Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors

2011-03-25 Thread dlgegg
My vet said to keep new negative cats seperate from positives until they had 
the vaccination for felv and then just to be safe, wait a cuple of weeks to be 
sure the shot worked.  I have done that and my pos and neg cats all have had 
free run of the house for 2 years now.  No one new has tested positive so far.  
 Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote: 
 Is there any way you could use a full-spectrum light in the basement for
 Amber?  I have installed fluorescent  full-spectrum light for the cats in
 our garage cat condos; none have been sick for years!
 
 -Original Message-
 From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
 [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Maureen Olvey
 Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 2:50 AM
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
 
 
 Regarding Amber -
 
 Been doing more reading.  By keeping Amber in the basement you're not
 putting your cats at risk at all so don't feel guilty about that.  One thing
 said 60% of cats exposed to FeLV don't get it.  5-10% put it into a latent
 stage.  Only about 30% get it and die (still too many though).  Sometimes it
 can take up to a year of prolonged exposure for a healthy adult cat to get
 the virus in it's system.  I honestly think with Amber in the basement your
 cats have no chance of getting it.  You have done a wonderful thing by
 taking her in.
 
 Also - do the IFA test too.  Or do it in a couple months when you re-test if
 the ELISA comes out positive again.  Another website I read said the in
 office ELISA combo test are wrong about 50% of the time.  Wonder how many
 cats have been put down because of that.
 
 
 I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are
 profitable to the human race or doesn't..the pain which it inflicts upon
 unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me
 sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further. - Mark
 Twain
 
 
 
  Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 08:04:47 -0700
  From: jannestay...@yahoo.com
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
  Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
  
  I use to have indoor/outdoor cats, but now they are strickly indoor. There
 are 
  so many dangers outside such as cars, dogs, and the chance of encountering
 a 
  another cat with felv, for example. I do feel sorry for them sometimes,
 but I 
  have to say I would trade places with any one of them to live the life of
 luxury 
  they experinece indoors. They do long to go outside sometimes, but I
 open up 
  the windows and let them smell the fresh air. I don't feel too guilty
 about it. 
  LOL
  
  Update on Amber, my felv kitty. I've had her three and a half weeks now
 and she 
  is looking and feeling so much better! She has gained weight and still has
 a 
  good appetite. She is so sweet. My husband is building her a kitty
 palace, 
  which is eight feet long, four feet wide, and six feet tall. We bought a
 cat 
  tree to put in it so she can climb and get her exercise. I have been
 keeping her 
  in a much smaller cage (the only on I have) and letting her roam in the 
  basement a few hours a day when I can. I so wish I could bring her
 upstairs with 
  the other cats, but just don't feel I should take the risk. I am still 
  struggling a little bit with putting them at risk at all, but it is what
 it is! 
   I still plan to have Amber retested in a couple of months. Whatever
 happens, I 
  am still glad I have been given the opportunity to make a difference in
 her 
  life. Jannes 
  
  
  
  
  
  
  From: Natalie at...@optonline.net
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
  Sent: Wed, March 23, 2011 8:13:09 AM
  Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
  
  As an adopter, my views on this are very strict and well-defined - I am
  responsible for placing cats in the safest possible homes, and I would do
 no
  less.  I need to be able to sleep at night, knowing that the cats that I
  rescued and invested so much time, energy, and emotion will be safe and
  happy for a long time.
  Yes, I agree, there still are a few safe area left, but not many and none
  are 100% safe, ever. It is true that times used to be safer for cats to be
  outdoors - ours always had been, especially when I was growing up, until
 one
  of our kittens was killed by a carUnfortunately, it takes many people
 to
  understand this only after a tragedy occurs.  When an adopter tells me
 that
  their cat ALWAYS sat on the front porch, and never leftand they intend
  to do the same with a new adopted cat, I say NO!  Their old cat may have
  indeed done that, but it doesn't mean that a new cat will do it: It takes
  ONLY ONE TIME - chasing a squirrel or bird across the street, and WHAM!
  Cats can be perfectly happy indoors with tall cat trees by a window, a
  window perch, the right kind of toys to keep them interested and active.
  More and more people construct outdoor enclosures; simple ones to really

Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors

2011-03-25 Thread dlgegg
I live in the middle of the woods so we have coyotes, raccoons, and possum all 
around us.  For that reason, I do not let my babies out at night.  They usually 
go out for an hour in the morning and then are content to stay in the rest of 
the day.  Even then, they mostly stay on the deck or very close to the house.  
We have not had a problem so far.  Even when my mountain lion showed up at deer 
season, he never bothered my cats.  I think he was feeding on a couple of bucks 
that hunters wounded and never tracked down to put them out of their misery.  
He usually stays around for 2 or 3 weeks and then moves on.  He crosses our 
road about 50 yards from the house on a deer crossing.  Just in case, the first 
time I see him, I kep the cats in.  Of course, I also keep them in to protect 
them from the hunters.
 Maureen Olvey molvey...@hotmail.com wrote: 
 
 
 
 
  From: molvey...@hotmail.com
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
  Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 01:56:54 -0400
  Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
  
  
  Yikes!  I don't like those statistics at all but I believe it.
  
  I've been feeding ferals at my office for the last 8 years.  Several months 
  back I found one dead and half eaten, then another one went missing not too 
  long after that.  A week or two later I saw a coyote in the parking lot of 
  the office building next to us.  I work at night a lot so I have more of an 
  opportunity to see them than some people.  I stopped leaving food out for 
  my cats at night.  After not seeing the coyote for a while I got back in 
  the bad habit of leaving cat food out at night.  Just last week I walked 
  outside about 10 PM and there was the coyote at the food dish, which isn't 
  too far away from my front door.  The coyote didn't scare me but then I saw 
  my two remaining semi-feral cats running towards me and realized they had 
  been close by while the coyote was eating.  I've stopped leaving food out 
  and hopefully he'll move on.  I'm so scared for my cats at the office.  I 
  wish that if I left a lot of food out for the coyote he'd stay full and 
  leave the cats alone.  I don't think it works that way though.  He'll still 
  want to chase and kill them because of his instinct.
  
  I really wish pet cats could roam outside and enjoy the extra freedom.  But 
  stuff like this has made me more of an advocate of keeping them indoors all 
  the time, unless you have a cat fence or something.  Loose dogs have always 
  been a problem killing cats but I don't remember having a coyote problem as 
  a kid.
  
 
  
   Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 17:24:10 -0700
   From: hingebacktorto...@yahoo.com
   To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
   Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
   
   Maureen - I am in GA also, and analysis of coyote stomach contents showed 
   that something like 60% of them contained cat remains. I suspect that's 
   why we have such a coyote problem, even in the suburbs - they are 
   supplied with an endless number of cats as prey - somebody's cat goes 
   missing and they just replace it with another one.
   
 
 
 
 ___
 Felvtalk mailing list
 Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org


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Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
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Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors

2011-03-24 Thread Maureen Olvey




 From: molvey...@hotmail.com
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 01:56:54 -0400
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
 
 
 Yikes!  I don't like those statistics at all but I believe it.
 
 I've been feeding ferals at my office for the last 8 years.  Several months 
 back I found one dead and half eaten, then another one went missing not too 
 long after that.  A week or two later I saw a coyote in the parking lot of 
 the office building next to us.  I work at night a lot so I have more of an 
 opportunity to see them than some people.  I stopped leaving food out for my 
 cats at night.  After not seeing the coyote for a while I got back in the bad 
 habit of leaving cat food out at night.  Just last week I walked outside 
 about 10 PM and there was the coyote at the food dish, which isn't too far 
 away from my front door.  The coyote didn't scare me but then I saw my two 
 remaining semi-feral cats running towards me and realized they had been close 
 by while the coyote was eating.  I've stopped leaving food out and hopefully 
 he'll move on.  I'm so scared for my cats at the office.  I wish that if I 
 left a lot of food out for the coyote he'd stay full and leave the cats 
 alone.  I don't think it works that way though.  He'll still want to chase 
 and kill them because of his instinct.
 
 I really wish pet cats could roam outside and enjoy the extra freedom.  But 
 stuff like this has made me more of an advocate of keeping them indoors all 
 the time, unless you have a cat fence or something.  Loose dogs have always 
 been a problem killing cats but I don't remember having a coyote problem as a 
 kid.
 

 
  Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 17:24:10 -0700
  From: hingebacktorto...@yahoo.com
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
  Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
  
  Maureen - I am in GA also, and analysis of coyote stomach contents showed 
  that something like 60% of them contained cat remains. I suspect that's why 
  we have such a coyote problem, even in the suburbs - they are supplied 
  with an endless number of cats as prey - somebody's cat goes missing and 
  they just replace it with another one.
  


  
___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org


Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors

2011-03-24 Thread Maureen Olvey

Regarding Amber -

Been doing more reading.  By keeping Amber in the basement you're not putting 
your cats at risk at all so don't feel guilty about that.  One thing said 60% 
of cats exposed to FeLV don't get it.  5-10% put it into a latent stage.  Only 
about 30% get it and die (still too many though).  Sometimes it can take up to 
a year of prolonged exposure for a healthy adult cat to get the virus in it's 
system.  I honestly think with Amber in the basement your cats have no chance 
of getting it.  You have done a wonderful thing by taking her in.

Also - do the IFA test too.  Or do it in a couple months when you re-test if 
the ELISA comes out positive again.  Another website I read said the in office 
ELISA combo test are wrong about 50% of the time.  Wonder how many cats have 
been put down because of that.


“I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are 
profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon 
unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me 
sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain



 Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 08:04:47 -0700
 From: jannestay...@yahoo.com
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
 
 I use to have indoor/outdoor cats, but now they are strickly indoor. There 
 are 
 so many dangers outside such as cars, dogs, and the chance of encountering a 
 another cat with felv, for example. I do feel sorry for them sometimes, but I 
 have to say I would trade places with any one of them to live the life of 
 luxury 
 they experinece indoors. They do long to go outside sometimes, but I open 
 up 
 the windows and let them smell the fresh air. I don't feel too guilty about 
 it. 
 LOL
 
 Update on Amber, my felv kitty. I've had her three and a half weeks now and 
 she 
 is looking and feeling so much better! She has gained weight and still has a 
 good appetite. She is so sweet. My husband is building her a kitty palace, 
 which is eight feet long, four feet wide, and six feet tall. We bought a cat 
 tree to put in it so she can climb and get her exercise. I have been keeping 
 her 
 in a much smaller cage (the only on I have) and letting her roam in the 
 basement a few hours a day when I can. I so wish I could bring her upstairs 
 with 
 the other cats, but just don't feel I should take the risk. I am still 
 struggling a little bit with putting them at risk at all, but it is what it 
 is! 
  I still plan to have Amber retested in a couple of months. Whatever happens, 
 I 
 am still glad I have been given the opportunity to make a difference in her 
 life. Jannes 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 From: Natalie at...@optonline.net
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Sent: Wed, March 23, 2011 8:13:09 AM
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
 
 As an adopter, my views on this are very strict and well-defined - I am
 responsible for placing cats in the safest possible homes, and I would do no
 less.  I need to be able to sleep at night, knowing that the cats that I
 rescued and invested so much time, energy, and emotion will be safe and
 happy for a long time.
 Yes, I agree, there still are a few safe area left, but not many and none
 are 100% safe, ever. It is true that times used to be safer for cats to be
 outdoors - ours always had been, especially when I was growing up, until one
 of our kittens was killed by a carUnfortunately, it takes many people to
 understand this only after a tragedy occurs.  When an adopter tells me that
 their cat ALWAYS sat on the front porch, and never leftand they intend
 to do the same with a new adopted cat, I say NO!  Their old cat may have
 indeed done that, but it doesn't mean that a new cat will do it: It takes
 ONLY ONE TIME - chasing a squirrel or bird across the street, and WHAM!
 Cats can be perfectly happy indoors with tall cat trees by a window, a
 window perch, the right kind of toys to keep them interested and active.
 More and more people construct outdoor enclosures; simple ones to really
 elaborate ones, even just a little window screened porch. I don't believe
 that cats need to hunt; if they are homeless and hungry, yes, but there's no
 need for a well-fed cat to kill small wildlife, not for food, but for fun
 and the reflex of chasing something (could be a toy).  
 
 -Original Message-
 From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
 [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lorrie
 Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 7:56 AM
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
 
 This is a hot topic, but I agree humans and loss of habitat
 are the main threat to birds. 
 
 As for keeping cats inside.  I've had cats all my life and they
 have always been indoor/outdoor cats.  All of them have lived to
 16 to 17 years of age unless they've had some genetic problem like
 heart disease.  My cats were all rescues and they lived

Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors

2011-03-24 Thread Natalie
Is there any way you could use a full-spectrum light in the basement for
Amber?  I have installed fluorescent  full-spectrum light for the cats in
our garage cat condos; none have been sick for years!

