Dear Robert,
I understand that "Unser Magdt kan aussdermassen" is the same tune as "Unsere
Köchin...".
According to Brown it should be discussed in Böhme: "Altdeutsches Liederbuch :
Volkslieder der Deutschen nach Wort und Weise aus dem 12. bis zum 17. Jahrhundert"
Best wishes,
Rainer aus dem
This book is digitized. "Unser Magd..." can be found on page 265.
[1]Altdeutsches Liederbuch: Volkslieder der Deutschen nach Wort und
Weise aus dem 12. bis zum 17. Jahrhundert - Books on Google Play
[google.png]
Altdeutsches Liederbuch: Volkslieder der De
Dear Robert, dear Rainer,
original sources can (sometimes) be found by looking into Norbert Böker-Heil et
al. (eds.); "Das Tenorlied". 3 Vols Kassel etc. 1979 - 1986.
This is a source catalogue of songbooks both manuscript and printed from 1450
to 1580. Vol. 3 contains the indexes. "Vnser magt
Here
https://books.google.de/books/about/Altdeutsches_Liederbuch.html?id=rgY
JAQAAMAAJ&redir_esc=y
on page 388
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 08. Februar 2018 um 10:22 Uhr
Von: "magnus andersson"
An: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu, Rainer
Betreff: [LUTE] Re: German song questions
This
On 08.02.2018 10:22, magnus andersson wrote:
This book is digitized. "Unser Magd..." can be found on page 265.
Altdeutsches Liederbuch: Volkslieder der Deutschen nach Wort und Weise aus dem
12. bis zum 17. Jahrhundert - Books on Google Play
Strange - I find it on page 388.
https://books.goog
Yes, Song number 304, page 388, which is actually page 466 if you
download the pdf
On Thu, Feb 8, 2018 at 10:39 AM, [1]b...@symbol4.de <[2]b...@symbol4.de>
wrote:
Here
[3]https://books.google.de/books/about/Altdeutsches_Liederbuch.
html?id=rgY
JAQAAMAAJ&re
Am Donnerstag, 08. Februar 2018 10:39 CET, "b...@symbol4.de"
schrieb:
>Here
>https://books.google.de/books/about/Altdeutsches_Liederbuch.html?id=rgY
>JAQAAMAAJ&redir_esc=y
>
Yes, was just about to mention this as well. Please don't fall prey to Google's
data grabing.
There's n
Am Donnerstag, 08. Februar 2018 10:43 CET, Rainer
schrieb:
>
> Strange - I find it on page 388.
>
Jup, same over here (old photocopy I did years ago).
BTW, as impressive[1 as Böhme is - take everything from this book with a grain
of salt, or better
quite a substantial pinch of salt ..
Thank you all.
After Rainer's mail I was amazed to find Böhme's book on Google books
where I could even download a pdf of all 900 pages.
The song is listed under "Tanz - und Scherzliedchen".
Unsere Köchin kann aus der Masssen kochen wol,
Auch das aller beste, was man essen sol,
Am Donnerstag, 08. Februar 2018 10:29 CET, Joachim Lüdtke
schrieb:
> Dear Robert, dear Rainer,
>
> original sources can (sometimes) be found by looking into Norbert Böker-Heil
> et al. (eds.); "Das Tenorlied". 3 Vols Kassel etc. 1979 - 1986.
That would be the first place to look, haven't
Crabaten could perhaps be "kids"
On Thu, Feb 8, 2018 at 11:17 AM, Robert Barto <[1]r.ba...@gmx.de>
wrote:
Thank you all.
After Rainer's mail I was amazed to find Böhme's book on Google
books
where I could even download a pdf of all 900 pages.
The
for Crabaten see
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kroatische_Reiterei
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 08. Februar 2018 um 11:17 Uhr
Von: "Robert Barto"
An: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Betreff: [LUTE] German song questions
Thank you all.
After Rainer's mail I was amazed to find Böhme's b
Crabaten should be Kroaten (Croatians)
I have no idea why they should appear here.
Rainer
On 08.02.2018 11:24, G. C. wrote:
Crabaten could perhaps be "kids"
On Thu, Feb 8, 2018 at 11:17 AM, Robert Barto <[1]r.ba...@gmx.de>
wrote:
Thank you all.
