Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

2013-12-18 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 17 Dec 2013, at 15:37, Stephen Paul King wrote: Hi Jason, On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 1:27 AM, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 12:16 AM, Stephen Paul King stephe...@provensecure.com wrote: Truth. Truth =/= Proof. Ummm, as I see things: Proof =

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

2013-12-18 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 17 Dec 2013, at 19:32, meekerdb wrote: On 12/17/2013 1:20 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 16 Dec 2013, at 22:14, meekerdb wrote: On 12/16/2013 12:40 PM, LizR wrote: On 17 December 2013 08:06, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: JKC makes a big point of the complete separation of quantum

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

2013-12-18 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 17 Dec 2013, at 19:43, meekerdb wrote: On 12/17/2013 1:33 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 17 Dec 2013, at 00:58, meekerdb wrote: On 12/16/2013 2:05 PM, LizR wrote: On 17 December 2013 10:43, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: Is that another way of saying you don't think Arithmetical

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

2013-12-18 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 17 Dec 2013, at 19:55, meekerdb wrote: On 12/17/2013 1:51 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 17 Dec 2013, at 02:03, meekerdb wrote: On 12/16/2013 4:41 PM, LizR wrote: On 17 December 2013 13:07, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: In a sense, one can be more certain about arithmetical

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

2013-12-18 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 18 Dec 2013, at 00:30, meekerdb wrote: On 12/17/2013 11:39 AM, LizR wrote: On 18 December 2013 07:32, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: But I don't have to believe true=exists. It seems to me this parallels your comment that the difference between maths and matter is that we can

Re: How the banks are stealing our wealth

2013-12-18 Thread spudboy100
It's not just equal rights, its the improvement in living standards that seem to do it (co-mingled with women's rights). I side with Matt Ridley completely, on this. Ridley's an author, and really accurate, I believe. -Original Message- From: LizR lizj...@gmail.com To: everything-list

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

2013-12-18 Thread John Clark
On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 4:00 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: Acording to Bruno Marchal's terminology you will see only one city and one city only; and you will see both Washington and Moscow; therefore Bruno Marchal's terminology is inconsistent in the one pee, two pee, three

Re: How the banks are stealing our wealth

2013-12-18 Thread Telmo Menezes
On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 9:47 AM, Quentin Anciaux allco...@gmail.com wrote: 2013/12/18 Telmo Menezes te...@telmomenezes.com On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 12:46 PM, Quentin Anciaux allco...@gmail.com wrote: 2013/12/17 Telmo Menezes te...@telmomenezes.com On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 9:02 PM,

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

2013-12-18 Thread Quentin Anciaux
2013/12/18 John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 4:00 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: Acording to Bruno Marchal's terminology you will see only one city and one city only; and you will see both Washington and Moscow; therefore Bruno Marchal's terminology is

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

2013-12-18 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 18 Dec 2013, at 01:13, meekerdb wrote: On 12/17/2013 4:09 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 3:55 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: I'll favor it as soon as it provides some surprising but empirically true predictions - the same standard as for every other

Re: How the banks are stealing our wealth

2013-12-18 Thread Telmo Menezes
On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 4:53 PM, Quentin Anciaux allco...@gmail.com wrote: 2013/12/18 Telmo Menezes te...@telmomenezes.com On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 9:47 AM, Quentin Anciaux allco...@gmail.com wrote: 2013/12/18 Telmo Menezes te...@telmomenezes.com On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 12:46 PM,

Re: How the banks are stealing our wealth

2013-12-18 Thread Telmo Menezes
On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 8:15 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: On 18 December 2013 00:34, Telmo Menezes te...@telmomenezes.com wrote: And the policy is generally adjusted to try produce small, but positive inflation. This is because deflation is considered unstable. Inflation is stable

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

2013-12-18 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 18 Dec 2013, at 16:32, John Clark wrote: It's Bruno Marchal not John Clark who throws around personal pronouns like confetti in philosophical discussions about personal identity. You are the one not taking into account the 1p and 3p distinction, and when you do, concludes trivial,

Re: How the banks are stealing our wealth

2013-12-18 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 18 Dec 2013, at 09:47, Quentin Anciaux wrote: Depends on the problem you're considering, I think it can lead to a society with more individual freedoms, for example. I don't think it can... can you give argument how bitcoin would achieve that ? Bitcoin was not deflationist at the

