[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A: No, thats not quite the angle that struck me as so funny. The deliciousness of the phrase is more a mu experience, a la whats wrong with this picture. J: What's wrong with the picture of somebody not wanting to be overshadowed? You've got me curious--can you articulate it? U: I'd love to hear akasha's answer, I may sell tickets then :) U: but mine would be, It's a marvelous way of clinging to the notion of unenlightenment. To want to not be overshadowed, you have to believe you are. And the funny thing is, the moment you drop that belief, you aren't. :J Yeah, that answer would be bull. Especially from somebody who admits he isn't enlightened. Does it strike anyone else as funny, even absurd, that the whole paradigm about enlightenment on this list is dichotomous, digital, either on or off? YES! That's exactly the issue. I realized that some time back, during the discussions about 'appreciation.' Some comment by, I think, Tom made me completely abandon my old paradigm and come up with a new one that more accurately described my subjective experience. Pure consciousness begins from the first mediation. If not before. Before. There has never been a moment in my life when I was not enlightened. I just never appreciated it until a three-week period in Fiuggi, when the 24/7 wit- nessing made it impossible not to appreciate. Since then, that witnessing has slipped from foreground to background many times, but what I realized during the 'appreciation' discussion is that it has always been present. What I realized when I first appreciated it was that it had *always* been present. And it can be delicate at first, and fade (yellow dye and cloth anyone?) or become overshadowed. But it keeps coming back. Sometimes more noticable, sometimes present only when one notices it --- where are my glasses? (you are wearng them, silly) is a good analogy. And when you lighten up about it, you can bring it from background to foreground any time you want. It's just the neatest thing. snip a host of great experiences The thing that brought it from background to foreground most recently was, strangely enough, watching an old movie on DVD. It was Roger Corman's, The Raven, which starred Vincent Price, Peter Lorre, Boris Karloff, and a young guy in one of his first film roles, as Peter Lorre's son. This young actor was SO bad that it made you want to cringe. It was just amazing to watch. It was like I was watching a brilliant actor brilliantly playing the part of the worst actor ever filmed. I was. It was Jack Nicholson. The thing is, he was a great actor even then. He just didn't appreciate it, so his range was limited, and he clung to old ideas of being a bad actor, trapped by ignorance and inexperience. It wasn't true. All that he ever became was already present, just not appreciated, and thus unused. That's the thing that is striking me about all these conversations last night and this morning. Some people who have learned to appreciate what has always been present are talking to others who have not. The ones who have not appreciated their own enlightenment are playing a role, clinging to the illusion of their ignorance as strongly as Jack was clinging to the illusion of being a bad actor in The Raven. It's all very, very, very, very funny. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Packed crowd hears David Lynch Filmmaker shares zeal for transcendental medi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jyouells2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jyouells2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But they have to get 'scholarships' in order for the official TMO to teach them to mediatate. What is wrong with this picture? A sort of elitist materialistic welfare spirituality boggling. I mean I understand what Mr. Lynch and his Foundation are doing - getting good press, and at the grassroots level, overcomming the obstacle that the organiztion has become to itself. A win-win both for him and the people who learn. Strange stuff, JohnY I kind of like the approach. I may change my views later as it unfolds. But it appears to me that it solves a big dilemna. To fund a nice modern center, to pay teachers a reasonable professional salary (100k+, plus retirement, health, rounding etc.), to fund good research, to promote the program professionally, to fund international, aka product development, it takes lot of money. Much more than students would normally be able to pay. The scholarships solve the problem. The student pays $500 and gets a $2500 scholarship. Or pays $500, gets $1000 in student loans and gets a $1500 scholarship. It pays the bills. The TMO and teachers are placed on a professional level. And the students take it way seriously its a $3000 special course, man! (And of course its a great way to meet rich chicks.) The issue is whether Lynch can raise $8 Billion. A few blockbuster, well reviewed films, the fund raising influence of a top director (that is, his new status if he has several high grossing critically acclaimed films) could do it. Speilberg could I think. Lynch could evolve to Spielberg status and accomplishment. Or higher. Its feasible. Add Heather Graham and others if their careers took off, a new Mitch Kapor who stays with the program, some Google early employees with lots of stock who get enthralled, throw in an Indian entrepreneur and film star or two, some heavy foundation co-matching of funds -- and its feasible. Maybe not probably, but feasible. And if this Sat yuga thing has any legs, things could change fast. If the Foundation sets up the Centers and pays the teachers might work . If it's current TMO ...who knows JohnY I have long held that independent teaching organizations should license various chunks of the knowledge from the TMO, pay fees for the license, and manage the business side independly of the TMO. That then could evolve to the teaching org(s) putting out RFPS (Request for Proposals -- the standard way of soliciting bids for a project or consulting services) and let TMO, AOl(SSRS), Amma, Ganga-ji, etc. all bid to be license providers for the independent teaching orgs. That is, the knowledge providers (KP) supply trained teachers. And the KPs are paid a fee per student taught. With some monthly or annual minumum guaranteed. The teaching org could seek bids for teachers and facilitators of initial meditation, advance meditation, residence course teachers, hatha yoga teachers, jyotishees, AV techs, pundits, etc. The teaching orgs would provide all financing, facilites, promotion, back office, and follow-up. Then yoga could kick ass in America! And Heaven on Earth would really dawn. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip To hold, as some appear to, that we meditate for 20-30 years and then one day, the room goes from total darkness to total light, is funny, in a charming way. So to the extent people keep insisting IT is already there, they are correct -- to a degree. It comes and goes. Or more corectly, though still inaccurately, we move into it, and then get bounced out. Judy writes: That's certainly been my experience. And it's definitely progressive, as you suggest later. Tom T: Jean Kline awoke in 1955 and continued till his death in the late 90's. From his book I AM page 83 para 3 Enlightenment is instantaneous but the mind becomes gradually clearer. The clarity of the mind brings about a relaxation from old patterns, a freeing of energy which in turn stimulates clearsightedness. It leads us toward living free from all striving to attain something, free from the tension brought about by waiting for something to happen, expectation. The above seems to be the norm. The Byron Katies and the Eckhart Tolles seem to be the exception rather than the norm. In looking back I can agree that was the case for me. There was a moment that was way out of time and something big had happened but I was not clear enough to get it. Years later in clearness and clarity is was easy to see the times IT had come to the foreground and then had slipped away because it could not be clearly appreciated. Tom Exactly. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Thongs and strings?
Many of us know that the primary, concrete(?) meaning of the word 'guNa' is 'string'. I wonder if that has any connection with the string theories of modern physics. I mean, sattva aka sato-guNa could have a connection with energy field strings, rajo-guNa with gauge boson strings(??), and tamo-guNa with matter field strings, if there are such things at all... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Akasha: Does it strike anyone else as funny, even absurd, that the whole paradigm about enlightenment on this list is dichotomous, digital, either on or off? Unc: YES! That's exactly the issue. I realized that some time back, during the discussions about 'appreciation.' Some comment by, I think, Tom made me completely abandon my old paradigm and come up with a new one that more accurately described my subjective experience. A: Pure consciousness begins from the first mediation. If not before. U: Before. There has never been a moment in my life when I was not enlightened. If you were jivna-mukti at birth, you had not need to incarnate. A serious point per my prior post. People can dilute, devalue, reclassify, and redefine E criteria all they want. But if they come back, they were wrong. I have long suggested that we run some tests on the self-proclaimed Es. Push'em off a cliff. And if they don't come back, we will celebrate their saintliness. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip To hold, as some appear to, that we meditate for 20-30 years and then one day, the room goes from total darkness to total light, is funny, in a charming way. So to the extent people keep insisting IT is already there, they are correct -- to a degree. It comes and goes. Or more corectly, though still inaccurately, we move into it, and then get bounced out. That's certainly been my experience. And it's definitely progressive, as you suggest later. So, to clarify (my understanding), its not that you don't want to be overshadowed (as in a permanent state of overshadowment). Its not that Awareness is not (never) present. Its that you simply want to be overshadowed less often. That you want Awareness to be Aware / present more often. Sure, preferably all the time, but I'll take whatever I can get! I also find that the more often/longer Awareness is present, the more of a pain it is when it goes away. Still laughing uncontrollably. It's all about what you want rather than what is. If you only learned to appreciate what already is, you'd have what you want. The longer you wants it, the further away it gets. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Was A scolding - Now Succession
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jyouells2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, markmeredith2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jyouells2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jyouells2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The king and rajas will disappear overnight without money behind them. The bank accounts and trade/service marks will mark continuity. When was the last time you heard King Tony on a topic that wasn't ceremonial? Of course the rajs have their own money, that's how they got to be rajs, and I hear stories that some of them, esp raj dean who has some real world experience, operate fairly independently from tmo central. But I agree most of them will fade away about as quick as their enlightened mall project. King Tony as an influential spiritual leader strikes me as funny, though I do hear TBs talk about him in somewhat reverential tones. A gold-crowned lebanese scientist leading a new-agey vedic sect financed primarily by jews?? Wonder if there's enuf energy left for any sort of peasant revolt against the aristocracy in the post-MMY scramble? I would have been more off with their heads 10 yrs ago, but now I just want to watch from a distance what happens. SSRS pulled off a revolt. Maybe one can happen in the West too, sans guru figure. So the knowlege doesn't die here. There are many with the right training, and at least a few with appropriate temperment. JohnY So SSRS is a hero and MMY is a villain? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] yagya: Vijaya Dashami - Victory Day - October 12, 2005
Title: Vijaya Dashami: Victory Day, 12th October 2005 New Plan for Maharishi Jyotish and Maharishi Yagya® programs The basis of all Maharishi JyotishSM and Maharishi Yagya services is the Comprehensive Life Kundali (CLK)an elaborate preparation and study of the birth chart or horoscope of the individual and his or her closely related family members: mother, father, husband or wife, children. The CLK is prepared only once in a lifetime by a panel of experts in the Maharishi Jyotish program and will be an all-time standard reference for predictions, consultations, Muhurtas, compatibilities and Maharishi Yagya recommendations. Please contact the Maharishi Yagya office in your Time Zone for more information on obtaining your Comprehensive Life Kundali. Maharishi Open University Celebrates the Vedic CalendarDid you know that on the Maharishi Channel, available via satellite into your home, you can now view special half-hour programs honoring the different days of the Vedic Calendar? These programs include Vedic recitation to enliven the Laws of Nature specific to the day. For more information visit http://mou.org You are subscribed to the Maharishi Yagya program newsletter (unless this was forwarded to you by a friend). To Subscribeclick here To Unsubscribeclick here SHARE THE KNOWLEDGEInvite your friends to subscribe to the Maharishi Yagya program newsletter,or simply forward this e-mail to them. The Maharishi Yagya program is made available only through donations to Maharishi Vedic Foundation, a non-profit organization exempt from tax under section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Service codes. Contributions to Maharishi Vedic Foundation are tax-deductible. Maharishi Vedic Foundation is dedicated to enlivening Vedic tradition by providing Maharishi Yagya performances for the benefit of the individual and the whole world. Privacy policy: We do not make our list available to other organizations. Copyright 2005 Maharishi Vedic Foundation. All Rights Reserved. ®Maharishi Yagya, Maharishi Jyotish, Maharishi Vedic Astrology, Maharishi Open University and Maharishi Channel are registered or common law trademarks licensed to Maharishi Vedic Education Development Corporation and used under sublicense or with permission. Reducing negativity and tension in the life of the individualthrough the Maharishi Yagya program will amount to reducing negativity and tension in the world consciousness. MAHARISHI YAGYA PERFORMANCES AROUND THE YEAR To Create Heaven On Earth In Everyones Life Vijaya Dashami Victory Day12th October 2005 Vijaya Dashami Day to bring victory and success to ones undertakings Victory Day brings the nine days of Mother Divine to a glorious conclusion. When the nine values of life the five senses, mind, intellect, ego and the transcendental value have been enlivened during the
