Re: D beyond the specs

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Friday, 16 March 2018 at 11:44:59 UTC, Chris wrote:

Hint: there's a Ph.D. in it ;)


Hint: Do not write a Ph.D based on impressions ;-)

Re: OT: Behaviour of Experienced Programmers Towards Newcomers

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Saturday, 17 March 2018 at 07:01:53 UTC, rumbu wrote:


3 days ago:

https://forum.dlang.org/post/ylngefsfuwqodaprw...@forum.dlang.org


yeah...but that presumes Amorphorious is an 'expert programmer'.

which is not the impression I got ;-)

Re: OT: Behaviour of Experienced Programmers Towards Newcomers

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Saturday, 17 March 2018 at 07:16:22 UTC, Jonathan M Davis 
wrote:


Unfortunately, we do periodically have folks act like that 
around here, but fortunately, for the most part, it's folks who 
don't stick around long, and our regular posters are generally 
well-behaved.


- Jonathan M Davis


yeah I agree 100%

the people that actually know stuff around here, are NOT the 
people that treat others badly.


I have certainly worked in environments where the opposite is 
true. I usually left them pretty quickly. Life is short.


I've also trained sysadmins myself, and I can say, that holding 
back the sarcasm takes a real personal committment - to just not 
doing it.


Once you make that committment, it becomes easier and 
easier...and soon enough, you're back to treating people the way 
they deserve to be treated.


ultimately, its a personal choice, to treat people properly, or 
not.


I don't think it's a 'community' thing. treating people properly 
is not dependent on any sense of being in a 'community'. so here 
I differ with the view in that article.


(having said that, not all sarcasm is meant to offend. the best 
of friends can throw sarcasm at each other, and still be the best 
of friends).

Re: OT: Behaviour of Experienced Programmers Towards Newcomers

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Sunday, 18 March 2018 at 06:28:11 UTC, Amorphorious wrote:
And who the fuck are you? See, it's funny how you say I'm a 
noob with mental problems that says shit about people yet you 
are doing THE EXACT SAME THING! At the very least, you are no 
better than me, in fact worse, because you pretend you are all 
high and mighty and then throw your underhanded attacks in.




hey. I understand that someone saying you have mental problems 
can be taken as an attack. I think the person that made the 
comment, should not have said it.


I think we all have mental problems... it's comes from being 
human ;-)


I volunteer in the mental health sector, so I know the mental 
health issues and being human seem highly correlated ;-)


In any case, you are clearly a very intelligent person (based on 
my analysis of your previous discussions over a long... period of 
time), so why not use your brain to benefit people instead of 
attacking them?


Try to explain how people are wrong, so they can learn.

Don't call people morons. It's pointless, and just reflects badly 
on you.

Re: On reddit: Quora: Why hasn't D started to replace C++?

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Thursday, 1 February 2018 at 00:57:16 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:

https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/7udfs4/is_anyone_replacing_c_with_d/


I think what will get people really interested in D, is an 
updated book from Andrei.


I'm sure plenty of people (particulary C++ programmers) would be 
very, very interested. Even more so, if you (Walter Bright) 
co-author it.


When can I pre-order?

Re: On reddit: Quora: Why hasn't D started to replace C++?

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Thursday, 1 February 2018 at 09:51:16 UTC, psychoticRabbit 
wrote:
On Thursday, 1 February 2018 at 00:57:16 UTC, Walter Bright 
wrote:

https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/7udfs4/is_anyone_replacing_c_with_d/


I think what will get people really interested in D, is an 
updated book from Andrei.


I'm sure plenty of people (particulary C++ programmers) would 
be very, very interested. Even more so, if you (Walter Bright) 
co-author it.


When can I pre-order?


Oh...and a title suggestion?

How about .. "The Case for D"

(based on)
http://www.drdobbs.com/parallel/the-case-for-d/217801225

Re: An idea for commercial support for D

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Wednesday, 31 January 2018 at 08:43:46 UTC, Joakim wrote:

...

My time-limited model makes sure all source is made open 
eventually, once the developers have been paid for their work.




This deceptive hybrid model (based I my understanding of it per 
the description above) is really offensive to those of us who 
understand the concept of open-source, and the benefits that flow 
from it.


You (not you personally - I mean the person implementing such a 
hybrid model) lure people in with free open source, then, when 
something is found to be wrong with it, you make them wait for 
the fix.. until.. .. .. your ransom has been paid.


Utterly offensive (the model that is).

Open source means just that ...  Open source - It's turtles all 
the way down.


Ransom-ware is something very different.

Re: Quora: Why hasn't D started to replace C++?

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Thursday, 1 February 2018 at 17:13:52 UTC, Seb wrote:


curl https://i.dlang.io/install.sh | bash -s dmd


Yeah..let's all run an untrusted shell script (with unknown 
contents), right off the web.


Will people never learn?

Re: Quora: Why hasn't D started to replace C++?

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Friday, 2 February 2018 at 02:25:47 UTC, Arun Chandrasekaran 
wrote:
On Friday, 2 February 2018 at 02:15:55 UTC, psychoticRabbit 
wrote:

On Thursday, 1 February 2018 at 17:13:52 UTC, Seb wrote:


curl https://i.dlang.io/install.sh | bash -s dmd


Yeah..let's all run an untrusted shell script (with unknown 
contents), right off the web.


Will people never learn?


Relax and take a break. You can still download the script, 
review and then run it as required.


Yeah...it's not like I'm unfamiliar with that concept ;-)

But many (perhaps most) are not.

btw. Oh.. and I do hope that debian/apache webserver they use 
cannot be hacked... cause I've heard you can do some interesting 
stuff on people systems with shell scripts ;-)

Re: An idea for commercial support for D

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Friday, 2 February 2018 at 08:56:04 UTC, Joakim wrote:


So given that all your claims are easily logically proven to be 
nonsense, there's no point in going any further.


You need to do better than that to convince me ;-)

Now.. I might entertain a model of paying someone, *after* they 
had committed there fix back to the community, as open source 
(and the fix has been formely approved and confirmed) - but 
certainly not beforehand.


But even that really worries me, as people may then refuse to 
contribute unless they know they're going to get paid. And, it 
assumes that people in that open source community project have 
the means to pay them. What happens to that open source community 
when the funds are not there?? Do the developers just go off and 
look for other projects that do have funds, like they were 
'bounty' hunters. Is that the future we should be creating?


Your so called hybrid model, is like my neighbour borrowing my 
lawn mower, and while he's got it, he notices it needs an oil 
change, does the oil change, and then refuses to give me back the 
lawn mower till I've reimbursed him. But he never paid for the 
lawn mower did he??


Well.. my neigbour says, if you can't pay me for the oil, then 
I'll take the new oil out, put the old oil back in, and then you 
can have your lawn mower back.


I don't want neighbours like that.

Re: My choice to pick Go over D ( and Rust ), mostly non-technical

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Friday, 2 February 2018 at 15:06:35 UTC, Benny wrote:


I am personally confused with D's message.


I think that point hits the cause of your problem with D (along 
with your need to 'choose' something over 'something' else).


Stop looking for the meaning of D .. and start experiencing it.
(there is no meaning...to anything!)

Stop comparing D to other things, and just enjoy what it has to 
offer.

(tribalism not cool!)

And btw. one persons technical justification for using x, is 
another persons technical justification for not using x.


Plenty of experienced programmers  (who never used D before) now 
enjoy using D, even if they still have to program in other 
languages...in order to earn a living.


Too many corporations have big investments in other languages. 
Don't expect D to compete here anytime soon. That is the nature 
of business. If D is to take off anywhere, it will be in the open 
source community, and startups - not a google or facebook, and 
certainly never microsoft.


