Re: And the survey says...

[Chris Hoelscher]

You are saying it's .. fontastic?

Chris Hoelscher
Lead Sys DBA 
IBM Global Technical Services on assignmemt to Humana Inc.
T 502.476.2538  or 502.407.7266

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Michael Knigge
Sent: Monday, May 3, 2021 2:28 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [IBM-MAIN] AW: And the survey says...

[External Email: Use caution with links and attachments]


Vista comes with it's own font (of course you can use another font) I can't 
tell you why (I can't argue that), but I tried several fonts and nothing felt 
right

Sometimes font A feels right for purpose XYZ but feels wrong for another 
purpose... i. e. I would never use the Vista tn3270 font with my Eclipse or 
Notepad++  But with 3270 if feels well "just right"... As said.. I 
can't argue that



Bye,
Michael



Mit freundlichen Grüßen

Michael Knigge



SET GmbH
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Telefon: +49 511 330 998 23
Fax: +49 511 330 998 65
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freundlichen Grüßen

Michael Knigge



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30163 Hannover

Telefon: +49 511 330 998 23
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Nachricht-
Von: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  Im Auftrag von 
Bob Bridges
Gesendet: Freitag, 30. April 2021 18:29
An: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Betreff: Re: And the survey says...

Font?!  Emulators usually let you select among a variety of fonts.  (I always 
use Consolas these days, because it's fixed-spacing ~and~ slashes the zeroes.)  
Does Vista offer something unique?

---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313

/* Although small children have taboos against stepping on ants because such 
actions are said to bring on rain, there has never seemed to be a taboo against 
pulling off the legs or wings of flies.  Most children eventually outgrow this 
behavior.  Those who do not either come to a bad end or become biologists.  
-Vincent Dethier, _To Know a Fly_ */

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Michael Knigge
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2021 07:12

I've worked with PCOM, RUMBA, Nexus and Vista tn3270 And I felt in love 
with Vista tn3270.. Why?! You might roll your eyes, but it's the font. The 
first time I've installed Vista tn3270 I looked at it and no other 3270 
Emulator I've used so far provided a such great looking and great readable font.

I loved it so much - I've "extracted" the font and use it also with my SPF/SE 
editor Still love it since over 10 years (I guess)

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AW: And the survey says...

[Michael Knigge]

Vista comes with it's own font (of course you can use another font) I 
can't tell you why (I can't argue that), but I tried several fonts and nothing 
felt right 

Sometimes font A feels right for purpose XYZ but feels wrong for another 
purpose... i. e. I would never use the Vista tn3270 font with my Eclipse or 
Notepad++  But with 3270 if feels well "just right"... As said.. I 
can't argue that



Bye,
Michael



Mit freundlichen Grüßen

Michael Knigge



SET GmbH
Rühmkorffstraße 5
30163 Hannover

Telefon: +49 511 330 998 23
Fax: +49 511 330 998 65
michael.kni...@set.de
www.set.de

Handelsregister: Amtsgericht Hannover HRB 52778
​Geschäftsführer: Dr.-Ing. Tobias Baum, Arthur Brack, Hendrik Leder 
Mit freundlichen Grüßen

Michael Knigge



SET GmbH
Rühmkorffstraße 5
30163 Hannover

Telefon: +49 511 330 998 23
Fax: +49 511 330 998 65
michael.kni...@set.de
www.set.de

Handelsregister: Amtsgericht Hannover HRB 52778
​Geschäftsführer: Tobias Baum, Arthur Brack, Hendrik Leder -Ursprüngliche 
Nachricht-
Von: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  Im Auftrag von 
Bob Bridges
Gesendet: Freitag, 30. April 2021 18:29
An: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Betreff: Re: And the survey says...

Font?!  Emulators usually let you select among a variety of fonts.  (I always 
use Consolas these days, because it's fixed-spacing ~and~ slashes the zeroes.)  
Does Vista offer something unique?

---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313

/* Although small children have taboos against stepping on ants because such 
actions are said to bring on rain, there has never seemed to be a taboo against 
pulling off the legs or wings of flies.  Most children eventually outgrow this 
behavior.  Those who do not either come to a bad end or become biologists.  
-Vincent Dethier, _To Know a Fly_ */

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Michael Knigge
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2021 07:12

I've worked with PCOM, RUMBA, Nexus and Vista tn3270 And I felt in love 
with Vista tn3270.. Why?! You might roll your eyes, but it's the font. The 
first time I've installed Vista tn3270 I looked at it and no other 3270 
Emulator I've used so far provided a such great looking and great readable font.

I loved it so much - I've "extracted" the font and use it also with my SPF/SE 
editor Still love it since over 10 years (I guess)

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AW: AW: And the survey says...

[Michael Knigge]

We've licenced Vista tn3270 and iirc I've asked Tom for permission So in 
our case that's all right



Bye,
Michael


Mit freundlichen Grüßen

Michael Knigge



SET GmbH
Rühmkorffstraße 5
30163 Hannover

Telefon: +49 511 330 998 23
Fax: +49 511 330 998 65
michael.kni...@set.de
www.set.de

Handelsregister: Amtsgericht Hannover HRB 52778
​Geschäftsführer: Dr.-Ing. Tobias Baum, Arthur Brack, Hendrik Leder 
Mit freundlichen Grüßen

Michael Knigge



SET GmbH
Rühmkorffstraße 5
30163 Hannover

Telefon: +49 511 330 998 23
Fax: +49 511 330 998 65
michael.kni...@set.de
www.set.de

Handelsregister: Amtsgericht Hannover HRB 52778
​Geschäftsführer: Tobias Baum, Arthur Brack, Hendrik Leder -Ursprüngliche 
Nachricht-
Von: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  Im Auftrag von 
Grant Taylor
Gesendet: Freitag, 30. April 2021 18:48
An: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Betreff: Re: AW: And the survey says...

On 4/30/21 5:11 AM, Michael Knigge wrote:
> I've worked with PCOM, RUMBA, Nexus and Vista tn3270 And I felt in 
> love with Vista tn3270.. Why?! You might roll your eyes, but it's the 
> font.

No, I don't roll my eyes at that.

I /was/ going to say that's one of the /little/ creature features that make a 
worthwhile difference.  Except I changed my mind part way through typing 
creature as I realized that the font is one of the things that we will spend 
hours a day actually interacting with.  Many of the other creature features; 
script ability, screen dump, etc, all impact our day-to-day, hour-to-hour, 
minute-to-minute /use/ of something much less than a font.  Or said another 
way, the font is something that our brain will be processing and translating 
from a visual representation to something we cognitively understand.  So if 
there is something that can be done to make it easier for our brain to do when 
it does that hundreds if not thousands of times a day, that's a big win to me.

The Microsoft commercial where one IT guy stops another IT guy who is wondering 
around with dumbfounded look on his face looking at a nickle, and asks what's 
wrong comes to mind.  Then the 2nd IT guy tells the 1st IT guy that they are 
saving a nickle /per/ /transaction/ and hands the nickle to the 1st IT guy and 
walks off.  Then the 1st IT guy starts wondering around with an equally 
dumbfounded look on his face while making a comment "we process hundreds of 
thousands of transactions a day".

I say this because even the smallest change; cost reduction, simplification, 
efficiency gain, in something that happens a LOT ends up having a profound 
impact.  If that happens to be using a font that is easier for our brains to 
process, then by all means, so be it.

> I loved it so much - I've "extracted" the font and use it also with my 
> SPF/SE editor Still love it since over 10 years (I guess)

Nice.

I wonder if the font is available somewhere legally / with license elsewhere 
/or/ if it's /exclusive/ to the Vista tn3270.  If it's not available 
independent of Vista tn3270, then you may need a license of Vista tn3270 to 
legally use the font in a different terminal emulator or program on the system.

So, now I wonder if there is a different terminal emulator that does something 
else better than Vista tn3270 that could use the font from Vista tn3270 and 
make a superior hybrid solution.

Aside:  I know of Vista tn3270, but I have no idea how it's licensed.



--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

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Re: And the survey says...

[Seymour J Metz]

I have grander ambitions. Direct TSO support for TN3270 over SCTP with an SFTP 
over SCTP client and appropriate encryption.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Paul Gilmartin [000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Sunday, May 2, 2021 12:54 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: And the survey says...

On Sun, 2 May 2021 08:18:38 -0700, Tom Brennan wrote:

>On 5/2/2021 4:15 AM, Radoslaw Skorupka wrote:
>
>> ... IMHO there is no reason to embed FTP client in 3270 emulation package.
>
>I guess it was natural for users to look for FTP on the terminal
>emulator since that's where they did transfers before TCPIP on the
>
I would expect that "before TCPIP on the mainframe" it would *not* be
"natural for users to look for FTP on the terminal".

>mainframe.  But I always thought that was strange.  Even stranger was
>one emulator I used back around 1996 that would lock up the 3270
>terminal while running FTP transfers, to better simulate IND$FILE I assume.
>
Stranger yet was Mac tn3270 X (abandonware, STTL), with a built-in
FTP *server*, presumably to accommodate sites with misgivings about
running an FTP server but OK with FTP client.

I had a major cognitive disconnect when a colleague first told me
that to use FTP on the desktop I needed "to be logged on to TSO!"
Only in later releases was the default setting to launch tn3270 with
internal FTP server disabled

Is there a possibility of a separate IND$FILE client with all the
bells and whistles?  It would need:
o Understanding of 3270/7171/IND$FILE data streams.
o But not ability to format a display.
???

-- gil

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Re: And the survey says...

[Seymour J Metz]

I remember zmodem over telnet. As with IND$FILE, it was all the same session.

BTW, while with TCAM you could attach ASCII tty and other s/s terminals via WP 
mode, with VTAM you needed NTO or some other protocol converter.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Paul Gilmartin [000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Sunday, May 2, 2021 6:24 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: And the survey says...

On Sun, 2 May 2021 12:03:00 -0700, Charles Mills wrote:
>
>How would such a separate IND$FILE client work? Would it somehow share the TSO 
>session with the emulator? Or would it somehow log onto TSO on its own, 
>despite its lack of "ability to format a display"?
>
I was imagining the latter, recalling days of yore when I could connect
to TSO or CMS with a serial (VT52-like) terminal.  I don't know what
would have happened if I typed CALL IND$FILE.

Remember XMODEM, YMODEM, KERMIT, ...  Hayes Kermit spoofing ...?
Maybe Kermit is the IND$FILE client.  Rocket discusses both IND$FILE
and Kermit (Last-Modified: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 17:00:42 GMT):
<https://www3.rocketsoftware.com/bluezone/help/v42/en/bz/whgdata/whlstt67.htm#67>

I recall each terminal type had a dedicated range of ports on the 3705(?);
nothing like a TERMINFO data base.

I once tried disabling software ASCII<->EBCDIC translation and was astonished
that the bits came in backwards.

-- gil

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Re: And the survey says...

[Tom Brennan]

Like using standard ASCII telnet to a mainframe for what I always called 
line-mode TSO?  I think that still works today, although I've never used 
it except by accident.


On 5/2/2021 3:24 PM, Paul Gilmartin wrote:


I was imagining the latter, recalling days of yore when I could connect
to TSO or CMS with a serial (VT52-like) terminal. 


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Re: And the survey says...

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Sun, 2 May 2021 12:03:00 -0700, Charles Mills wrote:
>
>How would such a separate IND$FILE client work? Would it somehow share the TSO 
>session with the emulator? Or would it somehow log onto TSO on its own, 
>despite its lack of "ability to format a display"?
> 
I was imagining the latter, recalling days of yore when I could connect
to TSO or CMS with a serial (VT52-like) terminal.  I don't know what
would have happened if I typed CALL IND$FILE.

Remember XMODEM, YMODEM, KERMIT, ...  Hayes Kermit spoofing ...?
Maybe Kermit is the IND$FILE client.  Rocket discusses both IND$FILE
and Kermit (Last-Modified: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 17:00:42 GMT):


I recall each terminal type had a dedicated range of ports on the 3705(?);
nothing like a TERMINFO data base.

I once tried disabling software ASCII<->EBCDIC translation and was astonished
that the bits came in backwards.

-- gil

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Re: And the survey says...

[Don Leahy]

They could model it on WSA.   :-)

On Sun, May 2, 2021 at 3:03 PM Charles Mills  wrote:

> > Is there a possibility of a separate IND$FILE client with all the
>
> In the late 1980's/very early 1990's Spectrum Concepts (XCOM 6.2) had a
> product called IND$VTAM which was an IND$FILE that ran outside of TSO, on
> its own SNA session. I have forgotten the exact details, but I remember its
> existence well because we (my company) were negotiating to buy it (buy the
> whole product, not license a copy). The negotiations did not succeed.
> Spectrum was a very difficult company to deal with, as anyone who might
> remember the fallout from the sale of XCOM to Legent will recall.
>
> I guess in @Gil's terminology that would be "a separate IND$FILE server."
>
> How would such a separate IND$FILE client work? Would it somehow share the
> TSO session with the emulator? Or would it somehow log onto TSO on its own,
> despite its lack of "ability to format a display"?
>
> Charles
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin
> Sent: Sunday, May 2, 2021 9:55 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: And the survey says...
>
> On Sun, 2 May 2021 08:18:38 -0700, Tom Brennan wrote:
>
> >On 5/2/2021 4:15 AM, Radoslaw Skorupka wrote:
> >
> >> ... IMHO there is no reason to embed FTP client in 3270 emulation
> package.
> >
> >I guess it was natural for users to look for FTP on the terminal
> >emulator since that's where they did transfers before TCPIP on the
> >
> I would expect that "before TCPIP on the mainframe" it would *not* be
> "natural for users to look for FTP on the terminal".
>
> >mainframe.  But I always thought that was strange.  Even stranger was
> >one emulator I used back around 1996 that would lock up the 3270
> >terminal while running FTP transfers, to better simulate IND$FILE I
> assume.
> >
> Stranger yet was Mac tn3270 X (abandonware, STTL), with a built-in
> FTP *server*, presumably to accommodate sites with misgivings about
> running an FTP server but OK with FTP client.
>
> I had a major cognitive disconnect when a colleague first told me
> that to use FTP on the desktop I needed "to be logged on to TSO!"
> Only in later releases was the default setting to launch tn3270 with
> internal FTP server disabled
>
> Is there a possibility of a separate IND$FILE client with all the
> bells and whistles?  It would need:
> o Understanding of 3270/7171/IND$FILE data streams.
> o But not ability to format a display.
> ???
>
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>

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Re: And the survey says...

[Charles Mills]

> Is there a possibility of a separate IND$FILE client with all the

In the late 1980's/very early 1990's Spectrum Concepts (XCOM 6.2) had a product 
called IND$VTAM which was an IND$FILE that ran outside of TSO, on its own SNA 
session. I have forgotten the exact details, but I remember its existence well 
because we (my company) were negotiating to buy it (buy the whole product, not 
license a copy). The negotiations did not succeed. Spectrum was a very 
difficult company to deal with, as anyone who might remember the fallout from 
the sale of XCOM to Legent will recall.

I guess in @Gil's terminology that would be "a separate IND$FILE server."

How would such a separate IND$FILE client work? Would it somehow share the TSO 
session with the emulator? Or would it somehow log onto TSO on its own, despite 
its lack of "ability to format a display"?

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Sunday, May 2, 2021 9:55 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: And the survey says...

On Sun, 2 May 2021 08:18:38 -0700, Tom Brennan wrote:

>On 5/2/2021 4:15 AM, Radoslaw Skorupka wrote:
>
>> ... IMHO there is no reason to embed FTP client in 3270 emulation package.
>
>I guess it was natural for users to look for FTP on the terminal
>emulator since that's where they did transfers before TCPIP on the
>
I would expect that "before TCPIP on the mainframe" it would *not* be
"natural for users to look for FTP on the terminal".

>mainframe.  But I always thought that was strange.  Even stranger was
>one emulator I used back around 1996 that would lock up the 3270
>terminal while running FTP transfers, to better simulate IND$FILE I assume.
>
Stranger yet was Mac tn3270 X (abandonware, STTL), with a built-in
FTP *server*, presumably to accommodate sites with misgivings about
running an FTP server but OK with FTP client.

I had a major cognitive disconnect when a colleague first told me
that to use FTP on the desktop I needed "to be logged on to TSO!"
Only in later releases was the default setting to launch tn3270 with
internal FTP server disabled

Is there a possibility of a separate IND$FILE client with all the
bells and whistles?  It would need:
o Understanding of 3270/7171/IND$FILE data streams.
o But not ability to format a display.
???

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Re: And the survey says...

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Sun, 2 May 2021 08:18:38 -0700, Tom Brennan wrote:

>On 5/2/2021 4:15 AM, Radoslaw Skorupka wrote:
>
>> ... IMHO there is no reason to embed FTP client in 3270 emulation package.
>
>I guess it was natural for users to look for FTP on the terminal
>emulator since that's where they did transfers before TCPIP on the
>
I would expect that "before TCPIP on the mainframe" it would *not* be
"natural for users to look for FTP on the terminal".

>mainframe.  But I always thought that was strange.  Even stranger was
>one emulator I used back around 1996 that would lock up the 3270
>terminal while running FTP transfers, to better simulate IND$FILE I assume.
>
Stranger yet was Mac tn3270 X (abandonware, STTL), with a built-in
FTP *server*, presumably to accommodate sites with misgivings about
running an FTP server but OK with FTP client.

I had a major cognitive disconnect when a colleague first told me
that to use FTP on the desktop I needed "to be logged on to TSO!"
Only in later releases was the default setting to launch tn3270 with
internal FTP server disabled

Is there a possibility of a separate IND$FILE client with all the
bells and whistles?  It would need:
o Understanding of 3270/7171/IND$FILE data streams.
o But not ability to format a display.
???

-- gil

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Re: And the survey says...

[Radoslaw Skorupka]

W dniu 02.05.2021 o 17:18, Tom Brennan pisze:

On 5/2/2021 4:15 AM, Radoslaw Skorupka wrote:

... IMHO there is no reason to embed FTP client in 3270 emulation 
package.


