but that doesn't make it
nonsense. The supernova that occurs at a million-light year distant galaxy
is objective reality, even though our subjective reality is that the
supernova has not occurred. We have to wait a million years to make the
discovery.
Norman Samish
Bruno,
You speak of "God." Could you define what you, as a logician, mean?
Thanks,
Norman
~~
An informal, but (hopefully) rigorous and complete, argument showing that
physics is derivable from comp. That argument is not constructive. Its e
asyness comes from
Bruno,
I don't know what you mean by this comment. Could you please go into
more detail? I realize this is speculation, nevertheless I'd like to know
what your speculation is. Thanks,
Norman Samish
~~~
- Original Message -
This is a teaser. Why did Tegmark's paper receive Dishonorable Mention?
Who is Godfrey?
- Original Message -
From: "Saibal Mitra" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "everything"
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 6:14 AM
Subject: How did it all begin?
http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0508429
Tegmark
to my regret.
I don't think that was the reason for the dishonorable mention,
though! I surely wasn't heard about it..
As to whom am I? Still trying to find out...
Regards,
Godfrey Kurtz
(New Brunswick, NJ)
~~
-Original Message-
From: Norman Sam
". It follows that it is Eternal, without beginning or end.
IMHO, Tegmark's paper, like the rest of his papers, is not worth reading
if only because they misdirect thoughts more than they inform thoughts.
Onward!
Stephen
~~~~~~
- Original Message -
Hi Saibal,
While my simple mind believes that "mathematical existence = physical
existence," I do not assume that "we owe our existence to the mere existence
of the algorithm, not a machine that executes it."
To me, the reason that mathematical existence means physical existence
is that
d at faster-than-light or infinite speed, maybe
it could, in principle, simulate the universe. However, this isn't
possible. Does this mean that the Church Thesis, hence computationalism,
is, in reality, false?
Norman Samish
niverse.
Norman
- Original Message -
From: "Saibal Mitra" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Norman Samish" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "everything"
Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:11 AM
Subject: Re: What Computationalism is and w
rstand it with less effort.
Norman
~~~- Original Message - From: "John M"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: "Norman Samish"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 11:39
AMSubject: Re: What Computationalism is and what it is
*not*Norman, I wonder which one do you prefer:The unprovable
proof, or The Hypothetical reality?John
M
over
again. How strange and pointless it all seems.
Norman Samish
~
- Original Message -
From: ""Hal Finney"" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 3:57 PM
Subject: Re: Let
Norman Samish writes:
If the multiverse concept, as I understand it, is true, then anything that
can exist does exist, and anything that can happen has happened and will
continue to happen, ad infinitum. The sequence of events that we observe
has been played in the past, and will be
Stathis,
Yes, it is frightening, especially since (I think) I am an "engineer,
married with adult children, own the house you are living in and the car in
the driveway, and so on."
That is a vivid description.
But even as I am being hauled away to the psychiatric ward, can I not
logically cli
I realize that there are unsolved problems in quantum mechanics that can be
solved by adding dimensions, whether spatial or time. I also know that
added dimensions are describable mathematically, and that some (Tegmark)
hold that this makes them real. However, as Jonathan points out with
resp
life for many would be intolerable.
If there is no God, there is no afterlife and they get a
zero. If there is a God, there is an after life and they get
infinity. So how can they lose? Maybe Pascal's
Wager deserves more consideration.
Norman Samish
~~
ity that embraces the irrational.
Even though I don't think that personal gods exist, there
are benefits to having faith that they do. As Kevin Ryan said, there
is comfort in submission.
Norman
~~~~~
- Original Message -
From: "John M"
Hi Danny,
Thanks for your interesting comments. I've responded
below.
Norman
Norman
Samish wrote:
Hi John,
Your rhetorical questions about "heaven" point out how
ridiculous the concept is.
>> Actually, with all due respect to John
- Original Message -
From: "Quentin Anciaux" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <everything-list@eskimo.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 2:59 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: belief, faith, truth
Hi Norman, Le Jeudi 2 Février 2006 07:14, Norman
Samish a écrit :> (NS) I
Bruno,
Thanks for your response. I don't understand why you say
my argument is not valid. Granted, much of what you write is
unintelligible to me because you are expert in fields of which I know
little. Nevertheless, a cat can look at a king. Here is what we've
said so far:
(Norman
Stephen,
As you say, the version of string theory with an infinity
of universes is an elegant concept. However, when you say ". . .
its most fundamental assumption, the existence of a supersymmerty relation
between bosons and fermions, has never even come close to matching experimental
ob
"Why is there something rather than nothing?"