D has a lot of good and interesting things to offer to the world 
of software development, including an amazing, reasonably 
efficient standard library (with support from the compiler). It 
also supports all major platforms that matter (although it's hard 
to argue that windows 32bit 'matters' ;-). And there is no 
corporate backer making this all happen. It's just people who 
want to build something great, and give up their time to do it.


D has the benefit of having a compiler expert, and an algorithm 
expert in the core team. The advantage from this cannot be 
underestimated (which is why many are willing to look the other 
way when it comes to lack of significant management skills ;-)
..and I'd rather it that way, than the other way (i.e great 
managers, who don't understand a thing). Both would be nice.. but 
who has that?


But D is on a road trip...it's not at its destination (I'm not 
sure it even knows - or cares - where its going ;-)


Just enjoy the road trip! Or jump out. It's entirely your choice.

But the road trip will continue, and those on it, will keep 
enjoying new sights...

Re: My choice to pick Go over D ( and Rust ), mostly non-technical

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Friday, 2 February 2018 at 15:06:35 UTC, Benny wrote:


Other languages have slogans, they have selling points.

When i hear Go, you hear uniformal, fast, simple syntax 
language.

When i hear Rust, you hear safe, manual memory management.
When i hear D, you hear ... ... ... ...



When i hear D, you hear:

"The freedom to program, the way you want".

(if you listen carefully..then you'll hear it)

Re: An idea for commercial support for D

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Saturday, 3 February 2018 at 10:49:06 UTC, Joakim wrote:
And what we find is that when you allow such mixing with 
permissively-licensed projects (that the GPL makes much more 
difficult), .


I've never been a fan of the GPL.. until I read this thread.

It may well be, that more and more people will look towards the 
GPL as a means to protect their projects from the influence (and 
potential dangers) of this 'hybrid' model.


In any case, I do believe in people having the freedom to make 
their own choices - so I am ok with any model really, providing I 
have a model that suits (and protects) my needs, goals, and 
values.

Re: My choice to pick Go over D ( and Rust ), mostly non-technical

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Saturday, 3 February 2018 at 04:16:25 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:

On 2/2/2018 7:06 AM, Benny wrote:

Other languages have slogans, they have selling points.

When i hear Go, you hear uniformal, fast, simple syntax 
language.

When i hear Rust, you hear safe, manual memory management.
When i hear D, you hear ... ... ... ...


  Fast code, fast


I think this (below) might be closer to your intention...(idea 
taken from a google tech talk)


"Life's Too Short - Write Fast Code, fast."

Re: My choice to pick Go over D ( and Rust ), mostly non-technical

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Saturday, 3 February 2018 at 22:59:06 UTC, Dgame wrote:
This is a nice, refreshing post. You state problems and why you 
switched to Go. You give a ton of informations (here and in 
your prior posts) why you did what you did and what problems 
you've seen. This could be used to improve D. But the regular 
reply you will get if you criticize D even a little is "You are 
wrong! D is great!" or "You have a point, but ...". You can 
watch these discussions regularly, it's really hilarious. It 
always ends in the same way: Criticism is being hunted down and 
after Page 3 you can only read how great D is and why.
I congratulate you on your decision. I also changed to another 
language and I've never regretted it. Sadly the D community 
will never learn from those excelent posts which only wants to 
help D to become better than it is. It's really sad...
I bet this post will also torn apart to bash any sign of 
criticism.


There is always friction, and often conflict, in the open source 
community.


Why? Because there is no dictator, dictating the terms of what 
people should do, how they should do it, when they should do it. 
There are no consequences for not submitting to some authority. 
People are free to think and do as they choose.


So if you want to be part of an 'real' open source community, you 
need to understand that fact - before you understand anything 
else.


This is why democracies are what they are - frought with fiction, 
and often partisan conflict - cause people are free to think for 
themselves - and this often leads to friction and conflict.


You need to be able to maturely deal with that friction and 
conflict.


Go try living in north korea. not much conflict there - you get 
inprisoned or shot if you do not think and do as the leader 
dictates.


Your suggestions are welcome. Just don't tell people that if they 
don't listen to them, then their community is bad. That's not how 
an open source community works.


If you are free to think and do, so are others.

Re: Quora: Why hasn't D started to replace C++?

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Saturday, 3 February 2018 at 15:33:01 UTC, Russel Winder wrote:
Who is your management mentor? It is making your job harder if 
you are trying to teach yourselves purely from experience. Been 
there done that, made much better progress after reading:


In my experience, there is nothing worse than a 'learnt' manager 
;-)


People either have the gift, or they do not. Most do not.

(if they have the gift, then improving their skills is a good 
thing - otherwise they are best doing something they are good at).

Re: An idea for commercial support for D

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Saturday, 3 February 2018 at 13:14:04 UTC, rjframe wrote:


Except it doesn't. The GPL can be used to keep a competitor 
from stepping up and using your work to create an alternative 
product, allowing you to have a mixed open/closed model without 
worrying about competition.


Many companies that have commercial and open source editions 
use the GPL for the open source code; if you submit a patch you 
also have to assign copyright (or maybe unrestricted right of 
use) to that company. Any would- be competitor would always lag 
behind the copyright-holding corp because they have to release 
all features they develop if they distribute the application, 
and the copyright holder is free to take any such work into 
their own product.


I don't understand the legalities of various forms of licencing.

I do understand (to some extent) human motivation.

"Why would any particular person choose to contribute -- 
voluntarily -- to a public good that he or she can partake of 
unchecked as a free-rider?"


And yet people do (contribute -- voluntarily). Why is that?

I think that these so called hybrid models undermine the aligned 
interests of such people, and instead move people's incentive to 
contibute, back towards monetary compensation.


There may well be some positive effect arising from these hybrid 
models, but I am concerned about the negative effects of these 
hybrid models, on such communities - particulary those they don't 
have funds.


Is this the model corporations (or those with money) will use to 
undermine those communities?

Re: An idea for commercial support for D

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Sunday, 4 February 2018 at 08:26:54 UTC, Joakim wrote:


I don't think it affects them much, as none of the motivations 
above would be hurt by paid contributors.  If anything, it 
_increases_ their drive, as they have a lot more OSS code to 
work on with mixed codebases.




Well, it's not clear cut, that is for sure, but, I remain 
concerned that this increasing move towards monetary 
contributions for participating in open source communities, will 
result in fewer contributors (i.e the more time a person has to 
dedicate, the more skilled they are, the more likely they'll be 
the one being paid - leaving all those other contributers at the 
mercy of the contributions from those paid contributors. Then the 
'community' aspect of open source is lost.


Sure, you can distrubute the same poison that corporations drink, 
and give it to the masses..  but guess what will happen... in the 
long run that is.


I would prefer to see a future where money was NOT the primary 
motivating force...  - because that is how open source 
communities came about, in the first place.

Re: My choice to pick Go over D ( and Rust ), mostly non-technical

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Sunday, 4 February 2018 at 10:31:17 UTC, Dgame wrote:
On Sunday, 4 February 2018 at 01:46:34 UTC, psychoticRabbit 
wrote:
Your suggestions are welcome. Just don't tell people that if 
they don't listen to them, then their community is bad. That's 
not how an open source community works.


I've never said that the community is bad. :)


ok.. I stand corrected.

In any case, the problem is not with the community, but your 
expectations of the community.


Once you realise this, you can change your expectations.. and 
then you'll have a much happier time :)

Re: My choice to pick Go over D ( and Rust ), mostly non-technical

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Sunday, 4 February 2018 at 20:15:47 UTC, bpr wrote:


Which benefits of C are lost?