I guess it was natural for users to look for FTP on the terminal 
emulator since that's where they did transfers before TCPIP on the 
mainframe.  But I always thought that was strange.  Even stranger was 
one emulator I used back around 1996 that would lock up the 3270 
terminal while running FTP transfers, to better simulate IND$FILE I 
assume.


Really strange.
I knew only one application which locked 3270 session - it was old 
OSA/SF. However the lock was fully justified - OSA/SF (pre-java) was 
able to connect to z/OS using variety of methods, including regular 
session over "whatever way you chose".


BTW: It was quite reasonable to use non-TCP/IP connectivity for 
application used to define part of the connectivity.
Of course nowadays OSA/SF client was obsoleted by java based OSA/SF, 
which in turn was obsoleted by HMC OSA/SF, which in turn is less and 
less used because it is needed for OSE chpids only, which are less and 
less usable because: a) native SNA is widely being replaced with EE, b) 
TCP/IP on OSE is not reasonable and has announced end of life.


--
Radoslaw Skorupka
(looking for new job)
Lodz, Poland

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Re: And the survey says...

[Tom Brennan]

On 5/2/2021 4:15 AM, Radoslaw Skorupka wrote:


... IMHO there is no reason to embed FTP client in 3270 emulation package.


I guess it was natural for users to look for FTP on the terminal 
emulator since that's where they did transfers before TCPIP on the 
mainframe.  But I always thought that was strange.  Even stranger was 
one emulator I used back around 1996 that would lock up the 3270 
terminal while running FTP transfers, to better simulate IND$FILE I assume.


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Re: And the survey says...

[Colin Paice]

Some sites do not allow FTP, but do allow transfer through the 3270
emulator.

On Sun, 2 May 2021 at 12:15, Radoslaw Skorupka 
wrote:

> My responses below
>
> W dniu 01.05.2021 o 23:31, Bob Bridges pisze:
> > Pan Skorupka, I'm not sure whether I'm about to agree or disagree about
> FTP.  I use FTP as much as possible for file transfer, but I don't
> understand why a terminal emulator needs it built in:  What's wrong with
> just using Windows FTP and MVS FTP?  Which is maybe what you're saying.
>
> That's exactly what I said. FTP is fine, FTP is needed, I use FTP, but
> IMHO there is no reason to embed FTP client in 3270 emulation package.
>
>
> > One reason I like FTP so much is that IND$FILE can be so clunky if you
> have more than one or two files to transfer.  Most emulators provide a way
> to set up multiple transfers, but only manually - that is, I have to add
> each file to the collection, one at a time.  How is that better than doing
> the file transfer one at a time.  Unless I'm going to be doing the same
> transfers many times, of course, but that's never the case, for me.  What I
> really want is to set up a list of 40 or 50 filenames, and provide that
> list to the utility.  I can do that with native FTP.  I've done it for
> IND$FILE, too, but only by manually creating a multiple-file transfer
> containing three or four filenames, then analyzing the instructions it
> saved and writing a program that reproduced that proprietary format for my
> 40 or 50.  It's worth the trouble only when I'm starting out at a new
> client that doesn't support the mainframe FTP server, and I need to load my
> REXX tools.
> >
> > So when you write "scriptable IND$FILE", my ears perk up.  Someone tell
> me more, please.
>
> Scripting is unclear, I think I should rather say file list.
> I mean just list of dataset/files to sent.
> Example:
> D:\datasets\BE08.R0.CNTL.xmi xmit~x0
> D:\datasets\BE08.R1.PS1.xmi user2~x1.OLD
> D:\datasets\PS2.txt txt~x2
> C:\some\directory\BE05.R3.bin BIN2~x3
> D:\datasets\BE08.R4.PS4.xmi xmit~x4
> D:\datasets\BE08.R5.PS5.xmi xmit~x5
>
> Three positional parameters:
> 1. File name (PC side) - i.e. "BE08.R0.CNTL.xmi" in D:\datasets directory
> 2. Transfer/translation method - "xmit" is just a name. Inside there are
> parameters like ASCII-EBCDIC translation, LRECL, RECFM, optionally
> SPACE, etc.
> 3. x0, x1.OLD, x2... - dataset names, TSO prefixing apply
>
> As I said I don't know all possible emulators. I know PCOMM allows use
> of such lists, while wc3270 and Nexus do not have such feature. And of
> course when you have to transfer few dozens of files to the host it is
> really easy to create such list, even when some of the files need
> different parameters.
> Of course for gigabyte transfers FTP is still better.
>
>
>
>
> BTW: "Pan Skorupka" made me smile :-)
> Polish is complex here, we use declension, so it would be "panie
> Skorupka". Declension (declination?) is a nightmare for English speakers
> and lack of declension in English is a problem of Polish speakers.
> Nevermind.
>
> Regards
> --
> Radoslaw Skorupka
> (looking for new job)
> Lodz, Poland
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>

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Re: And the survey says...

[Radoslaw Skorupka]

My responses below

W dniu 01.05.2021 o 23:31, Bob Bridges pisze:

Pan Skorupka, I'm not sure whether I'm about to agree or disagree about FTP.  I 
use FTP as much as possible for file transfer, but I don't understand why a 
terminal emulator needs it built in:  What's wrong with just using Windows FTP 
and MVS FTP?  Which is maybe what you're saying.


That's exactly what I said. FTP is fine, FTP is needed, I use FTP, but 
IMHO there is no reason to embed FTP client in 3270 emulation package.




One reason I like FTP so much is that IND$FILE can be so clunky if you have 
more than one or two files to transfer.  Most emulators provide a way to set up 
multiple transfers, but only manually - that is, I have to add each file to the 
collection, one at a time.  How is that better than doing the file transfer one 
at a time.  Unless I'm going to be doing the same transfers many times, of 
course, but that's never the case, for me.  What I really want is to set up a 
list of 40 or 50 filenames, and provide that list to the utility.  I can do 
that with native FTP.  I've done it for IND$FILE, too, but only by manually 
creating a multiple-file transfer containing three or four filenames, then 
analyzing the instructions it saved and writing a program that reproduced that 
proprietary format for my 40 or 50.  It's worth the trouble only when I'm 
starting out at a new client that doesn't support the mainframe FTP server, and 
I need to load my REXX tools.

So when you write "scriptable IND$FILE", my ears perk up.  Someone tell me 
more, please.


Scripting is unclear, I think I should rather say file list.
I mean just list of dataset/files to sent.
Example:
D:\datasets\BE08.R0.CNTL.xmi xmit~x0
D:\datasets\BE08.R1.PS1.xmi user2~x1.OLD
D:\datasets\PS2.txt txt~x2
C:\some\directory\BE05.R3.bin BIN2~x3
D:\datasets\BE08.R4.PS4.xmi xmit~x4
D:\datasets\BE08.R5.PS5.xmi xmit~x5

Three positional parameters:
1. File name (PC side) - i.e. "BE08.R0.CNTL.xmi" in D:\datasets directory
2. Transfer/translation method - "xmit" is just a name. Inside there are 
parameters like ASCII-EBCDIC translation, LRECL, RECFM, optionally 
SPACE, etc.

3. x0, x1.OLD, x2... - dataset names, TSO prefixing apply

As I said I don't know all possible emulators. I know PCOMM allows use 
of such lists, while wc3270 and Nexus do not have such feature. And of 
course when you have to transfer few dozens of files to the host it is 
really easy to create such list, even when some of the files need 
different parameters.

Of course for gigabyte transfers FTP is still better.




BTW: "Pan Skorupka" made me smile :-)
Polish is complex here, we use declension, so it would be "panie 
Skorupka". Declension (declination?) is a nightmare for English speakers 
and lack of declension in English is a problem of Polish speakers. 
Nevermind.


Regards
--
Radoslaw Skorupka
(looking for new job)
Lodz, Poland

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Re: And the survey says...

[Mike Hochee]

Excellent, Thank you Tom! 

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Tom Brennan
Sent: Saturday, May 1, 2021 8:12 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: And the survey says...

Caution! This message was sent from outside your organization.

Click the Options/Options menu and the Misc tab, and there's an option there in 
the File Transfer Settings named Blocksize.  I probably need to rename it 
because it isn't BLKSIZE, it's the I/O buffer size between mainframe and client.

That defaults to 2500 which is leftover from 1998.  I've found if I set that 
to, say 25000, my transfers run about 10 times faster (well, I never really 
measured, but it really helps).  So check for that and bump up the number (a 
lot) if it's 2500 or so.

On 5/1/2021 4:27 PM, Mike Hochee wrote:
> I think there is a lot to like about Vista TN3270, price per seat being just 
> one of many.
>
> However I do rely on IND$FILE quite regularly and found it to be rather 
> sluggish using OOTB defaults. Hopefully there exists a buffer size adjustment 
> or some other setting which improves throughput in this area.
>
> Tom if your still following this conversation, would appreciate any IND$FILE 
> speed-up suggestions either to this list or privately.
>
> Thanks much,
> Mike
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] 
> On Behalf Of Bob Bridges
> Sent: Saturday, May 1, 2021 5:31 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: And the survey says...
>
> Caution! This message was sent from outside your organization.
>
> Pan Skorupka, I'm not sure whether I'm about to agree or disagree about FTP.  
> I use FTP as much as possible for file transfer, but I don't understand why a 
> terminal emulator needs it built in:  What's wrong with just using Windows 
> FTP and MVS FTP?  Which is maybe what you're saying.
>
> One reason I like FTP so much is that IND$FILE can be so clunky if you have 
> more than one or two files to transfer.  Most emulators provide a way to set 
> up multiple transfers, but only manually - that is, I have to add each file 
> to the collection, one at a time.  How is that better than doing the file 
> transfer one at a time.  Unless I'm going to be doing the same transfers many 
> times, of course, but that's never the case, for me.  What I really want is 
> to set up a list of 40 or 50 filenames, and provide that list to the utility. 
>  I can do that with native FTP.  I've done it for IND$FILE, too, but only by 
> manually creating a multiple-file transfer containing three or four 
> filenames, then analyzing the instructions it saved and writing a program 
> that reproduced that proprietary format for my 40 or 50.  It's worth the 
> trouble only when I'm starting out at a new client that doesn't support the 
> mainframe FTP server, and I need to load my REXX tools.
>
> So when you write "scriptable IND$FILE", my ears perk up.  Someone tell me 
> more, please.
>
> ---
> Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313
>
> /* If...you are ever tempted to think that we modern Western Europeans 
> cannot really be so very bad because we are, comparatively speaking, 
> humane -- if, in other words, you think God might be content with us 
> on that ground -- ask yourself whether you think God ought to have 
> been content with the cruelty of cruel ages because they excelled in 
> courage or chastity.  You will see at once that this is an 
> impossibility.  -C S Lewis, _The Problem of Pain_ */
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On 
> Behalf Of Radoslaw Skorupka
> Sent: Saturday, May 1, 2021 08:08
>
> I don't care about ftp client. In fact I have never used a client delivered 
> with PCOMM or Nexus. Reasons? a) ftp CLI is enough for me, b) there are 
> plenty of ftp clients, some of them quite sophisticated like Filezilla.
>
> However I much appreciate PCOMM features related to IND$FILE. Not very clear 
> for newbies, awfully translated to Polish, but really useful and last but not 
> least: scriptable! There are simple SRL (text) scripts for mass unload/upload.
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send 
> email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
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> email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>

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Re: And the survey says...

[Tom Brennan]

Click the Options/Options menu and the Misc tab, and there's an option 
there in the File Transfer Settings named Blocksize.  I probably need to 
rename it because it isn't BLKSIZE, it's the I/O buffer size between 
mainframe and client.


That defaults to 2500 which is leftover from 1998.  I've found if I set 
that to, say 25000, my transfers run about 10 times faster (well, I 
never really measured, but it really helps).  So check for that and bump 
up the number (a lot) if it's 2500 or so.


On 5/1/2021 4:27 PM, Mike Hochee wrote:

I think there is a lot to like about Vista TN3270, price per seat being just 
one of many.

However I do rely on IND$FILE quite regularly and found it to be rather 
sluggish using OOTB defaults. Hopefully there exists a buffer size adjustment 
or some other setting which improves throughput in this area.

Tom if your still following this conversation, would appreciate any IND$FILE 
speed-up suggestions either to this list or privately.

Thanks much,
Mike

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Bob Bridges
Sent: Saturday, May 1, 2021 5:31 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: And the survey says...

Caution! This message was sent from outside your organization.

Pan Skorupka, I'm not sure whether I'm about to agree or disagree about FTP.  I 
use FTP as much as possible for file transfer, but I don't understand why a 
terminal emulator needs it built in:  What's wrong with just using Windows FTP 
and MVS FTP?  Which is maybe what you're saying.

One reason I like FTP so much is that IND$FILE can be so clunky if you have 
more than one or two files to transfer.  Most emulators provide a way to set up 
multiple transfers, but only manually - that is, I have to add each file to the 
collection, one at a time.  How is that better than doing the file transfer one 
at a time.  Unless I'm going to be doing the same transfers many times, of 
course, but that's never the case, for me.  What I really want is to set up a 
list of 40 or 50 filenames, and provide that list to the utility.  I can do 
that with native FTP.  I've done it for IND$FILE, too, but only by manually 
creating a multiple-file transfer containing three or four filenames, then 
analyzing the instructions it saved and writing a program that reproduced that 
proprietary format for my 40 or 50.  It's worth the trouble only when I'm 
starting out at a new client that doesn't support the mainframe FTP server, and 
I need to load my REXX tools.

So when you write "scriptable IND$FILE", my ears perk up.  Someone tell me 
more, please.

---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313

/* If...you are ever tempted to think that we modern Western Europeans cannot 
really be so very bad because we are, comparatively speaking, humane -- if, in 
other words, you think God might be content with us on that ground -- ask 
yourself whether you think God ought to have been content with the cruelty of 
cruel ages because they excelled in courage or chastity.  You will see at once 
that this is an impossibility.  -C S Lewis, _The Problem of Pain_ */

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Radoslaw Skorupka
Sent: Saturday, May 1, 2021 08:08

I don't care about ftp client. In fact I have never used a client delivered 
with PCOMM or Nexus. Reasons? a) ftp CLI is enough for me, b) there are plenty 
of ftp clients, some of them quite sophisticated like Filezilla.

However I much appreciate PCOMM features related to IND$FILE. Not very clear 
for newbies, awfully translated to Polish, but really useful and last but not 
least: scriptable! There are simple SRL (text) scripts for mass unload/upload.

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Re: And the survey says...

[Mike Hochee]

I think there is a lot to like about Vista TN3270, price per seat being just 
one of many. 

However I do rely on IND$FILE quite regularly and found it to be rather 
sluggish using OOTB defaults. Hopefully there exists a buffer size adjustment 
or some other setting which improves throughput in this area.  

Tom if your still following this conversation, would appreciate any IND$FILE 
speed-up suggestions either to this list or privately. 

Thanks much, 
Mike 

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Bob Bridges
Sent: Saturday, May 1, 2021 5:31 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: And the survey says...

Caution! This message was sent from outside your organization.

Pan Skorupka, I'm not sure whether I'm about to agree or disagree about FTP.  I 
use FTP as much as possible for file transfer, but I don't understand why a 
terminal emulator needs it built in:  What's wrong with just using Windows FTP 
and MVS FTP?  Which is maybe what you're saying.

One reason I like FTP so much is that IND$FILE can be so clunky if you have 
more than one or two files to transfer.  Most emulators provide a way to set up 
multiple transfers, but only manually - that is, I have to add each file to the 
collection, one at a time.  How is that better than doing the file transfer one 
at a time.  Unless I'm going to be doing the same transfers many times, of 
course, but that's never the case, for me.  What I really want is to set up a 
list of 40 or 50 filenames, and provide that list to the utility.  I can do 
that with native FTP.  I've done it for IND$FILE, too, but only by manually 
creating a multiple-file transfer containing three or four filenames, then 
analyzing the instructions it saved and writing a program that reproduced that 
proprietary format for my 40 or 50.  It's worth the trouble only when I'm 
starting out at a new client that doesn't support the mainframe FTP server, and 
I need to load my REXX tools.

So when you write "scriptable IND$FILE", my ears perk up.  Someone tell me 
more, please.

---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313

/* If...you are ever tempted to think that we modern Western Europeans cannot 
really be so very bad because we are, comparatively speaking, humane -- if, in 
other words, you think God might be content with us on that ground -- ask 
yourself whether you think God ought to have been content with the cruelty of 
cruel ages because they excelled in courage or chastity.  You will see at once 
that this is an impossibility.  -C S Lewis, _The Problem of Pain_ */

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Radoslaw Skorupka
Sent: Saturday, May 1, 2021 08:08

I don't care about ftp client. In fact I have never used a client delivered 
with PCOMM or Nexus. Reasons? a) ftp CLI is enough for me, b) there are plenty 
of ftp clients, some of them quite sophisticated like Filezilla.

However I much appreciate PCOMM features related to IND$FILE. Not very clear 
for newbies, awfully translated to Polish, but really useful and last but not 
least: scriptable! There are simple SRL (text) scripts for mass unload/upload.

--
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Re: And the survey says...

[Bob Bridges]

Pan Skorupka, I'm not sure whether I'm about to agree or disagree about FTP.  I 
use FTP as much as possible for file transfer, but I don't understand why a 
terminal emulator needs it built in:  What's wrong with just using Windows FTP 
and MVS FTP?  Which is maybe what you're saying.

One reason I like FTP so much is that IND$FILE can be so clunky if you have 
more than one or two files to transfer.  Most emulators provide a way to set up 
multiple transfers, but only manually - that is, I have to add each file to the 
collection, one at a time.  How is that better than doing the file transfer one 
at a time.  Unless I'm going to be doing the same transfers many times, of 
course, but that's never the case, for me.  What I really want is to set up a 
list of 40 or 50 filenames, and provide that list to the utility.  I can do 
that with native FTP.  I've done it for IND$FILE, too, but only by manually 
creating a multiple-file transfer containing three or four filenames, then 
analyzing the instructions it saved and writing a program that reproduced that 
proprietary format for my 40 or 50.  It's worth the trouble only when I'm 
starting out at a new client that doesn't support the mainframe FTP server, and 
I need to load my REXX tools.

