Martin Nordholts schreef:
For this particular button however, I think we are not even talking about a
majority, but rahter as good as _all_ users.
If you ask yourselves, how often do I need to adjust the settings of a
layer, and how often do I just click OK on the dialog, what is your answer?
I have just committed a set of major changes to the UI of the alignment
tool, which make it work mostly like alignment tools found in vector
graphics programs, and hopefully make it esier to use.
The way to use it now is to select layers by clicking on them or sweeping
out a rubber-band rectang
Actually I hadn't, but that was a good idea!
It is great that it is possible, but my hope is that creating a new layer
would be hardcoded as easy instead of putting the responsibility on the end
user to *make* it easy.
I am more or less awaiting comments from a 'high up' person on this subjec
Martin,
Have you considered assigning the "new layer" function to a key? I have assigned
my apostrophe to do just that and, if the need arose, I am quite confident that
I could request 100 new layers faster than my computer could generate them; all
without even leaving the image window.
_
I couldn't agree more with the point Simon made about discoverability and
the workflow optimisation should take second place in this situation,
But isn't discoverability *part* of the workflow? I mean yes, it would be
tricker to find the dialog, and therefore affect workflow in a negative way.
On Wed, 17 May 2006, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
> Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 16:52:08 +0400
> From: Alexandre Prokoudine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: GIMPDev
> Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] Suggestion: Make the 'New
> layer'commanddefaultto 'New lay
>
> On 5/17/06, Martin Nordholts wrote:
> > I th
Yes. You think. And you have no way to back that up.
It feels good knowing that you understand that this is what I think, and
that I never claimed that I know this.
I for myself *do* use the dialog occasionally, mainly for creating new
white layers.
I'm sure a lot of people _occasionally_
Martin Nordholts ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> >To exaggerate your approach: Wouldn't it be the most usable GIMP if we
> >keep counters for the button presses? And if it turns out that a user
> >uses SHIFT-Click more than a simple click, shouldn't we just switch the
> >behaviour of the button on the
What are these "lot of inconsistencies"?
I'm sorry, lot is probably a too strong word. Lookup bugzilla entires
though, and you'll find that not a negligible amount of them can be
considered as inconsistency fixes/enhancements.
_
Your approach involves a lot of guesswork: We have to make an educated
guess, what is the more frequent usage of each of the dozends of
buttons. Each user has to guess what we guessed. And I bet that there
are users out there who don't agree with our guesses. How do we defend
our guesses?
First
On Wed, 2006-05-17 at 15:22 +0200, Martin Nordholts wrote:
> > > >Probably yes, but from what I remember, Shift + Click works in several
> > > >more parts of GIMP's UI. If so, changing it would break consistence.
> > >
> > > I am not sure in what way? Yes, there are other commands that are
> >alte
Martin Nordholts ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> >> If you agree on that, then this improves consistence.
> >
> >I don't agree. First, determining what the "most common use" of a button
> >is, probably is subjective at all. And even if we could determine this
> >in an unambigous way we'd end up basica
Have a look at most recent Inkscape or read
http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/ReleaseNotes. Calligraphic pen
and Pen tool now use same modifiers other tools use. This is both "in
the sense of effective workflow" and "in the structured sense",
because it gives consistent experience throughout
On 5/17/06, Martin Nordholts wrote:
>>I understand your point. Our different conclusions is based upon our
>>different definitions of 'consistency'. I think that the UI should be
>>consistend in the effective workflow sense, while you want it to be
>>consistent in a structured way.
>
>I don't bu
> >Probably yes, but from what I remember, Shift + Click works in several
> >more parts of GIMP's UI. If so, changing it would break consistence.
>
> I am not sure in what way? Yes, there are other commands that are
altered
> by Shift. However, the logical relationship between Shift and non-Shift
With my suggestion:
One click and press 'L'
or
Ctrl + Shift + 'N', 'L' (Which btw makes the right hand free to do
whatever
it wants)
It doesn't free the right hand :)
If you want to be picky, then no, the right hand is not free. I meant that
the mouse cursor can do whatever it wants.
I u
> Ah, it was the other way around before, I see.
>
> From previous discussions however, I concluded that GIMP is not inteded
to
> be an app for newbies, but rather be effective to its faithful users.
I don't think that discoverability is about newbies vs. professionals.
I am assuming you me
On 5/17/06, Martin Nordholts wrote:
With my suggestion:
One click and press 'L'
or
Ctrl + Shift + 'N', 'L' (Which btw makes the right hand free to do whatever
it wants)
It doesn't free the right hand :)
I understand your point. Our different conclusions is based upon our
different definition
Martin Nordholts ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> >Probably yes, but from what I remember, Shift + Click works in several
> >more parts of GIMP's UI. If so, changing it would break consistence.
