Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
So were the sidhalands a nationwide or world wide thing? Were they supposed to be constructed by volunteer labor and all that? From: doctordumb...@rocketmail.com doctordumb...@rocketmail.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 11:23 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment. Curtis returns in a week - In the meantime, I'll share my experiences. Curtis I think was at the Florida location, where a guy died during the construction phase. A group of about 30 of us were near Waverly, MO, and there was at least one other project going on at the time, near St. Louis. Basically a work/study program when I first went there. We had a 40 or so room facility to design and build, and about 14 acres of organic strawberries to plant and tend to, later adding the adjacent apple orchard for apple juice production. Officially, the building we built was a Capital of the A of E, and the agricultural stuff was the Siddhaland. After six months of work, we got the siddhis, by attending the TM Center in Kansas City, and doing the residence requirement for the flying block at MIU (MUM). Then we returned to the facility for six more months. It was austere to say the least, more so for the sidha-wannabes, than the Guvs. We lived in a standalone garage. We did not have heat in the Winter, except for coal, nor hot water for bathing. The Guvs did. Same deal for any cooling in the Summer. We didn't much care - we were a close group, working long hours, rounding 2 x 2, and getting the hang of the TMSP while doing either construction, or farming. I remember if you were fast, you could weed one and a half rows of strawberries per day. They were big rows. Your hoe was your prize (lol). We soon recognized which brands had a higher grade steel in the blade, and held their edge. In the Winter, tending the berries meant tearing straw off of big rolled bales on the back of a tractor, to insulate the plants. Dirty hard work. It was also a great experience to live with the Guvs up close. I remember a couple of them we all liked, several who were total dicks, and the rest fell somewhere in the middle. Certainly not a rousing advertisement for going on TTC. One day, while considering working for the Movement, I decided that instead of working, I'd take my boombox, put on something loud - probably the Talking Heads - and share it with everyone; sat in and around the main building with the music cranked. Conclusion? TTC = oil, me = water.:-) The next job I had was working at a commercial deep sea dive shop in Santa Barbara, CA. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote: Wow! Well said, Curtis. Would you say a bit more about sidhaland? I was vaguely aware of it but I think that was after I had gotten free of TM. Where was it, what was it and what was it like living there?
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote: So were the sidhalands a nationwide or world wide thing? Were they supposed to be constructed by volunteer labor and all that? Long after my time, but as I remember they were supposed to be built by slave labor crews composed of Buddhists and Negros. :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote: So were the sidhalands a nationwide or world wide thing? Were they supposed to be constructed by volunteer labor and all that? The UK has a sidhaland, in a place called Skelmersdale. Formed just after the siddhis were introduced so we would have somewhere to meditate together and get all the claimed group benefits from that. It's in the cheapest place to live in the country, the north west. A very deprived and miserable housing estate built to cope with the overflow from Liverpool, and the weather is awful! But over the years they made a nice little town with dome and a Marshy school. Quite an impressive achievement, I think it's the only one outside FF. Then one day they found out that the hill to the east is just a bit too high and it delays the sunrise by minute or so. which is too much for sthapatya ved, so no matter how east-facing your home is it will never make the grade sthapatya vedically so they are moving the town further west so they can get all the benefits from having an extra minute of early morning sun. But it's all a bit academic as it never stops raining up there. I always thought it weird that SV says that it's OK for buildings to block the sunrise but not the land, but there is much that is highly odd about SV homes. I would like one though if only so I could predict equinoxes with my gateposts, the only practical use for them I can think of actually... From: doctordumbass@... doctordumbass@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 11:23 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment. Â Curtis returns in a week - In the meantime, I'll share my experiences. Curtis I think was at the Florida location, where a guy died during the construction phase. A group of about 30 of us were near Waverly, MO, and there was at least one other project going on at the time, near St. Louis. Basically a work/study program when I first went there. We had a 40 or so room facility to design and build, and about 14 acres of organic strawberries to plant and tend to, later adding the adjacent apple orchard for apple juice production. Officially, the building we built was a Capital of the A of E, and the agricultural stuff was the Siddhaland. After six months of work, we got the siddhis, by attending the TM Center in Kansas City, and doing the residence requirement for the flying block at MIU (MUM). Then we returned to the facility for six more months. It was austere to say the least, more so for the sidha-wannabes, than the Guvs. We lived in a standalone garage. We did not have heat in the Winter, except for coal, nor hot water for bathing. The Guvs did. Same deal for any cooling in the Summer. We didn't much care - we were a close group, working long hours, rounding 2 x 2, and getting the hang of the TMSP while doing either construction, or farming. I remember if you were fast, you could weed one and a half rows of strawberries per day. They were big rows. Your hoe was your prize (lol). We soon recognized which brands had a higher grade steel in the blade, and held their edge. In the Winter, tending the berries meant tearing straw off of big rolled bales on the back of a tractor, to insulate the plants. Dirty hard work. It was also a great experience to live with the Guvs up close. I remember a couple of them we all liked, several who were total dicks, and the rest fell somewhere in the middle. Certainly not a rousing advertisement for going on TTC. One day, while considering working for the Movement, I decided that instead of working, I'd take my boombox, put on something loud - probably the Talking Heads - and share it with everyone; sat in and around the main building with the music cranked. Conclusion? TTC = oil, me = water.:-) The next job I had was working at a commercial deep sea dive shop in Santa Barbara, CA. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@ wrote: Wow! Well said, Curtis. Would you say a bit more about sidhaland? I was vaguely aware of it but I think that was after I had gotten free of TM. Where was it, what was it and what was it like living there?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
I thought I was jaded, but I am still amazed at some of the insane stuff the hard core TMO people will do and put up with. From: salyavin808 fintlewoodle...@mail.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2013 9:19 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote: So were the sidhalands a nationwide or world wide thing? Were they supposed to be constructed by volunteer labor and all that? The UK has a sidhaland, in a place called Skelmersdale. Formed just after the siddhis were introduced so we would have somewhere to meditate together and get all the claimed group benefits from that. It's in the cheapest place to live in the country, the north west. A very deprived and miserable housing estate built to cope with the overflow from Liverpool, and the weather is awful! But over the years they made a nice little town with dome and a Marshy school. Quite an impressive achievement, I think it's the only one outside FF. Then one day they found out that the hill to the east is just a bit too high and it delays the sunrise by minute or so. which is too much for sthapatya ved, so no matter how east-facing your home is it will never make the grade sthapatya vedically so they are moving the town further west so they can get all the benefits from having an extra minute of early morning sun. But it's all a bit academic as it never stops raining up there. I always thought it weird that SV says that it's OK for buildings to block the sunrise but not the land, but there is much that is highly odd about SV homes. I would like one though if only so I could predict equinoxes with my gateposts, the only practical use for them I can think of actually... From: doctordumbass@... doctordumbass@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 11:23 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment. Â Curtis returns in a week - In the meantime, I'll share my experiences. Curtis I think was at the Florida location, where a guy died during the construction phase. A group of about 30 of us were near Waverly, MO, and there was at least one other project going on at the time, near St. Louis. Basically a work/study program when I first went there. We had a 40 or so room facility to design and build, and about 14 acres of organic strawberries to plant and tend to, later adding the adjacent apple orchard for apple juice production. Officially, the building we built was a Capital of the A of E, and the agricultural stuff was the Siddhaland. After six months of work, we got the siddhis, by attending the TM Center in Kansas City, and doing the residence requirement for the flying block at MIU (MUM). Then we returned to the facility for six more months. It was austere to say the least, more so for the sidha-wannabes, than the Guvs. We lived in a standalone garage. We did not have heat in the Winter, except for coal, nor hot water for bathing. The Guvs did. Same deal for any cooling in the Summer. We didn't much care - we were a close group, working long hours, rounding 2 x 2, and getting the hang of the TMSP while doing either construction, or farming. I remember if you were fast, you could weed one and a half rows of strawberries per day. They were big rows. Your hoe was your prize (lol). We soon recognized which brands had a higher grade steel in the blade, and held their edge. In the Winter, tending the berries meant tearing straw off of big rolled bales on the back of a tractor, to insulate the plants. Dirty hard work. It was also a great experience to live with the Guvs up close. I remember a couple of them we all liked, several who were total dicks, and the rest fell somewhere in the middle. Certainly not a rousing advertisement for going on TTC. One day, while considering working for the Movement, I decided that instead of working, I'd take my boombox, put on something loud - probably the Talking Heads - and share it with everyone; sat in and around the main building with the music cranked. Conclusion? TTC = oil, me = water.:-) The next job I had was working at a commercial deep sea dive shop in Santa Barbara, CA. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@ wrote: Wow! Well said, Curtis. Would you say a bit more about sidhaland? I was vaguely aware of it but I think that was after I had gotten free of TM. Where was it, what was it and what was it like living there?
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote: I thought I was jaded, but I am still amazed at some of the insane stuff the hard core TMO people will do and put up with. You've got to admire the dedication! I can correct myself here, there are two sidhalands in the UK. The other is in Suffolk and is fully SV. I don't like it - not from any prejudice, a nice house is a nice house to me - but because when I walk around it feels creepy like I'm being watched. I think it's because of the grid system, every window lines up with every other window and it feels most odd. Be no surprise if the crime rate stays low! I couldn't live there, I prefer an organic sprawl in a town where you can trace its history. Shame they aren't invincible though :D From: salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2013 9:19 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment. Â --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@ wrote: So were the sidhalands a nationwide or world wide thing? Were they supposed to be constructed by volunteer labor and all that? The UK has a sidhaland, in a place called Skelmersdale. Formed just after the siddhis were introduced so we would have somewhere to meditate together and get all the claimed group benefits from that. It's in the cheapest place to live in the country, the north west. A very deprived and miserable housing estate built to cope with the overflow from Liverpool, and the weather is awful! But over the years they made a nice little town with dome and a Marshy school. Quite an impressive achievement, I think it's the only one outside FF. Then one day they found out that the hill to the east is just a bit too high and it delays the sunrise by minute or so. which is too much for sthapatya ved, so no matter how east-facing your home is it will never make the grade sthapatya vedically so they are moving the town further west so they can get all the benefits from having an extra minute of early morning sun. But it's all a bit academic as it never stops raining up there. I always thought it weird that SV says that it's OK for buildings to block the sunrise but not the land, but there is much that is highly odd about SV homes. I would like one though if only so I could predict equinoxes with my gateposts, the only practical use for them I can think of actually... From: doctordumbass@ doctordumbass@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 11:23 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment. ÃÂ Curtis returns in a week - In the meantime, I'll share my experiences. Curtis I think was at the Florida location, where a guy died during the construction phase. A group of about 30 of us were near Waverly, MO, and there was at least one other project going on at the time, near St. Louis. Basically a work/study program when I first went there. We had a 40 or so room facility to design and build, and about 14 acres of organic strawberries to plant and tend to, later adding the adjacent apple orchard for apple juice production. Officially, the building we built was a Capital of the A of E, and the agricultural stuff was the Siddhaland. After six months of work, we got the siddhis, by attending the TM Center in Kansas City, and doing the residence requirement for the flying block at MIU (MUM). Then we returned to the facility for six more months. It was austere to say the least, more so for the sidha-wannabes, than the Guvs. We lived in a standalone garage. We did not have heat in the Winter, except for coal, nor hot water for bathing. The Guvs did. Same deal for any cooling in the Summer. We didn't much care - we were a close group, working long hours, rounding 2 x 2, and getting the hang of the TMSP while doing either construction, or farming. I remember if you were fast, you could weed one and a half rows of strawberries per day. They were big rows. Your hoe was your prize (lol). We soon recognized which brands had a higher grade steel in the blade, and held their edge. In the Winter, tending the berries meant tearing straw off of big rolled bales on the back of a tractor, to insulate the plants. Dirty hard work. It was also a great experience to live with the Guvs up close. I remember a couple of them we all liked, several who were total dicks, and the rest fell somewhere in the middle. Certainly not a rousing advertisement for going on TTC. One day, while considering working for the Movement, I decided that instead of working, I'd take my boombox, put on something loud - probably the Talking Heads - and share it with everyone;
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
There's also Lelystad in Holland, about an hour from Utrecht. My best friend lived there for a while and sent photos. The housing looked pretty decent inside and out. Nothing vastu but that was back in 2001. From: salyavin808 fintlewoodle...@mail.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2013 8:19 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote: So were the sidhalands a nationwide or world wide thing? Were they supposed to be constructed by volunteer labor and all that? The UK has a sidhaland, in a place called Skelmersdale. Formed just after the siddhis were introduced so we would have somewhere to meditate together and get all the claimed group benefits from that. It's in the cheapest place to live in the country, the north west. A very deprived and miserable housing estate built to cope with the overflow from Liverpool, and the weather is awful! But over the years they made a nice little town with dome and a Marshy school. Quite an impressive achievement, I think it's the only one outside FF. Then one day they found out that the hill to the east is just a bit too high and it delays the sunrise by minute or so. which is too much for sthapatya ved, so no matter how east-facing your home is it will never make the grade sthapatya vedically so they are moving the town further west so they can get all the benefits from having an extra minute of early morning sun. But it's all a bit academic as it never stops raining up there. I always thought it weird that SV says that it's OK for buildings to block the sunrise but not the land, but there is much that is highly odd about SV homes. I would like one though if only so I could predict equinoxes with my gateposts, the only practical use for them I can think of actually... From: doctordumbass@... doctordumbass@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 11:23 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment. Â Curtis returns in a week - In the meantime, I'll share my experiences. Curtis I think was at the Florida location, where a guy died during the construction phase. A group of about 30 of us were near Waverly, MO, and there was at least one other project going on at the time, near St. Louis. Basically a work/study program when I first went there. We had a 40 or so room facility to design and build, and about 14 acres of organic strawberries to plant and tend to, later adding the adjacent apple orchard for apple juice production. Officially, the building we built was a Capital of the A of E, and the agricultural stuff was the Siddhaland. After six months of work, we got the siddhis, by attending the TM Center in Kansas City, and doing the residence requirement for the flying block at MIU (MUM). Then we returned to the facility for six more months. It was austere to say the least, more so for the sidha-wannabes, than the Guvs. We lived in a standalone garage. We did not have heat in the Winter, except for coal, nor hot water for bathing. The Guvs did. Same deal for any cooling in the Summer. We didn't much care - we were a close group, working long hours, rounding 2 x 2, and getting the hang of the TMSP while doing either construction, or farming. I remember if you were fast, you could weed one and a half rows of strawberries per day. They were big rows. Your hoe was your prize (lol). We soon recognized which brands had a higher grade steel in the blade, and held their edge. In the Winter, tending the berries meant tearing straw off of big rolled bales on the back of a tractor, to insulate the plants. Dirty hard work. It was also a great experience to live with the Guvs up close. I remember a couple of them we all liked, several who were total dicks, and the rest fell somewhere in the middle. Certainly not a rousing advertisement for going on TTC. One day, while considering working for the Movement, I decided that instead of working, I'd take my boombox, put on something loud - probably the Talking Heads - and share it with everyone; sat in and around the main building with the music cranked. Conclusion? TTC = oil, me = water.:-) The next job I had was working at a commercial deep sea dive shop in Santa Barbara, CA. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@ wrote: Wow! Well said, Curtis. Would you say a bit more about sidhaland? I was vaguely aware of it but I think that was after I had gotten free of TM. Where was it, what was it and what was it like living there?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
Wow! Well said, Curtis. Would you say a bit more about sidhaland? I was vaguely aware of it but I think that was after I had gotten free of TM. Where was it, what was it and what was it like living there? From: curtisdeltablues curtisdeltabl...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 9, 2013 6:24 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@... wrote: Yeah, I don't think this covers the comparison with cocaine and gambling. That goes beyond just being honest about your own POV. The reward centers of our brains do not make the value judgements about what triggers the endorphins. My point concerns the content free reward system itself. And since I spent a lot of time being fulltime I saw a lot of people whose lives were a wreck from their fixation on meditation. Later after I got out I spent time with families who had been torn apart by their kids over-involvement and inability to support themselves. So the comparisons with other activities that can incapacitate people due to an uncontrollable urge like for rounding courses is not without some basis in my experience. And these levels of exposure was what Maharishi was pushing when I was involved. It was what he wanted from his teachers. Most people who start TM never get to that level of involvement. But on the other hand most people who start TM, stop TM too. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ I think addiction is a tricky term to use. It's handy when you want to discourage people from trying TM or suggest there's something dangerous about it, because the term is usually pejorative; but then there's the whole positive addiction theory to be considered. I agree that addiction can be overused and misapplied. I believe in the case of TM it applies, but I get it that you do not. I think it can be considered a positive addiction for most of those who find it addicting at all. I believe it triggers a similar reward system at the synaptic level that drugs do. At least that is how I experience it. I have no objection to this as long as you make it clear it's your experience. That was how it was first pitched in the West, as a drug-free high. By the TMO? Of course, when you cite cocaine addiction as if it were similar to addiction to TM, your intention to load your argument becomes obvious. We were discussing it in the context of all sorts of things people can be addicted to including gambling. Also a negative addiction. And there are many valid distinctions to draw between them. But my focus was just on the brain reward system aspect. With meditation it is so high that it can lead to people being satisfied just meditating. That was Guru Dev's life before he hit the Shankaracharya lottery right? And he is far from the only one. It was how I lived at sidhaland. We switched the balance there from meditating for activity to just acting as much as we had to to get back to program. It was all Maharishi directed and it went on for 3 years for me. So I am not overstating the case of how absorbed you can get with these euphoric states of mind. In a Siddhaland-type context, sure. But you didn't specify that to begin with. It sounded as though you were speaking generally. Do you think I have an agenda to turn people off of practicing TM? I don't. Emily can figure out for herself if TM is for her. But here I have a chance to express what I really think about it outside the PR angle that some person might get turned off to TM by me being honest about my POV on meditation. Yeah, I don't think this covers the comparison with cocaine and gambling. That goes beyond just being honest about your own POV. It is a fascinating area for me and the jury is not in about any of it. I have come to believe that certain experiences of heightened states of bliss are not productive. For you. I am trying to understand how it was so easy for me to drop out of the sidhis and never want to do them again. I got intense pleasure from the sidhis. But now that kind of experience has zero appeal. How can this be if it was the highest experience of my life? The reason is that now I get my inner states of joy from achievements and creative expression. I have switched my source of similar brain states of peak experiences. I am no longer attracted to states of content free pleasure from any source. One might ask whether it's possible that your stint with the TM-Sidhis increased your capacity to get inner states of joy from achievements and creative expression. But your post balances out my
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
I think it had something to do with money - either the foreign students were paying more for their stay at MUM OR it had to do with who their parents were - people with money or status in the Movement that Bevvie and company didn't want to alienate. But the real issue with dope on campus is that the TMO has not unholstered the big guns - send in the Purusha Police! Let them make unannounced spot checks on all the dorm rooms and make sure they are carrying the Vedic Golden Rods of Chastisment, made of course from rare Indian Vedic woods, blessed by the nebulous Vedic Masters Nappy references, further blessed with the Marshy lingam energy by laying the rods in front of 8 by 10 pics of Marshy's Linga Temple (available from Girish and Company for however much they think you will pay). After the Purusha Police have beaten the dope rakshasa energy out of the stupid kids, then Vedic Justice will have been done and the numbers in the Dome shall certainly rise! Jai Guru Whup Ass! From: Duveyoung no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 8, 2013 11:05 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment. So far -- not a single response has been about the issue that American students are not cut a break but the foreign students are. That's the issue -- the hypocrisy. After seven decades of the movement shaping people -- to have this movement hypocrisy is PROOF that the technique sucks and the movement knows it and uses tradtional college power-tripping to hide the fact that personality, morality, diet, lifestyle, spirituality, is NOT IMPROVED BY TM. I can give the names and addresses of dozens of assholes who were assholes to start and are still assholes and they're still running the movement. And if a parent is soo stupid as to not know their child enough to know if dope is part of their lives and then they pay through the nose to put a kid in MUM -- so be it -- THEY will get the rod whack of a shameful child -- let's see them CHANGE for the better after that rod hits them. Don't want to spoil those parents, right? Gotta keep them evolving too, right? Maybe by the time they roll out their fifth or sixth kid they'll get it right, right? Fucking hell. When are the ninnies here going to admit that TM just cannot do ANYTHING? It's only goal is to accomplish NOTHINGNESS and then we get to see what karma comes of that non-experience. And woe unto those who would try to thwart Kali Yuga's coming into fullness. These are the dark times. We are the ones creating it for God's sake. So I should just shut up about hypocrisy, eh? Sheeesh. Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_reply@... wrote: Facebook page: MUMSecrets #8206; #81: few years back every single person of Bld 141 smoked pot. New Kid moves in and rats ME out to the faculty. I get kicked out. foreign students smoked pot, got ratted out. Faculty turns a blind eye because they are from a different country. So I discovered your policy is make examples of the Americans. I Love the meditation, and promoting world peace. disappointed that your leaders actions and mindset don't lead us down that path. Too many policies in place and enforced that have created a great dissension in the movement. Hard to promote Peace when half your movement hates you for being so unforgiving and distrustful of people who still wanna experience different ways, AND meditation. My name is Matthew Speer. This story isn't a secret.
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
Curtis returns in a week - In the meantime, I'll share my experiences. Curtis I think was at the Florida location, where a guy died during the construction phase. A group of about 30 of us were near Waverly, MO, and there was at least one other project going on at the time, near St. Louis. Basically a work/study program when I first went there. We had a 40 or so room facility to design and build, and about 14 acres of organic strawberries to plant and tend to, later adding the adjacent apple orchard for apple juice production. Officially, the building we built was a Capital of the A of E, and the agricultural stuff was the Siddhaland. After six months of work, we got the siddhis, by attending the TM Center in Kansas City, and doing the residence requirement for the flying block at MIU (MUM). Then we returned to the facility for six more months. It was austere to say the least, more so for the sidha-wannabes, than the Guvs. We lived in a standalone garage. We did not have heat in the Winter, except for coal, nor hot water for bathing. The Guvs did. Same deal for any cooling in the Summer. We didn't much care - we were a close group, working long hours, rounding 2 x 2, and getting the hang of the TMSP while doing either construction, or farming. I remember if you were fast, you could weed one and a half rows of strawberries per day. They were big rows. Your hoe was your prize (lol). We soon recognized which brands had a higher grade steel in the blade, and held their edge. In the Winter, tending the berries meant tearing straw off of big rolled bales on the back of a tractor, to insulate the plants. Dirty hard work. It was also a great experience to live with the Guvs up close. I remember a couple of them we all liked, several who were total dicks, and the rest fell somewhere in the middle. Certainly not a rousing advertisement for going on TTC. One day, while considering working for the Movement, I decided that instead of working, I'd take my boombox, put on something loud - probably the Talking Heads - and share it with everyone; sat in and around the main building with the music cranked. Conclusion? TTC = oil, me = water.:-) The next job I had was working at a commercial deep sea dive shop in Santa Barbara, CA. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote: Wow! Well said, Curtis. Would you say a bit more about sidhaland? I was vaguely aware of it but I think that was after I had gotten free of TM. Where was it, what was it and what was it like living there?
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@... wrote: But this is content free positive experience divorced from achievement. I am calling into question the whole goal of the yoga systems including TM. No, playing and busking in the streets isn't enough for this soul with GREAT ambitions; Curtis has found his life mission !
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
Steve, I like your point in the second paragraph below: that it's always possible to find a flaw in what the other person has written. I definitely see myself doing that, hopefully less as time goes by. And I very much appreciate your point that the spirit of discussion is lost. Somehow it reminds me of the times when there is a great discussion on FFL, what that's like. Makes it worth hanging in here. From: seventhray27 steve.sun...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2013 10:22 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann awoelflebater@... wrote: No 'taker' here but I will give something. I actually take umbrage at your assertion about Judy's honesty. I personally don't think she has a dishonest molecule in her body. In fact, I would go so far as to says she can't help but tell the truth, as she sees it and at the risk of seriously pissing everyone off. I do not believe Judy is about distracting her reader from what is the closest to the truth of a thing, as she sees it from her level. snip Ann, More credit to you, if you can follow her arguments. I find that they often become convoluted beyond any sensible conclusion. And I suspect that you, like most of us, don't bother to read past the first couple of rebuttals she makes, especially after the third of fourth iteration. I would say, that if anyone wants to find a flaw in another person's reasoning, they can do so. There is always some technical point that can be disputed. But, by that point the spirit of the argument, or discussion is lost, and the object becomes simply finding a way to win. Or maybe you decide to frame your argument in parameters that you alone determine as valid and win on that basis. Oh, and the sin of snipping. That can always be grounds for immediate dismissal of any points. Because snipping in Judy's book is to hide something, and not for conciseness. (unless she does it) And yes, she does have time, have time, have time for nearly unlimited research, (which we must remember is research when she does it, but internet stalking when done by someone else) So, all of this, for me, disputes any notion of honesty on Judy's part. But I certainly understand the attraction of having someone like Judy on your team. She can disparage with best of them. But, I suspect that she would remain a better friend, or ally at a distance. And is it fair to bring up, that there must come a time, when we think about what legacy we might leave behind. I think that comes into play at some point. She is inexhaustible in her research and in the pursuit of 'getting it right'; she obviously has a mind that ranks right up there, as far as lucid, raw intelligence goes, as high as anybody who has ever posted here. (I know who is rolling their eyes right now, so don't think I don't.) Her style, her fighting instinct, her doggedness does not endear her to everyone. Fair enough. You don't have to like someone to appreciate their innate insistence on accuracy, on this kind of purity of defining things. She is, to me, very like a human barometer or other finely-tuned instrument that can't go against this nature of hers to give one an accurate reading. She can admit when she is wrong. She isn't easy at times, in fact she can be bloody ruthless. But I love that, in its proper time, in its proper context. The thing is, I don't believe Judy writes/asserts anything she does not truly believe - even at the risk of being wrong. If that is not honesty, then I don't know what is.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
On Mar 11, 2013, at 4:29 AM, Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com wrote: Steve, I like your point in the second paragraph below: Of course you do !!! that it's always possible to find a flaw in what the other person has written. I definitely see myself doing that, hopefully less as time goes by. And I very much appreciate your point that the spirit of discussion is lost. Somehow it reminds me of the times when there is a great discussion on FFL, what that's like. Makes it worth hanging in here. From: seventhray27 steve.sun...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2013 10:22 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann awoelflebater@... wrote: No 'taker' here but I will give something. I actually take umbrage at your assertion about Judy's honesty. I personally don't think she has a dishonest molecule in her body. In fact, I would go so far as to says she can't help but tell the truth, as she sees it and at the risk of seriously pissing everyone off. I do not believe Judy is about distracting her reader from what is the closest to the truth of a thing, as she sees it from her level. snip Ann, More credit to you, if you can follow her arguments. I find that they often become convoluted beyond any sensible conclusion. And I suspect that you, like most of us, don't bother to read past the first couple of rebuttals she makes, especially after the third of fourth iteration. I would say, that if anyone wants to find a flaw in another person's reasoning, they can do so. There is always some technical point that can be disputed. But, by that point the spirit of the argument, or discussion is lost, and the object becomes simply finding a way to win. Or maybe you decide to frame your argument in parameters that you alone determine as valid and win on that basis. Oh, and the sin of snipping. That can always be grounds for immediate dismissal of any points. Because snipping in Judy's book is to hide something, and not for conciseness. (unless she does it) And yes, she does have time, have time, have time for nearly unlimited research, (which we must remember is research when she does it, but internet stalking when done by someone else) So, all of this, for me, disputes any notion of honesty on Judy's part. But I certainly understand the attraction of having someone like Judy on your team. She can disparage with best of them. But, I suspect that she would remain a better friend, or ally at a distance. And is it fair to bring up, that there must come a time, when we think about what legacy we might leave behind. I think that comes into play at some point. She is inexhaustible in her research and in the pursuit of 'getting it right'; she obviously has a mind that ranks right up there, as far as lucid, raw intelligence goes, as high as anybody who has ever posted here. (I know who is rolling their eyes right now, so don't think I don't.) Her style, her fighting instinct, her doggedness does not endear her to everyone. Fair enough. You don't have to like someone to appreciate their innate insistence on accuracy, on this kind of purity of defining things. She is, to me, very like a human barometer or other finely-tuned instrument that can't go against this nature of hers to give one an accurate reading. She can admit when she is wrong. She isn't easy at times, in fact she can be bloody ruthless. But I love that, in its proper time, in its proper context. The thing is, I don't believe Judy writes/asserts anything she does not truly believe - even at the risk of being wrong. If that is not honesty, then I don't know what is.
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray27 steve.sundur@ wrote: snip Oh, and the sin of snipping. That can always be grounds for immediate dismissal of any points. Because snipping in Judy's book is to hide something, and not for conciseness. (unless she does it) And yes, she does have time, have time, have time for nearly unlimited research, (which we must remember is research when she does it, but internet stalking when done by someone else) So, all of this, for me, disputes any notion of honesty on Judy's part. Except for the fact that what you say above about snipping and research is not true, and you know it's not true. Truth, for you Judy is often a moving target. As Curtis pointed, often the opportunity for a discussion that yields greater understanding is a casualty for a different agenda. Lying about a person isn't a very good way to make a case for their being dishonest, now, is it?
