Re: [Fis] Is information physical? A logical analysis

2018-05-31 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Mark -- What Shannon referred to as 'entropy' was 'variety'. 'Information' per se was achieved by way of a reduction or winnowing of this variety of possibilities, leaving 'information' to survive. STAN On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 10:24 PM, Burgin, Mark wrote: > Dear Loet, > Only one remark. There

Re: [Fis] Fw: The 'Shirasawa phenomenon' or the 'Shirasawa effect"

2018-04-29 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Sung -- regarding: The reason epigenetics (defined here as the process of inheritance without imlplicating any changes in the nucleotide sequences of DNA) was not mentioned in my previous post is because I was mainly interested in the bottom-up (from micro to macro) mechanism of genetics, not

Re: [Fis] Music : Noise = Meaning : Data

2018-03-23 Thread Stanley N Salthe
, Mar 22, 2018 at 11:41 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote: > > Dear Stan, > > > On 20 Mar 2018, at 20:22, Stanley N Salthe <ssal...@binghamton.edu> wrote: > > Bruno -- In this context I like to point out the constraints on our > abilities of

Re: [Fis] Meta-observer?

2018-03-03 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Loet wrote: At the level of observers, indeed, a hierarchy may be involved for the change of focus (although this is empirical and not necessarily the case). The communication, however, as a system different from the communicators may contain mechanisms such as "translation" which make it

Re: [Fis] A Paradox

2018-02-26 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Following upon Søren: Meaning is derived for a system by way of Interpretation. The transmitted information has no meaning without interpretation. STAN On Mon, Feb 26, 2018 at 6:26 AM, Søren Brier wrote: > Dear Xueshan > > > > The solution to the paradox is to go to a

Re: [Fis] The unification of the theories of information based on the cateogry theory

2018-02-10 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Xueshan -- I think one can condense some of your insights hierarchically, as: In a system having language, information seemingly may be obtained in other ways as well. It would be a conceptually broader category. Thus (using the compositional hierarchy): [information [language [signal]]]

Re: [Fis] New Year Lecture

2018-01-05 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Torday's work generally boils down to a concern for PREADAPTATION in organic evolution. This is a material necessity. Preadaptation has been ignored by the neoDarwinian evolutionary biologists, who have viewed their task to concern the dynamics of natural selection (even in simple models). So

Re: [Fis] I do not understand some strange claims

2017-11-17 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Jesse, Arturo -- Science is necessarily culture-laden in being motivated and supported by the interests of the culture affording it. The observer cannot escape itself nor its position in the world of possibility. The information sought by scientific means is already implicit in the initiation of

Re: [Fis] some notes

2017-11-13 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Pedro -- Regarding: could we say that the life cycle itself establishes the eigenvectors of communication? It is intriguing that maintenance, persistence, self-propagation are the essential motives of communication for whatever life entities (from bacteria to ourselves). With the complexity

[Fis] agency

2017-10-24 Thread Stanley N Salthe
10:20 AM (0 minutes ago) to Mark Mark - In a physical field where many masses are interacting by way of vectors, agency appears only if a particular individual mass is discerned by way of discourse. A fox picks out one chicken for dinner, the rest scatter anonymously. STAN

Re: [Fis] TR: What is ³Agent²?

2017-10-22 Thread Stanley N Salthe
the agentive properties of > such artifacts are then implicitly parasitic on imposed teleology provided > by some extrinsic agency. This is of course implicit also in the concepts > of 'signal' and 'noise' which are central to most information concepts. > These are not intrinsic propertie

Re: [Fis] What is “Agent”?

2017-10-19 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Here is an interesting recent treatment of autonomy. Alvaro Moreno and Matteo Mossio: Biological Autonomy: A Philosophical and Theoretical Enquiry (History, Philosophy and Theory of the Life Sciences 12); Springer, Dordrecht, 2015, xxxiv + 221 pp., $129 hbk, ISBN 978-94-017-9836-5 STAN On

Re: [Fis] Heretic

2017-10-05 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Bob -- Your classification of information-related concepts: • Data are the pure and simple facts without any particular structure or organization, the basic atoms of information, • Information is structured data, which adds meaning to the data and gives it context and significance, • Knowledge

[Fis] reply to Pedro

2017-09-20 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Pedro wrote: >Putting it differently, the hierarchies between scientific disciplines were fashionable particularly in the reductionism times; but now fortunately those decades (70s, 80s) are far away. Actually, the new views taking shape are not far from the term "knowledge recombination" that

