RE: Templating Solutions

[Cross David - dcross]

From: David Cantrell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 10:51 AM

> On Tue, Jun 19, 2001 at 10:20:37AM +0100, Steve Purkis wrote:
> > David Cantrell wrote:
> > > 
> > > Seriously, I agree 100% that you should strive to seperate application
> > > from your presentation as much as possible, but seeing that you can
not
> > > do this entirely, you may as well embed perl in your HTML and save
> > > yourself the trouble of inventing a whole new wheel.
> > 
> > That sounds like a contradictory statement there
> 
> I don't think so.  Whilst you should seperate application and presentation
> as much as possible, it's a recognition that you'll never be able to
> *entirely* seperate them, and so seeing that you're going to have to have
> *some* code mixed in with your presentation, you may as well re-use an
> existing language instead of inventing a new one.

But as Richard wrote yesterday, the point of mini-languages like the TT2
language is that they are specialised for one particular process[1]

In the case of TT2, you can write logic in it, but it's only very simple
presentaional logic (output one of these blocks for each thing in this list,
for example).

Another good reason, is that the people designing the output format aren't
necessarily the same people that write the data-gathering application. With
TT2 you can have a team of highly skilled and highly paid Perl programmers
doing extremely clever things to gather the data and a larger team of lowly
paid template designers producing the XML, HTML or whatever templates you
need to output the data. You can learn the TT2 language in an afternoon.
Perl, thankfully, takes a little longer.

Dave...

[1] You don't, for example, object to writing regexes in a mini-language
within Perl.

-- 



The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

e-smith

[Cross David - dcross]

Tangentially on-topic for this list because of skud's involvement...

I see that the new edtion of Linux Format comes with a copy of e-smith on
the CD. According to the blurb, e-smith is a "complete, easy to use and
install server/gateway system" that "manages mail, firewalling,
file-sharing, prinintg - everything you need from your server".

And if my memory isn't letting me down completely, skud will be giving a
talk on e-smith at YAPC::E.

Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

Government Websites

[Cross David - dcross]

Tired of government websites that only cater for browsers with non-standard
proprietary extensions (cf . Don't jsut sit there
complaining - do something positive about it!



Dave...
[who won't be applying for the job]

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

RE: early peek at a bit of fun

[Cross David - dcross]

From: Philip Newton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2001 7:33 AM

> Dave Cross wrote:
> > On Fri, Jun 15, 2001 at 11:53:30PM +0200, Paul Johnson 
> > ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> > > I'll have to be an honourary member since I'm in Switzerland
> > > at the moment
> > 
> > That's just down the road in comparison to some of the people that 
> > consider themselves members of london.pm :)
> 
> Who holds the distance record? dha, presumably?
> 
> (I suppose Simon Cozens had him beat while he was in Japan, but was he
part
> of London.pm then? I think he is now.)

Last I heard, we had at least one subscriber currently living in Australia.

Leon, how about a london.pm world map :)

Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

RE: *Buffy's Not Included

[Cross David - dcross]

From: Robert Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 9:25 AM

> Sorry to go off topic...
> 
> I was wondering what the pro's and con's are of using XML to structure
ASCII
> based data files.
> 
> What are peoples experience of using XML - particularly where you may have
> to trawl through lots of files to get at the data you want?
>
>Ta muchly in advance for any info or pointers

I notice that a new Perl/XML web page has just appeared:

http://www.xmlperl.com/

Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

YAPC::Europe Registration

[Cross David - dcross]

I see that registration for YAPC::Europe has opened.



They've also accepted both my "Perl for the People" and "Creating Data
Output Files Using the Template Toolkit" talks :)

Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

Tie::Hash::Cannabinol

[Cross David - dcross]

Once an idea gets into my head, the only way to shake it off is to go away
and write it :)

Dave...

package Tie::Hash::Cannabinol;

use strict;
use vars qw($VERSION @ISA @EXPORT @EXPORT_OK);

require Exporter;
require Tie::Hash;

@ISA = qw(Exporter Tie::StdHash);
@EXPORT = qw();
@EXPORT_OK =();

$VERSION = '0.01';

sub FETCH {
  my $self = shift;

  my @keys = keys %$self;

  return $self->{$keys[rand $#keys]};
}

sub EXISTS {
  return rand > 0.5;
}

1;
__END__

=head1 NAME

Tie::Hash::Cannabinol - A hash on hash!

=head1 SYNOPSIS

  use Tie::Hash::Cannabinol;
  my %h;

  tie %h, 'Tie::Hash::Cannabinol';

=head1 DESCRIPTION

The idea of writing a tied hash called T::H::C was just too good to ignore.

You can store values in this hash just as you would a normal hash, but
when you ask for a value back, you get any random value from the hash.

The C function isn't really to be trusted either :)

=head1 AUTHOR

Dave Cross <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

=head1 SEE ALSO

perl(1).

perltie(1).

=cut


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

RE: TPC Travel

[Cross David - dcross]

From: Leon Brocard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 3:20 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: TPC Travel

> Cross David - dcross sent the following bits through the ether:
> 
> > I booked my TPC flights yesterday. If anyone fancies joining me, the
> > flight details are:
> 
> Hey, groovy, you can join Simon and me on a drive down to crazy
> Mexico. We'll pick up beer, chicks and crazy Mexican guitar-playing
> people. Just remember to bring a stake just in case we happen to bump
> into a vampire-filled bar...

Cool. When are you doing that? Sunday?

Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

TPC Travel

[Cross David - dcross]

I booked my TPC flights yesterday. If anyone fancies joining me, the flight
details are:

21st Jul BA 2275 LGW 11:15 -> SAN 14:20
28th Jul BA 2274 SAN 16:40 -> LGW 11:00 (+1)

Cost me £660, but I notice that this morning Ebookers are showing only £1200
seats left on those flights :(

Dave...

p.s. Oh, and I'm staying in the East Tower of the Sheraton.

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

RE: BUFFY - SPOILERS , DO NOT READ IF YOU HAVE NOT SEEN SKY 1 LAST NIGHT

[Cross David - dcross]

From: Greg McCarroll <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 10:43 AM

[there are actually no spoliers left in this post so I'm removing the
spoiler space]

> i'm a little worried that the next season will suck.
> lets wait and see if the warning signs are there, more
> weird settings i.e. they all get sucked into the
> movie casablanca and the episode is entirely in black
> and white, guest appearances from other shows/from
> major celebrities.

Apparently they're planning a musical episode[1]

Dave...

[1] This is not a joke!

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

RE: General Election

[Cross David - dcross]

From: Barbie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 3:56 PM

[The Red Flag]

> > There's a fine version of it to this tune by Billy Bragg and Dick Gaughn
> > on BB's mini-album "The Internationale".
> >
> > If you haven't tracked down an mp3 by next week, remind me and I'll play
> > it to you.
> 
> Have it on virgin vinyl with free limited edition 7" thanks :)

Ooh. Shiny! What's on the 7"?

Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

RE: crazy golf

[Cross David - dcross]

From: Paul Mison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 1:28 PM

> On 01/06/2001 at 13:16 +0100, Cross David - dcross wrote:
> >
> >Whatever happened to the plan to do away with that nasty socialist
holiday
> >on Mayday and replace with something much more Jingoistic - Trafalgar Day
> >wasn't it?
> 
> Um. Bad example. Unfortunately May Day is at a *really* silly point,
> coming just after Easter and just before the 'Early Summer' (aka
> Whitsun) Bank Holiday. 