When I heard that Famous Question, I did not assume that "nothing" was
describable - because, if it was, it would not be "nothing." I don't think
of "nothing" as an empty bitstring - I think of it as the absence of a
bitstring - as "no thing."
Gi
Gentlemen:
George Levy's moral is correct.
George's encounter with his wife reminds me of a similar
encounter with my wife.
I told her, "Some people feel that there is something rather
than nothing because everything can be represented by strings of numbers, and
numbers must exist. Do
Thanks to all who replied to my question. This question
has bothered me for years, and I have hopes that some progress can be made
towards an answer.
I've heard some interesting concepts, including:
(1) "Numbers must exist, therefore 'something' must
exist."
(2) "Something exists because N
I don't see how a list of numbers could, by itself, contain any meaningful
information. Sure, a list of numbers could be an executable program, but
there has to be an executive program to execute the executable program.
The multiverse has to therefore consist of more than a matrix of numbers
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:"Another note about
numbering. It seems to be that if you repeatedly make descriptions of
descriptions, you eventually end up with all 0's or all 1's, showing that
numbers describing numbers is meaningless. Does this also prove
that numbers do not have a
( Norman Samish) I don't see how a list
of numbers could, by itself, contain any meaningful information.
Sure, a list of numbers could be an executable program, but there has to be
an executive program to execute the executable program. The
multiverse has to therefore consist of
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> "Hal Finney" wrote:> The first is that numbers are
really far more complex than they seem.> When we think of numbers, we
tend to think of simple ones, like 2, or 7.> But they are not really
typical of numbers. Even restricting ourselves to> the integers,
the
chine
interpreting the tape. I think this is another way of putting the UDA.
Cheers
On Fri, Mar 17, 2006 at 01:31:22PM -0800, Norman Samish wrote:
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > "Hal Finney" wrote:
> > The first is that numbers are really far more complex than t
Vic Stenger's site at http://www.colorado.edu/philosophy/vstenger/index.html
has much well-presented information and speculation. Thanks for the
reference.
Norman Samish
- Original Message -
From: "Brent Meeker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
You would like this book
as (0.39 x ASL) + (11.8 x
ASW) – 15.59
ASL = avg. sentence length, 22.5 in your statement.
ASW = avg. no. of syllables per word, 1.72 in your statement.
Norman Samish
- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 200
nd. Bruno,
and probably Russell and a few others, are clearly Homo Superior, while the rest
of us are mere Homo Sapiens."
You will then say, "Our discourse is meant for Homo
Superior. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the
kitchen."
aluable time attempting to get blood from a turnip.
Norman Samish
--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegrou
Interesting notion. I recently read a science
fiction story set in the distant future where people could be replicated at
will. In the story, it was not uncommon to meet one's clone. The
clones were treated as separate individuals- perhaps analogous to how
identical twins are treated in o
We can all agree, I think, that many among us humans are irrational. What's
more, many are obsessed with killing others who don't agree with them. The
Conquistadors who killed the Aztecs and Incas "because God wished it so" and
the radical Muslims who kill the infidels "because God wishes it
Hi Brent,
You say, "They (the Spanish) subjugated the Aztecs
and Inca for king and gold. European disease may have killed a lot
of them, but killing them off was not a purpose of the conquistadors -
though they were certainly revolted by the bloody sacrificial rites of the
Aztecs."I am r
;m looking forward to perusing it.
I bought the PDF version from http://www.booksurge.com and they allowed an
immediate download.
Thanks and best wishes,
Norman Samish
I'm pleased to announce that my book "Theory of Nothing" is
now for sale through Booksu
John, you can download a free little program at http://www.papercut.biz/emailStripper.htm that
strips all those >>> things from any file you feed it. If the
">" characters bother you, give it a try.
Norman
- Original Message -
From: "John M" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
I recently read somebody's speculation that the reality we inhabit is may be
a quantum computer. Presumably when we observe Schrodinger's cat
simultaneously being killed and not killed, we are observing the quantum
computer in action.
Norman Samish
~
ntum Universe?
4) Why is Schrodinger's Cat possible in "quantum universes" without
computational assistance?
Norman
- Original Message -
From: "1Z" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Everything List"
Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 2:43 PM
Subject: Re:
Hi WC,
I look forward to seeing your "math formulas/theorems etc." supporting the
Perfect Universe.
Your Perfect Universe sounds like the "heaven" that many true believers
aspire to. There can apparently be as many Heavens as there are Believers,
since each believer is free to define the spe
speculation that the reality we inhabit may be a
quantum computer, it enlarged my concept of all possible realities to
include all possible states of quantum superpositions. In half of these
S.C. is alive; in half it is dead.
