Re: [Audyssey] This is all crazy
I guess tom could be put as being to expressive. Though about a year ago I realised I was spending to much time online. So distancing myself was in order. Its got to the point where although I don't care for it it doesn't bother me anymore. At 02:02 a.m. 21/07/2011, you wrote: Hi all. I cannot believe what has gone on here, and really how blinded people have been. Many of the responses in the last couple of hours since Thomas left I just can't understand. I think people need to reread what has happened. The person I feel most sorry for is Che. From what I understand and have read this all kicked off because of Thomas having his opinion on programming languages, which he messaged about in terms that were misunderstood by many. To be honest I do think the way Thomas writes can very often seem like he is coming across as superior because of his college training in programming and years of experience etc. I know he offers lots of people advice and fully respect this, but he does preach a lot as well. So Che wrote back expressing his displeasure at Thomas's words and his way of writing. Now if people read Che's message or messages back they will hopefully see that nowhere in this did he personally attack Thomas, just the way Thomas wrote and how it came across to him. Then Thomas basically flew off the handle and started swaring and personally insulting Che, which I thought was disgusting. I wouldn't be at all surprised if we lose another developer here in Che because of Thomas's reaction and others later support for him and open hostilitytowards Che. I think Thomas is really a great guy who has been put under pressure by people too much with regards to bringing out MOTA etc. I do believe this community has itself to blaim a lot for winding up developers and expecting too much. But Thomas's reaction was so over the top and out of order from a list member, but a moderator as well, well frankly its not on. I think its a real shame that MOTA is not going to be worked on for a while at least, and we could lose it forever, as I like the game and was looking forward to it. Thomas has always informed the community too much in a way of what has been going on with MOTA and taking too many suggestions etc on board in my opinion. Making the game how people wanted it not how he wanted it. This has been a lot of his problem, and he has lost the excitment and enjoyment of creating this game because of this. I think Darren in a way has got it spot on about him bringing up a load of stuff in his last message or two, Thomas I mean, about his marriage etc, this is unnecessary and is intentionally or not, an attempt to put the blaim on certain people other than himself. Che, you never personaly insulted Thomas, and I hope otheres realise this. I hope you stay with us and don't take Thomas's disgusting words and personal attacks to heart. Damien I think as a moderator you are being too biast, Thomas is a good guy yes, but he has been totally out of order here regardless of which buttons have been pushed. I am a personal friend of yours and don't wantt to fall out over this but I think you've got it wrong, an you should be discouraging people from attacking Che whether by name or not, and be as objective as you possibly can. I will stop now, for now, I am upset by this whole thing, and hope people will really look at the entire situation rather than just taking sides with the developer who was here first. I think many of you have got it wrong. Cheers Richard --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] This is all crazy
Lol yeah you do especially after the ideas we've just been bouncing around lol -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Jeremy Kaldobsky Sent: 20 July 2011 19:51 To: blindadrenal...@gmail.com; Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] This is all crazy I think hearing back from Che was what we all needed, in order to move past this. Che, I'm glad to hear how calm and understanding you're being. Che and I aren't going anywhere, and Dark has undoubtedly been showered with mail telling him he was without guilt in the matter, so I guess it is time for us to look forward. I, for one, have a LOT! of coding to do, so away I go, lol. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] This is all crazy
I think hearing back from Che was what we all needed, in order to move past this. Che, I'm glad to hear how calm and understanding you're being. Che and I aren't going anywhere, and Dark has undoubtedly been showered with mail telling him he was without guilt in the matter, so I guess it is time for us to look forward. I, for one, have a LOT! of coding to do, so away I go, lol. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] This is all crazy
First of all, to Dark, you had no hand in this whatever man, and frankly I think you would make a great co moderator of this list, much the opposite of your feelings about your posts. Secondly, I am genuinely sad that Thomas has decided to leave the list. My messages to him were more harsh than I normally would send to someone on a public list, but I felt it was required to get a point through to him that he had already missed time and again. I had no idea he would react so violently. I think Thomas is a good dude, and as I stated in my message to him, he has done a lot of good for the community here, and I hope he comes back, and I hope MOTA is a raving success for him. For those of you that feel I drove Thomas away, I encourage you to read what was posted again. I did not personally insult the man, I was pointing out that while he has been going on and on about what an experienced intelligent non lazy programmer should be capable of, his own output has been stuck in neutral for years. So not only were his statements hipocracy, but in putting down other languages that new developers might look into, he was doing harm to the community. instead of a mea culpa, or a reasoned response, he freaked out instead. I just don't think there was any arguing that he was adversely affecting potential new developers and he knew it, so he took the low road. At any rate, it looks like we've all pretty much got our minds made up on the issue one way or the other at this point, so lets get back to gaming, eh? And if anyone talks to Thomas, please let him know I bear no ill will to him for that eloquent cussing he laid on me, I've answered in anger many times myself and regreted it the next day, we're all human. Later all, Che On 7/20/2011 1:06 PM, Jeremy Kaldobsky wrote: Don't worry Richard, I intend to stick around. I have been badgered by Thomas, but fortunately I was never openly sworn at, and personally attacked like he did to Che! I personally believe that, no matter what happened before it, Thomas' post to Che was stepping way over the line. If he hadn't left voluntarily, I would have expected other moderators to ban him over it. Swearing at someone, and attacking them personally is never the answer, no matter what they've said. I also support Che's statements. He was a little harsh, but it wasn't personal attacks. He was standing up against a bully, and I respect that. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] This is all crazy