No. _Good_ example. Neatly demonstrating the madness of baseing public
holidays around the vagaries of a minority religion. It's not Mayday that's
causing a problem here, but the three xtian dates. Abolish them and replace
them with three other holidays spaced out in a more sensible fashion.

Besides, people have been celebrating Mayday for _far_ longer than Easter.

> Anyway, Trafalgar Day would be in October- that's a shite idea, the
> weather's awful. We [0] want June and July holidays how about US
> Independence Day? We've imported plenty of other ideas from them. Hmm.

I wouldn't mind a holiday in late September or October. Thanks to global
warming that's often a pretty warm part of the year.

Actually, celebrating US Independence Day makes a certain amount of sense.
It's certainly a war _I'd_ have fought to lose :)

> Or make the Queen's Birthday celebrations be on a Monday and make that
> a bank holiday, if you have to wrap things up in pageantry.

Only a very short term solution. What do you do when we become a republic?
(checks - wait a minute, that pledge seems to be missing from my copy of the
Labour Manifesto, shurely shome mishtake)

> (Isn't there an extra bank holiday next year for Golden Jubilee
shenanigans?)

$deity, don't remind me. As mentioned on the walk on Monday, I think our
best hope is that the QM[1] dies at about the same time and it all cancels
out :)

Dave...

[1] "But you've got to admit, she does look good for her age." Yeah, well so
would I if I HADN'T DONE A FUCKING DECENT DAY'S WORK IN MY LIFE.

-- 



The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

RE: LCN June

[Cross David - dcross]

From: Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 12:31 PM

> London PM have two meetings this month, the usual social meeting and a
> technical meeting. The social meeting is on 7th June 2001 from about 6:30.
> The location has not been confirmed yet so keep an eye on the web site.

The social will be in the cellar bar of the PO. I'll update the web site
over the weekend.

Dave...

-- 



The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

RE: General Election

[Cross David - dcross]

From: Piers Cawley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 2:27 PM

Cross David - dcross <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

[The Red Flag]
 
> > I prefer it sung to the original tune ("The White Cockade") as opposed
to
> > the christmas carol dirge that is most used these days.
> 
> Hmm... how the hell do you fit it to The White Cockade? No matter how
> I try it it still sounds bloody ugly.

There's a fine version of it to this tune by Billy Bragg and Dick Gaughn on
BB's mini-album "The Internationale".

If you haven't tracked down an mp3 by next week, remind me and I'll play it
to you.

Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

RE: General Election

[Cross David - dcross]

From: Barbie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 1:46 PM

> > There will, of course, be an entrance test. Anyone who doesn't know the
> > first verse and chorus of "The Red Flag" will not be admitted :)
> 
> Is this the modern doctored version or the traditional version?

The New Labour version starts like this:

"The people's flag is lightest pink,
It's not as red as you might think."

I prefer it sung to the original tune ("The White Cockade") as opposed to
the christmas carol dirge that is most used these days.

Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

RE: crazy golf

[Cross David - dcross]

From: Paul Mison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 1:07 PM

> (Anyone standing on the platform of reforming bank holidays? 
> I'd buy that for a dollar.)

Whatever happened to the plan to do away with that nasty socialist holiday
on Mayday and replace with something much more Jingoistic - Trafalgar Day
wasn't it?

Dave...
[who thinks it's about time we decimalised the calendar]

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

RE: crazy golf

[Cross David - dcross]

From: Greg McCarroll <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 1:10 PM

> blech has just informed me, its 27/8/2001, which would make
> the first annual grand London.pm crazy golf open on the 25/8/2001
> 
> now what do people want to do? go to hastings and return the
> same day? stay over?   

Luckily for you all, I'll be in Edinburgh that weekend. This will make it an
altogether more evenly matched game. Having grown up at the seaside my crazy
golf is pretty shit-hot :)

Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

RE: General Election

[Cross David - dcross]

From: Greg McCarroll <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 11:10 AM

> i'll be with you standing on his doorstep Jonathan, especially as
> it was written by a member of the irish republic brotherhood ;-),
> and we all know what results are important on thursday night -
> thats right the northern irish ones! [1]
>
> [1] disclaimer ... in case anyone doesn't know me, statements i
> make about northern irish politics are generally made with tongue
> in cheek

In fact, Greg is _such_ an expert on the Northern Ireland[1] electoral
system that he fails to remember that the votes aren't counted until Friday
morning :)

Dave...

[1] The use of the term "Northern Ireland" is simply a convenient shorthand
and should in no way be taken as a endorsement of the existance of such a
region.

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

RE: General Election

[Cross David - dcross]

From: Robert Shiels <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 11:02 AM

> Does anyone know what time the result is usually announced

Well, it's not official until one party gets a majority of seats, which
might not be until 4 or 5am. It's normally pretty clear what's going to
happen by about 2am tho'.

> (and 38 days is not an acceptable answer, this isn't Florida!)

But there _will_ be a lot more postal votes this time :)

Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

RE: General Election

[Cross David - dcross]

From: Piers Cawley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 11:04 AM

> "Jonathan Peterson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
> > At 10:32 01/06/01 +0100, you wrote:
> > >  I suggest we leave the pub at about 9:30pm and get the tube
> > >back to mine, stopping at Threshers en route.
> > 
> > Can't we just go to another pub that's got Peter Snow on the telly?
> > 
> > >There will, of course, be an entrance test. Anyone who doesn't know the
> > >first verse and chorus of "The Red Flag" will not be admitted :)
> > 
> > Don't do that Dave. It's bad to drink alone.
> 
> I'm not prepared to bet that he'll be allowing himself in.

Oh. I know at least the first verse and chorus. And both tunes :)

> Does it count if you know all the verses to Raise Your Banner High
> instead? Can I blag a bed again, what with the Iterative meeting the
> next day...

No. And yes.

Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

RE: General Election

[Cross David - dcross]

From: Jonathan Peterson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 10:51 AM

> At 10:32 01/06/01 +0100, you wrote:
> >  I suggest we leave the pub at about 9:30pm and get the tube
> >back to mine, stopping at Threshers en route.
> 
> Can't we just go to another pub that's got Peter Snow on the telly?

What? Until 3 or 4am?

> >There will, of course, be an entrance test. Anyone who doesn't know the
> >first verse and chorus of "The Red Flag" will not be admitted :)
> 
> Don't do that Dave. It's bad to drink alone.

I really don't believe that it's beyond the capability of anyone to find the
words on the web an learn them in the next six days :)

Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

General Election

[Cross David - dcross]

You'll have noticed, I hope, that next Thursday is both our June meeting and
a General Election. I hope you'll all go and vote before the meeting so you
don't have to dash off before the polling stations close :)

Someone (Paul?) mentioned a couple of weeks ago that it might be nice if we
could all go somewhere after the pub to watch the results come in and...
er... "celebrate" another victory for the christian democrats. If anyone
still thinks this is a good idea, then I'm happy to offer my house as a
venue for this. I suggest we leave the pub at about 9:30pm and get the tube
back to mine, stopping at Threshers en route.

There will, of course, be an entrance test. Anyone who doesn't know the
first verse and chorus of "The Red Flag" will not be admitted :)

Vive la Revolution!

