[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_esq@... wrote: Hey, all According to Mantreshwar, an ancient jyotish author, my birth chart has a yoga for being a sanyasi, practicing a form of Buddhism. As a practicing TM meditator, I was at first puzzled by this observation. However, after pondering the description of this yoga, I became appreciative of the author's wisdom and perception. Here's why: In many of his commentaries MMY shows deep respect for the Lord Buddha. MMY states, nevertheless, that the Buddha's teachings have been misunderstood. MMY states that TM and its tradition have the correct interpretation of the Buddha's teachings, as stated in MMY's commentary to the Gita. It appears that Mantreshwar, if he were alive today, would consider TM as a form of Buddhist practice. Regards, John R. That's an interesting comment John. I have seen Maharishi in glorious states of Bliss many times, but His bliss on Buddha Yayanti, May 1982 on a boat on the river Rhine, was astonishing. He gave a loving lecture, flowing in Bliss, on Lord Buddha with an a senior Hindu Pundit present; Punditji, see the full Moon, the blessing of the Buddha ! Maharishi's respect and love of The Buddha was total; complete. Of all religions; Esoteric Buddhism is closest to authtentic religion in the world today - - Mr. Benjamin Creme It is said that The Buddha gave enlightenment to 500 people. I think we will do better. His Divine Holiness Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, Buddha Yayanti, river Rhine, 1982.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
on 6/28/05 12:45 AM, TurquoiseB at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Agreed. Concepts are useful tools. I see arguing over who invented/discovered the concept as a little fruitless unless you're working on your doctoral dissertation. Then by all means split the split of the split of the split of the hair. Barber school doctorate? Hari hari. Is Ron the Barber a professor there? Ron the barber. Now there's a flash from the past. What course was Ron the barber on? Mallorca-Fiuggi? I think he was at Estes Park, where I was, but then he hung around International for years, cutting hair. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think your one-up-manship is perfect, because it is who you are, its your nature -- to see as far as you can see. Cool, I can live with that :-) Thanks again! Very tasty with fava beans and a nice chianti. doesn't this qualify as trascendentally lurid prose? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think your one-up-manship is perfect, because it is who you are, its your nature -- to see as far as you can see. Cool, I can live with that :-) Thanks again! Very tasty with fava beans and a nice chianti. No need to lecter us on that. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think your one-up-manship is perfect, because it is who you are, its your nature -- to see as far as you can see. Cool, I can live with that :-) Thanks again! Very tasty with fava beans and a nice chianti. I don't know, you always struck me more as a talker than a liver. But as my grandfather from the old country used to say, doncha to me hana no bull. But that was after he fell and hit his head on the clear ice. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
On Jun 27, 2005, at 1:14 AM, John wrote: It appears that Mantreshwar, if he were alive today, would consider TM as a form of Buddhist practice. If he were he would be wrong. TM does not teach the four noble truths or bodhichitta, therefore it would not qualify :-) Since it has not created any Buddhas it could not be considered a path to enlightenment--after all it has no way for the accumulations necessary. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 27, 2005, at 1:14 AM, John wrote: It appears that Mantreshwar, if he were alive today, would consider TM as a form of Buddhist practice. If he were he would be wrong. TM does not teach the four noble truths or bodhichitta, therefore it would not qualify :-) Since it has not created any Buddhas it could not be considered a path to enlightenment--after all it has no way for the accumulations necessary. What accumulations are those? Is Zen a non-buddhist technique? BTW, I was wrong. The *minimum* time of continuously experience witnessing in order to be counted in the category long-term witnessing by the MUM researchers is one year. The longest period of 24/7 witnessing of any subjects they have interviewed and measured is 12 years --self-reported of course as they don't hook someone up to EEG continuously 24/7 for 12 years. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 27, 2005, at 1:14 AM, John wrote: It appears that Mantreshwar, if he were alive today, would consider TM as a form of Buddhist practice. If he were he would be wrong. TM does not teach the four noble truths or bodhichitta, therefore it would not qualify :-) Since it has not created any Buddhas This is not true. Bevin the Buddha. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
On Jun 27, 2005, at 7:46 AM, sparaig wrote: What accumulations are those? Is Zen a non-buddhist technique? The accumulations of a Buddha, merit and wisdom. Re: Zen, go to Google, put in the words 'Zen Buddhism' and click search. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
Well, considering that Gautama was a prince in Vedic kingdom, trained by Brahmin priests and who learned Sanskrit and the Vedas in depth, it is not surprising that what he taught (or rather what his disciples taught) was a form of Vedic knowledge. It is like the difference between Catholicism and the later Protestantismnot much difference really. Both Christianity. In fact, Hindus and Vedic scholars do not consider Buddhism as outside of the Vedic tradition. Just yet another stream and interpretation of it. The name of Budda himself is Vedic, meaning 'enlightened intellect' (Unity Consciousness), as are all his language in his teachings: Boddhisatwa, DharmaChakra, Anatman vs Atman etc. Buddhism is a form of Vedic knowledge where some of the knowledge got lost. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey, all According to Mantreshwar, an ancient jyotish author, my birth chart has a yoga for being a sanyasi, practicing a form of Buddhism. As a practicing TM meditator, I was at first puzzled by this observation. However, after pondering the description of this yoga, I became appreciative of the author's wisdom and perception. Here's why: In many of his commentaries MMY shows deep respect for the Lord Buddha. MMY states, nevertheless, that the Buddha's teachings have been misunderstood. MMY states that TM and its tradition have the correct interpretation of the Buddha's teachings, as stated in MMY's commentary to the Gita. It appears that Mantreshwar, if he were alive today, would consider TM as a form of Buddhist practice. Regards, John R. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, lurkernomore20002000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anyone care to join in a discussion with some Buddhists, pseudo- Bhuddists, and agnostics? The agnostics/atheists are the only rude ones. The Buddhists are nice. I think I bit off more than I could chew though :-) C'mon Bob, Dr. Pete, Akasha and you other guys, help me out here. Naysayers and yaysayers all the better. Calling in all that goodwill you accumulated eh? lurk To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
On Jun 27, 2005, at 8:23 AM, off_world_beings wrote: This is not true. Bevin the Buddha. If you see him by the road, swerve. ...but you might want to make sure you are in a Hummer first :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
On Jun 27, 2005, at 8:42 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: However, once he was safely dead, they had a change of heart and claimed that the same guy they'd been demonizing had miraculously become an incarnation of Vishnu. Also Shiva depending on who you talk to. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
It appears that Mantreshwar, if he were alive today, would consider TM as a form of Buddhist practice.Regards,John R. -But if you're not a Buddhist you can't rightly say though. Moreover, there is not just one form of Buddhist meditation. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 27, 2005, at 7:46 AM, sparaig wrote: What accumulations are those? Is Zen a non-buddhist technique? The accumulations of a Buddha, merit and wisdom. Re: Zen, go to Google, put in the words 'Zen Buddhism' and click search. You have no idea what accumulations of merit and wisdom the long-term witnessing folk show. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 27, 2005, at 1:14 AM, John wrote: It appears that Mantreshwar, if he were alive today, would consider TM as a form of Buddhist practice. If he were he would be wrong. TM does not teach the four noble truths or bodhichitta, therefore it would not qualify :-) Since it has not created any Buddhas This is not true. Bevin the Buddha. Bevan, not Bevin --YABOPKB (Yet Another Samhita of Pot, kettle, black) [OCD] moment... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
On Jun 27, 2005, at 9:03 AM, Llundrub wrote: -But if you're not a Buddhist you can't rightly say though. Moreover, there is not just one form of Buddhist meditation. What's interesting, at very least as history, is that it appears Advaita Vedanta--both that of Shankara and his paramguru Gaudapada owe a lot to Buddhism. Tell me, where can you find you find the concept of maya in any of the main Upanishads, Bhagavad-gita or the Badarayana sutras? You can't. Gaudapada and Shankara are both dependent on Nagarjuna's teaching of maya in Madhyamika.