After Rainer's ma
As it seems in this case they were prowling soldiers who were looking
for food. I assume that "good for the Crabates" means that the food
really wasn't very good...
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 08. Februar 2018 um 11:39 Uhr
Von: Rainer
An: Lutelist
Betreff: [LUTE] Re: German song q
Am Donnerstag, 08. Februar 2018 11:39 CET, Rainer
schrieb:
> Crabaten should be Kroaten (Croatians)
More specific, kroatian mercenaries. But that would be an awfully early
apearance. They fought
for the emperor during the 30 year war (from ~1620).
There _might_ have been kroatian soldiers
Online "Grimm's Wörterbuch" says:
Krabat is an old word for "Croat", and it refers also to wild kids.
Am 08.02.2018 um 11:49 schrieb b...@symbol4.de:
As it seems in this case they were prowling soldiers who were looking
for food. I assume that "good for the Crabates" means that the food
Am Donnerstag, 08. Februar 2018 12:11 CET, "Ralf Mattes"
schrieb:
> song is that young. Of course, if Böhme's apparatus is correct his version
> is from the 18th century.
Argh, typo. Werlin is of course first half of 17th century.
Cheers, RalfD
To get on or off this list se
Am Donnerstag, 08. Februar 2018 12:11 CET, "Ralf Mattes"
schrieb:
>
> > song is that young. Of course, if Böhme's apparatus is correct his version
> > is from the 18th century.
>
Argh, typo. Werlin is of course first half of 17th century.
Cheers, RalfD
To get on or off
Dear Ralf, dear all
sorry – I was unprecise. [1535]15 = [Frankfurt a.M.], [C. Egenolff]. This is
neither "Gassenhawerlin" nor "Reutterliedlein" or any other of the Egenolff
prints from 1535 which we can call by their titles, but a fragmentary one,
lacking the Tenor partbook which would have con
Oh yes, they have moved out of that beautiful house in the Silberbachstrasse,
haven't they ...
And I have never yet been able to profit from their online database either.
Joachim
-Original-Nachricht-
Betreff: [LUTE] Re: German song questions
Datum: 2018-02-08T11:20:57+0100
Von: "Ralf
Folks, *this is my final offer to you*
Whoever does *not* hear that this is the same piece, is amusical, or
can't accept the f***ing truth. Seriously guys.
The Fantasia starts so that both pieces end simultaneously.
Slight tempo fluctuations due to the organ player.
Nevertheless, *you WILL hea
Aye. Thank you, gentlemen.
Eugene
-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of
G. C.
Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2018 5:46 PM
To: lutelist Net
Subject: [LUTE] Re: John Bull's Fantasy XII is Raga Yaman
I agree with you Arto. Th
Tristan wrote to me directly without copying the list. Out of respect to
whatever his intent may be, I will not forward his personal reply. I will,
however, share my own replies to him:
"Yeah, I don't mind looking foolish. Given the semi-improvisatorial nature of
Indian classical music, any
Well then, let's make this public then.
Yes, you are living in darkness for not wanting to hear the relation!
You basically accuse me of being a con artist. This is not ok.
I don't even want your money, I am *giving* you my discovery for pure
joy of discovery.
Let's make this a challenge (thi
[1]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schenkerian_analysis
Perhaps the theoretical approach of Schenker would be helpful to
communicate the similarities you are finding between the Bull Fantasia,
Raga Yaman and maybe Castello. Schenker's system is based on the
dynamic pull of scale to
Thank you Susan!
I am aware of Schenker - I studied musicology back in the day.
This would be indeed the best approach, but I guess it is possible to
find the exact match when analyzing just what is there.
Indian understanding - as it appears to me - basically *is* Schenkerian,
so I guess this s
I've conceded that i do hear. I will also concede to the possibility of
interaction and influence, but not necessarily to "based upon" without greater
evidence. I do not believe you to be a con artist and would not want to imply
such. (My "joke" reference was regarding your seemingly comical
Excellent suggestion.