[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Akasha: Does it strike anyone else as funny, even absurd, that the whole paradigm about enlightenment on this list is dichotomous, digital, either on or off? Unc: YES! That's exactly the issue. I realized that some time back, during the discussions about 'appreciation.' Some comment by, I think, Tom made me completely abandon my old paradigm and come up with a new one that more accurately described my subjective experience. A: Pure consciousness begins from the first mediation. If not before. U: Before. There has never been a moment in my life when I was not enlightened. That's the one point on all of this where I think we differ. First, I see no value in labels such as enlightenment. Me, either. I was just using the terminology already being used in these discussions. It can create distinctions, it can creates longing for titles, it can create false egos, it can creates scams, etc. And the upside is? Giving some people who are anxious for the title something to do with their time? :-) I just never appreciated it until a three-week period in Fiuggi, when the 24/7 wit- nessing made it impossible not to appreciate. Since then, that witnessing has slipped from foreground to background many times, but what I realized during the 'appreciation' discussion is that it has always been present. What I realized when I first appreciated it was that it had *always* been present. A: yes, all that is good. And similar. But if one wanted to play the labels game, it would seem that when the attention of Awareness (of awareness) slips from foreground to background, its not E. But I think E labels are bogus, so who cares. Claim all you want. :) No claims, merely reporting. And having fun. A: And it can be delicate at first, and fade (yellow dye and cloth anyone?) and become overshadowed. But it keeps coming back. Sometimes more noticable, sometimes present only when one notices it --- where are my glasses? (you are wearng them, silly) is a good analogy. U: And when you lighten up about it, you can bring it from background to foreground any time you want. It's just the neatest thing. A: YES. And it is always accessable. It is bitchin. Still, in that stage, I would hold that is not E. If I was playing the label game. I no longer make that distinction. Lately I've discovered a few fairly foolproof methods of bringing it from back- ground to foreground anytime I want. The thing is, I rarely want to. As someone -- perhaps you -- said in these discussions, there is no difference. The wanting there to be one feels false, whereas the appreciation of what is already going on feels non-false. U: The thing that brought it from background to foreground most recently was, strangely enough, watching an old movie on DVD. It was Roger Corman's, The Raven, which starred Vincent Price, Peter Lorre, Boris Karloff, and a young guy in one of his first film roles, as Peter Lorre's son. This young actor was SO bad that it made you want to cringe. It was just amazing to watch. It was like I was watching a brilliant actor brilliantly playing the part of the worst actor ever filmed. It was. It was Jack Nicholson. The thing is, he was a great actor even then. He just didn't appreciate it, so his range was limited, and he clung to old ideas of being a bad actor, trapped by ignorance and inexperience. It wasn't true. All that he ever became was already present, just not appreciated, and thus unused. Nice example. Funny movie, funnier for his performance. :-) That's the thing that is striking me about all these conversations last night and this morning. Some people who have learned to appreciate what has always been present are talking to others who have not. The ones who have not appreciated their own enlightenment are playing a role, clinging to the illusion of their ignorance as strongly as Jack was clinging to the illusion of being a bad actor in The Raven. It's all very, very, very, very funny. Perhaps I am viewed as one of those. Those? If I viewed you as anything, which I don't think I do, it would be as one of the people who has learned to appreciate what has already been present. I just am not interested in the label game. Labels are not real. The map is not the territory. I think what's going on here is that Judy is more attached to being able to say, Ah...finally...I have the map, than in actually getting to the place it points to. And the last couple of days that's been striking me as just hilarious, side-splittingly funny. Experience and Understanding are real. And both are spectral - extending along a long/wide spectrum. I would say that experience was far more real than understanding. The more experiences I have of higher states of
[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Akasha: Does it strike anyone else as funny, even absurd, that the whole paradigm about enlightenment on this list is dichotomous, digital, either on or off? Unc: YES! That's exactly the issue. I realized that some time back, during the discussions about 'appreciation.' Some comment by, I think, Tom made me completely abandon my old paradigm and come up with a new one that more accurately described my subjective experience. A: Pure consciousness begins from the first mediation. If not before. U: Before. There has never been a moment in my life when I was not enlightened. If you were jivna-mukti at birth, you had not need to incarnate. That's just Hindu dogma, not accepted by everyone in the reincarnation business. A serious point per my prior post. People can dilute, devalue, reclassify, and redefine E criteria all they want. But if they come back, they were wrong. Just dogma. I see three possibilities for the fully enlightened being at the time of death. They could choose to do the drop back into the ocean thing and not incarnate, they could choose to incarnate for the purpose of helping other sentient beings, or they could choose not to choose and just see what happens. This is actually a pretty standard Buddhist way of seeing the situation. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Akasha: Does it strike anyone else as funny, even absurd, that the whole paradigm about enlightenment on this list is dichotomous, digital, either on or off? Unc: YES! That's exactly the issue. I realized that some time back, during the discussions about 'appreciation.' Some comment by, I think, Tom made me completely abandon my old paradigm and come up with a new one that more accurately described my subjective experience. A: Pure consciousness begins from the first mediation. If not before. U: Before. There has never been a moment in my life when I was not enlightened. If you were jivna-mukti at birth, you had not need to incarnate. A serious point per my prior post. People can dilute, devalue, reclassify, and redefine E criteria all they want. But if they come back, they were wrong. So much for bodhisatvas? I have long suggested that we run some tests on the self-proclaimed Es. Push'em off a cliff. And if they don't come back, we will celebrate their saintliness. MMY once commented, or so I am told, that the sidhis would be an eye- opener to many who felt they were fully enlightened. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Akasha: Does it strike anyone else as funny, even absurd, that the whole paradigm about enlightenment on this list is dichotomous, digital, either on or off? Unc: YES! That's exactly the issue. I realized that some time back, during the discussions about 'appreciation.' Some comment by, I think, Tom made me completely abandon my old paradigm and come up with a new one that more accurately described my subjective experience. A: Pure consciousness begins from the first mediation. If not before. U: Before. There has never been a moment in my life when I was not enlightened. If you were jivna-mukti at birth, you had not need to incarnate. A serious point per my prior post. People can dilute, devalue, reclassify, and redefine E criteria all they want. But if they come back, they were wrong. So much for bodhisatvas? I have long suggested that we run some tests on the self- proclaimed Es. Push'em off a cliff. And if they don't come back, we will celebrate their saintliness. MMY once commented, or so I am told, that the sidhis would be an eye- opener to many who felt they were fully enlightened. Pun not intended... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] yagya: Vijaya Dashami - Victory Day - October 12, 2005
Title: Vijaya Dashami: Victory Day, 12th October 2005 New Plan for Maharishi Jyotish and Maharishi Yagya® programs The basis of all Maharishi JyotishSM and Maharishi Yagya services is the Comprehensive Life Kundali (CLK)an elaborate preparation and study of the birth chart or horoscope of the individual and his or her closely related family members: mother, father, husband or wife, children. The CLK is prepared only once in a lifetime by a panel of experts in the Maharishi Jyotish program and will be an all-time standard reference for predictions, consultations, Muhurtas, compatibilities and Maharishi Yagya recommendations. Please contact the Maharishi Yagya office in your Time Zone for more information on obtaining your Comprehensive Life Kundali. Maharishi Open University Celebrates the Vedic CalendarDid you know that on the Maharishi Channel, available via satellite into your home, you can now view special half-hour programs honoring the different days of the Vedic Calendar? These programs include Vedic recitation to enliven the Laws of Nature specific to the day. For more information visit http://mou.org You are subscribed to the Maharishi Yagya program newsletter (unless this was forwarded to you by a friend). To Subscribeclick here To Unsubscribeclick here SHARE THE KNOWLEDGEInvite your friends to subscribe to the Maharishi Yagya program newsletter,or simply forward this e-mail to them. The Maharishi Yagya program is made available only through donations to Maharishi Vedic Foundation, a non-profit organization exempt from tax under section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Service codes. Contributions to Maharishi Vedic Foundation are tax-deductible. Maharishi Vedic Foundation is dedicated to enlivening Vedic tradition by providing Maharishi Yagya performances for the benefit of the individual and the whole world. Privacy policy: We do not make our list available to other organizations. Copyright 2005 Maharishi Vedic Foundation. All Rights Reserved. ®Maharishi Yagya, Maharishi Jyotish, Maharishi Vedic Astrology, Maharishi Open University and Maharishi Channel are registered or common law trademarks licensed to Maharishi Vedic Education Development Corporation and used under sublicense or with permission. Reducing negativity and tension in the life of the individualthrough the Maharishi Yagya program will amount to reducing negativity and tension in the world consciousness. MAHARISHI YAGYA PERFORMANCES AROUND THE YEAR To Create Heaven On Earth In Everyones Life Vijaya Dashami Victory Day12th October 2005 Vijaya Dashami Day to bring victory and success to ones undertakings Victory Day brings the nine days of Mother Divine to a glorious conclusion. When the nine values of life the five senses, mind, intellect, ego and the transcendental value have been enlivened during the
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!
--- sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] I ask because I've said in a number of posts that the longer I meditate, the less overshadowed I am. And certainly MMY teaches that it's a gradual process, so I'm not sure why any TMer would hold that belief. MMY teaches that it is GENERALLY a gradual process, IIRC. It appears to be a gradual process from the side of avidya. What is being experienced is the gradual increase of sattva as the body and mind are purified. When consciousness stops projecting into and identifying with boundaries and awakens to itself then it becomes self-evident that there was no gradual process of enlightenment; that this has always been. But of course, prior to this realization, talking this way just leads to the moodmaking of advaita, not practicing yogic techniques and the continuation of a falsehood-avidya. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!
On 9/27/05 6:52 PM, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On the other hand, when neo-advaitists sell a dichotomous view of enlightenment, and on top of that proclaim You just need to BELIEVE Peter, and you CAN fly (as in Peter Pan), Just BELIEVE it and you ARE enlightened -- and the light will be fully and eternally ON -- they are being silly too, IMO. Awareness, by itself, Presence, is not SUDDENLY found at the top of the moutaintop after a 20-30 year climb. Or after some mind game. Its there everyday, to a degree. And as we enter into it more, the bouncer at the door, throws us out less often. This is why once the recognition of the non-dual state, the practice of meditation changes to almost a non-meditation where one learns to recognize whether or not one has 'corrected from the state' of non-dual presence. If we have, we simply refresh the state of presence and continue. Without methods to do so, ego will often decide yeah, you're in the state for you. One thing is for certain, if you are, some form of super-knowledge is a primary indicator that you are able to remain in the state. The only reason it is said in advaitist circles that we are already enlightened is that from the perspective of the experience of the non-dual state it is recognized it was always like this, this is an unborn state, it was always sparkling through, I just didn't get it. The problem arises when people who try to extrapolate the statement we are already enlightened bass-ackwards from waking state POV and proclaim I am already enlightened. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!
On 9/27/05 7:13 PM, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip To hold, as some appear to, that we meditate for 20-30 years and then one day, the room goes from total darkness to total light, is funny, in a charming way. So to the extent people keep insisting IT is already there, they are correct -- to a degree. It comes and goes. Or more corectly, though still inaccurately, we move into it, and then get bounced out. And it's definitely progressive, as you suggest later. There are gradual paths and there are sudden paths. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] I ask because I've said in a number of posts that the longer I meditate, the less overshadowed I am. And certainly MMY teaches that it's a gradual process, so I'm not sure why any TMer would hold that belief. MMY teaches that it is GENERALLY a gradual process, IIRC. It appears to be a gradual process from the side of avidya. What is being experienced is the gradual increase of sattva as the body and mind are purified. When consciousness stops projecting into and identifying with boundaries and awakens to itself then it becomes self-evident that there was no gradual process of enlightenment; that this has always been. But of course, prior to this realization, talking this way just leads to the moodmaking of advaita, not practicing yogic techniques and the continuation of a falsehood-avidya. Not necessarily. Talking this way is merely talking that way, which is completely accurate from a particular point of view. Neither the talking or the POV implies any actions on the part of the person, nor any beliefs. In my case, I could talk from this POV one moment and another the next, and see absolutely no conflict. Taking a POV is simply taking a POV. Some folks like to read more into it. From one point of view, there has never been a moment in my entire life at which I was not enlightened. From another, there was definitely a moment in my life in which I first clearly experienced enlightenment. Since then, that clarity has come and gone, and become more or less full. From yet another point of view, I do not believe in the concept of full enlightenment at all. I do not believe that there is an end point to evolution or a point at which anyone could be declared to be fully enlightened. From one point of view, there could appear to be a point at which I was not enlightened. From another point of view, no such point ever existed. From one point of view, there could appear to be some kind of subjective difference between 'before' and 'after.' From another, there is no difference whatsoever. ALL of these statements are completely true, and express my subjective experiences perfectly, just seen from different points of view. If you want to see contradictions in them, that's YOUR point of view. Knowledge is structured in POV. :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!
On 9/28/05 4:20 AM, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have long suggested that we run some tests on the self-proclaimed Es. Push'em off a cliff. And if they don't come back, we will celebrate their saintliness. MMY once commented, or so I am told, that the sidhis would be an eye- opener to many who felt they were fully enlightened. Indeed it should be considered an important sign of being able to remain in the non-dual state. While one can have siddhis without enlightenment, enlightenment is invariably accompanied by siddhi. Otherwise you would not have otherthrown duality. Many confuse learning to integrate the non-dual state with full integration of the non-dual state. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!
akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip To hold, as some appear to, that we meditate for 20-30 years and then one day, the room goes from total darkness to total light, is funny, in a charming way. So to the extent people keep insisting IT is already there, they are correct -- to a degree. It comes and goes. Or more corectly, though still inaccurately, we move into it, and then get bounced out. Judy wrote: And it's definitely progressive, as you suggest later. Vaj wrote: There are gradual paths and there are sudden paths. Tom T: I can not remember the author but believe it was Nisargadatta who said,It is always gradual until it is sudden. WHich certainly leaves open All Possibilities. Most of us on the TMO path seem to have been given the slow and gradual path. No complaint, just an observation from those I have met. TOm Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Tulsa newpaper- 3 part series
Camelot Owner Hopes for Peace Palace Third in a Multi-Part Series By NANCY K. OWENS Associate Editor PITIFUL UPKEEP: What was the Camelot Hotel continues to rot at I-44 and Peroria Avenue in Tulsa. Editors Note: This is the third of a multi-part series investigating the demise and possible future of the Camelot Hotel. Once one of the most popular gathering places in Tulsas history, and the host one time to President Richard Nixon, the building has become an eyesore and health menace. The present owner of what was the Camelot Hotel is Maharishi Ayur-ved University, a school for teaching transcendental meditation and the teaching of the founder of TM, the Maharishi Mahesh Yoga. The building or parts of the property may be turned into a Peace Palace, described on www.MaharishiPeacePalace.org, as a beautiful modular building that is covered in white marble. The Peace Palace will include exhibition and lecture halls, offices, residential rooms and a dining hall. According to a TM practitioner who recently relocated to Tulsa, We will be building a Peace Palace on part of the land where The Camelot is located. Until the Peace Palace comes to fruition, a Maharishi Enlightenment Center will be opened at 5800 S. Lewis Ave., according to a Maharishi Ayur-ved spokeperson. The Center will teach TM, sell Maharishi Ayurveda herbal products (also available at www.mapi.com) and have a Maharishi Spa for Ladies, whose sister facility can be seen on www.theraj.com. Peace Palaces, similar to the one planned for Tulsa, are an integral part of the Maharishis global philosophy. According to the Peace Palace website, Each Peace Palace will offer to everyone the knowledge and practical programs for peace and enlightenment, for a healthy, happy, more creative, more fulfilling and successful life through the Transcendental Meditation program. Its benefits in the fields of education, health, social behavior and world peace have been amply documented during the past half-century all over the world. The five to ten most prominent families of every city are invited to join us in becoming founders of the Peace Palace. Peace Palace construction in the USA is being undertaken by The Global Country of World Peace, a tax-exempt 501©(3) organization. The Global Country of World Peace is a virtual country (not physical) and was established on October 7, 2000. It was created by Maharishi to establish global world peace by unifying all nations in happiness, prosperity, invincibility, and perfect health, while supporting the rich diversity of our world family. Its stated mission is to establish Heaven on Earth by raising the quality of life of every individual to complete fulfillment and affluence in enlightenment. It will establish a Global Administration through Natural Law by enlivening the nourishing evolutionary power of Natural Law in the life of every individual and in the collective consciousness of the whole world. The Capital of The Global Country of World Peace is Maharishi Vedic City, IA, known simply as Vedic City. Maharishis goal is to replace what he refers to as damn democracy with the peace inspiring politics of The Global Country of World Peace, according to their literature. His thoughts concerning this issue were published in a TM Bulletin. His opinions are clear from some of his quotes: Damn the democracy, which is based on the popular will, vote. It is not based on knowledge, it is based on number. The man-made constitution, that system of self rule called democracy. They say the Minister is in the cabinet, he has no time to meditate. What does he do in the cabinet? He does opposition. If your religion tells you to be a devil, then I would advise you to be a devil, but enjoy life, enjoy life. All those countries who are earning their livelihood by selling arms, Natural Law will take care of all that. Time is different now, they will not be able to save themselves from the fury about the sin they are committing. The same TM Bulletin offers Maharishis solution to societys problems, So, this is what well do, it is the rise of unifying principles through education, this will motivate the creation of leaders in each country, of an ideal character and quality, not like the monsters or dragons of destruction who dominate in nations today. For those who arent familiar with Maharishi, www.tm.org offers a glimpse of his global achievements during the last 40 years. To list a few: 1957- founded the worldwide Spiritual Regeneration Movement. 1972- inaugurated his World Plan and created a new science, the Science of Consciousness. 1975- discovered the Constitution of the Universe. 1978- created the World Peace Project, sending teams of Yogic Flyers to the most troubled areas of the world, to calm the violence through TM. 1984- sent the first group of 7,000 Yogic Flyers to Fairfield, Iowa. (According to the website, scientific research
[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!
Akasha 108 writes:snipped from long interchange with Unc That's the one point on all of this where I think we differ. First, I see no value in labels such as enlightenment. It can create distinctions, it can creates longing for titles, it can create false egos, it can creates scams, etc. And the upside is? Tom T: I really have a problem with that E word for two reasons. One it carries such tremendous baggage that it does all of what Akasha has said above without anyone knowing it does. The second reason is that in western society the word light is totally enmeshed with the concept of switch/on/off. It is subtle but implies something not intended by the Rishis of old as they had no switches to link up with light. For me the word Awake is pretty simple and conveys my understanding that PC is in the foreground all the time along with whatever else is going on. It is as good a descriptor as any other word. Maybe Akasha can come up with a different word. No need to label but definately IT needs some language to describe what is going on without a fifty word description plus another fifty word disclaimer. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I really have a problem with that E word for two reasons. One it carries such tremendous baggage that it does all of what Akasha has said above without anyone knowing it does. I completely agree. I think that the term should be thrown away and replaced with something with no meaning whatsoever. The second reason is that in western society the word light is totally enmeshed with the concept of switch/on/off. Not to mention the negative Western association of dark and darkness with an absence of light. It is subtle but implies something not intended by the Rishis of old as they had no switches to link up with light. You must've had a real low-rent cave. Mine had electric lights and hot and cold running water and 24-hour cave service. :-) For me the word Awake is pretty simple and conveys my understanding that PC is in the foreground all the time along with whatever else is going on. But it doesn't work universally as a metaphor, again because people think in terms of opposites, and polarities. When most people hear the word 'awake,' in the back of their minds they think that the antonym is 'asleep,' as in deep sleep, as in the absence of all subjective experience. This doesn't map to the distinction between 'before realization' and 'after realization.' It is as good a descriptor as any other word. I'm not convinced, for the reasons stated above and others. I don't have a better suggestion at this point, but I'll ponder it. In my cave. I'll order some pizza from cave service and think about it over lunch. :-) Maybe Akasha can come up with a different word. No need to label but definately IT needs some language to describe what is going on without a fifty word description plus another fifty word disclaimer. Maybe it doesn't. Maybe the whole *problem* is with people trying to come up with labels for something that can never be labeled. Maybe the whole *problem* is trying to reduce something that can *never* be described to a fifty-word description. Unless you come up with a completely made-up word that has no connotations for *anyone*, you're going to run into the problem of pre-associations with that word. If you make up a new one, you're going to run into the need to try to define it, something that can never be done. Someone on another spiritual forum I participate in once misplaced his fingers on the keyboard and typed 'enkughtenment' instead of 'enlightenment.' It spawned a very funny exchange, but the term stuck around. Now we tend to use 'enkughtenment' in these discussions because everyone knows the phenomenon we're trying to talk about, but without any of the preconceptions associated with other terms. Besides, it helps people to lighten up, which is always a good thing. :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'll order some pizza from cave service and think about it over lunch. :-) Dude, if you are living in Paris and you order up take-out pizza -- you are not only way UnAwake, you are a gastronomic baffoon. :) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dylan on PBS
Turquoise, thanks for your comments. I agree about Highway 61 Revisited, although I can't remember all that was on it. Those songs were life-changers. Nothing much else got through to me in those long-gone days. Part 2 of the documentary is just as good as the first part, so get the DVD as soon as you can! In part 2 there are some clips of Dylan speaking to the press on various occasions. Of course, he didn't really speak at all. He didn't know what the questions were about. He couldn't talk about his own work. It struck me that when he was singing, composing and performing, he was a force of nature, unstoppable. The daemon had alighted on him, and he was in another place altogether. He'd received The Gift. But when the performance was over, the Gift departed and would not translate itself into any other form. So Dylan was left inarticulate, ordinary, not interesting at all. But that music! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Did anyone see Martin Scorsese's documentary on Dylan last night? It was brilliant, absolutely riveting. Some clips of Dylan performing I had never seen before. Such driving intensity and authenticity. It made me realize in quite a new way just how brilliant the guy was. I had completely forgotten A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall, which I used to listen to on my little record player over and over and over in, what, 1965 or 1966. Hearing it again after all these years was a revelation, and Allen Ginsberg made some excellent points about the poetic quality of the lyrics. I hadn't heard Desolation Row either for about 40 years. It brought back things I had forgotten about my own adolescence. Amazing what a song can do. Yes, it is. They are the soundtracks to the movies of our lives. Part two is next week, I think. Don't miss it. I have to wait until the DVD is available here in France, but I doubt it will be long. They're into Dylan here, because they are into words. But was/is arguably the most important poet of the twentieth century. The only person I can think of whose poetry possibly rocked as many people's lives (in the sense of radically shifting their states of attention) is Bob Marley. Some people don't consider them poets because they don't publish in the New Yorker. Some people can go suck eggs. There has never been another poet in the world of popular music (which, after all, affects the lives of more people than all the published real poets combined) who can hold a candle to him. The man is a meteor who refuses to flame out. He burns as brightly from time to time in his 60s as he did in his 20s. You mentioned Desolation Row. The other day, when Jason posted the article about Rolling Stone's picks for the Top Ten albums ever made, I reacted to it by diving for the two Dylan albums on the list. I finished that drive down Memory Row with Desolation Row. It's amazing, even now. At the time it released, it was nothing less than devastating. I remember listening to it the first time. It was the last cut on Highway 61 Revisited. The whole album was a revelation, every song taking me to places I had never dreamed of before, but Desolation Row! It was an epiphany, in every sense of the word. It changed my life forever. I was never the same person after hear- ing the first time. I sat there, shocked, the needle stuck in the last groove of the record, me unable to get up and put it back in its cradle. I remember thinking, I didn't know it was possible to write like that. Fortunately, I have had that same experience with many other writers in the years since, but Bob was the first person to make me feel that way. Bless him. They're selling postcards of the hanging They're painting the passports brown The beauty parlor is filled with sailors The circus is in town Here comes the blind commissioner They've got him in a trance One hand is tied to the tight-rope walker The other is in his pants And the riot squad they're restless They need somewhere to go As Lady and I look out tonight From Desolation Row Cinderella, she seems so easy It takes one to know one, she smiles And puts her hands in her back pockets Bette Davis style And in comes Romeo, he's moaning You Belong to Me I Believe And someone says, You're in the wrong place, my friend You better leave And the only sound that's left After the ambulances go Is Cinderella sweeping up On Desolation Row Now the moon is almost hidden The stars are beginning to hide The fortunetelling lady Has even taken all her things inside All except for Cain and Abel And the hunchback of Notre Dame Everybody is making love Or else expecting rain And the Good Samaritan, he's dressing He's getting ready for the show He's going to the carnival tonight On Desolation Row Now Ophelia, she's
[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] I ask because I've said in a number of posts that the longer I meditate, the less overshadowed I am. And certainly MMY teaches that it's a gradual process, so I'm not sure why any TMer would hold that belief. MMY teaches that it is GENERALLY a gradual process, IIRC. Right. So why would any TMer hold the belief that it was (generally or always) *not* a gradual process? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 9/27/05 7:13 PM, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip To hold, as some appear to, that we meditate for 20-30 years and then one day, the room goes from total darkness to total light, is funny, in a charming way. So to the extent people keep insisting IT is already there, they are correct -- to a degree. It comes and goes. Or more corectly, though still inaccurately, we move into it, and then get bounced out. And it's definitely progressive, as you suggest later. There are gradual paths and there are sudden paths. As I believe I said. Above, I was describing my own experience. You snipped the part (without noting it) that made this clear, apparently to make it appear I was making a general statement that you could correct. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi refuses to Levitate.??
On 9/28/05 4:05 AM, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason Spock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hari Om, I heard that, in an interview, Maharishi refused to Levitate. He reasoned that he had already achieved Unity consciousness and there was no need for him to prove himself.!! Many commentaries on the Yoga sutras make this point. What point is that? Can you give an example? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip The map is not the territory. I think what's going on here is that Judy is more attached to being able to say, Ah...finally...I have the map, than in actually getting to the place it points to. And the last couple of days that's been striking me as just hilarious, side-splittingly funny. It seems to me that your need to find me hilariously funny (or at least to *say* so publicly) is leading you to make up all this stuff about what's going on with me so you have something to laugh at, instead of seeing what is *actually* going on with me. For example: snip If what one wanted to do was measure such a thing scientifically, that sounds like a good definition. If what one wanted was a happy life, I'd say it was pretty darned unproductive, because you couldd be setting up for yourself the same kind of self-imposed misery Judy's wallowing in. This *I* find hilarious. Not only am I not even remotely miserable, I'm happier than I've ever been and continue to be more so as time goes on. Barry, you made up wallowing in misery. You jest at scars that never felt a wound. That's something you have talked yourself into believing--or at least think will make you look good and me look bad to say here. That notion comes entirely from *your need*, not from my reality. And for the record: I would say that experience was far more real than understanding. The more experiences I have of higher states of attention, the less I understand. And the happier I am. Go figure. This is my experience as well. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rory: How do you know this is impossible, Judy, if you haven't tried it? Judy: Oh, for heaven's sake, of course I've tried it. Rory: Yes? With whom? I hope you had company. Most people find it far easier and more effective the first few times if they are accompanied by a guide, rebirther or the like: one who has traversed and integrated the ignorance themselves. The ignorance can indeed be pretty damned scary to go into alone at first. Oh, so now I have to have a guide. Have to? No, not at all. Some don't. It can just make it easier, particularly if one feels (as you seem to) that it is actually undoable, that you have tried it and failed. Who is going to make or allow that slight but crucial adjustment if not you? Judy: What you are you talking about? Rory: Just you. Judy: And what on earth leads you to think that it's something you *make*? Rory: If not you, then who? Emphasis on make, Rory. Try again. I am intentionally putting the emphasis on you rather than on *make*, as angle lies somewhere in between or inclusive of both *make* and *allow* :-) When (if ever) do you plan to make or allow it? Judy: I plan to let it happen whenever it's ready to happen. Rory: How will you know when it is ready to happen? I won't know until it happens. How are you going to let it happen if you won't know until it happens? Who do you think is going to do this for you? Time? :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!
