[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > That someone can sell a technique to help people relax does not > automatically make them a saint. > > *** Every post you make only serves to further reduce your credibility. Anybody who has actually practiced TM twice a day for more than 30 years, as you claim, certainly does not think that "relaxation" is the whole story of TM. And, of course, your post is a very amusing non sequitur which does nothing to dispel the notion that you are, like Kai Druhl and other unfortunates, incapable of being around a really good man without freaking out... > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" > > wrote: > > > > > > Correction: for the record I dropped practice for a few weeks > after > > > seeing the look in MMYs eyes whilst standing near him in Royal > > Albert > > > Hall London in the mid-1970's. > > > > > > > > > > * > > > > It's not uncommon for highly-stressed individuals to react badly to > > being in MMY's presence. Here's the account of former MUM prof Kai > > Druhl: > > > > "In 1990, I first met Maharishi Mahesh Yogi personally. Immediately > > after the meeting, I noticed signs of demonic oppression. I was no > > longer able to control my facial expressions during meditation, and > > my lips would suddenly retreat to expose my clenched teeth. This > loss > > of control eventually even spread into quiet times, outside of > > meditation. At the time, I attributed that to the impending release > > of a "stress," that I thought had been in me all along." > > > > http://www.thetruelight.net/personalstories/kaidruhl.htm > > > > So you are claiming that although MMY left India and taught you and > > millions of other Westerners TM, a practice which you say "brings > the > > light," and which practice you say you have practiced for 30 years, > > you do not regard discomfort around MMY -- the man responsible for > > teaching you this wonderful technique that you have been practicing > > for 30 years (!) -- as demonstrating a deficiency in you rather > than > > MMY? > > > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev on 9/3/06 3:48 PM, t3rinity at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Did you know that at the side toward Viv. island, at the > temple walls lived a great Avadhuta, Mayi Amma? She is on one of the > early videos of Ammachi who visited her. There are some cool stories about that trip in one of the early books about her. She is purported to have levitated in front of the group that was traveling with her. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > And the temple is within a short walk of where three oceans meet. By > bathing there one is reported to wash away all sins. Needless to say, > I am "sinless". :) Great. I lost my hotelkey there, while swimming. There are very strong currents, and I was climbing on one of these rocks, but upon returning back to the water, I was thrown back to the rock. On my first day there I swam to Vivekananda island. I just wanted to bath in the ocean, having been in the train for three days. Suddenly I realized I am halfway there, so I thought why not swim there instead of back. The funny thing with the image was, that half a year after my initiation in the early seventies, I saw a b&w copy of the image, and somebody told me it was Krishna. At that time I fell in love with Krishna. Only much later in the movement, I realized it was the Kumari, but that was *after* I had a vision of the Divine Mother early eighties, then I realized that I was drawn to the Devi right from the beginning. I heard that MMY had a painting of the image always next to his bedside, and that it took him 5 days to realize the signifigance of that Devi. Did you know that at the side toward Viv. island, at the temple walls lived a great Avadhuta, Mayi Amma? She is on one of the early videos of Ammachi who visited her. I didn't meet her anymore, she passed in 1993. Did you see her? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > In fact, as there is no way to prove, if a vision is true or not, it > would have been impossible to demonize MMY. As you say, everything is > possible, but to me the story MMY retells about the beginning of the > movement, his experiences at Kanyakumari and Guruvayur, where MMY > 'received the inspiration to give the blessing of the Himalayas' What I heard from different sources, is that the vision at Kanyakumari was of "Mother Divine" and she inspired MMY to start SRM. I heard this as early as 1967 or 68. It made a huge deep impression on me. So since 17, I wante to to Kanyakumari. I finally did, specifically to be in that temple. An associated general thing I heard from an India TTC CP. MMY talked of Kanyakumari, and in this context said that the Divine is everywhere, like electricity is everywhere. But electric sockets in the wall have very concentrated electricity. And temples are like large electric sockets of the Divine. Interestingly, in the lines to see the inner sanctum of the temple, I passed big rough wide doors inside the temple for "the sadhus". For them to stay / do their devotions and practices. I so wanted to go in. I imagined MMY had stayed inside there, and had the vision of Mother Divine there. As an aside, the temple murti is quite extraordinary. Dazzling jeweled eyes. "Almost" alive with "livliness". And the temple is within a short walk of where three oceans meet. By bathing there one is reported to wash away all sins. Needless to say, I am "sinless". :) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > As I've been saying for some time--and LB Shriver > > also commented recently--some of the True NON-Believers > > here, Barry in particular, are utterly blind to the > > fact that their thought processes are indistinguishable > > from the those of the very truest of True Believers. > > I think you have a point here Judy: As the WP atricle on > Eric Hoffer says: 'As he describes in The True Believer, > a passionate obsession with the outside world or with the > private lives of other people is merely a craven attempt > to compensate for a lack of meaning in one's own life.' > Substitute 'private lives of other people' with Judy Stein > and when and how often she posts. Heh. You don't even have to substitute. I can't count the number of times Barry has described his fantasies about my private life and even my physical characteristics. > Furthermore: 'A core principle in the book is Hoffer's insight > that mass movements are interchangeable; he notes fanatical > Nazis later becoming fanatical Communists, fanatical Communists > later becoming fanatical anti-Communists, and Saul, persecutor > of Christians, becoming Paul, a fanatical Christian himself. > For the true believer the substance of the mass movement > isn't so important as that he or she is part of that movement.' Yup, which is why Barry is so defensive about FFL being, in his mind, reserved for *criticism* of MMY, the TMO, and TMers. It's the pro-TMers here who are the "outsiders," the "invaders," as far as Barry is concerned. > So a True TM Believer can just as easily become a True Anti-TM > Believer. Saul could become Paul, and Paul can become Saul. > > And its not the obsession with a particular person, like > Judy Stein that is important, but the meaning he the TB > or TB-Anti derives from being obsessed. And the trademark > of this obsession is his need to demonize his opponent. So > for the TB-Anti the 'TB' is OTOH a victim and pitiable, > but when he doesn't listen to him, he is demonized as > scary, dangerous, paranoid fanatic. People, individuals who > discuss here, are disowned of their individaul expressions > and believes and portrayed as representatives of a larger > anonymus monster. *Very* well said. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
On Sep 3, 2006, at 10:35 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: >> >> On Sep 2, 2006, at 7:31 PM, bob_brigante wrote: >> >>> So you are claiming that although MMY left India and taught >>> you and millions of other Westerners TM, a practice which >>> you say "brings the light," and which practice you say you >>> have practiced for 30 years, you do not regard discomfort >>> around MMY -- the man responsible for teaching you this >>> wonderful technique that you have been practicing for 30 >>> years (!) -- as demonstrating a deficiency in you rather than >>> MMY? >> >> Bob, JOOC, why is it always necessary to find "fault" with >> what someone else has said WRT MMY, when it's something you >> apparently don't like? Why not just accept that that was >> that person's experience, (not yours) and move on? Why the >> constant need to force explanations? Move on already. > > Just FYI, Sal, this is Eric Hoffer's #1 criterion > for True Believers as he defines them. (Since he > invented the term, IMO his definition is probably > worth paying attention to.) > > This criterion is defined as the person who reacts > negatively or angrily to anyone who doesn't treat > the leader of his particular mass movement "the > way he should." That is, if the followers of the > leader of the mass movement believe that the leader > should be treated as superhuman or godlike, they > would *also* tend to believe that anyone who does > *not* treat the leader as godlike is attacking or > dissing him. If the leader is, say, a political > leader and his followers treat him by saluting him > in a certain way (think Sieg Heil!), then anyone > who does *not* salute the leader that way (even > if their local customs or religionf forbid it) is > perceived as being disrespectful to the political > leader and often a traitor to the country. Yep, and I think it becomes personal, too, in that the followers than perceive the other person's lack of appropriate motions as being disrespectful of themselves (the followers) and after a while the teacher or leader has all but been forgotten, as it becomes more and more a battle of wills. Like MMY says, it's all self-referral. :) Sal To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > What's so ironic in this case is that your story > about MMY *wasn't even a challenge*, it was just > an alternate possibility. > > And Barry could have continued to maintain his > opinion *even if he accepted that your story was > true*, by suggesting that MMY may not really have > had a vision he thought was of Guru Dev, but had > made it up as an excuse. Of course. Both ways, 1) the vison didn't take place, or 2) the vison wasn't authentic (that is not from a real disembodied GD) > (Of course, you also made it clear that you weren't > claiming the vision MMY said he'd had was actually > a visitation from a disembodied Guru Dev, so > whether such visitations are even possible is > completely irrelevant.) > > What Barry found so threatening about your story > was the mere idea that there *was* an alternate > possibility to his take. Barry had already started to discuss No 2, by citing the many examples out of the Rama community, who channeled him after his death. I had pointed out the difference, for example that MMY didn't boast about his experience (even to the extend that people in the movement don't know about it), and he didn't really channel, that is give messages out (which was Barrys argument for creating self-importance). When I had pointed this out, he jumped lines and started saying, that the whole vision didn't take place (because he never had heard of it), and accused me of being a paranoid cultist. IOW he lost patience. I think I am sort of a red rag to him. To me the import of the story is this: If No.2 is the case, that is, if the vision had taken place, but isn't authenitic, MMY couldn't be accused of betraying his master, because he himself *believed* that he did his masters bidding. In fact, as there is no way to prove, if a vision is true or not, it would have been impossible to demonize MMY. As you say, everything is possible, but to me the story MMY retells about the beginning of the movement, his experiences at Kanyakumari and Guruvayur, where MMY 'received the inspiration to give the blessing of the Himalayas' (quote History Book) shows that visionary, or to avoid the word, inner mystical experiences, were at the start of the movement, and that is btw. the way most religious movements started. In the Beacon Light he says at one point, (just rephrasing) that the blessing of GD is now available, and he doesn't know how long it will last. When you hear the tapes about how he left Uttar Kashi, he tells, how he felt a lack, an emptiness after GD's death. He also speaks clearly of the witnessing, how thought just emerge, and he witnesses them, like the thought to go to Rameshvaram. Then this other yogi tells him to get rid of the thought by going there. So, this vision, if it happened, came to MMY just about two years after the death of his master, with whom he had been close for 13 years, and which had left some kind of emptiness in him. That would be very different situation from let's say me having a vision of GD now, whom I had never seen, and wouldn't miss physically. His remarks in the Beacon Light and the historybook show, that he felt GD's presence with him - very different from the emptiness he described in the tapes after GD's death, when he went to Uttar Kashi. > As I've been saying for some time--and LB Shriver > also commented recently--some of the True NON-Believers > here, Barry in particular, are utterly blind to the > fact that their thought processes are indistinguishable > from the those of the very truest of True Believers. I think you have a point here Judy: As the WP atricle on Eric Hoffer says: 'As he describes in The True Believer, a passionate obsession with the outside world or with the private lives of other people is merely a craven attempt to compensate for a lack of meaning in one's own life.' Substitute 'private lives of other people' with Judy Stein and when and how often she posts. Furthermore: 'A core principle in the book is Hoffer's insight that mass movements are interchangeable; he notes fanatical Nazis later becoming fanatical Communists, fanatical Communists later becoming fanatical anti-Communists, and Saul, persecutor of Christians, becoming Paul, a fanatical Christian himself. For the true believer the substance of the mass movement isn't so important as that he or she is part of that movement.' So a True TM Believer can just as easily become a True Anti-TM Believer. Saul could become Paul, and Paul can become Saul. And its not the obsession with a particular person, like Judy Stein that is important, but the meaning he the TB or TB-Anti derives from being obsessed. And the trademark of this obsession is his need to demonize his opponent. So for the TB-Anti the 'TB' is OTOH a victim and pitiable, but when he doesn't listen to h
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > In spiritual movements, the most common criterion > these days is that if the followers have been > trained to believe that the leader is almost by > definition unable to do anything wrong or make a > mistake, anyone who suggests that the leader is > a normal human being and therefore as capable of > mistakes as anyone else is perceived as *attacking* > the leader. > > I think it's good to keep this guideline in mind > here on FFL. In my considered opinion, those people > who claim most loudly that they are *not* True > Believers exhibit this particular behavior in spades. Whew. Thanks for providing this guideline, Barry. It definitively eliminates me, at least, from the TB list. > Almost every time that someone portrays Maharishi > in a way that is different from their image of him, > they react as if the person who said something diff- > erent had *attacked* him, and was trying to (to quote > one of them) "bring him down." Well, that was my phrase, but of course according to your guideline above, I'm not "one of them." To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Sep 2, 2006, at 7:31 PM, bob_brigante wrote: > > > So you are claiming that although MMY left India and taught > > you and millions of other Westerners TM, a practice which > > you say "brings the light," and which practice you say you > > have practiced for 30 years, you do not regard discomfort > > around MMY -- the man responsible for teaching you this > > wonderful technique that you have been practicing for 30 > > years (!) -- as demonstrating a deficiency in you rather than > > MMY? > > Bob, JOOC, why is it always necessary to find "fault" with > what someone else has said WRT MMY, when it's something you > apparently don't like? Why not just accept that that was > that person's experience, (not yours) and move on? Why the > constant need to force explanations? Move on already. Just FYI, Sal, this is Eric Hoffer's #1 criterion for True Believers as he defines them. (Since he invented the term, IMO his definition is probably worth paying attention to.) This criterion is defined as the person who reacts negatively or angrily to anyone who doesn't treat the leader of his particular mass movement "the way he should." That is, if the followers of the leader of the mass movement believe that the leader should be treated as superhuman or godlike, they would *also* tend to believe that anyone who does *not* treat the leader as godlike is attacking or dissing him. If the leader is, say, a political leader and his followers treat him by saluting him in a certain way (think Sieg Heil!), then anyone who does *not* salute the leader that way (even if their local customs or religionf forbid it) is perceived as being disrespectful to the political leader and often a traitor to the country. In spiritual movements, the most common criterion these days is that if the followers have been trained to believe that the leader is almost by definition unable to do anything wrong or make a mistake, anyone who suggests that the leader is a normal human being and therefore as capable of mistakes as anyone else is perceived as *attacking* the leader. I think it's good to keep this guideline in mind here on FFL. In my considered opinion, those people who claim most loudly that they are *not* True Believers exhibit this particular behavior in spades. Almost every time that someone portrays Maharishi in a way that is different from their image of him, they react as if the person who said something diff- erent had *attacked* him, and was trying to (to quote one of them) "bring him down." I think that anyone with an open mind can see that this isn't the case, and that in many cases all that the person being called "anti-TM" or "anti-MMY" has done is to think of Maharishi in a way that is *different* from the way that the True Believers want him to be thought of. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Another piece of jigsaw puzzle, thanks. snip> So what happened when you looked in MMY's eyes that caused you to stop meditating? (P.S. Like your website BTW.) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > Your constant mantra that you're not trying to > > convince anybody of anything, Barry, is a crock. > > It's an excuse you haul out to get yourself off > > the hook when somebody mounts a solid challenge > > to whatever you're trying to convince them of. > > Well said. Very good observation. What's so ironic in this case is that your story about MMY *wasn't even a challenge*, it was just an alternate possibility. And Barry could have continued to maintain his opinion *even if he accepted that your story was true*, by suggesting that MMY may not really have had a vision he thought was of Guru Dev, but had made it up as an excuse. (Of course, you also made it clear that you weren't claiming the vision MMY said he'd had was actually a visitation from a disembodied Guru Dev, so whether such visitations are even possible is completely irrelevant.) What Barry found so threatening about your story was the mere idea that there *was* an alternate possibility to his take. As I've been saying for some time--and LB Shriver also commented recently--some of the True NON-Believers here, Barry in particular, are utterly blind to the fact that their thought processes are indistinguishable from the those of the very truest of True Believers. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
Another piece of jigsaw puzzle, thanks. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "randymeltzer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > The story I heard about the puja painting of Guru Dev (can't > remember from whom it was, but it was in the late 90's), was that it > was done by an artist in India. A TM teacher while travelling in > India, happenned to wander into this artist's shop and saw the > painting on the wall. He asked the artist about it, and was told > that he had painted it so many years ago. The artist had no idea > that it had been used for so many millions of intiations around the > world, and was quite pleased to hear about it. > Word got to Maharishi that the artist had been found. Maharishi was > very happy anout this and invited the man to come to Vlodrop, but > this never happenned, because the man was quite elderly and died > soon after this chance meeting with the TM teacher. > -- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" > > wrote: > > > > > > Just checked "M T V Acharya" on the net, and it came up with an > > > artist based in Bangalore, so it could well have been he who did > the > > > puja portrait. > > > > On the first hit: > > "SHANKAR: Long time artist. I think shankar is active even today. > Shankar > > started in 1953. Took over MTV Acharya for 'Cover' art too. He did > the > > Chandamam front covers for 3 - 4 years, ... till MTV returned to > take > > that job > > during mid 1956. Shankar artwork on Ramayana was very good. SHANKAR > > also did > > artwork for Yuva." > > > > 1956 is even the year MMY went there. It could have been well that > it > > was done then. MMY was several month in Madanapalle (there still > is a > > MMY mandir there) before he went to America, thats about 3 hours > from > > Bangalore. The picture on page 53 was supposedly taken in 1955, > that > > would have been before, I believe it was cut in. > > > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