[Fis] Pedro's 10 Theses

2017-09-16 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Here I indicate my understanding of Pedro's statements on information STAN 10 PRINCIPLES OF INFORMATION SCIENCE 1. Information is information, neither matter nor energy. S: I have information as a perceptible result of interaction, which may be embodied in matter and/or energy

[Fis] Fwd: Mazur/HuffPost: A Chat with Information Scientist Pedro Marijuán

2016-08-07 Thread Stanley N Salthe
-- Forwarded message -- From: Suzan Mazur Date: Sun, Aug 7, 2016 at 8:32 AM Subject: Mazur/HuffPost: A Chat with Information Scientist Pedro Marijuán To: szn...@aol.com My interview with Pedro Marijuán, FYI. -- *Suzan*

Re: [Fis] _ Reply to Annette (A Priori Modeling)

2016-06-22 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Entropy Regarding: > So I see it that you confirm to Shannon´s interpretation of entropy as actually being information < Well, in essence we may agree, but I would call this an unfortunate choice of words. “Information," I think, has come to mean so many things to so many people that it is

Re: [Fis] Fw: "Mechanical Information" in DNA

2016-06-09 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Regarding your last posting, I agree, and would formulate the following subsumption hierarchy: (thermodynamic energy flows {Shannon information theory {Peircean semiotics}}} STAN On Thu, Jun 9, 2016 at 10:31 AM, Mark Johnson wrote: > Dear all, > > Is this a question

Re: [Fis] Fw: Clarifying Posting. Speculative Realism

2016-05-08 Thread Stanley N Salthe
s the possibility of a ground of existence > which includes incoherence and contradiction. > > All for now, for various reasons, > > Best wishes, > > Joseph > > > - Original Message - From: "Robert E. Ulanowicz" <u...@umces.edu> > To:

Re: [Fis] Fwd: Vol 25, #32, Nature of Self

2016-04-30 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Lou, Alex -- Here is another use of set theoretical brackets (the subsumption hierarchy in evolution): { ? -> {physical world -> {material world -> {biological world -> {social world } STAN On Sat, Apr 30, 2016 at 2:14 AM, Louis H Kauffman wrote: > On Pedro’s

Re: [Fis] Fis 25 / 9

2016-04-06 Thread Stanley N Salthe
RE: The organization of bodies of knowledge in the sciences takes place at another level than the integration of cognition in the body of an individual. One cannot reduce the one level to the other, in my opinion. Which research program of these two has priority? How do they relate ?

[Fis] _ Re: _ Re: _ DISCUSSION SESSION: INFOBIOSEMIOTICS

2016-04-03 Thread Stanley N Salthe
All -- There is the World, and there is Nature, our model of the world. Nature is based in (usually one kind of) logic, even though there is scant evidence that the world operates only or mostly logically. The evidence that there is is found in successful applications of engineering and

[Fis] _ Re: On mathematical theories and models in biology

2016-03-29 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Plamen wrote: I begin to believe that the transition from abiotic to biotic structures, incl. Maturana-Varela.-Uribe’s autopoiesis may, really have some underlying matrix/”skeleton”/”programme” which has nothing in common with the nature of DNA, and that DNA and RNA as we know them today may

[Fis] _ Biology

2016-03-19 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Pedro -- You are right to look dubiously at the achievement of neoDarwinism as the sole theory of biology. What is missing (and it was realized already in the 1950’s with Schmalgausen and Waddington) is development. All dissipative structures develop -- immaturity followed by a short maturity

Re: [Fis] Origin?

2016-02-22 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Marcus -- You have an interesting point regarding plants and phenomenology. Their behavior occurs over a time scale where we phenomenologists see nothing happening. This slow time scale was illuminated by non-phenomenological science studies, while also inquiring into faster-than-phenomenological

[Fis] _ Re: Fw: Five Momenta. Five Itineraries

2016-02-05 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Bruno, Joseph -- The unity of the sciences comes from the fact that one understands sociality by way of biology, and one understands biology by way of chemistry, and then one understands chemistry by way of physics. Thus, the subsumptive hierarchy: {physics {chemistry {biology {sociality

Re: [Fis] Sustainability through multilevel research: The Lifel, Deep Society Build-A-Thon - 1

2015-12-18 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Nikhil -- Leaving aside details of hierarchical structure, I point out, concerning economics: It seems that you have in mind a global economic system in your planning. Is that so? I think that the current global capitalist system would need to be eschewed. Then, this also would seem to involve

Re: [Fis] Sustainability through multilevel research: The Lifel, Deep Society Build-A-Thon - 1

2015-12-12 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Loet -- A metabiolgy does not imply that there would not be more-than-biological properties and processes going on. We would not bother to identify a higher level unless it had some of its own emergent properties. STAN On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 5:35 AM, Loet Leydesdorff

Re: [Fis] Locality & Five Momenta . . .