On 9/28/05 9:50 AM, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As I believe I said. Above, I was describing my own experience. You snipped the part (without noting it) that made this clear, apparently to make it appear I was making a general statement that you could correct. Yes it was a technique I learned at the Judy Stein Conspiracy Conference, which of course is held secretly. We are all conspiring secretly to undermine you via selective snipping of your emails--but you're just so quick! I've even tried putting in typos to distract you, but to no avail. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip For me the word Awake is pretty simple and conveys my understanding that PC is in the foreground all the time along with whatever else is going on. But it doesn't work universally as a metaphor, again because people think in terms of opposites, and polarities. When most people hear the word 'awake,' in the back of their minds they think that the antonym is 'asleep,' as in deep sleep, as in the absence of all subjective experience. This doesn't map to the distinction between 'before realization' and 'after realization.' In my observation, when this metaphor is used the antonym tends to be dreaming, not deep sleep, which is a much closer mapping. (Not perefect, because when you wake up from a dream, you don't usually say, Oh, now I see that I was really awake the whole time.) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip The only reason it is said in advaitist circles that we are already enlightened is that from the perspective of the experience of the non-dual state it is recognized it was always like this, this is an unborn state, it was always sparkling through, I just didn't get it. The problem arises when people who try to extrapolate the statement we are already enlightened bass-ackwards from waking state POV and proclaim I am already enlightened. Precisely. It ain't backwards-compatible. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] I ask because I've said in a number of posts that the longer I meditate, the less overshadowed I am. And certainly MMY teaches that it's a gradual process, so I'm not sure why any TMer would hold that belief. MMY teaches that it is GENERALLY a gradual process, IIRC. Right. So why would any TMer hold the belief that it was (generally or always) *not* a gradual process? Our experience is that it is gradual until it is not. I am offering the not :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And for the record: I would say that experience was far more real than understanding. The more experiences I have of higher states of attention, the less I understand. And the happier I am. Go figure. This is my experience as well. Yes, I love this about you :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And for the record: I would say that experience was far more real than understanding. The more experiences I have of higher states of attention, the less I understand. And the happier I am. Go figure. This is my experience as well. Well, good for you. I'll put a star next to your name on the list of kindergarten students. Earn ten stars and you get to be hall monitor. If you were attempting to make me find you less amusing, I am afraid the attempt was a dismal failure. :-) It's not just you. I've been finding that more and more of the posts here make me laugh. I see this as progress. Your mileage may vary... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dylan on PBS
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip But when the performance was over, the Gift departed and would not translate itself into any other form. So Dylan was left inarticulate, ordinary, not interesting at all. His recent autobiography, however, has received pretty good reviews. A section of a chapter about New Orleans was just posted on the Web, and I thought it was fascinating--not just about New Orleans but about Dylan himself, in terms of how he saw New Orleans (before the flood, obviously). Maybe the ability to do words without music has developed gradually; or maybe he has no trouble writing, just speaking. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
Judy: I plan to let it happen whenever it's ready to happen. Rory: How will you know when it is ready to happen? I won't know until it happens. How are you going to let it happen if you won't know until it happens? Who do you think is going to do this for you? Time? Scotty. :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Judy: And what on earth leads you to think that it's something you *make*? Rory: If not you, then who? Emphasis on make, Rory. Try again. I am intentionally putting the emphasis on you rather than on *make*, as angle lies somewhere in between or inclusive of both *make* and *allow* :-) What on earth leads you to think that it has anything to do with make? When (if ever) do you plan to make or allow it? Judy: I plan to let it happen whenever it's ready to happen. Rory: How will you know when it is ready to happen? I won't know until it happens. How are you going to let it happen if you won't know until it happens? Huh? Why do I have to know in advance? Who do you think is going to do this for you? Time? Transcending regularly, then acting. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 9/28/05 9:50 AM, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As I believe I said. Above, I was describing my own experience. You snipped the part (without noting it) that made this clear, apparently to make it appear I was making a general statement that you could correct. Yes it was a technique I learned at the Judy Stein Conspiracy Conference, which of course is held secretly. We are all conspiring secretly to undermine you via selective snipping of your emails--but you're just so quick! I've even tried putting in typos to distract you, but to no avail. Actually most folks here are pretty good about not snipping crucial context, and about indicating it when they do snip something. As I said, I had already made the point you made in your response, and I had made it clear immediately before the part you *did* quote that I was speaking about my own experience. Perhaps you could explain why you made those snips, if not for the reason I suggested. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Judy: And what on earth leads you to think that it's something you *make*? Rory: If not you, then who? Emphasis on make, Rory. Try again. I am intentionally putting the emphasis on you rather than on *make*, as angle lies somewhere in between or inclusive of both *make* and *allow* :-) What on earth leads you to think that it has anything to do with make? What on earth leads you to think that it doesn't? When (if ever) do you plan to make or allow it? Judy: I plan to let it happen whenever it's ready to happen. Rory: How will you know when it is ready to happen? I won't know until it happens. How are you going to let it happen if you won't know until it happens? Huh? Why do I have to know in advance? Yeah, exactly. Who do you think is going to do this for you? Time? Transcending regularly, then acting. OK, good luck with that... *end transmission* :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And for the record: I would say that experience was far more real than understanding. The more experiences I have of higher states of attention, the less I understand. And the happier I am. Go figure. This is my experience as well. Well, good for you. I'll put a star next to your name on the list of kindergarten students. Earn ten stars and you get to be hall monitor. If you were attempting to make me find you less amusing, I am afraid the attempt was a dismal failure. :-) Knock yourself out. I didn't expect that you would change your fantasies about me just because I pointed out that they were entirely divorced from reality. You *need* to think of me as being miserable and as focusing entirely on understanding rather than experience. If I were you, I'd look into that need. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dylan on PBS
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip But when the performance was over, the Gift departed and would not translate itself into any other form. So Dylan was left inarticulate, ordinary, not interesting at all. His recent autobiography, however, has received pretty good reviews. A section of a chapter about New Orleans was just posted on the Web, and I thought it was fascinating--not just about New Orleans but about Dylan himself, in terms of how he saw New Orleans (before the flood, obviously). Maybe the ability to do words without music has developed gradually; or maybe he has no trouble writing, just speaking. I haven't seen the interviews in question, but the ones I have seen from that period do not suggest that he was in any way inarticulate, merely so mind- boggled by the stupidity of the questions and the questioners that he blew both off more often than not. You saw the same thing in John Lennon. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Akasha: Does it strike anyone else as funny, even absurd, that the whole paradigm about enlightenment on this list is dichotomous, digital, either on or off? Unc: YES! That's exactly the issue. I realized that some time back, during the discussions about 'appreciation.' Some comment by, I think, Tom made me completely abandon my old paradigm and come up with a new one that more accurately described my subjective experience. A: Pure consciousness begins from the first mediation. If not before. U: Before. There has never been a moment in my life when I was not enlightened. If you were jivna-mukti at birth, you had not need to incarnate. A serious point per my prior post. People can dilute, devalue, reclassify, and redefine E criteria all they want. But if they come back, they were wrong. So much for bodhisatvas? I have long suggested that we run some tests on the self- proclaimed Es. Push'em off a cliff. And if they don't come back, we will celebrate their saintliness. MMY once commented, or so I am told, that the sidhis would be an eye- opener to many who felt they were fully enlightened. Pun not intended... How do you know he was/is right? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!
Akasha: Pure consciousness begins from the first mediation. If not before. Uuc: Before. There has never been a moment in my life when I was not enlightened. A: That's the one point on all of this where I think we differ. Again, I see no value in labels such as enlightenment. But it appears to me your reporting is what you did below, when the 24/7 witnessing made it impossible not to appreciate. Since then, that witnessing has slipped from foreground to background many times Terming that as E, to me, goes beyond reportiing. its labeling. And since it differs from what many understand that term to be, it simply promotes miscommunication. U: I just never appreciated it until a three-week period in Fiuggi, when the 24/7 wit- nessing made it impossible not to appreciate. Since then, that witnessing has slipped from foreground to background many times, but what I realized during the 'appreciation' discussion is that it has always been present. What I realized when I first appreciated it was that it had *always* been present. A: yes, all that is good. And similar. But if one wanted to play the labels game, it would seem that when the attention of Awareness (of awareness) slips from foreground to background, its not E. But I think E labels are bogus, so who cares. Claim all you want. :) U: No claims, merely reporting. And having fun. A: Well, fun is good. This discussion is fun and not a challenge. And resonable people can view the same things differently. But labels (above) is different from a term which can facilite communication. Some don't appear to distinguish between labels and terms, which seems unfortunate. The term E is a rolled up abstraction. A symbol for some experience. When all share the same understanding of the symbol, it can facilitate communication. When people make up their own definitions, which is fine IMO, but without clearly demarcing how such differs from common usage, the symbol loses its value, it becomes counter productive. So while I agree with Tom, in a later post, that some commonly agreed upon terminology is good. Which is my whole whole point here. And, agreeing with Tom, its nice to have a concise term and not a 50 word discriptor and 50 word disclaiamer. It just seem that using a symbol, particularly ones with heavy baggage and multiple and different connotations to many people, is not productive. E is such, and I find Awake hs become such. And as Unc points out, if the symbol has an opposite, has most do. Both are counter productive, IMO. Thus I favor just saying what is, instead of relying on unreliable intermediary symbols. For example, constant foreground PC expresses a specific state, is relatively concise (could be shortened to CFPC), and is immediately distinguishable from Variable Foreground PC or Oscillating Foreground PC. And is clearly distinguishable from Unity Brahman states where All is experienced / understood as CFPC, That Brahman is the same as THIS Atman. I have no issue, if its relevant to a discussion for someone to say CFPC is there. No label or title, just concise terminology. Much clearer and cleaner than I am E U: And when you lighten up about it, you can bring it from background to foreground any time you want. It's just the neatest thing. A: YES. And it is always accessable. It is bitchin. Still, in that stage, I would hold that is not E. If I was playing the label game. U: I no longer make that distinction. A: Thats fine, but it implies that you hold that any initial experience of PC is E. Which is in a way true. you are a knower of reality. But since for some then E means PC, for some CC and others BC. Its then not a particularly precise term. And it has label baggage. U: a few fairly foolproof methods of bringing it from back- ground to foreground anytime I want. A: I think VAj's non-meditation , relates to this. U: The thing is, I rarely want to. As someone -- perhaps you -- said in these discussions, there is no difference. The wanting there to be one feels false, A: I don't experience want in making that transition. Though I understand how a logical proof could indicate it must be there. Its just its not there in my experience. U: The thing that brought it from background to foreground most recently was, strangely enough, watching an old movie on DVD. A: But I hope too you have recognized mush simpler and instantaneous methods. U: The map is not the territory. I think what's going on here is that Judy is more attached to being able to say, Ah...finally...I have the map, than in actually getting to the place it points to. A: I think its way easier and productive to talk about oneself than to try to diagnose what one percieves to be anohter's problems and issues. Doing such is an indication of projection going on, often unbeknownst to the projector. U: And the last couple of
[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!
Akasha: yes. Reminds me of EST. Judy: Even est had a method to sort of shock people into it. The whole training was one big koan, it seems to me: the first weekend, they convinced you that you had total control over everything; the second weekend, they convinced you that you had no control over anything. Actually they *demonstrated* both were the case, in turn. That quasi-experiential contradiction was enough, apparently, to push some folks into the gap, to get it. And it seems that for at least a few, it stuck. At any rate, it wasn't a decision, really. You were pretty much forced into it. That makes some sense to me, but it wasn't universally effective. Some folks never got it, and for others it made a big difference for a while but then faded. I did think the approach was ingenious. (Caveat: I never took the training, but I had several friends who did and talked to them about it a great deal, also read about it a lot. The above is what it seemed to me to boil down to. Graduates would probably rake me over the coals for thinking I had any idea of what was involved.) Like you I never took it but talked to a number of people and friends who did. My general point at the time was that words and mind games might give some glimpse but is not permanent, not deep. For that you need to refine the physiology. Over the years, I am more open to lots of tools. I reacted against the AoL cheesy, new age exercises -- staring and all, initially. After a while, I found most provided some benefit. All woven together, even more. But used without some transcendental sadhana, they seem limited. (Fortunately AoL has such.) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip I also find that the more often/longer Awareness is present, the more of a pain it is when it goes away. Still laughing uncontrollably. It's all about what you want rather than what is. That's the way it is when Awareness is not present. If you only learned to appreciate what already is, you'd have what you want. That's the way it is when Awareness *is* present. Then I have the ability to appreciate what is. And that's why it's a pain when Awareness goes away and I no longer have that ability. The longer you wants it, the further away it gets. Not in my experience. As I said, Awareness has become more and more present and for longer and longer periods. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Thus I favor just saying what is, instead of relying on unreliable intermediary symbols. For example, constant foreground PC expresses a specific state, is relatively concise (could be shortened to CFPC), and is immediately distinguishable from Variable Foreground PC or Oscillating Foreground PC. What's the matter with MMY's term CC? That's just how he defines it. (Forget the spelled-out version, which is pretty meaningless.) Or witnessing, if you're not talking about *permanent* CFPC. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'll order some pizza from cave service and think about it over lunch. :-) Dude, if you are living in Paris and you order up take-out pizza -- you are not only way UnAwake, you are a gastronomic baffoon. :) Yesterday the seminar I was attending was at the Ritz. Had I ordered pizza from their room service, you can rest assured that it would have been better than anything you could find at *any* restaurant in the US other than about a dozen of them. :-) Actually, I lived in France for 3 or so months in 1970. French food was good, but a group of friends and I often frequented a great Italian Pizzeria. But in visiting Paris several times in the 90s +, I found some awesome cuisine and some so so. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Request for Christian or other clergy who have a good...