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
As Ravi noted Judy, no one has any obligation to reveal personal details about themselves. You feel that you have done this. I'd have to disagree. And what I am saying, is that it comes out naturally over a period of time. We knew more about Ann in two weeks, than we've known about you in all the time you've been here. I can't help but feel that that speaks to the fact that maybe there's not much there to share. I'm sorry about that. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula chivukula.ravi@ wrote: Yes - Steve, you can't even notice the contradictions in what you write. FFL is a place for discussion, so Judy doesn't have to reveal anything about herself - it's like you hilariously accused her of - a straw man argument. Not only that, it's not true that I haven't revealed anything about myself, as I pointed out to him awhile back when he made the same nitwit accusation. As I told Ann, he doesn't have any legitimate complaints, so he just makes 'em up. And then calls me dishonest.
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray27 steve.sundur@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray27 steve.sundur@ wrote: snip Oh, and the sin of snipping. That can always be grounds for immediate dismissal of any points. Because snipping in Judy's book is to hide something, and not for conciseness. (unless she does it) And yes, she does have time, have time, have time for nearly unlimited research, (which we must remember is research when she does it, but internet stalking when done by someone else) So, all of this, for me, disputes any notion of honesty on Judy's part. Except for the fact that what you say above about snipping and research is not true, and you know it's not true. Truth, for you Judy is often a moving target. No, Steve, it is not. Why you've suddenly decided that telling whoppers about me is a good tactic, I really don't know. But I'd suggest that you rethink it, because it makes you look even more helplessly stupid than you already do. As Curtis pointed, often the opportunity for a discussion that yields greater understanding is a casualty for a different agenda. Lying about a person isn't a very good way to make a case for their being dishonest, now, is it?
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray27 steve.sundur@... wrote: As Ravi noted Judy, no one has any obligation to reveal personal details about themselves. You feel that you have done this. I'd have to disagree. Uh, no, Steve, I don't feel that I have done this, I *have* done this. It isn't a matter of agreement or disagreement, it's a fact and is on the record. And what I am saying, is that it comes out naturally over a period of time. We knew more about Ann in two weeks, than we've known about you in all the time you've been here. That is not a fact, Steve. It's very far from a fact. I can't help but feel that that speaks to the fact that maybe there's not much there to share. I'm sorry about that. I'm sorry that you've chosen lying as the appropriate way to get back at me. What liars never seem to realize is that lying is an admission of defeat, as well as of a lack of self-respect. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula chivukula.ravi@ wrote: Yes - Steve, you can't even notice the contradictions in what you write. FFL is a place for discussion, so Judy doesn't have to reveal anything about herself - it's like you hilariously accused her of - a straw man argument. Not only that, it's not true that I haven't revealed anything about myself, as I pointed out to him awhile back when he made the same nitwit accusation. As I told Ann, he doesn't have any legitimate complaints, so he just makes 'em up. And then calls me dishonest.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
Steve - what the fuck is wrong with you. This is the first time I'm seeing dishonesty, deceptiveness creep in to your attacks on Judy - are you channeling Barry - it's not funny anymore, get a grip dude. On Mar 11, 2013, at 5:29 AM, seventhray27 steve.sun...@yahoo.com wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray27 steve.sundur@ wrote: snip Oh, and the sin of snipping. That can always be grounds for immediate dismissal of any points. Because snipping in Judy's book is to hide something, and not for conciseness. (unless she does it) And yes, she does have time, have time, have time for nearly unlimited research, (which we must remember is research when she does it, but internet stalking when done by someone else) So, all of this, for me, disputes any notion of honesty on Judy's part. Except for the fact that what you say above about snipping and research is not true, and you know it's not true. Truth, for you Judy is often a moving target. As Curtis pointed, often the opportunity for a discussion that yields greater understanding is a casualty for a different agenda. Lying about a person isn't a very good way to make a case for their being dishonest, now, is it?
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula chivukula.ravi@... wrote: I would be glad to play that game with you. OK..ready,set, GO !!! Aw forget it - when I insult someone it almost always sticks but never the other way around - I was an arrogant SOB from the day I was born. And as Dr. Phil asks, How's that working for you Ravi But one can always try disparaging me..LOL. You are so much poorer in understanding me if you label it as a tirade or an accusation, poorer in judging me based on what I do. I don't think I miss your playful nature Ravi. But there is always gonna be someone of the other side of your equation, who will be willing to dish it right back to you. Well you are fucking clueless Steve - but I still love you. I guess somehow Ravi, I've got something to show for it. Know what I mean?
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula chivukula.ravi@... wrote: OMG Ann wrote all that and you don't show any inclination to absorb what she had to say - you couldn't detect any sincerity, conviction in her post? You dismiss Ann's entire message because you think Ann wants Judy's support in attacking others? Oh boy - you are fucking hopeless man. I'm sorry Ravi. Please forgive me. On Sun, Mar 10, 2013 at 8:22 PM, seventhray27 steve.sundur@...wrote: ** --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann awoelflebater@ wrote: No 'taker' here but I will give something. I actually take umbrage at your assertion about Judy's honesty. I personally don't think she has a dishonest molecule in her body. In fact, I would go so far as to says she can't help but tell the truth, as she sees it and at the risk of seriously pissing everyone off. I do not believe Judy is about distracting her reader from what is the closest to the truth of a thing, as she sees it from her level. snip Ann, More credit to you, if you can follow her arguments. I find that they often become convoluted beyond any sensible conclusion. And I suspect that you, like most of us, don't bother to read past the first couple of rebuttals she makes, especially after the third of fourth iteration. I would say, that if anyone wants to find a flaw in another person's reasoning, they can do so. There is always some technical point that can be disputed. But, by that point the spirit of the argument, or discussion is lost, and the object becomes simply finding a way to win. Or maybe you decide to frame your argument in parameters that you alone determine as valid and win on that basis. Oh, and the sin of snipping. That can always be grounds for immediate dismissal of any points. Because snipping in Judy's book is to hide something, and not for conciseness. (unless she does it) And yes, she does have time, have time, have time for nearly unlimited research, (which we must remember is research when she does it, but internet stalking when done by someone else) So, all of this, for me, disputes any notion of honesty on Judy's part. But I certainly understand the attraction of having someone like Judy on your team. She can disparage with best of them. But, I suspect that she would remain a better friend, or ally at a distance. And is it fair to bring up, that there must come a time, when we think about what legacy we might leave behind. I think that comes into play at some point. She is inexhaustible in her research and in the pursuit of 'getting it right'; she obviously has a mind that ranks right up there, as far as lucid, raw intelligence goes, as high as anybody who has ever posted here. (I know who is rolling their eyes right now, so don't think I don't.) Her style, her fighting instinct, her doggedness does not endear her to everyone. Fair enough. You don't have to like someone to appreciate their innate insistence on accuracy, on this kind of purity of defining things. She is, to me, very like a human barometer or other finely-tuned instrument that can't go against this nature of hers to give one an accurate reading. She can admit when she is wrong. She isn't easy at times, in fact she can be bloody ruthless. But I love that, in its proper time, in its proper context. The thing is, I don't believe Judy writes/asserts anything she does not truly believe - even at the risk of being wrong. If that is not honesty, then I don't know what is.
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
Thanks Share. I guess people develop certain habits, that become difficult to break. But I don't know how else you move forward. (-: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: Steve, I like your point in the second paragraph below: that it's always possible to find a flaw in what the other person has written. I definitely see myself doing that, hopefully less as time goes by. And I very much appreciate your point that the spirit of discussion is lost. Somehow it reminds me of the times when there is a great discussion on FFL, what that's like. Makes it worth hanging in here. From: seventhray27 steve.sundur@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2013 10:22 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann awoelflebater@ wrote: No 'taker' here but I will give something. I actually take umbrage at your assertion about Judy's honesty. I personally don't think she has a dishonest molecule in her body. In fact, I would go so far as to says she can't help but tell the truth, as she sees it and at the risk of seriously pissing everyone off. I do not believe Judy is about distracting her reader from what is the closest to the truth of a thing, as she sees it from her level. snip Ann, More credit to you, if you can follow her arguments. I find that they often become convoluted beyond any sensible conclusion. And I suspect that you, like most of us, don't bother to read past the first couple of rebuttals she makes, especially after the third of fourth iteration. I would say, that if anyone wants to find a flaw in another person's reasoning, they can do so. There is always some technical point that can be disputed. But, by that point the spirit of the argument, or discussion is lost, and the object becomes simply finding a way to win. Or maybe you decide to frame your argument in parameters that you alone determine as valid and win on that basis. Oh, and the sin of snipping. That can always be grounds for immediate dismissal of any points. Because snipping in Judy's book is to hide something, and not for conciseness. (unless she does it) And yes, she does have time, have time, have time for nearly unlimited research, (which we must remember is research when she does it, but internet stalking when done by someone else) So, all of this, for me, disputes any notion of honesty on Judy's part. But I certainly understand the attraction of having someone like Judy on your team.  She can disparage with best of them. But, I suspect that she would remain a better friend, or ally at a distance. And is it fair to bring up, that there must come a time, when we think about what legacy we might leave behind. I think that comes into play at some point.   She is inexhaustible in her research and in the pursuit of 'getting it right'; she obviously has a mind that ranks right up there, as far as lucid, raw intelligence goes, as high as anybody who has ever posted here. (I know who is rolling their eyes right now, so don't think I don't.) Her style, her fighting instinct, her doggedness does not endear her to everyone. Fair enough. You don't have to like someone to appreciate their innate insistence on accuracy, on this kind of purity of defining things. She is, to me, very like a human barometer or other finely-tuned instrument that can't go against this nature of hers to give one an accurate reading. She can admit when she is wrong. She isn't easy at times, in fact she can be bloody ruthless. But I love that, in its proper time, in its proper context. The thing is, I don't believe Judy writes/asserts anything she does not truly believe - even at the risk of being wrong. If that is not honesty, then I don't know what is.
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray27 steve.sundur@ wrote: As Ravi noted Judy, no one has any obligation to reveal personal details about themselves. You feel that you have done this. I'd have to disagree. Uh, no, Steve, I don't feel that I have done this, I *have* done this. It isn't a matter of agreement or disagreement, it's a fact and is on the record. Some of the on the record facts that have trickled out from Judy over the years: 1. She learned TM but never became a TM teacher. She claims that she never even wanted to become a TM teacher. 2. She never met Maharishi or was in the same room with him, although she has said that she tried once, and failed. That's the kind of perseverance that really makes for a dedicated spiritual seeker. :-) 3. She has claimed that she took checker training, but also that she never used it to actually check anyone's meditation. Presumably she learned it so she could argue more effectively on the Internet, not to actually help anyone with their meditation. :-) 4. She has never worked for or been close enough to the TM organization to make any meaningful comments about it and how it works, other than things told to her by TM teachers, who would have regarded her as a peon and thus given her the same doubletalk they presented to the public. 5. Her entire exposure to Maharishi's teachings, which she often presents herself as authoritative about, is based on things she heard on audio or videotape, things she's read in books, and things told to her by the afore- mentioned teachers who regarded her as a mere meditator and thus were unlikely to provide her with any real information about what was taught to *them*. 6. According to the little she has posted, her experience at TM rounding courses was seriously limited. She has admitted to being spaced out and somewhat incapable of functioning in the real world during those limited courses, so there is no reason to doubt her veracity on this, that being a rather common experience on such courses. :-) 7. She has said that she learned the TM Sidhis, but I for one don't remember her ever mentioning having performed them in a group, other than on the course she learned them on. Thus her experiences with group program should be regarded as somewhat limited, and not at the same level of experience as those who performed them in a group for many years. And what I am saying, is that it comes out naturally over a period of time. We knew more about Ann in two weeks, than we've known about you in all the time you've been here. That is not a fact, Steve. It's very far from a fact. I can't help but feel that that speaks to the fact that maybe there's not much there to share. I'm sorry about that. I'm sorry that you've chosen lying as the appropriate way to get back at me. What liars never seem to realize is that lying is an admission of defeat, as well as of a lack of self-respect. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula chivukula.ravi@ wrote: Yes - Steve, you can't even notice the contradictions in what you write. FFL is a place for discussion, so Judy doesn't have to reveal anything about herself - it's like you hilariously accused her of - a straw man argument. Not only that, it's not true that I haven't revealed anything about myself, as I pointed out to him awhile back when he made the same nitwit accusation. As I told Ann, he doesn't have any legitimate complaints, so he just makes 'em up. And then calls me dishonest.
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@... wrote: Truth, for you Judy is often a moving target. (from Steve) No, Steve, it is not. Why you've suddenly decided that telling whoppers about me is a good tactic, I really don't know. But I'd suggest that you rethink it, because it makes you look even more helplessly stupid than you already do. part of your loop, Judy
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray27 steve.sundur@ wrote: As Ravi noted Judy, no one has any obligation to reveal personal details about themselves. You feel that you have done this. I'd have to disagree. Uh, no, Steve, I don't feel that I have done this, I *have* done this. It isn't a matter of agreement or disagreement, it's a fact and is on the record. And that, my dear is the sad part. A few little green shoots in the desert. Maybe they're even brown most of the time. And what I am saying, is that it comes out naturally over a period of time. We knew more about Ann in two weeks, than we've known about you in all the time you've been here. That is not a fact, Steve. It's very far from a fact. I can't help but feel that that speaks to the fact that maybe there's not much there to share. I'm sorry about that. I'm sorry that you've chosen lying as the appropriate way to get back at me. What liars never seem to realize is that lying is an admission of defeat, as well as of a lack of self-respect. Ok, I do wish that you were a better example of some of these high minded sentiments you express. But as Ravi says, I love you anyway. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula chivukula.ravi@ wrote: Yes - Steve, you can't even notice the contradictions in what you write. FFL is a place for discussion, so Judy doesn't have to reveal anything about herself - it's like you hilariously accused her of - a straw man argument. Not only that, it's not true that I haven't revealed anything about myself, as I pointed out to him awhile back when he made the same nitwit accusation. As I told Ann, he doesn't have any legitimate complaints, so he just makes 'em up. And then calls me dishonest.
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
Must be DST Ravi. I don't know what's gotten into me! Help me Rhonda. Help, Help, Help me Rhonda! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula chivukula.ravi@... wrote: Steve - what the fuck is wrong with you. This is the first time I'm seeing dishonesty, deceptiveness creep in to your attacks on Judy - are you channeling Barry - it's not funny anymore, get a grip dude. On Mar 11, 2013, at 5:29 AM, seventhray27 steve.sundur@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray27 steve.sundur@ wrote: snip Oh, and the sin of snipping. That can always be grounds for immediate dismissal of any points. Because snipping in Judy's book is to hide something, and not for conciseness. (unless she does it) And yes, she does have time, have time, have time for nearly unlimited research, (which we must remember is research when she does it, but internet stalking when done by someone else) So, all of this, for me, disputes any notion of honesty on Judy's part. Except for the fact that what you say above about snipping and research is not true, and you know it's not true. Truth, for you Judy is often a moving target. As Curtis pointed, often the opportunity for a discussion that yields greater understanding is a casualty for a different agenda. Lying about a person isn't a very good way to make a case for their being dishonest, now, is it?
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
Dear Judy, I don't know if I would feel honoured or feel afraid. This man has evidently kept a long list compiled of your life history with regard to TM. What does this mean? Of course, at least half of it will be inaccurate but the FACT that he has done this is, er, interesting. Maybe it's time you got an extra lock on the door and some security; flights from Amsterdam arrive at Newark every day and Barry could be less than 10 hours away at any given time. Not THAT is a scary thought. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray27 steve.sundur@ wrote: As Ravi noted Judy, no one has any obligation to reveal personal details about themselves. You feel that you have done this. I'd have to disagree. Uh, no, Steve, I don't feel that I have done this, I *have* done this. It isn't a matter of agreement or disagreement, it's a fact and is on the record. Some of the on the record facts that have trickled out from Judy over the years: 1. She learned TM but never became a TM teacher. She claims that she never even wanted to become a TM teacher. 2. She never met Maharishi or was in the same room with him, although she has said that she tried once, and failed. That's the kind of perseverance that really makes for a dedicated spiritual seeker. :-) 3. She has claimed that she took checker training, but also that she never used it to actually check anyone's meditation. Presumably she learned it so she could argue more effectively on the Internet, not to actually help anyone with their meditation. :-) 4. She has never worked for or been close enough to the TM organization to make any meaningful comments about it and how it works, other than things told to her by TM teachers, who would have regarded her as a peon and thus given her the same doubletalk they presented to the public. 5. Her entire exposure to Maharishi's teachings, which she often presents herself as authoritative about, is based on things she heard on audio or videotape, things she's read in books, and things told to her by the afore- mentioned teachers who regarded her as a mere meditator and thus were unlikely to provide her with any real information about what was taught to *them*. 6. According to the little she has posted, her experience at TM rounding courses was seriously limited. She has admitted to being spaced out and somewhat incapable of functioning in the real world during those limited courses, so there is no reason to doubt her veracity on this, that being a rather common experience on such courses. :-) 7. She has said that she learned the TM Sidhis, but I for one don't remember her ever mentioning having performed them in a group, other than on the course she learned them on. Thus her experiences with group program should be regarded as somewhat limited, and not at the same level of experience as those who performed them in a group for many years. And what I am saying, is that it comes out naturally over a period of time. We knew more about Ann in two weeks, than we've known about you in all the time you've been here. That is not a fact, Steve. It's very far from a fact. I can't help but feel that that speaks to the fact that maybe there's not much there to share. I'm sorry about that. I'm sorry that you've chosen lying as the appropriate way to get back at me. What liars never seem to realize is that lying is an admission of defeat, as well as of a lack of self-respect. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula chivukula.ravi@ wrote: Yes - Steve, you can't even notice the contradictions in what you write. FFL is a place for discussion, so Judy doesn't have to reveal anything about herself - it's like you hilariously accused her of - a straw man argument. Not only that, it's not true that I haven't revealed anything about myself, as I pointed out to him awhile back when he made the same nitwit accusation. As I told Ann, he doesn't have any legitimate complaints, so he just makes 'em up. And then calls me dishonest.
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray27 steve.sundur@ wrote: As Ravi noted Judy, no one has any obligation to reveal personal details about themselves. You feel that you have done this. I'd have to disagree. Uh, no, Steve, I don't feel that I have done this, I *have* done this. It isn't a matter of agreement or disagreement, it's a fact and is on the record. Some of the on the record facts that have trickled out from Judy over the years: 1. She learned TM but never became a TM teacher. She claims that she never even wanted to become a TM teacher. More or less correct. I considered it but decided against it for several reasons, not least my extreme dislike of the TMO. 2. She never met Maharishi or was in the same room with him, although she has said that she tried once, and failed. Because Maharishi didn't turn up. That's the kind of perseverance that really makes for a dedicated spiritual seeker. :-) Actually I never thought being around Maharishi was a requirement. 3. She has claimed that she took checker training, but also that she never used it to actually check anyone's meditation. Actually I never claimed that I never used it to check anyone's meditation. I didn't, but that was because I never got around to getting certified. Presumably she learned it so she could argue more effectively on the Internet, not to actually help anyone with their meditation. :-) Not true. 4. She has never worked for or been close enough to the TM organization to make any meaningful comments about it and how it works, other than things told to her by TM teachers, who would have regarded her as a peon and thus given her the same doubletalk they presented to the public. Except for the months I spent living at the TM facility in Asbury Park in '95-'96. I wasn't working for the movement, but I was right in the middle of it and saw (and was told) quite a bit that would not ordinarily be available to peons. 5. Her entire exposure to Maharishi's teachings, which she often presents herself as authoritative about, is based on things she heard on audio or videotape, Audio and videotape of Maharishi teaching... things she's read in books, ...and books by Maharishi. and things told to her by the afore- mentioned teachers who regarded her as a mere meditator and thus were unlikely to provide her with any real information about what was taught to *them*. You forgot what I've learned about what teachers were taught from the teachers on the various TM forums I've been participating in since '95. 6. According to the little she has posted, her experience at TM rounding courses was seriously limited. Au contraire, according to what I've posted I've been on *many* residence courses and WPAs. Why lie about this, Barry, when it's on the record? She has admitted to being spaced out and somewhat incapable of functioning in the real world during those limited courses, Again, au contraire, I have said no such thing. so there is no reason to doubt her veracity on this, that being a rather common experience on such courses. :-) 7. She has said that she learned the TM Sidhis, but I for one don't remember her ever mentioning having performed them in a group, other than on the course she learned them on. Thus her experiences with group program should be regarded as somewhat limited, and not at the same level of experience as those who performed them in a group for many years. Actually did group program for several years at the Manhattan TM Center, plus all the WPAs. And of course what I've said about myself on FFL has by no means been limited to my TM-related experience. And what I am saying, is that it comes out naturally over a period of time. We knew more about Ann in two weeks, than we've known about you in all the time you've been here. That is not a fact, Steve. It's very far from a fact. I can't help but feel that that speaks to the fact that maybe there's not much there to share. I'm sorry about that. I'm sorry that you've chosen lying as the appropriate way to get back at me. What liars never seem to realize is that lying is an admission of defeat, as well as of a lack of self-respect.
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
In other words, Barry, Judy continues to practice TM, while you who quit forty years ago, insist upon your superior knowledge of it. Got it. Now can I burst out laughing at you? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray27 steve.sundur@ wrote: As Ravi noted Judy, no one has any obligation to reveal personal details about themselves. You feel that you have done this. I'd have to disagree. Uh, no, Steve, I don't feel that I have done this, I *have* done this. It isn't a matter of agreement or disagreement, it's a fact and is on the record. Some of the on the record facts that have trickled out from Judy over the years: 1. She learned TM but never became a TM teacher. She claims that she never even wanted to become a TM teacher. 2. She never met Maharishi or was in the same room with him, although she has said that she tried once, and failed. That's the kind of perseverance that really makes for a dedicated spiritual seeker. :-) 3. She has claimed that she took checker training, but also that she never used it to actually check anyone's meditation. Presumably she learned it so she could argue more effectively on the Internet, not to actually help anyone with their meditation. :-) 4. She has never worked for or been close enough to the TM organization to make any meaningful comments about it and how it works, other than things told to her by TM teachers, who would have regarded her as a peon and thus given her the same doubletalk they presented to the public. 5. Her entire exposure to Maharishi's teachings, which she often presents herself as authoritative about, is based on things she heard on audio or videotape, things she's read in books, and things told to her by the afore- mentioned teachers who regarded her as a mere meditator and thus were unlikely to provide her with any real information about what was taught to *them*. 6. According to the little she has posted, her experience at TM rounding courses was seriously limited. She has admitted to being spaced out and somewhat incapable of functioning in the real world during those limited courses, so there is no reason to doubt her veracity on this, that being a rather common experience on such courses. :-) 7. She has said that she learned the TM Sidhis, but I for one don't remember her ever mentioning having performed them in a group, other than on the course she learned them on. Thus her experiences with group program should be regarded as somewhat limited, and not at the same level of experience as those who performed them in a group for many years. And what I am saying, is that it comes out naturally over a period of time. We knew more about Ann in two weeks, than we've known about you in all the time you've been here. That is not a fact, Steve. It's very far from a fact. I can't help but feel that that speaks to the fact that maybe there's not much there to share. I'm sorry about that. I'm sorry that you've chosen lying as the appropriate way to get back at me. What liars never seem to realize is that lying is an admission of defeat, as well as of a lack of self-respect. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula chivukula.ravi@ wrote: Yes - Steve, you can't even notice the contradictions in what you write. FFL is a place for discussion, so Judy doesn't have to reveal anything about herself - it's like you hilariously accused her of - a straw man argument. Not only that, it's not true that I haven't revealed anything about myself, as I pointed out to him awhile back when he made the same nitwit accusation. As I told Ann, he doesn't have any legitimate complaints, so he just makes 'em up. And then calls me dishonest.
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
Perhaps in an isolated small town, TM can become this way. In a busy urban context, there is no way to do this. That is the primary reason I stopped doing the TMSP - not practical, at all. I had a family, a household, a full time job, and a social life. How was I supposed to get about two hours of meditation in, every day? Even when I worked for the TMO, rounding was a pain. Sure I had some deep experiences, but mostly, it was a chore. I mostly went along with the 200 percent idea, and do now, that the practice of TM was only as good as my overall life is. Maharishi may have emphasized the Bliss during meditation, to stress its effectiveness, but his message was definitely for householders, and how to make their busy lives easier to deal with, by lowering stress, and improving health. So, if I was isolated, and had the means to pay my bills, I might get into the blissy, addictive nature of TM, though I would bet people living this way are a tiny minority of the active TM population. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray27 steve.sundur@... wrote: Curtis, what you say rings true with my experience. I don't understand the need to excessively qualify everything you say as my opinion this, or my opinion that. I think that is pretty obvious. My buy in was also tremendous. My take away from the experience is at a different point on the scale than yours, but I don't think you are skewing the whole affair by any means. And furthermore this place is greatly enhanced by your participation. I know you hear this a alot and the reason is, because it's just true. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Yeah, I don't think this covers the comparison with cocaine and gambling. That goes beyond just being honest about your own POV. The reward centers of our brains do not make the value judgements about what triggers the endorphins. My point concerns the content free reward system itself. And since I spent a lot of time being fulltime I saw a lot of people whose lives were a wreck from their fixation on meditation. Later after I got out I spent time with families who had been torn apart by their kids over-involvement and inability to support themselves. So the comparisons with other activities that can incapacitate people due to an uncontrollable urge like for rounding courses is not without some basis in my experience. And these levels of exposure was what Maharishi was pushing when I was involved. It was what he wanted from his teachers. Most people who start TM never get to that level of involvement. But on the other hand most people who start TM, stop TM too. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ I think addiction is a tricky term to use. It's handy when you want to discourage people from trying TM or suggest there's something dangerous about it, because the term is usually pejorative; but then there's the whole positive addiction theory to be considered. I agree that addiction can be overused and misapplied. I believe in the case of TM it applies, but I get it that you do not. I think it can be considered a positive addiction for most of those who find it addicting at all. I believe it triggers a similar reward system at the synaptic level that drugs do. At least that is how I experience it. I have no objection to this as long as you make it clear it's your experience. That was how it was first pitched in the West, as a drug-free high. By the TMO? Of course, when you cite cocaine addiction as if it were similar to addiction to TM, your intention to load your argument becomes obvious. We were discussing it in the context of all sorts of things people can be addicted to including gambling. Also a negative addiction. And there are many valid distinctions to draw between them. But my focus was just on the brain reward system aspect. With meditation it is so high that it can lead to people being satisfied just meditating. That was Guru Dev's life before he hit the Shankaracharya lottery right? And he is far from the only one. It was how I lived at sidhaland. We switched the balance there from meditating for activity to just acting as much as we had to to get back to program. It was all Maharishi directed and it went on for 3 years for me. So I am not overstating the case of how absorbed you can get with these euphoric states of mind. In a Siddhaland-type context, sure. But you didn't specify that to begin with. It sounded as though you were speaking generally. Do you think I have an agenda
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray27 steve.sundur@... wrote: Ravi, just let me know if you wish to look at some examples of what an idiot truly is. I will be more than happy to provide such examples from your own public postings here. Is this something you'd like to compare and contrast? Just let me know, and I promise I'll keep it on the level. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula chivukula.ravi@ wrote: On Mar 9, 2013, at 8:51 PM, seventhray27 steve.sundur@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula chivukula.ravi@ wrote: On Mar 9, 2013, at 8:22 PM, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray27 steve.sundur@ wrote: Judy, I'm afraid you are not making a lot of sense. Of course you are! LOL..a very strategy to deal with this idiot. Of course you are! You lost it, I am what? Hard to believe you are a native speaker. Now I extend this privilege of calling you an idiot for the rest of eternity..LOL --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: -- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Yeah, I don't think this covers the comparison with cocaine and gambling. That goes beyond just being honest about your own POV. The reward centers of our brains do not make the value judgements about what triggers the endorphins. Duh. Right, you do that. My point is that it happens on another level of the brain. You were accusing me of making a comparison between TM and drugs and gambling but it was on the wrong brain functioning level. I am talking about an area of the brain where they are more similar in effect. And I'm talking about word choice. But you knew that. My point concerns the content free reward system itself. And since I spent a lot of time being fulltime I saw a lot of people whose lives were a wreck from their fixation on meditation. Later after I got out I spent time with families who had been torn apart by their kids over- involvement and inability to support themselves. So the comparisons with other activities that can incapacitate people due to an uncontrollable urge like for rounding courses is not without some basis in my experience. I didn't say it never happened. Of course it does. But I don't believe--I'd have to be shown hard evidence to the contrary--that it's common among TMers generally. Like I said , what is most common among TMers is that they quit TM and I know this for a fact. Non sequitur, since we're talking about people who practice TM. You said it yourself: you were/are the type of person who does get addicted, and you chose to spend time in an environment that catered to that addiction, with others who were likely to be vulnerable to it as well. I was the type of person who had really charming experiences in meditation. It was the goal of the practice to have the experiences I was having. That must have been one of the secret teachings not divulged to the hoi polloi. In my experience the more charming, the more addictive. But this is content free positive experience divorced from achievement. I am calling into question the whole goal of the yoga systems including TM. Well, including TM for those privy to the secret teachings, but not including TM for the ordinary TMer, who, in my experience, was told most emphatically that the value of TM was one's experience in activity, not one's experience during meditation. I think it behooves you to make this very clear when you deliver your POV, especially when you're talking to someone who is unlikely to be able to figure it out on his or her own. So you think Emily was confused that I am always expressing my own POV when I post here? I'll give her a bit more credit. Oh, please, Curtis, you don't limit yourself to your own POV here, including in this exchange. Just for one example, above you write, It was the goal of the practice to have the experiences I
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann awoelflebater@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: This is what Curtis said, and Judy challenged: And this was Maharishi's stated goal, fulfillment divorced from achievement. 'nuff said. I'm quite surprised I had to point it out to you. Also, enlightened people, contrary to a lot of beliefs, don't act like pleasant eunuchs. All of them I have met have pretty normal personalities. Hmmm, I think I know normal when I see it. It tends not to stand out. I think, but I could be wrong, that you are confusing normal with boring. Yes, you are wrong. Well, it will hardly be the first time.
