John,
On 26 May 2013, at 00:54, John Mikes wrote:
Bruno and others:
did you read
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/do_the_math/2013/05/yitang_zhang_twin_primes_conjecture_a_huge_discovery_about_prime_numbers.single.html
the information about prof. Zhang's discovery (U of New
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn23595-weinsteins-theory-of-everything-is-probably-nothing.html
Brent
On 5/25/2013 3:54 PM, John Mikes wrote:
Bruno and others:
did you read
On 27 Sep 2012, at 18:46, meekerdb wrote:
On 9/27/2012 1:19 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 26 Sep 2012, at 19:29, meekerdb wrote:
On 9/25/2012 9:51 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Sep 25, 2012, at 11:05 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net
wrote:
snip
So you mean if some mathematical
On 26 Sep 2012, at 19:29, meekerdb wrote:
On 9/25/2012 9:51 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Sep 25, 2012, at 11:05 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
snip
So you mean if some mathematical object implies a contradiction it
doesn't exist, e.g. the largest prime number. But then of
On 9/27/2012 1:19 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 26 Sep 2012, at 19:29, meekerdb wrote:
On 9/25/2012 9:51 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Sep 25, 2012, at 11:05 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
snip
So you mean if some mathematical object implies a contradiction it doesn't exist,
On 9/25/2012 9:51 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Sep 25, 2012, at 11:05 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 9/25/2012 8:54 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Sep 25, 2012, at 10:27 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 9/25/2012 4:07 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
Yes. If we cannot prove that
On Sep 26, 2012, at 12:29 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 9/25/2012 9:51 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Sep 25, 2012, at 11:05 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 9/25/2012 8:54 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Sep 25, 2012, at 10:27 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net
wrote:
On 9/26/2012 12:11 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Sep 26, 2012, at 12:29 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 9/25/2012 9:51 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Sep 25, 2012, at 11:05 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 9/25/2012 8:54 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Sep 25, 2012, at 10:27
On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 2:33 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 9/26/2012 12:11 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Sep 26, 2012, at 12:29 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 9/25/2012 9:51 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Sep 25, 2012, at 11:05 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net
On 9/26/2012 2:53 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 2:33 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net
mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 9/26/2012 12:11 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Sep 26, 2012, at 12:29 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net
mailto:meeke...@verizon.net
On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 5:01 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 9/26/2012 2:53 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 2:33 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 9/26/2012 12:11 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Sep 26, 2012, at 12:29 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net
the end. -Woody Allen
- Receiving the following content -
From: Stephen P. King
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2012-09-24, 10:42:12
Subject: Re: Prime Numbers
On 9/24/2012 9:46 AM, Roger Clough wrote:
God's ideas is fine. The numbers and arithmetic etc. can inhere in
some
On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 7:35 AM, Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote:
Hi Stephen P. King
Yes, I think that the structures and
attributes of matter are provided
by a creator (the All, the supreme
monad, or God). Plato used the analogy
of geometrical shapes for his structures.
But if
On 9/25/2012 10:24 AM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 7:35 AM, Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net
mailto:rclo...@verizon.net wrote:
Hi Stephen P. King
Yes, I think that the structures and
attributes of matter are provided
by a creator (the All, the supreme
On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 5:37 PM, Stephen P. King stephe...@charter.netwrote:
On 9/25/2012 10:24 AM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 7:35 AM, Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote:
Hi Stephen P. King
Yes, I think that the structures and
attributes of matter are provided
by
On 9/25/2012 7:07 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 5:37 PM, Stephen P. King
stephe...@charter.net mailto:stephe...@charter.net wrote:
On 9/25/2012 10:24 AM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 7:35 AM, Roger Clough
rclo...@verizon.net
On 9/25/2012 4:07 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
Yes. If we cannot prove that their existence is self-contradictory
Propositions can be self contradictory, but how can existence of something be
self-contradictory?
Brent
then we should consider them as possible. Just because I cannot experience
On Sep 25, 2012, at 10:27 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 9/25/2012 4:07 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
Yes. If we cannot prove that their existence is self-contradictory
Propositions can be self contradictory, but how can existence of
something be self-contradictory?
Brent
On 9/25/2012 8:54 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Sep 25, 2012, at 10:27 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 9/25/2012 4:07 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
Yes. If we cannot prove that their existence is self-contradictory
Propositions can be self contradictory, but how can existence of
On Sep 25, 2012, at 11:05 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 9/25/2012 8:54 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Sep 25, 2012, at 10:27 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 9/25/2012 4:07 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
Yes. If we cannot prove that their existence is self-contradictory
content -
From: Bruno Marchal
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2012-09-23, 03:42:03
Subject: Re: Prime Numbers
On 22 Sep 2012, at 22:10, Stephen P. King wrote:
On 9/22/2012 7:32 AM, Roger Clough wrote:
How could mathematics be fiction ?