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 27, 2005, at 8:23 AM, off_world_beings wrote: This is not true. Bevin the Buddha. If you see him by the road, swerve. ...but you might want to make sure you are in a Hummer first :-) But if you swerve, be careful not to hit LB, the other (skinny) Buddha. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, considering that Gautama was a prince in Vedic kingdom, trained by Brahmin priests and who learned Sanskrit and the Vedas in depth, it is not surprising that what he taught (or rather what his disciples taught) was a form of Vedic knowledge. It is like the difference between Catholicism and the later Protestantism not much difference really. Both Christianity. In fact, Hindus and Vedic scholars do not consider Buddhism as outside of the Vedic tradition. Just yet another stream and interpretation of it. Vaj can correct me on this, but my understanding is that nothing could have been further from the truth during Buddha's lifetime. The Hindu priests were royally pissed that people were flocking to his heretical teachings and not to theirs, and did a great deal to try to demonize him. No, that is a myth. Made up. No historical evidence. They barely noticed his few hundred followers. However, once he was safely dead, they had a change of heart and claimed that the same guy they'd been demonizing had miraculously become an incarnation of Vishnu. :-) Unc To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
On Jun 27, 2005, at 9:03 AM, sparaig wrote: You have no idea what accumulations of merit and wisdom the long-term witnessing folk show. Then tell. I'm listening. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
On Jun 27, 2005, at 9:15 AM, off_world_beings wrote: No, that is a myth. Made up. No historical evidence. They barely noticed his few hundred followers. Isn't that kinda like saying people barely noticed Shankara's four followers? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 27, 2005, at 9:03 AM, Llundrub wrote: -But if you're not a Buddhist you can't rightly say though. Moreover, there is not just one form of Buddhist meditation. What's interesting, at very least as history, is that it appears Advaita Vedanta--both that of Shankara and his paramguru Gaudapada owe a lot to Buddhism. Tell me, where can you find you find the concept of maya in any of the main Upanishads, Bhagavad-gita or the Badarayana sutras? You can't. Gaudapada and Shankara are both dependent on Nagarjuna's teaching of maya in Madhyamika. The concept of Maya is clearly stated in the Rig Veda Richo Akshare verse, and many other places. It is a constant theme, and to say that Buddha invented it is absurd. Richo Akshare Parame Vyoman Yasmin Deva Adhivishve Nisheduh Yastanna Veda Kimricha Karishyati Ya It tad vidus Ta ime samasate To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 27, 2005, at 9:15 AM, off_world_beings wrote: No, that is a myth. Made up. No historical evidence. They barely noticed his few hundred followers. Isn't that kinda like saying people barely noticed Shankara's four followers? Yes. This was in response to someone saying that the Vedic priests were all upset and waving their arms and nashing their teeth because of Buddha's small following. Whats your point? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If he were he would be wrong. TM does not teach the four noble truths or bodhichitta, therefore it would not qualify :-) Since it has not created any Buddhas it could not be considered a path to enlightenment--after all it has no way for the accumulations necessary. Vaj = Bob Brigante? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If he were he would be wrong. TM does not teach the four noble truths or bodhichitta, therefore it would not qualify :-) Since it has not created any Buddhas it could not be considered a path to enlightenment--after all it has no way for the accumulations necessary. Vaj = Bob Brigante? (I love the smell of dogma in the morning) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
On Jun 27, 2005, at 9:56 AM, Rory Goff wrote: (I love the smell of dogma in the morning) It's just the facts m'am! To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 27, 2005, at 9:03 AM, sparaig wrote: You have no idea what accumulations of merit and wisdom the long-term witnessing folk show. Then tell. I'm listening. Researchers at MUM had subjects fill out various forms, and tested their EEG and other physiological parameters and correlated test scores with physiology measures and long-termness of TM practice. Various things were found, including the fact that the long-term TMing group reported long-term episodes of witnessing, and also showed higher moral reasoning and other positive personal quailty [my term] test scores with the highest difference between short- term/long-term found in the following tests: Inner/outer orientation, Moral reasoning, Trait anxiety, State anxiety, IPIP: Emotional stability. The long-term TMers also showed EEG and other markers that were commonly associated with witnessing in other research on TMers, to be expected afterall since they WERE reporting witnessing of the TM sort. http://www.brainresearchinstitute.org/research/ConcCog2004.pdf Consciousness and Cognition 13 (2004) 401420 [...] Table 4 presents the number of subjects in each group (columns) who fell in the three super-code categories (rows). As seen in this figure, all subjects in the first group (Non-TM Group) described themselves in terms of feelings, thoughts and actions. Subjects in the second group (Short-Term Group) described themselves in terms of the first two categories. Subjects in the last group (Long-term Group) described themselves in terms of an independent, underlying reality. [...] Table 4 Table of number of subjects in each group in each of the three super- code categories that emerged from the content analysis Sense-of-selfNon-TM group Short-Term group Long-term group -- Identified with Thoughts, Feelings, and Actions17 30 Director of Thoughts, Feelings, and Actions 0 14 0 Independent and Underlying Thoughts, Feelings, and Actions 0 0 17 [...] [self-test scores] Test Non-TM Short-term Long-term F stat (2,26) p value Inner/outer orientation 60.2(23.8) 70.0(12.4) 84.4(13.9) 9.03 .001 Moral reasoning 3.1(0.4) 3.4(0.4) 3.7(0.2) 5.69 .009 State anxiety 35.9(15.2) 27.1(9.1) 22.3(2.4) 7.66 .002 Trait anxiety 40.2(15.5) 30.6(7.6) 24.6(4.0) 7.90 .002 [...] IPIP: Emotional stability 3.3(1.0) 3.8(0.8) 4.4(0.4) 10.64 .0004 To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 27, 2005, at 9:15 AM, off_world_beings wrote: No, that is a myth. Made up. No historical evidence. They barely noticed his few hundred followers. Isn't that kinda like saying people barely noticed Shankara's four followers? Shankara traditionally is said to have debated all the great spiritual leaders/gurus of his time in order to prove their understanding of enlightenment false (or something). Did the Buddha seek out and debate people after his awakening? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 27, 2005, at 9:56 AM, Rory Goff wrote: (I love the smell of dogma in the morning) It's just the facts m'am! Facts? We don't need no stinking facts! :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
On Jun 27, 2005, at 10:07 AM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 27, 2005, at 9:03 AM, sparaig wrote: You have no idea what accumulations of merit and wisdom the long-term witnessing folk show. Then tell. I'm listening. Researchers at MUM had subjects fill out various forms, and tested their EEG and other physiological parameters and correlated test scores with physiology measures and long-termness of TM practice. Oh yeah, heard plenty of stuff like this. I thought you meant something new. I see a number of problems with this approach--one is, 'is this a random sample of meditators, either in general or in the long-term group?'. Of course we know they are not being chosen by a unbiased researcher. The other problem is that on ANYONE in the TM paradigm, they have been indoctrinated that TM does this and good reporting would be good, saying anything bad would be going against everything we/they stand for. Consequently these subjects well know that they should report certain good experiences even cached in a certain wording. In other words they been coached by the very nature paradigm to provide certain answers. Not very convincing, but always interesting To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 27, 2005, at 9:56 AM, Rory Goff wrote: (I love the smell of dogma in the morning) It's just the facts m'am! Just out of curiosity -- did you ever take the Keirsey/Jung personality test? I am wondering if you (and Bob Brigante) might be something like a --TJ, as opposed to an --FP, for example... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 27, 2005, at 9:56 AM, Rory Goff wrote: (I love the smell of dogma in the morning) It's just the facts m'am! Just out of curiosity -- did you ever take the Keirsey/Jung personality test? I am wondering if you (and Bob Brigante) might be something like a --TJ, as opposed to an --FP, for example... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 27, 2005, at 10:07 AM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 27, 2005, at 9:03 AM, sparaig wrote: You have no idea what accumulations of merit and wisdom the long-term witnessing folk show. Then tell. I'm listening. Researchers at MUM had subjects fill out various forms, and tested their EEG and other physiological parameters and correlated test scores with physiology measures and long-termness of TM practice. Oh yeah, heard plenty of stuff like this. I thought you meant something new. I see a number of problems with this approach--one is, 'is this a random sample of meditators, either in general or in the long-term group?'. Of course we know they are not being chosen by a unbiased researcher. Oh yea, this from a guy that posts some California dude with his toy EEG machine showing his empty mind. The other problem is that on ANYONE in the TM paradigm, they have been indoctrinated that TM does this and good reporting would be good, saying anything bad would be going against everything we/they stand for. . You must mean Dr. Lubimov, 30 years expert at Moscow institue and world expert in EEG. Yes, a real niave TM indoctrinated poor soul...right Vaj? Consequently these subjects well know that they should report certain good experiences even cached in a certain wording. In other words they been coached by the very nature paradigm to provide certain answers. This is a good point, but the self reports are minor secondary level evidence in these studies. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
On Jun 27, 2005, at 10:33 AM, Rory Goff wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 27, 2005, at 9:56 AM, Rory Goff wrote: (I love the smell of dogma in the morning) It's just the facts m'am! Just out of curiosity -- did you ever take the Keirsey/Jung personality test? I am wondering if you (and Bob Brigante) might be something like a --TJ, as opposed to an --FP, for example... I actually have a friend who is licensed to give that test and I took the long test (as opposed to the short ones you see on the net). I guess the results are broken down into four pairs. I fell in the middle on all four pairs. Consequently she felt I had the freedom to go either way as the situation demanded. Interesting test though. She liked classifying all her friends and acquaintances based on that system. Needless to say my results frustrated her to no end because it meant she couldn't read me. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Shankara traditionally is said to have debated all the great spiritual leaders/gurus of his time in order to prove their understanding of enlightenment false (or something). Explains a lot about the TM approach to other forms of spiritual development, n'est-ce pas? :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
--- Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 27, 2005, at 10:07 AM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 27, 2005, at 9:03 AM, sparaig wrote: You have no idea what accumulations of merit and wisdom the long-term witnessing folk show. Then tell. I'm listening. Researchers at MUM had subjects fill out various forms, and tested their EEG and other physiological parameters and correlated test scores with physiology measures and long-termness of TM practice. Oh yeah, heard plenty of stuff like this. I thought you meant something new. I see a number of problems with this approach--one is, 'is this a random sample of meditators, either in general or in the long-term group?'. Of course we know they are not being chosen by a unbiased researcher. The other problem is that on ANYONE in the TM paradigm, they have been indoctrinated that TM does this and good reporting would be good, saying anything bad would be going against everything we/they stand for. Consequently these subjects well know that they should report certain good experiences even cached in a certain wording. In other words they been coached by the very nature paradigm to provide certain answers. Good assessment instruments for self-report measures take a good amount of time to develop because of the above problems. The questions need to have low face validity (i.e., it is not self-evident what is a good or a bad response). The recent research on northern entrances vs. southern entrances is a good example of this. If subjects know that a northern entrance is good then they will report more good things happening to them. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
On Jun 27, 2005, at 10:36 AM, off_world_beings wrote: Oh yea, this from a guy that posts some California dude with his toy EEG machine showing his empty mind. Well Off, it's a casual experiment, I would hope you wouldn't take it as any more than that. The most interesting thing is that he can display different modes of functioning quite well. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just out of curiosity -- did you ever take the Keirsey/Jung personality test? I am wondering if you (and Bob Brigante) might be something like a --TJ, as opposed to an --FP, for example... I ask this as I am tempted to hypothesize that J's, being more concerned with tangible facts and conceptual boundaries, might have a relatively harder time dropping their preferred dogma and descriptors in favor of life-as-it-is, or indeed might never need to, and thus perenially simply experience life-as-it-is in an entirely different way than the more amorphous P's. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
On Jun 27, 2005, at 10:46 AM, Peter Sutphen wrote: Good assessment instruments for self-report measures take a good amount of time to develop because of the above problems. The questions need to have low face validity (i.e., it is not self-evident what is a good or a bad response). The recent research on northern entrances vs. southern entrances is a good example of this. If subjects know that a northern entrance is good then they will report more good things happening to them. So do you feel that there are study design issues with some of the TMO research? I would think that almost any question presented to your typical TMO research subject would be completely indoctrinated into the good response, no? How could you hide that? Wouldn't you have to have TM/TMSP meditators who were not exposed to any such bias--which would even mean the literature which precedes the intro lectures and the scientific lit. IN the intro. lectures? Pretty hard person to find. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Pretty hard person to find. Well for starters one might look at the rather large pool of disaffected ex-TMers, particuarly ones exhibiting strong anti-TM bias, and examine some of them for signs of enlightenment :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
--- off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 27, 2005, at 9:03 AM, Llundrub wrote: -But if you're not a Buddhist you can't rightly say though. Moreover, there is not just one form of Buddhist meditation. What's interesting, at very least as history, is that it appears Advaita Vedanta--both that of Shankara and his paramguru Gaudapada owe a lot to Buddhism. Tell me, where can you find you find the concept of maya in any of the main Upanishads, Bhagavad-gita or the Badarayana sutras? You can't. Gaudapada and Shankara are both dependent on Nagarjuna's teaching of maya in Madhyamika. The concept of Maya is clearly stated in the Rig Veda Richo Akshare verse, and many other places. It is a constant theme, and to say that Buddha invented it is absurd. Richo Akshare Parame Vyoman Yasmin Deva Adhivishve Nisheduh Yastanna Veda Kimricha Karishyati Ya It tad vidus Ta ime samasate Help me out here, where do you find the concept of maya in the above sanskrit quote? Maya is simply a term used to label how that which is not can appear to be. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Sports Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
--- Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 27, 2005, at 10:46 AM, Peter Sutphen wrote: Good assessment instruments for self-report measures take a good amount of time to develop because of the above problems. The questions need to have low face validity (i.e., it is not self-evident what is a good or a bad response). The recent research on northern entrances vs. southern entrances is a good example of this. If subjects know that a northern entrance is good then they will report more good things happening to them. So do you feel that there are study design issues with some of the TMO research? I would think that almost any question presented to your typical TMO research subject would be completely indoctrinated into the good response, no? How could you hide that? Wouldn't you have to have TM/TMSP meditators who were not exposed to any such bias--which would even mean the literature which precedes the intro lectures and the scientific lit. IN the intro. lectures? Pretty hard person to find. There's some good research in TM and some really crappy research in TM. Most of the crappy research comes about because pilot studies are being done with marginal research designs because the researcher is looking for some effect before dedicating lots of time and money into better designed research. But then the TMO gets ahold of this and uses it as if it is some sort of well designed research and it is far from that. Again, the recent North vs. South entrance stuff is crappy research. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Sports Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I actually have a friend who is licensed to give that test and I took the long test (as opposed to the short ones you see on the net). I guess the results are broken down into four pairs. I fell in the middle on all four pairs. Consequently she felt I had the freedom to go either way as the situation demanded. Interesting test though. She liked classifying all her friends and acquaintances based on that system. Needless to say my results frustrated her to no end because it meant she couldn't read me. Another perfectly good hypothesis down the drain! :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 27, 2005, at 10:07 AM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 27, 2005, at 9:03 AM, sparaig wrote: You have no idea what accumulations of merit and wisdom the long-term witnessing folk show. Then tell. I'm listening. Researchers at MUM had subjects fill out various forms, and tested their EEG and other physiological parameters and correlated test scores with physiology measures and long-termness of TM practice. Oh yeah, heard plenty of stuff like this. I thought you meant something new. Published last year. Reasonably new I see a number of problems with this approach--one is, 'is this a random sample of meditators, either in general or in the long-term group?'. Of course we know they are not being chosen by a unbiased researcher. They were volunteers all (TMer and non) from Fairfield IA. The other problem is that on ANYONE in the TM paradigm, they have been indoctrinated that TM does this and good reporting would be good, saying anything bad would be going against everything we/they stand for. Consequently these subjects well know that they should report certain good experiences even cached in a certain wording. In other words they been coached by the very nature paradigm to provide certain answers. The researchers discuss this. They point out that the short term (average 8 years) and long-term (average 22 years) meditating groups both had enough time to absorb rhetoric and expectations but had distinctly different modes of describing their internal landscape. Also, both the EEG/physiology measures and the test-scores (not interviews) are highly correlated with the short-term/long-term-ness of the meditators. Not very convincing, but always interesting As with all pilot studies, more research is needed, but I think the researchers address many/most of your objections. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
On Jun 27, 2005, at 10:48 AM, Rory Goff wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just out of curiosity -- did you ever take the Keirsey/Jung personality test? I am wondering if you (and Bob Brigante) might be something like a --TJ, as opposed to an --FP, for example... I ask this as I am tempted to hypothesize that J's, being more concerned with tangible facts and conceptual boundaries, might have a relatively harder time dropping their preferred dogma and descriptors in favor of life-as-it-is, or indeed might never need to, and thus perenially simply experience life-as-it-is in an entirely different way than the more amorphous P's. I guess you would have to find someone like that. I think your issue is that when responses are made in regards to a particular path you are assuming that is what I Vaj or someone else believes. Paths are relative. Different paths will have their own internal logic peculiar to them and their own View. In discussion it might be helpful to choose the way-of-seeing that meets the subject matter at hand and thus we may discuss different ways. There's a lot of ways do do it, don't get so stuck if we are discussing one. But if we are saying we want to retain the five objects of desire (i.e. the five sense's objects) AND achieve Buddhahood in one lifetime, that does kinda narrow things down. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
On Jun 27, 2005, at 10:54 AM, Rory Goff wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Pretty hard person to find. Well for starters one might look at the rather large pool of disaffected ex-TMers, particuarly ones exhibiting strong anti-TM bias, and examine some of them for signs of enlightenment :-) It would be even more interesting to look at the pool who simply see things as they are. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen [...] Good assessment instruments for self-report measures take a good amount of time to develop because of the above problems. The questions need to have low face validity (i.e., it is not self-evident what is a good or a bad response). The recent research on northern entrances vs. southern entrances is a good example of this. If subjects know that a northern entrance is good then they will report more good things happening to them. The following tests were used. I'm not competent to assess their value or appropriateness. They were mailed to the participants, I understand: 3.1.2. Test Instruments 3.1.2.1. Inner/outer orientation. Baruss developed this scale to quantify a subjects worldview along an outer/inner, material/transcendental dimension 3.1.2.2. Moral reasoning. Gibbs Socio-Moral Reflection Measure-Short Form (SMR-SF) 3.1.2.3. Anxiety levels. Spielbergers State/Trait Anxiety (STAI) 3.1.2.4. Personality. The International Personality Item Pool (IPIP) was used to measure personality. 3.1.3. Data analysis: scoring of psychological tests The tests of inner/outer orientation, state/trait anxiety, and personality were scored using standard templates. Gibbss moral reasoning protocols were sent to trained scorers. The scorers met the requirements for reliability in scoring, set forth in Appendices B and C in Gibbss manual, (Gibbs et al., 1992). To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 27, 2005, at 10:46 AM, Peter Sutphen wrote: Good assessment instruments for self-report measures take a good amount of time to develop because of the above problems. The questions need to have low face validity (i.e., it is not self-evident what is a good or a bad response). The recent research on northern entrances vs. southern entrances is a good example of this. If subjects know that a northern entrance is good then they will report more good things happening to them. So do you feel that there are study design issues with some of the TMO research? I would think that almost any question presented to your typical TMO research subject would be completely indoctrinated into the good response, no? How could you hide that? Wouldn't you have to have TM/TMSP meditators who were not exposed to any such bias--which would even mean the literature which precedes the intro lectures and the scientific lit. IN the intro. lectures? Pretty hard person to find. True enough, but you can simulate the expectations of the TM intro and 3-nights checking lectures, and this HAS been done in at least one study. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 27, 2005, at 9:03 AM, Llundrub wrote: -But if you're not a Buddhist you can't rightly say though. Moreover, there is not just one form of Buddhist meditation. What's interesting, at very least as history, is that it appears Advaita Vedanta--both that of Shankara and his paramguru Gaudapada owe a lot to Buddhism. Tell me, where can you find you find the concept of maya in any of the main Upanishads, Bhagavad-gita or the Badarayana sutras? You can't. Gaudapada and Shankara are both dependent on Nagarjuna's teaching of maya in Madhyamika. The concept of Maya is clearly stated in the Rig Veda Richo Akshare verse, and many other places. It is a constant theme, and to say that Buddha invented it is absurd. Richo Akshare Parame Vyoman Yasmin Deva Adhivishve Nisheduh Yastanna Veda Kimricha Karishyati Ya It tad vidus Ta ime samasate Help me out here, where do you find the concept of maya in the above sanskrit quote? Maya is simply a term used to label how that which is not can appear to be. It is obvious from several directions and levels, and is the basis or main theme of all the Vedas and Upanishads. The most obvious is that he who is without the Ved (pure consciousnes) cannot accomplish knowledge through the verses. He is self-deluded , or to put it in your terms, is under the illusion that that which appears to him to be the truth, is in fact an illusion. This is the basis of the concept of Maya. He who is unaware of the ocean of pure intelligence which pervades the universe, assumes that the surface level of life (or assumes that sanskrit words) is the whole of knowledge. It can be called ignorance. The Budhhist concept of Maya is a superficial distortion of the Vedic concept of ignorance, that in the Vedic view, naturally precedes the natural and timely unfoldment of moksha. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I actually have a friend who is licensed to give that test and I took the long test (as opposed to the short ones you see on the net). I guess the results are broken down into four pairs. I fell in the middle on all four pairs. Consequently she felt I had the freedom to go either way as the situation demanded. Interesting test though. She liked classifying all her friends and acquaintances based on that system. Needless to say my results frustrated her to no end because it meant she couldn't read me. Another perfectly good hypothesis down the drain :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip The concept of Maya is clearly stated in the Rig Veda Richo Akshare verse, and many other places. It is a constant theme, and to say that Buddha invented it is absurd. Richo Akshare Parame Vyoman Yasmin Deva Adhivishve Nisheduh Yastanna Veda Kimricha Karishyati Ya It tad vidus Ta ime samasate Help me out here, where do you find the concept of maya in the above sanskrit quote? Maya is simply a term used to label how that which is not can appear to be. If I may, my understanding of MMY's definition of maya is a bit different. Maya is that which is not, but the illusion is that it isn't Unity; it appears to be only diversity. Swami Rama and a disciple are sitting watching a glorious sunset. Look at that sunset, sighs the disciple. So beautiful...but it's all just maya. No, no, no, Swami Rama retorts. The sunset isn't maya, it's God. To say the sunset isn't God--*that's* maya. MMY's translation of the Richo Akshare verse: The verses of Veda exist in the collapse of fullness in the transcendental field, in which reside all the impulses of creative intelligence, the laws of Nature, responsible for the whole manifest universe. He whose awareness is not open to this field, what can the verses accomplish for him? Those who know this level of reality are established in evenness, in wholeness of life. In the context of the definition I gave (and MMY's translation), the verse does indeed refer to maya, the whole manifest universe, which is in reality the expression of Unity, the transcendental field. If you are not a knower of the transcendental field, you miss the wholeness of life (maya). To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen [...] There's some good research in TM and some really crappy research in TM. Most of the crappy research comes about because pilot studies are being done with marginal research designs because the researcher is looking for some effect before dedicating lots of time and money into better designed research. But then the TMO gets ahold of this and uses it as if it is some sort of well designed research and it is far from that. This is true. However, the MUM researchers don't approach non-TM researchers to conduct join-research funded by the NIH until they're pretty confident that they WILL find pro-TM results. This is one reason why much of the best-designed studies on TM (at least out of MUM) are quite positive: they cherry pick what they're going to study and only study what they are *certain* will show TM in a good light. Again, the recent North vs. South entrance stuff is crappy research. More than likely, though it should be possible to conduct surveys that aren't biased. BTW, does anyone know the answer to this? Does the Sthapatya-Veda orientation of North-South entrances change once you cross the Equator? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
On Jun 27, 2005, at 11:22 AM, authfriend wrote: MMY's translation of the Richo Akshare verse: The verses of Veda exist in the collapse of fullness in the transcendental field, in which reside all the impulses of creative intelligence, the laws of Nature, responsible for the whole manifest universe. He whose awareness is not open to this field, what can the verses accomplish for him? Those who know this level of reality are established in evenness, in wholeness of life. In the context of the definition I gave (and MMY's translation), the verse does indeed refer to maya, Post hoc ergo propter hoc, no? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I guess you would have to find someone like that. I think your issue is that when responses are made in regards to a particular path you are assuming that is what I Vaj or someone else believes. Paths are relative. Different paths will have their own internal logic peculiar to them and their own View. In discussion it might be helpful to choose the way-of-seeing that meets the subject matter at hand and thus we may discuss different ways. There's a lot of ways do do it, don't get so stuck if we are discussing one. But if we are saying we want to retain the five objects of desire (i.e. the five sense's objects) AND achieve Buddhahood in one lifetime, that does kinda narrow things down. Yes, I guess this is where we differ -- I honestly don't think any path is going to take us anywhere other than here, and so I don't think Buddhahood can be achieved at all. Rather, we do what we do until we don't, if you see what I mean. For those who swing that way, TM appears to be as good a path as any to eventually abandon into the remembrance of who we always have been. All the paths are in the realest sense nothing but a distraction, a wonderful sleight of hand. This is not to say they don't serve a very real purpose, as only misdirection can fool us into eventually accepting what always is :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It would be even more interesting to look at the pool who simply see things as they are. Of course, but if you are looking specifically to eliminate pro-TM bias, you might want to select from anti-TM those-who-see-things-as- they-are -- in other words, probably some of the relatively-newly- awakened :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 27, 2005, at 11:22 AM, authfriend wrote: MMY's translation of the Richo Akshare verse: The verses of Veda exist in the collapse of fullness in the transcendental field, in which reside all the impulses of creative intelligence, the laws of Nature, responsible for the whole manifest universe. He whose awareness is not open to this field, what can the verses accomplish for him? Those who know this level of reality are established in evenness, in wholeness of life. In the context of the definition I gave (and MMY's translation), the verse does indeed refer to maya, Post hoc ergo propter hoc, no? The question would be: is MMY's translation ad hoc? If it is accurate, than the claim that maya is a buddhist invention seems strained... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 27, 2005, at 11:22 AM, authfriend wrote: MMY's translation of the Richo Akshare verse: The verses of Veda exist in the collapse of fullness in the transcendental field, in which reside all the impulses of creative intelligence, the laws of Nature, responsible for the whole manifest universe. He whose awareness is not open to this field, what can the verses accomplish for him? Those who know this level of reality are established in evenness, in wholeness of life. In the context of the definition I gave (and MMY's translation), the verse does indeed refer to maya, Post hoc ergo propter hoc, no? No. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Shankara traditionally is said to have debated all the great spiritual leaders/gurus of his time in order to prove their understanding of enlightenment false (or something). Explains a lot about the TM approach to other forms of spiritual development, n'est-ce pas? :-) I'm sorry, I honestly am not sure what your point was. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
