Bruce Walker wrote:
Dave's workflow dilemma reminded me I wanted to ask you folks if
anyone had experienced or heard of any issues or app breakage caused
by upgrading to Mac OS 10.12 Sierra?
I use an older Lightroom, 4.4. Also older Photoshop CS5 (12.0.4).
I'm running El Cap and LR 6.7.
I h
I have two OSX and one IOS device synced. OK so far.
Paul via phone
> On Oct 18, 2016, at 5:17 AM, Larry Colen wrote:
>
>
>
> Bruce Walker wrote:
>> Dave's workflow dilemma reminded me I wanted to ask you folks if
>> anyone had experienced or heard of any issues or app breakage caused
>> by u
Bruce, i use LR 4.1 with the 4.4 upgrade stored on my computer. Do i
take it if i upgrade to 4.4 it should be ok using El Captain.??
I know my old PS 8, or CS will not work nor will PSEL 9. My Fetch
5.3.1 should and i think the internet says my Word for Mac 2012 will,
those are the most programs i
http://photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=1093814
6 shots from my recent atv trip and fall colour shots. I will do a
gallery but its big. This is for Cotty.:=_
Dave
X30 rendering in LR 4.1
--
Documenting Life in Rural Ontario.
www.caughtinmotion.com
http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/
York
On 10/17/2016 10:42 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote:
Moon pics are too easily executed to count as good photos, but
they’re also a lot of fun. A day late on this one, as the moon is now
waning, but we were socked in yesterday. What’s more, I was watching
football and was undoubtedly overserved. But we g
I snagged a remarkable piece of Pentax glass (according to reviewers:
http://www.pentaxforums.com/lensreviews/Pentax-Rear-Teleconverter-A-1.4x-L.html
),
the Rear Converter A 1.4X-L with original box and case. This teleconverter
is said to work with these lenses:
- SMC Pentax-DA* 200mm F2.8
- SMC P
I have four iOS, one watchOS, and three macOS devices synced at present. No
problems.
G
> On Oct 18, 2016, at 4:32 AM, Paul Stenquist wrote:
>
> I have two OSX and one IOS device synced. OK so far.
>
> Paul via phone
>
>> On Oct 18, 2016, at 5:17 AM, Larry Colen wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Bruce
Hallo John!
Glad to hear you're having a good time in the USA … Ah, pizza in New York is
always so good. Same for pastrami and Reuben sandwiches.. :-)
Keep me informed on your return to the West. Might be useful to ping me with
txt or direct email as well a day or two beforehand so I can plan.
Wonderful colors Dave!
On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 8:32 AM, David J Brooks wrote:
> http://photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=1093814
>
> 6 shots from my recent atv trip and fall colour shots. I will do a
> gallery but its big. This is for Cotty.:=_
>
> Dave
>
> X30 rendering in LR 4.1
>
> --
> Docum
On 17/10/16, John, discombobulated, unleashed:
>Still, Cool beans!
Thanks for sharing John, would love to see something like that. It's a
source of regret that I never got to see a shuttle launch, but in a few
years I hope to be able to come over to see a launch of something, maybe
even the Mars
On 18/10/16, David J Brooks, discombobulated, unleashed:
>http://photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=1093814
>
>6 shots from my recent atv trip and fall colour shots. I will do a
>gallery but its big. This is for Cotty.:=_
Then I guess I better have a look!
Really amazing colour - 989 and 992 do
I have a 3 sponges, a bucket, a small bowl, two tubs and a pond. All
sink okay.
--
Cheers,
Cotty
___/\__Broadcast, Corporate,
|| (O) |Web Video Production
--
_
--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listi
On 17/10/16, Igor PDML-StR, discombobulated, unleashed:
>
>
>http://42graphy.org/misc/Colorful_IR34606.jpg
>
>I like the juxtaposition, but I am biased on several levels.
>I am curious if this photo works for others.
>
>All comments and critique are welcome!
Big yes, works well for me. Like it!
