Well... Code without braces may look a bit confusing, but that depends
on what somebody is used to and just what you like. An example when I
often bypass braces is setting default values for AS2 function
arguments:
function funName(arg1:Number, arg2:Object):Object
{
if(isNaN(arg1)) arg1 = 0;
Greg Ligierko wrote:
Well... Code without braces may look a bit confusing, but that depends
on what somebody is used to and just what you like. An example when I
often bypass braces is setting default values for AS2 function
arguments:
function funName(arg1:Number, arg2:Object):Object
{
On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 5:50 PM, Greg Ligierko gre...@l-d5.com wrote:
I think Beno does not see difference between local variables (google:
local variables tutorial) and class properties (google: class
properties tutorial).
You are correct. I don't fully understand classes, although I doubt
This is how I code. And is what I was seeing in my head when I made
that observation about benos code.
Your right Paul.
Without braces, it can get a little run-on-sentence ish but still
works.
I agree Greg.
It is a matter of preference. And with AS3 I believe, it is more like
without
On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 5:07 PM, Karl DeSaulniers k...@designdrumm.comwrote:
Well I know why this code was not working.
if (e.target.currentFrame == 40) TweenMax.to(mcHandInstance2, 2,
{x:200, startAt:{totalProgress:1}}).reverse();
}
Because it should read.
if
On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 10:20 AM, beno - flashmeb...@gmail.com wrote:
You are correct. I don't fully understand classes, although I doubt I'm far
from it. I will google what you have suggested. Thank you!
Didnt you say: I have many years working with python? Were you able
to do that without
On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 11:27 AM, Matt S. mattsp...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 10:20 AM, beno - flashmeb...@gmail.com wrote:
You are correct. I don't fully understand classes, although I doubt I'm
far
from it. I will google what you have suggested. Thank you!
Didnt you say:
you will never want to as2 again
ax
On 8 Dec 2009, at 22:36, Karl DeSaulniers wrote:
Greg,
I see your point.
I am more familiar with AS2, so oops.
I will be migrating soon. I promise.
Karl
On Dec 8, 2009, at 3:50 PM, Greg Ligierko wrote:
I don't think, because braces are not required
Using just a set of functions is not oop. It's rather procedural
programming. However it works, it is difficult to reuse or make
something really large scale or cooperate with other programmers
basing on procedural code. You can write procedural-AS3, but there is
not point of doing that. And you
classes used in oop are generally separate .as files (in flash) that are
templates that create custom objects which interact with each other (it is
possible to program oop as a single file using as1-style prototype chains
but these are outdated and frankly painful)
a class would consist of
if you genuinely want to learn about programming, i'd recommend getting
essential actionscript 3.0 by colin moock or Friends of Ed's Foundation
Actionscript 3.0 with Flash CS3 and Flex (Paperback). I've seen plenty of
people try to learn by reading random stuff from the web and seeing if they
can
On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 5:38 PM, Karl DeSaulniers k...@designdrumm.comwrote:
My suggetion to you bueno is to rewrite your code using the suggestions
provided by this list. Keep all variables different. If your attaching
multiple instances , use the for loop to assign their names. Trace trace
On Dec 8, 2009, at 1:58 AM, beno - wrote:
On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 5:38 PM, Karl DeSaulniers
k...@designdrumm.comwrote:
Thank you.
No problem. Any time..
Don't they, though LOL!
More often than needed. :P
I didn't ask him! He volunteered! If I had asked him, you would be
right!
:20
To: Flash Coders Listflashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com
Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] Back On Course, Still Problems
Jason's suggestion of adding a trace to see if the class is even being
activated was excellent, thank you. No, it is not being activated.
I tried to comment out the mcHandInstance2
I know we all love Beno, and we really tried hard to make it work,
that's how this list is ;)
But, it should end, shouldn't it ?
___
Flashcoders mailing list
Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com
On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 4:11 AM, Cedric Muller flashco...@benga.li wrote:
Again ??!?