So when you write "scriptable IND$FILE", my ears perk up.  Someone tell me 
more, please.

---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313

/* If...you are ever tempted to think that we modern Western Europeans cannot 
really be so very bad because we are, comparatively speaking, humane -- if, in 
other words, you think God might be content with us on that ground -- ask 
yourself whether you think God ought to have been content with the cruelty of 
cruel ages because they excelled in courage or chastity.  You will see at once 
that this is an impossibility.  -C S Lewis, _The Problem of Pain_ */

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Radoslaw Skorupka
Sent: Saturday, May 1, 2021 08:08

I don't care about ftp client. In fact I have never used a client delivered 
with PCOMM or Nexus. Reasons? a) ftp CLI is enough for me, b) there are plenty 
of ftp clients, some of them quite sophisticated like Filezilla.

However I much appreciate PCOMM features related to IND$FILE. Not very clear 
for newbies, awfully translated to Polish, but really useful and last but not 
least: scriptable! There are simple SRL (text) scripts for mass unload/upload.

--
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Re: And the survey says...

[Bob Bridges]

I side with Radek on this.  Some of you were around a while ago when Bob Hansel 
posted his latest survey on the RACF-L forum and a newbie flamed him for 
blatant advertising on a technical forum.  The rest of us pretty much jumped 
down the poor guy's throat:  Mr Hansel has been a valuable contributor to that 
forum for as long as I can remember, and his monthly surveys are very popular.  
(Monthly?  Weekly?  I haven't been paying attention, obviously.)  Mr Brennan, 
feel free to shed further light as further light occurs to you.

---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313

/* One of the quickest ways I've found to look foolish is to state positively 
what God will not do.  -Bob Bridges */

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Radoslaw Skorupka
Sent: Saturday, May 1, 2021 08:08

(My humble opinion): Tom, you *should* participate in the discussion, I guess 
you are best informed person in Vista details. It is not advertisement, it is 
technical discussion, so your participation is perfectly justified and welcome. 
Please do.

--- W dniu 01.05.2021 o 02:53, Tom Brennan pisze:
> That's true about the features, I only implemented a subset of 
> possibilities, and mostly that's on purpose.  For example, there's no 
> FTP, minimal IND$FILE, no HLLAPI, no GDDM (although I did try once 
> with help from the 3270 stream master, Greg Price).  No SNA printing, 
> no 5250, and just enough standard telnet to hopefully get you through 
> a firewall.  No 3290 partitions.  No linear Copy, only block.
>
> Tabs (mentioned here), I would like to do, but because of the single 
> (giant) internal control block I used it's pretty difficult.  So I 
> keep saying I'll do that, "tomorrow".
>
> For fonts, I chose old style bitmapped (raster) fonts because at the 
> time with Win 3.1 and small screens True-Types were difficult to read. 
> So I spent many weeks each evening with my wife coming home from work 
> wondering why I'm clicking dots in a font editor. Anyone can have 
> those fonts if you want (just email me), but they are useless unless 
> the emulator has a bitmap font option - rare these days I would 
> think.  I do have a True-Type version that I offer to folks in cases 
> where the bitmap fonts are too limiting.
>
> Sorry to steal your post Skip :)  I'm trying to avoid replying here 
> because I don't want it to look like a promotion.

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Re: And the survey says...

[Radoslaw Skorupka]

(My humble opinion)
Tom,
You *should* participate in the discussion, I guess you are best 
informed person in Vista details.
It is not advertisement, it is technical discussion, so your 
participation is perfectly justified and welcome. Please do.


Regarding tech details: I don't care about ftp client. In fact I have 
never used a client delivered with PCOMM or Nexus. Reasons? a) ftp CLI 
is enough for me, b) there are plenty of ftp clients, some of them quite 
sophisticated like Filezilla.
However I much appreciate PCOMM features related to IND$FILE. Not very 
clear for newbies, awfully translated to Polish, but really useful and 
last but not least: scriptable! There are simple SRL (text) scripts for 
mass unload/upload.

Recently we discussed options when ftp is not allowed. This is the option.
(disclaimer: I did not use Vista for many years, so I rely on Tom's 
opinion "minimal IND$FILE")


--
Radoslaw Skorupka
(looking for new job)
Lodz, Poland



W dniu 01.05.2021 o 02:53, Tom Brennan pisze:
That's true about the features, I only implemented a subset of 
possibilities, and mostly that's on purpose.  For example, there's no 
FTP, minimal IND$FILE, no HLLAPI, no GDDM (although I did try once 
with help from the 3270 stream master, Greg Price).  No SNA printing, 
no 5250, and just enough standard telnet to hopefully get you through 
a firewall.  No 3290 partitions.  No linear Copy, only block.


Tabs (mentioned here), I would like to do, but because of the single 
(giant) internal control block I used it's pretty difficult.  So I 
keep saying I'll do that, "tomorrow".


For fonts, I chose old style bitmapped (raster) fonts because at the 
time with Win 3.1 and small screens True-Types were difficult to read. 
So I spent many weeks each evening with my wife coming home from work 
wondering why I'm clicking dots in a font editor. Anyone can have 
those fonts if you want (just email me), but they are useless unless 
the emulator has a bitmap font option - rare these days I would 
think.  I do have a True-Type version that I offer to folks in cases 
where the bitmap fonts are too limiting.


Sorry to steal your post Skip :)  I'm trying to avoid replying here 
because I don't want it to look like a promotion.


On 4/30/2021 4:48 PM, Jesse 1 Robinson wrote:
I can't promise that Vista has all the functions discussed in this 
thread, but in the years that I've used it, I've seen Tom add a lot 
of new variations. I suggest that curious cats spend a few minutes 
exploring the 'Paste Functions' enumerated under the Edit menu. 
Several of those were provided to handle unusual situations that are 
not strictly 'editing' but rather a means of transferring data 
displayed by one App into another possible unrelated App. These 
functions are possible because 'copy' takes some part of a delineated 
display, strips out all formatting indicators, and (re)builds a 
'paste' buffer according to the requirements of the function being 
invoked. If it doesn't work as desired, Tom is famous for 
implementing new function.


.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
robin...@sce.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On 
Behalf Of Seymour J Metz

Sent: Friday, April 30, 2021 4:15 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: And the survey says...

*** EXTERNAL EMAIL - Use caution when opening links or attachments ***

Linea meaning wrapping, i.e., copying consequtive buffer locations 
without regard to line boundaries. Both block and linear copies are 
useful, and it's nice to have both.



--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on 
behalf of Charles Mills [charl...@mcn.org]

Sent: Friday, April 30, 2021 6:50 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: And the survey says...

Here's an example of a block copy in Vista. What's a linear copy? You 
mean, without regard to line endings? No, I don't think so. You could 
certainly use your favorite stream-oriented editor to remove the line 
endings.


   Menu  Utilities  Compilers  O
---
    ISPF
Option ===>

0  Settings  Terminal and u
1  View  Display source
2  Edit  Create or chan
3  Utilities Perform utilit

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] 
On Behalf Of Seymour J Metz

Sent: Friday, April 30, 2021 3:34 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: And the survey says...

What about a linear copy?



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Re: And the survey says...

[Tom Brennan]

That's true about the features, I only implemented a subset of 
possibilities, and mostly that's on purpose.  For example, there's no 
FTP, minimal IND$FILE, no HLLAPI, no GDDM (although I did try once with 
help from the 3270 stream master, Greg Price).  No SNA printing, no 
5250, and just enough standard telnet to hopefully get you through a 
firewall.  No 3290 partitions.  No linear Copy, only block.


Tabs (mentioned here), I would like to do, but because of the single 
(giant) internal control block I used it's pretty difficult.  So I keep 
saying I'll do that, "tomorrow".


For fonts, I chose old style bitmapped (raster) fonts because at the 
time with Win 3.1 and small screens True-Types were difficult to read. 
So I spent many weeks each evening with my wife coming home from work 
wondering why I'm clicking dots in a font editor.  Anyone can have those 
fonts if you want (just email me), but they are useless unless the 
emulator has a bitmap font option - rare these days I would think.  I do 
have a True-Type version that I offer to folks in cases where the bitmap 
fonts are too limiting.


Sorry to steal your post Skip :)  I'm trying to avoid replying here 
because I don't want it to look like a promotion.


On 4/30/2021 4:48 PM, Jesse 1 Robinson wrote:

I can't promise that Vista has all the functions discussed in this thread, but 
in the years that I've used it, I've seen Tom add a lot of new variations. I 
suggest that curious cats spend a few minutes exploring the 'Paste Functions' 
enumerated under the Edit menu. Several of those were provided to handle 
unusual situations that are not strictly 'editing' but rather a means of 
transferring data displayed by one App into another possible unrelated App. 
These functions are possible because 'copy' takes some part of a delineated 
display, strips out all formatting indicators, and (re)builds a 'paste' buffer 
according to the requirements of the function being invoked. If it doesn't work 
as desired, Tom is famous for implementing new function.

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
robin...@sce.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Seymour J Metz
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2021 4:15 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: And the survey says...

*** EXTERNAL EMAIL - Use caution when opening links or attachments ***

Linea meaning wrapping, i.e., copying consequtive buffer locations without 
regard to line boundaries. Both block and linear copies are useful, and it's 
nice to have both.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Charles Mills [charl...@mcn.org]
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2021 6:50 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: And the survey says...

Here's an example of a block copy in Vista. What's a linear copy? You mean, 
without regard to line endings? No, I don't think so. You could certainly use 
your favorite stream-oriented editor to remove the line endings.

   Menu  Utilities  Compilers  O
---
ISPF
Option ===>

0  Settings  Terminal and u
1  View  Display source
2  Edit  Create or chan
3  Utilities Perform utilit

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Seymour J Metz
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2021 3:34 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: And the survey says...

What about a linear copy?


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Re: And the survey says...

[Jesse 1 Robinson]

I can't promise that Vista has all the functions discussed in this thread, but 
in the years that I've used it, I've seen Tom add a lot of new variations. I 
suggest that curious cats spend a few minutes exploring the 'Paste Functions' 
enumerated under the Edit menu. Several of those were provided to handle 
unusual situations that are not strictly 'editing' but rather a means of 
transferring data displayed by one App into another possible unrelated App. 
These functions are possible because 'copy' takes some part of a delineated 
display, strips out all formatting indicators, and (re)builds a 'paste' buffer 
according to the requirements of the function being invoked. If it doesn't work 
as desired, Tom is famous for implementing new function. 

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
robin...@sce.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Seymour J Metz
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2021 4:15 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: And the survey says...

*** EXTERNAL EMAIL - Use caution when opening links or attachments ***

Linea meaning wrapping, i.e., copying consequtive buffer locations without 
regard to line boundaries. Both block and linear copies are useful, and it's 
nice to have both.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Charles Mills [charl...@mcn.org]
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2021 6:50 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: And the survey says...

Here's an example of a block copy in Vista. What's a linear copy? You mean, 
without regard to line endings? No, I don't think so. You could certainly use 
your favorite stream-oriented editor to remove the line endings.

  Menu  Utilities  Compilers  O
---
   ISPF
Option ===>

0  Settings  Terminal and u
1  View  Display source
2  Edit  Create or chan
3  Utilities Perform utilit

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Seymour J Metz
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2021 3:34 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: And the survey says...

What about a linear copy?


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Re: And the survey says...

[Seymour J Metz]

Linea meaning wrapping, i.e., copying consequtive buffer locations without 
regard to line boundaries. Both block and linear copies are useful, and it's 
nice to have both.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Charles Mills [charl...@mcn.org]
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2021 6:50 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: And the survey says...

Here's an example of a block copy in Vista. What's a linear copy? You mean,
without regard to line endings? No, I don't think so. You could certainly
use your favorite stream-oriented editor to remove the line endings.

  Menu  Utilities  Compilers  O
---
   ISPF
Option ===>

0  Settings  Terminal and u
1  View  Display source
2  Edit  Create or chan
3  Utilities Perform utilit

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Seymour J Metz
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2021 3:34 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: And the survey says...

What about a linear copy?

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Re: And the survey says...

[Charles Mills]

Here's an example of a block copy in Vista. What's a linear copy? You mean,
without regard to line endings? No, I don't think so. You could certainly
use your favorite stream-oriented editor to remove the line endings.

  Menu  Utilities  Compilers  O
---
   ISPF
Option ===>
   
0  Settings  Terminal and u
1  View  Display source
2  Edit  Create or chan
3  Utilities Perform utilit

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Seymour J Metz
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2021 3:34 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: And the survey says...

What about a linear copy?

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Re: And the survey says...

[Seymour J Metz]

What about a linear copy?


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Gord Tomlin [gt.ibm.li...@actionsoftware.com]
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2021 5:25 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: And the survey says...

On 2021-04-30 17:04 PM, Seymour J Metz wrote:
> Can you do both a linear copy and a block copy?

Any rectangular selection.

--

Regards, Gord Tomlin
Action Software International
(a division of Mazda Computer Corporation)
Tel: (905) 470-7113, Fax: (905) 470-6507
Support: 
https://secure-web.cisco.com/1JS0L7CX_LlajppNxp79ieLiEqdAg0IY4q7QCefhLqE8phJrBrfxIZgn6WVLW8_qOdT-egAKcR3QFxZqT4gPzzCF9lM00Qn1_WogpWYJmP39fNhPuM--L8Hihx-c3qwDLNbHyPnY1zTOxlHjI6rrHKedKR7q8uuV1Vmi589Oh-AxKzb-bXVZShNarkVyTWmvGnUeEncyrl1LuXCLNVT9LTBEqJbLl68Zn-Qg_lhsD36xPOocAzCXZhbRUPADyQLFR7HHOBolLgkxOOqErNLqDMouPAvnx2XtCYgl-yZztbeyCiAfrbiV-FanvnXh2iw92Ry9qvq3c8VP_1iYWjJbXcNChDbZJ_HFKMktMUGGlttfqq0knXQeL24UmcIlImkhQ1klwMR1ykrmLR9tdEzoasKMVbxVUaVOQ4Znyw1IlEHMm7FU7SinJp26-4U33HCBN/https%3A%2F%2Factionsoftware.com%2Fsupport%2F

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Re: And the survey says...

[Gord Tomlin]

On 2021-04-30 17:04 PM, Seymour J Metz wrote:

Can you do both a linear copy and a block copy?


Any rectangular selection.

--

Regards, Gord Tomlin
Action Software International
(a division of Mazda Computer Corporation)
Tel: (905) 470-7113, Fax: (905) 470-6507
Support: https://actionsoftware.com/support/

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Re: And the survey says...

[Seymour J Metz]

Can you do both a linear copy and a block copy?


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Gord Tomlin [gt.ibm.li...@actionsoftware.com]
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2021 3:08 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: And the survey says...

On 2021-04-29 13:05 PM, Paul Gilmartin wrote:
> Alas, the screenshot-as-text is the $FeatureX apparently absent
> from the $EmulatorY modally favored in this thread.

I'm going to ASSume that "the $EmulatorY modally favored in this thread"
refers to Vista. With Vista, you can copy/paste any portion of the
contents of the screen as text (including the entire screen if desired),
which IMHO is much better than a screenshot tool that unconditionally
copies the entire screen contents.

--

Regards, Gord Tomlin
Action Software International
(a division of Mazda Computer Corporation)
Tel: (905) 470-7113, Fax: (905) 470-6507
Support: 
https://secure-web.cisco.com/1ZhR37Rv4TV1XaH-3OQw3oMaLIlUrSu1ze_crTkkG28T19M1cNutk943rbJ7H0g6QGt6DEhhj8mC3mUk2gYBJ26xTF_7RLy7ZVwnG0DLiocnKNAIkUCgPMepmOLbVRsAXkFxw5Jv-csyJmvbxAjfgwScvbRfjsyLYuszp8zxMm4gBNqQ2fCpgCd4VFGA34swYy_mzePLXXogd1BdfSmB64rSZVOffXqksxUSAcNvj-DWqQdZgCXYggX9V3bNPzEFneIwPY6JVY_xpU1ep2h-L9Wc2jRBSoqjY5xjpsZSOU3C3OmfcIhKJq-Z05t_P2AqEUknrT16PCTbr6N7y9ltXlvEYdEWftlEofXttFGSqOY9BICeXpgaI5e0kmpA_kWtTUDP8SRmkdAzQWEkF9gBtQF3yGmOG6rLqzWdF1iRSzbIyFRhwaTiMg0NDSbHiAxMN/https%3A%2F%2Factionsoftware.com%2Fsupport%2F

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Re: AW: And the survey says...

[Gord Tomlin]

On 2021-04-30 07:11 AM, Michael Knigge wrote:

I've worked with PCOM, RUMBA, Nexus and Vista tn3270 And I felt in love 
with Vista tn3270.. Why?! You might roll your eyes, but it's the font. The 
first time I've installed Vista tn3270 I looked at it and no other 3270 
Emulator I've used so far provided a such great looking and great readable font.


I don't think this is a trivial consideration. I like the Vista fonts 
too. They are very legible and don't give me eyestrain. As a side 
benefit of this legibility, I can comfortably configure my window to 
show more lines of code.


--

Regards, Gord Tomlin
Action Software International
(a division of Mazda Computer Corporation)
Tel: (905) 470-7113, Fax: (905) 470-6507
Support: https://actionsoftware.com/support/

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Re: And the survey says...

[Gord Tomlin]

On 2021-04-29 13:05 PM, Paul Gilmartin wrote:

Alas, the screenshot-as-text is the $FeatureX apparently absent
from the $EmulatorY modally favored in this thread.


I'm going to ASSume that "the $EmulatorY modally favored in this thread" 
refers to Vista. With Vista, you can copy/paste any portion of the 
contents of the screen as text (including the entire screen if desired), 
which IMHO is much better than a screenshot tool that unconditionally 
copies the entire screen contents.


--

Regards, Gord Tomlin
Action Software International
(a division of Mazda Computer Corporation)
Tel: (905) 470-7113, Fax: (905) 470-6507
Support: https://actionsoftware.com/support/

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Re: And the survey says...

