Re: [hlcoders] Should I switch ASW SDK or stay with Source 2007

[Psy_Commando]

Yeah, there's that...

On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 3:06 PM, Tom Edwards wrote:

> The marine models are rigged horribly (the legs bones are way outside the
> leg mesh!) and their animations look terrible from close up. The model is
> also complicated and not an ideal place to start learning.
>
>
> On 11/08/2011 7:46, Psy_Commando wrote:
>
>> You also can just use the marine model :)
>> And with the asw sdk we have the source for the marine model already.
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 5:23 AM, Tom Edwards 
>> > t_edwards@btinternet.**com >> wrote:
>>
>>Neat, I didn't know about him. Unfortunately that model isn't set
>>up right for 9-way animation...plus, half the point of making the
>>stickman was to provide the source for a simple model. :)
>>
>>
>>On 11/08/2011 5:19, Psy_Commando wrote:
>>
>>I mean the model included with swarm and swarm_base.
>>
>>On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 12:18 AM, Psy_Commando
>>mailto:psycomma...@gmail.com>
>>**>>
>>
>>wrote:
>>
>>   That's pretty neat, but maybe you should use the included
>>citizen,
>>   or the colonist model for the player, instead of the weird
>>   stickman. Its a better showcase of the included
>>functionality :)
>>
>>
>>   On Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 7:22 PM, Tom Edwards
>>> > >
>>>>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>   Here's an update which fixes the ragdoll issues. Still
>>more to
>>   go (see the readme), it's just finding the time...
>>
>>
>> http://steamreview.org/**external/vdc/srcsdk-skeleton-**2.0a2.zip
>>
>>
>>   On 30/07/2011 3:48, Tom Edwards wrote:
>>
>>   Thanks, email me if you find anything wrong!
>>
>>   On 30/07/2011 2:06, Tobias Kammersgaard wrote:
>>
>>   The biggest problem with using the ASW code is
>>really
>>   the lack of Half-Life 2 content. The
>>singleplayer mod
>>   I'm working on would love to have features from the
>>   ASW code base, however lack of HL2 stops us
>>from going
>>   there. Granted we should replace all the HL2
>>content
>>   with out own, but I don't see that happening with a
>>   team of 5 people.
>>
>>   However I will checkout your skeleton Tom :)!
>>
>>   - ScarT
>>
>>
>>   On 30 July 2011 14:57, Tom Edwards
>>> > >
>>>>
>> t_edwards@btinternet.**com >
>>>> wrote:
>>
>>  Don't expect any more significant updates to
>>   2007/9, if for no
>>  other reason than the move from GCF to NCF.
>>Alien
>>   Swarm is from
>>  the main codeline and is much more recent than
>>   2007/9 so is
>>  clearly the best choice for new mods.
>>
>>  Since you probably aren't making a top-down
>>shooter
>>   here is an
>>  alpha for the Alien Swarm Skeleton, which is a
>>   simple first-person
>>  game. Hopefully having something public will
>>   encourage me to spend
>>  more time on its remaining problems. :)
>>
>>
>> http://steamreview.org/**external/vdc/srcsdk-skeleton-**2.0a1.zip
>>
>>
>>  On 30/07/2011 12:24, Psy_Commando wrote:
>>
>>  Sorry, for the previous message, forgot
>>to put
>>   a subject...
>>
>>  Hi,this time I'm having a more complicated
>>   question. Me and my
>>  team were about to switch from Source
>>2007 to
>>   Alien Swarm
>>  Source, to make our mod free, and to have
>>   access to the menu
>>  and loading UI and the Alien Swarm assets.
>>   However, Source
>>  2007 is now free, so that removed one of the
>>   big advantages of
>>  ASW. Beside ASW, has tons of referen

Re: [hlcoders] Should I switch ASW SDK or stay with Source 2007

[Tom Edwards]

The marine models are rigged horribly (the legs bones are way outside 
the leg mesh!) and their animations look terrible from close up. The 
model is also complicated and not an ideal place to start learning.


On 11/08/2011 7:46, Psy_Commando wrote:

You also can just use the marine model :)
And with the asw sdk we have the source for the marine model already.

On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 5:23 AM, Tom Edwards > wrote:


Neat, I didn't know about him. Unfortunately that model isn't set
up right for 9-way animation...plus, half the point of making the
stickman was to provide the source for a simple model. :)


On 11/08/2011 5:19, Psy_Commando wrote:

I mean the model included with swarm and swarm_base.

On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 12:18 AM, Psy_Commando
mailto:psycomma...@gmail.com>
>>
wrote:

   That's pretty neat, but maybe you should use the included
citizen,
   or the colonist model for the player, instead of the weird
   stickman. Its a better showcase of the included
functionality :)


   On Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 7:22 PM, Tom Edwards
mailto:t_edwa...@btinternet.com>
>> wrote:

   Here's an update which fixes the ragdoll issues. Still
more to
   go (see the readme), it's just finding the time...

http://steamreview.org/external/vdc/srcsdk-skeleton-2.0a2.zip


   On 30/07/2011 3:48, Tom Edwards wrote:

   Thanks, email me if you find anything wrong!

   On 30/07/2011 2:06, Tobias Kammersgaard wrote:

   The biggest problem with using the ASW code is
really
   the lack of Half-Life 2 content. The
singleplayer mod
   I'm working on would love to have features from the
   ASW code base, however lack of HL2 stops us
from going
   there. Granted we should replace all the HL2
content
   with out own, but I don't see that happening with a
   team of 5 people.

   However I will checkout your skeleton Tom :)!

   - ScarT


   On 30 July 2011 14:57, Tom Edwards
mailto:t_edwa...@btinternet.com>
>

Re: [hlcoders] Should I switch ASW SDK or stay with Source 2007

[Psy_Commando]

You also can just use the marine model :)
And with the asw sdk we have the source for the marine model already.

On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 5:23 AM, Tom Edwards wrote:

> Neat, I didn't know about him. Unfortunately that model isn't set up right
> for 9-way animation...plus, half the point of making the stickman was to
> provide the source for a simple model. :)
>
>
> On 11/08/2011 5:19, Psy_Commando wrote:
>
>> I mean the model included with swarm and swarm_base.
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 12:18 AM, Psy_Commando > psycomma...@gmail.com>**> wrote:
>>
>>That's pretty neat, but maybe you should use the included citizen,
>>or the colonist model for the player, instead of the weird
>>stickman. Its a better showcase of the included functionality :)
>>
>>
>>On Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 7:22 PM, Tom Edwards
>>> >
>> wrote:
>>
>>Here's an update which fixes the ragdoll issues. Still more to
>>go (see the readme), it's just finding the time...
>>
>>
>> http://steamreview.org/**external/vdc/srcsdk-skeleton-**2.0a2.zip
>>
>>
>>On 30/07/2011 3:48, Tom Edwards wrote:
>>
>>Thanks, email me if you find anything wrong!
>>
>>On 30/07/2011 2:06, Tobias Kammersgaard wrote:
>>
>>The biggest problem with using the ASW code is really
>>the lack of Half-Life 2 content. The singleplayer mod
>>I'm working on would love to have features from the
>>ASW code base, however lack of HL2 stops us from going
>>there. Granted we should replace all the HL2 content
>>with out own, but I don't see that happening with a
>>team of 5 people.
>>
>>However I will checkout your skeleton Tom :)!
>>
>>- ScarT
>>
>>
>>On 30 July 2011 14:57, Tom Edwards
>>>> >
>>>
>> >>
>> wrote:
>>
>>   Don't expect any more significant updates to
>>2007/9, if for no
>>   other reason than the move from GCF to NCF. Alien
>>Swarm is from
>>   the main codeline and is much more recent than
>>2007/9 so is
>>   clearly the best choice for new mods.
>>
>>   Since you probably aren't making a top-down shooter
>>here is an
>>   alpha for the Alien Swarm Skeleton, which is a
>>simple first-person
>>   game. Hopefully having something public will
>>encourage me to spend
>>   more time on its remaining problems. :)
>>
>>http://steamreview.org/**external/vdc/srcsdk-skeleton-**
>> 2.0a1.zip 
>>
>>
>>   On 30/07/2011 12:24, Psy_Commando wrote:
>>
>>   Sorry, for the previous message, forgot to put
>>a subject...
>>
>>   Hi,this time I'm having a more complicated
>>question. Me and my
>>   team were about to switch from Source 2007 to
>>Alien Swarm
>>   Source, to make our mod free, and to have
>>access to the menu
>>   and loading UI and the Alien Swarm assets.
>>However, Source
>>   2007 is now free, so that removed one of the
>>big advantages of
>>   ASW. Beside ASW, has tons of references
>>directly to member
>>   variables of other classes, which makes it very
>>hard to make
>>   significant changes.
>>
>>   What I'm wondering is, is this a good move in
>>the long term ?
>>   I mean ASW, and the ASW SDK are pretty much
>>left to die by its
>>   devs, and there are about two active mods...
>>Unlike with ASW I
>>   can expect that there will be a Source 2009
>>update at some
>>   point with the Source SDK. Any suggestions or
>>comments ?
>>
>>
>>   __**_
>>   To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or
>>view the list
>>   archives, please visit:
>>
>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/**mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>>
>>
>>   __**_
>>  

Re: [hlcoders] Should I switch ASW SDK or stay with Source 2007

[Tom Edwards]

Neat, I didn't know about him. Unfortunately that model isn't set up 
right for 9-way animation...plus, half the point of making the stickman 
was to provide the source for a simple model. :)


On 11/08/2011 5:19, Psy_Commando wrote:

I mean the model included with swarm and swarm_base.

On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 12:18 AM, Psy_Commando > wrote:


That's pretty neat, but maybe you should use the included citizen,
or the colonist model for the player, instead of the weird
stickman. Its a better showcase of the included functionality :)


On Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 7:22 PM, Tom Edwards
mailto:t_edwa...@btinternet.com>> wrote:

Here's an update which fixes the ragdoll issues. Still more to
go (see the readme), it's just finding the time...

http://steamreview.org/external/vdc/srcsdk-skeleton-2.0a2.zip


On 30/07/2011 3:48, Tom Edwards wrote:

Thanks, email me if you find anything wrong!

On 30/07/2011 2:06, Tobias Kammersgaard wrote:

The biggest problem with using the ASW code is really
the lack of Half-Life 2 content. The singleplayer mod
I'm working on would love to have features from the
ASW code base, however lack of HL2 stops us from going
there. Granted we should replace all the HL2 content
with out own, but I don't see that happening with a
team of 5 people.

However I will checkout your skeleton Tom :)!

- ScarT


On 30 July 2011 14:57, Tom Edwards
mailto:t_edwa...@btinternet.com>
>> wrote:

   Don't expect any more significant updates to
2007/9, if for no
   other reason than the move from GCF to NCF. Alien
Swarm is from
   the main codeline and is much more recent than
2007/9 so is
   clearly the best choice for new mods.

   Since you probably aren't making a top-down shooter
here is an
   alpha for the Alien Swarm Skeleton, which is a
simple first-person
   game. Hopefully having something public will
encourage me to spend
   more time on its remaining problems. :)

http://steamreview.org/external/vdc/srcsdk-skeleton-2.0a1.zip


   On 30/07/2011 12:24, Psy_Commando wrote:

   Sorry, for the previous message, forgot to put
a subject...

   Hi,this time I'm having a more complicated
question. Me and my
   team were about to switch from Source 2007 to
Alien Swarm
   Source, to make our mod free, and to have
access to the menu
   and loading UI and the Alien Swarm assets.
However, Source
   2007 is now free, so that removed one of the
big advantages of
   ASW. Beside ASW, has tons of references
directly to member
   variables of other classes, which makes it very
hard to make
   significant changes.

   What I'm wondering is, is this a good move in
the long term ?
   I mean ASW, and the ASW SDK are pretty much
left to die by its
   devs, and there are about two active mods...
Unlike with ASW I
   can expect that there will be a Source 2009
update at some
   point with the Source SDK. Any suggestions or
comments ?


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Re: [hlcoders] Should I switch ASW SDK or stay with Source 2007

[Psy_Commando]

I mean the model included with swarm and swarm_base.

