Re: [Audyssey] question about games
Not necessarily relevant as such, but something like the vOICe rendering the GUI is something I have tried out when playing audioQuake with graphics turned on, and it did warn me of certain aspects before the added on audio cues told me about them, but the issue with this sort of platform navigation would also be that players would need to be somewhat used to it's audio rendition as such, but anyway... Stay well Jacob Kruger Blind Biker Skype: BlindZA '...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...' - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Charles Rivard woofer...@sbcglobal.net; Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 5:46 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] question about games Hi Charles, Well, this isn't necessarily about game complexity or challenge, but how we, as game developers, can convey the same sort of information to a blind gamer through audio as a sighted gamer would get by looking at the screen. Having a more or less advanced 2d layout happens to be one of those things lacking in audio games, and hasn't really been tried before in an audio only format. Since I have already mentioned Tomb Raider Prophecy as an example in an earlier message I'll continue to use it here as an example of what we are talking about. When you play a game like Tomb Raider Prophecy you are shown a 2d vista of various cliffs, ledges, pitfalls, etc. That is having items above and below your current position. You might have to take a rather long running jump to get up onto a low hanging ledge, catch it, and then use control+up arrow to pull yourself onto it. You then might take a few steps left and use up arrow to skale the cliffside to get up to a higher level to grab a med kit sitting up there. Once you get it you can get off the cliff by running right, take a long leep from the top of that ledge, down to a lower ledge to the right and below your position, and jump from there back down to the ground level. This type of layout isn't unusual for mainstream games, but hasn't even been seriously attempted by any audio game developer So bottom line Dark was wondering how we could indicate this type of game layout with ledges or cliffs above and possably below your current location. Especially, if you have to take a long running jump to jump up and catch it, or take a running jump to clear a very large gap between two different levels and ledges. After all we don't have the advantage of sight and can't see that ledge b is very far away from ledge a. The game that really comes to mind here is Monkey Business. In level 4 you have to cross a series of ledges to get to the teleporter. So far I know of know one who has mastered that level, and one reason is James North didn't give us enough verbal or sound feedback to quite see the level as a whole, or figure out how things relate to each other in the game world. I for one think it could have been done differently and made things less complicated. Were it a mainstream video game there would be more information given just by looking at it visually. Somehow a game developer needs to convey the exact same visual information via audio or verbal directions. Cheers! On 3/17/10, Charles Rivard woofer...@sbcglobal.net wrote: As MOTA might get more difficult and complex as we progress through it, maybe this idea could be incorporated somewhere near the end of the game, unless other challenges are in the evil mind of Thomas Ward that would be harder. --- In God we trust. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4953 (20100317) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4953 (20100317) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] question about games
My concern with vocal kews is that the game basically turns into a glorified mud, ie, a set of real time events represented only by explanations of those events in voice. Someone on a retro gaming forum once asked me how audio packman worked, asking if I got tired of the computer saying packman eats a dot, packman eats a dot Obviously said person had seen audio description for tv programs, and assumed audio games worked the same way, not an unreasonable assumption sinse the the idea of representing an entire environment in sound is not one which comes up too often outside audio games, (I appreciated that said person had at least employed their brain), however it does warn of something which might happen if spoken interface is taken too far, I presume this was one reason why David greenwood included features like the sound sonar in lone wolf when it was ported from dos to windows. Beware the grue! Dark. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Jacob Kruger jac...@mailzone.co.za To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 5:57 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] question about games Not necessarily relevant as such, but something like the vOICe rendering the GUI is something I have tried out when playing audioQuake with graphics turned on, and it did warn me of certain aspects before the added on audio cues told me about them, but the issue with this sort of platform navigation would also be that players would need to be somewhat used to it's audio rendition as such, but anyway... Stay well Jacob Kruger --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] question about games
That's why liked the idea of using the vOICe as well, since it's really rendering different frequencies etc. as it scans left to right, and you can set it to a lower volume so it doesn't interfere with the games actual built in cues etc., but it would obviously require the game to have actual visual content as such. In terms of vocal cues, it's quite funny to get a sighted person who hears my computer doing much the first time, and they're asking, what the hell! often enough since they can't imagine so much cluttered, audio content, but I tell them we're 'glancing' at the screen, with our ears... as in, we don't necessarily listen to every bit of detail of each audio cue, but work on the combination of them. Stay well Jacob Kruger Blind Biker Skype: BlindZA '...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...' - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 8:37 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] question about games My concern with vocal kews is that the game basically turns into a glorified mud, ie, a set of real time events represented only by explanations of those events in voice. Someone on a retro gaming forum once asked me how audio packman worked, asking if I got tired of the computer saying packman eats a dot, packman eats a dot Obviously said person had seen audio description for tv programs, and assumed audio games worked the same way, not an unreasonable assumption sinse the the idea of representing an entire environment in sound is not one which comes up too often outside audio games, (I appreciated that said person had at least employed their brain), however it does warn of something which might happen if spoken interface is taken too far, I presume this was one reason why David greenwood included features like the sound sonar in lone wolf when it was ported from dos to windows. Beware the grue! Dark. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Jacob Kruger jac...@mailzone.co.za To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 5:57 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] question about games Not necessarily relevant as such, but something like the vOICe rendering the GUI is something I have tried out when playing audioQuake with graphics turned on, and it did warn me of certain aspects before the added on audio cues told me about them, but the issue with this sort of platform navigation would also be that players would need to be somewhat used to it's audio rendition as such, but anyway... Stay well Jacob Kruger --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4953 (20100317) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4953 (20100317) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] question about games
Hi Dark, Yeah, the ledges only drip when you are within a certain rrange of the ledge. They don't necessarily drip if you are under them, or if they are too far to reach. The best case example I can think of for this is when you climb the rope from room 2 up into room 3, on the first level, when you are about half way up you will start hearing a drip off to your left and right. Those would be the ledges you need to jump onto from the rope. Some people miss that sound cue I think, but it is certainly there. However, it does blend very nicely into the background. Cheers! On 3/18/10, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. Indeed, i didn't notice the dripping water in Mota because I assumed it was part of the ambience, though I did notice it back in Montizuma's return, so I should've really assumed it was there. If you have some other ambience then that should work fine, and allow complex layout of ledges making for more exploration. Just one question though. Is the dripping water indicator only audible when your within jumping distance? if not, then possibly you might considder adding that to the change logue, sinse I can imagine hereing ledges above you and not knowing if you can reach them or not would be a rather confusing situation in the game, especially if you were walking on a lower level benieth a far higher set of ledges which you'd need to go somewhere else to climb. Just a thought on easing the system a bit. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] question about games
Agreed Tom. Dynaman and packman talks are actually in the odd catagory of being classic arcade games with a first person view. A couple of crasier retro games designers and more bizarre mainstream games have done this (there was a ps2 game of 3D space invaders), but generally it doesn't happen as much, sinse from a sited point of view either a direct 2D side view or the top down perspective has generally been used for classic games like packman or boulderdash. While I certainly see your point about 3D games such as shades and Sarah, I do think audio 2D games have suffered far more from this lack of a second dimention, which has seriously affected gameplay. Even in the original Monti game, I noticed that there was very litle actual movement in the y axiss, the hole game ran on a system of essentially stratified left/right corridors linked by climbable ladders rather like prince of persia, some levels of original donkey kong or the old C64 classic Freddy. You didn't really have as much free vertical movement though as in something like mario brothers, much less metroid or mega man. Just to illustrate, Take for instance the start of marrio brothers 1 as an example. When you've dealt with the initial goomba you are faced with a ledge above your head. you can walk undernieth it, or jump ontop of it. Walking undernieth will let you jump up and get the mushroom and coin block contained in that ledge, while jumping ontop will let you get the coin block up there, you could, (alternatively), simply run under the ledge and miss the hole lot. Thus already we have three levels of vertical movement, not linked by ladders or anything else, and a number of options for how the player will handle these choices. I don't think representing this is in any way beyond the capabilities of audio, --- afterall, you'd only need to represent the ledges your character could immediately jump to (they can worry about the others once they get there), but nobody has yet done it, which is a shame. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] question about games
Hi. yes this makes plenty of sense now. Thanks much Regards: Valiant8086: website valiant8086.com - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward To: Gamers Discussion list Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 4:20 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] question about games Hi, No, it wouldn't. Using the mainstream system of classifying games Tank Commander would likely be classified as a real time simulation just like Lone Wolf is. The main difference here being the game is the simulation of driving a tank in combat as apposed to controlling a single soldier, super hero, etc from a complete first person perspective. Does that make sense? On 3/16/10, Valiant8086 valiant8...@lavabit.com wrote: Hi. Would GMA Tank Commander count as an fps? Regards: Valiant8086: website valiant8086.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] question about games