Beno, you promised you would buy these books and study. And you promised to
build bricks first before trying to build a skyscraper.
I promised I would buy the books around the end of the year. I never
On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 2:50 PM, Merrill, Jason
jason.merr...@bankofamerica.com wrote:
In my twisted mind, I'm actually kinda enjoying watching this thread
self-destruct under its own weight.
Twisted mind indeed. Do unto others as you would have others do unto you.
If you treat me badly, it
On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 7:33 PM, Karl DeSaulniers k...@designdrumm.comwrote:
Beno,
New or used? Take your pick.
Hell what's your address I'll buy you one for Christmas if it means this
thread can end.
Pay it forward I always say.. :)
On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 7:14 PM, Steven Sacks flash...@stevensacks.netwrote:
Dale Carnegie wrote the manifesto on this subject in 1934. Human nature
being what it is, what he wrote then is still true today. I recommend that
you include Dale Carnegie's book when you purchase Colin Moock's
I did not say you were not honest, pardon me if you felt I was. How
would I question honesty in a Flash mailing list ???
I am not saying you are not being honest or anything, but now I am
wondering why it took you about 3 weeks to build something a normal
coder would have taken 15 minutes
Did you mean:
Best Furnature
4200 United Shopping Plaza
Christiansted, St. Croix
U.S. Virgin Islands 00820
?
and yes I was serious.
Karl
On Dec 8, 2009, at 4:07 AM, beno - wrote:
On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 7:33 PM, Karl DeSaulniers
k...@designdrumm.comwrote:
Beno,
New or used? Take your
On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 10:52 AM, beno - flashmeb...@gmail.com wrote:
I promised I would buy the books around the end of the year.
In case you're interested, Safari Books has a free 10 day trial. I
haven't tried it myself, but I hear it's good.
http://www.safaribooksonline.com/
Also, its missing a street name.
4200 (Street name)
United Shopping Plaza
Christiansted, St. Croix
U.S. Virgin Islands 00820
Amazon will not deliver to the address you supplied. I already tried.
Karl
On Dec 8, 2009, at 4:42 AM, Karl DeSaulniers wrote:
Did you mean:
Best Furnature
4200
Beno,
In the spirit of your recommendations and opinions regarding criticism, allow me
to be blunt with you in the manner you find most effective.
Considering everyone here has expressed a negative reaction to your
communication style, it's pretty fucking clear where the problem is.
Hi, Beno! I'm the list admin for Flashcoders.
The Ch'an masters weren't so subtle. They were famous for beating people
senseless with their staffs and shouting them out the door. You, and almost
everyone else, would demand from them they remove your cancerous tumor but
set down their
I don't know, I think it has more to do with humility and being
humble ... are we ?
Beno,
In the spirit of your recommendations and opinions regarding
criticism, allow me to be blunt with you in the manner you find
most effective.
Considering everyone here has expressed a negative
I smell a prank. Does anyone else wonder if Beno really exists, or is
just the product of a list regular having a little fun with easily
agitated flashers? ;)
.m
On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 4:58 AM, beno - flashmeb...@gmail.com
Twisted mind indeed. Do unto others as you would have others do unto
Might be a troll...
Matt S. wrote:
I smell a prank. Does anyone else wonder if Beno really exists, or is
just the product of a list regular having a little fun with easily
agitated flashers? ;)
.m
On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 4:58 AM, beno - flashmeb...@gmail.com
Twisted mind indeed. Do unto
Glen Pike wrote:
Might be a troll...
They live under bridges - never heard of one in the Jungle.
Matt S. wrote:
I smell a prank. Does anyone else wonder if Beno really exists, or is
just the product of a list regular having a little fun with easily
agitated flashers? ;)
.m
...@mynarcik.com
Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] Back On Course, Still Problems
On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 4:11 AM, Cedric Muller flashco...@benga.li wrote:
Again ??!?