On Sep 2, 2006, at 7:31 PM, bob_brigante wrote: > So you are claiming that although MMY left India and taught you and > millions of other Westerners TM, a practice which you say "brings the > light," and which practice you say you have practiced for 30 years, > you do not regard discomfort around MMY -- the man responsible for > teaching you this wonderful technique that you have been practicing > for 30 years (!) -- as demonstrating a deficiency in you rather than > MMY? Bob, JOOC, why is it always necessary to find "fault" with what someone else has said WRT MMY, when it's something you apparently don't like? Why not just accept that that was that person's experience, (not yours) and move on? Why the constant need to force explanations? Move on already. Sal To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Gimbel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > (snip) > > "An excellent point. One of the *foundations* of > > the True Believer mentality is "if this person > > taught me or told me one thing that has proved > > useful or true, then everything he says is useful > > and true." Extrapolating from this assumption, > > over time True Believers put the leader of their > > mass movement up on a pedestal and tend to auto- > > matically believe *everything* they say. They > > start to assume that the leader has a special > > "presence" that normal people don't have. The next, > > and IMO most dangerous step, is when they start > > to assume that anyone who doesn't feel and act the > > same way, and who doesn't put the leader up on the > > same pedestal that they do is "attacking" him, or > > not giving him the "proper" respect that he is due." > > This sounds like a perfect description of Hitler's rise to > power, and the view that der Fuehrer had becoming a 'God' > of sorts, to his followers. Eric Hoffer was the son of German immigrants, and Jewish. His work was originally based on the rise of fascism in Germany. He later extended it to cover all "mass movements," including religions, especially those that consider themselves the "chosen people," and thus better than others, including Judaism itself. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Your constant mantra that you're not trying to > convince anybody of anything, Barry, is a crock. > It's an excuse you haul out to get yourself off > the hook when somebody mounts a solid challenge > to whatever you're trying to convince them of. Well said. Very good observation. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
The story I heard about the puja painting of Guru Dev (can't remember from whom it was, but it was in the late 90's), was that it was done by an artist in India. A TM teacher while travelling in India, happenned to wander into this artist's shop and saw the painting on the wall. He asked the artist about it, and was told that he had painted it so many years ago. The artist had no idea that it had been used for so many millions of intiations around the world, and was quite pleased to hear about it. Word got to Maharishi that the artist had been found. Maharishi was very happy anout this and invited the man to come to Vlodrop, but this never happenned, because the man was quite elderly and died soon after this chance meeting with the TM teacher. -- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" > wrote: > > > > Just checked "M T V Acharya" on the net, and it came up with an > > artist based in Bangalore, so it could well have been he who did the > > puja portrait. > > On the first hit: > "SHANKAR: Long time artist. I think shankar is active even today. Shankar > started in 1953. Took over MTV Acharya for 'Cover' art too. He did the > Chandamam front covers for 3 - 4 years, ... till MTV returned to take > that job > during mid 1956. Shankar artwork on Ramayana was very good. SHANKAR > also did > artwork for Yuva." > > 1956 is even the year MMY went there. It could have been well that it > was done then. MMY was several month in Madanapalle (there still is a > MMY mandir there) before he went to America, thats about 3 hours from > Bangalore. The picture on page 53 was supposedly taken in 1955, that > would have been before, I believe it was cut in. > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > That someone can sell a technique to help people relax does not > automatically make them a saint. > > That someone is able to recognize that the essential recipe of sainthood-for-all is the simplest of relaxation techniques certainly implies something special about themselves. Or do you think that TM isn't unique? And that the average teacher of dhyan or samatha outside the TMO really "gets it?" > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" > > wrote: > > > > > > Correction: for the record I dropped practice for a few weeks > after > > > seeing the look in MMYs eyes whilst standing near him in Royal > > Albert > > > Hall London in the mid-1970's. > > > > > > > > > > * > > > > It's not uncommon for highly-stressed individuals to react badly to > > being in MMY's presence. Here's the account of former MUM prof Kai > > Druhl: > > > > "In 1990, I first met Maharishi Mahesh Yogi personally. Immediately > > after the meeting, I noticed signs of demonic oppression. I was no > > longer able to control my facial expressions during meditation, and > > my lips would suddenly retreat to expose my clenched teeth. This > loss > > of control eventually even spread into quiet times, outside of > > meditation. At the time, I attributed that to the impending release > > of a "stress," that I thought had been in me all along." > > > > http://www.thetruelight.net/personalstories/kaidruhl.htm > > > > So you are claiming that although MMY left India and taught you and > > millions of other Westerners TM, a practice which you say "brings > the > > light," and which practice you say you have practiced for 30 years, > > you do not regard discomfort around MMY -- the man responsible for > > teaching you this wonderful technique that you have been practicing > > for 30 years (!) -- as demonstrating a deficiency in you rather > than > > MMY? > > > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > "Fuck off and die" is intended to give offense and > arouse strong feelings of hostility, contrary to > what Barry is telling Michael. Not a *threat*, but > most definitely not "innocuous" (which is what I said > earlier). Yes,I didn't really see it as a threat, yet, I was startled at the time as he repeated it in three consecutive posts.(in April) I only reacted after the 2nd or 3rd, the first I simply ignored. So it seemed to me at the time as it was something of an attempted curse, esp. since he had just pointed out to me that I was unfamiliar with magic, something he was interested in. > Which is why Barry banged out another long, insulting > rant: to convince Michael that he is just not that > important to Barry. ROFLOL To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
(snip) " An excellent point. One of the *foundations* of > the True Believer mentality is "if this person > taught me or told me one thing that has proved > useful or true, then everything he says is useful > and true." Extrapolating from this assumption, > over time True Believers put the leader of their > mass movement up on a pedestal and tend to auto- > matically believe *everything* they say. They > start to assume that the leader has a special > "presence" that normal people don't have. The next, > and IMO most dangerous step, is when they start > to assume that anyone who doesn't feel and act the > same way, and who doesn't put the leader up on the > same pedestal that they do is "attacking" him, or > not giving him the "proper" respect that he is due." This sounds like a perfect description of Hitler's rise to power, and the view that der Fuehrer had becoming a 'God' of sorts, to his followers. Similar things happened in Rome with Julius Caesar, and his notion of being a 'God'. For a certain time President Bush, was regarded by the Christian right, as a kind of 'Good against evil, kind of guy'...many still do. So, perhaps you are describing an ~Archetype~, that seems to be a re- occurring theme; Whether you create an ashram, a religion or a nation-state; There is human ego, which vies for power; And replays itself, in these ways... But, more than this, I still get an intuitive feeling, that because the vibrations of which you speak, remind me so much of the period of the Third Reich, and the feeling of superiority, and purity of race, and superior knowledge and even archetecture; organic food too; Many of the same attitudes and strict concepts of the Nazi regime; To conclude that many of the souls involved in that period; are working out their karma in the TM movement... The lesson would primarily be; That we're all here in the same boat; no one is superior to anyone else; We're here to help each other; And not to compete and judge, and all the rest, [which causes seperateness and bad feelings, and results]. All of the lessons of arrogance, superiority, and the rest; Still need some work, in this community... R.G. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > At one time the puja pictures were available by mail order from > Holland, but they were only colour litho prints not oil paintings. That's true for all the initiation pictures. We printed them in Rheinweiler. > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" > > wrote: > > > > > > Thanks t3, thanks for your thoroughness, > > > wouldn't it be funny if it were MMY who actually did the puja > > > painting, I suppose that is out of the question? > > > > No, I don't think so. > > > > > He has been very > > > interested in maintaining the use of this particular image > > > Look at the name M T V Acharya - M(ahesh) T Varma? Well it's a > > > thought > > > > Can't tell really, but I heard it stayed with the people he was > guest > > of. The reason he gives for only using one particular painting is, > to > > avoid misuse. That is, TM teachers are not supposed to use any other > > photo for initiation, and this photo is also not sold by the TMO (of > > course there are lots of photographed copies).So initiations with > that > > picture were seen as a sign of authenticity. > > > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > That someone can sell a technique to help people relax > does not automatically make them a saint. An excellent point. One of the *foundations* of the True Believer mentality is "if this person taught me or told me one thing that has proved useful or true, then everything he says is useful and true." Extrapolating from this assumption, over time True Believers put the leader of their mass movement up on a pedestal and tend to auto- matically believe *everything* they say. They start to assume that the leader has a special "presence" that normal people don't have. The next, and IMO most dangerous step, is when they start to assume that anyone who doesn't feel and act the same way, and who doesn't put the leader up on the same pedestal that they do is "attacking" him, or not giving him the "proper" respect that he is due. Read Bob's statement below with this in mind, and I think you'll see True Believerism at its height. Or depth, depending on your point of view. Bob's last paragraph is True Believerism personified. > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" > > wrote: > > > > > > Correction: for the record I dropped practice for a few > > > weeks after seeing the look in MMYs eyes whilst standing > > > near him in Royal Albert Hall London in the mid-1970's. > > > > * > > > > It's not uncommon for highly-stressed individuals to react > > badly to being in MMY's presence. Here's the account of > > former MUM prof Kai Druhl: > > > > "In 1990, I first met Maharishi Mahesh Yogi personally. > > Immediately after the meeting, I noticed signs of demonic > > oppression. I was no longer able to control my facial > > expressions during meditation, and my lips would suddenly > > retreat to expose my clenched teeth. This loss > > of control eventually even spread into quiet times, outside of > > meditation. At the time, I attributed that to the impending > > release of a "stress," that I thought had been in me all along." > > > > http://www.thetruelight.net/personalstories/kaidruhl.htm > > > > So you are claiming that although MMY left India and taught you > > and millions of other Westerners TM, a practice which you say > > "brings the light," and which practice you say you have > > practiced for 30 years, you do not regard discomfort around > > MMY -- the man responsible for teaching you this wonderful > > technique that you have been practicing for 30 years (!) -- > > as demonstrating a deficiency in you rather than MMY? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
That someone can sell a technique to help people relax does not automatically make them a saint. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" > wrote: > > > > Correction: for the record I dropped practice for a few weeks after > > seeing the look in MMYs eyes whilst standing near him in Royal > Albert > > Hall London in the mid-1970's. > > > > > > * > > It's not uncommon for highly-stressed individuals to react badly to > being in MMY's presence. Here's the account of former MUM prof Kai > Druhl: > > "In 1990, I first met Maharishi Mahesh Yogi personally. Immediately > after the meeting, I noticed signs of demonic oppression. I was no > longer able to control my facial expressions during meditation, and > my lips would suddenly retreat to expose my clenched teeth. This loss > of control eventually even spread into quiet times, outside of > meditation. At the time, I attributed that to the impending release > of a "stress," that I thought had been in me all along." > > http://www.thetruelight.net/personalstories/kaidruhl.htm > > So you are claiming that although MMY left India and taught you and > millions of other Westerners TM, a practice which you say "brings the > light," and which practice you say you have practiced for 30 years, > you do not regard discomfort around MMY -- the man responsible for > teaching you this wonderful technique that you have been practicing > for 30 years (!) -- as demonstrating a deficiency in you rather than > MMY? > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
At one time the puja pictures were available by mail order from Holland, but they were only colour litho prints not oil paintings. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" > wrote: > > > > Thanks t3, thanks for your thoroughness, > > wouldn't it be funny if it were MMY who actually did the puja > > painting, I suppose that is out of the question? > > No, I don't think so. > > > He has been very > > interested in maintaining the use of this particular image > > Look at the name M T V Acharya - M(ahesh) T Varma? Well it's a > > thought > > Can't tell really, but I heard it stayed with the people he was guest > of. The reason he gives for only using one particular painting is, to > avoid misuse. That is, TM teachers are not supposed to use any other > photo for initiation, and this photo is also not sold by the TMO (of > course there are lots of photographed copies).So initiations with that > picture were seen as a sign of authenticity. > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > on 8/7/06 4:32 PM, Paul Mason at premanandpaul@ wrote: > > I have been practising transcendental meditation regularly for well > over three decades now, but that has not made me a 'true believer'. Thank God. Ingegerd > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante > wrote: > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" > wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Okay, it is time for me to own up. I have sensed Guru Dev > > behind my > > > > > research work since way way back, whether it be wandering in > > the > > > > > jungle chatting with swamis or trawling the internet or > > puzzling over > > > > > the meaning of a rarely used Sanskrit word. > > > > > I guess I am an unlikely conduit for his teachings, but as > far > > as I > > > > > am concerned, I work on his behalf. > > > > > > > > > > Are you claiming that Guru Dev wants you to > > > > denigrate Maharishi, Paul? > > > > > > > > > > > * > > > > Paul Mason is just confused, so it is pointless to ask about his > > motives, as he does not understand them. Mason has posted here > > that "TM brings the light," yet he no longer practices TM. All this > > talk of working for Guru Dev is just an attempt to rationalize his > > inability to practice a technique which he knows would bring > > enlightenment. > > > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ingegerd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I have some notes from 9th February 1970, where MMY talks about the > start of SRM, the notes is written from a Audio Tape: > "When Guru Dev left his body I retired to the Himalayas where Guru > Dev had met his Guru Dev. I felt I should go to Ramesh Waroom - I > asked the saints. One was 90 years old. This was for me, after the > Himalayas like stepping into mud. He advised against going. I > decided to forget the trip. I went to Kungakumari - I had a divine > revalation. I left and went to Tivendrum, to the biggest temple. I > was followed by a man and he asked me to speak about the Himalayas - > he arranged a 7 day lecture program and he supplied the topics. In 6 > months I was lecturing in Dehli. At this stage I had never initiated > anyone. When I got to Hardwar the philosophy had become clear - to > turn the mind inward was easy! The message was readily accepted. I > went to Kashmir and then to Bombay for the 89th birthday > celebrations for Guru Dev. I held a 3 day seminar in Madras on > saintly luminaries. At the end I said "I think this meditation can > spiritually regenerate the world". During the applause I felt I > should start a world movement. I announced it spontaneously. After a > 6 months tour of south India I calculated at this rate it would take > 200 years.". > Ingegerd > Thankyou > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" > wrote: > > > > Vision of Guru Dev by MMY? Never heard it before today. > > Never heard of him 'painting a picture' before, unless you mean > > colouring a photograph which you mentioned over on the googlegroup > > many many months back, as I recall. > > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ingegerd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jyouells2000" > wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" > > wrote: > > > > > > Does anyone have a copy of the photograph that t3rinity is > referring > > > to? It is to the left of MMY on page 53 of 'Thirty Years Around > the > > > World'. It looks like the photo that the puja portrait was > painted > > > from. An in-transit picture is at:- > > > http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/sources/text/GuidingLight.htm > > > > I thought that the puju portrait was painted by Dr. Varma , > > Maharishi's uncle. > > > > JohnY > > That is what I read. I thing it was said in book of Else Denmark?? > She was in Rishikesh when Dr. Varma was working with the picture. > Unfortunately, I have given away almost all books of MMY - so I am > not able to control it. > Ingegerd> Ingegerd I have Else's book, I'll take a look and see if I can find it. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Correction: for the record I dropped practice for a few weeks after > seeing the look in MMYs eyes whilst standing near him in Royal Albert > Hall London in the mid-1970's. > > * It's not uncommon for highly-stressed individuals to react badly to being in MMY's presence. Here's the account of former MUM prof Kai Druhl: "In 1990, I first met Maharishi Mahesh Yogi personally. Immediately after the meeting, I noticed signs of demonic oppression. I was no longer able to control my facial expressions during meditation, and my lips would suddenly retreat to expose my clenched teeth. This loss of control eventually even spread into quiet times, outside of meditation. At the time, I attributed that to the impending release of a "stress," that I thought had been in me all along." http://www.thetruelight.net/personalstories/kaidruhl.htm So you are claiming that although MMY left India and taught you and millions of other Westerners TM, a practice which you say "brings the light," and which practice you say you have practiced for 30 years, you do not regard discomfort around MMY -- the man responsible for teaching you this wonderful technique that you have been practicing for 30 years (!) -- as demonstrating a deficiency in you rather than MMY? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I have been practising transcendental meditation twice a day since > October 1970. > Oh a few times when I have been travelling or sick, I guess I went to > sleep, did anyone else go there? Oh, and for the sake of research I > have experimented with variants of the technique for some days at a > time. > But there are some who wish to believe that regularity in meditation > equals sawing away critical functions of the brain. Strangely that is > what opponents of TM believe. It is ironic to get so much flack from > those who are actually practising TM. > I question the motives of those who misrepresent me on this forum and > on other TM-related forums, it is their agenda that ought to be > scrutinised, perhaps we will discover who and who is not in the light? > ** Well, since I am the author of a web site critical of the operation of the TMO ( http://geocities.com/bbrigante/updates2006.html ), I am certainly not one of those straw men that you are talking about. The question remains, if you really have practiced TM (for 30 years!) as you were instructed to do by a TM teacher, then why are you determined to show that MMY is shortchanging the teaching of Guru Dev? You are either simply not telling the truth about your practice of TM or you are asking people to believe that you find TM unsatisfactory -- in some way that does not represent the tradition that Guru Dev passed on to MMY (in which case, why would you continue to practice TM?). If you have been practicing TM for 30 years, then you must believe in the efficacy of TM -- otherwise you would have quit and gone on to something else. If you do believe in the efficacy of TM, then it just makes no sense for you to claim that Guru Dev advocated anything other than TM for the billions of householders on earth (whether Guru Dev advocated certain other additional practices for recluses is not relevant to MMY's mission to allow householders to enjoy life just as much as recluse monks do by their spiritual practices). > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" > > wrote: > > > > > > on 8/7/06 4:32 PM, Paul Mason at premanandpaul@ wrote: > > > > > > I have been practising transcendental meditation regularly for > well > > > over three decades now, but that has not made me a 'true > believer'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay, it is time for me to own up. I have sensed Guru Dev > > > > behind my > > > > > > > research work since way way back, whether it be wandering > > in > > > > the > > > > > > > jungle chatting with swamis or trawling the internet or > > > > puzzling over > > > > > > > the meaning of a rarely used Sanskrit word. > > > > > > > I guess I am an unlikely conduit for his teachings, but > as > > > far > > > > as I > > > > > > > am concerned, I work on his behalf. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you claiming that Guru Dev wants you to > > > > > > denigrate Maharishi, Paul? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * > > > > > > > > Paul Mason is just confused, so it is pointless to ask about > his > > > > motives, as he does not understand them. Mason has posted here > > > > that "TM brings the light," yet he no longer practices TM. All > > this > > > > talk of working for Guru Dev is just an attempt to rationalize > > his > > > > inability to practice a technique which he knows would bring > > > > enlightenment. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > Well, apparently, there is either a semantic problem here > > (by "regular" you mean sporadic practice of TM, and not everyday > > twice a day practice of TM), or you are contradicting what you have > > posted before to the effect that you do not practice TM every day, > > and have not practiced TM for long periods of time during that > three > > decades you refer to. > > > > The question comes, if you have actually been practicing TM > regularly > > (everyday, twice a day) for more than 30 years, how is it that you > > still do not believe in the efficacy of TM, but keep trying to > insist > > that Maharishi is not respecting the desire of Guru Dev to > enlighten > > the world by teaching TM, which by your own admission "brings the > > light"? > > > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To u
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Just checked "M T V Acharya" on the net, and it came up with an > artist based in Bangalore, so it could well have been he who did the > puja portrait. On the first hit: "SHANKAR: Long time artist. I think shankar is active even today. Shankar started in 1953. Took over MTV Acharya for 'Cover' art too. He did the Chandamam front covers for 3 - 4 years, ... till MTV returned to take that job during mid 1956. Shankar artwork on Ramayana was very good. SHANKAR also did artwork for Yuva." 1956 is even the year MMY went there. It could have been well that it was done then. MMY was several month in Madanapalle (there still is a MMY mandir there) before he went to America, thats about 3 hours from Bangalore. The picture on page 53 was supposedly taken in 1955, that would have been before, I believe it was cut in. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Thanks t3, thanks for your thoroughness, > wouldn't it be funny if it were MMY who actually did the puja > painting, I suppose that is out of the question? No, I don't think so. > He has been very > interested in maintaining the use of this particular image > Look at the name M T V Acharya - M(ahesh) T Varma? Well it's a > thought Can't tell really, but I heard it stayed with the people he was guest of. The reason he gives for only using one particular painting is, to avoid misuse. That is, TM teachers are not supposed to use any other photo for initiation, and this photo is also not sold by the TMO (of course there are lots of photographed copies).So initiations with that picture were seen as a sign of authenticity. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > > It just strikes me that those who claim to believe > > > in Maharishi's theory *should* have an intellectual > > > problem with running into the individual conscious- > > > ness of someone they consider enlightened who died. > > > It seems to me that if they truly believe that > > > they've encountered Guru Dev's individual conscious- > > > ness that they should believe that Maharishi is > > > wrong about his "drop returning to the ocean" theory. > > MMY has specifically told, that its not possible to pray to Brahman, > as it is impersonal. Somebody concluded from this, that it would also > not be possible to pray to GD as he supposed that he completely merged > with It. MMY interupted the person stating that this is not what he > had told, and that one could very well pray to GD, that he would be > IOW be available on an individual level. > > So you are confusing things again. While union with Brahman is > possible even in this life, where an individuality is still available > in its external form, why should then this form not be available on a > different level after physical death. He can still be 'one with > Brahman' while still retaining a subtle form on a higher level, for > whatever work. > Or, in Star Trek terms, Odo maniefests to chat with Kyra. Does a separate Odo exist when he is NOT chatting with kyra? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > You can repeat any hearsay you want to here, > Michael. Just don't expect people to automat- > ically believe it the way you seem to. Where did I say that you have to believe it? I really don't care. But IF its true, it puts things in a different perspective. I am simply pointing out a perspective, while you issue judgement upon judgment, and pseudo-psychological analysis of people in your long and unending monoloques. > > I heard the story from a friend who visited this couple. > > Seems to really upset you. > > No, it means nothing to me whatsoever. Then, why do you begin to shout and call me names? > In contrast, based on your posts over the years, > you strike me as the kind of person who will believe > any damned thing that someone he has chosen to > believe about other things tells him. The operative word here is *chosen*. Yes I believe what I chose to believe. Why should I doubt a personal friend, who had visited these people? > Different strokes for different folks, that's all. Sure, I try to investigate before judging, you just judge. > > So, Barry, you are really a nice guy. > > I'm sure you're one, too, when you're not feeling > that the fact that other people don't believe the > same things you do means that they're trying to > convince you to believe what they believe. :-) Thats not a problem for me at all. What IS a problem, is people calling me names, like 'paranoid cultist'. There is no reason I gave you to call me like this except for me believing a story you don't believe. > Contrary to what Judy told you, it really *is* a > fairly innocuous American idiom. I explained what > I meant by it -- I was dismissing you, writing you > off completely, telling you to go away and argue > with someone who takes you seriously, because I > do not. I said so again in my last post, in nicer > words, and you didn't get it then, either. See, you can do so, but why don't you? You seem to be upset. As this is a public forum, I will respond to any written word here, as long as I feel I have something to say on it. So, I don't care what you say, understood? > > > > And because I believe something a friend tells me from > > an eyewitness, I am a cultist, and paranoid at that. > > See what I mean about not getting it? > > What makes you a paranoid cultist is the fact that > *you* are upset because I just didn't automatically > buy your story as true when you said it. Not true. I am upset only because you call me a paranoid cultist, because I believe my friend who told me about the vision. I don't even know if the vision is *true*, I just believe that he probably had this 'vision'. Out of this, I understand, how he acts. When this was MMY's understanding, then he was not actively betraying his Guru as you constantly suggest. For you the motive is clear, as you stated: self-importance and greed etc. You don't even ask further. That's the difference between you and me: I ask further. So, not judging if the vision itself was true or not, I believe that it justified MMY's action to himself. What is paranoid and cultish about that? > And the > fact that you believe that I am trying to convince > you to believe what I believe. > > I am not. That's just *you* being threatened by > someone else's belief system, that's all. Sorry, you are just making this up. Point is that you start calling names, and there is no justification. > > I will now make myself as clear as I possibly can. > I have no interest in future discussions with you, > ever, because YOU DON'T LISTEN, and because YOU GET > ALL PARANOID AND DEFENSIVE when you encounter a > belief system that is different from yours. That seems to be a mantra with you. But I have to give the compliments back: You clearly don't listen and try to mould people into your own image you have of them. In this you are a cultist yourself. You are so obsessed with your definition of a paranoid cultist, that you see them everywhere. > It's YOU who tries to convince others to believe what > he believes. You did it with me by trying to impress > me with a silly third-hand story, It's not silly and still close enough to the source. And I am only telling it to you to see how it acts on your fixed opinions. That is: what is IF. This is what discussion is for. But you are very impatient. > and you're doing it > with Paul by playing oneupsmanship "scripture games" > with him about the caste system. It's the same:I have not invented the argument with the scriptures. I am told that GD acted strictly according to Shastra. There are different opinions about them.This is part of a discussion. Should we not discuss anymore, because it might be seen as an attempt to convince the other, who inturn doesn't want to be convinced, which automatically makes you an paranoid cultist? Get real. Point is, you are not giving anything a shot, because you fear it could change you
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Correction: for the record I dropped practice for a few weeks after > seeing the look in MMYs eyes whilst standing near him in Royal Albert > Hall London in the mid-1970's. Care to share what you saw??? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
Just checked "M T V Acharya" on the net, and it came up with an artist based in Bangalore, so it could well have been he who did the puja portrait. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Thanks t3, thanks for your thoroughness, > wouldn't it be funny if it were MMY who actually did the puja > painting, I suppose that is out of the question? He has been very > interested in maintaining the use of this particular image > Look at the name M T V Acharya - M(ahesh) T Varma? Well it's a > thought > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" > > wrote: > > > > > > Does anyone have a copy of the photograph that t3rinity is > referring > > > to? It is to the left of MMY on page 53 of 'Thirty Years Around > the > > > World'. It looks like the photo that the puja portrait was > painted > > > from. An in-transit picture is at:- > > > http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/sources/text/GuidingLight.htm > > > > Paul, I can only say things as far as I remember. I am quite sure > > about the photo on page 53 (Thirty years around the world), because > it > > was one of my favorate MMY pictures from the book. This whole book > was > > done while I was in production, and I worked on it. There was > another > > german guy in photography who had the original photos, and sombody > who > > processed these photos, that is, airbrushed them. Bad parts would be > > substituted by other parts. There is one friend, who was then on > > Purusha, who mainly stayed in India, teaching and even giving TTC to > > Indians. He told me the story I am referring to, and also the thing > > about MMY's pastetime of coloring GD photos. So, he told me about > the > > appearance, as he had visited these devotees, who, I think still had > > the original painting, as MMY left it there. He was after all on a > > long pilgrimage to south India, and wouldn't carry paintings > around. I > > also recognize the painting in the book to be the Initiation photo, > > but I definitely remember the story, because it was this photo (of > MMY > > with the painting) I really liked. > > > > As I remember the practise of heavily touching things up, it could > > easily be, that a badly visible painting was substituted by the > > airbrusher with the puja photo, that was maybe on some other photos > of > > the same book. I know that this was also done with other photos. So, > > most probably the painting is not accurate. I also don't remember > the > > exact location of the place where this happened, but it was before > > Tamil Nadu or Kerala, so it was either in Andhra Pradesh, or in > Madhya > > Pradesh, I think in AP.There are hints in MMY's lectures, when he > > speaks about Kanyakumari and Guruvayur, like he got the 'message' > from > > the Devi in the temple, and how it was confirmed at the famous > Krishna > > temple in Kerala. I definitly remember that the GD inspiration > (now, I > > don't know details how the 'vision' was) was news to me.I think in > the > > tapes, MMY talks about the beginning of the movement, it is clear > that > > it was some kind of process. (he doesn't speak of visions with > regard > > to the gods here, but rather of 'inspiration' and 'confirmation' and > > the guidance of GD) > > > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ingegerd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I have some notes from 9th February 1970, where MMY talks about the > start of SRM, the notes is written from a Audio Tape: > "When Guru Dev left his body I retired to the Himalayas where Guru > Dev had met his Guru Dev. I felt I should go to Ramesh Waroom Rameshvaram -one of the 12 Jyotirlingams, dedicated to Shiva http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rameswaram - I > asked the saints. One was 90 years old. This was for me, after the > Himalayas like stepping into mud. He advised against going. I > decided to forget the trip. I went to Kungakumari - Kanyakumari - dedicated to Durga in the form of a virgin http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanyakumari I had a divine > revalation. I left and went to Tivendrum, Trivandrum, now Thiruvananthapuram, Capital of Kerala http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiruvananthapuram to the biggest temple. Guruvayur - a famous Krishna temple http://www.templenet.com/Kerala/guruvayur.html I > was followed by a man and he asked me to speak about the Himalayas - > he arranged a 7 day lecture program and he supplied the topics. In 6 > months I was lecturing in Dehli. At this stage I had never initiated > anyone. When I got to Hardwar the philosophy had become clear - to > turn the mind inward was easy! The message was readily accepted. I > went to Kashmir and then to Bombay for the 89th birthday > celebrations for Guru Dev. I held a 3 day seminar in Madras on > saintly luminaries. At the end I said "I think this meditation can > spiritually regenerate the world". During the applause I felt I > should start a world movement. I announced it spontaneously. After a > 6 months tour of south India I calculated at this rate it would take > 200 years.". > Ingegerd That's basically the short version, similar to what I heard on my TTC. The 'vision' I was talking about happened before, somewhere maybe in Andhra Pradesh, at some devotees house. Its a long way to the south from the Himalayas, and it took MMY several month to get there. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" > > wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak" > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > >> Unfortunately, Barry can't deal with teachers who > > > > > > > deal in contradictions and have different answers > > > > > > > to life's questions, depending on the state of > > > > > > > attention or POV that is in operation at the time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cunt. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm a cunt? > > > > > > > > > > What does that make Barry? > > > > > > > > A brachyphallic gugusse. > > > > > > A not-very-bright young man who trysts with priests?? > > > > something like that...not that I feel that way about Barry but > > thought it a nice counterpoint to "cunt". Also, I just read it > > in "Depraved and insulting English" and wanted to try it out. > > brachyphallic doesn't appear on google save in reference > to dogs. No definition. I assumed he meant "brachycephalic." "Brachyphallic" might be taken to mean "has a small dick," though, so perhaps that *is* what he meant. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > It just strikes me that those who claim to believe > > in Maharishi's theory *should* have an intellectual > > problem with running into the individual conscious- > > ness of someone they consider enlightened who died. > > It seems to me that if they truly believe that > > they've encountered Guru Dev's individual conscious- > > ness that they should believe that Maharishi is > > wrong about his "drop returning to the ocean" theory. MMY has specifically told, that its not possible to pray to Brahman, as it is impersonal. Somebody concluded from this, that it would also not be possible to pray to GD as he supposed that he completely merged with It. MMY interupted the person stating that this is not what he had told, and that one could very well pray to GD, that he would be IOW be available on an individual level. So you are confusing things again. While union with Brahman is possible even in this life, where an individuality is still available in its external form, why should then this form not be available on a different level after physical death. He can still be 'one with Brahman' while still retaining a subtle form on a higher level, for whatever work. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Isn't this forum open to all for public discussion? > > Yet you go out of your frame constantly. Saying: > > 'Fuck off and die' claiming this to be just a nice > > american idiom. > > Contrary to what Judy told you, it really *is* a > fairly innocuous American idiom. You really do the culture here an injustice by your statement above. No one I've ever known uses such a statement like this innocuously. Anyone I know, myself included would be very offended by the use of such a term directed at them. The reason I bring this up is that the US has enough problems these days without those who are not American being told that 'f off and die' is something bantered about in common conversation. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