Hi Jeremy I totally agree again. The key difference for me is that Che was using slightly strong language to have a go at Thomas's words in previous posts whereas thomas was in extreme language attacking Che personally. Cheers Richard Sent from my iPhone On 20 Jul 2011, at 19:06, Jeremy Kaldobsky wrote: > Don't worry Richard, I intend to stick around. I have been badgered by > Thomas, but fortunately I was never openly sworn at, and personally attacked > like he did to Che! I personally believe that, no matter what happened > before it, Thomas' post to Che was stepping way over the line. If he hadn't > left voluntarily, I would have expected other moderators to ban him over it. > Swearing at someone, and attacking them personally is never the answer, no > matter what they've said. > > I also support Che's statements. He was a little harsh, but it wasn't > personal attacks. He was standing up against a bully, and I respect that. > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] This is all crazy
Hello, I am relieved that Jeremy is not leaving. I hope Che stays as well, we're a small community relatively speaking, and I hope we can move on from this day. Dave On 7/20/11, darren harris wrote: > I agree with this. You have the right to stand your ground and just because > someone is a moderator that doesn't give them the right to think they are > beyond recriminations. > > -Original Message- > From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On > Behalf Of Jeremy Kaldobsky > Sent: 20 July 2011 19:06 > To: Gamers Discussion list > Subject: Re: [Audyssey] This is all crazy > > Don't worry Richard, I intend to stick around. I have been badgered by > Thomas, but fortunately I was never openly sworn at, and personally attacked > like he did to Che! I personally believe that, no matter what happened > before it, Thomas' post to Che was stepping way over the line. If he hadn't > left voluntarily, I would have expected other moderators to ban him over it. > Swearing at someone, and attacking them personally is never the answer, no > matter what they've said. > > I also support Che's statements. He was a little harsh, but it wasn't > personal attacks. He was standing up against a bully, and I respect that. > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] This is all crazy
I agree with this. You have the right to stand your ground and just because someone is a moderator that doesn't give them the right to think they are beyond recriminations. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Jeremy Kaldobsky Sent: 20 July 2011 19:06 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] This is all crazy Don't worry Richard, I intend to stick around. I have been badgered by Thomas, but fortunately I was never openly sworn at, and personally attacked like he did to Che! I personally believe that, no matter what happened before it, Thomas' post to Che was stepping way over the line. If he hadn't left voluntarily, I would have expected other moderators to ban him over it. Swearing at someone, and attacking them personally is never the answer, no matter what they've said. I also support Che's statements. He was a little harsh, but it wasn't personal attacks. He was standing up against a bully, and I respect that. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] This is all crazy
Don't worry Richard, I intend to stick around. I have been badgered by Thomas, but fortunately I was never openly sworn at, and personally attacked like he did to Che! I personally believe that, no matter what happened before it, Thomas' post to Che was stepping way over the line. If he hadn't left voluntarily, I would have expected other moderators to ban him over it. Swearing at someone, and attacking them personally is never the answer, no matter what they've said. I also support Che's statements. He was a little harsh, but it wasn't personal attacks. He was standing up against a bully, and I respect that. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] This is all crazy
Lol I thought it was you but I couldn't quite be sure there lol! -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Damien C. Pendleton Sent: 20 July 2011 18:43 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] This is all crazy Hi list, And please excuse me for emailing from my partner's account. She used to check her emails through my computer so I get messages in duplication and sometimes I am not sure which one I am replying to. I shall delete that account off my machine now so as not to confuse me in the future. Lol. Regards, Damien. - Original Message - From: "Tyriannette T. Snowden" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 6:21 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] This is all crazy > Hi Richard and all, > OK, I will publicly apologise and stand corrected about Thomas's reaction > to all of this. When I wrote my email this morning I was in the middle of > broadcasting and Thomas's final resignation and unsubscription > notification caught me before the rest did, and I wrote and responded in > haste and frustration. > I have just gone back and read the archive and was shocked to read how > inappropriately Thomas handled this situation and as co-moderator would > have expected better of him. I was additionally shocked that he could > insult and flame someone as decent as Che and accuse him of attacking and > insulting him. However, also as a member on the USAGames mailing list I > have seen some of the attacks that the guy has been through from members > of the blind community in general, and can see why he feels as frustrated > as he does. > Whether Che said anything out of turn or not, others have also > contributed, both on this list, his other list, and, though I obviously > haven't seen this, privately as well. > Usually, I would have thought Thomas quite logical, reasonable and calm, > and I can't imagine why all this blew out of nothing. > Please bare with me as I return to reading this huge pile of messages that > will undoubtedly present the full story, and I shall then form my opinions > and make my decisions from there. > I do think some of us could've handled the situation better than we did, > including myself. As I said all I can do is apologise for the > misunderstanding on my part. > Regards, > Damien. > > > - Original Message - > From: "Richard Claridge" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 3:02 PM > Subject: [Audyssey] This is all crazy > > >> Hi all. >> I cannot believe what has gone on here, and really how blinded people >> have been. >> Many of the responses in the last couple of hours since Thomas left I >> just can't understand. I think people need to reread what has >> happened. >> The person I feel most sorry for is Che. From what I understand and >> have read this all kicked off because of Thomas having his opinion on >> programming languages, which he messaged about in terms that were >> misunderstood by many. To be honest I do think the way Thomas writes >> can very often seem like he is coming across as superior because of >> his college training in programming and years of experience etc. I >> know he offers lots of people advice and fully respect this, but he >> does preach a lot as well. So Che wrote back expressing his >> displeasure at Thomas's words and his way of writing. Now if people >> read Che's