .NET byte code to win 32
code. However, I am unsure how well this works, if the resulting vode still
requires the .NET framework and so on. I have not actually used it ever. I
believe I found it on the Microsoft
I have no other information than you but the way I
read the letter was.
We were running into time issues with D8, we had
completed the .Net portion of Octane but not the Win32 part so we decided not to
update it in this release so we could ship on time.
As an added bonus for Borland they
Title: Message
Ok,
the understanding I have (based on what I managed to absorb at Richard's last
presentation)is that there are two distinct products in the
offing:
Delphi.Net
The
long awaited .Net compiler for Delphi. I look forward to this because it will
bring our code in line with
Yes for now. Delphi for .NET Octane
that is due for release by the end of the year will be 100% .NET and run inside
the same IDE as the C#Builder one. It will not support the Win32 platform
simply because there is not enough time to build it in. Shortly after that
release (3-4 months)
!
Jeremy
-Original Message-
From: Robert martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Multiple recipients of list delphi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 11:09:34 +1300
Subject: Re: [DUG]: octane
I have no other information than you but the way I read the letter was.
We were running into time
2003 11:09
To: Multiple recipients of list
delphi
Subject: RE: [DUG]: octane
As I
understand it, there is a utility available to convert .NET byte code to win 32
code. However, I am unsure how well this works, if the resulting vode still
requires the .NET framework and so on. I have not actually
Win32 is dead, time to bury it.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Robert martin
Sent: Monday, 6
October 2003 11:10
To: Multiple recipients of list
delphi
Subject: Re: [DUG]: octane
I have no other information than you
If you are developer for webby-type applications, I can see the attraction of
.NET and the interest, but if you develop for hardcore win apps, the noises for
Delphi are little worrying:
1/ Win32 looks like dropping out of focus. Marketing has decided little to
be gained from improving compiler
, but an observation.
Jeremy
-Original Message-
From: Richard Vowles [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Multiple recipients of list delphi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 11:39:58 +1300
Subject: RE: [DUG]: octane
Win32 is dead, time to bury it.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL
, 2003 11:56 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list delphi
Subject: RE: [DUG]: octane
UNLESS.you are still supporting win32 apps. and dont have
the time
or resources, i..e money, to upgrade the client to .NET.
Its also a waist of time converting an app. to .NET if the
client still
uses
and costs $
Rob MartinSoftware Engineerphone 03 377 0495fax 03
377 0496 web www.chreos.com
- Original Message -
From:
Richard
Vowles
To: Multiple recipients of list delphi
Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 11:39
AM
Subject: RE: [DUG]: octane
Win32 is dead
order
these days to know what is really going on :-)
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Phil Scadden
Sent: Monday, 6 October 2003 11:42
To: Multiple recipients of list dELphi
Subject: Re: [DUG]: octane
1/ Win32 looks like dropping out
: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of vss
Sent: Monday, 6 October 2003 11:56
To: Multiple recipients of list delphi
Subject: RE: [DUG]: octane
UNLESS.you are still supporting win32 apps. and dont have the time
or resources, i..e money, to upgrade the client to .NET.
Its also
Title: Message
From
the borland.public.delphi.netpreview Usenet newsgroup this
morning...
Quoting John Kaster, Borland Developer Relations:
I just got done speaking to Simon Thornhill,
and we are updating the open letter and the QA regarding
Octane.There are 4 pieces of information I have
So the Microsoft Marketing Machine hasnt
worked on you then Rob? J
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Robert martin
Sent: Monday, 6 October 2003 12:08
To: Multiple recipients of list
delphi
Subject: Re: [DUG]: octane
Product
No, not yet :)
Rob MartinSoftware Engineerphone 03 377 0495fax 03
377 0496 web www.chreos.com
- Original Message -
From:
Richard
Vowles
To: Multiple recipients of list delphi
Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 12:56
PM
Subject: RE: [DUG]: octane
So
Software Assurance is offered when the
product is purchased, it is about 20% of the retail (non-discounted) cost.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Laurence Bevan
Sent: Monday, 6 October 2003 13:11
To: Multiple recipients of list
Er, Win32 _has_ dropped out of focus. Talk Win32 and you get no time from
Microsoft
Interesting. Wonder what their games division thinks of trying to develop on
.NET? (apart from the net comms side of multiplayer games).
Delphi Win32
isn't going to go away for quite a few years I suspect, but
Why do you need another version of the Win32 compiler hmm?
It could do with serious optimising and it needs to look forward to
64bit for future performance. If that path is being followed, then its time
to start the long goodbye.
I will still use Delphi 6, which works perfectly well for my
Title: Message
Yeah,
on to Win64!
-Original Message-From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Richard VowlesSent: Monday, 6 October 2003 11:40To:
Multiple recipients of list delphiSubject: RE: [DUG]:
octane
Win32 is dead, time
to bury it.
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