Hi Dark, Yeah, I've been doing a lot of thinking about that myself of late. After my recent survey you and others have convinced me there is still a large market in the audio games community for side-scroller based games. That in turn made me think of things that have been done in mainstream side-scrollers, but that haven't necessarily been tried in audio. One of these is various alternative routes as you just mentioned in your Mario example. For example, off the top of my head in the first level of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles you have a couple of routes you can take to get to the damn where April O'neal is being held captive. You can climb up out of the sewers and travel above ground in the city to get to the enemy's hideout, or you can stay below groundin the sewers and make your way to the hideout. Either way it gets you where you want to go, but offers an alternative route and different challenges you can choose. As you pointed out most accessible audio games don't offer this degree of flexability of movement. Something else that makes TMNT unique as a side-scroller is it is the first side-scroller to offer something like a party system of game play. Instead of having one character to play you were actually controlling all four of the Ninja Turtles, and could switch between them as needed. Since each of the turtles had special weapons and attacks it gave the game a very RPG type feel to it since if you wanted a sword you'd select Leo, and if you wanted a staff you would select Don to start out with. When one of the turtls was killed the game would select the next turtle in line. Although, you could usually switch between all four of them during the game. We haven't anything like this at all in the audio games community until Entombed came along and offered a party system. However, we saw the evolution of this in mainstream side-scrollers over 20 years ago. I guess what I'm saying is a few members on this list have said in the past they felt side-scrollers were boring, too simplistic, and found them very uninteristing. I largely suspect such opinions were based on early side-scrollers such as Super Liam and Tarzan Junior that haven't remotely reached their greater potential as side-scrollers. There is so much that can be done such as random items, random enemies, alternative routes to complete, a party system, various traps, alternative levels based on actions taken in the game, etc. There is a huge list of things that could be done to make audio side-scrollers more enjoyable and more like the mainstream side-scrollers out there. What's more after I took my survey I discovered that many blind/low vision gamers tend to want an easy system of navigation such as left/right and up/down like Mysteries of the Ancients rather than a more complex FPS style of navigation. Many told me that games like Shades of Doom is too confusing to play, they get lost, and for that reason they don't like the game that well. They specifically wanted to see more side-scrollers like MOTA that have FPS type elements, extra features, but not necessarily the FPS style of game play. That's certainly something to consider. Especially, since the side-scroller format's full potential hasn't even been tapped yet. Cheers! On 3/17/10, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Agreed Tom. Dynaman and packman talks are actually in the odd catagory of being classic arcade games with a first person view. A couple of crasier retro games designers and more bizarre mainstream games have done this (there was a ps2 game of 3D space invaders), but generally it doesn't happen as much, sinse from a sited point of view either a direct 2D side view or the top down perspective has generally been used for classic games like packman or boulderdash. While I certainly see your point about 3D games such as shades and Sarah, I do think audio 2D games have suffered far more from this lack of a second dimention, which has seriously affected gameplay. Even in the original Monti game, I noticed that there was very litle actual movement in the y axiss, the hole game ran on a system of essentially stratified left/right corridors linked by climbable ladders rather like prince of persia, some levels of original donkey kong or the old C64 classic Freddy. You didn't really have as much free vertical movement though as in something like mario brothers, much less metroid or mega man. Just to illustrate, Take for instance the start of marrio brothers 1 as an example. When you've dealt with the initial goomba you are faced with a ledge above your head. you can walk undernieth it, or jump ontop of it. Walking undernieth will let you jump up and get the mushroom and coin block contained in that ledge, while jumping ontop will let you get the coin block up there, you could, (alternatively), simply run under the ledge and miss the hole lot. Thus already we have three levels of vertical movement, not linked by ladders or anything else, and a
Re: [Audyssey] question about games
Hi Tom. To be honest, while Tmnt (like turrican or metroid), was very advanced for alternate routes, it even featured different perspectives in levels, I was thinking on a much smaller and less profound scale with my example. To put it another way, in all the audio side scrollers thus far, including Monti (and possibly mota), your character only can interact with what is to their left and right. You cannot jump up to a ledge above you, or fall down to one below, much less jump up a series of ledges to go through a complex route. I know that both of your games employed stairs and ladders for vertical movement which was certainly a step in the right direction, but is stil imho far less than what might be achieved in a side scroller in audio. In a game like Mario, you can jump to ledges above you or to one side, fall down onto ledges below (often avoiding enemies on the way). Games like Mega man took this to an extreme, for instance the dreaded moving ledge section in guts man's stage where you had to time your drops from one moving mine cart to the other, or elec man's stage where you had to alternate betwene standard left to right movement, or jumping on progressively higher ledges to scroll upwards. Metroid and turrican really took vertical movement to it's ultimate progression, where making your way through the game required moving left to right, or up or down, in any number of combinations. I remember for instance one section in Turrican 1 which was shaped like a square. you walked across the bottom, then jumped up some ledges at the side, then had to make your way across some ledges at the top to the top left hand corner exactly above where you entered, however if you fell, you'd be on the bottom again. This was why Turrican was probably the game that really made me fall in love with gaming (and weerd miner music chords), at the age of nine, the feeling of totally unrestricted movement and exploration, even though the game featured comparatively symple arcade style gameplay, with only a choice of two or three basic shooting weapons (a third was added in Turrican 2), a close range but multi directional surround shot weapon, and three special limited use weapons. Actually, I think Mota already has more weapon choice than Turrican did, however it was the huge explorable levels (and the award winning music), that means there are stil a bunch of developers who use their free time to produce turrican remakes and extra levels today, 20 years after the game was first released. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] question about games
Hi Dark, Yes, good point. I know exactly what you mean. About the best example I can think of to relate to what you are talking about is Tomb Raider Prophecy. As you may or may not know Tomb Raider Prophecy was a side-scroller released in the late 1990's for the Nintendo Gameboy. While there were plenty of staircases to climb it also featured a series of ledges you need to jump over or jump up and grab. For instance, in level 2 when you enter the ancient mountain temple there are a number of ledges you need to get to. You need to run and jump onto ledges high above you, walk a ways, run and jump onto a higher ledge, and so on. There are also cases where you are standing on a high ledge and need to jump across a chasm to a ledge far below you. This is imho something I've strongly considered for MOTA. Although, I have elected to leave it out of the early levels as I'm not sure how easy or difficult it may be fore a blind gamer to play. It is certainly something I'm willing to try though. In fact, now the the updated Genesis Engine written in C++ is just about ready to use I could redraw level one with more ledges and things of that nature if you would like. Cheers! On 3/17/10, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. To be honest, while Tmnt (like turrican or metroid), was very advanced for alternate routes, it even featured different perspectives in levels, I was thinking on a much smaller and less profound scale with my example. To put it another way, in all the audio side scrollers thus far, including Monti (and possibly mota), your character only can interact with what is to their left and right. You cannot jump up to a ledge above you, or fall down to one below, much less jump up a series of ledges to go through a complex route. I know that both of your games employed stairs and ladders for vertical movement which was certainly a step in the right direction, but is stil imho far less than what might be achieved in a side scroller in audio. In a game like Mario, you can jump to ledges above you or to one side, fall down onto ledges below (often avoiding enemies on the way). Games like Mega man took this to an extreme, for instance the dreaded moving ledge section in guts man's stage where you had to time your drops from one moving mine cart to the other, or elec man's stage where you had to alternate betwene standard left to right movement, or jumping on progressively higher ledges to scroll upwards. Metroid and turrican really took vertical movement to it's ultimate progression, where making your way through the game required moving left to right, or up or down, in any number of combinations. I remember for instance one section in Turrican 1 which was shaped like a square. you walked across the bottom, then jumped up some ledges at the side, then had to make your way across some ledges at the top to the top left hand corner exactly above where you entered, however if you fell, you'd be on the bottom again. This was why Turrican was probably the game that really made me fall in love with gaming (and weerd miner music chords), at the age of nine, the feeling of totally unrestricted movement and exploration, even though the game featured comparatively symple arcade style gameplay, with only a choice of two or three basic shooting weapons (a third was added in Turrican 2), a close range but multi directional surround shot weapon, and three special limited use weapons. Actually, I think Mota already has more weapon choice than Turrican did, however it was the huge explorable levels (and the award winning music), that means there are stil a bunch of developers who use their free time to produce turrican remakes and extra levels today, 20 years after the game was first released. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] question about games
Well Tom, I've not really heard of or played that tomb rader game you mention (with ledge grabbing it rather sounds like prince of persia), but this is indeed what I'm talking about. I have been considering this issue ever sinse I first playeed syperliam. The principle problem is how to show a ledge which is within jumping or falling distance to the right or left, but above or below the characters' initial position, while stil showing what may be horizontally to the right or left simultaniously. Some sort of verbal mapping might work, but this would not show the initial ledge position, and having to constantly look at verbal maps might become tedius and break up game flow. the best idea I could think of, was having a ledge indicator sound similar to the turn indicators in fp games. I thought possibly the sound's pitch could alter higher or lower for higher or lower ledges, and only respond to ledges immediately within jumping range of your character. Thus, for the mario example of three stacked ledges, you are walking to the right and hear a high pitched sound from the right speaker. You've not recieved a crumble ledge warning, so you know you can continue walking right, however you've just heard the indicator sound, so know there is a ledge above you to jump to. You jump up, and find another ledge above that. When coming down, the process is the same, but with a lower pitched sound. By limiting the view essentially only to those ledges you could jump or fall to, ie, those in your immediate area, you thus limit complexity, afterall, you can find out what's above the current ledge by jumping up there and don't really need it indicated. The only issue that occurred to me for a game like mota, was how to fit this into the theme of the game. I would suggest utilizing wind sounds of differing pitches as indicators, - however wind is already used to indicate pit falls. Perhaps a beeping sound of various pitches could be used similar to those which indicate weapon pickups (afterall, it'd make sense for dr. carter to have a sonar tracker with her)k, or maybe a creaking sound for the crumbling temple supports. Alternately, you could change or remove the pit sound, and use wind as ledge indicators. As for complexity, I think provided that the ledge indicator was limited to only showing one ledge above you and a safe floor below, ie, one high and one low sound, it wouldn't cause too much complexity issues, though would add considderably to the exploration possibilities of the game, not to mention be a nice step in the right direction for future audio side scrollers. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] question about games