The ability to program on 16-bit platforms (yeah.. they still 
exist ;-)


16bit doesn't matter? .. it matters to me.

Re: Quora: Why hasn't D started to replace C++?

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Sunday, 4 February 2018 at 18:00:22 UTC, Russel Winder wrote:
On Fri, 2018-02-02 at 21:21 +, 12345swordy via 
Digitalmars-d wrote:



[…]
Would it be easier for hire a proven manager(Or at least look 
for mangers that are able to volunteer)?


What the D Foundation needs is a CEO who is a good CEO. Good 
CTOs

rarely make good CEO, though it is possible.


ok..maybe we can agree on that ..at least ;-)

"The software product itself is valuable but is not the key to 
understanding open source. The process is what matters most."

 - Steven Weber (The Political Economy of Open Source Software)

Re: My choice to pick Go over D ( and Rust ), mostly non-technical

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Monday, 5 February 2018 at 07:46:46 UTC, Dgame wrote:

On Monday, 5 February 2018 at 00:56:20 UTC, welkam wrote:

On Sunday, 4 February 2018 at 22:05:45 UTC, Dgame wrote:
I want to use a language and if I see problems which are 
ignored I move on. That is how it is, no offense.


So you see a problem and do not work on fixing it then 
complain that other people do the same. Ok.


Nice try in twisting someones words. As I already said, you are 
one of those guys I spoke about. :) Keep going!


You keep demonstrating the 'actual' problem...everytime you post.

:)

Re: My choice to pick Go over D ( and Rust ), mostly non-technical

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Monday, 5 February 2018 at 10:23:23 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad 
wrote:
On Monday, 5 February 2018 at 08:06:16 UTC, Boris-Barboris 
wrote:
I have no doubt it can be done in the end. I solely imply that 
the disadvantage here is that in C's "main" (imo) use case it 
has to be done, and that is a thing to be concerned about when 
picking a language.


Yes, the wheels are turning. C is for portability and C++ is 
for system level programming.



C is for trusting the programmer, so that they can do anything.

It's also for keeping things fast - *even if not portable*.

Last but not least, C is for keeping things small, and simple.

(btw. these are somewhat paraphrased versions I took from a MISRA 
C paper)


C does all this really well, and has done so... for a very long 
time.


I believe this is why its not so easy to create a 'better' C (let 
alone convince people that there is a need for a better c)

Re: My choice to pick Go over D ( and Rust ), mostly non-technical

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Monday, 5 February 2018 at 11:38:58 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad 
wrote:
On Monday, 5 February 2018 at 11:25:15 UTC, psychoticRabbit 
wrote:

C is for trusting the programmer, so that they can do anything.

It's also for keeping things fast - *even if not portable*.


C++ is the same...


No. C++ is primarliy about higher order abstractions. That's why 
it came about.
Without the need for those higher order abstractions, C is just 
fine - no need for C++


The benefits of C, come from C - and only C (and some good 
compiler writers)


I believe this is why its not so easy to create a 'better' C 
(let alone convince people that there is a need for a better c)


I don't think many want a replacement for C, in the sense that 
the language is very limited.


(depends on what 'many' means)  - There certinaly are 'numerous' 
(what ever that means) projects trying to create a better c - 
which contradicts your assertion.


A limited language can be a good thing too.

Re: My choice to pick Go over D ( and Rust ), mostly non-technical

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Monday, 5 February 2018 at 22:02:09 UTC, Boris-Barboris wrote:
I am of the opinion that currently C has no use outside of 
OS\embedded stuff


Plenty of others seems to have a different opinion ;-)

https://github.com/kozross/awesome-c

(and that link is just for starters)

Re: My choice to pick Go over D ( and Rust ), mostly non-technical

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Monday, 5 February 2018 at 16:03:44 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad 
wrote:
On Monday, 5 February 2018 at 12:23:58 UTC, psychoticRabbit 
wrote:
No. C++ is primarliy about higher order abstractions. That's 
why it came about.
Without the need for those higher order abstractions, C is 
just fine - no need for C++


Actually, many programmers switched to C++ in the 90s just to 
get function overloads and inlining without macros.




Not me. I refused (during the 90's) to use C++ for anything ;-)
(my housemate loved C++ though - to this day, I still don't know 
why..)


If you think C is just fine then I'm not sure why you are 
interested in D.


Cause D is interesting (too)... do I have to choose only one 
language??


I have my own IDE - which I wrote, and i can switch between 
(currently) 7 different languages - with just a single click of 
my mouse button. I'll keep adding more languages that interest me.



The benefits of C, come from C - and only C (and some good 
compiler writers)


Not sure what you mean by that.


I mean C++ was implemented upon the foundation of C - as such, 
C++ was able to take advantage of what that foundation offered.



There is little overhead by using C++ over C if you set your 
project up for that. The only benefits with C these days is 
portability.


(depends on what 'many' means)  - There certinaly are 
'numerous' (what ever that means) projects trying to create a 
better c - which contradicts your assertion.


Which ones are you thinking of?


I looked at several recently  - I can't recall them all .. but 
for starters..


(C2 -- interestingly this seems a lot like D)
http://c2lang.org/site/

(CheckedC - a Microsoft Research Project to 'extend' C)
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/project/checked-c/

Re: Bye bye, fast compilation times

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Monday, 5 February 2018 at 21:27:57 UTC, H. S. Teoh wrote:


Comment out the call to `regex()`, and I get:

--
real0m0.285s
user0m0.262s
sys 0m0.023s
--



regex is not the only one I avoid..

how long you think this takes to compile?
(try ldc2 too ..just for laughs ;-)


import std.net.isemail;

void main()
{
auto checkEmail = "some...@somewhere.com".isEmail();
}

Re: Bye bye, fast compilation times

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Tuesday, 6 February 2018 at 04:09:24 UTC, psychoticRabbit 
wrote:

how long you think this takes to compile?
(try ldc2 too ..just for laughs ;-)


import std.net.isemail;

void main()
{
auto checkEmail = "some...@somewhere.com".isEmail();
}



oh.. and for an even bigger laugh... -O -release  (ldc2 took ~10 
seconds)

Re: An idea for commercial support for D

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Sunday, 4 February 2018 at 08:26:54 UTC, Joakim wrote:
I think you're missing the point entirely: _this is the model 
that the community uses to undermine the corporations_.


I really do think it's the other way around - indeed, it is 
probably too late - as corporations have *already* managed to 
highjack 'open source' for their own means.


Google is probably the best at doing it - having essentially 
highjacked the linux kernel, as well as deploying a variety of 
their own so-called 'open source' projects, in order to push its 
corporate agenda onto an unsuspecting world.


http://firstmonday.org/ojs/index.php/fm/article/view/4050/3271

Facebook does it pretty well too.

Microsoft is still 'working it out', cause they're model of doing 
business came about in very different times ... but they'll 
figure it out soon enough.


And people complain about GPL being viral ... just have a look at 
corporate agenda - which is only ever about dominance and control 
(despite its deceptive rhetoric).


That's why I like D - because corporations haven't yet worked out 
how to highjack it for their own agenda - 'yet' being a keyword.


But some ideas presented in this thread will get them started on 
it, no doubt ;-)

Re: Bye bye, fast compilation times

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Tuesday, 6 February 2018 at 20:11:56 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:


std.string.isEmail() in D1 was a simple function. Maybe regex 
is just the wrong solution for this problem.


[...]



C .. D style. I love it! (bugs and all).

Re: A betterC base

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Thursday, 8 February 2018 at 15:51:38 UTC, Adam D. Ruppe wrote:

On Thursday, 8 February 2018 at 15:43:01 UTC, ixid wrote:
That's been said over and over and the message has not gotten 
through.


