Re: [RE-wrenches] Underground Data Transmission
Home Depot Cat5 or 6 in armored liquid tite conduit. Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 > Our company typically uses Belden 3106A cable (22AWG) for data > transmission > on our larger PV sites, which often involves underground runs. We were > recently informed by the manufacturer that this particular cable is not > rated for underground use - whether in conduit or direct burial - and that > furthermore they only offer a 24AWG underground rated cable ($$) or would > have to custom manufacturer a 22AWG version ($$$) > > We are wondering what product/method other groups are using for > underground > data transmission? > > -- > Corey Shalanski > Joule Energy > New Orleans, LA > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] SW inverter trivia
I remember William the X SW and the Trace SW before that:) I am not sure if I qualify to say those were good times as I have always been offgrid by several miles. The more the better! Schneider and Outback have taken steps with their recent inverter/chargers to keep that feed to the grid from happening. Several inverter/chargers will do this. The CSW has a mode that keeps the grid V higher (current flows) so the CSW can't back feed and get the user in trouble. They all call it different things like xero export, self consumption, and enhanced AC support. Most use the mppt to trigger. A sub panel is fed with the loads that the user wants backed up and powered when the sun is out. When the grid is gone the sub panel is on battery power. When there is not enough sun the grid powers the balance to the sub panel. If anyone needs any of these old devices please contact me off line as there is this storage shed of SW's and MX-60s :) Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 > Friends: > > > > Some of you may remember when the original Xantrex SW inverters were > approved for grid-tie and then that approval was rescinded. Later they > were re-approved but only with the add-on GTI boxes. Those were good > times, werenât they? > > > > I have learned a little something about that recently that I thought I > would share here. During the early 2000s PG&E transferred NEM > record-keeping from regional centers to a centralized location. During > that process, PG&E lost the files for a number of our customers. We > discovered this when smart meters are installed and the system no longer > mechanically accounts for power export. We have to lobby long and hard to > reestablish NEM authorization. I have done so for many clients. If > anyone > else is in this position, I might be able to advise. Contact me off-line. > > > > My point is that , in investigating the most recent case, we discovered > that the SW inverter exports power even when the Sell function is > disabled. The amount we recorded was about 200 watts for a 2 kw system > mid-morning in October. This system did not have the GTI interfaces. I > suspect the GTI units were developed in part to resolve this defect. > > > > This may not affect many of you, but if the subject comes up, now you > know. > > > > Sincerely, > > > > William Miller > > > > > > [image: Gradient Cap_mini] > Lic 773985 > millersolar.com <http://www.millersolar.com/> > 805-438-5600 > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Lezeti Hybrid Mini-Split Solar Air Conditioner
Good Advice Bill! We use the Fujitsu offgrid and it is over 30 SEER and amazing at heating also. The maintenance on an indoor wall unit is not easy for sure. Best not to let it go too long. What do you have to do to get the floor unit open and clean the fan? I have never tried one. --Dave > I'm curious as to how a "solar mini-split" is different than any mini > split > on a grid connected house. I've installed about a dozen mostly Fujitsu and > they wire directly back into the same panel my grid connected arrays > backfeed into. So is this a way to include the cost of the mini split > under > the 30% solar tax credit? A word of caution: The up on the wall indoor > units > have long cylindrical fans that in spite of the input air filters, still > collect lint and need to be cleaned periodically. Before you buy look at > the > procedure for maintaining that fan or replace a motor. It can be very > complicated . I've found the Fujitsu "Floor" unit to be far easier to get > into...fairly intuitive and quick. Given that many of these are going into > grid connected solar houses, their efficiency may not have the importance > that finding a brand with the best warranty, reviews and most reliability. > > Bill Dorsett > Manhattan, KS > > -Original Message- > From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On > Behalf Of Peter Giroux > Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 6:13 PM > To: RE-wrenches > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Lezeti Hybrid Mini-Split Solar Air Conditioner > > Gary > > Yes we have. I believe the unit you showed is made by Hot Spot, I have > provided a link below.. Simple easy system, customers love it. Few small > quirks when installing. Folks at Hot spot are pretty good as well. > > http://www.hotspotenergy.com/solar-air-conditioner/ > > thx > peter > > - Original Message - > From: "Gary Willett" > To: "RE-wrenches" > Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 6:53 PM > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Lezeti Hybrid Mini-Split Solar Air Conditioner > > >> Esteemed Wrenches: >> >> Anyone have any field experience with these units? >> http://lezeti-tech.com/lezeti-hybrid-solar-air-conditioner/ >> >> Thanks! >> >> Gary Willett >> Icarus Engineering / Solar Services >> Irving TX >> ___ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List-Archive: >> > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Lezeti Hybrid Mini-Split Solar Air Conditioner
_ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches. >> org/maillist.html >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Storage Battery Permitting
Jerry, Every building department is different and you may have to prove it to them. That said I have never needed permits for offgrid installation and on a few cases where the building department wanted one, they backed down once they thought about it. It could happen though these days...The one thing you might do is have the owner take out the permit and you are the consultant. Good Luck Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 > Dear Wrenches, > Has anyone installed storage battery systems with no PV or other > generation source? I see no info on local building department websites > about permitting storage batteries. I've heard one person refer to > battery storage as a "energy storage appliance" and allege that no permits > are required for this. > I'm asking because I am bidding on a small battery only installation. > It's pretty much just a battery pack and an inverter. The installation > is a test installation for a company who writes software to manage battery > installations. The management of this company sounded surprised when > permits were mentioned. > As always, any help is appreciated. > Best,Jerry Caldwell > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Storage Battery Permitting
Jerry, Every building department is different and you may have to prove it to them. That said I have never needed permits for offgrid installation and on a few cases where the building department wanted one, they backed down once they thought about it. It could happen though these days...The one thing you might do is have the owner take out the permit and you are the consultant. Good Luck Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 > Dear Wrenches, > Has anyone installed storage battery systems with no PV or other > generation source? I see no info on local building department websites > about permitting storage batteries. I've heard one person refer to > battery storage as a "energy storage appliance" and allege that no permits > are required for this. > I'm asking because I am bidding on a small battery only installation. > It's pretty much just a battery pack and an inverter. The installation > is a test installation for a company who writes software to manage battery > installations. The management of this company sounded surprised when > permits were mentioned. > As always, any help is appreciated. > Best,Jerry Caldwell > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback inverter generator question
One of the nice things about the Honda 6500i that I keep for a customer spare is that it can safely run 120 at near full output. It can do 240 as well and was replaced by the honda 7000i. Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 > Dial down the max AC input, to something like 16 A at 120 volts or less > depending on elevation. Then you can use this small gen set. The gen > dropping out of synch means a tune up at least is in its future, or like > you say, worse. > > Chris Worcester > Solar Wind Works > NABCEP Certified PV Installer > Office 530-582-4503 > Cell 530-448-9692 > Fax 530-582-4603 > www.solarwindworks.com > ch...@solarwindworks.com > > > -Original Message- > From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On > Behalf Of Ray > Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2017 7:32 PM > To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback inverter generator question > > They need to add a transformer to operate the generator at full power. As > Jerry noted, running at 120 vac, they are only pulling off one leg of the > generator. This unequal loading can damage the generator. I'm guessing > they damaged both Hondas. A transformer will allow the generator to > operate at 240 vac, and step down to 120 vac for the inverter input. At > that point, a Honda 5 K becomes a decent match for that inverter. In its > current state, they will just keep frying generators. Some generators > offer full 120 vac output, like the Ecogen. Either way these folks need > to spend some money on the right generator or a transformer and repair the > old generators. > > Ray Walters > > On 12/16/2017 7:04 PM, Jerry Shafer wrote: >> Ron >> A 5 k 120/240 genny pushing a 24 volt 3500 watt sounds way over kill >> and only pushing one leg only will result in issues, have not seen >> them with hondas but have with others. No mate means no programming so >> it might be over throttling the little inverter. You did not say >> anything about the batteries so we cant do the math but with the miss >> match it is not surprising that there are issues. Is the a PS-1 type >> panel or anything besides the inverter. maybe its me but I don't see >> parts required to make this a safe system. the Gen set issues also fit >> if there was no proper programming done. these can be fun to get all >> fixed up right and doing what they are designed to do. >> Jerry >> 255 *24 = 6120 / 2 = 3060 / (5000/2) => a 20 amp 120 vac is 2400 with >> this as an example with not much to go on, with the battery bit IF the >> batteries were dead they would be charged in just over an hr. and NO l >> did not take any losses into account but this was with D-8 DCFLA not >> sealed AGM's >> >> On Sat, Aug 12, 2017 at 2:32 PM, Ron Young >> wrote: >> >>> Have a client where I recently installed an Outback VFX3524 inverter >>> in June. Heâs using a Honda generator and has recently started having >>> issues. >>> He has been complaining that the inverter seems to be running hot but >>> I believe this is because he doesnât have good ventilation around it. >>> He is probably also running high on the loads. He doesnât have a Mate >>> so canât identify the error. He is in a remote location and I am >>> currently unable to travel due to fire restrictions in my area (major >>> BC wildfires). >>> >>> Here is his recent email: >>> -Seems the inverter is recognizing the power in as an issue, and >>> throwing an error. >>> -My existing 5000 Honda generator has been online with the unit since >>> you installed it. >>> -The last few days, when there is very little load, or the unit goes >>> to float, the generator goes into a high rpm. >>> -My existing 5000 Honda crapped out on me this morning, and holds a >>> low rpm, not putting out much power. Will run a tool, but still >>> wonât hold a higher rpm. >>> -I borrowed an identical 5000 Honda generator, and it seemed to be >>> doing fine for about 1.5 hours. >>> -Now itâs doing the same thing as the other generator. The inverter >>> system throws an error, the generator is taken offline, and the >>> generator rpm go up. >>> -If I manually manipulate the throttle not he generator lower, then >>> the inverter re-engages. >>> >>> What the heck could this be? I donât want to fry the borrowed >>> generator, but we canât systematically bypass the inver
Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback Skybox info?
The website says early 2018. They have said that before also so I would not commit yet. It does look very nice to me for my clients with the dual mppt for offgrid. > Hi folks, Does anyone have info on when (hopefully soon) Outback will be > shipping its Skybox? Bill Hennessy > Berks Solar, LLC > 371 Centennial Rd > Mertztown, PA 19539 > > o 610 682 4300 > c 484 560 4666 > NABCEP certified installer > PA contractor #44411 > www.berkssolar.com > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] GS battery use?
I have 2 systems on my hill here that have the Trojan Smart carbon and the regular Trojan. They both are flooded 2V 1100 AH batteries and I see, and my clients see no difference. The both are about 6 years old. They both have the ridiculously stupid 3 ports for each 2V to water. I did not spec this battery and wanted Surrette but. Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 > Hadn't seen the spec sheet of the GS battery... thanks. > > It's a Carbon battery with a Carbon additive to the negative plate. > Generally and this of course depends on the manufacturer when you add > carbon to the neg anode (plate) it increases the cycle life, and charge > acceptance of the battery. It also makes it more resistive to hardened > sulfation situations. > > The drawback, at least from what Rolls has found is when you do this you > also increase the self discharge rate of the battery, they don't show this > on their spec sheet... > > Rolls has been working on a carbon based battery for some time now, at > least longer than I've been there... Eng, says they are still working the > kinks out and finishing testing. We typically don't beta test product on > customers. The draw back on that is we can be behind the new product > release curve! > > <http://www.rollsbattery.com> <http://www.rollsbattery.com> > <http://www.rollsbattery.com> <http://www.rollsbattery.com> > <http://www.rollsbattery.com> <http://www.rollsbattery.com> > <http://www.rollsbattery.com> <http://www.rollsbattery.com> > <http://www.rollsbattery.com> <http://www.rollsbattery.com> > <http://www.rollsbattery.com> <http://www.rollsbattery.com> > <http://www.rollsbattery.com> <http://www.rollsbattery.com> > <http://www.rollsbattery.com> > Steve Higgins â Technical Services Manager > t +1.902.597.4020 m +1.206.790.5840 > f +1.902.597.8447 e st...@surrette.com > <#UNIQUE_ID_SafeHtmlFilter_> <http://www.facebook.com/RollsBattery> > <http://www.facebook.com/RollsBattery> > <http://www.twitter.com/RollsBattery> > <https://www.youtube.com/user/RollsBattery> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/rolls-battery-engineering> > <http://www.instagram.com/RollsBattery> > <http://www.instagram.com/RollsBattery> > <http://www.instagram.com/RollsBattery> > -- > CONFIDENTIALITY: The information transmitted herein is intended only for > the addressee and may contain confidential, proprietary and/or privileged > material. Any unauthorized review, distribution or other use of or the > taking of any action in reliance upon this information is prohibited. If > you receive this email in error, please contact the sender and delete or > destroy this message and all copies. > -- > > On Thu, Jan 4, 2018 at 10:20 AM, Daniel Tittmann > wrote: > >> forgot to include the link to the GS batteries. >> >> http://www.gsbattery.com/PDFs/SLR1000-2.pdf >> >> Thank you Steve for the information on the construction of the batteries >> and how that affects cycle life. >> Cheers- >> Daniel >> >> >> Daniel Tittmann >> CTO >> Greenwired >> www.greenwired.com >> dan...@greenwired.com >> 707-923-2001 Ext. 500 (office) >> 707-206-5088 (Cell) >> >> On Thu, Jan 4, 2018 at 10:49 AM, Daniel Tittmann >> wrote: >> >> > I am reaching out to the group to see if there is any experience with >> GS >> > batteries. Their cycle life graph is better than I have seen in any >> VRLA >> > battery I have seen (see comparison below). I wanted to know if >> anyone >> on >> > here has used them and if so have you experienced the cycle life that >> they >> > are reporting. I am waiting for a reply from the manufacturer for >> more >> > info as well. >> > >> > [image: Inline image 2] >> > >> > as comparison: >> > Rolls gel cell cycle life is more classic to what we see in most >> batteries >> > http://www.rollsbattery.com/wp-content/uploads/batteries/S2-1070GEL.pdf >> > [image: Inline image 3] >> > >> > or Full river DC400-6 >> > http://www.fullriverbattery.com/product/batteries/DC400-6 >> > [image: Inline image 1] >> > What am i missing or how do they do this? >> > thanks >> > Daniel >> > >> > Daniel Tittmann >> > CTO >> > Greenwired >> > www.gree
Re: [RE-wrenches] blue planet batteries
I almost became a dealer They wanted me to deal with sales tax and I like being able to decide that with AEE and Soligent. They do not communicate directly with the inverter/charger/Mppt. They appear robust enough to not need to. They work with anyone's existing system. They do have an App that gets you the SOC data. I did not see anything for SOL though. I could have missed that. They are not reasonably priced at this time in my opinion. I do like the 30LB blocks to build a 200+ LB enclosure. No heavy lifting. There is the, will they be there down the road? I like the SOC getting out to my Outback and Schneider systems to the web portals and this won't do it, yet. Staying too dry here for January! You Jay? Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 > While we are talking about batteries, > > Does anyone have any experience with the Blueplanet lithium for off grid? > > Do they communicate with the inverter system is a big question? > > thx > jay > > peltz power > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] blue planet batteries
Since there are no coms to the system from the battery, the Blues will work with most any 48V nominal inverter/charger/mppts. Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 > Will these work on Sunny Island systems? > > Thanks, > > Drake > > At 04:04 PM 1/4/2018, you wrote: > >> >>JayOur office has done research on quit a gew batteries, the Blue >>Ion Blue Planets battery has been very good in our testing. Feel >>free to talk off listJerry >> >> >>Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone >> >> Original message >>From: jay >>Date: 1/4/18 8:35 AM (GMT-10:00) >>To: RE-wrenches >>Subject: [RE-wrenches] blue planet batteries >> >>While we are talking about batteries, >> >>Does anyone have any experience with the Blueplanet lithium for off grid? >> >>Do they communicate with the inverter system is a big question? >> >>thx >>jay >> >>peltz power >>___ >>List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >>List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >>Change listserver email address & settings: >>http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >>List-Archive: >>http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html >> >>List rules & etiquette: >>www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >>Check out or update participant bios: >>www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >>___ >>List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >>List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >>Change listserver email address & settings: >>http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >>List-Archive: >>http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html >> >>List rules & etiquette: >>www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >>Check out or update participant bios: >>www.members.re-wrenches.org > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Sunflower - Energy Innovations
What a surprise... A mechanical nightmare from Sunflower. On a similar note Array Technology use to make the AZ 125 which was a totally reliable tracker on a 6 inch pole about 125 sqft of solar. I have some from 15 years that have never needed anything but a squirt of grease. The still make the AZ 250 but it's 8 inch pole is pretty hard to get into remote hilly places. Their HZLA is great also but not easy on some hill. Anyone see a good single axis pole mount out there? I keep hoping as my stock of the old Wattsuns/Array Technology is down to one? Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 > Wrenches, > > Just had a company reach out and ask if we could fix an Energy Innovations > Sunflower CPV system. Their contractor has gone out of business as well as > Energy Innovations (go figure). I said NO WAY but, thought I would ask on > his behalf if any of you knows if someone bought their IP and can offer > repair services for him. > > Thanks! > > Chad Waits > President/Owner Net Zero Solar > 101 W. 5th St., Tucson, AZ 85705 > Office: 520-207-4053 > Cell: 520-270-4873 > NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional > > > > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Off grid DC Loads: DC Converter
Seems to me that you are on the edge for that size battery in winter. If the inverter is going to be on, converters are kind of nutty to me. I could see having one 24V for the freezer but... I only use Concorde AGM's when I have to. Is there an AH counter or Batt Mon? Good Luck Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 > Answers to questions: > > > > The batteries are Discover EVL16A-A batteries. A single string of 8: 390AH > @48V nominal. We had one fail last year, showing a significantly raised > internal resistance when tested under a load then under charge. There is > another one showing signs of weakness, but currently under a 30A draw it > is only 0.12V lower than the highest battery in the mix, and 0.05V from > the average battery voltage. Readings were: 6.0, 5.88, 6.0, 5.93, 5.92, > 5.91, 5.93, 5.94 using a 1500W space heater as a constant load during the > test. > > > > There are more loads than just networking and security that the client > just recently disclosed. Gotta love the added loads to the design. There > is a satellite DVR, 2x4 camera webcam systems, cell modem, simplisafe > security system, chest freezer, 4 wifi range extenders to serve the less > reliable security camera system, and 26W LED dusk-dawn light. I have > already talked to them about thinking hard on what items can be removed > for the winter at least (DVR is going away, and one of the camera systems > too, likely the one requiring the wifi range extenders). All other seasons > the system is fine. > > > > As for the DC converter(s) we would get a voltage specific converter for > any unique voltages, depending on the # of unique items, we would likely > abandon that approach if it got to bee too complicated. But thank you to > all that provided guidance there. The meanwell units seemed to have the > right specs to do the job if we go that route. We would also install them > using a LVD of some sort, set somewhere above the standard low voltage > cutoff of the rest of the system. We would also only go this route if all > AC loads could be removed by doing this, allowing us to remove the 36w > idle draw of the Outback. > > > > With Regards, > > > > Daniel Young, > > NABCEP Certified PV Installation ProfessionalTM: Cert #031508-90 > > > > Lead Systems Designer for: > > > > <http://www.dovetailsolar.com/> www.dovetailsolar.com > > Ph: 740-274-0139 > > > > Weâve completed nearly 400 renewable energy projects! Check out a few > in our photo gallery: > <http://www.dovetailsolar.com/Our-Work.aspx?path=commercial+-+solar+electric> > http://www.dovetailsolar.com/Our-Work.aspx?path=commercial+-+solar+electric > > This email message and attachments are intended only for the addressee. > It may contain information which is legally privileged, confidential and > exempt from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient of this > message, you may not disclose, print, copy or disseminate this message > and/or the information contained in the message. If you have received > this message in error, please reply and notify the sender (only) and > delete this message along with any attachments. Unauthorized interception > of this email is a violation of criminal laws and laws covering electronic > communications privacy matters. > > > > From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On > Behalf Of Starlight Solar Power Systems > Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 11:08 AM > To: RE-wrenches > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Off grid DC Loads: DC Converter > > > > I too would like to know the make and model of batteries that are loosing > capacity. In the past 5 years we have experienced abnormally high failures > from 2 brands. > > > > Larry > > On Jan 15, 2018, at 2:00 PM, Jay <mailto:jay.pe...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > Can you tell us: > > > > Battery make,model and size? > > > > Jay > > Peltz power. > > > On Jan 15, 2018, at 12:32 PM, Daniel Young < > <mailto:dyo...@dovetailsolar.com> dyo...@dovetailsolar.com> wrote: > > Hello Wrenches, > > > > I have a client that is running into an issue with his off grid system. > The system is 3yrs old and they are starting to notice their AGM battery > bank is loosing capacity, in reality they are noticing the generator is > triggering more often. They want to try to lower the frequency of the > generator triggering if possible. > > > > The system is not occupied during much of the winter (unconditioned, which > further hurts the battery bank capa