Eugene
-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of
Susan Sandman
Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2018 10:32 AM
To: Tristan von Neumann
Cc: lutelist Net
Subject: [LUTE] Re: John Bull's Fantasy XII is Raga Yaman
I listened, but only a little, because I found the sound to be so
horrible I just could not stand it. So whatever the musicological
arguments, it is just not musical, IMHO.
A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters
Francisco Goya
On Feb 7, 2018, at 5
Thanks Ron,
Yes, I agree in this matter. We canât be sure about Burwellâs intentions.
In general she seems to contradict herself from time to time. For example once
she writes: âGaultier of England is excellent, for the goodnes of his hands
the most swift the neatest and most even that e
I have decided to post this anyway
(this is for you, Gene!)
100% match. No excuse for "coincidence". This is consciously planned to
the detail.
About choosing the point of alignment: it is always the beginning or the
ending, depending what piece is longer. I never cheat.
This also confir
You might want to organize a concert, where the musicians play together.
Maybe you will then see. It's fun anyway!
Am 08.02.2018 um 17:17 schrieb John Mardinly:
I listened, but only a little, because I found the sound to be so
horrible I just could not stand it. So whatever the musicolog
I agree perfectly.
Eugene
-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of
Ron Andrico
Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2018 11:32 AM
To: Susan Sandman; Tristan von Neumann
Cc: lutelist Net
Subject: [LUTE] Re: John Bull's Fantasy XII is Raga
You gotta be kidding me. Aside from being aurally hideous, it is so
ludicrous even Peter Schickele would not present it as a joke.
A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters
Francisco Goya
On Feb 8, 2018, at 10:20 AM, Tristan von Neumann
<[1]tristanvo
If a mashup counts as "evidence", then I humbly submit for the list's
consideration the following:
[1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OYkWSW7u4k&;
#bigiftrue #staywoke #wakeupsheeple
What blows my mind is how incredibly confrontational your tone is in
nearly everything you post
I'm sorry, Dr. John.
I can't take you seriously any more.
I am sorry that I do not have a harpsichordist, pro lutist and Indian
Singer plus tabla at my disposal to provide you with ad hoc recordings
of musicians actually playing together!
I'm not a trained sound engineer!
You are a Dr., so y
It sounds remarkably like a lute player trying to play Dowland in a room where
a group of Indian musicians is busy playing a raga.
In this respect it differs from your John Bull concoctions, which sound like
something Charles Ives might have composed had he gone to Maharishi Mahesh
Yogi’s ash
it's not a mash-up, I *DID NOT EDIT THE TRACKS*
I just placed them above each other and pitched the lute to the pitch of
the Raga!
How do you expect to do editing in 30 mins??
here are the original source tracks:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnbbk7_tFDo
(this reveals the identity of
You seem to conflate "I have heard, concede many of your points, but am not yet
convinced of your conclusion and remain open to other possibilities" with "I
have heard, you are wrong, and my disapproval constitutes an attack on your
person." The former represents my intent and is what I conside
Are you all tone-deaf??? Of course the microtones blur a little, but you
should as musicians be able to hear past that to the essence!
Do you not hear the same GESTURES? In case of Dowland this isn't even
disharmonic!
I begin to suspect you are envious of my discovery. Your disbelief is
unre
Tristan;
Here is the comment from my sister, BS Voice, New England Conservatory,
Ph.D. Musicology Hartford Conservatory:
"I have encountered many who overdo connections, like this guy!!"
It's not just me.
A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters
I technically posted an example of quodlibet. But what you've done is
in fact precisely the same as a mashup, wherein two disparate source
pieces are overlaid, often with one source requiring a change of pitch
and/or tempo. Mashups don't mean that you've edited the parts, that
would
Excellent find, Jacob. Clearly someone has too much free time on their
hands.
A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters
Francisco Goya
On Feb 8, 2018, at 11:39 AM, Jacob Johnson <[1]tmrguitar...@gmail.com>
wrote:
If a mashup counts as "evidence
Thanks for actually showing it to her!
have you played the whole bunch?
btw if it were coincidence, it should work on any piece of music.
That's just not the case. I tried.
Please show her the Dowland mix, and please let her explain how the
modulations are possible everytime if this is just c
Doctor's Orders:
The patient is to calm down by listening to some real "east meets west"
music, in the form of Ravi Shankar meets Yehudi Menuhin, to relax fom
his overexited state of mind.