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
I really appreciate that Steve, especially because we have both chosen different points on the scale in our personal take away. The fact that this partial agreement and appreciation for what I write is followed by a rash of taunting is one of the weirder aspects of the joint. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray27 steve.sundur@... wrote: Curtis, what you say rings true with my experience. I don't understand the need to excessively qualify everything you say as my opinion this, or my opinion that. I think that is pretty obvious. My buy in was also tremendous. My take away from the experience is at a different point on the scale than yours, but I don't think you are skewing the whole affair by any means. And furthermore this place is greatly enhanced by your participation. I know you hear this a alot and the reason is, because it's just true. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Yeah, I don't think this covers the comparison with cocaine and gambling. That goes beyond just being honest about your own POV. The reward centers of our brains do not make the value judgements about what triggers the endorphins. My point concerns the content free reward system itself. And since I spent a lot of time being fulltime I saw a lot of people whose lives were a wreck from their fixation on meditation. Later after I got out I spent time with families who had been torn apart by their kids over-involvement and inability to support themselves. So the comparisons with other activities that can incapacitate people due to an uncontrollable urge like for rounding courses is not without some basis in my experience. And these levels of exposure was what Maharishi was pushing when I was involved. It was what he wanted from his teachers. Most people who start TM never get to that level of involvement. But on the other hand most people who start TM, stop TM too. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ I think addiction is a tricky term to use. It's handy when you want to discourage people from trying TM or suggest there's something dangerous about it, because the term is usually pejorative; but then there's the whole positive addiction theory to be considered. I agree that addiction can be overused and misapplied. I believe in the case of TM it applies, but I get it that you do not. I think it can be considered a positive addiction for most of those who find it addicting at all. I believe it triggers a similar reward system at the synaptic level that drugs do. At least that is how I experience it. I have no objection to this as long as you make it clear it's your experience. That was how it was first pitched in the West, as a drug-free high. By the TMO? Of course, when you cite cocaine addiction as if it were similar to addiction to TM, your intention to load your argument becomes obvious. We were discussing it in the context of all sorts of things people can be addicted to including gambling. Also a negative addiction. And there are many valid distinctions to draw between them. But my focus was just on the brain reward system aspect. With meditation it is so high that it can lead to people being satisfied just meditating. That was Guru Dev's life before he hit the Shankaracharya lottery right? And he is far from the only one. It was how I lived at sidhaland. We switched the balance there from meditating for activity to just acting as much as we had to to get back to program. It was all Maharishi directed and it went on for 3 years for me. So I am not overstating the case of how absorbed you can get with these euphoric states of mind. In a Siddhaland-type context, sure. But you didn't specify that to begin with. It sounded as though you were speaking generally. Do you think I have an agenda to turn people off of practicing TM? I don't. Emily can figure out for herself if TM is for her. But here I have a chance to express what I really think about it outside the PR angle that some person might get turned off to TM by me being honest about my POV on meditation. Yeah, I don't think this covers the comparison with cocaine and gambling. That goes beyond just being honest about your own POV. It is a fascinating area for me and the jury is not in about any of it. I have come to believe that certain experiences of heightened states of bliss are not productive. For you. I am trying to understand how it was so easy for me to drop out of the sidhis
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula chivukula.ravi@... wrote: On Mar 9, 2013, at 8:21 PM, authfriend authfriend@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray27 steve.sundur@ wrote: Curtis, what you say rings true with my experience. Of course it does! Indeed - the hard on Steve gets every time he sees Curtis is pretty repulsing - at least to me. No offense to you here, Curtis - just Steve. I don't really get this Ravi. You are capable of being friendly with people here and giving them a high five if you agree. Why get so bent when Steve does it? We were both in the same group and shared many of the same experiences so it shouldn't surprise you that we often see eye to eye. Mostly he was high fiving me for contributing some sincere writing, sharing my perspective and inviting others to do the same. Did you read Xeno's reply? Some interesting stuff came out of it. I wish you would share more of your experiences with spirituality this way. I liked the concerns you brought up here - just disagree with your conclusions and how you brush off all cults, religion. Glad Judy challenged that. I suspect we have many points of agreement in our views about spiritual groups Ravi. It is a little harder because my experience is mostly localized in a group you weren't in. But many groups share a lot of similarities, especially in how the followers operate. I don't understand the need to excessively qualify everything you say as my opinion this, or my opinion that. I think that is pretty obvious. My buy in was also tremendous. My take away from the experience is at a different point on the scale than yours, but I don't think you are skewing the whole affair by any means. And furthermore this place is greatly enhanced by your participation. I know you hear this a alot and the reason is, because it's just true. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Yeah, I don't think this covers the comparison with cocaine and gambling. That goes beyond just being honest about your own POV. The reward centers of our brains do not make the value judgements about what triggers the endorphins. My point concerns the content free reward system itself. And since I spent a lot of time being fulltime I saw a lot of people whose lives were a wreck from their fixation on meditation. Later after I got out I spent time with families who had been torn apart by their kids over-involvement and inability to support themselves. So the comparisons with other activities that can incapacitate people due to an uncontrollable urge like for rounding courses is not without some basis in my experience. And these levels of exposure was what Maharishi was pushing when I was involved. It was what he wanted from his teachers. Most people who start TM never get to that level of involvement. But on the other hand most people who start TM, stop TM too. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ I think addiction is a tricky term to use. It's handy when you want to discourage people from trying TM or suggest there's something dangerous about it, because the term is usually pejorative; but then there's the whole positive addiction theory to be considered. I agree that addiction can be overused and misapplied. I believe in the case of TM it applies, but I get it that you do not. I think it can be considered a positive addiction for most of those who find it addicting at all. I believe it triggers a similar reward system at the synaptic level that drugs do. At least that is how I experience it. I have no objection to this as long as you make it clear it's your experience. That was how it was first pitched in the West, as a drug-free high. By the TMO? Of course, when you cite cocaine addiction as if it were similar to addiction to TM, your intention to load your argument becomes obvious. We were discussing it in the context of all sorts of things people can be addicted to including gambling. Also a negative addiction. And there are many valid distinctions to draw between them. But my focus was just on the brain reward system aspect. With meditation it is so high that it can lead to people being satisfied just meditating. That was Guru Dev's life before he hit the Shankaracharya lottery right? And he is far from the only one. It was how I lived at
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@... wrote: Well, including TM for those privy to the secret teachings, but not including TM for the ordinary TMer, who, in my experience, was told most emphatically that the value of TM was one's experience in activity, not one's experience during meditation. You are mixing up two very distinct levels of the teaching here. One is the instruction to meditators not to try to manipulate their practice during the practice by preferring any experience over another during the practice, or worrying about it afterwards. But the fact that our practice has experiential goals, especially after you have been doing it for a while and in an advanced group context is pretty obvious. Do you mean you were never on a course where you rated your experiences with A, B and C for how clear your transcending was and how much time you spent there? Are you unclear that the goals of Maharishi's meditaiton are clear transcending, witnessing transcending, witnessing the celestial level, realizing that what you are experiencing as outside you is actually the same unboundeness as your own Self, having that thread of unity woven into the cloth of Brahaman as even those things not directly perceived are enveloped by your Self...it goes on. When you only write from the perspective of how a non meditator or new meditator might misunderstand something you are not writing authentically from your own experience as I am. You are filtering it through some PR concern. If we can't let it all hang out here and discuss what we really think about this practice here, where could we? Judy Oh, please, Curtis, you don't limit yourself to your own POV here, including in this exchange. Just for one example, above you write, It was the goal of the practice to have the experiences I was having. And you refer to what you're questioning as the whole goal of the yoga systems including TM. Those are statements made as if of established fact. And they may *be* established fact. My point is that you make factual statements as well as POV statements, but some of your POV statements are indistinguishable from your factual statements. I don't believe your distinction holds up. Obviously as a trained teacher of TM and MIU grad I have confidence in my POV about his teaching. But I am not representing the organization here. (Or anywhere) So I can believe something I am stating is a fact but I would never expect anyone else to just take it on face value. I am quite obviously viewing the system from outside of it in my own original way. That influences everything I say here. So for someone to take what I write as the definitive statement of fact about the teaching would be pretty idiotic. And it was always like this even when Maharishi was alive. There was no one person other than him who held the authority to speak for him without the caveat that we were all doing the best we could from whatever the level of consciousness we were in. As soon as you move off the memorized scripts used in teaching and checking, you were in the world of not Maharishi. So your complaint about me could be leveled at Bevan every time he opens his mouth about the wholeness of life or to receive a whole meat-lover's pizza as a reward for lumbering through a very low hanging hoop in the walrus show. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: -- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Yeah, I don't think this covers the comparison with cocaine and gambling. That goes beyond just being honest about your own POV. The reward centers of our brains do not make the value judgements about what triggers the endorphins. Duh. Right, you do that. My point is that it happens on another level of the brain. You were accusing me of making a comparison between TM and drugs and gambling but it was on the wrong brain functioning level. I am talking about an area of the brain where they are more similar in effect. And I'm talking about word choice. But you knew that. My point concerns the content free reward system itself. And since I spent a lot of time being fulltime I saw a lot of people whose lives were a wreck from their fixation on meditation. Later after I got out I spent time with families who had been torn apart by their kids over- involvement and inability to support themselves. So the comparisons with other activities that can incapacitate people due to an uncontrollable urge like for rounding courses is not without some basis in my experience. I didn't say it never happened. Of course it does. But I don't believe--I'd have to be shown hard
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
I think Steve is very often a reasonable, compassionate and honest voice on FFL. And yet I also enjoy the different kinds of voices here. A lot of what you wrote made me think, Curtis and I appreciate that too. From: curtisdeltablues curtisdeltabl...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2013 9:48 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment. I really appreciate that Steve, especially because we have both chosen different points on the scale in our personal take away. The fact that this partial agreement and appreciation for what I write is followed by a rash of taunting is one of the weirder aspects of the joint. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray27 steve.sundur@... wrote: Curtis, what you say rings true with my experience. I don't understand the need to excessively qualify everything you say as my opinion this, or my opinion that. I think that is pretty obvious. My buy in was also tremendous. My take away from the experience is at a different point on the scale than yours, but I don't think you are skewing the whole affair by any means. And furthermore this place is greatly enhanced by your participation. I know you hear this a alot and the reason is, because it's just true. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Yeah, I don't think this covers the comparison with cocaine and gambling. That goes beyond just being honest about your own POV. The reward centers of our brains do not make the value judgements about what triggers the endorphins. My point concerns the content free reward system itself. And since I spent a lot of time being fulltime I saw a lot of people whose lives were a wreck from their fixation on meditation. Later after I got out I spent time with families who had been torn apart by their kids over-involvement and inability to support themselves. So the comparisons with other activities that can incapacitate people due to an uncontrollable urge like for rounding courses is not without some basis in my experience. And these levels of exposure was what Maharishi was pushing when I was involved. It was what he wanted from his teachers. Most people who start TM never get to that level of involvement. But on the other hand most people who start TM, stop TM too. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ I think addiction is a tricky term to use. It's handy when you want to discourage people from trying TM or suggest there's something dangerous about it, because the term is usually pejorative; but then there's the whole positive addiction theory to be considered. I agree that addiction can be overused and misapplied. I believe in the case of TM it applies, but I get it that you do not. I think it can be considered a positive addiction for most of those who find it addicting at all. I believe it triggers a similar reward system at the synaptic level that drugs do. At least that is how I experience it. I have no objection to this as long as you make it clear it's your experience. That was how it was first pitched in the West, as a drug-free high. By the TMO? Of course, when you cite cocaine addiction as if it were similar to addiction to TM, your intention to load your argument becomes obvious. We were discussing it in the context of all sorts of things people can be addicted to including gambling. Also a negative addiction. And there are many valid distinctions to draw between them. But my focus was just on the brain reward system aspect. With meditation it is so high that it can lead to people being satisfied just meditating. That was Guru Dev's life before he hit the Shankaracharya lottery right? And he is far from the only one. It was how I lived at sidhaland. We switched the balance there from meditating for activity to just acting as much as we had to to get back to program. It was all Maharishi directed and it went on for 3 years for me. So I am not overstating the case of how absorbed you can get with these euphoric states of mind. In a Siddhaland-type context, sure. But you didn't specify that to begin with. It sounded as though you were speaking generally. Do you think I have an agenda to turn people off of practicing TM? I don't. Emily can figure out for herself if TM is for her. But here I have a chance to express what I really think about it outside the PR angle that some person might get turned off to TM by me being
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@... wrote: I really appreciate that Steve, Of course you do! especially because we have both chosen different points on the scale in our personal take away. The fact that this partial agreement and appreciation for what I write is followed by a rash of taunting is one of the weirder aspects of the joint.
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
I honestly don't see the problem with strongly expressing myself on a forum dedicated to spiritual pursuits. After all, we are not expressing ourselves in a vacuum here. I also admit to getting very sarcastic sometimes in my responses. So what? Does this somehow make me abnormal, or even unenlightened? Does it even have a bearing on such things, or is it more that you just don't care for it? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann awoelflebater@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: This is what Curtis said, and Judy challenged: And this was Maharishi's stated goal, fulfillment divorced from achievement. 'nuff said. I'm quite surprised I had to point it out to you. Also, enlightened people, contrary to a lot of beliefs, don't act like pleasant eunuchs. All of them I have met have pretty normal personalities. Hmmm, I think I know normal when I see it. It tends not to stand out. I think, but I could be wrong, that you are confusing normal with boring. Yes, you are wrong.
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
I find it *weird* that Curtis calls out others for the behavior he tolerates in his buddy. Such a blind spot. I know this is an old topic, and one that Curtis dances away from with his, so, sue me, I'm just Curtis, response. However it really trashes his credibility when he tries to get all science-y. A person can't claim objective assessment, while clearly stating subjective pick and choose realities. I've never seen a blues singer dressed in a lab coat before. Seems both a little too convenient, and Halloween is still seven months away. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: I really appreciate that Steve, Of course you do! especially because we have both chosen different points on the scale in our personal take away. The fact that this partial agreement and appreciation for what I write is followed by a rash of taunting is one of the weirder aspects of the joint.
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
I am concerned with how people communicate with me. I am not in charge of how people communicate with each other. Your attempt to make me accountable for what other people say here will gain no traction with me. Your personal attacks on me for posting my perspective on Maharishi's teaching are all on you buddy, they reveal who you are. The only reason I even responded to you was that you tried to deny that you had made a personal attack on me as a response in a mind-bending display of your lack of self-awareness. So unable to say anything cogent about the content of my post, (as Judy did, even though I disagree with her opinion about it) and having been called out for your trolling personal attack behavior, you attempt one of the weirdest of the FFL moves, trying to blame me for what other people write, as if it is my job to scold people for interactions that don't involve me. Did you really think you were gunna make this fly after seeing Robin relentlessly try and fail the same thing? Faux outrage is one of the strangest of the FFL games. You don't like what I wrote, maybe you don't like me. OK fine. You have made your POV clear. But don't even try to run this kind of contrived bullshit on me dude. I was born at night, but it wasn't last night. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@... no_reply@... wrote: I find it *weird* that Curtis calls out others for the behavior he tolerates in his buddy. Such a blind spot. I know this is an old topic, and one that Curtis dances away from with his, so, sue me, I'm just Curtis, response. However it really trashes his credibility when he tries to get all science-y. A person can't claim objective assessment, while clearly stating subjective pick and choose realities. I've never seen a blues singer dressed in a lab coat before. Seems both a little too convenient, and Halloween is still seven months away. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: I really appreciate that Steve, Of course you do! especially because we have both chosen different points on the scale in our personal take away. The fact that this partial agreement and appreciation for what I write is followed by a rash of taunting is one of the weirder aspects of the joint.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
In the dirt, my dear, in the dirt. My car during a similar timeframe in my life was a very non-sexy hornet. Looked a little like this. Now, a classic, like me, I'm sure. Smile. From: Ann awoelfleba...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2013 6:49 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment. Thank you dear Em. I am absolutely positive that you had your share of wildness in the woods too. Love the Emily Dickinson. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@... wrote: Dear Ann: Â Here is a poem for you in honor of you mentioning your wild night(s) on the hood of your mustang (a sexy car should be used for such) in the cornfields of Iowa: Wild Nights - Wild Nights! Were I with thee Wild Nights should be Our luxury! Futile - the Winds -Â To a Heart in port - Done with the Compass -Â Done with the Chart! Rowing in Eden -Â Ah, the Sea! Might I but moor - Tonight -Â in Thee! ~Emily Dickinson, written in 1861 This poem wasn't published until after her death. Â One of her editors expressed trepidation about publishing the poem, due to its unsrestrained tone of rapture and explicit text. - from the Seattle Pro Musica program. We've come a long way baby! Â Smile. Â Love, Emily
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
That is what the German people said during the Holocaust, to provide an extreme parallel to your response. In other words, when it is solely directed at you, you will voice an objection. Otherwise, wow, the world is a crazy place. I'd like to think the reason we participate on FFL is to question ourselves, vs. confirming our prejudices. What I often see from you is a faux openness, something safe, like, how do we really know what is what?. But when it gets down to your heart, what you truly feel, it is all turning it on something else. As if you are uncertain or ashamed to voice your true feelings. WTF, dude? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@... wrote: I am concerned with how people communicate with me. I am not in charge of how people communicate with each other. Your attempt to make me accountable for what other people say here will gain no traction with me. Your personal attacks on me for posting my perspective on Maharishi's teaching are all on you buddy, they reveal who you are. The only reason I even responded to you was that you tried to deny that you had made a personal attack on me as a response in a mind-bending display of your lack of self-awareness. So unable to say anything cogent about the content of my post, (as Judy did, even though I disagree with her opinion about it) and having been called out for your trolling personal attack behavior, you attempt one of the weirdest of the FFL moves, trying to blame me for what other people write, as if it is my job to scold people for interactions that don't involve me. Did you really think you were gunna make this fly after seeing Robin relentlessly try and fail the same thing? Faux outrage is one of the strangest of the FFL games. You don't like what I wrote, maybe you don't like me. OK fine. You have made your POV clear. But don't even try to run this kind of contrived bullshit on me dude. I was born at night, but it wasn't last night. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: I find it *weird* that Curtis calls out others for the behavior he tolerates in his buddy. Such a blind spot. I know this is an old topic, and one that Curtis dances away from with his, so, sue me, I'm just Curtis, response. However it really trashes his credibility when he tries to get all science-y. A person can't claim objective assessment, while clearly stating subjective pick and choose realities. I've never seen a blues singer dressed in a lab coat before. Seems both a little too convenient, and Halloween is still seven months away. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: I really appreciate that Steve, Of course you do! especially because we have both chosen different points on the scale in our personal take away. The fact that this partial agreement and appreciation for what I write is followed by a rash of taunting is one of the weirder aspects of the joint.
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@... no_reply@... wrote: Perhaps in an isolated small town, TM can become this way. In a busy urban context, there is no way to do this. That is the primary reason I stopped doing the TMSP - not practical, at all. I had a family, a household, a full time job, and a social life. How was I supposed to get about two hours of meditation in, every day? Thanks Jim. That also relates to my experience. In fact, I used to do afternoon program at the center here basically up until the time our first child was born. Then all those other factors took over, and it's pretty much been the outward stroke ever since. So, for me also, the bliss of meditation has given way to just enjoying activity more. Not that the bliss was a given anyway. And now, yes, the meditation is mostly for restorative purposes, and very enjoyable in that regard. Even when I worked for the TMO, rounding was a pain. Sure I had some deep experiences, but mostly, it was a chore. I think manycan relate to that. Of course, I was on long rounding courses, and the changes were always subtle and gradual, and oftentimes not noticeable until you left. I mostly went along with the 200 percent idea, and do now, that the practice of TM was only as good as my overall life is. Maharishi may have emphasized the Bliss during meditation, to stress its effectiveness, but his message was definitely for householders, and how to make their busy lives easier to deal with, by lowering stress, and improving health. True, but I guess we saw some message creep, or brand extension take place. So, if I was isolated, and had the means to pay my bills, I might get into the blissy, addictive nature of TM, though I would bet people living this way are a tiny minority of the active TM population. The thing is, the benefits of the next course or the next project' were always played up, and sacrafice was allowed. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray27 steve.sundur@ wrote: Curtis, what you say rings true with my experience. I don't understand the need to excessively qualify everything you say as my opinion this, or my opinion that. I think that is pretty obvious. My buy in was also tremendous. My take away from the experience is at a different point on the scale than yours, but I don't think you are skewing the whole affair by any means. And furthermore this place is greatly enhanced by your participation. I know you hear this a alot and the reason is, because it's just true. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Yeah, I don't think this covers the comparison with cocaine and gambling. That goes beyond just being honest about your own POV. The reward centers of our brains do not make the value judgements about what triggers the endorphins. My point concerns the content free reward system itself. And since I spent a lot of time being fulltime I saw a lot of people whose lives were a wreck from their fixation on meditation. Later after I got out I spent time with families who had been torn apart by their kids over-involvement and inability to support themselves. So the comparisons with other activities that can incapacitate people due to an uncontrollable urge like for rounding courses is not without some basis in my experience. And these levels of exposure was what Maharishi was pushing when I was involved. It was what he wanted from his teachers. Most people who start TM never get to that level of involvement. But on the other hand most people who start TM, stop TM too. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ I think addiction is a tricky term to use. It's handy when you want to discourage people from trying TM or suggest there's something dangerous about it, because the term is usually pejorative; but then there's the whole positive addiction theory to be considered. I agree that addiction can be overused and misapplied. I believe in the case of TM it applies, but I get it that you do not. I think it can be considered a positive addiction for most of those who find it addicting at all. I believe it triggers a similar reward system at the synaptic level that drugs do. At least that is how I experience it. I have no objection to this as long as you make it clear it's your experience. That was how it was first pitched in the West, as a drug-free high. By the TMO? Of course, when you cite cocaine addiction as if it were similar to addiction to TM, your intention to load your argument becomes obvious. We
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Well, including TM for those privy to the secret teachings, but not including TM for the ordinary TMer, who, in my experience, was told most emphatically that the value of TM was one's experience in activity, not one's experience during meditation. You are mixing up two very distinct levels of the teaching here. One is the instruction to meditators not to try to manipulate their practice during the practice by preferring any experience over another during the practice, or worrying about it afterwards. Oh, that's funny, Curtis. No, I wasn't even thinking of this. But the fact that our practice has experiential goals, especially after you have been doing it for a while and in an advanced group context is pretty obvious. Of course the practice has experiential goals. They're obvious from the start; they're why people take up TM in the first place: During the TM technique, the mind settles down effortlessly, experiencing quieter and quieter levels of thought. From time to time, the mind transcendsor goes beyondthought to the state of pure consciousness. As you continue to meditate 20 minutes twice a day, the qualities of that stateserenity, steadiness, harmonypermeate your life. Research indicates that the practice of the TM technique increases calmness and decreases stress. http://www.tm.org/inner-peace The Transcendental Meditation (TM) technique provides access to the profound silence of the inner Self that is deep inside everyone. With regular meditation, the peacefulness and bliss of that inner experience is naturally integrated into daily living leading to an enlightened life with a fully developed heart, mind and soul. http://www.tm.org/enlightenment And of course better health, decreased anxiety, greater productivity, improved relationships, etc., etc., etc. All goals that have to do with experience in activity, not just during meditation. Do you mean you were never on a course where you rated your experiences with A, B and C for how clear your transcending was and how much time you spent there? Actually, no, I wasn't. Went on lots of courses, too. (Last WPA I was on was sometime in 1995, so it's been awhile.) Are you unclear that the goals of Maharishi's meditaiton are clear transcending, witnessing transcending, witnessing the celestial level, realizing that what you are experiencing as outside you is actually the same unboundeness as your own Self, having that thread of unity woven into the cloth of Brahaman as even those things not directly perceived are enveloped by your Self...it goes on. I'm very clear that what *I* was taught was that the goal of Maharishi's meditation was enlightenment, not the neat experiences one may have while practicing it as an end in themselves. When you only write from the perspective of how a non meditator or new meditator might misunderstand something you are not writing authentically from your own experience as I am. You are filtering it through some PR concern. PR concern is weasel wording when we're talking about apparently factual statements that are potentially misleading to non- or new meditators. If we can't let it all hang out here and discuss what we really think about this practice here, where could we? Curtis, your context-shifting doesn't work on me any more, hasn't in quite some time. Nobody's objecting to discussing what we really think about the practice. Judy Oh, please, Curtis, you don't limit yourself to your own POV here, including in this exchange. Just for one example, above you write, It was the goal of the practice to have the experiences I was having. And you refer to what you're questioning as the whole goal of the yoga systems including TM. Those are statements made as if of established fact. And they may *be* established fact. My point is that you make factual statements as well as POV statements, but some of your POV statements are indistinguishable from your factual statements. I don't believe your distinction holds up. Obviously as a trained teacher of TM and MIU grad I have confidence in my POV about his teaching. But I am not representing the organization here. (Or anywhere) So I can believe something I am stating is a fact but I would never expect anyone else to just take it on face value. I am quite obviously viewing the system from outside of it in my own original way. That influences everything I say here. So for someone to take what I write as the definitive statement of fact about the teaching would be pretty idiotic. This is *such* a weird set of non sequiturs, especially since you've made a bunch of what are obviously intended to be definitive statements of fact about the teaching in this very post. (The main thrust, that having experiences during meditation is more important than
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@... no_reply@... wrote: snip I mostly went along with the 200 percent idea, and do now, that the practice of TM was only as good as my overall life is. Maharishi may have emphasized the Bliss during meditation, to stress its effectiveness, but his message was definitely for householders, and how to make their busy lives easier to deal with, by lowering stress, and improving health. So, if I was isolated, and had the means to pay my bills, I might get into the blissy, addictive nature of TM, though I would bet people living this way are a tiny minority of the active TM population. Exactly, well said. I can't speak for what was taught to teachers, but for the rank and file, the goal was to integrate the experience during meditation with one's daily life. Maharishi didn't write a book called The Science of Being; it was called The Science of Being and the Art of Living.
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@... wrote: snip So unable to say anything cogent about the content of my post, (as Judy did, even though I disagree with her opinion about it) and having been called out for your trolling personal attack behavior, you attempt one of the weirdest of the FFL moves, trying to blame me for what other people write, as if it is my job to scold people for interactions that don't involve me. Says Curtis, right after having administered a scolding for interactions that didn't involve him. To Steve: The fact that this partial agreement and appreciation for what I write is followed by a rash of taunting is one of the weirder aspects of the joint. Did you really think you were gunna make this fly after seeing Robin relentlessly try and fail the same thing? Robin wasn't the only one to call you out on your hypocrisy.
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: snip So unable to say anything cogent about the content of my post, (as Judy did, even though I disagree with her opinion about it) and having been called out for your trolling personal attack behavior, you attempt one of the weirdest of the FFL moves, trying to blame me for what other people write, as if it is my job to scold people for interactions that don't involve me. Says Curtis, right after having administered a scolding for interactions that didn't involve him. To Steve: The fact that this partial agreement and appreciation for what I write is followed by a rash of taunting is one of the weirder aspects of the joint. It involved me because it was jumping on Steve for complimenting ME. He was punishing Steve for saying something nice to me. And that does affect how people feel about responding positively to my posts. They know that the shit storm will descend from the usual suspects. Nice try little gadfly. And I am not saying I will never jump into someone else's interaction if I choose to, this is an open message board and we all do that sometimes if it interest me. I am just not buckling to outside pressure to scold certain people Jim and you don't like. I am not obligated to do so. Just as you are not and pick and choose our own battles from your own priority perspective. This shame angle doesn't work on me. Did you really think you were gunna make this fly after seeing Robin relentlessly try and fail the same thing? Robin wasn't the only one to call you out on your hypocrisy. Right, if I don't scold people you think I should scold, then I am a hypocrite and should never scold anyone that I choose to. The I am king baby routine isn't gunna work Judy. All discussions with you end up here don't they? You are boringly predictable. A little hammer looking for a nail. So you got your name calling buzz on today. What a contribution. Hey did you think that comparing me not scolding people Jim doesn't like here on FFL to the German's attitude before the Holocaust was cool? Did you jump on Jim for this idiotic, odious comparison? No, because just as I do, you pick your battles here,while trying to shame me into picking different ones than you do. You match Jim in your appalling lack of self awareness as well as a desire to unpleasantly attack people whose views differ from your own. If you are worried about Emily evaluating TM unfavorably, you might want to think about how you two pro TM guys show up here.