-Original Message-
From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
[mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Maureen Olvey
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 2:50 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors


Regarding Amber -

Been doing more reading.  By keeping Amber in the basement you're not
putting your cats at risk at all so don't feel guilty about that.  One thing
said 60% of cats exposed to FeLV don't get it.  5-10% put it into a latent
stage.  Only about 30% get it and die (still too many though).  Sometimes it
can take up to a year of prolonged exposure for a healthy adult cat to get
the virus in it's system.  I honestly think with Amber in the basement your
cats have no chance of getting it.  You have done a wonderful thing by
taking her in.

Also - do the IFA test too.  Or do it in a couple months when you re-test if
the ELISA comes out positive again.  Another website I read said the in
office ELISA combo test are wrong about 50% of the time.  Wonder how many
cats have been put down because of that.


I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are
profitable to the human race or doesn't..the pain which it inflicts upon
unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me
sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further. - Mark
Twain



 Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 08:04:47 -0700
 From: jannestay...@yahoo.com
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
 
 I use to have indoor/outdoor cats, but now they are strickly indoor. There
are 
 so many dangers outside such as cars, dogs, and the chance of encountering
a 
 another cat with felv, for example. I do feel sorry for them sometimes,
but I 
 have to say I would trade places with any one of them to live the life of
luxury 
 they experinece indoors. They do long to go outside sometimes, but I
open up 
 the windows and let them smell the fresh air. I don't feel too guilty
about it. 
 LOL
 
 Update on Amber, my felv kitty. I've had her three and a half weeks now
and she 
 is looking and feeling so much better! She has gained weight and still has
a 
 good appetite. She is so sweet. My husband is building her a kitty
palace, 
 which is eight feet long, four feet wide, and six feet tall. We bought a
cat 
 tree to put in it so she can climb and get her exercise. I have been
keeping her 
 in a much smaller cage (the only on I have) and letting her roam in the 
 basement a few hours a day when I can. I so wish I could bring her
upstairs with 
 the other cats, but just don't feel I should take the risk. I am still 
 struggling a little bit with putting them at risk at all, but it is what
it is! 
  I still plan to have Amber retested in a couple of months. Whatever
happens, I 
 am still glad I have been given the opportunity to make a difference in
her 
 life. Jannes 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 From: Natalie at...@optonline.net
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Sent: Wed, March 23, 2011 8:13:09 AM
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
 
 As an adopter, my views on this are very strict and well-defined - I am
 responsible for placing cats in the safest possible homes, and I would do
no
 less.  I need to be able to sleep at night, knowing that the cats that I
 rescued and invested so much time, energy, and emotion will be safe and
 happy for a long time.
 Yes, I agree, there still are a few safe area left, but not many and none
 are 100% safe, ever. It is true that times used to be safer for cats to be
 outdoors - ours always had been, especially when I was growing up, until
one
 of our kittens was killed by a carUnfortunately, it takes many people
to
 understand this only after a tragedy occurs.  When an adopter tells me
that
 their cat ALWAYS sat on the front porch, and never leftand they intend
 to do the same with a new adopted cat, I say NO!  Their old cat may have
 indeed done that, but it doesn't mean that a new cat will do it: It takes
 ONLY ONE TIME - chasing a squirrel or bird across the street, and WHAM!
 Cats can be perfectly happy indoors with tall cat trees by a window, a
 window perch, the right kind of toys to keep them interested and active.
 More and more people construct outdoor enclosures; simple ones to really
 elaborate ones, even just a little window screened porch. I don't believe
 that cats need to hunt; if they are homeless and hungry, yes, but there's
no
 need for a well-fed cat to kill small wildlife, not for food, but for fun
 and the reflex of chasing something (could be a toy).  
 
 -Original Message-
 From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
 [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lorrie
 Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 7:56 AM

Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors

2011-03-24 Thread Diane Rosenfeldt
Edna, I agree. Four of our five cats were outside at some time in their
lives, 3 of those were feral, and 2 of *those* were kittens I trapped
myself, and they have not been outside since the day we met. Just because
they stare out the window sometimes doesn't mean they're longing for the
feel of grass beneath their toes -- though of course if there was a safe way
to give them that, I would. What PETA and the rest don't seem to get is that
Felis Domesticus is NOT a wild animal and is no match for the modern
predators of cars, trains, coyotes, and feral humans like the one you
describe below. People don't willingly let their parakeets out or let their
Betas swim in mud puddles, why do they think house cats are anything but
house cats. And, in my experience, even cats born outside get very used to
the comforts of indoors.

Years ago a couple who were online friends of mine whose two cats were their
babies, came home to find that a neighbor in their very tranquil suburban
neighborhood had accidentally backed over one of their cats. They were, of
course, devastated, and it changed their opinion of where cats are best off.
That's a horrible way to learn but it's a fact that outside cats, even ones
with owners, face many more dangers than they are equipped to handle.

Another 2 cents. I don't mean to offend those of you who don't agree, but
seeing roadkill that's supposed to be curled up in a pouffy chair somewhere
instead offends me.

Diane R.

-Original Message-
From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
[mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Edna Taylor
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 10:40 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors


Just because your kid likes to eat McDonald's every day or binge drink or do
drugs because it makes them happy is NOT a reason to allow it.  The same
reasoning goes for cats, just because they LIKE it doesn't mean it's good
for them.  My cats may be prisoners in my house but I sleep well at night
knowing they are loved and safe and from what I can tell, they are pretty
freakin happy.  I have picked up enough broken and battered bodies off the
roadways to know that NONE of my cats or fosters will EVER be allowed
outside unless it is in a safe enclosure or on a leash.  

There was a young individual (can't call him a man because real men do not
torture animals) in Dallas that took his neighbor's inside/outside cat and
over a course of several hours beat and tortured the cat and video taped the
entire thing.  THAT is what happens to outdoor cats.  While some may be
lucky enough to escape being tortured, hit by cars, eaten by coyotes or
hawks or owls, most do not escape this fate.
 
Sorry but I 100% DISAGREE with cats are wild animals and need to live
outside point of view.
 
Just my 2 cents.
 
Edna
 
 Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 09:13:09 -0400
 From: at...@optonline.net
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
 
 As an adopter, my views on this are very strict and well-defined - I 
 am responsible for placing cats in the safest possible homes, and I 
 would do no less. I need to be able to sleep at night, knowing that 
 the cats that I rescued and invested so much time, energy, and emotion 
 will be safe and happy for a long time.
 Yes, I agree, there still are a few safe area left, but not many and 
 none are 100% safe, ever. It is true that times used to be safer for 
 cats to be outdoors - ours always had been, especially when I was 
 growing up, until one of our kittens was killed by a 
 carUnfortunately, it takes many people to understand this only 
 after a tragedy occurs. When an adopter tells me that their cat ALWAYS 
 sat on the front porch, and never leftand they intend to do the 
 same with a new adopted cat, I say NO! Their old cat may have indeed 
 done that, but it doesn't mean that a new cat will do it: It takes ONLY
ONE TIME - chasing a squirrel or bird across the street, and WHAM!
 Cats can be perfectly happy indoors with tall cat trees by a window, a 
 window perch, the right kind of toys to keep them interested and active.
 More and more people construct outdoor enclosures; simple ones to 
 really elaborate ones, even just a little window screened porch. I 
 don't believe that cats need to hunt; if they are homeless and hungry, 
 yes, but there's no need for a well-fed cat to kill small wildlife, 
 not for food, but for fun and the reflex of chasing something (could be a
toy).
 
 -Original Message-
 From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
 [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lorrie
 Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 7:56 AM
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
 
 This is a hot topic, but I agree humans and loss of habitat are the 
 main threat to birds.
 
 As for keeping cats inside. I've had cats all my life and they have 
 always been indoor/outdoor cats. All of them have lived to
 16 to 17 years

Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors

2011-03-24 Thread Jannes Taylor
Thank you so much Maureen. I really appreciate you taking the time to reassure 
me. I really do love little Amber and will do the best I can for her. I can't 
help hoping and praying that the test was wrong and I can eventually let her 
join the other kids.
 Jannes 





From: Maureen Olvey molvey...@hotmail.com
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Sent: Thu, March 24, 2011 1:49:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors


Regarding Amber -

Been doing more reading.  By keeping Amber in the basement you're not putting 
your cats at risk at all so don't feel guilty about that.  One thing said 60% 
of 
cats exposed to FeLV don't get it.  5-10% put it into a latent stage.  Only 
about 30% get it and die (still too many though).  Sometimes it can take up to 
a 
year of prolonged exposure for a healthy adult cat to get the virus in it's 
system.  I honestly think with Amber in the basement your cats have no chance 
of 
getting it.  You have done a wonderful thing by taking her in.

Also - do the IFA test too.  Or do it in a couple months when you re-test if 
the 
ELISA comes out positive again.  Another website I read said the in office 
ELISA 
combo test are wrong about 50% of the time.  Wonder how many cats have been put 
down because of that.


“I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are 
profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon 
unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me 
sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain



 Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 08:04:47 -0700
 From: jannestay...@yahoo.com
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
 
 I use to have indoor/outdoor cats, but now they are strickly indoor. There 
 are 

 so many dangers outside such as cars, dogs, and the chance of encountering a 
 another cat with felv, for example. I do feel sorry for them sometimes, but I 
 have to say I would trade places with any one of them to live the life of 
luxury 

 they experinece indoors. They do long to go outside sometimes, but I open 
 up 

 the windows and let them smell the fresh air. I don't feel too guilty about 
 it. 

 LOL
 
 Update on Amber, my felv kitty. I've had her three and a half weeks now and 
 she 

 is looking and feeling so much better! She has gained weight and still has a 
 good appetite. She is so sweet. My husband is building her a kitty palace, 
 which is eight feet long, four feet wide, and six feet tall. We bought a cat 
 tree to put in it so she can climb and get her exercise. I have been keeping 
her 

 in a much smaller cage (the only on I have) and letting her roam in the 
 basement a few hours a day when I can. I so wish I could bring her upstairs 
with 

 the other cats, but just don't feel I should take the risk. I am still 
 struggling a little bit with putting them at risk at all, but it is what it 
 is! 

  I still plan to have Amber retested in a couple of months. Whatever happens, 
I 

 am still glad I have been given the opportunity to make a difference in her 
 life. Jannes 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 From: Natalie at...@optonline.net
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Sent: Wed, March 23, 2011 8:13:09 AM
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
 
 As an adopter, my views on this are very strict and well-defined - I am
 responsible for placing cats in the safest possible homes, and I would do no
 less.  I need to be able to sleep at night, knowing that the cats that I
 rescued and invested so much time, energy, and emotion will be safe and
 happy for a long time.
 Yes, I agree, there still are a few safe area left, but not many and none
 are 100% safe, ever. It is true that times used to be safer for cats to be
 outdoors - ours always had been, especially when I was growing up, until one
 of our kittens was killed by a carUnfortunately, it takes many people to
 understand this only after a tragedy occurs.  When an adopter tells me that
 their cat ALWAYS sat on the front porch, and never leftand they intend
 to do the same with a new adopted cat, I say NO!  Their old cat may have
 indeed done that, but it doesn't mean that a new cat will do it: It takes
 ONLY ONE TIME - chasing a squirrel or bird across the street, and WHAM!
 Cats can be perfectly happy indoors with tall cat trees by a window, a
 window perch, the right kind of toys to keep them interested and active.
 More and more people construct outdoor enclosures; simple ones to really
 elaborate ones, even just a little window screened porch. I don't believe
 that cats need to hunt; if they are homeless and hungry, yes, but there's no
 need for a well-fed cat to kill small wildlife, not for food, but for fun
 and the reflex of chasing something (could be a toy).  
 
 -Original Message-
 From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
 [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lorrie
 Sent

Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors

2011-03-23 Thread Maureen Olvey

From that study in CA, the American Bird Conservancy was saying that the 
answer was to trap and kill the cats.  That's the part that really irritated 
me.  Yeah, cats killed a lot of those birds.  The little tigers will kill most 
anything that moves.  It's their instinct.  But the cats got there somehow and 
even before people fed them they were there and multiplying like crazy.  
Because of a lot of different reasons and a lot of studies, Trap-Neuter-Return 
the only way that will have the long term results of cutting the population of 
free-roaming cats way down.  But, those bird brains just want to kill all 
the cats as though that will fix everything.  I like birds and I like the 
people in the ABC, and I really don't think of them as bird brains I was 
just being funny, but the idiots that run the thing and making those comments 
about killing the cats are short-sighted.  Everytime I hear something from the 
ABC I just get upset before even knowing what they're going to say because I 
know how they feel about free-roaming cats and I know they hate TNR.  
Obviously, I'm a big advocate of TNR.
 