Re: [RE-wrenches] Off grid DC Loads: DC Converter
Or just design extra loading in. Tell them they have this much wiggle room and after that, it is the next size in battery and more solar. People always use more after a year or so. I also have the client post a copy of the cost for the battery on the wall near the system. Good Luck! Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 > Do an Energy Load Evaluation, it commits the client to participation in a > personal way. I will not design without one. > > > Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. > 208.721.7003 d...@solarwork.com > Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 > NABCEP # 051112-136 www.solarwork.biz > "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" > ï Please consider the environment before printing this email. > > > -Original Message- > From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On > Behalf Of Daniel Young > Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 1:51 PM > To: 'RE-wrenches' > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Off grid DC Loads: DC Converter > > Agreed Dave, there are more loads than the original design accounted for. > The client understands this so at least we're not in hot water. We're just > trying to help them figure out options. > > As for the converters, this was the idea before the client told us about > the freezer being left on while they were away. It was originally planned > that the freezer and fridge were only to be used while they were on site. > The converters were only the plan when we thought we were dealing with 4-5 > different DC loads, and assuming 2 different DC voltages being needed. The > situation changed since the original post. > > The site does have a flexnet-DC, this is what I'm using for my analysis of > the loads on an ongoing basis. I've been using the information coming from > the 2 shunts used in the system, as my experience has been that they are > the most accurate part of the system viewable from Optics-RE. > > As for concords, they don't appear to be very different from the cut sheet > standpoint. Similar cycle life, similar capacity vs temperature. But they > are both AGM. I know concord is a big name in the AGM space as they supply > to the D.O.D. but our local suppliers do not carry them. I'd be open to > others opinions on the different brand options. Most AGM system we put in > are just floating for the 1-2 times a year the power goes out for suburban > and semi-rural clients. This off grid job went AGM due to the expected > long absences and unconditioned battery location (expected cold temps > while possibly at a lower SOC). The client really did not want to do the > standard flooded battery maintenance. > > With Regards, > > Daniel Young, > NABCEP Certified PV Installation ProfessionalTM: Cert #031508-90 > > Lead Systems Designer for: > > www.dovetailsolar.com > Ph: 740-274-0139 > > -Original Message- > From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On > Behalf Of Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar > Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 3:34 PM > To: RE-wrenches > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Off grid DC Loads: DC Converter > > Seems to me that you are on the edge for that size battery in winter. If > the inverter is going to be on, converters are kind of nutty to me. I > could see having one 24V for the freezer but... I only use Concorde AGM's > when I have to. Is there an AH counter or Batt Mon? > Good Luck > > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar > "we go where powerlines don't" > http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ > e-mail offgridso...@sti.net > text 209 813 0060 > >> Answers to questions: >> >> >> >> The batteries are Discover EVL16A-A batteries. A single string of 8: >> 390AH @48V nominal. We had one fail last year, showing a significantly >> raised internal resistance when tested under a load then under charge. >> There is another one showing signs of weakness, but currently under a >> 30A draw it is only 0.12V lower than the highest battery in the mix, >> and 0.05V from the average battery voltage. Readings were: 6.0, 5.88, >> 6.0, 5.93, 5.92, 5.91, 5.93, 5.94 using a 1500W space heater as a >> constant load during the test. >> >> >> >> There are more loads than just networking and security that the client >> just recently disclosed. Gotta love the added loads to the design. >> There is a satellite DVR, 2x4 camera webcam systems, cell
Re: [RE-wrenches] Off grid DC Loads: DC Converter
Wow that is bad! I only have used their 400AH 6V and prefer a wet battery from Surrette, US, or Trojan for Lead Acid. > On 1/18/2018 10:18 AM, Drake wrote: >> A Concorde AGM PVX 3050T recently failed in a bank of 8. Larry mentioned >> a couple of brands experiencing problems. These batteries are 4 years >> old and have been kept in float in an off grid system, never stressed. >> Hopefully Concorde batteries are not going the way of Trojan L-16s. Has >> anyone else had problems with Concorde? > > About three or four years ago we started experiencing problems with > Concorde PVX batteries. I use them in smaller systems. Typically in > their range of smallest to around 200 amp/hours. Telemetry sort of > applications with small wind and/or PV powering small loads. Lots of > floating and generally pleasant cycles. > > Problems: > Leaking battery terminals when batteries are laid on their sides. > > Low capacity. Not testing at anywhere near their rated capacity after > just a few cycles. > > Dead on arrival, even with current date code. > > Seemingly high self discharged. Full charged battery reading 10.5 volts > after 6 weeks of storage. > > I had a rash of these sort of problems. Perhaps 10 batteries out of 30 > over the course of a year. The distributor was pleasant and replaced > batteries at no charge. But I decided the Concorde batteries didn't seem > to be acting as premium as they used to. So I switched to bog standard > AGM batteries for most small applications. Universal Battery and > PowerSonic and our battery distributor's house brand of Chinese > batteries. Tried some Full River batteries last year and they seem to be > doing fine. > > The funny thing is I have small systems from early 2000's still running > on their original PVX batteries. But I don't feel that would be possible > with the batteries I was getting when I finally gave up. > > > > > -- > -James Jefferson Jarvis > APRS World, LLC > +1-507-454-2727 > www.aprsworld.com > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Schneider 600volt Charge Controller
My record is 1500 feet with the mppt-80-600v. I don't have a generator so I am a bit different:) the pix is working again! Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 > We have had two in the field for two years with noproblems. They > allowed us to run 375feet with conductors that was substantially smaller > than what would have otherwise been possible. Chris > > > On 1/18/2018 12:34 PM, Mac Lewis wrote: >> I'll vouch for Schneider's 600A charge controller as well. We don't >> have as many as Dave has out there but no failures. Seems to be a >> solid device. Works well with the PDP too. >> >> Good Luck! >> >> On Thu, Jan 18, 2018 at 10:15 AM, Howie Michaelson >> mailto:howie.michael...@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> Boy, that would be a bonus! I like sticking with products that >> have worked for me, although I am intrigued by the XW 600vDC. >> >> Any word on the release date for Midnite's inverter? >> >> On Thu, Jan 18, 2018 at 11:51 AM, > <mailto:penobscotso...@midmaine.com>> wrote: >> >> FYI Howie, >>   Schneider engineers are actively working on a communication >> solutions >> between the Schneider Xanbus and Midnite controllers. I've >> been talking >> to an engineer working on it who says it should be ready very >> soon. It >> will also work with the combox for remote monitoring. >> >> Daryl >> >> >> > Hi All, >> > Anyone have feedback/review of the 600 volt Schneider Charge >> Controller >> > that they'd care to share? I have an existing Conext XW+ >> off-grid system >> > with combox communication setup which currently has about >> 1.5 kW of solar >> > feeding through 2 MX60s (no hub). We'll be adding about 5kW >> (on a TPM >> > about >> > 150' away) and I'm trying to decide if overall it would be >> better to use >> > the Schneider 600v (which I haven't used before, although I >> have serviced >> > the 150v XW with no real complaints). Typically I would use >> a Classic200, >> > but given the ability to integrate with the XW6848 and >> communicate through >> > the Combox for more offsite visibility, I'm considering the >> Schneider, but >> > only if it's not going to provide me with the benefit of >> added service >> > calls. >> > TIA! >> > Howie >> > ___ >> > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> > >> > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> <mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> >> > >> > Change listserver email address & settings: >> > >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org> >> > >> > List-Archive: >> > >> >> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html >> >> <http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html> >> > >> > List rules & etiquette: >> > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> <http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm> >> > >> > Check out or update participant bios: >> > www.members.re-wrenches.org >> <http://www.members.re-wrenches.org> >> > >> > >> >> >> ___ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> <mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org> >> >> List-Archive: >> >> htt
Re: [RE-wrenches] Schneider 600volt Charge Controller
Yep same here the ubiquitous CH361 and a midnite SPD and a Delta. I very rarely need more than 2 strings so fuses and not used. I would never want 600v floating around in any enclosure with other electrical code or not! I know grid -tie does this all the time but not for offgrid. IMHO. There are a few other choices I have had to use I can dig up if needed. PM me. Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 > Hi Howie, > > I have installed about 10 of these and all have worked well, longest > operating unit about 3 years old. My only complaint is the 600V input > breakers are not really thought through, as my understanding is code does > not permit 600VDC within the PDP, Midnite, etc enclosure. So we use a > SquareD CH361 external fused disconnect and keep all the 600V wiring > external to the PDP. Curious how others approach that. > > Kevin Pegg > EA Energy Alternatives Ltd. > 37471 Hwy 16 E > Telkwa, BC V0J 2X2 > 250-846-9888 > Http://www.EnergyAlternatives.ca > > > From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On > Behalf Of Howie Michaelson > Sent: January-18-18 8:35 AM > To: RE-wrenches > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Schneider 600volt Charge Controller > > Hi All, > Anyone have feedback/review of the 600 volt Schneider Charge Controller > that they'd care to share? I have an existing Conext XW+ off-grid system > with combox communication setup which currently has about 1.5 kW of solar > feeding through 2 MX60s (no hub). We'll be adding about 5kW (on a TPM > about 150' away) and I'm trying to decide if overall it would be better to > use the Schneider 600v (which I haven't used before, although I have > serviced the 150v XW with no real complaints). Typically I would use a > Classic200, but given the ability to integrate with the XW6848 and > communicate through the Combox for more offsite visibility, I'm > considering the Schneider, but only if it's not going to provide me with > the benefit of added service calls. > TIA! > Howie > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] automatic transfer switch
I think so also for the same reason Chris! So I guess I don't understand why you need the external transfer switch Jay? Is not the internal radian transfer switch the less is more for offgrid? --Dave > I think Radians are redundant anyway, if you parallel the output they will > keep going when one fails. Also, the 8KW are two x 4KW modules, both can > function independently. I know this because we lost one at home and kept > going until a replacement arrived. > > On Thu, Jan 11, 2018 at 7:03 PM, jay wrote: > >> HI all, >> >> Iâm doing a project with 2 radians in a redundant configuration. >> Each one would go into a transfer switch to power the common load. >> >> Iâm looking for a good, fast transfer switch. 30amp 120/240 is fine. >> And maybe a mechanical feature as well. >> Code isnât an issue >> Will be off grid, remote mexico. >> >> There is the Iota of course, but was just looking for options. >> >> thx in advance, >> >> jay >> >> peltz power >> >> >> >> >> ___ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches. >> org/maillist.html >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> > > > -- > Chris Mason > NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer⢠> Solar Design Engineer > Generac Generators Industrial technician > > www.cometsolar.com <http://www.cometenergysystems.com> > 264.235.5670 > 869.662.5670 > Skype: netconcepts > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Schneider 600volt Charge Controller
Probably the first firmware change and they knew it was coming. Just a guess. They have been bullet proof except the addition of Combox made them susceptible to an issue that was fixed in the combox. Anyone with combox should do the update as it really can make the system recover from issues such as grid/generator glitches into xanbus. > Of the ten or so I've put in, only one failure so far, and Schneider was > QUICK to replace it with little question (leaving me with a faint > impression there was an issue they identified, but didn't want to fess up > to) otherwise, I am quite pleased with the large voltage window. > > Joe Nelson > C-46/C-10 #1004568 > Project Manager S.E.G. > www.sustainableenergygroup.com > > On Jan 18, 2018 21:11, "jay" wrote: > >> HI All, >> >> Iâm curious how you are all dealing with the arc fault requirement for >> CCâs? >> >> thx >> jay >> >> peltz power >> >> > On Jan 18, 2018, at 2:58 PM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar < >> offgridso...@sti.net> wrote: >> > >> > Yep same here the ubiquitous CH361 and a midnite SPD and a Delta. I >> very >> > rarely need more than 2 strings so fuses and not used. I would never >> want >> > 600v floating around in any enclosure with other electrical code or >> not! >> I >> > know grid -tie does this all the time but not for offgrid. IMHO. >> > >> > There are a few other choices I have had to use I can dig up if >> needed. >> PM >> > me. >> > >> > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar >> > "we go where powerlines don't" >> > http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ >> > e-mail offgridso...@sti.net >> > text 209 813 0060 >> > >> >> Hi Howie, >> >> >> >> I have installed about 10 of these and all have worked well, longest >> >> operating unit about 3 years old. My only complaint is the 600V input >> >> breakers are not really thought through, as my understanding is code >> does >> >> not permit 600VDC within the PDP, Midnite, etc enclosure. So we use a >> >> SquareD CH361 external fused disconnect and keep all the 600V wiring >> >> external to the PDP. Curious how others approach that. >> >> >> >> Kevin Pegg >> >> EA Energy Alternatives Ltd. >> >> 37471 Hwy 16 E >> >> Telkwa, BC V0J 2X2 >> >> 250-846-9888 >> >> Http://www.EnergyAlternatives.ca >> >> >> >> >> >> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] >> On >> >> Behalf Of Howie Michaelson >> >> Sent: January-18-18 8:35 AM >> >> To: RE-wrenches >> >> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Schneider 600volt Charge Controller >> >> >> >> Hi All, >> >> Anyone have feedback/review of the 600 volt Schneider Charge >> Controller >> >> that they'd care to share? I have an existing Conext XW+ off-grid >> system >> >> with combox communication setup which currently has about 1.5 kW of >> solar >> >> feeding through 2 MX60s (no hub). We'll be adding about 5kW (on a TPM >> >> about 150' away) and I'm trying to decide if overall it would be >> better >> to >> >> use the Schneider 600v (which I haven't used before, although I have >> >> serviced the 150v XW with no real complaints). Typically I would use >> a >> >> Classic200, but given the ability to integrate with the XW6848 and >> >> communicate through the Combox for more offsite visibility, I'm >> >> considering the Schneider, but only if it's not going to provide me >> with >> >> the benefit of added service calls. >> >> TIA! >> >> Howie >> >> ___ >> >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> >> >> List-Archive: >> >> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches. >> org/maillist.html >> >> >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> >> www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> >&
Re: [RE-wrenches] RV solar with SunPower
I believe all of the E series will work. It was a series before that had issues when not used as designed for. This unit is for a module inverter and you would have to isolate the PV wiring or remove the inverter. It is a great module and worth doing. You will need an mppt for 55 MPV which almost any can do. Good Luck! > Hi Wrenches, > > I have a buddy that would like to use a leftover SunPower E20-327-C-AC, > panel on his RV. Obviously he would need to take the inverter off. What > I'm not sure of is if this panel can operate in an ungrounded > configuration, or negative ground or does this still need a positive > ground? If it does need a positive ground, are there any decent MPPT > charge controllers that are fully isolated from PV to battery side, that > would allow PV + ground and Battery - ground? > > Thanks > > -- > > > > Mac Lewis > > *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates* > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] RV solar with SunPower
Definitely agree! The E series is fine ! I run strings of 6 or 7 all the time negative ground GFCI. Best panel in the world with Panasonic and LG a close second! --Dave > A number of years ago SunPower switched to using a new cell that does NOT > require positive grounding. > > So there should be no problem in using that 327 as described. > > Marco > > On Saturday, January 20, 2018, Mac Lewis wrote: > >> Hi Wrenches, >> >> I have a buddy that would like to use a leftover SunPower E20-327-C-AC, >> panel on his RV. Obviously he would need to take the inverter off. >> What >> I'm not sure of is if this panel can operate in an ungrounded >> configuration, or negative ground or does this still need a positive >> ground? If it does need a positive ground, are there any decent MPPT >> charge controllers that are fully isolated from PV to battery side, that >> would allow PV + ground and Battery - ground? >> >> Thanks >> >> -- >> >> >> >> Mac Lewis >> >> *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates* >> > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] has anyone ever had this happen?
Pre-build it in a shipping container here! Have them pay for it all and inspect before shipment. They can keep a small portion for your final labor, travel, and expenses in a 2-way escrow account. When you are safely home you get the final amount and they get back an amount that is more than the amount you received. It is not cheap to set something like this up so collect a fee at the start! You have to do something to protect your most valuable treasure! Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 > Ho Jay, > > Iâd be extremely careful. > > First with your pricing, donât forgive some of your legitimate costs. > Add Shipping & Handling and taxes to all equipment purchases. Carefully > estimate your labor costs, travel to Mexico, shipping across the border to > Mexico. Are there any import costs? What will be other âcosts of doing > businessâ? > > Second, you know what it costs to run your business. Add the appropriate > overhead and general and administrative costs. Office staff and your > salary; insurance; and other indirect costs. You might tell them what your > indirect cost schedule is (e.g. 15% on PV panels, inverters, batteries > and any other hardware; 10% on wages and other fees), and if they donât > agree, decline to do business with them. > > Third, Iâd set up a progress payment schedule. Arrange for payment in in > $US bank draft (be careful of bogus bank drafts) or other form of payment > you are confortable with. > > Fourth, does your existing insurance policies cover equipment and auto > theft (in Mexico)? Get a rider if it doesnât. > > Fifth, donât provide them with any design information prior to signing a > contract. > > Peter T. Parrish > SolarGnosis > 1107 Fair Oaks Ave. Ste. 351 > South Pasadena, CA 91030 > (323) 839-6108 > peter.parr...@solargnosis.com > > From: jay > Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 11:44 AM > To: RE-wrenches > Subject: [RE-wrenches] has anyone ever had this happen? > > > HI All, > > Iâve had a large company want to do a project and they want me to > invoice it as follows. They said it had to do with knowing the cost of > the system, but that doesnât seem right to me. Now I donât want to get > screwed here, and it sure seems that could happen. > > Iâm pretty sure I know what you all will say, but I feel like I needed > to get a bit of a reality check. > As I mostly do projects on a handshake, dealing with large companies > isnât too common for me. > > > 1. give them wholesale pricing ( line item by item) > 2. add margin, but small one is all theyâll accept > > Project is an off grid, no permits, in Mexico, remote site and pretty big: > 16kw inverter, 9kw PV, etc. > > Thanks > > jay > > peltz power > > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] has anyone ever had this happen?
Not to mention that the Baja and the mainland are very different also. I lived down there and did business for 10 years and so all of my knowledge gained is probably very outdated 18 years later. It probably was old news 1 year later:) Use a shipping container! Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 > The regulations for doing business in Mexico are > intense. There are customs with organized > corruption that make it necessary for someone to totally know the ropes. > > At 01:48 PM 1/23/2018, you wrote: >>HI All, Iâve had a large company want to do a >>project and they want me to invoice it as >>follows. They said it had to do with knowing >>the cost of the system, but that doesnât seem >>right to me. Now I donât want to get screwed >>here, and it sure seems that could happen. Iâm >>pretty sure I know what you all will say, but I >>feel like I needed to get a bit of a reality >>check. As I mostly do projects on a handshake, >>dealing with large companies isnât too common >>for me. 1. give them wholesale pricing ( line >>item by item) 2. add margin, but small one is >>all theyâll accept Project is an off grid, no >>permits, in Mexico, remote site and pretty >>big: 16kw inverter, 9kw PV, etc. Thanks jay >>peltz power >>___ >>List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: >>RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change >>listserver email address & settings: >>http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>List-Archive: >>http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html >>List rules & etiquette: >>www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or >>update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] My .02 - 12/24v garage door opener.....
