Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
Hey that Kool whatever floats your boat.. Some of my friends think I'm crazy because I like the Big Bands of yesterday, Duke Ellington and such; the point is people like to hear what they want to, when playing games with my son on the 360 we groove to rap because it get's us hype.. I like the choice in RR with win amp; I just think the whole "Blind," experience has us as people living in the past in many cases, including our Audio Games and would like to live for today not yesterday.. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 10:00 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle Hi, Like I have said before the style of music being used should relate to the game. Yes, if we are talking a game like GTA I could see wrap music in the game. However, I can think of many genres of games such as fantasy RPG games, science fiction games, etc where wrap would be totally inappropriate. Now, on a more personal level weather I have seen a wrap show or not makes no difference about my personal opinion about wrap and hip-hop. I'll freely state I can't get into it, and I simply don't like the music. I've heard enough of it at parties, college get togethers, etc to know I don't very much care for it. For me I like 70's and 80's rock groups like Pat Benatar, Bryan Adams, Guns N' Roses, Heart, Scandal, and various other artists from that era in rock history. I've been told many times by many people that I am an old fart, been told I live in a time warp, and frankly I don't care. In the immortal words of Bob Seigar, "I love that old time rock and roll." --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
Hi, Like I have said before the style of music being used should relate to the game. Yes, if we are talking a game like GTA I could see wrap music in the game. However, I can think of many genres of games such as fantasy RPG games, science fiction games, etc where wrap would be totally inappropriate. Now, on a more personal level weather I have seen a wrap show or not makes no difference about my personal opinion about wrap and hip-hop. I'll freely state I can't get into it, and I simply don't like the music. I've heard enough of it at parties, college get togethers, etc to know I don't very much care for it. For me I like 70's and 80's rock groups like Pat Benatar, Bryan Adams, Guns N' Roses, Heart, Scandal, and various other artists from that era in rock history. I've been told many times by many people that I am an old fart, been told I live in a time warp, and frankly I don't care. In the immortal words of Bob Seigar, "I love that old time rock and roll." --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
Agreed. I too, listen to some rap. actually, I listen to almost any type of music depending on my mood. However, rap would not fit for certain types of games. sure, there are games in the mainstream who use it. But it fits in with the feel of the game. music is there to create ambiance, it serves no more purpose then that. I mean, it isn't nescessary to have it to play a game. It is used to set the tone, to help create the type of atmosphere. For instance, in an rpg, you are heading into a dangerous area such as in an enemy castle or deep into a dungeon, the music would reflect the sense of parril, by sounding dark and omonous. And with that switch in music, the player is aware that something has changed, that perhaps they should be more alert to their surroundings. It is the same with music in movies. sometimes, while I don't know precisely what is going on, the music gives me some idea of the type of scene. Weather it appears that someone is trying to use stealth to sneak into a location or there is a high packed action scene or something more relaxing, happy etc. so, for me, the type of music used in a game is important to really get me into it. Kellie and my lovable Lady J. Resident Adviser, Guide Dogs for the Blind Oregon campus www.guidedogs.com - Original Message - From: "Charles Rivard" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 8:58 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle What really counts is whether the music fits the game, as in the case of an example I used in a previous post. Here's another one: Would you want to be listening to Beethoven's fifth symphony as the mood music for a fast paced first person shooter game like Aliens in the Outback? Whether you like a particular type of music or not is not the important thing. It's whether that music fits in with the main purpose of what you bought; a game. If you're buying a game for the music, buy a CD of that music and save money, providing that music can be found on a CD. I buy games in order to play those games. The music is considered a bonus. --- Shepherds are the best beasts. - Original Message - From: "CSF inc." To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 4:14 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle Hip - Hop is my music of choice, I guess if you haven't seen or felt the energy of a rap show you couldn't see what I feel; it's a culture that began in the south Bronx in the 1970's and has maintained to be the number 1 growing music category as far as Gross Sales for the last 10 years, so I guess someone is buying it Ha? As far as Star Wars music, come on, be realistic, would you have fifty cent as the musical theme? No, and that is correct; but, for games like GTA it fits because of the gangster nature of the game, but all Rap isn't gangster, ever herd of Most Def? Common sense, the roots and many more; within the culture of Rap there is sub sections like Christian Rap.. Still as time moves on so should the musical background of video games, the main stream has thousands of games with Rap on it, and so should audio; we should stay current with Popular Culture, everyone isn't from the Hills of Montana.. Not to offend but really.. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 6:17 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle Hi, When it comes to choosing game music a developer must always keep his target audience in mind. Not everyone likes the so-called "up to date" music you speak of. I know several people who absolutely hate hip-hop and I know a few people who think it is the best music on earth. I personally dislike hip-hop, I am an 80's rock fan myself, so I would not be inclined to include that sort of music in my games. One way to resolve this problem is for a developer to use music that is acceptable to just about everyone such as by using cinematic music tracks. I've got plenty of mainstream games here that use cinematic music tracks like Star Wars, Tomb Raider, Indiana Jones, Star Trek Elite Force I and Elite Force II, etc. The music is something that is there and doesn't disrupt your concentration while playing. Now, could you imagine playing something like Star Trek Elite Force and instead of the Star Trek cinematic music in the background you have some hip-hop music in the background instead. Not only would it sound completely out of place for that kind of game, but I would find it totally distracting. For me it would kill the mood, and be come a major disruption. Now, let's assume the game was about gang warfair in L.A. Then, I could see some hip-hop music in the game. Something like natural Born Killer would fit right in with the games kill or be killed game play. However,
Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
Well, MGS continues with MGS 5, but Solid Snake is out of it and they're making a new character to replace him, since at the end of MGS 4 he knew what his fait was. - Original Message - From: "Munawar Bijani" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 12:45 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle Hi Tom, I think the real issue is not the lack of plot in Tomb raider, but simply that it's been going on for so long. Take Metal Gear Solid, for instance. It got so popular people wrote official analytical papers on its story. Scratch the game play--it's just a first-person shooter. But the developers for MGS did something right: they pakced the entire plot into four games, and ended it. Harry Potter would have suffered the same fate as Tomb Raider if Rowling had dragged on the series for another ten books. Animorphs suffered that fate. What seems to happen is some developers get too cocky and don't know when to stop. When that happens, the audience goes, "oh, when will this thing end?" And then when it does, they go "finally!" and just throw the whole series out the window. Or when they do finally end it, the ending wasn't even worth the suspense. I know several series that have ended horribly--with a total lack of creativity, and it has left me disappointed in the end. Munawar A. Bijani "Knowledge is of two types: absorbed and heard. The heard knowledge is only useful if it is absorbed." - Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib, Nahj Al-Balagha mailto:munaw...@gmail.com http://www.bpcprograms.com - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 11:58 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle Hi, True. There really hasn't been any thing new that has made a big splash of late. At least nothing I would be really interested in. Last fall Edos released Tomb raider 8, but Underworld was more of a disappointment than anything else. The Tomb Raider games have been really losing sales over the passed few releases, and is nothing like what it was in the late 1990's. The graphics and sound effects are superior, but the games have lost something that made the first few games special. Well, I've heard about some technical issues with Tomb Raider Underworld and camera angles which probably didn't help the game any. shaun everiss wrote: well to tell you the truth there are not so many big shots now. in fact nothing has made the headlines of late. no big company has released anything lately that has hit the lines either my friend that is sighted says he does pick the odd bit up but its not as bussy as it was like a year or 2 back. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
What really counts is whether the music fits the game, as in the case of an example I used in a previous post. Here's another one: Would you want to be listening to Beethoven's fifth symphony as the mood music for a fast paced first person shooter game like Aliens in the Outback? Whether you like a particular type of music or not is not the important thing. It's whether that music fits in with the main purpose of what you bought; a game. If you're buying a game for the music, buy a CD of that music and save money, providing that music can be found on a CD. I buy games in order to play those games. The music is considered a bonus. --- Shepherds are the best beasts. - Original Message - From: "CSF inc." To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 4:14 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle Hip - Hop is my music of choice, I guess if you haven't seen or felt the energy of a rap show you couldn't see what I feel; it's a culture that began in the south Bronx in the 1970's and has maintained to be the number 1 growing music category as far as Gross Sales for the last 10 years, so I guess someone is buying it Ha? As far as Star Wars music, come on, be realistic, would you have fifty cent as the musical theme? No, and that is correct; but, for games like GTA it fits because of the gangster nature of the game, but all Rap isn't gangster, ever herd of Most Def? Common sense, the roots and many more; within the culture of Rap there is sub sections like Christian Rap.. Still as time moves on so should the musical background of video games, the main stream has thousands of games with Rap on it, and so should audio; we should stay current with Popular Culture, everyone isn't from the Hills of Montana.. Not to offend but really.. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 6:17 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle Hi, When it comes to choosing game music a developer must always keep his target audience in mind. Not everyone likes the so-called "up to date" music you speak of. I know several people who absolutely hate hip-hop and I know a few people who think it is the best music on earth. I personally dislike hip-hop, I am an 80's rock fan myself, so I would not be inclined to include that sort of music in my games. One way to resolve this problem is for a developer to use music that is acceptable to just about everyone such as by using cinematic music tracks. I've got plenty of mainstream games here that use cinematic music tracks like Star Wars, Tomb Raider, Indiana Jones, Star Trek Elite Force I and Elite Force II, etc. The music is something that is there and doesn't disrupt your concentration while playing. Now, could you imagine playing something like Star Trek Elite Force and instead of the Star Trek cinematic music in the background you have some hip-hop music in the background instead. Not only would it sound completely out of place for that kind of game, but I would find it totally distracting. For me it would kill the mood, and be come a major disruption. Now, let's assume the game was about gang warfair in L.A. Then, I could see some hip-hop music in the game. Something like natural Born Killer would fit right in with the games kill or be killed game play. However, that style of game is completely different from Star Trek. HTH CSF inc. wrote: Your the man, and can't wait for your football game, dude, call me personally.. As for a fighting game. I can only wish, and allot of other blind gamers I know is starving for it.. And what about up to dat music? Rock, Hip - Hop, club, dance.. Come on it's almost 2010.. Later --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can m
Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
That is the solution.. and RR is commended for that.. - Original Message - From: "Bryan Peterson" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 6:34 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle Or you could do what Che did for Rail Racer and give players the option of using their own music via WinAmp. I never did that myself because the music got too distracting and I couldn't hear ART. Actually if Angel and my plans work out we'll probably do that for a lot of our games, particularly if we develop any sports type titles. And that's not entirely out of the question despite my not being a sports fan. If I do this I want to appeal to as many people as I possibly can. Giving players the option and a means to use their own music might be one way to do that. It also means you're less likely to get sued for selling copyrighted material, which you very well could if you bundled copyrighted music with your game. You have acquired the skill of Weaponry Theremin. Your current level of mastery is 10 Apprentice. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 5:17 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle Hi, When it comes to choosing game music a developer must always keep his target audience in mind. Not everyone likes the so-called "up to date" music you speak of. I know several people who absolutely hate hip-hop and I know a few people who think it is the best music on earth. I personally dislike hip-hop, I am an 80's rock fan myself, so I would not be inclined to include that sort of music in my games. One way to resolve this problem is for a developer to use music that is acceptable to just about everyone such as by using cinematic music tracks. I've got plenty of mainstream games here that use cinematic music tracks like Star Wars, Tomb Raider, Indiana Jones, Star Trek Elite Force I and Elite Force II, etc. The music is something that is there and doesn't disrupt your concentration while playing. Now, could you imagine playing something like Star Trek Elite Force and instead of the Star Trek cinematic music in the background you have some hip-hop music in the background instead. Not only would it sound completely out of place for that kind of game, but I would find it totally distracting. For me it would kill the mood, and be come a major disruption. Now, let's assume the game was about gang warfair in L.A. Then, I could see some hip-hop music in the game. Something like natural Born Killer would fit right in with the games kill or be killed game play. However, that style of game is completely different from Star Trek. HTH CSF inc. wrote: Your the man, and can't wait for your football game, dude, call me personally.. As for a fighting game. I can only wish, and allot of other blind gamers I know is starving for it.. And what about up to dat music? Rock, Hip - Hop, club, dance.. Come on it's almost 2010.. Later --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
Hip - Hop is my music of choice, I guess if you haven't seen or felt the energy of a rap show you couldn't see what I feel; it's a culture that began in the south Bronx in the 1970's and has maintained to be the number 1 growing music category as far as Gross Sales for the last 10 years, so I guess someone is buying it Ha? As far as Star Wars music, come on, be realistic, would you have fifty cent as the musical theme? No, and that is correct; but, for games like GTA it fits because of the gangster nature of the game, but all Rap isn't gangster, ever herd of Most Def? Common sense, the roots and many more; within the culture of Rap there is sub sections like Christian Rap.. Still as time moves on so should the musical background of video games, the main stream has thousands of games with Rap on it, and so should audio; we should stay current with Popular Culture, everyone isn't from the Hills of Montana.. Not to offend but really.. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 6:17 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle Hi, When it comes to choosing game music a developer must always keep his target audience in mind. Not everyone likes the so-called "up to date" music you speak of. I know several people who absolutely hate hip-hop and I know a few people who think it is the best music on earth. I personally dislike hip-hop, I am an 80's rock fan myself, so I would not be inclined to include that sort of music in my games. One way to resolve this problem is for a developer to use music that is acceptable to just about everyone such as by using cinematic music tracks. I've got plenty of mainstream games here that use cinematic music tracks like Star Wars, Tomb Raider, Indiana Jones, Star Trek Elite Force I and Elite Force II, etc. The music is something that is there and doesn't disrupt your concentration while playing. Now, could you imagine playing something like Star Trek Elite Force and instead of the Star Trek cinematic music in the background you have some hip-hop music in the background instead. Not only would it sound completely out of place for that kind of game, but I would find it totally distracting. For me it would kill the mood, and be come a major disruption. Now, let's assume the game was about gang warfair in L.A. Then, I could see some hip-hop music in the game. Something like natural Born Killer would fit right in with the games kill or be killed game play. However, that style of game is completely different from Star Trek. HTH CSF inc. wrote: Your the man, and can't wait for your football game, dude, call me personally.. As for a fighting game. I can only wish, and allot of other blind gamers I know is starving for it.. And what about up to dat music? Rock, Hip - Hop, club, dance.. Come on it's almost 2010.. Later --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] the real game circle
I think they would notice us if we did something drastic. the easiest thing sould be to make a game using their chars and names and well make an accessible game to show them what we could do. Issue is we would get the wrong attention. The other option is impossible or almost. if we made something they wanted, then make it on par with their stuff then maybe they would be able to be interested. There are several issues. time and the number of devs we would need for a big project. then there is the tech we would need. good sfx, 3d graphics, directx, xna, multiplayer games with a large world base and servers ofcause. we would need more things than even sod has. we would be able to use the latest tech whatever that was. The only game that actually comes close is teraformas and really thats it. usagames stuff does hit it but not quite yet. we'd really have to hit it with loads of things. At 10:52 a.m. 16/08/2009, you wrote: >Hi Josh, >Yes, several people have been in touch with mainstream game companies >regarding improved accessibility. There is an organization called IGDA which >has spent considerable time and money working towards improved accessible >games, and they have been continually stonewalled by the companies that be. >concessions have been very few and far between. >For example, IGDA has managed to convince some game companies to include >closed captioning in many of their game scenes and dialogs for people with >hearing impairments. That, of course, doesn't help us any, but it is a small >compromise they managed to get out of some of these major game companies. >The major problem comes down to time and money. We are a very small minority, >and are hardly worth a companies time and money. They are not going to shell >out big money on research and development for game accessibility unless they >are going to get a huge financial return on that investment. Unfortunately, >there isn't enough of us around to really make a major impact on their sales, >and we hold no real influence with these companies. So total accessibility is >pretty darned unlikely in the near future. >That's to say nothing about the general attitude of these companies. From what >I've heard responses range from polite sympathy to outright rudeness. I get >the feeling some of these companies think of us as an annoying gnat that can >be swatted out of the way, and in a sense they would b correct. > >Josh wrote: >>Hi, >>Has anyone ever thought of calling companies like Sony and writing letters to >>them and petitioning for the major video game companies to modify their >>current games so they are accessible? put a visually impaired/blind players >>mode in the games and a button to access it? And with today's console >>arcitecture why not add text to speech built right into the console? same >>with pc games, add an accessibility option or a downloadable accessibility >>pack for the games. and since we got firefox and webvisum brushthose captchas >>aside, subscribe to the sighted gamers forums and lets make our voices heard >>and keep making them heard until we get what we want, the quality of games >>played by our sighted friends. >> >>Josh >> > > >--- >Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org >If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. >You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. >If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, >please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
Hi, Michael said: Remember when these games we have were released. There are tipically large chunks of empty time between any two game releases. It takes ages to put a game together. My responce: Not only that we need to keep in mind the more complex the game the longer it takes. I can put together a simple Blackjack game in a couple of days time. Something like Shades of Doom or Tank Commander would take at least a year or so to complete with my current schedule. Probably longer. Michael said: Don't throw the baby out with the bath-water. Arcade games shouldn't be thought of as less worthy acomplishments. We haven't even begun to approach the variety and scope available to sighted people. My responce: That's certainly true. There are several games that fall into the arcade game genre, and have become legends in their own right. Games like Asteroids, Montezuma's Revenge, Pacman, Missile Command, Bomberman, and so on will go down in history as some of the best games in history. A couple of years ago Activision released an Atari console with several clasic arcade games on it, and it sold like hot cakes. People still enjoy those old Atari classics even though they are very old in terms of vidio game technology. In terms of theaccessible games market we have only had a small, very small, samplying of what the arcade genre has to offer. So far we have seen a demo of Montezuma's Revenge, PCS has done a good reproduction of Pacman, and several people have created their own Space invaders style games. However, that is actually a drop in the bucket when it comes to all of the games that once existed for the Atari and other arcade consoles. Michael said: Sidescrollers have a whole lot to offer blind people. We really haven't seen any serious exploration of that genre despite the relative ease of translating it into accessible form. My responce: Yes, and there have been many good games that were originally created as side-scrollers. Games like Castlevania, Megaman, Double dragon, Pitfall, Montezuma's Revenge, Super Mario Brothers, Prince of Persia, etc all started out as side-scrollers, and became best sellers. The genre has an impressive history, and converts fairly well into an audio only format. Michael said: Variety, rather than actual innovation, is what is truly being sought here. Let's be clear about this. The actual complaint being sent to game developers isn't truly about their lack of innovation. What a lot of us truly seek is new experience of genres we haven't gotten a chance to play in yet. My rsponce: I have to agree with that excellent observation. It isn't like we have hundreds of side-scrollers, arcade games, first person shooters, simulators, etc to choose from that are actually 100% accessible out of the box. There is nothing wrong with card games, board games, and so on but we don't have enough variety to satisfy everyone's interests properly. I'm personally interested in real time action games like Shades of Doom, Tank Commander, and Lonewolf. I'd love to see more games along that line being created. Someone else might really be into card and board games, and want to see more games like that being developed. Others might want to know what it was like playing the classics like Donkey Kong, Frogger, and Asteroids, and would like to see more games like that being created. Unfortunately, there isn't enough of us skilled game developers to satisfy everyone currently. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
Hi, Yes, very very true. Sometimes It just takes a while for some gamers to adapt to something new. Take Rail Racer for example. When Che first announced the project publically I'll admit I had my doubts about it. I really didn't think the game was going to be all that apealing. However, as time went on and I saw more of the end product it became clear it was the best accessible racing game I've ever played. It's online and off line play is adictive, and it takes a long time to get the hang of playing the game. That's the way it should be. As for the its too hard argument I honestly don't think some people try hard enough at it or don't want to have to work for the pay off. I remember when I first played Shades of Doom, and I found the game really difficult on the easiest experience level. well, after a couple of weeks I got the hang of it, and slowly tried harder and harder experience levels until I am an expert at the game. I didn't get that good at the game just by playing once through. I must have spent hours and hours on it the first couple of months. When I finally killed the boss on the most difficult experience level without using a saved game or cheat codes you can bet I was pretty darn proud of myself. The pay off was really really satisfying. Munawar Bijani wrote: Agreed. I have gotten the same complaints about Three-D Velocity--although it seems as if most people here are very tempted to try new things. So yes, you get the occasional "this is too hard, add feature X to make it easier" message, but for the most part you'll see a positive outlook; if for nothing else, at least because you bring new ideas to the AG market. I think we're all sick of the guess the numbers and side-side shooting games like Dark Destroyer. Just remember, if they don't like it, they don't have to buy it, so don't let it put your hopes down if a couple people do start complaining. Keep your target audience in mind, and don't try to cater to everyone because it won't work. Several games (including Treasure Hunt) failed because of this. Munawar A. Bijani --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] the real game circle
Hi Josh, Yes, several people have been in touch with mainstream game companies regarding improved accessibility. There is an organization called IGDA which has spent considerable time and money working towards improved accessible games, and they have been continually stonewalled by the companies that be. concessions have been very few and far between. For example, IGDA has managed to convince some game companies to include closed captioning in many of their game scenes and dialogs for people with hearing impairments. That, of course, doesn't help us any, but it is a small compromise they managed to get out of some of these major game companies. The major problem comes down to time and money. We are a very small minority, and are hardly worth a companies time and money. They are not going to shell out big money on research and development for game accessibility unless they are going to get a huge financial return on that investment. Unfortunately, there isn't enough of us around to really make a major impact on their sales, and we hold no real influence with these companies. So total accessibility is pretty darned unlikely in the near future. That's to say nothing about the general attitude of these companies. From what I've heard responses range from polite sympathy to outright rudeness. I get the feeling some of these companies think of us as an annoying gnat that can be swatted out of the way, and in a sense they would b correct. Josh wrote: Hi, Has anyone ever thought of calling companies like Sony and writing letters to them and petitioning for the major video game companies to modify their current games so they are accessible? put a visually impaired/blind players mode in the games and a button to access it? And with today's console arcitecture why not add text to speech built right into the console? same with pc games, add an accessibility option or a downloadable accessibility pack for the games. and since we got firefox and webvisum brushthose captchas aside, subscribe to the sighted gamers forums and lets make our voices heard and keep making them heard until we get what we want, the quality of games played by our sighted friends. Josh --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