message or messages back they will hopefully see that >> nowhere in this did he personally attack Thomas, just the way Thomas >> wrote and how it came across to him. Then Thomas basically flew off >> the handle and started swaring and personally insulting Che, which I >> thought was disgusting. I wouldn't be at all surprised if we lose >> another developer here in Che because of Thomas's reaction and others >> later support for him and open hostilitytowards Che. >> I think Thomas is really a great guy who has been put under pressure >> by people too much with regards to bringing out MOTA etc. I do believe >> this community has itself to blaim a lot for winding up developers and >> expecting too much. But Thomas's reaction was so over the top and out >> of order from a list member, but a moderator as well, well frankly its >> not on. >> I think its a real shame that MOTA is not going to be worked on for a >> while at least, and we could lose it forever, as I like the game and >> was looking forward to it. Thomas has always informed the community >> too much in a way of what has been going on with MOTA and taking too >> many suggestions etc on board i
Re: [Audyssey] This is all crazy
Hi list, And please excuse me for emailing from my partner's account. She used to check her emails through my computer so I get messages in duplication and sometimes I am not sure which one I am replying to. I shall delete that account off my machine now so as not to confuse me in the future. Lol. Regards, Damien. - Original Message - From: "Tyriannette T. Snowden" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 6:21 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] This is all crazy Hi Richard and all, OK, I will publicly apologise and stand corrected about Thomas's reaction to all of this. When I wrote my email this morning I was in the middle of broadcasting and Thomas's final resignation and unsubscription notification caught me before the rest did, and I wrote and responded in haste and frustration. I have just gone back and read the archive and was shocked to read how inappropriately Thomas handled this situation and as co-moderator would have expected better of him. I was additionally shocked that he could insult and flame someone as decent as Che and accuse him of attacking and insulting him. However, also as a member on the USAGames mailing list I have seen some of the attacks that the guy has been through from members of the blind community in general, and can see why he feels as frustrated as he does. Whether Che said anything out of turn or not, others have also contributed, both on this list, his other list, and, though I obviously haven't seen this, privately as well. Usually, I would have thought Thomas quite logical, reasonable and calm, and I can't imagine why all this blew out of nothing. Please bare with me as I return to reading this huge pile of messages that will undoubtedly present the full story, and I shall then form my opinions and make my decisions from there. I do think some of us could've handled the situation better than we did, including myself. As I said all I can do is apologise for the misunderstanding on my part. Regards, Damien. - Original Message - From: "Richard Claridge" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 3:02 PM Subject: [Audyssey] This is all crazy Hi all. I cannot believe what has gone on here, and really how blinded people have been. Many of the responses in the last couple of hours since Thomas left I just can't understand. I think people need to reread what has happened. The person I feel most sorry for is Che. From what I understand and have read this all kicked off because of Thomas having his opinion on programming languages, which he messaged about in terms that were misunderstood by many. To be honest I do think the way Thomas writes can very often seem like he is coming across as superior because of his college training in programming and years of experience etc. I know he offers lots of people advice and fully respect this, but he does preach a lot as well. So Che wrote back expressing his displeasure at Thomas's words and his way of writing. Now if people read Che's message or messages back they will hopefully see that nowhere in this did he personally attack Thomas, just the way Thomas wrote and how it came across to him. Then Thomas basically flew off the handle and started swaring and personally insulting Che, which I thought was disgusting. I wouldn't be at all surprised if we lose another developer here in Che because of Thomas's reaction and others later support for him and open hostilitytowards Che. I think Thomas is really a great guy who has been put under pressure by people too much with regards to bringing out MOTA etc. I do believe this community has itself to blaim a lot for winding up developers and expecting too much. But Thomas's reaction was so over the top and out of order from a list member, but a moderator as well, well frankly its not on. I think its a real shame that MOTA is not going to be worked on for a while at least, and we could lose it forever, as I like the game and was looking forward to it. Thomas has always informed the community too much in a way of what has been going on with MOTA and taking too many suggestions etc on board in my opinion. Making the game how people wanted it not how he wanted it. This has been a lot of his problem, and he has lost the excitment and enjoyment of creating this game because of this. I think Darren in a way has got it spot on about him bringing up a load of stuff in his last message or two, Thomas I mean, about his marriage etc, this is unnecessary and is intentionally or not, an attempt to put the blaim on certain people other than himself. Che, you never personaly insulted Thomas, and I hope otheres realise this. I hope you stay with us and don't take Thomas's disgusting words and personal attacks to heart. Damien I think as a moderator you are being too biast, Thomas is a good guy yes, but he has been totally out of order here regardless
Re: [Audyssey] This is all crazy
Thomas won't come back, he's been publically shamed on list, most notably by his own hand. The evidence is there for all to see although this goes way back further than today if people care to look. We won't see him again. It's not really a loss. Sooner or later I new he'd shoot himself in the foot by his own actions and he's done it. in a pretty unforgettable way in my opinion!!! -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Amanda Burt Sent: 20 July 2011 18:36 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] This is all crazy I'm not taking sides in this. I was surprised at everyone's Thomas's behavior, especially as he was a moderator. It's a shame people are not able to take criticism in the manner it was meant. I think you're all lovely people and I hope we can come back from this. I do hope that Thomas does come back but he can't now be a moderator as he has broken lots of guidelines. I really hope we can all move on from this and get back to what we should be discussing, that is games. Amanda -- From: "darren harris" Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 5:54 PM To: "'Gamers Discussion list'" Subject: Re: [Audyssey] This is all crazy > Hi Jeremy, > > Well I think the