It is almost never said! We always play by their terms and 
implicitly concede by saying "but we can avoid it" or "look 
-betterC".


Reddit invades our space, and we fall back. Rust assimilates 
entire worlds, and we fall back. Not again! The line must be 
drawn here! This far, no further!


"Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die 
daily."

 - Napoleon 'D' Bonaparte

Hey... logo idea for Munich 2018 -> Dman wearing a Napoleon hat - 
and riding a horse.


Hey.. it's better than Dman lying on a death bed, dying of a 
stomach ulcer...


I think we should have an annual D parade too...bring out all the 
might of D's machinery..and show the world how powerful we really 
are.

Re: A betterC base

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Friday, 9 February 2018 at 01:55:10 UTC, Benny wrote:


People talk about the need for a clear design focus, leadership 
and ... things go on as before. That is D in a nutshell. People 
doing what they want, whenever and things stay the same. New 
features ( that is always fun ), a few people doing to grunt 
work and all the rest comes down to people complaining because 
they see no reason to put effort into D, as it feels like a 
wast of time. << want to bet that this is the only thing people 
will quote, instead of the rest.




D does NOT need a top-down, authoritarian, corporation like 
vision imposed on it (which would solve all the issues you 
mention).


D is an open source, meritocratic community of people, who drive 
the project forward.


Some (like you apparently) seem to think that a lack of 
authoritarianism puts D at a disadvantage - I simply disagree.


It may mean, that (some)things progress more slowly, and the 
overall vision is less certain - but that's exactly how I like it.


D 'emerges' from its community. It's is not imposed on its 
community.

Re: A betterC base

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Thursday, 8 February 2018 at 23:27:25 UTC, Adam D. Ruppe wrote:

On Thursday, 8 February 2018 at 15:55:09 UTC, JN wrote:
Citation needed on how garbage collection has been a smashing 
success based on its merits rather than the merits of the 
languages that use garbage collection.


Who cares? Even if the success isn't because of GC per se, the 
ubiquity of it in the real world means it certainly isn't a 
deal breaker.


GC is all about time/space tradeoffs. That's all one can say 
about it really.


Yes, the 'ubiquity of it in the real world' (in popular and not 
so popular languages) suggest that most accept this tradeoff, in 
favour of using GC.


But many still don't..

And many that do, might decide otherwise in the future... cause 
I'm not sure how well GC really scales...(in the future, the size 
of the heap might be terabytes..or more).


That's not an argument for not defaulting to GC in D.

It's an argument for when GC in D, could be a deal breaker.

So it's good thing for the D community to consider these people 
as well - rather than saying 'who cares'.


In the end, GC just adds to all the other bloat that's associated 
with programming in the modern era. The more we can reduce bloat, 
the -betterD.


I'm glad there is alot of research in this area, and increasingly 
so - that's really important, cause the story of automatic memory 
management is far from over - even in D it seems.

Re: A betterC base

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Thursday, 8 February 2018 at 21:01:55 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:


That really is an informative article, thanks. The only issue 
with it is that it doesn't cover the newer C++ ref counting 
model, which has proved popular.


Here is another very informative article, outling the 'tradeoff' 
between program 'throughput' and 'latency'.


https://making.pusher.com/golangs-real-time-gc-in-theory-and-practice/

The really important part of their conclusion, however, is that 
there is no such thing as a 'one size fits all' GC implementation:


.. " It is important to understand the underlying GC algorithm in 
order to decide whether it is appropriate for your use-case".


From this, I can only conclude that integrating GC too much into 
the core of the language & library can be problematic for many 
use cases, and not so for many others.

Re: Quora: Why hasn't D started to replace C++?

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Tuesday, 30 January 2018 at 20:45:44 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
wrote:

https://www.quora.com/Why-hasnt-D-started-to-replace-C++

Andrei


Why indeed!

Feature D C C++ C# Java (and this was bacvk in
=
Garbage Collection Yes No No Yes Yes

Functions
=
Function delegates  Yes No No Yes No
Function overloadingYes No Yes Yes Yes
Out function parameters Yes Yes Yes Yes No
Nested functionsYes No No No No
Function literals   Yes No No No No
Dynamic closuresYes No No No No
Covariant return types  Yes No Yes No No

Arrays
==
Lightweight arrays  Yes Yes Yes No No
Resizeable arrays   Yes No No No No
Arrays of bits  Yes No No No No
Built-in stringsYes No No Yes Yes
Array slicing   Yes No No No No
Array bounds checking   Yes No No Yes Yes
Associative arrays  Yes No No No No
Strong typedefs Yes No No No No
Aliases Yes Yes Yes No No

OOP
===
Object Oriented Yes No Yes Yes Yes
Multiple InheritanceNo No Yes No No
Interfaces  Yes No Yes Yes Yes
Operator overloadingYes No Yes Yes No
Modules Yes No Yes Yes Yes
Dynamic class loading   No No No No Yes
Inner classes   No No No No Yes
Covariant return types  Yes No Yes No No

Performance
===
Inline assemblerYes Yes Yes No No
Direct access to hardware   Yes Yes Yes No No
Lightweight objects Yes Yes Yes Yes No
Explicit memory allocation control  Yes Yes Yes No No
Independent of VM   Yes Yes Yes No No
Direct native code gen  Yes Yes Yes No No
Templates   Yes No Yes No No

Reliability
===
Design by Contract  Yes No No No No
Unit testingYes No No No No
Static construction order   Yes No No Yes Yes
Guaranteed initialization   Yes No No Yes Yes
RAIIYes No Yes Yes No
Exception handling  Yes No Yes Yes Yes
try-catch-finally blocksYes No No Yes Yes
Thread synchronization primitives   Yes No No Yes Yes

Compatibility
=
Algol-style syntax  Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes
Enumerated typesYes Yes Yes Yes No
Support all C types Yes Yes No No No
Long double floating point  Yes Yes Yes No No
Complex and Imaginary   Yes Yes No No No
Direct access to C  Yes Yes Yes No No
Use existing debuggers  Yes Yes Yes No No
Struct member alignment control Yes Yes Yes No No
Generates standard object files Yes Yes Yes No No
Macro preprocessor  No Yes Yes No No

Other
=
Conditional compilation Yes Yes Yes Yes No

Re: Quora: Why hasn't D started to replace C++?

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Sunday, 11 February 2018 at 00:03:16 UTC, psychoticRabbit 
wrote:
On Tuesday, 30 January 2018 at 20:45:44 UTC, Andrei 
Alexandrescu wrote:

https://www.quora.com/Why-hasnt-D-started-to-replace-C++

Andrei


Why indeed!

Feature D C C++ C# Java (and this was bacvk in
=


(correction to above line)
Feature D C C++ C# Java (and this was back in 2003)

..2003 ..gee.. that was what..15 years ago.

Re: Quora: Why hasn't D started to replace C++?

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Sunday, 11 February 2018 at 00:15:32 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grostad 
wrote:
On Sunday, 11 February 2018 at 00:06:07 UTC, psychoticRabbit 
wrote:
On Sunday, 11 February 2018 at 00:03:16 UTC, psychoticRabbit 
wrote:
On Tuesday, 30 January 2018 at 20:45:44 UTC, Andrei 
Alexandrescu wrote:

https://www.quora.com/Why-hasnt-D-started-to-replace-C++

Andrei


Why indeed!

Feature D C C++ C# Java (and this was bacvk in
=


(correction to above line)
Feature D C C++ C# Java (and this was back in 2003)

..2003 ..gee.. that was what..15 years ago.


Well, it isn't correct in 2018...


Hence the reason why D hasn't started to replace C++.

i.e C++ continues to evolve..