Some of the music of Jean-Michel Jarre might be good backing for a Sudoku game come to think of it. His album Oxygene comes to mind. You have acquired the skill of Weaponry Theremin. Your current level of mastery is 10 Apprentice. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Charles Rivard" ; "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 3:34 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle Hi Charles, Parish the thought. Iron Butterfly and Sudoku? Just thinking about that combo makes me have a headache. Whenever I play something like Sudoku I want piece and quiet while I think of how to solve the puzzles or at least have some soft and quiet music. Anyway, your point is well taken. Smile. Charles Rivard wrote: To give another example, how about some Iron Butterfly while playing a game of Sudoku? It just doesn't fit. On the other hand, the music and background ambiance in your currently being played demo certainly do fit the game, creating the desired mood. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] the real game circle
Hi, Petitioning is a good idea, but in the end whether or not accessibility gets implemented boils down to revenue. There aren't enough blind players to convince a company like Soni to invest time (including research hours) and money into making a game fully accessible. This is one reason, I believe, why the AG market is suffering so much as well. Do we have developers with amazing potential? Certainly. Why don't they make games that rock the market? Because there isn't enough return. Not to mention some small groups (who we all know about) who take it upon themselves to say, "I don't think it's worth buying, but I'll definitely crack it and play" hurting the market even more. In the end, I think we don't realize, even half way, how much one person cracking an audiogame and ripping the developer of $15-$30 hurts the developer's finances. Making audiogames isn't free, and making mainstream games isn't free either. Munawar A. Bijani "Knowledge is of two types: absorbed and heard. The heard knowledge is only useful if it is absorbed." - Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib, Nahj Al-Balagha mailto:munaw...@gmail.com http://www.bpcprograms.com - Original Message - From: "shaun everiss" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 3:28 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] the real game circle except the departments you hit are the same as the ones for copywrite not envolved in any of the decition making process. in any case this thing needs to be of good will or something not forced. if it is then it may just not happen or if it does prices will go through the roof. At 02:38 a.m. 16/08/2009, you wrote: Hi, Has anyone ever thought of calling companies like Sony and writing letters to them and petitioning for the major video game companies to modify their current games so they are accessible? put a visually impaired/blind players mode in the games and a button to access it? And with today's console arcitecture why not add text to speech built right into the console? same with pc games, add an accessibility option or a downloadable accessibility pack for the games. and since we got firefox and webvisum brushthose captchas aside, subscribe to the sighted gamers forums and lets make our voices heard and keep making them heard until we get what we want, the quality of games played by our sighted friends. Josh Join me on klango at www.klango.net visit and sign my petition at: http://www.petitiononline.com/coda1234/petition.html and visit my blog at: http://jkenn337.klangoblog.net follow me on twitter at http://www.twitter.com/jkenn337 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
Hi Charles, Parish the thought. Iron Butterfly and Sudoku? Just thinking about that combo makes me have a headache. Whenever I play something like Sudoku I want piece and quiet while I think of how to solve the puzzles or at least have some soft and quiet music. Anyway, your point is well taken. Smile. Charles Rivard wrote: To give another example, how about some Iron Butterfly while playing a game of Sudoku? It just doesn't fit. On the other hand, the music and background ambiance in your currently being played demo certainly do fit the game, creating the desired mood. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] the real game circle
except the departments you hit are the same as the ones for copywrite not envolved in any of the decition making process. in any case this thing needs to be of good will or something not forced. if it is then it may just not happen or if it does prices will go through the roof. At 02:38 a.m. 16/08/2009, you wrote: >Hi, >Has anyone ever thought of calling companies like Sony and writing letters to >them and petitioning for the major video game companies to modify their >current games so they are accessible? put a visually impaired/blind players >mode in the games and a button to access it? And with today's console >arcitecture why not add text to speech built right into the console? same with >pc games, add an accessibility option or a downloadable accessibility pack for >the games. and since we got firefox and webvisum brushthose captchas aside, >subscribe to the sighted gamers forums and lets make our voices heard and keep >making them heard until we get what we want, the quality of games played by >our sighted friends. > > >Josh > >Join me on klango at www.klango.net visit and sign my petition at: >http://www.petitiononline.com/coda1234/petition.html >and visit my blog at: http://jkenn337.klangoblog.net follow me on twitter at >http://www.twitter.com/jkenn337 >--- >Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org >If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. >You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. >If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, >please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
Hi Tom, I think the real issue is not the lack of plot in Tomb raider, but simply that it's been going on for so long. Take Metal Gear Solid, for instance. It got so popular people wrote official analytical papers on its story. Scratch the game play--it's just a first-person shooter. But the developers for MGS did something right: they pakced the entire plot into four games, and ended it. Harry Potter would have suffered the same fate as Tomb Raider if Rowling had dragged on the series for another ten books. Animorphs suffered that fate. What seems to happen is some developers get too cocky and don't know when to stop. When that happens, the audience goes, "oh, when will this thing end?" And then when it does, they go "finally!" and just throw the whole series out the window. Or when they do finally end it, the ending wasn't even worth the suspense. I know several series that have ended horribly--with a total lack of creativity, and it has left me disappointed in the end. Munawar A. Bijani "Knowledge is of two types: absorbed and heard. The heard knowledge is only useful if it is absorbed." - Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib, Nahj Al-Balagha mailto:munaw...@gmail.com http://www.bpcprograms.com - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 11:58 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle Hi, True. There really hasn't been any thing new that has made a big splash of late. At least nothing I would be really interested in. Last fall Edos released Tomb raider 8, but Underworld was more of a disappointment than anything else. The Tomb Raider games have been really losing sales over the passed few releases, and is nothing like what it was in the late 1990's. The graphics and sound effects are superior, but the games have lost something that made the first few games special. Well, I've heard about some technical issues with Tomb Raider Underworld and camera angles which probably didn't help the game any. shaun everiss wrote: well to tell you the truth there are not so many big shots now. in fact nothing has made the headlines of late. no big company has released anything lately that has hit the lines either my friend that is sighted says he does pick the odd bit up but its not as bussy as it was like a year or 2 back. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] the real game circle
I hate to say it but that'll probably never happen. We have to look at how cost effective it would be for these companies to make their games accessible. Given that we're a distinct minority chances are they're going to say it's not cost effective. That's always going to be the number 1 priority for them, above everything else. And I'm sure people have called, written to and otherwise communicated with these big name companies. I'll admit that Nintendo seems at least willing to listen to the idea but that's about as far as it's ever gone. As for the other developers that people have contacted, most were apparently quite rude about the whole thing. You have acquired the skill of Weaponry Theremin. Your current level of mastery is 10 Apprentice. - Original Message - From: "Josh" To: "gamers list" Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 8:38 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] the real game circle Hi, Has anyone ever thought of calling companies like Sony and writing letters to them and petitioning for the major video game companies to modify their current games so they are accessible? put a visually impaired/blind players mode in the games and a button to access it? And with today's console arcitecture why not add text to speech built right into the console? same with pc games, add an accessibility option or a downloadable accessibility pack for the games. and since we got firefox and webvisum brushthose captchas aside, subscribe to the sighted gamers forums and lets make our voices heard and keep making them heard until we get what we want, the quality of games played by our sighted friends. Josh Join me on klango at www.klango.net visit and sign my petition at: http://www.petitiononline.com/coda1234/petition.html and visit my blog at: http://jkenn337.klangoblog.net follow me on twitter at http://www.twitter.com/jkenn337 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] the real game circle
Oh nobody's really saying it can't be done, although I'll admit I had my doubts about the Wii. The real problem is and will probably always be convincing developers that it would be worthwhile to do so. We are, as much as I hate to say it, a distinct minority in the gaming community. Financial concerns are always going to way more heavily on developers' minds than anything else. Making games for us may not be cost effective. You have acquired the skill of Weaponry Theremin. Your current level of mastery is 10 Apprentice. - Original Message - From: "michael barnes" To: Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 8:45 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] the real game circle i agree with that i have talk to nintendo about that a year ago with the wii it can be done they can make sport games for the blind such as goalball and beatball and other sports for the blind they can make racing games for the blind and shooting games aswell because the wii is interactive so it can be done -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] the real game circle
i agree with that i have talk to nintendo about that a year ago with the wii it can be done they can make sport games for the blind such as goalball and beatball and other sports for the blind they can make racing games for the blind and shooting games aswell because the wii is interactive so it can be done -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] the real game circle
Hi, Has anyone ever thought of calling companies like Sony and writing letters to them and petitioning for the major video game companies to modify their current games so they are accessible? put a visually impaired/blind players mode in the games and a button to access it? And with today's console arcitecture why not add text to speech built right into the console? same with pc games, add an accessibility option or a downloadable accessibility pack for the games. and since we got firefox and webvisum brushthose captchas aside, subscribe to the sighted gamers forums and lets make our voices heard and keep making them heard until we get what we want, the quality of games played by our sighted friends. Josh Join me on klango at www.klango.net visit and sign my petition at: http://www.petitiononline.com/coda1234/petition.html and visit my blog at: http://jkenn337.klangoblog.net follow me on twitter at http://www.twitter.com/jkenn337 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
Now there's a disturbing image, a Final Fantasy game with ACDC playing in the background. You have acquired the skill of Weaponry Theremin. Your current level of mastery is 10 Apprentice. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 10:13 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle Hi Bryan, Well, my point was that certain games require a certain type of music, a theme to set the mood, and is all part of the art of game design. Sticking heavy metal, hip-hop, or anything else in a game were it doesn't belong will kill the game. You can't write a purely fantacy game and have hard rock like AC-DC or hip-hop music like Ice Cube playing in the background. It just sounds out of place as well as very annoying to some people. As for copyrights goes that is very true. Although, I legally license my music for my games so that at least isn't a problem. Though, it cost me quite a bit of cash to do it. Bryan Peterson wrote: Or you could do what Che did for Rail Racer and give players the option of using their own music via WinAmp. I never did that myself because the music got too distracting and I couldn't hear ART. Actually if Angel and my plans work out we'll probably do that for a lot of our games, particularly if we develop any sports type titles. And that's not entirely out of the question despite my not being a sports fan. If I do this I want to appeal to as many people as I possibly can. Giving players the option and a means to use their own music might be one way to do that. It also means you're less likely to get sued for selling copyrighted material, which you very well could if you bundled copyrighted music with your game. You have acquired the skill of Weaponry Theremin. Your current level of mastery is 10 Apprentice. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
Hi William, Well, maybe nothing totally new, but I've released a few demos of Mysteries of the Ancients. That's better than nothing I guess. As it happens Mysteries of the Ancients is undergoing a major update, and I can pretty much say the game will be out sometime between now and Christmas provided nothing major happens between now and then. Once I complete the upgrades I am doing now all that will be left is to add the game levels. Smile. william lomas wrote: same for us in the blind community no games have came out this year and we are eight months into the year already --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
Hi Kelly, Thanks for the encouragement. It always is nice to get abit of encouragement now and then. Smile. Kellie and my lovable Lady J. wrote: Tom, I can tell you thta I support you creating a fully 3d sound and all that engine. I like a challenge and the more complex the game, the more it holds my attention. There are always those who dislike change or something foreign. There are many who critasize the IPhone for being a touch screen and too difficult to use. I have one, and while it isn't a phone that everyone would want, I use it with ease. But, I can't wait til you create an engine like that and games. I wish I understood programming, if I did I would aid any way I could. Kellie and my lovable Lady J. Resident Adviser, Guide Dogs for the Blind Oregon campus www.guidedogs.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
same for us in the blind community no games have came out this year and we are eight months into the year already On 15 Aug 2009, at 04:58, Thomas Ward wrote: Hi, True. There really hasn't been any thing new that has made a big splash of late. At least nothing I would be really interested in. Last fall Edos released Tomb raider 8, but Underworld was more of a disappointment than anything else. The Tomb Raider games have been really losing sales over the passed few releases, and is nothing like what it was in the late 1990's. The graphics and sound effects are superior, but the games have lost something that made the first few games special. Well, I've heard about some technical issues with Tomb Raider Underworld and camera angles which probably didn't help the game any. shaun everiss wrote: well to tell you the truth there are not so many big shots now. in fact nothing has made the headlines of late. no big company has released anything lately that has hit the lines either my friend that is sighted says he does pick the odd bit up but its not as bussy as it was like a year or 2 back. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org . You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
Hi, That's my problem as well. I like online game play, but I really don't have time to devote to it.I've played some games like SoundRTS and Rail Racer online, but you really have to do it when there are enough people around to play.That's really the problem with network game play. You have to do it when everyones schedules match, or else you don't have a game. For me, that's not very convenient, as I generally pick up and play a game when it suits me. If it is at midnight then is when I expect to play. Obviously, if there is no one online at midnight when I am ready to play online then online play wouldn't be too fun. That's why single player games tend to suit me. I can play them at any time anywhere. shaun everiss wrote: same here. online play sounds nice but I must admit I rarely have the time or care to go online. Although I enjoyed the comcept, after testing I didn't bother. the other thing is my connection is slow on upload so 12kb. so if I ever needed to download anything ginormous or anything forget it. dropouts, etc. I dabble here and there. At 06:28 a.m. 15/08/2009, you wrote: Personally I could care less about online play. I don't know, I've just never had much interest in it. But I imagine my games will probably include the option at some point even if not right away. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
Tom, I can tell you thta I support you creating a fully 3d sound and all that engine. I like a challenge and the more complex the game, the more it holds my attention. There are always those who dislike change or something foreign. There are many who critasize the IPhone for being a touch screen and too difficult to use. I have one, and while it isn't a phone that everyone would want, I use it with ease. But, I can't wait til you create an engine like that and games. I wish I understood programming, if I did I would aid any way I could. Kellie and my lovable Lady J. Resident Adviser, Guide Dogs for the Blind Oregon campus www.guidedogs.com - Original Message - From: "CSF inc." To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 5:46 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle I agree, and I loved the trailer for Star Wars Jedi Attack.. Hey, you guys do a great job, bottom line.. I know developers are true gamers at the very core and that is what pushes you to make games in general, I just would like to see that 13 year old gamer come back out in the creation of games; Like when I played Coleko Vision for the first time.. Smile - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 1:29 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle Hi, Well said. I too also feel as though the accessible games we have are a bit disappointing. No disrespect to my fellow game developers, but there really isn't anything that is really new or innovative to speak of besides Rail Racer. For the most part accessible games tend to fall into two catagories. Either they are simple board and card games, or an arcade game type theme. Personally, I find the options rather limitting compared to what was available to me before I lost my sight, and is the main reason I began writing accesible games myself. As for the GMA engine I have to disagree with you. Besides the fact it is a bit old it still is one of the best tools an accessible developer can use. It is an FPS game engine, and in the right hands it could be used to create some killer accessible games. We have already seen what it can do with Shades of Doom and Tank Commander, and I think with some updates it should be able to create games more or less on par with Star Trek Elite Force, Star Wars Jedi Knight, etc. In some respects it isn't the fault of the tool here, but perhaps it is the developer's lack of imagination, creativity, or experience with full blown FPS games here. As for the Star Wars game I was working on I had to put that project on hold for a couple of reasons. First, I am still trying to work with Lucas Film on obtaining a Star Wars license. Second, when Alchemy closed up I took over their games and projects which I want to complete before returning to my own original projects. CSF inc. wrote: With the current game circle we have as blind gamers, it's disappointing; There are interesting games we play but very few; other games are not accessible to certain computers and operating systems; others are so simple and plain, for some of us who has played "regular games," it's disheartening; Effort should be made into making games more involved, more ideas "ie stop making games off of GMA's frame work," There is only 1 Shades, 1 Tank Commander.. lastly, we need games we can play along with our sighted family like "Soul Caliber". We have no fighting games, no sports games we can play without some A.I. making it not real; even though the 2nd best player in the world in Mortal Combat is Blind!! We should of taken that initiative and created some type of fighting game at least similar to Mortal.. Are blind people not sports fans? would we like to box? run the football? aim the pitch in a baseball game? even fly a F-16 in combat.. Sim's are O.K. I guess, but it takes the control and fun out of the game.. Some will complain about this post, some will agree; the point is We Need More Variety, And Not The Same Games With Different Titles.. What happened to Star Wars Jedi attack? OOh Yeah Baby.. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All
Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
To give another example, how about some Iron Butterfly while playing a game of Sudoku? It just doesn't fit. On the other hand, the music and background ambiance in your currently being played demo certainly do fit the game, creating the desired mood. --- Shepherds are the best beasts. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 9:13 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle Hi Bryan, Well, my point was that certain games require a certain type of music, a theme to set the mood, and is all part of the art of game design. Sticking heavy metal, hip-hop, or anything else in a game were it doesn't belong will kill the game. You can't write a purely fantacy game and have hard rock like AC-DC or hip-hop music like Ice Cube playing in the background. It just sounds out of place as well as very annoying to some people. As for copyrights goes that is very true. Although, I legally license my music for my games so that at least isn't a problem. Though, it cost me quite a bit of cash to do it. Bryan Peterson wrote: Or you could do what Che did for Rail Racer and give players the option of using their own music via WinAmp. I never did that myself because the music got too distracting and I couldn't hear ART. Actually if Angel and my plans work out we'll probably do that for a lot of our games, particularly if we develop any sports type titles. And that's not entirely out of the question despite my not being a sports fan. If I do this I want to appeal to as many people as I possibly can. Giving players the option and a means to use their own music might be one way to do that. It also means you're less likely to get sued for selling copyrighted material, which you very well could if you bundled copyrighted music with your game. You have acquired the skill of Weaponry Theremin. Your current level of mastery is 10 Apprentice. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
Hi Charles, Actually, I don't think coming up with fresh ideas is the problem, but the trouble is coming up with a fresh idea that sells. Not everyone can come up with a story line that is in the league of Star Trek, Harry Potter, Star Wars, Final Fantacy, etc. I'm pretty sure when George Lucas came up with Star Wars and J.K. Rolling came up with Harry Potter they had no idea that their ideas would sell like crazy. Just a person with the right idea at the right time. Anyway, the goal of a successful game developer is to create that perfect game. One that everyone is interested in trying, bying, and playing. A remarkably good story line, that hooks the customers imagination, is a big part in adding interest in a game. At least it has been a selling point for me. Charles Rivard wrote: As for game creation ideas, I think of it this way: How long have games for the blind been produced and by how many companies? Compare this with the number of companies that have been producing games for the sighted and the period of time they have been doing so. Fresh ideas are bound to be hard to come by. It's not because of a lack of creativity. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
Hi Bryan, Yes, there is a gray area where copyrights are concerned. For example, a game company like Edos can copyright a game story called Tomb Raider, with a female character named Lara Croft, and so on. However, that doesn't exclude someone coming up with a similar type of game with different characters and slightly different plot. I've done it in my Tomb Hunter series, it is similar to Tomb Raider, but I am well with in the gray area that it is all legal. As long as I don't go around calling my game Tomb Raider, call my main character Lara Croft, and so on I'm safe. Sarah and the Castle of Wichcraft is another one of those games that falls in a gray area. It isn't specifically a Harry Potter game, but it does use a few aspects of the Harry Potter books/movies. If necessary all Phil would have to do is change the names of the ghosts, spells, castle, and he'd be 100% in the clear. Bryan Peterson wrote: Ideas themselves, such as general storylines, can't be copyrighted. It's when you start using the names of characters and places that you run the risk of legal trouble. I imagine the main reason people like Phil haven't run into trouble about Sarah and the Castle of Witchcraft and Wizardry, which does use names and locations from copyrighted books, is that we're such a small community. But at the same time that's no guaranteer of safety as THomas found out. You have acquired the skill of Weaponry Theremin. Your current level of mastery is 10 Apprentice. - Original Message - From: "Charles Rivard" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 4:13 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle As for game creation ideas, I think of it this way: How long have games for the blind been produced and by how many companies? Compare this with the number of companies that have been producing games for the sighted and the period of time they have been doing so. Fresh ideas are bound to be hard to come by. It's not because of a lack of creativity. --- Shepherds are the best beasts. - Original Message - From: "Tristan B" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 1:41 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle Hi, Not to take you down, but... Sadly, it seems to me like the sighted come up with every idea that we have before it ever even seemed like an idea. They have millions and still counting of video games released in one country. Thousands for single consoles, sometimes it seems like whatever ideas I think up are copyrighted or used somewhere else. That's just me. I may not have the spark of creativity that others may have, or I may be right. Just my oppinion. Tristan B TrekGames.net Cosmos - TrekGames.net, port 1234. ----- Original Message - From: "michael barnes" To: Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 3:12 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle i agree with you since i lost my sight that is all i can play is audio games they do remind me of old video games that i enjoy playing but it would be cool to play never before ideals that none of the sighted game maker ever came up with i do wish someone would make a newer version of distnation mars and run for presdinent -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.
Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
Hi Bryan, Well, my point was that certain games require a certain type of music, a theme to set the mood, and is all part of the art of game design. Sticking heavy metal, hip-hop, or anything else in a game were it doesn't belong will kill the game. You can't write a purely fantacy game and have hard rock like AC-DC or hip-hop music like Ice Cube playing in the background. It just sounds out of place as well as very annoying to some people. As for copyrights goes that is very true. Although, I legally license my music for my games so that at least isn't a problem. Though, it cost me quite a bit of cash to do it. Bryan Peterson wrote: Or you could do what Che did for Rail Racer and give players the option of using their own music via WinAmp. I never did that myself because the music got too distracting and I couldn't hear ART. Actually if Angel and my plans work out we'll probably do that for a lot of our games, particularly if we develop any sports type titles. And that's not entirely out of the question despite my not being a sports fan. If I do this I want to appeal to as many people as I possibly can. Giving players the option and a means to use their own music might be one way to do that. It also means you're less likely to get sued for selling copyrighted material, which you very well could if you bundled copyrighted music with your game. You have acquired the skill of Weaponry Theremin. Your current level of mastery is 10 Apprentice. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
Hi, True. There really hasn't been any thing new that has made a big splash of late. At least nothing I would be really interested in. Last fall Edos released Tomb raider 8, but Underworld was more of a disappointment than anything else. The Tomb Raider games have been really losing sales over the passed few releases, and is nothing like what it was in the late 1990's. The graphics and sound effects are superior, but the games have lost something that made the first few games special. Well, I've heard about some technical issues with Tomb Raider Underworld and camera angles which probably didn't help the game any. shaun everiss wrote: well to tell you the truth there are not so many big shots now. in fact nothing has made the headlines of late. no big company has released anything lately that has hit the lines either my friend that is sighted says he does pick the odd bit up but its not as bussy as it was like a year or 2 back. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
Hi, Yes, that is definitely one of the major problems I face as a game developer. Even something as simple as a title for a game is already used, copyrighted to the hilt, and there isn't much I can do about it. For example, I've been thinking of creating a large roll playing game. Well, I wrote down a list of possible titles for the game. I had about 10 possibles written down in a text file. I then took that list, went online, and checked if there were games using those titles. Sure enough every single title I thought I had come up with was already used by somebody else, and was copyrighted by someone else. It's pretty depressing to know you spend x amount of time thinking up what might be cool titles for a game only to discover someone else has beat you to the punch so to speak. When it comes to new and innovative game stories I can't think of anything that hasn't already been done before. You have your vampire games, zomby fighting games, loads of military games, your civilization style games, and so on. You name it someone has probably done it. Tristan B wrote: Hi, Not to take you down, but... Sadly, it seems to me like the sighted come up with every idea that we have before it ever even seemed like an idea. They have millions and still counting of video games released in one country. Thousands for single consoles, sometimes it seems like whatever ideas I think up are copyrighted or used somewhere else. That's just me. I may not have the spark of creativity that others may have, or I may be right. Just my oppinion. Tristan B TrekGames.net Cosmos - TrekGames.net, port 1234. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
same here. online play sounds nice but I must admit I rarely have the time or care to go online. Although I enjoyed the comcept, after testing I didn't bother. the other thing is my connection is slow on upload so 12kb. so if I ever needed to download anything ginormous or anything forget it. dropouts, etc. I dabble here and there. At 06:28 a.m. 15/08/2009, you wrote: >Personally I could care less about online play. I don't know, I've just never >had much interest in it. But I imagine my games will probably include the >option at some point even if not right away. >You have acquired the skill of Weaponry Theremin. >Your current level of mastery is 10 Apprentice. >- Original Message - From: "James Howard" >To: "Charles Rivard" ; "Gamers Discussion list" > >Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 10:47 AM >Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle > > >>I'll admit, I'm not into audio games that much, because of the simple >>fact, they're like some say, not really inovative. I don't know about >>rail racer, cause I haven't ried it yet, but I'm planning on doing so. >>If I do play any audio games, I only stick to the ones that go online, >>thats the biggest threal I get out of them right now. >>I go with alot of people said, I would love to see more complex stuff, >>real rpgs, just to name a certain type I like. but if I game was more >>complex, had more of a plot, and alot more involved, I'd be more into >>playing it. >>I enjoy the stuff Che has done with the online card stuff, I'm sort of >>hooked on that. >> >>On 8/14/09, Charles Rivard wrote: >>>I'll bet that technical support for a game that was created by a bunch of >>>different developers would be a mess, too. >>>--- >>>Shepherds are the best beasts. >>>- Original Message - >>>From: "Che" >>>To: "Gamers Discussion list" >>>Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 11:48 PM >>>Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle >>> >>> >>>>regarding the idea of developers teaming up, it is a great idea in theory, >>>> >>>>but a diffficult one to put into practice in reality. >>>> every developer i have talked to without exception, myself included have >>>>large egos and set ways of doing things, this would be a serious problem i >>>> >>>>think. >>>>secondly, deciding how to whack up the proceeds would be a huge issue. >>>> lastly, all involved would have to agree on a language to use for >>>>programming, which may or may not be a big problem depending on folks >>>>involved. >>>>anyhow, if some developers can get something done as a group, i'm all for >>>>it. but i know as for myself, i work better alone, where the vision is >>>>one, all problems as well as successes are also mine alone to deal with, >>>>and if something is screwed up, i have nobody to blame but myself. >>>> i think this could work out if everyone agreed on the outline of the >>>>project, and designed things modularly so each programmer would have their >>>> >>>>own little corner to work on, which could be intergrated into the whole >>>>later on. once again, easier said than done. >>>>later >>>>che >>>> >>>>- Original Message - >>>>From: "william lomas" >>>>To: "Gamers Discussion list" >>>>Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 1:31 AM >>>>Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle >>>> >>>> >>>>>it will be interesting though to be fair, to see what draconis have up >>>>>their sleives. i thought 2009 was the year for draconis, but nothing as >>>>>of yet? >>>>> >>>>>On 14 Aug 2009, at 07:29, Thomas Ward wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>Hi, >>>>>>Well said. I too also feel as though the accessible games we have are a >>>>>> >>>>>>bit disappointing. No disrespect to my fellow game developers, but >>>>>>there really isn't anything that is really new or innovative to speak >>>>>>of besides Rail Racer. >>>>>>For the most part accessible games tend to fall into two catagories. >>>>>>Either they are simple board and card games, or an arcade game type >>>>>>theme. Personally, I find the options rather limitting compared to what >>>>>&g
Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
Agreed. I have gotten the same complaints about Three-D Velocity--although it seems as if most people here are very tempted to try new things. So yes, you get the occasional "this is too hard, add feature X to make it easier" message, but for the most part you'll see a positive outlook; if for nothing else, at least because you bring new ideas to the AG market. I think we're all sick of the guess the numbers and side-side shooting games like Dark Destroyer. Just remember, if they don't like it, they don't have to buy it, so don't let it put your hopes down if a couple people do start complaining. Keep your target audience in mind, and don't try to cater to everyone because it won't work. Several games (including Treasure Hunt) failed because of this. Munawar A. Bijani "Knowledge is of two types: absorbed and heard. The heard knowledge is only useful if it is absorbed." - Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib, Nahj Al-Balagha mailto:munaw...@gmail.com http://www.bpcprograms.com - Original Message - From: "Tristan B" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 11:25 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle Hello, I sure hope it does; it sounds like you and her would make a great game dev team. *grins*. And I agree holeheartedly with your message.. Regards, Tristan B TrekGames.net Cosmos - TrekGames.net, port 1234. - Original Message - From: "Bryan Peterson" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 12:00 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle You're definitely right about that Tristan. Many of us complain about how most games are too easy, which I can definitely agree with, but then when something new comes out or is even mentioned we start whining and snivelling about how it'd be too hard. Take Technoshock for instance. Granted I spent months on Technoshock before I got really frustrated with it, but I saw complaints on the audiogames.net forum within days. Some were quite rude as I recall. But if this business between myself and my girlfriend Angel works out hopefully the AG market will start to see some games we can really be proud of. My girlfriend is a fairly apt programmer I found out and when I mentioned the idea of computer games for the blind she got really excited and wanted us to work together on something. She might even join this list. It's one of the places I referred her to for information. You have acquired the skill of Weaponry Theremin. Your current level of mastery is 10 Apprentice. - Original Message - From: "Tristan B" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 7:48 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle Its pretty sad, if I must say so myself, because gamers are basicly just shooting themselves in the foot. They ask for enw games, then they complain. Not pointing fingers here, but its what I've noticed. Tristan B TrekGames.net Cosmos - TrekGames.net, port 1234. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Che" ; "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 2:51 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle Hi Che, I know the feeling. I'm not sure why but simple and easy games appears to be what sells in the accessible games market. As many people know one of my plans will be to create a full blown 3d game engine, as in actual 3d levels with 3d objects, 3d movement, as well as 3d audio support. No sooner did i mention my plans I got various comments to the effect that anything I made using it would be "too hard" even though they never seen the final product yet. One of the things that bothered me was some people immediately tried to tell me that because they have problems with Audioquake and Technoshock they absolutely know that they couldn't play any of my games. They didn't seam to consider the fact that with Audioquake accessibility is poorly implemented, and because it is a modified version of Quake it wasn't designed from the ground up for a blind player. Accessibility is an add on, and there could be a lot more done to it to provide accessibility. Technoshock also has some accessibility issues, that make it harder than say Shades of Doom to play, and i feel accessibility could b done better in that game. I've seen what works and what doesn't and I'd use that experience plus my own blindness to work out any and all accessibility problems that might crop up. Anyway, the bottom line is now and then we see a thread like this where someone suggests coming up with something new, something different, something more mainstream, and when a developer tries to do that, come up with something truly amazing like Rail Racer, the complaints thatit is too hard come rolling in. As a developer we rea
Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
Well thankyou. Thankyouverymuch. Yeah, I hope this works out. Angel's offered to try to teach me some of what she knows and we can go from there. Like I may have said she's in college and her major is computer programming. She's actually hoping to open her own computer repair shop someday, but if audio game development worked out there could be that little bit of extra income on top of our regular one, even if it wasn't all that much. And if we did figure out how to get word out to more blind people, folks who were interested in gaming but either didn't know about or couldn't be captivated by our current market, it might make it more worthwhile. Of course that would be the hard part right there. You have acquired the skill of Weaponry Theremin. Your current level of mastery is 10 Apprentice. - Original Message - From: "Tristan B" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 8:25 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle Hello, I sure hope it does; it sounds like you and her would make a great game dev team. *grins*. And I agree holeheartedly with your message.. Regards, Tristan B TrekGames.net Cosmos - TrekGames.net, port 1234. - Original Message - From: "Bryan Peterson" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 12:00 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle You're definitely right about that Tristan. Many of us complain about how most games are too easy, which I can definitely agree with, but then when something new comes out or is even mentioned we start whining and snivelling about how it'd be too hard. Take Technoshock for instance. Granted I spent months on Technoshock before I got really frustrated with it, but I saw complaints on the audiogames.net forum within days. Some were quite rude as I recall. But if this business between myself and my girlfriend Angel works out hopefully the AG market will start to see some games we can really be proud of. My girlfriend is a fairly apt programmer I found out and when I mentioned the idea of computer games for the blind she got really excited and wanted us to work together on something. She might even join this list. It's one of the places I referred her to for information. You have acquired the skill of Weaponry Theremin. Your current level of mastery is 10 Apprentice. - Original Message - From: "Tristan B" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 7:48 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle Its pretty sad, if I must say so myself, because gamers are basicly just shooting themselves in the foot. They ask for enw games, then they complain. Not pointing fingers here, but its what I've noticed. Tristan B TrekGames.net Cosmos - TrekGames.net, port 1234. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Che" ; "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 2:51 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle Hi Che, I know the feeling. I'm not sure why but simple and easy games appears to be what sells in the accessible games market. As many people know one of my plans will be to create a full blown 3d game engine, as in actual 3d levels with 3d objects, 3d movement, as well as 3d audio support. No sooner did i mention my plans I got various comments to the effect that anything I made using it would be "too hard" even though they never seen the final product yet. One of the things that bothered me was some people immediately tried to tell me that because they have problems with Audioquake and Technoshock they absolutely know that they couldn't play any of my games. They didn't seam to consider the fact that with Audioquake accessibility is poorly implemented, and because it is a modified version of Quake it wasn't designed from the ground up for a blind player. Accessibility is an add on, and there could be a lot more done to it to provide accessibility. Technoshock also has some accessibility issues, that make it harder than say Shades of Doom to play, and i feel accessibility could b done better in that game. I've seen what works and what doesn't and I'd use that experience plus my own blindness to work out any and all accessibility problems that might crop up. Anyway, the bottom line is now and then we see a thread like this where someone suggests coming up with something new, something different, something more mainstream, and when a developer tries to do that, come up with something truly amazing like Rail Racer, the complaints thatit is too hard come rolling in. As a developer we really can't win. No matter if we do something easy or something new and slightly challenging someone is going to complain. Che wrote: I agree with ya man, I tried something different with rail ra
Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
to produce the game I have in mind. I have a very good appreciation for what a powerful influence games can be to people who play them. I also am passionate about creating a game which delivers a deeper well of thoughtful fun and does so in a way which is infinitely replayable. Whether that's enough to see me through to completion of the project is anyone's guess. My creative engine has been sputtering and stalling lately. Michael Feir Author of Personal Power: How Accessible Computers Can Enhance Personal Life For Blind People 2006-2008 www.blind-planet.com/content/personal-power A Life of Word and Sound 2003-2007 http://www.blind-planet.com/content/life-word-and-sound Creator and former editor of Audyssey Magazine 1996-2004 Check out my blog at: www.michaelfeir.blogspot.com - Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Che" ; "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 2:51 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle Hi Che, I know the feeling. I'm not sure why but simple and easy games appears to be what sells in the accessible games market. As many people know one of my plans will be to create a full blown 3d game engine, as in actual 3d levels with 3d objects, 3d movement, as well as 3d audio support. No sooner did i mention my plans I got various comments to the effect that anything I made using it would be "too hard" even though they never seen the final product yet. One of the things that bothered me was some people immediately tried to tell me that because they have problems with Audioquake and Technoshock they absolutely know that they couldn't play any of my games. They didn't seam to consider the fact that with Audioquake accessibility is poorly implemented, and because it is a modified version of Quake it wasn't designed from the ground up for a blind player. Accessibility is an add on, and there could be a lot more done to it to provide accessibility. Technoshock also has some accessibility issues, that make it harder than say Shades of Doom to play, and i feel accessibility could b done better in that game. I've seen what works and what doesn't and I'd use that experience plus my own blindness to work out any and all accessibility problems that might crop up. Anyway, the bottom line is now and then we see a thread like this where someone suggests coming up with something new, something different, something more mainstream, and when a developer tries to do that, come up with something truly amazing like Rail Racer, the complaints thatit is too hard come rolling in. As a developer we really can't win. No matter if we do something easy or something new and slightly challenging someone is going to complain. Che wrote: I agree with ya man, I tried something different with rail racer, and I suppose it was somewhat successful, but i got lots of complaints that it was too complicated to play. folks complain if it is too easy, if it is too hard, if it takes too much practice to master, blah blah blah. just can't please all the folks all the time. next i am doing an online playable football game, driven with mouse support, custom plays, online season play against human opponents, high end sound effects, etc. . I was going to do a really involved fighting game as posted on list here, but didn't get much feedback on it, and didn't want to spend the next 18 months on something that wasn't going to sell, especially such an ambitious project. I think the folks that would have enjoyed the online fighting game would have really enjoyed it a lot, as those that play rail racer constantly do, but there just aren't enough of them out there to justify the time spent. you can check the archives for details. the project might still get done, but it will have to wait. I think the masses want simple and easy, and those kind of games seem to sell the best. troop n em sold a lot of copies, and at its core, its just a simple shoot em up. anyhow, i want a killer football game myself, so I'm gonna make one. if folks like it fine, if not, whatever, you got to go with what yer passionate about, or the results come out luke warm at best. as for other developers out there, i can't comment, they do what they do, and so far innovation hasn't been at the top of any of their lists lately from what i've seen. We can only hope that changes soon. This is not a money making market to spend hundreds and perhaps thousands of hours on a project and make just a few grand on it. you have to love doing it almost as a hobby , or yer in for dissapointment. I set up the card room because I love poker, and also to offset some of my dedicated server costs, and folks that have played have told me they are the best card games out there for the blind, with features not seen anywhere else. But even so, nobody
Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
Hey Che, I sent you a song to hear but your server rejected my message stating the size was to much; the file is 4.7 mb; would you like me to set up a link from send space? - Original Message - From: "Che" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 12:35 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle Hi ya Mister CSF, where can i go to listen to a sample of your stuff? might be interested in using you down the line for my projects if its good enough. feel free to write me off list. later che c...@blindadrenaline.com - Original Message - From: "CSF inc." To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 1:26 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle I'm a artist with connections to full audio studio's; Pro Tools, Reasons, SSL complete 48 track; 3XD audio like you never herd.. Ya herd.. Smile - Original Message - From: "Ken" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 11:10 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle Well, what we need is our own game team. We need two or three developers working together to program it, we need at least four actors/actresses, we need sound engineers and effects guys. I think a team of six or so could really pull something incredible off, especially if they didn't get impatient about getting a product out fast. I think that's the only way a truly new innovative game is going to come out--because one person can only do so much. I suppose that Che could have spent ten years on Rail Racer and really done a lot more with it--but by then everything would change and he'd have to start from scratch. So how bout some team spirit and a little unity, eh? I'm great with sound effects, acting and narrating, and music. I'm not a very good programmer, and I stop at VB6 for now--maybe I'll learn more later. Do you live near Sandusky Ohio, or are you planning a trip to Cedar Point? Receive a massage at very competitive rates--$40 per hour for a revitalizing therapeutic massage, $65 per house call--any time, anywhere (within reason.) Call 419-577-7973 I'll ease your pain and discomfort, loosen and mobilize your stiff joints, relax your achy muscles, and help you let go of stress, depression, and nervous anxiety... Ken Downey, LMT President of Blind Comfort! The Caring Without the Staring and DreamtechInteractive - Original Message ----- From: "CSF inc." To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 12:36 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle Don't get me wrong, I respect the developers of all audio games because each game is a new exploration in audio gaming itself; I have been playing games both audio and graphical for many years and I'm a true gamer; I think most of the list are true gamers and are hungry for more; we as a culture of audio game players have come a long way, I would like us to keep moving up levels in creation, and not be stagnated in certain type of games; just as we have come a long way from my first game "battle ship," to my favorite Tank Commander, we still have much more game exploration to conquer, and I know with new technology and innovation we will become more extravagant in our options of game playing.. Thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Chesworth" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 9:49 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle Sure, I'd love a huge library of varied titles to choose from as much as the next bored blind guy with a penchant for gaming, but to be blunt, saying "I want this, we need that" doesn't actually do much. For your "I want this, we need that" to become a reality, the fact is that somebody has got to sit down and put in the hours of story creation, game design, and hard graft coding to make the product. The reason that people use the GMA engine seems to be that it's stable and will save them hundreds of hours of building their own from scratch. The reason that we're lacking variation is that a developer with a great imagination, top writing skills, a knack for inivative usability, bags of skill at writing code, and tons of time to pour into all those things and probably some others I've missed hasn't materialised yet. The creation of mainstream titles has that work load spread across huge teams of people in the cases of the games you mentioned, most of the time we're talking about whole teams for each specific area. Every one of those people gets paid full time to do it, has an actual budget to work with, and has probably fought pretty hard to be doing the job they're doing. Maybe you're actually the developer we need having read all that? I know I'm not. I skated over a f
Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
Hi, And that is exactly the problem game developers face. What would be the point in creating an infurior clone of MK or Street Fighter when the ones out there are already playable. Maybe not 100% accessible, but playable. All I could do is come up with an infurior clone that might get some interest, but I am not sure I can create something absolutely on par with the real MK or Street Fighter games. Maybe if I got hold of the sounds, music, etc I could come close, but that's a lot of work for a clone when the original is playable. Scott Chesworth wrote: I too am of the pursuation that would quite like to have a fighting game rock my socks off, mainly because I'm too broke to own a console at the moment. Seems to me though having seen some of the PS3 and even the later PS2 titles that it would be a massive project to get it up to current console standard. There are so many games in this genre that are playable to the point of being worth buying on consoles that anything less would seem kinda pointless to me, unless it was ridiculously adddictive in some non-standard way. I think the developer that takes on this project is gonna have a lot on their plate. Without some real innovation or a touch of something nobody is expecting, we're likely to end up with something not dissimilar to Mortal Kombat 3 with talking menues at best. I dunno if I'd buy that, I already own MK3. Not meaning to put a downer on a project that hasn't even started yet, just musing really. Something else I'd be very very interested in would be some innovations to one of the open source musical game projects like frets on fire to make it more accessible. Sure rockband is playable, but proper speech feedback with online play and such would be just the ticket for me. Can't imagine buying a whole console for it, but I can definitely imagine buying the music controllers to hook up to the pc. Scott --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
Hi, Unfortunately, that is all too true. Working with other game developers can be and is problematic for a lot of reasons. For example, a couple of years back a lot of people were disappointed when Justin announced he was not going to release Castle Quest. There was a problem with the leade developer, and so on. I e-mailed him asking if I could help in any way. As it turned out we could not join up to work on the project for a variety of reasons. One, there was the issue of time. Justin was putting in several hours at work so didn't have much time personally to commit to the project. I had just more or less taken over Alchemy Game Studeo's projects so had a fairly full plate already. So it was clear from the outset both of us didn't really have the time for it. Second, neither of us had the original source code. Another developer was creating the game for BSC, and when he quit he tchose to take the source code with him. As a result we had nothing to start with. We would have started from scratch which neither of us were inclined to do with our personal work schedules. Third, it was Justin's project so he would be the lead developer calling the shots on the project. Personally I like being in charge of the coding and admit I have a big ego when it comes to programming. I am proud of what I do, and freely admit it. However, I would have had to take a back seat on this project, and given my ego i don't think I would have been completely happy in the arrangement after all. Finally, there was the issue that programming wise we were not completely compatible. Justin's strengths lie in Visual Basic and Visual Basic .NET where mine tend to be in languages like C++, C#, and Java. I'm certain we could have worked this outsince I have some experience programming in Visual Basic languages, but I don't use the language much for my own projects. As a result if I would have had to work on the project in Visual Basic .NET I could probably have done it, but it wouldn't be my best programming wise. I'd likely have to look up this or that in the MSDN library to remind myself of how to do this or that in VB. Anyway, as it turned out we decided not to go there. Neither of us had the time to work on the project, and we had our differences of opinion on how to proceed with programming the game. It was a nice thought, but wasn't practical for either of us. Che wrote: regarding the idea of developers teaming up, it is a great idea in theory, but a diffficult one to put into practice in reality. every developer i have talked to without exception, myself included have large egos and set ways of doing things, this would be a serious problem i think. secondly, deciding how to whack up the proceeds would be a huge issue. lastly, all involved would have to agree on a language to use for programming, which may or may not be a big problem depending on folks involved. anyhow, if some developers can get something done as a group, i'm all for it. but i know as for myself, i work better alone, where the vision is one, all problems as well as successes are also mine alone to deal with, and if something is screwed up, i have nobody to blame but myself. i think this could work out if everyone agreed on the outline of the project, and designed things modularly so each programmer would have their own little corner to work on, which could be intergrated into the whole later on. once again, easier said than done. later che --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