Norman Samish
~~~`
- Original Message -
gain understanding. I sit at the feet of brilliant thinkers and
listen.Norman~~- Original
Message - From: "1Z" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: "Everything
List" Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006
11:06 AMSubject: Re: Bruno's argument - Comp>
I still cannot know
that what I experience is reality. I can only assume that reality
is how things appear to me - and I might be wrong.
Norman Samish
--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything
hanics!
It is constructed of something that behaves quantum
mechanically."
Thank you, Colin Hales. I believe your remarks apply to any
theory. Theories are descriptions of what we think reality may be - they
are not reality.
Norman Samish
--~--~-~--~~~---~
Serafino,
I regret that I am unable to answer your
question - perhaps another list member will volunteer his opinion.
Norman
~
- Original Message -
From: "scerir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 1:08 PM
Su
Brent,
That's an interesting explanation of a zero-information
universe, which you suggest is implicit in the MWI of QM - yet (like me) you
don't necessarily buy MWI. In your view, are there other explanations
for quantum mysteries that are more credible?
Nor
Brent: ". . . It seems to me that an information
theoretic analysis should be able to place a lower bound on how small a
probability can be and not be zero."
Norman: Doesn't a lower limit on probability repudiate the
notion of Tegmark, Vilenkin, et al, that there are necessarily duplicate
Stathis Papaioannou writes:
That's right, but with a fixed input the computer follows a perfectly
deterministic course, like a clockwork mechanism, however many times we
repeat the run. Moreover, if we consider the recording of the input as
hardwired into the computer, it does not interact wit
Stathis,
According to Wikipedia, "Platonia" is a tree. That isn't
what you mean. Could you furnish a definition? Thank
you,
Norman Samish ~~~- Original
Message -
From: "Stathis Papaioannou" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
. . .
Welcome,
I've been looking for an idiot savant to answer
this question: Perhaps you've heard of Thompson's Lamp. This
is an ideal lamp, capable of infinite switching speed and using electricity
that travels at infinite speed. At time zero it is on. After
one minute it is turned off. Af
"Perhaps you've heard of Thompson's Lamp. This is an ideal lamp, capable of
infinite switching speed and using electricity that travels at infinite
speed. At time zero it is on. After one minute it is turned off. After
1/2 minute it is turned back on. After 1/4 minute it is turned off. And so
To repeat Tegmark's rhetorical question (and he's probably not the
originator), "If the multiverse is finite, what's outside it's edge?"
Norman
- Original Message -
From: "Mirai Shounen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Federico Marulli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, Oc
I agree with Eric Hawthorne. Much of what's said here is unintelligible to
me. I think that most of the contributors to this list are outstanding
intellects that want to enlighten, not obfuscate, and have some fascinating
ideas. I'd like to be able to decipher what you're saying.
Norman
- Or
I've been reading about "spooky action at a distance" at
http://www.ncsu.edu/felder-public/kenny/papers/bell.html and several other
sites.
I'm told that non-locality is a phenomenon that is proven. A review of
experiments makes it clear that "spooky action at a distance is part of
nature." But
Does this question have an answer? I think the question shows there is a
limit to our understanding of things and is unanswerable. Does anybody
disagree?
Norman
Hal Finney,
Thanks for the thought. I know that there is something instead of nothing
by using Descartes reasoning. (From
http://teachanimalobjectivity.homestead.com/files/return2.htm) "The only
thing Descartes found certain was the fact he was thinking. He further felt
that thought was not a th
Gentlemen,
Thanks for the opinions. You have
convinced me that at least the empty set MUST exist, and "The whole of
mathematics can, in principle, be derived from the properties of the empty set,
Ø." (From http://www.hedweb.com/nihilism/nihilf01.htm .)
"In the Universe as a whole, the
Doug,
What you say rings true! Thanks for a breath of fresh air.
Norman
- Original Message -
From: "Doug Porpora" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 1:32 PM
Subject: Strange Anthropic Probabilities
> Hi all,
>
> I have a query about Tegmark's arg
Doug Porpora,
You have some interesting ideas. For example, "a probability so close
to zero it takes infinite chances for the event to be expected even once."
My understanding of the properties of infinity is that this cannot be true -
in an infinite set, anything that can occur, even at the s
uess the point of this is that once we invoke "infinity" we're into
realms that cannot be comprehended, at least not by me.