(except that D got many things right, in the first instance - and 
so D can focus on more important matters ;-)

Re: Quora: Why hasn't D started to replace C++?

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Tuesday, 30 January 2018 at 20:45:44 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
wrote:

https://www.quora.com/Why-hasnt-D-started-to-replace-C++

Andrei


Why indeed!

"I am appalled at the monstrous messes that computer scientists 
can produce under the name of ‘improvements’. It is to efforts 
such as C++ that I here refer. These artifacts are filled with 
frills and features but lack coherence, simplicity, 
understandability and implementability. If computer scientists 
could see that art is at the root of the best science, such ugly 
creatures could never take birth."


"Since C is low level and object orientation is an inherently 
high level concept the result is conceptually incoherent."


[ R.P.Mody - C in Education and Software Engineering - 1991 ]

Re: Quora: Why hasn't D started to replace C++?

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Sunday, 11 February 2018 at 23:00:40 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
Even little ones like char16_t, char32_t, and being able to 
separate digits with single quotes, and larger ones like static 
if and ranges.


D's support for ranges is probably the single most important 
reason why I choose to use D. (lot's of other very good reasons 
too, but not as important as ranges).


When I look at other languages now, the first thing I want to 
know is, does it have integral support for ranges??


"ranges .. improve safety when compared with iterators because 
they never allow invalid pairs of iterators."


http://www.informit.com/articles/printerfriendly/1407357

Re: Quora: Why hasn't D started to replace C++?

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Monday, 12 February 2018 at 05:45:13 UTC, Ali wrote:

C++ is expected to add ranges based on this library
https://github.com/ericniebler/range-v3


Yes, but given the significance of C++, it really should be 
leading.. not following (at snails pace).


C++ simply has too much legacy stuff to contend with..and that 
will continue to hold it back.. forever.


The best C++ can do, is (slowly) think about copying what others 
are doing..to the extent C++ can handle it, and to the extent the 
'committees' agree to doing it.


C++ is like a Jackson Pollock painting - I look at it, and think 
to myself...wtf!


Of course it's all in the eye of the beholder.

Re: Being Positive

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Monday, 12 February 2018 at 23:54:29 UTC, Arun Chandrasekaran 
wrote:
Do you think it will help in reminding people not to post any 
negative things?


No.


Everyone knows the current state of D and this can be improved 
with more volunteers. Even a small topic like some xyz library 
is not up to the mark is being dragged towards argument and 
negativity about D instead of realizing that the issue needs to 
be reported to the respective library author.


It is a human right..to complain ;-)

You want to take away our human rights?? It won't happen ;-)

...doing so on the forum is no big deal as far as I am concerned 
... and if the complaint is important enough, the right people 
tend to here sooner or later. If not, their work gets discredited 
or people improve upon it.


and btw. Complaints aren't always legitimate complaints. People 
mostly see what they wan't to see.



We need great minds from across various industries and 
experiences to strengthen ourselves. So please promote D with 
what it can offer at the moment instead of spreading negative 
sentiment of how it can do certain things with some missing 
crazy syntax sugar, etc. We know such things are being/can be 
worked upon.


D is a wonderful programming language and let's share awesome 
things we do with it.


I think *very* differently, that is, I believe people should 
*NOT* be limited to expressing only the nice fluffy stuff we all 
like to hear.


You need to handle that negativity also, and not stop others from 
expressing it.


Negative emotions are as legitimate as positive emotions, and it 
a human right to express both.

Re: GSOC 2018 - no slots for D

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Tuesday, 13 February 2018 at 01:20:57 UTC, Jakub Łabaj wrote:

https://summerofcode.withgoogle.com/organizations/
Seems like we didn't make it this year :(

Is there any feedback from Google when they don't accept an 
organisation? Do you think that maybe they don't perceive D as 
a viable option or just the projects could have been defined 
better?


Does D need GSoc to attract contibutors?

If so, then Google has achieved exactly what it wants to achieve.

Re: GSOC 2018 - no slots for D

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Tuesday, 13 February 2018 at 01:51:44 UTC, Seb wrote:


To give the bad news positives ones too: I'm currently 
investigating to extend the Research Scholarships [1] the D 
Language Foundation offers to students of the UPB to all 
students.
Nothing official yet, but there could be a DLang Winter of Code 
if everything works out ;-)


[1] https://dlang.org/foundation/upb-scholarship.html


First, great if the D Foundation can take control of this itself, 
and not depend on GSoc.


Second, I don't get it. Are you saying D Foundation currently 
only provides such to students of UPB?

Re: GSOC 2018 - no slots for D

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Tuesday, 13 February 2018 at 02:12:10 UTC, Seb wrote:
On Tuesday, 13 February 2018 at 01:59:16 UTC, psychoticRabbit 
wrote:
Second, I don't get it. Are you saying D Foundation currently 
only provides such to students of UPB?


https://dlang.org/blog/2016/12/05/the-d-language-foundations-scholarship-program/

You gotta start somewhere ;-)


ok.. but I've never heard of UPB. Where is Romania anyway? Is 
that one of those little islands in the pacific?


In any case, I think it would be great if the foundation setup a 
process whereby everyday people can contribute funds to projects. 
Those projects need to be approved and costed. Funds upto those 
'per project costs' get accepted, then contributions are no 
longer accepted for that project - (otherwise contributions will 
exceed the cost of the project).


The projects once approved, could be published for people to see, 
and then people decide if they want to contribute. Then the 
commuinity of contributors essentially get to decide which 
projects are worthwhile - i.e those that get funded by 
contributors.


Essentially, crowd sourcing, and stop replying on big 
corporations to decide what is worthwhile and what is not.

Re: Being Positive

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Tuesday, 13 February 2018 at 02:29:46 UTC, Seb wrote:
On Monday, 12 February 2018 at 23:54:29 UTC, Arun 
Chandrasekaran wrote:
Sorry if I'm hurting someone's sentiment, but is it just me 
who is seeing so much negative trend in the D forum about D 
itself? I don't remember seeing so much negative about Rust on 
rust forum and so on.


Yeah, I think it's a different community.
I'm not sure why this is the case...


it's as you say...it's a different community.

Those communities that believe the community is more important 
than the individual, are the very communities that like to 
shutdown any negativity about that community.


It happens at the levels of countries (North Korea, Russia, 
Syria, Iran, and so many others).


It happens at the level of organisations too (corporate and 
non-corporate), and even at the social community level.


I think the D community is a very different social community, 
where individuals feel free to 'assert' themselves. That is a 
good thing in my opinion.


So negativity is a sign of healthy community (i.e. one that 
doesn't try to exert itself over the individual).


Now I don't equate that negativity with bullying or such things, 
i.e. actions that set out to do harm to others. That cannot be 
tolerated in any community.


But negativity is not harmful, except in those communities that 
want to exert their power over the individual.


This is essentially why negativity does not bother me. It's all a 
matter of perspective.

Re: Being Positive

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Tuesday, 13 February 2018 at 04:29:44 UTC, Nick Sabalausky 
(Abscissa) wrote:


Rust has pretty much gone on record as deliberately using 
social engineering to squelch all disagreement by way of 
drumming out any and all dissenters:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIageYT0Vgg



Hey..that was interesting.

1/3 of them there, just cause they're interested in the community 
side and couldn't care less what language it is.


Here at D, we don't give a stuff about the community, we just 
want a language to solve our problems - and we don't all have the 
same problems.


Ok..that's a little overstated...community is nice too... but 
problems that need to be solved are more important.


Lets ensure we promoting D to those that want to solve problems.