> On Oct 18, 2016, at 10:39 AM, Steve Cottrell wrote:
>
> I have a 3 sponges, a bucket, a small bowl, two tubs and a pond. All
> sink okay.
>
>
> --
>
>
> Cheers,
> Cotty
As long as you don’t sink the boat, it is all good…
stan
--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdm
All nice, Dave!
Especially like the content and composition of 882!
J
- Original Message -
From: "Steve Cottrell"
To: "pentax list"
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2016 7:36:23 AM
Subject: Re: fall
On 18/10/16, David J Brooks, discombobulated, unleashed:
>http://photo.net/photodb/folder?f
Dave, I'm running 10.11.6 El Capitan and Lr 4.4 works perfectly on it.
As does Photoshop CS5.
On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 8:01 AM, David J Brooks wrote:
> Bruce, i use LR 4.1 with the 4.4 upgrade stored on my computer. Do i
> take it if i upgrade to 4.4 it should be ok using El Captain.??
>
> I know
Thanks for that info, Dave. I was afraid of something like the Java
installer becoming a problem.
I've been teetering on the brink of getting CC for a year now, but I
may continue holding out for a while more. Sierra is the very first
Mac OS X version that completely disinterests me, and if I simp
Lovely!
- Marco
> On Oct 18, 2016, at 6:32 AM, David J Brooks wrote:
>
> http://photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=1093814
>
> 6 shots from my recent atv trip and fall colour shots. I will do a
> gallery but its big. This is for Cotty.:=_
>
> Dave
>
> X30 rendering in LR 4.1
>
> --
> Docum
I'm not "feature driven" either; I hardly use any of that stuff either
(although I do use the macOS Messages app quite a bit).
Most of the work in Sierra is actually OS infrastructure that makes it perform
better on the same hardware I was running El Capitan on, from what I see and
what my use
> On Oct 18, 2016, at 7:56 AM, Stanley Halpin
> wrote:
>
> As long as you don’t sink the boat, it is all good…
Cotty's Last Words: 'Bail, dammit! Bail!'
G
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to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit t
David J Brooks wrote:
http://photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=1093814
0900 for me.
Malcolm
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the directions.
On October 17, 2016 12:24:51 PM PDT, John wrote:
>Shoot off an email to their tech support and ask if they're working on
>a
>Mac version of the firmware updater for Pentax K-1.
I did. They told munge to find someone with a windows computer.
>
>If not, find someone who has a windoze computer y
On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 12:04 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:
>
> Most of the work in Sierra is actually OS infrastructure that makes it
> perform better on the same hardware I was running El Capitan on, from what I
> see and what my use of it shows. That's what makes it worth more to me.
Now _that
Malcolm,
That's a great photo!
My first thought when I saw the message subject was it was not literal.
As far as I heard, in Chinese folklore, a fox is a magic creature that
visits to test a person. If the person does well, the fox rewards one.
Otherwise the tested person can be punished even
http://www.caughtinmotion.com/2016-fall-1/album/index.html
Dave
--
Documenting Life in Rural Ontario.
www.caughtinmotion.com
http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/
York Region, Ontario, Canada
--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNS
http://www.alpert.com/marco/photo16/peso22.html
Comments, as always, welcomed.
-Marco
---
http://www.alpert.com/marco
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to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above an
Wait, everyone thinks I’m ninety?
m
> On Oct 15, 2016, at 11:31 PM, Bob W-PDML wrote:
>
> Nice shot! I always imagined Marco to be of a different generation.
>
> B
>
>> On 16 Oct 2016, at 03:46, ann sanfedele wrote:
>>
>> Hungry Pentaxians about to chow down at Angelina's on Ave A.
>>
>> h
A wonderful few hours, totally apart from the hearty lunch. Great to meet Ann,
John, and Jan in person and to discuss the coming apocalypse.
Thanks to Ann (and Ashley) for hosting. Hoping to see John and Jan again at the
SF meet up in a few weeks.
- Marco
> On Oct 15, 2016, at 7:45 PM, ann san
On Oct 15, 2016, at 8:29 PM, Larry Colen wrote:
>
> John and Jan are going to suspect that no matter where they go in the US
> they'll meet someone from Santa Cruz.