Or you could do what Che did for Rail Racer and give players the option of using their own music via WinAmp. I never did that myself because the music got too distracting and I couldn't hear ART. Actually if Angel and my plans work out we'll probably do that for a lot of our games, particularly if we develop any sports type titles. And that's not entirely out of the question despite my not being a sports fan. If I do this I want to appeal to as many people as I possibly can. Giving players the option and a means to use their own music might be one way to do that. It also means you're less likely to get sued for selling copyrighted material, which you very well could if you bundled copyrighted music with your game. You have acquired the skill of Weaponry Theremin. Your current level of mastery is 10 Apprentice. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 5:17 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle Hi, When it comes to choosing game music a developer must always keep his target audience in mind. Not everyone likes the so-called "up to date" music you speak of. I know several people who absolutely hate hip-hop and I know a few people who think it is the best music on earth. I personally dislike hip-hop, I am an 80's rock fan myself, so I would not be inclined to include that sort of music in my games. One way to resolve this problem is for a developer to use music that is acceptable to just about everyone such as by using cinematic music tracks. I've got plenty of mainstream games here that use cinematic music tracks like Star Wars, Tomb Raider, Indiana Jones, Star Trek Elite Force I and Elite Force II, etc. The music is something that is there and doesn't disrupt your concentration while playing. Now, could you imagine playing something like Star Trek Elite Force and instead of the Star Trek cinematic music in the background you have some hip-hop music in the background instead. Not only would it sound completely out of place for that kind of game, but I would find it totally distracting. For me it would kill the mood, and be come a major disruption. Now, let's assume the game was about gang warfair in L.A. Then, I could see some hip-hop music in the game. Something like natural Born Killer would fit right in with the games kill or be killed game play. However, that style of game is completely different from Star Trek. HTH CSF inc. wrote: Your the man, and can't wait for your football game, dude, call me personally.. As for a fighting game. I can only wish, and allot of other blind gamers I know is starving for it.. And what about up to dat music? Rock, Hip - Hop, club, dance.. Come on it's almost 2010.. Later --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
Hi, When it comes to choosing game music a developer must always keep his target audience in mind. Not everyone likes the so-called "up to date" music you speak of. I know several people who absolutely hate hip-hop and I know a few people who think it is the best music on earth. I personally dislike hip-hop, I am an 80's rock fan myself, so I would not be inclined to include that sort of music in my games. One way to resolve this problem is for a developer to use music that is acceptable to just about everyone such as by using cinematic music tracks. I've got plenty of mainstream games here that use cinematic music tracks like Star Wars, Tomb Raider, Indiana Jones, Star Trek Elite Force I and Elite Force II, etc. The music is something that is there and doesn't disrupt your concentration while playing. Now, could you imagine playing something like Star Trek Elite Force and instead of the Star Trek cinematic music in the background you have some hip-hop music in the background instead. Not only would it sound completely out of place for that kind of game, but I would find it totally distracting. For me it would kill the mood, and be come a major disruption. Now, let's assume the game was about gang warfair in L.A. Then, I could see some hip-hop music in the game. Something like natural Born Killer would fit right in with the games kill or be killed game play. However, that style of game is completely different from Star Trek. HTH CSF inc. wrote: Your the man, and can't wait for your football game, dude, call me personally.. As for a fighting game. I can only wish, and allot of other blind gamers I know is starving for it.. And what about up to dat music? Rock, Hip - Hop, club, dance.. Come on it's almost 2010.. Later --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
Ideas themselves, such as general storylines, can't be copyrighted. It's when you start using the names of characters and places that you run the risk of legal trouble. I imagine the main reason people like Phil haven't run into trouble about Sarah and the Castle of Witchcraft and Wizardry, which does use names and locations from copyrighted books, is that we're such a small community. But at the same time that's no guaranteer of safety as THomas found out. You have acquired the skill of Weaponry Theremin. Your current level of mastery is 10 Apprentice. - Original Message - From: "Charles Rivard" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 4:13 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle As for game creation ideas, I think of it this way: How long have games for the blind been produced and by how many companies? Compare this with the number of companies that have been producing games for the sighted and the period of time they have been doing so. Fresh ideas are bound to be hard to come by. It's not because of a lack of creativity. --- Shepherds are the best beasts. - Original Message - From: "Tristan B" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 1:41 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle Hi, Not to take you down, but... Sadly, it seems to me like the sighted come up with every idea that we have before it ever even seemed like an idea. They have millions and still counting of video games released in one country. Thousands for single consoles, sometimes it seems like whatever ideas I think up are copyrighted or used somewhere else. That's just me. I may not have the spark of creativity that others may have, or I may be right. Just my oppinion. Tristan B TrekGames.net Cosmos - TrekGames.net, port 1234. - Original Message - From: "michael barnes" To: Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 3:12 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle i agree with you since i lost my sight that is all i can play is audio games they do remind me of old video games that i enjoy playing but it would be cool to play never before ideals that none of the sighted game maker ever came up with i do wish someone would make a newer version of distnation mars and run for presdinent -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
Hi, Yeah, a game like Civilization or Galaxy Civilization would totally rock. However, as you pointed out that is a rather large task for a one or two man operation. A couple of games I really miss from my sighted days is Mech Warrior and Starcraft. Those were a couple of cool games that have no accessible equivalents currently. There are lots of cool games like that which are old hat for mainstream gamers, but blind gamers haven't even got started with games like that yet. Zachary Kline wrote: Hi, I for one will wholeheartedly agree with this. My personal preference runs more for grand strategy, along the lines of Master of Orion, Civilization, etc. I can currently play both these games somewhat awkwardly via sighted proxy. I wish I didn't have to do it that way. What we need is something like the currently accessible Anacreon Reconstruction with better AI and diplomacy options. Just my two cents here. I know these kinds of games are probably the hardest to program, despite not having any realtime or 3D audio or what have you. All the best, Zack. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
Hi, All too true. In many cases it boils down to the difference between a corporation and a small business. Comparatively speaking none of us accessible developers are in the same league with the mainstream game companies. That is why we really can't compare with the latest and greatest Play Station and XBox titles. The major mainstream game companies have a really large operating budget with teams of developers, graphics designers, story writers, actors, etc to work on a really high quality game product, and had excellent training to start with. The accessible game companies we have are one to three man operations. Most of the developers are self-taught, and learn as they go. They have small operating budgets which means they can't higher a lot of voice talent, buy sounds and music tracks, etc. It is really remarkable what has been done with the resources that have been available to the accessible game developers so far. As you pointed out yourself a tool like the GMA Game engine saves a developer countless hours of development time. The core features of a game such as input handling, sound system, core classes, etc are already in the engine. A developer needs to script the game levels, monsters, etc and bang you have a new game. Once I complete my Genesis engine I'll be similarly able to produce games quickly and with relative ease. My game engine has a level editor that allows me to move the cursor over an area and draw a wall, door, staircase, rope, etc. This obviously saves time since I'm drawing the level with an editor rather than coding it all by hand. Scott Chesworth wrote: Sure, I'd love a huge library of varied titles to choose from as much as the next bored blind guy with a penchant for gaming, but to be blunt, saying "I want this, we need that" doesn't actually do much. For your "I want this, we need that" to become a reality, the fact is that somebody has got to sit down and put in the hours of story creation, game design, and hard graft coding to make the product. The reason that people use the GMA engine seems to be that it's stable and will save them hundreds of hours of building their own from scratch. The reason that we're lacking variation is that a developer with a great imagination, top writing skills, a knack for inivative usability, bags of skill at writing code, and tons of time to pour into all those things and probably some others I've missed hasn't materialised yet. The creation of mainstream titles has that work load spread across huge teams of people in the cases of the games you mentioned, most of the time we're talking about whole teams for each specific area. Every one of those people gets paid full time to do it, has an actual budget to work with, and has probably fought pretty hard to be doing the job they're doing. Maybe you're actually the developer we need having read all that? I know I'm not. I skated over a few points about graphics etc because they were... well... a bit ridiculous. Sorry it's slightly ranty, I've just had a surprising hour of discovering how much playability there is left in the games I own now I've switched away from the keyboard and I don't like seeing the good developers we actually do have being put down much. Scott --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
well to tell you the truth there are not so many big shots now. in fact nothing has made the headlines of late. no big company has released anything lately that has hit the lines either my friend that is sighted says he does pick the odd bit up but its not as bussy as it was like a year or 2 back. At 08:41 a.m. 15/08/2009, you wrote: >Hi, >Not to take you down, but... > >Sadly, it seems to me like the sighted come up with every idea that we have >before it ever even seemed like an idea. They have millions and still counting >of video games released in one country. Thousands for single consoles, >sometimes it seems like whatever ideas I think up are copyrighted or used >somewhere else. > >That's just me. I may not have the spark of creativity that others may have, >or I may be right. Just my oppinion. > >Tristan B > >TrekGames.net > >Cosmos - >TrekGames.net, port 1234. > >- Original Message - From: "michael barnes" >To: >Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 3:12 PM >Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle > > >>i agree with you since i lost my sight that is all i can play is audio games >>they do remind me of old video games that i enjoy playing but it would be >>cool to play never before ideals that none of the sighted game maker ever >>came up with i do wish someone would make a newer version of distnation mars >>and run for presdinent >> >>-- >>Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >>www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >> >>--- >>Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org >>If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. >>You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >>http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >>All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >>http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. >>If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, >>please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > > >--- >Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org >If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. >You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. >If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, >please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
As for game creation ideas, I think of it this way: How long have games for the blind been produced and by how many companies? Compare this with the number of companies that have been producing games for the sighted and the period of time they have been doing so. Fresh ideas are bound to be hard to come by. It's not because of a lack of creativity. --- Shepherds are the best beasts. - Original Message - From: "Tristan B" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 1:41 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle Hi, Not to take you down, but... Sadly, it seems to me like the sighted come up with every idea that we have before it ever even seemed like an idea. They have millions and still counting of video games released in one country. Thousands for single consoles, sometimes it seems like whatever ideas I think up are copyrighted or used somewhere else. That's just me. I may not have the spark of creativity that others may have, or I may be right. Just my oppinion. Tristan B TrekGames.net Cosmos - TrekGames.net, port 1234. - Original Message - From: "michael barnes" To: Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 3:12 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle i agree with you since i lost my sight that is all i can play is audio games they do remind me of old video games that i enjoy playing but it would be cool to play never before ideals that none of the sighted game maker ever came up with i do wish someone would make a newer version of distnation mars and run for presdinent -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
Hi, Not to take you down, but... Sadly, it seems to me like the sighted come up with every idea that we have before it ever even seemed like an idea. They have millions and still counting of video games released in one country. Thousands for single consoles, sometimes it seems like whatever ideas I think up are copyrighted or used somewhere else. That's just me. I may not have the spark of creativity that others may have, or I may be right. Just my oppinion. Tristan B TrekGames.net Cosmos - TrekGames.net, port 1234. - Original Message - From: "michael barnes" To: Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 3:12 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle i agree with you since i lost my sight that is all i can play is audio games they do remind me of old video games that i enjoy playing but it would be cool to play never before ideals that none of the sighted game maker ever came up with i do wish someone would make a newer version of distnation mars and run for presdinent -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
totally agree with you there. RPG's are my favorite, or close to it. That's why I have started in coding my own MOO, which is a type of MUD -- on my MUD I enforce being "in-character", so the RP gets very intensive, at times. I also like how adventurous MUDS and other text-games can seem at times. That's why they call the older text games text-adventures, I would imagine. - Original Message - From: "James Howard" To: "Charles Rivard" ; "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 1:47 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle I'll admit, I'm not into audio games that much, because of the simple fact, they're like some say, not really inovative. I don't know about rail racer, cause I haven't ried it yet, but I'm planning on doing so. If I do play any audio games, I only stick to the ones that go online, thats the biggest threal I get out of them right now. I go with alot of people said, I would love to see more complex stuff, real rpgs, just to name a certain type I like. but if I game was more complex, had more of a plot, and alot more involved, I'd be more into playing it. I enjoy the stuff Che has done with the online card stuff, I'm sort of hooked on that. On 8/14/09, Charles Rivard wrote: I'll bet that technical support for a game that was created by a bunch of different developers would be a mess, too. --- Shepherds are the best beasts. - Original Message ----- From: "Che" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 11:48 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle regarding the idea of developers teaming up, it is a great idea in theory, but a diffficult one to put into practice in reality. every developer i have talked to without exception, myself included have large egos and set ways of doing things, this would be a serious problem i think. secondly, deciding how to whack up the proceeds would be a huge issue. lastly, all involved would have to agree on a language to use for programming, which may or may not be a big problem depending on folks involved. anyhow, if some developers can get something done as a group, i'm all for it. but i know as for myself, i work better alone, where the vision is one, all problems as well as successes are also mine alone to deal with, and if something is screwed up, i have nobody to blame but myself. i think this could work out if everyone agreed on the outline of the project, and designed things modularly so each programmer would have their own little corner to work on, which could be intergrated into the whole later on. once again, easier said than done. later che - Original Message - From: "william lomas" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 1:31 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle it will be interesting though to be fair, to see what draconis have up their sleives. i thought 2009 was the year for draconis, but nothing as of yet? On 14 Aug 2009, at 07:29, Thomas Ward wrote: Hi, Well said. I too also feel as though the accessible games we have are a bit disappointing. No disrespect to my fellow game developers, but there really isn't anything that is really new or innovative to speak of besides Rail Racer. For the most part accessible games tend to fall into two catagories. Either they are simple board and card games, or an arcade game type theme. Personally, I find the options rather limitting compared to what was available to me before I lost my sight, and is the main reason I began writing accesible games myself. As for the GMA engine I have to disagree with you. Besides the fact it is a bit old it still is one of the best tools an accessible developer can use. It is an FPS game engine, and in the right hands it could be used to create some killer accessible games. We have already seen what it can do with Shades of Doom and Tank Commander, and I think with some updates it should be able to create games more or less on par with Star Trek Elite Force, Star Wars Jedi Knight, etc. In some respects it isn't the fault of the tool here, but perhaps it is the developer's lack of imagination, creativity, or experience with full blown FPS games here. As for the Star Wars game I was working on I had to put that project on hold for a couple of reasons. First, I am still trying to work with Lucas Film on obtaining a Star Wars license. Second, when Alchemy closed up I took over their games and projects which I want to complete before returning to my own original projects. CSF inc. wrote: With the current game circle we have as blind gamers, it's disappointing; There are interesting games we play but very few; other games are not accessible to certain computers and operating systems; others are so simple and plain, for some of us
Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
try radio shack and the olympus series; excellent, hit a button and pull and the USB exposes itself, plug right into your port and Wham! For gaming the quality is great, the audio files can be transferred easily and enhanced with effects or whatever you like; great to tape live sounds for any background of games.. - Original Message - From: "shaun everiss" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 1:41 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle well I have always accepted we will always be behind the sighted, no way in fridays that we will ever catch up. and we either catch up or try to adapt. I have the same issue with a voice recorder, I use soni as a prefured recorder as they record in a format meaning better space for recording and then convert for playback. my recorder I used to use is quite accessible, but lately it has died the other I have is semi accessible but the recorder itself is not so basic things only and hmph. Am getting another later to replace the other broke one. this will again not be accessible but if the computer control is then I will be in luck. if it is not I have older software which should work but ofcause that means I probably won't have the latest features. its the nature of the beast. At 02:48 a.m. 15/08/2009, you wrote: Its pretty sad, if I must say so myself, because gamers are basicly just shooting themselves in the foot. They ask for enw games, then they complain. Not pointing fingers here, but its what I've noticed. Tristan B TrekGames.net Cosmos - TrekGames.net, port 1234. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Che" ; "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 2:51 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle Hi Che, I know the feeling. I'm not sure why but simple and easy games appears to be what sells in the accessible games market. As many people know one of my plans will be to create a full blown 3d game engine, as in actual 3d levels with 3d objects, 3d movement, as well as 3d audio support. No sooner did i mention my plans I got various comments to the effect that anything I made using it would be "too hard" even though they never seen the final product yet. One of the things that bothered me was some people immediately tried to tell me that because they have problems with Audioquake and Technoshock they absolutely know that they couldn't play any of my games. They didn't seam to consider the fact that with Audioquake accessibility is poorly implemented, and because it is a modified version of Quake it wasn't designed from the ground up for a blind player. Accessibility is an add on, and there could be a lot more done to it to provide accessibility. Technoshock also has some accessibility issues, that make it harder than say Shades of Doom to play, and i feel accessibility could b done better in that game. I've seen what works and what doesn't and I'd use that experience plus my own blindness to work out any and all accessibility problems that might crop up. Anyway, the bottom line is now and then we see a thread like this where someone suggests coming up with something new, something different, something more mainstream, and when a developer tries to do that, come up with something truly amazing like Rail Racer, the complaints thatit is too hard come rolling in. As a developer we really can't win. No matter if we do something easy or something new and slightly challenging someone is going to complain. Che wrote: I agree with ya man, I tried something different with rail racer, and I suppose it was somewhat successful, but i got lots of complaints that it was too complicated to play. folks complain if it is too easy, if it is too hard, if it takes too much practice to master, blah blah blah. just can't please all the folks all the time. next i am doing an online playable football game, driven with mouse support, custom plays, online season play against human opponents, high end sound effects, etc. . I was going to do a really involved fighting game as posted on list here, but didn't get much feedback on it, and didn't want to spend the next 18 months on something that wasn't going to sell, especially such an ambitious project. I think the folks that would have enjoyed the online fighting game would have really enjoyed it a lot, as those that play rail racer constantly do, but there just aren't enough of them out there to justify the time spent. you can check the archives for details. the project might still get done, but it will have to wait. I think the masses want simple and easy, and those kind of games seem to sell the best. troop n em sold a lot of copies, and at its core, its just a simple shoot em up. anyhow, i want a killer football game myself, so I'm gonna make one. if
Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
yes a fighting game would be cool i wish someone would make a mortal kombat game like the old ones not like the ones on ps2 -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
i agree with you since i lost my sight that is all i can play is audio games they do remind me of old video games that i enjoy playing but it would be cool to play never before ideals that none of the sighted game maker ever came up with i do wish someone would make a newer version of distnation mars and run for presdinent -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
well I am in pkd, which has piter mach in it. At least from the projects I run some of them say this. no official site yet though all there is is bits and bobs some of which I will comment on at some point. At 06:07 a.m. 15/08/2009, you wrote: >I'll bet that technical support for a game that was created by a bunch of >different developers would be a mess, too. >--- >Shepherds are the best beasts. >- Original Message - From: "Che" >To: "Gamers Discussion list" >Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 11:48 PM >Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle > > >>regarding the idea of developers teaming up, it is a great idea in theory, >>but a diffficult one to put into practice in reality. >> every developer i have talked to without exception, myself included have >> large egos and set ways of doing things, this would be a serious problem i >> think. >>secondly, deciding how to whack up the proceeds would be a huge issue. >> lastly, all involved would have to agree on a language to use for >> programming, which may or may not be a big problem depending on folks >> involved. >>anyhow, if some developers can get something done as a group, i'm all for it. >>but i know as for myself, i work better alone, where the vision is one, all >>problems as well as successes are also mine alone to deal with, and if >>something is screwed up, i have nobody to blame but myself. >> i think this could work out if everyone agreed on the outline of the >> project, and designed things modularly so each programmer would have their >> own little corner to work on, which could be intergrated into the whole >> later on. once again, easier said than done. >>later >>che >> >>- Original Message - From: "william lomas" >> >>To: "Gamers Discussion list" >>Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 1:31 AM >>Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle >> >> >>>it will be interesting though to be fair, to see what draconis have up their >>>sleives. i thought 2009 was the year for draconis, but nothing as of yet? >>> >>>On 14 Aug 2009, at 07:29, Thomas Ward wrote: >>> >>>>Hi, >>>>Well said. I too also feel as though the accessible games we have are a >>>>bit disappointing. No disrespect to my fellow game developers, but there >>>>really isn't anything that is really new or innovative to speak of besides >>>>Rail Racer. >>>>For the most part accessible games tend to fall into two catagories. Either >>>>they are simple board and card games, or an arcade game type theme. >>>>Personally, I find the options rather limitting compared to what was >>>>available to me before I lost my sight, and is the main reason I began >>>>writing accesible games myself. >>>>As for the GMA engine I have to disagree with you. Besides the fact it is >>>>a bit old it still is one of the best tools an accessible developer can >>>>use. It is an FPS game engine, and in the right hands it could be used to >>>>create some killer accessible games. We have already seen what it can do >>>>with Shades of Doom and Tank Commander, and I think with some updates it >>>>should be able to create games more or less on par with Star Trek Elite >>>>Force, Star Wars Jedi Knight, etc. In some respects it isn't the fault of >>>>the tool here, but perhaps it is the developer's lack of imagination, >>>>creativity, or experience with full blown FPS games here. >>>>As for the Star Wars game I was working on I had to put that project on >>>>hold for a couple of reasons. First, I am still trying to work with Lucas >>>>Film on obtaining a Star Wars license. Second, when Alchemy closed up I >>>>took over their games and projects which I want to complete before >>>>returning to my own original projects. >>>> >>>>CSF inc. wrote: >>>>>With the current game circle we have as blind gamers, it's disappointing; >>>>>There are interesting games we play but very few; other games are not >>>>>accessible to certain computers and operating systems; others are so >>>>>simple and plain, for some of us who has played "regular games," it's >>>>>disheartening; Effort should be made into making games more involved, >>>>>more ideas "ie stop making games off of GMA's frame work," There is only >>>>>1 Shades,
Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