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

2013-12-18 Thread John Clark
On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 12:21 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: You are the one not taking into account the 1p and 3p distinction, For several years now Bruno Marchal has accused John Clark of that, but John Clark would maintain that there is not a single person on the face of the

Re: How the banks are stealing our wealth

2013-12-18 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 18 Dec 2013, at 17:44, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 8:15 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: On 18 December 2013 00:34, Telmo Menezes te...@telmomenezes.com wrote: And the policy is generally adjusted to try produce small, but positive inflation. This is because

Re: How the banks are stealing our wealth

2013-12-18 Thread Quentin Anciaux
2013/12/18 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be On 18 Dec 2013, at 09:47, Quentin Anciaux wrote: Depends on the problem you're considering, I think it can lead to a society with more individual freedoms, for example. I don't think it can... can you give argument how bitcoin would achieve that

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

2013-12-18 Thread Jason Resch
For someone who demands to be quoted in full, you sure cherry-picked pieces from Bruno's e-mail. How telling it is that you erased the following questions: Bruno: The question is: is it enough correct so that you would please us in answering step 4. If not: what is incorrect. John Clark: (No

Re: How the banks are stealing our wealth

2013-12-18 Thread LizR
On 19 December 2013 08:01, Quentin Anciaux allco...@gmail.com wrote: 2013/12/18 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be On 18 Dec 2013, at 09:47, Quentin Anciaux wrote: Depends on the problem you're considering, I think it can lead to a society with more individual freedoms, for example. I don't

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

2013-12-18 Thread LizR
On 19 December 2013 08:05, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote: For someone who demands to be quoted in full, you sure cherry-picked pieces from Bruno's e-mail. How telling it is that you erased the following questions: Bruno: The question is: is it enough correct so that you would

Re: It's really all math

2013-12-18 Thread LizR
That looks familiar. Have you posted it before? (Or maybe I just saw a cartoon like it once...) Because when you consider it, there are really only a few jokes, and some can be considered as basically just elaborations of simpler ones. ...skipping to the end, Jerry whacks Tom with a frying pan

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

2013-12-18 Thread Stephen Paul King
Hi LizR, I would like to say that as a philosopher I have one problem with Bruno's assumptions: There is no explanation for how any form of change and interaction obtains. This is the main problem that I have with Plato's theory of Forms, and since Bruno's seems to be using a concept

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

2013-12-18 Thread LizR
On 19 December 2013 09:57, Stephen Paul King stephe...@provensecure.comwrote: Hi LizR, I would like to say that as a philosopher I have one problem with Bruno's assumptions: There is no explanation for how any form of change and interaction obtains. This is the main problem that I have

Re: How the banks are stealing our wealth

2013-12-18 Thread Quentin Anciaux
2013/12/18 LizR lizj...@gmail.com On 19 December 2013 08:01, Quentin Anciaux allco...@gmail.com wrote: 2013/12/18 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be On 18 Dec 2013, at 09:47, Quentin Anciaux wrote: Depends on the problem you're considering, I think it can lead to a society with more

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

2013-12-18 Thread Stephen Paul King
No, LizR. I reject the Laplacean vision that is used to interpret the mathematical theories. SR, GR and QM, as mathematical models, are immune from my critique. Newtonian mechanics, while a useful tool to use to build bridges and rockets, is problematic as it implies the Laplacean vision of the

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

2013-12-18 Thread LizR
On 19 December 2013 10:11, Stephen Paul King stephe...@provensecure.comwrote: No, LizR. I reject the Laplacean vision that is used to interpret the mathematical theories. SR, GR and QM, as mathematical models, are immune from my critique. Newtonian mechanics, while a useful tool to use to

Re: How the banks are stealing our wealth

2013-12-18 Thread LizR
On 19 December 2013 10:09, Quentin Anciaux allco...@gmail.com wrote: 2013/12/18 LizR lizj...@gmail.com On 19 December 2013 08:01, Quentin Anciaux allco...@gmail.com wrote: 2013/12/18 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be On 18 Dec 2013, at 09:47, Quentin Anciaux wrote: Depends on the problem

Re: Minds, Machines and Gödel

2013-12-18 Thread LizR
If this is a proof of the falsity of mechanism, is there any chance of a precis? :-) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to