On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 12:18 AM, Psy_Commando wrote:

> That's pretty neat, but maybe you should use the included citizen, or the
> colonist model for the player, instead of the weird stickman. Its a better
> showcase of the included functionality :)
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 7:22 PM, Tom Edwards wrote:
>
>> Here's an update which fixes the ragdoll issues. Still more to go (see the
>> readme), it's just finding the time...
>>
>> http://steamreview.org/**external/vdc/srcsdk-skeleton-**2.0a2.zip
>>
>>
>> On 30/07/2011 3:48, Tom Edwards wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks, email me if you find anything wrong!
>>>
>>> On 30/07/2011 2:06, Tobias Kammersgaard wrote:
>>>
 The biggest problem with using the ASW code is really the lack of
 Half-Life 2 content. The singleplayer mod I'm working on would love to have
 features from the ASW code base, however lack of HL2 stops us from going
 there. Granted we should replace all the HL2 content with out own, but I
 don't see that happening with a team of 5 people.

 However I will checkout your skeleton Tom :)!

 - ScarT


 On 30 July 2011 14:57, Tom Edwards >>> t_edwards@btinternet.**com >> wrote:

Don't expect any more significant updates to 2007/9, if for no
other reason than the move from GCF to NCF. Alien Swarm is from
the main codeline and is much more recent than 2007/9 so is
clearly the best choice for new mods.

Since you probably aren't making a top-down shooter here is an
alpha for the Alien Swarm Skeleton, which is a simple first-person
game. Hopefully having something public will encourage me to spend
more time on its remaining problems. :)


 http://steamreview.org/**external/vdc/srcsdk-skeleton-**2.0a1.zip


On 30/07/2011 12:24, Psy_Commando wrote:

Sorry, for the previous message, forgot to put a subject...

Hi,this time I'm having a more complicated question. Me and my
team were about to switch from Source 2007 to Alien Swarm
Source, to make our mod free, and to have access to the menu
and loading UI and the Alien Swarm assets. However, Source
2007 is now free, so that removed one of the big advantages of
ASW. Beside ASW, has tons of references directly to member
variables of other classes, which makes it very hard to make
significant changes.

What I'm wondering is, is this a good move in the long term ?
I mean ASW, and the ASW SDK are pretty much left to die by its
devs, and there are about two active mods... Unlike with ASW I
can expect that there will be a Source 2009 update at some
point with the Source SDK. Any suggestions or comments ?


__**_
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archives, please visit:

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Re: [hlcoders] Should I switch ASW SDK or stay with Source 2007

[Psy_Commando]

That's pretty neat, but maybe you should use the included citizen, or the
colonist model for the player, instead of the weird stickman. Its a better
showcase of the included functionality :)

On Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 7:22 PM, Tom Edwards wrote:

> Here's an update which fixes the ragdoll issues. Still more to go (see the
> readme), it's just finding the time...
>
> http://steamreview.org/**external/vdc/srcsdk-skeleton-**2.0a2.zip
>
>
> On 30/07/2011 3:48, Tom Edwards wrote:
>
>> Thanks, email me if you find anything wrong!
>>
>> On 30/07/2011 2:06, Tobias Kammersgaard wrote:
>>
>>> The biggest problem with using the ASW code is really the lack of
>>> Half-Life 2 content. The singleplayer mod I'm working on would love to have
>>> features from the ASW code base, however lack of HL2 stops us from going
>>> there. Granted we should replace all the HL2 content with out own, but I
>>> don't see that happening with a team of 5 people.
>>>
>>> However I will checkout your skeleton Tom :)!
>>>
>>> - ScarT
>>>
>>>
>>> On 30 July 2011 14:57, Tom Edwards >> t_edwards@btinternet.**com >> wrote:
>>>
>>>Don't expect any more significant updates to 2007/9, if for no
>>>other reason than the move from GCF to NCF. Alien Swarm is from
>>>the main codeline and is much more recent than 2007/9 so is
>>>clearly the best choice for new mods.
>>>
>>>Since you probably aren't making a top-down shooter here is an
>>>alpha for the Alien Swarm Skeleton, which is a simple first-person
>>>game. Hopefully having something public will encourage me to spend
>>>more time on its remaining problems. :)
>>>
>>>
>>> http://steamreview.org/**external/vdc/srcsdk-skeleton-**2.0a1.zip
>>>
>>>
>>>On 30/07/2011 12:24, Psy_Commando wrote:
>>>
>>>Sorry, for the previous message, forgot to put a subject...
>>>
>>>Hi,this time I'm having a more complicated question. Me and my
>>>team were about to switch from Source 2007 to Alien Swarm
>>>Source, to make our mod free, and to have access to the menu
>>>and loading UI and the Alien Swarm assets. However, Source
>>>2007 is now free, so that removed one of the big advantages of
>>>ASW. Beside ASW, has tons of references directly to member
>>>variables of other classes, which makes it very hard to make
>>>significant changes.
>>>
>>>What I'm wondering is, is this a good move in the long term ?
>>>I mean ASW, and the ASW SDK are pretty much left to die by its
>>>devs, and there are about two active mods... Unlike with ASW I
>>>can expect that there will be a Source 2009 update at some
>>>point with the Source SDK. Any suggestions or comments ?
>>>
>>>
>>>__**_
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>>>archives, please visit:
>>>
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>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
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Re: [hlcoders] Should I switch ASW SDK or stay with Source 2007

[Tom Edwards]

Here's an update which fixes the ragdoll issues. Still more to go (see 
the readme), it's just finding the time...


http://steamreview.org/external/vdc/srcsdk-skeleton-2.0a2.zip

On 30/07/2011 3:48, Tom Edwards wrote:

Thanks, email me if you find anything wrong!

On 30/07/2011 2:06, Tobias Kammersgaard wrote:
The biggest problem with using the ASW code is really the lack of 
Half-Life 2 content. The singleplayer mod I'm working on would love 
to have features from the ASW code base, however lack of HL2 stops us 
from going there. Granted we should replace all the HL2 content with 
out own, but I don't see that happening with a team of 5 people.


However I will checkout your skeleton Tom :)!

- ScarT


On 30 July 2011 14:57, Tom Edwards > wrote:


Don't expect any more significant updates to 2007/9, if for no
other reason than the move from GCF to NCF. Alien Swarm is from
the main codeline and is much more recent than 2007/9 so is
clearly the best choice for new mods.

Since you probably aren't making a top-down shooter here is an
alpha for the Alien Swarm Skeleton, which is a simple first-person
game. Hopefully having something public will encourage me to spend
more time on its remaining problems. :)

http://steamreview.org/external/vdc/srcsdk-skeleton-2.0a1.zip


On 30/07/2011 12:24, Psy_Commando wrote:

Sorry, for the previous message, forgot to put a subject...

Hi,this time I'm having a more complicated question. Me and my
team were about to switch from Source 2007 to Alien Swarm
Source, to make our mod free, and to have access to the menu
and loading UI and the Alien Swarm assets. However, Source
2007 is now free, so that removed one of the big advantages of
ASW. Beside ASW, has tons of references directly to member
variables of other classes, which makes it very hard to make
significant changes.

What I'm wondering is, is this a good move in the long term ?
I mean ASW, and the ASW SDK are pretty much left to die by its
devs, and there are about two active mods... Unlike with ASW I
can expect that there will be a Source 2009 update at some
point with the Source SDK. Any suggestions or comments ?


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Re: [hlcoders] Should I switch ASW SDK or stay with Source 2007

[Garry Newman]

That's a good point

garry


On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 12:50 AM, Psy_Commando  wrote:

> yeah, but if its a single player mod.
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 3:30 AM, Garry Newman wrote:
>
>> Not really because the server can make it so that the clients run only the
>> scripts it has authorised..
>>
>> garry
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 9:11 PM, Psy_Commando wrote:
>>
>>> Yeah, and if the end-user has tons of poorly coded add-ons, it will end
>>> up affecting the quality of the mod, no ?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 2:28 PM, Stephen Swires >> > wrote:
>>>
 Gmod is useful for prototyping an idea (as long as that idea doesn't
 involve AI), it does a very good job at it. But it just can't compete with
 the low level access that the Source SDK grants you.


 On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 7:19 PM, Garry Newman wrote:

> Just putting it out there as another option
>
> garry
>
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 7:11 PM, Marek Sieradzki <
> marek.sierad...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 6:22 PM, Garry Newman 
>> wrote:
>> > The solution is simple - code your mod in GMod :D
>> Why would anyone want to keep Source restrictions AND gmod
>> restrictions?
>>
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>


 --
 - Stephen Swires

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Re: [hlcoders] Should I switch ASW SDK or stay with Source 2007

[Psy_Commando]

yeah, but if its a single player mod.

On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 3:30 AM, Garry Newman  wrote:

> Not really because the server can make it so that the clients run only the
> scripts it has authorised..
>
> garry
>
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 9:11 PM, Psy_Commando wrote:
>
>> Yeah, and if the end-user has tons of poorly coded add-ons, it will end up
>> affecting the quality of the mod, no ?
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 2:28 PM, Stephen Swires 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Gmod is useful for prototyping an idea (as long as that idea doesn't
>>> involve AI), it does a very good job at it. But it just can't compete with
>>> the low level access that the Source SDK grants you.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 7:19 PM, Garry Newman wrote:
>>>
 Just putting it out there as another option

 garry



 On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 7:11 PM, Marek Sieradzki <
 marek.sierad...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 6:22 PM, Garry Newman 
> wrote:
> > The solution is simple - code your mod in GMod :D
> Why would anyone want to keep Source restrictions AND gmod
> restrictions?
>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>
>

 ___
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 please visit:
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> - Stephen Swires
>>>
>>> ___
>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>>> please visit:
>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ___
>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>> please visit:
>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>>
>>
>>
>
> ___
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> please visit:
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>
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Re: [hlcoders] Should I switch ASW SDK or stay with Source 2007

[Garry Newman]

Not really because the server can make it so that the clients run only the
scripts it has authorised..

garry


On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 9:11 PM, Psy_Commando  wrote:

> Yeah, and if the end-user has tons of poorly coded add-ons, it will end up
> affecting the quality of the mod, no ?
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 2:28 PM, Stephen Swires 
> wrote:
>
>> Gmod is useful for prototyping an idea (as long as that idea doesn't
>> involve AI), it does a very good job at it. But it just can't compete with
>> the low level access that the Source SDK grants you.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 7:19 PM, Garry Newman wrote:
>>
>>> Just putting it out there as another option
>>>
>>> garry
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 7:11 PM, Marek Sieradzki <
>>> marek.sierad...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 6:22 PM, Garry Newman 
 wrote:
 > The solution is simple - code your mod in GMod :D
 Why would anyone want to keep Source restrictions AND gmod restrictions?

 ___
 To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
 please visit:
 http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders


>>>
>>> ___
>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>>> please visit:
>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> - Stephen Swires
>>
>> ___
>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>> please visit:
>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>>
>>
>>
>
> ___
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> please visit:
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Re: [hlcoders] Should I switch ASW SDK or stay with Source 2007

[Igoreso]

Meh. Just another conversation about Source SDK *not* being updated.
I think I'll write typical "come on, Valve!". Yeah, perfect.

Come on, Valve!


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Re: [hlcoders] Should I switch ASW SDK or stay with Source 2007

[Psy_Commando]

Yeah, and if the end-user has tons of poorly coded add-ons, it will end up
affecting the quality of the mod, no ?

On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 2:28 PM, Stephen Swires wrote:

> Gmod is useful for prototyping an idea (as long as that idea doesn't
> involve AI), it does a very good job at it. But it just can't compete with
> the low level access that the Source SDK grants you.
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 7:19 PM, Garry Newman wrote:
>
>> Just putting it out there as another option
>>
>> garry
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 7:11 PM, Marek Sieradzki <
>> marek.sierad...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 6:22 PM, Garry Newman 
>>> wrote:
>>> > The solution is simple - code your mod in GMod :D
>>> Why would anyone want to keep Source restrictions AND gmod restrictions?
>>>
>>> ___
>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>>> please visit:
>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ___
>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>> please visit:
>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> - Stephen Swires
>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>
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Re: [hlcoders] Should I switch ASW SDK or stay with Source 2007

[Stephen Swires]

Gmod is useful for prototyping an idea (as long as that idea doesn't involve
AI), it does a very good job at it. But it just can't compete with the low
level access that the Source SDK grants you.