Re: Being Positive

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Tuesday, 13 February 2018 at 04:29:44 UTC, Nick Sabalausky 
(Abscissa) wrote:


Rust has pretty much gone on record as deliberately using 
social engineering to squelch all disagreement by way of 
drumming out any and all dissenters:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIageYT0Vgg



a "friend of the tree"..  timepoint = 13:15

seems like Rust community are incorporating psychological 
manipulation techniques..similar to what scientology does.

Re: Being Positive

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Tuesday, 13 February 2018 at 05:10:29 UTC, psychoticRabbit 
wrote:
On Tuesday, 13 February 2018 at 04:29:44 UTC, Nick Sabalausky 
(Abscissa) wrote:


Rust has pretty much gone on record as deliberately using 
social engineering to squelch all disagreement by way of 
drumming out any and all dissenters:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIageYT0Vgg



a "friend of the tree"..  timepoint = 13:15

seems like Rust community are incorporating psychological 
manipulation techniques..similar to what scientology does.


btw. Mozilla has long had an unusual interest in people 
specifically from the Oregon State University.


https://blog.mozilla.org/firefox/browser-built-with-love-sweat-volunteers/

Emily Dunham (the one in that youtube video, is also a graduate 
of that university - hired by Mozilla on 2015).


Oregon is also considered to be "The First Scientology City".

now I don't want to be too much of conspiracist..but...

Re: Being Positive

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Tuesday, 13 February 2018 at 05:34:01 UTC, psychoticRabbit 
wrote:


btw. Mozilla has long had an unusual interest in people 
specifically from the Oregon State University.


https://blog.mozilla.org/firefox/browser-built-with-love-sweat-volunteers/

Emily Dunham (the one in that youtube video, is also a graduate 
of that university - hired by Mozilla on 2015).


Oregon is also considered to be "The First Scientology City".

now I don't want to be too much of conspiracist..but...


It was also interesting to listen to Emily as she effectively 
endorsed, praised, and encouraged, the Rust communities 
'moderation attack squad' (timepoint: 9:34), and pointing out how 
seriously 'the moderators team' need to take their duties 
(timepoint: 8:55).


Attack squads are in integral component within scientology too - 
although the actions of these squads are justified based on the 
so called 'Fair Game Policy' (instead of 'Code of Conduct'):


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Game_(Scientology)

... and so...the plot thickens..

Re: Being Positive

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Tuesday, 13 February 2018 at 08:08:28 UTC, bauss wrote:
On Tuesday, 13 February 2018 at 01:32:29 UTC, psychoticRabbit 
wrote:

It is a human right..to complain ;-)


Not to be that guy, but technically you have no rights in an 
online community.


You have privileges.


You may have the privilege of participating in an online 
community, sure.


But expressing something 'negative' would fall under the right to 
freedom of thought, opinion, an expression (Article 19 of 
Universal Declaration of Human Rights).


It takes a very special kind of community to recognise that the 
community does not come at the expense of the rights of the 
individual. It also takes a very special kind of person to know 
that the individual does not come at the expense of the rights of 
the community.


Many communities, and individuals, continue to struggle with this 
philosophy - preferring one over the other. That is the real 
cause of conflict, not the expression of negativity.


Personally, I found that youtube video (Life is better with 
Rust's community automation - YouTube) rather disturbing.

Re: Being Positive

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Tuesday, 13 February 2018 at 09:46:14 UTC, Dave Jones wrote:


Arguing, friction, grumbling, it's all a symptom of Ds open 
volunteer based development process IMO.


It's also how democracy works.

Walk into any parliament session, in any democracy, and you will 
see arguing, friction and grumbling.


You won't however, see that in authoritarian countries.

Re: Old but interesting link as to the low adoption reason for D

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Tuesday, 13 February 2018 at 01:46:02 UTC, Token wrote:


D should recognize and embrace its nature as research 
platform/compiler enthusiasts playground favorite.


I think this is a really good point, and one that D should be 
proud of.


That is pretty much how I see D, and I really enjoy seeing how 
people 'play' with it. You get some really interesting outcomes, 
including this one I saw today:


"abc".repeat(1000).joiner.writeln;

https://forum.dlang.org/thread/nmewpndfcyvidcvxc...@forum.dlang.org

Stuff like that comes from playing around.

But.. I would add.. that D already can (and already does) solve a 
great number of real world programming problems, while falling 
short of solving many others.


But modern day demands of programming languages are really 
complex, and getting more and more so by the day...as the world 
seeks to become more and more connected - and 'safer'.


Personally, I think C++ has more challenges to contend with than 
D, in terms of becoming a modern day programming language.

Re: GSOC 2018 - no slots for D

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Tuesday, 13 February 2018 at 13:33:00 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
wrote:

On 02/12/2018 08:20 PM, Jakub Łabaj wrote:

https://summerofcode.withgoogle.com/organizations/
Seems like we didn't make it this year :(

Is there any feedback from Google when they don't accept an 
organisation? Do you think that maybe they don't perceive D as 
a viable option or just the projects could have been defined 
better?


Google does not provide feedback to rejected organizations. Far 
as I can imagine approval depends on a number of imponderables 
such as the person who does the review etc.


GSoC 2018 was not a considerable part of our plans so we are 
not affected negatively.


I'd like to take this opportunity to thank Seb who worked on 
the application. It was stronger than in past years (including 
those when we've been accepted).



Andrei


just out of interest, is that application publicly available?

I just would be interested to see what it was about, that is all.

Re: Being Positive

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Tuesday, 13 February 2018 at 16:04:11 UTC, Abdulhaq wrote:


Psychotic rabbit disturbed by programming related video.
In other news


don't poke the rabbit.

Re: Flow-Design: OOP component programming

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Wednesday, 14 February 2018 at 09:39:20 UTC, Luís Marques 
wrote:
It seems that someone once again rediscovered the benefits of 
component programming, in the context of OOP, but (as usual) 
without the more mathematical and principled approach of 
something like ranges and algorithms:




BTW, I just wrote my DConf proposal. I've been experimenting 
with a different style of not-quite-OOP in a real project and 
so far I'm really happy with the results. I've been making use 
of Jean-Louis' openmethods.d library, as well as other D 
features and techniques. The result is a quite nice balance of 
simplicity, expressiveness and performance. I'm really looking 
forward to telling you all about it :-)


"Flow-Orientation is about tackling complexity at its root cause: 
that´s dependencies."


That's an interesting statement (from that article).

Seems we are getting closer and closer to modelling programming 
in accordance with how the brain programs itself. Kinda of makes 
sense really - nature seemed to work this all out a long, long 
time ago.


Small units. Data just flows in and out. The units don't 'know' 
each other. Their are no explicit dependencies between the units 
themselves (hence neuroplasticity).


Instead, what's important, are pathways by which they can 
communicate (concatenate) their input and output, and the 
subsequent data flows that arise from that collaboration.


In nature, increasing mass (complexity) arises from simple 
components.


If only that were so in the world of programming.

Re: Annoyance with new integer promotion deprecations

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Monday, 19 February 2018 at 02:23:02 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:


This one isn't double size. But google does insert some weird 
fields:




Almost certainly, that 'wierd' stuff is related to googles 
insidious need to track and record EVERYTHING *you* do, so it can 
build an even better profile of you (usually without you even 
knowing it does so), and then, having achieved this objective, it 
switches to it primary objective : to throw even more targeted 
advertising at you.


The human race has become nothing more than fodder for targetted 
advertising.


See... that's the mistake Microsoft made in the 80s and 90s - 
they just didn't understood the psychology of the gift economy, 
and how to manipulate it, and profit from it.


That's the only reason why we're discussing Google mail instead 
of Microsoft mail.