What I'd really like to say to them is that I wonder how many of those birds 
are killed when they build the condos and board walks and everything else along 
the beaches.  They need to spend their time fighting that battle before trying 
to have the cats killed.  Maybe they do fight those battles too, but that's my 
angry comment, and I know it doesn't change the fact that the cats kill the 
poor birds, but sometimes you just want to tell people off.
 
Oh well, that's my middle of the night rantings about the ABC.  I don't like 
cats killing birds, mice, chipmonks, or even the poor snakes and keeping them 
inside is the best thing for the cats too.  I don't mind using the cat being 
killers argument to motivate people keeping their pets indoors but leave the 
ferals alone and don't start talking about killing them.
 
 

“I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are 
profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon 
unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me 
sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain


 
 Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 16:56:46 -0700
 From: hingebacktorto...@yahoo.com
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
 
 Yes, the number one cause of bird extinction is habitat loss, but cats are #2.
 There's a well-known study that was conducted on a couple of adjacent beaches 
 in California, one with a feral cat population and one without. The beach 
 that is home to feral cats has no birds - remember that most shorebirds are 
 ground nesters - while the cat-free beach supports a healthy bird population. 
 Of course, our birds have natural predators - some raptors such as red-tailed 
 hawks prey mostly on birds. Kingsnakes and rat snakes are known for feasting 
 on eggs and hatchlings. But this is natural predation  so things are kept in 
 balance. Throw in a highly efficient predator such as a cat and the balance 
 changes.
 
 --- On Tue, 3/22/11, SomeWhere Sam sin...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
 
 
 From: SomeWhere Sam sin...@sbcglobal.net
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Date: Tuesday, March 22, 2011, 4:36 PM
 
 
 Sorry but that information is outdated or biased.  
 
 The number one killer of birds is humans due to habitat loss or construction 
 for 
 same.
 
 Humans: The Number One Threat to Birds
 http://www.alleycat.org/NetCommunity/Page.aspx?pid=325
 
 SomeWhere Sam
 
 
 
 
 
 From: Bonnie Hogue ho...@sonic.net
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Sent: Tue, March 22, 2011 2:37:38 PM
 Subject: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
 
 In the newspaper today:
 
 House cats are the #1 predator of wild birds.  The American Bird Conservancy 
 estimates up to 500 million birds per year are killed by cats.  About 400,000 
 are killed yearly by wind turbines (less than 20% of the number killed by 
 cats).  So now we have another reason to keep our cats indoors -- not only 
 for 
 their own health and safety, but for that of our BIRD population!
 Save the cats and the birds: Keep Your Cat Indoors!
 ~Bonnie
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Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors

2011-03-23 Thread Maureen Olvey

You can also take it further and reiterate that humans are the #1 killers of 
birds because of the dummies that let their un-altered pet cats run around 
outside and breed and have kittens everywhere, not just because of the habitat 
destruction that we do.
 
I think where I live in GA some of the rodents are getting a reprive because 
all the coyotes who would normally eat some of the rodents are getting full on 
my feral cats.  It's so sad.  I don't hate the coyotes for doing it (just like 
I don't hate or blame cats for killing other small prey) but it breaks my heart 
everytime a feral goes missing.  
 
All points always come back to the main topic of the importance of keeping the 
cats indoors (and getting them fixed).  All we can do is spread the message and 
hope it makes a difference.  And it my part of the world it has made a huge 
difference.  When I was a kid, no one contemplated keeping a cat indoors it's 
whole life.  But now, more and more people are.  I can tell by the people I 
meet at our adoptions.  Things are changing - we just have a long way to go 
still.


“I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are 
profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon 
unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me 
sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain


 
 Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 18:23:12 -0700
 From: sin...@sbcglobal.net
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
 
 LOL Humans are a non-native, introduced and subsidized predators.G
 This is like expecting pet owners to spay or neuter their pets, interesting 
 idea, one which I would love to see, but seeing and knowing human nature is 
 not 
 going to happen in my lifetime.
 
 SomeWhere Sam
 
 
 
 
 
 From: LauraM hingebacktorto...@yahoo.com
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Sent: Tue, March 22, 2011 6:42:23 PM
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
 
 I've tried using those statistics on people who refuse to contain their cats, 
 thinking they MIGHT care about wildlife even though they clearly aren't 
 concerned with their cats' own safety. Hasn't worked. There are also people 
 out 
 there who want irresponsible owners of bird-killing cats to be held legally 
 liable, as it's a violation of federal law to kill most bird species  has 
 been 
 for decades. And in some areas cats have reduced the rodent population to 
 such 
 low numbers that migrating raptors - all federally protected - have nothing 
 to 
 eat. 
 
 Cats, as non-native, introduced and subsidized predators, have no business 
 being 
 outside.
 
 
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Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors

2011-03-23 Thread Lorrie
This is a hot topic, but I agree humans and loss of habitat
are the main threat to birds. 

As for keeping cats inside.  I've had cats all my life and they
have always been indoor/outdoor cats.  All of them have lived to
16 to 17 years of age unless they've had some genetic problem like
heart disease.  My cats were all rescues and they lived outside
before I had them, and they are totally miserable inside. 

It's really only the last couple decades that cats have been living
indoors, but the invention of cat litter and urban sprawl have made
us think all cats have the perfect life indoors, when in reality,
cats are happier if they can live outdoors. They are programmed to
hunt small animalswhich is the best nutrition for them. They need
to climb trees, stalk at night with their night vision, and be free.
Cats were not made for sitting in a window sill, and a prison is a
prison no matter how many cat toys and kitty kondos we buy for them.
 
It's true that some outdoor cats have a shorter life expectancy, but
this mostly depends on where they live. If they live in a safe area
with little or no traffic then I feel they should be allowed to be
outside. There are some cats who will never willingly settle for the
indoor life.  We live in the middle of the woods on a dead end road
with no traffic and our cats are allowed to go outside. I rarely see
them catch a bird, but they catch many mice  moles.  I feel sad to
see anything killed, but cats and dogs are predators and this is what
they were designed to do.

Lorrie


  Sorry but that information is outdated or biased. The number one 
  killer of birds is humans due to habitat loss or construction for same.
  
  Humans: The Number One Threat to Birds
  http://www.alleycat.org/NetCommunity/Page.aspx?pid=325
  
  SomeWhere Sam



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Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors

2011-03-23 Thread Natalie
They were trying to pass such legislation in Florida, too - kill all feral
cats on sight! And to be able to shoot them, if anyone even suspected them
to be homeless, in Utah - people who know nothing about cats. dogs and
wildlife, unfortunately, have the platform to come up with such asinine
plans and then enforce them - the general public are told all kinds of lies,
and unthinkingly and stupidly go along with it!
It seems that no matter what mankind (?) does, it's OK, as long as animals
aren't in the way...and if they are, well, get rid of them under some guise!

This is only one of my pet peeves: Yearly and systematically, OUR tax money
is used to poison, burn, trap, shoot and exterminate wildlife like horses,
burros, wild goats, foxes, coyotes, wolves, prairie dogs (just to name a
few) to appease ranchers who lease OUR land from the government for pennies
an acre (making huge profits), destroying it, and then moving on to the
next.Thank you Secretary of the Interior Salazar!
Thanks for letting me rant this morning!

-Original Message-
From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
[mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Maureen Olvey
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 3:38 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors


From that study in CA, the American Bird Conservancy was saying that the
answer was to trap and kill the cats.  That's the part that really irritated
me.  Yeah, cats killed a lot of those birds.  The little tigers will kill
most anything that moves.  It's their instinct.  But the cats got there
somehow and even before people fed them they were there and multiplying like
crazy.  Because of a lot of different reasons and a lot of studies,
Trap-Neuter-Return the only way that will have the long term results of
cutting the population of free-roaming cats way down.  But, those bird
brains just want to kill all the cats as though that will fix everything.
I like birds and I like the people in the ABC, and I really don't think of
them as bird brains I was just being funny, but the idiots that run the
thing and making those comments about killing the cats are short-sighted.
Everytime I hear something from the ABC I just get upset before even knowing
what they're going to say because I know how they feel about free-roaming
cats and I know they hate TNR.  Obviously, I'm a big advocate of TNR.
 
What I'd really like to say to them is that I wonder how many of those birds
are killed when they build the condos and board walks and everything else
along the beaches.  They need to spend their time fighting that battle
before trying to have the cats killed.  Maybe they do fight those battles
too, but that's my angry comment, and I know it doesn't change the fact that
the cats kill the poor birds, but sometimes you just want to tell people
off.
 
Oh well, that's my middle of the night rantings about the ABC.  I don't like
cats killing birds, mice, chipmonks, or even the poor snakes and keeping
them inside is the best thing for the cats too.  I don't mind using the cat
being killers argument to motivate people keeping their pets indoors but
leave the ferals alone and don't start talking about killing them.
 
 

I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are
profitable to the human race or doesn't..the pain which it inflicts upon
unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me
sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further. - Mark
Twain


 
 Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 16:56:46 -0700
 From: hingebacktorto...@yahoo.com
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
 
 Yes, the number one cause of bird extinction is habitat loss, but cats are
#2.
 There's a well-known study that was conducted on a couple of adjacent
beaches in California, one with a feral cat population and one without. The
beach that is home to feral cats has no birds - remember that most
shorebirds are ground nesters - while the cat-free beach supports a healthy
bird population. 
 Of course, our birds have natural predators - some raptors such as
red-tailed hawks prey mostly on birds. Kingsnakes and rat snakes are known
for feasting on eggs and hatchlings. But this is natural predation  so
things are kept in balance. Throw in a highly efficient predator such as a
cat and the balance changes.
 
 --- On Tue, 3/22/11, SomeWhere Sam sin...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
 
 
 From: SomeWhere Sam sin...@sbcglobal.net
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Date: Tuesday, March 22, 2011, 4:36 PM
 
 
 Sorry but that information is outdated or biased.  
 
 The number one killer of birds is humans due to habitat loss or
construction for 
 same.
 
 Humans: The Number One Threat to Birds
 http://www.alleycat.org/NetCommunity/Page.aspx?pid=325
 
 SomeWhere Sam
 
 
 
 
 
 From: Bonnie Hogue ho...@sonic.net
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Sent: Tue

Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors

2011-03-23 Thread Natalie
As an adopter, my views on this are very strict and well-defined - I am
responsible for placing cats in the safest possible homes, and I would do no
less.  I need to be able to sleep at night, knowing that the cats that I
rescued and invested so much time, energy, and emotion will be safe and
happy for a long time.
Yes, I agree, there still are a few safe area left, but not many and none
are 100% safe, ever. It is true that times used to be safer for cats to be
outdoors - ours always had been, especially when I was growing up, until one
of our kittens was killed by a carUnfortunately, it takes many people to
understand this only after a tragedy occurs.  When an adopter tells me that
their cat ALWAYS sat on the front porch, and never leftand they intend
to do the same with a new adopted cat, I say NO!  Their old cat may have
indeed done that, but it doesn't mean that a new cat will do it: It takes
ONLY ONE TIME - chasing a squirrel or bird across the street, and WHAM!
Cats can be perfectly happy indoors with tall cat trees by a window, a
window perch, the right kind of toys to keep them interested and active.
More and more people construct outdoor enclosures; simple ones to really
elaborate ones, even just a little window screened porch. I don't believe
that cats need to hunt; if they are homeless and hungry, yes, but there's no
need for a well-fed cat to kill small wildlife, not for food, but for fun
and the reflex of chasing something (could be a toy).  

-Original Message-
From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
[mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lorrie
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 7:56 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors

This is a hot topic, but I agree humans and loss of habitat
are the main threat to birds. 

As for keeping cats inside.  I've had cats all my life and they
have always been indoor/outdoor cats.  All of them have lived to
16 to 17 years of age unless they've had some genetic problem like
heart disease.  My cats were all rescues and they lived outside
before I had them, and they are totally miserable inside. 

It's really only the last couple decades that cats have been living
indoors, but the invention of cat litter and urban sprawl have made
us think all cats have the perfect life indoors, when in reality,
cats are happier if they can live outdoors. They are programmed to
hunt small animalswhich is the best nutrition for them. They need
to climb trees, stalk at night with their night vision, and be free.
Cats were not made for sitting in a window sill, and a prison is a
prison no matter how many cat toys and kitty kondos we buy for them.
 