well I have always accepted we will always be behind the sighted, no way in fridays that we will ever catch up. and we either catch up or try to adapt. I have the same issue with a voice recorder, I use soni as a prefured recorder as they record in a format meaning better space for recording and then convert for playback. my recorder I used to use is quite accessible, but lately it has died the other I have is semi accessible but the recorder itself is not so basic things only and hmph. Am getting another later to replace the other broke one. this will again not be accessible but if the computer control is then I will be in luck. if it is not I have older software which should work but ofcause that means I probably won't have the latest features. its the nature of the beast. At 02:48 a.m. 15/08/2009, you wrote: >Its pretty sad, if I must say so myself, because gamers are basicly just >shooting themselves in the foot. > >They ask for enw games, then they complain. > >Not pointing fingers here, but its what I've noticed. >Tristan B > >TrekGames.net > >Cosmos - >TrekGames.net, port 1234. > >- Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" >To: "Che" ; "Gamers Discussion list" > >Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 2:51 AM >Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle > > >>Hi Che, >>I know the feeling. I'm not sure why but simple and easy games appears to be >>what sells in the accessible games market. As many people know one of my >>plans will be to create a full blown 3d game engine, as in actual 3d levels >>with 3d objects, 3d movement, as well as 3d audio support. No sooner did i >>mention my plans I got various comments to the effect that anything I made >>using it would be "too hard" even though they never seen the final product >>yet. >>One of the things that bothered me was some people immediately tried to tell >>me that because they have problems with Audioquake and Technoshock they >>absolutely know that they couldn't play any of my games. They didn't seam to >>consider the fact that with Audioquake accessibility is poorly implemented, >>and because it is a modified version of Quake it wasn't designed from the >>ground up for a blind player. Accessibility is an add on, and there could be >>a lot more done to it to provide accessibility. Technoshock also has some >>accessibility issues, that make it harder than say Shades of Doom to play, >>and i feel accessibility could b done better in that game. I've seen what >>works and what doesn't and I'd use that experience plus my own blindness to >>work out any and all accessibility problems that might crop up. >>Anyway, the bottom line is now and then we see a thread like this where >>someone suggests coming up with something new, something different, something >>more mainstream, and when a developer tries to do that, come up with >>something truly amazing like Rail Racer, the complaints thatit is too hard >>come rolling in. As a developer we really can't win. No matter if we do >>something easy or something new and slightly challenging someone is going to >>complain. >> >> >>Che wrote: >>>I agree with ya man, >>> I tried something different with rail racer, and I suppose it was somewhat >>> successful, but i got lots of complaints that it was too complicated to >>> play. >>> folks complain if it is too easy, if it is too hard, if it takes too much >>> practice to master, blah blah blah. just can't please all the folks all the >>> time. >>> next i am doing an online playable football game, driven with mouse >>> support, custom plays, online season play against human opponents, high end >>> sound effects, etc. . I was going to do a really involved fighting game as >>> posted on list here, but didn't get much feedback on it, and didn't want to >>> spend the next 18 months on something that wasn't going to sell, especially >>> such an ambitious project. I think the folks that would have enjoyed the >>> online fighting game would have really enjoyed it a lot, as those that play >>> rail racer constantly do, but there just aren't enough of them out there to >>> justify the time spent. >>>you can check the archives for details. the project might still get done, >>>but it will have to wait. >>>I think the masses want simple and easy, and those kind of games seem to >>>sell the best. troop n em sold a lot of copies, and at its core, its just a >>>simple shoot em up. >>> anyhow, i wa
Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
Personally I could care less about online play. I don't know, I've just never had much interest in it. But I imagine my games will probably include the option at some point even if not right away. You have acquired the skill of Weaponry Theremin. Your current level of mastery is 10 Apprentice. - Original Message - From: "James Howard" To: "Charles Rivard" ; "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 10:47 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle I'll admit, I'm not into audio games that much, because of the simple fact, they're like some say, not really inovative. I don't know about rail racer, cause I haven't ried it yet, but I'm planning on doing so. If I do play any audio games, I only stick to the ones that go online, thats the biggest threal I get out of them right now. I go with alot of people said, I would love to see more complex stuff, real rpgs, just to name a certain type I like. but if I game was more complex, had more of a plot, and alot more involved, I'd be more into playing it. I enjoy the stuff Che has done with the online card stuff, I'm sort of hooked on that. On 8/14/09, Charles Rivard wrote: I'll bet that technical support for a game that was created by a bunch of different developers would be a mess, too. --- Shepherds are the best beasts. - Original Message - From: "Che" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 11:48 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle regarding the idea of developers teaming up, it is a great idea in theory, but a diffficult one to put into practice in reality. every developer i have talked to without exception, myself included have large egos and set ways of doing things, this would be a serious problem i think. secondly, deciding how to whack up the proceeds would be a huge issue. lastly, all involved would have to agree on a language to use for programming, which may or may not be a big problem depending on folks involved. anyhow, if some developers can get something done as a group, i'm all for it. but i know as for myself, i work better alone, where the vision is one, all problems as well as successes are also mine alone to deal with, and if something is screwed up, i have nobody to blame but myself. i think this could work out if everyone agreed on the outline of the project, and designed things modularly so each programmer would have their own little corner to work on, which could be intergrated into the whole later on. once again, easier said than done. later che - Original Message - From: "william lomas" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 1:31 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle it will be interesting though to be fair, to see what draconis have up their sleives. i thought 2009 was the year for draconis, but nothing as of yet? On 14 Aug 2009, at 07:29, Thomas Ward wrote: Hi, Well said. I too also feel as though the accessible games we have are a bit disappointing. No disrespect to my fellow game developers, but there really isn't anything that is really new or innovative to speak of besides Rail Racer. For the most part accessible games tend to fall into two catagories. Either they are simple board and card games, or an arcade game type theme. Personally, I find the options rather limitting compared to what was available to me before I lost my sight, and is the main reason I began writing accesible games myself. As for the GMA engine I have to disagree with you. Besides the fact it is a bit old it still is one of the best tools an accessible developer can use. It is an FPS game engine, and in the right hands it could be used to create some killer accessible games. We have already seen what it can do with Shades of Doom and Tank Commander, and I think with some updates it should be able to create games more or less on par with Star Trek Elite Force, Star Wars Jedi Knight, etc. In some respects it isn't the fault of the tool here, but perhaps it is the developer's lack of imagination, creativity, or experience with full blown FPS games here. As for the Star Wars game I was working on I had to put that project on hold for a couple of reasons. First, I am still trying to work with Lucas Film on obtaining a Star Wars license. Second, when Alchemy closed up I took over their games and projects which I want to complete before returning to my own original projects. CSF inc. wrote: With the current game circle we have as blind gamers, it's disappointing; There are interesting games we play but very few; other games are not accessible to certain computers and operating systems; others are so simple and plain, for some of us who has played "regular games," it's disheartening; Effort should be made into m
Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
I'll admit, I'm not into audio games that much, because of the simple fact, they're like some say, not really inovative. I don't know about rail racer, cause I haven't ried it yet, but I'm planning on doing so. If I do play any audio games, I only stick to the ones that go online, thats the biggest threal I get out of them right now. I go with alot of people said, I would love to see more complex stuff, real rpgs, just to name a certain type I like. but if I game was more complex, had more of a plot, and alot more involved, I'd be more into playing it. I enjoy the stuff Che has done with the online card stuff, I'm sort of hooked on that. On 8/14/09, Charles Rivard wrote: > I'll bet that technical support for a game that was created by a bunch of > different developers would be a mess, too. > --- > Shepherds are the best beasts. > - Original Message - > From: "Che" > To: "Gamers Discussion list" > Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 11:48 PM > Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle > > >> regarding the idea of developers teaming up, it is a great idea in theory, >> >> but a diffficult one to put into practice in reality. >> every developer i have talked to without exception, myself included have >> large egos and set ways of doing things, this would be a serious problem i >> >> think. >> secondly, deciding how to whack up the proceeds would be a huge issue. >> lastly, all involved would have to agree on a language to use for >> programming, which may or may not be a big problem depending on folks >> involved. >> anyhow, if some developers can get something done as a group, i'm all for >> it. but i know as for myself, i work better alone, where the vision is >> one, all problems as well as successes are also mine alone to deal with, >> and if something is screwed up, i have nobody to blame but myself. >> i think this could work out if everyone agreed on the outline of the >> project, and designed things modularly so each programmer would have their >> >> own little corner to work on, which could be intergrated into the whole >> later on. once again, easier said than done. >> later >> che >> >> - Original Message - >> From: "william lomas" >> To: "Gamers Discussion list" >> Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 1:31 AM >> Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle >> >> >>> it will be interesting though to be fair, to see what draconis have up >>> their sleives. i thought 2009 was the year for draconis, but nothing as >>> of yet? >>> >>> On 14 Aug 2009, at 07:29, Thomas Ward wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> Well said. I too also feel as though the accessible games we have are a >>>> >>>> bit disappointing. No disrespect to my fellow game developers, but >>>> there really isn't anything that is really new or innovative to speak >>>> of besides Rail Racer. >>>> For the most part accessible games tend to fall into two catagories. >>>> Either they are simple board and card games, or an arcade game type >>>> theme. Personally, I find the options rather limitting compared to what >>>> >>>> was available to me before I lost my sight, and is the main reason I >>>> began writing accesible games myself. >>>> As for the GMA engine I have to disagree with you. Besides the fact it >>>> is a bit old it still is one of the best tools an accessible developer >>>> can use. It is an FPS game engine, and in the right hands it could be >>>> used to create some killer accessible games. We have already seen what >>>> it can do with Shades of Doom and Tank Commander, and I think with some >>>> >>>> updates it should be able to create games more or less on par with Star >>>> >>>> Trek Elite Force, Star Wars Jedi Knight, etc. In some respects it >>>> isn't the fault of the tool here, but perhaps it is the developer's >>>> lack of imagination, creativity, or experience with full blown FPS >>>> games here. >>>> As for the Star Wars game I was working on I had to put that project on >>>> >>>> hold for a couple of reasons. First, I am still trying to work with >>>> Lucas Film on obtaining a Star Wars license. Second, when Alchemy >>>> closed up I took over their games and projects which I want to complete >>>> >>>> before returning to my own original projects. >>>
Re: [Audyssey] the real game circle
Hi, I wish liteTech interactive would come back, the trailor for their star wars game sounded pretty cool. Josh Join me on klango at www.klango.net visit and sign my petition at: http://www.petitiononline.com/coda1234/petition.html and visit my blog at: http://jkenn337.klangoblog.net follow me on twitter at http://www.twitter.com/jkenn337 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
I'll bet that technical support for a game that was created by a bunch of different developers would be a mess, too. --- Shepherds are the best beasts. - Original Message - From: "Che" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 11:48 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle regarding the idea of developers teaming up, it is a great idea in theory, but a diffficult one to put into practice in reality. every developer i have talked to without exception, myself included have large egos and set ways of doing things, this would be a serious problem i think. secondly, deciding how to whack up the proceeds would be a huge issue. lastly, all involved would have to agree on a language to use for programming, which may or may not be a big problem depending on folks involved. anyhow, if some developers can get something done as a group, i'm all for it. but i know as for myself, i work better alone, where the vision is one, all problems as well as successes are also mine alone to deal with, and if something is screwed up, i have nobody to blame but myself. i think this could work out if everyone agreed on the outline of the project, and designed things modularly so each programmer would have their own little corner to work on, which could be intergrated into the whole later on. once again, easier said than done. later che - Original Message - From: "william lomas" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 1:31 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle it will be interesting though to be fair, to see what draconis have up their sleives. i thought 2009 was the year for draconis, but nothing as of yet? On 14 Aug 2009, at 07:29, Thomas Ward wrote: Hi, Well said. I too also feel as though the accessible games we have are a bit disappointing. No disrespect to my fellow game developers, but there really isn't anything that is really new or innovative to speak of besides Rail Racer. For the most part accessible games tend to fall into two catagories. Either they are simple board and card games, or an arcade game type theme. Personally, I find the options rather limitting compared to what was available to me before I lost my sight, and is the main reason I began writing accesible games myself. As for the GMA engine I have to disagree with you. Besides the fact it is a bit old it still is one of the best tools an accessible developer can use. It is an FPS game engine, and in the right hands it could be used to create some killer accessible games. We have already seen what it can do with Shades of Doom and Tank Commander, and I think with some updates it should be able to create games more or less on par with Star Trek Elite Force, Star Wars Jedi Knight, etc. In some respects it isn't the fault of the tool here, but perhaps it is the developer's lack of imagination, creativity, or experience with full blown FPS games here. As for the Star Wars game I was working on I had to put that project on hold for a couple of reasons. First, I am still trying to work with Lucas Film on obtaining a Star Wars license. Second, when Alchemy closed up I took over their games and projects which I want to complete before returning to my own original projects. CSF inc. wrote: With the current game circle we have as blind gamers, it's disappointing; There are interesting games we play but very few; other games are not accessible to certain computers and operating systems; others are so simple and plain, for some of us who has played "regular games," it's disheartening; Effort should be made into making games more involved, more ideas "ie stop making games off of GMA's frame work," There is only 1 Shades, 1 Tank Commander.. lastly, we need games we can play along with our sighted family like "Soul Caliber". We have no fighting games, no sports games we can play without some A.I. making it not real; even though the 2nd best player in the world in Mortal Combat is Blind!! We should of taken that initiative and created some type of fighting game at least similar to Mortal.. Are blind people not sports fans? would we like to box? run the football? aim the pitch in a baseball game? even fly a F-16 in combat.. Sim's are O.K. I guess, but it takes the control and fun out of the game.. Some will complain about this post, some will agree; the point is We Need More Variety, And Not The Same Games With Different Titles.. What happened to Star Wars Jedi attack? OOh Yeah Baby.. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org . You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be search
Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
Hello, I sure hope it does; it sounds like you and her would make a great game dev team. *grins*. And I agree holeheartedly with your message.. Regards, Tristan B TrekGames.net Cosmos - TrekGames.net, port 1234. - Original Message - From: "Bryan Peterson" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 12:00 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle You're definitely right about that Tristan. Many of us complain about how most games are too easy, which I can definitely agree with, but then when something new comes out or is even mentioned we start whining and snivelling about how it'd be too hard. Take Technoshock for instance. Granted I spent months on Technoshock before I got really frustrated with it, but I saw complaints on the audiogames.net forum within days. Some were quite rude as I recall. But if this business between myself and my girlfriend Angel works out hopefully the AG market will start to see some games we can really be proud of. My girlfriend is a fairly apt programmer I found out and when I mentioned the idea of computer games for the blind she got really excited and wanted us to work together on something. She might even join this list. It's one of the places I referred her to for information. You have acquired the skill of Weaponry Theremin. Your current level of mastery is 10 Apprentice. - Original Message - From: "Tristan B" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 7:48 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle Its pretty sad, if I must say so myself, because gamers are basicly just shooting themselves in the foot. They ask for enw games, then they complain. Not pointing fingers here, but its what I've noticed. Tristan B TrekGames.net Cosmos - TrekGames.net, port 1234. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Che" ; "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 2:51 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle Hi Che, I know the feeling. I'm not sure why but simple and easy games appears to be what sells in the accessible games market. As many people know one of my plans will be to create a full blown 3d game engine, as in actual 3d levels with 3d objects, 3d movement, as well as 3d audio support. No sooner did i mention my plans I got various comments to the effect that anything I made using it would be "too hard" even though they never seen the final product yet. One of the things that bothered me was some people immediately tried to tell me that because they have problems with Audioquake and Technoshock they absolutely know that they couldn't play any of my games. They didn't seam to consider the fact that with Audioquake accessibility is poorly implemented, and because it is a modified version of Quake it wasn't designed from the ground up for a blind player. Accessibility is an add on, and there could be a lot more done to it to provide accessibility. Technoshock also has some accessibility issues, that make it harder than say Shades of Doom to play, and i feel accessibility could b done better in that game. I've seen what works and what doesn't and I'd use that experience plus my own blindness to work out any and all accessibility problems that might crop up. Anyway, the bottom line is now and then we see a thread like this where someone suggests coming up with something new, something different, something more mainstream, and when a developer tries to do that, come up with something truly amazing like Rail Racer, the complaints thatit is too hard come rolling in. As a developer we really can't win. No matter if we do something easy or something new and slightly challenging someone is going to complain. Che wrote: I agree with ya man, I tried something different with rail racer, and I suppose it was somewhat successful, but i got lots of complaints that it was too complicated to play. folks complain if it is too easy, if it is too hard, if it takes too much practice to master, blah blah blah. just can't please all the folks all the time. next i am doing an online playable football game, driven with mouse support, custom plays, online season play against human opponents, high end sound effects, etc. . I was going to do a really involved fighting game as posted on list here, but didn't get much feedback on it, and didn't want to spend the next 18 months on something that wasn't going to sell, especially such an ambitious project. I think the folks that would have enjoyed the online fighting game would have really enjoyed it a lot, as those that play rail racer constantly do, but there just aren't enough of them out there to justify the time spent. you can check the archives for details. the project might still get done, but it will have to wait
Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
You're definitely right about that Tristan. Many of us complain about how most games are too easy, which I can definitely agree with, but then when something new comes out or is even mentioned we start whining and snivelling about how it'd be too hard. Take Technoshock for instance. Granted I spent months on Technoshock before I got really frustrated with it, but I saw complaints on the audiogames.net forum within days. Some were quite rude as I recall. But if this business between myself and my girlfriend Angel works out hopefully the AG market will start to see some games we can really be proud of. My girlfriend is a fairly apt programmer I found out and when I mentioned the idea of computer games for the blind she got really excited and wanted us to work together on something. She might even join this list. It's one of the places I referred her to for information. You have acquired the skill of Weaponry Theremin. Your current level of mastery is 10 Apprentice. - Original Message - From: "Tristan B" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 7:48 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle Its pretty sad, if I must say so myself, because gamers are basicly just shooting themselves in the foot. They ask for enw games, then they complain. Not pointing fingers here, but its what I've noticed. Tristan B TrekGames.net Cosmos - TrekGames.net, port 1234. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Che" ; "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 2:51 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle Hi Che, I know the feeling. I'm not sure why but simple and easy games appears to be what sells in the accessible games market. As many people know one of my plans will be to create a full blown 3d game engine, as in actual 3d levels with 3d objects, 3d movement, as well as 3d audio support. No sooner did i mention my plans I got various comments to the effect that anything I made using it would be "too hard" even though they never seen the final product yet. One of the things that bothered me was some people immediately tried to tell me that because they have problems with Audioquake and Technoshock they absolutely know that they couldn't play any of my games. They didn't seam to consider the fact that with Audioquake accessibility is poorly implemented, and because it is a modified version of Quake it wasn't designed from the ground up for a blind player. Accessibility is an add on, and there could be a lot more done to it to provide accessibility. Technoshock also has some accessibility issues, that make it harder than say Shades of Doom to play, and i feel accessibility could b done better in that game. I've seen what works and what doesn't and I'd use that experience plus my own blindness to work out any and all accessibility problems that might crop up. Anyway, the bottom line is now and then we see a thread like this where someone suggests coming up with something new, something different, something more mainstream, and when a developer tries to do that, come up with something truly amazing like Rail Racer, the complaints thatit is too hard come rolling in. As a developer we really can't win. No matter if we do something easy or something new and slightly challenging someone is going to complain. Che wrote: I agree with ya man, I tried something different with rail racer, and I suppose it was somewhat successful, but i got lots of complaints that it was too complicated to play. folks complain if it is too easy, if it is too hard, if it takes too much practice to master, blah blah blah. just can't please all the folks all the time. next i am doing an online playable football game, driven with mouse support, custom plays, online season play against human opponents, high end sound effects, etc. . I was going to do a really involved fighting game as posted on list here, but didn't get much feedback on it, and didn't want to spend the next 18 months on something that wasn't going to sell, especially such an ambitious project. I think the folks that would have enjoyed the online fighting game would have really enjoyed it a lot, as those that play rail racer constantly do, but there just aren't enough of them out there to justify the time spent. you can check the archives for details. the project might still get done, but it will have to wait. I think the masses want simple and easy, and those kind of games seem to sell the best. troop n em sold a lot of copies, and at its core, its just a simple shoot em up. anyhow, i want a killer football game myself, so I'm gonna make one. if folks like it fine, if not, whatever, you got to go with what yer passionate about, or the results come out luke warm at best. as for other developers out
Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
Its pretty sad, if I must say so myself, because gamers are basicly just shooting themselves in the foot. They ask for enw games, then they complain. Not pointing fingers here, but its what I've noticed. Tristan B TrekGames.net Cosmos - TrekGames.net, port 1234. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Che" ; "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 2:51 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle Hi Che, I know the feeling. I'm not sure why but simple and easy games appears to be what sells in the accessible games market. As many people know one of my plans will be to create a full blown 3d game engine, as in actual 3d levels with 3d objects, 3d movement, as well as 3d audio support. No sooner did i mention my plans I got various comments to the effect that anything I made using it would be "too hard" even though they never seen the final product yet. One of the things that bothered me was some people immediately tried to tell me that because they have problems with Audioquake and Technoshock they absolutely know that they couldn't play any of my games. They didn't seam to consider the fact that with Audioquake accessibility is poorly implemented, and because it is a modified version of Quake it wasn't designed from the ground up for a blind player. Accessibility is an add on, and there could be a lot more done to it to provide accessibility. Technoshock also has some accessibility issues, that make it harder than say Shades of Doom to play, and i feel accessibility could b done better in that game. I've seen what works and what doesn't and I'd use that experience plus my own blindness to work out any and all accessibility problems that might crop up. Anyway, the bottom line is now and then we see a thread like this where someone suggests coming up with something new, something different, something more mainstream, and when a developer tries to do that, come up with something truly amazing like Rail Racer, the complaints thatit is too hard come rolling in. As a developer we really can't win. No matter if we do something easy or something new and slightly challenging someone is going to complain. Che wrote: I agree with ya man, I tried something different with rail racer, and I suppose it was somewhat successful, but i got lots of complaints that it was too complicated to play. folks complain if it is too easy, if it is too hard, if it takes too much practice to master, blah blah blah. just can't please all the folks all the time. next i am doing an online playable football game, driven with mouse support, custom plays, online season play against human opponents, high end sound effects, etc. . I was going to do a really involved fighting game as posted on list here, but didn't get much feedback on it, and didn't want to spend the next 18 months on something that wasn't going to sell, especially such an ambitious project. I think the folks that would have enjoyed the online fighting game would have really enjoyed it a lot, as those that play rail racer constantly do, but there just aren't enough of them out there to justify the time spent. you can check the archives for details. the project might still get done, but it will have to wait. I think the masses want simple and easy, and those kind of games seem to sell the best. troop n em sold a lot of copies, and at its core, its just a simple shoot em up. anyhow, i want a killer football game myself, so I'm gonna make one. if folks like it fine, if not, whatever, you got to go with what yer passionate about, or the results come out luke warm at best. as for other developers out there, i can't comment, they do what they do, and so far innovation hasn't been at the top of any of their lists lately from what i've seen. We can only hope that changes soon. This is not a money making market to spend hundreds and perhaps thousands of hours on a project and make just a few grand on it. you have to love doing it almost as a hobby , or yer in for dissapointment. I set up the card room because I love poker, and also to offset some of my dedicated server costs, and folks that have played have told me they are the best card games out there for the blind, with features not seen anywhere else. But even so, nobody is gonna make a living doing this stuff. i've seen cracked copies of most of the accessible games out there, hosted by fellow blinks. these people are total idiots, not realizing the damage they are doing to the accessible gaming market, but they don't care. i know some of them are reading this, and if you are sharing any cracked games, you should be very ashamed of yourself. in sucha small market, the damage you are doing is immense. Bottom line, if your a fellow developer working on a game now, my hat is off to
Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
Possibly on http://fredshead.info/ - Original Message - From: "CSF inc." To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 9:04 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle I see this situation as a challenge, I feel with correct marketing and advertising of the games the market would expand; NFB, ACB and others could be considered as a avenue of advertisement. Secondly, even paying monthly for a on - line "Digital Marketing," company to push the games for the first few months will expand your profitability. Word of mouth is also a great way and one of the best ways of advertisement; seriously hitting game blogs and forums is a good way to accomplish this.. Just some ideas.. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Che" ; "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 1:51 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle Hi Che, I know the feeling. I'm not sure why but simple and easy games appears to be what sells in the accessible games market. As many people know one of my plans will be to create a full blown 3d game engine, as in actual 3d levels with 3d objects, 3d movement, as well as 3d audio support. No sooner did i mention my plans I got various comments to the effect that anything I made using it would be "too hard" even though they never seen the final product yet. One of the things that bothered me was some people immediately tried to tell me that because they have problems with Audioquake and Technoshock they absolutely know that they couldn't play any of my games. They didn't seam to consider the fact that with Audioquake accessibility is poorly implemented, and because it is a modified version of Quake it wasn't designed from the ground up for a blind player. Accessibility is an add on, and there could be a lot more done to it to provide accessibility. Technoshock also has some accessibility issues, that make it harder than say Shades of Doom to play, and i feel accessibility could b done better in that game. I've seen what works and what doesn't and I'd use that experience plus my own blindness to work out any and all accessibility problems that might crop up. Anyway, the bottom line is now and then we see a thread like this where someone suggests coming up with something new, something different, something more mainstream, and when a developer tries to do that, come up with something truly amazing like Rail Racer, the complaints thatit is too hard come rolling in. As a developer we really can't win. No matter if we do something easy or something new and slightly challenging someone is going to complain. Che wrote: I agree with ya man, I tried something different with rail racer, and I suppose it was somewhat successful, but i got lots of complaints that it was too complicated to play. folks complain if it is too easy, if it is too hard, if it takes too much practice to master, blah blah blah. just can't please all the folks all the time. next i am doing an online playable football game, driven with mouse support, custom plays, online season play against human opponents, high end sound effects, etc. . I was going to do a really involved fighting game as posted on list here, but didn't get much feedback on it, and didn't want to spend the next 18 months on something that wasn't going to sell, especially such an ambitious project. I think the folks that would have enjoyed the online fighting game would have really enjoyed it a lot, as those that play rail racer constantly do, but there just aren't enough of them out there to justify the time spent. you can check the archives for details. the project might still get done, but it will have to wait. I think the masses want simple and easy, and those kind of games seem to sell the best. troop n em sold a lot of copies, and at its core, its just a simple shoot em up. anyhow, i want a killer football game myself, so I'm gonna make one. if folks like it fine, if not, whatever, you got to go with what yer passionate about, or the results come out luke warm at best. as for other developers out there, i can't comment, they do what they do, and so far innovation hasn't been at the top of any of their lists lately from what i've seen. We can only hope that changes soon. This is not a money making market to spend hundreds and perhaps thousands of hours on a project and make just a few grand on it. you have to love doing it almost as a hobby , or yer in for dissapointment. I set up the card room because I love poker, and also to offset some of my dedicated server costs, and folks that have played have told me they are the best card games out there for the blind, with features not seen anywhere else. But even so, nobody is gonna make a living doing this stuff. i've seen cr
Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
Exactly. And since her major in college is computer programming I'm sure she could find others interested in the project. They'd just have to understand that the financial gain for such a project isn't likely to be very large at first if ever. That could be a dealbreaker for a lot of people. Devs teaming up is something we'd have to be careful of though. That's why BSC had to shelve Castle Quest, because the developer they teamed up with wanted the license to distribute the game, and I'm sure there were creative differences as well. You have acquired the skill of Weaponry Theremin. Your current level of mastery is 10 Apprentice. - Original Message - From: "CSF inc." To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 11:18 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle That sounds great and that is the innovation I was talking about.. - Original Message - From: "Bryan Peterson" To: "Che" ; "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 11:07 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle Exactly. My new girlfriend Angel and I have been talking about teaming up to try designing some games since she's apparently a very skilled programmer. She's sighted but when I mentioned the idea of audio gaming she seemed quite fascinated with the idea. So we'll see what happens. We're definitely going to try to develop some more complex games, maybe an RPG or two or something along the lines of the old Castlevania games. You have acquired the skill of Weaponry Theremin. Your current level of mastery is 10 Apprentice. - Original Message ----- From: "Che" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 8:01 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle I agree with ya man, I tried something different with rail racer, and I suppose it was somewhat successful, but i got lots of complaints that it was too complicated to play. folks complain if it is too easy, if it is too hard, if it takes too much practice to master, blah blah blah. just can't please all the folks all the time. next i am doing an online playable football game, driven with mouse support, custom plays, online season play against human opponents, high end sound effects, etc. . I was going to do a really involved fighting game as posted on list here, but didn't get much feedback on it, and didn't want to spend the next 18 months on something that wasn't going to sell, especially such an ambitious project. I think the folks that would have enjoyed the online fighting game would have really enjoyed it a lot, as those that play rail racer constantly do, but there just aren't enough of them out there to justify the time spent. you can check the archives for details. the project might still get done, but it will have to wait. I think the masses want simple and easy, and those kind of games seem to sell the best. troop n em sold a lot of copies, and at its core, its just a simple shoot em up. anyhow, i want a killer football game myself, so I'm gonna make one. if folks like it fine, if not, whatever, you got to go with what yer passionate about, or the results come out luke warm at best. as for other developers out there, i can't comment, they do what they do, and so far innovation hasn't been at the top of any of their lists lately from what i've seen. We can only hope that changes soon. This is not a money making market to spend hundreds and perhaps thousands of hours on a project and make just a few grand on it. you have to love doing it almost as a hobby , or yer in for dissapointment. I set up the card room because I love poker, and also to offset some of my dedicated server costs, and folks that have played have told me they are the best card games out there for the blind, with features not seen anywhere else. But even so, nobody is gonna make a living doing this stuff. i've seen cracked copies of most of the accessible games out there, hosted by fellow blinks. these people are total idiots, not realizing the damage they are doing to the accessible gaming market, but they don't care. i know some of them are reading this, and if you are sharing any cracked games, you should be very ashamed of yourself. in sucha small market, the damage you are doing is immense. Bottom line, if your a fellow developer working on a game now, my hat is off to you, this is a hard task without much reward or thanks, but non developers don't get that and don't seem to care either. But having said that, can't we push the envelope a little bit? Do we really need another shoot em up or arcade action game? hasn't all that been done enough by now? later che --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsu
Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
I see this situation as a challenge, I feel with correct marketing and advertising of the games the market would expand; NFB, ACB and others could be considered as a avenue of advertisement. Secondly, even paying monthly for a on - line "Digital Marketing," company to push the games for the first few months will expand your profitability. Word of mouth is also a great way and one of the best ways of advertisement; seriously hitting game blogs and forums is a good way to accomplish this.. Just some ideas.. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Che" ; "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 1:51 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle Hi Che, I know the feeling. I'm not sure why but simple and easy games appears to be what sells in the accessible games market. As many people know one of my plans will be to create a full blown 3d game engine, as in actual 3d levels with 3d objects, 3d movement, as well as 3d audio support. No sooner did i mention my plans I got various comments to the effect that anything I made using it would be "too hard" even though they never seen the final product yet. One of the things that bothered me was some people immediately tried to tell me that because they have problems with Audioquake and Technoshock they absolutely know that they couldn't play any of my games. They didn't seam to consider the fact that with Audioquake accessibility is poorly implemented, and because it is a modified version of Quake it wasn't designed from the ground up for a blind player. Accessibility is an add on, and there could be a lot more done to it to provide accessibility. Technoshock also has some accessibility issues, that make it harder than say Shades of Doom to play, and i feel accessibility could b done better in that game. I've seen what works and what doesn't and I'd use that experience plus my own blindness to work out any and all accessibility problems that might crop up. Anyway, the bottom line is now and then we see a thread like this where someone suggests coming up with something new, something different, something more mainstream, and when a developer tries to do that, come up with something truly amazing like Rail Racer, the complaints thatit is too hard come rolling in. As a developer we really can't win. No matter if we do something easy or something new and slightly challenging someone is going to complain. Che wrote: I agree with ya man, I tried something different with rail racer, and I suppose it was somewhat successful, but i got lots of complaints that it was too complicated to play. folks complain if it is too easy, if it is too hard, if it takes too much practice to master, blah blah blah. just can't please all the folks all the time. next i am doing an online playable football game, driven with mouse support, custom plays, online season play against human opponents, high end sound effects, etc. . I was going to do a really involved fighting game as posted on list here, but didn't get much feedback on it, and didn't want to spend the next 18 months on something that wasn't going to sell, especially such an ambitious project. I think the folks that would have enjoyed the online fighting game would have really enjoyed it a lot, as those that play rail racer constantly do, but there just aren't enough of them out there to justify the time spent. you can check the archives for details. the project might still get done, but it will have to wait. I think the masses want simple and easy, and those kind of games seem to sell the best. troop n em sold a lot of copies, and at its core, its just a simple shoot em up. anyhow, i want a killer football game myself, so I'm gonna make one. if folks like it fine, if not, whatever, you got to go with what yer passionate about, or the results come out luke warm at best. as for other developers out there, i can't comment, they do what they do, and so far innovation hasn't been at the top of any of their lists lately from what i've seen. We can only hope that changes soon. This is not a money making market to spend hundreds and perhaps thousands of hours on a project and make just a few grand on it. you have to love doing it almost as a hobby , or yer in for dissapointment. I set up the card room because I love poker, and also to offset some of my dedicated server costs, and folks that have played have told me they are the best card games out there for the blind, with features not seen anywhere else. But even so, nobody is gonna make a living doing this stuff. i've seen cracked copies of most of the accessible games out there, hosted by fellow blinks. these people are total idiots, not realizing the damage they are doing to the accessible gaming market, but they don't care. i know som
Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
I agree, and I loved the trailer for Star Wars Jedi Attack.. Hey, you guys do a great job, bottom line.. I know developers are true gamers at the very core and that is what pushes you to make games in general, I just would like to see that 13 year old gamer come back out in the creation of games; Like when I played Coleko Vision for the first time.. Smile - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 1:29 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle Hi, Well said. I too also feel as though the accessible games we have are a bit disappointing. No disrespect to my fellow game developers, but there really isn't anything that is really new or innovative to speak of besides Rail Racer. For the most part accessible games tend to fall into two catagories. Either they are simple board and card games, or an arcade game type theme. Personally, I find the options rather limitting compared to what was available to me before I lost my sight, and is the main reason I began writing accesible games myself. As for the GMA engine I have to disagree with you. Besides the fact it is a bit old it still is one of the best tools an accessible developer can use. It is an FPS game engine, and in the right hands it could be used to create some killer accessible games. We have already seen what it can do with Shades of Doom and Tank Commander, and I think with some updates it should be able to create games more or less on par with Star Trek Elite Force, Star Wars Jedi Knight, etc. In some respects it isn't the fault of the tool here, but perhaps it is the developer's lack of imagination, creativity, or experience with full blown FPS games here. As for the Star Wars game I was working on I had to put that project on hold for a couple of reasons. First, I am still trying to work with Lucas Film on obtaining a Star Wars license. Second, when Alchemy closed up I took over their games and projects which I want to complete before returning to my own original projects. CSF inc. wrote: With the current game circle we have as blind gamers, it's disappointing; There are interesting games we play but very few; other games are not accessible to certain computers and operating systems; others are so simple and plain, for some of us who has played "regular games," it's disheartening; Effort should be made into making games more involved, more ideas "ie stop making games off of GMA's frame work," There is only 1 Shades, 1 Tank Commander.. lastly, we need games we can play along with our sighted family like "Soul Caliber". We have no fighting games, no sports games we can play without some A.I. making it not real; even though the 2nd best player in the world in Mortal Combat is Blind!! We should of taken that initiative and created some type of fighting game at least similar to Mortal.. Are blind people not sports fans? would we like to box? run the football? aim the pitch in a baseball game? even fly a F-16 in combat.. Sim's are O.K. I guess, but it takes the control and fun out of the game.. Some will complain about this post, some will agree; the point is We Need More Variety, And Not The Same Games With Different Titles.. What happened to Star Wars Jedi attack? OOh Yeah Baby.. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
I too am of the pursuation that would quite like to have a fighting game rock my socks off, mainly because I'm too broke to own a console at the moment. Seems to me though having seen some of the PS3 and even the later PS2 titles that it would be a massive project to get it up to current console standard. There are so many games in this genre that are playable to the point of being worth buying on consoles that anything less would seem kinda pointless to me, unless it was ridiculously adddictive in some non-standard way. I think the developer that takes on this project is gonna have a lot on their plate. Without some real innovation or a touch of something nobody is expecting, we're likely to end up with something not dissimilar to Mortal Kombat 3 with talking menues at best. I dunno if I'd buy that, I already own MK3. Not meaning to put a downer on a project that hasn't even started yet, just musing really. Something else I'd be very very interested in would be some innovations to one of the open source musical game projects like frets on fire to make it more accessible. Sure rockband is playable, but proper speech feedback with online play and such would be just the ticket for me. Can't imagine buying a whole console for it, but I can definitely imagine buying the music controllers to hook up to the pc. Scott On 8/14/09, Milos Przic wrote: >Yes, fighting game would be cool, something I have been waiting for since > I first saw an audio game! > - Original Message - > From: "CSF inc." > To: "Che" ; "Gamers Discussion list" > > Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 11:13 PM > Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle > > >> Your the man, and can't wait for your football game, dude, call me >> personally.. As for a fighting game. I can only wish, and allot of other >> blind gamers I know is starving for it.. And what about up to dat music? >> Rock, Hip - Hop, club, dance.. Come on it's almost 2010.. Later >> - Original Message - >> From: "Che" >> To: "Gamers Discussion list" >> Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 10:01 PM >> Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle >> >> >>> I agree with ya man, >>> I tried something different with rail racer, and I suppose it was >>> somewhat successful, but i got lots of complaints that it was too >>> complicated to play. >>> folks complain if it is too easy, if it is too hard, if it takes too >>> much practice to master, blah blah blah. just can't please all the folks >>> all the time. >>> next i am doing an online playable football game, driven with mouse >>> support, custom plays, online season play against human opponents, high >>> end sound effects, etc. . I was going to do a really involved fighting >>> game as posted on list here, but didn't get much feedback on it, and >>> didn't want to spend the next 18 months on something that wasn't going to >>> >>> sell, especially such an ambitious project. I think the folks that would >>> have enjoyed the online fighting game would have really enjoyed it a lot, >>> >>> as those that play rail racer constantly do, but there just aren't enough >>> >>> of them out there to justify the time spent. >>> you can check the archives for details. the project might still get done, >>> >>> but it will have to wait. >>> I think the masses want simple and easy, and those kind of games seem to >>> sell the best. troop n em sold a lot of copies, and at its core, its just >>> >>> a simple shoot em up. >>> anyhow, i want a killer football game myself, so I'm gonna make one. if >>> folks like it fine, if not, whatever, you got to go with what yer >>> passionate about, or the results come out luke warm at best. >>> as for other developers out there, i can't comment, they do what they >>> do, and so far innovation hasn't been at the top of any of their lists >>> lately from what i've seen. >>> We can only hope that changes soon. >>> This is not a money making market to spend hundreds and perhaps thousands >>> >>> of hours on a project and make just a few grand on it. you have to love >>> doing it almost as a hobby , or yer in for dissapointment. >>> I set up the card room because I love poker, and also to offset some of >>> my dedicated server costs, and folks that have played have told me they >>> are the best card games out there for the blind, with features not seen >>> anywhere else. But even so, nobody is gonna ma
Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
Yes, fighting game would be cool, something I have been waiting for since I first saw an audio game! - Original Message - From: "CSF inc." To: "Che" ; "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 11:13 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle Your the man, and can't wait for your football game, dude, call me personally.. As for a fighting game. I can only wish, and allot of other blind gamers I know is starving for it.. And what about up to dat music? Rock, Hip - Hop, club, dance.. Come on it's almost 2010.. Later - Original Message - From: "Che" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 10:01 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle I agree with ya man, I tried something different with rail racer, and I suppose it was somewhat successful, but i got lots of complaints that it was too complicated to play. folks complain if it is too easy, if it is too hard, if it takes too much practice to master, blah blah blah. just can't please all the folks all the time. next i am doing an online playable football game, driven with mouse support, custom plays, online season play against human opponents, high end sound effects, etc. . I was going to do a really involved fighting game as posted on list here, but didn't get much feedback on it, and didn't want to spend the next 18 months on something that wasn't going to sell, especially such an ambitious project. I think the folks that would have enjoyed the online fighting game would have really enjoyed it a lot, as those that play rail racer constantly do, but there just aren't enough of them out there to justify the time spent. you can check the archives for details. the project might still get done, but it will have to wait. I think the masses want simple and easy, and those kind of games seem to sell the best. troop n em sold a lot of copies, and at its core, its just a simple shoot em up. anyhow, i want a killer football game myself, so I'm gonna make one. if folks like it fine, if not, whatever, you got to go with what yer passionate about, or the results come out luke warm at best. as for other developers out there, i can't comment, they do what they do, and so far innovation hasn't been at the top of any of their lists lately from what i've seen. We can only hope that changes soon. This is not a money making market to spend hundreds and perhaps thousands of hours on a project and make just a few grand on it. you have to love doing it almost as a hobby , or yer in for dissapointment. I set up the card room because I love poker, and also to offset some of my dedicated server costs, and folks that have played have told me they are the best card games out there for the blind, with features not seen anywhere else. But even so, nobody is gonna make a living doing this stuff. i've seen cracked copies of most of the accessible games out there, hosted by fellow blinks. these people are total idiots, not realizing the damage they are doing to the accessible gaming market, but they don't care. i know some of them are reading this, and if you are sharing any cracked games, you should be very ashamed of yourself. in sucha small market, the damage you are doing is immense. Bottom line, if your a fellow developer working on a game now, my hat is off to you, this is a hard task without much reward or thanks, but non developers don't get that and don't seem to care either. But having said that, can't we push the envelope a little bit? Do we really need another shoot em up or arcade action game? hasn't all that been done enough by now? later che --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4075 (20090514) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET
Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
Hi Che, I know the feeling. I'm not sure why but simple and easy games appears to be what sells in the accessible games market. As many people know one of my plans will be to create a full blown 3d game engine, as in actual 3d levels with 3d objects, 3d movement, as well as 3d audio support. No sooner did i mention my plans I got various comments to the effect that anything I made using it would be "too hard" even though they never seen the final product yet. One of the things that bothered me was some people immediately tried to tell me that because they have problems with Audioquake and Technoshock they absolutely know that they couldn't play any of my games. They didn't seam to consider the fact that with Audioquake accessibility is poorly implemented, and because it is a modified version of Quake it wasn't designed from the ground up for a blind player. Accessibility is an add on, and there could be a lot more done to it to provide accessibility. Technoshock also has some accessibility issues, that make it harder than say Shades of Doom to play, and i feel accessibility could b done better in that game. I've seen what works and what doesn't and I'd use that experience plus my own blindness to work out any and all accessibility problems that might crop up. Anyway, the bottom line is now and then we see a thread like this where someone suggests coming up with something new, something different, something more mainstream, and when a developer tries to do that, come up with something truly amazing like Rail Racer, the complaints thatit is too hard come rolling in. As a developer we really can't win. No matter if we do something easy or something new and slightly challenging someone is going to complain. Che wrote: I agree with ya man, I tried something different with rail racer, and I suppose it was somewhat successful, but i got lots of complaints that it was too complicated to play. folks complain if it is too easy, if it is too hard, if it takes too much practice to master, blah blah blah. just can't please all the folks all the time. next i am doing an online playable football game, driven with mouse support, custom plays, online season play against human opponents, high end sound effects, etc. . I was going to do a really involved fighting game as posted on list here, but didn't get much feedback on it, and didn't want to spend the next 18 months on something that wasn't going to sell, especially such an ambitious project. I think the folks that would have enjoyed the online fighting game would have really enjoyed it a lot, as those that play rail racer constantly do, but there just aren't enough of them out there to justify the time spent. you can check the archives for details. the project might still get done, but it will have to wait. I think the masses want simple and easy, and those kind of games seem to sell the best. troop n em sold a lot of copies, and at its core, its just a simple shoot em up. anyhow, i want a killer football game myself, so I'm gonna make one. if folks like it fine, if not, whatever, you got to go with what yer passionate about, or the results come out luke warm at best. as for other developers out there, i can't comment, they do what they do, and so far innovation hasn't been at the top of any of their lists lately from what i've seen. We can only hope that changes soon. This is not a money making market to spend hundreds and perhaps thousands of hours on a project and make just a few grand on it. you have to love doing it almost as a hobby , or yer in for dissapointment. I set up the card room because I love poker, and also to offset some of my dedicated server costs, and folks that have played have told me they are the best card games out there for the blind, with features not seen anywhere else. But even so, nobody is gonna make a living doing this stuff. i've seen cracked copies of most of the accessible games out there, hosted by fellow blinks. these people are total idiots, not realizing the damage they are doing to the accessible gaming market, but they don't care. i know some of them are reading this, and if you are sharing any cracked games, you should be very ashamed of yourself. in sucha small market, the damage you are doing is immense. Bottom line, if your a fellow developer working on a game now, my hat is off to you, this is a hard task without much reward or thanks, but non developers don't get that and don't seem to care either. But having said that, can't we push the envelope a little bit? Do we really need another shoot em up or arcade action game? hasn't all that been done enough by now? later che --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and ca
Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