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Well, including TM for those privy to the secret teachings, but not including TM for the ordinary TMer, who, in my experience, was told most emphatically that the value of TM was one's experience in activity, not one's experience during meditation. You are mixing up two very distinct levels of the teaching here. One is the instruction to meditators not to try to manipulate their practice during the practice by preferring any experience over another during the practice, or worrying about it afterwards. Oh, that's funny, Curtis. No, I wasn't even thinking of this. But the fact that our practice has experiential goals, especially after you have been doing it for a while and in an advanced group context is pretty obvious. Of course the practice has experiential goals. They're obvious from the start; they're why people take up TM in the first place: During the TM technique, the mind settles down effortlessly, experiencing quieter and quieter levels of thought. From time to time, the mind transcendsor goes beyondthought to the state of pure consciousness. As you continue to meditate 20 minutes twice a day, the qualities of that stateserenity, steadiness, harmonypermeate your life. Research indicates that the practice of the TM technique increases calmness and decreases stress. http://www.tm.org/inner-peace The Transcendental Meditation (TM) technique provides access to the profound silence of the inner Self that is deep inside everyone. With regular meditation, the peacefulness and bliss of that inner experience is naturally integrated into daily living leading to an enlightened life with a fully developed heart, mind and soul. http://www.tm.org/enlightenment And of course better health, decreased anxiety, greater productivity, improved relationships, etc., etc., etc. All goals that have to do with experience in activity, not just during meditation. Once again you have sifted the discussion level inappropriately to the brochure level: how how TM is sold to the public. I would say that this tendency has plagued our discussions from the very first days of our interaction. I bring up a point from the perspective of an insider, and you try to show how it is different from what is shown on the brochures. The goal of Maharishi's programs was a state of consciousness. He sold it to the West in a form he thought they could relate to: benefits in activity. What activity enhancement do you think Tat Walla Baba was expressing sitting in his cave? It was his state of consciousness that Maharishi admired and it was developing this state of consciousness in us that was his goal. Do you mean you were never on a course where you rated your experiences with A, B and C for how clear your transcending was and how much time you spent there? Actually, no, I wasn't. Went on lots of courses, too. (Last WPA I was on was sometime in 1995, so it's been awhile.) Well then you really don't have the experiential basis to criticize what I wrote. Are you unclear that the goals of Maharishi's meditaiton are clear transcending, witnessing transcending, witnessing the celestial level, realizing that what you are experiencing as outside you is actually the same unboundeness as your own Self, having that thread of unity woven into the cloth of Brahaman as even those things not directly perceived are enveloped by your Self...it goes on. I'm very clear that what *I* was taught was that the goal of Maharishi's meditation was enlightenment, not the neat experiences one may have while practicing it as an end in themselves. Neat experiences is not what I am talking about. There are many guideposts in Maharishi's system to gaining enlightenment and on many courses I attended they were minutely analyzed. Not in contradiction to the higher goal, but as a way to understand the path in detail. When you only write from the perspective of how a no meditator or new meditator might misunderstand something you are not writing authentically from your own experience as I am. You are filtering it through some PR concern. PR concern is weasel wording when we're talking about apparently factual statements that are potentially misleading to non- or new meditators. I believe it is accurate. You are trying to spin what I wrote in a certain way. You are welcome to do it, but it appears like a PR concern to me. As Emily confirmed, she knows that when I post it is from my POV on Maharishi and his teaching. How could it be otherwise? If we can't let it all hang out here and discuss what we really think about this practice here, where could we? Curtis, your context-shifting
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: snip So unable to say anything cogent about the content of my post, (as Judy did, even though I disagree with her opinion about it) and having been called out for your trolling personal attack behavior, you attempt one of the weirdest of the FFL moves, trying to blame me for what other people write, as if it is my job to scold people for interactions that don't involve me. Says Curtis, right after having administered a scolding for interactions that didn't involve him. To Steve: The fact that this partial agreement and appreciation for what I write is followed by a rash of taunting is one of the weirder aspects of the joint. It involved me because it was jumping on Steve for complimenting ME. He was punishing Steve for saying something nice to me. Actually I started it, not because he said something nice to you, but because he's so stupidly *predictable*. You and I were having an argument, so he sided with you against me, as he virtually always does (he'll side with almost anybody against me). In his very next post he said I wasn't making much sense, and I responded the same way. (He isn't *smart* enough to get what I was saying.) Ravi thought that was a cool way to deal with Steve's empty-headed predictability, so he picked up on it, and we had fun batting Steve around with it. And that does affect how people feel about responding positively to my posts. They know that the shit storm will descend from the usual suspects. Oh, right, what a fierce shit storm that was. BTW, it didn't bother Steve. I don't know why it would bother anybody else. Except you, of course. You had to defend Steve from being teased by Big Bad Judy and Big Bad Ravi because he had sided with you, and you don't want to risk losing his approval. Nice try little gadfly. And I am not saying I will never jump into someone else's interaction if I choose to, this is an open message board and we all do that sometimes if it interest me. I am just not buckling to outside pressure to scold certain people Jim and you don't like. I don't think anybody was pressing you to do anything, just observing what you do (or in this case don't do-- unless, of course, you need to defend one of your allies). I am not obligated to do so. Just as you are not and pick and choose our own battles from your own priority perspective. This shame angle doesn't work on me. You are immune to any kind of shame, Curtis. You've been working on that for a long time. Unfortunately it doesn't stop others from commenting on what they consider shameful. Did you really think you were gunna make this fly after seeing Robin relentlessly try and fail the same thing? Robin wasn't the only one to call you out on your hypocrisy. Right, if I don't scold people you think I should scold, then I am a hypocrite and should never scold anyone that I choose to. The I am king baby routine isn't gunna work Judy. King Baby is Bob Price's and Ravi's name for Barry, not you. I don't know why you're invoking it in this context, particularly in the first person as if you were *quoting* Barry. All discussions with you end up here don't they? You are boringly predictable. A little hammer looking for a nail. I didn't bring it up. I just noted your hypocrisy when you dumped on DrD for mentioning it. So you got your name calling buzz on today. What a contribution. Hey did you think that comparing me not scolding people Jim doesn't like here on FFL to the German's attitude before the Holocaust was cool? Did you jump on Jim for this idiotic, odious comparison? He noted that it was an extreme parallel. If he hadn't, I would have. No, because just as I do, you pick your battles here, while trying to shame me into picking different ones than you do. Again, we're just *observing*. It's odd that you see it in terms of shaming you if you don't feel any shame. You match Jim in your appalling lack of self awareness as well as a desire to unpleasantly attack people whose views differ from your own. Da-da-da-da-da-da-da... If you are worried about Emily evaluating TM unfavorably, you might want to think about how you two pro TM guys show up here. The only reason I mentioned Emily is that your post was in response to her queries. I'm not concerned about how Emily views me. Say, you wouldn't be trying to shame *me*, would you? Of course not. What a silly idea.
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
And, Emily is not concerned about Judy not being concerned about how she views her, nor is she concerned about how Judy views her, or anyone else on FFL, for that matter. She's given up on being ashamed of herself, except when she is. Emily originally posed her question in a brief exchange with Share, predicting accurately that Share would back out of the conversation for many good reasons that she chose not to be concerned with at all, but hoping that someone on this public forum would take pity on her ignorance and weigh in, because she was curious and because she is doing some introspection right now on her life and how she deals with it. Emily was most impressed and interested in the responses and appreciative that there were responses. Emily doesn't understand many things that cross this forum, like how DST is related to digestion, for one. But, no matter, she paid no attention to it at all and was glad to be reminded to change the clocks! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: snip So unable to say anything cogent about the content of my post, (as Judy did, even though I disagree with her opinion about it) and having been called out for your trolling personal attack behavior, you attempt one of the weirdest of the FFL moves, trying to blame me for what other people write, as if it is my job to scold people for interactions that don't involve me. Says Curtis, right after having administered a scolding for interactions that didn't involve him. To Steve: The fact that this partial agreement and appreciation for what I write is followed by a rash of taunting is one of the weirder aspects of the joint. It involved me because it was jumping on Steve for complimenting ME. He was punishing Steve for saying something nice to me. Actually I started it, not because he said something nice to you, but because he's so stupidly *predictable*. You and I were having an argument, so he sided with you against me, as he virtually always does (he'll side with almost anybody against me). In his very next post he said I wasn't making much sense, and I responded the same way. (He isn't *smart* enough to get what I was saying.) Ravi thought that was a cool way to deal with Steve's empty-headed predictability, so he picked up on it, and we had fun batting Steve around with it. And that does affect how people feel about responding positively to my posts. They know that the shit storm will descend from the usual suspects. Oh, right, what a fierce shit storm that was. BTW, it didn't bother Steve. I don't know why it would bother anybody else. Except you, of course. You had to defend Steve from being teased by Big Bad Judy and Big Bad Ravi because he had sided with you, and you don't want to risk losing his approval. Nice try little gadfly. And I am not saying I will never jump into someone else's interaction if I choose to, this is an open message board and we all do that sometimes if it interest me. I am just not buckling to outside pressure to scold certain people Jim and you don't like. I don't think anybody was pressing you to do anything, just observing what you do (or in this case don't do-- unless, of course, you need to defend one of your allies). I am not obligated to do so. Just as you are not and pick and choose our own battles from your own priority perspective. This shame angle doesn't work on me. You are immune to any kind of shame, Curtis. You've been working on that for a long time. Unfortunately it doesn't stop others from commenting on what they consider shameful. Did you really think you were gunna make this fly after seeing Robin relentlessly try and fail the same thing? Robin wasn't the only one to call you out on your hypocrisy. Right, if I don't scold people you think I should scold, then I am a hypocrite and should never scold anyone that I choose to. The I am king baby routine isn't gunna work Judy. King Baby is Bob Price's and Ravi's name for Barry, not you. I don't know why you're invoking it in this context, particularly in the first person as if you were *quoting* Barry. All discussions with you end up here don't they? You are boringly predictable. A little hammer looking for a nail. I didn't bring it up. I just noted your hypocrisy when you dumped on DrD for mentioning it. So you got your name calling buzz on today. What a contribution. Hey did you think that comparing me not scolding people Jim doesn't like here on FFL to the German's attitude before the Holocaust was cool? Did you jump on
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
Emily doesn't understand many things that cross this forum, like how DST is related to digestion, for one. But, no matter, she paid no attention to it at all and was glad to be reminded to change the clocks! LOL..love you dear Em :-) On Sun, Mar 10, 2013 at 2:26 PM, emilymae.reyn emilymae.r...@yahoo.comwrote: ** And, Emily is not concerned about Judy not being concerned about how she views her, nor is she concerned about how Judy views her, or anyone else on FFL, for that matter. She's given up on being ashamed of herself, except when she is. Emily originally posed her question in a brief exchange with Share, predicting accurately that Share would back out of the conversation for many good reasons that she chose not to be concerned with at all, but hoping that someone on this public forum would take pity on her ignorance and weigh in, because she was curious and because she is doing some introspection right now on her life and how she deals with it. Emily was most impressed and interested in the responses and appreciative that there were responses. Emily doesn't understand many things that cross this forum, like how DST is related to digestion, for one. But, no matter, she paid no attention to it at all and was glad to be reminded to change the clocks! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: snip So unable to say anything cogent about the content of my post, (as Judy did, even though I disagree with her opinion about it) and having been called out for your trolling personal attack behavior, you attempt one of the weirdest of the FFL moves, trying to blame me for what other people write, as if it is my job to scold people for interactions that don't involve me. Says Curtis, right after having administered a scolding for interactions that didn't involve him. To Steve: The fact that this partial agreement and appreciation for what I write is followed by a rash of taunting is one of the weirder aspects of the joint. It involved me because it was jumping on Steve for complimenting ME. He was punishing Steve for saying something nice to me. Actually I started it, not because he said something nice to you, but because he's so stupidly *predictable*. You and I were having an argument, so he sided with you against me, as he virtually always does (he'll side with almost anybody against me). In his very next post he said I wasn't making much sense, and I responded the same way. (He isn't *smart* enough to get what I was saying.) Ravi thought that was a cool way to deal with Steve's empty-headed predictability, so he picked up on it, and we had fun batting Steve around with it. And that does affect how people feel about responding positively to my posts. They know that the shit storm will descend from the usual suspects. Oh, right, what a fierce shit storm that was. BTW, it didn't bother Steve. I don't know why it would bother anybody else. Except you, of course. You had to defend Steve from being teased by Big Bad Judy and Big Bad Ravi because he had sided with you, and you don't want to risk losing his approval. Nice try little gadfly. And I am not saying I will never jump into someone else's interaction if I choose to, this is an open message board and we all do that sometimes if it interest me. I am just not buckling to outside pressure to scold certain people Jim and you don't like. I don't think anybody was pressing you to do anything, just observing what you do (or in this case don't do-- unless, of course, you need to defend one of your allies). I am not obligated to do so. Just as you are not and pick and choose our own battles from your own priority perspective. This shame angle doesn't work on me. You are immune to any kind of shame, Curtis. You've been working on that for a long time. Unfortunately it doesn't stop others from commenting on what they consider shameful. Did you really think you were gunna make this fly after seeing Robin relentlessly try and fail the same thing? Robin wasn't the only one to call you out on your hypocrisy. Right, if I don't scold people you think I should scold, then I am a hypocrite and should never scold anyone that I choose to. The I am king baby routine isn't gunna work Judy. King Baby is Bob Price's and Ravi's name for Barry, not you. I don't know why you're invoking it in this context, particularly in the first person as if you were *quoting* Barry. All discussions with you end up here don't they? You are boringly
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
Thank you Share. It's always nice when we observe basic courtesies. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: I think Steve is very often a reasonable, compassionate and honest voice on FFL. And yet I also enjoy the different kinds of voices here. A lot of what you wrote made me think, Curtis and I appreciate that too. From: curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2013 9:48 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.  I really appreciate that Steve, especially because we have both chosen different points on the scale in our personal take away. The fact that this partial agreement and appreciation for what I write is followed by a rash of taunting is one of the weirder aspects of the joint. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray27 steve.sundur@ wrote: Curtis, what you say rings true with my experience. I don't understand the need to excessively qualify everything you say as my opinion this, or my opinion that. I think that is pretty obvious. My buy in was also tremendous. My take away from the experience is at a different point on the scale than yours, but I don't think you are skewing the whole affair by any means. And furthermore this place is greatly enhanced by your participation. I know you hear this a alot and the reason is, because it's just true. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Yeah, I don't think this covers the comparison with cocaine and gambling. That goes beyond just being honest about your own POV. The reward centers of our brains do not make the value judgements about what triggers the endorphins. My point concerns the content free reward system itself. And since I spent a lot of time being fulltime I saw a lot of people whose lives were a wreck from their fixation on meditation. Later after I got out I spent time with families who had been torn apart by their kids over-involvement and inability to support themselves. So the comparisons with other activities that can incapacitate people due to an uncontrollable urge like for rounding courses is not without some basis in my experience. And these levels of exposure was what Maharishi was pushing when I was involved. It was what he wanted from his teachers. Most people who start TM never get to that level of involvement. But on the other hand most people who start TM, stop TM too. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ I think addiction is a tricky term to use. It's handy when you want to discourage people from trying TM or suggest there's something dangerous about it, because the term is usually pejorative; but then there's the whole positive addiction theory to be considered. I agree that addiction can be overused and misapplied. I believe in the case of TM it applies, but I get it that you do not. I think it can be considered a positive addiction for most of those who find it addicting at all. I believe it triggers a similar reward system at the synaptic level that drugs do. At least that is how I experience it. I have no objection to this as long as you make it clear it's your experience. That was how it was first pitched in the West, as a drug-free high. By the TMO? Of course, when you cite cocaine addiction as if it were similar to addiction to TM, your intention to load your argument becomes obvious. We were discussing it in the context of all sorts of things people can be addicted to including gambling. Also a negative addiction. And there are many valid distinctions to draw between them. But my focus was just on the brain reward system aspect. With meditation it is so high that it can lead to people being satisfied just meditating. That was Guru Dev's life before he hit the Shankaracharya lottery right? And he is far from the only one. It was how I lived at sidhaland. We switched the balance there from meditating for activity to just acting as much as we had to to get back to program. It was all Maharishi directed and it went on for 3 years for me. So I am not overstating the case of how absorbed you can get with these euphoric states of mind. In a Siddhaland-type context, sure. But you didn't specify that to begin with. It sounded as though you were speaking generally. Do you think I have an agenda to turn people off of
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
You are right, I don't say this often enough but I love you dear Curtis. My mind is fantasizing on a woman - she seems to have all the qualities I would want my partner to. I can't screw this by getting too playful and blissy - you hear me? On Mar 10, 2013, at 7:56 AM, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltabl...@yahoo.com wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula chivukula.ravi@... wrote: On Mar 9, 2013, at 8:21 PM, authfriend authfriend@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray27 steve.sundur@ wrote: Curtis, what you say rings true with my experience. Of course it does! Indeed - the hard on Steve gets every time he sees Curtis is pretty repulsing - at least to me. No offense to you here, Curtis - just Steve. I don't really get this Ravi. You are capable of being friendly with people here and giving them a high five if you agree. Why get so bent when Steve does it? We were both in the same group and shared many of the same experiences so it shouldn't surprise you that we often see eye to eye. Mostly he was high fiving me for contributing some sincere writing, sharing my perspective and inviting others to do the same. Did you read Xeno's reply? Some interesting stuff came out of it. I wish you would share more of your experiences with spirituality this way. I liked the concerns you brought up here - just disagree with your conclusions and how you brush off all cults, religion. Glad Judy challenged that. I suspect we have many points of agreement in our views about spiritual groups Ravi. It is a little harder because my experience is mostly localized in a group you weren't in. But many groups share a lot of similarities, especially in how the followers operate. I don't understand the need to excessively qualify everything you say as my opinion this, or my opinion that. I think that is pretty obvious. My buy in was also tremendous. My take away from the experience is at a different point on the scale than yours, but I don't think you are skewing the whole affair by any means. And furthermore this place is greatly enhanced by your participation. I know you hear this a alot and the reason is, because it's just true. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Yeah, I don't think this covers the comparison with cocaine and gambling. That goes beyond just being honest about your own POV. The reward centers of our brains do not make the value judgements about what triggers the endorphins. My point concerns the content free reward system itself. And since I spent a lot of time being fulltime I saw a lot of people whose lives were a wreck from their fixation on meditation. Later after I got out I spent time with families who had been torn apart by their kids over-involvement and inability to support themselves. So the comparisons with other activities that can incapacitate people due to an uncontrollable urge like for rounding courses is not without some basis in my experience. And these levels of exposure was what Maharishi was pushing when I was involved. It was what he wanted from his teachers. Most people who start TM never get to that level of involvement. But on the other hand most people who start TM, stop TM too. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ I think addiction is a tricky term to use. It's handy when you want to discourage people from trying TM or suggest there's something dangerous about it, because the term is usually pejorative; but then there's the whole positive addiction theory to be considered. I agree that addiction can be overused and misapplied. I believe in the case of TM it applies, but I get it that you do not. I think it can be considered a positive addiction for most of those who find it addicting at all. I believe it triggers a similar reward system at the synaptic level that drugs do. At least that is how I experience it. I have no objection to this as long as you make it clear it's your experience. That was how it was first pitched in the West, as a drug-free high. By the TMO? Of course, when you cite cocaine addiction as if it were similar to addiction to TM, your intention to load your argument becomes obvious. We were discussing it in the context of all sorts of things people can be addicted to including
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
http://youtu.be/eCmrrO3do5k On Mar 10, 2013, at 3:30 PM, Ravi Chivukula chivukula.r...@gmail.com wrote: You are right, I don't say this often enough but I love you dear Curtis. My mind is fantasizing on a woman - she seems to have all the qualities I would want my partner to. I can't screw this by getting too playful and blissy - you hear me? On Mar 10, 2013, at 7:56 AM, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltabl...@yahoo.com wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula chivukula.ravi@... wrote: On Mar 9, 2013, at 8:21 PM, authfriend authfriend@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray27 steve.sundur@ wrote: Curtis, what you say rings true with my experience. Of course it does! Indeed - the hard on Steve gets every time he sees Curtis is pretty repulsing - at least to me. No offense to you here, Curtis - just Steve. I don't really get this Ravi. You are capable of being friendly with people here and giving them a high five if you agree. Why get so bent when Steve does it? We were both in the same group and shared many of the same experiences so it shouldn't surprise you that we often see eye to eye. Mostly he was high fiving me for contributing some sincere writing, sharing my perspective and inviting others to do the same. Did you read Xeno's reply? Some interesting stuff came out of it. I wish you would share more of your experiences with spirituality this way. I liked the concerns you brought up here - just disagree with your conclusions and how you brush off all cults, religion. Glad Judy challenged that. I suspect we have many points of agreement in our views about spiritual groups Ravi. It is a little harder because my experience is mostly localized in a group you weren't in. But many groups share a lot of similarities, especially in how the followers operate. I don't understand the need to excessively qualify everything you say as my opinion this, or my opinion that. I think that is pretty obvious. My buy in was also tremendous. My take away from the experience is at a different point on the scale than yours, but I don't think you are skewing the whole affair by any means. And furthermore this place is greatly enhanced by your participation. I know you hear this a alot and the reason is, because it's just true. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Yeah, I don't think this covers the comparison with cocaine and gambling. That goes beyond just being honest about your own POV. The reward centers of our brains do not make the value judgements about what triggers the endorphins. My point concerns the content free reward system itself. And since I spent a lot of time being fulltime I saw a lot of people whose lives were a wreck from their fixation on meditation. Later after I got out I spent time with families who had been torn apart by their kids over-involvement and inability to support themselves. So the comparisons with other activities that can incapacitate people due to an uncontrollable urge like for rounding courses is not without some basis in my experience. And these levels of exposure was what Maharishi was pushing when I was involved. It was what he wanted from his teachers. Most people who start TM never get to that level of involvement. But on the other hand most people who start TM, stop TM too. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ I think addiction is a tricky term to use. It's handy when you want to discourage people from trying TM or suggest there's something dangerous about it, because the term is usually pejorative; but then there's the whole positive addiction theory to be considered. I agree that addiction can be overused and misapplied. I believe in the case of TM it applies, but I get it that you do not. I think it can be considered a positive addiction for most of those who find it addicting at all. I believe it triggers a similar reward system at the synaptic level that drugs do. At least that is how I experience it. I have no objection to this as long as you make it clear it's your experience. That was how it was first pitched in the West, as a drug-free high. By the TMO? Of course, when you cite cocaine addiction as if it were similar to addiction to TM, your intention to load your argument becomes
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
God, Ravi, you crack me up. I needed a good laugh. Yes, remember to observe basic courtesies and don't show her FFL. :) From: Ravi Chivukula chivukula.r...@gmail.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2013 3:40 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment. http://youtu.be/eCmrrO3do5k On Mar 10, 2013, at 3:30 PM, Ravi Chivukula chivukula.r...@gmail.com wrote: You are right, I don't say this often enough but I love you dear Curtis. My mind is fantasizing on a woman - she seems to have all the qualities I would want my partner to. I can't screw this by getting too playful and blissy - you hear me? On Mar 10, 2013, at 7:56 AM, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltabl...@yahoo.com wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula chivukula.ravi@... wrote: On Mar 9, 2013, at 8:21 PM, authfriend authfriend@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray27 steve.sundur@ wrote: Curtis, what you say rings true with my experience. Of course it does! Indeed - the hard on Steve gets every time he sees Curtis is pretty repulsing - at least to me. No offense to you here, Curtis - just Steve. I don't really get this Ravi. You are capable of being friendly with people here and giving them a high five if you agree. Why get so bent when Steve does it? We were both in the same group and shared many of the same experiences so it shouldn't surprise you that we often see eye to eye. Mostly he was high fiving me for contributing some sincere writing, sharing my perspective and inviting others to do the same. Did you read Xeno's reply? Some interesting stuff came out of it. I wish you would share more of your experiences with spirituality this way. I liked the concerns you brought up here - just disagree with your conclusions and how you brush off all cults, religion. Glad Judy challenged that. I suspect we have many points of agreement in our views about spiritual groups Ravi. It is a little harder because my experience is mostly localized in a group you weren't in. But many groups share a lot of similarities, especially in how the followers operate. I don't understand the need to excessively qualify everything you say as my opinion this, or my opinion that. I think that is pretty obvious. My buy in was also tremendous. My take away from the experience is at a different point on the scale than yours, but I don't think you are skewing the whole affair by any means. And furthermore this place is greatly enhanced by your participation. I know you hear this a alot and the reason is, because it's just true. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Yeah, I don't think this covers the comparison with cocaine and gambling. That goes beyond just being honest about your own POV. The reward centers of our brains do not make the value judgements about what triggers the endorphins. My point concerns the content free reward system itself. And since I spent a lot of time being fulltime I saw a lot of people whose lives were a wreck from their fixation on meditation. Later after I got out I spent time with families who had been torn apart by their kids over-involvement and inability to support themselves. So the comparisons with other activities that can incapacitate people due to an uncontrollable urge like for rounding courses is not without some basis in my experience. And these levels of exposure was what Maharishi was pushing when I was involved. It was what he wanted from his teachers. Most people who start TM never get to that level of involvement. But on the other hand most people who start TM, stop TM too. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ I think addiction is a tricky term to use. It's handy when you want to discourage people from trying TM or suggest there's something dangerous about it, because the term is usually pejorative; but then there's the whole positive addiction theory to be considered. I agree that addiction can be overused and misapplied. I believe in the case of TM it applies, but I get it that you do not. I think it can be considered a positive addiction for most of those who find it addicting at all. I believe it triggers a similar reward system at the synaptic level that drugs do. At least that is how I experience it. I have no objection to this as long as you
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
I guess you do have to look a little at the life of two of my biggest critics. Ravi's life, which is pretty well documented, and Judy's life, or lack of a life. Or at least a life no one knows anything about even after 20 years of posting. Or, I suppose this is her life. That's about the only conclusion that can be drawn. Which is mostly just a counterpoint to everything Barry writes, and Curtis and anyone else who takes a stance she finds objectionable. Which of course is fine, except so much of it falls short of anything that makes much sense. I'd make a $500.00 bet that if a trained psychologist examined her interactions, just within the last few days, that they would arrive at a similiar conclusion, or they would at least find someone who is incapable of discussing things honestly, and who also resorts to evasive tactics, and straw man arguments all in a effort to feel that she has won an argument. Any takers? The fruits of a 30 plus years of dipping into pure concioussness, sat chit ananda. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: snip So unable to say anything cogent about the content of my post, (as Judy did, even though I disagree with her opinion about it) and having been called out for your trolling personal attack behavior, you attempt one of the weirdest of the FFL moves, trying to blame me for what other people write, as if it is my job to scold people for interactions that don't involve me. Says Curtis, right after having administered a scolding for interactions that didn't involve him. To Steve: The fact that this partial agreement and appreciation for what I write is followed by a rash of taunting is one of the weirder aspects of the joint. It involved me because it was jumping on Steve for complimenting ME. He was punishing Steve for saying something nice to me. Actually I started it, not because he said something nice to you, but because he's so stupidly *predictable*. You and I were having an argument, so he sided with you against me, as he virtually always does (he'll side with almost anybody against me). In his very next post he said I wasn't making much sense, and I responded the same way. (He isn't *smart* enough to get what I was saying.) Ravi thought that was a cool way to deal with Steve's empty-headed predictability, so he picked up on it, and we had fun batting Steve around with it. And that does affect how people feel about responding positively to my posts. They know that the shit storm will descend from the usual suspects. Oh, right, what a fierce shit storm that was. BTW, it didn't bother Steve. I don't know why it would bother anybody else. Except you, of course. You had to defend Steve from being teased by Big Bad Judy and Big Bad Ravi because he had sided with you, and you don't want to risk losing his approval. Nice try little gadfly. And I am not saying I will never jump into someone else's interaction if I choose to, this is an open message board and we all do that sometimes if it interest me. I am just not buckling to outside pressure to scold certain people Jim and you don't like. I don't think anybody was pressing you to do anything, just observing what you do (or in this case don't do-- unless, of course, you need to defend one of your allies). I am not obligated to do so. Just as you are not and pick and choose our own battles from your own priority perspective. This shame angle doesn't work on me. You are immune to any kind of shame, Curtis. You've been working on that for a long time. Unfortunately it doesn't stop others from commenting on what they consider shameful. Did you really think you were gunna make this fly after seeing Robin relentlessly try and fail the same thing? Robin wasn't the only one to call you out on your hypocrisy. Right, if I don't scold people you think I should scold, then I am a hypocrite and should never scold anyone that I choose to. The I am king baby routine isn't gunna work Judy. King Baby is Bob Price's and Ravi's name for Barry, not you. I don't know why you're invoking it in this context, particularly in the first person as if you were *quoting* Barry. All discussions with you end up here don't they? You are boringly predictable. A little hammer looking for a nail. I didn't bring it up. I just noted your hypocrisy when you dumped on DrD for mentioning it. So you got your name calling buzz on today. What a contribution. Hey did you think that comparing me not scolding people Jim doesn't like here on FFL to the German's attitude before the Holocaust was cool? Did you jump
