[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > --- jim_flanegin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff > > > > wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, > > "jim_flanegin" > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > w, I smell chicken sh*t... > > > > > > Do you identify with it? > > > > > I call it checken sh*t because you change aliases > > regularly- anonymous > > ones no less, possibly so your ongoing diatribes > > can't be seen as the > > endless mostly negative and boring rants that they > > are. > > > > Also, I've never seen you in the year or so I've > > been a part of this > > group contribute something original that wasn't a > > commentary on what > > someone else wrote first. Not willing to take a > > stand unless someone > > says something first, which you then 'bravely' > > respond to. > > > > Sorry dude, that's just chicken sh*t... > > More goatish in my olfactory sense ;-) > Yep, Actually *Kali's* lap dog to be precise- *LOL* Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > For some lifestreams the saying Brahman is the charioteer goes down as > Brahman is the chauffer of a Lincoln Navigator Super stretch limo that > includes computer controlled dish antenna TV on a 30 inch lcd screen > with wet bar, refrigator, microwave and lovely attendants to make all > life smooth and easy. For other lifestreams the limo and the chariot > get left in the garage and Brahman shows up with the bridle, bit, > saddle, spurs and whips and you can guess who is the steed. In either > case life gets lived but it sure appears different to each lifestream > and the many variations to the theme. Doer or non doer it is kind of > in the percieving of how it is being lived but it is lived. That is > all one needs to now, life goes on and don't try to stop it or get in > the way. Tom T > Thought it was Krisha who was the charioteer. Seems to methat Brahman is the charioteer, chariot, horses, reigns and the bloody battle also. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis wrote: > > For other lifestreams the limo and the chariot > get left in the garage and Brahman shows up with the bridle, bit, > saddle, spurs and whips and you can guess who is the steed. Let's leave the kink at home, Tom, or we'll be back on the "adults only" listings at Yahoo!. Thanks. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
For some lifestreams the saying Brahman is the charioteer goes down as Brahman is the chauffer of a Lincoln Navigator Super stretch limo that includes computer controlled dish antenna TV on a 30 inch lcd screen with wet bar, refrigator, microwave and lovely attendants to make all life smooth and easy. For other lifestreams the limo and the chariot get left in the garage and Brahman shows up with the bridle, bit, saddle, spurs and whips and you can guess who is the steed. In either case life gets lived but it sure appears different to each lifestream and the many variations to the theme. Doer or non doer it is kind of in the percieving of how it is being lived but it is lived. That is all one needs to now, life goes on and don't try to stop it or get in the way. Tom T Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Barry, > you are far to heated, and I don't want to bore the audience > here with a rebutal of your single arguments. Or with dealing with them. Whatever. :-) > Take my word for it: I don't mean it personal, and I surely > don't want to change you (with whom should I discuss in the > future? ;-)). A good point. If everyone believed the same things, the universe would be incredibly boring. > Also when I say, that I don't understand, how someone > witnessing, could have regrets for the past, I don't > mean that in a personal way. I just mean it like this. > And I still do. Thanks for the clarification. I think part of your issue is assuming that I'm talking about "regrets." I'm not; I have none. There is nothing in my life I would change if given the opportunity. But that is a *separate* subject than my ongoing fascination with spiritual teachings and which ones of them seem to be effective and which seem to be less effective, or even harmful, in the long run. I reserve the right to be interested in that subject. The things I talk about here with regard to TM and Maharishi are in that vein; they are *not* about "regrets." > But that doesn't mean I want to prove that your > experiences are higher or lower etc, thats childish. I agree. > We are not in a competition, neither of > us. And the view,that one could fool oneself believing > to be enlightened, is of course also general.There is > indeed solid scientific research about choices and > free-will, and how the I sensation comes about, > clearly denying the simplistic notion of 'I am > the doer of this deed', you are just not interested > in it, which is okay. I don't consider it either scientific or definitive, that's all. You do, because it supports what you'd like to believe. I've looked into the study you keep quoting, and I believe that was its genesis; IMO the researchers went into it *looking for* ways to "prove" their existing belief that free will did not exist. Of course, they found them. This, of course, is Just My Opinion. You are free to believe that the study is valid. If you have free will, that is; otherwise you're stuck with what the universe wants you to believe. :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
Barry, you are far to heated, and I don't want to bore the audience here with a rebutal of your single arguments. Take my word for it: I don't mean it personal, and I surely don't want to change you (with whom should I discuss in the future? ;-)). Also when I say, that I don't understand, how someone witnessing, could have regrets for the past, I don't mean that in a personal way. I just mean it like this. And I still do. But that doesn't mean I want to prove that your experiences are higher or lower etc, thats childish. We are not in a competition, neither of us. And the view,that one could fool oneself believing to be enlightened, is of course also general.There is indeed solid scientific research about choices and free-will, and how the I sensation comes about, clearly denying the simplistic notion of 'I am the doer of this deed', you are just not interested in it, which is okay. So, no bad, I just participate in this discussion like anyone, there were many more responding to this very post, none of them was accused by you for trying to change your mind except me. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > You seem to be taking this very personally, while I simply > > try to elucitate the principles. For me this is an answer > > to the thoughts and ideas you bring up, so I see it in an > > impersonal way. > > Excuse me? Go back and look at the first few posts of > yours in this thread. You *started* by lecturing me > about complaining about past spiritual teachers and > teachings. The *clear* implication from you was that > this was not an appropriate thing to do, based on your > belief that none of the things I might be complaining > about were really "done" by anyone anyway; they were > all done by the universe. > > Go back and look; I think you'll find that you *started* > by being personal, and then later got into discussions > of a more theoretical nature, once I brought them up. > > > > > One might ask, given your last sentence, why you > > > keep suggesting that your point of view is "better" > > > or "higher" and that mine is lesser? :-) > > > > There is nothing about 'better' or 'higher' in my > > suggestion. I am simply discussing, I don't know > > what you do. > > Ahem. Might I quote you from a few posts back in > this very thread (speakers are you, then me, then you): > > > > > IOW if you look at it from the ego POV, there are lots of > > > > mistakes and limitations, if you look from the POV of the > > > > Self there aren't, everything is perfect. It's just a > > > > matter from which level you look at things (Knowledge is > > > > diffferent in different states of consciousness) But its > > > > of course stupid to look at things from the ego-POV and > > > > pretend its the Self-POV. > > > > > > It is *your* contention that the ego-POV is lesser > > > than the Self-POV. > > > > Sure thats what I said. I said that it is a lesser POV than the > > highest. Yet, at this moment it is more appropriate. > > > And I try to do it in a > > logical fashion, while you put up a smokescreen of different > > viewpoints, between which one can choose... > > Exactly. It's not a smokescreen; that's how I perceive > the subject we are speaking about. It's all *about* > different points of view, among which one can make > a choice as to which one to prefer. > > > ...the non-choosing just being > > one of them - which is a contradiction in itself. > > But in the Buddhist paradigm a useful contradiction, > a thorn to remove a thorn, so to speak. :-) > > > Your arguments are > > simply not consistent, that's all. > > Neither is the universe. If you expect it to be, > you've got a lot to learn. :-) > > > > One might also ask, as I have several times (without, > > > I think, a response from you) why -- if you truly > > > believe that the universe runs everything and that > > > no one in it is really "doing" anything -- you keep > > > suggesting that I change my behavior and/or my > > > beliefs? > > > > Excuse me, I am not suggesting that you change your beliefs. > > Again, go back and reread the thread. You have suggested > several times that my beliefs are erroneous. At several > points you have suggested that my experiences were made > up. I don't think I've done that with you. I have merely > presented a *different* way of seeing and interpreting > the experience of "not the doer." I'm not invalidating > that experience; I've had it myself. I'm just saying > that there are other ways of *approaching* the experience > than assuming it's a "higher" or "better" way of seeing > things than "am the doer." > > > I am simply discussing - if that's not what you want, > > then what you are doing here? > > I'm trying to clue you in to the parts of your > "discussion" in which you seem get your *own* > buttons pushed, an
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > You seem to be taking this very personally, while I simply > try to elucitate the principles. For me this is an answer > to the thoughts and ideas you bring up, so I see it in an > impersonal way. Excuse me? Go back and look at the first few posts of yours in this thread. You *started* by lecturing me about complaining about past spiritual teachers and teachings. The *clear* implication from you was that this was not an appropriate thing to do, based on your belief that none of the things I might be complaining about were really "done" by anyone anyway; they were all done by the universe. Go back and look; I think you'll find that you *started* by being personal, and then later got into discussions of a more theoretical nature, once I brought them up. > > One might ask, given your last sentence, why you > > keep suggesting that your point of view is "better" > > or "higher" and that mine is lesser? :-) > > There is nothing about 'better' or 'higher' in my > suggestion. I am simply discussing, I don't know > what you do. Ahem. Might I quote you from a few posts back in this very thread (speakers are you, then me, then you): > > > IOW if you look at it from the ego POV, there are lots of > > > mistakes and limitations, if you look from the POV of the > > > Self there aren't, everything is perfect. It's just a > > > matter from which level you look at things (Knowledge is > > > diffferent in different states of consciousness) But its > > > of course stupid to look at things from the ego-POV and > > > pretend its the Self-POV. > > > > It is *your* contention that the ego-POV is lesser > > than the Self-POV. > > Sure thats what I said. I said that it is a lesser POV than the > highest. Yet, at this moment it is more appropriate. > And I try to do it in a > logical fashion, while you put up a smokescreen of different > viewpoints, between which one can choose... Exactly. It's not a smokescreen; that's how I perceive the subject we are speaking about. It's all *about* different points of view, among which one can make a choice as to which one to prefer. > ...the non-choosing just being > one of them - which is a contradiction in itself. But in the Buddhist paradigm a useful contradiction, a thorn to remove a thorn, so to speak. :-) > Your arguments are > simply not consistent, that's all. Neither is the universe. If you expect it to be, you've got a lot to learn. :-) > > One might also ask, as I have several times (without, > > I think, a response from you) why -- if you truly > > believe that the universe runs everything and that > > no one in it is really "doing" anything -- you keep > > suggesting that I change my behavior and/or my > > beliefs? > > Excuse me, I am not suggesting that you change your beliefs. Again, go back and reread the thread. You have suggested several times that my beliefs are erroneous. At several points you have suggested that my experiences were made up. I don't think I've done that with you. I have merely presented a *different* way of seeing and interpreting the experience of "not the doer." I'm not invalidating that experience; I've had it myself. I'm just saying that there are other ways of *approaching* the experience than assuming it's a "higher" or "better" way of seeing things than "am the doer." > I am simply discussing - if that's not what you want, > then what you are doing here? I'm trying to clue you in to the parts of your "discussion" in which you seem get your *own* buttons pushed, and start making declarations about the relative "highness" and "lowness" of things. You've done it a lot in this thread. > > If you honestly believe that the universe > > is doing it all, shouldn't you be taking these > > complaints directly to the universe instead of > > the "not doer?" :-) > > You somehow seem to be under the illussion that you > are seperate from the universe. It's like this joke: > Someone keeps his backbag on his shoulders in the plane. > The stewardess asks him to take it down and put it in > the locker. He says, no, I carry it myself, I didn't > pay for the overweight. Nice non-sequitur, but did you notice that you once again didn't deal with the issue. You declared my belief (which you incorrectly interpreted to be that I am separate from the universe) an 'illusion.' But you failed to deal with the fact that -- if you really believe what you claim to believe -- you are lecturing the universe itself. If you honestly believe that I am not the doer of my own actions, and thinker of my own thoughts, why are you criticizing them as illusory? :-) > It just shows that you didn't understand the argument. > Just like you, I do what I think I want to do. But > unlike you, I don't believe that what I think is in > my hands. I think that's perfectly *fine*, as a belief system. But i