Thanks t3, thanks for your thoroughness, wouldn't it be funny if it were MMY who actually did the puja painting, I suppose that is out of the question? He has been very interested in maintaining the use of this particular image Look at the name M T V Acharya - M(ahesh) T Varma? Well it's a thought --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" > wrote: > > > > Does anyone have a copy of the photograph that t3rinity is referring > > to? It is to the left of MMY on page 53 of 'Thirty Years Around the > > World'. It looks like the photo that the puja portrait was painted > > from. An in-transit picture is at:- > > http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/sources/text/GuidingLight.htm > > Paul, I can only say things as far as I remember. I am quite sure > about the photo on page 53 (Thirty years around the world), because it > was one of my favorate MMY pictures from the book. This whole book was > done while I was in production, and I worked on it. There was another > german guy in photography who had the original photos, and sombody who > processed these photos, that is, airbrushed them. Bad parts would be > substituted by other parts. There is one friend, who was then on > Purusha, who mainly stayed in India, teaching and even giving TTC to > Indians. He told me the story I am referring to, and also the thing > about MMY's pastetime of coloring GD photos. So, he told me about the > appearance, as he had visited these devotees, who, I think still had > the original painting, as MMY left it there. He was after all on a > long pilgrimage to south India, and wouldn't carry paintings around. I > also recognize the painting in the book to be the Initiation photo, > but I definitely remember the story, because it was this photo (of MMY > with the painting) I really liked. > > As I remember the practise of heavily touching things up, it could > easily be, that a badly visible painting was substituted by the > airbrusher with the puja photo, that was maybe on some other photos of > the same book. I know that this was also done with other photos. So, > most probably the painting is not accurate. I also don't remember the > exact location of the place where this happened, but it was before > Tamil Nadu or Kerala, so it was either in Andhra Pradesh, or in Madhya > Pradesh, I think in AP.There are hints in MMY's lectures, when he > speaks about Kanyakumari and Guruvayur, like he got the 'message' from > the Devi in the temple, and how it was confirmed at the famous Krishna > temple in Kerala. I definitly remember that the GD inspiration (now, I > don't know details how the 'vision' was) was news to me.I think in the > tapes, MMY talks about the beginning of the movement, it is clear that > it was some kind of process. (he doesn't speak of visions with regard > to the gods here, but rather of 'inspiration' and 'confirmation' and > the guidance of GD) > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Does anyone have a copy of the photograph that t3rinity is referring > to? It is to the left of MMY on page 53 of 'Thirty Years Around the > World'. It looks like the photo that the puja portrait was painted > from. An in-transit picture is at:- > http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/sources/text/GuidingLight.htm Paul, I can only say things as far as I remember. I am quite sure about the photo on page 53 (Thirty years around the world), because it was one of my favorate MMY pictures from the book. This whole book was done while I was in production, and I worked on it. There was another german guy in photography who had the original photos, and sombody who processed these photos, that is, airbrushed them. Bad parts would be substituted by other parts. There is one friend, who was then on Purusha, who mainly stayed in India, teaching and even giving TTC to Indians. He told me the story I am referring to, and also the thing about MMY's pastetime of coloring GD photos. So, he told me about the appearance, as he had visited these devotees, who, I think still had the original painting, as MMY left it there. He was after all on a long pilgrimage to south India, and wouldn't carry paintings around. I also recognize the painting in the book to be the Initiation photo, but I definitely remember the story, because it was this photo (of MMY with the painting) I really liked. As I remember the practise of heavily touching things up, it could easily be, that a badly visible painting was substituted by the airbrusher with the puja photo, that was maybe on some other photos of the same book. I know that this was also done with other photos. So, most probably the painting is not accurate. I also don't remember the exact location of the place where this happened, but it was before Tamil Nadu or Kerala, so it was either in Andhra Pradesh, or in Madhya Pradesh, I think in AP.There are hints in MMY's lectures, when he speaks about Kanyakumari and Guruvayur, like he got the 'message' from the Devi in the temple, and how it was confirmed at the famous Krishna temple in Kerala. I definitly remember that the GD inspiration (now, I don't know details how the 'vision' was) was news to me.I think in the tapes, MMY talks about the beginning of the movement, it is clear that it was some kind of process. (he doesn't speak of visions with regard to the gods here, but rather of 'inspiration' and 'confirmation' and the guidance of GD) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" > wrote: > > > > > > I have been practising transcendental meditation twice a day > since > > > October 1970. > > > Oh a few times when I have been travelling or sick, I guess I > went to > > > sleep, did anyone else go there? Oh, and for the sake of research > I > > > have experimented with variants of the technique for some days at > a > > > time. > > > But there are some who wish to believe that regularity in > meditation > > > equals sawing away critical functions of the brain. Strangely > that is > > > what opponents of TM believe. It is ironic to get so much flack > from > > > those who are actually practising TM. > > > I question the motives of those who misrepresent me on this forum > and > > > on other TM-related forums, it is their agenda that ought to be > > > scrutinised, perhaps we will discover who and who is not in the > light? > > > > > > What the hell is a variant of TM? > > > > There's zero and non-zero, how many other variations are there? > > > > > Sometimes you talk sense > Sometimes you talk rubbish... Patiently: there's zero effot and non-zero effort. Sorry you can't read the gaps... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
Sometimes you talk sense Sometimes you talk rubbish... --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" wrote: > > > > I have been practising transcendental meditation twice a day since > > October 1970. > > Oh a few times when I have been travelling or sick, I guess I went to > > sleep, did anyone else go there? Oh, and for the sake of research I > > have experimented with variants of the technique for some days at a > > time. > > But there are some who wish to believe that regularity in meditation > > equals sawing away critical functions of the brain. Strangely that is > > what opponents of TM believe. It is ironic to get so much flack from > > those who are actually practising TM. > > I question the motives of those who misrepresent me on this forum and > > on other TM-related forums, it is their agenda that ought to be > > scrutinised, perhaps we will discover who and who is not in the light? > > > What the hell is a variant of TM? > > There's zero and non-zero, how many other variations are there? > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak" > > wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > [...] > >> > > > > > > > >> > cunt. > >> > > >> insect. > >> > > >>> microbe. > > > >> virus. > > > > prion. > > Next. > I'm sticking with insect, though virus resonates too :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "nablus108" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > snip > > I'm just having a peek into your future my friend. It's spontanous, > can't help it. Amend your ways. Why create more karma than necessary. > We should long for the opposite. Nabby, so far you're judge & jury. Sounds like you're ready to be executioner as well. How bout it? > > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak" > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: [...] >> > > > > > >> > cunt. >> > >> insect. >> >>> microbe. > >> virus. > > prion. Next. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
Correction: for the record I dropped practice for a few weeks after seeing the look in MMYs eyes whilst standing near him in Royal Albert Hall London in the mid-1970's. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I have been practising transcendental meditation twice a day since > October 1970. > Oh a few times when I have been travelling or sick, I guess I went to > sleep, did anyone else go there? Oh, and for the sake of research I > have experimented with variants of the technique for some days at a > time. > But there are some who wish to believe that regularity in meditation > equals sawing away critical functions of the brain. Strangely that is > what opponents of TM believe. It is ironic to get so much flack from > those who are actually practising TM. > I question the motives of those who misrepresent me on this forum and > on other TM-related forums, it is their agenda that ought to be > scrutinised, perhaps we will discover who and who is not in the light? > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" > > wrote: > > > > > > on 8/7/06 4:32 PM, Paul Mason at premanandpaul@ wrote: > > > > > > I have been practising transcendental meditation regularly for > well > > > over three decades now, but that has not made me a 'true > believer'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay, it is time for me to own up. I have sensed Guru Dev > > > > behind my > > > > > > > research work since way way back, whether it be wandering > > in > > > > the > > > > > > > jungle chatting with swamis or trawling the internet or > > > > puzzling over > > > > > > > the meaning of a rarely used Sanskrit word. > > > > > > > I guess I am an unlikely conduit for his teachings, but > as > > > far > > > > as I > > > > > > > am concerned, I work on his behalf. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you claiming that Guru Dev wants you to > > > > > > denigrate Maharishi, Paul? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * > > > > > > > > Paul Mason is just confused, so it is pointless to ask about > his > > > > motives, as he does not understand them. Mason has posted here > > > > that "TM brings the light," yet he no longer practices TM. All > > this > > > > talk of working for Guru Dev is just an attempt to rationalize > > his > > > > inability to practice a technique which he knows would bring > > > > enlightenment. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > Well, apparently, there is either a semantic problem here > > (by "regular" you mean sporadic practice of TM, and not everyday > > twice a day practice of TM), or you are contradicting what you have > > posted before to the effect that you do not practice TM every day, > > and have not practiced TM for long periods of time during that > three > > decades you refer to. > > > > The question comes, if you have actually been practicing TM > regularly > > (everyday, twice a day) for more than 30 years, how is it that you > > still do not believe in the efficacy of TM, but keep trying to > insist > > that Maharishi is not respecting the desire of Guru Dev to > enlighten > > the world by teaching TM, which by your own admission "brings the > > light"? > > > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I have been practising transcendental meditation twice a day since > October 1970. > Oh a few times when I have been travelling or sick, I guess I went to > sleep, did anyone else go there? Oh, and for the sake of research I > have experimented with variants of the technique for some days at a > time. > But there are some who wish to believe that regularity in meditation > equals sawing away critical functions of the brain. Strangely that is > what opponents of TM believe. It is ironic to get so much flack from > those who are actually practising TM. > I question the motives of those who misrepresent me on this forum and > on other TM-related forums, it is their agenda that ought to be > scrutinised, perhaps we will discover who and who is not in the light? What the hell is a variant of TM? There's zero and non-zero, how many other variations are there? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Just to clarify, I think Jim's handling his report- > ing of his own subjective experiences fairly well. > But I have seen other folks, in the Rama trip and > others, who *definitely* used their "visions of the > now-dead teacher" to set themselves up as "the new > teacher," and to develop a fanatical following who > hovered around them waiting for the next "message > from the teacher." And often to pay them a great > deal of money for "delivering" these "messages." > Glad you approve ;-) As I've said before the only reason I talk about this stuff at all is to let people know it is NORMAL, and one doesn't have to be special in the least for such experiences. That is something that personally confounds me is this very artificial boundary between certain experiences and states of being, and people's perceptions of them. Especially some here who've been meditating forever, ex TM teachers, etc. No big deal. PS if anyone feels like they just have to pay me a great deal of money, hey let me know, and I'll gladly share my address! ;-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
I have been practising transcendental meditation twice a day since October 1970. Oh a few times when I have been travelling or sick, I guess I went to sleep, did anyone else go there? Oh, and for the sake of research I have experimented with variants of the technique for some days at a time. But there are some who wish to believe that regularity in meditation equals sawing away critical functions of the brain. Strangely that is what opponents of TM believe. It is ironic to get so much flack from those who are actually practising TM. I question the motives of those who misrepresent me on this forum and on other TM-related forums, it is their agenda that ought to be scrutinised, perhaps we will discover who and who is not in the light? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" > wrote: > > > > on 8/7/06 4:32 PM, Paul Mason at premanandpaul@ wrote: > > > > I have been practising transcendental meditation regularly for well > > over three decades now, but that has not made me a 'true believer'. > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay, it is time for me to own up. I have sensed Guru Dev > > > behind my > > > > > > research work since way way back, whether it be wandering > in > > > the > > > > > > jungle chatting with swamis or trawling the internet or > > > puzzling over > > > > > > the meaning of a rarely used Sanskrit word. > > > > > > I guess I am an unlikely conduit for his teachings, but as > > far > > > as I > > > > > > am concerned, I work on his behalf. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you claiming that Guru Dev wants you to > > > > > denigrate Maharishi, Paul? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * > > > > > > Paul Mason is just confused, so it is pointless to ask about his > > > motives, as he does not understand them. Mason has posted here > > > that "TM brings the light," yet he no longer practices TM. All > this > > > talk of working for Guru Dev is just an attempt to rationalize > his > > > inability to practice a technique which he knows would bring > > > enlightenment. > > > > > > > > > ** > > Well, apparently, there is either a semantic problem here > (by "regular" you mean sporadic practice of TM, and not everyday > twice a day practice of TM), or you are contradicting what you have > posted before to the effect that you do not practice TM every day, > and have not practiced TM for long periods of time during that three > decades you refer to. > > The question comes, if you have actually been practicing TM regularly > (everyday, twice a day) for more than 30 years, how is it that you > still do not believe in the efficacy of TM, but keep trying to insist > that Maharishi is not respecting the desire of Guru Dev to enlighten > the world by teaching TM, which by your own admission "brings the > light"? > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > >> Unfortunately, Barry can't deal with teachers who > > deal in contradictions and have different answers > > to life's questions, depending on the state of > > attention or POV that is in operation at the time. > > > > > > > cunt. > insect. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > on 8/7/06 4:32 PM, Paul Mason at premanandpaul@ wrote: > > I have been practising transcendental meditation regularly for well > over three decades now, but that has not made me a 'true believer'. > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante > wrote: > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" > wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Okay, it is time for me to own up. I have sensed Guru Dev > > behind my > > > > > research work since way way back, whether it be wandering in > > the > > > > > jungle chatting with swamis or trawling the internet or > > puzzling over > > > > > the meaning of a rarely used Sanskrit word. > > > > > I guess I am an unlikely conduit for his teachings, but as > far > > as I > > > > > am concerned, I work on his behalf. > > > > > > > > > > Are you claiming that Guru Dev wants you to > > > > denigrate Maharishi, Paul? > > > > > > > > > > > * > > > > Paul Mason is just confused, so it is pointless to ask about his > > motives, as he does not understand them. Mason has posted here > > that "TM brings the light," yet he no longer practices TM. All this > > talk of working for Guru Dev is just an attempt to rationalize his > > inability to practice a technique which he knows would bring > > enlightenment. > > > ** Well, apparently, there is either a semantic problem here (by "regular" you mean sporadic practice of TM, and not everyday twice a day practice of TM), or you are contradicting what you have posted before to the effect that you do not practice TM every day, and have not practiced TM for long periods of time during that three decades you refer to. The question comes, if you have actually been practicing TM regularly (everyday, twice a day) for more than 30 years, how is it that you still do not believe in the efficacy of TM, but keep trying to insist that Maharishi is not respecting the desire of Guru Dev to enlighten the world by teaching TM, which by your own admission "brings the light"? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
on 8/7/06 4:32 PM, Paul Mason at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have been practising transcendental meditation regularly for well over three decades now, but that has not made me a 'true believer'. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Okay, it is time for me to own up. I have sensed Guru Dev > behind my > > > > research work since way way back, whether it be wandering in > the > > > > jungle chatting with swamis or trawling the internet or > puzzling over > > > > the meaning of a rarely used Sanskrit word. > > > > I guess I am an unlikely conduit for his teachings, but as far > as I > > > > am concerned, I work on his behalf. > > > > > > > Are you claiming that Guru Dev wants you to > > > denigrate Maharishi, Paul? > > > > > > > * > > Paul Mason is just confused, so it is pointless to ask about his > motives, as he does not understand them. Mason has posted here > that "TM brings the light," yet he no longer practices TM. All this > talk of working for Guru Dev is just an attempt to rationalize his > inability to practice a technique which he knows would bring > enlightenment. > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "nablus108" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" > wrote: > > > > What bar are you propping up today? > > I'm just having a peek into your future my friend. It's spontanous, > can't help it. Amend your ways. Why create more karma than necessary. > We should long for the opposite. What does amount of karma have to do with anything? Karma is unavoidable. To be alive is to generate infinite amounts. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Vision of Guru Dev by MMY? Never heard it before today. > Never heard of him 'painting a picture' before, unless you mean > colouring a photograph which you mentioned over on the googlegroup > many many months back, as I recall. I heard that MMY had a "direct inspiration" from Gurudev to start teaching. That's quite vague, compared to "saw a vision." It also doesn't make sense given MMY's apparently beliefs about how higher states of consciousness work. As far as I can tell, he believes that the images and statues of the devas are allegorical more than faithful visual representations of them. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "nablus108" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ingegerd" > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" > > wrote: > > > > > > Okay, it is time for me to own up. I have sensed Guru Dev behind > > my > > > research work since way way back, whether it be wandering in the > > > jungle chatting with swamis or trawling the internet or puzzling > > over > > > the meaning of a rarely used Sanskrit word. > > > I guess I am an unlikely conduit for his teachings, but as far as > > I > > > am concerned, I work on his behalf. > > Care for some details on this ? Why do you, some stupid, greedy > little fellow who is infamous for writing a redicelous "biography" of > Maharishi, now sensing "Guru Dev behind my research..." ? > > Lot's was right in his insesitive wrath in your direction: You are > the scambug of this earth; Paul Mason, what you are doing is simple > and gross. > > Why Maharishi cut your scorpion-country off is getting more and more > obvious with people like you on board. > > Obviously, you will reap what you sow. As we all shall. But you, my > friend; be prepared for some extras. > Spake Nablus, channeling Peter Klutz. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" > > wrote: > > > > > > Okay, it is time for me to own up. I have sensed Guru Dev behind my > > > research work since way way back, whether it be wandering in the > > > jungle chatting with swamis or trawling the internet or puzzling over > > > the meaning of a rarely used Sanskrit word. > > > I guess I am an unlikely conduit for his teachings, but as far as I > > > am concerned, I work on his behalf. > > > > Are you claiming that Guru Dev wants you to > > denigrate Maharishi, Paul? > > > * Paul Mason is just confused, so it is pointless to ask about his motives, as he does not understand them. Mason has posted here that "TM brings the light," yet he no longer practices TM. All this talk of working for Guru Dev is just an attempt to rationalize his inability to practice a technique which he knows would bring enlightenment. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "nablus108" > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ingegerd" > > wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Okay, it is time for me to own up. I have sensed Guru Dev > behind > > > my > > > > research work since way way back, whether it be wandering in > the > > > > jungle chatting with swamis or trawling the internet or > puzzling > > > over > > > > the meaning of a rarely used Sanskrit word. > > > > I guess I am an unlikely conduit for his teachings, but as far > as > > > I > > > > am concerned, I work on his behalf. > > > > Care for some details on this ? Why do you, some stupid, greedy > > little fellow who is infamous for writing a redicelous "biography" > of > > Maharishi, now sensing "Guru Dev behind my research..." ? > > > > Lot's was right in his insesitive wrath in your direction: You > are > > the scambug of this earth; Paul Mason, what you are doing is > simple > > and gross. > > > > Why Maharishi cut your scorpion-country off is getting more and > more > > obvious with people like you on board. > > > > Obviously, you will reap what you sow. As we all shall. But you, > my > > friend; be prepared for some extras. > > > > > Okay. > > I'm now fully convinced that this Nablus fellow is a troll. > > He's not even a meditator but someone who is out to discredit the > TMO and MMY by acting like a complete horse's ass. He sounds more > like a fundamentalist Christian with all this fire and brimstone. > Perhaps he is Peter from a.m.t. > Or Andrew Skolnick playing what he believs to be the role of a TM TBer... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" > > wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak" > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB > > > > > wrote: > > > > > >> Unfortunately, Barry can't deal with teachers who > > > > > > deal in contradictions and have different answers > > > > > > to life's questions, depending on the state of > > > > > > attention or POV that is in operation at the time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cunt. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm a cunt? > > > > > > > > What does that make Barry? > > > > > > A brachyphallic gugusse. > > > > A not-very-bright young man who trysts with priests?? > > > > something like that...not that I feel that way about Barry but > thought it a nice counterpoint to "cunt". Also, I just read it > in "Depraved and insulting English" and wanted to try it out. > brachyphallic doesn't appear on google save in reference to dogs. No definition. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" > wrote: > > > > Okay, it is time for me to own up. I have sensed Guru Dev behind my > > research work since way way back, whether it be wandering in the > > jungle chatting with swamis or trawling the internet or puzzling over > > the meaning of a rarely used Sanskrit word. > > I guess I am an unlikely conduit for his teachings, but as far as I > > am concerned, I work on his behalf. > > Are you claiming that Guru Dev wants you to > denigrate Maharishi, Paul? > By insinutation, Gurudev wants Paul to lay it all out and let people make their own decisions based on Paul's collection of quotes. Of course, as MMY has explained, he's not trying to get everyone to be just like him, and assumes that each religion and culture has found its own way of dealing with the issues of human behavior and interaction so what Gurudev says about an issue that is specific to the culture of India doesn't mean squat about some other culture or about the appropriateness of what one of his students might be doing in order to make Gurudev's teachings acultural. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak" > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB > wrote: > > >> Unfortunately, Barry can't deal with teachers who > > > deal in contradictions and have different answers > > > to life's questions, depending on the state of > > > attention or POV that is in operation at the time. > > > > > > > > > > > cunt. > > > > I'm a cunt? > > What does that make Barry? > > (HINT: The above is a quote from one of Barry's > attacks on me. Only the name has been changed.) > Well, THAT's different. Barry never says anything offensive. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > And that is a major role of the Guru to settle such disputes over the > meaning of the Shastras and clarify about apparent contradictions. > Which is why they are supposed to be so-o-o-o learned, AND be in the > light entirely. > Incidentally I am not presenting my own view on this, but that which > I have learned from the words of Guru Dev. > > See my previous response about the meaning of words. MMY doesn't pretend to have the detailed answers for individuals from different countries: he assumes that every religion has found its own appropriate implementation of the catagories of behavior described in the Shastras that is relevant for the time and culture that people find themselves in. The only sure constant is TM. Everything else gets added onto the person as their nervous system matures, so agonizing over the details is futile and counter-productive. > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: [...] > It is this last phenomenon I expect to happen a LOT > in the TM movement when Maharishi finally dies. I > expect there to be at least half a dozen folks who > start hearing "messages from Maharishi" and that > mini-cults will develop around each of them. On the > one hand (as a sociological phenomenon) it'll be > fun and fascinating to watch. On the other hand > (as an exercise in mind control and charlatanry) > it's IMO likely to get really ugly. > > Then again, maybe I'll be surprised and no one > will start claiming to be in almost daily "communi- > cation" with Maharishi after he dies. > > Yeah, right...like *that's* gonna happen... :-) > BUT, will it happen WITHIN the TMO? I suspect not. Anyone who starts claiming channeled knowledge will be oustracized immediately. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" > wrote: > > > > Guru Dev repeatedly said that he was not forwarding his own beliefs, > > but those of the Shastras & that others should live by the Shastras, > > & not by their own initiative. > > Yes, I believe so. But even the understanding of what the shastras are > saying can vary. The Shastras at places contradict themselves. As you > can see, there are even different practises in the Dasanami > Sampradaya, which was founded by Shankara. Shankara himself stated in > a famous poem, (not literally): > 'He who knows this Brahman, he is my teacher, be he Brahmin or > Chandala.' This is also Shastra. > > Sanskrit scripture evolved over time, just as with other religions. a word that had one meaning at one point in time might have an entirely different meaning 200 years later. MMY sidesteps the whole issue by taking the broadest possible interpretation of categories, and assuming that the details are modified by Nature as appropriate for a given society in a different era. IOW, what does it mean to practice compassion anyway? And "fidelity in marriage" has a radically different meaning for a land-owning female in 18th Century Tibet as compared to a female living in 21st Century Tehran. > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" > > wrote: > > > > > > > I've had an active relationship with His Holiness for many many > > > > years. > > > > Is it out of the norm? Sure! Yes! Of course! > > > > Is it absolutely real? Sure! Yes! Of course! > > > > > > > > Should I deny it, or not speak about it, or doubt my direct > > > > perception for the last 25 years, just because those who haven't > > had > > > > such an experience cannot comprehend it, or doubt it? > > > > > > The same question must have confronted Maharishi, when he was > > equally > > > inspired by visions of Guru Dev in 1955. With the slight difference, > > > that he had known him (and his vibe) in body, and was very well in a > > > position to judge the validity of his experience. Easy for anybody > > to > > > dismiss this, take an old lecture of GD out of context. Besides > > that, > > > we all know how often masters contradict themselves. Even Guru Dev > > > could have changed his mind, once he had left his brahmanical body > > and > > > his Shankaracharya position. > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Guru Dev repeatedly said that he was not forwarding his own beliefs, > but those of the Shastras & that others should live by the Shastras, > & not by their own initiative. > That was his job, afterall... While every good Catholic expects the Pope to be spontaneously doctrinally pure of heart, the fact is, regardless of his private thoughts on any matter, it is his duty to expouse the most conservative, Romanly pure doctrine in every utterance. Likewise with a Shankaracharya. MMY assigns himself the same task, but he interprets much of the doctrine quite differently than most. > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" > wrote: > > > > > I've had an active relationship with His Holiness for many many > > > years. > > > Is it out of the norm? Sure! Yes! Of course! > > > Is it absolutely real? Sure! Yes! Of course! > > > > > > Should I deny it, or not speak about it, or doubt my direct > > > perception for the last 25 years, just because those who haven't > had > > > such an experience cannot comprehend it, or doubt it? > > > > The same question must have confronted Maharishi, when he was > equally > > inspired by visions of Guru Dev in 1955. With the slight difference, > > that he had known him (and his vibe) in body, and was very well in a > > position to judge the validity of his experience. Easy for anybody > to > > dismiss this, take an old lecture of GD out of context. Besides > that, > > we all know how often masters contradict themselves. Even Guru Dev > > could have changed his mind, once he had left his brahmanical body > and > > his Shankaracharya position. > > > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
I have some notes from 9th February 1970, where MMY talks about the start of SRM, the notes is written from a Audio Tape: "When Guru Dev left his body I retired to the Himalayas where Guru Dev had met his Guru Dev. I felt I should go to Ramesh Waroom - I asked the saints. One was 90 years old. This was for me, after the Himalayas like stepping into mud. He advised against going. I decided to forget the trip. I went to Kungakumari - I had a divine revalation. I left and went to Tivendrum, to the biggest temple. I was followed by a man and he asked me to speak about the Himalayas - he arranged a 7 day lecture program and he supplied the topics. In 6 months I was lecturing in Dehli. At this stage I had never initiated anyone. When I got to Hardwar the philosophy had become clear - to turn the mind inward was easy! The message was readily accepted. I went to Kashmir and then to Bombay for the 89th birthday celebrations for Guru Dev. I held a 3 day seminar in Madras on saintly luminaries. At the end I said "I think this meditation can spiritually regenerate the world". During the applause I felt I should start a world movement. I announced it spontaneously. After a 6 months tour of south India I calculated at this rate it would take 200 years.". Ingegerd --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Vision of Guru Dev by MMY? Never heard it before today. > Never heard of him 'painting a picture' before, unless you mean > colouring a photograph which you mentioned over on the googlegroup > many many months back, as I recall. > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > He took GD's advice for himself... > > > > > > > > > > Uh, excuse me...it seems to me that Maharishi did > > > > > the *opposite* of taking Guru Dev's advice. According > > > > > to witnesses, that advice, given directly to Maharishi > > > > > in public while Guru Dev was alive, was that he should > > > > > *not* teach. Yet within a few years of Guru Dev's death, > > > > > there he was teaching. That doesn't strike me as > > > > > following one's teacher's advice. > > > > > > > > I was talking about the advice of the vision. > > > > > > No, you are talking about the advice of the *supposed* > > > vision. There has never been, nor will there ever be, > > > any evidence that such a vision ever happened. > > > > > > I'm just making this point because you seem to believe > > > that because you believe in this "vision" it's a done > > > deal, and that it really happened. I make no such > > > assumption. I spent 14 years in the TM movement with- > > > out hearing *any* reference to such a vision before > > > you wrote about it a couple of posts ago. > > > > Thats because you are basically dump. > > > > > > He took this advice for himself and not for others. > > > > > > If it happened. Again, I've never heard such a story > > > in all my years. If I had, unlike you I probably > > > wouldn't have believed it. > > > > > > Nitpick all you want about the so-called "differences" > > > you perceive between one person claiming to have had > > > a vision and another. Bottom line is that anyone can > > > claim anything they bloody well want to about "visions," > > > and there is nothing that *anyone* can *ever* do to > > > prove them either true or false. It's ALL a matter of > > > belief. > > > > > > In this particular case, you seem to have heard and > > > chosen to believe a rumor THAT IS NOT EVEN MOVEMENT > > > DOGMA. I never heard such a story, and I'd be willing > > > to believe that many others here haven't, either. > > > > See, I have friends in India, who visisted this couple MMY was > staying > > with, when he had the vision. In fact, he painted a picture of GD > > after having the vision. MMY is shown in the history book with this > > particular picture, its on page 53. That you didn't hear it is not > my > > fault. What I don't understand: Is there any injunction here on the > > list, to only repeat movement dogma (PS caps are considered shouting > > and impolite) > > > > > You did hear such a story, from somewhere, and because > > > you're just a bowl of mush, bhakti-speaking, you chose > > > to believe it. As I said, I probably wouldn't have. > > > > I heard the story from a friend who visited this couple. Seems to > > really upset you. > > > > > > > > > When he [MMY] started in Kerala, he was surrounded by > > > > orthodox Brahmins, and it seems he easily convinced them. > > > > > > He convinced you, and all you did was hear a rumor > > > that isn't even an established part of the TM teachings. :-) > > > > So what? > > > > > > > > > > If there is anything like 'good' or 'bad' at all. My point is: > its > >
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
Comment below: ** --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jyouells2000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" > wrote: > > > > Does anyone have a copy of the photograph that t3rinity is referring > > to? It is to the left of MMY on page 53 of 'Thirty Years Around the > > World'. It looks like the photo that the puja portrait was painted > > from. An in-transit picture is at:- > > http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/sources/text/GuidingLight.htm > > I thought that the puju portrait was painted by Dr. Varma , > Maharishi's uncle. > > JohnY > **Snip to End** The portrait of Guru Dev that we received as initiators was signed by M.T.V. Acharya. I had always heard Dr. Varma referred to as Raj Varma, which I assumed was his name but could be just an honorific. So, depending on what Dr. Varma's name was, M.T.V. Acharya could be him and then Acharya would be a designation that he was at a high level of achievement as an artist. However, I don't believe that's the case at all, inasmuch as the styles between this portrait and all of Dr. Varma's other portraits are so radically different. Dr. Varma was a self-taught artist and all his paintings show elements characteristic of the auto-didact: problems with perspective, irregularities of scale, confusions between color and value, etc. The portrait we received for puja is a painting on top of a photo of Guru Dev (the same photo which can be found at Paul Mason's site, near the bottom of the opening page, among the quotes and reproduced in blue) and it seems that there are several different, earlier versions before the one we were given. This photo image of Guru Dev is likely the one that Maharishi used to color in when he was first heading south and began to teach. Since Dr. Varma was a photographer and photo retoucher, it's not unlikely that Maharishi would have had familiarity with and access to the photo retouching inks that he used in his profession. All of Dr. Varma's paintings of Guru Dev also utilize the same 3/4 pose of Guru Dev's body from that same photo; only in Dr. Varma's official portraits of Guru Dev on the lion throne he positions the head of Guru Dev so that it's a full frontal. An interesting (and not ineffective) technique but also very typical of what you'd expect of a self-taught artist. In the later years when Dr. Varma was just churning these paintings out they began to look quite grotesque with the head of Guru Dev becoming quite large relative to the body's proportions and sort of sinking down into the body so that the image had a kind of hunchbacked effect. Very much different from the erect, yet comfortable posture that Guru Dev always seems to abide in as shown in all the photos we have so far. Before I sent this I looked for and found a photo of a portrait of Maharishi painted by Dr. Varma sometime in the 80's. In the lower right hand corner of the image he has signed it Raj R.P. Varma. So that seems to conclusively prove that he didn't do the standard puja portrait. I'll upload a copy of that image to the files later. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
Isn't the puja painting by Acharya. Clearly, Raj Varma painted portraits of Guru Dev, but I'm not sure which. I wrote to him back in the 1970's and asked him for any photos of Guru Dev that he had taken. He sent me about half a dozen which alas are no longer accessible, but hopefully, they will resurface somewhere one of these days. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ingegerd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jyouells2000" > wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" > > wrote: > > > > > > Does anyone have a copy of the photograph that t3rinity is > referring > > > to? It is to the left of MMY on page 53 of 'Thirty Years Around > the > > > World'. It looks like the photo that the puja portrait was > painted > > > from. An in-transit picture is at:- > > > http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/sources/text/GuidingLight.htm > > > > I thought that the puju portrait was painted by Dr. Varma , > > Maharishi's uncle. > > > > JohnY > > That is what I read. I thing it was said in book of Else Denmark?? > She was in Rishikesh when Dr. Varma was working with the picture. > Unfortunately, I have given away almost all books of MMY - so I am > not able to control it. > Ingegerd> > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" > > > premanandpaul@ wrote: > > > > > > > > Vision of Guru Dev by MMY? Never heard it before today. > > > > Never heard of him 'painting a picture' before, unless you mean > > > > colouring a photograph which you mentioned over on the > googlegroup > > > > many many months back, as I recall. > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity > > > wrote: > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He took GD's advice for himself... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Uh, excuse me...it seems to me that Maharishi did > > > > > > > > the *opposite* of taking Guru Dev's advice. According > > > > > > > > to witnesses, that advice, given directly to Maharishi > > > > > > > > in public while Guru Dev was alive, was that he should > > > > > > > > *not* teach. Yet within a few years of Guru Dev's > death, > > > > > > > > there he was teaching. That doesn't strike me as > > > > > > > > following one's teacher's advice. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was talking about the advice of the vision. > > > > > > > > > > > > No, you are talking about the advice of the *supposed* > > > > > > vision. There has never been, nor will there ever be, > > > > > > any evidence that such a vision ever happened. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm just making this point because you seem to believe > > > > > > that because you believe in this "vision" it's a done > > > > > > deal, and that it really happened. I make no such > > > > > > assumption. I spent 14 years in the TM movement with- > > > > > > out hearing *any* reference to such a vision before > > > > > > you wrote about it a couple of posts ago. > > > > > > > > > > Thats because you are basically dump. > > > > > > > > > > > > He took this advice for himself and not for others. > > > > > > > > > > > > If it happened. Again, I've never heard such a story > > > > > > in all my years. If I had, unlike you I probably > > > > > > wouldn't have believed it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Nitpick all you want about the so-called "differences" > > > > > > you perceive between one person claiming to have had > > > > > > a vision and another. Bottom line is that anyone can > > > > > > claim anything they bloody well want to about "visions," > > > > > > and there is nothing that *anyone* can *ever* do to > > > > > > prove them either true or false. It's ALL a matter of > > > > > > belief. > > > > > > > > > > > > In this particular case, you seem to have heard and > > > > > > chosen to believe a rumor THAT IS NOT EVEN MOVEMENT > > > > > > DOGMA. I never heard such a story, and I'd be willing > > > > > > to believe that many others here haven't, either. > > > > > > > > > > See, I have friends in India, who visisted this couple MMY > was > > > > staying > > > > > with, when he had the vision. In fact, he painted a picture > of GD > > > > > after having the vision. MMY is shown in the history book > with > > > this > > > > > particular picture, its on page 53. That you didn't hear it > is > > > not > > > > my > > > > > fault. What I don't understand: Is there any injunction here > on > > > the > > > > > list, to only repeat movement dogma (PS caps are considered > > > shouting > > > > > and impolite) > > > > > > > > > > > You did hear such a story, from somewhere, and because > > > > > > you're just a bowl of mush, bhakti-speaking, you chose > > > > > > to believe it. As I said, I probably wouldn't have. > > > > > > > > > > I heard the s