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
Thank you dear Em, yes courtesies, protocol - yeah you can do this Ravi, you can totally do this, yeah keep her away from ever google searching your name and away from FFL - whew. Anyway translation of the main line of the song - Will love, will get hurt, but will never tired of the habit (of loving) On Mar 10, 2013, at 3:54 PM, Emily Reyn emilymae.r...@yahoo.com wrote: God, Ravi, you crack me up. I needed a good laugh. Yes, remember to observe basic courtesies and don't show her FFL. :) From: Ravi Chivukula chivukula.r...@gmail.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2013 3:40 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment. http://youtu.be/eCmrrO3do5k On Mar 10, 2013, at 3:30 PM, Ravi Chivukula chivukula.r...@gmail.com wrote: You are right, I don't say this often enough but I love you dear Curtis. My mind is fantasizing on a woman - she seems to have all the qualities I would want my partner to. I can't screw this by getting too playful and blissy - you hear me? On Mar 10, 2013, at 7:56 AM, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltabl...@yahoo.com wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula chivukula.ravi@... wrote: On Mar 9, 2013, at 8:21 PM, authfriend authfriend@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray27 steve.sundur@ wrote: Curtis, what you say rings true with my experience. Of course it does! Indeed - the hard on Steve gets every time he sees Curtis is pretty repulsing - at least to me. No offense to you here, Curtis - just Steve. I don't really get this Ravi. You are capable of being friendly with people here and giving them a high five if you agree. Why get so bent when Steve does it? We were both in the same group and shared many of the same experiences so it shouldn't surprise you that we often see eye to eye. Mostly he was high fiving me for contributing some sincere writing, sharing my perspective and inviting others to do the same. Did you read Xeno's reply? Some interesting stuff came out of it. I wish you would share more of your experiences with spirituality this way. I liked the concerns you brought up here - just disagree with your conclusions and how you brush off all cults, religion. Glad Judy challenged that. I suspect we have many points of agreement in our views about spiritual groups Ravi. It is a little harder because my experience is mostly localized in a group you weren't in. But many groups share a lot of similarities, especially in how the followers operate. I don't understand the need to excessively qualify everything you say as my opinion this, or my opinion that. I think that is pretty obvious. My buy in was also tremendous. My take away from the experience is at a different point on the scale than yours, but I don't think you are skewing the whole affair by any means. And furthermore this place is greatly enhanced by your participation. I know you hear this a alot and the reason is, because it's just true. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Yeah, I don't think this covers the comparison with cocaine and gambling. That goes beyond just being honest about your own POV. The reward centers of our brains do not make the value judgements about what triggers the endorphins. My point concerns the content free reward system itself. And since I spent a lot of time being fulltime I saw a lot of people whose lives were a wreck from their fixation on meditation. Later after I got out I spent time with families who had been torn apart by their kids over-involvement and inability to support themselves. So the comparisons with other activities that can incapacitate people due to an uncontrollable urge like for rounding courses is not without some basis in my experience. And these levels of exposure was what Maharishi was pushing when I was involved. It was what he wanted from his teachers. Most people who start TM never get to that level of involvement. But on the other hand most people who start TM, stop TM too. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ I think addiction is a tricky term to use. It's handy when you want to discourage people from trying TM or suggest there's something dangerous about it, because the term is usually pejorative; but then there's the whole positive addiction theory to be
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Well, including TM for those privy to the secret teachings, but not including TM for the ordinary TMer, who, in my experience, was told most emphatically that the value of TM was one's experience in activity, not one's experience during meditation. You are mixing up two very distinct levels of the teaching here. One is the instruction to meditators not to try to manipulate their practice during the practice by preferring any experience over another during the practice, or worrying about it afterwards. Oh, that's funny, Curtis. No, I wasn't even thinking of this. But the fact that our practice has experiential goals, especially after you have been doing it for a while and in an advanced group context is pretty obvious. Of course the practice has experiential goals. They're obvious from the start; they're why people take up TM in the first place: During the TM technique, the mind settles down effortlessly, experiencing quieter and quieter levels of thought. From time to time, the mind transcendsor goes beyondthought to the state of pure consciousness. As you continue to meditate 20 minutes twice a day, the qualities of that stateserenity, steadiness, harmonypermeate your life. Research indicates that the practice of the TM technique increases calmness and decreases stress. http://www.tm.org/inner-peace The Transcendental Meditation (TM) technique provides access to the profound silence of the inner Self that is deep inside everyone. With regular meditation, the peacefulness and bliss of that inner experience is naturally integrated into daily living leading to an enlightened life with a fully developed heart, mind and soul. http://www.tm.org/enlightenment And of course better health, decreased anxiety, greater productivity, improved relationships, etc., etc., etc. All goals that have to do with experience in activity, not just during meditation. Once again you have sifted the discussion level inappropriately to the brochure level: how how TM is sold to the public. I would say that this tendency has plagued our discussions from the very first days of our interaction. I bring up a point from the perspective of an insider, and you try to show how it is different from what is shown on the brochures. Oh, jeez, Curtis. One of your biggest problems is that it doesn't occur to you that you're going to be called on it when you try to distort a discussion and shift the context to one you're more comfortable dealing with. When you cite insider teachings as if they're what everyone who learns TM is taught, as you did in this case, you're durn tootin' I'm going to point out what you're doing, especially if you're addressing your remarks to a non-TMer. What I quoted from the Web site about the goals of TM is what I was *always* taught, not just at the beginning. The goal of Maharishi's programs was a state of consciousness. He sold it to the West in a form he thought they could relate to: benefits in activity. What activity enhancement do you think Tat Walla Baba was expressing sitting in his cave? It was his state of consciousness that Maharishi admired and it was developing this state of consciousness in us that was his goal. As I've said a couple of times now, that may have been what he secretly taught to insiders, but for rank-and- file non-teacher TMers (as you know), the goal was to develop this state of consciousness and live our active householder lives in it--not go sit in a cave. Do you mean you were never on a course where you rated your experiences with A, B and C for how clear your transcending was and how much time you spent there? Actually, no, I wasn't. Went on lots of courses, too. (Last WPA I was on was sometime in 1995, so it's been awhile.) Well then you really don't have the experiential basis to criticize what I wrote. Complete non sequitur. I didn't criticize what you said about what your experience was. More attempted context- shifting. Are you unclear that the goals of Maharishi's meditaiton are clear transcending, witnessing transcending, witnessing the celestial level, realizing that what you are experiencing as outside you is actually the same unboundeness as your own Self, having that thread of unity woven into the cloth of Brahaman as even those things not directly perceived are enveloped by your Self...it goes on. I'm very clear that what *I* was taught was that the goal of Maharishi's meditation was enlightenment, not the neat experiences one may have while practicing it as
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emilymae.reyn emilymae.reyn@... wrote: And, Emily is not concerned about Judy not being concerned about how she views her, nor is she concerned about how Judy views her, or anyone else on FFL, for that matter. She's given up on being ashamed of herself, except when she is. Emily originally posed her question in a brief exchange with Share, predicting accurately that Share would back out of the conversation for many good reasons that she chose not to be concerned with at all, but hoping that someone on this public forum would take pity on her ignorance and weigh in, because she was curious and because she is doing some introspection right now on her life and how she deals with it. Emily was most impressed and interested in the responses and appreciative that there were responses. Emily doesn't understand many things that cross this forum, like how DST is related to digestion, for one. But, no matter, she paid no attention to it at all and was glad to be reminded to change the clocks! Good move there Emily (on not paying attention, that is). DST is a bonus for me and the cause of indigestion, obesity and heart attacks in others. An amazing world we live in when a mere change of the clocks by one hour means misery for some and for me it means: Not having to rush home from work every day early in order to pick my paddocks, feed and hay the horses because there is no light. Being able to choose if I want to ride in the morning or the evening depending upon weather and circumstances, and being able to do so in the light whether I choose the am or the pm. Enjoying the evenings outside where there is natural light. Finding my electric bill about one third less each month. You get the idea. In other words, I LOVE daylight saving and wish they didn't 'fall back' in the autumn. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: snip So unable to say anything cogent about the content of my post, (as Judy did, even though I disagree with her opinion about it) and having been called out for your trolling personal attack behavior, you attempt one of the weirdest of the FFL moves, trying to blame me for what other people write, as if it is my job to scold people for interactions that don't involve me. Says Curtis, right after having administered a scolding for interactions that didn't involve him. To Steve: The fact that this partial agreement and appreciation for what I write is followed by a rash of taunting is one of the weirder aspects of the joint. It involved me because it was jumping on Steve for complimenting ME. He was punishing Steve for saying something nice to me. Actually I started it, not because he said something nice to you, but because he's so stupidly *predictable*. You and I were having an argument, so he sided with you against me, as he virtually always does (he'll side with almost anybody against me). In his very next post he said I wasn't making much sense, and I responded the same way. (He isn't *smart* enough to get what I was saying.) Ravi thought that was a cool way to deal with Steve's empty-headed predictability, so he picked up on it, and we had fun batting Steve around with it. And that does affect how people feel about responding positively to my posts. They know that the shit storm will descend from the usual suspects. Oh, right, what a fierce shit storm that was. BTW, it didn't bother Steve. I don't know why it would bother anybody else. Except you, of course. You had to defend Steve from being teased by Big Bad Judy and Big Bad Ravi because he had sided with you, and you don't want to risk losing his approval. Nice try little gadfly. And I am not saying I will never jump into someone else's interaction if I choose to, this is an open message board and we all do that sometimes if it interest me. I am just not buckling to outside pressure to scold certain people Jim and you don't like. I don't think anybody was pressing you to do anything, just observing what you do (or in this case don't do-- unless, of course, you need to defend one of your allies). I am not obligated to do so. Just as you are not and pick and choose our own battles from your own priority perspective. This shame angle doesn't work on me. You are immune to any kind of shame, Curtis. You've been working on that for a long time. Unfortunately it doesn't stop others from commenting on what they consider shameful. Did you really think you
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray27 steve.sundur@... wrote: I guess you do have to look a little at the life of two of my biggest critics. Ravi's life, which is pretty well documented, and Judy's life, or lack of a life. Or at least a life no one knows anything about even after 20 years of posting. Or, I suppose this is her life. That's about the only conclusion that can be drawn. Which is mostly just a counterpoint to everything Barry writes, and Curtis and anyone else who takes a stance she finds objectionable. Which of course is fine, except so much of it falls short of anything that makes much sense. I'd make a $500.00 bet that if a trained psychologist examined her interactions, just within the last few days, that they would arrive at a similiar conclusion, or they would at least find someone who is incapable of discussing things honestly, and who also resorts to evasive tactics, and straw man arguments all in a effort to feel that she has won an argument. Any takers? No 'taker' here but I will give something. I actually take umbrage at your assertion about Judy's honesty. I personally don't think she has a dishonest molecule in her body. In fact, I would go so far as to says she can't help but tell the truth, as she sees it and at the risk of seriously pissing everyone off. I do not believe Judy is about distracting her reader from what is the closest to the truth of a thing, as she sees it from her level. She is inexhaustible in her research and in the pursuit of 'getting it right'; she obviously has a mind that ranks right up there, as far as lucid, raw intelligence goes, as high as anybody who has ever posted here. (I know who is rolling their eyes right now, so don't think I don't.) Her style, her fighting instinct, her doggedness does not endear her to everyone. Fair enough. You don't have to like someone to appreciate their innate insistence on accuracy, on this kind of purity of defining things. She is, to me, very like a human barometer or other finely-tuned instrument that can't go against this nature of hers to give one an accurate reading. She can admit when she is wrong. She isn't easy at times, in fact she can be bloody ruthless. But I love that, in its proper time, in its proper context. The thing is, I don't believe Judy writes/asserts anything she does not truly believe - even at the risk of being wrong. If that is not honesty, then I don't know what is. The fruits of a 30 plus years of dipping into pure concioussness, sat chit ananda. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: snip So unable to say anything cogent about the content of my post, (as Judy did, even though I disagree with her opinion about it) and having been called out for your trolling personal attack behavior, you attempt one of the weirdest of the FFL moves, trying to blame me for what other people write, as if it is my job to scold people for interactions that don't involve me. Says Curtis, right after having administered a scolding for interactions that didn't involve him. To Steve: The fact that this partial agreement and appreciation for what I write is followed by a rash of taunting is one of the weirder aspects of the joint. It involved me because it was jumping on Steve for complimenting ME. He was punishing Steve for saying something nice to me. Actually I started it, not because he said something nice to you, but because he's so stupidly *predictable*. You and I were having an argument, so he sided with you against me, as he virtually always does (he'll side with almost anybody against me). In his very next post he said I wasn't making much sense, and I responded the same way. (He isn't *smart* enough to get what I was saying.) Ravi thought that was a cool way to deal with Steve's empty-headed predictability, so he picked up on it, and we had fun batting Steve around with it. And that does affect how people feel about responding positively to my posts. They know that the shit storm will descend from the usual suspects. Oh, right, what a fierce shit storm that was. BTW, it didn't bother Steve. I don't know why it would bother anybody else. Except you, of course. You had to defend Steve from being teased by Big Bad Judy and Big Bad Ravi because he had sided with you, and you don't want to risk losing his approval. Nice try little gadfly. And I am not saying I will never jump into someone else's interaction if I choose to, this is an open message board and we all do that sometimes if it interest me.
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
Thank you, Ann, appreciate the kudos. Steve has a problem. He knows I don't think very highly of him--I've made that pretty clear--and he feels he needs to get back at me, but he doesn't have the chops to come up with legitimate criticisms that actually apply to me. So he just makes stuff up, like Barry, only Steve isn't nearly as creative. Any old insult is fine; it doesn't have to be accurate as long as he feels he's gotten his rocks off. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann awoelflebater@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray27 steve.sundur@ wrote: I guess you do have to look a little at the life of two of my biggest critics. Ravi's life, which is pretty well documented, and Judy's life, or lack of a life. Or at least a life no one knows anything about even after 20 years of posting. Or, I suppose this is her life. That's about the only conclusion that can be drawn. Which is mostly just a counterpoint to everything Barry writes, and Curtis and anyone else who takes a stance she finds objectionable. Which of course is fine, except so much of it falls short of anything that makes much sense. I'd make a $500.00 bet that if a trained psychologist examined her interactions, just within the last few days, that they would arrive at a similiar conclusion, or they would at least find someone who is incapable of discussing things honestly, and who also resorts to evasive tactics, and straw man arguments all in a effort to feel that she has won an argument. Any takers? No 'taker' here but I will give something. I actually take umbrage at your assertion about Judy's honesty. I personally don't think she has a dishonest molecule in her body. In fact, I would go so far as to says she can't help but tell the truth, as she sees it and at the risk of seriously pissing everyone off. I do not believe Judy is about distracting her reader from what is the closest to the truth of a thing, as she sees it from her level. She is inexhaustible in her research and in the pursuit of 'getting it right'; she obviously has a mind that ranks right up there, as far as lucid, raw intelligence goes, as high as anybody who has ever posted here. (I know who is rolling their eyes right now, so don't think I don't.) Her style, her fighting instinct, her doggedness does not endear her to everyone. Fair enough. You don't have to like someone to appreciate their innate insistence on accuracy, on this kind of purity of defining things. She is, to me, very like a human barometer or other finely-tuned instrument that can't go against this nature of hers to give one an accurate reading. She can admit when she is wrong. She isn't easy at times, in fact she can be bloody ruthless. But I love that, in its proper time, in its proper context. The thing is, I don't believe Judy writes/asserts anything she does not truly believe - even at the risk of being wrong. If that is not honesty, then I don't know what is. The fruits of a 30 plus years of dipping into pure concioussness, sat chit ananda. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: snip So unable to say anything cogent about the content of my post, (as Judy did, even though I disagree with her opinion about it) and having been called out for your trolling personal attack behavior, you attempt one of the weirdest of the FFL moves, trying to blame me for what other people write, as if it is my job to scold people for interactions that don't involve me. Says Curtis, right after having administered a scolding for interactions that didn't involve him. To Steve: The fact that this partial agreement and appreciation for what I write is followed by a rash of taunting is one of the weirder aspects of the joint. It involved me because it was jumping on Steve for complimenting ME. He was punishing Steve for saying something nice to me. Actually I started it, not because he said something nice to you, but because he's so stupidly *predictable*. You and I were having an argument, so he sided with you against me, as he virtually always does (he'll side with almost anybody against me). In his very next post he said I wasn't making much sense, and I responded the same way. (He isn't *smart* enough to get what I was saying.) Ravi thought that was a cool way to deal with Steve's empty-headed predictability, so he picked up on it, and we had fun batting Steve around with it. And that does affect how people feel about
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
Any takers? Yes - Steve, you can't even notice the contradictions in what you write. FFL is a place for discussion, so Judy doesn't have to reveal anything about herself - it's like you hilariously accused her of - a straw man argument. You are the one indulging in unfair, evasive tactics in attacking her. I reveal details about my personal life because I'm more of an entertainer and I want my audience to endear itself to me - if you are going to make me into some kind of ridiculous model here I would be the only one posting here perhaps and may be Emily..LOL - we don't want that do we? On Sun, Mar 10, 2013 at 4:07 PM, seventhray27 steve.sun...@yahoo.comwrote: ** I guess you do have to look a little at the life of two of my biggest critics. Ravi's life, which is pretty well documented, and Judy's life, or lack of a life. Or at least a life no one knows anything about even after 20 years of posting. Or, I suppose this is her life. That's about the only conclusion that can be drawn. Which is mostly just a counterpoint to everything Barry writes, and Curtis and anyone else who takes a stance she finds objectionable. Which of course is fine, except so much of it falls short of anything that makes much sense. I'd make a $500.00 bet that if a trained psychologist examined her interactions, just within the last few days, that they would arrive at a similiar conclusion, or they would at least find someone who is incapable of discussing things honestly, and who also resorts to evasive tactics, and straw man arguments all in a effort to feel that she has won an argument. Any takers? The fruits of a 30 plus years of dipping into pure concioussness, sat chit ananda. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: snip So unable to say anything cogent about the content of my post, (as Judy did, even though I disagree with her opinion about it) and having been called out for your trolling personal attack behavior, you attempt one of the weirdest of the FFL moves, trying to blame me for what other people write, as if it is my job to scold people for interactions that don't involve me. Says Curtis, right after having administered a scolding for interactions that didn't involve him. To Steve: The fact that this partial agreement and appreciation for what I write is followed by a rash of taunting is one of the weirder aspects of the joint. It involved me because it was jumping on Steve for complimenting ME. He was punishing Steve for saying something nice to me. Actually I started it, not because he said something nice to you, but because he's so stupidly *predictable*. You and I were having an argument, so he sided with you against me, as he virtually always does (he'll side with almost anybody against me). In his very next post he said I wasn't making much sense, and I responded the same way. (He isn't *smart* enough to get what I was saying.) Ravi thought that was a cool way to deal with Steve's empty-headed predictability, so he picked up on it, and we had fun batting Steve around with it. And that does affect how people feel about responding positively to my posts. They know that the shit storm will descend from the usual suspects. Oh, right, what a fierce shit storm that was. BTW, it didn't bother Steve. I don't know why it would bother anybody else. Except you, of course. You had to defend Steve from being teased by Big Bad Judy and Big Bad Ravi because he had sided with you, and you don't want to risk losing his approval. Nice try little gadfly. And I am not saying I will never jump into someone else's interaction if I choose to, this is an open message board and we all do that sometimes if it interest me. I am just not buckling to outside pressure to scold certain people Jim and you don't like. I don't think anybody was pressing you to do anything, just observing what you do (or in this case don't do-- unless, of course, you need to defend one of your allies). I am not obligated to do so. Just as you are not and pick and choose our own battles from your own priority perspective. This shame angle doesn't work on me. You are immune to any kind of shame, Curtis. You've been working on that for a long time. Unfortunately it doesn't stop others from commenting on what they consider shameful. Did you really think you were gunna make this fly after seeing Robin relentlessly try and fail the same thing? Robin wasn't the only one to call you out on your hypocrisy. Right, if I don't scold people you
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann awoelflebater@... wrote: No 'taker' here but I will give something. I actually take umbrage at your assertion about Judy's honesty. I personally don't think she has a dishonest molecule in her body. In fact, I would go so far as to says she can't help but tell the truth, as she sees it and at the risk of seriously pissing everyone off. I do not believe Judy is about distracting her reader from what is the closest to the truth of a thing, as she sees it from her level. snip Ann, More credit to you, if you can follow her arguments. I find that they often become convoluted beyond any sensible conclusion. And I suspect that you, like most of us, don't bother to read past the first couple of rebuttals she makes, especially after the third of fourth iteration. I would say, that if anyone wants to find a flaw in another person's reasoning, they can do so. There is always some technical point that can be disputed. But, by that point the spirit of the argument, or discussion is lost, and the object becomes simply finding a way to win. Or maybe you decide to frame your argument in parameters that you alone determine as valid and win on that basis. Oh, and the sin of snipping. That can always be grounds for immediate dismissal of any points. Because snipping in Judy's book is to hide something, and not for conciseness. (unless she does it) And yes, she does have time, have time, have time for nearly unlimited research, (which we must remember is research when she does it, but internet stalking when done by someone else) So, all of this, for me, disputes any notion of honesty on Judy's part. But I certainly understand the attraction of having someone like Judy on your team. She can disparage with best of them. But, I suspect that she would remain a better friend, or ally at a distance. And is it fair to bring up, that there must come a time, when we think about what legacy we might leave behind. I think that comes into play at some point. She is inexhaustible in her research and in the pursuit of 'getting it right'; she obviously has a mind that ranks right up there, as far as lucid, raw intelligence goes, as high as anybody who has ever posted here. (I know who is rolling their eyes right now, so don't think I don't.) Her style, her fighting instinct, her doggedness does not endear her to everyone. Fair enough. You don't have to like someone to appreciate their innate insistence on accuracy, on this kind of purity of defining things. She is, to me, very like a human barometer or other finely-tuned instrument that can't go against this nature of hers to give one an accurate reading. She can admit when she is wrong. She isn't easy at times, in fact she can be bloody ruthless. But I love that, in its proper time, in its proper context. The thing is, I don't believe Judy writes/asserts anything she does not truly believe - even at the risk of being wrong. If that is not honesty, then I don't know what is.
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
Thank you Judy, for your usual kind words. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@... wrote: Thank you, Ann, appreciate the kudos. Steve has a problem. He knows I don't think very highly of him--I've made that pretty clear--and he feels he needs to get back at me, but he doesn't have the chops to come up with legitimate criticisms that actually apply to me. So he just makes stuff up, like Barry, only Steve isn't nearly as creative. Any old insult is fine; it doesn't have to be accurate as long as he feels he's gotten his rocks off. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann awoelflebater@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray27 steve.sundur@ wrote: I guess you do have to look a little at the life of two of my biggest critics. Ravi's life, which is pretty well documented, and Judy's life, or lack of a life. Or at least a life no one knows anything about even after 20 years of posting. Or, I suppose this is her life. That's about the only conclusion that can be drawn. Which is mostly just a counterpoint to everything Barry writes, and Curtis and anyone else who takes a stance she finds objectionable. Which of course is fine, except so much of it falls short of anything that makes much sense. I'd make a $500.00 bet that if a trained psychologist examined her interactions, just within the last few days, that they would arrive at a similiar conclusion, or they would at least find someone who is incapable of discussing things honestly, and who also resorts to evasive tactics, and straw man arguments all in a effort to feel that she has won an argument. Any takers? No 'taker' here but I will give something. I actually take umbrage at your assertion about Judy's honesty. I personally don't think she has a dishonest molecule in her body. In fact, I would go so far as to says she can't help but tell the truth, as she sees it and at the risk of seriously pissing everyone off. I do not believe Judy is about distracting her reader from what is the closest to the truth of a thing, as she sees it from her level. She is inexhaustible in her research and in the pursuit of 'getting it right'; she obviously has a mind that ranks right up there, as far as lucid, raw intelligence goes, as high as anybody who has ever posted here. (I know who is rolling their eyes right now, so don't think I don't.) Her style, her fighting instinct, her doggedness does not endear her to everyone. Fair enough. You don't have to like someone to appreciate their innate insistence on accuracy, on this kind of purity of defining things. She is, to me, very like a human barometer or other finely-tuned instrument that can't go against this nature of hers to give one an accurate reading. She can admit when she is wrong. She isn't easy at times, in fact she can be bloody ruthless. But I love that, in its proper time, in its proper context. The thing is, I don't believe Judy writes/asserts anything she does not truly believe - even at the risk of being wrong. If that is not honesty, then I don't know what is. The fruits of a 30 plus years of dipping into pure concioussness, sat chit ananda. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: snip So unable to say anything cogent about the content of my post, (as Judy did, even though I disagree with her opinion about it) and having been called out for your trolling personal attack behavior, you attempt one of the weirdest of the FFL moves, trying to blame me for what other people write, as if it is my job to scold people for interactions that don't involve me. Says Curtis, right after having administered a scolding for interactions that didn't involve him. To Steve: The fact that this partial agreement and appreciation for what I write is followed by a rash of taunting is one of the weirder aspects of the joint. It involved me because it was jumping on Steve for complimenting ME. He was punishing Steve for saying something nice to me. Actually I started it, not because he said something nice to you, but because he's so stupidly *predictable*. You and I were having an argument, so he sided with you against me, as he virtually always does (he'll side with almost anybody against me). In his very next post he said I wasn't making much sense, and I responded the same way. (He isn't *smart* enough to get what I was saying.) Ravi thought that was a cool way to deal with Steve's
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
Ravi, your opinion always trumps. So, discussions with you generally degenerate into one of your usual tirades. I don't care to degrade you, but if you are going to make accusations by constantly calling people idiots or morons, I would be glad to play that game with you. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula chivukula.ravi@... wrote: Any takers? Yes - Steve, you can't even notice the contradictions in what you write. FFL is a place for discussion, so Judy doesn't have to reveal anything about herself - it's like you hilariously accused her of - a straw man argument. You are the one indulging in unfair, evasive tactics in attacking her. I reveal details about my personal life because I'm more of an entertainer and I want my audience to endear itself to me - if you are going to make me into some kind of ridiculous model here I would be the only one posting here perhaps and may be Emily..LOL - we don't want that do we? On Sun, Mar 10, 2013 at 4:07 PM, seventhray27 steve.sundur@...wrote: ** I guess you do have to look a little at the life of two of my biggest critics. Ravi's life, which is pretty well documented, and Judy's life, or lack of a life. Or at least a life no one knows anything about even after 20 years of posting. Or, I suppose this is her life. That's about the only conclusion that can be drawn. Which is mostly just a counterpoint to everything Barry writes, and Curtis and anyone else who takes a stance she finds objectionable. Which of course is fine, except so much of it falls short of anything that makes much sense. I'd make a $500.00 bet that if a trained psychologist examined her interactions, just within the last few days, that they would arrive at a similiar conclusion, or they would at least find someone who is incapable of discussing things honestly, and who also resorts to evasive tactics, and straw man arguments all in a effort to feel that she has won an argument. Any takers? The fruits of a 30 plus years of dipping into pure concioussness, sat chit ananda. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: snip So unable to say anything cogent about the content of my post, (as Judy did, even though I disagree with her opinion about it) and having been called out for your trolling personal attack behavior, you attempt one of the weirdest of the FFL moves, trying to blame me for what other people write, as if it is my job to scold people for interactions that don't involve me. Says Curtis, right after having administered a scolding for interactions that didn't involve him. To Steve: The fact that this partial agreement and appreciation for what I write is followed by a rash of taunting is one of the weirder aspects of the joint. It involved me because it was jumping on Steve for complimenting ME. He was punishing Steve for saying something nice to me. Actually I started it, not because he said something nice to you, but because he's so stupidly *predictable*. You and I were having an argument, so he sided with you against me, as he virtually always does (he'll side with almost anybody against me). In his very next post he said I wasn't making much sense, and I responded the same way. (He isn't *smart* enough to get what I was saying.) Ravi thought that was a cool way to deal with Steve's empty-headed predictability, so he picked up on it, and we had fun batting Steve around with it. And that does affect how people feel about responding positively to my posts. They know that the shit storm will descend from the usual suspects. Oh, right, what a fierce shit storm that was. BTW, it didn't bother Steve. I don't know why it would bother anybody else. Except you, of course. You had to defend Steve from being teased by Big Bad Judy and Big Bad Ravi because he had sided with you, and you don't want to risk losing his approval. Nice try little gadfly. And I am not saying I will never jump into someone else's interaction if I choose to, this is an open message board and we all do that sometimes if it interest me. I am just not buckling to outside pressure to scold certain people Jim and you don't like. I don't think anybody was pressing you to do anything, just observing what you do (or in this case don't do-- unless, of course, you need to defend one of your allies). I am not obligated to do so. Just as you are not and pick and choose our own battles from your own priority perspective.