thing people do when they decide to take sides i > think it's a 2 fold thing. > > Firstly you get the people who just spoil for a fight thus they'll > take a side and why not in their opinion. > Secondly I think some people just want him to continue developing what > ever it is he's developing so they take his side so it's seen like > he's got supporters. > > As for your comment about Thomas being left out, well, I have to admit > to thinking that well yes his responses did seem to come across in the > way of "hey what about me! I'm the big guy here!". if that is not the > case then well all I can say, is that's what I perceived, even before > you wrote that so really there's no need to apologise for it. > > When ever there was this new update for mota, all the fan club would > be gathered round saying this and that and the other blab la bla, so > yeah when someosomeone else came along who stole that well all I can > say is well look at the result. > > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the > list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the > list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] This is all crazy
I'm not taking sides in this. I was surprised at everyone's Thomas's behavior, especially as he was a moderator. It's a shame people are not able to take criticism in the manner it was meant. I think you're all lovely people and I hope we can come back from this. I do hope that Thomas does come back but he can't now be a moderator as he has broken lots of guidelines. I really hope we can all move on from this and get back to what we should be discussing, that is games. Amanda -- From: "darren harris" Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 5:54 PM To: "'Gamers Discussion list'" Subject: Re: [Audyssey] This is all crazy Hi Jeremy, Well I think the thing people do when they decide to take sides i think it's a 2 fold thing. Firstly you get the people who just spoil for a fight thus they'll take a side and why not in their opinion. Secondly I think some people just want him to continue developing what ever it is he's developing so they take his side so it's seen like he's got supporters. As for your comment about Thomas being left out, well, I have to admit to thinking that well yes his responses did seem to come across in the way of "hey what about me! I'm the big guy here!". if that is not the case then well all I can say, is that's what I perceived, even before you wrote that so really there's no need to apologise for it. When ever there was this new update for mota, all the fan club would be gathered round saying this and that and the other blab la bla, so yeah when someosomeone else came along who stole that well all I can say is well look at the result. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] This is all crazy
Hi Dave, I believe there is a content filter on Mailman and I have absolutely no objections in logging in the administrative pannel and taking a look. Since the only moderator now is me, there are several changes that I wish to enforce on list and after the message I have read I shall certainly propose these to the list owner and ask for their authorisation to adjust the policies and list settings accordingly. No way would I wish to come back after a hectic day and read messages like this, whether from member or co-moderator again. Regards, Damien. - Original Message - From: "David Mehler" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 3:36 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] This is all crazy Hello, I've moderated mailing lists in the past and one thing that's in my personal opinion a good thing to have is a thick skin. As a moderator in my opinion you have to accept an opinion or position that is different from yours even though you may whole heartedly disagree with it and never want to see it onlist. For example, the topic of Visual Basic, yes it's a no longer supported language by Microsoft as Thomas pointed out, but in the back of his mind or the undertones of his message was he thinking I wish no one would bring up this language ever again? We can't know what he was thinking and this is purely an example, but the moderator's job is not to delve out opinions and punish or moderate those who disagree. I read in a posting earlier this morning that a disagreement went private, and moderation was threatened against a list member and carried out. I can't remember who that member was, but frankly you should have taken that one to the list owner slash other moderators and asked for a majority ruling on it. I say that because it was unfair to the user. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that as a former list moderator I always thought to have two electronic email personas, one the moderator and under a different address than the user. My reason for this is quite simple, a user can say things that a moderator should have to step on and quash. For example, a user insults another user, which I agree this did not happen initially but as the discussion went back and forth frustrations raged that was very apparent. As a moderator that user who insulted the other one should be stopped in the way appropriate to the list's stated policies. Now turn that around, say it was the moderator who for reasons unknown insulted a user. What happens, because it's a moderator what's the user do? If he fires back he's moderated or punished. This is not condusive to the role of a moderator. Like other users before me have stated this has stunned me! I can't think of a word stronger for it. I hope that this level of discourse will not continue. Dave. PS, to the remaining moderators can you please implement some kind of outbound content scanner on your email server so it traps and quarantines swearing messages? In my opinion again, I seem to be qualifying a lot of my statements, but I felt those were totally out of line. On 7/20/11, Richard Claridge wrote: Hi all. I cannot believe what has gone on here, and really how blinded people have been. Many of the responses in the last couple of hours since Thomas left I just can't understand. I think people need to reread what has happened. The person I feel most sorry for is Che. From what I understand and have read this all kicked off because of Thomas having his opinion on programming languages, which he messaged about in terms that were misunderstood by many. To be honest I do think the way Thomas writes can very often seem like he is coming across as superior because of his college training in programming and years of experience etc. I know he offers lots of people advice and fully respect this, but he does preach a lot as well. So Che wrote back expressing his displeasure at Thomas's words and his way of writing. Now if people read Che's message or messages back they will hopefully see that nowhere in this did he personally attack Thomas, just the way Thomas wrote and how it came across to him. Then Thomas basically flew off the handle and started swaring and personally insulting Che, which I thought was disgusting. I wouldn't be at all surprised if we lose another developer here in Che because of Thomas's reaction and others later support for him and open hostilitytowards Che. I think Thomas is really a great guy who has been put under pressure by people too much with regards to bringing out MOTA etc. I do believe this community has itself to blaim a lot for winding up developers and expecting too much. But Thomas's reaction was so over the top and out of order from a list member, but a moderator as well, well frankly its not on. I think its a real shame that MOTA is not going to be worked on for a while at least, and we cou