2015-10-30 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Marcus wrote: – I find myself thinking Five Momenta must represent five types of localities. I ask if that “smells right” to you. If so, I would think that “localizing hierarchies” would also be needed. For example, I see: 1) passive descriptions of Nature (aka natural philosophy, general

[Fis] hierarchy

2015-10-21 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Pedro wrote: I see but five different and interrelated "momenta" that should be aligned for the hypothetical advancement of the common info field. The first one corresponds to philosophy, as the critical playground where dissatisfaction with the existing views should conduce to attempting more

[Fis] life cycles

2015-10-05 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Pedro wrote: Unfortunately, the neglect of the life cycle is almost universal. Neither neuroscientists nor psychologists nor social scientists are sufficiently aware of this invisible "water" that permeates all living stuff. Echoing some old evolutionary statement, everything should made sense

Re: [Fis] [Fwd: Re: Information is a linguistic description of structures]--T...

2015-10-01 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Loet wrote: I suggest to distinguish between three levels (following Weaver): A. (Shannon-type) information processing ; B. meaning sharing using languages; C. translations among coded communications. So, here we have a subsumptive hierarchy" {reduction of possibilities {interpretation

Re: [Fis] Information and Locality Introduction

2015-09-11 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Pedro wrote" >Most attempts to enlarge informational thought and to extend it to life, economies, societies, etc. continue to be but a reformulation of the former ideas with little added value. S: Well, I have generalized the Shannon concept of information carrying capacity under 'variety'...

Re: [Fis] Fw: It-from-Bit and information interpretation of QM

2015-06-30 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Terry, list -- Terry wrote: We should not expect such a quip to be a sufficient explanation of information in all its complexity. It is merely a useful mnemonic (coined also by MacKay as a distinction that makes a difference) that captures both Shannon's logic and Bateson's cybernetic

Re: [Fis] Philosophy, Computing, and Information - apologies!

2015-06-15 Thread Stanley N Salthe
://scholar.google.com/citations?user=ych9gNYJhl=en *From:* Fis [mailto:fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es] *On Behalf Of *Stanley N Salthe *Sent:* Sunday, June 14, 2015 3:14 PM *To:* fis *Subject:* Re: [Fis] Philosophy, Computing, and Information - apologies! Krassimir -- Thanks. Now I see what your

Re: [Fis] Philosophy, Computing, and Information - apologies!

2015-06-12 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Pedro -- Your list: physical, biological, social, and Informational is implicitly a hierarchy -- in fact, a subsumptive hierarchy, with the physical subsuming the biological and the biological subsuming the social. But where should information appear? Following Wheeler, we should have:

Re: [Fis] THE FOURTH GREAT DOMAIN OF SCIENCE: INFORMATIONAL? - What is a discipline?

2015-05-23 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Bob-- As one who has strayed from the Darwinian discipline of evolutionary biology (my erstwhile field), I can say that I have 'paid the price'. But I have had a wonderful time exploring wherever my thinking has gone. I think the discipline has in a sense guided me anyway, as turning away from it

[Fis] Intelligence Science

2015-03-02 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Stanley N Salthe wrote: Pedro -- Here are my reactions : Intelligence Science is a new science. It is the scientific spirit applied to thought and mental processes and phenomena; it is an emergent multidisciplinary direction of research. At the same time, it represents a long-standing

[Fis] Fwd: Beginnings and ends---Steps to a theory of reference significance

2015-01-19 Thread Stanley N Salthe
-- Forwarded message -- From: Pedro C. Marijuan pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es Date: Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 11:02 AM Subject: Re: [Fis] Beginnings and ends---Steps to a theory of reference significance To: Stanley N Salthe ssal...@binghamton.edu Good comment! But not only to me, it has