Re: How the banks are stealing our wealth

2013-12-18 Thread Telmo Menezes
On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 10:09 PM, Quentin Anciaux allco...@gmail.com wrote: 2013/12/18 LizR lizj...@gmail.com On 19 December 2013 08:01, Quentin Anciaux allco...@gmail.com wrote: 2013/12/18 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be On 18 Dec 2013, at 09:47, Quentin Anciaux wrote: Depends on the

Re: How the banks are stealing our wealth

2013-12-18 Thread Quentin Anciaux
Le 18 déc. 2013 22:31, LizR lizj...@gmail.com a écrit : On 19 December 2013 10:09, Quentin Anciaux allco...@gmail.com wrote: 2013/12/18 LizR lizj...@gmail.com On 19 December 2013 08:01, Quentin Anciaux allco...@gmail.com wrote: 2013/12/18 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be On 18 Dec 2013,

Re: How the banks are stealing our wealth

2013-12-18 Thread Quentin Anciaux
Le 18 déc. 2013 22:37, Telmo Menezes te...@telmomenezes.com a écrit : On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 10:09 PM, Quentin Anciaux allco...@gmail.com wrote: 2013/12/18 LizR lizj...@gmail.com On 19 December 2013 08:01, Quentin Anciaux allco...@gmail.com wrote: 2013/12/18 Bruno Marchal

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

2013-12-18 Thread Stephen Paul King
Hi LizR, On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 4:28 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: On 19 December 2013 10:11, Stephen Paul King stephe...@provensecure.comwrote: No, LizR. I reject the Laplacean vision that is used to interpret the mathematical theories. SR, GR and QM, as mathematical models, are

Re: How the banks are stealing our wealth

2013-12-18 Thread LizR
On 19 December 2013 10:44, Quentin Anciaux allco...@gmail.com wrote: Le 18 déc. 2013 22:37, Telmo Menezes te...@telmomenezes.com a écrit : This is often repeated but not true. The blockchain can be truncated and old transaction discarded. What about the remaining of what I said? In that

Re: How the banks are stealing our wealth

2013-12-18 Thread Quentin Anciaux
Le 18 déc. 2013 23:21, LizR lizj...@gmail.com a écrit : On 19 December 2013 10:44, Quentin Anciaux allco...@gmail.com wrote: Le 18 déc. 2013 22:37, Telmo Menezes te...@telmomenezes.com a écrit : This is often repeated but not true. The blockchain can be truncated and old transaction

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

2013-12-18 Thread LizR
On 19 December 2013 10:45, Stephen Paul King stephe...@provensecure.comwrote: Hi LizR, On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 4:28 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: On 19 December 2013 10:11, Stephen Paul King stephe...@provensecure.comwrote: No, LizR. I reject the Laplacean vision that is used to

Re: How the banks are stealing our wealth

2013-12-18 Thread LizR
On 19 December 2013 11:24, Quentin Anciaux allco...@gmail.com wrote: This is often repeated but not true. The blockchain can be truncated and old transaction discarded. What about the remaining of what I said? In that case, too, the blockchain was truncated and the old transaction

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

2013-12-18 Thread meekerdb
On 12/18/2013 1:05 PM, LizR wrote: On 19 December 2013 09:57, Stephen Paul King stephe...@provensecure.com mailto:stephe...@provensecure.com wrote: Hi LizR, I would like to say that as a philosopher I have one problem with Bruno's assumptions: There is no explanation for how

Re: How the banks are stealing our wealth

2013-12-18 Thread Telmo Menezes
On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 10:31 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: On 19 December 2013 10:09, Quentin Anciaux allco...@gmail.com wrote: 2013/12/18 LizR lizj...@gmail.com On 19 December 2013 08:01, Quentin Anciaux allco...@gmail.com wrote: 2013/12/18 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be On 18 Dec

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

2013-12-18 Thread Stephen Paul King
Hi LizR, On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 5:31 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: On 19 December 2013 10:45, Stephen Paul King stephe...@provensecure.comwrote: Hi LizR, On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 4:28 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: On 19 December 2013 10:11, Stephen Paul King

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

2013-12-18 Thread Stephen Paul King
Kevin Knuth's talk: http://pirsa.org/10050054/ On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 6:16 PM, Stephen Paul King stephe...@provensecure.com wrote: Hi LizR, On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 5:31 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: On 19 December 2013 10:45, Stephen Paul King stephe...@provensecure.comwrote: Hi