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
better word below: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray27 steve.sundur@... wrote: Ravi, your opinion always trumps. So, discussions with you generally degenerate into one of your usual tirades. I don't care to disparage you, but if you are going to make accusations by constantly calling people idiots or morons, I would be glad to play that game with you. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula chivukula.ravi@ wrote: Any takers? Yes - Steve, you can't even notice the contradictions in what you write. FFL is a place for discussion, so Judy doesn't have to reveal anything about herself - it's like you hilariously accused her of - a straw man argument. You are the one indulging in unfair, evasive tactics in attacking her. I reveal details about my personal life because I'm more of an entertainer and I want my audience to endear itself to me - if you are going to make me into some kind of ridiculous model here I would be the only one posting here perhaps and may be Emily..LOL - we don't want that do we? On Sun, Mar 10, 2013 at 4:07 PM, seventhray27 steve.sundur@...: ** I guess you do have to look a little at the life of two of my biggest critics. Ravi's life, which is pretty well documented, and Judy's life, or lack of a life. Or at least a life no one knows anything about even after 20 years of posting. Or, I suppose this is her life. That's about the only conclusion that can be drawn. Which is mostly just a counterpoint to everything Barry writes, and Curtis and anyone else who takes a stance she finds objectionable. Which of course is fine, except so much of it falls short of anything that makes much sense. I'd make a $500.00 bet that if a trained psychologist examined her interactions, just within the last few days, that they would arrive at a similiar conclusion, or they would at least find someone who is incapable of discussing things honestly, and who also resorts to evasive tactics, and straw man arguments all in a effort to feel that she has won an argument. Any takers? The fruits of a 30 plus years of dipping into pure concioussness, sat chit ananda. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: snip So unable to say anything cogent about the content of my post, (as Judy did, even though I disagree with her opinion about it) and having been called out for your trolling personal attack behavior, you attempt one of the weirdest of the FFL moves, trying to blame me for what other people write, as if it is my job to scold people for interactions that don't involve me. Says Curtis, right after having administered a scolding for interactions that didn't involve him. To Steve: The fact that this partial agreement and appreciation for what I write is followed by a rash of taunting is one of the weirder aspects of the joint. It involved me because it was jumping on Steve for complimenting ME. He was punishing Steve for saying something nice to me. Actually I started it, not because he said something nice to you, but because he's so stupidly *predictable*. You and I were having an argument, so he sided with you against me, as he virtually always does (he'll side with almost anybody against me). In his very next post he said I wasn't making much sense, and I responded the same way. (He isn't *smart* enough to get what I was saying.) Ravi thought that was a cool way to deal with Steve's empty-headed predictability, so he picked up on it, and we had fun batting Steve around with it. And that does affect how people feel about responding positively to my posts. They know that the shit storm will descend from the usual suspects. Oh, right, what a fierce shit storm that was. BTW, it didn't bother Steve. I don't know why it would bother anybody else. Except you, of course. You had to defend Steve from being teased by Big Bad Judy and Big Bad Ravi because he had sided with you, and you don't want to risk losing his approval. Nice try little gadfly. And I am not saying I will never jump into someone else's interaction if I choose to, this is an open message board and we all do that sometimes if it interest me. I am just not buckling to outside pressure to scold certain people Jim and you don't like. I don't think anybody was pressing you to do anything, just observing what you do (or
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray27 steve.sundur@... wrote: snip Oh, and the sin of snipping. That can always be grounds for immediate dismissal of any points. Because snipping in Judy's book is to hide something, and not for conciseness. (unless she does it) And yes, she does have time, have time, have time for nearly unlimited research, (which we must remember is research when she does it, but internet stalking when done by someone else) So, all of this, for me, disputes any notion of honesty on Judy's part. Except for the fact that what you say above about snipping and research is not true, and you know it's not true. Lying about a person isn't a very good way to make a case for their being dishonest, now, is it?
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula chivukula.ravi@... wrote: Yes - Steve, you can't even notice the contradictions in what you write. FFL is a place for discussion, so Judy doesn't have to reveal anything about herself - it's like you hilariously accused her of - a straw man argument. Not only that, it's not true that I haven't revealed anything about myself, as I pointed out to him awhile back when he made the same nitwit accusation. As I told Ann, he doesn't have any legitimate complaints, so he just makes 'em up. And then calls me dishonest.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
I would be glad to play that game with you. OK..ready,set, GO !!! Aw forget it - when I insult someone it almost always sticks but never the other way around - I was an arrogant SOB from the day I was born. But one can always try disparaging me..LOL. You are so much poorer in understanding me if you label it as a tirade or an accusation, poorer in judging me based on what I do. Well you are fucking clueless Steve - but I still love you. On Sun, Mar 10, 2013 at 8:35 PM, seventhray27 steve.sun...@yahoo.comwrote: ** better word below: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray27 steve.sundur@... wrote: Ravi, your opinion always trumps. So, discussions with you generally degenerate into one of your usual tirades. I don't care to *disparage* you, but if you are going to make accusations by constantly calling people idiots or morons, I would be glad to play that game with you. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula chivukula.ravi@ wrote: Any takers? Yes - Steve, you can't even notice the contradictions in what you write. FFL is a place for discussion, so Judy doesn't have to reveal anything about herself - it's like you hilariously accused her of - a straw man argument. You are the one indulging in unfair, evasive tactics in attacking her. I reveal details about my personal life because I'm more of an entertainer and I want my audience to endear itself to me - if you are going to make me into some kind of ridiculous model here I would be the only one posting here perhaps and may be Emily..LOL - we don't want that do we? On Sun, Mar 10, 2013 at 4:07 PM, seventhray27 steve.sundur@...: ** I guess you do have to look a little at the life of two of my biggest critics. Ravi's life, which is pretty well documented, and Judy's life, or lack of a life. Or at least a life no one knows anything about even after 20 years of posting. Or, I suppose this is her life. That's about the only conclusion that can be drawn. Which is mostly just a counterpoint to everything Barry writes, and Curtis and anyone else who takes a stance she finds objectionable. Which of course is fine, except so much of it falls short of anything that makes much sense. I'd make a $500.00 bet that if a trained psychologist examined her interactions, just within the last few days, that they would arrive at a similiar conclusion, or they would at least find someone who is incapable of discussing things honestly, and who also resorts to evasive tactics, and straw man arguments all in a effort to feel that she has won an argument. Any takers? The fruits of a 30 plus years of dipping into pure concioussness, sat chit ananda. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: snip So unable to say anything cogent about the content of my post, (as Judy did, even though I disagree with her opinion about it) and having been called out for your trolling personal attack behavior, you attempt one of the weirdest of the FFL moves, trying to blame me for what other people write, as if it is my job to scold people for interactions that don't involve me. Says Curtis, right after having administered a scolding for interactions that didn't involve him. To Steve: The fact that this partial agreement and appreciation for what I write is followed by a rash of taunting is one of the weirder aspects of the joint. It involved me because it was jumping on Steve for complimenting ME. He was punishing Steve for saying something nice to me. Actually I started it, not because he said something nice to you, but because he's so stupidly *predictable*. You and I were having an argument, so he sided with you against me, as he virtually always does (he'll side with almost anybody against me). In his very next post he said I wasn't making much sense, and I responded the same way. (He isn't *smart* enough to get what I was saying.) Ravi thought that was a cool way to deal with Steve's empty-headed predictability, so he picked up on it, and we had fun batting Steve around with it. And that does affect how people feel about responding positively to my posts. They know that the shit storm will descend from the usual suspects. Oh, right, what a fierce shit storm that was. BTW, it didn't bother Steve. I
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
OK then Ravi boy - you are meeting her for coffee tomorrow morning. Don't fuck this up - she is not a member of your captive audience that is to be used for your playful, narcissistic indulgences nor is she one of the potential men that need to be taunted, provoked and confronted. You are there to love, to support, on a journey, self-exploration, self-discovery if you will. You are not to dictate and/or project some bullshit mystically deceived fantasy but to let love, destiny, reality lead, dictate - peace out. On Sun, Mar 10, 2013 at 4:24 PM, Ravi Chivukula chivukula.r...@gmail.comwrote: Thank you dear Em, yes courtesies, protocol - yeah you can do this Ravi, you can totally do this, yeah keep her away from ever google searching your name and away from FFL - whew. Anyway translation of the main line of the song - Will love, will get hurt, but will never tired of the habit (of loving) On Mar 10, 2013, at 3:54 PM, Emily Reyn emilymae.r...@yahoo.com wrote: God, Ravi, you crack me up. I needed a good laugh. Yes, remember to observe basic courtesies and don't show her FFL. :) -- *From:* Ravi Chivukula chivukula.r...@gmail.com *To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Sunday, March 10, 2013 3:40 PM *Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment. http://youtu.be/eCmrrO3do5k On Mar 10, 2013, at 3:30 PM, Ravi Chivukula chivukula.r...@gmail.com wrote: You are right, I don't say this often enough but I love you dear Curtis. My mind is fantasizing on a woman - she seems to have all the qualities I would want my partner to. I can't screw this by getting too playful and blissy - you hear me? On Mar 10, 2013, at 7:56 AM, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltabl...@yahoo.com wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula chivukula.ravi@... wrote: On Mar 9, 2013, at 8:21 PM, authfriend authfriend@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray27 steve.sundur@ wrote: Curtis, what you say rings true with my experience. Of course it does! Indeed - the hard on Steve gets every time he sees Curtis is pretty repulsing - at least to me. No offense to you here, Curtis - just Steve. I don't really get this Ravi. You are capable of being friendly with people here and giving them a high five if you agree. Why get so bent when Steve does it? We were both in the same group and shared many of the same experiences so it shouldn't surprise you that we often see eye to eye. Mostly he was high fiving me for contributing some sincere writing, sharing my perspective and inviting others to do the same. Did you read Xeno's reply? Some interesting stuff came out of it. I wish you would share more of your experiences with spirituality this way. I liked the concerns you brought up here - just disagree with your conclusions and how you brush off all cults, religion. Glad Judy challenged that. I suspect we have many points of agreement in our views about spiritual groups Ravi. It is a little harder because my experience is mostly localized in a group you weren't in. But many groups share a lot of similarities, especially in how the followers operate. I don't understand the need to excessively qualify everything you say as my opinion this, or my opinion that. I think that is pretty obvious. My buy in was also tremendous. My take away from the experience is at a different point on the scale than yours, but I don't think you are skewing the whole affair by any means. And furthermore this place is greatly enhanced by your participation. I know you hear this a alot and the reason is, because it's just true. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@wrote: Yeah, I don't think this covers the comparison with cocaine and gambling. That goes beyond just being honest about your own POV. The reward centers of our brains do not make the value judgements about what triggers the endorphins. My point concerns the content free reward system itself. And since I spent a lot of time being fulltime I saw a lot of people whose lives were a wreck from their fixation on meditation. Later after I got out I spent time with families who had been torn apart by their kids over-involvement and inability to support themselves. So the comparisons with other activities that can incapacitate people due to an uncontrollable urge like for rounding courses is not without some basis in my experience. And these levels of exposure was what Maharishi was pushing when I was involved. It was what he wanted from his teachers. Most people who start TM never get to that level of
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
OMG Ann wrote all that and you don't show any inclination to absorb what she had to say - you couldn't detect any sincerity, conviction in her post? You dismiss Ann's entire message because you think Ann wants Judy's support in attacking others? Oh boy - you are fucking hopeless man. On Sun, Mar 10, 2013 at 8:22 PM, seventhray27 steve.sun...@yahoo.comwrote: ** --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann awoelflebater@... wrote: No 'taker' here but I will give something. I actually take umbrage at your assertion about Judy's honesty. I personally don't think she has a dishonest molecule in her body. In fact, I would go so far as to says she can't help but tell the truth, as she sees it and at the risk of seriously pissing everyone off. I do not believe Judy is about distracting her reader from what is the closest to the truth of a thing, as she sees it from her level. snip Ann, More credit to you, if you can follow her arguments. I find that they often become convoluted beyond any sensible conclusion. And I suspect that you, like most of us, don't bother to read past the first couple of rebuttals she makes, especially after the third of fourth iteration. I would say, that if anyone wants to find a flaw in another person's reasoning, they can do so. There is always some technical point that can be disputed. But, by that point the spirit of the argument, or discussion is lost, and the object becomes simply finding a way to win. Or maybe you decide to frame your argument in parameters that you alone determine as valid and win on that basis. Oh, and the sin of snipping. That can always be grounds for immediate dismissal of any points. Because snipping in Judy's book is to hide something, and not for conciseness. (unless she does it) And yes, she does have time, have time, have time for nearly unlimited research, (which we must remember is research when she does it, but internet stalking when done by someone else) So, all of this, for me, disputes any notion of honesty on Judy's part. But I certainly understand the attraction of having someone like Judy on your team. She can disparage with best of them. But, I suspect that she would remain a better friend, or ally at a distance. And is it fair to bring up, that there must come a time, when we think about what legacy we might leave behind. I think that comes into play at some point. She is inexhaustible in her research and in the pursuit of 'getting it right'; she obviously has a mind that ranks right up there, as far as lucid, raw intelligence goes, as high as anybody who has ever posted here. (I know who is rolling their eyes right now, so don't think I don't.) Her style, her fighting instinct, her doggedness does not endear her to everyone. Fair enough. You don't have to like someone to appreciate their innate insistence on accuracy, on this kind of purity of defining things. She is, to me, very like a human barometer or other finely-tuned instrument that can't go against this nature of hers to give one an accurate reading. She can admit when she is wrong. She isn't easy at times, in fact she can be bloody ruthless. But I love that, in its proper time, in its proper context. The thing is, I don't believe Judy writes/asserts anything she does not truly believe - even at the risk of being wrong. If that is not honesty, then I don't know what is.
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@... no_reply@... wrote: To explain further, my daughter attends SFSU, and because the school gets some funding from the feds, there is no dope smoking on campus. Although slightly inconvenient, if you want a smoke, walk across the street, off campus, and you can blow it in a cop's face with no consequences - it IS San Francisco, after all. However, at the start of each year my daughter says there are always the first two weeks with fire alarms going off every night in the dorms, because students are getting high and the cops come haul them off, every time. Stupid kids, just like the dork at MSAE. So its not a conformity thing (also, fyi, the only characteristic of an enlightened mind, is its pristine emptiness), merely a way to live life in a smart, considerate way, vs. the disruptive and painful consequences of acting stupidly. So, if the dork is enabled to continue the way he was acting, and lights up a doob at work, he would get what he deserves. Yep, Focused on The evident reality of the neuroplasticity of young developing brains drug use in school age (up to age 25!) youth is a pernicious problem for all of society and should not be condoned or tolerated at all let alone facilitated by anyone. As a community as the MSAE is about the full development of the person they certainly have particular right to ask and require their students to be without the use of drugs. One would hope any school for youth would hold to that too. This is now just elemental developmental brain physiology that should be societal policy; and people who get in the way of protecting this and even corrupt the system by supplying drugs to youth would be wholly strung up by all of civil society. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: I don't care if he got disciplined for picking his nose. He deserves what he gets, for getting caught. Anyone who hasn't learned how to take a discreet hit is not smart enough to go to college. What a dope. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: -- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: I can't wait 'til the little dork lights up a doobie at his first job, and learns no MEANS no.:-) Conformity and obedience are really the most valued qualities of the enlightened mind aren't they? I don't suppose just getting bounced out of college is enough punishment for doing such a horrible thing. It is more satisfying to fantasize about him losing a job in the future. And he is such a little dork for doing exactly what almost every poster here, as well as our last three presidents did... and ALL future presidents. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: Look, these kids were part of something very large and special within consciousness-based education. It is what their parents wanted and were hoping for them and were providing and many have sacrificed to make happen for their kids. Consciousness-based education. Did You Know That Meditating Just 15 Min a Day twice a day Could Change Your Life? You've heard of neuroplasticity, particularly in young brains? If these little shits are going to persist in screwing up their meditations and dulling the collective consciousness of the whole group with the smoke and haze of marijuana and other drugs then let them go to public education. Everyone knows the rules on drug use and meditation and why they are there. Jeesuus. Spare the rod, ruin the child. If and when the these children stop using marijuana they can come back to ideal education as better prepared students to make use of a large opportunity. Just like the adult fallen away meditators can always re-apply to meditate in the Domes with the large groups. There is quite a lot of empathy within the system to facilitate consciousness-based education. If people can't follow the simple rule about drug use for the good reasons of spiritual clarity, they should live with the consequence until they clear up in this or some other lifetime. For right now there is something much larger and much more high-minded going on here than these little shits going out to get high with drugs and dragging the community down along with them. I am entirely with Bevan on this. Why be part of a community if the community can't protect itself from such erosion as young kids using drugs. We're trying to do something here that needs to be protected. I'm sorry to be the one to
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: To explain further, my daughter attends SFSU, and because the school gets some funding from the feds, there is no dope smoking on campus. Although slightly inconvenient, if you want a smoke, walk across the street, off campus, and you can blow it in a cop's face with no consequences - it IS San Francisco, after all. However, at the start of each year my daughter says there are always the first two weeks with fire alarms going off every night in the dorms, because students are getting high and the cops come haul them off, every time. Stupid kids, just like the dork at MSAE. So its not a conformity thing (also, fyi, the only characteristic of an enlightened mind, is its pristine emptiness), merely a way to live life in a smart, considerate way, vs. the disruptive and painful consequences of acting stupidly. So, if the dork is enabled to continue the way he was acting, and lights up a doob at work, he would get what he deserves. Yep, Focused on The evident reality of the neuroplasticity of young developing brains drug use in school age (up to age 25!) youth is a pernicious problem for all of society and should not be condoned or tolerated at all let alone facilitated by anyone. As a community as the MSAE is about the full development of the person they certainly have particular right to ask and require their students to be without the use of drugs. One would hope any school for youth would hold to that too. This is now just elemental developmental brain physiology that should be societal policy; and people who get in the way of protecting this and even corrupt the system by supplying drugs to youth would be wholly strung up by all of civil society. For instance according to local newspapers, just recently in the courts here there has been sentencing of some of the people who were supplying illicit and corrupting drugs during some of the time of some of the related incidents being reported in social media as the tale-bearing tainting gossips about the MUM campus and MSAE school communities here. Some family with dad and son evidently developed elaborate criminal interstate rackets here initially with an open refrigerator-door to their pot and cocaine for kids during those school years, they got figured out by State and local law enforcement and the courts, with the son now recently sent off to Federal penitentiary. The court determined these guys were an incredibly corrupting element in the civil community, An abomination. So it went and justice in a civil society worked and the asocial proscribed. Evidently in a larger way according to the latest science this is all in an accord with the Natural Law of an appropriate brain physiology. And underneath it all is the protection of the spirituality of our youth from corruption. I should hope in the expressed illiberality of some writing here these writers are not in fact advocating the licentious use of drugs by our youth. That would be a serious shame. --Buck --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: I don't care if he got disciplined for picking his nose. He deserves what he gets, for getting caught. Anyone who hasn't learned how to take a discreet hit is not smart enough to go to college. What a dope. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: -- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: I can't wait 'til the little dork lights up a doobie at his first job, and learns no MEANS no.:-) Conformity and obedience are really the most valued qualities of the enlightened mind aren't they? I don't suppose just getting bounced out of college is enough punishment for doing such a horrible thing. It is more satisfying to fantasize about him losing a job in the future. And he is such a little dork for doing exactly what almost every poster here, as well as our last three presidents did... and ALL future presidents. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: Look, these kids were part of something very large and special within consciousness-based education. It is what their parents wanted and were hoping for them and were providing and many have sacrificed to make happen for their kids. Consciousness-based education. Did You Know That Meditating Just 15 Min a Day twice a day Could Change Your Life? You've heard of neuroplasticity, particularly in young brains? If these little shits are going to persist in screwing up their
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
I do see your point, only the word, drugs, is about as well understood as the word, enlightenment is.:-) What do you consider drugs? For the purpose of responding, I'll take the definition to mean illegal, psychoactive substances. Within that family, there is a huge amount of variability, in potency, danger, and effect. The anti-drug laws are made as a result of social policy, *not* health policy. Otherwise, of course, alcohol would be illegal. Given that understanding, lumping in weed with heroin, and cocaine, and meth, doesn't make a lot of sense, as the voters are increasingly indicating, nationwide. I don't advocate kids taking drugs, but I also make a distinction between those truly harmful substances, and those far less so. As with anything else, like chronically bashing TM and the TMO, frequency can veer off into addiction, and addiction is not a good idea, ever. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: To explain further, my daughter attends SFSU, and because the school gets some funding from the feds, there is no dope smoking on campus. Although slightly inconvenient, if you want a smoke, walk across the street, off campus, and you can blow it in a cop's face with no consequences - it IS San Francisco, after all. However, at the start of each year my daughter says there are always the first two weeks with fire alarms going off every night in the dorms, because students are getting high and the cops come haul them off, every time. Stupid kids, just like the dork at MSAE. So its not a conformity thing (also, fyi, the only characteristic of an enlightened mind, is its pristine emptiness), merely a way to live life in a smart, considerate way, vs. the disruptive and painful consequences of acting stupidly. So, if the dork is enabled to continue the way he was acting, and lights up a doob at work, he would get what he deserves. Yep, Focused on The evident reality of the neuroplasticity of young developing brains drug use in school age (up to age 25!) youth is a pernicious problem for all of society and should not be condoned or tolerated at all let alone facilitated by anyone. As a community as the MSAE is about the full development of the person they certainly have particular right to ask and require their students to be without the use of drugs. One would hope any school for youth would hold to that too. This is now just elemental developmental brain physiology that should be societal policy; and people who get in the way of protecting this and even corrupt the system by supplying drugs to youth would be wholly strung up by all of civil society. For instance according to local newspapers, just recently in the courts here there has been sentencing of some of the people who were supplying illicit and corrupting drugs during some of the time of some of the related incidents being reported in social media as the tale-bearing tainting gossips about the MUM campus and MSAE school communities here. Some family with dad and son evidently developed elaborate criminal interstate rackets here initially with an open refrigerator-door to their pot and cocaine for kids during those school years, they got figured out by State and local law enforcement and the courts, with the son now recently sent off to Federal penitentiary. The court determined these guys were an incredibly corrupting element in the civil community, An abomination. So it went and justice in a civil society worked and the asocial proscribed. Evidently in a larger way according to the latest science this is all in an accord with the Natural Law of an appropriate brain physiology. And underneath it all is the protection of the spirituality of our youth from corruption. I should hope in the expressed illiberality of some writing here these writers are not in fact advocating the licentious use of drugs by our youth. That would be a serious shame. --Buck --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: I don't care if he got disciplined for picking his nose. He deserves what he gets, for getting caught. Anyone who hasn't learned how to take a discreet hit is not smart enough to go to college. What a dope. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: -- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: I can't wait 'til the little dork lights up a doobie at his first job, and learns no MEANS no.:-) Conformity and obedience are really the most valued qualities of the enlightened mind aren't they? I don't suppose just getting bounced out of college is enough punishment for doing
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@... no_reply@... wrote: I don't care if he got disciplined for picking his nose. He deserves what he gets, for getting caught. Anyone who hasn't learned how to take a discreet hit is not smart enough to go to college. What a dope. He's just lucky the high and mighty admin didn't stone him on his way out of the joint. To be blunt, they might have been fired up enough to have reef(ed) back hit (bong and boink!) the exiting student on the head. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: -- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: I can't wait 'til the little dork lights up a doobie at his first job, and learns no MEANS no.:-) Conformity and obedience are really the most valued qualities of the enlightened mind aren't they? I don't suppose just getting bounced out of college is enough punishment for doing such a horrible thing. It is more satisfying to fantasize about him losing a job in the future. And he is such a little dork for doing exactly what almost every poster here, as well as our last three presidents did... and ALL future presidents. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: Look, these kids were part of something very large and special within consciousness-based education. It is what their parents wanted and were hoping for them and were providing and many have sacrificed to make happen for their kids. Consciousness-based education. Did You Know That Meditating Just 15 Min a Day twice a day Could Change Your Life? You've heard of neuroplasticity, particularly in young brains? If these little shits are going to persist in screwing up their meditations and dulling the collective consciousness of the whole group with the smoke and haze of marijuana and other drugs then let them go to public education. Everyone knows the rules on drug use and meditation and why they are there. Jeesuus. Spare the rod, ruin the child. If and when the these children stop using marijuana they can come back to ideal education as better prepared students to make use of a large opportunity. Just like the adult fallen away meditators can always re-apply to meditate in the Domes with the large groups. There is quite a lot of empathy within the system to facilitate consciousness-based education. If people can't follow the simple rule about drug use for the good reasons of spiritual clarity, they should live with the consequence until they clear up in this or some other lifetime. For right now there is something much larger and much more high-minded going on here than these little shits going out to get high with drugs and dragging the community down along with them. I am entirely with Bevan on this. Why be part of a community if the community can't protect itself from such erosion as young kids using drugs. We're trying to do something here that needs to be protected. I'm sorry to be the one to break it to you Buck, kids are going to smoke dope, they are going to experiment. They are NOT going to be willing goody-goodies at all times no matter how much parents want them to. I assume you were young once? This is the bit that gives it away: It is what their parents wanted and were hoping for them and were providing and many have sacrificed to make happen for their kids Do you really think what the parents wanted is going to be the same as what the kids wanted? Sipping hot water and trudging to the dome twice a day? You guys want to get real, that sort of life is something you can choose to do when you know a bit about life and have been round the block a few times, but to try to inflict it (or any lifestyle) on your offspring is asking for trouble. I would have done it to spite you when I was 18. Especially if you called me a little shit for not being as high minded as you, you'd get psylocibin mushrooms in your hot water for that! Surely though, and I'm being serious here, if kids are smoking dope where does that leave the idea of spontaneous right action? Where does that leave the idea of coherence in collective consciousness? Where does that leave the research on drugs and TM that show people spontaneously give up drugs? If it don't work at MUM it's going to be a tough sell for the rest of the world. -Buck in the Dome --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote:
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann awoelflebater@... wrote: Me: I loved being sober at MIU. It was a fantastic college experience for me and I can relate to your points. But this still reveals a real flaw in the ideal education. They still have the same solution to kids smoking pot that was popular in prep schools in the early 70's: throw the bum out. See, now the school is drug free! It is lame. Especially for a technique that claims to evolve people out of wanting to get high. And remember when we went to MIU we had the glassy eyes of expectation of wonderous things just around the corner. These students have seen what 40 years of meditation gets you: another version of your dad. Not charming, giggling, flower waving Maharishi, but big ol' Bevan-walrus and a bunch of other old timers who need help loading up their Ipod with MP3s of Charles Llyod playing his TM inspired flute songs to whales. (Yes, that is an actual thing.) They know they are not on the cusp of any breakthrough. Remember how it was for us? People in Switzerland were flying...so we were told. People talked to squirrels. (According to Jonathan Shear) Larry Domash found his lost pen magically!) They were heady times and we were on the cusp of something amazing. So it really wasn't much of a stretch for me to give up drugs. But I pushed the boundaries appropriate to my age. I did things that got kids kicked out in later years. Skinny dipping co-ed at Lake Keosauqua and the reservoir and dorm showers...and anywhere else I could get young ladies to serve up the simplest form of undress. These kids know everything. They know Maharishi banged young white girls. We thought he was a God. They just don't have the context we had. But more than that. Any school who deals with kids smoking pot by saying we can't help you get your shit and leave is lame IMO. And that is even institutions that don't sprinkle on the ideals like powdered sugar on french toast. (Use day old Challah bread) They have exposed that they are just another strict Christian school who can't handle any kid's rebellion. Our class was the first one at MIU with actual kids, not TM teachers. The class was much more indoctrinated than some of these kids. So yeah, I get that we loved our drug-free MIU. And I get it that these are the rules of the group and they SHOULD know them. As I said in an earlier post, the part of your brain that actually allow us to foresee the consequences of our actions is physically NOT developed till 26. And society expectations of them being responsible don't change that. (BTW society actually preys on this when we send young people to war. There is a reason for that.) When I was at MIU there were off-the-program students smoking pot and drinking. It had nothing to do with me and my choices. They kept it on the down-low and it was none of my business. I think Dennis Ramondi was very compassionate toward us that we were all growing and none of us was ideal anything. MIU is a buzz kill, and I wound never recommend smoking weed there. But is this is their answer to the drug problem, then they really aren't adding anything new are they? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: -- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: Spare the rod, ruin the child. For right now there is something much larger and much more high-minded going on here than these little shits going out to get high with drugs and dragging the community down along with them. Why be part of a community if the community can't protect itself from such erosion as young kids using drugs. First let me say that your stern views are the same as the TM administration, and when I was a mouthpiece for pure knowledge, I would have parroted the same. And interestingly, you admitted you were one of the more strait-laced students there when you and I attended MIU. You apparently sought out and appreciated the environment that MIU, as a drug and alcohol free as well as spiritual/evolutionary place to be, provided. Granted, times have changed and so have you but at the time that is a big part of why you were there presumably. And many others as well. What people expect at MIU/MUM these days I have no idea. It is not somewhere I would chose to be as the person I am now but it certainly was back in 1975-1980. So please view the following ripping a new one as directed toward this pernicious style of thinking rather than directed at your Steven Colbert style mash-up parody, where-does-it-end-and-you-begin, persona here. Here is my problem with this. The first two quotes are draconian 1950's anti-kid I don't think they are 'anit-kid'. I just think, the first one, in particular, is a cliche and an old one to boot. The others just sound more like Buck's style of fire and brimstone
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
