Re: [PEDA] [PROTEL EDA USERS]: Inner Power Plane clearances ISO
Micky, something that may help in the future if you don't already do it. I include a text readme file with all outgoing jobs, first item at the top of the file is the design contact, telephone numbers and email address. If a fabricator misses that then it's time for a new fabricator, lord knows what else they may miss. In your case it could have possibly given your company recourse for the expense of the boards. It also would have given you recourse to let most of the heat be deflected by some asbestos underwear. Sincerely, Brad Velander Lead PCB Design Norsat International Inc. #100 - 4401 Still Creek Dr., Burnaby, B.C., Canada. V5C6G9. voice: (604) 292-9089 (direct line) fax:(604) 292-9010 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: www.norsat.com -Original Message- From: TSListServer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Micky Blain Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 11:26 AM To: Multiple recipients of list proteledausers Subject: RE: [PROTEL EDA USERS]: Inner Power Plane clearances ISO No problem with the "rookie" I was just a little less talerent becasue it cost the company 25,000 and the guy that made the deceition didn't take the blame. It hit me full force. I to was wondering why they didn't contact me. They had made contact with a guy in another state! Oh well this was one for the books! Micky * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To join or leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/subscrib.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] [PROTEL EDA USERS]: Inner Power Plane clearances ISO
At 06:18 PM 2/13/01 -0600, Jon Elson wrote: >Abd ul-Rahman Lomax wrote: > > > At 10:46 AM 2/13/01 -0800, Dennis Saputelli wrote: > > > > >on the other side I once had a shop put a board on hold for a week > > >because the fab print said 8.000" but they said the board Gerbers > > >measured 7.999" > > Especially since it is reasonably unlikely that they could measure the > > Gerbers with that accuracy. >No, they can measure the RS-274 data that CREATES the gerber >photoplots to rediculous accuracy, .1" at least. Depending on >the photoplotter actually used, they might get pretty close to that level, >too! > >Jon Yes, the *data* can be measured with *perfect* accuracy. But unless you are paying very big bucks, the resolution of that plotter (pixel size, I think) is not going to be better than .25 mil. However, I would prefer to call what one would derive from the Gerber a "calculated" distance, and use "measure" for measurement using physical tools on the film. I'd be very surprised to find that they could measure eight inches to a true 1 mil accuracy. Remember, also, that the film expansion and contraction with varied temperature, assuming it isn't glass, is also going to swamp this number; and I'd, again, be surprised if the absolute positional accuracy of the plotter was in the mil range. The *resolution* may be higher (not necessarily, by the way, there are plenty of photoplotters with 1 mil resolution)m but not the accuracy. The board gerbers are not a definition of board outline, if they really wanted to be correct. The fab drawing is. There was no ambiguity, the dimension was fully specified as 8 inches. A board outline is only drawn as a convenience; if the deviation were large enough to raise suspicion of an error, then a prudent shop might well make a call. But not for 1 mil. As I said, sheesh [EMAIL PROTECTED] Abdulrahman Lomax P.O. Box 690 El Verano, CA 95433 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * This message sent by: PROTEL EDA USERS MAILING LIST * * Use the "reply" command in your email program to * respond to this message. * * To unsubscribe from this mailing list use the form at * the Association web site. You will need to give the same * email address you originally used to subscribe (do not * give an alias unless it was used to subscribe). * * Visit http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/subscrib.html * to unsubscribe or to subscribe a new email address. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To leave the EDAFORUM discussion list, send a email with 'leave edaforum' in the body to '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' More Information : http://www.dolist.net
Re: [PEDA] [PROTEL EDA USERS]: Inner Power Plane clearances ISO
Abd ul-Rahman Lomax wrote: > At 10:46 AM 2/13/01 -0800, Dennis Saputelli wrote: > > >on the other side I once had a shop put a board on hold for a week > >because the fab print said 8.000" but they said the board Gerbers > >measured 7.999" > >I pointed out that they have a 5 mil outside routing tolerance, but they > >responded that they were ISO-9000 and needed a written sign-off for the > >'deviation' > > Especially since it is reasonably unlikely that they could measure the > Gerbers with that accuracy. In any case, that was just "dumb," since no > deviation was required from either the Gerbers or the drawing and the > difference might have only been round-off error. Sheesh No, they can measure the RS-274 data that CREATES the gerber photoplots to rediculous accuracy, .1" at least. Depending on the photoplotter actually used, they might get pretty close to that level, too! Jon * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * This message sent by: PROTEL EDA USERS MAILING LIST * * Use the "reply" command in your email program to * respond to this message. * * To unsubscribe from this mailing list use the form at * the Association web site. You will need to give the same * email address you originally used to subscribe (do not * give an alias unless it was used to subscribe). * * Visit http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/subscrib.html * to unsubscribe or to subscribe a new email address. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To leave the EDAFORUM discussion list, send a email with 'leave edaforum' in the body to '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' More Information : http://www.dolist.net
Re: [PEDA] [PROTEL EDA USERS]: Inner Power Plane clearances
At 08:48 AM 2/13/01 -0600, Micky Blain wrote: >Sorry for the reply, I need to show more self control in this matter. > >You are 100% correct it is a rookie mistake! It certainly was. However, no criticism of persons was intended by Mr. Saputelli, I am sure. We've all been rookies at one time or another. I'm a perpetual rookie myself >In the Future Dennis, please restrain from categorizing the persons level of >experience in your replies. These type of statements may cause someone to be >reluctant to post their mistakes. I certainly hope not. However, Mr. Blain seems to have suffered from some hypersensitivity here. No categorization of Mr. Blain's level of experience was made by Mr. (Dennis) Saputelli. He wrote that the error was one that rookies make. Experts sometimes make rookie mistakes. He said nothing beyond that. Mr. Blain realized that he was in error to respond with such sarcasm, but he still attempts to justify it, and then he repeats it. Time for a break, or perhaps a vacation! Or at least, save an outgoing message that seems to have steam coming from it and re-read it a bit later before committing it to a worldwide audience. If one of us deserves a blast, little harm will be done by delaying it a few minutes or an hour. We all learn from each other's mistakes. However, perhaps Mr. Saputelli will note that, indeed, his choice of words might arouse tender sensitivities even without intent. Perhaps "dumb" mistake would have been better. :-) just kidding [EMAIL PROTECTED] Abdulrahman Lomax P.O. Box 690 El Verano, CA 95433 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * This message sent by: PROTEL EDA USERS MAILING LIST * * Use the "reply" command in your email program to * respond to this message. * * To unsubscribe from this mailing list use the form at * the Association web site. You will need to give the same * email address you originally used to subscribe (do not * give an alias unless it was used to subscribe). * * Visit http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/subscrib.html * to unsubscribe or to subscribe a new email address. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To leave the EDAFORUM discussion list, send a email with 'leave edaforum' in the body to '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' More Information : http://www.dolist.net
Re: [PEDA] [PROTEL EDA USERS]: Inner Power Plane clearances - underfingers?
