Re: [neonixie-l] eBay Paranoia

[threeneurons]

eBay has been doing this now, for about a year and a half. I've had no 
problems, so far. Initially, I didn't understand why they did this, only a 
few years after selling off Paypal. So It seemed kinda stupid. But I think 
it has to do with some legal changes both in the US and in Europe. In the 
US, all online transactions need to include the sales tax of the buyer's 
state. In Europe, they want the VAT collected at time of purchase. When 
eBay took over handling the payments, they take care of both of those. 
Sales tax and VAT get routed directly from the buyer to eBay, and (I 
assume) to the respective government agency. I only get the item's price, 
shipping (that I established), less eBay's fees (~10%). They deposit that 
amount to my bank account, either daily, or weekly, dependent on the 
sellers preference.

I Long ago set up a different bank account, at a whole different bank, just 
for online stuff. That way if either eBay or Paypal get hacked, only this 
"online use" account is exposed. Your SSN is needed, if and when they issue 
1099s.

Of course, all banks now, have an on line presents, so with my luck, my 
main bank gets breached, while the small sum, at the "online use" bank 
stays unaffected.

On Thursday, March 31, 2022 at 1:45:37 PM UTC-7 Pramanicin wrote:

> Etsy sellers have nixies etc on themI quite liked that platform in the 
> beginning, but slowly their commissions grew higher and I gave up using it 
> as a seller.
>
> On Thu, Mar 31, 2022 at 1:30 PM 'Grahame' via neonixie-l <
> neoni...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi
>>
>> So far I've not had a problem with eBay or Paypal but then I think I have 
>> been following their rules when both buying and selling.
>>
>> I tried to open an account to buy through Alibaba house of horrors and 
>> they asked for a photograph of my passport, proof of my home address and a 
>> photo of the credit card I was going to use. I just deleted the email and 
>> all those that followed asking me to pay for the goods in my basket. 
>> Eventually they stopped and I've not tried again.
>>
>> Grahame
>> On 31/03/2022 21:01, Jim KO5V wrote:
>>
>> Good Afternoon,
>>
>> For the last couple of years, I have avoided giving eBay my bank info and 
>> SS #.  I always use PayPal on line, mainly because in my simple mind, 
>> keeping my information in one place, rather than spreading it out all over 
>> the web lowers the odds of having that info stolen. Several years ago,  a 
>> couple of my CC #s were stolen when on-line merchants were hacked, so I am 
>> probably a bit over-sensitive.
>>
>> I guess eBay wants to dump PayPal and "float" the money themselves, so 
>> now I'm no longer allowed to sell unless I give them my bank info and SS# 
>> info. I am not comfortable doing this. I still can buy on eBay with a 
>> credit card (or PP until they get rid of it). My credit cards are protected 
>> by their issuing banks, so if they are compromised. I'm OK.  
>>
>> I'm just curious how other people on this list feel about this 
>> situations. Is there a viable alternative to eBay?
>>
>> BTW, eBay is holding about $7.00 from a sale I made a couple of months 
>> ago, and they won't release it until they have my bank info. I think I'll 
>> let it ride, and see how they handle it.
>>
>> Thanks. Jim
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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Dekatron Analog Meter with Analog Parts

[threeneurons]

Having it mimick the dohickie, would require a toggle flip flop, to switch 
directions on alternate counts. It could be either a descrete 2 transistor 
stage, with associate resistors and caps, or a chip such as a 4013. Making 
respond to stereo would also mean ping-pong-ing between two audio channels. 
definitely turning into a "Rube Goldberg" contraption. If I ever decide to 
go that route, using a uC would be the simple way out. Just add another 
audio input stage to the current doHickie. It already has analog switching 
internal to a Tiny24 uC. The "fun" way, would be to use only tubes. 
Descrete circuit, only using tubes.

Maybe in the future ...

On Tuesday, August 10, 2021 at 1:55:15 AM UTC-7 Dekatron42 wrote:

> Lovely!
>
> Would it be possible to add the same circuit twice but change the spin 
> direction to get a simulat display to the original one where it swings both 
> eays, I think some kind of multiplexong is needed then so that only one 
> driving stage at the time drives the guides?
>
> This might also make it possible to display both right and left audio 
> signal on the same dekatron.
>
> /Martin
>
> On Monday, 9 August 2021 at 23:36:26 UTC+2 Terry Bowman wrote:
>
>>
>> On Aug 9, 2021, at 3:44 PM, threeneurons  wrote:
>>
>> Idler circuit added. 
>>
>>
>> Great stuff, Mike. Keep it up.
>>
>>
>> Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
>> "The Mac Doctor"
>>
>> https://www.astarcloseup.com
>>
>> “...the book said something astonishing, a very big thought. The stars, 
>> it said, were suns but very far away. The Sun was a star but close 
>> up.”—Carl Sagan, "The Backbone Of Night", *Cosmos*, 1980
>>
>>
>>

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[neonixie-l] Re: Z502S Decatron

[threeneurons]

The Z502S is the same as the Sylvania 6476 & Ericsson GC10C. There are all 
kinds of circuits that can use it. Here's my dekatron page:
https://threeneurons.wordpress.com/dekatron-stuff/

I just finished a analog meter circuit for dekatrons, that does not require 
a microcontroller. Its crude, but very simple, relatively speaking:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9y0P83Tv7Y
On Sunday, August 1, 2021 at 11:00:43 PM UTC-7 Richard Scales wrote:

> I have a number of Mullard Z502S Decatrons in N.O.S. condition and would 
> love to put them to good use though I am struggling to find details of any 
> projects that use this kind of decatron apart from the simple spinner 
> circuit on the tube-tester.com site.
> Can anyone point me towards any projects that use this decatron type?
>  - Richard
>
>
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: ZM1032 - Dual Anode

[threeneurons]

I used ZM1032 nixies on my 1st nixie clock, and it was multiplexed. 
Bi-quinary tubes actually complicate multiplexing. If you have a 4 digit 
clock, and use standard nixies, with 4 x 1 muxing, you'll have 4 anode 
drivers, and 10 cathode drivers. With bi-quinary, there will be 8 anode 
drivers, and 5 cathode drivers. You only save one driver, but your code 
will have the extra step of picking the correct anode (odd or even), in 
addition to which digits turn, it is, to turn ON.

The only place bi-quinaries have an advantage, is on a direct drive 
(non-multiplexed) circuit, using descrete components. Once decoder chips 
like the 7441 (and later 74141) came around, all you save are fewer pins to 
hook up. 8 versus 13. 8 being 5 cathodes, 2 anodes, and the 1 important 
shield connection, otherwise the in-active digit on a cathode pair, will 
also glow a bit.

On Thursday, September 24, 2020 at 12:19:27 PM UTC-7 martin martin wrote:

> Follow up-
> It's  just a cheapy two-digit thermometer I found on the Bay.  I suppose 
> if I want to use those tubes I'll have to make a little adapter board.
> Here's the info that caused all the fuss
>
>
>
> ~
> *mcve...@gmail.com*
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 23, 2020 at 11:12 PM Richard Scales  
> wrote:
>
>> That's a neat trick, I can see that I didn't think that through!
>>
>> I have a single biquinary tube - I should have a go!
>>
>> - RIchard
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, 23 September 2020 at 10:56:51 UTC+1 Dekatron42 wrote:
>>
>>> Sorry, spelled Ronald Dekkers name wrong.
>>>
>>> /Martin
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, 23 September 2020 11:20:01 UTC+2, Dekatron42 wrote:

 Rondal Dekker has a clock at his webpage who is using them: 
 https://www.dos4ever.com/nixie1/nixie1.html

 /Martin

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>> .
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[neonixie-l] Simple A108 Spinner

[threeneurons]

About 7 years ago, A108 mini dekatrons started to show up in the West. 
They're odd little tubes, with no differentiated guide and output pins. 
They're uni-directional, due to their rod shapes, and all cathodes work 
both as drive inputs, and outputs. We made a bunch of test circuits for 
them, that could be found here:

https://threeneurons.wordpress.com/dekatron-stuff/auxiliary-dekatron-stuff/

I didn't follow them up with a kit, since they were pricey. North of $50, 
back then. They've come down some, but still sell in the $20 range. About a 
year ago, I wonder if I could make a really cheap HV supply. I mean really 
cheap, like under $2 for parts, in ones-n-two-zee quantities. I came up 
with a MC34063 design, that does NOT use a power FET. That's $1, right 
there. I came up with one that uses a MPSA42, but it can only deliver ~4mA 
max, which is pretty useless, for anything other than a simple test jig. 
The A108, however, only needs a tad over 200V to strike, and draws only 
~500uA. No multiplier stages needed, as with other dekatrons, including the 
A107. So I bought an A108 a couple of months ago, and finally got around 
building a permanent spinner:



Here's the schematic:



and here's a short video of it running:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uo1fjkRRpU


The thing is built on a 2.5" x 2" (62x50mm) piece of acrylic. Worked out  
quite nice. The power supply had been tested on another low current circuit 
for close to a year, 24/7, so the "cheap" supply has some utility.


Enjoy.



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[neonixie-l] Re: VFD filament resistance when hot/cold?

[threeneurons]

VFDs, since you don't want the filament to visibly glow, vary less than 
other tubes. 2.5:1 that you're getting is rather mild. On typical "radio" 
tubes, I get 6:1 routinely. And that's on small signal tubes, such as 
12AX7s. There, a filament that's ~85 ohms hot, will measure ~15 ohms, cold, 
on an ohmmeter.

On my 1 Nimo clock, that I made 2 1/2 years ago, the filament supply is 
pretty simple. The nominal filament is suppose to draw 200mA at 1.1V, for 
5.5 ohms, hot. I use an unregulated "12V" supply, which is really ~11V. 
That goes to the filament by way of 2 22 ohm 2W resistors. The Nimo 
filament is in series with those in the middle to get the ~6V bias, too. 
But 2 1N4007 rectifiers are shunted across the filament. See the drawing. 
Note an extra 1.5 ohms is in series, then that group is shunted in parallel 
with the two rectifiers, and that whole bunch is in series with the 2 22 
ohm power resistors. Its simple and reliable. Even if the cold, the current 
will only be ~50mA over rated, for the brief time it takes to warm up. 
Surge currents are usually several times the running current, during warm 
up. 



This clock has only been unplugged for a couple of months, last year, while 
I was in the process of moving.

https://threeneurons.wordpress.com/miscellaneous-projects/

On Wednesday, July 15, 2020 at 6:20:16 AM UTC-7, Jasper C. wrote:
>
> I'm working on a project using some IV-17 tubes, and I cam across 
> something I need advice on.  The datasheets I've found say that the 
> filament current is 47 mA at 2.4 Vac, so an effective resistance of about 
> 51 Ohms.  But on 3 tubes I've measured, they're all about 20 Ohms.  Does 
> the filament resistance change when hot?  Because that seems like a huge 
> difference...
>

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[neonixie-l] Re: Prebuilt PSU boards - recommendations?

[threeneurons]

Speaking of power supplies, I've been running a few experiments using HVAC 
24VAC transformers. I choice this type of device, since almost all Radio 
Shack stores have closed, since 2015. I still have one near me, in 
Tehachapi, CA (a franchise). Also, in recent months, the Fry's chain is 
clearly in trouble. They have empty shelves, and will most likely close 
just after the new year. But HVAC supply stores are relatively common, and 
they all carry 24VAC transformers, that are used to relay thermostat data 
(simple switch closer) back to the heating & AC system. They currently sell 
in the $12 ballpark.

To get 170V+, from these transformers, doesn't even involve a switching 
suppy. I got some numbers off a simple multiplier circuit:



With the capacitors used, and a 40VA transformer, this thing can deliver 
upto 70mA, before the output drops below 170V. Note, that's the average 
voltage, shown on a meter. Any peak in the ripple, exceeding 170V, will 
strike a nixie tube.