Beno, you promised you would buy these books and study. And you promised to
build bricks first before trying to build a skyscraper.
I promised
Those are very wise words yet mean nothing coming from you because you do not
follow them.
Just sayin'.
--Original Message--
From: beno -
Sender: flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com
To: Flash Coders List
ReplyTo: Flash Coders List
Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] Back On Course, Still
We've gone from rudimentary Flash to jungle exile to treatises on human
behavior bouncing off the Illuminati on the way to betrayal and
disillusionment.
Pretty impressive work, list; someone should convert this thread into an
opera.
On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 3:35 AM, Cedric Muller
dammit - i missed the beginning of this thread - where's the archives please
classic
ax
On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 2:35 PM, Matt Gitchell m...@moonbootmedia.comwrote:
We've gone from rudimentary Flash to jungle exile to treatises on human
behavior bouncing off the Illuminati on the way to
On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 6:35 AM, Mark Winterhalder mar...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 10:52 AM, beno - flashmeb...@gmail.com wrote:
I promised I would buy the books around the end of the year.
In case you're interested, Safari Books has a free 10 day trial. I
haven't tried it
On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 6:42 AM, Karl DeSaulniers k...@designdrumm.comwrote:
Did you mean:
Best Furnature
4200 United Shopping Plaza
Christiansted, St. Croix
U.S. Virgin Islands 00820
beno
C/o Best Furniture
etc.
?
and yes I was serious.
Cool! Thank you. BTW, you should probably buy
We've gone from rudimentary Flash to jungle exile to treatises on human
behavior bouncing off the Illuminati on the way to betrayal and
disillusionment.
Pretty impressive work, list; someone should convert this thread into an
opera.
Let's go ahead and end this thread now. I prefer to do as
On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 6:49 AM, Karl DeSaulniers k...@designdrumm.comwrote:
4200 United Shopping Plaza
Christiansted, St. Croix
U.S. Virgin Islands 00820
beno
c/o Best Furniture
etc.
Addresses are strange down here in the Virgin Islands. Everything is by
estate, not street. Take my word for
On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 3:58 AM, beno - flashmeb...@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 5:38 PM, Karl DeSaulniers k...@designdrumm.comwrote:
My suggetion to you bueno is to rewrite your code using the suggestions
provided by this list. Keep all variables different. If your attaching
What is setting e in your code?
-Original Message-
From: flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com
[mailto:flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com] On Behalf Of beno -
Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 12:38 PM
To: Flash Coders List
Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] Back On Course, Still
On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 3:02 PM, Gregory Boudreaux gjboudre...@fedex.comwrote:
What is setting e in your code?
I have no idea. This is what was suggested to me on this list once upon a
time. I presume that's the problem. The idea was to make the mc run when the
code entered a certain frame, as
Maybe you should be a preacher, rather than a programmer?
The only thing you are doing with the stumbling-blocks, is dropping them on
the very toes of the people that are trying to help you.
You truly lack manners and do not understand proper etiquette/common
courtesy.
Just my 2 cents and
...@chattyfig.figleaf.com
[mailto:flashcoders-boun...@chattyfig.figleaf.com] On Behalf Of beno -
Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 1:18 PM
To: Flash Coders List
Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] Back On Course, Still Problems
On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 3:02 PM, Gregory Boudreaux
gjboudre...@fedex.comwrote:
What is setting e
beno - wrote:
On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 3:02 PM, Gregory Boudreaux gjboudre...@fedex.comwrote:
What is setting e in your code?
It the remnants of a solution using an event handler - hence the
e:Event. You can also see the remnants of code for controlling
MovieClips using enterframe (a
: [Flashcoders] Back On Course, Still Problems
On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 3:02 PM, Gregory Boudreaux
gjboudre...@fedex.comwrote:
What is setting e in your code?