we use a 50 mil track centered on the board outline, you can just clone the board outline to the plane layers and use a global to thicken them I think I recall hearing that 25 mils is a desirable amount for clearance to board edge. here's a question, what do you do with planes in the finger/ paddle area of a card edge? also what do you do about soldermask on fingers? if just do an expand it gets big on top, sometimes we just draw a huge trace across the whole thing here's anudder one: what do you do about plating bars for fingers, do you generally provide one in the design, or just let the fab shop worry about it? we generally supply one, but it's a large component and kind of a pain to move it on and off for DRCs and docs and such I just made up the dimensions of it and nobody has ever commented one way or the other, for all I know they cut the damn thing off and make their own. Dennis Saputelli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > I place a track (maybe 20 mil) on each power plane around the edge of the > outline > of the board to prevent the power planes from extending too far. > > ___ > > Clive Broome > IDT Sydney Design CentrePh: +61 2 9763 3513 > 8 Bayswater Dr, HomebushFax:+61 2 9763 3409 > Sydney, NSW, 2127 Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Australia > > Australia's Leading Semiconductor Designers > --- > > "Micky Blain" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on 02/13/2001 07:32:56 AM > > Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To: Multiple recipients of list proteledausers > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > cc:(bcc: Clive Broome/sdc) > > Subject: [PROTEL EDA USERS]: Inner Power Plane clearances > > 1. just go bit on a big order with power plane clearance. It seems that the > gerbers generates the plane all the way to the edge of the keep out layers. > Is there anyway to control the power plane and manually draw them in without > doing them by split planes? > > Micky Blain > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * > * This message sent by: PROTEL EDA USERS MAILING LIST > * > * Use the "reply" command in your email program to > * respond to this message. > * > * To unsubscribe from this mailing list use the form at > * the Association web site. You will need to give the same > * email address you originally used to subscribe (do not > * give an alias unless it was used to subscribe). > * > * Visit http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/subscrib.html > * to unsubscribe or to subscribe a new email address. > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * > * This message sent by: PROTEL EDA USERS MAILING LIST > * > * Use the "reply" command in your email program to > * respond to this message. > * > * To unsubscribe from this mailing list use the form at > * the Association web site. You will need to give the same > * email address you originally used to subscribe (do not > * give an alias unless it was used to subscribe). > * > * Visit http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/subscrib.html > * to unsubscribe or to subscribe a new email address. > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * -- ___ www.integratedcontrolsinc.comIntegrated Controls, Inc. tel: 415-647-04802851 21st Street fax: 415-647-3003San Francisco, CA 94110 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * This message sent by: PROTEL EDA USERS MAILING LIST * * Use the "reply" command in your email program to * respond to this message. * * To unsubscribe from this mailing list use the form at * the Association web site. You will need to give the same * email address you originally used to subscribe (do not * give an alias unless it was used to subscribe). * * Visit http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/subscrib.html * to unsubscribe or to subscribe a new email address. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To leave the EDAFORUM discussion list, send a email with 'leave edaforum' in the body to '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' More Information : http://www.dolist.net
Re: [PEDA] [PROTEL EDA USERS]: Inner Power Plane clearances ISO
At 10:46 AM 2/13/01 -0800, Dennis Saputelli wrote: >on the other side I once had a shop put a board on hold for a week >because the fab print said 8.000" but they said the board Gerbers >measured 7.999" >I pointed out that they have a 5 mil outside routing tolerance, but they >responded that they were ISO-9000 and needed a written sign-off for the >'deviation' Especially since it is reasonably unlikely that they could measure the Gerbers with that accuracy. In any case, that was just "dumb," since no deviation was required from either the Gerbers or the drawing and the difference might have only been round-off error. Sheesh [EMAIL PROTECTED] Abdulrahman Lomax P.O. Box 690 El Verano, CA 95433 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * This message sent by: PROTEL EDA USERS MAILING LIST * * Use the "reply" command in your email program to * respond to this message. * * To unsubscribe from this mailing list use the form at * the Association web site. You will need to give the same * email address you originally used to subscribe (do not * give an alias unless it was used to subscribe). * * Visit http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/subscrib.html * to unsubscribe or to subscribe a new email address. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To leave the EDAFORUM discussion list, send a email with 'leave edaforum' in the body to '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' More Information : http://www.dolist.net
Re: [PEDA] [PROTEL EDA USERS]: Inner Power Plane clearances ISO
No problem with the "rookie" I was just a little less talerent becasue it cost the company 25,000 and the guy that made the deceition didn't take the blame. It hit me full force. I to was wondering why they didn't contact me. They had made contact with a guy in another state! Oh well this was one for the books! Micky -Original Message- From: TSListServer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Dennis Saputelli Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 12:46 PM To: Multiple recipients of list proteledausers Subject: Re: [PROTEL EDA USERS]: Inner Power Plane clearances ISO hey, "rookie" isn't a pejorative, in sports they are the team's future I did not intend to insult or demean you, sorry if it came off that way besides, my main point as stated was that the board shop did not handle this situation well they should have advised you and/or fixed it properly, not increase the board size! I remember on one of my first double sided bds (pre-cad) I drove the tape up to the board shop and they asked me for the drill chart I asked them what that was and they said they wanted to know what sizes to drill the holes I told them "you know, resistors and ICs and stuff like that" they made the board fine by guessing from the pad sizes (since then I've become something of a hole size fanatic) on the other side I once had a shop put a board on hold for a week because the fab print said 8.000" but they said the board Gerbers measured 7.999" I pointed out that they have a 5 mil outside routing tolerance, but they responded that they were ISO-9000 and needed a written sign-off for the 'deviation' Unfortunately, I fear this is where we are headed, more nonsense and less service. Dennis Saputelli Micky Blain wrote: > > Sorry for the reply, I need to show more self control in this matter. > > You are 100% correct it is a rookie mistake! > > I have already read one person that checked their design. Because of the > willingness of an old dog to admit this ROOKIE mistake! So