[Seymour J Metz]

What I'm comfortable with is a slashed digit and an underscored letter.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Paul Gilmartin [000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2021 1:00 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: And the survey says...

On Fri, 30 Apr 2021 16:36:22 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:

>I once worked on a project for Bell Labs where their chain slashed Os rather 
>than zeroes.
>
I've seen "Ø"; also "Ō".  The rationale given was that the less common letters
should take more effort than the more common digits, like slashing "Ƶ".

-- gil

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Re: And the survey says...

[Radoslaw Skorupka]

W dniu 30.04.2021 o 18:29, Bob Bridges pisze:

Font?!  Emulators usually let you select among a variety of fonts.  (I always 
use Consolas these days, because it's fixed-spacing ~and~ slashes the zeroes.)  
Does Vista offer something unique?


Vista provide own font. The same for PCOMM.
Note, font is licensed, so you have to buy it. OK, usually you get font 
collection with your OS or you download something for free. However good 
terminal font is important IMHO.

Notes:
1. PCOMM and AFAIK Vista use non-scalable (bitmap) fonts. The 
disadvantage is limited set of effective screen resolutions. Truetype or 
other scalable fonts win in this aspect.
2. For the rest of the world it could be interesting to have national 
characters in the font. Many years ago I tried to find an emulator with 
*proper* polish codepage support. And it was quite hard to do. PCOMM was 
expensive, Vista had no font (however Tom gave me a tool to redefine 
bitmap fonts) and the only vendor who supported polish codepage was 
Nexus. Actually Nexus had an error, but the author insisted to fix it 
and he did it.
AFAIK today wc3270 also support polish codepage properly, possibly other 
products as well.


--
Radoslaw Skorupka
(looking for new job)
Lodz, Poland

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Re: And the survey says...

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Fri, 30 Apr 2021 16:36:22 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:

>I once worked on a project for Bell Labs where their chain slashed Os rather 
>than zeroes.
> 
I've seen "Ø"; also "Ō".  The rationale given was that the less common letters
should take more effort than the more common digits, like slashing "Ƶ".

-- gil

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Re: And the survey says...

[Chuck Kreiter]

Disclosure, I've used PComm, Vista, Attachmate Extra, IBM HOD, Mocha, 
Hummingbird and a few other emulators that I don’t recall.  

I find Hummingbird not terribly intuitive or set up well to customize it to 
make it more suitable for what I do.  For example, I have to use TSO file 
transfer (FTP is restricted) and Hummingbird "guesses" at what the transfer 
type is and it's almost always wrong.  I see no means to turn that off.  It 
seems slow (could be environmental); especially on startup and opening the 
first emulator.  Text Cut/paste puts commas all over the place.  I can't find 
any setting in Hummingbird to stop that.  

It's not a matter of being forced to use this and I'm more familiar with the 
other emulators. 


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Grant Taylor
Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2021 11:56 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: And the survey says...

On 4/29/21 7:33 AM, Chuck Kreiter wrote:
> My firm uses Hummingbird.  As a sysprog, I loathe it.  PCOMM and Vista 
> are the tops in the emulator space IMO.

Would you please elaborate on what Hummingbird does / doesn't do that make you 
loath it as a sysprog?  Or more generally, how the different capabilities of a 
terminal (emulator) influence it's use by -- what I'm presuming to be -- power 
users?

Thank you for enlightening me.



--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

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Re: AW: And the survey says...

[Grant Taylor]

On 4/30/21 5:11 AM, Michael Knigge wrote:
I've worked with PCOM, RUMBA, Nexus and Vista tn3270 And I felt 
in love with Vista tn3270.. Why?! You might roll your eyes, but it's 
the font.


No, I don't roll my eyes at that.

I /was/ going to say that's one of the /little/ creature features that 
make a worthwhile difference.  Except I changed my mind part way through 
typing creature as I realized that the font is one of the things that we 
will spend hours a day actually interacting with.  Many of the other 
creature features; script ability, screen dump, etc, all impact our 
day-to-day, hour-to-hour, minute-to-minute /use/ of something much less 
than a font.  Or said another way, the font is something that our brain 
will be processing and translating from a visual representation to 
something we cognitively understand.  So if there is something that can 
be done to make it easier for our brain to do when it does that hundreds 
if not thousands of times a day, that's a big win to me.


The Microsoft commercial where one IT guy stops another IT guy who is 
wondering around with dumbfounded look on his face looking at a nickle, 
and asks what's wrong comes to mind.  Then the 2nd IT guy tells the 1st 
IT guy that they are saving a nickle /per/ /transaction/ and hands the 
nickle to the 1st IT guy and walks off.  Then the 1st IT guy starts 
wondering around with an equally dumbfounded look on his face while 
making a comment "we process hundreds of thousands of transactions a day".


I say this because even the smallest change; cost reduction, 
simplification, efficiency gain, in something that happens a LOT ends up 
having a profound impact.  If that happens to be using a font that is 
easier for our brains to process, then by all means, so be it.


I loved it so much - I've "extracted" the font and use it also with 
my SPF/SE editor Still love it since over 10 years (I guess)


Nice.

I wonder if the font is available somewhere legally / with license 
elsewhere /or/ if it's /exclusive/ to the Vista tn3270.  If it's not 
available independent of Vista tn3270, then you may need a license of 
Vista tn3270 to legally use the font in a different terminal emulator or 
program on the system.


So, now I wonder if there is a different terminal emulator that does 
something else better than Vista tn3270 that could use the font from 
Vista tn3270 and make a superior hybrid solution.


Aside:  I know of Vista tn3270, but I have no idea how it's licensed.



--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

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Re: And the survey says...

[Seymour J Metz]

I once worked on a project for Bell Labs where their chain slashed Os rather 
than zeroes.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Bob 
Bridges [robhbrid...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2021 12:29 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: And the survey says...

Font?!  Emulators usually let you select among a variety of fonts.  (I always 
use Consolas these days, because it's fixed-spacing ~and~ slashes the zeroes.)  
Does Vista offer something unique?

---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313

/* Although small children have taboos against stepping on ants because such 
actions are said to bring on rain, there has never seemed to be a taboo against 
pulling off the legs or wings of flies.  Most children eventually outgrow this 
behavior.  Those who do not either come to a bad end or become biologists.  
-Vincent Dethier, _To Know a Fly_ */

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Michael Knigge
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2021 07:12

I've worked with PCOM, RUMBA, Nexus and Vista tn3270 And I felt in love 
with Vista tn3270.. Why?! You might roll your eyes, but it's the font. The 
first time I've installed Vista tn3270 I looked at it and no other 3270 
Emulator I've used so far provided a such great looking and great readable font.

I loved it so much - I've "extracted" the font and use it also with my SPF/SE 
editor Still love it since over 10 years (I guess)

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Re: User complaints (was "And the survey says...")

[Seymour J Metz]

Q: "why didn't you tell me foo?" A: "Because it didn't matter."

They almost always give their (mistaken) interpretation instead of the raw data.

I also hated the ones hat gave me a SYSABEND on dead trees instead of of a 
SYSMDUMP that I could browse in IPCS.

But it's not always the user's fault. "I got message foo". "What does System 
Messages say?" "Contact your system programmer." Thanks, IBM, I am the systems 
programmer.

Rule 1: trust but verify.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Bob 
Bridges [robhbrid...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2021 12:23 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: User complaints (was "And the survey says...")

My favorite:

Customer: That trick you showed me?  It didn't work.
Me: What ~did~ it do?
Customer: Nothing.
Me: Oh, come on, it did something.  You got an error message, right?  What did 
it say?
Customer: Oh, it said some damn thing.

This was a regular customer; we'd had this conversation before, and he was 
laughing at himself as he said it.  But he still said it.

---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313

/* Experience keeps a dear school, but a fool will learn in no other.  -Ben 
Franklin */

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Charles Mills
Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2021 14:20

Customer: it blew up.
Us: what was the error message?
Customer: I don't know, something about an error occurred.
Us: Please send us the listing.
Customer: Oh, we already purged the output. When are you going to have a fix 
for us?

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Re: And the survey says...

[Bob Bridges]

Font?!  Emulators usually let you select among a variety of fonts.  (I always 
use Consolas these days, because it's fixed-spacing ~and~ slashes the zeroes.)  
Does Vista offer something unique?

---
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/* Although small children have taboos against stepping on ants because such 
actions are said to bring on rain, there has never seemed to be a taboo against 
pulling off the legs or wings of flies.  Most children eventually outgrow this 
behavior.  Those who do not either come to a bad end or become biologists.  
-Vincent Dethier, _To Know a Fly_ */

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Michael Knigge
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2021 07:12

I've worked with PCOM, RUMBA, Nexus and Vista tn3270 And I felt in love 
with Vista tn3270.. Why?! You might roll your eyes, but it's the font. The 
first time I've installed Vista tn3270 I looked at it and no other 3270 
Emulator I've used so far provided a such great looking and great readable font.

I loved it so much - I've "extracted" the font and use it also with my SPF/SE 
editor Still love it since over 10 years (I guess)

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Re: And the survey says... [sidebar]

[Seymour J Metz]

To me the real thing if LibreOffice or BookMaster (z"l). I used to call 
WordPerfect WordPervert until I had to use ms office. In particular, 
cut-and-paste of items in lists is horribly broken.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Bob 
Bridges [robhbrid...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2021 12:10 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: And the survey says... [sidebar]

Makes sense to me.  I use the same reasoning whenever I buy a new PC and shell 
out actual money for a copy of Office Pro.  The lookalikes (my sister swears by 
Open Office, for example) may ~say~ they're fully compatible.  But when I 
supply a solution to a client I'm unwilling to risk it; it's gotta be the real 
thing.

---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313

/* My new thesaurus is terrible.  My new thesaurus is also...terrible.  -Rand 
Bellavia */

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Jesse 1 Robinson
Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2021 12:12

Interestingly, Tom himself always had Attachmate at the ready on his 
workstation when I couldn't be bothered. His reasoning: since it was the 
corporate standard, he needed to able to handle problem calls.

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User complaints (was "And the survey says...")

[Bob Bridges]

My favorite:

Customer: That trick you showed me?  It didn't work.
Me: What ~did~ it do?
Customer: Nothing.
Me: Oh, come on, it did something.  You got an error message, right?  What did 
it say?
Customer: Oh, it said some damn thing.

This was a regular customer; we'd had this conversation before, and he was 
laughing at himself as he said it.  But he still said it.

---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313

/* Experience keeps a dear school, but a fool will learn in no other.  -Ben 
Franklin */

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Charles Mills
Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2021 14:20

Customer: it blew up.
Us: what was the error message?
Customer: I don't know, something about an error occurred.
Us: Please send us the listing.
Customer: Oh, we already purged the output. When are you going to have a fix 
for us?

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Re: And the survey says...

[Bob Bridges]

Oops.  I was JUST thinking I should maybe look into it.  Guess I won't.

---
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/* I'm not into working out.  My philosophy: No pain, no pain.  -Carol Leifer */

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2021 13:05

I have at times served in a quasi-helpdesk position (responding to reports of 
problems in my own code.)  I much preferred that users report with screenshots 
not in images but as text that I could search-select-copy-paste to analyze or 
reproduce a problem.

Alas, the screenshot-as-text is the $FeatureX apparently absent from the 
$EmulatorY modally favored in this thread.

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Re: And the survey says... [sidebar]

[Bob Bridges]

Makes sense to me.  I use the same reasoning whenever I buy a new PC and shell 
out actual money for a copy of Office Pro.  The lookalikes (my sister swears by 
Open Office, for example) may ~say~ they're fully compatible.  But when I 
supply a solution to a client I'm unwilling to risk it; it's gotta be the real 
thing.

---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313

/* My new thesaurus is terrible.  My new thesaurus is also...terrible.  -Rand 
Bellavia */

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Jesse 1 Robinson
Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2021 12:12

Interestingly, Tom himself always had Attachmate at the ready on his 
workstation when I couldn't be bothered. His reasoning: since it was the 
corporate standard, he needed to able to handle problem calls.   

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Re: And the survey says...

[Seymour J Metz]

The author cited GDDM manuals rather than 3179G manuals or the 3270 data 
streams manual.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Greg Price [greg.pr...@optusnet.com.au]
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2021 2:44 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: And the survey says...

On 29/04/2021 7:41 pm, Alexander Huemer wrote:
> I was just pointed to this document: [1].
> Definitely not the 3179G book you mentioned, but it seems to contain
> information related to 3270 vector graphics. Maybe it helps.
>
> -Alex
>
> [1]https://secure-web.cisco.com/1oUY7cTeCPup1dcBrSkTcysT01jy8UiXbNsZpHl3dU6uzq99SJDpX3jQAwr47yy0TbYMdImgwWucJHjNe-ACfV2LziqSy9KNSryIAqT-NedKkTwnDa0hpH-tyijBQrgRqYyKGF79pZqeSOjWp9_HygeH2oLfjpvhwT1QKt-MbLztfRfaAZspJgDNXIeP9eiroPUrF8vGe556nVd4Rb7u_Hl-lrFGa1HIWiNlZBwdUtbVYfvuOjbvI2vF7AARgHqv0_-d_JR6F5gXDba1FGvIDT8O0yq8P7Y5ByNYnSGH-WaGjc22Sfa7hqMs88TeXo107wMEYrXCcBLjgVSf__Jl_aC_44knRNemCIfRemVp3VZVLBadw-alsLncUbijCSEqx0Ow-pD1o0BYB2N74fOskteKmLJC7JDPYL8DdyADNq0FxZHg1hz9fp_HDAZBVGgcF/https%3A%2F%2Fwww.slac.stanford.edu%2Fvault%2Fcollvault%2Fgreylit%2Fcgtm%2FCGTM205.pdf

Thanks Alex - I've downloaded a copy to peruse...

I read the section on the 3179-G - the author was not very complimentary
about the device or the available documentation about it. Given his
comparison to other graphics devices (DEC, Tektronics, etc.) I'm
inclined to agree.

Cheers,
Greg

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AW: And the survey says...

[Michael Knigge]

I think you're close 

I've worked with PCOM, RUMBA, Nexus and Vista tn3270 And I felt in love 
with Vista tn3270.. Why?! You might roll your eyes, but it's the font. The 
first time I've installed Vista tn3270 I looked at it and no other 3270 
Emulator I've used so far provided a such great looking and great readable font.

I loved it so much - I've "extracted" the font and use it also with my SPF/SE 
editor Still love it since over 10 years (I guess)

Bye,
Michael



SET GmbH
Rühmkorffstraße 5
30163 Hannover

Telefon: +49 511 330 998 23
Fax: +49 511 330 998 65
michael.kni...@set.de
www.set.de

Handelsregister: Amtsgericht Hannover HRB 52778
​Geschäftsführer: Dr.-Ing. Tobias Baum, Arthur Brack, Hendrik Leder 
Mit freundlichen Grüßen

Michael Knigge



SET GmbH
Rühmkorffstraße 5
30163 Hannover

Telefon: +49 511 330 998 23
Fax: +49 511 330 998 65
michael.kni...@set.de
www.set.de

Handelsregister: Amtsgericht Hannover HRB 52778
​Geschäftsführer: Tobias Baum, Arthur Brack, Hendrik Leder -Ursprüngliche 
Nachricht-
Von: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  Im Auftrag von 
Grant Taylor
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 29. April 2021 18:40
An: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Betreff: Re: And the survey says...

On 4/29/21 10:09 AM, Charles Mills wrote:
> I don't have any stake in this game but I kind of suspect the best
> 3270 emulator in the world is the one I am used to; and conversely, 
> the worst 3270 emulator in the world is any other that I am being 
> forced to use.

~chuckle~

I wondered if something like 'pie in hand' might be the case.

But I do know that there is a big difference in the capabilities of various 
VT100 / ANSI terminal emulators (where I have more experience). 
Almost all of those emulators will perform a very basic function.  But the 
differences almost always revolve around what features sit on top of basic 
terminal emulation; scripting / automation, connection parameter abilities, 
preferences / customization support, et al.

But I asked the question wondering if there was something that made 
$YourPreferredTerminalEmulator stand out for you.  E.g. I like $FeatureX of 
$EmulatorY (for reasons).



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Re: And the survey says...

[Greg Price]

On 29/04/2021 7:41 pm, Alexander Huemer wrote:

I was just pointed to this document: [1].
Definitely not the 3179G book you mentioned, but it seems to contain
information related to 3270 vector graphics. Maybe it helps.

-Alex

[1]https://www.slac.stanford.edu/vault/collvault/greylit/cgtm/CGTM205.pdf


Thanks Alex - I've downloaded a copy to peruse...

I read the section on the 3179-G - the author was not very complimentary 
about the device or the available documentation about it. Given his 
comparison to other graphics devices (DEC, Tektronics, etc.) I'm 
inclined to agree.


Cheers,
Greg

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Re: And the survey says...

[Tom Brennan]

Doug Nadel surprised me 22 years ago by sending me a macro that reads 
the internal screen buffers and produces an HTML file, if that helps. 
It worked for me just now: 
https://www.tombrennansoftware.com/test/html.mac  After that I think he 
created a program to read ISPF internal screen buffers to do the same - 
but of course that was only for ISPF.  The macro should work with any 
application.


As for graphics vs. text:  For Windows/Web issues I like graphics.  For 
mainframe problems I like text of course.


Ha ha... even worse after getting "It's broke" is when I ask for more 
info, and they come back with "I fixed it" with no information about 
either problem or solution.


On 4/29/2021 11:20 AM, Charles Mills wrote:

Agreed all around. I suspect the Windows screen capture is not visible to or 
modifiable by the application.

Yeah, a "grab all" would be nice. For doc purposes, I wish Tom could do an RTF format copy that 
would preserve text colors, but they are easy enough to "fake back" while doing the doc. Vista has 
a "save screen to disk" function but I have never used it.

Yeah, I hate "graphical" screen shots in problem tickets, but what are you 
going to do? The customer is always right, right? It's often hard enough to get anything 
out of them:

Customer: it blew up.
Us: what was the error message?
Customer: I don't know, something about an error occurred.
Us: Please send us the listing.
Customer: Oh, we already purged the output. When are you going to have a fix 
for us?