I have no idea. This is what was suggested to me on this list once upon
a
time. I presume that's the problem. The idea was to make the mc
Listflashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com
Subject: RE: [Flashcoders] Back On Course, Still Problems
Without knowing what else you have going on... remove all references to
e in your current code to see if you get an error.
public function myLeftHand():void
{
var mcHandInstance2A:mcHand = new mcHand
On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 3:42 PM, Paul Andrews p...@ipauland.com wrote:
beno - wrote:
On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 3:02 PM, Gregory Boudreaux gjboudre...@fedex.com
wrote:
What is setting e in your code?
It the remnants of a solution using an event handler - hence the
e:Event. You can also
Listflashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com
Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] Back On Course, Still Problems
On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 3:34 PM, Gregory Boudreaux gjboudre...@fedex.comwrote:
Without knowing what else you have going on... remove all references to
e in your current code to see if you get an error.
Well
He does have the makings of a best-selling novel.
Beno, have you ever considered that programming is not for you? So far
you have had a ton of help on a very simple example and very little of
that assistance seems to have stuck.
What you have now is a real hotpotch of the solutions provided
Maybe you should be a preacher, rather than a programmer?
That's how I feel today. I've been preaching all day to everyone to
STOP THE OT STUFF, INCLUDING OT RESPONSES TO OTHER PEOPLE'S OT STUFF.
Not to pick on you specifically, let's just all let it drop.
Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 4:14 PM, Nathan Mynarcik nat...@mynarcik.com wrote:
The reason why it isn't tracing is because you are not telling the function
what mc to check if its current frame is at 10. I believe that is what the
e was for.
mcToCheck.addEventListener(Event.ENTER_FRAME,
Yeah sorry. That address will not work.
It says it's not valid.
Karl
Sent from losPhone
On Dec 8, 2009, at 12:14 PM, beno - flashmeb...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 6:42 AM, Karl DeSaulniers
k...@designdrumm.comwrote:
Did you mean:
Best Furnature
4200 United Shopping Plaza
I do. But amazons shipping doesn't
Karl
Sent from losPhone
On Dec 8, 2009, at 12:15 PM, beno - flashmeb...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 6:49 AM, Karl DeSaulniers
k...@designdrumm.comwrote:
4200 United Shopping Plaza
Christiansted, St. Croix
U.S. Virgin Islands 00820
beno
Well I know why this code was not working.
if (e.target.currentFrame == 40) TweenMax.to(mcHandInstance2, 2,
{x:200, startAt:{totalProgress:1}}).reverse();
}
Because it should read.
if (e.target.currentFrame == 40) { TweenMax.to(mcHandInstance2, 2,
{x:200,
I don't think, because braces are not required when the there is only
one statement ended with semicolor:
//code
if(something) doSomething(); // semicolon ends the scope here...
//code
... the second brace was ending the myLeftHand() method.
I think that that the problem with this line was
Greg,
I see your point.
I am more familiar with AS2, so oops.
I will be migrating soon. I promise.
Karl
On Dec 8, 2009, at 3:50 PM, Greg Ligierko wrote:
I don't think, because braces are not required when the there is only
one statement ended with semicolor:
//code
if(something)
Beno buy a book and start where we all started: learning on your own or
in a class.
Now go in peace.
Thanks
Paul Andrews wrote:
beno - wrote:
On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 3:02 PM, Gregory Boudreaux
gjboudre...@fedex.comwrote:
What is setting e in your code?
It the remnants of a solution
Hi
Maybe I'm missing the obvious but perhaps you are hitting a variable naming
problem. Why not try to give each variable a distinct name so that there is
less chance of confusion. For example you have 3 different variable
declarations for myHandInstance2, 2 of which are local and one is
Well gee after that intro, let me jump all over helping you. You should
know people here are volunteering their free time and that's the price
you pay when someone offers to help for free. For free. Free that is.
I saw a LOT of people here trying to help you over the past few weeks,
you had
and above all, play nice.