On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 7:19 PM, Garry Newman  wrote:

> Just putting it out there as another option
>
> garry
>
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 7:11 PM, Marek Sieradzki  > wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 6:22 PM, Garry Newman 
>> wrote:
>> > The solution is simple - code your mod in GMod :D
>> Why would anyone want to keep Source restrictions AND gmod restrictions?
>>
>> ___
>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>> please visit:
>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>>
>>
>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>
>
>


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Re: [hlcoders] Should I switch ASW SDK or stay with Source 2007

[Garry Newman]

Just putting it out there as another option

garry


On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 7:11 PM, Marek Sieradzki
wrote:

> On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 6:22 PM, Garry Newman 
> wrote:
> > The solution is simple - code your mod in GMod :D
> Why would anyone want to keep Source restrictions AND gmod restrictions?
>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>
>
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Re: [hlcoders] Should I switch ASW SDK or stay with Source 2007

[Marek Sieradzki]

On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 6:22 PM, Garry Newman  wrote:
> The solution is simple - code your mod in GMod :D
Why would anyone want to keep Source restrictions AND gmod restrictions?

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Re: [hlcoders] Should I switch ASW SDK or stay with Source 2007

[James Pizzurro]

Garry's Mod is certainly an excellent environment to test ideas in, though
I've never quite completed anything for it. You raise an interesting
proposition though. Support Python and we'll see? (I joke) :p

On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 12:36 PM, Stephen Swires wrote:

> Do you have navigation mesh bindings yet?
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 5:35 PM, Garry Newman wrote:
>
>> That's true - it does have its disadvantages.. but it has its advantages.
>> It's easier. The engine will get updated around your Lua code. There's an
>> existing playerbase - playing your mod is as easy as joining a different
>> server. If your mod is half decent I'd ship it with GMod.. allowing people
>> to play with your content in GMod's sandbox, then join a different server
>> and play the game itself.
>>
>> garry
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 5:28 PM, Saul Rennison wrote:
>>
>>> Slightly restricts your fanbase to Gmod owners, then, and you have enough
>>> money, thanks.
>>>
>>>
>>> Kind regards,
>>> *Saul Rennison*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 1 August 2011 17:22, Garry Newman  wrote:
>>>
>>>> The solution is simple - code your mod in GMod :D
>>>>
>>>> garry
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 5:05 PM, Stephen Swires <
>>>> stephen.swi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> It's not actually the codebase that matters, it's the benefits of the
>>>>> later Source versions including Mac support, better multi-threaded
>>>>> rendering, etc. But I suppose for most of you, if you were to start a new
>>>>> project now, Source wouldn't even be considered. You have UDK, Unity, and
>>>>> later this month CryEngine 3 to play with.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 3:54 PM, James Pizzurro <
>>>>> ja...@agentredproductions.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In my opinion, 2007 is an excellent codebase. I realize Valve has
>>>>>> added/changed/removed some things since its initial release to the 
>>>>>> public,
>>>>>> but generally speaking, things work quite well with very few "required"
>>>>>> changes. What I do think stands to be improved is Hammer, but it sounds 
>>>>>> like
>>>>>> they're working on that, so to be honest, there's not much to complain
>>>>>> about. Just my two cents...and this conversation should probably stop 
>>>>>> here
>>>>>> or be taken elsewhere seeing as it's a bit off-topic, no?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 1:30 AM, Nathan Voge  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  2007!!! You guys/gals realize its more than half way through 2011 -
>>>>>>> right? We should have a freakin updated sdk by now Valve!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Releasing Alien Swarm for free was a nice start but it was not
>>>>>>> developed to be a base of anything but Alien Swarm. It was released 
>>>>>>> over a
>>>>>>> year ago - Last update is just days away from 1 year - and its basically
>>>>>>> dead. We need tools that work and eliminate the bs of creating, 
>>>>>>> importing,
>>>>>>> and modifying content. We need code where everything works (without 
>>>>>>> having
>>>>>>> to use community patches) and provides us a great base but doesn't 
>>>>>>> overwhelm
>>>>>>> us with its size. We need better documentation as well. You can't 
>>>>>>> expect the
>>>>>>> community to write all the help files.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've seen the words "masochist" and "Source" used near each other too
>>>>>>> many times to not say this stuff. Ever notice how dead the mailing list 
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> in recent years?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As it stands I can probably count the number of for profit, released,
>>>>>>> Source Engine games not produced by Valve on one hand. Build a better 
>>>>>>> Source
>>>>&g

Re: [hlcoders] Should I switch ASW SDK or stay with Source 2007

[Stephen Swires]

Do you have navigation mesh bindings yet?

On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 5:35 PM, Garry Newman  wrote:

> That's true - it does have its disadvantages.. but it has its advantages.
> It's easier. The engine will get updated around your Lua code. There's an
> existing playerbase - playing your mod is as easy as joining a different
> server. If your mod is half decent I'd ship it with GMod.. allowing people
> to play with your content in GMod's sandbox, then join a different server
> and play the game itself.
>
> garry
>
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 5:28 PM, Saul Rennison wrote:
>
>> Slightly restricts your fanbase to Gmod owners, then, and you have enough
>> money, thanks.
>>
>>
>> Kind regards,
>> *Saul Rennison*
>>
>>
>>
>> On 1 August 2011 17:22, Garry Newman  wrote:
>>
>>> The solution is simple - code your mod in GMod :D
>>>
>>> garry
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 5:05 PM, Stephen Swires >> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> It's not actually the codebase that matters, it's the benefits of the
>>>> later Source versions including Mac support, better multi-threaded
>>>> rendering, etc. But I suppose for most of you, if you were to start a new
>>>> project now, Source wouldn't even be considered. You have UDK, Unity, and
>>>> later this month CryEngine 3 to play with.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 3:54 PM, James Pizzurro <
>>>> ja...@agentredproductions.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In my opinion, 2007 is an excellent codebase. I realize Valve has
>>>>> added/changed/removed some things since its initial release to the public,
>>>>> but generally speaking, things work quite well with very few "required"
>>>>> changes. What I do think stands to be improved is Hammer, but it sounds 
>>>>> like
>>>>> they're working on that, so to be honest, there's not much to complain
>>>>> about. Just my two cents...and this conversation should probably stop here
>>>>> or be taken elsewhere seeing as it's a bit off-topic, no?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 1:30 AM, Nathan Voge  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>  2007!!! You guys/gals realize its more than half way through 2011 -
>>>>>> right? We should have a freakin updated sdk by now Valve!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Releasing Alien Swarm for free was a nice start but it was not
>>>>>> developed to be a base of anything but Alien Swarm. It was released over 
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> year ago - Last update is just days away from 1 year - and its basically
>>>>>> dead. We need tools that work and eliminate the bs of creating, 
>>>>>> importing,
>>>>>> and modifying content. We need code where everything works (without 
>>>>>> having
>>>>>> to use community patches) and provides us a great base but doesn't 
>>>>>> overwhelm
>>>>>> us with its size. We need better documentation as well. You can't expect 
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> community to write all the help files.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've seen the words "masochist" and "Source" used near each other too
>>>>>> many times to not say this stuff. Ever notice how dead the mailing list 
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> in recent years?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As it stands I can probably count the number of for profit, released,
>>>>>> Source Engine games not produced by Valve on one hand. Build a better 
>>>>>> Source
>>>>>> SDK and you will get more interest in Source licensing. Hell, I'd 
>>>>>> probably
>>>>>> even call it something else so people aren't scared off by its previous 
>>>>>> rep.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 01:44:25 +0100
>>>>>> From: stephen.swi...@gmail.com
>>>>>> To: hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Should I switch ASW SDK or stay with Source
>>>>>> 2007
>>>>>>
>>

Re: [hlcoders] Should I switch ASW SDK or stay with Source 2007

[Garry Newman]

That's true - it does have its disadvantages.. but it has its advantages.
It's easier. The engine will get updated around your Lua code. There's an
existing playerbase - playing your mod is as easy as joining a different
server. If your mod is half decent I'd ship it with GMod.. allowing people
to play with your content in GMod's sandbox, then join a different server
and play the game itself.

garry


On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 5:28 PM, Saul Rennison wrote:

> Slightly restricts your fanbase to Gmod owners, then, and you have enough
> money, thanks.
>
>
> Kind regards,
> *Saul Rennison*
>
>
>
> On 1 August 2011 17:22, Garry Newman  wrote:
>
>> The solution is simple - code your mod in GMod :D
>>
>> garry
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 5:05 PM, Stephen Swires 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> It's not actually the codebase that matters, it's the benefits of the
>>> later Source versions including Mac support, better multi-threaded
>>> rendering, etc. But I suppose for most of you, if you were to start a new
>>> project now, Source wouldn't even be considered. You have UDK, Unity, and
>>> later this month CryEngine 3 to play with.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 3:54 PM, James Pizzurro <
>>> ja...@agentredproductions.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In my opinion, 2007 is an excellent codebase. I realize Valve has
>>>> added/changed/removed some things since its initial release to the public,
>>>> but generally speaking, things work quite well with very few "required"
>>>> changes. What I do think stands to be improved is Hammer, but it sounds 
>>>> like
>>>> they're working on that, so to be honest, there's not much to complain
>>>> about. Just my two cents...and this conversation should probably stop here
>>>> or be taken elsewhere seeing as it's a bit off-topic, no?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 1:30 AM, Nathan Voge  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>  2007!!! You guys/gals realize its more than half way through 2011 -
>>>>> right? We should have a freakin updated sdk by now Valve!
>>>>>
>>>>> Releasing Alien Swarm for free was a nice start but it was not
>>>>> developed to be a base of anything but Alien Swarm. It was released over a
>>>>> year ago - Last update is just days away from 1 year - and its basically
>>>>> dead. We need tools that work and eliminate the bs of creating, importing,
>>>>> and modifying content. We need code where everything works (without having
>>>>> to use community patches) and provides us a great base but doesn't 
>>>>> overwhelm
>>>>> us with its size. We need better documentation as well. You can't expect 
>>>>> the
>>>>> community to write all the help files.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've seen the words "masochist" and "Source" used near each other too
>>>>> many times to not say this stuff. Ever notice how dead the mailing list is
>>>>> in recent years?
>>>>>
>>>>> As it stands I can probably count the number of for profit, released,
>>>>> Source Engine games not produced by Valve on one hand. Build a better 
>>>>> Source
>>>>> SDK and you will get more interest in Source licensing. Hell, I'd probably
>>>>> even call it something else so people aren't scared off by its previous 
>>>>> rep.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 01:44:25 +0100
>>>>> From: stephen.swi...@gmail.com
>>>>> To: hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com
>>>>> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Should I switch ASW SDK or stay with Source
>>>>> 2007
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> In addition to that Marek, I can see people taking advantage of Mac OS
>>>>> X and replay support
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 12:34 AM, Marek Sieradzki <
>>>>> marek.sierad...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> No significant changes at all, just that it has multithreaded leaf
>>>>> system, shadows and rendering which change 20-50 FPS into 150.
>>>>>
>>>>> 

Re: [hlcoders] Should I switch ASW SDK or stay with Source 2007

[Saul Rennison]

Slightly restricts your fanbase to Gmod owners, then, and you have enough
money, thanks.


