Re: A branded USB stick as an alternative to the CD set?

[Tati Chevron]

On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 08:31:54PM +, Stuart Henderson wrote:

On 2015-11-30, Tati Chevron  wrote:

in my case, a USB stick would be actually useful for installing machines
-- unlike the CD sets (I haven't had a working optical drive in the last
5+ years). Any chance for 5.9?


I would buy an official release on USB or preferably sd card, if it
was on offer. Presumably the production costs would be less as well.


Cloning CDs from a master is something that can be farmed out
relatively easily. Writing an image to USB/SD, not so much, especially
when you're going to want that to be done securely.


To be honest, my original thought was of a masked rom packaged in a USB or
SD card device, not somebody manually writing standard flash drives with
an image.  However, I totally agree now that I had a momentary lapse into
the surreal, posting without thinking, and irritated Theo.  Sorry for the
noise.


And who is going to trust this? There's a significantly higher bar
to invisibly tampering with a pressed and printed CD than a USB stick.


Again, the original idea wasn't mine.  I commented on the thread, but in
my mind, I imagined receiving the install source on a medium that had the
same bar to tampering as a CD, such as masked rom.  I wasn't thinking of
a standard USB flash device with a glued write-protect switch.  My original
post was a mixture of various thoughts that shouldn't really have been posted
without further consideration.

--
Tati Chevron
Perl and FORTRAN specialist.
SWABSIT development and migration department.
http://www.swabsit.com

Re: A branded USB stick as an alternative to the CD set?

[Theo de Raadt]

> Software development.  :D
> 
> More importantly, what can users do to make it easier for developers to
> write code? That is the important question to ask when a thought like this
> comes up.  Is it more efficient of developer time for me to purchase my own
> usb stick and deal with it myself, or request developers offer a usb
> alternative?

I don't know, but I'll think about it later, because I am busy.

I am spending my day making a non-writeable USB stick for the OP.

Your question is important, so I'll get back to it.

Re: Fwd: CVS: cvs.openbsd.org: src

[Joerg Jung]

On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 04:48:05PM -0500, Daniel Ouellet wrote:
> Even removed the table password?

Yes.
 
> NO way anymore to have difference password for emails then the system
> password without smtp-extra install?

You may want to read table(5) the section about credentials tables.
 
> I can understand may be sqlite and ldap, but as a base system having
> different password from the system was and is very useful and I do it on
> all systems.

Still possible.

> Or am I missing something or miss understand the commit?

Yes, it looks like you never used table-passwd, 
that is why it is removed.


>  Forwarded Message 
> Subject: CVS: cvs.openbsd.org: src
> Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2015 12:54:26 -0700 (MST)
> From: Joerg Jung 
> To: source-chan...@openbsd.org
> 
> CVSROOT:  /cvs
> Module name:  src
> Changes by:   j...@cvs.openbsd.org2015/11/30 12:54:26
> 
> Modified files:
>   usr.sbin/smtpd : Makefile
> Removed files:
>   usr.sbin/smtpd : aldap.c aldap.h ber.c ber.h table_ldap.c
>table_passwd.5 table_passwd.c table_sqlite.c
>   usr.sbin/smtpd/table-ldap: Makefile
>   usr.sbin/smtpd/table-passwd: Makefile
>   usr.sbin/smtpd/table-sqlite: Makefile
> 
> Log message:
> remove table-passwd, table-sqlite, and table-ldap
> about 4k lines seldom used code
> 
> people who rely on this install mail/opensmtpd-extras
> 
> direction discussed (and agreed) with many
> 
> ok gilles

Re: A branded USB stick as an alternative to the CD set?

[Giancarlo Razzolini]

Em 30-11-2015 19:34, Theo de Raadt escreveu:
> These days the CD revenue is about what a cashier at a store makes.

This is truly sad, to not say tragical.

>
> It seems to keep shrinking, but I will try to keep doing it unless it
> nears zero; at which point the artwork will stop also.
>
> I'm not doing any of this as a business.  I believe the research and
> development that happens within OpenBSD is very important.  That's why
> I continue doing this.

And I think that most people here is very thankful for this.

>
> I cannot help but be insulted to the core when random 'people on the
> internet' selfishly or unthinkingly misunderstand the focus of OpenBSD
> as a R project, and recommend an even more broken business plan
> which nobody needs or wants.  Frankly, it ruins my day.
>
> For the time, I am on a small bursary as well from some people who
> understand the importance, otherwise I'd be looking for a cashier job.

I really don't want to see this happen, but I'd imagine you wouldn't
stress yourself as much.

Keep the good work,
Giancarlo Razzolini

Fwd: CVS: cvs.openbsd.org: src

[Daniel Ouellet]

Even removed the table password?

NO way anymore to have difference password for emails then the system
password without smtp-extra install?

I can understand may be sqlite and ldap, but as a base system having
different password from the system was and is very useful and I do it on
all systems.

Or am I missing something or miss understand the commit?



 Forwarded Message 
Subject: CVS: cvs.openbsd.org: src
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2015 12:54:26 -0700 (MST)
From: Joerg Jung 
To: source-chan...@openbsd.org

CVSROOT:/cvs
Module name:src
Changes by: j...@cvs.openbsd.org2015/11/30 12:54:26

Modified files:
usr.sbin/smtpd : Makefile
Removed files:
usr.sbin/smtpd : aldap.c aldap.h ber.c ber.h table_ldap.c
 table_passwd.5 table_passwd.c table_sqlite.c
usr.sbin/smtpd/table-ldap: Makefile
usr.sbin/smtpd/table-passwd: Makefile
usr.sbin/smtpd/table-sqlite: Makefile

Log message:
remove table-passwd, table-sqlite, and table-ldap
about 4k lines seldom used code

people who rely on this install mail/opensmtpd-extras

direction discussed (and agreed) with many

ok gilles

Re: A branded USB stick as an alternative to the CD set?

[Petr Ročkai]

Theo de Raadt  writes:
> I don't know, but I'll think about it later, because I am busy.
> I am spending my day making a non-writeable USB stick for the OP.

That's nice. Although a simple 'no' would have sufficed of course. I
have been told that buying CD sets is useful for the project, but I have
no use for CDs. That's all. Maybe I could get a poster instead...

-- 
id' Ash = Ash; id' Dust = Dust; id' _ = undefined

Re: A branded USB stick as an alternative to the CD set?

[Theo de Raadt]

> >>(Making them unconditionally read-only would be probably a good thing,
> >>too.)
> >
> > This, too, I see a value in.
> 
> And who is going to trust this? There's a significantly higher bar
> to invisibly tampering with a pressed and printed CD than a USB stick.
> (Also it kind-of makes the previous request an impossibility...)

It looks like entitlement.com makes a cheap USB stick with write-protection.

Re: A branded USB stick as an alternative to the CD set?

[Giancarlo Razzolini]

Em 30-11-2015 19:03, Tati Chevron escreveu:
> Again, the original idea wasn't mine.  I commented on the thread, but in
> my mind, I imagined receiving the install source on a medium that had the
> same bar to tampering as a CD, such as masked rom.  I wasn't thinking of
> a standard USB flash device with a glued write-protect switch.  My
> original
> post was a mixture of various thoughts that shouldn't really have been
> posted
> without further consideration. 
I don't know if most people are aware of this, but this has been
discussed on this list many times. The income of CD sales are what "kind
of" pays for Theo full time involvement with OpenBSD. I say "kind of"
because sales, as he already mentioned, are going down and down each
release. Don't have a CD reader on the machine? Buy them anyway and opt
out of the delivery. You can download the iso from the internet, safely
verify them and write your own USB stick with it. And Theo gets pay for
the wonderful job he (and others of course) do with OpenBSD.