Not even going to mention building code and running DC wiring outside of the area (battery/inverter/chargers location) an inspector would allow. Even some of the very rural/extreme remote counties I work in know that they are ill-equipped to inspect DC wiring. Some will tell you there is no inspection for offgrid homes but if there is a fire they will say they told the installer no DC wiring except in the area of the battery. Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 > Wow, this is flash from the past⦠I had almost forgotten about running > DC in a house or garage. > > With todays inverter efficiencyâs & costs VS. the cost of proper DC wire > sizing, garage lighting?, & having to modify a reliable lift system, etc. > > Is there really a cost savings in the longs run? > > > > Itâs a garage, are you going to need to run any AC tools, battery > chargers? > > I mean it is a potential man cave, really nowâ¦. > > > > > > Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. > > C - 208.721.7003 d...@solarwork.com > > Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 > > NABCEP # 051112-136<http://www.solarwork.biz> > www.solarwork.biz > > "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" > > P Please consider the environment before printing this email. > > > > > > From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On > Behalf Of Darryl Thayer > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2018 3:46 AM > To: newrewrenches > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 12/24v garage door opener. > > > > I have measured the energy used by a garage door opener on more than one > occasion. they draw a fair amount of power while operating, however. they > don't draw power otherwise so the total energy is very low. I am > wondering if a low cost non pure sine inverter to AC operated off the > switches which would be low voltage would not serve the same low energy > use and reliability of a DC garage door opener > > > > On Jan 31, 2018 2:39 AM, "John" <mailto:j...@gosolar.co.nz> > wrote: > > Hi all, any recommendations where to find 12 or 24v garage door openers. >Canât remember this coming up on the list beforehand. It is just > for a single car garage door.Donât want to use an inverter, usually > better to go direct to a dc motor. > > Once I have a suitable opener, I can design the rest of the system around > it. > > Thanks for any/all input. John Veix, > GoSolar Ltd, N.Z. > > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > <mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > <http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm> > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org <http://www.members.re-wrenches.org> > > > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] EMP and Solar
A client sent me this link below. They are marketing this device which was tested for a very fast response compared to a lighting arrestor designed slower response requirement. Comments if you have time to read it? http://www.myempshield.com/ Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] EMP and Solar
It is designed/tested to be much faster response than a lightning or surge protector which it is not designed for. If you have time to to read thru the pages I would appreciate your input. The different pages take about an hour or so to read. The one time use EMP used on some some of the spy sats I saw was a very formidable device. The Mil Spec this is tested for was similar I think. Been alot of years. In our small town up here in the Sierra, Wiley labs did the testing on several of those one time devices for Lockheed Martin. It would be nice to get this over to Midnite and get their comments. I think I have used over 500 of their SPD's and while many people could care less about surviving in this dismal situation, I know there are many who plan on it. The Mormon church for instance. I am not a Mormon but they are the most prepared for many bad things. The links are pretty good and these folks have been around for quite some time. http://www.myempshield.com/Resources.htm As I asked in the first post, has anyone seen anything like this out there? Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] experience with the Tesla Powerwall
Tesla also promises an offgrid version soon that will be DC coupled. The price is not bad for 13 KWH right now. The system is 50 vdc which to me is usable as it stands. All of the 400vdc batteries are not conceived right in my humble opinion! Not to mention for safety in my home! Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 > *Aloha Wrenches,* > > > *I thought I'd share my own experiences with the Powerwall as my company > is > now launching a program to add PW to existing NEM systems since the vast > majority of them do not have storage which means that if the grid goes > down, so does their PV system. (With the exception of the SMA SB line and > their Secure Power Supply.)* > > > *And no, I'm not a shill or toadie for Tesla.* > > > *marco * > > *I wanted to walk my own talk. Before we launched adding Powerwall to > existing Net Energy Metered solar electric systems, I wanted to make sure > that what was promised on paper would work in the real world. I added > Powerwall to my NEM system last year and have been monitoring and testing > it during normal grid-on and grid outage modes. And Iâm very pleased to > report that Powerwall has performed flawlessly and as expected.* > > > > *When used in a NEM system, Powerwall is programmed to be in âBackupâ > mode. When utility power is on, Powerwall stands ready in a full state of > charge for any power outage. During normal grid-on conditions, my > Powerall > takes about .6 kilowatt-hours every other day to stay fully charged. Over > the course of the month, this Powerwallâs electricity consumption comes > to > about 9 kWhs or about $3/month at the current HELCO R rate.* > > > > *I have turned the utility power off to my home on a number of occasions > in > order to experience how Powerwall would perform in a simulated grid > outage. When the grid goes down, my house effectively becomes a > self-generating micro-grid. That is, my photovoltaic system (solar > modules > and inverters) and Powerwall (battery storage and integrated inverter) > form > a power grid with energy being created and stored and then consumed by my > electric loads.* > > > > *Several things I noted from my simulated grid outages:* > > *· I purposefully overloaded Powerwall by turning on my electric > dryer and electric oven at the same time. As expected, since the maximum > output of Powerwall is 5 kilowatts, it shutdown. Meaning that all the > power in my house went off. Within seconds, Powerwall reset itself and > the > power came back on, with the dryer and oven having shut down after the > power went off. If power does not come back on after your Powerwall trips > off, you will need to turn off those high-power loads and reset Powerwall > by turning its black on-off switch, located on the right side of the unit, > from on to off and then on again. The important takeaway: during a > utility > outage, you will need to be careful as far as operating heavy electric > loads, especially 240 volt appliances both from the perspective of > overloading your Powerwall and rapidly drawing down the battery capacity, > especially at night.* > > *· The magic of frequency shifting. Without getting into too > much > techno-talk, this is the story of frequency shifting. Normal utility > frequency is 60 hertz (Hz). PV inverters require the utility frequency to > be at or near 60 Hz in order to operate. During a grid outage, Powerwall > effectively establishes grid quality power (120/240 volts at 60 Hz), > allowing a micro grid to operate with solar providing power to your house > loads (during daylight hours) and charge Powerwall as needed. During the > day with the loads being met by your PV system and Powerwall being at or > near full state of charge (97-100 percent), Powerwall will shift the > frequency from 60 to 66 Hz in order to turn off the PV inverter(s). That > is, the PV inverter(s) see the frequency out of spec and shut down as > theyâre expected and required to do. Why? Because with Powerwall at or > near full and the house loads being met, thereâs nowhere for any > additional > solar generation to go. Powerwall will wait for its the state of charge > to > drop below 96-97 percent before shifting the frequency back to 60 Hz which > allows the PV system to restart and generate solar power again. This > frequency shifting can take place repeatedly over the course of the day > depending on load demands, solar potential and Powerwall state of charge > and is perfectly normal and does not damage the PV inverters.* > > *· **66 Hz and home appl
Re: [RE-wrenches] experience with the Tesla Powerwall
The AC powerwall has cooling, it is a liquid? Anyone know if the 5kw continuous and 7kw peak limits change with multiple units? Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 > I think that this may have come up before, but I do not remember there > being a resolution: > Do you guys have any tips on becoming a Tesla dealer? We have people ask > about it all the time, but we have not been able to get Tesla to respond. > We have installed Sonnen, which is also a great system, but the up front > expense scares many people away. We are located in upstate NY which may > have something to do with it. > > Cheers, > Dave > > > *--* > > > *Dave Tedeyan* > *Senior Engineer* > > *Taitem Engineering, PC* > 10 Verizon Lane, Lansing, NY 14882 > Voice: (607) 930-3481 x6 > www.taitem.com > > On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 10:36 AM, August Goers > wrote: > >> Marco, >> >> Thanks for sharing, it is good to hear details from an installer who is >> living with a Powerwall. We starting selling the Powerwall 2 in 2017 and >> have worked up a large pipeline. We have about 20 installed so far, but >> are >> still waiting on utility permission to operate which is taking a long >> time. >> We have spent a good deal of time commissioning and testing each system. >> For the most part, our experience has been good although the >> commissioning >> software and internet connectivity features have been buggy. Hopefully >> those are issues that will be ironed out by Tesla. Otherwise, we've had >> the >> systems correctly operate in on-grid and off-grid modes with both >> Solaredge >> and SunPower Equinox AC coupled systems. >> >> We installed conventional lead acid battery backup systems for over 10 >> years and I can confidently say that Tesla's Powerwall and Gateway setup >> is truly market-disruptive. The design flexibility of the Gateway setup, >> the small size, minimal labor to install, and performance blow other >> systems out of the water. I hope that other manufacturers are able to >> catch >> up with this type of design. >> >> Best, >> >> August >> >> *August Goers* >> >> Luminalt Energy Corporation >> >> o: 415.641.4000 <(415)%20641-4000> >> >> www.luminalt.com >> >> >> >> On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 12:23 PM, Marco Mangelsdorf >> >> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> *Aloha Wrenches,* >>> >>> >>> *I thought I'd share my own experiences with the Powerwall as my >>> company >>> is now launching a program to add PW to existing NEM systems since the >>> vast >>> majority of them do not have storage which means that if the grid goes >>> down, so does their PV system. (With the exception of the SMA SB line >>> and >>> their Secure Power Supply.)* >>> >>> >>> *And no, I'm not a shill or toadie for Tesla.* >>> >>> >>> *marco * >>> >>> *I wanted to walk my own talk. Before we launched adding Powerwall to >>> existing Net Energy Metered solar electric systems, I wanted to make >>> sure >>> that what was promised on paper would work in the real world. I added >>> Powerwall to my NEM system last year and have been monitoring and >>> testing >>> it during normal grid-on and grid outage modes. And Iâm very pleased >>> to >>> report that Powerwall has performed flawlessly and as expected.* >>> >>> >>> >>> *When used in a NEM system, Powerwall is programmed to be in >>> âBackupâ >>> mode. When utility power is on, Powerwall stands ready in a full state >>> of >>> charge for any power outage. During normal grid-on conditions, my >>> Powerall >>> takes about .6 kilowatt-hours every other day to stay fully charged. >>> Over >>> the course of the month, this Powerwallâs electricity consumption >>> comes to >>> about 9 kWhs or about $3/month at the current HELCO R rate.* >>> >>> >>> >>> *I have turned the utility power off to my home on a number of >>> occasions >>> in order to experience how Powerwall would perform in a simulated grid >>> outage. When the grid goes down, my house effectively becomes a >>> self-generating micro-grid. That is, my photovoltaic system (solar >>> modules >>> and inverters) and Powe
Re: [RE-wrenches] Powerwall and other Li
The things people spend money on and the reasons are so varied that dollar analysis is just part of the decision. It can be almost priceless to stay in your home after the utility goes off during a wildfire. Keeping the smoke out, the cool air inside, and not having to go to a shelter or motel are often tipping points. Earthquakes, named windstorms and widespread power outages all add in the decision. At the minimum, a propane or natural gas generator with a month+ of fuel supply. Towns that are evacuated often shut down the utility and then all the gas stations shut down. I could go on but if a client wants to be able to stay in their home, it is pretty easy these days. Add in the SGIP and Federal credits, and for some it is a no brainer! Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 > Hi Hilton, > > We've done the math for our installed cost on the Powerwall 2. Certainly, > it wouldn't make sense to purchase it just for energy savings alone with > current California residential electricity tariffs. However, most folks > are > buying it primarily for backup purposes and then a little bit of utility > savings is just icing on the cake or what storage folks are calling > "stacked benefits." The SGIP for many of our clients is over $5k per > Powerwall (now a little lower) and many clients are pairing with PV and > taking the 30% Fed tax credit. All in all, it is a very good deal. > > August > > On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 3:35 PM, Hilton Dier wrote: > >> Has anyone calculated a lifetime cost per stored and delivered kWh for >> any >> of these lithium battery systems? >> >> From the rough numbers Iâve come up with in the past it seems like >> daily >> cycling to avoid grid use would be a dead loss. The capital cost vs >> capacity and cycle life doesnât add up. >> >> Also, I know mentioning this is out of line per list etiquette, but >> could >> people refrain from including 20 preceding messages in their posts? I >> tend >> to read this on my phone and my scrolling finger is getting shorter. >> Thanks! >> >> Hilton >> >> Hilton Dier III >> Renewable Energy Design >> Missisquoi River Hydro LLC >> ___ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches. >> org/maillist.html >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Older iCel System Lithium Ion Batteries (Steve Higgins)
Same cells that Tesla uses! Type NMC lithium 18650's. > We found the Quick Charge Chargers to be the best deal for 48 v > chargers, otherwise the Iota is good for lower voltages > > https://quickcharge.com/ > > Ray Walters > > Remote Solar > > > On 2/16/18 4:04 PM, Gary Rochlin wrote: >> Hi Tom; >> >> Each battery consists of 7 pack of 16 Panasonic CGR 1865D batteries >> making >> up a 48V system from what I understand from Panasonic 1.5 kWh. The >> Panasonic tech mentioned he knew of the firm and gave me the name of one >> if >> the tech officers. I'm going to look him up and see if I can get some >> info >> from him. Going to purchase a 48V charger and test each battery to see >> if >> it hold a charge. Thank you for your input. >> >> >> Gary Rochlin / Managing Partner >> Blue Sky Energy >> g.roch...@blue-sky-energy.com >> 310.422.2908 >> >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On >> Behalf Of Tom Ruscitti >> Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2018 12:16 PM >> To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Older iCel System Lithium Ion Batteries >> (Steve >> Higgins) >> >> Some of my non-solar consulting involves test engineering for lithium >> ion >> materials development. I'm no expert but I do get to work with folks >> developing and testing cells and sit in on industry training and >> conferences >> now and then. I would discourage trying the jump start described here >> without direct guidance from the cell / battery manufacturer and a >> properly >> operating BMS. Li-ion batteries can be much less tolerant to over-charge >> and >> over-discharge than the lead acid we're used to working with in the >> solar >> business. Li-ion batteries require a strictly enforced minimum cutoff >> voltage. For example, the discharge cutoff for one recent client's >> battery >> is spec'd at 2.5V per cell. There can be damage to the anode If voltage >> falls below that. Also, if you try the jump-start on compromised packs >> with >> no BMS, different cells will charge at different rates due to differing >> internal resistance (one function of BMS is cell balancing). >> Over-charging >> can result in permanent capacity loss and also electrode damage. >> Depending >> on the chemistry this sort of damage can increase the risk of thermal >> events. >> I've heard that some BMS will prevent recharging if the minimum cell >> voltage >> limit has been busted, but no first hand experience myself. If you do a >> web >> search on "lithium ion damage over discharge" you'll see plenty of >> discussion. I tried to find specs on the iCel system but didn't find >> anything useful. >> >> be careful, >> >> Tom >> >> -- >> Tom Ruscitti >> Senior Engineer >> >> Taitem Engineering, PC >> 110 S. Albany Street, Ithaca, NY 14850 >> Mobile: (607) 220-7022 >> www.taitem.com >> >> ___ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List-Archive: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> >> ___ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List-Archive: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http:
Re: [RE-wrenches] experience with the Tesla Powerwall
Damaging a mini-split heat pump has happened from this at a home in Florida. Hard always to prove as anything connected to the grid can be surge damaged also. Fujitsu did pay the warranty repair but would not if it happened again. In cases where I have been approached to AC couple, I just recommend using the Schneider or Morningstar 600V controller and deselect the grid inverter solar/select the mppt. The battery inverter gets a programmed charge from the grid every 2 weeks and is ready to go drive the sub panel. Tesla says they are going to build an "offgrid" type battery which I assume to mean that it will not require AC coupling like the current models do. Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 > Hi Mac > > Thanks for mentioning this, Iâve wondered about it a lot. > Maybe someone whoâs a motor or electronics expert can chime in about > what potential damage can occur. Electronics, motors, VFDâs, are used to > seeing voltage +/- by a fair amount, but frequency is rarely off by more > than a fraction of a percent. > > > If the frequency shift is doing nothing more than turning the GT inverter > off ( no stepped regulation) then why do that vs relay? It still makes for > a 5 minute delay on restart, correct? > > Thx > Jay > > > > > >> On Feb 15, 2018, at 7:48 AM, Mac Lewis wrote: >> >> Hi Wrenches, >> >> I just wanted to report that some electronics will fail and burn up >> during frequency shift. We have an off-grid Sunny Island system (60-62 >> Hz operating frequency) and we experienced sensitive electronics burning >> up during these events. Its been too long since this happened to tell >> you exactly what burned up. I think it was some HVAC controls. >> >> If its possible, I'd suggest a relay that opens up the grid-tie inverter >> as opposed to waiting until frequency shift is necessary. A >> well-specified relay can be highly reliable and not very expensive. >> >> Thanks >> >>> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 11:26 AM, Glenn Burt >>> wrote: >>> An installer I have been working with here in southern VT has also >>> repeatedly applied to become an installer with Tesla for powerwalls >>> with no response. >>> I cannot in good conscience recommend their products based on their >>> history and unresponsiveness in our area. >>> They may be great for Puerto Rico, and now Australia, but have >>> currently rated a thumbs down here. We are happy with the sonnen >>> product, delivery and support. >>> >>> Glenn >>> Sent from my 'smart' phone so please excuse spelling and typographical >>> errors. >>> >>> -- Original message-- >>> From: Dave Tedeyan >>> Date: Tue, Feb 13, 2018 11:35 AM >>> To: RE-wrenches; >>> Cc: >>> Subject:Re: [RE-wrenches] experience with the Tesla Powerwall >>> >>> I think that this may have come up before, but I do not remember there >>> being a resolution: >>> Do you guys have any tips on becoming a Tesla dealer? We have people >>> ask about it all the time, but we have not been able to get Tesla to >>> respond. We have installed Sonnen, which is also a great system, but >>> the up front expense scares many people away. We are located in upstate >>> NY which may have something to do with it. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Dave >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Dave Tedeyan >>> Senior Engineer >>> >>> Taitem Engineering, PC >>> 10 Verizon Lane, Lansing, NY 14882 >>> Voice: (607) 930-3481 x6 >>> www.taitem.com >>> >>>> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 10:36 AM, August Goers >>>> wrote: >>>> Marco, >>>> >>>> Thanks for sharing, it is good to hear details from an installer who >>>> is living with a Powerwall. We starting selling the Powerwall 2 in >>>> 2017 and have worked up a large pipeline. We have about 20 installed >>>> so far, but are still waiting on utility permission to operate which >>>> is taking a long time. We have spent a good deal of time commissioning >>>> and testing each system. For the most part, our experience has been >>>> good although the commissioning software and internet connectivity >>>> features have been buggy. Hopefully those are issues that will be >>>> ironed out by Tesla. Otherwise, we've had the systems correctly >>
Re: [RE-wrenches] Li+ Systems Puerto Rico
LG has decided not to allow their 48V batteries to be used for offgrid. The 400V LG and Solar edge is too small to be useful for offgrid in my opinion and no warranty. I would add Discover battery to your LFP list. They communicate by canbus and Xanbus to Schneider XW and CSW gear. It is too bad about LG (or Tesla) as they were light and not too expensive Lithium type NMC chemistry. The other LFP Chemistry is much heavier and around $1,000 a usable KWH, or 4 times flooded LA. A hard sell at this time. I still am running the LG RESU10 XW power system and I attached a screen shot of how nice the Engineers at Schneider did making a simple power display with all the Offgrid data. I left out the Generator display as we do not need one here in the California Sierras. Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 > Greetings Wrenches; > > We are designing several systems for Puerto Rico, and while these will > eventually could be grid tied once the grid returns, they will need to > operate reliably in off grid mode possibly for a year or more. What is > everyone's experiences with the Storedge and LG setup? I've worked with > the regular Solaredge GT system and was quite impressed, but I've heard > the Storedge is not a good off grid option. What are the issues, and > has anyone used the Storedge in longer term outages? > > Right now we are designing some smaller systems that will use Magnum > inverters with 24v and 48 v Li+ batteries from other manufacturers, like > Simpliphi and LiFe Blue. ( No GT, Backup only) These are lower cost and > allow us to use more traditional off grid designs, but also have limited > charge and discharge current. In order to make Li+ cost effective, we > have had to reduce the storage size in half compared to lead acid. We > feel this is justifiable considering Li+'s ability to be discharged to > 100%, its voltage stability, and its higher efficiency. > > All feed back is welcome, as we venture into less well charted > territory. We just don't want to set up systems that are going to not > be functional in 5 to 8 years because of inferior AGM lead acid > batteries. We use HUP batteries for most larger off grid systems, but > these are not feasible because of their size and maintenance requirements. > > Thanks, > > Ray Walters > > Remote Solar > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Li+ Systems Puerto Rico
The Blue planet does not get its data into the Outback and Schneider web portals for remote monitoring. You have to have both the Blue Planet monitor and the Outback or Schneider monitor for the inverter data. They are nice batteries but still around $1,000 per usable kwh. Sony sold their LFP battery company a ways back. --Dave > Blue Planet - Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries are a good option for off > grid and work very well with the Outback Radian inverters. They are rated > at 8000 cycles (20+ years of daily cycling!!) to 100 depth of discharge > and > can be monitored remotely. The batteries , like in the Sonnen system are > made by Sony. > The company was just down in PR doing some installs and had some very good > feedback from local installers. > One more option for the tool bag. > Also, Outback just released a white paper on AC coupling using a solid > state relay into the Radian. So they are now providing some guidance on > this as of just recently. I still prefer DC coupling with grid tied mode > when the grid does come back around. > > > > Sunny Regards, > Kirpal Khalsa > Oregon LRT#25 > NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional > Oregon Solarworks LLC > www.oregonsolarworks.com > 541-299-0402 > > On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 11:14 AM, Ray wrote: > >> Greetings Wrenches; >> >> We are designing several systems for Puerto Rico, and while these will >> eventually could be grid tied once the grid returns, they will need to >> operate reliably in off grid mode possibly for a year or more. What is >> everyone's experiences with the Storedge and LG setup? I've worked with >> the regular Solaredge GT system and was quite impressed, but I've heard >> the >> Storedge is not a good off grid option. What are the issues, and has >> anyone used the Storedge in longer term outages? >> >> Right now we are designing some smaller systems that will use Magnum >> inverters with 24v and 48 v Li+ batteries from other manufacturers, like >> Simpliphi and LiFe Blue. ( No GT, Backup only) These are lower cost and >> allow us to use more traditional off grid designs, but also have limited >> charge and discharge current. In order to make Li+ cost effective, we >> have >> had to reduce the storage size in half compared to lead acid. We feel >> this >> is justifiable considering Li+'s ability to be discharged to 100%, its >> voltage stability, and its higher efficiency. >> >> All feed back is welcome, as we venture into less well charted >> territory. >> We just don't want to set up systems that are going to not be functional >> in >> 5 to 8 years because of inferior AGM lead acid batteries. We use HUP >> batteries for most larger off grid systems, but these are not feasible >> because of their size and maintenance requirements. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Ray Walters >> >> Remote Solar >> >> ___ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List-Archive: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.or >> g/maillist.html >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Li+ Systems Puerto Rico
ck out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Li+ Systems Puerto Rico
Test data is almost as important as will the company will still be there! That is why I was unhappy that LG Chem (huge company) has decided not to be a player for Offgrid. Oh well! Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 > Test data is important. If you check out most Li battery brands, they copy > each other: â2000 cycles with 80% remaining.â Like Clara Peller said > in 1984, â Whereâs the beef?â > > One brand of Li battery that we sell, LiFeBlue, has published actual test > data for their cells (Topband). At 1C rate and 100% DoD, they produced > over 2800 cycles and had 83% remaining capacity. Extrapolate to 8000 > cycles and that would mean 48.5% remaining capacity if degradation > remained linear. However, we are in fantasy land here due to the unknown > affects of battery aging on one hand and the fact that no one will use a > battery like that on the other. Besides, in a decade or so, will Li-ion > battery cost make lead batteries a relic? > > IMO, lead is deadâ¦or at least dyingâ¦slowly. > > Larry Crutcher > Starlight Solar Power Systems > > > > > On Feb 20, 2018, at 9:02 AM, Kirpal wrote: > > Larryyes those are big claims (8000 cyclces at 100% DOD!) No I don't > have the data showing that, nor have I seen it. But the marketing has to > be accurate right?! We have installed a few systems with a few more on > the books including one at our office. Will be interesting to see if the > real world matches the lab testsI don't have a copy of their warranty > but it is for 15 years and does allow for some degradation of capacity, > 70% remaining after 15 years. Pretty robust for a battery warranty! From > what I have seen they are a strong off grid option. Could be one of the > last battery banks some of our customers ever buy. The visibility into > cycle count and remaining capacity is refreshing after using various amp > hour meters which tend to wander in accuracy over time. I am looking > forward to the migration away from Lead Acid in the years ahead! > > > Sunny Regards, > Kirpal Khalsa > Oregon LRT#25 > NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional > Oregon Solarworks LLC > www.oregonsolarworks.com <http://www.oregonsolarworks.com/> > 541-299-0402___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Radian throughput power