In a message dated 9/26/05 5:13:58 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: A friend is working on a TM project and is looking for clergy who ideally practice TM and have something nice to say about it. Let me know if you know anyone along these lines. RonJesus H. Christ. Always wondered what the "H" stands for. Hirschell, Herman, Harry? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dylan on PBS
Yes, that's right. Some of the questions were extremely stupid and deserved the response they got, but others were more thoughtful and valid. In a sense, like many great artists, Dylan did not really know what he was doing; he just did it. Others, like Ginsberg, for example, could be much more articulate about their own work. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip But when the performance was over, the Gift departed and would not translate itself into any other form. So Dylan was left inarticulate, ordinary, not interesting at all. His recent autobiography, however, has received pretty good reviews. A section of a chapter about New Orleans was just posted on the Web, and I thought it was fascinating--not just about New Orleans but about Dylan himself, in terms of how he saw New Orleans (before the flood, obviously). Maybe the ability to do words without music has developed gradually; or maybe he has no trouble writing, just speaking. I haven't seen the interviews in question, but the ones I have seen from that period do not suggest that he was in any way inarticulate, merely so mind- boggled by the stupidity of the questions and the questioners that he blew both off more often than not. You saw the same thing in John Lennon. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Akasha: yes. Reminds me of EST. Judy: Even est had a method to sort of shock people into it. The whole training was one big koan, it seems to me: the first weekend, they convinced you that you had total control over everything; the second weekend, they convinced you that you had no control over anything. Actually they *demonstrated* both were the case, in turn. That quasi-experiential contradiction was enough, apparently, to push some folks into the gap, to get it. And it seems that for at least a few, it stuck. At any rate, it wasn't a decision, really. You were pretty much forced into it. That makes some sense to me, but it wasn't universally effective. Some folks never got it, and for others it made a big difference for a while but then faded. I did think the approach was ingenious. (Caveat: I never took the training, but I had several friends who did and talked to them about it a great deal, also read about it a lot. The above is what it seemed to me to boil down to. Graduates would probably rake me over the coals for thinking I had any idea of what was involved.) Like you I never took it but talked to a number of people and friends who did. My general point at the time was that words and mind games might give some glimpse but is not permanent, not deep. For that you need to refine the physiology. I would agree, but suggest that some few people's physiology was already so refined that all they needed was the nudge to awaken permanently. I had the very strong sense that Werner Erhard was enlightened, in CC at least--could be wrong, of course--and by his own account, it happened very suddenly, while he was driving on the freeway. Apparently he then tried to work backward to figure out how he had gotten there, and then how to recreate it for others. He had done some Zen, as I recall, and several other approaches--which may have helped refine *his* physiology--and he attempted to sort of put together bits and pieces of what he thought had worked for him, although I'm pretty sure he would have vehemently rejected the idea of physiological refinement having anything to do with anything. My understanding is that for a small number of people--several of whom subsequently became est trainers--it really was a permanent transformation. I don't know whether they'd done other stuff first, though. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Societies worse off 'when they have God on their side'
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: global warming = fewer hurricanes
In a message dated 9/26/05 6:00:53 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Er,hadn't the treaty already been signed? I don't think so, at least the senate had overwhelmingly refused to ratify it. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Akasha: Pure consciousness begins from the first mediation. If not before. Uuc: Before. There has never been a moment in my life when I was not enlightened. A: That's the one point on all of this where I think we differ. Again, I see no value in labels such as enlightenment. But it appears to me your reporting is what you did below, when the 24/7 witnessing made it impossible not to appreciate. Since then, that witnessing has slipped from foreground to background many times Terming that as E, to me, goes beyond reportiing. its labeling. And since it differs from what many understand that term to be, it simply promotes miscommunication. Fine. I've already told you that the only reason I was using the E word was because it was already in play in the thread. I don't think that way. Call it enkughtenment if you like. :-) U: I just never appreciated it until a three-week period in Fiuggi, when the 24/7 wit- nessing made it impossible not to appreciate. Since then, that witnessing has slipped from foreground to background many times, but what I realized during the 'appreciation' discussion is that it has always been present. What I realized when I first appreciated it was that it had *always* been present. A: yes, all that is good. And similar. But if one wanted to play the labels game... Why on EARTH would anyone want to do that? :-) ...it would seem that when the attention of Awareness (of awareness) slips from foreground to background, its not E. Enlightenment or enkughtenment? You have to be specific if you want to play the label game. :-) But I think E labels are bogus, so who cares. Claim all you want. :) U: No claims, merely reporting. And having fun. A: Well, fun is good. This discussion is fun and not a challenge. And resonable people can view the same things differently. If more people realized that, more discussions would be more fun. :-) But labels (above) is different from a term which can facilite communication. Some don't appear to distinguish between labels and terms, which seems unfortunate. The term E is a rolled up abstraction. A symbol for some experience. When all share the same understanding of the symbol, it can facilitate communication. What makes you believe that they all share the same *experience*, and thus can agree on a symbol for it? When people make up their own definitions, which is fine IMO, but without clearly demarcing how such differs from common usage, the symbol loses its value, it becomes counter productive. Again, you seem to be assuming that everyone who realizes enlightenment is experiencing the same thing. I make no such assumption. So while I agree with Tom, in a later post, that some commonly agreed upon terminology is good. Only if you feel that you are of necessity discussing the exact same experience. Which is my whole whole point here. Thanks. I had wondered. :-) And, agreeing with Tom, its nice to have a concise term and not a 50 word discriptor and 50 word disclaiamer. I've already proposed enkughtenment. It works very well on the other forum. :-) It just seem that using a symbol, particularly ones with heavy baggage and multiple and different connotations to many people, is not productive. E is such, and I find Awake hs become such. And as Unc points out, if the symbol has an opposite, has most do. Both are counter productive, IMO. Koan of the day: what is the antonym of enkughtenment? Thus I favor just saying what is, instead of relying on unreliable intermediary symbols. For example, constant foreground PC expresses a specific state, is relatively concise (could be shortened to CFPC), and is immediately distinguishable from Variable Foreground PC or Oscillating Foreground PC. And is clearly distinguishable from Unity Brahman states where All is experienced / understood as CFPC, That Brahman is the same as THIS Atman. Whatever floats your boat. In my view, all of these distinctions imply a belief in a somewhat linear pro- gression and a hierarchy of higher or fuller experiences of enkughtenment. Boring. Enkughtenment is its own reward, and attempts to bag what level of enkughtenment one has attained tend to be rewarded with enpieinfacement. :-) I have no issue, if its relevant to a discussion for someone to say CFPC is there. No label or title, just concise terminology. Much clearer and cleaner than I am E Whatever floats your boat. U: And when you lighten up about it, you can bring it from background to foreground any time you want. It's just the neatest thing. A: YES. And it is always accessable. It is bitchin. Still, in that stage, I would hold that is not E. If I was playing the label game. U: I no longer make
[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Thus I favor just saying what is, instead of relying on unreliable intermediary symbols. For example, constant foreground PC expresses a specific state, is relatively concise (could be shortened to CFPC), and is immediately distinguishable from Variable Foreground PC or Oscillating Foreground PC. What's the matter with MMY's term CC? That's just how he defines it. (Forget the spelled-out version, which is pretty meaningless.) Or witnessing, if you're not talking about *permanent* CFPC. I think cc was a useful symbol for many years. Then in my view, it began to be copted. People focussed on their own defintions. Many flavors arose. It became a hodge podge IMO. Several times over the past 3 years, six months ago was the last foray, for the sake of terminology, and fun, I tried to pin people down on their defrinitions and whethere various attrributes were necessary and/or suffiecint for E. For example, is the experience of no I both a necessary and sufficent criteria. Is constant foreground PC a sufficnet criteria for CC? Is absence of anger (per many scriptural references) a necessary criteria? I carried on a number of rounds of this, and could never get anyone, including all the proclaimers, to commit. But some good twisting the tables and making the discussion all about why I am a retard (paraphrsing) for seeking and not Getting IT. All good fun. Thus I have concluded that symbols, particularly when multiple atributes and/or criteria may be associated with the symbol, are not useful terms. And are always useless as labels. Thus I like direct descriptors. CFPC, No-I. equinimity in all situations. Much better terms to describe a state than symbols like CC and E. The latter are so nebulous they raise more questions than they resolve when used as terms. About as useful as saying, I experience [blackbox]. Or I experience X. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Request for Christian or other clergy who have a good...
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 9/26/05 5:13:58 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Jesus H. Christ. Always wondered what the H stands for. Hirschell, Herman, Harry? The definitive answer is to be found in Christopher Moore's novel, Lamb: The Gospel According to Biff, Christ's Chilhood Pal. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dylan on PBS
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip But when the performance was over, the Gift departed and would not translate itself into any other form. So Dylan was left inarticulate, ordinary, not interesting at all. His recent autobiography, however, has received pretty good reviews. A section of a chapter about New Orleans was just posted on the Web, and I thought it was fascinating--not just about New Orleans but about Dylan himself, in terms of how he saw New Orleans (before the flood, obviously). Maybe the ability to do words without music has developed gradually; or maybe he has no trouble writing, just speaking. I haven't seen the interviews in question, but the ones I have seen from that period do not suggest that he was in any way inarticulate, merely so mind- boggled by the stupidity of the questions and the questioners that he blew both off more often than not. snip This was pretty much my take on him as well :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Is constant foreground PC a sufficnet criteria for CC? That's how MMY defines it (if it's permanent); witnessing can apply to temporary experiences (CC being 24-hour permanent witnessing). It's a symbol, but for a very specific experience. I don't see that your four- letter job is any better, as long as we know what the definition of CC is. That's all I'm saying. I agree with you that a lot of the other terms are problematic. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Dylan on PBS
I think all of this speculating on why he wasn't more articulate during interviews really misses the point. He hated them, pure and simple. He, like many great artists as well as most others, was much more comfortable in small groups. He kept saying over and over, in his music as well as when speaking, that he didn't want any mantle or didn't want to be cast as the leader of any movement. And last but not least, he was all of 23 or so when most of the footage shown was taking place. He was very obviously uncomfortable and embarrassed by the role was being forced to play as well as all the attention. Nobody I know likes to talk about the creative processes they go through when they are doing something they love, least of all in front of large groups. How many could have done any better at that point in their lives? The Beatles gave the same goofy kinds of interviews at the start of their careers, but they at least had the advantage of having each other for some moral support. In the more recent interviews he was clearly more at ease, but those were done only talking to the one person who was interviewing him, or at least that was the impression I got. Sal On Sep 28, 2005, at 9:04 AM, authfriend wrote: > But when the performance was over, the Gift > departed and would not translate itself into > any other form. So Dylan was left inarticulate, > ordinary, not interesting at all. His recent autobiography, however, has received pretty good reviews. A section of a chapter about New Orleans was just posted on the Web, and I thought it was fascinating--not just about New Orleans but about Dylan himself, in terms of how he saw New Orleans (before the flood, obviously). Maybe the ability to do words without music has developed gradually; or maybe he has no trouble writing, just speaking.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Dylan on PBS
Ginsburg was quite a bit oder when those interviews took place, and more confident as a result. He also never got anywhere near the kind of attention Dylan did. Sal On Sep 28, 2005, at 9:55 AM, feste37 wrote: Others, like Ginsberg, for example, could be much more articulate about their own work.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip I also find that the more often/longer Awareness is present, the more of a pain it is when it goes away. Still laughing uncontrollably. It's all about what you want rather than what is. That's the way it is when Awareness is not present. If you only learned to appreciate what already is, you'd have what you want. That's the way it is when Awareness *is* present. Then I have the ability to appreciate what is. And that's why it's a pain when Awareness goes away and I no longer have that ability. To expand a bit: You said in another post that it feels false to you to want a higher state of attention. My experience is that it feels false to me to try to *create* appreciation for what already is. The appreciation is either there, or it isn't, spontaneously; and its presence and absence are very precisely correlated with the presence and absence of Awareness. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dylan on PBS
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ginsburg was quite a bit oder when those interviews took place, and more confident as a result. He also never got anywhere near the kind of attention Dylan did. On the other hand, the actor Sir Laurence Olivier was *never* able to be articulate about how he did what he did on stage or in front of the cameras. He didn't even seem to realize there could be anything to say about it; it appeared to puzzle the hell out of him that people would ask probing questions about it. The peculiar thing was that he was the most *studied* of actors. There was very little spontaneity in his performances, as superb as they could be. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Is constant foreground PC a sufficnet criteria for CC? That's how MMY defines it (if it's permanent); witnessing can apply to temporary experiences (CC being 24-hour permanent witnessing). It's a symbol, but for a very specific experience. I don't see that your four- letter job is any better, as long as we know what the definition of CC is. That's all I'm saying. I agree with you that a lot of the other terms are problematic. Good. But what is your definition of CC? (but define it in a non-seeking way :) ) Can you now get universal consensus on this list for that definition? If so, I will re-sign up for the value of the term cc. Till, then I am think specific attribute desribptors are clearer. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip I also find that the more often/longer Awareness is present, the more of a pain it is when it goes away. Still laughing uncontrollably. It's all about what you want rather than what is. That's the way it is when Awareness is not present. If you only learned to appreciate what already is, you'd have what you want. That's the way it is when Awareness *is* present. Then I have the ability to appreciate what is. And that's why it's a pain when Awareness goes away and I no longer have that ability. To expand a bit: You said in another post that it feels false to you to want a higher state of attention. Not so much false as completely unproductive. To do so takes one out of Now and into the realm of an imagined future that would be better if certain conditions were met. It's the issue of those I'd rather be ... bumper stickers I mentioned recently. The state of mind of I'd rather be ... is by definition not appreciating the Now, and setting up a set of circumstances that would warrant appreciation. In my experience, those who talk a lot about how things would be better in some imagined future if only suchandsuch would happen wind up never finding that future, and creating a series of Nows that are never perceived as fulfilling, because they're always waiting for suchandsuch. This is *particularly* true for those for whom suchandsuch = enlightenment, because they cannot possibly imagine what enlightenment is. If they could, they would be appreciating its presence right here, right Now, because it's already present, right here, right Now. Therefore they're not only putting off appreciation of Now until suchandsuch happens, but they are *imagining* what suchandsuch IS. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!