It's true that some outdoor cats have a shorter life expectancy, but
this mostly depends on where they live. If they live in a safe area
with little or no traffic then I feel they should be allowed to be
outside. There are some cats who will never willingly settle for the
indoor life.  We live in the middle of the woods on a dead end road
with no traffic and our cats are allowed to go outside. I rarely see
them catch a bird, but they catch many mice  moles.  I feel sad to
see anything killed, but cats and dogs are predators and this is what
they were designed to do.

Lorrie


  Sorry but that information is outdated or biased. The number one 
  killer of birds is humans due to habitat loss or construction for same.
  
  Humans: The Number One Threat to Birds
  http://www.alleycat.org/NetCommunity/Page.aspx?pid=325
  
  SomeWhere Sam



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Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors

2011-03-23 Thread Jannes Taylor
I use to have indoor/outdoor cats, but now they are strickly indoor. There are 
so many dangers outside such as cars, dogs, and the chance of encountering a 
another cat with felv, for example. I do feel sorry for them sometimes, but I 
have to say I would trade places with any one of them to live the life of 
luxury 
they experinece indoors. They do long to go outside sometimes, but I open up 
the windows and let them smell the fresh air. I don't feel too guilty about it. 
LOL

Update on Amber, my felv kitty. I've had her three and a half weeks now and she 
is looking and feeling so much better! She has gained weight and still has a 
good appetite. She is so sweet. My husband is building her a kitty palace, 
which is eight feet long, four feet wide, and six feet tall. We bought a cat 
tree to put in it so she can climb and get her exercise. I have been keeping 
her 
in a much smaller cage (the only on I have) and letting her roam in the 
basement a few hours a day when I can. I so wish I could bring her upstairs 
with 
the other cats, but just don't feel I should take the risk. I am still 
struggling a little bit with putting them at risk at all, but it is what it is! 
 I still plan to have Amber retested in a couple of months. Whatever happens, I 
am still glad I have been given the opportunity to make a difference in her 
life. Jannes 






From: Natalie at...@optonline.net
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Sent: Wed, March 23, 2011 8:13:09 AM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors

As an adopter, my views on this are very strict and well-defined - I am
responsible for placing cats in the safest possible homes, and I would do no
less.  I need to be able to sleep at night, knowing that the cats that I
rescued and invested so much time, energy, and emotion will be safe and
happy for a long time.
Yes, I agree, there still are a few safe area left, but not many and none
are 100% safe, ever. It is true that times used to be safer for cats to be
outdoors - ours always had been, especially when I was growing up, until one
of our kittens was killed by a carUnfortunately, it takes many people to
understand this only after a tragedy occurs.  When an adopter tells me that
their cat ALWAYS sat on the front porch, and never leftand they intend
to do the same with a new adopted cat, I say NO!  Their old cat may have
indeed done that, but it doesn't mean that a new cat will do it: It takes
ONLY ONE TIME - chasing a squirrel or bird across the street, and WHAM!
Cats can be perfectly happy indoors with tall cat trees by a window, a
window perch, the right kind of toys to keep them interested and active.
More and more people construct outdoor enclosures; simple ones to really
elaborate ones, even just a little window screened porch. I don't believe
that cats need to hunt; if they are homeless and hungry, yes, but there's no
need for a well-fed cat to kill small wildlife, not for food, but for fun
and the reflex of chasing something (could be a toy).  

-Original Message-
From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
[mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lorrie
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 7:56 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors

This is a hot topic, but I agree humans and loss of habitat
are the main threat to birds. 

As for keeping cats inside.  I've had cats all my life and they
have always been indoor/outdoor cats.  All of them have lived to
16 to 17 years of age unless they've had some genetic problem like
heart disease.  My cats were all rescues and they lived outside
before I had them, and they are totally miserable inside. 

It's really only the last couple decades that cats have been living
indoors, but the invention of cat litter and urban sprawl have made
us think all cats have the perfect life indoors, when in reality,
cats are happier if they can live outdoors. They are programmed to
hunt small animalswhich is the best nutrition for them. They need
to climb trees, stalk at night with their night vision, and be free.
Cats were not made for sitting in a window sill, and a prison is a
prison no matter how many cat toys and kitty kondos we buy for them.

It's true that some outdoor cats have a shorter life expectancy, but
this mostly depends on where they live. If they live in a safe area
with little or no traffic then I feel they should be allowed to be
outside. There are some cats who will never willingly settle for the
indoor life.  We live in the middle of the woods on a dead end road
with no traffic and our cats are allowed to go outside. I rarely see
them catch a bird, but they catch many mice  moles.  I feel sad to
see anything killed, but cats and dogs are predators and this is what
they were designed to do.

Lorrie


  Sorry but that information is outdated or biased. The number one 
  killer of birds is humans due to habitat loss or construction for same.
  
  Humans: The Number One

Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors

2011-03-23 Thread Edna Taylor

Just because your kid likes to eat McDonald's every day or binge drink or do 
drugs because it makes them happy is NOT a reason to allow it.  The same 
reasoning goes for cats, just because they LIKE it doesn't mean it's good for 
them.  My cats may be prisoners in my house but I sleep well at night knowing 
they are loved and safe and from what I can tell, they are pretty freakin 
happy.  I have picked up enough broken and battered bodies off the roadways to 
know that NONE of my cats or fosters will EVER be allowed outside unless it is 
in a safe enclosure or on a leash.  

There was a young individual (can't call him a man because real men do not 
torture animals) in Dallas that took his neighbor's inside/outside cat and over 
a course of several hours beat and tortured the cat and video taped the entire 
thing.  THAT is what happens to outdoor cats.  While some may be lucky enough 
to escape being tortured, hit by cars, eaten by coyotes or hawks or owls, most 
do not escape this fate.
 
Sorry but I 100% DISAGREE with cats are wild animals and need to live outside 
point of view.
 
Just my 2 cents.
 
Edna
 
 Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 09:13:09 -0400
 From: at...@optonline.net
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
 
 As an adopter, my views on this are very strict and well-defined - I am
 responsible for placing cats in the safest possible homes, and I would do no
 less. I need to be able to sleep at night, knowing that the cats that I
 rescued and invested so much time, energy, and emotion will be safe and
 happy for a long time.
 Yes, I agree, there still are a few safe area left, but not many and none
 are 100% safe, ever. It is true that times used to be safer for cats to be
 outdoors - ours always had been, especially when I was growing up, until one
 of our kittens was killed by a carUnfortunately, it takes many people to
 understand this only after a tragedy occurs. When an adopter tells me that
 their cat ALWAYS sat on the front porch, and never leftand they intend
 to do the same with a new adopted cat, I say NO! Their old cat may have
 indeed done that, but it doesn't mean that a new cat will do it: It takes
 ONLY ONE TIME - chasing a squirrel or bird across the street, and WHAM!
 Cats can be perfectly happy indoors with tall cat trees by a window, a
 window perch, the right kind of toys to keep them interested and active.
 More and more people construct outdoor enclosures; simple ones to really
 elaborate ones, even just a little window screened porch. I don't believe
 that cats need to hunt; if they are homeless and hungry, yes, but there's no
 need for a well-fed cat to kill small wildlife, not for food, but for fun
 and the reflex of chasing something (could be a toy). 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
 [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lorrie
 Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 7:56 AM
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
 
 This is a hot topic, but I agree humans and loss of habitat
 are the main threat to birds. 
 
 As for keeping cats inside. I've had cats all my life and they
 have always been indoor/outdoor cats. All of them have lived to
 16 to 17 years of age unless they've had some genetic problem like
 heart disease. My cats were all rescues and they lived outside
 before I had them, and they are totally miserable inside. 
 
 It's really only the last couple decades that cats have been living
 indoors, but the invention of cat litter and urban sprawl have made
 us think all cats have the perfect life indoors, when in reality,
 cats are happier if they can live outdoors. They are programmed to
 hunt small animalswhich is the best nutrition for them. They need
 to climb trees, stalk at night with their night vision, and be free.
 Cats were not made for sitting in a window sill, and a prison is a
 prison no matter how many cat toys and kitty kondos we buy for them.
 
 It's true that some outdoor cats have a shorter life expectancy, but
 this mostly depends on where they live. If they live in a safe area
 with little or no traffic then I feel they should be allowed to be
 outside. There are some cats who will never willingly settle for the
 indoor life. We live in the middle of the woods on a dead end road
 with no traffic and our cats are allowed to go outside. I rarely see
 them catch a bird, but they catch many mice  moles. I feel sad to
 see anything killed, but cats and dogs are predators and this is what
 they were designed to do.
 
 Lorrie
 
 
  Sorry but that information is outdated or biased. The number one 
  killer of birds is humans due to habitat loss or construction for same.
 
   Humans: The Number One Threat to Birds
   http://www.alleycat.org/NetCommunity/Page.aspx?pid=325
   
   SomeWhere Sam
 
 
 
 ___
 Felvtalk mailing list
 Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 http

Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors

2011-03-23 Thread Natalie
You are 100% correct in saying:  Sorry but I 100% DISAGREE with cats are
wild animals and need to live outside point of view.   
Cats were indeed wild at one time; but since they have been domesticated for
a few thousand years and allowed to over breed, causing many to revert to
being feral, we are obligated to do as much as we can (and I can see that
100% of people in this group are doing so) to rectify all the misdoings of
mankind.

-Original Message-
From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
[mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Edna Taylor
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 11:40 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors


Just because your kid likes to eat McDonald's every day or binge drink or do
drugs because it makes them happy is NOT a reason to allow it.  The same
reasoning goes for cats, just because they LIKE it doesn't mean it's good
for them.  My cats may be prisoners in my house but I sleep well at night
knowing they are loved and safe and from what I can tell, they are pretty
freakin happy.  I have picked up enough broken and battered bodies off the
roadways to know that NONE of my cats or fosters will EVER be allowed
outside unless it is in a safe enclosure or on a leash.  

There was a young individual (can't call him a man because real men do not
torture animals) in Dallas that took his neighbor's inside/outside cat and
over a course of several hours beat and tortured the cat and video taped the
entire thing.  THAT is what happens to outdoor cats.  While some may be
lucky enough to escape being tortured, hit by cars, eaten by coyotes or
hawks or owls, most do not escape this fate.
 
Sorry but I 100% DISAGREE with cats are wild animals and need to live
outside point of view.
 
Just my 2 cents.
 
Edna
 
 Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 09:13:09 -0400
 From: at...@optonline.net
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
 
 As an adopter, my views on this are very strict and well-defined - I am
 responsible for placing cats in the safest possible homes, and I would do
no
 less. I need to be able to sleep at night, knowing that the cats that I
 rescued and invested so much time, energy, and emotion will be safe and
 happy for a long time.
 Yes, I agree, there still are a few safe area left, but not many and none
 are 100% safe, ever. It is true that times used to be safer for cats to be
 outdoors - ours always had been, especially when I was growing up, until
one
 of our kittens was killed by a carUnfortunately, it takes many people
to
 understand this only after a tragedy occurs. When an adopter tells me that
 their cat ALWAYS sat on the front porch, and never leftand they intend
 to do the same with a new adopted cat, I say NO! Their old cat may have
 indeed done that, but it doesn't mean that a new cat will do it: It takes
 ONLY ONE TIME - chasing a squirrel or bird across the street, and WHAM!
 Cats can be perfectly happy indoors with tall cat trees by a window, a
 window perch, the right kind of toys to keep them interested and active.
 More and more people construct outdoor enclosures; simple ones to really
 elaborate ones, even just a little window screened porch. I don't believe
 that cats need to hunt; if they are homeless and hungry, yes, but there's
no
 need for a well-fed cat to kill small wildlife, not for food, but for fun
 and the reflex of chasing something (could be a toy). 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
 [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lorrie
 Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 7:56 AM
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
 
 This is a hot topic, but I agree humans and loss of habitat
 are the main threat to birds. 
 
 As for keeping cats inside. I've had cats all my life and they
 have always been indoor/outdoor cats. All of them have lived to
 16 to 17 years of age unless they've had some genetic problem like
 heart disease. My cats were all rescues and they lived outside
 before I had them, and they are totally miserable inside. 
 
 It's really only the last couple decades that cats have been living
 indoors, but the invention of cat litter and urban sprawl have made
 us think all cats have the perfect life indoors, when in reality,
 cats are happier if they can live outdoors. They are programmed to
 hunt small animalswhich is the best nutrition for them. They need
 to climb trees, stalk at night with their night vision, and be free.
 Cats were not made for sitting in a window sill, and a prison is a
 prison no matter how many cat toys and kitty kondos we buy for them.
 