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- nablus108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > What bar are you propping up today? > > I'm just having a peek into your future my friend. > It's spontanous, > can't help it. Amend your ways. Why create more > karma than necessary. > We should long for the opposite. I am so impressed with your psychic ability and how special you are. I'm glad to be able to talk to you. I'm blessed. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- shempmcgurk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "nablus108" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > > Why Maharishi cut your scorpion-country off is > getting more and > > > more > > > > obvious with people like you on board. > > > > > > > > Obviously, you will reap what you sow. As we > all shall. But > you, > > > my > > > > friend; be prepared for some extras. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay. > > > > > > I'm now fully convinced that this Nablus fellow > is a troll. > > > > > > He's not even a meditator but someone who is out > to discredit > the > > > TMO and MMY by acting like a complete horse's > ass. He sounds > more > > > like a fundamentalist Christian with all this > fire and > brimstone. > > > Perhaps he is Peter from a.m.t. > > > > Funny. > > Your problem is that you are not understanding > what I write. > > > > > I think I understand fear-mongering. Remember, this is the guy who believes that a gay English fart channels (opps, sorry, is "over-shadowed") by the next world avatar and has fuzzy pictures to prove it. > > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Or go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > and click 'Join This Group!' > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jyouells2000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" > wrote: > > > > Does anyone have a copy of the photograph that t3rinity is referring > > to? It is to the left of MMY on page 53 of 'Thirty Years Around the > > World'. It looks like the photo that the puja portrait was painted > > from. An in-transit picture is at:- > > http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/sources/text/GuidingLight.htm > > I thought that the puju portrait was painted by Dr. Varma , > Maharishi's uncle. > > JohnY That is what I read. I thing it was said in book of Else Denmark?? She was in Rishikesh when Dr. Varma was working with the picture. Unfortunately, I have given away almost all books of MMY - so I am not able to control it. Ingegerd> > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" > > premanandpaul@ wrote: > > > > > > Vision of Guru Dev by MMY? Never heard it before today. > > > Never heard of him 'painting a picture' before, unless you mean > > > colouring a photograph which you mentioned over on the googlegroup > > > many many months back, as I recall. > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity > > wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He took GD's advice for himself... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Uh, excuse me...it seems to me that Maharishi did > > > > > > > the *opposite* of taking Guru Dev's advice. According > > > > > > > to witnesses, that advice, given directly to Maharishi > > > > > > > in public while Guru Dev was alive, was that he should > > > > > > > *not* teach. Yet within a few years of Guru Dev's death, > > > > > > > there he was teaching. That doesn't strike me as > > > > > > > following one's teacher's advice. > > > > > > > > > > > > I was talking about the advice of the vision. > > > > > > > > > > No, you are talking about the advice of the *supposed* > > > > > vision. There has never been, nor will there ever be, > > > > > any evidence that such a vision ever happened. > > > > > > > > > > I'm just making this point because you seem to believe > > > > > that because you believe in this "vision" it's a done > > > > > deal, and that it really happened. I make no such > > > > > assumption. I spent 14 years in the TM movement with- > > > > > out hearing *any* reference to such a vision before > > > > > you wrote about it a couple of posts ago. > > > > > > > > Thats because you are basically dump. > > > > > > > > > > He took this advice for himself and not for others. > > > > > > > > > > If it happened. Again, I've never heard such a story > > > > > in all my years. If I had, unlike you I probably > > > > > wouldn't have believed it. > > > > > > > > > > Nitpick all you want about the so-called "differences" > > > > > you perceive between one person claiming to have had > > > > > a vision and another. Bottom line is that anyone can > > > > > claim anything they bloody well want to about "visions," > > > > > and there is nothing that *anyone* can *ever* do to > > > > > prove them either true or false. It's ALL a matter of > > > > > belief. > > > > > > > > > > In this particular case, you seem to have heard and > > > > > chosen to believe a rumor THAT IS NOT EVEN MOVEMENT > > > > > DOGMA. I never heard such a story, and I'd be willing > > > > > to believe that many others here haven't, either. > > > > > > > > See, I have friends in India, who visisted this couple MMY was > > > staying > > > > with, when he had the vision. In fact, he painted a picture of GD > > > > after having the vision. MMY is shown in the history book with > > this > > > > particular picture, its on page 53. That you didn't hear it is > > not > > > my > > > > fault. What I don't understand: Is there any injunction here on > > the > > > > list, to only repeat movement dogma (PS caps are considered > > shouting > > > > and impolite) > > > > > > > > > You did hear such a story, from somewhere, and because > > > > > you're just a bowl of mush, bhakti-speaking, you chose > > > > > to believe it. As I said, I probably wouldn't have. > > > > > > > > I heard the story from a friend who visited this couple. Seems to > > > > really upset you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When he [MMY] started in Kerala, he was surrounded by > > > > > > orthodox Brahmins, and it seems he easily convinced them. > > > > > > > > > > He convinced you, and all you did was hear a rumor > > > > > that isn't even an established part of the TM teachings. :- ) > > > > > > > > So what? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If there is anything like 'good' or 'bad' at all. My point > > is: > > > its > > > > > > always a personal thing. Why bother about the personal > > decision > > > of > > > > > > others, and try to convince
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: [Michael wrote:] > > Isn't this forum open to all for public discussion? > > Yet you go out of your frame constantly. Saying: > > 'Fuck off and die' claiming this to be just a nice > > american idiom. > > Contrary to what Judy told you, it really *is* a > fairly innocuous American idiom. Innocuous: "Not likely to give offense or to arouse strong feelings or hostility," per my dictionary. "Fuck off and die" is intended to give offense and arouse strong feelings of hostility, contrary to what Barry is telling Michael. Not a *threat*, but most definitely not "innocuous" (which is what I said earlier). > I explained what > I meant by it -- I was dismissing you, writing you > off completely, telling you to go away and argue > with someone who takes you seriously, because I > do not. "Fuck off and die" is what you say when you are extremely angry. It's not what you say to someone whom you don't take seriously. > > And because I believe something a friend tells me from > > an eyewitness, I am a cultist, and paranoid at that. > > See what I mean about not getting it? > > What makes you a paranoid cultist is the fact that > *you* are upset because I just didn't automatically > buy your story as true when you said it. No, he's pointing out that the story so upsets you that you called him a paranoid cultist for believing it. > You're just not that important to me, one way or > another. Which is why Barry banged out another long, insulting rant: to convince Michael that he is just not that important to Barry. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "nablus108" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Why Maharishi cut your scorpion-country off is getting more and > > more > > > obvious with people like you on board. > > > > > > Obviously, you will reap what you sow. As we all shall. But you, > > my > > > friend; be prepared for some extras. > > > > > > > > > Okay. > > > > I'm now fully convinced that this Nablus fellow is a troll. > > > > He's not even a meditator but someone who is out to discredit the > > TMO and MMY by acting like a complete horse's ass. He sounds more > > like a fundamentalist Christian with all this fire and brimstone. > > Perhaps he is Peter from a.m.t. > > Funny. > Your problem is that you are not understanding what I write. Nablus, I just finished a rockin' stellar program of 4 hours. You wouldn't believe what happened at the end. I was running through the sutras when all of a sudden I cognized your future! My friend, I have some dark news for you. Don't buy any long playing records. Your remaining time on this earth is very short. But cheer up! You will be reborn in England to live a brief life as a chimney sweep.Onward and upward, eh? Stiff upper lip old chap! To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "nablus108" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Why Maharishi cut your scorpion-country off is getting more and > > more > > > obvious with people like you on board. > > > > > > Obviously, you will reap what you sow. As we all shall. But you, > > my > > > friend; be prepared for some extras. > > > > > > > > > Okay. > > > > I'm now fully convinced that this Nablus fellow is a troll. > > > > He's not even a meditator but someone who is out to discredit the > > TMO and MMY by acting like a complete horse's ass. He sounds more > > like a fundamentalist Christian with all this fire and brimstone. > > Perhaps he is Peter from a.m.t. > > Funny. > Your problem is that you are not understanding what I write. > I think I understand fear-mongering. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Does anyone have a copy of the photograph that t3rinity is referring > to? It is to the left of MMY on page 53 of 'Thirty Years Around the > World'. It looks like the photo that the puja portrait was painted > from. An in-transit picture is at:- > http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/sources/text/GuidingLight.htm I thought that the puju portrait was painted by Dr. Varma , Maharishi's uncle. JohnY > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" > premanandpaul@ wrote: > > > > Vision of Guru Dev by MMY? Never heard it before today. > > Never heard of him 'painting a picture' before, unless you mean > > colouring a photograph which you mentioned over on the googlegroup > > many many months back, as I recall. > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB > wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity > wrote: > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > He took GD's advice for himself... > > > > > > > > > > > > Uh, excuse me...it seems to me that Maharishi did > > > > > > the *opposite* of taking Guru Dev's advice. According > > > > > > to witnesses, that advice, given directly to Maharishi > > > > > > in public while Guru Dev was alive, was that he should > > > > > > *not* teach. Yet within a few years of Guru Dev's death, > > > > > > there he was teaching. That doesn't strike me as > > > > > > following one's teacher's advice. > > > > > > > > > > I was talking about the advice of the vision. > > > > > > > > No, you are talking about the advice of the *supposed* > > > > vision. There has never been, nor will there ever be, > > > > any evidence that such a vision ever happened. > > > > > > > > I'm just making this point because you seem to believe > > > > that because you believe in this "vision" it's a done > > > > deal, and that it really happened. I make no such > > > > assumption. I spent 14 years in the TM movement with- > > > > out hearing *any* reference to such a vision before > > > > you wrote about it a couple of posts ago. > > > > > > Thats because you are basically dump. > > > > > > > > He took this advice for himself and not for others. > > > > > > > > If it happened. Again, I've never heard such a story > > > > in all my years. If I had, unlike you I probably > > > > wouldn't have believed it. > > > > > > > > Nitpick all you want about the so-called "differences" > > > > you perceive between one person claiming to have had > > > > a vision and another. Bottom line is that anyone can > > > > claim anything they bloody well want to about "visions," > > > > and there is nothing that *anyone* can *ever* do to > > > > prove them either true or false. It's ALL a matter of > > > > belief. > > > > > > > > In this particular case, you seem to have heard and > > > > chosen to believe a rumor THAT IS NOT EVEN MOVEMENT > > > > DOGMA. I never heard such a story, and I'd be willing > > > > to believe that many others here haven't, either. > > > > > > See, I have friends in India, who visisted this couple MMY was > > staying > > > with, when he had the vision. In fact, he painted a picture of GD > > > after having the vision. MMY is shown in the history book with > this > > > particular picture, its on page 53. That you didn't hear it is > not > > my > > > fault. What I don't understand: Is there any injunction here on > the > > > list, to only repeat movement dogma (PS caps are considered > shouting > > > and impolite) > > > > > > > You did hear such a story, from somewhere, and because > > > > you're just a bowl of mush, bhakti-speaking, you chose > > > > to believe it. As I said, I probably wouldn't have. > > > > > > I heard the story from a friend who visited this couple. Seems to > > > really upset you. > > > > > > > > > > > > When he [MMY] started in Kerala, he was surrounded by > > > > > orthodox Brahmins, and it seems he easily convinced them. > > > > > > > > He convinced you, and all you did was hear a rumor > > > > that isn't even an established part of the TM teachings. :-) > > > > > > So what? > > > > > > > > > > > > > If there is anything like 'good' or 'bad' at all. My point > is: > > its > > > > > always a personal thing. Why bother about the personal > decision > > of > > > > > others, and try to convince them they were wrong, Barry? > > > > > > > > We've gone down this road before. I am NOT trying to > > > > convince you of anything. That's just how you *interpret* > > > > hearing ideas other than your own, as if the person who > > > > has those other ideas is trying to convince you of them. > > > > They're not. You're just being a paranoid cultist, > > > > that's all. :-) > > > > > > So, Barry, you are really a nice guy. Isn't this forum open to > all > > for > > > public discussion? Yet you go out of your frame constantly. > Saying: > > > '
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
> Why Maharishi cut your scorpion-country off is getting more and > more > > obvious with people like you on board. > > > > Obviously, you will reap what you sow. As we all shall. But you, > my > > friend; be prepared for some extras. > > > > > Okay. > > I'm now fully convinced that this Nablus fellow is a troll. > > He's not even a meditator but someone who is out to discredit the > TMO and MMY by acting like a complete horse's ass. He sounds more > like a fundamentalist Christian with all this fire and brimstone. > Perhaps he is Peter from a.m.t. Funny. Your problem is that you are not understanding what I write. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > What bar are you propping up today? I'm just having a peek into your future my friend. It's spontanous, can't help it. Amend your ways. Why create more karma than necessary. We should long for the opposite. > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "nablus108" > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ingegerd" > > wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Okay, it is time for me to own up. I have sensed Guru Dev > behind > > > my > > > > research work since way way back, whether it be wandering in > the > > > > jungle chatting with swamis or trawling the internet or > puzzling > > > over > > > > the meaning of a rarely used Sanskrit word. > > > > I guess I am an unlikely conduit for his teachings, but as far > as > > > I > > > > am concerned, I work on his behalf. > > > > Care for some details on this ? Why do you, some stupid, greedy > > little fellow who is infamous for writing a redicelous "biography" > of > > Maharishi, now sensing "Guru Dev behind my research..." ? > > > > Lot's was right in his insesitive wrath in your direction: You are > > the scambug of this earth; Paul Mason, what you are doing is simple > > and gross. > > > > Why Maharishi cut your scorpion-country off is getting more and > more > > obvious with people like you on board. > > > > Obviously, you will reap what you sow. As we all shall. But you, my > > friend; be prepared for some extras. > > > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak" > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > > > Unfortunately, Barry can't deal with teachers who > > > deal in contradictions and have different answers > > > to life's questions, depending on the state of > > > attention or POV that is in operation at the time. > > > > > > > > > > cunt. > > Now, now. :-) > > Alice is just acting and thinking the way she's > been taught to act and think by her enlightened > masters. Doncha know that intellectual consistency > is only a good thing when you can accuse someone > of not having it. :-) > I know, but MMY always taught me to speak the sweet truth! To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "nablus108" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" > > wrote: > > > > > > Okay, it is time for me to own up. I have sensed Guru Dev behind > > my > > > research work since way way back, whether it be wandering in the > > > jungle chatting with swamis or trawling the internet or puzzling > > over > > > the meaning of a rarely used Sanskrit word. > > > I guess I am an unlikely conduit for his teachings, but as far as > > I > > > am concerned, I work on his behalf. > > Care for some details on this ? Why do you, some stupid, greedy > little fellow who is infamous for writing a redicelous "biography" of > Maharishi, now sensing "Guru Dev behind my research..." ? > snip Now we're heating up here! lurk > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
I'll go through this one last time just out of a sense of completeness, even though I know that you won't hear a word of it. > > In this particular case, you seem to have heard and > > chosen to believe a rumor THAT IS NOT EVEN MOVEMENT > > DOGMA. I never heard such a story, and I'd be willing > > to believe that many others here haven't, either. > > See, I have friends in India, who visisted this couple MMY > was staying with, when he had the vision. In fact, he painted > a picture of GD after having the vision. MMY is shown in the > history book with this particular picture, its on page 53. Cool. So now you've clarified where you heard the story, and that it's at best third-party hearsay. That's cool. Whatever floats your boat. Believe anything you want. I don't have any problems with you believing this story or any other. Believe what you want. > That you didn't hear it is not my fault. The thing you don't seem to understand, Michael, is that I almost certainly wouldn't have believed it if I had heard it, and directly from Maharishi himself, *during* the time that I was one of his teachers. I probably wouldn't have disbelieved it, either. I would have just written it off as one of those things you hear from time to time and have no way of determining the truth of, so why bother thinking about it much at all. > What I don't understand: Is there any injunction here > on the list, to only repeat movement dogma You can repeat any hearsay you want to here, Michael. Just don't expect people to automat- ically believe it the way you seem to. > (PS caps are considered shouting and impolite) But it's an improvement over "Fuck off and die," right? I put things in caps with you because you don't seem to actually read them otherwise. :-) > > You did hear such a story, from somewhere, and because > > you're just a bowl of mush, bhakti-speaking, you chose > > to believe it. As I said, I probably wouldn't have. > > I heard the story from a friend who visited this couple. > Seems to really upset you. No, it means nothing to me whatsoever. As I said, if at the height of my belief in TM and loyalty to the TM movement Maharishi had sat me down right in front of him and told me this same story, I would have listened politely, nodded, and then left and never thought about the story one way or another again. That's just the kinda guy I am. In contrast, based on your posts over the years, you strike me as the kind of person who will believe any damned thing that someone he has chosen to believe about other things tells him. Different strokes for different folks, that's all. > > We've gone down this road before. I am NOT trying to > > convince you of anything. That's just how you *interpret* > > hearing ideas other than your own, as if the person who > > has those other ideas is trying to convince you of them. > > They're not. You're just being a paranoid cultist, > > that's all. :-) > > So, Barry, you are really a nice guy. I'm sure you're one, too, when you're not feeling that the fact that other people don't believe the same things you do means that they're trying to convince you to believe what they believe. :-) > Isn't this forum open to all for public discussion? > Yet you go out of your frame constantly. Saying: > 'Fuck off and die' claiming this to be just a nice > american idiom. Contrary to what Judy told you, it really *is* a fairly innocuous American idiom. I explained what I meant by it -- I was dismissing you, writing you off completely, telling you to go away and argue with someone who takes you seriously, because I do not. I said so again in my last post, in nicer words, and you didn't get it then, either. > And because I believe something a friend tells me from > an eyewitness, I am a cultist, and paranoid at that. See what I mean about not getting it? What makes you a paranoid cultist is the fact that *you* are upset because I just didn't automatically buy your story as true when you said it. And the fact that you believe that I am trying to convince you to believe what I believe. I am not. That's just *you* being threatened by someone else's belief system, that's all. I will now make myself as clear as I possibly can. I have no interest in future discussions with you, ever, because YOU DON'T LISTEN, and because YOU GET ALL PARANOID AND DEFENSIVE when you encounter a belief system that is different from yours. It's YOU who tries to convince others to believe what he believes. You did it with me by trying to impress me with a silly third-hand story, and you're doing it with Paul by playing oneupsmanship "scripture games" with him about the caste system. I have zero interest in having conversations with people who seem only interested in evangelizing their own beliefs. That's YOU, dude. So I plan to ignore you from here on out. Get it? If you want it in stronger language, language even *you* might be able to understand, Fuck off and die. And yes,