Cheers,
Giancarlo Razzolini

Re: A branded USB stick as an alternative to the CD set?

[Theo de Raadt]

> >> I would buy an official release on USB or preferably sd card, if it
> >> was on offer. Presumably the production costs would be less as well.
> >
> >Cloning CDs from a master is something that can be farmed out
> >relatively easily. Writing an image to USB/SD, not so much, especially
> >when you're going to want that to be done securely.
> 
> To be honest, my original thought was of a masked rom packaged in a USB or
> SD card device, not somebody manually writing standard flash drives with
> an image.  However, I totally agree now that I had a momentary lapse into
> the surreal, posting without thinking, and irritated Theo.  Sorry for the
> noise.

I've looked into this a bit before.  The setup cost is above $50,000
per release.

I wonder why we don't see piles of masked rom USB sticks from other
sources

But anyways I'll send you a private mail describing the part you can
play in this as a 50% stakeholder, and the amount you can expect to
lose every release.  (I am assuming the OP is the other stakeholder; I
am already making insufficient income off my labour every release and
am not willing to dig myself a deeper hole, so I cannot participate).

> Again, the original idea wasn't mine.  I commented on the thread, but in
> my mind, I imagined receiving the install source on a medium that had the
> same bar to tampering as a CD, such as masked rom.  I wasn't thinking of
> a standard USB flash device with a glued write-protect switch.  My original
> post was a mixture of various thoughts that shouldn't really have been posted
> without further consideration.

So the original idea wasn't yours.  And now you think it can't work.
And you are still talking about it.  I see.  Very interesting.

This email thing is fascinating.

Re: whats wrong with me?

[Alexander Salmin]

On 2015-11-30 20:52, Krzysztof Strzeszewski wrote:

Hi,
whats wrong?:

httpd: could not parse macro definition SSL
httpd[21336]: server_tls_init: failed to configure TLS - failed to read
private key: Operation not supported by device


Krzysztof Strzeszewski

Hey Krzysztof,

Two reasons why you did not receive much feedback on this.
- You did not supply OpenBSD version (uname -a) so we can't replicate 
with same version.

- You did not provide httpd.conf(8) so we can't replicate your exact setup.

A key to good free online OpenBSD support is to; "Always provide as much 
information as possible. Try to pin-point the exact problem. Give clear 
instructions on how to reproduce the problem. Try to describe the 
problem with as much accuracy and non-confusing terminology as possible, 
especially if it is not easy to reproduce." // 
http://www.openbsd.org/report.html


Continue to fail this and the world will just lead to sadness and despair.

Alexander

Re: A branded USB stick as an alternative to the CD set?

[Theo de Raadt]

> Em 30-11-2015 19:03, Tati Chevron escreveu:
> > Again, the original idea wasn't mine.  I commented on the thread, but in
> > my mind, I imagined receiving the install source on a medium that had the
> > same bar to tampering as a CD, such as masked rom.  I wasn't thinking of
> > a standard USB flash device with a glued write-protect switch.  My
> > original
> > post was a mixture of various thoughts that shouldn't really have been
> > posted
> > without further consideration. 
> I don't know if most people are aware of this, but this has been
> discussed on this list many times. The income of CD sales are what "kind
> of" pays for Theo full time involvement with OpenBSD. I say "kind of"
> because sales, as he already mentioned, are going down and down each
> release.

These days the CD revenue is about what a cashier at a store makes.

It seems to keep shrinking, but I will try to keep doing it unless it
nears zero; at which point the artwork will stop also.

I'm not doing any of this as a business.  I believe the research and
development that happens within OpenBSD is very important.  That's why
I continue doing this.

I cannot help but be insulted to the core when random 'people on the
internet' selfishly or unthinkingly misunderstand the focus of OpenBSD
as a R project, and recommend an even more broken business plan
which nobody needs or wants.  Frankly, it ruins my day.

For the time, I am on a small bursary as well from some people who
understand the importance, otherwise I'd be looking for a cashier job.

A branded USB stick as an alternative to the CD set?

[Petr Ročkai]

Hi,

in my case, a USB stick would be actually useful for installing machines
-- unlike the CD sets (I haven't had a working optical drive in the last
5+ years). Any chance for 5.9? (Making them unconditionally read-only
would be probably a good thing, too.)

M.

-- 
id' Ash = Ash; id' Dust = Dust; id' _ = undefined

Re: Meaning of '+', '*' in disk: hd0+ hd1+* hd2*

[Alexander Salmin]

The '+' character after the "hd0" indicates that the BIOS has told /boot 
that this disk can be accessed via LBA. When doing a first-time install, 
you will sometimes see a '*' after a hard disk -- this indicates a disk 
that does not seem to have a valid OpenBSD disk label on it.


http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq14.html#Boot386


On 2015-11-30 19:28, edward wandasiewicz wrote:

If I have the following showing after a probe during biosboot

disk: hd0+ hd1+* h2*

What is the meaning of '+', '+*' and '*' next to each disk?

Edward.

Re: Meaning of '+', '*' in disk: hd0+ hd1+* hd2*

[edward wandasiewicz]

On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 6:39 PM, Alexander Salmin  wrote:
> The '+' character after the "hd0" indicates that the BIOS has told /boot
> that this disk can be accessed via LBA. When doing a first-time install, you
> will sometimes see a '*' after a hard disk -- this indicates a disk that
> does not seem to have a valid OpenBSD disk label on it.
>
> http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq14.html#Boot386

So hd2* means

- cannot be accessed via LBA
- no OpenBSD disklabel

Edward.
>
>
>
> On 2015-11-30 19:28, edward wandasiewicz wrote:
>>
>> If I have the following showing after a probe during biosboot
>>
>> disk: hd0+ hd1+* h2*
>>
>> What is the meaning of '+', '+*' and '*' next to each disk?
>>
>> Edward.

Re: Meaning of '+', '*' in disk: hd0+ hd1+* hd2*

[Ted Unangst]

edward wandasiewicz wrote:
> If I have the following showing after a probe during biosboot
> 
> disk: hd0+ hd1+* h2*
> 
> What is the meaning of '+', '+*' and '*' next to each disk?

+ means big disk support.

* means no openbsd disklabel. probably not the openbsd disk.

kernel panic - panic: ehci_device_clear_toggle: queue active

[Björn Ketelaars]

Hello,

I repeatedly hit the kernel panic below. Easy to reproduce as it happens over
and over again within 60 minutes after rebooting. Root cause is not known.

I'm running snapshot on an USB stick. I tried different USB ports with the same
result. Next step will be an attempt with a different USB stick.

I think this issue has been mentioned before:

https://marc.info/?t=14184059141=1=3
http://openbsd-archive.7691.n7.nabble.com/panic-ehci-device-clear-toggle-queue-active-td231729.html
http://article.gmane.org/gmane.os.openbsd.bugs/19812/

Any ideas on how to tackle this issue?