Charles



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And the survey says...

[Billy Ashton]

Does Vista have the ability to only use one taskbar icon, and stack all 
the sessions as tabs within that one instance? I often have a number of 
sessions open, and would rather have one icon than bunches (especially 
since I can use a toolbar button to swap sessions).


Here's hopin'!
Billy

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Re: And the survey says...

[Grant Taylor]

On 4/29/21 12:44 PM, Paul Gilmartin wrote:

IIRC, I based my erroneous opinion on:
 https://www.tombrennansoftware.com/screens.html
 https://www.tombrennansoftware.com/edit.html
That's only an image -- I hate those!


An image is better than nothing.


x3270 offers a choice of:
o Bitmap (which is embedded in PostScript!)


I'm guessing that the bitmap is as useful as the images linked to above.


o Text


Text is better than pictures.  Especially if it's formatting is good (or 
can be fixed with a font change).



o HTML (which preserves colors in searchable text)
o Rich Text


I would expect both of these to preserve colors and be searchable.

I used to always try to copy text into documentation, matching fonts, 
colors, and layout to look like the real thing.  That way if someone 
searched the documentation for a message, chances were very good that 
the screen grab (or the surrounding test) would match.


If someone finds something that's not (yet) documented, well, they get 
to update the documentation accordingly while preserving the style.  -- 
We used this extensively when I was at IBM and used Team Rooms in Lotus 
Notes / Domino.



"Props"?  "Perhaps"?


"Props" as in "kudos" or "accolades" for having a nice feature.



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Re: And the survey says...

[Grant Taylor]

On 4/29/21 12:20 PM, Charles Mills wrote:
Agreed all around. I suspect the Windows screen capture is not visible 
to or modifiable by the application.


Probably.  Yet there are media players which have the ability to thwart 
the built in screen shot capability.  So there's some limited 
interaction.  Probably not anything usable.


Yeah, a "grab all" would be nice. For doc purposes, I wish Tom could 
do an RTF format copy that would preserve text colors, but they are 
easy enough to "fake back" while doing the doc. Vista has a "save 
screen to disk" function but I have never used it.


I have enabled the options on XTerm to enable it's XHTML / SVG "Screen 
Dump" ability.  I really like that.


Yeah, I hate "graphical" screen shots in problem tickets, but what 
are you going to do?


Say I need more data.  Preferably data that's usable.


The customer is always right, right?


Wrong.  The customer is not always right.  The trick is getting them to 
understand when they are wrong.  In my experience, it usually works best 
by educating them so that they naturally come to the conclusion that 
they are, or were, wrong.  But that takes effort.  Sometimes a LOT of 
effort.



It's often hard enough to get anything out of them:

Customer: it blew up.
Us: what was the error message?
Customer: I don't know, something about an error occurred.
Us: Please send us the listing.
Customer: Oh, we already purged the output. When are you going to 
have a fix for us?


I can't fix something without details to identify it.

This old aviation joke comes to mind.

  Pilot:  Something loose in cockpit.
Maintenance:  Something tightened in cockpit.

If you don't provide sufficient details, you get whatever I want to fix.



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Re: And the survey says...

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Thu, 29 Apr 2021 11:20:08 -0700, Charles Mills wrote:

>Agreed all around. I suspect the Windows screen capture is not visible to or 
>modifiable by the application.
> 
IIRC, I based my erroneous opinion on:
https://www.tombrennansoftware.com/screens.html
https://www.tombrennansoftware.com/edit.html
That's only an image -- I hate those!

>Yeah, a "grab all" would be nice. For doc purposes, I wish Tom could do an RTF 
>format copy that would preserve text colors, but they are easy enough to "fake 
>back" while doing the doc. Vista has a "save screen to disk" function but I 
>have never used it.
> 
x3270 offers a choice of:
o Bitmap (which is embedded in PostScript!)
o Text
o HTML (which preserves colors in searchable text)
o Rich Text

>Yeah, I hate "graphical" screen shots in problem tickets, but what are you 
>going to do? The customer is always right, right? It's often hard enough to 
>get anything out of them:
>
>Customer: it blew up.
>Us: what was the error message?
>Customer: I don't know, something about an error occurred.
>Us: Please send us the listing.
>Customer: Oh, we already purged the output. When are you going to have a fix 
>for us?


>-Original Message-
>From: Grant Taylor
>Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2021 10:52 AM
>> But too many users reach by reflex for the Windows screen snapshot 
>> shortcut.
>...
>Props if the terminal can take a screen capture which is tantamount to 
>do an entire screen copy for you to paste as text elsewhere.
>
"Props"?  "Perhaps"?

-- gil

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Re: And the survey says...

[Charles Mills]

Agreed all around. I suspect the Windows screen capture is not visible to or 
modifiable by the application.

Yeah, a "grab all" would be nice. For doc purposes, I wish Tom could do an RTF 
format copy that would preserve text colors, but they are easy enough to "fake 
back" while doing the doc. Vista has a "save screen to disk" function but I 
have never used it.

Yeah, I hate "graphical" screen shots in problem tickets, but what are you 
going to do? The customer is always right, right? It's often hard enough to get 
anything out of them:

Customer: it blew up.
Us: what was the error message?
Customer: I don't know, something about an error occurred.
Us: Please send us the listing.
Customer: Oh, we already purged the output. When are you going to have a fix 
for us?

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Grant Taylor
Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2021 10:52 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: And the survey says...

On 4/29/21 11:45 AM, Paul Gilmartin wrote:
> But too many users reach by reflex for the Windows screen snapshot 
> shortcut.

I suspect that's because for GUI applications, a picture, is probably 
quite appropriate.

Conversely, for terminal applications, a decided subset of most Windows 
applications, text is better.  So in this case, the terminal application 
is an outlier and subject to the more common default picture.

But I completely agree, the text copy & paste is a LOT better.

Props if the terminal can take a screen capture which is tantamount to 
do an entire screen copy for you to paste as text elsewhere.

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Re: And the survey says...

[Grant Taylor]

On 4/29/21 11:45 AM, Paul Gilmartin wrote:
But too many users reach by reflex for the Windows screen snapshot 
shortcut.


I suspect that's because for GUI applications, a picture, is probably 
quite appropriate.


Conversely, for terminal applications, a decided subset of most Windows 
applications, text is better.  So in this case, the terminal application 
is an outlier and subject to the more common default picture.


But I completely agree, the text copy & paste is a LOT better.

Props if the terminal can take a screen capture which is tantamount to 
do an entire screen copy for you to paste as text elsewhere.




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Re: And the survey says...

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Thu, 29 Apr 2021 10:30:51 -0700, Charles Mills wrote:

>> screenshot-as-text is the $FeatureX apparently absent
>> from the $EmulatorY modally favored in this thread
>
>Below is from Vista. Is this not what you want.
> 
I am delighted to stand corrected.  I haven't Vista but looked at the
online doc, more sales than user oriented, and didn't see it mentioned.
But too many users reach by reflex for the Windows screen snapshot
shortcut.

> ===    ==   ==   
> ===   ==   === ===   
>   ===   ===  ==   == 
>   ===   ==== === 
>   ===   ==   === === 
>   ===   ===  ===  =  === 
> ===   ==   =   ===   =   
> ===    ===   
>  Welcome to the IBM Z Dallas ISV Center  
>z/OS TN3270-TLS1.2
>   for Help follow directions on web page:
> http://dtsc.dfw.ibm.com/contact.html 
>  
> IBM's internal systems must only be used for conducting  
> IBM's business or for purposes authorized by IBM 
> management.  
> Use is subject to audit at any time by IBM management.   
>  
>   Choose from the following commands:
>   DR2- Logon SVSCDR2 
>   SY6- Logon SVSCSY6 
> 
Thanks,
gil

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Re: And the survey says...

[Charles Mills]

> screenshot-as-text is the $FeatureX apparently absent
> from the $EmulatorY modally favored in this thread

Below is from Vista. Is this not what you want.

 ===    ==   ==   
 ===   ==   === ===   
   ===   ===  ==   == 
   ===   ==== === 
   ===   ==   === === 
   ===   ===  ===  =  === 
 ===   ==   =   ===   =   
 ===    ===   
  Welcome to the IBM Z Dallas ISV Center  
z/OS TN3270-TLS1.2
   for Help follow directions on web page:
 http://dtsc.dfw.ibm.com/contact.html 
  
 IBM's internal systems must only be used for conducting  
 IBM's business or for purposes authorized by IBM 
 management.  
 Use is subject to audit at any time by IBM management.   
  
   Choose from the following commands:
   DR2- Logon SVSCDR2 
   SY6- Logon SVSCSY6 
  
Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2021 10:05 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: And the survey says...

On Thu, 29 Apr 2021 10:39:55 -0600, Grant Taylor wrote:
>
>But I asked the question wondering if there was something that made
>$YourPreferredTerminalEmulator stand out for you.  E.g. I like $FeatureX 
>of $EmulatorY (for reasons).
> 
I have at times served in a quasi-helpdesk position (responding to
reports of problems in my own code.)  I much preferred that users
report with screenshots not in images but as text that I could
search-select-copy-paste to analyze or reproduce a problem.

Alas, the screenshot-as-text is the $FeatureX apparently absent
from the $EmulatorY modally favored in this thread.

-- gil

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Re: And the survey says...

[Bill Johnson]

Bingo. I’ve used half a dozen or more over the years. All of them performed 90% 
of what you need. The other 10%, you can usually work around. The problem for 
vendors is most of you want everything and you want it free.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Thursday, April 29, 2021, 12:09 PM, Charles Mills  wrote:

> Would you please elaborate on what Hummingbird does / doesn't do that make 
> you loath it as a sysprog?  

I don't have any stake in this game but I kind of suspect the best 3270 
emulator in the world is the one I am used to; and conversely, the worst 3270 
emulator in the world is any other that I am being forced to use.

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Grant Taylor
Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2021 8:56 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: And the survey says...

On 4/29/21 7:33 AM, Chuck Kreiter wrote:
> My firm uses Hummingbird.  As a sysprog, I loathe it.  PCOMM and 
> Vista are the tops in the emulator space IMO.

Would you please elaborate on what Hummingbird does / doesn't do that 
make you loath it as a sysprog?  Or more generally, how the different 
capabilities of a terminal (emulator) influence it's use by -- what I'm 
presuming to be -- power users?

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Re: And the survey says...

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Thu, 29 Apr 2021 10:39:55 -0600, Grant Taylor wrote:
>
>But I asked the question wondering if there was something that made
>$YourPreferredTerminalEmulator stand out for you.  E.g. I like $FeatureX 
>of $EmulatorY (for reasons).
> 
I have at times served in a quasi-helpdesk position (responding to
reports of problems in my own code.)  I much preferred that users
report with screenshots not in images but as text that I could
search-select-copy-paste to analyze or reproduce a problem.

Alas, the screenshot-as-text is the $FeatureX apparently absent
from the $EmulatorY modally favored in this thread.

-- gil

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Re: And the survey says...

[Grant Taylor]

On 4/29/21 10:09 AM, Charles Mills wrote:
I don't have any stake in this game but I kind of suspect the best 
3270 emulator in the world is the one I am used to; and conversely, 
the worst 3270 emulator in the world is any other that I am being 
forced to use.


~chuckle~

I wondered if something like 'pie in hand' might be the case.

But I do know that there is a big difference in the capabilities of 
various VT100 / ANSI terminal emulators (where I have more experience). 
Almost all of those emulators will perform a very basic function.  But 
the differences almost always revolve around what features sit on top of 
basic terminal emulation; scripting / automation, connection parameter 
abilities, preferences / customization support, et al.


But I asked the question wondering if there was something that made 
$YourPreferredTerminalEmulator stand out for you.  E.g. I like $FeatureX 
of $EmulatorY (for reasons).




--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

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Re: And the survey says...

[Charles Mills]

> Would you please elaborate on what Hummingbird does / doesn't do that make 
> you loath it as a sysprog?  

I don't have any stake in this game but I kind of suspect the best 3270 
emulator in the world is the one I am used to; and conversely, the worst 3270 
emulator in the world is any other that I am being forced to use.

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Grant Taylor
Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2021 8:56 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: And the survey says...

On 4/29/21 7:33 AM, Chuck Kreiter wrote:
> My firm uses Hummingbird.  As a sysprog, I loathe it.  PCOMM and 
> Vista are the tops in the emulator space IMO.

Would you please elaborate on what Hummingbird does / doesn't do that 
make you loath it as a sysprog?  Or more generally, how the different 
capabilities of a terminal (emulator) influence it's use by -- what I'm 
presuming to be -- power users?

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Re: And the survey says...

[Grant Taylor]

On 4/29/21 7:33 AM, Chuck Kreiter wrote:
My firm uses Hummingbird.  As a sysprog, I loathe it.  PCOMM and 
Vista are the tops in the emulator space IMO.


Would you please elaborate on what Hummingbird does / doesn't do that 
make you loath it as a sysprog?  Or more generally, how the different 
capabilities of a terminal (emulator) influence it's use by -- what I'm 
presuming to be -- power users?


Thank you for enlightening me.



--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

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Re: And the survey says...

[Mike Shorkend]

Another vote for Vista 3270/Tom Brennan Software

On Thu, 29 Apr 2021 at 16:33, Chuck Kreiter 
wrote:

> My firm uses Hummingbird.  As a sysprog, I loathe it.  PCOMM and Vista are
> the tops in the emulator space IMO.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Allan Staller
> Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 10:09 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: And the survey says...
>
> Classification: Confidential
>
> What 3270 emulator are you using?
>
> I (and my colleagues) have been using PCOMM as our 3270 emulator by
> corporate edict.
> Corporate has removed PCOMM from the available list of emulators, hence
> this
> survey (survey ends Fri. Apr 30 @ COB).
>
> Since we have to go through a procurement process, we want to obtain the
> optimal product.
> I am aware of the usual suspects and have them on my short list.
>
> Responses can be posted on-list or directly to me.
>
> Thanks to all in advance for your time and attention,
>
>
>
>
> ::DISCLAIMER::
> 
> The contents of this e-mail and any attachment(s) are confidential and
> intended for the named recipient(s) only. E-mail transmission is not
> guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted,
> corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or may contain
> viruses in transmission. The e mail and its contents (with or without
> referred errors) shall therefore not attach any liability on the originator
> or HCL or its affiliates. Views or opinions, if any, presented in this
> email
> are solely those of the author and may not necessarily reflect the views or
> opinions of HCL or its affiliates. Any form of reproduction, dissemination,
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> this
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> HCL is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please
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>
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-- 
Mike Shorkend
m...@shorkend.com
Tel: +972524208743

<https://www.linkedin.com/in/MikeShorkend/>

<https://twitter.com/mikeShorkend>

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Re: And the survey says...

[Chuck Kreiter]

My firm uses Hummingbird.  As a sysprog, I loathe it.  PCOMM and Vista are
the tops in the emulator space IMO.  

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Allan Staller
Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 10:09 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: And the survey says...

Classification: Confidential

What 3270 emulator are you using?

I (and my colleagues) have been using PCOMM as our 3270 emulator by
corporate edict.
Corporate has removed PCOMM from the available list of emulators, hence this
survey (survey ends Fri. Apr 30 @ COB).

Since we have to go through a procurement process, we want to obtain the
optimal product.
I am aware of the usual suspects and have them on my short list.

Responses can be posted on-list or directly to me.

Thanks to all in advance for your time and attention,




::DISCLAIMER::

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corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or may contain
viruses in transmission. The e mail and its contents (with or without
referred errors) shall therefore not attach any liability on the originator
or HCL or its affiliates. Views or opinions, if any, presented in this email
are solely those of the author and may not necessarily reflect the views or
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Re: And the survey says...

[Alexander Huemer]

Hi Greg

I was just pointed to this document: [1].
Definitely not the 3179G book you mentioned, but it seems to contain 
information related to 3270 vector graphics. Maybe it helps.

-Alex

[1] https://www.slac.stanford.edu/vault/collvault/greylit/cgtm/CGTM205.pdf

On Wed, Apr 28, 2021 at 11:50:33PM +1000, Greg Price wrote:
> On 28/04/2021 2:33 am, Seymour J Metz wrote:
> > GDDM and PGF are the primary programs for 3270 graphics. I don't know 
> > whether SAS Graph requires GDDM.
> 
> Well, I've coded programmed symbols and I've coded some native vector
> graphics, but I don't know the protocols to code PC-LINK graphics. I gather
> the latter is where the host offloads more of the work to the workstation.
> 
> The spec for programmed symbols is documented in the 3270 Data Stream
> Programmer's Reference, but for the other two you'd probably need to do a
> VTAM trace of GDDM terminal I/O to figure out.
> 
> Native vector graphics used to be documented in the 3179G book, but that
> disappeared after the 3179G was discontinued. (If anyone has one they'd like
> to sell then please let me know.) I'd say it is very close to the codes that
> GDDM uses itself internally.
> 
> If you have a 3270 graphics application that could be made to work with GDDM
> then I'd recommend you do so because then you can let GDDM figure out which
> graphics protocol to use for any given terminal and how to convert your
> requests to the appropriate data stream orders.  I would guess that SAS
> Graph would call GDDM, but that's just a guess.
> 
> I've "assisted" (badgered?) two TN3270 client authors in adding programmed
> symbol graphics support to their products (really just clarified the spec
> and provided testing feedback). One decided the potential for support cases
> wasn't worth the effort/risk, and the other (Nexus Terminal) has retained it
> in the product.
> 
> As someone said, Nexus is very fast, and the support is very responsive to
> customers.
> 
> (Disclaimer: Both TN3270 client authors generously waived the fee to allow
> me to use their products, both of which are of excellent quality.)
> 
> The REVIEW command (available from CBT and elsewhere - release 50 should be
> coming out soon) has some code to render bitmaps (.BMP, .PCX, .GIF) on 3270
> graphics screens (LPS and native vector graphics only) without using GDDM.
> (GDDM will be called for PC-LINK.) Don't expect true-color rendering.
> Haven't tested large pictures lately, but small ones work pretty well
> AFAICT.
> 
> Cheers,
> Greg
> 
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AW: And the survey says...