You are missing the charging of the battery! That is where (your numbers) the 12KW - 8KW can go! Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 > Wrenches, > >          I spoke with tech support at Outback recently and > was told > the max output of the Radian at the output terminals is 8KW, even if > there is an external AC source connected to one of the AC IN terminals > of the Radian. > >          However, on page 18 of the GS8048 manual: "When it > (transfer relay) closes the L1 input and output terminals become > electrically common." ...same for L2 input and output. then, "the relay > contacts are limited to 55 amps per phase or leg". Since there is no 55 > amp circuit breaker to protect that relay a 50 amp 2 pole breaker would > be used. This means you would have 50A X 240 Vac (12KW) at the output > terminals, correct? > >          Am I missing something? Thanks, > > Bill > > Feather River Solar Electric > Bill Battagin, Owner > 4291 Nelson St. > Taylorsville, CA 95983 > 530.284.7849 > CA Lic 874049 > www.frenergy.net > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Testing AGMs
Load test and compare with another known good battery. I also steer away from AGM's. --Dave > Wrenches, > We have a client with a string of sealed L16s and he believes he may have > a weak or failed cell. > > Whatâs the best way to test or check these batteries, since there is no > electrolyte to draw out. > > We donât install many AGMs, in fact, steer the client away from them, > usually. > > > > > Jeremy Rodriguez > Solar Installation And > Design Expert > All Solar, Inc. > 1463 M St > Penrose Colorado 81240 > > Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand! > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] heating a lithium battery bank
Hello Daniel, I will give this some thought. What lithium make? The ones I have looked at log the temperature for warranty so that might negate the value a bit. The high temp is just as bad in your case here. Since this has been working well I am assuming snow on the panels is not an issue? Building a battery box that was cooled (small fan) from conditioned space is what I have done. The wall between the garage and living space is perfect. This won't help when the house is cold (unattended) much. It won't help if the house is allowed to get hot either. Some of the Lion batteries are actually listed for living space. The LG is. I don't do that with mine though. Hmmm Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 > Hello Wrenches, here is a fun one for you all. > > > > The client you all helped me with earlier this year is now considering > changing out their AGM off grid bank with a lithium battery bank before > the > next winter. I looked into this, as we have been eying the various lithium > options for 2+yrs now, but not bit the bullet and really designed a bank > into a system. > > > > The main issue I am trying to consider is this. The cabin is not occupied > during most of the winter, and the batteries are in the unconditioned, but > attached, garage. They drain the plumbing system and shut off all breakers > except the ones that power the internet, chest freezer, and security > system. > As such, the battery bank has routinely gotten below freezing, sometimes > staying there for 1-2 weeks. This is not an issue with AGM's, within > reason. > The battery bank has never gotten below 20F over the last 2 winters, where > the site has seen below zero temps for brief periods. But the AGMs likely > produce more heat during a charge than lithium's, and they have > significantly more thermal mass to ride through the really cold nights. > > > > Lithium batteries, to the best of my knowledge, can be below freezing > during > storage. But to safely charge, they must be above 32F. So the thought was > to > provide an insulated battery box, and design in some small heating system > that is set to 40-45F. The first thought was a low power fiberglass > heating > pad like is sometimes used for livestock to give them a slightly warmed > place to lay down. Then tie that to a thermostat with a sensor on the > battery bank. I would of course need to try to account for the extra load > in > the battery bank sizing. They array is more than is needed right now so I > do > not worry about it's ability to compensate when the sun is shining. > > > > In theory this could be ok, but I worry about the summer. Will the > insulated > enclosure cause the opposite issue during the summer, the batteries > getting > too hot? I have seen the AGM bank go to 110F at one point in Aug 2016. But > with the lower internal resistance of the lithium's, maybe this is less > likely to be an issue. Do any of you wrenches have any experience with > this > unconditioned setup? > > > > With Regards, > > > > Daniel Young, > > NABCEP Certified PV Installation ProfessionalTM: Cert #031508-90 > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback nano-carbons
Trojan was first with their nano-carbons. I did not see any difference in life with their 2V L16s for life at 3 clients. They might last longer but the jury is still out. They are about 7 years old at this time. --Dave > Wrenches, > > Anybody using Outback nano-carbons like the Energycell RE, in off-grid > residential applications. Whatâs the good, bad, and ugly with these. > > Thanks, > Michael Morningstar > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] heating a lithium battery bank
The LG RESU series will trip it's breaker at around 10% Soc. It will require a human unless the LVD on the inverter is set higher than the battery. Yes Sir it is our responsibility to educate our users or have plane tickets (: Will be installing the Discover battery soon into Xanbus. Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 > Hi Drake, > > I agree. Li-ion batteries, like lead batteries, should always have a human > overseer. This is a difficult reality to convey in our set-it-forget it, > automated world. > > One function of a Li-ion battery EMS or BMS is to prevent over discharge. > Once any battery cell reaches the lower limit, the battery will turn off. > For many systems, once charge current is again detected, the battery will > turn on. Some will not and require a user to turn the battery back on. You > can also install an external LVD device to stop power use at a higher SoC. > > As wrenches, its our responsibility to know our product and educate the > customer. Too often, this does not happen. > > Larry Crutcher > Starlight Solar Power Systems > > > > > > > On Feb 27, 2018, at 7:11 AM, drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org wrote: > > Snow on the array could be a very big problem with the heater load, > inverter idle current and anything else that might be left on. Extended > periods of heavy clouds can reduce power generation to be less than > system's internal losses. It seems like a pretty big gamble to leave an > expensive battery bank unattended, that can not go below freezing, and is > dependent on array power to prevent freezing. > > If AGMs survive in this application, it might be better to stay with this > technology. > > > - Original Message - > From: offgridso...@sti.net "RE-wrenches" > > To:"RE-wrenches" > Cc: > Sent:Mon, 26 Feb 2018 10:36:29 -0800 (PST) > Subject:Re: [RE-wrenches] heating a lithium battery bank > > > Hello Daniel, > > I will give this some thought. What lithium make? The ones I have looked > at log the temperature for warranty so that might negate the value a bit. > The high temp is just as bad in your case here. > > Since this has been working well I am assuming snow on the panels is not > an issue? > > Building a battery box that was cooled (small fan) from conditioned space > is what I have done. The wall between the garage and living space is > perfect. This won't help when the house is cold (unattended) much. It > won't help if the house is allowed to get hot either. > > Some of the Lion batteries are actually listed for living space. The LG > is. I don't do that with mine though. Hmmm > > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar > "we go where powerlines don't" > http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ > e-mail offgridso...@sti.net > text 209 813 0060 > >> Hello Wrenches, here is a fun one for you all. >> >> >> >> The client you all helped me with earlier this year is now considering >> changing out their AGM off grid bank with a lithium battery bank before >> the >> next winter. I looked into this, as we have been eying the various >> lithium >> options for 2+yrs now, but not bit the bullet and really designed a bank >> into a system. >> >> >> >> The main issue I am trying to consider is this. The cabin is not >> occupied >> during most of the winter, and the batteries are in the unconditioned, >> but >> attached, garage. They drain the plumbing system and shut off all >> breakers >> except the ones that power the internet, chest freezer, and security >> system. >> As such, the battery bank has routinely gotten below freezing, sometimes >> staying there for 1-2 weeks. This is not an issue with AGM's, within >> reason. >> The battery bank has never gotten below 20F over the last 2 winters, >> where >> the site has seen below zero temps for brief periods. But the AGMs >> likely >> produce more heat during a charge than lithium's, and they have >> significantly more thermal mass to ride through the really cold nights. >> >> >> >> Lithium batteries, to the best of my knowledge, can be below freezing >> during >> storage. But to safely charge, they must be above 32F. So the thought >> was >> to >> provide an insulated battery box, and design in some small heating >> system >> that is set to 40-45F. The first thought was a low power fiberglass >> heating >> pad like is sometimes used for livestock to give them a slightly warmed
Re: [RE-wrenches] heating a lithium battery bank
August, The current Tesla (AC coupled only) would be a challenge for sure! I do like the 13KWH for the price. I hope they do something as everything I have looked at beside the LG is over $1,000 (wholesale) per ueable KWH. Hope this changes. --Dave > As I mentioned on a related post, Tesla's Powerwall has an active heating > feature where it will use some of its own energy to raise cell > temperature. > Obviously this means that it will need to be charged throughout the cold > season using some amount of PV energy to do so (I think I heard 250 Wh per > heating cycle depending on temps?). I understand that Tesla's offgrid > Powerwall isn't ready for prime time yet. > > August > > *August Goers* > > Luminalt Energy Corporation > > > On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 8:55 AM, Bill Hoffer wrote: > >> Daniel >> >> Why are we having to deal with low temp charging? Litium batteries >> already have cell temp monitoring and relays to shut down individual >> cells >> when they over temp. How hard would it be to open the relay at low >> temps >> too? Seems like something the lithium battery folks should have already >> thought of? >> >> Bill hoffer >> >> >> On Feb 28, 2018 8:15 AM, "Daniel Young" >> wrote: >> >> These issues are not lost on me for sure. I have to plan out a new >> protective setup to try to ensure that if the temperatures drop and the >> battery bank hits LVD, that the array cannot just charge the battery >> back >> up >> on it's own. Possibly some sort of temperature dependent relay or shunt >> trip >> breaker on the battery bank to ensure that below 35F the battery must be >> manually warmed to resume operation, or the system waits until the >> battery >> warms on it's own before allowing the CC's or even a generator to charge >> them. >> >> My understanding is that the lithium's can go below freezing easily, but >> they just cannot be charged when below freezing. They can sit down to >> -5F >> if >> not being charged, they can even be under discharge down to that in some >> cases. But adding controls to allow discharge, but not charge is likely >> a >> bit too much, best to just isolate the battery bank if below 32-35F in >> my >> opinion, which is what I plan to try to accomplish. >> >> Ideally someone is there to watch the batteries, but that simply is not >> an >> option. And the client is not likely to want a new AGM bank. But they >> will >> have to decide between the pro's and con's. All I can do is give them >> the >> info, and the choice. >> >> With Regards, >> >> Daniel Young, >> NABCEP Certified PV Installation ProfessionalTM: Cert #031508-90 >> >> -Original Message- >> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On >> Behalf Of Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar >> Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2018 1:14 PM >> To: RE-wrenches >> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] heating a lithium battery bank >> >> The LG RESU series will trip it's breaker at around 10% Soc. It will >> require >> a human unless the LVD on the inverter is set higher than the battery. >> Yes >> Sir it is our responsibility to educate our users or have plane tickets >> (: >> >> Will be installing the Discover battery soon into Xanbus. >> >> Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar >> "we go where powerlines don't" >> http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ >> e-mail offgridso...@sti.net >> text 209 813 0060 >> >> > Hi Drake, >> > >> > I agree. Li-ion batteries, like lead batteries, should always have a >> > human overseer. This is a difficult reality to convey in our >> > set-it-forget it, automated world. >> > >> > One function of a Li-ion battery EMS or BMS is to prevent over >> discharge. >> > Once any battery cell reaches the lower limit, the battery will turn >> off. >> > For many systems, once charge current is again detected, the battery >> > will turn on. Some will not and require a user to turn the battery >> > back on. You can also install an external LVD device to stop power use >> at >> a higher SoC. >> > >> > As wrenches, its our responsibility to know our product and educate >> > the customer. Too often, this does not happen. >> > >> > Larry Crutcher >> > Starlight Solar Power Systems >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >
Re: [RE-wrenches] Conext Insight Portal issues
Kevin, I always thought you were Maverick? I attached a sreen shot from insight. I use it every day on about 15 systems that I "house sit". There always is a delay of up to 18 minutes or so. I have not had any problems and so I would say it is on your end. Try another computer and make sure all the firmware is up to date. Look at the combox events page and see if something is not right. It should reboot every night just after 3 am. Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 > I hadnât noticed, but I also hadnât been cross checking. I can compare > a couple sites to see if it is happening here. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Mar 9, 2018, at 12:55 PM, Kevin Pegg >> wrote: >> >> Hello Wrenches, >> >> I am curious if others out there are using the Conext Insight Portal to >> monitor Schneider-based systems? >> >> I have been using this portal for a while now. When it works I find it >> very useful and fast to have a quick snapshot of system status. Lots >> faster than having to log into individual systems. >> >> However, recently the portal data has been very unreliable, and tech >> support is generally dismissive of my concerns. At present state, about >> half of my customer sites are displaying completely inaccurate >> information. At first glance there is nothing wildly abnormal about the >> data so you might think it is ok. Except it is all wrong it is as if it >> is displaying another site. I have submitted details of my findings to >> tech support, and to date they have not accepted that this is a problem. >> This started on March 7th. Some customers are getting irritated now. >> >> Curious if others are using this system and if you have had any similar >> issues. Which you may not notice unless you do the direct comparison >> between combox or other live data and portal data. >> >> Kevin >> >> ___ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List-Archive: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Li+ Systems Puerto Rico
I would like to see how they determine the number of cycles, or the Life left in the battery? --Dave > > > DarrelI put a request to allow the data to be released, expect to have an > answer soonJerry > > > Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone > > Original message > From: Darryl Thayer > Date: 2/21/18 10:28 AM (GMT-10:00) > To: RE-wrenches > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Li+ Systems Puerto Rico > > Jerry, can we see the egauge results? > On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 11:59 PM, Jerry Shafer > wrote: > WrenchesWe have been doing testing on the Blue Ion over the last several > months, we have been using PV, back up grid connected charger, we have > CT's on DC in, PV in, Charger in, and Load out, some days we push to three > cycles a day, other days 1/2 cycle. The Blue Ion BMU has done well keeping > everything in control including a relay for the charger. Eguage has done > all the monitoring and has some impressive data. Jerry > On Feb 20, 2018 6:02 AM, "Kirpal" wrote: > Larryyes those are big claims (8000 cyclces at 100% DOD!) No I don't > have the data showing that, nor have I seen it. But the marketing has to > be accurate right?! We have installed a few systems with a few more on > the books including one at our office. Will be interesting to see if the > real world matches the lab testsI don't have a copy of their warranty > but it is for 15 years and does allow for some degradation of capacity, > 70% remaining after 15 years. Pretty robust for a battery warranty! > From what I have seen they are a strong off grid option. Could be one of > the last battery banks some of our customers ever buy. The visibility > into cycle count and remaining capacity is refreshing after using various > amp hour meters which tend to wander in accuracy over time. I am looking > forward to the migration away from Lead Acid in the years ahead! > > Sunny Regards, > Kirpal KhalsaOregon LRT#25 > NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional > Oregon Solarworks LLC > www.oregonsolarworks.com > 541-299-0402 > > On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 4:08 PM, Starlight Solar Power Systems > wrote: > Hi Kirpal, > â...8000 cycles (20+ years of daily cycling!!) to 100 depth of > dischargeâ¦â I saw that on their website but there is > no substantiating data from real cycle life tests. When Sony introduced > this battery, they claimed 2000 cycles at 80% DoD. For such > an extraordinary claim, there must be a catch. Do you have any > information about testing or a copy of their warranty? > > Larry Crutcher > Starlight Solar Power Systems > > > > > > > > > On Feb 19, 2018, at 4:10 PM, Kirpal wrote: > > > Blue Planet - Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries are a good option for off > grid and work very well with the Outback Radian inverters. They are > rated at 8000 cycles (20+ years of daily cycling!!) to 100 depth of > discharge and can be monitored remotely. The batteries , like in the > Sonnen system are made by > Sony.___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Conext Insight Portal issues
I just do offgrid systems and so all I want to see was did the system finish charge yesterday, go to float, and the current load. If the site shows up on my map and everything is green, I am happy. What else are you looking for please? --Dave > I think my issue was the particular tech rep I was attempting to work > with. I resubmitted my case and got a new rep who's first response was: > > "I'm really sorry about the insight issues. There were major system > updates done on the system last week which might have caused some data > issues. The server team is investigating and I will keep you informed of > the progress. If you can export a chart from one of the comboxes which > does not match the insight data that would help us greatly. > > So I am working with them sending data showing the discrepancies between > live data on the combox and the slightly delayed data on the portal. > > I urge any wrenches who are relying on the Insight portal presently to > verify the data you are seeing is in fact correct. Right now about 1/2 the > sites I monitor are incorrect. > > Kevin > > -Original Message- > From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On > Behalf Of Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar > Sent: March-09-18 1:16 PM > To: RE-wrenches > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Conext Insight Portal issues > > Kevin, > > I always thought you were Maverick? I attached a sreen shot from > insight. > I use it every day on about 15 systems that I "house sit". > > There always is a delay of up to 18 minutes or so. I have not had any > problems and so I would say it is on your end. Try another computer and > make sure all the firmware is up to date. Look at the combox events page > and see if something is not right. It should reboot every night just > after > 3 am. > > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar > "we go where powerlines don't" > http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ > e-mail offgridso...@sti.net > text 209 813 0060 > > > >> I hadnââ¬â¢t noticed, but I also hadnââ¬â¢t been cross checking. I >> can >> compare a couple sites to see if it is happening here. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Mar 9, 2018, at 12:55 PM, Kevin Pegg >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hello Wrenches, >>> >>> I am curious if others out there are using the Conext Insight Portal >>> to monitor Schneider-based systems? >>> >>> I have been using this portal for a while now. When it works I find >>> it very useful and fast to have a quick snapshot of system status. >>> Lots faster than having to log into individual systems. >>> >>> However, recently the portal data has been very unreliable, and tech >>> support is generally dismissive of my concerns. At present state, >>> about half of my customer sites are displaying completely inaccurate >>> information. At first glance there is nothing wildly abnormal about >>> the data so you might think it is ok. Except it is all wrong it is as >>> if it is displaying another site. I have submitted details of my >>> findings to tech support, and to date they have not accepted that this >>> is a problem. >>> This started on March 7th. Some customers are getting irritated now. >>> >>> Curious if others are using this system and if you have had any >>> similar issues. Which you may not notice unless you do the direct >>> comparison between combox or other live data and portal data. >>> >>> Kevin >>> >>> ___ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List-Archive: >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillis >>> t.html >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >> ___ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List-Archive: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist >> .html >> >> List rul
Re: [RE-wrenches] Electric Water kWh/ person
And a big maybe for Offgrid where we like multiple ways to charge/heat/cool and make hot water. The default method is almost always the most reliable. For a typical home a 50 gallon propane tank water heater with a zinc change every 7 years is the norm. An air to water heat pump, an open loop solar water panel or closed loop if conditions warrant it are great secondary methods. To me heating water with electricity does not work because of winter and is a last thing to add.A tankless and their issues are near the end of the list. Ground source heat pumps are even lower to me with very nice prices on extremely efficient mini split air source pumps. I always try and minimize generators but if you need them then it allows one to have more options. Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 > Maybe. I designed my own house to incorporate this. The most efficient are > the vertical type, and at 6' the company advertised 20% recovery for about > $1,300 if I remember correctly. This I'm sure is for a new copper pipe, > and > anyone who's ever taken apart a sewer pipe after a few years will know all > pipes get a bacterial mat of a couple mm thick. I suspect this might be a > pretty good insulator. At any rate there is a whole lot of copper involved > and associated inherent environmental challenges. I can't help but think > for the house design challenge to accommodate such a long perfectly > vertical pipe and expense another kW or more of solar would offset more > energy. > > On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 9:50 AM, Drake > > wrote: > >> Daniel, >> >> That sounds like an intriguing technology, much along the lines of an >> air >> to air heat exchanger. Thanks for the recommendation. These systems >> could >> keep a lot of CO2 out of the atmosphere if widely used. >> >> Drake >> >> >> At 10:09 AM 3/19/2018, you wrote: >> >> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; >> boundary="=_NextPart_000_0077_01D3BF6A.5EF88420" >> Content-Language: en-us >> >> >> Drake, >> >> Have you or the client looked into the drainwater heat recovery units? >> They make both a vertical and horizontal mounted version. They just help >> recover the waste heat from shower water going down the drain. >> >> My understanding is that economically they are barely past the breakeven >> point when considering offsetting grid power. If using PV costs as the >> benchmark, the economics would be better. If somehow this is off grid, >> then >> Iâd say itâs a home run. (Hopefully though this is not an >> all-electric >> off-grid building.) >> >> The main benefit, as far as I understand it, is that you can get by with >> a >> smaller unit, with a smaller heating element to perform the same task, >> OR >> you can get much longer showers from the same sized unit. Depending on >> the >> clients goals, this might be a useful tool to bring into the situation. >> >> Here are two brand names that I know of. >> Vertical mount: renewability >> Horizontal mount: ecodrain >> >> I have not used these products, so I cannot endorse any of them, just >> though it may be worth consideration. >> >> With Regards, >> >> Daniel Young, >> NABCEP Certified PV Installation ProfessionalTM: Cert #031508-90 >> >> *From:* RE-wrenches *On >> Behalf Of *Drake >> *Sent:* Thursday, March 15, 2018 1:00 PM >> *To:* RE-wrenches >> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Electric Water kWh/ person >> >> This discussion has been a great help. The house is built and the >> plumbing >> is in, but could be modified. Wood stoves are not a likely solution. I >> think we need a different water heating strategy. >> >> Thank you all! >> >> Drake >> >> >> >> At 09:21 AM 3/15/2018, you wrote: >> >> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; >> boundary="EE4E9806B711DEF636076840" >> Content-Language: en-US >> >> This is what I came up with: >> >> The calculation is Q = mcp delta T >> >> Water Temp out =Ã 120 >> >> Water Temp in = ground source Temperature @ 50F? >> >> delta T = 70F >> >> m =Ã mass flow rate.Ã ASHRAE is the source for this. 20gals per >> person >> per day = 20 gallons x 8.34 lbs/gallon =Ã 167lbs/day/person >> >> cp =Ã 1 BTU/lb-degree F >> >> Q = 167 x 1 x 70 = 11,676 BTU/day/person >> >> Divide this by the efficie
Re: [RE-wrenches] Electric Water kWh/ person
Chris, For Offgrid with minerals in the well water, getting the right flow, the maintenance that is just not there with a tank heater. Tankless are great for many but if you do add an open loop solar water panel, you need a tank Just not worth it in places like the south west where there is abundant sunshine. Offgrid in remote places where service is questionable or unavailable, we go with the most reliable. I steer them that way for other reasons also.. Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 > What are the issues with tankless water heaters? I have heard them > described as having "issues", but I haven't read anything that describes > what they are. They are very popular where I live. Any info? Thanks, > Chris > > > On 3/20/2018 1:07 PM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar wrote: >> And a big maybe for Offgrid where we like multiple ways to >> charge/heat/cool and make hot water. The default method is almost always >> the most reliable. For a typical home a 50 gallon propane tank water >> heater with a zinc change every 7 years is the norm. >> >> An air to water heat pump, an open loop solar water panel or closed loop >> if conditions warrant it are great secondary methods. To me heating >> water >> with electricity does not work because of winter and is a last thing to >> add.A tankless and their issues are near the end of the list. Ground >> source heat pumps are even lower to me with very nice prices on >> extremely >> efficient mini split air source pumps. >> >> I always try and minimize generators but if you need them then it allows >> one to have more options. >> >> Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar >> "we go where powerlines don't" >> http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ >> e-mail offgridso...@sti.net >> text 209 813 0060 >> >>> Maybe. I designed my own house to incorporate this. The most efficient >>> are >>> the vertical type, and at 6' the company advertised 20% recovery for >>> about >>> $1,300 if I remember correctly. This I'm sure is for a new copper pipe, >>> and >>> anyone who's ever taken apart a sewer pipe after a few years will know >>> all >>> pipes get a bacterial mat of a couple mm thick. I suspect this might be >>> a >>> pretty good insulator. At any rate there is a whole lot of copper >>> involved >>> and associated inherent environmental challenges. I can't help but >>> think >>> for the house design challenge to accommodate such a long perfectly >>> vertical pipe and expense another kW or more of solar would offset more >>> energy. >>> >>> On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 9:50 AM, Drake >>> >>> wrote: >>>> Daniel, >>>> >>>> That sounds like an intriguing technology, much along the lines of an >>>> air >>>> to air heat exchanger. Thanks for the recommendation. These systems >>>> could >>>> keep a lot of CO2 out of the atmosphere if widely used. >>>> >>>> Drake >>>> >>>> >>>> At 10:09 AM 3/19/2018, you wrote: >>>> >>>> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; >>>> boundary="=_NextPart_000_0077_01D3BF6A.5EF88420" >>>> Content-Language: en-us >>>> >>>> >>>> Drake, >>>> >>>> Have you or the client looked into the drainwater heat recovery units? >>>> They make both a vertical and horizontal mounted version. They just >>>> help >>>> recover the waste heat from shower water going down the drain. >>>> >>>> My understanding is that economically they are barely past the >>>> breakeven >>>> point when considering offsetting grid power. If using PV costs as the >>>> benchmark, the economics would be better. If somehow this is off grid, >>>> then >>>> Iââ¬â¢d say itââ¬â¢s a home run. (Hopefully though this is not >>>> an >>>> all-electric >>>> off-grid building.) >>>> >>>> The main benefit, as far as I understand it, is that you can get by >>>> with >>>> a >>>> smaller unit, with a smaller heating element to perform the same task, >>>> OR >>>> you can get much longer showers from the same sized unit. Depending on >>>> the >>>> clients goals, this might be a us