On Jun 27, 2005, at 11:37 AM, sparaig wrote: Post hoc ergo propter hoc, no? The question would be: is MMY's translation ad hoc? If it is accurate, than the claim that maya is a buddhist invention seems strained... Well I never said that it was an invention. I merely pointed out that Maya in Nagarjuna precedes Advaita Vedanta and is presented in the same precise way. I would argue that the idea of maya is quite old, as it can be found in pre-Vedic Samkhya--in fact it is mentioned by that exact name in the Samkhya-karika... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
On Jun 27, 2005, at 11:15 AM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 27, 2005, at 10:36 AM, off_world_beings wrote: Oh yea, this from a guy that posts some California dude with his toy EEG machine showing his empty mind. Well Off, it's a casual experiment, I would hope you wouldn't take it as any more than that. The most interesting thing is that he can display different modes of functioning quite well. But we have no idea what is actually being measured. EEG competence requires more than just plugging wires to the head or so I have read. I found it interesting to read on the web what the various Mind Mirror models were. It would be fun to have one to play with during practice. On a similar note, my birthday is coming up. ;-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
Shankara traditionally is said to have debated all the great spiritual leaders/gurus of his time in order to prove their understanding of enlightenment false (or something). Explains a lot about the TM approach to other forms of spiritual development, n'est-ce pas? :-) I'm sorry, I honestly am not sure what your point was. My point is that there are many spiritual traditions on the planet that would never even *conceive* of entering into a debate with another tradition to prove their understanding of enlightenment false (or, if the something was more along the lines of prove our understanding to be better, to do that). Clearly, if the story you refer to is true, that was not true for Shankara, and for his tradition. Unc To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 27, 2005, at 11:37 AM, sparaig wrote: Post hoc ergo propter hoc, no? The question would be: is MMY's translation ad hoc? If it is accurate, than the claim that maya is a buddhist invention seems strained... Well I never said that it was an invention. I merely pointed out that Maya in Nagarjuna precedes Advaita Vedanta and is presented in the same precise way. That might be. Common use/description of terms is often adopted by others in an argument. I would argue that the idea of maya is quite old, as it can be found in pre-Vedic Samkhya--in fact it is mentioned by that exact name in the Samkhya-karika... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Shankara traditionally is said to have debated all the great spiritual leaders/gurus of his time in order to prove their understanding of enlightenment false (or something). Explains a lot about the TM approach to other forms of spiritual development, n'est-ce pas? :-) I'm sorry, I honestly am not sure what your point was. My point is that there are many spiritual traditions on the planet that would never even *conceive* of entering into a debate with another tradition to prove their understanding of enlightenment false (or, if the something was more along the lines of prove our understanding to be better, to do that). Clearly, if the story you refer to is true, that was not true for Shankara, and for his tradition. I don't know if it is true or not, but I believe its supposed to be how he drove them durned Buddhists out of India or something... Apparently there is a tradition of textual argument in the Shankaracharya tradition. The various claimants for Jyotirmath have challenged each other at some point or another using it. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My point is that there are many spiritual traditions on the planet that would never even *conceive* of entering into a debate with another tradition to prove their understanding of enlightenment false (or, if the something was more along the lines of prove our understanding to be better, to do that). Clearly, if the story you refer to is true, that was not true for Shankara, and for his tradition. Vaj, would you say that attempting to show that TM does not lead to Buddhahood would place one firmly in the Shankara tradition? :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
On Jun 27, 2005, at 12:08 PM, TurquoiseB wrote: Clearly, if the story you refer to is true, that was not true for Shankara, and for his tradition. Wasn't Shankara's debate trip about Dvaita vs. Advaita? Arguably his most famous work, the Brahma-sutra-bhasya, is all about how he feels everything is less than his View. Of course there are numerous other works arguing the same thing from their POV... This Bhasya supposedly represents the basis for M.'s 7 states of c. theory. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Shankara traditionally is said to have debated all the great spiritual leaders/gurus of his time in order to prove their understanding of enlightenment false (or something). Explains a lot about the TM approach to other forms of spiritual development, n'est-ce pas? :-) I'm sorry, I honestly am not sure what your point was. My point is that there are many spiritual traditions on the planet that would never even *conceive* of entering into a debate with another tradition to prove their understanding of enlightenment false (or, if the something was more along the lines of prove our understanding to be better, to do that). Clearly, if the story you refer to is true, that was not true for Shankara, and for his tradition. I don't know if it is true or not, but I believe its supposed to be how he drove them durned Buddhists out of India or something... Apparently there is a tradition of textual argument in the Shankaracharya tradition. The various claimants for Jyotirmath have challenged each other at some point or another using it. So I reiterate my original point -- this explains a lot about the TM approach to other forms of spiritual devel- opment, doesn't it? The whole dogma that TM is best, that other paths are lesser, that other types of medi- tation don't work as well as TM does, or even that they don't work the way their practioners think they do, but the way that Maharishi says they do (e.g., concentration). My point is simply that such behavior would be unthinkable in some spiritual traditions; it would seem that in this one, it's just tradition. Unc To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
On Jun 27, 2005, at 11:30 AM, Rory Goff wrote: Yes, I guess this is where we differ -- I honestly don't think any path is going to take us anywhere other than here, and so I don't think Buddhahood can be achieved at all. Rather, we do what we do until we don't, if you see what I mean. And why would you choose to believe that this is not a path? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