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > > Yup. It's also *still identification*. In the > > > Buddhist paradigm, the goal is to identify with > > > *no* point of view or state of attention, but > > > to transcend them all and identify with *nothing*. > > > > Not identifying with action means being no actor. > > Not identifying with thought means being no thinker. > > Or it could imply that the person doing this is > a moodmaker. :-) You seem to be taking this very personally, while I simply try to elucitate the principles. For me this is an answer to the thoughts and ideas you bring up, so I see it in an impersonal way. > > Still thoughts and actions continue. Not being identified with a > > viewpoint, doesn't mean either there is no viewpoint, or that there > > would have to be many viewpoints. This kind of analysis is of > course > > itself a viewpoint, but it doesn't say anything about the > > identification with it. It doesn't therefore matter at all if the > mind > > holds only one or many viewpoints, if one is not identified with > the > > menatl activity. For the sake of a discussion, we have to give > > viewpoints, both of us, but it doesn't say anything about the > degree > > of involvement in the mind. > > > > To bring the discussion to the level of one versus many viewpoints > is > > therefore a mistake, because it mistakes the number of viewpoints > one > > holds with the degree of ones identification. You could hold a > number > > of viewpoints, and still be involved with each one of them to some > > degree. Your mind could have worked out a balance between them > all, or > > an aditional viewpoint which comprises the all.(like the grand > theory > > of unfied viewpoints.) > > > > It maybe a parctical exercise in Buddhism to switch between > viewpoints > > in oder to lose identification, but its just an exercise to > understand > > the nature of illusion. If states of consciousness (not attention) > > occure only one at a time, or overlap or are mixed, is of course > also > > a matter of definition of 'states of consciousness'. For me this > > doesn't really pose a problem. Any intellectual theory about > states of > > consciousness can only be a simplification, and the mind cannot > hold > > reality as it is. So what do all these viewpoints matter? > > One might ask, given your last sentence, why you > keep suggesting that your point of view is "better" > or "higher" and that mine is lesser? :-) There is nothing about 'better' or 'higher' in my suggestion. I am simply discussing, I don't know what you do. And I try to do it in a logical fashion, while you put up a smokescreen of different viewpoints, between which one can choose, the non-choosing just being one of them - which is a contradiction in itself. Your arguments are simply not consistent, that's all. > One might also ask, as I have several times (without, > I think, a response from you) why -- if you truly > believe that the universe runs everything and that > no one in it is really "doing" anything -- you keep > suggesting that I change my behavior and/or my > beliefs? Excuse me, I am not suggesting that you change your beliefs. I am simply discussing - if that's not what you want, then what you are doing here? > If you honestly believe that the universe > is doing it all, shouldn't you be taking these > complaints directly to the universe instead of > the "not doer?" :-) You somehow seem to be under the illussion that you are seperate from the universe. It's like this joke: Someone keeps his backbag on his shoulders in the plane. The stewardess asks him to take it down and put it in the locker. He says, no, I carry it myself, I didn't pay for the overweight. It just shows that you didn't understand the argument. Just like you, I do what I think I want to do. But unlike you, I don't believe that what I think is in my hands. I think what I think, because I can't help thinking that way. BTW. if we are free in what we do is also the subject of research. EG brainresearchers have found out, that discission in the brain take place splitseconds before we become aware of them. They also found that the reasons we give for our actions are rationalisations. They are fully aware that the impression we have of the 'I' being the doer is illusiory. To answer your question, you are the universe, and I am not doing it. And you are taking this far too personal: It is not about you and me. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > Yup. It's also *still identification*. In the > > Buddhist paradigm, the goal is to identify with > > *no* point of view or state of attention, but > > to transcend them all and identify with *nothing*. > > Not identifying with action means being no actor. > Not identifying with thought means being no thinker. Or it could imply that the person doing this is a moodmaker. :-) > Still thoughts and actions continue. Not being identified with a > viewpoint, doesn't mean either there is no viewpoint, or that there > would have to be many viewpoints. This kind of analysis is of course > itself a viewpoint, but it doesn't say anything about the > identification with it. It doesn't therefore matter at all if the mind > holds only one or many viewpoints, if one is not identified with the > menatl activity. For the sake of a discussion, we have to give > viewpoints, both of us, but it doesn't say anything about the degree > of involvement in the mind. > > To bring the discussion to the level of one versus many viewpoints is > therefore a mistake, because it mistakes the number of viewpoints one > holds with the degree of ones identification. You could hold a number > of viewpoints, and still be involved with each one of them to some > degree. Your mind could have worked out a balance between them all, or > an aditional viewpoint which comprises the all.(like the grand theory > of unfied viewpoints.) > > It maybe a parctical exercise in Buddhism to switch between viewpoints > in oder to lose identification, but its just an exercise to understand > the nature of illusion. If states of consciousness (not attention) > occure only one at a time, or overlap or are mixed, is of course also > a matter of definition of 'states of consciousness'. For me this > doesn't really pose a problem. Any intellectual theory about states of > consciousness can only be a simplification, and the mind cannot hold > reality as it is. So what do all these viewpoints matter? One might ask, given your last sentence, why you keep suggesting that your point of view is "better" or "higher" and that mine is lesser? :-) One might also ask, as I have several times (without, I think, a response from you) why -- if you truly believe that the universe runs everything and that no one in it is really "doing" anything -- you keep suggesting that I change my behavior and/or my beliefs? If you honestly believe that the universe is doing it all, shouldn't you be taking these complaints directly to the universe instead of the "not doer?" :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Yup. It's also *still identification*. In the > Buddhist paradigm, the goal is to identify with > *no* point of view or state of attention, but > to transcend them all and identify with *nothing*. Not identifying with action means being no actor. Not identifying with thought means being no thinker. Still thoughts and actions continue. Not being identified with a viewpoint, doesn't mean either there is no viewpoint, or that there would have to be many viewpoints. This kind of analysis is of course itself a viewpoint, but it doesn't say anything about the identification with it. It doesn't therefore matter at all if the mind holds only one or many viewpoints, if one is not identified with the menatl activity. For the sake of a discussion, we have to give viewpoints, both of us, but it doesn't say anything about the degree of involvement in the mind. To bring the discussion to the level of one versus many viewpoints is therefore a mistake, because it mistakes the number of viewpoints one holds with the degree of ones identification. You could hold a number of viewpoints, and still be involved with each one of them to some degree. Your mind could have worked out a balance between them all, or an aditional viewpoint which comprises the all.(like the grand theory of unfied viewpoints.) It maybe a parctical exercise in Buddhism to switch between viewpoints in oder to lose identification, but its just an exercise to understand the nature of illusion. If states of consciousness (not attention) occure only one at a time, or overlap or are mixed, is of course also a matter of definition of 'states of consciousness'. For me this doesn't really pose a problem. Any intellectual theory about states of consciousness can only be a simplification, and the mind cannot hold reality as it is. So what do all these viewpoints matter? > This actually becomes a practical exercise when > one starts "multitasking," and experiencing > multiple states of attention at the same time. > It's yet another of the TM oversimplifications > that states of consciousness/states of attention > happen only one a time. One can experience *many* > of them, "running concurrently" as it were. When > that happens, the issue of "Which one do I choose > to identify with" becomes a real issue. The way > Buddhists choose to deal with it is to identify > with none of them, to treat all of them, and > identification itself, as illusory. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"
> wrote:
> [...[
> > > > > > Non sequitur. Above you suggested Trinity had in mind
> > > > > > an "imperfect" vs. a "perfect" set of actions. I'm
> > > > > > pointing out that this is not the case, as I read what
> > > > > > he wrote. He's talking about the experience of who is
> > > > > > "in charge" with regard to the *same* set of actions.
> > > > >
> > > > > Of course, is it really the "same set of actions?" The
river
> and
> > > > > all that...
> > > >
> > > > Talking about a single set of actions, not two similar
> > > > sets.
> > > >
> > >
> > > With or without enlightenment? Seems to me that you can't
> evaluate
> > > the exact similarity in that context, or have I missed
something?
> >
> > Again, it's not "similarity." It's a given single
> > set of actions, considered hypothetically from the
> > perspective of ignorance vs. that of enlightenment.
> > Barry had misinterpreted what Michael had said and
> > assumed he was suggesting the actions would be
> > different ("less perfect") if one were ignorant
> > rather than enlightened, whereas Michael was simply
> > talking about how one given set of actions was
> > experienced.
> >
> > You might have to go back to the previous discussion
> > to get the context here.
> >
>
> Ithink the analogy of the river still holds: is it the same river
> with or without a given whirlpool, or rock?
The analogy of the river is fine, it's just a non
sequitur in this context.
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[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"
wrote:
[...[
> > > > > Non sequitur. Above you suggested Trinity had in mind
> > > > > an "imperfect" vs. a "perfect" set of actions. I'm
> > > > > pointing out that this is not the case, as I read what
> > > > > he wrote. He's talking about the experience of who is
> > > > > "in charge" with regard to the *same* set of actions.
> > > >
> > > > Of course, is it really the "same set of actions?" The river
and
> > > > all that...
> > >
> > > Talking about a single set of actions, not two similar
> > > sets.
> > >
> >
> > With or without enlightenment? Seems to me that you can't
evaluate
> > the exact similarity in that context, or have I missed something?
>
> Again, it's not "similarity." It's a given single
> set of actions, considered hypothetically from the
> perspective of ignorance vs. that of enlightenment.
> Barry had misinterpreted what Michael had said and
> assumed he was suggesting the actions would be
> different ("less perfect") if one were ignorant
> rather than enlightened, whereas Michael was simply
> talking about how one given set of actions was
> experienced.
>
> You might have to go back to the previous discussion
> to get the context here.
>
Ithink the analogy of the river still holds: is it the same river
with or without a given whirlpool, or rock?
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[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB
>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Whatever floats your boat. :-)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > As long as we're dealing with speculation, I
> > > > > > > think you're pretty heavily invested in not
> > > > > > > being responsible for your own decisions and
> > > > > > > actions. Something in you doesn't believe that
> > > > > > > they could ever be perfect if it was "you" that
> > > > > > > made the decisions. So you like to believe that
> > > > > > > the universe goes to the trouble of making them
> > > > > > > all for you.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It isn't about one set of decisions/actions that you
> > > > > > would make if you were "in charge" versus a different
> > > > > > set that would be made if the universe were "in charge."
> > > > > > It's the same set of decisions/actions in both cases.
> > > > > > The only difference is your experience of who/what is
> > > > > > "in charge" of them.
> > > > >
> > > > > Your experience of who/what is in charge of them,
> > > > > plus your *preference* as to which of those to base
> > > > > your life in the relative on. *Especially* if your
> > > > > experience is that *both* "in charge" and "not in
> > > > > charge" are your experience, *simultaneously*. Then
> > > > > it becomes all about *both* of these things being
> > > > > true, from their respective states of attention,
> > > > > and the only issue is which one you choose to
> > > > > focus on.
> > > >
> > > > Non sequitur. Above you suggested Trinity had in mind
> > > > an "imperfect" vs. a "perfect" set of actions. I'm
> > > > pointing out that this is not the case, as I read what
> > > > he wrote. He's talking about the experience of who is
> > > > "in charge" with regard to the *same* set of actions.
> > >
> > > Of course, is it really the "same set of actions?" The river and
> > > all that...
> >
> > Talking about a single set of actions, not two similar
> > sets.
> >
>
> With or without enlightenment? Seems to me that you can't evaluate
> the exact similarity in that context, or have I missed something?
Again, it's not "similarity." It's a given single
set of actions, considered hypothetically from the
perspective of ignorance vs. that of enlightenment.
Barry had misinterpreted what Michael had said and
assumed he was suggesting the actions would be
different ("less perfect") if one were ignorant
rather than enlightened, whereas Michael was simply
talking about how one given set of actions was
experienced.
You might have to go back to the previous discussion
to get the context here.