As a baseline, I hooked up one of my switching supplies. It was modified so 
that the coil got the full DC rectified & filtered voltage (~36V), but the 
control circuit was limited to 12V, as not to destroy the power FET. Also 
the coil value and timin cap value were altered. Though the coil, was still 
a small drum coil, of the same series.



I surprisingly got 100mA output, with the supply only getting comfortably 
warm. Using fullwave rectification, smaller 20VA & 30VA transformers can be 
used. Note: I got 20W (120mA) out with the 20VA transformer. NO IT WAS NOT 
100% EFFICIENT ! The 20VA transformer was just putting out more power than 
its rating. So, this kind of load, should only be presented intermittently, 
else that transformer will eventually fail.


Of course to make this usable, +5V, or some other low voltage needs to be 
drawn from the same transformer. If less than 50mA is needed, a 680 ohm 2W 
resistor, and 4.7V (1W) zener, should do the trick. For higher currents, a 
switching buck converter can be used. The MC34063 can handle up to 40V, and 
should safely deliver a few hundred mAs.



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[neonixie-l] Re: Foriegn Address Formats & Meanings

[threeneurons]

I got lucky. The buyer understands English quite well. He responded 
promptly. The reason why his address seemed so strange, is that its a 
little village, that has no street names. So each house has its own house 
number, but no street name, since there ain't any.

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[neonixie-l] Foriegn Address Formats & Meanings

[threeneurons]

Is there a comprehensive web site explaining the formats and abbreviations 
used in addresses across the world ?

I have a parcel, pending shipment, to Romania, but the street portion of 
the address seems incomplete. It may be a PO box, but I have found nothing 
confirming that by way of a Google search. I've left a question with the 
buyer, but I don't know if his English is good enough to understand my 
question. My Romanian is non-existent. A good website explaining it, with 
common abbreviations and short-hand codes would be helpful.


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[neonixie-l] Re: Clocks! Picture sharing....

[threeneurons]

Here are mine:

https://threeneurons.wordpress.com/nixie-power-supply/my-nixie-clocks/

All built between 2003 & 2017.

On Friday, June 7, 2019 at 11:26:51 AM UTC-7, Pramanicin wrote:
>
> We’re all into nixie clocks right? Stupid question 
>
> How about all the lurkers out there share some pictures of one of their 
> favorites? 
>
> Here’s one of mine...(among many) 
>
> Maybe we could start a folder on the group to keep pictures in and serve 
> as inspiration for others? I know there’s some very talented craftsman on 
> the list who have shared before... 
>
>

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[neonixie-l] Re: Single inductor supplies and heat issues

[threeneurons]

Yes, I like using the old MC34063. Its a relatively simple chip. But don't 
get stuck on the semiconductors. The coil is the main player. And real 
inductors behave a lot differently than ideal inductors. More so than 
capacitors and resistors, when comparing the ideal model with the real 
parts. For power applications, the inductance changes (to a lower value) as 
current increases. This happens well before the part goes into saturation, 
so any calculations made, are just a first stab. In reality, you may have 
to go 2 to 4 times higher, than calculated.

In practical matters I like using coils with E3 values (E3 meaning 
significant figures of 10, 22 & 47). With the MC34063, I can change base 
frequency with the timing cap. Smaller caps can be found, cheaply, in a 
wider range of values (E6 - 10, 15, 22, 33, 47, & 68). E12 or higher only 
with resistors (E12 - 10,12,15,18,22,27,33,39,47,56,68,82).

You can get more power out of an SDR1806, but before going there you aren't 
get all the power out of the RLB9012. If you can't easily change frequency, 
then increase the inductor size. Buy some 220uH coils, though you should be 
able to get more power out of the 100uH part. I routinely get more than 
30mA out, at nixie voltages.

On Wednesday, November 14, 2018 at 12:24:36 AM UTC-8, Oyvind wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> first: interesting & very useful webpage ! (recognized your nickname). 
> Appreciate people who share information like that.
>
> Increasing frequency will only result in maxing out duty cycles. Not sure 
> if I tested the RLB on >= 60kHz yet though, I'll 
> give it a go later.
>
> What frequency are you at, approximately ?
>
> Assuming you're using the MC34063, I'm not sure how the PWM scheme looks 
> on that one. Have you tried peeling off 
> the outer shrink tube on the inductor ?  At first I didn't think there was 
> any significant heat, until I realized the shrink tube 
> was messing with me.
>
> Anyways, I found some nice off-the shelf transformers which looks very 
> promising in simulation, so I'm heading for 
> flyback. Slightly more expensive though, but not a concern for me.
>
>
> - Oyvind
>
>
>>>

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[neonixie-l] Re: IN-4 eagle template

[threeneurons]

The IN-4 & IN-18 can be used in the same socket. Physical pin spacing is 
the same (14-pins, on a 18mm diameter pin circle, 24.5 degrees apart). 
Pin-out assignments is different, between the two.

Pin #  IN-4  IN-18
  
. 1 . . . K4 . . N/C
. 2 . . . K6 . . K4
. 3 . . . K8 . . K5
. 4 . . .SCR* Anode
. 5 . . . K9 . . K6
. 6 . . . K7 . . K7
. 7 . . . N/C . K3
. 8 . . . K0 . . N/C
. 9 . . . K2 . . K8
.10. . . A2* . K2
.11. . . K3 . . K1
.12. . . K5 . . Anode
.13. . . A1*. . K0
.14. . . K1 . . N/C

*the IN-4 has two different configurations. One has two anodes (A1 & A2), 
and separating screen, allowing it to be operated as a bi-quinary nixie, in 
addition to a "traditional" nixie. The other configuration omits the screen 
and an anode. It only has one (A1), and can only be operated in the 
traditional mode.

I just plugged an IN-4 tube into a IN-18 socket, and it fits without issue. 
So this is NOT a guess, but CONFIRMED.

Though, I would suggest against the IN-4 for a nixie clock, as it does not 
contain mercury, and therefore has a short life. I found that out the hard 
way. My first nixie clock used two IN-4s paired with two ZM1032 (biquinary) 
nixies:

First photo 


The 8051 uC drove all 4 as a multiplexed biquinary group. 2x4=8 anode 
drives, and 5-cathode pairs. 8x5. More complicated than it needed to be if 
I just used regular nixies. Biquinary only has an advantage when run by 
descrete circuitry. ICs made them obsolete.

Well the short life of the IN-4, caused the zero to disappear in less than 
a year. Mercury is a good thing in nixies (IN-8-2, IN-12, IN-14, IN-16, 
IN-17, & IN-18).


On Wednesday, October 24, 2018 at 9:39:49 AM UTC-7, Mateusz Dziuba wrote:
>
> Hi! My name is Mateusz and I am trying to build nixie clock on 6 IN-4 
> lamps.
> I based my design on 
> https://www.instructables.com/id/simple-user-adjustable-DIY-Nixie-Clock/
>
> I want to redesign front shield, but cannot find proper eagle template for 
> IN-4 on internet. 
> I download adafruit libraries with russian_tubes.lbr, but it seems they 
> just link IN-18 template to it. I managed to change pins order as it is for 
> IN-4, but I am still thinking, the pins positions are not correct.
>
> Do You have NIXIE IN-4 eagle template? How You manage to design clocks 
> with IN-4?
>
>
>

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[neonixie-l] Re: IN-9 problem

[threeneurons]

Full "deflection" happens with 12mA, and the tube gets a little non-linear 
past 8mA. Monitor the current thru the tube, and the voltage across the 
tube, at the same time. Make sure your supply is up to the task before 
finding fault in the tube.






On Monday, November 12, 2018 at 8:49:50 AM UTC-8, Mateusz Dziuba wrote:
>
> Hi! I started working on another project involving IN-9 nixies, so I 
> bought 10 of them on ebay and I am in the middle of the testing. 
> Unfortunately the tests didn't go as far as I would like to.
>
> I built a current mirror on 2xMPSA42 and 1k potentiometer as reference. As 
> most of the lamps light up only to the half of cathode I left them burning 
> on max current for hour or two and achieve 8-8.5 mm glow only. Now I am 
> stuck. When I measure the current flowing through Nixie, I get 10.1-10.4 mA 
> max on each lamp and cannot get further.
>
> Is this a problem with gas in my IN-9 or maybe is this a configuration 
> problem?
>


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[neonixie-l] Re: Single inductor supplies and heat issues

[threeneurons]

I think your doing something wrong. I use the RLB9012-101KL routinely, and 
get twice the output current (~35mA @ 180V), while the coil gets warm, but 
still within reason. I'd suggest that you increase your switching 
frequency. I suspect you're well into saturation.

On Tuesday, November 6, 2018 at 12:12:29 AM UTC-8, Oyvind wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I have been experimenting a bit with single inductor supplies. I built one 
> myself based on TPS40210, and tried a couple of others too.
>
> Common for all, is that the inductor gets quite hot when running them on a 
> 10K dummy load @180V. 
>
> So, for 6 IN-14 tubes on 1.5 mA each, they work just fine, but not much 
> more than that.
>
> I tried various inductors, with fairly high amp ratings:
>
>
> - shielded SMD ones have most pronounced. That is, I can hold my finger on 
> it, but just barely.
> - radial THT, souch as Bourns RLB9012-101KL. When peeling off the outer 
> coating, the heat is obvious
> - toroids with low ohms / high amps. These gives best result, but gets 
> "luke warm".
>
> I'm thinking that having a supply like that inside a casing would not be 
> good in the long run. I am aiming for non-multiplexed..
>
> Not sure how to remedy this (snubber or similar ?), perhaps this topology 
> isn't the most ideal. 
>
>
> What's your experiences here ?
>
>

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[neonixie-l] Re: Panaplex gas pump still pumping

[threeneurons]

Last time I drove through Page, AZ, a panaplex display was the new 
technology !

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[neonixie-l] Re: Adding audio clips to a clock...

[threeneurons]

I didn't think these chips were still made ! I used one back in the early 
90's, so details are a bit fuzzy. Digikey carries them, and they they don't 
cost much. Even in ones-n-two-zees:

ISD Chips 


When I used them, it was for both recording an playback, without needing a 
uC. There use to be cheap SS dictating machines built around them, back 
then. They've expanded their product line. Maybe I can revisit my old 
"talking clock"

I designed one, even further back around a TI speech chip. That chip was 
not in any TI databook, but since I always took this one distributor 
salesman to the local strip joint (I worked in Hollywood at the time), he 
made me aware of the chip. I managed to get all data from a local TI sales 
office in rough form. Definitely no slick datasheet nor app notes. But they 
had a lot of chips. Most likely a custom, that a big client defaulted on. 
Worked out well. Distributor stocked the chips, and my company bought them 
as needed.  

On Friday, September 28, 2018 at 2:44:10 PM UTC-7, Paul Andrews wrote:
>
>
> I've been thinking about adding limited audio to my designs. Things like 
> audio effects, chimes, alarms etc. Ideally I would like something that I 
> can control using I2C, because my basic design uses I2C for various 
> expansion modules, though I could use a GPIO/I2C expansion module as an 
> intermediary.
>
> I came across these devices: 
> http://www.nuvoton.com/hq/products/isd-voice-ics/isd-chipcorder-family , 
> the ISD2130 in particluar looks like it might fit the bill. The great thing 
> about them is that they are apparently a one-chip solution. Does anyone 
> have any experience of using them, or suggestions for alternatives - 
> doesn't need to be one-chip.
>

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[neonixie-l] Re: For you display nuts out there.....