Kind regards,
*Saul Rennison*


On 1 August 2011 17:22, Garry Newman  wrote:

> The solution is simple - code your mod in GMod :D
>
> garry
>
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 5:05 PM, Stephen Swires 
> wrote:
>
>> It's not actually the codebase that matters, it's the benefits of the
>> later Source versions including Mac support, better multi-threaded
>> rendering, etc. But I suppose for most of you, if you were to start a new
>> project now, Source wouldn't even be considered. You have UDK, Unity, and
>> later this month CryEngine 3 to play with.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 3:54 PM, James Pizzurro <
>> ja...@agentredproductions.com> wrote:
>>
>>> In my opinion, 2007 is an excellent codebase. I realize Valve has
>>> added/changed/removed some things since its initial release to the public,
>>> but generally speaking, things work quite well with very few "required"
>>> changes. What I do think stands to be improved is Hammer, but it sounds like
>>> they're working on that, so to be honest, there's not much to complain
>>> about. Just my two cents...and this conversation should probably stop here
>>> or be taken elsewhere seeing as it's a bit off-topic, no?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 1:30 AM, Nathan Voge  wrote:
>>>
>>>>  2007!!! You guys/gals realize its more than half way through 2011 -
>>>> right? We should have a freakin updated sdk by now Valve!
>>>>
>>>> Releasing Alien Swarm for free was a nice start but it was not developed
>>>> to be a base of anything but Alien Swarm. It was released over a year ago -
>>>> Last update is just days away from 1 year - and its basically dead. We need
>>>> tools that work and eliminate the bs of creating, importing, and modifying
>>>> content. We need code where everything works (without having to use
>>>> community patches) and provides us a great base but doesn't overwhelm us
>>>> with its size. We need better documentation as well. You can't expect the
>>>> community to write all the help files.
>>>>
>>>> I've seen the words "masochist" and "Source" used near each other too
>>>> many times to not say this stuff. Ever notice how dead the mailing list is
>>>> in recent years?
>>>>
>>>> As it stands I can probably count the number of for profit, released,
>>>> Source Engine games not produced by Valve on one hand. Build a better 
>>>> Source
>>>> SDK and you will get more interest in Source licensing. Hell, I'd probably
>>>> even call it something else so people aren't scared off by its previous 
>>>> rep.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 01:44:25 +0100
>>>> From: stephen.swi...@gmail.com
>>>> To: hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com
>>>> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Should I switch ASW SDK or stay with Source 2007
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In addition to that Marek, I can see people taking advantage of Mac OS X
>>>> and replay support
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 12:34 AM, Marek Sieradzki <
>>>> marek.sierad...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> No significant changes at all, just that it has multithreaded leaf
>>>> system, shadows and rendering which change 20-50 FPS into 150.
>>>>
>>>> ___
>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>>>> please visit:
>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> - Stephen Swires
>>>>
>>>> ___ To unsubscribe, edit
>>>> your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit:
>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>>>>
>>>> ___
>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>>>> please visit:
>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> *James Pizzurro*
>>> Co-founder, Programmer
>>> Agent Red Productions
>>> 646-341- direct
>>> ja...@agentredproductions.com | www.agentredproductions.com
>>>
>>> ___
>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>>> please visit:
>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> - Stephen Swires
>>
>> ___
>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>> please visit:
>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>>
>>
>>
>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
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>
>
>
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Re: [hlcoders] Should I switch ASW SDK or stay with Source 2007

[Garry Newman]

The solution is simple - code your mod in GMod :D

garry


On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 5:05 PM, Stephen Swires wrote:

> It's not actually the codebase that matters, it's the benefits of the later
> Source versions including Mac support, better multi-threaded rendering, etc.
> But I suppose for most of you, if you were to start a new project now,
> Source wouldn't even be considered. You have UDK, Unity, and later this
> month CryEngine 3 to play with.
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 3:54 PM, James Pizzurro <
> ja...@agentredproductions.com> wrote:
>
>> In my opinion, 2007 is an excellent codebase. I realize Valve has
>> added/changed/removed some things since its initial release to the public,
>> but generally speaking, things work quite well with very few "required"
>> changes. What I do think stands to be improved is Hammer, but it sounds like
>> they're working on that, so to be honest, there's not much to complain
>> about. Just my two cents...and this conversation should probably stop here
>> or be taken elsewhere seeing as it's a bit off-topic, no?
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 1:30 AM, Nathan Voge  wrote:
>>
>>>  2007!!! You guys/gals realize its more than half way through 2011 -
>>> right? We should have a freakin updated sdk by now Valve!
>>>
>>> Releasing Alien Swarm for free was a nice start but it was not developed
>>> to be a base of anything but Alien Swarm. It was released over a year ago -
>>> Last update is just days away from 1 year - and its basically dead. We need
>>> tools that work and eliminate the bs of creating, importing, and modifying
>>> content. We need code where everything works (without having to use
>>> community patches) and provides us a great base but doesn't overwhelm us
>>> with its size. We need better documentation as well. You can't expect the
>>> community to write all the help files.
>>>
>>> I've seen the words "masochist" and "Source" used near each other too
>>> many times to not say this stuff. Ever notice how dead the mailing list is
>>> in recent years?
>>>
>>> As it stands I can probably count the number of for profit, released,
>>> Source Engine games not produced by Valve on one hand. Build a better Source
>>> SDK and you will get more interest in Source licensing. Hell, I'd probably
>>> even call it something else so people aren't scared off by its previous rep.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 01:44:25 +0100
>>> From: stephen.swi...@gmail.com
>>> To: hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com
>>> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Should I switch ASW SDK or stay with Source 2007
>>>
>>>
>>> In addition to that Marek, I can see people taking advantage of Mac OS X
>>> and replay support
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 12:34 AM, Marek Sieradzki <
>>> marek.sierad...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> No significant changes at all, just that it has multithreaded leaf
>>> system, shadows and rendering which change 20-50 FPS into 150.
>>>
>>> ___
>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>>> please visit:
>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> - Stephen Swires
>>>
>>> ___ To unsubscribe, edit your
>>> list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit:
>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>>>
>>> ___
>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>>> please visit:
>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> *James Pizzurro*
>> Co-founder, Programmer
>> Agent Red Productions
>> 646-341- direct
>> ja...@agentredproductions.com | www.agentredproductions.com
>>
>> ___
>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>> please visit:
>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> - Stephen Swires
>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>
>
>
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Re: [hlcoders] Should I switch ASW SDK or stay with Source 2007

[Saul Rennison]

I still prefer Source's netcode than any other engine's (I haven't played
any UE3 MP FPS games, so I can't vouch for that). Source is definitely
better than Frostbite, and most likely any others.


Kind regards,
*Saul Rennison*


On 1 August 2011 17:05, Stephen Swires  wrote:

> It's not actually the codebase that matters, it's the benefits of the later
> Source versions including Mac support, better multi-threaded rendering, etc.
> But I suppose for most of you, if you were to start a new project now,
> Source wouldn't even be considered. You have UDK, Unity, and later this
> month CryEngine 3 to play with.
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 3:54 PM, James Pizzurro <
> ja...@agentredproductions.com> wrote:
>
>> In my opinion, 2007 is an excellent codebase. I realize Valve has
>> added/changed/removed some things since its initial release to the public,
>> but generally speaking, things work quite well with very few "required"
>> changes. What I do think stands to be improved is Hammer, but it sounds like
>> they're working on that, so to be honest, there's not much to complain
>> about. Just my two cents...and this conversation should probably stop here
>> or be taken elsewhere seeing as it's a bit off-topic, no?
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 1:30 AM, Nathan Voge  wrote:
>>
>>>  2007!!! You guys/gals realize its more than half way through 2011 -
>>> right? We should have a freakin updated sdk by now Valve!
>>>
>>> Releasing Alien Swarm for free was a nice start but it was not developed
>>> to be a base of anything but Alien Swarm. It was released over a year ago -
>>> Last update is just days away from 1 year - and its basically dead. We need
>>> tools that work and eliminate the bs of creating, importing, and modifying
>>> content. We need code where everything works (without having to use
>>> community patches) and provides us a great base but doesn't overwhelm us
>>> with its size. We need better documentation as well. You can't expect the
>>> community to write all the help files.
>>>
>>> I've seen the words "masochist" and "Source" used near each other too
>>> many times to not say this stuff. Ever notice how dead the mailing list is
>>> in recent years?
>>>
>>> As it stands I can probably count the number of for profit, released,
>>> Source Engine games not produced by Valve on one hand. Build a better Source
>>> SDK and you will get more interest in Source licensing. Hell, I'd probably
>>> even call it something else so people aren't scared off by its previous rep.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 01:44:25 +0100
>>> From: stephen.swi...@gmail.com
>>> To: hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com
>>> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Should I switch ASW SDK or stay with Source 2007
>>>
>>>
>>> In addition to that Marek, I can see people taking advantage of Mac OS X
>>> and replay support
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 12:34 AM, Marek Sieradzki <
>>> marek.sierad...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> No significant changes at all, just that it has multithreaded leaf
>>> system, shadows and rendering which change 20-50 FPS into 150.
>>>
>>> ___
>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>>> please visit:
>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> - Stephen Swires
>>>
>>> ___ To unsubscribe, edit your
>>> list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit:
>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>>>
>>> ___
>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>>> please visit:
>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> *James Pizzurro*
>> Co-founder, Programmer
>> Agent Red Productions
>> 646-341- direct
>> ja...@agentredproductions.com | www.agentredproductions.com
>>
>> ___
>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>> please visit:
>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> - Stephen Swires
>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>
>
>
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Re: [hlcoders] Should I switch ASW SDK or stay with Source 2007

[Stephen Swires]

It's not actually the codebase that matters, it's the benefits of the later
Source versions including Mac support, better multi-threaded rendering, etc.
But I suppose for most of you, if you were to start a new project now,
Source wouldn't even be considered. You have UDK, Unity, and later this
month CryEngine 3 to play with.

On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 3:54 PM, James Pizzurro <
ja...@agentredproductions.com> wrote:

> In my opinion, 2007 is an excellent codebase. I realize Valve has
> added/changed/removed some things since its initial release to the public,
> but generally speaking, things work quite well with very few "required"
> changes. What I do think stands to be improved is Hammer, but it sounds like
> they're working on that, so to be honest, there's not much to complain
> about. Just my two cents...and this conversation should probably stop here
> or be taken elsewhere seeing as it's a bit off-topic, no?
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 1:30 AM, Nathan Voge  wrote:
>
>>  2007!!! You guys/gals realize its more than half way through 2011 -
>> right? We should have a freakin updated sdk by now Valve!
>>
>> Releasing Alien Swarm for free was a nice start but it was not developed
>> to be a base of anything but Alien Swarm. It was released over a year ago -
>> Last update is just days away from 1 year - and its basically dead. We need
>> tools that work and eliminate the bs of creating, importing, and modifying
>> content. We need code where everything works (without having to use
>> community patches) and provides us a great base but doesn't overwhelm us
>> with its size. We need better documentation as well. You can't expect the
>> community to write all the help files.
>>
>> I've seen the words "masochist" and "Source" used near each other too many
>> times to not say this stuff. Ever notice how dead the mailing list is in
>> recent years?
>>
>> As it stands I can probably count the number of for profit, released,
>> Source Engine games not produced by Valve on one hand. Build a better Source
>> SDK and you will get more interest in Source licensing. Hell, I'd probably
>> even call it something else so people aren't scared off by its previous rep.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 01:44:25 +0100
>> From: stephen.swi...@gmail.com
>> To: hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com
>> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Should I switch ASW SDK or stay with Source 2007
>>
>>
>> In addition to that Marek, I can see people taking advantage of Mac OS X
>> and replay support
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 12:34 AM, Marek Sieradzki <
>> marek.sierad...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> No significant changes at all, just that it has multithreaded leaf
>> system, shadows and rendering which change 20-50 FPS into 150.
>>
>> ___
>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>> please visit:
>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> - Stephen Swires
>>
>> ___ To unsubscribe, edit your
>> list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit:
>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>>
>> ___
>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>> please visit:
>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> *James Pizzurro*
> Co-founder, Programmer
> Agent Red Productions
> 646-341- direct
> ja...@agentredproductions.com | www.agentredproductions.com
>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>
>
>


-- 
- Stephen Swires
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Re: [hlcoders] Should I switch ASW SDK or stay with Source 2007

[James Pizzurro]

In my opinion, 2007 is an excellent codebase. I realize Valve has
added/changed/removed some things since its initial release to the public,
but generally speaking, things work quite well with very few "required"
changes. What I do think stands to be improved is Hammer, but it sounds like
they're working on that, so to be honest, there's not much to complain
about. Just my two cents...and this conversation should probably stop here
or be taken elsewhere seeing as it's a bit off-topic, no?

On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 1:30 AM, Nathan Voge  wrote:

>  2007!!! You guys/gals realize its more than half way through 2011 - right?
> We should have a freakin updated sdk by now Valve!
>
> Releasing Alien Swarm for free was a nice start but it was not developed to
> be a base of anything but Alien Swarm. It was released over a year ago -
> Last update is just days away from 1 year - and its basically dead. We need
> tools that work and eliminate the bs of creating, importing, and modifying
> content. We need code where everything works (without having to use
> community patches) and provides us a great base but doesn't overwhelm us
> with its size. We need better documentation as well. You can't expect the
> community to write all the help files.
>
> I've seen the words "masochist" and "Source" used near each other too many
> times to not say this stuff. Ever notice how dead the mailing list is in
> recent years?
>
> As it stands I can probably count the number of for profit, released,
> Source Engine games not produced by Valve on one hand. Build a better Source
> SDK and you will get more interest in Source licensing. Hell, I'd probably
> even call it something else so people aren't scared off by its previous rep.
>
>
>
> --
> Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 01:44:25 +0100
> From: stephen.swi...@gmail.com
> To: hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com
> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Should I switch ASW SDK or stay with Source 2007
>
>
> In addition to that Marek, I can see people taking advantage of Mac OS X
> and replay support
>
> On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 12:34 AM, Marek Sieradzki <
> marek.sierad...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> No significant changes at all, just that it has multithreaded leaf
> system, shadows and rendering which change 20-50 FPS into 150.
>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>
>
>
>
> --
> - Stephen Swires
>
> ___ To unsubscribe, edit your
> list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit:
> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>
>
>


-- 
*James Pizzurro*
Co-founder, Programmer
Agent Red Productions
646-341- direct
ja...@agentredproductions.com | www.agentredproductions.com
___
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Re: [hlcoders] Should I switch ASW SDK or stay with Source 2007

[Nathan Voge]

2007!!! You guys/gals realize its more than half way through 2011 - right? We 
should have a freakin updated sdk by now Valve!