They will.
m
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to UNSUBSCRIBE from
Marco Alpert wrote:
http://www.alpert.com/marco/photo16/peso22.html
Monochrome works well here, strong image.
Malcolm
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to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow
th
David J Brooks wrote:
http://www.caughtinmotion.com/2016-fall-1/album/index.html
Great gallery.
Malcolm
--
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to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow
the directions.
Igor wrote:
Malcolm,
That's a great photo!
My first thought when I saw the message subject was it was not literal.
As far as I heard, in Chinese folklore, a fox is a magic creature that
visits to test a person. If the person does well, the fox rewards one.
Otherwise the tested person can be pun
David,
I believe photography was just the icing on the cake;
being there alone must have been a most pleasant experience itself.
Thanks for the feel.
Bulent
-
http://patoloji.gen.tr
http://celasun.wordpress.com/
http://www.flic
> On Oct 18, 2016, at 10:00 AM, Bruce Walker wrote:
>
> Now _that_ would be worth the upgrade to me. You'd think the marketing
> folks would have emphasized that as a bullet point, but I guess it's
> not sexy enough.
What sells units is features, unfortunately. Runs counter to my intuition and
I now know that you are beyond the reach of time's cold grasp and have drunk
from the source of eternal youth.
B
> On 18 Oct 2016, at 19:10, Marco Alpert wrote:
>
> Wait, everyone thinks I’m ninety?
>
> m
>
>> On Oct 15, 2016, at 11:31 PM, Bob W-PDML wrote:
>>
>> Nice shot! I always imagin
He thought you were a millenial... now do you feelbetter? or worse?
ann
On 10/18/2016 2:09 PM, Marco Alpert wrote:
Wait, everyone thinks I’m ninety?
m
On Oct 15, 2016, at 11:31 PM, Bob W-PDML wrote:
Nice shot! I always imagined Marco to be of a different generation.
B
On 16 Oct 2016, a
I see you've gotten to the NY shots...
I like the three figures going from sharp, to slightly blurred, to ghost
ann
On 10/18/2016 1:58 PM, Marco Alpert wrote:
http://www.alpert.com/marco/photo16/peso22.html
Comments, as always, welcomed.
-Marco
---
http://www.alpert.com/marco
Makes me want to be there...
ann
On 10/18/2016 11:57 AM, Marco Alpert wrote:
Lovely!
- Marco
On Oct 18, 2016, at 6:32 AM, David J Brooks wrote:
http://photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=1093814
6 shots from my recent atv trip and fall colour shots. I will do a
gallery but its big. This i
Just picked up my "new" SMC P F 70-210mm, in KEH.com bargain condition,
and it's classic KEH bargain. The only difference I can see between it
and amywhere else' LN condition is it came without caps. Focuses and
zooms smoothly, and I'm going out to test it out on foliage. Maybe this
afternoo
He should feel infinitely worse...
On 10/18/2016 3:30 PM, ann sanfedele wrote:
He thought you were a millenial... now do you feelbetter? or worse?
ann
On 10/18/2016 2:09 PM, Marco Alpert wrote:
Wait, everyone thinks I’m ninety?
m
On Oct 15, 2016, at 11:31 PM, Bob W-PDML wrote:
Nice shot
Ghostly figure at the right makes the image.
Very nice, Malcolm!
J
- Original Message -
From: "Malcolm Smith"
To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List"
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2016 11:33:43 AM
Subject: RE: PESO - The Night Market
Marco Alpert wrote:
http://www.alpert.com/marco/photo16/peso22
On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 3:29 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:
>> On Oct 18, 2016, at 10:00 AM, Bruce Walker wrote:
>>
>> (Doing anything creative using a touchscreen is like trying to set a
>> dining table for eight wearing boxing gloves. You might think you are
>> starting to do okay until you get to
Tang™.
m
> On Oct 18, 2016, at 12:29 PM, Bob W-PDML wrote:
>
> I now know that you are beyond the reach of time's cold grasp and have drunk
> from the source of eternal youth.