[Immo]

Hi Allan,

if you would like to try out our Java based 3270/5250 emulator JProtector,
which might not yet be on your short list of prospects, please let me know.

Regards,

Michael

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  Im Auftrag von
Allan Staller
Gesendet: Dienstag, 27. April 2021 16:09
An: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Betreff: And the survey says...

Classification: Confidential

What 3270 emulator are you using?

I (and my colleagues) have been using PCOMM as our 3270 emulator by
corporate edict.
Corporate has removed PCOMM from the available list of emulators, hence this
survey (survey ends Fri. Apr 30 @ COB).

Since we have to go through a procurement process, we want to obtain the
optimal product.
I am aware of the usual suspects and have them on my short list.

Responses can be posted on-list or directly to me.

Thanks to all in advance for your time and attention,




::DISCLAIMER::

The contents of this e-mail and any attachment(s) are confidential and
intended for the named recipient(s) only. E-mail transmission is not
guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted,
corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or may contain
viruses in transmission. The e mail and its contents (with or without
referred errors) shall therefore not attach any liability on the originator
or HCL or its affiliates. Views or opinions, if any, presented in this email
are solely those of the author and may not necessarily reflect the views or
opinions of HCL or its affiliates. Any form of reproduction, dissemination,
copying, disclosure, modification, distribution and / or publication of this
message without the prior written consent of authorized representative of
HCL is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please
delete it and notify the sender immediately. Before opening any email and/or
attachments, please check them for viruses and other defects.


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Re: And the survey says...

[Billy Ashton]

Does Vista have the ability to only use one taskbar icon, and stack all 
the sessions as tabs within that one instance? I often have a number of 
sessions open, and would rather have one icon than bunches (especially 
since I can use a toolbar button to swap sessions).


Here's hopin'!
Billy

-- Original Message --
From: "Jesse 1 Robinson" 
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
Sent: 4/28/2021 12:11:35 PM
Subject: Re: And the survey says...


I've used only Vista since the day long ago when Tom asked me to try out this 
new app he had written. Even though Attachmate remains the corporate standard 
(with no input from actual mainframe users). I've seen IBMers giving classes 
and demos using Vista.

Interestingly, Tom himself always had Attachmate at the ready on his 
workstation when I couldn't be bothered. His reasoning: since it was the 
corporate standard, he needed to able to handle problem calls.

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
robin...@sce.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Farley, Peter x23353
Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2021 8:23 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: And the survey says...

*** EXTERNAL EMAIL - Use caution when opening links or attachments ***

The github for pw3270 is here:

https://github.com/PerryWerneck/pw3270

Safer than the government site Radoslaw posted, which my company's net nanny 
software prevented me from accessing because there are certificate problems.

Peter

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Radoslaw Skorupka
Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2021 11:13 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: And the survey says...

Advertisement:
Apart from x3270 family (wc3270, wx3270...) there is another *free* emulator.
It is pw3270
PW is Perry Werneck.
github.com/PerryWerneck/pw3270
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://softwarepublico.gov.br/social/pw3270/__;!!Ebr-cpPeAnfNniQ8HSAI-g_K5b7VKg!dpaA7q1qdSGtk8gMhBSNqPc1t_tsI6nwNUdS5YsYYDp7PetWBlyJPreC-fHXsIX6iFJ9nQ$

BTW: The last page is interesting - government official page with free software.

Of course I get 10% of purchase price ;-)

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Re: And the survey says...

[Mike Schwab]

https://medlineplus.gov/genetics/condition/color-vision-deficiency/
Sounds like Blue color deficiency (1 in 10,000 M/F) and not blue /
yellow color blindness.

On Wed, Apr 28, 2021 at 12:53 AM Robert Prins  wrote:
>
> On 2021-04-28 04:19, Tom Brennan wrote:
> > Blue color:  I've never been able to see blue (0,0,255) very well, so it 
> > might
> > be more than just getting old.  I would watch other people having no trouble
> > reading their blue text while I struggled.
>
> Also have severe trouble with the "blue" "blue", my "blue" on Vista is 
> 120,144,240
>
> Robert
> --
> Robert AH Prins
> robert(a)prino(d)org
> The hitchhiking grandfather - https://prino.neocities.org/indez.html
> Some REXX code for use on z/OS - 
> https://prino.neocities.org/zOS/zOS-Tools.html
>
> --
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-- 
Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?

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Re: And the survey says...

[Jesse 1 Robinson]

I've used only Vista since the day long ago when Tom asked me to try out this 
new app he had written. Even though Attachmate remains the corporate standard 
(with no input from actual mainframe users). I've seen IBMers giving classes 
and demos using Vista. 

Interestingly, Tom himself always had Attachmate at the ready on his 
workstation when I couldn't be bothered. His reasoning: since it was the 
corporate standard, he needed to able to handle problem calls.   

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
robin...@sce.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Farley, Peter x23353
Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2021 8:23 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: And the survey says...

*** EXTERNAL EMAIL - Use caution when opening links or attachments ***

The github for pw3270 is here:

https://github.com/PerryWerneck/pw3270

Safer than the government site Radoslaw posted, which my company's net nanny 
software prevented me from accessing because there are certificate problems.

Peter

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Radoslaw Skorupka
Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2021 11:13 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: And the survey says...

Advertisement:
Apart from x3270 family (wc3270, wx3270...) there is another *free* emulator.
It is pw3270
PW is Perry Werneck.
github.com/PerryWerneck/pw3270
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://softwarepublico.gov.br/social/pw3270/__;!!Ebr-cpPeAnfNniQ8HSAI-g_K5b7VKg!dpaA7q1qdSGtk8gMhBSNqPc1t_tsI6nwNUdS5YsYYDp7PetWBlyJPreC-fHXsIX6iFJ9nQ$

BTW: The last page is interesting - government official page with free software.

Of course I get 10% of purchase price ;-)

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Re: And the survey says...

[W Mainframe]

Radoslaw,
The Brazilian government adopted this "open" solution due to high costs of 
TN3270 emulators availables in our country.It is a good option and has Rexx 
support for macros.
Dan


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Wednesday, April 28, 2021, 12:22 PM, Farley, Peter x23353 
<031df298a9da-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

The github for pw3270 is here:

https://github.com/PerryWerneck/pw3270

Safer than the government site Radoslaw posted, which my company's net nanny 
software prevented me from accessing because there are certificate problems.

Peter

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Radoslaw Skorupka
Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2021 11:13 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: And the survey says...

Advertisement:
Apart from x3270 family (wc3270, wx3270...) there is another *free* emulator.
It is pw3270
PW is Perry Werneck.
github.com/PerryWerneck/pw3270
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://softwarepublico.gov.br/social/pw3270/__;!!Ebr-cpPeAnfNniQ8HSAI-g_K5b7VKg!dpaA7q1qdSGtk8gMhBSNqPc1t_tsI6nwNUdS5YsYYDp7PetWBlyJPreC-fHXsIX6iFJ9nQ$
 

BTW: The last page is interesting - government official page with free software.

Of course I get 10% of purchase price ;-)

--

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Re: And the survey says...

[Farley, Peter x23353]

The github for pw3270 is here:

https://github.com/PerryWerneck/pw3270

Safer than the government site Radoslaw posted, which my company's net nanny 
software prevented me from accessing because there are certificate problems.

Peter

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Radoslaw Skorupka
Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2021 11:13 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: And the survey says...

Advertisement:
Apart from x3270 family (wc3270, wx3270...) there is another *free* emulator.
It is pw3270
PW is Perry Werneck.
github.com/PerryWerneck/pw3270
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://softwarepublico.gov.br/social/pw3270/__;!!Ebr-cpPeAnfNniQ8HSAI-g_K5b7VKg!dpaA7q1qdSGtk8gMhBSNqPc1t_tsI6nwNUdS5YsYYDp7PetWBlyJPreC-fHXsIX6iFJ9nQ$
 

BTW: The last page is interesting - government official page with free software.

Of course I get 10% of purchase price ;-)

--

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and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader 
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communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication 
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Re: And the survey says...

[Radoslaw Skorupka]

Advertisement:
Apart from x3270 family (wc3270, wx3270...) there is another *free* 
emulator.

It is pw3270
PW is Perry Werneck.
github.com/PerryWerneck/pw3270
https://softwarepublico.gov.br/social/pw3270/

BTW: The last page is interesting - government official page with free 
software.


Of course I get 10% of purchase price ;-)

--
Radoslaw Skorupka
(looking for new job)
Lodz, Poland

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Re: And the survey says...

[Radoslaw Skorupka]

W dniu 27.04.2021 o 17:37, Pommier, Rex pisze:

I don't think HOD is a freebie any more.  IIRC, it got bundled together with 
PCOMM and is now chargeable.

Rex


Confirmed.
PCOMM is bundled with HOD for approx. 10 years or more.

--
Radoslaw Skorupka
(looking for new job)
Lodz, Poland

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Re: And the survey says...

[Seymour J Metz]

By native do you mean APA, or 2250 et al? The data streams manual does discuss 
APA. I don't know of any GGDM support for other than PSS and APA.

I checked bitsavers for 3179G and couldn't find it. If anybody still has the 
manual, please scan it. Thanks.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Greg Price [greg.pr...@optusnet.com.au]
Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2021 9:50 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: And the survey says...

On 28/04/2021 2:33 am, Seymour J Metz wrote:
> GDDM and PGF are the primary programs for 3270 graphics. I don't know whether 
> SAS Graph requires GDDM.

Well, I've coded programmed symbols and I've coded some native vector
graphics, but I don't know the protocols to code PC-LINK graphics. I
gather the latter is where the host offloads more of the work to the
workstation.

The spec for programmed symbols is documented in the 3270 Data Stream
Programmer's Reference, but for the other two you'd probably need to do
a VTAM trace of GDDM terminal I/O to figure out.

Native vector graphics used to be documented in the 3179G book, but that
disappeared after the 3179G was discontinued. (If anyone has one they'd
like to sell then please let me know.) I'd say it is very close to the
codes that GDDM uses itself internally.

If you have a 3270 graphics application that could be made to work with
GDDM then I'd recommend you do so because then you can let GDDM figure
out which graphics protocol to use for any given terminal and how to
convert your requests to the appropriate data stream orders.  I would
guess that SAS Graph would call GDDM, but that's just a guess.

I've "assisted" (badgered?) two TN3270 client authors in adding
programmed symbol graphics support to their products (really just
clarified the spec and provided testing feedback). One decided the
potential for support cases wasn't worth the effort/risk, and the other
(Nexus Terminal) has retained it in the product.

As someone said, Nexus is very fast, and the support is very responsive
to customers.

(Disclaimer: Both TN3270 client authors generously waived the fee to
allow me to use their products, both of which are of excellent quality.)

The REVIEW command (available from CBT and elsewhere - release 50 should
be coming out soon) has some code to render bitmaps (.BMP, .PCX, .GIF)
on 3270 graphics screens (LPS and native vector graphics only) without
using GDDM.  (GDDM will be called for PC-LINK.) Don't expect true-color
rendering. Haven't tested large pictures lately, but small ones work
pretty well AFAICT.

Cheers,
Greg

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Re: And the survey says...

[Pew, Curtis G]

On Apr 27, 2021, at 9:09 AM, Allan Staller 
<0387911dea17-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> 
> What 3270 emulator are you using?
> 

We use ZOC, and I’ve been very happy with it. I don’t use Windows, so many of 
the options aren’t available for me. I’ve used x3270 too, but it isn’t as 
Mac-like as ZOC.

We recently installed Virtel, which is a browser-based (HTTPS) server that runs 
on z/OS. For new users we now point them at that rather than install something 
on their desktop or laptop.


-- 
Pew, Curtis G
curtis@austin.utexas.edu






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Re: And the survey says...

[Greg Price]

On 28/04/2021 2:33 am, Seymour J Metz wrote:

GDDM and PGF are the primary programs for 3270 graphics. I don't know whether 
SAS Graph requires GDDM.


Well, I've coded programmed symbols and I've coded some native vector 
graphics, but I don't know the protocols to code PC-LINK graphics. I 
gather the latter is where the host offloads more of the work to the 
workstation.


The spec for programmed symbols is documented in the 3270 Data Stream 
Programmer's Reference, but for the other two you'd probably need to do 
a VTAM trace of GDDM terminal I/O to figure out.


Native vector graphics used to be documented in the 3179G book, but that 
disappeared after the 3179G was discontinued. (If anyone has one they'd 
like to sell then please let me know.) I'd say it is very close to the 
codes that GDDM uses itself internally.


If you have a 3270 graphics application that could be made to work with 
GDDM then I'd recommend you do so because then you can let GDDM figure 
out which graphics protocol to use for any given terminal and how to 
convert your requests to the appropriate data stream orders.  I would 
guess that SAS Graph would call GDDM, but that's just a guess.


I've "assisted" (badgered?) two TN3270 client authors in adding 
programmed symbol graphics support to their products (really just 
clarified the spec and provided testing feedback). One decided the 
potential for support cases wasn't worth the effort/risk, and the other 
(Nexus Terminal) has retained it in the product.


As someone said, Nexus is very fast, and the support is very responsive 
to customers.


(Disclaimer: Both TN3270 client authors generously waived the fee to 
allow me to use their products, both of which are of excellent quality.)


The REVIEW command (available from CBT and elsewhere - release 50 should 
be coming out soon) has some code to render bitmaps (.BMP, .PCX, .GIF) 
on 3270 graphics screens (LPS and native vector graphics only) without 
using GDDM.  (GDDM will be called for PC-LINK.) Don't expect true-color 
rendering. Haven't tested large pictures lately, but small ones work 
pretty well AFAICT.


Cheers,
Greg

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Re: And the survey says...

[Robert Prins]

On 2021-04-28 04:19, Tom Brennan wrote:
Blue color:  I've never been able to see blue (0,0,255) very well, so it might 
be more than just getting old.  I would watch other people having no trouble 
reading their blue text while I struggled.


Also have severe trouble with the "blue" "blue", my "blue" on Vista is 
120,144,240

Robert
--
Robert AH Prins
robert(a)prino(d)org
The hitchhiking grandfather - https://prino.neocities.org/indez.html
Some REXX code for use on z/OS - https://prino.neocities.org/zOS/zOS-Tools.html

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Re: And the survey says...

[Roger Sawtell]

I use Tom Brennan's Vista
but I'm supposed to use Attachmate (or whoever it is now) eXtra 'cos that's 
Corporate choice.
Good Luck choosing.
Roger

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Allan Staller
Sent: Wednesday, 28 April 2021 2:09 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: And the survey says...

Classification: Confidential

What 3270 emulator are you using?

I (and my colleagues) have been using PCOMM as our 3270 emulator by corporate 
edict.
Corporate has removed PCOMM from the available list of emulators, hence this 
survey (survey ends Fri. Apr 30 @ COB).

Since we have to go through a procurement process, we want to obtain the 
optimal product.
I am aware of the usual suspects and have them on my short list.

Responses can be posted on-list or directly to me.

Thanks to all in advance for your time and attention,




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Re: And the survey says...

[Brian Westerman]

Personally I like Vista, and I purchased my own copy because of that.  I also 
try to steer sites to it because it's reliable and easy to use.

Brian

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Re: And the survey says...

[Tom Brennan]

Blue color:  I've never been able to see blue (0,0,255) very well, so it 
might be more than just getting old.  I would watch other people having 
no trouble reading their blue text while I struggled.


On 4/27/2021 6:03 PM, Bob Bridges wrote:

Yeah, I would read a report, too, when you've collected enough information, 
please and thank you.

No one's mentioned Attachmate Extra!, which surprises me.  In the past six or 
seven clients I think I've used five or six different emulations.  I like Extra 
alright, and BlueZone, and Reflections.  For reasons I'm unable to quantify, 
one I like maybe better than those is QWS3270 by Jolly Giant.

The features I value most:


Keyboard mapping; I use Dvorak, but also change definitions quite a bit.



Programmability.  I don't need it often, but sometimes it enables me to do some 
arduous large data collection task that I can't find an API for otherwise.



Recently I've taken to modifying the colors a bit.  Maybe I'm just getting old, 
but the navy is too dark to read against black (so I lighten it a bit) and a 
white cursor nearly disappears against a green background (so I darken the 
green).


---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313

/* My new thesaurus is terrible.  My new thesaurus is also...terrible.  -Rand 
Bellavia */

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Grant Taylor
Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 12:21

I am very interested to see how people are responding.

I would also be curious to learn what different features that people use.  --  
I'm selfishly interested in terminal support of graphics.  I believe that's 
GDDM (?) on IBM mainframes.  Sixel and ReGIS graphics from DEC.  And the likes.

I'd be interested in reading a summary once the survey is complete.

--- On 4/27/21 8:09 AM, Allan Staller wrote:

What 3270 emulator are you using?


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Re: And the survey says...

[Bob Bridges]

Yeah, I would read a report, too, when you've collected enough information, 
please and thank you.

No one's mentioned Attachmate Extra!, which surprises me.  In the past six or 
seven clients I think I've used five or six different emulations.  I like Extra 
alright, and BlueZone, and Reflections.  For reasons I'm unable to quantify, 
one I like maybe better than those is QWS3270 by Jolly Giant.

The features I value most:

> Keyboard mapping; I use Dvorak, but also change definitions quite a bit.

> Programmability.  I don't need it often, but sometimes it enables me to do 
> some arduous large data collection task that I can't find an API for 
> otherwise.

> Recently I've taken to modifying the colors a bit.  Maybe I'm just getting 
> old, but the navy is too dark to read against black (so I lighten it a bit) 
> and a white cursor nearly disappears against a green background (so I darken 
> the green).

---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313

/* My new thesaurus is terrible.  My new thesaurus is also...terrible.  -Rand 
Bellavia */

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Grant Taylor
Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 12:21

I am very interested to see how people are responding.

I would also be curious to learn what different features that people use.  --  
I'm selfishly interested in terminal support of graphics.  I believe that's 
GDDM (?) on IBM mainframes.  Sixel and ReGIS graphics from DEC.  And the likes.