Hi Thomas, Personally, I think you should leave it to Level 3. Leave Level 1 as it is, is my advice, though this sounds quite intreeging. Best Regards, hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 8:16 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] question about games Hi Dark, Yes, good point. I know exactly what you mean. About the best example I can think of to relate to what you are talking about is Tomb Raider Prophecy. As you may or may not know Tomb Raider Prophecy was a side-scroller released in the late 1990's for the Nintendo Gameboy. While there were plenty of staircases to climb it also featured a series of ledges you need to jump over or jump up and grab. For instance, in level 2 when you enter the ancient mountain temple there are a number of ledges you need to get to. You need to run and jump onto ledges high above you, walk a ways, run and jump onto a higher ledge, and so on. There are also cases where you are standing on a high ledge and need to jump across a chasm to a ledge far below you. This is imho something I've strongly considered for MOTA. Although, I have elected to leave it out of the early levels as I'm not sure how easy or difficult it may be fore a blind gamer to play. It is certainly something I'm willing to try though. In fact, now the the updated Genesis Engine written in C++ is just about ready to use I could redraw level one with more ledges and things of that nature if you would like. Cheers! On 3/17/10, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. To be honest, while Tmnt (like turrican or metroid), was very advanced for alternate routes, it even featured different perspectives in levels, I was thinking on a much smaller and less profound scale with my example. To put it another way, in all the audio side scrollers thus far, including Monti (and possibly mota), your character only can interact with what is to their left and right. You cannot jump up to a ledge above you, or fall down to one below, much less jump up a series of ledges to go through a complex route. I know that both of your games employed stairs and ladders for vertical movement which was certainly a step in the right direction, but is stil imho far less than what might be achieved in a side scroller in audio. In a game like Mario, you can jump to ledges above you or to one side, fall down onto ledges below (often avoiding enemies on the way). Games like Mega man took this to an extreme, for instance the dreaded moving ledge section in guts man's stage where you had to time your drops from one moving mine cart to the other, or elec man's stage where you had to alternate betwene standard left to right movement, or jumping on progressively higher ledges to scroll upwards. Metroid and turrican really took vertical movement to it's ultimate progression, where making your way through the game required moving left to right, or up or down, in any number of combinations. I remember for instance one section in Turrican 1 which was shaped like a square. you walked across the bottom, then jumped up some ledges at the side, then had to make your way across some ledges at the top to the top left hand corner exactly above where you entered, however if you fell, you'd be on the bottom again. This was why Turrican was probably the game that really made me fall in love with gaming (and weerd miner music chords), at the age of nine, the feeling of totally unrestricted movement and exploration, even though the game featured comparatively symple arcade style gameplay, with only a choice of two or three basic shooting weapons (a third was added in Turrican 2), a close range but multi directional surround shot weapon, and three special limited use weapons. Actually, I think Mota already has more weapon choice than Turrican did, however it was the huge explorable levels (and the award winning music), that means there are stil a bunch of developers who use their free time to produce turrican remakes and extra levels today, 20 years after the game was first released. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can
Re: [Audyssey] question about games
As MOTA might get more difficult and complex as we progress through it, maybe this idea could be incorporated somewhere near the end of the game, unless other challenges are in the evil mind of Thomas Ward that would be harder. --- In God we trust. - Original Message - From: Hayden Presley hdpres...@hotmail.com To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 9:41 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] question about games Hi Thomas, Personally, I think you should leave it to Level 3. Leave Level 1 as it is, is my advice, though this sounds quite intreeging. Best Regards, hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 8:16 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] question about games Hi Dark, Yes, good point. I know exactly what you mean. About the best example I can think of to relate to what you are talking about is Tomb Raider Prophecy. As you may or may not know Tomb Raider Prophecy was a side-scroller released in the late 1990's for the Nintendo Gameboy. While there were plenty of staircases to climb it also featured a series of ledges you need to jump over or jump up and grab. For instance, in level 2 when you enter the ancient mountain temple there are a number of ledges you need to get to. You need to run and jump onto ledges high above you, walk a ways, run and jump onto a higher ledge, and so on. There are also cases where you are standing on a high ledge and need to jump across a chasm to a ledge far below you. This is imho something I've strongly considered for MOTA. Although, I have elected to leave it out of the early levels as I'm not sure how easy or difficult it may be fore a blind gamer to play. It is certainly something I'm willing to try though. In fact, now the the updated Genesis Engine written in C++ is just about ready to use I could redraw level one with more ledges and things of that nature if you would like. Cheers! On 3/17/10, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. To be honest, while Tmnt (like turrican or metroid), was very advanced for alternate routes, it even featured different perspectives in levels, I was thinking on a much smaller and less profound scale with my example. To put it another way, in all the audio side scrollers thus far, including Monti (and possibly mota), your character only can interact with what is to their left and right. You cannot jump up to a ledge above you, or fall down to one below, much less jump up a series of ledges to go through a complex route. I know that both of your games employed stairs and ladders for vertical movement which was certainly a step in the right direction, but is stil imho far less than what might be achieved in a side scroller in audio. In a game like Mario, you can jump to ledges above you or to one side, fall down onto ledges below (often avoiding enemies on the way). Games like Mega man took this to an extreme, for instance the dreaded moving ledge section in guts man's stage where you had to time your drops from one moving mine cart to the other, or elec man's stage where you had to alternate betwene standard left to right movement, or jumping on progressively higher ledges to scroll upwards. Metroid and turrican really took vertical movement to it's ultimate progression, where making your way through the game required moving left to right, or up or down, in any number of combinations. I remember for instance one section in Turrican 1 which was shaped like a square. you walked across the bottom, then jumped up some ledges at the side, then had to make your way across some ledges at the top to the top left hand corner exactly above where you entered, however if you fell, you'd be on the bottom again. This was why Turrican was probably the game that really made me fall in love with gaming (and weerd miner music chords), at the age of nine, the feeling of totally unrestricted movement and exploration, even though the game featured comparatively symple arcade style gameplay, with only a choice of two or three basic shooting weapons (a third was added in Turrican 2), a close range but multi directional surround shot weapon, and three special limited use weapons. Actually, I think Mota already has more weapon choice than Turrican did, however it was the huge explorable levels (and the award winning music), that means there are stil a bunch of developers who use their free time to produce turrican remakes and extra levels today, 20 years after the game was first released. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched
Re: [Audyssey] question about games
hi Charles. The suggestion isn't really about complexity or challenge, it's more a question of basic layout and allowing for exploration. I'd be happy for Tom to leave level 1 as is, because it's a fun level, but this sort of business with highlighting ledges above and below you would be good for any audio side scroller, and make it closer to the 2D graffical varients. beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Charles Rivard woofer...@sbcglobal.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 2:46 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] question about games As MOTA might get more difficult and complex as we progress through it, maybe this idea could be incorporated somewhere near the end of the game, unless other challenges are in the evil mind of Thomas Ward that would be harder. --- In God we trust. - Original Message - From: Hayden Presley hdpres...@hotmail.com To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 9:41 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] question about games Hi Thomas, Personally, I think you should leave it to Level 3. Leave Level 1 as it is, is my advice, though this sounds quite intreeging. Best Regards, hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 8:16 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] question about games Hi Dark, Yes, good point. I know exactly what you mean. About the best example I can think of to relate to what you are talking about is Tomb Raider Prophecy. As you may or may not know Tomb Raider Prophecy was a side-scroller released in the late 1990's for the Nintendo Gameboy. While there were plenty of staircases to climb it also featured a series of ledges you need to jump over or jump up and grab. For instance, in level 2 when you enter the ancient mountain temple there are a number of ledges you need to get to. You need to run and jump onto ledges high above you, walk a ways, run and jump onto a higher ledge, and so on. There are also cases where you are standing on a high ledge and need to jump across a chasm to a ledge far below you. This is imho something I've strongly considered for MOTA. Although, I have elected to leave it out of the early levels as I'm not sure how easy or difficult it may be fore a blind gamer to play. It is certainly something I'm willing to try though. In fact, now the the updated Genesis Engine written in C++ is just about ready to use I could redraw level one with more ledges and things of that nature if you would like. Cheers! On 3/17/10, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. To be honest, while Tmnt (like turrican or metroid), was very advanced for alternate routes, it even featured different perspectives in levels, I was thinking on a much smaller and less profound scale with my example. To put it another way, in all the audio side scrollers thus far, including Monti (and possibly mota), your character only can interact with what is to their left and right. You cannot jump up to a ledge above you, or fall down to one below, much less jump up a series of ledges to go through a complex route. I know that both of your games employed stairs and ladders for vertical movement which was certainly a step in the right direction, but is stil imho far less than what might be achieved in a side scroller in audio. In a game like Mario, you can jump to ledges above you or to one side, fall down onto ledges below (often avoiding enemies on the way). Games like Mega man took this to an extreme, for instance the dreaded moving ledge section in guts man's stage where you had to time your drops from one moving mine cart to the other, or elec man's stage where you had to alternate betwene standard left to right movement, or jumping on progressively higher ledges to scroll upwards. Metroid and turrican really took vertical movement to it's ultimate progression, where making your way through the game required moving left to right, or up or down, in any number of combinations. I remember for instance one section in Turrican 1 which was shaped like a square. you walked across the bottom, then jumped up some ledges at the side, then had to make your way across some ledges at the top to the top left hand corner exactly above where you entered, however if you fell, you'd be on the bottom again. This was why Turrican was probably the game that really made me fall in love with gaming (and weerd miner music chords), at the age of nine, the feeling of totally unrestricted movement and exploration, even though the game featured comparatively symple arcade style gameplay, with only a choice of two or three basic shooting weapons (a third was added in Turrican 2), a close range but multi directional surround shot weapon, and three special limited use weapons. Actually, I think Mota