Maya is a useful concept used to explain something in a particular condition/state/level of consciousness. --- sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 27, 2005, at 11:37 AM, sparaig wrote: Post hoc ergo propter hoc, no? The question would be: is MMY's translation ad hoc? If it is accurate, than the claim that maya is a buddhist invention seems strained... Well I never said that it was an invention. I merely pointed out that Maya in Nagarjuna precedes Advaita Vedanta and is presented in the same precise way. That might be. Common use/description of terms is often adopted by others in an argument. I would argue that the idea of maya is quite old, as it can be found in pre-Vedic Samkhya--in fact it is mentioned by that exact name in the Samkhya-karika... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Sports Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 27, 2005, at 11:30 AM, Rory Goff wrote: Yes, I guess this is where we differ -- I honestly don't think any path is going to take us anywhere other than here, and so I don't think Buddhahood can be achieved at all. Rather, we do what we do until we don't, if you see what I mean. And why would you choose to believe that this is not a path? I am not saying this didn't feel like a path at the time -- only that after the fact, one sees it that led exactly nowhere. Hence I don't really get the whole discussion of which path is better (or gets us enlightened or leads us to Buddhahood or whatever), or which view is better, and so on. To me they all look like exactly the same path and the same view -- a view involving denial of here- now in favor of something conceptualized and projected not-here-now; e.g. something better, later. Am I missing something here? If so, I appreciate your patience in attempting to explain it to me. It must be a pretty huge blindspot, because I am definitely not getting it. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 27, 2005, at 11:30 AM, Rory Goff wrote: Yes, I guess this is where we differ -- I honestly don't think any path is going to take us anywhere other than here, and so I don't think Buddhahood can be achieved at all. Rather, we do what we do until we don't, if you see what I mean. And why would you choose to believe that this is not a path? I am not saying this didn't feel like a path at the time -- only that after the fact, one sees it that led exactly nowhere. Hence I don't really get the whole discussion of which path is better (or gets us enlightened or leads us to Buddhahood or whatever), or which view is better, and so on. To me they all look like exactly the same path and the same view -- a view involving denial of here- now in favor of something conceptualized and projected not-here-now; e.g. something better, later. Am I missing something here? If so, I appreciate your patience in attempting to explain it to me. It must be a pretty huge blindspot, because I am definitely not getting it. So you are seeking a better later by resolving your blindspot? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
(First post delayed or lost; trying again) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So you are seeking a better later by resolving your blindspot? No, I am merely reading my lines. My appreciation of perfection-here- now is not necessarily going to be Yours; You are responsible for your own perception of perfection-here-now, as You well know :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 27, 2005, at 11:37 AM, sparaig wrote: Post hoc ergo propter hoc, no? The question would be: is MMY's translation ad hoc? If it is accurate, than the claim that maya is a buddhist invention seems strained... Well I never said that it was an invention. I merely pointed out that Maya in Nagarjuna precedes Advaita Vedanta and is presented in the same precise way. I would argue that the idea of maya is quite old, as it can be found in pre-Vedic Samkhya--in fact it is mentioned by that exact name in the Samkhya-karika... Thanks for this info. And glad to see you can change your opinion entirely. What does 'pre-Vedic mean'? Which books, according to scholars, were written or recorded before the Rig Ved? and where is the source for this ? Can you explain more about this please. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maya is a useful concept used to explain something in a particular condition/state/level of consciousness. And *to* a particular condition/state/level of consciousness. If one is at the point where maya is seen as the illusion it is, no explan- ation is necessary. :-) Unc To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 27, 2005, at 11:30 AM, Rory Goff wrote: Yes, I guess this is where we differ -- I honestly don't think any path is going to take us anywhere other than here, and so I don't think Buddhahood can be achieved at all. Rather, we do what we do until we don't, if you see what I mean. And why would you choose to believe that this is not a path? I am not saying this didn't feel like a path at the time -- only that after the fact, one sees it that led exactly nowhere. Hence I don't really get the whole discussion of which path is better (or gets us enlightened or leads us to Buddhahood or whatever), or which view is better, and so on. To me they all look like exactly the same path and the same view -- a view involving denial of here- now in favor of something conceptualized and projected not-here- now; e.g. something better, later. Am I missing something here? I don't think so. Path has *exactly* to do with not-here-now-ness. When one realizes here-now-ness, and realizes that there was never a time when one was *not* here-now, the idea of path becomes laughable. However, path gives folks something to do with themselves until that realization dawns. And it's probably better than fighting wars or whacking off. Unc To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: However, path gives folks something to do with themselves until that realization dawns. And it's probably better than fighting wars or whacking off. Yes (though one might argue that one can play with a path *and* play with oneself simultaneously); somehow Grace always gives us what we *most* desire despite our best efforts to achieve it for ourselves :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: However, path gives folks something to do with themselves until that realization dawns. And it's probably better than fighting wars or whacking off. Yes (though one might argue that one can play with a path *and* play with oneself simultaneously)... Which brings up yet another deep philosophical question: if you're in UC and play with yourself, are you really playing with your Self? :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: However, path gives folks something to do with themselves until that realization dawns. And it's probably better than fighting wars or whacking off. Yes (though one might argue that one can play with a path *and* play with oneself simultaneously)... Which brings up yet another deep philosophical question: if you're in UC and play with yourself, are you really playing with your Self? :-) Well, it gets even scarier. When Rory is playing with Himself, he is playing with you. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: However, path gives folks something to do with themselves until that realization dawns. And it's probably better than fighting wars or whacking off. Yes (though one might argue that one can play with a path *and* play with oneself simultaneously)... Which brings up yet another deep philosophical question: if you're in UC and play with yourself, are you really playing with your Self? :-) Well, it gets even scarier. When Rory is playing with Himself, he is playing with you. There are several levels of meaning to the term 1000 Headed Purusha. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
However, path gives folks something to do with themselves until that realization dawns. And it's probably better than fighting wars or whacking off. Yes (though one might argue that one can play with a path *and* play with oneself simultaneously)... Which brings up yet another deep philosophical question: if you're in UC and play with yourself, are you really playing with your Self? :-) Well, it gets even scarier. When Rory is playing with Himself, he is playing with you. There are several levels of meaning to the term 1000 Headed Purusha. The reason why many Indian goddesses have six arms is becoming clearer and clearer by the minute... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Am I missing something here? If so, I appreciate your patience in attempting to explain it to me. It must be a pretty huge blindspot, because I am definitely not getting it. So you are seeking a better later by resolving your blindspot? No, I am simply reading my lines. I didn't say My perfect-here-now resolution would look perfect-here-now, to You -- only to Me. You're responsible for your own perceptions of perfection, here, now, as You well know... :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: However, path gives folks something to do with themselves until that realization dawns. And it's probably better than fighting wars or whacking off. Yes (though one might argue that one can play with a path *and* play with oneself simultaneously)... Which brings up yet another deep philosophical question: if you're in UC and play with yourself, are you really playing with your Self? :-) Absolutely. :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