if that person > saved some money and time I can eat the ego trip! > > In the Future Dennis, please restrain from categorizing the persons level of > experience in your replies. These type of statements may cause someone to be > reluctant to post their mistakes. > > I was only trying to help other people take notice to my problem. The board > was fine it is a person that didn't consult us before they hand sanded all > board to bring them into spec. The board house increased the size to > accommodate the plane. I am working with a FAB that I was not at all > familiar with and hence the problem snow balled on me. > > I didn't get a chance to read all the biggest mistakes posted lately but I > am confident your never made one! > > this is a rookie mistake, BUT the board shop should have advised you > and/or just cut the plane back from the edges > this S.O.P. > > don't forget that the plane is a negative, wherever there is nothing > there is copper, you draw non-copper > so the clearance rule doesn't really apply unless you would have them > auotroute some primitives relative to the keep out, which of course > would probably make a mess > > Dennis Saputelli > -- ___ www.integratedcontrolsinc.comIntegrated Controls, Inc. tel: 415-647-04802851 21st Street fax: 415-647-3003San Francisco, CA 94110 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * This message sent by: PROTEL EDA USERS MAILING LIST * * Use the "reply" command in your email program to * respond to this message. * * To unsubscribe from this mailing list use the form at * the Association web site. You will need to give the same * email address you originally used to subscribe (do not * give an alias unless it was used to subscribe). * * Visit http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/subscrib.html * to unsubscribe or to subscribe a new email address. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * This message sent by: PROTEL EDA USERS MAILING LIST * * Use the "reply" command in your email program to * respond to this message. * * To unsubscribe from this mailing list use the form at * the Association web site. You will need to give the same * email address you originally used to subscribe (do not * give an alias unless it was used to subscribe). * * Visit http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/subscrib.html * to unsubscribe or to subscribe a new email address. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To leave the EDAFORUM discussion list, send a email with 'leave edaforum' in the body to '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' More Information : http://www.dolist.net
Re: [PEDA] [PROTEL EDA USERS]: Inner Power Plane clearances
Sorry for the reply, I need to show more self control in this matter. You are 100% correct it is a rookie mistake! I have already read one person that checked their design. Because of the willingness of an old dog to admit this ROOKIE mistake! So if that person saved some money and time I can eat the ego trip! In the Future Dennis, please restrain from categorizing the persons level of experience in your replies. These type of statements may cause someone to be reluctant to post their mistakes. I was only trying to help other people take notice to my problem. The board was fine it is a person that didn't consult us before they hand sanded all board to bring them into spec. The board house increased the size to accommodate the plane. I am working with a FAB that I was not at all familiar with and hence the problem snow balled on me. I didn't get a chance to read all the biggest mistakes posted lately but I am confident your never made one! -Original Message- From: TSListServer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Micky Blain Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 7:47 AM To: Multiple recipients of list proteledausers Subject: RE: [PROTEL EDA USERS]: Inner Power Plane clearances Thanks for qualifying my experience level for me, where are you located so I can turn my carpet your direction! -Original Message- From: TSListServer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Dennis Saputelli Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 9:20 PM To: Multiple recipients of list proteledausers Subject: Re: [PROTEL EDA USERS]: Inner Power Plane clearances this is a rookie mistake, BUT the board shop should have advised you and/or just cut the plane back from the edges this S.O.P. don't forget that the plane is a negative, wherever there is nothing there is copper, you draw non-copper so the clearance rule doesn't really apply unless you would have them auotroute some primitives relative to the keep out, which of course would probably make a mess Dennis Saputelli Micky Blain wrote: > > Do you connect them to the nets you are putting on the plane or just have > them around the parameter. This one cost me plenty! What happened it they > decided to trim them to spec and sanded the boards down where the plane is > exposed! Scrap 500 pieces and busted my confidence in the plane rule! Protel > have a Power Plane clearance rule but it doesn't adjust the distance from > keepout. That is what I need to do is make sure the plane is 20 mils from > the keepout. > > Thanks for your suggestion I and trying it as I type! > > -Original Message- > From: TSListServer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On > Behalf Of Rob Malos > Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 4:06 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list proteledausers > Subject: Re: [PROTEL EDA USERS]: Inner Power Plane clearances > > Micky, > I have always placed rectangular fills around the edges of my > boards > on the power planes. Protel will warn you that there are primitives on the > planes in the DRC. Check these are only the fills you intended then proceed > to > generate gerbers. I have to say that I would expect a good PCB manufacturer > to > ask if I intended the plane to 'hang out' the edge of the board or if I > wanted > it cut back. > > Regards, > > Rob Malos, > Cyborg Design. > -- ___ www.integratedcontrolsinc.comIntegrated Controls, Inc. tel: 415-647-04802851 21st Street fax: 415-647-3003San Francisco, CA 94110 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * This message sent by: PROTEL EDA USERS MAILING LIST * * Use the "reply" command in your email program to * respond to this message. * * To unsubscribe from this mailing list use the form at * the Association web site. You will need to give the same * email address you originally used to subscribe (do not * give an alias unless it was used to subscribe). * * Visit http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/subscrib.html * to unsubscribe or to subscribe a new email address. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * This message sent by: PROTEL EDA USERS MAILING LIST * * Use the "reply" command in your email program to * respond to this message. * * To unsubscribe from this mailing list use the form at * the Association web site. You will need to give the same * email address you originally used to subscribe (do not * give an alias unless it was used to subscribe). * * Visit http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/subscrib.html * to unsubscribe or to subscribe a new email address. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * This message sent by: PROTEL EDA USERS MAILING LIST * * Use the "reply" command in your email program to * respond to this message. * * To u
Re: [PEDA] [PROTEL EDA USERS]: Inner Power Plane clearances