Re: [Audyssey] This is all crazy
Hi Richard and all, OK, I will publicly apologise and stand corrected about Thomas's reaction to all of this. When I wrote my email this morning I was in the middle of broadcasting and Thomas's final resignation and unsubscription notification caught me before the rest did, and I wrote and responded in haste and frustration. I have just gone back and read the archive and was shocked to read how inappropriately Thomas handled this situation and as co-moderator would have expected better of him. I was additionally shocked that he could insult and flame someone as decent as Che and accuse him of attacking and insulting him. However, also as a member on the USAGames mailing list I have seen some of the attacks that the guy has been through from members of the blind community in general, and can see why he feels as frustrated as he does. Whether Che said anything out of turn or not, others have also contributed, both on this list, his other list, and, though I obviously haven't seen this, privately as well. Usually, I would have thought Thomas quite logical, reasonable and calm, and I can't imagine why all this blew out of nothing. Please bare with me as I return to reading this huge pile of messages that will undoubtedly present the full story, and I shall then form my opinions and make my decisions from there. I do think some of us could've handled the situation better than we did, including myself. As I said all I can do is apologise for the misunderstanding on my part. Regards, Damien. - Original Message - From: "Richard Claridge" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 3:02 PM Subject: [Audyssey] This is all crazy Hi all. I cannot believe what has gone on here, and really how blinded people have been. Many of the responses in the last couple of hours since Thomas left I just can't understand. I think people need to reread what has happened. The person I feel most sorry for is Che. From what I understand and have read this all kicked off because of Thomas having his opinion on programming languages, which he messaged about in terms that were misunderstood by many. To be honest I do think the way Thomas writes can very often seem like he is coming across as superior because of his college training in programming and years of experience etc. I know he offers lots of people advice and fully respect this, but he does preach a lot as well. So Che wrote back expressing his displeasure at Thomas's words and his way of writing. Now if people read Che's message or messages back they will hopefully see that nowhere in this did he personally attack Thomas, just the way Thomas wrote and how it came across to him. Then Thomas basically flew off the handle and started swaring and personally insulting Che, which I thought was disgusting. I wouldn't be at all surprised if we lose another developer here in Che because of Thomas's reaction and others later support for him and open hostilitytowards Che. I think Thomas is really a great guy who has been put under pressure by people too much with regards to bringing out MOTA etc. I do believe this community has itself to blaim a lot for winding up developers and expecting too much. But Thomas's reaction was so over the top and out of order from a list member, but a moderator as well, well frankly its not on. I think its a real shame that MOTA is not going to be worked on for a while at least, and we could lose it forever, as I like the game and was looking forward to it. Thomas has always informed the community too much in a way of what has been going on with MOTA and taking too many suggestions etc on board in my opinion. Making the game how people wanted it not how he wanted it. This has been a lot of his problem, and he has lost the excitment and enjoyment of creating this game because of this. I think Darren in a way has got it spot on about him bringing up a load of stuff in his last message or two, Thomas I mean, about his marriage etc, this is unnecessary and is intentionally or not, an attempt to put the blaim on certain people other than himself. Che, you never personaly insulted Thomas, and I hope otheres realise this. I hope you stay with us and don't take Thomas's disgusting words and personal attacks to heart. Damien I think as a moderator you are being too biast, Thomas is a good guy yes, but he has been totally out of order here regardless of which buttons have been pushed. I am a personal friend of yours and don't wantt to fall out over this but I think you've got it wrong, an you should be discouraging people from attacking Che whether by name or not, and be as objective as you possibly can. I will stop now, for now, I am upset by this whole thing, and hope people will really look at the entire situation rather than just taking sides with the developer who was here first. I think many of you have got it wrong. Cheers Richard --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-un
Re: [Audyssey] This is all crazy
Hi Jeremy, Well I think the thing people do when they decide to take sides i think it's a 2 fold thing. Firstly you get the people who just spoil for a fight thus they'll take a side and why not in their opinion. Secondly I think some people just want him to continue developing what ever it is he's developing so they take his side so it's seen like he's got supporters. As for your comment about Thomas being left out, well, I have to admit to thinking that well yes his responses did seem to come across in the way of "hey what about me! I'm the big guy here!". if that is not the case then well all I can say, is that's what I perceived, even before you wrote that so really there's no need to apologise for it. When ever there was this new update for mota, all the fan club would be gathered round saying this and that and the other blab la bla, so yeah when someosomeone else came along who stole that well all I can say is well look at the result. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] This is all crazy