Re: [Fis] MEPP

2015-01-10 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Terry -- Replying T: Stan: Abiotic dissipative structures will degrade their gradients as fast as possible given the bearing constraints. They are unconditional maximizers. Life that has survived has been able to apply conditions upon its entropy production, but that does not mean that it has

[Fis] MEPP

2015-01-09 Thread Stanley N Salthe
TD: Autogenesis is also not a Maximum Entropy Production process because it halts dissipation before its essential self-preserving constraints are degraded and therefore does not exhaust the gradient(s) on which its persistence depends. S: Abiotic dissipative structures will degrade their

Re: [Fis] Physical Informatics… (J.Brenner)

2014-10-20 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Bob -- I think the viewpoint on information being expressed by Gerhard is that which sees information to be embodied in configuration/conformation. If a configured entity is in the world it necessarily will encounter other configurations/conformations which will result in an 'interpretation' by

Re: [Fis] Fw: Krassimir's Information Quadruple and GIT. Quintuples?

2014-08-25 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Bob wrote: Recall that some thermodynamic variables, especially work functions like Helmholz Gibbs free energies and exergy all are tightly related to information measures. In statistical mechanical analogs, for example, the exergy becomes RT times the mutual information among the molecules S:

Re: [Fis] information.energy

2014-08-04 Thread Stanley N Salthe
, but the concept of information (its history) tends to imply interaction. STAN On Sun, Aug 3, 2014 at 11:13 PM, Robert E. Ulanowicz u...@umces.edu wrote: Stanley N Salthe ssal...@binghamton.edu 9:32 AM (0 minutes ago) to Joseph Joseph -- Commenting on: ... Is there not also a sense

[Fis] information.energy

2014-08-03 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Stanley N Salthe ssal...@binghamton.edu 9:32 AM (0 minutes ago) to Joseph Joseph -- Commenting on: We may agree that, if they are not identical, energy and information always accompany one another and may have emerged together from some as yet incompletely defined substrate. However, they may

Re: [Fis] [Fwd: closing the session] John Prpic

2014-04-28 Thread Stanley N Salthe
With hierarchy theory serving as a dressmaker's dummy, these statements: From Guy: *I think of collective intelligence as synonymous with collective information processing*. I would not test for its existence by asking if group-level action is smart or adaptive, nor do I think it is relevant to

[Fis] replies to Loet Joseph

2014-02-19 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Replying to Loet and Joseph: Loet: I am not sure that you mean this with actuality. (which seems an Aristotelian notion to me). S: I have been using 'Actuality' (and 'Reality') as proposed by: Roth G, Schwegler H (1990) Self-organization, emergent properties and the study of the world. In

Re: [Fis] Social constructivism

2014-01-08 Thread Stanley N Salthe
In my last posting for the week, I Reply to Hans -- QBism does not change any of the impressive successes of quantum mechanics. It simply says that quantum mechanics is a very complex, abstract encoding of the experiences of generations of scientists interacting with atomic systems. S: These

[Fis] QBism

2014-01-07 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Here I advance a viewpoint for Hans. There has been an ongoing critique of the very scientific viewpoint that you eschew -- namely the notion that there is an objective world out there that we might discover. This attack on science as it has been is known as social constructivism, and it is

Re: [Fis] reply to Loet

2013-11-04 Thread Stanley N Salthe
as a circular motion (bottom-up--top-down— and-back-again)? Just a thought. All the best, Gordana http://www.mrtc.mdh.se/~gdc/ From: Loet Leydesdorff l...@leydesdorff.net Date: Saturday, November 2, 2013 8:21 AM To: 'Stanley N Salthe' ssal...@binghamton.edu, 'fis' fis@listas.unizar.es

Re: [Fis] reply to Loet

2013-11-02 Thread Stanley N Salthe
As my last posting for the week ... Loet, Gordana -- Loet Leydesdorff 3:21 AM (6 hours ago) to *Инга*, me, fis S: (Nothing can go against the 'entropy law'.) A nice example for you might be communication over distances by flashing lights using the Morse code. The actual local operations

Re: [Fis] reply to Loet

2013-11-01 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Loet -- You wrote: This is the case for natural systems and engineered systems (Herbert Simon). However, above the individual the hierarchy is inverted because collectively the communication is faster than the individual can reflexively follow. S: In general, while smaller scale systems can