Thanks for qualifying my experience level for me, where are you located so I can turn my carpet your direction! -Original Message- From: TSListServer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Dennis Saputelli Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 9:20 PM To: Multiple recipients of list proteledausers Subject: Re: [PROTEL EDA USERS]: Inner Power Plane clearances this is a rookie mistake, BUT the board shop should have advised you and/or just cut the plane back from the edges this S.O.P. don't forget that the plane is a negative, wherever there is nothing there is copper, you draw non-copper so the clearance rule doesn't really apply unless you would have them auotroute some primitives relative to the keep out, which of course would probably make a mess Dennis Saputelli Micky Blain wrote: > > Do you connect them to the nets you are putting on the plane or just have > them around the parameter. This one cost me plenty! What happened it they > decided to trim them to spec and sanded the boards down where the plane is > exposed! Scrap 500 pieces and busted my confidence in the plane rule! Protel > have a Power Plane clearance rule but it doesn't adjust the distance from > keepout. That is what I need to do is make sure the plane is 20 mils from > the keepout. > > Thanks for your suggestion I and trying it as I type! > > -Original Message- > From: TSListServer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On > Behalf Of Rob Malos > Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 4:06 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list proteledausers > Subject: Re: [PROTEL EDA USERS]: Inner Power Plane clearances > > Micky, > I have always placed rectangular fills around the edges of my > boards > on the power planes. Protel will warn you that there are primitives on the > planes in the DRC. Check these are only the fills you intended then proceed > to > generate gerbers. I have to say that I would expect a good PCB manufacturer > to > ask if I intended the plane to 'hang out' the edge of the board or if I > wanted > it cut back. > > Regards, > > Rob Malos, > Cyborg Design. > -- ___ www.integratedcontrolsinc.comIntegrated Controls, Inc. tel: 415-647-04802851 21st Street fax: 415-647-3003San Francisco, CA 94110 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * This message sent by: PROTEL EDA USERS MAILING LIST * * Use the "reply" command in your email program to * respond to this message. * * To unsubscribe from this mailing list use the form at * the Association web site. You will need to give the same * email address you originally used to subscribe (do not * give an alias unless it was used to subscribe). * * Visit http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/subscrib.html * to unsubscribe or to subscribe a new email address. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * This message sent by: PROTEL EDA USERS MAILING LIST * * Use the "reply" command in your email program to * respond to this message. * * To unsubscribe from this mailing list use the form at * the Association web site. You will need to give the same * email address you originally used to subscribe (do not * give an alias unless it was used to subscribe). * * Visit http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/subscrib.html * to unsubscribe or to subscribe a new email address. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To leave the EDAFORUM discussion list, send a email with 'leave edaforum' in the body to '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' More Information : http://www.dolist.net
Re: [PEDA] [PROTEL EDA USERS]: Inner Power Plane clearances ISO
hey, "rookie" isn't a pejorative, in sports they are the team's future I did not intend to insult or demean you, sorry if it came off that way besides, my main point as stated was that the board shop did not handle this situation well they should have advised you and/or fixed it properly, not increase the board size! I remember on one of my first double sided bds (pre-cad) I drove the tape up to the board shop and they asked me for the drill chart I asked them what that was and they said they wanted to know what sizes to drill the holes I told them "you know, resistors and ICs and stuff like that" they made the board fine by guessing from the pad sizes (since then I've become something of a hole size fanatic) on the other side I once had a shop put a board on hold for a week because the fab print said 8.000" but they said the board Gerbers measured 7.999" I pointed out that they have a 5 mil outside routing tolerance, but they responded that they were ISO-9000 and needed a written sign-off for the 'deviation' Unfortunately, I fear this is where we are headed, more nonsense and less service. Dennis Saputelli Micky Blain wrote: > > Sorry for the reply, I need to show more self control in this matter. > > You are 100% correct it is a rookie mistake! > > I have already read one person that checked their design. Because of the > willingness of an old dog to admit this ROOKIE mistake! So if that person > saved some money and time I can eat the ego trip! > > In the Future Dennis, please restrain from categorizing the persons level of > experience in your replies. These type of statements may cause someone to be > reluctant to post their mistakes. > > I was only trying to help other people take notice to my problem. The board > was fine it is a person that didn't consult us before they hand sanded all > board to bring them into spec. The board house increased the size to > accommodate the plane. I am working with a FAB that I was not at all > familiar with and hence the problem snow balled on me. > > I didn't get a chance to read all the biggest mistakes posted lately but I > am confident your never made one! > > this is a rookie mistake, BUT the board shop should have advised you > and/or just cut the plane back from the edges > this S.O.P. > > don't forget that the plane is a negative, wherever there is nothing > there is copper, you draw non-copper > so the clearance rule doesn't really apply unless you would have them > auotroute some primitives relative to the keep out, which of course > would probably make a mess > > Dennis Saputelli > -- ___ www.integratedcontrolsinc.comIntegrated Controls, Inc. tel: 415-647-04802851 21st Street fax: 415-647-3003San Francisco, CA 94110 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * This message sent by: PROTEL EDA USERS MAILING LIST * * Use the "reply" command in your email program to * respond to this message. * * To unsubscribe from this mailing list use the form at * the Association web site. You will need to give the same * email address you originally used to subscribe (do not * give an alias unless it was used to subscribe). * * Visit http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/subscrib.html * to unsubscribe or to subscribe a new email address. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To leave the EDAFORUM discussion list, send a email with 'leave edaforum' in the body to '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' More Information : http://www.dolist.net
Re: [PEDA] [PROTEL EDA USERS]: Inner Power Plane clearances