Re: [RE-wrenches] rail less standing seam attachments
Hi Jay, It is a big mistake to do this if ground mounting is an option. I do not believe the engineering over time. Nuff said by me! Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 > HI All, > > Iâve got a client who is set on wanting to do rail less racking. Iâm > just working with him on overall design, hes doing the work. > > Its not a large system. 16 modules on two roof orientations, ( 4 on one, > 12 on the other) with offset modules. Standing metal seam roof that is > being installed with solar in mind, lots of fasteners. > > Hes very competent and pays attention to details. > > Any positive/negative recommendations. > > thanks in advance, > > jay > > peltz power > > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Clearance clarification please
It always depends on who you are working with ! Because of you folks putting solar panels on roofs, I have had a few fire Captains ask about clearances on ground mounted trackers:( Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 > Darryl: > > > > If you are talking about California, I must respectfully disagree. If you > are not talking about California, I am ignorant. > > > > California Fire Code, 2016 version, states the following for group R-3 > buildings (which I am fairly certain includes single family homes). This > includes provisions for pitched roofs. Upon first reading, I do not see > any improvements over the previous version (2012) except that it appears > clearance from valleys has reduced from 36â to 18â. > > > > These regulations are implemented by local fire Marshalls in California > (sometimes the same person as the Chief, sometimes not). This gives the > Marshalls complete discretion. I have had good luck negotiating with > Marshalls and finding good compromises. > > > > Excerpt from 2016 California fire code. > > > > *605.11.1.1 Roof access points. Roof access points* > > *shall be located in areas that do not require the placement* > > *of ground ladders over openings such as windows* > > *or doors, and located at strong points of building construction* > > *in locations where the access point does not* > > *conflict with overhead obstructions such as tree limbs,* > > *wires or signs.* > > > > *605.11.1.2 Solar photovoltaic systems for Group R-3* > > *buildings. Solar photovoltaic systems for Group R-3* > > *buildings shall comply with Sections 605.11.1.2.1* > > *through 605.11.1.2.5.* > > *Exception: These requirements shall not apply to* > > *structures designed and constructed in accordance* > > *with the California Residential Code.* > > *605.11.1.2.1 Size of solar photovoltaic array. Each* > > *photovoltaic array shall be limited to 150 feet (45* > > *720 mm) by 150 feet (45 720 mm). Multiple arrays* > > *shall be separated by a 3-foot-wide (914 mm) clear* > > *access pathway.* > > *605.11.1.2.2 Hip roof layouts. Panels and modules* > > *installed on Group R-3 buildings with hip roof layouts* > > *shall be located in a manner that provides a 3-* > > *foot-wide (914 mm) clear access pathway from the* > > *eave to the ridge on each roof slope where panels* > > *and modules are located. The access pathway shall* > > *be at a location on the building capable of supporting* > > *the fire fighters accessing the roof.* > > *Exception: These requirements shall not apply to* > > *roofs with slopes of two units vertical in 12 units* > > *horizontal (2:12) or less.* > > *605.11.1.2.3 Single-ridge roofs. Panels and modules* > > *installed on Group R-3 buildings with a single* > > *ridge shall be located in a manner that provides two,* > > *3-foot-wide (914 mm) access pathways from the* > > *eave to the ridge on each roof slope where panels* > > *and modules are located.* > > *Exception: This requirement shall not apply to* > > *roofs with slopes of two units vertical in 12 units* > > *horizontal (2:12) or less.* > > *605.11.1.2.4 Roofs with hips and valleys. Panels* > > *and modules installed on Group R-3 buildings with* > > *roof hips and valleys shall not be located closer than* > > *18 inches (457 mm) to a hip or a valley where panels/* > > *modules are to be placed on both sides of a hip or* > > *valley. Where panels are to be located on only one* > > *side of a hip or valley that is of equal length, the* > > *panels shall be permitted to be placed directly adjacent* > > *to the hip or valley.* > > *Exception: These requirements shall not apply to* > > *roofs with slopes of two units vertical in 12 units* > > *horizontal (2:12) or less.* > > *605.11.1.2.5 Allowance for smoke ventilation* > > *operations. Panels and modules installed on Group* > > *R-3 buildings shall be located not less than 3 feet* > > *(914 mm) from the ridge** in order to allow for fire* > > *department smoke ventilation operations.* > > *Exception: Panels and modules shall be permitted* > > *to be located up to the roof ridge where an* > > *alternative ventilation method approved by the* > > *fire chief has been provided or where the fire* > > *chief has determined vertical ventilation techniques* > > *will not be employed.* > > *605.11.1.2.6 Locations of DC conductors. Conduit,* > > *wiring systems, and raceways for photovoltaic cir
Re: [RE-wrenches] Fast recharge times for Discover, Schneider and Outback
I see 10 year warranty and 38 Megawatts in their warranty below. http://discoverbattery.com/resources/view/discover-aes-warranty-policy > Their website has absolutely no information on cycle life, I find that > very > strange. > > On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 11:49 AM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar < > offgridso...@sti.net> wrote: > >> Discover battery is using Schneider Xanbus and soon Outback comms to >> improve recharge times fro their LFP batteries. I have been very happy >> with the results for a few clients. Just thought I would post the good >> results. Might save you guys some generator run times! >> >> http://discoverbattery.com/news-media/discover- >> collaborates-with-schneider-electric-solar-to-offer- >> closed-loop?utm_source=Discover+Newsletter&utm_campaign=a032e7dcfc-EMAIL_ >> CAMPAIGN_2018_04_10&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_bebb7cd5e3-a032e7dcfc- >> 174360841 >> >> >> >> Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar >> "we go where powerlines don't" >> http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ >> e-mail offgridso...@sti.net >> text 209 813 0060 >> ___ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches. >> org/maillist.html >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> >> > > > -- > *Will White* > Curriculum Developer > > [image: Inline image 3] > > e: w...@solarenergy.org > w: www.solarenergy.org > p: 802-272-3092 > > PV Installation Professional > # 093006-34 > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Fast recharge times for Discover, Schneider and Outback
The seminar that AEE had claimed unlimited cycles for 4 years. The data I saw (and I will try to find it) was as good as the others. About 6 to 8 thousand cycles and if you discharge 30% daily, it will take 3 days to equal one cycle. I may be mixing this up so when I find it I will be back, after I finish the work part > Their website has absolutely no information on cycle life, I find that > very > strange. > > On Wed, Apr 11, 2018 at 11:49 AM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar < > offgridso...@sti.net> wrote: > >> Discover battery is using Schneider Xanbus and soon Outback comms to >> improve recharge times fro their LFP batteries. I have been very happy >> with the results for a few clients. Just thought I would post the good >> results. Might save you guys some generator run times! >> >> http://discoverbattery.com/news-media/discover- >> collaborates-with-schneider-electric-solar-to-offer- >> closed-loop?utm_source=Discover+Newsletter&utm_campaign=a032e7dcfc-EMAIL_ >> CAMPAIGN_2018_04_10&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_bebb7cd5e3-a032e7dcfc- >> 174360841 >> >> >> >> Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar >> "we go where powerlines don't" >> http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ >> e-mail offgridso...@sti.net >> text 209 813 0060 >> ___ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches. >> org/maillist.html >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> >> > > > -- > *Will White* > Curriculum Developer > > [image: Inline image 3] > > e: w...@solarenergy.org > w: www.solarenergy.org > p: 802-272-3092 > > PV Installation Professional > # 093006-34 > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Fast recharge times for Discover, Schneider and Outback
The Discover warranty is an excellent source for those who want to learn about how to damage and not to damage an LFP battery bank! If the bank is designed and reasonably used, it could outlive many of us! http://discoverbattery.com/resources/view/discover-aes-warranty-policy Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Mounting on rock
Might as well put an 8" pole and an Array Technology AZ250 single axis tracker on:) Living offgrid in the cat bird seat! > Thanks everyone. Sounds like most have had the opportunity to do this. I > can't believe that in the Colorado mountains this is the first time I am > running into this situation in 12 years of business. I'm excited to see > how it works. A concrete pad for the anchor plate will work out > perfectly. I appreciate all the advice and so promptly. This list is such > a great resource! > > Aaron Mandelkorn > President / Founder > Renewable Energy Outfitters > www.reosolar.com > Off Grid Depot > www.offgridnow.com > 970-596-3744 > > > > On Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 11:16 AM James Jefferson Jarvis > wrote: > >> On 04/12/2018 08:53 AM, Aaron Mandelkorn wrote: >> > Thanks all. The flange plate was what I was thinking. It may be to >> > difficult to level a ballast mounting roof system. Engineering may be >> > a little difficult I assume? >> No, engineering is easy. If it is unbroken it should be at least as >> strong as concrete. The epoxy in anchors will work. If the rock is not >> perfectly level you can do a thin concrete pad on top of the rock to >> make a flat spot to bolt to. Drill the anchors through the concrete >> leveling pad and into the rock. >> >> I love anchoring to rock. It's free and not going anywhere! >> >> -James Jarvis >> APRS World, LLC >> ___ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List-Archive: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Ibew is working to exclude C-46 contractorâs from installing Batteries.
I simply hire a C10 if I need one to finish a job. Most of the time, C10's hire me:) 40+ years of electrical engineering is a great equalizer! FRIDAY ! Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 > Friends: > > I tell any prospective employee that in order to become a solar > electrician, > one must first be a qualified electrician. I am convinced of this point. > Being a solar electrician adds much complexity on top of the traditional > trade. > > However, not all electricians are good electricians. There is a lot of > shoddy work being done out there. In fact there is only one electrician > in > my area I will refer to. > > I am not opposed to the fundamentals of organized labor, but while working > as a union represented worker, I saw union management manipulate > situations > to benefit themselves over the worker and the employer. A lot of solar > installers are not big-box but rather mom and pop style shops. IBEW moves > appear to be intended to crush the small competitors, and that is not > right > with me. > > I agree we need a means to ensure good, safe installations. NABCEP seems > to > have no teeth in enforcing standards-- I have never been required to > produce > a certification. The only method in place now-- and it is spotty-- is > through building permitting and inspections. I put my energy into > educating > local inspectors. > > Sorry to those C-46 holders out there, but in my opinion, if you don't > hold > a license to be an electrician, you shouldnât be working as an > electrician. > > William Miller > > > Lic 773985 > millersolar.com > 805-438-5600 > > -Original Message- > From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On > Behalf Of Jason Andrade > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2018 6:03 PM > To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Ibew is working to exclude C-46 contractorâs from > installing Batteries. > > Hi at this point I believe this is a California only issue, but I was > contacted by CalSeia today and was asked to be involved in a discussion > regarding a move where only a C-10 contractor can install a battery based > system This was news to me but they sent me a pdf outlining the issue and > I > will read it over this weekend has anyone else heard about this? > My instant response is what special training does the c10 have that the > c46 > doesnât ? > Jason Andrade > West Coast Sustainables > > Sent from my iPhone > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] 3-phase with storage
I do not want to sound like I am plugging Discover AES batteries and there use with Schneider and soon Outback. There web page has a 3 phase XW+ system on it and all the coms built in to the BMS to work with Xanbus. AEE had a webinar also last week. It is on their U-tube channel. Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 > Aloha all. > > I'm on the hunt for workable options for a PV plus storage design for a > 3-phase 120/208 application. > > And there ain't much out there at present. > > Any suggestions would be appreciated. > > mahalo, > marco > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] 3-phase with storage
The 2 Lithium batteries I use are HALT tested but it is always a big risk with a battery that may out live many of the clients. The math on these batteries has them lasting 30 to 40 years offgrid and that is pretty hard to believe! Will the BMS fail or the battery? If they can afford it I have them do both chemistries! Add a second inverter and a lithium bank. They get power redundancy and the efficiency is really amazing to someone living offgrid. Especially in winter of course! >From a single Conext XW+ unit to clusters up to 102 kW, the Conext XW+ is a scalable system that allows for the integration of solar capacity as required. I like Sunny also:) Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 > We are building a similar system presently, 60 kW Sunny Island Inverters, > 400 kWh battery storage (FLA), dual 100 kW backup generators, 25 kW PV, 5 > kW microhydro. > > Don't know what raw capacity you are looking for, we also use XW inverters > for smaller systems but find they don't scale nearly as well as SMA for > larger power needs. > > I'd like to go with Lithium battery tech but it still looks like pricing > is still 2-3x Flooded Lead Acid and my clients don't tend to want to be on > the bleeding edge more looking for field proven reliability. > > Kevin > > From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On > Behalf Of Marco Mangelsdorf > Sent: April-17-18 10:48 AM > To: RE-wrenches > Subject: [RE-wrenches] 3-phase with storage > > Aloha all. > I'm on the hunt for workable options for a PV plus storage design for a > 3-phase 120/208 application. > And there ain't much out there at present. > Any suggestions would be appreciated. > mahalo, > marco > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Looking for insulated #6 bare standoff
Why is it #6? Usually the solar panels wire size determine Array Teks size for this wiring. What do they say please? --Dave > How about an insulated loop clamp like this one: > https://www.fastenal.com/products/details/0216763 > > You can get them in stainless and they have the rubber grommet so it won't > touch the rack. > > On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 12:00 PM, Dana wrote: > >> Good Morning Wrenches, >> >> >> >> I am required to keep the bare #6 copper from touching the aluminum >> frame >> work of a Array Technologies tracker where it is not mechanically >> connected >> by a pass-through ground clamp on a tracking array [dissimilar metals] >> and >> am looking for a lead on an insulated standoff or strap to hold the #6 >> bare >> copper as it passes from panel to panel and rail to rail. The plans >> examiner would accept pass through clamps & this is a worst case-spendy >> solution to this. >> >> >> >> I have searched the inquired at local electrical warehouse &on the >> internet and to no avail under âinsulated strapâ & âinsulated >> cable >> standoffâ. >> >> >> >> Has anyone else encountered his & what did you use? Where did you source >> this strap? >> >> >> >> I remember seeing something like this in the fuzzy past & cannot recall >> where I saw it or what it was for. >> >> >> >> Thanks for any suggestions. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. >> >> *C - 208.721.7003 d...@solarwork.com >> * >> >> Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 >> >> NABCEP # 051112-136 www.solarwork.biz >> >> *"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" * >> >> *P* Please consider the environment before printing this email. >> >> >> >> >> >> ___ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches. >> org/maillist.html >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> >> > > > -- > *Will White* > Curriculum Developer > > [image: Inline image 3] > > e: w...@solarenergy.org > w: www.solarenergy.org > p: 802-272-3092 > > PV Installation Professional > # 093006-34 > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Looking for insulated #8 bare standoff
Dana, sometimes I virtual track if I think that city hall is going to be a problem. Virtual tracking also has better wind/snow loads on Mountains and easier with the crazy requirements in hurricane zones. Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 > According to our state plans examiner; all modules, module rails shall be > bonded. The array Tech tracker is not on their approved list of > self-grounding racks. It is a 3-4 product list. Initially I was told I was > going to have to remove the trackers. Since then they have mellowed a > bit. > > > > We live in a narrow canyon & that extra 32% makes a significant difference > in Nov-Feb. We did not have to run the generator once this winter & never > went below 89% full. > > Tracking really does not pencil out with todays price of modules. In tight > canyons, with narrow winter windows and a lack of array mounting space > make trackers an excellent choice. I am not an advocate of roof mounted PV > in snow country in general though thatâs where most of it goes. > > There is something that is sexy about trackers too, they are like a magnet > for interested clients. > > > > Thanks for the suggestions folks I ordered the insulated loop clamps. > > > > > > Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. > > C - 208.721.7003 d...@solarwork.com > > Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 > > NABCEP # 051112-136<http://www.solarwork.biz> > www.solarwork.biz > > "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" > > P Please consider the environment before printing this email. > > > > > > From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of > whitley forman > Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2018 3:23 PM > To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Looking for insulated #6 bare standoff > > > > You should not have to run a EGC/GEC along the with Array Technologies. > When I have installed these in the past we always mechanically bond within > the bicinity of the conduit or box we are running our wiring through. No > need to non-mechanically attach anywhere. > > > > Whitley Forman > > Bannon Specialty Electric Systems > > whit...@bannonses.com <mailto:whit...@bannonses.com> > > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android > <https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers&af_wl=ym&af_sub1=Internal&af_sub2=Global_YGrowth&af_sub3=EmailSignature> > > > > On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 5:01 PM, > <mailto:re-wrenches-requ...@lists.re-wrenches.org> > re-wrenches-requ...@lists.re-wrenches.org > > < <mailto:re-wrenches-requ...@lists.re-wrenches.org> > re-wrenches-requ...@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > > Send RE-wrenches mailing list submissions to > > re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > <mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/listinfo.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > re-wrenches-requ...@lists.re-wrenches.org > <mailto:re-wrenches-requ...@lists.re-wrenches.org> > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > re-wrenches-ow...@lists.re-wrenches.org > <mailto:re-wrenches-ow...@lists.re-wrenches.org> > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > > than "Re: Contents of RE-wrenches digest..." > > > > > > When responding to posts within the Digest, be sure to restore the > Subject: line to the original, and please edit out any extraneous lines > from the quoted message. > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > 1. Re: Looking for insulated #6 bare standoff > > (Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar) > > > > > > -- > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2018 09:59:02 -0700 (PDT) > > From: "Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar" <mailto:offgridso...@sti.net> > > > To: "RE-wrenches" <mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> > > > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Looking for insulated #6 bare standoff > > Message-ID: > > <4244e49bbfd7bc5c2bb987b9429ff48f.squir...@webmail.sti.net > <mailto:4244e49
Re: [RE-wrenches] Looking for insulated #6 bare standoff
A question on this thread for you folks. Have you seen or heard of anyone building a single axis or dual tracker like the old Array Tek AZ 125 ? I really miss that tracker as it was on a 6 " pipe that I could install by myself. The 8" is just too hard for me to do at this ripe age. I could get 2KW on that 6 inch pole and very quickly give a huge positive impact on an offgrid home. Anything out there? Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 > That was my question as well. USE -2 with green insulation is > available. Sorry to hear about AHJ's in Idaho being stuck over a decade > back. I thought that array grounding was UL listed and better spelled > out now in NEC 2017. What code cycle are you all on? > > Ray Walters > > Remote Solar > > > On 4/18/18 6:24 PM, Benn Kilburn wrote: >> Dana, >> Why does it have to be bare copper? Can you not use a green insulated >> #6? >> >> Benn Kilburn >> SkyFire Energy >> 780-906-7807 >> >>> On Apr 18, 2018, at 10:59 AM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar >>> wrote: >>> >>> Why is it #6? Usually the solar panels wire size determine Array Teks >>> size >>> for this wiring. What do they say please? --Dave >>> >>>> How about an insulated loop clamp like this one: >>>> https://www.fastenal.com/products/details/0216763 >>>> >>>> You can get them in stainless and they have the rubber grommet so it >>>> won't >>>> touch the rack. >>>> >>>>> On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 12:00 PM, Dana wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Good Morning Wrenches, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I am required to keep the bare #6 copper from touching the aluminum >>>>> frame >>>>> work of a Array Technologies tracker where it is not mechanically >>>>> connected >>>>> by a pass-through ground clamp on a tracking array [dissimilar >>>>> metals] >>>>> and >>>>> am looking for a lead on an insulated standoff or strap to hold the >>>>> #6 >>>>> bare >>>>> copper as it passes from panel to panel and rail to rail. The plans >>>>> examiner would accept pass through clamps & this is a worst >>>>> case-spendy >>>>> solution to this. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I have searched the inquired at local electrical warehouse &on the >>>>> internet and to no avail under âinsulated strapâ & âinsulated >>>>> cable >>>>> standoffâ. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Has anyone else encountered his & what did you use? Where did you >>>>> source >>>>> this strap? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I remember seeing something like this in the fuzzy past & cannot >>>>> recall >>>>> where I saw it or what it was for. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for any suggestions. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. >>>>> >>>>> *C - 208.721.7003 d...@solarwork.com >>>>> * >>>>> >>>>> Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 >>>>> >>>>> NABCEP # 051112-136 www.solarwork.biz >>>>> >>>>> *"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" * >>>>> >>>>> *P* Please consider the environment before printing this email. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ___ >>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>> >>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> List-Archive: >>>>> http
Re: [RE-wrenches] Square D Recall
The good news here is it is not the 600vdc discos:) > Attached are the details on the recalled units, along with Schneider's > inspection procedures, care of a Mike Holt email blast. > > > Brian Mehalic > NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installation Professional⢠R031508-59 > 520.204.6639 > > Solar Energy International > http://www.solarenergy.org > > SEI Professional Services > http://www.seisolarpros.com > > > On Thu, Apr 19, 2018 at 11:24 AM, Garrison wrote: > >> Not sure if you heard, but Square D is recalling 30A and 60A disconnects >> that were manufactured in the last 4 years. Apparently they can stay >> energized in the off position. Over 1 millions units affected, many on >> PV >> systems Iâm sure. >> >> https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2018/schneider-electric- >> recalls-square-d-safety-switches-due-to-electrical-shock-hazard >> >> Be careful out there! >> >> Garrison Riegel >> Rethink Electric >> >> ___ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches. >> org/maillist.html >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> >> > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Looking for insulated #6 bare standoff
Dana, I understand the need to use #6 in exposed places on the earth. I have had inspectors require the same wire size that is used to the battery. I have had them require the same size as the array wiring. I have never seen them do what they are doing to you so thanks for the info Be well! --Dave > The bare #8 is an EGC for #10 USE PV wire on the tracker to the array > mounted combiner box. > > > Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. > C - 208.721.7003 d...@solarwork.com > Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 > NABCEP # 051112-136 www.solarwork.biz > "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" > ï Please consider the environment before printing this email. > > > -Original Message- > From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of > Hilton Dier > Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2018 3:39 PM > To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Looking for insulated #6 bare standoff > > Would #8 meet code? I thought that exposed ground wire had to be #6 > minimum. > > Hilton Dier III > Renewable Energy Design > Missisquoi River Hydro LLC > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Looking for insulated #6 bare standoff
No failures here either, always #10 thhn strands and a few from the old days (2001) that used marine wire at the pivot point! --Dave > > > Ray I have never (yet) had a wire failure in any of my trackers, l have > always used PVC flex tubing connected at both ends with a long line that > at any given point does not move much. I mainly use zomeworks passive > sonhle axes trackers but have done it the same way with array technologes > dual axes unitsJerry > > > Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone > > Original message > From: Ray > Date: 4/19/18 1:05 PM (GMT-10:00) > To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Looking for insulated #6 bare standoff > > On tracking arrays, I have had both solid and stranded copper ground > wire strain harden and break. The cyclical motion will slowly work away > at coarse cables. I've even seen solid #6 break off on just a tilt > adjustable array. I now use a braided ground strap at least for the rack > to pole ground connection. This is the same strap that is used to > ground generators and other moving electrical equipment. > > https://www.delcity.net/store/Ground-Straps/p_818655.h_818654 > > I isolate it at the connection to the aluminum with a sandwich of > Stainless fender washers and a 1/4" bolt with toothed lock washer to > bite into the AL, or it also works well folded in ground Lugs and buss > bars. You can open up the weave of the braided copper in the middle to > get the 1/4" bolt through. I've checked these years later: no > corrosion, wire not broken off at the connector. > > Ray > > > On 4/19/18 3:48 PM, Dana wrote: >> The bare #8 is an EGC for #10 USE PV wire on the tracker to the array >> mounted combiner box. >> >> >> Dana Orzel                             >> Great Solar Works, Inc. >> C - 208.721.7003                      >> d...@solarwork.com >> Idaho Contractor - # 028765        Idaho PV # 028374 >> NABCEP # 051112-136                      >> www.solarwork.biz >> "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" >> ï Please consider the environment before printing this email. >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: RE-wrenches On Behalf >> Of Hilton Dier >> Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2018 3:39 PM >> To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Looking for insulated #6 bare standoff >> >> Would #8 meet code? I thought that exposed ground wire had to be #6 >> minimum. >> >> Hilton Dier III >> Renewable Energy Design >> Missisquoi River Hydro LLC >> ___ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List-Archive: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> ___ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List-Archive: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email add
Re: [RE-wrenches] Large Off Grid Inverter?