Releasing Alien Swarm for free was a nice 
start but it was not developed to be a base of anything but Alien Swarm. It was 
released over a year ago - Last update is just days away from 1 year - and its 
basically dead. We need tools that work and eliminate the bs of creating, 
importing, and modifying content. We need code where everything works (without 
having to use community patches) and provides us a great base but doesn't 
overwhelm us with its size. We need better documentation as well. You can't 
expect the community to write all the help files.

I've seen the words "masochist" and "Source" used near each other too 
many times to not say this stuff. Ever notice how dead the mailing list 
is in recent years?

As it stands I can probably count the number of  for profit, released, Source 
Engine games not produced by Valve on one hand. Build a better Source SDK and 
you will get more interest in Source licensing. Hell, I'd probably even call it 
something else so people aren't scared off by its previous rep.



Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 01:44:25 +0100
From: stephen.swi...@gmail.com
To: hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com
Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Should I switch ASW SDK or stay with Source 2007

In addition to that Marek, I can see people taking advantage of Mac OS X and 
replay support

On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 12:34 AM, Marek Sieradzki  
wrote:

No significant changes at all, just that it has multithreaded leaf

system, shadows and rendering which change 20-50 FPS into 150.



___

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-- 
- Stephen Swires


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Re: [hlcoders] Should I switch ASW SDK or stay with Source 2007

[Psy_Commando]

Ok I found the problem, my box was tied to a func_brush... Anyways thanks :)

On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 3:27 PM, Tom Edwards wrote:

> If you get a leak portals aren't calculated so that's logical. But the only
> cause I can think of is that you might still have the structure_seal entity,
> which will be on water brushes as well as the big ones surrounding the
> world. I can compile maps just fine, so it is possible!
>
>
> On 31/07/2011 8:09, Psy_Commando wrote:
>
>> It would seem that removing "-alldetail" doesn't hep. It seems the program
>> doesn't find the prt file when vvis starts... And I've had weird leaks.
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 7:08 PM, Psy_Commando > psycomma...@gmail.com>**> wrote:
>>
>>the vbsp version that comes with asw, turns every brush
>>into func_detail, so there's no visibility optimization
>>
>>That only happens because the compile profiles created by the
>>AS authoring tools have -alldetail (or something similar) by
>>default. Remove that argument and you get a regular compile.
>>
>>Doh...  thanks for correcting me :)
>>
>>
>>I think the "tools" Gabe was on about are regarding the art
>>pipeline and Hammer, not the actual code.
>>
>>Well that'd be better than nothing, I'd love an hammer update, so
>>I don't have to hope it won't crash each time I want to look at an
>>ent's flags :(
>>
>>Well then, I guess going with ASW is probably a good idea
>>considering all this, but I'll probably have to get hacky with the
>>shaderlib :(
>>
>>
>>On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 3:42 PM, Tom Edwards
>>> >
>> wrote:
>>
>>the vbsp version that comes with asw, turns every brush
>>into func_detail, so there's no visibility optimization
>>
>>That only happens because the compile profiles created by the
>>AS authoring tools have -alldetail (or something similar) by
>>default. Remove that argument and you get a regular compile.
>>
>>
>>And I wonder if a mod can be incentive enough to download
>>the complete ASW just to play the mod, why can't we just
>>have a SDK base ASW ?
>>
>>Alien Swarm is 2GB, SDK Base 2007 is 4GB (albeit with a lot of
>>shared stuff that most people already have). A Swarm base
>>would be lovely all the same, and without any AS content could
>>total less than 300MB.
>>
>>And yes, getting animstate right is a bitch. :) Needing to
>>blank SetAnimation() had me stuck for ages.
>>
>>
>>On 30/07/2011 7:48, Psy_Commando wrote:
>>
>>Didn't Gabe Newell said they were working on sdk tools one
>>or two months ago ?
>>Anyways, the thing is, I'm not very confident in the ASW
>>devs, or ASW's future. I heard from the guys I'm helping
>>at Hypovolemia, that they gave them a fixed matchmaking
>>dll to fix the hard-coded limit of 5 players, but after
>>issuing them with the fix they went silent and didn't
>>release it officially, as far as I know. They haven't
>>heard from them since May, if I remember correctly.
>>We also don't have access to the shaderlib, I'd swap it
>>with the orange box's shaderlib, but they seem to have a
>>lot of custom shaders. And the vbsp version that comes
>>with asw, turns every brush into func_detail, so there's
>>no visibility optimization,  we have to use the OB vbsp
>>instead for fps, or 3rd person mods :(
>>
>>And I wonder if a mod can be incentive enough to download
>>the complete ASW just to play the mod, why can't we just
>>have a SDK base ASW ? Or even just merge the ASW SDK with
>>the source sdk, so it may get a little more attention from
>>the devs, and community.
>>
>>And thanks for the skeleton code, I'll check it out. But
>>I'm pretty far along tweaking the asw_player back into a
>>"regular" player, I'm still struggling a little with the
>>anim system though.
>>
>>On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 11:02 AM, Tom Edwards
>>>
>>>>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>   There's a change to the way SteamIDs are handled that
>>breaks game
>>   DLL networking, Tony. IIRC that's why Source 2009 was
>>split off
>>   from 2007 in the first place. Sounds like something
>>easy to fix
>>   though...
>>
>>
>>   On 30/07/2011 3:46, Tony "omega" Sergi wrote:
>>
>>   Oh, and when I say there are no significant changes
>>in the
>>   code, i mean the pub

Re: [hlcoders] Should I switch ASW SDK or stay with Source 2007

[Tom Edwards]

If you get a leak portals aren't calculated so that's logical. But the 
only cause I can think of is that you might still have the 
structure_seal entity, which will be on water brushes as well as the big 
ones surrounding the world. I can compile maps just fine, so it is possible!


On 31/07/2011 8:09, Psy_Commando wrote:
It would seem that removing "-alldetail" doesn't hep. It seems the 
program doesn't find the prt file when vvis starts... And I've had 
weird leaks.


On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 7:08 PM, Psy_Commando > wrote:


the vbsp version that comes with asw, turns every brush
into func_detail, so there's no visibility optimization

That only happens because the compile profiles created by the
AS authoring tools have -alldetail (or something similar) by
default. Remove that argument and you get a regular compile.

Doh...  thanks for correcting me :)


I think the "tools" Gabe was on about are regarding the art
pipeline and Hammer, not the actual code.

Well that'd be better than nothing, I'd love an hammer update, so
I don't have to hope it won't crash each time I want to look at an
ent's flags :(

Well then, I guess going with ASW is probably a good idea
considering all this, but I'll probably have to get hacky with the
shaderlib :(


On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 3:42 PM, Tom Edwards
mailto:t_edwa...@btinternet.com>> wrote:

the vbsp version that comes with asw, turns every brush
into func_detail, so there's no visibility optimization

That only happens because the compile profiles created by the
AS authoring tools have -alldetail (or something similar) by
default. Remove that argument and you get a regular compile.


And I wonder if a mod can be incentive enough to download
the complete ASW just to play the mod, why can't we just
have a SDK base ASW ?

Alien Swarm is 2GB, SDK Base 2007 is 4GB (albeit with a lot of
shared stuff that most people already have). A Swarm base
would be lovely all the same, and without any AS content could
total less than 300MB.

And yes, getting animstate right is a bitch. :) Needing to
blank SetAnimation() had me stuck for ages.


On 30/07/2011 7:48, Psy_Commando wrote:

Didn't Gabe Newell said they were working on sdk tools one
or two months ago ?
Anyways, the thing is, I'm not very confident in the ASW
devs, or ASW's future. I heard from the guys I'm helping
at Hypovolemia, that they gave them a fixed matchmaking
dll to fix the hard-coded limit of 5 players, but after
issuing them with the fix they went silent and didn't
release it officially, as far as I know. They haven't
heard from them since May, if I remember correctly.
We also don't have access to the shaderlib, I'd swap it
with the orange box's shaderlib, but they seem to have a
lot of custom shaders. And the vbsp version that comes
with asw, turns every brush into func_detail, so there's
no visibility optimization,  we have to use the OB vbsp
instead for fps, or 3rd person mods :(

And I wonder if a mod can be incentive enough to download
the complete ASW just to play the mod, why can't we just
have a SDK base ASW ? Or even just merge the ASW SDK with
the source sdk, so it may get a little more attention from
the devs, and community.

And thanks for the skeleton code, I'll check it out. But
I'm pretty far along tweaking the asw_player back into a
"regular" player, I'm still struggling a little with the
anim system though.

On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 11:02 AM, Tom Edwards
mailto:t_edwa...@btinternet.com>
>> wrote:

   There's a change to the way SteamIDs are handled that
breaks game
   DLL networking, Tony. IIRC that's why Source 2009 was
split off
   from 2007 in the first place. Sounds like something
easy to fix
   though...


   On 30/07/2011 3:46, Tony "omega" Sergi wrote:

   Oh, and when I say there are no significant changes
in the
   code, i mean the publically available mod code. not
engine,
   and stuff only valve + licensee's get.


   On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 11:45 PM, Tony "omega" Sergi
mailto:omegal...@gmail.com>
>

  

Re: [hlcoders] Should I switch ASW SDK or stay with Source 2007

[Psy_Commando]

It would seem that removing "-alldetail" doesn't hep. It seems the program
doesn't find the prt file when vvis starts... And I've had weird leaks.

On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 7:08 PM, Psy_Commando  wrote:

> the vbsp version that comes with asw, turns every brush into func_detail,
>>> so there's no visibility optimization
>>>
>> That only happens because the compile profiles created by the AS authoring
>> tools have -alldetail (or something similar) by default. Remove that
>> argument and you get a regular compile.
>>
> Doh...  thanks for correcting me :)
>
>
> I think the "tools" Gabe was on about are regarding the art pipeline and
>> Hammer, not the actual code.
>
> Well that'd be better than nothing, I'd love an hammer update, so I don't
> have to hope it won't crash each time I want to look at an ent's flags :(
>
> Well then, I guess going with ASW is probably a good idea considering all
> this, but I'll probably have to get hacky with the shaderlib :(
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 3:42 PM, Tom Edwards wrote:
>
>> the vbsp version that comes with asw, turns every brush into func_detail,
>>> so there's no visibility optimization
>>>
>> That only happens because the compile profiles created by the AS authoring
>> tools have -alldetail (or something similar) by default. Remove that
>> argument and you get a regular compile.
>>
>>
>>  And I wonder if a mod can be incentive enough to download the complete
>>> ASW just to play the mod, why can't we just have a SDK base ASW ?
>>>
>> Alien Swarm is 2GB, SDK Base 2007 is 4GB (albeit with a lot of shared
>> stuff that most people already have). A Swarm base would be lovely all the
>> same, and without any AS content could total less than 300MB.
>>
>> And yes, getting animstate right is a bitch. :) Needing to blank
>> SetAnimation() had me stuck for ages.
>>
>>
>> On 30/07/2011 7:48, Psy_Commando wrote:
>>
>>> Didn't Gabe Newell said they were working on sdk tools one or two months
>>> ago ?
>>> Anyways, the thing is, I'm not very confident in the ASW devs, or ASW's
>>> future. I heard from the guys I'm helping at Hypovolemia, that they gave
>>> them a fixed matchmaking dll to fix the hard-coded limit of 5 players, but
>>> after issuing them with the fix they went silent and didn't release it
>>> officially, as far as I know. They haven't heard from them since May, if I
>>> remember correctly.
>>> We also don't have access to the shaderlib, I'd swap it with the orange
>>> box's shaderlib, but they seem to have a lot of custom shaders. And the vbsp
>>> version that comes with asw, turns every brush into func_detail, so there's
>>> no visibility optimization,  we have to use the OB vbsp instead for fps, or
>>> 3rd person mods :(
>>>
>>> And I wonder if a mod can be incentive enough to download the complete
>>> ASW just to play the mod, why can't we just have a SDK base ASW ? Or even
>>> just merge the ASW SDK with the source sdk, so it may get a little more
>>> attention from the devs, and community.
>>>
>>> And thanks for the skeleton code, I'll check it out. But I'm pretty far
>>> along tweaking the asw_player back into a "regular" player, I'm still
>>> struggling a little with the anim system though.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 11:02 AM, Tom Edwards 
>>> >> t_edwards@btinternet.**com >> wrote:
>>>
>>>There's a change to the way SteamIDs are handled that breaks game
>>>DLL networking, Tony. IIRC that's why Source 2009 was split off
>>>from 2007 in the first place. Sounds like something easy to fix
>>>though...
>>>
>>>
>>>On 30/07/2011 3:46, Tony "omega" Sergi wrote:
>>>
>>>Oh, and when I say there are no significant changes in the
>>>code, i mean the publically available mod code. not engine,
>>>and stuff only valve + licensee's get.
>>>
>>>
>>>On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 11:45 PM, Tony "omega" Sergi
>>>mailto:omegal...@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>   btw, there *really* aren't *that many* differences between 2007
>>>   and 2009, granted, it probably would be nicer to have an
>>>SDK for
>>>   it, just so that it's the latest and greatest, but there are no
>>>   significant changes in the code.
>>>   and last i looked, it should have no problem loading 2007
>>>compiled
>>>   mods, as the interfaces required haven't changed from what
>>>I can
>>>   see. (TF2 is running 2009, and you run mods from that
>>>engine, at
>>>   least where the DS is concerned..)
>>>
>>>   I suppose the next best thing would be just to update
>>>"source sdk
>>>   base 2007" up to "source sdk base 2009".
>>>
>>>   - Tony
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 10:06 PM, Tobias Kammersgaard
>>>>>
>>> >> >
>>>
>>> >>
>>> 