Re: [Fis] Praxotype

2013-10-15 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Kark, all -- I have question about this numbers -- words concept. For users of a given language much an be communicated by connotation as well as denotation. It seems to me that the matching of numbers to words would not encompass this -- would it? As well, what about synonyms with slightly

Re: [Fis] THE SOCIOTYPE: SOCIAL RELATIONSHIPS AND BEYOND

2013-10-08 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Krassimir -- you said: Social organization is a separate level of living matter hierarchy with specific “emerged” [Ashby] features. There is no direct “smooth” transition from one level of living matter to another. What is common for all levels of living matter organization are the “information

Re: [Fis] [Fwd: SV: Science, Philosophy and Information. An Alternative Relation] S.Brier

2013-02-11 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Søren -- Your science without philosophy is what we have mostly been having since the industrial revolution. In this period sciences has mostly been the handmaid of engineering and technology, following Francis Bacon's recommendation. Now that our culture has captured and partly destroyed much

[Fis] Fwd: It's (Almost) Alive! Scientists Create a Near-Living Crystal | Wired Science | Wired.com

2013-02-04 Thread Stanley N Salthe
-- Forwarded message -- From: Malcolm Dean malcolmd...@gmail.com Date: Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 11:14 PM Subject: Fwd: It's (Almost) Alive! Scientists Create a Near-Living Crystal | Wired Science | Wired.com To: Stanley N. Salthe ssal...@binghamton.edu -- Forwarded message

[Fis] dark matter

2012-12-29 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Gordana has said: Information and Energy/Matter What can we hope for from studies of information related to energy/matter (as it appears for us in space/time)? Information is a concept known for its ambiguity in both common, everyday use and in its specific technical applications throughout

Re: [Fis] The Information Flow

2012-11-13 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Bruno said -- but this does not mean that Mechanism is a good *explanation* of anything. On the contrary, I prefer to look at it as a tool, perhaps a simplifying tool, to *formulate* the problems (notably the mind-body problem), to explain it is not yet solved, even in that simplifying frame,

Re: [Fis] The Information Flow

2012-10-27 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Pedro -- The Aristotelian causal categories are conceptual tools, providing language for distinguishing aspects of a scene. Without them we are liable to miss certain aspects of nature. For example, Francis Bacon eliminated final cause from science discourse, explicitly stating that finality can

Re: [Fis] The Information Flow

2012-10-21 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Pedro -- it is of interest to me that On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 3:38 PM, PEDRO CLEMENTE MARIJUAN FERNANDEZ pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es wrote: Dear FISers, Continuing with the comments on the how versus the what, it is an important topic in mammalian (vertebrate) nervous systems. They are

Re: [Fis] FW: [Fwd: Re: Physics of computing]--Plamen S.

2012-03-17 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Concerning the meaning (or effect) of information (or constraint) in general, I have proposed that context is crucial in modulating the effect -- in all cases. Thus: it would be like the logical example: Effect = context a x Constraint ^context b STAN On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 2:18 PM,

Re: [Fis] THEORY AND SCIENCE From QTQ

2012-01-11 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Bob -- Agreed. The way I see it is that there are two orientations in science, and these depend upon personality. One is the strategy of confirmation (of a favored theory), the other is the strategy of testing (of other's theories). The gist of confirmation is to conjure, and then firm up, a

Re: [Fis] Discussion of Information Science Education

2011-12-05 Thread Stanley N Salthe
And it could feature in 'Science for Non-Majors' courses as well. STAN On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 12:44 PM, Guy A Hoelzer hoel...@unr.edu wrote: Hi All, I agree with those who are suggesting that Information Science makes sense as a widely useful way to think about different scientific

Re: [Fis] Discussion of Information Science Education

2011-12-03 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Regarding: Information Science is a perfect tool for integration of curriculum, especially in the context of Liberal Arts education. Which other concept, if not information, can be applied in all possible contexts of education? I would point out that there have been two previous disciplines that

Re: [Fis] Category Theory and Information. Back to Basics

2011-10-28 Thread Stanley N Salthe
by this math? STAN Cheers, Joseph - Original Message - *From:* Stanley N Salthe ssal...@binghamton.edu *To:* joe.bren...@bluewin.ch ; fis@listas.unizar.es *Sent:* Tuesday, October 18, 2011 11:16 PM *Subject:* Re: [Fis] Category Theory and Information. Back to Basics Joseph -- SS

[Fis] Fwd: Chemical information: a field of fuzzy contours ?