-- 
Björn Ketelaars
GPG key: 0x4F0E5F21



OpenBSD 5.8-current (GENERIC.MP) #0: Mon Nov 30 08:22:20 CET 2015

r...@gateway.lan:/storage/8899fc1454db04de.a/home/code/src/sys/arch/amd64/compile/GENERIC.MP
real mem = 4242419712 (4045MB)
avail mem = 4109725696 (3919MB)
mpath0 at root
scsibus0 at mpath0: 256 targets
mainbus0 at root
bios0 at mainbus0: SMBIOS rev. 2.7 @ 0xf3bdb000 (64 entries)
bios0: vendor HP version "J06" date 11/09/2013
bios0: HP ProLiant MicroServer Gen8
acpi0 at bios0: rev 2
acpi0: sleep states S0 S4 S5
acpi0: tables DSDT FACP SPCR MCFG HPET  SPMI ERST APIC  BERT HEST  
 SSDT SSDT SSDT SSDT SSDT
acpi0: wakeup devices PCI0(S4)
acpitimer0 at acpi0: 3579545 Hz, 24 bits
acpimcfg0 at acpi0 addr 0xf400, bus 0-63
acpihpet0 at acpi0: 14318179 Hz
acpimadt0 at acpi0 addr 0xfee0: PC-AT compat
cpu0 at mainbus0: apid 0 (boot processor)
cpu0: Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU G1610T @ 2.30GHz, 2295.13 MHz
cpu0: 
FPU,VME,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CFLUSH,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,PBE,SSE3,PCLMUL,DTES64,MWAIT,DS-CPL,VMX,EST,TM2,SSSE3,CX16,xTPR,PDCM,PCID,SSE4.1,SSE4.2,POPCNT,DEADLINE,XSAVE,NXE,LONG,LAHF,PERF,ITSC,FSGSBASE,SMEP,ERMS,SENSOR,ARAT
cpu0: 256KB 64b/line 8-way L2 cache
cpu0: smt 0, core 0, package 0
mtrr: Pentium Pro MTRR support, 10 var ranges, 88 fixed ranges
cpu0: apic clock running at 99MHz
cpu0: mwait min=64, max=64, C-substates=0.2.1.1, IBE
cpu1 at mainbus0: apid 2 (application processor)
cpu1: Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU G1610T @ 2.30GHz, 2294.79 MHz
cpu1: 
FPU,VME,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CFLUSH,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,PBE,SSE3,PCLMUL,DTES64,MWAIT,DS-CPL,VMX,EST,TM2,SSSE3,CX16,xTPR,PDCM,PCID,SSE4.1,SSE4.2,POPCNT,DEADLINE,XSAVE,NXE,LONG,LAHF,PERF,ITSC,FSGSBASE,SMEP,ERMS,SENSOR,ARAT
cpu1: 256KB 64b/line 8-way L2 cache
cpu1: smt 0, core 1, package 0
ioapic0 at mainbus0: apid 8 pa 0xfec0, version 20, 24 pins
ioapic0: misconfigured as apic 0, remapped to apid 8
acpiprt0 at acpi0: bus 13 (IPT1)
acpiprt1 at acpi0: bus -1 (IPT2)
acpiprt2 at acpi0: bus -1 (IPT3)
acpiprt3 at acpi0: bus -1 (IPT4)
acpiprt4 at acpi0: bus 3 (IPT5)
acpiprt5 at acpi0: bus -1 (IPT6)
acpiprt6 at acpi0: bus 4 (IPT7)
acpiprt7 at acpi0: bus 1 (IPT8)
acpiprt8 at acpi0: bus 7 (PT02)
acpiprt9 at acpi0: bus -1 (PT03)
acpiprt10 at acpi0: bus 2 (PT05)
acpiprt11 at acpi0: bus 0 (PCI0)
acpicpu0 at acpi0: C2(350@96 mwait.1@0x20), C1(1000@1 mwait.1)
acpicpu1 at acpi0: C2(350@96 mwait.1@0x20), C1(1000@1 mwait.1)
acpitz0 at acpi0: critical temperature is 31 degC
ipmi at mainbus0 not configured
pci0 at mainbus0 bus 0
pchb0 at pci0 dev 0 function 0 "Intel Core 3G Host" rev 0x09
ppb0 at pci0 dev 1 function 0 "Intel Core 3G PCIE" rev 0x09: msi
pci1 at ppb0 bus 7
ppb1 at pci0 dev 6 function 0 "Intel Core 3G PCIE" rev 0x09: msi
pci2 at ppb1 bus 2
ehci0 at pci0 dev 26 function 0 "Intel 6 Series USB" rev 0x05: apic 8 int 21
usb0 at ehci0: USB revision 2.0
uhub0 at usb0 "Intel EHCI root hub" rev 2.00/1.00 addr 1
ppb2 at pci0 dev 28 function 0 "Intel 6 Series PCIE" rev 0xb5
pci3 at ppb2 bus 13
ppb3 at pci0 dev 28 function 4 "Intel 6 Series PCIE" rev 0xb5
pci4 at ppb3 bus 3
bge0 at pci4 dev 0 function 0 "Broadcom BCM5720" rev 0x00, BCM5720 A0 
(0x572), APE firmware NCSI 1.2.46.0: msi, address d0:bf:9c:46:de:14
brgphy0 at bge0 phy 1: BCM5720C 10/100/1000baseT PHY, rev. 0
bge1 at pci4 dev 0 function 1 "Broadcom BCM5720" rev 0x00, BCM5720 A0 
(0x572), APE firmware NCSI 1.2.46.0: msi, address d0:bf:9c:46:de:15
brgphy1 at bge1 phy 2: BCM5720C 10/100/1000baseT PHY, rev. 0
ppb4 at pci0 dev 28 function 6 "Intel 6 Series PCIE" rev 0xb5
pci5 at ppb4 bus 4
xhci0 at pci5 dev 0 function 0 "Renesas uPD720201 xHCI" rev 0x03: msi
usb1 at xhci0: USB revision 3.0
uhub1 at usb1 "Renesas xHCI root hub" rev 3.00/1.00 addr 1
ppb5 at pci0 dev 28 function 7 "Intel 6 Series PCIE" rev 0xb5
pci6 at ppb5 bus 1
"Hewlett-Packard iLO3 Slave" rev 0x05 at pci6 dev 0 function 0 not configured
vga1 at pci6 dev 0 function 1 "Matrox MGA G200eH" rev 0x00
wsdisplay0 at vga1 mux 1: console (80x25, vt100 emulation)
wsdisplay0: screen 1-5 added (80x25, vt100 emulation)
"Hewlett-Packard iLO3 Management" rev 0x05 at pci6 dev 0 function 2 not 
configured
uhci0 at pci6 dev 0 function 4 "Hewlett-Packard USB" rev 0x02: apic 8 int 16
usb2 at uhci0: USB revision 1.0
uhub2 at usb2 "Hewlett-Packard 

Meaning of '+', '*' in disk: hd0+ hd1+* hd2*

[edward wandasiewicz]

If I have the following showing after a probe during biosboot

disk: hd0+ hd1+* h2*

What is the meaning of '+', '+*' and '*' next to each disk?

Edward.

Re: Meaning of '+', '*' in disk: hd0+ hd1+* hd2*

[edward wandasiewicz]

Many thanks. I knew it was man paged / documented somewhere, just
couldn't find it.

Reason for asking?

I have a USB 3.0 device attached to a Chromebook Pixel 2015, and on
booting, SeaBIOS is recognising the same single USB drive twice, as
hd1+* and hd2*.

hd0 is the soldered SSD.

...Looks like two separate issues are occurring - the Philips drive is
being detected as both a high speed device and as a super speed
device.  I need a log with CONFIG_DEBUG_LEVEL=5 to diagnose that...

See http://www.seabios.org/pipermail/seabios/2015-November/010058.html

Edward.

On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 6:54 PM, Ted Unangst  wrote:
> edward wandasiewicz wrote:
>> If I have the following showing after a probe during biosboot
>>
>> disk: hd0+ hd1+* h2*
>>
>> What is the meaning of '+', '+*' and '*' next to each disk?
>
> + means big disk support.
>
> * means no openbsd disklabel. probably not the openbsd disk.

Re: A branded USB stick as an alternative to the CD set?

[Devin Reade]

I suspect the answer is that this falls into the category of too
expensive/distracting to bother, based on the overall benefit.