[threeneurons]

I guess you can use them to recreate the clock Jim Forbes made some time 
ago:

http://www.selectric.org/tubeclock/


On Tuesday, September 11, 2018 at 1:39:59 PM UTC-7, Pramanicin wrote:
>
> Not my auction etc etc...thought it may interest one or two of you out 
> there..
>
>
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Hewlett-Packard-AC-4G-Vacuum-Tube-Electronic-Decade-pre-nixie-Counters-/173529471837?&_trksid=p2056016.l4276
>
> Cheers,
>
> (Pharma) Nick
>

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[neonixie-l] Re: My B-6091 Nixie clock

[threeneurons]

Nice job. A few years ago I made my own 6 digit nixie clock with B6091s
>
> 

Good tubes, when you can find em !

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[neonixie-l] Re: GI-10 Inditrons

[threeneurons]

Tie all the cathodes to B+, thru 10 individual resistors. 10x 100K, is a 
good start. To select a cathode, ground that particular lead. The other 
cathodes will provide the anode current. 100K / 9 = ~11K. For testing 
that's fine. Maybe a little too hot for continuous operation. I think 1mA 
is a good run value.

Dieter has the datasheet:
http://www.tube-tester.com/sites/nixie/dat_arch/GI-10.pdf

It shows 330K resistors used, but that's with a test supply that can exceed 
300V. Also note the diodes in that circuit are backwards.

Strike voltage looks to be 180V worse case. Sustain voltage: 135V 
nominally. Operating current between 0.6 to 1.4mA.

On Saturday, August 25, 2018 at 10:53:36 AM UTC-7, Pramanicin wrote:
>
> I have 2 GI-10 'inditron' type nixie tubes...they have gas but due to the 
> different way these nixies work (no anode mesh) I am currently unable to 
> test themthey look unused. If you're interested then please PM me and 
> we can haggle...;-) Not looking for current prices at all...
>
> Cheers,
>
> (Pharma) Nick
>

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[neonixie-l] Re: Dekatron DoHickie #1 glow gets "stuck"

[threeneurons]

Contact me thru email at threeneur...@yahoo.com

That is the "original" dohickie ! Hand breadboarded and everything. One off.

The version 1 (round boards) and current version 2A (square red board) 
kits, came later. 

On Wednesday, August 22, 2018 at 10:10:41 PM UTC-7, Terry Kennedy wrote:
>
>
>
> On Sunday, August 19, 2018 at 12:46:21 AM UTC-4, threeneurons wrote:
>>
>> On Friday, August 17, 2018 at 12:37:16 AM UTC-7, Terry Kennedy wrote:
>>>
>>> I have Dekatron DoHickie #1 (January 2007) from Michael Moorrees 
>>> (Tortugascuba on eBay, I believe) which uses a Rodan DK23 tube
>>>
>>
>> 1st on my list of possibilities, is  a bad connection. That old of a 
>> dekatron dohickie, is not the kit (currently being sold), but original 
>> version, sold as a complete unit:
>>
>> [image: DK23_DH05.jpg]
>>
>
> Mine doesn't look anything like that. I carefully cleaned the tube pins 
> and socket without any change:
>
> [image: IMG_9841-s.jpg]
>
>
>
> [image: IMG_9836-s.jpg]
>
>
>  
>
>  
>
>

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[neonixie-l] Re: Dekatron DoHickie #1 glow gets "stuck"

[threeneurons]

Steel wool is fine, just for the tube, after its removed from the socket. 
Make sure to use it away from the circuit, in another room. Wipe the pins 
and base clean with an alcohol moistened rag afterwards. 

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[neonixie-l] Re: RoHS Certification of Nixie Tubes

[threeneurons]

You can probably order RoHS certified stickers from a Chinese vendor.

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[neonixie-l] Re: Interesting indicator on Ebay

[threeneurons]

On Thursday, August 9, 2018 at 10:28:54 AM UTC-7, Dekatron42 wrote:
>
> It's more like a linear Polyatron (although not far from a linear 
> dekatron),... straighten them out like a Burroughs Bargraph display like 
> the BG12205.
>
> 
> /Martin
>

 Damn weirdest things coming out of Russia !  Wonder what other surprises 
are still hidden behind the former iron curtain.

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[neonixie-l] Re: Anita Mk9 restoration

[threeneurons]

On Wednesday, June 20, 2018 at 1:32:06 AM UTC-7, Roland wrote:
>
>
> Would you think the GS10C can run on a high current like 1.2mA too? 
>

For short durations, an hour or less, every once in a while, I think 1.2mA 
will do little harm. I've run orange neon dekatrons, designed for 350uA, at 
1mA, in the past, and they run fine. Though, I haven't run speed tests, to 
see if that's affected. Obviously, if you do this 24/7, the cathodes will 
prematurely erode. The excess sputtering may even cause shorts. Maybe an 
extended test, for me (or anyone interested), to run on an OG-4 !?

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[neonixie-l] Re: Divergent Nixie clock designs

[threeneurons]

On Tuesday, June 5, 2018 at 6:14:58 AM UTC-7, GastonP wrote:
>
> Nice design, Mike
>What was the function of the microphone in the lower part of the 
> shcematic? It goes to the connector and to a pin called X+ but I couldn't 
> find what's after that.
> Gastón
>

There's a ring of LEDs around  digits, where the lights do a 4-chl chase 
pattern. The signals that control that are XB0 thru XB3. Those signals are 
connected to the LED cathodes. All the anodes (for those LEDs and NOT the 
digit LEDs) are connected to X+.

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[neonixie-l] Re: Divergent Nixie clock designs

[threeneurons]

On Monday, June 4, 2018 at 10:38:35 PM UTC-7, gregebert wrote:
>
> Long live PALASM !   I used CUPL a few times in the late 1980's.
>
> Were you able to program your device at home ? Most of the tools back then 
> were not free, and out-of-reach for hobbyists.
> I remember sneaking into the lab during lunch hour to program EPROMs.
>

During the 80's, I had the keys to work, so I had free run of the 
equipment, after hours. I used that equipment on my senior project, and 
wrote my college papers on the company's CP/M computer in Wordstar. I think 
I got good grades on my reports, not for the content, but because the 
margins lined up on both the left and right side. The company had Tektronix 
development systems for working on microprocessors. An 8002 and a 8550. 
School had a lab full of HP 64000s, which were always occupied. Both the HP 
and Tektronix units cost well in the 10's of 1000s of dollars. By the 
mid-80s, however, emulator pods, that plugged into an IBM PC, started to 
become popular. Those sold in the $2K to $5K range. By ~1990, the IC makers 
started selling evaluation boards, for only a few 100 bucks. I picked up a 
Motorola HC05 EVM board for under $500, and it worked well as a development 
platform. Of course, now I use AVR tools, that cost less than $35.

I own a programmer than can do MACH devices, and it cost me in the ballpark 
of $200, back in the early 90s. I haven't used it in years. Haven't erased 
an EPROM, or quartz windowed uC (usually an HC05-C8) in over 20 years. 
Don't drop a ceramic quartz windowed 22V10. They break in two, when they 
hit the floor.
 

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[neonixie-l] Re: Divergent Nixie clock designs

[threeneurons]

I've made a clock using a CPLD, the little brother of the FPGA:

https://threeneurons.files.wordpress.com/2018/06/mach210_clk.pdf

AMD MACH210. It was made quite a while ago. I guess MACH210 chips are 
vintage now.

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[neonixie-l] Re: Anita Mk9 restoration

[threeneurons]

Great find !

Working high speed Ericsson dekatrons are next to impossible to find. The 
GS10D has the same pinout as the slower GS10C, and 6476/6476A. Also the 
GS10C is designed to operate at lower currents, but it may work, if you can 
reduce the clock rate. For short term operation, running the GS10C over its 
design limits does no permanent damage. Something to consider, until a 
working GS10D shows up.

An excessive portion of high speed dekatrons are found to be duds. Usually 
no gas, to ionize. This rarely happens with standard speed (neon gas / 
orange) dekatrons. The gas in the high speed tubes, I believe is either 
hydrogen or helium. Blue/violet glow is not unique to argon, as some 
assume. If the gas is helium, it can diffuse right thru glass. If its 
hydrogen, it can bond with the tube's metal structures. In either case, 
over time, tubes with these gases will go bad, just by sitting on the 
shelf. And these tubes have not been made in decades. 

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[neonixie-l] Re: Ever seen this?

[threeneurons]

1DP1 1 inch CRT. Its a ONE, not an "I" (eye) as the first character.

Standard CRT numbering system, where the first numeral, is the rough 
diameter, in inches, the 3rd character, is always a "P", and the number 
after the "P", is the phosphor type. P1 is green. P4 would be white.

I have a 1CP1, and a 1EP1 in my tube stash.

More data, on the tube in the eBay listing:

https://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_1dp1.html

http://tubedata.milbert.com/sheets/084/1/1DP1.pdf

On Thursday, May 10, 2018 at 12:11:28 PM UTC-7, SWISSNIXIE - Jonathan F. 
wrote:
>
>
> Found this by accident
>
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Old-vintage-NOS-NU-IDPI-144-Made-in-USA-radio-antique-apparatus-vacuum-tube/263659229862
>

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[neonixie-l] Re: 4 digit nimo clock so far

[threeneurons]

That Nimo document, I actually spliced together into a PDF, from separate 
JPG pages on David Forbe's page:
http://www.cathodecorner.com/nixiedata/
I updated IEE contact information, and put David's & my "thumbprints", on 
it, so you can see how it bounced thru the internet.

The only Nimo's I've ever seen are the ones Westdave & I have. These A.J. 
Franzman stumbled upon, at C Surplus (Pasadena, CA) many years ago. He 
bought the lot, which wasn't that many. Westdave acquired some from him, 
and gave me two. We'd been sitting on them, til the Fan Blanche youtube 
video popped up, last October:
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=iee+nimo

They aren't the prettiest tubes, and you have to wonder what was IEE 
thinking ! They seem structurally complex. Much more complex, than a nixie. 
Interface, on the other hand is pretty simple. The HV (1800V +) on the 
anode is applied, and not manipulated. It only draws ~30uA. The 
filament/cathode passes 200mA, at 1.1V AC or DC. Digit manipulation, is all 
done thru the 10 grids. -4V (relative to the cathode), for full cutoff. 
This is where all the grids are "parked". Only the active digit's grid is 
brought positive, thru a fairly large resistor (330K minimum). Like all 
vacuum tube grids, it starts to conduct when it gets slightly positive. 
With the large resistor, the actual grid voltage just barely rises above 
the cathode level. Any cheap low voltage transistor, or simple 4000 CMOS 
device can drive it. My one digit nimo clock uses only common 2N3906 PNP 
transistors.


On Wednesday, April 25, 2018 at 6:48:32 AM UTC-7, GastonP wrote:
>
> Thanks for bringing back the Nimo specifications, Mike.
> Did anyone ever see the "4 decade" ones, or even the blue and red phosphor 
> models?
> The "6 decade" didn't even have a part number so it probably was in the 
> product line roadmap but never made it.
>
> Gastón
>
>>
>>

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[neonixie-l] Re: 4 digit nimo clock so far

[threeneurons]

On Monday, April 23, 2018 at 10:34:29 AM UTC-7, gregebert wrote:
 

> ... I'm unsure about the orientation of the display vs the tube pins.
>
>
Go to page 4 of the following document:

 https://threeneurons.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/iee_nimo808.pdf 


The anode "nib", is 18 degrees off of pin 12, making pin 11 roughly 9.7 
degrees off of dead top center. The "Compactron" base has 27.7 degree 
spacing between pins, according to all documents that I could find.

>From the tubes I have, the "nib" is top dead center. See the following 
photo:



Look at the internal structure. The nib seems centered within it. But the 
digits seem offset laterally:



 


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[neonixie-l] Re: My little IN-13 Spectrum Analyser

[threeneurons]

That's a beaut ! I have a current obsession with color organs. Going to 
make a couple with thyratrons. That plus neon, and my eyes definitely lit 
up !