I wonder what would happen to the world economy if ALL addicts, no matter what their substance or activity, had a way to monitor their craving and deliver themselves some satisfying chemical from inside their own physiology. Thanks Doc and Curtis, your points make me think. And Ann, I agree with you about this morning: I was laughing my head off at the exchange between Nabby and Salya. From: doctordumb...@rocketmail.com doctordumb...@rocketmail.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 9, 2013 6:32 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment. I do see your point, only the word, drugs, is about as well understood as the word, enlightenment is.:-) What do you consider drugs? For the purpose of responding, I'll take the definition to mean illegal, psychoactive substances. Within that family, there is a huge amount of variability, in potency, danger, and effect. The anti-drug laws are made as a result of social policy, *not* health policy. Otherwise, of course, alcohol would be illegal. Given that understanding, lumping in weed with heroin, and cocaine, and meth, doesn't make a lot of sense, as the voters are increasingly indicating, nationwide. I don't advocate kids taking drugs, but I also make a distinction between those truly harmful substances, and those far less so. As with anything else, like chronically bashing TM and the TMO, frequency can veer off into addiction, and addiction is not a good idea, ever. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: To explain further, my daughter attends SFSU, and because the school gets some funding from the feds, there is no dope smoking on campus. Although slightly inconvenient, if you want a smoke, walk across the street, off campus, and you can blow it in a cop's face with no consequences - it IS San Francisco, after all. However, at the start of each year my daughter says there are always the first two weeks with fire alarms going off every night in the dorms, because students are getting high and the cops come haul them off, every time. Stupid kids, just like the dork at MSAE. So its not a conformity thing (also, fyi, the only characteristic of an enlightened mind, is its pristine emptiness), merely a way to live life in a smart, considerate way, vs. the disruptive and painful consequences of acting stupidly. So, if the dork is enabled to continue the way he was acting, and lights up a doob at work, he would get what he deserves. Yep, Focused on The evident reality of the neuroplasticity of young developing brains drug use in school age (up to age 25!) youth is a pernicious problem for all of society and should not be condoned or tolerated at all let alone facilitated by anyone. As a community as the MSAE is about the full development of the person they certainly have particular right to ask and require their students to be without the use of drugs. One would hope any school for youth would hold to that too. This is now just elemental developmental brain physiology that should be societal policy; and people who get in the way of protecting this and even corrupt the system by supplying drugs to youth would be wholly strung up by all of civil society. For instance according to local newspapers, just recently in the courts here there has been sentencing of some of the people who were supplying illicit and corrupting drugs during some of the time of some of the related incidents being reported in social media as the tale-bearing tainting gossips about the MUM campus and MSAE school communities here. Some family with dad and son evidently developed elaborate criminal interstate rackets here initially with an open refrigerator-door to their pot and cocaine for kids during those school years, they got figured out by State and local law enforcement and the courts, with the son now recently sent off to Federal penitentiary. The court determined these guys were an incredibly corrupting element in the civil community, An abomination. So it went and justice in a civil society worked and the asocial proscribed. Evidently in a larger way according to the latest science this is all in an accord with the Natural Law of an appropriate brain physiology. And underneath it all is the protection of the spirituality of our youth from corruption. I should hope in the expressed illiberality of some writing here these writers are not in fact advocating the licentious use of drugs by our youth. That would be a serious shame. --Buck --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: I don't care if he got disciplined for picking his nose. He deserves
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
Re: I wonder what would happen to the world economy if ALL addicts, no matter what their substance or activity, had a way to monitor their craving and deliver themselves some satisfying chemical from inside their own physiology. Share, can you expand on this? In that what do you mean by monitor their craving, no matter what.and deliver themselves some satisfying chemical from inside.. From: Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 9, 2013 8:22 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment. I wonder what would happen to the world economy if ALL addicts, no matter what their substance or activity, had a way to monitor their craving and deliver themselves some satisfying chemical from inside their own physiology. Thanks Doc and Curtis, your points make me think. And Ann, I agree with you about this morning: I was laughing my head off at the exchange between Nabby and Salya. From: doctordumb...@rocketmail.com doctordumb...@rocketmail.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 9, 2013 6:32 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment. I do see your point, only the word, drugs, is about as well understood as the word, enlightenment is.:-) What do you consider drugs? For the purpose of responding, I'll take the definition to mean illegal, psychoactive substances. Within that family, there is a huge amount of variability, in potency, danger, and effect. The anti-drug laws are made as a result of social policy, *not* health policy. Otherwise, of course, alcohol would be illegal. Given that understanding, lumping in weed with heroin, and cocaine, and meth, doesn't make a lot of sense, as the voters are increasingly indicating, nationwide. I don't advocate kids taking drugs, but I also make a distinction between those truly harmful substances, and those far less so. As with anything else, like chronically bashing TM and the TMO, frequency can veer off into addiction, and addiction is not a good idea, ever. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: To explain further, my daughter attends SFSU, and because the school gets some funding from the feds, there is no dope smoking on campus. Although slightly inconvenient, if you want a smoke, walk across the street, off campus, and you can blow it in a cop's face with no consequences - it IS San Francisco, after all. However, at the start of each year my daughter says there are always the first two weeks with fire alarms going off every night in the dorms, because students are getting high and the cops come haul them off, every time. Stupid kids, just like the dork at MSAE. So its not a conformity thing (also, fyi, the only characteristic of an enlightened mind, is its pristine emptiness), merely a way to live life in a smart, considerate way, vs. the disruptive and painful consequences of acting stupidly. So, if the dork is enabled to continue the way he was acting, and lights up a doob at work, he would get what he deserves. Yep, Focused on The evident reality of the neuroplasticity of young developing brains drug use in school age (up to age 25!) youth is a pernicious problem for all of society and should not be condoned or tolerated at all let alone facilitated by anyone. As a community as the MSAE is about the full development of the person they certainly have particular right to ask and require their students to be without the use of drugs. One would hope any school for youth would hold to that too. This is now just elemental developmental brain physiology that should be societal policy; and people who get in the way of protecting this and even corrupt the system by supplying drugs to youth would be wholly strung up by all of civil society. For instance according to local newspapers, just recently in the courts here there has been sentencing of some of the people who were supplying illicit and corrupting drugs during some of the time of some of the related incidents being reported in social media as the tale-bearing tainting gossips about the MUM campus and MSAE school communities here. Some family with dad and son evidently developed elaborate criminal interstate rackets here initially with an open refrigerator-door to their pot and cocaine for kids during those school years, they got figured out by State and local law enforcement and the courts, with the son now recently sent off to Federal penitentiary. The court determined these guys were an incredibly corrupting element in the civil
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
Just the last few days I've been talking about addictions with a friend and I've been thinking about them even longer. I'm not an expert but it seems that even addicts who are addicted to an activity like shopping or gambling or reading romance novels, such addicts are really addicted to whatever chemical in their body that that activity releases. So for example, let's say a gambling addict could tell somehow when their craving for that activity was reaching a dangerously high level because the concomitant chemical was reaching a dangerously low level. Instead of going to the local casino, what if there was some way they could release that craved chemical in their own body without ever going to the casino? From: Emily Reyn emilymae.r...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 9, 2013 10:30 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment. Re: I wonder what would happen to the world economy if ALL addicts, no matter what their substance or activity, had a way to monitor their craving and deliver themselves some satisfying chemical from inside their own physiology. Share, can you expand on this? In that what do you mean by monitor their craving, no matter what.and deliver themselves some satisfying chemical from inside.. From: Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 9, 2013 8:22 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment. I wonder what would happen to the world economy if ALL addicts, no matter what their substance or activity, had a way to monitor their craving and deliver themselves some satisfying chemical from inside their own physiology. Thanks Doc and Curtis, your points make me think. And Ann, I agree with you about this morning: I was laughing my head off at the exchange between Nabby and Salya. From: doctordumb...@rocketmail.com doctordumb...@rocketmail.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 9, 2013 6:32 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment. I do see your point, only the word, drugs, is about as well understood as the word, enlightenment is.:-) What do you consider drugs? For the purpose of responding, I'll take the definition to mean illegal, psychoactive substances. Within that family, there is a huge amount of variability, in potency, danger, and effect. The anti-drug laws are made as a result of social policy, *not* health policy. Otherwise, of course, alcohol would be illegal. Given that understanding, lumping in weed with heroin, and cocaine, and meth, doesn't make a lot of sense, as the voters are increasingly indicating, nationwide. I don't advocate kids taking drugs, but I also make a distinction between those truly harmful substances, and those far less so. As with anything else, like chronically bashing TM and the TMO, frequency can veer off into addiction, and addiction is not a good idea, ever. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: To explain further, my daughter attends SFSU, and because the school gets some funding from the feds, there is no dope smoking on campus. Although slightly inconvenient, if you want a smoke, walk across the street, off campus, and you can blow it in a cop's face with no consequences - it IS San Francisco, after all. However, at the start of each year my daughter says there are always the first two weeks with fire alarms going off every night in the dorms, because students are getting high and the cops come haul them off, every time. Stupid kids, just like the dork at MSAE. So its not a conformity thing (also, fyi, the only characteristic of an enlightened mind, is its pristine emptiness), merely a way to live life in a smart, considerate way, vs. the disruptive and painful consequences of acting stupidly. So, if the dork is enabled to continue the way he was acting, and lights up a doob at work, he would get what he deserves. Yep, Focused on The evident reality of the neuroplasticity of young developing brains drug use in school age (up to age 25!) youth is a pernicious problem for all of society and should not be condoned or tolerated at all let alone facilitated by anyone. As a community as the MSAE is about the full development of the person they certainly have particular right to ask and require their students to be without the use of drugs. One would hope any school for youth would hold to that too. This is now just elemental
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
H, well I guess they could have sex, or exercise, or maybe meditate, or maybe eat a pieit's about the endorphins, is it not?, or other feel good chemicals, in the context you mention. If they are addicted to the endorphin rush and therefore activities that release the endorphins and they replace one with another - they are doomed to become addicted to whatever. Doesn't get to the issue of addiction very well. Although physical exercise is better for you than eating too much sugar or gambling all your money away in the heat of the moment. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: Just the last few days I've been talking about addictions with a friend and I've been thinking about them even longer. I'm not an expert but it seems that even addicts who are addicted to an activity like shopping or gambling or reading romance novels, such addicts are really addicted to whatever chemical in their body that that activity releases. So for example, let's say a gambling addict could tell somehow when their craving for that activity was reaching a dangerously high level because the concomitant chemical was reaching a dangerously low level. Instead of going to the local casino, what if there was some way they could release that craved chemical in their own body without ever going to the casino? From: Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 9, 2013 10:30 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.  Re: I wonder what would happen to the world economy if ALL addicts, no matter what their substance or activity, had a way to monitor their craving and deliver themselves some satisfying chemical from inside their own physiology. Share, can you expand on this?  In that what do you mean by monitor their craving, no matter what.and deliver themselves some satisfying chemical from inside.. From: Share Long sharelong60@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 9, 2013 8:22 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.  I wonder what would happen to the world economy if ALL addicts, no matter what their substance or activity, had a way to monitor their craving and deliver themselves some satisfying chemical from inside their own physiology. Thanks Doc and Curtis, your points make me think. And Ann, I agree with you about this morning: I was laughing my head off at the exchange between Nabby and Salya. From: doctordumbass@... doctordumbass@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 9, 2013 6:32 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.  I do see your point, only the word, drugs, is about as well understood as the word, enlightenment is.:-) What do you consider drugs? For the purpose of responding, I'll take the definition to mean illegal, psychoactive substances. Within that family, there is a huge amount of variability, in potency, danger, and effect. The anti-drug laws are made as a result of social policy, *not* health policy. Otherwise, of course, alcohol would be illegal. Given that understanding, lumping in weed with heroin, and cocaine, and meth, doesn't make a lot of sense, as the voters are increasingly indicating, nationwide. I don't advocate kids taking drugs, but I also make a distinction between those truly harmful substances, and those far less so. As with anything else, like chronically bashing TM and the TMO, frequency can veer off into addiction, and addiction is not a good idea, ever. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: To explain further, my daughter attends SFSU, and because the school gets some funding from the feds, there is no dope smoking on campus. Although slightly inconvenient, if you want a smoke, walk across the street, off campus, and you can blow it in a cop's face with no consequences - it IS San Francisco, after all. However, at the start of each year my daughter says there are always the first two weeks with fire alarms going off every night in the dorms, because students are getting high and the cops come haul them off, every time. Stupid kids, just like the dork at MSAE. So its not a conformity thing (also, fyi, the only characteristic of an enlightened mind, is its pristine emptiness), merely a way to live life in a smart, considerate way, vs. the disruptive and painful consequences of
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
Does meditation work to balance out the chemical makeup of one's physiology? Does it release our natural feel good chemicals within the body? Or, maintain balanced levels of serotonin, dopamine, etc. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emilymae.reyn emilymae.reyn@... wrote: H, well I guess they could have sex, or exercise, or maybe meditate, or maybe eat a pieit's about the endorphins, is it not?, or other feel good chemicals, in the context you mention. If they are addicted to the endorphin rush and therefore activities that release the endorphins and they replace one with another - they are doomed to become addicted to whatever. Doesn't get to the issue of addiction very well. Although physical exercise is better for you than eating too much sugar or gambling all your money away in the heat of the moment. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: Just the last few days I've been talking about addictions with a friend and I've been thinking about them even longer. I'm not an expert but it seems that even addicts who are addicted to an activity like shopping or gambling or reading romance novels, such addicts are really addicted to whatever chemical in their body that that activity releases. So for example, let's say a gambling addict could tell somehow when their craving for that activity was reaching a dangerously high level because the concomitant chemical was reaching a dangerously low level. Instead of going to the local casino, what if there was some way they could release that craved chemical in their own body without ever going to the casino? From: Emily Reyn emilymae.reyn@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 9, 2013 10:30 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.  Re: I wonder what would happen to the world economy if ALL addicts, no matter what their substance or activity, had a way to monitor their craving and deliver themselves some satisfying chemical from inside their own physiology. Share, can you expand on this?  In that what do you mean by monitor their craving, no matter what.and deliver themselves some satisfying chemical from inside.. From: Share Long sharelong60@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 9, 2013 8:22 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.  I wonder what would happen to the world economy if ALL addicts, no matter what their substance or activity, had a way to monitor their craving and deliver themselves some satisfying chemical from inside their own physiology. Thanks Doc and Curtis, your points make me think. And Ann, I agree with you about this morning: I was laughing my head off at the exchange between Nabby and Salya. From: doctordumbass@ doctordumbass@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 9, 2013 6:32 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.  I do see your point, only the word, drugs, is about as well understood as the word, enlightenment is.:-) What do you consider drugs? For the purpose of responding, I'll take the definition to mean illegal, psychoactive substances. Within that family, there is a huge amount of variability, in potency, danger, and effect. The anti-drug laws are made as a result of social policy, *not* health policy. Otherwise, of course, alcohol would be illegal. Given that understanding, lumping in weed with heroin, and cocaine, and meth, doesn't make a lot of sense, as the voters are increasingly indicating, nationwide. I don't advocate kids taking drugs, but I also make a distinction between those truly harmful substances, and those far less so. As with anything else, like chronically bashing TM and the TMO, frequency can veer off into addiction, and addiction is not a good idea, ever. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: To explain further, my daughter attends SFSU, and because the school gets some funding from the feds, there is no dope smoking on campus. Although slightly inconvenient, if you want a smoke, walk across the street, off campus, and you can blow it in a cop's face with no consequences - it IS San Francisco, after all. However, at the start of each year my daughter says there are always the first two weeks with fire alarms going off every night in the
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: Just the last few days I've been talking about addictions with a friend and I've been thinking about them even longer. I'm not an expert but it seems that even addicts who are addicted to an activity like shopping or gambling or reading romance novels, such addicts are really addicted to whatever chemical in their body that that activity releases. So for example, let's say a gambling addict could tell somehow when their craving for that activity was reaching a dangerously high level because the concomitant chemical was reaching a dangerously low level. Instead of going to the local casino, what if there was some way they could release that craved chemical in their own body without ever going to the casino? I suppose the irony of this whole conversation for me is that I was a heavy dope smoker right up until the week I learned TM. The teacher said we should avoid recreational drugs for two weeks before we learn as they interfere with the process. Which came as a bit of a shock as smoking dope was like breathing to me but I wanted to do it right and complied. I had such a good initial experience that I was transformed into a raging Buddha overnight. After the 2nd day of checking I went out for a pint with some of my droogs and realised that drinking spoiled the effect of a natural high I got from TM but when I tried a joint it was like every cell in my brain went buzzy and cloudy, totally undermining my new found self. Nasty enough for me to hand it back and say No way! That was it for both of my main avenues of pleasure. Dropped at once by instinct. I never said never again, indeed my mates who knew me rather well, gave it six weeks at the outside. 20 years later and I've forgotten what it all felt like. What is strange to me then is how these kids, or anyone, can enjoy dope and TM. To me they simply did not mix, are the MUM stoners totally OTP? Or was my reaction OTT? Has anyone else successfully done both?
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emilymae.reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: Does meditation work to balance out the chemical makeup of one's physiology? Does it release our natural feel good chemicals within the body? Or, maintain balanced levels of serotonin, dopamine, etc. My experience with TM meditation and its associated practices is that it is a way to hijack our usual brain reward system for achievement in our lives. Maybe this should say, ...it is a way to hijack my usual brain reward system for achievement in my life, since this is your personal experience. And this was Maharishi's stated goal, fulfillment divorced from achievement. When did he say this? Do you have a quote? Was this one of the secret teachings just for teachers? Because I sure don't remember having heard him say it. Anybody else remember Maharishi saying this was his goal? If you keep mediating you cultivate the mind to trigger highly pleasurable states. It becomes very addictive. Many meditators show signs of extreme irritation if they miss a mediation once they get hooked on it just like any other addict. How many meditators show this? What percentage would you say? And how have you determined this? In what follows, you shift back and forth from statements about your personal experience to general statements as to how TM affects people in general. With regard to the latter, could you explain how you've determined that these are effects common to everyone who practices TM? (Or meditation in general, depending on which you mean, which you don't always specify.) I ask because none of what you describe resembles my own experience. So IMO mediation can become a problem like any other form of hijacking the pleasure states, meant to reward our species for doing things that promote our survival or express our creativity. I believe there is no neuronal free lunch, every pleasure state has a cost. Of course this is a highly heretical view in circles where regular meditation and more meditation are both seen as only positives. But for me the balance is trickier. I use meditation when I need some of what it does for my brain, but regular meditation just leads to me getting hooked on the mental states it produces. And for me these states do not produce my optimum functioning. They are as advertized, very charming to our minds. But they can easily lead to an end in themselves since our brains are inherently lazy and getting the quick reward is neurologically preferred. Unfortunately that does not lead to my fullest creative potential any more than hitting the slot lever again and again. Although they say that meditation is a preparation for activity, and I don't doubt that for really impulsive people it is a real benefit, for people like me who have perhaps cultivated this functioning a bit too much, it can become a real distraction. I get a lot more done with my eyes opened! This understanding is still just a work in progress. I am fascinated that some like Barry maintain that other forms of meditation do no exhibit some of what I see as downsides of TM's passive bliss states style.
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
Maybe a good bonk would chill um out! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann awoelflebater@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: I don't care if he got disciplined for picking his nose. He deserves what he gets, for getting caught. Anyone who hasn't learned how to take a discreet hit is not smart enough to go to college. What a dope. He's just lucky the high and mighty admin didn't stone him on his way out of the joint. To be blunt, they might have been fired up enough to have reef(ed) back hit (bong and boink!) the exiting student on the head. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: -- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: I can't wait 'til the little dork lights up a doobie at his first job, and learns no MEANS no.:-) Conformity and obedience are really the most valued qualities of the enlightened mind aren't they? I don't suppose just getting bounced out of college is enough punishment for doing such a horrible thing. It is more satisfying to fantasize about him losing a job in the future. And he is such a little dork for doing exactly what almost every poster here, as well as our last three presidents did... and ALL future presidents. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@ wrote: Look, these kids were part of something very large and special within consciousness-based education. It is what their parents wanted and were hoping for them and were providing and many have sacrificed to make happen for their kids. Consciousness-based education. Did You Know That Meditating Just 15 Min a Day twice a day Could Change Your Life? You've heard of neuroplasticity, particularly in young brains? If these little shits are going to persist in screwing up their meditations and dulling the collective consciousness of the whole group with the smoke and haze of marijuana and other drugs then let them go to public education. Everyone knows the rules on drug use and meditation and why they are there. Jeesuus. Spare the rod, ruin the child. If and when the these children stop using marijuana they can come back to ideal education as better prepared students to make use of a large opportunity. Just like the adult fallen away meditators can always re-apply to meditate in the Domes with the large groups. There is quite a lot of empathy within the system to facilitate consciousness-based education. If people can't follow the simple rule about drug use for the good reasons of spiritual clarity, they should live with the consequence until they clear up in this or some other lifetime. For right now there is something much larger and much more high-minded going on here than these little shits going out to get high with drugs and dragging the community down along with them. I am entirely with Bevan on this. Why be part of a community if the community can't protect itself from such erosion as young kids using drugs. We're trying to do something here that needs to be protected. I'm sorry to be the one to break it to you Buck, kids are going to smoke dope, they are going to experiment. They are NOT going to be willing goody-goodies at all times no matter how much parents want them to. I assume you were young once? This is the bit that gives it away: It is what their parents wanted and were hoping for them and were providing and many have sacrificed to make happen for their kids Do you really think what the parents wanted is going to be the same as what the kids wanted? Sipping hot water and trudging to the dome twice a day? You guys want to get real, that sort of life is something you can choose to do when you know a bit about life and have been round the block a few times, but to try to inflict it (or any lifestyle) on your offspring is asking for trouble. I would have done it to spite you when I was 18. Especially if you called me a little shit for not being as high minded as you, you'd get psylocibin mushrooms in your hot water for that! Surely though, and I'm being serious here, if kids are smoking dope where does that leave the idea of spontaneous right action? Where does that leave the idea of coherence in collective consciousness? Where does that leave the research on drugs and TM that show people spontaneously give up drugs? If it don't work at MUM it's going to be a tough sell for the rest of the world. -Buck in the Dome --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote:
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
Just like Barry, Curtis has his secret stash of data, on the rest of us, scrupulously compiled with a wounded and fearful heart. Every time Curtis gets bent out of shape, he starts up with his, maybe red is blue, act, and determines all sorts of scientific truths about TM and Maharishi, from his crippled emotional state. He and Barry need therapy. Sorry guys - I have come across a lot of dense old men - those continuously ready to see the problem always out there, propped up by a bloated ego. And it gets really tiresome. I get the oddest picture when Barry and Curtis team up - a couple of spinster aunts. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emilymae.reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: Does meditation work to balance out the chemical makeup of one's physiology? Does it release our natural feel good chemicals within the body? Or, maintain balanced levels of serotonin, dopamine, etc. My experience with TM meditation and its associated practices is that it is a way to hijack our usual brain reward system for achievement in our lives. Maybe this should say, ...it is a way to hijack my usual brain reward system for achievement in my life, since this is your personal experience. And this was Maharishi's stated goal, fulfillment divorced from achievement. When did he say this? Do you have a quote? Was this one of the secret teachings just for teachers? Because I sure don't remember having heard him say it. Anybody else remember Maharishi saying this was his goal? If you keep mediating you cultivate the mind to trigger highly pleasurable states. It becomes very addictive. Many meditators show signs of extreme irritation if they miss a mediation once they get hooked on it just like any other addict. How many meditators show this? What percentage would you say? And how have you determined this? In what follows, you shift back and forth from statements about your personal experience to general statements as to how TM affects people in general. With regard to the latter, could you explain how you've determined that these are effects common to everyone who practices TM? (Or meditation in general, depending on which you mean, which you don't always specify.) I ask because none of what you describe resembles my own experience. So IMO mediation can become a problem like any other form of hijacking the pleasure states, meant to reward our species for doing things that promote our survival or express our creativity. I believe there is no neuronal free lunch, every pleasure state has a cost. Of course this is a highly heretical view in circles where regular meditation and more meditation are both seen as only positives. But for me the balance is trickier. I use meditation when I need some of what it does for my brain, but regular meditation just leads to me getting hooked on the mental states it produces. And for me these states do not produce my optimum functioning. They are as advertized, very charming to our minds. But they can easily lead to an end in themselves since our brains are inherently lazy and getting the quick reward is neurologically preferred. Unfortunately that does not lead to my fullest creative potential any more than hitting the slot lever again and again. Although they say that meditation is a preparation for activity, and I don't doubt that for really impulsive people it is a real benefit, for people like me who have perhaps cultivated this functioning a bit too much, it can become a real distraction. I get a lot more done with my eyes opened! This understanding is still just a work in progress. I am fascinated that some like Barry maintain that other forms of meditation do no exhibit some of what I see as downsides of TM's passive bliss states style.
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann awoelflebater@ wrote: Me: I loved being sober at MIU. It was a fantastic college experience for me and I can relate to your points. But this still reveals a real flaw in the ideal education. They still have the same solution to kids smoking pot that was popular in prep schools in the early 70's: throw the bum out. See, now the school is drug free! It is lame. Especially for a technique that claims to evolve people out of wanting to get high. And remember when we went to MIU we had the glassy eyes of expectation of wonderous things just around the corner. These students have seen what 40 years of meditation gets you: another version of your dad. Not charming, giggling, flower waving Maharishi, but big ol' Bevan-walrus and a bunch of other old timers who need help loading up their Ipod with MP3s of Charles Llyod playing his TM inspired flute songs to whales. (Yes, that is an actual thing.) They know they are not on the cusp of any breakthrough. Remember how it was for us? People in Switzerland were flying...so we were told. People talked to squirrels. (According to Jonathan Shear) Larry Domash found his lost pen magically!) They were heady times and we were on the cusp of something amazing. So it really wasn't much of a stretch for me to give up drugs. But I pushed the boundaries appropriate to my age. I did things that got kids kicked out in later years. Skinny dipping co-ed at Lake Keosauqua and the reservoir and dorm showers...and anywhere else I could get young ladies to serve up the simplest form of undress. These kids know everything. They know Maharishi banged young white girls. We thought he was a God. They just don't have the context we had. But more than that. Any school who deals with kids smoking pot by saying we can't help you get your shit and leave is lame IMO. And that is even institutions that don't sprinkle on the ideals like powdered sugar on french toast. (Use day old Challah bread) They have exposed that they are just another strict Christian school who can't handle any kid's rebellion. Our class was the first one at MIU with actual kids, not TM teachers. The class was much more indoctrinated than some of these kids. So yeah, I get that we loved our drug-free MIU. And I get it that these are the rules of the group and they SHOULD know them. As I said in an earlier post, the part of your brain that actually allow us to foresee the consequences of our actions is physically NOT developed till 26. And society expectations of them being responsible don't change that. (BTW society actually preys on this when we send young people to war. There is a reason for that.) When I was at MIU there were off-the-program students smoking pot and drinking. It had nothing to do with me and my choices. They kept it on the down-low and it was none of my business. I think Dennis Ramondi was very compassionate toward us that we were all growing and none of us was ideal anything. MIU is a buzz kill, and I wound never recommend smoking weed there. But is this is their answer to the drug problem, then they really aren't adding anything new are they? First, it was great to read some of those old names, the past incidents, the feel of the place back when we were there that you described so well just now. And while it is stereotypical to idealize 'the good old days' I feel that, in some fundamental way, they REALLY were just that. I agree with you that enough history has past that the naive idealism we all held about enlightenment and the sidhis and just the newness of the place seems but a pipe dream now. However, it does not take away from our perceived reality at the time and I remember my years at MIU with great affection. It was EXCITING, there seemed to be a limitless future available to all of us. And undoubtedly there are far more interesting and creative ways to deal with rule-breakers at MUM. You could create something revealing, and interesting and understandable for other students there by possibly discussing the need, the desire to smoke drugs while pursuing an education steeped in spirituality and self development through meditation - you could make it a mini course, an interactive area of study headed by the students themselves. There are infinite ways to approach the 'problem' of drug taking there by turning it into another learning experience. You just need to be open minded, creative and be prepared to be surprised. But MUM appears, if nothing else, steeped in dogma. A dogma that will be doomed to moulder and eventually crumble with age and obsolescence. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: -- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@... wrote: And remember when we went to MIU we had the glassy eyes of expectation of wonderous things just around the corner. These students have seen what 40 years of meditation gets you: another version of your dad. Not charming, giggling, flower waving Maharishi, but big ol' Bevan-walrus and a bunch of other old timers who need help loading up their Ipod with MP3s of Charles Llyod playing his TM inspired flute songs to whales. (Yes, that is an actual thing.) We have a busker singing like a hog being slaughtered: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5mc2T8g68M and we have a real musician, in this case the fellow Curtis tries to ridicule, Charles Lloyd (that's how his name is spelled), with his own unique sound on the saxophone: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XLWO1fA_TQ Peanuts and Pineapples I know, yet I'm confident the viewers are able to make their own decisions.