2011-09-24 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Michel -- Regarding: Now, I ask you the following: please can you provide an extremely simple example (the most simple you could imagine) of situation in which you can say: in this situation, information is ... . Chemical information is welcome, but an example from physics would be great, too.

Re: [Fis] Chemical information: a field of fuzzy contours ?

2011-09-17 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Michel -- Organic chemistry was known to be the most difficult course in Columbia University. But I got interested in it, worked very hard constantly, and I achieved an 'A'. But what you say here indicates several orders of magnitude more difficulty than what I played with in university. For

[Fis] testing

2011-09-01 Thread Stanley N Salthe
I am having problems communicating with lists, So I am trying to see if this gets through. STAN ___ fis mailing list fis@listas.unizar.es https://webmail.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis

Re: [Fis] ON INFORMATION THEORY--Mark Burgin

2011-04-10 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Replying to Gavin -- I think you make the 'error of misplaced concreteness'. Information theory -- and all theories and laws are modeling tools, not actual phenomena. So, it is also true that when an apple falls it is not being pulled by gravitation. Gravitation is our way of understanding the

[Fis] exchanges with Gordana

2011-04-02 Thread Stanley N Salthe
On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 4:12 PM, Gordana Dodig-Crnkovic gordana.dodig-crnko...@mdh.se wrote: Dear Stan, Ø The key is whether the trait involved can be modeled; on these grounds it has not yet been shown that 'qualia' can be generalized beyond the human experience, yet even a child can see,

Re: [Fis] Discussion colophon--James Hannam. Orders and Ordering Principles

2011-04-01 Thread Stanley N Salthe
It seems obvious to me that any property held by a very complex entity (e.g., human being), IF it can be modeled, then that model can be used to generalize that property ANYWHERE we wish to. On these grounds I have been busy working on 'physiosemiosis' using the triadic formulation of semiosis of

[Fis] replying to James, Jerry

2011-03-26 Thread Stanley N Salthe
As my last posting for this week: reacting to James' fine summary -- On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 7:02 AM, Pedro C. Marijuan pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es wrote: -snip- A second, smaller camp of historians of science where I have pitched my own tent want to know what caused modern science. They

[Fis] replies to Steven, Gary, and Jerry

2011-03-16 Thread Stanley N Salthe
As my first posting for this week -- Replying to Steven -- On Sun, Mar 13, 2011 at 6:27 PM, Steven Ericsson-Zenith ste...@semeiosis.org wrote: On Mar 12, 2011, at 5:52 AM, Stanley N Salthe wrote: ... On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 6:46 PM, Steven Ericsson-Zenith ste...@semeiosis.org wrote

[Fis] replies to Steven and James

2011-03-12 Thread Stanley N Salthe
As my second posting for the week: Replying to Steven and James -- On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 6:46 PM, Steven Ericsson-Zenith ste...@semeiosis.org wrote: Dear Stan, You wrote: On Mar 6, 2011, at 12:42 PM, Stanley N Salthe wrote: ... There can be no 'objective' knowledge of properties

[Fis] Reply to Jerry

2011-03-06 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Replying to Jerry (with implications for the postings of our Chinese members) -- On Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 9:43 PM, Jerry LR Chandler jerry_lr_chand...@me.com wrote: (Pedro: Please Post to FIS) James Hannam, Stan, Pedro, List: Thank you for taking the time to express your point of view. For

[Fis] replies to Gavin, Guy, Jerry

2011-02-09 Thread Stanley N Salthe
As u first for the week: On Sun, Feb 6, 2011 at 5:04 PM, Gavin Ritz garr...@xtra.co.nz wrote: Hi Stan Using my last message for the week, Reacting to the below(s): As a materialist, I see the deformations initiated by Guy's propagated waves (e.g., as sensations) as forming the basis for

Re: [Fis] On Stan's reply to Gavin

2011-01-31 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Robin -- On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 7:42 AM, Robin Faichney ro...@robinfaichney.orgwrote: Saturday, January 29, 2011, 9:39:09 PM, Stanley wrote: On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 6:41 AM, Gavin Ritz garr...@xtra.co.nz wrote: SS: Info theory presumably applies to everything and anything. GR: It was