>
> I am not sure in what way? Yes, there are other commands that are altered
> by Shift. However, the logi
What else can I do while creating a new layer except scratching my
poor head and holding a paper? :)
Using keycommands for instance? A basic example: You want to create a new
layer and after that select tha gradient tool.
With my suggestion:
One click and press 'L'
or
Ctrl + Shift + 'N', 'L' (W
Martin Nordholts ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> >We earlier had it the other way around: Click would create the layers
> >with the defaults, Shift-Click would show the dialog.
> >We then switched it around again, because Shift-Clicking to get the
> >dialog, made the dialog a pretty hidden feature. Mo
On 5/17/06, Martin Nordholts wrote:
I think like this:
For maximum workflow, one should be able to do as many things simultaneously
as possible, wouldn't you agree with that?
What else can I do while creating a new layer except scratching my
poor head and holding a paper? :)
Again, I would lik
One way to make it discoverable is to display a hint in the New Layer
dialog window. (This might be conditional on whether Tip of the Day
is enabled, or might appear only the first time New Layer is used in
each session). Anybody want to take this up?
Actually, there already is a hint. The too
Probably yes, but from what I remember, Shift + Click works in several
more parts of GIMP's UI. If so, changing it would break consistence.
I am not sure in what way? Yes, there are other commands that are altered by
Shift. However, the logical relationship between Shift and non-Shift is (or
a
0> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
0> Simon Budig mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ("Simon") wrote:
Simon> Better have an undiscoverable workflow-optimization than an
Simon> undiscoverable feature.
One way to make it discoverable is to display a hint in the New Layer
dialog window. (This might be condi
I think like this:
For maximum workflow, one should be able to do as many things simultaneously
as possible, wouldn't you agree with that?
Then it follows that having to use two hands is less effective than using
one hand. Exactly _what_ is being done by the other hand is not important,
more
On 5/17/06, Martin Nordholts wrote:
(? my reply seems to have been lost, I will reply again)
Well no, I have no statistics :)
As I said though, we could gather some if needed. Maybe some admid could ask
on the Users list
if they find it appropriate.
Probably yes, but from what I remember, Shi
On 5/17/06, Martin Nordholts wrote:
Having to use two hands instead of one is a dramatic loss of workflow IMHO.
What is the second hand doing then, if not being on keyboard?
I'm really curious, because when I'm using GIMP/Inkscape/Scribus, my
left hand is _always_ on keyboard, mostly in the C
(? my reply seems to have been lost, I will reply again)
Well no, I have no statistics :)
As I said though, we could gather some if needed. Maybe some admid could ask
on the Users list
if they find it appropriate.
From: "Alexandre Prokoudine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: GIMPDev
Subject: Re: [Gi
We earlier had it the other way around: Click would create the layers
with the defaults, Shift-Click would show the dialog.
We then switched it around again, because Shift-Clicking to get the
dialog, made the dialog a pretty hidden feature. Most people would not
even be aware that there is a dialo
Martin Nordholts ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> 1. GIMP wants to provide its users with a good workflow, independent and
> unaffected by other similar applications.
> 2. The majority of 'New layer' commands are equal, i.e. users rarely
> changes the properties (width, height, prefilled color, etc)
On 5/17/06, Martin Nordholts wrote:
Which part of "improve workflow" in my e-mail was hard to understand?
I mean you can't possibly mean that it is more effective to Shift-Click than
to only Click?
Do you have showable results of a usability study that clearly states
that GIMP should always cr
Which part of "improve workflow" in my e-mail was hard to understand?
I mean you can't possibly mean that it is more effective to Shift-Click than
to only Click?
From: "Joao S. O. Bueno Calligaris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: gimp-developer@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] Su
On Wednesday 17 May 2006 08:40 am, Martin Nordholts wrote:
> One other alternative be to provide a key-shortcut which would
> create a new layer with the previous properties,
which part of "hold shift" in my e-mail was that hard to understand?
___
Gimp-
Given these conditions
1. GIMP wants to provide its users with a good workflow, independent and
unaffected by other similar applications.
2. The majority of 'New layer' commands are equal, i.e. users rarely changes
the properties (width, height, prefilled color, etc) of a new layer
I fail to
inestead of that
hold shift
!
it has been dthe default through the 2.0 series, and it was not
firendly to novies.
You just hold shift whenpressing the new layer button.
thank you for your interest, an dyou are welcome to more suggestions.
But this one is not a bug.
On Wednesday 17 May 2006 04
Hi Everyone!
It's me, the Xtns -> Extensions guy if you remember.
I've been using GIMP over the last months to really get to know it, and I
must admit that the workflow improves dramatically once you start to really
get into the UI.
I have however noticed one thing that I think could be impr
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