Norman
- Original Message -
From: "Martin Keitel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Norman Samish" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Doug
Your conclusion that "there is no scientific justification for morals of any
sort, only that in the Darwinistic sense" depends on the definition of
"scientific." Without "morals" an argument could be made that mankind would
not exist - it would have self-destructed. Perhaps that is "scientific
ju
"Why Occam's Razor" can be viewed at
http://parallel.hpc.unsw.edu.au/rks/docs/occam/
The abstract:
"Ensemble theories have received a lot of interest recently as a means of
explaining a lot of the detailed complexity observed in reality by a vastly
simpler description ``every possibility exists''
Ron McFarland,
Too much of what I read on this list is
over my head, but every once in awhile somebody like you has something
illuminating to say. Thanks for an understandable presentation of your
views. I find that they coincide with mine - even that digital
mathematics cannot fully d
than on how the
probability varies as a function of time.
I have not posted this to the list as you only posted your question to me;
if you think this reply would be of interest to the list, please feel free
to forward it.
Stathis Papaioannou
>From: "Norman Samish" <[EMAIL PRO
Perhaps mathematics, which is digital, is incapable of precise simulation of
reality, which is not digital.
Norman Samish
- Original Message -
From: "Stathis Papaioannou" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 9:36 PM
Subject:
In one version of Flip Flop, each of an odd number of players simply flips a
coin. The majority result, heads or tails, pays the casino $1 each while
the minority result gets paid $2 each. Based on these rules, I worked out
Kory's tables for 3, 5, 7 and 9 players.
The results show that the play
is not even-money. In the infinite
players case, even though you are equally
likely to win or lose, you win money in the
long run.
I am going to sleep... :)
Eric.
On Mon, 2004-10-11 at 17:52, Kory Heath wrote:
> At 12:20 AM 10/11/2004, Norman Samish wrote:
> >For example, if there are
ing is NOT valid - but I am unable,
at the moment, to tell you why!
Norman Samish
- Original Message -
From: "Stathis Papaioannou" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, October 04, 2004 5:43 PM
Subject: RE: Observati
Hal,
I'm way out of my depth, but if I'm correctly interpreting what you are
saying, it looks to me that your multiverse model cannot be valid.
This is because it answers the question "Why does anything exist?" with the
answer "Because it's not possible to conceive of Nothing, since the concept
Hal,
With reference to your "inconsistent" TOE model (which I do not claim to
understand), you state "My approach solves these issues for ME . . ." You
also state "All universes over and over is in my belief system more
satisfying and may be able to put some handle on ideas such as "self a
Hal,
You state, "Most mathematical proofs are too complex to be judged by
other than the belief of the majority of mathematicians." That's an
interesting observation, and it shows that much of what we take as "proven,"
from math to religion, is something that we accept as true because
auth
lty, as Hal Finney points out, is that we so far do not know what
"can happen."
Why does infinite space-time exist? Perhaps because it must - what
alternative could there be?
Norman Samish
.
- Original Message -
From: ""Hal Finney"" <[EMAIL PROTECTED
ee variety, which clearly I have no
control over?"
Norman Samish
of a SAO cannot be completely predictable.
To be free of complete predictability, at least some of the SAO's actions
must ultimately depend on some kind of random event. At the most
fundamental level, this must be quantum indeterminacy.
Norman Samish
~
re were completely predictable then how could there be free will?
Everything would be pre-ordained.
But, as Heisenberg shows us, the future cannot be predicted. Unpredictable
choices are made by SAO's, therefore free will exists.
Norman Samish
~
You argue that this is
incorrect. Can you show why it is incorrect? Thanks,
Norman Samish
Mark,
What does "happening right now" mean in the MWI concept? Einstein showed
that there is no universal "right now." Are you confusing this with a
saying that I've seen attributed to C. A. Pickover, in his book “Keys to
Infinity”? It goes “In infinite time and infinite space, whatever can
Jonathan,
If it is true that “In infinite time and infinite space, whatever can
happen, must happen, not only once but an infinite number of times,” then
what does probability mean? In your example below, there must be an
infinity of worlds where Colin Powell is president and an infinity of
Gentlemen,I think that we all must be
"zombies who behave as if they are conscious," in the sense that a snapshot
of any of us could, in principle, be precisely represented by a string of
zeroes and ones.If it is true that the multiverse is infinite in
space-time, is it not true that anythin
enough, perhaps it is NOT true that "anything that can exist must exist."
Would this then mean that the multiverse is NOT necessarily infinite in
space-time?
Thanks for your comments,
Norman Samish
``
- Original Message - Fro
If the multiverse is truly infinite in space-time, then all possible
universes must eventually appear in it, including an infinite number with
all 10^80 particles in it identical to those in our universe.