Agree with Daryl here at the end. You have to solve the motor surge with variable frequency drive and go 3 phase. If there is a reasonable cost to use the grid I would not even bother with quoting an off the grid solution. It is what the grid is best at and batteries are the wrong way for this. Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 > you have a problem that is much bigger than I work on. But on a large > motor heavy starting loads problem, we used an extra capacitor on the DC > bus of the frequency drive. the drive on its own greatly reduced the > start > surge, if the load can be started slowly. If the motor must ramp up > quickly the voltage would drop and the capacitor reduced the bump on the > line. This was a few years ago but we put a 200 HP drive on a 100 HP > motor > and added the extra capacitor. Another trick on a different job was to > run > a 3 phase motor with a flywheel and start this motor slowly when the motor > that had to start rapidly the running motor acts as a frequency > stabilizer and dumps it energy into the rapidly starting motor. again > this > was maybe 15 years ago. these kluge solutions were applied when the > inverter could in no way handle the surge and would kick the inverter off > the line. Another solution used by Catipiller they had a unit that could > give 3000 amps 480 v0lts for I think 30 seconds running a motor as a > flywheel for UPS giving the generator set time to start. Check with > Catapiller. again another project we clutched the running motor to the > load to start the load fast and not have to face starting current. One > last comment we had a 5000 HP motor to start a very heavy load, this motor > had a hydraulic coupling that filled with oil to control the motor load. > But I think a speed drive is more practical. And there are regen drives > also. > > There are some other kluges that can be applied, good luck, sorry if this > is of no value. > > On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 2:36 PM, Ray wrote: > >> Greetings Fellow Wrenches; >> >> We are consulting on a power system for a large off grid facility that >> is >> currently operating on a 1500 kW gen set. The loads are enormous for >> normal off grid: in the neighborhood of 600 amps continuous at 480 v 3 >> phase. Surges are close to 2000 amps, but we are working on control >> programming to bring that number down substantially. That is due >> primarily >> to a 250 Hp motor start. (that's not a typo!). EPA and local regulations >> are dictating that the current generator be retired in the near future. >> Grid power is a possibility, but we need to offer a viable off grid >> option >> as well. >> >> My question to the group: does anyone have real off grid experience with >> large format battery based inverters? I've heard of some micro-grid >> systems running in Haiti on Princeton Power inverters, and Dynapower has >> a >> 250 kW inverter that has a "grid forming" mode. As we all know, it is >> easier to make claims in spec sheets than to deliver hard motor starting >> power in a remote location. We need proven products, with a track >> record >> of reliability. >> >> We are considering SMA type systems that use AC coupled PV to offset >> fuel >> consumption of a generator, but those seem dependent on the generator to >> maintain the stability of the micro grid during hard starting loads. >> Ideally we would want to reduce the generator run time to under 200 hrs/ >> yr >> and reduce its size to 500 kW. We have excellent solar resources year >> round, and the possibility of limiting operations during cloudy weather >> to >> meet these goals. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Ray Walters >> >> Remote Solar >> >> ___ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List-Archive: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.or >> g/maillist.html >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email add
Re: [RE-wrenches] Large Off Grid Inverter?
I know Schneider would love to sell you their cluster of 15 XW6848+ for a max of 102KW and probably well over 300KW of surge. Here is a link to their commercial offgrid. I do own their stock and other companies also :) Their commercial engineers are pretty smart about this. https://solar.schneider-electric.com/solution/commercial-off-grid-solar-2/ This does sound like a challenge and keep us informed on what you do please! Good Luck! --Dave > Hello Ray, > > I have a couple 60/100 kW SMA Sunny Island systems out there, systems with > 100 kW generators, 400 kWh battery banks and generally token renewable > inputs. I feel with this configuration we close maxing out what can be > done with 48VDC. > > Getting into the MW scale scares me to be honest. I think that will be > well beyond what can be handled at 48VDC and is well beyond capacity of > the SMA systems. Really need to look into higher DC voltages to handle > this kind of current. > > If this was my client I would first look to the loads and see if there are > any alternatives to the 250 HP motor. I have learned there are often > massive levels of engineering overkill in the industrial world. What is > the duty cycle of that motor, what does it do, etc? Would they be better > to go directly diesel for that? > > In terms of system designs I'd investigate a direct diesel/PV interface > skipping battery storage. Perhaps a group of 250 kW synchronized > generators that can ramp up/down based on demand. Perhaps similar tech to > what Tesla is doing in Australia. > > Kevin > > > -Original Message- > From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On > Behalf Of Ray > Sent: April-25-18 12:37 PM > To: RE-wrenches > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Large Off Grid Inverter? > > Greetings Fellow Wrenches; > > We are consulting on a power system for a large off grid facility that is > currently operating on a 1500 kW gen set. The loads are enormous for > normal off grid: in the neighborhood of 600 amps continuous at 480 v 3 > phase. Surges are close to 2000 amps, but we are working on control > programming to bring that number down substantially. That is due > primarily to a 250 Hp motor start. (that's not a typo!). EPA and local > regulations are dictating that the current generator be retired in the > near future. Grid power is a possibility, but we need to offer a viable > off grid option as well. > > My question to the group: does anyone have real off grid experience with > large format battery based inverters?  I've heard of some micro-grid > systems running in Haiti on Princeton Power inverters, and Dynapower has a > 250 kW inverter that has a "grid forming" mode. As we all know, it is > easier to make claims in spec sheets than to deliver hard motor starting > power in a remote location. We need proven products, with a track record > of reliability. > > We are considering SMA type systems that use AC coupled PV to offset fuel > consumption of a generator, but those seem dependent on the generator to > maintain the stability of the micro grid during hard starting loads. > Ideally we would want to reduce the generator run time to under 200 hrs/ > yr and reduce its size to 500 kW. We have excellent solar resources year > round, and the possibility of limiting operations during cloudy weather > to meet these goals. > > Thanks, > > Ray Walters > > Remote Solar > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List
Re: [RE-wrenches] Large Off Grid Inverter?
> Ray Walters >> >> Remote Solar >> >> ___ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List-Archive: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> ___ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List-Archive: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Fire damage
Are they worth it? I might tell someone to take a chance if they were Sunpower/Panasonic/LG mono panels:) > Best to use a PV Analyzer to get accurate tests results > Jerry > > On Fri, May 4, 2018, 7:07 AM Kristopher Schmid > wrote: > >> Greetings wrenches, >> >> I have a client that is looking to buy some salvaged modules off of a >> building that was near a fire. What kind of potential issues can you >> anticipate? Smoke, heat, etc. Would it be enough to just test voc and >> isc >> for a known cell temp and irradiance in addition to a visual inspection >> or >> would an iv curve trace be necessary? >> >> Thanks for any information, >> Kris >> ___ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List-Archive: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] PV Cell Temperature Variation
Corey, What make of panel please. Forgive if I missed it... Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 > Corey, > > I have been studying IR diagnostics quite a lot, but I haven't had a whole > lot of opportunity to "get my hands dirty" with it, so I'm not sure how > much help I'll be. I would like to know how many modules are in each > string. > > I'm going to share some random thoughts on this, but nothing here is at > all conclusive, and if anyone can correct some flaws in my logic, I'd love > to hear it! > > It doesn't look like a simple, obvious problem. Your curve trace has a > predicted Isc, with a dampening current to the knee, it has a sharp knee, > then it has a low voltage at Vmp, and it stays really low all the way to > Voc. A high series resistance would explain the dampening current to the > knee, but it wouldn't explain the low voltage at all. If there was high > resistance in the cells, you should see signs of diodes activating unless > all of the cell groups had relatively uniform resistance. > > Generally, the hot cells in the checkerboard pattern are underproducing > compared to the cooler cells. Because they can't pass on as much current, > they are actually wasting some of the energy that the other cells are > producing. This wasted energy turns into heat. The often times, they waste > more energy than they are producing themselves. > > > Alternatively, there could be other issues (or damage) at the hot cells. > > The fact that the checkerboard pattern goes away when you shut off the > inverter may be helpful. If you short out a module, it will almost always > look like a checkerboard in an IR shot, and if a diode shorts out, that > third of the module will generally look like a checkerboard. > > This is the confusing part... Because the checkerboard appearance goes > away, that would most likely indicate that it's not an issue of a short > circuit failure (such as short-circuited diodes, or short-circuited > modules). On the other hand, your curve trace looks somewhat like what > you'd expect if you had some short-circuited diodes. > > It looks like you have a calculated Voc of around 860, and a measured Voc > of around 725. That's about 84%. My initial first guess based on this > curve trace alone would have been that perhaps roughly 16% of the cell > groups might be shorted out. So if you had 20 modules per string, that > would be 30 cell groups (assuming 3 diodes per cell group). With these > hypotheticals, you would have somewhere around 5 shorted cell groups. > > > > > > > > Now that I'm looking at this closer, the knee of the curve is very quite > sharp. I wonder if this could be caused by a higher resistance short > somewhere out in the array (or in a conduit somewhere). (Perhaps this > could be from compromised insulation or water intrusion somewhere??) > Assuming that this isn't an intermittent problem, this would be easy to > test under Voc. Just take a good DC amp clamp into the array while the > inverter is shut down, and test the PV wires several places to try to find > current in the array. > > Under this hypothesis, as the curve tracer starts pulling current, and the > measured voltage falls from Voc, it gets to a point where suddenly, the > fault isn't passing as much current. This would cause the sharp knee on > the curve trace. As the voltage gets lower, the current at the fault would > also get lower and the measured curve would increasingly get closer to the > predicted curve. This model would also explain why the checkerboard > phenomenon goes away when you turn off the inverter... it would be because > the current going across the fault would be much lower than Isc, so when > it's resting, there isn't enough current flowing to produce the > checkerboard effect. Using this hypothesis, the checkerboard phenomenon > might not be indicating a problem in the modules at all. If there is a > high resistance short somewhere in the array, then that would cause the > actual current in the modules to be above the predicted Imp because the > current is being lost before it gets to the inverter. Because nearly all > modules get the checkerboard phenomenon at Isc, it wouldn't be surprising > if many normal modules would also get the phenomenon if they're operating > between Imp and Isc. > > > > Again, take these thoughts with a grain of salt. If anyone sees somewhere > that I'm going wrong, I'd love to hear from you! Hopefully, something here > helps! > > Thanks, > Kienan > > > Maxfi
Re: [RE-wrenches] wireless relays for load shedding?
You would be separating the heater load from the hot tub jets right? If you do not then the jets will not run unless the power is on? Seems like a problem if someone wants to use the tub when the gen set is off. --Dave > Wireless - I have no clue but - Simplest thing that comes to mind is > spring wound timers on the infrared lamps & clock timers. > > Spring wound timers come in lots of âlength of time optionsâ > > Could the hot tubs have a âUse scheduleâ to coincide with the clock > settings? > > > > > > Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. > > C - 208.721.7003 d...@solarwork.com > > Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 > > NABCEP # 051112-136 www.solarwork.biz > <http://www.solarwork.biz> > > "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" > > P Please consider the environment before printing this email. > > > > > > From: RE-wrenches On Behalf Of > Eric Youngren > Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 1:28 PM > To: RE-wrenches > Subject: [RE-wrenches] wireless relays for load shedding? > > > > Howdy Wrenches, > > > > I'm working on a generator powered mini-grid for an island fishing resort > in Alaska. They have 3 XW6048 inverter/chargers to charge batteries while > the diesel runs and power the loads from the batteries when the diesel > shuts down. > > > > They have several high power heating loads not typically seen in > battery-based off-grid electrical systems. Two 4kW hot tub heaters and six > 1kW infrared space heaters. We have the 46 kW generator run-times set so > that the infrared heaters are (in theory) powered only while the generator > is running, but the hot tubs are thermostatically controlled and cycle on > and off every 4-5 hours or so. > > > > I want to make it so that these big heating loads can never be powered > from the batteries, and will only come on while the generator is running. > The current plan is to use the Auxillary output 12V terminals from one of > the XWs to control power relays to switch the hot tub circuits, based on > battery voltage triggers. One of those hot tub circuits is fed from the > main panel right next to the inverters so that is easy enough. But the > other hot tub is fed from a sub-panel located in a different building > around 200 feet away from the inverters. Pulling a pair of wires to > control the second relay at that sub-panel is not practical. So, I'm > looking for wireless options that could control a power relay for the hot > tub circuit in the remote sub-panel. Ideally, the control signal would > come from the same AUX terminal so both hot tubs will not receive power > when the battery voltage is below 50 volts or so, which would indicate > that the generator is not running. > > > > I would also like to put the infrared heaters on a similar control system > so that we are not dependent on people remembering to switch off the > heaters before the generator shuts down. > > > > Has any of you done this kind of thing? Any suggestions on equipment or > best practices? THANKS! > > > > Eric Youngren > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] AC-coupled storage
Blue Ion ? made in Hawaii ! Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 > Aloha, > > > > Other than the Tesla Powerwall, does anyone know of any other AC-coupled > residential storage products currently on the market? > > > > Thanks, > > marco > > > > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Xfmr's job?
The 8kw radian still has to have balance! You can't expect it to supply 8kw @ 120vac. It can supply 8kw @ 240 vac. > Does each of the 4 kW 240 volt inverters have a maximum on the 120-volt > power it can supply? for example, can it supply 70% of the 4 kW on 120 > -volts? > This example would leave 5.6 kW of 120-volt? > > On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 11:09 PM, jerrysgarage01 > > wrote: > >> The Radian has 2, 4k, 240 volt inverters, so its different but the way >> the >> computer works it makes the same from the load side of things >> Jerry >> >> >> >> Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone >> >> >> Original message >> From: frenergy >> Date: 5/29/18 5:51 PM (GMT-10:00) >> To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Xfmr's job? >> >> Hey folks, >> >> Outback FP2 with Xfrmr shifts power to "other" leg if that >> leg needs more than the one FX can provide, right? Say, you need 5.5 KW >> on leg 1, the Xfrmr pulls some power from the leg 2 (inverter) to >> support that 5.5KW load on leg 1. >> >> My question (assuming above is accurate) is does the 8048 Radian do the >> same? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Bill >> >> Feather River Solar Electric >> Bill Battagin, Owner >> 4291 Nelson St. >> Taylorsville, CA 95983 >> 530.284.7849 >> CA Lic 874049 >> www.frenergy.net >> >> >> --- >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus >> >> >> ___ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches. >> org/maillist.html >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> >> ___ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches. >> org/maillist.html >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> >> > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Xfmr's job?
Magnum is a no go for me for several reasons. First one is until they have a decent web based system data view/configure I can't help my remote clients as I do with Outback and Schneider. The second is they did not have a charge controller until 3 or so years ago:( The 8 KW radian and its mppts or an XW+ and the hi voltage mppt just works too well. XW+ can be configured for 6.8 KW @ 120vac if needed. I am going to use alot of skyboxes if they release it in November! Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 > Hi all i have great respect for Magnum, it seems to have greater surge > capacity, and i have 120 volt draws greater thsn 2500 watts on one leg. I > never had a to much load one one leg problem. With Magnum, so please give > more information > > On Thu, May 31, 2018, 7:09 AM Drake > wrote: > >> That is interesting about Magnum: Tech support >> told me that the 4024PAE was two separate 2000 W >> inverters. We had problems with a microwave shutting the system down. >> >> Do you find you have good reliability with Magnum products? >> >> Drake >> >> >> At 03:53 PM 5/30/2018, you wrote: >> >HI Dave and everyone, Its interesting because >> >there is a great deal of difference between >> >OEMââ¬â¢s. Outback says 4kw at 120v for 8kw >> >radian. ( tech support) Magnum says 27 amps at >> >120v, 16.7 amps at 240 for MS4024PAE ( from the >> >manual) Schneider says 4200 watts at 120v on >> >XW-6848 ( from the manual) Also I know that the >> >Magnum allows you to charge with just 120v and I >> >think the XW is the same, OB you have to have >> >240v. Cheers jay > On May 30, 2018, at 7:52 AM, >> >Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar >> > wrote: > > The 8kw radian >> >still has to have balance! You can't expect it >> >to supply > 8kw @ 120vac. It can supply 8kw @ >> >240 vac. > > >> Does each of the 4 kW 240 volt >> >inverters have a maximum on the 120-volt >> >> >power it can supply? for example, can it supply >> >70% of the 4 kW on 120 >> -volts? >> This >> >example would leave 5.6 kW of 120-volt? >> >> On >> >Tue, May 29, 2018 at 11:09 PM, jerrysgarage01 >> >> > >> wrote: >> >>> The >> >Radian has 2, 4k, 240 volt inverters, so its >> >different but the way >>> the >>> computer works >> >it makes the same from the load side of >> >things >>> Jerry >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my >> >Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone >>> >>> >>> >> > Original message >>> From: >> >frenergy >>> Date: 5/29/18 >> >5:51 PM (GMT-10:00) >>> To: >> >re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>> Subject: >> >[RE-wrenches] Xfmr's job? >>> >>> Hey >> >folks, >>> >>>Outback FP2 with Xfrmr >> >shifts power to "other" leg if that >>> leg >> >needs more than the one FX can provide, >> >right? Say, you need 5.5 KW >>> on leg 1, the >> >Xfrmr pulls some power from the leg 2 (inverter) >> >to >>> support that 5.5KW load on leg 1. >>> >>> >> >My question (assuming above is accurate) is does >> >the 8048 Radian do the >>> same? >>> >>> >> >Thanks, >>> >>> Bill >>> >>> Feather River Solar >> >Electric >>> Bill Battagin, Owner >>> 4291 >> >Nelson St. >>> Taylorsville, CA 95983 >>> >> >530.284.7849 >>> CA Lic 874049 >>> >> >www.frenergy.net >>> >>> >>> --- >> >___ >> >List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: >> >RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change >> >listserver email address & settings: >> >http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >List-Archive: >> > >> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html >> >List rules & etiquette: >> >www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or >> >update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> ___ >> List sponsored by Redw
[RE-wrenches] 60 vdc 1A fuse
I use to be able to find a Bussman FRN - R 1 amp fuse. It is not made anymore, I found searching. I could use a PV 600vdc fuse but they are physically bigger than I want. There is a https://www.amazon.com/COOPER-BUSSMANN-GMT-1A-INDICATING-ACTING/dp/B00LQP0ZOO/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1528048058&sr=8-3-fkmr0&keywords=Bussmann+BK/GMT-1A+Fast-Acting+Fuse;+1+Amp,+125+Volt+AC/60+Volt+DC Anyone have a line on a typical glass/ceramic type 1 adc fuse rated for 60vdc? Thx! Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Ilsco Insulated Tap Connectors
Discover AES has some very nice Li-ion batteries that work directly with Schneider Electric and soon Outback. http://discoveraes.com/ Almost all of the LFP batteries are selling for about $1,000 per usable KWH. They are expensive but if you do the math, and pick a company that will be there, they could outlive you. Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 > Hello Wrenches, I am trying to redesign a couple hundred watt load > off-grid system by first focusing on the battery technology. The Li > based battery "packages" I am aware of are essentially for a residence, > which is too large for this application. Can you recommend a > manufacturer of Li batteries that can be used in an off grid application > that had safe battery charging capabilities as part of its product > line. Currently, 2 Trojan L16s are being used, which, while is a fine > battery, is limited in its depth of discharge. Thanks for any > info/help. Chris > > -- > >         Christopher Warfel, PE >       ENTECH Engineering, Inc. > PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807 >               (401)466-8978 > > EEI logo <http://entech-engineering.com> > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] top of pole with no galvy
Array Technology has metal options for the AZ-250 and other trackers for coastal regions. I have not checked this lately though. What about DPW? --Dave > Hi All, > I have a super particular customer who needs a small top-of-pole rack, but > will not accept anything but aluminum or stainless (or bronze or titanium > or . . ). No galvanized steel! Anyone have a lead on a rack manufacturer > that has all aluminum pole tops, like Unirac used to make? > Thanks. > > Bruce Erickson > Mendocino Solar Service > PO Box 1252 > Mendocino, CA 95460 > 707-937-1701 > 707-937-1741 fax > br...@mendocinosolar.com > > Connecting Mendocino County to Solar Since 1994 > > > > > > > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Three phase lightning protection
3 Midnite 600v SPD's ! > > Anyone got a line on half decent three phase 600 V lightning suppression? > delta 603 just ainât getting it.. thanks > > Dan Brown > Foxfire Energy Corp. > (802)-483-2564 > www.Foxfire-Energy.com > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Three phase lightning protection
In really bad places I use both. The Midnite for precise protection and the Delta for a close hit! > 2nd the Midnite's. I quit having lightning related damage since I > started using them. Delta? I think a Pet Rock might be more effective. > > Ray Walters > Remote Solar > 303 505-8760 > > On 6/10/18 3:56 PM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar wrote: >> 3 Midnite 600v SPD's ! >> >>> Anyone got a line on half decent three phase 600 V lightning >>> suppression? >>> delta 603 just ainââ¬â¢t getting it.. thanks >>> >>> Dan Brown >>> Foxfire Energy Corp. >>> (802)-483-2564 >>> www.Foxfire-Energy.com >>> ___ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List-Archive: >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> >> >> Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar >> "we go where powerlines don't" >> http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ >> e-mail offgridso...@sti.net >> text 209 813 0060 >> >> ___ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List-Archive: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Wood pellet stove for off grid
I have been looking at https://www.osburn-mfg.com/en/products/pellet-stoves/2500-pellet-stove/#fiche-technique For an elderly client who wants to not deal with fire wood. This unit uses about 100 watts if on all the time and about 300 to ignite. If you find something nicer or lower power consumption I would appreciate a link. The Brand Osburn is excellent and they have supported their wood stoves to me and clients for at least 30 years. Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 > Wrenchsters, > > I am looking for advice on selecting the right wood pellet stove for an > off grid house that will not be using regular firewood any longer. > ⢠It will be in the basement so the appearance doesnât matter. > ⢠The home also has non electric LP gas heat. Looking for a secondary > source for security and to guard against gas price increase. > ⢠The home is 1,000 sq ft. 1-1/2 story (plus basement). Home has large > air movement grates up to first and second floor for heat. > ⢠Rental home â so reliable operation is valued > ⢠Would like auto feed on pellet stove > ⢠Low power draw is important as this is located in Vermont where the > sun doesnât shine much in the winter. > I have heard that Harman stoves are high quality but they are expensive > and owner doesnât need the stove to look like it belongs in the living > room. > > Thanks in advance, > David Palumbo > Hyde Park, Vermont > > Sent from Mail for Windows 10 > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Xantrex XW4548 Grid tie sell and charge wildly out of control
Way too many issues when you mix equipment manufacturers. Do you want torture? Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 Dave John BlittersdorfDave > Hello Group. > I have a customer with an XW4548 grid tied with a Classic 200 CC, 16 > Evergreen ES-A210's, > 8 Interstate L16 Batteries, with generator backup. We have had issues > with > it not selling, selling and then charging at high rates way beyond the > settings. This has been an ongoing problem for 6 years and currrently are > 18 months into the 2nd battery pack and showing depleted battery life. > Xantrex tech support says that the battery capacity is too small and we > are > not setting it up correctly. Before the first set of batteries had one > battery explode, we had spent countless hours with their tech support > trying to get this inverter to behave properly. Even when going through > every setting with tech support, we never got it to work quite right. > Setting to factory defaults did not work. Found that the default > absorption > time was 6 hours and the inverter battery charger was pushing up to 75 > amps > into this battery, then selling at about 40 to 60 amps DC and then > immediately charging and then selling. I estimate this battery pack may > have had thousands of massive charge and discharge cycles... good reason > for the batteries to be weak now. After a few of these wild cycles, it > would fault with DC overvoltage. It would eventually clear the fault and > do this crazy cycle again. I programmed the inverter charger to the > lowest > setting of 10%, Lowered the battery capacity setting to 200 ah from 360, > set the charge timer to not run during the hours we were there. None of > these changes made any significant difference. We also set the maximum > Sell amps AC down to 3 amps which should have kept it at about 720 watts > but we were still seeing it sell up to 2500 watts. Before we reset that,, > it was selling up to 4000 watts. > > Could it be a defective SCP. There is no internet there to allow us to see > the past performance. > > Does anyone have a clue what is going on. I have worked with Outback > Radians in this same configuration with no problems at all. I am about > ready to rip it off the wall and replace it with a Radian. > > John Blittersdorf > Rob Stubbins Electrical and Solar. > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown and January 1 2019 option?