I like the idea about the vacation, could I forward that ot my boss? With 80+ hours a week the norm here I could use a week off! -Original Message- From: TSListServer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Abd ul-Rahman Lomax Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 3:16 PM To: Multiple recipients of list proteledausers Subject: RE: [PROTEL EDA USERS]: Inner Power Plane clearances At 08:48 AM 2/13/01 -0600, Micky Blain wrote: >Sorry for the reply, I need to show more self control in this matter. > >You are 100% correct it is a rookie mistake! It certainly was. However, no criticism of persons was intended by Mr. Saputelli, I am sure. We've all been rookies at one time or another. I'm a perpetual rookie myself >In the Future Dennis, please restrain from categorizing the persons level of >experience in your replies. These type of statements may cause someone to be >reluctant to post their mistakes. I certainly hope not. However, Mr. Blain seems to have suffered from some hypersensitivity here. No categorization of Mr. Blain's level of experience was made by Mr. (Dennis) Saputelli. He wrote that the error was one that rookies make. Experts sometimes make rookie mistakes. He said nothing beyond that. Mr. Blain realized that he was in error to respond with such sarcasm, but he still attempts to justify it, and then he repeats it. Time for a break, or perhaps a vacation! Or at least, save an outgoing message that seems to have steam coming from it and re-read it a bit later before committing it to a worldwide audience. If one of us deserves a blast, little harm will be done by delaying it a few minutes or an hour. We all learn from each other's mistakes. However, perhaps Mr. Saputelli will note that, indeed, his choice of words might arouse tender sensitivities even without intent. Perhaps "dumb" mistake would have been better. :-) just kidding [EMAIL PROTECTED] Abdulrahman Lomax P.O. Box 690 El Verano, CA 95433 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * This message sent by: PROTEL EDA USERS MAILING LIST * * Use the "reply" command in your email program to * respond to this message. * * To unsubscribe from this mailing list use the form at * the Association web site. You will need to give the same * email address you originally used to subscribe (do not * give an alias unless it was used to subscribe). * * Visit http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/subscrib.html * to unsubscribe or to subscribe a new email address. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * This message sent by: PROTEL EDA USERS MAILING LIST * * Use the "reply" command in your email program to * respond to this message. * * To unsubscribe from this mailing list use the form at * the Association web site. You will need to give the same * email address you originally used to subscribe (do not * give an alias unless it was used to subscribe). * * Visit http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/subscrib.html * to unsubscribe or to subscribe a new email address. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To leave the EDAFORUM discussion list, send a email with 'leave edaforum' in the body to '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' More Information : http://www.dolist.net
Re: [PEDA] [PROTEL EDA USERS]: Inner Power Plane clearances
Re: [PEDA] [PROTEL EDA USERS]: Inner Power Plane clearances
> An important point here, that I just now realized: keepouts have NO EFFECT on planes! Whether it's a keepout at the board edge, or > around a mounting hole, the gerbers do NOT get negative-copper in those areas. Which is why everyone has to run these tracks around > the edges. > > I only recently did my first board with planes. After reading your post I went and examined my gerbers and the boards in more > detail. I was lucky -- the fab house "automatically" kept the planes back from the board edge by about 30mils without asking. (The > planes extend a bit beyond my keepout lines, but shouldn't cause any grief.) > > It'd be nice if the PCB-wizard took care of this for us! > > Dwight Harm I suggest that you post a message with a Subject of (Re:) Suggestions for improving Protel... , and in the contents, suggest that the Pcb Wizard be enhanced in the manner suggested. That way, what you are requesting will be specifically identified as another aspect where Protel could be improved. I have some other aspects that I want to append to that thread myself (though in some cases I still have to check whether they actually have been provided in SP6)... Regards, Geoff Harland. - E-Mail Disclaimer The Information in this e-mail is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this e-mail by anyone else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. Any opinions or advice contained in this e-mail are confidential and not for public display. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * This message sent by: PROTEL EDA USERS MAILING LIST * * Use the "reply" command in your email program to * respond to this message. * * To unsubscribe from this mailing list use the form at * the Association web site. You will need to give the same * email address you originally used to subscribe (do not * give an alias unless it was used to subscribe). * * Visit http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/subscrib.html * to unsubscribe or to subscribe a new email address. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To leave the EDAFORUM discussion list, send a email with 'leave edaforum' in the body to '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' More Information : http://www.dolist.net
Re: [PEDA] [PROTEL EDA USERS]: Inner Power Plane clearances
At 03:32 PM 2/12/01 -0600, Micky Blain wrote:
>1. just go bit on a big order with power plane clearance. It seems that the
>gerbers generates the plane all the way to the edge of the keep out layers.
>Is there anyway to control the power plane and manually draw them in without
>doing them by split planes?
This question reveals a bit of misapprehension about how inner planes are
created. The plane is not "generated." It exists before you and I were
born. Sorry, I'm getting a little metaphysical there The plane is
nothing other than the unexposed film. What is generated is anti-copper.
Which is why inner planes are negative plots.
Protel does not really know anything about copper on inner planes. What it
knows is only what rules there are for pads as to air gap or thermal
relief, and it knows whether or not a pad is within any split plane areas.
DRC does not check for actual connectivity on an inner plane. If there are
no splits, DRC *assumes* connectivity between any pads anywhere, even if
the pad is floating outside the workspace, I think. If you have an isolated
pad because the blowouts from other pads surround it, the only way to find
this is to visually inspect it. Or use Wolfgang's tool (Router Solutions,
www.rsi-inc.com), which will check negative planes. It is not a trivial
problem, though it is not as difficult as writing a good autorouter. But we
all know how easy that is!
Here we see the flip side of that. The inner planes know nothing about the
board edge.
Inner planes are plotted in the negative. Pads which are to be unconnected
to the plane are simply plotted oversize by the radial clearance specified
in the design rules. Pads which are to connect are either not plotted at
all ("direct connect") or are plotted by drawing lines or arcs to form
thermal reliefs.
It gets slightly more complicated if there are split planes; essentially
the program must determine what split plane polygon the pad is inside, and
then it plots it connected if it is inside a plane with the same net
assignment as the pad, and it plots it unconnected otherwise. If it is
inside no plane, its net assignment is compared to the default assignment
for the layer
The keepout lines that make up a board outline have no special
significance, other than clearance to primitives. The plane itself is not a
primitive.
So, to keep copper from the board edge on the inner planes, which is not a
bad idea :-), one places track around the board edge. Conveniently, as
noted by another, this can be nothing more than a blown up version of the
keepout or board outline. I've always placed this on the plane layers, and
have tolerated, reluctantly, the Protel warning of inner plane primitives.