regarding the idea of developers teaming up, it is a great idea in theory, but a diffficult one to put into practice in reality. every developer i have talked to without exception, myself included have large egos and set ways of doing things, this would be a serious problem i think. secondly, deciding how to whack up the proceeds would be a huge issue. lastly, all involved would have to agree on a language to use for programming, which may or may not be a big problem depending on folks involved. anyhow, if some developers can get something done as a group, i'm all for it. but i know as for myself, i work better alone, where the vision is one, all problems as well as successes are also mine alone to deal with, and if something is screwed up, i have nobody to blame but myself. i think this could work out if everyone agreed on the outline of the project, and designed things modularly so each programmer would have their own little corner to work on, which could be intergrated into the whole later on. once again, easier said than done. later che - Original Message - From: "william lomas" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 1:31 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle it will be interesting though to be fair, to see what draconis have up their sleives. i thought 2009 was the year for draconis, but nothing as of yet? On 14 Aug 2009, at 07:29, Thomas Ward wrote: Hi, Well said. I too also feel as though the accessible games we have are a bit disappointing. No disrespect to my fellow game developers, but there really isn't anything that is really new or innovative to speak of besides Rail Racer. For the most part accessible games tend to fall into two catagories. Either they are simple board and card games, or an arcade game type theme. Personally, I find the options rather limitting compared to what was available to me before I lost my sight, and is the main reason I began writing accesible games myself. As for the GMA engine I have to disagree with you. Besides the fact it is a bit old it still is one of the best tools an accessible developer can use. It is an FPS game engine, and in the right hands it could be used to create some killer accessible games. We have already seen what it can do with Shades of Doom and Tank Commander, and I think with some updates it should be able to create games more or less on par with Star Trek Elite Force, Star Wars Jedi Knight, etc. In some respects it isn't the fault of the tool here, but perhaps it is the developer's lack of imagination, creativity, or experience with full blown FPS games here. As for the Star Wars game I was working on I had to put that project on hold for a couple of reasons. First, I am still trying to work with Lucas Film on obtaining a Star Wars license. Second, when Alchemy closed up I took over their games and projects which I want to complete before returning to my own original projects. CSF inc. wrote: With the current game circle we have as blind gamers, it's disappointing; There are interesting games we play but very few; other games are not accessible to certain computers and operating systems; others are so simple and plain, for some of us who has played "regular games," it's disheartening; Effort should be made into making games more involved, more ideas "ie stop making games off of GMA's frame work," There is only 1 Shades, 1 Tank Commander.. lastly, we need games we can play along with our sighted family like "Soul Caliber". We have no fighting games, no sports games we can play without some A.I. making it not real; even though the 2nd best player in the world in Mortal Combat is Blind!! We should of taken that initiative and created some type of fighting game at least similar to Mortal.. Are blind people not sports fans? would we like to box? run the football? aim the pitch in a baseball game? even fly a F-16 in combat.. Sim's are O.K. I guess, but it takes the control and fun out of the game.. Some will complain about this post, some will agree; the point is We Need More Variety, And Not The Same Games With Different Titles.. What happened to Star Wars Jedi attack? OOh Yeah Baby.. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org . You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org . You can mak
Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
it will be interesting though to be fair, to see what draconis have up their sleives. i thought 2009 was the year for draconis, but nothing as of yet? On 14 Aug 2009, at 07:29, Thomas Ward wrote: Hi, Well said. I too also feel as though the accessible games we have are a bit disappointing. No disrespect to my fellow game developers, but there really isn't anything that is really new or innovative to speak of besides Rail Racer. For the most part accessible games tend to fall into two catagories. Either they are simple board and card games, or an arcade game type theme. Personally, I find the options rather limitting compared to what was available to me before I lost my sight, and is the main reason I began writing accesible games myself. As for the GMA engine I have to disagree with you. Besides the fact it is a bit old it still is one of the best tools an accessible developer can use. It is an FPS game engine, and in the right hands it could be used to create some killer accessible games. We have already seen what it can do with Shades of Doom and Tank Commander, and I think with some updates it should be able to create games more or less on par with Star Trek Elite Force, Star Wars Jedi Knight, etc. In some respects it isn't the fault of the tool here, but perhaps it is the developer's lack of imagination, creativity, or experience with full blown FPS games here. As for the Star Wars game I was working on I had to put that project on hold for a couple of reasons. First, I am still trying to work with Lucas Film on obtaining a Star Wars license. Second, when Alchemy closed up I took over their games and projects which I want to complete before returning to my own original projects. CSF inc. wrote: With the current game circle we have as blind gamers, it's disappointing; There are interesting games we play but very few; other games are not accessible to certain computers and operating systems; others are so simple and plain, for some of us who has played "regular games," it's disheartening; Effort should be made into making games more involved, more ideas "ie stop making games off of GMA's frame work," There is only 1 Shades, 1 Tank Commander.. lastly, we need games we can play along with our sighted family like "Soul Caliber". We have no fighting games, no sports games we can play without some A.I. making it not real; even though the 2nd best player in the world in Mortal Combat is Blind!! We should of taken that initiative and created some type of fighting game at least similar to Mortal.. Are blind people not sports fans? would we like to box? run the football? aim the pitch in a baseball game? even fly a F-16 in combat.. Sim's are O.K. I guess, but it takes the control and fun out of the game.. Some will complain about this post, some will agree; the point is We Need More Variety, And Not The Same Games With Different Titles.. What happened to Star Wars Jedi attack? OOh Yeah Baby.. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org . You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org . You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
Hi, Well said. I too also feel as though the accessible games we have are a bit disappointing. No disrespect to my fellow game developers, but there really isn't anything that is really new or innovative to speak of besides Rail Racer. For the most part accessible games tend to fall into two catagories. Either they are simple board and card games, or an arcade game type theme. Personally, I find the options rather limitting compared to what was available to me before I lost my sight, and is the main reason I began writing accesible games myself. As for the GMA engine I have to disagree with you. Besides the fact it is a bit old it still is one of the best tools an accessible developer can use. It is an FPS game engine, and in the right hands it could be used to create some killer accessible games. We have already seen what it can do with Shades of Doom and Tank Commander, and I think with some updates it should be able to create games more or less on par with Star Trek Elite Force, Star Wars Jedi Knight, etc. In some respects it isn't the fault of the tool here, but perhaps it is the developer's lack of imagination, creativity, or experience with full blown FPS games here. As for the Star Wars game I was working on I had to put that project on hold for a couple of reasons. First, I am still trying to work with Lucas Film on obtaining a Star Wars license. Second, when Alchemy closed up I took over their games and projects which I want to complete before returning to my own original projects. CSF inc. wrote: With the current game circle we have as blind gamers, it's disappointing; There are interesting games we play but very few; other games are not accessible to certain computers and operating systems; others are so simple and plain, for some of us who has played "regular games," it's disheartening; Effort should be made into making games more involved, more ideas "ie stop making games off of GMA's frame work," There is only 1 Shades, 1 Tank Commander.. lastly, we need games we can play along with our sighted family like "Soul Caliber". We have no fighting games, no sports games we can play without some A.I. making it not real; even though the 2nd best player in the world in Mortal Combat is Blind!! We should of taken that initiative and created some type of fighting game at least similar to Mortal.. Are blind people not sports fans? would we like to box? run the football? aim the pitch in a baseball game? even fly a F-16 in combat.. Sim's are O.K. I guess, but it takes the control and fun out of the game.. Some will complain about this post, some will agree; the point is We Need More Variety, And Not The Same Games With Different Titles.. What happened to Star Wars Jedi attack? OOh Yeah Baby.. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
As far as Enovation in audio gaming, Che, you have broken many an audio game barrier with rale racer and I am sincerely looking forward to your online football game! Keep it up! I do not mean to sound cocky, but look at what John, Harron, and I pulled off with Microsoft flight simulator 2004. A year ago, we weren’t able to play it. Then we put in some time and look what it gave us! I second what Ken said. A team of developers could really help. I also think that less arcade shooters would be nice, and an online audio RPG would be awesome. What about max shrabnel? That game description on Audiogames.net Sounded marvelous. But now we have audio quake. I think that there are a lot of great ideas, but as Che said, There is a major difference between having something floating around in your head, and bringing up your code parser and writing it. The team idea is awesome though. And for someone like Che to do this for us, and to put so much time in to the games he has made and in to the ones he continues to develop, that is simply fabulous! Let his work be an example to future or even current audio game developers to strive forward, press on with the programming, because it really pays off! I keep hearing about how we’re such a tiny market, and that is true, but it only takes a few people to step up and make something great. Look at the people behind Miriani. Look at Che. Look at Robert and John and Harron and I. Sure, it takes time. But that time can turn in to something great. Nothing is stopping you. Just my opinion. Best, Nick On 8/13/09, CSF inc. wrote: > That sounds great and that is the innovation I was talking about.. > - Original Message - > From: "Bryan Peterson" > To: "Che" ; "Gamers Discussion list" > > Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 11:07 PM > Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle > > >> Exactly. My new girlfriend Angel and I have been talking about teaming up >> to try designing some games since she's apparently a very skilled >> programmer. She's sighted but when I mentioned the idea of audio gaming >> she seemed quite fascinated with the idea. So we'll see what happens. >> We're definitely going to try to develop some more complex games, maybe an >> >> RPG or two or something along the lines of the old Castlevania games. >> You have acquired the skill of Weaponry Theremin. >> Your current level of mastery is 10 Apprentice. >> - Original Message ----- >> From: "Che" >> To: "Gamers Discussion list" >> Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 8:01 PM >> Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle >> >> >>> I agree with ya man, >>> I tried something different with rail racer, and I suppose it was >>> somewhat successful, but i got lots of complaints that it was too >>> complicated to play. >>> folks complain if it is too easy, if it is too hard, if it takes too >>> much practice to master, blah blah blah. just can't please all the folks >>> all the time. >>> next i am doing an online playable football game, driven with mouse >>> support, custom plays, online season play against human opponents, high >>> end sound effects, etc. . I was going to do a really involved fighting >>> game as posted on list here, but didn't get much feedback on it, and >>> didn't want to spend the next 18 months on something that wasn't going to >>> >>> sell, especially such an ambitious project. I think the folks that would >>> have enjoyed the online fighting game would have really enjoyed it a lot, >>> >>> as those that play rail racer constantly do, but there just aren't enough >>> >>> of them out there to justify the time spent. >>> you can check the archives for details. the project might still get done, >>> >>> but it will have to wait. >>> I think the masses want simple and easy, and those kind of games seem to >>> sell the best. troop n em sold a lot of copies, and at its core, its just >>> >>> a simple shoot em up. >>> anyhow, i want a killer football game myself, so I'm gonna make one. if >>> folks like it fine, if not, whatever, you got to go with what yer >>> passionate about, or the results come out luke warm at best. >>> as for other developers out there, i can't comment, they do what they >>> do, and so far innovation hasn't been at the top of any of their lists >>> lately from what i've seen. >>> We can only hope that changes soon. >>> This is not a money making market to spend hundreds and perhaps thousands >>> >>> of hours
Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
Hi ya Mister CSF, where can i go to listen to a sample of your stuff? might be interested in using you down the line for my projects if its good enough. feel free to write me off list. later che c...@blindadrenaline.com - Original Message - From: "CSF inc." To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 1:26 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle I'm a artist with connections to full audio studio's; Pro Tools, Reasons, SSL complete 48 track; 3XD audio like you never herd.. Ya herd.. Smile - Original Message - From: "Ken" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 11:10 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle Well, what we need is our own game team. We need two or three developers working together to program it, we need at least four actors/actresses, we need sound engineers and effects guys. I think a team of six or so could really pull something incredible off, especially if they didn't get impatient about getting a product out fast. I think that's the only way a truly new innovative game is going to come out--because one person can only do so much. I suppose that Che could have spent ten years on Rail Racer and really done a lot more with it--but by then everything would change and he'd have to start from scratch. So how bout some team spirit and a little unity, eh? I'm great with sound effects, acting and narrating, and music. I'm not a very good programmer, and I stop at VB6 for now--maybe I'll learn more later. Do you live near Sandusky Ohio, or are you planning a trip to Cedar Point? Receive a massage at very competitive rates--$40 per hour for a revitalizing therapeutic massage, $65 per house call--any time, anywhere (within reason.) Call 419-577-7973 I'll ease your pain and discomfort, loosen and mobilize your stiff joints, relax your achy muscles, and help you let go of stress, depression, and nervous anxiety... Ken Downey, LMT President of Blind Comfort! The Caring Without the Staring and DreamtechInteractive - Original Message - From: "CSF inc." To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 12:36 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle Don't get me wrong, I respect the developers of all audio games because each game is a new exploration in audio gaming itself; I have been playing games both audio and graphical for many years and I'm a true gamer; I think most of the list are true gamers and are hungry for more; we as a culture of audio game players have come a long way, I would like us to keep moving up levels in creation, and not be stagnated in certain type of games; just as we have come a long way from my first game "battle ship," to my favorite Tank Commander, we still have much more game exploration to conquer, and I know with new technology and innovation we will become more extravagant in our options of game playing.. Thanks - Original Message ----- From: "Scott Chesworth" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 9:49 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle Sure, I'd love a huge library of varied titles to choose from as much as the next bored blind guy with a penchant for gaming, but to be blunt, saying "I want this, we need that" doesn't actually do much. For your "I want this, we need that" to become a reality, the fact is that somebody has got to sit down and put in the hours of story creation, game design, and hard graft coding to make the product. The reason that people use the GMA engine seems to be that it's stable and will save them hundreds of hours of building their own from scratch. The reason that we're lacking variation is that a developer with a great imagination, top writing skills, a knack for inivative usability, bags of skill at writing code, and tons of time to pour into all those things and probably some others I've missed hasn't materialised yet. The creation of mainstream titles has that work load spread across huge teams of people in the cases of the games you mentioned, most of the time we're talking about whole teams for each specific area. Every one of those people gets paid full time to do it, has an actual budget to work with, and has probably fought pretty hard to be doing the job they're doing. Maybe you're actually the developer we need having read all that? I know I'm not. I skated over a few points about graphics etc because they were... well... a bit ridiculous. Sorry it's slightly ranty, I've just had a surprising hour of discovering how much playability there is left in the games I own now I've switched away from the keyboard and I don't like seeing the good developers we actually do have being put down much. Scott On 8/
Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
I'm a artist with connections to full audio studio's; Pro Tools, Reasons, SSL complete 48 track; 3XD audio like you never herd.. Ya herd.. Smile - Original Message - From: "Ken" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 11:10 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle Well, what we need is our own game team. We need two or three developers working together to program it, we need at least four actors/actresses, we need sound engineers and effects guys. I think a team of six or so could really pull something incredible off, especially if they didn't get impatient about getting a product out fast. I think that's the only way a truly new innovative game is going to come out--because one person can only do so much. I suppose that Che could have spent ten years on Rail Racer and really done a lot more with it--but by then everything would change and he'd have to start from scratch. So how bout some team spirit and a little unity, eh? I'm great with sound effects, acting and narrating, and music. I'm not a very good programmer, and I stop at VB6 for now--maybe I'll learn more later. Do you live near Sandusky Ohio, or are you planning a trip to Cedar Point? Receive a massage at very competitive rates--$40 per hour for a revitalizing therapeutic massage, $65 per house call--any time, anywhere (within reason.) Call 419-577-7973 I'll ease your pain and discomfort, loosen and mobilize your stiff joints, relax your achy muscles, and help you let go of stress, depression, and nervous anxiety... Ken Downey, LMT President of Blind Comfort! The Caring Without the Staring and DreamtechInteractive - Original Message - From: "CSF inc." To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 12:36 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle Don't get me wrong, I respect the developers of all audio games because each game is a new exploration in audio gaming itself; I have been playing games both audio and graphical for many years and I'm a true gamer; I think most of the list are true gamers and are hungry for more; we as a culture of audio game players have come a long way, I would like us to keep moving up levels in creation, and not be stagnated in certain type of games; just as we have come a long way from my first game "battle ship," to my favorite Tank Commander, we still have much more game exploration to conquer, and I know with new technology and innovation we will become more extravagant in our options of game playing.. Thanks - Original Message - From: "Scott Chesworth" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 9:49 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle Sure, I'd love a huge library of varied titles to choose from as much as the next bored blind guy with a penchant for gaming, but to be blunt, saying "I want this, we need that" doesn't actually do much. For your "I want this, we need that" to become a reality, the fact is that somebody has got to sit down and put in the hours of story creation, game design, and hard graft coding to make the product. The reason that people use the GMA engine seems to be that it's stable and will save them hundreds of hours of building their own from scratch. The reason that we're lacking variation is that a developer with a great imagination, top writing skills, a knack for inivative usability, bags of skill at writing code, and tons of time to pour into all those things and probably some others I've missed hasn't materialised yet. The creation of mainstream titles has that work load spread across huge teams of people in the cases of the games you mentioned, most of the time we're talking about whole teams for each specific area. Every one of those people gets paid full time to do it, has an actual budget to work with, and has probably fought pretty hard to be doing the job they're doing. Maybe you're actually the developer we need having read all that? I know I'm not. I skated over a few points about graphics etc because they were... well... a bit ridiculous. Sorry it's slightly ranty, I've just had a surprising hour of discovering how much playability there is left in the games I own now I've switched away from the keyboard and I don't like seeing the good developers we actually do have being put down much. Scott On 8/14/09, CSF inc. wrote: With the current game circle we have as blind gamers, it's disappointing; There are interesting games we play but very few; other games are not accessible to certain computers and operating systems; others are so simple and plain, for some of us who has played "regular games," it's disheartening; Effort should be made into making games more involved, more idea
Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
That sounds great and that is the innovation I was talking about.. - Original Message - From: "Bryan Peterson" To: "Che" ; "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 11:07 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle Exactly. My new girlfriend Angel and I have been talking about teaming up to try designing some games since she's apparently a very skilled programmer. She's sighted but when I mentioned the idea of audio gaming she seemed quite fascinated with the idea. So we'll see what happens. We're definitely going to try to develop some more complex games, maybe an RPG or two or something along the lines of the old Castlevania games. You have acquired the skill of Weaponry Theremin. Your current level of mastery is 10 Apprentice. - Original Message - From: "Che" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 8:01 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle I agree with ya man, I tried something different with rail racer, and I suppose it was somewhat successful, but i got lots of complaints that it was too complicated to play. folks complain if it is too easy, if it is too hard, if it takes too much practice to master, blah blah blah. just can't please all the folks all the time. next i am doing an online playable football game, driven with mouse support, custom plays, online season play against human opponents, high end sound effects, etc. . I was going to do a really involved fighting game as posted on list here, but didn't get much feedback on it, and didn't want to spend the next 18 months on something that wasn't going to sell, especially such an ambitious project. I think the folks that would have enjoyed the online fighting game would have really enjoyed it a lot, as those that play rail racer constantly do, but there just aren't enough of them out there to justify the time spent. you can check the archives for details. the project might still get done, but it will have to wait. I think the masses want simple and easy, and those kind of games seem to sell the best. troop n em sold a lot of copies, and at its core, its just a simple shoot em up. anyhow, i want a killer football game myself, so I'm gonna make one. if folks like it fine, if not, whatever, you got to go with what yer passionate about, or the results come out luke warm at best. as for other developers out there, i can't comment, they do what they do, and so far innovation hasn't been at the top of any of their lists lately from what i've seen. We can only hope that changes soon. This is not a money making market to spend hundreds and perhaps thousands of hours on a project and make just a few grand on it. you have to love doing it almost as a hobby , or yer in for dissapointment. I set up the card room because I love poker, and also to offset some of my dedicated server costs, and folks that have played have told me they are the best card games out there for the blind, with features not seen anywhere else. But even so, nobody is gonna make a living doing this stuff. i've seen cracked copies of most of the accessible games out there, hosted by fellow blinks. these people are total idiots, not realizing the damage they are doing to the accessible gaming market, but they don't care. i know some of them are reading this, and if you are sharing any cracked games, you should be very ashamed of yourself. in sucha small market, the damage you are doing is immense. Bottom line, if your a fellow developer working on a game now, my hat is off to you, this is a hard task without much reward or thanks, but non developers don't get that and don't seem to care either. But having said that, can't we push the envelope a little bit? Do we really need another shoot em up or arcade action game? hasn't all that been done enough by now? later che --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyss
Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
Your the man, and can't wait for your football game, dude, call me personally.. As for a fighting game. I can only wish, and allot of other blind gamers I know is starving for it.. And what about up to dat music? Rock, Hip - Hop, club, dance.. Come on it's almost 2010.. Later - Original Message - From: "Che" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 10:01 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle I agree with ya man, I tried something different with rail racer, and I suppose it was somewhat successful, but i got lots of complaints that it was too complicated to play. folks complain if it is too easy, if it is too hard, if it takes too much practice to master, blah blah blah. just can't please all the folks all the time. next i am doing an online playable football game, driven with mouse support, custom plays, online season play against human opponents, high end sound effects, etc. . I was going to do a really involved fighting game as posted on list here, but didn't get much feedback on it, and didn't want to spend the next 18 months on something that wasn't going to sell, especially such an ambitious project. I think the folks that would have enjoyed the online fighting game would have really enjoyed it a lot, as those that play rail racer constantly do, but there just aren't enough of them out there to justify the time spent. you can check the archives for details. the project might still get done, but it will have to wait. I think the masses want simple and easy, and those kind of games seem to sell the best. troop n em sold a lot of copies, and at its core, its just a simple shoot em up. anyhow, i want a killer football game myself, so I'm gonna make one. if folks like it fine, if not, whatever, you got to go with what yer passionate about, or the results come out luke warm at best. as for other developers out there, i can't comment, they do what they do, and so far innovation hasn't been at the top of any of their lists lately from what i've seen. We can only hope that changes soon. This is not a money making market to spend hundreds and perhaps thousands of hours on a project and make just a few grand on it. you have to love doing it almost as a hobby , or yer in for dissapointment. I set up the card room because I love poker, and also to offset some of my dedicated server costs, and folks that have played have told me they are the best card games out there for the blind, with features not seen anywhere else. But even so, nobody is gonna make a living doing this stuff. i've seen cracked copies of most of the accessible games out there, hosted by fellow blinks. these people are total idiots, not realizing the damage they are doing to the accessible gaming market, but they don't care. i know some of them are reading this, and if you are sharing any cracked games, you should be very ashamed of yourself. in sucha small market, the damage you are doing is immense. Bottom line, if your a fellow developer working on a game now, my hat is off to you, this is a hard task without much reward or thanks, but non developers don't get that and don't seem to care either. But having said that, can't we push the envelope a little bit? Do we really need another shoot em up or arcade action game? hasn't all that been done enough by now? later che --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