A cup of bhang lassi before bedtime is also adviced.
Best
G.
On Thu, Feb 8, 2018 at 1
so what do you expect?
If I presented a book with Ragas in one staff mensural notation from
Sweelinck's attic, your answer would probably be "these are just
solmization exercises"...
If you don't want to believe, you wouldn't even believe me if Sweelinck
told you himself...
I have seen this
Well thanks for the hint :)
..and I'm leaving the lutelist.
This is just a waste of time. My contacts know where I am.
--->unsubscribe
Am 08.02.2018 um 20:33 schrieb G. C.:
Doctor's Orders:
The patient is to calm down by listening to some real "east meets west"
music, in the form
> On Feb 8, 2018, at 11:36 AM, Tristan von Neumann
> wrote:
>
> If I presented a book with Ragas in one staff mensural notation from
> Sweelinck's attic, your answer would probably be "these are just solmization
> exercises"…
I’d have questions about its authenticity (who would be writing do
From J&J Lubrano ( http://www.lubranomusic.com/ ) in the New
Acquisitions for February I spotted two engravings of possible interest
here. Also check the "Details" link.
>
#1 Ludovico Ariosto by James Walker (1800) $500
#13 The famous portrait of Jacques Gautier by Jan Lievens
Jacques' hands remind me of Segovia.
G.
--
To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
No need for u*n*s*u*b*s here. That's just being wimpy. Get it together
man, this is just a teeny weeny lute list, there should be room for all
of us, trolls and heroes alike :)
Best
G.
--
To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-a
I do hear similarities between the two. But I hear similarities among
lots of musics â from Steve Reich to "space music" to troubadour songs
in similar modes, and do not think it means direct contact or
transmission of the sort I think you are asserting.
I find the unique musical ge
My thought exactly: Ravi + Yehudi was cool. Django and Stephane too were
cool. Or that Indian guy, George Harrison, playing the sitar on a
Beatles song. Even Gogol Bordello is a good mix. All physicists will
tell you: fusion is very difficult to do well. Miles Davis flunked it.
On 02/08/2018
You've convinced me!
Eugene
-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of
G. C.
Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2018 2:34 PM
To: lutelist Net
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Sweelinck's Echo Fantasia ex A is a *direct copy* of Raga
Asawari
Doct
Yep, and Apes don't look like Humans. There is no other relation
whatsoever, pure coincidence that they look alike
If you had listened as much to the tracks while finding the right spot
to make it sound ok without too much manipulation, you would notice more
that just modes.
But as I said
Question: Did Miles flunk it?
Answer: Well, that should perhaps be kept in the ears of the
behearer...
Question: But the whole "fusion" setup, musically, wasn't it /isn't it
now, so "Dated".
Answer: But look at what came out of it, Keith Jarrett f. ex.
Question: Was he kinda at
Dear lutenists
Here is my favorite eastern-western music from my youth:
THE PAUL BUTTERFIELD BLUES BAND - EAST WEST (1966)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwMqBvBLJio
(btw: that is good music even today! :-) )
Perhaps Tristan will find some similiar ragas?
best,
Arto
On 09/02/18 01:57, Tris
Kiitos Arto, minä tykkät hyväin kitarristin. Cool album
On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 1:14 AM, Arto Wikla <[1]wi...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
wrote:
Dear lutenists
Here is my favorite eastern-western music from my youth:
THE PAUL BUTTERFIELD BLUES BAND - EAST WEST (1966)
My favorite east meets west: John McLaughlin and Shakti. Check out Happiness is
Being Together. On YouTube.
> On Feb 8, 2018, at 6:31 PM, G. C. wrote:
>
> Kiitos Arto, minä tykkät hyväin kitarristin. Cool album
>
> On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 1:14 AM, Arto Wikla <[1]wi...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
>
I played with a Bollywood band last November, does that count?
See programmes (and Frisch' interesting book on these) by Le Baroque
Nomade or Jordi Savall's Xavier album for musically inspired
intercultural fusion in early music.
Or the Italian baroque sonata's composed by Petrini at
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