[Fis] Replies to Gavin Jerry

2011-01-29 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Gavin -- I send this reply to you, but, since we on this list are allowed only two messages per week, I will reserve sending it to the list until later in the week. On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 6:41 AM, Gavin Ritz garr...@xtra.co.nz wrote: Hi there Stan SS: Info theory presumably applies to

Re: [Fis] Future discussions

2011-01-19 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Tagging on after Joseph -- On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 9:19 PM, joe.bren...@bluewin.ch joe.bren...@bluewin.ch wrote: Dear Pedro and All, Thank you for your note and the ambitious program. My brief comments by theme: --Theme 1: Historical Foundations of Modern Science. Sounds very

Re: [Fis] reply to Javorsky. Plea for (responsible) trialism

2011-01-06 Thread Stanley N Salthe
One of the most special properties of science -- indeed its core that differentiates it from natural philosophy -- is the practice of testing hypotheses. Leaving aside the 'human' weaknesses involved here, there is, however, the 'Duhem-Quine thesis' to be faced. In order to test an hypothesis,

Re: [Fis] Replies to Walter Loet

2010-12-20 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Replying to Loet -- On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 1:59 AM, Loet Leydesdorff l...@leydesdorff.netwrote: Replying to Loet -- Your distinction between the backward looking institutional viewpoint and the forward looking evolutionary perspective is cogent, but it plays down the fact that the

[Fis] Replies to Walter Loet

2010-12-18 Thread Stanley N Salthe
As my last for this week: Replying to Walter -- The dark matter and dark energy examples are not very strong as examples of demonstrating discoveries rather than invention! These are stand-ins, just names, for disparities between predictions and observations. They are provisionally (I hope!)

Re: [Fis] reply to Javorsky. Plea for (responsible) dualism

2010-12-09 Thread Stanley N Salthe
| University of Maryland University of Florida | Email u...@cbl.umces.edu Gainesville, FL 32611-8525 USA | Web http://www.cbl.umces.edu/~ulan -- Quoting Stanley N Salthe ssal...@binghamton.edu: *Replying

[Fis] reply to Javorsky

2010-12-03 Thread Stanley N Salthe
*Replying to Karl, who said:* one can use a stable model used by neurology and psychology to come closer to understanding how our brain works. This can help to formulate the thoughts Pedro mentioned being obscure. One pictures the brain as a quasi-meteorological model of an extended world

[Fis] replies to Walter, loet Joseph

2010-11-30 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Replying to Walter -- On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 8:41 PM, walter.riof...@terra.com.pe wrote: Dear Colleagues, It seems that a good start point is to look at the “dissipative structures world”. And we could ask if in every dissipative structure it is possible to find information and/or

[Fis] Fwd: Doctrine of Limitation

2010-11-26 Thread Stanley N Salthe
As my second posting for the week: -- Forwarded message -- From: Stanley N Salthe ssal...@binghamton.edu Date: Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 9:47 AM Subject: Re: [Fis] Doctrine of Limitation To: Pedro C. Marijuan pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es Replying to Pedro, who asked: Optimality

Re: [Fis] fis Digest, Vol 543, Issue 19 (John Collier) and footnote to fluctuon discussion (Stanley N Salthe)

2010-11-21 Thread Stanley N Salthe
discussion (Stanley N Salthe) *From: *Stanley N Salthe ssal...@binghamton.edu *Date: *November 20, 2010 9:18:18 AM EST *To: *...@listas.unizar.es *Subject: **[Fis] footnote to fluctuon discussion* Folks -- This cut is Figure 1 from Sejnowsky, T., 2006. The computational self. * Annals

[Fis] footnote to fluctuon discussion

2010-11-20 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Folks -- This cut is Figure 1 from Sejnowsky, T., 2006. The computational self. * Annals of the New York Academy of Sciences* 1001: 262-271. Note that the levels are found to be orders of magnitude different in size. No change in any single unit at any level can have an effect at the next

Re: [Fis] INTELLIGENCE INFORMATION (by Y.X.Zhong)

2010-11-13 Thread Stanley N Salthe
[mailto:fis-boun...@listas.unizar.es] *On Behalf Of *Stanley N Salthe *Sent:* den 13 november 2010 23:03 *To:* fis@listas.unizar.es *Subject:* Re: [Fis] INTELLIGENCE INFORMATION (by Y.X.Zhong) Concerning: The minimal claim would be that there is no intelligence without information. For an agent