Thankfully Ray zero of the 150 + of Offgrid homes I have done have their array on a roof, are inspected, or would the owner ever want more than an outdoor shut-down of the system. The few that have had inspections, the inspector does not worry about this as the array is not on the roof. In my opinion there should be nothing that shuts down and offgrid battery inverter other than a dead battery or overcurrent/disco protection. I feel for you guys! Crazy people everywhere:( In 3 wildfires near my home there has never been an engine until it past the next day. They know they can stay here in the garage where it is cool, no smoke, and power 24/7. Schneider does build the GFCI into the CC and I have had them shut down an XW with close in lightning which is a plus. Yes on fixing this! Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 > Midnite has some string level and module level 690.12 disconnects that > wire in like an optimizer or micro inverter, so those should be able to > meet the 2019 requirements. However beware: they as of yet still don't > have a reasonable disconnect system to disconnect the charge controller > which has capacitors that back feed the PV line for up to 90 seconds. > They have a DC GFI breaker with remote trip capability but it takes 4 > spaces, so with multiple charge controllers it turns into a wiring mess > really fast. > > I actually wired in some 60 amp rated diodes on one system to get it to > pass inspection; what a joke, going back to 1980s equipment to pass 2017 > code.   690.12 is an absolute nightmare for small off grid. There > really should be some exemptions for small arrays (under 3 kW) and under > 100 vdc. Fire fighters are not going to get there till the structure is > down anyway, Response times are up to an hour for remote locations with > volunteer fire departments. Its not like in town at all; no one is > going to go on the roof on an off grid fire. > > On the flip side, there are real dangers created by nuisance tripping of > 690.12 equipment. Again, on grid it's a mere inconvenience, but off > grid it could mean spoiled food, frozen water lines, shut down heating > systems in subzero temperatures, and for the elderly: loss of their > breathing machines. I've already had a 74 year old customer climbing on > their roof multiple times to reset the Rapid shutdown equipment after > nuisance trips. Are we going to wait until we get someone killed in the > name of "Safety" before we fix this? > > Ray Walters > Remote Solar > 303 505-8760 > > On 7/6/18 9:55 AM, cwarfel wrote: >> >> I am wondering about the experience installers have with a DC coupled >> multimode system design that will comply after January 1 with what I >> feel is the biggest mistake/poorly guided part of NEC 2017 690, and >> that is 690.12. We are installing two Outback systems with the remote >> controlled combiner and even that won't comply after January 1 unless >> we parallel more subarrays (There's safety for you, lower >> voltage-higher amperage!). Thanks for any insight. >> >> Chris >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >>         Christopher Warfel, PE >>       ENTECH Engineering, Inc. >> PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807 >>               (401)466-8978 >> >> EEI logo <http://entech-engineering.com> >> >> >> ___ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List-Archive: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] ITC for the Second Time
I would tell them to do it! I have heard people say that it could be interpreted differently. I know of at least 100 of my offgrid clients have claimed the credit and none have been audited since 2005. None before that also Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 > Dear Wise Wrenches, > We have a client who installed a GT system with us in 2015. They now > want to install another system on the same house. Will they still > qualify for the 30% ITC? Or is that a one time only thing? > Thanks a Ton! > >  Andrew KoyaanisqatsiPresidentSolar Energy Solutions, Inc. > The BRIGHT CHOICE > Since 1987, helping you and your Portland neighbors > move towards an environmentally sustainable future.503-238-4502 > www.SolarEnergyOregon.com ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] UL/CSA listed battery monitor?
t and may contain >>>> confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized >>>> review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you >>>> are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and >>>> delete any copies of this message. >>>> >>>> ** >>>> >>>> *From:*RE-wrenches >>>> [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org >>>> <mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org>] *On Behalf >>>> Of *Hilton Dier III >>>> *Sent:* Monday, July 09, 2018 9:06 PM >>>> *To:* re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>>> <mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> >>>> *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] UL/CSA listed battery monitor? >>>> >>>> I have a client who needs a monitoring system for a 48V nominal >>>> NiCad battery bank on a boat. It's 4 parallel strings of 6V >>>> batteries. (Not ideal, I know) It's a passenger boat in Canada >>>> so all electrical devices need to be UL/CSA listed. None of the >>>> Bogart Engineering monitors are listed. >>>> >>>> Any suggestions appreciated. >>>> >>>> Thanks! >>>> >>>> Hilton >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> Hilton Dier III >>>> >>>> Missisquoi River Hydro >>>> >>>> Renewable Energy Design >>>> >>>> >>>> ___ >>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>> >>>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>>> <mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> >>>> >>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org> >>>> >>>> List-Archive: >>>> >>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html >>>> >>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html> >>>> >>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>> <http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm> >>>> >>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>> www.members.re-wrenches.org <http://www.members.re-wrenches.org> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ___ >>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>> >>>> List Address:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List-Archive:http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html >>>> >>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>> >>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>> www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ___ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> List Address:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List-Archive:http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >> >> >> >> ___ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List-Archive: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar set backs
Certified Solar PV >>> >>> T: 740-277-8498 >>> >>> www.arp-solar.com >>> >>> >>> "First they ignore you. Then they laugh at you. Then they fight you. >>> Then >>> you win." >>> >>> ~Ghandi >>> >>> >>> >>> ___ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List-Archive: >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> >>> ___________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List-Archive: >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> >>> >> ___ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List-Archive: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Ac Coupling
You could ask them? I know the XW+ works fine with the SMA TL series grid inverters. Phone: +1 866-519-1470 Email: re.techsupp...@schneider-electric.com --Dave > Does anyone have a recommendation on a battery based inverter to AC Couple > with a Solar Edge 11400A-US Inverter that is already installed? > I have been working a lot with the Schneider Conergy XW+ Inverters for off > grid but have no experience AC Coupling them with a Solar Edge Inverter > Any recommendations? > > Thanks > Larry > > Larry Brown > Sun Mountain > 845-657-8096 > sunmount...@netstep.net > > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Electrolyte Dilution vs Voltage
> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> <http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm> >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org <http://www.members.re-wrenches.org/> >> t...@swnl.net >> mailto:t...@swnl.net%22%20%5Co%20%22blocked::mailto:t...@swnl.net> >> www.SWNL.net >> http://www.swnl.net/%22%20%5Co%20%22blocked::http://www.swnl.net/> >> Solarwinds Northernlights >>Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California >> 207-832-7574 Cl. 610-517-8401 >> Blair "TUMP" May >> MAINE'S CHARTER >> NABCEP"Certified PV Installer" >> >> MAINE'S CHARTER >> Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer" >> > > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery "event"
Kris, It would be nice to see a picture of the whole battery bank. I would guess a spark/arc from bad battery wiring practice/installation during charging. Just the hint that he was watering to avoid you seeing the bad maintenance on his part would make me walk. I always am extremely leery of "inherited" clients. I like to teach mine to to this right and alway have a copy of the check for the battery near the bank. A picture of a fire truck with lights on might help this guy... Good Luck Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 > Since we are talking batteries... I had a scheduled checkup on an > inherited > stand alone system last Tuesday. On Monday night, the client called to > tell me that a battery blew up in his face when he was adding water (no > doubt to prevent being scolded by me regarding fluid level maintenance). > He assures me that there was no metal in the vicinity and, indeed, I saw > no > evidence of a short on the terminals. Judging by the rest of the pack, > it's likely that the plates were exposed and he was adding fluid with hard > solar charging in progress. Fortunately he only suffered an injured > finger > and a ringing in his ears. > > Best guesses at the cause of the explosion? > > Picture attached. > > Thanks, > Kris > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] 5 battery strings
It is extremely rare that a 2V cell like Trump is refering fails causing loss of power to the home. There is often plenty of warning that an informed offgrid owner would have that something is wrong. The last point is the inverter and charge controllers have enough range that they can operate the system with a missing 2V battery until one is obtained if that happened. 2V systems are much more reliable in my experience than strings of 6V batteries. Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 On Wed, 25 Jul 2018 08:32:15 -1000, t...@wagonmaker.com wrote: > So you're willing to risk total system shutdown if a single cell fails? > It just seems like a big risk even if the batteries are considered > highly reliable. I always planned to minimize the risk of failure > causing a power outage. A buss bar arrangement with more strings > provides redundancy and reduced downtime while still being very stable, > more stable than an interconnected series/parallel arrangement. > > Tom > > On 2018-07-25 00:39, Tump wrote: >> Perhaps suggesting the correct amp Hr battery bank would eliminate the >> _need_ for buss bar. 2 volt EX1400 1K amp hour batteries work very >> well good warrantee. all the fusing & interconnects would be >> eliminated. MORE AHs = less interconnects, always the correct way to >> go! >> >>> On Jul 24, 2018, at 9:40 AM, Dave Tedeyan >>> wrote: >>> >>> Thank you all for the ideas and suggestions. This person in >>> particular had #4 wire for the battery connections, >>> so they are all getting replaced with anyway. So it seems like >>> rewiring to a busbar with fuses will be the way to >>> go. And although not ideal to have so many strings, this will be >>> more cost effective than just getting a whole new >>> battery bank right off the bat when they have 10 batteries that have >>> essentially never been used. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Dave >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Dave Tedeyan >>> >>> SENIOR ENGINEER >>> >>> TAITEM ENGINEERING, PC >>> 10 Verizon Lane, Lansing, NY 14882 >>> Voice: (607) 930-3481 x6 >>> www.taitem.com [1] >>> On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 8:50 PM, Glenn Burt >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Christopher, >>> >>> I buy my copper buss material from McMaster Carr in appropriate >>> dimensions for the current I am expecting. >>> >>> I then cut it to the lengths I need, drill for appropriate size >>> fasteners and use 2 layers of heat-shrink tubing to protect the >>> exposed bar. >>> >>> Hope this helps. >>> >>> -Glenn >>> >>> FROM: RE-wrenches ON >>> BEHALF OF Chris Schaefer >>> SENT: Monday, July 23, 2018 2:28 PM >>> TO: RE-wrenches >>> SUBJECT: Re: [RE-wrenches] 5 battery strings >>> >>> What source are you all using for buss bars for these multiple >>> battery string set ups? >>> >>> Christopher >>> >>> On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 2:16 PM, wrote: >>> >>> Separate out the individual series strings and run each string to a >>> buss bar setup. Remember it isn't just resistance differences >>> between batteries but resistance difference between cells as well. >>> In a setup like the existing one the resistance differences can >>> really add up and if one battery fails the entire system will be >>> offline. Running each string to a positive and negative common buss >>> bar means you can remove individual strings without disrupting the >>> entire storage and the system can continue operating. Also, it >>> means the only resistance issues of substance are within individual >>> series pairs not the entire interconnected bank. >>> >>> I ran 10 series pairs of 12v AGM batteries, each pair to a common >>> buss and it was the longest lasting, most stable battery bank I had. >>> That was years ago and now it would require fusing each string but >>> for longevity and stability it is the best bet. >>> >>> Tom >>> >>> On 2018-07-23 03:56, Dave Tedeyan wrote: >>> >>> Since we are on the topic of bad battery practices... >>> >>> I may be fixing up a system that was both designed and installed >>> very >>> poorly. >>> They have a 24V Outback VFXR inverter, and ten 12V AGM batteries >>> wired
Re: [RE-wrenches] Batteries in 4' tall crawl space
Another way to do this that I often use for Offgrid is to build a small slab that a battery van can get to on an outside wall of the house. Pick a wall of the house that this will not be an eyesore. Build up a 2 x6 wall with a removable top and side. In the summer, a fan ventilates it outdoors. In places where it is cold, the wall into the crawlspace, from the new box, is open and the batteries are at the temperature of the crawlspace. No bending or cramped conditions and easy to replace batteries. Easy access for fire people to shut down. Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ [1] e-mail offgridso...@sti.net [2] text 209 813 0060 On Fri, 3 Aug 2018 02:12:04 + (UTC), Jerry Caldwell wrote:Thanks for the advice everyone. These would be sealed AGM batteries. The access issues are definitely food for thought. Cheers, JerryOn Wednesday, August 1, 2018, 10:30:36 PM PDT, Ray wrote: Never laid on my stomach, I just have kneel pad I use for lots of stuff but it works good here too. I never get my face that close to the battery any way. Usually 2 to 3 ft is good. Ray Walters Remote Solar 303 505-8760 On 8/1/18 2:21 PM, Glenn Burt wrote: Interesting idea, but it looks like to service them you would have to lay on your stomach and get your face right in there? Not my idea of a good time! -Glenn FROM: RE-wrenches [3] ON BEHALF OF Ray SENT: Monday, July 30, 2018 3:32 PM TO: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org [4] SUBJECT: Re: [RE-wrenches] Batteries in 4' tall crawl space Article 110.26 covering clearances in front of electrical equipment applies. I worked on a couple like that, and I didn't like it. Very hard to move the batteries, and Combined with H2S, you are in what OSHA considers a confined hazardous space. Another way to use that crawl space is to build a trap door access from the floor above. This can work really nicely, and put the batteries right under the inverter without violating article 110.26. I think I saw a system that either Allan Sindelar or Windy Dankoff did like that. I've tried it a few times, and everyone (customers and inspectors) was happy. Here's a pic of some HUPs in a floor vault just below the inverter: Ray Walters Remote Solar 303 505-8760 On 7/30/18 8:37 AM, Dana wrote: Safe working clearance is 6'-8". I have been confronted with this issue in the past taking over other's systems care. This is a head banger & a major safety issue if something goes bad. If the batteries are 18-20" tall that only leaves anther 28-30" between bottom side of the floor joist ">The installation is bent over back-heavy move situation. I am assuming you have a dirt or gravel floor to move across? It seems like a good use of space up front but the reality of the install plagues you down the road. If it is WLA batteries it is the worst of situations. Even if this is not inspected, please avoid this situation. Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. C - 208.721.7003 Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 NABCEP # 051112-136 www.solarwork.biz [5] "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" P Please consider the environment before printing this email. FROM: RE-wrenches [6] ON BEHALF OF Jerry Caldwell SENT: Saturday, July 28, 2018 6:10 PM TO: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org [7] SUBJECT: [RE-wrenches] Batteries in 4' tall crawl space Wrenches, I have a customer who wants to have batteries installed in a 4' tall crawl space / short basement. Are there any accessibility code issues with installing batteries in a crawl space? Does the NEC address this? Thanks, Jerry Caldwell ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org [8] Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org [9] List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html [10] List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm [11] Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org [12] ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org [13] Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org [14] List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html [15] List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm [16] Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org [17] ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-w
Re: [RE-wrenches] battery temp sensors for older Trace/Xantrex inverters
What color wire? The old Xantrex SW border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%"> Bill the BTS are generally different. You definitely don't want interchange BTS's... If you use a Midnite sensor with an Outback itll appear as a very hot battery and the charger won't charge. There are just differance between the varistor that is potted for most companies. On Sat, Aug 4, 2018, 6:25 PM wrote: Fellow wrenches, Am I missing something? Other than the way the sensor connects to the inverter/CC/??? is this not simply a thermistor/other discrete component with the appropriate output? Yes, it is potted for preservation in the potentially acid vapor environment, and provided with glue when the attachment is other than the terminal and again, the connector is specific to each manufacturer.Thanks for your input, Bill Loesch Solar 1 Saint Louis, MO 314 631 1094 - From: "Chris Schaefer" To: "re-wrenches" Cc: Sent: Saturday August 4 2018 4:04:47PM Subject: [RE-wrenches] battery temp sensors for older Trace/Xantrex inverters Good Day All, Running into a lot of missing or chewed up battery temp sensors for the older Trace inverters. I'm looking for potential replacements. Anyone had any luck using another vendor or do you have a direct replacement source for these? Thanks, Christopher- Chris Schaefer's Tel/Fax 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 5115 South Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424 _www.solarandwindfx.com [3] ~ E-mail: ch...@solarandwindfx.com [4]_ Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said, "democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org [5] Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org [6] List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html [7] List rules ">Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ [10] e-mail offgridso...@sti.net [11] text 209 813 0060 Links: -- [1] mailto:solar1onl...@charter.net [2] http://webmail.sti.net/http:www.solarandwindfx.com [3] http://www.solarandwindfx.com [4] mailto:ch...@solarandwindfx.com [5] mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org [6] http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org [7] http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html [8] http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm [9] http://www.members.re-wrenches.org [10] http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ [11] mailto:offgridso...@sti.net ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] battery temp sensors for older Trace/Xantrex inverters
>From Schneider RESOLUTION: Product Family Xantrex Part Number Conext XW, Conext SW, TR, Truecharge2*, XC chargers*, FSW2000* 808-0232-01 Trace SW, CR*, DR, RV*, C series 130-0004-01-01 Trucharge20+/40+*, Prosine 3.0* 808-0231 RS/MS*, RV/GS series*, FSW3000*, FSW2012*, FSW3012*, Prosine 2.0* 809-0946 FDM 458* / FDM Marine* 76-0022-00 Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ [1] e-mail offgridso...@sti.net [2] text 209 813 0060 On Mon, 6 Aug 2018 14:40:21 +, Lones Tuss wrote: Hello All The Trace Battery Temp sensor has a 100 k negative coefficient. The Outback Battery temp sensor has a 10 K negative coefficient. The Outback temp senor will not work with Trace equipment. FROM: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] ON BEHALF OF Chris Schaefer SENT: Saturday, August 4, 2018 2:05 PM TO: re-wrenches SUBJECT: [RE-wrenches] battery temp sensors for older Trace/Xantrex inverters Good Day All, Running into a lot of missing or chewed up battery temp sensors for the older Trace inverters. I'm looking for potential replacements. Anyone had any luck using another vendor or do you have a direct replacement source for these? Thanks, Christopher- Chris Schaefer's [3] Tel/Fax 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 5115 South Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424 www.solarandwindfx.com [4] ~ E-mail: _ch...@solarandwindfx.com [5]_ __ Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said, "democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." -- Links: -- [1] http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ [2] mailto:offgridso...@sti.net [3] http://www.solarandwindfx.com [4] http://www.solarandwindfx.com [5] mailto:ch...@solarandwindfx.com ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] battery temp sensors for older Trace/Xantrex inverters
I have also seen this problem when tweaking XW and CSW's ENVIRONMENT There is a "Battery Temperature Coefficient" value that is set to -84 and seems can't be changed. My battery bank's datasheet calls for -108 mV/C. When this value is changed, and saved, the message "The value could not be changed" is displayed. CAUSE Customer is using the wrong Battery Type on the XW+'s Charger Settings RESOLUTION The Battery Bank Type should be set for custom (in the custom battery settings), then the Battery Temperature Coefficient will be adjustable. Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ [1] e-mail offgridso...@sti.net [2] text 209 813 0060 On Mon, 6 Aug 2018 14:40:21 +, Lones Tuss wrote: Hello All The Trace Battery Temp sensor has a 100 k negative coefficient. The Outback Battery temp sensor has a 10 K negative coefficient. The Outback temp senor will not work with Trace equipment. FROM: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] ON BEHALF OF Chris Schaefer SENT: Saturday, August 4, 2018 2:05 PM TO: re-wrenches SUBJECT: [RE-wrenches] battery temp sensors for older Trace/Xantrex inverters Good Day All, Running into a lot of missing or chewed up battery temp sensors for the older Trace inverters. I'm looking for potential replacements. Anyone had any luck using another vendor or do you have a direct replacement source for these? Thanks, Christopher- Chris Schaefer's [3] Tel/Fax 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 5115 South Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424 www.solarandwindfx.com [4] ~ E-mail: _ch...@solarandwindfx.com [5]_ __ Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said, "democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." -- Links: -- [1] http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ [2] mailto:offgridso...@sti.net [3] http://www.solarandwindfx.com [4] http://www.solarandwindfx.com [5] mailto:ch...@solarandwindfx.com ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Conext xw+ 6848 inverter 1.5 minute voltage increase