Re: [Audyssey] question about games
Hi Dark, Actually Mysteries of the Ancients already has a specific ledge indecator. It basically is the sound of dripping water as you approach a ledge. I could quite easily raise or lower the pitch of the dripping ledge to indicate weather or not there is a high or low hanging ledge there. However, i suspect one reason you haven't noticed it is that the ledge sound works so well as general background ambience you might not have noticed it surves a double purpose in the game. Upon reading your e-mail I took a look at MOTA beta 10. I noticed for some reason the ledge indicator sound isn't listed in the sound descriptions menu. I guess that's something I will have to correct in beta 11. Which is about the easiest thing I have to do compared to all the work that went into creating the new C++ version of the engine. Anyway, I think it would be fairly easy to add more ledges like this to MOTA and use the dripping ledges as an easy indecator of where the ledge is in relation to you. Although, I'd have to exchange the background ambience for something else as it has some dripping water in it too which could be confusing. However, it should be fairly easy to do. Cheers! On 3/17/10, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Well Tom, I've not really heard of or played that tomb rader game you mention (with ledge grabbing it rather sounds like prince of persia), but this is indeed what I'm talking about. I have been considering this issue ever sinse I first playeed syperliam. The principle problem is how to show a ledge which is within jumping or falling distance to the right or left, but above or below the characters' initial position, while stil showing what may be horizontally to the right or left simultaniously. Some sort of verbal mapping might work, but this would not show the initial ledge position, and having to constantly look at verbal maps might become tedius and break up game flow. the best idea I could think of, was having a ledge indicator sound similar to the turn indicators in fp games. I thought possibly the sound's pitch could alter higher or lower for higher or lower ledges, and only respond to ledges immediately within jumping range of your character. Thus, for the mario example of three stacked ledges, you are walking to the right and hear a high pitched sound from the right speaker. You've not recieved a crumble ledge warning, so you know you can continue walking right, however you've just heard the indicator sound, so know there is a ledge above you to jump to. You jump up, and find another ledge above that. When coming down, the process is the same, but with a lower pitched sound. By limiting the view essentially only to those ledges you could jump or fall to, ie, those in your immediate area, you thus limit complexity, afterall, you can find out what's above the current ledge by jumping up there and don't really need it indicated. The only issue that occurred to me for a game like mota, was how to fit this into the theme of the game. I would suggest utilizing wind sounds of differing pitches as indicators, - however wind is already used to indicate pit falls. Perhaps a beeping sound of various pitches could be used similar to those which indicate weapon pickups (afterall, it'd make sense for dr. carter to have a sonar tracker with her)k, or maybe a creaking sound for the crumbling temple supports. Alternately, you could change or remove the pit sound, and use wind as ledge indicators. As for complexity, I think provided that the ledge indicator was limited to only showing one ledge above you and a safe floor below, ie, one high and one low sound, it wouldn't cause too much complexity issues, though would add considderably to the exploration possibilities of the game, not to mention be a nice step in the right direction for future audio side scrollers. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] question about games
Hi, Yeah, how about making Athena unbeatable? Hmmm...that'd be interesting, and Thomas might be on the run quite soon, considering myself and others would be screaming ans screeching about getting our money back. Best regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Charles Rivard Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 9:47 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] question about games As MOTA might get more difficult and complex as we progress through it, maybe this idea could be incorporated somewhere near the end of the game, unless other challenges are in the evil mind of Thomas Ward that would be harder. --- In God we trust. - Original Message - From: Hayden Presley hdpres...@hotmail.com To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 9:41 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] question about games Hi Thomas, Personally, I think you should leave it to Level 3. Leave Level 1 as it is, is my advice, though this sounds quite intreeging. Best Regards, hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 8:16 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] question about games Hi Dark, Yes, good point. I know exactly what you mean. About the best example I can think of to relate to what you are talking about is Tomb Raider Prophecy. As you may or may not know Tomb Raider Prophecy was a side-scroller released in the late 1990's for the Nintendo Gameboy. While there were plenty of staircases to climb it also featured a series of ledges you need to jump over or jump up and grab. For instance, in level 2 when you enter the ancient mountain temple there are a number of ledges you need to get to. You need to run and jump onto ledges high above you, walk a ways, run and jump onto a higher ledge, and so on. There are also cases where you are standing on a high ledge and need to jump across a chasm to a ledge far below you. This is imho something I've strongly considered for MOTA. Although, I have elected to leave it out of the early levels as I'm not sure how easy or difficult it may be fore a blind gamer to play. It is certainly something I'm willing to try though. In fact, now the the updated Genesis Engine written in C++ is just about ready to use I could redraw level one with more ledges and things of that nature if you would like. Cheers! On 3/17/10, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. To be honest, while Tmnt (like turrican or metroid), was very advanced for alternate routes, it even featured different perspectives in levels, I was thinking on a much smaller and less profound scale with my example. To put it another way, in all the audio side scrollers thus far, including Monti (and possibly mota), your character only can interact with what is to their left and right. You cannot jump up to a ledge above you, or fall down to one below, much less jump up a series of ledges to go through a complex route. I know that both of your games employed stairs and ladders for vertical movement which was certainly a step in the right direction, but is stil imho far less than what might be achieved in a side scroller in audio. In a game like Mario, you can jump to ledges above you or to one side, fall down onto ledges below (often avoiding enemies on the way). Games like Mega man took this to an extreme, for instance the dreaded moving ledge section in guts man's stage where you had to time your drops from one moving mine cart to the other, or elec man's stage where you had to alternate betwene standard left to right movement, or jumping on progressively higher ledges to scroll upwards. Metroid and turrican really took vertical movement to it's ultimate progression, where making your way through the game required moving left to right, or up or down, in any number of combinations. I remember for instance one section in Turrican 1 which was shaped like a square. you walked across the bottom, then jumped up some ledges at the side, then had to make your way across some ledges at the top to the top left hand corner exactly above where you entered, however if you fell, you'd be on the bottom again. This was why Turrican was probably the game that really made me fall in love with gaming (and weerd miner music chords), at the age of nine, the feeling of totally unrestricted movement and exploration, even though the game featured comparatively symple arcade style gameplay, with only a choice of two or three basic shooting weapons (a third was added in Turrican 2), a close range but multi directional surround shot weapon, and three special limited use weapons. Actually, I think Mota already has more weapon choice than Turrican did, however it was the huge explorable levels
Re: [Audyssey] question about games
Hi Charles, Well, this isn't necessarily about game complexity or challenge, but how we, as game developers, can convey the same sort of information to a blind gamer through audio as a sighted gamer would get by looking at the screen. Having a more or less advanced 2d layout happens to be one of those things lacking in audio games, and hasn't really been tried before in an audio only format. Since I have already mentioned Tomb Raider Prophecy as an example in an earlier message I'll continue to use it here as an example of what we are talking about. When you play a game like Tomb Raider Prophecy you are shown a 2d vista of various cliffs, ledges, pitfalls, etc. That is having items above and below your current position. You might have to take a rather long running jump to get up onto a low hanging ledge, catch it, and then use control+up arrow to pull yourself onto it. You then might take a few steps left and use up arrow to skale the cliffside to get up to a higher level to grab a med kit sitting up there. Once you get it you can get off the cliff by running right, take a long leep from the top of that ledge, down to a lower ledge to the right and below your position, and jump from there back down to the ground level. This type of layout isn't unusual for mainstream games, but hasn't even been seriously attempted by any audio game developer So bottom line Dark was wondering how we could indicate this type of game layout with ledges or cliffs above and possably below your current location. Especially, if you have to take a long running jump to jump up and catch it, or take a running jump to clear a very large gap between two different levels and ledges. After all we don't have the advantage of sight and can't see that ledge b is very far away from ledge a. The game that really comes to mind here is Monkey Business. In level 4 you have to cross a series of ledges to get to the teleporter. So far I know of know one who has mastered that level, and one reason is James North didn't give us enough verbal or sound feedback to quite see the level as a whole, or figure out how things relate to each other in the game world. I for one think it could have been done differently and made things less complicated. Were it a mainstream video game there would be more information given just by looking at it visually. Somehow a game developer needs to convey the exact same visual information via audio or verbal directions. Cheers! On 3/17/10, Charles Rivard woofer...@sbcglobal.net wrote: As MOTA might get more difficult and complex as we progress through it, maybe this idea could be incorporated somewhere near the end of the game, unless other challenges are in the evil mind of Thomas Ward that would be harder. --- In God we trust. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] question about games