>
> B
>
>> On 18 Oct 2016, at 19:10, Marco Alpert wrote:
>>
>> Wait, everyone thinks I’m ninety?
>>
>> m
>>
>>>
Jack - Marco took the photo - Malcom gave it a "like" :-)
ann
On 10/18/2016 3:49 PM, Jack Davis wrote:
Ghostly figure at the right makes the image.
Very nice, Malcolm!
J
- Original Message -
From: "Malcolm Smith"
To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List"
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2016 11:33
On 18/10/16, Godfrey DiGiorgi, discombobulated, unleashed:
>Cotty's Last Words: 'Bail, dammit! Bail!'
Hahaha :-)
--
Cheers,
Cotty
___/\__Broadcast, Corporate,
|| (O) |Web Video Production
--
_
--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml
On 18/10/16, David J Brooks, discombobulated, unleashed:
>http://www.caughtinmotion.com/2016-fall-1/album/index.html
Holy Mary Mother of God.
875 for me.
What's with all the shithouses
--
Cheers,
Cotty
___/\__Broadcast, Corporate,
|| (O) |Web Video Production
--
Hmm. Your experience is nothing like mine. What system are you using?
For me (and I only use Apple equipment so I have no idea how Android or other
touch devices respond), the iPad Pro in particular is every bit as responsive
as any mouse and/or trackpad desktop computer. As a matter of fact, i
Yeah, was afraid that was the case
after it was sent.
Thanks, Ann!
Nice one Marco!
J
Sent from my iPhone
> On Oct 18, 2016, at 2:09 PM, ann sanfedele wrote:
>
> Jack - Marco took the photo - Malcom gave it a "like" :-)
>
> ann
>
>
>> On 10/18/2016 3:49 PM, Jack Davis wrote:
>> Ghostly fig
Pleasing image and well executed.
Dan Matyola
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola
On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 10:42 PM, Paul Stenquist
wrote:
> Moon pics are too easily executed to count as good photos, but they’re
> also a lot of fun. A day late on this one, as the moon is now waning,
I was thinking of using this for the November PUG but decided I'd rather
use something local. I always liked the colour version in the late
afternoon light but wondered about a black and white version.
So, here's the black & white version:
http://lyons-ryan.org/PESO/slides/_IGP1804-K5-1-peso.html
On 18 Oct 2016, at 22:28, Steve Cottrell wrote:
>
> On 18/10/16, David J Brooks, discombobulated, unleashed:
>
>> http://www.caughtinmotion.com/2016-fall-1/album/index.html
>
>
> Holy Mary Mother of God.
>
> 875 for me.
>
> What's with all the shithouses
Mark!
They're for the bears.
B
Not surprisingly, B&W for me. Beautiful photo.
Marco
> On Oct 18, 2016, at 3:04 PM, Brian Walters wrote:
>
> I was thinking of using this for the November PUG but decided I'd rather
> use something local. I always liked the colour version in the late
> afternoon light but wondered about a black
I had lots of choices from that part of the country, but I decided on
something very local for mine - embarrassingly easy in NYC
I love this shot of yours.. and the place. Unusual to see a photo with
only one mitten. Looks like West Mitten..
The tree is, I believe, a Utah Juniper... looks li
I was certain I was going to
prefer the B&W, but I wasn't
prepared for the late afternoon
light.
I like the one I'm looking at the
best. :)
J
Sent from my iPhone
> On Oct 18, 2016, at 3:28 PM, ann sanfedele wrote:
>
> I had lots of choices from that part of the country, but I decided on
> so
Strong and effective portrayal of an iconic site.
Dan Matyola
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola
On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 6:04 PM, Brian Walters
wrote:
> I was thinking of using this for the November PUG but decided I'd rather
> use something local. I always liked the colour versi
On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 5:26 PM, Steve Cottrell wrote:
> On 18/10/16, David J Brooks, discombobulated, unleashed:
>
>>http://www.caughtinmotion.com/2016-fall-1/album/index.html
>
>
> Holy Mary Mother of God.