Norman Samish
~
- Original Message
(Please go to the URL to avoid
misinterpretations which I may have introduced by my editing.)
Norman Samish
- Original Message -
From: ""Hal Finney"" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 5:16 PM
Subject: Re: Tipler Weighs In
Lee Co
or others have opinions on WHY, I'd like to hear them. I wonder if
your opinion will be that no opinion is possible?
Norman Samish
~`
- Original Message -
From: "Stathis Papaioannou" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTE
Hi Jonathan,
You say that if "something and nothing are equivalent," then "the big WHY
question is rendered meaningless."
But isn't the big WHY question equivalent to asking "WHY does the integer
series -100 to +100 exist?" Even though the sum of the integer series is
zero, that doesn't render
Hi Jonathan,
You say that "Because it is necessarily true" is the answer to "Why does the
integer series -100 to +100 exist?" However, you seem to say that this is
NOT the answer to "Why does anything exist?" In this latter case, you seem
to say the question is meaningless because "the sum of
Le mardi 17 mai 2005 Ã 06:56 -0700, Norman Samish a Ãcrit :
> Hi Jonathan,
>
> You say that "Because it is necessarily true" is the answer to "Why does
> the
> integer series -100 to +100 exist?" However, you seem to say that this is
> NOT the answer
ot an explanation of
existence.
Obviously, we don't know THE answer - do you (or anybody) think there CAN be
an answer that does not require supernatural intervention? What might it
be?
My wife says the answer is "Because."
Norman Samish
~~~
e an
explanation for such would be a requirement that there is a necessitate
prior to which Existence is dependent upon."
Norman Samish
~~
Stephen Paul King writes:
Existence, itself, can not be said to require an explanation for such would
be a re
?article_id=183
Norman Samish
- Original Message
- From: "Saibal Mitra" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: "Stathis
Papaioannou" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 8:28
AMSubject: Re: objections to QTIHi Stathis,I think that
xchange? In other branches of the multiverse, humans did self-destruct
(and may do so in this one).
4) In my personal history, there are several "close calls" where I could
easily have been killed. In some branches of the multiverse I was, in fact,
killed. In this branch I survive.
human genetic variation stems
from this time. No other species shows such a small variation. Genetic
evidence suggests only 1,000 adults survived world wide. May be event which
caused rise in modern racial differences - Professor Stanley Ambrose of the
University of Illinois." This arti
for me to ever dream up. Yet if
I'm asked to provide answers, these are the only ones I can offer. I think
they all qualify as "marvelous circumstances."
Norman Samish
~~
(Norman writes) However, the part that I have trouble with is figuring
m
gravity.
- Original Message -
From: "scerir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2005 12:55 PM
Subject: Re: objections to QTI
Norman Samish wrote:
This scenario that you are discussing reminds me of this interview with
Julian Barb
Hal,
Your phrase ". . . constantly get bigger" reminds me of Mark
McCutcheon's "The Final Theory" where he revives a notion that gravity is
caused by the expansion of atoms.
Norman
- Original Message -
From: ""Hal Finney"" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 8:59 AM
Hal,
I agree. It seems clear to me that the urge of nature to increase the
entropy of the universe is the engine behind everything we see happening,
including life and evolution. Why did life occur? Why, to increase the
entropy of the universe!
How did life occur? Well, you mix some che
> Norman Samish wrote:
>> And where did this mysterious Big Bang come from? A "quantum
>> fluctuation of virtual particles" I'm told.
>
On Mon, 6 Jun 2005, Jesse Mazer wrote:
> Whoever told you that was passing off speculation as fact--in fact ther
Norman Samish wrote:
If the universe started contracting, its entropy would get smaller,
which nature doesn't allow in large-scale systems. This seems to me an
argument in support of perpetual expansion.
On Mon, 6 Jun 2005, Jesse Mazer wrote:
>From what I've read, if the u
Jonathan Colvin wrote: "If I take a loaf of bread, chop it half, put one
half in one room and one half in the other, and then ask the question "where
is the loaf of bread?", we can likely agree that the question is ill-posed."
Depending on definitions, this may indeed be an ill-posed question.
ons in
the ten traps, and one empty trap. The identity of the empty trap would
presumably be unpredictable.
Is my guess correct?
I don't dispute this, but you are certainly correct when you say "This may
sound ridiculous. . ." This vividly demonstrates "quantum w
I'm no physicist, but doesn't Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle forbid
making exact quantum-level measurements, hence exact copies? If so, then
all this talk of making exact copies is fantasy.
Norman Samish
~
- Original Message -
From: &q
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