I'd be interested in reading a summary once the survey is complete.

--- On 4/27/21 8:09 AM, Allan Staller wrote:
> What 3270 emulator are you using?

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Re: And the survey says...

[A T & T Management]

 
I use x3270 on Linux and when it comes to a Windows I use WC3270 (samething) 
both free and nothing fancy but they do work.
With respect,Scott
On Tuesday, April 27, 2021, 5:43:43 PM EDT, Lou Losee  
wrote:  
 
 Vista 3270 by Tom Brennon - price is right and features are good.  Plus it
does what you want it to without searching forever in help text.

Lou
--
Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity
  - Unknown


On Tue, Apr 27, 2021 at 3:11 PM Gibney, Dave  wrote:

> We use QWS3270 Secure. I probably wish we'd found Vista 1st 
> Reflections was used in the past
> Also, Entire Connection from Software AG, but I can't recommend this
> pricey option unless you need the specific SAG product related functions.
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
> > Behalf Of Steve Horein
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 12:25 PM
> > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > Subject: Re: And the survey says...
> >
> > Doesn't seem to have been mentioned yet, but currently: QWS3270 from
> > JollyGiant
> > PCOMM when I worked for IBM.
> > Reflections before that.
> >
> > On Tue, Apr 27, 2021 at 9:10 AM Allan Staller <
> > 0387911dea17-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> >
> > > Classification: Confidential
> > >
> > > What 3270 emulator are you using?
> > >
> > > I (and my colleagues) have been using PCOMM as our 3270 emulator by
> > > corporate edict.
> > > Corporate has removed PCOMM from the available list of emulators, hence
> > > this survey (survey ends Fri. Apr 30 @ COB).
> > >
> > > Since we have to go through a procurement process, we want to obtain
> the
> > > optimal product.
> > > I am aware of the usual suspects and have them on my short list.
> > >
> > > Responses can be posted on-list or directly to me.
> > >
> > > Thanks to all in advance for your time and attention,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ::DISCLAIMER::
> > > 
> > > The contents of this e-mail and any attachment(s) are confidential and
> > > intended for the named recipient(s) only. E-mail transmission is not
> > > guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be
> intercepted,
> > > corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or may contain
> > > viruses in transmission. The e mail and its contents (with or without
> > > referred errors) shall therefore not attach any liability on the
> originator
> > > or HCL or its affiliates. Views or opinions, if any, presented in this
> > > email are solely those of the author and may not necessarily reflect
> the
> > > views or opinions of HCL or its affiliates. Any form of reproduction,
> > > dissemination, copying, disclosure, modification, distribution and / or
> > > publication of this message without the prior written consent of
> authorized
> > > representative of HCL is strictly prohibited. If you have received this
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Re: And the survey says...

[Lou Losee]

Vista 3270 by Tom Brennon - price is right and features are good.  Plus it
does what you want it to without searching forever in help text.

Lou
--
Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity
  - Unknown


On Tue, Apr 27, 2021 at 3:11 PM Gibney, Dave  wrote:

> We use QWS3270 Secure. I probably wish we'd found Vista 1st 
> Reflections was used in the past
> Also, Entire Connection from Software AG, but I can't recommend this
> pricey option unless you need the specific SAG product related functions.
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
> > Behalf Of Steve Horein
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 12:25 PM
> > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > Subject: Re: And the survey says...
> >
> > Doesn't seem to have been mentioned yet, but currently: QWS3270 from
> > JollyGiant
> > PCOMM when I worked for IBM.
> > Reflections before that.
> >
> > On Tue, Apr 27, 2021 at 9:10 AM Allan Staller <
> > 0387911dea17-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> >
> > > Classification: Confidential
> > >
> > > What 3270 emulator are you using?
> > >
> > > I (and my colleagues) have been using PCOMM as our 3270 emulator by
> > > corporate edict.
> > > Corporate has removed PCOMM from the available list of emulators, hence
> > > this survey (survey ends Fri. Apr 30 @ COB).
> > >
> > > Since we have to go through a procurement process, we want to obtain
> the
> > > optimal product.
> > > I am aware of the usual suspects and have them on my short list.
> > >
> > > Responses can be posted on-list or directly to me.
> > >
> > > Thanks to all in advance for your time and attention,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ::DISCLAIMER::
> > > 
> > > The contents of this e-mail and any attachment(s) are confidential and
> > > intended for the named recipient(s) only. E-mail transmission is not
> > > guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be
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> the
> > > views or opinions of HCL or its affiliates. Any form of reproduction,
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Re: And the survey says...

[Gibney, Dave]

We use QWS3270 Secure. I probably wish we'd found Vista 1st 
Reflections was used in the past
Also, Entire Connection from Software AG, but I can't recommend this pricey 
option unless you need the specific SAG product related functions.

> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
> Behalf Of Steve Horein
> Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 12:25 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: And the survey says...
> 
> Doesn't seem to have been mentioned yet, but currently: QWS3270 from
> JollyGiant
> PCOMM when I worked for IBM.
> Reflections before that.
> 
> On Tue, Apr 27, 2021 at 9:10 AM Allan Staller <
> 0387911dea17-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> 
> > Classification: Confidential
> >
> > What 3270 emulator are you using?
> >
> > I (and my colleagues) have been using PCOMM as our 3270 emulator by
> > corporate edict.
> > Corporate has removed PCOMM from the available list of emulators, hence
> > this survey (survey ends Fri. Apr 30 @ COB).
> >
> > Since we have to go through a procurement process, we want to obtain the
> > optimal product.
> > I am aware of the usual suspects and have them on my short list.
> >
> > Responses can be posted on-list or directly to me.
> >
> > Thanks to all in advance for your time and attention,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ::DISCLAIMER::
> > 
> > The contents of this e-mail and any attachment(s) are confidential and
> > intended for the named recipient(s) only. E-mail transmission is not
> > guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted,
> > corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or may contain
> > viruses in transmission. The e mail and its contents (with or without
> > referred errors) shall therefore not attach any liability on the originator
> > or HCL or its affiliates. Views or opinions, if any, presented in this
> > email are solely those of the author and may not necessarily reflect the
> > views or opinions of HCL or its affiliates. Any form of reproduction,
> > dissemination, copying, disclosure, modification, distribution and / or
> > publication of this message without the prior written consent of authorized
> > representative of HCL is strictly prohibited. If you have received this
> > email in error please delete it and notify the sender immediately. Before
> > opening any email and/or attachments, please check them for viruses and
> > other defects.
> > 
> >
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Re: And the survey says...

[Steve Horein]

Doesn't seem to have been mentioned yet, but currently: QWS3270 from
JollyGiant
PCOMM when I worked for IBM.
Reflections before that.

On Tue, Apr 27, 2021 at 9:10 AM Allan Staller <
0387911dea17-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> Classification: Confidential
>
> What 3270 emulator are you using?
>
> I (and my colleagues) have been using PCOMM as our 3270 emulator by
> corporate edict.
> Corporate has removed PCOMM from the available list of emulators, hence
> this survey (survey ends Fri. Apr 30 @ COB).
>
> Since we have to go through a procurement process, we want to obtain the
> optimal product.
> I am aware of the usual suspects and have them on my short list.
>
> Responses can be posted on-list or directly to me.
>
> Thanks to all in advance for your time and attention,
>
>
>
>
> ::DISCLAIMER::
> 
> The contents of this e-mail and any attachment(s) are confidential and
> intended for the named recipient(s) only. E-mail transmission is not
> guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted,
> corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or may contain
> viruses in transmission. The e mail and its contents (with or without
> referred errors) shall therefore not attach any liability on the originator
> or HCL or its affiliates. Views or opinions, if any, presented in this
> email are solely those of the author and may not necessarily reflect the
> views or opinions of HCL or its affiliates. Any form of reproduction,
> dissemination, copying, disclosure, modification, distribution and / or
> publication of this message without the prior written consent of authorized
> representative of HCL is strictly prohibited. If you have received this
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> opening any email and/or attachments, please check them for viruses and
> other defects.
> 
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Re: And the survey says...

[Don Leahy]

At our shop HOD is the standard, Pcomm is a supported alternative.   I use
Tom Brennan’s Vista.   My laptop is locked down, but I didn’t need Admin
rights to install it.  I expect at some point that I will get my wrist
slapped for using an “unapproved” software product, but as I get closer to
retirement I am caring less and less about that.

On Tue, Apr 27, 2021 at 12:33 Seymour J Metz  wrote:

> GDDM and PGF are the primary programs for 3270 graphics. I don't know
> whether SAS Graph requires GDDM.
>
>
> --
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
>
> 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf
> of Grant Taylor [023065957af1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 12:20 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: And the survey says...
>
> On 4/27/21 8:09 AM, Allan Staller wrote:
> > What 3270 emulator are you using?
>
> I'm using X3270 and / or it's console counterpart C3270 on Linux.
>
> I'm using a really old version of PCOMM as the master console (et al.)
> for my P/390-E on OS/2 Warp 4.
>
> > Since we have to go through a procurement process, we want to obtain
> > the optimal product.
>
> I would hope ~> expect that you will take the top contenders and test
> them in your environment for a while.  I don't know if this means an
> evaluation license or purchase licenses for a few people.
>
> > Responses can be posted on-list or directly to me.
>
> I am very interested to see how people are responding.
>
> I would also be curious to learn what different features that people
> use.  --  I'm selfishly interested in terminal support of graphics.  I
> believe that's GDDM (?) on IBM mainframes.  Sixel and ReGIS graphics
> from DEC.  And the likes.
>
> > Thanks to all in advance for your time and attention,
>
> :-)
>
> I'd be interested in reading a summary once the survey is complete.
>
>
>
> --
> Grant. . . .
> unix || die
>
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Re: And the survey says...

[René Jansen]

https://www.emtec.com/zoc/index.html

I have worked with a lot of them. This one does things right, I can put the 
enter key where it belongs, I can make it look like my tube used to look 
including colors and fonts, it implements cut and paste in a usable way, it 
handles fonts correctly (can use to stretch with window (ugh) or keep aspect 
ratio (yes!), and … important, its developers from germany are a pleasure to 
work with, and they respond quickly.

I go through great lengths to have it installed at customers’ sites; there is 
nothing worse than having to work with an emulator that pasts JCL or source the 
wrong way, or uses a webserver and shows you a black page every now and then. 
Or just looks the wrong way.

Best regards,

René 

> On 27 Apr 2021, at 16:48, Allan Staller 
> <0387911dea17-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> 
> Classification: Confidential
> 
> ZOC? Can you elaborate?
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
> René Jansen
> Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 9:47 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: And the survey says...
> 
> [CAUTION: This Email is from outside the Organization. Unless you trust the 
> sender, Don’t click links or open attachments as it may be a Phishing email, 
> which can steal your Information and compromise your Computer.]
> 
> I’ve got two licenses for ZOC, one for Mac and one for Windows. It is 
> Rexx-scriptable.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> René Jansen.
> 
>> On 27 Apr 2021, at 16:34, Bill Johnson 
>> <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>> 
>> Reflection.
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>> 
>> 
>> On Tuesday, April 27, 2021, 10:09 AM, Allan Staller 
>> <0387911dea17-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>> 
>> Classification: Confidential
>> 
>> What 3270 emulator are you using?
>> 
>> I (and my colleagues) have been using PCOMM as our 3270 emulator by 
>> corporate edict.
>> Corporate has removed PCOMM from the available list of emulators, hence this 
>> survey (survey ends Fri. Apr 30 @ COB).
>> 
>> Since we have to go through a procurement process, we want to obtain the 
>> optimal product.
>> I am aware of the usual suspects and have them on my short list.
>> 
>> Responses can be posted on-list or directly to me.
>> 
>> Thanks to all in advance for your time and attention,
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ::DISCLAIMER::
>> 
>> The contents of this e-mail and any attachment(s) are confidential and 
>> intended for the named recipient(s) only. E-mail transmission is not 
>> guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, 
>> corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or may contain 
>> viruses in transmission. The e mail and its contents (with or without 
>> referred errors) shall therefore not attach any liability on the originator 
>> or HCL or its affiliates. Views or opinions, if any, presented in this email 
>> are solely those of the author and may not necessarily reflect the views or 
>> opinions of HCL or its affiliates. Any form of reproduction, dissemination, 
>> copying, disclosure, modification, distribution and / or publication of this 
>> message without the prior written consent of authorized representative of 
>> HCL is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please 
>> delete it and notify the sender immediately. Before opening any email and/or 
>> attachments, please check them for viruses and other defects.
>> 
>> 
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Re: And the survey says...

[Seymour J Metz]

GDDM and PGF are the primary programs for 3270 graphics. I don't know whether 
SAS Graph requires GDDM.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Grant Taylor [023065957af1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 12:20 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: And the survey says...

On 4/27/21 8:09 AM, Allan Staller wrote:
> What 3270 emulator are you using?

I'm using X3270 and / or it's console counterpart C3270 on Linux.

I'm using a really old version of PCOMM as the master console (et al.)
for my P/390-E on OS/2 Warp 4.

> Since we have to go through a procurement process, we want to obtain
> the optimal product.

I would hope ~> expect that you will take the top contenders and test
them in your environment for a while.  I don't know if this means an
evaluation license or purchase licenses for a few people.

> Responses can be posted on-list or directly to me.

I am very interested to see how people are responding.

I would also be curious to learn what different features that people
use.  --  I'm selfishly interested in terminal support of graphics.  I
believe that's GDDM (?) on IBM mainframes.  Sixel and ReGIS graphics
from DEC.  And the likes.

> Thanks to all in advance for your time and attention,

:-)

I'd be interested in reading a summary once the survey is complete.



--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

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Re: And the survey says...

[Grant Taylor]

On 4/27/21 8:09 AM, Allan Staller wrote:

What 3270 emulator are you using?


I'm using X3270 and / or it's console counterpart C3270 on Linux.

I'm using a really old version of PCOMM as the master console (et al.) 
for my P/390-E on OS/2 Warp 4.


Since we have to go through a procurement process, we want to obtain 
the optimal product.


I would hope ~> expect that you will take the top contenders and test 
them in your environment for a while.  I don't know if this means an 
evaluation license or purchase licenses for a few people.



Responses can be posted on-list or directly to me.


I am very interested to see how people are responding.

I would also be curious to learn what different features that people 
use.  --  I'm selfishly interested in terminal support of graphics.  I 
believe that's GDDM (?) on IBM mainframes.  Sixel and ReGIS graphics 
from DEC.  And the likes.



Thanks to all in advance for your time and attention,


:-)

I'd be interested in reading a summary once the survey is complete.



--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

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Re: RES: And the survey says...

[Robert Prins]

Another vote for Tom Brennan's Vista TN3270

Robert
--
Robert AH Prins
robert.ah.prins(a)gmail.com
The hitchhiking grandfather - https://prino.neocities.org/
Some REXX code for use on z/OS - https://prino.neocities.org/zOS/zOS-Tools.html

On 2021-04-27 14:20, Bodra - Pessoal wrote:

Vista TN3270 by Tom Brennan


Carlos Bodra
IBM zEnterprise Certified
São Paulo – SP – Brazil


-Mensagem original-
De: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  Em nome de Allan
Staller
Enviada em: terça-feira, 27 de abril de 2021 11:09
Para: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Assunto: And the survey says...

Classification: Confidential

What 3270 emulator are you using?

I (and my colleagues) have been using PCOMM as our 3270 emulator by corporate
edict.
Corporate has removed PCOMM from the available list of emulators, hence this
survey (survey ends Fri. Apr 30 @ COB).

Since we have to go through a procurement process, we want to obtain the optimal
product.
I am aware of the usual suspects and have them on my short list.

Responses can be posted on-list or directly to me.

Thanks to all in advance for your time and attention,


--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
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Re: RES: And the survey says...

[W Mainframe]

Vista is perfect, but x3270 is widely used mainly it runs in different OSes... 
Useful!But what I really love is my IBM 3476 as a 9401-150 terminal (OS/400) 
emulating a 3270 session... The keyboard noise sounds like Chopin!
Dan


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Tuesday, April 27, 2021, 11:19 AM, Bodra - Pessoal 
<02eda2bc565a-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

Vista TN3270 by Tom Brennan


Carlos Bodra
IBM zEnterprise Certified
São Paulo – SP – Brazil


-Mensagem original-
De: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  Em nome de Allan
Staller
Enviada em: terça-feira, 27 de abril de 2021 11:09
Para: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Assunto: And the survey says...

Classification: Confidential

What 3270 emulator are you using?

I (and my colleagues) have been using PCOMM as our 3270 emulator by corporate
edict.
Corporate has removed PCOMM from the available list of emulators, hence this
survey (survey ends Fri. Apr 30 @ COB).

Since we have to go through a procurement process, we want to obtain the optimal
product.
I am aware of the usual suspects and have them on my short list.

Responses can be posted on-list or directly to me.

Thanks to all in advance for your time and attention,




::DISCLAIMER::

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The e mail and its contents (with or without referred errors) shall therefore
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not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of HCL or its affiliates. Any form
of reproduction, dissemination, copying, disclosure, modification, distribution
and / or publication of this message without the prior written consent of
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Re: And the survey says...

[Pommier, Rex]

I don't think HOD is a freebie any more.  IIRC, it got bundled together with 
PCOMM and is now chargeable.

Rex

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Carmen Vitullo
Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 10:22 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [External] Re: And the survey says...

x3270 I had installed on my personal PC, it did everything I needed, HOD I 
think is still a freebee, for us the Java requirement was a security issue, and 
it was removed as an options, thus FLYNET  
   
Carmen Vitullo 

   

-Original Message-

From: Seymour 
To: IBM-MAIN 
Date: Tuesday, 27 April 2021 10:08 AM CDT
Subject: Re: And the survey says...

If the issue is price then there's always x3270, which is free. I'm not sure 
whether HOD is chargeable. 

If the issue is not price, it might help to give your requirements for a 3270 
simulator. 


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Allan Staller [0387911dea17-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 10:09 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: And the survey says... 

Classification: Confidential 

What 3270 emulator are you using? 