I find that having a DVD reader/writer in an external USB-connected
enclosure works well for optical-diskless machines.

Devin

Re: A branded USB stick as an alternative to the CD set?

[Tati Chevron]

in my case, a USB stick would be actually useful for installing machines
-- unlike the CD sets (I haven't had a working optical drive in the last
5+ years). Any chance for 5.9?


I would buy an official release on USB or preferably sd card, if it was on 
offer.  Presumably the production costs would be less as well.

(And also..  not liking to complain, but the last two CD releases have had 
irritating bugs in them.  Disc 2 of 5.7 was fubar, and had to be replaced, and 
the source tree on 5.8 wasn't correct either.  At least on flash memory, 
problems could be cheaply and easily corrected at the last minute ;-) )

Our machines do generally have optical drives, but for some reason, blu-ray 
readers reading CDs seem to do so painfully slowly.


(Making them unconditionally read-only would be probably a good thing,
too.)


This, too, I see a value in.

Also, on a related note, would anybody be interested in having the source code 
for the freely distributable parts of the ports tree available on BD-R?  It 
just about fits on a single layer disc and is very convenient when you're a 
long way from a fast internet connection...

--
Tati Chevron
Perl and FORTRAN specialist.
SWABSIT development and migration department.
http://www.swabsit.com

whats wrong

[Krzysztof Strzeszewski]

Hi,
whats wrong?:

httpd: could not parse macro definition SSL
httpd[21336]: server_tls_init: failed to configure TLS - failed to read
private key: Operation not supported by device


Krzysztof Strzeszewski

Re: A branded USB stick as an alternative to the CD set?

[Theo de Raadt]

> I would buy an official release on USB or preferably sd card, if it
> was on offer.  Presumably the production costs would be less as well.

 ^

How do you figure that?

We put everything on the internet.  Thousands upon thousands upon
thousands of downloads happen, and the more convenient it becomes the
fewer sales occur.  That is the nature of the situation.  USB devices
will be the same, except you cannot farm out "writing them" to just
anyone.

Production costs are not the problem.  The problem is that there
is ZERO RETURN on the effort taken.

I thank the crowd for once again suggesting we (me? people I know?)
should spend time on doing something which a very small handful of
people want.

I was going to work on some source code today, but I'll get right on
this task, pricing out USB sticks and trying to find a way to make
this work.  /sarc

> (And also..  not liking to complain, but the last two CD releases
> have had irritating bugs in them.  Disc 2 of 5.7 was fubar, and had to
> be replaced, and the source tree on 5.8 wasn't correct either.  At
> least on flash memory, problems could be cheaply and easily corrected
> at the last minute ;-) )

So you have a solution already.  But still, I should invest my time
at finding a good USB stick, oh it should have a write protect switch
that actually works, oh we need to use epoxy to glue it, oh and people
who will write each of them, and god help us if the usb sticks are bad
and have `irritating bugs'.  Come on people.  What do you want us to do?

Product manufacture, or software development?

Make up your mind.

Re: A branded USB stick as an alternative to the CD set?

[J Sisson]

Software development.  :D

More importantly, what can users do to make it easier for developers to
write code? That is the important question to ask when a thought like this
comes up.  Is it more efficient of developer time for me to purchase my own
usb stick and deal with it myself, or request developers offer a usb
alternative?
On Nov 30, 2015 12:17 PM, "Theo de Raadt"  wrote:

> > I would buy an official release on USB or preferably sd card, if it
> > was on offer.  Presumably the production costs would be less as well.
>
>  ^
>
> How do you figure that?
>
> We put everything on the internet.  Thousands upon thousands upon
> thousands of downloads happen, and the more convenient it becomes the
> fewer sales occur.  That is the nature of the situation.  USB devices
> will be the same, except you cannot farm out "writing them" to just
> anyone.
>
> Production costs are not the problem.  The problem is that there
> is ZERO RETURN on the effort taken.
>
> I thank the crowd for once again suggesting we (me? people I know?)
> should spend time on doing something which a very small handful of
> people want.
>
> I was going to work on some source code today, but I'll get right on
> this task, pricing out USB sticks and trying to find a way to make
> this work.  /sarc
>
> > (And also..  not liking to complain, but the last two CD releases
> > have had irritating bugs in them.  Disc 2 of 5.7 was fubar, and had to
> > be replaced, and the source tree on 5.8 wasn't correct either.  At
> > least on flash memory, problems could be cheaply and easily corrected
> > at the last minute ;-) )
>
> So you have a solution already.  But still, I should invest my time
> at finding a good USB stick, oh it should have a write protect switch
> that actually works, oh we need to use epoxy to glue it, oh and people
> who will write each of them, and god help us if the usb sticks are bad
> and have `irritating bugs'.  Come on people.  What do you want us to do?
>
> Product manufacture, or software development?
>
> Make up your mind.

Re: A branded USB stick as an alternative to the CD set?

[Stuart Henderson]

On 2015-11-30, Tati Chevron  wrote:
>>in my case, a USB stick would be actually useful for installing machines
>>-- unlike the CD sets (I haven't had a working optical drive in the last
>>5+ years). Any chance for 5.9?
>
> I would buy an official release on USB or preferably sd card, if it
> was on offer. Presumably the production costs would be less as well.

Cloning CDs from a master is something that can be farmed out
relatively easily. Writing an image to USB/SD, not so much, especially
when you're going to want that to be done securely.

> (And also.. not liking to complain, but the last two CD releases have
> had irritating bugs in them. Disc 2 of 5.7 was fubar, and had to be
> replaced, and the source tree on 5.8 wasn't correct either. At least on
> flash memory, problems could be cheaply and easily corrected at the last
> minute ;-) )

Who is going to update these? Especially at short notice.

>>(Making them unconditionally read-only would be probably a good thing,
>>too.)
>
> This, too, I see a value in.

And who is going to trust this? There's a significantly higher bar
to invisibly tampering with a pressed and printed CD than a USB stick.
(Also it kind-of makes the previous request an impossibility...)

Re: A branded USB stick as an alternative to the CD set?

[Daniel Ouellet]

On 11/30/15 8:43 PM, Theo de Raadt wrote:
>> On Nov 30, 2015, at 2:34 PM, Theo de Raadt  wrote:
>>>
>>> These days the CD revenue is about what a cashier at a store makes.
> 
> Uncertain of the veracity of this site,
> 
> http://www.payscale.com/research/CA/Job=Cashier/Hourly_Rate/725daaa6/Entry-Level-Calgary-AB
> 
> I was wrong.  the CD revenue is far less.  The cashier makes more.

Sorry to read that!

Got every CD from when I started, only missing 2.1, 2.2 and 2.4 on my
self. And a few copy of the same are there too and given to friends.

The good news if any, is that Gifts are tax free in Canada, so that part
is helpful and users should fell they get more out of their money freely
given as a gift.

http://www.taxtips.ca/personaltax/giftsandinheritances.htm

Now to be clear Theo, are donation via the paypal on the donations page
are directly to you and you can do as you see fit, and/or only checks
would be best?

I know that was discuss a few times on this list, just try to be clear
as it is now, and I can setup paypal and do recurring gifts to
compensate some for the sad CD sales reduction and if so, I sure would
encourage users to do the same so that you can continue to do what you
love and what we all benefit from obviously!

I know first hand that most of the time work of love is not always well
paid!

Last thing I want to see is you loose your Love and Passion for my
favorite OS that even pass to my sons and one see why and start to be a
big advocate of it as well.

Nice to see family traditions be pass around like this, so I want to
make sure this continue so that may be my grand son will use it too! (:>

I know I will tell in him/here the old days, that's what grandpa used! (:>

Daniel

Re: A branded USB stick as an alternative to the CD set?