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[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB > wrote: > > > > > > > > Whatever floats your boat. :-) > > > > > > > > As long as we're dealing with speculation, I > > > > think you're pretty heavily invested in not > > > > being responsible for your own decisions and > > > > actions. Something in you doesn't believe that > > > > they could ever be perfect if it was "you" that > > > > made the decisions. So you like to believe that > > > > the universe goes to the trouble of making them > > > > all for you. > > > > > > It isn't about one set of decisions/actions that you > > > would make if you were "in charge" versus a different > > > set that would be made if the universe were "in charge." > > > It's the same set of decisions/actions in both cases. > > > The only difference is your experience of who/what is > > > "in charge" of them. > > > > Perhaps "an interpretation of the experience" might be more > > accurate... > > Bingo. You're on a roll today. Some are convinced > that their subjective experience of Brahman *is* > Brahman, or that "they" are Brahman while that > experience is going on. My view is that there is > a state of attention from which one can experience > Brahman, but it's still Just Another State Of > Attention. All states of attention are open to > interpretation. > Perhaps. Perhaps that's not what I meant, BTW. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB > wrote: > > > > > > > Yup. It's also *still identification*. In the > > > > Buddhist paradigm, the goal is to identify with > > > > *no* point of view or state of attention, but > > > > to transcend them all and identify with *nothing*. > > > > > > > > This actually becomes a practical exercise when > > > > one starts "multitasking," and experiencing > > > > multiple states of attention at the same time. > > > > It's yet another of the TM oversimplifications > > > > that states of consciousness/states of attention > > > > happen only one a time. > > > > > > Well, now, that's a teaching of MMY *I've* never > > > heard. > > > > I have never heard that there was a goal in the Buddhist > > paradigm, for that matter. > > Technically you are correct; it's more of non-goal, > something that one not-does. :-) > Do and not-do, worrying about it seems silly, not to mention, well, silly. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB > wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" > > > > wrote: > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Whatever floats your boat. :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > As long as we're dealing with speculation, I > > > > > > think you're pretty heavily invested in not > > > > > > being responsible for your own decisions and > > > > > > actions. Something in you doesn't believe that > > > > > > they could ever be perfect if it was "you" that > > > > > > made the decisions. So you like to believe that > > > > > > the universe goes to the trouble of making them > > > > > > all for you. > > > > > > > > > > It isn't about one set of decisions/actions that you > > > > > would make if you were "in charge" versus a different > > > > > set that would be made if the universe were "in charge." > > > > > It's the same set of decisions/actions in both cases. > > > > > The only difference is your experience of who/what is > > > > > "in charge" of them. > > > > > > > > Your experience of who/what is in charge of them, > > > > plus your *preference* as to which of those to base > > > > your life in the relative on. *Especially* if your > > > > experience is that *both* "in charge" and "not in > > > > charge" are your experience, *simultaneously*. Then > > > > it becomes all about *both* of these things being > > > > true, from their respective states of attention, > > > > and the only issue is which one you choose to > > > > focus on. > > > > > > Non sequitur. Above you suggested Trinity had in mind > > > an "imperfect" vs. a "perfect" set of actions. I'm > > > pointing out that this is not the case, as I read what > > > he wrote. He's talking about the experience of who is > > > "in charge" with regard to the *same* set of actions. > > > > Of course, is it really the "same set of actions?" The river and > > all that... > > Talking about a single set of actions, not two similar > sets. > With or without enlightenment? Seems to me that you can't evaluate the exact similarity in that context, or have I missed something? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Awakening is the "opposite" of waking state in the > sense that in waking state "you" are inside a huge > physical world which is "outside" you. In Realization > the entire world is inside you. It hangs like a basket > in "your" awareness. Like the "goodie" basket the stars each get at the Oscars? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > TorquoiseB: snipped > Bingo. You're on a roll today. Some are convinced > that their subjective experience of Brahman *is* > Brahman, or that "they" are Brahman while that > experience is going on. My view is that there is > a state of attention from which one can experience > Brahman, but it's still Just Another State Of > Attention. All states of attention are open to > interpretation. > > Tom T: > It is my experience, not my view, that Brahman is > the point where one > begins to know that any state of Consciousness is > available at any > time just through attention. Until that point one > doesn't know > intimately this as a continuum of awareness. One can > be at any point > value of consciousness at any time. Kind of neat > actually. One then > gets to go back and integrate all the parts of > ourselves that had been > isolated. There is also a 180 degree shift in > reference point. It > feels like instead of being in the penthouse looking > out one is now > established in the heart and looking in. Poor > analogy but a real > change in how things are seen and processed. > Initially feels like > there is no center anymore. In computer terms one > looses the central > processor and it all shifts to distributed > processing. In other words > no processing occurs internally it all occurs out > there where ever the > attention falls. Ultimately one kind of gets that > the inside is now > the outside and the outside has moved inside. > ANother poor analogy but > the best that can be done today. Tom T Awakening is the "opposite" of waking state in the sense that in waking state "you" are inside a huge physical world which is "outside" you. In Realization the entire world is inside you. It hangs like a basket in "your" awareness. > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ~--> > Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and > poor with hope and healing > http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM > ~-> > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Or go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > and click 'Join This Group!' > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
TorquoiseB: snipped Bingo. You're on a roll today. Some are convinced that their subjective experience of Brahman *is* Brahman, or that "they" are Brahman while that experience is going on. My view is that there is a state of attention from which one can experience Brahman, but it's still Just Another State Of Attention. All states of attention are open to interpretation. Tom T: It is my experience, not my view, that Brahman is the point where one begins to know that any state of Consciousness is available at any time just through attention. Until that point one doesn't know intimately this as a continuum of awareness. One can be at any point value of consciousness at any time. Kind of neat actually. One then gets to go back and integrate all the parts of ourselves that had been isolated. There is also a 180 degree shift in reference point. It feels like instead of being in the penthouse looking out one is now established in the heart and looking in. Poor analogy but a real change in how things are seen and processed. Initially feels like there is no center anymore. In computer terms one looses the central processor and it all shifts to distributed processing. In other words no processing occurs internally it all occurs out there where ever the attention falls. Ultimately one kind of gets that the inside is now the outside and the outside has moved inside. ANother poor analogy but the best that can be done today. Tom T Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB > wrote: > > > > > > > > Whatever floats your boat. :-) > > > > > > > > As long as we're dealing with speculation, I > > > > think you're pretty heavily invested in not > > > > being responsible for your own decisions and > > > > actions. Something in you doesn't believe that > > > > they could ever be perfect if it was "you" that > > > > made the decisions. So you like to believe that > > > > the universe goes to the trouble of making them > > > > all for you. > > > > > > It isn't about one set of decisions/actions that you > > > would make if you were "in charge" versus a different > > > set that would be made if the universe were "in charge." > > > It's the same set of decisions/actions in both cases. > > > The only difference is your experience of who/what is > > > "in charge" of them. > > > > Perhaps "an interpretation of the experience" might be more > > accurate... > > Bingo. You're on a roll today. Some are convinced > that their subjective experience of Brahman *is* > Brahman, or that "they" are Brahman while that > experience is going on. My view is that there is > a state of attention from which one can experience > Brahman, but it's still Just Another State Of > Attention. All states of attention are open to > interpretation. Makes no difference to what I was explaining to Barry, just for the record. His interpretation of what Michael had said is still wrong. (His notion of what Michael means by "Brahman," as reflected in his current response, is also rather foggy, but that's yet another issue.) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > > > Whatever floats your boat. :-) > > > > > > As long as we're dealing with speculation, I > > > think you're pretty heavily invested in not > > > being responsible for your own decisions and > > > actions. Something in you doesn't believe that > > > they could ever be perfect if it was "you" that > > > made the decisions. So you like to believe that > > > the universe goes to the trouble of making them > > > all for you. > > > > It isn't about one set of decisions/actions that you > > would make if you were "in charge" versus a different > > set that would be made if the universe were "in charge." > > It's the same set of decisions/actions in both cases. > > The only difference is your experience of who/what is > > "in charge" of them. > > Perhaps "an interpretation of the experience" might be more > accurate... Bingo. You're on a roll today. Some are convinced that their subjective experience of Brahman *is* Brahman, or that "they" are Brahman while that experience is going on. My view is that there is a state of attention from which one can experience Brahman, but it's still Just Another State Of Attention. All states of attention are open to interpretation. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > > Yup. It's also *still identification*. In the > > > Buddhist paradigm, the goal is to identify with > > > *no* point of view or state of attention, but > > > to transcend them all and identify with *nothing*. > > > > > > This actually becomes a practical exercise when > > > one starts "multitasking," and experiencing > > > multiple states of attention at the same time. > > > It's yet another of the TM oversimplifications > > > that states of consciousness/states of attention > > > happen only one a time. > > > > Well, now, that's a teaching of MMY *I've* never > > heard. > > I have never heard that there was a goal in the Buddhist > paradigm, for that matter. Technically you are correct; it's more of non-goal, something that one not-does. :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" > > > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Whatever floats your boat. :-) > > > > > > > > > > As long as we're dealing with speculation, I > > > > > think you're pretty heavily invested in not > > > > > being responsible for your own decisions and > > > > > actions. Something in you doesn't believe that > > > > > they could ever be perfect if it was "you" that > > > > > made the decisions. So you like to believe that > > > > > the universe goes to the trouble of making them > > > > > all for you. > > > > > > > > It isn't about one set of decisions/actions that you > > > > would make if you were "in charge" versus a different > > > > set that would be made if the universe were "in charge." > > > > It's the same set of decisions/actions in both cases. > > > > The only difference is your experience of who/what is > > > > "in charge" of them. > > > > > > Your experience of who/what is in charge of them, > > > plus your *preference* as to which of those to base > > > your life in the relative on. *Especially* if your > > > experience is that *both* "in charge" and "not in > > > charge" are your experience, *simultaneously*. Then > > > it becomes all about *both* of these things being > > > true, from their respective states of attention, > > > and the only issue is which one you choose to > > > focus on. > > > > Non sequitur. Above you suggested Trinity had in mind > > an "imperfect" vs. a "perfect" set of actions. I'm > > pointing out that this is not the case, as I read what > > he wrote. He's talking about the experience of who is > > "in charge" with regard to the *same* set of actions. > > Of course, is it really the "same set of actions?" The river and > all that... Talking about a single set of actions, not two similar sets. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > --- Nelson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff > > wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB > > wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > IOW if you look at it from the ego POV, there > > are lots of > > > > > mistakes and limitations, if you look from the > > POV of the > > > > > Self there aren't, everything is perfect. It's > > just a > > > > > matter from which level you look at things > > (Knowledge is > > > > > diffferent in different states of > > consciousness) But its > > > > > of course stupid to look at things from the > > ego-POV and > > > > > pretend its the Self-POV. > > > > > > > > It is *your* contention that the ego-POV is > > lesser > > > > than the Self-POV. I'm suggesting that's nothing > > > > but ego-POV, spiritual elitism. > > > > > > SELF has a POV? Thats a good one. > > > > > +++ Isn't a POV permanent unless you are unconcious? > > No. A POV is assumed because there is a confound > between counsciousness and the "I" or ego. In > Realization there is, quite literally, no point of > view. There is no localized "I". This is impossible > for the ego to understand. > > > Does the ego understand anything? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > > > > > Whatever floats your boat. :-) > > > > > > > > As long as we're dealing with speculation, I > > > > think you're pretty heavily invested in not > > > > being responsible for your own decisions and > > > > actions. Something in you doesn't believe that > > > > they could ever be perfect if it was "you" that > > > > made the decisions. So you like to believe that > > > > the universe goes to the trouble of making them > > > > all for you. > > > > > > It isn't about one set of decisions/actions that you > > > would make if you were "in charge" versus a different > > > set that would be made if the universe were "in charge." > > > It's the same set of decisions/actions in both cases. > > > The only difference is your experience of who/what is > > > "in charge" of them. > > > > "'I' am in charge of the universe" > > "The universe is in charge of 'me'" > > > > Any other options that "I" don't see? :) > > > +++ You are the universe? N. > Koo-koo kashu? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > > > Whatever floats your boat. :-) > > > > > > As long as we're dealing with speculation, I > > > think you're pretty heavily invested in not > > > being responsible for your own decisions and > > > actions. Something in you doesn't believe that > > > they could ever be perfect if it was "you" that > > > made the decisions. So you like to believe that > > > the universe goes to the trouble of making them > > > all for you. > > > > It isn't about one set of decisions/actions that you > > would make if you were "in charge" versus a different > > set that would be made if the universe were "in charge." > > It's the same set of decisions/actions in both cases. > > The only difference is your experience of who/what is > > "in charge" of them. > > "'I' am in charge of the universe" > "The universe is in charge of 'me'" > > Any other options that "I" don't see? :) > Myriad, I suspect. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" > > wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB > wrote: > > > > > > > > Whatever floats your boat. :-) > > > > > > > > As long as we're dealing with speculation, I > > > > think you're pretty heavily invested in not > > > > being responsible for your own decisions and > > > > actions. Something in you doesn't believe that > > > > they could ever be perfect if it was "you" that > > > > made the decisions. So you like to believe that > > > > the universe goes to the trouble of making them > > > > all for you. > > > > > > It isn't about one set of decisions/actions that you > > > would make if you were "in charge" versus a different > > > set that would be made if the universe were "in charge." > > > It's the same set of decisions/actions in both cases. > > > The only difference is your experience of who/what is > > > "in charge" of them. > > > > Your experience of who/what is in charge of them, > > plus your *preference* as to which of those to base > > your life in the relative on. *Especially* if your > > experience is that *both* "in charge" and "not in > > charge" are your experience, *simultaneously*. Then > > it becomes all about *both* of these things being > > true, from their respective states of attention, > > and the only issue is which one you choose to > > focus on. > > Non sequitur. Above you suggested Trinity had in mind > an "imperfect" vs. a "perfect" set of actions. I'm > pointing out that this is not the case, as I read what > he wrote. He's talking about the experience of who is > "in charge" with regard to the *same* set of actions. > > > Of course, is it really the "same set of actions?" The river and all that... > > > > > > > > > > Focus and using it is a remarkable tool of self > > discovery. Doonesbury makes a great comment about > > it in todays strip at: > > > > http://www.doonesbury.com/strip/dailydose/index.html? > > uc_full_date=20060219 > > > > In my opinion, it's all about preference -- which > > of the many congruent and simultaneously manifesting > > "realities" you choose to focus on. My preference is > > to focus on the one that seems the most productive > > at the time. Most of the time, that's the one in > > which I get to make the decisions myself and take > > the responsibility for those decisions myself. > > > > If you prefer a different focus, that's your > > preference. But IMO it's nothing more *than* > > preference. > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity wrote: > > > > > > IOW if you look at it from the ego POV, there are lots of > > > mistakes and limitations, if you look from the POV of the > > > Self there aren't, everything is perfect. It's just a > > > matter from which level you look at things (Knowledge is > > > diffferent in different states of consciousness) But its > > > of course stupid to look at things from the ego-POV and > > > pretend its the Self-POV. > > > > It is *your* contention that the ego-POV is lesser > > than the Self-POV. > > Sure thats what I said. I said that it is a lesser POV than the > highest. Yet, at this moment it is more appropriate. > > > I'm suggesting that's nothing > > but ego-POV, spiritual elitism. > > Trying get rid of the ego is spiritual elitism? Barry, you clearly > have a problem. > What ego, and who or what is doing the getting rid of? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity wrote: > > > > IOW if you look at it from the ego POV, there are lots of > > mistakes and limitations, if you look from the POV of the > > Self there aren't, everything is perfect. It's just a > > matter from which level you look at things (Knowledge is > > diffferent in different states of consciousness) But its > > of course stupid to look at things from the ego-POV and > > pretend its the Self-POV. > > It is *your* contention that the ego-POV is lesser > than the Self-POV. I'm suggesting that's nothing > but ego-POV, spiritual elitism. > My own take is that we identify our "self" as the most consistent set of beliefs, actions, feelings, etc., and that 24/7 witnessing gives a new candidate for "self" which spontaneously gets identified as the "true self" because its there 24/7, unlike the rest of the things that might be called "self." There's not trying or not-trying to define a POV, its merely a matter of definition -- in other words, what gets assigned a certain label when we talk about things either internally, or out loud. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > Whatever floats your boat. :-) > > > > As long as we're dealing with speculation, I > > think you're pretty heavily invested in not > > being responsible for your own decisions and > > actions. Something in you doesn't believe that > > they could ever be perfect if it was "you" that > > made the decisions. So you like to believe that > > the universe goes to the trouble of making them > > all for you. > > It isn't about one set of decisions/actions that you > would make if you were "in charge" versus a different > set that would be made if the universe were "in charge." > It's the same set of decisions/actions in both cases. > The only difference is your experience of who/what is > "in charge" of them. > Perhaps "an interpretation of the experience" might be more accurate... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > Yup. It's also *still identification*. In the > > Buddhist paradigm, the goal is to identify with > > *no* point of view or state of attention, but > > to transcend them all and identify with *nothing*. > > > > This actually becomes a practical exercise when > > one starts "multitasking," and experiencing > > multiple states of attention at the same time. > > It's yet another of the TM oversimplifications > > that states of consciousness/states of attention > > happen only one a time. > > Well, now, that's a teaching of MMY *I've* never > heard. > I have never heard that there was a goal in the Buddhist paradigm, for that matter. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" > wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_on_you_i_piss > > wrote: > > > > > > I hope all of this was good for the two of you. I have > > > seen better action from two gay three-legged starving > > > tom-cats going at it on top of garbage dumpsters. > > > > Man, you watch some strange videos... > > Partypooper. I was having more fun imagining him > watching it live. > Speaking of strange videos: TurquoiseB, I watched the 3 hr BBC series on the historical background of radical Islam. Some of the history was good but the agenda (the writer/producers) was so slanted and slick. It was a real exercise in separting fiction from truth. Trying to equate killing/terror with Strausian values propaganda and making the Strausian propaganda look worse than those 'freedom fighters' strikes me as a massive levels error in thinking. JohnY Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anony_sleuth_ff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" > wrote: > > > > > > They say that he who can distinguish monkey-doo from chicken-doo, all > > > knowledge blooms. > > > > > > > > > As stressor undoubtedly has heard from his sources, the next big > > > course will be focused on culturing the ability to do so. > > > > > > They are feeding pauls monkey 24/7 to have enough to go around. > > > > > > The course AFTER that, already being planned, is to be able to > > > distinguish shit from shinola. Since that ability has dissappeared, or > > > was never present, for all TBs. > > > > > +++ Shinola? That saying reaches pretty far back. Probably only a > > few of us dinosaurs could really appreciate it. > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinola > +++ I remember using it when it was just shoe polish and figured it had to pre-date all the "boomers" Now, it is used more to color the speech than shoes. N. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > They say that he who can distinguish monkey-doo from chicken-doo, all > > knowledge blooms. > > > > > > As stressor undoubtedly has heard from his sources, the next big > > course will be focused on culturing the ability to do so. > > > > They are feeding pauls monkey 24/7 to have enough to go around. > > > > The course AFTER that, already being planned, is to be able to > > distinguish shit from shinola. Since that ability has dissappeared, or > > was never present, for all TBs. > > > +++ Shinola? That saying reaches pretty far back. Probably only a > few of us dinosaurs could really appreciate it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinola Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Or this. > > Where do you guys get the energy for these almost endless mind-numbing > back and forths? Must be some new technique, I guess. Why bother? I have seen much worse here. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anony_sleuth_ff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff > > wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" > > > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff > > wrote: > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry dude, that's just chicken sh*t... > > > > > > > > > > That is one of the most insightful, powerful, well thought > > > > > out, cogent and compelling postions I have ever read on FFL. > > > > > > > > > +++ The subtle differences in the types of used food is indeed > > > > amazing. > > > > > > Yes indeed. We need more original posts with profund insights like > > > Jim's here. I have read it over now 16 times and I get chills, hair > > > standing on end, deeper meanings, each time I read it. This is > > > really heavy stuff. > > > > You're the proverbial cheap date, easily entertained. > > If you think Jim's stuff is hot, wait until you hear > > the lurid details of Paul's monkey. > > They say that he who can distinguish monkey-doo from chicken-doo, all > knowledge blooms. > > > As stressor undoubtedly has heard from his sources, the next big > course will be focused on culturing the ability to do so. > > They are feeding pauls monkey 24/7 to have enough to go around. > > The course AFTER that, already being planned, is to be able to > distinguish shit from shinola. Since that ability has dissappeared, or > was never present, for all TBs. > +++ Shinola? That saying reaches pretty far back. Probably only a few of us dinosaurs could really appreciate it. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > Great 2 cents. Here's mine. We're talking about > > identification, right, > > If still identifed you are. > > > >in different states of > > attention. Some prefer to identify with the > > POV of the state of attention in which they > > are not the doer, > > This is rich. "they are not the doer" -- if there is no doer, there is > certainly no "they". > > > and value it higher than > > the POV from other states of attention. > > Valuing one infinity more than another. Keep going. The laughter is > infinite. > > > >Some > > prefer identifying with the POV of the state > > of attention in which they are the doer. But > > either way, aren't they both still identifying > > with a particular state of attention, and a > > the point of view that goes with that state > > of attention? > > hahah. Not if there is no identification. Which seems something you > have a hard time identifying with. :) > > > > Another possibility, as I see it, > > If "you" are seeing it, "you" are identified with "you". "I am the > mirage". > > > > is to > > identify with none of them, to be comfortable > > with whatever state of attention happens to > > be predominant at the time. > > Lack of identification is not a "choice". But it may be fun mental > pseudo spiritual gymnastics. > > > >If it's an I-am- > > the-doer kinda day, be comfortable with every- > > thing you do. If it's more of a not-the-doer > > kinda day, be comfortable with everything > > you don't do. If both doer and nondoer happen > > to be running concurrently, be cool with that. > > Cool. Now its my turn to tell you what my imaginations are. Great comment. Nothing to add. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff > wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" > > wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Sorry dude, that's just chicken sh*t... > > > > > > > > That is one of the most insightful, powerful, well thought > > > > out, cogent and compelling postions I have ever read on FFL. > > > > > > > +++ The subtle differences in the types of used food is indeed > > > amazing. > > > > Yes indeed. We need more original posts with profund insights like > > Jim's here. I have read it over now 16 times and I get chills, hair > > standing on end, deeper meanings, each time I read it. This is > > really heavy stuff. > > You're the proverbial cheap date, easily entertained. > If you think Jim's stuff is hot, wait until you hear > the lurid details of Paul's monkey. They say that he who can distinguish monkey-doo from chicken-doo, all knowledge blooms. As stressor undoubtedly has heard from his sources, the next big course will be focused on culturing the ability to do so. They are feeding pauls monkey 24/7 to have enough to go around. The course AFTER that, already being planned, is to be able to distinguish shit from shinola. Since that ability has dissappeared, or was never present, for all TBs. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" > wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" > wrote: > > > > > > > > Sorry dude, that's just chicken sh*t... > > > > > > That is one of the most insightful, powerful, well thought > > > out, cogent and compelling postions I have ever read on FFL. > > > > > +++ The subtle differences in the types of used food is indeed > > amazing. > > Yes indeed. We need more original posts with profund insights like > Jim's here. I have read it over now 16 times and I get chills, hair > standing on end, deeper meanings, each time I read it. This is > really heavy stuff. You're the proverbial cheap date, easily entertained. If you think Jim's stuff is hot, wait until you hear the lurid details of Paul's monkey. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anony_sleuth_ff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" > > wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff > wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Sorry dude, that's just chicken sh*t... > > > > > > > > That is one of the most insightful, powerful, well thought out, > cogent > > > > and compelling postions I have ever read on FFL. > > > > > > > +++ The subtle differences in the types of used food is indeed > > > amazing. > > > > Yes indeed. We need more original posts with profund insights like > > Jim's here. I have read it over now 16 times and I get chills, hair > > standing on end, deeper meanings, each time I read it. This is really > > heavy stuff. > > The real issue is, do you identify with chicken-shit -- and see > chicken-shit in all beings, or do you identify with goat-droppings. > +++ We seem to be suffering from excess amounts of used bull food or maybe it was that of the horse due to so many that get beaten long after they are dead. N. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" > wrote: > > > > > > > > Sorry dude, that's just chicken sh*t... > > > > > > That is one of the most insightful, powerful, well thought out, cogent > > > and compelling postions I have ever read on FFL. > > > > > +++ The subtle differences in the types of used food is indeed > > amazing. > > Yes indeed. We need more original posts with profund insights like > Jim's here. I have read it over now 16 times and I get chills, hair > standing on end, deeper meanings, each time I read it. This is really > heavy stuff. The real issue is, do you identify with chicken-shit -- and see chicken-shit in all beings, or do you identify with goat-droppings. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" wrote: > > > > > > Sorry dude, that's just chicken sh*t... > > > > That is one of the most insightful, powerful, well thought out, cogent > > and compelling postions I have ever read on FFL. > > > +++ The subtle differences in the types of used food is indeed > amazing. Yes indeed. We need more original posts with profund insights like Jim's here. I have read it over now 16 times and I get chills, hair standing on end, deeper meanings, each time I read it. This is really heavy stuff. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" wrote: > > > > Sorry dude, that's just chicken sh*t... > > That is one of the most insightful, powerful, well thought out, cogent > and compelling postions I have ever read on FFL. > +++ The subtle differences in the types of used food is indeed amazing. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > --- Nelson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff > > wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB > > wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > IOW if you look at it from the ego POV, there > > are lots of > > > > > mistakes and limitations, if you look from the > > POV of the > > > > > Self there aren't, everything is perfect. It's > > just a > > > > > matter from which level you look at things > > (Knowledge is > > > > > diffferent in different states of > > consciousness) But its > > > > > of course stupid to look at things from the > > ego-POV and > > > > > pretend its the Self-POV. > > > > > > > > It is *your* contention that the ego-POV is > > lesser > > > > than the Self-POV. I'm suggesting that's nothing > > > > but ego-POV, spiritual elitism. > > > > > > SELF has a POV? Thats a good one. > > > > > +++ Isn't a POV permanent unless you are unconcious? > > No. A POV is assumed because there is a confound > between counsciousness and the "I" or ego. In > Realization there is, quite literally, no point of > view. There is no localized "I". This is impossible > for the ego to understand. +++ This makes me a bit apprehensive about becoming realized- sounds like a big wasteland. Am enjoying my POV and,now will be in less hurry to be enlightened . Thank you.N. > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ~--> > > Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and > > poor with hope and healing > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM > > > ~-> > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Or go to: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > > and click 'Join This Group!' > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > > > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Sorry dude, that's just chicken sh*t... That is one of the most insightful, powerful, well thought out, cogent and compelling postions I have ever read on FFL. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- Nelson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB > wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity > wrote: > > > > > > > > IOW if you look at it from the ego POV, there > are lots of > > > > mistakes and limitations, if you look from the > POV of the > > > > Self there aren't, everything is perfect. It's > just a > > > > matter from which level you look at things > (Knowledge is > > > > diffferent in different states of > consciousness) But its > > > > of course stupid to look at things from the > ego-POV and > > > > pretend its the Self-POV. > > > > > > It is *your* contention that the ego-POV is > lesser > > > than the Self-POV. I'm suggesting that's nothing > > > but ego-POV, spiritual elitism. > > > > SELF has a POV? Thats a good one. > > > +++ Isn't a POV permanent unless you are unconcious? No. A POV is assumed because there is a confound between counsciousness and the "I" or ego. In Realization there is, quite literally, no point of view. There is no localized "I". This is impossible for the ego to understand. > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ~--> > Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and > poor with hope and healing > http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM > ~-> > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Or go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > and click 'Join This Group!' > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
The Universe wanted YOU to experience it. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Not this again. > > > On Feb 19, 2006, at 9:44 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity wrote: > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
Or this. Where do you guys get the energy for these almost endless mind-numbing back and forths? Must be some new technique, I guess. Sal On Feb 19, 2006, at 9:44 AM, authfriend wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" > > > wrote:
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
Not this again. On Feb 19, 2006, at 9:44 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity wrote: > > >
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity wrote: > > > > > > IOW if you look at it from the ego POV, there are lots of > > > mistakes and limitations, if you look from the POV of the > > > Self there aren't, everything is perfect. It's just a > > > matter from which level you look at things (Knowledge is > > > diffferent in different states of consciousness) But its > > > of course stupid to look at things from the ego-POV and > > > pretend its the Self-POV. > > > > It is *your* contention that the ego-POV is lesser > > than the Self-POV. I'm suggesting that's nothing > > but ego-POV, spiritual elitism. > > SELF has a POV? Thats a good one. > +++ Isn't a POV permanent unless you are unconcious? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff > wrote: > > > > SELF has a POV? Thats a good one. > > Actually, that's what I am saying. The state of > attention in which one perceives that one is > not the doer is Just Another State Of Attention. > It's not really Self. OK. But who said it was "Self"? The mind, via experince has a POV. The intellect, via experince has a POV. The camera via experience has a POV (film or flashcard). The PC via its OS has a POV. If "YOU" experience an "I" then "YOU" feel that "YOU" have a POV. If there is no "I", then there are just POVs. Not MY POV. Just thoughts. And you know how to treat thoughts. Probably similar to what your mind was thinking. Or maybe not. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > > > Whatever floats your boat. :-) > > > > > > As long as we're dealing with speculation, I > > > think you're pretty heavily invested in not > > > being responsible for your own decisions and > > > actions. Something in you doesn't believe that > > > they could ever be perfect if it was "you" that > > > made the decisions. So you like to believe that > > > the universe goes to the trouble of making them > > > all for you. > > > > It isn't about one set of decisions/actions that you > > would make if you were "in charge" versus a different > > set that would be made if the universe were "in charge." > > It's the same set of decisions/actions in both cases. > > The only difference is your experience of who/what is > > "in charge" of them. > > "'I' am in charge of the universe" > "The universe is in charge of 'me'" > > Any other options that "I" don't see? :) > +++ You are the universe? N. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" > wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB > wrote: > > > > > > > Yup. It's also *still identification*. In the > > > > Buddhist paradigm, the goal is to identify with > > > > *no* point of view or state of attention, but > > > > to transcend them all and identify with *nothing*. > > > > > > > > This actually becomes a practical exercise when > > > > one starts "multitasking," and experiencing > > > > multiple states of attention at the same time. > > > > It's yet another of the TM oversimplifications > > > > that states of consciousness/states of attention > > > > happen only one a time. > > > > > > Well, now, that's a teaching of MMY *I've* never > > > heard. > > > > > +++ Recall the song about the guy that didn't have a point > > of view and lived in nowhere land? I felt bad for him but > > now realize he must have had it together seriously. N. > > Well, the song was released before the Beatles > discovered Maharishi, so how together could they > have been, right? Everybody knows that they only > developed talent after meeting him. :-) Helter Skelter. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, foufou_fl wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote:
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity wrote:
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > So if I stand in the rain and get wet, it's
> > > > > the result of my choice. I take responsibility
> > > > > for my wetness and having caused it.