Daniel, No, have not seen this. I would load an SD card into combox and start a logging program to monitor L1 and L2. Since Schneider replaced the inverter control board I am at a loss. Your comments seem logical to me also. What about refrigerator surge? if you still have repair number from Schneider I would see what they say also. Good Luck! Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 On Sat, 11 Aug 2018 16:23:49 -0600, Daniel Duffield wrote: > I am placing this inquiry out to see if anyone else has experienced a > similar experience. > > An electrician friend near Taos, NM, installed a Conext XW+ 6648 inverter > on a large 2nd seasonal (remote stand alone PV supplied) vacation home, > (used less than 10 weeks per year), it has a large 48 VDC AGM battery > (40+kW-Hr) and almost a 7.0 kW PV Array and a back-up LP gen-set. It has a > Xantrex accessories : Com-Box, charge controllers, bat monitor, etc. > The anomaly this system exhibits is that - when the owners are > infrequently present - during each evening, for about 90 seconds - the > 120vac lights get noticebly brighter. After this brief event, the lights > exhibit normal behavior. No lights or appliances are functionally damaged. > It is more of a nuisance than an actual problem. This usually happens > between 9:30 and midnight. The timing seems to be arbitrary - as no known > load either turns on or turns off in conjunction with this event. > Xantrex has been consulted and the inverters firm ware has been upgraded > and they even sent a replacement inverter control board, which after its > replacement nothing changed. > As this is quite late at night and has been happening both in winter and > in summer months, it is not presently believed to be associated with the > PV modules or charge controller. > Conventional wisdom implies, that if there is some significant load was > cycling in the background - the lights would dim - not brighten. I have > never heard of anything like this and was wondering- if any had. There are > no known large capacitive loads on the system. > Any one seen anything similar, I was asked - as I have been doing systems > in New Mexico since 1995 and I guessed it was a well/ water pressure > bladder tank system related issue . . . but the installer has witnessed > this, at night when the water pump and well remained off. ? > > Item 2) some weeks ago, it was noted on this RE-Wrenches thread that some > ballast blocks, 4” x 8” x 16” were starting to suffer decomposition and a > solution was sought, I guessed that this might be due to water seepage and > repeated freezing and thawing. > > Has anyone used an inexpensive masonry sealer painted on the blocks, to > stop water wicking to the concrete ballast blocks? There is very thick > cinder block paint (UGL) for cinder block foundations that would be quite > expensive and polyurethane is very pricey too - I would like to recommend > that works successfully and is economical for existing installations rather > than replacing hundreds of blocks? > > Thanks, > Daniel O. Duffield > NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional (2005) > NM licensed Commercial Electrical Contractor EE98/ER01 > IEEE member 23 years > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org -- Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Conext xw+ 6848 inverter 1.5 minute voltage increase
Good point about the neutral ! Go thru the panel/ light circuits and re-torque. Set up the combox to log L1 and L2. --Dave On Mon, 13 Aug 2018 09:04:37 -0400, Drake wrote: > This problem might be due to a neutral connection > problem in the electrical system. Loose neutral > connections can put 120 V loads in series. It > puts loads on both line 1 an line 2 in series for > 240 V. The high resistance load (the one with the low draw) gets high > voltage. > > > At 06:23 PM 8/11/2018, you wrote: >>I am placing this inquiry out to see if anyone >>else has experienced a similar experience. An >>electrician friend near Taos, NM, installed a >>Conext XW+ 6648 inverter on a large 2nd seasonal >>(remote stand alone PV supplied) vacation home, >>(used less than 10 weeks per year), it has a >>large 48 VDC AGM battery (40+kW-Hr) and almost a >>7.0 kW PV Array and a back-up LP gen-set. It has >>a Xantrex accessories : Com-Box, charge >>controllers, bat monitor, etc. The anomaly this >>system exhibits is that - when the owners are >>infrequently present - during each evening, for >>about 90 seconds - the 120vac lights get >>noticebly brighter. After this brief event, the >>lights exhibit normal behavior. No lights or >>appliances are functionally damaged. It is more >>of a nuisance than an actual problem. This >>usually happens between 9:30 and midnight. The >>timing seems to be arbitrary - as no known load >>either turns on or turns off in conjunction with >>this event. Xantrex has been consulted and the >>inverters firm ware has been upgraded and they >>even sent a replacement inverter control board, >>which after its replacement nothing changed. As >>this is quite late at night and has been >>happening both in winter and in summer months, >>it is not presently believed to be associated >>with the PV modules or charge controller. >>Conventional wisdom implies, that if there is >>some significant load was cycling in the >>background - the lights would dim - not >>brighten. I have never heard of anything like >>this and was wondering- if any had. There are no >>known large capacitive loads on the system. Any >>one seen anything similar, I was asked - as I >>have been doing systems in New Mexico since 1995 >>and I guessed it was a well/ water pressure >>bladder tank system related issue . . . but >>the installer has witnessed this, at night when >>the water pump and well remained off. ? Item >>2) some weeks ago, it was noted on this >>RE-Wrenches thread that some ballast blocks, >>4†x 8†x 16†were starting to suffer >>decomposition and a solution was sought, I >>guessed that this might be due to water seepage >>and repeated freezing and thawing. Has anyone >>used an inexpensive masonry sealer painted on >>the blocks, to stop water wicking to the >>concrete ballast blocks? There is very thick >>cinder block paint (UGL) for cinder block >>foundations that would be quite expensive and >>polyurethane is very pricey too - I would like >>to recommend that works successfully and is >>economical for existing installations rather >>than replacing hundreds of blocks? Thanks, >>Daniel O. Duffield NABCEP Certified PV >>Installation Professional (2005) NM licensed >>Commercial Electrical Contractor EE98/ER01 IEEE >>member 23 years >>___ >>List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: >>RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change >>listserver email address & settings: >>http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>List-Archive: >>http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html >> >>List rules & etiquette: >>www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or >>update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback FM100
I think you would make a huge mistake to not use an all Outback or Schneider system! No mixing because the web portals are excellent from a monitoring sense. Much of my income is from monitoring so as they say, I'm a fan! Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 Dave Howie MichaelsonDave > I am changing out an off-grid AC coupled SMA SB3000TL inverter tied to a > dual stack VFX3648 system with a Mate (original - not Mate3) and an FNDC, > making into a DC coupled array. It was set up as AC coupled originally > because of the distance the array was from the system (about 500 feet) and > high voltagecharge controllers were not available at the time. Now that > there are several options, we want to change it because the charging setup > is less than adequate. My first choice is to use an Outback FM100, only > because it keeps all the equipment tied together, although I'm not a big > fan of Outback these days. What are folks experience with the FM100? And > apparently it needs a Mate3 (not the Mate) in order to program and read > it, > true? Otherwise I will probably go with either a Midnite 250 SL or a > Schneider XW80-600. > TIA, > Howie Michaelson > Sun Catcher > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] SOC, FNDC, and LFP batteries
Just another reason that Soc needs to originate from the BMS in an OEM battery system. It needs to get into the Schneider and Outback web portals for monitoring. Is there anyone building an Offgrid battery besides Discover AES that does this? I don't think so. On Sat, 18 Aug 2018 09:24:09 -0400, Tump wrote: Yep its is terrible! Spoke w/ a former member of their (OB)'s tech support and was told that the counting of amp hours both up border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%"> On Aug 17, 2018, at 3:09 PM, Lou Russo wrote: Hello All, Does anybody have any insight in getting the SOC to report accurately on the Outback FNDC when using batteries that have a minimal voltage curve? I have several systems with LFP batteries that have both a eGauge (communicating directly with the battery BMU) and a FNDC and I get wildly different SOCs. In a typical 24 hour period (12am-12am) I get SOCs on the FNDC that vary 2% to 34% of what the battery BMUs are reporting. I am assuming that the BMUs are reporting accurately. I would think a 1%-5% difference would be acceptable. Any help or thoughts on this subject would be greatly appreciated. Aloha, Lou Russo l...@spreesolarsystems.com [2] 808 345 6762 Spree Solar Systems LLC CT-34322 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org [3] Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org [4] List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%"> WWW.SWNL.NET [5] Solarwinds Northernlights _ _ _ SERVING MID COAST MAINE "> _ 207-832-7574 CL. 610-517-8401 _ _ __BLAIR "TUMP" MAY_ MAINE'S CHARTER _ __ NABCEP "CERTIFIED PV INSTALLER"_ MAINE'S CHARTER _ TRACE XANTREX "CERTIFIED" DEALER / INSTALLER"_ -- Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ [6] e-mail offgridso...@sti.net [7] text 209 813 0060 Links: -- [1] mailto:l...@spreesolarsystems.com [2] mailto:l...@spreesolarsystems.com [3] mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org [4] http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org [5] http://webmail.sti.net/blocked::http://www.swnl.net/%22%20%5Co%20%22blocked::http://www.swnl.net/ [6] http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ [7] mailto:offgridso...@sti.net ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] SOC, FNDC, and LFP batteries
I think if the user wants to find the answer, he is going to have to hire someone who can read the CANBUS data out of the LG. It is very accurate from what I have seen for 2 years now in testing for Schneider. Here is a screen shot from a Raspberry monitoring the LG RESU and supplying the keep alive signal the LG needs. Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ [1] e-mail offgridso...@sti.net [2] text 209 813 0060 On Sat, 18 Aug 2018 12:57:38 -0700, Jay wrote:Interesting thread as I was just in contact with someone with a LGchem coupled to a solar edge inverter. He's seeing at times 20-25% less capacity than rated kWh and pretty much never actual capacity. Tech support gives some wishy washy answers as to why this would be. Where is the difference, is it in the communication between units or the BMS? And funny as he's never seeing more capacity.Maybe there are some inaccuracies in the BMS's?Standard OB, trimetric and midnight wiz bang meters all require frequent meeting of charge parameters ( volt/amps) to keep the devices accurate. I've got 4 meters that I compare and if they are full daily it's about 1-2% difference between them. If it's been 7-10 days since full, then they could be off by 10-15%+ off.Curious what others are seeing Jay Peltz power. On Aug 18, 2018, at 9:40 AM, Jerry Shafer wrote: Lou Sounds like you are having the same issue we did, l adjusted the size of the battery down to 50% of the battery rating and so far the values appear to follow in. We will also be installing a DC CT on the egauge to see and have a better idea of whats going and out outside of the BMU Jerry On Fri, Aug 17, 2018, 12:09 PM Lou Russo wrote: Hello All, Does anybody have any insight in getting the SOC to report accurately on the Outback FNDC when using batteries that have a minimal voltage curve? I have several systems with LFP batteries that have both a eGauge (communicating directly with the battery BMU) and a FNDC and I get wildly different SOCs. In a typical 24 hour period (12am-12am) I get SOCs on the FNDC that vary 2% to 34% of what the battery BMUs are reporting. I am assuming that the BMUs are reporting accurately. I would think a 1%-5% difference would be acceptable. Any help or thoughts on this subject would be greatly appreciated. Aloha, Lou Russo l...@spreesolarsystems.com [5] 808 345 6762 Spree Solar Systems LLC CT-34322 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org [6] Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org [7] List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html [8] List rules border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%"> ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org [11] Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org [12] List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html [13] List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm [14] Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org [15] -- Links: -- [1] http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ [2] mailto:offgridso...@sti.net [3] mailto:jerrysgarag...@gmail.com [4] mailto:l...@spreesolarsystems.com [5] mailto:l...@spreesolarsystems.com [6] mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org [7] http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org [8] http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html [9] http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm [10] http://www.members.re-wrenches.org [11] mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org [12] http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org [13] http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html [14] http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm [15] http://www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] SOC and LFP batteries and TriMetric
In my opinion Blue Ion should help with this. When I was considering becoming a dealer they said they were going to get their Soc and temp data out to Outback and Schneider web portals. For me they never wanted to get their product out to major suppliers and I refused to deal with sales tax so we parted company. Ask them for the parameters to program. In the Schneider monitor there are 5+ parameters and with any monitor you have to install a shunt which is already in the Blue Ion. It is a great product but they have work to do, in my opinion. Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ [1] e-mail offgridso...@sti.net [2] text 209 813 0060 On Tue, 21 Aug 2018 10:55:03 -0600, Sindelar Solar wrote: Wrenches, I would like to broaden this topic a bit, please: we're currently installing our first Blue Ion LFP set (48kWh). I work almost exclusively with existing off grid systems, often older systems most of which have TriMetric monitors, either the TM2020 or newer TM2030. Has anyone successfully reprogrammed a TriMet to accurately register SOC and other data with LFP batteries? If so can you provide some guidance as to program settings? Thank you, Allan On 8/20/2018 6:15 PM, Lou Russo wrote: Jay, The batteries are Blue Ion 2.0 from Blue Planet Energy, the 8kWh cabinet. The listed Maximum Continuous Charge and Maximum Discharge Rate is 1C. Aloha, Lou Russo On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 6:27 AM Jay wrote: Hi Lou, Can you tell us which LFP batteries? And what rates of discharge/charge? Jay Peltz power. On Aug 17, 2018, at 12:09 PM, Lou Russo wrote: Hello All, Does anybody have any insight in getting the SOC to report accurately on the Outback FNDC when using batteries that have a minimal voltage curve? I have several systems with LFP batteries that have both a eGauge (communicating directly with the battery BMU) and a FNDC and I get wildly different SOCs. In a typical 24 hour period (12am-12am) I get SOCs on the FNDC that vary 2% to 34% of what the battery BMUs are reporting. I am assuming that the BMUs are reporting accurately. I would think a 1%-5% difference would be acceptable. Any help or thoughts on this subject would be greatly appreciated. Aloha, Lou Russo-- ALLAN SINDELAR al...@sindelarsolar.com [5] NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc. 505 780-2738 CELL -- Links: -- [1] http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ [2] mailto:offgridso...@sti.net [3] mailto:jay.pe...@gmail.com [4] mailto:l...@spreesolarsystems.com [5] mailto:al...@sindelarsolar.com ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] DC-DC converter for SQFlex
The customer needs education! The SQ should be powered from 240vac and the CU can run a generator input if needed. AC power should be designed so that it never goes away offgrid in my opinion. There should be a water tank that can give time to make repairs. Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ [1] e-mail offgridso...@sti.net [2] text 209 813 0060 Links: -- [1] http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ [2] mailto:offgridso...@sti.net ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Forced air Furnace
Drake, look at home depot for the Empire brand of small wall furnaces. They use zero power (old style thermo like a water heater) and can be legal as primary source of heat for building code. They vent out a wall and are very easy. Many of my clients use them to get legal and then use wood heating. Good luck! Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ [1] e-mail offgridso...@sti.net [2] text 209 813 0060 On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 16:36:45 -0400, Drake wrote: Hello Wrenches, What is the best choice for a propane, forced air furnace for an off grid house? We would prefer one that doesn't have a phantom load, although the transformer for the thermostat may not be avoidable. Low blower current would be preferable. The furnace AC will be powered by a Magnum 4448 PAE. Thank you, Drake Drake Chamberlin Athens Electric LLC OH License 44810 CO License 3773 NABCEP Certified Solar PV 740-448-7328 http://athens-electric.com/ [3] -- Links: -- [1] http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ [2] mailto:offgridso...@sti.net [3] http://athens-electric.com/ ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Forced air Furnace
I think one can find fault with anything. One thing about Empire is that is does not require AC and frankly most people want heat offgrid from many sources. Just a way to get legal for a certificate of occupancy and it was what the OP was looking for. The blend of a wood stove, mini-split heat pump, and a propane heater are probably as offgrid as it gets these days. We love quiet also and have for 26 years here. Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ [1] e-mail offgridso...@sti.net [2] text 209 813 0060 On Thu, 30 Aug 2018 07:02:38 -0400, Tump wrote: One thing that has yet to be mentioned is that the Empire heaters in any home are noisy. The pilot stays on all the time and most of my off grid homes quiet is what folks enjoy the most. Inverters/ gen in the power shed, Blomburg fridges @1.9RA (chill plate) and the we have installed the Rinnai heaters both K1 border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%"> On Aug 29, 2018, at 8:47 AM, Drake wrote: That sounds like the ticket! At 11:32 AM 8/28/2018, you wrote: Drake, look at home depot for the Empire brand of small wall furnaces. They use zero power (old style thermo like a water heater) and can be legal as primary source of heat for building code. They vent out a wall and are very easy. Many of my clients use them to get legal and then use wood heating. Good luck! Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net [4] text 209 813 0060 On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 16:36:45 -0400, Drake wrote: Hello Wrenches, What is the best choice for a propane, forced air furnace for an off grid house? We would prefer one that doesn't have a phantom load, although the transformer for the thermostat may not be avoidable. Low blower current would be preferable. The furnace AC will be powered by a Magnum 4448 PAE. Thank you, Drake Drake ChamberlinAthens Electric LLCOH License 44810CO License 3773NABCEP Certified Solar PV 740-448-7328http://athens-electric.com/ [6] -- ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org [7] Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org [8] List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html [9] List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm [10] Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org [11] ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org [12] Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org [13] List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%"> WWW.SWNL.NET [14] Solarwinds Northernlights _ _ _ SERVING MID COAST MAINE "> _ 207-832-7574 CL. 610-517-8401 _ _ __BLAIR "TUMP" MAY_ MAINE'S CHARTER _ __ NABCEP "CERTIFIED PV INSTALLER"_ MAINE'S CHARTER _ TRACE XANTREX "CERTIFIED" DEALER / INSTALLER"_ -- Links: -- [1] http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ [2] mailto:offgridso...@sti.net [3] mailto:drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org [4] mailto:offgridso...@sti.net [5] mailto:drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org [6] http://athens-electric.com/ [7] mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org [8] http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org [9] http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html [10] http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm [11] http://www.members.re-wrenches.org/ [12] mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org [13] http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org [14] http://webmail.sti.net/blocked::http://www.swnl.net/%22%20%5Co%20%22blocked::http://www.swnl.net/ ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Trackers
I have been waiting for a small 6" pole tracker like the AZ125 that array tek made. I could get 2KW on it. They only make the 8" (too much work) and HZLA that I use quite a bit. --Dave On Wed, 5 Sep 2018 14:41:19 -0600, wrote: Dear people: What trackers are y'all using nowadays? I have a customer (with a great site) who's insisting on a pair. We've sold Zomeworks and Array Technologies in the past, but I know there are more offerings now. Thanks for the input! Chris Daum Oasis Montana Inc. 406-777-4309 or 4321 406-777-4309 fax www.oasismontana.com [1] -- Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ [2] e-mail offgridso...@sti.net [3] text 209 813 0060 Links: -- [1] http://www.oasismontana.com [2] http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ [3] mailto:offgridso...@sti.net ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Trackers
Bill, If you lived offgrid and had to run a heatpump for cooling in the desert, you would see that either virtual tracking ar a tracker would give you the long hours of solar power to minimize battery use. Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ [1] e-mail offgridso...@sti.net [2] text 209 813 0060 On Wed, 05 Sep 2018 18:53:54 -0500, solar1onl...@charter.net wrote: Chris, I thought since solar PV prices have come down (understatement), is it not more cost effective to buy more modules than a tracker? Are there scenarios that the above would not ring true? (As I remember, off grid water pumping for livestock ponds may still be an exception as also, limited space.) Please advise. Thanks, Bill Loesch Solar 1 - Saint Louis Solar 314 631 1094 - From: ch...@oasismontana.com To: "RE-wrenches" Cc: Sent: Wednesday September 5 2018 3:45:25PM Subject: [RE-wrenches] Trackers Dear people: What trackers are y'all using nowadays? I have a customer (with a great site) who's insisting on a pair. We've sold Zomeworks and Array Technologies in the past, but I know there are more offerings now. Thanks for the input! Chris Daum Oasis Montana Inc. 406-777-4309 or 4321 406-777-4309 fax www.oasismontana.com [3] -- Links: -- [1] http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ [2] mailto:offgridso...@sti.net [3] http://www.oasismontana.com ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