But the CAM Manager would allow the setup of special plot instructions for
individual layers, and we could assign one of the new mech layers to inner
plane edge clearance, and plot it together with all the inner planes, thus
generating no spurious warning. I've not actually done this, however
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Abdulrahman Lomax
P.O. Box 690
El Verano, CA 95433
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Re: [PEDA] [PROTEL EDA USERS]: Inner Power Plane clearances
this is a rookie mistake, BUT the board shop should have advised you and/or just cut the plane back from the edges this S.O.P. don't forget that the plane is a negative, wherever there is nothing there is copper, you draw non-copper so the clearance rule doesn't really apply unless you would have them auotroute some primitives relative to the keep out, which of course would probably make a mess Dennis Saputelli Micky Blain wrote: > > Do you connect them to the nets you are putting on the plane or just have > them around the parameter. This one cost me plenty! What happened it they > decided to trim them to spec and sanded the boards down where the plane is > exposed! Scrap 500 pieces and busted my confidence in the plane rule! Protel > have a Power Plane clearance rule but it doesn't adjust the distance from > keepout. That is what I need to do is make sure the plane is 20 mils from > the keepout. > > Thanks for your suggestion I and trying it as I type! > > -Original Message- > From: TSListServer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On > Behalf Of Rob Malos > Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 4:06 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list proteledausers > Subject: Re: [PROTEL EDA USERS]: Inner Power Plane clearances > > Micky, > I have always placed rectangular fills around the edges of my > boards > on the power planes. Protel will warn you that there are primitives on the > planes in the DRC. Check these are only the fills you intended then proceed > to > generate gerbers. I have to say that I would expect a good PCB manufacturer > to > ask if I intended the plane to 'hang out' the edge of the board or if I > wanted > it cut back. > > Regards, > > Rob Malos, > Cyborg Design. > -- ___ www.integratedcontrolsinc.comIntegrated Controls, Inc. tel: 415-647-04802851 21st Street fax: 415-647-3003San Francisco, CA 94110 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * This message sent by: PROTEL EDA USERS MAILING LIST * * Use the "reply" command in your email program to * respond to this message. * * To unsubscribe from this mailing list use the form at * the Association web site. You will need to give the same * email address you originally used to subscribe (do not * give an alias unless it was used to subscribe). * * Visit http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/subscrib.html * to unsubscribe or to subscribe a new email address. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To leave the EDAFORUM discussion list, send a email with 'leave edaforum' in the body to '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' More Information : http://www.dolist.net
Re: [PEDA] [PROTEL EDA USERS]: Inner Power Plane clearances
Micky Blain wrote: > 1. just go bit on a big order with power plane clearance. It seems that the > gerbers generates the plane all the way to the edge of the keep out layers. > Is there anyway to control the power plane and manually draw them in without > doing them by split planes? Yes, you put 4 (or more, if necessary) fills around the edges of the power plane in question. You can also lay 4 wide tracks around the edge of the power plane layer. Jon * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * This message sent by: PROTEL EDA USERS MAILING LIST * * Use the "reply" command in your email program to * respond to this message. * * To unsubscribe from this mailing list use the form at * the Association web site. You will need to give the same * email address you originally used to subscribe (do not * give an alias unless it was used to subscribe). * * Visit http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/subscrib.html * to unsubscribe or to subscribe a new email address. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To leave the EDAFORUM discussion list, send a email with 'leave edaforum' in the body to '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' More Information : http://www.dolist.net
Re: [PEDA] [PROTEL EDA USERS]: Inner Power Plane clearances
Micky et al, An important point here, that I just now realized: keepouts have NO EFFECT on planes! Whether it's a keepout at the board edge, or around a mounting hole, the gerbers do NOT get negative-copper in those areas. Which is why everyone has to run these tracks around the edges. I only recently did my first board with planes. After reading your post I went and examined my gerbers and the boards in more detail. I was lucky -- the fab house "automatically" kept the planes back from the board edge by about 30mils without asking. (The planes extend a bit beyond my keepout lines, but shouldn't cause any grief.) It'd be nice if the PCB-wizard took care of this for us! Dwight. -Original Message- From: Micky Blain Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 2:19 PM Do you connect them to the nets you are putting on the plane or just have them around the parameter. This one cost me plenty! What happened it they decided to trim them to spec and sanded the boards down where the plane is exposed! Scrap 500 pieces and busted my confidence in the plane rule! Protel have a Power Plane clearance rule but it doesn't adjust the distance from keepout. That is what I need to do is make sure the plane is 20 mils from the keepout. Thanks for your suggestion I and trying it as I type! -Original Message- From: Rob Malos Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 4:06 PM Micky, I have always placed rectangular fills around the edges of my boards on the power planes. Protel will warn you that there are primitives on the planes in the DRC. Check these are only the fills you intended then proceed to generate gerbers. I have to say that I would expect a good PCB manufacturer to ask if I intended the plane to 'hang out' the edge of the board or if I wanted it cut back. Regards, Rob Malos, Cyborg Design. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * This message sent by: PROTEL EDA USERS MAILING LIST * * Use the "reply" command in your email program to * respond to this message. * * To unsubscribe from this mailing list use the form at * the Association web site. You will need to give the same * email address you originally used to subscribe (do not * give an alias unless it was used to subscribe). * * Visit http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/subscrib.html * to unsubscribe or to subscribe a new email address. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To leave the EDAFORUM discussion list, send a email with 'leave edaforum' in the body to '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' More Information : http://www.dolist.net
Re: [PEDA] [PROTEL EDA USERS]: Inner Power Plane clearances
Suggestion for a nice powerplane - clearance. Set your relative coordinates to, say the bottom lefthand corner of your board. Set a snap of 50 or 100 mils. With reference to the bottom lefthand corner, highlight and copy the board-outline - in your case this will probably be the lines on your Keepout Layer. Enable all Powerplane layers and make one of them the active, the current layer - it will show you down the bottom of the screen. Use the "paste primitive onto current layer - feature and paste your keepout-layer linework onto the current layer, then make the other powerplane layer to be the current one and repeat the step. You may want to do this for both the soldermask layers aswell. Next, disable Highlighting and click on one of the lines. A window pops up - asking which of the tracks you'd like to edit, select one of them - new dialog-box opens - enter your required track-width - eg. 100mil - that results in a 50mil recess of the powerplane, - do a global change and all trackwork for this current layer will change to desired trackwidth. Do the same for all the other layers you've pasted the boardoutline down onto. Hope this keeps you out of trouble. Cheers Robi At 16:18 12/02/01 -0600, you wrote: >Do you connect them to the nets you are putting on the plane or just have >them around the parameter. This one cost me plenty! What happened it they >decided to trim them to spec and sanded the boards down where the plane is >exposed! Scrap 500 pieces and busted my confidence in the plane rule! Protel >have a Power Plane clearance rule but it doesn't adjust the distance from >keepout. That