> > > >
> > > > No, its the rain which makes you wet. The rain makes you
> > > > go inside.
> > >
> > > Actually, I kinda like walking in the rain. So the
> > > rain *doesn't* make me go inside. I make my own
> > > decisions based on the requirements of the moment.
> > >
> > > > > It he stands in the rain and gets wet, it's
> > > > > because the universe wanted it that way. :-)
> > > >
> > > > The universe wanted him to go inside.
> > >
> > > It must be nice to be so important that the universe
> > > has to figure out whether you should go inside or
> > > not. I'm not that important, so I get to make such
> > > decisions myself. :-)
> >
> > The universe is inside of me. The rain is inside of me.
> > Its less complicated than what you face.
>
> Quite possibly. But don't your organs get all
> soggy?
Clearly the sun is inside too, silly.
{liver smores anyone?)
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[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I suspect at least part of the resistance to the idea > that one isn't in control is that > one doesn't want to > have to give up the credit for the latter. Thats impossible. The "I" will never give up the credit for the latter. But when there is no "I", its a MU (moot) and silly point. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > As acts go, I think that's one suits me better than > yours, which seems to consist of shouting, "It's not > me, not me. 'I' don't like...it's the universe doing > all this stuff. Not responsible." :-) The body "is responsible" [aka gets the effects of its actions] for what happens at the level of the body. The mind "is responsible" [aka gets the effects of its actions] for what happens at the level of the mind. The intellect "is responsible" [aka gets the effects of its actions] for what happens at the level of the intellect. The heart "is responsible" [aka gets the effects of its actions] for what happens at the level of the heart. The non-owner, non-doer "is responsible" [aka gets the effects of its non existant actions] for what happens at the level of that which does not exist. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > SELF has a POV? Thats a good one. Actually, that's what I am saying. The state of attention in which one perceives that one is not the doer is Just Another State Of Attention. It's not really Self. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity wrote: > > > > IOW if you look at it from the ego POV, there are lots of > > mistakes and limitations, if you look from the POV of the > > Self there aren't, everything is perfect. It's just a > > matter from which level you look at things (Knowledge is > > diffferent in different states of consciousness) But its > > of course stupid to look at things from the ego-POV and > > pretend its the Self-POV. > > It is *your* contention that the ego-POV is lesser > than the Self-POV. I'm suggesting that's nothing > but ego-POV, spiritual elitism. SELF has a POV? Thats a good one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity wrote: > > > > IOW if you look at it from the ego POV, there are lots of > > mistakes and limitations, if you look from the POV of the > > Self there aren't, everything is perfect. It's just a > > matter from which level you look at things (Knowledge is > > diffferent in different states of consciousness) But its > > of course stupid to look at things from the ego-POV and > > pretend its the Self-POV. > > It is *your* contention that the ego-POV is lesser > than the Self-POV. I'm suggesting that's nothing > but ego-POV, spiritual elitism. > aka > It is *your* contention that the ego-POV is lesser > than the Self-POV. I (ego) am suggesting that's nothing > but ego-POV, spiritual elitism. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > someone who in your view does not *have* free will "YOU" as does every"ONE" has freewill. When there is no"ONE" no"YOU" [claiming experiencer and doer] then freewill is a MU (moot) question. The question: Do "I" have freewill or do "I" not have feewill, is a strawman duality that will keep you going in(side) circles. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > In MY opinion, it's all about [MY] preference -- which > of the many congruent and simultaneously manifesting > "realities" [I] choose to focus on. MY preference is > to focus on the one that seems the most productive > at the time [TO ME]. Most of the time, that's the one in > which "I" get to "MAKE" the decisions MYself and take > the responsibility for those decisions MYself. Whats NOT missing in this picture? :) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > Whatever floats your boat. :-) > > > > As long as we're dealing with speculation, I > > think you're pretty heavily invested in not > > being responsible for your own decisions and > > actions. Something in you doesn't believe that > > they could ever be perfect if it was "you" that > > made the decisions. So you like to believe that > > the universe goes to the trouble of making them > > all for you. > > It isn't about one set of decisions/actions that you > would make if you were "in charge" versus a different > set that would be made if the universe were "in charge." > It's the same set of decisions/actions in both cases. > The only difference is your experience of who/what is > "in charge" of them. "'I' am in charge of the universe" "The universe is in charge of 'me'" Any other options that "I" don't see? :) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_on_you_i_piss <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" > wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > w, I smell chicken sh*t... > > > > > > > > Do you identify with it? > > > > > > > I call it checken sh*t because you change aliases regularly- > anonymous > > > ones no less, possibly so your ongoing diatribes can't be seen as > the > > > endless mostly negative and boring rants that they are. > > > > > > Also, I've never seen you in the year or so I've been a part of > this > > > group contribute something original that wasn't a commentary on > what > > > someone else wrote first. Not willing to take a stand unless > someone > > > says something first, which you then 'bravely' respond to. > > > > > > Sorry dude, that's just chicken sh*t... > > > > Is Brahman getting grumpy tonight? > > > > hahah. How would you know if i took original stands if you don't > know > > who I post as. Your regular omnicience delusions are a constant > source > > of mirth and joy. > > > > You seem to always attack the poster, rarely focus on the substance > of > > a post. > > > > But again thanks. "Identification with Brahaman" and your other > great > > one-liners should go on the top ten list of psuedo-advaita-speak joy > > and mirth enhancers. Your posts keep me laughting endlessly. > > > > Bitter! Table for one! "You" who identify with Brahman. Good luck to "YOU". May "you" thrive, prosper and D DO great things. May "YOU" experience all good things. :) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" > wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" > > > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Whatever floats your boat. :-) > > > > > > > > > > As long as we're dealing with speculation, I > > > > > think you're pretty heavily invested in not > > > > > being responsible for your own decisions and > > > > > actions. Something in you doesn't believe that > > > > > they could ever be perfect if it was "you" that > > > > > made the decisions. So you like to believe that > > > > > the universe goes to the trouble of making them > > > > > all for you. > > > > > > > > It isn't about one set of decisions/actions that you > > > > would make if you were "in charge" versus a different > > > > set that would be made if the universe were "in charge." > > > > It's the same set of decisions/actions in both cases. > > > > The only difference is your experience of who/what is > > > > "in charge" of them. > > > > > > Your experience of who/what is in charge of them, > > > plus your *preference* as to which of those to base > > > your life in the relative on. *Especially* if your > > > experience is that *both* "in charge" and "not in > > > charge" are your experience, *simultaneously*. Then > > > it becomes all about *both* of these things being > > > true, from their respective states of attention, > > > and the only issue is which one you choose to > > > focus on. > > > > Non sequitur. Above you suggested Trinity had in mind > > an "imperfect" vs. a "perfect" set of actions. I'm > > pointing out that this is not the case, as I read what > > he wrote. He's talking about the experience of who is > > "in charge" with regard to the *same* set of actions. > > I tried answering one of your posts as if you > were rational and actually interested in the > subject, and not just trying to start another > argument. My mistake. Or the universe's. Your > call. :-) Translation: Judy tried to clarify a point I had misunderstood, but rather than admit my misunderstanding, I thought I'd try changing the subject. It didn't work. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Nelson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > > Yup. It's also *still identification*. In the > > > Buddhist paradigm, the goal is to identify with > > > *no* point of view or state of attention, but > > > to transcend them all and identify with *nothing*. > > > > > > This actually becomes a practical exercise when > > > one starts "multitasking," and experiencing > > > multiple states of attention at the same time. > > > It's yet another of the TM oversimplifications > > > that states of consciousness/states of attention > > > happen only one a time. > > > > Well, now, that's a teaching of MMY *I've* never > > heard. > > > +++ Recall the song about the guy that didn't have a point > of view and lived in nowhere land? I felt bad for him but > now realize he must have had it together seriously. N. Well, the song was released before the Beatles discovered Maharishi, so how together could they have been, right? Everybody knows that they only developed talent after meeting him. :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
I like Whitman on this business of contradiction: "Do I contradict myself? Very well, I contradict myself. I am large, I contain multitudes." Quoted from memory so may not be 100% accuate, but I'm pretty sure of it. And I think it was Emerson who wrote "Consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds." --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > You've gotta get *your* consistency act together, > > dude. Either everything's perfect or it ain't. You > > can't have it both ways. > > This from the guy who howls bloody murder when > he's accused of inconsistency and has repeatedly > suggested that it is more Spiritually Advanced > to be able to revel in contradictions... > > Of course, you *can* have it both ways, because > the two ways above are each valid in a particular > state of consciousness--a principle Barry insists > on except when it conflicts with his point of > view on something, in this case free will. > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
And Ezra Pound and T. S. Eliot Fighting in the captain's tower While calypso singers laugh at them And fishermen hold flowers --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > But you're welcome to it if it floats your boat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess there is simply no choice. > > > > > > > > > > > > See? That's where we differ. I have a choice. :-) > > > > > > > > > > No, the situation is the same for us both, just you > > > > > think about it differently. > > > > > > > > +++ You stand in the rain-you get wet-problem > > > > You don't stand in the rain, you dont, no problem. > > > > Your choice, your problem. N. > > > > > > I tend to agree. For me, it's about making the > > > choice to come in out of the rain. > > > > > > As I read what trinity is saying, he doesn't > > > believe that he has that choice. Someone or > > > something else makes it for him. > > > > Right, in this particular case the nerve-cells of my skin > > that tell me,that this wetness is cold and the prickling > > sensation somewhat uncomfortable. The example is in fact > > very apt: Who wouldn't go out of the rain if he has a > > choice, so isn't he really stupid who stays there? This > > is the simplistic appeal of Barry. On a second thought you > > can see, that your reaction is more of a biological response, > > filtered through your present mental conditioning. > > > > > So if I stand in the rain and get wet, it's > > > the result of my choice. I take responsibility > > > for my wetness and having caused it. > > > > No, its the rain which makes you wet. The rain makes you > > go inside. > > > > > It he stands in the rain and gets wet, it's > > > because the universe wanted it that way. :-) > > > > The universe wanted him to go inside. > > So the guy goes inside, out of the rain. And it's > perfect. > > Here's a question for you -- would going inside > have been any *less* perfect if the individual made > the decision about whether to go inside or not > using his free will? > > I'm beginning to wonder if what you believe is > that the *only way* perfection could exist in the > universe is if the universe itself "runs things," > and there *is* no free will. > > Such a belief would imply a distrust in the > ability of decisions made by individual beings > within that universe, individuals who have free > will, to make decisions that are perfect. > > I have no problem conceiving of a universe that > runs on the operating system of karma + free will > that is nonetheless perfect. Can you? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > Yup. It's also *still identification*. In the > > Buddhist paradigm, the goal is to identify with > > *no* point of view or state of attention, but > > to transcend them all and identify with *nothing*. > > > > This actually becomes a practical exercise when > > one starts "multitasking," and experiencing > > multiple states of attention at the same time. > > It's yet another of the TM oversimplifications > > that states of consciousness/states of attention > > happen only one a time. > > Well, now, that's a teaching of MMY *I've* never > heard. > +++ Recall the song about the guy that didn't have a point of view and lived in nowhere land? I felt bad for him but now realize he must have had it together seriously. N. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, foufou_fl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > > > > So if I stand in the rain and get wet, it's > > > > the result of my choice. I take responsibility > > > > for my wetness and having caused it. > > > > > > No, its the rain which makes you wet. The rain makes you > > > go inside. > > > > Actually, I kinda like walking in the rain. So the > > rain *doesn't* make me go inside. I make my own > > decisions based on the requirements of the moment. > > > > > > It he stands in the rain and gets wet, it's > > > > because the universe wanted it that way. :-) > > > > > > The universe wanted him to go inside. > > > > It must be nice to be so important that the universe > > has to figure out whether you should go inside or > > not. I'm not that important, so I get to make such > > decisions myself. :-) > > The universe is inside of me. The rain is inside of me. > Its less complicated than what you face. Quite possibly. But don't your organs get all soggy? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > > So if I stand in the rain and get wet, it's > > > the result of my choice. I take responsibility > > > for my wetness and having caused it. > > > > No, its the rain which makes you wet. The rain makes you > > go inside. > > Actually, I kinda like walking in the rain. So the > rain *doesn't* make me go inside. I make my own > decisions based on the requirements of the moment. > > > > It he stands in the rain and gets wet, it's > > > because the universe wanted it that way. :-) > > > > The universe wanted him to go inside. > > It must be nice to be so important that the universe > has to figure out whether you should go inside or > not. I'm not that important, so I get to make such > decisions myself. :-) The universe is inside of me. The rain is inside of me. Its less complicated than what you face. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" > > > wrote: > > > > > > It isn't about one set of decisions/actions that you > > > > would make if you were "in charge" versus a different > > > > set that would be made if the universe were "in charge." > > > > It's the same set of decisions/actions in both cases. > > > > The only difference is your experience of who/what is > > > > "in charge" of them. > > > > Right Judy. > > > > > > > > > In my opinion, it's all about preference -- which > > > of the many congruent and simultaneously manifesting > > > "realities" you choose to focus on. My preference is > > > to focus on the one that seems the most productive > > > at the time. Most of the time, that's the one in > > > which I get to make the decisions myself and take > > > the responsibility for those decisions myself. > > > > > > If you prefer a different focus, that's your > > > preference. But IMO it's nothing more *than* > > > preference. > > > > Nothing wrong about having preferences. But with preferences and > > likings, its even more clear that they are not in our hands. Why > > do I like something and somebody else likes something different? > > Due to biological responses (not in your hands), experiences and > > your response to them (having had a bad experience with somebody > > you will avoid him/her), desires and psychological conditioning. > > In the end you beat your fist to your breast and say: 'It's me, > > me. I like' etc > > As acts go, I think that's one suits me better than > yours, which seems to consist of shouting, "It's not > me, not me. 'I' don't like...it's the universe doing > all this stuff. Not responsible." :-) Says Barry, completely missing the point again. BTW, if you're not taking responsibility for your actions, it means you don't take responsibility either for your "bad" actions OR your "good" actions. I suspect at least part of the resistance to the idea that one isn't in control is that one doesn't want to have to give up the credit for the latter. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity wrote: > > > > > > IOW if you look at it from the ego POV, there are lots of > > > mistakes and limitations, if you look from the POV of the > > > Self there aren't, everything is perfect. It's just a > > > matter from which level you look at things (Knowledge is > > > diffferent in different states of consciousness) But its > > > of course stupid to look at things from the ego-POV and > > > pretend its the Self-POV. > > > > It is *your* contention that the ego-POV is lesser > > than the Self-POV. > > Sure thats what I said. I said that it is a lesser POV > than the highest. Belief that there is such a thing as the "highest" POV -- and that you know what it is -- is in my opinion ego. Your entire *involvement* in this thread has been about asserting that you and your way of seeing is better than someone else's, in this case, mine. If that's not ego masturbation, what is it...the universe jacking off? :-) :-) :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" > > wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB > wrote: > > > > > > > > Whatever floats your boat. :-) > > > > > > > > As long as we're dealing with speculation, I > > > > think you're pretty heavily invested in not > > > > being responsible for your own decisions and > > > > actions. Something in you doesn't believe that > > > > they could ever be perfect if it was "you" that > > > > made the decisions. So you like to believe that > > > > the universe goes to the trouble of making them > > > > all for you. > > > > > > It isn't about one set of decisions/actions that you > > > would make if you were "in charge" versus a different > > > set that would be made if the universe were "in charge." > > > It's the same set of decisions/actions in both cases. > > > The only difference is your experience of who/what is > > > "in charge" of them. > > > > Your experience of who/what is in charge of them, > > plus your *preference* as to which of those to base > > your life in the relative on. *Especially* if your > > experience is that *both* "in charge" and "not in > > charge" are your experience, *simultaneously*. Then > > it becomes all about *both* of these things being > > true, from their respective states of attention, > > and the only issue is which one you choose to > > focus on. > > Non sequitur. Above you suggested Trinity had in mind > an "imperfect" vs. a "perfect" set of actions. I'm > pointing out that this is not the case, as I read what > he wrote. He's talking about the experience of who is > "in charge" with regard to the *same* set of actions. I tried answering one of your posts as if you were rational and actually interested in the subject, and not just trying to start another argument. My mistake. Or the universe's. Your call. :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" > > wrote: > > > > It isn't about one set of decisions/actions that you > > > would make if you were "in charge" versus a different > > > set that would be made if the universe were "in charge." > > > It's the same set of decisions/actions in both cases. > > > The only difference is your experience of who/what is > > > "in charge" of them. > > Right Judy. > > > > > In my opinion, it's all about preference -- which > > of the many congruent and simultaneously manifesting > > "realities" you choose to focus on. My preference is > > to focus on the one that seems the most productive > > at the time. Most of the time, that's the one in > > which I get to make the decisions myself and take > > the responsibility for those decisions myself. > > > > If you prefer a different focus, that's your > > preference. But IMO it's nothing more *than* > > preference. > > Nothing wrong about having preferences. But with preferences and > likings, its even more clear that they are not in our hands. Why > do I like something and somebody else likes something different? > Due to biological responses (not in your hands), experiences and > your response to them (having had a bad experience with somebody > you will avoid him/her), desires and psychological conditioning. > In the end you beat your fist to your breast and say: 'It's me, > me. I like' etc As acts go, I think that's one suits me better than yours, which seems to consist of shouting, "It's not me, not me. 'I' don't like...it's the universe doing all this stuff. Not responsible." :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" > wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > > > Whatever floats your boat. :-) > > > > > > As long as we're dealing with speculation, I > > > think you're pretty heavily invested in not > > > being responsible for your own decisions and > > > actions. Something in you doesn't believe that > > > they could ever be perfect if it was "you" that > > > made the decisions. So you like to believe that > > > the universe goes to the trouble of making them > > > all for you. > > > > It isn't about one set of decisions/actions that you > > would make if you were "in charge" versus a different > > set that would be made if the universe were "in charge." > > It's the same set of decisions/actions in both cases. > > The only difference is your experience of who/what is > > "in charge" of them. > > Your experience of who/what is in charge of them, > plus your *preference* as to which of those to base > your life in the relative on. *Especially* if your > experience is that *both* "in charge" and "not in > charge" are your experience, *simultaneously*. Then > it becomes all about *both* of these things being > true, from their respective states of attention, > and the only issue is which one you choose to > focus on. Non sequitur. Above you suggested Trinity had in mind an "imperfect" vs. a "perfect" set of actions. I'm pointing out that this is not the case, as I read what he wrote. He's talking about the experience of who is "in charge" with regard to the *same* set of actions. > > Focus and using it is a remarkable tool of self > discovery. Doonesbury makes a great comment about > it in todays strip at: > > http://www.doonesbury.com/strip/dailydose/index.html? > uc_full_date=20060219 > > In my opinion, it's all about preference -- which > of the many congruent and simultaneously manifesting > "realities" you choose to focus on. My preference is > to focus on the one that seems the most productive > at the time. Most of the time, that's the one in > which I get to make the decisions myself and take > the responsibility for those decisions myself. > > If you prefer a different focus, that's your > preference. But IMO it's nothing more *than* > preference. > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity wrote: > > > > IOW if you look at it from the ego POV, there are lots of > > mistakes and limitations, if you look from the POV of the > > Self there aren't, everything is perfect. It's just a > > matter from which level you look at things (Knowledge is > > diffferent in different states of consciousness) But its > > of course stupid to look at things from the ego-POV and > > pretend its the Self-POV. > > It is *your* contention that the ego-POV is lesser > than the Self-POV. Sure thats what I said. I said that it is a lesser POV than the highest. Yet, at this moment it is more appropriate. > I'm suggesting that's nothing > but ego-POV, spiritual elitism. Trying get rid of the ego is spiritual elitism? Barry, you clearly have a problem. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: snip > > > > It he stands in the rain and gets wet, it's > > > because the universe wanted it that way. :-) > > > > The universe wanted him to go inside. > > It must be nice to be so important that the universe > has to figure out whether you should go inside or > not. I'm not that important, so I get to make such > decisions myself. :-) > +++If you walk in the rain and get wet at 35 (F) you will perish shortly. Don't make the universe mad. N. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" > wrote: > > It isn't about one set of decisions/actions that you > > would make if you were "in charge" versus a different > > set that would be made if the universe were "in charge." > > It's the same set of decisions/actions in both cases. > > The only difference is your experience of who/what is > > "in charge" of them. Right Judy. > In my opinion, it's all about preference -- which > of the many congruent and simultaneously manifesting > "realities" you choose to focus on. My preference is > to focus on the one that seems the most productive > at the time. Most of the time, that's the one in > which I get to make the decisions myself and take > the responsibility for those decisions myself. > > If you prefer a different focus, that's your > preference. But IMO it's nothing more *than* > preference. Nothing wrong about having preferences. But with preferences and likings, its even more clear that they are not in our hands. Why do I like something and somebody else likes something different? Due to biological responses (not in your hands), experiences and your response to them (having had a bad experience with somebody you will avoid him/her), desires and psychological conditioning. In the end you beat your fist to your breast and say: 'It's me, me. I like' etc Whereas in truth you can't help. You started this thread by saying, *after a lifetime of experience* you came to the conclusion. *After a lifetime of experience*, that is pure conditioning par example. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > IOW if you look at it from the ego POV, there are lots of > mistakes and limitations, if you look from the POV of the > Self there aren't, everything is perfect. It's just a > matter from which level you look at things (Knowledge is > diffferent in different states of consciousness) But its > of course stupid to look at things from the ego-POV and > pretend its the Self-POV. It is *your* contention that the ego-POV is lesser than the Self-POV. I'm suggesting that's nothing but ego-POV, spiritual elitism. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > You've gotta get *your* consistency act together, > dude. Either everything's perfect or it ain't. You > can't have it both ways. This from the guy who howls bloody murder when he's accused of inconsistency and has repeatedly suggested that it is more Spiritually Advanced to be able to revel in contradictions... Of course, you *can* have it both ways, because the two ways above are each valid in a particular state of consciousness--a principle Barry insists on except when it conflicts with his point of view on something, in this case free will. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Has it not occurred to you that you're trying to > lecture someone who in your view does not *have* > free will and convince him to use that non-existent > free will to change his behavior and his beliefs? That you insinuate, that I'd like to change you. > Pretty silly. :-) Nope, since I'm part of the universe. > > > > I prefer the old-fashioned concepts of bhakti > > and surrender,... > > Exactly. That has been my suggestion all along, that > the philosophy you express is a matter of preference. > Period. You have a predisposition to value surrender, > so you had to conceive of something to surrender *to*. > Voila...the universe runs everything...I can surrender > to it. :-) Wrong. Its not about philosophy or who is running the show. You could be an Advaitin and surrender to the Guru. The only point is surrender of the ego, and that cannot be avoided > > ...something I have never heard of you. > > Ah...the *real* reason you're here lecturing me. This is for anybody who likes to read it. Don't you like it, you are free to not respond or even not read. FYI an earlier part of our exchange has been valued by some people who quoted it fully twice. So, its not that I am lecturing on you. You are just my hang up for the moment. > *Despite* all your talk about how everything is > perfect because the universe does it all, you're > here lecturing me on my imperfections, as you see > them. See any inherent contradiction in this? :-) No, as I am part of the universe. It's actually part of the universes perfection. Btw. I am not really talking about perfection or not, that I do not know. I just talk about accepting of what IS. > > I don't say that everybody has to go the Guru-vada, > > ...but I think that anybody missing Bhakti, or a sense of > > surrender in his path is lacking in depth and probably > > fooling himself. > > And thus...dare I say it...not perfect? :-) Sure. As there are different levels of looking at something. Something maybe perfect from one POV and imperfect from a lower POV. > You've gotta get *your* consistency act together, > dude. Either everything's perfect or it ain't. You > can't have it both ways. Why not? The universe allows for contradictions. Weren't these your words just a moment ago? > If the universe is running things and is perfect > at every moment, then how could I be missing > something? Really you don't have to take care of the universe. Let it be the problem of the universe and care about your own. As you believe in free will, don't you? > > There is no problem in fooling others, and try to appear as > > great and whitty etc, but don't fool yourself. > > Are you suggesting that I am less than perfect? > Well dude, to stay consistent with the philosophy > you've been spouting the last couple of days, you'd > have to say that's the universe's fault, not mine. > Right? After all, according to you, *it* is making > all the decisions and pulling all the strings and > running things. Sure, and thats why it makes me act in this way, so that you might gain insight just at the right time, - or not, ;-) which is okay for me. Same thing for your argument: Why didn't the Maharishi teach us right away that we are already enlightened. Why should he, if we were already enlightened, we would know, so no need really. IOW if you look at it from the ego POV, there are lots of mistakes and limitations, if you look from the POV of the Self there aren't, everything is perfect.It's just a matter from which level you look at things (Knowledge is diffferent in different states of consciousness) But its of course stupid to look at things from the ego-POV and pretend its the Self-POV. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > Whatever floats your boat. :-) > > > > As long as we're dealing with speculation, I > > think you're pretty heavily invested in not > > being responsible for your own decisions and > > actions. Something in you doesn't believe that > > they could ever be perfect if it was "you" that > > made the decisions. So you like to believe that > > the universe goes to the trouble of making them > > all for you. > > It isn't about one set of decisions/actions that you > would make if you were "in charge" versus a different > set that would be made if the universe were "in charge." > It's the same set of decisions/actions in both cases. > The only difference is your experience of who/what is > "in charge" of them. Your experience of who/what is in charge of them, plus your *preference* as to which of those to base your life in the relative on. *Especially* if your experience is that *both* "in charge" and "not in charge" are your experience, *simultaneously*. Then it becomes all about *both* of these things being true, from their respective states of attention, and the only issue is which one you choose to focus on. Focus and using it is a remarkable tool of self discovery. Doonesbury makes a great comment about it in todays strip at: http://www.doonesbury.com/strip/dailydose/index.html? uc_full_date=20060219 In my opinion, it's all about preference -- which of the many congruent and simultaneously manifesting "realities" you choose to focus on. My preference is to focus on the one that seems the most productive at the time. Most of the time, that's the one in which I get to make the decisions myself and take the responsibility for those decisions myself. If you prefer a different focus, that's your preference. But IMO it's nothing more *than* preference. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Whatever floats your boat. :-) > > As long as we're dealing with speculation, I > think you're pretty heavily invested in not > being responsible for your own decisions and > actions. Something in you doesn't believe that > they could ever be perfect if it was "you" that > made the decisions. So you like to believe that > the universe goes to the trouble of making them > all for you. It isn't about one set of decisions/actions that you would make if you were "in charge" versus a different set that would be made if the universe were "in charge." It's the same set of decisions/actions in both cases. The only difference is your experience of who/what is "in charge" of them. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > Whatever floats your boat. :-) > > > > As long as we're dealing with speculation, > > In this case we are dealing with experiences. > > > I think you're pretty heavily invested in not > > being responsible for your own decisions and > > actions. Something in you doesn't believe that > > they could ever be perfect if it was "you" that > > made the decisions. So you like to believe that > > the universe goes to the trouble of making them > > all for you. > > The question is more about the 'I', and our sense of it. Thats the > whole point, not about escaping responsibility as you wrongly > insinuate. You constantly switch from a cosmic: 'Hey, all is > illussion' to a 'every viewpoint is true (except this one)' to a > dualistic: 'You think the universe does it for you' > > I am simply relating an experience. You said you have the > same but yours is even better etc. But thats not the point. > This is childish. > > And then continue to make other people responsible for all > the odds that happened to you in the past, your spiritual > misconceptions, and you complian about, why they didn't > force certain insights on you. Has it not occurred to you that you're trying to lecture someone who in your view does not *have* free will and convince him to use that non-existent free will to change his behavior and his beliefs? Pretty silly. :-) > I prefer the old-fashioned concepts of bhakti > and surrender,... Exactly. That has been my suggestion all along, that the philosophy you express is a matter of preference. Period. You have a predisposition to value surrender, so you had to conceive of something to surrender *to*. Voila...the universe runs everything...I can surrender to it. :-) > ...something I have never heard of you. Ah...the *real* reason you're here lecturing me. *Despite* all your talk about how everything is perfect because the universe does it all, you're here lecturing me on my imperfections, as you see them. See any inherent contradiction in this? :-) > I don't say that everybody has to go the Guru-vada, > ...but I think that anybody missing Bhakti, or a sense of > surrender in his path is lacking in depth and probably > fooling himself. And thus...dare I say it...not perfect? :-) You've gotta get *your* consistency act together, dude. Either everything's perfect or it ain't. You can't have it both ways. If the universe is running things and is perfect at every moment, then how could I be missing something? > There is no problem in fooling others, and try to appear as > great and whitty etc, but don't fool yourself. Are you suggesting that I am less than perfect? Well dude, to stay consistent with the philosophy you've been spouting the last couple of days, you'd have to say that's the universe's fault, not mine. Right? After all, according to you, *it* is making all the decisions and pulling all the strings and running things. :-) :-) :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff > > wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > w, I smell chicken sh*t... > > > > > > Do you identify with it? > > > > > I call it checken sh*t because you change aliases regularly- anonymous > > ones no less, possibly so your ongoing diatribes can't be seen as the > > endless mostly negative and boring rants that they are. > > > > Also, I've never seen you in the year or so I've been a part of this > > group contribute something original that wasn't a commentary on what > > someone else wrote first. Not willing to take a stand unless someone > > says something first, which you then 'bravely' respond to. > > > > Sorry dude, that's just chicken sh*t... > > Is Brahman getting grumpy tonight? > > hahah. How would you know if i took original stands if you don't know > who I post as. Your regular omnicience delusions are a constant source > of mirth and joy. > > You seem to always attack the poster, rarely focus on the substance of > a post. > > But again thanks. "Identification with Brahaman" and your other great > one-liners should go on the top ten list of psuedo-advaita-speak joy > and mirth enhancers. Your posts keep me laughting endlessly. > Bitter! Table for one! Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Yup. It's also *still identification*. In the > Buddhist paradigm, the goal is to identify with > *no* point of view or state of attention, but > to transcend them all and identify with *nothing*. > > This actually becomes a practical exercise when > one starts "multitasking," and experiencing > multiple states of attention at the same time. > It's yet another of the TM oversimplifications > that states of consciousness/states of attention > happen only one a time. Well, now, that's a teaching of MMY *I've* never heard. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Whatever floats your boat. :-) > > As long as we're dealing with speculation, In this case we are dealing with experiences. > I think you're pretty heavily invested in not > being responsible for your own decisions and > actions. Something in you doesn't believe that > they could ever be perfect if it was "you" that > made the decisions. So you like to believe that > the universe goes to the trouble of making them > all for you. The question is more about the 'I', and our sense of it. Thats the whole point, not about escaping responsibility as you wrongly insinuate. You constantly switch from a cosmic: 'Hey, all is illussion' to a 'every viewpoint is true (except this one)' to a dualistic: 'You think the universe does it for you' I am simply relating an experience. You said you have the same but yours is even better etc. But thats not the point. This is childish. And then continue to make other people responsible for all the odds that happened to you in the past, your spiritual misconceptions, and you complian about, why they didn't force certain insights on you. Its so easy to talk all this Brahman talk intellectauly, and about the many viewpoints the self could have and how perfect it is, but its likely that it's still the ego claiming all this. The ego does not want to admitt its impotence. You can feel in perfect control about all your action, but its already trickier to feel in control of all your thoughts. Most people on this forum are TM teachers or were practising TM and are therefore familiar with the instruction that thoughts don't need to be controlled, simply because it is so difficult, and it would cause strain. Even if you can control your thoughts, it doesn't mean you have controlled the mind completely. And then who is you, who controls? Therefore, for the ego to claim self-design of consciousness, you know, having as many view-points as you want, is just a farce, so popular it may be as a New-Age concept. I prefer the old-fashioned concepts of bhakti and surrender, something I have never heard of you.I don't say that everybody has to go the Guru-vada, but I think that anybody missing Bhakti, or a sense of surrender in his path is lacking in depth and probably fooling himself.There is no problem in fooling others, and try to appear as great and whitty etc, but don't fool yourself. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
Whatever floats your boat. :-) As long as we're dealing with speculation, I think you're pretty heavily invested in not being responsible for your own decisions and actions. Something in you doesn't believe that they could ever be perfect if it was "you" that made the decisions. So you like to believe that the universe goes to the trouble of making them all for you. Whatever floats your boat. :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > Because you didn't have the 'same' You surely had some > > > degree of witnessing, but you didn't have the experience > > > that you are not in charge. Or did you have the experience > > > that you are not in charge, and then refused this > > > recognition intelectually later? > > > > I began to have the experience of "not in charge" > > *simultaneously* with the experience of being very > > much in charge. No conflict, both coexisting not > > only peacably, but elegantly. Both, in my opinion, > > are nothing more than illusory points of view, a > > tiny subset of trillions of points of view. One > > can hold thousands of contradictory points of view > > in the mind at the same time, not just these two. > > It's really kinda fun; I recommend it. > > Now, just for the fun of it, I give you my interpretation of your > experience (if it was one and you didn't just make it up). It is of > course one Point of View, just another one, we'll see how you can > integrate this one: > > Feeling, that 'I have choice' or 'I am the originator of my action' or > subsequently 'I am the originator of My thoughts leading to this > action' is the normal way of most peoples experience. It is the > ego-self feeling in charge. > > Now obviously you started to have an experience of 'not being in > charge', that is the ego-self taking authorship subsided. But as the > ego-self doesn't give up easily, and tends to reassert itself to > survive, it came up with a second, parallel experience as you say, > that it nevertheless is simultaneously in charge, and quite possibly > you connected it with some philosophic insights, to justify that > feeling, and to ultimately reject the consequences of the insight of > the initial experience 'I am not in charge', and rationalize it with > some philosophic ponderings. > > You rejected the first experience and rationalized it away,thinking > that it was harmoniously coexisting with its opposite viewpoint, which > after all you very strongly rejected in the discussion with me, and > made fun of (why not), which rather shows that they don't coexist > harmoniously in your mind after all. Now I really don't mind all this, > because you really can't do anything about it, neither can I. Its just > the way it is. > > > In my opinion, *all* of these points of view are > > not only valid, but coexistent at every moment, > > eternally. > > Sure, that means you agree with me? > > > None of them is "higher" or more > > "evolved" or more "right" than another. All have > > exactly the same validity, which is none, because > > none of them even exist. > > Barry, no need for me to disagree here. There is no higher and lower, > because higher and lower are relative terms, and we are talking about > the absolute here which is outside the of any relational terms. But > this, from my present perspective, which is lower, is the highest > perspective. So from the highest perspective I understand, there is no > ignorance or enlightenment. But experientially this is not my > perspective yet, even though I may have glimpses of it at times. > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > > > > > > But you're welcome to it if it floats your boat. > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess there is simply no choice. > > > > > > > > > > See? That's where we differ. I have a choice. :-) > > > > > > > > No, the situation is the same for us both, just you > > > > think about it differently. > > > > > > +++ You stand in the rain-you get wet-problem > > > You don't stand in the rain, you dont, no problem. > > > Your choice, your problem. N. > > > > I tend to agree. For me, it's about making the > > choice to come in out of the rain. > > > > As I read what trinity is saying, he doesn't > > believe that he has that choice. Someone or > > something else makes it for him. > > Right, in this particular case the nerve-cells of my skin > that tell me,that this wetness is cold and the prickling > sensation somewhat uncomfortable. The example is in fact > very apt: Who wouldn't go out of the rain if he has a > choice, so isn't he really stupid who stays there? This > is the simplistic appeal of Barry. On a second thought you > can see, that your reaction is more of a biological response, > filtered through your present mental conditioning. > > > So if I stand in the rain and get wet, it's > > the result of my choice. I take responsibility > > for my wetness and having caused it. > > No, its the rain which makes you wet. The rain makes you > go inside. > > > It he stands in the rain and gets wet, it's > > because the universe wanted it that way. :-) > > The universe wanted him to go inside. So the guy goes inside, out of the rain. And it's perfect. Here's a question for you -- would going inside have been any *less* perfect if the individual made the decision about whether to go inside or not using his free will? I'm beginning to wonder if what you believe is that the *only way* perfection could exist in the universe is if the universe itself "runs things," and there *is* no free will. Such a belief would imply a distrust in the ability of decisions made by individual beings within that universe, individuals who have free will, to make decisions that are perfect. I have no problem conceiving of a universe that runs on the operating system of karma + free will that is nonetheless perfect. Can you? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Because you didn't have the 'same' You surely had some > > degree of witnessing, but you didn't have the experience > > that you are not in charge. Or did you have the experience > > that you are not in charge, and then refused this > > recognition intelectually later? > > I began to have the experience of "not in charge" > *simultaneously* with the experience of being very > much in charge. No conflict, both coexisting not > only peacably, but elegantly. Both, in my opinion, > are nothing more than illusory points of view, a > tiny subset of trillions of points of view. One > can hold thousands of contradictory points of view > in the mind at the same time, not just these two. > It's really kinda fun; I recommend it. Now, just for the fun of it, I give you my interpretation of your experience (if it was one and you didn't just make it up). It is of course one Point of View, just another one, we'll see how you can integrate this one: Feeling, that 'I have choice' or 'I am the originator of my action' or subsequently 'I am the originator of My thoughts leading to this action' is the normal way of most peoples experience. It is the ego-self feeling in charge. Now obviously you started to have an experience of 'not being in charge', that is the ego-self taking authorship subsided. But as the ego-self doesn't give up easily, and tends to reassert itself to survive, it came up with a second, parallel experience as you say, that it nevertheless is simultaneously in charge, and quite possibly you connected it with some philosophic insights, to justify that feeling, and to ultimately reject the consequences of the insight of the initial experience 'I am not in charge', and rationalize it with some philosophic ponderings. You rejected the first experience and rationalized it away,thinking that it was harmoniously coexisting with its opposite viewpoint, which after all you very strongly rejected in the discussion with me, and made fun of (why not), which rather shows that they don't coexist harmoniously in your mind after all. Now I really don't mind all this, because you really can't do anything about it, neither can I. Its just the way it is. > In my opinion, *all* of these points of view are > not only valid, but coexistent at every moment, > eternally. Sure, that means you agree with me? > None of them is "higher" or more > "evolved" or more "right" than another. All have > exactly the same validity, which is none, because > none of them even exist. Barry, no need for me to disagree here. There is no higher and lower, because higher and lower are relative terms, and we are talking about the absolute here which is outside the of any relational terms. But this, from my present perspective, which is lower, is the highest perspective. So from the highest perspective I understand, there is no ignorance or enlightenment. But experientially this is not my perspective yet, even though I may have glimpses of it at times. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > > > > > > But you're welcome to it if it floats your boat. > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess there is simply no choice. > > > > > > > > > > See? That's where we differ. I have a choice. :-) > > > > > > > > No, the situation is the same for us both, just you > > > > think about it differently. > > > > > > +++ You stand in the rain-you get wet-problem > > > You don't stand in the rain, you dont, no problem. > > > Your choice, your problem. N. > > > > I tend to agree. For me, it's about making the > > choice to come in out of the rain. > > > > As I read what trinity is saying, he doesn't > > believe that he has that choice. Someone or > > something else makes it for him. > > Right, in this particular case the nerve-cells of my skin > that tell me,that this wetness is cold and the prickling > sensation somewhat uncomfortable. The example is in fact > very apt: Who wouldn't go out of the rain if he has a > choice, so isn't he really stupid who stays there? This > is the simplistic appeal of Barry. On a second thought you > can see, that your reaction is more of a biological response, > filtered through your present mental conditioning. > > > So if I stand in the rain and get wet, it's > > the result of my choice. I take responsibility > > for my wetness and having caused it. > > No, its the rain which makes you wet. The rain makes you > go inside. Actually, I kinda like walking in the rain. So the rain *doesn't* make me go inside. I make my own decisions based on the requirements of the moment. > > It he stands in the rain and gets wet, it's > > because the universe wanted it that way. :-) > > The universe wanted him to go inside. It must be nice to be so important that the universe has to figure out whether you should go inside or not. I'm not that important, so I get to make such decisions myself. :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > But you're welcome to it if it floats your boat. > > > > > > > > > > I guess there is simply no choice. > > > > > > > > See? That's where we differ. I have a choice. :-) > > > > > > No, the situation is the same for us both, just you think about > it > > > differently. > > > > +++ You stand in the rain-you get wet-problem > > You don't stand in the rain, you dont, no problem. > > Your choice, your problem. N. > > I tend to agree. For me, it's about making the > choice to come in out of the rain. > > As I read what trinity is saying, he doesn't > believe that he has that choice. Someone or > something else makes it for him. Right, in this particular case the nerve-cells of my skin that tell me,that this wetness is cold and the prickling sensation somewhat uncomfortable. The example is in fact very apt: Who wouldn't go out of the rain if he has a choice, so isn't he really stupid who stays there? This is the simplistic appeal of Barry. On a second thought you can see, that your reaction is more of a biological response, filtered through your present mental conditioning. > So if I stand in the rain and get wet, it's > the result of my choice. I take responsibility > for my wetness and having caused it. No, its the rain which makes you wet. The rain makes you go inside. > It he stands in the rain and gets wet, it's > because the universe wanted it that way. :-) The universe wanted him to go inside. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB > wrote: > > > > Great 2 cents. Here's mine. We're talking about > > identification, right, in different states of > > attention. Some prefer to identify with the > > POV of the state of attention in which they > > are not the doer, and value it higher than > > the POV from other states of attention. Some > > prefer identifying with the POV of the state > > of attention in which they are the doer. But > > either way, aren't they both still identifying > > with a particular state of attention, and a > > the point of view that goes with that state > > of attention? > > > > Another possibility, as I see it, is to > > identify with none of them, to be comfortable > > with whatever state of attention happens to > > be predominant at the time. If it's an I-am- > > the-doer kinda day, be comfortable with every- > > thing you do. If it's more of a not-the-doer > > kinda day, be comfortable with everything > > you don't do. If both doer and nondoer happen > > to be running concurrently, be cool with that. > > Thanks. I agree with you that any attempt at trying > to determine or being hung up on POV takes away > from whatever experience is going on. Yup. It's also *still identification*. In the Buddhist paradigm, the goal is to identify with *no* point of view or state of attention, but to transcend them all and identify with *nothing*. This actually becomes a practical exercise when one starts "multitasking," and experiencing multiple states of attention at the same time. It's yet another of the TM oversimplifications that states of consciousness/states of attention happen only one a time. One can experience *many* of them, "running concurrently" as it were. When that happens, the issue of "Which one do I choose to identify with" becomes a real issue. The way Buddhists choose to deal with it is to identify with none of them, to treat all of them, and identification itself, as illusory. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" > wrote: > > > > > > > w, I smell chicken sh*t... > > > > Do you identify with it? > > > I call it checken sh*t because you change aliases regularly- anonymous > ones no less, possibly so your ongoing diatribes can't be seen as the > endless mostly negative and boring rants that they are. > > Also, I've never seen you in the year or so I've been a part of this > group contribute something original that wasn't a commentary on what > someone else wrote first. Not willing to take a stand unless someone > says something first, which you then 'bravely' respond to. Its so wonderful to watch how the deluded mind works -- hopping from cognitive error to cognitive error -- all the while oblivious to it all. So --- let see,how would the above works. You see -- what you view as -- a negative post and since you have pegged some anon as a poster of such, you assume she/he wrote it. You see an "original" or positive post, and that doesn't fit your crude stereotype of what that bad bad "negative" anon would write. So its clear, in your mind, the positive or original post can't be authored by that bad bad anon. Seems to be sort of a self-fulfilling mind-set. An infinite loop of delusion. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- jim_flanegin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, > "jim_flanegin" > wrote: > > > > > > > w, I smell chicken sh*t... > > > > Do you identify with it? > > > I call it checken sh*t because you change aliases > regularly- anonymous > ones no less, possibly so your ongoing diatribes > can't be seen as the > endless mostly negative and boring rants that they > are. > > Also, I've never seen you in the year or so I've > been a part of this > group contribute something original that wasn't a > commentary on what > someone else wrote first. Not willing to take a > stand unless someone > says something first, which you then 'bravely' > respond to. > > Sorry dude, that's just chicken sh*t... More goatish in my olfactory sense ;-) > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ~--> > Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and > poor with hope and healing > http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM > ~-> > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Or go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > and click 'Join This Group!' > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" > wrote: > > > > > > > w, I smell chicken sh*t... > > > > Do you identify with it? > > > I call it checken sh*t because you change aliases regularly- anonymous > ones no less, possibly so your ongoing diatribes can't be seen as the > endless mostly negative and boring rants that they are. > > Also, I've never seen you in the year or so I've been a part of this > group contribute something original that wasn't a commentary on what > someone else wrote first. Not willing to take a stand unless someone > says something first, which you then 'bravely' respond to. > > Sorry dude, that's just chicken sh*t... Is Brahman getting grumpy tonight? hahah. How would you know if i took original stands if you don't know who I post as. Your regular omnicience delusions are a constant source of mirth and joy. You seem to always attack the poster, rarely focus on the substance of a post. But again thanks. "Identification with Brahaman" and your other great one-liners should go on the top ten list of psuedo-advaita-speak joy and mirth enhancers. Your posts keep me laughting endlessly. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" wrote: > > > > > w, I smell chicken sh*t... > > Do you identify with it? > I call it checken sh*t because you change aliases regularly- anonymous ones no less, possibly so your ongoing diatribes can't be seen as the endless mostly negative and boring rants that they are. Also, I've never seen you in the year or so I've been a part of this group contribute something original that wasn't a commentary on what someone else wrote first. Not willing to take a stand unless someone says something first, which you then 'bravely' respond to. Sorry dude, that's just chicken sh*t... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: > > > > Great 2 cents. Here's mine. We're talking about > > identification, right, > > If still identifed you are. > > > >in different states of > > attention. Some prefer to identify with the > > POV of the state of attention in which they > > are not the doer, > > This is rich. "they are not the doer" -- if there is no doer, there is > certainly no "they". > > > and value it higher than > > the POV from other states of attention. > > Valuing one infinity more than another. Keep going. The laughter is > infinite. > > > >Some > > prefer identifying with the POV of the state > > of attention in which they are the doer. But > > either way, aren't they both still identifying > > with a particular state of attention, and a > > the point of view that goes with that state > > of attention? > > hahah. Not if there is no identification. Which seems something you > have a hard time identifying with. :) > > > > Another possibility, as I see it, > > If "you" are seeing it, "you" are identified with "you". "I am the > mirage". > > > > is to > > identify with none of them, to be comfortable > > with whatever state of attention happens to > > be predominant at the time. > > Lack of identification is not a "choice". But it may be fun mental > pseudo spiritual gymnastics. > > > >If it's an I-am- > > the-doer kinda day, be comfortable with every- > > thing you do. If it's more of a not-the-doer > > kinda day, be comfortable with everything > > you don't do. If both doer and nondoer happen > > to be running concurrently, be cool with that. > > Cool. Now its my turn to tell you what my imaginations are. > The gnat reappears...bzz...zzz...zzz Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > w, I smell chicken sh*t... Do you identify with it? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Value of Tradition
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" > wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_on_you_i_piss > > wrote: > > > > > > I hope all of this was good for the two of you. I have > > > seen better action from two gay three-legged starving > > > tom-cats going at it on top of garbage dumpsters. > > > > Man, you watch some strange videos... > > Partypooper. I was having more fun imagining him > watching it live. > you think anon_piss or whatever is a tom-cat? could be... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~-> To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