>
> 875 for me.
>
> What's with all the shithouses
Future calendar
Dave
>
> --
>
>
>
On 10/18/2016 4:04 PM, Brian Walters wrote:
I was thinking of using this for the November PUG but decided I'd rather
use something local. I always liked the colour version in the late
afternoon light but wondered about a black and white version.
So, here's the black & white version:
http://lyon
We had a particularly pretty orb spider in the front yard. This one was
a lot redder/oranger than most of ours, unfortunately the color doesn't
really come through, I forgot to shoot a grey card.
Both shots done with available light, K-1 and Tamron 90/2.8 macro
https://www.flickr.com/photos/el
On Wed, Oct 19, 2016, at 11:11 AM, Bill wrote:
> On 10/18/2016 4:04 PM, Brian Walters wrote:
> > I was thinking of using this for the November PUG but decided I'd rather
> > use something local. I always liked the colour version in the late
> > afternoon light but wondered about a black and white v
On Wed, Oct 19, 2016, at 09:16 AM, Marco Alpert wrote:
> Not surprisingly, B&W for me. Beautiful photo.
Thanks. I'm sort of leaning the same way.
Cheers
Brian
++
Brian Walters
Western Sydney Australia
http://lyons-ryan.org/southernlight/
>
> > On Oct 18, 20
I like the BW. The color version feels a bit oversaturated. Great shot!
Paul via phone
> On Oct 18, 2016, at 8:11 PM, Bill wrote:
>
>> On 10/18/2016 4:04 PM, Brian Walters wrote:
>> I was thinking of using this for the November PUG but decided I'd rather
>> use something local. I always liked t
On Wed, Oct 19, 2016, at 09:28 AM, ann sanfedele wrote:
> I had lots of choices from that part of the country, but I decided on
> something very local for mine - embarrassingly easy in NYC
>
> I love this shot of yours.. and the place. Unusual to see a photo with
> only one mitten. Looks like W
Thanks Dan. I replaced the original with a different frame that was exposed at
a lower ISO and with a bigger ap. Finally had time to sort through the shots.
Paul via phone
> On Oct 18, 2016, at 5:48 PM, Daniel J. Matyola wrote:
>
> Pleasing image and well executed.
>
> Dan Matyola
> http://w
Thanks for looking, Jack & Dan. Much appreciated.
Cheers
Brian
++
Brian Walters
Western Sydney Australia
http://lyons-ryan.org/southernlight/
On Wed, Oct 19, 2016, at 09:39 AM, Jack Davis wrote:
> I was certain I was going to
> prefer the B&W, but I wasn't
>
Nice level of detail in each image. I think the colors are quite nice and
natural.
Dan Matyola
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola
On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 8:20 PM, Larry Colen wrote:
> We had a particularly pretty orb spider in the front yard. This one was a
> lot redder/oranger
On Wed, Oct 19, 2016, at 11:24 AM, Paul Stenquist wrote:
> I like the BW. The color version feels a bit oversaturated. Great shot!
Yes - my feeling too, even though the colour version has only had a
slight levels adjustment. The light was wonderful.
Cheers
Brian
+
Daniel J. Matyola wrote:
Nice level of detail in each image. I think the colors are quite nice and
natural.
Thanks Dan. It looks very much like most of the ones around here do, so
maybe my eyes were fooled by the light or something.
Dan Matyola
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danielj
On Wed, Oct 19, 2016, at 11:20 AM, Larry Colen wrote:
> We had a particularly pretty orb spider in the front yard. This one was
> a lot redder/oranger than most of ours, unfortunately the color doesn't
> really come through, I forgot to shoot a grey card.
>
> Both shots done with available light
Brian Walters wrote:
On Wed, Oct 19, 2016, at 11:20 AM, Larry Colen wrote:
We had a particularly pretty orb spider in the front yard. This one was
a lot redder/oranger than most of ours, unfortunately the color doesn't
really come through, I forgot to shoot a grey card.