is what I need to do is make sure the plane is 20 mils from >the keepout. > >Thanks for your suggestion I and trying it as I type! > > >-Original Message- >From: TSListServer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On >Behalf Of Rob Malos >Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 4:06 PM >To: Multiple recipients of list proteledausers >Subject: Re: [PROTEL EDA USERS]: Inner Power Plane clearances > > >Micky, > I have always placed rectangular fills around the edges of my >boards >on the power planes. Protel will warn you that there are primitives on the >planes in the DRC. Check these are only the fills you intended then proceed >to >generate gerbers. I have to say that I would expect a good PCB manufacturer >to >ask if I intended the plane to 'hang out' the edge of the board or if I >wanted >it cut back. > >Regards, > >Rob Malos, >Cyborg Design. Robi Artwork - PCB Design Bureau PO-Box 199,Lot 33 Jamaica Drive Deception Bay Q4508Australia -- C/o Robi Bittler Ph: 07-3203 0634 Fx: 07-3203 3958 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * This message sent by: PROTEL EDA USERS MAILING LIST * * Use the "reply" command in your email program to * respond to this message. * * To unsubscribe from this mailing list use the form at * the Association web site. You will need to give the same * email address you originally used to subscribe (do not * give an alias unless it was used to subscribe). * * Visit http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/subscrib.html * to unsubscribe or to subscribe a new email address. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To leave the EDAFORUM discussion list, send a email with 'leave edaforum' in the body to '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' More Information : http://www.dolist.net
Re: [PEDA] [PROTEL EDA USERS]: Inner Power Plane clearances
I usually draw the board outline on Mech 1 and then select the board outline and copy to one of the power planes. I then select just the outline on the power layer and change the track width. I select the track width depending on the required clearance between the plane and the board edge. I then copy this outline to the other power plane layers. If I use a 50 mil track width, I get a 25 mil separation of the plane and the edge of the board. I usually draw the keepout layer along the edge of the track used on the power plane area so that my traces do not extend past the edge of the plane. David W. Gulley Destiny Designs Micky Blain wrote: > > 1. just go bit on a big order with power plane clearance. It seems that the > gerbers generates the plane all the way to the edge of the keep out layers. > Is there anyway to control the power plane and manually draw them in without > doing them by split planes? * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * This message sent by: PROTEL EDA USERS MAILING LIST * * Use the "reply" command in your email program to * respond to this message. * * To unsubscribe from this mailing list use the form at * the Association web site. You will need to give the same * email address you originally used to subscribe (do not * give an alias unless it was used to subscribe). * * Visit http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/subscrib.html * to unsubscribe or to subscribe a new email address. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To leave the EDAFORUM discussion list, send a email with 'leave edaforum' in the body to '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' More Information : http://www.dolist.net
Re: [PEDA] [PROTEL EDA USERS]: Inner Power Plane clearances
Micky, I have always placed rectangular fills around the edges of my boards on the power planes. Protel will warn you that there are primitives on the planes in the DRC. Check these are only the fills you intended then proceed to generate gerbers. I have to say that I would expect a good PCB manufacturer to ask if I intended the plane to 'hang out' the edge of the board or if I wanted it cut back. Regards, Rob Malos, Cyborg Design. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * This message sent by: PROTEL EDA USERS MAILING LIST * * Use the "reply" command in your email program to * respond to this message. * * To unsubscribe from this mailing list use the form at * the Association web site. You will need to give the same * email address you originally used to subscribe (do not * give an alias unless it was used to subscribe). * * Visit http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/subscrib.html * to unsubscribe or to subscribe a new email address. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To leave the EDAFORUM discussion list, send a email with 'leave edaforum' in the body to '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' More Information : http://www.dolist.net
[PEDA] [PROTEL EDA USERS]: Inner Power Plane clearances
1. just go bit on a big order with power plane clearance. It seems that the gerbers generates the plane all the way to the edge of the keep out layers. Is there anyway to control the power plane and manually draw them in without doing them by split planes? Micky Blain * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * This message sent by: PROTEL EDA USERS MAILING LIST * * Use the "reply" command in your email program to * respond to this message. * * To unsubscribe from this mailing list use the form at * the Association web site. You will need to give the same * email address you originally used to subscribe (do not * give an alias unless it was used to subscribe). * * Visit http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/subscrib.html * to unsubscribe or to subscribe a new email address. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To leave the EDAFORUM discussion list, send a email with 'leave edaforum' in the body to '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' More Information : http://www.dolist.net
Re: [PEDA] [PROTEL EDA USERS]: Inner Power Plane clearances
Thanks for the replies, I have decided to use the tracks method. I appreciate the response. -Original Message- From: TSListServer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 5:29 PM To: Multiple recipients of list proteledausers Subject: Re: [PROTEL EDA USERS]: Inner Power Plane clearances I place a track (maybe 20 mil) on each power plane around the edge of the outline of the board to prevent the power planes from extending too far. ___ Clive Broome IDT Sydney Design CentrePh: +61 2 9763 3513 8 Bayswater Dr, HomebushFax:+61 2 9763 3409 Sydney, NSW, 2127 Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Australia Australia's Leading Semiconductor Designers --- "Micky Blain" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on 02/13/2001 07:32:56 AM Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list proteledausers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> cc:(bcc: Clive Broome/sdc) Subject: [PROTEL EDA USERS]: Inner Power Plane clearances 1. just go bit on a big order with power plane clearance. It seems that the gerbers generates the plane all the way to the edge of the keep out layers. Is there anyway to control the power plane and manually draw them in without doing them by split planes? Micky Blain * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * This message sent by: PROTEL EDA USERS MAILING LIST * * Use the "reply" command in your email program to * respond to this message. * * To unsubscribe from this mailing list use the form at * the Association web site. You will need to give the same * email address you originally used to subscribe (do not * give an alias unless it was used to subscribe). * * Visit http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/subscrib.html * to unsubscribe or to subscribe a new email address. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * This message sent by: PROTEL EDA USERS MAILING LIST * * Use the "reply" command in your email program to * respond to this message. * * To unsubscribe from this mailing list use the form at * the Association web site. You will need to give the same * email address you originally used to subscribe (do not * give an alias unless it was used to subscribe). * * Visit http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/subscrib.html * to unsubscribe or to subscribe a new email address. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * This message sent by: PROTEL EDA USERS MAILING LIST * * Use the "reply" command in your email program to * respond to this message. * * To unsubscribe from this mailing list use the form at * the Association web site. You will need to give the same * email address you originally used to subscribe (do not * give an alias unless it was used to subscribe). * * Visit http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/subscrib.html * to unsubscribe or to subscribe a new email address. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To leave the EDAFORUM discussion list, send a email with 'leave edaforum' in the body to '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' More Information : http://www.dolist.net