Re: Minds, Machines and Gödel

2013-12-18 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
On 19 December 2013 08:32, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: If this is a proof of the falsity of mechanism, is there any chance of a precis? :-) The argument has been restated with elaboration by Penrose, and has been extensively criticised. http://www.iep.utm.edu/lp-argue/ -- Stathis

Re: How the banks are stealing our wealth

2013-12-18 Thread LizR
On 19 December 2013 12:13, Telmo Menezes te...@telmomenezes.com wrote: All the transactions that occurred so far are registered in a file that is shared between the nodes in the network. New transactions are broadcast to many nodes. One of these nodes is going to be lucky enough to find a

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

2013-12-18 Thread LizR
On 19 December 2013 12:13, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 12/18/2013 1:05 PM, LizR wrote: On 19 December 2013 09:57, Stephen Paul King stephe...@provensecure.comwrote: Hi LizR, I would like to say that as a philosopher I have one problem with Bruno's assumptions: There

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

2013-12-18 Thread meekerdb
On 12/18/2013 3:16 PM, Stephen Paul King wrote: My point is not about any kind of specialness, *the same condition follows for any frame that is consistent with the math*. There is no such thing, mathematically, as a view from nowhere or, equivalently, for a god's eye point of view. God is

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

2013-12-18 Thread Stephen Paul King
Calling a sequential ordering of events time does not make a sequence of events spring into being. It may in our heads but the physical world doesn't work that way... Time would emerge right along with space from interactions between events. We do not need to specify the space and time before

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

2013-12-18 Thread LizR
On 19 December 2013 12:16, Stephen Paul King stephe...@provensecure.comwrote: What else is a mathematical theory, such as SR, GR and QM, for but to ...perform a particular calculation? This is the problem, we figure out ways to make ourselves believe that we can know all that there is to

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

2013-12-18 Thread meekerdb
On 12/18/2013 3:51 PM, Stephen Paul King wrote: Calling a sequential ordering of events time does not make a sequence of events spring into being. ?? Calling a large grey pachyderm an elephant does not make a large grey pachyderm spring into being either - but on the other hand it was already

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

2013-12-18 Thread LizR
On 19 December 2013 12:51, Stephen Paul King stephe...@provensecure.comwrote: Calling a sequential ordering of events time does not make a sequence of events spring into being. It may in our heads but the physical world doesn't work that way... Time would emerge right along with space from

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

2013-12-18 Thread Jason Resch
On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 3:11 PM, Stephen Paul King stephe...@provensecure.com wrote: No, LizR. I reject the Laplacean vision that is used to interpret the mathematical theories. SR, GR and QM, as mathematical models, are immune from my critique. Special Relativity leaves no room for this,

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

2013-12-18 Thread Stephen Paul King
Ever attempt to do a particular calculation with an actual infinite dimensional Hilbert space? Why not? Sure, you can mod out (using symmetries and other tricks) all of the infinite dimensions except some finite subset, but that is the act that introduces the bias that I am pointing at! The

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

2013-12-18 Thread LizR
On 19 December 2013 13:24, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote: Consider this: If there were two present moments one day apart, that moved along in parallel, would you have any way of knowing? Then what if there were a million co-moving presents? Then what if all present moment's

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

2013-12-18 Thread Stephen Paul King
On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 6:55 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: On 19 December 2013 12:16, Stephen Paul King stephe...@provensecure.comwrote: What else is a mathematical theory, such as SR, GR and QM, for but to ...perform a particular calculation? This is the problem, we figure out ways

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

2013-12-18 Thread meekerdb
On 12/18/2013 4:27 PM, Stephen Paul King wrote: Ever attempt to do a particular calculation with an actual infinite dimensional Hilbert space? Sure. Why not? Sure, you can mod out (using symmetries and other tricks) all of the infinite dimensions except some finite subset, You can

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

2013-12-18 Thread LizR
On 19 December 2013 13:35, Stephen Paul King stephe...@provensecure.comwrote: On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 6:55 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: On 19 December 2013 12:16, Stephen Paul King stephe...@provensecure.comwrote: What else is a mathematical theory, such as SR, GR and QM, for but

Re: How can a grown man be an atheist ?

2013-12-18 Thread Stephen Paul King
Hi Brent, On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 8:01 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 12/18/2013 4:27 PM, Stephen Paul King wrote: Ever attempt to do a particular calculation with an actual infinite dimensional Hilbert space? Sure. Why not? Sure, you can mod out (using symmetries