Hi. Exactly, this was entirely regarding conveying more information to the player in audio about a 2D playing area, and thus making games which are more interesting and complex to play. I really wasn't thinking in terms of running jumps or cliff scaling tom, though these might be possible using a variety of graded pitch to indicate hight above the player, and also letting you know when scaling a cliff where the ledges are so that you know when to jump off. In general though, this is entirely an area which needs more considderation. Btw, I've never even completed the first level of monkey business. i find the audio navigation tools in the game horribly imprecise and with the inherent difficulties I have comprehending spaces, the sonar isn't too helpful either. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Charles Rivard woofer...@sbcglobal.net; Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 3:46 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] question about games Hi Charles, Well, this isn't necessarily about game complexity or challenge, but how we, as game developers, can convey the same sort of information to a blind gamer through audio as a sighted gamer would get by looking at the screen. Having a more or less advanced 2d layout happens to be one of those things lacking in audio games, and hasn't really been tried before in an audio only format. Since I have already mentioned Tomb Raider Prophecy as an example in an earlier message I'll continue to use it here as an example of what we are talking about. When you play a game like Tomb Raider Prophecy you are shown a 2d vista of various cliffs, ledges, pitfalls, etc. That is having items above and below your current position. You might have to take a rather long running jump to get up onto a low hanging ledge, catch it, and then use control+up arrow to pull yourself onto it. You then might take a few steps left and use up arrow to skale the cliffside to get up to a higher level to grab a med kit sitting up there. Once you get it you can get off the cliff by running right, take a long leep from the top of that ledge, down to a lower ledge to the right and below your position, and jump from there back down to the ground level. This type of layout isn't unusual for mainstream games, but hasn't even been seriously attempted by any audio game developer So bottom line Dark was wondering how we could indicate this type of game layout with ledges or cliffs above and possably below your current location. Especially, if you have to take a long running jump to jump up and catch it, or take a running jump to clear a very large gap between two different levels and ledges. After all we don't have the advantage of sight and can't see that ledge b is very far away from ledge a. The game that really comes to mind here is Monkey Business. In level 4 you have to cross a series of ledges to get to the teleporter. So far I know of know one who has mastered that level, and one reason is James North didn't give us enough verbal or sound feedback to quite see the level as a whole, or figure out how things relate to each other in the game world. I for one think it could have been done differently and made things less complicated. Were it a mainstream video game there would be more information given just by looking at it visually. Somehow a game developer needs to convey the exact same visual information via audio or verbal directions. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] question about games
Hi Tom. Indeed, i didn't notice the dripping water in Mota because I assumed it was part of the ambience, though I did notice it back in Montizuma's return, so I should've really assumed it was there. If you have some other ambience then that should work fine, and allow complex layout of ledges making for more exploration. Just one question though. Is the dripping water indicator only audible when your within jumping distance? if not, then possibly you might considder adding that to the change logue, sinse I can imagine hereing ledges above you and not knowing if you can reach them or not would be a rather confusing situation in the game, especially if you were walking on a lower level benieth a far higher set of ledges which you'd need to go somewhere else to climb. Just a thought on easing the system a bit. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] question about games
Hi. Would GMA Tank Commander count as an fps? Regards: Valiant8086: website valiant8086.com - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward To: Gamers Discussion list Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 10:21 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] question about games Hi Michael, Actually, Entombed is a roguelike RPG type game not a first person game. There are some big differences in the two styles of games from a technical point of view. Anyway, since you wanted to know what FPS type games are out there for the blind I'll mention them below. First, is Sarah and the Castle of Witchcraft and Wizardry by PCS Games. It is an FPS game loosely based on the Harry Potter books and movies, but featuring PCS Games own character Sarah Good who is the main character in the game's story. Second, is Packman Talks also by PCS Games. It is largely based on the old Packman games by Atari, but in an all new audio FPS format for the blind. Third, there is Shades of Doom by GMA Games. As you probably know it is an audio based FPS game loosely based on the game Doom. Although, in many ways it is a completely different game from Doom. Finally, there is Monkey Business by Draconis Entertainment. This is a game where you are sent out to recover a professor's test monkey's and find all the parts to the teleporter. Along the way you get to visit various locations such as the jungle, climb a wall of vines, explore an ancient Aztec temple, have a shootout in the wild west, and much more. It's a pretty cool game all things considered. Also, while I'm thinking of it, there is a game called Teraformer's. I haveknow idea where it can be found, and don't know much about it personally. However, it also belongs in this catagory of games. HTH On 3/15/10, michael barnes c...@samobile.net wrote: i know that en-tomb is the newest game out there and i also know that if it was a video game it would be a first person game. is there any other games out there like that? the last time i was on the list someone had said that the sara castle game was just like in-tomb from the way they was talking. the next question is what other games is there like shade of doom? and what games are out there that would be call first person games? doesn't matter what kind of games they are. -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] question about games
Hi Michael, the games I listed are real time first person action games. As far as real time RPG games like Entombed it is the only one currently out there for us. There are some text based RPG games such as Ancient Domains of Mystery, Nethack, and Angband, but those weren't designed specifically for the blind so have some accessibility issues. Although, they are playable. There are also a few web based RPG games such as Sryth and Kingdom of loathing to. I guess what we really need is something more specific than just RPG games. Are we talking multiuser, web based, text based, audio based, real time, turn based, etc. RPG games are also devided by roguelike and gamebook style adventures. There is a lot of different tcatagories games can be classified by as you can see. Cheers! On 3/15/10, michael barnes c...@samobile.net wrote: just playing en-tomb it seem like a first person game but thanks for the info. then the list of games you gave me are those first person games or rpg? if not then what rpg games are their for the blind? -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] question about games
Hi, No, it wouldn't. Using the mainstream system of classifying games Tank Commander would likely be classified as a real time simulation just like Lone Wolf is. The main difference here being the game is the simulation of driving a tank in combat as apposed to controlling a single soldier, super hero, etc from a complete first person perspective. Does that make sense? On 3/16/10, Valiant8086 valiant8...@lavabit.com wrote: Hi. Would GMA Tank Commander count as an fps? Regards: Valiant8086: website valiant8086.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] question about games
Hi Dark, I forgot about DynaMan myself, but based on the player point of view it could probably be classified under the FPS style. Although, I believe James North classified it as classic arcade. In any case you are right. there are quite a few FPS games now on the market for the audio games community. More than side-scrollers to my count, and neither type have been really pushed to their full potential. So far as I know Mysteries of the Ancients is the only accessible side-scroller to fully explore up/down movement as well as left/right movement if we exclude Montezuma's Revenge which was forcably taken off the market by a few greedy scum bags. Super Liam and Q9 are great games, but the action all seams to use a strict liniar movement system from left to right with a few jumps tossed in for good measure. Mysteries of the Ancients isn't completely liniar requiring to use staircases, ropes, and sometimes rooms are to the left and some are to the right. With FPS we have games like Shades of Doom which does a fantastic job of bringing early FPS titles like Doom to the audio games community. However, it fails to take advantage of the newer fully 3d FPS type games that have areas to explore above and below your current location as well as rooms on the same level of game play. For example, from the very beginning the Jedi Knight games had some degree of 3d movement. You could force jump up to a catwalk, bridge, whatever an dfind a couple of health packs or a secret weapon there. We currently don't have anything like this for the audio games market yet. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] question about games
i know that en-tomb is the newest game out there and i also know that if it was a video game it would be a first person game. is there any other games out there like that? the last time i was on the list someone had said that the sara castle game was just like in-tomb from the way they was talking. the next question is what other games is there like shade of doom? and what games are out there that would be call first person games? doesn't matter what kind of games they are. -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] question about games
Hi Michael, Actually, Entombed is a roguelike RPG type game not a first person game. There are some big differences in the two styles of games from a technical point of view. Anyway, since you wanted to know what FPS type games are out there for the blind I'll mention them below. First, is Sarah and the Castle of Witchcraft and Wizardry by PCS Games. It is an FPS game loosely based on the Harry Potter books and movies, but featuring PCS Games own character Sarah Good who is the main character in the game's story. Second, is Packman Talks also by PCS Games. It is largely based on the old Packman games by Atari, but in an all new audio FPS format for the blind. Third, there is Shades of Doom by GMA Games. As you probably know it is an audio based FPS game loosely based on the game Doom. Although, in many ways it is a completely different game from Doom. Finally, there is Monkey Business by Draconis Entertainment. This is a game where you are sent out to recover a professor's test monkey's and find all the parts to the teleporter. Along the way you get to visit various locations such as the jungle, climb a wall of vines, explore an ancient Aztec temple, have a shootout in the wild west, and much more. It's a pretty cool game all things considered. Also, while I'm thinking of it, there is a game called Teraformer's. I haveknow idea where it can be found, and don't know much about it personally. However, it also belongs in this catagory of games. HTH On 3/15/10, michael barnes c...@samobile.net wrote: i know that en-tomb is the newest game out there and i also know that if it was a video game it would be a first person game. is there any other games out there like that? the last time i was on the list someone had said that the sara castle game was just like in-tomb from the way they was talking. the next question is what other games is there like shade of doom? and what games are out there that would be call first person games? doesn't matter what kind of games they are. -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] question about games
just playing en-tomb it seem like a first person game but thanks for the info. then the list of games you gave me are those first person games or rpg? if not then what rpg games are their for the blind? -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] question about games
Hi michael. Strictly speaking entombed is not first person. First person is when you hear the sounds exactly as the person in the game would, ie, you need to turn around a full 180 degrees to go in another direction rather than just pressing a key to walk a given way as in entombed. The only games currently of this type are shades of doom, terraformers, Sarah, Technoshock, audio quake, mortal maze (though that one is rather symple), Gma tank commander, galaxy ranger and X hour from vip gameszone (though they use a much less complex interface), at certain points in the game (ie in first person mode), sound rts, and possibly to an extent lone wolf in the way it uses sounds relative to the players' position. I might have even missed a couple as it's a common view in audio ;D. For games similar to entombed, ie, games where you press up to go north, down south etc, the ones that occur to me are night of parasite and treasurehunt, sinse you do not turn in those games merely take single steps in the desired direction. of course this is debatable but this is how I've always considdered things. Hth. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: michael barnes c...@samobile.net To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 12:46 AM Subject: [Audyssey] question about games i know that en-tomb is the newest game out there and i also know that if it was a video game it would be a first person game. is there any other games out there like that? the last time i was on the list someone had said that the sara castle game was just like in-tomb from the way they was talking. the next question is what other games is there like shade of doom? and what games are out there that would be call first person games? doesn't matter what kind of games they are. -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] question about games