Re: Annoyance with new integer promotion deprecations

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Tuesday, 20 February 2018 at 06:40:25 UTC, Tobias Müller wrote:
It's no wonder that D has so few contributors if they are 
actively scared away.


C'mon... was it really that scary?

If you want more people to contribute, make it as easy for them 
as possible.


and 'easy as possible' is already done for them - just use this 
forum as I do, from this website.


what is a nntp client anyway?

I think I recall using one back in the 90's...but that was so 
long ao...

Annotation of functions

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

I've noticed that Go and Rust annotate functions.

func (in go)
fn (in rust)

I was kind of wondering why they made that choice, given 
compilers in many languages do not.


Would this be a useful feature in D?

Everything else seems to have an annotation (e.g structs, 
classes.) So why not functions?


What are people's thoughts about it?

My first thought is to make it an optional annotation, for the 
benefit of developing source code analysis tools that can 'more 
easily' find functions in source code (i.e. The D compiler can 
just strip it off and do nothing with it.).  That way programmers 
that see no benefit in it, don't have to deal with it.

Re: Annotation of functions

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Tuesday, 20 February 2018 at 12:45:25 UTC, rikki cattermole 
wrote:


string creater() pure {
return "void func() {}";
}

mixin(creator());

That is why. There are plenty of functions, classes and structs 
that simply won't exist in the form of syntax until you execute 
CTFE.


I think I'd fire anyone that wrote functions in that way ;-)

perhaps what I had in mind was a lot simpler.

fn string creater() pure {
return "void func() {}";
}

so now I'm just looking for lines that begin with fn. the mixin 
doesn't matter.


the only reason I thought of this annotation thing, was so I 
could grep a source code file and count how many functions it had 
in it. this seemed the easiest way ;-)


at the moment, that's just not possible - as you mentioned, you 
need a front end to process that kind of information (unless you 
have an annotation).

Re: Annotation of functions

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Tuesday, 20 February 2018 at 12:55:31 UTC, psychoticRabbit 
wrote:

fn string creater() pure {
return "void func() {}";
}

so now I'm just looking for lines that begin with fn. the mixin 
doesn't matter.


oh... I think I might have misunderstood your point ... due to 
not understanding CTFE. Never used it before - 25+ years 
programming ;-)


what does this code even do? i don't understand it. why does it 
even compile?



string creator() pure {
return "void func() {}";
}

mixin(creator());

Re: Which language futures make D overcompicated?

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Friday, 9 February 2018 at 07:54:49 UTC, Suliman wrote:
I like D, but sometimes it's look like for me too complicated. 
Go have a lot of fans even it not simple, but primitive. But 
some D futures make it very hard to learning.


Small list by me:
1. mixins
2. inout
3. too many attributes like: @safe @system @nogc etc

Which language futures by your opinion make D harder?


right now.. compile time function execution ;-)

Re: Annotation of functions

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Tuesday, 20 February 2018 at 12:18:47 UTC, rikki cattermole 
wrote:


So the point is moot.


ok. I've come around... and the point reall is moot.

so.. in that case..another idea...how about a compiler option to 
output a list of functions. (I don't really expect many will warm 
to that idea.)


Does anyone know of any tool that could do such a thing?

I just want of a list of functions from a source code file.

Who would have thought it would be that hard ;-)

Re: Annotation of functions

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Tuesday, 20 February 2018 at 13:40:16 UTC, bauss wrote:


I should probably have put an example usage to show how it's 
used:




This makes we want to go back and program in C again ;-)

(but thanks for taking the time to demo/explain)

Re: Annotation of functions

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Tuesday, 20 February 2018 at 15:26:12 UTC, Adam D. Ruppe wrote:


dmd -X spits out the json file with a list of functions and 
classes and other stuff. Then you can just filter that.




'dmd -X' looks like the perfect solution for my need. thanks.

D source code formatter

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

I rely (heavily) on clang-format in my C code. It save me so much 
effort and has become a vital day to day tool for me.


I was wondering whether D also has a 'reliable' source code 
formatter.

(reliable being a key word there).

Also, if it does, then why is it not included in the distribution 
- given the importance of consistent source code formatting these 
days.

Re: D source code formatter

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Thursday, 22 February 2018 at 04:48:58 UTC, Nicholas Wilson 
wrote:
On Thursday, 22 February 2018 at 04:35:24 UTC, psychoticRabbit 
wrote:
I rely (heavily) on clang-format in my C code. It save me so 
much effort and has become a vital day to day tool for me.


I was wondering whether D also has a 'reliable' source code 
formatter.

(reliable being a key word there).

Also, if it does, then why is it not included in the 
distribution - given the importance of consistent source code 
formatting these days.


look for 'dfmt'


thanks. but do you mean:

dfmt is certainly reliable, so go look for it.
 or
for look for dfmt and work out whether it's reliable.

Re: Annotation of functions

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Tuesday, 20 February 2018 at 15:26:12 UTC, Adam D. Ruppe wrote:
dmd -X spits out the json file with a list of functions and 
classes and other stuff. Then you can just filter that.


do you know why the first and last character of the output from 
"dmd -o- -X somefile.d" are [  and  ] with all the json inbetween.


I'm don't really know json (never had a need to know) but as I 
try different json parsers, the first thing I have to do (before 
giving it to the json parser), is strip off the first and last 
character of that output.


so why put them there in the first place, is my question.

Re: Learning D Programming

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Thursday, 22 February 2018 at 10:31:05 UTC, Lianamelissa wrote:
Hi this is liana working on... big data on aws ..,my question 
is D-programming is useful for the big data developers.


Nice try.

Re: Annotation of functions

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Thursday, 22 February 2018 at 11:32:59 UTC, rjframe wrote:

On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 10:41:48 +, psychoticRabbit wrote:

On Tuesday, 20 February 2018 at 15:26:12 UTC, Adam D. Ruppe 
wrote:
dmd -X spits out the json file with a list of functions and 
classes and other stuff. Then you can just filter that.


do you know why the first and last character of the output 
from "dmd -o- -X somefile.d" are [  and  ] with all the json 
inbetween.


I'm don't really know json (never had a need to know) but as I 
try different json parsers, the first thing I have to do 
(before giving it to the json parser), is strip off the first 
and last character of that output.


so why put them there in the first place, is my question.


They form an array.

`[1, 2, 3]` is an array of numbers, and `[{"a":1}, {"b":2}, 
{"c":3}]` is an array of objects.


here is my point though:

=
module test;

import std.stdio, std.file, std.json;

void main()
{
string myFile= "source.json"; // a file produced by: dmd -o- 
-X source.d


string js = readText(myFile);

JSONValue j = parseJSON( js[1..$-1] ); // why do I have to do 
this??


writefln("%s = %s", j["kind"].str, j["name"].str);
writefln("file = %s", j["file"].str);

}
==

Re: Annotation of functions

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Thursday, 22 February 2018 at 13:17:42 UTC, ag0aep6g wrote:


You don't have to remove the brackets. You just have to process 
the result correctly. It's not an object but an array with an 
object as its first element.




ok. I think I demonstrated that I don't know what I'm doing with 
the json ;-)


thanks for the tips (I tried it and it worked).

Now..I better go off and learn more about parsing json...

Re: Annotation of functions

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Thursday, 22 February 2018 at 14:50:37 UTC, Seb wrote:
On Wednesday, 21 February 2018 at 01:58:17 UTC, psychoticRabbit 
wrote:
On Tuesday, 20 February 2018 at 15:26:12 UTC, Adam D. Ruppe 
wrote:


dmd -X spits out the json file with a list of functions and 
classes and other stuff. Then you can just filter that.




'dmd -X' looks like the perfect solution for my need. thanks.