Hey Richard, I'll give you a tip for castaways, get better Lol so says the guy who still hasn't worked out how to beet it yet! Although I can kill goblins lol so is that worthy of recognition! Rofl! But no I think your message was reasonably written. If Thomas's marriage is in jeopardy then as unfortunate as that may be, he can't go parming blame off to the community at large. That's just trying to shift blame away if blame you wish to call it. At Jeremy, yeah I saw the whole thing whereby Thomas tried number crunching your methods as he seems to do so oh so often, personally I didn't see the relevance in it. lol I don't care if you use pen and paper to code your games if that's what works for you and if the end result is a good one then who really cares? That's not to say people shouldn't talk about programming and the like because through talking you gain understanding and hopefully a bit of knowledge. But yeah I have to say I didn't always think that was his intent. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Richard Claridge Sent: 20 July 2011 17:11 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] This is all crazy Hi Jeremy. Thanks for agreeing with me lol, I did think my email might jst get shot down by everyone and that I would be attacked for writing it. People seem to have totally forgotten or never noticed the way Thomas preaches to other developers, and it is always him who seems to bring up or start these discussions about programming languages. But there we go. Jeremy you were the other developer after Che that I had in mind as one who we might lose over this as I felt you were the next one who got attacked by Thomas, but not as directly and not as personally today anyway. I hope you keep bringing out great game forus. I absolutely love Castaways mate, probably my favourite audiogame along with Lonewolf and Entombed. I still am rubbish at it but there we go. Any tips welcome :). Anyway I will keep this one short, after my last long rambling message. Laters RIch On 7/20/11, Willem Venter wrote: > For the most part I agree with you Jeremy, but what did you acumplish > by saying something like I think thomas feels left out and needs more > attention in the thread of castaways you refer to. It could not > convince him or change anything he already said. > > I hope we can get back to gaming now. > > On 7/20/11, Jeremy Kaldobsky wrote: >> Richard, I am completely behind you on this! Well written, and I was >> personally surprised when I started seeing the messages changing in >> Thomas' >> favor on this. Whether intentional, or not, the extra drama put into >> his last post seems to have blinded people from what was really going >> on. If Thomas was being harassed off-list, by people expecting his >> games to be finished, then that is very unfortunate, but also totally >> unrelated to any of what has just happened between him and Che. >> >> I think people are taking sides, because they aren't paying attention >> to what the issue has been. I'll give an example, that will >> hopefully illustrate the point I am trying to make. If my neighbor >> was a racist, and he was unjustly hurtful to people, it would be >> wrong of me to stand by his side if one of those people started to >> argue with him. Even though he was never mean to me, I have to look >> at the current situation, and admit that he Was! doing wrong to that >> person, or group of people. When people take Thomas' side on this, >> because he was wrote helpful posts, because he worked on games they >> enjoy, or because he is a nice person, then they are making this very >> same mistake. This argument is a result of how he speaks to other >> programmers, so if you are not one, you can't use the fact that he >> was kind to you as defense for his actions. >> >> Excuses have been made, that Thomas is simply misunderstood, but I >> doubt that is the case most of the time. Before I Ever! had any >> personal dealings with Thomas, I read posts where he clearly put down >> other developers, and made himself seem like their superior. I had >> seen this done to other people, and eventually I stepped in to defend >> someone who I felt was being treated especially bad by Thomas. I >> can't remember who it was now, but at the time they were so fed up >> with his posts, that they were considering giving up programming >> altogether. By stepping in to the conversation, I became a target >> myself, and I had Thomas criticizing how I do things. He wouldn't >> stop posting more, so eventually I told him off, and vowed nev
Re: [Audyssey] This is all crazy
Hi Jeremy. Thanks for agreeing with me lol, I did think my email might jst get shot down by everyone and that I would be attacked for writing it. People seem to have totally forgotten or never noticed the way Thomas preaches to other developers, and it is always him who seems to bring up or start these discussions about programming languages. But there we go. Jeremy you were the other developer after Che that I had in mind as one who we might lose over this as I felt you were the next one who got attacked by Thomas, but not as directly and not as personally today anyway. I hope you keep bringing out great game forus. I absolutely love Castaways mate, probably my favourite audiogame along with Lonewolf and Entombed. I still am rubbish at it but there we go. Any tips welcome :). Anyway I will keep this one short, after my last long rambling message. Laters RIch On 7/20/11, Willem Venter wrote: > For the most part I agree with you Jeremy, but what did you acumplish > by saying something like I think thomas feels left out and needs more > attention in the thread of castaways you refer to. It could not > convince him or change anything he already said. > > I hope we can get back to gaming now. > > On 7/20/11, Jeremy Kaldobsky wrote: >> Richard, I am completely behind you on this! Well written, and I was >> personally surprised when I started seeing the messages changing in >> Thomas' >> favor on this. Whether intentional, or not, the extra drama put into his >> last post seems to have blinded people from what was really going on. If >> Thomas was being harassed off-list, by people expecting his games to be >> finished, then that is very unfortunate, but also totally unrelated to any >> of what has just happened between him and Che. >> >> I think people are taking sides, because they aren't paying attention to >> what the issue has been. I'll give an example, that will hopefully >> illustrate the point I am trying to make. If my neighbor was a racist, >> and >> he was unjustly hurtful to people, it would be wrong of me to stand by his >> side if one of those people started to argue with him. Even though he was >> never mean to me, I have to look at the current situation, and admit that >> he >> Was! doing wrong to that person, or group of people. When people take >> Thomas' side on this, because he was wrote helpful posts, because he >> worked >> on games they enjoy, or because he is a nice person, then they are making >> this very same mistake. This argument is a result of how he speaks to >> other >> programmers, so if you are not one, you can't use the fact that he was >> kind >> to you as defense for his actions. >> >> Excuses have been made, that Thomas is simply misunderstood, but I doubt >> that is the case most of the time. Before I Ever! had any personal >> dealings >> with Thomas, I read posts where he clearly put down other developers, and >> made himself seem like their superior. I had seen this done to other >> people, and eventually I stepped in to defend someone who I felt was being >> treated especially bad by Thomas. I can't remember who it was now, but at >> the time they were so fed up with his posts, that they were considering >> giving up programming altogether. By stepping in to the conversation, I >> became a target myself, and I had Thomas criticizing how I do things. He >> wouldn't stop posting more, so eventually I told him off, and vowed never >> to >> argue with him about programming languages again! >> >> Since that time, I've seen him poke at a few other people, but as soon as >> the castaways game started to get popular, there was Thomas, posting a >> huge >> put