Akasha: Terming that as E, to me, goes beyond reporting. its labeling. And since it differs from what many understand that term to be, it simply promotes miscommunication. Unc: Fine. I've already told you that the only reason I was using the E word was because it was already in play in the thread. I don't think that way. Call it enkughtenment if you like. :-) A: I know. Some comments are not directly focused on You (which I am sure weakens the exposition given you are clealy the most interesting thing to talk about : ) ). Some are just points being made, relevant to the topic and thread. But its is a good call. When doing such, its good to clarify I am making a general point here, and not talking specifically about you... U: No claims, merely reporting. And having fun. A: Well, fun is good. This discussion is fun and not a challenge. And resonable people can view the same things differently. U: If more people realized that, more discussions would be more fun. :-) A: Yes. Fun is good. Clarifying is good. Provocative POVs can be good. Insights are good. Letting go is good. Jabbing people is not so good. Responding to jabs is not so good. Diagnosing motives in others is not so good. Unsolicited advice is not so good. Pontification (like I am doing here) is not so good. :) A: But labels (above) is different from a term which can facilite communication. Some don't appear to distinguish between labels and terms, which seems unfortunate. The term E is a rolled up abstraction. A symbol for so me experience. When all share the same understanding of the symbol, it can facilitate communication. U: What makes you believe that they all share the *experience*, and thus can agree on a symbol for it? A: Ah, a many paths, many peaks guy. I am pretty open to that. But I think you are making the same point. For many reasons, not all share the same understanding of the symbol, and perhaps are describing a different experience, and thus broad semantic symbols in metaphysical discussions usually do not facilitate communication. A: When people make up their own definitions, which is fine IMO, but without clearly demarcing how such differs from common usage, the symbol loses its value, it becomes counter productive. U: Again, you seem to be assuming that everyone who realizes enlightenment is experiencing the same thing. I make no such assumption. A:No, that assumptions is not necessary for the above view. And second, I am not even making that assumption. A: So while I agree with Tom, in a later post, that some commonly agreed upon terminology is good. U: Only if you feel that you are of necessity discussing the exact same experience. A: Well thats sort of the point. Is Foreground PC often present for you? Me too. So we can talk about FPC. Thus FPC is a useful term that facilitates communication. Same convo, different terms. yogi 1: I am enlightened. yogi 2: I am not. and you are an arrogant pompous ass for proclaiming such. 1: You just dont get it dude. 2: Your mother dont get it dude! I get it cuz i am beyond seeking for empty concepts. 1: Thats because you are not special and not enlightened. When you join the club, you will get it 2: F you. 1: no F you!! And your sister is ugly. - I think think the first convo is more useful. You may not. Go figure. Which is my whole whole point here. Thanks. I had wondered. :-) yes, your mind does seem fuzzy. :) A: And, agreeing with Tom, its nice to have a concise term and not a 50 word discriptor and 50 word disclaiamer. U: I've already proposed enkughtenment. It works very well on the other forum. :-) A: I would not think it would wrok well here in that people would still have many different connoations for the word. Does it mean no-I? CFPC Deep and cosntant compassion Equinamity in all conditions? Allof these? Any of these? Some of these? None of these. It just seem that using a symbol, particularly ones with heavy baggage and multiple and different connotations to many people, is not productive. E is such, and I find Awake hs become such. And as Unc points out, if the symbol has an opposite, has most do. Both are counter productive, IMO. Koan of the day: what is the antonym of enkughtenment? tnemnethgukne. duh :) Thus I favor just saying what is, instead of relying on unreliable intermediary symbols. For example, constant foreground PC expresses a specific state, is relatively concise (could be shortened to CFPC), and is immediately distinguishable from Variable Foreground PC or Oscillating Foreground PC. And is clearly distinguishable from Unity Brahman states where All is experienced / understood as CFPC, That Brahman is the same as THIS Atman. Whatever floats your boat. In my view, all of these distinctions imply a belief in a somewhat linear pro- gression and a hierarchy of
[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A: Ah, then we seem to be talking the same thing. Its odd though, I keep saying no labels, enjoy the (non)-trip and you keep saying if you drop the labels, then you can enjoy the continuum. Sounds the same to me. But the tone seems argumentative, in a friendly way. Perhaps its a classic case of presuming (falsely) what the other is thinking. Actually, I'm just having fun. I *only* engage in discussions of enlightenment for fun, because I honestly don't believe that anything more can or should be expected of them. They're just a bunch of hot air moving around, accomplishing nothing. And that's FINE, as long as you know that what you're doing is just moving around hot air, for the express purpose of having fun. If one of the parties believes that something's going to actually be settled or accomplished as a result of moving all that air around, for me it becomes less fun. Actually, I think its more each of us responding to snippets, without focusing on the forest -- what is this guys main point, beyond his snippet response raps. I may be a harder case than that. I don't particularly CARE what the other person's point is in discussions of enlightenment, because I don't think that there are any points TO be made, other than having fun. This implies no disrespect for the person spouting their particular theories, merely a disbelief that the theories have anything whatsoever to do with reality. I think clear terms can facilitate discussion. U: But what does the discussion facilitate? A: Well, it happens. its value -- maybe none. But you suggested you have gained great value from recent discussions here. So you tell me. Something someone said triggered a train of thought that resulted in a different way of seeing. That was fun. The new way of seeing -- the new theory about enlightenment and my own experiences -- is more fun for me to entertain, because it covers more bases than the previous incarnations of the theory. But it's still a theory, and thus, when talking about enlightenment -- WRONG. I *assume* that it is wrong. I entertain such theories merely for amusement purposes, not to convince myself that they are correct. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!
Judy: To expand a bit: You said in another post that it feels false to you to want a higher state of attention. Unc: Not so much false as completely unproductive. To do so takes one out of Now Akahsa: Then perhaps the attention that can maintain PC in foreground is not so strong and flexible yet. It can grow stronger and let one think and do many things without losing the foreground view. I know this is not news. But your experience appears fragile. Don't dispair It can grow stronger. :) U: The state of mind of I'd rather be ... is by definition not appreciating the Now, and setting up a set of circumstances that would warrant appreciation. A: But tools and stable states are different. Coming back to the Now is a powerful tool. When Presence is strong in the foreground, the mind is alway present, and be so so even when focusing is on planning -- which is just content -- no different in essential structure than present content. The distinction is does the mind get sucked into wanting feeling it needs something more to be satisfied? Then coming back to the presnt is a powerful tool. When the mind is content and doesn't feel a need for more to be complete, then any content can be maintained along with Presence. Thats my experience. Your NS maybe wired differently. Your implied premise appears, I may be wrong, is that Judy is in that fragile state. Maybe she is maybe she isn't. Offering absolute emphatic advice without know, seems iffy. U: In my experience, those who talk a lot about how things would be better in some imagined future if only suchandsuch would happen wind up never finding that future, and creating a series of Nows that are never perceived as fulfilling, because they're always waiting for suchandsuch. A: And you know there internal states,for sure? Or are you speculating thuis is the case? U: This is *particularly* true for those for whom suchandsuch = enlightenment, because they cannot possibly imagine what enlightenment is. A: Why not then just drop all discussions and concepts of E. Then, if suchandsuch is relevant to a discussion, suchandsuch can be discussed. U: If they could, they would be appreciating its presence right here, A: if they could is often symtematic of projection. It manifests as frequent correcting other peoples lives, when the real issue is, one is uncomfortble with some area in themselves that they are correcting in others. Probably doesn't apply to you. But projection is facinating. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!
--- akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip For example, is the experience of no I both a necessary and sufficent criteria. Is constant foreground PC a sufficnet criteria for CC? Is absence of anger (per many scriptural references) a necessary criteria? Of course I am from the no I school (now if that isn't a paradoxical statement). Any trace of I would indicate an observing ego and be indicative of avidya, not realization. Realization is not an experience. It is not within the domain of either subjective or objective experience. It is not of the mind. Ego can have no relationship with consciousness. Ego is created as pure consciousness collapses/projects and identifies with a time and space bound experience. The discussion becomes confusing because in avidya there is a confound between consciousness and ego: people think that ego is consciousness. It's not. Okay, I'm done for now! yahoogroups.com Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!
A: I think clear terms can facilitate discussion. U: But what does the discussion facilitate? A: Well, it happens. its value -- maybe none. But you suggested you have gained great value from recent discussions here. So you tell me. U: Something someone said triggered a train of thought that resulted in a different way of seeing. That was fun. The new way of seeing -- the new theory about enlightenment and my own experiences -- is more fun for me to entertain ... A: Yes. Thats similar to why I engage in some discussions -- asides from being neurotic and suffering compulsive disorders. :). Not to find Truth, or win consensus. But the process of reading posts can spark an idea or insight, and the process of translating that spark into words can teach one many things they did not know. The actual dialogue is sort of secondary and in the background. because it covers more bases than the previous incarnations of the theory. But it's still a theory, and thus, when talking about enlightenment -- WRONG. I *assume* that it is wrong. I entertain such theories merely for amusement purposes, not to convince myself that they are correct. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why not then just drop all discussions and concepts of E. NOW you're talking! :-) Have you ever had the experience (assuming that you've had long, stable periods of 24/7 witnessing, absolutely clear experiences of enlightenment, in which you've gotten to sit down and rap with some- one else who is also having that experience? Is there really anything to be said? In my exper- ience, there is not. You just sit around laughing a lot and talking about more interesting things. That's my kinda discussion... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!
Akasha: Why not then just drop all discussions and concepts of E. Unc: NOW you're talking! :-) A: Yes. I have been suggeting such for some time. But I appear to violate the rule at times because its interesting to me to understand what people mean when they introduce and use the E term, or proclaim it, or talk authoritatively about it. Knowing the pfofusion of meanings and POVs about E, asking about their views can be a facinating tour on how peoples minds work. Such discussions can stimulate thinking on peripheral insights not so connected to the E topic -- or on specific experiences. The slippery slope is that some assume, incorretly, that I am seeking E and give me all sorts of unsolicited and off target advice on what I am doing wrong in seeking E. Then being a retard, I sometimes get sucked into these off-target discussions. Which can be fun, but are usually quite a waste as far as generating new insights. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Dylan on PBS
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ginsburg was quite a bit oder when those interviews took place, and more confident as a result. He also never got anywhere near the kind of attention Dylan did. On the other hand, the actor Sir Laurence Olivier was *never* able to be articulate about how he did what he did on stage or in front of the cameras. FWIW, I seem to recall that drummer Buddy Rich, whilst he was guest star in Lucy Show, said, commenting on his playing, something like: I don't know what I'm doing, and if I knew what I'm doing, I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing. He didn't even seem to realize there could be anything to say about it; it appeared to puzzle the hell out of him that people would ask probing questions about it. The peculiar thing was that he was the most *studied* of actors. There was very little spontaneity in his performances, as superb as they could be. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] The Economics of Equality
Ask Aristotle Find an MP By postcode or place: By surname:Or browse the map How to use Aristotle Archive search Advanced search In this sectionBritain launches push for trade reform after last-minute deal on debt relief Why equality was the best policy Big bonuses go to rulers of aid empire Developing world confused by UK aid guidelines A matter of life and debt Larry Elliott: Africa's time has come - and may have gone British tax havens 'help cheat Third World out of billions' British tax havens 'help cheat Third World out of billions' Health aid doesn't reach the poor, says World Bank Letters: Geldof must not remain silent on the G8 trade stalemate Special report: development Why equality was the best policy The international community is still feeling the effects of Europe's colonisation of the New World, reports Heather Stewart Sunday September 25, 2005The Observer When Christopher Columbus stumbled across America in 1492, he opened the way to a centuries-long struggle between the European powers to control and dominate the New World, from the frozen north of Canada to the fertile plains of Argentina. But for the authors of a sweeping new report from the World Bank, the triumphant arrival of Columbus also inaugurated a real-life economic experiment, whose lessons are still relevant today. The authors of the World Development Report use a wealth of examples from across the globe and through the centuries, to prove that in general, fairer economies are more successful. Inequality is not only unfair - it also wastes resources and stifles economic progress. The Spaniards who colonised South America, with its gold and silver deposits and large indigenous population, were able to impose punitive taxes, slave labour, and political institutions that kept power in the hands of a wealthy few. Though enormously lucrative in the short term, this approach squandered resources, fostered political instability and handicapped the region's economies. In North America, meanwhile, where there was a sparse native population that refused to submit to slavery and no lucrative gold reserves to exploit, resources had to be divided more equally in order to keep the European settlers alive and happy. In Virginia, for example, by 1619 the Virginia Company had created 'a relatively egalitarian society, with representative institutions giving even the poorest colonists access to the law and some political representation'. That meant that even the poorest had a stake in the country's success: and it worked, laying the foundations for what would become the world's richest, most successful economy. 'As in Latin America, there was a synergy between economic and political institutions, but this time it was virtuous, not vicious.' Research suggests that 'good' institutions - those that divide resources relatively equally, and guarantee property rights - are more important in explaining the economic success or failure of a country than its geographical position, or whether it is ridden with diseases. 'Most of the gap between rich and poor countries today is due to differences in institutions.' Giving the poor a fair share in the economy is therefore the best recipe for success. Francisco Ferreira, the report's lead author, says this lesson has immediate relevance for today's developing countries. An increase in the gap between rich and poor is sometimes excused as an inevitable by-product of economic development, the price developing countries have to pay to climb out of poverty. But Ferreira says that's simply wrong: leaders who sit and wait for the mythical 'trickle-down effect' to pour wealth through the economy will fail. 'We hope this report will change the perception that people often have that the poor are almost charity cases, and the rest of the country generates growth,' he said. 'You shouldn't see those people as an ocean of unskilled labour. You should see them as a pool of potentially skilled individuals. Think how many brilliant inventors there could be in sub-Saharan Africa or in the slums of Latin America.' 'Some people tend to think of an alternative, between policies to redistribute, and policies to grow, and there's no such thing. There's a whole set of policies that can help growth by redistributing.' A jog through European history since the Middle Ages also supports the argument of Ferreira and his colleagues. In Britain, they argue that the industrial revolution only gave way to sustained long-term growth when mass democracy arrived in the 19th century. That helped to pave the way for more widely available education, and allowed more of Britain's population a share in its economic success. China's extraordinary emergence as an economic powerhouse - GDP per capital has quadrupled over the past 25 years - is also held up as an illustration of the importance of equity in supporting growth. Under Deng Xiaoping's leadership, in
[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip I also find that the more often/longer Awareness is present, the more of a pain it is when it goes away. Still laughing uncontrollably. It's all about what you want rather than what is. That's the way it is when Awareness is not present. If you only learned to appreciate what already is, you'd have what you want. That's the way it is when Awareness *is* present. Then I have the ability to appreciate what is. And that's why it's a pain when Awareness goes away and I no longer have that ability. To expand a bit: You said in another post that it feels false to you to want a higher state of attention. Not so much false as completely unproductive. To do so takes one out of Now and into the realm of an imagined future that would be better if certain conditions were met. Right. And I find It would be better if I appreciated the Now unproductive and false. (False was the word you used, BTW.) As I said (and you snipped), either I'm appreciating the Now spontaneously (when I'm having foreground PC), or I'm not (when I'm not having foreground PC). It's the issue of those I'd rather be ... bumper stickers I mentioned recently. The state of mind of I'd rather be ... is by definition not appreciating the Now, and setting up a set of circumstances that would warrant appreciation. So I'm sitting there not appreciating the Now, and I say to myself, I'd rather be appreciating the Now. My point is that you've gotten yourself into yet another infinite regress when you prescribe appreciating the Now. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Is constant foreground PC a sufficnet criteria for CC? That's how MMY defines it (if it's permanent); witnessing can apply to temporary experiences (CC being 24-hour permanent witnessing). It's a symbol, but for a very specific experience. I don't see that your four- letter job is any better, as long as we know what the definition of CC is. That's all I'm saying. I agree with you that a lot of the other terms are problematic. Good. But what is your definition of CC? (but define it in a non-seeking way :) ) In my understanding of how MMY uses the term, CC is permanent, 24-hour-a-day foreground PC. Can you now get universal consensus on this list for that definition? If I'm representing MMY's definition correctly, I ought to be able to, at least from those who recall MMY's teaching. Corrections to my understanding of how MMY uses the term are welcome. I'm only suggesting it because it's a term we're all familiar with, and it's not a complicated definition. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!