[Christoph R. Murauer]

>> Em 30-11-2015 19:03, Tati Chevron escreveu:
>> > Again, the original idea wasn't mine.  I commented on the thread,
>> but in
>> > my mind, I imagined receiving the install source on a medium that
>> had the
>> > same bar to tampering as a CD, such as masked rom.  I wasn't
>> thinking of
>> > a standard USB flash device with a glued write-protect switch.  My
>> > original
>> > post was a mixture of various thoughts that shouldn't really have
>> been
>> > posted
>> > without further consideration.
>> I don't know if most people are aware of this, but this has been
>> discussed on this list many times. The income of CD sales are what
>> "kind
>> of" pays for Theo full time involvement with OpenBSD. I say "kind
>> of"
>> because sales, as he already mentioned, are going down and down each
>> release.
>
> These days the CD revenue is about what a cashier at a store makes.
>
> It seems to keep shrinking, but I will try to keep doing it unless it
> nears zero; at which point the artwork will stop also.
>
> I'm not doing any of this as a business.  I believe the research and
> development that happens within OpenBSD is very important.  That's why
> I continue doing this.
>
> I cannot help but be insulted to the core when random 'people on the
> internet' selfishly or unthinkingly misunderstand the focus of OpenBSD
> as a R project, and recommend an even more broken business plan
> which nobody needs or wants.  Frankly, it ruins my day.

As more as I read, as more I understand you.

> For the time, I am on a small bursary as well from some people who
> understand the importance, otherwise I'd be looking for a cashier job.

Please, continue it for the people which understand it or, which are
interested in it. Thanks.

Re: A branded USB stick as an alternative to the CD set?

[Bryan Vyhmeister]

Let's not waste any more of Theo's time. USB sticks are not the magic
device that some seem to think. Some are not very reliable and prone to
failure. I've had very mixed results with budget USB sticks in
particular. Going with a more expensive USB stick like a major brand
name *usually* turns out better but that's still no guarantee. If you
don't want a CD set, simply donate the amount the CD set costs directly
to the project. That provides funding for OpenBSD while also not wasting
anyone's time.

http://www.openbsd.org/donations.html

Bryan

Re: A branded USB stick as an alternative to the CD set?

[worik]

On 01/12/15 10:40, Petr Ročkai wrote:
> Theo de Raadt  writes:
>> I don't know, but I'll think about it later, because I am busy.
>> I am spending my day making a non-writeable USB stick for the OP.
> That's nice. Although a simple 'no' would have sufficed of course. I
> have been told that buying CD sets is useful for the project, but I have
> no use for CDs. That's all. Maybe I could get a poster instead...
>

Wasting breath. 

Last time I tried the CD shop took money for not sending a CD.

CDs are a  waste of time for me too.  Not quite useless, but close.

But expressing other ideas here is a waste of breath. 

W

-- 
Why is the legal status of chardonnay different to that of cannabis? 
  r...@worik.org 021-1680650, (03) 4821804
  Aotearoa (New Zealand)
 I voted for love

Re: A branded USB stick as an alternative to the CD set?

[Balázs Nagy]

On Nov 30, 2015, at 2:34 PM, Theo de Raadt  wrote:
>
> These days the CD revenue is about what a cashier at a store makes.


I'm sick to my stomack when I read this.  I won't get into how unjust, unfair,
unethical this situation is, we all know that life is unfair.  We also all
know that Theo could have a high six figure, probably even seven figure salary
if he chose to. I don't think the issue is what new technology to deliver the
CD sets on.  I think the question is how to deliver Theo a recurring revenue
so that he gets to draw a salary that is at least somewhat commensurate with
his contribution to the IT industry. Just like a lot of us do recurring
contributions to the OpenBSD Foundation, we need to find a way to provide Theo
directly as well. Am I beeing too naive, am I missing somthing here?

Kind Regards,

Balázs

Network programs that only report error codes

[Michael McConville]

I realized that this has peeved me since I started Unixing. So, if you
know of anything in base that doesn't print network error strings,
please share publicly and I'll try to add them.

Re: A branded USB stick as an alternative to the CD set?

[Bryan Vyhmeister]

On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 06:20:02PM -0700, Bal??zs Nagy wrote:
> On Nov 30, 2015, at 2:34 PM, Theo de Raadt  wrote:
> >
> > These days the CD revenue is about what a cashier at a store makes.
> 
> I'm sick to my stomack when I read this. I won't get into how unjust,
> unfair, unethical this situation is, we all know that life is unfair.
> We also all know that Theo could have a high six figure, probably even
> seven figure salary if he chose to. I don't think the issue is what
> new technology to deliver the CD sets on. I think the question is how
> to deliver Theo a recurring revenue so that he gets to draw a salary
> that is at least somewhat commensurate with his contribution to the IT
> industry. Just like a lot of us do recurring contributions to the
> OpenBSD Foundation, we need to find a way to provide Theo directly as
> well. Am I beeing too naive, am I missing somthing here?

I agree completely. This is the core issue we need to look at and find
solutions to.

Bryan

Re: A branded USB stick as an alternative to the CD set?

[Theo de Raadt]

> On Nov 30, 2015, at 2:34 PM, Theo de Raadt  wrote:
> >
> > These days the CD revenue is about what a cashier at a store makes.

Uncertain of the veracity of this site,

http://www.payscale.com/research/CA/Job=Cashier/Hourly_Rate/725daaa6/Entry-Level-Calgary-AB

I was wrong.  the CD revenue is far less.  The cashier makes more.

Re: A branded USB stick as an alternative to the CD set?

[Giancarlo Razzolini]

Em 30-11-2015 20:10, Bryan Vyhmeister escreveu:
> Let's not waste any more of Theo's time. USB sticks are not the magic
> device that some seem to think. Some are not very reliable and prone to
> failure. I've had very mixed results with budget USB sticks in
> particular. Going with a more expensive USB stick like a major brand
> name *usually* turns out better but that's still no guarantee. If you
> don't want a CD set, simply donate the amount the CD set costs directly
> to the project. That provides funding for OpenBSD while also not wasting
> anyone's time.
>
> http://www.openbsd.org/donations.html
Let's just be clear that the CD's revenue (or non-revenue as it seems)
goes straight to Theo. Donations do the OpenBSD foundation doesn't, at
least not directly. So, in order to help him directly, buy the CD's but
do not get them delivery. That way Theo saves the shipping, and you
contribute directly to him. Which, isn't different from contributing to
OpenBSD.

Cheers,
Giancarlo Razzolini

Re: A branded USB stick as an alternative to the CD set?

[Theo de Raadt]

> Em 30-11-2015 20:10, Bryan Vyhmeister escreveu:
> > Let's not waste any more of Theo's time. USB sticks are not the magic
> > device that some seem to think. Some are not very reliable and prone to
> > failure. I've had very mixed results with budget USB sticks in
> > particular. Going with a more expensive USB stick like a major brand
> > name *usually* turns out better but that's still no guarantee. If you
> > don't want a CD set, simply donate the amount the CD set costs directly
> > to the project. That provides funding for OpenBSD while also not wasting
> > anyone's time.
> >
> > http://www.openbsd.org/donations.html
> Let's just be clear that the CD's revenue (or non-revenue as it seems)
> goes straight to Theo.

[...]

> Donations do the OpenBSD foundation doesn't, at least not directly.

That statement is full of potential for misunderstanding, and cannot
be left alone.

Let me correct that for you: Donations to the OpenBSD Foundation do
NOT COME TO ME AT ALL, neither directly nor indirectly.