Comrade Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

Inline::PERL

[Cross David - dcross]

Another gem from Perlmonks. I'm thinking I should post this one to the
Cookwood board :)



>From the POD:

=head1 DESCRIPTION

Inline::PERL gives you the power of the PERL programming language from
within your Perl programs. This gives you instant access to hundreds
of pre-coded applications such as bulletin boards, hit counters and
shopping carts.

PERL is a programming language for writing CGI applications. It's main
strength is that it doesn't have any unnecessary warnings or
strictures. It is a direct descendent of Perl, a programming language
which was used mainly by programmers. However, the original language
required too much reading and thinking and so PERL was developed as a
language which was more in tune with the requirements of the Internet
age.


=head1 PERL DOCUMENTATION

Unfortunately there is no documentation for PERL (believe me I've
looked everywhere). Therefore, the best thing to do is to go straight
to comp.lang.perl.misc and ask your questions there.


-- 
 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

RE: OT,Joke : Forwarded from alt.humour.best.of.usenet

[Cross David - dcross]

From: Greg McCarroll <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 2:32 PM

> * Cross David - dcross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> > From: Simon Wistow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 2:25 PM
> > 
> > > Cross David - dcross wrote:
> > > 
> > > > [1] http://www.pair.com/spook [2] for those of you not yet
acquainted
> > > > with Mr Corley's particualt brand of madness.
> > > > 
> > > > [2] At least, that _was_ his web site, but trying to access it from
> > > > behind this firewall I get "The Websense category "Tasteless" is 
> > > > restricted."
> > > 
> > > 404 - G3b0rk3d
> > 
> > 'K. Try this one then <http://www.five.org.uk/>.
> > 
> > I have reasons to believe that Mike Corley lives very close to me.
> 
> Surely you mean Boleslaw Tadeusz Szocik. He lives i believe in
> Englewood Road, SW12 (exact number removed just in case).

That's the one. And that _is_ very close to me.

Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

RE: OT,Joke : Forwarded from alt.humour.best.of.usenet

[Cross David - dcross]

From: Simon Wistow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 2:25 PM

> Cross David - dcross wrote:
> 
> > [1] http://www.pair.com/spook [2] for those of you not yet acquainted
with
> > Mr Corley's particualt brand of madness.
> > 
> > [2] At least, that _was_ his web site, but trying to access it from
behind
> > this firewall I get "The Websense category "Tasteless" is restricted."
> 
> 404 - G3b0rk3d

'K. Try this one then <http://www.five.org.uk/>.

I have reasons to believe that Mike Corley lives very close to me.

Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

RE: OT,Joke : Forwarded from alt.humour.best.of.usenet

[Cross David - dcross]

From: Greg McCarroll <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 2:02 PM

> Just plucked this out of alt.humour.best.of.usenet (originally from
> the frasier newsgroup), and it made me curl up with laughter, maybe 
> its not everyones taste of funny but some may enjoy it  

[snip]

Heh! Sounds like he should be talking to Mike Corley[1].

Dave...

[1] http://www.pair.com/spook [2] for those of you not yet acquainted with
Mr Corley's particualt brand of madness.

[2] At least, that _was_ his web site, but trying to access it from behind
this firewall I get "The Websense category "Tasteless" is restricted."

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

OSCon London

[Cross David - dcross]

I got a catalogue mailed to me from ORA UK yesterday. Nothing unusual in
that, I'm always getting catalogues in the post from O'Reilly.

This one, however, had an advert on the from about the Open Source
Convention. Not the San Diego Open Source Convention, but one in London on
October 22 - 25. That's currently all I know, but I'll see what else I can
find out.

Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

RE: [PUB] Possible candidate

[Cross David - dcross]

From: Simon Wistow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 10:15 AM

> Cross David - dcross wrote:
>  
> > 
> > That's "Doggett Coat and Badge - a pint to the forst person to explain
the
> > name.
> > 
> 
> c.f previous mail
> 
> The right to wear Doggett's Coat and Badge is the prize in a rowing race
> held yearly since 1715 between London Bridge and Cadogan Pier, Chelsea
> in London. It was initiated by Thomas Doggett to commemorate the
> coronation of George I. The badge is silver and shows the white horse of
> Hannover. The race is now held in July. 

Maybe I should have said "a pint to the first person WHO WASN'T IN THE PUB
LAST NIGHT LEARNING ALL ABOUT THE HISTORY to explain the name".

Btw, the coat is red.

Dave...
[giving up now]

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

RE: [PUB] Possible candidate

[Cross David - dcross]

From: Simon Wistow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 10:16 AM

> Cross David - dcross wrote:
> 
> > I think it's too late to organise anything for tonight, but feel free to
> > organise a recce for next month.
> 
> Tonight? But it's Wednesday the 30th today.
> 
> /me gets confused

Er... Ok. Confusion reigns.

I think I meant:

I think it's too late to organise anything for next week (June meeting), but
feel free to organise a recce before the following (July) meeting.

Apologies for fuckwittage.

Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

RE: [PUB] Possible candidate

[Cross David - dcross]

From: Simon Wistow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 10:00 AM

> Was meandering aimlessly round by Southwark/ Blackfriar's Bridge/ Tate
> Modern area last night and ended up in a very nice pub by the river
> called Doggets Coat and Badge. I have the manager's business card at
> home.


That's "Doggett Coat and Badge - a pint to the forst person to explain the
name.


It _is_ a nice pub. Tho' it's distance from tube stations may count against
it.

The other problem that I have with it is that it used to have a tendancy to
keep "City Pub" hours - i.e. to close at 9pm.

I think it's too late to organise anything for tonight, but feel free to
organise a recce for next month.

Dave...

-- 



The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

RE: SQL statements to DB Schema (dia ?)

[Cross David - dcross]

From: Greg Cope <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 7:33 AM

> Dear All
> 
> This is not perl related, but I hope to tap your collective knowledge.
> 
> I'm involved with taking on a project started (and nearly finished) by
> an Agency writen mostly in PHP and Delphi. No statements that I'm
> already in trouble - thanks.
> 
> I have no DB schema, and as such could dump the SQL schema (via
> mysqldump) - and I was wondering if there was a super thing that could
> translate the create table stuff into a diagram I could print, and then
> look at  If this worked on Linux and involved perl and Dia then it
> would be fab.


If GraphViz doesn't do this already - it will by the end of the day :)


Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

Forthcoming Meetings

[Cross David - dcross]

Social Meeting: Thursday 7th June

Unless anyone comes up with a better idea in the next 24 hours, we'll go to
the Penderels Oak for this.

Technical Meeting: Thursday 21st June

Need a venue for this please people. And speakers. If any speakers want to
practise TPC or YAPC::E talks, then this might be a good time to do it.

Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

Friday Afternoon Fun

[Cross David - dcross]

It's a slow day :) 

And you might enjoy this challenge:



Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

Tie::Hash::Regex vs Tie::RegexpHash

[Cross David - dcross]

I was just looking thru CPAN (and, yes, I realise I should have done that
_before_ writing T::H::R[1]) and I found a module called Tie::RegexpHash.
Having looked at it in some detail, I see it's doing the opposite of T::H::R
and I think that's quite interesting.

In T::H::R, the keys are always strings. Just as they are in 'real' hashes.
The only clever bits (and therefore the only bits I had to override from
Tie::StdHash) are when you're looking up a key - FETCH, EXISTS and DELETE.
If your key doesn't match an existing key, then it's used as a regex and we
see if that regex matches any of the existing keys.