 It's true that some outdoor cats have a shorter life expectancy, but
 this mostly depends on where they live. If they live in a safe area
 with little or no traffic then I feel they should be allowed to be
 outside. There are some cats who will never willingly settle for the
 indoor life. We live

Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors

2011-03-23 Thread Beth
Our shelter has an indoor only policy. The cat can go out if you have it with 
you on a leash or if it is in an enclosed patio which it cannot get out of  
you are present at all times. Otherwise we will remove the cat from the home.
There are about 4 cats in my neighborhood who have been killed by irresponsible 
people letting their dogs loose. Not to mention the ones which have gotten run 
over.

Beth
Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org   

--- On Wed, 3/23/11, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote:

From: Natalie at...@optonline.net
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Date: Wednesday, March 23, 2011, 12:04 PM

You are 100% correct in saying:  Sorry but I 100% DISAGREE with cats are
wild animals and need to live outside point of view.   
Cats were indeed wild at one time; but since they have been domesticated for
a few thousand years and allowed to over breed, causing many to revert to
being feral, we are obligated to do as much as we can (and I can see that
100% of people in this group are doing so) to rectify all the misdoings of
mankind.

-Original Message-
From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
[mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Edna Taylor
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 11:40 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors


Just because your kid likes to eat McDonald's every day or binge drink or do
drugs because it makes them happy is NOT a reason to allow it.  The same
reasoning goes for cats, just because they LIKE it doesn't mean it's good
for them.  My cats may be prisoners in my house but I sleep well at night
knowing they are loved and safe and from what I can tell, they are pretty
freakin happy.  I have picked up enough broken and battered bodies off the
roadways to know that NONE of my cats or fosters will EVER be allowed
outside unless it is in a safe enclosure or on a leash.  

There was a young individual (can't call him a man because real men do not
torture animals) in Dallas that took his neighbor's inside/outside cat and
over a course of several hours beat and tortured the cat and video taped the
entire thing.  THAT is what happens to outdoor cats.  While some may be
lucky enough to escape being tortured, hit by cars, eaten by coyotes or
hawks or owls, most do not escape this fate.
 
Sorry but I 100% DISAGREE with cats are wild animals and need to live
outside point of view.
 
Just my 2 cents.
 
Edna
 
 Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 09:13:09 -0400
 From: at...@optonline.net
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
 
 As an adopter, my views on this are very strict and well-defined - I am
 responsible for placing cats in the safest possible homes, and I would do
no
 less. I need to be able to sleep at night, knowing that the cats that I
 rescued and invested so much time, energy, and emotion will be safe and
 happy for a long time.
 Yes, I agree, there still are a few safe area left, but not many and none
 are 100% safe, ever. It is true that times used to be safer for cats to be
 outdoors - ours always had been, especially when I was growing up, until
one
 of our kittens was killed by a carUnfortunately, it takes many people
to
 understand this only after a tragedy occurs. When an adopter tells me that
 their cat ALWAYS sat on the front porch, and never leftand they intend
 to do the same with a new adopted cat, I say NO! Their old cat may have
 indeed done that, but it doesn't mean that a new cat will do it: It takes
 ONLY ONE TIME - chasing a squirrel or bird across the street, and WHAM!
 Cats can be perfectly happy indoors with tall cat trees by a window, a
 window perch, the right kind of toys to keep them interested and active.
 More and more people construct outdoor enclosures; simple ones to really
 elaborate ones, even just a little window screened porch. I don't believe
 that cats need to hunt; if they are homeless and hungry, yes, but there's
no
 need for a well-fed cat to kill small wildlife, not for food, but for fun
 and the reflex of chasing something (could be a toy). 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
 [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lorrie
 Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 7:56 AM
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
 
 This is a hot topic, but I agree humans and loss of habitat
 are the main threat to birds. 
 
 As for keeping cats inside. I've had cats all my life and they
 have always been indoor/outdoor cats. All of them have lived to
 16 to 17 years of age unless they've had some genetic problem like
 heart disease. My cats were all rescues and they lived outside
 before I had them, and they are totally miserable inside. 
 
 It's really only the last couple decades that cats have been living
 indoors, but the invention of cat litter and urban sprawl have made
 us think all cats have the perfect life indoors, when

Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors

2011-03-23 Thread Christiane Biagi
This is not an easy call.  Growing up, we always had stray cats who found us
 all were indoor/outdoor.  Of course, it was way different then  my mother
always made sure they came in at night.  They all went to the vet to be s/n
 then not again until they became ill towards the end of their lives.  We
had 3 generations  all lived to their early 20's.  But we also fed whoever
showed up  some would ultimately come in and out.  One of those was
poisoned by a neighbor  another was killed by a car.  

My own cats are all indoor--I live on the 6th floor of an apt building-LOL.
All came in as strays of different ages.  Interestingly enough, the one who
never had any interest in what was going on outside (didn't sit on window,
didn't run for front door, didn't try to sneak out on balcony), was the late
great Romeo.  He was around 3 or 4 when I brought him in  he always seemed
to have the attitude been there, done that!.  

I don't know that I wouldn't let them out if I lived in a very rural area...
but I know about the predators out there so I suspect  I'd probably ruin it
for them by hovering-LOL

-Original Message-
From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
[mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Beth
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 12:12 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors

Our shelter has an indoor only policy. The cat can go out if you have it
with you on a leash or if it is in an enclosed patio which it cannot get out
of  you are present at all times. Otherwise we will remove the cat from the
home.
There are about 4 cats in my neighborhood who have been killed by
irresponsible people letting their dogs loose. Not to mention the ones which
have gotten run over.

Beth
Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org   

--- On Wed, 3/23/11, Natalie at...@optonline.net wrote:

From: Natalie at...@optonline.net
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Date: Wednesday, March 23, 2011, 12:04 PM

You are 100% correct in saying:  Sorry but I 100% DISAGREE with cats are
wild animals and need to live outside point of view. Cats were indeed wild
at one time; but since they have been domesticated for a few thousand years
and allowed to over breed, causing many to revert to being feral, we are
obligated to do as much as we can (and I can see that 100% of people in this
group are doing so) to rectify all the misdoings of mankind.

-Original Message-
From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
[mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Edna Taylor
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 11:40 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors


Just because your kid likes to eat McDonald's every day or binge drink or do
drugs because it makes them happy is NOT a reason to allow it.  The same
reasoning goes for cats, just because they LIKE it doesn't mean it's good
for them.  My cats may be prisoners in my house but I sleep well at night
knowing they are loved and safe and from what I can tell, they are pretty
freakin happy.  I have picked up enough broken and battered bodies off the
roadways to know that NONE of my cats or fosters will EVER be allowed
outside unless it is in a safe enclosure or on a leash.  

There was a young individual (can't call him a man because real men do not
torture animals) in Dallas that took his neighbor's inside/outside cat and
over a course of several hours beat and tortured the cat and video taped the
entire thing.  THAT is what happens to outdoor cats.  While some may be
lucky enough to escape being tortured, hit by cars, eaten by coyotes or
hawks or owls, most do not escape this fate.
 
Sorry but I 100% DISAGREE with cats are wild animals and need to live
outside point of view.
 
Just my 2 cents.
 
Edna
 
 Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 09:13:09 -0400
 From: at...@optonline.net
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
 
 As an adopter, my views on this are very strict and well-defined - I 
 am responsible for placing cats in the safest possible homes, and I 
 would do
no
 less. I need to be able to sleep at night, knowing that the cats that 
 I rescued and invested so much time, energy, and emotion will be safe 
 and happy for a long time.
 Yes, I agree, there still are a few safe area left, but not many and 
 none are 100% safe, ever. It is true that times used to be safer for 
 cats to be outdoors - ours always had been, especially when I was 
 growing up, until
one
 of our kittens was killed by a carUnfortunately, it takes many 
 people
to
 understand this only after a tragedy occurs. When an adopter tells me 
 that their cat ALWAYS sat on the front porch, and never leftand 
 they intend to do the same with a new adopted cat, I say NO! Their old 
 cat may have indeed done that, but it doesn't mean that a new cat will 
 do it: It takes ONLY ONE TIME - chasing a squirrel or bird across the
street, and WHAM!
 Cats can

Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors

2011-03-23 Thread POTT, BEVERLY
I guess the birds should have stayed dinosaurs, then... ;-)



From: LauraM [mailto:hingebacktorto...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tue 3/22/2011 7:56 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors



Yes, the number one cause of bird extinction is habitat loss, but cats are #2.
There's a well-known study that was conducted on a couple of adjacent beaches 
in California, one with a feral cat population and one without. The beach that 
is home to feral cats has no birds - remember that most shorebirds are ground 
nesters - while the cat-free beach supports a healthy bird population.
Of course, our birds have natural predators - some raptors such as red-tailed 
hawks prey mostly on birds. Kingsnakes and rat snakes are known for feasting on 
eggs and hatchlings. But this is natural predation  so things are kept in 
balance. Throw in a highly efficient predator such as a cat and the balance 
changes.


___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org


Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors

2011-03-23 Thread LauraM
Maureen - I am in GA also, and analysis of coyote stomach contents showed that 
something like 60% of them contained cat remains. I suspect that's why we have 
such a coyote problem, even in the suburbs - they are supplied with an 
endless number of cats as prey - somebody's cat goes missing and they just 
replace it with another one.

--- On Wed, 3/23/11, Maureen Olvey molvey...@hotmail.com wrote:


From: Maureen Olvey molvey...@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Date: Wednesday, March 23, 2011, 3:58 AM



You can also take it further and reiterate that humans are the #1 killers of 
birds because of the dummies that let their un-altered pet cats run around 
outside and breed and have kittens everywhere, not just because of the habitat 
destruction that we do.

I think where I live in GA some of the rodents are getting a reprive because 
all the coyotes who would normally eat some of the rodents are getting full on 
my feral cats.  It's so sad.  I don't hate the coyotes for doing it (just like 
I don't hate or blame cats for killing other small prey) but it breaks my heart 
everytime a feral goes missing.  

All points always come back to the main topic of the importance of keeping the 
cats indoors (and getting them fixed).  All we can do is spread the message and 
hope it makes a difference.  And it my part of the world it has made a huge 
difference.  When I was a kid, no one contemplated keeping a cat indoors it's 
whole life.  But now, more and more people are.  I can tell by the people I 
meet at our adoptions.  Things are changing - we just have a long way to go 
still.


“I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are 
profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon 
unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me 
sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain



 Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 18:23:12 -0700
 From: sin...@sbcglobal.net
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
 
 LOL Humans are a non-native, introduced and subsidized predators.G
 This is like expecting pet owners to spay or neuter their pets, interesting 
 idea, one which I would love to see, but seeing and knowing human nature is 
 not 
 going to happen in my lifetime.
 
 SomeWhere Sam
 
 
 
 
 
 From: LauraM hingebacktorto...@yahoo.com
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Sent: Tue, March 22, 2011 6:42:23 PM
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
 
 I've tried using those statistics on people who refuse to contain their cats, 
 thinking they MIGHT care about wildlife even though they clearly aren't 
 concerned with their cats' own safety. Hasn't worked. There are also people 
 out 
 there who want irresponsible owners of bird-killing cats to be held legally 
 liable, as it's a violation of federal law to kill most bird species  has 
 been 
 for decades. And in some areas cats have reduced the rodent population to 
 such 
 low numbers that migrating raptors - all federally protected - have nothing 
 to 
 eat. 
 
 Cats, as non-native, introduced and subsidized predators, have no business 
 being 
 outside.
 
 
 ___
 Felvtalk mailing list
 Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
 ___
 Felvtalk mailing list
 Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
              
___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org


Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors

2011-03-23 Thread Maureen Olvey

Yikes!  I don't like those statistics at all but I believe it.

I've been feeding ferals at my office for the last 8 years.  Several months 
back I found one dead and half eaten, then another one went missing not too 
long after that.  A week or two later I saw a coyote in the parking lot of the 
office building next to us.  I work at night a lot so I have more of an 
opportunity to see them than some people.  I stopped leaving food out for my 
cats at night.  After not seeing the coyote for a while I got back in the bad 
habit of leaving cat food out at night.  Just last week I walked outside about 
10 PM and there was the coyote at the food dish, which isn't too far away from 
my front door.  The coyote didn't scare me but then I saw my two remaining 
semi-feral cats running towards me and realized they had been close by while 
the coyote was eating.  I've stopped leaving food out and hopefully he'll move 
on.  I'm so scared for my cats at the office.  I wish that if I left a lot of 
food out for the coyote he'd stay full and leave the cats alone.  I don't think 
it works that way though.  He'll still want to chase and kill them because of 
his instinct.

I really wish pet cats could roam outside and enjoy the extra freedom.  But 
stuff like this has made me more of an advocate of keeping them indoors all the 
time, unless you have a cat fence or something.  Loose dogs have always been a 
problem killing cats but I don't remember having a coyote problem as a kid.