On 9/28/05 12:49 PM, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Of course I am from the no I school (now if that isn't a paradoxical statement). Any trace of I would indicate an observing ego and be indicative of avidya, not realization. Realization is not an experience. It is not within the domain of either subjective or objective experience. It is not of the mind. Ego can have no relationship with consciousness. Ego is created as pure consciousness collapses/projects and identifies with a time and space bound experience. The discussion becomes confusing because in avidya there is a confound between consciousness and ego: people think that ego is consciousness. It's not. Okay, I'm done for now! Well you can't use mental or yogic cognition to focus on the voidness of all phenomenon as having no real existence--you cannot simultaneously present and maintain attention of superficial truth of any kind, including enlightenment. Even yogic levels of super-subtle mental activity will merely produce appearances which seem to be existent but really are only superficial truth. What is required is clear-light cognition as then one can cognize voidness at the same time producing objects of superficial truth but truly focus on it's non-existent voidness (at the same time). Conceptual cognition will always produces appearances which seem to be truly existing. The same is also true of non-conceptual cognition. It takes a Buddha with omniscience to be able simultaneously sustain clear-light focus on voidness and karmic constructs with both being simultaneously void. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Tulsa newpaper- 3 part series
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, markmeredith2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A section of this series documents the TMO's history of purchasing properties with some grand golden expressed purpose (meditation centers, ayurvedic health spas, etc.), but then in every case not taking any steps to implement the plan, but instead letting the property deteriorate (to the consternation of the community) while the TMO tries to sell it for some exorbitant price. Except that's not always the case. And in the case of the Camelot, it looks like it was already run-down, and there are still attempts to make it a Peace Palace. While the Movement has often made a good profit on real estate deals, its not the case that every (or even any) of the purchases were made solely with that in mind. Take the old TM Capital in Phoenix, which was originally a hospice run by the LIttle Sisters of (something or other) which eventually went backrupt. The TMO bought it for a song and started some decent rennovation projects on it, employing locals in the process, who were VERY happy to have the work. Then Summer happened, and whoever was in charge had never used AC for a giant building before. Rather than sealing off the 99% unused portion (this was a HUGE building --about or more than the square- footage of the entire MUM campus minus the domes) and using room ACs, they started up the main building AC. In one month, they racked up a bill of about $20,000, just for the AC and blew the entire year's budget. I believe they manged to sell it, but its doubtful they made much profit. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'll order some pizza from cave service and think about it over lunch. :-) Dude, if you are living in Paris and you order up take-out pizza -- you are not only way UnAwake, you are a gastronomic baffoon. :) Yesterday the seminar I was attending was at the Ritz. Had I ordered pizza from their room service, you can rest assured that it would have been better than anything you could find at *any* restaurant in the US other than about a dozen of them. :-) Bah. There's plenty of hole-in-the-wall pizza places with good pizza. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] I ask because I've said in a number of posts that the longer I meditate, the less overshadowed I am. And certainly MMY teaches that it's a gradual process, so I'm not sure why any TMer would hold that belief. MMY teaches that it is GENERALLY a gradual process, IIRC. Right. So why would any TMer hold the belief that it was (generally or always) *not* a gradual process? SOmeone quoted someone who said its always gradual until its abrupt. That seems inline with what MMY has described, actually. The transition can take a long time or a short time, but the final part of the transition is a definite mode-switch. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi refuses to Levitate.??
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 9/28/05 4:05 AM, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason Spock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hari Om, I heard that, in an interview, Maharishi refused to Levitate. He reasoned that he had already achieved Unity consciousness and there was no need for him to prove himself.!! Many commentaries on the Yoga sutras make this point. What point is that? Can you give an example? The text that you keep referring to from the Shankaracharya tradition says this. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jyouells2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Akasha: Does it strike anyone else as funny, even absurd, that the whole paradigm about enlightenment on this list is dichotomous, digital, either on or off? Unc: YES! That's exactly the issue. I realized that some time back, during the discussions about 'appreciation.' Some comment by, I think, Tom made me completely abandon my old paradigm and come up with a new one that more accurately described my subjective experience. A: Pure consciousness begins from the first mediation. If not before. U: Before. There has never been a moment in my life when I was not enlightened. If you were jivna-mukti at birth, you had not need to incarnate. A serious point per my prior post. People can dilute, devalue, reclassify, and redefine E criteria all they want. But if they come back, they were wrong. So much for bodhisatvas? I have long suggested that we run some tests on the self- proclaimed Es. Push'em off a cliff. And if they don't come back, we will celebrate their saintliness. MMY once commented, or so I am told, that the sidhis would be an eye- opener to many who felt they were fully enlightened. Pun not intended... How do you know he was/is right? Well, maybe he said it originally the way I quoted and DID intend the pun... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi refuses to Levitate.??
On 9/28/05 2:51 PM, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 9/28/05 4:05 AM, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason Spock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hari Om, I heard that, in an interview, Maharishi refused to Levitate. He reasoned that he had already achieved Unity consciousness and there was no need for him to prove himself.!! Many commentaries on the Yoga sutras make this point. What point is that? Can you give an example? The text that you keep referring to from the Shankaracharya tradition says this. Hmmm. Must've missed that part. It DID say that yogic flying was an obstacle of Cosmic Consciousness (Skt.: turiyatita). Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Is constant foreground PC a sufficnet criteria for CC? That's how MMY defines it (if it's permanent); witnessing can apply to temporary experiences (CC being 24-hour permanent witnessing). There's still a distinction that can be made between long-term witnessing and full-blown CC, or so I think. It's a symbol, but for a very specific experience. I don't see that your four- letter job is any better, as long as we know what the definition of CC is. That's all I'm saying. I agree with you that a lot of the other terms are problematic. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Akasha: But what is your definition of CC? (but define it in a non- seeking way :) ) Judy: In my understanding of how MMY uses the term, CC is permanent, 24-hour-a-day foreground PC. Er, Akasha, I'm proposing a term to describe a particular type of experience, i.e., permanent, 24-hour-a-day foreground PC, period. Thats fine. Originally, the seeking of a definition was in order to try gain consensus view. Already your definitions has nothing to do -- on the word level with Peter's. Thus the consensus thing is not working out so well. The thing is, people have either abondoned MMY's definition, or taken a set of attributes from him, but not all, or emphasized different atrributes. I am just stating my experience, that explicitly address most of these questions, provides a framework, that just might, probably not, begin to address every ones individual definitions and may be a starting point for building a concensus def. But I can tell that not an area of great interst to you. No foul, no penalty. As I said: yes. I understand. I have had the same thought (use mmy's def of cc]. Until i tried to apply it and met some of the above issues. I don't know how I can make that any clearer. :) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!
On 9/28/05 3:00 PM, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Is constant foreground PC a sufficnet criteria for CC? That's how MMY defines it (if it's permanent); witnessing can apply to temporary experiences (CC being 24-hour permanent witnessing). There's still a distinction that can be made between long-term witnessing and full-blown CC, or so I think. I didn't want to be the one to say it, but that is correct IMO. Witnessing is a just symptom of the coming dawn. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi refuses to Levitate.??
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 9/28/05 2:51 PM, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 9/28/05 4:05 AM, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason Spock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hari Om, I heard that, in an interview, Maharishi refused to Levitate. He reasoned that he had already achieved Unity consciousness and there was no need for him to prove himself.!! Many commentaries on the Yoga sutras make this point. What point is that? Can you give an example? The text that you keep referring to from the Shankaracharya tradition says this. Hmmm. Must've missed that part. In the part of the discussion about someone who has attained enlightenment wouldn't find the sidhis attractive anyway... It DID say that yogic flying was an obstacle of Cosmic Consciousness (Skt.: turiyatita). The Yoga Sutras themselves say that they're an obstacle. Of course, what is an obstacle? That's the point MMY makes. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Judy: And what on earth leads you to think that it's something you *make*? Rory: If not you, then who? Emphasis on make, Rory. Try again. I am intentionally putting the emphasis on you rather than on *make*, as angle lies somewhere in between or inclusive of both *make* and *allow* :-) What on earth leads you to think that it has anything to do with make? When (if ever) do you plan to make or allow it? Judy: I plan to let it happen whenever it's ready to happen. Rory: How will you know when it is ready to happen? I won't know until it happens. How are you going to let it happen if you won't know until it happens? Huh? Why do I have to know in advance? Who do you think is going to do this for you? Time? Transcending regularly, then acting. Except that, with TM, there's no guarantee of EVER transcending until you're enlightened. So at least within the TM context, the process isn't quite what you said. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: global warming = fewer hurricanes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 9/26/05 6:00:53 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Er,hadn't the treaty already been signed? I don't think so, at least the senate had overwhelmingly refused to ratify it. Traditionally, the Pres can sign a treaty, but Congress can overturn it if they like. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Attributes of E
Hari Om, A person reaches a stage where he knows everything that is needed to be known Intellectually, but had not yet reached Enlightenment. Perhaps such a stage can be called inlightened. Is it possible that TMO itself is run by inlightened individuals rather than Enlightened individuals.?? Jason OriginalMessage- From: "akasha_108" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 18:24:51 - Subject: [FairfieldLife] Attributes of E Akasha: For example, is the experience of "no I" both a necessary and sufficent criteria. Is constant foreground PC asufficnet criteria forCC? Is absence of anger (per many scriptural references) a necessary criteria? Peter: Of course I am from the no "I" school (now if that isn't a paradoxical statement). Any trace of "I" would indicate an "observing" ego and be indicative of avidya, not realization. Realization is not an experience. It is not within the domain of either subjective or objective experience. It is not of the mind. Ego can have no relationship with consciousness. Ego is created as pure consciousness collapses/projects and identifies with a time and space bound experience. The discussion becomes confusing because in avidya there is a confound between consciousness and ego: people think that ego is consciousness. It's not. Okay, I'm done for now! Such discussions are of interest. Not for the sake of E or coming to some consensus of views, and not to better seek E. Its interesting to me to understand what people mean when they introduce and use the E term, or talk authoritatively about it. Knowing the profusion of meanings and POVs about E, asking about their views can be a facinating tour on how peoples minds work, how theirinterpretative frameworks function, etc. And such discussions can stimulate thinking on peripheral insights not so connected to the E topic -- or on specific experiences. As a preface, some assume, incorretly, that when I ask such quesions about E, that I am "seeking E". And based on this presumptions, they focus the discussion on all sorts of unsolicited and off target advice on what I am doing wrong in seeking E. So this preamble is apre-emptive attempt to help keep the conversation more focussed. So, Peter, this is all in fun. Not that I am taking your views lightly, but its not a challenge to your views or an attempt to discredit them. Rather to understand them and compare and contrast them with other views. To generate common understanding, and clearer terminology. And to spark insights -- which may not be related to the topic but more a result of the exercise itself. - To start, please forgive the awkwardness of words, and if possible, lets try to focus on probably intended meanings, not inevitable constraints of english syntax to express this topic. Unless it clarifies or illustrates a good point. To clarify, is your view then that "no-I" is both necessary and sufficient for E? You make the case that it is necessary. So the issue is, is it sufficinet? If so, how do you view PC awareness (PCA)? If "no-I" is sufficent, then logically, PC awareness is not necessary. Or do you hold that the experience (hold the issues about this word until the below point on this topic) or state of "no-I" is the other side of the same coin as PC awareness? That is, do you view PC awareness as a necessary compliment or outcome of "no-I"? Or is it sequential. First "no-I" then PCA? For example SSRS says something to the effect of "empty the glass first, then let it fill with the light of (the divine, PC ...)" Or perhaps do you view PCA as a precursor / cleanser necessary for "no-I" but is not E, by itself. That is, it is not a sufficient criteria for E. " Any trace of "I" would indicate an "observing" ego and be indicative of avidya, not realization. " While your point is understood, I assume you recognize a still remaining social self that interacts with others. Is that so? Some hold the social self is just another entity out there, sort of parallel to other people. Do you share that view? Or have other views? "Realization is not an experience." Semantics and english syntax can be a communications hurddle. Some use the term "experience" to contrast it with "intellectual understanding". Still, experience can imply a subject and object, which is outside the domzin of E as most refer to it. Is that your issue with the term "esperience"? Do you make the same distinction that "experience" attempts to, in distinguishing E from a solely intellectual understanding? In your view, is "state" a better category, while still imperfect, to use for E? "It is not within the domain of either subjective or objective experience." Some describe it as "pure subjectivity", presumably the "pure" designates a distinction from "manifest subjectivity" expressed by the social self. Is this consistent with your understanding, or do you hold that there is not even any "pure subjectivity" in E? "It
[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] I ask because I've said in a number of posts that the longer I meditate, the less overshadowed I am. And certainly MMY teaches that it's a gradual process, so I'm not sure why any TMer would hold that belief. MMY teaches that it is GENERALLY a gradual process, IIRC. Right. So why would any TMer hold the belief that it was (generally or always) *not* a gradual process? SOmeone quoted someone who said its always gradual until its abrupt. That seems inline with what MMY has described, actually. The transition can take a long time or a short time, but the final part of the transition is a definite mode-switch. OK. What I was responding to was the assertion that there were many people here saying that the pattern *generally* was that one meditated for many years with no discernible change--as opposed to gradual change-- and then suddenly become enlightened. That's what I was questioning. that isn't what MMY teaches. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Amma Will Provide One Million U.S. Dollars
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Judy: And what on earth leads you to think that it's something you *make*? Rory: If not you, then who? Emphasis on make, Rory. Try again. I am intentionally putting the emphasis on you rather than on *make*, as angle lies somewhere in between or inclusive of both *make* and *allow* :-) What on earth leads you to think that it has anything to do with make? When (if ever) do you plan to make or allow it? Judy: I plan to let it happen whenever it's ready to happen. Rory: How will you know when it is ready to happen? I won't know until it happens. How are you going to let it happen if you won't know until it happens? Huh? Why do I have to know in advance? Who do you think is going to do this for you? Time? Transcending regularly, then acting. Except that, with TM, there's no guarantee of EVER transcending until you're enlightened. So at least within the TM context, the process isn't quite what you said. Transcending = practicing TM, i.e., experiencing subtler levels of thought and getting deep rest. What there's no guarantee of until you're enlightened is experiencing transcendental consciousness by itself. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Just BELIEVE Peter, and You CAN Fly!