IN-13's use 4.5mA max. x18 channels its 81mA, so its not really that bad.

What order filters ? Or trick it a little by upping the Q ?

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[neonixie-l] Holy (Neon) H !

[threeneurons]

My nephew dumped an "H" sign character off at the shop. I just saw it there 
one day. I asked him about it, and he said, it was gift for a friend ... 
after it was converted to LEDs. He asked if I could do it, and also make it 
respond to sound. I said, sure, and that I actual make a kit, to do the 
very thing he wanted. I peaked inside, and found the following:



A big neon H, about 2 x 2 feet (or a little bigger than half a meter a 
side).


So my payment for the conversion, is that I get to keep this large piece of 
neon filled glass. Btw, its lit up by an old ignition coil, driven by a 555 
chopper circuit.

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[neonixie-l] Re: MCU religious wars (OT?)

['threeneurons' via neonixie-l]

I like Arduinos, and I also still program AVRs in assembly. I see Arduinos 
as nice trainers, and also a way to make a quick-n-dirty "smart" project. 
Love the libraries !

I have a hierarchy of pain, when it comes to deciding to do a task in 
assembly, or use a high level language, like C. Based mostly on the final 
binary memory size. But the need for doing so, is mostly emotional now, as 
opposed to economic. I started programming on 8080s and Z80s. The code was 
stashed on several EPROMs, that took a couple of minutes each to program. 
The first microcontrollers, I used extensively, was the HC05. Squeezing 
code into a tight space made sense back then, because the UV erasable chips 
cost over $50 each. Even the "one-time" programmable devices cost ~$10 
each. Now the mega88 I use on my clock kits cost ~$1.80, while its big 
brother, the mega328, used on Arduinos, cost just a tad over $2. The price 
difference is negligible.

Just be glad you don't have to wait 20 minutes or more, to erase your 
devices. I still have a UV eraser floating around somewhere. Don't ask me 
where. I haven't used it in close to 20 years.

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[neonixie-l] Re: Pixie thermometer question

['threeneurons' via neonixie-l]

I'd get rid of the 1Ks, and go directly. They are powered, from the same 5V 
supply ? Unterminated TTL inputs float to ~1.6V, look like an "iffy" 
logic-1. To drag them down to solid logic-0 (0.8V min) requires a "sink" 
current of 1.6mA for old standard TTL. A 1K is too big. Unused TTL inputs 
are almost always terminated high, as the "source" current to a good 
logic-1 (>2.0V) is much smaller than the sink current. To terminate 
original TTL low, would require a resistor ~220 ohms.

On Wednesday, January 24, 2018 at 2:26:19 PM UTC-8, Jonathan wrote:
>
> Hi All, 
>
> I am finally getting around to soldering up a pixie tube thermometer 
> that I bread boarded quite a while back. It uses a PIC and two 
> SN7414N's. On the bread board I have 1k resistors in series from the 
> output pins of the PIC to the input pins of the SN74141Ns.  Usually I am 
> using shift registers but with a two digit thermometer I am coming 
> directly off of the PIC pins. I can't seem to remember why I put the 
> series resistors in there. Are they required? 
>
> Forgetfully yours, 
>
> Jonathan 
>
>

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[neonixie-l] OT: All Tube Color Organ

['threeneurons' via neonixie-l]

Not just being enamored with nixies, and dekatrons, but tubes in general. 
At least they're gas filled thyratrons. Not a display tube, but they can 
control some pretty bright light emitters (light bulbs), in the form of a 
color organ. Of course, I'm not the first to do this. There's a project 
article, on it from 1959:

https://threeneurons.files.wordpress.com/2017/11/radio-news_color-organ.pdf

But this circuit has some deficiencies, that possibly propagated into the 
solid state circuits, of the 60's and 70's:




The main problem, is that both thyratrons & thyristors (TRIACs & SCRs), are 
either ON or OFF. No linear section. That means brightness is adjusted by 
using some for of pulse width modulation (PWM). When using AC line voltage, 
the device [i]turn-ON[/i] is delayed (per cycle) relative to the desired 
brightness. Earlier in each cycle for brighter output. This is how your 
everyday household lamp dimmers work.

But for some reason, this never made it into color organ circuits. In those 
circuits, if the music is loud enough, it turns ON the light. If it ain't 
the light stays OFF. Pretty hap-hazard.

In recent years, I've made TRIAC versions of the color organ, that DO 
properly convert the audio level, to the corresponding phase angle, in each 
half AC cycle.

I've been wondering if proper control could have been done with tubes only. 
That means thyratrons. I've purchased several types, in the last few 
months. I've already had 2D21s and 2050s, in my stash, but bought beefer 
6012s, 6014s (aka C1K), and 5559s for some serious current switching. I 
just finished a "proof of concept" circuit, and here's the results:

Basic concept:




My thyratron page:
https://threeneurons.wordpress.com/miscellaneous-projects/thyratrons/

And a video of the working circuit:
https://youtu.be/z7YYyiGx9Gg

Enjoy.

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[neonixie-l] Re: One Tube Nimo Clock

['threeneurons' via neonixie-l]

On Wednesday, January 3, 2018 at 7:01:23 AM UTC-8, Nick wrote:
>
> Interesting! I have a bunch of IEE 6000-31-s that need a use, as well 
> as some XM1000s and BA -P31s. Big problem s the holders...
>
> These are all P31 phosphors - green or yellow-green see 
> http://www.bunkerofdoom.com/tubes/crt/crt_phosphor_research.pdf  - 
> implication is a peak counting speed of about 1kHz.
>
> Would love to see a kit.
>
> Nick
>

The IEE parts use a common "compactron" base. The odd connection, is that 
anode "nib", at the side. I'm not going to use a socket, for the finished 
version, and the anode will be connected by way of a cushioned clamp, along 
the lines that Fran used (in the original video).  I don't know what those 
XM1000s use, but it could be pure unobtanium.

I'm pondering, a single digit nixie clock kit, which will use most of the 
same code. Also will be adding a mod in the instructions, to adapt it to 
these tubes. Instead of adding an RTC to the board, I'll leave a connector 
that will allow plugging in an Arduino RTC "breakout" board:



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[neonixie-l] Re: One Tube Nimo Clock

['threeneurons' via neonixie-l]

On Tuesday, January 2, 2018 at 5:45:22 AM UTC-8, Paul Andrews wrote:
>
> That dock is calling to me. 
>

In my infinite laziness, delaying finishing it, that dock spent a year 
looking like:



I chose the 6AQ5 for the output, since it was probably the most used output 
tube in TV sets in the tube era. And the 12AV6 because of all those AA5 
radios out there. Two of the most common tubes, towards the end of the tube 
days.

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[neonixie-l] Re: OT: Vacuum Tube Projects?

['threeneurons' via neonixie-l]

> * by useful i mean something you could use for a purpose and not just a 
> construction to decorate a shelf.
>

You mean functioning ?  I have a tube project, in the queue, that's visual, 
so its decorative, yet the tubes are functioning as designed. Its a tube 
color organ.

I've been bothered about the old SCR based color organ circuit that's been 
floating around since the 60's. It has NO true amplitude-to-phase-angle 
control. I actually make a TRIAC kit, that does the job properly, and I 
plan to make a tube version shortly. It will be using both vacuum tubes, 
and thyratrons.

Here's a timing diagram showing true phase control for TRIACs:



It will utilize single vacuum triode stages as voltage comparators, much 
like I'm doing here, with a transistor:



And here's an old tube color organ kit, that does NOT have decent phase 
control, even though the author believes it does, and is probably the bad 
example that continued over to solid state SCRs:

https://threeneurons.files.wordpress.com/2017/11/radio-news_color-organ.pdf



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[neonixie-l] Re: One Tube Nimo Clock

['threeneurons' via neonixie-l]

On Thursday, December 28, 2017 at 3:45:19 AM UTC-8, Dekatron42 wrote:
>
>
> Will this circuit work just as well with the Telefunken XM1000?
>
> /Martin
>

 Mostly, yes, with minor adjustments. Those being different basing and 
pinout. 1.5V, 120mA (XM1000) heater versus 1.1V, 200mA (Nimo) heater. 

Bigger issue is getting your hands on either type tube. These are very rare 
tubes. 

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[neonixie-l] One Tube Nimo Clock

['threeneurons' via neonixie-l]

A couple of months ago, Westdave & I ran across this youtube video: 
https://youtu.be/xmWg7CtN0Ac

Dave had a small stash of Nimo tubes, and had given me one, a couple of 
years earlier. That video, started us thinking about doing something with 
those tubes. In the meantime, A.J. Franzman showed up at a TRW swap meet, 
after a long absents, and ended up being the source of those tubes, that 
Dave owns. Found them at C & H Surplus, many years ago (when they still 
where in Pasadena), and bought out their whole inventory. It wasn't that 
many tubes. Probably ended up here in the Los Angeles area, since IEE (the 
maker of the Nimo tube) is based here, and still in business.

I just finished one tube clock. At least the circuit and code. Here's some 
info on it:

https://threeneurons.wordpress.com/miscellaneous-projects/

https://threeneurons.files.wordpress.com/2017/12/nimo_clock.jpg

https://threeneurons.files.wordpress.com/2017/12/nimo_hv.jpg

Here's a video of it running:

https://youtu.be/3h2t7slt8YM

Now to finish its case. Enjoy.

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[neonixie-l] Re: other uses for nixies

['threeneurons' via neonixie-l]

On Thursday, December 21, 2017 at 3:09:33 PM UTC-8, Allen Dutra wrote:
>
> Go all the way and do an neon oscilloscope Greg. We believe in you! :)
>
>
One of the early "Grid" computer models, had a dot matrix neon display. So 
if you find one of those, you can make a digital o-scope ! 

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[neonixie-l] Re: all my Nixie tubes are dying :(

['threeneurons' via neonixie-l]

 

>
>
What kind of sockets are used ?

I don't like using those socket pins that soldered directly into the PCB, 
with glass based tubes. Okay for older style octal based tubes. I like the 
pins to float. Especially for pricier tubes, like IN-18s. Could be losing 
gas.

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[neonixie-l] Couple More Arduino Dekatron Sketches

['threeneurons' via neonixie-l]

I added 3 more sketches. Two use an analog input, and turns the dekatron 
into a gauge/meter/magic eye. The other is a modification of Paul Andrew's 
clock. It's stand alone, with the hours and minutes adjustable thru two 
push button switches. Also different, from his, is that the dekatron only 
spins clockwise, though at a very high rate. This means this concept can be 
adapted to unidirectional dekatrons.

Sketch folder here:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B7bJyg1SZgcDRUVwM2ExTTB1Q0k

Look for sketches: Dekatron_t05i.ino, Dekatron_t06i.ino, & 
Dekatron_Clock01.ino

All need the timer 1 library, and use the timer 1 interrrupt.

video of the clock:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_U4TVAPoHD0


Video of the analog gauges:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fgo0i8K5lx8



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[neonixie-l] Re: Weird spot on XN-11 Anode

['threeneurons' via neonixie-l]

Very likely, the infamous "blue dot". The unused cathodes are clamped to 
62V. I believe those unused cathodes, at that potential work somewhat like 
the beam plates, in beam power tubes, like the 6L6. The blue, at or near an 
anode, seems dependent on current density. The greater it is the more 
likely you'll see the blue glow. On one of my "blue dot" experiments, I 
used the decimal point of a NL-841 as the anode, and it glowed a nice 
bright blue.

Crossing my fingers, knocking on wood, and rubbing my rabbits foot, I've 
yet to see it on one of nixie thermometers. They are clamped to 47V, and I 
even have one clamped to 24V ! Maybe, the nixie tubes used on that circuit 
(ZM1000, IN-14, IN-8-2) aren't prone to blue dot.