If so, then we could simply say that 2+2=5
are always real (in the philosophical sense).
Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net
9/24/2012
Forever is a long time, especially near the end. -Woody Allen
- Receiving the following content -
From: Bruno Marchal
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2012-09-23, 03:42:03
Subject: Re: Prime
.
Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net
9/24/2012
Forever is a long time, especially near the end. -Woody Allen
- Receiving the following content -
From: Stephen P. King
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2012-09-22, 16:10:38
Subject: Re: Prime Numbers
On 9/22/2012 7:32 AM, Roger
On 24 Sep 2012, at 12:39, Roger Clough wrote:
Hi Bruno Marchal
Numbers are not in spacetime, that is, are not at location r at time
t.
So they are ideas,
God's ideas? Then I am OK. The comp God is arithmetical truth, so this
works.
they are not physical.
OK.
To be physical
Clough, rclo...@verizon.net
9/24/2012
Forever is a long time, especially near the end. -Woody Allen
- Receiving the following content -
From: Bruno Marchal
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2012-09-24, 09:12:29
Subject: Re: Prime Numbers
On 24 Sep 2012, at 12:39, Roger Clough wrote
On 9/24/2012 9:46 AM, Roger Clough wrote:
God's ideas is fine. The numbers and arithmetic etc. can inhere in
some mind. The numbers are (idealistically) real, as I think
all arithmetic must be. For it is true whether known or
not. At least as you stay with common numbers and arithmetic.
Pretty
On 22 Sep 2012, at 22:10, Stephen P. King wrote:
On 9/22/2012 7:32 AM, Roger Clough wrote:
How could mathematics be fiction ?
If so, then we could simply say that 2+2=5 because it's saturday.
How could we have a world we many minds can, on rare occasions, come
to complete agreement if that
On 9/23/2012 3:42 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 22 Sep 2012, at 22:10, Stephen P. King wrote:
On 9/22/2012 7:32 AM, Roger Clough wrote:
How could mathematics be fiction ?
If so, then we could simply say that 2+2=5 because it's saturday.
How could we have a world we many minds can, on rare
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2012-09-21, 09:20:41
Subject: Re: Prime Numbers
Just to avoid confusion, this sentence:
I would say that mathematics is just very tightly plotted fiction where so many
details of the story are known up front that the plot can only progress in very
specific
or vice versa.
Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net
9/22/2012
Forever is a long time, especially near the end. -Woody Allen
- Receiving the following content -
From: Terren Suydam
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2012-09-21, 12:29:56
Subject: Re: Prime Numbers
On Fri, Sep 21, 2012 at 8:40
- Receiving the following content -
From: meekerdb
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2012-09-21, 13:30:03
Subject: Re: Prime Numbers
On 9/21/2012 5:40 AM, Rex Allen wrote:
On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 11:50 PM, Terren Suydam terren.suy...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 10:19 PM, Rex Allen
On 21 Sep 2012, at 19:17, meekerdb wrote:
On 9/21/2012 1:22 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 20 Sep 2012, at 20:14, meekerdb wrote:
On 9/20/2012 10:31 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 20 Sep 2012, at 18:14, meekerdb wrote:
On 9/20/2012 2:05 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
A modal logic of probability
On 9/22/2012 7:32 AM, Roger Clough wrote:
How could mathematics be fiction ?
If so, then we could simply say that 2+2=5 because it's saturday.