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
Without anything specific to refute or correct the old personal attacks again... Check out Judy's response which has many good points of challenge for me to think about. What have you accomplished here other than to appear like a dick? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@... no_reply@... wrote: Just like Barry, Curtis has his secret stash of data, on the rest of us, scrupulously compiled with a wounded and fearful heart. Every time Curtis gets bent out of shape, he starts up with his, maybe red is blue, act, and determines all sorts of scientific truths about TM and Maharishi, from his crippled emotional state. He and Barry need therapy. Sorry guys - I have come across a lot of dense old men - those continuously ready to see the problem always out there, propped up by a bloated ego. And it gets really tiresome. I get the oddest picture when Barry and Curtis team up - a couple of spinster aunts. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emilymae.reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: Does meditation work to balance out the chemical makeup of one's physiology? Does it release our natural feel good chemicals within the body? Or, maintain balanced levels of serotonin, dopamine, etc. My experience with TM meditation and its associated practices is that it is a way to hijack our usual brain reward system for achievement in our lives. Maybe this should say, ...it is a way to hijack my usual brain reward system for achievement in my life, since this is your personal experience. And this was Maharishi's stated goal, fulfillment divorced from achievement. When did he say this? Do you have a quote? Was this one of the secret teachings just for teachers? Because I sure don't remember having heard him say it. Anybody else remember Maharishi saying this was his goal? If you keep mediating you cultivate the mind to trigger highly pleasurable states. It becomes very addictive. Many meditators show signs of extreme irritation if they miss a mediation once they get hooked on it just like any other addict. How many meditators show this? What percentage would you say? And how have you determined this? In what follows, you shift back and forth from statements about your personal experience to general statements as to how TM affects people in general. With regard to the latter, could you explain how you've determined that these are effects common to everyone who practices TM? (Or meditation in general, depending on which you mean, which you don't always specify.) I ask because none of what you describe resembles my own experience. So IMO mediation can become a problem like any other form of hijacking the pleasure states, meant to reward our species for doing things that promote our survival or express our creativity. I believe there is no neuronal free lunch, every pleasure state has a cost. Of course this is a highly heretical view in circles where regular meditation and more meditation are both seen as only positives. But for me the balance is trickier. I use meditation when I need some of what it does for my brain, but regular meditation just leads to me getting hooked on the mental states it produces. And for me these states do not produce my optimum functioning. They are as advertized, very charming to our minds. But they can easily lead to an end in themselves since our brains are inherently lazy and getting the quick reward is neurologically preferred. Unfortunately that does not lead to my fullest creative potential any more than hitting the slot lever again and again. Although they say that meditation is a preparation for activity, and I don't doubt that for really impulsive people it is a real benefit, for people like me who have perhaps cultivated this functioning a bit too much, it can become a real distraction. I get a lot more done with my eyes opened! This understanding is still just a work in progress. I am fascinated that some like Barry maintain that other forms of meditation do no exhibit some of what I see as downsides of TM's passive bliss states style.
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@... wrote: This understanding is still just a work in progress. As is mine. I am fascinated that some like Barry maintain that other forms of meditation do no exhibit some of what I see as downsides of TM's passive bliss states style. And I do so maintain. I've been on courses with meditators practicing more focused forms of meditation (and some less focused, in the sense that when it comes to 'effortlessness' there isn't even a mantra or other object of focus to 'come back to') and never seen any of the spaced-outednessitude we came to take for granted on TM rounding courses. I am still a believer -- when it comes to meditation -- that a technique that is supposed to make you more focused and coherent and here and now in the moment should do that when you're doing a LOT of it. That has been my experience on some of the retreats I've been on. On one there was a legitimate emergency, a canyon fire (which travel at the speed of 60mph) was reported only a few miles from where we were meditating 8-12 hours a day. No asanas, no round- ing, just meditating. No one had the least bit of problem with pulling it together and getting ready to leave if the winds had shifted and aimed the fire in our direction (they didn't). When it became obvious that we were not in the fire path, several of us volunteered to drive over to the rescue center and volunteer, going about helping those who were not so fortunate. Can you imagine TM meditators doing this if it had happened on a course near them?
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: This understanding is still just a work in progress. As is mine. I am fascinated that some like Barry maintain that other forms of meditation do no exhibit some of what I see as downsides of TM's passive bliss states style. And I do so maintain. I've been on courses with meditators practicing more focused forms of meditation (and some less focused, in the sense that when it comes to 'effortlessness' there isn't even a mantra or other object of focus to 'come back to') and never seen any of the spaced-outednessitude we came to take for granted on TM rounding courses. I am still a believer -- when it comes to meditation -- that a technique that is supposed to make you more focused and coherent and here and now in the moment should do that when you're doing a LOT of it. That has been my experience on some of the retreats I've been on. On one there was a legitimate emergency, a canyon fire (which travel at the speed of 60mph) was reported only a few miles from where we were meditating 8-12 hours a day. No asanas, no round- ing, just meditating. No one had the least bit of problem with pulling it together and getting ready to leave if the winds had shifted and aimed the fire in our direction (they didn't). When it became obvious that we were not in the fire path, several of us volunteered to drive over to the rescue center and volunteer, going about helping those who were not so fortunate. Can you imagine TM meditators doing this if it had happened on a course near them? Ah, it's academic as the profound field of coherence would keep the flames away.
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emilymae.reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: Does meditation work to balance out the chemical makeup of one's physiology? Does it release our natural feel good chemicals within the body? Or, maintain balanced levels of serotonin, dopamine, etc. My experience with TM meditation and its associated practices is that it is a way to hijack our usual brain reward system for achievement in our lives. Maybe this should say, ...it is a way to hijack my usual brain reward system for achievement in my life, since this is your personal experience. I believe your brain and mine are similar in this regard. If you transcend into what Maharishi called bliss consciousness you are giving your brain such a high reward it forgets everything else. This is just Maharishi's teaching. But you raise an interesting point that perhaps there is a difference between the kind of brain that would go into a sidhaland or Purusha and someone who has integrated TM into their life the way you have. And this was Maharishi's stated goal, fulfillment divorced from achievement. When did he say this? Do you have a quote? Was this one of the secret teachings just for teachers? Because I sure don't remember having heard him say it. It is a core part of his message I don't know how you missed it. We go to bliss consciousness and establish ourselves in that to give us complete fulfillment which bypasses the whole action for achievement for fulfillment cycle. It is actually taught in 3 days checking. Where I differ with his teaching is that he thinks this automatically makes people better at and more dynamic in activity and I don't. Anybody else remember Maharishi saying this was his goal? If you keep mediating you cultivate the mind to trigger highly pleasurable states. It becomes very addictive. Many meditators show signs of extreme irritation if they miss a mediation once they get hooked on it just like any other addict. How many meditators show this? What percentage would you say? And how have you determined this? I lived with thousands of meditators while in the movement. I have seen many meditators reactions to missing meditation. Discussed many with my own TM students. I have discussed the experiences of dozens of people who quit TM as I did. As well as some who have gone back and forth as I have. But your question is valid. And I don't have an answer for you, I am just presenting my view and believe it does not only apply to me. Skip afternoon meditation for a week and see how tired you get around meditation time. When you are conditioned to get this state your brains begins to need it. After a week or so off TM you mind recovers and you no longer feel tired in the afternoon. When I get addicted to TM I crave the state. YMMV. In what follows, you shift back and forth from statements about your personal experience to general statements as to how TM affects people in general. With regard to the latter, could you explain how you've determined that these are effects common to everyone who practices TM? (Or meditation in general, depending on which you mean, which you don't always specify.) This is my current working model of understanding. I don't doubt that others will see it differently. I believe that we all share a similar physiology. Your criticism could equally apply to anyone making any claim about what meditation does for people. I am trying to explain what I believe is the underlying mechanism in the brain functioning. It is my alternative model to Maharishi's. I ask because none of what you describe resembles my own experience. I don't know how many times you have gone off and on TM. This insight came to me after I had done that a few times. But your general question of what part of this is just personal seems valid. That is true of most inductive reasoning. How man examples are enough? But people may have completely different experiences with TM just as all brains don't react to cocaine the same. Some people dive in and become addicts and some say that was annoying. I appreciate your points though and will give them more thought. I am just trying to figure this out and this is what I have so far. So IMO mediation can become a problem like any other form of hijacking the pleasure states, meant to reward our species for doing things that promote our survival or express our creativity. I believe there is no neuronal free lunch, every pleasure state has a cost. Of course this is a highly heretical view in circles where regular meditation and more meditation are both seen as only positives. But for me the balance is trickier. I use meditation when I need some of what it
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann awoelflebater@... wrote: You expressed the other ways they could have handled this situation really well Ann. It is a very positive way to look at the alternatives to excommunication. Your options treated him like a valuable resource rather then something expendable. I look back at my time at MIU really fondly. Remember walking back to the frats at night and seeing thousands of fireflies in the darkness almost merge at the horizon with all those big sky stars? Did you and Lenny used to walk around the reservoir? I have so many great memories cross country skiing around it in the Winter and running around it in the Summer. The earth smelled good to me, including the bovine contributions. The potent combination of being so young and idealistic and being part of such a cause albeit full of the naivete of solving all the worlds problems was a great bridge of idealism into adult life. Once I shook some of the bullshit out of my boots that is! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann awoelflebater@ wrote: Me: I loved being sober at MIU. It was a fantastic college experience for me and I can relate to your points. But this still reveals a real flaw in the ideal education. They still have the same solution to kids smoking pot that was popular in prep schools in the early 70's: throw the bum out. See, now the school is drug free! It is lame. Especially for a technique that claims to evolve people out of wanting to get high. And remember when we went to MIU we had the glassy eyes of expectation of wonderous things just around the corner. These students have seen what 40 years of meditation gets you: another version of your dad. Not charming, giggling, flower waving Maharishi, but big ol' Bevan-walrus and a bunch of other old timers who need help loading up their Ipod with MP3s of Charles Llyod playing his TM inspired flute songs to whales. (Yes, that is an actual thing.) They know they are not on the cusp of any breakthrough. Remember how it was for us? People in Switzerland were flying...so we were told. People talked to squirrels. (According to Jonathan Shear) Larry Domash found his lost pen magically!) They were heady times and we were on the cusp of something amazing. So it really wasn't much of a stretch for me to give up drugs. But I pushed the boundaries appropriate to my age. I did things that got kids kicked out in later years. Skinny dipping co-ed at Lake Keosauqua and the reservoir and dorm showers...and anywhere else I could get young ladies to serve up the simplest form of undress. These kids know everything. They know Maharishi banged young white girls. We thought he was a God. They just don't have the context we had. But more than that. Any school who deals with kids smoking pot by saying we can't help you get your shit and leave is lame IMO. And that is even institutions that don't sprinkle on the ideals like powdered sugar on french toast. (Use day old Challah bread) They have exposed that they are just another strict Christian school who can't handle any kid's rebellion. Our class was the first one at MIU with actual kids, not TM teachers. The class was much more indoctrinated than some of these kids. So yeah, I get that we loved our drug-free MIU. And I get it that these are the rules of the group and they SHOULD know them. As I said in an earlier post, the part of your brain that actually allow us to foresee the consequences of our actions is physically NOT developed till 26. And society expectations of them being responsible don't change that. (BTW society actually preys on this when we send young people to war. There is a reason for that.) When I was at MIU there were off-the-program students smoking pot and drinking. It had nothing to do with me and my choices. They kept it on the down-low and it was none of my business. I think Dennis Ramondi was very compassionate toward us that we were all growing and none of us was ideal anything. MIU is a buzz kill, and I wound never recommend smoking weed there. But is this is their answer to the drug problem, then they really aren't adding anything new are they? First, it was great to read some of those old names, the past incidents, the feel of the place back when we were there that you described so well just now. And while it is stereotypical to idealize 'the good old days' I feel that, in some fundamental way, they REALLY were just that. I agree with you that enough history has past that the naive idealism we all held about enlightenment and the sidhis and just the newness of the place seems but a pipe dream now. However, it does not take away from our perceived reality
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
Thanks for posting that video of me Nabbie, great song. I wasn't putting Charles Lloyd down, I love the guy. But he did do a series or music to a killer whale he was rehabilitating that he played for us at MIU. It is actually a beautiful story of human whale interaction. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: And remember when we went to MIU we had the glassy eyes of expectation of wonderous things just around the corner. These students have seen what 40 years of meditation gets you: another version of your dad. Not charming, giggling, flower waving Maharishi, but big ol' Bevan-walrus and a bunch of other old timers who need help loading up their Ipod with MP3s of Charles Llyod playing his TM inspired flute songs to whales. (Yes, that is an actual thing.) We have a busker singing like a hog being slaughtered: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5mc2T8g68M and we have a real musician, in this case the fellow Curtis tries to ridicule, Charles Lloyd (that's how his name is spelled), with his own unique sound on the saxophone: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XLWO1fA_TQ Peanuts and Pineapples I know, yet I'm confident the viewers are able to make their own decisions.
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: This understanding is still just a work in progress. As is mine. I am fascinated that some like Barry maintain that other forms of meditation do no exhibit some of what I see as downsides of TM's passive bliss states style. And I do so maintain. I've been on courses with meditators practicing more focused forms of meditation (and some less focused, in the sense that when it comes to 'effortlessness' there isn't even a mantra or other object of focus to 'come back to') and never seen any of the spaced-outednessitude we came to take for granted on TM rounding courses. I am still a believer -- when it comes to meditation -- that a technique that is supposed to make you more focused and coherent and here and now in the moment should do that when you're doing a LOT of it. That has been my experience on some of the retreats I've been on. On one there was a legitimate emergency, a canyon fire (which travel at the speed of 60mph) was reported only a few miles from where we were meditating 8-12 hours a day. No asanas, no round- ing, just meditating. No one had the least bit of problem with pulling it together and getting ready to leave if the winds had shifted and aimed the fire in our direction (they didn't). When it became obvious that we were not in the fire path, several of us volunteered to drive over to the rescue center and volunteer, going about helping those who were not so fortunate. Can you imagine TM meditators doing this if it had happened on a course near them? Ah, it's academic as the profound field of coherence would keep the flames away. Didn't the San Jacinto TM facility burn down in a canyon fire? I seem to remember hearing that it did.
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
Oh you cute little weasel, you - You're off spinning your BS, and when I call you on it, I'm a dick? OK, Curtis, we'll play this, according to Curtis logic: I just heard that red lights NOW MEAN GO. Really, its true because I said it is, and I have experience with traffic lights, and if you propose a reason that I may be pulling this out of my butt, it means you are attacking me personally. I'm sorry, Curtis, but I overwhelmingly favor reality. Sincerely, Your Dick --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@... wrote: Without anything specific to refute or correct the old personal attacks again... Check out Judy's response which has many good points of challenge for me to think about. What have you accomplished here other than to appear like a dick? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: Just like Barry, Curtis has his secret stash of data, on the rest of us, scrupulously compiled with a wounded and fearful heart. Every time Curtis gets bent out of shape, he starts up with his, maybe red is blue, act, and determines all sorts of scientific truths about TM and Maharishi, from his crippled emotional state. He and Barry need therapy. Sorry guys - I have come across a lot of dense old men - those continuously ready to see the problem always out there, propped up by a bloated ego. And it gets really tiresome. I get the oddest picture when Barry and Curtis team up - a couple of spinster aunts. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emilymae.reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: Does meditation work to balance out the chemical makeup of one's physiology? Does it release our natural feel good chemicals within the body? Or, maintain balanced levels of serotonin, dopamine, etc. My experience with TM meditation and its associated practices is that it is a way to hijack our usual brain reward system for achievement in our lives. Maybe this should say, ...it is a way to hijack my usual brain reward system for achievement in my life, since this is your personal experience. And this was Maharishi's stated goal, fulfillment divorced from achievement. When did he say this? Do you have a quote? Was this one of the secret teachings just for teachers? Because I sure don't remember having heard him say it. Anybody else remember Maharishi saying this was his goal? If you keep mediating you cultivate the mind to trigger highly pleasurable states. It becomes very addictive. Many meditators show signs of extreme irritation if they miss a mediation once they get hooked on it just like any other addict. How many meditators show this? What percentage would you say? And how have you determined this? In what follows, you shift back and forth from statements about your personal experience to general statements as to how TM affects people in general. With regard to the latter, could you explain how you've determined that these are effects common to everyone who practices TM? (Or meditation in general, depending on which you mean, which you don't always specify.) I ask because none of what you describe resembles my own experience. So IMO mediation can become a problem like any other form of hijacking the pleasure states, meant to reward our species for doing things that promote our survival or express our creativity. I believe there is no neuronal free lunch, every pleasure state has a cost. Of course this is a highly heretical view in circles where regular meditation and more meditation are both seen as only positives. But for me the balance is trickier. I use meditation when I need some of what it does for my brain, but regular meditation just leads to me getting hooked on the mental states it produces. And for me these states do not produce my optimum functioning. They are as advertized, very charming to our minds. But they can easily lead to an end in themselves since our brains are inherently lazy and getting the quick reward is neurologically preferred. Unfortunately that does not lead to my fullest creative potential any more than hitting the slot lever again and again. Although they say that meditation is a preparation for activity, and I don't doubt that for really impulsive people it is a real benefit, for people like me who have perhaps cultivated this functioning a bit too much, it can become a real distraction. I get a lot more done with my eyes opened! This understanding is still just a work in progress. I am fascinated that some like Barry
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: This understanding is still just a work in progress. As is mine. I am fascinated that some like Barry maintain that other forms of meditation do no exhibit some of what I see as downsides of TM's passive bliss states style. And I do so maintain. I've been on courses with meditators practicing more focused forms of meditation (and some less focused, in the sense that when it comes to 'effortlessness' there isn't even a mantra or other object of focus to 'come back to') and never seen any of the spaced-outednessitude we came to take for granted on TM rounding courses. I am still a believer -- when it comes to meditation -- that a technique that is supposed to make you more focused and coherent and here and now in the moment should do that when you're doing a LOT of it. That has been my experience on some of the retreats I've been on. On one there was a legitimate emergency, a canyon fire (which travel at the speed of 60mph) was reported only a few miles from where we were meditating 8-12 hours a day. No asanas, no round- ing, just meditating. No one had the least bit of problem with pulling it together and getting ready to leave if the winds had shifted and aimed the fire in our direction (they didn't). When it became obvious that we were not in the fire path, several of us volunteered to drive over to the rescue center and volunteer, going about helping those who were not so fortunate. Can you imagine TM meditators doing this if it had happened on a course near them? Ah, it's academic as the profound field of coherence would keep the flames away. Didn't the San Jacinto TM facility burn down in a canyon fire? I seem to remember hearing that it did. Now you see why your house should face east!
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@... no_reply@... wrote: Oh you cute little weasel, you - You're off spinning your BS, and when I call you on it, I'm a dick? OK, Curtis, we'll play this, according to Curtis logic: I just heard that red lights NOW MEAN GO. Really, its true because I said it is, and I have experience with traffic lights, and if you propose a reason that I may be pulling this out of my butt, it means you are attacking me personally. I'm sorry, Curtis, but I overwhelmingly favor reality. Sincerely, Your Dick OK, I'm a casual observer in this one who has just read the posts concerned and can't see any BS from Curtis. Just an opinion that you obviously disaproved of. You do this a lot when someone takes a different line to the one you have chosen. It makes me think your enlightenment is a bit on the fragile side, it's too easy to bruise your ego and send you over the top. It'd be OK if you kept to the point but you don't. Where is this pristine emptiness of which you speak? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Without anything specific to refute or correct the old personal attacks again... Check out Judy's response which has many good points of challenge for me to think about. What have you accomplished here other than to appear like a dick? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: Just like Barry, Curtis has his secret stash of data, on the rest of us, scrupulously compiled with a wounded and fearful heart. Every time Curtis gets bent out of shape, he starts up with his, maybe red is blue, act, and determines all sorts of scientific truths about TM and Maharishi, from his crippled emotional state. He and Barry need therapy. Sorry guys - I have come across a lot of dense old men - those continuously ready to see the problem always out there, propped up by a bloated ego. And it gets really tiresome. I get the oddest picture when Barry and Curtis team up - a couple of spinster aunts. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emilymae.reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: Does meditation work to balance out the chemical makeup of one's physiology? Does it release our natural feel good chemicals within the body? Or, maintain balanced levels of serotonin, dopamine, etc. My experience with TM meditation and its associated practices is that it is a way to hijack our usual brain reward system for achievement in our lives. Maybe this should say, ...it is a way to hijack my usual brain reward system for achievement in my life, since this is your personal experience. And this was Maharishi's stated goal, fulfillment divorced from achievement. When did he say this? Do you have a quote? Was this one of the secret teachings just for teachers? Because I sure don't remember having heard him say it. Anybody else remember Maharishi saying this was his goal? If you keep mediating you cultivate the mind to trigger highly pleasurable states. It becomes very addictive. Many meditators show signs of extreme irritation if they miss a mediation once they get hooked on it just like any other addict. How many meditators show this? What percentage would you say? And how have you determined this? In what follows, you shift back and forth from statements about your personal experience to general statements as to how TM affects people in general. With regard to the latter, could you explain how you've determined that these are effects common to everyone who practices TM? (Or meditation in general, depending on which you mean, which you don't always specify.) I ask because none of what you describe resembles my own experience. So IMO mediation can become a problem like any other form of hijacking the pleasure states, meant to reward our species for doing things that promote our survival or express our creativity. I believe there is no neuronal free lunch, every pleasure state has a cost. Of course this is a highly heretical view in circles where regular meditation and more meditation are both seen as only positives. But for me the balance is trickier. I use meditation when I need some of what it does for my brain, but regular meditation just leads to me getting hooked on the mental states it produces. And for me these states do not produce my optimum functioning. They are as advertized, very charming to our minds. But they can easily lead to an end in
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: Didn't the San Jacinto TM facility burn down in a canyon fire? I seem to remember hearing that it did. LOL!!! Yes, it did -- *36* years ago!! About seven years *after* you left TM...and as Barry The Great is so proud of stating, *Never Looked Back* - How can you just lie to yourself like that? To have this macho image of yourself, who, 007-like, silently and swiftly, Left TM Behind? I would think you'd be embarrassed about it. Don't you know the rest of us see right through the posturing? On the one hand, Big Barry, who LEFT-AND-NEVER-LOOKED-BACK, while the reality is you've got a permanently twisted neck from doing just that. Anyway, that is why you are a source of amazement to so many here, Barry. Your insecurities trump even your sense of personal shame.
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
The only emotion uglier in a man than in a woman is jealousy. -- attributed to Oscar Wilde --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@... no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: Didn't the San Jacinto TM facility burn down in a canyon fire? I seem to remember hearing that it did. LOL!!! Yes, it did -- *36* years ago!! About seven years *after* you left TM...and as Barry The Great is so proud of stating, *Never Looked Back* - How can you just lie to yourself like that? To have this macho image of yourself, who, 007-like, silently and swiftly, Left TM Behind? I would think you'd be embarrassed about it. Don't you know the rest of us see right through the posturing? On the one hand, Big Barry, who LEFT-AND-NEVER-LOOKED- BACK, while the reality is you've got a permanently twisted neck from doing just that. Anyway, that is why you are a source of amazement to so many here, Barry. Your insecurities trump even your sense of personal shame.
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
This is what Curtis said, and Judy challenged: And this was Maharishi's stated goal, fulfillment divorced from achievement. 'nuff said. I'm quite surprised I had to point it out to you. Also, enlightened people, contrary to a lot of beliefs, don't act like pleasant eunuchs. All of them I have met have pretty normal personalities. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: Oh you cute little weasel, you - You're off spinning your BS, and when I call you on it, I'm a dick? OK, Curtis, we'll play this, according to Curtis logic: I just heard that red lights NOW MEAN GO. Really, its true because I said it is, and I have experience with traffic lights, and if you propose a reason that I may be pulling this out of my butt, it means you are attacking me personally. I'm sorry, Curtis, but I overwhelmingly favor reality. Sincerely, Your Dick OK, I'm a casual observer in this one who has just read the posts concerned and can't see any BS from Curtis. Just an opinion that you obviously disaproved of. You do this a lot when someone takes a different line to the one you have chosen. It makes me think your enlightenment is a bit on the fragile side, it's too easy to bruise your ego and send you over the top. It'd be OK if you kept to the point but you don't. Where is this pristine emptiness of which you speak? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Without anything specific to refute or correct the old personal attacks again... Check out Judy's response which has many good points of challenge for me to think about. What have you accomplished here other than to appear like a dick? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: Just like Barry, Curtis has his secret stash of data, on the rest of us, scrupulously compiled with a wounded and fearful heart. Every time Curtis gets bent out of shape, he starts up with his, maybe red is blue, act, and determines all sorts of scientific truths about TM and Maharishi, from his crippled emotional state. He and Barry need therapy. Sorry guys - I have come across a lot of dense old men - those continuously ready to see the problem always out there, propped up by a bloated ego. And it gets really tiresome. I get the oddest picture when Barry and Curtis team up - a couple of spinster aunts. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emilymae.reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: Does meditation work to balance out the chemical makeup of one's physiology? Does it release our natural feel good chemicals within the body? Or, maintain balanced levels of serotonin, dopamine, etc. My experience with TM meditation and its associated practices is that it is a way to hijack our usual brain reward system for achievement in our lives. Maybe this should say, ...it is a way to hijack my usual brain reward system for achievement in my life, since this is your personal experience. And this was Maharishi's stated goal, fulfillment divorced from achievement. When did he say this? Do you have a quote? Was this one of the secret teachings just for teachers? Because I sure don't remember having heard him say it. Anybody else remember Maharishi saying this was his goal? If you keep mediating you cultivate the mind to trigger highly pleasurable states. It becomes very addictive. Many meditators show signs of extreme irritation if they miss a mediation once they get hooked on it just like any other addict. How many meditators show this? What percentage would you say? And how have you determined this? In what follows, you shift back and forth from statements about your personal experience to general statements as to how TM affects people in general. With regard to the latter, could you explain how you've determined that these are effects common to everyone who practices TM? (Or meditation in general, depending on which you mean, which you don't always specify.) I ask because none of what you describe resembles my own experience. So IMO mediation can become a problem like any other form of hijacking the pleasure states, meant to reward our species for doing things that promote our survival or express our creativity. I believe there is no neuronal free lunch, every pleasure state has a cost.
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
I choose my friends for their good looks, my acquaintances for their good characters, and my enemies for their intellects. A man cannot be too careful in the choice of his enemies. -- attributed to Oscar Wilde --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: The only emotion uglier in a man than in a woman is jealousy. -- attributed to Oscar Wilde --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: Didn't the San Jacinto TM facility burn down in a canyon fire? I seem to remember hearing that it did. LOL!!! Yes, it did -- *36* years ago!! About seven years *after* you left TM...and as Barry The Great is so proud of stating, *Never Looked Back* - How can you just lie to yourself like that? To have this macho image of yourself, who, 007-like, silently and swiftly, Left TM Behind? I would think you'd be embarrassed about it. Don't you know the rest of us see right through the posturing? On the one hand, Big Barry, who LEFT-AND-NEVER-LOOKED- BACK, while the reality is you've got a permanently twisted neck from doing just that. Anyway, that is why you are a source of amazement to so many here, Barry. Your insecurities trump even your sense of personal shame.
[FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids get no punishment.
-- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@... no_reply@... wrote: Oh you cute little weasel, you - You're off spinning your BS, and when I call you on it, I'm a dick? OK, Curtis, we'll play this, according to Curtis logic: I just heard that red lights NOW MEAN GO. Really, its true because I said it is, and I have experience with traffic lights, and if you propose a reason that I may be pulling this out of my butt, it means you are attacking me personally. Jim attacking me personally in his post: with a wounded and fearful heart. from his crippled emotional state. He and Barry need therapy dense old men propped up by a bloated ego a couple of spinster aunts All because I expressed my opinion about a meditation practice that I taught, and still practice. You weren't calling me on anything Jim, you were name calling. Judy was challenging my view respectfully while making some of her own POV known. Her post is the contrast. This is a pattern with you Jim. We have been down this road so many times before. You are one of the least tolerant people of opposing viewpoints on TM on the board. And the most emotionally reactive. And I'll bet that you can't articulate my points to demonstrate that you even understood what I wrote before you went into over-reaction, kill-the-messenger mode. I'm sorry, Curtis, but I overwhelmingly favor reality. Sincerely, Your Dick --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Without anything specific to refute or correct the old personal attacks again... Check out Judy's response which has many good points of challenge for me to think about. What have you accomplished here other than to appear like a dick? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ no_reply@ wrote: Just like Barry, Curtis has his secret stash of data, on the rest of us, scrupulously compiled with a wounded and fearful heart. Every time Curtis gets bent out of shape, he starts up with his, maybe red is blue, act, and determines all sorts of scientific truths about TM and Maharishi, from his crippled emotional state. He and Barry need therapy. Sorry guys - I have come across a lot of dense old men - those continuously ready to see the problem always out there, propped up by a bloated ego. And it gets really tiresome. I get the oddest picture when Barry and Curtis team up - a couple of spinster aunts. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emilymae.reyn emilymae.reyn@ wrote: Does meditation work to balance out the chemical makeup of one's physiology? Does it release our natural feel good chemicals within the body? Or, maintain balanced levels of serotonin, dopamine, etc. My experience with TM meditation and its associated practices is that it is a way to hijack our usual brain reward system for achievement in our lives. Maybe this should say, ...it is a way to hijack my usual brain reward system for achievement in my life, since this is your personal experience. And this was Maharishi's stated goal, fulfillment divorced from achievement. When did he say this? Do you have a quote? Was this one of the secret teachings just for teachers? Because I sure don't remember having heard him say it. Anybody else remember Maharishi saying this was his goal? If you keep mediating you cultivate the mind to trigger highly pleasurable states. It becomes very addictive. Many meditators show signs of extreme irritation if they miss a mediation once they get hooked on it just like any other addict. How many meditators show this? What percentage would you say? And how have you determined this? In what follows, you shift back and forth from statements about your personal experience to general statements as to how TM affects people in general. With regard to the latter, could you explain how you've determined that these are effects common to everyone who practices TM? (Or meditation in general, depending on which you mean, which you don't always specify.) I ask because none of what you describe resembles my own experience. So IMO mediation can become a problem like any other form of hijacking the pleasure states, meant to reward our species for doing things that promote our survival or express our creativity. I believe there is no neuronal free lunch, every pleasure state has a cost. Of course this is a highly heretical view in circles where regular meditation and more meditation are both seen as only positives. But