Damnation tom! I forgot about both packman talks and indeed monkey business. By the same tocan dynaman from draconis probably also counts in the same way packman talks does based on viewpoint. With all the games I mentioned in my other message3, that actually adds up to a surprising number. Btw, terraformers may be found at http://www.pininteractive.com/ links to all the others can be found either in the pcs games list or on the audiogames.net database. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 2:21 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] question about games Hi Michael, Actually, Entombed is a roguelike RPG type game not a first person game. There are some big differences in the two styles of games from a technical point of view. Anyway, since you wanted to know what FPS type games are out there for the blind I'll mention them below. First, is Sarah and the Castle of Witchcraft and Wizardry by PCS Games. It is an FPS game loosely based on the Harry Potter books and movies, but featuring PCS Games own character Sarah Good who is the main character in the game's story. Second, is Packman Talks also by PCS Games. It is largely based on the old Packman games by Atari, but in an all new audio FPS format for the blind. Third, there is Shades of Doom by GMA Games. As you probably know it is an audio based FPS game loosely based on the game Doom. Although, in many ways it is a completely different game from Doom. Finally, there is Monkey Business by Draconis Entertainment. This is a game where you are sent out to recover a professor's test monkey's and find all the parts to the teleporter. Along the way you get to visit various locations such as the jungle, climb a wall of vines, explore an ancient Aztec temple, have a shootout in the wild west, and much more. It's a pretty cool game all things considered. Also, while I'm thinking of it, there is a game called Teraformer's. I haveknow idea where it can be found, and don't know much about it personally. However, it also belongs in this catagory of games. HTH --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] question about games
Hi michael. If you go to www.audiogames.net you can search games by genre, including rpg. Counting brouser based games, there are actually a fair few, though entombed is really the first full game in audio. Hth. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: michael barnes c...@samobile.net To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 2:45 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] question about games just playing en-tomb it seem like a first person game but thanks for the info. then the list of games you gave me are those first person games or rpg? if not then what rpg games are their for the blind? -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] question on games
Shirley, Jim's golf and baseball games are great and well worth a try. running them should be symple just do the following: First, download and install the winkit file. To download it, as previously stated, when asked, click on save and save the file somewhere (for example in your my documents folder, then, open windows explorer with windows key (the one next to the left control key), and E, and find the winkit file, press enter on it and then go through the install process (pressing next all the time should be fine). Once you've got that, your ready to start on Jim's other games. As before, download one and save it in a location, then find it with windows explorer. This time, instead of an installer, you've got an unzip program. Tab around until you get to the message To unzip to the following directory click the unzip button and the unzip button itself. Press enter on that, and you'll have a message that a number of files have been unzipped to the kitchinsinc directory. Now, if you find the kitchinsinc item in your programs menue, you should open the directory and get a self voicing menue with the game of life, and any other games' you've unzipped, baseball and golf included. Hth. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Shirley Starblanket dyna.hender...@sasktel.net To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 12:29 AM Subject: [Audyssey] question on games Hey gamers. I want to play a baseball game, golf game or mathematics games. I tried Jim's site but my hard drive won't accept compressed files, only applications. So, is there a site with those games? Thanks. Sincerely, Shirley --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] question on games
Sean, out of interest why do you suggest reformatting as the answer to any computer related tech support question? Appologies for seeming abrupt, but it just seems someone mentions some slight problem, which might be as much a case of a user not yet knowing the ins and outs of how to work things, and you instantly suggest reformatting, even before we know what the problem is. This seems a little to me like suggesting someone bulldose their house down when they say their front door is stuck. Of course, there are circumstances were reformmatting is necessary, --- but as a last response, not a first. appologies for the comment, it just seems that whenever someone brings up a technical question of any type your answer is reformat and we always have this discussion. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] question on games
I personally use 7zip, but you shouldn't need an extractor to handle Jim's games as their self-extracting archives, just use the unzip button. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: shaun everiss shau...@xtra.co.nz To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 2:05 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] question on games well winzip from www.winzip.com is a good program. www.izarc.org is good for free things. the other extracters can be run normally. though you may have to run as admin or something. At 02:14 p.m. 7/01/2010, you wrote: Um Shirley, I don't know how to say this, but maybe you should ask someone near you to discuss the running of programs, the uses of compressed files and so forth. In short, the compressed file can't be run and shouldn't be run. It is simply used to store files in a single location in a smaller package that keeps download sizes down. For Jim's games you should unzip the winkit.zip file in a folder like c:\temp and install the programs. After that there will be an item in your start menu called kitchensinc where you can play the games from. Extracting the other Kitchensinc games to the right folder will also make them available in the menu in the kitchensinc program. hth. - Original Message - From: Shirley Starblanket dyna.hender...@sasktel.net To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 2:29 AM Subject: [Audyssey] question on games Hey gamers. I want to play a baseball game, golf game or mathematics games. I tried Jim's site but my hard drive won't accept compressed files, only applications. So, is there a site with those games? Thanks. Sincerely, Shirley --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] question on games
wow your second name is format, I think. - Original Message - From: shaun everiss shau...@xtra.co.nz To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 4:04 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] question on games um why exactly will your hard drive not accept compressed files? I suggest you reformat and the problem will go away. Actually why only run standard programs and not compressed. you either have your security system screwed or you just need to reformat or something. At 01:29 p.m. 7/01/2010, you wrote: Hey gamers. I want to play a baseball game, golf game or mathematics games. I tried Jim's site but my hard drive won't accept compressed files, only applications. So, is there a site with those games? Thanks. Sincerely, Shirley --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] question on games
Hello Shirley, When you say my hard drive won't accept compressed files only applications what does that mean exactly? I think rather than assuming this or that won't work on your computer the best thing to do is ask someone on how to solve problems like this as you seam to be having a lot of new computer user issues that have very simple and easy solutions. I don't want to sound condescending, but it really appears to me that you are very new to the computer, and don't have a lot of basic computer user skills. I would strongly recommend finding someone who can sit down with you and explain how to download stuff from the internet, unzip compressed archives, and any other basic computer skills that maybe you are not familiar with yet. It would also really help us if you could tell us what operating system you are using and what screen reader you are using. For example, the way you would do something on Windows XP is a little different on Windows Vista and Windows 7 so it is important to know which you have. I'm certainly willing to help you by e-mail, but that's We are certainly willing to help you, but you have to ask first. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] question on games
Hi all I totally agree, I'd be willing to give whatever assistance I possibly could in the endeavour of gaming. Ron - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 9:23 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] question on games Hello Shirley, When you say my hard drive won't accept compressed files only applications what does that mean exactly? I think rather than assuming this or that won't work on your computer the best thing to do is ask someone on how to solve problems like this as you seam to be having a lot of new computer user issues that have very simple and easy solutions. I don't want to sound condescending, but it really appears to me that you are very new to the computer, and don't have a lot of basic computer user skills. I would strongly recommend finding someone who can sit down with you and explain how to download stuff from the internet, unzip compressed archives, and any other basic computer skills that maybe you are not familiar with yet. It would also really help us if you could tell us what operating system you are using and what screen reader you are using. For example, the way you would do something on Windows XP is a little different on Windows Vista and Windows 7 so it is important to know which you have. I'm certainly willing to help you by e-mail, but that's We are certainly willing to help you, but you have to ask first. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] question on games
Hi Dark, Agreed. Shaun's comment to reformat is way out of line. It appears to me Shirley's problems are just that she isn't familiar with the ins and outs of her computer system and there probably isn't anything seriously wrong with her computer. Instead of assuming there is something technical wrong we should be determining what Shirley's actual problem is and help her to resolve it constructively and not tell her to whipe out her system and begin with a fresh install of Windows unnecessarily. As you said there are times when a refomat is absolutely necessary, but this doesn't look like one of them. A case in point. I recently had to reformat one of my computers because a worm had infected the system and mangled the operating system. Nothing was lost, but I had no choice but to blow Windows away and install the operating system from scratch. In fact, I was so sick and tired of viruses and worms that system no longer is running Windows and is now running Linux instead. I sort of fixed the virus/worm problem perminately for that computer. Grin On Thu, 2010-01-07 at 08:31 +, dark wrote: Sean, out of interest why do you suggest reformatting as the answer to any computer related tech support question? Appologies for seeming abrupt, but it just seems someone mentions some slight problem, which might be as much a case of a user not yet knowing the ins and outs of how to work things, and you instantly suggest reformatting, even before we know what the problem is. This seems a little to me like suggesting someone bulldose their house down when they say their front door is stuck. Of course, there are circumstances were reformmatting is necessary, --- but as a last response, not a first. appologies for the comment, it just seems that whenever someone brings up a technical question of any type your answer is reformat and we always have this discussion. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] question on games