“I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are 
profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon 
unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me 
sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain



 Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 17:24:10 -0700
 From: hingebacktorto...@yahoo.com
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
 
 Maureen - I am in GA also, and analysis of coyote stomach contents showed 
 that something like 60% of them contained cat remains. I suspect that's why 
 we have such a coyote problem, even in the suburbs - they are supplied with 
 an endless number of cats as prey - somebody's cat goes missing and they just 
 replace it with another one.
 
 --- On Wed, 3/23/11, Maureen Olvey molvey...@hotmail.com wrote:
 
 
 From: Maureen Olvey molvey...@hotmail.com
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Date: Wednesday, March 23, 2011, 3:58 AM
 
 
 
 You can also take it further and reiterate that humans are the #1 killers of 
 birds because of the dummies that let their un-altered pet cats run around 
 outside and breed and have kittens everywhere, not just because of the 
 habitat destruction that we do.
 
 I think where I live in GA some of the rodents are getting a reprive because 
 all the coyotes who would normally eat some of the rodents are getting full 
 on my feral cats.  It's so sad.  I don't hate the coyotes for doing it (just 
 like I don't hate or blame cats for killing other small prey) but it breaks 
 my heart everytime a feral goes missing.  
 
 All points always come back to the main topic of the importance of keeping 
 the cats indoors (and getting them fixed).  All we can do is spread the 
 message and hope it makes a difference.  And it my part of the world it has 
 made a huge difference.  When I was a kid, no one contemplated keeping a cat 
 indoors it's whole life.  But now, more and more people are.  I can tell by 
 the people I meet at our adoptions.  Things are changing - we just have a 
 long way to go still.
 
 
 “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are 
 profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon 
 unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me 
 sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain
 
 
 
  Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 18:23:12 -0700
  From: sin...@sbcglobal.net
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
  Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
  
  LOL Humans are a non-native, introduced and subsidized predators.G
  This is like expecting pet owners to spay or neuter their pets, interesting 
  idea, one which I would love to see, but seeing and knowing human nature is 
  not 
  going to happen in my lifetime.
  
  SomeWhere Sam
  
  
  
  
  
  From: LauraM hingebacktorto...@yahoo.com
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
  Sent: Tue, March 22, 2011 6:42:23 PM
  Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
  
  I've tried using those statistics on people who refuse to contain their 
  cats, 
  thinking they MIGHT care about wildlife even though they clearly aren't 
  concerned with their cats' own safety. Hasn't worked. There are also people 
  out 
  there who want irresponsible owners of bird-killing cats to be held legally 
  liable, as it's a violation of federal law to kill most bird

Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors

2011-03-22 Thread Natalie
Amen to that!
Whenever the cat that we brought back from England got out by accident (not
by us), she'd be back in five minutes flat with a bird in her mouth!
In addition, about 50% of migrating birds from South America also die by the
time they get here
I love the idea of wind power, but the death of birds can be alleviated by
adding a humming device to them, I've read, but the few extra bucks are
not spent willingly on them.
Indoor cats live a lot longer than those that live strictly outside and
those that are allowed to go out.

-Original Message-
From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
[mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Bonnie Hogue
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 3:38 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
Importance: High

In the newspaper today:

House cats are the #1 predator of wild birds.  The American Bird Conservancy
estimates up to 500 million birds per year are killed by cats.  About
400,000 are killed yearly by wind turbines (less than 20% of the number
killed by cats).  So now we have another reason to keep our cats indoors --
not only for their own health and safety, but for that of our BIRD
population!
Save the cats and the birds: Keep Your Cat Indoors!
~Bonnie
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Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors

2011-03-22 Thread SomeWhere Sam
Sorry but that information is outdated or biased.  

The number one killer of birds is humans due to habitat loss or construction 
for 
same.

Humans: The Number One Threat to Birds
http://www.alleycat.org/NetCommunity/Page.aspx?pid=325

SomeWhere Sam





From: Bonnie Hogue ho...@sonic.net
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Sent: Tue, March 22, 2011 2:37:38 PM
Subject: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors

In the newspaper today:

House cats are the #1 predator of wild birds.  The American Bird Conservancy 
estimates up to 500 million birds per year are killed by cats.  About 400,000 
are killed yearly by wind turbines (less than 20% of the number killed by 
cats).  So now we have another reason to keep our cats indoors -- not only for 
their own health and safety, but for that of our BIRD population!
Save the cats and the birds: Keep Your Cat Indoors!
~Bonnie
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Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors

2011-03-22 Thread TANYA NOE
I was just going to say that Sam!

--- On Tue, 3/22/11, SomeWhere Sam sin...@sbcglobal.net wrote:

 From: SomeWhere Sam sin...@sbcglobal.net
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Date: Tuesday, March 22, 2011, 4:36 PM
 Sorry but that information is
 outdated or biased.  
 
 The number one killer of birds is humans due to habitat
 loss or construction for 
 same.
 
 Humans: The Number One Threat to Birds
 http://www.alleycat.org/NetCommunity/Page.aspx?pid=325
 
 SomeWhere Sam
 
 
 
 
 
 From: Bonnie Hogue ho...@sonic.net
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Sent: Tue, March 22, 2011 2:37:38 PM
 Subject: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
 
 In the newspaper today:
 
 House cats are the #1 predator of wild birds.  The
 American Bird Conservancy 
 estimates up to 500 million birds per year are killed by
 cats.  About 400,000 
 are killed yearly by wind turbines (less than 20% of the
 number killed by 
 cats).  So now we have another reason to keep our cats
 indoors -- not only for 
 their own health and safety, but for that of our BIRD
 population!
 Save the cats and the birds: Keep Your Cat Indoors!
 ~Bonnie
 ___
 Felvtalk mailing list
 Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
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Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors

2011-03-22 Thread Heather
Me three...

On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 4:47 PM, TANYA NOE sashacatgodd...@yahoo.comwrote:

 I was just going to say that Sam!

 --- On Tue, 3/22/11, SomeWhere Sam sin...@sbcglobal.net wrote:

  From: SomeWhere Sam sin...@sbcglobal.net
  Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
  Date: Tuesday, March 22, 2011, 4:36 PM
  Sorry but that information is
  outdated or biased.
 
  The number one killer of birds is humans due to habitat
  loss or construction for
  same.
 
  Humans: The Number One Threat to Birds
  http://www.alleycat.org/NetCommunity/Page.aspx?pid=325
 
  SomeWhere Sam
 
 
 
 
  
  From: Bonnie Hogue ho...@sonic.net
  To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
  Sent: Tue, March 22, 2011 2:37:38 PM
  Subject: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
 
  In the newspaper today:
 
  House cats are the #1 predator of wild birds.  The
  American Bird Conservancy
  estimates up to 500 million birds per year are killed by
  cats.  About 400,000
  are killed yearly by wind turbines (less than 20% of the
  number killed by
  cats).  So now we have another reason to keep our cats
  indoors -- not only for
  their own health and safety, but for that of our BIRD
  population!
  Save the cats and the birds: Keep Your Cat Indoors!
  ~Bonnie
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Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors

2011-03-22 Thread Debbie Bates

Thanks Sam!!  You rock!

Debbie 
~ When the world says, Give up, hope whispers, Try it one more time ~ 


 
 Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 13:36:23 -0700
 From: sin...@sbcglobal.net
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
 
 Sorry but that information is outdated or biased. 
 
 The number one killer of birds is humans due to habitat loss or construction 
 for 
 same.
 
 Humans: The Number One Threat to Birds
 http://www.alleycat.org/NetCommunity/Page.aspx?pid=325
 
 SomeWhere Sam
 
 
 
 
 
 From: Bonnie Hogue ho...@sonic.net
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Sent: Tue, March 22, 2011 2:37:38 PM
 Subject: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
 
 In the newspaper today:
 
 House cats are the #1 predator of wild birds. The American Bird Conservancy 
 estimates up to 500 million birds per year are killed by cats. About 400,000 
 are killed yearly by wind turbines (less than 20% of the number killed by 
 cats). So now we have another reason to keep our cats indoors -- not only for 
 their own health and safety, but for that of our BIRD population!
 Save the cats and the birds: Keep Your Cat Indoors!
 ~Bonnie
 ___
 Felvtalk mailing list
 Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
 ___
 Felvtalk mailing list
 Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
  
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Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors

2011-03-22 Thread MaiMaiPG
Plus indiscriminate use of poisons in the landscapeeverything has  
to be sooo vvverrryyy neat.

On Mar 22, 2011, at 3:47 PM, TANYA NOE wrote:


I was just going to say that Sam!

--- On Tue, 3/22/11, SomeWhere Sam sin...@sbcglobal.net wrote:


From: SomeWhere Sam sin...@sbcglobal.net
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Date: Tuesday, March 22, 2011, 4:36 PM
Sorry but that information is
outdated or biased.

The number one killer of birds is humans due to habitat
loss or construction for
same.

Humans: The Number One Threat to Birds
http://www.alleycat.org/NetCommunity/Page.aspx?pid=325

SomeWhere Sam





From: Bonnie Hogue ho...@sonic.net
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Sent: Tue, March 22, 2011 2:37:38 PM
Subject: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors

In the newspaper today:

House cats are the #1 predator of wild birds.  The
American Bird Conservancy
estimates up to 500 million birds per year are killed by
cats.  About 400,000
are killed yearly by wind turbines (less than 20% of the
number killed by
cats).  So now we have another reason to keep our cats
indoors -- not only for
their own health and safety, but for that of our BIRD
population!
Save the cats and the birds: Keep Your Cat Indoors!
~Bonnie
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felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

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Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors

2011-03-22 Thread Bonnie Hogue

Agreed, 100%...
But keeping cats indoors will have the double benefit of saving the cat from 
disaster and reducing bird kills.

~B.
- Original Message - 
From: TANYA NOE sashacatgodd...@yahoo.com

To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 1:47 PM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors



I was just going to say that Sam!

--- On Tue, 3/22/11, SomeWhere Sam sin...@sbcglobal.net wrote:


From: SomeWhere Sam sin...@sbcglobal.net
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Date: Tuesday, March 22, 2011, 4:36 PM
Sorry but that information is
outdated or biased.

The number one killer of birds is humans due to habitat
loss or construction for
same.

Humans: The Number One Threat to Birds
http://www.alleycat.org/NetCommunity/Page.aspx?pid=325

SomeWhere Sam





From: Bonnie Hogue ho...@sonic.net
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Sent: Tue, March 22, 2011 2:37:38 PM
Subject: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors

In the newspaper today:

House cats are the #1 predator of wild birds. The
American Bird Conservancy
estimates up to 500 million birds per year are killed by
cats. About 400,000
are killed yearly by wind turbines (less than 20% of the
number killed by
cats). So now we have another reason to keep our cats
indoors -- not only for
their own health and safety, but for that of our BIRD
population!
Save the cats and the birds: Keep Your Cat Indoors!
~Bonnie
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Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors

2011-03-22 Thread Christiane Biagi
Actually, the leading killers are glass windows...particularly taller 
structures .car winfshields. But cats are the only bird predators in urban 
aareas, so they of course would be the largest killer of birds. There are other 
natural predators in rural areas...including other birds like owls, hawks, etc

Sent from my Samsung Epic™ 4G

Bonnie Hogue ho...@sonic.net wrote:

In the newspaper today:

House cats are the #1 predator of wild birds.  The American Bird Conservancy 
estimates up to 500 million birds per year are killed by cats.  About 400,000 
are killed yearly by wind turbines (less than 20% of the number killed by 
cats).  So now we have another reason to keep our cats indoors -- not only for 
their own health and safety, but for that of our BIRD population!
Save the cats and the birds: Keep Your Cat Indoors!
~Bonnie
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Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors

2011-03-22 Thread Maureen Olvey

I see there are a lot of people that take care of ferals and get tired of 
hearing all the reasons they should be killed, not TNR'd.  My answer is always 
Even if they do kill a lot of birds, TNR is the way to reduce the population 
so TNR is the best way to save the birds.
 
I didn't know that about glass windows.  That's very interesting.
 
I totally advocate keeping your cats indoors though because I live in a town 
outside of Atlanta but it's a busy small town and I've lost so many ferals to 
coyotes.  Some to cars, but most to coyotes or dogs.