I (and my colleagues) have been using PCOMM as our 3270 emulator by corporate 
edict. 
Corporate has removed PCOMM from the available list of emulators, hence this 
survey (survey ends Fri. Apr 30 @ COB). 

Since we have to go through a procurement process, we want to obtain the 
optimal product. 
I am aware of the usual suspects and have them on my short list. 

Responses can be posted on-list or directly to me. 

Thanks to all in advance for your time and attention, 




::DISCLAIMER:: 

The contents of this e-mail and any attachment(s) are confidential and intended 
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Re: And the survey says...

[Radoslaw Skorupka]

My list:

1. PCOMM. IMHO the best, but also the most expensive.
2. Nexus. Norwegian product. The fastest one (if it's important), very 
small (1,5MB), cheap.

3. wc3270 or wx3270. Free.


BTW: there are over 40 emulators. Two free of charge, few supporting 
Linux or Mac.
Prices depend on number of licences, price for 1 piece vary from 340$ to 
10$.


--
Radoslaw Skorupka
(looking for new job)
Lodz, Poland





W dniu 27.04.2021 o 16:09, Allan Staller pisze:

Classification: Confidential

What 3270 emulator are you using?

I (and my colleagues) have been using PCOMM as our 3270 emulator by corporate 
edict.
Corporate has removed PCOMM from the available list of emulators, hence this 
survey (survey ends Fri. Apr 30 @ COB).

Since we have to go through a procurement process, we want to obtain the 
optimal product.
I am aware of the usual suspects and have them on my short list.

Responses can be posted on-list or directly to me.

Thanks to all in advance for your time and attention,





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Re: And the survey says...

[Michael Babcock]

Bluezone.

On Tue, Apr 27, 2021 at 9:10 AM Allan Staller <
0387911dea17-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> Classification: Confidential
>
> What 3270 emulator are you using?
>
> I (and my colleagues) have been using PCOMM as our 3270 emulator by
> corporate edict.
> Corporate has removed PCOMM from the available list of emulators, hence
> this survey (survey ends Fri. Apr 30 @ COB).
>
> Since we have to go through a procurement process, we want to obtain the
> optimal product.
> I am aware of the usual suspects and have them on my short list.
>
> Responses can be posted on-list or directly to me.
>
> Thanks to all in advance for your time and attention,
>
>
>
>
> ::DISCLAIMER::
> 
> The contents of this e-mail and any attachment(s) are confidential and
> intended for the named recipient(s) only. E-mail transmission is not
> guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted,
> corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or may contain
> viruses in transmission. The e mail and its contents (with or without
> referred errors) shall therefore not attach any liability on the originator
> or HCL or its affiliates. Views or opinions, if any, presented in this
> email are solely those of the author and may not necessarily reflect the
> views or opinions of HCL or its affiliates. Any form of reproduction,
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> other defects.
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-- 
Michael Babcock
OneMain Financial
z/OS Systems Programmer, Lead

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Re: And the survey says...

[esst...@juno.com]

We use PCOMM and Tom Brennan's Vista - excellant product Paul D'Angelo

-- Original Message --
From: Allan Staller <0387911dea17-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: And the survey says...
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2021 14:09:25 +

Classification: Confidential

What 3270 emulator are you using?

I (and my colleagues) have been using PCOMM as our 3270 emulator by corporate 
edict.
Corporate has removed PCOMM from the available list of emulators, hence this 
survey (survey ends Fri. Apr 30 @ COB).

Since we have to go through a procurement process, we want to obtain the 
optimal product.
I am aware of the usual suspects and have them on my short list.

Responses can be posted on-list or directly to me.

Thanks to all in advance for your time and attention,




::DISCLAIMER::

The contents of this e-mail and any attachment(s) are confidential and intended 
for the named recipient(s) only. E-mail transmission is not guaranteed to be 
secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, 
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The e mail and its contents (with or without referred errors) shall therefore 
not attach any liability on the originator or HCL or its affiliates. Views or 
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may not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of HCL or its affiliates. Any 
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Re: And the survey says...

[Al Loeffler]

Vista TN3270 by Tom Brennan

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of
Allan Staller
Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 10:09 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: And the survey says...

Classification: Confidential

What 3270 emulator are you using?

I (and my colleagues) have been using PCOMM as our 3270 emulator by
corporate edict.
Corporate has removed PCOMM from the available list of emulators, hence this
survey (survey ends Fri. Apr 30 @ COB).

Since we have to go through a procurement process, we want to obtain the
optimal product.
I am aware of the usual suspects and have them on my short list.

Responses can be posted on-list or directly to me.

Thanks to all in advance for your time and attention,




::DISCLAIMER::

The contents of this e-mail and any attachment(s) are confidential and
intended for the named recipient(s) only. E-mail transmission is not
guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted,
corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or may contain
viruses in transmission. The e mail and its contents (with or without
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or HCL or its affiliates. Views or opinions, if any, presented in this email
are solely those of the author and may not necessarily reflect the views or
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HCL is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please
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Re: And the survey says...

[Carmen Vitullo]

x3270 I had installed on my personal PC, it did everything I needed, HOD I 
think is still a freebee, for us the Java requirement was a security issue, and 
it was removed as an options, thus FLYNET  
   
Carmen Vitullo 

   

-Original Message-

From: Seymour 
To: IBM-MAIN 
Date: Tuesday, 27 April 2021 10:08 AM CDT
Subject: Re: And the survey says...

If the issue is price then there's always x3270, which is free. I'm not sure 
whether HOD is chargeable. 

If the issue is not price, it might help to give your requirements for a 3270 
simulator. 


-- 
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz 
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 

 
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Allan Staller [0387911dea17-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu] 
Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 10:09 AM 
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Subject: And the survey says... 

Classification: Confidential 

What 3270 emulator are you using? 

I (and my colleagues) have been using PCOMM as our 3270 emulator by corporate 
edict. 
Corporate has removed PCOMM from the available list of emulators, hence this 
survey (survey ends Fri. Apr 30 @ COB). 

Since we have to go through a procurement process, we want to obtain the 
optimal product. 
I am aware of the usual suspects and have them on my short list. 

Responses can be posted on-list or directly to me. 

Thanks to all in advance for your time and attention, 




::DISCLAIMER:: 
 
The contents of this e-mail and any attachment(s) are confidential and intended 
for the named recipient(s) only. E-mail transmission is not guaranteed to be 
secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, 
destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or may contain viruses in transmission. 
The e mail and its contents (with or without referred errors) shall therefore 
not attach any liability on the originator or HCL or its affiliates. Views or 
opinions, if any, presented in this email are solely those of the author and 
may not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of HCL or its affiliates. Any 
form of reproduction, dissemination, copying, disclosure, modification, 
distribution and / or publication of this message without the prior written 
consent of authorized representative of HCL is strictly prohibited. If you have 
received this email in error please delete it and notify the sender 
immediately. Before opening any email and/or attachments, please check them for 
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Re: And the survey says...

[Seymour J Metz]

If the issue is price then there's always x3270, which is free. I'm not sure 
whether HOD is chargeable.

If the issue is not price, it might help to give your requirements for a 3270 
simulator.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Allan Staller [0387911dea17-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 10:09 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: And the survey says...

Classification: Confidential

What 3270 emulator are you using?

I (and my colleagues) have been using PCOMM as our 3270 emulator by corporate 
edict.
Corporate has removed PCOMM from the available list of emulators, hence this 
survey (survey ends Fri. Apr 30 @ COB).

Since we have to go through a procurement process, we want to obtain the 
optimal product.
I am aware of the usual suspects and have them on my short list.

Responses can be posted on-list or directly to me.

Thanks to all in advance for your time and attention,




::DISCLAIMER::

The contents of this e-mail and any attachment(s) are confidential and intended 
for the named recipient(s) only. E-mail transmission is not guaranteed to be 
secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, 
destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or may contain viruses in transmission. 
The e mail and its contents (with or without referred errors) shall therefore 
not attach any liability on the originator or HCL or its affiliates. Views or 
opinions, if any, presented in this email are solely those of the author and 
may not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of HCL or its affiliates. Any 
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Re: And the survey says...

[Mark Jacobs]

https://www.emtec.com/zoc/

Sent from ProtonMail, Swiss-based encrypted email.

GPG Public Key - 
https://api.protonmail.ch/pks/lookup?op=get=markjac...@protonmail.com

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On Tuesday, April 27th, 2021 at 10:48 AM, Allan Staller 
<0387911dea17-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> Classification: Confidential
>
> ZOC? Can you elaborate?
>
> -Original Message-
>
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU On Behalf Of 
> René Jansen
>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 9:47 AM
>
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>
> Subject: Re: And the survey says...
>
> [CAUTION: This Email is from outside the Organization. Unless you trust the 
> sender, Don’t click links or open attachments as it may be a Phishing email, 
> which can steal your Information and compromise your Computer.]
>
> I’ve got two licenses for ZOC, one for Mac and one for Windows. It is 
> Rexx-scriptable.
>
> Best regards,
>
> René Jansen.
>
> > On 27 Apr 2021, at 16:34, Bill Johnson 
> > 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu wrote:
> >
> > Reflection.
> >
> > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> >
> > On Tuesday, April 27, 2021, 10:09 AM, Allan Staller 
> > 0387911dea17-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu wrote:
> >
> > Classification: Confidential
> >
> > What 3270 emulator are you using?
> >
> > I (and my colleagues) have been using PCOMM as our 3270 emulator by 
> > corporate edict.
> >
> > Corporate has removed PCOMM from the available list of emulators, hence 
> > this survey (survey ends Fri. Apr 30 @ COB).
> >
> > Since we have to go through a procurement process, we want to obtain the 
> > optimal product.
> >
> > I am aware of the usual suspects and have them on my short list.
> >
> > Responses can be posted on-list or directly to me.
> >
> > Thanks to all in advance for your time and attention,
> >
> > ::DISCLAIMER::
> >
> > The contents of this e-mail and any attachment(s) are confidential and 
> > intended for the named recipient(s) only. E-mail transmission is not 
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> > corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or may contain 
> > viruses in transmission. The e mail and its contents (with or without 
> > referred errors) shall therefore not attach any liability on the originator 
> > or HCL or its affiliates. Views or opinions, if any, presented in this 
> > email are solely those of the author and may not necessarily reflect the 
> > views or opinions of HCL or its affiliates. Any form of reproduction, 
> > dissemination, copying, disclosure, modification, distribution and / or 
> > publication of this message without the prior written consent of authorized 
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> > opening any email and/or attachments, please check them for viruses and 
> > other defects.
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Re: And the survey says...

[Pommier, Rex]

We use Passport.  We have a limited number of licenses for the full client that 
the systems group uses and the rest of the company uses the web client.  I 
personally like the full client but don't like the web one, but that may be the 
way the admins of the web client have it configured.

Rex

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Allan Staller
Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 9:09 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [External] And the survey says...

Classification: Confidential

What 3270 emulator are you using?

I (and my colleagues) have been using PCOMM as our 3270 emulator by corporate 
edict.
Corporate has removed PCOMM from the available list of emulators, hence this 
survey (survey ends Fri. Apr 30 @ COB).

Since we have to go through a procurement process, we want to obtain the 
optimal product.
I am aware of the usual suspects and have them on my short list.

Responses can be posted on-list or directly to me.

Thanks to all in advance for your time and attention,




::DISCLAIMER::

The contents of this e-mail and any attachment(s) are confidential and intended 
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The e mail and its contents (with or without referred errors) shall therefore 
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may not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of HCL or its affiliates. Any 
form of reproduction, dissemination, copying, disclosure, modification, 
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Re: And the survey says...

[Allan Staller]

Classification: Confidential

ZOC? Can you elaborate?


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
René Jansen
Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 9:47 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: And the survey says...

[CAUTION: This Email is from outside the Organization. Unless you trust the 
sender, Don’t click links or open attachments as it may be a Phishing email, 
which can steal your Information and compromise your Computer.]

I’ve got two licenses for ZOC, one for Mac and one for Windows. It is 
Rexx-scriptable.

Best regards,

René Jansen.

> On 27 Apr 2021, at 16:34, Bill Johnson 
> <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> Reflection.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Tuesday, April 27, 2021, 10:09 AM, Allan Staller 
> <0387911dea17-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> Classification: Confidential
>
> What 3270 emulator are you using?
>
> I (and my colleagues) have been using PCOMM as our 3270 emulator by corporate 
> edict.
> Corporate has removed PCOMM from the available list of emulators, hence this 
> survey (survey ends Fri. Apr 30 @ COB).
>
> Since we have to go through a procurement process, we want to obtain the 
> optimal product.
> I am aware of the usual suspects and have them on my short list.
>
> Responses can be posted on-list or directly to me.
>
> Thanks to all in advance for your time and attention,
>
>
>
>
> ::DISCLAIMER::
> 
> The contents of this e-mail and any attachment(s) are confidential and 
> intended for the named recipient(s) only. E-mail transmission is not 
> guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, 
> corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or may contain viruses 
> in transmission. The e mail and its contents (with or without referred 
> errors) shall therefore not attach any liability on the originator or HCL or 
> its affiliates. Views or opinions, if any, presented in this email are solely 
> those of the author and may not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of 
> HCL or its affiliates. Any form of reproduction, dissemination, copying, 
> disclosure, modification, distribution and / or publication of this message 
> without the prior written consent of authorized representative of HCL is 
> strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please delete 
> it and notify the sender immediately. Before opening any email and/or 
> attachments, please check them for viruses and other defects.
> 
>
> --
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Re: And the survey says...

[René Jansen]

I’ve got two licenses for ZOC, one for Mac and one for Windows. It is 
Rexx-scriptable.

Best regards,

René Jansen.

> On 27 Apr 2021, at 16:34, Bill Johnson 
> <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> 
> Reflection.
> 
> 
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> 
> 
> On Tuesday, April 27, 2021, 10:09 AM, Allan Staller 
> <0387911dea17-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> 
> Classification: Confidential
> 
> What 3270 emulator are you using?
> 
> I (and my colleagues) have been using PCOMM as our 3270 emulator by corporate 
> edict.
> Corporate has removed PCOMM from the available list of emulators, hence this 
> survey (survey ends Fri. Apr 30 @ COB).
> 
> Since we have to go through a procurement process, we want to obtain the 
> optimal product.
> I am aware of the usual suspects and have them on my short list.
> 
> Responses can be posted on-list or directly to me.
> 
> Thanks to all in advance for your time and attention,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ::DISCLAIMER::
> 
> The contents of this e-mail and any attachment(s) are confidential and 
> intended for the named recipient(s) only. E-mail transmission is not 
> guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, 
> corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or may contain viruses 
> in transmission. The e mail and its contents (with or without referred 
> errors) shall therefore not attach any liability on the originator or HCL or 
> its affiliates. Views or opinions, if any, presented in this email are solely 
> those of the author and may not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of 
> HCL or its affiliates. Any form of reproduction, dissemination, copying, 
> disclosure, modification, distribution and / or publication of this message 
> without the prior written consent of authorized representative of HCL is 
> strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please delete 
> it and notify the sender immediately. Before opening any email and/or 
> attachments, please check them for viruses and other defects.
> 
> 
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Re: And the survey says...

[Bill Johnson]

Reflection.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Tuesday, April 27, 2021, 10:09 AM, Allan Staller 
<0387911dea17-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

Classification: Confidential

What 3270 emulator are you using?

I (and my colleagues) have been using PCOMM as our 3270 emulator by corporate 
edict.
Corporate has removed PCOMM from the available list of emulators, hence this 
survey (survey ends Fri. Apr 30 @ COB).

Since we have to go through a procurement process, we want to obtain the 
optimal product.
I am aware of the usual suspects and have them on my short list.

Responses can be posted on-list or directly to me.

Thanks to all in advance for your time and attention,




::DISCLAIMER::

The contents of this e-mail and any attachment(s) are confidential and intended 
for the named recipient(s) only. E-mail transmission is not guaranteed to be 
secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, 
destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or may contain viruses in transmission. 
The e mail and its contents (with or without referred errors) shall therefore 
not attach any liability on the originator or HCL or its affiliates. Views or 
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may not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of HCL or its affiliates. Any 
form of reproduction, dissemination, copying, disclosure, modification, 
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received this email in error please delete it and notify the sender 
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Re: And the survey says...

[David Purdy]

Rumba was selected by our workstation support team, without any mainframe staff 
input.Replaced PCOMM, if memory serves.

David


-Original Message-
From: Baumgarte, Randall 
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Sent: Tue, Apr 27, 2021 10:16 am
Subject: Re: And the survey says...

I've used multiple ones. In my opinion, nothing is better than Vista TN3270 by 
Tom Brennan. Simple, small, & lots of features. The only two things I wish it 
had was support for tabs and a Linux version.

The next best is just an x3270 session (running under Cygwin if you're stuck on 
Windows).



-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Allan Staller
Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 10:09 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: And the survey says...

This message was sent from an external source outside of Western & Southern's 
network. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender 
and know the contents are safe.


Classification: Confidential

What 3270 emulator are you using?

I (and my colleagues) have been using PCOMM as our 3270 emulator by corporate 
edict.
Corporate has removed PCOMM from the available list of emulators, hence this 
survey (survey ends Fri. Apr 30 @ COB).

Since we have to go through a procurement process, we want to obtain the 
optimal product.
I am aware of the usual suspects and have them on my short list.

Responses can be posted on-list or directly to me.

Thanks to all in advance for your time and attention,




::DISCLAIMER::

The contents of this e-mail and any attachment(s) are confidential and intended 
for the named recipient(s) only. E-mail transmission is not guaranteed to be 
secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, 
destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or may contain viruses in transmission. 
The e mail and its contents (with or without referred errors) shall therefore 
not attach any liability on the originator or HCL or its affiliates. Views or 
opinions, if any, presented in this email are solely those of the author and 
may not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of HCL or its affiliates. Any 
form of reproduction, dissemination, copying, disclosure, modification, 
distribution and / or publication of this message without the prior written 
consent of authorized representative of HCL is strictly prohibited. If you have 
received this email in error please delete it and notify the sender 
immediately. Before opening any email and/or attachments, please check them for 
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