down of my methods, for no reason whatsoever. Many of you probably >> remember it, as it was not posted long ago. There was no reason to post >> anything about programming languages, but Thomas decided to go off on a >> familiar rant, presumably to point out that my game's success wasn't as >> deserving because it was not done his way. Several people openly posted >> about how inappropriate he was with his negative comments. >> >> Like it or not, Thomas seems to believe that he is better than many other >> developers around here. Instead of letting people do things their own >> way, >> he insists on pressuring others do follow in his footsteps, and won't stop >> even if you tell him you are happy with your own choice. >> >> Please keep this in mind before you take sides. Be fair, and remember >> that >> even if someone wasn't bothering You! personally, it doesn't mean he/she >> wasn't bothering other people in an unfair way. Sorry if people don't >> agree >> with me, but that is how I see it. >> >> --- >> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org >> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >> gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. >> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >> All messages are archived and can be sea
Re: [Audyssey] This is all crazy
Willem, I agree, I shouldn't have had that last sentence in my post. I actually talked to a few people off-list, where I mentioned I shouldn't have put it, because it could easily be taken as insulting. No one seemed to have taken it in an offensive way on the list, otherwise I would have responded with an apology for it. I wasn't trying to convince Thomas to change anything he said, because I already knew he would never change his opinion. In fact, even with that last sentence I shouldn't have included, I feel I did a good job of holding my tongue. After all, Thomas had just hijacked a thread about my game, just so he could inject more of his pushy opinions Again! how I do things. Keep in mind, he knew he had already pushed me to my limit with that in an unrelated discussion. By bringing that up, out of nowhere mind you, I firmly believe it was meant as an insult, and not helpful advice. He pushed his views on me until I told him I was going to stick to my own way. He ignore me, and continued pushing his views on me until I told him I was fed up, and I stopped talking with him. He shows up, for no reason, and again pushes these views in the middle of a post about my new game. Am I wrong for taking it personally? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] This is all crazy
For the most part I agree with you Jeremy, but what did you acumplish by saying something like I think thomas feels left out and needs more attention in the thread of castaways you refer to. It could not convince him or change anything he already said. I hope we can get back to gaming now. On 7/20/11, Jeremy Kaldobsky wrote: > Richard, I am completely behind you on this! Well written, and I was > personally surprised when I started seeing the messages changing in Thomas' > favor on this. Whether intentional, or not, the extra drama put into his > last post seems to have blinded people from what was really going on. If > Thomas was being harassed off-list, by people expecting his games to be > finished, then that is very unfortunate, but also totally unrelated to any > of what has just happened between him and Che. > > I think people are taking sides, because they aren't paying attention to > what the issue has been. I'll give an example, that will hopefully > illustrate the point I am trying to make. If my neighbor was a racist, and > he was unjustly hurtful to people, it would be wrong of me to stand by his > side if one of those people started to argue with him. Even though he was > never mean to me, I have to look at the current situation, and admit that he > Was! doing wrong to that person, or group of people. When people take > Thomas' side on this, because he was wrote helpful posts, because he worked > on games they enjoy, or because he is a nice person, then they are making > this very same mistake. This argument is a result of how he speaks to other > programmers, so if you are not one, you can't use the fact that he was kind > to you as defense for his actions. > > Excuses have been made, that Thomas is simply misunderstood, but I doubt > that is the case most of the time. Before I Ever! had any personal dealings > with Thomas, I read posts where he clearly put down other developers, and > made himself seem like their superior. I had seen this done to other > people, and eventually I stepped in to defend someone who I felt was being > treated especially bad by Thomas. I can't remember who it was now, but at > the time they were so fed up with his posts, that they were considering > giving up programming altogether. By stepping in to the conversation, I > became a target myself, and I had Thomas criticizing how I do things. He > wouldn't stop posting more, so eventually I told him off, and vowed never to > argue with him about programming languages again! > > Since that time, I've seen him poke at a few other people, but as soon as > the castaways game started to get popular, there was Thomas, posting a huge > put down of my methods, for no reason whatsoever. Many of you probably > remember it, as it was not posted long ago. There was no reason to post > anything about programming languages, but Thomas decided to go off on a > familiar rant, presumably to point out that my game's success wasn't as > deserving because it was not done his way. Several people openly posted > about how inappropriate he was with his negative comments. > > Like it or not, Thomas seems to believe that he is better than many other > developers around here. Instead of letting people do things their own way, > he insists on pressuring others do follow in his footsteps, and won't stop > even if you tell him you are happy with your own choice. > > Please keep this in mind before you take sides. Be fair, and remember that > even if someone wasn't bothering You! personally, it doesn't mean he/she > wasn't bothering other people in an unfair way. Sorry if people don't agree > with me, but that is how I see it. > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] This is all crazy