Re: [hlcoders] Should I switch ASW SDK or stay with Source 2007

[Stephen Swires]

In addition to that Marek, I can see people taking advantage of Mac OS X and
replay support

On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 12:34 AM, Marek Sieradzki  wrote:

> No significant changes at all, just that it has multithreaded leaf
> system, shadows and rendering which change 20-50 FPS into 150.
>
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> please visit:
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>
>


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Re: [hlcoders] Should I switch ASW SDK or stay with Source 2007

[Marek Sieradzki]

No significant changes at all, just that it has multithreaded leaf
system, shadows and rendering which change 20-50 FPS into 150.

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Re: [hlcoders] Should I switch ASW SDK or stay with Source 2007

[Psy_Commando]

>
> the vbsp version that comes with asw, turns every brush into func_detail,
>> so there's no visibility optimization
>>
> That only happens because the compile profiles created by the AS authoring
> tools have -alldetail (or something similar) by default. Remove that
> argument and you get a regular compile.
>
Doh...  thanks for correcting me :)

I think the "tools" Gabe was on about are regarding the art pipeline and
> Hammer, not the actual code.

Well that'd be better than nothing, I'd love an hammer update, so I don't
have to hope it won't crash each time I want to look at an ent's flags :(

Well then, I guess going with ASW is probably a good idea considering all
this, but I'll probably have to get hacky with the shaderlib :(

On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 3:42 PM, Tom Edwards wrote:

> the vbsp version that comes with asw, turns every brush into func_detail,
>> so there's no visibility optimization
>>
> That only happens because the compile profiles created by the AS authoring
> tools have -alldetail (or something similar) by default. Remove that
> argument and you get a regular compile.
>
>
>  And I wonder if a mod can be incentive enough to download the complete ASW
>> just to play the mod, why can't we just have a SDK base ASW ?
>>
> Alien Swarm is 2GB, SDK Base 2007 is 4GB (albeit with a lot of shared stuff
> that most people already have). A Swarm base would be lovely all the same,
> and without any AS content could total less than 300MB.
>
> And yes, getting animstate right is a bitch. :) Needing to blank
> SetAnimation() had me stuck for ages.
>
>
> On 30/07/2011 7:48, Psy_Commando wrote:
>
>> Didn't Gabe Newell said they were working on sdk tools one or two months
>> ago ?
>> Anyways, the thing is, I'm not very confident in the ASW devs, or ASW's
>> future. I heard from the guys I'm helping at Hypovolemia, that they gave
>> them a fixed matchmaking dll to fix the hard-coded limit of 5 players, but
>> after issuing them with the fix they went silent and didn't release it
>> officially, as far as I know. They haven't heard from them since May, if I
>> remember correctly.
>> We also don't have access to the shaderlib, I'd swap it with the orange
>> box's shaderlib, but they seem to have a lot of custom shaders. And the vbsp
>> version that comes with asw, turns every brush into func_detail, so there's
>> no visibility optimization,  we have to use the OB vbsp instead for fps, or
>> 3rd person mods :(
>>
>> And I wonder if a mod can be incentive enough to download the complete ASW
>> just to play the mod, why can't we just have a SDK base ASW ? Or even just
>> merge the ASW SDK with the source sdk, so it may get a little more attention
>> from the devs, and community.
>>
>> And thanks for the skeleton code, I'll check it out. But I'm pretty far
>> along tweaking the asw_player back into a "regular" player, I'm still
>> struggling a little with the anim system though.
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 11:02 AM, Tom Edwards 
>> > t_edwards@btinternet.**com >> wrote:
>>
>>There's a change to the way SteamIDs are handled that breaks game
>>DLL networking, Tony. IIRC that's why Source 2009 was split off
>>from 2007 in the first place. Sounds like something easy to fix
>>though...
>>
>>
>>On 30/07/2011 3:46, Tony "omega" Sergi wrote:
>>
>>Oh, and when I say there are no significant changes in the
>>code, i mean the publically available mod code. not engine,
>>and stuff only valve + licensee's get.
>>
>>
>>On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 11:45 PM, Tony "omega" Sergi
>>mailto:omegal...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>
>>   btw, there *really* aren't *that many* differences between 2007
>>   and 2009, granted, it probably would be nicer to have an
>>SDK for
>>   it, just so that it's the latest and greatest, but there are no
>>   significant changes in the code.
>>   and last i looked, it should have no problem loading 2007
>>compiled
>>   mods, as the interfaces required haven't changed from what
>>I can
>>   see. (TF2 is running 2009, and you run mods from that
>>engine, at
>>   least where the DS is concerned..)
>>
>>   I suppose the next best thing would be just to update
>>"source sdk
>>   base 2007" up to "source sdk base 2009".
>>
>>   - Tony
>>
>>
>>
>>   On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 10:06 PM, Tobias Kammersgaard
>>>> >
>>>
>> >>
>> wrote:
>>
>>   The biggest problem with using the ASW code is really
>>the lack
>>   of Half-Life 2 content. The singleplayer mod I'm working on
>>   would love to have features from the ASW code base, however
>>   lack of HL2 stops us

Re: [hlcoders] Should I switch ASW SDK or stay with Source 2007

[Tom Edwards]

the vbsp version that comes with asw, turns every brush into 
func_detail, so there's no visibility optimization
That only happens because the compile profiles created by the AS 
authoring tools have -alldetail (or something similar) by default. 
Remove that argument and you get a regular compile.


And I wonder if a mod can be incentive enough to download the complete 
ASW just to play the mod, why can't we just have a SDK base ASW ?
Alien Swarm is 2GB, SDK Base 2007 is 4GB (albeit with a lot of shared 
stuff that most people already have). A Swarm base would be lovely all 
the same, and without any AS content could total less than 300MB.


And yes, getting animstate right is a bitch. :) Needing to blank 
SetAnimation() had me stuck for ages.


On 30/07/2011 7:48, Psy_Commando wrote:
Didn't Gabe Newell said they were working on sdk tools one or two 
months ago ?
Anyways, the thing is, I'm not very confident in the ASW devs, or 
ASW's future. I heard from the guys I'm helping at Hypovolemia, that 
they gave them a fixed matchmaking dll to fix the hard-coded limit of 
5 players, but after issuing them with the fix they went silent and 
didn't release it officially, as far as I know. They haven't heard 
from them since May, if I remember correctly.
We also don't have access to the shaderlib, I'd swap it with the 
orange box's shaderlib, but they seem to have a lot of custom shaders. 
And the vbsp version that comes with asw, turns every brush into 
func_detail, so there's no visibility optimization,  we have to use 
the OB vbsp instead for fps, or 3rd person mods :(


And I wonder if a mod can be incentive enough to download the complete 
ASW just to play the mod, why can't we just have a SDK base ASW ? Or 
even just merge the ASW SDK with the source sdk, so it may get a 
little more attention from the devs, and community.


And thanks for the skeleton code, I'll check it out. But I'm pretty 
far along tweaking the asw_player back into a "regular" player, I'm 
still struggling a little with the anim system though.


On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 11:02 AM, Tom Edwards 
mailto:t_edwa...@btinternet.com>> wrote:


There's a change to the way SteamIDs are handled that breaks game
DLL networking, Tony. IIRC that's why Source 2009 was split off
from 2007 in the first place. Sounds like something easy to fix
though...


On 30/07/2011 3:46, Tony "omega" Sergi wrote:

Oh, and when I say there are no significant changes in the
code, i mean the publically available mod code. not engine,
and stuff only valve + licensee's get.


On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 11:45 PM, Tony "omega" Sergi
mailto:omegal...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:

   btw, there *really* aren't *that many* differences between 2007
   and 2009, granted, it probably would be nicer to have an
SDK for
   it, just so that it's the latest and greatest, but there are no
   significant changes in the code.
   and last i looked, it should have no problem loading 2007
compiled
   mods, as the interfaces required haven't changed from what
I can
   see. (TF2 is running 2009, and you run mods from that
engine, at
   least where the DS is concerned..)

   I suppose the next best thing would be just to update
"source sdk
   base 2007" up to "source sdk base 2009".

   - Tony



   On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 10:06 PM, Tobias Kammersgaard
mailto:tobias.kammersga...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:

   The biggest problem with using the ASW code is really
the lack
   of Half-Life 2 content. The singleplayer mod I'm working on
   would love to have features from the ASW code base, however
   lack of HL2 stops us from going there. Granted we should
   replace all the HL2 content with out own, but I don't
see that
   happening with a team of 5 people.

   However I will checkout your skeleton Tom :)!

   - ScarT



   On 30 July 2011 14:57, Tom Edwards
mailto:t_edwa...@btinternet.com>
>> wrote:

   Don't expect any more significant updates to 2007/9, if
   for no other reason than the move from GCF to NCF.
Alien
   Swarm is from the main codeline and is much more recent
   than 2007/9 so is clearly the best choice for new mods.

   Since you probably aren't making a top-down shooter
here
   is an alpha for the Alien Swarm Skeleton, which is a
   simple first-person game. Hopefully having something
   publ

Re: [hlcoders] Should I switch ASW SDK or stay with Source 2007

[Stephen Swires]

I think the "tools" Gabe was on about are regarding the art pipeline and
Hammer, not the actual code.

And Tony, wasn't gameui made a part of the mod code rather than being a part
of the engine in 2009?