Re: [PEDA] [PROTEL EDA USERS]: Inner Power Plane clearances
Protel 'power planes' go forever. I place primitives like tracks or area fills on the power planes to create clearances. Remember that primitives on power planes are 'anti-copper', and this will also produce a warning when you run a drc. I often also pull in the power planes more than the ground planes (by 20H, H=plane separation)to reduce EMI fringeing effects. You also may want to use this method to remove plane copper from under I/O isolating devices. So apart from a simple clearance to the board edge,(which would be a nice feature, and would have saved you in this case) this would not be possible to automate. regards, Phil. Phil Dutton C.I.D. Senior CAD Technician IPC Certified Interconnect Designer Tenix Defence Systems Pty Ltd Systems Division - Adelaide Second Avenue, Technology Park, Mawson Lakes. SOUTH AUSTRALIA 5095 Phone (08) 8300 4400 (reception) Fax (08) 8349 7420 email [EMAIL PROTECTED] Internet Page http//www.tenix.com -Original Message- From: Micky Blain [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, 13 February 2001 8:03 To: Multiple recipients of list proteledausers Subject: [PROTEL EDA USERS]: Inner Power Plane clearances 1. just go bit on a big order with power plane clearance. It seems that the gerbers generates the plane all the way to the edge of the keep out layers. Is there anyway to control the power plane and manually draw them in without doing them by split planes? Micky Blain * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * This message sent by: PROTEL EDA USERS MAILING LIST * * Use the "reply" command in your email program to * respond to this message. * * To unsubscribe from this mailing list use the form at * the Association web site. You will need to give the same * email address you originally used to subscribe (do not * give an alias unless it was used to subscribe). * * Visit http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/subscrib.html * to unsubscribe or to subscribe a new email address. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To leave the EDAFORUM discussion list, send a email with 'leave edaforum' in the body to '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' More Information : http://www.dolist.net
Re: [PEDA] [PROTEL EDA USERS]: Inner Power Plane clearances
Do you connect them to the nets you are putting on the plane or just have them around the parameter. This one cost me plenty! What happened it they decided to trim them to spec and sanded the boards down where the plane is exposed! Scrap 500 pieces and busted my confidence in the plane rule! Protel have a Power Plane clearance rule but it doesn't adjust the distance from keepout. That is what I need to do is make sure the plane is 20 mils from the keepout. Thanks for your suggestion I and trying it as I type! -Original Message- From: TSListServer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Rob Malos Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 4:06 PM To: Multiple recipients of list proteledausers Subject: Re: [PROTEL EDA USERS]: Inner Power Plane clearances Micky, I have always placed rectangular fills around the edges of my boards on the power planes. Protel will warn you that there are primitives on the planes in the DRC. Check these are only the fills you intended then proceed to generate gerbers. I have to say that I would expect a good PCB manufacturer to ask if I intended the plane to 'hang out' the edge of the board or if I wanted it cut back. Regards, Rob Malos, Cyborg Design. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * This message sent by: PROTEL EDA USERS MAILING LIST * * Use the "reply" command in your email program to * respond to this message. * * To unsubscribe from this mailing list use the form at * the Association web site. You will need to give the same * email address you originally used to subscribe (do not * give an alias unless it was used to subscribe). * * Visit http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/subscrib.html * to unsubscribe or to subscribe a new email address. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * This message sent by: PROTEL EDA USERS MAILING LIST * * Use the "reply" command in your email program to * respond to this message. * * To unsubscribe from this mailing list use the form at * the Association web site. You will need to give the same * email address you originally used to subscribe (do not * give an alias unless it was used to subscribe). * * Visit http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/subscrib.html * to unsubscribe or to subscribe a new email address. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To leave the EDAFORUM discussion list, send a email with 'leave edaforum' in the body to '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' More Information : http://www.dolist.net
Re: [PEDA] [PROTEL EDA USERS]: Inner Power Plane clearances
Micky Blain wrote: > > 1. just go bit on a big order with power plane clearance. It seems that the > gerbers generates the plane all the way to the edge of the keep out layers. > Is there anyway to control the power plane and manually draw them in without > doing them by split planes? Just draw a wide track around the edge of the board on the plane layers. Anything you draw on the plane layers ends up as "no copper" on the finished board. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * This message sent by: PROTEL EDA USERS MAILING LIST * * Use the "reply" command in your email program to * respond to this message. * * To unsubscribe from this mailing list use the form at * the Association web site. You will need to give the same * email address you originally used to subscribe (do not * give an alias unless it was used to subscribe). * * Visit http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/subscrib.html * to unsubscribe or to subscribe a new email address. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To leave the EDAFORUM discussion list, send a email with 'leave edaforum' in the body to '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' More Information : http://www.dolist.net
Re: [PEDA] [PROTEL EDA USERS]: Inner Power Plane clearances
I place a track (maybe 20 mil) on each power plane around the edge of the outline of the board to prevent the power planes from extending too far. ___ Clive Broome IDT Sydney Design CentrePh: +61 2 9763 3513 8 Bayswater Dr, HomebushFax:+61 2 9763 3409 Sydney, NSW, 2127 Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Australia Australia's Leading Semiconductor Designers --- "Micky Blain" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on 02/13/2001 07:32:56 AM Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list proteledausers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> cc:(bcc: Clive Broome/sdc) Subject: [PROTEL EDA USERS]: Inner Power Plane clearances 1. just go bit on a big order with power plane clearance. It seems that the gerbers generates the plane all the way to the edge of the keep out layers. Is there anyway to control the power plane and manually draw them in without doing them by split planes? Micky Blain * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * This message sent by: PROTEL EDA USERS MAILING LIST * * Use the "reply" command in your email program to * respond to this message. * * To unsubscribe from this mailing list use the form at * the Association web site. You will need to give the same * email address you originally used to subscribe (do not * give an alias unless it was used to subscribe). * * Visit http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/subscrib.html * to unsubscribe or to subscribe a new email address. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * This message sent by: PROTEL EDA USERS MAILING LIST * * Use the "reply" command in your email program to * respond to this message. * * To unsubscribe from this mailing list use the form at * the Association web site. You will need to give the same * email address you originally used to subscribe (do not * give an alias unless it was used to subscribe). * * Visit http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/subscrib.html * to unsubscribe or to subscribe a new email address. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To leave the EDAFORUM discussion list, send a email with 'leave edaforum' in the body to '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' More Information : http://www.dolist.net