“I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are 
profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon 
unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me 
sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain


 
 Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 17:03:06 -0400
 From: ti...@mindspring.com
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
 
 Actually, the leading killers are glass windows...particularly taller 
 structures .car winfshields. But cats are the only bird predators in urban 
 aareas, so they of course would be the largest killer of birds. There are 
 other natural predators in rural areas...including other birds like owls, 
 hawks, etc
 
 Sent from my Samsung Epic™ 4G
 
 Bonnie Hogue ho...@sonic.net wrote:
 
 In the newspaper today:
 
 House cats are the #1 predator of wild birds. The American Bird Conservancy 
 estimates up to 500 million birds per year are killed by cats. About 400,000 
 are killed yearly by wind turbines (less than 20% of the number killed by 
 cats). So now we have another reason to keep our cats indoors -- not only 
 for their own health and safety, but for that of our BIRD population!
 Save the cats and the birds: Keep Your Cat Indoors!
 ~Bonnie
 ___
 Felvtalk mailing list
 Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
 ___
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 Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
  
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Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors

2011-03-22 Thread Edna Taylor

I was thinking the same thing
 
 Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 13:36:23 -0700
 From: sin...@sbcglobal.net
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
 
 Sorry but that information is outdated or biased. 
 
 The number one killer of birds is humans due to habitat loss or construction 
 for 
 same.
 
 Humans: The Number One Threat to Birds
 http://www.alleycat.org/NetCommunity/Page.aspx?pid=325
 
 SomeWhere Sam
 
 
 
 
 
 From: Bonnie Hogue ho...@sonic.net
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Sent: Tue, March 22, 2011 2:37:38 PM
 Subject: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
 
 In the newspaper today:
 
 House cats are the #1 predator of wild birds. The American Bird Conservancy 
 estimates up to 500 million birds per year are killed by cats. About 400,000 
 are killed yearly by wind turbines (less than 20% of the number killed by 
 cats). So now we have another reason to keep our cats indoors -- not only for 
 their own health and safety, but for that of our BIRD population!
 Save the cats and the birds: Keep Your Cat Indoors!
 ~Bonnie
 ___
 Felvtalk mailing list
 Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
 ___
 Felvtalk mailing list
 Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
  
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Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors

2011-03-22 Thread SomeWhere Sam
Well here locally about 5 years ago 50 acres filled with nesting egrets was 
bull 
dozed by a construction company, egrets were lost in huge numbers, more than 
any 
that hit windows. Construction company got a slap on the wrist.

Again my statement about the #1 Bird Killers are humans stands. Compared to 
those numbers cats are trivial.

SomeWhere Sam





From: Christiane Biagi ti...@mindspring.com
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Sent: Tue, March 22, 2011 4:03:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors

Actually, the leading killers are glass windows...particularly taller 
structures 
.car winfshields. But cats are the only bird predators in urban aareas, so 
they 
of course would be the largest killer of birds. There are other natural 
predators in rural areas...including other birds like owls, hawks, etc

Sent from my Samsung Epic™ 4G

Bonnie Hogue ho...@sonic.net wrote:

In the newspaper today:

House cats are the #1 predator of wild birds.  The American Bird Conservancy 
estimates up to 500 million birds per year are killed by cats.  About 400,000 
are killed yearly by wind turbines (less than 20% of the number killed by 
cats).  So now we have another reason to keep our cats indoors -- not only for 
their own health and safety, but for that of our BIRD population!
Save the cats and the birds: Keep Your Cat Indoors!
~Bonnie
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Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors

2011-03-22 Thread LauraM
I've tried using those statistics on people who refuse to contain their cats, 
thinking they MIGHT care about wildlife even though they clearly aren't 
concerned with their cats' own safety. Hasn't worked. There are also people out 
there who want irresponsible owners of bird-killing cats to be held legally 
liable, as it's a violation of federal law to kill most bird species  has been 
for decades.  And in some areas cats have reduced the rodent population to such 
low numbers that migrating raptors - all federally protected - have nothing to 
eat. 
Cats, as non-native, introduced and subsidized predators, have no business 
being outside.

 
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Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors

2011-03-22 Thread LauraM
Yes, the number one cause of bird extinction is habitat loss, but cats are #2.
There's a well-known study that was conducted on a couple of adjacent beaches 
in California, one with a feral cat population and one without. The beach that 
is home to feral cats has no birds - remember that most shorebirds are ground 
nesters - while the cat-free beach supports a healthy bird population. 
Of course, our birds have natural predators - some raptors such as red-tailed 
hawks prey mostly on birds. Kingsnakes and rat snakes are known for feasting on 
eggs and hatchlings. But this is natural predation  so things are kept in 
balance. Throw in a highly efficient predator such as a cat and the balance 
changes.

--- On Tue, 3/22/11, SomeWhere Sam sin...@sbcglobal.net wrote:


From: SomeWhere Sam sin...@sbcglobal.net
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Date: Tuesday, March 22, 2011, 4:36 PM


Sorry but that information is outdated or biased.  

The number one killer of birds is humans due to habitat loss or construction 
for 
same.

Humans: The Number One Threat to Birds
http://www.alleycat.org/NetCommunity/Page.aspx?pid=325

SomeWhere Sam





From: Bonnie Hogue ho...@sonic.net
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Sent: Tue, March 22, 2011 2:37:38 PM
Subject: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors

In the newspaper today:

House cats are the #1 predator of wild birds.  The American Bird Conservancy 
estimates up to 500 million birds per year are killed by cats.  About 400,000 
are killed yearly by wind turbines (less than 20% of the number killed by 
cats).  So now we have another reason to keep our cats indoors -- not only for 
their own health and safety, but for that of our BIRD population!
Save the cats and the birds: Keep Your Cat Indoors!
~Bonnie
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Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors

2011-03-22 Thread create_me_new
I have ferals  the birds seem smart enough to stay out of my yard.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-Original Message-
From: LauraM hingebacktorto...@yahoo.com
Sender: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 16:56:46 
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Reply-To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors

Yes, the number one cause of bird extinction is habitat loss, but cats are #2.
There's a well-known study that was conducted on a couple of adjacent beaches 
in California, one with a feral cat population and one without. The beach that 
is home to feral cats has no birds - remember that most shorebirds are ground 
nesters - while the cat-free beach supports a healthy bird population. 
Of course, our birds have natural predators - some raptors such as red-tailed 
hawks prey mostly on birds. Kingsnakes and rat snakes are known for feasting on 
eggs and hatchlings. But this is natural predation  so things are kept in 
balance. Throw in a highly efficient predator such as a cat and the balance 
changes.

--- On Tue, 3/22/11, SomeWhere Sam sin...@sbcglobal.net wrote:


From: SomeWhere Sam sin...@sbcglobal.net
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Date: Tuesday, March 22, 2011, 4:36 PM


Sorry but that information is outdated or biased.  

The number one killer of birds is humans due to habitat loss or construction 
for 
same.

Humans: The Number One Threat to Birds
http://www.alleycat.org/NetCommunity/Page.aspx?pid=325

SomeWhere Sam





From: Bonnie Hogue ho...@sonic.net
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Sent: Tue, March 22, 2011 2:37:38 PM
Subject: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors

In the newspaper today:

House cats are the #1 predator of wild birds.  The American Bird Conservancy 
estimates up to 500 million birds per year are killed by cats.  About 400,000 
are killed yearly by wind turbines (less than 20% of the number killed by 
cats).  So now we have another reason to keep our cats indoors -- not only for 
their own health and safety, but for that of our BIRD population!
Save the cats and the birds: Keep Your Cat Indoors!
~Bonnie
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Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors

2011-03-22 Thread MaiMaiPG
Mine too.  Those who aren't smart enough probably need to be removed  
from the genetic pool just as mice who come into a a home occupied by  
cats for 25+ years.  I don't like it but do consider it fact.

On Mar 22, 2011, at 7:16 PM, create_me_...@yahoo.com wrote:


I have ferals  the birds seem smart enough to stay out of my yard.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-Original Message-
From: LauraM hingebacktorto...@yahoo.com
Sender: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 16:56:46
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Reply-To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors

Yes, the number one cause of bird extinction is habitat loss, but  
cats are #2.
There's a well-known study that was conducted on a couple of  
adjacent beaches in California, one with a feral cat population and  
one without. The beach that is home to feral cats has no birds -  
remember that most shorebirds are ground nesters - while the cat- 
free beach supports a healthy bird population.
Of course, our birds have natural predators - some raptors such as  
red-tailed hawks prey mostly on birds. Kingsnakes and rat snakes are  
known for feasting on eggs and hatchlings. But this is natural  
predation  so things are kept in balance. Throw in a highly  
efficient predator such as a cat and the balance changes.


--- On Tue, 3/22/11, SomeWhere Sam sin...@sbcglobal.net wrote:


From: SomeWhere Sam sin...@sbcglobal.net
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Date: Tuesday, March 22, 2011, 4:36 PM


Sorry but that information is outdated or biased.

The number one killer of birds is humans due to habitat loss or  
construction for

same.

Humans: The Number One Threat to Birds
http://www.alleycat.org/NetCommunity/Page.aspx?pid=325

SomeWhere Sam





From: Bonnie Hogue ho...@sonic.net
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Sent: Tue, March 22, 2011 2:37:38 PM
Subject: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors

In the newspaper today:

House cats are the #1 predator of wild birds.  The American Bird  
Conservancy
estimates up to 500 million birds per year are killed by cats.   
About 400,000
are killed yearly by wind turbines (less than 20% of the number  
killed by
cats).  So now we have another reason to keep our cats indoors --  
not only for

their own health and safety, but for that of our BIRD population!
Save the cats and the birds: Keep Your Cat Indoors!
~Bonnie
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Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors

2011-03-22 Thread Melinda Kerr
My crazy Fuji just wants to make friends with them.  She brought us a bird that 
fell out of a nest once. She brought another one, and then let it go (alive) 
when it was time to come in.  I have caught her a few times with the hamster, 
but she has never hurt her.  I suppose she just doesn't realize that she is a 
hunter!

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 23, 2011, at 9:16 AM, create_me_...@yahoo.com wrote:

 I have ferals  the birds seem smart enough to stay out of my yard.
 Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
 
 -Original Message-
 From: LauraM hingebacktorto...@yahoo.com
 Sender: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
 Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 16:56:46 
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Reply-To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
 
 Yes, the number one cause of bird extinction is habitat loss, but cats are #2.
 There's a well-known study that was conducted on a couple of adjacent beaches 
 in California, one with a feral cat population and one without. The beach 
 that is home to feral cats has no birds - remember that most shorebirds are 
 ground nesters - while the cat-free beach supports a healthy bird population. 
 Of course, our birds have natural predators - some raptors such as red-tailed 
 hawks prey mostly on birds. Kingsnakes and rat snakes are known for feasting 
 on eggs and hatchlings. But this is natural predation  so things are kept in 
 balance. Throw in a highly efficient predator such as a cat and the balance 
 changes.
 
 --- On Tue, 3/22/11, SomeWhere Sam sin...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
 
 
 From: SomeWhere Sam sin...@sbcglobal.net
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Date: Tuesday, March 22, 2011, 4:36 PM
 
 
 Sorry but that information is outdated or biased.  
 
 The number one killer of birds is humans due to habitat loss or construction 
 for 
 same.
 
 Humans: The Number One Threat to Birds
 http://www.alleycat.org/NetCommunity/Page.aspx?pid=325
 
 SomeWhere Sam
 
 
 
 
 
 From: Bonnie Hogue ho...@sonic.net
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Sent: Tue, March 22, 2011 2:37:38 PM
 Subject: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
 
 In the newspaper today:
 
 House cats are the #1 predator of wild birds.  The American Bird Conservancy 
 estimates up to 500 million birds per year are killed by cats.  About 400,000 
 are killed yearly by wind turbines (less than 20% of the number killed by 
 cats).  So now we have another reason to keep our cats indoors -- not only 
 for 
 their own health and safety, but for that of our BIRD population!
 Save the cats and the birds: Keep Your Cat Indoors!
 ~Bonnie
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Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors

2011-03-22 Thread Diane Rosenfeldt
All too true. In Milwaukee, once, I saw a terrified wolf on the downtown
expressway being chased down by law enforcement (I think that ended badly
for the wolf :-() And all along my former bus route between Milwaukee and
Racine you can see deer and wolves in the fields-that-used-to-be-woods that
have been displaced by road and building construction. My friend on the west
side of Milwaukee is nervous about taking her dog for a walk at night
because she's near train tracks and coyotes are common along them, now,
having followed the tracks into urban areas looking for food. It's really
nuts the way some idiots build, build, build and then have the nerve to
blame cats for bird depredation. Oh, I know that outside cats account for a
considerable number of birds, squirrels, and the like, but humans are a way
bigger threat.

That being said, I am a strong advocate of keeping cats indoors for their
well-being. 

Diane R.

-Original Message-
From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
[mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of SomeWhere Sam
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 3:36 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors

Sorry but that information is outdated or biased.  

The number one killer of birds is humans due to habitat loss or construction
for same.