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "nablus108" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ingegerd" > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" > > wrote: > > > > > > Okay, it is time for me to own up. I have sensed Guru Dev behind > > my > > > research work since way way back, whether it be wandering in the > > > jungle chatting with swamis or trawling the internet or puzzling > > over > > > the meaning of a rarely used Sanskrit word. > > > I guess I am an unlikely conduit for his teachings, but as far as > > I > > > am concerned, I work on his behalf. > > Care for some details on this ? Why do you, some stupid, greedy > little fellow who is infamous for writing a redicelous "biography" of > Maharishi, now sensing "Guru Dev behind my research..." ? > > Lot's was right in his insesitive wrath in your direction: You are > the scambug of this earth; Paul Mason, what you are doing is simple > and gross. > > Why Maharishi cut your scorpion-country off is getting more and more > obvious with people like you on board. > > Obviously, you will reap what you sow. As we all shall. But you, my > friend; be prepared for some extras. > Okay. I'm now fully convinced that this Nablus fellow is a troll. He's not even a meditator but someone who is out to discredit the TMO and MMY by acting like a complete horse's ass. He sounds more like a fundamentalist Christian with all this fire and brimstone. Perhaps he is Peter from a.m.t. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
What bar are you propping up today? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "nablus108" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ingegerd" > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" > > wrote: > > > > > > Okay, it is time for me to own up. I have sensed Guru Dev behind > > my > > > research work since way way back, whether it be wandering in the > > > jungle chatting with swamis or trawling the internet or puzzling > > over > > > the meaning of a rarely used Sanskrit word. > > > I guess I am an unlikely conduit for his teachings, but as far as > > I > > > am concerned, I work on his behalf. > > Care for some details on this ? Why do you, some stupid, greedy > little fellow who is infamous for writing a redicelous "biography" of > Maharishi, now sensing "Guru Dev behind my research..." ? > > Lot's was right in his insesitive wrath in your direction: You are > the scambug of this earth; Paul Mason, what you are doing is simple > and gross. > > Why Maharishi cut your scorpion-country off is getting more and more > obvious with people like you on board. > > Obviously, you will reap what you sow. As we all shall. But you, my > friend; be prepared for some extras. > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
Does anyone have a copy of the photograph that t3rinity is referring to? It is to the left of MMY on page 53 of 'Thirty Years Around the World'. It looks like the photo that the puja portrait was painted from. An in-transit picture is at:- http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/sources/text/GuidingLight.htm --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Vision of Guru Dev by MMY? Never heard it before today. > Never heard of him 'painting a picture' before, unless you mean > colouring a photograph which you mentioned over on the googlegroup > many many months back, as I recall. > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > He took GD's advice for himself... > > > > > > > > > > Uh, excuse me...it seems to me that Maharishi did > > > > > the *opposite* of taking Guru Dev's advice. According > > > > > to witnesses, that advice, given directly to Maharishi > > > > > in public while Guru Dev was alive, was that he should > > > > > *not* teach. Yet within a few years of Guru Dev's death, > > > > > there he was teaching. That doesn't strike me as > > > > > following one's teacher's advice. > > > > > > > > I was talking about the advice of the vision. > > > > > > No, you are talking about the advice of the *supposed* > > > vision. There has never been, nor will there ever be, > > > any evidence that such a vision ever happened. > > > > > > I'm just making this point because you seem to believe > > > that because you believe in this "vision" it's a done > > > deal, and that it really happened. I make no such > > > assumption. I spent 14 years in the TM movement with- > > > out hearing *any* reference to such a vision before > > > you wrote about it a couple of posts ago. > > > > Thats because you are basically dump. > > > > > > He took this advice for himself and not for others. > > > > > > If it happened. Again, I've never heard such a story > > > in all my years. If I had, unlike you I probably > > > wouldn't have believed it. > > > > > > Nitpick all you want about the so-called "differences" > > > you perceive between one person claiming to have had > > > a vision and another. Bottom line is that anyone can > > > claim anything they bloody well want to about "visions," > > > and there is nothing that *anyone* can *ever* do to > > > prove them either true or false. It's ALL a matter of > > > belief. > > > > > > In this particular case, you seem to have heard and > > > chosen to believe a rumor THAT IS NOT EVEN MOVEMENT > > > DOGMA. I never heard such a story, and I'd be willing > > > to believe that many others here haven't, either. > > > > See, I have friends in India, who visisted this couple MMY was > staying > > with, when he had the vision. In fact, he painted a picture of GD > > after having the vision. MMY is shown in the history book with this > > particular picture, its on page 53. That you didn't hear it is not > my > > fault. What I don't understand: Is there any injunction here on the > > list, to only repeat movement dogma (PS caps are considered shouting > > and impolite) > > > > > You did hear such a story, from somewhere, and because > > > you're just a bowl of mush, bhakti-speaking, you chose > > > to believe it. As I said, I probably wouldn't have. > > > > I heard the story from a friend who visited this couple. Seems to > > really upset you. > > > > > > > > > When he [MMY] started in Kerala, he was surrounded by > > > > orthodox Brahmins, and it seems he easily convinced them. > > > > > > He convinced you, and all you did was hear a rumor > > > that isn't even an established part of the TM teachings. :-) > > > > So what? > > > > > > > > > > If there is anything like 'good' or 'bad' at all. My point is: > its > > > > always a personal thing. Why bother about the personal decision > of > > > > others, and try to convince them they were wrong, Barry? > > > > > > We've gone down this road before. I am NOT trying to > > > convince you of anything. That's just how you *interpret* > > > hearing ideas other than your own, as if the person who > > > has those other ideas is trying to convince you of them. > > > They're not. You're just being a paranoid cultist, > > > that's all. :-) > > > > So, Barry, you are really a nice guy. Isn't this forum open to all > for > > public discussion? Yet you go out of your frame constantly. Saying: > > 'Fuck off and die' claiming this to be just a nice american idiom. > And > > then giving me additional advice, that you just wanted me to > > contemplete inevitable death. OTOH you are so very concerned about > the > > threats of fundamentalists, whose threats should be taken seriously > > and who are just 'scary'. Want a little advice from me: This
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ingegerd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" > wrote: > > > > Okay, it is time for me to own up. I have sensed Guru Dev behind > my > > research work since way way back, whether it be wandering in the > > jungle chatting with swamis or trawling the internet or puzzling > over > > the meaning of a rarely used Sanskrit word. > > I guess I am an unlikely conduit for his teachings, but as far as > I > > am concerned, I work on his behalf. Care for some details on this ? Why do you, some stupid, greedy little fellow who is infamous for writing a redicelous "biography" of Maharishi, now sensing "Guru Dev behind my research..." ? Lot's was right in his insesitive wrath in your direction: You are the scambug of this earth; Paul Mason, what you are doing is simple and gross. Why Maharishi cut your scorpion-country off is getting more and more obvious with people like you on board. Obviously, you will reap what you sow. As we all shall. But you, my friend; be prepared for some extras. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
Vision of Guru Dev by MMY? Never heard it before today. Never heard of him 'painting a picture' before, unless you mean colouring a photograph which you mentioned over on the googlegroup many many months back, as I recall. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > > > > > > He took GD's advice for himself... > > > > > > > > Uh, excuse me...it seems to me that Maharishi did > > > > the *opposite* of taking Guru Dev's advice. According > > > > to witnesses, that advice, given directly to Maharishi > > > > in public while Guru Dev was alive, was that he should > > > > *not* teach. Yet within a few years of Guru Dev's death, > > > > there he was teaching. That doesn't strike me as > > > > following one's teacher's advice. > > > > > > I was talking about the advice of the vision. > > > > No, you are talking about the advice of the *supposed* > > vision. There has never been, nor will there ever be, > > any evidence that such a vision ever happened. > > > > I'm just making this point because you seem to believe > > that because you believe in this "vision" it's a done > > deal, and that it really happened. I make no such > > assumption. I spent 14 years in the TM movement with- > > out hearing *any* reference to such a vision before > > you wrote about it a couple of posts ago. > > Thats because you are basically dump. > > > > He took this advice for himself and not for others. > > > > If it happened. Again, I've never heard such a story > > in all my years. If I had, unlike you I probably > > wouldn't have believed it. > > > > Nitpick all you want about the so-called "differences" > > you perceive between one person claiming to have had > > a vision and another. Bottom line is that anyone can > > claim anything they bloody well want to about "visions," > > and there is nothing that *anyone* can *ever* do to > > prove them either true or false. It's ALL a matter of > > belief. > > > > In this particular case, you seem to have heard and > > chosen to believe a rumor THAT IS NOT EVEN MOVEMENT > > DOGMA. I never heard such a story, and I'd be willing > > to believe that many others here haven't, either. > > See, I have friends in India, who visisted this couple MMY was staying > with, when he had the vision. In fact, he painted a picture of GD > after having the vision. MMY is shown in the history book with this > particular picture, its on page 53. That you didn't hear it is not my > fault. What I don't understand: Is there any injunction here on the > list, to only repeat movement dogma (PS caps are considered shouting > and impolite) > > > You did hear such a story, from somewhere, and because > > you're just a bowl of mush, bhakti-speaking, you chose > > to believe it. As I said, I probably wouldn't have. > > I heard the story from a friend who visited this couple. Seems to > really upset you. > > > > > > When he [MMY] started in Kerala, he was surrounded by > > > orthodox Brahmins, and it seems he easily convinced them. > > > > He convinced you, and all you did was hear a rumor > > that isn't even an established part of the TM teachings. :-) > > So what? > > > > > > > If there is anything like 'good' or 'bad' at all. My point is: its > > > always a personal thing. Why bother about the personal decision of > > > others, and try to convince them they were wrong, Barry? > > > > We've gone down this road before. I am NOT trying to > > convince you of anything. That's just how you *interpret* > > hearing ideas other than your own, as if the person who > > has those other ideas is trying to convince you of them. > > They're not. You're just being a paranoid cultist, > > that's all. :-) > > So, Barry, you are really a nice guy. Isn't this forum open to all for > public discussion? Yet you go out of your frame constantly. Saying: > 'Fuck off and die' claiming this to be just a nice american idiom. And > then giving me additional advice, that you just wanted me to > contemplete inevitable death. OTOH you are so very concerned about the > threats of fundamentalists, whose threats should be taken seriously > and who are just 'scary'. Want a little advice from me: This is a real > good opportunity to contemplate inevitable death. > > And because I believe something a friend tells me from an eyewitness, > I am a cultist, and paranoid at that. Barry, go figure. Why is it that > one can talk nicely and politely with other people, but not with you? > And here you go again sending me forth. Hey, use a spam filter. To me > you come across very faint-hearted and intolerant. > > > I leave you to be paranoid all by yourself, and to > > believe any rumors you hear. Go forth and multiply. :-) > > > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > In this particular case, you seem to have heard and > chosen to believe a rumor THAT IS NOT EVEN MOVEMENT > DOGMA. I never heard such a story, and I'd be willing > to believe that many others here haven't, either. I can't remember where I heard it first, but it was some time ago, and I've heard it a number of times since. It's been discussed on alt.m.t, for example. It's certainly movement *mythology* if not movement *dogma*. It isn't exactly the sort of thing you'd want to mention in an intro lecture, after all. > > > When he [MMY] started in Kerala, he was surrounded by > > orthodox Brahmins, and it seems he easily convinced them. > > He convinced you, and all you did was hear a rumor > that isn't even an established part of the TM teachings. :-) Says Barry, wilfully missing Michael's point (i.e., that orthodox Brahmins would be in a pretty good position to decide whether MMY was qualified to teach by orthodox Brahmin standards). > > > If there is anything like 'good' or 'bad' at all. My point is: its > > always a personal thing. Why bother about the personal decision of > > others, and try to convince them they were wrong, Barry? > > We've gone down this road before. I am NOT trying to > convince you of anything. That's just how you *interpret* > hearing ideas other than your own, as if the person who > has those other ideas is trying to convince you of them. > They're not. You're just being a paranoid cultist, > that's all. :-) Your constant mantra that you're not trying to convince anybody of anything, Barry, is a crock. It's an excuse you haul out to get yourself off the hook when somebody mounts a solid challenge to whatever you're trying to convince them of. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > > > > He took GD's advice for himself... > > > > > > Uh, excuse me...it seems to me that Maharishi did > > > the *opposite* of taking Guru Dev's advice. According > > > to witnesses, that advice, given directly to Maharishi > > > in public while Guru Dev was alive, was that he should > > > *not* teach. Yet within a few years of Guru Dev's death, > > > there he was teaching. That doesn't strike me as > > > following one's teacher's advice. > > > > I was talking about the advice of the vision. > > No, you are talking about the advice of the *supposed* > vision. There has never been, nor will there ever be, > any evidence that such a vision ever happened. > > I'm just making this point because you seem to believe > that because you believe in this "vision" it's a done > deal, and that it really happened. I make no such > assumption. I spent 14 years in the TM movement with- > out hearing *any* reference to such a vision before > you wrote about it a couple of posts ago. Thats because you are basically dump. > > He took this advice for himself and not for others. > > If it happened. Again, I've never heard such a story > in all my years. If I had, unlike you I probably > wouldn't have believed it. > > Nitpick all you want about the so-called "differences" > you perceive between one person claiming to have had > a vision and another. Bottom line is that anyone can > claim anything they bloody well want to about "visions," > and there is nothing that *anyone* can *ever* do to > prove them either true or false. It's ALL a matter of > belief. > > In this particular case, you seem to have heard and > chosen to believe a rumor THAT IS NOT EVEN MOVEMENT > DOGMA. I never heard such a story, and I'd be willing > to believe that many others here haven't, either. See, I have friends in India, who visisted this couple MMY was staying with, when he had the vision. In fact, he painted a picture of GD after having the vision. MMY is shown in the history book with this particular picture, its on page 53. That you didn't hear it is not my fault. What I don't understand: Is there any injunction here on the list, to only repeat movement dogma (PS caps are considered shouting and impolite) > You did hear such a story, from somewhere, and because > you're just a bowl of mush, bhakti-speaking, you chose > to believe it. As I said, I probably wouldn't have. I heard the story from a friend who visited this couple. Seems to really upset you. > > > When he [MMY] started in Kerala, he was surrounded by > > orthodox Brahmins, and it seems he easily convinced them. > > He convinced you, and all you did was hear a rumor > that isn't even an established part of the TM teachings. :-) So what? > > > > If there is anything like 'good' or 'bad' at all. My point is: its > > always a personal thing. Why bother about the personal decision of > > others, and try to convince them they were wrong, Barry? > > We've gone down this road before. I am NOT trying to > convince you of anything. That's just how you *interpret* > hearing ideas other than your own, as if the person who > has those other ideas is trying to convince you of them. > They're not. You're just being a paranoid cultist, > that's all. :-) So, Barry, you are really a nice guy. Isn't this forum open to all for public discussion? Yet you go out of your frame constantly. Saying: 'Fuck off and die' claiming this to be just a nice american idiom. And then giving me additional advice, that you just wanted me to contemplete inevitable death. OTOH you are so very concerned about the threats of fundamentalists, whose threats should be taken seriously and who are just 'scary'. Want a little advice from me: This is a real good opportunity to contemplate inevitable death. And because I believe something a friend tells me from an eyewitness, I am a cultist, and paranoid at that. Barry, go figure. Why is it that one can talk nicely and politely with other people, but not with you? And here you go again sending me forth. Hey, use a spam filter. To me you come across very faint-hearted and intolerant. > I leave you to be paranoid all by yourself, and to > believe any rumors you hear. Go forth and multiply. :-) > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" > > wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak" > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB > > > wrote: > > > > >> Unfortunately, Barry can't deal with teachers who > > > > > deal in contradictions and have different answers > > > > > to life's questions, depending on the state of > > > > > attention or POV that is in operation at the time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cunt. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm a cunt? > > > > > > What does that make Barry? > > > > A brachyphallic gugusse. > > A not-very-bright young man who trysts with priests?? something like that...not that I feel that way about Barry but thought it a nice counterpoint to "cunt". Also, I just read it in "Depraved and insulting English" and wanted to try it out. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > > He took GD's advice for himself... > > > > Uh, excuse me...it seems to me that Maharishi did > > the *opposite* of taking Guru Dev's advice. According > > to witnesses, that advice, given directly to Maharishi > > in public while Guru Dev was alive, was that he should > > *not* teach. Yet within a few years of Guru Dev's death, > > there he was teaching. That doesn't strike me as > > following one's teacher's advice. > > I was talking about the advice of the vision. No, you are talking about the advice of the *supposed* vision. There has never been, nor will there ever be, any evidence that such a vision ever happened. I'm just making this point because you seem to believe that because you believe in this "vision" it's a done deal, and that it really happened. I make no such assumption. I spent 14 years in the TM movement with- out hearing *any* reference to such a vision before you wrote about it a couple of posts ago. > He took this advice for himself and not for others. If it happened. Again, I've never heard such a story in all my years. If I had, unlike you I probably wouldn't have believed it. Nitpick all you want about the so-called "differences" you perceive between one person claiming to have had a vision and another. Bottom line is that anyone can claim anything they bloody well want to about "visions," and there is nothing that *anyone* can *ever* do to prove them either true or false. It's ALL a matter of belief. In this particular case, you seem to have heard and chosen to believe a rumor THAT IS NOT EVEN MOVEMENT DOGMA. I never heard such a story, and I'd be willing to believe that many others here haven't, either. You did hear such a story, from somewhere, and because you're just a bowl of mush, bhakti-speaking, you chose to believe it. As I said, I probably wouldn't have. > When he [MMY] started in Kerala, he was surrounded by > orthodox Brahmins, and it seems he easily convinced them. He convinced you, and all you did was hear a rumor that isn't even an established part of the TM teachings. :-) > If there is anything like 'good' or 'bad' at all. My point is: its > always a personal thing. Why bother about the personal decision of > others, and try to convince them they were wrong, Barry? We've gone down this road before. I am NOT trying to convince you of anything. That's just how you *interpret* hearing ideas other than your own, as if the person who has those other ideas is trying to convince you of them. They're not. You're just being a paranoid cultist, that's all. :-) I leave you to be paranoid all by yourself, and to believe any rumors you hear. Go forth and multiply. :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak" > > wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" > wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB > > wrote: > > > >> Unfortunately, Barry can't deal with teachers who > > > > deal in contradictions and have different answers > > > > to life's questions, depending on the state of > > > > attention or POV that is in operation at the time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cunt. > > > > > > > > I'm a cunt? > > > > What does that make Barry? > > A brachyphallic gugusse. A not-very-bright young man who trysts with priests?? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity wrote: > > > > In the case of your ex-Guru Rama, people channeling him > > were doing so on an established authority within the > > community, which they were using to give messages. > > Michael, you should stick to what you actually > know something about. When you try to make things > up, they usually *sound* made up. :-) And what if you try to read properly? > There IS no "established authority" within the > Rama "community." Of course he himself was the authority. So, speaking on his behalf, like most channelers do, they use the authority of the person they channel. I guess there was not mach interest in these channelings outside the Rama community, but the interest within that community was due to the authority their master enjoyed. In comparison to that: 1)MMY did not channel GD 2)GD was unknown in the west were MMY started to teach. > He failed to leave one. He just > croaked himself and left nothing behind but a > foundation to give away what was left of his > money and a buncha students who didn't know > what to do next. > > So anybody who felt like "carrying on his work" did > so on their own, without any kind of "authority" or > organization backing them whatsoever. Some did so > cleanly in my opinion, limiting themselves to teaching > the only thing they were qualified to teach, basic > meditation, and doing so for free. > > A few others set themselves up as gurus, and some > of them claimed "direct communication" from Rama to > do so. So they used Ramas authority within the community. They claimed it. > Since there are suckers everywhere, a few of > those suckers fell for this routine for short periods > of time. Now, a few years later, none of these poseurs > have any followers left any more. It became evident > very quickly that they couldn't walk their talk. > > > Maharishi OTOH didn't give messages from > > Guru Dev to people. That's a big difference. > > True. > > > He took GD's advice for himself... > > Uh, excuse me...it seems to me that Maharishi did > the *opposite* of taking Guru Dev's advice. According > to witnesses, that advice, given directly to Maharishi > in public while Guru Dev was alive, was that he should > *not* teach. Yet within a few years of Guru Dev's death, > there he was teaching. That doesn't strike me as > following one's teacher's advice. I was talking about the advice of the vision. He took this advice for himself and not for others. Its a big difference, if I get some message, and take this vision relating to myself, or start channeling messages to others what they should do. Big difference. In one case, I trust in my own experience and act upon it. In the other case I impose a foreign authorithy to others. > > ...and simply traces himself to the tradition of his > > master whom he served for more than 13 years. > > And within whose tradition he would never have been > allowed to teach. Never. Sure, so far we understood. Nevertheless, he was an integral part in it, because we have GD word, that non Brahmins could be disciples. And as I have pointed out before, the reason was all external, ultra-orthodox convention. There were many Brahmins who believe that these injunctions aren't truely 'vedic'. (and as far as I can tell, you wouldn't really care). Point is, they weren't personal. > > Can you see the difference at all? > > Sure. Totally different situation in some ways, but > similar in other ways. Maharishi rode to short-lived > fame in India on the coattails of a famous teacher and > then later to short-lived fame in the West by riding > on the coattails of some famous musicians. The Rama > poseurs rode to even shorter-lived fame on the coattails > of the teacher they worked with for a few years (in > some cases, longer than MMY spent with GD). Your interpretation. To me it seems he effected the life of many in a positive way. He indeed made meditation a household word in the west. > I'm really not making a case for Maharishi being as > much of a charlatan as some of these poseurs were. > MMY accomplished a few good things in his time, and as > far as I can tell, the poseurs didn't. But Maharishi > *did* get famous initially by riding on his teacher's > coattails, and has consistently ever since tried to > give the impression that he had Guru Dev's blessing > to go into the teaching biz. As far as I can tell, > this claim is not true. When he started in Kerala, he was surrounded by orthodox Brahmins, and it seems he easily convinced them. He also easily convinced a few Gurubhais, who incidently were also Brahmnins. That is, according to GD, they were all eligable to teach. > But all this is moot. Ya meet one of the people > making these kinds of claims, whether they are for > real or simply spiritual poseurs, and ya makes yer > decision whether to believe them or not. And
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak" > > wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" > wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB > wrote: > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, Barry can't deal with teachers who > > > > deal in contradictions and have different answers > > > > to life's questions, depending on the state of > > > > attention or POV that is in operation at the time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cunt. > > > > Now, now. :-) > > > > Alice is just acting and thinking the way she's > > been taught to act and think by her enlightened > > masters. Doncha know that intellectual consistency > > is only a good thing when you can accuse someone > > of not having it. :-) > > Anyone who has ever thought Barry had something of > significance to say should contemplate the above > exchange. Really? You honestly desire that I take time out from my day to contemplate yet another silly episode from this 10-year-plus dispute you've been having with Barry? I can forgive you for wasting your own time; I can't forgive you for wanting to waste my time. > The quote at the top is of one of Barry's > attacks on me, with only the name changed. The > context of my quote was Barry's accusation that MMY > has contradicted himself about the survival of the > individual consciousness after death and the > prediction that TBs will overlook the contradiction > if they experience MMY after MMY dies. > > (Barry, I'm sure, will be the first to acknowledge > that he has nothing of significance to say. He's > been remarkably consistent about that whenever it's > been pointed out to him that what he says makes no > sense. So perhaps we should all take that to > heart when reading Barry's posts here.) > > > > > > "One can't believe impossible things." > > "I daresay you haven't had much practice," said > > the queen. "When I was your age I always did it > > for half-an-hour a day. Why, sometimes I've > > believed six impossible things before breakfast." > > > > -- Lewis Carroll > > > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak" > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB > wrote: > > >> Unfortunately, Barry can't deal with teachers who > > > deal in contradictions and have different answers > > > to life's questions, depending on the state of > > > attention or POV that is in operation at the time. > > > > > > > > > > > cunt. > > > > I'm a cunt? > > What does that make Barry? A brachyphallic gugusse. > > (HINT: The above is a quote from one of Barry's > attacks on me. Only the name has been changed.) > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > My personal feeling is that the more one feels > that they have to justify their decision to others, > the greater chance there is that it was a bad one. But heaven help you if you wonder aloud in Barry's hearing whether this is why some people who decided to quit TM subsequently hang out on TM-related groups for over a decade relentlessly putting down MMY and the TMO and TMers. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > In the case of your ex-Guru Rama, people channeling him > were doing so on an established authority within the > community, which they were using to give messages. Michael, you should stick to what you actually know something about. When you try to make things up, they usually *sound* made up. :-) There IS no "established authority" within the Rama "community." He failed to leave one. He just croaked himself and left nothing behind but a foundation to give away what was left of his money and a buncha students who didn't know what to do next. So anybody who felt like "carrying on his work" did so on their own, without any kind of "authority" or organization backing them whatsoever. Some did so cleanly in my opinion, limiting themselves to teaching the only thing they were qualified to teach, basic meditation, and doing so for free. A few others set themselves up as gurus, and some of them claimed "direct communication" from Rama to do so. Since there are suckers everywhere, a few of those suckers fell for this routine for short periods of time. Now, a few years later, none of these poseurs have any followers left any more. It became evident very quickly that they couldn't walk their talk. > Maharishi OTOH didn't give messages from > Guru Dev to people. That's a big difference. True. > He took GD's advice for himself... Uh, excuse me...it seems to me that Maharishi did the *opposite* of taking Guru Dev's advice. According to witnesses, that advice, given directly to Maharishi in public while Guru Dev was alive, was that he should *not* teach. Yet within a few years of Guru Dev's death, there he was teaching. That doesn't strike me as following one's teacher's advice. > ...and simply traces himself to the tradition of his > master whom he served for more than 13 years. And within whose tradition he would never have been allowed to teach. Never. > Can you see the difference at all? Sure. Totally different situation in some ways, but similar in other ways. Maharishi rode to short-lived fame in India on the coattails of a famous teacher and then later to short-lived fame in the West by riding on the coattails of some famous musicians. The Rama poseurs rode to even shorter-lived fame on the coattails of the teacher they worked with for a few years (in some cases, longer than MMY spent with GD). I'm really not making a case for Maharishi being as much of a charlatan as some of these poseurs were. MMY accomplished a few good things in his time, and as far as I can tell, the poseurs didn't. But Maharishi *did* get famous initially by riding on his teacher's coattails, and has consistently ever since tried to give the impression that he had Guru Dev's blessing to go into the teaching biz. As far as I can tell, this claim is not true. But all this is moot. Ya meet one of the people making these kinds of claims, whether they are for real or simply spiritual poseurs, and ya makes yer decision whether to believe them or not. And then ya lives with it. No one on earth will ever be able to prove whether ya made a good decision or a bad one. My personal feeling is that the more one feels that they have to justify their decision to others, the greater chance there is that it was a bad one. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Okay, it is time for me to own up. I have sensed Guru Dev behind my > research work since way way back, whether it be wandering in the > jungle chatting with swamis or trawling the internet or puzzling over > the meaning of a rarely used Sanskrit word. > I guess I am an unlikely conduit for his teachings, but as far as I > am concerned, I work on his behalf. Are you claiming that Guru Dev wants you to denigrate Maharishi, Paul? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > In almost every case, the claims themselves cannot > possibly be either verified or disproven. So my > personal "litmus test" when dealing with such claims > (*especially* claims of communicating with the dead > teacher) is to watch the *overall* behavior of the > person who is making the claim. Fair enough, thats what everybody should do. You can also see if what he teaches has any positive effect on you. You can also observe, if there is any 'transmission', e.g. when you do puja at initiation. It will never be settled, and there will always be different opinions about it, but in as far as I am concerned, this is the nature of all religious experience. Some may connect to this particular stream of experience, and some won't. > Do they treat the experience they had matter-of-factly, > as if it was no more important than any other experience > they've had in their lives, or do they make it into A > Really Big Thing, one that makes them unique and special? But, matter-of-factly, you can never make such a rule. Some experience simply do have a bigger effect on your life than others. You should know this. So why deny this and pretend it wasn't so? > But I have seen other folks, in the Rama trip and > others, who *definitely* used their "visions of the > now-dead teacher" to set themselves up as "the new > teacher," and to develop a fanatical following who > hovered around them waiting for the next "message > from the teacher." And often to pay them a great > deal of money for "delivering" these "messages." I know what you mean. This even happens with living teachers, who don't talk a lot, or are fairly inaccessable. There are people who channel e.g. Sai Baba. But these people have never been really close to the teacher, they didn't live with him the everyday life. > It is this last phenomenon I expect to happen a LOT > in the TM movement when Maharishi finally dies. I > expect there to be at least half a dozen folks who > start hearing "messages from Maharishi" and that > mini-cults will develop around each of them. I certainly believe things like this will happen, if they are not already happening now. For me, I am personally not concerned, I am not involved in TM, so why would I care? I know a lot of Gurus, who claim to have been initiated by Babaji. I can only see them and see how I feel in their vicinity. In the case of TM, if lets say, Nandikishore would come forth and say he is in inner contact with Maharishi, I'm more tempted to believe him, than say xyz-'nobody' - even though in both cases I cannot know. As I see it now, the TM as a practise, stands very much on its own feet, it doesn't need the authority of Guru Dev, who is known to the people in the west only through Maharishi. In the case of your ex-Guru Rama, people channeling him were doing so on an established authority within the community, which they were using to give messages. Maharishi OTOH didn't give messages from Guru Dev to people. That's a big difference. He took GD's advice for himself, and simply traces himself to the tradition of his master whom he served for more than 13 years. Can you see the difference at all? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
I anticipated the need to present Guru Dev's views on caste and soforth and I am right now working up a translation, should be ready in about half hour or so. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" > wrote: > > > > And that is a major role of the Guru to settle such disputes over the > > meaning of the Shastras and clarify about apparent contradictions. > > Which is why they are supposed to be so-o-o-o learned, AND be in the > > light entirely. > > Incidentally I am not presenting my own view on this, but that which > > I have learned from the words of Guru Dev. > > Then who is a Brahmana in Guru Devs words? > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "geezerfreak" > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > > > Unfortunately, Barry can't deal with teachers who > > > deal in contradictions and have different answers > > > to life's questions, depending on the state of > > > attention or POV that is in operation at the time. > > > > > > > > > > cunt. > > Now, now. :-) > > Alice is just acting and thinking the way she's > been taught to act and think by her enlightened > masters. Doncha know that intellectual consistency > is only a good thing when you can accuse someone > of not having it. :-) Anyone who has ever thought Barry had something of significance to say should contemplate the above exchange. The quote at the top is of one of Barry's attacks on me, with only the name changed. The context of my quote was Barry's accusation that MMY has contradicted himself about the survival of the individual consciousness after death and the prediction that TBs will overlook the contradiction if they experience MMY after MMY dies. (Barry, I'm sure, will be the first to acknowledge that he has nothing of significance to say. He's been remarkably consistent about that whenever it's been pointed out to him that what he says makes no sense. So perhaps we should all take that to heart when reading Barry's posts here.) > "One can't believe impossible things." > "I daresay you haven't had much practice," said > the queen. "When I was your age I always did it > for half-an-hour a day. Why, sometimes I've > believed six impossible things before breakfast." > > -- Lewis Carroll > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > And that is a major role of the Guru to settle such disputes over the > meaning of the Shastras and clarify about apparent contradictions. > Which is why they are supposed to be so-o-o-o learned, AND be in the > light entirely. > Incidentally I am not presenting my own view on this, but that which > I have learned from the words of Guru Dev. Then who is a Brahmana in Guru Devs words? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The death of Guru Dev
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Mason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Okay, it is time for me to own up. I have sensed Guru Dev behind my > research work since way way back, whether it be wandering in the > jungle chatting with swamis or trawling the internet or puzzling over > the meaning of a rarely used Sanskrit word. > I guess I am an unlikely conduit for his teachings, but as far as I > am concerned, I work on his behalf. I'm sure it is. You are doing good work. You are on a mission from God. ;-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