Hi Dark, True, but on Windows Vista and later you need to run the setup file with admin rights or it will give you an installation error. I suspect if Shirley is using Vista or Windows 7 it is this error she is getting, and in that case it is a simple matter of running the install as administrator instead of standard user. One thing Microsoft did when they released Vista is they adopted a more Unix-like security system and added the user account control polacy manager. This is all well and good, but most people coming from XP have no experience with user right and file permissions. We Linux users have been use to this sort of thing for years so user account control is no big deal, and some of us say it's about time. However, for Windows users not use to it they think of it as a serious pain in the tail. Cheers! On Thu, 2010-01-07 at 08:32 +, dark wrote: I personally use 7zip, but you shouldn't need an extractor to handle Jim's games as their self-extracting archives, just use the unzip button. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] question on games
I seemed to remember from one of her earlier posts that Shirly was using Xp, hence my explanation, though i could well be wrong of course. I personally stil don't see why microsoft have to muck about with all this multi user account sicurity shinanigans, when there are so many people who are just a single person using one machine. While I understand for businesses and institutions user accounts are needed, I don't see why there can't be a basic option to disable this and have everything written as standard. Every serious computer problem I've ever had has been related to user accounts, iether user account errors, my computer starting with the wrong account, files beeing written to the wrong account etc, from my perspective it's just caused nothing but trouble, and it sounds like the future versions of windows just make this worse. I'm afraid Tom you've just provided me with a very convincing arguement not to upgrade to windows 7, - or lynux for that matter. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] question on games
the main benifit of user accounts is that applications can't exicute harmful code on your computer. Also windows form of user account control is not a good example. Actually they made many mistakes among others that the interface is buggy and annoying. As this is not game related I'll stop now. - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: thomasward1...@gmail.com; Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 7:00 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] question on games I seemed to remember from one of her earlier posts that Shirly was using Xp, hence my explanation, though i could well be wrong of course. I personally stil don't see why microsoft have to muck about with all this multi user account sicurity shinanigans, when there are so many people who are just a single person using one machine. While I understand for businesses and institutions user accounts are needed, I don't see why there can't be a basic option to disable this and have everything written as standard. Every serious computer problem I've ever had has been related to user accounts, iether user account errors, my computer starting with the wrong account, files beeing written to the wrong account etc, from my perspective it's just caused nothing but trouble, and it sounds like the future versions of windows just make this worse. I'm afraid Tom you've just provided me with a very convincing arguement not to upgrade to windows 7, - or lynux for that matter. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] question on games
hmmm well truth be told its what I do when I have no idea how to fix something. I had it lucky though for a while was easy to do and I have backups of everything. Since I have not heard an issue where sertain files are not accepted on other drives, of a user's system, etc then there are 2 avenues the user error which could be probably the case where they don't have the right tools for the job then actual computer error. If such an error it could be a virus, or a program or something. In some cases where for example its a long process to reformat I try to solve the issue issues like this have happened to sapi which with another system I resolved though it did take a while. In the other case with a recorder the system did something weird during install and it didn't work unless I fiddled with it some got it working semi ok but then after updating it realising I didn't need the update or lost some function I uninstalled it again. and the same issue. The recorder in question has never worked properly so I have a replacement. However if I ever want to get another recorder like that again I will probably have to reformat. however for now as long as I don't lose both recorders the latter of which does not need software at all I should be ok. In most cases when I do maintain a system in particular those which little kids and those that go all over the net the first thing I do is reformat. this gets rid of any viruses and wastes less time in the fact I know that It can take me a couple days to a week to reinstall rather than take an unknown ammount of time to fix another issue. this was the case in my uncle's system. a good reformat fixed that. But being a del and the fact loads of visual work had to take place before I could use it the second time round I had to take the long road. The basic issues were fixed, that of the updating, cleaning and spyware and virus removal. in fact this was all done in 2 hours. it took me 3 days to trouplechute and fix issues that the system did not run right with some drive display issues. On that note I have been spoilt with the fact that on my previous system if something went wrong all I did on my old system was put in a disk, and push 3 keys at startup. the system was reformatted and nothing was really wrong until it crashed again naturally I have been spoilt. If I find any unknown issue that I can't find the solution about I generally solve first and research later depending on when the system is needed by. So a reformat is always what happens, and if I can find a way to prevent other issues I put it into practice. though, I have had instances, one where myself I did not have the right app loaded, and took it for granted that i had the right settings and never checked I did or not. I put up with the issue, and when it went I reformatted. that was until by chance I manually envoked the settings to fix the issue found that the program was on my drive and I had not loaded it or set it up. the other issue was when I tested some scripts and found bugs. However it took a long time searching for them, and reporting the issue was a snap. I have also got my share of worms in the past. Thankfully with this newish system although I have had my share of klango and system lockups, screen reader crashes mostly on the net, etc I havn't had any real issue. 7/01/2010, you wrote: Sean, out of interest why do you suggest reformatting as the answer to any computer related tech support question? Appologies for seeming abrupt, but it just seems someone mentions some slight problem, which might be as much a case of a user not yet knowing the ins and outs of how to work things, and you instantly suggest reformatting, even before we know what the problem is. This seems a little to me like suggesting someone bulldose their house down when they say their front door is stuck. Of course, there are circumstances were reformmatting is necessary, --- but as a last response, not a first. appologies for the comment, it just seems that whenever someone brings up a technical question of any type your answer is reformat and we always have this discussion. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
Re: [Audyssey] question on games
grin Actually wish I could solve more issues. Although I put myself out as knowing heaps of things all you need do is take away my list boxes, checkboxes buttons and radio controls. through in a regedit, and I will be completely stumped. if its on the screen, if I can run it and if I can fix it with some instructions I can do it. If I need to do a regedit I might be able to do it, probably can. if its downloading and running something yeah I can do it. if its coppying a file depending where it needs to be I can probably do it. finding something maybe. scanning, maybe. However give me something I have no idea of and I am rather in a pickle. And if you restrict what works and whatever then I am as sunk as a drouning destroyer. This does not happen much but the deepist I can get in most windows stuff is surface level. I have some knowledge of the command window a basic of linux, a full on dos because I used it when I was yunger. however in today's world I'm just a shellfish, if I fall off my rock I am finnished and done for. in the early days i was able to push in codes and buttons and i knew sort of what was around now all you need to do is give me a sound issue or something weird and I sink. At 09:36 p.m. 7/01/2010, you wrote: wow your second name is format, I think. - Original Message - From: shaun everiss shau...@xtra.co.nz To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 4:04 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] question on games um why exactly will your hard drive not accept compressed files? I suggest you reformat and the problem will go away. Actually why only run standard programs and not compressed. you either have your security system screwed or you just need to reformat or something. At 01:29 p.m. 7/01/2010, you wrote: Hey gamers. I want to play a baseball game, golf game or mathematics games. I tried Jim's site but my hard drive won't accept compressed files, only applications. So, is there a site with those games? Thanks. Sincerely, Shirley --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] question on games
I'm sorry willem, but in all the years I've used computers I've seen far more problems with user accounts than I have applications creating harmful code, - I backup constantly anyway). IIf this is the purpose, it strikes me the cure is worse than the desease, if ever there was actually a serious enough desease to bother me in the first place. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] question on games
well linux manages security better than windows. in fact windows is trying to get security set right like linux. unfortunately linux does not have uac. Most things are allowed but if you need to access something that needs access well you need the root password. and ofcause you can bypass that with a command with a config that has things you want active in it for easy access to things like shutdown. At 06:00 a.m. 8/01/2010, you wrote: I seemed to remember from one of her earlier posts that Shirly was using Xp, hence my explanation, though i could well be wrong of course. I personally stil don't see why microsoft have to muck about with all this multi user account sicurity shinanigans, when there are so many people who are just a single person using one machine. While I understand for businesses and institutions user accounts are needed, I don't see why there can't be a basic option to disable this and have everything written as standard. Every serious computer problem I've ever had has been related to user accounts, iether user account errors, my computer starting with the wrong account, files beeing written to the wrong account etc, from my perspective it's just caused nothing but trouble, and it sounds like the future versions of windows just make this worse. I'm afraid Tom you've just provided me with a very convincing arguement not to upgrade to windows 7, - or lynux for that matter. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] question on games
This is why I never read his Emails. Bad advice like this infuriates me. --- In God we trust! - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 10:31 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] question on games Sean, out of interest why do you suggest reformatting as the answer to any computer related tech support question? Appologies for seeming abrupt, but it just seems someone mentions some slight problem, which might be as much a case of a user not yet knowing the ins and outs of how to work things, and you instantly suggest reformatting, even before we know what the problem is. This seems a little to me like suggesting someone bulldose their house down when they say their front door is stuck. Of course, there are circumstances were reformmatting is necessary, --- but as a last response, not a first. appologies for the comment, it just seems that whenever someone brings up a technical question of any type your answer is reformat and we always have this discussion. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] question on games