On Friday, June 30, 2017 at 11:58:14 AM UTC-7, Roddy Scott wrote:
>
> Folks,
>
> I put a set of XN-11s into a PV Electronics QTC board and I am getting 
> some weird things happening.
> Blurred and missing numerals and a spot on the anode mesh.
>
>
> 
> Any ideas on this as I am totally in the dark as to why?
>

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[neonixie-l] Re: tubes/valves and Global Shipping

['threeneurons' via neonixie-l]

eBay's Global Shipping Program is a big stinking turd. I never use it, and 
never will !

Be glad they won't ship tubes. Their employees, besides being under 
educated, are probably poorly trained, if at all. I wouldn't trust them to 
properly pack 1/2" steel plate. They'll manage to break it. Packing, in the 
modern world, seems to be rocket science, and all the employees only care 
about is their paycheck. It doesn't matter if its the Global Shipping 
center, or Amazon, or McMaster. The packers are judged on speed. Throw the 
items in the box, chuck the packing list on top of that, and fill the 
remaining space with packing material. Seal it. Slap the labels on it, then 
throw it back on the conveyor belt ... next ! You ain't paid to think ! 

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[neonixie-l] Re: Shameless Plug: Arduino Shield for a Dekatron

['threeneurons' via neonixie-l]

Just occurred to me, that hours may be a bit weird. A dekatron having 30 
rods, works well for seconds and minutes. For those hands, just advance 
their locations, once every 2 seconds, or minutes, respective of which 
hand, it represents.

Hours is a bit odd. That's why on my original one dekatron clock, the "hour 
hand" dithers, around the correct hour position, since 30 doesn't divide 
evenly into 12.

But if its truly an analog representation, that need not be a requirement. 
Since on an old analog clock, all hands were in constant motion. So here, 
the "hours hand", advances every 24 minutes (0.4 hour), assuming a 12-hour 
clock.

On Thursday, June 1, 2017 at 6:02:26 PM UTC-7, Paul Andrews wrote:
>
> Clock code is on my github . This 
>> is a video of it running at 100x.
>>
>
> @greg. Yes it is an A101. I step between 'lit pins' about once every 
> 80-100us. I linger on each lit pin for about 7000us.
>
> It was inspired both those small persistence-of-vision USB clock/fan 
> gizmos.
>

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[neonixie-l] Re: Shameless Plug: Arduino Shield for a Dekatron

['threeneurons' via neonixie-l]

Wow ! That's just way too cool !

On Wednesday, May 31, 2017 at 9:53:22 PM UTC-7, Paul Andrews wrote:
>
> : https://youtu.be/LNCbABuIcr0
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: B5750 Nixie tubes for sale in a week or two...

['threeneurons' via neonixie-l]

If you believe the datasheets, the 5750 glass tube is ~0.15" (~4mm) taller. 
If it wasn't for an existing watch, they are "almost" the same tube. But 
since it is being crammed into a tiny space, that 0.15" will probably make 
a big difference.

http://www.tube-tester.com/sites/nixie/data/b5750s.htm

http://www.tube-tester.com/sites/nixie/data/b-5870st.htm

Only way, to really tell, is to get them "in hand", and see if it will fit. 
If not, I guess we'll see some tubes for sale.


On Saturday, May 20, 2017 at 12:03:38 AM UTC-7, Paolo Cravero wrote:
>
> Craig,
> I think 5750 and 5870 share the very same pinout, both physically and 
> electrically, right?
>
>

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[neonixie-l] Re: eBay GSP disposes of CRT for no reason

['threeneurons' via neonixie-l]

I thought eBay's Global Shipping Program (GSP) was a bad idea, from the 
get-go ! Just another reason not to use it.

When they introduced it, they automatically enabled it, in your settings. 
You had to go into your account settings, and turn it off. In general, its 
a rip-off ! Just another eBay "profit center". Its bad enough that shipping 
things to outside the US, starts at ~$13.50, for a minimal weight parcel 
(and upto 8 oz), but if I remember, the fees the GSP charges, are way above 
that !

Before 2012, you could ship things international, for ~$5. Before 2005, the 
postal service still had "surface mail", which meant they waited until a 
shipping container was filled up, before sending your parcel off, on a slow 
boat to oblivion. Cost was cheap, though it may take up to 3 months to get 
to your destination. Chinese still do the same thing, though it probably 
takes well less than a week to fill up one of their containers. 

Its best to pack the parcel yourself. Have you ever seen how most parcels 
arrive from Amazon, Granger, or McMaster ? The item(s) are usually tossed 
into the box, then those inflatable bags are tossed in on top of it. 
Padding is most often just the thickness of the cardboard box. That's fine 
for screws, and books, and even my kits. But not something you want to see 
when shipping a CRT !

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[neonixie-l] Re: Shameless Plug: Arduino Shield for a Dekatron

['threeneurons' via neonixie-l]

Just relisted some more kits. Will be kitting more, so the available count 
may bump up occasionally, or it will be relisted again. In short, I have 
more.

>
> Dekatron Shield Kit 
> 
>
> Video 
>

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[neonixie-l] Re: Shameless Plug: Arduino Shield for a Dekatron

['threeneurons' via neonixie-l]

I've got plenty of boards, and most of the parts. Looked in my 1uf 250V 
bin, which usually has plenty of parts, and its damn near empty. Have them 
on order, from two places (can never have enough), and will kit, and list 
them, when ready. Hopefully, early next week.

I've got plenty of project ideas, based around this board. So, if I don't 
get hit by a truck (higher probability than you would think), I should be 
stocking this kit for a good long time. 

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[neonixie-l] Shameless Plug: Arduino Shield for a Dekatron

['threeneurons' via neonixie-l]

If you're familiar with the Arduino, here's a shield that will plug into an 
Arduino Uno, so that sketches can control the dekatron. It also has an A101 
socket built in. I have three sample sketches available, and more to come. 
No charge on the sketches.

Dekatron Shield Kit 


Video 

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[neonixie-l] Re: Spotted on Ebay: B6091/NL8423 nixies (larger 20mm/0.8 inch). Manufactured 1985

['threeneurons' via neonixie-l]

I used 6091s on my wall clock, a couple of years back:



https://threeneurons.wordpress.com/nixie-power-supply/my-nixie-clocks/


Nice tubes. They're holding up well, though its only been a couple of 
years. They were used, quite a bit, before i got my hands on them, due to 
some silvering on the side. Still work very well.


On Thursday, May 4, 2017 at 9:25:30 PM UTC-7, gregebert wrote:
>
> These are noticeably larger than the more-common 0.6" b5092s.
> Not my auction, but I bought a lot of 6 (new-in box/mint condition). 
> Apparently the seller has a stockpile.
>
>
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/6-PIECES-NOS-type-6091-8423-NATIONAL-NIXIE-TUBES-Large-Top-View-GUARANTEED-NEW-/172657232661?hash=item28332c4b15:g:-KAAAOSwo4pYl55u
>
> I was surprised to see the 8522 date-code; the only other tubes I've 
> encountered that were manufactured more recently are from the USSR.
>
>

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[neonixie-l] Re: Taylor Edge Nixie Clock Kit

['threeneurons' via neonixie-l]

On Friday, March 31, 2017 at 4:42:53 AM UTC-7, Chuck wrote:
>
> 360 ohms is way too little resistance for *any* sort of 
> TTL pullup resistor!  That apparently got confused with 
> the standard *pull down* resistor used to keep an unattended 
> TTL input *low*.   360 ohms for a TTL pulldown is just right. 
>
> 2.2k ohms is the standard value to use as a TTL pullup. 
> That goes for regular old 7400 series TTL, as well as 74LS 
> series.   
>
> The old military practice was to always use 1k ohm as the 
> standard TTL pullup resistor value.  Note that even when using 
> that 1k pullup resistance, that all we are asking of any TTL 
> gate which is pulled up by this, is to be able to provide 5 
> milliamperes 
> in order for for the output to go low. 
>
> Even that value of 1k ohm would work ok with either plain 7400 or 
> 74LS. 
>
> 2.2k is much more like it, however. 
> At that value, all we are asking is 2.3 mA, and that works fine. 
>
> 360 ohms is just simply too close to being a piece of wire!! 
>
> (This is all explained in great detail on page 12 of Don Lancaster's 
> famous TTL Cookbook) 
>
>
I think he's stuck with the low value resistors, because he's making 
Schmitt triggered gates out of 7417s. The feed back resistor has to work 
both as a pulldown, and pullup. As noted, TTL source and sink, are very 
asymmetrical. 

This is one, of several reasons, I prefer, 4000 series CMOS over 74 TTL, 
when it comes to older logic families. CMOS is symmetrical. It has high 
impedance inputs, and you're not stuck with a 5V supply. On my "new" 
thermometer kit, I run the CMOS on 12V. Here is the set switch scheme on my 
old nixie clock board:



The "seconds-to-minutes" and "minutes-to-hours" pulses are passed thru 
1000pf caps, feeding 4.7K loads, that normally sit at 5V. It has to use a 
5V supply due to the 74141 drivers, also used. Short pulses are seen at the 
respective inputs, for minute, and hour, "bumps". Setting is done thru 4093 
Schmitt gates, which are made "open drain", by using 1N914 diodes, in their 
output legs. Since its 4000 CMOS, a logic-0 is anything under 1/3 supply, 
or ~1.5V or less. A logic-1 is anything over 2/3 supply (>3.5V). The 0.7V 
diode drop is a non-issue, here. Punching the "hours" or "minute" button, 
increases the count by one, per depression. No goofy accelerated clock 
scheme. This would be much more difficult to implement in TTL.

 
 

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[neonixie-l] Re: Taylor Edge Nixie Clock Kit

['threeneurons' via neonixie-l]

I'm a little late to the party, and the discussion between old 74xx versus 
74LSxx caught my attention. In most cases, I'd favor the newer 74LS over 
the original 74xx. But the resistor values (360 ohm) paint you into using 
the older series, because 5V / 360ohms gives you 13.9mA. The value seems to 
have been chosen because of the set switch resistor values.Of course as the 
OP mentioned, removing all the 360 ohm resistors lets the unit operate 
properly. The set switches may work adequately, too.



Personally, I prefer 4000 series CMOS, for this kind of thing.


Good to see that the OP, and his buddy, figured it out.

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[neonixie-l] Re: Inductor specs in threeneuron's HV PSU

['threeneurons' via neonixie-l]

Yep, when I saw the stock situation, I order some 82uH parts, and tested 
them, in excess of the recommended load. Worked great. I had already tested 
the RLB9014-101, way back when, but routinely ordered the RLB9012 part due 
to the extra safety margin. 

On Wednesday, March 22, 2017 at 2:24:48 PM UTC-7, Morten Mønsted wrote:
>
> Thanks for your answer :)
>
> As I read you, I could use either RLB0914-101 or RLB9012-082 instead?
>
> I just checked and I can get the RLB0914-101 from my supplier of choice!
>
>>
>>>

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[neonixie-l] Re: Inductor specs in threeneuron's HV PSU

['threeneurons' via neonixie-l]

The coil issued with the kit is a Bourns RLB9012-101. All major 
distributors (Mouser, Digikey, ...)  are currently out of stock, and back 
ordered to May. That coil is a tad overkill for what the supply is rated to 
output. The RLB0914-101 will also work to more than the posted maximum 
specs. So will a RLB9012-082 (82uH).

>
>

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[neonixie-l] Re: question about threeneurons clock kit

['threeneurons' via neonixie-l]

Only list the ones that ready to go out the door. I have parts & boards for 
a lot more. 