In T::R, the keys that you use in the hash are all treated as regexes. In
effect you're saying "if you look up a value using a key that matches this
regex, then return this value". An added complication is that the key/value
pairs are _ordered_ (the underlying object is an array, not a hash) so that
you can guarantee that the regexes are checked in the same order as you
added them to the hash.

It's all very clever, but I'm not convinced how useful it is[2]. And it took
a whole bunch more implementation than T::H::R did. Oh, and it's written for
Perl 5.6, but the only reason I can see is so the author can 'use warnings'.

Anyway, just thought someone might be interested :)

Dave...

[1] Hmmm... note to self - see if you can come up with a tied hash that
abbreviates to T::H::C.

[2] Not that I'm one to complain about _that_ - people in glass houses...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

RE: wantarray and Tied Hashed

[Cross David - dcross]

From: David Cantrell [EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 12:25 PM

> On Fri, May 25, 2001 at 12:15:44PM +0100, Cross David - dcross wrote:
> 
> > Anyway, as I said before, you can work around it with
> > 
> > my @array = tied(%h)->FETCH('two');
> > 
> > If anyone is interested, Tie::Hash::Regex is currently winging its way
to
> > your favourite CPAN mirror.
> 
> I wonder, could you do some magic with the calling stack so that your
> FETCH can Do The Right Thing?

Or, I could just accept that I'm a BAD MAN who is trying to PERVERT PERL in
NASTY WAYS.

:)

Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

RE: wantarray and Tied Hashed

[Cross David - dcross]

From: Simon Cozens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 12:02 PM

> On Thu, May 24, 2001 at 11:28:27AM +0100, Cross David - dcross wrote:
> > my @array = $h{two};
>   ^
> In perl 5 at least, *this* is your scalar context.

Good point. But even if I change it to:

my @array = @h{two};

FETCH doesn't get called in list context (instead it gets called once in
scalar context for each key in the list - in this case once). I can see why
Perl does this and I _almost_ agree that it's the right thing.

Anyway, as I said before, you can work around it with

my @array = tied(%h)->FETCH('two');

If anyone is interested, Tie::Hash::Regex is currently winging its way to
your favourite CPAN mirror.

Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

RE: wantarray and Tied Hashed

[Cross David - dcross]

From: David Cantrell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 1:57 PM

> On Thu, May 24, 2001 at 11:28:27AM +0100, Cross David - dcross wrote:
> 
> > package Tie::Hash::Test;
> > 
> > sub FETCH {
> >   print "wantarray is ", wantarray ? "true\n" : "false\n";
> >   return $_[0]->{$_[1]};
> > }
> > 
> > package main;
> > 
> > my %h;
> > tie %h, 'Tie::Hash::Test';
> > 
> > %h = (one => 1, two => 2);
> > 
> > my $scalar = $h{one};
> > my @array = $h{two};
> > 
> > This prints out "wantarray is false" on both accesses. To me, this
implies
> > that Perl is doing something strange behind the scenes and is forcing
the
> > FETCH call to always be in scalar context, when I'd expect the second
call
> > to be evaluated in list context.
> 
> FETCH will indeed be called in scalar context.  You can only store scalars
> as hash values, and so you will never want to get an array out of them.
> 
> Even if you do:
> 
> my @array=@h{@multiple_keys}
> 
> FETCH will still be called once for each key, in scalar context.

All true, and very valid. But you forget that we're talking about _tied_
hashes here. And this means that all bets about behaviour are off.

In this instance, I found the 'problem' when working on Tie::Hash::Regex. In
this module you can lookup a hash value using a regex. It's therefore very
likely that one regex would match a number of hash keys and in that case I'd
like to know if FETCH is called in list context so I can return _all_ of the
matching keys.

This is the first time that my imagination has come up with something that
you can't do in Perl and it's vaguely unsettling. I'm betting it's just an
oversight and if I mention it on p5p we'll get a fix pretty pronto :)

Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

RE: wantarray and Tied Hashed

[Cross David - dcross]

[snip]

An update -

Calling FETCH like this:

$scalar = tied(%h)->FETCH('one');
@array = tied(%h)->FETCH('two');

Does the 'right' thing. So it's certainly something in the tie interface.

Dave...
[contemplating searching the perl source code]

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

RE: [Announce] Hackspoitation film fest

[Cross David - dcross]

From: Greg McCarroll <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 12:07 PM

> * Cross David - dcross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> 
> > > Well, would *you* say "no" to Steven Seagal?
> > 
> > I strongly suspect I'd say no to having his kids!
> 
> but he can also cook!

Can he? I wouldn't know. I know nothing about him other than he appears in
films that I have no interest in. Don't think I've seen a single film with
him in.

Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

wantarray and Tied Hashed

[Cross David - dcross]

Apologies for dragging us off-topic again...

Am I missing something obvious here?

#!/usr/bin/perl -w

use strict;

package Tie::Hash::Test;
use Tie::Hash;
use vars qw(@ISA);

@ISA = 'Tie::StdHash';

sub FETCH {
  print "wantarray is ", wantarray ? "true\n" : "false\n";
  return $_[0]->{$_[1]};
}

package main;

my %h;
tie %h, 'Tie::Hash::Test';

%h = (one => 1, two => 2);

my $scalar = $h{one};
my @array = $h{two};

This prints out "wantarray is false" on both accesses. To me, this implies
that Perl is doing something strange behind the scenes and is forcing the
FETCH call to always be in scalar context, when I'd expect the second call
to be evaluated in list context.

Any clues?

Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

RE: [Announce] Hackspoitation film fest

[Cross David - dcross]

From: Matthew Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 11:05 AM

> > > Wow, and she's got three kids by Steven Seagal.
> > 
> > The eighties were a crazy decade and people did a lot of things they
> > regret.

I know I did :)

> Well, would *you* say "no" to Steven Seagal?

I strongly suspect I'd say no to having his kids!

Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

RE: Election Manifestos

[Cross David - dcross]

From: Leon Brocard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 9:43 AM

> Cross David - dcross sent the following bits through the ether:
> 
> > This, of course, presupposes that acmemail passes everyone's
> > definition of a decent mail client. And if it doesn't, we can just
> > slap the authors until it does :)
> 
> You'll be happy to know that I gave up ownership of acmemail a while
> back stating that: a) I wasn't using it b) hence I wasn't improving it
> c) I don't have time for things I don't use. I handed it over to a
> couple of guys in the acmemail "community" who are slowly plodding
> along. It didn't hit critical mass. Discuss.

OK. But you'd still be able to install it far easier than anyone else in the
group :)

Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

RE: Election Manifestos

[Cross David - dcross]

From: Paul Makepeace <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 8:00 AM

> On Wed, May 23, 2001 at 07:49:48AM +0100, Dave Cross wrote:
> > Yes, there _are_ always round it, but some people don't have the time 
> > or knowledge to do that.
> 
> You're more than welcome to snag this Java 1.1 SSH client at 
> 
> http://paulm.com/login/index.html
> http://paulm.com/login/mindtermfull.jar

Thanks Paul. I'll investigate that when I next have a free half hour.

I've had another idea tho'. Why don't we install acmemail on Penderel and
suggest that people with braindead mail clients use that?

This, of course, presupposes that acmemail passes everyone's definition of a
decent mail client. And if it doesn't, we can just slap the authors until it
does :)

Dave...
[positive suggestions r us]

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

RE: Election Manifestos

[Cross David - dcross]

From: Simon Wistow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 4:03 PM

> According to the Register ...
> 
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/19112.html
> 
> the Tory's want to repeal IR35,

I've not actually seen the manifesto, but from what I'm told it really means


We're going to repeal IR35


...and replace it with something else that does the same thing


Plus ca change...

Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

RE: Sara Cox - was Re: FHM Top 100 Sexiest Women

[Cross David - dcross]

From: Barbie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 9:58 AM

> From: "robert shiels" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> > "According to a recent survey, men say the first thing they notice about
> > a women are their eyes.  And women say the first thing they notice about
> > men are: they're a bunch of liars."
> 
> That's not quite true. Women initial assume that all men are automatically
> lairs and work they're way up from there.
  ^

Actually, in this case the typos works pretty well too :)

Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

RE: pc components

[Cross David - dcross]

From: Simon Wistow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2001 11:04 AM

> Matthew Byng-Maddick wrote:
> 
> > He was touring with Norman Lovett, who wasn't nearly as good.
> 
> I found Norman Lovett really funny. Managed to keep the whole audience
> laughing without actually saying anything for a few minutes and thena
> few minutes more just by saying "what?"

(Norman Lovett)++

I've got a recording of Lovett telling a joke about my school.

"I went to a comprehensive school in Clacton-on-Sea[1].
 (pause)
 I left that school with one O Level.
 (longer pause)
 But they caught up with me and made me give it back."

Dave...

[1] I have no reason to believe that Norman Lovett actually _did_ go to my
school[2].
[2] Sade did tho'. She was a couple of years older than me. Everyone hated
her because she was a stuck-up bitch. I still can't listen to her music.


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

RE: Ken Campbell is a god (was: pc components)

[Cross David - dcross]

From: Robin Houston <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2001 2:34 PM

> On Fri, May 18, 2001 at 06:05:44AM +1000, Damian Conway wrote:
> > Im nogat samting til ridim insait long pastaim Klingon!
> > 
> > Damian (longlong tisa Perlpela)
> 
> Lingua::TokPisin::Perlpela?

Nooo!

Damian - as a sponsor, I'm _begging_ you not to do this :)

Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

TPC Quiz Lineup

[Cross David - dcross]

OK. The first response I got were from Paul Makepiece, Peter Haworth, and
Leon. So that's the team. Simon was next - so he's the substitute (we'll use
him if Leon gets stolen by Amsterdam.pm again).

I'll go and register us now.

If anyone else wants to play, there's nothing to stop you entering a B team.

Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

RE: Buffy ...

[Cross David - dcross]

From: Philip Newton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2001 11:57 AM

> Robin Szemeti wrote:
> > http://page.auctions.yahoo.com/uk/auction/51586918
> 
> Yum. Pricey, though.

Oh, I don't know. It's not _that_ expensive. I may have another look just
before it closes tomorrow morning. If it's less than £30 I may buy. Might
make a nice donation to a YAPC::Europe raffle or something...

Oh, and there's a picture of the whole cast, just signed by SMG tho' at
.

Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

RE: TPC Quiz Team

[Cross David - dcross]

From: Mark Fowler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2001 9:24 AM

> On Thu, 17 May 2001, Cross David - dcross wrote:
> 
> > I need three volunteers to join me in the london.pm team for Jon
Orwant's
> > Internet Quiz at The Perl Conference.
> 
> Does it have questions on Buffy and drinking competitions?

Well it hasn't so far, but it's all down to the whim of the quizmaster. For
new readers, we were just beaten into second place last year as none of us
knew the name of Bill Clinton's dog[1].

> -- 
>  The use of the beer glass image in association with the Perl language
>  is a trademark of the London Perl Mongers.

Having read Nat's article in the new TPJ, I think we should also have:

"The use of Buffy the Vampiure Slayer in association with the Perl language
is a trademark of the London Perl Mongers"

Dave...

[1] Note to self: find out if Dubya has any pets.

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

TPC Quiz Team

[Cross David - dcross]

I need three volunteers to join me in the london.pm team for Jon Orwant's
Internet Quiz at The Perl Conference.

This is our big chance to get revenge for the injustices of last year.

Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

RE: A look over the shoulder of an XP programmer (auf deutsch)

[Cross David - dcross]

From: Chris Devers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 3:52 PM

> At 03:22 PM 2001.05.16 +0100, Simon Cozens wrote:
> >That's not argument, it's just contradiction!
> 
> Ahh, you must be looking for a different forum then. 
> 
> Try Castro's site. ;)

"Sorry, this is 'senseless abuse'".

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

RE: Latest Perl Journal

[Cross David - dcross]

From: Barbie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 9:29 AM

> Dave,
> 
> Loved the footnote on page 78.

Thanks very much. It's one of my favourite jokes. It was trialed at a
london.pm technical meeting some months ago :)

Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

RE: T-Shirts

[Cross David - dcross]

From: Robert Shiels <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 5:23 PM

> I was just wondering, have the secret T-shirt designs been sent off to the
> printers yet ? The reason I ask is that I'd really like one of them to be
> Hitch-Hiker related; or maybe we could have a special run of ZZ9 Plural Z
> Alpha.PM shirts done.

Wierdly enough, that has always been one of the designs on the list.

Dave...
[waiting for Simon to send his bank details so he can bankroll the deal]


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

RE: Enough!

[Cross David - dcross]

From: Greg McCarroll <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> However what i'd really hate is any restrictions placed 
> on the topics of London.pm , politics should be just as 
> welcome as BtVS.

Or, even, Perl :)

Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

RE: like a phoenix from the flames

[Cross David - dcross]

From: David Cantrell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 10:49 PM

> On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 10:35:44PM +0100, Natalie Ford wrote:
> > At 09:58 14/05/01, James Powell wrote:
> > >The Perl Journal arrived this morning...
> > 
> > Mine too!  You read Dave's article and the credits at the end of
Damian's? :)
> 
> It will come as no surprise to any of yhou that mine hasn't arrived :-)

Ah. I'd _missed_ those emails. It's a bit like the first cuckoo of spring :)

But they've only just started to appear in the UK. I haven't seen mine yet.
Not that it's important or anything - I just wrote an article for the bloody
thing.

Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

RE: Politics (was RE: BOFHs requiring license)

[Cross David - dcross]

From: Simon Cozens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]?
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 12:08 PM

> There are some contractors here, I understand, who might have something
> to say about government policy on taxation.

Heh. Can you be a contractor and hold on to your left-wing principles? Let's
see...

Whilst I'd seem to be happier (or, rather, 'richer') without IR35, I am very
sympathetic to the point of view that most contractors have been abusing an
obvious loophole for a very long time. I believe that people with more money
should pay more tax and therefore am happy to pay my way.

I am in the process of invesigating converting all of my income to PAYE. A
preliminary report from my IFA shows that it's feasible for my company to
increase my salary to a level whereby I get the same amount from salary
alone as I do currently from a combination of salary and dividends.

Unfortunately for the government. This means that my company will _never_
show a profit. And, therefore, that they will get no corporation tax from
me. It looks like the increase in Income Tax/NIC will be almost exactly the
same size as the decrease in Corp Tax. Therefore IR35 has almost zero effect
on the money that either I or the government take from my company.

Mind you, I've never been one of those contractors who pay themselves £2,500
pa so YMMV.

Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

RE: BOFHs requiring license

[Cross David - dcross]

From: Robert Shiels <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 10:24 AM

> I've always been pretty right wing, and as I get older I'm getting worse
:-)
> My prediction is that Labour will win again (a no-brainer I know), and
that
> the Conservatives will elect a new leader. Over the next 4 years, Labour
> will fail to deliver their promises yet again, and the country will swing
> back to the party of low taxes, who will be re-elected in 2006. I've been
on
> an NHS waiting list since before Christmas actually, Labour isn't working
> for me.

Here's a pretty fundamental issue. Why do so many people seem to think that
low taxes are good? Isn't it obvious to people that in order for the country
to have a reasonable level of services and infrastructure, then it needs to
be paid for?

And when they talk about taxes, they only ever mean Income Tax. As long as
that goes down, everyone's happy. Both parties over the last 20 years have
made it a priority to lower income tax, but they can only do so by raising
other taxes. It's just a question of juggling a) which sectors of society
get to may more or less tax and b) whether you pay it on money you earn or
money you spend.

The money has to be raised somehow.

> Thinking about it though, most of LondonPM seem left-wing to me too, but
> I've put that down to the fact that most are quite young. I am reminded
of:
> 
> "If a man is not a socialist by the time he is twenty, he has no heart.
> If he is not a conservative by the time he is 40, he has no brain."
> -Winston Churchill
> 
> discuss :-)

I'm one of the oldest members of london.pm and (I hope) I'm one of the most
left-wing. I became pretty apolitical in my late 20s, but now I find myself
getting more and more left-wing again.

Oh, and Churchill was an arsehole. As the population worked out in the 1945
General Election. Anyone responding with nonsense about him winning the
second world war will be given a history lesson :)

Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

RE: BOFHs requiring license

[Cross David - dcross]

From: Jonathan Peterson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 9:41 AM

> At 17:58 13/05/01 +0100, you wrote:
> >At 17:38 13/05/2001, Simon Cozens wrote:
> >>
> >>Which "intelligent people who understood it" would that be, then?
> >
> >Take a look around you. This list, being representative of the Perl 
> >community, tends towards the intelligent end of the spectrum. And from 
> >what I've gathered from the conversations I've had with people here, the 
> >vast majority of us tend towards the left[1].
> 
> Plenty of merchant banks full of very intelligent people who aren't very 
> socialist.

Very true. But in my experience the IT groups of those hotbeds of capitalism
still contain _far_ higher percentages of left-wingers that you'd expect.

Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

RE: Monitors

[Cross David - dcross]

From: Dominic Mitchell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, May 11, 2001 4:22 PM

> How many things do you have on top of your monitor?

Here - none (not sure why my mini-Tux never made it to Acxiom)
At home - many things. But boring things like network hubs or CD backups or
boot disks. And occasionally a (real) cat.

Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

Tie::Regex::Hash

[Cross David - dcross]

Sorry to drag us back on topic, but I thought you might like to tsee this
which I just knocked up for someone on perlmonks.

package Tie::Hash::Regex;

use strict;
use vars qw($VERSION @ISA @EXPORT @EXPORT_OK);

require Exporter;
require Tie::Hash;

@ISA = qw(Exporter Tie::StdHash);
@EXPORT = qw();
@EXPORT_OK =();

$VERSION = '0.01';

sub FETCH {
  my $self = shift;
  my $key = shift;

  return $self->{$key} if exists $self->{$key};

  foreach (keys %$self) {
return $self->{$_} if /$key/;
  }

  return;
}

1;

You use it like this:

use Tie::Hash::Regex

my %hash;

tie %hash, 'Tie::Hash::Regex';

$hash{key} = 'one';
$hash{stuff} = 'two';

print "$hash{key}\n";  # prints 'one'
print "$hash{'^s'}\n"; # prints 'two'
print "$hash{'y'}\n";  # prints 'one'
print "$hash{'.*'}\n"; # prints 'two'

The last is, of course, of limited use as it just matches the first key it
finds in the hash.

Share and Enjoy,

Dave...


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

RE: Introduction to XP

[Cross David - dcross]

From: Cross David - dcross <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2001 1:47 PM

> Interesting stuff...
> 
> <http://linux.oreillynet.com/pub/a/linux/2001/05/04/xp_intro.html>

Should point out, that's Extreme Programming, _not_ Windows XP :)

Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

Introduction to XP

[Cross David - dcross]

Interesting stuff...



Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

RE: Bah!

[Cross David - dcross]

From: David Cantrell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2001 11:57 AM

> On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 11:22:45AM +0100, Cross David - dcross wrote:
> 
> > Do you write it in raw Tex/LaTeX, or do you generate that from some
other
> > format (like, perhaps, XML)? I'd be interested in seeing the
intermediate
> > stages.
> 
> Ahh, now that would be telling :-)
> 
> Oh alright then, I used lyx to generate the outline - getting all the
> headers and tables sorted, then exported as LaTeX and edited from there.
> 
>  has anyone done TeX goodness with Template Toolkit?

That's pretty much the direction my question was going...

I haven't (yet) but I plan to be talking about such things at YAPC::Europe.

Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

RE: (Ab)Using substr

[Cross David - dcross]

From: Robin Houston <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2001 11:25 AM

> On Thu, May 10, 2001 at 09:16:25AM +0100, Cross David - dcross wrote:
> > #!/usr/bin/perl -w   # how to (ab)use substr
> > use strict;
> > my $pi='3.14159210535152623346475240375062163750446240333543375062';
> 
> Well, it's more just taking advantage of the fact that most people
> don't know more than six decimal places of Pi :-)

Yeah. That was pointed out on perlmonks.

> Actually it is a thing of great beauty.

It is, isn't it. It was written by Stephen Jenkins, the same chap that wrote
the camel code on the ThinkGeek tshirt
<http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/things/321a.html>.

He posts on Perlmonks under the name Erudil and _all_ of his posts are worth
checking out.

Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

RE: Bah!

[Cross David - dcross]

From: David Cantrell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2001 11:18 AM

[evildave's cv]

> I've put plain-text and HTML versions up as well now.  Bow down before
> the awesome power of TeX!

Do you write it in raw Tex/LaTeX, or do you generate that from some other
format (like, perhaps, XML)? I'd be interested in seeing the intermediate
stages.

Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

RE: TBA?

[Cross David - dcross]

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2001 10:22 AM

> is a venue decided on for tonights meeting, or is it still TBA?

Yeah. Sorry. General crapness on the part of the webmaster :(

We'll be meeting in the Penderels Oak tonight from about 6:30pm.

I'll have a copy of "Perl Debugged" which I bought in NY. It's mine so I
won't be giving it away, but you can look at it. And maybe even touch it.

Dave...

p.s. Look at this - . I
rock!

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

(Ab)Using substr

[Cross David - dcross]

Mentioned this in passing to Piers and Leon last night and they seemed
interested enough to justify posting it here. It's not mine :)

#!/usr/bin/perl -w   # how to (ab)use substr
use strict;

my $pi='3.14159210535152623346475240375062163750446240333543375062';

 substr ($^X,0)=
   substr   ($pi,-6);map{
 substr ($^X,$.++,1)=chr(
  substr($pi,21,2)+
  substr($pi,$_,2))}(12,28,-18,-6,-10,14);map{$^O=$"x(
 substr ($pi,-5,2));
   substr   ($^O,sin(++$a/8)*32+
 substr ($pi,-2)/2+1,1)=$_;
   substr   ($^O,sin($a/4)*(
 substr ($pi,2,2))+
substr  ($pi,-7,-5)-1,1)=$_;print"$^O$/";eval($^X.('$b,'x3).
substr  ($pi,-3,1).'.'.
 substr ($pi,9,2));}(map{chr($_+
   substr   ($pi,21,2))}(
 substr ($pi,8)x3)=~/../g);


For more discussion (including and explaination) see
.

Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

RE: Dim Sum?

[Cross David - dcross]

From: David H. Adler [EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 5:22 PM

> On Wed, May 09, 2001 at 03:02:52PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote:
> 
> > Simon, if you are going to reveal next week's Buffy episode at least
> > put SPOILER in the subject ;-)
> 
> Oh, you people would just *love* to know what happened last night,
> wouldn't you?  BWAHAHAHAHAHA

We'll get to see in in just over a week anyway.

Is the one where G zaps Txxx's b?

Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

Irish music (was RE: Movies (was Re: Buffy musings ...))

[Cross David - dcross]

From: Nathan Torkington <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 3:55 PM

> On the subject of music (despite the Subject: of movies) ... anyone
> here into trad. Irish instrumental music?

Well, I prefer stuff with lyrics, but enjoy almost any kind of Irish (and
English) folk music.

What are you doing between TPC and Y::E? You sound like the kind of person
who would really enjoy the Cambridge Folk Festival
.

Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

RE: Buffy musings ...

[Cross David - dcross]

From: Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 9:22 AM

> On Tue, May 08, 2001 at 11:20:36AM -0600, Nathan Torkington wrote:
> > > 2) Get Willow.  Dammit.
>  
> > I'll see what they cost.  It might be prohibitively expensive to get
> > anyone who's cute.
> 
> Get Willow then ;)

/me slaps Dean.


-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

RE: sing if you're happy that way

[Cross David - dcross]

From: Andrew Bowman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 3:18 PM

> > From: Struan Donald [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: 08 May 2001 13:08
> > 
> > * at 08/05 13:04 +0100 Matthew Jones said:
> > > Wisty - next T-shirt please:
> > > 
> > > use strict
> > >   is gay
> > > 
> > > Heh. On the back "-w is jolly"?
> >
> > surely the back should be:
> > 
> > CHOPS
> 
> Excuse me for my ignorance of this matter, however I can't figure out what
> 'CHOPS' means in this context (and am sure I'm not alone among London
PMers,
> at least not on this question).
> 
> According to acronymfinder.com it's "Controlled Humidity Operational
> Preservation System", but I doubt this is what the tiresome oik on
> crackwood.com or cookpot.com or whatever it is was referring to.
> 
> Nor does Jeeves know either.

It's what Chris uses to sign off his more erudite postings at the Cookwood
board - either that or the even more scarey 'PISHA'!

Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

YAPC::Europe

[Cross David - dcross]

Don't forget that the deadline for proposals for talks at YAPC::Europe is
getting closer. Proposals must be submitted by June 1st.

When I checked over the weekend they had proposals from four london.pm
members (totalling 7 talks - almost a third of the proposals) but there will
always be room for more!

In particular they need more lightning talks. Currently they've only had one
proposal - so it'll be a rather _long_ lightning talk :)

Details of the proposal submission process are at
.

Dave...

p.s. Rememeber, the first day of YAPC::Europe coincides with our August
meeting, so if you're not at the conference you won't be able to go to the
meeting!

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

RE: More revolting natives

[Cross David - dcross]

From: Alex Page <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 5:09 PM

> On Fri, May 04, 2001 at 04:54:05PM +0100, Dominic Mitchell wrote:
> > On Fri, May 04, 2001 at 04:47:43PM +0100, Dean wrote:
> > > On Fri, May 04, 2001 at 04:32:35PM +0100, Cross David - dcross wrote:
> > > > Well, the 13 year old now claims to be 20. But no, this is his
friend bk who
> > > > "kills people for a living" in Hereford!

> > > Um. I no longer want children.

> > You *wanted* them?  :-)

> Deep fried?


I love children - but I couldn't eat a whole one.


Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

Native Code Experts

[Cross David - dcross]

Thought you might be interested in this post from our frind the Hereford
Killer. Someone posted some code that used for(;;) loops. And this was bk's
response:


Erm, My eyes keep darting to your FOR loops. For is mainly used in
javascript, and perl doesnt handle them, mainly because of the semicolons
used to split the operations. Instead of for, use foreach, because thats
close to the perl equivalent of for. I'm not sure exactly what that would
translate to into perl, but if you want to do something in a foreach loop,
it would look like 

foreach $ArrayItemYouNeedToChange (@TheArray) { 
#do this 
} 

Remember, for loops are for JS, not perl. You cant use semicolons in perl,
unless theyre before a carriage return. 


And this from someone who describes himself as a "PERL Master".

Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

RE: More revolting natives

[Cross David - dcross]

From: Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 4:30 PM

> On Fri, May 04, 2001 at 04:17:25PM +0100, Cross David - dcross wrote:
> > Oh, and you've just gotta love the mentality that sees 'gay' as an
insult.
> > Gives a real feel for the kind of person we're dealing with :)
> 
> Just to clarify is this the 13 year old?

Well, the 13 year old now claims to be 20. But no, this is his friend bk who
"kills people for a living" in Hereford!

Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

RE: More revolting natives

[Cross David - dcross]

From: Piers Cawley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 4:07 PM

> They really don't learn do they?
> 
> The thread beginning with 
> http://www.cookwood.com/cgi-bin/lcastro/perlbbs.pl?read=4666 is a 
> hoot. I particularly like the post where our hero says:
> 
> No,but its true-- strict really does suck. I hate it. Its gay.
> Dont tell me ehat to do. And nobody wants your to be back, either.
> 
> in response to one of Dave's posts.

Heh. We were discussing that on IRC a couple of days ago. Notice that when I
challenged him to back up his opinion logically he went very quiet -
although he _has_ been back to the board since then.

Oh, and you've just gotta love the mentality that sees 'gay' as an insult.
Gives a real feel for the kind of person we're dealing with :)

Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

RE: Buffy? .. naah .. wait till you see this

[Cross David - dcross]

From: Simon Wistow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 3:47 PM

> Cross David - dcross wrote:
>  
> > I'll get my photos up before too long. But I do need to get them
developed
> > the old fashioned way, so if anyone wants to prevent photos taken on the
> > Staten Island Ferry from being published then they still have a few days
to
> > approach me with an appropriate bribe.
> 
> Well I could mention that you were a big jessie on the roller coaster at
> Coney Island ... except that I've jsut done that. Ah. 

At least _I_ was on the roller coaster at Coney Island - unlike some people
I could mention. And I'm hoping that Gill has the photo to prove it :)

> Have I ever mentioned that I really like you and have always respected
> and admired you?

Heh! That's more like it :)

Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

RE: Buffy? .. naah .. wait till you see this

[Cross David - dcross]

From: Paul Mison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 12:43 PM

> I'll try to sort out photos (although I didn't take any at NY.pm) and
> some sort of documentary web page, for anyone who cares, at some point
> in the next, sigh, four weeks? Unlike celia, who's got some up anyway
> (and they're probably better too:
> http://shadowgirl.net/photos/NYC-apr-2001/).

I deliberately didn't take my camera to ny.pm either - assuming (wrongly)
that someone else would do it.

I'll get my photos up before too long. But I do need to get them developed
the old fashioned way, so if anyone wants to prevent photos taken on the
Staten Island Ferry from being published then they still have a few days to
approach me with an appropriate bribe.

Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

RE: Buffy? .. naah .. wait till you see this

[Cross David - dcross]

From: Nathan Torkington <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 12:36 AM

> Chris Devers writes:
> > Cousin site to http://www.c-cup.com/, which seems to be down at the
moment. 
> > 
> > Typical example: "Charisma Carpenter Guide to Selected Linux Software"
> > http://www.c-cup.com/linux/software-that-works.html
> >
(http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:www.c-cup.com/linux/software-that-work
s.html)
> 
> On the subject of C.C., let me just say that last night's Angel had
> her in a bikini for an exploitative commercial she was in.
> 
> Aie caramba!

For those of you following on Sky One, remember that you're only ten days
behind the US right now - so that episode will be shown a week on Friday.

For those of you following on terrestial TV - $deity knows where or when
Angel series 2 will be shown.

Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

New Llama

[Cross David - dcross]

A page about the new edition of Learning Perl has appeared on the ORA site:



Should be out in time for TPC.

Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

RE: tube strike / may meeting postponed til 10th

[Cross David - dcross]

From: Leon Brocard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 4:51 PM

> jo walsh sent the following bits through the ether:
>
> > well, it looks like the tube strike (8pm Weds 2nd May - 8pm Thurs 3rd
May)
> > is still on, and this will scupper our May social meeting plans rather.
> 
> It's not anymore, but we shouldn't shift the date again:
> http://www.thetube.com/content/pressreleases/

Agreed. And I think that's what Jo said in her email.

> Where will the (delayed) meeting be? Have we booked a room? ;-)

Nothing booked. I therefore declare that we'll go to Penderels Oak.

Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

RE: TPC Travel

[Cross David - dcross]

From: Chris Devers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 3:49 PM

> So are any of you still thinking of going to NYC, while we're at it?

Er... yeah. We got back yesterday!

Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

RE: TPC Travel

[Cross David - dcross]

From: Leon Brocard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]?
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 3:30 PM

> Cross David - dcross sent the following bits through the ether:
>  
> > It's that time of year again boys and girls. I know it all fell apart
last
> > year, but I'm an optimist and am going to try again.
> 
> It's passed that time, actually ;-) Trailfinders found me, and I've
> confirmed, the following Northwest Airlines flights:
> 
> 21st July 12:10 Gatwick -> Minneapolis -> San Diego 18:55
> 28th July 12:10 San Diego -> Minneapolis -> Gatwick 09:00
> 
> ... for a grand total of 539.50 squid (inc everything). There were
> direct flights for a bit more, but I was trying to keep it
> cheap. Anyone found a cheaper way to get there just to spite me?

That's about the same prices that I'm seeing on ebookers, deckchair and
expedia. I may be prepared to pay a little more for a) a direct flight and
b) a better known airline :)

Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

TPC Travel

[Cross David - dcross]

It's that time of year again boys and girls. I know it all fell apart last
year, but I'm an optimist and am going to try again.

Who's going to TPC? Shall we see if we can get a group together and perhaps
get a discount on the flight?

Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

RE: Not Matt's Scripts

[Cross David - dcross]

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 12:57 PM

> so ..  who is the FormMail csar? ... I lost track of who was dealing with
> what. 

Er... me. I think.

> I spotted a few things in there and have comments .. or should i
> just post em on the list .. ???

Just post 'em to the list. Let's hold up as much as possible of my code to
the derision of the world!

Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

RE: Not Matt's Scripts

[Cross David - dcross]

> From: Matthew Byng-Maddick [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 10:07 AM
> 
> On Wed, 2 May 2001, Cross David - dcross wrote:
> > Yep. But Net::SMTP is not a stadard module and therefore sendmail wins.
> 
> That wasn't the reason. The reason was the same as one of the reasons for
> rewriting matt's scripts in the first place - that the error handling
> sucks. You can't sensibly error handle with Net::SMTP. This is why there
> was discussion, however, on widnoze, (not sure about vanilla mac (rather
> than os x)) there is no sensible way to do a queued message.

Feel free to believe what you want, but as far as I'm concerned, not
expecting people to install extra CPAN modules is of overriding importance
in writing replacements for Matt's scripts.

Dave...


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

RE: Not Matt's Scripts

[Cross David - dcross]

From: Dave Hodgkinson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 9:28 AM

> Dave Cross <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
> > Current version is at
> >  but it needs
> > some tightening up and peer review.
> 
> Remind me, what was the mission here? To so somethign that flows like
> A Matt's script but is done right?

Drop in replacements for Matt's scripts using best practices - but no
external modules.

> And didn't we have the argument(s) about sendmail vs. Net::SMTP and
> inline HTML vs. template?

Yep. But Net::SMTP is not a stadard module and therefore sendmail wins.

Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

RE: London.pm@london.pm.org

[Cross David - dcross]

From: Paul Makepeace [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 12:10 AM

> Here it is,
> 
> http://london.pm.org/mailman/listinfo/london.pm
> http://london.pm.org/pipermail/london.pm/ -- I sent a couple to seed it.
> 
> So I put in the final tweaks to get exim/mailman working
> together. (Most of the credit for the setup is to Alex/veeg and jo.)
> 
> Whether it goes from dircon to london.pm.org is up to someone else,
> this is really just to let you know it (the mailman system)'s werkin'.
> And that there are other sources of penderelesque edification,
> 
> http://penderel.state51.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arse
> 
> Have fun!

FWIW, I'd be happy for the list to move over just as soon as all the
adminny-type bods are happy that it's ready.

Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

RE: Review of Data munging with Perl on Slashdot

[Cross David - dcross]

From: Dave Hodgkinson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 8:50 PM

> "Dave Cross" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
> > Too late!
> > 
> > Dave...
> > [feeling smug]
> 
> Enjoy it while it lasts...

Well, it lasted a couple of days. And in a dramatic misuse of the slashdot
effect, it had huge positive effects on the sales rank at Amazon. At one
point on Friday evening it was number 86 in amazon.com's sales list (and 38!
at amazon.co.uk). It's now gone back to the more usual ~3000 :(

Having it appear then was great timing as I had dinner with Manning on
Friday night and they were _very_ impressed.

Oh, and thanks to the people who waded into the /. discussions. I owe you
all beers.

Now, has anyone seen the June Web Techniques yet? There's supposed to be
another good review in that.

Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.

More Natives

[Cross David - dcross]

I thought it had all blown over. Chris had even started being civil to me
again. But over the weekend bk (who was the one who started it all) posted
the following:

=

Yea, I usually _AM_ the right one. WOW, I was wrong _1_ _fucking_ _time_.
Ooohhh, Davey intimidates me! That's why I kill people for a job, and you
write about perl... 

OOh, I'm scared. 

I'll shove a howitzer up _ALL_ of your asses. (Except those who defend me,
of course)... 

Now, take yer lame ass fountain pens, and leave me alone. I'm in Hereford,
England on business, and have _NO_ time to deal with this I'm right/your
wrong/i kill/you write crap. 

Peace! 

Dave, your book sucks, in my opinion... 

Data munging--- bah. Munging? If you note AOL dictionary... The only
definition is for "mung bean". 

=

Too many openings must resist urge to reply

Dave...

-- 


The information contained in this communication is
confidential, is intended only for the use of the recipient
named above, and may be legally privileged. If the reader 
of this message is not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.  
If you have received this communication in error, please 
re-send this communication to the sender and delete the 
original message or any copy of it from your computer
system.