Well said, Jason! Let me just say that this list is the most valuable asset in
my Flash work by far, and I truly appreciate every response I get from it.
Jason happens to be more than generous in the amount of questions he responds
to and I think many others will
Beno,
First, a bit of a rant.
These people have given you so much, and they have to make progress too.
We know it's a struggle but you really must help yourself.
Please advise.
When I started I read Colin Mook's book from start to finish:
On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 1:00 PM, Mendelsohn, Michael
michael.mendels...@fmglobal.com wrote:
and above all, play nice.
Well said, Jason!
Disagree. If someone tells you, Hey, I'm going to help you. Just give me a
couple of days and I'll take a personal look at your code and walk you
through
Beno wrote:
That's abusive, period.
Ok, now I'm really motivated to help Beno when I have time.
Cordially,
Kerry Thompson
___
Flashcoders mailing list
Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com
http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
.
Nathan Mynarcik
Interactive Web Developer
nat...@mynarcik.com
254.749.2525
www.mynarcik.com
-Original Message-
From: beno - flashmeb...@gmail.com
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 13:48:54
To: Flash Coders Listflashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com
Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] Back On Course, Still Problems
Jason's suggestion of adding a trace to see if the class is even being
activated was excellent, thank you. No, it is not being activated.
I tried to comment out the mcHandInstance2 as per Mark's suggestion:
public function init():void {
hatAndFace();
eyeball1();
eyeball2();
Beno wrote:
First, a bit of a rant.
Actually, Beno does have a somewhat valid gripe. I was the one who offered
to look at the code, and I wasn't able to provide him a solution.
I did look through the code, and ran it in the debugger. I also advised him
to do the same, and explained how to do
On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 1:41 PM, John McCormack j...@easypeasy.co.uk wrote:
Beno,
First, a bit of a rant.
These people have given you so much, and they have to make progress too.
We know it's a struggle but you really must help yourself.
Please advise.
When I started I read Colin
On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 1:58 PM, Kerry Thompson al...@cyberiantiger.bizwrote:
Beno wrote:
First, a bit of a rant.
Actually, Beno does have a somewhat valid gripe. I was the one who offered
to look at the code, and I wasn't able to provide him a solution.
S**t happens ;)
beno
beno - wrote:
Disagree. If someone tells you, Hey, I'm going to help you. Just give me a
couple of days and I'll take a personal look at your code and walk you
through it. and you believe him and he strings you along and wastes 10 of
your precious days, you mean to tell me that's all good? You
If someone tells you, Hey, I'm going to help you. Just give me a
couple of days and I'll take a personal look at your code and walk you
through it. and you believe him
and you believe him - that's the root of the problem right there- you
need to realize you can't rely on free help - people will
On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 2:06 PM, Nathan Mynarcik nat...@mynarcik.com wrote:
That person didn't put you in a difficult position, you put yourself in it.
What's funny is, you are relying on others to do your work. You should never
stop just because one person said they will help. Go find the
...@mynarcik.com
254.749.2525
www.mynarcik.com
-Original Message-
From: beno - flashmeb...@gmail.com
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 14:07:20
To: Flash Coders Listflashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com
Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] Back On Course, Still Problems
Jason's suggestion of adding a trace to see
flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com
Sent: Monday, December 7, 2009 1:07:20 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] Back On Course, Still Problems
Jason's suggestion of adding a trace to see if the class is even being
activated was excellent, thank you. No, it is not being activated.
I
beno - wrote:
On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 2:06 PM, Nathan Mynarcik nat...@mynarcik.com wrote:
That person didn't put you in a difficult position, you put yourself in it.
What's funny is, you are relying on others to do your work. You should never
stop just because one person said they will help.
Beno, Jason mentions trace. This one is really essential.