On Monday, March 20, 2017 at 3:51:48 AM UTC-7, Tomas Begley wrote:
>
>
>
> On Monday, 20 March 2017 10:26:55 UTC, Tomas Begley wrote:
>>
>> @threenurons  I noticed that you sold out of the full kit options, do you 
>> have any scope for doing more of the full kit options? or even if you only 
>> did full kit minus the drive chips that would be okay.
>>
>> regards 
>>  Tomas
>>
>> my bad just saw the new listing
>>
>

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[neonixie-l] Re: Radioactive Nixies - Study

['threeneurons' via neonixie-l]

A krytron. A gas filled cold cathode trigger tube, containing radioactive 
material used to detonate a nuke.


A few years back, Westdave had just visited his cardiologist, the day 
before the TRW swapmeet. He had an exam, that required ingesting some 
radioactive "juice". At the swapmeet, a vendor was selling a working geiger 
counter. Dave lit up that puppy.



>

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[neonixie-l] Re: question about threeneurons clock kit

['threeneurons' via neonixie-l]

Ya mean for unused cathodes, like 6 thru 9 on the 10's minute, and 10's 
seconds ? Nope, it doesn't exercise those unused cathodes. I'm of the 
opinion, if those tubes are going to stay in that clock "forever", then it 
doesn't matter. 

On Friday, March 10, 2017 at 4:31:21 AM UTC-8, Tomas Begley wrote:
>
> Hi I am new here but have been a fan of nixies for a while now and as such 
> I have been trawling the net looking for a decent clock 
> kit. threeneurons one seems to fit the bill but on his site, I haven't seen 
> mention of cathode poisoning prevention I was wondering if it does and 
> wasnt mentioned or if it doesn't and if so why not?
> thanks
>Tomas
>

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[neonixie-l] Re: Wanted: best few photos of Nixies in military equipment

['threeneurons' via neonixie-l]

I'd like to see some, too.

Back in the mid to late 80's, the US military put out a joint recruitment 
commercial on TV. It was highlighting the high tech equipment, all the 
branches used, implying that the recruits will get career building tech 
skills. One of the shots was a piece of gear, inside a tank, that clearly 
used nixie tubes. That gave me a chuckle, at the time, since nixies were 
long obsolete by the time, that commercial aired.

That commercial has to be floating around somewhere.  

On Monday, February 20, 2017 at 11:23:41 PM UTC-8, johnk wrote:
>
> I would like to get a few good pictures of Nixies in military equipment 
> [not expecting it to be mobile stuff].Preferably not generally available 
> test equipment but could be support equipment in the Defence industry.
> Can anyone point to their favourites please?
>  
> John Kaesehagen
> Australia
>

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[neonixie-l] Re: In18 displaying cathode poisoning after 1000hrs or less.

['threeneurons' via neonixie-l]

I took a look at the schematic, and anode resistors (R2-R7, direct drive) 
are 10K. The voltage drop across each of these resistors should be at least 
40V, for 4mA MINIMUM anode current. Put a meter across the anode resistor 
of an offending tube, and report back the voltage.

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[neonixie-l] Re: A tube for less than $5

['threeneurons' via neonixie-l]

1000 pieces is too rich for me. Maybe we can pool our resources. Now all we 
need is a time machine ...

In Fall of of 1966, when this ad was published, I went with my father to 
the local VW dealer to pick up his new '67 Beetle. I was only 8 at the 
time. I think he paid ~$1700 for that car.

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Raytheon nixie glow

['threeneurons' via neonixie-l]

>
> Raytheon had a lot of military contracts as far as I know. 
> That right there would make sense for their superior reliability. 
>
> Chuck 
>
>
Raytheon, today, is nothing but a large defense contractor. All this coming 
up from their humble beginnings with products like this B-H tube:



I have a few Raytheon dekatrons of 3 different models. But no Raytheon 
nixies.

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[neonixie-l] Re: What voltage/current to run tubes at

['threeneurons' via neonixie-l]

On Wednesday, February 8, 2017 at 9:50:59 AM UTC-8, kitehman wrote:
>
>
> so i should shoot for just under the 2.5ma current rating and go for 
> lowest striking voltage? higher voltage for a brighter display?
>

Yes, I would aim at 2.5mA. Exact value +/- not critical. You will find, 
that once they strike, the maintaining voltage, is relative constant, as 
you change the supply voltage. They are gas filled cold cathode tubes, and 
just like neon bulbs, and tubes like the 0A3 and 0B2, they act as voltage 
regulators. Very similar to a zener diode. So if you increase the supply 
voltage, the neon voltage will increase ever so slightly, while most of the 
voltage change will be across the anode limiting resistor. Since the 
current is the voltage across that resistor divided by the voltage, then 
the current will increase, and so will the brightness.

Its been suggested earlier, that you should look at pulse width modulation 
(pwm). to adjust brightness. That is use a fixed value for supply voltage 
and anode resistors, to get roughly 2.5mA per tube. But add a pass 
transistor to your supply so you can turn it ON and OFF at a rate faster 
than your eye can perceive flicker. For most people this is faster than 
~30Hz. What exact frequency is not important. On the low end, visual 
flicker is your boundary. At the high end, its the turn ON time of nixies. 
It takes time for a nixie to ionize. I ran experiments on speed a tad over 
10 years ago. The fastest I could get a nixie to turn ON, was a ZM1000, 
with its primer electrode always ON, and a 200V supply. I could get it to 
turn ON in 7uS. 20 to 30 is typical for most nixie tubes. 50uS nominal 
worse case.


Nixie Details 

So, in practical terms, I would set the minimum ON time for about 200uS. So 
if you pick a PWM frequency of 100Hz, you'll get max brightness at 10mS 
(0.01sec, 1uS), and minimum at say 200uS, for a 50:1 brightness range. 
Your eyes don't see linearly, though, so as you view it, that 50:1, will 
look more like 5.6:1 (almost 6:1). 

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[neonixie-l] Re: What voltage/current to run tubes at

['threeneurons' via neonixie-l]

See what voltage you need for the tube to strike in a dark room.

If you run the tubes at too low current, you risk cathode poisoning. It 
won't appear immediately, but takes time. Weeks or months. What you'll 
eventually see is only partial illumination of the digits. Positive neon 
ions hit the lit cathode, sneding that cathode's metal flying. That metal 
covers its unlit neighbors. When those unlit cathodes have their turn at 
being ON, they can shake of that crud, but only if the current is high 
enough. If too low, that crud builds up, causing dark unlit splotches on 
the cathodes.

So, if the current is too high, you just ear out the cathodes too quickly, 
but also if the current is too low, you won't allow them to clean 
themselves. Operate in the recommended current range for that tube model.

Other tube model thoughts. If the nixies are to be ON 24/7 such as in a 
clock, then only use long life tubes, containing mercury, for those. Of the 
Russian devices, those are: IN-8-2, IN-12 (A & B), IN-14, IN-16, IN-17, & 
IN-18

Save the non-mercury tubes (IN-1, IN-2, & IN-4) for items that are on 
transiently, like meters and games. 

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[neonixie-l] Re: Another day, another clock

['threeneurons' via neonixie-l]

On Monday, February 6, 2017 at 3:50:25 PM UTC-8, Ben W wrote:
>
>  Let me ask you something, do you notice flickering on your dekatron? 
> It looks like you are using the "pie" type animation, I'm using your kit 
> for another clock and opted for the "processing" type because the 
> flickering was very prevalent above 30-40 seconds counting, since I assume 
> the neon dot has to dance around a lot to light that many positions.
>
>
Yes, the dot has to travel, one point at a time, so when all pins are lit, 
the glow has to cover its maximum distance, hence the refresh rate slows 
down, and it does flicker. If I were to increase the clock rate to 16MHz 
(currently 8MHz), it will probably disappear. But to do that, I need an 
external clock, or xtal. One or two more IO bits that I don't have in its 
current incarnation.

I almost managed to get it coded inside 4K, which would allow me to use a 
ATmega48 chip, But that trimmed too many features. Currently the code size 
is about 5.5K. 

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Another day, another clock

['threeneurons' via neonixie-l]

On Monday, February 6, 2017 at 2:33:05 PM UTC-8, Pramanicin wrote:
>
> Bravo! I like the wood/gold effect...the use of the orange LED is an 
> interesting one...didn't want to keep the neon theme there?
>

I wanted to use the light pipe, and neons, even the brightest ones, really 
aren't bright enough. LEDs on the other hand can be too bright, if you run 
them at their recommended currents (~20mA). On this unit, the LED only has 
~8mA passing thru it. 

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[neonixie-l] Re: Mounting IN-18 tubes

['threeneurons' via neonixie-l]

>
> Does anyone have any suggestions about how to mount IN-18 tubes?
>

I was worried about that, too, when I made my latest clock



The socket scheme for the IN-18s is covered at my Improvised Socket 

 
page.


There are holes in the base, below those tubes, that match the tube pin 
arrangement, including nipple. But they are drilled well over sized to 
allow the sleeved socket pins pass thru, with no friction. The pins float, 
and there is just the slightest amount of friction against the base. A tube 
will, however, pull out, with only a few ounces of force. This does mean, 
that you have wire a large wiring harness.


 



 

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[neonixie-l] Re: Another day, another clock

['threeneurons' via neonixie-l]

My latest clock:



I decided to stick it in this thread, as opposed to creating a new one, 
because of some of the similarities between this clock, and the one 
initiating this thread,


Both use smaller nixies for the *seconds*, and both use a unique *colon*. 
In the case, of the original, the *seconds* nixies is/are(?) the *colon*. 
Not in the case of my clock. In mine the hours and minutes are IN-18s, and 
the seconds are much smaller Burroughs B5991 tubes. My colon is a 1/4" 
acrylic rod, with two rings roughened up on it, so that the light emits at 
those rings, forming the colon. The light comes from an orange LED at its 
base. The clock circuit is my standard uC clock kit, with the only real 
modification being the one to power an LED instead of a neon bulb.


Also, it was just a coincidence, on the common themes, between these two 
clocks. I was already pretty far along in the construction of my clock when 
the OP posted his.


My clocks 



Video in action 

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[neonixie-l] Re: How ICs are made - the inside track...

['threeneurons' via neonixie-l]

In 1985, shortly after, I got out of school, they just broke the 1 micron 
barrier. I think wafers were ~5" (~130mm).

>From the few people I've known, that were in the semi business, they change 
"mask sets" for parts routinely, for an existing part. This is due to 
keeping up to the current process (shrinking resolution, and growing wafer 
size, etc). So a 555 made today is not the same 555 made 30 years go, 
Probably not the same one made 2 years ago.

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[neonixie-l] Re: IN-13 Lifespan

['threeneurons' via neonixie-l]

A couple of data points, but by no means statistically significant. I've 
had an IN-13 running in my nixie thermometer (pre-kit) for close to 2 
years, now, 24/7, and it runs and looks like new. One of my TRW buddies has 
a simple "winker", that uses the IN-13. It still glows and winks, but its 
no longer anchored. The glow, grow and shrinks, in the middle, and drifts a 
bit. That tube has been running constantly, for at least 5 years.

These tube tubes may have come from "good" batches, that exceed the 
average. They could just be average. Without taking a survey of a lot of 
tubes, who knows.

If you had been over driving them, the graphs would have been "pegged", 
visually, most of that time. If they were bouncing to the music, then you 
were not over driving them. Maybe you just got some from the wrong end of 
the statistical life curve.
   

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[neonixie-l] Re: Crossfade

['threeneurons' via neonixie-l]

On Friday, January 20, 2017 at 12:45:09 PM UTC-8, Soren Kuula wrote:
>
> Hi - I am a complete newbie to nixies.
> I have seen some vids of a nice cross fade in tubes, where the next digit 
> lights up as the previous one fades out.
>
>
>
Crossfading was covered a couple of months ago:

 https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/neonixie-l/bh7kymv2xQA 


I use PWM, but the fade pattern follows RC decay, encoded in a look-up 
table.