On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 7:48 PM, Psy_Commando  wrote:

> Didn't Gabe Newell said they were working on sdk tools one or two months
> ago ?
> Anyways, the thing is, I'm not very confident in the ASW devs, or ASW's
> future. I heard from the guys I'm helping at Hypovolemia, that they gave
> them a fixed matchmaking dll to fix the hard-coded limit of 5 players, but
> after issuing them with the fix they went silent and didn't release it
> officially, as far as I know. They haven't heard from them since May, if I
> remember correctly.
> We also don't have access to the shaderlib, I'd swap it with the orange
> box's shaderlib, but they seem to have a lot of custom shaders. And the vbsp
> version that comes with asw, turns every brush into func_detail, so there's
> no visibility optimization,  we have to use the OB vbsp instead for fps, or
> 3rd person mods :(
>
> And I wonder if a mod can be incentive enough to download the complete ASW
> just to play the mod, why can't we just have a SDK base ASW ? Or even just
> merge the ASW SDK with the source sdk, so it may get a little more attention
> from the devs, and community.
>
> And thanks for the skeleton code, I'll check it out. But I'm pretty far
> along tweaking the asw_player back into a "regular" player, I'm still
> struggling a little with the anim system though.
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 11:02 AM, Tom Edwards wrote:
>
>> There's a change to the way SteamIDs are handled that breaks game DLL
>> networking, Tony. IIRC that's why Source 2009 was split off from 2007 in the
>> first place. Sounds like something easy to fix though...
>>
>>
>> On 30/07/2011 3:46, Tony "omega" Sergi wrote:
>>
>>> Oh, and when I say there are no significant changes in the code, i mean
>>> the publically available mod code. not engine, and stuff only valve +
>>> licensee's get.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 11:45 PM, Tony "omega" Sergi <
>>> omegal...@gmail.com > wrote:
>>>
>>>btw, there *really* aren't *that many* differences between 2007
>>>and 2009, granted, it probably would be nicer to have an SDK for
>>>it, just so that it's the latest and greatest, but there are no
>>>significant changes in the code.
>>>and last i looked, it should have no problem loading 2007 compiled
>>>mods, as the interfaces required haven't changed from what I can
>>>see. (TF2 is running 2009, and you run mods from that engine, at
>>>least where the DS is concerned..)
>>>
>>>I suppose the next best thing would be just to update "source sdk
>>>base 2007" up to "source sdk base 2009".
>>>
>>>- Tony
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 10:06 PM, Tobias Kammersgaard
>>>>>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>The biggest problem with using the ASW code is really the lack
>>>of Half-Life 2 content. The singleplayer mod I'm working on
>>>would love to have features from the ASW code base, however
>>>lack of HL2 stops us from going there. Granted we should
>>>replace all the HL2 content with out own, but I don't see that
>>>happening with a team of 5 people.
>>>
>>>However I will checkout your skeleton Tom :)!
>>>
>>>- ScarT
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On 30 July 2011 14:57, Tom Edwards >>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>Don't expect any more significant updates to 2007/9, if
>>>for no other reason than the move from GCF to NCF. Alien
>>>Swarm is from the main codeline and is much more recent
>>>than 2007/9 so is clearly the best choice for new mods.
>>>
>>>Since you probably aren't making a top-down shooter here
>>>is an alpha for the Alien Swarm Skeleton, which is a
>>>simple first-person game. Hopefully having something
>>>public will encourage me to spend more time on its
>>>remaining problems. :)
>>>
>>>http://steamreview.org/**external/vdc/srcsdk-skeleton-**
>>> 2.0a1.zip
>>>
>>>
>>>On 30/07/2011 12:24, Psy_Commando wrote:
>>>
>>>Sorry, for the previous message, forgot to put a
>>>subject...
>>>
>>>Hi,this time I'm having a more complicated question.
>>>Me and my team were about to switch from Source 2007
>>>to Alien Swarm Source, to make our mod free, and to
>>>have access to the menu and loading UI and the Alien
>>>Swarm assets. However, Source 2007 is now free, so
>>>that removed one of the big advantages of ASW. Beside
>>>ASW, has tons of references directly to member

Re: [hlcoders] Should I switch ASW SDK or stay with Source 2007

[Psy_Commando]

Didn't Gabe Newell said they were working on sdk tools one or two months ago
?
Anyways, the thing is, I'm not very confident in the ASW devs, or ASW's
future. I heard from the guys I'm helping at Hypovolemia, that they gave
them a fixed matchmaking dll to fix the hard-coded limit of 5 players, but
after issuing them with the fix they went silent and didn't release it
officially, as far as I know. They haven't heard from them since May, if I
remember correctly.
We also don't have access to the shaderlib, I'd swap it with the orange
box's shaderlib, but they seem to have a lot of custom shaders. And the vbsp
version that comes with asw, turns every brush into func_detail, so there's
no visibility optimization,  we have to use the OB vbsp instead for fps, or
3rd person mods :(

And I wonder if a mod can be incentive enough to download the complete ASW
just to play the mod, why can't we just have a SDK base ASW ? Or even just
merge the ASW SDK with the source sdk, so it may get a little more attention
from the devs, and community.

And thanks for the skeleton code, I'll check it out. But I'm pretty far
along tweaking the asw_player back into a "regular" player, I'm still
struggling a little with the anim system though.

On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 11:02 AM, Tom Edwards wrote:

> There's a change to the way SteamIDs are handled that breaks game DLL
> networking, Tony. IIRC that's why Source 2009 was split off from 2007 in the
> first place. Sounds like something easy to fix though...
>
>
> On 30/07/2011 3:46, Tony "omega" Sergi wrote:
>
>> Oh, and when I say there are no significant changes in the code, i mean
>> the publically available mod code. not engine, and stuff only valve +
>> licensee's get.
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 11:45 PM, Tony "omega" Sergi 
>> > omegal...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>btw, there *really* aren't *that many* differences between 2007
>>and 2009, granted, it probably would be nicer to have an SDK for
>>it, just so that it's the latest and greatest, but there are no
>>significant changes in the code.
>>and last i looked, it should have no problem loading 2007 compiled
>>mods, as the interfaces required haven't changed from what I can
>>see. (TF2 is running 2009, and you run mods from that engine, at
>>least where the DS is concerned..)
>>
>>I suppose the next best thing would be just to update "source sdk
>>base 2007" up to "source sdk base 2009".
>>
>>- Tony
>>
>>
>>
>>On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 10:06 PM, Tobias Kammersgaard
>>>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>The biggest problem with using the ASW code is really the lack
>>of Half-Life 2 content. The singleplayer mod I'm working on
>>would love to have features from the ASW code base, however
>>lack of HL2 stops us from going there. Granted we should
>>replace all the HL2 content with out own, but I don't see that
>>happening with a team of 5 people.
>>
>>However I will checkout your skeleton Tom :)!
>>
>>- ScarT
>>
>>
>>
>>On 30 July 2011 14:57, Tom Edwards >>
>> wrote:
>>
>>Don't expect any more significant updates to 2007/9, if
>>for no other reason than the move from GCF to NCF. Alien
>>Swarm is from the main codeline and is much more recent
>>than 2007/9 so is clearly the best choice for new mods.
>>
>>Since you probably aren't making a top-down shooter here
>>is an alpha for the Alien Swarm Skeleton, which is a
>>simple first-person game. Hopefully having something
>>public will encourage me to spend more time on its
>>remaining problems. :)
>>
>>http://steamreview.org/**external/vdc/srcsdk-skeleton-**
>> 2.0a1.zip 
>>
>>
>>On 30/07/2011 12:24, Psy_Commando wrote:
>>
>>Sorry, for the previous message, forgot to put a
>>subject...
>>
>>Hi,this time I'm having a more complicated question.
>>Me and my team were about to switch from Source 2007
>>to Alien Swarm Source, to make our mod free, and to
>>have access to the menu and loading UI and the Alien
>>Swarm assets. However, Source 2007 is now free, so
>>that removed one of the big advantages of ASW. Beside
>>ASW, has tons of references directly to member
>>variables of other classes, which makes it very hard
>>to make significant changes.
>>
>>What I'm wondering is, is this a good move in the long
>>term ? I mean ASW, and the ASW SDK are pretty much
>>left to die by its devs, and there are about two
>>active mods... Unlike with ASW I can expect that there
>>

Re: [hlcoders] Should I switch ASW SDK or stay with Source 2007

[Tom Edwards]

There's a change to the way SteamIDs are handled that breaks game DLL 
networking, Tony. IIRC that's why Source 2009 was split off from 2007 in 
the first place. Sounds like something easy to fix though...


On 30/07/2011 3:46, Tony "omega" Sergi wrote:
Oh, and when I say there are no significant changes in the code, i 
mean the publically available mod code. not engine, and stuff only 
valve + licensee's get.



On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 11:45 PM, Tony "omega" Sergi 
mailto:omegal...@gmail.com>> wrote:


btw, there *really* aren't *that many* differences between 2007
and 2009, granted, it probably would be nicer to have an SDK for
it, just so that it's the latest and greatest, but there are no
significant changes in the code.
and last i looked, it should have no problem loading 2007 compiled
mods, as the interfaces required haven't changed from what I can
see. (TF2 is running 2009, and you run mods from that engine, at
least where the DS is concerned..)

I suppose the next best thing would be just to update "source sdk
base 2007" up to "source sdk base 2009".

- Tony



On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 10:06 PM, Tobias Kammersgaard
mailto:tobias.kammersga...@gmail.com>> wrote:

The biggest problem with using the ASW code is really the lack
of Half-Life 2 content. The singleplayer mod I'm working on
would love to have features from the ASW code base, however
lack of HL2 stops us from going there. Granted we should
replace all the HL2 content with out own, but I don't see that
happening with a team of 5 people.

However I will checkout your skeleton Tom :)!

- ScarT



On 30 July 2011 14:57, Tom Edwards mailto:t_edwa...@btinternet.com>> wrote:

Don't expect any more significant updates to 2007/9, if
for no other reason than the move from GCF to NCF. Alien
Swarm is from the main codeline and is much more recent
than 2007/9 so is clearly the best choice for new mods.

Since you probably aren't making a top-down shooter here
is an alpha for the Alien Swarm Skeleton, which is a
simple first-person game. Hopefully having something
public will encourage me to spend more time on its
remaining problems. :)

http://steamreview.org/external/vdc/srcsdk-skeleton-2.0a1.zip


On 30/07/2011 12:24, Psy_Commando wrote:

Sorry, for the previous message, forgot to put a
subject...

Hi,this time I'm having a more complicated question.
Me and my team were about to switch from Source 2007
to Alien Swarm Source, to make our mod free, and to
have access to the menu and loading UI and the Alien
Swarm assets. However, Source 2007 is now free, so
that removed one of the big advantages of ASW. Beside
ASW, has tons of references directly to member
variables of other classes, which makes it very hard
to make significant changes.

What I'm wondering is, is this a good move in the long
term ? I mean ASW, and the ASW SDK are pretty much
left to die by its devs, and there are about two
active mods... Unlike with ASW I can expect that there
will be a Source 2009 update at some point with the
Source SDK. Any suggestions or comments ?


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-- 
-Tony





--
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Re: [hlcoders] Should I switch ASW SDK or stay with Source 2007

[Tom Edwards]

Thanks, email me if you find anything wrong!

On 30/07/2011 2:06, Tobias Kammersgaard wrote:
The biggest problem with using the ASW code is really the lack of 
Half-Life 2 content. The singleplayer mod I'm working on would love to 
have features from the ASW code base, however lack of HL2 stops us 
from going there. Granted we should replace all the HL2 content with 
out own, but I don't see that happening with a team of 5 people.


However I will checkout your skeleton Tom :)!

- ScarT


On 30 July 2011 14:57, Tom Edwards > wrote:


Don't expect any more significant updates to 2007/9, if for no
other reason than the move from GCF to NCF. Alien Swarm is from
the main codeline and is much more recent than 2007/9 so is
clearly the best choice for new mods.

Since you probably aren't making a top-down shooter here is an
alpha for the Alien Swarm Skeleton, which is a simple first-person
game. Hopefully having something public will encourage me to spend
more time on its remaining problems. :)

http://steamreview.org/external/vdc/srcsdk-skeleton-2.0a1.zip


On 30/07/2011 12:24, Psy_Commando wrote:

Sorry, for the previous message, forgot to put a subject...

Hi,this time I'm having a more complicated question. Me and my
team were about to switch from Source 2007 to Alien Swarm
Source, to make our mod free, and to have access to the menu
and loading UI and the Alien Swarm assets. However, Source
2007 is now free, so that removed one of the big advantages of
ASW. Beside ASW, has tons of references directly to member
variables of other classes, which makes it very hard to make
significant changes.

What I'm wondering is, is this a good move in the long term ?
I mean ASW, and the ASW SDK are pretty much left to die by its
devs, and there are about two active mods... Unlike with ASW I
can expect that there will be a Source 2009 update at some
point with the Source SDK. Any suggestions or comments ?


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Re: [hlcoders] Should I switch ASW SDK or stay with Source 2007

[Tony "omega" Sergi]

Oh, and when I say there are no significant changes in the code, i mean the
publically available mod code. not engine, and stuff only valve + licensee's
get.