How could we have a world we many minds can, on rare occasions, come to
complete agreement if that where the case? Perhaps it is true that 2+2=4
On 20 Sep 2012, at 20:14, meekerdb wrote:
On 9/20/2012 10:31 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 20 Sep 2012, at 18:14, meekerdb wrote:
On 9/20/2012 2:05 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
A modal logic of probability is given by the behavior of the
probability one. In Kripke terms, P(x) = 1 in world
On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 11:50 PM, Terren Suydam terren.suy...@gmail.comwrote:
On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 10:19 PM, Rex Allen rexallen31...@gmail.com
wrote:
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 1:36 PM, Terren Suydam terren.suy...@gmail.com
wrote:
Rex,
Do you have a non-platonist explanation for
On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 12:27 AM, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sep 18, 2012, at 9:19 PM, Rex Allen rexallen31...@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 1:36 PM, Terren Suydam terren.suy...@gmail.com
terren.suy...@gmail.com wrote:
Rex,
Do you have a non-platonist
On Sep 21, 2012, at 8:13 AM, Rex Allen rexallen31...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 12:27 AM, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com
wrote:
On Sep 18, 2012, at 9:19 PM, Rex Allen rexallen31...@gmail.com
wrote:
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 1:36 PM, Terren Suydam terren.suy...@gmail.com
On Fri, Sep 21, 2012 at 8:40 AM, Rex Allen rexallen31...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 11:50 PM, Terren Suydam terren.suy...@gmail.com
wrote:
I'm curious about what a plausible fictionalist account of the
Mandelbrot set could be. Is fictionalism the same as constructivism,
or the
On 9/21/2012 1:22 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 20 Sep 2012, at 20:14, meekerdb wrote:
On 9/20/2012 10:31 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 20 Sep 2012, at 18:14, meekerdb wrote:
On 9/20/2012 2:05 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
A modal logic of probability is given by the behavior of the probability
On 9/21/2012 5:40 AM, Rex Allen wrote:
On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 11:50 PM, Terren Suydam terren.suy...@gmail.com
mailto:terren.suy...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 10:19 PM, Rex Allen rexallen31...@gmail.com
mailto:rexallen31...@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012
On 9/21/2012 8:59 AM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Sep 21, 2012, at 8:13 AM, Rex Allen rexallen31...@gmail.com
mailto:rexallen31...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 12:27 AM, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com
mailto:jasonre...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sep 18, 2012, at 9:19 PM, Rex Allen
Just to avoid confusion, this sentence:
*I would say that mathematics is just very tightly plotted fiction where so
many details of the story are known up front that the plot can only
progress in very specific ways if it is to remain consistent and believable
to the reader.*
Should probably be:
On Fri, Sep 21, 2012 at 1:55 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 9/21/2012 8:59 AM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Sep 21, 2012, at 8:13 AM, Rex Allen rexallen31...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 12:27 AM, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.comwrote:
On Sep 18, 2012, at 9:19 PM,
On 9/21/2012 12:56 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Fri, Sep 21, 2012 at 1:55 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net
mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 9/21/2012 8:59 AM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Sep 21, 2012, at 8:13 AM, Rex Allen rexallen31...@gmail.com
mailto:rexallen31...@gmail.com
On 19 Sep 2012, at 21:51, Stephen P. King wrote:
On 9/19/2012 2:39 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
Dear Bruno,
Your remarks raise an interesting question: Could it be that
both the object and the means to generate (or perceive) it are of
equal importance ontologically?
Yes. It comes from
On 9/20/2012 2:05 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
A modal logic of probability is given by the behavior of the probability one. In
Kripke terms, P(x) = 1 in world alpha means that x is realized in all worlds accessible
from alpha, and (key point) that we are not in a cul-de-sac world.
What does
On 20 Sep 2012, at 18:14, meekerdb wrote:
On 9/20/2012 2:05 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
A modal logic of probability is given by the behavior of the
probability one. In Kripke terms, P(x) = 1 in world alpha means
that x is realized in all worlds accessible from alpha, and (key
point) that
On 18 Sep 2012, at 18:02, meekerdb wrote:
On 9/18/2012 8:13 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 17 Sep 2012, at 22:25, meekerdb wrote:
But did anybody think z' = z^2 + c was interesting before that?
Yes. This was known by people like Fatou and Julia, in the early
1900.
I knew they
On 9/19/2012 8:39 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 18 Sep 2012, at 18:02, meekerdb wrote:
On 9/18/2012 8:13 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 17 Sep 2012, at 22:25, meekerdb wrote:
But did anybody think z' = z^2 + c was interesting before that?
Yes. This was known by people like Fatou and Julia,
On 19 Sep 2012, at 17:03, Stephen P. King wrote:
On 9/19/2012 8:39 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 18 Sep 2012, at 18:02, meekerdb wrote:
On 9/18/2012 8:13 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 17 Sep 2012, at 22:25, meekerdb wrote:
But did anybody think z' = z^2 + c was interesting before that?
On 9/19/2012 2:39 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
Dear Bruno,
Your remarks raise an interesting question: Could it be that both
the object and the means to generate (or perceive) it are of equal
importance ontologically?
Yes. It comes from the embedding of the subject in the objects, that
any
On 17 Sep 2012, at 22:25, meekerdb wrote:
But did anybody think z' = z^2 + c was interesting before that?
Yes. This was known by people like Fatou and Julia, in the early 1900.
Iterating analytical complex functions leads to the Mandelbrot fractal
sets, or similar.
The computer has
On 9/18/2012 8:13 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 17 Sep 2012, at 22:25, meekerdb wrote:
But did anybody think z' = z^2 + c was interesting before that?