As has been said many times before, the OpenBSD Foundation is
independent, and transparently publishes what they spend their money
on in their annual report.  You can go read their report, and notice
contributions to the OpenBSD Foundation do not provide me with any
income OF ANY SORT.

A lot of people decided they didn't trust the OpenBSD Project as it
was, or at least they would not fund it.  They didn't trust me alone
doing what I was doing since since oh when I was 24 or so.  They
insisted that a Foundation had to be created to handle funding.  So it
got created, and almost all donations head that way because it is most
effective for the good of the project.  That is fine and good, great
things happen as a result.  It has allowed the productivity of
hackathons to continue.

But that model does not help me.  Please don't give out the impression
that it does.  The dwindling effectiveness of the CD sales support
model is a bit of a worry.

I am a one-trick pony; most of you are happy with my trick, so please
don't start a fresh conversation asking me to develop more tricks.

Maybe I said too much; but I hope I have been crystal clear.

Re: Fwd: CVS: cvs.openbsd.org: src

[Gilles Chehade]

On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 05:45:25PM -0500, Daniel Ouellet wrote:
> On 11/30/15 4:58 PM, Joerg Jung wrote:
> > On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 04:48:05PM -0500, Daniel Ouellet wrote:
> >> Even removed the table password?
> > 
> > Yes.
> >  
> >> NO way anymore to have difference password for emails then the system
> >> password without smtp-extra install?
> > 
> > You may want to read table(5) the section about credentials tables.
> >  
> >> I can understand may be sqlite and ldap, but as a base system having
> >> different password from the system was and is very useful and I do it on
> >> all systems.
> > 
> > Still possible.
> > 
> >> Or am I missing something or miss understand the commit?
> > 
> > Yes, it looks like you never used table-passwd, 
> > that is why it is removed.
> 
> May be I miss used the name. Good to know.
>

yes, the name is confusing, table-passwd is not what you want.


> I was just starting to switch all my servers to use sqlite however
> because sqlite was in the base system too and it was easier to use after
> it wad configure. (:<
> 
> Oh well.
> 
> I will switch back to makemap then.
> 
> I hope I understand your explication as this being still valid:
> 
> table vusers db:/etc/mail/vusers.db
> table vdomains db:/etc/mail/vdomains.db
> 

yes, this is still valid


-- 
Gilles Chehade

https://www.poolp.org  @poolpOrg

Re: Fwd: CVS: cvs.openbsd.org: src

[Daniel Ouellet]

On 11/30/15 4:58 PM, Joerg Jung wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 04:48:05PM -0500, Daniel Ouellet wrote:
>> Even removed the table password?
> 
> Yes.
>  
>> NO way anymore to have difference password for emails then the system
>> password without smtp-extra install?
> 
> You may want to read table(5) the section about credentials tables.
>  
>> I can understand may be sqlite and ldap, but as a base system having
>> different password from the system was and is very useful and I do it on
>> all systems.
> 
> Still possible.
> 
>> Or am I missing something or miss understand the commit?
> 
> Yes, it looks like you never used table-passwd, 
> that is why it is removed.

May be I miss used the name. Good to know.

I was just starting to switch all my servers to use sqlite however
because sqlite was in the base system too and it was easier to use after
it wad configure. (:<

Oh well.

I will switch back to makemap then.

I hope I understand your explication as this being still valid:

table vusers db:/etc/mail/vusers.db
table vdomains db:/etc/mail/vdomains.db

Re: Is it possible to use pledge(2) to make something similar to firejail?

[Lampshade]

Thanks for answers.
@dan mclaughlin. But how to prevent attacker going out of chroot?
Do you think that this is possible to prevent this using pledge(2)?

Thanks for links. Especially Jonathan's "Re: making firefox less
insecure"
mail dated 2014-11-23 is worth reading for me. I wonder if
pledge(2), in theory, can be used to extend his program.

Re: A branded USB stick as an alternative to the CD set?

[Giancarlo Razzolini]

Em 30-11-2015 21:56, Theo de Raadt escreveu:
> But that model does not help me.  Please don't give out the impression
> that it does.  The dwindling effectiveness of the CD sales support
> model is a bit of a worry.
Sorry for creating that impression. It surely wasn't my intention. Now
you made it even more clear how things operate.

Cheers,
Giancarlo Razzolini

Re: A branded USB stick as an alternative to the CD set?

[Theo de Raadt]

> The good news if any, is that Gifts are tax free in Canada, so that part
> is helpful and users should fell they get more out of their money freely
> given as a gift.
> 
> http://www.taxtips.ca/personaltax/giftsandinheritances.htm

Correct, but be careful it will not be interpreted later as a non-gift.

> Now to be clear Theo, are donation via the paypal on the donations page
> are directly to you and you can do as you see fit, and/or only checks
> would be best?

Correct, as I see fit.  I try to use it for the Project for things the
Foundation doesn't fund.  I declared it that way on the web site.  I
have not used it much for my own needs.

Please don't assume that a lot arrives in that account.  It seems most
contributions are towards the OpenBSD Foundation.

> I know that was discuss a few times on this list, just try to be clear
> as it is now, and I can setup paypal and do recurring gifts to
> compensate some for the sad CD sales reduction and if so, I sure would
> encourage users to do the same so that you can continue to do what you
> love and what we all benefit from obviously!

Thanks.  I feel there have been too many attempts at rebooting this model
every few years and it isn't going to work out long term.

Re: A branded USB stick as an alternative to the CD set?

[Richard Thornton]

The reality is obvious - most users of open source are pure unadulterated free
loaders.  Nobody pays but we all use it.  
That includes very large corporations as well.  Torvalds solved it the old
fashioned way;  he is an employee of his own foundation.  McKusick sells
training videos.  All I can do is buy the CD's and give some $ to the
foundation.  Any other suggestion is not productive.


  Original Message  
From: Bryan Vyhmeister
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2015 10:36 PM
To: Bal??zs Nagy
Cc: Theo de Raadt; grazzol...@gmail.com; Tati Chevron; Stuart Henderson;
misc@openbsd.org
Subject: Re: A branded USB stick as an alternative to the CD set?

On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 06:20:02PM -0700, Bal??zs Nagy wrote:
> On Nov 30, 2015, at 2:34 PM, Theo de Raadt  wrote:
> >
> > These days the CD revenue is about what a cashier at a store makes.
>
> I'm sick to my stomack when I read this. I won't get into how unjust,
> unfair, unethical this situation is, we all know that life is unfair.
> We also all know that Theo could have a high six figure, probably even
> seven figure salary if he chose to. I don't think the issue is what
> new technology to deliver the CD sets on. I think the question is how
> to deliver Theo a recurring revenue so that he gets to draw a salary
> that is at least somewhat commensurate with his contribution to the IT
> industry. Just like a lot of us do recurring contributions to the
> OpenBSD Foundation, we need to find a way to provide Theo directly as
> well. Am I beeing too naive, am I missing somthing here?

I agree completely. This is the core issue we need to look at and find
solutions to.

Bryan

Re: whats wrong with me?

[Michel Behr]

Krzysztof, dmesg output could also be helpful for people trying to help you
out.

Interesting how this applies to so many other contexts in our lives -
especially in business and overall management related matters: "Always
provide as much information as possible. Try to pin-point the exact
problem. (...) Try to describe the problem with as much accuracy and
non-confusing terminology as possible, especially if it is not easy to
reproduce."
Many problems become harder because we can't describe them precisely,
and usually because we don't understand how things work or should work in
the first place.
Worst than that: we don't know how "problem solving" works! (and that's
critically important in a group effort like the openbsd project, right?).
The poor soul's understanding is that providing an error message is enough,
without being considerate or aware of the challenges this imposes to the
very people that are willing to help him (which sometimes go as far as to
aggressively provide clear evidences of his ignorance!) - not in this case,
let me be clear!

yes, let's try to describe our problems precisely, and provide more
Information to help our helpers...