Re: [Fis] Fwd: [Fwd: Discussion Colophon] From J.Brenner

2010-11-05 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Of *Stanley N Salthe *Sent:* Thursday, November 04, 2010 3:05 PM *To:* fis@listas.unizar.es *Subject:* [Fis] Fwd: [Fwd: Discussion Colophon] From J.Brenner -- Forwarded message -- From: *Stanley N Salthe* ssal...@binghamton.edu Date: Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 10:03 AM Subject: Re: [Fis

[Fis] Fwd: [Fwd: Discussion Colophon] From J.Brenner

2010-11-04 Thread Stanley N Salthe
-- Forwarded message -- From: Stanley N Salthe ssal...@binghamton.edu Date: Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 10:03 AM Subject: Re: [Fis] [Fwd: Discussion Colophon] From J.Brenner To: Pedro C. Marijuan pcmarijuan.i...@aragon.es A comment on Joseph's concluding statement: It seems clear to me

Re: [Fis] Tactilizing processing

2010-10-31 Thread Stanley N Salthe
the precision or definiteness of the lower scale 'messages', which are still a kind of 'mass action', but with clearer, more reliable and less muddy, 'colors'. STAN On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 5:43 PM, Robert Ulanowicz u...@umces.edu wrote: Quoting Stanley N Salthe ssal...@binghamton.edu

Re: [Fis] Tactilizing processing

2010-10-30 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Bob -- On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 3:14 PM, Robert Ulanowicz u...@umces.edu wrote Subject: Re: [Fis] Tactilizing processing To: Stanley N Salthe ssal...@binghamton.edu Cc: u...@cbl.umces.edu Quoting Stanley N Salthe ssal...@binghamton.edu: I suggested that a single small scale

Re: [Fis] Tactilizing processing

2010-10-29 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Jorge -- Then, it is hard to get away from the model where, in 'downward causation', large scale signals impact simultaneously many small scale processes, while in upward causation, small scale signals need to accumulate into some kind of ensemble message. But Conrad 'fluctuons' seem to be trying

[Fis] Stan to Loet

2010-10-21 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Loet -- On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 1:43 PM, Loet Leydesdorff l...@leydesdorff.net wrote: Dear Stan, Wasn’t it Tycho Brahe’s suscipio descipiendo, descipio suscipiendo? Nothing but uncertainty; if order emerges, selection mechanisms must have been specified. S: If uncertainty emerges,

Re: [Fis] Recapping the discussion? Joseph's Recap

2010-10-16 Thread Stanley N Salthe
-boun...@listas.unizar.es] *On Behalf Of *Stanley N Salthe *Sent:* Friday, October 15, 2010 3:35 PM *To:* fis@listas.unizar.es *Subject:* Re: [Fis] Recapping the discussion? Joseph's Recap I would like to comment upon Conrad's statement: When we look at a biological system we are looking

Re: [Fis] Recapping the discussion? Joseph's Recap

2010-10-15 Thread Stanley N Salthe
I would like to comment upon Conrad's statement: When we look at a biological system we are looking at the face of the underlying physics of the universe... The picture is not one of simple upscale percolation. The higher levels act down scale on the lower levels to redefine their fundamental

Re: [Fis] [Fwd: physics and information]-From Jacob Lee

2010-10-06 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Replying to Guy -- You are right. My favorite examples of signals moving across scales (e.g.,direct interactions) are (a) lightning, where a signal from the planet scale system directly contacts an organism at a lower scale, and (b) cancer, where a single cell can destroy a multicellular

Re: [Fis] replying to Kevin and to Joseph

2010-10-02 Thread Stanley N Salthe
in the current context? Isn’t the important thing that information often does percolate across levels? Regards, Guy On 10/1/10 1:23 PM, Stanley N. Salthe ssal...@binghamton.edu wrote: Replying to Kevin -- On Tuesday, Sep 28, 2010 at 6:29 PM, Kevin Kirby ki...@nku.edu mailto: ki...@nku.edu

[Fis] replying to Kevin and to Joseph

2010-10-01 Thread Stanley N Salthe
Replying to Kevin -- On Tuesday, Sep 28, 2010 at 6:29 PM, Kevin Kirby ki...@nku.edu wrote: -snip- On flows across scales, this itself need not be mysterious. Take a single photon hitting a rhodopsin molecule in the retina of a vertebrate then [...long chain here...] triggering a

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