Both shots done with a
Brian Walters wrote:
I was thinking of using this for the November PUG but decided I'd rather
use something local. I always liked the colour version in the late
afternoon light but wondered about a black and white version.
So, here's the black& white version:
http://lyons-ryan.org/PESO/slide
Jack Davis wrote:
Ghostly figure at the right makes the image.
Very nice, Malcolm!
I'm going to be the troublesome one and disagree. I don't like this one
nearly as much as most of Marco's work, and thing that it could be
improved a bit by keeping the same aspect ratio and cropping the rig
On 10/18/2016 8:20 PM, Larry Colen wrote:
We had a particularly pretty orb spider in the front yard. This one was
a lot redder/oranger than most of ours, unfortunately the color doesn't
really come through, I forgot to shoot a grey card.
Both shots done with available light, K-1 and Tamron 90/2.
Bill, I was thinking of writing you and suggesting you use your photo
for the next pug... I remember it very well - since Brian is using
somethingelse. DO IT.
Brian and all, I stayed a couple of nights Chez Robb in 2005 and
remember the gorgeous BW print - yes, quite similar from point of view
I haven't seen foxes here, but our diggers are armadillos.
I am too lazy to get outside at wee hours to see them.
And there are might be someone else who keeps re-digging the same hole in
front of the house. (I've sort of given up on closing it back every time.)
Other large-scale pests in our ya
I have the 1.4x-L and it works great - I mostly use it with the A* 200
f4 macro, though I originally bought the TC for use with my A* 400 f2.8.
I did not like the 2x-L so much and sold it - it was sharp but bokeh on
the 400mm was weird.
The Pz-1p sounds like a nice find - I used mine for a cou
First shot is the excellent. Good looking spider.
Paul via phone
> On Oct 18, 2016, at 8:32 PM, Larry Colen wrote:
>
>
>
> Daniel J. Matyola wrote:
>> Nice level of detail in each image. I think the colors are quite nice and
>> natural.
>
> Thanks Dan. It looks very much like most of the one
Agreed. http://xkcd.com/1747/
m
> On Oct 18, 2016, at 7:51 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote:
>
> First shot is the excellent. Good looking spider.
>
> Paul via phone
>
>> On Oct 18, 2016, at 8:32 PM, Larry Colen wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Daniel J. Matyola wrote:
>>> Nice level of detail in each image. I
Love it but it does look quite dark on my screen, in a bright room with the
late afternoon sun streaming in through the window.
Cheers,
Dave
> On Oct 19, 2016, at 11:04 AM, Brian Walters wrote:
>
> I was thinking of using this for the November PUG but decided I'd rather
> use something local.
The color is very nice, but the b/w is stunning. Would look great
printed on a pearl metallic paper.
-p
On 10/18/2016 5:04 PM, Brian Walters wrote:
I was thinking of using this for the November PUG but decided I'd rather
use something local. I always liked the colour version in the late
afte
I do a lot of my photography in really low light. The 2/3 stop between
f/1.8 and f/1.4 doesn't seem like much, but when you're talking the
difference between 1/13 and 1/20 Second, it can be a huge difference.
Similarly, doing night landscapes, the 2/3 stop can be a big deal with
star motion in
Larry Colen wrote:
We had a particularly pretty orb spider in the front yard. This one was a
lot redder/oranger than most of ours, unfortunately the color doesn't really
come through, I forgot to shoot a grey card.
Both shots done with available light, K-1 and Tamron 90/2.8 macro
https://www.fli
Brian Walters wrote:
I was thinking of using this for the November PUG but decided I'd rather use
something local. I always liked the colour version in the late afternoon
light but wondered about a black and white version.
So, here's the black & white version:
http://lyons-ryan.org/PESO/slides/_
Igor wrote:
I haven't seen foxes here, but our diggers are armadillos.
I am too lazy to get outside at wee hours to see them.
And there are might be someone else who keeps re-digging the same hole in
front of the house. (I've sort of given up on closing it back every time.)
Other large-scale pests
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