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Is constant foreground PC a sufficnet criteria for CC? That's how MMY defines it (if it's permanent); witnessing can apply to temporary experiences (CC being 24-hour permanent witnessing). There's still a distinction that can be made between long-term witnessing and full-blown CC, or so I think. I believe that's the distinction I just got done making, Lawson. It's a symbol, but for a very specific experience. I don't see that your four- letter job is any better, as long as we know what the definition of CC is. That's all I'm saying. I agree with you that a lot of the other terms are problematic. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] M's Criteria
Using Uncs term, or what I can remember of it, uncletenspaltz, or whatever, as I have come to understand, it includes all who are progressing spiritually, from the humblest initiate to a full Buddha who has achieved the Rainbow body. A nice group. Everyone is uncletenspaltzen. M's criteria for such, as i remember, as he strolled into lecture halls, slowly taking flowers, twinklng at all, was Enjoying?. If yes, (and who ever said no!), you were clearly uncletenspaltzen. If he really wanted to get technical, M would say, Its good, hmmm? It works for me. Clearly defined and concise. May everyone always be uncletenspaltzen. Enjoying? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Renunciation, 4th century-style
New York Times September 28, 2005 Ever Since A.D. 270, the Need to Get Away From It All By MICHAEL SLACKMAN ZAFARANA, Egypt - Men have retreated to the desert for centuries in search of God, drawn by the quiet and the isolation, by a feeling of divine presence in the barren landscape. The Rev. Maximous Elantony was one of those men drawn to the desert in search of a relationship with God. But he could hardly believe it when he recently helped to discover some of the earliest physical evidence of Christians who made that quest as well. Follow Father Maximous inside the 15th-century Apostle Church in the desert near the Red Sea and see history in the torn-up floor. Frozen in time, hidden for hundreds of years beneath one church, and then another, are what Egyptian antiquity officials say are the oldest monastic cells ever discovered, dating to the fourth century. They are so well preserved it is as if someone just lifted off the roof. When you live in a quiet place, like a cell, and you are not busy with anything but God, you start to hear yourself and to see yourself, Father Maximous said during a recent tour of the unearthed cells. We only want to be busy with God, to hear God, to see God. Father Maximous is a Coptic monk who for 27 years has made his home inside the walls of St. Anthony's Monastery, a fortress of Christianity 100 miles southeast of Cairo that is generally considered the birthplace of Christian monastic life. During the third century, there were Christians who sought piety through abstention and self-denial. But St. Anthony is credited with taking those practices a step further when he went to live in a cave in the mountains of the desert, not far from the monastery that bears his name, around the year 270. The monastery is breathtaking, two tall towers rising up from the sand, each topped with the Coptic cross, dotted with churches and cells for 110 monks. But it is the green that is so striking, the green that historians say drew Anthony, the green palm trees that signal the presence of water. It is easy to feel a divine spirit where water emerges from the desert floor. And so the men who sought to live like St. Anthony built cells in the ravines of a craggy, bare mountain with all they needed to survive, and with quiet. They made their cells of bricks and plaster, durable but lost over the years, buried beneath Apostle Church. Father Maximous is deeply interested in the past and is busy working with crews that have dug and scratched away at layers in every corner of the monastery. He said he knew that his predecessors used to build basins into the floor of their churches for what he called a water mass. So he began looking. Working with contractors, and with the help of the Supreme Council of Antiquities, he found one basin, and then, mysteriously, a second. The second was a bit deeper down than the first, and in the wrong position to have been part of Apostle Church. The direction of this one could not be for this church, he said, pointing at the second basin. So they kept digging, pulling away flooring and stone until they uncovered the foundation of an 8th-century church beneath the floor of the 15th-century church. So they kept digging, and beneath that found a stone with a Coptic inscription: Forgive me Savior. Forgive me Lord, is roughly what it said. Father Maximous tried to take the stone out of the ground, but it would not budge. So they kept digging. This was a complete surprise, Father Maximous said pointing at the monastic cells. In the corner of one is a brick stove that was used for cooking. Another was used for prayer. The cells told a story of monks who lived together, with several people in one cell. There was also a basin that was used to soak palm fronds, which they used for weaving things like mats and baskets. Exploring the past tends to inspire reflection on the present, and as Father Maximous spoke about the cells he helped find, he commented on how much life has changed for Coptic monks in Egypt. The struggle back then was to avoid being killed by Bedouins roaming the desert. Today it is to hold onto the solitude that drew the monks here in the first place. To be a monk is to let yourself free of everything, to connect yourself only with God, he said, adding that today's monks are nevertheless a different breed. He said the younger monks wanted access to e-mail, and he himself carries a fancy cellphone. They want suitable toilets, too. Those are for modern monks, he said, a bit condescendingly as he pointed to newer housing on the monastery grounds. But they also get tourists and pilgrims, busloads in the summer, who traipse through the monastery, taking pictures, making noise. The monastery, once sealed shut with no gate at all, is now open for tours daily, and monks are the tour guides. For a time, tourists were allowed to spend the night, but that was a bit much for the monks.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi refuses to Levitate.??
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 9/28/05 2:51 PM, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 9/28/05 4:05 AM, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason Spock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hari Om, I heard that, in an interview, Maharishi refused to Levitate. He reasoned that he had already achieved Unity consciousness and there was no need for him to prove himself.!! Many commentaries on the Yoga sutras make this point. What point is that? Can you give an example? The text that you keep referring to from the Shankaracharya tradition says this. Hmmm. Must've missed that part. It DID say that yogic flying was an obstacle of Cosmic Consciousness (Skt.: turiyatita). Where exactly did it say that? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi refuses to Levitate.??
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 9/28/05 2:51 PM, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 9/28/05 4:05 AM, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason Spock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hari Om, I heard that, in an interview, Maharishi refused to Levitate. He reasoned that he had already achieved Unity consciousness and there was no need for him to prove himself.!! Many commentaries on the Yoga sutras make this point. What point is that? Can you give an example? The text that you keep referring to from the Shankaracharya tradition says this. Hmmm. Must've missed that part. This object [the siddhis] is not for him, who is knower of the Self, for he, the knower of the Self, has in view only the Self. He is content by himself and in himself and does not go after these products of ignorance. --Laghu Yogavasistha, as quoted by Vidaranya It DID say that yogic flying was an obstacle of Cosmic Consciousness (Skt.: turiyatita). Where exactly did it say that? See: http://tinyurl.com/cx4ff Vaj's story seems to have changed a bit since that post, though. But perhaps he's discovered passages that refer explicitly to yogic flying as an obstacle. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi refuses to Levitate.??
SNIP Hmmm. Must've missed that part. It DID say that yogic flying was an obstacle of Cosmic Consciousness (Skt.: turiyatita). Where exactly did it say that? The Yoga Sutras say (somewhere) that powers are an obstacle to Samadhi. I heard that MMY comment that the translation was simply bad. Since the experience of Samadhi is the very basis of the siddhis, how can they be an obstacle to Samadhi? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi refuses to Levitate.??
On 9/28/05 4:40 PM, cardemaister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The text that you keep referring to from the Shankaracharya tradition says this. Hmmm. Must've missed that part. It DID say that yogic flying was an obstacle of Cosmic Consciousness (Skt.: turiyatita). Where exactly did it say that? One place is: Knowledge of Cosmic Consciousness 5. The Renunciation of the Knower 5.1 The Path of the Paramahamsa Yogins 5.1.4. The two terms (paramahamsa and yogin) are used together in order to exclude someone who is only a yogin and someone who is only a paramahamsa. Someone who is only a yogin is a person who, because of his lack of the knowledge of truth, is attached to amazing feats of yogic power, such as knowing the past, present, and future, yogic flying, etc., and has made efforts toward this or that (siddhi) with the various samyama formulae. Consequently he becomes separated from the highest aim of human existence, Cosmic Consciousness. -- jiivanmuktiviveka 5. atha paJcamaM vidvasaMnyaasaprakaraNam 5.1 yoginaaM parahaMsaanaaM margaH 5.1.4 kevalayoginaM kevalaM paramahaMsaM ca vaarayituM padadvayam uktam kevalayogii tattvajnaanaabhavena trikaalajnaanaakazagamanadiSu yogaizvaryacamatkaaravyavahaareSv aasaktaH saMyamaviZeSais tatra tatrodyuktas, tataH paramapuruSaarthaad bhraSTo bhavati. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Maharishi refuses to Levitate.??
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tazarmfune [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: SNIP Hmmm. Must've missed that part. It DID say that yogic flying was an obstacle of Cosmic Consciousness (Skt.: turiyatita). Where exactly did it say that? The Yoga Sutras say (somewhere) that powers are an obstacle to Samadhi. I heard that MMY comment that the translation was simply bad. Since the experience of Samadhi is the very basis of the siddhis, how can they be an obstacle to Samadhi? *** The Siddhis may be an obstacle to enlightenment for the same reason that wealth may be an obstacle (really, the word distraction is a better fit than obstacle) to enlightenment (it is harder for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven within than for a camel to enter the eye of a needle, and so on). Rich people have all sorts of options in the material world to distract them from enjoying the only real durable bliss, that bliss of consciousness found through sitting down quietly and diving inside with TM. Similarly, if people could immediately fly upon doing the sutra, they might spend all their time traveling throughout the universe, and not spend time in TM. However, people's nervous systems in the Kaliyuga are so twisted, and consequently, the atmosphere is so poisoned now that it will not be permit people to be happy, so TM's yogic flyers (who are only found hopping after 30 years of practice) only experience a boost in purification of the nervous system which supports the growth of enlightenment instead of running the risk of Siddhas going off on some on some side track for a lark, and missing the best fun of all, living full awareness. Bob Brigante http://geocities.com/bbrigante/spiritual.html Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Packed crowd hears David Lynch Filmmaker shares zeal for transcendental medi
Subject: David Lynch on college tour Award-winning film director David Lynch is currently touring college campuses to discuss Consciousness, Creativity and the Brain. Packed audiences have already enthusiastically welcomed the tour at University of Michigan and American University. For a list of upcoming appearances, go to www.davidlynchtour.org The west coast tour will be announced soon. David Lynch has established the David Lynch Foundation for Consciousness-Based Education and World Peace to bring Transcendental Meditation to students all around the country. Two podcasts/audios are available at www.mum.edu/podcast Also appearing on the tour are John Hagelin, Ph.D., quantum physicist featured in "What the bleep do we know?" and Fred Travis, Ph.D., Director of the Center for Brain, Consciousness and Cognition at Maharishi University of Management. Dr. Travis will present a live demonstration of EEG research on a student practicing the Transcendental Meditation technique. For more information on brain wave patterns during the TM technique, go to www.mum.edu/cbcc/patterns.html ®Maharishi University of Management is a registered or common law trademark licensed to Maharishi Vedic Development Corporation and is used under sublicense or with permission. Click here to subscribe or unsubscribe.Click here to forward this email to a friend. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