Wow, so this long-lost post finally made it home! Must have detoured too close to a black-hole. Talk about postcards from the edge... --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So you are seeking a better later by resolving your blindspot? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No, I am simply reading my lines. I didn't say My perfect-here-now resolution would look perfect-here-now, to You -- only to Me. You're responsible for your own perceptions of perfection, here, now, as You well know... :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wow, so this long-lost post finally made it home! Must have detoured too close to a black-hole. Talk about postcards from the edge... It's been happening a lot lately, on a lot of the Yahoo groups. Posts taking hours to be displayed, double posts when one really didn't press Send twice, that sorta thing. Gremlins... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
--- TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maya is a useful concept used to explain something in a particular condition/state/level of consciousness. And *to* a particular condition/state/level of consciousness. If one is at the point where maya is seen as the illusion it is, no explan- ation is necessary. :-) Unc Agreed. Concepts are useful tools. I see arguing over who invented/discovered the concept as a little fruitless unless you're working on your doctoral dissertation. Then by all means split the split of the split of the split of the hair. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Sports Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Agreed. Concepts are useful tools. I see arguing over who invented/discovered the concept as a little fruitless unless you're working on your doctoral dissertation. Then by all means split the split of the split of the split of the hair. Barber school doctorate? Hari hari. Is Ron the Barber a professor there? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: However, path gives folks something to do with themselves until that realization dawns. And it's probably better than fighting wars or whacking off. Yes (though one might argue that one can play with a path *and* play with oneself simultaneously)... Which brings up yet another deep philosophical question: if you're in UC and play with yourself, are you really playing with your Self? :-) Well, it gets even scarier. When Rory is playing with Himself, he is playing with you. There are several levels of meaning to the term 1000 Headed Purusha. The reason why many Indian goddesses have six arms is becoming clearer and clearer by the minute... and why there were so many gopis. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: However, path gives folks something to do with themselves until that realization dawns. And it's probably better than fighting wars or whacking off. Yes (though one might argue that one can play with a path *and* play with oneself simultaneously)... Which brings up yet another deep philosophical question: if you're in UC and play with yourself, are you really playing with your Self? :-) Well, it gets even scarier. When Rory is playing with Himself, he is playing with you ...and presumably with God - a risk I would be most reluctant to take. Uns. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
It sounds as if you are describing the Natural State--which is a form of meditation but it is also a non-meditation. There is a path for this form of meditation. I describe it as meditation isn't, getting used to is. But yes it is a path, has a view and has a result...that is of course if you are both talking about non-dual meditation... On Jun 27, 2005, at 12:56 PM, Rory Goff wrote: I am not saying this didn't feel like a path at the time -- only that after the fact, one sees it that led exactly nowhere. Hence I don't really get the whole discussion of which path is better (or gets us enlightened or leads us to Buddhahood or whatever), or which view is better, and so on. To me they all look like exactly the same path and the same view -- a view involving denial of here- now in favor of something conceptualized and projected not-here-now; e.g. something better, later. Am I missing something here? If so, I appreciate your patience in attempting to explain it to me. It must be a pretty huge blindspot, because I am definitely not getting it. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, uns_tressor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ...and presumably with God - a risk I would be most reluctant to take. Uns. To paraphrase Pogo, we have met the Divinity and S/He is Us. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It sounds as if you are describing the Natural State--which is a form of meditation but it is also a non-meditation. There is a path for this form of meditation. I describe it as meditation isn't, getting used to is. But yes it is a path, has a view and has a result...that is of course if you are both talking about non-dual meditation... OK, thanks, Vaj. I guess non-meditation meditation is as good a line as any to describe every-day life; Natural State is even better. I am not sure what the result could be, though, and I still balk at calling this a path :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No, I am simply reading my lines. I didn't say My perfect-here-now resolution would look perfect-here-now, to You -- only to Me. You're responsible for your own perceptions of perfection, here, now, as You well know... :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: .. he says in his best one-upmanship fashion. But then gets confused since there should be no up in Brahman. Sorry, but I still stand by my post. Make of it what you will; you are only reinforcing my point, just as I am sure I am reinforcing yours for you :-) I think your one-up-manship is perfect, because it is who you are, its your nature -- to see as far as you can see. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 27, 2005, at 9:56 AM, Rory Goff wrote: (I love the smell of dogma in the morning) It's just the facts m'am! Just out of curiosity -- did you ever take the Keirsey/Jung personality test? I am wondering if you (and Bob Brigante) might be something like a --TJ, as opposed to an --FP, for example... *** OK, that's it -- I'm turning your unlicensed dogma into the Fairfield authorities: http://tinyurl.com/bf9d4 To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think your one-up-manship is perfect, because it is who you are, its your nature -- to see as far as you can see. Cool, I can live with that :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bbrigante [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK, that's it -- I'm turning your unlicensed dogma into the Fairfield authorities: http://tinyurl.com/bf9d4 *lol* Thanks, Bob :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think your one-up-manship is perfect, because it is who you are, its your nature -- to see as far as you can see. Cool, I can live with that :-) Thanks again! Very tasty with fava beans and a nice chianti. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Agreed. Concepts are useful tools. I see arguing over who invented/discovered the concept as a little fruitless unless you're working on your doctoral dissertation. Then by all means split the split of the split of the split of the hair. Barber school doctorate? Hari hari. Is Ron the Barber a professor there? Ron the barber. Now there's a flash from the past. What course was Ron the barber on? Mallorca-Fiuggi? Unc To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: TM and Buddhism (per Mantreshwar, ancient jyotishi)
Hey, all According to Mantreshwar, an ancient jyotish author, my birth chart has a yoga for being a sanyasi, practicing a form of Buddhism. As a practicing TM meditator, I was at first puzzled by this observation. However, after pondering the description of this yoga, I became appreciative of the author's wisdom and perception. Here's why: In many of his commentaries MMY shows deep respect for the Lord Buddha. MMY states, nevertheless, that the Buddha's teachings have been misunderstood. MMY states that TM and its tradition have the correct interpretation of the Buddha's teachings, as stated in MMY's commentary to the Gita. It appears that Mantreshwar, if he were alive today, would consider TM as a form of Buddhist practice. Regards, John R. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, lurkernomore20002000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anyone care to join in a discussion with some Buddhists, pseudo- Bhuddists, and agnostics? The agnostics/atheists are the only rude ones. The Buddhists are nice. I think I bit off more than I could chew though :-) C'mon Bob, Dr. Pete, Akasha and you other guys, help me out here. Naysayers and yaysayers all the better. Calling in all that goodwill you accumulated eh? lurk To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