I don't know what exactly you plan to do, but the AST dump from 
DScanner is usually also quite handy:


https://github.com/dlang-community/D-Scanner#ast-dump

In fact, with libdparse, you don't get it as XML, but as AST:

https://github.com/dlang-community/libdparse

Example:

https://run.dlang.io/is/qZsGDD


I want to do some cyber-security related analysis of D code bases 
- so looking for tools that might assist.


I'll definately go have a look at dscanner and libdparse too.

Thanks for the tip.

Re: Learning D Programming

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Thursday, 22 February 2018 at 14:29:23 UTC, Ali wrote:


this account, seem to be going around programming forums asking 
the same question


https://discuss.ocaml.org/t/ocaml-is-helpful-for-me/1603

not sure what this mean, but .. not a good sign


A company that 'supposedly' provides training on AWS Big Data, 
and then posts an obscure question as to whether D is useful for 
big data developers?


That should raises the first alarm.

Then, they include in their post, a link to some unrecognised 
site.


That should raises the second alarm. (good chance people will go 
to that link too - and who knows what it will try to do)


Then, just to double check, you go to their facebook site, and 
there you will see the typical 'suspcious pictures' of people 
that are 'recommending' them. Those types of pictures and 
comments are always dodgy. So that should have raised the third 
alarm (as if it was needed at this point).


At least 'D' and 'big data' and now correlated in search engines 
;-)

Re: How do you get comfortable with Dlang.org's Forum?

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Friday, 23 February 2018 at 13:47:16 UTC, biocyberman wrote:


If I may say it honestly, and despite the useful 'save unsent 
draft' feature, the forum is by far the most user-unfriendly 
forum platform ever 


So, to your question: "How do you get comfortable with 
Dlang.org's Forum?"


by lowering your expectations ;-)

I don't mean that to be too crtical .. cause I actually find the 
forum works very well for what I expect from it - which is not 
alot ;-)


again.. not trying to be critical here, just pointing out the 
obvious.


The forum is eternally in NNTP compatability mode, which is why 
it doesn't have all those fancy features. I don't see that 
changing anytime soon.


(btw. if you were born after 1990 or so.. so might have to google 
what NNTP is ;-)


If there is one change that I would really like, it's dark theme 
- cause I mostly do stuff at night, with a low lamp, and bright 
white backgrounds are 
really..really...really...really...really...annoying.

Re: How do you get comfortable with Dlang.org's Forum?

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Friday, 23 February 2018 at 18:51:45 UTC, Biocyberman wrote:
I think it has much to do with setting expectation right. 
Haven't used dfeed, I had trouble understanding dlang's forum 
but much less trouble with others.


Well... D users will reach a some critical mass, at some point, 
whereby things will certainly change, and the main discussions 
will then be going on elsewhere - cause this whole 'tied to NNTP' 
thing is kinda backwards, for 21st century.


Till then, we have what we have.

As for editing, I've always though a git like change log would be 
great, so you can edit as much as you want, and your editing 
history is there for all to see, so that it can't be abused.


Pictures would be so nice.

Code formatting would be really nice.

Theme's would be nice (I'm fed up with bright white backgrounds!)

Lot's of other stuff that most new comers would expect ...

But all that and more, will only come in some different forum .. 
not this one.

Re: How do you get comfortable with Dlang.org's Forum?

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Saturday, 24 February 2018 at 01:53:48 UTC, Ali Çehreli wrote:

On 02/23/2018 06:25 AM, psychoticRabbit wrote:

> If there is one change that I would really like, it's dark
theme

I've never needed myself but most browsers allow overriding 
themes.


Ali


yeah..I tried this a while back, but unfortunately it's effect is 
'global', rather than per site.


i'd also like to see D conf videos go dark theme too ;-)

Re: How do you get comfortable with Dlang.org's Forum?

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Saturday, 24 February 2018 at 04:13:15 UTC, Johannes Loher 
wrote:
There are Browser extensions gor this (e.g. 
https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/stylish-custom-themes-for/fjnbnpbmkenffdnngjfgmeleoegfcffe?hl=en)


Hey. thanks for the tip.

though..I just refuse to use chrome ;-)

(in the 90's companies made their name for not being Microsoft. 
As Microsoft wanted to dominate the world. I wonder if that same 
situation exists now, except, now its not being Google).


anyways... a quick search and I discovered something similar for 
firefox.


so I might check that out.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/stylish/

Re: How do you get comfortable with Dlang.org's Forum?

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Saturday, 24 February 2018 at 20:29:34 UTC, Walter Bright 
wrote:


Yeah, the immutability of NNTP posts is a feature, not a bug.


but aren't git changes essentially immutable too?
as long is there is a history of the changes, there is no problem 
with changes.


I'm really only interested in the correct version of the persons 
intention, not some multitude of changes.


It also has the effect of encouraging people to pause a moment 
before hitting [Send], which is definitely a good thing.


yeah right. a good thing if we were robots instead of humans.

NNTP is not the future..it's the past.

Re: How do you get comfortable with Dlang.org's Forum?

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Sunday, 25 February 2018 at 01:49:05 UTC, rikki cattermole 
wrote:

On 25/02/2018 2:31 PM, psychoticRabbit wrote:

NNTP is not the future..it's the past.


Good news, mailing lists will exist long after we're all dead 
and gone.


We don't actually die, cause every atom in our body is billions 
of years old.


Explaining that, is almost as hard as explaining why people still 
use NNTP.

Re: C++ launched its community survey, too

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Tuesday, 27 February 2018 at 15:52:15 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
wrote:

https://isocpp.org/blog/2018/02/new-cpp-foundation-developer-survey-lite-2018-02

Andrei


really, online surveys are dodgy at best.

btw. Bjarne Stroustrup recently received the 2018 Charles Stark 
Draper Prize for Engineering - 
https://www.nae.edu/Activities/Projects/Awards/DraperPrize/DraperWinners/2018Draper.aspx


I think that is dodgy too. Why give someone a prize for creating 
C++. I just don't get it.


It should have gone to the Java developers - cause they deserved 
it.


C++ is the worst thing to have ever come out of computer science!

The only reason it's still with us, is because corporations are 
stuck with it, and force it on us all, cause it's too expensive 
for them to replace.


I want no part of it.

The answer to Q:15 => I'd go back in history and make Stroustrup 
a fluffy dog, or a fluffy cat or something.

Re: D course material

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d]

On Tuesday, 13 March 2018 at 12:39:24 UTC, Dmitry Olshansky wrote:

Hi, folks!

I’m testing waters for a D course at one University for first 
time it’ll be an optional thing. It’s still discussed but may 
very well become a reality.


Before you ask - no, I’m not lecturing and in fact, I didn’t 
suggest D in the first place! Academics are finally seeing 
light in the gloom of 1 year OOP in C++ course having 
underwhelming results.


Now to the point, I remeber Chuck Allison (pardon if I 
misspelled) doing D lectures at Utah Valley University, here:

https://dconf.org/2014/talks/allison.html

There is also Ali’s book. But anything else easily adoptable as 
course material?


—
Dmitry Olshansky


Just make sure it involves problem solving because that is why we 
have brains.


We don't have brains so we can sit through long boring 
presentations and seminars.


Students who program, want to solve problems. Not boring silly 
problems, and not overly complex problems that will take up too 
much of their time - one of the biggest concerns expressed by 
students at my uni, is workload - which never seems to stop 
increasing. And students are really distracted these days too, so 
the problem is compounded. Our new is concerned about the 
increasing rop out rate too, which I suspect is related.


And don't make them all solve the same problem. Give a range of 
problems so they can select something that might interest them.


There's plenty of material out there, that deals with motivating 
students to learn.