Humans: The Number One Threat to Birds
http://www.alleycat.org/NetCommunity/Page.aspx?pid=325

SomeWhere Sam





From: Bonnie Hogue ho...@sonic.net
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Sent: Tue, March 22, 2011 2:37:38 PM
Subject: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors

In the newspaper today:

House cats are the #1 predator of wild birds.  The American Bird Conservancy
estimates up to 500 million birds per year are killed by cats.  About
400,000 are killed yearly by wind turbines (less than 20% of the number
killed by cats).  So now we have another reason to keep our cats indoors --
not only for their own health and safety, but for that of our BIRD
population!
Save the cats and the birds: Keep Your Cat Indoors!
~Bonnie
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Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors

2011-03-22 Thread Bonnie Hogue
Yes, humans have negatively impacted the planet in a number of ways, to be 
sure.
And in retrospect, I think my post was inappropriate.  My points were only 
(1) to further encourage folks to keep their cats indoors for (as you point 
out) their well-being; and (2) highlight the incredible number of birds 
killed by cats each year.  The numbers astounded me, which is what motivated 
the post.  I'm a big-time cat lover (just ask my four furry housemates) AND 
a big-time bird lover.  And never the twain shall meet!

~Bonnie

- Original Message - 
From: Diane Rosenfeldt drosenfe...@wi.rr.com

To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 5:39 PM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors



All too true. In Milwaukee, once, I saw a terrified wolf on the downtown
expressway being chased down by law enforcement (I think that ended badly
for the wolf :-() And all along my former bus route between Milwaukee and
Racine you can see deer and wolves in the fields-that-used-to-be-woods 
that
have been displaced by road and building construction. My friend on the 
west

side of Milwaukee is nervous about taking her dog for a walk at night
because she's near train tracks and coyotes are common along them, now,
having followed the tracks into urban areas looking for food. It's really
nuts the way some idiots build, build, build and then have the nerve to
blame cats for bird depredation. Oh, I know that outside cats account for 
a
considerable number of birds, squirrels, and the like, but humans are a 
way

bigger threat.

That being said, I am a strong advocate of keeping cats indoors for their
well-being.

Diane R.

-Original Message-
From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
[mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of SomeWhere Sam
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 3:36 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors

Sorry but that information is outdated or biased.

The number one killer of birds is humans due to habitat loss or 
construction

for same.

Humans: The Number One Threat to Birds
http://www.alleycat.org/NetCommunity/Page.aspx?pid=325

SomeWhere Sam





From: Bonnie Hogue ho...@sonic.net
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Sent: Tue, March 22, 2011 2:37:38 PM
Subject: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors

In the newspaper today:

House cats are the #1 predator of wild birds.  The American Bird 
Conservancy

estimates up to 500 million birds per year are killed by cats.  About
400,000 are killed yearly by wind turbines (less than 20% of the number
killed by cats).  So now we have another reason to keep our cats 
indoors --

not only for their own health and safety, but for that of our BIRD
population!
Save the cats and the birds: Keep Your Cat Indoors!
~Bonnie
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Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors

2011-03-22 Thread MaiMaiPG
That doesn't mean it was wrongjust that there are other things to  
consider.   My personal cats are house cats.  There are ferals and  
those who are passing by that I care abouta lot.  These guys  
have a different life style...not right or wrong but different.  I  
wish all cats could have a home.  Not happening.  I wish all cats  
wanted to have inside homes...definately not happening.  Life is as it  
is.

On Mar 22, 2011, at 8:12 PM, Bonnie Hogue wrote:

Yes, humans have negatively impacted the planet in a number of ways,  
to be sure.
And in retrospect, I think my post was inappropriate.  My points  
were only (1) to further encourage folks to keep their cats indoors  
for (as you point out) their well-being; and (2) highlight the  
incredible number of birds killed by cats each year.  The numbers  
astounded me, which is what motivated the post.  I'm a big-time cat  
lover (just ask my four furry housemates) AND a big-time bird  
lover.  And never the twain shall meet!

~Bonnie

- Original Message - From: Diane Rosenfeldt drosenfe...@wi.rr.com 


To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 5:39 PM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors


All too true. In Milwaukee, once, I saw a terrified wolf on the  
downtown
expressway being chased down by law enforcement (I think that ended  
badly
for the wolf :-() And all along my former bus route between  
Milwaukee and
Racine you can see deer and wolves in the fields-that-used-to-be- 
woods that
have been displaced by road and building construction. My friend on  
the west

side of Milwaukee is nervous about taking her dog for a walk at night
because she's near train tracks and coyotes are common along them,  
now,
having followed the tracks into urban areas looking for food. It's  
really
nuts the way some idiots build, build, build and then have the  
nerve to
blame cats for bird depredation. Oh, I know that outside cats  
account for a
considerable number of birds, squirrels, and the like, but humans  
are a way

bigger threat.

That being said, I am a strong advocate of keeping cats indoors for  
their

well-being.

Diane R.

-Original Message-
From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
[mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of SomeWhere  
Sam

Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 3:36 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors

Sorry but that information is outdated or biased.

The number one killer of birds is humans due to habitat loss or  
construction

for same.

Humans: The Number One Threat to Birds
http://www.alleycat.org/NetCommunity/Page.aspx?pid=325

SomeWhere Sam





From: Bonnie Hogue ho...@sonic.net
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Sent: Tue, March 22, 2011 2:37:38 PM
Subject: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors

In the newspaper today:

House cats are the #1 predator of wild birds.  The American Bird  
Conservancy

estimates up to 500 million birds per year are killed by cats.  About
400,000 are killed yearly by wind turbines (less than 20% of the  
number
killed by cats).  So now we have another reason to keep our cats  
indoors --

not only for their own health and safety, but for that of our BIRD
population!
Save the cats and the birds: Keep Your Cat Indoors!
~Bonnie
___
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felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

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Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors

2011-03-22 Thread SomeWhere Sam
LOL Humans are a non-native, introduced and subsidized predators.G
This is like expecting pet owners to spay or neuter their pets, interesting 
idea, one which I would love to see, but seeing and knowing human nature is not 
going to happen in my lifetime.

SomeWhere Sam





From: LauraM hingebacktorto...@yahoo.com
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Sent: Tue, March 22, 2011 6:42:23 PM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors

I've tried using those statistics on people who refuse to contain their cats, 
thinking they MIGHT care about wildlife even though they clearly aren't 
concerned with their cats' own safety. Hasn't worked. There are also people out 
there who want irresponsible owners of bird-killing cats to be held legally 
liable, as it's a violation of federal law to kill most bird species  has been 
for decades.  And in some areas cats have reduced the rodent population to such 
low numbers that migrating raptors - all federally protected - have nothing to 
eat. 

Cats, as non-native, introduced and subsidized predators, have no business 
being 
outside.

 
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Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors

2011-03-22 Thread Sally Davis
It is true... Loss of habitat is number one.

Thanks for bringing it up.

Sally

On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 4:36 PM, SomeWhere Sam sin...@sbcglobal.net wrote:

 Sorry but that information is outdated or biased.

 The number one killer of birds is humans due to habitat loss or
 construction for
 same.

 Humans: The Number One Threat to Birds
 http://www.alleycat.org/NetCommunity/Page.aspx?pid=325

 SomeWhere Sam




 
 From: Bonnie Hogue ho...@sonic.net
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Sent: Tue, March 22, 2011 2:37:38 PM
 Subject: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors

  In the newspaper today:

 House cats are the #1 predator of wild birds.  The American Bird
 Conservancy
 estimates up to 500 million birds per year are killed by cats.  About
 400,000
 are killed yearly by wind turbines (less than 20% of the number killed by
 cats).  So now we have another reason to keep our cats indoors -- not only
 for
 their own health and safety, but for that of our BIRD population!
 Save the cats and the birds: Keep Your Cat Indoors!
 ~Bonnie
 ___
 Felvtalk mailing list
 Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
 ___
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Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors

2011-03-22 Thread Natalie
My rationale in telling adopters is:  Cats that are kept indoors cost cat
owners a lot less money spent at the vet than those that go outdoors - it
has actually been proven.  Cats that go out are in danger of contracting
diseases from other cats, getting injuries from fights with other cats
(abscesses from bites, etc), worms from eating wildlife, fleas (tapeworm),
attacked by wildlife and roaming dogs, cars, and nasty people!
Statistically, cats that live only outdoors, rarely make it past 3 yrs old;
cats that live inside and go outside a lot, average 5-6 years, and cats that
are kept strictly indoors, can live a very long time...yes, there are
exceptions to each category, depending on luck and genes.

-Original Message-
From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
[mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Melinda Kerr
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 8:26 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors

My crazy Fuji just wants to make friends with them.  She brought us a bird
that fell out of a nest once. She brought another one, and then let it go
(alive) when it was time to come in.  I have caught her a few times with the
hamster, but she has never hurt her.  I suppose she just doesn't realize
that she is a hunter!

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 23, 2011, at 9:16 AM, create_me_...@yahoo.com wrote:

 I have ferals  the birds seem smart enough to stay out of my yard.
 Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
 
 -Original Message-
 From: LauraM hingebacktorto...@yahoo.com
 Sender: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
 Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 16:56:46 
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Reply-To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
 
 Yes, the number one cause of bird extinction is habitat loss, but cats are
#2.
 There's a well-known study that was conducted on a couple of adjacent
beaches in California, one with a feral cat population and one without. The
beach that is home to feral cats has no birds - remember that most
shorebirds are ground nesters - while the cat-free beach supports a healthy
bird population. 
 Of course, our birds have natural predators - some raptors such as
red-tailed hawks prey mostly on birds. Kingsnakes and rat snakes are known
for feasting on eggs and hatchlings. But this is natural predation  so
things are kept in balance. Throw in a highly efficient predator such as a
cat and the balance changes.
 
 --- On Tue, 3/22/11, SomeWhere Sam sin...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
 
 
 From: SomeWhere Sam sin...@sbcglobal.net
 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Date: Tuesday, March 22, 2011, 4:36 PM
 
 
 Sorry but that information is outdated or biased.  
 
 The number one killer of birds is humans due to habitat loss or
construction for 
 same.
 
 Humans: The Number One Threat to Birds
 http://www.alleycat.org/NetCommunity/Page.aspx?pid=325
 
 SomeWhere Sam
 
 
 
 
 
 From: Bonnie Hogue ho...@sonic.net
 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
 Sent: Tue, March 22, 2011 2:37:38 PM
 Subject: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors
 
 In the newspaper today:
 
 House cats are the #1 predator of wild birds.  The American Bird
Conservancy 
 estimates up to 500 million birds per year are killed by cats.  About
400,000 
 are killed yearly by wind turbines (less than 20% of the number killed by 
 cats).  So now we have another reason to keep our cats indoors -- not only
for 
 their own health and safety, but for that of our BIRD population!
 Save the cats and the birds: Keep Your Cat Indoors!
 ~Bonnie
 ___
 Felvtalk mailing list
 Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
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Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors

2011-03-22 Thread Natalie
With coyotes, all you have to do is wave your arms a lot and yell..

-Original Message-
From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
[mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Diane Rosenfeldt
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 8:39 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors

All too true. In Milwaukee, once, I saw a terrified wolf on the downtown
expressway being chased down by law enforcement (I think that ended badly
for the wolf :-() And all along my former bus route between Milwaukee and
Racine you can see deer and wolves in the fields-that-used-to-be-woods that
have been displaced by road and building construction. My friend on the west
side of Milwaukee is nervous about taking her dog for a walk at night
because she's near train tracks and coyotes are common along them, now,
having followed the tracks into urban areas looking for food. It's really
nuts the way some idiots build, build, build and then have the nerve to
blame cats for bird depredation. Oh, I know that outside cats account for a
considerable number of birds, squirrels, and the like, but humans are a way
bigger threat.

That being said, I am a strong advocate of keeping cats indoors for their
well-being. 

Diane R.

-Original Message-
From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
[mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of SomeWhere Sam
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 3:36 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors

Sorry but that information is outdated or biased.  

The number one killer of birds is humans due to habitat loss or construction
for same.

Humans: The Number One Threat to Birds
http://www.alleycat.org/NetCommunity/Page.aspx?pid=325

SomeWhere Sam





From: Bonnie Hogue ho...@sonic.net
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Sent: Tue, March 22, 2011 2:37:38 PM
Subject: [Felvtalk] Keep Cats Indoors

In the newspaper today:

House cats are the #1 predator of wild birds.  The American Bird Conservancy
estimates up to 500 million birds per year are killed by cats.  About
400,000 are killed yearly by wind turbines (less than 20% of the number
killed by cats).  So now we have another reason to keep our cats indoors --
not only for their own health and safety, but for that of our BIRD
population!
Save the cats and the birds: Keep Your Cat Indoors!
~Bonnie
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