You can use trace inside any part for code, it is inside methods or
directly in frame code. Add these trace lines to your code and start
playing with them:
public function Main():void
{
trace(Who I am ? I must be: + this);
On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 2:46 PM, mark.jonk...@comcast.net wrote:
Hi Beno
What I meant was to start with something like this:
public function init():void {
hatAndFace();
eyeball1();
eyeball2();
myRightHand();
mcHandInstance2 = new mcHand();
addChild(mcHandInstance2)
}
Changes tested.
On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 3:04 PM, Paul Andrews p...@ipauland.com wrote:
One part of me thinks you were foolish and arrogant to build a commitment
to a client on the basis of technology that you have little grasp of. It's
not as though it's a natural choice for anyone, despite bad circumstances.
First, a bit of a rant. A lister here offered to help me by looking directly
at my code and resolving my problem. That was 10 days ago. I was patient. I
kept in touch with him. He kept saying he'd get to it. He never did. The
result is that I am now 10 days further behind on a project I'm now
Beno,
Persuade a library to buy the books.
Without the grounding you will grow into the subject with all sorts of
misunderstanding that will bite you later.
I really didn't feel ready to code until I had fully digested Mook's book.
John
___
I have not bitten any hand, nor would I. Are you offended when people
point out to you your faults?
If so, how can you ever mature?
The greatest of the great are known by their eagerness to have their
faults *correctly* pointed out to them.
It is the foolish that hate that, you know.
Man
let me get this straight:
1. you had some talented offshore web contacts in the Ukraine 5 years ago.
2. you 'went into the jungle' and were off the grid for 5 years.
3. you get back and agree to a flash ecommerce project, not having
talked to a flash outsourcer(5 years ago an ecommerce site in
My suggetion to you bueno is to rewrite your code using the
suggestions provided by this list. Keep all variables different. If
your attaching multiple instances , use the for loop to assign their
names. Trace trace trace.
Sometimes rewriting your code line by line (while gruling it can
Bill Jones wrote:
I was gonna listen to that, but then, um, I just carried on living my
life.
Reminds me of my favorite English folk singer, Bill Jones.
Cordially,
Kerry Thompson
___
Flashcoders mailing list
Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com
Ian Hobbs wrote:
If i ever get into intolerable difficulties I ;
1. Go back to the books - grow insight.
2. Buy help or
3. Re-think the project from inside current skill-set and from
functional/expressive intention.
There's a fourth option. I recently got a long-term contract offer I
That made me snort soda up my nose. Thanks!
On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 17:07, jared stanley jared.stan...@gmail.com wrote:
let me get this straight:
1. you had some talented offshore web contacts in the Ukraine 5 years ago.
2. you 'went into the jungle' and were off the grid for 5 years.
3. you
There is nothing arrogant about pointing out people's errors, especially
when you are truly trying to help them become better people. Indeed, it is
just the opposite. It's good work :)
I have not bitten any hand, nor would I. Are you offended when people point
out to you your faults? If so,
If I were in your shoes, I would shoot myself too for being such an idiot.
I just bet you'd do
the exact same thing I'm doing if you were in my shoes...or shoot yourself
;)
BTW, any answers to my questions?
TIA,
beno
___
Flashcoders mailing list
If I were in your shoes, I would shoot myself too for being such an idiot.
OK, it's probably a good idea to end this pile-on, enjoyable as it
might be. Otherwise, I might be forced to shoot myself. And then I
will shoot all of you. And since I'm the list admin, I have all your
email addresses,
Nice.
Karl
On Dec 7, 2009, at 6:14 PM, Steven Sacks wrote:
There is nothing arrogant about pointing out people's errors,
especially
when you are truly trying to help them become better people.
Indeed, it is
just the opposite. It's good work :)
I have not bitten any hand, nor would I.
Beno,
New or used? Take your pick.
Hell what's your address I'll buy you one for Christmas if it means
this thread can end.
Pay it forward I always say.. :)
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0596526946/ref=rdr_ext_uan
Karl DeSaulniers
Design Drumm
http://designdrumm.com
89 matches
Mail list logo