Btw (just an idea), maybe there could be a script to save last error
messages, run uname -a save its output, + any other frequently useful info
(dmesg? a sanitized copy of traceroute output?)... I know sendbug(1) does
something along those lines, but I wonder if it would be feasible to do
something similar for "support requests"...?

One of the challenges is that it's hard to separate the demand for OpenBSD
specific knowledge and the lack of understanding over "universal computer
science concepts" like network protocols for example...? And the
correspondent triage of all this in an effective and efficient way.

Anyway, sorry for the ranting, just some thoughts... ("Well, why don't YOU
go there and code this suggested tool, and send us the diff?! Easy to just
give ideas, huh?!") :-) take it easy guys, just ideas...

On Monday, 30 November 2015, Alexander Salmin  wrote:

> On 2015-11-30 20:52, Krzysztof Strzeszewski wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>> whats wrong?:
>>
>> httpd: could not parse macro definition SSL
>> httpd[21336]: server_tls_init: failed to configure TLS - failed to read
>> private key: Operation not supported by device
>>
>>
>> Krzysztof Strzeszewski
>>
> Hey Krzysztof,
>
> Two reasons why you did not receive much feedback on this.
> - You did not supply OpenBSD version (uname -a) so we can't replicate with
> same version.
> - You did not provide httpd.conf(8) so we can't replicate your exact setup.
>
> A key to good free online OpenBSD support is to; "Always provide as much
> information as possible. Try to pin-point the exact problem. Give clear
> instructions on how to reproduce the problem. Try to describe the problem
> with as much accuracy and non-confusing terminology as possible, especially
> if it is not easy to reproduce." // http://www.openbsd.org/report.html
>
> Continue to fail this and the world will just lead to sadness and despair.
>
> Alexander

procmap prints ?VNODE?

[Stefan Berger]

hi,

with the command 'procmap pid', I often/always get ?VNODE? instead of
the actual filename.  My question is, whether this is on purpose because
on similary BSDs (pmap on NetBSD) , I don't get ?VNODE? but the actual 
filename.  Any ideas what went wrong?

$ doas procmap 1

1000  0K [ anon ]
0DE726A0272K read/exec   [ ?VNODE? ]  <-
0DE726B43000 48K read[ ?VNODE? ]  <-
0DE726C0  0K [ anon ]
0DE726C4E000  4K read/write  [ anon ]
0DE726D4E000  4K read[ ?VNODE? ]  <-
0DE726D4F000  4K read[ anon ]
0DE726E4F000  4K read/write  [ ?VNODE? ]  <-
 

(system: OpenBSD 5.8)

bergers

Re: athn0: device timeout

[Stefan Sperling]

On Sun, Nov 29, 2015 at 02:52:15PM +0100, Adam Wolk wrote:
> Now to be precise. I can use this dongle quite fine. It sometimes goes
> up to 1 hour of usage without any timeouts. When it does timeout it's
> usually in rapid succession (like 2-3 times in next 10 minutes). Each
> time after a timeout I can restart the connection with netstart
> *without* unplugging the device.

If transmission of a frame times out (e.g. because of environmental
reasons like distortion or like parts moving out of radio range), the
hardware doesn't signal "transfer complete" and a watchdog handler
is triggered to handle the situation.

Usually, this watchdog will reset the hardware (down/up the interface)
and hope that things will work afterwards.
However, this is currently not implemented for most USB drivers where
you'll find an XXX comment in the watchdog code:

if (--sc->sc_tx_timer == 0) {
printf("%s: device timeout\n", sc->sc_dev.dv_xname);
/* urtwn_init(ifp); XXX needs a process context! */
ifp->if_oerrors++;
return;
}

So... USB drivers don't recover from transmit errors :(
This needs to be fixed to solve your issue.
Most drivers for PCI devices already do the right thing here.

Note that the watchdog runs in interrupt context and filesystem access
(ie. loading firmware) is impossible in this context. One PCI driver which
has the same problem is iwm(4). Look there for an approach that should also
work for USB drivers: Using the task API (task_add(9), task_del(9), etc.)
to reset the hardware from process context.

All other people in this thread had attachment problems which are not
related to the watchdog at all.

Re: serious watchdog timeout issues with em driver

[Atanas Vladimirov]

On 20.11.2015 21:10, Sonic wrote:
On Fri, Nov 20, 2015 at 12:37 PM, Mark Kettenis 
 wrote:

Thanks Martin.


All is fine now. System booted with no errors and no watchdog timeouts.

Thanks to all.

Chris


Hi,
I'm not sure if this is related to resent em(4) changes, but after 
upgrade from:


-OpenBSD 5.8-current (GENERIC.MP) #1597: Thu Nov 12 07:33:59 MST 2015
+OpenBSD 5.8-current (GENERIC.MP) #1671: Thu Nov 26 20:36:24 MST 2015

my upload throughput can't reach more than 2mbps.
I also tried Nov 27 22:50:35 snapshot with same result.

-OpenBSD 5.8-current (GENERIC.MP) #1671: Thu Nov 26 20:36:24 MST 2015
+OpenBSD 5.8-current (GENERIC.MP) #1675: Fri Nov 27 22:50:35 MST 2015

I tried to build an older em(4) revisions, but all exept if_em.c -r 
1.312 failed to build.
Kernel with if_em.c -r 1.312, if_em.h -r 1.60 and if_em_hw.c -r 1.88 
boot normally but

same upload throughput.

Does anyone observe such a behavior? If you need more info just ask.
Thanks for your time.

P.S.: When I plug the cable from my ISP in Windows 7 laptop I have 35-40 
mbps.


full dmesg:
OpenBSD 5.8-current (GENERIC.MP) #1675: Fri Nov 27 22:50:35 MST 2015
dera...@amd64.openbsd.org:/usr/src/sys/arch/amd64/compile/GENERIC.MP
real mem = 4269342720 (4071MB)
avail mem = 4135833600 (3944MB)
mpath0 at root
scsibus0 at mpath0: 256 targets
mainbus0 at root
bios0 at mainbus0: SMBIOS rev. 2.6 @ 0x9f000 (70 entries)
bios0: vendor American Megatrends Inc. version "1.2a" date 06/27/2012
bios0: Supermicro X8SIL
acpi0 at bios0: rev 2
acpi0: sleep states S0 S1 S4 S5
acpi0: tables DSDT FACP APIC MCFG OEMB HPET GSCI SSDT EINJ BERT ERST 
HEST
acpi0: wakeup devices P0P1(S4) P0P3(S4) P0P4(S4) P0P5(S4) P0P6(S4) 
BR1E(S4) PS2K(S4) PS2M(S4) USB0(S4) USB1(S4) USB2(S4) USB3(S4) USB4(S4) 
USB5(S4) USB6(S4) GBE_(S4) [...]