Well, what we need is our own game team. We need two or three developers working together to program it, we need at least four actors/actresses, we need sound engineers and effects guys. I think a team of six or so could really pull something incredible off, especially if they didn't get impatient about getting a product out fast. I think that's the only way a truly new innovative game is going to come out--because one person can only do so much. I suppose that Che could have spent ten years on Rail Racer and really done a lot more with it--but by then everything would change and he'd have to start from scratch. So how bout some team spirit and a little unity, eh? I'm great with sound effects, acting and narrating, and music. I'm not a very good programmer, and I stop at VB6 for now--maybe I'll learn more later. Do you live near Sandusky Ohio, or are you planning a trip to Cedar Point? Receive a massage at very competitive rates--$40 per hour for a revitalizing therapeutic massage, $65 per house call--any time, anywhere (within reason.) Call 419-577-7973 I'll ease your pain and discomfort, loosen and mobilize your stiff joints, relax your achy muscles, and help you let go of stress, depression, and nervous anxiety... Ken Downey, LMT President of Blind Comfort! The Caring Without the Staring and DreamtechInteractive - Original Message - From: "CSF inc." To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 12:36 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle Don't get me wrong, I respect the developers of all audio games because each game is a new exploration in audio gaming itself; I have been playing games both audio and graphical for many years and I'm a true gamer; I think most of the list are true gamers and are hungry for more; we as a culture of audio game players have come a long way, I would like us to keep moving up levels in creation, and not be stagnated in certain type of games; just as we have come a long way from my first game "battle ship," to my favorite Tank Commander, we still have much more game exploration to conquer, and I know with new technology and innovation we will become more extravagant in our options of game playing.. Thanks - Original Message - From: "Scott Chesworth" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 9:49 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle Sure, I'd love a huge library of varied titles to choose from as much as the next bored blind guy with a penchant for gaming, but to be blunt, saying "I want this, we need that" doesn't actually do much. For your "I want this, we need that" to become a reality, the fact is that somebody has got to sit down and put in the hours of story creation, game design, and hard graft coding to make the product. The reason that people use the GMA engine seems to be that it's stable and will save them hundreds of hours of building their own from scratch. The reason that we're lacking variation is that a developer with a great imagination, top writing skills, a knack for inivative usability, bags of skill at writing code, and tons of time to pour into all those things and probably some others I've missed hasn't materialised yet. The creation of mainstream titles has that work load spread across huge teams of people in the cases of the games you mentioned, most of the time we're talking about whole teams for each specific area. Every one of those people gets paid full time to do it, has an actual budget to work with, and has probably fought pretty hard to be doing the job they're doing. Maybe you're actually the developer we need having read all that? I know I'm not. I skated over a few points about graphics etc because they were... well... a bit ridiculous. Sorry it's slightly ranty, I've just had a surprising hour of discovering how much playability there is left in the games I own now I've switched away from the keyboard and I don't like seeing the good developers we actually do have being put down much. Scott On 8/14/09, CSF inc. wrote: With the current game circle we have as blind gamers, it's disappointing; There are interesting games we play but very few; other games are not accessible to certain computers and operating systems; others are so simple and plain, for some of us who has played "regular games," it's disheartening; Effort should be made into making games more involved, more ideas "ie stop making games off of GMA's frame work," There is only 1 Shades, 1 Tank Commander.. lastly, we need games we can play along with our sighted family like "Soul Caliber". We have no fighting games, no sports games we can play without some A.I. making it not real; even though the 2nd best player i
Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
Rail Racer too hard to play? No way dude--it's just laziness on the part of people who don't want to take, like, five hours to really give a game a chance. Personally I hope you start working with Wiimote support soon. I'd love to learn how to program for the Wii--I'm currently between projects having lost all the source code to Wrecking Ball. I'd love a good project to sink my brain into, especially as my hearing problem is getting worse and I really can't say for sure how long I'll even be able to play audio games. With my luck, as soon as I give up due to inability to play, someone will come out with something really complex like Grand Theft UFO or something. Anyway, I'd personally love to see a good fighting game too. Ken Do you live near Sandusky Ohio, or are you planning a trip to Cedar Point? Receive a massage at very competitive rates--$40 per hour for a revitalizing therapeutic massage, $65 per house call--any time, anywhere (within reason.) Call 419-577-7973 I'll ease your pain and discomfort, loosen and mobilize your stiff joints, relax your achy muscles, and help you let go of stress, depression, and nervous anxiety... Ken Downey, LMT President of Blind Comfort! The Caring Without the Staring and DreamtechInteractive - Original Message - From: "Che" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 11:01 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle I agree with ya man, I tried something different with rail racer, and I suppose it was somewhat successful, but i got lots of complaints that it was too complicated to play. folks complain if it is too easy, if it is too hard, if it takes too much practice to master, blah blah blah. just can't please all the folks all the time. next i am doing an online playable football game, driven with mouse support, custom plays, online season play against human opponents, high end sound effects, etc. . I was going to do a really involved fighting game as posted on list here, but didn't get much feedback on it, and didn't want to spend the next 18 months on something that wasn't going to sell, especially such an ambitious project. I think the folks that would have enjoyed the online fighting game would have really enjoyed it a lot, as those that play rail racer constantly do, but there just aren't enough of them out there to justify the time spent. you can check the archives for details. the project might still get done, but it will have to wait. I think the masses want simple and easy, and those kind of games seem to sell the best. troop n em sold a lot of copies, and at its core, its just a simple shoot em up. anyhow, i want a killer football game myself, so I'm gonna make one. if folks like it fine, if not, whatever, you got to go with what yer passionate about, or the results come out luke warm at best. as for other developers out there, i can't comment, they do what they do, and so far innovation hasn't been at the top of any of their lists lately from what i've seen. We can only hope that changes soon. This is not a money making market to spend hundreds and perhaps thousands of hours on a project and make just a few grand on it. you have to love doing it almost as a hobby , or yer in for dissapointment. I set up the card room because I love poker, and also to offset some of my dedicated server costs, and folks that have played have told me they are the best card games out there for the blind, with features not seen anywhere else. But even so, nobody is gonna make a living doing this stuff. i've seen cracked copies of most of the accessible games out there, hosted by fellow blinks. these people are total idiots, not realizing the damage they are doing to the accessible gaming market, but they don't care. i know some of them are reading this, and if you are sharing any cracked games, you should be very ashamed of yourself. in sucha small market, the damage you are doing is immense. Bottom line, if your a fellow developer working on a game now, my hat is off to you, this is a hard task without much reward or thanks, but non developers don't get that and don't seem to care either. But having said that, can't we push the envelope a little bit? Do we really need another shoot em up or arcade action game? hasn't all that been done enough by now? later che --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audysse
Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
yes, rail racer doesnt' spend much time setting up the environment yer in, you can read the description of the game world on the web site if you want, but the game puts you right into the action. don't feel bad about not being great at it right off the bat, like any good game, it takes a while to get the hang of it. and if you haven't raced online yet, yer really missing out. we're gonna be doing a new online tournament in september, so be sure and hone your skills before then. i myself am getting trounced by several players, some of these guys have really taken it to the next level as far as racing skill as well as track creation. later che - Original Message - From: "Scott Chesworth" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 10:29 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle Rail racer is an interesting case imho, probably the hardest accessible game I've played yet. I find it fascinating that somehow I've become hooked on a game that, no disrespect to Che, doesn't particularly have a thrilling plot, has no changing scenery or atmosphere or randomisation, it's purely about developing your skills. I haven't been tested this much since the first time I realised it was possible to take Mortal Kombat seriously and actually get good. Of course the online element of it will be a big deal for those who take part, it's probably the biggest advancement in mainstream gaming too (not counting graphics). Haven't dived into that yet, I don't fancy the humiliation haha. Not sure what my point is really here, I'm just thinking outloud so that someone other than the developer himself says that Rail Racer is well worth a look if you want something that feels a little different to play and reaps a different kind of rewarding feeling to the GMA style stuff. Scott On 8/14/09, Bryan Peterson wrote: Exactly. My new girlfriend Angel and I have been talking about teaming up to try designing some games since she's apparently a very skilled programmer. She's sighted but when I mentioned the idea of audio gaming she seemed quite fascinated with the idea. So we'll see what happens. We're definitely going to try to develop some more complex games, maybe an RPG or two or something along the lines of the old Castlevania games. You have acquired the skill of Weaponry Theremin. Your current level of mastery is 10 Apprentice. - Original Message - From: "Che" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 8:01 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle I agree with ya man, I tried something different with rail racer, and I suppose it was somewhat successful, but i got lots of complaints that it was too complicated to play. folks complain if it is too easy, if it is too hard, if it takes too much practice to master, blah blah blah. just can't please all the folks all the time. next i am doing an online playable football game, driven with mouse support, custom plays, online season play against human opponents, high end sound effects, etc. . I was going to do a really involved fighting game as posted on list here, but didn't get much feedback on it, and didn't want to spend the next 18 months on something that wasn't going to sell, especially such an ambitious project. I think the folks that would have enjoyed the online fighting game would have really enjoyed it a lot, as those that play rail racer constantly do, but there just aren't enough of them out there to justify the time spent. you can check the archives for details. the project might still get done, but it will have to wait. I think the masses want simple and easy, and those kind of games seem to sell the best. troop n em sold a lot of copies, and at its core, its just a simple shoot em up. anyhow, i want a killer football game myself, so I'm gonna make one. if folks like it fine, if not, whatever, you got to go with what yer passionate about, or the results come out luke warm at best. as for other developers out there, i can't comment, they do what they do, and so far innovation hasn't been at the top of any of their lists lately from what i've seen. We can only hope that changes soon. This is not a money making market to spend hundreds and perhaps thousands of hours on a project and make just a few grand on it. you have to love doing it almost as a hobby , or yer in for dissapointment. I set up the card room because I love poker, and also to offset some of my dedicated server costs, and folks that have played have told me they are the best card games out there for the blind, with features not seen anywhere else. But even so, nobody is gonna make a living doing this stuff. i've seen cracked copies of most of the accessible games out there, hosted by fellow blinks. these people are total i
Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
Don't get me wrong, I respect the developers of all audio games because each game is a new exploration in audio gaming itself; I have been playing games both audio and graphical for many years and I'm a true gamer; I think most of the list are true gamers and are hungry for more; we as a culture of audio game players have come a long way, I would like us to keep moving up levels in creation, and not be stagnated in certain type of games; just as we have come a long way from my first game "battle ship," to my favorite Tank Commander, we still have much more game exploration to conquer, and I know with new technology and innovation we will become more extravagant in our options of game playing.. Thanks - Original Message - From: "Scott Chesworth" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 9:49 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle Sure, I'd love a huge library of varied titles to choose from as much as the next bored blind guy with a penchant for gaming, but to be blunt, saying "I want this, we need that" doesn't actually do much. For your "I want this, we need that" to become a reality, the fact is that somebody has got to sit down and put in the hours of story creation, game design, and hard graft coding to make the product. The reason that people use the GMA engine seems to be that it's stable and will save them hundreds of hours of building their own from scratch. The reason that we're lacking variation is that a developer with a great imagination, top writing skills, a knack for inivative usability, bags of skill at writing code, and tons of time to pour into all those things and probably some others I've missed hasn't materialised yet. The creation of mainstream titles has that work load spread across huge teams of people in the cases of the games you mentioned, most of the time we're talking about whole teams for each specific area. Every one of those people gets paid full time to do it, has an actual budget to work with, and has probably fought pretty hard to be doing the job they're doing. Maybe you're actually the developer we need having read all that? I know I'm not. I skated over a few points about graphics etc because they were... well... a bit ridiculous. Sorry it's slightly ranty, I've just had a surprising hour of discovering how much playability there is left in the games I own now I've switched away from the keyboard and I don't like seeing the good developers we actually do have being put down much. Scott On 8/14/09, CSF inc. wrote: With the current game circle we have as blind gamers, it's disappointing; There are interesting games we play but very few; other games are not accessible to certain computers and operating systems; others are so simple and plain, for some of us who has played "regular games," it's disheartening; Effort should be made into making games more involved, more ideas "ie stop making games off of GMA's frame work," There is only 1 Shades, 1 Tank Commander.. lastly, we need games we can play along with our sighted family like "Soul Caliber". We have no fighting games, no sports games we can play without some A.I. making it not real; even though the 2nd best player in the world in Mortal Combat is Blind!! We should of taken that initiative and created some type of fighting game at least similar to Mortal.. Are blind people not sports fans? would we like to box? run the football? aim the pitch in a baseball game? even fly a F-16 in combat.. Sim's are O.K. I guess, but it takes the control and fun out of the game.. Some will complain about this post, some will agree; the point is We Need More Variety, And Not The Same Games With Different Titles.. What happened to Star Wars Jedi attack? OOh Yeah Baby.. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
Rail racer is an interesting case imho, probably the hardest accessible game I've played yet. I find it fascinating that somehow I've become hooked on a game that, no disrespect to Che, doesn't particularly have a thrilling plot, has no changing scenery or atmosphere or randomisation, it's purely about developing your skills. I haven't been tested this much since the first time I realised it was possible to take Mortal Kombat seriously and actually get good. Of course the online element of it will be a big deal for those who take part, it's probably the biggest advancement in mainstream gaming too (not counting graphics). Haven't dived into that yet, I don't fancy the humiliation haha. Not sure what my point is really here, I'm just thinking outloud so that someone other than the developer himself says that Rail Racer is well worth a look if you want something that feels a little different to play and reaps a different kind of rewarding feeling to the GMA style stuff. Scott On 8/14/09, Bryan Peterson wrote: > Exactly. My new girlfriend Angel and I have been talking about teaming up to > try designing some games since she's apparently a very skilled programmer. > She's sighted but when I mentioned the idea of audio gaming she seemed quite > fascinated with the idea. So we'll see what happens. We're definitely going > to try to develop some more complex games, maybe an RPG or two or something > along the lines of the old Castlevania games. > You have acquired the skill of Weaponry Theremin. > Your current level of mastery is 10 Apprentice. > - Original Message - > From: "Che" > To: "Gamers Discussion list" > Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 8:01 PM > Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle > > >> I agree with ya man, >> I tried something different with rail racer, and I suppose it was >> somewhat successful, but i got lots of complaints that it was too >> complicated to play. >> folks complain if it is too easy, if it is too hard, if it takes too much >> >> practice to master, blah blah blah. just can't please all the folks all >> the time. >> next i am doing an online playable football game, driven with mouse >> support, custom plays, online season play against human opponents, high >> end sound effects, etc. . I was going to do a really involved fighting >> game as posted on list here, but didn't get much feedback on it, and >> didn't want to spend the next 18 months on something that wasn't going to >> sell, especially such an ambitious project. I think the folks that would >> have enjoyed the online fighting game would have really enjoyed it a lot, >> as those that play rail racer constantly do, but there just aren't enough >> of them out there to justify the time spent. >> you can check the archives for details. the project might still get done, >> but it will have to wait. >> I think the masses want simple and easy, and those kind of games seem to >> sell the best. troop n em sold a lot of copies, and at its core, its just >> a simple shoot em up. >> anyhow, i want a killer football game myself, so I'm gonna make one. if >> folks like it fine, if not, whatever, you got to go with what yer >> passionate about, or the results come out luke warm at best. >> as for other developers out there, i can't comment, they do what they do, >> >> and so far innovation hasn't been at the top of any of their lists lately >> from what i've seen. >> We can only hope that changes soon. >> This is not a money making market to spend hundreds and perhaps thousands >> of hours on a project and make just a few grand on it. you have to love >> doing it almost as a hobby , or yer in for dissapointment. >> I set up the card room because I love poker, and also to offset some of >> my dedicated server costs, and folks that have played have told me they >> are the best card games out there for the blind, with features not seen >> anywhere else. But even so, nobody is gonna make a living doing this >> stuff. >> i've seen cracked copies of most of the accessible games out there, hosted >> >> by fellow blinks. these people are total idiots, not realizing the damage >> they are doing to the accessible gaming market, but they don't care. i >> know some of them are reading this, and if you are sharing any cracked >> games, you should be very ashamed of yourself. in sucha small market, the >> damage you are doing is immense. >> Bottom line, if your a fellow developer working on a game now, my hat is >> off to you, this is a hard task without
Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
Exactly. My new girlfriend Angel and I have been talking about teaming up to try designing some games since she's apparently a very skilled programmer. She's sighted but when I mentioned the idea of audio gaming she seemed quite fascinated with the idea. So we'll see what happens. We're definitely going to try to develop some more complex games, maybe an RPG or two or something along the lines of the old Castlevania games. You have acquired the skill of Weaponry Theremin. Your current level of mastery is 10 Apprentice. - Original Message - From: "Che" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 8:01 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle I agree with ya man, I tried something different with rail racer, and I suppose it was somewhat successful, but i got lots of complaints that it was too complicated to play. folks complain if it is too easy, if it is too hard, if it takes too much practice to master, blah blah blah. just can't please all the folks all the time. next i am doing an online playable football game, driven with mouse support, custom plays, online season play against human opponents, high end sound effects, etc. . I was going to do a really involved fighting game as posted on list here, but didn't get much feedback on it, and didn't want to spend the next 18 months on something that wasn't going to sell, especially such an ambitious project. I think the folks that would have enjoyed the online fighting game would have really enjoyed it a lot, as those that play rail racer constantly do, but there just aren't enough of them out there to justify the time spent. you can check the archives for details. the project might still get done, but it will have to wait. I think the masses want simple and easy, and those kind of games seem to sell the best. troop n em sold a lot of copies, and at its core, its just a simple shoot em up. anyhow, i want a killer football game myself, so I'm gonna make one. if folks like it fine, if not, whatever, you got to go with what yer passionate about, or the results come out luke warm at best. as for other developers out there, i can't comment, they do what they do, and so far innovation hasn't been at the top of any of their lists lately from what i've seen. We can only hope that changes soon. This is not a money making market to spend hundreds and perhaps thousands of hours on a project and make just a few grand on it. you have to love doing it almost as a hobby , or yer in for dissapointment. I set up the card room because I love poker, and also to offset some of my dedicated server costs, and folks that have played have told me they are the best card games out there for the blind, with features not seen anywhere else. But even so, nobody is gonna make a living doing this stuff. i've seen cracked copies of most of the accessible games out there, hosted by fellow blinks. these people are total idiots, not realizing the damage they are doing to the accessible gaming market, but they don't care. i know some of them are reading this, and if you are sharing any cracked games, you should be very ashamed of yourself. in sucha small market, the damage you are doing is immense. Bottom line, if your a fellow developer working on a game now, my hat is off to you, this is a hard task without much reward or thanks, but non developers don't get that and don't seem to care either. But having said that, can't we push the envelope a little bit? Do we really need another shoot em up or arcade action game? hasn't all that been done enough by now? later che --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
I agree with ya man, I tried something different with rail racer, and I suppose it was somewhat successful, but i got lots of complaints that it was too complicated to play. folks complain if it is too easy, if it is too hard, if it takes too much practice to master, blah blah blah. just can't please all the folks all the time. next i am doing an online playable football game, driven with mouse support, custom plays, online season play against human opponents, high end sound effects, etc. . I was going to do a really involved fighting game as posted on list here, but didn't get much feedback on it, and didn't want to spend the next 18 months on something that wasn't going to sell, especially such an ambitious project. I think the folks that would have enjoyed the online fighting game would have really enjoyed it a lot, as those that play rail racer constantly do, but there just aren't enough of them out there to justify the time spent. you can check the archives for details. the project might still get done, but it will have to wait. I think the masses want simple and easy, and those kind of games seem to sell the best. troop n em sold a lot of copies, and at its core, its just a simple shoot em up. anyhow, i want a killer football game myself, so I'm gonna make one. if folks like it fine, if not, whatever, you got to go with what yer passionate about, or the results come out luke warm at best. as for other developers out there, i can't comment, they do what they do, and so far innovation hasn't been at the top of any of their lists lately from what i've seen. We can only hope that changes soon. This is not a money making market to spend hundreds and perhaps thousands of hours on a project and make just a few grand on it. you have to love doing it almost as a hobby , or yer in for dissapointment. I set up the card room because I love poker, and also to offset some of my dedicated server costs, and folks that have played have told me they are the best card games out there for the blind, with features not seen anywhere else. But even so, nobody is gonna make a living doing this stuff. i've seen cracked copies of most of the accessible games out there, hosted by fellow blinks. these people are total idiots, not realizing the damage they are doing to the accessible gaming market, but they don't care. i know some of them are reading this, and if you are sharing any cracked games, you should be very ashamed of yourself. in sucha small market, the damage you are doing is immense. Bottom line, if your a fellow developer working on a game now, my hat is off to you, this is a hard task without much reward or thanks, but non developers don't get that and don't seem to care either. But having said that, can't we push the envelope a little bit? Do we really need another shoot em up or arcade action game? hasn't all that been done enough by now? later che --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
Hi, I for one will wholeheartedly agree with this. My personal preference runs more for grand strategy, along the lines of Master of Orion, Civilization, etc. I can currently play both these games somewhat awkwardly via sighted proxy. I wish I didn't have to do it that way. What we need is something like the currently accessible Anacreon Reconstruction with better AI and diplomacy options. Just my two cents here. I know these kinds of games are probably the hardest to program, despite not having any realtime or 3D audio or what have you. All the best, Zack. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] The real Game Circle
Sure, I'd love a huge library of varied titles to choose from as much as the next bored blind guy with a penchant for gaming, but to be blunt, saying "I want this, we need that" doesn't actually do much. For your "I want this, we need that" to become a reality, the fact is that somebody has got to sit down and put in the hours of story creation, game design, and hard graft coding to make the product. The reason that people use the GMA engine seems to be that it's stable and will save them hundreds of hours of building their own from scratch. The reason that we're lacking variation is that a developer with a great imagination, top writing skills, a knack for inivative usability, bags of skill at writing code, and tons of time to pour into all those things and probably some others I've missed hasn't materialised yet. The creation of mainstream titles has that work load spread across huge teams of people in the cases of the games you mentioned, most of the time we're talking about whole teams for each specific area. Every one of those people gets paid full time to do it, has an actual budget to work with, and has probably fought pretty hard to be doing the job they're doing. Maybe you're actually the developer we need having read all that? I know I'm not. I skated over a few points about graphics etc because they were... well... a bit ridiculous. Sorry it's slightly ranty, I've just had a surprising hour of discovering how much playability there is left in the games I own now I've switched away from the keyboard and I don't like seeing the good developers we actually do have being put down much. Scott On 8/14/09, CSF inc. wrote: > With the current game circle we have as blind gamers, it's disappointing; > There are interesting games we play but very few; other games are not > accessible to certain computers and operating systems; others are so simple > and plain, for some of us who has played "regular games," it's > disheartening; Effort should be made into making games more involved, more > ideas "ie stop making games off of GMA's frame work," There is only 1 > Shades, 1 Tank Commander.. lastly, we need games we can play along with our > sighted family like "Soul Caliber". We have no fighting games, no sports > games we can play without some A.I. making it not real; even though the 2nd > best player in the world in Mortal Combat is Blind!! We should of taken that > > initiative > > and created some type of fighting game at least similar to Mortal.. Are > blind people not sports fans? would we like to box? run the football? aim > the pitch in a baseball game? even fly a F-16 in combat.. Sim's are O.K. I > guess, but it takes the control and fun out of the game.. Some will complain > about this post, some will agree; the point is We Need More Variety, And Not > The Same Games With Different Titles.. What happened to Star Wars Jedi > attack? OOh Yeah Baby.. > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.