I do this because visual perception is not linear. My early display designs 
did use linear crossfading, so that the sum of old and new "ON-times" was 
constant. Using the RC model is non-linear, so that the sum of the old and 
new, is minimum, at the mid-point, when both are equal, but the blank 
period is maximum. Visually, this scheme looks nicer.

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: FS: Shameless Plug - NEW Nixie Thermometer Kit

['threeneurons' via neonixie-l]

On Friday, December 2, 2016 at 8:57:28 PM UTC-8, OrangeGlow wrote:
>
> Just wanted to say how much I like the kit.  It works well - I just made 
> it as in the original instructions, but may use the modifications for 
> showing C° better.  The ZM1000 tubes are a very nice tube.
>
> Get the power supply - its only a few bucks and it is designed for this 
> circuit.  I nearly skipped it because I have some laying around but was 
> glad I went for it.
>
> Much more interesting design than a micro.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tom
>
>
Thank you for the kind words.

Microcontrollers are all the rage, especially with things like the Arduino. 
In "real" products, they are just a fact of life. But these thermometers 
are hobby toys, and you really want to see what's going on, instead of a 
bunch of wires going into, and out of, a little "magic" black box.

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[neonixie-l] Re: FS: Shameless Plug - NEW Nixie Thermometer Kit

['threeneurons' via neonixie-l]

Now two versions. The NT2Z which comes with the ZM1000 nixie tubes

and the new NT2R version, which is sold with no tubes, but made to 
accommodate the Russian IN-14:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/152341485181

Will also fit Russian IN-8-2, and Hivac XN11 tubes.

On Wednesday, October 26, 2016 at 4:57:58 PM UTC-7, threeneurons wrote:
>
> Just finished my new nixie thermometer kit. Its almost the same, as the 
> one-off unit, I made a while back. Main difference, other than the PCB, is 
> that it uses the LM35 instead of the LM34 temp sensor. The LM35 outputs 
> 10mV per degree Celsius. But the kit can display in either Fahrenheit or 
> Celsius, by a simple jumper selection. Pretty good trick, since the kit 
> does not use microcontroller (no programmable parts).
>
> Nixie Thermometer Kit <http://www.ebay.com/itm/152295238799>
>
> It also includes 2 NOS/NIB ZM1000 nixie tubes. At least for the initial 
> run. Later versions will be made to accommodate, more common Russian tubes, 
> which will NOT be included.
>
> And these truly are NOS/NIB (New Old Stock / New in Box). An Amperex box, 
> and branded tubes. Amperex was a Philips company, and these "virgin" 
> ZM1000s were made in the Netherlands. 
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] First Build. Some help to decide

['threeneurons' via neonixie-l]

Voltage is irrelevant, other than just being high enough to initiate 
ionization. These are not modern digital logic ICs. Things are not that 
precise. This is kit, so there are anode current limiting resistors 
preventing excess current. I don't know your electronics background, but 
voltage and current are two different things. Voltage is "pressure", and 
current is electron flow rate. You need pressure, for flow, so they are 
related but different. Look at nixie basics:



My nixie page 

What you are reading on its datasheet, is probably the maintaining voltage. 


Nixies are much like LEDs, as its a "current" device, as in electrical 
current. The voltage drop (potential difference) finds its own value. For 
LEDs its ~1.8V for red, ~3V for blue, and between 130 to 150V for a nixie. 
The difference, however, other than voltage magnitude, is that an LED 
plateaus at its voltage, where you need to reach a much higher "strike 
voltage", with a nixie, and once it "strikes" (ionizes), the voltage across 
the nixie drops, to its maintain (or sustain) voltage. A simple resistor 
works fine in keeping excess current from damaging either an LED or nixie. 
(see drawing). Yes, you do need to know math. Get over it, and learn.


As far as glowing wires. I assume the nixies are running in the kit. If 
not, are you using a limiting resistor ?

Get a 170VDC source, or more, and run the individual numerals over time 
(hours, days). This may just be "sleeping sickness", which is a temporary 
form of cathode poisoning. Start with one numeral, and let it run until, 
the numeral fully illuminates. Then go to the next numeral, until all 10 
numerals (0-9) glow properly. Again remember to include the limiting anode 
resistor, in the path. (see drawing). 

On Thursday, November 24, 2016 at 6:18:08 AM UTC-8, BooBooBeGone wrote:
>
> Found a datasheet online, stating that fire voltage for the Z566 is 150v
> Max voltage 170v
>
> Since i have 170V at the moment, maybe i shoul try to set it at around 
> 160V?
>

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[neonixie-l] Re: Favorite cross-fading algorithms...

['threeneurons' via neonixie-l]

On Sunday, November 13, 2016 at 6:10:49 AM UTC-8, Nick wrote:
>
> Just wondering what people's favorite smooth cross-fading algorithms
>
>
On my current multiplexed clock kits, I've been using an exponential decay 
and complementary rise:



Completed over a half second period. The duty cycle for the "old" and "new" 
values are stored in a look-up table, that was calculated on a spreadsheet. 
Blanking (dark) period is greatest in the middle, so the total light does 
dip in transition.


Seems to work okay in 1 of 6 multiplexing, with an AVR chip at 8MHz.
  

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[neonixie-l] Re: FS: Shameless Plug - NEW Nixie Thermometer Kit

['threeneurons' via neonixie-l]

On Wednesday, October 26, 2016 at 4:57:58 PM UTC-7, threeneurons wrote:
>
>
> Nixie Thermometer Kit <http://www.ebay.com/itm/152295238799>
>
>
Just a note. I noticed some that bought this kit, did not buy a HV Supply 
kit along with it. This kit does not make its own 170V, so a supply like my 
NK01A kit is needed. You can use someone elses supply, or make their own.  

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[neonixie-l] FS: Shameless Plug - NEW Nixie Thermometer Kit

['threeneurons' via neonixie-l]

Just finished my new nixie thermometer kit. Its almost the same, as the 
one-off unit, I made a while back. Main difference, other than the PCB, is 
that it uses the LM35 instead of the LM34 temp sensor. The LM35 outputs 
10mV per degree Celsius. But the kit can display in either Fahrenheit or 
Celsius, by a simple jumper selection. Pretty good trick, since the kit 
does not use microcontroller (no programmable parts).

Nixie Thermometer Kit 

It also includes 2 NOS/NIB ZM1000 nixie tubes. At least for the initial 
run. Later versions will be made to accommodate, more common Russian tubes, 
which will NOT be included.

And these truly are NOS/NIB (New Old Stock / New in Box). An Amperex box, 
and branded tubes. Amperex was a Philips company, and these "virgin" 
ZM1000s were made in the Netherlands. 

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[neonixie-l] Re: Free Gerber Files - Nixie Clock

['threeneurons' via neonixie-l]

There are a couple of warning messages, but the files are otherwise "clean".

Here is a free gerber file viewer, from Pentalogix:

Viewmate 

On Friday, October 14, 2016 at 3:06:08 AM UTC-7, electrofish wrote:
>
> Hi
> having used OSH Park before I sent the zip file off and came back with a 
> few errors which to me, being a non developer, left me without a clue : )
>
>

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[neonixie-l] Re: OT: Help with Polish Address

['threeneurons' via neonixie-l]

Issue resolved. The buyer has confirmed, that he has finally received the 
package, and its up and running.

Thanks, again, for those who helped out.

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Re: [neonixie-l] Free Gerber Files - Nixie Clock

['threeneurons' via neonixie-l]

On Tuesday, October 11, 2016 at 2:20:24 PM UTC-7, Paolo Cravero wrote:
>
>
> I do hope to design and release my own board for B5092/Z560M and alike, as 
> well as 6x IV-3, IV-6 and IV-22 VFD's.
>
> Thanks,
> Paolo
>
>
>> Threeneurons Public Folder 
>> <https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B7bJyg1SZgcDfnotcC1odDhIV28wRDA1NEJael9yOUNnU2lDcDAyWnVZNjFzOW9RTGV6WTA>
>>
>> --
>>
>
Your welcome, Paolo.

I'll have to look into end view tubes, like the B5092. As for the VFD 
types, that's a whole different technology and must handled differently.

I've uploaded two more ZIP files.  One similar to the initial IN-14 board, 
but for the ZM1000. The other is a homemade socket for A101 dekatrons 
intended to be stuffed with 0.093" female Molex pins.

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[neonixie-l] Free Gerber Files - Nixie Clock

['threeneurons' via neonixie-l]

I have been selling a nixie clock kit on eBay, for some time. The board 
that mounts the actual nixie tubes must be hand built separately, and its 
not part of the kit. No such board has been made, due to  the large variety 
of nixie tubes available. So as not to stock bunch of boards, I'm starting 
to layout board artwork, that I'm letting other people turn into actual 
boards. You can make your own, or send them to your favorite board house. 
So far I've just got the one for 6 IN-14 nixie tubes. Since the arrangement 
of the IN-8-2 is similar, it can be made to fit, too. Look for ZIP files, 
in my public Google folder:

Threeneurons Public Folder 
<https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B7bJyg1SZgcDfnotcC1odDhIV28wRDA1NEJael9yOUNnU2lDcDAyWnVZNjFzOW9RTGV6WTA>

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[neonixie-l] Re: NOT another nixie clock!

['threeneurons' via neonixie-l]

I'll add my 2 cents to what I want in a meter. A true RMS meter, that goes 
into the RF range. Linear Technologies use to make a chip that helped do 
that:

http://www.linear.com/product/LT1088

Unfortunately, its been discontinued, but the concept still applies.

How you implement the greater functionality, is up to you.

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[neonixie-l] Re: OT: Help with Polish Address

['threeneurons' via neonixie-l]

I have two people looking things up.

Thank you for your help.

On Saturday, October 8, 2016 at 10:07:02 PM UTC-7, threeneurons wrote:
>
> I need someone familiar with addresses in Poland, to help me with an 
> address. Apparently, a parcel went missing. It got to Poland, then 
> disappeared. Please contact me privately, at my junk email threeneurons at 
> yahoo.com 
>

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[neonixie-l] OT: Help with Polish Address

['threeneurons' via neonixie-l]

I need someone familiar with addresses in Poland, to help me with an 
address. Apparently, a parcel went missing. It got to Poland, then 
disappeared. Please contact me privately, at my junk email threeneurons at 
yahoo.com 

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[neonixie-l] Re: T-Shirts are finally available. Dekatron and Magic Eye shirts from discussion earlier this year.

['threeneurons' via neonixie-l]

> email: nixiekeith on gmail. ... email me directly.  
>
>
> - Keith
>

Thank you ... I'll make a note of that.

Some good news, just after I posted a rant about eBay. 
 

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[neonixie-l] OT: Rant - eBay Sucks ! Shipping Calculator

['threeneurons' via neonixie-l]

I've been having a little (losing) battle with eBay lately, on about 
international shipping. I've been shorted on 4 transactions, in the last 
month. Their customer service reps are totally ignorant of their own 
policies. In the modern age, that, sadly, seems to be the norm. I've made 4 
calls. On the middle two, the reps, looked at the transactions, and noted 
the difference, between what the charged, and my actual costs. They acted 
as if they would reimburse me, my shortfall. Today, I noticed a buyer, in 
Japan ordered two supply kits, but was only charged $6.97. The post office 
will charge me $13.50. The first flunky, today, told me that I setup my 
shipping parameters incorrectly. Which is an off-the-cuff blame the seller 
excuse. I eventually managed to get to his supervisor. He told me two very 
important things, none of the past calls provided: (1) No reimbursements 
period. eBay Policy. (2) The shipping cost was not based on my shipping 
parameters, but the minimum US Postal Service price, for an ENVELOPE, 
containing tangible merchandise (not just paperwork).