Yes. This was known by people like Fatou and Julia, in the early 1900.
I knew they considered what are now called fractal sets, but not
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 1:36 PM, Terren Suydam terren.suy...@gmail.comwrote:
Rex,
Do you have a non-platonist explanation for the discovery of the
Mandelbrot set and the infinite complexity therein?
I find fictionalism to be the most plausible view of mathematics, with all
that implies for
On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 10:19 PM, Rex Allen rexallen31...@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 1:36 PM, Terren Suydam terren.suy...@gmail.com
wrote:
Rex,
Do you have a non-platonist explanation for the discovery of the
Mandelbrot set and the infinite complexity therein?
I find
On Sep 18, 2012, at 9:19 PM, Rex Allen rexallen31...@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 1:36 PM, Terren Suydam terren.suy...@gmail.com
wrote:
Rex,
Do you have a non-platonist explanation for the discovery of the
Mandelbrot set and the infinite complexity therein?
I find
On 9/18/2012 9:27 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
The unreasonable effectiveness of math in the physical sciences is yet further support
if Platonism.
I don't see that this follows. If we invent language, including mathematics, to describe
our theories of the world that explains their effectiveness.
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 12:27 AM, Rex Allen rexallen31...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 6:10 PM, Stephen P. King stephe...@charter.netwrote:
HI Rex,
Nice post! Could you riff a bit on what the number PHI tells us about
this characteristic. How is it that it seems that our
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 2:05 AM, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote:
I think an easier way to intuit prime numbers that can't be represented as
rectangles, only a 1-wide lines.
While the concept of primes is straight forward, there is an unending set
of not-so-obvious facts that we
Rex,
Do you have a non-platonist explanation for the discovery of the
Mandelbrot set and the infinite complexity therein? How can you make
sense of that in terms of the constructivist point of view that you
are (I think) compelled to take if you argue against arithmetical
platonism? It seems
On 9/17/2012 10:36 AM, Terren Suydam wrote:
Rex,
Do you have a non-platonist explanation for the discovery of the
Mandelbrot set and the infinite complexity therein? How can you make
sense of that in terms of the constructivist point of view
How can you make sense of it otherwise. The
I would say computers were the tool that allowed us to see it, like a
microscope allowed us to see bacteria, and a telescope stars.
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 3:14 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 9/17/2012 10:36 AM, Terren Suydam wrote:
Rex,
Do you have a non-platonist explanation
But did anybody think z' = z^2 + c was interesting before that?
Bretn
On 9/17/2012 1:17 PM, Terren Suydam wrote:
I would say computers were the tool that allowed us to see it, like a
microscope allowed us to see bacteria, and a telescope stars.
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 3:14 PM,
Benoit Mandelbrot did. But what does interesting have to do with it?
Did anyone think that empty patch of sky was interesting before
Hubble turned it into one of the most amazing photos ever taken?
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 4:25 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
But did anybody think z' =
On 9/17/2012 2:45 PM, Terren Suydam wrote:
Benoit Mandelbrot did.
I wasn't aware of that. Did he have a proof of the fractal nature of the set before he
calculated it?
Brent
But what does interesting have to do with it?
Did anyone think that empty patch of sky was interesting before
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 6:52 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote:
On 9/17/2012 2:45 PM, Terren Suydam wrote:
Benoit Mandelbrot did.
I wasn't aware of that. Did he have a proof of the fractal nature of the
set before he calculated it?
Brent
I don't know. I doubt it, I'm not even sure
On 9/16/2012 3:43 PM, Rex Allen wrote:
It seems to me that numbers are based on our ability to judge relative
magnitudes:
Which is bigger, which is closer, which is heavier, etc.
Many animals have this ability - called numeracy. Humans differ only
in the degree to which it is developed, and
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 6:10 PM, Stephen P. King stephe...@charter.netwrote:
HI Rex,
Nice post! Could you riff a bit on what the number PHI tells us about
this characteristic. How is it that it seems that our perceptions of the
world find anything that is close to a PHI valued
Touche.
But I don't believe (in?) it - I am agnostic. Nonbeliever.
(SONG: I lost my turf in San Francisco)
J
On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 10:36 PM, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.comwrote:
On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 8:07 AM, John Mikes jami...@gmail.com wrote:
Stathis wrote (to Craig):
But you
On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 8:07 AM, John Mikes jami...@gmail.com wrote:
Stathis wrote (to Craig):
But you believe that the neurochemicals do things contrary to what
chemists would predict, for example an ion channel opening or closing
without any cause such as a change in transmembrane potential
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