acpitimer0 at acpi0: 3579545 Hz, 24 bits
acpimadt0 at acpi0 addr 0xfee0: PC-AT compat
cpu0 at mainbus0: apid 0 (boot processor)
cpu0: Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU X3430 @ 2.40GHz, 2400.32 MHz
cpu0: 
FPU,VME,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CFLUSH,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,PBE,SSE3,DTES64,MWAIT,DS-CPL,VMX,SMX,EST,TM2,SSSE3,CX16,xTPR,PDCM,SSE4.1,SSE4.2,POPCNT,NXE,LONG,LAHF,PERF,ITSC,SENSOR

cpu0: 256KB 64b/line 8-way L2 cache
cpu0: smt 0, core 0, package 0
mtrr: Pentium Pro MTRR support, 8 var ranges, 88 fixed ranges
cpu0: apic clock running at 133MHz
cpu0: mwait min=64, max=64, C-substates=0.2.1.1, IBE
cpu1 at mainbus0: apid 2 (application processor)
cpu1: Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU X3430 @ 2.40GHz, 2400.00 MHz
cpu1: 
FPU,VME,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CFLUSH,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,PBE,SSE3,DTES64,MWAIT,DS-CPL,VMX,SMX,EST,TM2,SSSE3,CX16,xTPR,PDCM,SSE4.1,SSE4.2,POPCNT,NXE,LONG,LAHF,PERF,ITSC,SENSOR

cpu1: 256KB 64b/line 8-way L2 cache
cpu1: smt 0, core 1, package 0
cpu2 at mainbus0: apid 4 (application processor)
cpu2: Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU X3430 @ 2.40GHz, 2400.00 MHz
cpu2: 
FPU,VME,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CFLUSH,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,PBE,SSE3,DTES64,MWAIT,DS-CPL,VMX,SMX,EST,TM2,SSSE3,CX16,xTPR,PDCM,SSE4.1,SSE4.2,POPCNT,NXE,LONG,LAHF,PERF,ITSC,SENSOR

cpu2: 256KB 64b/line 8-way L2 cache
cpu2: smt 0, core 2, package 0
cpu3 at mainbus0: apid 6 (application processor)
cpu3: Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU X3430 @ 2.40GHz, 2400.01 MHz
cpu3: 
FPU,VME,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CFLUSH,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,PBE,SSE3,DTES64,MWAIT,DS-CPL,VMX,SMX,EST,TM2,SSSE3,CX16,xTPR,PDCM,SSE4.1,SSE4.2,POPCNT,NXE,LONG,LAHF,PERF,ITSC,SENSOR

cpu3: 256KB 64b/line 8-way L2 cache
cpu3: smt 0, core 3, package 0
ioapic0 at mainbus0: apid 7 pa 0xfec0, version 20, 24 pins
ioapic0: misconfigured as apic 1, remapped to apid 7
acpimcfg0 at acpi0 addr 0xe000, bus 0-255
acpihpet0 at acpi0: 14318179 Hz
acpiprt0 at acpi0: bus 0 (PCI0)
acpiprt1 at acpi0: bus -1 (P0P1)
acpiprt2 at acpi0: bus 1 (P0P3)
acpiprt3 at acpi0: bus 2 (P0P5)
acpiprt4 at acpi0: bus -1 (P0P6)
acpiprt5 at acpi0: bus 6 (BR1E)
acpiprt6 at acpi0: bus 3 (BR20)
acpiprt7 at acpi0: bus 4 (BR24)
acpiprt8 at acpi0: bus 5 (BR25)
acpicpu0 at acpi0: !C3(350@17 mwait.1@0x20), !C2(500@17 mwait.1@0x10), 
C1(1000@1 mwait.1), PSS
acpicpu1 at acpi0: !C3(350@17 mwait.1@0x20), !C2(500@17 mwait.1@0x10), 
C1(1000@1 mwait.1), PSS
acpicpu2 at acpi0: !C3(350@17 mwait.1@0x20), !C2(500@17 mwait.1@0x10), 
C1(1000@1 mwait.1), PSS
acpicpu3 at acpi0: !C3(350@17 mwait.1@0x20), !C2(500@17 mwait.1@0x10), 
C1(1000@1 mwait.1), PSS

acpibtn0 at acpi0: SLPB
acpibtn1 at acpi0: PWRB
ipmi at mainbus0 not configured
cpu0: Enhanced SpeedStep 2400 MHz: speeds: 2401, 2400, 2267, 2133, 2000, 
1867, 1733, 1600, 1467, 1333, 1200 MHz

pci0 at mainbus0 bus 0
pchb0 at pci0 dev 0 function 0 "Intel Core DMI" rev 0x11
ppb0 at pci0 dev 3 function 0 "Intel Core PCIE" rev 0x11: msi
pci1 at ppb0 bus 1
ppb1 at pci0 dev 5 function 0 "Intel Core PCIE" rev 0x11: msi

Re: Is OpenBSD dump/restore compatible with Linux?

[Raimo Niskanen]

On Sat, Nov 28, 2015 at 06:09:45PM -0500, Alan Corey wrote:
> More of my running out of BIOS-accessible space saga.
> 
> My Linux partitions with a few gigs of Android development stuff are
> intact on my laptop, I just need to rearrange the boot partition (I
> think).  I've got empty partitions set aside for installing Linux on
> my desktop machine.  Can I do a dump from OpenBSD over my lan to a
> Linux restore (I've now got an Arch Linux live cd)?  Or should I do
> the restore to OpenBSD on the desktop writing to the Linux partitions?
>  I don't know about permissions and ownerships of files, specifically.

The BSD utilities dump/restore are very file system specific so I would not
use a dump file from e.g OpenBSD to restore to e.g FreeBSD.  I was almost
sure that dump/restore did not exist on Linux...

If you want to keep all properties of filesystem objects dump/restore is
the way to go, but you should only use dump and restore on the same
filesystem type.  Of course you can store the dump file anywhere inbetween.

The tools tar/cpio/pax all have rather standard archive formats that are
fairly portable between Unix filesystems.  There are ugly details though
e.g how long filenames are handled for some tar vs. gtar archive formats,
and also in how some tools handle extended attributes.

/ Raimo Niskanen


> 
> I set that up differently.  I used 2 cylinders to make a grub-only
> partition at the start of the Linux space.  I'm hoping to load grub as
> an option from the XP bootloader then having it boot Debian and
> probably Arch.  If I get it working I'll set my laptop up the same way
> and clone it back.  I could use rsync or make tarballs but I think
> dump/restore is probably best.
> 
> Oh, the grub in ports/sysutils seems to be the original, not grub2
> which development has also stopped on.  The original got to be too
> patched together, so grub2 is a complete rewrite.  stage1 and stage2
> is old stuff.  A Grub partition needs to be at least 12 megs.
> 
> -- 
> Credit is the root of all evil.  - AB1JX

-- 

/ Raimo Niskanen, Erlang/OTP, Ericsson AB

Re: athn0: device timeout

[Gonzalo L. Rodriguez]

I have the same problem with a new macbookpro12,1 my urtwn adapter work 
just fine in a regular ehci(4) machine, but on xhci(4)'s macbookpro I 
need to reconnect like 10 times, and even that way, doesn't work. :/

On 28/11, Stefan Sperling wrote:
; On Sat, Nov 28, 2015 at 07:35:00AM -0700, bluesun08 wrote:
; > xhci0 at pci0 dev 20 function 0 "Intel Bay Trail xHCI" rev 0x0c: msi
; > usb0 at xhci0: USB revision 3.0
; > uhub0 at usb0 "Intel xHCI root hub" rev 3.00/1.00 addr 1
; > uhub2 at uhub0 port 2 "Genesys Logic USB2.0 Hub" rev 2.00/85.37 addr 3
; > athn1 at uhub2 port 2 configuration 1 interface 0 "ATHEROS USB2.0 WLAN" rev
; > 2.00/1.08 addr 6
; > athn1: could not load firmware
; 
; I believe your problems are rooted in xhci(4) not athn(4).
; There are several known problems with xhci, some of which
; don't have a known fix yet.
; 
; To confirm this theory, could you try this athn adapter in a
; machine with USB ports driven by ehci(4) instead of xhci(4)?
; 

-- 
Sending from my toaster.