I cancelled the transaction. Changed my setting to "no international 
shipping", on that one item. The lower flunky, told me international 
buyers, can still put the item in their shopping cart, but need to contact 
me, in order to pay for it. So then, I can properly invoice them. His 
supervisor told me, to click "off" combined shipping, again, allowing me to 
invoice the buyer, once they see the "sticker shock" shipping charge.

I ONLY SHIP IN BOXES --- PERIOD !!!

Maybe, some replacement parts, in an envelope, but never a KIT.

>From the US it cost me: $9.50 minimum, to ship to Canada.
It cost either: $13.25/$13.50/$13.75 minimum, to ship to any other country 
(outside the US - I have to include this because too many Americans, are a 
little thick). Don't even ask about: UPS, FedEx, or DHL. All way higher !

Also, if any of you know a lawyer, that's in the "class action" business, 
put in your 2 cents. eBay really should have an option of making the 
seller, the final arbiter, of setting the price, before the buyer can pay.

I have, and always will, refund excessive shipping charges paid.

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Re: [neonixie-l] Digest for neoni...@googlegroups.com - 19 updates in 6 topics

['threeneurons' via neonixie-l]

Couldn't find any response either. He called me from Hawaii, a couple of 
days ago, so he's doing all his internet browsing from his iPhone. Could 
have hit the wrong button, by mistake. Sometimes, I lose my grip on my 
smartphone, and in the process accidentally start up all kinds of apps.

Good thing the cold war was over before smart phones. Transfer the nuke 
launch codes from the old "football", to the President's iPhone, and he 
starts WWIII when he answers his next phone call.

On Monday, August 29, 2016 at 9:39:52 PM UTC-7, A.J. Franzman wrote:
>
> Does anyone see where Westdave wrote anything new here? Considering 
> deleting the post and topic.
>
> On Sunday, August 28, 2016 at 12:28:03 PM UTC-7, westdave wrote:
> [huge digest quote]
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: New clock kit in the making

['threeneurons' via neonixie-l]

On Saturday, August 27, 2016 at 6:54:48 PM UTC-7, joenixie wrote:
>
> There was another on the list about 6mos ago, it was a kick starter ...
>
>>
>>
No wonder I forgot about it. Kickstarter and other crowd funding sites, 
were created with good intentions, but it seems the charlatans have caught 
on, and just use it as another avenue for their con games. So, I 
deliberately cleared that out of my mind.

Good luck with the kit. Should do well.   

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[neonixie-l] Re: New clock kit in the making

['threeneurons' via neonixie-l]

Now that's a neat concept ! Someone talked about using neon bargraphs (IN9 
or IN13) to make an analog clock, but I don't recall actually seeing one. 
Or maybe I did, and just forgot. Anyways, nicely done !

One of the bad things about getting old is the memory going. On the plus 
side, I can get away with a film catalog of only a half dozen films, and 
its like seeing the movie all over again.

On Saturday, August 27, 2016 at 7:11:50 AM UTC-7, joenixie wrote:
>
> Hi Yall,
>
> I've been working on a new clock kit. I hope to have it ready for 
> Christmas. I've attached a couple of pictures of the first one which was 
> built as a wedding present for my nephew. My wife hand painted the face. We 
> are planning to have the hand painted faces as an option. The second 
> picture shows off face more and how it looks with the switches and screws 
> in place. If I can figure it out, I plan to put plugs over the screws in 
> the final version and maybe caps over the switches if I can work it out.
>
> I'm also working on a different case. Sadly, I ran out of time before I 
> could get it completed. Thank God for Pier 1 Imports!
>
> -joe
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Maybe a stupid question...

['threeneurons' via neonixie-l]

>
> At least thats my plan tonight. Now to think on it some more. 
>

That's not counter, but free running sequencer. Here's the same circuit, 
redrawn:



The sequence pattern, is in the form of a star.


Here's a video of it running:

Neon Chase Lite Video 


The first time, I saw this circuit, was from a Radio Shack P-Box kit, I 
purchased, back in high school. That would be in the 70's.

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[neonixie-l] Re: Dekatron Experiments

['threeneurons' via neonixie-l]

On Wednesday, August 17, 2016 at 2:19:55 PM UTC-7, Keith Moore wrote:
>
> OMG! That 0A5 arc discharge dekatron spinner is amazing, too! 
>
>>
>>
 I built that thing a while back. I uploaded the video, for another forum, 
discussing arc discharge tubes:




0A5 Video 


One of the destructively cool things about this circuit, is how it 
continuously popped carbon film resistors in the R6 location. There, 
current pulses greater than 5 amps, would pass thru. A hole would be 
punched right thru the outer coating of the victimized resistor. I had to 
replace it with a wirewound, for reliable operation.


 

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[neonixie-l] Re: Dekatron Experiments

['threeneurons' via neonixie-l]

> Yeah. I saw the odd voltage levels too!
>

Oh on those. If you get a regular nixie supply; 170V. Make a divider out 
off 3 22K resistors, and the two voltages are 57V and 113V, which are just 
rounded off to 55V and 110V. That's assuming it was dead nuts on 170V to 
start with. Throw that 170V on a tripler and you get 510V. Again rounded 
off to 500V. All these voltages can vary quite a bit, and not effect 
operation.

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[neonixie-l] Re: Dekatron Experiments

['threeneurons' via neonixie-l]

Oh, yes, its a timing issue. It works fine with the guides detached. Its 
just more of a curiosity. Flipping the guide pins does make it switch to 
K1. I'll have to analyze my circuit timing more closely to discover the 
actual mechanism details. The reset is issued at the same time as the flip. 
Ideally this means its at a main cathode, and the guides should be off. But 
this is a simplistic circuit, where the prior "main" state, now becomes the 
new "G1" state. To fix it, here, would add complication. If someone wanted 
to use the pendulum circuit, with the reset on the second dekatron, its 
just simpler to rotate the tube such that K9 is on top. Its quite 
consistent.

In a microcontroller circuit, its a non-issue. To have the glow rest at a 
"main" cathode, the guides need to be off. So, you just turn both bits off, 
then issue your reset pulse. Also if its used in a microcontroller circuit, 
Cr is omitted. Recommended minimum pulse duration is 100uS. The reset can 
be used instead of monitoring the glow position, and waiting for the glow 
to be at K0 (NDX). 

On Tuesday, August 16, 2016 at 3:05:29 PM UTC-7, Dekatron42 wrote:
>
> Nice!
>
> Could it be that you have a timing issue with the guides not being totally 
> "off" when you do the reset?
>
> Or that the reset does not load the cathode enough so that the glow steps 
> to a lower potential, being K9? You can also check what happens if you 
> exchange the guides, then it should step to 1 instead of 9 - unfortunately 
> not telling you what the problem is but it should at least be another way 
> of measuring what's happening. One more thing to try is to add a resistor 
> in the RTN +55V power line as that then changes the balance between K0 and 
> the other guides.
>
> /Martin
>

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[neonixie-l] Re: Dekatron Experiments

['threeneurons' via neonixie-l]

On Wednesday, August 17, 2016 at 8:16:44 AM UTC-7, Nick wrote:
>
> Very nice!
>
> I like the discrete XOR gate but its a lot of complexity when you can get 
> a single "tiny logic" XOR gate from Fairchild, Texas or whoever for $0.10 - 
> one SOT-23 (as opposed to 4 diodes, 4 resistors and a transistor) and 
> you're there... :)
>
> Yeah. I saw the odd voltage levels too!
>
> Nick
>

That's actually the case with everything, when you compare old with new 
electronics. I can go the whole 9-yards (US term) and just use a 
microcontroller. Oh ... I do, its that damn DoHickie kit ! Modern 
technology has turned the economics upside down. So, this project is mostly 
a mental exercise. At least its more stable, than those log amp multiplier 
circuits they use to make us suffer thru, in lab experiments, back in 
school !
 

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[neonixie-l] Dekatron Experiments

['threeneurons' via neonixie-l]

Well, those who know me, know that I have attraction to dekatrons. Here's 
some of my latest tinkering. A long while back I designed a 4000 CMOS base 
pendulum circuit. It used a 4017 counter, and a 4013 flip-flop. I revisited 
that circuit, and came up with one that just uses on 4518 dual counter:



In addition to the one chip, and the HV interfacing transistors, there's a 
clever little piece of what Don Lancaster referred to as "Mickey Mouse 
logic". The one transistor and its associated components, in the pink 
field, form an exclusive-OR gate. Half the chip along with XOR ckt, make 
the guide timing circuit. The other half of the chip is used as the 
direction flip-flop. Circuits quite nicely. HV supplies, and clock, not 
shown.


In my test circuit, I decided to run two dekatrons. One master, and one 
slave. To align the slave tube, I added a reset circuit to K0 (normally 
used as the NDX). This forces the glow to K0, instantly. Here's that 
portion of the circuit:



I hooked it such that when QD (pin 14), of the IC went high, the reset was 
issued. That meant a reset every 10 'flips'.


It worked ... mostly. I noticed something strange. If I used a A101 as a 
slave, the glow reset to K0, as expected. But using several 6802's and a 
GC10B, the glow appeared to reset to K9. After some poking around, I 
decided to check the reset, with the guides (G1 & G2) off. Then, 
indifferent to tube type, the reset forced to glow to K0. So this new 
pendulum circuit "backsteps" some tubes from K0 to K9, almost instantly.


Here's a photo of the test circuit, and video of it running:






Video  of above circuit.


Enjoy




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[neonixie-l] Re: Australian Nixies!!

['threeneurons' via neonixie-l]

My apologies to Roddy. From the looks of that gallery, everybody, and their 
mom, has better brass skills than I do !

On Friday, July 22, 2016 at 1:02:47 AM UTC-7, Paul Parry wrote:
>
> Hi Mike, many thanks for the plug!
>
> Do need to make a correction though - the clock on the left was made by 
> Roddy and is in the Gallery, along with many clocks people have sent in 
> http://www.bad-dog-designs.co.uk/submitted.html have a look through, 
> there are some amazing creations in there - lots from many members of this 
> group!
>
> The clock on the right is one of mine though :)
>
>
>
> On Thursday, 21 July 2016 20:25:48 UTC+1, threeneurons wrote:
>
>> I'm currently trying to get my brass working skills up. Just good enough 
>> for trim, and few accents.
>>
>> The guy that has an eye for brass is Paul Parry (
>> http://www.bad-dog-designs.co.uk):
>>
>> Even with a lot of practice, by the time I'm a quarter as good as him, 
>> I'll be dead for 20-years !
>>
>> A couple of examples of his work:
>>
>> <http://www.bad-dog-designs.co.uk/images/Diy/Hot_1.jpg> 
>> <http://www.bad-dog-designs.co.uk/images/TThermo/TT_1.jpg>
>>
>>
>> Go to his site (see above). He's made a lot of clocks !
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, July 21, 2016 at 1:46:06 AM UTC-7, Roddy Scott wrote:
>>>
>>> I like that design, very simple but elegant.
>>>
>>> Wood shows off Nixies so well, add some brass and it is a winning 
>>> combination.
>>>
>>> The clock I am building just now features your Dekatron Spinner board 
>>> with an OG-4
>>>
>>

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[neonixie-l] Re: Some Brass for threeneurons!

['threeneurons' via neonixie-l]

All I can say is Wow !

That's some really nice work !

On Sunday, July 31, 2016 at 3:00:40 PM UTC-7, Roddy Scott wrote:
>
> Mike,
>
> here is a bit of brasswork for you from my latest clock, The Atomium 
> Clock, featuring CV5278s and a PV Electronics Dink kit, your Dekatron 
> Spinner and an OG-4 Dekatron.
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> 
>
>
> It is still in the finishing stages needing the tubes secured, brass 
> collars glued, base fitted and finally a bit of polishing!
>
> Apart from the modified plumbing fittings for the stand, I made everything 
> else in myshed!
>
> I am writing a full instructable on the build and will publish it when the 
> clock is finished in the next few days.
>

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