On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 11:45 PM, Tony "omega" Sergi wrote:

> btw, there *really* aren't *that many* differences between 2007 and 2009,
> granted, it probably would be nicer to have an SDK for it, just so that it's
> the latest and greatest, but there are no significant changes in the code.
> and last i looked, it should have no problem loading 2007 compiled mods, as
> the interfaces required haven't changed from what I can see. (TF2 is running
> 2009, and you run mods from that engine, at least where the DS is
> concerned..)
>
> I suppose the next best thing would be just to update "source sdk base
> 2007" up to "source sdk base 2009".
>
> - Tony
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 10:06 PM, Tobias Kammersgaard <
> tobias.kammersga...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The biggest problem with using the ASW code is really the lack of
>> Half-Life 2 content. The singleplayer mod I'm working on would love to have
>> features from the ASW code base, however lack of HL2 stops us from going
>> there. Granted we should replace all the HL2 content with out own, but I
>> don't see that happening with a team of 5 people.
>>
>> However I will checkout your skeleton Tom :)!
>>
>> - ScarT
>>
>>
>>
>> On 30 July 2011 14:57, Tom Edwards  wrote:
>>
>>> Don't expect any more significant updates to 2007/9, if for no other
>>> reason than the move from GCF to NCF. Alien Swarm is from the main codeline
>>> and is much more recent than 2007/9 so is clearly the best choice for new
>>> mods.
>>>
>>> Since you probably aren't making a top-down shooter here is an alpha for
>>> the Alien Swarm Skeleton, which is a simple first-person game. Hopefully
>>> having something public will encourage me to spend more time on its
>>> remaining problems. :)
>>>
>>> http://steamreview.org/**external/vdc/srcsdk-skeleton-**2.0a1.zip
>>>
>>>
>>> On 30/07/2011 12:24, Psy_Commando wrote:
>>>
 Sorry, for the previous message, forgot to put a subject...

 Hi,this time I'm having a more complicated question. Me and my team were
 about to switch from Source 2007 to Alien Swarm Source, to make our mod
 free, and to have access to the menu and loading UI and the Alien Swarm
 assets. However, Source 2007 is now free, so that removed one of the big
 advantages of ASW. Beside ASW, has tons of references directly to member
 variables of other classes, which makes it very hard to make significant
 changes.

 What I'm wondering is, is this a good move in the long term ? I mean
 ASW, and the ASW SDK are pretty much left to die by its devs, and there are
 about two active mods... Unlike with ASW I can expect that there will be a
 Source 2009 update at some point with the Source SDK. Any suggestions or
 comments ?


 __**_
 To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
 please visit:
 http://list.valvesoftware.com/**mailman/listinfo/hlcoders


>>> __**_
>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>>> please visit:
>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/**mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ___
>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>> please visit:
>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> -Tony
>
>


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-Tony
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Re: [hlcoders] Should I switch ASW SDK or stay with Source 2007

[Tony "omega" Sergi]

btw, there *really* aren't *that many* differences between 2007 and 2009,
granted, it probably would be nicer to have an SDK for it, just so that it's
the latest and greatest, but there are no significant changes in the code.
and last i looked, it should have no problem loading 2007 compiled mods, as
the interfaces required haven't changed from what I can see. (TF2 is running
2009, and you run mods from that engine, at least where the DS is
concerned..)

I suppose the next best thing would be just to update "source sdk base 2007"
up to "source sdk base 2009".

- Tony


On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 10:06 PM, Tobias Kammersgaard <
tobias.kammersga...@gmail.com> wrote:

> The biggest problem with using the ASW code is really the lack of Half-Life
> 2 content. The singleplayer mod I'm working on would love to have features
> from the ASW code base, however lack of HL2 stops us from going there.
> Granted we should replace all the HL2 content with out own, but I don't see
> that happening with a team of 5 people.
>
> However I will checkout your skeleton Tom :)!
>
> - ScarT
>
>
>
> On 30 July 2011 14:57, Tom Edwards  wrote:
>
>> Don't expect any more significant updates to 2007/9, if for no other
>> reason than the move from GCF to NCF. Alien Swarm is from the main codeline
>> and is much more recent than 2007/9 so is clearly the best choice for new
>> mods.
>>
>> Since you probably aren't making a top-down shooter here is an alpha for
>> the Alien Swarm Skeleton, which is a simple first-person game. Hopefully
>> having something public will encourage me to spend more time on its
>> remaining problems. :)
>>
>> http://steamreview.org/**external/vdc/srcsdk-skeleton-**2.0a1.zip
>>
>>
>> On 30/07/2011 12:24, Psy_Commando wrote:
>>
>>> Sorry, for the previous message, forgot to put a subject...
>>>
>>> Hi,this time I'm having a more complicated question. Me and my team were
>>> about to switch from Source 2007 to Alien Swarm Source, to make our mod
>>> free, and to have access to the menu and loading UI and the Alien Swarm
>>> assets. However, Source 2007 is now free, so that removed one of the big
>>> advantages of ASW. Beside ASW, has tons of references directly to member
>>> variables of other classes, which makes it very hard to make significant
>>> changes.
>>>
>>> What I'm wondering is, is this a good move in the long term ? I mean ASW,
>>> and the ASW SDK are pretty much left to die by its devs, and there are about
>>> two active mods... Unlike with ASW I can expect that there will be a Source
>>> 2009 update at some point with the Source SDK. Any suggestions or comments ?
>>>
>>>
>>> __**_
>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>>> please visit:
>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/**mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>>>
>>>
>> __**_
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>> please visit:
>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/**mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>>
>>
>
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> please visit:
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>
>
>


-- 
-Tony
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Re: [hlcoders] Should I switch ASW SDK or stay with Source 2007

[Tobias Kammersgaard]

The biggest problem with using the ASW code is really the lack of Half-Life
2 content. The singleplayer mod I'm working on would love to have features
from the ASW code base, however lack of HL2 stops us from going there.
Granted we should replace all the HL2 content with out own, but I don't see
that happening with a team of 5 people.

However I will checkout your skeleton Tom :)!

- ScarT


On 30 July 2011 14:57, Tom Edwards  wrote:

> Don't expect any more significant updates to 2007/9, if for no other reason
> than the move from GCF to NCF. Alien Swarm is from the main codeline and is
> much more recent than 2007/9 so is clearly the best choice for new mods.
>
> Since you probably aren't making a top-down shooter here is an alpha for
> the Alien Swarm Skeleton, which is a simple first-person game. Hopefully
> having something public will encourage me to spend more time on its
> remaining problems. :)
>
> http://steamreview.org/**external/vdc/srcsdk-skeleton-**2.0a1.zip
>
>
> On 30/07/2011 12:24, Psy_Commando wrote:
>
>> Sorry, for the previous message, forgot to put a subject...
>>
>> Hi,this time I'm having a more complicated question. Me and my team were
>> about to switch from Source 2007 to Alien Swarm Source, to make our mod
>> free, and to have access to the menu and loading UI and the Alien Swarm
>> assets. However, Source 2007 is now free, so that removed one of the big
>> advantages of ASW. Beside ASW, has tons of references directly to member
>> variables of other classes, which makes it very hard to make significant
>> changes.
>>
>> What I'm wondering is, is this a good move in the long term ? I mean ASW,
>> and the ASW SDK are pretty much left to die by its devs, and there are about
>> two active mods... Unlike with ASW I can expect that there will be a Source
>> 2009 update at some point with the Source SDK. Any suggestions or comments ?
>>
>>
>> __**_
>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>> please visit:
>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/**mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>>
>>
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> please visit:
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Re: [hlcoders] Should I switch ASW SDK or stay with Source 2007

[Tom Edwards]

Don't expect any more significant updates to 2007/9, if for no other 
reason than the move from GCF to NCF. Alien Swarm is from the main 
codeline and is much more recent than 2007/9 so is clearly the best 
choice for new mods.


Since you probably aren't making a top-down shooter here is an alpha for 
the Alien Swarm Skeleton, which is a simple first-person game. Hopefully 
having something public will encourage me to spend more time on its 
remaining problems. :)


http://steamreview.org/external/vdc/srcsdk-skeleton-2.0a1.zip

On 30/07/2011 12:24, Psy_Commando wrote:

Sorry, for the previous message, forgot to put a subject...

Hi,this time I'm having a more complicated question. Me and my team 
were about to switch from Source 2007 to Alien Swarm Source, to make 
our mod free, and to have access to the menu and loading UI and the 
Alien Swarm assets. However, Source 2007 is now free, so that removed 
one of the big advantages of ASW. Beside ASW, has tons of references 
directly to member variables of other classes, which makes it very 
hard to make significant changes.


What I'm wondering is, is this a good move in the long term ? I mean 
ASW, and the ASW SDK are pretty much left to die by its devs, and 
there are about two active mods... Unlike with ASW I can expect that 
there will be a Source 2009 update at some point with the Source SDK. 
Any suggestions or comments ?



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Re: [hlcoders] Should I switch ASW SDK or stay with Source 2007

[Tobias Kammersgaard]

Source 2007 is limited and horrible compared to 2009 (specifically the
particle editor).

I'm used to getting fucked over as a modder of Source so its no big deal
really. We all know that Source modding is pretty much dead.

- ScarT


On 30 July 2011 01:39, Stephen Swires  wrote:

> I emailed Mike Dunkle (and some others, but he replied) just before Portal
> 2 came out asking if the current Source SDK would be updated to either the
> Portal 2 engine or Source 2009. He told me there were no plans to do so as
> the Source 2009 version was too similar to 2007 even though this isn't
> really true. Though this may have changed since May/April.
>
> I would advise emailing staff members from Valve directly as you're more
> likely to get a reply out of someone since I doubt there's any staff members
> at Valve that still check this mailing list.
>
> On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 12:24 AM, Psy_Commando wrote:
>
>> Sorry, for the previous message, forgot to put a subject...
>>
>> Hi,this time I'm having a more complicated question. Me and my team were
>> about to switch from Source 2007 to Alien Swarm Source, to make our mod
>> free, and to have access to the menu and loading UI and the Alien Swarm
>> assets. However, Source 2007 is now free, so that removed one of the big
>> advantages of ASW. Beside ASW, has tons of references directly to member
>> variables of other classes, which makes it very hard to make significant
>> changes.
>>
>> What I'm wondering is, is this a good move in the long term ? I mean ASW,
>> and the ASW SDK are pretty much left to die by its devs, and there are about
>> two active mods... Unlike with ASW I can expect that there will be a Source
>> 2009 update at some point with the Source SDK. Any suggestions or comments ?
>>
>> ___
>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>> please visit:
>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> - Stephen Swires
>
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> please visit:
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>
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Re: [hlcoders] Should I switch ASW SDK or stay with Source 2007

[Stephen Swires]

I emailed Mike Dunkle (and some others, but he replied) just before Portal 2
came out asking if the current Source SDK would be updated to either the
Portal 2 engine or Source 2009. He told me there were no plans to do so as
the Source 2009 version was too similar to 2007 even though this isn't
really true. Though this may have changed since May/April.

I would advise emailing staff members from Valve directly as you're more
likely to get a reply out of someone since I doubt there's any staff members
at Valve that still check this mailing list.

On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 12:24 AM, Psy_Commando wrote:

> Sorry, for the previous message, forgot to put a subject...
>
> Hi,this time I'm having a more complicated question. Me and my team were
> about to switch from Source 2007 to Alien Swarm Source, to make our mod
> free, and to have access to the menu and loading UI and the Alien Swarm
> assets. However, Source 2007 is now free, so that removed one of the big
> advantages of ASW. Beside ASW, has tons of references directly to member
> variables of other classes, which makes it very hard to make significant
> changes.
>
> What I'm wondering is, is this a good move in the long term ? I mean ASW,
> and the ASW SDK are pretty much left to die by its devs, and there are about
> two active mods... Unlike with ASW I can expect that there will be a Source
> 2009 update at some point with the Source SDK. Any suggestions or comments ?
>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>
>
>


-- 
- Stephen Swires
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[hlcoders] Should I switch ASW SDK or stay with Source 2007

[Psy_Commando]

Sorry, for the previous message, forgot to put a subject...

Hi,this time I'm having a more complicated question. Me and my team were
about to switch from Source 2007 to Alien Swarm Source, to make our mod
free, and to have access to the menu and loading UI and the Alien Swarm
assets. However, Source 2007 is now free, so that removed one of the big
advantages of ASW. Beside ASW, has tons of references directly to member
variables of other classes, which makes it very hard to make significant
changes.

What I'm wondering is, is this a good move in the long term ? I mean ASW,
and the ASW SDK are pretty much left to die by its devs, and there are about
two active mods... Unlike with ASW I can expect that there will be a Source
2009 update at some point with the Source SDK. Any suggestions or comments ?
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