Hi Shaun, Actually, most modrn Linux operating systems don't have or use a root account. Instead they use an admin tool called sudo which allows a user to execute admin commands using a standard account. For example, to install MOTA on Ubuntu Linux you would run the setup like sudo dpkg -i mota-beta11-i386.deb and the game would be installed. Obviously, though you would have to launch the setup from an account that is configured with sudo access. This is pretty much the same concept as the run as administrator option under Windows 7. On Fri, 2010-01-08 at 09:38 +1300, shaun everiss wrote: well linux manages security better than windows. in fact windows is trying to get security set right like linux. unfortunately linux does not have uac. Most things are allowed but if you need to access something that needs access well you need the root password. and ofcause you can bypass that with a command with a config that has things you want active in it for easy access to things like shutdown. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] question on games
Hi Dark, I'm sorry to say that is a pretty jaded position for someone who's only experience is using Windows XP and earlier. Other operating systems like Mac OS and Linux have a completely different approach to multi-user accounts than does Windows. I really wish you would not judge every operating system and multiple user accounts based on your own personal limited experience. Trust me I've used several different operating systems Mac OS, Linux, FreeBSD, Solaris, and Windows and generally having multiple user accounts is no big deal. It is just that the way Microsoft does it in Windows is a pretty poor implimentation of a multi-user environment. Honestly your attitude is like a guy who buys a new car and runs into car troubles. Suddenly he believes every car madewill have the same problems. Obviously, that kind of thinking is unrealistic, and your opinion is equally unrealistic when taken in the wider scheme of things. Cheers! On Thu, 2010-01-07 at 20:37 +, dark wrote: I'm sorry willem, but in all the years I've used computers I've seen far more problems with user accounts than I have applications creating harmful code, - I backup constantly anyway). IIf this is the purpose, it strikes me the cure is worse than the desease, if ever there was actually a serious enough desease to bother me in the first place. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] question on games
Hey gamers. I want to play a baseball game, golf game or mathematics games. I tried Jim's site but my hard drive won't accept compressed files, only applications. So, is there a site with those games? Thanks. Sincerely, Shirley --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] question on games
Um Shirley, I don't know how to say this, but maybe you should ask someone near you to discuss the running of programs, the uses of compressed files and so forth. In short, the compressed file can't be run and shouldn't be run. It is simply used to store files in a single location in a smaller package that keeps download sizes down. For Jim's games you should unzip the winkit.zip file in a folder like c:\temp and install the programs. After that there will be an item in your start menu called kitchensinc where you can play the games from. Extracting the other Kitchensinc games to the right folder will also make them available in the menu in the kitchensinc program. hth. - Original Message - From: Shirley Starblanket dyna.hender...@sasktel.net To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 2:29 AM Subject: [Audyssey] question on games Hey gamers. I want to play a baseball game, golf game or mathematics games. I tried Jim's site but my hard drive won't accept compressed files, only applications. So, is there a site with those games? Thanks. Sincerely, Shirley --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] question on games
um why exactly will your hard drive not accept compressed files? I suggest you reformat and the problem will go away. Actually why only run standard programs and not compressed. you either have your security system screwed or you just need to reformat or something. At 01:29 p.m. 7/01/2010, you wrote: Hey gamers. I want to play a baseball game, golf game or mathematics games. I tried Jim's site but my hard drive won't accept compressed files, only applications. So, is there a site with those games? Thanks. Sincerely, Shirley --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] question on games
well winzip from www.winzip.com is a good program. www.izarc.org is good for free things. the other extracters can be run normally. though you may have to run as admin or something. At 02:14 p.m. 7/01/2010, you wrote: Um Shirley, I don't know how to say this, but maybe you should ask someone near you to discuss the running of programs, the uses of compressed files and so forth. In short, the compressed file can't be run and shouldn't be run. It is simply used to store files in a single location in a smaller package that keeps download sizes down. For Jim's games you should unzip the winkit.zip file in a folder like c:\temp and install the programs. After that there will be an item in your start menu called kitchensinc where you can play the games from. Extracting the other Kitchensinc games to the right folder will also make them available in the menu in the kitchensinc program. hth. - Original Message - From: Shirley Starblanket dyna.hender...@sasktel.net To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 2:29 AM Subject: [Audyssey] question on games Hey gamers. I want to play a baseball game, golf game or mathematics games. I tried Jim's site but my hard drive won't accept compressed files, only applications. So, is there a site with those games? Thanks. Sincerely, Shirley --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] question on games
Hello, Please do not suggest reformatting until we have much more information. Reformatting is a very drastic step, and someone who does not know what they are doing can end up with a very expensive paperweight and lose all of their data. David Chittenden, MSc, CRC, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com shaun everiss wrote: um why exactly will your hard drive not accept compressed files? I suggest you reformat and the problem will go away. Actually why only run standard programs and not compressed. you either have your security system screwed or you just need to reformat or something. At 01:29 p.m. 7/01/2010, you wrote: Hey gamers. I want to play a baseball game, golf game or mathematics games. I tried Jim's site but my hard drive won't accept compressed files, only applications. So, is there a site with those games? Thanks. Sincerely, Shirley --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] question on games
If you've got a newish machine the OS should have software built in that can open those files. So I'm not sure what the issue is. Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of pizza? Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash. - Original Message - From: David Chittenden dchitten...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 9:51 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] question on games Hello, Please do not suggest reformatting until we have much more information. Reformatting is a very drastic step, and someone who does not know what they are doing can end up with a very expensive paperweight and lose all of their data. David Chittenden, MSc, CRC, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com shaun everiss wrote: um why exactly will your hard drive not accept compressed files? I suggest you reformat and the problem will go away. Actually why only run standard programs and not compressed. you either have your security system screwed or you just need to reformat or something. At 01:29 p.m. 7/01/2010, you wrote: Hey gamers. I want to play a baseball game, golf game or mathematics games. I tried Jim's site but my hard drive won't accept compressed files, only applications. So, is there a site with those games? Thanks. Sincerely, Shirley --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] question on games
thats point I forgot that. you can add and extract files. I have always liked external programs but probably because I have used them since 1995 At 05:55 p.m. 7/01/2010, you wrote: If you've got a newish machine the OS should have software built in that can open those files. So I'm not sure what the issue is. Homer: Hey, uh, could you go across the street and get me a slice of pizza? Vender: No pizza. Only Khlav Kalash. - Original Message - From: David Chittenden dchitten...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 9:51 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] question on games Hello, Please do not suggest reformatting until we have much more information. Reformatting is a very drastic step, and someone who does not know what they are doing can end up with a very expensive paperweight and lose all of their data. David Chittenden, MSc, CRC, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com shaun everiss wrote: um why exactly will your hard drive not accept compressed files? I suggest you reformat and the problem will go away. Actually why only run standard programs and not compressed. you either have your security system screwed or you just need to reformat or something. At 01:29 p.m. 7/01/2010, you wrote: Hey gamers. I want to play a baseball game, golf game or mathematics games. I tried Jim's site but my hard drive won't accept compressed files, only applications. So, is there a site with those games? Thanks. Sincerely, Shirley --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] question about games and vista
Thanks, it was the DX file that was missing. Got it working. Now, if only I didn't suck at Sadoku. *smiles* - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 10:08 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] question about games and vista Hi Lisa, Here is just a few trouble shooting tips you can try. 1. Make sure dx8vb.dll is in your c:\windows\system32 directory. If not you will have to grab a copy off of someone who has one, or install it via something like Jim Kitchen's winkit program. 2. Restart the system after doing a game install. Sometimes some games are picky under Vista, and the system needs to be restarted before they will run. 3. If 2 fails attempt to launch the application as administrator. Some games like Troopenum by BSC require this to run properly on some accounts. To run the application as administrator go to the applications icon in the start menu, press the context menu key, arrow to run as administrator, and press enter. Then, the application will be launched using administrator rights. Hth. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] question about games and vista
Hi Lisa, Here is just a few trouble shooting tips you can try. 1. Make sure dx8vb.dll is in your c:\windows\system32 directory. If not you will have to grab a copy off of someone who has one, or install it via something like Jim Kitchen's winkit program. 2. Restart the system after doing a game install. Sometimes some games are picky under Vista, and the system needs to be restarted before they will run. 3. If 2 fails attempt to launch the application as administrator. Some games like Troopenum by BSC require this to run properly on some accounts. To run the application as administrator go to the applications icon in the start menu, press the context menu key, arrow to run as administrator, and press enter. Then, the application will be launched using administrator rights. Hth. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Audyssey] question about games and vista
Hi, all. I just got a new laptop, and it has Windows Vista on it. I downloaded the demo of The Ultimate Sudoku from Adora Entertainment. When I try to run the game, here is what it tells me. It says that an active x cannot create object. Anyone know what that means, and is it just because I'm running Vista? And yes, direct x is installed. Any help would be appreciated. Lisa --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] question about games
Hi Chris, Lonewolf is a World War II submarine game. It comes with 17 stock missions, and because the game can be expanded there are many additional missions that can be downloaded to expand it to at least 99 missions. There is also a Lonewolf sound pack put out by me, USA Games, which improves the sound effects as well. GMA Tank Commander is a modern tank game. You are a lone tank on an island your job is to clear the island of enemy tanks, trucks, copters, etc. It is a darn good game. Both are products of GMA Games and can be downloaded from: http://www.gmagames.com Chris Frahm wrote: What is lonewolf? What is tank commander? Thanks. Chrissie ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
[Audyssey] question about games
What is lonewolf? What is tank commander? Thanks. Chrissie ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] question about games
Lone Wolf is a submarine simulation game. Tank Commander is a tank simulation game. Everything you need to know about both games can be found at www.gmagames.com including demos of the games. - Original Message - From: Chris Frahm [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: gamers discussion list Gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2006 2:12 PM Subject: [Audyssey] question about games What is lonewolf? What is tank commander? Thanks. Chrissie ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