Richard, I am completely behind you on this! Well written, and I was personally surprised when I started seeing the messages changing in Thomas' favor on this. Whether intentional, or not, the extra drama put into his last post seems to have blinded people from what was really going on. If Thomas was being harassed off-list, by people expecting his games to be finished, then that is very unfortunate, but also totally unrelated to any of what has just happened between him and Che. I think people are taking sides, because they aren't paying attention to what the issue has been. I'll give an example, that will hopefully illustrate the point I am trying to make. If my neighbor was a racist, and he was unjustly hurtful to people, it would be wrong of me to stand by his side if one of those people started to argue with him. Even though he was never mean to me, I have to look at the current situation, and admit that he Was! doing wrong to that person, or group of people. When people take Thomas' side on this, because he was wrote helpful posts, because he worked on games they enjoy, or because he is a nice person, then they are making this very same mistake. This argument is a result of how he speaks to other programmers, so if you are not one, you can't use the fact that he was kind to you as defense for his actions. Excuses have been made, that Thomas is simply misunderstood, but I doubt that is the case most of the time. Before I Ever! had any personal dealings with Thomas, I read posts where he clearly put down other developers, and made himself seem like their superior. I had seen this done to other people, and eventually I stepped in to defend someone who I felt was being treated especially bad by Thomas. I can't remember who it was now, but at the time they were so fed up with his posts, that they were considering giving up programming altogether. By stepping in to the conversation, I became a target myself, and I had Thomas criticizing how I do things. He wouldn't stop posting more, so eventually I told him off, and vowed never to argue with him about programming languages again! Since that time, I've seen him poke at a few other people, but as soon as the castaways game started to get popular, there was Thomas, posting a huge put down of my methods, for no reason whatsoever. Many of you probably remember it, as it was not posted long ago. There was no reason to post anything about programming languages, but Thomas decided to go off on a familiar rant, presumably to point out that my game's success wasn't as deserving because it was not done his way. Several people openly posted about how inappropriate he was with his negative comments. Like it or not, Thomas seems to believe that he is better than many other developers around here. Instead of letting people do things their own way, he insists on pressuring others do follow in his footsteps, and won't stop even if you tell him you are happy with your own choice. Please keep this in mind before you take sides. Be fair, and remember that even if someone wasn't bothering You! personally, it doesn't mean he/she wasn't bothering other people in an unfair way. Sorry if people don't agree with me, but that is how I see it. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] This is all crazy
Hello, I've moderated mailing lists in the past and one thing that's in my personal opinion a good thing to have is a thick skin. As a moderator in my opinion you have to accept an opinion or position that is different from yours even though you may whole heartedly disagree with it and never want to see it onlist. For example, the topic of Visual Basic, yes it's a no longer supported language by Microsoft as Thomas pointed out, but in the back of his mind or the undertones of his message was he thinking I wish no one would bring up this language ever again? We can't know what he was thinking and this is purely an example, but the moderator's job is not to delve out opinions and punish or moderate those who disagree. I read in a posting earlier this morning that a disagreement went private, and moderation was threatened against a list member and carried out. I can't remember who that member was, but frankly you should have taken that one to the list owner slash other moderators and asked for a majority ruling on it. I say that because it was unfair to the user. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that as a former list moderator I always thought to have two electronic email personas, one the moderator and under a different address than the user. My reason for this is quite simple, a user can say things that a moderator should have to step on and quash. For example, a user insults another user, which I agree this did not happen initially but as the discussion went back and forth frustrations raged that was very apparent. As a moderator that user who insulted the other one should be stopped in the way appropriate to the list's stated policies. Now turn that around, say it was the moderator who for reasons unknown insulted a user. What happens, because it's a moderator what's the user do? If he fires back he's moderated or punished. This is not condusive to the role of a moderator. Like other users before me have stated this has stunned me! I can't think of a word stronger for it. I hope that this level of discourse will not continue. Dave. PS, to the remaining moderators can you please implement some kind of outbound content scanner on your email server so it traps and quarantines swearing messages? In my opinion again, I seem to be qualifying a lot of my statements, but I felt those were totally out of line. On 7/20/11, Richard Claridge wrote: > Hi all. > I cannot believe what has gone on here, and really how blinded people have > been. > Many of the responses in the last couple of hours since Thomas left I > just can't understand. I think people need to reread what has > happened. > The person I feel most sorry for is Che. From what I understand and > have read this all kicked off because of Thomas having his opinion on > programming languages, which he messaged about in terms that were > misunderstood by many. To be honest I do think the way Thomas writes > can very often seem like he is coming across as superior because of > his college training in programming and years of experience etc. I > know he offers lots of people advice and fully respect this, but he > does preach a lot as well. So Che wrote back expressing his > displeasure at Thomas's words and his way of writing. Now if people > read Che's message or messages back they will hopefully see that > nowhere in this did he personally attack Thomas, just the way Thomas > wrote and how it came across to him. Then Thomas basically flew off > the handle and started swaring and personally insulting Che, which I > thought was disgusting. I wouldn't be at all surprised if we lose > another developer here in Che because of Thomas's reaction and others > later support for him and open hostilitytowards Che. > I think Thomas is really a great guy who has been put under pressure > by people too much with regards to bringing out MOTA etc. I do believe > this community has itself to blaim a lot for winding up developers and > expecting too much. But Thomas's reaction was so over the top and out > of order from a list member, but a moderator as well, well frankly its > not on. > I think its a real shame that MOTA is not going to be worked on for a > while at least, and we could lose it forever, as I like the game and > was looking forward to it. Thomas has always informed the community > too much in a way of what has been going on with MOTA and taking too > many suggestions etc on board in my opinion. Making the game how > people wanted it not how he wanted it. This has been a lot of his > problem, and he has lost the excitment and enjoyment of creating this > game because of this. > I think Darren in a way has got it spot on about him bringing up a > load of stuff in his last message or two, Thomas I mean, about his > marriage etc, this is unnecessary and is intentionally or not, an > attempt to put the blaim on certain people other than himself. > Che, you never personaly insulted Thomas, and I hope otheres realise > this. I hope you stay with us a
